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And how it inevitably ends

This is preferable. Spawnbaddon was more useful in a single game than Failbaddon was throughout his entire career.

I may need better dice...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/08/the-corsair-shade-runner-is-a-kill-team-ninja-who-literally-blinks-across-the-battlefield/

A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.

I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af

Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/08/the-corsair-shade-runner-is-a-kill-team-ninja-who-literally-blinks-across-the-battlefield/

A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.

I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af

Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..

Only really space marines are 3 APL so I'd be pretty surprised if Corsairs were above 2 APL. With a lot of these specialists, you can also only have one of them, which means a lucky round of bolter fire can remove a problematic unit from the table pretty quick.

I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...

drbored wrote:

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/08/the-corsair-shade-runner-is-a-kill-team-ninja-who-literally-blinks-across-the-battlefield/

A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.

I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af

Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..

Only really space marines are 3 APL so I'd be pretty surprised if Corsairs were above 2 APL. With a lot of these specialists, you can also only have one of them, which means a lucky round of bolter fire can remove a problematic unit from the table pretty quick.

I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...

I think it's only one die, but with a reroll (weapon stat is supposedly 3/5, Lethal 5+, relentless, number of attacks unknown). A full complement of dice from the weapon would be too powerful, especially since the opponent cannot save nor parry.

About that lucky round of bolter fire, IME, the only way to keep operatives with less than 8 wounds alive is to not expose them to shooting in the first place. And with this operative being able to do pretty much everything during a conceal order, all they will need is some light cover and you can't shoot them at all. The op has fly as well so terrain does not slow down their movement, even easier to get behind cover..

drbored wrote:

I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...

The ability says "roll one attack dice".

 Platuan4th wrote:

drbored wrote:

I'm more confused as to whether it means you can roll 1 attack dice or if you can roll your full compliment of attack dice (however many the weapon gets)...

The ability says "roll one attack dice".

Ok, just making sure that I read that right.

And honestly, I don't think it's going to be that busted.
A whole army of these sorts of models? That'd be problematic, but only one? You dance around it, maybe feed it chaff, lure it out, or use other strats/weapons to merc it. It becomes a fun game of chess, while also trying to reach your own objectives and stop your opponent from getting theirs.

So is the Chaos Marine Kill Team actually 10 models in game (which seems a lot) or is it just there are ten on the sprue they're reusing, but the rules will have you taking smaller fire teams?

deano2099 wrote:
So is the Chaos Marine Kill Team actually 10 models in game (which seems a lot) or is it just there are ten on the sprue they're reusing, but the rules will have you taking smaller fire teams?

It's just reusing of the sprue with an added extra sprue to give the KT options and for regular 40K to spice it a bit up. The Killteam will likely be 5-6 CSM, everything else would be way too overpowered.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/09/create-cinematic-movie-moments-with-kill-team-nachmunds-interactive-killzone/

Terrain gets more rules interactions

Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/09/create-cinematic-movie-moments-with-kill-team-nachmunds-interactive-killzone/

Terrain gets more rules interactions

Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.

I guess they hope for stuff like someone dashes in, turns off the cover and you shred the enemy style events.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/09/create-cinematic-movie-moments-with-kill-team-nachmunds-interactive-killzone/

Terrain gets more rules interactions

Not sure what to think about capturing a power core granting 1 CP, seems a bit silly.. The smoke and fumes are sorta interesting, but I would have liked them to be totally random on/off events which the operatives have no control over.

I guess they hope for stuff like someone dashes in, turns off the cover and you shred the enemy style events.

I actually quite like the interaction with the power core. Like do you send an operative over to grab that CP, and if you do what’s the risk of them getting to it before the enemy. And if you do spot the enemy going to grab it, is it worth sending one of your over to either grab it before them or sabotage it and take a chance on blowing themselves up too. I think it will play very differently depending on if it’s close to a primary objective or not.

So now the 18 cards bundled with March issue of White Dwarf have been revealed. They are the 3 faction specific tac ops cards for the KT21 box set teams released so far (Vet Guard, Kommandos, Novitiates, Pathfinders, Corsairs, Chaos Legionnaires).

The shoulda made it 19 cards and included a corrected version of "Rob & Ransack" card which released with typos in the text content.

They do apparently seem to be actual physical cards though, and not just a set of pages you can cut out and glue onto cardboard yourself.

It'll be interesting to see if you need to cut these out of the card pages, or if they'll be die-cut in advance - I've seen both since White Dwarf started to include card content again.

Yeah, there’s cards and there’s card. It would be preferable if they were the same dimensions as the card set supplied separately, and also didn’t have little stubs of card sticking out where they were attached to the host magazine.

Yeah, I'm not gonna get those. The generic Mission 1-3 ones are good enough for me. Also, it would need to be 36 cards, because the mission cards come in black and orange back colours.

WD474 Harlequin rules have apparently leaked, along with pictures of the cards. They are physical cards, but unfortunately they have those marks on the corners so I'm not sure how they can be disguised to look like all the other KT21 cards. GW Fail

The Harlequin rules themselves are kinda cool. The troupe can score VPs by enacting a "performance", chosen at the start of the battle. You can change your play once per battle, kind of like how the Hunter Clade protocols work.

8 models per team, Death Jester and Shadowseer included. You can now only include one fusion pistol & neurodisruptor per team. Not what I'd call a hard nerf tho, will be interesting to see how this new team will perform. Some people online already declaring as OP cheese so YMMV

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/08/the-corsair-shade-runner-is-a-kill-team-ninja-who-literally-blinks-across-the-battlefield/

A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.

I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af

Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..

I don't think this mechanic is actually that powerful.
It's a Normal Move action, which means you can only even get in Engagement Range if the enemy Op is already engaged with someone else.
I don't see anything in the rule that allows them to bypass that.
That makes it a kinda niche situation tbh.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 tauist wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/08/the-corsair-shade-runner-is-a-kill-team-ninja-who-literally-blinks-across-the-battlefield/

A new mechanic, where an operative can move and strike with a melee weapon without the opponent being able to strike back.

I can see the shade runner being a real PITA against slow enemies, since she can both shoot and melee from conceal. Add in the free dash and added movement and your opponent is going to be frustrated af

Only way this can be anywhere near balanced is if the Corsairs are 2 APL..

I don't think this mechanic is actually that powerful.
It's a Normal Move action, which means you can only even get in Engagement Range if the enemy Op is already engaged with someone else.
I don't see anything in the rule that allows them to bypass that.
That makes it a kinda niche situation tbh.

They have Fly, on account of the warp pack. It says so in the article.

Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.

 tauist wrote:

8 models per team, Death Jester and Shadowseer included. You can now only include one fusion pistol & neurodisruptor per team. Not what I'd call a hard nerf tho, will be interesting to see how this new team will perform. Some people online already declaring as OP cheese so YMMV

I await the day Fly becomes measure diagonal distance as a slight nerf because it gets silly in some terrain set ups...

I agree, FLY feels a lot more like teleportation than it does jumping.
It's alright for 40k, but Killteam is small enough scale they can be a little more granular.

Problem is 6" move wouldn't be enough to clear up a building and back down again, which would make FLY slightly redundant.

Perhaps a simpler and just as successful method would be to allow them to ignore Light/Traversible terrain, but still be blocked by Heavy terrain as normal (but get to climb buildings from anywhere).

Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?

I guess it depends if you think a double handed chainaxe, a chaincannnon, and some bald heads and knives are worth $100+

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Okay, so asking advice and recognizing I'm a bit late to this party: playing CSM and 40k, but not Kill Team or Eldar (which I might get back into, just leave it as a KT force), any feelings on the value of the starter set, I guess as an entry into KT and models for one guaranteed faction?

Which starter would that be? The upcoming Nachmund box is an expansion, you need the Core Rules and tokens etc to play Nachmund.

If you are talking about the KT21 starter box which comes with Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos, that one is the cheapest way to get into KT21, assuming you resell the models once you've bought the starter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.

I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.

IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.

A bit early, but preorders are up in NZ for anyone wanting to get a better look at the models.

Edit: Well, they're sort of up : P

 tauist wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.

I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.

IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.

Wouldn't be the first time GW has published a rule that doesn't work as intended RAW...
Or perhaps it's intended that you're supposed to engage the enemy with another Harlequin, then dart in for a slash whilst they're distracted?

What Ploy are you referring to? A Harli one? I don't see such a thing in their list. I do see one that does kinda the reverse - it allows you to Dash or Charge whilst within Engagement Range, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

FLY rather conspicuously doesn't mention anything Engagement Range, so I really don't see how it would let you ignore that restriction.

Ok, yeah, I suspected it after Maugan Ra was released for 10% more than other special characters, but this new pre-order price proves my theory!

The new KT box just went up for Pre-Order in Oz. It's AUD$320, 10% more than Octarius.

This means GW didn't technically lie when they said they weren't raising the prices in Oz. They just didn't tell the whole truth. The existing models are staying the same, but all new releases are getting the same price hike as the rest of the world.

That new price point for this box set is a bitter pill. Shame as I was liking the corsairs, even had a colour scheme figured out and everything lol. Guess I'll wait for an individual release in the future sometime and see how I feel then.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Does Fly let you move within engagement range?
It never says so, it lets you move over other operatives but I never took that to mean allowing you to enter Engagement.
Not moving through other operatives and not entering engagement range are separate clauses of the move rule, so it seems clear to me that ignoring one doesn't mean ignoring the other.

I think FLY allows you to move within engagement range, just not allowed to end the move within. Otherwise this new gimmick wont work as intended.

IIRC there's also a ploy which allows a model to move within engagement, but cannot end the move within. It's basically the same thing but without the 1 dice melee attack.

Wouldn't be the first time GW has published a rule that doesn't work as intended RAW...
Or perhaps it's intended that you're supposed to engage the enemy with another Harlequin, then dart in for a slash whilst they're distracted?

What Ploy are you referring to? A Harli one? I don't see such a thing in their list. I do see one that does kinda the reverse - it allows you to Dash or Charge whilst within Engagement Range, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

FLY rather conspicuously doesn't mention anything Engagement Range, so I really don't see how it would let you ignore that restriction.

I was referring to the Tactical Ploy "Reposition" the Pathfinder team has. It allows a dash which can be performed through Engagement but cannot end within.