GaroRobe wrote: It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
Honestly I think they're probably scared to give intercessors more choices at this point. The second they get special/heavy weapons, that's gonna be it for tacticals. And they know the fans know it.
That's the solution to the bloated codex though. Give intercessors (& incursors & infiltrators) gear and merge the datasheets. Players can pick old style or new style armor and call it a day, no stress about which is better and what's going to be outdated when. No more 40+ bolters, no more super-extra-minor variant (+1 to strength or damage or AP) to various other guns. That has a place on Necromunda scale games, but not 40k scale games.
They're remaking mk6 marines and talking openly about the interchangeability between systems for the various vehicles (Deimos rhino and Sicaran). They missed the boat on going primaris-only, it'd be really dumb to do it now, rather than really shoot HH sales into the stratosphere.
That's never going to happen now I think. Firstborn Marines have been established in the lore as a scant resource, while Primaris is more like how Firstborn were before the Heresy - There's practically an unlimited amount of them, even their force organization is more like how the Legions were than how Firstborn are in M41. I think GW will want to keep this distinction alive.
...the distinction that they're more like Heresy legions? And that will keep them from encouraging 40k sales of... Heresy legions?
I'm confused.
That's certainly an option I hadn't considered, though. Pure bolter squads (which is what these incursors/infiltrators and also intercessors are) and pure special weapons squads in both systems, and (again) everyone can just use whatever armor style they like and merge the datasheets. Bob can just throw out the codex astartes, pull a mea culpa and reorganize the legions.
(I'm also confused by the idea that there's a unlimited amount of Primaris (despite roughly sticking to chapter numbers), but GW numbers never make sense, so whatever to that).
GaroRobe wrote: It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
GaroRobe wrote: It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
And a Traitor Enforcer.
Isn't that just what they're calling the Commissar, going by the Sunday article?
GaroRobe wrote: It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
You can see the comms man as well
And a Traitor Enforcer.
Isn't that just what they're calling the Commissar, going by the Sunday article?
Looks like a lot of special weapons are available, too. In the article I could spot a flamer and a melta, if the krieg Set is anything to go by than a grenade launcher should be included as well (plasma already previewed earlier). I'm a bit confused that no pistol+close combat weapon was shown yet, this was a prominent weapon option in Blackstone fortress. Only pure close combat was shown for now.
I'm definitely getting those traitor guardsmen, time to fully muster a blood pact force
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
Have another bolter variant: stalker marksman bolt carbine
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
Marksman Bolt Carbines are already a thing on Infiltrators...
"Stalker" is...eh. It's always been a weird one being alternately described as both a type of ammunition and a pattern of boltgun.
I wish they'd solidify it being one or the other for a definitive answer but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Or just make "Stalker Rounds" into a stratagem or a wargear upgrade for KT.
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
Short version; “sniper” is a tactical role that usually gets special training and equipment while “carbine” is a general size class of gun somewhere between pistol and full rifle. They aren’t self-contradictory when used together (not like “bolt shotgun” anyway) but making a carbine accurate enough for sniper work is quite a feat of engineering.
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
With hard work and perseverance we can have 6 word bolter variants by 2030.
Looking forward to the Heavy Stalker Sniper Revolver Bolt Carbine
Have another bolter variant:
stalker marksman bolt carbine
On the one hand, I hate it. KT is actually the place for this level of gun differentiation, but I hate that its going to add to the bolter Jenga tower in regular 40k as well.
Not necessarily. This new KT member is (I think) supposed to represent the Marksmen Target-Tracker upgrade you get in the new Vanguard Spearhead army of renown for Incursor squads. That model still uses the occular bolt carbine stats for their weapon, but gives the squad a new keyword that a new strat keys off of. That's not to say SM 2.0 codex wont change things...
'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
Well as a self-proclaimed gun expert, it's not wrong at all. Barrel length only buys you muzzle velocity (increases length of time bullet is "pushed" by propellant gases). That can increase your effective range, it doesn't inherently increase your accuracy. Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
KillerAngel wrote: Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
I read this as the USMC was getting bolt ammunition....
KillerAngel wrote: Real world example: The new(ish) M38 designated marksman rifle the USMC uses only has a 16.5" barrel, which is solidly in the carbine barrel length territory for the AR platform.
Of course, bolts are rocket powered, yada yada ya...
I read this as the USMC was getting bolt ammunition....
Ha! Not as far fetched as you might think. There is already rocket assisted 155mm rounds, and they're working on a ramjet powered variant to increase efficiency. Miniaturize that and make it cost effective, and you might have something. Not sure how useful that something would be, but maybe you could squeeze 20in barrel muzzle velocities out of something like an 8inch barrel.
The closest analogue to the rocket round in concept (increased muzzle velocity for short barrels) would be the new three piece ammunition SIG invented and won the Army's new M4/M249 replacement contract with. 6.8x51 (277 Fury). Check it out, it uses a stainless steel base to increase pressure rating, and allows for thinner brass wall to reduce overall round weight.
Voss wrote: 'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
And you'd be completely wrong because carbine is just a rifle with shortened barrel. So, any sniper rifle with short barrel would be effectively a carbine, having slightly shorter range but being lighter and easier to handle/aim.
Bolts are two stage. First charge kicks it up to speed, second (gyrojet) kicks in once it's in flight and is the 'rocket' part. That's the main difference between bolt carbine (aka ordinary bolter) and bolt rifle, more powerful first charge in the latter to give it greater range and penetration.
Wake me up when whatever clown writing phobos rules will finally get a clue and give them power weapon access. I mean, even scouts have them, despite not having power armour, you'd think the closest thing to an assault squad a primaris company has would have them too, but nooo, that would make too much sense and might accidentally sell some models
no, the main disadvantage of a sniper carbine would not the shorter range but because of the shorter barrel you get a brighter muzzle flash (as not the whole powder burns down inside the barrel), so you would be less concealed/easier to spot
Voss wrote: 'Sniper carbine' makes my brain hurt, but I'm not gun expert enough to say its entirely wrong.
And you'd be completely wrong because carbine is just a rifle with shortened barrel. So, any sniper rifle with short barrel would be effectively a carbine, having slightly shorter range but being lighter and easier to handle/aim.
Bolts are two stage. First charge kicks it up to speed, second (gyrojet) kicks in once it's in flight and is the 'rocket' part. That's the main difference between bolt carbine (aka ordinary bolter) and bolt rifle, more powerful first charge in the latter to give it greater range and penetration.
Wake me up when whatever clown writing phobos rules will finally get a clue and give them power weapon access. I mean, even scouts have them, despite not having power armour, you'd think the closest thing to an assault squad a primaris company has would have them too, but nooo, that would make too much sense and might accidentally sell some models
The Sergeant for Reivers definitely needs Power Weapon access, and Reivers just need something like +1 to wound infantry or similar.
Having a Phobos kill team I thought the obvious choice would be to include an eliminator as the sniper specialist, not for GW! if we can have reivers which aren't in the kit why not eliminators?
Traitor Guard sprues from land of tomorrow (spoilered for size):
Spoiler:
I still think they look worse than monopose models from Blackstone Fortress but at least there is good amount of bits to choose from. I count around 40 heads (including the "Specialist" sprue).
jullevi wrote: Traitor Guard sprues from land of tomorrow (spoilered for size):
Spoiler:
I still think they look worse than monopose models from Blackstone Fortress but at least there is good amount of bits to choose from. I count around 40 heads (including the "Specialist" sprue).
I count;
14 Lasguns
4 various CCWs Big Ol' Mace
Shotgun
Sniper Rifle
Plasma Gun
Melta Gun
Bolter
Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Bolt Pistol
Plasma Pistol
Laspistol
Power Axe
Power Sword.
Hmm. Standard array of guard weapons. Melta, plasma, flamer, grenade launcher and what I think is a sniper rifle (scoped, second from the bottom on the second sprue) and bolter, plasma & bolt pistol and powersword or chainsword for the sergeant.
What's probably a vox (2nd backpack on the first sprue) and then extra CC stuff because chaos.
I'm wondering how compatible all this is with other kits, including krieg, cadians and the chaos cultists.
Worth mentioning though that some of the things you're labeling as Sergeant options? They might be for a 2nd in command, ala the Krieg list's "Confidant".
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think these Traitor Guardsmen might have been what The Leak List had as a "new Cadian kit".
Nah. Remember, the leaker listed both Traitor Guardsmen and the New Cadians separately. Settle down Kan.
But whoah! That's a lot of options. You're definitely going to be able to find some heads that you want to use.
To be perfectly honest I think most of the main regiments could get just a kit like this and then it would be job done. Especially with like 40 heads and other spares in the set would make conversions of other kits really easy
Voss wrote: Hmm. Standard array of guard weapons. Melta, plasma, flamer, grenade launcher and what I think is a sniper rifle (scoped, second from the bottom on the second sprue) and bolter, plasma & bolt pistol and powersword or chainsword for the sergeant.
What's probably a vox (2nd backpack on the first sprue) and then extra CC stuff because chaos.
I'm wondering how compatible all this is with other kits, including krieg, cadians and the chaos cultists.
Yup: "standard array of Traitor Guard weapons". Oh yeah, R&H are coming back.
I’d really like if the CSM book had an option of Elite Traitor Guard and for Troops traitor guard (kind of like the Corsairs in the Eldar book). It would be nice to be able to run a proper “Lost and the Damned” army again.
More on topic, those spruces look tasty- I have a feeling these guys will become my main Kill Team.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think these Traitor Guardsmen might have been what The Leak List had as a "new Cadian kit".
Nah. Remember, the leaker listed both Traitor Guardsmen and the New Cadians separately. Settle down Kan.
But whoah! That's a lot of options. You're definitely going to be able to find some heads that you want to use.
To be perfectly honest I think most of the main regiments could get just a kit like this and then it would be job done. Especially with like 40 heads and other spares in the set would make conversions of other kits really easy
The Krieg kit is very similar, just with more fiddly bits (esp the tiny bayonets) in place of the close combat weapons. Not quite as many spare heads, though (probably due to the backpacks). The KT kits are bringing a fair bit of options. I doubt the cultist kit will be quite so robust... it may be what's feared: just pistols and ccw weapons, no rifles or special weapons.
I'm surprised the sniper and vox caster are part of the "main" sprue and not the kill team upgrades. But the guy lugging a bunch of grenades is on the KT sprue.
With all the extra heads on the KT sprue, I wish they had given the doctor another arm. The syringe hand is great, but the reaching hand isn't. It's not even wearing a glove. If the cleaver hand was right handed, it would have made a nice replacement
If you leave off the trophy rack spike back things, there doesn’t seem to be any chaos specific markings on the traitor guard. They look like they could be used as regular guard that have been in the field longer or are from a more feral world or even recruited from hive gangs. Hopefully we will see heavy weapon teams for these and the Krieg. Officers/command would be nice but could probably be made from the basic sprue.
They should stop wasting money making upgrade sprue with the same boring weapons, this time it's the SM, at least throw in something wild like the Nachmund CSM upgrade sprue
Either/Or wrote: If you leave off the trophy rack spike back things, there doesn’t seem to be any chaos specific markings on the traitor guard. They look like they could be used as regular guard that have been in the field longer or are from a more feral world or even recruited from hive gangs. Hopefully we will see heavy weapon teams for these and the Krieg. Officers/command would be nice but could probably be made from the basic sprue.
There are some Eight Pointed Stars molded onto torsos and hanging off guns.
The guns are easy to clean up, the torsos are possible but harder.
I think the worst one would be the big shield but also the easiest to justify as battle damage/
Ordered 2x boxes. Terrain is a win, I could do with the incursors for my army, and the bit will just be a bonus to make them a bit more unique. The second phobos kill team can go into my 10 year old nephews BT army that I build and paint for him, and finally the traitor guard will all get used by me one way or another.
Quick question.
Is it possible to get the rules for the new kill teams without buying the relevant campaign book?
I'm trying to calculate the cost difference between the box and the components separately tly.
Not without resorting to means that are banned from discussion here, as far as I know.
They don’t have digital editions or anything, nor is there a kill team app, though it seems like an obvious gap in the market.
usernamesareannoying wrote: Man 210 sucks but it’s pretty standard i guess.
Easily 100 for terrain and then 50 for each team
Just sucks they don’t throw a bone and discount it as a bundle
It does represent a decent discount over the standalone cost.
+ The MSRP of the terrain alone is $220 USD.
+ The Incursors are $60.
+ The Traitor command price is still TBD, but likely between $38-$55.
+ The Chaos Guard price is also TBD, but will likely be somewhere in the $50-$60
It's odd how close it is to the terrain bundle for this line. You basically trade in one $80 bundle of walls and fences for $160 in figures, for $10 less.
flaherty wrote: It does represent a decent discount over the standalone cost.
+ The MSRP of the terrain alone is $220 USD.
+ The Incursors are $60.
+ The Traitor command price is still TBD, but likely between $38-$55.
+ The Chaos Guard price is also TBD, but will likely be somewhere in the $50-$60
It's odd how close it is to the terrain bundle for this line. You basically trade in one $80 bundle of walls and fences for $160 in figures, for $10 less.
I suspect the whole point of the completely flying rodent gak insane priced Warzone Fronteris box was to make this marginally less insane Kill Team box look like a good deal in comparison. Kinda like raising prices just before Black Friday so you can put a bigger fake discount on stuff.
flaherty wrote: It does represent a decent discount over the standalone cost.
+ The MSRP of the terrain alone is $220 USD.
+ The Incursors are $60.
+ The Traitor command price is still TBD, but likely between $38-$55.
+ The Chaos Guard price is also TBD, but will likely be somewhere in the $50-$60
It's odd how close it is to the terrain bundle for this line. You basically trade in one $80 bundle of walls and fences for $160 in figures, for $10 less.
I suspect the whole point of the completely flying rodent gak insane priced Warzone Fronteris box was to make this marginally less insane Kill Team box look like a good deal in comparison. Kinda like raising prices just before Black Friday so you can put a bigger fake discount on stuff.
No, the whole pricing scheme isn't even vaguely that coherent.
Consider this and the Ash Wastes box, their various component breakdowns (anyone really think the minimal Ash Wastes terrain is worth $240?) and the $299 HH box coming next month (which is 40 marines, 10 terminators, a big tank and a dread. Oh, and rules and whatever).
Somehow they vastly over-value terrain in individual, but have no problem selling it for far, far less in a combo box. (As in seriously less than half the price in this case). I'd vaguely grasp a hint of a plan if they burned through the boxes before they repriced it inidividually (although that would be crappy behavior), but they sold the big Fronteris box (which was a decent deal compared to individual pricing) and the individual terrain simultaneously and now undercut the value of the terrain again by repackaging it with 'early access' to models. This looks like there is no plan, like KT has an entirely separate marketing team that didn't coordinate with whoever set the prices the first time.
I certainly wouldn't have picked Fronteris big box if I had guessed that the scenery was going to be included in Kill Team this soon. As I don't want any more Fronteris terrain, looks like I am skipping this one and invest funds into Horus Heresy or pick Kill Team Chalnath from FLGS bargain bin instead.
No, the whole pricing scheme isn't even vaguely that coherent.
Consider this and the Ash Wastes box, their various component breakdowns (anyone really think the minimal Ash Wastes terrain is worth $240?) and the $299 HH box coming next month (which is 40 marines, 10 terminators, a big tank and a dread. Oh, and rules and whatever).
Somehow they vastly over-value terrain in individual...
It makes sense if you understand how they work out sales prices. They are a combination of production & design costs versus expected / forecasted sales in the products lifetime.
Despite having fairly similar production costs to the items in the KT set, the new Heresy kits will easily outsell those terrain kits over the next decade, likely by a significant order of magnitude. Even if the HH launch box goes out of production there's still a guaranteed audience of customers buying the individual kits as they cover both main factions in the game.
Meanwhile a much smaller fraction of GW customers are building their own tables with plastic terrain, let alone with this specific terrain.
As an example; if it costs GW around £50k to design & produce the contents for each of these boxes. They may expect to see £100k in sales for the KT set but £400k sales for the HH set. Guess which receives more aggressive pricing?
Nevelon wrote: Wait, these don’t come with rules? My interest just went down significantly.
Probably a good thing for my budget.
No, these boxes don't come with the full Kill Team rules. Here are the relevant passages from the store page:
1x 96 page Kill Team: Moroch Rules manual: take the fight to the corrupted world of Moroch, a key defensive point in the Nachmund Gauntlet, with background material for this stronghold world and the forces that clash over it. This manual also includes new rules, datacards, and background tables for the Phobo Strike Team and Blooded kill teams, as well as additional killzone rules and Shadow Operations missions set on this war-torn planet.
You'll need a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team Core Book to make full use of this supplement.
The very first box, Octarius, had the rule book and gaming aids to go with the models and terrain in the box. The following versus boxes are only models and terrain along with a book that has rules for the included teams and kill zone. If you want the rules for Kill Team, you'll either need the separate rule book or the Octarius-derived starter set.
Which sucks as GW happily prices the Kill Team boxes close to the first one (or at its price after the price increase a few months back), but you don't get the game and have to pay around a third more on top of it to get into Kill Team if you want to add the rules and aids to your new box. This has the side effect that the Kill Team boxes, Octarius excluded, don't actually offer much of a discount if the included book is useless to you, or you have to complement it with another purchase. You're basically required to have a use for everything included or else you're likely better off waiting three months for the individual kits.
Pricing aside, it doesn't make sense for GW to continue to put the Kill Team Core rules in the quarterly Warzone box. Ongoing players already have the rules and don't need another copy every quarter. It's a waste of space, weight, and cost and thus profit to include it.
As for the pricing difference between a big battle box and the individual kits, just about everything in life is more expensive the less you buy. Six single sodas are more expensive than a 6-pack. Two 6-packs are more expensive than a 12-pack. That doesn't mean you are being gouged when you purchase a single soda at a store that sells all 3 sizes.
Nevelon wrote: Wait, these don’t come with rules? My interest just went down significantly.
Probably a good thing for my budget.
No, these boxes don't come with the full Kill Team rules. Here are the relevant passages from the store page:
1x 96 page Kill Team: Moroch Rules manual: take the fight to the corrupted world of Moroch, a key defensive point in the Nachmund Gauntlet, with background material for this stronghold world and the forces that clash over it. This manual also includes new rules, datacards, and background tables for the Phobo Strike Team and Blooded kill teams, as well as additional killzone rules and Shadow Operations missions set on this war-torn planet.
You'll need a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team Core Book to make full use of this supplement.
The very first box, Octarius, had the rule book and gaming aids to go with the models and terrain in the box. The following versus boxes are only models and terrain along with a book that has rules for the included teams and kill zone. If you want the rules for Kill Team, you'll either need the separate rule book or the Octarius-derived starter set.
Which sucks as GW happily prices the Kill Team boxes close to the first one (or at its price after the price increase a few months back), but you don't get the game and have to pay around a third more on top of it to get into Kill Team if you want to add the rules and aids to your new box. This has the side effect that the Kill Team boxes, Octarius excluded, don't actually offer much of a discount if the included book is useless to you, or you have to complement it with another purchase. You're basically required to have a use for everything included or else you're likely better off waiting three months for the individual kits.
It’s a shame. I had pretty much talked myself into getting into KT. But the cost for this box was stretching things as it is, and shelling out the extra cash for the rule, bits&bobs, etc is just too much. And yes, I know there is ebay and other sources.
I don’t mind paying GW for models. But the rules get me. Especially as I’m a slow painter. By the time I get a force ready to table, the game might be dead. Especially the specialists.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alextroy wrote: Pricing aside, it doesn't make sense for GW to continue to put the Kill Team Core rules in the quarterly Warzone box. Ongoing players already have the rules and don't need another copy every quarter. It's a waste of space, weight, and cost and thus profit to include it.
As for the pricing difference between a big battle box and the individual kits, just about everything in life is more expensive the less you buy. Six single sodas are more expensive than a 6-pack. Two 6-packs are more expensive than a 12-pack. That doesn't mean you are being gouged when you purchase a single soda at a store that sells all 3 sizes.
I understand it would be wasteful for players already in the game, but having cheep rules in a core box helps lower the cost of entry into the game. Is it worth reducing profits a little for older players to get fresh blood?
If you want the rules, tokens plus two teams, you can get the way cheaper starter set. I'm actually glad that I don't get more worthless paper with the box as I don't even play the game. I know this is a bit of a "I got mine" attitude but as the starter box with the excellent Krieg and Ork Kommandos exists it shouldn't be too difficult to get an acceptable entry into Kill Team.
Nevelon wrote: Wait, these don’t come with rules? My interest just went down significantly.
Probably a good thing for my budget.
No, these boxes don't come with the full Kill Team rules. Here are the relevant passages from the store page:
1x 96 page Kill Team: Moroch Rules manual: take the fight to the corrupted world of Moroch, a key defensive point in the Nachmund Gauntlet, with background material for this stronghold world and the forces that clash over it. This manual also includes new rules, datacards, and background tables for the Phobo Strike Team and Blooded kill teams, as well as additional killzone rules and Shadow Operations missions set on this war-torn planet.
You'll need a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team Core Book to make full use of this supplement.
The very first box, Octarius, had the rule book and gaming aids to go with the models and terrain in the box. The following versus boxes are only models and terrain along with a book that has rules for the included teams and kill zone. If you want the rules for Kill Team, you'll either need the separate rule book or the Octarius-derived starter set.
Which sucks as GW happily prices the Kill Team boxes close to the first one (or at its price after the price increase a few months back), but you don't get the game and have to pay around a third more on top of it to get into Kill Team if you want to add the rules and aids to your new box. This has the side effect that the Kill Team boxes, Octarius excluded, don't actually offer much of a discount if the included book is useless to you, or you have to complement it with another purchase. You're basically required to have a use for everything included or else you're likely better off waiting three months for the individual kits.
It’s a shame. I had pretty much talked myself into getting into KT. But the cost for this box was stretching things as it is, and shelling out the extra cash for the rule, bits&bobs, etc is just too much. And yes, I know there is ebay and other sources.
I don’t mind paying GW for models. But the rules get me. Especially as I’m a slow painter. By the time I get a force ready to table, the game might be dead. Especially the specialists.
I've been there with Chalnath. I eventually bought it when I saw it in stock for a reasonable discount, but without the Kill Team rules I have no incentive to look into the game and expand my choices with future purchases. With the shoddy quality of their rules I'm certainly not going to buy any rules from GW unless they're in a discounted bundle box where I can talk myself into buying it for the models, the thing GW is actually good at, and getting the rules as a free bonus along the way. It's the only reason why I have the current 40k and AoS rules.
Yeah, it's a shame. You'd think they'd want to get as many people into the game as possible to get more model sales, but apparently book sales must really have a big impact on GW's bottom line for them to continue selling rules as they have in the recent past.
Nevelon wrote: I understand it would be wasteful for players already in the game, but having cheep rules in a core box helps lower the cost of entry into the game. Is it worth reducing profits a little for older players to get fresh blood?
yeah, but those are not core boxes but expansion boxes for those already in the game
the same way army boxes (combat patrol or whatever they are called now) don't come with the core rules, because they are not meant for new people starting the game but for exiting players to expand
so those that are already playing Kill Team and are now waiting for their faction to get an actual Kill Team outside the Index, this is the box (if you cannot wait for the stand alone release)
Those Traitor Guardsmen are amazing, that's one sweet kit. Its a missed opportunity that they did include a traitor decal sheet. I'll definitely be getting some when they get a solo box.
Sersi wrote: Those Traitor Guardsmen are amazing, that's one sweet kit. Its a missed opportunity that they did include a traitor decal sheet. I'll definitely be getting some when they get a solo box.
Not many places to stick decals. :( Hopefully, when the inevitable Traitoris armour comes along, there'll be a sheet then.
Nevelon wrote: I don’t mind paying GW for models. But the rules get me. Especially as I’m a slow painter. By the time I get a force ready to table, the game might be dead. Especially the specialists.
Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint - if you're a slow painter, and unsure when you'll get the teams completed, there's an argument that you're better off not getting the rules with the box, but getting them later on. At least that way, when you are ready to get into the game, you can be sure the rules you pick up at that point haven't gone out of date due to an edition change...
Sersi wrote: Those Traitor Guardsmen are amazing, that's one sweet kit. Its a missed opportunity that they did include a traitor decal sheet. I'll definitely be getting some when they get a solo box.
Not many places to stick decals. :( Hopefully, when the inevitable Traitoris armour comes along, there'll be a sheet then.
True, those shoulder pads are tiny. I was thinking some half chaos glyphs for the breast plates or cloaks; like they've painted on. They can be free-handed, but I'd still be nice though.
alextroy wrote: Pricing aside, it doesn't make sense for GW to continue to put the Kill Team Core rules in the quarterly Warzone box. Ongoing players already have the rules and don't need another copy every quarter. It's a waste of space, weight, and cost and thus profit to include it.
As for the pricing difference between a big battle box and the individual kits, just about everything in life is more expensive the less you buy. Six single sodas are more expensive than a 6-pack. Two 6-packs are more expensive than a 12-pack. That doesn't mean you are being gouged when you purchase a single soda at a store that sells all 3 sizes.
I understand it would be wasteful for players already in the game, but having cheep rules in a core box helps lower the cost of entry into the game. Is it worth reducing profits a little for older players to get fresh blood?
I think from GW's perspective, it is better to have the new players shell out for a separate rulebook rather than have players who already have a rulebook flooding the secondary market with the free rulebooks they got via the Warzone boxes.
That and they make a Starter Set, so really, if you want a rulebook, you've got two options.
If they didn't make one, and the only box you could get was whatever 'seasonal' box was on sale at the time, then yeah, not having the rulebook would be stupid.
But, again, they have a book available, and the actual starter box has one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That and they make a Starter Set, so really, if you want a rulebook, you've got two options.
If they didn't make one, and the only box you could get was whatever 'seasonal' box was on sale at the time, then yeah, not having the rulebook would be stupid.
But, again, they have a book available, and the actual starter box has one.
This sums up exactly what I was gearing up to say.
They would lose money on these boxes if the rules were in them. Look at all the existing players wanting the box.
New players (particularly going into a GW) are gonna be guided to the Starter.
(And if you like this box and it’s your first - Box plus separate Rulebook is the way.)
Nevelon wrote: I don’t mind paying GW for models. But the rules get me. Especially as I’m a slow painter. By the time I get a force ready to table, the game might be dead. Especially the specialists.
Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint - if you're a slow painter, and unsure when you'll get the teams completed, there's an argument that you're better off not getting the rules with the box, but getting them later on. At least that way, when you are ready to get into the game, you can be sure the rules you pick up at that point haven't gone out of date due to an edition change...
I feel like the current Kill Team rules, and the rules for all the factions in these boxed releases, are solid. Yeah, if you want to get into things and play competitively at a later point you're better off waiting, but if you just want to play with friends/family I think the current ruleset and what you get in these boxes is pretty much evergreen. There's not huge balance issues or anything. I think they make a nice little self-contained game that'll be playable for years to come regardless of if a new ruleset comes out.
I feel like the current Kill Team rules, and the rules for all the factions in these boxed releases, are solid.
and the White Dwarf teams; my Warpcoven Thousand Sons are super fun to play and I think I have a current win rate of maybe slightly over 50%. The last campaign game I played, while I annihilated the guard player but he still won by 3 VP's (despite me having 7 more battle honours than him!). The 10 fully realized teams (plus hopefully the 2 upcoming) are all very well balanced (veteran guard, kommando, pathfinders, novitiates, legionaries, corsair voidscarred, warpcoven, hunter clade, void-dancer troupe, wyrmblade, plus phobos strike team and blooded). KT2021 is probably the most fun/balanced in-print GW ruleset outside of Middle-earth SBG.
note relating to my experience: my group only plays Narrative with all teams currently in spec ops campaigns (some in their second).
jullevi wrote: I certainly wouldn't have picked Fronteris big box if I had guessed that the scenery was going to be included in Kill Team this soon. As I don't want any more Fronteris terrain, looks like I am skipping this one and invest funds into Horus Heresy or pick Kill Team Chalnath from FLGS bargain bin instead.
There’s a GW bargain bin in a Finnish LGS? Tell me more
But yes, this is a pass for me as well, I just don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling I need to get to part with this sort of cash. Tbh, I didn’t get it with Nachmund, initially, either, but when I figured out a use for part of the legion upgrade sprue, I had to go for it…
Having done my fair share of 14 guardsmen loaded with krak grenades to their teeth, this is a good change. Also fits the general paradigm of no doubling up on specialists, which many grenadiers effectively become.
Maybe it's a necessary balance change but it's a really stupid idea from a fluff point of view. Grenades are standard-issue equipment, why does my entire squad have to share a single frag grenade? What's next, only half the models can have a lasgun, the other half have to pick up lasguns once the first wave dies?
CadianSgtBob wrote: Maybe it's a necessary balance change but it's a really stupid idea from a fluff point of view. Grenades are standard-issue equipment, why does my entire squad have to share a single frag grenade? What's next, only half the models can have a lasgun, the other half have to pick up lasguns once the first wave dies?
I agree. Ideally, grenades should have been dealt with a different in-game mechanic than the current implementation. The current implementation seems like a failure if it results in grenades being the superior weapon in most situations. Elite troops all carry extra pistols and grenades, and this should somehow reflect their effectiveness in-game, as it is now, they need to be nerfed or they are "too good" LOL
CadianSgtBob wrote: Maybe it's a necessary balance change but it's a really stupid idea from a fluff point of view. Grenades are standard-issue equipment, why does my entire squad have to share a single frag grenade? What's next, only half the models can have a lasgun, the other half have to pick up lasguns once the first wave dies?
wow I know this is from real life russia but that sounds perfect for a 40k regement and honestly death corps would fit that nicely. What was the book where the death korps fought the necrons and as they where being atomized they passed around a single melta gun so they could keep killing? Was a pretty cool scene.
Boosykes wrote: What was the book where the death korps fought the necrons and as they where being atomized they passed around a single melta gun so they could keep killing? Was a pretty cool scene.
CadianSgtBob wrote: Maybe it's a necessary balance change but it's a really stupid idea from a fluff point of view. Grenades are standard-issue equipment, why does my entire squad have to share a single frag grenade? What's next, only half the models can have a lasgun, the other half have to pick up lasguns once the first wave dies?
I agree. Ideally, grenades should have been dealt with a different in-game mechanic than the current implementation. The current implementation seems like a failure if it results in grenades being the superior weapon in most situations. Elite troops all carry extra pistols and grenades, and this should somehow reflect their effectiveness in-game, as it is now, they need to be nerfed or they are "too good" LOL
The current implementation is good, though. It gives grenades a solid niche where they shine and their damage output is relevant. Their range and limited availability, on the other hand, means they aren't the optimal move in every scenario during the game. This is a nice example of a limited use item that works fine. In a game of KT, which doesn't simulate careful military action but rather emulates fast and violent war fiction action scenes, it's better to have the big explosives as a spice here and there. Same reason why most comprehensive teams are made of unique gunners and specialists instead of spamming everyone with similar loadouts. In this design paradigm, it fits right in.
Sherrypie wrote: The current implementation is good, though. It gives grenades a solid niche where they shine and their damage output is relevant. Their range and limited availability, on the other hand, means they aren't the optimal move in every scenario during the game. This is a nice example of a limited use item that works fine. In a game of KT, which doesn't simulate careful military action but rather emulates fast and violent war fiction action scenes, it's better to have the big explosives as a spice here and there. Same reason why most comprehensive teams are made of unique gunners and specialists instead of spamming everyone with similar loadouts. In this design paradigm, it fits right in.
It's only good if you ignore the lore. The lore has it well established that special/heavy weapons are limited to a small number per squad but grenades are standard issue. And from a modeling point of view many units have grenades shown on every model. So the fluff says I have a squad with frag grenades for everyone, the models all have visible frag grenades, and somehow I'm only allowed to throw a single grenade for the entire fight and I have to decide before the fight begins which member of the squad is allowed to use theirs? And if that member dies before throwing the grenade the rest of the squad has to shrug and say "well, it would be nice to use these grenades I'm carrying but we don't have all the right paperwork filled out"?
Sherrypie wrote: Having done my fair share of 14 guardsmen loaded with krak grenades to their teeth, this is a good change. Also fits the general paradigm of no doubling up on specialists, which many grenadiers effectively become.
Was a necessary crutch for team like regular guard though.
The obvious faction to face in a Space Hulk themed scenario would be Genestealers, but god, I really hope we wouldn't be a situation where the terrible Genestealer sprue just gets a crappy upgrade sprue instead of getting replaced entirely.
Unless we get eight older style backs to replace the hive fleet carapaces on it. I could probably live with that.
I really hope we wouldn't be a situation where the terrible Genestealer sprue just gets a crappy upgrade sprue instead of getting replaced entirely.
And probably this is exactly what we will get after a mighty 1 model release for the Tyranid codex, and that is assuming we will get anything new for nids at all.
2D Kill team with Inquisition sounds very promising if that indeed is what is coming.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That said, we have had our hopes raised many times we will get a proper Inquisition release and never have since 3rd edition.
Given that the description of the Cyber-altered Task Unit mentions "quartermasters," I'm more inclined to think it's going to be some flavor of Astra Militarum.
At a guess? We'll be looking at a box that features Tempestus Scions or Kasrkins going up against Tyranids (my money's on Genestealers), with the terrain along the lines of the Necromunda Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls set and a cardboard gaming mat.
The Phazer wrote: Actually, the more I look at it the more I think that's an Ecclesiarchy logo rather than an Inquisition one.
Yes, that's Ecclesiarchy. Which is kind of odd because as stahly said the base matches the new Kasrkin and I can't think of a good reason why the Imperial Guard should draw their reconnaissance equipment from the Ecclesiarchy instead of the Mechanicus.
BlueGrassGamer wrote: Gotta say, I like the C.A.T from the 2009/2014 Space Hulk game way better than I like this one...
I like both. This one looks like a little surveyors instrument on tracks. And they are the closest things to hobby projects for tech priests, so it makes sense that they vary in design.
The Phazer wrote: Actually, the more I look at it the more I think that's an Ecclesiarchy logo rather than an Inquisition one.
Yes, that's Ecclesiarchy. Which is kind of odd because as stahly said the base matches the new Kasrkin and I can't think of a good reason why the Imperial Guard should draw their reconnaissance equipment from the Ecclesiarchy instead of the Mechanicus.
Kasrkin upgrade sprue has a plastic Ministorum Preacher on it? Would let them dump the metal one.
The Phazer wrote: Actually, the more I look at it the more I think that's an Ecclesiarchy logo rather than an Inquisition one.
Yes, that's Ecclesiarchy. Which is kind of odd because as stahly said the base matches the new Kasrkin and I can't think of a good reason why the Imperial Guard should draw their reconnaissance equipment from the Ecclesiarchy instead of the Mechanicus.
Kasrkin upgrade sprue has a plastic Ministorum Preacher on it? Would let them dump the metal one.
Would be odd, but possible I guess. The thing that bothers me with this idea is that even though Guard has Preachers, it also has Enginseers, so again the question is why would they let the Emperor cultists handle the techy stuff instead of the Omnissiah cultists?
I could see an upgrade sprue containing preacher-like upgrade bits for a Kasrkin because someone decided that they train their own military chaplains now or something. But again why wouldn't they want a tech guy for that instead?
I'm probably overthinking this. Sisters send teenagers on covert ops and they are all cosplayers. I'm probably putting more thought into this than GW...
The last edition of Kill Team could use Blackstone Fortress for indoor mayhem, with rules printed in White Dwarf which. Likewise, it would be interesting to see a similar cross over with Space Hulk.
I'm not reading a whole lot into the Ecclesiarchal logo, outside of the CAT being "blessed" for whatever operation it's being used in.
ACTUALLY!
Are there any known "super pious" regiments right now? I can't think of one off the top of my head. I could see the CAT potentially being from a regiment that's sided more with the "human" side of the Ecclesiarchy compared to the "machine" side of the AdMech.
So we aren't expecting squats as the opponent here? Even though the first preview video for the squats was basically the same setup as the preview for this kill team set?
chaos0xomega wrote: So we aren't expecting squats as the opponent here? Even though the first preview video for the squats was basically the same setup as the preview for this kill team set?
Kasrkin vs Leagues of Votann is entirely reasonable
chaos0xomega wrote: So we aren't expecting squats as the opponent here? Even though the first preview video for the squats was basically the same setup as the preview for this kill team set?
Kasrkin vs Leagues of Votann is entirely reasonable
Unless the theories/speculation about the bases is true--nothing we've seen for the Leagues yet have used the same base as the Kasrkin/CAT.
There's still two more rumoured Regiments to come in plastic. Elysians could fit into this space, as they ran interdiction/boarding operations in their sector.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm not reading a whole lot into the Ecclesiarchal logo, outside of the CAT being "blessed" for whatever operation it's being used in.
ACTUALLY!
Are there any known "super pious" regiments right now? I can't think of one off the top of my head. I could see the CAT potentially being from a regiment that's sided more with the "human" side of the Ecclesiarchy compared to the "machine" side of the AdMech.
Tallarns get characterised as pretty pious, especially but the Cain books.
chaos0xomega wrote: So we aren't expecting squats as the opponent here? Even though the first preview video for the squats was basically the same setup as the preview for this kill team set?
Kasrkin vs Leagues of Votann is entirely reasonable
Unless the theories/speculation about the bases is true--nothing we've seen for the Leagues yet have used the same base as the Kasrkin/CAT.
There's still two more rumoured Regiments to come in plastic. Elysians could fit into this space, as they ran interdiction/boarding operations in their sector.
Why would there be be a kill team box of Karskins vs Elysians?
I would be down for either. I would *love* to get properly proportioned Indomitus terminator armor.
Art that portrays that armor always looks awesome, but then I see the models and just sigh.
That would actually be a pretty good idea for a kill team, now that I think about it. Pretty good way to sneak in a classic model upgrade (that isn't Primaris) and add some new options. Standard loyalist indomitus terminators aren't exactly. . . good, and haven't been for as long as I'm aware.
Why would there be be a kill team box of Karskins vs Elysians?
Why would there be a kill team box of Kasrkins vs League of Votann?
If you all want to latch onto the basing bits as evidence of the Kasrkin being present, remember that none of the so far seen items for the League have featured the same basing setup.
Why would there be be a kill team box of Karskins vs Elysians?
Why would there be a kill team box of Kasrkins vs League of Votann?
If you all want to latch onto the basing bits as evidence of the Kasrkin being present, remember that none of the so far seen items for the League have featured the same basing setup.
I think he means from a fluff perspective. Plus wasn't the Kasrkin revealed early due to a leak? No reason there couldn't be a Votann unit in the pipeline we haven't seen that starts as a KT release (although I don't actually think that's what we'll see with *this* particular release).
Why would there be be a kill team box of Karskins vs Elysians?
Why would there be a kill team box of Kasrkins vs League of Votann?
If you all want to latch onto the basing bits as evidence of the Kasrkin being present, remember that none of the so far seen items for the League have featured the same basing setup.
I think he means from a fluff perspective.
It's blatantly obvious that I was suggesting the Elysians would be in rather than Kasrkin. This is standard fare for the poster in question.
Plus wasn't the Kasrkin revealed early due to a leak? No reason there couldn't be a Votann unit in the pipeline we haven't seen that starts as a KT release (although I don't actually think that's what we'll see with *this* particular release).
The image with the Kasrkin was not from a KT item. The leaked image is exactly what GW posted. It featured Ursula Creed, the new Sentinel kit, the new Commissar Lord, the new Heavy Weapons Squad, and the new Cadian Shock Troop kits.
Why would there be be a kill team box of Karskins vs Elysians?
Why would there be a kill team box of Kasrkins vs League of Votann?
If you all want to latch onto the basing bits as evidence of the Kasrkin being present, remember that none of the so far seen items for the League have featured the same basing setup.
I think he means from a fluff perspective. Plus wasn't the Kasrkin revealed early due to a leak? No reason there couldn't be a Votann unit in the pipeline we haven't seen that starts as a KT release (although I don't actually think that's what we'll see with *this* particular release).
Not only it'd be a bit iffy from a fluff perspective, it would just be weird in comparasion to the previous boxes, given they all were pitting two units from two vastly different and opposing factions against each other, like Orks and Krieg or SoBs and T'au. It'd just seem funky to do an Imperium vs Imperium box
The Phazer wrote: Actually, the more I look at it the more I think that's an Ecclesiarchy logo rather than an Inquisition one.
Good point, could be the Kasrkin will be dual kit with Storm-trooper heads or something, and they add them to the Sister's book along with Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors. That would essentially be close to what the Witch Hunter book was.
My first thought was maybe it was an Imperial Navy symbol (which would be the most logical), but it is more like the Ecclesiarchy. I wonder if they mixed them up...?
Haighus wrote: My first thought was maybe it was an Imperial Navy symbol (which would be the most logical), but it is more like the Ecclesiarchy. I wonder if they mixed them up...?
A group of Naval Security could be represented by the Kasrkin miniatures, so that would make a fair deal of sense.
Is the Kasrkin assertion based entirely on the similarity of the basing?
That seems tenuous.
The page mentions a space hulk. It has a picture of a C.A.T model, something that has previously only been used by Terminator squads in the Space Hulk game.
I think the only logical guess based on the evidence we have is Terminators vs Genestealers onboard a Space Hulk. That in itself is tenuous, but is at least based on things we have seen before.
I’m going to say kaskrin vs demons…
Just because I don’t think squats are getting a killteam set yet.. they got the necromunda treatment…I also think the 3 new guard regiments are catachan, Cadian, and dkok… Elysian is to far outside guard playstyle with a lot of drop troops.
I have nothing to base demons on except it’s due for a killteam and 40K release
ekwatts wrote: Is there anything to indicate that this isn't a soft-reboot of Space Hulk within the Kill Team ecosphere? Because I would be down for that.
While I would LOVE for this to happen, not seeing anything that points that way.
ekwatts wrote: Is the Kasrkin assertion based entirely on the similarity of the basing?
Pretty much.
I can see them doing NuKasrkin vs Old Genestealers w/new hat as a boxed set.
As always with these KT things, it's all about the terrain: What new stuff are they about to give me us.
If your right the Ymgarl genestealers might get rules for both KT and 40K. But now I want to know what a genestealer medic looks like.
A nid team could be great in terms of the added biomorphs for the specialists! I think new Stealers would be possible as they would hit two armies at once with them - GSC as well as Nids. It would be nice to see them do something fresh with them and Ymgarl would be potentially nasty.
Chairman Aeon wrote:What if it’s a BSF style solo expansion? A kill team vs a box of monsters…
I did read a rumour on discord that the Nid element of SpaceHulk would be something other than Stealers- part of it would be Zoats... take with lots of salt obviously but this was mentioned last week, no idea if the poster has any credibility but I would certainly welcome so fresh new Nid Weirdness...Zoats would be a surprise!
The Kasrkin should be pretty much set for this. I can’t see any other reason why their bases were similar to the CAT‘s and different than the rest of the Cadians.
Their opponents? Tyranids aren‘t the only danger to be found in Space Hulks, it could well be other xenos (Orks) or chaos too (cultists?). Based on the other KT boxes, we might only get an existing unit, maybe with an upgrade sprue. Possibly both factions with some extra minis, like a character, the CAT obviously, etc.
I’m getting Rogue Trader vibes. Maybe the box comes with a story driven campaign for the 2 factions. I would also like to see a modular Environment with hallways etc.
My guess is on Gravis Deathwatch vs. Genestealers or Inquisitorial Retinue (we might get a Imperial Agents Codex or they are folded into IG) vs. Genestealers.
Anyway it's gonna be almost definitely Stealers and that is a massive let down. I mean yes, they need new models for ages now. But this will most likely not happen. It will be the Imperial side that gets the new kit and the Stealers that get the upgrade kit. But most importantly, this will replace the Hive Mind Kill Team and tbh. Stealers are absolutely boring to play in Kill Team. Personally I find them borderline useless. The Combination of 3 Warriors with Gaunts is much more interesting and flexible. And this section will be entirely dropped.
I'm just hoping that the terrain will be nice, I guess it's gonna be the Zone Mortalis set from Necromunda. Chances that they make entirely new terrain like in the starter box are sadly close to 0%.
I suppose there is no reason they couldn't take the Rogue Trader / Warcry Catacombs approach to the scenery this time around - with double-sided space hulk maps printed on the fold-out boards and plastic doors + scatter terrain. Assuming a lower price point than the current KT sets, I would certainly be up for that..
Siygess wrote: I suppose there is no reason they couldn't take the Rogue Trader / Warcry Catacombs approach to the scenery this time around - with double-sided space hulk maps printed on the fold-out boards and plastic doors + scatter terrain. Assuming a lower price point than the current KT sets, I would certainly be up for that..
It's a bold assumption given that the last time around, the "doors only" Kill Team box was significantly more expensive than the one with terrain.
I know, but you have to live in hope, right? Hope that somebody at GW holds the Moroch box in one hand and the hypothetical and mostly terrain-less box in the other and says, "Hmm, there is a lot less plastic in this one. We should charge less for it"
Dryaktylus wrote:Rogue Trader Warband vs Gellerpox Infected?
A completely new Genestealer kit would be nice though.
Jadenim wrote:I would love an expanded team of armsmen, to go with the previous Rogue Trader expansion.
Could it point to bringing back the plastics from Rogue Trader board game? I think there was a rumor to that effect.
Yes, I think we had a rumor to that effect. I don't expect to see Rogue Trader versus Gellerpox as box features, though. Not shiny and new enough, and probably not suitable for an upgrade sprue either. But as a release alongside the actual Kill Team box with White Dwarf rules it might happen.
While we have a pretty solid pattern for how the Kill Team boxes look at this point, I could see this expansion deviate from the other boxes and make it a quasi big summer release that introduces enclosed environments and comes with a few extra kill teams and a separate rule book, all without being an actual new edition.
Siygess wrote: I suppose there is no reason they couldn't take the Rogue Trader / Warcry Catacombs approach to the scenery this time around - with double-sided space hulk maps printed on the fold-out boards and plastic doors + scatter terrain. Assuming a lower price point than the current KT sets, I would certainly be up for that..
It's a bold assumption given that the last time around, the "doors only" Kill Team box was significantly more expensive than the one with terrain.
I'm pretty sure Pariah Nexus was the same price but with less in it, because you know, that makes all the difference.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Siygess wrote: I know, but you have to live in hope, right? Hope that somebody at GW holds the Moroch box in one hand and the hypothetical and mostly terrain-less box in the other and says, "Hmm, there is a lot less plastic in this one. We should charge less for it"
Hope is the first step to what? Exactly.
And with GW it really is "Hmm, there is a lot less plastic in this one. We should have marketing talk it up more."
Everybody wishlisting factions isn't thinking big enough.
I say it's a $300 mega bundle of space hulk terrain with 4 factions. Kasrkins, Votann, nu-scale Terminators and Genestealers.
Seriously though, if this is a new setting for KT, is quite possible we get all of these factions over the next few expansions.
My only issue with Kasrkins as a unique factions is that they already could bee run as Veteran Guardsmen. Based on the leaked squad photos they have all the wargear options for it in the set.
Seem like a missed opportunity to get bespoke rules for other factions by including them in the initial set.
Now if we're talking five Kasrkins and some Inquisition or Eccleisarchy add-ons that would be amazing. But I don't see that happening.
ekwatts wrote: Is there anything to indicate that this isn't a soft-reboot of Space Hulk within the Kill Team ecosphere? Because I would be down for that.
While I would LOVE for this to happen, not seeing anything that points that way.
Apart from it being on a space hulk and a CAT being involved.
I haven't been able to get my hands on a copy of Space Hulk since second edition, so I certainly wouldn't mind a permanently available box set that can at least give me a souped up set of minis to recreate it all with.
It'd be nice just to have some Genestealers to paint up in their classic purple and blue, too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That said, it's entirely possible that the Space Hulk nods are based around the premise only, so we might be seeing Heavy Intercessors (with an upgrade sprue) facing off against chaos cultists.
Are there any box deals out there that currently include genestealers? I think GW is required to foist off the old sculpts to pad out boxes. If there are none currently on the market, that might be a sign they will be included here.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Isn't the symbol on the C.A.T. the Adeptus Minisoturm symbol? That seems like a bit of a strange group to be using a robot on a Space Hulk.
It is.
Why'd that be stranger than any other faction? Ministorum runs and coordinates a bazillion different organisations, including all sorts of violent evangelists and commando forces that go forth into the dark places of the galaxy. Everyone and their dog in this galaxy has access to various pieces of tech that can be useful in such environments (if they are important enough to travel in space to begin with, anyway). The forces involved probably aren't fighting in straigh-on hard vacuum environs, likely lacking powered suits, but otherwise there are all sorts of regular joes like storm troopers, boarding specialists, naval armsmen and whatnot who occasionally get tangled up in some void operations. A plausible framing would also be that the Ministorum side is fighting an alien infestation aboard their own ship in its rarely travelled, labyrinthine depths, but with plenty of their own tools and helpful machinery at hand.
Why'd that be stranger than any other faction? Ministorum runs and coordinates a bazillion different organisations, including all sorts of violent evangelists and commando forces that go forth into the dark places of the galaxy. Everyone and their dog in this galaxy has access to various pieces of tech that can be useful in such environments (if they are important enough to travel in space to begin with, anyway). The forces involved probably aren't fighting in straigh-on hard vacuum environs, likely lacking powered suits, but otherwise there are all sorts of regular joes like storm troopers, boarding specialists, naval armsmen and whatnot who occasionally get tangled up in some void operations. A plausible framing would also be that the Ministorum side is fighting an alien infestation aboard their own ship in its rarely travelled, labyrinthine depths, but with plenty of their own tools and helpful machinery at hand.
Honestly, it's stranger for it to be Ministorum as the thing isn't carved out of the skull of a zealot or a cherub. When you think "Ministorum", you tend towards the cherubs and servoskulls with laud-hailers and the like.
The more I look at it? The weirder this thing is. Why is a clearly mechanical piece, lacking human elements and likely skirting close to what the Ecclesiarchy considers as "heresy", sporting a Ministorum insignia?
The only reasonable-ish explanation I can think of leads me to an Inquisitor's warband--with a piece of tech operated by a Techpriest but blessed by a Ministorum Priest as it gets sent into "corrupted" areas?
Heck, the Ministorum insignia looks like it's just kind of jammed in there.
Spoiler:
If you look at the bottom of the insignia, it does not look like it is part of the 'body' of the C.A.T. but rather it looks like it is attached around the spar for the track assembly.
Why'd that be stranger than any other faction? Ministorum runs and coordinates a bazillion different organisations, including all sorts of violent evangelists and commando forces that go forth into the dark places of the galaxy. Everyone and their dog in this galaxy has access to various pieces of tech that can be useful in such environments (if they are important enough to travel in space to begin with, anyway). The forces involved probably aren't fighting in straigh-on hard vacuum environs, likely lacking powered suits, but otherwise there are all sorts of regular joes like storm troopers, boarding specialists, naval armsmen and whatnot who occasionally get tangled up in some void operations. A plausible framing would also be that the Ministorum side is fighting an alien infestation aboard their own ship in its rarely travelled, labyrinthine depths, but with plenty of their own tools and helpful machinery at hand.
Honestly, it's stranger for it to be Ministorum as the thing isn't carved out of the skull of a zealot or a cherub. When you think "Ministorum", you tend towards the cherubs and servoskulls with laud-hailers and the like.
The more I look at it? The weirder this thing is. Why is a clearly mechanical piece, lacking human elements and likely skirting close to what the Ecclesiarchy considers as "heresy", sporting a Ministorum insignia?
The only reasonable-ish explanation I can think of leads me to an Inquisitor's warband--with a piece of tech operated by a Techpriest but blessed by a Ministorum Priest as it gets sent into "corrupted" areas?
Heck, the Ministorum insignia looks like it's just kind of jammed in there.
Spoiler:
If you look at the bottom of the insignia, it does not look like it is part of the 'body' of the C.A.T. but rather it looks like it is attached around the spar for the track assembly.
All in all, it's heckin' weird.
Definitely agreed on the weirdness.
The symbol is integrated into the frame that connects the tracks to the sensor. That's not normally a design you see on Imperial models as it's more chiseled than slapped on in appearance.
Apart from the missing wings, isn‘t the ][ symbol on the CAT very close to the one of the Schola Progenium? That would again point towards a more ‚conventional‘ imperial faction, like Guard.
Given that the description of the Cyber-altered Task Unit mentions "quartermasters," I'm more inclined to think it's going to be some flavor of Astra Militarum.
At a guess? We'll be looking at a box that features Tempestus Scions or Kasrkins going up against Tyranids (my money's on Genestealers), with the terrain along the lines of the Necromunda Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls set and a cardboard gaming mat.
Given that the description of the Cyber-altered Task Unit mentions "quartermasters," I'm more inclined to think it's going to be some flavor of Astra Militarum.
Do you think the Inquisition doesn't have quartermasters?
At a guess? We'll be looking at a box that features Tempestus Scions or Kasrkins going up against Tyranids (my money's on Genestealers), with the terrain along the lines of the Necromunda Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls set and a cardboard gaming mat.
I'm definitely inclined to agree on the Genestealer front.
Although, throwing this out as a completely off-the-rails wild option?
ekwatts wrote: Is there anything to indicate that this isn't a soft-reboot of Space Hulk within the Kill Team ecosphere? Because I would be down for that.
I think there were rumors of a new space hulk (or space hulk like) game at the tail end of last year?
The more I look at it? The weirder this thing is. Why is a clearly mechanical piece, lacking human elements and likely skirting close to what the Ecclesiarchy considers as "heresy", sporting a Ministorum insignia?
I assumed it was remote controlled, nothing heretical about that.
The question is really about money and sales. If GW can profit from it, they will. So, it's always about the prior product. Those who got stuck with Inquisitor books back in the day know all about this.
I would love for this second season of kill team to focus on closed environments, and each box is a kill zone of an area of the same ship.
With kill teams that fit in ships. Inq/ministorum vs tyranids in this this first box, and vottan, chaos corsairs, freebooterz, cult genestealer, others new xenos races.. reedition of rogue trader and guellepox.. etc etc
zamerion wrote: I would love for this second season of kill team to focus on closed environments, and each box is a kill zone of an area of the same ship.
I'm pretty sure that is the lore for the killzone terrain in Nachmund. It supposedly takes place on an Adeptus Mechanicus battle cruiser.
What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
Shakalooloo wrote: What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
It would be the most logical, if not the box will be very expensive.
but in the video the door that we see is more similar to the necromunda. In addition, the walls that are seen on the sides seem like something new. It could be just decoration for the video... but who knows
Shakalooloo wrote: What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
It would be the most logical, if not the box will be very expensive.
but in the video the door that we see is more similar to the necromunda. In addition, the walls that are seen on the sides seem like something new. It could be just decoration for the video... but who knows
I'm still kinda thinking that the next Kill Team box will be similar to either Necromunda: Hive War or Necromunda: Dark Uprising in terms of terrain and content. Maybe instead of getting the Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs that came in Necromunda: Dark Uprising, we'll get two sets of the Necromunda Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls?
Shakalooloo wrote: What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
It would be the most logical, if not the box will be very expensive.
but in the video the door that we see is more similar to the necromunda. In addition, the walls that are seen on the sides seem like something new. It could be just decoration for the video... but who knows
I'm still kinda thinking that the next Kill Team box will be similar to either Necromunda: Hive War or Necromunda: Dark Uprising in terms of terrain and content. Maybe instead of getting the Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs that came in Necromunda: Dark Uprising, we'll get two sets of the Necromunda Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls?
The walls in the video arent from necromunda. The problem with the walls/columns of necromunda is that they are very wide, and on a map with the oficial size of Kill team board it could not be played well.
if the new box comes with walls, they should not be thicker than the ones in the fronteris sector or moroch
I'm so glad everyone was completely wrong. Imperial Navy Voidsmen vs Kroot starting the new season of Kill Team which entirely takes place in a plastic Space Hulk!
Shakalooloo wrote: What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Zone mortalis floor tiles are used in the preview shot with the DKoK
The roof is Zone Mortalis floor upside down but the floor is new with some familiar elements.
This is the only thing I’m excited about in that preview. Additional expansion sets to zone mortalis building a more varied setting.
The only issue with the floors is that they are a grid like pattern of connection points. They could create a thinner wall to change that up a bit but I would love to be able to create a larger 3x3 size zone mortalis board for killteam that you can use to create underground facilities or space hulks.. different rooms etc.
Zone mortalis board is perfect for quality GM driven narrative games… playing those games are so much fun… designing a space hulk and a mission where your imperium killteam/combat patrol/incursion size force needs to enter the base and retrieve an artifact/rescue someone. Place 3-5 unknown markers in seperate rooms and have the killteam force reach/retrieve each until they find the target and exit in 5 turns.
Well lets not forget Traitor Guard didn't get 40k rules (yet) in the CSM codex like everyone expected. Could be they will be getting rules somewhere else... or it could be that GW now no longer feels obligated to give us 40k rules for every Kill Team faction.
I was wrong and I'm happy that I was. This is excellent news. 2 entirely new teams (no upgrade cheap cuts) dedicated terrian, commitment to a long term invest into a setting that actually makes sense to harbour every faction of the galaxy, actual new kroot models! It's like christmas already for us Killteam Players.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well lets not forget Traitor Guard didn't get 40k rules (yet) in the CSM codex like everyone expected.
You mean, like GW literally said they would?
Well, yes. Either way the point stands - they weren't there and currently can't be used in any 40k army without conversion/count-as, etc. so... it would seem logical to conclude that there is no guarantee that other kill teams will be usable.
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's kinda funny how despite being released for a KillTeam game set on a Space Hulk, that Kroot still has a tactical rock to stand on.
Tactical asteroid?
I’m super excited about this, I loved the Starstriders sculpts, so to be able to expand them with more Voidsmen is cool and new Kroot are awesome.
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's kinda funny how despite being released for a KillTeam game set on a Space Hulk, that Kroot still has a tactical rock to stand on.
Stands out so much, even the GW employees called it out as ridiculous.
gungo wrote: I’m also wondering if the navy models are being given 40K rules under imperial guard?
Probably be Agents of the Imperium like the Starstriders were, since they're technically not Guard.
Master of the Fleet and Valkyrie both are Imperial Navy in the Guard codex.
That's true, but Master of the Fleet is a liaison that specifically works with the ground forces of the Imperium. While some Valkyries are Navy ships attached to Guard regiments, a lot of them are Astra Militarum vehicles with AM pilots - they were even presented this way in Aeronautica.
I would hope we get some rules for 40k for the Naval Breaching team, but if we didn't get any for the Traitor Guard - I think the Naval team may also be a KT exclusive.
Would make some degree of sense to put the armsmen in the guard codex to accompany the master of the fleet. Can't trust those filthy mudlovers to keep a naval officer safe.
SamusDrake wrote: The Imperials are too close to the Kreigs in the other set, while the Kroots look more at home in Lost Patrol than Space Hulk.
I was hoping this was the one to bring me into the new edition but its a hard pass.
I don't think anything would bring you in if 19th Century Deepsea Diver Guard look like WW1 French to you. Mag boots, weapons that won't pierce the hull, actual faces?!
Kroot looking like Genestealers or Marine scouts, or just that they should just do "Predator" in a jungle? Or vultures picking over the carcass of a space hulk to get the good stuff their employers want to keep for themselves?
It's hard to think of a worse take unless you were paid to do it to drive engagement.
Sabotage! wrote: That's true, but Master of the Fleet is a liaison that specifically works with the ground forces of the Imperium. While some Valkyries are Navy ships attached to Guard regiments, a lot of them are Astra Militarum vehicles with AM pilots - they were even presented this way in Aeronautica.
Valkyries with IG crew was a major retcon that directly contradicts established fluff that the vast majority of them are Navy crews operating in support of the ground troops and the handful of exceptions are all highly unusual situations. Remember that separation of powers is a fundamental rule of the Imperium, IG and Navy do not have the same chain of command so that if one side turns traitor a combined arms force of loyalists can easily put down the rebellion.
More relevant IMO is that all of the other aircraft (Thunderbolts, Marauders, etc) are IG for tabletop purposes and have been since they were first introduced. I'd expect rules in the IG codex but no <REGIMENT> keyword.
Hmm, Armsmen are Ok, but there are some serious issues with those Kroot models, IMO. The proportions are more human, less spindly and avian, and that is not a good thing. The head appears smaller and weirdly frog like. Sad to see.
Sabotage! wrote: That's true, but Master of the Fleet is a liaison that specifically works with the ground forces of the Imperium. While some Valkyries are Navy ships attached to Guard regiments, a lot of them are Astra Militarum vehicles with AM pilots - they were even presented this way in Aeronautica.
Valkyries with IG crew was a major retcon that directly contradicts established fluff that the vast majority of them are Navy crews operating in support of the ground troops and the handful of exceptions are all highly unusual situations. Remember that separation of powers is a fundamental rule of the Imperium, IG and Navy do not have the same chain of command so that if one side turns traitor a combined arms force of loyalists can easily put down the rebellion.
More relevant IMO is that all of the other aircraft (Thunderbolts, Marauders, etc) are IG for tabletop purposes and have been since they were first introduced. I'd expect rules in the IG codex but no <REGIMENT> keyword.
I guess I haven’t been up enough on when it was a retconned, but I always imagine Valkyrie’s a more like helicopters in a military- which are generally operated under the branch of whatever the ground forces are. I do remember the separation of Navy and Imperial Army post-Heresy, so I definitely agree about that part. But Elysians have existed for quite a while and operate their own support aircraft, so I’m sure there are some regiments that have used them historically (not sure if the Harkoni Warhawks did).
That’s true about all the FW navy stuff being used as Guard stuff, so I suppose it is a possibility that the Armsmen get folded into the Guard book. Honestly I would be pretty okay with that. I just have a feeling they won’t have 40k rules, like the Blooded.
kestral wrote: Hmm, Armsmen are Ok, but there are some serious issues with those Kroot models, IMO. The proportions are more human, less spindly and avian, and that is not a good thing. The head appears smaller and weirdly frog like. Sad to see.
Maybe these particular kroots spent too much time munching on humans and the shaper didn't do a good enough job on making sure they didn't end up too human-y
chaos0xomega wrote: Well lets not forget Traitor Guard didn't get 40k rules (yet) in the CSM codex like everyone expected. Could be they will be getting rules somewhere else... or it could be that GW now no longer feels obligated to give us 40k rules for every Kill Team faction.
hopefully I hate the shoe horned rules for 40k kill team needs its own thing.
I'm not too thrilled about same old bolt pistol + P.Sword combo and combat shotgun, a slightly altered pump shotgun pattern that the marine used. I guess these guys are kinda expendable so no budget whatsoever into giving them some unique pattern weapon. Even the shield guy is using a bulkhead door as a shield, but at least he got a shotgun with 2 barrels. Hopefully the alternative build with special weapons give these dudes a better impression.
Somebody on Reddit got some screen grabs from the pictures and trailer and it looks like the Armsmen also have a guy with what appears to be a rotary cannon, and a guy with a boarding axe. There also looks to be one with a chainfist or medical gauntlet thing, but it's hard to tell if its a servitor or a Naval trooper.
The Squats announcement trailer and the Preview day teaser last week seemed to hint Squats on a spaceship setting. Probably a KT expansion down the road closer to their 40K codex. Who would guessed Necromunda would be the first game they'd be back in as a faction.
Sabotage! wrote: Somebody on Reddit got some screen grabs from the pictures and trailer and it looks like the Armsmen also have a guy with what appears to be a rotary cannon, and a guy with a boarding axe. There also looks to be one with a chainfist or medical gauntlet thing, but it's hard to tell if its a servitor or a Naval trooper.
Sabotage! wrote: Somebody on Reddit got some screen grabs from the pictures and trailer and it looks like the Armsmen also have a guy with what appears to be a rotary cannon, and a guy with a boarding axe. There also looks to be one with a chainfist or medical gauntlet thing, but it's hard to tell if its a servitor or a Naval trooper.
Yeah, seems interesting. It is a tad annoying they couldn't properly reveal the whole box. In any case, I hope that these and the new Kroot weapons get proper rules in 40K too.
Shakalooloo wrote: What's the betting that the terrain for the new Space Hulk killzone will just be a re-release of the doors, chairs and pipes from the Rogue Trader set of previous Kill Team?
Well... clearly not:
There, uh, there's nothing new in the bottom pic other than the wall from the top pic. The floor is Mechanucum and the ceiling is an upside down ZM tile. I'm gonna say that's a mood shot and nothing to do with future terrain.
They said in the stream that the plastic floor is new, and the set contains modular terrain, so I'm guessing it will have a board with modular walls, with some location specific scatter terrain.
They said each new set will contain a new part of the ship but I reckon the floors and walls stay the same, with individual scenery items making up the locations.
Pure speculation because we don’t really know what form this scenery takes, but it’s interesting that it seems to be distinct from the Zone Mortalis kits.
I’m seriously wondering if it’s something more along the lines of a 3D version of the old card Space Hulk tiles, fitting together to make corridors and rooms.
JSG wrote: GW keep dodging a plastic Inquisitor and retinue.
They could go half and half- an upgrade sized sprue could fit an ordo xenos inquisitor and then a few parts to upgrade a 5 man deathwatch unit with some more interesting xenos bits than just a xenophase blade.
JSG wrote: GW keep dodging a plastic Inquisitor and retinue.
They could go half and half- an upgrade sized sprue could fit an ordo xenos inquisitor and then a few parts to upgrade a 5 man deathwatch unit with some more interesting xenos bits than just a xenophase blade.
That is a super-inspired idea…so GW will never think of it.
Kanluwen wrote: Inquisition and Friends is a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.
We know for a fact the latter half is true, so we also know it's not the correct answer.
Kanluwen wrote: Everyone thinks they know what the aesthetic should be...but there isn't a really established aesthetic, outside of the few Ordo locked wargear bits.
People who like the models can buy and use the models. People who don't like the models can convert their own. That's an improvement for a least a part of GW's customers to the state we're in now. Better than not having an Inqusition range at all.
Interesting that they mention genestealers, orks, and corsairs ( world eaters)
Hmm. I know some people speculated that the beserkers we saw pictured with Angron were just the current CSM with an upgrade sprue. Given that they already made an upgrade sprue for CSM in kill team, I kind of doubt they'd make a khorne themed one. Maybe Kill team will introduce beserkers before the rest of the WE range is debuted
I didn't realize how tall kroot are (the skull crucible should have given it away), but I'm not complaining. Also, since its a funeral ship space hulk, I guess the kroot are there to eat corpse jerky
MajorWesJanson wrote: Orks? We already got kommandos with kill team. Tankbustas need a plastic kit, but lootas or nobz with upgrades would make more sense in a space hulk.
Space Hulk 5th edition: Ork nobz cleansing their space hulk from a kasrkin infestation.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Orks? We already got kommandos with kill team. Tankbustas need a plastic kit, but lootas or nobz with upgrades would make more sense in a space hulk.
Space Hulk 5th edition: Ork nobz cleansing their space hulk from a kasrkin infestation.
Dang humiez keep cloggin' up the whatzits tryin' ta find their 'reliks' and whatnot.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Orks? We already got kommandos with kill team. Tankbustas need a plastic kit, but lootas or nobz with upgrades would make more sense in a space hulk.
Well, we are getting Kroot when Tau already got Pathfinders.
I think Flash Gitz (with upgrade sprue) would be the best, they have the Freebooterz pirate vibe.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Orks? We already got kommandos with kill team. Tankbustas need a plastic kit, but lootas or nobz with upgrades would make more sense in a space hulk.
Well, we are getting Kroot when Tau already got Pathfinders.
I think Flash Gitz (with upgrade sprue) would be the best, they have the Freebooterz pirate vibe.
my dream would be a new freebooterz unit, with a wide variety of weapons, but this would be almost the same as kommandos. So it's probably what are you saying (lootas/flash gitz with new sprue)
so if we consider these factions to be true, and we add karskin for his base style.. only two other factions would remain. A good opportunity to rescue gallepox and elucydians.
JSG wrote: GW keep dodging a plastic Inquisitor and retinue.
They could go half and half- an upgrade sized sprue could fit an ordo xenos inquisitor and then a few parts to upgrade a 5 man deathwatch unit with some more interesting xenos bits than just a xenophase blade.
That is a super-inspired idea…so GW will never think of it.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Orks? We already got kommandos with kill team. Tankbustas need a plastic kit, but lootas or nobz with upgrades would make more sense in a space hulk.
Well, we are getting Kroot when Tau already got Pathfinders.
I think Flash Gitz (with upgrade sprue) would be the best, they have the Freebooterz pirate vibe.
my dream would be a new freebooterz unit, with a wide variety of weapons, but this would be almost the same as kommandos. So it's probably what are you saying (lootas/flash gitz with new sprue)
so if we consider these factions to be true, and we add karskin for his base style.. only two other factions would remain. A good opportunity to rescue gallepox and elucydians.
That is an if, though. The odds of GW just namedropping three future factions, at least one of which won't be released for another six months at a minimum, is slim.
A more conservative read is that Genestealers and Orks are mentioned because GW happens to have Space Hulk themed Black Library stories they can cross promote to people fired up about the new setting.
World Eaters may stand a better chance of getting a Kill Team release since their link just goes to the Angron reveal article instead of trying to sell you something now. Which still does not rule out that it's also just a chance to promote stuff in general rather than a stealthy sneak peek.
Geifer wrote: A more conservative read is that Genestealers and Orks are mentioned because GW happens to have Space Hulk themed Black Library stories they can cross-promote to people fired up about the new setting.
World Eaters may stand a better chance of getting a Kill Team release since their link just goes to the Angron reveal article instead of trying to sell you something now. This still does not rule out that it's also just a chance to promote stuff in general rather than a stealthy sneak peek.
I'd argue that everything in the article was either meant to be a nostalgia trip or cross-promotion for a Black Library book. The reference to Angron is a nod to the lore for the First War for Armageddon, the art pieces are from the First and Third Editions of Space Hulk, and the hyperlinks go straight to Black Library stories about space hulks. And even then, the fact that Genestealers, Orks, and Renegades have always been mentioned as possible threats that one encounters in space hulks.
Looks like bell of lost souls has the price of the new kill team stuff and here is the link
[url]https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/07/this-weeks-warhammer-40k-products-pricing-confirmed-hello-kill-team.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=Socia
[/url]
For those that don't want to go there here are the prices
Kill Team Nachmund Book: $45 €35 £27.50
Kill Team: Corsair Voidscarred $60 €45 £35
Kill Team Chaos Space Marines Legionaries: $70 €55 £42.50
Well, there are 8 teams to be released for this coming "Space Hulk" season. We know two:
Imperial Navy
Kroot
We have many compelling reasons to believe these two will be coming:
Cadian Karskin
Leagues of Votann
The individual who shared the leak that Navy & Kroot were coming in this next box has stated that the following box will be Karskin versus:
Beastmen
So, we have 3 more to speculate wildly about. I think there is a decent chance that the reference to Blood Angels in the "Into the Dark" reveal may indicate a Terminator force coming.
Second, we are talking about Space Hulk here, so a Tyranid force must be coming, no??? Sure, it's likely to be all Genestealers, a disappointment for me personally...
And the last team is up in the air. If we assume the Votann will slot in to the "imperium" (i.e. good guys) side of whatever box it is released in, then we have our 4 good factions. We are short a bad guy force. Though I'd love Necrons (more likely to be a White Dwarf team), my suspicion is that it will be something wholly new as the rumor is that each box will contain a unit from a 40K army and a KT-specific force (e.g. Imperial Navy, Beastmen). So, give me a force of 4 Zoats please!
We have zero reason to think Kasrkin or Leagues are coming in KT. Everyone leapt onto the Kasrkin because of the bases, but the pictures they're in should really disabuse you of that notion.
The bases for everything in the picture were different.
I am, however, expecting an AdMech KT at some point.
Well, there are 8 teams to be released for this coming "Space Hulk" season. We know two:
Imperial Navy
Kroot
We have many compelling reasons to believe these two will be coming:
Cadian Karskin
Leagues of Votann
The individual who shared the leak that Navy & Kroot were coming in this next box has stated that the following box will be Karskin versus:
Beastmen
So, we have 3 more to speculate wildly about. I think there is a decent chance that the reference to Blood Angels in the "Into the Dark" reveal may indicate a Terminator force coming.
Second, we are talking about Space Hulk here, so a Tyranid force must be coming, no??? Sure, it's likely to be all Genestealers, a disappointment for me personally...
And the last team is up in the air. If we assume the Votann will slot in to the "imperium" (i.e. good guys) side of whatever box it is released in, then we have our 4 good factions. We are short a bad guy force. Though I'd love Necrons (more likely to be a White Dwarf team), my suspicion is that it will be something wholly new as the rumor is that each box will contain a unit from a 40K army and a KT-specific force (e.g. Imperial Navy, Beastmen). So, give me a force of 4 Zoats please
Mr_Rose wrote: Kasrkin vs. beastmen? Hope they don’t get covered in too much chaos bling because I have an idea for a Venators gang…
I expect that if we see Beastmen, it will be in the shape of Khorne dogs that tie in with the World Eaters codex.
That makes sense since they mentioned World eaters in the kill team article. It would also come out around the time the World Eater codex is rumoured to comes out.
Well, there were recently 40K rumours that included Primaris Terminators and new Genestealers, so if they were to release such anyway, it would make sense to tie them to space hulky stuff too.
Olthannon wrote: It would be daft of GW not to do a terminators vs genestealers box. I would think that is practically a given.
To be a balanced Kill Team though, it would be what? Three terminators? I think GW will instead have no Astartes teams in this hulk-themed season.
If you’re looking for a balance Astartes vs Genestealer match up? I could easily see the Astartes side being Deathwatch Veterans.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this season features a box with updated/bespoke rules for the Deathwatch Veterans. Their current kit already has the gearing options for loads of specialist: a Leader, Warriors, two Gunners (Shotgun and Stalker Boltgun), two Combatants (Power Maul w/ Stormsheild combo and Heavy Thunderhammer), and two Heavy Gunners (Inferno Heavy Bolter and Frag Cannon). And releasing them would also allow GW to cheekily go “See, people who guessed Inquistion? You were right! We released the chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos!”
JSG wrote: GW keep dodging a plastic Inquisitor and retinue.
They could go half and half- an upgrade sized sprue could fit an ordo xenos inquisitor and then a few parts to upgrade a 5 man deathwatch unit with some more interesting xenos bits than just a xenophase blade.
Id hope for something more interesting and unique than some Deathwatch.
I'm pleasantly surpised that GW is so unpredictable. I would have bet anything that traitor guard would be in the CSM codex, and so far they're stand alone. Nobody saw navy troopers or kroot coming. Still, I'd be shocked if they don't use Killteam as a way to bulk up the Votann release.
Who knows how many non-codex teams they plan on releasing? I'd still wager that codex teams will be roughly half or more. Looking at armies with aging kits for infantry choices, you get Tyranid Genestealers and Dark Eldar Wracks, both of whom could be really fun in Kill team (and big new kits).
If GW is releasing stuff not tied to a codex and related to space hulks though... It could be Hrud time finally!
Kanluwen wrote: We have zero reason to think Kasrkin or Leagues are coming in KT. Everyone leapt onto the Kasrkin because of the bases, but the pictures they're in should really disabuse you of that notion.
The bases for everything in the picture were different.
It's not that they're different bases, it's that they're different bases that perfectly duplicate all of the Kill Team bases we've seen. The simplest explanation here is that GW put the models on Kill Team bases because the leak is accurate and they are in fact a Kill Team release.
Olthannon wrote: It would be daft of GW not to do a terminators vs genestealers box. I would think that is practically a given.
To be a balanced Kill Team though, it would be what? Three terminators? I think GW will instead have no Astartes teams in this hulk-themed season.
I think the Terminators vs Stealers will be a proper Space Hulk box- seems to be what Valrak has heard- he stated that Space Hulk is coming back, even after this Killteam season dropped. The Killteam season either runs along side that or builds up to it. Makes more sense to me that way anyway.
Could see the Votann get an extra unit in the last box of this season - would tie in the trailer, but thats probably me being over optimistic. Harlequins were mentioned in the Eldar Advent rumour calendar and that was generally reasonably accurate? If they do appear I'd expect Mimes- they were the scouts of the Harlies back in the day .. although I'm not sure how they would tie into Killteam in space..
Storywise there wouldn't be an issue. There's nothing to stop an Eldar ship from being part of the hulk. Give it webway access and you get clowns in space.
JSG wrote: GW keep dodging a plastic Inquisitor and retinue.
They could go half and half- an upgrade sized sprue could fit an ordo xenos inquisitor and then a few parts to upgrade a 5 man deathwatch unit with some more interesting xenos bits than just a xenophase blade.
Id hope for something more interesting and unique than some Deathwatch.
Don't we all?
It's not like the Inquisition wouldn't fit into the exotic releases we got either. In the past few years we got Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle, a Zoat, an Ambull, we're seeing new Kroot now after twenty years of the same plastic kit, and of course Squats.
But Inquisition has pretty overtly taken the place of Sisters. The faction should get attention but you just can't trust GW to do anything with it until there is physical proof that something is coming.
Olthannon wrote: It would be daft of GW not to do a terminators vs genestealers box. I would think that is practically a given.
To be a balanced Kill Team though, it would be what? Three terminators? I think GW will instead have no Astartes teams in this hulk-themed season.
KT has different statlines for terminators. Who’s to say they don’t balance them out in ways that they couldn’t do with a 5 man squad in 40k? Being slower and more cumbersome, but tougher and harder hitting could be represented with one less AP, but better guns and armor.
Olthannon wrote: It would be daft of GW not to do a terminators vs genestealers box. I would think that is practically a given.
To be a balanced Kill Team though, it would be what? Three terminators? I think GW will instead have no Astartes teams in this hulk-themed season.
KT has different statlines for terminators. Who’s to say they don’t balance them out in ways that they couldn’t do with a 5 man squad in 40k? Being slower and more cumbersome, but tougher and harder hitting could be represented with one less AP, but better guns and armor.
You mean like how Compendium Heavy Interecessors are statlined? Last I heard, almost nobody is playing them.. they are too slow and not enough bodies to capture objectives. Naww man. If TDA wearing operatives get ported to KT21, they need some new approach.
I think we will see a Space Hulk reissue before we see TDA in KT21. This spaceship terrain might have been designed with both KT21 & nuHulk in mind, so that you can use the same terrain kit in both games.
Pariah Press wrote: They’ve already got Custodes. Seems like terminators could work in KT just fine.
Just leave the Assault Cannons and Cyclone Launchers at home, huh? What specialists would they give Terminators besides bigger guns?
Sergeant.
Terminator with power fist and stormbolter.
Terminator with chainfist and stormbolter.
Terminator with assault cannon.
Terminator with heavy flamer.
Terminator with Cyclone missile launcher.
Terminator with twin lightning claws.
Terminator with thunder hammer and storm shield.
Terminator apothecary.
Terminator with auspex/sensorium (like the one Terminator model from Space Hulk with an auspex in his power fist).
Terminator with signum could work.
Terminator zealot equivalent is also easy.
Terminator with bionic limbs.
That would be a good mix of melee and ranged options plus support.
Edit: could also do a Terminator with a grenade harness or auxiliary grenade launcher as a grenadier specialist. It ctually makes sense for Terminators.
I don’t see them doing Terminators and Genestealers just because a game about a Space Hulk exists and uses them in the past (and future?).
Loads of factions are on Space hulks in the lore and BL books etc. They aren’t any more likely just because a game unrelated entirely to KT had those factions in the past.
Not that I ever put stock in Valrak regurgitating things that have been heard, but I do think it’s more likely they’d redo Space Hulk as a boxed game again as opposed to drop them in here..
But again, a lot of people still seem sure gellerpox are likely, but personally I really don’t see that happening in these terrain heavy boxes, where we are getting 10 man vs 10 man boxes.
Gellerpox don’t fit into that.
Squats I think we are maybe more likely than the above, but I don’t know, already two game releases coming for them. And they could easily just drop it all across two releases over 3-4 weeks and have a splash big box etc.
Gellarbox could get a new, 'spiritual successor' box, in the same way the Navy Breachers harken strongly to the Starstriders. The Gellarpox is a pretty specific bit of fluff and it seems unlikely we'd see a bespoke Death Guard kit with how many options Plague Marines have so they might make a good runnerup.
Kanluwen wrote: We have zero reason to think Kasrkin or Leagues are coming in KT. Everyone leapt onto the Kasrkin because of the bases, but the pictures they're in should really disabuse you of that notion.
The bases for everything in the picture were different.
It's not that they're different bases, it's that they're different bases that perfectly duplicate all of the Kill Team bases we've seen. The simplest explanation here is that GW put the models on Kill Team bases because the leak is accurate and they are in fact a Kill Team release.
That, and the fact that the rumor source that called Navy vs Kroot when no one else was anywhere close to assuming those would be the factions has stated Kasrkin will be in a future set against Chaos Beastmen.
I tend to agree with others that we won't see Terminators vs Genestealers in a KT box. Now I do think we see a new Space Hulk boxed game that will have new models for those, and perhaps we'll see a tie in with Kill Team rules in a WD.
Anyway, I'm glad GW is taking this approach. Exploring lesser known factions in the 40k universe in Kill Team is much more interesting than copy pasting over 40k units. It allows the game to stand on its own instead of being "starter 40k".
Also kind of hilarious with how much 40k fans bitch about Space Marines getting all the releases, we have so far had a single SM release for Kill Team in over a year and now people are clamoring for more SM factions.
That, and the fact that the rumor source that called Navy vs Kroot when no one else was anywhere close to assuming those would be the factions has stated Kasrkin will be in a future set against Chaos Beastmen.
What source was? Where can I read more about it please
Yeah, people keep talking about this "rumour source that called Navy vs Kroot"...
But I've seen nothing beyond Valrak making a snarky comment...and I'd like to point out that the comment literally came the day of the final teaser that literally had the Navy insignia on it.
