I am SICK AND TIRED of the fact that everytime GW reveals a specialist model and doesn't specifically spell RESIN out in enormous red bold letters at the top of the article, a bunch of people come running and screaming nabout the fact that it totally might be plastic this time, guys, despite the fact there's literally negative evidence for the fact. They add bloody nothing to the discussion and whatever point they have is destroyed by a few seconds of thinking.
For once? I'm not the one who regularly screams the house down in their forum posts. The only reason you get away with it is because the forum moderation on Dakka are far more chilled out than on the majority of other forums I've been on. Seriously, you would have been banned long before now.
Also, Its not my problem that Warhammer Community can't be bothered to state if its a Forgeworld release or not. Tough.
tauist wrote: My hunch says the model has too many injection molding witness marks to be a resin model. Seems kinda low detailed too. Plastic model most probably.
The amount of copium being huffed around these parts is utterly insane.
I had to google that up. Copium huh? cute.
I was merely speculating that since resin wasn't mentioned, the model might be plastic. There is nothing there to suggest a resin sculpt (skewed bolter barrel while most resin barrels have perfect barrel holes). There is a high probability that I am wrong. In any case, no skin off my back because
1) I don't collect EC nor ever intend to
2) I buy models based on looks and do not care if its resin or plastic (unless it's a large model like a Vehicle or piece of terrain).
Regardless of whether its resin or plastic, we can all agree that the model has witness marks, suggesting suboptimal finish & assembly, and the bolter hole seems hand drilled.
There has not been a single God-damned legion-specific plastic release so far! SO WHY, WHY WOULD THIS PRAETOR BE ONE?
You could have a hunch it's made of bloody hand-carved wood and it'd be as valid of a """"""hunch""""" (read; baseless hopium)
Oh do be quiet.
If you had actually read my post I didn't come to a conclusion on it being a plastic or resin release, only my opinion of the model and why I'd dip my hand in my wallet. Besides, I don't know what GW's plans are for the Horus Heresy release schedule. If you're so well informed then good for you.
In terms of their plans, as per their big Heresy reveal stream thing they did, legion specific stuff is staying resin.
It would be much easier for everyone if they just said in the article. They usually clear it up on social media when people ask umpteen times afterwards so I dunno why they’ve not learnt.
ImAGeek wrote: It would be much easier for everyone if they just said in the article. They usually clear it up on social media when people ask umpteen times afterwards so I dunno why they’ve not learnt.
They learned that if they don't say it they get free social media engagement?
Also, Its not my problem that Warhammer Community can't be bothered to state if its a Forgeworld release or not. Tough.
They don't say that for the same reason the weatherman doesn't start his broadcast by telling you the sun rose in the East this morning. These legion-specific upgrades have always been resin and will be for the foreseeable future. They tell people this in FB comment replies daily, and gaming events every time they go. "Are these plastic?" "No, and currently there are no plans for legion upgrades to be plastic". Yet somehow, every single preview, we have people asking "hurr durr, will these be plastic?! reeeee!" You guys are supposed to put the glue on your models, not huff it.
I think the recent generation of digitally designed Forge World Horus Heresy models are much cleaner and better sculpts than most of their older sculpts, which usually have a lot of messy spots and are full of proportional inconsistencies, so I'm all for it
Wish they'll redo some of the older Legion-specific units. And some more generic specialized Consuls would be nice.
Also, Its not my problem that Warhammer Community can't be bothered to state if its a Forgeworld release or not. Tough.
They don't say that for the same reason the weatherman doesn't start his broadcast by telling you the sun rose in the East this morning. These legion-specific upgrades have always been resin and will be for the foreseeable future. They tell people this in FB comment replies daily, and gaming events every time they go. "Are these plastic?" "No, and currently there are no plans for legion upgrades to be plastic". Yet somehow, every single preview, we have people asking "hurr durr, will these be plastic?! reeeee!" You guys are supposed to put the glue on your models, not huff it.
Well they say give monkey enough time and they will write shakespeare. Ask if it's plastlc often enough and quantum effect causes plastic version appear out of another dimension? As that's only way this would be plastic.
I don't care if it is resin or plastic. I will definitely get at least 1, possibly two for my EC force. I am absolutely loving the attention my loyalist ECs are getting.
Also, Its not my problem that Warhammer Community can't be bothered to state if its a Forgeworld release or not. Tough.
They don't say that for the same reason the weatherman doesn't start his broadcast by telling you the sun rose in the East this morning. These legion-specific upgrades have always been resin and will be for the foreseeable future. They tell people this in FB comment replies daily, and gaming events every time they go. "Are these plastic?" "No, and currently there are no plans for legion upgrades to be plastic". Yet somehow, every single preview, we have people asking "hurr durr, will these be plastic?! reeeee!" You guys are supposed to put the glue on your models, not huff it.
This might be surprising but not everyone looks at the GW/FW facebook pages. Well done to those who do...
I don't have a problem if its already been established if the releases are legion specific, but a quick "its already been confirmed" will suffice rather than all the drama we've just witnessed.
Would help if this same thing didn't come up every single release and by same guys...and come next legion release same guys go "is it plasticy" again. And again. And again. And again.
They might not read gw/fw fb. Nor do they read replies here. Or at least remember answer after hour.
tneva82 wrote: Well they say give monkey enough time and they will write shakespeare. Ask if it's plastlc often enough and quantum effect causes plastic version appear out of another dimension? As that's only way this would be plastic.
I can't speak for Tauist, but once again I didn't ask if it were plastic or not; merely saying that I'd buy it if it were. The new model is that good.
If I had written "this is an outrage and Forgeworld should be closed down immediately!" I could see your point of view here, but I was coming from a point of "thats a shame".
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tneva82 wrote: Would help if this same thing didn't come up every single release and by same guys...and come next legion release same guys go "is it plasticy" again. And again. And again. And again.
They might not read gw/fw fb. Nor do they read replies here. Or at least remember answer after hour.
Once again, all they have to do is declare it as a Forgeworld product. Requires no effort at all.
Nice, a starcraft model ! Oh wait, no, it's a 30k Emperor's Children ? Well, I guess I've never seen an Emperor's Children before then...
The EC praetors are the only ones that I dislike, which is a shame seeing as I collect them
There is nothing right with them
It's just exhausting, especially to people who play specialist games. Every time a new thing is previewed for Necromunda or Titanicus, or now HH, I have to wade through 50% of the comments about "is it plastic" to see actual discussion about the release. I don't even understand why it's such a huge deal. If you're incapable of using superglue or building resin models, this probably isn't the hobby for you. Most companies outside of GW require building resin/metal models. Most kickstarters are resin. Games like Epic are basically only alive because of 3D printed RESIN models. I really don't understand people in a modeling hobby throwing a temper tantrum in every comment section over a model being resin, especially when all the previous releases of the same type are in resin. You might as well be mad at cold weather in England in December.
stahly wrote: I think the recent generation of digitally designed Forge World Horus Heresy models are much cleaner and better sculpts than most of their older sculpts, which usually have a lot of messy spots and are full of proportional inconsistencies, so I'm all for it
Wish they'll redo some of the older Legion-specific units. And some more generic specialized Consuls would be nice.
I wouldn’t mind them redoing some of the earlier legion specific stuff, but there’s some (like the Emperors Children stuff specifically) that I actually much prefer to a lot of the newer stuff and don’t think would come out as well if they redid them.
Toofast wrote: It's just exhausting, especially to people who play specialist games. Every time a new thing is previewed for Necromunda or Titanicus, or now HH, I have to wade through 50% of the comments about "is it plastic" to see actual discussion about the release. I don't even understand why it's such a huge deal. If you're incapable of using superglue or building resin models, this probably isn't the hobby for you. Most companies outside of GW require building resin/metal models. Most kickstarters are resin. Games like Epic are basically only alive because of 3D printed RESIN models. I really don't understand people in a modeling hobby throwing a temper tantrum in every comment section over a model being resin, especially when all the previous releases of the same type are in resin. You might as well be mad at cold weather in England in December.
Can't speak for others but for me its the price. But it is what it is, and really only have issue with the Titanicus range but thats beyond the topic for this thread.
Look, here's where I stand with everyone else here; I won't comment on future legion-specific releases.
Toofast wrote: It's just exhausting, especially to people who play specialist games. Every time a new thing is previewed for Necromunda or Titanicus, or now HH, I have to wade through 50% of the comments about "is it plastic" to see actual discussion about the release. I don't even understand why it's such a huge deal. If you're incapable of using superglue or building resin models, this probably isn't the hobby for you. Most companies outside of GW require building resin/metal models. Most kickstarters are resin. Games like Epic are basically only alive because of 3D printed RESIN models. I really don't understand people in a modeling hobby throwing a temper tantrum in every comment section over a model being resin, especially when all the previous releases of the same type are in resin. You might as well be mad at cold weather in England in December.
Oh it's not really the resin, or the glue. It's Forgeworld. Bite me ten times and all that.
godardc wrote: Nice, a starcraft model ! Oh wait, no, it's a 30k Emperor's Children ? Well, I guess I've never seen an Emperor's Children before then...
The EC praetors are the only ones that I dislike, which is a shame seeing as I collect them
There is nothing right with them
How in the cornbread hell does that Praetor look like it's from Starcraft
Mr_Rose wrote: It’s oddly un-detailed for a resin model. I’d expect finer/sharper edges and more undercuts.
That's true, but I think it's still an excellent miniature. I don't see any major lack of undercuts anywhere that causes distortion, though.
Almost looks like this model was made so that it *could* be done in plastic with the same CAD file--the ropes and cloth don't appear to have undercuts, but they're done in such a way you don't really miss them. I wonder if the idea is that they might transition some of these in the future if sales justify it?
This might be the nail in the coffin that forces me to do EC along with my Iron Hands
Toofast wrote: It's just exhausting, especially to people who play specialist games. Every time a new thing is previewed for Necromunda or Titanicus, or now HH, I have to wade through 50% of the comments about "is it plastic" to see actual discussion about the release. I don't even understand why it's such a huge deal. If you're incapable of using superglue or building resin models, this probably isn't the hobby for you. Most companies outside of GW require building resin/metal models. Most kickstarters are resin. Games like Epic are basically only alive because of 3D printed RESIN models. I really don't understand people in a modeling hobby throwing a temper tantrum in every comment section over a model being resin, especially when all the previous releases of the same type are in resin. You might as well be mad at cold weather in England in December.
Can't speak for others but for me its the price. But it is what it is, and really only have issue with the Titanicus range but thats beyond the topic for this thread.
Look, here's where I stand with everyone else here; I won't comment on future legion-specific releases.
People are free to discuss what they want, but you would add more to the discussion by closing your eyes and banging your forehead on the keyboard a few times than asking if a Titanicus or HH upgrade is resin
ImAGeek wrote: It would be much easier for everyone if they just said in the article. They usually clear it up on social media when people ask umpteen times afterwards so I dunno why they’ve not learnt.
I agree, it's so stupid. It's always asked. Just tell people. It's not fooling anyone into buying it.
People are free to discuss what they want, but you would add more to the discussion by closing your eyes and banging your forehead on the keyboard a few times than asking if a Titanicus or HH upgrade is resin
How in the cornbread hell does that Praetor look like it's from Starcraft
I was getting a Horus helmet vibe, from Stargate. Actually, that would be cool if Djimon Hounsou was under that helmet!
Apparently no one here reads classics, because to me it looks like 1:1 copy of this design and no one suggested it yet:
Spoiler:
tauist wrote: My hunch says the model has too many injection molding witness marks to be a resin model. Seems kinda low detailed too. Plastic model most probably.
I have no idea why people keep repeating this (subconscious price tag remorse?) because in last 10-15 years, 95% of low detail, horrible inflow ports, foot thick capes, ugly paintjobs on GW products were all resin. Plastic doesn't have these problems, yes, even painters are far superior than FW ones for some reason
ImAGeek wrote: It would be much easier for everyone if they just said in the article. They usually clear it up on social media when people ask umpteen times afterwards so I dunno why they’ve not learnt.
I agree, it's so stupid. It's always asked. Just tell people. It's not fooling anyone into buying it.
They aren't try:ng to fool anybody as they assume customers have common sense
ImAGeek wrote: It would be much easier for everyone if they just said in the article. They usually clear it up on social media when people ask umpteen times afterwards so I dunno why they’ve not learnt.
I agree, it's so stupid. It's always asked. Just tell people. It's not fooling anyone into buying it.
They aren't trying to fool anybody as they assume customers have common sense
Really? If we had common sense we'd not be buying over expensive models for a poor rules system when we had a pile of shame already.
I thought the GW view was that we had the opposite of common sense.
Many individual marines were granted the honour of bearing the Aquila, yes. For a Praetor or other ranking officer in a Legion it seems appropriate that they might have stood out enough to get one.
I could be misremembering something, but I thought it was specifically the double headed eagle that was unique to the Emperor’s Children. Single headed eagles, such as Garro’s chest piece, were used by others.
Upswept wings is the Palantine Aquila, straight wings is the Imperial Aquila.
The former was used more commonly as the Heresy went on as a sign of loyalty to the Emperor whereas the latter was stamped everywhere anyway so it didn't really mean that much.
Gert wrote: Upswept wings is the Palantine Aquila, straight wings is the Imperial Aquila.
The former was used more commonly as the Heresy went on as a sign of loyalty to the Emperor whereas the latter was stamped everywhere anyway so it didn't really mean that much.
The one thing the Emperor's Children were also explicitly allowed to do was wear Aquilas on their chest plates. Other Legions could wear Aquilas as honour badges or as production stamps on equipment but only the IIIrd were allowed to wear it on their armour.
So for reference the Palantine Aquila looks like this:
Spoiler:
And the Imperial Aquila has straight wings like these:
Spoiler:
The third example still has raised wings but they aren't curved like the first. In fairness it does get very confusing, especially when using the 40k Wiki which is trash and even Lex is a bit outdated on the Aquila page.
Looking at the new weapons sprue for the Contemptor (Kheres etc etc) are there no shoulder mounts? Thus making it useless if buying one of those and pairing it with a FW chapter specific Contemptor?
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Looking at the new weapons sprue for the Contemptor (Kheres etc etc) are there no shoulder mounts? Thus making it useless if buying one of those and pairing it with a FW chapter specific Contemptor?
I wonder if they're selling the 2 sprues together as a set?
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Looking at the new weapons sprue for the Contemptor (Kheres etc etc) are there no shoulder mounts? Thus making it useless if buying one of those and pairing it with a FW chapter specific Contemptor?
I wonder if they're selling the 2 sprues together as a set?
Good call, I had not considered that. I wonder what the price point will be to make it a worthwhile purchase over the £36 whole plastic Contemptor.
Yeah, it is a bit hit on miss on which appear to have the shoulder hinge and then actually either do or dont. I have a SoH FW dread due for delivery so will find out about that one in a few days.
The plot thickens, the Contemptor weapon sprues are being sold individually.
There is also an "Ultimate loadout" Contemptor and Leviathan option with 2 of each weapons sprue. Assuming that is just a webstore bundle and not a different sku for FLGS release.
Does raise the issue of there being no shoulder joint bits on weapon sprue 2 though, an odd choice to leave off such a small part when you assume the idea was to replace the retired FW resin weapons. There will be some confused and disappointed hobbyists out there.
Daft given they got it right with the shoulder joint being on both the Ranged and close combat Leviathan sprues.
The preorder article last week pretty clearly stated re: Contemptor weapons that "you’ll be able to pre-order the weapon frames separately". The way they've set up the second sprue is pretty bizarre.
Still a few hours until preorders go up here, so plenty of time to agonise about whether to bother buying a Sicaran. Rules are pretty lackluster in 2.0 and I'm tempted to wait to see if they sell the Omega turret in plastic/separately as a resin piece. The baseline Sicaran is such an iconic tank though.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: The plot thickens, the Contemptor weapon sprues are being sold individually.
There is also an "Ultimate loadout" Contemptor and Leviathan option with 2 of each weapons sprue. Assuming that is just a webstore bundle and not a different sku for FLGS release.
Does raise the issue of there being no shoulder joint bits on weapon sprue 2 though, an odd choice to leave off such a small part when you assume the idea was to replace the retired FW resin weapons. There will be some confused and disappointed hobbyists out there.
Daft given they got it right with the shoulder joint being on both the Ranged and close combat Leviathan sprues.
Hmmm. I think its because the HH base box comes with weapon frame 1 (and the full kit comes with both). You really can't end up without the shoulders. I don't think the FW weapons are a consideration for this kit or frames at all.
I need to sit down and do some planning (do I need a third contemptor + an extra of sprue 2, or just 2x sprue 2, basically), but this arrangement works for me.
True, but given they retired the resin Contemptor weapons but not the bodies it should have been. And they are not really explicit in explaining it.
Say I buy an Emporers Children resin Dread and 2 of weapon sprue 2 to give it double Kheres...I have all the bits bar the small shoulder joint that attaches the weapon to the shoulder. Bizarre. £74 spent on incomplete kit and you have to turn to 3d printing or sculpt your own.
JWBS wrote: That part you are talking about is very easy to fabricate with plastic tube, I've made some that are near 1:1 copies of the resin bits.
I think though the issue is is that he will spend a large amount of money, ans still have to make a part from plastic tube when a spare set of shoulder joints could be put on the weapon sprues to begin with to avoid all this.
Poor planning I would guess, rather than evil intent.
If I spent that sort of money on any hobby and had to make my own part to use it properly, I would not be impressed.
So, if I want to get all the bells & whistles for my AoD Contemptor, I'll need to buy the Contemptor Dreadnought Weapons Frame 2 and I'll have everything the full separate kit has? Can anyone confirm please
tauist wrote: So, if I want to get all the bells & whistles for my AoD Contemptor, I'll need to buy the Contemptor Dreadnought Weapons Frame 2 and I'll have everything the full separate kit has? Can anyone confirm please
tauist wrote: So, if I want to get all the bells & whistles for my AoD Contemptor, I'll need to buy the Contemptor Dreadnought Weapons Frame 2 and I'll have everything the full separate kit has? Can anyone confirm please
Seems like the arm pieces on the ranged Leviathan have recesses so should be as easy to magnetize as the Contemptor
Guns have the same 4x2mm holes as the Contemptor arms and the Leviathan arm recesses seems to be about 5x1mm
Another interesting titbit is that it sounds like he got this box before the melee version was even announced which makes me think it was supposed to release with the initial wave or shortly after but something happened and it had to be delayed
Another interesting titbit is that he apparently got this box before the melee version was even announced which makes me think it was supposed to release with the initial wave or shortly after but something happened and it had to be delayed
That is odd, weird given that the Liber Hereticus showed off the melee plastic Leviathan (SoH section) and not the ranged one IIRC. Ash did well to sit on that kit for so long.
I am now 3 Contemptor's Closer to a Fury Of The Ancients list after pre ordering this morning.
Have got to laugh at the Contemptor Dreadnought Ultimate Loadout bundle though...£68 GW retail for 1 Dread and 4 weapons frames. Pay an extra £4 and just buy 2 Contemptors for 2 Dreads and 4 weapons frames...absolute no brainer. Or just go to your online retailer of choice and get 2 Dreads for sub £60.
SamusDrake wrote: The mechanicum book is very tempting and might jump in later depending on future releases.
If you ask me (and I appreciate nobody did), it’s a missed opportunity to add some of the 40K Mechanicus kits into the Mechanicum. If anybody should be using the same tech for 10,000 years it’s the Martians. We’re expected to believe that some of their gear comes from the Dark Age of Technology, but it was all in for a service during the Age of Darkness.
As it stands I’ve no interest in collecting marines and no interest in an army of unbelievably expensive resin.
As it stands I’ve no interest in collecting marines and no interest in an army of unbelievably expensive resin.
Honestly, I think horus heresy is probably not for you.
Its like you are standing in line for a consert and say, "man, I have no interest in music"
No really, I’m a big, big fan of the Horus Heresy books. I’ve not read then all, but I must have read around 30 ish of them. My favourite characters are always the ones who aren’t marines though. If there was a cheaper, more plasticy way of collecting Mechanicum or Solar Auxilia, I’d be all over it.
Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia are the two worst options for HH as it stands. Every other army has a plethora of plastic options but those two are FWs babies.
There are some things that can work for Mechanicum but you lose the specific FW aesthetic if you do so and can't fill out a list larger than about 1k points.
A little annoying that the Mechanicum stuff is delayed in the US. They could at least have gone ahead with allowing US customers to preorder the epub book. Not that I have an epub-capable tablet, but it still feels like GW is giving the finger to those who could have gotten it.
beast_gts wrote: How to Paint: World Eaters Leviathan Dreadnought
I don’t usually watch these videos, but I’ve got to say, this is way above their usual standard. A positive move.
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Gert wrote: Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia are the two worst options for HH as it stands. Every other army has a plethora of plastic options but those two are FWs babies.
There are some things that can work for Mechanicum but you lose the specific FW aesthetic if you do so and can't fill out a list larger than about 1k points.
I’m all for Heresy having its own flavour and aesthetic, that’s why I hate the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K so much I just think that maybe Mechanicum should be the one exception. It feels wrong to me that Heresy era Mechanicum and 40K Ad Mech are so very different, when they ought to be very similar. Perhaps even identical.
If they ever get round to plastic Solar Auxilia though, I’m in!
BrookM wrote: Also quite surprised that the Sicaran kit hasn't sold out yet.
It all just depends how many they made.
But also perhaps so many people now have Spartans for their armies they aren't ready for a 2nd largish tank? Or maybe it's not as well liked aesthetically? I know the Sicaran doesn't do much for me, I'd rather have a Predator squadron.
Dreadnought weapon sprues, as well as the CC Levi, seem to be sold out already. Happy to see they made enough Sicarans, as they were still in stock tho!
Does anybody know if the Sicaran Omega turret is available separatly? I would really love one for my dark angels (yay plasma) but I don't want to buy the resin tank as the plastic is available. Searching on the forgeworld page only led my to the complete tank, not the turret
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I’m all for Heresy having its own flavour and aesthetic, that’s why I hate the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K so much I just think that maybe Mechanicum should be the one exception. It feels wrong to me that Heresy era Mechanicum and 40K Ad Mech are so very different, when they ought to be very similar. Perhaps even identical.
I think there needs to be a disconnect between the two factions which we sort of see.
If we look at the lineup for the Mechanicum it's a lot of Dark Age machines that come a lot closer to A.I. and freaky science projects. Many Automata used by the Mechanicum seemed to develop quirks and sometimes things that resembled a primitive personality. They were much more independent of their human masters without being human themselves.
The Mechanicus however, is much more human-based soldiers. Skitarii of many types, Battle Servitors, and only one type of Battle Automata which has its behaviours strictly controlled by data wafers. The armies of the Adeptus Mechanicus more closely resemble the Imperium they are a part of, even if it hordes technology and secrets like the old Mechanicum. There is safety in the limitations of (albeit an advanced) human body.
Obviously there are the Techthralls and the Titan Legion Skitarii but the majority of the HH Mechanicum list is based around non-human units whereas the 40k Mechanicus is almost entirely human-based units.
BrookM wrote: Also quite surprised that the Sicaran kit hasn't sold out yet.
It all just depends how many they made.
But also perhaps so many people now have Spartans for their armies they aren't ready for a 2nd largish tank? Or maybe it's not as well liked aesthetically? I know the Sicaran doesn't do much for me, I'd rather have a Predator squadron.
Leviathan hasn't sold out either and they're very popular in lists.
Thing is, there’ll be folk out there with existing Leviathans and Contemptors snaffling weapon sprues for magnetising, because plastic and resin base chassis are the same fittings, and having a wider choice of weapons was previously prohibitive cost wise.
Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?
At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.
Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.
quote=Mad Doc Grotsnik 805504 11417317 a00f106df055e9a8133247b13632ffbf.png]
Thing is, there’ll be folk out there with existing Leviathans and Contemptors snaffling weapon sprues for magnetising, because plastic and resin base chassis are the same fittings, and having a wider choice of weapons was previously prohibitive cost wise.
This is what I am doing - a friend who rather foolishly ordered two Imperial Fists resin contemptors while INCREDIBLY drunk (on a whim until he actually settled on the Word Barers lol) and I am buying them off him while using magnetised plastic weapons due to them being both cheaper and easier to work with.
I also did a review & unboxing for the ranged weapons Leviathan Dreadnought. There are high-res pictures of all the sprues and I also give some advice for magnetising the arms, as the close combat arms use different shoulder pieces as the ranged weapon arms:
The overall build is also really solid, something it has in common with the Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought, despite the Rhino having a fair amount of hollow space inside.
And yes, MM Deimos just seem to make sense! Cheap enough to be viable, and one of those odd threats to your opponent, who can only sort of-ish afford to ignore it. But to engage it risks them arguably wasting firepower.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I’m all for Heresy having its own flavour and aesthetic, that’s why I hate the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K so much I just think that maybe Mechanicum should be the one exception. It feels wrong to me that Heresy era Mechanicum and 40K Ad Mech are so very different, when they ought to be very similar. Perhaps even identical.
I think there needs to be a disconnect between the two factions which we sort of see.
If we look at the lineup for the Mechanicum it's a lot of Dark Age machines that come a lot closer to A.I. and freaky science projects. Many Automata used by the Mechanicum seemed to develop quirks and sometimes things that resembled a primitive personality. They were much more independent of their human masters without being human themselves.
The Mechanicus however, is much more human-based soldiers. Skitarii of many types, Battle Servitors, and only one type of Battle Automata which has its behaviours strictly controlled by data wafers. The armies of the Adeptus Mechanicus more closely resemble the Imperium they are a part of, even if it hordes technology and secrets like the old Mechanicum. There is safety in the limitations of (albeit an advanced) human body.
Obviously there are the Techthralls and the Titan Legion Skitarii but the majority of the HH Mechanicum list is based around non-human units whereas the 40k Mechanicus is almost entirely human-based units.
Yeah, the 40k Mechanicus wouldn't want to use all of those semi-autonomous Automota.....but the 40kDark Mechanicum would. Some Chaos tainted Vorax, Thallax, Thanatars, etc would be awesome, and a lot cooler than dinobots and mutant spiders, IMHO.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The overall build is also really solid, something it has in common with the Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought, despite the Rhino having a fair amount of hollow space inside.
And yes, MM Deimos just seem to make sense! Cheap enough to be viable, and one of those odd threats to your opponent, who can only sort of-ish afford to ignore it. But to engage it risks them arguably wasting firepower.
And if you make it a Dedicated Transport for any unit with Infiltrate you can have it causing problems for your opponent early. Not bad for 65 PPM.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Next month hopefully the predator and proteus land raider? Then GW needs to start showing off new plastics
I’m hopeful of plastic Tercios for the Solar Auxilia.
Sure, the Mechanicum didn’t get anything crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris, but given how points intensive their forces can be, that’s perhaps understandable.
But the Tercios? So bloody expensive in resin, and you need a fair few. So plastic makes sense.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Next month hopefully the predator and proteus land raider? Then GW needs to start showing off new plastics
I’m hopeful of plastic Tercios for the Solar Auxilia.
Sure, the Mechanicum didn’t get anything crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris, but given how points intensive their forces can be, that’s perhaps understandable.
But the Tercios? So bloody expensive in resin, and you need a fair few. So plastic makes sense.
Looking at how successful Heresy 2.0 seems to be, I think we will get plastic releases for more than marines eventually. It’ll probably be several years down the line though. We might even see the expansion of Heresy era onto other games. I’d be up for Age of Darkness Kill Team, for example.
Dr. Mills wrote: Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?
At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.
Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.
Yep, 100%. I think many people calling for 40k Mechanicum in 30k and vice versa are people who haven't dug deep into the fluff. The MECHANICUM of the 30k era are a very different organization from the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS of the 40k era. I capitalized those names for a reason - to highlight that they are different, they refer to different things and they are not interchangeable (despite the tendency of the fanbase to treat them as such) - its like referring to the Third Reich as the Weimar Republic, or referring to the Weimar Republic as the German Kaiserreich, etc. There is clear continuity between them, some of the people are the same, etc. by virtue of one leading into the other, but they are also still vastly different. Their military structures, capabilities, organization, weapons, etc. are very different from eachother. I think the tendency for people to view the Mechanicum and AdMech as being synonymous and the whole "technology hasn't changed in 10k years" thing leads people to assume that the Mechanicus would still be organized and fighting the same way they were 10k years prior, but that is explicitly not true in the fluff.
Dr. Mills wrote: Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?
At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.
Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.
Yep, 100%. I think many people calling for 40k Mechanicum in 30k and vice versa are people who haven't dug deep into the fluff. The MECHANICUM of the 30k era are a very different organization from the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS of the 40k era. I capitalized those names for a reason - to highlight that they are different, they refer to different things and they are not interchangeable (despite the tendency of the fanbase to treat them as such) - its like referring to the Third Reich as the Weimar Republic, or referring to the Weimar Republic as the German Kaiserreich, etc. There is clear continuity between them, some of the people are the same, etc. by virtue of one leading into the other, but they are also still vastly different. Their military structures, capabilities, organization, weapons, etc. are very different from eachother. I think the tendency for people to view the Mechanicum and AdMech as being synonymous and the whole "technology hasn't changed in 10k years" thing leads people to assume that the Mechanicus would still be organized and fighting the same way they were 10k years prior, but that is explicitly not true in the fluff.
Okay, structures, names, organisations change. Tactics might have changed too. You’re also correct about some technological changes (ironstriders for example, dating from M33).
However, I think you’re exaggerating the difference. The rules we’ve had in HH are really just very detailed rules for the Legio Cybernetica (with a bit of Ordo Reductor thrown in). The Skitarii Legions were definitely a thing in 30K and there have never been rules for them. Now it could be that the Skitarii of 30K looked and operated very differently from the Skitarii of 40K. I don’t have a problem with that. On the other hand though, they could have just put a small number of 40K plastic Skitarii options into the army and made it much cheaper to collect, without, I think, spoiling the 30K flavour.
Especially when there is the Secutarii who can use the plastic Skitarii, why not give them the landing craft and fliers to keep up with the titans they protect? Or add in electro priests as a retinue for some techpriest instead of just the bitty battle automata? Kataphrons as cheap and crude troops for ordo reductor.
Yeah, didn't the elctropriests predate the mechanicum??
I like that Admech is more restrained but there still needs to be some of the "unrestrained" technology. Which the Mechanicum has in spades.
But I agree that some of the Skitarii units should be in the Mechanicum army lost, which ones are subject to discussion but at MIN Vanguards/Rangers and give them terrax at a pts discount.
Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story. At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).
TheBestBucketHead wrote: Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story.
A lot of the Reductor & Cybernetica stuff was on the 'wrong side' of the new Adeptus Mechanicus - too based on organics and therefor open to corruption.
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TheBestBucketHead wrote: At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).
"Fires of Cyraxus" was going to be the book that had the 30k stuff for 40k, but it got caught in an edition change and low FW Mechanicum sales.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story.
A lot of the Reductor & Cybernetica stuff was on the 'wrong side' of the new Adeptus Mechanicus - too based on organics and therefor open to corruption.
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TheBestBucketHead wrote: At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).
"Fires of Cyraxus" was going to be the book that had the 30k stuff for 40k, but it got caught in an edition change and low FW Mechanicum sales.
A HH version of AA was coming the minute Marines got stuff for the game, especially considering everything but the Thunderhawk are supposed to be relics for modern Chapters. Heck, the Xiphon was outdated by the Heresy.
None so far but Knights Errant got a mention as being in a future campaign book so there's a chance Blackshields and Shattered Legions could come back.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: With all the emphasis being on marines for the foreseeable, has there been any mention of Blackshields?
The Legacies PDF mentioned that both Blackshields and Knights Errant would be getting rules in a future publication:
In the previous edition of the Horus Heresy, we have presented rules for the Knights-Errant and Blackshields. This PDF provides rules for several unique characters, but does not contain the full rules for these iconic factions of the Age of Darkness. Instead, both the Blackshields and Knights-Errant will be presented as factions with complete rules in a future Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness publication.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Sure, the Mechanicum didn’t get anything crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris, but given how points intensive their forces can be, that’s perhaps understandable.
I was expecting the 'common' stuff that Marines can take (Castelax, etc.) to be done in plastic.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: With all the emphasis being on marines for the foreseeable, has there been any mention of Blackshields?
The Legacies PDF mentioned that both Blackshields and Knights Errant would be getting rules in a future publication:
In the previous edition of the Horus Heresy, we have presented rules for the Knights-Errant and Blackshields. This PDF provides rules for several unique characters, but does not contain the full rules for these iconic factions of the Age of Darkness. Instead, both the Blackshields and Knights-Errant will be presented as factions with complete rules in a future Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness publication.
Thanks, I missed that. If I do ever get into Heresy, Blackshields are likely to be my guys.
I’ve got three sheets of Blackshield transfers that I impulse bought when they went “last chance to buy”, so I might make a start on a small force, just for …s and giggles.
I'd rather they announce something that isn't Marine trash.
They made a big hooplah about all the other factions getting rules. Now start with models. Bad enough that they shelved the rules for Cyraxus for this nonsense.
Agreed, I think announcing something like a despoiler/assault marine box (or a despoiler box with "add-on" jump pack sprue to buy ) would go a long way to keeping up enthusiasm for the game, particularly for people who chose melee heavy armies.
I would like to see the infantry assault options they are going to have in plastic so I can know what type of Jump Packs they are doing and if I need to stick with resin for them or not.
i am sitting on a brick of space brits and would like to proceed building my militia.
I'm in a similar boat, I bought a ton of Grognards and was gonna use them for 40k but I've given up on that game. So I might avail myself of some allies for my 18th. Or I'll buy into a different WGA line to make some cultists for my nascent 3rd...
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather they announce something that isn't Marine trash.
They made a big hooplah about all the other factions getting rules. Now start with models. Bad enough that they shelved the rules for Cyraxus for this nonsense.
Perhaps the Heresy isn't for you, given the entire thing is about 18 different colors of space marines all fighting over the same box of crayons.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather they announce something that isn't Marine trash.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something tells me 30k probably isn't the game system for you. You might as well book a trip to Alaska for Xmas and then complain about cold weather...
Agreed, I think announcing something like a despoiler/assault marine box (or a despoiler box with "add-on" jump pack sprue to buy ) would go a long way to keeping up enthusiasm for the game, particularly for people who chose melee heavy armies.
Breachers, lascannon/autocannon pack that we desperately need to deal w dreads...
TheBestBucketHead wrote: "Perhaps 30k isn't for you"
Mechanicum, Daemons, Cults, and Solar Auxilia are all things, people. Plastic Mechanicum would be very cool.
Liber Daemonicus would be nice to have as I have a fully painted non-GW demon army at my disposal.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: Mechanicum, Daemons, Cults, and Solar Auxilia are all things, people. Plastic Mechanicum would be very cool.
No doubt, and I say that as someone with a big Mechanicum army, but it's a bit rich to complain about Marine releases in a conflict that is 95% Marine vs Marine.
It'd be like seeing a new edition of Space Hulk and scoffing at "More Terminator and Genestealer trash!". It's as petty as it is illogical.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather they announce something that isn't Marine trash.
Comes into a thread about The Horus Heresy, whines about Marine releases. Meanwhile, elsewhere, scolds anyone who has the audacity to want to keep heavy weapons in Guard squads. I guess we're all having fun the wrong way again.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather they announce something that isn't Marine trash.
They made a big hooplah about all the other factions getting rules. Now start with models. Bad enough that they shelved the rules for Cyraxus for this nonsense.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: "Perhaps 30k isn't for you"
Mechanicum, Daemons, Cults, and Solar Auxilia are all things, people. Plastic Mechanicum would be very cool.
Sure, but 90% of your opponents will always be space marines. If you think HH era marines are trash and don't want to see them on the table, that's nearly impossible. Unless you're just playing garage hammer with a couple close friends who have no interest in marines, you're still going to see a lot of the same marine kits painted 18 different colors on the other side of the table. To my earlier analogy, sure you can sit in a heated cabin in Alaska but if you hate the cold, it's probably not a great vacation destination for you at xmas time...
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H.B.M.C. wrote: it's a bit rich to complain about Marine releases in a conflict that is 95% Marine vs Marine.
There's too many darn Space Marines in my game about *checks notes* Space Marines fighting against other Space Marines
i am sitting on a brick of space brits and would like to proceed building my militia.
Looking at the roadmap article, no fixed timeline was given for when those lists were going to be released.
The timeline we were presented with indicated we'll get Liber Imperialis (i.e., Liber Other Imperium Stuff) in October, and there'd be free PDFs every month through to at least then, so those two army lists could essentially show up on any given week.
“Heresy’s boring cos it’s just marines vs marines.”
Heresy fans - “There’s so much more to it. There’s Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia and Knights, and Demons and Militia and Cults ..”
“I hope they release something that isn’t marines soon”.
Heresy fans - “I think the Heresy isn’t for you, cos it’s basically marines vs marines”.
Seriously, I’m loving the releases so far and I’m close to biting just because beakies have really got my Rogue Trader nostalgia in full flow. They really do need some more infantry releases in plastic though. Plastic tacticals are looking great, but the minute you start looking at elite options, you’re talking ageing FW sculpts that are massively overpriced. Core units common to all legions are crying out for plastic.
I’m fine with legion specific units staying in FW resin, but there’re a lot right now that I just wouldn’t touch. The slightly rescaled MkVI armour looks absolutely gorgeous to me, but it has made a lot of the FW stuff look just bad in contrast. Badly proportioned midgets with skinny little legs. It’s a real shame because recent FW releases have been excellent. So, I think they need to start redoing all of those old sculpts to bring them up to the new standard.
It’s more complaining a game that focuses, and has always focussed, on armies lead by virtual Demi-Gods knocking seven bells out of each other, which has a supporting cast of other armed forces, is focussing on the armies lead by virtual Demi-Gods first.
Would I have liked to see at least some Mechanicum (almost typed Ad-Mech) and Solar Auxilia in plastic? Hell yes I absolutely would. Am I surprised there’s no sign of that yet? Not in the least.
I still reckon we’ll see them in due course. But for now, it’s kind of….almost funny…to see people expressing surprise it’s a Super Human Sosig Fest out of the gate.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s more complaining a game that focuses, and has always focussed, on armies lead by virtual Demi-Gods knocking seven bells out of each other, which has a supporting cast of other armed forces, is focussing on the armies lead by virtual Demi-Gods first.
Would I have liked to see at least some Mechanicum (almost typed Ad-Mech) and Solar Auxilia in plastic? Hell yes I absolutely would. Am I surprised there’s no sign of that yet? Not in the least.
I still reckon we’ll see them in due course. But for now, it’s kind of….almost funny…to see people expressing surprise it’s a Super Human Sosig Fest out of the gate.
I’m not holding my breath for Solar Auxilia. They couldn’t even be bothered to finish them in resin. Many of the models they did produce went out of production. It’s not even possible to collect a Solar Auxilia army in resin without resorting to conversions or recasts.
I’m fine with legion specific units staying in FW resin, but there’re a lot right now that I just wouldn’t touch. The slightly rescaled MkVI armour looks absolutely gorgeous to me, but it has made a lot of the FW stuff look just bad in contrast. Badly proportioned midgets with skinny little legs. It’s a real shame because recent FW releases have been excellent. So, I think they need to start redoing all of those old sculpts to bring them up to the new standard.
Yeah, that's perhaps the worst part about the HH model line, half of it is very noticeable out of scale with the other half - older plastics and resins are so small and manlet-y compared to the newer ones.
People really need to get a grip on their scale quibbles. Do you really expect them to rescale everything when new stuff comes out? Scale differences are part of the hobby. Bulk up your bases if it's an issue. Personally I like the slight differences in scale, especially if it's characters and praetors that are larger.
On the table there's really no noticeable problem with scale. Even the smallest models like reavers look fine next to models converted from chaos space marines, which are bigger than the new mk6
If you had them all set out in a display cabinet it *might* actually be noticeable enough to be an issue
Not to say anyone is wrong about scale being a bit off. I'm just saying it doesn't actually break any immersion on the tabletop so I hope people aren't put off when they read about scale creep on the internet and think the games unplayable
So that leaves a bunch of Legion Upgrade Packs to be announced (Night Lords, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Alpha Legion); plus the Predator, 2 Heavy Weapon Packs (plasma cannons/heavy flamers/multi-meltas & volkite culverins/lascannons/autocannons) and the announced FW models to be released. Have I missed anything?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: People really need to get a grip on their scale quibbles. Do you really expect them to rescale everything when new stuff comes out? Scale differences are part of the hobby. Bulk up your bases if it's an issue. Personally I like the slight differences in scale, especially if it's characters and praetors that are larger.
It’s not only about scale, it’s also about the quality of the sculpts. I’d also be fine with characters being larger than troops, buts that’s not the case. If you’re using the new MkVI marines as your troops, it’s more like your basic troops making your elites look like malformed children. Saying scale differences are part of the hobby is basically saying we should accept low standards.
Now I’m not saying that FW should just throw everything away and start again. What I am saying is that a steady refresh, starting with the older releases, would make the range better. It’s no different from main GW refreshing older ranges with better sculpts.
I'm probably the odd one out here, but the Proteus doesn't do anything for me. My first exposure to Land Raiders were the mid 90's Epic Land Raiders that eventually were the pattern for the 40k Land Raider. The 80's Land Raiders always looked too weirdly proportioned, and so for me they've stuck too close to that old design for my likings.
The Spartan stretches things out enough that I quite like it, but the Proteus, yeah, not doing anything for me.
I know with the Proteus they want to appeal to older Fans and therefor keep it close to the original, but... Those tracks could really need a profile instead of being flat, would it have really bothered people if they had made that adjustment?
Glad to see the proteus officially announced. Next week or two will probably be more upgrade kits, then hopefully some currently unknown plastic kits for HH.
Hopefully FW will make side parts to convert it to an Armored Proteus.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'm probably the odd one out here, but the Proteus doesn't do anything for me. My first exposure to Land Raiders were the mid 90's Epic Land Raiders that eventually were the pattern for the 40k Land Raider. The 80's Land Raiders always looked too weirdly proportioned, and so for me they've stuck too close to that old design for my likings.
The Spartan stretches things out enough that I quite like it, but the Proteus, yeah, not doing anything for me.
I’m in the same boat mate. I remember the original Land Raider coming out and I remember not liking it back then. Like you say, the proportions are all wrong. It always looked to me like it would start rolling end over end if it tried to go down too steep a hill. The Spartan fixes everything wrong with the Proteus and looks so much better.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Why couldn't they upscale Terminators too, so they'd be in-line with regular Marines?
The Terminators are already upscaled. They're taller than the Mk3 and Mk4 Marines and in line with DW, TS, CSM, Mk6 when they got released.
Personally, I'd disagree - the plastic terminators are visibly smaller than Mk6, and bordering on comically tiny compared to characters. I'd really like them to feel a bit more big and imposing than they do at the moment.
Always been a bit surprised by the lack of protection GW give the tracks of tanks, considering it's the most vulnerable and easily crippled part of the vehicle. It's particularly obvious on the Proteus as it's so skinny, the thing is about 50% exposed tracks.
Prometheum5 wrote: I love the look of the Explorator but I do not understand its function in the game. What are people going to use it for?
Uh, as a LR Explorator? Using the profile/unit entry for it?
Am I missing something?
I think the question being asked is why use the Land Raider option that doesn't let you assault out of it? Do it's other abilities make up for the lack of an assault ramp?
Prometheum5 wrote: I love the look of the Explorator but I do not understand its function in the game. What are people going to use it for?
Uh, as a LR Explorator? Using the profile/unit entry for it?
Am I missing something?
I think the question being asked is why use the Land Raider option that doesn't let you assault out of it? Do it's other abilities make up for the lack of an assault ramp?
The Reserve / Deep Strike shenanigans are situational, but it also has Scout which is nasty on a Land Raider.
That was my meaning, sorry for not being clearer. I don't quite understand the tabletop role of the Explorator over what the transporter model gets you. I love the look of the Explorator but use-wise it seems to give up a lot.
BigOscar wrote: Always been a bit surprised by the lack of protection GW give the tracks of tanks, considering it's the most vulnerable and easily crippled part of the vehicle. It's particularly obvious on the Proteus as it's so skinny, the thing is about 50% exposed tracks.
If that thing drove over a firecracker, it would lose an entire track.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: People really need to get a grip on their scale quibbles. Do you really expect them to rescale everything when new stuff comes out? Scale differences are part of the hobby. Bulk up your bases if it's an issue. Personally I like the slight differences in scale, especially if it's characters and praetors that are larger.
Agree to disagree then. No matter how hard I try, I just cannot unsee the lanky proportions of other firstborn models anymore. It was still palatable when only Primaris models had better proportions (perhaps due to size difference), but now that we have the new MKVI, there is no way I'll ever be buying the old proportioned models again, unless it's just for getting certain bits to use with newer torsos.
Same happened to me with IG, ever since I got my hands on the new DKoK models, I've sold all my vintage Cadians and Catachans. The proportions just look too outrageous whenever the old models are next to the new ones, to the point where the old sculpts start looking like abhumans.
You are of course free to do as you please with your models, but you cannot project your preferences and expectations to other people. It shouldn't affect you or anyone else in the slightest if I or anyone else wants to rebuy their models whenever their look improves significantly. Perhaps you should get over the fact that this seems to rub you the wrong way?
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lord_blackfang wrote: It has that happy meal toy adorability, but I kinda wish they didn't stick so close to bad 80s sculpts with these things.
I think the og Land Raider looks HIDEOUS, but in the best way possible. The definition of "Pretty Ugly". You know what's the best way to get rid of the "Happy Meal Toy" feel? Heavy weathering and chipping. When painted in the Eavy Metal style, indeed looks derpy. But give the same model to Phil Stutcinskas or Lincoln Wright, and the result will look properly grimdark, guaranteed.
Btw, does the newer Armoured Proteus Land Raider look better in your opinion? I think that's a great design, which takes the og and builds upon it. I've got one of those in resin. I hope they plasticize that one as well.
I also like the Land Raider Achilles. That's the most futuristic looking Land Raider of the bunch IMO.
You are of course free to do as you please with your models, but you cannot project your preferences and expectations to other people. It shouldn't affect you or anyone else in the slightest if I or anyone else wants to rebuy their models whenever their look improves significantly. Perhaps you should get over the fact that this seems to rub you the wrong way?
I can. It's an opinion, projected into the world in the exact same fashion as those who are complaining about the small scale differences in wargame figs, in contradiction to those said opinions. It's how people discuss things upon which they have different viewpoints.
Agree to disagree then. No matter how hard I try, I just cannot unsee the lanky proportions of other firstborn models anymore. It was still palatable when only Primaris models had better proportions (perhaps due to size difference), but now that we have the new MKVI, there is no way I'll ever be buying the old proportioned models again, unless it's just for getting certain bits to use with newer torsos.
Same happened to me with IG, ever since I got my hands on the new DKoK models, I've sold all my vintage Cadians and Catachans. The proportions just look too outrageous whenever the old models are next to the new ones, to the point where the old sculpts start looking like abhumans.
This. The new Mk VI with their vastly improved proportions just look great. I just want all the classic marines brought up to this standard, I'd happily buy them all!
....So we have had a lot a vehicles previewed or released for the HH so far. Where the hell are my infantry?!
Agree to disagree then. No matter how hard I try, I just cannot unsee the lanky proportions of other firstborn models anymore. It was still palatable when only Primaris models had better proportions (perhaps due to size difference), but now that we have the new MKVI, there is no way I'll ever be buying the old proportioned models again, unless it's just for getting certain bits to use with newer torsos.
Same happened to me with IG, ever since I got my hands on the new DKoK models, I've sold all my vintage Cadians and Catachans. The proportions just look too outrageous whenever the old models are next to the new ones, to the point where the old sculpts start looking like abhumans.
This. The new Mk VI with their vastly improved proportions just look great. I just want all the classic marines brought up to this standard, I'd happily buy them all!
....So we have had a lot a vehicles previewed or released for the HH so far. Where the hell are my infantry?!
my gut says infantry will be in the form of upgrade packs, once the various special and heavy weapons packs are released GW will release a melee upgrade pack for Mk VIs
And while classically, assault marines with jump packs came in mk vi (even the original Epic models for the early HH versions of the game), it'd be a good fit for doing mk5 in plastic.
Though I like the idea of Destroyer squads in mk5, just for the the sense of desperation in bringing those weapons out and stretching armor supplies. But there's a fair amount of overlap with the pistols and chainswords.
Destroyers are currently in MK IV armor. A new box of MK IV jump troops with melee and destroyer options would be amazing, and let GW upscale that armor. Same could be done for MK III breachers/ despoilers.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Destroyers are currently in MK IV armor. A new box of MK IV jump troops with melee and destroyer options would be amazing, and let GW upscale that armor. Same could be done for MK III breachers/ despoilers.
MK IV seems unlikely simply because there are plastic MK IV right now that they just repackaged, I think if we get new kits in differant armor marks it'll be mk v and ii
Please no more Mk.IV. We get enough that every day with Primaris helmets.
I have long since accepted that we're never going to get a proper full Mk.VIII kit, but Mk.II and Mk.V can't be out of the question? Or even just Mk.II?
Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
MajorWesJanson wrote: Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
Argel Tal has the legs of a MkII marine under his foot (and the rest in his hand) so depending how that was sculpted they might have the legs in digital already too.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
Argel Tal has the legs of a MkII marine under his foot (and the rest in his hand) so depending how that was sculpted they might have the legs in digital already too.
A lot of the newer FW stuff is digital, but digital for resin casting, not plastic.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
Argel Tal has the legs of a MkII marine under his foot (and the rest in his hand) so depending how that was sculpted they might have the legs in digital already too.
A lot of the newer FW stuff is digital, but digital for resin casting, not plastic.
How hard is it to tranfer from one material to another, IIRC the warlord titan was literally a plastic downscaled copy of the resin 28mm warlord
MajorWesJanson wrote: Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
Argel Tal has the legs of a MkII marine under his foot (and the rest in his hand) so depending how that was sculpted they might have the legs in digital already too.
A lot of the newer FW stuff is digital, but digital for resin casting, not plastic.
How hard is it to tranfer from one material to another, IIRC the warlord titan was literally a plastic downscaled copy of the resin 28mm warlord
It wasn't. And resin kits are sculpted to allow for undercuts and larger components while plastic has to be broken up differently to fit on a sprue and have injection points.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I suspect they started off using the existing design, but as MWJ said there’s a good bit more too it than just sticking it through the Debigulator.
Now I want a Debigulator. Just to experiment with.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Gw has half of the MK II kit in digital format thanks to vehicle crew. Maybe plasticize the rapier gun carrier and add legs to make MK II crew for it next?
Argel Tal has the legs of a MkII marine under his foot (and the rest in his hand) so depending how that was sculpted they might have the legs in digital already too.
A lot of the newer FW stuff is digital, but digital for resin casting, not plastic.
How hard is it to tranfer from one material to another, IIRC the warlord titan was literally a plastic downscaled copy of the resin 28mm warlord
That involved workload of about same as had they started from scratch. But that was due to size and not material. Likely faster to turn 28mm resin to 28mm plastic(well 32)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I suspect they started off using the existing design, but as MWJ said there’s a good bit more too it than just sticking it through the Debigulator.
Now I want a Debigulator. Just to experiment with.
I want the opposite so I can finally satisfy the wife...
So those use the plastic MKIII/IV as a base??? That's dope! Oh wait they don't, it's almost like I was referencing plastic kits, cuz they're not legion specific and should make the plastic conversion.
Now if only the mkiii/iv kits were available....still waiting
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I suspect they started off using the existing design, but as MWJ said there’s a good bit more too it than just sticking it through the Debigulator.
Now I want a Debigulator. Just to experiment with.
They do exist.
Many of our favourite oldschool models were initially sculpted in 3-up scale, and then "debigified" using a pantograph.
I remember at least one article in a white dwarf where they showed it being done.
Of course as mentioned, there's a lot of other things to consider as well when swiching scale and materials, like undercuts etc.
Many of our favourite oldschool models were initially sculpted in 3-up scale, and then "debigified" using a pantograph.
I remember at least one article in a white dwarf where they showed it being done.
Fun fact, last I heard, Renedra still make use of the Pantograph for some projects
Yeah, I want some autocannons and lascannons in my army, but as of yet, it's only missile launchers for me since those sets aren't out yet. I wish they would say something about it.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Yeah, I want some autocannons and lascannons in my army, but as of yet, it's only missile launchers for me since those sets aren't out yet. I wish they would say something about it.
yeah does seem kinda odd they're delayed so long, you'd think they'd wanna get those out fast. unfortunately I;d be betting on them coming out in oct with Liber imperialis.
If the previous HH release was anything to go by, it's possible that we will see another bigger drop soon, with Deimos Predator, Land Reaider Proteus and both Heavy weapon boxes dropping simultaneously. Timing of such a drop within the monthly cycle would be similar to the last one.
tauist wrote: If the previous HH release was anything to go by, it's possible that we will see another bigger drop soon, with Deimos Predator, Land Reaider Proteus and both Heavy weapon boxes dropping simultaneously. Timing of such a drop within the monthly cycle would be similar to the last one.
If I was going to bet we'll get the predator and one of the HW packs in sept and the land raider and other heavy weapons in Oct or vice versa
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I’m hoping for some kind of Assault infantry and the Deredeo by Christmas.
Deredeo is unlikely IMHO. chances are we've seen all of this years kits, if we get anything beyond what we've seen it'll be something "easily hidden" like infantry upgrades
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I dunno man. Dreadnoughts are always popular, and it’s just the Deredeo to go. And we’ve three months of release window to go. Well. Three and a bit.
Maybe but I think we'd have seen leaks by now, my guess is the Deredeo is gonna be saved for next year, BECAUSE Dreads are popular, spread the releases out to make things like nice on your yearly review.
Many of our favourite oldschool models were initially sculpted in 3-up scale, and then "debigified" using a pantograph.
I remember at least one article in a white dwarf where they showed it being done.
Fun fact, last I heard, Renedra still make use of the Pantograph for some projects
Last year the Perry twins gave an interview and mentioned they still use 3-ups for plastic models, and yeah, they use Renedra for pantography.
Low key the best part of the new Contemptor kit is the bionic eye for the head. Initially I was a bit disappointed that one was pictured on the box but you could not make it, I was wrong.
But my favourite part of the HH releases is the nightmare drilling of guns and bolters that has appeared on the box of the retail boxes. The Kheres on the new Contemptor box and the Deimos Rhino ones are really bad. These may be visible on the GW website pics too.
Quite possibly yes. The additional 3 chest plates and weapons are a welcome addition as well as the scrollwork and shields. Now to workout what loadouts I want on the 3 that arrived this morning...I would really like dual Kheres but am not that find of drilling out all those barrels.
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
Probably they don't want the comically squat old resin Marines, because they're going to look really weird next to the new ones, that are a good head taller.
It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
Probably they don't want the comically squat old resin Marines, because they're going to look really weird next to the new ones, that are a good head taller.
And it's kinda hard to justify paying roughly the same price for 5 Assault Marines as what you would pay for 20 Mark VI TACs.
I'm going to see if I can convert one of the MkVI marine to MkIV using green stuff and a Primaris helmet, since that's the closest I have to a MkIV right now. If it looks turns out ok, I may convert some or all of them.
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
Umm, yeah, it's not really "new hat" syndrome so much as it's "don't want to pay $136 for a 10 man breacher squad" syndrome. But sure, lets pretend that the reason people didn't collect HH for the past 10 years was something other than the insane price and the pain of having to deal with FW and FW resin.
godardc wrote: Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
...are you really that out of touch?
Most of us would prefer not to pay a ludicrous price-per-model for misshapen monkey-men/dwarfs with laughably bad proportions who look nothing like the artwork. The frequent careless casting errors and giants resin gates certainly don't sweeten the deal.
God forbid that we might want a reasonably-priced alternative that actually *looks like a space marine*.
Duymon wrote: It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s
Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?
Duymon wrote: It's almost as if the big influx of Hh players has somehting to do with mainstream support from gw with updated plastic and not having to deal with forgeworld hard to get resin kits and rulebooks /s
Assuming the flag by your name is correct, you're in the USA, so riddle me this - how, exactly, is placing an online order from FW trickier (or more of a roadblock) than placing one from any other online seller?
FW comes with a bigger price tag.
Some people don't buy from "any other online seller", they buy from their FLGS or a specific online seller that they trust/like.
FW stuff often comes with flaws that warrant the part being replaced.
Lots of people prefer plastic to resin.
Even in the US I've heard reports of FW occasionally taking a long time deliver (there was a thread on it recently and I recall several Muricans complaining their orders were taking weeks to months to be shipped).
Some people don't like the proportions of the old Space Marine models and want something that will match the aesthetic of the Age of Darkness box they just bought.
Is that enough reasons? How many reasons do we need before people stop saying "Stop wanting things to be better! Just buy from FW, that's what true HH fans have been doing for years!"
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
If you're done patting yourself on the back for being snide, you'll admit you left out nobody wants to spends over $13 per marine. Not when they don't have to.
And you'll also admit that that the 10 year old game has all kinds of holes in it that were never filled. Want a Chaplin on a bike? Dawnbreakers with swords? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
If you're done patting yourself on the back for being snide, you'll admit you left out nobody wants to spends over $13 per marine. Not when they don't have to.
And you'll also admit that that the 10 year old game has all kinds of holes in it that were never filled. Want a Chaplin on a bike? Dawnbreakers with swords? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
guys, complaining about this type of thing is how we get 40ks rediculas "no model no rules"
Alpharius wrote: Was there a release date mentioned back when the World Eaters upgrade pack was previewed?
Not to my knowledge. It also seems like resin characters and upgrades are shown off a good bit in advance and we should expect them to be released after months rather than weeks.
And nobody is asking for models that don’t currently exist. We’re posting hoped for Order for Release for stuff crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris.
We can reasonably infer most non-Legion specific unit types will be coming to plastic, and different folk have different wishes for prioritisation thereof.
dan2026 wrote: Can the new plastic Contemptor dreadnought be used in 40k?
There is a Contemptor datasheet in the SM dex. But it only covers the options for the older model that was released with the Betrayal at Calth game. So a single multi melta or assault cannon alongside a single fist and combi bolter are the only weapons. All the other gear is covered in the Imperial armour compendium from Forge world.
dan2026 wrote: Can the new plastic Contemptor dreadnought be used in 40k?
There is a Contemptor datasheet in the SM dex. But it only covers the options for the older model that was released with the Betrayal at Calth game. So a single multi melta or assault cannon alongside a single fist and combi bolter are the only weapons. All the other gear is covered in the Imperial armour compendium from Forge world.
Im still a bit confused. The only Contemptor I can see in IA is the Relic Contemptor. But that seems to have different weapons. There aren't profiles for Gravis autocannons, Gravis bolt cannons, Gravis lascannons, Gravis melta cannons, Gravis plasma cannons etc.
dan2026 wrote: Can the new plastic Contemptor dreadnought be used in 40k?
There is a Contemptor datasheet in the SM dex. But it only covers the options for the older model that was released with the Betrayal at Calth game. So a single multi melta or assault cannon alongside a single fist and combi bolter are the only weapons. All the other gear is covered in the Imperial armour compendium from Forge world.
Im still a bit confused. The only Contemptor I can see in IA is the Relic Contemptor. But that seems to have different weapons. There aren't profiles for Gravis autocannons, Gravis bolt cannons, Gravis lascannons, Gravis melta cannons, Gravis plasma cannons etc.
The weapons were renamed in HH2 - just drop the Gravis (bolt cannon is heavy bolter, melta cannon is multi-melta, etc.)
dan2026 wrote: Can the new plastic Contemptor dreadnought be used in 40k?
There is a Contemptor datasheet in the SM dex. But it only covers the options for the older model that was released with the Betrayal at Calth game. So a single multi melta or assault cannon alongside a single fist and combi bolter are the only weapons. All the other gear is covered in the Imperial armour compendium from Forge world.
Im still a bit confused. The only Contemptor I can see in IA is the Relic Contemptor. But that seems to have different weapons. There aren't profiles for Gravis autocannons, Gravis bolt cannons, Gravis lascannons, Gravis melta cannons, Gravis plasma cannons etc.
The weapons were renamed in HH2 - just drop the Gravis (bolt cannon is heavy bolter, melta cannon is multi-melta, etc.)
Some people don't buy from "any other online seller", they buy from their FLGS or a specific online seller that they trust/like.
FW stuff often comes with flaws that warrant the part being replaced.
Lots of people prefer plastic to resin.
All of this! My FLGS gives me 10% discount, plus I get points I can redeem for store credit which is basically another 10%. A squad of 10 breachers is $136 from Forge World, but would be $40 at my FLGS in plastic. Plastic is easier to clean up because there's no giant gates, and easier to build because you don't have to wait for superglue to cure or call the wife in to spray insta cure while you use both hands to hold the model exactly how you want it.
Tonight should be Kill Team Into the Dark hopefully.
Gah, as much as I want to get into this reboot of HH, I've come to enjoy the, for me at least YMMV obv, painless experience of having all my rules and weapon stats mostly on a single page, as opposed to having to leaf through two books to find everything I need for a single unit entry now.
Anyone, please tell me where in the main HH rulebook, or the AdMech book, I can find what the unit term "skirmisher" does please!
BrookM wrote: Tonight should be Kill Team Into the Dark hopefully.
Gah, as much as I want to get into this reboot of HH, I've come to enjoy the, for me at least YMMV obv, painless experience of having all my rules and weapon stats mostly on a single page, as opposed to having to leaf through two books to find everything I need for a single unit entry now.
Anyone, please tell me where in the main HH rulebook, or the AdMech book, I can find what the unit term "skirmisher" does please!
Skirmisher extends unit coherency (3” I think) and grants a bonus to cover.
I think it's either tucked away somewhere illogical or they forgot to add it. Thinking the latter, because bloody hell some things are hard to find in these new books.
Ah finally one intelligent answer. I may add that the heavy weapons are there too. I don't understand, it's like people treat The Horus Heresy as a new game and forget it has been running for like 10 years and that people have been collecting whole armies ! But no, they prefer to sell there tiny AoD forces because "muuuh not enough plastic" ... New hat syndrome
No, knew they were there, but if I was interested in resin, and five marines at t hat price, would've bought them already... the Horus Heresy has been around for awhile, but some folks seem to not understand the new influx of players/customers is the result of something .... new in the product line.
Gert wrote: The names are different because the games are different. Gravis is the new HH version of Twin-Linked weapons.
Not really. Gravis weapons are "better" versions of the weapons in some way, usually also twin-linked, but there are twin-linked weapons that are not Gravis and Gravis weapons that are not twin-linked (like the Gravis lascannon, which is twin-linked in the box pamphlet but not in the Liber books).
Not sure if already mentioned, but while the Castellan and Valiant are absent from the book, there is the option to recreate the Draikana from Dawn of War III with the Questoris Knight entry.
Keel wrote: Not really. Gravis weapons are "better" versions of the weapons in some way, usually also twin-linked, but there are twin-linked weapons that are not Gravis and Gravis weapons that are not twin-linked (like the Gravis lascannon, which is twin-linked in the box pamphlet but not in the Liber books).
With regards to Contemptors, the Gravis weapons are just all the TL weapons found in 40k, which was the relevant info for someone confused on why there aren't any Gravis weapons in 40k.
Keel wrote: Not really. Gravis weapons are "better" versions of the weapons in some way, usually also twin-linked, but there are twin-linked weapons that are not Gravis and Gravis weapons that are not twin-linked (like the Gravis lascannon, which is twin-linked in the box pamphlet but not in the Liber books).
With regards to Contemptors, the Gravis weapons are just all the TL weapons found in 40k, which was the relevant info for someone confused on why there aren't any Gravis weapons in 40k.
In the sense that they are twin-linked in 40k, you're right, of course. Except the Gravis power fist/chanfist…
BrookM wrote: Also quite surprised that the Sicaran kit hasn't sold out yet.
It all just depends how many they made.
But also perhaps so many people now have Spartans for their armies they aren't ready for a 2nd largish tank? Or maybe it's not as well liked aesthetically? I know the Sicaran doesn't do much for me, I'd rather have a Predator squadron.
I will agree here, predators seem to do the same thing but with less points. I think if they had made different turrent options they might have a higher demand. The base weapon pretty much makes it more geared at anti infantry, especially since there are not many light tanks.
RazorEdge wrote: I wonder if we will see other "new" Stuff in the future (without Rules at this date) like Furibundus or Lucifer Pattern Dreadnoughts.
Do you think we could see a new Vindicator Variant with a Volkite weapon?
Hopefully, but not for a long time - there are options in the books not currently available (like a Falchion with Neutron-wave cannon) that should come out first.
Umm, yeah, it's not really "new hat" syndrome so much as it's "don't want to pay $136 for a 10 man breacher squad" syndrome. But sure, lets pretend that the reason people didn't collect HH for the past 10 years was something other than the insane price and the pain of having to deal with FW and FW resin.
The issue really seems to be that people are getting bent out of shape by the fact that not everything has been updated for a game that's only just been re-released and is in it's (plastic) infancy and they want (insert unit here) re-released in plastic RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WANT IT!!!
Let's not also forget that the AoD box is a great new army start for a Marine army, just short a few special/heavy weapons, so GW is playing it cool with releases and going with a methodical rate rather than spamming and overwhelming the market with too many new AoD releases as they have no real way of knowing just how many boxes sold were to 40k players.
) would go a long way to keeping up enthusiasm for the game, particularly for people who chose melee heavy armies.
