Guys, tomorrow night we will do a Google hangout, more on information on next update, we will nail the rules to the bones for you. Will give the details and we will answer as many as we can.
Is it just me or did this lose around 2k £ in the last few hours? I could have sworn that the 185k stretch was broken last I checked and we are now almost at 183k.
How is LOS handled in the board game? How does the grid affect that? True
True?
I am guessing true los as in a long stick being able to touch the shooting model and the model being shot at without the need to rearrange the terrain? They could be a bit more generous with their answers...
I think you are correct about the 2 grand thing though, I was sure it was at 185 when I checked earlier...
Yup... I checked kicktraq and the daily total was only 600£ which I know they got overnight at least. I can't seem to find the video in question on my mobile device but it certainly seems to have had a negative impact on the average pledge but as you said not the total number of pkedges which has stayed the same (2000+/-2). The good news is that its up another 1k since I posted.
Hmm, those stat cards actually are enough to tip me from "maybe" to "probably not."
Just plain too many rules, and it didn't evoke a sense of "awesome, exactly how I always pictured them, worth some extra rules to pull it off."
Looks like a pretty complex skirmish set, and frankly I already have enough of those... For a small game, I've found it's a lot easier to get other people interested if there's not a wall of text.
GrimDork wrote: Meep. Sucks to see this one kind of struggling, I had expected such an IP to do much better. I realize there's a week and a half left, but I thought this was supposed to be the killer project of doom to end other projects.
No kidding.
Two months ago, I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now...
I can't believe how much Prodos is screwing up on this. They didn't just shoot themselves in the foot. No, they tied a noose around their neck, tossed the other end of the rope in an active chipper shredder, and then shot themselves in the foot. With buck shot.
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CptJake wrote: I fully get that for the resin figure crowd in love with the IP this is a decent deal.
I agree, the stat cards are way too texty. All you need is simple rules "skill name - model gets +1 to hit" is all you need. Put the long descriptions in the rulebook. Cards should be quick reference and cool art, maybe some damage tracking boxes like warmachine, that's about it.
GrimDork wrote: Meep. Sucks to see this one kind of struggling, I had expected such an IP to do much better. I realize there's a week and a half left, but I thought this was supposed to be the killer project of doom to end other projects.
No kidding.
Two months ago, I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now...
I can't believe how much Prodos is screwing up on this. They didn't just shoot themselves in the foot. No, they tied a noose around their neck, tossed the other end of the rope in an active chipper shredder, and then shot themselves in the foot. With buck shot.
And the Oscar goes to...... BobtheInquisitor for his leading male role in the Gone with the Xenomorph! That's laying it on a bit thick, dontchya think? I've been quite critical of this campaign and have not pledged due to my misgivings despite being one of the people clicking my browser refresh button at the posted start. It's technically already a success with 3x the goal stated so they didn't hang themselves...but they certainly haven't helped either and I agree the potential of these multiple IPs is being hamstrung by a variety of factors.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now....
I would have beg it would have made 3 times that. I figure they were betting on the name selling itself too with their take it or leave it attitude about the game.
GrimDork wrote: Meep. Sucks to see this one kind of struggling, I had expected such an IP to do much better. I realize there's a week and a half left, but I thought this was supposed to be the killer project of doom to end other projects.
No kidding.
Two months ago, I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now...
I can't believe how much Prodos is screwing up on this. They didn't just shoot themselves in the foot. No, they tied a noose around their neck, tossed the other end of the rope in an active chipper shredder, and then shot themselves in the foot. With buck shot.
And the Oscar goes to...... BobtheInquisitor for his leading male role in the Gone with the Xenomorph! That's laying it on a bit thick, dontchya think?
I'm sorry. I thought we were on the internet. If you can't take the histrionics, maybe you should talk to a real person or read a book or something.
But thank you for the oscar.
EDIT: Allow me to elaborate, though, through interpretive dance:
Resin. Resin prices. Pounds not dollars. Shipping whaaa? Off the grid. Predator$$. Maybe they don't show up on rendering at all. Aliens, Alien Resurrection, same diff? You have to spend money for the opportunity to spend money. Did I mention the prices? BTW, there will be retail plastics available outside of this campaign. Also, ponies and beejers. And oreo cookie shakes. Pretty much whatever you want, so long as you just don't spend money right now. Please don't pledge on our campaign or we might have to tell you what's going on! Board gamers? Bored lamers!
I've been quite critical of this campaign and have not pledged due to my misgivings despite being one of the people clicking my browser refresh button at the posted start. It's technically already a success with 3x the goal stated so they didn't hang themselves...but they certainly haven't helped either and I agree the potential of these multiple IPs is being hamstrung by a variety of factors.
Technically, it is a success. It's the kind of success that will have the fans discussing what a failure it was for years, but a success none the less. I mean, we are talking about the Alines IP, here, probably the third most beloved sci-fi franchise after Star Trek and Star Wars. Just because Prodos made their arbitrarily small goal and technically succeded doesn't mean they reached anything near the potential of the IP.
This reminds me of what happened with the Robotech Kickstarter, when that Paulson guy made the minis from metal and they had a successful kickstarter...oh wait. Maybe some bigger company needed to come around, kick some sand in Prodos' face and give us an AVP board game worthy of the franchise (or licensing fees, even).
Guys, for those with valid criticisms of this campaign:
I've had 2 suggestions to Prodos so far, and they have answered, and taken my feedback on both of them! The first, was for the 10-pound pledge level to double as shipping cost for international backers (they updated to say that yes, it did). The second, was to add a pledge level without the board game for wargamers. They did this.
For those of you who seriously care about the campaign- contact Prodos via the "contact us" button on Kickstarter. They will respond in all likelihood, and actually listen. Not only for me, but for others, they have done this.
The frustrating part is that valid criticism like Hellfury's gets drowned out in the noise of folks just piling on. Constructive feedback gets taken- I have successfully done so twice now. Just randomly complaining won't get much done, although you of course have that right on a forum. But, if you actually want to affect the campaign, there is opportunity to do so- again, I've done it twice.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now....
I would have beg it would have made 3 times that. I figure they were betting on the name selling itself too with their take it or leave it attitude about the game.
RiTides wrote: Guys, for those with valid criticisms of this campaign:
I've had 2 suggestions to Prodos so far, and they have answered, and taken my feedback on both of them! The first, was for the 10-pound pledge level to double as shipping cost for international backers (they updated to say that yes, it did). The second, was to add a pledge level without the board game for wargamers. They did this.
For those of you who seriously care about the campaign- contact Prodos via the "contact us" button on Kickstarter. They will respond in all likelihood, and actually listen. Not only for me, but for others, they have done this.
The frustrating part is that valid criticism like Hellfury's gets drowned out in the noise of folks just piling on. Constructive feedback gets taken- I have successfully done so twice now. Just randomly complaining won't get much done, although you of course have that right on a forum. But, if you actually want to affect the campaign, there is opportunity to do so- again, I've done it twice.
I actually have contacted them with a question about the board game. They seem like nice people, and there is nothing personal about this, but for Prodos' KS prices I'm going to have to find some added-value of my own here.
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Alpharius wrote: Have you followed RiTides suggestion and contacted them directly?
Yes. For all the posting I do here, I behave quite differently in different contexts.
GrimDork wrote: That other kickstarter does look kinda neat, too bad I don't have an AvP pledge to drop to go spend on it
Yes, too bad . Hopefully, the whole "I'll drop my pledge!" crowd finds other things to pay attention to. I forgot how big campaigns like this tend to draw folks like that, as I'm usually involved in smaller ones.
Despite the ruckus, it does seem Prodos listened to the feedback (setting up a Google Chat for tomorrow which is open to everyone, showing a clear picture of the board with a grid) and the pledge total has almost recovered to 185K. They also said in the comments that that goal was already unlocked since it was passed earlier, which is always nice.
Basically, there is opportunity to affect this campaign, and the creators do listen, so if you have feedback contacting them (as mentioned earlier) actually works really well, and the Google Chat tomorrow is probably an even better opportunity. Even just posting in the comments, if you are a backer, can get things done- that's how I got more attention on the lack of a wargaming pledge, for instance, even though I think they were already addressing it from my message to them.
As someone interested in this for wargaming, I'll be hoping they add a rulebook plus models pledge level like Isoulle said on the last page here. They have posted in the comments that they plan to actually add 2 more wargaming pledge levels when the rulebook unlocks, so I hope the rulebook is the next stretch goal after the Crusher
"Stimulant drugs"? Call me crazy but I never imagined the predators/yautja being the type to use drugs. I would have thought for sure that with their code of honor they would have at least frowned on that.
Was it a smart decision to go with resin, or would multi-part hard plastic have been better? Theoretically, plastic is better when you can sell a lot of kits due to scale, and you'd imagine that the AvP license would very much help you get that kind of demand. Kickstarter is the perfect way to raise the high capital needed for the expensive plastic moulds too. Wargames Factory have proven they can make excellent, highly detailed plastics such as this plastic mercenary from WWX that was just released in the wild (not to mention all the Dreamforge stuff) so I don't think lack of detail is much of a concern anymore. A well done Kickstarter funding a line of multi-part hard plastic AvP minis for use with their own game or other games would have been a cash cow for years to come.
Personally I'm still hype. I can get the anger over the price. For a board game its expensive. For a minis game its cheap (Go look at Infinity's minis prices, they're obscene especially considering they're half the size). They have stated this is more of a minis gamer kickstarter, the cheaper non-mini official release is designed for the board gaming crowd.
I'm happy with resin, but folks who are used to paying PVC prices (for lower quality, of course) may not be. Polystyrene (hard plastic) is hard to sculpt for, and while WWX and Dreamforge are success stories, Mantic's latest efforts show the challenges it can pose.
Prodos are a resin company, so it makes sense that they're using resin. Anything else would be a shot in the dark / something they'd never produced in before (as will the longer lead time retail board game with simpler plastic models).
basement.dweller wrote: I compiled a spreadsheet of the different pledges and made a price comparison based on figures only (inc shipping).
You can view it here : AVP pledge comparison It's nothing fancy, you are welcome to copy it and play with the numbers.
The best value so far is "If it bleeds we can kill it" at £210 (+£10 p&p) with a value of £392 that comes to a 44% discount
Next best is the base pledge really at £75 (+£10) with a value of £145 which comes to 41% discount.
The lowest discount is on the "Looking good there boss" at 31% discount, followed by "Get to the Chopper" at 33% discount.
As it stands - "Real Aliens" (£155) comes out cheaper (38%) than getting a base pledge (£75) + addon pledge (£100) inspite of the
freebies(35-36% depending on wether you are using 1 or 2 accounts). I guess this is more for those that want KS exclusive Berserkers.
It's still early days of course, and I reserve my rights to make a mistake... This includes the 2000 backers stretch and the 185k stretch.
Feel free to comment or suggest fancification. Most likely I'll just update this as stretchgoals are added.
Obviously the discount doesn't do much if you are not really into what's in the base box. I just thought it might be handy.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I would have said that a Kickstarter for a licensed AVP board game with highly detailed Aliens, Colonial Marines and Predators would have easily taken in a million dollars. I would have bet money on it. But now....
I would have beg it would have made 3 times that. I figure they were betting on the name selling itself too with their take it or leave it attitude about the game.
They only really take notice of criticisms when the funding falters or when it drops.
Damage control is not the way to run a successful business and shame on Fox for handing them the license.
Yes. I said it. its not personal, but again, Fox were fools to hand them the license because if they gave Fox a great presentation in order to get it, and if it was anything like we are seeing, then more the fool are they. And if the presentation was truly great, then we aren't seeing it so shame on Prodos.
I'm not buying it. Not their project concept anyways. I like their models, but clearly, I have a use for them that doesn't require their game to make use of them. I am but a small percentage.
It really does make me sad seeing this not be a blinding and resounding success.
Yes, I contacted Prodos about my concerns very early on. However, I do not like giving my money to people when I have to tell them how to take it. Especially when a large chunk of their backers share the same sentiment as I, yet their same suggestions go unheard as well.... until its time for damage control. And that, my dear Scarlet, is not something that evinces confidence. And so, I just can't be arsed to give much of a damn anymore if they fail or succeed. Hence, £300 lighter pledge than previously made.
Isoulle wrote: Personally I'm still hype. I can get the anger over the price. For a board game its expensive. For a minis game its cheap (Go look at Infinity's minis prices, they're obscene especially considering they're half the size).
That's right. Because Infiniti is so preposterously expensive on a per mini basis, AVP is therefore not expensive. Or maybe Infiniti is simply more overpriced and AVP is still too expensive? Maybe?
They have stated this is more of a minis gamer kickstarter, the cheaper non-mini official release is designed for the board gaming crowd.
It's always good to start a kickstarter by telling potential pledgers that you don't really need their money at all to make the product and that you will be releasing an even more accessible product later at a better price. The only think better is an arbitrarily large stretch goal gap to fund the opportunity for pledgers to pay more for add ons.
RiTides wrote: Prodos are a resin company, so it makes sense that they're using resin. Anything else would be a shot in the dark / something they'd never produced in before (as will the longer lead time retail board game with simpler plastic models).
That just sounds to me like they weren't a good choice for the license though if they were going to rely on resin if hard plastic was a better option. The AvP license should easily get the scale required for hard plastic so giving it to a resin company was questionable imo. They've designed some really nice minis there's no doubt, but it could have been so much better in the hands of a larger company that could deal with it better.
Dreamforge was a "resin company" until its hard plastic kickstarter too. Prodos could have done the same, outsourced the hard plastic troops and done resin characters/terrain stuff/etc. in house and gotten the best of both worlds. That is of course, if it was a better option which is what I'm trying to ascertain ; p
Isoulle wrote: Personally I'm still hype. I can get the anger over the price. For a board game its expensive. For a minis game its cheap (Go look at Infinity's minis prices, they're obscene especially considering they're half the size).
That's right. Because Infiniti is so preposterously expensive on a per mini basis, AVP is therefore not expensive. Or maybe Infiniti is simply more overpriced and AVP is still too expensive? Maybe?
They have stated this is more of a minis gamer kickstarter, the cheaper non-mini official release is designed for the board gaming crowd.
It's always good to start a kickstarter by telling potential pledgers that you don't really need their money at all to make the product and that you will be releasing an even more accessible product later at a better price. The only think better is an arbitrarily large stretch goal gap to fund the opportunity for pledgers to pay more for add ons.
1. Per minis AVP is not very expensive compared to most smaller companies. $8-13 is the average for something the same size or smaller.. Only companies that use plastics or have awful quality can produce stuff for cheaper (As they use economics of scale or hire crappy sculptors and use cheap casting technology because they don't need anything decent quality for low detail minis)
2. Better than lying about it. Besides, what's wrong with having a kickstarter for a single group of people? I mean videogame kickstarters don't expect non-video gamers to pledge and board game kickstarters don't expect non-board game players to pledge. For example I didn't like this kickstarter when it came out because I don't play boardgames. I was sad, but shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Then I read somewhere there will be a mini's game version and I cared. Different things appeal to different people.
RiTides wrote: Guys, for those with valid criticisms of this campaign:
I've had 2 suggestions to Prodos so far, and they have answered, and taken my feedback on both of them! The first, was for the 10-pound pledge level to double as shipping cost for international backers (they updated to say that yes, it did). The second, was to add a pledge level without the board game for wargamers. They did this.
For those of you who seriously care about the campaign- contact Prodos via the "contact us" button on Kickstarter. They will respond in all likelihood, and actually listen. Not only for me, but for others, they have done this.
The frustrating part is that valid criticism like Hellfury's gets drowned out in the noise of folks just piling on. Constructive feedback gets taken- I have successfully done so twice now. Just randomly complaining won't get much done, although you of course have that right on a forum. But, if you actually want to affect the campaign, there is opportunity to do so- again, I've done it twice.
Just to chime in, I contacted Prodos on the first (might be second, not sure) day of the campaign.
No reply. So...
With regards to the cards... yikes.
Those cards are terrible for a board game; they only solidify my notion that this is far more a skirmish/wargame then a board game. Seriously now, the information density on those cards is much greater then on, say, a Warmachine/Hordes card.
RiTides wrote: Prodos are a resin company, so it makes sense that they're using resin. Anything else would be a shot in the dark / something they'd never produced in before (as will the longer lead time retail board game with simpler plastic models).
That just sounds to me like they weren't a good choice for the license though if they were going to rely on resin if hard plastic was a better option. The AvP license should easily get the scale required for hard plastic so giving it to a resin company was questionable imo. They've designed some really nice minis there's no doubt, but it could have been so much better in the hands of a larger company that could deal with it better.
Dreamforge was a "resin company" until its hard plastic kickstarter too. Prodos could have done the same, outsourced the hard plastic troops and done resin characters/terrain stuff/etc. in house and gotten the best of both worlds. That is of course, if it was a better option which is what I'm trying to ascertain ; p
I would also point out the Kingdom Death was (a far more notable) resin company; massive success allowed them to move production into injection molded plastic. It does not seem so much an issue of company size, as immutable decisions.
Somewhere along the line, the decision was made that individual item pricing would be set very, very high (the Predators are priced at boutique resin prices even in the campaign!). This creates a situation where the possibilities of success are limited.
For example, I'd really like more then one sculpt for the fem Predator. But at a price of 10GBP each(!), it seems far more likely that she will remain the smurfette of this campaign.
I could care less about the game or the rules. If either turn out good it's a bonus for me. I want figures. My disappointment is the lack of poses (why would I want 2 box sets of Marines in the EXACT same pose) lame. I had really hoped to see all of the Colonial Marines from Aliens movie represented. I wanted to see Arnold and his Special Forces team. Danny Glover and his team from Predator 2. The flight crew from Alien Resurrection. Ripley and Newt. I had hoped that the Predators would be unique and represented from each movie. This has soooooo much potential to have been a blockbuster of a KS. My questions through interpretive dance (greatest line ever BobtheInquisitor)
Why wouldn't you have a game play vid prepared prior to launch?
Why wouldn't you have, at a minimum, renders of the figures you know you're going to offer for the KS?
Why would you make an offer of "invite a friend" that, although generous, you had to know would A) Cause chaos and B) would be a tracking nightmare. "I'm a friend of Machoman! Please make sure he gets credit!"
Why would you have a stretch goal that only grants a select pledge a reward? Then add a lesser reward that only gives the higher pledge level additional freebies and the higher stretch goal still excludes the lower pledge levels?
Why would you put whomever the person is that does the "replies" in that position knowing they are at communicating?
Why after seeing this poor communication and the responses about the poor communication wouldn't you then make immediate corrections?
Answering questions sporadically in the comments section or through PM's isn't going to cut it for those out there wanting information. If it wasn't for people like BrookM (who's now out) most of us would have no idea what's going on.
They should cancel this KS, get their together, and restart it when they have everything worked out. Cause this seems rushed and half at this point. If not this'll be a figure grab for me.
I'm here for figures, too. And they've raised 185K Pounds ($300K?) halfway through a short campaign. Hardly a disaster despite the talk making it out otherwise! If folks want to wait, by all means, wait. I'm here for high quality resin Aliens, and that's what's being offered. Prodos has the license, like it or not, and that's what they do. Not to everyone's tastes, but certainly to mine . I want quality figures over quantity, and that's what's being offered here. Plenty of folks like it, those who don't can get single piece plastic or the like at retail. No one is forced to pledge- just wait if you want a basic board game. But Prodos has the license, so there's no going back in that regard! For me, it's Aliens in high quality resin, and that's a dream come true
basement.dweller wrote: I compiled a spreadsheet of the different pledges and made a price comparison based on figures only (inc shipping).
You can view it here : AVP pledge comparison It's nothing fancy, you are welcome to copy it and play with the numbers.
The best value so far is "If it bleeds we can kill it" at £210 (+£10 p&p) with a value of £392 that comes to a 44% discount
Next best is the base pledge really at £75 (+£10) with a value of £145 which comes to 41% discount.
The lowest discount is on the "Looking good there boss" at 31% discount, followed by "Get to the Chopper" at 33% discount.
As it stands - "Real Aliens" (£155) comes out cheaper (38%) than getting a base pledge (£75) + addon pledge (£100) inspite of the
freebies(35-36% depending on wether you are using 1 or 2 accounts). I guess this is more for those that want KS exclusive Berserkers.
It's still early days of course, and I reserve my rights to make a mistake... This includes the 2000 backers stretch and the 185k stretch.
Feel free to comment or suggest fancification. Most likely I'll just update this as stretchgoals are added.
Obviously the discount doesn't do much if you are not really into what's in the base box. I just thought it might be handy.
While you didn't make any glaring mistakes in your comparison that I can see from a quick look, you did seem to within reason err on the side of Prodos whenever making a decision on the value of items. If I ever get into this it'll be at the 75 GBP mark so I'll only compare that. Using your own numbers, at that level *CURRENTLY* we get the base box 75, bezerker 10, free 15 addon, and free 10 model. Prodos in their own calculations sets the value of the core set at 75 and states that there is no discount at that level so I also count it as exactly that value and not that of the individual parts. In effect, I'm getting 110 GBP worth of models per Prodos' own published values at the 85 GBP pledge (including shipping). Factor in tax at 7% in my area and the total cost of picking it up locally when released is 117.7. The discount when compared to that alternative cost is 27% instead of the 41% you mention. Now I fully admit that there are problems inherent to each (like you assuming we'll make 2000 backers when that metric has plunged today and me assuming that the quality of future plastic is equal to the currently offered resin) and both analysis (like the "value" of a bezerker that is only available during the KS and won't be available supposedly at retail) but figured I'd post how a different reasonable set of assumptions comes out to a lower perceived value for the current offerings.
That's the relative value I'm looking at from my decidely 100% pro-consumer standpoint and it's less than 7% lower than simply ordering it from the warstore or 27% lower than ordering at retail when I can see the figures and have almost zero risk regarding the final quality.
We are all in it for the dollies. Let's face it, not many people would fall head over heels for the game if it offered cardboard discs with images of aliens or preds, etc.
So really, the quality of the dollies is only the beginning, or should be. While people like you and I are at least satisfied that these cool dollies are being made, there is an implicite expectation that is reasonable coming from the backers that there is a game attached to this.
The boardgamers are somewhat let down, the wargamers are a teensy bit happier, but overall as a game product as a whole, its kind of flubbed. It needs refinement. It needs better management. The game could be the most revolutionary thing ever, but we wouldn't know with how its poorly being portrayed.
It needs to be scrapped until they can get their gak together and make AVP 2 - electric boogaloo. The actual deluxe edition they are promising. It may actually be best to redux.
Which sucks, because I want my colonial marines this next summer. But I like long term success, not short term satisfaction.
For those of you who seriously care about the campaign- contact Prodos via the "contact us" button on Kickstarter. They will respond in all likelihood, and actually listen. Not only for me, but for others, they have done this.
The frustrating part is that valid criticism like Hellfury's gets drowned out in the noise of folks just piling on. Constructive feedback gets taken- I have successfully done so twice now. Just randomly complaining won't get much done, although you of course have that right on a forum. But, if you actually want to affect the campaign, there is opportunity to do so- again, I've done it twice.
I'm not a backer and I don't want to go in just to comment so I prefer to post my concerns and constructive criticisms on the official thread for the campaign on one of the most popular forums for minis gaming that the creators of the campaign check semi-regularly. That should be sufficient to at least make the opinion expressed public.
That's totally fine warboss, of course . You can also contact them via the link under their name on KS, or in the Google Chat tomorrow, if you choose
And the bar for success is interesting in these. $300K raised in 10 days is six times Zombicide 1 at this point, over twice Sedition Wars, etc.
$300K might not be what people think is good enough for the franchise, but it's a lot. No way this is getting rebooted fellas, if anything not going into the millions means they'll actually deliver on time, something I would really like for a change! It doesn't need to be millions to be a success. Kingdom Death is awesome, but will be very late... for hand cast resin models, having the total be a bit lower makes it easier to get me my resin Alien goodness . You guys can officially be jealous then . I'll take pics though, I promise
basement.dweller wrote: I compiled a spreadsheet of the different pledges and made a price comparison based on figures only (inc shipping).
You can view it here : AVP pledge comparison It's nothing fancy, you are welcome to copy it and play with the numbers.
The best value so far is "If it bleeds we can kill it" at £210 (+£10 p&p) with a value of £392 that comes to a 44% discount
Next best is the base pledge really at £75 (+£10) with a value of £145 which comes to 41% discount.
The lowest discount is on the "Looking good there boss" at 31% discount, followed by "Get to the Chopper" at 33% discount.
As it stands - "Real Aliens" (£155) comes out cheaper (38%) than getting a base pledge (£75) + addon pledge (£100) inspite of the
freebies(35-36% depending on wether you are using 1 or 2 accounts). I guess this is more for those that want KS exclusive Berserkers.
It's still early days of course, and I reserve my rights to make a mistake... This includes the 2000 backers stretch and the 185k stretch.
Feel free to comment or suggest fancification. Most likely I'll just update this as stretchgoals are added.
Obviously the discount doesn't do much if you are not really into what's in the base box. I just thought it might be handy.
While you didn't make any glaring mistakes in your comparison that I can see from a quick look, you did seem to within reason err on the side of Prodos whenever making a decision on the value of items. If I ever get into this it'll be at the 75 GBP mark so I'll only compare that. Using your own numbers, at that level *CURRENTLY* we get the base box 75, bezerker 10, free 15 addon, and free 10 model. Prodos in their own calculations sets the value of the core set at 75 and states that there is no discount at that level so I also count it as exactly that value and not that of the individual parts. In effect, I'm getting 110 GBP worth of models per Prodos' own published values at the 85 GBP pledge (including shipping). Factor in tax at 7% in my area and the total cost of picking it up locally when released is 117.7. The discount when compared to that alternative cost is 27% instead of the 41% you mention. Now I fully admit that there are problems inherent to each (like you assuming we'll make 2000 backers when that metric has plunged today and me assuming that the quality of future plastic is equal to the currently offered resin) and both analysis (like the "value" of a bezerker that is only available during the KS and won't be available supposedly at retail) but figured I'd post how a different reasonable set of assumptions comes out to a lower perceived value for the current offerings.
That's the relative value I'm looking at from my decidely 100% pro-consumer standpoint and it's less than 7% lower than simply ordering it from the warstore or 27% lower than ordering at retail when I can see the figures and have almost zero risk regarding the final quality.
I made the comparison based on their addon prices. If I wanted the same models as in the base pledge (including the freebies) without the actual "game" it would set me back £138-145 (disregarding shipping) instead of £75. I just wanted a comparison sheet to see if it's worthwhile getting a pledge or not, and if so how they stack up against each other. Assuming those are the future prices for their resin, it's quite a nice discount. If we don't get the 2000 backers extra £10, granted - it's £10 less. The campaign is not over yet though and there might still be some stuff adding value to the pledges.
The basic pledge with no freebies and no facehuggers contains figures that would run you £90 pounds. They might have screwed up the pricing somewhere on the addons because they were surprised when I said the base box held £90 worth of figures for £75 while the "Looking good" pledge with £105 worth of credit was £100. This was basically the moment they announced the new pledge as I was one of the people asking for it.
Other than that I just assumed the Berserker was worth £10 as the other preds were £10 The facehuggers come out at £2 a piece (£10 for 5).
The thing I am unsure of is how many Berserkers and 2000 pledgers stretch you can get on one account with multiple pledges. I assumed just 1 of each.
In typical Dakka fashion, many of you really don't understand this KS and few actually read about what it is for.
It is for the deluxe version of the game. What does that mean? Welp, it means you will NEVER be able to buy this version at a retailer, so any of you smartguys thinking you'll just pick it up from Warstore or your local shop? Nope, sorry.
As stated by Prodos, the retail version with the plastic pieces is already being funded via 20th Century Fox. It is due out late next year. This Kickstarter is NOT for that. What do the plastic pieces look like? No idea really, but I would assume along the lines of say Zombiecide or something. Decent detail, but not like resin can give you.
Back it. Don't back it. Prodos has a plan they are following, some of you may or may not agree with. It's fine. I can tell you they certainly aren't going to stop this whole campaign because a couple of internet geeks think they should.
Do I agree with all of it? Nope, I'd love to see more Predator stuff right now. Will I end up seeing more eventually? Yup, at some point.
Warzone Resurrection is a great game of theirs and the minis are fantastic. That's what I am here for. Are they Mantic or Reaper? Nope. Their quality is heads above both of those, so I am happy to pay for it (I also have given Mantic boatloads of money over 3 kickstarters).
So by all means, keep up the typical complaining and entitlement. I know, I know, its your right as a consumer to yell to the heavens about every little thing you perceive as something outside of your expectations, even when it isn't. Its Dakka. Its what you guys do. Meanwhile, I'll lock in my cash for some minis I've waited 20+ years for.
kaiohx wrote: In typical Dakka fashion, many of you really don't understand this KS and few actually read about what it is for.
It is for the deluxe version of the game. What does that mean? Welp, it means you will NEVER be able to buy this version at a retailer, so any of you smartguys thinking you'll just pick it up from Warstore or your local shop? Nope, sorry.
As stated by Prodos, the retail version with the plastic pieces is already being funded via 20th Century Fox. It is due out late next year. This Kickstarter is NOT for that. What do the plastic pieces look like? No idea really, but I would assume along the lines of say Zombiecide or something. Decent detail, but not like resin can give you.
For someone going on a mini-rant about reading comprehension on dakka, you seemed to have missed some pertinent details yourself.
Spoiler:
warboss wrote: Now I fully admit that there are problems inherent to each (like you assuming we'll make 2000 backers when that metric has plunged today and me assuming that the quality of future plastic is equal to the currently offered resin) and both analysis (like the "value" of a bezerker that is only available during the KS and won't be available supposedly at retail) but figured I'd post how a different reasonable set of assumptions comes out to a lower perceived value for the current offerings.
kaiohx wrote: In typical Dakka fashion, many of you really don't understand this KS and few actually read about what it is for.
It is for the deluxe version of the game. What does that mean? Welp, it means you will NEVER be able to buy this version at a retailer, so any of you smartguys thinking you'll just pick it up from Warstore or your local shop? Nope, sorry.
As stated by Prodos, the retail version with the plastic pieces is already being funded via 20th Century Fox. It is due out late next year. This Kickstarter is NOT for that. What do the plastic pieces look like? No idea really, but I would assume along the lines of say Zombiecide or something. Decent detail, but not like resin can give you.
Back it. Don't back it. Prodos has a plan they are following, some of you may or may not agree with. It's fine. I can tell you they certainly aren't going to stop this whole campaign because a couple of internet geeks think they should.
Do I agree with all of it? Nope, I'd love to see more Predator stuff right now. Will I end up seeing more eventually? Yup, at some point.
Warzone Resurrection is a great game of theirs and the minis are fantastic. That's what I am here for. Are they Mantic or Reaper? Nope. Their quality is heads above both of those, so I am happy to pay for it (I also have given Mantic boatloads of money over 3 kickstarters).
So by all means, keep up the typical complaining and entitlement. I know, I know, its your right as a consumer to yell to the heavens about every little thing you perceive as something outside of your expectations, even when it isn't. Its Dakka. Its what you guys do. Meanwhile, I'll lock in my cash for some minis I've waited 20+ years for.
Enjoy
Well that was a minute of my life I'll never get back. What was the point of your post again? Oh that's right. To complain on dakka about people complaining on dakka. Got it.
That just sounds to me like they weren't a good choice for the license though if they were going to rely on resin if hard plastic was a better option. The AvP license should easily get the scale required for hard plastic so giving it to a resin company was questionable imo. They've designed some really nice minis there's no doubt, but it could have been so much better in the hands of a larger company that could deal with it better.
Dreamforge was a "resin company" until its hard plastic kickstarter too. Prodos could have done the same, outsourced the hard plastic troops and done resin characters/terrain stuff/etc. in house and gotten the best of both worlds. That is of course, if it was a better option which is what I'm trying to ascertain ; p
they weren't a good choice for the license
This is pretty much it right here.
It's nice that so many people love boutique resins, but it is 2013.
1. Per minis AVP is not very expensive compared to most smaller companies. $8-13 is the average for something the same size or smaller.. Only companies that use plastics or have awful quality can produce stuff for cheaper (As they use economics of scale or hire crappy sculptors and use cheap casting technology because they don't need anything decent quality for low detail minis)
Aliens vs Predator should not, not, not be a niche-of-a-niche, small boutique license! Only the biggest or the most obscure TTWG companies charge that much for grunts. AVP isn't a big enough franchise to utilize an economy of scale??
PS: Only companies that use plastics can be cheaper-->Prodos is the wrong company. Plastics are the present. Not the future. The present.
2. Better than lying about it. Besides, what's wrong with having a kickstarter for a single group of people? I mean videogame kickstarters don't expect non-video gamers to pledge and board game kickstarters don't expect non-board game players to pledge. For example I didn't like this kickstarter when it came out because I don't play boardgames. I was sad, but shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Then I read somewhere there will be a mini's game version and I cared. Different things appeal to different people.
Either way, Prodos was going to expand a (successful..?) board game into a tabletop wargame. Either way, there would have been units and add-ons available for backers.
So, Kickstarter is "supposed" to fund a project or help improve it. This kickstarter is not funding or improving the retail version of the game. When customers buy the retail version of the game and find any reason whatsoever to feel dissatisfied, this pair of facts will act as a rage multiplier. And the customer would be absolutely right.
Why should Prodos use the Kickstarter and all this money/publicity/feedback to perfect their boutique collector's range for grognards when they could be using it to improve or fine-tune their mainstream retail product based on a beloved property? Which of those two products has more potential to keep the lights on in Prodos Tower for years to come? Which one of those products will bring more people to the Prodos website to look at their other fine products? Which one will bring in more money and more customers to support the tabletop wargame range?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kaiohx wrote: In typical Dakka fashion, many of you really don't understand this KS and few actually read about what it is for.
It is for the deluxe version of the game. What does that mean? Welp, it means you will NEVER be able to buy this version at a retailer, so any of you smartguys thinking you'll just pick it up from Warstore or your local shop? Nope, sorry.
Can you provide me a link to where Prodos stated this, please? I would like to see this for myself.
Using a Kickstarter to fund a product that you never intend to sell at retail is all kinds of ...well, I think it will give me enough material for a dozen more posts easily. What a cunning plan.
(For the record, I would prefer the plastic board game pieces anyway over flimsy, overpriced resin. Unless they're terribad. But then, there would be the sweet schadenfreude of seeing shelf after shelf of unsold merchandise gathering dust as Prodos struggles for relevance.)
So by all means, keep up the typical complaining and entitlement. I know, I know, its your right as a consumer to yell to the heavens about every little thing you perceive as something outside of your expectations, even when it isn't. Its Dakka. Its what you guys do. Meanwhile, I'll lock in my cash for some minis I've waited 20+ years for.
Enjoy
Well, if you like taking whatever is given to you, paying out the noose and every other orifice for it, and begging for more, there's this game-making workshop I should introduce you to. They seem like your kind of people.
Was there any serious discussion on the characters, such as the Newt sculpt in there?
I'd throw down a few extra pounds for some of that action that was alluded to earlier from the other poster.
Arnald and his crew, Hicks and the rest of the squad, even for the characters from the rest of the films, any way of getting some at least, facsimilies of the characters from the comics?
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (possibly in this thread?) that the actor's likenesses aren't included in the licence. That makes sense, as I've seen it before with these licences - I'm (or was - I've been priced out of new stuff!) a Hot Toys collector, and the Aliens line of Colonial Marines didn't have the actors' likenesses, and hence only looked vaguely like their characters. Essentially, makers of licenced product need to contact the actors (for the older, original films) individually and work out deals. This becomes problematic with so many actors and differing opinions of the worth of their likenesses (when they need to be bought separately and on top of the film licences..
Hence:
Billy From Predator (Sonny Landham)
Kane from Alien (William Hurt)
As for the Kickstarter, resin and prices. Well, regardless of whether I like it or not, or think it's good enough value or not (no to both) - what's being Kickstarted here isn't the boardgame, or a game (they're clearly fumbling around in the dark with both) - what they're Kickstarting here is a boutique resin miniature line, with too-expensive-for-me-especially-via-KS-a-year-in-advance price point. This stuff has little relevance to the game directly, they're going to have their boxed game, with mass-market plastics. Which may be good, bad or ugly - while these figures are the high-priced, boutique "collector's editions" sold on their website for a packet.
For many of us, particularly gamers, these aren't the figures we're looking for - those figures may never be made, as Prodos is skipping affordable resin troops like Victoria Minis' new/remastered stuff, and trying to go the McVey Studios path with them. For me, it's too much, but I do see what they're doing. I'd prefer to spend that kind of AVP-cash on things like this and this. YMMV.
From earlier comments it sounds like they are not able to produce any miniatures in the likeness of characters from the movie which seems a really odd term to have in there.
I am happy with the resin miniatures so far, boardgame is a nice bonus, I will up my pledge at the end to include the resin terrain. Currently 300k US$ is a lot of money for a 3 person company. And if 1200 people want to buy the more expensive Deluxe boardgame, I see no problem for the cheaper retail version with single piece plastic miniatures.
There I said it.
As I just explained - it's to do with licencing. Back in those dark, old days - like the mid-late 1980's, actors didn't routinely sign away their likeness rights as part of their acting contacts for films. This means that individual licencors have to chase up each actor that they want to licence since Fox doesn't own their film likenesses. Oddly, people like Ahnuld charge a reasonable amount - probably more than is reasonable for a three-man operation like Prodos to afford.
BrookM wrote: After giving it some more thought I'm deciding to pull out myself, in the end this just isn't for me.
I don't know who you are... or how you got access to Brook's account, but i warn you i have a unique set of skills, skills which will bore a person like you but not brookM. Give him back his colonial marines and I'll let you go free without talking about colonial marines.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Can you provide me a link to where Prodos stated this, please? I would like to see this for myself.
Using a Kickstarter to fund a product that you never intend to sell at retail is all kinds of ...well, I think it will give me enough material for a dozen more posts easily. What a cunning plan.
The AvP The Hunt Begins Deluxe Edition can be ordered here only on Kickstarter. It is a bespoked and Kickstarter Exclusive version of the game designed specifically for the model connoisseur and collector alike.
Seems pretty clear cut, eh? Right there on the front page.
Yonan wrote: Was it a smart decision to go with resin, or would multi-part hard plastic have been better? Theoretically, plastic is better when you can sell a lot of kits due to scale, and you'd imagine that the AvP license would very much help you get that kind of demand. Kickstarter is the perfect way to raise the high capital needed for the expensive plastic moulds too. Wargames Factory have proven they can make excellent, highly detailed plastics such as this plastic mercenary from WWX that was just released in the wild (not to mention all the Dreamforge stuff) so I don't think lack of detail is much of a concern anymore. A well done Kickstarter funding a line of multi-part hard plastic AvP minis for use with their own game or other games would have been a cash cow for years to come.
They looked into doing plastic (polystyrene) with their warzone campaign,
but what they found they could get made did not pass their quality threshold compared to their resin so they gave up on doing the plastic
BrookM wrote: After giving it some more thought I'm deciding to pull out myself, in the end this just isn't for me.
I don't know who you are... or how you got access to Brook's account, but i warn you i have a unique set of skills, skills which will bore a person like you but not brookM. Give him back his colonial marines and I'll let you go free without talking about colonial marines.
I'm sorry, my erstwhile enthusiasm has been slowly killed off, but that shouldn't deter others from fighting the good fight. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to hide in the vents some more..
You know, some of us aren't waiting until retail to be "smartguys", some of us just feel like we should support the local stores that we play most of our games at. I didn't support the Warzone KS for this reason and I'm currently still waiting to see if that ever hits shelves (did they even manage to secure a US distributor?).
Something I'm concerned about: supposedly they plan on releasing the retail version with plastics, but they tried plastics for Warzone and they didn't meet their quality expectations. So does that mean they found someone else to do plastics or that the quality was "good enough" for AVP but not their other game?
Kroothawk wrote: I am happy with the resin miniatures so far, boardgame is a nice bonus, I will up my pledge at the end to include the resin terrain. Currently 300k US$ is a lot of money for a 3 person company. And if 1200 people want to buy the more expensive Deluxe boardgame, I see no problem for the cheaper retail version with single piece plastic miniatures.
There I said it.
Agreed, Kroot.
Those pining for plastic? Wait for retail. It'll be a longer wait, and likely Zombicide like minis. These guys aren't GW and polystyrene is still a pipe dream for most company's not in WGF's huge queue.
Would be great to talk about the campaign and developments, if we could interject such discussion at some point here
Sidstyler wrote: You know, some of us aren't waiting until retail to be "smartguys", some of us just feel like we should support the local stores that we play most of our games at. I didn't support the Warzone KS for this reason and I'm currently still waiting to see if that ever hits shelves (did they even manage to secure a US distributor?).
Something I'm concerned about: supposedly they plan on releasing the retail version with plastics, but they tried plastics for Warzone and they didn't meet their quality expectations. So does that mean they found someone else to do plastics or that the quality was "good enough" for AVP but not their other game?
The retail game box is meant to sell to the boardgame audience with boardgame quality plastic (and no assembly)
so I'm sure it won't look as good as the resin and will be monopose.
It depends on what you're after from the game, (if you want the detailed, poseable stuff back the KS)
How poseable is the KS stuff? Until they show sprues/unassembled figures it is really hard to tell. Certain arms may be designed to only fit on a certain torso for example. If legs and torso are a single piece there is another limit. Depending on the way joints work arms may only fit into shoulders a certain way.
I'd be interested to hear from any Warzone backer how brittle (or not) Prodos resin casts are. I recently had a resin mini from another company fall from a shelf and it fractured into several pieces. Granted, I don't ordinarily treat any miniature that way, but other plastics don't shatter so easily.
Is the Prodos resin more resilient? It's a major consideration for me in terms of the AVP campaign.
RiTides wrote: There is a Warzone thread in the Misc. Games subforum with some initial reviews (very positive) and pics. On a phone atm but will link to later.
Got you covered. I also filtered the thread based upon Ronin_eX as he did a review of the goodies he had.
Azazelx wrote: Essentially, makers of licenced product need to contact the actors (for the older, original films) individually and work out deals.
It's funny you use Sonny Landham as an example, as he once tried to sue Galoob for using his likeness wothout permission (back when they did Aliens and Predator Micro Machines play sets) and the Sixth Circuit held:
In sum, Landham has not demonstrated—either through direct evidence or by virtue of Galoob's use of the "Billy" character—that his persona has "significant commercial value" or that the "Billy" toy invokes his own persona, as distinct from that of the fictional character.
Bit of a blow to the old ego, eh? The Hot doll may be a different matter, considering the degree of likeness possible in that scale (the Dutch one is spot-on,for example). But a 28mm miniatures is probably far more like the Micro Machine figure than one of those dolls. Also, Fox has not shied away from using the likenesses of actors from these properties in other lines, as with the aforementioned Dutch doll and the newer NECA Dutch, Hudson, and Hicks figures.
I always look at Sunny Landham in a different light after the making of Predator featurette in which it's stated that thye had to have bodyguards around to protect the actors/cast from him. Was he that much of an aggressive liability?
RiTides wrote: There is a Warzone thread in the Misc. Games subforum with some initial reviews (very positive) and pics. On a phone atm but will link to later.
Got you covered. I also filtered the thread based upon Ronin_eX as he did a review of the goodies he had.
Thanks Kan . And Ronin is the one who has posted the best reviews so far, so that is a good way to sort it . His own pics (which I believe have some conversions to the base figures done) is at the bottom of that page you linked to.
Medium of Death wrote: I always look at Sunny Landham in a different light after the making of Predator featurette in which it's stated that thye had to have bodyguards around to protect the actors/cast from him. Was he that much of an aggressive liability?
If anyone wants real info, btw, just scroll through Prodos' comments (as from their profile page you can see only theirs), they've provided a lot in there!
Google hangout is tonight which should give even more answers. Apparently they had to remove 75% of the video since they were still waiting for approval on much of it. Fox not responding quickly is part of the reason there seems to be a delay- where Prodos can address things quickly in the comments, but not make something "official" until it gets run up the chain. They are having an open gameplay at one of their stores and have said people are welcome to record it / etc, likely then it's not their fault the info gets out . So hopefully someone does that, as apparently the game is already playable and they will be doing so at the store... with 100 aliens!
People are currently discussing if the Queen is on a 120mm base as it seems might've been mentioned in the interview that was posted earlier in the thread from Youtube. Hopefully someone gets confirmation on that tonight... that would be massive
The 120mm base size for the queen was mentioned. but if their tunnel.size is 50mm wide, then it will be impossible for the queen to be used in the board game other than a mission objective in a room.
which isn't a bad thing, just limits its use in that format considerably.
My interest has certainly waned since watching the vid. But TBF weekends are always hard on KS projects, especially in the middle stretch. Let's see if things don't liven up by mid-week.
I think the PredAlien was approved before the project started?
And you're right MDS of course, but I've decided that, since they've shown willingness to lower stretch goals (Crusher only 5K beyond the previous stretch) all will likely be unlocked anyway, and I'd rather have the campaign be a bit smaller so they can actually deliver on it. Hand cast resin takes a while to make models with, so this is actually a good thing in a way, imo!
I've been a part of too many campaigns that have blown up and then been delayed by 6 months, a year, or more. Would love to avoid that here.
And I agree Hellfury, Queen sounds so big that it might not be as usable for the board game. Or maybe they've thought of that and have a workaround (non-egg-sack version?). But I'm pretty stoked for a gigantic, 120mm base Queen, personally
A detachable egg sack like the HorrorClix version would probably work. Make a custom base for the egg sack that the queen's XXmm base can hook/set into.
If they are smart and plan on doing an egg sac, that they follow wizkidsnlead and makenthe queen easily removable from her reproductive prison and usable as a freely running entity on her own, possibly smaller and more managable, base.
Automatically Appended Next Post: bah. ninjaed by captjake.
Azazelx wrote: Essentially, makers of licenced product need to contact the actors (for the older, original films) individually and work out deals.
It's funny you use Sonny Landham as an example, as he once tried to sue Galoob for using his likeness wothout permission (back when they did Aliens and Predator Micro Machines play sets) and the Ninth Circuit held:
In sum, Landham has not demonstrated—either through direct evidence or by virtue of Galoob's use of the "Billy" character—that his persona has "significant commercial value" or that the "Billy" toy invokes his own persona, as distinct from that of the fictional character.
Bit of a blow to the old ego, eh? The Hot doll may be a different matter, considering the degree of likeness possible in that scale (the Dutch one is spot-on,for example). But a 28mm miniatures is probably far more like the Micro Machine figure than one of those dolls. Also, Fox has not shied away from using the likenesses of actors from these properties in other lines, as with the aforementioned Dutch doll and the newer NECA Dutch, Hudson, and Hicks figures.
Yeah, I read up on all of the Landham stuff while the Hot Toys figure's release was ongoing. There's an (obscured) likeness under the extra face paint and blonde hair, and a likeness is still achievable via a strip and repaint (as google will show you), but their prototypes had a proper Sonny likeness, with accurate paint, and the production model had it obscured and changed - precisely because of Landham's litigative nature and lack of specific licence. Hot Toys have a solid history of working with Arnie, and so he's one of the actors they tracked down to licence his likeness (over several films/figures). The strong difference between the Galoob case and the Hot Toys case is that Landham tried to claim the rights to "Billy" as a character concept, even when "Billy" was a tiny, badly-detailed generic figure, while the Hot Toys figure looked like Sonny Landhamas seen in predator. Hot Toys felt that Landham had much more of a case in this instance, since the 1:6 scale figure actually had a strong Sonny Landham licence, while the Galoob/Micro Machines figure.... well, see for yourself...
Compare the likeness:
(Billy is the one in the middle)
One is of a small blob, while the other is a good resemblance of a specific actor's head who did not sign away his likeness rights.
Given Landham's litigious nature, and the level of quality in Prodos' sculpts of 2013 compared to the Galoob sculpts of 1999/2000 - not to mention the can of worms it opens with others like Arnie and Ventura and Weaver and... well, Prodos is a small company. I doubt they'd be happy with a legal fight with Landham, let alone any of the others. And the additional costs of licencing likeness rights from Arnie, Ventura, Weathers, Weaver, Biehn, etc etc...
If you read the opinion, the issue isn't really how much it looks like him. It's more about the degree to which the character's persona and the actor's persona are tied together. Other than Schwarzenegger and Sigorney Weaver, I doubt any of the actors appearing in either series can claim (under the Ninth Circuit's standard) that their characters invoke their own personas.
I'm talking about likeness rights, not character rights. That and the fact that there is a history of litigation involved, and that Prodos being a 3-man company may not want to risk the stouch.
No egg sack for the Queen, Powerloader is in, they are looking to add another weapons sprue for the marines. No civilians during KS but will be done later, possible Lieutenant later. They are looking at adding some of the Heroes from the old AvP game they just need final permission. Clear resin Predators. The board sections should be comparible to Space Hulk when finished 4mm thick.
RiTides they didn't identify that as the warrior (just said guess what) the head crest looks more Praetorian to me.
DaveC wrote: No egg sack for the Queen, Powerloader is in, they are looking to add another weapons sprue for the marines. No civilians during KS but will be done later, possible Lieutenant later. They are looking at adding some of the Heroes from the old AvP game they just need final permission. Clear resin Predators. The board sections should be comparible to Space Hulk when finished 4mm thick.
RiTides they didn't identify that as the warrior (just said guess what) the head crest looks more Praetorian to me.
I definitely think it's the Warrior! Would be interesting to get other's thoughts.
Hope the folks who were interested actually watched the video, it addressed Many questions people had, and as many as they could answer while they were being asked live
DaveC wrote: No egg sack for the Queen, Powerloader is in, they are looking to add another weapons sprue for the marines. No civilians during KS but will be done later, possible Lieutenant later. They are looking at adding some of the Heroes from the old AvP game they just need final permission. Clear resin Predators. The board sections should be comparible to Space Hulk when finished 4mm thick.
RiTides they didn't identify that as the warrior (just said guess what) the head crest looks more Praetorian to me.
Those are a bit disappointing in my opinion... They look nothing like the alien warrior from "Aliens" so which movie/game are they from? Ahh - more people chimed in saying that looks like the Praetorian. Makes sense.
Damn! I was so looking forward to getting a small army of these... (Hopefully they are still coming!)
Here is one of my favorite sculpts from Geometric Designs in 1/8 scale... They are oop.
Btw - there are some awesome garage kit buildups of predators and aliens on this blog painted by Joe Dunaway
I am guessing that is a Praetorian as well. Mostly due.to the head crest. The width and the anterior aspect of the head is not consistent with the warrior seen in aliens.
One or 2 other bits Weyland Yutani troops will be part of the colonial marine faction, the clear resin figure shown looked like the Predalien it was just a test cast only the Predators will be clear resin. The Resin Terrain has sufficient parts to play the game the card tiles contain a lot of extras that aren't always used.
Ktulhut wrote: I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks it's anything other than a Praetorian.
Personally I had no idea what a praetorian was a few days ago until DaveC pointed me at the wiki... Not everyone is familiar with the stuff created for the videogames... I did however feel it didn't resemble any warrior I knew of.
Ktulhut wrote: I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks it's anything other than a Praetorian.
Personally I had no idea what a praetorian was a few days ago until DaveC pointed me at the wiki... Not everyone is familiar with the stuff created for the videogames... I did however feel it didn't resemble any warrior I knew of.
That's fine. Hey just so you know, that wiki has a lot of rubbish on it too, don't take the whole thing as gospel. Either way, the Praetorian guards showed up in the Female War comic series (iirc), and began to show up in the shape we see above throughout the video games.
Huh! You guys are probably right. In that case, I assume the base it is on is a bigger one (maybe a 40mm circle? since they said the Praetorian is 80mm high).
The base is throwing the scale off in my mind, but if that's a 40mm circle then this makes a lot more sense
Wish we could see the Warriors, though! I guess they're not allowed to show anything officially until approval (they talked about this in the video, too) but sneak peaks might not really count
Manchu wrote: Aside from the Beserker, are there any other KS-exclusive models?
There's a group of entries in the FAQ on the main KS page that talk about related points:
AvP FAQ wrote:When will the retail (plastic) version of AVP Board Game be released?
Late 2014
Will the deluxe version be available after KS?
No it is a KS exclusive version
Will the resin models in the main box set be available later?
Not in the Box Set. We may sell some of them as expansion sets later, but which and when is to be defined. It won't be before early 2015.
I put all 3 of those together to give context. The Berserker is the only truly exclusive model (you can't even add on copies of it). But when the resin models from the main box will be available is unknown at this point. The other resin "add-ons" I would think will definitely be available, but I can see why they'd be unsure if they'll have resin facehuggers in the future, for example, if they have single-piece plastic ones coming out (i.e. they'd be competing with themselves at that point, or it might be a redundant product, even if it is higher quality).
RiTides wrote: Huh! You guys are probably right. In that case, I assume the base it is on is a bigger one (maybe a 40mm circle? since they said the Praetorian is 80mm high).
The base is throwing the scale off in my mind, but if that's a 40mm circle then this makes a lot more sense
Wish we could see the Warriors, though! I guess they're not allowed to show anything officially until approval (they talked about this in the video, too) but sneak peaks might not really count
While that doesn't necessarily mean the render had a 50mm circle under it (since they use those bases with a large lip on them, anyway, and so might not model them with the lip in place) that does help, thanks
I like how they are thinking ahead to the future, although the "River Ghost" from Predators is probably not a good example for a faction. They'd be far better going for Weyland Yutani.
They'd be better getting this KS sorted out at this time.
So I understand from watching that video that there is 3 different ways to play.
Basic boardgame rules Advanced boardgame rules with character customisation Tabletop Game, Squad level (with or without character customisation?)
Not sure about the environmental cards, hopefully you can discard some if for exaple you are choosing to fight on a "Hadley's Hope" type setting.
It's quite interesting that they've made it so interchangable with Warzone, I think that's a good idea in the long run.
Medium of Death wrote: It's quite interesting that they've made it so interchangable with Warzone, I think that's a good idea in the long run.
Agreed! Also, my local board game geek friend watched the whole Q&A and said it put his mind much more at ease / he is much more confident in backing things now. The limit to what Prodos has been allowed to reveal on the KS page has made it hard to tell how far along they really are, but apparently they can reveal much more "off the cuff" in these live streams. Very glad to hear this was his take on it as he's much more of a board gamer than I am
I hope Prodos distills the important info from that session and either add it to the project FAQ or as an update so that folks don't have to watch the hour long video or search 9k comments or other forums for the info. Sound like the put out some good stuff, BUT properly managing the KS means making sure that info is easily accessible to backers and potential backers.
I think another very confidence boosting line was that they see this as a long term project over the next several years.
It was definitely good to see the enthusiasm that the Prodos team have for the project. Certainly I think they do have stuff that they just simply can't show us which reduces my fear in them being unprepared.
I like the idea of squads being able to split up and move around independantly.
Manchu wrote: I'm not talking about character rights, either.
Then you're not talking about the points I actually brought up.
I guess not? Anyway, it was only my intention to talk about US law on the matter and the actual case rather than speculate about Prodos or entirely hypothetical legal arguments. Sonny Landham's case is often said to come down to the Micro Machine figure having indistinct/no features and so, because it did not look like anyone much less him, he lost his case. But that's not really what the Sixth Circuit decided. The application to this project is Prodos might could give us characters from the films, all else being equal license-wise, so long as they're not trading on the fame of an actor (and here we're in a potentially murky place) as opposed to trading on the licensed character. The old Kenner figure of Ripley springs to mind here.
Manchu wrote: I'm not talking about character rights, either.
Then you're not talking about the points I actually brought up.
I guess not? Anyway, it was only my intention to talk about US law on the matter and the actual case rather than speculate about Prodos or entirely hypothetical legal arguments. Sonny Landham's case is often said to come down to the Micro Machine figure having indistinct/no features and so, because it did not look like anyone much less him, he lost his case. But that's not really what the Sixth Circuit decided. The application to this project is Prodos might could give us characters from the films, all else being equal license-wise, so long as they're not trading on the fame of an actor (and here we're in a potentially murky place) as opposed to trading on the licensed character. The old Kenner figure of Ripley springs to mind here.
I wonder how much of it is related to it being a direct product of the fim in question, too: GoldenEye had originally thought about adding in the previous Bond actors (Save Lazenby) into Goldeneye, but apparently it never got off the ground due to not getting the rights for the actors faces. Or perhaps video games are just a completely different monster.
Hellfury wrote: Because here, EVERYONE is a bar certified lawyer.
The word is licensed. And there are a number of us on Dakka, including two moderators.
Justice and Rule wrote: GoldenEye had originally thought about adding in the previous Bond actors (Save Lazenby) into Goldeneye, but apparently it never got off the ground due to not getting the rights for the actors faces.
That strikes me as quite a clear example of evoking the actor's persona rather than the character.
Hellfury wrote: Because here, EVERYONE is a bar certified lawyer.
The word is licensed. And there are a number of us on Dakka, including two moderators.
I know. I've been on this forum for 15 years now. The info you just provided doesn't make the off topic, and ultimately circular, mental masturbatory execises in futility any more engaging.to read or participate in.
That's what this forum needs. An entire subsection devoted to nothing about argueing about legal assertions. Sounds like a hoot. Wish we had one. So I could avoid it like the plague.
Hellfury wrote: The info you just provided doesn't make the off topic, and ultimately circular, mental masturbatory execises in futility any more engaging.to read or participate in
You're free to get lost if a thread doesn't interest you. But you aren't in a position to decide what is off-topic. Even if you were, you'd have a hard time explaining why the history of the Aliens and Predator licenses is irrelevant to the discussion. Of course, we don't know the details of the license Prodos holds from Fox. But even without being privy to that agreement, we can reason from what has happened in the past to see that there is more to the issue of producing or not producing, for example, Ripley or Dutch figures than an actor's rights in her or his likeness.
Not to put a downer on this thread (*sniggers*), but is there much difference between “Reach $X amount to receive $Y amount more stuff of your choice” and “Reach $X amount to receive specific models A, B and C”?
Surely a stretch goal that lets you pick what you want is better than one that nets you something you may not want at all?
What does 2000 backers payback time mean? I thought that stretch goal was for everyone of in the pipe and above and not just paybacktime backers. Or do you think that is in addition to?
£270,000 for another free model? Why couldn't of the Queen been £270,000? Seriously doubting we'll get to £290,000 in ten days time. This KickStarter has been one disappointment after another. Real shame.
It means they'll give us a "free" miniature, I believe. This was promised a while back after almost no one liked the "get a buddy to pledge and we'll give you both a free miniature."
It's good to see the rest of the goals, thankfully the Queen isn't above 300,000.
Kind of wish the power loader was a USCM weaponised variant. Not sure what the difference will be in terms of aesthetic of the Young Blood Predators, compared to the three we have already seen. They would have been better giving us an Elder Predator that was more armoured.
I think if these goals had been revealed from the start it would have helped massively
I'm curious about how Prodos is taking the long term view of this product, hoping to do the license justice for years, while at the same time saying the minis they spent the most time and care on will only be sold during the kickstarter...or maybe in late 2015; they're not sure; they haven't thought about it; it's soooo far away.
I really hope they put at least as much effort into the actual retail product. Should it not be top-notch, I'll always wonder how much they skimped on it due to the kickstarter and if they felt like the retail customers didn't deserve as nice a product. The way they are running this does not endear me to Prodos.
Medium of Death wrote: I think if these goals had been revealed from the start it would have helped massively
That raises an interesting point -- how would people have reacted to so many "get more add-on money" goals from the start. I don't believe it would have changed much; the complaint at the beginning was that the stretch goals were just approaching what the initial reward should have been.
Well, here's hoping we get to see some of these new models rather than recolored pics of action figures. I think that's the only thing that will keep me on board at this point.
True, I still think that stretch for £210 backers and up is a bit of kick in the teeth. Have Prodos updated that chart rundown now that a few more goals have been unlocked?
I think they said in the video they were going to get proper pictures up of the existing kits to show detail. Hopefully we'll have those new renders no later than Wednesday.
As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods. Hmm perhaps their Young Bloods will look like this...
Do eeet! Make it, make it now! C'mon Prodos, the design is right here!
STOKED from the finally fully-filled out stretch goals! I can't understand why people think free stuff is bad... Gonna have to consider upping my pledge from "Payback Time" to "Real Aliens Ain't From Mars" depending on how much the upcoming stretch goals run for...
Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...
Medium of Death wrote:
As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...
I'm not sure what angle they'll end up going. I can only assume Yound Bloods having more armour is either
A: A personal choice, as the other 2 that join him in that film arn't overly armoured
B: A rank thing, where younger less experienced wear more and the more experienced chaps shed it in favour of mobility/rule of cool.
C: A combo of the above.
I don't think the Predators in the AvP series were any broader than the orginal. It's just the armour that particular one is wearing.
edit clearly picture, but without the caption..
Medium of Death wrote:
As for the Elder/Armoured Predator, they can draw inspiration from AvP, as the Predators in that looked awesome despite being Young Bloods
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Also, PLEASE DO NOT use the Predator designs from AVP, they look just awful. Too fat and broad, they look like they can hardly move. I'm curious to see how Young Bloods are differed in the minis compared to a regular Predator hunting pack...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm curious about how Prodos is taking the long term view of this product, hoping to do the license justice for years, while at the same time saying the minis they spent the most time and care on will only be sold during the kickstarter...or maybe in late 2015; they're not sure; they haven't thought about it; it's soooo far away. I really hope they put at least as much effort into the actual retail product. Should it not be top-notch, I'll always wonder how much they skimped on it due to the kickstarter and if they felt like the retail customers didn't deserve as nice a product. The way they are running this does not endear me to Prodos.
The retail product is often better than the KS product, from my experience. Sedition wars is a glaring example, but they seem to work out the kinks in KS as a beta tester you pay to be (kinda like with any GW product, so most here should be used to that). The retail version has the potential to be pretty good, depending on where they get the models manufactured. As good as the resin detail? Likely not. But horrible? even by comparison? Even less likely. About the only benefit you get from KS is earlier (sometimes...) and perhaps more for the same amount of money. (sometimes) If Fox is as involved in all of this as Prodos claims (which I don't doubt, look at GW and LoTR), then I am would bet that Fox would be less willing to allow subpar into the realm of general release retail than Prodos will. Judging by how this KS is being run retroactovely instead of proactively, I will bet retail is the best way to go. I would follow my own advice on that if it wasn't for wanting colonial marines asap.
Ehh, its following the standard curve really. And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went. Seems possible that known IPs get a huge surge at the beginning, as established fans flock to their favorites, and then peter out pretty hard in the middle.
I don't look at kicktraqs that often, but I think the curves tend to be a bit softer for project x or y, but this really reminds me of MA, so maybe its a licensed product thing. And of course, this isn't *quite* what some folks were expecting/hoping for, I know the resin material has killed it for me for instance. Mantic whipped out some pretty strong damage control to halt a backslide near the end, perhaps Prodos will be able to follow suit and get you guys to that alien queen you've been clamoring for
Will be interesting to see if it suffers a dip like Mars Attacks had. Will help isolate the cause, was it discontent (as there is some here too now) or was it due to MA's comic con pledge level shenanigans combined with the really long campaign throwing people off as the shininess wears off.
GrimDork wrote:Ehh, its following the standard curve really. And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went. Seems possible that known IPs get a huge surge at the beginning, as established fans flock to their favorites, and then peter out pretty hard in the middle.
Mars Attack was actually a bit of an anomaly at the end as its tail was markedly smaller than its head. In most big name kickstarters, the tail is at least as big as the initial rush and in some cases much bigger if the KS was run very well or was quite generous. Mars Attack has a few days of losing money that was finally partially corrected in time for the final 48 hour tail.
Medium of Death wrote:
I know not the most reliable, but surely the daily pledges/daily total are pretty hard for Kicktraq to feth up?
Not looking the healthiest, imho. They need to get those renders/actual kit pictures out.
I'd say added value at the 75 GBP level is what needs to get bumped. The large amount 20k stretch that only rewarded the biggest spenders being announced during the middle ho-hum section of a kickstarter and combined with other issues has IMO impacted this campaign significantly. The quickest and easiest way to address it (besides what they've already done via the second video.. obviously not the first as it had the opposite effect) would be to complete the stretch with a 5 GBP free add on at 75 GBP to go along with the 10/15 bonus at 125/215 pledges. I personally think that increasing rewards are better than all or nothing ones at high levels.
Bob- note the language you're talking about was referring to "box contents". The "box contents" of this are going to be produced in plastic, but it'll be a longer lead time and they'll be single piece.
The add-ons that have been unlocked are not going to be made in plastic from what I have seen, so those would still be resin later. As would later "add-ons".
The recovery today was actually quite nice for the pledge amount, although a signifcant increase in backers will be needed to raise another 100K and get to the Queen. I think that should be pretty easy with the final boost, though- here's hoping
Those stretches look quite nice. Freebies including: an extra 10 pounds of add-ons for everybody, an extra 10 pounds if we hit 2000 backers, and a free Praetorian! These all look to be applicable to all pledge levels, which is of course great
And every "item" but the Queen is actually unlocked at 250K. Looking forward to hearing more about the wargaming rulebook (next stretch) and seeing the 2 pledge levels they plan to add for wargamers.
GrimDork wrote: And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went.
MA had quite a bit more money at the similar mark in the funding period (or even just on the same day in), which is rather notable considering the great disparity in the licenses.
warboss wrote: The large amount 20k stretch that only rewarded the biggest spenders being announced during the middle ho-hum section of a kickstarter and combined with other issues has IMO impacted this campaign significantly.
I tend to agree; that certainly eroded my good will quite a bit even as I made the calculations confirming it was a good deal (so long as one wants to base boxes). Presentation is important, after all.
RiTides wrote: Looking forward to hearing more about the wargaming rulebook
Me too. Although after the vid, I am a bit concerned about whether this will work weal or woe.
That's what makes me crazy about this one Manchu, I know I was sweating bullets for MA when I heard this was gonna hit on MA's closing weekend... And it should have cause some rukus, I figured there were *way* more AvP fans. Maybe less of them are in the board/war gaming hobbies?
And from that logic... board/war gamers must simply LOVE cowboys and cthulus, can't wrap my head around that one either :p
GrimDork wrote: And it kind of reminds me of how Mars Attacks went.
MA had quite a but more money at the similar mark in the funding period (or even just on the same day in), which is rather notable considering the great disparity in the licenses.
It had about $100K more this many days in (around $400K) and ended up tapering and holding around $450K for quite a while.
I could see this campaign holding around $325K (200K Pounds, which it's only around 10K short of) for a while, before boosting up to unlock the Queen towards the end. It only needs to get to around $470K to unlock the Queen, and I think this should definitely be able to raise a half million, even in resin as more of a boutique item.
But it's not "boutique" to me as a wargamer as I'm used to these prices for high quality resin- or even much higher, as my recent FW order still indicates! With the next stretch after the Crusher being the wargaming rulebook, I think a different crowd may get involved to help the middle of the campaign (which will be shorter anyway, since this is a shorter campaign) before the boost that the end will most likely bring.
I would have killed my MA pledge it AvP had of been what I considered to be a good offering. As it was, I saw the comparative value and thought "there's no way this is going to come anywhere close to Mars Attacks" which just strengthened my Mars Attacks pledge.
That's why at the time, I said "What if Mantic had the license". Restic isn't a perfect material, but their new Deadzone stuff looks really good, and imo, a lot of restic Aliens, Marines and Predators from Mantic - with the Deadzone ruleset - would have been a much better alternative to either Mars Attacks or Produs-run resin AvP half boardgame half tabletop wargame.
I'm not a Mantic fanboi - I only have their Dreadball stuff currently, which admittedly I really like. But I really do think they could have done this license (which I much prefer to Mars Attacks) a lot better than Prodos seems to be doing.
Goodness, you can say that again. I am soooooooooooo glad that a resin company got the license. If it does well, maybe we'll see "real" polystyrene plastic models one day. But I have no desire to deal with restic ever again, or at least any more than I have to.
People pay insane prices for FW for the IP, but also because the detail is insane (when you get a good cast, which Prodos seem to be good at). These models in resin will be worth the price, to me... and obviously to 1200 or so others as well, so far
Manchu wrote: RiTide, I too am looking forward to see what the Queen brings as far as pledges.
One thing is certain, without early bird deals it's easier to let your pledge go on this one.
Or simply not pledge at all until you feel it's where you want. I would have committed initially had they offered something as simple as free shipping for early bird pledges of 75 GBP or more. Human psychology is a wonderful if fickle thing.
Goodness, you can say that again. I am soooooooooooo glad that a resin company got the license. If it does well, maybe we'll see "real" polystyrene plastic models one day. But I have no desire to deal with restic ever again, or at least any more than I have to.
People pay insane prices for FW for the IP, but also because the detail is insane (when you get a good cast, which Prodos seem to be good at). These models in resin will be worth the price, to me... and obviously to 1200 or so others as well, so far
Oh definitely, people prefer different things no doubt about it. I'm just stating my preferences. If you want to run numbers however, 2300 seemed to like MA (not restic) and 4300 liked Restic/Hard Plastic with Deadzone, admittedly a far weaker license than AvP. Liking the sculpts of these for example is very much subjective, but the casts are really good imo and have great detail that would work well for AvP, the new restic formula has a lot going for it. And if it results in 1/4 the price, I'll happily trade a 5% quality reduction for what would amount to getting 10x the minis, since I'd go in hard again ; p
Plus the whole Deadzone rule set and all the extra stuff you get with Mantic KS, optional acrylic counters, collectors rulebooks, etc. A new set of hard plastic terrain sprues, compatible with Deadzone ones but acid burned, perhaps with the secreted resin stuff from the alien infestation stuff... all cheaper and more modular than big resin sections.
Not trying to step on toes or insult Prodos - this is just friendly discussion, just making sure that we're clear on that. What Prodos is doing is viable, and the sculpts look good.
It's probably worth noting that, considering that the Praetorian and all the other Aliens we've seen thus far have been based on the organic look, it's pretty likely that the Warriors are going to be AVP:R Warriors rather than Aliens...
Personally I'm glad Prodos got the rights. Mantis might have been cheaper but their sculpt quality would have been much lower. Mantic does prices well but quality, not so much. (Probably how they keep prices down, cheaper sculpters + cheaper casting technology).
Isoulle wrote: Personally I'm glad Prodos got the rights. Mantis might have been cheaper but their sculpt quality would have been much lower. Mantic does prices well but quality, not so much. (Probably how they keep prices down, cheaper sculpters + cheaper casting technology).
The problem comes when making new designs for their own new IPs. When working from current designs - aliens, marines and predators all have well established designs, they'd easily be able to get as good sculpts for these imo.
I disagree about that (as what's the difference between trying to match an Aliens look versus concept art for something else?), but we're getting kind of far afield now! I also don't dispute that restic can reach a wider audience- cheaper models result in a bigger pool of people willing to chip in funds.
I'm just saying there's definitely a market for well cast resin, and I for one am glad to pay the difference in price for (what I see as) a substantial difference in quality between hand cast resin like Forgeworld, Kingdom Death's direct order models, and Prodos, versus something like Privateer Press / Mantic / etc casts done in restic. Definitely not wanting to pick on Mantic here- I backed Mars Attacks, after all! It's just a different material for a different purpose.
The price here still seems fine to me. It's the wait that's looming. And the style of handling this KS over the course of a year+ to wait it out is not so appealing. I would have no problem ordering these resin sculpt for these prices if they were available today and a few people had already gotten theirs.
That's a very fair point Manchu, although the wait is projected to be 6 months and not a year... although we all know how Kickstarters tend to slip a bit in delivery dates.
Warzone builds confidence they will be on time ... but this one, I'm sad to say, undermines it. As you said, perhaps staying small here will be a blessing.
Oh god restic... The promise of restic and the reality of it is akin to going home with a pretty girl and finding manly bits... Not what you'd expect and definitely a pain in the arse.
basement.dweller wrote: Oh god restic... The promise of restic and the reality of it is akin to going home with a pretty girl and finding manly bits... Not what you'd expect and definitely a pain in the arse.
Have you seen the new formula for Dreadball wave 3 and Deadzone? It looks (and by all accounts feels) great now, much better than the older stuff. But I'll let the subject rest, hard plastic or restic resulting in many more minis (and backers) is what I'd like, but no biggie. Like many I have a large backlog of projects already!
Having the image telling you what you get say "see the updates" is pretty bad form. I went to have a look to see what the value was at now but said screw it at that stage.
- free facehuggers (# based on pledge)
- free add on = squad of aliens/marines/a pred
- free berzerker model (ks exclusive)
- one free model (pred alien/ hound/ sentry guns)
- additional £10 of credit to buy whatever you want
2 more to be unlocked
-cloaked preds
-more credit.
basement.dweller wrote: Oh god restic... The promise of restic and the reality of it is akin to going home with a pretty girl and finding manly bits... Not what you'd expect and definitely a pain in the arse.
Have you seen the new formula for Dreadball wave 3 and Deadzone? It looks (and by all accounts feels) great now, much better than the older stuff. But I'll let the subject rest, hard plastic or restic resulting in many more minis (and backers) is what I'd like, but no biggie. Like many I have a large backlog of projects already!
I'm all for a fantastic plastic blend I'm not sure it's possible as they all have pvc in the mix which has some specific drawbacks that come with the advantages. The advantages as I see it befall the producers to a higher degree. Obviously it's cheaper for us, but it's much much cheaper for them. As far as formulas go, they are all different and kinda secret afaik and if one company gets it right it doesn't mean that restic is good. It just means that one company got it right. I got in on Deadzone before I had the misfortune of dealing with restic. I am hoping it will be a better experience than SW, but I won't know until I can handle the material.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pledge price comparison chart updated to show current value and fully unlocked value.
I am still not sure of how many of certain stretch goals you are eligible for if picking another pledge as an addon. For now I am assuming 1 each of the Berserker and 2000 backers pledge.
If all stretches are unlocked the base pledge has the hands down best value at 54% discount (as compared to addon prices).
"Get to the Chopper" is not that good and will end up the worst of the lot once more pledges unlock... You are better off getting multiple smaller pledges at that pricepoint.
- free facehuggers (# based on pledge)
- free add on = squad of aliens/marines/a pred
- free berzerker model (ks exclusive)
- one free model (pred alien/ hound/ sentry guns)
- additional £10 of credit to buy whatever you want
2 more to be unlocked
-cloaked preds
-more credit.
Hope that helps
That does a lot. Thanks. I thought that's where it was, but when I saw the additional £10 credit I got confused. Cheers.
Mars Attack was actually a bit of an anomaly at the end as its tail was markedly smaller than its head. In most big name kickstarters, the tail is at least as big as the initial rush and in some cases much bigger if the KS was run very well or was quite generous. Mars Attack has a few days of losing money that was finally partially corrected in time for the final 48 hour tail.
The MA losing money days coincided perfectly with the startup of the AVP KS...
So we'll probably get another amazing-looking KS start up a few days before the end of this one, and the same people who moved on from MA to this one will carry their money over to that..
Really hope we can get to £290k in any case, it would be criminal if this KS were to be released without a Queen miniature!
The queen should never have been a KS goal as really is part of the game.
Marines, preds and aliens (warriors/drones,Facehuggers, queen) are what the game is about so should they be KS goals IMHO 'no'. The goals really would have looked better with early bird free postage, additional add-ons or at later date free figure from new range for x months after release etc.
The goals want to be Elite aliens, or elder Predators, unique marines, civvies, convicts, resin scenery.
Having a basic rule set from the go and having vids to show possible game play would have helped. If you are going to have Board game/war game have pledge levels that allow the crowd to choose their variant or preferred game type choice.
Once they had confirmed the licence spoke to the community to see what they would have liked to see in a game an generate more fan input and spread the word, even if you don't use anything from whats said it gets people talking.
Have options to expand the rule books with more background fluff if they reach new stretch goals.
The whole thing just feels so uner wealming, and one is not trying to insult Prodos, and they have some nice sculpts but it just feels just a bit limp with the whole thing.
One reason why one has pulled out, may look to drop in last minute if picks up but well..... :{
adlard.matthew wrote: The queen should never have been a KS goal as really is part of the game.
Couldn't disagree more. Can you imagine what that would do to the base cost of the game? Or the size of the box? She can't even fit in most of the hallways!
People just really seem to be down about the whole thing, as is their right, but it's been such a great thing to even have this come out at all. I mean they're giving people the option of RESIN miniatures instead of mass released plastic as the only option. Who does that after securing the rights to a major IP like this? I really can't see griping about the details or the operations of the thing instead of focusing on the opportunity it affords.
I think the live chat last night was very good - asides from the JJ Abram Lens Flare(c) They definitely did a better job in selling the product and their dedication to the project, and now we're just over the £190k stretch. Here's hoping for a push onwards and upwards. £100k in 10 days? yeah - no worries on that. What I want to know is, when we get after £290, what's at £300k ? Dropship anyone?
Posting up the remaining stretch goals is a great idea, Power Loader looks like a USMC goal so presume it will be a weaponised version... Not sure on the Cloacked Predator though (spellcheck and proofing guys...)
190k £ (306k US$) reached and Alien Crusher unlocked.
Yonan wrote: That's why at the time, I said "What if Mantic had the license".
That's simple. No previews until you paid. Okay concepts but sculpts with distorted proportions, weird and repetitive poses and odd scaling. Materials changed without notice. Subpar and defective products shipped without quality control and a "we know its crap but it's already shipped" comment by the producer
Good thing Mantic never has enough money for a licence like that.
So, on the whole 'we don't have licence for actor's faces' debate - surely this opens up a market for other miniature producers to sculpt several dozen 'not' figures - in fact there is already a group of marines who could easily fight (and die) with a Predator in the jungle.
The £210k stretch goal is the add on for a hardback version of the Board and Wargame Rules. If unlocked this product will be a full colour and lush document of approximately 150 pages for £25.
Concept
We have now passed the £190k Stretch Goal and so can add-on the Alien Crusher:
And here is the update of the table showing all the pledge levels and what is so far unlocked. The Prodos baby hasn't yet arrived, but when it does each pledger of 'We're in the Pipe' and above will additionally get £10 more of add-ons.
And we announce all the further Stretch Goals: (I'm spoilering this since it was posted on the last page)
Spoiler:
Rulebook looks sweet! Looking forward to their adding 2 wargaming pledge levels once it unlocks
Also, there are two separate £10 add-on bonuses coming shortly- one, waiting on the creator's baby to be born and given to all backers as a "thank you" gift. The other, at 200K. So that's £20 of add-ons that everyone will be getting for free. Pretty sweet! Neither one is in the Free Add-Ons chart above yet, of course, since the criteria for neither has quite been yet (the baby hasn't arrived, and we haven't hit 200K yet).
Very much like that rulebook. Glad it's hardback. Hopefully it's printed well, anybody have experience with the Warzone rulebook in terms of quality. Retailing the book at 25 quid isn't a bad move at all.
If i've said it once, somebody else has said it and then I've said it again... RENDERS! RENDERS! RENDERS! Seriously Prodos, have a word with Fox and say that sneak peeking stuff is actually helping the campaign. If the put a disclaimer saying "designs subject to change pending final approval" or something I think people would like that better than not being able to see anything!
Agreed, although some of you guys didn't seem as impressed by the Praetorian render sneak peak as I was . It definitely indicates to me that the Warriors will not have smooth heads, which is all that really bothered me about the infants/stalkers. I'll be getting 20-30 warriors, depending on what the price of the Queen ends up being (that is, if we get there by the end, of course!).
Medium of Death wrote: Very much like that rulebook. Glad it's hardback. Hopefully it's printed well, anybody have experience with the Warzone rulebook in terms of quality. Retailing the book at 25 quid isn't a bad move at all.
If i've said it once, somebody else has said it and then I've said it again... RENDERS! RENDERS! RENDERS! Seriously Prodos, have a word with Fox and say that sneak peeking stuff is actually helping the campaign. If the put a disclaimer saying "designs subject to change pending final approval" or something I think people would like that better than not being able to see anything!
The Warzone rulebook, at the very least, is up amongst the best quality books I own. Easily stands with my Infinity and MERCS books in terms of printing quality as well as internal art (especially the new art assets which they used instead of just resting on the laurels of Warzone's awesome art pedigree). If the AvP book is anything like the Warzone book, it will be a good purchase.
Alright, back to the vault of gaming stuff to console myself about not being able to get in to this one. Building a few more Warzone minis should help the pain.
I'm going to put my revised pledge allocation here now that all the stretches are shown. It could change if they add new wargaming pledge levels, but at least I'll have a starting point . Spoilered since it's mostly for me to keep track:
Spoiler:
Edit: Updated 11/20 with Queen cost
This is for 2 100-pound pledge levels just for add-ons, made separately (my friend is doing one for me) with 40 pounds extra, for a total of 250 pounds of credit.
With 25 pounds left to spend currently. But, I'm hoping a new wargaming pledge level will be added with a slightly better value, and I'll be able to snag a rulebook and 2 more PredAliens
Just to update guys- the latest stretch only applies to "Real Aliens", but it seems Prodos is making the "baby stretch" apply to everybody (i.e. 75 pounds and up). That would give every level an extra 10 pounds of add-ons, which would be a very nice gesture
MoD- I think it's just discussion of pledge levels, as well as Prodos putting out the new stretch goal chart (which, as mentioned, removed the "Payback time or higher" text below the baby stretch, and made this latest only for "Real Aliens" and up).
2 new wargaming pledge levels are supposed to be added when the rulebook unlocks. I really hope one of them is in the 155 - 175 range, and includes the hardback wargaming rulebook instead of the board game, as then it would benefit from this stretch, too
They seriously keep screwing up by making these adjustments of higher pledge levels more valuable into stretch goals.
What happened to stuff like mission markers fro preds and marines? Ugh. This damn KS is all over the place. Trying to cater to everyone, is alientating more than it is drawing in.
Is it a boardgame? Sure! Here have a wargame rulebook to help you out.
Is it a wargame? Sure! here are some cards for basic level play that is clearly for scrubs.
Is it a waffle iron? Sure! we even include ginsu knives! ..... please don't drop your pledge.....
AgeOfEgos wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Predator crew--there's some great in there--but the proportions seems a bit strange--can't put my exact finger on it.
Maybe because they remind you of the village people? Maybe that is just me...
Is there any guarantee that the baby will be born before the end of this KS?
The Warzone rulebook, at the very least, is up amongst the best quality books I own. Easily stands with my Infinity and MERCS books in terms of printing quality as well as internal art (especially the new art assets which they used instead of just resting on the laurels of Warzone's awesome art pedigree). If the AvP book is anything like the Warzone book, it will be a good purchase.
That's high praise indeed, the latest Infinity rule books are absolutely awesome so if it's up at that level we have nothing whatsoever to worry about.
AgeOfEgos wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Predator crew--there's some great in there--but the proportions seems a bit strange--can't put my exact finger on it.
Just to confirm, that was just a post Forlorn made just to give us a 'Wowwww!' moment followed immediately by an 'uurgggghhhh..' as we realise the cast from the film aren't in this KS
RiTides wrote: Just to update guys- the latest stretch only applies to "Real Aliens", but it seems Prodos is making the "baby stretch" apply to everybody (i.e. 75 pounds and up). That would give every level an extra 10 pounds of add-ons, which would be a very nice gesture
Did they actually explicitly say that or is that an inference from the lack of the previous minimum stretch level for 10 GBP? Since they seem ok with telling people to look at previous updates for details I don't think they'd be opposed to using the same tactic. I don't agree though as I think personally it's a bad idea to tell customers to search for reasons to give you money instead of just telling them clearly upfront.
There's currently a discrepancy- earlier, they were saying the "baby stretch" only applied to "Payback Time" and higher. They removed that, and typed that it applied to "In The Pipe" and higher, but didn't update the freebie chart (and in fact posted a chart showing it only for "Payback Time" and higher). I'm hoping they'll clarify that soon. Obviously, when the baby is born they will likely make an update announcing it, but I've emailed them about the discrepancy to see if they can clarify sooner.
Theres just too much hang time between funding and release to really get behind it when you know the stuff is coming out later. Not to mention the greed inlaced in the project, I was supposed to be swearing off KS projects this year, and between this one and the cowboy stuff, I've thrown down enough cash for the year.
As of now, a standard game is fine for me to get going and really enjoy this on the scale it deserves. Hope it scales up with the 1/48 vehicle, but if not it will be fine with just -playing out of the box and getting up to tabletop standard for the rest of the release.
Hate to say it but the way in which this is evolving is just getting to be looking like a hot mess. Yes, you get all sorts of lickies and chewies, but they are just giving the impression of trying to squeeze every ounce of cash out of you like its coming out next week or so.
Today has actually been a really good day, currently over 198K... I'd guess it will have broken through tomorrow morning:
If the "baby stretch" applies to all pledge levels, and they add a few good wargaming pledge levels when the rulebook unlocks, the value will be just fine imo.
Another freebie added but only to certain levels and not the one that I'd be interested in pledging. I'm not sure why they're intent on making it so hard to keep track of who is getting what with upcoming goals. Simply giving everyone something but having it commensurate with their pledge level seems to me like a much better idea (so 5 GBP with in the pipe, 10 with paypack, 15 with it bleeds). YMMV.
Is it a boardgame? Sure! Here have a wargame rulebook to help you out.
Is it a wargame? Sure! here are some cards for basic level play that is clearly for scrubs.
Is it a waffle iron? Sure! we even include ginsu knives! ..... please don't drop your pledge.....
Cute ... and some what apt, as been watching the other fan boards for Aliens and such and the biggest thing apart from what project has been what is this? As a lot of fans of AVP do not game and so you have been seeing comments like so its monopoly or computer game orsuch and why the price.
Prodos really seem to have missed the main crowd with this KS and would have been better working out what they are upto as in Board game, war game, and then doing videos separating them.
A vid for the board game and what it is, how it plays, same for the war game. From a beginners starting point it would help those who are not gamers to understand what's going on and develop more fan based support by chatting to the fan sites and forums prior to the KS release would have one far more for them.
Disagree. This way they're playing to their strengths and focusing on that share of the market that they can actually cater to best.
Besides, have you ever tried to sell *any* high-quality models or such to a BG crowd? Fethers consider €75 spent on an entire system expensive - you just can't do the really fun stuff when those guys have to be your main focus.
Exactly, bringing in us wargamers is a smart move for Prodos and what they've done before. They're having open play of the game this weekend (and did so yesterday) and some UK folks are going to go and report back everything (I'm hoping even record).
Bringing in the war gamers is a smart move, but not at the exclusion of the board gamers, especially when even the base product for this KS is a deluxe version of an upcoming board game.
Lack of any real detail about how the boxed board game is going to play at this stage is bad. Lack of real detail about the components other than the figures is bad.
A proper retail version has a lot of potential. Think of how many copies of Heroscape and similar mass release boardgames with miniatures have distributed and sold.
I get the impression the board game, even though it is the basis for the KS, was and is really nothing but an afterthought. I suspect if it wasn't included in a licensing agreement it would not be happening.
It seems, based on what we've been shown so far, that Prodos is stuck within their safety bubble of great figures and using the crutch of the Warzone rules rather than really bringing creative effort into making the board game great. And again, a great retail version has the potential to outsell the war game and the resin figures.
Just seems like lost opportunity.
Hopefully I'm wrong. It would be nice if Prodos would set me straight.
If this license was handled by someone who understood its diverse fanbase, as well as the gaming market as a whole, and not just one small aspect of that market, this KS would have easily joined the ranks of other million dollar plus games.
As it is now, I feel like the KS is run by a bunch of gamers who only understand the market for the games they play.
On a side note, am I the only one who doesn't like a large portion of the actual miniatures shown? I agree the detail on them is awesome, but some of them seem to have a "chiseled" look where things should be more rounded and some of the poses look awkward to me.
I have a hard time following the Ks page, it's very disorganized compared to most of the previous KS pages I've backed. I have a very hard time understanding what the various pledges translate to in regard to product. Maybe I'm the only one but I am very confused as to what is actually being offered, but I can't help but think that page being a jumble might be keeping others from backing.
Based on the pics I really like the minis but it's not an easy page to figure out which doesn't encourage me to pledge. The timing is also horrible, so late in the year means I have no budget. It's a shame as the minis do look great.
Thanks for that Kroot, as the conversion does make it hard to see where this is really at. I just am happy to be over 200K, because as one KS comment put it "And now the 90k climb to greatness begins."
Also, because now the next stretch is that beautiful wargaming rulebook, which should result in the addition of 2 new wargaming pledge levels. Woot!
Does anybody know at what point pledge manager finals would need to be submitted by?
I'm wondering if it's possible to toss in a minimum pledge then wait until after Christmas to adjust my pledge as I'd have a much better grasp on what my post holidays budget will be.
paulson games wrote: I have a hard time following the Ks page, it's very disorganized compared to most of the previous KS pages I've backed. I have a very hard time understanding what the various pledges translate to in regard to product. Maybe I'm the only one but I am very confused as to what is actually being offered, but I can't help but think that page being a jumble might be keeping others from backing.
Based on the pics I really like the minis but it's not an easy page to figure out which doesn't encourage me to pledge. The timing is also horrible, so late in the year means I have no budget. It's a shame as the minis do look great.
Oh believe you me, I have the cash to throw at it, the KS page really just put it over the end for me. Your not the only one. Thats why I stuck with 75, and really give a damn if anything else comes with it.
apperently 75 pounds is chicken feed, so not worth the bother that the higher pledges are supposed to grease out of the goose.
Minis might be great, walk around on the table on thier own, and do flips, that doesn't do well when your jamming them like that, AND trying to cater to everyone but who your trying to sell a game to.
Pledges are broken, disorganized, and smack of greedy git switcharoo.
Kickstartersuccess-itis is going to bite this one hard.
"Oh sorry fellows, we're going to be 6 more months late..." or some sort of gak. Which sucks, because I'd drop hard cash on this one in a hot second if I could just get the game without a gak load of gimmick.
They were on-time with Warzone, weren't they? And this is for less models. They've shown that they can cast high quality resin models in a timely fashion, so I don't know where that speculation is coming from.
CptJake wrote: Bringing in the war gamers is a smart move, but not at the exclusion of the board gamers, especially when even the base product for this KS is a deluxe version of an upcoming board game.
Lack of any real detail about how the boxed board game is going to play at this stage is bad. Lack of real detail about the components other than the figures is bad.
A proper retail version has a lot of potential. Think of how many copies of Heroscape and similar mass release boardgames with miniatures have distributed and sold.
I get the impression the board game, even though it is the basis for the KS, was and is really nothing but an afterthought. I suspect if it wasn't included in a licensing agreement it would not be happening.
It seems, based on what we've been shown so far, that Prodos is stuck within their safety bubble of great figures and using the crutch of the Warzone rules rather than really bringing creative effort into making the board game great. And again, a great retail version has the potential to outsell the war game and the resin figures.
Just seems like lost opportunity.
Hopefully I'm wrong. It would be nice if Prodos would set me straight.
Agreed. They are marketing a starter set to a wargame (akin to what many GW consumers are used to the for nearly the past 2 decades) as a board game. And while starter sets may techinically be boardgames, and this one especially since it does come with a playing surface, they are so out of touch with the boardgaming side they were actually marketing this towards to begin with, that this project has lost most sense of identity.
Look at it this way. We all know you can use termies and stealers in 40k. But spacehulk the board game had its own solid set of unique rules beyond 40k.
Prodos has allowed the assumption of similarity here amongst boardgamers, (who let's face it, outnumber wargamers by a very wide margin. One has only to look boardgame geeks user numbers to validate that assertion) that the same was likely true in the case of AVP as well.
But it turns out it isn't, and quite a few people who would have stayed on board are now alienated. No pun intended.
I tried to point this out before, but I was accused of hudson level histrionics. Too bad for Prodos that they didn't know what the hell they were marketing or how the hell to.market it prior to the project campaign.
Because a lot of people actually feel foolish for keeping their funds in this, present company included. The only reason iam staying is for the marine models. I wish I could be staying for the other awesome models, but looking at their game I don't see any reason for that, for the pragmatic use of gaming anyways.
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paulson games wrote: I have a hard time following the Ks page, it's very disorganized compared to most of the previous KS pages I've backed. I have a very hard time understanding what the various pledges translate to in regard to product. Maybe I'm the only one but I am very confused as to what is actually being offered, but I can't help but think that page being a jumble might be keeping others from backing.
Based on the pics I really like the minis but it's not an easy page to figure out which doesn't encourage me to pledge. The timing is also horrible, so late in the year means I have no budget. It's a shame as the minis do look great.
You're not the only one, and I have been following this fairly closely since the 2nd day. I think I have it 80% right, but that's not good enough.
Well Hellfury, you're only in for marines, but I'm only in for Aliens- someday we need to meet at a Con and can make an awesome display setup, if nothing else
paulson games wrote: I have a hard time following the Ks page, it's very disorganized compared to most of the previous KS pages I've backed. I have a very hard time understanding what the various pledges translate to in regard to product. Maybe I'm the only one but I am very confused as to what is actually being offered, but I can't help but think that page being a jumble might be keeping others from backing.
Based on the pics I really like the minis but it's not an easy page to figure out which doesn't encourage me to pledge. The timing is also horrible, so late in the year means I have no budget. It's a shame as the minis do look great.
Oh believe you me, I have the cash to throw at it, the KS page really just put it over the end for me. Your not the only one. Thats why I stuck with 75, and really give a damn if anything else comes with it.
apperently 75 pounds is chicken feed, so not worth the bother that the higher pledges are supposed to grease out of the goose.
Minis might be great, walk around on the table on thier own, and do flips, that doesn't do well when your jamming them like that, AND trying to cater to everyone but who your trying to sell a game to.
Pledges are broken, disorganized, and smack of greedy git switcharoo.
Kickstartersuccess-itis is going to bite this one hard.
"Oh sorry fellows, we're going to be 6 more months late..." or some sort of gak. Which sucks, because I'd drop hard cash on this one in a hot second if I could just get the game without a gak load of gimmick.
Amen, grot 6. I withdrew almost $500 because they couldn't get their gak straight and was set to dump another $500 if theycould prove that they knew what they were doing.
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RiTides wrote: They were on-time with Warzone, weren't they? And this is for less models. They've shown that they can cast high quality resin models in a timely fashion, so I don't know where that speculation is coming from.
There are still many people without their pledges. But in Prodos defense, Prodos are making regular shipments so its only a matter of time. But the entire get up is still not fulfilled and if you look.at the ks page, you can see that much of their products are still in production, even at tberendering level. But Prodos seem to be good at communicating where they are so this is good.
As for meeting up against your aliens, I'm afraid it won't be very likely,.sadly. I am skeptical of this being a good wargame on a thematic level. Spent many a night debating how aliens would actually do against organized military if the xeno presence was actually known and am convinced that the only way the xenos could stand a chance was if they developed weapons. otherwise, the real militaryresponse would be to cut the loss, accept collateral damage, and.nuke anything they touch or have ever touched.
This is why as much asi would love an aliens wargame, why I think the idea behind it is ultimately doomed.
The idea surrdounding this works better at a smallskirmish level.Hence ideal for boardame or slightly biggerike necromunda.
I'm not too upset by this as I figure they'll be adding a wargaming pledge level that will qualify for it soon. But, releasing a little information wouldn't kill them (I sent them an email to get this bit clarified in the comments finally)
What would have been clever to do would have been to offer the board game version as well during the KS. By board game I mean the single piece plastics.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What is there to be confused about with regard to the pledge level? You pick a level and depending on that level you get X amount of money to spend on addons. At the aliens aren't from mars level you get the game. 7 free huggers. 105 to spend on addons. A free berserker. And we're up to 4 free addons when the baby arrives. So you pull 500 because you're confused? The chart is pretty clear on what each level does and does not get.
The frustrating part for me, Forlorn, is that they make it impossible to plan a pledge- the 200K goal was only revealed to be "Real Aliens" and above when we hit it. I am hoping, but can't tell, if the "Free Praetorian" goal is for everyone. We don't know how much the Queen will cost. And they won't tell us what the wargaming pledge levels will be. It's hard to give them my money but I'm going to try anyway
Finally there is no ambiguity to how many addons you get of which.
2 pledges = twice the addons of everything. I have just updated that in the comparison chart after the straight response from Prodos.
As for the locked ones - I will continues to update as more i revealed. 2 Accounts for pledging is no longer a thing.
Creator Prodos Games Ltd less than a minute ago
All add ons are per pledge, so if you have pledged at 'We're in the Pipe' level or higher you get 1 of each free add-on included. Except free Facehuggers which are per box.
So 2x 'We're in the Pipe' = 2x of each free add-on
So here it is... "Real Aliens" cost £165 (inc shipping), value if everything unlocks £304
1x "five by five" + 1x "looking good" cost £185 (inc shipping) and the value if everything unlocks £365
I think the Berserker is still just a free gift per backer, though, basement. As is the bonus figure if we hit 2000 backers. I've got 2 separate pledges at the moment now just to be safe... clarity isn't their strong suit
You beat me to it- we have answers! Not only that, but the "Free Praetorian" goal is for everyone at £75 and up!
Just copying the actual answers from the comments section here:
Question 1. Is the FREE PRAETORIAN goal for every pledge of "five by five" and above?
Prodos' Answer: We are in the pipe and up
-------------------------------------
Question 2. How much will the Queen cost?
Prodos' Answer: £35
I still dunno what I want for my freebie stuff. I'm just gonna wait till the end to plan it out. But I do know I'm gonna stick with just aliens things, since those are the models I've always wanted the most. Everything else still looks great though. I'm at Payback time right now, but I might have to drop it down to the basic 75 level or I'll end up having to buy chia pets for everyone this xmas.
...This has just become completely in-friggin-possible to optimize a pledge to. Worst part is, this thing ends when I am both decidedly busy and stupidly drunk. This is gonna be fun to plan out...
For the freebies I chose the 15.00 Boxsets as my addon, for example I picked the beasts and Aliens box sets saving me 30.00 of my 105.00 for other items.
One thing I wish would be an idea of what the models will be in the game. Like do I need a bunch of face huggers or do I only need a few? Inquiring minds want to know.
Hopefully we'll get some clarity on that after their gaming demos on Saturday Forlorn, but I totally agree! I'm just going to load up on warriors, and add in a few predaliens and praetorians via the freebies (assuming we hit the later goal!), and then use the rest of the credit to get the big crusher and queen models
So apparently, there is no need to include CMoN if you do want their service of shipping to North America.and are worried about Prodos charging more to ship your rewards to you directly from GB.
Brett P Winkelmans about 1 hour ago
@Prodos
Will the direct shipping to NA require further money beyond the 10GBP?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 1 hour ago
@Brett, no
Very good to know if you are the type of consumer who would rather do without or spend more money to ship it to you than to give David Doust a damn red cent. One which I will be utulizing if I decide to stick around this KS at the end.
Hellfury wrote: So apparently, there is no need to include CMoN if you do want their service of shipping to North America.and are worried about Prodos charging more to ship your rewards to you directly from GB.
Brett P Winkelmans about 1 hour ago
@Prodos
Will the direct shipping to NA require further money beyond the 10GBP?
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 1 hour ago
@Brett, no
Very good to know if you are the type of consumer who would rather do without or spend more money to ship it to you than to give David Doust a damn red cent. One which I will be utulizing if I decide to stick around this KS at the end.
You take that stand!
I for one am eagerly awaiting what looks to be a great game in Rivet Wars.
Still undecided how deep to go in for AvP. I'm thinking the $200 level seems okay. Can't decide though. I probably need to figure out what I actually "want".
do I need a bunch of face huggers or do I only need a few?
Funny; of all the possible questions to ask here, this is one even I'd say is kinda obvious
Well played, sir. Well played
... having CMON do it ... will be a bit safer
...And I take it you're not really familiar with how smoothly (ahem) their shipping adventures generally are? Good God I'm glad for not having to have anything to do with those jokers this time 'round...
do I need a bunch of face huggers or do I only need a few?
Funny; of all the possible questions to ask here, this is one even I'd say is kinda obvious
Well played, sir. Well played
... having CMON do it ... will be a bit safer
...And I take it you're not really familiar with how smoothly (ahem) their shipping adventures generally are? Good God I'm glad for not having to have anything to do with those jokers this time 'round...
do I need a bunch of face huggers or do I only need a few?
Funny; of all the possible questions to ask here, this is one even I'd say is kinda obvious
Well played, sir. Well played
... having CMON do it ... will be a bit safer
...And I take it you're not really familiar with how smoothly (ahem) their shipping adventures generally are? Good God I'm glad for not having to have anything to do with those jokers this time 'round...
Can't say I've ever had any problems.
...Among the lucky few. Too bad Mr. Doust still owes me a few hundred bucks for items still not delivered over a decade later.
He even went so far as to tell me to remove posting abroad various forums, back when The Warp forums was associated to new wave, one part of my shipment was received.
I refused, and it makes me wonder if that was the reason why I didn't receive the rest of my shipment.
Glad people have excellent dealing with Doust. But that spectre of the past still looms and only a fool ignores the precedence set in the past that likely will rear its head again in the future. He is not a better business man, proof of which can be seen in how he interacts with the public (zombicide ks, etc.) he is just a better bs artist.
One which for many many people still, would prefer to avoid doing business with if possible.
Just ask Kort Jensen, consumer fraud attorney in Helena, MT about this. Why is he relevant? Helena happens to be the sister city of alpharetta georgia where Doust did business in, for purposes of consumer fraud. He has more than a few cases still open last I heard.
Didn't we have all of the CMON discussion in the first dozen pages of this thread?
Anyway, some lovely new pictures that I don't think anyone has posted yet? Good to see that they have obviously got some skilled painters doing their stuff, that almost looks like an NMM sheen on the head of the alien!
The sculpt is just not that good for the Drone. It's too hunched and not really tall, and those shoulders oh god those shoulders are so bad. The exaggeration of the tail is pretty poor too, while the head lacks Giger's phallec look. Also, typical monster feet. Limbs are lacking in the biomechanical feel too, and just seem too smooth. Chest is 'okay', but seems too small. Overall, a pretty poor sculpt. Real shame when compared to those colonial marines, which look pretty good. Also, £15 for five of those? Yikes. Would have loved to have seen something like this;
These all look good. They look like good models and look like the movies. If it has a good game associated with it and no other KS game looks better then I might get some.
Did the Aliens just stroll around a lot?
I think the Alien minis reflect my biggest reason for not being interested in this game, I just don't see a TTG capturing the feeling of the movies. Maybe a co-op game.
Having a bunch of bugs milling around on the board looking like they are going to pick up some smokes just isn't very evocative.
The big problem is, those pictures are not new. We've seen them linked to before. More than halfway through the fricking campaign and they 'officially' show pictures we've already seen.
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, how about showing us the sprues from the hour long video in nice hi res shots? Or new pics of new renders and figures? Or the other game components?
RiTides wrote: Quick, someone doctor up the second drone image to be "haters gonna hate"
Really? At fifteen pounds for five, the minis leave a lot to be desired. Weren't you the one saying the boutique resin prices were reasonable because the quality was there? This is the equivalent of giving a Jurassic Park game a brontosaurus* sculpt and charging premium for it.
*Brontosaurus being a false dinosaur that isn't in the popular first book. But it's close enough, right? A sauropod's a sauropod.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Weren't you the one saying the boutique resin prices were reasonable because the quality was there?
The quality is there, quite clearly in fact. Those may not be the Aliens you're looking for, but they're very good models from a technical point of view.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Weren't you the one saying the boutique resin prices were reasonable because the quality was there?
The quality is there, quite clearly in fact. Those may not be the Aliens you're looking for, but they're very good models from a technical point of view.
Exactly...
And Bob, I'm not pledging for any drones. I'm going all add-ons, and thus all Alien Warriors. I want non-smooth heads, and those are also 5 for 15 pounds. And yes, I think that's a reasonble price for official Aliens models that are 37mm tall (they gave the measurement during the Google Chat).
CptJake wrote: The big problem is, those pictures are not new. We've seen them linked to before. More than halfway through the fricking campaign and they 'officially' show pictures we've already seen.
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, how about showing us the sprues from the hour long video in nice hi res shots? Or new pics of new renders and figures? Or the other game components?
Here are the rest that have been floating around that Prodos simply can't be bothered to post themselves on the KS that have been posted since the dawn of the KS.
Heaven forbid they be accused of promoting their game themselves.
I'm fething winded from posting all of those pics. Can I haz £200k+ too since I've done more work than them?
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Depends if you hate the organic look enough to swear off of any other design altogether...
But, what if the organic style looks like gak to someone? I mean, it's hard to like something you find mediocre in every way possible, good.
Also, the poses are also lacking. None of them display any form of movement or speed, they all are just hunched over with their tail dangling over their heads, like they are on a casual afternoon stroll.
I think I'm gonna pretend there is no game attached to this whatsoever. I could care less about either their wargame or boardgame at this point. None of it sounds savory.
I only wish there was a reasonable pledge level comparable to In the pipe that I could pledge for. Which would be saving them money since all they have to give me is models and not all the printed material and packing costs for a boardgame.
Looking good there boss pledge level is.... not looking so good. in fact,for saving them a lot of time and money, its a pretty gak pledgelevel. I just want to give them $120 with the same stretch rewards as in the pipe. Then I'll shut the hell up about their abysmal managerial and marketing skills. Its not going to happen, because apparently I am going to get rules with my models, wether I like it or not godammit.
"Looking good there boss" will be a lot more attractive with a free Praetorian if/when we get there! I'm in for that level, but may move up a bit depending on the 2 wargaming pledge levels they add (those will probably include a rulebook, but if it's Infinity-quality like Ronin said the Warzone book was earlier in the thread, then I may want it anyway just for the art / fiction / etc).
Oh yeah, if there's an Infinity quality rulebook in there I'll reconsider spending zero dollars on it. As long as its full to the gills with fancy art and fluff. I'd need a lot of screenshots though, and they probably wouldn't be ready in time.
Yeah, but every level gets it, so... I'm still not seeing what looks so good about "looking good there, boss". Got a better argiment that is mathematically sound? Looking good doesn't even offer the same rewards as payback time, so I see no point in spending the extra dough to get the same discount as the dough being spent.
I just want to spend the same amount as in the pipe, and not bother with the rules or game bits and get the same reward. I get models I want, they spend much less on production costs for what I receive.
Uhuh. It wouldn't be too much to ask to supply the models from the box, plus one or two add-ons instead of the card components, at the same price as the box proper. At least that.
I'm not entirely sure what I should do with the card component contents of a second game box (although the models alone would make it more than worth it to me).
Well, they added "Looking good there, boss!" at my request, and it is basically a way to get just models and stretch goals, without the box.
I can see why they don't want to sell the box contents "unboxed" for the same price... They're discounted in the box for a reason! I knew I wouldn't get quite as good of a deal at that level when I asked for them to add it, but it's still nice to have a level that lets me just get add-ons, imo. But it's pretty obvious why they want to push the box, it's the easiest to fulfill as they're all the same. You pay more for add-ons because you get to pick and choose.
But they'll be adding 2 more pledge levels when the rulebook unlocks, who knows, maybe one of those will be to your liking. That's probably unlikely given your posts here thus far, but sometimes lightning strikes
Riddle me this:
How can you see them not wanting to sell the models from the box, sans the printed materials for the same price?
What reason are they discounted in the box?
I pick and choose? I want their models. it wor,s.out exactly.the same, except they save money packing a large box and including expensive printed items. I know those boxes don't come cheap. In fact, those boxes are expensive to produce.
Your argument fails in the face of logic, and worse, you're validating illogical choices by Prodos in your zeal. I could care less who is responsible for what pledge level.
The bottom line is what they offer doesn't make sense. And they are attempting to make some pledges better deals to match through stretch goals which is also a crying shame. There should be variety offered in those goals, not "oops! our maths from the guy who balanced an unamed game that is huge and everyone knows about is flawed, here, have an awesome stretch goal since we lack the creative faculties for basic sense of value that the majority of consumers have. Did we mention that wehave a maths genius?"
They can more easily recitfy this with new pledge levels. Pledge levels that make sense. Pledge levels that don't attempt to insult my intelligence and basic maths I learned in first grade.
Because multiple component boxes should in theory enjoy economics of scale and ease of planning, thus lowering the cost? It's easier and cheaper to produce a set amount of components for a set amount of boxes than it is to run a list of individual components on demand.
And it's not unheard of for a company to offer a discount on a bundle of items compared to the price of individual components. Ever bought a six pack of beer?
Because multiple component boxes should in theory enjoy economics of scale and ease of planning, thus lowering the cost? It's easier and cheaper to produce a set amount of components for a set amount of boxes than it is to run a list of individual components on demand.
And it's not unheard of for a company to offer a discount on a bundle of items compared to the price of individual components. Ever bought a six pack of beer?
Exactly. Saying something like "it makes sense for them to discount the main box game" is an absolute no-brainer.
I am willing to pay a slightly higher price to pick and choose the models I want, just like I would do for any product. It's this way for every boxed game with components... basically anywhere. It's obvious! Add up the model components for a board game, and try to buy them separately, and they will cost more.
You know, IF these were plastic minis made in China, and the factory also boxed/packed the rest of the components and sealed the game boxes you guys would have a point. It would cost more to do an extra run of the figures alone outside of what was budgeted for the game run, or worse Prodos opening games to parse out figures as needed takes time and leaves them with wasted components and boxes.
As it is in reality though, these cast resin figures, done in house by Prodos, cost the same to make for that particular mold wether they put them in a game box or not. They wear out the molds at the same rate, take the same amount of resin and labor. As such, selling the figures in the same quantity, in a game box or not, should not really add to their price. It isn't as if the game boxes themselves are not going to have the figures cast to order and then hand packed by Prodos along with the printed material since they are just for this KS and Prodos is very unlikely to cast a ton of extras not sold during this KS, which would take resources to make and to warehouse.
True that manufacturing the models won't take any more time or money, but packaging, sorting and distributing a thousand separate individual orders on top of what they had planned for the kickstarter will have an economic effect.
I see where you are coming from, but there is an economy of simply shipping out a pre packed box with a set of add ons as opposed to having someone individually sort and pack a custom order.
That said, your idea makes sense. Just seems they are pushing the boxed set (probably at the insistence of Fox Studios) and want to reward the backers that make the fulfillment phase easier.
Todosi wrote: True that manufacturing the models won't take any more time or money, but packaging, sorting and distributing a thousand separate individual orders on top of what they had planned for the kickstarter will have an economic effect.
.
Don't they have to do that anyway due to all the "you get free credit towards add-ons!" stretch goals?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Weren't you the one saying the boutique resin prices were reasonable because the quality was there?
The quality is there, quite clearly in fact. Those may not be the Aliens you're looking for, but they're very good models from a technical point of view.
Obviously the quality is not "there" if people find that the minis don't resemble their design art--you know, the aliens from the movie. The fact that this is a license means that accuracy to the source material is just as important as 'technically correct' sculpt quality. Seriously, they could sculpt the most skillful, technically brilliant monster from John Carpenter's Dark Star that mankind has ever seen, but it would still suck because that's not what the Aliens fans want.
Part of charging boutique prices is giving the customers what they want and not giving them ...that other thing from the related property that looks close enough to satisfy most half-interested people yet the real fans--the kind willing to pay insane prices--will instantly know is the wrong thing.
One kind of gets the impression with this Ks that we are coming from the angle of Fans and understand what this project really represents and could go and the Prodos group looks at it as 'Ok our next project is AvP and so we will just do this, this and this for this project.' Then so whats the next licence.?
Theres no real passion behind this that come across.
adlard.matthew wrote: One kind of gets the impression with this Ks that we are coming from the angle of Fans and understand what this project really represents ...
The 'fans' of nothing but the figures and MOAR STUFF tend to completely drown out or ridicule anyone asking about the rules or other issues, or Lord Forbid have issues with the figures, in the comments section. I know that happens in many KS projects as a few hard core folks assume control of the comments section. Yet coupled with lack of clarity (which is beginning to look like evasiveness) from Prodos it is like sand in my underwear on this one.
Prodos does not use the FAQ or the Updates to put out new/updated info very efficiently in my opinion and is really spotty in answering questions in the comments, and I find that frustrating. Fr example, posting a video to a 52 minute QA is nice for folks with time to watch a 52 minute video. Distilling the key points made and taking GOOD pictures of stuff shown in that video and posting it as an update makes the info much more accessible to backers and potential backers.
A walk through of a couple turns of the boardgame now that we are 2/3 of the way done would be nice. Posting a draft of the rules would be better. Highlighting some of the components and other stuff like the resin corridors and clearly stating plans for expanding them would be good. There are so many things they could be putting out. The 'well, they're a small company' stopped being a decent excuse for me.
Prodos confirmed they are working on the new pledge levels for wargamers...
Q: How are addons used during the board game scenerios? Do we need an Alien Crusher? A: Instead of "plug and play", you can construct your own army roster, which might include an alien crusher, even for basic board game scenario.
Q: Are maps included in the game? A: Some samples will be included, but you can make your own, flow chart how to make it will be included in the rules.
Q: Any word on the AvP arcade characters? A: Hoping to get approval for Lieutenant Linn Kurosawa and Major Dutch Schaefer
Q: In the rules are your USCM squads gonna have a set size? Theoretically it should be 4men for a squad but it is your game A: Squad up to 10 man, + one Character (Sgt, or Lt, or Commander)
Q: The facehuggers can make new aliens from other bodies? A: Yes
Q: Can you give us the price points on the *possible* upcoming SG's...such as the Youngbloods, Powerloader, Cloaked Predator ( And if that will be included either as a freebie or if they are in a set of 3) A: 3x young blood £25, Power loader £15, Cloaked Predator is a £10 piece
Q: I understand you don't want give away storyline specifics, I would prefer to keep the spoilers to a minimum myself. But if the boardgame is just a wargame played on tiles (building factions based on points and not by set campaign play (you will need 5 Alien Warriors, 10 Alien Infants, and 1 Alien Crusher) then I would like to know. Boardgame = Wargame or Boardgame = campaign play? A: Sorry, let me be more specific, each mission for the board game can be played with just Box models, you may exchange some models for other models with equal level of points. We cannot put requirements to have a specific models in some missions, that would be unfair to customers (needs to buy more content just to play "some specific mission" It;s not Prodos strategy ;] ) Equally, we can only recommend to Add more models to each mission (for instance, after 1st "Rescue" mission, the story line says, that Rescued marines may join your squad)
Q: Is cloaked predator one-piece model? A: 4 pieces, 2x arms, head and body with legs
Thanks, Ruglud and DaveC! You saved me searching for all that
@julian, 3x young blood £25, Power loader £15, Cloaked Predator is a £10 piece.
Looks like we have prices for everything now, which is very helpful for working out a pledge. I still think it's possible a free cloaked predator will be in for the higher levels, since it's a "green" stretch goal, though.
The Praetorian was confirmed as being for everybody which I'm still stoked about . Can't wait to see the wargaming pledge levels and then I can finalize my pledge.
I already know I can't afford it, but that resin corridor terrain... did they say if that's designed to match the board game pieces, or is it meant for the skirmish game? it looks bigger than the board tiles. I might want to try and invest in that later on if they sell it for retail.
That's just speculation in the second part of the quote, Buzzsaw. Someone asked about the price of each, and Prodos gave the add-on price in response. It doesn't mean there won't be a free cloaked predator when we unlock it, as it's position on the stretch goal chart certainly implies it will be free to some levels at least
Q: I understand you don't want give away storyline specifics, I would prefer to keep the spoilers to a minimum myself. But if the boardgame is just a wargame played on tiles (building factions based on points and not by set campaign play (you will need 5 Alien Warriors, 10 Alien Infants, and 1 Alien Crusher) then I would like to know.
Boardgame = Wargame or Boardgame = campaign play?
A: Sorry, let me be more specific, each mission for the board game can be played with just Box models, you may exchange some models for other models with equal level of points. We cannot put requirements to have a specific models in some missions, that would be unfair to customers (needs to buy more content just to play "some specific mission" It;s not Prodos strategy ;] ) Equally, we can only recommend to Add more models to each mission (for instance, after 1st "Rescue" mission, the story line says, that Rescued marines may join your squad)
I guess that provides some information. I don't see how it answers the question. Especially since the information provided doesn't make much sense without the context of a rulebook, and the sentence structure is confusing as usual.
So overall, Id say that cleared up roughly not much if anything of the question asked. And please refrain from straightneing me out on how to interpret it. If they can't even answer the question clearly themselves, then an interpreter will just makes them look that much worse. I mean, they ARE writing the rules for this game afterall....
[edit because this tablets autocorrect is atrocious. Prodos must be using the same tablet]
So overall, Id say that cleared up roughly not much if anything of the question asked. And please refrain from straightneing me out on how to interpret it. If they can't even answer the question clearly themselves, then an interpreter will just makes them look that much worse. I mean, they ARE writing the rules for this game afterall....
[edit because this tablets autocorrect is atrocious. Prodos must be using the same tablet]
And you hit the proverbial nail on the head.
This kind of project would have guaranteed magazine articles from sci-fi/fantasy to gaming to movie ones with this franchise and would have generated large pre-release KS interest from all quarters as you could have said what you are aiming for, what the deal is with this type of game and draw people into your KS as well as new blood into the hobby. This is one that crosses a lot of boarders with people of all types from those that game to others who are fans, to collectors. it is the sort of project that could have brought in massive amounts of capital and kudos to carry you into any project that you fancied next. But as is just seems like a school report, of 'ok, but could do better...'
For those who want to sleep, yet see the relevant updates, just check this direct link to Prodo's comments page (you can click on any single comment in particular to go to where it was posted, to see context):
RiTides wrote: For those who want to sleep, yet see the relevant updates, just check this direct link to Prodo's comments page (you can click on any single comment in particular to go to where it was posted, to see context):
RiTides wrote: For those who want to sleep, yet see the relevant updates, just check this direct link to Prodo's comments page (you can click on any single comment in particular to go to where it was posted, to see context):
That is a weak, lazy and inefficient way for Prodos to communicate with potential backers.
It may not be the best way but it answers questions on the kickstarter in the kickstarter. The weak, lazy, and inefficient way would be to bury the few and far between answers to long ago asked questions half way down a 10 page press release elsewhere on the internet ala Palladium and Robotech.
Duh... the hunt begins as infants and they are forced to ambush their busty prey for a meal! The mothers see this as a necessary if painful training method.
i'm loving seeing the actual models. i'd love to see the full range in a group shot to compare sizes but i've been impressed so far.
I'm finding hard to justify getting the resin terrain though. If they had warriors cloaked in against the edge for popping out and grabbing the marines i'd be more excited but they seem a little meh for me.
I've gone in quite big and fingers crossed we'll see the queen target get hit. I think a few people will kick themselves if they miss out as i anticipate this may be a slow start for prodos, but i only see them getting better as they go.
I would think in a game called AVP where the A is for Alien and the P is for Predator, an Alien skull or head would be appropriate on the Predator mission token thing.
Does anyone know what those are used for in the game?
RiTides wrote: For those who want to sleep, yet see the relevant updates, just check this direct link to Prodo's comments page (you can click on any single comment in particular to go to where it was posted, to see context):
That is a weak, lazy and inefficient way for Prodos to communicate with potential backers.
It may not be the best way but it answers questions on the kickstarter in the kickstarter. The weak, lazy, and inefficient way would be to bury the few and far between answers to long ago asked questions half way down a 10 page press release elsewhere on the internet ala Palladium and Robotech.
Almost like for this one we have to search CMON for pictures of the painted minis.
badgermeister wrote: i'm loving seeing the actual models. i'd love to see the full range in a group shot to compare sizes but i've been impressed so far.
This is the thing.. I think arguments aside about how accurate these are in terms of canon, some of these look like really nice sculpts. I really can't wait to get some gloss black on the aliens, bit of luminous paint for the blood of the preds (will have to look into how to accomplish that!) and some printable decal paper to put slogans on the armour of those marines.. then make motion tracker noises to myself while I'm playing
Just looking at the Kicktraq stats and it's been a really slow day. Even with the update it's been a slog - I wonder if we'll hit the Queen at this rate (fingers crossed for those 48hr warning folk who jump in at the end). Having said that, even if we don't bust the £290k, Prodos said this earlier
I can assure you than the Queen will be available, if not during the KS then some point after (weeks not months).
CptJake wrote: Knowing the queen will be available 'weeks not months' after the project, what is the incentive to hit that goal?
Hmm well that makes me feel a bit better if we fail to hit that goal... if nothing else then we can probably expect ~230k as a minimum, assuming no spike at the end of the campaign.
I really like the predator models, they're superb. But I actively dislike those alien models (infants?), the posing is really bad imo. They just look like a wrestler in a xenomorph suit.
I've been quite critical of this campaign and have not pledged due to my misgivings despite being one of the people clicking my browser refresh button at the posted start. It's technically already a success with 3x the goal stated so they didn't hang themselves...but they certainly haven't helped either and I agree the potential of these multiple IPs is being hamstrung by a variety of factors.
. Hopefully, the whole "I'll drop my pledge!" crowd finds other things to pay attention to. I forgot how big campaigns like this tend to draw folks like that, as I'm usually involved in smaller ones.
at communicating?
but I'm going to try anyway 
