Aware this is an obvious question, but am I right in thinking that the Blooded, other than the Commissar and Ogryn are a proper proper multipart kit, and not solely limited to the advertised build?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Aware this is an obvious question, but am I right in thinking that the Blooded, other than the Commissar and Ogryn are a proper proper multipart kit, and not solely limited to the advertised build?
jullevi wrote: It's a bit annoying that Traitor Comissar and Ogryn are included in the Chaos Traitor Guardsmen set. It makes sense as a Kill Team product but greatly reduces the temptation to pick multiple kits for 40k.
On the bright side, if/when that kit comes out for 40k, it'll be cheaper.
Of course, it probably won't have the upgrade sprue either, so...
Have 40k rules been put out for it yet? As in a traitor guard squad with the functioning upgrades? I wonder if they will be included within the squad... Probably not.
I also wonder if the upgrades will come to the phobos datasheet
Have 40k rules been put out for it yet? As in a traitor guard squad with the functioning upgrades? I wonder if they will be included within the squad... Probably not.
I also wonder if the upgrades will come to the phobos datasheet
The 40K rules for the Traitor Guard Squad will likely come out next week to further promote their then ongoing preoder period. My guess is still on Codex CSM, since the changes to IG would need to be way too substancial to justify one kit. Also don't expect anything beyond basic loadout. We can be lucky if they even consider the Ogryn for the 40K counterpart.
Likely there will be no updates to the 40K Phobos Datasheet. So far none of the Killteam extras where incoporated into 40K. But maybe Codex SM 9.2 will prove me wrong.
Have 40k rules been put out for it yet? As in a traitor guard squad with the functioning upgrades? I wonder if they will be included within the squad... Probably not.
I also wonder if the upgrades will come to the phobos datasheet
The 40K rules for the Traitor Guard Squad will likely come out next week to further promote their then ongoing preoder period. My guess is still on Codex CSM, since the changes to IG would need to be way too substancial to justify one kit. Also don't expect anything beyond basic loadout. We can be lucky if they even consider the Ogryn for the 40K counterpart.
Likely there will be no updates to the 40K Phobos Datasheet. So far none of the Killteam extras where incoporated into 40K. But maybe Codex SM 9.2 will prove me wrong.
Not quite correct, as they were included in some capacity for Kommandos (wargear, not actual stat line upgrades), the same for chaos legionaries who can gain a psyker. I'm not really looking for specialist operatives I suppose, more if the phobos would be able to take a special sniper bolter etc.
We'll see anyway, I also wonder if the Imperial navy breachers will be tied to one faction, or become imperial agents.
The Aeldari corsairs can also use the KT weapon options in the veteran version of the unit in the Codex.
Some of the DKoK parts are usable for various AM units, but not in any formal way (the medic obviously can be used as a medic in a command squad, and the spotter/comms parts can make a great Master of Ordnance. Sadly demo charges are no longer an option for veterans or special weapons squads).
Yes it would.. But I already have a partially built one I bought from ebay and AFAIK the kit was monopose so.. I suppose one could convert the pose to a different one?
Would be fun to see the KT21 stats for an Ambull tho! How many wounds would it even have - 20, 30, more?
Yeah, its a shame its monopose. No idea about the current edition but it was quite mean in the last one.
I think he's still using Internet Explorer, he'll catch up eventually.
Oguhmek wrote: Three boxes a year, eh? Six teams?
Took me almost a year to paint up the Octarius box and the two teams that came with it.
So if I spend 100% of my hobby time on KT, I might get to play one set of scenarios per season, one year after release (basically at the same time they are replaced by the new season).
This pace of releases is crazy, and this is just one of the (minor) game systems.
You mean four boxes (8 teams). One per quarter, every 3 months = 4 per year. We already have their names too: Gallowdark, Shadowvaults, Soulshackle, Shadowfall - thats four.
Congrats, you "predicted" things that had already been announced?
Like I said, hes running internet explorer. Had no idea he was posting a bunch of stuff we were already fully aware of as though he was some sort of oracle (or we are a bunch of idiots) and then threw a fit when others questioned why he was telling us what we already knew. Not the first time he's done it.
Was considering grabbing some extra Gellarpox boxes to convert the big'uns into DG chaos spawn, personally (I loathe the actual spawn minis with a passion). Then again, was also thinking of using torments for the same purpose lol.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Have 40k rules been put out for it yet? As in a traitor guard squad with the functioning upgrades?
Sadly no. Everyone thought they would end up in the recently released Chaos Codex, but sadly no.
Three Chaos-themed Codices in a row and they've managed to leave Traitor Guard out of all of them.
The lack of traitor guard rules in the CSM codex has me wondering if the rules for playing traitor guard will be an option for the new Astra Militarum codex. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Just need to do something similar to brood brothers with GSC. Just release an upgrade sprue (ideally one that is more complex than what GSC got) and bam. Chaos tanks, chaos sentries, chaos heavy weapon teams. Basically just AM, but Chaosy. I guess they'd get cultist as well. Might need a bit of work to really stand out from loyal guard, but I think it could work out
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Aware this is an obvious question, but am I right in thinking that the Blooded, other than the Commissar and Ogryn are a proper proper multipart kit, and not solely limited to the advertised build?
Just note that some bits only work with some bodies. I honestly found the kit rather annoying since all the torso fronts I actually liked were for only one or two leg/back sets. I had expected something like the Scions kit, where any chest piece fits any back, but it is not so at all. A few of them also have what I think are feather cloaks, which while you *can* put any arms with them, the arms that have the rest of the cloak look the best. There are still some ways you can swap around parts, and its far better than say the new Accursed Cultists kit in terms of posability, but overall I was a bit underwhelmed. Maybe the better term was annoyed.
Its not the worst in the world, just note this as if you want say your plasmagunner with a specific chestplate you will need to plan the entire kit construction around that, etc.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Hey GW, there are more weeks (read: paydays) in the year. No need to drop a new box, the contents of another box and two more teams and a book in the same week. Instead one big load and they’ll roll over and start snoring for the next three months.
You don't have to buy it all day of release. The teams will still be there for months.
You're right. I can wait a couple of weeks then buy it off eBay with an additional 25% storage fee.
So where do I find the core rules for kill team and necrons anyway? Is it an official freebie thing or do I have to buy a pricey supplement that will be rendered obsolete like 40k's rule sets?
Is kill team faster to play and less convoluted than 9th ed?
Chairman Aeon wrote: Hey GW, there are more weeks (read: paydays) in the year. No need to drop a new box, the contents of another box and two more teams and a book in the same week. Instead one big load and they’ll roll over and start snoring for the next three months.
You don't have to buy it all day of release. The teams will still be there for months.
You're right. I can wait a couple of weeks then buy it off eBay with an additional 25% storage fee.
Yes, the book will entirely sell out in two weeks, as will the team boxes.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Hey GW, there are more weeks (read: paydays) in the year. No need to drop a new box, the contents of another box and two more teams and a book in the same week. Instead one big load and they’ll roll over and start snoring for the next three months.
You don't have to buy it all day of release. The teams will still be there for months.
You're right. I can wait a couple of weeks then buy it off eBay with an additional 25% storage fee.
Yes, the book will entirely sell out in two weeks, as will the team boxes.
Are you basing that on the fact that all previously released books and Kill Teams are still available
Chairman Aeon wrote: Hey GW, there are more weeks (read: paydays) in the year. No need to drop a new box, the contents of another box and two more teams and a book in the same week. Instead one big load and they’ll roll over and start snoring for the next three months.
You don't have to buy it all day of release. The teams will still be there for months.
You're right. I can wait a couple of weeks then buy it off eBay with an additional 25% storage fee.
Yes, the book will entirely sell out in two weeks, as will the team boxes.
Those could be around for years or gone in 60 seconds, but as that’s what I’ll get next weekend it means the big box which isn’t in my budget right now will probably be gone when I can afford it. Wish I could just drop $500 on my hobby every eeek, but unfortunately that’s not the case.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Those could be around for years or gone in 60 seconds, but as that’s what I’ll get next weekend it means the big box which isn’t in my budget right now will probably be gone when I can afford it. Wish I could just drop $500 on my hobby every eeek, but unfortunately that’s not the case.
Yes, that's more of a problem, then. The big box has no real guarantee of lasting even a day.
So that's around 160€ + shipping from the usual discounters for both IttD & Annual 2022. It's about a tenner more than I anticipated, but I suppose it'll do.
I'm skipping the GW direct order this time around. That tin box does nothing for me. It looks like someone bought it off alibaba and lazily added a kill Team logo on the lid. GW missed a trick with Season 2 launch box, they should have offered direct orderers a metal RED gauge, since we only got a limited edition metal gauge for BLACK, WHITE & BLUE distances with Season 1 launch box. Would have been all over that one!
How much is this in Ameribucks? I tried the always fun exercise of trying to find something for the exact price in gbp and then finding it again on the US site to translate the US price penalty but I have failed.
privateer4hire wrote: How much is this in Ameribucks? I tried the always fun exercise of trying to find something for the exact price in gbp and then finding it again on the US site to translate the US price penalty but I have failed.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So where do I find the core rules for kill team and necrons anyway? Is it an official freebie thing or do I have to buy a pricey supplement that will be rendered obsolete like 40k's rule sets?
Is kill team faster to play and less convoluted than 9th ed?
The “core” rules are free here but don’t describe terrain or the team selection and campaign rules. The actual rule book is available separately or in the starter box, or in the new box you can preorder from Saturday.
As for Necron kill teams…you’re stuck with the Compendium which is steadily being replaced by the full teams in various supplements, because the compendium teams are kinda bland and flavourless. I would wait if I were you.
I'm going to wait to see the price of the Moroch scenery set price and decide whether to buy 2 boxes of into the dark as I think I'll want more than 1 set of the original terrain.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm going to wait to see the price of the Moroch scenery set price and decide whether to buy 2 boxes of into the dark as I think I'll want more than 1 set of the original terrain.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So where do I find the core rules for kill team and necrons anyway? Is it an official freebie thing or do I have to buy a pricey supplement that will be rendered obsolete like 40k's rule sets?
Is kill team faster to play and less convoluted than 9th ed?
The “core” rules are free here but don’t describe terrain or the team selection and campaign rules. The actual rule book is available separately or in the starter box, or in the new box you can preorder from Saturday.
As for Necron kill teams…you’re stuck with the Compendium which is steadily being replaced by the full teams in various supplements, because the compendium teams are kinda bland and flavourless. I would wait if I were you.
Ah, that might be why I have trouble finding them. Ok then, I'll just wait.
A lot missing in those "Free" rules. You do get a "Free" Intercessor Kill Team list though, so at least you can do something with all those extra Primarus that keep popping up and going into your bits box.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm going to wait to see the price of the Moroch scenery set price and decide whether to buy 2 boxes of into the dark as I think I'll want more than 1 set of the original terrain.
Killzone Moroch is £67.50
An insane "discount" versus Battlezone Nachmund or whatever it was.
This is an excellent deal. Battlezone: Fronteris - Nachmund at £135 looks ridiculously bad in comparison and I feel like a fool purchasing one when it was released.
This is an excellent deal. Battlezone: Fronteris - Nachmund at £135 looks ridiculously bad in comparison and I feel like a fool purchasing one when it was released.
I slightly less since I got KT Moroch instead, more or less trading one bunker for 2 teams. But two Killzones are a much better deal still.
This is an excellent deal. Battlezone: Fronteris - Nachmund at £135 looks ridiculously bad in comparison and I feel like a fool purchasing one when it was released.
Wow, yeah, twice the price just gets twice the fencing, and an extra bunker!
privateer4hire wrote: How much is this in Ameribucks? I tried the always fun exercise of trying to find something for the exact price in gbp and then finding it again on the US site to translate the US price penalty but I have failed.
$220.
Thanks. So just shy of a 5% increase from the last time
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So where do I find the core rules for kill team and necrons anyway? Is it an official freebie thing or do I have to buy a pricey supplement that will be rendered obsolete like 40k's rule sets?
Is kill team faster to play and less convoluted than 9th ed?
The “core” rules are free here but don’t describe terrain or the team selection and campaign rules.
WD478 includes expanded Terrain rules and how you can make your own, it also includes some Terrain rules from the Core Book.
Same question, what does that usually come out to in USD?
$112 (Spartan Assault Tank)
Oh, ouch.
I've wanted a 3D space hulk board for a long time but lessee $220 for the box, $112 for a second batch of terrain, probably another $112 for a third, then the Gellerpox dudes and the Rogue Trader band...
This is an excellent deal. Battlezone: Fronteris - Nachmund at £135 looks ridiculously bad in comparison and I feel like a fool purchasing one when it was released.
This is an excellent deal. Battlezone: Fronteris - Nachmund at £135 looks ridiculously bad in comparison and I feel like a fool purchasing one when it was released.
Same, feel like a fool for purchasing 2.
I got one and the kill team set. Little were we to know...
Same question, what does that usually come out to in USD?
$112 (Spartan Assault Tank)
Hmm... so to get the equivalent of what I bought it would have cost me AUD$44 more, and netted me two extra dishes, two extra towers and one extra landing pad.
I think I'm ok with that, as I don't really want/need a 4th pad or extra towers/dishes. But I can see how that would be annoying to others in hindsight.
It also makes me question buying any further big terrain kits if they're just going to do that.
Same question, what does that usually come out to in USD?
$112 (Spartan Assault Tank)
Hmm... so to get the equivalent of what I bought it would have cost me AUD$44 more, and netted me two extra dishes, two extra towers and one extra landing pad.
I think I'm ok with that, as I don't really want/need a 4th pad or extra towers/dishes. But I can see how that would be annoying to others in hindsight.
It also makes me question buying any further big terrain kits if they're just going to do that.
Well, at least we know that Season 2 killzone boxes will not be featuring any outdoors terrain. I think the Nachmund set thing was a fluke, where one hand didn't know what the other one was doing.
Same question, what does that usually come out to in USD?
$112 (Spartan Assault Tank)
Hmm... so to get the equivalent of what I bought it would have cost me AUD$44 more, and netted me two extra dishes, two extra towers and one extra landing pad.
I think I'm ok with that, as I don't really want/need a 4th pad or extra towers/dishes. But I can see how that would be annoying to others in hindsight.
It also makes me question buying any further big terrain kits if they're just going to do that.
Well, at least we know that Season 2 killzone boxes will not be featuring any outdoors terrain. I think the Nachmund set thing was a fluke, where one hand didn't know what the other one was doing.
Nah. The fact that the Nachmund Warzone box came out first, followed by Nachmund not long after, followed by the Nachmund terrain expansion suggests GW knew what they were doing and figured out how to maximize their profit potential with the sprues.
The first box had the least value but nobody knew that at the time and people snatched those boxes up as fast as possible.
Then they launched the kill team box at a slightly better price which everyone was going to buy for the kill teams inside anyway, higher volume even if lots of those sets end up on the secondary market.
Now they are launched the budget priced mini-terrain box with the best value, after everyone in effect overpaid for that stuff in the previous 2 boxes.
Sorry if I’m late to this particular bit of the party. But I am now wondering if the Breachers and Kroot are mono-build, or “proper kits” with upgrade sprues for spangles?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Sorry if I’m late to this particular bit of the party. But I am now wondering if the Breachers and Kroot are mono-build, or “proper kits” with upgrade sprues for spangles?
Given there haven't been a single mono-build kit in KillTeam thus far, I presume they're both proper kits - especially since I believe we already saw at least once alternate build for one of the Kroot.
Same question, what does that usually come out to in USD?
$112 (Spartan Assault Tank)
Hmm... so to get the equivalent of what I bought it would have cost me AUD$44 more, and netted me two extra dishes, two extra towers and one extra landing pad.
I think I'm ok with that, as I don't really want/need a 4th pad or extra towers/dishes. But I can see how that would be annoying to others in hindsight.
It also makes me question buying any further big terrain kits if they're just going to do that.
Well, at least we know that Season 2 killzone boxes will not be featuring any outdoors terrain. I think the Nachmund set thing was a fluke, where one hand didn't know what the other one was doing.
Nah. The fact that the Nachmund Warzone box came out first, followed by Nachmund not long after, followed by the Nachmund terrain expansion suggests GW knew what they were doing and figured out how to maximize their profit potential with the sprues.
The first box had the least value but nobody knew that at the time and people snatched those boxes up as fast as possible.
Then they launched the kill team box at a slightly better price which everyone was going to buy for the kill teams inside anyway, higher volume even if lots of those sets end up on the secondary market.
Now they are launched the budget priced mini-terrain box with the best value, after everyone in effect overpaid for that stuff in the previous 2 boxes.
You're making it sound as if Killzone: Moroch is a better deal than the full moroch box. It isn't.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Sorry if I’m late to this particular bit of the party. But I am now wondering if the Breachers and Kroot are mono-build, or “proper kits” with upgrade sprues for spangles?
Given there haven't been a single mono-build kit in KillTeam thus far, I presume they're both proper kits - especially since I believe we already saw at least once alternate build for one of the Kroot.
I doubt the Gellarpox will be a 20-man team so there's still going to be a fair bit of variety in what team you take. Don't know what direction they will go with the Starstriders, but I can see them making it a 5-6 man team so there's at least some variety in team makeup.
deano2099 wrote: Gellarpox coming in at £40, so on the expensive end but same price as the Chaos Legionaries and Phobos team.
Gellerpox isn’t expensive surely?
The teams you listed are like 10 man kits, don’t these have a lot more for just a few quid more?
It's the most expensive of the teams so far. There was some discussion on here a few weeks ago around if it'd be significantly more expensive because of the unit count.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Aware this is an obvious question, but am I right in thinking that the Blooded, other than the Commissar and Ogryn are a proper proper multipart kit, and not solely limited to the advertised build?
Just note that some bits only work with some bodies. I honestly found the kit rather annoying since all the torso fronts I actually liked were for only one or two leg/back sets. I had expected something like the Scions kit, where any chest piece fits any back, but it is not so at all. A few of them also have what I think are feather cloaks, which while you *can* put any arms with them, the arms that have the rest of the cloak look the best. There are still some ways you can swap around parts, and its far better than say the new Accursed Cultists kit in terms of posability, but overall I was a bit underwhelmed. Maybe the better term was annoyed.
Its not the worst in the world, just note this as if you want say your plasmagunner with a specific chestplate you will need to plan the entire kit construction around that, etc.
Haighus wrote: They've specifically added a Guard action to provide out-of-sequence shooting. I'm pretty sure that is designed to aid shooting-heavy teams.
However, melee teams should have an advantage in close quarters environments.
That's a good point. Guard will help.
We will see a big shift towards 6" range weapons in the loadouts at least.
Melee teams here will operate like melee teams in Necromunda with lots of terrain and the ability to turn the lights out. Ie with total impunity. Shooting teams will not have a chance when you can get into charge range without them drawing LoS.
Toofast wrote: Melee teams here will operate like melee teams in Necromunda with lots of terrain and the ability to turn the lights out. Ie with total impunity. Shooting teams will not have a chance when you can get into charge range without them drawing LoS.
They have added an action (guard) which allows an operative to perform a shooting attack on an enemy operative that moves into their LoS. It still limits the amount of shooting, favouring melee, but it makes it less lopsided by allowing shooting operatives to set traps for melee operatives to advance through.
Flinty wrote: Thats an odd way to spell Overwatch...
That is a different mechanic in Killteam, which is why I've avoided using it. Overwatch is extra shooting actions your operatives can make if your opponent has more operatives than you, until they have finished activating everyone.
I'll probably be picking it up here in the US, though I rarely play kill team. I want literally everything in the box (I guess except the extra core rulebook), more so after getting Space Station Zero recently. I think it will be a good set to built a couple crews and have some nice ship terrain.
That said, it is a lot of money and had I not wanted both teams and the terrain it would be a pretty easy pass.
These kill teams have plenty that you need to keep track of, and today’s update to Kill Team Command Roster update will make it a cinch. It’s now fully updated with the latest Kill Team releases, a new streamlined interface, automated local saving, and support for your Spec Ops campaigns.
There are new PDF export features for your roster, data cards, and operative dataslates, so you can quickly create a physical copy of your rules – ideal for tucking into your rulebooks and lending a copy of your roster to your opponent.
Both teams include everyone in the box without options. Well...Gellerpox can basically pay to add 3 Vermin to their team, with it being 9EP to mix and match all three types, or 7EP to get a set of one type.
Confirmed via the NZ website then - despite the original claim of a double-sided board, its a double-sided mat.
I may hold off until the kill zone comes out so I can get the terrain + board - not overly worried about the two kill teams, it was more the terrain (including board) I'm after ...
My understanding is that when GW say board, you get stiff cardboard (like Kill team fold-out boards and space hulk tiles). But when they say mat, it's paper like the minimal starter sets.
So paper rather than the much more expensive and durable neoprene (I think they have only ever done that once - a few years back with a moonbase IIRC - it was a square map but terrain markings set at a diagonal so not geomorphic or even remotely easy to tile into a larger play area)
So paper rather than the much more expensive and durable neoprene (I think they have only ever done that once - a few years back with a moonbase IIRC - it was a square map but terrain markings set at a diagonal so not geomorphic or even remotely easy to tile into a larger play area)
GW did two neoprene mats a while ago. Warhammer 40k Battle Mat - City ruin and Age of Sigmar Battle Mat - Khorne Dominion. They were sold on their own without scenery. Moonbase Klaisus and Blasted Hallowheart were released later and were the first real attempts at making a full cardboard gaming surface which later evolved into Kill Team and Warcry sized boards. Unfortunately Moonbase and Hallowheart didn't match either the previous or future recommended table sizes.
Kill Team: Into the Dark gaming mat sounds like the same material that we have seen in Necromunda starter sets, including Ash Wastes.
GW did two neoprene mats a while ago. Warhammer 40k Battle Mat - City ruin and Age of Sigmar Battle Mat - Khorne Dominion. They were sold on their own without scenery. Moonbase Klaisus and Blasted Hallowheart were released later and were the first real attempts at making a full cardboard gaming surface which later evolved into Kill Team and Warcry sized boards. Unfortunately Moonbase and Hallowheart didn't match either the previous or future recommended table sizes.
Thanks for that!
I got 2 of both those gameboard sets, did a really good job of covering my table. (Which wasn't the standard 6 x 4 anyway, so those "off sized" boards did a better job of filling it out)
I didn't like the non-geomorphucs moonbase, but the reverse side was a good setup for wasteland and Red Planet terrain. Combined with the Battlefield in a Box Badlands and desert rocks and pillars (looking very Nevada from memory), the included ruins did make a good job of an alien wasteland outpost.
Both sides of the AOS board we're good IIRC too.
(In the same way, I'm not bothered about Kill Team board sizes, didn't get caught up in the discussions/arguments when that new size was introduced)
I took all the measurements of the new Gallowdark Space Hulk elements, and also compared them to other 40k scenery kits and Zone Mortalis elements, some more pictures in my review.
I may hold off until the kill zone comes out so I can get the terrain + board - not overly worried about the two kill teams, it was more the terrain (including board) I'm after ...
Quoting myself, but ...
Easy decision - Wayland Games were sold-out on their pre-allocation within 2 minutes !
EDIT: OK, that looks like it was a temporary problem on their site, as its back available for preorder by 10:05
I took all the measurements of the new Gallowdark Space Hulk elements, and also compared them to other 40k scenery kits and Zone Mortalis elements, some more pictures in my review.
Spoiler:
Part 2 with the warbands is up tomorrow.
I am glad to learn the boards are still thick card, at least. Great review!
So it seems like the terrain has a really tight fit so its not easy to get it apart again with parts even breaking off. (At least after its painted)
Really don't know what to think about that since modularity was a big point for this terrain
I suspect it will just require some additional sanding of parts, like how the push-fit models do to go together easily. But it's a real concern. I am also curious how well the pieces hold together without glue.
I took all the measurements of the new Gallowdark Space Hulk elements, and also compared them to other 40k scenery kits and Zone Mortalis elements, some more pictures in my review.
Spoiler:
Part 2 with the warbands is up tomorrow.
I am glad to learn the boards are still thick card, at least. Great review!
The board has a slightly different size than previous boards to match the measurements of the terrain, it's in my review.
And yes, the elements are a tight fight once you add a coat of paint but I didn't have any breakages (yet).
I watched the sprues and brues video and he was rearranging the bare plastic terrain with no difficulty. It looks like you would need to mask up all the connections when priming, but if you do that, it will work well.
I'm tempted by the newer starter, I've always wanted a few Kroot, the naval guys are not exactly how I'd have designed them, but still pretty cool. A Hulk board sounds handy for a lot of things.
I could also get the German version, that'd allow my nephews to try it and use the amall amount of stuff they have and give me up to date rules - I guess the Krieg vs Kommandos box I bought at a severe discount a couple of months ago is outdated?
The kroot are fantastic, though I would have prefered a bit more exotic weaponry. The Navy armsmen however, look for the most part like they are wearing bathrobes. The two with the heavy armour sets look much better and practical.
Chikout wrote: I watched the sprues and brues video and he was rearranging the bare plastic terrain with no difficulty. It looks like you would need to mask up all the connections when priming, but if you do that, it will work well.
Even the unprimed caps were jamming in GMG's video. Maybe it was manufacturing variability that let Sprues and Brews come apart easier, though I did notice the caps were tight even in his video so maybe once it's painted and you're trying to get it off without also taking off chunks of paint then it'll be fiddlier.
Didn't love the way GMG's video showed the assembled set being rigid enough that it didn't sit flat on his table.
Sanding the bits down a touch is the obvious solution, but it does make it a bit less than convenient. They definitely could have come up with something better IMO.
Preordered IttD and the Annual 2022 from a discounter, got both + shipping for about 170€.
Checking the sprues @ GW, the Navy Breachers seem to come with shotguns only + meltagun, plasmagun and scatter laser thingamajig for the gunner. Would have liked a few of em with boltguns but shotguns will have to do for now. Considering buying them a "decorative" Valkyrie at some point in time, because that'd be a neat "Spec Ops Base of Operations" for them for open air based missions. On second thought, a Devilfish would make a bitchin' Base for the Kroot mercs as well..!
tauist wrote: Preordered IttD and the Annual 2022 from a discounter, got both + shipping for about 170€.
Checking the sprues @ GW, the Navy Breachers seem to come with shotguns only + meltagun, plasmagun and scatter laser thingamajig for the gunner. Would have liked a few of em with boltguns but shotguns will have to do for now. Considering buying them a "decorative" Valkyrie at some point in time, because that'd be a neat "Spec Ops Base of Operations" for them for open air based missions. On second thought, a Devilfish would make a bitchin' Base for the Kroot mercs as well..!
I got ItD. £100 posted.
I did contemplate Gellerpox or the Traitor Guard, but ended up just the box..
Chikout wrote: I watched the sprues and brues video and he was rearranging the bare plastic terrain with no difficulty. It looks like you would need to mask up all the connections when priming, but if you do that, it will work well.
Even the unprimed caps were jamming in GMG's video. Maybe it was manufacturing variability that let Sprues and Brews come apart easier, though I did notice the caps were tight even in his video so maybe once it's painted and you're trying to get it off without also taking off chunks of paint then it'll be fiddlier.
Didn't love the way GMG's video showed the assembled set being rigid enough that it didn't sit flat on his table.
Sanding the bits down a touch is the obvious solution, but it does make it a bit less than convenient. They definitely could have come up with something better IMO.
Goonhammer also said the connection are tight and they broke off a tab so it seems like that will be the norm
But terrain isn't made in house so maybe the external factory screwed up some tolerances and they didn't have enough time to remake the molds?
Would be really surprised if that is what they wanted the result to be
Chikout wrote: I watched the sprues and brues video and he was rearranging the bare plastic terrain with no difficulty. It looks like you would need to mask up all the connections when priming, but if you do that, it will work well.
Even the unprimed caps were jamming in GMG's video. Maybe it was manufacturing variability that let Sprues and Brews come apart easier, though I did notice the caps were tight even in his video so maybe once it's painted and you're trying to get it off without also taking off chunks of paint then it'll be fiddlier.
Didn't love the way GMG's video showed the assembled set being rigid enough that it didn't sit flat on his table.
Sanding the bits down a touch is the obvious solution, but it does make it a bit less than convenient. They definitely could have come up with something better IMO.
Goonhammer also said the connection are tight and they broke off a tab so it seems like that will be the norm
But terrain isn't made in house so maybe the external factory screwed up some tolerances and they didn't have enough time to remake the molds?
Would be really surprised if that is what they wanted the result to be
Yeah maybe, I'm sure there's some change in dimensions from the mould to the final cast part as things set and cool down, so it's probably easy to make a mistake in tolerancing.
I guess a solution for gamers would be just to sand everything down a lot so things fit loosely then magnetise the crap out of it so that it's magnets instead of friction holding it together. GW probably should have done something like that to begin with, just include a bag of magnets with the kit. Otherwise design an interlocking system that doesn't rely on tight fits to hold it together.
Yeah... pass.
$210 for 2 squads (one of which I don't really care about) and some walls just isn't on my want list.
pass on the starstriders, too. I'd forgotten that they somehow have only 3 basic troopers. They'd work well with a more refined and open version of Necromunda or some kind of Inquisitorial boardgame, or Quest, but there isn't enough here.
Voss wrote: with a more refined and open version of Necromunda or some kind of Inquisitorial boardgame, or Quest, but there isn't enough here.
Actually I think they fare quite well in KT 2.0, team number are limited and you can't spam the "special weapon dude" like in 1.0 anymore. It's a shame they were made during the time GW didn't really invest much money into exclusive team, so they ended up flatten into 2d pose and shoved into a tiny sprue, unlike the team you see nowaday that is on 3 or 2.5 sprues. The Warrant of Trade ability they had seem pretty good.
pass on the starstriders, too. I'd forgotten that they somehow have only 3 basic troopers. They'd work well with a more refined and open version of Necromunda or some kind of Inquisitorial boardgame, or Quest, but there isn't enough here.
I have them in red plastic, but want the characters for conversions, so...
Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
Thanks Stahly, your reviews are always a great resource, keep it up.
I really appreciate that you do written reviews in a world where most people seem to do video reviews.
Personally, I think I'll skip this release. I like the Imperial Navy models, don't really care about the Kroot, and while I like the terrain I don't love how it goes together.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
Always enjoy these reviews! I really appreciate the detailed breakdown of the model options in particular.
I am curious about the Scatterguns for th Kroot. I only see two on the sprue, but the list says any Kroot Warrior can have them. I am surprised given how closely GW has been adhering to the sprue contents.
stahly on Breachers wrote:Posing options are limited, legs and torso are linked and arms cannot be freely swapped either...
stahly on Kroot wrote:... posing options are limited, as upper and lower bodies are connected, and with a few exceptions, arms fit only a specific body...
Good thing mono-pose is just a myth, hey?
I am at least glad that this Kroot kit appears to be what will replace the current one. I didn't think it would be.
I'm hoping that sometime in the future, we get rules for the new Possessed. Given how powerful they are, maybe the teams could be like the Custodes, with two teams of two models. Obviously, the emphasis would be on melee combat, but I think that there could be an option to give them some very basic pistol weapon, like what the daemons get.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
Always enjoy these reviews! I really appreciate the detailed breakdown of the model options in particular.
I am curious about the Scatterguns for th Kroot. I only see two on the sprue, but the list says any Kroot Warrior can have them. I am surprised given how closely GW has been adhering to the sprue contents.
You're right, I missed that. Only two scatterguns on the sprues, and a third strapped to the back of the Stalker. I updated the review accordingly.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So one guy can either have a plasma, melta or the man-portable multi-laser? Those arms don't fit with any other models?
I think if you remove some of the arms pegs you should abe able to find another body where the special weapons will fit, might require a little bit of green stuff filling though.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
After reading your review, did you not notice the difficulty of assembling the kits as GMG talked about in his video review?
I did, but after dry-fitting it was pretty obvious to me that adding a few coats of paint would make the tight fit even more difficult, so I masked all the contact points before painting and priming and don't have much of a problem now.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
Always enjoy these reviews! I really appreciate the detailed breakdown of the model options in particular.
I am curious about the Scatterguns for th Kroot. I only see two on the sprue, but the list says any Kroot Warrior can have them. I am surprised given how closely GW has been adhering to the sprue contents.
You're right, I missed that. Only two scatterguns on the sprues, and a third strapped to the back of the Stalker. I updated the review accordingly.
Oh, my apologies! I didn't mean it as a criticism of your review. I was just surprised when reading the rules for building a Kill Team.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So one guy can either have a plasma, melta or the man-portable multi-laser? Those arms don't fit with any other models?
I think if you remove some of the arms pegs you should abe able to find another body where the special weapons will fit, might require a little bit of green stuff filling though.
stahly wrote: Today I have part two of my Into the Dark review, with high-res sprue pics of both Kill Team and a breakdown of all the weapon and assembly options of both kits. Spoiler: Apart from weapon options you can really just change/pose the heads.
After reading your review, did you not notice the difficulty of assembling the kits as GMG talked about in his video review?
I did, but after dry-fitting it was pretty obvious to me that adding a few coats of paint would make the tight fit even more difficult, so I masked all the contact points before painting and priming and don't have much of a problem now.
Thanks! Still, I‘ll wait until the terrain is sold separately and some more reviews come in. Let‘s me understand better the „not much of a problem“ bit.
Ya I’m waiting to see more of this terrain… I’m not sold on it yet… it seems limited in what I can build and use it for.. I was hoping to integrate it more into zone mortalis terrain or use it in 40K.. but it lacks expandability which is wierd if they are planning to come out with multiple additions and expansions… so I’m just waiting to see where it goes.
Yeah, will be interesting to see where it will go from here. The lore in IttD campaign book suggestes that there are even habitable biospheres inside the Gallowdark. So will it all be just interconnectable 2D boards or will it be a mix of 2D & 3D terrain kits.
Not sure I see myself investing 500+ euros in purely 2D indoors terrain looking too specifically like a space ship. Might get monotonous fast, and the crossover appeal with such terrain for other game systems, dunno. One big plus with KT21 Season 1 terrain was the fact it was all perfectly reusable in 40K/HH..
Not sure I see myself investing 500+ euros in purely 2D indoors terrain
One thing I've always found funny with GW's "2d" terrain is that it has detailed tops. It doesn't imply an invisible ceiling that was sliced off. It implies freestanding cubicle walls in a giant hall.
Well I’ve ordered ItD anyway, so I’ll have to make do.
Still unsure on the breachers, but looks like they can be moved on for £45 posted, so that’s a bit back for them anyway.
Snippets from the article today- indirect fire weapons become range-limited to, uh, blue square.
Artillery support still functions (although may be reduced in efficacy in some way). I suspect this is to avoid shaking up the balance of teams like veteran guardsmen too much, but it is rationalised as navy assets bombarding the hulk in support. Fair enough.
Haighus wrote: Snippets from the article today- indirect fire weapons become range-limited to, uh, blue square.
Artillery support still functions (although may be reduced in efficacy in some way). I suspect this is to avoid shaking up the balance of teams like veteran guardsmen too much, but it is rationalised as navy assets bombarding the hulk in support. Fair enough.
Blue Square is 3" and with positioning being one of the most important aspects, that pretty much makes all sorts of indirect weapons that the Veteran Team has unusable. Though it should be noted that torrent, blast and splash get's boosted to 5+ crits. Anyway, I think the +4 Soldiers bonus still far outshines the Strategic Weapons in almost every scenario. Overall I am confident that the Veterans will come out alright in the new season and it certainly is nice to see a reason to take the Grenade Launcher and Demolition Specialists for a change. I would have preferred if every Team would have gotten a designated breacher though. (e.g. the Demolitions expert) The hardest aspect of this season is certainly the complete separation that the battlefield forces on you and it is a major boon to be able to open that up, even if just once per game.
Haighus wrote: Snippets from the article today- indirect fire weapons become range-limited to, uh, blue square.
Artillery support still functions (although may be reduced in efficacy in some way). I suspect this is to avoid shaking up the balance of teams like veteran guardsmen too much, but it is rationalised as navy assets bombarding the hulk in support. Fair enough.
Blue Square is 3" and with positioning being one of the most important aspects, that pretty much makes all sorts of indirect weapons that the Veteran Team has unusable. Though it should be noted that torrent, blast and splash get's boosted to 5+ crits. Anyway, I think the +4 Soldiers bonus still far outshines the Strategic Weapons in almost every scenario. Overall I am confident that the Veterans will come out alright in the new season and it certainly is nice to see a reason to take the Grenade Launcher and Demolition Specialists for a change. I would have preferred if every Team would have gotten a designated breacher though. (e.g. the Demolitions expert) The hardest aspect of this season is certainly the complete separation that the battlefield forces on you and it is a major boon to be able to open that up, even if just once per game.
Indeed. With most games only lasting 4 turning points, mistakes in team positioning will become the main reason for losing battles. Each team getting a breacher of sorts would mitigate that at least to some degree..
Indirect weapons can still be used "directly" btw, so they wont be entirely useless against targets further than BLUE away. I can see a lot more flamers being fielded tho!
tauist wrote: Yeah, will be interesting to see where it will go from here. The lore in IttD campaign book suggestes that there are even habitable biospheres inside the Gallowdark. So will it all be just interconnectable 2D boards or will it be a mix of 2D & 3D terrain kits.
Not sure I see myself investing 500+ euros in purely 2D indoors terrain looking too specifically like a space ship. Might get monotonous fast, and the crossover appeal with such terrain for other game systems, dunno. One big plus with KT21 Season 1 terrain was the fact it was all perfectly reusable in 40K/HH..
Same. I suspect I can get similar use out of Necromunda terrain (confined walled spaces), and have more general utility (LOS blocking when more spaced out on larger boards).
While tight corridors with no room for anything bigger than a terminator work for some areas of a space hulk, the scale also suggests large, open and multi-level spaces as well. This seems overly limited.
He's saying that wall breaching is a misinterpretation of the rules and as such it will be removed as soon as new FAQ/Erratas get published. Kind of funny since the WH+ batrep by GW (mis)used wall breaching rules!
Reading the background of IttD, it definitely sounds like the opposition in at least one or two of the follow boxes will be chaos.
There are two cities that are inhabited by cultists, and something seems to have woken up as the hulk has entered realspace and is making everyone go mad. There's several mentions of graffiti along the lines of "make the voices stop!", in one case written in blood after the author bit their own fingers off.
The astropaths and navigators of the Imperial fleet have sickened and are plagued by terrible visions.
Tastyfish wrote: Reading the background of IttD, it definitely sounds like the opposition in at least one or two of the follow boxes will be chaos.
There are two cities that are inhabited by cultists, and something seems to have woken up as the hulk has entered realspace and is making everyone go mad. There's several mentions of graffiti along the lines of "make the voices stop!", in one case written in blood after the author bit their own fingers off.
The astropaths and navigators of the Imperial fleet have sickened and are plagued by terrible visions.
Sounds like a job for the Inquisition... Better call a random 40k unit then.
Kasrkin as imperial storm troopers would be such a disappointment, though that would be mitigated if the Inquisitor turned up in box 3.
There's a quote from a Lugganath Farseer but I think it is focused on Space hulks in general.
I think I should add that there are loads and loads of minor races mentioned, a good sampling of the Tau auxiliaries and a handful that are specific to Gallowdark itself.
Kasrkin are coming. but I'd be prepared for this being Kill Team 2021s version of V2's Rogue Trader. I think we're going to get some odd stuff.
Daemonship crew and perhaps Dark Mech cult perhaps. A combined Chaos cult with like Wyrmblade if we're unlucky.
I don't think we'll see a League team (perhaps outside of WD) until the proper army release, not just the launch box which is presumably going to release in Nov, even if the basic warriors set seems to be set up with Kill Team in mind.
It seems a shame to include an existing unit in a new Kill team box with a faction with so few units (and it'd be a shame to include a new unit and not have it in the codex at the start). Kill team seems perfect for a League Prospector unit to pop up there. Wouldn't be suprised to see them arrive at the start of next Season, being the first of the new units for the updated codex in 18-24 months time.
Guess/wishlist:
Shadowvaults: Kasrkin vs Daemonship crew (daemon kill team)
Soulshackle: Inquisitor* vs Dark Mechanicus (negavolt cultists and some servitors)
Gallowfall: Grey Knights vs almost literally anyone (perhaps even League prospectors as it would be 9 months from now, so potentially half way to the new LoV book) with the GK going to blow up the hulk vs a few late comers wanting to strip it for parts.
*I think we might be surprised with the catachan dueling blade from the rumour engine ending up not being an IG unit or character, but literally Sgt Stone in a retinue. It also wouldn't suprise me if the rack of books end up being that Inquisitor's sage.
I'm still not convinced Kasrkin will be involved at all in KT.
Why?
Because the quote bubble in the book for "Into the Dark" is of the last surviving member of a Kasrkin regiment. As in: they're all dead.
Personal speculation is that there's a dedicated Cult Mechanicus-themed KT coming as one of these. It's about damned time we get plastic Combat Servitors, and we STILL need a general release version of Daedalosius now that it's in the codex proper.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm still not convinced Kasrkin will be involved at all in KT.
Why?
Because the quote bubble in the book for "Into the Dark" is of the last surviving member of a Kasrkin regiment. As in: they're all dead.
'Last surviving' just means last dude to get back to base to report. For all they know, there could be isolated squads out there, left for dead, fighting isolated in the dark.
"They scratch at the walls and the doors. Always, always scratching. Trying to find a way through. I here them screeching, clamouring for blood. I'm the last one left. The whole company is dead. They're all gone. Only a matter of time until I'm dead too. I'm not going down lightly. If anyone finds this message, know that Cadia stood here, it stood with us"
- Karskin Jormo Gedansk
It's an audiolog that (presumably) has been picked up, or at least could have been. There's next that is from an omniscient narrator where it describes the early history of Gallowdark, there's fiction from the PoV of individuals, and snippets that are someone talking to someone else to provide flavour.
I suspect another company of Kasrkin will be sent in and could have found that log.
There's no more Kasrkin to be had on board of the Gallowdark. Sure, another company could be sent in..but why would they be?
The Navy handles that stuff. It's not a Guard thing. The Navy's there already.
Add to it that we literally already have a Guard bespoke KT in the form of the Veterans and it becomes a pointless exercise. Not to mention that by all accounts the Guard release coming isn't half as large as the Aeldari one was, which utilized a Big Box(Eldritch Omens) and a KT box to stagger some of the releases out.
I got lost on 'the Karskin were sent to the Gallowdark and died, its impossible that Karskin would ever be sent to the Gallowdark.'
Even setting aside the Guard tendency towards sending in reinforcements to a meat grinder, that they were already there is exhibit A that they're willing to send them there.
Find it funny that I haven't wanted any Scion minis since they released, but the Starstriders are going to finally get me to buy some to make Voidsmen with Carapace Armour and Hotshot Lasgun packs so I don't forget who has the upgrades or not.
The more ornate armour designs, which I didn't care for in a Guard army, are great for the Starstriders.
As that snippet does not actually having anything to connect it temporally to the other story events in the book it could just be from after the Kroot are dealt with. Or it could be from the week before, but still also after, because temporal shenanigans are afoot.
Voss wrote: Even setting aside the Guard tendency towards sending in reinforcements to a meat grinder, that they were already there is exhibit A that they're willing to send them there.
But Voss, we literally already have a Guard bespoke KT in the form of the Veterans, not to mention that by all accounts the Guard release coming isn't half as large as the Eldar release. This means, beyond all shadow of a doubt - ironclad, set in stone, take it to the bank! - that Kasrikin can't possibly ever be part of a KT release.
If we’re speculating on possible future teams, I’m really hoping we get more teams with the “I didn’t see that coming” effect.
To my mind, Kill Team is at its best model wise, when it releases teams that have always existed in the lore but haven’t ever had a plastic kit and probably wouldn’t be at home in a 40K army. The standout teams so far for me, have been the Corsairs and the Navy Breachers.
Of course, what I really want is something Ecclesiarchy related. A team of crusaders, death cultists and other weirdness - basically everything I love in the lore, but gets little love in plastic minis.
Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..
I was also thinking how every box from Season 2 might come together and combine to form a bigger board, here's a draft showing how it could work:
Mr_Rose wrote: As that snippet does not actually having anything to connect it temporally to the other story events in the book it could just be from after the Kroot are dealt with. Or it could be from the week before, but still also after, because temporal shenanigans are afoot.
Are the expansions taking place in Chronological order, or could it be 3 or 4 different stories that all tie together in the end?
Mr_Rose wrote: As that snippet does not actually having anything to connect it temporally to the other story events in the book it could just be from after the Kroot are dealt with. Or it could be from the week before, but still also after, because temporal shenanigans are afoot.
Are the expansions taking place in Chronological order, or could it be 3 or 4 different stories that all tie together in the end?
Exactly.
Or y’know they could occur in reverse chronological order and tie together in the end because warp time. Accidental time travel is a great plot hook. Maybe the Kasrkin were sent in to rescue the Breachers but arrived on the hulk before they boarded?
tauist wrote: Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..
ZM tiles aren't even all the same size, so... good luck.
I like to think that there never was a plan to release a Killteam box with Kasrkin, but rather that this is all just an internal leaker hunt and the fluff text a final good bye note and gotcha to the one leaker they were filtering down.
Honestly though, even as a Guard player, I severely hope we will see no Kasrkin in Killteam apart from a WD list. It would be a wasted release slot since they already have a kit coming out and similar to the Primaris Killteam, don't offer much in the sense of loadout variety. I'd much rather see dedicated teams from one of the overlooked races. Tyranids, GSC, Necrons, Demons didn't get a team so far and all of them could need new/updated units for 40K as well.
The only Imperial faction that would be nice is an Inquisitorial retinue, but GW hates the idea of that it seems. Or maybe Catachans, because they are almost old enough to think about a coffin insurance. But then I would like the terrain to be a Tyranid infested mess, you know, wishlisting and all that.
"They scratch at the walls and the doors. Always, always scratching. Trying to find a way through. I here them screeching, clamouring for blood. I'm the last one left. The whole company is dead. They're all gone. Only a matter of time until I'm dead too. I'm not going down lightly. If anyone finds this message, know that Cadia stood here, it stood with us"
- Karskin Jormo Gedansk
Oh that's Jormo being a total drama queen like always. The company isn't dead, they're just getting in some rack time. I swear Jormo sees a rat and he goes on like it's a hoard of genestealers.
"They scratch at the walls and the doors. Always, always scratching. Trying to find a way through. I here them screeching, clamouring for blood. I'm the last one left. The whole company is dead. They're all gone. Only a matter of time until I'm dead too. I'm not going down lightly. If anyone finds this message, know that Cadia stood here, it stood with us"
- Karskin Jormo Gedansk
Oh that's Jormo being a total drama queen like always. The company isn't dead, they're just getting in some rack time. I swear Jormo sees a rat and he goes on like it's a hoard of genestealers.
Nothing jumps out of this set, I'd definitely be curious if some other sets brought back some more height but kept the 'can't shoot across walls' rule for a mini second level.
That or you want 30/40k Zone mortalis.
A bunch of my stuff is storage as moving, so curious does this terrain match the scale of the Space Hulk (4e) board? Curious if it could be used to do a full 3d Space Hulk game (obviously a lot more would be needed).
Not for now. I would wait for news about the next big boxes. There is a good chance that following sets will contain some amount of duplicate sprues (in addition to one or two new sprues) and Into the Dark scenery to be available separately as good value Killzone set.
deano2099 wrote: A bunch of my stuff is storage as moving, so curious does this terrain match the scale of the Space Hulk (4e) board? Curious if it could be used to do a full 3d Space Hulk game (obviously a lot more would be needed).
Only with a lot of modification/sawing/magnets involved. And you would need 2 sets at least is my guess. At that point, you might be better of just building it yourself with plasticard.
GiToRaZor wrote: I like to think that there never was a plan to release a Killteam box with Kasrkin, but rather that this is all just an internal leaker hunt and the fluff text a final good bye note and gotcha to the one leaker they were filtering down.
Honestly though, even as a Guard player, I severely hope we will see no Kasrkin in Killteam apart from a WD list. It would be a wasted release slot since they already have a kit coming out and similar to the Primaris Killteam, don't offer much in the sense of loadout variety. I'd much rather see dedicated teams from one of the overlooked races. Tyranids, GSC, Necrons, Demons didn't get a team so far and all of them could need new/updated units for 40K as well.
The only Imperial faction that would be nice is an Inquisitorial retinue, but GW hates the idea of that it seems. Or maybe Catachans, because they are almost old enough to think about a coffin insurance. But then I would like the terrain to be a Tyranid infested mess, you know, wishlisting and all that.
There have been significant rumours at this point that the next box is Kasarkin versus Necrons (with a Tau-esque upgrade sprue) and the box after that is Khornegors. With Adeptus Arbites coming soonish (but probably the first box next year, they don't really fit the Gollowdark tbh).
The amount of diagrams demonstrating edge-cases in how LOS works in relation to the "tight quarters" and hiding behind crevices in walls is making me pass on this one. Its just too convoluted.
This new edition of KT is a HUGE step-up from the last one, but the cover and LOS mechanics need more work to be made more fluid.
tauist wrote: Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..
ZM tiles aren't even all the same size, so... good luck.
Can you elaborate? My zone mortalis tiles are all the same size (12" square plastic)
The Forgeworld ZM tiles are a slightly different size to the new plastics, and I think both are different to the card board sections that came in Underhive and Badzone delta.
In the context of this discussion "Zone Mortalis tiles" refers only to the plastic ones produced by GW. "compatability" is a non-factor within the context of the cardboard sections, as theres nothing for the IttD walls to have to be "compatible" with, and so the cardboard tiles aren't relevant to this discussion. Likewise, ye olde Forgeworld Zone Mortalis tiles are firstly long out of production, but also non-really relevant in the context of this discussion because those tiles were "fixed" and you would never put wall sections on them anyway.
tauist wrote: Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..
ZM tiles aren't even all the same size, so... good luck.
Can you elaborate? My zone mortalis tiles are all the same size (12" square plastic)
Okay. Zone Mortalis squares aren't even all the same size. It's not an even grid.
GiToRaZor wrote: I like to think that there never was a plan to release a Killteam box with Kasrkin, but rather that this is all just an internal leaker hunt and the fluff text a final good bye note and gotcha to the one leaker they were filtering down.
Reminder, once again: we have seen pictures of the Kasrkin kill team. The models that were previewed are clearly on the kill team bases, not the standard bases that every other model in the leaked image is on. If that's a leak hunt then someone went to a pretty excessive level of effort to find the leak.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm still not convinced Kasrkin will be involved at all in KT.
Why?
Because for some weird reason you're emotionally invested in the idea of the leaks being wrong and you won't accept that the Kasrkin team exists until GW officially announces it.
We've seen pictures of the Kasrkin. We've also not seen a huge chunk of the items(the new Cadian heavy weapons, new Cadians, Command Squad, and Commissar) in that leaked image--which looks to be from a codex not a KT book--in any meaningful, real photos. For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.
For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.
Kanluwen wrote: For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.
You can clearly see in the leaked picture that they don't. The Kasrkin are the only models on the kill team base.
For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.
Yes, that is definitely a much more plausible answer than the theory that the leak by someone who has posted other accurate leaks is in fact correct.
We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter". The base design originated in BSF, Azrakh, the year 2 mini, is also standing on it. While I wouldn't put it beyond GW to lock a set like Kasrkin for months in a box, I still really don't see them being a Kill Team. Every dedicated for Kill Team new squad had a focus on individualism of the models, with basic loadout as an optional extra to be 40K available. This would rather look like a 40K team gets an upgrade kit to be in Kill Team to me. And that would be doubly weird, all of those kits had models for a while already.
Also, Arbites in a Space Hulk? What are they doing there? Hunting Cultists that left the planet without permit? That sounds way too desperate to be true.
I note from reading the Into the Dark book that the terrain is divided into two Killzones.
Killzone: Gallowdark is all the walls, and then Killzone: Into The Dark is all the other bits (pipes, overhangs).
They seem to have separate rules. Might allow for some speculation on what we'll see in future sets. Almost certainly unique killzones (some different environments are mentioned in the fluff, including a shanty town and somewhere with lots of gantries). But then we also need to take into account that GW have said future boxes will have compatible terrain, so perhaps we will see additional Gallowdark pieces along with with a different unique killzone set in each box?
deano2099 wrote: I note from reading the Into the Dark book that the terrain is divided into two Killzones.
Killzone: Gallowdark is all the walls, and then Killzone: Into The Dark is all the other bits (pipes, overhangs).
They seem to have separate rules. Might allow for some speculation on what we'll see in future sets. Almost certainly unique killzones (some different environments are mentioned in the fluff, including a shanty town and somewhere with lots of gantries). But then we also need to take into account that GW have said future boxes will have compatible terrain, so perhaps we will see additional Gallowdark pieces along with with a different unique killzone set in each box?
Since the box is named Into the Dark I would expect the Killzone: Into The Dark parts to only be included in this box with the Gallowdark parts showing up in the other sets.
Probably less of them in the future but more other pieces
So you get a big base now with the future sets having some additional walls but a bigger focus on other unique things
Kanluwen wrote: We've seen pictures of the Kasrkin. We've also not seen a huge chunk of the items(the new Cadian heavy weapons, new Cadians, Command Squad, and Commissar) in that leaked image--which looks to be from a codex not a KT book--in any meaningful, real photos. For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.
For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.
It's pretty much unprecedented for GW to release a new set of models and put them on different bases. It's designed to be nice and cohesive for marketing photos and the webstore, which is why special characters almost always end up being from the sub-faction Eavy Metal painted or even painted that way when they're not in the lore.
Different basing is one thing, but even the rims of the bases are a different colour to the others.
I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives. I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.
That doesn't mean GW won't do it, but I'd prefer they didn't. It is possible that Kasrkin get White Dwarf/Compendium rules too, like Primaris Intercessors.
Uh, the Krieg squad, the first unit of the new edition, the literal poster boys, are just regular line infantry with an accessory sprue for little things like maps and pocket watches. Kasrkin are at least Elites with close-quarters training and heavy armour that would make them more suited to the kind of urban infiltration operations the new KT seems to be intent on depicting.
Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…
Kind of hilarious the only actual infiltration and recon unit specifically released for the current Kill Team, belongs to the bloody ORKS of all factions.
I would challenge this point and note that the Phobos team is the second infiltration team released for Kill Team that is thematically on point. Pathfinders are not far off either and arguably Wyrmblade fits as the whole faction is a stealthy insurgency.
Corsairs fit the Into the Dark setting best of all the Season 1 factions.
GiToRaZor wrote: We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter".
IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…
Pathfinders are literally infiltration and recon specialists, you know that right?
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Haighus wrote: I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives.
They are actually both. Remember that Kasrkin weren't just a squad--fluffwise, there were entire regiments of them. That included scout/saboteur specialists, heavy weapon teams, etc.
Things do get a bit weird with regards to them anyways. The "Grenadiers" doctrine that was used to represent them simply allowed you to take an additional 3 units as part of your Guard army in the Troop choices. You still took the "Storm Trooper Squads" doctrine as well for the Cadian Shock Troops.
I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.
Being dropped behind enemy lines on suicide missions aren't necessarily "special operations" or "infiltration missions". Remember that Scions are considered just as expendable as the Guard are. It's not hard to find recruits for the Schola Progenium.
I think only Chaos legionaries don't fit the infiltration theme so much for Kill Team 2021 released units personally. Traditionally, Chaos Chosen were the infiltrators. Everything else fits pretty well IMO. Even the Sisters unit is logical if you only have power armoured alternatives if you want to do an infiltration mission.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…
Pathfinders are literally infiltration and recon specialists, you know that right?
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Haighus wrote: I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives.
They are actually both. Remember that Kasrkin weren't just a squad--fluffwise, there were entire regiments of them. That included scout/saboteur specialists, heavy weapon teams, etc.
Things do get a bit weird with regards to them anyways. The "Grenadiers" doctrine that was used to represent them simply allowed you to take an additional 3 units as part of your Guard army in the Troop choices. You still took the "Storm Trooper Squads" doctrine as well for the Cadian Shock Troops.
I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.
Being dropped behind enemy lines on suicide missions aren't necessarily "special operations" or "infiltration missions". Remember that Scions are considered just as expendable as the Guard are. It's not hard to find recruits for the Schola Progenium.
Sure, but in the 3.5 codex, veterans and stormtroopers had infiltrate, and grenadiers explicitly didn't. So the expectation is that the former two are more suited for infiltration than Kasrkin, who tend to spearhead conventional operations.
The organisation of Kasrkin has always been a bit variable- it seems some regiments have Kasrkin grenadier companies, rather than being entirely Kasrkin.
There is loads of lore of stormtroopers doing infiltration and recon stuff, not just combat drops and suicide runs. The back of the 3.5 ed codex with the 3rd War for Armageddon lore snippets includes a mission briefing for an operation where a platoon is tasked with holding an escape route for a single squad of stormtroopers to exfiltrate via after their small-scale assault. The 3rd war campaign website also had several examples of stormtrooper infiltration missions in the Ash Wastes. I am pretty sure I have read more recent examples in lore, but cannot recall them off the top of my head. In contrast, I can't think of any examples of Kasrkin engaging in similar missions in the lore. I'm sure they do, but it seems to be much less of a priority for them.
My copy of Into the Dark arrived! Saturday shall be the first filing & building day for the terrain. I'll have some Zone Mortalis floors and tiles to compare with by then as well.
Here's also a comparison pict showing the diffs between the cards of Octarius and the cards of S2. This season's cards have a printed background graphic, in addition to the "corrected" wording on this particular card..
GiToRaZor wrote: We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter".
IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.
At worst astrological, and I doubt they'll release it on Christmas. Also remember we almost always have delays. Chances are we see only a partial release of a box in December, full codex release in January and then the same with World Eaters in Feb+March.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yea, quite happy they fixed the cards. Less happy they changed the backs… but only of one set.
Yeah, that was weird.. The card manufacturer ran out of orange colour or something?
Anyhoo, about that Annual 2022. Cracked the book open last night, and it's pretty cool! There's 15 new missions in addition to the 6 Kill Team rules. Three multiplayer missions each for both 3 & 4 player games. Three Last Stand missions. Six new sentry missions (unsure if they are a reprint from WD tho).
Last stand seems really cool. The defender has access to 10 defensive assets with which to even the odds a bit. My next game is going to be a Last Stand mission for sure!
There are multiplayer missions in there?....oh crap and here I thought I could spare my pile of shame this growth for another 3 months.....does anyone want to have the Breachers and/or Kroot?
Quick question: Are they any good?
We've played a lot of 3 player rounds and the balancing always tilts in round 2 and makes the games less enjoyable. Is there a systematic solution for this in there or is it still: people better have foresight in round 1....
chaos0xomega wrote: IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.
At worst astrological, and I doubt they'll release it on Christmas. Also remember we almost always have delays. Chances are we see only a partial release of a box in December, full codex release in January and then the same with World Eaters in Feb+March.
The roadmap pretty clearly says "2022-23", meaning "Winter" is almost certainly December to February. Fairly unlikely we'll see both of those codexes this year.
If the IG Combat Patrol is all new models as rumoured, I could see them dropping that, the Guard codex, and a new Kill Team box before Xmas with a followup IG wave in January. Then World Eaters starting in Feb as you say.
GiToRaZor wrote: There are multiplayer missions in there?....oh crap and here I thought I could spare my pile of shame this growth for another 3 months.....does anyone want to have the Breachers and/or Kroot?
Quick question: Are they any good?
We've played a lot of 3 player rounds and the balancing always tilts in round 2 and makes the games less enjoyable. Is there a systematic solution for this in there or is it still: people better have foresight in round 1....
The multiplayer missions are in the Annual 2022 book (which is the last item GW made for KT21S1), not in Into the Dark box. I just bought both at the same time.
the multiplayer rules themselves are pretty basic. Games use two gameboards instead of one, Tac Ops are not used, and iniative is rolled off every turn by all players involved.
GiToRaZor wrote: There are multiplayer missions in there?....oh crap and here I thought I could spare my pile of shame this growth for another 3 months.....does anyone want to have the Breachers and/or Kroot?
Quick question: Are they any good?
We've played a lot of 3 player rounds and the balancing always tilts in round 2 and makes the games less enjoyable. Is there a systematic solution for this in there or is it still: people better have foresight in round 1....
The multiplayer missions are in the Annual 2022 book (which is the last item GW made for KT21S1), not in Into the Dark box. I just bought both at the same time.
the multiplayer rules themselves are pretty basic. Games use two gameboards instead of one, Tac Ops are not used, and iniative is rolled off every turn by all players involved.
Well thank you. That sounds pretty bad. we also started with a double map at first and developed modifications that the initiative roll works with 3 players. The problem is though, that simply doesn't work out. With a double map, one player will always have a massive advantage, since you can't really triangle it. Our solution now is that we came up with an hexogon board cutout of 2 joined boards and always reinterpret the mission zones. That works better. But as said, in turn 2 usually the balance shifts. Either 2 players hack each other apart and there is a laughing third (the usual outcome from the double map btw) or 2 players grind one in between them. The only way to stop it is to plan for that in turn 1 already and place some models in an indicicive start position. The hexagon helps here very well, since it shortens the distances.
GiToRaZor wrote: There are multiplayer missions in there?....oh crap and here I thought I could spare my pile of shame this growth for another 3 months.....does anyone want to have the Breachers and/or Kroot?
Quick question: Are they any good?
We've played a lot of 3 player rounds and the balancing always tilts in round 2 and makes the games less enjoyable. Is there a systematic solution for this in there or is it still: people better have foresight in round 1....
The multiplayer missions are in the Annual 2022 book (which is the last item GW made for KT21S1), not in Into the Dark box. I just bought both at the same time.
the multiplayer rules themselves are pretty basic. Games use two gameboards instead of one, Tac Ops are not used, and iniative is rolled off every turn by all players involved.
Well thank you. That sounds pretty bad. we also started with a double map at first and developed modifications that the initiative roll works with 3 players. The problem is though, that simply doesn't work out. With a double map, one player will always have a massive advantage, since you can't really triangle it. Our solution now is that we came up with an hexogon board cutout of 2 joined boards and always reinterpret the mission zones. That works better. But as said, in turn 2 usually the balance shifts. Either 2 players hack each other apart and there is a laughing third (the usual outcome from the double map btw) or 2 players grind one in between them. The only way to stop it is to plan for that in turn 1 already and place some models in an indicicive start position. The hexagon helps here very well, since it shortens the distances.
Just have one player play two Kill Teams, while the other two are allied against them. Unless you are trying to do a free for all, having somebody run an extra Kill Team is the easiest way to solve your problem.
Gregor Samsa wrote: The amount of diagrams demonstrating edge-cases in how LOS works in relation to the "tight quarters" and hiding behind crevices in walls is making me pass on this one. Its just too convoluted.
This new edition of KT is a HUGE step-up from the last one, but the cover and LOS mechanics need more work to be made more fluid.
I feel it is secretly simple, but that explanation is hidden away in the warp somewhere, and until then we are scratching heads.
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Haighus wrote: I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about.
Do they need it?
As it stands you can build
Officer with options, including fancy cloak
Servo skull which I guess would be EP, but could be a recon thing
Sarge
Trooper
Grenades to make grenadier
Medic who could have the option of some kind of apothecary tool
Standard Bearer
Vox-caster
Plasma
Melta
Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Hot shot volley
And if they can bare the consequences of mixing kits, a sniper (unlikely I know, but I did build Scion Snipers for my valkries, BHD style...)
Throw in some 'elite' equipment like melta bombs, tweak the tactical ploys and the like and you have a decent team.
The Phobos Strike Team started off well in June, but as their popularity has increased, their win rate has fallen behind. They’ve performed better than average in terms of podiums and event wins, so we believe they are a high-skill team with great potential. They can struggle, however, against other elite teams such as the popular Heretic Astartes Legionaries and the new Intercession Squad teams, so we’ve given them a new Strategic Ploy that will be particularly useful against those teams – we will continue to track their progress.
Great shame - I had hoped they would get a Phobos Eliminator to complete the armour set as it were.
I like incompetence of whatever clown GW put in charge of Primaris range. "Hmm, Phobos struggle because they have zero access to melee weapons (unless you're Ultramarine or Salamander for some weird reason)? Even what was supposed to be frakking dedicated melee unit of the whole Primaris lineup? And no melta guns or other special weapons or explosives to make them actually dangerous up close when they infiltrate (which is their whole job, really), bolters only? And now we need to fix them in the game of 'your dudes' where every model is heavily converted and uses lots of bits from other kits we sell? Eureka! Yes, I know, let's give them useless, immersion breaking magic shooting stratagem! And certainly not plug big glaring hole in their lineup, even though models and bits for it already exist! Genius!"
Gregor Samsa wrote: The amount of diagrams demonstrating edge-cases in how LOS works in relation to the "tight quarters" and hiding behind crevices in walls is making me pass on this one. Its just too convoluted.
This new edition of KT is a HUGE step-up from the last one, but the cover and LOS mechanics need more work to be made more fluid.
I feel it is secretly simple, but that explanation is hidden away in the warp somewhere, and until then we are scratching heads.
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Haighus wrote: I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about.
Do they need it?
As it stands you can build
Officer with options, including fancy cloak
Servo skull which I guess would be EP, but could be a recon thing
Sarge
Trooper
Grenades to make grenadier
Medic who could have the option of some kind of apothecary tool
Standard Bearer
Vox-caster
Plasma
Melta
Flamer
Grenade Launcher
Hot shot volley
And if they can bare the consequences of mixing kits, a sniper (unlikely I know, but I did build Scion Snipers for my valkries, BHD style...)
Throw in some 'elite' equipment like melta bombs, tweak the tactical ploys and the like and you have a decent team.
Eh, can still add some neat new options methinks. Add actual bits for a grenadier/demolition specialist, spotter/scout specialist, melee specialist, and so on. I'm sure there are other options I haven't thought of from the top of my head.
GW is not encouraging kitbashing anymore, so the options need to be in the kit (like snipers- no way they'd add this without new parts).
Come to think of it, GW could release an upgrade sprue for Scions specifically with parts for Inquisitorial stormtroopers, that would be ace. We will probably get Kasrkin though...
There have been significant rumours at this point that the next box is Kasarkin versus Necrons (with a Tau-esque upgrade sprue) and the box after that is Khornegors. With Adeptus Arbites coming soonish (but probably the first box next year, they don't really fit the Gollowdark tbh).
Irbis wrote: Eureka! Yes, I know, let's give them useless, immersion breaking magic shooting stratagem! And certainly not plug big glaring hole in their lineup, even though models and bits for it already exist! Genius!"
Or, since we exist to sell models, why not add eliminators (in phobos armour) to the team to handle elites like legionnaires. Would fit, use all the phobos option in one squad, Heavy would stop it dominating... nah. Random special rule.
Yay, more mixed, muddled load-outs. And free upgrades. And arbitrarily locked weapon combos (how dare anyone try to use a bolt pistol with a chainsword! Oh, no just navy sergeants. Chaos sergeants are free to do that. But they can't have more than one guy taking sniper rifles or plasma guns to the battle, that's just gauche).
And magic AP reduction spreads yet further. How many more books before they just admit that they screw up the AP system?
latest gossip on the next KT21S2 box, Karskin (new team) vs Necrons (upgrade sprue team):
If these turn out to be on point, the next box will get a firm pass from me. I'll just get the Campaign book & Karskin kit separately when they get their individual releases.
We JUST got Into the Dark. It went up on September 3rd for preorders.
No frigging way is this a Gallowdark set, or if it is then GW needs to reevaluate what they consider to be "quarters".
That all being said...it does have the possibility of being a replacement for the "current" KT starter of Kommandos v Krieg. Especially as they could just be reusing the terrain from Pariah Nexus.
Kanluwen wrote: I have a hard time believing this. I really do.
We JUST got Into the Dark. It went up on September 3rd for preorders.
No frigging way is this a Gallowdark set, or if it is then GW needs to reevaluate what they consider to be "quarters".
That all being said...it does have the possibility of being a replacement for the "current" KT starter of Kommandos v Krieg. Especially as they could just be reusing the terrain from Pariah Nexus.
It would be perfectly on track for a quarterly schedule if the next gallowdark box was revealed during October then go on sale at the end of Nov / first week of Dec. The last few KT boxes have been unveiled 4-6 weeks after the previous one, so we'll likely see this confirmed or disproven soon. The 40k anniversary preview is when I'd bet to see some news.
I could see the next box going into preorder on the first week of November, with a box reveal sometime early October. Would just about qualify as a 3 month pause between boxes.
Perhaps GW needs to bring the next box out early, their release plans for Xmas season might be all maxed out so they need to bring the box a lil early to make room for other shinies..
Yay, more mixed, muddled load-outs. And free upgrades. And arbitrarily locked weapon combos (how dare anyone try to use a bolt pistol with a chainsword! Oh, no just navy sergeants. Chaos sergeants are free to do that. But they can't have more than one guy taking sniper rifles or plasma guns to the battle, that's just gauche).
And magic AP reduction spreads yet further. How many more books before they just admit that they screw up the AP system?
To be fair, Kroot having access to more than one Accelerator Bow would be incredibly gamebreaking, so it's obviously a deliberate balance reason.
Yay, more mixed, muddled load-outs. And free upgrades. And arbitrarily locked weapon combos (how dare anyone try to use a bolt pistol with a chainsword! Oh, no just navy sergeants. Chaos sergeants are free to do that. But they can't have more than one guy taking sniper rifles or plasma guns to the battle, that's just gauche).
And magic AP reduction spreads yet further. How many more books before they just admit that they screw up the AP system?
To be fair, Kroot having access to more than one Accelerator Bow would be incredibly gamebreaking, so it's obviously a deliberate balance reason.
Is that sarcasm? I can't tell anymore, but I'm puzzled on how the kroot bow affects imperial and chaos standard special weapons or sergeants.
I'm sorry, I still don't get the complaint. That half a box of Guard from a different game can't make a full Kill Team? Could 7 guard ever make a unit of anything?
It was a real kick in my teeth when I bought Blackstone Fortress and found out they put the minimum squad size for Chaos Space Marines as 5! As an early adopter of Chaos Space Marines, my 2 should be a perfectly adequate unit.
Rihgu wrote: It was a real kick in my teeth when I bought Blackstone Fortress and found out they put the minimum squad size for Chaos Space Marines as 5! As an early adopter of Chaos Space Marines, my 2 should be a perfectly adequate unit.
As an early adopter of Man o war I felt that I got screwed over because I couldnt use my rowboats in 40k, I could only enjoy them if I painted them or used them in games of MAn o War, what a crock
Yay, more mixed, muddled load-outs. And free upgrades. And arbitrarily locked weapon combos (how dare anyone try to use a bolt pistol with a chainsword! Oh, no just navy sergeants. Chaos sergeants are free to do that. But they can't have more than one guy taking sniper rifles or plasma guns to the battle, that's just gauche).
And magic AP reduction spreads yet further. How many more books before they just admit that they screw up the AP system?
To be fair, Kroot having access to more than one Accelerator Bow would be incredibly gamebreaking, so it's obviously a deliberate balance reason.
Is that sarcasm? I can't tell anymore, but I'm puzzled on how the kroot bow affects imperial and chaos standard special weapons or sergeants.
It's sarcasm. I hate the Plague Marine format of weapon options.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm sorry, I still don't get the complaint. That half a box of Guard from a different game can't make a full Kill Team? Could 7 guard ever make a unit of anything?
IIRC there were 40k rules for BSF figures including the specific 7 traitor guard you got in the box.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm sorry, I still don't get the complaint. That half a box of Guard from a different game can't make a full Kill Team? Could 7 guard ever make a unit of anything?
IIRC there were 40k rules for BSF figures including the specific 7 traitor guard you got in the box.
Yes, they should still be in the box (that is still available).
It sucks for 40k, but the BSF Traitor Guard are still very good if you play Kill Team though, because it means you can build most of the specialists and just use the BSF models for any lasguns/flamer.
Tastyfish wrote: 40k day apparently also includes Kill team, so we should get a sneak preview of the next Gallowdark set next weekend.
That would be amazing, but this far out I’m not expecting a full box reveal. A preview of one of the teams is probably the best we can hope for.
I'm wondering if we'll get a tease for the next Gallowdark set and the rumored Kasrkin v Necron box is meant to replace the existing "core" set. Pariah Nexus came with scatter scenery that could potentially be used.
Considering we're not really expecting Necrons anywhere outside Kill Team, I'd say that's reasonable.
I don't know what they intend to upgrade with a sprue, but Crypteks are built on Warrior bodies, so that should be an expectation in some fashion. Even if they go with the most common unit, they'd be able to do a Cryptek, pseudo-Cryptek or apprentice Cryptek of some sort. If they base it on an Immortal body, we might get a Cryptek +1, which would also make for a nice change of pace.
Considering Kill Team uses standard troopers in specialist roles, which clashed with mixing members of different unit as one would expect of Necrons and which doesn't really mesh with GW's approach to selling Kill Teams, the go to for Necron specialists should be Cryptek related. I'd expect that to be the angle, either apprentice Crypteks or experiments to break out of the monotony of the set roles Necron units have.
And of course there'll be an oddball choice like the Novitiate Repentia cosplayer, because GW just can't resist these things no matter how little sense they make, so there should be a pseudo-Flayed One on the sprue.
Provided the Necron upgrade sprue actually happens, which I really hope it does.
Geifer wrote: Considering we're not really expecting Necrons anywhere outside Kill Team, I'd say that's reasonable.
I don't know what they intend to upgrade with a sprue, but Crypteks are built on Warrior bodies, so that should be an expectation in some fashion. Even if they go with the most common unit, they'd be able to do a Cryptek, pseudo-Cryptek or apprentice Cryptek of some sort. If they base it on an Immortal body, we might get a Cryptek +1, which would also make for a nice change of pace.
Considering Kill Team uses standard troopers in specialist roles, which clashed with mixing members of different unit as one would expect of Necrons and which doesn't really mesh with GW's approach to selling Kill Teams, the go to for Necron specialists should be Cryptek related. I'd expect that to be the angle, either apprentice Crypteks or experiments to break out of the monotony of the set roles Necron units have.
And of course there'll be an oddball choice like the Novitiate Repentia cosplayer, because GW just can't resist these things no matter how little sense they make, so there should be a pseudo-Flayed One on the sprue.
Provided the Necron upgrade sprue actually happens, which I really hope it does.
I think the Immortals/Deathmarks kit is the most likely, because it has three different weapon options already, and Deathmarks are interdimensional assassins that fit Kill Team reasonably well.
Geifer wrote: Considering we're not really expecting Necrons anywhere outside Kill Team, I'd say that's reasonable.
I don't know what they intend to upgrade with a sprue, but Crypteks are built on Warrior bodies, so that should be an expectation in some fashion. Even if they go with the most common unit, they'd be able to do a Cryptek, pseudo-Cryptek or apprentice Cryptek of some sort. If they base it on an Immortal body, we might get a Cryptek +1, which would also make for a nice change of pace.
Considering Kill Team uses standard troopers in specialist roles, which clashed with mixing members of different unit as one would expect of Necrons and which doesn't really mesh with GW's approach to selling Kill Teams, the go to for Necron specialists should be Cryptek related. I'd expect that to be the angle, either apprentice Crypteks or experiments to break out of the monotony of the set roles Necron units have.
And of course there'll be an oddball choice like the Novitiate Repentia cosplayer, because GW just can't resist these things no matter how little sense they make, so there should be a pseudo-Flayed One on the sprue.
Provided the Necron upgrade sprue actually happens, which I really hope it does.
Hear me out… Necron Pariah Kill Team. The perfect way to reintroduce them
Haighus wrote: I think the Immortals/Deathmarks kit is the most likely, because it has three different weapon options already, and Deathmarks are interdimensional assassins that fit Kill Team reasonably well.
I don't mean to be negative, but people seemed to think that Phobos snipers would be a great addition and look how that worked out.
The big problem with Kill Team is that it is a setting made for elite operatives, but GW goes out of their way to make it about specialized standard troops instead of special forces whose actual job it is to run these kinds of operations. Which makes me reluctant to believe in elite operatives that fit the bill perfectly.
Segersgia wrote: Hear me out… Necron Pariah Kill Team. The perfect way to reintroduce them
Oh, I'm hearing you out. I'd be delighted to get Pariahs back. Of course the problem is, I may be listening, but is GW? Yeah...
Haighus wrote: I think the Immortals/Deathmarks kit is the most likely, because it has three different weapon options already, and Deathmarks are interdimensional assassins that fit Kill Team reasonably well.
I don't mean to be negative, but people seemed to think that Phobos snipers would be a great addition and look how that worked out.
The big problem with Kill Team is that it is a setting made for elite operatives, but GW goes out of their way to make it about specialized standard troops instead of special forces whose actual job it is to run these kinds of operations. Which makes me reluctant to believe in elite operatives that fit the bill perfectly.
Immortals are troops choices. They share a sprue with deathmarks. Extremely low hanging fruit for adding an upgrade sprue and getting a ton of options for one team. Sure, could be warriors instead, but immortals/deathmarks are the way more obvious choice.
Also, I am not sure how Ork kommandos, Tau pathfinders, Aeldari corsairs, the special kroot, Navy armsmen breachers, and the phobos marines they did give rules for are "specialised standard troops". They are just specialists, mainly in raiding, infiltration, and/or recon. The legionary unit and traitor guardsmen are standard troops with extra specialists in specific roles, the veteran guardsmen are, well, veterans and occupy a similar position in their list to immortals. The novitiates are a bit weird in being basically green troops.
Haighus wrote: I think the Immortals/Deathmarks kit is the most likely, because it has three different weapon options already, and Deathmarks are interdimensional assassins that fit Kill Team reasonably well.
I don't mean to be negative, but people seemed to think that Phobos snipers would be a great addition and look how that worked out.
Eliminators and the Vanguard Company(10th) in general fall into a weird spot. They're broadly equivalent to Devastators rather than a squad upgrade, so them not being fielded is not crazy.
The big problem with Kill Team is that it is a setting made for elite operatives, but GW goes out of their way to make it about specialized standard troops instead of special forces whose actual job it is to run these kinds of operations. Which makes me reluctant to believe in elite operatives that fit the bill perfectly.
Kill Teams aren't just elite operatives though. They're also schmucks thrown together for a specific task.
If they really wanted to highlight the "special forces" for them? We wouldn't have the Security Archetype or any of that nonsense.
Segersgia wrote: Hear me out… Necron Pariah Kill Team. The perfect way to reintroduce them
Oh, I'm hearing you out. I'd be delighted to get Pariahs back. Of course the problem is, I may be listening, but is GW? Yeah...
Frankly, Pariahs coming back via Kill Team would be daft.
Also, Triarch Praetorians and Deathmarks both are really good fits as a KT concept. They're considered to be outside of the "normal" forces that Lord might have at their disposal, with the Triarch being beholden to the Silent King not the Dynasties and Deathmarks considered outcasts for being assassins.
With all of that said, I'm now kinda/sorta thinking the Technomancer/Cryptek bit is a misunderstanding? It might be that Immortals and Deathmarks are being given a "character upgrade" as part of their frame like the Sorcerer for the CSM.
Pariahs don't really strike me as a good choice for a Kill Team. That is in their old archetype of an elite melee unit that has anti psyker capabilities, all with the same loadout.
Ideally a Kill Team is an asortment of individuals, each with a different loadout, some with special rules to circumvent restictions, some geared more towards area control, close combat, damage dealing or long range sniping etc etc. The "best" team we saw so far that held this up is the Corsairs Kill Team.
The old Pariah unit would be exactly as boring to play as a pure Genestealer Kill Team. They are mind numbing to play and even more mind numbing to play against.
What they could do of course is completely reinvent the unit. Change their background, for example towards that they are highly individual new creations and perceived as instable by the Cryptecs. Something along the lines of merging multiple fractured immortals personalities, or downright throwing a blank human into the furnaces of biotransference. As a result having a unit with an unorthodox loadout and give them anti psyker capabilities on top.
Of course, this would mean that they resemble the old paraihs only in name and hardly in function. Even if they give the "regular trooper" a Phase Axe/Halberd.
I mean you could keep them as they were, even have some with the old load out - you just then have a few extra loadouts and have it as being using human pariahs gives an Overlord a flexible team that can think on it's feet but at the same time will never be a threat in the same way a high level necron could be.
The idea of Necrons below character level in 40K having anything like individuality is a bit odd considering how much they’ve been playing up the tragedy of the Necrontyr being wiped out to make soulless robot duplicates with only the barest fragments of personality left in 40K.
Specialist dont have to require individuality. Some factions may have Stitches, the guy with the training and narthecum to patch up his team mates, or you could have Photep 47, an immortal equipped with a Blackstone nanocloud simply because the cryptek who issued the assignment determined that it would increase mission success chance by 17% and 47 was simply standing closest to the cryptek at the time.
I would have thought that Lychgurad/Praetorians are almost a certainty if Necrons are getting the upgrade sprue treatment.
They have enough personality to do their own thing independent of direct dynast oversight, Praetorians have been shown to have individual quirks with result in visual distinctions, specialist formations of Lychguard exist (eg. Acquisition Phalanx), as do Lychguard with weapons not currently represented (scythe/shield, axe, ranged weapons).
'We need some sort of leader Immortal'
'Oh you mean a Royal Warden?'
'No, no something else'
'So you mean an Appointed Immortal?'
'No lets call it a Despotek and make it have the exact same equipment as the other two!'
Gallowdark pt2 is just as disappointing as I expected. Mostly the same scenery again with the exception of one new accessory sprue, just like I predicted.
Void war bases are super cool though. I'm glad that I didn't build Into the Dark teams yet.
I love the kasrkin and the murdertrailers, but was hoping for squats and more unique terrain. Sigh. Oh well. I'll still get it, but I'll upgrade my hopes from Unlikely to Unreasonable for the next box. Gimme squats vs MkIII breachers fighting it out in totally unique DAoT ship terrain.
Beg pardon if this has already been asked - does the new kill team box basically just switch out the teams while still having the same terrain and rulebooks?
I like this set better than 'Into the Dark'.
complex57 wrote: Beg pardon if this has already been asked - does the new kill team box basically just switch out the teams while still having the same terrain and rulebooks?
I like this set better than 'Into the Dark'.
This new box does not come with the core rulebook or essentials needed to play (dice, tokens, barricades, rulers).
The Kasrkin look good... but just don't make much sense infiltrating a space hulk. In the scheme of things, they would have been a much better fit fighting the Chaos Legionaries in season 1, with the Aeldari Corsairs against the Necrons. I hope there are a lot of spare heads on the sprue, FW have stopped producing Cadian gasmask heads...
The Necrons look pretty solid, and they went with the Immortals/Deathmark sprue as I suspected, but with the character Cryptek, which I did not. A Cryptek team of oddities is kind of the only Necron unit that makes sense to have a variety of roles (excepting maybe a Lord's retinue), so glad they did that.
lord_blackfang wrote: Who brought a trailer into the spaceship corridors? How redneck can you get?
You know real ships, much smaller than 40k ones, do have vehicles hauling stuff on them? Both inside and outside? Whole fleets, even (right side of pic)?
Well I was fully prepared to buy into this season of Kill Team. I might actually give this a miss though. I’m just not feeling the need to buy the same terrain I already got with Into the Dark.
I was really hoping that the subsequent boxes would expand on the terrain with new pieces. This is just disappointing.
Same, I bought 2x copies of into the dark. I will buy the Karskin separately when they are released and await the next set incase of different terrain.
With the terrain being sold separately anyway it's not rush on any future box to buy unless the terrain is truly unique.
NAVARRO wrote: New box already? Did they released the Kroot team individual box?
Nope. Into The Dark box individual pieces are nowhere to be seen yet.
I don't like the fact this box is coming so soon after the Season launch box. I was however planning on getting the book and the Kaskrin separately, now the notion that one needs two boxes of KT21S2 terrain to play "40K zone mortalis in space" makes this box probably the best choice for getting the terrain book and one Kill Team without paying too much extra.. Stupid.
Surprised that the Kasrkin are coming so soon, bit annoyed as well, as I've been gifted a second box of Into the Dark, already have more than enough terrain! ?
Pretty weird choice to include tiny helper robots for the necrons, but not use the ones that are specifically designed to be used by Crypteks.
Cryptothralls only come with the plasmancer, so it would have been nice to have a few others around. Especially if they'd get ranged options or something.
GaroRobe wrote: Cryptothralls only come with the plasmancer, so it would have been nice to have a few others around. Especially if they'd get ranged options or something.
But then there wouldn't be any room for some slightly different Deathmark heads, now would there?
GaroRobe wrote: Cryptothralls only come with the plasmancer, so it would have been nice to have a few others around. Especially if they'd get ranged options or something.
Seems to me those would be a fairly easy conversion and then "counts as..."
I think a big part of my negative reaction to this release isn’t just the repeated terrain. It’s that it feels just too soon. I don’t feel like I’ve got the full value out of the Into the Dark box yet. I’m not ready to buy more and the lack of exciting new terrain options isn’t triggering my FOMO.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I think a big part of my negative reaction to this release isn’t just the repeated terrain. It’s that it feels just too soon. I don’t feel like I’ve got the full value out of the Into the Dark box yet. I’m not ready to buy more and the lack of exciting new terrain options isn’t triggering my FOMO.
Agreed. I still have some burnout from painting the into the dark terrain. Not really feeling ready to do it again so soon.
So slightly more efficient source of the terrain if you don't need a core book. However to me both teams are less exciting than Kroot and Voidsmen. Eh.
