Both boxes will have totally different content in terms of minis, I don't see any redundancy in that tbh. Fanatics will buy both boxes, or split-buy both of they only play Eldar or Chaos.
I think it's pretty smart actually, since both game systems (40K & KT21) will undoubtedly have rules for minis from either box.
Ok, the 10 Corsair models have now been revealed. I admit feeling a bit disappointed, the LVO teased mini is among the best of the bunch. Some of those heads just look too darn big for my liking. And some of those hairdos are a bit much for my sensibilities
I do hope there's plenty of extras on the sprues. Head options especially would be very welcome!
All in all, it's looking very specialist heavy team. Psyker, close combatants, sniper/spotter...
EDIT: Looking at the models some more, they're not that bad after all. The only one I truly detest is the medallion holding one.. thalk about classic constipated pose and the face aint doing it any fabours either..
If I ever get around to starting KT i'd definitely start with those. A couple of them look a little questionable. But due to how the heads work on eldar/dark eldar kits I would kinda expect plenty of head options....I hope. A lot of the wych/kabalite heads wouldn't look too out of place on these at all if you wanted more variety.
Slaanesh Eldar at last! But seriously, these models do not call to me at all. They are not bad but also not interesting enough unlike the previous Ork and DKoK crews.
I love them, maybe the best KT so far. KT impresses me more and more. They really dare to be different and breath some much needed creativity that isn't bogged down by marketing madness it seems.
GiToRaZor wrote: I love them, maybe the best KT so far. KT impresses me more and more. They really dare to be different and breath some much needed creativity that isn't bogged down by marketing madness it seems.
The models have all been nice. It's the fractured release of rules that spoil my interest in KT.
GiToRaZor wrote: I love them, maybe the best KT so far. KT impresses me more and more. They really dare to be different and breath some much needed creativity that isn't bogged down by marketing madness it seems.
The models have all been nice. It's the fractured release of rules that spoil my interest in KT.
Understandable, my group got lucky and everyone has a team they identify with and we are flexible enough to cover everything with house rules, no need to buy every publication. If you are waiting for your Team it is really frustrating, especially if you end up as a token release like Pathfinders or the WD rules. Also the rules release style and flavour fluff could really be A LOT better. Typical GW doesn't understand that the core rules should be online and updated at all times for free, because Wahapedia will otherwise fill that niche. (Btw. it's legal to publish rules, they can not be copyrighted in most countries).
I can forgive a slow churning if at least they keep the quality up and every team has unique looks and feel. And considering the amount of resources they get, it will take another 3 years to cover most/all factions. So all very understandable. All I hope for is that this time GW sees it through, keeps up the quality, keeps the marketing out of the unit compositions and doesn't go overboard with the extensions and power creep because ...reasons.
And maybe, hopefully, finally uploads a new organisation tool app that is free and doesn't suck. Yes I know, delerious.
Btw. if you live in Ger/NRW area and you would like a try out game let me know. In my opinion it is a lot more fun than 9th (which admittedly is a pretty low bar)
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm no Eldar fan but this kit is fo sho exciting, I mean, it's the first Eldar squad with individual wargear options?
Pretty much, owed to it being a Kill Team kit like Novitiates and their character role all star upgrades. It will be less exciting if, like Novitiates, the exotic Corsair options will be exclusive to Kill Team and the 40k rules don't support using the majority of them. That'll curtail crossover use hard, provided you want to stay WYSIWYG.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm no Eldar fan but this kit is fo sho exciting, I mean, it's the first Eldar squad with individual wargear options?
Pretty much, owed to it being a Kill Team kit like Novitiates and their character role all star upgrades. It will be less exciting if, like Novitiates, the exotic Corsair options will be exclusive to Kill Team and the 40k rules don't support using the majority of them. That'll curtail crossover use hard, provided you want to stay WYSIWYG.
We can probably at least count on the heavy/special weapon being a thing?
Really loving these models. Not a huge fan of a few of the heads, I'm hoping there are a few more helmets like the Wraith Cannon operator has, but if not I'm sure I can swap in a DE or Eldar head and it wouldn't look out of place.
Honestly, the 2 Dark Eldar heads I find to be the weakest of the bunch. The models do look fantastic overall though. Really can't wait to see who they're against and what kind of terrain will be available with this kit.
The Black Adder wrote: I love the look of these. The seer in particular is great. I'm looking forward to seeing the terrain and opposing force for the box set.
I bought myself the White Dwarfs with skitarii and thousand son rules in this weekend and I hope the rules for the eldar are equally interesting.
Which White Dwarfs?
I should probably try and get all these so I can have all the various teams rules.
GiToRaZor wrote: I love them, maybe the best KT so far. KT impresses me more and more. They really dare to be different and breath some much needed creativity that isn't bogged down by marketing madness it seems.
The models have all been nice. It's the fractured release of rules that spoil my interest in KT.
What fractured release? All one needs are the core rules + wherever one's chosen team's list resides (campaign book, white dwarf or... if one cannot wait, the compendium). Terrain rules not in the core book are available for download from WarCom.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm no Eldar fan but this kit is fo sho exciting, I mean, it's the first Eldar squad with individual wargear options?
Pretty much, owed to it being a Kill Team kit like Novitiates and their character role all star upgrades. It will be less exciting if, like Novitiates, the exotic Corsair options will be exclusive to Kill Team and the 40k rules don't support using the majority of them. That'll curtail crossover use hard, provided you want to stay WYSIWYG.
We can probably at least count on the heavy/special weapon being a thing?
40k codex leaks indicated the unit would have some weapon options and the like, yeah. Actually, I want to say there were rumors about there being two different Corsair units in the book, one with a lot more options than the other, but I might be misremembering.
Also worth pointing out that while Novitiates and Guard do not have 40k rules for all the gubbins they can build with the kill team box, the Kommandos (and IIRC Pathfinders) do.
40k codex leaks indicated the unit would have some weapon options and the like, yeah. Actually, I want to say there were rumors about there being two different Corsair units in the book, one with a lot more options than the other, but I might be misremembering.
Also worth pointing out that while Novitiates and Guard do not have 40k rules for all the gubbins they can build with the kill team box, the Kommandos (and IIRC Pathfinders) do.
None of them have 100% representation of the KT stuff in the codices.
Guard and Kommandos come the closest, while Pathfinders and Novitiates are lagging the furthest behind--with Novitiates being the biggest offender.
40k codex leaks indicated the unit would have some weapon options and the like, yeah. Actually, I want to say there were rumors about there being two different Corsair units in the book, one with a lot more options than the other, but I might be misremembering.
Also worth pointing out that while Novitiates and Guard do not have 40k rules for all the gubbins they can build with the kill team box, the Kommandos (and IIRC Pathfinders) do.
None of them have 100% representation of the KT stuff in the codices.
Guard and Kommandos come the closest, while Pathfinders and Novitiates are lagging the furthest behind--with Novitiates being the biggest offender.
Yeah, it's a hard to predict what's going to end up in the 40k rules. Until we have an idea if the Corsairs are one, big integrated sprue or a sprue with basic options and an upgrade sprue, we won't really have an idea what's going to happen (unless of course the rumored elite Corsair datasheet leaks). If the former is the case, they'll have more options because you can't remove the exotic wargear from the sprue and they will get some representation in 40k rules.
40k codex leaks indicated the unit would have some weapon options and the like, yeah. Actually, I want to say there were rumors about there being two different Corsair units in the book, one with a lot more options than the other, but I might be misremembering.
That's correct; there's a basic Troops version of the unit and a 'voidscarred' datasheet with more options under Elites.
I'd need to look it over carefully and compare with the books to see if anything is missing. The FAQs for the Core Rules provide some insights on how some of this terrain works if I recall: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#kill-team
What fractured release? All one needs are the core rules + wherever one's chosen team's list resides (campaign book, white dwarf or... if one cannot wait, the compendium). Terrain rules not in the core book are available for download from WarCom.
Ok. So how many rules sources do we have now?
Core book.
Octarius book.
Compendium.
Recruit edition.
Chalnath
White Dwarf 468
White Dwarf 469
and soon
Nachmund
The game's only been out 7 months. This scattershot approach is a complete turn off.
GiToRaZor wrote: (Btw. it's legal to publish rules, they can not be copyrighted in most countries).
I'm not a lawyer or a professional but I think this is worth a bit more expanding.
My well-read amateur's understanding of U.S. law is that you can paraphrase rules and reuse conventions, but cannot reprint rules unaltered.
That's why companies can make all those XXX-opoly games and not step on Monopoly's... well monopoly on that rule set (Monopoly's rules may also be in the public domain at this point, and the name and other identifying bits are protected under trademark law which does not expire, but you get the idea).
In the 80s and 90s Mayfair games made some great D&D-like supplements but renamed all the stats so as not to be a 1 for 1 copy of D&D. Health Points instead of Hit Points and the like.
So printing your write up or review of rules or original house rules is fine, but not scanning and posting GW rules.
40k codex leaks indicated the unit would have some weapon options and the like, yeah. Actually, I want to say there were rumors about there being two different Corsair units in the book, one with a lot more options than the other, but I might be misremembering.
That's correct; there's a basic Troops version of the unit and a 'voidscarred' datasheet with more options under Elites.
In that case, it would make sense that the new Corsairs kit can be used to build both unit types. Which means that the cloaks and weapons might indeed be optional!
Kid_Kyoto wrote: My well-read amateur's understanding of U.S. law is that you can paraphrase rules and reuse conventions, but cannot reprint rules unaltered.
That's why companies can make all those XXX-opoly games and not step on Monopoly's... well monopoly on that rule set (Monopoly's rules may also be in the public domain at this point, and the name and other identifying bits are protected under trademark law which does not expire, but you get the idea).
In the 80s and 90s Mayfair games made some great D&D-like supplements but renamed all the stats so as not to be a 1 for 1 copy of D&D. Health Points instead of Hit Points and the like.
So printing your write up or review of rules or original house rules is fine, but not scanning and posting GW rules.
As always if I'm off base please chime in.
That is correct. Mechanics are no copyrightable, but the specific expression of one, as written on a product, is. There is also the issue of trademarks, which sometimes is extended to specific gaming terms.
But the mechanics themselves are no subject to copyright.
H.B.M.C. wrote: GW just put up a video on determining line of sight in Kill Team. It's a 3 minute video to work out how you see something. Three minutes.
The people talking about barriers to entry with this edition of the game sure weren't kidding...
You say this like it is a long time to discuss any rule aspect. Feeling ?
To be fair, I also think the marine armory is massively bloated. All those fancy little rules attached to the new guns can be either tossed, or move to a special rule on the squad. We don’t need special bespoke rules just because you have a fancy scope or a banana clip. 24” S4 rapid fire. All we need.
Again, keep that level of crunch in KT. Not the company scale game 40k has become.
I might occasionally have odd quirks, but at least I’m mostly internally consistant. (Unlike GW )
RPGs and squad level games I like the fact that sharp-eye bob has the marksman rifle, or ripper jones has a machete instead of the standard issue combat knife. It’s the place for it. 40k at the scale it’s at now needs a trim, and the marine armory should be the first place hit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: GW just put up a video on determining line of sight in Kill Team. It's a 3 minute video to work out how you see something. Three minutes.
The people talking about barriers to entry with this edition of the game sure weren't kidding...
The problem is the video is too short. It moves along at a fair clip and frankly I'd need to watch it multiple times to get the content to stick - the abstracted distance mechanics do not help!
Your assumption of emotion is weird. I don't care about KT as I never intend to play it. However, I find that it takes them 3 minutes to describe how to see things to be very funny (and stupid). I feel sorry for the players who have to put up with this needlessly complicated game with so many books and scattered WD articles just to get started, and an measuring device that exists so that they can sell you more useless tat.
Your assumption of emotion is weird. I don't care about KT as I never intend to play it. However, I find that it takes them 3 minutes to describe how to see things to be very funny (and stupid). I feel sorry for the players who have to put up with this needlessly complicated game with so many books and scattered WD articles just to get started, and an measuring device that exists so that they can sell you more useless tat.
Says the guy from the outside looking in
You're also incorrect, you only need the rulebook to actually get started, unless you re one of those completionist weirdos who needs to "have it all"
You should give the game a go before bashing it. The LOS/targeting rules are notorious for being confusing to some, but they're hardly rocket science
I actually prefer even my squad level games to not be too bloated. The benefit of squad level games to me is that you can build a force and get a game in quickly, if I wanted to spend all night playing a game I'd rather play a larger game than a more complicated one.
Your assumption of emotion is weird. I don't care about KT as I never intend to play it. However, I find that it takes them 3 minutes to describe how to see things to be very funny (and stupid). I feel sorry for the players who have to put up with this needlessly complicated game with so many books and scattered WD articles just to get started, and an measuring device that exists so that they can sell you more useless tat.
Honestly, you are talking from a very weak postion here and what you are saying is objectively wrong. I have played more than a dozen games now and if anything, KT is very simple and easy to grasp. There is only one concept that could be better and that is the in cover vs obscured mechanic, because it is a bit counter intuitive and some of the wording when it comes to explosions on targets, because they are needlessly complicated formulated. I guess as a precaution, because rule lawers are trying to abuse the ever loving sh*t out of it. There are no WD rules needed to play the game, you only have additional factions. If anything the WD rules are great, because they help get the factions up to speed so that people can have more comprehensive teams until they get an official KT release. All you need is the main rule book and the rules of your faction. The only rule addtion that happened was that you can walk through doors and hatches and can climb ladders. The first ones are so simple, you wouldn't even have thought you need a rule for that. The latter one is also no issue, because if someone starts to rule monger about weather or not this model can climb the 1'' it's missing, than I would suggest they get their priorities towards "having fun while playing" in order. If anyone plays KT as a hardcore win at all costs Tournament game, then I feel sorry for them.
The measuring devices are actually not bad to be honest. I lol'ed at them first as well and the shapes could have been better, I would have gone for circle 1'', X 2'', triangle 3" and hexagon for 6", but even that is grasped quick enough. They tried a new concept that streamlines the game, boohoo. But they are very practical and I've come to no longer use the measuring tape. They really speed up the game process.
And also, KT is better than 40K in general, for the simple sake that you can feel that the design team is trying to have fun. KT has DKoK, even though 40K is crapping on IGs head since 5th edition. KT has maybe the most beautiful models for Orks, that look like 80s movies action heroes, while 40K is slapping boys players repeatedly in the face. KT has actually sort of normal looking Sororitas, where the regular are only getting releases if they have even more loadspeakers and cherubs and incence burners, than everything that is around. And now we are getting a release of a rag tag team of Eldar Corsairs, that might be some of the best looking models that were ever released for Eldar. And after 6 months, not even a single Murines because you need more Murines release that 40K is suffering from dearly. KT shoting and CC is fast, everything is done after 3 rolls and 1-2 rerolls max. Where 40K needs up to 5 rolls sometimes and rerolls and modifyiers and bookkeeping of auras and turn only effects and stratagems and and and.
If anything you might want to feel sorry with the people that have to keep up playing something that should be done by a computer simulation, but needs to be done by hand by players in 40K.
I actually prefer even my squad level games to not be too bloated. The benefit of squad level games to me is that you can build a force and get a game in quickly, if I wanted to spend all night playing a game I'd rather play a larger game than a more complicated one.
I think the point is that on a squad/team level game it is not problem with each single model having different wargear, while on platoon level each team has different wargear
but a platoon level game, with each model having different wargear, while a squad level game with each model having the same wargear would be the opposite and does not make sense
how bloated or complicated the game is, is a different problem that can be related to wargear options
The measuring devices are actually not bad to be honest. I lol'ed at them first as well and the shapes could have been better, I would have gone for circle 1'', X 2'', triangle 3" and hexagon for 6", but even that is grasped quick enough. They tried a new concept that streamlines the game, boohoo. But they are very practical and I've come to no longer use the measuring tape. They really speed up the game process.
I've only played a single game (COVID) so far and I've not been able to discern any advantage to the shapes (the ones used are not intuitive and your version would have been preferable). Have you found there's a benefit to the shapes?
I dont mind the shapes, but GW sure missed plenty of opportunities to use them creatively. With the way distances and measuring is handled now, they could have just as well used inches.
But once you memorize BLACK WHITE BLUE RED as 1 2 3 6, it's not really slowing things down all that much, and the gauges are appropriate for measuring most of the distances you need during a game. And since the range bands pretty much stop @ around 8-10" (everything being unlimited after that), a tape measure is kind of an overkill for the system.
Yeah, the shapes are frustrating because they don't currently serve much of a purpose that couldn't have otherwise been accomplished by just using numbers. They could have created some really cool, interesting, complex, and deep mechanical interactions using the shape system if they wanted to, but kinda phoned it in and left it as a really shallow half-assed implementation.
Having played the game the only advantage I see to the shapes is they keep the distances quantified and stop you adding them into one group. So four Triangles rules wise is different to two Circles or one Square. However having played the game it does really slow things down. Using the measuring tool helps but it does not excuse having to replace the humble tape measure.
Yeah I see what they were getting by having each movement be a set number but it's really difficult trying to remember which shape is which. Even worse if you don't play Kill Team regularly and have to refer to a cheat sheet every time you forget what distance a square is.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah I see what they were getting by having each movement be a set number but it's really difficult trying to remember which shape is which. Even worse if you don't play Kill Team regularly and have to refer to a cheat sheet every time you forget what distance a square is.
Well if you're using the measurement tool it shouldn't be an issue, right, because the shapes are coded to the measuring tool?
I think the bigger problem though is that intuitively the shapes don't really correlate to the distances, if only they had kept a straightforward logical progression to it where the number of sides on the shape translated to the number of inches of movement, so you could at least remember that triangle = 3" and square = 4", instead of triangle = 1", circle = 2", square = 3", etc. which makes no sense.
Evidently, as I understand it, the problem is that in playtesting they treated "color" as the key element rather than the shape, the shape was just there for accessibility with regards to people who may be colorblind. In that regard, the shapes were arbitrary to the design team and thus they didn't care to design the logical progression into it. Likely, they designed the game only ever referring to color, handed it off to graphic designers and developers, etc. who decided to add the shapes as an accessibility feature in late stage development/production, which in turn was also passed along to the plastics guys for the purposes of the movement tool, and nobody put any more thought into it because the concept of color was so ingrained into the teams head that they couldn't fathom the idea that the shape would matter.
Would probably make for an interesting psychological/sociological study to explore the color vs shape thing more, assuming the story is true.
The problem with the Kill Team rules is that they are more expensive to get into than 40K Combat Patrol.
Lets be the very best cheapskates we can be for just getting up and running with both games for a very casual game. We'll even give Kill Team a sporting chance without including the essentials kit as the contents are easily substituted...
Kill Team: The softback rule book and getting lucky if this month's White Dwarf just happens to feature your faction of choice, and a taster of the options available to that faction to at least get it to the table...£36.
40K: Free download rules + hardback Codex containing full army rules + Warhammer Community Combat Patrol articles( includes the patrol detachment template )...£30.
...now lets have a pop quiz; as a Harlequin player which game should I go for next month, when both of those options are available?
SamusDrake wrote: The problem with the Kill Team rules is that they are more expensive to get into than 40K Combat Patrol.
Lets be the very best cheapskates we can be for just getting up and running with both games for a very casual game. We'll even give Kill Team a sporting chance without including the essentials kit as the contents are easily substituted...
Kill Team: The softback rule book and getting lucky if this month's White Dwarf just happens to feature your faction of choice, and a taster of the options available to that faction to at least get it to the table...£36.
40K: Free download rules + hardback Codex containing full army rules + Warhammer Community Combat Patrol articles( includes the patrol detachment template )...£30.
...now lets have a pop quiz; as a Harlequin player which game should I go for next month, when both of those options are available?
We have to assume this being a theoretical discussion since places such as R****t are filled with posts where "cheapskate" users are looking, and finding, the full rules and codecii for both games for free.
if we skip the theoreticals and go into practicalities, the costs of fielding a "tournament grade" army for these systems should also be factored into the costs.. and must we really even go there?
So I'll just counter your argument with another:
"The problem with the Warhammer 40,000 game is that the armies are more expensive to get into than Kill Team."
We have to assume this being a theoretical discussion since places such as R****t are filled with posts where "cheapskate" users are looking, and finding, the full rules and codecii for both games for free.
if we skip the theoreticals and go into practicalities, the costs of fielding a "tournament grade" army for these systems should also be factored into the costs.. and must we really even go there?
So I'll just counter your argument with another:
"The problem with the Warhammer 40,000 game is that the armies are more expensive to get into than Kill Team."
Your counter argument would be considered if I had outright said "40K is cheaper than Kill Team", but I specifically took point with only with the price of the rules of the game, and I also made it clear that I was talking about "a very casual game" of both systems. Tournament grade is on a totally different level and I made no attempt to even go there.
There is also a difference between being miserly and hoisting the jolly roger. At that point we might as well talk about 3D printing copies of GW sculpts.
Note to moderators - I am certainly NOT suggesting such behaviour, and nor do I wish to take the thread in that direction.
And it’s so much easier than last edition. That cost me $40 and included confusing lists that covered many of my models. Sometimes I would think: These army lists should be in a separate book and cost the same as the core rules by themselves.
Part of what makes that video so long, and visibility rules so confusing in KT, is GW deliberately using phrases that confuse people (kinda like using colored shapes instead of normal units of measurement)*.
Visibility and Line of Sight being different is just, intuitively, dumb. But if you contrasted Visibility with Line of Fire, then the reason for the difference becomes clear. Someone may be visible, in that you can see somebody is over there, but not in the line of fire, because there's just too much crap between you and them to have any reasonable chance of hitting them.
I can't fathom why the writers (not the designers) of the rules decided on some of the ways that they conveyed the rules in this game, though.
*I also think they could have written the same rules more clearly either way: This model can fire over this obstacle because he is really close to it, and can stand up and look over it if he wants. This model is so close to that model that, regardless of stuff in the way, he can shoot at him, unless he just can't see him at all.This model is sneaking around under a Conceal order and can be presumed to be taking cover behind this obstacle, where this model has an Engage order, so is presumed to be actively looking over these obstacles to find foes to fight, etc.
Ancient Otter wrote: If the rumours are true that Squats are coming to KT, what are the odds they'll be up against Tyranids in a box set, rather than Catachans v Tyranids?
Rumor wasn't that Squats are coming to KT. That was people trying to make pieces fit.
Ancient Otter wrote: If the rumours are true that Squats are coming to KT, what are the odds they'll be up against Tyranids in a box set, rather than Catachans v Tyranids?
Rumor wasn't that Squats are coming to KT. That was people trying to make pieces fit.
Just that "Squats are coming".
Nope there was another rumour form the accurate discord source that said Squats where getting their own Killteam but it was potentially a long way off [whatever that means]. It was day 24 of the discord rumour calendar. Also said that harlequins where getting a new unit via killteam.
Ancient Otter wrote: If the rumours are true that Squats are coming to KT, what are the odds they'll be up against Tyranids in a box set, rather than Catachans v Tyranids?
Rumor wasn't that Squats are coming to KT. That was people trying to make pieces fit.
Just that "Squats are coming".
Nope there was another rumour form the accurate discord source that said Squats where getting their own Killteam but it was potentially a long way off [whatever that means]. It was day 24 of the discord rumour calendar. Also said that harlequins where getting a new unit via killteam.
Harlequin killteam is getting rules in the next issue of White Dwarf so I really doubt they would get both a set of WD Killteam rules and then a new unit in a Killteam release.
lord_blackfang wrote:Do we know anything about the Corsairs' opponents now?
Not yet
SamusDrake wrote:Wondering if it will be only a Corsairs expansion for the game. Maybe bringing an element of piracy to Kill Team, that we haven't seen before?
They will be released firstin Kill Team: Nachmund set, so probably will have opponents with like the Octarius and Chalnath sets.
Ancient Otter wrote: If the rumours are true that Squats are coming to KT, what are the odds they'll be up against Tyranids in a box set, rather than Catachans v Tyranids?
Rumor wasn't that Squats are coming to KT. That was people trying to make pieces fit.
Just that "Squats are coming".
Nope there was another rumour form the accurate discord source that said Squats where getting their own Killteam but it was potentially a long way off [whatever that means]. It was day 24 of the discord rumour calendar. Also said that harlequins where getting a new unit via killteam.
Nope, sorry.
That was the first credible mention of Squats in the Bolter & Chainsword leak list.
Per Bob on War of Sigmar, Squats are "more than a Kill Team". He made that specific notation since the usual dumpsterfires of rumormongering immediately latched onto that list and said that Squats would be "just" a Kill Team like the Rogue Traders initially got released as.
Does that mean that a Squat KT isn't going to happen? No. But like I said: The rumor started by people trying to make the leaks fit.
Oh yeah, and worth mentioning that the Discord leaker seems to have just been someone with a book. That doesn't actually mean they have knowledge of upcoming releases or the like. Just that they had a book.
So far the rumors from that have been spot on, and a lot of other rumor bundles have broken off from that one, some credible, some not.
As it is, the Chaos Marine rumors have been heating up with a rumor that the Corsairs will be going up against "Chaos Marine Legionaries" assumed to be a box of Chaos Marines with an extra sprue of kill team options, including a baleful tome for psychic stuff, a double-handed chainaxe, and a daemon blade for the aspiring champion. Will be real interesting to see how that shakes out, but GW is playing real cagey.
With the Eldar still not going up for preorder (delays surely hit them hard, since by now we know just about everything about them), they're likely playing things close to the chest to make sure that hype over a Chaos release doesn't stymie the Eldar or upcoming Tyranid Codex releases.
The measuring devices are actually not bad to be honest. I lol'ed at them first as well and the shapes could have been better, I would have gone for circle 1'', X 2'', triangle 3" and hexagon for 6", but even that is grasped quick enough. They tried a new concept that streamlines the game, boohoo. But they are very practical and I've come to no longer use the measuring tape. They really speed up the game process.
I've only played a single game (COVID) so far and I've not been able to discern any advantage to the shapes (the ones used are not intuitive and your version would have been preferable). Have you found there's a benefit to the shapes?
The thing about the shapes is that they want to get you into different form of movements, you don't move 6", you move 3 times 2" straight lines. Or less if you are injured.
All modifications are always in these discrete increments and what the shapes do is formalize this in a way that actually easier to grasp and formulate rules wise.
If you want an obnoxious counter example, see the Leman Russ Lumbering Behemoth Rule: If the tank moves less than half it's speed, it can fire twice. If it has 10" movement, that means, it can move 4.99999999999", but never 5". 40K is full of these way too granular rules that can be introduced, because the ruleset sets no minimal measuring distance. KT is more like moving on a 1" hexgrid in that respect and the rules have no way to cirumvent this (at this point). This greatly helps to speed up the movement process. Same as the tool. Because the board is small and usually tight (if you have decent terrain) you will actually have a hard time even just fitting the measuring tape. But with the tool, you can move quite quick along the increments. in combination, this makes the game a little less competetive, because you stop caring to measure every possible distance all the time and focus on the gameplay itself. Less standing around waiting, less reading your rules because they are so minimally different (looking at you 52 bolter variants) more time having fun with your friends. As I said, don't play KT for competetiveness, or you will have a bad time eventually.
The other advantage might be accessibility. I have no disability, but shapes/colors are supposed to be more accessible to people with calculatory/numerical/reading issues. But as I said, it doesn't affect me and as such I can't comment.
You’ll be able to dominate the battlefield with a range of operatives. Like to gun down your enemies from distance? The Heavy Gunner’s reaper chaincannon will cut a swathe through your foes. Prefer to get up close and personal? The Shrivetalon is bound to leave a mark with his flensing blades. Need some psychic support? That’s where the Balefire Acolyte comes in.
These operatives are painted up in Black Legion colours (the home for ambitious heretics of any persuasion) but these kit enhancements would look at home in most other Legions. The giant axe is perhaps indication of a Khornate mindset, while the Butcher’s fondness for flayed skin could be indicative of a Nostraman origin. The Balefire Acolite has a book and some flames – the symbolism is obvious for any follower of The Word.
Some very nice bits for us word bearers. Models are hit or miss, but I like that the chaotic mk vi helmet has an additional version with horns and a tongue. Love that style of helmet so it’ll be a fine addition to my collection
They look cool.
I would like to do a chaos warband so Kill Team fits great.
I’m not really sure what bits are new aside from the big noticeable gun/axe, and assumed champion and sorcerer pieces there.
Oguhmek wrote: Nice. I was hoping for some new terrain however, but alas.
Agreed. How many times can they repackage the Sector Mechanicus terrain ?!!
I love it. I have LOTS of it. I just don't need or want more of it.
And especially not in a pricey box set of stuff I DO want.
I also wonder how much it’ll be solo.
What did the Guard and Kommandos solo release at?
Chaos Marines are already £35, so I guess it won’t be cheap with an extra Sprue.
Isn't it hilarious they finally give the regular CSM access to Chainaxes, and the option finally isn't confined to the Combat Patrol... and then the Codex removes the distinction between them and the other options
The terrain pieces choices kind of spoil the whole box for me. I love all the minis, and Sector Mechanicus is cool, but they chose the most useless pieces possible (aside from that single big silo piece).
Dammit, They did end up getting me to buy two Nachmund themed releases after all; this box and the upcoming Nachmund terrain they already revealed.
lord_blackfang wrote: Terrain is fairly comparable to Wazrone Charadon. Not great, not terrible. If the box is 140€ like the previous one was it's a good deal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I'm super out of the loop, is that CSM squad all new or is the an upgrade sprue?
To quote the WarCom post:
"Much like the T’au Pathfinders from the Kill Team: Chalnath set, this box provides a ton of new customisation options for an existing kit. "
It's nice that chaos marines are getting an upgrade sprue, but I think this is missed opportunity. I wish the explored other chaos options like renegade guard like they did with eldar corsairs.
clodax66 wrote: It's nice that chaos marines are getting an upgrade sprue, but I think this is missed opportunity. I wish the explored other chaos options like renegade guard like they did with eldar corsairs.
They already did that with Blackstone Fortress, which snuck back into the webstore this past weekend...
Plus they gotta save something for the CSM release, right?
To be fair its the first time theyve done sector mechanicum terrain for nu-kill team. Octarius was ork terrain, chalnath was the rehash of the imperial city ruins terrain. This doesnt bode well for any potential Mechanicus kill team boxes in the future though, as it would be a bit of a no-brainer to stick them in there. Heres hoping that a future kill team box has an aquila strongpoint in the box or something XD, though it very much feels like GW is avoiding putting in any terrain that could be used as a fortification in 40k (hence no tau terrain in chalnath, even though they have enough terrain/fortification kits that they could have done a pretty interesting kill team board with.
lol, well phrased, and yeah that was my first thought as well, has a clear visual similarity. Wouldn't be surprised if they just took that part from the greater possessed sculpts and chopped it up/modified it to work with the CSM kit.
To be fair its the first time theyve done sector mechanicum terrain for nu-kill team. Octarius was ork terrain, chalnath was the rehash of the imperial city ruins terrain. This doesnt bode well for any potential Mechanicus kill team boxes in the future though, as it would be a bit of a no-brainer to stick them in there. Heres hoping that a future kill team box has an aquila strongpoint in the box or something XD, though it very much feels like GW is avoiding putting in any terrain that could be used as a fortification in 40k (hence no tau terrain in chalnath, even though they have enough terrain/fortification kits that they could have done a pretty interesting kill team board with.
There's still room for a catwalk focused Sector Mechanicum box I think.
clodax66 wrote: It's nice that chaos marines are getting an upgrade sprue, but I think this is missed opportunity. I wish the explored other chaos options like renegade guard like they did with eldar corsairs.
Also to add to the other replies.
I think we will always/quite often see one new and one standard/upgrade one. Depending how many of these they do.
The Ork/Korps one I guess was different as it’s the new official starter.
I’d love for it to be two new things each time. Was hoping it was with the Chaos but at least it had an upgrade, and they do look alright.
Is this a really old kit though the marines? Or was it redone in the past X years?
clodax66 wrote: It's nice that chaos marines are getting an upgrade sprue, but I think this is missed opportunity. I wish the explored other chaos options like renegade guard like they did with eldar corsairs.
Also to add to the other replies.
I think we will always/quite often see one new and one standard/upgrade one. Depending how many of these they do.
The Ork/Korps one I guess was different as it’s the new official starter.
I’d love for it to be two new things each time. Was hoping it was with the Chaos but at least it had an upgrade, and they do look alright.
Is this a really old kit though the marines? Or was it redone in the past X years?
Was 2019 I believe, was part of the last proper Chaos wave.
To be fair its the first time theyve done sector mechanicum terrain for nu-kill team. Octarius was ork terrain, chalnath was the rehash of the imperial city ruins terrain. This doesnt bode well for any potential Mechanicus kill team boxes in the future though, as it would be a bit of a no-brainer to stick them in there. Heres hoping that a future kill team box has an aquila strongpoint in the box or something XD, though it very much feels like GW is avoiding putting in any terrain that could be used as a fortification in 40k (hence no tau terrain in chalnath, even though they have enough terrain/fortification kits that they could have done a pretty interesting kill team board with.
There's still room for a catwalk focused Sector Mechanicum box I think.
Yep, you're right, so we probably have at least one more mechanicum terrain box in our future for kill team. Honestly, can't really complain about catwalk terrain, I think its the one thing that everyone wants more of and nobody has enough of, simply because until recently it wasn't possible to buy the catwalks separately from the furnaces/vents/reactors, etc. I wonder if they'll ever do the Necromunda HIve Terrain as part of a kill team release - its not necessarily the best for 40k proper (unless GW put out Zone Mortalis rules for 9th ed? Have they done that already in one of the campaign books? Not sure) but it should work really well for kill team (and would be more representative of combat in a hive city than the actual "imperial city" terrain that GW has been pushing for 40k use). As I said before I am also holding out hope for a wall of martyrs box of some sort, as I regret not buying firestorm redoubts and aquila strongpoints and more bunkers and trenchlines when I had the chance previously. Maybe whatever the next Battlezone box is will feature that.
TBH, I had hoped, based on Octarius, that GW would push more new terrain kits. I knew that we would be seeing rereleases of existing terrain, of course, but I thought maybe GW might alternate back and forth (I.E. Orks in Octarius, Imperium in Chalnath, Chaos or Aeldari in Nachmund, Imperium in whatever comes next, etc.).
Was hoping for pretty much.... any other terrain, but I've got plenty of people that will happily buy up more of that mechanicus terrain.
Chaos sprue looks to be full of goodies. Don't care about the heads, but all those other options for a psuedo-possessed, a butcher, a reaper chaincannon, heavy chainaxe, bunch of awesome stuff in there that will make for a real flavorful team, I'm sure.
Of course that's on top of the weapons that are already in the box. Standard stuff like melta gun, flamer, plasma gun, but also the missile launcher, heavy bolter, the icons, a bunch of chainswords and bolt pistols as well as choice of axe, power fist, and maul for the champion.
Combine this with the Chosen box that came out in Eldritch Omens and you really should have no problem making a real thematic and characterful squad.
The terrain in the box is pretty lacking. Whoever build the box contents did their damnedest to stretch it out and cover as much ground as possible, but even so, it's clear that this could'a done with an extra sprue or two. Or even just the stuff they previewed a while back (didn't they call that 'Nachmund' terrain? ).
Anyway, I want two of Malibu Stacey's new hat those big chainaxes...
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Isn't it hilarious they finally give the regular CSM access to Chainaxes, and the option finally isn't confined to the Combat Patrol... and then the Codex removes the distinction between them and the other options
Only in Chosen and Terminator units though. Gotta be internally consistent.
Some of the new CSM head options look a bit silly but I like the new weapon options. Sector Mechanicus scenery is quite a lame choice but if the boxed set is within similar price range as Chalnath, I could consider picking this up.
The interesting part is that the Chaos Marine kit doesn't actually have a ton of bare-headed options, so I'm not really surprised to see so many added by this.
I LOVE that happy Chaos champ. I'm not going to be getting the set, but goodness if it fell into my hands one way or another I'd love to use it one something.
I'm not sure if I should start playing the long game with these KT boxes.. If it's always gonna be one old team + old terrain, might as well just wait for ~6 months for the box contents to become available separately. I don't really need a constant influx of new stuff to keep on playing anyways.. Even my Octarius box is still unglued & unpainted LOL
Kanluwen wrote: All I know is that the guy wielding the twin-pronged sword here is having a great Monday!
Does it bother anyone else that there is no way he could have drawn that pistol with the hand holding it? No? Just me?
It's not like that plasma pistol even fits inside that holster anyways.
Nor does a bolt pistol. But that's just a matter of convention. Look at that Primaris shield guys and their humongous pistol holster that may actually fit their oversized pistols. I can appreciate that GW does not oversize non-Primaris pistol holsters. Because frankly those Primaris ones are one of the stupidest things about GW's heroic scale.
I don't know the kit, so I don't know if there are any left-handed pistol arms in there. If there are, this model is just poorly assembled. If there aren't, that's something the designer should have considered when placing the holster.
Maybe he’s a lefty, so holsters the pistol on His strong side, but at this point also needed to draw his sword on his dominant side. Maybe he needed to aim around a left hand corner and swapped hands. I just think it’s needlessly critical to judge the quality of the modeller or the sculptor on the specific position of holster compared to current pistol location.
Flinty wrote: Maybe he’s a lefty, so holsters the pistol on His strong side, but at this point also needed to draw his sword on his dominant side. Maybe he needed to aim around a left hand corner and swapped hands. I just think it’s needlessly critical to judge the quality of the modeller or the sculptor on the specific position of holster compared to current pistol location.
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
In a time when these little addon bits are integrated into the relevant body parts instead of being separate pieces you can attach wherever you like, I don't find it unnecessarily critical to expect some thought from the manufacturer to go into these things.
Another example? Novitiates have integrated, empty pistol holsters. Which is fine if you build them with pistols and swords equipped. If you equip them with the basic loadout instead, their autoguns are supposed to be supplemented with holstered autopistols. Yet the holsters are empty. Why aren't there pistol grip inserts that can be glued into the holsters on the sprue? It would make sense to have those, and not take up much sprue space at that. Did nobody think of that? Were they really that hard up for sprue space?
It's not the end of the world. I'm not asking for the sculptors to be lynched or anything. But these things stand out to me so why wouldn't I point them out?
I honestly hate when models have holsters pre-attached to their armor. It's something the chaos space marines suffer from a lot. One of the worst examples is the Chosen Champion. He's got an empty holster on his belt, but unless you decide to give him a bolt pistol, it just makes no sense. You can't even try to model a grip in the holster, because they also crammed a bunch of pouches and grenades on his belt that are connected to and overlap the holster.
Flinty wrote: Maybe he drew the pistol with the other hand and swapped before drawing the sword?
However he did it, he‘s clearly having a great day at work!
There's been fluff about people maging their weapons to their armor.
Yup. Clearly the gun just clamps onto his right thigh and the holster is for something else. Could even just be a big ol’ pouch of course since we can’t see the other side of it. Question is what is in there? Lunch? Tzeenchian tarot cards (they all say “just as planned” but in different fonts and languages)?
It's a modern day chaos marine; they're not just spikey normal marines anymore. For all we know, he has a sentient rectal demon tentacle that draws it for him.
I'm fine with empty or wrong-sized holsters. Even if I go on a 3-hour larp adventure, chances are I will have drawn, dropped, picked up, and swapped hands with every weapon I'm carrying, at least three times each. Some of these dudes have been on an even tougher larp for like 10,000 years. Who knows how many pistols and holsters they've owned, drawn, shot, broken while braining a Catachan with, etc.
Basic Chosen Tactics 101. They each draw their pistols from the holster of the guy standing to their right. The last guy on the right is always the chaincannon. Now that's fething teamwork!
Another example? Novitiates have integrated, empty pistol holsters. Which is fine if you build them with pistols and swords equipped. If you equip them with the basic loadout instead, their autoguns are supposed to be supplemented with holstered autopistols. Yet the holsters are empty. Why aren't there pistol grip inserts that can be glued into the holsters on the sprue? It would make sense to have those, and not take up much sprue space at that. Did nobody think of that? Were they really that hard up for sprue space?
One of the novitiates - the one drawing her sword - does have that pistol grip insert included.
The greatest part of the novitiates is that they alone in the grim darkness of the far future practice trigger discipline!
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Basic Chosen Tactics 101. They each draw their pistols from the holster of the guy standing to their right. The last guy on the right is always the chaincannon. Now that's fething teamwork!
Shakalooloo wrote: The greatest part of the novitiates is that they alone in the grim darkness of the far future practice trigger discipline!
Aw, you have to cut them some slack. They're young and they don't know any better. They'll loosen up in time and show the same rampart disregard for the lives of their fellow humans like everyone else in the Imperium.
Flinty wrote: Maybe he’s a lefty, so holsters the pistol on His strong side, but at this point also needed to draw his sword on his dominant side. Maybe he needed to aim around a left hand corner and swapped hands. I just think it’s needlessly critical to judge the quality of the modeller or the sculptor on the specific position of holster compared to current pistol location.
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
Nope. There are multiple reasons why you would want the holster facing that way even for off hand (for a very big one, because it makes drawing the sword vastly more practical, and was in fact preferred cavalrymen way of holstering weapons for hundreds of years), and equally multiple techniques to draw it (see demonstrations here):
I like how GW is constantly criticized for being unrealistic, but recently, it seems the stuff that gets endlessly complained about and criticized the most is how real life armed forces actually do/design stuff, funnily enough
Given these rules previews, I won't be surprised if the KT box shows up in the Sunday pre-order preview this week.
The last strat in that article. The one that lets you dash in the strategy phase; does that extra dash actually mean you can dash twice in a turn as the article implies?
Given these rules previews, I won't be surprised if the KT box shows up in the Sunday pre-order preview this week.
The last strat in that article. The one that lets you dash in the strategy phase; does that extra dash actually mean you can dash twice in a turn as the article implies?
Yes, a lot of factions have similar strategic ploys. Be aware though, that this is not in combination with Aeldari Agility, because that one only triggers during activation
So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
Only in the missions where objectives can be carried though. In missions where objectives cannot be carried, the restriction does not apply.
But are you sure one cannot dash and charge in the same activation? I have always thought dash + charge is a valid move, since move + dash is.. If you are correct, that reduces possible monement to BLUE+4xWHITE, which does sound much more reasonable though..
Ahh, I see now that you are right and I have been playing this one wrong the entire time! charge indeed cannot be combined with any other movement action (including move, dash & fall back) which occurs within an operative's activation, therefore max charge distance of a Corsair will be 11". But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible? Even this would give fusion pistols an 18" threat range (3xRED for yall KT21 heads) while the strat is active..
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr_Rose wrote: We haven’t seen their defensive stats have we?
Being glass cannon (5 or 6 wounds) could be the balance lever on their ridiculous movement.
They could even be 7 wounds and it wouldn't help BLACK bit against CSM, who are usually rocking bolters.. It is doubtful the Corsairs will have a good save, and almost certain their DF will be 3 like everyone else. They will have some sort of protective aura operative though, so staying alive after leaving themselves exposed will probably require synergy play with this aura ability.
tauist wrote: But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible?
You cannot Charge and Dash in the same Activation. Any movement during another phase is not during an Activation, so we are good to go here.
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
I think Poxwalkers exist to be in the way. Nothing else.
Well, if anything, Corsairs will be quite flexible as a team. They got a sniper, deep striking melee specialist, defensive aura op, psyker, spotter (the guy with the falcon), and who knows what else.. Starting to sound like a team which can take on all comers with a skilled player at the helms, without even needing to swap out operatives from the roster for every opponent.
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
Nope. There are multiple reasons why you would want the holster facing that way even for off hand (for a very big one, because it makes drawing the sword vastly more practical, and was in fact preferred cavalrymen way of holstering weapons for hundreds of years), and equally multiple techniques to draw it (see demonstrations here):
I like how GW is constantly criticized for being unrealistic, but recently, it seems the stuff that gets endlessly complained about and criticized the most is how real life armed forces actually do/design stuff, funnily enough
Can it be done? Sure. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. Is it normal. No way. As someone with 10+ years experience in the infantry and combat police, and 30ish years of regular shooting, this is not the way anyone carries a handgun on a regular basis. Even the article you provided was about drawing weak handed if you have to, not as a normal carry.
As far as complaining or criticizing, it was a minor thing that was pointed out. No one said it was a bad model, or that it was unrealistic. We were just poking fun. I happen to actually love the models, and was more just frustrated that damn near every mellee weapon is carried in the left hand. And as there is no scabbard for his sword, we have no idea how he draws it. The is plenty of fluff talking about mag clamping it to the leg, back, or even the power pack. But most importantly, pointing out what we don't like about a model is just as valid as pointing out what we do like.
But aside from that, I did like the article. Thanks for posting it.
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
Nope. There are multiple reasons why you would want the holster facing that way even for off hand (for a very big one, because it makes drawing the sword vastly more practical, and was in fact preferred cavalrymen way of holstering weapons for hundreds of years), and equally multiple techniques to draw it (see demonstrations here):
I like how GW is constantly criticized for being unrealistic, but recently, it seems the stuff that gets endlessly complained about and criticized the most is how real life armed forces actually do/design stuff, funnily enough
Can it be done? Sure. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. Is it normal. No way. As someone with 10+ years experience in the infantry and combat police, and 30ish years of regular shooting, this is not the way anyone carries a handgun on a regular basis. Even the article you provided was about drawing weak handed if you have to, not as a normal carry.
As far as complaining or criticizing, it was a minor thing that was pointed out. No one said it was a bad model, or that it was unrealistic. We were just poking fun. I happen to actually love the models, and was more just frustrated that damn near every mellee weapon is carried in the left hand. And as there is no scabbard for his sword, we have no idea how he draws it. The is plenty of fluff talking about mag clamping it to the leg, back, or even the power pack. But most importantly, pointing out what we don't like about a model is just as valid as pointing out what we do like.
But aside from that, I did like the article. Thanks for posting it.
I think Irbis is referring specifically to the cavalry draw in the article, which was normal in conjunction with a sword on the other hip. It looks to be a method of carry designed to allow the pistol to be drawn easily by either hand.
Only just now noticed a WHC article on Corsairs for 40K. Says that the troops version of Corsairs come equipped with shuriken pistols and power swords, so am quite sure this loadout will be an alternative buld option for most models in the kit, just like you can make Veteran Guardsmen all have lasguns. Summa summarum, I'd wager that one will need to buy two kits for all the options, or rather, buying the Nachmund box when it releases and then also buying a separate kit when released some 6 months later.
OTOH, considering how accurately ebay sellers estimate their prices, it's probably just the same buying the corsairs individually from split box sellers. I remember when Octarius launched, was thinking to myself it'd be better to wait for the DKoK kit to be released separately from GW, as I foolishly presumed the ofcGW kit would be more affordable than buying split content from ebay — turned out I was wrong and the split ebay prices were almost an exact match to GW's retail price 6 months later!
Less than 12 hours to go for "Next week in Warhammer".. It's coming!
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
Only in the missions where objectives can be carried though. In missions where objectives cannot be carried, the restriction does not apply.
But are you sure one cannot dash and charge in the same activation? I have always thought dash + charge is a valid move, since move + dash is.. If you are correct, that reduces possible monement to BLUE+4xWHITE, which does sound much more reasonable though..
Ahh, I see now that you are right and I have been playing this one wrong the entire time! charge indeed cannot be combined with any other movement action (including move, dash & fall back) which occurs within an operative's activation, therefore max charge distance of a Corsair will be 11". But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible? Even this would give fusion pistols an 18" threat range (3xRED for yall KT21 heads) while the strat is active..
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
Careful, RAW: It just says that the marker is not being carried, an objective marker that can not be carried is also not being carried. RAI: The rule is called plunderers, that makes it objective centric.
I would still argue that you have to move towards the nearest marker.
Considering dash, easiest to remember is: you can only dash and move regularly. And you can only move, or fall back or charge. If you want to combine beyond that, you need a special rule. Also don't forget that free actions are still limited, the only advantage is that they are AP 0 costwise. Hence a free dash is only really useful for shooting models, I haven't run genestealers since I figured that out. Gaunts are 100% more useful. But yes, with pistol models, that can be quite effective.
Poxwalkers main disadvantage is their short range and that they can't do actions. They are not useless though, they can pretty much saturate a zone and can tank a lot of damage. Combined with 3 Plague Marines it is fairly strong, even for a Compendium list. Hence I am surprised the CSM team is not 3 CSM + 5 Renegades. A missed opportunity in my opinion. 5-6 Marine lists have big disadvantage when it comes to area control.
Regarding terrain, always fill up the alleys and deplyoment zones that the missions define with low level hard/soft terrain. The standard missions are shooting galaries and highly disfavor CC teams. With more pipes/crates/barrels to hide, the game is a lot more interesting and still not unbalanced, because you can shoot from higher ground. The reason that the standard missions are so gakky laid out is, that it only includes the supplied terrain. That is mission design with an armed tied behind your back. If you need such terain, we found the Containers from GW good. They come with lots of ammo crates and barrels. Plus you can build the containers as tunnels or hideouts.
The Eldar versus Chaos box is up for pre-order next week. Also Novitiates, Pathfinders, rules and terrain from the previous box will be released separately.
tauist wrote: Only just now noticed a WHC article on Corsairs for 40K. Says that the troops version of Corsairs come equipped with shuriken pistols and power swords, so am quite sure this loadout will be an alternative buld option for most models in the kit, just like you can make Veteran Guardsmen all have lasguns.
I think we've seen the generic 40k version, in the pic of the corsairs with all Dark Eldar helmets fighting alongside Yvraine.
Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
Those are the Shuriken Rifles, not Catapults.
My bad, I didn't know such a weapon even existed. My codex hasn't arrived yet. Either way, the question remains valid. Is there an option to build the models with Shuriken Pistols and Power Swords in addition to what we have already seen?
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
Those are the Shuriken Rifles, not Catapults.
My bad, I didn't know such a weapon even existed. My codex hasn't arrived yet. Either way, the question remains valid. Is there an option to build the models with Shuriken Pistols and Power Swords in addition to what we have already seen?
Almost certainly. The Codex unit entry defaults to pistol and power sword with the option to replace both with the rifle. The Voidscarred are the same but they get extra ‘character’ options. Both have the same special and heavy weapon options but the voidscarred can additionally take a ranger rifle, a fusion pistol, and a bird.
No idea why the fusion pistol replaces a sword instead of the model’s shuriken pistol though…
Anyway the point is that the rifles are the “upgrade” option and not the default equipment and it would be very silly to release a unit without the ability to have at least some of them carry their basic gear. Not that I will rule it out 100% but…
Voidscarred(the Elite version which is also effectively the Kill Team) are the only ones IIRC that get the option to upgrade a model to the Fusion Pistol+Shuriken Pistol...allowing for you to not feel slighted by building the Starstorm Duellist for KT.
This includes a new Balance Dataslate. Some fireteams (SM, GK, CW, DG sometimes) can take 1 more warrior. And Necron get free reanimation protocol tactival ploy.
I'm guessing Corsairs will be available separately for 45€ around Q2 when the next KT box hits preorder. After the price hike of today, bespoke team kits will be 45€ and old kits + upgrade sprue will be 42.50€
The balance dataslate seems like a sloppy take tbh. They should have just updated the FAQs instead. Yay, one more document to keep track of..
At least pathfinders finally got hit by the nerfbat. Maybe people will be playing them again.
All marines except Scouts and Firstborn getting one extra model makes DW easily the best Astartes team now. I think I also want to try running 5 Heavy Interecessors sometime..
I feel a bit bummed by the regular AdMech team getting legended. I was planning to make a Sicarian heavy team one day.. Now I'll only be able to field 4 Sicarians at the most, grrr!
Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
Nice to see the balance dataslate though. The adjustments are small but meaningful. Giving Space Marines another body for most of their squads is pretty nice, since they were really struggling.
drbored wrote: Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
I care a great deal about terrain, but the terrain in there ain't the greatest terrain. There are no walkways and no domes. Even a single Generator would give them a nice objective to fight over. It's one stack, a pair of furnaces and a bunch of pipes, and two little plasma Regulators.
They've taken one of the few remaining sets of modular terrain GW sells and managed to present it in its lease modular fashion.
drbored wrote: Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
I care a great deal about terrain, but the terrain in there ain't the greatest terrain. There are no walkways and no domes. Even a single Generator would give them a nice objective to fight over. It's one stack, a pair of furnaces and a bunch of pipes, and two little plasma Regulators.
They've taken one of the few remaining sets of modular terrain GW sells and managed to present it in its lease modular fashion.
this is true, and certainly annoying, but instead I'm looking at the terrain I got from Chalnath and wondering 'How can I combine these two?'
A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.
I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af
Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..
A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.
I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af
Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..
Only really space marines are 3 APL so I'd be pretty surprised if Corsairs were above 2 APL. With a lot of these specialists, you can also only have one of them, which means a lucky round of bolter fire can remove a problematic unit from the table pretty quick.
I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...
A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.
I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af
Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..
Only really space marines are 3 APL so I'd be pretty surprised if Corsairs were above 2 APL. With a lot of these specialists, you can also only have one of them, which means a lucky round of bolter fire can remove a problematic unit from the table pretty quick.
I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...
I think it's only one die, but with a reroll (weapon stat is supposedly 3/5, Lethal 5+, relentless, number of attacks unknown). A full complement of dice from the weapon would be too powerful, especially since the opponent cannot save nor parry.
About that lucky round of bolter fire, IME, the only way to keep operatives with less than 8 wounds alive is to not expose them to shooting in the first place. And with this operative being able to do pretty much everything during a conceal order, all they will need is some light cover and you can't shoot them at all. The op has fly as well so terrain does not slow down their movement, even easier to get behind cover..
I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...
I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...
The ability says "roll one attack dice".
Ok, just making sure that I read that right.
And honestly, I don't think it's going to be that busted.
A whole army of these sorts of models? That'd be problematic, but only one? You dance around it, maybe feed it chaff, lure it out, or use other strats/weapons to merc it. It becomes a fun game of chess, while also trying to reach your own objectives and stop your opponent from getting theirs.
So is the Chaos Marine Kill Team actually 10 models in game (which seems a lot) or is it just there are ten on the sprue they're reusing, but the rules will have you taking smaller fire teams?
deano2099 wrote: So is the Chaos Marine Kill Team actually 10 models in game (which seems a lot) or is it just there are ten on the sprue they're reusing, but the rules will have you taking smaller fire teams?
It's just reusing of the sprue with an added extra sprue to give the KT options and for regular 40K to spice it a bit up. The Killteam will likely be 5-6 CSM, everything else would be way too overpowered.
Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.
Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.
I guess they hope for stuff like someone dashes in, turns off the cover and you shred the enemy style events.
Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.
I guess they hope for stuff like someone dashes in, turns off the cover and you shred the enemy style events.
I actually quite like the interaction with the power core. Like do you send an operative over to grab that CP, and if you do what’s the risk of them getting to it before the enemy. And if you do spot the enemy going to grab it, is it worth sending one of your over to either grab it before them or sabotage it and take a chance on blowing themselves up too. I think it will play very differently depending on if it’s close to a primary objective or not.
So now the 18 cards bundled with March issue of White Dwarf have been revealed. They are the 3 faction specific tac ops cards for the KT21 box set teams released so far (Vet Guard, Kommandos, Novitiates, Pathfinders, Corsairs, Chaos Legionnaires).
The shoulda made it 19 cards and included a corrected version of "Rob & Ransack" card which released with typos in the text content.
They do apparently seem to be actual physical cards though, and not just a set of pages you can cut out and glue onto cardboard yourself.
It'll be interesting to see if you need to cut these out of the card pages, or if they'll be die-cut in advance - I've seen both since White Dwarf started to include card content again.
Yeah, there’s cards and there’s card. It would be preferable if they were the same dimensions as the card set supplied separately, and also didn’t have little stubs of card sticking out where they were attached to the host magazine.
Yeah, I'm not gonna get those. The generic Mission 1-3 ones are good enough for me. Also, it would need to be 36 cards, because the mission cards come in black and orange back colours.
WD474 Harlequin rules have apparently leaked, along with pictures of the cards. They are physical cards, but unfortunately they have those marks on the corners so I'm not sure how they can be disguised to look like all the other KT21 cards. GW Fail
The Harlequin rules themselves are kinda cool. The troupe can score VPs by enacting a "performance", chosen at the start of the battle. You can change your play once per battle, kind of like how the Hunter Clade protocols work.
8 models per team, Death Jester and Shadowseer included. You can now only include one fusion pistol & neurodisruptor per team. Not what I'd call a hard nerf tho, will be interesting to see how this new team will perform. Some people online already declaring as OP cheese so YMMV
A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.
I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af
Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..
I don't think this mechanic is actually that powerful.
It's a Normal Move action, which means you can only even get in Engagement Range if the enemy Op is already engaged with someone else.
I don't see anything in the rule that allows them to bypass that.
That makes it a kinda niche situation tbh.
A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.
I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af
Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..
I don't think this mechanic is actually that powerful.
It's a Normal Move action, which means you can only even get in Engagement Range if the enemy Op is already engaged with someone else.
I don't see anything in the rule that allows them to bypass that.
That makes it a kinda niche situation tbh.
They have Fly, on account of the warp pack. It says so in the article.
Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.
8 models per team, Death Jester and Shadowseer included. You can now only include one fusion pistol & neurodisruptor per team. Not what I'd call a hard nerf tho, will be interesting to see how this new team will perform. Some people online already declaring as OP cheese so YMMV
I await the day Fly becomes measure diagonal distance as a slight nerf because it gets silly in some terrain set ups...
I agree, FLY feels a lot more like teleportation than it does jumping.
It's alright for 40k, but Killteam is small enough scale they can be a little more granular.
Problem is 6" move wouldn't be enough to clear up a building and back down again, which would make FLY slightly redundant.
Perhaps a simpler and just as successful method would be to allow them to ignore Light/Traversible terrain, but still be blocked by Heavy terrain as normal (but get to climb buildings from anywhere).
Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?
I guess it depends if you think a double handed chainaxe, a chaincannnon, and some bald heads and knives are worth $100+
spiralingcadaver wrote: Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?
Which starter would that be? The upcoming Nachmund box is an expansion, you need the Core Rules and tokens etc to play Nachmund.
If you are talking about the KT21 starter box which comes with Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos, that one is the cheapest way to get into KT21, assuming you resell the models once you've bought the starter.
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kirotheavenger wrote: Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.
I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.
IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.
kirotheavenger wrote: Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.
I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.
IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.
Wouldn't be the first time GW has published a rule that doesn't work as intended RAW...
Or perhaps it's intended that you're supposed to engage the enemy with another Harlequin, then dart in for a slash whilst they're distracted?
What Ploy are you referring to? A Harli one? I don't see such a thing in their list. I do see one that does kinda the reverse - it allows you to Dash or Charge whilst within Engagement Range, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?
FLY rather conspicuously doesn't mention anything Engagement Range, so I really don't see how it would let you ignore that restriction.
Ok, yeah, I suspected it after Maugan Ra was released for 10% more than other special characters, but this new pre-order price proves my theory!
The new KT box just went up for Pre-Order in Oz. It's AUD$320, 10% more than Octarius.
This means GW didn't technically lie when they said they weren't raising the prices in Oz. They just didn't tell the whole truth. The existing models are staying the same, but all new releases are getting the same price hike as the rest of the world.
That new price point for this box set is a bitter pill. Shame as I was liking the corsairs, even had a colour scheme figured out and everything lol. Guess I'll wait for an individual release in the future sometime and see how I feel then.
kirotheavenger wrote: Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.
I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.
IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.
Wouldn't be the first time GW has published a rule that doesn't work as intended RAW...
Or perhaps it's intended that you're supposed to engage the enemy with another Harlequin, then dart in for a slash whilst they're distracted?
What Ploy are you referring to? A Harli one? I don't see such a thing in their list. I do see one that does kinda the reverse - it allows you to Dash or Charge whilst within Engagement Range, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?
FLY rather conspicuously doesn't mention anything Engagement Range, so I really don't see how it would let you ignore that restriction.
I was referring to the Tactical Ploy "Reposition" the Pathfinder team has. It allows a dash which can be performed through Engagement but cannot end within.
I was referring to the Tactical Ploy "Reposition" the Pathfinder team has. It allows a dash which can be performed through Engagement but cannot end within.
Oh I see.
Reading it, it explictly calls out that you can move within engagement range - fly does not.
Looking at the sprue pics of the Corsairs, it seems that the alternative build for them is in fact a shuriken catapult, not pistols and power weapons?
Also, alas, seems that the cloaks aren't optional and include the upper back parts of the models. What a shame. I need to check if I could somehow use back pieces from other Eldar kits in lieu of the caped back pieces..
EDIT: I am mistaken — it's a three sprue kit! Including both shuriken catapults & pistols and powerweapons for every model. Another superb kit
It looks like Shuriken Pistols are mostly right handed and Power Weapons left handed which is the opposite of how Storm GuardianS are built. Also, 24 head options if I counted correctly!
EDIT: Also, looks like bucketloads of unboxing videos and reviews are now live at youTube.
jullevi wrote: It looks like Shuriken Pistols are mostly right handed and Power Weapons left handed which is the opposite of how Storm GuardianS are built. Also, 24 head options if I counted correctly!
EDIT: Also, looks like bucketloads of unboxing videos and reviews are now live at youTube.
The opposite handedness with the guardians kit is great, means they can be mixed and matched quite effortlessly.
tauist wrote: WD474 Harlequin rules have apparently leaked, along with pictures of the cards. They are physical cards, but unfortunately they have those marks on the corners so I'm not sure how they can be disguised to look like all the other KT21 cards. GW Fail
Why would you need to? You'd choose your Tac Ops deck as normal and use these as reference so you're not having to keep going back and forth between books/WD.
When shuffling your Tac Ops you'll be able to tell which are the standard cards and which are the Factions Ops.
Also your opponent will be able to tell if you've pick a Faction Op or a Standard Op before you reveal them.
It's certainly an imperfect solution, but I do appreciate them doing it rather than not.
tauist wrote: WD474 Harlequin rules have apparently leaked, along with pictures of the cards. They are physical cards, but unfortunately they have those marks on the corners so I'm not sure how they can be disguised to look like all the other KT21 cards. GW Fail
Why would you need to? You'd choose your Tac Ops deck as normal and use these as reference so you're not having to keep going back and forth between books/WD.
That's a good point! This is the way.
Preordered Nachmund. The initial youtube reviews seem encouraging, CanURollACrit even stated both teams as being "too balanced"
Guerrilla Miniatures will be playing all the Nachmund missions next week on their channel. That should give some real world insight into how the new teams play.
New White Dwarf turned up today. The 18 Kill Team cards are 3 tactics cards for each of the 6 boxed game Kill Teams (so includes the 2 Chaos and Corsair teams released next week).
So with Kill Team now, as I still didn’t invest since the last version.
If I want to start Harlequins which I see were mentioned a page back, as I was looking at getting them.
I require a team of 8, two of which are special characters to buy? Right?
There’s no more just grab one guy her one guy there. It’s almost like getting squads for 40k, just slightly smaller amounts needed etc?
^According to the new Harli rules in WD474, some people got there's early, yes 8 figures is the go.
1 Leader + 7 dancers (of which 1 can be a death jester and 1 can be a shadowseer).
There's also restrictions on how the weapon loadouts go, like only 1 fusion pistol for the kill team and only 1 neuro disruptor for the kill team - so be careful how you assemble your team.
kirotheavenger wrote: When shuffling your Tac Ops you'll be able to tell which are the standard cards and which are the Factions Ops.
Also your opponent will be able to tell if you've pick a Faction Op or a Standard Op before you reveal them.
It's certainly an imperfect solution, but I do appreciate them doing it rather than not.
When you shuffle your tac ops deck, use the extra cards that come in each deck labeled 'faction tacop 1, 2, 3'. Mark the harlequin cards with a dice, 1, 2, 3 and just leave them on the side.
When you choose your tac ops, associate 1 to 1, etc, until all are selected. When it's time to reveal them, reveal the blank tac ops card and point to the appropriate harlequin one and use that from then on.
kirotheavenger wrote: When shuffling your Tac Ops you'll be able to tell which are the standard cards and which are the Factions Ops.
Assuming they're sleeved - as they should be, to prevent wear and tear - and that the sleeves have an opaque back, what's going to be so obvious about the difference here?
Danny76 wrote: So with Kill Team now, as I still didn’t invest since the last version.
If I want to start Harlequins which I see were mentioned a page back, as I was looking at getting them.
I require a team of 8, two of which are special characters to buy? Right?
There’s no more just grab one guy her one guy there. It’s almost like getting squads for 40k, just slightly smaller amounts needed etc?
Correct. The option to mix models freely within a faction is gone. The points based team selection system of KT18 (the previous edition) is replaced by "pointless" team selection lists in KT21.
There are two main points to be made with the new team selection system. Firstly, having static team selection lists will enforce a bit more balanced teams for competitive play, as one cannot spam special weapons and elite operatives anymore. Secondly, now that the team lists are more aligned with 40K units, it is easier to play 40K Crusade / Narrative Campaigns which mix Kill Team and regular 40K missions.
kirotheavenger wrote: When shuffling your Tac Ops you'll be able to tell which are the standard cards and which are the Factions Ops.
Assuming they're sleeved - as they should be, to prevent wear and tear - and that the sleeves have an opaque back, what's going to be so obvious about the difference here?
Thickness, almost certainly. The card stock GW put in the last few WD was closer to actual playing cards than I’ve seen them do before but still not quite there. Assuming they’re using the same stuff, it will be too thick and will therefore shuffle differently and be quite obvious when dealing.
Of course this isn’t poker and you and your opponent have separate decks so stacking the cards makes barely any sense but it’s still there. You could try double-sleeving the “real” cards and single-sleeving the punch-outs…
kirotheavenger wrote: When shuffling your Tac Ops you'll be able to tell which are the standard cards and which are the Factions Ops.
Also your opponent will be able to tell if you've pick a Faction Op or a Standard Op before you reveal them.
It's certainly an imperfect solution, but I do appreciate them doing it rather than not.
I'm still not quite sure what you mean.
Choose your cards as normal.
When you reveal one during the course of play, replace it with the hand dandy card instead of just staring at text that says "Faction TacOp 2" and trying to remember the parameters.
But my main question.
What issues of White Dwarf had the various Kill Teams in them?
Is there an easy way to get ahold of them? Like I want to look into a Harlequin team for instance..
Danny76 wrote: Really hoping for another box info drop soon..
But my main question.
What issues of White Dwarf had the various Kill Teams in them?
Is there an easy way to get ahold of them? Like I want to look into a Harlequin team for instance..
I wonder if a Chaos Cultist team will merit a big box release instead of a White Dwarf release, now that the list they were part of of was replaced by the Chaos Legionaries Kill Team.
The Goonhammer website pointed out back in September about the cultists in the KTCSM list:
and that the cultist entry should have been more based on the Cultist models they still sell (the Blackstone ones) and not the cultist models they stopped producing at the end of 7th edition (try buying cultist flamers and shotgun leaders, you can’t from GW)
I believe there's no cultist flamers or shotgun leaders in today preview. Maybe a new all cultist list in WD perhaps to go with the new models?
People are reckoning Traitor Guard to be announced in next KT box set.
I did! In the early to mid 2000's. Still, I'm glad that current fans get some new figs as well. A bit too late for a likely game of Dark Crusade RPG though...
Loving the new box! It's got the terrain I was going to buy anyway, but now I get the new teams & the book for free
Next White Dwarf apparently introduces some sort of Sentries to KT21, going on preorder next saturday. This seems like an interesting new direction, we are getting new rules which aren't faction specific. We will probably be seeing leaks about these sentries soon enough.
Seems like the sentry rules already partially leaked. It's a new addition for certain missions which replaces the matched play rock-paper-scissors game at the beginning of a mission.
One side is designated as the attacker and other as the defender. Attacker gets to play with their invader operatives normally (no shooting/charging though) but always gets the concealed order. Defender has more operatives on the board but can only move them 1D6 inches per activation.
The sentry phase ends when the Defender spots an invader (getting LOS to it or getting within BLUE of an invader) or whenever the invader wishes to end the sentry phase. After the sentry phase has ended, normal gameplay resumes, starting from deployment etc. Only twist to the regular rules for the 1st turning point are, the operatives who participated in the sentry phase can change their orders after activation during the 1st turning point.
Kinda neat, gives me Metal Gear Solid vibes. The ivaders are allowed to do mission actions etc, probably includes scoring VPs as well. What was interesting to note was that the next KT21 box with traitor guard & phobos bois will also feature sentry phase enabled missions, but the WD text said that the rules will be slightly different in the book that comes with the box, and that the WD sentry rules only apply to the included missions in the magazine.
Kind of tempted by the forthcoming boxed set. I want the scenery for Necromunda (to tie into my long gestating concept of a Vault being discovered, explored and exploited), and the Traitor Guard look really nice.
Agreed Mad Doc. I'll be parting out the Phobos Marines (I already have enough), but the set is the first since Octarius that I am keeping most of the contents (got Pathfinders from Chalnath & Corsairs from Nachmund).
I bought 2 of the standalone terrain boxes previously, and I'm gonna end up w 3 of those kill team boxes, and I already have a bunch of the Ryza ruins and fronteris stuff from other sources, so I think I'm good on Fronteris terrain for the rest of my life lol.
Never really played Kill Team, but with Chaos Cards more or less at the end of my road (well, end of the road and take a left!) I’m optimistic of a return to actually Gaming. And skirmish scale is much more my thing these days, as I cannot be bothered with mass battles right now.
Glad to see it. More surprised about the chaos knight stuff on its ownsome. And ash wastes terrain (which looks a bit like cut content, if it isn't an alternate build of the main elevated habs)
Anyway, eager to see the price of Moloch, but its got a lot of stuff I want, so GW will have to try harder to talk me out of buying this one (compared to a lot of other stuff this year that looked interesting, but went bad by its release date)
I was hoping we'd see HH 2.0 before Moloch. I will need to prioritize buying the HH box, unfortunately. But it's cool, I'm pretty sure I will be able to score a Moloch box next month. Maybe grab one STC hab bunker kit to go with it, so then I'll have as much of this Nachmund terrain as what comes in the big bundle box.
Yep. I had promised myself to rein in discretionary spending for a bit and haven't spent a dime on GW product since the last price increase but I'm going to have to break that promise for this box.
On a somewhat related topic, thematically, what type of armor would you typically see in a traitor/renegade guard army? A smattering of LR? Maybe some Malcadors?
As a solo kit? Probably not - I thought they had a pattern of releasing any "new" kits from a KT box alongside the next one, but then I'd've expected the Corsairs to get a release announcement here, with the CSM from Nachmund (with the additional sprue) getting announce to be released with the CSM 'dex.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't think we're getting a proper (or even an improper! ) Lost & The Damned Codex.
I'm still betting on the dedicated units like the Traitor Guardsmen being in the codex, with "Brood Brothers" style rules for getting some of the Guard vehicles from the Guard Codex.
The boxed set is really good. It's an excellent spread of terrain, and the Traitor Guard look great.
GW missed an opportunity to create an Intercessor accessory sprue that added HTH weapons for the Sergeants and Pyreblasters and other bits and bobs, instead choosing to add more tacti-cool options to a kit everyone has enough of, but beyond that the set looks great.
I just finished my Fronteris Terrain, so I don't need more, but I'm going to find a way to get some squads of Traitor Guard.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The boxed set is really good. It's an excellent spread of terrain, and the Traitor Guard look great.
GW missed an opportunity to create an Intercessor accessory sprue that added HTH weapons for the Sergeants and Pyreblasters and other bits and bobs, instead choosing to add more tacti-cool options to a kit everyone has enough of, but beyond that the set looks great.
I just finished my Fronteris Terrain, so I don't need more, but I'm going to find a way to get some squads of Traitor Guard.
Don't worry, I'm sure this won't be the only Kill Team upgrade that Space Marines get. I'm simply surprised it took this long for them to feature.
Sigh, looks like it will be the same $200 I paid for just the terrain, only with models and suchwot. I'm so mad I could just buy another box. that will show them!
Sigh, looks like it will be the same $200 I paid for just the terrain, only with models and suchwot. I'm so mad I could just buy another box. that will show them!
It's not exactly the same amount of terrain - it's missing 1 x Ryza building and 1 x set of fences. But it's pretty close.
Sigh, looks like it will be the same $200 I paid for just the terrain, only with models and suchwot. I'm so mad I could just buy another box. that will show them!
It's not exactly the same amount of terrain - it's missing 1 x Ryza building and 1 x set of fences. But it's pretty close.
Ah I feel a bit better then. I might just buy another box though, just to show them they can't rip me off like that!
H.B.M.C. wrote: The boxed set is really good. It's an excellent spread of terrain, and the Traitor Guard look great.
GW missed an opportunity to create an Intercessor accessory sprue that added HTH weapons for the Sergeants and Pyreblasters and other bits and bobs, instead choosing to add more tacti-cool options to a kit everyone has enough of, but beyond that the set looks great.
I just finished my Fronteris Terrain, so I don't need more, but I'm going to find a way to get some squads of Traitor Guard.
Apparently this gives them actual models for some of the upgrades in the vanguard spearhead army.
Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
basically the same price as the solo Fronteris box except you swap out a building and 4-wall fence and one board for marines, traitors, and book.
Worthwhile trade in my book, especially given how badly priced the Chaos Commissar and Ogryn were in the BSF expansion box. Incursors or whatever are already $60 for 10, let alone what the upgrade sprue will add on to that eventually, and the bunker & walls are $80 solo. With the KT box starting at $10 less than the terrain box, everything chaos is essentially a 'bonus'
Which is just another way of saying that GW's pricing structure is just _weird_.
Geifer wrote:This is one of the rare cases where it does matter. Moloch already exists, although it got eaten by Tyranids.
That sounds like the opposite of mattering to me. Another nameless dead world in a galaxy full of them. Woo.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
Honestly I think they're probably scared to give intercessors more choices at this point. The second they get special/heavy weapons, that's gonna be it for tacticals. And they know the fans know it.
They don't need special/heavy weapons. Intercessors can pretty much stay as they are. Pyreblasters (or whatever the BT Primaris Flamers) are called would be a nice addition (1 per 5) along with melee weapons for the Sergeant. Then the rest of the sprue is extra things (a Bolt Sniper Rifle, comms gear, a demo specialist, etc.) essentially the 'elite' stuff for KT, and that allows that sprue + Intercessor kit to = Veteran Intercessors.
And then everything would be updated in 9th Ed Marines V2.0, which we know is coming.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
Honestly I think they're probably scared to give intercessors more choices at this point. The second they get special/heavy weapons, that's gonna be it for tacticals. And they know the fans know it.
That's the solution to the bloated codex though. Give intercessors (& incursors & infiltrators) gear and merge the datasheets. Players can pick old style or new style armor and call it a day, no stress about which is better and what's going to be outdated when. No more 40+ bolters, no more super-extra-minor variant (+1 to strength or damage or AP) to various other guns. That has a place on Necromunda scale games, but not 40k scale games.
They're remaking mk6 marines and talking openly about the interchangeability between systems for the various vehicles (Deimos rhino and Sicaran). They missed the boat on going primaris-only, it'd be really dumb to do it now, rather than really shoot HH sales into the stratosphere.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know what it does, but the choice between expanding the Intercessor kit and giving it the missing Sergeant weapons vs some more tacti-cool crap for Infiltrators/Incursors, I know what I'd pick.
Honestly I think they're probably scared to give intercessors more choices at this point. The second they get special/heavy weapons, that's gonna be it for tacticals. And they know the fans know it.
That's the solution to the bloated codex though. Give intercessors (& incursors & infiltrators) gear and merge the datasheets. Players can pick old style or new style armor and call it a day, no stress about which is better and what's going to be outdated when. No more 40+ bolters, no more super-extra-minor variant (+1 to strength or damage or AP) to various other guns. That has a place on Necromunda scale games, but not 40k scale games.
They're remaking mk6 marines and talking openly about the interchangeability between systems for the various vehicles (Deimos rhino and Sicaran). They missed the boat on going primaris-only, it'd be really dumb to do it now, rather than really shoot HH sales into the stratosphere.
That's never going to happen now I think. Firstborn Marines have been established in the lore as a scant resource, while Primaris is more like how Firstborn were before the Heresy - There's practically an unlimited amount of them, even their force organization is more like how the Legions were than how Firstborn are in M41. I think GW will want to keep this distinction alive.
I want the Traitors, and I usually grab any GW terrain by default, but I feel like Warzone Nachmund was priced completely insane to make this only marginally less insane price look like a deal and I'm not having it.
Not seen it mentioned yet but this box is the last box on the roadmap we got a year ago right? I know it sort of faded out so implied more to come but it's not necessarily going to be another Killzone box with two teams I guess.
GaroRobe wrote: It’s strange that this is the first time we’ve seen the traitor guard medic (corpseman) shown off and it’s tucked away in an article about the ogryn
He didn’t even appear in the traitor guard lineup
They also mention a Traitor Commsman so fingers crossed we get a full variety like Veteran Guard.
Maybe the images they showed off were the generic troop version that they also used when taking pictures for the CSM dex rather than the KT specialists?
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