LunarSol wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
Puppets immediately bring to my mind humanoid robot troops. Maybe the Nomad equivalent to Aleph's Tacbots. With the new Nomad aesthetics, that has the potential to be something really cool. Since Tunguska is supposed to basically be the tech wing of the Nomads, I can definitely see them having more robot units.

That or some kind of human that's been hacked and basically been turned into a slave.

That's called "Sepsitorized" and is a Combined Army thing. See "Voodoo Tech".

The expansion box is pretty disappointing on the Nomad side. Is the third one just a Hellcat with a Combi? So you've got one fairly useless profile that you get in a starter box and ignore

It's a Spitfire. I've posted the breakdown a few times now from Golden Distribution where it says that.

and another model that's pretty new and not really in need of a resculpt.

Blame the fact that they screwed the pooch, royally, with CJC when they switched from hand to CAD sculpts.

I'm super excited for Tunguska in general, but that guy's carrying around a lot of baggage in his box.

Not as much as a Chasseur or Uhlan are.

These are meant to be vanilla expansions. Tunguska isn't for awhile yet so of course we don't get a sectorial box.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I'm pretty new to the details of the universe, but a Spitfire Hellcat is way more compelling. Still probably won't dive in to the expansion until I'm looking to branch out of Corregidor, but I'm definitely happier picking it up when only one of the models is an unnecessary resculpt.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Must say I'm disappointed with the intruder


What was wrong with the older one? It's still new by my standards...

Spoiler:

Was it really necessary to ruin their classic lightbulb head look to make it very clear they have x-visor?

Spoiler:

A hacker Intruder sculpt would be more useful.
Or another Grenzer.
Or a boarding shotty Prowler.
I'm just spitballing for similar profiles here...

It really makes no sense now that I think about it... giving nomads another MSR unit with MSV to expand on Icestorm makes no sense at all.
They already got the Grenzer.
It should have been a hacker. They're nomads for pete's sake.

A new zero would have been awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Cool, thanks for the clarification. I'm pretty new to the details of the universe, but a Spitfire Hellcat is way more compelling. Still probably won't dive in to the expansion until I'm looking to branch out of Corregidor, but I'm definitely happier picking it up when only one of the models is an unnecessary resculpt.

These are some good units you will want for CJC. Hellcats are a must have & this is the first time Spitfire is available.
The current hellcats came out right before N3, back when AD units usually wanted HMGs instead of spitfires.

Nomads can be daunting to collect. Many profiles you will need are only sold in blisters.
With The nomad starter, this Beyond expansion & the CJC starter, you should have more than enough to get a feel for how they work in game.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Must say I'm disappointed with the intruder


What was wrong with the older one? It's still new by my standards...

Spoiler:

Was it really necessary to ruin their classic lightbulb head look to make it very clear they have x-visor?

Spoiler:

A hacker Intruder sculpt would be more useful.
Or another Grenzer.
Or a boarding shotty Prowler.
I'm just spitballing for similar profiles here...

I would guess that the new intruder is because while the old one is still pretty new he was also sculpted for a different scale game at 28mm rather than a 32mm-38mm scale depending on CB's mood.

All the original CJC models suffer the same to an extent but that really was the stand out example. If you run the CJC starter you can explain it away as them using child soldiers but the intruder could not even pass for that. If you look at the new Intruder one of her boobs is bigger than the old guys head and probably his waist.

Besides CB's official party line was "there were no scale issues in the city" which was pretty hard to take seriously with that Intruder as evidence and we know some members of CB hate dissent or being told there wrong so now there is one less stick to beat them with.

I am sorry, but there was never a "there were no scale issues in the city" party line, as far back as I remember CB discussed that there were different height (and one could say scale) issues with the many freelance sculptors they used and that they wanted to eliminate it, but could not because of traditional sculpting.

This became a reality with digital sculpting that keeps the models the same (with a few notable exceptions like Kaauri) this does not mean that models sculpted before the change and digital standardisation would not be released, these were sculpted and was a substantial investment to not be released, some models were caught in the change and the change is needed.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am sorry, but there was never a "there were no scale issues in the city" party line, as far back as I remember CB discussed that there were different height (and one could say scale) issues with the many freelance sculptors they used and that they wanted to eliminate it, but could not because of traditional sculpting.

This became a reality with digital sculpting that keeps the models the same (with a few notable exceptions like Kaauri) this does not mean that models sculpted before the change and digital standardisation would not be released, these were sculpted and was a substantial investment to not be released, some models were caught in the change and the change is needed.

Actually, he's right. There was a very real "There are no scale issues" stance being taken regarding Corregidor's revamp.

But you know this.

Are the Ice Storm/Red Veil expansions just the models, or will there be additional scenarios and terrain? The thing the original boxes did really well was introduce players to Infinity, but there's still a fairly wide gulf between the rules introduced and a full game. Red Veil improved on Ice Storm in a few ways (more that one silhouette, more than just combi rifles, more varied terrain), but I think an expansion box is the perfect place to move newer players closer to a full game experience, one mission at a time. Also, I'd love more, unique terrain in the Mototronica style.

SeanDrake wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
Must say I'm disappointed with the intruder


What was wrong with the older one? It's still new by my standards...

Spoiler:

Was it really necessary to ruin their classic lightbulb head look to make it very clear they have x-visor?

Spoiler:

A hacker Intruder sculpt would be more useful.
Or another Grenzer.
Or a boarding shotty Prowler.
I'm just spitballing for similar profiles here...

I would guess that the new intruder is because while the old one is still pretty new he was also sculpted for a different scale game at 28mm rather than a 32mm-38mm scale depending on CB's mood.

All the original CJC models suffer the same to an extent but that really was the stand out example. If you run the CJC starter you can explain it away as them using child soldiers but the intruder could not even pass for that. If you look at the new Intruder one of her boobs is bigger than the old guys head and probably his waist.

Besides CB's official party line was "there were no scale issues in the city" which was pretty hard to take seriously with that Intruder as evidence and we know some members of CB hate dissent or being told there wrong so now there is one less stick to beat them with.

I hear you guys with the scale issues. It really doesn't bother me much as long as the model is good.

I would like some new Keisotsu and Karakuri etc to correct their shrimpy size.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Are the Ice Storm/Red Veil expansions just the models, or will there be additional scenarios and terrain? The thing the original boxes did really well was introduce players to Infinity, but there's still a fairly wide gulf between the rules introduced and a full game. Red Veil improved on Ice Storm in a few ways (more that one silhouette, more than just combi rifles, more varied terrain), but I think an expansion box is the perfect place to move newer players closer to a full game experience, one mission at a time. Also, I'd love more, unique terrain in the Mototronica style.

Supposedly there's missions. Don't know for sure.

It's also worth mentioning that Icestorm has the ORC and Mobile Brigada mislabeled weapon-wise. Both are packing MULTI Rifles rather than Combis.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Actually, he's right. There was a very real "There are no scale issues" stance being taken regarding Corregidor's revamp.

But you know this.

Please by all means refresh my memory.

From what I recall it was "it is what it is, it cannot be changed right now"

I'm not engaging you on this. You're wrong, you know it. Carry water for them if you want.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am sorry, but there was never a "there were no scale issues in the city" party line, as far back as I remember CB discussed that there were different height (and one could say scale) issues with the many freelance sculptors they used and that they wanted to eliminate it, but could not because of traditional sculpting.

This became a reality with digital sculpting that keeps the models the same (with a few notable exceptions like Kaauri) this does not mean that models sculpted before the change and digital standardisation would not be released, these were sculpted and was a substantial investment to not be released, some models were caught in the change and the change is needed.

Their sizing issues seem even worse with digital sculpting. I was very disappointed to get two different sizes of models in the same Zhanshi support box. It makes conversions more difficult, and is utterly baffling that these would get through quality control.

And no, I don't buy the "people are different sizes" argument. Guns, belt buckles, ammo pouches and magazines are not tailor made to suit the size of the soldier, even in the future. That's just lazy.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm not engaging you on this. You're wrong, you know it. Carry water for them if you want.

I will carry water for whoever I find worthy, though on this, you cannot cal me wrong, whenever you have been asked for evidence backing what you say you fall on this defence, beyond me who know you are wrong because I know some of the back stage, you pass wrong to most people because the only reason you give for backing the stuff you say is because they have to "trust you"

Look I understand your disappointment CJC was caught on the move from realistic proportions traditional sculpting to a much more artistic scale with proportional weapons to the body and digital sculpting, but it was a move that had to be done and the game and company is better because of it, yes it means there are several old models still in circulation, but redoing everything was not realistic back then, is not now change takes time.

Mastiff wrote:
Their sizing issues seem even worse with digital sculpting. I was very disappointed to get two different sizes of models in the same Zhanshi support box. It makes conversions more difficult, and is utterly baffling that these would get through quality control.

And no, I don't buy the "people are different sizes" argument. Guns, belt buckles, ammo pouches and magazines are not tailor made to suit the size of the soldier, even in the future. That's just lazy.

You actually made me unpack my Zhanshi to check, they are the same height and most proportions measure the same, but indeed one of the body feels bigger than the other, weirdly they have the same height, I can theorise that maybe it was done so they have the same height despite their posture? the "new" design (well new as from icestorm onward) is more artistic than realistic, that is why female models have smaller weapons than male and kneeling models are bigger than what they should be standing, in order to maintain the silhouette they must have.

That Kriza Borac....
Kriza Boracs confirmed, and now we know we are getting a Tunguska Sectorial!
Now we just need the Hollow Men, a Grenzer box and a resculpt of the Szally.... And a few other units of course. Including Securitatie. A full resculpt AND a rewrite for them.
I am really excited.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

You actually made me unpack my Zhanshi to check, they are the same height and most proportions measure the same, but indeed one of the body feels bigger than the other, weirdly they have the same height, I can theorise that maybe it was done so they have the same height despite their posture? the "new" design (well new as from icestorm onward) is more artistic than realistic, that is why female models have smaller weapons than male and kneeling models are bigger than what they should be standing, in order to maintain the silhouette they must have.

No.



Just no.

Well I have them in-front of me glued to their base and assembled and they look the same height, they should not be given how big the one body looks to be but they are.

So? nothing changes on what I said.

Were I a moderator (not from Bakunin) I would tell you guys to knock it off, and take the scale chatter to the appropriate thread.

Now the rumors about Hollow Men, Puppets and Naval Zonds... Those are worthy of a News and Rumors thread. I have not heard anything about them. Or the demise of the 4th Nomad sectorial-- the Black Hand.

Any word on additional material in the expansion boxes? Scenarios, background... or do we wait until Monday for that?

Yikes - that's quite jarring!

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm not engaging you on this. You're wrong, you know it. Carry water for them if you want.

I will carry water for whoever I find worthy, though on this, you cannot cal me wrong, whenever you have been asked for evidence backing what you say you fall on this defence, beyond me who know you are wrong because I know some of the back stage, you pass wrong to most people because the only reason you give for backing the stuff you say is because they have to "trust you"

Seeing as how that's the exact evidence that you and the other "insiders" keep giving(your timelines are all subject to hearsay, rather than having actual fact or records)...the hypocrisy is staggering.

Look I understand your disappointment CJC was caught on the move from realistic proportions traditional sculpting to a much more artistic scale with proportional weapons to the body and digital sculpting, but it was a move that had to be done and the game and company is better because of it, yes it means there are several old models still in circulation, but redoing everything was not realistic back then, is not now change takes time.

Then they shouldn't have bothered advertising Corregidor as the revamp of a range, intended to be "the first cohesive range". Because whether you remember it or not, that is how it was billed to people who asked about it.

A lot of us immediately smelled something hinky when it was a small set of releases, then it dried up long before Icestorm and N3 were ever publicly announced.

At this point, I've written off Corregidor. I'd sell the stuff but there's not really a market locally for them.

Mastiff wrote:And no, I don't buy the "people are different sizes" argument.

Uh, they are, though?

I'm not sure what it is you're objecting to or what part of the argument you don't "buy". Reality?

Mastiff wrote:Guns, belt buckles, ammo pouches and magazines are not tailor made to suit the size of the soldier, even in the future. That's just lazy.

Well, first of all I think the obvious question is how do you know how things work in the future? You been there, I take it?

Second, the vast majority of people on Earth now don't wear clothes that were tailor-made for them, and somehow still find stuff that suits their size. Not everything fits perfectly for everyone, but people manage. Kinda have to since having everything tailored would get expensive (celebrities might be able to afford it, but I sure as feth can't).

Right now I'm looking at an ACU size chart and it seems US Army uniforms come in sizes ranging from X-Small to XX-Large, and for each size you get several options for length, too. Uniforms aren't "tailored" for soldiers, but it seems to me that at least the US military has realized that "one size fits all" doesn't really work and has different sizes to accommodate different bodies. The difference in the models you presented could be as small as one soldier wearing Medium or Large and another wearing XXL. Belts and straps are obviously adjustable and I imagine, just like the ACU, probably come in different sizes because you can't have soldiers running around with a gun in one hand and the other holding up their own pants. As far as guns and holsters go, I don't really notice much of a difference in the holsters on the models you presented, and if they are different sizes then it isn't by much, and I guess I'll have to take your word for it on the guns not all matching since they aren't pictured. But no, obviously guns in real life aren't tailored for specific people and come in a standard size, at least as far as I know, so that's the one point I'd give you.

Now, if someone here has served in the military and can use their personal experience to confirm that every soldier gets the exact same uniform in the exact same size, including the same size boots, belts, etc., then I'll concede the point. But to me personally that doesn't sound at all realistic, and from my extremely brief research of the matter doesn't seem to be how a real world military operates, and I see no reason why a future space military would be any less capable of providing their soldiers with uniforms that fit. The models shown seem perfectly believable to me, and I wouldn't be too fussed over them or think something was "off"...one guy's just really tall or the other is really short. It happens. Unless Infinity fluff has it set up that everyone in the future is cloned from the same few people and has the same exact height and build so that the military could save money by only making one standard uniform that fits literally everyone, which for all I know could be how it is and in that case you'd probably be right, but I doubt it.

Personally, with the game being set in the future and things in the Infinity universe being so much different from ours, I don't find it much of a stretch to believe that they might have started manufacturing weapons in different sizes, either. I can't think of many reasons to justify that, other than smaller, lighter weapons being easier to use for some people than the ones that are so big and chunky they look like they'd be impossible to wield for anything but a superhuman, but in any case it's not something that personally bothers me. I can see the issue people would have if they intend to do conversions or whatever, but then again I'd argue the fact that you're working with metal models is probably enough of an issue by itself.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Mastiff wrote:And no, I don't buy the "people are different sizes" argument.

Uh, they are, though?

I'm not sure what it is you're objecting to or what part of the argument you don't "buy". Reality?

So, you want to argue that this is a case of standard variations in human form?

Because that's the scale leap that happened initially.

The Wildcat(in brown) is a Medium Infantry model wearing a combat suit with armor plating on the shoulders, torso, and legs.
The Alguacile(bare metal) is a guy wearing a jumpsuit with a kevlar vest equivalent.

That's not just bad from the perspective of anyone who's versed as to what each unit is supposed to be. That's just careless. It shows that when they decided to do CAD work(which was long before people like PsychoticStorm claims. No, I'm not going to back that up with screenshots or whatever. It happened. Deal.) nobody thought to check what each side was doing.
It's not unlike Mantic's Elves, models who are clad in head to toe armor, being less bulky than their Skeletons and Ghouls--which were initially supposed to be raised from slain Elves!

Spoiler:

Mastiff wrote:Guns, belt buckles, ammo pouches and magazines are not tailor made to suit the size of the soldier, even in the future. That's just lazy.

Well, first of all I think the obvious question is how do you know how things work in the future? You been there, I take it?

Second, the vast majority of people on Earth now don't wear clothes that were tailor-made for them, and somehow still find stuff that suits their size. Not everything fits perfectly for everyone, but people manage. Kinda have to since having everything tailored would get expensive (celebrities might be able to afford it, but I sure as feth can't).

Right now I'm looking at an ACU size chart and it seems US Army uniforms come in sizes ranging from X-Small to XX-Large, and for each size you get several options for length, too. Uniforms aren't "tailored" for soldiers, but it seems to me that at least the US military has realized that "one size fits all" doesn't really work and has different sizes to accommodate different bodies. The difference in the models you presented could be as small as one soldier wearing Medium or Large and another wearing XXL. Belts and straps are obviously adjustable and I imagine, just like the ACU, probably come in different sizes because you can't have soldiers running around with a gun in one hand and the other holding up their own pants. As far as guns and holsters go, I don't really notice much of a difference in the holsters on the models you presented, and if they are different sizes then it isn't by much, and I guess I'll have to take your word for it on the guns not all matching since they aren't pictured. But no, obviously guns in real life aren't tailored for specific people and come in a standard size, at least as far as I know, so that's the one point I'd give you.

Now, if someone here has served in the military and can use their personal experience to confirm that every soldier gets the exact same uniform in the exact same size, including the same size boots, belts, etc., then I'll concede the point. But to me personally that doesn't sound at all realistic, and from my extremely brief research of the matter doesn't seem to be how a real world military operates, and I see no reason why a future space military would be any less capable of providing their soldiers with uniforms that fit. The models shown seem perfectly believable to me, and I wouldn't be too fussed over them or think something was "off"...one guy's just really tall or the other is really short. It happens. Unless Infinity fluff has it set up that everyone in the future is cloned from the same few people and has the same exact height and build so that the military could save money by only making one standard uniform that fits literally everyone, which for all I know could be how it is and in that case you'd probably be right, but I doubt it.

Personally, with the game being set in the future and things in the Infinity universe being so much different from ours, I don't find it much of a stretch to believe that they might have started manufacturing weapons in different sizes, either. I can't think of many reasons to justify that, other than smaller, lighter weapons being easier to use for some people than the ones that are so big and chunky they look like they'd be impossible to wield for anything but a superhuman, but in any case it's not something that personally bothers me. I can see the issue people would have if they intend to do conversions or whatever, but then again I'd argue the fact that you're working with metal models is probably enough of an issue by itself.

Corvus Belli has actually stated that they resize gear for female models versus male models because "girls look better with smaller gear than big gear". It lets them do the sillier poses they like doing with females without them having to work around the gear.

And I'd posit that what you're missing in your rush to counter Mastiff's point is that while males might be bigger than females, this is a sadly common thing with Infinity:


It's not a case of "one guy's just really tall"(most of the male and female figures are basically the same height/bulk, with the exception of character models, they just are given slightly different poses that make it harder to tell right off the bat that it's the same figures reused). It's a case of things being randomly redone just so that females can look different to males.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Well I have them in-front of me glued to their base and assembled and they look the same height, they should not be given how big the one body looks to be but they are.

So? nothing changes on what I said.

You said Digital sculpting was to fix the scale issues, and that right there is called smoking gun evidence that says otherwise. Someone posts a picture and you just say 'no, nuh uh, I'm right' is pretty hilarious. More? How about the Jannisarys. Which changed not only hight but proportions in a 6 month gap between the digitally sculpted HMG and the box. Yes, it's a pretty huge difference and the reason I'm sure Shae Konnit has sold so many ML Jannisarys for the popular conversion.

That scale comparison is indeed more damning than the previous one, yeah. But the original comparison Mastiff posted didn't look so bad to me.

 Sidstyler wrote:

As far as guns and holsters go, I don't really notice much of a difference in the holsters on the models you presented, and if they are different sizes then it isn't by much, and I guess I'll have to take your word for it on the guns not all matching since they aren't pictured. But no, obviously guns in real life aren't tailored for specific people and come in a standard size, at least as far as I know, so that's the one point I'd give you.

That's the only relevant point.

Yes, the pistols, holsters and clips are different sizes. I pointed that out earlier. Blowing up a model 10% in the sculpting program and printing it out, is not sizing up to accommodate for taller human beings. Unless you're going to argue that clips are custom printed, along with ammo. I can just see a trip to the quartermaster; "We're under attack! Gimme 5 clips of AP!! What's this? Do I look 5'3" to you? Gimme the ammo for a 6'2 male!"

You can make up whatever stories you like. Maybe in the future, humanity will grow massive hands and stumpy legs and the Imperial Guardsmen models from the eighties were actually very accurate. But please don't pretend that I'm just too obtuse to recognize when a model has simply been resized.




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 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Well I have them in-front of me glued to their base and assembled and they look the same height, they should not be given how big the one body looks to be but they are.

So? nothing changes on what I said.

I'm afraid it'll be hard to take your opinion seriously from this point on.

@ -Loki-

I did and indeed it has, despite the few rare oddities one can present (and they are few and far between) the line is more or less unified and coherent as far as height goes, I am not sure how old is the Janissary HMG digital sculpt, the "gap between releases" means nothing since the sculpts between releases can be sculpted at entirely different times, if one wants to make an example they should use the Kaauri in my opinion.

@ Mastiff
You are not require to take my opinion seriously, fact is the assembled models are the same height that means the models are they are posed are the same height, not that if they were posed standing they would be the same height.

As far as weapons equipment ectr as I said before, it is the art direction, each sculpt is made to make sense and be aesthetically proportioned with itself and like it or not it is what people want, what you ask is the ultra realistic direction Infinity had during the military orders release time, indeed everything was realistically proportioned and all equipment and weapons was in scale with each other, it is also the most heavily criticised direction Infinity ever took, people complained on weapons and webbing feeling tiny on HI, swords been too thin, MI and HI not feeling too different from LI, complains about male and female models been difficult to differentiate from males and so on, the artistic direction taken right after that is the one that generated the least complains.

@ Kanluwen
I am afraid you want to interpret what they said about the concept art and it was about the concept art in a way it was never meant, what Bostria said was that from the artwork from CJC shown back then and onward the art direction would be unified and it is, if you compare the models from back then with the new ones they have the same elements and they feel unified as concept art used, of course the line moved to the new artistic direction were it is bigger, easier to paint and assemble with more robust components were male and female models are visually different and weapons and gear is proportionate to the model and nor realistically kept the same among models, but the design elements are constant and unified as it was announced back then.

Now on the topic, we know nothing official about black hand or the unit names mentioned, the only official talk we have is quite old and it was discussing if Black hand would have enouph units to actually have a sectorial of its own or be folded on the Tunguska as was the Observance with Bakunin, we had no official answer on that.

Bostria said on Facebook in comments on the Kriza Borac silhouette pic 'Consider "Black Hand" inside Tunguska as "The Observancy" is inside Bakunin.'

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
@ -Loki-

I did and indeed it has, despite the few rare oddities one can present (and they are few and far between) the line is more or less unified and coherent as far as height goes, I am not sure how old is the Janissary HMG digital sculpt, the "gap between releases" means nothing since the sculpts between releases can be sculpted at entirely different times, if one wants to make an example they should use the Kaauri in my opinion.

Age of a digital sculpt means nothing. It's there, and it's done. You've got your base model to pose and swap some assets like weapons. That's why you do digital sculpting to form a coherent model line over time, to reuse old assets.

Between the HMG blister and box, the sculpt was essentially redone. It wasn't just a case of increasing by 10% or the master molds being a bit different - that honestly wouldn't have bothered me. The models in the box have considerably different proportions, and overall it looks like it swallowed a gamma bomb. That just shouldn't happen when you're using and reusing digital assets to maintain consistency.

If you think they don't reuse digital assets like this and think they digitally sculpt each model and just try as hard as possible to maintain consistency, then I don't think I can even continue the discussion with you. That's why you do digital sculpting.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Bostria said on Facebook in comments on the Kriza Borac silhouette pic 'Consider "Black Hand" inside Tunguska as "The Observancy" is inside Bakunin.'

So they will be like Observance and Bakunin? probably for the best.

@ -Loki-

What I mean is the sculpt could have been made before the Icestorm standardisation.

Of course they have assets and they share it in the studio and they manually adjust them for each model, it would be stupid to not have.

For the love of god, please take this discussion elsewhere.

 .Mikes. wrote:
For the love of god, please take this discussion elsewhere.

This guy has my vote!

I like the Tarik, but I would want to know that I could use something in the Ramah Taskforce, and I doubt that is the case for the Ragik and Fiday.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Bostria said on Facebook in comments on the Kriza Borac silhouette pic 'Consider "Black Hand" inside Tunguska as "The Observancy" is inside Bakunin.'

So they will be like Observance and Bakunin? probably for the best.

@ -Loki-

What I mean is the sculpt could have been made before the Icestorm standardisation.

Of course they have assets and they share it in the studio and they manually adjust them for each model, it would be stupid to not have.

So What's the excuse for the non standard stuff done after the Ice storm standardization or should that have been picked up in the following standardization or was it done in advance to link up with the pre-post-pre standardization that followed.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

RULE #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

We've definitely discussed it enough in this thread - please feel free to start a thread here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/59.page

if anyone wishes to continue the 'scale discussion'.

Thanks!

Folding the Black Hand into Tunguska makes sense to me. I do recall Bostria mentioning something about not creating too much bloat to the factions.

I wonder if they will trim the number of sectorials for other factions too.

GenCon starts in 1 month, and I think CB's seminar will be 19 August. Should be interesting. Plus, we'll get to see/hear about the Aristeia! demos. Demoes? w/e.

New models in the 'Beyond' packs are incredible. I had my reservations before the release due to including two factions in one rather than two separate expansion packs but great sculpts and good choice of models have put those to rest. Great to see such a positive response to them from the community too.

Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Folding the Black Hand into Tunguska makes sense to me. I do recall Bostria mentioning something about not creating too much bloat to the factions.

I wonder if they will trim the number of sectorials for other factions too.

Messing with current sectorials would be playing with fire, I think. And too many people are clamouring for more like the Kazaks, Varuna and Svarlerheimaermamaermaheima for them to ignore it. I think we'll just have to put up with the bloat.

 Red Harvest wrote:
GenCon starts in 1 month, and I think CB's seminar will be 19 August. Should be interesting. Plus, we'll get to see/hear about the Aristeia! demos. Demoes? w/e.

On July 28th, in Spain, CB will have its own event: The Interplanetario

The big seminar full of concept artwork will happen there, before Gencon this year.
So expect this thread to be swarmed with low res images of upcoming stuff in two weeks.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
Folding the Black Hand into Tunguska makes sense to me. I do recall Bostria mentioning something about not creating too much bloat to the factions.

I wonder if they will trim the number of sectorials for other factions too.

Messing with current sectorials would be playing with fire, I think. And too many people are clamouring for more like the Kazaks, Varuna and Svarlerheimaermamaermaheima for them to ignore it. I think we'll just have to put up with the bloat.

Thing is, some factions have enough units that justify a fourth sectorial, and some just don't. Black Hand is a cool idea, but it seems CB can't make enough unique units to fill it. They were talking about rolling them into Tunguska years ago the way they rolled the Observance into Bakunin. But then you've got, say Gabqar Khanate, where the stuff they have really doesn't fit elsewhere in the fluff or on the table, and there's a lot of scope to make new units that are rather unique for that sectorial.

I think we'll just end up with uneven amounts of sectorials. Some, like Nomads, might sit at three, some might sit at four or, like Pan Oceania, five. Either that or they will think of different fourth sectorials.

 -Loki- wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
Folding the Black Hand into Tunguska makes sense to me. I do recall Bostria mentioning something about not creating too much bloat to the factions.

I wonder if they will trim the number of sectorials for other factions too.

Messing with current sectorials would be playing with fire, I think. And too many people are clamouring for more like the Kazaks, Varuna and Svarlerheimaermamaermaheima for them to ignore it. I think we'll just have to put up with the bloat.

Thing is, some factions have enough units that justify a fourth sectorial, and some just don't. Black Hand is a cool idea, but it seems CB can't make enough unique units to fill it. They were talking about rolling them into Tunguska years ago the way they rolled the Observance into Bakunin. But then you've got, say Gabqar Khanate, where the stuff they have really doesn't fit elsewhere in the fluff or on the table, and there's a lot of scope to make new units that are rather unique for that sectorial.

I think we'll just end up with uneven amounts of sectorials. Some, like Nomads, might sit at three, some might sit at four or, like Pan Oceania, five. Either that or they will think of different fourth sectorials.

Nothing wrong with Nomads only having 3 sectorials. Ariadna will really only be getting 1 new sectorial as well.

Do we have a profile yet for the Kriza Boracs, Tunguska Crisis Special Unit?

 -Loki- wrote:

I think we'll just end up with uneven amounts of sectorials. Some, like Nomads, might sit at three, some might sit at four or, like Pan Oceania, five. Either that or they will think of different fourth sectorials.

I'm OK with that. I'm against the approaches in gaming that says one faction needs a mirror because the other factions have X already.

Also, it would be interesting to see if if the Svarlaheimamhneminnaheima sectorial ends up being cross some kind fof cross PanO/YuJing force. I don't see it happening, but it would be fun.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

Sold out for now...

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

Sold out for now...

Looks like I ruined for everyone when I placed my order.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

I think we'll just end up with uneven amounts of sectorials. Some, like Nomads, might sit at three, some might sit at four or, like Pan Oceania, five. Either that or they will think of different fourth sectorials.

I'm OK with that. I'm against the approaches in gaming that says one faction needs a mirror because the other factions have X already.

Also, it would be interesting to see if if the Svarlaheimamhneminnaheima sectorial ends up being cross some kind fof cross PanO/YuJing force. I don't see it happening, but it would be fun.

Yeah that won't happen. White Banner is the Yu Jing opposing force on Svalarheima and is already in progress. IIRC they're in the next book.

Unboxing Gencon Bundle

Well, the Fiday isn't the Muyib-ish render we saw, which is good news.
Tarik with a t-shirt cannon is still a boring waste of time.

I love that they took multi angle shots but still had the minis being fumbled at on camera for no particular reason.

Carlos wrote:Kriza Boraks

This is triggering me more than it should.

Yup. That Grunt will be mine.

Need GenCon Ninja Shopper now!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yup. That Grunt will be mine.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Need GenCon Ninja Shopper now!

What they said.

 Knight wrote:

Carlos wrote:Kriza Boraks

This is triggering me more than it should.

I'm a native Turkish speaker, and I assure you many of the Haqqi models also have infuriating pluralization. I guess it's similar to how Italians hate it when English speakers day "paninis"

We English speakers sometimes double pluralize words, even pronouns. Youse is a plural of the 2nd person plural for example. Why should borrowed words be immune?

That Spec Op is nice. I would ditch that tactical rock, and mount his front foot on a clear latex rod -- perhaps obscured by a bit of foliage-- so it looks like he is leaping forward.

I already have a Chibi, from SDE. At some point I'll paint it. So, no want/need/interest in this. It is a nice mini for an exclusive. It has no use in game, so nobody ought to feel left out if they don't get it. Although I suppose that it could be used in-game for the Lulz.

 Knight wrote:

Carlos wrote:Kriza Boraks

This is triggering me more than it should.

Could be worse. Mini could be a stereotype, like, say, some of the Hill-Billies in USAriadna.

Phone typing be hard. Ack!

That grunt, along with my other spec ops model, will finally replace Chasseurs in my army, except for Moblot resculpts, I will finally be able to play a decent FRRM army.

Concept designs

The screencaps are from the WGC Infinity FB group, taken from the BoW video BobbaFett posted.
Yu Jing



USARF
General Release

GenCon


PanOceania


Nomads




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Haqqislam designs are so similar to the current stuff I couldn't justify bringing them over, and the Hellcat dossier is the one from the line revamp just with some new guns.

ABH and CSU ones also aren't that exciting.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The screencaps are from the WGC Infinity FB group, taken from the BoW video BobbaFett posted.

Nomads



Automatically Appended Next Post:

I'll reiterate that the helmets were better on the previous 3 intruders.
Not sure why they felt the need to change them...

It's the same helmet as the previous 3, just with the X-Visor modeled.

It wasn't modeled on the previous Sniper.

Impressive how a palette change and a head swap make the USARF spec op look so different. Damn, I think I might have to get that GenCon version after all..

Interesting. Daofei's coat seems to be more of a cape. But why does he have a Spitfire and an HMG? Isn't that kind of redundant to have both?

 Barzam wrote:
Interesting. Daofei's coat seems to be more of a cape. But why does he have a Spitfire and an HMG? Isn't that kind of redundant to have both?

HMGs are kind of a long range firebase weapon while Spitfires are a closer-in support/suppression weapon.

Daofei have Infiltrate so can be either role.

They seem to have put some sort of sight on PanO ML! Huzzah!

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

Sold out for now...

Looks like I ruined for everyone when I placed my order.

Anyone else seen them go up for preorders yet?

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

Sold out for now...

Looks like I ruined for everyone when I placed my order.

Anyone else seen them go up for preorders yet?

Preorders start on July 24th and continue to August 21st.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nomads

Did they explain what the quad kegs on his back are for?

No, though Anime influence means they are probably power cells.

Power Cells and/or Manoeuvring Jets for operating in a vacuum.

All the hair cables seem to go there so my money is on power cells too.

The 'hair cables' really do complete the not-CA look for him too!

 Alpharius wrote:
The 'hair cables' really do complete the not-CA look for him too!

Whoever chose to have those as white was silly. The mixture of the white cables and black and red armor is what really is making the CA look for him.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nomads

Also, jeez, that's cool. Reminds me of a TR MAX from PS2.

These are the "generic" profiles for Vanilla, so the AVA is not right. Kriza Borac are looking at something like AVA3-4 for Tunguska.

Kriza Borac are not complete according to Bostria and might change before release.

"Full Auto" is a new skill that lets you boost your Burst value on all weapons. Full Auto L2 basically makes a single model into a Link Team.

Interesting!

And thanks for posting them here!

Ninja'd
yup!

That is Full Auto 1, Full Auto 2 makes enemies receive a -3BS, both applicable only in the active turn.

Kamau rework is interesting makes them quite good at static defence but sacrificed mobility a lot.

Edit we also learned Varuna will have a female Orc character, couldn't get the name though, speculation now for Orc fireteams in Varuna.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
That is Full Auto 1, Full Auto 2 makes enemies receive a -3BS, both applicable only in the active turn.

Things are subject to change, hence why I didn't post the details on Full Auto L2.

Kamau rework is interesting makes them quite good at static defence but sacrificed mobility a lot.

It also made them more expensive than Wildcats...so "quite good" isn't quite what people are discussing regarding Kamau.

for a static defence, probably for a Haris, or full firebase, they are not bad, mimetism and high BS will make them survivable, for a mobile fireteam, they are not that great, still mimetism is good, but the 4-2 is quite taxing on orders.

I really like the MK12 360 visor version. A lot.

Kamau are supposed to be 4-4, not 4-2.

Copy/paste wins again!

Was about to post that, indeed with 4-4 they are really really nice.

Anyone have a complete list of the content for the two new expansion boxes, and which Sectorials they can go into as well?

(Please? )

PanOceania:

1x Kamau, Amphibious Intervention Teams (HMG)--Varuna
1x Swiss Guard (HMG)--Neoterra
1x NeoTerra Bolts (Paramedic)--Neoterra

Nomads:

1x Hellcats (Spitfire)--Corregidor
1x Intruder, Corregidor Assault Commandos (MULTI Sniper Rifle)--Corregidor
1x Kriza Boracs, Tunguska Crisis Special Unit (MK12)--Tunguska



1x Authorized Bounty Hunter (2 Breaker Pistols) RESERVATION EXCLUSIVE--Vanilla or Imperial Service for Yu Jing.

Beyond Red Veil Expansion Pack contents:

Yu Jing:

1x Daofei (HMG)--White Banner Sectorial
1x Zhanying Imperial Agent (Breaker Combi Rifle)--Imperial Service
1x Guilang Skirmisher (MULTI Sniper Rifle)--White Banner

Haqqislam:

1x Tarik Mansuri (Spitfire)--Ramah Task Force
1x Hassassin Fiday (DA CCW)--Hassassins
1x Hassassin Ragik (Boarding Shotgun)--Hassassins



1x CSU (Breaker Rifle) RESERVATION EXCLUSIVE--Neoterra

I disagree they are really, really nice, it might not fit your play style, but their potential is obvious and yes I realise they are just a point shy from a Bagh Mari.

 Alpharius wrote:
Anyone have a complete list of the content for the two new expansion boxes, and which Sectorials they can go into as well?

(Please? )

BEYOND Icestorm

PanoOceania:
Kamau (HMG) [Varuna]
Swiss Guard (HMG) [Neoterra]
Neoterra Bolt Paramedic (MediKit) [Neoterra]

Nomads:
Hellcat (Spitfire) [Corregidor]
Intruder (MULTI Sniper) [Corregidor]
Kriza Borac (Mk12) [Tunguska]

Exclusive miniature: Authorized Bounty Hunter [Imperial Service]

BEYOND Red Veil.

Yu Jing
Dao Fei (HMG) [White Banner Army]
Zhan Ying (Combi Breaker, Foward Observer) [Imperial Service]
Gui Lang (MULTI Sniper Rifle) [White Banner Army]

Haqqislam:
Tarik Mansuri (Spitfire) [Ramah Taskforce]
Hassassin Ragik (Boarding Shotgun) [Hassassin Bharam]
Hassassin Fiday [Hassassin Bharam]

Exclusive miniature: CSU [Neoterra]

EDIT: ARGH! Ninja'd again!!

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I disagree they are really, really nice, it might not fit your play style, but their potential is obvious and yes I realise they are just a point shy from a Bagh Mari.

It's not a question of playstyle. It's, as always, a question of yet another bloated and uninspired PanOceanian profile that doesn't actually do anything interesting or unique.

Edit ninjad

Beyond Icestorm
Kamau Varuna (not available yet)
Bolt Neotera
Swiss Guard Neotera

Intruder Corregidor
Hellcat Corregidor
Kriza Boiraks Tunguska (not Available Yet)

Beyond red veil
Taric Mansuri Ramah (not yet available)
Ragic Hassassin
Fiday Hassassin

Zhanynig Imperial service
Daofey White banner (not yet available)
Guylang White banner (not yet available)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I disagree they are really, really nice, it might not fit your play style, but their potential is obvious and yes I realise they are just a point shy from a Bagh Mari.

It's not a question of playstyle. It's, as always, a question of yet another bloated and uninspired PanOceanian profile that doesn't actually do anything interesting or unique.

Well that is what PanO do, you understand that they are optimised, streamlined and single minded.

Full Auto? Yet Another rule? Ya basta, CB.

Still, the Kriza Borci look darned useful. The Kamau? It can hold my Bagh-Mari's beer.

Well, there goes the interest i had in Varuna out the window. Its like the Fusiliers profiles with mimetism slapt on them for 11p extra.
Even removed the only unique thing they had in PanO to make them "streamlined", the LgL with x visor.
If they didn't want to give them a boarding shotgun to differentiate them from the Bag-mari they could have given them a Dual SMG profile on one of their specialist options and/or a vanilla Kamaou.

The Kriza Borak on the other hand is very nice. They even have a B3 DAM14 shock gun for close range. Like the Auto Lvl2 skill as it makes them good on the offensive even against msv users.
The question is, would you rather have one Borat or two Kamaou?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I disagree they are really, really nice, it might not fit your play style, but their potential is obvious and yes I realise they are just a point shy from a Bagh Mari.

It's not a question of playstyle. It's, as always, a question of yet another bloated and uninspired PanOceanian profile that doesn't actually do anything interesting or unique.

Well that is what PanO do, you understand that they are optimised, streamlined and single minded.

I wouldn't cal PanO optimized. Thats the ALEPH department were almost everything is optimized for the purpose the unit has from the cheap Dakini and Thorakitai to the super optimized units such as Post-humans and Achilles without any extra dodas on to inflate costs.
Streamlined and single minded i can agree upon, but then streamlined is in most cases uninteresting and boring.

Wait, So the non faction mini in each box is actually.. only useful to the other box? Huh? That seems like kind of a **** move.

 Siygess wrote:
Wait, So the non faction mini in each box is actually.. only useful to the other box? Huh? That seems like kind of a **** move.

Well, the Authorized Bounty Hunter works in this aspect as the boxes aren't meant to be Sectorials for PanO/Nomads. ABHs are available to any Vanilla Human force.

But yeah. That's about the size of it.

 Red Harvest wrote:
FStill, the Kriza Borci look darned useful.

The question is, would you rather have one Borat or two Kamaou?

You two are doing it right.

Borac is amazing and Kamau made me drop interest in Varuna. Onward to other projects.

Bostria confirmed that the 4-2 move on the Kamau was an error, they should still be 4-4.
I can see that they are objectively a solid link, just a bit dull.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pre-orders are up on gamenerdz for $38 each.

That's hot.

Sold out for now...

Looks like I ruined for everyone when I placed my order.

Back in stock just now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unrelated side note:
Are new celestial guard or Caledonia volunteer boxes anywhere in the immediate future plans?

Caledonia Volunteers definitely are, we saw renders for a couple of them when we saw the renders for the Caledonia starter.

From the Adepicon seminar I believe

 Monkeysloth wrote:
From the Adepicon seminar I believe

I guess the older HMG sculpt is staying then. Aren't 3 of these guys already in the starter?
Will the remaining 2 here be released as a blister? Or will they crank out 2 more and make a box?

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
From the Adepicon seminar I believe

I guess the older HMG sculpt is staying then. Aren't 3 of these guys already in the starter?
Will the remaining 2 here be released as a blister? Or will they crank out 2 more and make a box?

There's a box coming. There's more sculpts that weren't shown as part of the renders there.

And there's literally a new HMG model in the picture you quoted. The guy with the weapon held up in the air, between the riflewoman and chain rifle model.

Yep, got everything a fiery Caledonian needs - LGL, wellness pistol, rifle, HMG, chain rifle, and zero tactical heels.

Since I'm kind of new to this, how do the pre-orders work? Is the extra model just for ordering from CB's webstore or are there other ways to order the set with the bonus figure?

 LunarSol wrote:
Since I'm kind of new to this, how do the pre-orders work? Is the extra model just for ordering from CB's webstore or are there other ways to order the set with the bonus figure?

The preorder model(CSU for Beyond Red Veil and ABH for Beyond Icestorm) is going to be included no matter where you order it from. It's something that should actually be within the box, not as a separate blister.

The GenCon exclusives(chibi Musashi and Grunt Intel) will only be available at Interplanetario, GenCon, or via the CB webstore.

I advise you, as being based in the US, to see if anyone you know is going to GenCon and just having them get you the box and any of the two exclusives there if possible. Spanish post is extortionate.

Shouldn't he be able to preorder the gencon deal from his local game store?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Shouldn't he be able to preorder the gencon deal from his local game store?

No, because the GenCon deal featuring the Chibi Model and Grunt would have to go through Corvus Belli proper and I can't think of any retailers in the US that do such a thing--because CB themselves prefer to deal with distributors rather than shops.

I do not know the american market, but I think the distributor can order the preorders from CB.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I do not know the american market, but I think the distributor can order the preorders from CB.

Preorders are not the same as event exclusives.

Stop being disingenuous.

The "preorder deal" through CB is the event exclusives and both Beyond sets.
He'd be able to get the Beyond sets starting July 24th, but there is NO distributor/retailer here in the US that can sell the GenCon exclusives without picking them up at the event and reselling them on.

That's the whole reason why I said that if he wanted the GenCon exclusives, it's better just to have someone pick the stuff up for him at the event if he can manage it.

I am not disingenuous and stop accusing people, it is getting really old.

In EU stores can preorder the gencon deal through CB and iirc through distributors, I am unsure why distributors in US cannot do the same, theoretically they should right?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not disingenuous and stop accusing people, it is getting really old.

Then stop trying to act as though you have insider knowledge when it comes to stuff like this.

It's a disingenuous argument to try to say that you don't know the American market, but distributors can preorders from CB. You know(or should know) that the event exclusives haven't been available outside of CB's webstore or the events proper.

In EU stores can preorder the gencon deal through CB and iirc through distributors, I am unsure why distributors in US cannot do the same, theoretically they should right?

Never heard of distributors being able to get the GenCon deal(the GenCon/event exclusives and the new stuff), US or otherwise. If it were doable, Warstore would have done it since they're also the distributor here in the US.

The opposite is true of retailers, who theoretically can order it from CB directly for customers...but why the hell would anyone who has access to a ninja shopper for GenCon ever do that?
It's $20 for a single model but ordering from CB means you're looking at something like ~$45-50 USD because of shipping.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not disingenuous and stop accusing people, it is getting really old.

In EU stores can preorder the gencon deal through CB and iirc through distributors, I am unsure why distributors in US cannot do the same, theoretically they should right?

That's never been the case. Our only option is coming close to doubling the cost of the exclusive through postal costs by ordering it direct from CB.

 plastictrees wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not disingenuous and stop accusing people, it is getting really old.

In EU stores can preorder the gencon deal through CB and iirc through distributors, I am unsure why distributors in US cannot do the same, theoretically they should right?

That's never been the case. Our only option is coming close to doubling the cost of the exclusive through postal costs by ordering it direct from CB.

Just so we're clear and there's no confusion following on from your statement, Plastictrees:
When the preorder period starts (in this case on July 24th), US/Canadian customers will be able to preorder the Beyond Icestorm and Beyond Red Veil boxed sets through their local retailers.
They will not be able to obtain the GenCon Intel Grunt variant or Chibi Musashi.

CB does not offer the GenCon event exclusives to their distributors or retailers here in the US.

I think they did it once with The Warstore having GenCon Penthesilea available, but past that I can't think of anything event exclusive to be available.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's a disingenuous argument to try to say that you don't know the American market, but distributors can preorders from CB. You know(or should know) that the event exclusives haven't been available outside of CB's webstore or the events proper.

Sigh

You could just say something neutral along the lines of "I do not know how it is done in Europe, but here in the US distributors cannot order the gencon exclusives" or something nicer like " I am afraid not in the US distributors cannot order the gencon exclusive deal, it goes only through CB" or ask if distributors in EU can order the gencon deal in contrast with the US, but no you chose the direct confrontation as always, because somebody dared to claim ignorance on the US market and said that he thinks that in the EU distributors get to order the gencon exclusive....

Anyway what I was saying is it was worth to try and ask if such thing was possible in the US, if it is not, well ninja shopper is the only way.

Can we please stop bumping heads in this thread? We have almost dead subforum.

EU distributors can't order the GenCon exclusives. The GenCon exclusives (Grunt SpecOp and Chiba Mushashi) are only available through CB directly, either at the event or on their webstore.

Yeah, it's pretty common knowledge that the gencon exclusives are limited to CBs webstore or pickup at the show.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The opposite is true of retailers, who theoretically can order it from CB directly for customers...but why the hell would anyone who has access to a ninja shopper for GenCon ever do that?

Supplies are limited at GenCon, and these items have sold out quickly in the past. A GenCon shopper may not get to the booth in time to buy the items before they are gone. Pre-ordering it more or less guarantees that a person will get the items. Ordering the GenCon offer through a retailer though...

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The opposite is true of retailers, who theoretically can order it from CB directly for customers...but why the hell would anyone who has access to a ninja shopper for GenCon ever do that?

Supplies are limited at GenCon, and these items have sold out quickly in the past. A GenCon shopper may not get to the booth in time to buy the items before they are gone.

CB could always go the way that Forge World does events. They let you place an order for the items, right then and there, if they're sold out of them and not charge you the shipping for it.

Pre-ordering it more or less guarantees that a person will get the items.

Which is it, more or less?

The preorder period is July 24th through August 21st. Part of the reason why it is such a long run-up from CB's own words in the past was so that they could increase casting to match the preorders they get through their own store.

Ordering the GenCon offer through a retailer though...

Like I said, it's a theoretical. You'd need a retailer willing to do it, someone in charge of ordering that is on the ball enough to know that it's a thing...given that some of them can't be bothered to keep track of the new releases it can be a crap shoot at best.

GenCon shoppers are your best bet.

Weird, I know some local players got last years gencon deal from a non local shop and claimed it came from the shops regular distributor.

Didn't pay much attention to it back then since my local game store orders directly from CB.

If that is the case then gencon is probably the only deal, not sure if a store ordering directly from CB is worth after a sufficient number of people order.

Should have been clearer. I was asking about the Beyond expansions. Wasn't concerned at all with the chibi or the other guy. Thanks for the clarification though.

 LunarSol wrote:
Should have been clearer. I was asking about the Beyond expansions. Wasn't concerned at all with the chibi or the other guy. Thanks for the clarification though.

The Beyond sets are general release sets with a pre order bonus miniature. If your FLGS or online retailer of choice stocks Infinity, they will have no problems getting you these sets with the pre order model as long as you pre order in the given time frame.

2016 GenCon Exclusive Unknown Ranger


Regular release released later last year.


2015 GenCon Exclusive Van Zant


Regular Release released later that same year. IMHO better that the Gencon one.


2014 GenCon Exclusive Tabitha Lyons Cosplay Neoterra Bolt

This one is the most rare of all. There were just 200 copies sold.

CB usually releases these exclusive model for $20 US Dollar. It's a way for them cover the cost of the event.
Anyway, while these products seem to have some kind of "bubble" on Ebay after the event. CB usually sells an alternative version with an arms swap months after the event.
I would rather put my money on a CSU or Chasseur figure before any of these.

You can still buy the Tabitha Lyons Bolt from her store:
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/279544772/neoterra-bolts-cosplay-edition-figure?ref=shop_home_active_1

Wow, I didn't realise that - thanks !

She is a very er... talented woman!

 BobbaFett wrote:
2014 GenCon Exclusive Tabitha Lyons Cosplay Neoterra Bolt

Spoiler:

This one is the most rare of all. There were just 200 copies sold.

200 copies at GenCon, the mini sold out quickly, as did Icestorm and Penthesilea. (My GenCon shopper managed to get me all 3.) CB sold plenty more through their own store. And as noted, Tabitha Lyons sells them through her store. I believe the rarest mini would be the LE Yuan-Yuan sold through Battlefoam. Buy a bag, get the LE mini. I'm not counting minis CB made, but decided not to mass produce, and instead gave away as prizes at tournaments in Spain.

We are awaiting the Interplanetary seminar this Saturday? Will anybody be streaming it?

After collecting every LE, I can say with confidence the 2014 ITS Sniper is by FAR the hardest mini to obtain.

I had 3 Battlefoam Yuan Yuan in my possession at once, before finally getting the 2014 Sniper.

Speaking of Ninja Shoppers..... who's out there? Hit me up!

Sadly, my Ninja Shoppers decided that they preferred Origins Game Fair over GenCon. Less crowded, more laid back. So I am shopper-less this year. Ah well, can't say that I want the GenCon exclusive, just the Red Veil expansion, and as noted, it is easily pre-ordered through any number of sources.

There were apparently 750 of the Battlefoam Yuan-Yuan. I have no idea how many of the ITS minis CB may have cast. Perhaps the ITS minis are the rarest. Anyone know how many ITS packages CB sells in a given year? They are easily obtainable in the year of release... just buy an ITS package. Not cheap though.

This is the ITS 2014 LE Bounty Hunter with Sniper Rifle




Anyway, CB did release this Bounty hunter with the same body and different loadout in 2015.



BTW, Lovely concept Art.

Yes, I know...


...I'm still looking to get the sniper version!

What's new?

 Knight wrote:
What's new?

Not a bit of what BobbaFett is, randomly, posting.

 Knight wrote:
What's new?

Bostria will be giving his seminar at Interplanetary this Saturday, 7:30pm to 8:30pm local Vigo time, which is 1:30pm to 2:30pm Eastern Standard Time.

We'll get the new and shiny then, if it is streamed. Otherwise we are at the mercy of the attendees to give us information.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Knight wrote:
What's new?

Not a bit of what BobbaFett is, randomly, posting.

Not really random. We were talking about LE's....

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Knight wrote:
What's new?

Bostria will be giving his seminar at Interplanetary this Saturday, 7:30pm to 8:30pm local Vigo time, which is 1:30pm to 2:30pm Eastern Standard Time.

We'll get the new and shiny then, if it is streamed. Otherwise we are at the mercy of the attendees to give us information.

Correct. And also on Friday they will have round atble and Aristeia! seminars.
So, expect a bomb of forum rumours and blurry phone pics this weekend.

We do have Infinity subforum, where I think it would be more fitting place to discuss all the past LE releases.

We'll get the new and shiny then, if it is streamed.

I imagine they'll talk about Aristea and upcoming sectorials. I could see them talking about the general design of Aristea's mechanics, characters and followed with the sectorials.

Yup. Here is the schedule.


I do hope all the attendees and staff enjoy the event. And we get all sorts of info. I still bet Bostria will hold stuff back for GenCon.

I already have a sniper because I like the model (naga) and have the Knauf model to use as a bounty hunter, but that is pretty looking.

Releases for the next 3 months..

September
-Locust clandestine action team hacker
-Umbra legates spitfire
-shikami combi
-Caledonian Volunteers box
-Hassassin Bahram Sectorial box (3 Daylami (?) a Muhib, an Ayyar, and a ??? Fiday? Farzan?)
-Re-pack of Nagas
-Re-pack of Hellcats

October
--Something unreadable--
-Andromeda
-Taskmaster Swast team
-Pneumarch -- CA HVT mini
-Crusader Brethren Multi-rifle+ LFT
-Re-pack of Gao-Rael
-Re-pack of Tiger SOldiers
-300 point Corregidor army box (re-pack)

November
--something unreadable--
-USAriadna Spec Ops Grunt version
-Joe Scarface (from the ITS pack)
-Jeanne D'Arc, in the classic Marianne pose. Very nice touch. Allons enfants de la Patrie!
-Hassassin Muyibs box
-Re-pack of Hac Tao
-Re-pack of Moran Masai hunters

low-res photos here https://www.facebook.com/groups/WGCInfinity/

No point in re-posting them -- they are really crappy--when better images are coming along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have no interest in starting the MO sectorial, but that Jeanne D'Arc is definitely worth getting.

Doesn't appear to be any BLACKJACKS ON THAT LIST!!!

 TalonZahn wrote:
Doesn't appear to be any BLACKJACKS ON THAT LIST!!!

Yup.

Blackjacks aren't this year.

Blackjacks could very well be the redacted October release especially considering it's so heavily hyped. Also, October is the only month that doesn't have a big box (Assuming Andromeda will be a blister).

Not this year, it seems, but Neema is killing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Blackjacks could very well be the redacted October release especially considering it's so heavily hyped. Also, October is the only month that doesn't have a big box (Assuming Andromeda will be a blister).

Might be, but we still don't have a dossier.

Neema could be December. I thought I'd seen something about us getting a blackjack dossier at GenCon but thinking about it they might have mentioned that about the Locust.

Locust was definitely slated for a dossier at GenCon.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Locust was definitely slated for a dossier at GenCon.

Must be what I was thinking of then.

Well these are really nice news, new models look great.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Releases for the next 3 months..

October
--Something unreadable--


November
--something unreadable--

low-res photos here https://www.facebook.com/groups/WGCInfinity/

Those are question marks. Either keeping them secret for a later announcement or are unable to confirm the release just yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Absolutionis wrote:

Great!
Uh... what are all they?
Looks like:
3 Daylami
1 Ayyar
2 Muyibs

Any other ideas? I don't see it listed what all is in that box

Ah, well they were unreadable to me. As I wrote, crappy lo-res photos. Perhaps those will be revealed at the GenCon seminar in a couple of weeks.

3 Daylami, 1 Muyib, 1 Ayyar and 1 Farzan or Fiday. I already have a nice enough Bahram collection, which I never play anymore...

Koni mentioned on the official forums that he will post nice Hi-res photos. The one on that facebook page hurt my eyes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, I want to see that Szalamandra render. The concept art is terrific!

 Red Harvest wrote:

That said, I want to see that Szalamandra render. The concept art is terrific!

I will lose my gak if it turns out to actually look like a TAG in combat and not another wave sword, scan battlefield, pointing finger TAG. Holy crap how hard is it to make a TAG that shoots with a gun! I only have a faint hope because the Geckos are the only ones who do jus that but they are barely TAG's.

Bahram starter -
Rifle Daylami
Rifle Daylami
Panzerfaust Daylami
Smoke LGL Muyib
Shock Marksman Rifle Ayyar
Rifle Farzan (this is a guess, but they showed a dossier for the Farzan and this is the only thing it could be. Also the rifle Fiday is in the Beyond box).

Muyibs box
Rifle
Spitfire
HRL
Doctor

No Morats. Sigh...

*Does the hospitaller dance*

Actually I think the first Daylami is an LGL. It doesn't have the extended barrel of a Rifle or a sickle magazine.

 -Loki- wrote:
Actually I think the first Daylami is an LGL. It doesn't have the extended barrel of a Rifle or a sickle magazine.

Could it be just a Light Shotgun?

Edit:
Going off the idea of it being just a Light Shotgun on the first one(a kind of "generic proxy" model for the Daylami almost) and your guess of Rifle Farzan, alongside of the purported shift to making Sectorial starters less "vanilla/player intro friendly" I got this as a list:
Hassassin Bahram
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

3 3
DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39)
FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
MUYIB Lieutenant Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)

2.5 SWC | 111 Points

Open in Infinity Army

It weighs in similarly pointswise to the USARF Sectorial starter without going for all the frills.

what's this about new Szalamandra artwork?

^^^This from the WGC facebook page.


IIRC, the Halqa are due for a re-write. Maybe the Daylami are too. They could use it. Right now, as irregular orders, they are not the stuff of a starter box. Or the basis for any sort of army. Mostly the minis serve as Ghulam or Halqa proxies.

I think that we will not see better images until Monday at the earliest, and realistically Tuesday.

Any news on Aristeia!?

Ah, for the page roll, I'll repeat the releases
Releases for the next 3 months..

September
-Locust clandestine action team hacker
-Umbra legates spitfire
-Shikami combi
-Caledonian Volunteers box
-Hassassin Bahram Sectorial box (3 Daylami (?) a Muyib, an Ayyar, and a ??? Fiday? Farzan?)
-Re-pack of Nagas
-Re-pack of Hellcats

October
--Something unreadable--
-Andromeda
-Taskmaster Swast team
-Pneumarch -- CA HVT mini
-Crusader Brethren Multi-rifle+ LFT
-Re-pack of Gao-Rael
-Re-pack of Tiger Soldiers
-300 point Corregidor army box (re-pack)

November
--something unreadable--
-USAriadna Spec Ops Grunt version
-Joe Scarface (from the ITS pack)
-Jeanne D'Arc, in the classic Marianne pose. Very nice touch. Allons enfants de la Patrie!
-Hassassin Muyibs box
-Re-pack of Hac Tao
-Re-pack of Moran Masai hunter

The Guard "animal" Andromeda has looks a bit like a Su Jian to me.

Way too many TREQs in the renders.

Thanks for that, Red Harvest. That is a much, much, much needed redesign. I hated the old one with a passion, so this is very welcome for me. I might actually get one of those, now. Here's hoping for an actual combat pose!

Hmm...hospitallers have no combined rifle on that dossier.....

Did anybody see the Cube Jaegers?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also shocked to see that some figures will apparently have arm swaps. The Taskmaster is shown with a Red Fury and a Rocket Launcher and the Ariadna Spec Ops has a shotgun and something else (molotok?)

 Red Harvest wrote:
Maybe the Daylami are too. They could use it. Right now, as irregular orders, they are not the stuff of a starter box. Or the basis for any sort of army. Mostly the minis serve as Ghulam or Halqa proxies.

Their Infiltration profiles are actually kind of popular. 10pts to put Rifle camo token, or 8pts, 0.5swc to put a panzerfaust camo token in the opponents half of the table can be incredibly disruptive. The opponent can't ignore them, but they're bad enough that spending orders dealing with them is a waste.

I agree though, they should have been left out of the starter. Irregular orders in a starter is hard mode for new players. Though I'm not exactly sure what they could have been replaced with.

 jake wrote:
No Morats. Sigh...

What are you missing? (Serious question, not rhetorical)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sure like that Umbra Legate with spitfire.

Was there any presentation on the future sectorials? I wonder, if there was any say on the ORC character?

Not surprised to see the aliens come up short again. The new CA models look nice, but this is a slim year for them. Just 4 releases (all blisters), one of which is the HVT, after everyone else got theirs last year. CA traditionally comes in last place for number of releases each year, but this is slim even for them. Amazingly, Tohaa managed to do worse, with only 3 releases this year (also all blisters). Like I said, I'm not really surprised. The alien armies almost always get the short end of the stick.

@jake What they lack in volume they make up in quality. I really like the CA releases.

Joan, the Salamander, and the Shikami are the other winners in my eyes.

 schoon wrote:
@jake What they lack in volume they make up in quality. I really like the CA releases.

I like them as well. But I'd like to get as many CA or Tohaa releases as PanO, Yujing or Haqq. I mean, I understand that some army has to get the least releases every year, but in the 7 years I've been play CA has had the least or second least number of releases every year expect for one year. Same with Tohaa. And CA and Tohaa releases tend toward blisters instead of boxes. so they tend to see less new models overall. Thats extremely frustrating.

CA or Tohaa releases as PanO, Yujing or Haqq.

Do you happen to have the number of releases per faction?Judging things on a feel, Nomads, Haqq and ISS have occupied CB's interest and production for a while.

 Knight wrote:

CA or Tohaa releases as PanO, Yujing or Haqq.

Do you happen to have the number of releases per faction?Judging things on a feel, Nomads, Haqq and ISS have occupied CB's interest and production for a while.

Curently ALEPH is getting the least amount of releases for the last couple of years. 3 releases a year for the last 3 years (including this one)

 Barzam wrote:

I'm also shocked to see that some figures will apparently have arm swaps. The Taskmaster is shown with a Red Fury and a Rocket Launcher and the Ariadna Spec Ops has a shotgun and something else (molotok?)

SpecOps sometimes get these. The original Ariadna Intel SpecOps has two different sets of "offhand" arms(he can have a knife out or a hand for sneak-balancing).

It's funny that these things they used to do, like multiple models in a blister and arm swaps were things they stopped doing because of "quality concerns" but now all of a sudden they're back...

 Knight wrote:

CA or Tohaa releases as PanO, Yujing or Haqq.

Do you happen to have the number of releases per faction?Judging things on a feel, Nomads, Haqq and ISS have occupied CB's interest and production for a while.

I don't anymore, but I made a list last year that showed averages over 6 years. Unfortunately I can't find it at the moment. But you can look back through their release photos on facebook to get an accurate account of what they've released. A quick look shows that Yujing dominated last year, with Haqq and Ariadna in second. Last year was actually a pretty okay year for CA (mostly thanks to the new Onyx units). Looking back over the years PanO, Yujing, Nomads, Haqq and Ariadna take turns at the top, while CA is almost always at or close to the bottom along with Tohaa and Aleph.

Curently ALEPH is getting the least amount of releases for the last couple of years. 3 releases a year for the last 3 years (including this one)

Thats not actually true. They had 5 releases last year (Hector, Posthumans, Achilles*, Garuda and HVT) and 4 releases in 2015 (Dactyl, Acmon, Teucer and Scylla & Drak). But yeah, things have been slim for Aleph too. They definitely join Tohaa and Combined Army at the bottom of the heap.

*Or 4 releases in 2016 and 5 in 2015, depending on when you'd like to count Achilles.

Anyway, my point was that the Aliens (and Aleph to) get less releases than other armies. It would be nice if all armies got the same number of releases.

Blame the fact that they view releases not as faction, but sectorial oriented.

Right now the Combined Army is down a sectorial for rework and the Tohaa don't have one yet.

 Barzam wrote:
Thanks for that, Red Harvest. That is a much, much, much needed redesign. I hated the old one with a passion, so this is very welcome for me. I might actually get one of those, now. Here's hoping for an actual combat pose!

I like the old one a lot - and while I agree that it was due a redesign, this one isn't it!

It looks like the Iguana!

I was hoping for something that at least slightly echoed the old one.

This one is disappointing for me...

While I feel the concept art is nice and it will grow on me, I will have to agree on the sentiment, I wished it had more connection with the old one.

Though the tale and "wings" were elements I wanted to see in the new design (and a flamethrower to the head to complete the dragon image).

 Kanluwen wrote:
Blame the fact that they view releases not as faction, but sectorial oriented.

Right now the Combined Army is down a sectorial for rework and the Tohaa don't have one yet.

CA still has two sectorials, both missing lots of models.

It's really weird that they have this release schedule set up that totally allows them to put out equal or near equal releases for every faction, but they don't do it. They could say "Hey, this year we're going to focus on the Bakunin and Shock Army sectorials and Yujing as a whole army. They'll be getting the most releases. But that still means we'll have about 30 releases for the rest of the year. So lets make sure each of the other 5 armies each get about 6 releases, and lets try to make one or more of those a box." Instead, each year there's two or 3 armies that only get 3-5 releases (often just blisters) while everyone else gets 7-9. So I wish they would plan their releases more evenly.

So when will we get Vedic Aleph?

 Mymearan wrote:
So when will we get Vedic Aleph?

We don't know, but Soon(tm).

Mañana™, actually. Vedic sectorial is in the next book, which is now an updated Paradiso, called, imaginatively enough, Paradiso N3. Next year, late next year, is the soonest we will get the book... or so went the few rumors I heard.

However, CB may release something earlier, a "get you by" sectorial, like they did for the USAriadna. Doubtful, but possible.

At least they did release a new Vedic mini and unit this year. CB is working on them, sloooowly.

I'm sure we already know this but...what's going to be in Paradiso N3 then?

(Please?)

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm sure we already know this but...what's going to be in Paradiso N3 then?

(Please?)

Varuna for PanO
Tunguska for Nomads
Ramah Task Force for Haqqislam
Invincible Army for Yu Jing
supposedly a Tohaa Sectorial
Kazaks for Ariadna

Don't know what for Combined Army, if anything. Same with ALEPH. Everything I've heard about Vedic points to it being in the book after, alongside the Svalarheima Sectorials for PanO and Yu Jing, the Khanate for Haqqislam, and Merovingians for Ariadna.

Isn't the plan to update the Paradiso's campaign system and include it into next expansion?

 Knight wrote:
Isn't the plan to update the Paradiso's campaign system and include it into next expansion?

That's where things get kinda weird/fuzzy.

There's talk of an expanded campaign system for "As Yet No Definitive Titled Book Previously Referred to as Acheron Falls", building off of Campaign: Paradiso's stuff and with the new Campaign: Paradiso strictly bringing SpecOps up to snuff for N3.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm sure we already know this but...what's going to be in Paradiso N3 then?

(Please?)

Varuna for PanO
Tunguska for Nomads
Ramah Task Force for Haqqislam
Invincible Army for Yu Jing
supposedly a Tohaa Sectorial
Kazaks for Ariadna

Don't know what for Combined Army, if anything. Same with ALEPH. Everything I've heard about Vedic points to it being in the book after, alongside the Svalarheima Sectorials for PanO and Yu Jing, the Khanate for Haqqislam, and Merovingians for Ariadna.

Shasvastii for Combined are planned for it, and I'm pretty sure Vedic are too. I've not seen anything that mentions it being the book after.

Yes, the new and improved Shasvastii for combined and la Force nouvelle et améliorée Merovingienne, for Ariadna, and the White Banner (Yu Jing Svalarheim) and possibly an 0-12 sectorial (doubtful.) and at least 1 merc sectorial, the White Star. plus the usual suspects, including a Tohaa sectorial.

I have the impression that CB revised their publishing plans more than they have let on, and more than they thought that they would need to do. They have acknowledged that they needed to revise the ruleset, N3 before proceeding with more shiny and new. Then they realized that simply supplying a FAQ/errata for Human Sphere would not do, so they revised that. Now, I think they are planning to make Paradiso N3 -- it is essentially confirmed?-- not just a rewrite of Paradiso N2, but will also take the opportunity to introduce all the new sectorials in it.

All far into the future. We've got the GenCon seminar coming up in 2 weeks, so maybe some of the blanks, Bostrai will fill them then.

 Kanluwen wrote:

supposedly a Tohaa Sectorial

Aubergine sectoral.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Yes, the new and improved Shasvastii for combined and la Force nouvelle et améliorée Merovingienne, for Ariadna, and the White Banner (Yu Jing Svalarheim) and possibly an 0-12 sectorial (doubtful.) and at least 1 merc sectorial, the White Star. plus the usual suspects, including a Tohaa sectorial.

I have the impression that CB revised their publishing plans more than they have let on, and more than they thought that they would need to do. They have acknowledged that they needed to revise the ruleset, N3 before proceeding with more shiny and new. Then they realized that simply supplying a FAQ/errata for Human Sphere would not do, so they revised that. Now, I think they are planning to make Paradiso N3 -- it is essentially confirmed?-- not just a rewrite of Paradiso N2, but will also take the opportunity to introduce all the new sectorials in it.

Actually, not "all the new sectorials". MRRF is, at last I heard, still heavily under redesign. It was not going to make Paradiso's rewrite.
The same with Shasvastii; although SEF is purportedly heavily being focused upon right now with an aim towards it being in the nuParadiso...which is tentatively slated for 2018.
Tunguska is purportedly done/finishing up now, same with the Russians, Varuna, and the Immortal Army. Last I heard the Ramah Task Force was basically done and just waiting for the book to drop.
I've heard basically nothing about the Vedic Sectorial, beyond "book after nuParadiso most likely Paradiso maybe". Them getting a new unit was a huge surprise to a lot of people.

White Banner(and the PanO opposite) were almost literally called out as being in the book after Paradiso, since none of the White Banner units were really emblematic of Paradiso's historical bend on things.
Varuna, the Russians(well--Ariadnan Expeditionary Force really but since they were broken up into forces based upon the whole national lines...), Tunguska, Ramah Task Force, and the Immortal Army--along with the opposing force of the Combined Army's Morat Aggression Force and what we now think of as the Onyx Contact Force are a Big Deal to that bit of lore.

The Tohaa Sectorial is purportedly the Triumvirate, which would even fit into this since they were responsible for diverting the second colony vessel from Dawn to Paradiso and basically conducting their own private version of "Alien: Covenant" and "Prometheus" on the settlers.


This is all dealing with rules, etc mind you--not models.

All far into the future. We've got the GenCon seminar coming up in 2 weeks, so maybe some of the blanks, Bostrai will fill them then.

I guarantee you that if these things were closer, we would have seen some of it at Interplanetario.

I would be surprised, by the by, if we don't see the Blackjacks at GenCon. They looooooooove showing off USARF stuff at GenCon because 'Merica or whatever.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm sure we already know this but...what's going to be in Paradiso N3 then?

(Please?)

Varuna for PanO
Tunguska for Nomads
Ramah Task Force for Haqqislam
Invincible Army for Yu Jing
supposedly a Tohaa Sectorial
Kazaks for Ariadna

Don't know what for Combined Army, if anything. Same with ALEPH. Everything I've heard about Vedic points to it being in the book after, alongside the Svalarheima Sectorials for PanO and Yu Jing, the Khanate for Haqqislam, and Merovingians for Ariadna.

Well, that's 3 Sectorials I'm interested in right there, with the RTF leading the way!

Thanks for that list/update - much appreciated!

 Kanluwen wrote:
They looooooooove showing off USARF stuff at GenCon because 'Merica or whatever.

Heck yeah!

Ah, I missed that about the MRRF. So it'll just be the Kazaks for Ariadna. Tant pis.

I intended to say Bostria might fill in the question marks on the mini release schedule. I typed something else. Oops. Nonetheless, he may discuss something more at GenCon that was not mentioned at Interplanetario. GenCon is too big an event, and too expensive to attend, to serve just the table scraps from Interplanetario. We'll get a nice reveal or two from GenCon. The Blackjack seems likely.

A lot of my original ability to resist the game came from a dislike of the TAG designs. The Iguana is probably the model that really broke me down and got me interested in Corregidor. The new Szally is pretty much guaranteed to expand that out to the rest of the faction. Really excited for Tunguska in general as its more my style from a gameplay perspective and the redesign is looking to be completely my style aesthetically now as well.

Well, on the plus side, I will have a reason to look forward to the new Paradiso book (hopefully they fix the endemic issues with the Paradiso campaign system and make Spec-ops worth taking in it; and maybe use the extra time to better playtest/edit the campaign mission). On the other hand, looks like we wont be getting that until some time in 2018 and it means yet another delay in release for Acheron Falls (which we're unlikely to see before 2020 at this point). Oh well, it will be fun to finally see the Invincible sectorial on the table, and perhaps the spec-ops system will actually be fun this time around. It should also make Paradiso feel like a meatier release than it did last time around when it was basically just a handful of filler units for some sectorials (and the Tohaa). So even if the campaign system ends up being naff again, the background and new units should be worth the price of admission.

I've given up on Acheron Falls. At this point, I'd rather see CB get everything into Paradiso N3-- all the sectorials, and the new units ( and, >:| new rules and weapons and ammo...) the updated Spec Ops and the improved Paradiso campaign and scenarios. And just forget about a 4th book.

See I don't care about PN3 as I'm interested in where the story will go as I don't like it when games are static in time so I'm still interested in book 4. I suspect some of the slow down has been the RPG as one of the writers for that mentioned that outside what was in existing books nothing really existed setting wise and there was a very long wait for Gutier to put everything down on paper.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
See I don't care about PN3 as I'm interested in where the story will go as I don't like it when games are static in time so I'm still interested in book 4. I suspect some of the slow down has been the RPG as one of the writers for that mentioned that outside what was in existing books nothing really existed setting wise and there was a very long wait for Gutier to put everything down on paper.

Not so much CB writing anything. Mostly down to Modiphius writing out the background, getting it to CB/Gutier for approval and then getting hit with a bunch of rewrites based on secret plot points and developments Gutier never divulged previously. Modiphius may write something that conflicted with the unwritten canon or upcoming plans and so they had to rewrite most of the background chapters several times to meet CB's approval.

But since Modiphius hires out to freelancers, CB's writing input is mostly just email correspondence and redlines on the text rather than substantial contributions to the text. CB were merely another set of editors when it came down to it.

Either way, this long wait on the next rulebook is about par for the course with CB. If anything, it shows they've improved in a way since they have so much other stuff on their plate, but it is still a bit grating to always have to wait a minimum of two years in between book releases. At least with most of the re-writes and wrinkles out of the way we'll hopefully have Modiphius giving us some official background content while we wait (at least I pray the release of the corebook will smooth over further delays with regards to CB approvals).

But as always, the wait will be well worth it.

A Warcor named Phlyk has posted up high-res images from Bostria's Interplanetario seminar.
It includes the stuff from Outrage and the Beyond packs.

Phlyk has granted permission, so here comes the boom! There will be a LOT of images, so be warned
NEW RELEASES

October and November have some question marks for releases, so we'll have to see what's what there...

Renders of forthcoming units:
Nomads
Taskmasters


Ariadna
Volunteers box

And yes, she does have a double barreled shotgun on the far right. That's the Caledonian Light Shotgun, according to the dossiers(check Phlyk's blog to see)
The box contains from left to right:
Chain Rifle, Light Grenade Launcher, HMG, and Light Shotgun

General Release Grunt Intel SpecOps


Haqqislam
New Hassassin starter

The dossier for the Muyibs definitely confirms that the starter Muyib has Rifle+LGL.

New Muyibs


Tohaa
Neema--new model; it's her Spitfire profile


Combined Army
Pneumarch HVT


Umbra Legate with Spitfire


The much lusted after Nexus Operative--helpfully with the Combi-Rifle profile to open with


Mercenaries
Scarface general release


Cube Jaeger--these are starting out as an ITS prize model.


PanOceania
...Who?
Starlord Locust!


Joan of Arc

She's standing on a tactical Umbra Legate, and this marks her fifth(?!) model.

Crusader Brethren with Multi-Rifle and Light Flamethrower


Yu Jing
Kanren Counter-Insurgency Operative

She will include Mad Traps!

SHIKAMI!



Parting shot:

Szalamandra will be mine...

Should be her 4th model

Original, mk2 high mobility armour (that can and not count as her model), limited edition, and new normal release.

Thank you very much for posting all of that here Kan!

Where does Shikami go again?

And that Szalamandra... Grrrr....

Yu Jing/ JSA, quite an interesting HI.

Yeah, super jump + climbing plus, ODD, specialist. I like the Shikami (in theory, I haven't played it. Seems like a lot of fun though).

I've been increasingly all in on Nomads, but I've wanted to do a JSA biker gang for a while as well. The Shikami is definitely going to make that a reality sooner than later, though I'm sad there's only one model for a profile that has Duo at the moment.

You only need one to create a Fireteam Duo.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
See I don't care about PN3 as I'm interested in where the story will go as I don't like it when games are static in time so I'm still interested in book 4. I suspect some of the slow down has been the RPG as one of the writers for that mentioned that outside what was in existing books nothing really existed setting wise and there was a very long wait for Gutier to put everything down on paper.

CB can advance the story through other means, such as the backgrounds in the Dire Foes sets. With new sectorials coming, and updated Spec Ops, and given that the Dire Foes sold well, according to Bostria, there will be more of these. Also, through the Manga. I bet CB would like to do another. GW solved the storyline issue through the Black Library. CB has very creative and competent people. I'm certain they will figure out better ways to keep the story going without needing to use rule books.

What's up with the Gropinator on the Jeanne D'Arc mini? Tacky. Locust hacker stole Tuareg hacker's pose.

Szalamandra isn't listed as a release in Sept/Oct/Nov. Maybe December?

Kinda think a lot of CA players will use the Pneamarch as a Nexus Hacker since it looks so similar in design.

Hell I'll probably do that.

 Micky wrote:
Kinda think a lot of CA players will use the Pneamarch as a Nexus Hacker since it looks so similar in design.

Hell I'll probably do that.

Why bother?

The Combi Rifle variant is what the Hacker profile has.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Why bother?

Because even in vanilla CA they are AVA 2? And some people don't like using multiples of the same model?

 Red Harvest wrote:
I've given up on Acheron Falls. At this point, I'd rather see CB get everything into Paradiso N3-- all the sectorials, and the new units ( and, >:| new rules and weapons and ammo...) the updated Spec Ops and the improved Paradiso campaign and scenarios. And just forget about a 4th book.

Acheron Falls is Paradiso N3 - it is and always has been the working title for the updated campaign book. The original Paradiso book was amazing so I'm ridiculously excited for the new campaign system, no matter what sectorials make it into the book.

As an aside, I think there's a bit of naivety when it comes to understanding just how much work goes into their new releases. This is CB after all - they make an effort to playtest and balance and if this leads to a longer lead time for new releases then I'm all for it. We've all seen the alternative...

em, no it is not Paradiso N3 is Paradiso N3, whatever name the new book has it will be the new book.

I'm am choosing to believe the ????? in November is a new Hospitaller box to go along with Joan.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:


Acheron Falls is Paradiso N3 - it is and always has been the working title for the updated campaign book. The original Paradiso book was amazing so I'm ridiculously excited for the new campaign system, no matter what sectorials make it into the book.

As PS said, nope. It has been the working title for the book after Paradiso since at least when Paradiso released. (I started playing right before Paradiso released), and will cover events in the rest of the Human Sphere -- so go the rumors I've heard. If anything it was/will be a sequel to Human Sphere. Some of the hints that CB has shown with the Wotan campaign should give an idea about those events. Expect something about Svalarheim in Acheron Falls -- maybe a campaign? And the sectorials left out of Paradiso N3.

No matter. I would like for the game to be "completed" in the next book. It would free CB to expand the Infinity milieu in other ways ... maybe a campaign box for Svalarheim, for example. Something akin to Icestorm. Background, scenarios. maybe some terrain. Cool new minis...

While I WISH Paradiso N3 had morphed into AF so I could FINALLY have a Jotum in a Sectorial, I don't believe this is the case!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Micky wrote:
Kinda think a lot of CA players will use the Pneamarch as a Nexus Hacker since it looks so similar in design.

Hell I'll probably do that.

Why bother?

The Combi Rifle variant is what the Hacker profile has.

Because it'll be on sale this year.

Also it may come in handy later on - we've heard that the Onyx specops will be based on the Nexus Op

It's nice to finally see what the actual Ur look like. I like seeing more aliens in the CA.

 Barzam wrote:
It's nice to finally see what the actual Ur look like. I like seeing more aliens in the CA.

He's not actually an Ur, just an emissary for them.

 .Mikes. wrote:
I'm am choosing to believe the ????? in November is a new Hospitaller box to go along with Joan.

That would be sweet. Is there more than the one sculpt currently for them?

Just the two at the moment. The newer, 'the floor is lava' HMG:



And the super old one:

PsychoticStorm wrote:em, no it is not Paradiso N3 is Paradiso N3, whatever name the new book has it will be the new book.

Red Harvest wrote:

As PS said, nope. It has been the working title for the book after Paradiso since at least when Paradiso released. (I started playing right before Paradiso released), and will cover events in the rest of the Human Sphere -- so go the rumors I've heard. If anything it was/will be a sequel to Human Sphere. Some of the hints that CB has shown with the Wotan campaign should give an idea about those events. Expect something about Svalarheim in Acheron Falls -- maybe a campaign? And the sectorials left out of Paradiso N3.

No matter. I would like for the game to be "completed" in the next book. It would free CB to expand the Infinity milieu in other ways ... maybe a campaign box for Svalarheim, for example. Something akin to Icestorm. Background, scenarios. maybe some terrain. Cool new minis...

Seeing as we're being pedantic... as far as we know [and none of this has been confirmed] 'Acheron Falls' is the working title for the story arc that will be split over two books, the first of which is the Paradiso update, which will include new sectorials such as Tunguska, Invincible Army, Vedic etc. That's what I meant by Acheron Falls being the working title for the new campaign book. Obviously I should have clarified.

No, Infinity was always envisioned as 3 trilogies of 3 books each, Paradiso is the 3rd book of the first trilogy, working title "Acheron falls", is the first of the second trilogy.

Acheron Falls and CPN3 are different projects and always have been. Acheron Falls was in the works before even N3 as far as I remember, but they didn't have plans to update CP to N3 from the start. Acheron Falls became a 2 book project at some stage because of the size, and then when they decided to do CPN3 they said they would release some of the sectorials in there instead of waiting for Acheron Falls. That's how I understand it if I remember rightly.

PsychoticStorm wrote:No, Infinity was always envisioned as 3 trilogies of 3 books each, Paradiso is the 3rd book of the first trilogy, working title "Acheron falls", is the first of the second trilogy.

ImAGeek wrote:Acheron Falls and CPN3 are different projects and always have been. Acheron Falls was in the works before even N3 as far as I remember, but they didn't have plans to update CP to N3 from the start. Acheron Falls became a 2 book project at some stage because of the size, and then when they decided to do CPN3 they said they would release some of the sectorials in there instead of waiting for Acheron Falls. That's how I understand it if I remember rightly.

Any chance you could link me your sources as clearly I've missed something here? In the meantime check out this video at 10:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z8vvB5FjAo

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

PsychoticStorm wrote:No, Infinity was always envisioned as 3 trilogies of 3 books each, Paradiso is the 3rd book of the first trilogy, working title "Acheron falls", is the first of the second trilogy.

ImAGeek wrote:Acheron Falls and CPN3 are different projects and always have been. Acheron Falls was in the works before even N3 as far as I remember, but they didn't have plans to update CP to N3 from the start. Acheron Falls became a 2 book project at some stage because of the size, and then when they decided to do CPN3 they said they would release some of the sectorials in there instead of waiting for Acheron Falls. That's how I understand it if I remember rightly.

Any chance you could link me your sources as clearly I've missed something here? In the meantime check out this video at 10:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z8vvB5FjAo

That video is from last year. Acheron Falls has been talked about for years, before N3 came out.
Here's a link from 2014, when N3 came out, that's talking about the 'much anticipated' Acheron Falls, so it must've been talked about before that.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
No, Infinity was always envisioned as 3 trilogies of 3 books each, Paradiso is the 3rd book of the first trilogy, working title "Acheron falls", is the first of the second trilogy.

The last I heard of that was way back in second edition, before the game got popular. The idea also had factions/sectorials becoming redundant or emerging in a sort of historical setting as they were defeated or came to be.

While I have no inside information, I wouldn't be shocked if they shelved this 'trilogy of trilogies' idea simply based on the game being very popular now, and a quick way to dissatisfied customers is to say their stuff is no longer valid in a new edition (or even story arc), as they found out with the Exrah.

The core idea of evolving the setting is probably still the goal, but the original idea was pretty unfeasible from a commercial standpoint.

ImAGeek wrote: Acheron Falls and CPN3 are different projects and always have been

That looks like it says Campaign Paradiso on the left of the picture to me.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

ImAGeek wrote: Acheron Falls and CPN3 are different projects and always have been

That looks like it says Campaign Paradiso on the left of the picture to me.

It also has a game of noughts and crosses going on, which even with the most tenuous of links only leads you to the Tic-Tac-Toe ITS mission.

Basically, I'm not taking anything that was written on that presentation's slides as meaning much as regards the company's direction or products.

It does. It doesn't negate what we've heard. Acheron Falls was planned well before N3 even. It was the Ficzone seminar Bostria gave in April(?) 2014, when he announced N3, that he mentioned that it was the work they were doing on the AF that convinced them they needed N3, and so they paused work on AF to produce N3.

Gutier mentioned the 3 trilogies in a Q&A session some years ago. It is somewhere on the Infinity Forum, which is currently crapping itself in various ways. Searches return a 504 error, which means I cannot find a link. I believe it is in the same Q&A where Bostria discussed the Numair and Mukhtair for Haqq. It was sometime in the summer of 2013. You can try searching. Maybe you'll have better luck.

I do not think there has been any mention of trilogies since then.

Tarik has a new skill called "Fatality" that increases his BS weapons damage, apparently.

Mentioned here.

 Chillreaper wrote:


Basically, I'm not taking anything that was written on that presentation's slides as meaning much as regards the company's direction or products.

Other than the Red Veil expansion box [#10] and Aristea! [#6] that have both now been realised?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Chillreaper wrote:


Basically, I'm not taking anything that was written on that presentation's slides as meaning much as regards the company's direction or products.

Other than the Red Veil expansion box [#10] and Aristea! [#6] that have both now been realised?

Sorry, didn't mean that the seminar presentation meant nothing (although I guess that it could have looked that way!), just that it doesn't mean that it's a roadmap of things that CB are going to do and include in everything in the future.

The trilogy of trilogies... turns out Bostria discussed it at a GenCon seminar, here's a link http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/18083-gencon-2013-infinity-seminar-video/?page=1 to the forum post with it. I think this is the seminar. I don't recall it being the 2012 seminar.

"Fatality" eh? Moar Rulz. >:| I'd like CB to announce the "Ya Basta" rule.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tarik has a new skill called "Fatality" that increases his BS weapons damage, apparently.

Mentioned here.

It's really starting to feel like we're hitting special rule saturation at this point (okay, we hit it long ago... but y'all know what I mean). I mean, sure, bonus damage is something the rules don't cover in a special skill, but is it something they need to cover?

Especially since the background explanation for this one (hitting the vitals apparently) is something that could have been covered by a level of marksmanship (or if it works in close combat, levels of martial arts). Hell, if Marksmaship-X wasn't already in there (as highly situational and usually useless as it is) then this could have easily replaced it (and possibly been a bit flashier, like granting AP ammo type or even K1 or something actually mildly interesting).

Full Auto is also sounding kind of like a rule we didn't really need as well. Basically a way of producing solo rambos that can hit B5 without tacking on a link team. I'll be surprised if we don't see at least one Spitfire/HMG-wielding HI with this rule lumbering around when CPN3 hits.

It's especially odd given how many special rules we currently have that are underutilized and basically unique to a handful of models. When they introduce new special rules, I'd prefer them to be interesting game changers instead of mild stat buffs.

Things like Chain of Command, Holo, and the expansion of the Infiltrate/CH skills we got in the original HS were great since they changed the game up in massive ways. Stuff like Mechanical Transmutation (which needs to get used more) facilitated unit types that simply could not exist before. The simple, bread-and-butter special rules were handled in core. If we need more, then make them interesting new mechanics so that they at least have some kind of unique impact on play. But throwing out things that boil down to some stat buffs just doesn't seem necessary at this stage in the game's life.

So while Fatality and Full Auto are (hopefully) at least simple, they also feel kind of tacked on and unneeded from what we can see so far. They don't create units that were unheard of before, they just appear to be stat boosts to be put on run-of-the-mill beat sticks to make them a bit beat-sticky-er. The current, gigantic list of special rules is already rife with the possibility of unit types we've never seen before, why waste ink on rules that don't reshape how we play?

I'll definitely hold final judgement until I see the rules in print, but I was kind of hoping we'd seen the end of more special rules getting implemented and instead started to see them fill out stuff with interesting combinations of rules we already have.

That's exactly what I meant when I used the emoticon >:|

The new missions for the 2 expansion packs are downloadable here https://infinitythegame.com/resources/downloads Looks like 4 new missions per expansion.

Eh, Infinity is already Looking Up Rules The Game.

Everything is the same aside from their special rules so new special rules are always going to happen.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tarik has a new skill called "Fatality" that increases his BS weapons damage, apparently.

Mentioned here.

It's really starting to feel like we're hitting special rule saturation at this point (okay, we hit it long ago... but y'all know what I mean). I mean, sure, bonus damage is something the rules don't cover in a special skill, but is it something they need to cover?

Especially since the background explanation for this one (hitting the vitals apparently) is something that could have been covered by a level of marksmanship (or if it works in close combat, levels of martial arts). Hell, if Marksmaship-X wasn't already in there (as highly situational and usually useless as it is) then this could have easily replaced it (and possibly been a bit flashier, like granting AP ammo type or even K1 or something actually mildly interesting).

Full Auto is also sounding kind of like a rule we didn't really need as well. Basically a way of producing solo rambos that can hit B5 without tacking on a link team. I'll be surprised if we don't see at least one Spitfire/HMG-wielding HI with this rule lumbering around when CPN3 hits.

It's especially odd given how many special rules we currently have that are underutilized and basically unique to a handful of models. When they introduce new special rules, I'd prefer them to be interesting game changers instead of mild stat buffs.

Things like Chain of Command, Holo, and the expansion of the Infiltrate/CH skills we got in the original HS were great since they changed the game up in massive ways. Stuff like Mechanical Transmutation (which needs to get used more) facilitated unit types that simply could not exist before. The simple, bread-and-butter special rules were handled in core. If we need more, then make them interesting new mechanics so that they at least have some kind of unique impact on play. But throwing out things that boil down to some stat buffs just doesn't seem necessary at this stage in the game's life.

So while Fatality and Full Auto are (hopefully) at least simple, they also feel kind of tacked on and unneeded from what we can see so far. They don't create units that were unheard of before, they just appear to be stat boosts to be put on run-of-the-mill beat sticks to make them a bit beat-sticky-er. The current, gigantic list of special rules is already rife with the possibility of unit types we've never seen before, why waste ink on rules that don't reshape how we play?

I'll definitely hold final judgement until I see the rules in print, but I was kind of hoping we'd seen the end of more special rules getting implemented and instead started to see them fill out stuff with interesting combinations of rules we already have.

There are definitely more than enough obscure rules. Enough is enough already.

CB would serve us better trying to make new combinations of existing rules with different profiles.

Many of the additions since N3 have only homogenized sectorials to make them all play more conventionally.

Hey, it could be worse, it could be Knight's Batman game where all those special rules are scattered across four rule books, except for some that only come with certain models, might be called different names in the different sources depending on translations, what they do tends to get changed by FAQs, and there's no online wiki or resource that consolidates all this info.

 AduroT wrote:
Hey, it could be worse, it could be Knight's Batman game where all those special rules are scattered across four rule books, except for some that only come with certain models, might be called different names in the different sources depending on translations, what they do tends to get changed by FAQs, and there's no online wiki or resource that consolidates all this info.

Jeez, that sounds like 7th edition of 40k..

 AduroT wrote:
Hey, it could be worse, it could be Knight's Batman game where all those special rules are scattered across four rule books, except for some that only come with certain models, might be called different names in the different sources depending on translations, what they do tends to get changed by FAQs, and there's no online wiki or resource that consolidates all this info.

That's what it was like pre-N3 and if I'm going to be honest, can definitely be the case when you're looking at the time shortly before or immediately after a book releases...

That said, looks like Blackjacks are getting revealed at GenCon. Mayacast is saying CB has a "special surprise" for the Americans at GenCon.

 Kanluwen wrote:


That said, looks like Blackjacks are getting revealed at GenCon. Mayacast is saying CB has a "special surprise" for the Americans at GenCon.

I hope not. Trolling USAriadna players is new favourite pastime.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


That said, looks like Blackjacks are getting revealed at GenCon. Mayacast is saying CB has a "special surprise" for the Americans at GenCon.

I hope not. Trolling USAriadna players is new favourite pastime.

USAriadna players troll themselves with constant speculation every month that they're getting something CB has said they won't get for a long time, then getting pissed off that they didn't get the thing CB told them they won't get for a long time.

Be nice if they did fast track Blackjacks though just so the whining can st...

Sorry. I almost finished that sentence without bursting out laughing.

 AduroT wrote:
Hey, it could be worse, it could be Knight's Batman game where all those special rules are scattered across four rule books, except for some that only come with certain models, might be called different names in the different sources depending on translations, what they do tends to get changed by FAQs, and there's no online wiki or resource that consolidates all this info.

Batman cards are the most disorganized thing I've ever played. Just the stupid health stat in the middle of the stats that you allocate Willpower to hurts my brain every time. Then you've got the random collection of keywords, half of which seem to just be things that change what models they work with in crew building and have no in game effect. You mentioned the rules scattered across 4 rulebooks but didn't mention that they're in 4 separate sections within each book with zero indication which section a rule belongs to (except that one with red text for some reason) or even important things like how much willpower you had to allocate to which stat to use the stupid thing. I've spreadsheeted out my characters just to sort the abilities a bit and the dumb thing is; none of it is anywhere near complicated enough to warrant that much gibberish. The only game I can think of that is anywhere close that obtuse is Monsterpocalypse.

Infinity generally does a good job with, if nothing else, organizing the profiles in an intuitive matter. MayaNet really helps but overall but Army is pretty good as well. I cannot fathom figuring the game out without one or the other, but for the most part I don't feel like I can check a profile on a model in the middle of a game and figure it out pretty cleanly on the first or second activation. Honestly though, I just wanted to vent about how badly Batman needs better card designs.

 -Loki- wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


That said, looks like Blackjacks are getting revealed at GenCon. Mayacast is saying CB has a "special surprise" for the Americans at GenCon.

I hope not. Trolling USAriadna players is new favourite pastime.

USAriadna players troll themselves with constant speculation every month that they're getting something CB has said they won't get for a long time, then getting pissed off that they didn't get the thing CB told them they won't get for a long time.

To be fair, it's now no longer "it won't be around for a long time". Bostria's been avoiding commenting on the Blackjack for awhile.
If the Intel Grunt hadn't already been revealed, I would think that was the thing before Blackjacks.
I would also think that it was a new unit for the Kazaks...but CB has been continually tying GenCon to USARF releases for the past few years.

Be nice if they did fast track Blackjacks though just so the whining can st...

Sorry. I almost finished that sentence without bursting out laughing.

It'll be like the day Yu Jing is happy with whatever new thing gets added into the Imperial Service Sectorial...

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tarik has a new skill called "Fatality" that increases his BS weapons damage, apparently.

Mentioned here.

Really not a fan.

Having a keyword for increasing Burst or Damage is fine. It's a rather straightforward and intuitive mechanic that allows units to equip standard equipment and yet still remain special in some way.

Much better than releasing a completely new weapon profile.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Having a keyword for increasing Burst or Damage is fine. It's a rather straightforward and intuitive mechanic that allows units to equip standard equipment and yet still remain special in some way.

Much better than releasing a completely new weapon profile.

I disagree. I would rather have seen "Full Auto" be added onto weapons then become a leveled skill that will probably be on a handful of units and become a thing that will be basically unchanged until the next iteration of the Campaign: Paradiso book.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Having a keyword for increasing Burst or Damage is fine. It's a rather straightforward and intuitive mechanic that allows units to equip standard equipment and yet still remain special in some way.

Much better than releasing a completely new weapon profile.

I disagree. I would rather have seen "Full Auto" be added onto weapons then become a leveled skill that will probably be on a handful of units and become a thing that will be basically unchanged until the next iteration of the Campaign: Paradiso book.

So rather than having a single intuitive skill, you'd prefer they retcon existing weapons to have a keyword that would do nothing for the vast majority of troops and yet still add a keyword skill to troop profiles anyways?

Disagree.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Having a keyword for increasing Burst or Damage is fine. It's a rather straightforward and intuitive mechanic that allows units to equip standard equipment and yet still remain special in some way.

Much better than releasing a completely new weapon profile.

I disagree. I would rather have seen "Full Auto" be added onto weapons then become a leveled skill that will probably be on a handful of units and become a thing that will be basically unchanged until the next iteration of the Campaign: Paradiso book.

So rather than having a single intuitive skill, you'd prefer they retcon existing weapons to have a keyword that would do nothing for the vast majority of troops and yet still add a keyword skill to troop profiles anyways?

Disagree.

Except we don't "have a single intuitive skill" with Full Auto.

We have a skill that currently has two levels which do two things(L1 grants +1 Burst during your Active turn and L2 grants +1 Burst and a -3 mod to the enemy during Active or Reactive in FtF rolls) that really have been asked for/suggested elsewhere as modifiers to Suppression Fire for certain weapons...and has, so far, been stated to be on just one unit.

I'm sure it will be on some TAK units, RTF units, Varuna units, etc...but then the question remains why do they not just make it a weapon attribute and retroactively apply it to the other Sectorials and profiles?

That's the issue that I have with this. It's an easier way to spread these skills around by updating the weapons table and applying the effects to the weapons, and then adjust the weapons and their availability based upon that--we even saw that with the launch of N3 and many AD troops losing HMGs and instead gaining Spitfires.


That's all my opinion, of course.

Because they do not want this to be based on the weapons, but based on the units, same goes with fatality it is a way to have at basic level a +1 DAM weapon without creating yet another weapon.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Because they do not want this to be based on the weapons, but based on the units, same goes with fatality it is a way to have at basic level a +1 DAM weapon without creating yet another weapon.

It's a way, at basic level, to have a model with a +1 DAM weapon.

Yes, that is what it is.

Either way, new weapon or new skill, you need to remember more rules. +1DAM Spitfire could have been a Heavy Spitfire. But then you need to remember when a unit has a Heavy Spitfire rather than a Spitfire, and remember the difference. Just like now you need to remember when a model has Fatality, and what it does.

On the plus side, I hope they take this chance to test Fatality to TAGs, even for a price increase. I've always been annoyed that TAGs have these weapons 4-5 times the size of the weapons carried by infantry, even bigger than those carried by super heavy infantry, and yet the guns are just normal guns.

*cough*Seraph*cough*

Personally i find the AP rifle profile more appealing with FatalityL2. Its more of a toolbox killer with D14 AP rifle, effectively a boarding shotgun whit his D14 light shotgun and a D14 Nanupulser. And on top of that he also hits hard in CC with his D14 DA weapon + one D14 BTS.

Besides the old sculpt looks allot better to.

Gotta say, I'm not a huge fan of Fatality.
The "fluff" justification is very weak, why only Haqq supersoldiers and not Morat Supersoldiers? Not walking supercomputers with expert medical knowledge and state-of-the-art targeting systems (EI Aspects, Aleph aspects etc.)?

I'm not good enough at maths to figure out exactly how it interacts with the F2F mechanic but I've got to say doubling the crit likelihood feels intuitively a bad thing. Maybe if it applied to low burst weapons I'd be happier, but the fact it's on a Spitfire just seems too much.

And CB were more than happy to invent the AP Spitfire for the Gorgos, there really isn't a reason that I can see that they couldn't just invent a new Spitfire for Tariq as well; it's not like they couldn't just create a "Mk.15" (Dam 15 spitfire...) and give it him.

I like there is both a hat and no hat option.

That's a bit of a letdown, unless there's going to be an alternate head included?

Was hoping that it would actually match the render:



and honestly didn't think that it wouldn't...

EDIT:

I probably should have watched the video!

EDIT2:

Or just read all of PS' post!