Smokestack wrote: There are pics of the new Lannister and Stark sculpts on Reddit. The lannisters look great, but the starks are really nice. I made have ti add the new stark starter after all.
I was already planning on getting the Lannister starter, but I dont actually need anything in it as I already have 3 guardsmen and 3 halberdiers...,
New sculpts look amazing. Despite having double two player starters with Stark and Lannister already I'll buy this like the dang addict I am to this game line.
warboss wrote: Are they resculpting existing units already? Or are those new ones?
Resculpts of the original Stark and Lannister models. They are really rough and don’t really represent how good the models look these days. And for the 2 flagship factions it seems appropriate to bring them in line with all the new stuff.
I probably shouldn't (since I have two core boxes from the Kickstarter) but I feel like I'll pick those new starters up sometime this next year. I'll probably be able to catch them on some decent discount, the thing about re-releases is they don't sell as well as comparable non-re-releases. If I could get either for $60-65 that'd probably get me clicking to purchase.
So not an exact 1:1 copy of the original starter set contents as the Lannister's did not have any cavalry (these seem to replace The Mountain's Men)and I am not sure who the Stark's with the huge sun emblazoned shields are who seem to replace the Stark Outriders. The sculpts are all looking grand though.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: So not an exact 1:1 copy if the original starter set contents as the Lannister's did not have any cavalry (these seem to replace The Mountain's Men)and I am not sure who the Stark's with the huge sun emblazoned shields are who seem to replace the Stark Outriders. The sculpts are all looking grand though.
Karstark spearmen. I like the looks of the Karstarks.
House Karstark of Karhold, historically known as House Stark of Karl's Hold, is an extinct vassal house that held fealty to House Stark of Winterfell, and briefly did so for House Bolton of the Dreadfort after the Red Wedding due to Robb Stark executing their lord, Rickard Karstark, for treason during the War of the Five Kings. Their lands are northeast of Winterfell, located in heavy forested lands overlooking the Shivering Sea. Their stronghold is a castle called Karhold and the head of the house is the Lord of Karhold.
The Karstark sigil is a white sunburst on black. Their house words are "The Sun of Winter."
Thank you, agreed they look great with the huge shields really setting them apart. The shame is with ASOIAF's pre pandemic distribution issues and now nearly 2 years of disruption caused by covid I have no real idea of where we are up to release wise in the UK. The last unit I bought were the Dothraki Hrakkars, and they were disappointing sculpts tbh.
Please let there be MAGIK but not with the giant animae sword!!
Which is exactly the thing I want her to have!
Or Hellfire Gala models. I know there's absolutely no chance those would show up, but damn if it wouldn't be fun painting those up!
I do hope they really plumb the depths of the Marvel Universe on this one for both zombies and heroes. Yeah, the big names may draw in the crowds, but I'd love to see some nods to the more obscure stuff!
Taking a guess it is Bonebreaker from the Reavers? But he is a late 1980s villain…not sure if any other tank track villains have happened in the last 35 or so years.
One of the Reavers - acts as a Zombie "Tank", Hellfire club minions and whats quite funny is there is a load of Madrox (the multiplying man) minis and a card that spawns more of them on the table
Original ASOIaF starter at $70 might be a nice buy for anyone thinking of jumping into the game with 2nd edition coming out. Bulk out the forces with older sculpts.
Wow, I can't pass up Green Horde for $50. That's more than worth it for the figures alone. I don't know what else I would need 60+ zombie orcs for, I just know that I want them in my life. Maybe I'll even play the actual boardgame itself
Apparently need to be patient for stretch goals as not being done the typical way. Guess they are announcing 2 or 3 each day (1 for main
Set, 1 for xmen and an extra daily zombie).
Yeah, I really wanted the Galactus pledge, but with VAT and shipping I really can't justify that price tag. Heck, I'm struggling to justify the mid tier pledge too. We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks...
So that's at least another 3 Daily Bugle announcements (probably more) to cover all of the heroes/zombies from the two boxes; though some apparently aren't licensed in one version or another. Curious as to who won't get their counterpart...
I wonder if Hero mode will get rules for heroes becoming zombies when they die as one of the unlocks after all of the zombie versions are revealed?
I guess with China's economic, lockdown, internal supply chain, energy problems, etc. etc. situation, there's not going to be inexpensive plastic for awhile. Shipping's also starts at $50, no doubt reflecting increased shipping prices. I guess better to have the sticker shock and deliver, than underfund, like many KS from last year ran into with the 5x increase in shipping costs. CMON's located in Singapore and has been doing KS plastic for years, so I'd guess they know what they should be doing better than other KS boardgames. IP's often have agreements that require the licensor to do something specific with the IP within a certain timeframe. Understandable, but guess who already has a bedroom closet and two bookshelves in the dining room of unpainted plastic...
Exclusive rewards that will be given out to all backers. Each day of the campaign, with one Morning Edition coming out at 12PM and one Evening Edition coming out at 4PM, the Daily Bugle will reveal on its headline a new reward. You got that right, 2 new exclusive rewards will be added every single day, come rain or shine!
But that’s not all! We will still have occasional exclusive Stretch Goals unlocked when the campaign reaches certain funding milestones. There are lots of surprises ahead of us!
But today is a special day! And in celebration of the amazing launch of the campaign, the Daily Bugle’s Evening Edition is reporting the sighting of not 1, not 2, but a whopping 6 exclusive rewards being added to all pledges!
These are counterparts to characters from the Marvel Zombies core boxes. Meaning if the core box included a Zombie Hero version of the character, the exclusive reward brings a Super Hero version of that same character, or vice-versa!
Anyway, saw these images on the FB page. I'm not necessarily a fan of Marvel Zombies or Zombicide, so it's retail and eBay HeroClix lots for me. Looking forward to Zombicide: Undead or Alive!
Mr Morden wrote: Wierdly they can't do both hero and zombie versions of all characters?
i guess if marvel has already made a zombie hero the artist/designer of that character may have some rights (or if they've licenced it for a cross over with another brand), similarly some heroes may be (partially owned) by their creator or marvel may already have issues an licence for use in another board game and either CMON couldn't get a licence to use them or doing so is more hassle than they'd be prepared to put in
I understand the issues that have caused it, but the price is a bit too high for me I think, regardless of how much free stuff they add. I can't see much point in the lower cost version as it seems like only half the game, but with the added VAT and two wave shipping, you're looking at an awful lot of money for board game plastic.
The lack of clear stretch goals is a bit of a bummer as well, it was always fun thing to do at work to check how the total was coming along and counting down towards them, hopefully they add them once they have a better handle on what sort of scale the interest is.
HOpefully it goes mental and tries to tempt me back in, but at the moment it's looking a bit too much of a commitment
I would be genuinely surprised if "rights" issues meant they could make a zombie model or a hero model for any character, but not both.
The movie rights are all screwed up for understandable reasons, but the board game rights? That only applies/only doesn't apply to zombie versions? Skeptical.
frankelee wrote: I would be genuinely surprised if "rights" issues meant they could make a zombie model or a hero model for any character, but not both.
The movie rights are all screwed up for understandable reasons, but the board game rights? That only applies/only doesn't apply to zombie versions? Skeptical.
I thought that was odd - but see what happens and who we do and don't get.
Aeneades wrote: 2.5 mil was regular Beast but no zombie version, so looks like that may be first character with approval issues.
Possible or they are really spreading them out Was Beast a Zombie in the comics
Not that I recall but don’t believe Ms Marvel was either and she had a zombie version (the original marvel zombie comics were before her first appearance and don’t recall her appearing as one in the more recent zombie appearances).
$180 for Galactus? GTFO with that nonsense. Your unpainted PVC toy shouldnt be exceeding a Sideshow Collectible pricetag.
Rest of the sculpts look nice, but after getting used to painting larger figures in protocol I don't see myself investing much time in dinky 28mm's anymore.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: $180 for Galactus? GTFO with that nonsense. Your unpainted PVC toy shouldnt be exceeding a Sideshow Collectible pricetag.
Rest of the sculpts look nice, but after getting used to painting larger figures in protocol I don't see myself investing much time in dinky 28mm's anymore.
As someone who is halfway through painting Massive Darkness, with MD2 arriving probably within a month, and Black Plague, Green Horde and 2nd Edition sat unpainted, I can see your point... The rank and file aren't that much fun to paint tbh, although this would at least have a fair bit more variety than the batch painting 30 tiny detailed goblins in a big batch that I'm currently doing
Oh yeah, good point. Abigail Brand as well. That girl can certainly hold her own in a fight, far more than JJJ or Pepper ever could.
I really want this, I really do - having Rogue as a character is awsome - but... I can't afford it. And I'd rather save up the money for cool gak later in the year.
They have their Stretch Goals planned out in advance they already know exactly what's going in other than the odd thing added due to backer requests so they just adjust the SG gaps accordingly. It'll settle down in a day or 2 and then go up again when they add more paid add ons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh yeah, good point. Abigail Brand as well. That girl can certainly hold her own in a fight, far more than JJJ or Pepper ever could.
I really want this, I really do - having Rogue as a character is awsome - but... I can't afford it. And I'd rather save up the money for cool gak later in the year.
Agreed alot of the bystanders are pretty effective in combat -- they do get a fighting symbol so i guess they can do something but I am with everyone at the moment - awful lot of money. Still there is alot that I would love to have. Not pledged yet but still watching.
Surprised no Bystander zombies or hero versions of them - maybe get later.
In the comments CMON have confirmed one of the models with rights issues is Black Panther. Marvel are not allowing a zombie version out of respect to Chadwick Boseman.
Probably not a a popular opinion, but I really dislike how much crap is on the bases. I don't mind monopose models whether PVC or HIPS, but I really dislike these crazy, overdone rubble bases where the poses are integral to the basing. Crisis Protocol has the same problem, but you're painting 12 models. Here you're painting 2 versions of each hero and a hundred+ civilians/NPCs/generic zombies. Already daunting enough, the crazy bases make each one almost twice the work
Kalamadea wrote: Probably not a a popular opinion, but I really dislike how much crap is on the bases. I don't mind monopose models whether PVC or HIPS, but I really dislike these crazy, overdone rubble bases where the poses are integral to the basing. Crisis Protocol has the same problem, but you're painting 12 models. Here you're painting 2 versions of each hero and a hundred+ civilians/NPCs/generic zombies. Already daunting enough, the crazy bases make each one almost twice the work
I hate basing, as I am hugely lazy, so don't normally mind a decent built in base. But that bike is a bit on the large and in the way side for me, it would be a hassle to paint and make it harder to paint the characters back, what with it being one piece resin. It's a fine line though as a nice base does make a mini look a lot nicer when painted, but if too much is going on it takes away from the main thing. For me, that particular one is on the wrong side of that line. Tbh, I'm usually happy with a very basic texture effect on the base, like the cracked floor tiles from Dungeon Saga. Nothing fancy, but just takes the edge off that plain flat basis leave
Looking at some of the others, most are alright, as rubble is fine. Just slap grey all over it, may be a rough wash and then drybrush lighter grey, jobs a good un. But some have a bit more detail than I'd ideally prefer. Like you, I don't really want to be spending significant painting time picking out details on a base on board game minis
Not sold on this, it seems very expensive for what you get. Maybe the daily bonus’s will make it seem better towards the end of the campaign.
Maybe I’m just put off because it’s another marvel licence not based on the MCU version of characters.
I'm in it for the $240 level but not really excited about it. May keep it and paint it, may just re-sell it since everything CMON goes for triple price on Ebay after delivery. Heck, I just looked for Zombicide 2nd ed and the Reboot Box alone (just the stretch goal addons, not including the main game) is going for $200+.
Thought about picking it up to mix with marvel and have X-Men fight proper zombies instead of Multiple Man and tank-boi, but sheesh, if you don't get the KS you almost might as well not bother.
Heck, makes me wonder how much Galactus will be if the KS version is $180.
Kalamadea wrote: Heck, makes me wonder how much Galactus will be if the KS version is $180.
The similarly sized Cthulhu from Death May Die goes for around $450 at the moment looking at completed listings on eBay. That was cheaper that Galactus but has been a few years since it was available and less copies than Galactus would have been produced. It didn't come with the additional figures like Galactus does and it's use in the game was more limited than the Galactus addon.
Hm... Galactus at $180 (or a pledge increase of $170) plus $180 shipping to AU (or a shipping increase of $116) - and I may be able to resell it for $450+ down the line? I miiiiight just have to pass on that, as much as I'd like the gameplay and Surfer. If they offer a tile based version due to popular demand, I may grab that instead....
Mr Morden wrote: campaign seems stalled at the moment....moving backwards?
It did last night but it's slowly moving forward again today. It's gone from €3.18 million opening to €530k yesterday to $78k so far today. 20% of backers sitting at $1. They'll probably add a paid add on tomorrow to move it on. Don't expect Zombie Winter Soldier today.
This campaign has made me realize how few Marvel characters I'm actually a big fan of. Sad to say, but I'll probably be passing here unless they add something absurdly cool.
Apparently there was some angry backlash about how stretch goals were being doled out (too slow, too far apart, too much money between etc), and something about John Woo/Bystanders eating up stretch goals that should have gone to heroes, which I find offensive. They're superheroes, they should be saving bystanders. Or eating them, y'know, as zombie heroes do. Either way, more bystanders is good and was clearly planned since the beginning.
Kalamadea wrote: Apparently there was some angry backlash about how stretch goals were being doled out (too slow, too far apart, too much money between etc), and something about John Woo/Bystanders eating up stretch goals that should have gone to heroes, which I find offensive. They're superheroes, they should be saving bystanders. Or eating them, y'know, as zombie heroes do. Either way, more bystanders is good and was clearly planned since the beginning.
It's higher than the other CMON Kickstarters from the get go and I haven't seen this level of complaining in a CMON Kickstarter, which usually have plenty of complaints. It might be the first I can't afford an all-in but I'm still backing it because the content is awesome and I'm a huge Marvel fan.
I can't wait to see the additional optional buys and it is here where I expect most of the missing heroes to be introduced.
All going to plan this should have more content added than the X-Men United KS
Daily Bugle - Vanessa Fisk Bystander mini - I guess Kingpin is a given then
Fantastic Four is the first expansion - Baxter Building tiles - adds elevators/ vertical play - retail expansion not KSE but KS version has KSE promo minis like Living Super Skrull.
Expansion is meh. The value is... not there, there is no value. If you really want the Final Four zombies I can see getting it, otherwise it's a 'maybe at retail' purchase I think.
Can't really think of any, even potential, reason Marvel won't let them do a zombie mini for Spider-Man. Unless they sold exclusive rights for Zombie Spider-Man merchandise to somebody else, which seems unlikely.
I heard that CMON were the masters of the add-ons, but I figured that I could keep away from them, being as the two sets cover everything that I'd want...
That F4 pack is great. I really don't want to buy into this since it comes out in 18 months, but with that F4 pack I might have to at least get the two base games and that.
They had me at Doom. Gimme a Hood and I'll nab as much as I can.
Aeneades wrote: Shame as Zombie Spider-Man is a key character from the actual original Marvel Zombies book (along with the F4). Perhaps it’s due to the Sony licence.
Aeneades wrote: Shame as Zombie Spider-Man is a key character from the actual original Marvel Zombies book (along with the F4). Perhaps it’s due to the Sony licence.
I was thinking the same thing. It's a real pity.
Unless this is pulling directly from the Movies or Video Games I don't see how Sony would be involved at all. They don't own spider-man.
Really looks like they screwed this campaign up tbh, starting out with one stretch goal for the first 2m, then 500k per figure, now it's had to go down to 50k per stretch goal already. Really limping along, which is very surprising considering the obvious appeal of the subject.
Not sure if it's the pricing or the badly managed stretch goals that's hurt is so much, but they obviously overestimated the campaign after it's incredible start. Obviously it still has a phenominal total. but the campaign seems to have lost all it's momentum almost instantly
This campaign has two different types of stretchgoal: the daily ones and the usual unlock at certain points depending on the money raised.
The thing is, they're basically both the same thing!
Whilst the daily ones are a dead cert twice a day, the numbers required for the normal style stretch goals are constantly tweaked to keep them trickling out at a comparable pace. It wouldn't surprise me if CMON HQ had a list that said that Dr. Doom is to be unlocked on 22nd/23rd - just like the dailies and the required amount is tweaked to make it happen.
Big acceleration in the total? The gap between SGs increases.
It's just a show. Grab your Big Kahuna burger and a tasty beverage and watch it until the credits roll.
Let’s be honest. Hero Doom should have been his own expansion, and he should have cost $300. The riff raff and hoi polloi should have no access to his person.
I imagine its Sony saying what happens to Spiderman?
Sony owns the movie license though. Not merchandise , toys, qnd iirc video games (cause marvel vs Capcom had Spiderman in it some years ago...
Unless they added added a few more condition when they extended the contract for 2 more films with the mcu (now one team up film fully produced by Disney is left, unless it gets extended again)
Or maybe that mini represents him being unable to lift Mjolnir?
Also, I think I remember that all of these minis are on the large size - are there any scale pics out there?
He is not worthy so he pulled off his arms trying to lift up Mjolnir (confirms not worthy in his update).
These minis are a little on the smaller side but depends what other range you are trying to use them with. It does sound like these may be a little bigger than standard Zombicide but not big enough to use with something like Marvel Crisis Protocol.
Or maybe that mini represents him being unable to lift Mjolnir?
Also, I think I remember that all of these minis are on the large size - are there any scale pics out there?
He is not worthy so he pulled off his arms trying to lift up Mjolnir (confirms not worthy in his update).
These minis are a little on the smaller side but depends what other range you are trying to use them with. It does sound like these may be a little bigger than standard Zombicide but not big enough to use with something like Marvel Crisis Protocol.
While it would be nice to use them in MCP, I was thinking about just how they'd scale with 'normal' 28mm - 32mm minis.
Loki looks pretty buff in his zombie form. I hope they make a normal living version of him though I don't know what the likelihood of that is or even the scale of the game. Still, it's a cool look and pose.
I'm tempted to go all in on this one and sell the singles on eBay for a healthy markup.
Super heroes aren't really my thing, but I can see exclusives commanding a premium on the second hand market. Also gives a chance for people to pick up the one hero they really want if they don't want the whole thing.
Yahbut we don't know Marvel's future plans for miniatures. Pretty obviously, HeroClix and MCP aren't exclusive licenses. fwiw, I've noticed that Batman has various games as well.
Not interested in superhero zombies, since I wouldn't really be able to use them in those superhero RPG's I never play.
Price and shipping is high for me, and I don't mind not paying for the exclusives, so will wait to see if there's a retail sale. If not, that's okay with me. Obviously, MZ will be in higher demand than most CMON games, but I've been picking up CMON base games on sale at 1/2 the cost of pledge without paying for shipping.
Seen a lot of minis from various games and companies over the years. Adore a high percentage of the Mythic Battles: Pantheon stuff. Most minis that I see these days I rate as "it's okay" or "it's pretty good".
That Dark Phoenix mini, though... that's just brilliant. Best mini of the Kickstarter and almost worth the price of admission alone.
As a side note there was a ASOIAF stream today - they went through some of the updated cards being released in the next 2 weeks. No new minis revealed this time.
We can still get Blade, then Punisher, at which point we'll be running low on Marvel Knights related characters. Hopefully we get some more X-Men before it all ends.
Why does Morbius have his foot wedged in between that rock and gravestone?
It’s like he’s tripping and looking real pissed about it.
Either that or he’s really twisted his ankle and it hurts.
It’s the first instance in this whole KS that’s made me do a double take.
Then you won’t be able to unsee the break dancing Daredevil in the latest artists pack.
For the most part these figures are amazing. DD and Morbius are questionable.
Then you won’t be able to unsee the break dancing Daredevil in the latest artists pack.
For the most part these figures are amazing. DD and Morbius are questionable.
Aww yeah. My boi is pulling some sick moves...
(Did I say that right?)
I'm quite impressed with my current ability to fight the completionist mindset. I don't want Galactus, GOTG or the alt sculpts box. I really wanted the F4 box, but then the Avengers came along. So that becomes a one or both question to ponder over until the pledge manager closes.
Now if something with Warmachine happens or the Sinister Six, I guess I I've got more questions to ask myself.
Massive Darkness 2 is starting to deliver and some (but by no mean all) UK backers are getting asked for VAT by UPS who is handling the deliveries
CMON have said in the comments
Isa, Guardian of Die & Spawn of Update Collaborator
For any UK backers receiving a second VAT charge upon delivery: Hello. We apologize for the issue and we're investigating what happened.
So far, it seems that it's not a general issue as some UK backers reported the issue and some reported not having a second payment. We are looking into clarifying the scope of situation and to resolve with the hub to be able to post an update addressing the issue with clear instructions on how to proceed and who was affected (if any logic is behind the issue).
In the meanwhile, if your package on the way there's likely little we can do to stop them charging the VAT in the middle of the process. If that's the case and you do have to pay, we'll reimburse this second charge, as it shouldn't have happened. Just please let us know and send on your support ticket the delivery documents with the second VAT charge along with your pledge number so we can sort this out."
no reports of any VAT problems from the EU just case anbody is wondering
Dang what is the All-in at, for this point? I love the idea, I love the models, but I don't think I can remotely justify a $700+ USD price tag. My main interests are Galaticus and the Sentinels. I just don't know if i could sleep spending that much money on a game I doubt I would end up playing. I have atleast 10 unopened Kickstarters, and sure I could sell them and back this one but I dunno. I haven't touched one of them.
How many of you all backed this and at which level?
That Hungry pledge is only $20 more than what it was looking like I was going to have to pledge after the addition of the new Sin Six box and it gets me two more boxes I otherwise wasn't going to pledge for so feth it, I'm in.
Don't think that I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
My problem is that I absolutely refuse to do an All-in on a Kickstarter ever again - cost aside, there are just too many boxes in the geek-room for my liking, so I'm trying to prioritize purchases every single time this campaign brings out a new Add-on, it jumps to the top of the priority list.
I remember only a few days ago that I had the F4 box pegged as a dead cert, but it's slipped down to fourth in line... but I'd still really like it.
Got to hand it to CMON, they've really mastered the art of making (nearly) every Add-on desirable.
> I'm quite impressed with my current ability to fight the completionist mindset
Well, they don't have sculpts for "every" Marvel character, not to mention not having a zombie version for every superhero that's in the campaign. (I also want the Steve Gerber pre-Disney C&D letter Howard the Duck!)
Sculpts look great, but I also don't have a use for the zombie superheroes for other games (that I never play, of course). The sculpts look great for display, but on a boardgame, it may look overdone for every game piece to have a fancy display pose, and for the terrain to move along with your figure.
I'm gonna guess the obvious that CMON has limited rights, so doesn't have a license to make a generic superhero game for Marvel (or DC) since other companies have them.
And, of course, who knows what China's supply chains, inflation, and manufacturing will be like in the next year or longer.
Chillreaper wrote: Warmachine is a thing, now?!
Don't think that I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
My problem is that I absolutely refuse to do an All-in on a Kickstarter ever again - cost aside, there are just too many boxes in the geek-room for my liking, so I'm trying to prioritize purchases every single time this campaign brings out a new Add-on, it jumps to the top of the priority list.
I remember only a few days ago that I had the F4 box pegged as a dead cert, but it's slipped down to fourth in line... but I'd still really like it.
Got to hand it to CMON, they've really mastered the art of making (nearly) every Add-on desirable.
You could go all-in and then cull/recoup via eBay etc? Doesn't work for me personally, but it does for a lot of other people - and that way you get to cherrypick the heroes you want to keep, including from the various exclusives.
Chillreaper wrote: Warmachine is a thing, now?!
Don't think that I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
My problem is that I absolutely refuse to do an All-in on a Kickstarter ever again - cost aside, there are just too many boxes in the geek-room for my liking, so I'm trying to prioritize purchases every single time this campaign brings out a new Add-on, it jumps to the top of the priority list.
I remember only a few days ago that I had the F4 box pegged as a dead cert, but it's slipped down to fourth in line... but I'd still really like it.
Got to hand it to CMON, they've really mastered the art of making (nearly) every Add-on desirable.
You could go all-in and then cull/recoup via eBay etc? Doesn't work for me personally, but it does for a lot of other people - and that way you get to cherrypick the heroes you want to keep, including from the various exclusives.
I figured that there are two kinds of people in the world: those think nothing of just sticking stuff on eBay and those who are too lazy/incompetent/incapable of letting go of stuff to stick stuff on eBay.
I'm one of the latter.
I just need to remind myself of something that someone said on a YouTube video about not ever regretting not getting something on Kickstarter. You know what? All those things that I've skipped? I don't miss a single one of them.
I'm still going to stick $300 into this by the end of the pledge manager, but then I'm stopping!
Does anyone know what these are likely to sell for at retail? I've been keeping an eye on this and probably going to go all in, but wondering what sort of savings (if any) we're getting over retail, or is it all about the exclusives?
Huron black heart wrote: Does anyone know what these are likely to sell for at retail? I've been keeping an eye on this and probably going to go all in, but wondering what sort of savings (if any) we're getting over retail, or is it all about the exclusives?
There’s no guarantee that everything listed with an MSRP will actually make it to retail that’s up to Spin master to decide as they look after retail.
Also worth noting that the T&C of the retailer pledges say that retailer backers are free to set whatever price they want and they are free to split up pledges and sell bonuses as they see fit.
Also worth noting that Spin Master has scrapped plans to bring a bunch of the Marvel United expansions to retail when sales of the game weren't fast enough
so they do have form for doing so meaning even more reason to grab them now if anything REALLY matters to you
> All those things that I've skipped? I don't miss a single one of them.
I miss 'em all, but I miss my storage space and playtime buddies more.
Speculating that only the first two retail boxes will make retail. It's not the only Marvel miniatures game on the market, and it's niche. If you're a fan of the MZ comics, you've probably spent more on the comics, anyway.
The idea of them not bringing these items to retail is very bizarre. Clearly Spin Master doesn't know what they're doing, but CMON has done how many Zombicide products that all made it to market again? The plan to sell chibi models in Walmart maybe wasn't great, but how many Zombicides all brought to market again?
Well, none of my silly obscure pet characters got added, and I swore to myself I'd only go in on this in the extremely low-percent possibility that they were.
It's a cool Kickstarter, for sure, but I'm also glad I get to keep my $450.
I'm still lukewarm on this, but hopefully I'll be more interested when it finally ships in a couple years. Going in for $305 for the core set + X-men core set, the artist special editions and the Sentinels. Giant sentinels will always have a special place in my heart because of the 90s cartoon. Only thing I'm debating still adding is the Guardians set, kinda sad that the movie characters are KS exclusives
I've tried my best to stay away from this campaign, but Sentinels and some of the bonus exclusives are really making me question my willpower.
I figure I'll put in for a buck and see how I feel later on about this.
Outside of a few personal favorites I would have liked to see (Kang, Annihilus, and Ultron) , it's a good mix of iconic heroes and villains.
There are some notable omissions I was also hoping for Ghost Spider and Ultron I wonder if it was licensing or are they saving some stuff for a potential 2nd season at some point.
They still have that Army of the Dead version to do as well - no word since the announcement. But what we really need is pirates!
Finished at just over $9 million 4th highest tabletop game KS.
Aeneades wrote: Shame as Zombie Spider-Man is a key character from the actual original Marvel Zombies book (along with the F4). Perhaps it’s due to the Sony licence.
I was thinking the same thing. It's a real pity.
Unless this is pulling directly from the Movies or Video Games I don't see how Sony would be involved at all. They don't own spider-man.
I was just searching through to see if anyone gave the answer.
Sony has the film rights, and separately the video game rights, two different deals.
So unless the video game rights included use in all games including tabletop, then it wouldn’t involve them.
And he’s in the mini game anyway. I guess it’s just for some reason specifically the zombiefied version they don’t want being out there..
I'm hoping that being as it's such a Big thing (and there's still pledge manager money to come in), that there will be a good amount of fanmade stuff.
How have the previous Zombicides done for fanmade things?
More missions and new characters - just needs a couple of people with mad STL skills, there are obviously a lot of very talented people out there who can knock up new character cards.
Chillreaper wrote: I'm hoping that being as it's such a Big thing (and there's still pledge manager money to come in), that there will be a good amount of fanmade stuff.
How have the previous Zombicides done for fanmade things?
More missions and new characters - just needs a couple of people with mad STL skills, there are obviously a lot of very talented people out there who can knock up new character cards.
On a seperate note, my Massive Darkness 2 pledge arrived today, it's a seriously large amount of stuff! Not really had a chance to properly look at it, mine seems in pretty good nick with only a couple of bits come unglued rather than some of the breakages others have reported. Very heavy, considering I only got the basic game, a lot of cardboard stuff I think in the extra boxes.
Not had a proper look at it, but some of the minis look great, some look a bit meh. Some look great but then have slightly lazy bits on them (the boatman looks fantastic, but then the inside of the boat looks pretty poor, which is odd). I'll have to properly look through it all when I get time after work tomorrow, but I love getting these huge boxes full of stuff turn up, it's the adult version of christmas as I've usually pretty much forgotten half the stuff that's arriving
Chillreaper wrote: I'm hoping that being as it's such a Big thing (and there's still pledge manager money to come in), that there will be a good amount of fanmade stuff.
How have the previous Zombicides done for fanmade things?
More missions and new characters - just needs a couple of people with mad STL skills, there are obviously a lot of very talented people out there who can knock up new character cards.
There's also a gallery of all the survivor models and cards, including the KS exclusives plus a lot of fan made stuff on BGG and the facebook groups: missions, campaigns, photoshop templates to make new characters, enemies and equipment cards etc. I just got into Black Plague/Green Horde and have been pleasantly surprised by all the extras people have made
Speaking of Thundercats Asmodee put the boxes up briefly before Christmas and then removed them they are Black Plague Branded rather than classic CAD $34.99
Box1 - Lion-O, Cheetara, Snarf and Slithe
Box2 - Tygra, Panthro, Wilykit, Wilykat and Jackalman
Box3 - Mumm-Ra necromancer and abomination
ASIA HUB: Pledges have been dispatched and tracking numbers of the have been uploaded to the system. EU and UK HUBS: Containers are expected to arrive at the hub towards the end of the month. CANADA HUB: Containers are expected to arrive at the hub towards the end of the month. AUSTRALIA HUB: Containers should be arriving this week still. US HUB: Containers are expected to arrive at the hub in late March. Please note that once the containers arrive at the hubs it may still take a couple of weeks for them to be unloaded and processed and for shipping to begin.
DaveC wrote: Speaking of Thundercats Asmodee put the boxes up briefly before Christmas and then removed them they are Black Plague Branded rather than classic CAD $34.99
Box1 - Lion-O, Cheetara, Snarf and Slithe
Box2 - Tygra, Panthro, Wilykit, Wilykat and Jackalman
Box3 - Mumm-Ra necromancer and abomination
Hrmm... Strange that they didn't base them off of the latest iteration, Thundercats Roar. They must have a poop mouth with poop opinions.
Undead or Alive
New scenarios to be added to #Zombifridays after release
Thundercats
Straight to retail middle of the year.
Slithe and Jackalman are classed as survivors
Cheetara Bo staff equipment card
Panthro Nunchuck equipment card
Mumm-Ra Abomination reverts to Necromancer version when killed
Batman Dark Knights Metal - Zc 2nd edition rules (not directly compatible with Marvel Zombies rules)
Direct to retail late 2022 (leaked prices put them at $34 Canadian and GBP £25 for each pack)
5 Packs
#1 The Batman Who Laughs and various Robins
#2 The Merciless, The Murder Machine
#3 The Drowned, The Red Death
#4 The Devastator, The Dawnbreaker
#5 The Batman Who Frags
Next pack highly requested since 2nd KS can now officially release.
Hrmm... Strange that they didn't base them off of the latest iteration, Thundercats Roar. They must have a poop mouth with poop opinions.
I totally missed that one! OMG they even got the 2011 Lion-O in there too!
His only appearance was to crap on critics of the show. Strangely, shortly afterwards it was cancelled. Weird... Oh well... I'm sure the new version and its artistic take on the beloved characters will be a hit with licensees like CMON for years to come.
Slithe and Jackalman are classed as survivors
Cheetara Bo staff equipment card
Panthro Nunchuck equipment card
Mumm-Ra Abomination reverts to Necromancer version when killed
As someone who doesn't place Zombicide but loves Thundercats, are these self contained or do I need a bunch of the other Zombicide sets to make use of them?
Slithe and Jackalman are classed as survivors
Cheetara Bo staff equipment card
Panthro Nunchuck equipment card
Mumm-Ra Abomination reverts to Necromancer version when killed
As someone who doesn't place Zombicide but loves Thundercats, are these self contained or do I need a bunch of the other Zombicide sets to make use of them?
A copy of Zombicide Black Plague is required they are not a stand alone product - unless all you want is the minis.
His only appearance was to crap on critics of the show. Strangely, shortly afterwards it was cancelled. Weird... Oh well... I'm sure the new version and its artistic take on the beloved characters will be a hit with licensees like CMON for years to come.
Thats a real shame. One of the standouts from when I was a kid in the 1980s was the Safari Joe episode where he says "Safari Joe does it again!"...and they went there! The crazy sonfabeeches actually did it!
...by all rights this shouldn't be a thing, but damn that made my childhood!
But bless, getting back on track...I'm not familar with Zombicide, but Mumm-Ra is too good to pass up on and the rest of the models are fantastic too.
It's been awhile since I looked at the CMON Investor reports but the latest report lists preliminary profits for 2021 of not more than $1 million after a loss of $4.9 million in 2020
Slithe and Jackalman are classed as survivors
Cheetara Bo staff equipment card
Panthro Nunchuck equipment card
Mumm-Ra Abomination reverts to Necromancer version when killed
As someone who doesn't place Zombicide but loves Thundercats, are these self contained or do I need a bunch of the other Zombicide sets to make use of them?
A copy of Zombicide Black Plague is required they are not a stand alone product - unless all you want is the minis.
Looks like CMON's next KS will be their publishing arm, 2LM's RPG, "Household", and RPG about playing faeries in a house.
No sign of mini's, not that I need a ton more to paint.
Wonder where the books will be published, given China's global situation.
This is not a mere translation of the original game, however, but a Collector’s Edition, designed to look like an antique Regency-Era book, with upgraded art, incredible new illustrations, and deluxe components that add to the immersion of the game. Household, originally designed by Simone Formicola and Riccardo “Rico” Sirignano, was awarded RPG of the Year 2019 at Lucca Comics & Games 2019 and has a huge and active Italian community, known for their amazing fan content. 2LM Press is CMON's RPG publishing arm, headed by veteran designer Francesco Nepitello. Francesco, along with Marco Maggi, is the designer of the highly acclaimed The One Ring RPG, as well as the recently published Zombicide: Chronicles RPG.
Stark Heroes 3
Karstark Loyalists
Lannister Heroes 3
Night’s Watch Heroes 3
Free Folk Heroes 3
Golden Company Crossbowmen
Highgarden Pikemen
Riders of Highgarden
Drowned Men (includes Drowned Priest)
Q3
Golden Company Swordsmen
Golden Company Elephants
Casterly Rock Honour Guard
Varamyr Sixskins
Targaryen Heroes 3 (Missandei, Hizdahr zo Loraq, Mirri Maz Duur, Marselen, Skahaz mo Kandaq and another Daenerys)
Baratheon Heroes 3 (mounted King Stannis, Justin Massey, Dale Seaworth, Bryen Farring, Maester Cressen, Patchface)
Baratheon Heroes 4 (Renly’s Rainbow Guard - Loras Tyrell, Robar Royce, Bryce Caron, Guyard Morrigem, Brianne of Tarth, Parmen Crane, Emmon Cuy
Martell Starter Set - Sand Skirmishers, Spearmen*,Dune Vipers*, Doran Martell, Oberyn Martell, Ellaria Sand and Aero Hotah (* starter box only)
Sand Skirmishers
Sunspear Royal Guard
Sunspear Dervishes
Martell Heroes 1 (Sand Snakes, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene and Ellia Sand, Oberyn Martell, Harmen Uller)
warboss wrote: Cool. Lots of releases. Was GAMA last weekend? I looked at their website but they already updated it to 2023.
Looking forward to seeing what the freefolk walrus guy looks like! Are these mainly resculpts of the initial kickstarter releases?
No, but there are a couple of the Kickstarter heroes that are getting a normal release (Mountain that rides, Maege Mormont, Brynden Tully afaik) but the vast majority of the stuff is just new characters.
Marvel Zombicide backers are just starting to see their shipping costs and they sound fairly horrific
although given that number of outstanding projects have reported scary shipping cost increases (eg Etherfields say shipping is costing them $350-400,000 more than they got from backers) CMON may well just be passing on actual costs
Yeah I went for the Hungry pledge ($430) in the KS but shipping and VAT added another $200 in the PM so I’ve dropped to Resistance ($240) plus the Hydra expansion only so by rejuggling the funds I owed another $9. Had to go with 1 wave shipping $68 as 2 waves is $122. I can see a lot of refunds going out and it will harm their future KS.
Ouch. Marvel Zombies pledge manager released yesterday, finalized my order and it was $136 for 2-wave shipping. Just for shipping. Only AFTER finalizing my order did it show that only the base game is wave1, all other addons and even the X-Men version of the main game is wave 2, which "only" would have been $80 shipping. Still ouch. I will likely go back and change it to all ship together, split shipping doesn't make any sense for this KS.
That shipping cost was for Resistance pledge+Guardians+Hydra+Sentinels+Artists pack, which is likely more than most people pledged for. Plan accordingly if you bought the KS, this thing is well more than twice what the Wild West Zombicide cost me
Kalamadea wrote: Ouch. Marvel Zombies pledge manager released yesterday, finalized my order and it was $136 for 2-wave shipping. Just for shipping. Only AFTER finalizing my order did it show that only the base game is wave1, all other addons and even the X-Men version of the main game is wave 2, which "only" would have been $80 shipping. Still ouch. I will likely go back and change it to all ship together, split shipping doesn't make any sense for this KS.
That shipping cost was for Resistance pledge+Guardians+Hydra+Sentinels+Artists pack, which is likely more than most people pledged for. Plan accordingly if you bought the KS, this thing is well more than twice what the Wild West Zombicide cost me
They noted several times in emails that the Wave 1 was just the base game box, everything else would be in Wave 2.
Pretty sure it was in KS updates as well.
It's going to be tough to decide what to choose to keep this manageable.
I really need those Sentinels, and Galactus is so ridiculous, almost have to get him.
Well, could have been worse. Not a lot worse, but still...
I think that the base game and the X-Men expansion was $70-ish in one wave. I popped three expansions on and the shipping didn't increase, so I think that I've found my sweet spot.
Much as I'd love to do two wave shipping, it would have cost an extra $50 or so - that's a whole extra expansion (VAT not included...), so I can wait.
They noted several times in emails that the Wave 1 was just the base game box, everything else would be in Wave 2.
Oh, I'm sure it was and I didn't read it carefully enough. But an extra $50 to ship the just base game 9 months early, not even the X-Men part of the base game is just too much for me, I'll either try to get the difference refunded or apply it to another addon pack.
They noted several times in emails that the Wave 1 was just the base game box, everything else would be in Wave 2.
Oh, I'm sure it was and I didn't read it carefully enough. But an extra $50 to ship the just base game 9 months early, not even the X-Men part of the base game is just too much for me, I'll either try to get the difference refunded or apply it to another addon pack.
The additional amount to ship the base game early to the UK will cost about the same as the game will cost in retail stores here.
I just heard about using the PayPal credit option to pay for this (0% if paid in 6 months).
Now, I'm a firm believer in not doing credit for trivial items, but at 0%, it makes it seem less scary/irresponsible to my brain than dumping the single big payment.
Hey, if the stuff isn't going to land for 18 months, I don't have an issue with paying for it over 6 months!
CMON has been busy, after the successful campaign on Kickstarter for Household. We see a new game on the horizon and heading over to crowdfunding, taking us into an already familiar IP. Cyberpunk 2077 is getting its own board game title, placing players dead centre of gang warfare in the vivid techno-punk atmosphere in Cyberpunk 2077: Gangs of Night City.
CMON's licensed games seem to be higher than their own IP, and you've already heard how shipping with CMON's Marvel Zombicide went.
CMON has been busy, after the successful campaign on Kickstarter for Household. We see a new game on the horizon and heading over to crowdfunding, taking us into an already familiar IP. Cyberpunk 2077 is getting its own board game title, placing players dead centre of gang warfare in the vivid techno-punk atmosphere in Cyberpunk 2077: Gangs of Night City.
This looks like another worker placement style game...
Not sure how they will make it better than Bloodrage from a "I'm only here for the game" perspective. I find worker placement Euro style games too abstract to convey theme very well.
"I'm planning to hack you in the future by choosing to spend my action upping my "net attack" tracker rather than choosing the "reinforcement" action to place another worker er... Gang member in the Pacifica zone!"
It just doesn't work for me. The game can still be good and fun. But abstract style games just don't do themes justice.
There might still be a bunch of cool cyberpunk miniatures... But they really screwed up Zombicide Invader miniatures, so I'm not sure I'll be willing to pay KS prices for them.
ASOIF 1/3 off, World of Smog 2/3 off, some Zombicide mini's.
I picked up the $80 mat for $28. If I don’t use it for ASOIAF, I can use it for Bushido. Also grabbed the Lannister card pack as that will be my next faction. I just ordered the two player starter set direct from CMON earlier this week for $79.99 with free shipping and had picked up a damaged Lannister starter box for $30, only a couple cardboard tokens had been damaged.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well at a starting price of about $214 (£175) before we start thinking about increased shipping costs, expansions and even more increased shipping costs because you've added expansions I don't think i'll be backing
As much as I'd love owning figures of Rogue, Johnny, and Kerry Eurodyne, I can't justify paying $160 at the minimum for something I won't play.... again.
600 of the 1500 odd backers at $1 after the Marvel Zombies shipping prices I guess a lot will wait for the PM. I see they are again quoting shipping at the minimum pledge level without accounting for any add ons etc.
I imagine they should expect 1/3 to 1/2 of pledges to be at $1 during this campaign. Frankly, the consumers were a bit behind on adopting that behavior anyway, now that they know CMON can and will burn them on the final bill, they're getting wise.
I see from flicking through the comments that they are releasing a modified version of Marvel Zombies straight to retail. I think this makes it less likely that some of the KS stuff will go to retail.
> This looks like another worker placement style game...
Eric Lang was one of the developers, so I'd agree?
"The video game portrays a vibrant cyberpunk world with a story experienced by a single Main Character. However, board games rarely have a single main character, as every player should be their own protagonist who applies agency in the game in their own way. ... This is where the various Night City gangs come in. Gangs offer a unique perspective for the game. For one, there are many of them, each with the peculiarities, hierarchies, and ambition. The video game introduces us to a handful, each with unique styles, behaviors, and gang characteristics, making them a great source of inspiration. ... Most importantly, they also have a clear, unified goal: rule the underground of Night City. ... After initial playtesting and more R&D (including dissecting other games with low territory count like our very own The Godfather: Corleone’s Empire),"
Blood Rage isn't a worker placement game. Eric Lang might have made worker placement games at some point, but that one and its two sequels aren't worker placement.
I've generally been pretty happy with CMON minis. They're PVC, but very, very well done PVC. You sacrifice the sharp detail of HIPS, and in return get minis that won't snap apart easily.
They do a pretty consistent 32mm scale (33-35mm tall), with slight heroic scaling, that's rather inconsistent. GW comes across as a bit bigger (many of their male minis are standing 37-38mm tall at this point), and they do a fuller heroic scale. Of course there's a lot of different miniatures across both ranges, so comparisons will vary.
I've also been very happy with CMON PVC, they're the best on the market. I've painted a lot of ASoIaF minis for RPG figures and they're incredible, they almost feel like HIPS an hold very fine details well including some very thinly cast swords. No issues with bendy or wavy swords, none of them have needed heat treatment to fix poses, mold lines scrape away with only slightly more work than HIPS. They really don't feel like working with PVC at all and have become some of my favorite figures to work with, I wish CMON made fantasy figures like it. In my ideal world, every figure ever would be produced is in ASoIaF type PVC
For boardgames, the most recent CMON I've painted is Zombicide Green Horde and a few loose Massive Darkness figures from ebay, quality is a step down from the ASoIaF minis but still excellent even compared to other PVC figs on the market. Weapons are sometimes a bit bendy and need to be heated with hot water and reshaped, mold lines are slightly annoying to clean since the material is softer. BUTZ, both GH and MD are a large step up from Reaper Bones Black and also from Wizkids D&D unpainted lines and a MASSIVE step above the new Heroquest revamp minis.
Personally, I gladly take the small hit in detail with to gain the robustness of PVC, I've yet to have any breaks or paint issues with any CMON minis.
I'm very tempted to up my $1 pledge and just go accept that shipping will be awful. Especially with all the drama in the KS comments, there's some overly toxic people calling themselves "The $1 club" in the KS comments who are bashing anyone that isn't 100% anti-CMON in the comments. It's far beyond the normal "Buyer beware, you should know this about the company before you pledge", It's pretty disgusting.
Kalamadea wrote: I've also been very happy with CMON PVC, they're the best on the market. I've painted a lot of ASoIaF minis for RPG figures and they're incredible, they almost feel like HIPS an hold very fine details well including some very thinly cast swords. No issues with bendy or wavy swords, none of them have needed heat treatment to fix poses, mold lines scrape away with only slightly more work than HIPS. They really don't feel like working with PVC at all and have become some of my favorite figures to work with, I wish CMON made fantasy figures like it. In my ideal world, every figure ever would be produced is in ASoIaF type PVC
For boardgames, the most recent CMON I've painted is Zombicide Green Horde and a few loose Massive Darkness figures from ebay, quality is a step down from the ASoIaF minis but still excellent even compared to other PVC figs on the market. Weapons are sometimes a bit bendy and need to be heated with hot water and reshaped, mold lines are slightly annoying to clean since the material is softer. BUTZ, both GH and MD are a large step up from Reaper Bones Black and also from Wizkids D&D unpainted lines and a MASSIVE step above the new Heroquest revamp minis.
Just to note the ASOIAF minis have ABS (lego type) plastic weapons and PVC bodies that's why they are better than the Zombicide or Massive Darkness ones. As Cyberpunk is a Sci-Fi boardgame I wouldn't expect any ABS in the minis.
The weapons and skinny bits in Massive Darkness 2 are all ABS as well. It seems as though CMON is mixing PVC and ABS with their latest stuff.
And I agree that CMON board games minis are a step above Bones and Wizkids models, and they’re a harder plastic.
However, it’s usually only the larger and more spindly things that they use ABS. Rise of Moloch models seems to be almost entirely ABS due to the firmness. But that’s the only game I’ve seen from them that has done this.
As for Cyberpunk? It’s way too expensive for what it is. As was Marvel Zombies.
And I’m not sure why this $1 club is treated as something new. It’s how I’ve almost always pledged for their projects since 2013. It seemed to me to be the best way to decide, save and avoid the hype train.
Having more time to make the decision always helps to temper the FOMO, and since CMON treats a $1 pledge the same as any other, I never saw a reason to pledge fully.
I mean I have pledged more than $1 a few times but it was always the exception to the rule.
I think the days to value based Kickstarter mini heavy games is over. I mean we’re looking at $200+ for most base pledge’s including shipping. At that price point, I’ll just buy a boxed GW game and get better models.
And I won’t have to deal with 6 month to 1 year delays.
Just to note the ASOIAF minis have ABS (lego type) plastic weapons and PVC bodies that's why they are better than the Zombicide or Massive Darkness ones. As Cyberpunk is a Sci-Fi boardgame I wouldn't expect any ABS in the minis.
That's really interesting, I've painted almost a dozen or more from different factions and didn't even realize they mixed materials on those. I'll need to go back and look at some of the ones I haven't primed yet, they do a good job of matching the pre-colored plastics in that case. Point stands about being great figures to paint and game with
And I’m not sure why this $1 club is treated as something new
I meant that literally, there's a group of backers actively calling themselves "The $1 Club" and harassing backers in the KS comments, including one particularly obnoxious one who registered a new acount under the name "Anti-CMON, president of the $1 Club" who drove off the CMON employee that was trying to answer questions this morning. By all means, warn people about KS shennanigans (I did as much for the recent Mythic KS), but this goes way too far beyond that
It's not that the $1 club is new, it's the preponderance of them in the comments, and the relative lack of others shouting them down
it's also the slowest moving CMON project i've seen
(now that could be down to CMON and the shipping prices, but i wonder how many people were burned to the point of giving up on cyberpunk 2077 by the terrible console versions of the video game?)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: It's not that the $1 club is new, it's the preponderance of them in the comments, and the relative lack of others shouting them down
it's also the slowest moving CMON project i've seen
(now that could be down to CMON and the shipping prices, but i wonder how many people were burned to the point of giving up on cyberpunk 2077 by the terrible console versions of the video game?)
My Shadowrun group fell apart during the pandemic so I wasn't paying attention to this but the thread caught my eye so I took a look.
Spoiler:
$50+ for shipping within the US and that's an "estimate" likely to go up but never down? That's a cyber-nope for me personally. I'll just check it out when it's at the FLGS and snipe the KS exclusives (if any) that I want on the secondary market.
Even if I would add my voice to the chorus of "I really like CMON boardgame minis and think they're the best-in-class" too.
I am very (very) excited for Trudvang, which should be coming aaaaaaany day now. Fantasy is more my speed, and I'm optimistic those minis won't disappoint.
Yeah, KS has become unviable for me. I might buy it if it gets good reviews and is available at retail.
These companies are using it wrong and to their benefit anyway. To me, KS should be for edge-case (at the time) games that would probably never be made by a regular studio, like Gloomhaven, 7th Continent, etc.
CMON probably shouldn't be using kickstarter for their main games IMO.
Pretty much all games are edge-case to be honest. Particularly anything in plastic is a "bet the company" prospect for most out there. I suspect even CMON would have to be a lot more conservative with what they produce without it. Distribution used to help a bit, but with Asmodee pretty much closing that off for most companies, KS is remarkably necessary for far more products than you'd assume.
Yeah, it's in the "barely worth it" zone for me, mostly because I have no other major projects planned. Well, a lot planned to finish, but no major purchases planned. Buying models, painting models and playing with models are almost completely separate hobbies for me now.
Currently sitting at 68 models for $170ish USD (for my area). Not great, not terrible. Like I said, in the "barely worth it" zone for me, but I wouldn't fault anybody for noping out of this one
The thing about KS comment section flame wars is that the second somebody has an opinion (CMON's shipping is too high, Mythic's customer service is good, water is wet) some other person, theoretically an adult, will dive in off the top rope to say something snide, tell the person they don't need to comment, tell them they should just leave, or whatever else, and then everybody insulted by that guy's comments now have eternal permission to say the other side started it and they're toxic.
And so then they say something snide to someone else, maybe someone who has already seemed a little contentious to them, and they're just defending themselves at that point in their own eyes. And now the other side has eternal permission to say the other side started it and they're toxic.
You can't swing a dead cat in that comment section without smacking it into a snide, unnecessarily rude and dismissive comment from either side. And the secret is, to be the change you want to see in the world and just think to yourself, "Yup, that guy said something rude, now I'm moving on." A feat I often manage within only 2 to 3 argumentative responses these days. Maybe by old age I'll be down to zero.
I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:
This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.
The engagement is not there, the excitement and email blasts are simply: here is it, you can back it. Even their Facebook posts look half-assed compared to MZ and XMU.
I suspect they need to do something with the Cyberpunk 2077 IP, and what better way to see the general public's response than with a NON-Zombicide NON-wholly owned IP KS?
Marvel Zombies had 29K vs. Marvel United's 25K backers, so, with more people, there's going to be more complaining. KS comments shows 25 posts at a time, so it's not difficult for a small percentage of (previous) backers to fill the comments. BGG threads its comments, so it's a better place to discuss a CMON project, even if answers from CMON are filtered through those who have read the KS comments.
CMON has a long history of poor customer relations, and adding additional charges in the PM that were underestimated or not announced in funding. I agree that nothing's new here, but it's a combination of things that have made some backers upset. I joined the $1 club after the Bloodbourne KS, when CMON went up to (gasp) $40 shipping for a base pledge from $24. Those were the days, eh?
Reaper, run by accountants, is interesting how they handled shipping. IIRC, Their first Bones KS, which was run after CMON's first Zombicide KS, offered free domestic shipping. Internationals got upset that they were "subsidizing" USA shipping so Reaper said they would charge "actual shipping" costs -- and *everybody* paid more shipping. Internationals got upset, but, while there was a dip in backers, backer numbers returned, despite this policy. In their latest KS, Reaper didn't even give shipping estimates, instead providing sample weight and volumes for typical orders, and said they would charge shipping near fulfillment. Some CMON KS backers wanted this, but we'll see how well shipping costs are received with Reaper's KS. Reaper's managed to cultivate good customer relations with its fans, which I'm sure has translated into civil behavior in their comments. That said, it's CMON's Marvel Zombies that pulled in $9M, while Reaper's latest KS dropped from $3M to $1M.
Isa looks to be posting some crowd control in the KS comments.
LunarSol wrote: Pretty much all games are edge-case to be honest. Particularly anything in plastic is a "bet the company" prospect for most out there. I suspect even CMON would have to be a lot more conservative with what they produce without it. Distribution used to help a bit, but with Asmodee pretty much closing that off for most companies, KS is remarkably necessary for far more products than you'd assume.
Oh I disagree pretty strongly. Lots of games have had a decent amount of plastic without KS. They also don't have to make so much plastic. Gloomhaven did just fine with standees. We all know the plastic is there to get 'the monies" from people who 'gotta have it all', and these companies are capitalizing (and I can't blame them).
Sacredroach wrote: I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:
This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.
What happened with Zombies? I followed that peripherally while it was funding but ultimately I was only interested in a few unlocked minis so haven't looked back in. Supply chain issues?
Quasistellar wrote: Oh I disagree pretty strongly. Lots of games have had a decent amount of plastic without KS. They also don't have to make so much plastic. Gloomhaven did just fine with standees. We all know the plastic is there to get 'the monies" from people who 'gotta have it all', and these companies are capitalizing (and I can't blame them).
I remember before KS when FFG did all the plastic.
But the big gorilla outside of the KS room is Asmodee, and few, if any, BGG's are happy with them. RPG'ers, meanwhile, have Hasbro, who almost killed the D&D brand (and did it with HeroScape).
But back to KS, I also can't blame them, though. Getting rid of CMON or KS won't get rid of FOMO ("It must be MINE", as Igor said long before crowdfunding), and (lack of) self-control certainly isn't limited to just the hobby.
Can't wait for affordable faster fume-free 3D printers, though!
(As for Gloomhaven, retail would not publish it as-is, because of the $100 price tag. You'd get a lower-cost base game and several expansions, increasing the total cost of the game beyond $100. Because that's what FFG does with its games. The last two Arkham Horror boxed expansions were criticized for being the same sized box, same $50 price tag, and reduced content.
(As for Gloomhaven, retail would not publish it as-is, because of the $100 price tag. You'd get a lower-cost base game and several expansions, increasing the total cost of the game beyond $100. Because that's what FFG does with its games. The last two Arkham Horror boxed expansions were criticized for being the same sized box, same $50 price tag, and reduced content.
Exactly. And that's a great use case for KS. No publisher would have ever touched Gloomhaven as is with a ten foot pole.
Shipping was massively more than the estimates including the USA and for for a bunch outside the USA about the same as the pledge (and god forbid you'd ordered the small child sized galactus or you were in for even more pain)
it also looks like the retail version is going to be significantly cheaper ($50), but without a lot of the minis which are going standee/chits ?... so some of those who had kicked off and demanded refunds saying they were going to get it retail with free shipping are now finding that they can't (although since a lot of the expansions were not hitting retail anyway so i'm not convinced at lot of that outrage is real)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: it also looks like the retail version is going to be significantly cheaper ($50), but without a lot of the minis which are going standee/chits ?... so some of those who had kicked off and demanded refunds saying they were going to get it retail with free shipping are now finding that they can't (although since a lot of the expansions were not hitting retail anyway so i'm not convinced at lot of that outrage is real)
I think that's a new cut down version rather than the main retail version as it has a different name, similar to the intro level board games that GW release to Barnes & Noble. I expect the normal version will still get a retail release.
I paid for the shipping. Upgraded my dragon pledge to caravan + dice, extra mounts and lore book.
The shipping is a lot, but not extreme in these times.
I ship things for a living - auto parts. Whether dealing with actual weight or DIM (Dimensional weight) things have gotten crazy.
Shipped a 33 pound Fuel Tank from NY to FL on Monday - $67.XX. The 7 pound Fuel Line Set that went in a separate box (but had a DIM of 58 pounds) was another $67.00.
20ft Container from Belgium which used to be $4000 is now $14000.
40ft Container from India to NY previously $6000 is now $16000.
China is worse. I see some folks saying China should be the cheapest, but the covid lockdowns combined with the sheer volume of freight leaving China has increased Chinese export Freight costs more than any other region. It cost us nearly $10000 (more actually due to tariffs) just to ship 2 (very heavy) pallets in a consolidated container. Things are nuts right now. Maybe it won't be nuts in a year or two if/when this thing delivers, or maybe it will be worse.
You can't compare shipping in this campaign to shipping you paid in to a campaign a year ago or even a month ago.
I can sit at our FedEx and UPS workstation and watch the shipping rates adjust hour by hour as the Fuel Surcharge ticks up. I quote a customer a shipping cost in the morning and later in the afternoon it has increased by $2.
Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
There was in interesting DiceTower youtube vid a little while ago with representatives from two board games publishers that talked about shipping, it was interesting but one point raised is that CMON use the most expensive method of shipping games.
While most companies will ship x games to the forfillment center, which are then packed at the forfillment centers for onwards local delivery, CMON prepacks all games for the backers into labeled boxes in china, then ships these prepacked boxes to forfillment centers for onwards local delivery. This is a large increase in size required and thus reduces the number per shipping container.
Sacredroach wrote: I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:
This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.
What happened with Zombies? I followed that peripherally while it was funding but ultimately I was only interested in a few unlocked minis so haven't looked back in. Supply chain issues?
Essentially, CMON is no longer subsidizing shipping, and charging actual current rates for the expected box sizes.
As somebody who ships marine parts all day long, I understand how much FedEx and UPS have jacked up rates. CMON's largest error is not telling people what is actually happening, and trying to ignore/sugar coat everything. While it is true that container/shipping prices are "expected" to decrease in the coming months or years, I don't see that as reality. The supply chain is screwed up beyond belief, shippers have been in panic mode for two years, and inflation will just make things worse globally.
What CMON should have done, IMHO, is wait until the MZ pledges were ready to ship and then charge for them. This would have led to more yelling and screaming, but nobody could then accuse them of the dozen nefarious things they may or may not be doing.
Does CMON suck at communication? Yes. Are their shipping charges high? Yes, but sadly in line with actual current rates. Is Cyberpunk 2077 suffering because of all this? Yep. Pity too, as it looks like it may be an interesting game, but not my cup of tea.
Sacredroach wrote: I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:
This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.
What happened with Zombies? I followed that peripherally while it was funding but ultimately I was only interested in a few unlocked minis so haven't looked back in. Supply chain issues?
Essentially, CMON is no longer subsidizing shipping, and charging actual current rates for the expected box sizes.
As somebody who ships marine parts all day long, I understand how much FedEx and UPS have jacked up rates. CMON's largest error is not telling people what is actually happening, and trying to ignore/sugar coat everything. While it is true that container/shipping prices are "expected" to decrease in the coming months or years, I don't see that as reality. The supply chain is screwed up beyond belief, shippers have been in panic mode for two years, and inflation will just make things worse globally.
What CMON should have done, IMHO, is wait until the MZ pledges were ready to ship and then charge for them. This would have led to more yelling and screaming, but nobody could then accuse them of the dozen nefarious things they may or may not be doing.
Does CMON suck at communication? Yes. Are their shipping charges high? Yes, but sadly in line with actual current rates. Is Cyberpunk 2077 suffering because of all this? Yep. Pity too, as it looks like it may be an interesting game, but not my cup of tea.
The largest criticism about MZ shipping was that people where seeing 200-300% increase in costs between real and estimated in only 3 month. In that time wholesale shipping had not gone up by that amount. Combined with very poor communication (as usual for CMON) left a very bad taste.
Sacredroach wrote: I concur. I have backed a ton of CMON projects, but the shipping and lackadaisical attitude CMON seems to have for this project leads me to the following theory:
This is a contractual obligation KS, and they are using it to gauge the fallout from Marvel Zombies.
What happened with Zombies? I followed that peripherally while it was funding but ultimately I was only interested in a few unlocked minis so haven't looked back in. Supply chain issues?
Essentially, CMON is no longer subsidizing shipping, and charging actual current rates for the expected box sizes.
As somebody who ships marine parts all day long, I understand how much FedEx and UPS have jacked up rates. CMON's largest error is not telling people what is actually happening, and trying to ignore/sugar coat everything. While it is true that container/shipping prices are "expected" to decrease in the coming months or years, I don't see that as reality. The supply chain is screwed up beyond belief, shippers have been in panic mode for two years, and inflation will just make things worse globally.
What CMON should have done, IMHO, is wait until the MZ pledges were ready to ship and then charge for them. This would have led to more yelling and screaming, but nobody could then accuse them of the dozen nefarious things they may or may not be doing.
Does CMON suck at communication? Yes. Are their shipping charges high? Yes, but sadly in line with actual current rates. Is Cyberpunk 2077 suffering because of all this? Yep. Pity too, as it looks like it may be an interesting game, but not my cup of tea.
The largest criticism about MZ shipping was that people where seeing 200-300% increase in costs between real and estimated in only 3 month. In that time wholesale shipping had not gone up by that amount. Combined with very poor communication (as usual for CMON) left a very bad taste.
Wholesale shipping had not, retail shipping definitely has. Case in point: We sell trolling motors online. The boxes are 78x16x10. Up until March of this year, that box was $48-$65 depending where in the continental US you needed it shipped. As of our April bill, that same motor now costs $176-$198 for the same locations. As a result, we have gone from free shipping on Trolling Motors to a flat $150. We can eat some, but not all the increase. This price hike by UPS is completely independent of cargo shipping.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
Or they feel like the game is not worth $200. Coin toss.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
So many KS have bankrupted because they tried to subsidize shipping. Honestly, if I'm not paying for it these days, its kind of a red flag against the project as a whole for me.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
So many KS have bankrupted because they tried to subsidize shipping. Honestly, if I'm not paying for it these days, its kind of a red flag against the project as a whole for me.
How do you know they are? Are you guessing from the price they're charging? No sarcasm meant, just curious. Obviously if they say "free" then that would be both obvious and a red flag given the info posted above about doubling prices.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Oh I agree, i don't think CMON are charging much more than the shipping is going to cost them
but other companies that are still subsidising shipping make them look bad as too many folk cant see beyond that and 'free' shipping given by some places when you hit a minimum spend
So many KS have bankrupted because they tried to subsidize shipping. Honestly, if I'm not paying for it these days, its kind of a red flag against the project as a whole for me.
How do you know they are? Are you guessing from the price they're charging? No sarcasm meant, just curious. Obviously if they say "free" then that would be both obvious and a red flag given the info posted above about doubling prices.
I said if I'm not paying. Anyone advertising free shipping is a red flag. Didn't mean to imply I can tell if they're paying part of it or not, just that if I'm not being charged shipping, I'm guessing the project hasn't been thought through to completion. I expect to have to pay and I expect it to be way more than I'd like to pay is all.
> How do you know they are? Are you guessing from the price they're charging?
If it's below what CMON's charging... assume the worst -- er, assume subsidy.
It's even easier to assume shipping charges will go up, because, even before the pandemic, that's what they kept doing. And when the project is delayed? Well, the charges aren't going to wait, including if the stuff is in a warehouse waiting for shipment (Hello, Blacklist Games) in some warehouse (CMON actually sent out Black Plague in two waves, since the first wave of base games was costing them too much in their own warehouse or something).
Of course, "subsidy" can mean many things. The additional money needed for shipping comes out of the project, the additional money comes out from the company itself, or they're gonna have some outside funding from an "investor" or other magic fairy or demon who will ask you to sign in blood. That's the "from least to most risky", although riskiest is "hoping they can find cheaper shipping while costs pile up" or "using all the money for retail product and assuming they'll make so much money then print the SG's" (aka. the Palladium solution). Starting with the project, projects have an advantage that they cut out the middlemen. With Monolith's $100 Conan boardgame, Asmodee distribution was paying them $37 per copy, resulting in a loss on each box in retail. With Cthulhu Wars, expansions went over budget (or something), so they used funds from the base game to pay for them. Some companies, like CMON, Reaper, SJG, have their own retail income, so, if a project needs money, their business has funds. I've read about some other small KS about a dragon-product that tried the "we'll make it up from our retail sales" and that didn't go well, either.
KS is still not a store, and I'm getting the sense that this discussion about shipping assumes their rewards will be delivered (which should happen with CMON, but not necessarily smaller creators). But, returning to Blacklist Games, companies before the pandemic who lowballed their project costs, which often included subsidized shipping, ran out of project funds and put the project in jeopardy.
King of Average posted a video about shipping, but I can't find this comment about subsidy that was posted there. Got this from the Anastyr comments section.
"Hey! Just wanted to let you know that your info on us is 100% wrong. Yes, we have offered significant flat rate shipping on both our website and campaigns, but that is MASSIVELY subsidized by us.
It costs us $27 to ship a copy of both Cloudspire and burncycle base game only. No expansions. No add-ons. Just the base game. Yes, when you look at the $10 we charged on the burncycle Kickstarter campaign that seems crazy - but it’s how we roll. We roll out new IP with a significant discount to help get the IP and game into the world - often at a loss with the hope that once the franchise gets its footing, reprints and future campaigns will be significantly more profitable. The flat rate shipping serves as a massive boon to us in the pledge manager because people add our other games to their order to capitalize on the combined shipping prices. Again, without a huge catalog that people can’t get (for the most part) at retail, this model doesn’t work. We’re very unique in this way.
Let us be absolutely clear - we are incredibly fortunate to be able to operate this way. This is not the norm. Too Many Bones’ success has granted us some rope financially in this area that most other companies out there do not have the luxury of having.
On containers - we launched burncycle before the MASSIVE spike in covid container prices. However we paid well over $20k for each burncycle container, and every container we shipped during covid. Only in the last 2 weeks have containers begun to finally come down. Pre-covid we paid about $4k-6k per container. During covid we paid as much as $27k. In the last couple weeks we have finally seen a drop and recently booked one for $13k. FINALLY. This is literally a change that has happened in the last two weeks. Ocean freight also is taking LONGER right now, as much as 45 days. Which means your assertion that “anyone shipping right now is not paying this” is wrong. Companies needed to book containers two months ago if they’re delivering now.
On top of that - many companies got burned anticipating cheap containers on campaigns pre-covid. Everybody’s nervous now because we have no idea what a container may cost in the future. It may come down. It may shoot back up to $30k. We don’t know. You have to plan for the worst case scenario in many cases, as undercharging on shipping has literally put many companies out of business.
There’s a fairly simple exercise you can do to see that your data isn’t quite adding up. Take your copy of Gloomhaven to UPS tomorrow and see what it costs to send it to the other side of the country. The price will be eye-watering - and that has nothing to do with containers, inefficiencies, scope-creep or packaging. It just straight up costs a lot of money to ship huge boxes right now. The end.
Again, we are fortunate enough to operate differently - but please don’t assume we aren’t eating an astronomical amount of shipping costs. We just increased our prices across the board to account for it, in fact. It’s a massive issue. An issue that CTG has been fortunate enough to handle in a unique way, but an issue that has eaten into our profits significantly just the same. You cannot use that and apply the same model across an entire industry.
If you’d like to have a good faith conversation about this topic with our Director of Marketing, Josh Wielgus - feel free to reach out at marketing@chiptheorygames.com. The bottom line though is that this video is filled with wild and inaccurate assertions and accusations that are really really unfortunate. You’re painting with the broadest of brushes and comparing many things and companies that should not be compared. "
-Josh Wielgus, Director of Marketing
Sam posted this in the KoA comments as well.
Freight is an entirely different business. There is the leg from the manufacture to the port. From the port onto the ship. From the Ship to the port warehouse and from the port to the fulfillment warehouse. That leg of the journey can involve often 6 different companies. Unless you are Walmart and can do contracts a year in advance, this cost can vary week to week.
Game publishers could be transparent and show you the full cost of shipping and scare everyone away or they can bury some of the cost in the price of the pledge.
Game publishers already bury the cost of VAT in the price and claim they have to show EU pricing where what they are doing is basically having non-VAT countries pay the VAT for other backers and thus the consumers who need to pay VAT are being subsidized. In some instances they are also doing this with the shipping price where higher-priced countries are getting subsidized by lower-priced shipping country consumers.
What everyone should know, is there is never ever any really any free shipping. That price is buried in some way into the price. Etsy even ecourages its sellers to bury the shipping price in the product and then claim to consumers they are getting free shipping which is false.
The reality is simply this, pre-COVID, Russion Invasion and Inflation, price fluctuation was relatively low and mostly predictable. Today, all costs to move goods is completely unpredictable.
EDIT: Might as well include this one.
I ship things for a living - auto parts. Whether dealing with actual weight or DIM (Dimensional weight) things have gotten crazy.
Shipped a 33 pound Fuel Tank from NY to FL on Monday - $67.XX. The 7 pound Fuel Line Set that went in a separate box (but had a DIM of 58 pounds) was another $67.00.
20ft Container from Belgium which used to be $4000 is now $14000.
40ft Container from India to NY previously $6000 is now $16000.
China is worse. I see some folks saying China should be the cheapest, but the covid lockdowns combined with the sheer volume of freight leaving China has increased Chinese export Freight costs more than any other region. It cost us nearly $10000 (more actually due to tariffs) just to ship 2 (very heavy) pallets in a consolidated container. Things are nuts right now. Maybe it won't be nuts in a year or two if/when this thing delivers, or maybe it will be worse.
You can't compare shipping in this campaign to shipping you paid in to a campaign a year ago or even a month ago.
I can sit at our FedEx and UPS workstation and watch the shipping rates adjust hour by hour as the Fuel Surcharge ticks up. I quote a customer a shipping cost in the morning and later in the afternoon it has increased by $2.
In the end, everyone -- including myself -- are playing armchair quarterback on a very opaque industry. Creators can make some choices that result in different degrees of risk for the project -- without the backers knowing. Low shipping was attractive pre-pandemic, but now it can mean a project that runs out of money.
Backers are upset that estimates for shipping during the campaign are not accurate for the shipping costs in a PM. Reaper, a 25+ year old miniatures company managed by accountants, has taken the unique stance of not giving an estimate during the campaign, only giving weight and volume for sample purchases, then charging shipping only near fulfilment. I do see how this can further affect production with backers who will only purchase when they know shipping (aka. the $1 club, of which I'm a member and I suspect that shipping prices will still be high and backers will be unhappy. But I do agree this reduces risk, or at least shipping risk, to a project.
Well, we'll see. Hey, who's backing Archon's terrain KS? Only two days left!
The idea that companies aren't transparent is really because the true costs of everything would scare customers away is... Well that would be the best possible interpretation for them, wouldn't it.
I don't know why so many backers have a hard time accepting the facts in these KS comment sections, but the reality is you're paying into a general shipping fund that covers CMON's expenses for shipping and freight of their products. Your estimated actual costs play a role in it, and CMON's need to cover overages and miscalculations also does. They give you an estimate because if they told you the actual cost they want to charge you, you might not buy. They give you a lot of slogans in response to complaints but one slogan they'll never give you is "You're paying the exact cost for us to get your games to your door from the factory," because they don't want to be sued in a class action lawsuit.
You're subsidizing other people's VAT, you're subsidizing the last three campaigns shipping where required, you're likely subsidizing CMON products that go straight to retail. Which is why CMON needs you to pay now possibly a year before it even gets manufactured instead when they'd actually know the costs.
People who need these gaming BUSINESSES to act like Santa Claus in order for them to be psychologically stable should just stay off the comment sections. That would solve a lot of the online battling right there.
It's not "subsidising" or not of freight costs. If you buy a game in a shop then the freight cost is subsidised 100% using this logic. It's all included in the game price.
So sure, you can look at it as CMON charging freight as extra but then in that case, their games are massively overpriced.
No one from Riot Mind are going over to CMON. Several of the writers have said they're willing to work with CMON should they reach out this is from Riot Minds Facebook.
I'm not really a fan of this but CMON really wants to get into RPGs so we'll see.
Some Marvel Zombicide Heroes Resistance info was posted in the comments section by the developer. May pick up a copy for the slightly different (and compatible) dashboards and the new miniatures.
Hello everyone! So, I've noticed some information out there in regards to the Heroes' Resistance box and, being the designer of it, I'd like to try and clarify some points, as the amount of misinformation I'm seeing in various places is just... well, pretty high... though understandable.
First, aside from the box cover, I have yet to see any game images on ANY site that have been correct. In fact, a number of images posted on various retailer sites seems to just be random assets thrown up. An example being one site that posted a Zombie Hulk game piece and a Zombie Captain America Dashboard as being in the box - nether of which are (details below!). So, first and foremost, while I personally don't know why and/or how some of these things are being posted, I would take them all entirely with a grain of salt until official word hits the web (and before anyone asks, we, as a company, don't have much control over what independent retailers post to their sites).
Beyond that, I've seen lots of questions out there based on this inaccurate information that further confuse people, essentially having turned things into one big game of telephone where the bad game info leads to more bad info. So let's nip that immediately with a few points:
1. Heroes' Resistance is a direct-to-retail/mass market product by Spin Master Games, with specific focus towards creating a more compact and approachable version of the standard Marvel Zombies Core Box. None of the rules or mechanics are different from the "standard" version of the game.
2. Most components inside are direct copies or modifications of things that exist mainly in the core boxes. E.g., the tiles are the same art (though there are less tiles total than in the standard core), the zombies and bystanders are standees using new zombie artwork, with only the Super and Zombie Heroes appearing as game pieces, though with different designs. There are no plastic player dashboards (replaced with spinners and trackers), and overall card counts have been cut down to reflect the smaller scope of the product.
3. The ID cards for the Super Heroes in the game ARE cross-compatible and feature slightly modified skillsets.
4. The game ONLY FEATURES HERO MODE. This is a big one because some outlets list that it come with both Zombie and Hero mode - It does not. It's Hero Mode only. There are zero cross-compatible components for playing in Zombie Mode (i.e. no Zombie Cap ID cards, as mentioned above).
5. The game is for 1-4 players, instead of 6 like the the standard game.
6. For the scope of this product - It's not a replacement for the X-Men Resistance Core Box, nor should it be viewed as a "lesser" product. It is simply a different product with a different scope compared to a typical Core Box. Having one doesn't invalidate the other, just depends on what you, as an individual, are after- the full Zombicide experience with nice game pieces, large maps, tons of variety & options, and bigger missions, or a version that, due to its smaller scope and streamlined components, offers a concise and condensed Zombicide experience.
Finally, one other item I want to address, which ties into point number 6, are the concerns about the X-Men Core Box going to retail. While there can be absolutely no guarantees in regards to anything with the state of... well, the world... at the moment, we laid out our plans specifically listing what was and was not Kickstarter Exclusive and nothing has changed since then. Yes, its happened elsewhere in the past that some items received only limited releases and quantities, or didn't make it to retail at all, but by and large most everything we do not list as KS Exclusive eventually makes it to retail. Again, I can't speak on this in depth, or say this is absolutely going to be the case, because it's literally not my department, and I would never want to put words in other people's mouths, but I can say our plans have not changed.
So, I do hope some of that has clarified things for people who are rightly asking questions because of the bad info posted out there. I've definitely seen a number of things that have led to incorrect assumptions being made, and I hope this helped to clear a few things up. I'm sure some better, more official statement is being prepped and is coming, but in the meantime I wanted to share the above.
Tabletop Bellhop tips for Amazon Prime, including sales already available, and hoops you get to jump through for various $10 credits, not just for games.
On discussion on postage / production costs. This just came through to Vampire The Masquerade Chapters Kickstarter. They are short 200k cad $ to ship the game. Have option to purchase new card pack addon to bridge the gap but if not enough take up then they will require all backers to pay the shortfall.
As you already know, the worldwide situation is extremely tense, complex, and fragile. Prices for freight almost quadrupled and shipping and raw material have exploded too. Since the end of the Kickstarter campaign, the pricing of paper and cardboard increased by 52%.
We have used all the funds of the project to create, develop, and produce the game. We have precisely and exactly the amount required to pay for all the production.
However, the portion of the shipping you already paid for now only covers a part of the total cost of shipping. As stated during the Kickstarter campaign, FLYOS does not make/create any profit on the shipping.
The whole logistical chain is so stuck, and prices so volatile, that what was quoted last year is now not enough. FLYOS cannot support such an increase on its own without terrible choices to make. There are too many factors outside of our control affecting the finance of this project: Inflation, gas, containers, and shipping.
Today, FLYOS needs 200,000$ (CAD) to pay for every step of the logistical chain to ensure that you receive your pledge in a reliable way. This represents an average of $25 (CAD) per backer.
HELP
In order to face this challenge, we want to offer the possibility to help us fill this gap by a voluntary contribution. No one likes to be forced to pay more for something already paid for, we understand that.
The pledge manager is reopened for a short period of time. There are 3 available options:
Get the “Item Cards Booster”. This set of 12 unique cards for Vampire: The Masquerade — CHAPTERS are items that will enhance and ease your gaming experience. It has been designed specifically for this extraordinary situation.
Purchase additional add-ons. If you can add a set of dice, card sleeves, or any other element, this makes a huge difference. Remember that add-ons won’t be sold in retail,
Add some voluntary contributions (tips)
Rivet wars has now been acquired by Steamforged Games. Steamforged Games,a leading UK tabletop games developer and publisher is pleased to announce the acquisition of the Rivet Wars IP.
lriginally launched in 2014, Rivet Wars is a miniatures based board game created by video game legend Ted Terranova. Ted Tereanova has worked on Rise of Nations, Age of Empires III, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. The title has been out of print for some time and now has an exciting future at Steamforged Games.
Rich Loxam, Steamforged Games Founder & CEO, said: “Rivet Wars is a cult classic and has long been a favourite amongst the SFG team. It’s been great to work with Ted on the acquisition and we are really excited for the future of the brand.”
fingers crossed they'll follow suit with Dark Age and Wrath of Kings
Rivet wars has now been acquired by Steamforged Games. Steamforged Games,a leading UK tabletop games developer and publisher is pleased to announce the acquisition of the Rivet Wars IP.
lriginally launched in 2014, Rivet Wars is a miniatures based board game created by video game legend Ted Terranova. Ted Tereanova has worked on Rise of Nations, Age of Empires III, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. The title has been out of print for some time and now has an exciting future at Steamforged Games.
Rich Loxam, Steamforged Games Founder & CEO, said: “Rivet Wars is a cult classic and has long been a favourite amongst the SFG team. It’s been great to work with Ted on the acquisition and we are really excited for the future of the brand.”
fingers crossed they'll follow suit with Dark Age and Wrath of Kings
You beat me to it!
DEFINITELY hope they sell Dark Age and Wrath of Kings to someone who will actually do something with them.
Dark Age is probably a little complicated by the whole BRON thing, as well as CMON's #1 having a sentimental attachment to the IP.
Still, Dark Age is a fantastic game, with a host of fantastic miniatures and I'd love to see it live on - even though yes, Everything Dies - so hopefully Everything Dies...again!
Steamforged just announced several old boardgames they've acquired.
I'd be surprised if they go for the wargame as they shut down their most popular one and their other one isn't doing that well as I never hear about it even from Steamforged. Their investors don't seam to care for how low margin wargames are.
- 2nd edition campaign expansion (not a stand alone game)
- 10 missions
- Carnival themed, Copacabana beach tiles, new narrow passage mechanic
- Straight to retail early 2023
- New wound deck - compatible with all 2nd edition - makes the game harder if you use it.
New Zombicide Chronicles RPG book Road to Haven
Licensed Supernatural Character packs - preorder in August - 2nd edition modern rules
- Sam and Dean Winchester
- New weapon cards
- Crowley
- Wendigo Abomination
- more to be revealed later
From the CMON Insider stream the next KS is Dune - from the designers of War of the Ring. KS in a few months - no date given - smaller more focused KS.
Familiar elements from WoTR, new game built on top of it. bigger in scale. Based on the novel not the film but they do have access to the film as well as part of the license. Over 100 minis in core game, Bloodborne scale minis (28mm) smaller than their normal sized minis (32mm) to fit the game board. 2 faction game with some allies. Minis and art design are their own interpretation don't expect film designs. Sand Worm size TBD needs to serve the game.
The Dune designers are the same team/guy that did Ares' War of the Ring (Roberto Di Meglio, Marco Maggi, Francesco Nepitello)? That was closer to 15mm, big dudes-on-a-map game. It was a masterpiece, so if they're following in that mold, it might be fun.
But the models look too detailed for that scale... Is there another War of the Ring I'm not thinking of?
pancakeonions wrote: The Dune designers are the same team/guy that did Ares' War of the Ring (Roberto Di Meglio, Marco Maggi, Francesco Nepitello)? That was closer to 15mm, big dudes-on-a-map game. It was a masterpiece, so if they're following in that mold, it might be fun.
But the models look too detailed for that scale... Is there another War of the Ring I'm not thinking of?
Nope that's the right game alright Francesco Nepitello was on the stream, they said Bloodborne scale but didn't elaborate further so on that basis 28mm as opposed to CMONs more usual 32mm scale. Bloodborne did some minis as groups on single base.
War of the Ring minis are about 25mm tall (to the top of their heads). You could probably increase that to 30-32mm for a normal 28mm scale and fit the minis alright, especially if nobody gets to spawn orcs on Arrakis.
fwiw, the Ares War of the Rings miniatures are these dinky boardgame plastic things. My copy is buried under a shelf of games but they're about the size of a six-sided die.
More importantly, here's my favorite guide to painting the Ares boardgame.
"Section I: deciding to do it
1. Don’t do it. Really. It isn't worth it. It is a lot of work, a whole lot of work. Now, I'm not talking about just spray painting your figures so that you can tell them apart--by all means, go ahead and do that. For the purposes of this article, painting refers only to the real deal--painting your figures by hand with details in multiple colors so that they look really good. It's almost certainly not worth doing--stop reading now, and go do something fun--play the game or something.
Do you still want to do it? OK...
2. Ask yourself why you want to paint your figures. If the answer is, "I want really cool figures like the pictures on the Geek," I refer you to step 1. If it's, "I want to be able to tell apart my figures," go get yourself some spray paint or some paint pens (to mark the bases) or something. Then refer to step 1. The only people who should consider this are those who can honestly answer, "I think it would be really fun to spend a super long time painting my figures." How long is a super long time? I painted these with the help of my girlfriend. We worked on them together, every night, for hours, and it still took the two of us six weeks to finish them. Expect it to take at least twice as long if you are working alone. And are you aware that an expansion with more figures is forthcoming? YOu are committing yourself to painting those as well.
As for CMON's Dune, I haven't played Ares War of the Ring much, but good to see a "new edition" of the game. Will pass because I have War of the Ring, and the worldwide supply chain and shipping issues.
lol. That's some good advice right there! (the figures are pretty low quality - just fine for this type of game, but they are tiny and low detail and it's just not worth it!)
But I have the collectors edition, which makes the idea of painting it moot... Woot!
pancakeonions wrote: The Dune designers are the same team/guy that did Ares' War of the Ring (Roberto Di Meglio, Marco Maggi, Francesco Nepitello)? That was closer to 15mm, big dudes-on-a-map game. It was a masterpiece, so if they're following in that mold, it might be fun.
But the models look too detailed for that scale... Is there another War of the Ring I'm not thinking of?
Nope that's the right game alright Francesco Nepitello was on the stream, they said Bloodborne scale but didn't elaborate further so on that basis 28mm as opposed to CMONs more usual 32mm scale. Bloodborne did some minis as groups on single base.
WotR makes character models work entirely separately from troops (army) units, so this game may have taken this further and simplified armies to tokens like the existing Dune board game.
Some WotR players already do this with their orc, elves etc.
Either way, WotR is one of my all-time favourite games, so I'll definitely get this one somehow.
Shame the The Boys stuff wasn’t based in the comics. Could have had so many alternate options for figures, a lot of characters crop up that are pretty cool. Do like Mantic did for Walking Dead etc
I think at this point in time the Series has a much larger reach and is considerably more popular. Who knows? If they sell well enough they could potentially always follow up with some from the comics. With the Buys and Supernatural sets back to back, I wonder if Eric Kripke might have something to do with it?
Interesting that Dune has gotten a strategy video game and now is getting into the hobby mini painting scene.
Too bad Dune still has the problem that it has always had. The more I learn about Warhammer 40k lore the more cool it becomes. The more I learn about Dune lore the less cool it becomes.
I wish I had never read the latter Dune books and the Dune books Frank Herbert's son wrote. Dear f*cking god.
Best ASOIAF deals I have found recently are from Boardlandia.com they are generally equal to other online sale prices for CMON, but they have a few sets that are $16.00 off regular retail price. Those are usually units that come in the starter sets. Also cheap delivery in the US, not sure about free deliveries. Also they have a dinged and dented section that some times you can score on.
CMON to release Stranger Things game to retail. Not much else known so far.
"Although we do not have too much information other than the announcement, this title was not teased in the usual CMON format, and it is not solely being produced by the publisher alone. Rob Daviau, co-creator of Pandemic Legacy and Cthulhu: Death May Die, announced on the Dice Tower’s Summer Spectacular announcement stream that he is in the midst of creation with CMON, heading to the supernatural town of Hawkins.
And fantastic news for players, the Stranger Things: Upside Down title will be jumping off of crowdfunding and going straight into retail! The game is apparently almost finished and has been heavily inspired by the Netflix show.
but not with the giant animae sword!!
that's my limit for the 
Was Beast a Zombie in the comics
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