Nephilim wrote: Slightly off topic but - I was looking at the Colonial Marine Technical manual and saw there are two different covers. Does anyone know what the difference is between them (apart from the cover art !).
BrookM wrote: From the look of it, the one with the dropship on the cover is a more current and up to date reprint.
Yes, the one with the dropship is the 2012 reprint cover. (Makes more sense than putting two civilian vehicles on the cover, I guess.) Aside from the new cover, there are no differences between the editions.
Snrub- you left out "one free unit" (from the 100K stretch).
The freebies so far are:
-Facehuggers (number depends on pledge level)
-Free unit
-Free Berserker Pred
-Free model (PredAlien, Hellhound, or 2x Sentry Guns)
That's it . Then you have the amount of credit that your pledge level lists to buy other things with. Just note, there was no freebie associated with the 165K stretch we just hit, they tend to be in between stretches.
Snrub wrote: PLUS also one free model of choice. (Since the KS just hit 165k.)
Close. 100k and 155k were free/choice goals. At 100k, we got a free unit of choice from a fairly wide selection and, at 155k, we got a free model (or, with sentry guns, 2 models) of choice from a more limited selection. The 165k goal unlocked the paid resin marker add-on, the four eggs.
Medium of Death wrote: What's the standard table size for Infinity? Will it not be roughly the same as that?
I think that Necron tile does look promising.
I think this might be good for a corner piece for a larger board. The lack of Imperial icons and general less gothic aesthetic really makes me think of the Aliens colony, or a possibly USMC outpost.
I can't seem to find this on the sites, have you a link where you saw this? mainly so i can see if it could come with gates.
I don't think it's for sale yet, the page I found was like one of their preview pages that slip into obscurity after a while. I can't see it on their main site, found it through google images.
Leaves me in a bit of a dilemma, as I am actually pledged for just over 210 pounds, but have it split between two 100 pound pledges. Would have been nice if it were based on total pledge value, not pledge level, but I can understand the reasoning.
Might take us a while to get there, but I am looking forward to the next Aliens stretch goal. Why not just make it the Queen and get all the folks chomping at the bit for it in now . I can hope, right?
I can understand rewarding those funding the most. A concurrent goal to add value to lesser pledges (and obviously the higher pledges) would be nice though.
Something like 'Real Aliens and higher get X and If it Bleeds and higher get X+Y' would have been nice.
Yeah, pretty transparent to reward starting right above your sweet spot pledge - BUT - If the goal is met, the base box does go down to 37.50 GBP each at that pledge level.
If It Bleeds is basically another box (75 GBP) plus 20 GBP more in add-ons (after the 185k goal is met) for 55 GBP more, as compared to Real Aliens. So that's an 40 GBP advantage to the pledger (and 25 before the 185k goal).
Hopefully not, MoD- myself and others are lobbying in the comments for it to be the next stretch goal (which has an Aliens logo). Would help get the excitement back, I think
Medium of Death wrote: That's a pretty high pledge level for a reward for such few people...
Especially if you have to convert it to USD. 210 dollars isn't that much when it's for a game I'm super excited for, but when that 210 becomes 336 thanks to exchange rates, it's more a second or third thought kind of thing :-\
Most people will be staying in the 75 - 155 range, anyway (and yeah, that's pounds, not dollars ). So that will likely be what most stretches will affect, just not this one, which was unfortunately set 20K away.
Medium of Death wrote: That's a pretty high pledge level for a reward for such few people...
The goal is obviously to create a new, higher sweet spot mid-project to wring 55 more quid out of people already in for 155. If you decide you want two boxes and the 185k goal is met, it's not a bad deal at all.
Yeah, but that's IF you want 2 boxes, which most folks aren't going to. And it doesn't make sense to split it with a friend, either, since then you don't both get the lower stretch goals.
(I can see the reasoning, of course, I just don't think that it will get many more folks into a 2-box pledge)
Next goal does nothing for me :( I can't spend that much and in fact might even have to drop my pledge down to the 75 pound one. I understand them wanting to reward high backers though. They should have done it like.. get +5 at one level, then +10, +15, +20, and scale it up. Then everyone gets something and everyone is happy.
That would've been a good idea, Necros! Although I do love the nature of the "choose your own adventure" previous stretch goals (or at least, the free unit, free model, and free model if we hit 2K backers ones) as they allow people to emphasize a different faction if they choose
Necros wrote: I understand them wanting to reward high backers though.
I think it's less about rewarding people who are already backing at 210 and more about getting people to raise their pledges/create a higher sweet spot for new backers.
RiTides wrote: I can see the reasoning, of course, I just can't think it that it will get many more folks into a 2-box pledge
The 40 GBP savings is pretty sweet, however ... I need to know more about the tiles before making this decision and will post as much in the comments.
The harshest part, as I mentioned, is that even if everyone at Real Aliens suddenly changed we still wouldn't have the 185k goal unlocked. This goal and this time for this amount seems like a miscalculation.
I'm hoping those tiles look better at release, and this stretch goal seems like total BS. 20000 for more ad-on pledges? Really? I dread too see how expensive the Queen will be to reach, and at this point I'm doubtful we'll even reach that point with the allotted time left .
MoD's estimate of 300k to get to the Queen seems totally reasonable to me (17.5k on average between goals with six goals left after 185k). Kicktraq has this trending to 454k+ atm but I bet that will look more anemic by tomorrow if Prodos doesn't do some damage control around this latest stretch goal.
Seeing as Prodos hasn't chimed in about this in the comments section yet, I think he's either called it a day or is conferring to see what might be best.
I think this stretch goal was done in an attempt to get people to up their pledge, but £15 of free stuff extra isn't that great an incentive imho.
Check the math, BrookM (see my post above) -- if the 185k goal is met, If It Bleeds backers are getting 95 GBP more stuff for only 55 GBP more pledged.
The only real question is, do you want 2 copies of the base game? For me, that question is impossible to answer without more information about the tiles.
Now, that aside, is it a silly time for this goal and is asking for 20k more to do something like this goofy?
I think they need to get that old video back up, or at least put some music on there. Otherwise people coming into this now will not get any hype, it just makes the whole thing seem boring. Get "Combat Drop" on ffs!
While I understand that Prodos is a small operation there's a massive pool of resources that they can plunder. There are probably license restrictions, but ffs would it have killed them to have 3D renders made before the kickstarter and time a video to show snippets of that stuff along to above said track.
Prodos has every right to manipulate and tweak the stretch goals as they see fit for their own benefit. As a KS pledger, it's up to you to tell them via your pledge if the goal is really to their benefit at the expense of the customer base. If you're unhappy, drop your pledge down to 1 GBP as there in effect are no "limited" pledges like early birds and you have nothing to lose. You can just increase it after if you feel the mistake has been corrected. Kickstarters are a collaborative process and the people holding the money also hold some power (at least while the funding is ongoing).
As many of you know Mark (and wife) of Prodos Games is expecting a baby!
We were hoping to give this one out as a present when the baby came, but obviously some people are upset about the £185K Stretch Goal...so the present announcement comes early:
When baby comes and if we are above £170k everyone at 'Payback Time!' or higher will get an additional £10 of addons.
You know, what I really like about these guys is that they're willing to admit to - and correct - their mistakes. That, and they seem like very friendly folks.
Medium of Death wrote: but ffs would it have killed them to have 3D renders made before the kickstarter and time a video to show snippets of that stuff along to above said track
First off, I totally agree with your "FFS" sentiment. This is a big license. Kickstarter backers are way, way too nice. "Here's a ton of my hard earned money, I don't mind if you feth around like amateurs."
Personally, I do mind. I don't see a KS as doing me a favor unlike a lot of hemming and hawing backers. This has got to be a mutually beneficial arrangement and high consumer standards are important to driving high quality products. (YES - KS backers are CUSTOMERS and NOT investors.)
That said: The way Prodos has handled this KS so far has been pretty even. Slow updates are balanced against a good amount of responsiveness. What initially seemed like an expensive cash in on IP value has grown into a better deal. BUT it is really important to understand that this deal remains very hypothetical.
Prodos is asking for money now in exchange for a promise of goods later and the representation that said goods will be of high quality. It should be obvious to anyone that pledgers are in the less favorable position in this transaction. For that reason, Prodos or any company using KS really needs to be clear and responsive.
I think they are doing an okay job so far. The 185k stretch goal is kind of an exception to that. They need to do something about that, at the very least putting a little effort in to sell it (by, for example, talking up the tiles) or scrapping it/sweetening it.
But since we know they are slow to respond, even if they are responsive, I think it's reasonable to believe they'll eventually do one or the other.
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: hey -- so there it is, even as I was posting ... good to see my faith in Prodos is fulfilled.
I hate to say it but I wish it was Mantic handling this license. We would be at £350,000 or more, most likely we would have beta rules and game play videos not to mention hordes of Aliens.
Manchu wrote: One wonders that if a nearly unknown company like Prodos could get the license why Mantic did not.
Also, I would not be comfortable with Mantic-quality on this project. Mantic makes great stuff but I think this needs a bit more detail.
Easier to control.
Also, I really wish we could get more pics of this.
Prodos wrote:As many of you know Mark (and wife) of Prodos Games is expecting a baby!
We were hoping to give this one out as a present when the baby came, but obviously some people are upset about the £185K Stretch Goal...so the present announcement comes early:
When baby comes and if we are above £170k everyone at 'Payback Time!' or higher will get an additional £10 of addons.
Add-ons are on Mark
Come on Baby! Make Mark pay......
Okay, but you've still made a reallyBS'y move. Seriously, why can't you change it? Just replace it with another model option or sculpt. Do this at the end of the Kickstarter, not now.
I'm glad that Prodos have seen the light, and hope all goes well with the new baby! Does Prodos really just have a couple of guys running it?
Manchu wrote: One wonders that if a nearly unknown company like Prodos could get the license why Mantic did not.
Also, I would not be comfortable with Mantic-quality on this project. Mantic makes great stuff but I think this needs a bit more detail.
I think Prodos must have shown their quality Warzone stuff to them and they were impressed with the detail. I agree entirely with the second line, could just imagine my nitpicking (and others) if this was a Mantic job.
The Aliens license has been out there for a while as far as I know. over the summer I was looking into some different IPs with Game Salute and they said Aliens was available. I didn't really have the cash in place to sink into the game to make it great. Ya snooze ya lose
Glad Prodos is doing the models justice, they look awesome so far
Spinner wrote: You know, what I really like about these guys is that they're willing to admit to - and correct - their mistakes. That, and they seem like very friendly folks.
Congratulations, Mark and Mark's Wife!
Totally agreed! But darn it, why did the "add-ons only" pledge level have to be under Payback Time, grrr
Hmm, maybe next week I'll see if I can up my pledge level or not, it is tempting. Not super tempting though, there isn't a lot of USCM stuff to go around.
As far as AvP licence holders are concerned there's no difference between Mantic and Prodos, except for the quality of the product they offer. I don't think anyone would expect Mantic to get bullish about what they can and cannot do with the licence.
Today is more about moving pledges around than adding backs. Plus, we're talking about people crossing the $300 mark which seems to be a kind of glass ceiling for KS backers.
Well, the day has most of the way to go yet, and of course they anounced a much better one (even though it doesn't apply to me!) later.
The sweet spot has definitely gotten higher on these campaigns, though- hopefully 75 pounds gets some more love, as the 125 pound level is $200 before shipping.
Well say what you like, but they do listen to feedback.
--scratch this--
I hear those pre-heresy power armour kits keep their value quite well and I'm never getting around to an army for a game I've lost all interest in anymore anyway...
The Aliens and Predator licenses have a HUGE following, the problem with this kickstarter is that it is catering to a small niche of that following that are also gaming hobbyists.
I think this KS would have been huge if the base game was more accessible to the non-hobbyist following with some special rewards thrown in for hobbyists.
As it is now many of us are waiting for more info about the retail version of the game.
Visceral_Mass wrote: The Aliens and Predator licenses have a HUGE following, the problem with this kickstarter is that it is catering to a small niche of that following that are also gaming hobbyists.
I think this KS would have been huge if the base game was more accessible to the non-hobbyist following with some special rewards thrown in for hobbyists.
As it is now many of us are waiting for more info about the retail version of the game.
I think the retail version, if marketed correctly, will be a big seller. I was really hoping they would include it in this KS.
Since Update 11, when the 185k goal was announced, the KS has made nearly 5000 GBP. There are 7 less Real Aliens level backers and 15 more If It Bleeds level backers. So, assuming a few things, about 44% of today's gains so far can be attributed to the 185k goal.
Now, assuming the new 170k goal is in addition to the 185k goal, If It Bleeds backers are getting 75 GBP over their pledge amount (26%+ discount) while Real Aliens backers are only getting 35 GBP over their pledge amount (18%+ discount), without taking any free add-ons/upgrades into account. That's likely driving it, too.
It hasn't. Miniature Kickstarters tend to spike at the start and finish, which Kicktraq does not reflect.
They're not accurate this early in the process. As a general rule, Kickstarters tend to have a starting spike that is roughly equal to the ending on in a moderately well run campaign with a central plateau that doesn't change much. Some kickstarters buck the trend though depending on developments during the campaign (like mars attack having a relatively small tail whereas others like myth exceed their initial surges). While it could still be completely inaccurate, I'd say add the first 72 hours worth to the total and extend out the average of the last few days to towards the rest of the campaign and you'll have a decent estimate.
warboss wrote: Prodos has every right to manipulate and tweak the stretch goals as they see fit for their own benefit. As a KS pledger, it's up to you to tell them via your pledge if the goal is really to their benefit at the expense of the customer base. If you're unhappy, drop your pledge down to 1 GBP as there in effect are no "limited" pledges like early birds and you have nothing to lose. You can just increase it after if you feel the mistake has been corrected. Kickstarters are a collaborative process and the people holding the money also hold some power (at least while the funding is ongoing).
Exalted.
Kvetching only does so much. Put your money where your mouth is and drop tour funding to show how ridiculous you feel their deal is.
Like EF Hutton, when money talks, people listen...
It is the quickest and most succinct way to show displeasure at what they are trying to sell you.
It's an estimation based on the previous day, which means they generally project HUGE numbers (especially for big/popular franchises/campaigns) that then become more reasonable towards the end, at which point the predictions are essentially worthless.
The daily data can be interesting to track the ebb and flow of funds and backers, but the estimations are pure fantasy, and they outright note themselves that they aren't predictions, merely extrapolations.
Plus, it's impossible to tell how the final 48 hour run (when the reminder emails go out) will do, but it's generally a good boost, if not outright rockin'.
I would have loved to back it. At this price, i will not make any effort in that direction. The initial products seens to have to little stuff for to many money. And the expansions are not helping it.
I mean, 75 libs for 23 miniatures? Plus some hard paper corridors and cards? Those prices seens stupid like GW, and we are at the KS.
Not for me, and i just wanted to make it clear why it is not for me.
...plus five facehuggers, plus two individual models, plus another unit of five...
by the looks of their casting quality, the price point is exceptional and actually supplying reasonably good (for resin!) quality models at below GW's plastic prices. I think you're missing something here.
I also note that comment volume remains very high today. Between Monday and Tuesday, comments skyrocketed by 71% and were accompanied by a 10% increase in both backers and pounds pledged. Although comments remained just as high yesterday, both backers and pounds pledged dropped from Tuesday (by about 18% and 14% respectively). Today looks like it will generate the same amount if not more comments than the last two days but pledges and backers are even further down so far, too.
What was the magic of November 12? That was the day Prodos announced another free add-on stretch goal. Lo and behold, the day the other free add-on was announced was also their best day (by far) in all of comments, backers, and pounds pledged. So the moral of the story is that while adding add-on pounds to certain pledge levels can sustain a good amount of discussion, it doesn't really drive either of people getting behind the project or overall funding amounts. Based on my earlier analysis, however, it can help squeeze a little more money out of folks who are already pledging a lot.
Free add-on/upgrade pledges appear to be the aces up Prodos's sleeve in practice as well as theory. If today continues to slow down then so will tomorrow unless Prodos does a sneak peak at whatever (if anything) lies between 185k and 200k+. On the other hand, the weekend is coming up and that's a slow down on it's own. So I doubt we'll hear much until Monday, which will then hopefully prime the whole week.
And just for lolz, can you guys imagine what people would do if we got all the way up to the Queen and it turned out she was a free upgrade???
The pricing is rather nonsensical, especially once one starts to break down what is in the 75GBP pledge versus the components by themselves. This situation leads to some almost hilarious results if one is more focused on the Predator side of things.
So, if you're interested in Preds, going for the 75GBP pledge nets you the base game with the 3 man unit, a Fem Pred for free, a 'Zerker and then the Hounds.
If you buy these ala carte, it's 65 GBP (assuming that you could buy a Zerker for 10GBP, which apparently you can't?).
Spoiler:
One can go in two general ways from that info: the first is that the base pledge is a great deal.
The second is to say Whoa, they have jacked up the prices on the Preds something crazy. Which, unless one assumes that the cards, boards, terrain, facehuggers, Xenos and Marines are all stupid cheap, seems pretty clearly a winner.
Visceral_Mass wrote: The Aliens and Predator licenses have a HUGE following, the problem with this kickstarter is that it is catering to a small niche of that following that are also gaming hobbyists.
I think this KS would have been huge if the base game was more accessible to the non-hobbyist following with some special rewards thrown in for hobbyists.
As it is now many of us are waiting for more info about the retail version of the game.
I think the retail version, if marketed correctly, will be a big seller. I was really hoping they would include it in this KS.
The retail version will have single piece plastics, which makes the retail edition more geared towards the casual players while this version right now is geared towards us table-toppers.
Manchu wrote: Try the same analysis on the other factions.
Aliens get 55 quid in the box (3x5 man units, facehuggers), plus predalien (10 quid) from one list, and an alien warrior unit from the other for a total of 80 quid in add-on value.
USCM get 15 quid in the box, 10 quid in sentry guns and 15 quid in a second unit. total: 40 quid
Preds get 30 quid in the box, 10 quid pred 'zerker, 10 quid female pred, 15 quid hounds. total: 65 quid.
if you like either aliens or preds, or USCM and slightly like some other things, going for one or more base boxes is a complete no-brainer.
Only thing I'm not sure about (and won't really bother wondering about until it makes sense, e.g. at the end, when stretches and add-ons are all revealed) is whether to get a 75 quid pledge, and a pledge for either 75 quid or some higher level, or to just get the 210 quid pledge. As it stands going for two separate pledges wins out, in my mind.
BrookM wrote: The retail version will have single piece plastics, which makes the retail edition more geared towards the casual players while this version right now is geared towards us table-toppers.
Which means less people will pledge. Wouldn't it have made more sense to cater to the larger portion of the fanbase now and use those funds for the hobbyist products later or have them as add-ons?
Bolognesus wrote: As it stands going for two separate pledges wins out, in my mind.
You're missing out on a lot of add-on money, and another set of In The Pipe extras doesn't outweigh that as far as I can tell.
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Visceral_Mass wrote: Which means less people will pledge. Wouldn't it have made more sense to cater to the larger portion of the fanbase now and use those funds for the hobbyist products later or have them as add-ons?
I think probably not. The niche market customer is willing to spend more up front than the generalized customer, whose purchase will depend much more on retail-driven low price and of course impulse buying/immediate gratification.
Pretty awesome. Assuming all losses in backers at the 155 level pledged up to 210, the 185k/170k goals could be responsible for as much as 84% of that. There's still a way to go before catching up to yesterday, however, much less Tuesday.
Manchu wrote: I think probably not. The niche market customer is willing to spend more up front than the generalized customer, whose purchase will depend much more on retail-driven low price and of course impulse buying/immediate gratification.
I think you are underestimating the potential of the Aliens/Predator fans who are not hobbyists. I for one would have pledged for at least 2 boxed sets had they not been geared towards the hobbyists and I would have added at least 2 of ANY other items that were ready to play right out of the box. The customer that drives the sales of the action figures and statues and comics is where the true money is, not in the hobbyists.
Counting on resale value for the exclusive model you can't buy extras of, but I'll admit I'm kind of banking on several more stretch goals applying to lower levels as well.
Actually, doing the math, you're right (assuming we hit 185k funding @ 2k backers and then stop) assuming the pred zerkers don't go crazy in value afterwards due to not being an add-on.
Figure that really shows I hadn't done the math entirely until you called me on it, then
Bolognesus wrote: Figure that really shows I hadn't done the math entirely until you called me on it, then
Well as you point out, we don't have all the info just yet so it's not decision time anyway. For me, whether I'm in for a second copy really comes down to those tiles, which I know sounds odd but I'm pretty content at the 155 level otherwise (esp. with Christmas coming up and all).
Visceral_Mass wrote: The customer that drives the sales of the action figures and statues and comics is where the true money is, not in the hobbyists.
We're not disagreeing on that point. But KS is not where you get to that market -- you get to those guys in discount retail.
I disagree with that as KS is for funding, not a sales method designed to reach a specific market, such as hobbyists. Granted it can be used that way, but it seems like you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you could have reached a larger group of people willing to help fund your project if you just broadened your project's appeal, especially when you were already planning on doing it any way.
Visceral_Mass wrote: The customer that drives the sales of the action figures and statues and comics is where the true money is, not in the hobbyists.
We're not disagreeing on that point. But KS is not where you get to that market -- you get to those guys in discount retail.
I disagree with that as KS is for funding, not a sales method designed to reach a specific market
That pretty well proves my point about mass market retail. But it depends on your market. Hobbyists have shown tremendous responsiveness to KS. What Prodos is doing makes perfect sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bolognesus wrote: Oh I know what you mean, regarding those tiles; I'd like some decent-enough set-up-a-dungeon cardboard for sci-fi purposes.
I doubt they'll be Spulk 2009 good but I am hoping for thick, coated cardboard. I'd also like to get a better view of the pieces to evaluate the detail and variety.
Still haven't gotten my mitts on spulk09 properly so can't speak to that but I'd be more than fine with Zombicide quality, from what I've seen of my ZCS2 delivery at a glance
Manchu wrote: Hobbyists have shown tremendous responsiveness to KS. What Prodos is doing makes perfect sense.
Fans of specific licenses and gamers of all types have shown tremendous responsiveness to KS, it depends on the project's appeal. What would have made perfect sense (if funding the game is truly their goal) is having a project that appeals to as many people as possible instead of catering to a specific group.
Dammit Manchu, when I get paid I'll be going in for "If it bleeds"! Prodos combined with your logic will see me part with my monies.
I think seeing the tiles will be the main thing. 20 "Drones", 10 "Runners", and all the other gubbins will be sweet. Hopefully the boardgame scales well that you can combine two sets (or more) of tiles.
I wonder what stretch goal the main rulebook for tabletop play will be...
EDIT: Also when you sign up to kickstarter do you enter your full name as a "forum" name and your details are hidden or do you need to put your actual name first? (not that it really matters)
Oh, right there's your mistake. This isn't about funding anything really, as far as I can tell. This is about getting resin multi-piece models to hobbyists on the way to retail.
Manchu wrote: if funding the game is truly their goal
Oh, right there's your mistake. This isn't about funding anything really, as far as I can tell. This is about getting resin multi-piece models to hobbyists on the way to retail.
Not a mistake, my whole point is they could have made crazy amounts of money if they kickstarted the retail game as it would have allowed them to bypass the middleman (the distributors). Plus the extra money might have allowed them to offer those hobbyist figures for a little cheaper.
Visceral_Mass wrote: my whole point is they could have made crazy amounts of money if they kickstarted the retail game as it would have allowed them to bypass the middleman (the distributors)
That's far from clear. Plus they're obviously not ready to deal with retail numbers yet. KS can get big but it's not a lot, at least in terms of miniatures sales, when compared to retail on big IP products. AvP is a contender thanks to its name but a little company like Prodos has to do things gingerly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: The tiles shown so far still look like prototypes, so hopefully we'll get to see the actual final products before the campaign is over.
Yes, here's hoping. I'm really, really hoping that a lot of this stuff is actually done but is held back by stretch goals we still need to unlock. I mean, that has it's own bad points but it's better than so much not being in good shape to show up close or talk about in detail.
There should be a single freebie pledge IMO and the company should reward bigger pledgers but keeping it simple and giving them multiples of the "freebie" pledge level. Pledging twice the freebie level? You get twice the freebies. The structure of getting benefit A at pledge level 1 but getting benefit B only at pledge level 2 which is double pledge level 1 when benefit B isn't twice benefit A because benefit C is combined with it is as confusing in the KS as it is in this giant run-on sentence.
I think it comes off as more confusing than it is because there's no graphic really laying it out yet and I know there probably won't be until at least 185k.
Huh. Thought I registered here years ago but perhaps it got purged. Or maybe I never did. *Shrug*
Been following this thread because this is how I found out about the Kickstarter (Was looking up good 28mm Alien subs when this post came up in the search). Certainly an interesting discussion to read day in and out, as it's been the most active of any forum I am on.
I just registered to make a quick point about why the Kickstarter is happening. I'm fairly sure it's been said in the comments by Prodos and it's somewhere on the page itself (I'm not interested in searching for it) that the Kickstarter is there largely to fund projects for AvP that would likely be 12-24 months down the line. Prodos itself is not a large operation (I certainly hadn't heard of them before now), so they probably can't raise the same amount of capital to start taking risks on these things immediately. Sure, it could turn out huge for them... but if it doesn't, that's a terrible loan to be carrying. To that end, I can understand why they are doing the Kickstarter.
On the comments thing: I've been following along rather intently, and this Kickstarter seems to have a LOT of people who are very active in the comments, including a guy who is actively trolling people by the name of Troy (Apparently he pledged $1 or something just so he could comment). So the comments section is rather unpredictable and active.
As for me, I'm trying to build up some capital to get that $340 (US) pledge. While I've put down my fair share of money for expensive figures, but at the moment I'm a bit short on cash. Given the add-ons they are tossing out, it's getting hard for me not to pledge. Admittedly they've had some mistakes in how they rolled things out (Some of the vagueness which is still around, Not saying there would be free stretch goals, not having a non-box pledge goal at the start, the recent kerfluffle about giving the higher pledgers a stretch goal just for them), I think they've shown a willingness to correct themselves quickly that makes me feel much better about them running things.
Oh, and if/when I do pledge: Is anyone interested in getting two extra tilesets at a discount? I build WorldWorks terrain, so I really don't need them. It would just be the tilesets, not cards, dice, or anything else.
Ok time for more speculating then? Further stretch goals are an Alien mini, a game-based add-on, a Predator mini, a USCM mini, another Alien mini and then the Queen.
So for the Alien goals, we've been told that there's going to be a creature from the AVP arcade game. Of these, there's only two unique creatures - Chrysalis and Razor Claws. Of the two, Chrysalis is more likely since Razor Claws seems to be a one-off creature... plus the Chrysalis looks so much cooler. I imagine it'll be the last Alien add-on before the Queen... of course, assuming this is true anyway. As for the other Alien add-on, it's a bit of a mystery. If they don't dig into the EU more then I'd have to venture a guess at Chestbursters.
For the game add-on, it's almost certainly a hardcover rulebook. Fingers crossed for it being a free add-on since the rulebook doesn't seem to be included in the box...
The Predator mini is probably cloaked Predators in clear resin, since Prodos has said that these exist. If not then my only other guess is an Ancient Predator... although now that I think about it, that'd be pretty badass.
For the USCM, fingers crossed on a power loader. Holy crap would that ever be cool!
Manchu wrote: Pity about that Troy thing, hopefully it's past. It'd be nice to keep that kind of anomaly out of the data.
Looks like someone reported him for spamming, so perhaps he won't be commenting for a while. Who knows, though. Even without him, this whole thing has a rather unusually talky community to it.
I know what you mean about too good not to pledge. I'm wondering it that 210 mark will ultimately sound the same to me.
Yeah. Originally I was thinking about the Real Aliens level, but then I realized I was really just doubling up on the box components at the start.
We really need some more media, whether vids or pics or what have you, to find out.
Yeah, I agree. I'm a rather avid wargamer and rules whore, and I've yet to play Prodos' ruleset. I'm interested in seeing how it runs, because if I like it I will totally adapt it to other things it could fit. If not, I'll always have Tomorrow's War, Stargrunt 2, The Regiment, 5150, and a half-dozen other rules I can use for it. It's not a big deal, but it's sort of an icing thing that I would like. Plus more shots of the models is always a good thing (though their recent graphic reveals a bit more about the poses you can put them in; I can hash out roughly how the Aliens look from it).
warboss wrote: There should be a single freebie pledge IMO and the company should reward bigger pledgers but keeping it simple and giving them multiples of the "freebie" pledge level. Pledging twice the freebie level? You get twice the freebies. The structure of getting benefit A at pledge level 1 but getting benefit B only at pledge level 2 which is double pledge level 1 when benefit B isn't twice benefit A because benefit C is combined with it is as confusing in the KS as it is in this giant run-on sentence.
What I do (parttime for now but still) nowadays is basically not-accountant's-work-but-working-closely-with-them and I had to spend five minutes running numbers between just two options after Manchu called me on it.
...And promptly turned out to have been wrong.
So yeah, I agree. I was toying with the idea of a way to apply 'subjective' value to certain objects in certain quantities (like to have 10 marines very much, ten more somewhat, over that - no use so non-linear "emodollar" values for different amounts of the same thing, basically) and using a spreadsheet to figure out what would be best at what budget, for your subjective needs.
Just a funny idea, nothing serious. Still, I figure for something like bones (or bones II), or mars attacks, or Mierce's stuff, it would have been easy enough - the things to consider before you can get it to halfway work with this monster of a project pile up staggeringly quick, though.
And that's just 8 pledge levels (most of which should be on a scale of increasing value for money for bigger pledges no matter, theoretically) with only 17 add-ons, some of which are dice, and most of which are base game components.
I don't think I've ever seen a KS as convoluted as this and after some of Mantic's offerings (anyone remember that KoWKS page by the end? Good God...) that is a problem.
Take CMoN (and yeah, I know...): ZCS2 had a few pledge levels, and just straight-up add-ons. Value was just there, and there was no reasonable way you would ever have to make any complex considerations (reminding people they're actually not that smart while asking them for money is generally a bad idea... ) anywhere near this level; Mantic's MA was more complex, but even there, once you got your head around the pledge credit system, it was pretty straightforward.
This? Feth, I'm not even going to bother - every time a new stretch gets added you can start all over again; certain bits of pledge credit only apply to certain add-ons, there's different thresholds for what level of stretch benefits you get... Feth... I'll have to basically know **precisely** what I want, complete with well-considered "subjective" values to myself quantified in a nice (and probably hideous, at that point) excel sheet, and just do cold hard math the last fifteen minutes of the fething project.
I don't really mind, I'm sufficiently fanatical to do it and it has a certain charm but it's not something I'd consider good sales practice.
And with the way certain bits of pledge credit are only available to use on certain models I'm not blind-pledging and hoping for a chance to throw in a few quid more, worst come to.
...They really, really should open up that selective credit for general use, at least for higher pledges (say, 155 and up or so, I can understand not wanting to give a praetorian with a bare basic box pledge somewhat).
Andilus Greatsword wrote: For the game add-on, it's almost certainly a hardcover rulebook. Fingers crossed for it being a free add-on since the rulebook doesn't seem to be included in the box...
I think the old pictures showed a pamphlet like rulebook for the boardgame. The hardcover rulebook will be for the war game. I doubt it will be free.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Ok time for more speculating then? Further stretch goals are an Alien mini, a game-based add-on, a Predator mini, a USCM mini, another Alien mini and then the Queen.
So for the Alien goals, we've been told that there's going to be a creature from the AVP arcade game. Of these, there's only two unique creatures - Chrysalis and Razor Claws. Of the two, Chrysalis is more likely since Razor Claws seems to be a one-off creature... plus the Chrysalis looks so much cooler. I imagine it'll be the last Alien add-on before the Queen... of course, assuming this is true anyway. As for the other Alien add-on, it's a bit of a mystery. If they don't dig into the EU more then I'd have to venture a guess at Chestbursters.
Hm. There's a lot of material to crib from the comics, but I'm kind of at a loss to put my finger on just one thing. I don't think it'll be chestbursters, though. Perhaps an intermediate stage between Warrior and Praetorian? Elite Warrior? Stealth Drone?
For the game add-on, it's almost certainly a hardcover rulebook. Fingers crossed for it being a free add-on since the rulebook doesn't seem to be included in the box...
Yeah, it's just a download, isn't it? A Hardcover rulebook would definitely be a nice thing, though you'll likely have to put down some cash on it. I'm hoping for synthetics here, more than anything.
The Predator mini is probably cloaked Predators in clear resin, since Prodos has said that these exist. If not then my only other guess is an Ancient Predator... although now that I think about it, that'd be pretty badass.
Definitely. I think it's going to end up as the cloaked ones, but an Elder Predator could be REALLY cool if done properly.
For the USCM, fingers crossed on a power loader. Holy crap would that ever be cool!
As much as I know it is going to be exactly that, I kind of want it to be Marine Support Weapons like the SADAR, a sniper, and other things that could be great for the wargame. Hell, the SADAR would be pretty damn useful against the Queen.
That's a great rules set. I just think AvP needs something a little more zoomed in with more RPG elements.
Yeah, I love AAG, and I do kind of agree here. But I've got ideas on how to hack in more RPG elements into TW if I need to, like assigning dice to individual statistics rather than all around (Offense, Defense, Melee, etc...). But hopefully these rules will be as interesting as those.
A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.
...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for
Bolognesus wrote: A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.
...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for
Heh, definitely. I have the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, and I'd point out that the ghillie suit the sniper has also regulates his heat signature. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking they could find every human using thermals, eh?
I don't think we'll see any more Alien units than the ones we already know are on the way.
Face Huggers (Fuggers anyone?), Drones, Runners, Warriors, Praetorians, PredAlien & Queen.
Predators need an Elder or elite model. Something with a spear at any rate.
I hope the Berserker Pred, because he's a one off will look badass and more armoured/substantially bigger than the regular Preds.
What I really, really, really want to see for the marines is a badass female commando like Vasquez. Hell just make Vasquez and give her a different name. Without knowing the rules I'm just going to go ahead and say she needs a special rule... prizes for what I think it should be called...
Bolognesus wrote: A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.
...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for
Heh, definitely. I have the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, and I'd point out that the ghillie suit the sniper has also regulates his heat signature. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking they could find every human using thermals, eh?
...crap, no option for TO on that unit. Well, I might still have to get creative with a weapon swap or two, then
It is kind of a weird sensation; the marines are supposed to be something akin to cannon(/alien) fodder, but there's three times as many aliens as there are marines just in the box. Three preds vs. fifteen aliens I can see happening but five marines? they ought to have trouble with one or two, really.
It's half of what they had in Aliens...maybe they got mauled prior to the board game's start? Either that or they got hit before coming out of stasis. Now there's a way to wake up!
Perhaps the high number of aliens is to compensate for them potentially not all starting on the table (randomly coming out of walls, terrain, etc. over the course of the game)
If the comments get out of hand again, here's what to do about it. Apparently KS support acts really quickly on stuff like this!
Spoiler:
If people want to report Troy for trolling, unfortunately its not easy due to the KS contact system, however you can click Contact (bottom of page), then questions about pledging to a project, then Other, in the title put "person trolling comments", include a link to Troy's profile (http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/950983549) and the date and rough time he admitted trolling (14/11/13, approx 21:50 uk time) If enough people report him they will act
Wow, fast turn around on KS support, look what i just got in email after reporting the troll Kickstarter Support, Nov 14 18:05 (EST): Hi David, Thanks for writing in and letting us know about this. We take spam behavior very seriously and will take the appropriate action according to our Community Guidelines: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/community. Apologies for any inconvenience. Best, Megan
Good to know they keep an eye on that stuff / basically have some moderators over there, at least!
Yeah I know- and if you look through his past comments, he acted very similarly on Sedition Wars and Zombicide kickstarters.
It's pretty clear Kickstarter did something, though, as he suddenly stopped posting . He was in pretty clear violoation of this part of their rules... which is pretty much the same as "Be Polite" over here, except that there you shouldn't even be able to comment on a campaign you truly dislike, as you aren't a backer.
Kickstarter Rules wrote:Be respectful and considerate
If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be a jerk.
It was interesting to browse through his comments... especially the Sedition Wars stuff where I thought he was trolling by posting that he'd just destroyed all his minis before asking for a refund but then was shocked to find out that that's actually what CMoN are asking backers on that KS to do. 0_o
scarletsquig wrote: It was interesting to browse through his comments... especially the Sedition Wars stuff where I thought he was trolling by posting that he'd just destroyed all his minis before asking for a refund but then was shocked to find out that that's actually what CMoN are asking backers on that KS to do. 0_o
This might be a bit off topic, but CMoN was asking what?
Apparently, they could get a refund if they proved that they destroyed their copy of the game, or somesuch madness. Probably best to discus that over here, though.
If it truly has come to that, though... whoa . At least quality shouldn't be an issue here, with hand cast resin miniatures, just price!
It's funny you mention that because I was just thinking about why we can't have a nice clear rule like KS has. Being a discussion forum, we can't just say "if you don't want to back it, don't post about it." That would be a neat solution BUT it also wouldn't be a reasonable one because this isn't a storefront as it were. We're more like a bar. People come here to complain, among other things. The don't be a jerk part is still valid, of course. But that's hardly a bright line.
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Bolognesus wrote: the marines are supposed to be something akin to cannon(/alien) fodder
I don't think that's necessarily accurate. All the games and even parts of Aliens (the James Cameron movie) point to the xenomorphs being the real canon fodder.
I agree with Manchu, in my mental images the bulk of the Marines will die eventually, but the questions is how many Xenos will they take down along the way?
Edit: But then you also have the popular Inverse Ninja rule in play.
The more of something there is, the more less badass it is.
Same deal with Preds, a lone pred can take out almost the whole merc team (Predator) but when there are multiple Preds less equipped humans can kill them easier (Predators)
Maybe the smartgun will be really powerful evening out the marines lack of numbers, and if I see right they have a flamer int he tunit also right? those 2 combined with 3 pulse rifles is quite punchy.
Granted it's not 3 predator punchy levels, but maybe the game balances it and not everything is used at once in any missions.
I'd like to see some more marine weapon variants, SMG, Battle rifle, and have a SADAR as an upgrade 1-2 shot thing.
Wouldn't surprise me if they do throw in an exo loader to even out the marines Vs the bigger Aliens and preds.
Over All they still have tons of types for each of the aliens, marines and predator factions to make models for... and if i remember was there mention of 6 factions? if so Weyland, maybe pirate, mercs (Like the smallcrew in resurection or a berserker team and for the third government forces or an explorer corp.
I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.
The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.
happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.
adlard.matthew wrote: I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.
The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.
happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.
I thought they did a decent lead up. And they have a board game with listed contents, a KS version with resin figures and later in 2014 a retail version with 1 piece plastic figs. They are making a 'wargame' as well. and we know the rules for that will be based on their Warzone rules. We know that the resin figures will be available after the KS for use in the wargame. I'm really not sure how you translate all that into "we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these". It would seem they have a pretty good idea where they are going with this.
I seem to recall just one of the buggers being a huge threat already, somehow - but I could well be mistaken and in any case, Vain's Inverse Ninja rule certainly does apply.
Bolognesus wrote: I seem to recall just one of the buggers being a huge threat already, somehow - but I could well be mistaken and in any case, Vain's Inverse Ninja rule certainly does apply.
In the first movie (granted, that was just a ship's crew, not Marines). Inverse Ninja rule, indeed!
Who knows? Give them their own deck of faction specific cards and we'll see what happens. Or have them run around with small arms and home-made pyrotechnics.
BrookM wrote: Who knows? Give them their own deck of faction specific cards and we'll see what happens. Or have them run around with small arms and home-made pyrotechnics.
Perhaps access to one-man construction equipment? Perhaps an exo-suit of sorts?
Do you think Prodos will eventually be selling the resin units in boxes a la Warzone Ressurection? I'm not sure if I have the funds to back but I really want to get my hands on some AvP models.
Obviously I cannot speak for everyone else, but I would rather see an actual combat exosuit than the loader. The loader might be iconic for the films but it was the fact that it was a last ditch effort which made it so special and iconic.
Do you think Prodos will eventually be selling the resin units in boxes a la Warzone Ressurection? I'm not sure if I have the funds to back but I really want to get my hands on some AvP models.
Kanluwen wrote: Obviously I cannot speak for everyone else, but I would rather see an actual combat exosuit than the loader. The loader might be iconic for the films but it was the fact that it was a last ditch effort which made it so special and iconic.
Hypothetically, here's how I'll allocate my pledge (two of the add-on only "Looking good there, boss!" ones, plus a bit extra) if the Queen costs 50 pounds.
3 Queens
3 Praetorians
6 PredAliens (4 free, 2 gotten from trading my 2 Berserker Predators, which I've already worked out)
20 Alien Warriors (10 free)
10 Facehuggers (free)
3 sets of dice
If the Queen is less, I get to add more of something else. If it's 5 pounds more, the dice are the first to go. If it's 10 pounds more, I'm a sad panda and have to make a tough choice... or maybe another stretch goal will allow me to free up funds currently allocated to other models.
adlard.matthew wrote: I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.
The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.
happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.
I thought they did a decent lead up. And they have a board game with listed contents, a KS version with resin figures and later in 2014 a retail version with 1 piece plastic figs. They are making a 'wargame' as well. and we know the rules for that will be based on their Warzone rules. We know that the resin figures will be available after the KS for use in the wargame. I'm really not sure how you translate all that into "we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these". It would seem they have a pretty good idea where they are going with this.
Because its vague as hell. No idea how the game plays or in what direction they plan on doing with it other than " this is a board game, but we poan on making another game where you can give us much monies using more of these models."
That's it. Period.
There are no numinous discussions by the creators with their backers about where they want this to go and how they are going to do it and why. The consumer base would hqve to have some rules in order for such a discussion to have any context.
The lead up to the ks was fine. But after the ks was launched, they should have had videos, demo rules, etc. in place.
I only need the models. I would like for there to be a good game inside that to add value to my purchase. But most people are buying this as a game. And in that regard, Prodos have utterly failed in portraying whatever the hell that is. Expecting people to just buy it sight unseen.
That gak might have worked for sedition wars, but we've grown wiser since such incidents and have become more discerning. ITS A MAJOR REASON WHY THIS PROJECT IS NOT MORE SUCCESSFUL.
I have no idea what type of presentation they approached Fox with in order to get this license, but if it is ANYTHING like the tripe they are shoveling down the throats of the b public, then Fox is comprised of a larger group of idiots than I originally thought.
And that's saying a lot. Have you SEEN those AVP movies... ?
It's hardly as bad as all that. I'm as eager to hear more about the box components and the rules as anyone but I reckon it will come along in due time. If we get to the last couple of days and there's still nothing, then we can both freak out.
Manchu wrote: I bet we'll get more discussion of rules once the hardcover war game rule book is unlocked.
Where does thisninfo come from, and how is that even remotely relevant to how the board game plays? So in another 40k - 60k we get to see what the wargame rules are or any rules for that matter?
If what you assume is even remotely true, its proof posotive that Prodos are fething ignorqnt.
Prodos have been quick to answer my questions on KS, so credit to them on that front. Although didn't answer two of the three questions. Hope that means that they are in the process of doing it, rather than having not done it at all. (Questions surrounding the rulebook/how the game plays)
It's usually about this time we get an update or comment from them isn't it? (Quarter to Five GMT)
You're getting a mite frothy there, Hellfury, so it's a bit hard to understand you. When you ask about the source of "thisninfo" are you talking about the hardcover war game rule book? It's from the KS page. Prodos listed it as an example stretch goal from the beginning. If you're asking about when more rule info will come out ... that's just my speculation. TBH, anyone who wanted to learn a bit about the rules could hit up Warzone Resurrection backers because Prodos has already announced the rules will be based on that game.
I'm not freaking out. I want this to succeed very well, but I'm also not going to sit idly by while people shake their heads as if this is a well run project and there is no room to criticize like I see being bandied about by many commenters.
This project could be run a lot better is the point I'm attempting to make. A counterpoint to those who think there is more transparency than there actually is.
Other than people guessing baby weights this was quite interesting to see.
Ropya 4 minutes ago
@Prodos,
Sine you're here.
Can you confirm something for me.
All the extra figures, add ons and such, that are not in the base game.
Do they come with cards / rules / stats what have you to mmake them usable in both the base game and the war game,?
I figure they do but was hoping for confirmation.
Video is quite long, but it seems to detail Warzone, at least in Beta, so might be able to extract something from that. If somebody knows of a clearer or more concise run down of the rules throw a link in the thread!
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@Prodos,
Thank for the confirmation
I thought that was the case.
Couldn't imagine they wouldn't.
But there was some debate on a forum J can get cleared up now.
.
One other question, and I apologizeif this has aalready been asked.
The higher detailed resin figures were getting here, besides any exclusives, will they be available for purchase done the road come retail release?
So I'd I wanted to continue to expand my forces with like quality minis, will I be able to?
Robin Rosengren 1 minute ago
Is it just "In the pipe" that get the 2k backer bonus? As it says in the update?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 12 minutes ago
Robin in the pipe and above.
The ones in the box will not be in the box. Whether they are sold as expansions is yet to be seen. Even if they are all addons wont appear until earliest early 2015 .
Thanks .
Bolded and underlined the most important part. Seems to suggest these won't be available for general release until 2015! If this is meant to ship in May 2014, what's the delay?
Kanluwen wrote: Obviously I cannot speak for everyone else, but I would rather see an actual combat exosuit than the loader. The loader might be iconic for the films but it was the fact that it was a last ditch effort which made it so special and iconic.
No you can't speak for everyone bloody else!
Kind of agree though.. would love to see an exo-suit for some kind of special scenario (either one from Aliens, or even with civvies trying to fight off aliens using whatever they have to hand), but one of the armoured suits from the comics/books would also be pretty cool..
If they can get the rulebook out for Tabletop Game it would be grand. Rather than having minis with no rules. Not that it would bother me, but it might put a lot of people off.
You're probably right about the boardgame sculpts being the reason for the delay. I suppose that time will be used to get the boardgame out ready for whatever is going on with the 25th Anniversary (I'm sure somebody said that earlier) next year.
adlard.matthew wrote: I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.
The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.
happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.
I thought they did a decent lead up. And they have a board game with listed contents, a KS version with resin figures and later in 2014 a retail version with 1 piece plastic figs. They are making a 'wargame' as well. and we know the rules for that will be based on their Warzone rules. We know that the resin figures will be available after the KS for use in the wargame. I'm really not sure how you translate all that into "we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these". It would seem they have a pretty good idea where they are going with this.
Because its vague as hell. No idea how the game plays or in what direction they plan on doing with it other than " this is a board game, but we poan on making another game where you can give us much monies using more of these models."
That's it. Period.
There are no numinous discussions by the creators with their backers about where they want this to go and how they are going to do it and why. The consumer base would hqve to have some rules in order for such a discussion to have any context.
The lead up to the ks was fine. But after the ks was launched, they should have had videos, demo rules, etc. in place.
I only need the models. I would like for there to be a good game inside that to add value to my purchase. But most people are buying this as a game. And in that regard, Prodos have utterly failed in portraying whatever the hell that is. Expecting people to just buy it sight unseen.
That gak might have worked for sedition wars, but we've grown wiser since such incidents and have become more discerning. ITS A MAJOR REASON WHY THIS PROJECT IS NOT MORE SUCCESSFUL.
A little more cordial than one would have put it, but answers and what i was going to say.
Do not get me wrong one is backing this and will support, however this would IMHO been better with more lead up and hints/sneaks.
The extra time build up could have gone towards some bettr looking board tiles which do not require any real complexity and rule basics.
One of Mantics real success is that they understand the idea of fan interest by leaking bits an pieces, even just info and picture concepts and letting the masses build up support so when you go for it you have a large fan base that is aware of what your upto. things like promo videos on BoW with Prodos saying what they are trying to achieve etc, are more cost effective as they offer a lot but cost nothing as your not showing figures but building interest and tension.
I suspect another reason they may not be able to show stuff (for unlocks where there is no render yet) or maybe even rules or tiles is that they may need to get whatever they do signed off by the licence holder
so the do the work, ship/email it over to Fox, and wait, and wait etc
(and certainly the re-do on the Predalien suggests Fox has strong opinions of things)
Only for the initial offerings, not the stretch goals (or at least, that's the case here). They said they got the sculptor working on the stretches as soon as it was clear they'd be hit (i.e. Alien Warriors at 100K).
RiTides wrote: Only for the initial offerings, not the stretch goals
So you make an extra short KS for stuff you haven't even received permission to make?
Spoiler:
I mean, I get that they have permission to a sculpt of X, Y, and Z but ... what the customers want to see is an actual sculpt (or at least render) rather than a representation that the sculpt will eventually be done ... you know, after we have your money.
I'm still of the opinion that they should have probably had rough ideas nailed down before putting them as stretch goals. YMMV. I'm still very excited for this overall though.
Have been having a look round these series of tubes to find Warzone figure reviews, was initial looking for battle reports and such, ordered a set of these guys (below) just to see what the Quality is like. If they scale well with the game I could imagine these being good for a mercenary type stand in for marines, private guards etc. If not they are cool in their own right. Lots of really very nice Warzone miniatures... run wallet... run!
I was originally attracted to these by their "not Pulse Rifles".
Well, I want to sculpts more than anyone . Everything I am pledging for, other than the PredAlien, currently doesn't have a sculpt shown. Hopefully, that will change before the campaign is over! But I also don't want them to rush the sculpts, so maybe just a WIP.
I don't think it wasn't that they'd received permission- it sounded like they had permission to make anything and everything. I think it's that, they didn't have the funds... and as soon as it was clear that they would, they got the sculptor going.
I'm not saying that's the right way to do it... I'm saying that's how it is
RiTides wrote: I think it's that, they didn't have the funds... and as soon as it was clear that they would, they got the sculptor going
Seems a bit weak. I doubt the sculptor would need a KS to reach 170k GBP+ before starting on at least sketches. This isn't an unknown property we're talking about.
RiTides wrote: I think it's that, they didn't have the funds... and as soon as it was clear that they would, they got the sculptor going
Seems a bit weak. I doubt the sculptor would need a KS to reach 170k GBP+ before starting on at least sketches. This isn't an unknown property we're talking about.
And correct me if I'm wrong here, as I know very little about the field. But surely once they have the software, there is no additional costs other than man hours to create the computer animated rends?
I don't think it's known that they do the sculpts in-house (my expectation was that they did not). So, they have to pay the sculptor to do the work.
From what I can see, they have used no "sketches" in this campaign, only digital sculpts (likely based on the wealth of existing art that exists for these creations).
Prodos wrote:guys, the game play video will be up tomorrow/ Sunday.
Prodos wrote:@Williams, the vid will include basic info about army construction for Board game (optional and Wargame). Before end of this KS we will issue full set of "army" construction rules + "making your own Hero" rules.
Prodos wrote:@william bidleman - Saturday night (UK time) or Sunday morning (UK time)
The Crusher is a type of Praetorian thought to be evolved from a runner rather than drone. Although other fluff suggests it is unique like a queen and is created by a mutated queen chestburster. So either way it's big.
Prodos wrote:@Rob, next one is Crusher, but keep it for your self ;]
@ Slim, yes ;]
@jelly we are working on this one as well ;] (referencing an alternate Alien heads comment)
Prodos wrote:@wiliam, there is arounf 200 skills to be taken, Aliens gets "Hive" upgrades - every model in the have gains the special skills (based on level of collective experience collected during the game), Predators are different, each model gains experience and its own special skills, for Marines, the experience is collected by Squads (so each squad member gets more skills once they level up) More in the video. There is about 200 special skills to pick from! 200! per side!
2) Me might get Heavy Infantry in the future (post KS) or during if we get approval (long process it is! ;] )
Jarek
That second comment also seems to be referring to the "create your own hero" rules, I think.
Also interesting to know that they need approval before putting something into the Kickstarter, so they don't have a totally blank slate!
I recall the crusher being quite big from the Colonial Marines trailer. An interesting route and one that makes me think the Marines might be hopelessly outgunned unless they get something big.
Basically yes it's just a big mobile battering ram they can take out an APC.
Prodos are being very chatty tonight
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 5 minutes ago
well, canon approach would not work for the board game as its creating some limits to game construction.. in terms of points values, it depends on initial level of your models, for instance, if you plan to start with experienced Squad of Marines (lvl 3) it will cost you 50 pts each model, a Marine without experience, it's approx 10 pts per model ( depending on type: M56, M41, Medic with M260, or Squad Commander)...
So some more sculpts are done but they need final approval (presumably from Fox)
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
The Female Predator is in the physical model form, We have ready renders for Praetorians (I keep calling them Royal Guard ;]) , all this is awaiting approval, once we have it we will publish the pictures images, I must say that Rolay.... Praetorian looks so COOL!
Apparently the render of the Praetorian is ready, just awaiting approval to show!
Prodos wrote:@Steve: The Female Predator is in the physical model form, We have ready renders for Praetorians (I keep calling them Royal Guard ;]) , all this is awaiting approval, once we have it we will publish the pictures images, I must say that Rolay.... Praetorian looks so COOL!
the plans are to increase to approx 12 different types of models per faction + vehicles!
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
@RiTides- warriors where ready, i mean renders, awaiting approval as well, same for Predator's mission tokens, we should have green light soon! (next week)
absolutely, but the first is a promise with no real date attached, the second lets the sculptor 'see' the money arriving and gives them a solid timescale when it will get to them
DaveC wrote: Where's RiTides gone they answered his question
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
the plans are to increase to approx 12 different types of models per faction + vehicles!
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
@RiTides- warriors where ready, i mean renders, awaiting approval as well, same for Predator's mission tokens, we should have green light soon! (next week)
Whoa, 12 models/faction? Preds have, what, 6 at most right now (3 box ones, fem, zerker, dogs... so actually 7?).
If they are going by types, the other factions don't seem that expansive either...
Again, that's so weak. A sculptor presented with a real business plan and a real license of this magnitude would realize that sculpts could only drive the KS. There's no incentive to say, come back to me when thousands of people have promised you money that you still don't have at that point.
I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just not a great explanation and if it is true it speaks to rather ... amateurish negotiation on someone's part.
So apparently part of the licence agreement is that everything has to be to the correct scale and the Queen will be about the size of a Warzone Behemoth. The Behemoth cost £30 in the Warzone KS so maybe £35 here? pure speculation though.
That scale pic is awesome. Really, really, really want to see the Queen now. I kind of hope they don't make us wait over a year until retail, they should just trickle standard boxes and other stuff. Maybe cast it per order or something until they get the boardgame out.
Also, a few Warzone factions got tanks. Can anyone vouch for their quality or size? I noticed they seemed quite pricey, but had nothing to compare it to. Was thinking if a tank is possible the APC is too, at least at some point.
Yeah, that would definitely be nice. Roughly 45-50 American for an Alien Queen might get people to buy it just for the model itself, especially if it's multipart and poseable. And something to add on to the "having things ready"...
@Philip, can't promise, however, according to my own schedule, the starter box (KS version only), should be ready beginning of Feb, we will keep you updated, this is not Warzone with 250 different, unique, models and our turn around time is about 3 days per model ;] (design, print, master mould to mass production). ;]
I'm not as knowledgeable on the nuts and bolts of the sculpting side of the industry, but that rate of turnaround on a model seems incredibly quick. Am I wrong on this?
Medium of Death wrote: Was thinking if a tank is possible the APC is too, at least at some point.
Prodos confirmed vehicles and that basically means APC doesn't it? I can't think of many other vehicles that would be as high on the want list as the APC for this IP.
DaveC wrote: So apparently part of the licence agreement is that everything has to be to the correct scale and the Queen will be about the size of a Warzone Behemoth. The Behemoth cost £30 in the Warzone KS so maybe £35 here? pure speculation though.
Queen is a bit more complex and fiddly than the Behemoth...
I just said people would be ecstatic; I didn't say it would be 30 GBP. (I mean, I also said people would be ecstatic if the Queen turned out to be a free add-on/upgrade.)
DaveC wrote: Where's RiTides gone they answered his question
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
the plans are to increase to approx 12 different types of models per faction + vehicles!
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
@RiTides- warriors where ready, i mean renders, awaiting approval as well, same for Predator's mission tokens, we should have green light soon! (next week)
Just skimming the comments, great to see Prodos really opening up...
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 3 hours ago
hehe I must say that the idea for making this game was in my brain waiting to come out for 15 years! Hope you going to like it, as we are mainly Engineers and "long time" wargamers not a marketing guys and we love to play our games, so it must be cool rather, just another product to sell! I know this KS maybe is not the best in terms of "promotion" but I've personally loaded piece of my hart in to this project Jarek
Plenty of questions answered, plus they have an 'open game' session planned next weekend - gotta see if I can get over to Leamington Spa !
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 3 hours ago
@ thats Steve, btw, we are going to make some "open games" here at Leamington Spa, possibly, next weekend, let me know if your are available to have a test game! You are more than welcome! It's chance to have the model in hands (possibly some free aways!) and have a pint of... orange juice ;] In fact, anyone who's willing to travel to Leamington is more than welcome! Drop us a PM for more info! Jarek @Jakub,slim, Jonathan, Steve, thanks, and pozdrawiam as well! ;]
Clear resin Preds
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 3 hours ago
@david, yes, we will have clear resin models! I can ,100% ,confirm this. ;]
Jarek
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 1 hour ago
and last one to all: no, the clear resin ones wont be that expensive, it should be the same price. Maybe even some free ones... I don't know yet ;]
Let's hope that all the extra comms bring out more backers... Want to get through the £85k stretch and see what's next...
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 1 hour ago
OK, time to bed, its almost 12 here, and I need to recharge batteries. It's going to be a long day tomorrow in the workshop (and probably night, if Marks baby pop out tomorrow;] ) Take care all, I should be back online approx 8 am (UK). Jarek
Clear resin freebies would instantly more than explain the somewhat controversial (though I don't even really mind all that much currently) 30 quid/3 models price tag on preds.
oh and @RiTides, get your priorities straight, man! this is unacceptable
As much as I was going to stop on funding the project, I went on ahead and upped my pledge and added a few extra squads to the love.
!@#$ me those are some great looking sculpts. If they come out even half of that quality- I've got more then just some Malfaux for sale in the upcoming year.
BTW- Is there going to be some talk of a demo team program from Prodos in the upcoming year?
Someone mentioned and linked to it in the KS comments a few days ago.
EDIT update Heresy are with drawing it of their own accord they haven't been asked to but they don't feel right selling it when another company has paid for the licence to do so.
This is Rumour Control... Here are the facts.
So we have CRUSHED the last few stretch goals and as such, we feel that you guys deserve an exciting new add-on to choose!
So we present to you, the Alien Crusher! A large Xenomorph that is said to be almost bulletproof, and charges into its foes causing massive blunt force trauma. With it's heavily armoured crest,The Crusher is also able to severely damage armoured vehicles...
The Crusher is a substantial miniature in every sense. Bigger than even the Royal Guard, the Crusher comes on a 50mm base. As soon as they are unlocked, Crushers will be available at £30 per model as an Add-on.
Someone mentioned and linked to it in the KS comments a few days ago.
Actually Heresy is withdrawing this figure on their own, this is what the Heresy owner has just said (facebook)
Andy Foster Prodos are paying good money for their license. Feels wrong to step on their toes. Also their predator figures are ace, so now is the right time to stop making the Hurn II. I always intended the next one would look a bit different, and so it shall.
Andy Foster Also, I have not been asked to stop making it by anyone. I just am.
So a big thumbs up for heresy for doing the right thing now there is an official licence (and no need for anybody to worry that Prodos is acting the bully)
Yeah, good on Heresy - true gent is Andy Foster. I have the original Hurn 'not Predator' Headtacker, and while it's an excellent figure it doesn't hold a candle to the Prodos versions.
This is Rumour Control... Here are the facts.
So we have CRUSHED the last few stretch goals and as such, we feel that you guys deserve an exciting new add-on to choose!
So we present to you, the Alien Crusher! A large Xenomorph that is said to be almost bulletproof, and charges into its foes causing massive blunt force trauma. With it's heavily armoured crest,The Crusher is also able to severely damage armoured vehicles...
The Crusher is a substantial miniature in every sense. Bigger than even the Royal Guard, the Crusher comes on a 50mm base. As soon as they are unlocked, Crushers will be available at £30 per model as an Add-on.
Spoiler:
Comment from Prodos on the Crusher - bold part is the interesting / exciting bit...
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 13 minutes ago
@ Antenocitis Workshop Ltd: Crushers are 90mm from the bottom of its back (not including tail) to the tip of its head and would be 120mm if it included the tail.
It is 10 Parts.
Oh and it is posable!
More interesting comments from Prodos - slowly but surely the info on the game is leaking through
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 2 minutes ago
@ Aeria_Gloris: The Boardgame doesn't use conventional squares. It uses measuring like a wargame, in inches.
We are currently making a gameplay video which (if there are no issues) will be uploaded over the next two days.
Really hope this weekend sees an upturn in backers and the pledge level - would be great to get through the £85k level on to the Crusher...
Crusher sounds absolutely awesome! No idea how to allocate my pledge now, as I bet another big bug is coming in the stretch before the Queen, too.
Out of curiosity, what was the most expensive figure in the War zone campaign? I'm glad this one is "only" 30 pounds, and gives me hope the Queen will be reasonable.
Ruglud wrote: More interesting comments from Prodos - slowly but surely the info on the game is leaking through
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 2 minutes ago
@ Aeria_Gloris: The Boardgame doesn't use conventional squares. It uses measuring like a wargame, in inches.
We are currently making a gameplay video which (if there are no issues) will be uploaded over the next two days.
Really hope this weekend sees an upturn in backers and the pledge level - would be great to get through the £85k level on to the Crusher...
I think not making the box game a "board game" is a very bad move, they may lose some pledges and future customers over that. I was going to get the retail boxed game because I thought it was a Space Hulk style board game, now I'm probably going to wait for some retail boxed figures to just use with my Space Hulk sets.
The more I learn about this game the more disappointed I get. :(
Forcing players to measure instead of using squares/hexes is going to hurt the retail version more than this version. A lot of folks are in the KS for the figures and their use in the 'wargame'. The retail version should be something typical board gamers will love. I suspect now it turns into a source of cheaper minis for the 'build an army' gamers out there.
Very interesting decision on Prodos part. I suspect it has to do with reusing Warzone mechanisms, even for the board game.
It does make me rethink how much (or if) I back this project. I was actually looking forward to a Space Hulk type game with cool Aliens figures, that I could enjoy with my daughter. Making it a 'you must measure' game likely slows it down and complicates it just enough that she won't enjoy it.
CptJake wrote: Forcing players to measure instead of using squares/hexes is going to hurt the retail version more than this version. A lot of folks are in the KS for the figures and their use in the 'wargame'. The retail version should be something typical board gamers will love. I suspect now it turns into a source of cheaper minis for the 'build an army' gamers out there.
Very interesting decision on Prodos part. I suspect it has to do with reusing Warzone mechanisms, even for the board game.
It does make me rethink how much (or if) I back this project. I was actually looking forward to a Space Hulk type game with cool Aliens figures, that I could enjoy with my daughter. Making it a 'you must measure' game likely slows it down and complicates it just enough that she won't enjoy it.
Right, there's a few comments from backers who really aren't happy with this game play mechanics and are threatening to drop out... I haven't seen the Warzone rules, but it almost sounds more like a Necromunda / roleplay type of game - a very niche market. Also note that there's no mention of a measuring stick in the box contents...
What is still disappointing me is that there's no hardcopy of the rules in the box, I know we get a digital copy (Anytime reward), but I don't want to always need my laptop powered on to flick through the PDF. There is talk of a hardback rule book stretch goal, but I'd like to see a soft back free add-on option at the least
Watching this vaguely... Seems like the main box is ok if you want to play the game and want a lot of aliens? Seems light on the other two factions (though predators probably can manage on their own, eh). So... still not interested, but I guess its good to see more going into the main box for those who are
CptJake wrote: Forcing players to measure instead of using squares/hexes is going to hurt the retail version more than this version. A lot of folks are in the KS for the figures and their use in the 'wargame'. The retail version should be something typical board gamers will love. I suspect now it turns into a source of cheaper minis for the 'build an army' gamers out there.
Very interesting decision on Prodos part. I suspect it has to do with reusing Warzone mechanisms, even for the board game.
It does make me rethink how much (or if) I back this project. I was actually looking forward to a Space Hulk type game with cool Aliens figures, that I could enjoy with my daughter. Making it a 'you must measure' game likely slows it down and complicates it just enough that she won't enjoy it.
Right, there's a few comments from backers who really aren't happy with this game play mechanics and are threatening to drop out... I haven't seen the Warzone rules, but it almost sounds more like a Necromunda / roleplay type of game - a very niche market. Also note that there's no mention of a measuring stick in the box contents...
What is still disappointing me is that there's no hardcopy of the rules in the box, I know we get a digital copy (Anytime reward), but I don't want to always need my laptop powered on to flick through the PDF. There is talk of a hardback rule book stretch goal, but I'd like to see a soft back free add-on option at the least
Not to be argumentative, but given what has been said here (fair notice, I haven't checked the comments section), how is this actually a board game at all?
The sides are assembled with a point system (different experience levels, different potency) and played (we now hear) with measuring rather then a board.
It seems like this is really a skirmish game level table top game, marketed as a board game in order to attract more money (as board games are indisputably a bigger market then mini campaigns).
For someone that was interested in this as a board game (which to be fair I am not), this is almost bait-and-switch level of misleading.
Fake edit: wait, the game doesn't come with any rules in it at all? Whaaaa?
Fake edit: wait, the game doesn't come with any rules in it at all? Whaaaa?
Previously we had people bitching that the game didn't come with dice, despite the picture of box content showing dice.. and just not listing them.
Now its the rulebook.
the game must not come with those little barricades either, since those aren't listed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Additionally, I suspect the reason for a lack of 1" grid on the tiles is that the game is using Round Lip bases which are 30/40/50mm.. and thus won't fit in a 25mm square.
Imposter101 wrote: I think people should not get their hopes up for the Queen, too much.
Fair enough, although if we advanced no further than Crusher (should be in by Monday), and the already unlocked Praetorians, PredAliens, and Warriors, I'd be happy to allocate it all on them
While this is one of the few times I would prefer a gridded map, I think this still falls under the boardgame cateory.
Necromunda and quite a few other GW games did this. Especially their starters which are kinda like boardgame in a sense if you show restraint and leave it at what comes in the box.
It is odd though. Very odd choice to go gridless. I can't deny that it makes me second guess buying the game rather than just buying some models to throw onto my space hulk set up.
But it could work. I am willing to give it a chance and find out.
String or a nice corded strand makes a good measuring device for such things. There are creative ways to make this work in a more convenient way.
I think after 200k, I'm done fretting over the KS until completed.
I will adjust my pledge on the last day taking into consideration how high the pledges have reached and how well Prodos are responding to the KS in the form of legitimate pertinent info.
I am in for at least enough Colonial Marines to replace my cadian mods. I am happy enough with my wizkids Horrorclix models to suffice but would still like to update those.
If Prodos pull out the stops though, I could be in for $1k. Current pledge is $500. A nice median that can be heavily adjusted either way.
I'd imagine the reason they are not talking about the physical rule book (which is clearly shown on the images) is that at present it's soft cover (or even staple bound)
Update in the comments: The video will be up within a day, and you can use the board game rules with grid-based-play, or wargame rules with measuring. Everybody wins
So, not much else to do but sit tight and hope that video rocks the house!
Prodos wrote:;] the vid will be up today or tomorrow morning, we are working on it as we speak ;] ... basically some content had to be removed it.
also some more pictures tomorrow
and final one. yes 2 set of rules, basic and advanced, basic just for game board, advanced can be used either for board game or wargame, that is the master plan, you play as you want, grids ? no problemo, you may play basic board game (as will be shown on 1st video) , want to include more models , create own heroes, no problemo play ruler-wargame version (ruler system is needed for the "game flow"), I think, this fusion is the best you can have it as the "limit" does not exist ;] in fact we have the same approach for Warzone, where you can play basic game (no cards) or advanced with cards.
Jarek
Additionally, I suspect the reason for a lack of 1" grid on the tiles is that the game is using Round Lip bases which are 30/40/50mm.. and thus won't fit in a 25mm square.
I don't remember ever decrying the lack of a 1 inch grid. Instead, the lack of ANY grid. I could care less about the size, the size should have been chosen based on the figure bases. Handling multi-space occupying figures is something well written rules could handle (other rules manage to do so).
My only point about lack of grid is that, especially for the retail version, it is going to alienate a good chunk of the potential market. For the KS version it definitely will affect how much I pledge.
I saw the quote above where they say folks can play with a grid if they want. Unless the tiles come with the grid on them, and the rules are written for the use of that grid, again, they alienate a huge chunk of the potential market. It just seems a poor decision. Using a grid with either squares or hexes makes a lot of sense for a boardgame.
As for rules, I was always pretty sure the 'boardgame' came with rules for that game, and part of the KS was to get a hardback of the 'wargame' rules into print as well (vice the included PDF).
Does anyone know the scope of Prodos's AVP license? Does it only encompass a "war game" or "miniatures game"? Maybe that is why they are not doing an actual board game variant and are just using the tiles as interior terrain. I know upper deck is doing a deck building card game for the Aliens license and plans on doing one for the Predator license, so other companies are making games for the licenses. Would it be possible for someone else to create an Aliens and/or Predator self contained board game?
RiTides wrote: Update in the comments: The video will be up within a day, and you can use the board game rules with grid-based-play, or wargame rules with measuring. Everybody wins
So, not much else to do but sit tight and hope that video rocks the house!
Prodos wrote:;] the vid will be up today or tomorrow morning, we are working on it as we speak ;] ... basically some content had to be removed it.
also some more pictures tomorrow
and final one. yes 2 set of rules, basic and advanced, basic just for game board, advanced can be used either for board game or wargame, that is the master plan, you play as you want, grids ? no problemo, you may play basic board game (as will be shown on 1st video) , want to include more models , create own heroes, no problemo play ruler-wargame version (ruler system is needed for the "game flow"), I think, this fusion is the best you can have it as the "limit" does not exist ;] in fact we have the same approach for Warzone, where you can play basic game (no cards) or advanced with cards.
Jarek
Dude, did you guys even read my above post? There will be a grid, measuring is just for wargames rules. Video coming tonight or tomorrow on board game gameplay.
Fake edit: wait, the game doesn't come with any rules in it at all? Whaaaa?
Previously we had people bitching that the game didn't come with dice, despite the picture of box content showing dice.. and just not listing them.
Now its the rulebook.
Spoiler:
the game must not come with those little barricades either, since those aren't listed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Additionally, I suspect the reason for a lack of 1" grid on the tiles is that the game is using Round Lip bases which are 30/40/50mm.. and thus won't fit in a 25mm square.
You know what, I've seen that new box contents several dozen times over the last few days, but not once did I notice the image of a rulebook... I'm much moce contented now I know that exists
RiTides wrote:Update in the comments: The video will be up within a day, and you can use the board game rules with grid-based-play, or wargame rules with measuring. Everybody wins
So, not much else to do but sit tight and hope that video rocks the house!
Prodos wrote:;] the vid will be up today or tomorrow morning, we are working on it as we speak ;] ... basically some content had to be removed it.
also some more pictures tomorrow
and final one. yes 2 set of rules, basic and advanced, basic just for game board, advanced can be used either for board game or wargame, that is the master plan, you play as you want, grids ? no problemo, you may play basic board game (as will be shown on 1st video) , want to include more models , create own heroes, no problemo play ruler-wargame version (ruler system is needed for the "game flow"), I think, this fusion is the best you can have it as the "limit" does not exist ;] in fact we have the same approach for Warzone, where you can play basic game (no cards) or advanced with cards.
Jarek
Their updates today have (in my view) been excellent... Keep it up Prodos
RiTides wrote: Update in the comments: The video will be up within a day, and you can use the board game rules with grid-based-play, or wargame rules with measuring. Everybody wins
So, not much else to do but sit tight and hope that video rocks the house!
Prodos wrote:;] the vid will be up today or tomorrow morning, we are working on it as we speak ;] ... basically some content had to be removed it.
also some more pictures tomorrow
and final one. yes 2 set of rules, basic and advanced, basic just for game board, advanced can be used either for board game or wargame, that is the master plan, you play as you want, grids ? no problemo, you may play basic board game (as will be shown on 1st video) , want to include more models , create own heroes, no problemo play ruler-wargame version (ruler system is needed for the "game flow"), I think, this fusion is the best you can have it as the "limit" does not exist ;] in fact we have the same approach for Warzone, where you can play basic game (no cards) or advanced with cards.
Jarek
Dude, did you guys even read my above post? There will be a grid, measuring is just for wargames rules. Video coming tonight or tomorrow on board game gameplay.
Yes I read your post. There is no real confirmation there is a grid nor that the rules actually make use of a grid. There is a vague 'play it the way you want'. The resin terrain shown does not have a grid. The pictures of the tile are not clear enough to tell. Hopefully the video will make it clear. A simple, "Yes, the tiles have a grid of Xmm/Xinches and the boardgame rules use that for movement and firing" would be nice.
RiTides wrote: Their comment indicates the basic board game, and rules, will use a grid... we'll see the video in mere hours anyway
No, the comment says it goes either way the player wants. It is very unclear. I hope the video does show a grid and that the rules use it.
Agree to disagree, we're reading the same comment but getting different meanings, it seems. No worries, the incoming video will clear it up regardless and I do agree they could've been clearer. Hopefully the video is that, and in spades- I think a lot of folks are waiting for it to see about the gameplay.
warboss wrote: Agreed. Confusing pledge levels/rewards and an improving but still relative lack of value IMO are holding it back.
Yep, I'm still not in on this one despite being keen pre-ks. Not enough value to warrant jumping in now over (possibly) picking it up at retail. Ahh well still some time left, will keep watching.
They're listed as urethane plastic on the main page.
According to wikipedia...
Urethane can refer to - Carbamates, compounds with the functional group RO(CO)NHR' - Ethyl carbamate, the colloquial name of which is urethane - Polyurethane in colloquial usage
Alpharius wrote: This IP does feel like it 'should' be moving faster, whatever that means, I guess?
Maybe it's time for... d...d...d...d...d...d...d...d...damage control!!!
They tried that aggain. It didn't work so hot this time.
The consumers saw this as a mini wargame instead of a boardgame by the exclusion of a grid system. they are in part correct, but I'll gt back to that in a minute...
Backtracking later, they said that a grid was going to be included. Too late. The association to miniature wargames and the reviled GW (remember kids, when some people think of miniature wargames, they think of GW). Many backers were bleeding away. If they weren't bled away, the day would have been better and likely would have beat 185k by now.
So anyways, why "grided = board game" mentality.
Grided boards have a much tighter set of granularity patterns. You can calculate that in order to get from one predetermined spot to the next, it will be precisely x spaces. Not so in more freeform games without a grid which are not only less convenient, but seem "not as good" as games on a grid.
Games on a grid hide the fact that it is a simulation better than if they lack a grid. Simulation games (ameritrash) are typically not really warmly regarded by eurogamers who are more used to tightly controlled parameters.
Enter Space Hulk.
Space Hulk blurred the lines of simulation because, other than the dice rolling, the randomness associated with simulations wasn't present. It is more strategic than it is tactical. A very important distinction.
And while every boardgamer knows that you can use models in space hulk in 40k, they also know that space hulknis its own, very well designed, self contained game.
So the expectations and hopes of many boardgamers have halted, or at least more slowly progressed. That's not to say this won't be a great game on its own merits in a smaller scale, but from the consumer perspective the distinction between board game and wargame for AVP is merely that the board game uses basic rules on a quickly retconned board, now replete with a grid.
This is not a good sign for boardgamers who had expectations about what this game could be.
Can you blame their hopes? Its not like there is a whole lot of info for the mechanical design of this game running around.
And now that the barest half hints are running around, they are not as happy as table top wargamers seem to be.
And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.
Hellfury wrote: And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.
Kickstarter is making less money in the middle of the campaign: Game over, man! Game over!
Bug bait has a point though, a lot of Kickstarters usually slump a bit in the middle portion of their runs. No need to go all Hudson on us yet, remember, you're not going to die until the final act.
Hellfury wrote: And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.
Kickstarter is making less money in the middle of the campaign: Game over, man! Game over!
A straw man argument, just fantastic.
But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff", which ranges from 1-5 models at the most.
So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;
> Alien models look like garbage > GW scale prices > £20,000 for £15 of pledges > Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop > No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual representations of the models quality. > Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter > Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their > Delayed updates
BrookM wrote: Bug bait has a point though, a lot of Kickstarters usually slump a bit in the middle portion of their runs. No need to go all Hudson on us yet, remember, you're not going to die until the final act.
Whatever point was made was lost somewhere deep inside the scarecrow filled with straw.
I made a fairly logical explanation from the boardgamer veiwpoint. I do not share that opinion, because I am a gamer who crosses over between the two genres frequently.
But the explanation I offered was met with a belittling comment, so a belittling comment was the response that was given. If someone wants to debate the salient points with a cogent argument as opposed to making belittling remarks, then I'll respond respectfully as well.
But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff (which ranges from 1-5 models at the most)".
So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;
> Alien models look like garbage
> GW scale prices
> £20,000 for £15 of pledges
> Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop
> No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual models
> Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter
> Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their
> Delayed updates
I like the aliens (even with the 'footgate' scandal, as so do Fox otherwise we would not have been shown them)
Sadly these are resin figures, so are NOT going to be ultra cheap, even via KS
See above
They can't show stuff until it's been approved by the licence owner, as soon as they feel sure they will achive something they get to work on it and the approval process so we should (with luck) see more before the end of the campaign
I'll give you the board, I'd like to see it, but we have been promised a gameplay video so should see it there. As to how well they progress from render to figure take a look at the figures they shown, here and in warzone, it's not perfect but pretty good
Kickstarters rarely (if ever) perform as well during the middle, especially if they've had plenty of pre-publicity like this one. The only real time to worry is multiple days of negative growth (like Mars Attacks before Mantic fixed it), this is showing solid growth
The Queen is an iconic figure and as such I'll wager that it may well have to be included in the game (this is a licence product after all) so I suspect the production costs for it are build into the funding. It will show up to boost the final days rush (no idea if it will be free or paid, but it will be available)
As to updates it's a small company, one of them is expecting a new baby about now and they're working with a licence owner that has to OK stuff (like renders) that are critical to some of the updates so while faster updates would be nice give them a break (It also lessens the chance of pledge trolling to peek at updates in advance)
But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff (which ranges from 1-5 models at the most)".
So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;
> Alien models look like garbage
> GW scale prices
> £20,000 for £15 of pledges
> Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop
> No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual models
> Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter
> Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their
> Delayed updates
I like the aliens (even with the 'footgate' scandal, as so do Fox otherwise we would not have been shown them)
Sadly these are resin figures, so are NOT going to be ultra cheap, even via KS
See above
They can't show stuff until it's been approved by the licence owner, as soon as they feel sure they will achive something they get to work on it and the approval process so we should (with luck) see more before the end of the campaign
I'll give you the board, I'd like to see it, but we have been promised a gameplay video so should see it there. As to how well they progress from render to figure take a look at the figures they shown, here and in warzone, it's not perfect but pretty good
Kickstarters rarely (if ever) perform as well during the middle, especially if they've had plenty of pre-publicity like this one. The only real time to worry is multiple days of negative growth (like Mars Attacks before Mantic fixed it), this is showing solid growth
The Queen is an iconic figure and as such I'll wager that it may well have to be included in the game (this is a licence product after all) so I suspect the production costs for it are build into the funding. It will show up to boost the final days rush (no idea if it will be free or paid, but it will be available)
As to updates it's a small company, one of them is expecting a new baby about now and they're working with a licence owner that has to OK stuff (like renders) that are critical to some of the updates so while faster updates would be nice give them a break (It also lessens the chance of pledge trolling to peek at updates in advance)
Resin isn't an incredibly expensive material, and £15 for only five figures? That's ridiculous. I'm doubtful from those poses and sculpts they will be made up from many parts ether.
They really should have had some mock-up renders in place, or at least used some of the images from the bloody films.
It's been a slow down for a while, now it's just become way more obvious. The fact they are asking so much is obviously gonna slow down the bloody process, especially when they are asking 20,000 for more add-ons.
But so little has been shown it's ridiculous, also, let's remember Mantic aren't the biggest of companies (21 employes if I'm correct?) but we're still able to produce a good amount of updates.
So yeah, overall Prodos have really yet to deliver on anything of real quality in the Aliens department, which was really the only thing I found interest in. I think this might end up being it's own chapter in the book currently being written named "Aliens: What could have been" .
They have sculpts for the Warriors and Praetorian, just are awaiting approval to show them. This is a good thing- the first glimpse of the PredAlien was horrid, the latest sculpt is absolutely ace!
Also he took a quick screenshot in the comments to show that he's still editing the video, they were removing some unapproved parts apparently, before they post it later today:
And this comment makes me VERY happy:
Prodos wrote:@Prodos
Could you come up with ideas or pledges for those of us looking at the wargame aspect?
@william, hmm there is one "looking good there,boss!", we will add 2 more after the Wargame book is "unlocked".
Since I'm here for the wargaming part, a pledge with just the hardback book and add-ons, no board game, would be most welcome! At 125 pounds or a hair higher so that it benefits from that stretch goal would be best
I can't believe any of you lot are seriously saying that Kickstarters don't generally slump in the middle...Go look at the Kicktraqs for any number of successful Kickstarters. There's always a mid-way slump, and often but not always, a flurry of last-minute pledges in the final days of the campaign.
Eleven more days? This kickstarter won't last eleven more hours, man!
All joking aside, I do hope it collects a few more backers soon. It'd be nice to get past that, er, not so great stretch goal and on to the Crusher (which has a much, much better explanation than its creators ever gave, but that's besides the point... )
Prodos is significantly smaller than Mantic (there were 3 of them at the start of the Warzone KS)
Resin itself is not too expensive,
the moulds however are (compared to metal) as they wear out really fast, that is one of the big costs, the other is staff as it's far slower to cast in than metal
I'm not saying the mid project maliase isnt present.
Lets look at that post that keeps getting taken of context.
Hellfury wrote: And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.
Small company or not, personal issues like a baby being born or not, the lack of Prodos participation is enhancing the effect of the 'mid project malaise'. Reasons for their lack of participation/info sharing may well be valid, but that does not take away the effect of that lack.
RiTides wrote: They have sculpts for the Warriors and Praetorian, just are awaiting approval to show them. This is a good thing- the first glimpse of the PredAlien was horrid, the latest sculpt is absolutely ace!
Also he took a quick screenshot in the comments to show that he's still editing the video, they were removing some unapproved parts apparently, before they post it later today:
And this comment makes me VERY happy:
Prodos wrote:@Prodos
Could you come up with ideas or pledges for those of us looking at the wargame aspect?
@william, hmm there is one "looking good there,boss!", we will add 2 more after the Wargame book is "unlocked".
Since I'm here for the wargaming part, a pledge with just the hardback book and add-ons, no board game, would be most welcome! At 125 pounds or a hair higher so that it benefits from that stretch goal would be best
Has anyone asked Prodos about doing a miniatures + rulebook pledge level? I would but haven't pledged yet.
Looks like my concerns about folks hoping for a gridded board game not getting it may be valid.
Again, that won't hurt this KS too much, but likely will affect the retail version.
The presence of an 'anti-vehicle' stat bodes well for folks wanting the APC, but it also is an indicator the 'wargame' is the driver, not the board game. That wouldn't be an issue except again, the retail version looks to be marketed as a board game. I get the impression the board game is kind of an after thought even though the game is packaged as one. I suspect there was a big desire to reuse Warzone rules/mechanisms instead of develop a set of board game rules.
I'm so glad I waited for this. If you see the pledge total go down by around £300, its because I only need to keep enough in to get colonial marine models.
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 2 minutes ago
Movement is" for Wargame (open terrain play) and grids for board game.
so model with a Movement 5 will travel 5" in wargame OR 5 grids in board game
That wasn't the best video, it felt, well kind of awkward. The rules don't feel really interesting. This just keeps feeling very "meh" overall. I really do believe they should have had a game play video from the start, as well as more pictures of the models and not just renders. Overall a lack of readiness is what seems to be causing these problems, but it doesn't look like it's going to improve any time soon.
xowainx wrote: Creator Prodos Games Ltd 2 minutes ago Movement is" for Wargame (open terrain play) and grids for board game. so model with a Movement 5 will travel 5" in wargame OR 5 grids in board game
The resin terrain has no grids, the low res pictures I see of the tiles don't clearly show a grid, and they knew that was an issue and said the video would resolve it )and the video clearly does not solve it). When directly asked how big the squares or hexes were no real answer was ever given. Folks are going to watch the video, see the inches as measurement, not bother going through the thousands of comments to find a different answer.
Prodos is really screwing the pooch on how they are communicating. Put it in the FAQ. Put it in a clear concise update.
That video did nothing to help convince people and 1 minute 30 of 5 minutes was just reselling is stuff we already know. This project has gone from a must have to top of my list of KS to drop if funds run low and with Heroquest starting on Friday there's a very real chance of that happening. I get that their hands are being tied by Fox with what they can say or show but they should be doing more with what they have.
I also don't think the boardgame has a grid based movement and they are trying to side step the issue - that said the tiles in the video look like paper prototypes so that can be changed before release.
Edit: The KS has lost about £1,400 since the video hmmm they probably should have waited and put the full thing up.
Meep. Sucks to see this one kind of struggling, I had expected such an IP to do much better. I realize there's a week and a half left, but I thought this was supposed to be the killer project of doom to end other projects. I think they might have done better by glossing over on the stat cards and actually showing people play instead of outright explaining it (and briefly). The MA gameplay video wasn't exactly stunning, but at least you got an idea of how a really basic scenario would go. Maybe part 2 of the video will help things along?
GrimDork wrote: Meep. Sucks to see this one kind of struggling, I had expected such an IP to do much better. I realize there's a week and a half left, but I thought this was supposed to be the killer project of doom to end other projects. I think they might have done better by glossing over on the stat cards and actually showing people play instead of outright explaining it (and briefly). The MA gameplay video wasn't exactly stunning, but at least you got an idea of how a really basic scenario would go. Maybe part 2 of the video will help things along?
This is what happens when the power of a franchise blinds people to reason, and unlike Mars Attacks, I just can't see this bouncing back. Mars Attacks had numerous updates, really good deals, and had some awesome models. It was obvious that Mantic was pretty ready for what they were about to launch, and tried to keep up contact with the fanbase. I know it had some trouble (and by some big trouble) near the end, but it bounced back really well.
Oh and we've dropped from £185,00 to £183,944 at an alarming rate.
I'm thinking of waiting for the retail version, and maybe augmenting it with a few of the resin figures available at that point. I'm in no hurry so waiting doesn't hurt me. My painting time and skill level are such that the plastics will work well for me (and be more durable with my daughter playing and for possible convention use).
I want to like this, but I also want it for the game, not just the resin figures. I fully get that for the resin figure crowd in love with the IP this is a decent deal.
Prodos are answering questions on the comments board - said they are going to repost the vid so that it's high res.
Backers has levelled at 1200 but the pledge level has dropped back to ~£183k, so looks like a lot of folk have reduced their pledge levels... Need some good PR and updates from Prodos to get those wavering back in the game...
CptJake wrote: I'm thinking of waiting for the retail version
Gotta say, this has also been on my mind since watching the vid.
If you're more interested in the basic board game, and not the resin miniatures, this is probably the best path to take.
But as Jake says, for those who want resin minis this campaign makes sense. People have long been wishing for sweet models from this franchise, and on that part Prodos seems to be able to deliver (given their Warzone results thus far, although those are still coming in). The board game is more of an unknown, so I can understand folks who were interested in it only for that aspect, and not the models, wanting to wait.
I also wonder if they could have done better just marketing it as a wargame using the Warzone rules and sweet resin models. They're trying to strike a balance for both crowds, and that's a hard balance to make. But I'm in the wargaming crowd, and will be upping to a wargaming pledge with hardback rulebook most likely if they add one, so the board game issues don't really affect me personally (although I understand they affect a lot of others, particularly with how this was initially marketed).
I compiled a spreadsheet of the different pledges and made a price comparison based on figures only (inc shipping).
You can view it here : AVP pledge comparison It's nothing fancy, you are welcome to copy it and play with the numbers.
The best value so far is "If it bleeds we can kill it" at £210 (+£10 p&p) with a value of £392 that comes to a 44% discount
Next best is the base pledge really at £75 (+£10) with a value of £145 which comes to 41% discount.
The lowest discount is on the "Looking good there boss" at 31% discount, followed by "Get to the Chopper" at 33% discount.
As it stands - "Real Aliens" (£155) comes out cheaper (38%) than getting a base pledge (£75) + addon pledge (£100) inspite of the
freebies(35-36% depending on wether you are using 1 or 2 accounts). I guess this is more for those that want KS exclusive Berserkers.
It's still early days of course, and I reserve my rights to make a mistake... This includes the 2000 backers stretch and the 185k stretch.
Feel free to comment or suggest fancification. Most likely I'll just update this as stretchgoals are added.
Obviously the discount doesn't do much if you are not really into what's in the base box. I just thought it might be handy.
but as to whether the gameplay will work well for a boardgame ?
(it certainly seems complicated, and from the way people expoited/got confused by/argued about the slightest issue in Sedition Wars this does not fill me with confidence)
but plenty of time for video 2 to convince me otherwise
For those not wanting to trawl through the comments... Spoilered as there's quite a lot....
Spoiler:
Alex Colbert 11 minutes ago
Prodos - Sidestepping the elephant in the room for a minute, are we still on track for army construction guidelines and/or points values tomorrow night?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 10 minutes ago
Alex yes thats the intent. As we said the vid needed a redo last minute and we wanted to meet our timing promises. We will take the feedback on the second part and get more on gameplay
Michael 11 minutes ago
@Prodos: How is movement handled in the boardgame? How is force construction organized? What types of troops are there to choose from? How much accounting is needed ( lots of tracking and marking on the cards)? Some of these have been answered by the video.
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 7 minutes ago
Michael: It uses a grid as was shown in the vid and will be futher focussed on in part 2
2. In the board game: Normal rules, sides are defined. Advanced rules models are pointed and a players choose to that point level while recognising the organisation chart.
3. Not much, wounds and a few other bits.
Jake Rose 9 minutes ago
"Will happily answer questions...."
How big are the square which make up the grid on the tiles?
How do the rules handle figures with bases bigger than those squares?
How is LOS handled in the board game? How does the grid affect that?
How is diagonal movement accounted for?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 5 minutes ago
Jake: How big are the square which make up the grid on the tiles? 1 inch
How do the rules handle figures with bases bigger than those squares? take 4 squares
How is LOS handled in the board game? How does the grid affect that? True
How is diagonal movement accounted for? Can move diagonally
Antenocitis Workshop Ltd 6 minutes ago
@Prodos: are the clear-cast Predator figures going to be unique poses, or will they be existing figures just clear-cast?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 5 minutes ago
Antenocitis: Initially same poses
Chris Baginski 19 minutes ago
@Prodos
I think I understand now why the boardgame has 'limited poseability' - the stat card for the predator clearly shows a shoulder cannon and wrist blades... meaning that for the boardgame that particular Hunter Predator needs to be geared like that.
Will there be a provision to change-up the gear for different weapon/equipment choices? Perhaps blank stat cards?
Also, Resin Terrain - when will we be able to see photos of the actual terrain with models shown in it/along side it? Renders are nice, but I would like to see the real thing... personally, I would be happy seeing actual shots of unpainted terrain.
Answering me in a PM, you suggested that 2 sets of Resin Terrain would be enough for the boardgame aspect - would you gentlemen consider offering a bundle of 2 sets of terrain for £250? That would conveniently make a pledge level of 'Get to the Chopper' the defacto pledge for the full boardgame experience if someone chose said terrain bundle. Lastly, regarding the Resin Terrain - if the boardgame deals with grid movement, how is the grid demarcated on the Resin Terrain?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 17 minutes ago
Chris: Basic game will be 'plug and play'. For the advanced yes.
Anastasios Lianos 18 minutes ago
@Prodos: If Kickstarter is downgrading your video quality, could you please upload the video to Youtube?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 17 minutes ago
Anastasios: we are
Arkangel 17 minutes ago
@ Prodos
Still waiting to hear about next weekend?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 16 minutes ago
Arkangel: Jarek will email all tomorrow
J S Morgan (Alien) 14 minutes ago
@Prodos Are the game tiles all going to be the same like the video could you not give the different themes and colour schemes related to locations from the films?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 12 minutes ago
JS: We are prepping the pictures now. They are based on a space ship and show normal, infected (by Alien) and specific rooms (refrectory etc).
Michael 13 minutes ago
Thanks for the answers, Prodos. I appreciate the work you put into this.
For the protocol: I have not lowered my pledge. And probably will not. And i'm still looking forward to the full scale video. It's just dissapointing when you wait for almost nothing - and that in low res.
Now i'm off to bed. Hope to see a turnaround when i wake up again.
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 11 minutes ago
Michael: It wasnt low res, but made that way by KS. You live and learn.
the tiles equate to 270 square inches, they can be put together in any way, but 4x4 foot would work
Mike Masser 11 minutes ago
@Prodos: A few questions
1) Are the tiles for the game final version or work in progress.
2) When will we see digital/model photos of the newer figures e.g. Warrior.
3) Will we see the sprues of the minis, digital or resin before the end of the KS.
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 9 minutes ago
The £185k has already been unlocked, the 190k is the crusher.
Mike 1Actual tiles will arrive with us this week
2 When they are approved
3. yes
Jesper Kjaergaard-Jensen 10 minutes ago
Prodos, what is the material of the figures? Is it just another name for resin?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 8 minutes ago
Jesper. No its a different m,aterial to GW?FW resin, but it is most similar to resin, but very flexible, less prone to bubbles and holds detail much better
Kieran McGrann 8 minutes ago
@ Prodos
For the boardgame, you mentioned it can be set up any way, as with the main game is ther a way to randomise the board through game rules?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 7 minutes ago
Kieran: Basic game follows a mission set. For the advanced it can be put together how people wish. We will also have a randomniser method
Philip Holgate 7 minutes ago
@Prodos oh.... So we already have the £185k goal sorted?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 7 minutes ago
Philip yes
Pvt Ricco "Frosty" Frost 2 minutes ago
was the video only 5mins long or have i missed something
Kieran McGrann 1 minute ago
@Prodos
That sounds good. As a life long space hulk fan this seems very good especially with the solo play.
How does the solo play work?
Jesper Kjaergaard-Jensen 1 minute ago
Prodos, what are the sizes of the resin terrain pieces? They look awesome, but not sure of the actual size of hallways etc. only the rooms have a size (6"x6")
Creator Prodos Games Ltd less than a minute ago
Ricco: yes
Keiran: Single player: You play Marines vs Aliens. You defend the post, last man standing etc. Aliens are controlled by dice and cards.
Jesper: Its stated on the main page (under the add on picture for it)
Creator Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
Jesper the material accepts any acryllic paint AND doesnt need washing before hand.
Mike Masser 1 minute ago
@Prodos: Probably a dumb question, but can you tell us what exactly what needs to be approved for you to release models and game content?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd less than a minute ago
Mike every aspect!
As to my commitment to the KS, I'm staying in at 'Payback Time' and see how it all develops over the next 10 days
. Then you have the amount of credit that your pledge level lists to buy other things with. Just note, there was no freebie associated with the 165K stretch we just hit, they tend to be in between stretches.
. I can hope, right?
). So that will likely be what most stretches will affect, just not this one, which was unfortunately set 20K away.
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