Albertorius wrote:

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


...ok, wow. That just feels ridiculously oversized to me. That's actually bigger than a primaris, isn't it. Could someone compare it with a primaris in gravis armor?

So they have the Gal Vorbak size. Fitting for the chaos chosen. But you can´t mix their squads with older (=smaller) models.

Has somebody clues on the prices of the drone and the crawler? The elites will surely go for the same as the foul blightspawn.

Gal Vorbak are a head and a half taller than terminators? I had no idea that was the case... still, aren't Gal Vorbak Posessed?

You are correct, they are Posessed and also come close to some Primarchs in size.

@Warhams-77: Can´t wait for the price tags. Will the set sizes also be mentioned? Maybe the drones come in sets of 3.

If they can't be taken in squadrons, why would the box have more than one?

Prices

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
You are correct, they are Posessed and also come close to some Primarchs in size.

@Warhams-77: Can´t wait for the price tags. Will the set sizes also be mentioned? Maybe the drones come in sets of 3.

Interesting, thanks!

Hm... doing a GIS the only pics with size comparisons I can find are these:





First pic is a FW MkIII armor besides a GV, second is (I think) besides FW HH marine with Tartaros Terminator legs, and the third one is with a regular HH marine and a Chaos terminator.

If that's correct, it seems to me that they are bigger than the regular FW resin marines and of similar size as a regular terminator... hm. It would be cool to see a Gal Vorbak side by side with these new guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CragHack wrote:
Prices

Spoiler:

55 euros for tank, 40 for drone, chars are 20 each.

Hm... 40 euros for a drone, of 65 euros for a drone, 5 plague marines, a lord, 10 poxwalkers and a lot of primaris...

Decisions, decisions.

From reddit

Plague marine champion: £15
Plague marine icon bearer: £15
Plagueburst Crawler: £40
Bloat drone: £30
All the recent named models that appeared on the WC post are also priced at £15

According to Insane Psychopath over on B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339774-imperial-guard-codex-tactics-nurgle-vehicles-and/?p=4894778) who's apparently got octobers WD.

Death Guard Plague Marines are £30
Death Guard Plague Marine Champion, £15 - This is the one with the Nurling wearing a Deathguard helmet, Champion has the Power Fist & Plague sword.
Death Guard Plague Marine Icon Bearer, £15
Crawler, £40
Drone £30
All Character £15
Typhus £25

So they are putting out a box of guys that has no Champion it seems, and it is an extra 25 bucks for him and on top of that if you want the icon that's 25 bucks again. This is getting ridiculous.

"New" GW my ass.

Nah it sounds like it's a 10 man box with icon + champion parts in it, but there's a separate champion and a separate icon bearer available in clampacks. The icon bearer is the one with the standard not holding the fly icon in his hand, you can see him in the codex, and trhe champion is the one with the Nurgling wearing his helmet. (unless the guy on B&C, Charlo, is wrong/lying)

Likely just spare sculpts they want to make some $ off

from Adeptus Astartes on facebook

one icon bearer and champion per Plague Marine squad is going to get expensive fast

(I wonder if it means the PMs are going to be 5 per box as adding those two will take it to the expected 7 ?)

Thanks for the infos and photos, added to the first post


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The PMs are a ten model box

Warhams-77 wrote:
Thanks for the infos and photos, added to the first post


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The PMs are a ten model box

From the pictures it's looking like 7 can you confirm?

I was looking at my DG codex last night and wondering if the icon bearer and champion were separate models. Interesting but expensive.

The bloat drone is about £10 more than I thought it would be.

adeptus astartes again, the full PM page

They're really going to charge $84 for 7 Plague Marines? With a kit that doesn't have a Champ/Icon Bearer? And is probably as mono-pose as every other Nurgle release?

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
I was looking at my DG codex last night and wondering if the icon bearer and champion were separate models. Interesting but expensive.

The bloat drone is about £10 more than I thought it would be.

It's actually cheaper than I expected as you'll have a couple of spare faceplates and weapons (easy bits sales/swaps)

@Albertorius: The Deathshroud would be even bigger and are maybe bigger than Angron. I would like a comparison pic to one of the square SM Dreadnoughts.

@All: thanks for the info.

The drones are just sold individual? Is there really one set with all the plates and stuff, just to make 1 drone out of it and falling short in a couple of pieces for a second one?
And where is the Bilogus Putrifier?

As for the "new" characters: Good for the people that want them, I will propably pass.

Can't make out the price on the crawler in USD, is that $65 or $85?

Yeah, 7 guys for $50 that doesn't include parts for icons/champion (so $100 if you want that) is a load of gak. Especially since it looks to be more monopose figures, not multi-part. I'm really finding it hard to be excited about Warhammer again...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
I was looking at my DG codex last night and wondering if the icon bearer and champion were separate models. Interesting but expensive.

The bloat drone is about £10 more than I thought it would be.

It's actually cheaper than I expected as you'll have a couple of spare faceplates and weapons (easy bits sales/swaps)

True, if you want multiples just mix and match bits with cheap Dark Imperium drones. The champion/icon clam packs seem odd when GW seemingly meant to cut down on SKU's. The amount of individual clam pack releases for Death Guard is mental.

Icon and champion pieces are available in the Plague Marine kit. See the plasma pistol and in the codex there's a hand held icon piece.

The consensus on B&C seems to be that there are parts for both champion and icon bearer in the multi part box and these are more specific monopose sculpts that are optional/in addition to the multipart box.

If so this is fantastic, and might mark the return to the era of having several cool monopose models per army on top of multipart kits. More options the better. Monopose can often be nicer than multipose as there's more joined up sculpting etc., while having the option to make some from the multipart box means armys need not have all the champions the same etc.

Steady with jumping to conclusions. These pics are no evidence either way. This MAY be a 7-model monopose box. But the info from a reliable source (Atia) was ten models and multipart. It may turn out to be wrong but the text in WD is not helping. We had people jumping to conclusion the Hauler and Crawler would be in one kit, despite the actual differences in their bits. We can now see these vehicles are not in the same kit. Just wait for more info about the PM kit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
The consensus on B&C seems to be that there are parts for both champion and icon bearer in the multi part box and these are more specific monopose sculpts that are optional/in addition to the multipart box.

If so this is fantastic, and might mark the return to the era of having several cool monopose models per army on top of multipart kits. More options the better. Monopose can often be nicer than multipose as there's more joined up sculpting etc., while having the option to make some from the multipart box means armys need not have all the champions the same etc.

This

New plastic Typhus is $40 USD, that's $7 less expensive than the resin FW Typhus on enormous resin display base...

What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
@Albertorius: The Deathshroud would be even bigger and are maybe bigger than Angron. I would like a comparison pic to one of the square SM Dreadnoughts.

Thanks for the heads up

To be quite honest, the more I look into it, the less I am enthusiastic about this release.
- They botched the points of Walkers and Deathshroud
- Death Guard in general suffers Skornegry
- They exploited people with the Plague Brethren
- The Plague Marines Box looks undermanned
- They will sell champion and bearer separately
- The models are a bit over-designed and you pay premium price for something that needs trimming. I am happy of my results now but is annoying.

I think I will use old models like predators and helbrutes/FWdread and ebay+bits, only buying non-used models in the future, in case. Very rarely use new kits.
I have lots of modeling to do because walkers and bearers are to be converted using mechanicus and necron bits to give a bio-mechanical vibe, so no big deal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

I am disappointed at this cash grab and actually it looks like that the new GW is indeed "smoke and mirrors".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how a basic social media presence will not only convince people you've 150% changed, but will defend your honour to the death at the slightest hint of criticism.

If we can still make different Champions/icon bearers via the Plague Marine box then a few unique, but unncessary standalone models won't be so bad. My concern is that if these models sell well, it's going to start becoming the norm that stuff like sergeants, champions and attachments will start being sold separately.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how a basic social media presence will not only convince people you've 150% changed, but will defend your honour to the death at the slightest hint of criticism.

There are people on this board that consider un-thinkable and sinful to criticize new art direction and models. "The new stuff is better, fullstop" is the answer.

Quote where GW said they are lowering prices, please.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how a basic social media presence will not only convince people you've 150% changed, but will defend your honour to the death at the slightest hint of criticism.

If we can still make different Champions/icon bearers via the Plague Marine box then a few unique, but unncessary standalone models won't be so bad. My concern is that if these models sell well, it's going to start becoming the norm that stuff like sergeants, champions and attachments will start being sold separately.

Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

 Prometheum5 wrote:


Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

BUT BUT BUT these are expensive and I want to pay '90s prices!

What's pissing me off the most is the lack of customization. The main selling point for Warhammer versus other game systems was that you used to be able to get a kit and build each guy slightly different; it wasn't any of this "Piece 34 only goes with piece 57, Arm 4 and 5, and legs 21 and 23" monopose stuff. Now, you can only build kits certain ways, you can't just cut out all the legs, torsos, arms and heads and then sort of "costume design" models to have certain things.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

"Gave you more flexibility".

Are your rose-tinted glasses actually blinders?

These existed because that was the extent of the technology and practicality at the time. Producing metal miniatures was -far- cheaper than making plastic miniatures, and plastic sets were very basic with few options (hell, most of them were the same model repeated over and over again, with the only variety being a separate sprue with shield designs). They don't need to go back to this because GW's plastic technology is incredible and their ability to make fully modular kits is the single most impressive thing about the company. They make fantastic miniatures with a variety of art styles and options that we should all be exceptionally happy about.

This has nothing to do with impulse buys or lowering the barrier to entry (how do AUD$60 character models lower the barrier to entry exactly?). Moving to this era you describe is a massive step backwards.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Quote where GW said they are lowering prices, please.

A number of years ago it was Jervis Johnson or Rick Priestly (im more sure it was JJ) who said the rise in plastic kits (during greatsword release) meant we would have cheapr units in plastic (compared to metal). Whilst its been around 10-15 years since, plastic prices have sky rocketed (current bog standard terminators as an example) and new kits are generally pretty hefty. The quality has increased but some things are crazily expensive comparitively (mortarion to magnus for example)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Woah there sir.

I'm pleased with attitude changes. GW's attitude to it's customer base prior to the changes was all out hostile, you could feel the disdain for the plebs leaking from the few comments that came out of the Citadel back prior to the change of chairman.

I'm pleased with the more open and engaging culture. They are listening and more importantly they are engaging at all when before GW had become isolated and removed from the community altogether. They are interacting with tournament organizers, they are opening the doors again.

I'm just not pleased with the prices and that's it, frankly.

My comment is not some wonderful opportunity to unleash all the old 'told you so' bollocks, we're not victims of some mustache-twirling diabolical ruse where GW pretends to be the girl we initially fell in love with only to reveal that actually she is still a she demon set on ruining us, this is just a mini making company, not Ron Swanson's ex-wife. Those other issues were issues and they've gotten considerably better and I'll put credit where credit is due. But I am pissed off with how expensive this new stuff is and it frankly puts pay to my starting a new GW army. They can decide if their sales model can sustain that, I can finish off my several other armies and then wait and see if the prices settle down again or if I start looking at other things to spend my cash on.

Wayniac wrote:
What's pissing me off the most is the lack of customization. The main selling point for Warhammer versus other game systems was that you used to be able to get a kit and build each guy slightly different; it wasn't any of this "Piece 34 only goes with piece 57, Arm 4 and 5, and legs 21 and 23" monopose stuff. Now, you can only build kits certain ways, you can't just cut out all the legs, torsos, arms and heads and then sort of "costume design" models to have certain things.

I agree with this 100%. Part of the appeal of this game for me is the modelling aspect. I was excited when the Death Guard were announced... until I realized that pretty much the entire army will be made up of mono posed dudes with the occasional weapon swap. I don't think we've gotten a new Death Guard model that wasn't, barring a weapon swap here and there, completely mono posed. This lack of customization was enough to kill the army for me. The same thing happened with the Primaris Marines. Want an Apothecary? One pose with two helmets. Want a Librarian? One pose with two helmets. Want a Chaplain? One pose, no options. Want a Gravis Captain? One pose, no options. I could see paying $35 each for a poseable kit with a variety of weapon options. $35 for a mono posed kit with no real options? No thanks.

I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

Seven models in the WD pic would seem to confirm that based on how they've shown other new products. I was hoping it would be a 10-man box so you could assemble ten troopers and then grab clampack/easy-build/DI champs and special weapon guys to make two good squads.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

Seven models in the WD pic would seem to confirm that based on how they've shown other new products. I was hoping it would be a 10-man box so you could assemble ten troopers and then grab clampack/easy-build/DI champs and special weapon guys to make two good squads.

I'm still holding out hope, I'm going to start looking through the codex to see how many leg poses I can see, hopefully that'll help?

£30 for a single drone? :(

zerosignal wrote:
£30 for a single drone? :(

I figured that would be the case, they're about the same size (Plastic wise) as the Helbrute and they come with a lot of options (Cosmetic included), and the Helbrute's 54$

Besides the price, the Plague Marines won't be released until Oct 14th? WTF is the holdup with this release? Are they trying to hamstirng independents who give bulk discounts? I just can't figure out what the point of dragging a release out for a month and a half is.

The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

So what all are people determined to get? I'm getting a single box of the new PM to play around with, but I'm on the fence on the rest. I like the blight crawler alright, I'm just not sure I like it that much more than the predator in looks or playstyle. The more I see the drones and haulers the less I like them, deathshroud look nice but I like the FW version better (size issues and all). I've also got terminators that work as blight lords I'm not in a hurry to discard.

I'll probably end up with one of each new characters as well eventually, but I'm not in a hurry to get most of them.

I expected there to be a unit that just grabbed me and I had to get a few of, but that's just not happening here.

I got Dark Imperium and Know no Fear, and given that the releases look pretty disappointing and way too pricey for me, I think that would be enough. I'll use them with the rest of my CSM and that will be it.

Was going to re-do my Death Guard for 30k in the new scale/look as I already have a chunk of models in the forge world torso range and was looking to get cool legs too. But since that's probably 100 models that would need to be replaced and going by the very likely 7 models in this box - not happening now at these price points.

I'll probably just wind up with one box of everything and have it as a 40k mostly army now and steal my 30k slightly plague marine models for use in 40k rather than the reverse.

Bit disappointed, 90% sure that that's a 7 man box we'll be getting, which is very short sighted.

Wayniac wrote:
The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

This should be expected though by this point.

Land Raider 74$ Repulsor 80$ Plague Tank 85$ All same size.

Magnus 130$ Morty 140$ and Magnus is bigger. Every new release is just going to be more expensive then the last.

New players are going to be hit the most, and will eventually have such a price barrier they cant get new ones in.

 Albertorius wrote:
I got Dark Imperium and Know no Fear, and given that the releases look pretty disappointing and way too pricey for me, I think that would be enough. I'll use them with the rest of my CSM and that will be it.

That's kinda what I'm feeling as well. I'll probably use a detachment, but I'm not sure my main army really counts as DG anymore.

Wayniac wrote:
The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

I see $65. Especially when you compare the other prices, seems to point to that.

As others have spotted, its really worrying the blighthaulers aren't shown, given that the plague marines on oct 14th are in the WD. Especially as they seemed to be one of the top units ruleswise. Also the fact that its the only model we've seen that's being held back doesn't lend itself to "2nd wave" theories.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how a basic social media presence will not only convince people you've 150% changed, but will defend your honour to the death at the slightest hint of criticism.

If we can still make different Champions/icon bearers via the Plague Marine box then a few unique, but unncessary standalone models won't be so bad. My concern is that if these models sell well, it's going to start becoming the norm that stuff like sergeants, champions and attachments will start being sold separately.

Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

I know how it worked 'back in the day' considering I spent £5 if I wanted to add a Multi-Melta to my Tactical Squad or £6 if I wanted to add a pair of Meltaguns to my Guardsmen.

Not £15 for the SERGEANT.

The thing as well as is, sprues back then just more limited in general. Space Marines had a missile launcher and a flamer, that was it. Fine. But these days we've got used to having the whole suite of options on the newer sprues... and now they're backpeddling on that. If people are willing to defend that, then I reckon they're just too far gone. I have less of an issue with things like alternate sculpts (Plague Brethren are a rip-off, but at least we're getting Plague Marines) so long as those options are still in the box. I mean hell, the absolutely ancient CSM box has FOUR Icons too.

 Arbitrator wrote:
The thing as well as is, sprues back then just more limited in general. Space Marines had a missile launcher and a flamer, that was it. Fine. But these days we've got used to having the whole suite of options on the newer sprues... and now they're backpeddling on that. If people are willing to defend that, then I reckon they're just too far gone. I have less of an issue with things like alternate sculpts (Plague Brethren are a rip-off, but at least we're getting Plague Marines) so long as those options are still in the box. I mean hell, the absolutely ancient CSM box has FOUR Icons too.

The WD promo image for the Plague Marines box CLEARLY shows a model with an icon AND a model with sergeant gear. Unless GW falsely advertised the contents of the box (which I don't think they ever did), you won't need to buy those options as extras unless you want to.

In the same vein, the price for the Plagecrawler is CLEARLY 40 GBP, which translates to 65 USD, and NOT 85.

I blame the photographers of these rumours for not doing proper pictures.

SilverAlien wrote:
So what all are people determined to get? I'm getting a single box of the new PM to play around with, but I'm on the fence on the rest. I like the blight crawler alright, I'm just not sure I like it that much more than the predator in looks or playstyle. The more I see the drones and haulers the less I like them, deathshroud look nice but I like the FW version better (size issues and all). I've also got terminators that work as blight lords I'm not in a hurry to discard.

I'll probably end up with one of each new characters as well eventually, but I'm not in a hurry to get most of them.

I expected there to be a unit that just grabbed me and I had to get a few of, but that's just not happening here.

I agree, and going back to your previous statement, I have gotten pretty disheartened with this release, which is really disappointing, because my hopes were so high. It's a perfect storm of small complaints about the release that is starting to turn it sour for me. Lacking rules here and there, limited options in the boxes, unnecessarily-dragged-out release schedule. I have been waiting with bated breath for months and I feel like I have Death Guard fatigue, so small complaints add up and probably seem larger than they are.

A 7 Plague Marine box is gonna be pretty dissapointing. At least the Icon Bearer and Sargeant are just alternative and more nice sculpts.
I like to run my Plague Marines in 5 man squads (I use the 3 easy to build ones + the 7 DI ones to run two 5 man squads), so a 7 plague marine box is gonna screw me over.

I may have to take a break from this site... People often call me opinionated and judgmental, but hot damn!

How many years have Chaos players been complaining about no new units and models?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
New plastic Typhus is $40 USD, that's $7 less expensive than the resin FW Typhus on enormous resin display base...

What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

You miss the part where he costs exactly the same as Ahriman, who's been out for a while now.

Watching this thread is like watching a Beast of Nurgle slowly turn into a Plague Drone

...And plague marines are reaching a point where FW is cheaper too.

Oh man, this is killing me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I may have to take a break from this site... People often call me opinionated and judgmental, but hot damn!

How many years have Chaos players been complaining about no new units and models?

Ok, picture this. Just picture this.

Your army goes with sub-par releases and odds and ends that don't form a coherent range for years. Close to a decade in fact.

And then, your army becomes a new faction. You lost half your army. The other half have sweeping wargear changes. And the new models are monopose pieces of gak which seem to be even less flexible than the previous release before it.

How happy are you about this?

Well, I don't like the "monoposability" of the DG release, but calling them "pieces of gak" is a bit of a strench.

But I can see the point about how this DG release is very good for people that didn't had a DG army, and totally screws people that do.
I this point I think people with DG armies could be better served with a generic nurgle army with the Chaos Space Marines Codex.

 Galas wrote:
Well, I don't like the "monoposability" of the DG release, but calling them "pieces of gak" is a bit of a strench.

But I can see the point about how this DG release is very good for people that didn't had a DG army, and totally screws people that do.
I this point I think people with DG armies could be better served with a generic nurgle army with the Chaos Space Marines Codex.

This could have been fine in 7th, but in 8th "just" the mark of nurgle is not longer enough to have a feel of nurgle army.
Heck, even in the very DG codex the chaos lord has no DR or higher toughness because they want to use the same datasheet.
Even if the prince of nurgle gets DR.

I don't know if they behave like this because of chapterhouse but is damn annoying.

The pricing and lack of customization are indeed disheartening. The PM box better have enough weapons to fully kit out one squad!

I still don't know what my army list is going to be like, but at this point I'll buy in anyway. Albeit through bits sellers and converting DI models.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
...And plague marines are reaching a point where FW is cheaper too.

Oh man, this is killing me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I may have to take a break from this site... People often call me opinionated and judgmental, but hot damn!

How many years have Chaos players been complaining about no new units and models?

Ok, picture this. Just picture this.

Your army goes with sub-par releases and odds and ends that don't form a coherent range for years. Close to a decade in fact.

And then, your army becomes a new faction. You lost half your army. The other half have sweeping wargear changes. And the new models are monopose pieces of gak which seem to be even less flexible than the previous release before it.

How happy are you about this?

I said it before, what flexibility have previous kits had? About as much as a Ninja Turtles Action Figure.

Death Guard was my first army. And I enjoy conversions more than painting, and I'm sure I've put more time into conversions than actual play time. But we have always known GW is out to sell models. New models. It's okay to be dissapointed, but don't be surprised.


Monopose are a huge improvement on glue fingers when the left hand doesent fit the right hand, doesent fit the bolter, cover gaps with shoulderpad, repeat another 15-30 times. I've converted models from metals. The truly creative will find ways to convert. Even with Dark Imperium, I've done some head swaps and weapon clippings so mine don't look exactly like everyone else's.

This is intentional to cut down on 3rd party bit sellers plain and simple. From a business perspective it makes as much sense as installing a security camera. And I love me some shop lifting.

Losing units might be a problem, if you're not Forging the Narrative! My formerly Death Guard Terminators, bikers, havocs, Oblits, and various Lords (in pre-heresy colors no less) are the Untainted Sons.

Every new codex and every edition has changed army composition. I can't count how many times I've had to snap off one weapon and replace it with another. Half primed bitz all over the place. Really the only thing I lost out on is combi weapons on my Champs. Saves me 2 points, now it's just a regular plasma gun. And truthfully Plague Marines have been absent in my lists since the start of 6th edition. We lost alot , that's for sure, but what we gained IMO makes up for it.

Sorry if the rant is off-topic.

The problem with monopose is that it gets weird when you want more models of the same type. Before when you had the torso, arm, legs and weapons separate you could give your units some degree of variety in poses with a minimum of modeling skill. A simple twist of the waist and nudge of the head made a world of difference.

The blightlords have set torsos and possibly set arms (haven't looked that deeply at the sprues) which means one in every 5 blightlord is going to have a clone somewhere. This is especially egregious as the Blightlords themselves look unique from each other, so similar (if not outright identical) models will stand out even more.

And I've converted in the era of metal too. Even back then, just having the arm being separate and interchangable gave you quite a number of possibilities. Another thing from the era of metal; even though some models were monopose, you at least got variations on the same model. There was three sculpts of the Chaos Sorceror that, for all intents and purposes at the time, were functionally identical and were made just to give some variety. Most clampacks these days don't even have variation, and the ones that do are very minor (like a wrist swap or helmet).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The problem with monopose is that it gets weird when you want more models of the same type. Before when you had the torso, arm, legs and weapons separate you could give your units some degree of variety in poses with a minimum of modeling skill. A simple twist of the waist and nudge of the head made a world of difference.

The blightlords have set torsos and possibly set arms (haven't looked that deeply at the sprues) which means one in every 5 blightlord is going to have a clone somewhere. This is especially egregious as the Blightlords themselves look unique from each other, so similar (if not outright identical) models will stand out even more.

And I've converted in the era of metal too. Even back then, just having the arm being separate and interchangable gave you quite a number of possibilities. Another thing from the era of metal; even though some models were monopose, you at least got variations on the same model. There was three sculpts of the Chaos Sorceror that, for all intents and purposes at the time, were functionally identical and were made just to give some variety. Most clampacks these days don't even have variation, and the ones that do are very minor (like a wrist swap or helmet).

yeah that seems to be the primary issue unless they are very stock standard models. like 200 cadians or normal tacticals.

it sucks to see the same pose characters running around.

 Kriswall wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
What's pissing me off the most is the lack of customization. The main selling point for Warhammer versus other game systems was that you used to be able to get a kit and build each guy slightly different; it wasn't any of this "Piece 34 only goes with piece 57, Arm 4 and 5, and legs 21 and 23" monopose stuff. Now, you can only build kits certain ways, you can't just cut out all the legs, torsos, arms and heads and then sort of "costume design" models to have certain things.

I agree with this 100%. Part of the appeal of this game for me is the modelling aspect. I was excited when the Death Guard were announced... until I realized that pretty much the entire army will be made up of mono posed dudes with the occasional weapon swap. I don't think we've gotten a new Death Guard model that wasn't, barring a weapon swap here and there, completely mono posed. This lack of customization was enough to kill the army for me. The same thing happened with the Primaris Marines. Want an Apothecary? One pose with two helmets. Want a Librarian? One pose with two helmets. Want a Chaplain? One pose, no options. Want a Gravis Captain? One pose, no options. I could see paying $35 each for a poseable kit with a variety of weapon options. $35 for a mono posed kit with no real options? No thanks.

In fact, this is why I am willing to spend more money and go about ordering FW conversion kits and buying Tartaros Terminators rather than buying the plastic Blightlords. This is why I will buy conversion kits and 30k Deathshroud rather than buy that box of 3.

This is why I will source bits on ebay and pay out my arse for them for a character conversion rather than buy a monopose character like the Plague Surgeon or Tallyman - who apparently have silly names like they're unique characters or something.

It's why my Blightspawn is a conversion consisting of a Mk III arm, a MK IV Flamer, a FW torso, CSM legs, a MK IV missile launcher backpack and a spare dryad bit from WFB to be a giant whopping fungal spore growth bursting out the backpack instead of buying a monopose fatman with a fireman's hose.

The primaris at least had some flexibility - not much but heads, and arms/weapons were at least different. You could get away with some conversion....but I'm seeing multiples of the exact same Plague Marine in the DG book, just with a different colour scheme. And that is worrying for a multipart plastic kit. The champions all look...identical. If the only way to get a variant torso or whatever is a £15 monopose clampack...ugh.

I'm very disappointed in this release. After the fantastic 30k plastics (apart from that god awful contemptor that everyone slated) they've gone so far backward it hurts. Like, we're reaching the point where our multipart kits are literally 2-3 components more than a snapfit £10 box for a model. And that's...awful.

Off topic from the monopose topic, but I just got my first decent look at Foul Blughtspawn this morning. Weird dog mask aside, I love the figure. Dude looks like some kind of creepy organ grinder, which got me thinking, that would be an awesome conversion for him, especially with his Nurgling as a monkey. Using the speaker from Tallyman's backpack and some modding to his left arm, it shouldn't be too hard to make him into an organ grinder.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

I said it before, what flexibility have previous kits had? About as much as a Ninja Turtles Action Figure.

Death Guard was my first army. And I enjoy conversions more than painting, and I'm sure I've put more time into conversions than actual play time.

I like how you answered your own question.

What flexibility have previous kits had? Conversions. Which these monopose, strange fixed torsos and legs or arms and shoulders fused to the body pieces of gak so far do NOT lend themselves to at all. Go on, convert a Deathshroud. Those kits are truly horrible and will involve far more chopping than it's worth. Even the joins are bizarre with shoulders being fused to the body and weapons joining seemingly in the middle of the upper part of the arm rather than as a flat join or ball joint. The Blightlords don't look to be much better either, with shoulderpads being merged to the arms and weapons fixed to those as well.

When you compare this to their OLDER kits...they're clearly inferior. And that's the kicker. It wouldn't take much for these to be amazing kits. It really wouldn't. But they've gone for this simplistic approach which REALLY doesn't lend itself to one of THE armies in the game that is meant to be a paradise for converters. I like the multipart Tactical squads. I like the multi-part characters. I like those because of all the extra stuff you get which you find yourself using later on, randomly so. An odd helmet from a completely unrelated kit or an arm from something completely different can change an entire model's dynamic.

But the current DG stuff and what we're seeing? Ugh. No. Not only are they oddly cut, strangely monopose and remarkably flat in a medium that is supposed to allow for more fancy poses and protruding bits...but they're also designed in such a way that you don't get spares...and what you do really doesn't work well with any other models in the range. Furthermore, any spare bits being brought forward don't work out too well either.

They've taken one of the most conversion centric armies and literally cut that aspect off and it's just...disappointing, especially at that price point. Compare the Plague Marines - who you can see a pattern of fixed torso, fixed legs throughout the codex and fixed poses - to the Mk IV or Mk III kits. And realise how much MORE you can do with that 30k stuff. It mixes better with the existing range, it mixes with FW kits and it has so many more options and bits. And I'm willing to bet the Plague Marine kits have some odd connections which will prevent shoulder pad mixing or backpack mixing.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


What flexibility have previous kits had? Conversions. Which these monopose, strange fixed torsos and legs or arms and shoulders fused to the body pieces of gak so far do NOT lend themselves to at all. Go on, convert a Deathshroud.

If converting means cutting off a hand at the wrist and gluing on a different hand cut off at the wrist, then yeah, those new kits might not lend themselves to converting in that sense.

I'll take good looking models that require more attention with a knife over awkward multi pose kits, thank you very much.

I'm glad the nurgle fluff talks about all the unique lords of contagion... Then gives them a single monopose model with no options in the codex.

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm glad the nurgle fluff talks about all the unique lords of contagion... Then gives them a single monopose model with no options in the codex.

I noticed that too - it was like they were talking about all sorts of different types of available characters, which they forgot to put in the book. They did the same thing with Malignant Plaguecasters. If you read the fluff before you turned to the army list, you'd probably have thought there were representations of all those special types of lord/caster.

I'd rather convert even a single-piece plastic miniature than a metal one with separate arms any day. These kits are plenty good for converting, mono-pose isn't crippling because it's not hard for a converting-minded player to change it up. Even if it were, that factor is easily offset (and then some) by the better sculpt quality and greater variety of pieces. The Blightlord terminators are head-and-shoulders above generic plastic terminators for converters and an all-around good kit. It's for non-converters that the mono pose and obvious model repeats is a bigger issue. To a converter that's no big deal because we were going to be hacking the models up and restructuring them anyways.

As for invalidating previous armies, I think players are justified in being irritated that their previously DG models are no longer DG. That just kinda sucks, and it would have been nice if stuff like Nurgle-marked bikers/havocs/helldrakes could be included in a DG detachment without disrupting legion rules even if they lacked the Death Guard legion keyword. That way DG players could at least not have to worry about running a separate detachment for those models.

Also, that Blightlord terminators don't have at least power fists is simply a bad move. The new kit should have had either the sword/axe as a new option alongside a power fist option, which would let players use their older terminators as the new ones. Yeah I know GW wants to sell the new ones, but I honestly believe they will lose more sales from former-DG players giving up than they will gain from preexisting-DG players updating. After all, a ton of players would/will buy new terminators regardless because they are new and look better than the old plastics.

Power fists are also the coolest weapon in 40k. I really dig them. Having Termis without an option for power fists is just cruel. My habit of "collecting" cool power fists might force me to buy the champion dude, even though I dislike the idea of a seperate, expensive unit champ.

With the "new release, higher price" stuff back (and a ton of clampack chars at high prices) I'll get only one multi-part Drone if any, as well as a PM kit and a single Plague Crawler instead of two or three. Mold the best bits, use those to convert more Marines and chars from other kits. Less tentacles AND cheaper AND unique. And if the "servo haulers turned into Renault FT light tanks" idea might get me models on the table before the tri-track daemon engines hit shelves.

PS: And Plague Marines two days AFTER my birthday? BOO!

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


Monopose are a huge improvement on glue fingers when the left hand doesent fit the right hand, doesent fit the bolter, cover gaps with shoulderpad, repeat another 15-30 times. I've converted models from metals. The truly creative will find ways to convert. Even with Dark Imperium, I've done some head swaps and weapon clippings so mine don't look exactly like everyone else's.

This is a huge part of it for me. I've played Space Marines for years, and have agonized over making sure to use all the coolest bits and posing them just so to make My Dudes, but I have built, painted, and played with more DG models in the past few months than I did in a couple of years of playing back around 4e. I can give people if they don't like the aesthetics of the new DG models, but you really can't argue that they are bad products. They are superbly made and are serving their purpose of getting people into the hobby and starting a new army. If I get brave in the future and want to expand my Plague Marines with some more non-stock guys, I have no doubt that I'll have an easier time cutting up a new PM box and mixing it with a MkIII box than I would have had with the old metal PM, even with their separate arms.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Power fists are also the coolest weapon in 40k. I really dig them. Having Termis without an option for power fists is just cruel. My habit of "collecting" cool power fists might force me to buy the champion dude, even though I dislike the idea of a seperate, expensive unit champ.

The plague champion from the Dark Imperium set has the same powerfist



and is pretty cheap on ebay

On the upside, people with older terminators can probably get away with using the power fists counts-as either swords or axes. That's good since the kit only comes with three axes (and why the heck take swords). Getting away with using a chainfist as a flail might be trickier though.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
Power fists are also the coolest weapon in 40k. I really dig them. Having Termis without an option for power fists is just cruel. My habit of "collecting" cool power fists might force me to buy the champion dude, even though I dislike the idea of a seperate, expensive unit champ.

The plague champion from the Dark Imperium set has the same powerfist



and is pretty cheap on ebay

If that's the same one I won't need the champ, because not only did I make a mould for that one already, I also converted the guy to have a *second* power fist (the one from the CSM kit with reposed fingers). And a face plate from the Blight Kings helmet with top knot instead of this mess of a "face" the model comes with.

I guess/hope one can count as a CCW/plague knife, because the loadout doesn't make a lot of sense But he looks like a real beast.

the heads on him and the plaguecaster (and sadly several of the independent characters coming up) are pretty terrible, and annoyingly small compared to a 'normal' head too

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm glad the nurgle fluff talks about all the unique lords of contagion... Then gives them a single monopose model with no options in the codex.

Ah not exactly, the book makes it clear the lord of contagion should have almost no options, the contagion mantle involves very specific equipment afterall.

What we are lacking are the other predefined mantles (lord of poxes was the one I remember), currently those are all being modeled by the generic lord, with different loadouts being presumably different mantles.

So the lord of contagion having few options is entirely consistent with the fluff presented, what is less consistent is having a generic lord rather Jan another 4-5 lords with semi fixed loadouts and unique abilities.

Is amazing how much that tank does right.
Is a tank, but remembers a slug.
Is an artillery piece, but the artillery is a mortar that calls the concept of a cauldron (short and wide), very Nurgle.
Is spiky and rusty, but not too much (and leaves space for the painter to express himself/herself freely).
The anti-personnel weapon (one of them at least) is an higher (relatively) rate of fire weapon that resemble the three-sided Nurgle symbol.
This is exactly how things should be made. Suggestive and thematic without rubbing it in your face.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Is amazing how much that tank does right.
Is a tank, but remembers a slug.
Is an artillery piece, but the artillery is a mortar that calls the concept of a cauldron (short and wide), very Nurgle.
Is spiky and rusty, but not too much (and leaves space for the painter to express himself/herself freely).
The anti-personnel weapon (one of them at least) is an higher (relatively) rate of fire weapon that resemble the three-sided Nurgle symbol.
This is exactly how things should be made. Suggestive and thematic without rubbing it in your face.

Agreed. When I first saw the image leaks of this tank I was a bit hesitant but now with the new images coming out, thematically it's awesome and fits so well with the army vibe. I'm planning to get a trio of these and deploy them in the nurgle symbol in the backfield to truly complete the fluff

Going to take a little bit of work to make sure they all look individual with the identical marks on the armour plates, but yeah I'm thinking 3 too. Brilliant kit

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Is amazing how much that tank does right.
Is a tank, but remembers a slug.
Is an artillery piece, but the artillery is a mortar that calls the concept of a cauldron (short and wide), very Nurgle.
Is spiky and rusty, but not too much (and leaves space for the painter to express himself/herself freely).
The anti-personnel weapon (one of them at least) is an higher (relatively) rate of fire weapon that resemble the three-sided Nurgle symbol.
This is exactly how things should be made. Suggestive and thematic without rubbing it in your face.

Agreed. When I first saw the image leaks of this tank I was a bit hesitant but now with the new images coming out, thematically it's awesome and fits so well with the army vibe. I'm planning to get a trio of these and deploy them in the nurgle symbol in the backfield to truly complete the fluff

I think I will wait. Too mad at GW at the moment, ebay later.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You don't get Havocs for the same reason we (Thousand Sons) don't get Havocs - all marines are plagued/dusted, so marine units that are not plagued/dusted can't be Death Guard/Thousand Sons. They could have made special Plague Havocs but decided to make a half dozen elite slot characters instead.

They chose not to give rules to things unless they have a specific miniature. They make Chaos Havocs, hell they once even made Plague Marine Havocs, but right now they don't, so no model/no rules. It's why there are no Death Guard Terminators with Chainfists, because they don't make Death Guard Terminator models with Chainfists. It's why the Codex has a Lord of Contagion and a non-Nurgle Chaos Lord. They make a Lord of Contageion. They make a Chaos Lord. They do not make a Death Guard Chaos Lord.
It's got nothing to do with fluff.

People seem to keep (intentionally?) missing that the Plague Marine havoc models only had special weapons, and not heavy weapons.



So if you had the original Plague Marine Havoc box set of 1 hero + 4 special weapon models, making them "legal" in 8th would only require splitting them between two squads of Plague marines. = 1 Squad with hero + 2 Specials + more grunts. Other Squad with the other 2 specials + more grunts & hero model. Not exactly "no model, no rules"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Via Plaguecaster - B&C forum

Damn. Those new boys are really big.

 Azazelx wrote:

People seem to keep (intentionally?) missing that the Plague Marine havoc models only had special weapons, and not heavy weapons.



So if you had the original Plague Marine Havoc box set of 1 hero + 4 special weapon models, making them "legal" in 8th would only require splitting them between two squads of Plague marines. = 1 Squad with hero + 2 Specials + more grunts. Other Squad with the other 2 specials + more grunts & hero model. Not exactly "no model, no rules"...

Funny thing, CSM Havocs can take 4 Heavy or 4 Special weapons. Explain why the Death Guard lost their 4 special weapon Plague Havoc squads again? No one's really bemoaning the lack of heavy weapons (though it takes the piss after like, 6 pieces of art featuring a plague marine carrying a heavy bolter somewhere in them).

People don't seem to understand the annoyance is specifically linked to the unit disappearing and not getting an equivalent replacement - because most Imperial players don't know what it's like. Literally all the SM Chapters got extra gubbins on top of Codex gubbins with a handful of later exceptions. We've literally had units stripped away and replaced with odd gimmicky things.

I wish we could take an extra plasma rifle or two, or better 2-3 more of the newly added plague weapons. It'd make PM a more attractive choice for me. It's just weird that the traditionally ranged unit now can be equipped far better for melee, not just having global access to power axes+1 for the unit but also unique options as well. Couldn't we also get a couple more guns per squad?

SilverAlien wrote:
I wish we could take an extra plasma rifle or two, or better 2-3 more of the newly added plague weapons. It'd make PM a more attractive choice for me. It's just weird that the traditionally ranged unit now can be equipped far better for melee, not just having global access to power axes+1 for the unit but also unique options as well. Couldn't we also get a couple more guns per squad?

This is odd too. The fact they are trying to force Plague Marines into jack of all trades with all the melee options - like, why not make a new Chosen equivalent unit with those options? It'd have gone down better with existing players and not invalidated one of their units completely. It's just an odd stance that we lost certain units (Chosen, Havocs) and didn't gain any sort of equivalent in return.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

People seem to keep (intentionally?) missing that the Plague Marine havoc models only had special weapons, and not heavy weapons.



So if you had the original Plague Marine Havoc box set of 1 hero + 4 special weapon models, making them "legal" in 8th would only require splitting them between two squads of Plague marines. = 1 Squad with hero + 2 Specials + more grunts. Other Squad with the other 2 specials + more grunts & hero model. Not exactly "no model, no rules"...

Funny thing, CSM Havocs can take 4 Heavy or 4 Special weapons. Explain why the Death Guard lost their 4 special weapon Plague Havoc squads again?

We never had a Death Guard codex, so we didn't "lose" anything. I was specifically addressing "no model, no rules". Anyone can still run everything they had in 8th as a separate detachment and the models sold as "Death Guard Havocs" are still 100% compatible with the new rules. The only reason to complain about that is if someone is unhappy with not being able to maximise the rules to their absolute advantage with keywords by combining everything that previously used within a CHAOS SPACE MARINE ARMY WITH THE MARK OF NURGLE ALL OVER IT and a DEATH GUARD ARMY WITH NEW AND DIFFERENT TOYS.

No one's really bemoaning the lack of heavy weapons (though it takes the piss after like, 6 pieces of art featuring a plague marine carrying a heavy bolter somewhere in them).

Some people are very much so doing that. Personally, I have most of the original Chaos Renegades with Heavy Weapons models that I purchased on release. I personally think things like the lack of T5 on the Lord, no Chosen, or the lack of Power Fists (and even Heavy Bolters, etc) are clownshoes, but I can see the rationale behind them (mostly). I'll decide how to rejig my army plans later on (DG on hold for the time being) but I'll most likely keep some smaller things within friendly games and run other models as CSM with the mark of Nurgle. Given how different the new models are stylistically and more importantly, size-wise from the various "originals" that I have (1989, 1990, 1993, 1995, 2002, FW) I may choose to run the old as a separate "Nurgle CSM" detachment separate from the new stuff anyway.

People don't seem to understand the annoyance is specifically linked to the unit disappearing and not getting an equivalent replacement - because most Imperial players don't know what it's like. Literally all the SM Chapters got extra gubbins on top of Codex gubbins with a handful of later exceptions. We've literally had units stripped away and replaced with odd gimmicky things.

Death Guard got new things. It's a new and separate army to CSM (which you can still run if you want to). I think it's a good thing that sub-armies (including Imperial, and especially Marine ones) are moving away from simply being <core army +++> though some people explicitly want all of the toys.

 Azazelx wrote:
I personally think things like the lack of T5 on the Lord, no Chosen, or the lack of Power Fists (and even Heavy Bolters, etc) are clownshoes, but I can see the rationale behind them (mostly).

Honestly I think the majority of people who are upset would be alright with the unit loss if it weren't for these things as well. It's one thing to lose units and another to lose units while ALSO dealing with silly crap like this. I can understand the frustration.

it's worth noting there is a difference between wanting all the units available to the main army and some unique ones, and wanting access to an equivalent variety of units. We currently don't have the same breadth of options, even if count every character as a full unit (unless I miss counted the CSM codex).

For me it mostly comes down to which units we lost vs gained. As someone who would prefer to play infantry heavy, the fact we lose infantry options from CSM codex in exchange for a variety of demon engines is kinda annoying to me. I'd have much rather had a jump pack equipped unit of destroyer analogues than more bloat drones, or have plague marines or terminators with more access to special weapons (or heavy for terminators) than rely on blight haulers to fill the same role.

what gets me, is we get an army-wide special rule that feels almost tailor-made for havocs/heavy weapon specialist squads...and we get nothing like that...I guess it still helps our helbrutes, and the 1-2 dudes in a plague marine squad or blightlords squad with a heavy weapon...but that's about it...the blight haulers have their own mini version of the rule so they don't need it...

I agree. Their Legion trait to ignore the movement penalty with heavy weapons is begging for Plague Marines to be equipped with Heavy Bolters and Autocannons.

I wish they had included a special unit that could take 0-4 special/heavy weapons at the cost of reduced options for everything else - so no melee options etc.

it would have filled in a nice ranged niche for the army and kept perfect line in with the fluff - troops slowly advancing forward continuously firing a steady salvo of fire.

Also would have kept many previous armies still valid to some degree - everyone who played DG before 8th will have a couple havoc units lying around.

Has there been any word on point cost for daemon prince's with wings? Doesn't look like they have a faq yet. Also flipping through the codex I noticed besides the blight haulers not having a release date, the only thing left to release with them is a box of pox walkers.

 Azazelx wrote:
People seem to keep (intentionally?) missing that the Plague Marine havoc models only had special weapons, and not heavy weapons.

I know full well what they had and didn't have. I own two of those squads.

 Azazelx wrote:
So if you had the original Plague Marine Havoc box set of 1 hero + 4 special weapon models, making them "legal" in 8th would only require splitting them between two squads of Plague marines. = 1 Squad with hero + 2 Specials + more grunts. Other Squad with the other 2 specials + more grunts & hero model. Not exactly "no model, no rules"...

No, it is exactly "no model = no rule". There are no Death Guard Havoc models, and as such they do not have rules, just like there's no Death Guard Raptor box, or Death Guard Chaos Lord box, or Death Guard Possessed box, this is why these units either don't exist or don't have rules.

Are there any pictures of the Plague Crawler from the Back? Looks like a spikey door-stop to me. hoping the detail on the back will change my mind.

mikesorensonxx wrote:
Has there been any word on point cost for daemon prince's with wings? Doesn't look like they have a faq yet. Also flipping through the codex I noticed besides the blight haulers not having a release date, the only thing left to release with them is a box of pox walkers.

No new Poxwalkers. You will have to make do with those found in the starters and the easy to build boxed sets.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
People seem to keep (intentionally?) missing that the Plague Marine havoc models only had special weapons, and not heavy weapons.

I know full well what they had and didn't have. I own two of those squads.

 Azazelx wrote:
So if you had the original Plague Marine Havoc box set of 1 hero + 4 special weapon models, making them "legal" in 8th would only require splitting them between two squads of Plague marines. = 1 Squad with hero + 2 Specials + more grunts. Other Squad with the other 2 specials + more grunts & hero model. Not exactly "no model, no rules"...

No, it is exactly "no model = no rule". There are no Death Guard Havoc models, and as such they do not have rules, just like there's no Death Guard Raptor box, or Death Guard Chaos Lord box, or Death Guard Possessed box, this is why these units either don't exist or don't have rules.

So you're unable to use Death Guard models armed with Meltaguns or Plasma Guns, or you're being deliberately childish/obtuse and stamping your virtual feet saying NO! THESE are HAVOCS!!!!! ?

Because the Death Guard Codex in front of me lists both Plasma Guns and Meltaguns as options for Plaguemarines, so it can't be the former, so it must be the latter...


...because when it comes down to it, the models are simply a bunch of Plague Marines with special weapons, so you're either bitching about GW because it's your hobby (it happens a lot, it's kinda your schtick here), or there's another possible answer. Perhaps you're genuinely unable to easily adapt to simple changes like this, which might be a legitimate psychological condition (I don't know you personally, so I can't judge from afar whether you're trolling, being childish, or genuinely find it difficult to cope with/stressful/anger inducing).

 Azazelx wrote:

...because when it comes down to it, the models are simply a bunch of Plague Marines with special weapons, so you're either bitching about GW because it's your hobby (it happens a lot, it's kinda your schtick here), or there's another possible answer. Perhaps you're genuinely unable to easily adapt to simple changes like this, which might be a legitimate psychological condition (I don't know you personally, so I can't judge from afar whether you're trolling, being childish, or genuinely find it difficult to cope with/stressful/anger inducing).

Thank you for this. GW threads in general elicit so much fabricated drama it's nice to see people called out over it.

 Mousemuffins wrote:
Are there any pictures of the Plague Crawler from the Back? Looks like a spikey door-stop to me. hoping the detail on the back will change my mind.

Not yet :( Maybe in the new WD, there is a video on the previous page

But but but... Prices in Australia are high!

Back on topic:
We have seen all releases, right? So no chance for a new GuO or that cool beast of nurgle from the popular on this thread piece of art? Or we do have hope for future releases...
Out of all the nurgle stuff I was anticipating the "Horse" the most..

They were not considered to be part of a single release. Death Guard first, Nurgle Daemons to follow this (or early next) year and we had rumors about an AoS 'Nurgle Mortals' (Chaos Warriors basically) release next year, too. More is coming, but not now.

Ah, good, thanks!

 Azazelx wrote:
So you're unable to use Death Guard models armed with Meltaguns or Plasma Guns, or you're being deliberately childish/obtuse and stamping your virtual feet saying NO! THESE are HAVOCS!!!!! ?

You're approaching this from reverse and basically missing the point.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Havocs, therefore they do not get rules. Whether Death Guard Havocs used to be armed with Meltaguns/Plasma Guns, any heavy weapons, or giant foam bats doesn't make any difference. There is no official Havoc kit, so there are no rules.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Possessed, therefore there are no rules for Death Guard Possessed. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Possessed, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord, therefore there are no rules for a Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Terminator Lord, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not make Death Guard Terminators with Power Fists or Chainfists, therefore that unit does not get rules for that. They get rules for exactly what's in the box.

And so on, and so forth.

No mode. No rule.

Is this getting through yet?

I just want to point out that, being a Death Guard player for many years, and a chaos fanatic, this whole release has me squeing with joy. Who cares if the models are expensive? It's always been an expensive hobby. The look great, and cool rules to boot.

The only thing I'm not satisfied with is, that they're taking so long to release them - I have money to burn dammit! Give me plastic crack!

Spreading out the releases is their way of getting people to come back on a weekly basis.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
I just want to point out that, being a Death Guard player for many years, and a chaos fanatic, this whole release has me squeing with joy. Who cares if the models are expensive? It's always been an expensive hobby. The look great, and cool rules to boot.

The only thing I'm not satisfied with is, that they're taking so long to release them - I have money to burn dammit! Give me plastic crack!

I care the models are expensive, because I dropped a few hundred quid on a Vectorium when Traitor Legions was released, and three-quarters of my army is now destined for the shelf.

I'm done with GW for a while. I have a ton of stuff to build and paint, and will get the codices for my remaining factions, but they're not getting any of my cash for some time.

I'm still bitter about the fact traitor legion allowed me to field a force that felt, to me, more DG than what we have now.

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm still bitter about the fact traitor legion allowed me to field a force that felt, to me, more DG than what we have now.

To be completely honest, in 3rd the Death guard was something like this sans zombies and drones. Termies were more classic and the Mark of nurgle was a +1 to T (that did not stack with the bike, IIRC).
Plague Marines used to have the +1 attack fighting with the bolter as with a pistol, in fact the combat style was close to the Space Wolves when you needed a brain to play them, if it ever happened. Short distance ranged engagement plus charges/counter charges.
You had few options and any rhino more than the first 2 was a fast attack

So on this regard the codex is more faithful to the DG that I came to know first. Nonetheless, you could have teams with 4 plasma/melta/flamers, chosen, termies with fists, theterminator lord had the same T of the plagues (consistency and immersion) etc.

Later editions added bikes and havocs that were less "true" death guard.
This of course does not justify the fact that GW essentially messed over people that build cool bikes and relentless havocs. That's not fair. People are not mad because of a series of models they built 5 editions ago, but this is the tail of 7th. That's a terrible dick move.

I am mad that the normal plagues cannot get a bolt pistol with the melee weapons, and that the Champion cannot have a combi-weapon (perfect with the Legion tactic, but that's the outstanding design team, always in communication with the studio).

Also the fact that the lord is T4 is stupid over-correcting, most people would use the normal lord and paint it green, or convert from the DI set.
Heck, it would be enough to give some relic or other option tailored for the lord of contagion (that is kinda useful, but boring because of the reasons H.B.M.C. listed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
I just want to point out that, being a Death Guard player for many years, and a chaos fanatic, this whole release has me squeing with joy. Who cares if the models are expensive? It's always been an expensive hobby. The look great, and cool rules to boot.

The only thing I'm not satisfied with is, that they're taking so long to release them - I have money to burn dammit! Give me plastic crack!

You talk like a TV advertisement.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
Who cares if the models are expensive?

Plenty of people.

Duh!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
So you're unable to use Death Guard models armed with Meltaguns or Plasma Guns, or you're being deliberately childish/obtuse and stamping your virtual feet saying NO! THESE are HAVOCS!!!!! ?

You're approaching this from reverse and basically missing the point.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Havocs, therefore they do not get rules. Whether Death Guard Havocs used to be armed with Meltaguns/Plasma Guns, any heavy weapons, or giant foam bats doesn't make any difference. There is no official Havoc kit, so there are no rules.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Possessed, therefore there are no rules for Death Guard Possessed. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Possessed, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord, therefore there are no rules for a Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Terminator Lord, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not make Death Guard Terminators with Power Fists or Chainfists, therefore that unit does not get rules for that. They get rules for exactly what's in the box.

And so on, and so forth.

No mode. No rule.

Is this getting through yet?

H, you're acting like GW came to your house and smashed your green Havocs because they can't be 'Death Guard'. There are perfectly valid ways to continue using all the models you have. Are they perfect? No, of course not. Are they the end of the world? Even less so. Run them as a CSM detachment and take some complementary Legion tactic, or run them Counts As for PM weapons. Put a little effort in.

 puma713 wrote:
Besides the price, the Plague Marines won't be released until Oct 14th? WTF is the holdup with this release? Are they trying to hamstirng independents who give bulk discounts? I just can't figure out what the point of dragging a release out for a month and a half is.

The entire release together is like $600 USD in models if you're just getting one each kit...

Honestly I'm almost at the end of the rope budget wise. I don't know that i can afford a drone even though I would really like a fleshmower version.

If they released all this stuff at once I could have never justified the single day expense. Stretched out over two months? I can make that work.... barely. And I have a good job, no kids, dual income household. Not everyone is so lucky as me.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm still bitter about the fact traitor legion allowed me to field a force that felt, to me, more DG than what we have now.

To be completely honest, in 3rd the Death guard was something like this sans zombies and drones. Termies were more classic and the Mark of nurgle was a +1 to T (that did not stack with the bike, IIRC).
Plague Marines used to have the +1 attack fighting with the bolter as with a pistol, in fact the combat style was close to the Space Wolves when you needed a brain to play them, if it ever happened. Short distance ranged engagement plus charges/counter charges.
You had few options and any rhino more than the first 2 was a fast attack

So on this regard the codex is more faithful to the DG that I came to know first. Nonetheless, you could have teams with 4 plasma/melta/flamers, chosen, termies with fists, theterminator lord had the same T of the plagues (consistency and immersion) etc.

Later editions added bikes and havocs that were less "true" death guard.
This of course does not justify the fact that GW essentially messed over people that build cool bikes and relentless havocs. That's not fair. People are not mad because of a series of models they built 5 editions ago, but this is the tail of 7th. That's a terrible dick move.

A lot of my knowledge of death guard as a thing distinct from just a nurgle CSM army came from the Horus Hersey books, which didn't really use bikes, but did indicate they used things like destroyer and heavy weapon squads, which I always had a few of and was eager to expand upon when traitor legions hit. So that's probably why. Plus I always stayed away from demon engines before and most of our release is demon engines.

 ZoBo wrote:
what gets me, is we get an army-wide special rule that feels almost tailor-made for havocs/heavy weapon specialist squads...and we get nothing like that...I guess it still helps our helbrutes, and the 1-2 dudes in a plague marine squad or blightlords squad with a heavy weapon...but that's about it...the blight haulers have their own mini version of the rule so they don't need it...

And Plagueburst Crawlers, who would greatly benefit from it (and you'd think would have it based on their fluff of how ponderous they are) don't have it. So, if your Plagueburst Crawler moves, they're hitting on 5's.

 puma713 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
what gets me, is we get an army-wide special rule that feels almost tailor-made for havocs/heavy weapon specialist squads...and we get nothing like that...I guess it still helps our helbrutes, and the 1-2 dudes in a plague marine squad or blightlords squad with a heavy weapon...but that's about it...the blight haulers have their own mini version of the rule so they don't need it...

And Plagueburst Crawlers, who would greatly benefit from it (and you'd think would have it based on their fluff of how ponderous they are) don't have it. So, if your Plagueburst Crawler moves, they're hitting on 5's.

Could it just be bad editing? Or they were torn between BS3+ and no "legion tactic" and BS4+ and "legion tactic" and got the things mixed up? Just wondering.
There is something in the release that looks rushed. Also, one of the main factions of a campaign released after it, IIRC.

In the "tactics" people pointed out (repetita iuvant) the state of "Skornergy" of some parts of the faction. Like Typhus and Walkers (movement/positioning issue, point cost and sunk cost fallacy).
What pointed out by you is another aspect of the same thing, apparently.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
So you're unable to use Death Guard models armed with Meltaguns or Plasma Guns, or you're being deliberately childish/obtuse and stamping your virtual feet saying NO! THESE are HAVOCS!!!!! ?

You're approaching this from reverse and basically missing the point.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Havocs, therefore they do not get rules. Whether Death Guard Havocs used to be armed with Meltaguns/Plasma Guns, any heavy weapons, or giant foam bats doesn't make any difference. There is no official Havoc kit, so there are no rules.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Possessed, therefore there are no rules for Death Guard Possessed. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Possessed, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not produce a boxed set called Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord, therefore there are no rules for a Death Guard Chaos Terminator Lord. The Death Guard Codex just gets regular Terminator Lord, because that's all GW makes.

GW do not make Death Guard Terminators with Power Fists or Chainfists, therefore that unit does not get rules for that. They get rules for exactly what's in the box.

And so on, and so forth.

No mode. No rule.

Is this getting through yet?

H, you're acting like GW came to your house and smashed your green Havocs because they can't be 'Death Guard'. There are perfectly valid ways to continue using all the models you have. Are they perfect? No, of course not. Are they the end of the world? Even less so. Run them as a CSM detachment and take some complementary Legion tactic, or run them Counts As for PM weapons. Put a little effort in.

You're missing HBMC's whole point. He's not saying he can't use those particular models or any previous models like nurgle havocs and terminators with powerfists. Everybody knows you can run a separate CSM detachment to include all your old stuff, even if you have to pull from the index. People are mad because they can't include them in a Deathguard detachment and get all the Deathguard rules. HBMC's point to them is that if they don't make a particular kit, it won't be in the codex (Not just Deathguard, every army is getting this treatment in 8th so you might as well get used to it) In GW's defense, technically there has never been a deathguard codex. Just because something has the mark of nurgle doesn't make it Deathguard

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

There is something in the release that looks rushed.

I agree with this. Something feels like it was pushed out half-baked. It feels like it's missing rules for different mantles of Lords and Casters, it feels like somethings may have been overlooked (maybe Lords and Sorcs are supposed to be T5 and have DR?) and perhaps other things missing? I'm not sure, but I get that feeling too.

There have been rules for a DG army however. Maybe not a codex, but a DG army did existing last edition. Not nurgle marked, official DG. So I find the idea DG never had access to these units a bit disingenuous.

As for the codex being rushed, I get the feeling it is but in a different way than most mean. Just as I expect more primaris marines and likely a primaris codex towards the end of the codex rush, I suspect DG will be getting additional units in the somewhat distant future, maybe a year or two. Most of them will be additional variations on lords or other character type units, but we might see a few other things.

We got the bare minimum for a stand alone army, and will get filled out once all the other releases are done.

The prices for this week's releases have leaked:


Death Guard – Scribbus Wretch $25


Death Guard – Nauseous Rotbone $25


Death Guard – Plagueburst Crawler $65


Death Guard – Foetid Bloat-Drone $50

I'm glad the PBC is not more than $65, but $50 seems a bit steep for the bloat drone. Good thing I already have three of them.

 BrookM wrote:

mikesorensonxx wrote:
Has there been any word on point cost for daemon prince's with wings? Doesn't look like they have a faq yet. Also flipping through the codex I noticed besides the blight haulers not having a release date, the only thing left to release with them is a box of pox walkers.

No new Poxwalkers. You will have to make do with those found in the starters and the easy to build boxed sets.

To be fair that totals 16 unique sculpts, I cannot recall many GW single piece/monopose troop types that have that much variety.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

mikesorensonxx wrote:
Has there been any word on point cost for daemon prince's with wings? Doesn't look like they have a faq yet. Also flipping through the codex I noticed besides the blight haulers not having a release date, the only thing left to release with them is a box of pox walkers.

No new Poxwalkers. You will have to make do with those found in the starters and the easy to build boxed sets.

To be fair that totals 16 unique sculpts, I cannot recall many GW single piece/monopose troop types that have that much variety.

Indeed, 16 unique and characterful sculpts at that!

Agreed on that BrookM, and with a little cutting and conversion work you can differentiate them enough. Easy to paint up as well.

Did we get a proper plague marine kit yet, or are they literally saving that for last? It's weird the unit in the CSM book comes st the tail end of the DG release.

SilverAlien wrote:
Did we get a proper plague marine kit yet, or are they literally saving that for last? It's weird the unit in the CSM book comes st the tail end of the DG release.

It is not weird, that is marketing. You are forced to return every week to GW, too see if they are available yet. Maybe you order in the mean time some of their other products (Plague Brethren!). As they are the core unit of DG, everybody going for DG will look out for them, so it makes sense for GW to publish them last. If not people would buy them and won´t recognize the following publications, like now.
Still a d#ck move.

I also wait for them and will order if all I want is available. I expect the hauler will have the same price tag as the drone, so I pass on them. I already downgraded my initial purchase list to 1 box PM, Typhus, Tallyman, Surgeon, Putrifier and maybe a drone and the Bligthspawn, maybe not. With DI, First Strike and additional 50 walkers, thats enough for me to create a small fluffy army.
As most here, I have an already playable 40k force, so I don´t need to get the full DG treatment.

As for the missing sorcerers and lords, get ready for some tasty supplements in the future. It would fit the bill.

Has anyone heard anything about an errata? The other Codexes received their Errata quite quickly. I wonder if they are waiting because not all the models are released?

Qlanth wrote:
Has anyone heard anything about an errata? The other Codexes received their Errata quite quickly. I wonder if they are waiting because not all the models are released?

Yeah, bit perturbed by the fact that a week's passed without so much as a peep. The Daemon Prince with Wings issue and possibly even power fists being errata'd in would be nice. Plus some order clarifications of the myriad auras etc....

SilverAlien wrote:
Did we get a proper plague marine kit yet, or are they literally saving that for last? It's weird the unit in the CSM book comes st the tail end of the DG release.

Oct 14th. And not sure yet if the box is 10 models or 7 models.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
I just want to point out that, being a Death Guard player for many years, and a chaos fanatic, this whole release has me squeing with joy. Who cares if the models are expensive? It's always been an expensive hobby. The look great, and cool rules to boot.

The only thing I'm not satisfied with is, that they're taking so long to release them - I have money to burn dammit! Give me plastic crack!

You talk like a TV advertisement.

That's because I haven't been this excited for a 40k release, in like... Forever. For the first time, the DG gets a proper codex, with fluffy units and rules, that actually fits the background, instead of using Nurgle bikers (T6), Nurgle Havocs (T5) and Nurgle Obliterators (T5) - not because people thought it would be cool and fluffy, but because it was by far the best mark in the game. I'm glad to see Nurgle bikes and Nurgle havocs are gone - I can't recall a single piece of artwork or fluff ever depicting nurgle bikers. To me, they've always just been about using the best possible mark to gain an advantage. People have been wanting the Chaos legions to be unique and have their own unique rules for a long time - to me, it makes good sense that some units are not available to certain legions.

Just like lumbering Plague Marines are unlikely to use bikes (don't think they ever have, not during the heresy either), Rubric Marines wouldn't have jump troops either, etc. etc.

zerosignal wrote:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
I just want to point out that, being a Death Guard player for many years, and a chaos fanatic, this whole release has me squeing with joy. Who cares if the models are expensive? It's always been an expensive hobby. The look great, and cool rules to boot.

The only thing I'm not satisfied with is, that they're taking so long to release them - I have money to burn dammit! Give me plastic crack!

I care the models are expensive, because I dropped a few hundred quid on a Vectorium when Traitor Legions was released, and three-quarters of my army is now destined for the shelf.

I'm done with GW for a while. I have a ton of stuff to build and paint, and will get the codices for my remaining factions, but they're not getting any of my cash for some time.

That sucks - however, I don't understand why anyone would blow so much money on an army, when we've known that 8th was just around the corner for a long time? Besides, they're not destined for the shelf - you can very much still use them, you just won't get the DG tactics. Just use them in a separate detachment. I can understand why you're pissed about losing the T6 advantage, but that's the way it's always been with new releases - rules get changed, points are adjusted, etc - your units are absolutely usable - they're just not the way they used to be.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
To me, they've always just been about using the best possible mark to gain an advantage.

It's as if that the 6th edition codex was garbage excluded a demon-pigeon that got nerfed later and people tried everything that was at least viable. But I could be wrong.
And then in another "patch" book of such edition, (the 4th or something) the designers actually encouraged such behaviour writing down a full legion list with the aforementioned viable units.

Now, is true that if the DG gets a codex it should play and feel different and perhaps a turning point in design always has its victims. Probably the issue is the Mark of Nurgle. If it was the usual +1 T people would just be happy to put in the army a second detachment with Warptime sorcerer and Havocs and call it a day. As is, just does not "feel" right.
You call "Nurgle" the units but theyt are not "Nurgle-y".

Also, is nice "appeal to art", but you can find in the second 3rd edition codex a plague "havoc" with an heavy bolter (albeit illegal even in 3rd).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:

That sucks - however, I don't understand why anyone would blow so much money on an army, when we've known that 8th was just around the corner for a long time?

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?
6th edition CSM codex was valid in 7th.
That was actually the main problem CSM had in 7th, some part of the book were set in stone and crippled the army no matter what.
I don't want to make accusations but this kind of answer seems disingenuous, at best.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?

Well, to be honest, thats a wise thing to do. I don't want to be pedantic, etc... but is like buying a World of Warcraft Expansion when that expansion has to all practical levels ended and you are 3-5 months apart from the new expansion. Thats the reason why I never buy any model that I don't like. Never had I buy a model because "I need this for my army". No! Thats the recipe fo disaster. Buy only models that you like even if you are only gonna put them painted into a cavinet.

 Galas wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?

Well, to be honest, thats a wise thing to do. I don't want to be pedantic, etc... but is like buying a World of Warcraft Expansion when that expansion has to all practical levels ended and you are 3-5 months apart from the new expansion. Thats the reason why I never buy any model that I don't like. Never had I buy a model because "I need this for my army". No! Thats the recipe fo disaster. Buy only models that you like even if you are only gonna put them painted into a cavinet.

yeah but where do we put the limit at this?
What if next Guard codex removes leman russes?
What if next space marine codex removes (reductio ad absurdum) removes all the space marines?

I am sorry this is not a good way to write rules if you see your customers as affectionate hobbyists and not as suckers to exploit.

Oh yeah I totally agree with that. It sucks that they are doing this kind of thing and is a legitimate critizism agains't them.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?

Well, to be honest, thats a wise thing to do. I don't want to be pedantic, etc... but is like buying a World of Warcraft Expansion when that expansion has to all practical levels ended and you are 3-5 months apart from the new expansion. Thats the reason why I never buy any model that I don't like. Never had I buy a model because "I need this for my army". No! Thats the recipe fo disaster. Buy only models that you like even if you are only gonna put them painted into a cavinet.

yeah but where do we put the limit at this?
What if next Guard codex removes leman russes?
What if next space marine codex removes (reductio ad absurdum) removes all the space marines?

I am sorry this is not a good way to write rules if you see your customers as affectionate hobbyists and not as suckers to exploit.

Wait what did they remove?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?

Well, to be honest, thats a wise thing to do. I don't want to be pedantic, etc... but is like buying a World of Warcraft Expansion when that expansion has to all practical levels ended and you are 3-5 months apart from the new expansion. Thats the reason why I never buy any model that I don't like. Never had I buy a model because "I need this for my army". No! Thats the recipe fo disaster. Buy only models that you like even if you are only gonna put them painted into a cavinet.

yeah but where do we put the limit at this?
What if next Guard codex removes leman russes?
What if next space marine codex removes (reductio ad absurdum) removes all the space marines?

I am sorry this is not a good way to write rules if you see your customers as affectionate hobbyists and not as suckers to exploit.

NOTHING has been removed. Nothing. You can play with all your miniatures, just like you used to. They just won't have the rules you would like. I can see why you are frustrated about this, but this has been the case with every new codex or rulebook since 2ed took over from Rogue Trader. (Yep, I'm that old).

 Desubot wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

So... we should ignore GW products when a new edition is around the corner?

Well, to be honest, thats a wise thing to do. I don't want to be pedantic, etc... but is like buying a World of Warcraft Expansion when that expansion has to all practical levels ended and you are 3-5 months apart from the new expansion. Thats the reason why I never buy any model that I don't like. Never had I buy a model because "I need this for my army". No! Thats the recipe fo disaster. Buy only models that you like even if you are only gonna put them painted into a cavinet.

yeah but where do we put the limit at this?
What if next Guard codex removes leman russes?
What if next space marine codex removes (reductio ad absurdum) removes all the space marines?

I am sorry this is not a good way to write rules if you see your customers as affectionate hobbyists and not as suckers to exploit.

Wait what did they remove?

If your question is in regard of the Guard or the Space marines, those were hypothetical, extreme scenarios made up to prove a point.
In regard of the death guard, is the shift from what is official "Death Guard" in Traitor Legions (7th) and the current codex.
This with the caveat that it could be for the greater good (long term "investment" in an army that feels really different).

There are only two problems:
- The design and point costs still has problems, albeit some concept is interesting
- The people that spent money and time on a 7th edition DG still have usable models, but these do not feel Death guard at all because the current Mark of Nurgle has no direct mechanical advantages, at least in comparison with 3rd-7th.

The second point is the most contested one, I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


NOTHING has been removed. Nothing. You can play with all your miniatures, just like you used to. They just won't have the rules you would like. I can see why you are frustrated about this, but this has been the case with every new codex or rulebook since 2ed took over from Rogue Trader. (Yep, I'm that old).

See my example above. Where do we set the limit then? Where is still acceptable?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:
To me, they've always just been about using the best possible mark to gain an advantage.

It's as if that the 6th edition codex was garbage excluded a demon-pigeon that got nerfed later and people tried everything that was at least viable. But I could be wrong.
And then in another "patch" book of such edition, (the 4th or something) the designers actually encouraged such behaviour writing down a full legion list with the aforementioned viable units.

Now, is true that if the DG gets a codex it should play and feel different and perhaps a turning point in design always has its victims. Probably the issue is the Mark of Nurgle. If it was the usual +1 T people would just be happy to put in the army a second detachment with Warptime sorcerer and Havocs and call it a day. As is, just does not "feel" right.
You call "Nurgle" the units but theyt are not "Nurgle-y".

Also, is nice "appeal to art", but you can find in the second 3rd edition codex a plague "havoc" with an heavy bolter (albeit illegal even in 3rd).

That's one single example - admittedly I was out of the game for 3rd and 4th ed, I discovered girls were a thing. I still challenge you to find artwork or fluff about nurgle bikers.

The 6th ed. codex wasn't garbage at all - the other codexes were subject to horrible power creep. I've won lots of games, using my old fluffy DG army with 6.th ed codex in my local gaming club, but we're not power gamers - we play thematic lists, and use an army selection system to avoid meeting 5 knights or Eldar Jetbike spam. If thats your local meta, I'm afraid you'll still struggle with our new codex. To be honest, I'm bored to death of the few chaos armies I've seen being heldrakes, juggerlord with spawns, and Nurgle obliterator/havoc spam. I honestly think it's nice to see something being done about that.

Death Guard has never been about heavy weapons or fast attack - they're a slow, lumbering, unstoppable horde of Plague Marines, with special weapons, supported by terminators and walkers. Every piece of fluff supports this. Now they have rules that actually supports this, without having to resort to transports, etc, and I think that's great. They seem like a viable, well balanced army. If you want to use bikes, raptors, forge fiends, etc, that's cool - just take them in a separate detachment.

Nurgle marked marines are NOT DG - they are nurgle marked marines. DG is chosen by Nurgle, tainted by the destroyer virus, and should be more than some random renegade who decides that snot and pus is awesome.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


Death Guard has never been about heavy weapons or fast attack - they're a slow, lumbering, unstoppable horde of Plague Marines, with special weapons, supported by terminators and walkers. Every piece of fluff supports this. Now they have rules that actually supports this, without having to resort to transports, etc, and I think that's great. They seem like a viable, well balanced army. If you want to use bikes, raptors, forge fiends, etc, that's cool - just take them in a separate detachment.

I agree. I stated above that this is the DG I came to know in 3rd.
But then why write the 7th edition codex that expanded and fueled the DG of 6th edition?
Above you accuse me to be upset because "I don't like the rules" but you are arbitrarily supporting this decision for the same reasons. What about the gamers that started in 6th, had no idea about the slow death guard and build armies using the 6th and 7th edition books in good faith?
You are essentially saying that you don't give a crap because of fluff you arbitrarily decided is the best. Fluff I like, mind it.
But this is not the fluff those people found, at least not in emphasis, in the 6th-7th edition books.
The time and money of these people deserve respect.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:

The 6th ed. codex wasn't garbage at all - the other codexes were subject to horrible power creep.

I struggle to believe this is an honest statement.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I agree. I stated above that this is the DG I came to know in 3rd.
But then why write the 7th edition codex that expanded and fueled the DG of 6th edition?
Above you accuse me to be upset because "I don't like the rules" but you are arbitrarily supporting this decision for the same reasons. What about the gamers that started in 6th, had no idea about the slow death guard and build armies using the 6th and 7th edition books in good faith?

You mean age of turn and burn kirby?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


See my example above. Where do we set the limit then? Where is still acceptable?

That's just it - WE don't set the limit. GW does. They write rules they hope will appeal to as many as possible, and therefore sell shiny new toys. They don't intentionally want to piss off customers like you and me, but if some get's pissed off, so be it. We can either choose to buy the codex/models, or don't. That's the only power we have. If you want to have high performance, you'll have to have high maintenance - it's always been that way in collectible games, be it Warhammer, Magic, WM/H, or whatever - the meta changes now and then, and you either have to acquire new stuff or accept that someone else has hotter new toys. I can remember Chaos 2. ed being crazy good - then came the Space Wolves who smashed them to bits - and then came the eldar codex, where every Eldar player spammed completely, utterly broken Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks. Trust me, 40k is pretty balanced these days, compared to 2.nd.

Seriously - lighten up. It's a game with little plastic men, something to do with our spare time. It's not worth it to get all worked up about. If GW really grinds your gears that much, pick up some other game (although I wouldn't recommend Magic or WM/H - they have a habit of completely changing the meta every 6 months or so).

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


Seriously - lighten up. It's a game with little plastic men, something to do with our spare time. It's not worth it to get all worked up about. If GW really grinds your gears that much, pick up some other game (although I wouldn't recommend Magic or WM/H - they have a habit of completely changing the meta every 6 months or so).

I struggle to understand why, when all the arguments are used up, one has to resort to this one.
So why discuss in a forum dedicated to this hobby? is stupid (premium price) little plastic men, right? I mean, who gives?

Better doing something else entirely then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:


You mean age of turn and burn kirby?

I start to think the changes are more cosmetic than anything. I had hopes for 8th, still many good thing but something is creeping in.
All the stratagems have a formation vibe. We will see, let's be optimistic.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


I agree. I stated above that this is the DG I came to know in 3rd.
But then why write the 7th edition codex that expanded and fueled the DG of 6th edition?
Above you accuse me to be upset because "I don't like the rules" but you are arbitrarily supporting this decision for the same reasons. What about the gamers that started in 6th, had no idea about the slow death guard and build armies using the 6th and 7th edition books in good faith?
You are essentially saying that you don't give a crap because of fluff you arbitrarily decided is the best. Fluff I like, mind it.
But this is not the fluff those people found, at least not in emphasis, in the 6th-7th edition books.
The time and money of these people deserve respect.

I started playing in Rogue Trader days, and really got going in 2.nd. Back then, I had a 20.000 pts Night Lords army, (points where much higher back then - about 2.5 as much pr. model as today) with a scratchbuilt thunderhawk gunship with the rules from Citadel Journal - and Night Lords were pretty much Khorne Worshippers back then, meaning that I could happily and thematically field lots of berserkers - I think I had about 40. They changed that - thankfully so, because the present fluff is much cooler - but I can't see the point of getting my pants in a bunch over it.

Lots of armies gets changed with new rules - The guys who bought models for Khorne Daemonkin are probably a bit bummed about it too, or the guys that spent hundreds of dollars on grey knights in 6th, because it was the new black. In may I spent 10-20 hours converting a Forgefiend for my new DG army - then, when the index came out, I realised that I wouldn't be able to use it in a pure DG army. Oh well, ces't la vie.

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


Lots of armies gets changed with new rules - The guys who bought models for Khorne Daemonkin are probably a bit bummed about it too, or the guys that spent hundreds of dollars on grey knights in 6th, because it was the new black. In may I spent 10-20 hours converting a Forgefiend for my new DG army - then, when the index came out, I realised that I wouldn't be able to use it in a pure DG army. Oh well, ces't la vie.

I can only conclude that you are the GW target customer, not me and my ebay-hunting out of spite.
Since all the involved parts seem happy, this looks like being the best possible scenario.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


Seriously - lighten up. It's a game with little plastic men, something to do with our spare time. It's not worth it to get all worked up about. If GW really grinds your gears that much, pick up some other game (although I wouldn't recommend Magic or WM/H - they have a habit of completely changing the meta every 6 months or so).

I struggle to understand why, when all the arguments are used up, one has to resort to this one.
So why discuss in a forum dedicated to this hobby? is stupid (premium price) little plastic men, right? I mean, who gives?

Better doing something else entirely then.

I've given lots of arguments - nothing is new, your models are still usable, just not using the rules you would like - and the army is more fluffy than ever before. You just seem to be raging about rules changes, something that's been going on since 2.ed.

Anyway, I'm out.

I really hope the Blight hauler comes out in the 5th week/ Oct. 7th for preorder. I WANTS one (or 3)!

Have you all seen these 'alt' drones that Hi-Tech is making?



They look cool too!

 GuitaRasmus wrote:


I've given lots of arguments

I am afraid that refute to recognize the point (models previously sold as DG are no longer DG) as something relevant does not count as "giving lots of arguments".

 skullking wrote:
I really hope the Blight hauler comes out in the 5th week/ Oct. 7th for preorder. I WANTS one (or 3)!

Have you all seen these 'alt' drones that Hi-Tech is making?



They look cool too!

Not seen it but I like it, or rather I like the central section, but i'd pair it with the real bloat drone rotors

Has there been any word of a start collecting box?

Rather subdued for Hi-Tech's usual levels of extravagance.

CmdRazak wrote:
Has there been any word of a start collecting box?

It’ll come a lot later, if there is one.

I'm returning to 40k after a 5ed break and trying to figure
Out best way too get a death guard army up a d running.
Was hoping like other armies they would get one. I really
Would like to advoid wasting money. Im getting alot of wife
Aggro ATM lol

CmdRazak wrote:
Has there been any word of a start collecting box?

The AUS site has a Patrol detachment up for preorder, not an "official" start collecting box though (also on second look, price wise, exact same as buying separately so no savings - your typical "one click" bundle)

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Harbingers-of-Decay-Petrol-Detachment-2017

CmdRazak wrote:
I'm returning to 40k after a 5ed break and trying to figure
Out best way too get a death guard army up a d running.
Was hoping like other armies they would get one. I really
Would like to advoid wasting money. Im getting alot of wife
Aggro ATM lol

Get your Plague Marines, Poxwalkers and Foetid Blight Drones by buying the DG armies out of the starter sets on eBay.

 Luciferian wrote:

CmdRazak wrote:
I'm returning to 40k after a 5ed break and trying to figure
Out best way too get a death guard army up a d running.
Was hoping like other armies they would get one. I really
Would like to advoid wasting money. Im getting alot of wife
Aggro ATM lol

Get your Plague Marines, Poxwalkers and Foetid Blight Drones by buying the DG armies out of the starter sets on eBay.

This a good way to go. The Plague Marines from this set also combo nicely with the easy build box of 3 PM - makes 2 units of 5 with a special weapon and champ with fist in each.

 ImAGeek wrote:

CmdRazak wrote:
Has there been any word of a start collecting box?

It’ll come a lot later, if there is one.

The TS didn´t get one and they are around the block a little longer. As Deathwatch already got one, but the Cults not, I can´t make out their system for chosing the army to be boxed next.

As for the alternative drone: if this weapons are plugged to it, the DI drone is cheaper. We want to mow down our enemies, so get the mower on.

I got 2 DI sets and built both drones... wish i hadnt so i could build 3 different ones but i guess i will have to smash some weapons off on so i can have one of each type

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

CmdRazak wrote:
Has there been any word of a start collecting box?

It’ll come a lot later, if there is one.

The TS didn´t get one and they are around the block a little longer. As Deathwatch already got one, but the Cults not, I can´t make out their system for chosing the army to be boxed next.

As for the alternative drone: if this weapons are plugged to it, the DI drone is cheaper. We want to mow down our enemies, so get the mower on.

Throwing darts? Is that a system?

If you are afflicted by that terrible condition we call hope, the earliest Start Collecting I remember is Deathwatch in January after a general release in August, so a wait of five months after the release wraps up is the earliest to hope for it.

Personally I'd look at splitting a starter set if possible for a good start to the army, as these are generally good deals and fill the core of the army even better than a Start Collecting box.

 Ubl1k wrote:
I got 2 DI sets and built both drones... wish i hadnt so i could build 3 different ones but i guess i will have to smash some weapons off on so i can have one of each type

This. If you bought (or are planning to buy) some DI sets, just leave the Plaguespitters off of your DI drones and buy a single Drone box, then you can build the drone the way you want and have extra weapons to put onto your DI drone(s). Most DI sets seem to be going for around $50 anyway, which would be the cost of a single drone anyway. Just get some PM an Poxwalkers alongside it.

 puma713 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Did we get a proper plague marine kit yet, or are they literally saving that for last? It's weird the unit in the CSM book comes st the tail end of the DG release.

Oct 14th. And not sure yet if the box is 10 models or 7 models.

Rubrics didn't come in boxes of 9. PG won't come in boxes of 7. It would make no sense for the sprues since it would make it impossible for them to have a duplicate sprue and cover all the models.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Did we get a proper plague marine kit yet, or are they literally saving that for last? It's weird the unit in the CSM book comes st the tail end of the DG release.

Oct 14th. And not sure yet if the box is 10 models or 7 models.

Rubrics didn't come in boxes of 9. PG won't come in boxes of 7. It would make no sense for the sprues since it would make it impossible for them to have a duplicate sprue and cover all the models.

People aren't saying they're going to come 7 to a box because it's Nurgle's magic number. They're saying that because only 7 models were shown in Plague Marine showcase in White Dwarf.

If they come only 7 per box I'm be so triggered... oh jeez man...

Compared to the similiar-priced Rubrics, PMs seem to come with more weapon options. So only 7 models wouldn't be unlikely

Model sizes are the same though

Photo from B&C


The photo at the bottom of the leaked WD page shows two PMs with identical legs. If PMs will turn out to be on two identical sprues with 5 legs each, at least another pair should be seen on that page. To me it seems this could be like the squad in Dark Imperium with two models looking different but having the same legs.

It is a bit annoying that GW hasnt mentioned the number of models in the article...

Personally I prefer 3 more models than a bunch of weapon options. Or better. Both!

Warhams-77 wrote:

The photo at the bottom of the leaked WD page shows two PMs with identical legs. If PMs will turn out to be on two identical sprues with 5 legs each, at least another pair should be seen on that page. To me it seems this could be like the squad in Dark Imperium with two models looking different but having the same legs.

On the flipside, it could be 1 sprue with 5 marines and then a champion/icon bearer/weapons sprue. That would be 7. Believe me, I want the box to be 10, so I'm happy to be wrong.

And for those who've been wondering...

Oh awesome, where was this posted?

Can't wait to see his vid on Mortarion. I've got him built on my desk and too afraid to start painting him without Duncan's guidance lol

It was on Facebook. The video's in progress, we'll see it soon-ish.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Oh awesome, where was this posted?

Can't wait to see his vid on Mortarion. I've got him built on my desk and too afraid to start painting him without Duncan's guidance lol

You can do it, man! Strike out on your own!



Mine just arrived yesterday and is still in the box. I like Duncan's videos, and refer to them as a baseline reference, but part of the fun of this hobby is growing beyond the establish boundaries. Go for it!

I'm gonna be honest, I might experiment with a random model that, if I mess up, can be hidden amongst the rest of his unit. I don't really experiment with models that are a 100$+ center point of my entire army

The easy to build kits are perfect for trying out new schemes and kitbashing experiments. Handful of change for a few models and if it all goes pear shaped, oh well, lesson learned!

Damn i am a sad panda after i found out the prices on the drones :S

You should be able to make them slightly cheaper by getting the basic dark imperium ones off ebay

and then upgrading with the faceplates and weapons from the full kit

so

dark imperium kit

full drone kit

dark imperium kit + left over faceplate and weapon

should get you the 3 different drones for minimal cost

(assuming they build the same which isn't certain until we see the full sprue but from the look of it it should work)

What if you want more than one Fleshmower?

changemod wrote:
What if you want more than one Fleshmower?

I'd guess you'll need more than one kit.

I'm a little disappointed that the kit is $50 USD for a single drone. Honestly I was kind of expecting it to be $75 and we get two.

I already have two DI drones and I feel like the plaguespitter is going to end up the weapon of choice anyway.... I can go buy a half of a DI box at the LGS for $50 so $50 for one drone is way more than I want to pay.

Are the Plague Marines the only kit remaining to be released?

changemod wrote:
What if you want more than one Fleshmower?

I have a few of the DI Drones and I plan to order my Fleshmowers from bits sellers.

Zachectomy wrote:
Are the Plague Marines the only kit remaining to be released?

No. The Myphitic Blight Haulers have yet to be released at the very least.

What is the source for the October 7th preorders?

I wonder if they're going to release clampacks of Lord of Contagion, Malignant Plaguecaster and Noxious Blightbringer? I haven't heard any mention of those models outside of DI. It would be nice if they'd release a second sculpt of each (or at least the Lord and the caster), otherwise players will be forced to buy DI (or purchase from secondary sellers) to get those models.

 puma713 wrote:
I wonder if they're going to release clampacks of Lord of Contagion, Malignant Plaguecaster and Noxious Blightbringer? I haven't heard any mention of those models outside of DI. It would be nice if they'd release a second sculpt of each (or at least the Lord and the caster), otherwise players will be forced to buy DI (or purchase from secondary sellers) to get those models.

Agreed! It seems like all the DI primaris stuff made it out into it's own kits, but these are definitely needed. Of course, I'm still waiting on Genestealer abberations from the overkill boxed game to get their own release, but hopefully they'll do that with the GSC codex.

I'd get a new lord of contaigen if it had a scythe option, and I'd get another blightbringer and Plague caster for sure, though I would hope they'd give the plague caster a better face.

 Luciferian wrote:
What is the source for the October 7th preorders?

Next White Dwarf

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/732375/9617578.page

Warhams-77 wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:
What is the source for the October 7th preorders?

Next White Dwarf

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/732375/9617578.page

Thanks, I missed that discussion page.

I have a feeling that its a 10 man kit (50$ for 7 marines is beyond terrible), but its limited in option like the blight lord kit, one of each special weapon, one flail, one cleaver, one mace/axe, one icon, and enough axes/boltguns for the squad.

At least that's what I'm hoping for

And the Biologus article missing on the previously linked page

Isn't the Plagueburst Crawler meant to go up for pre-order today? I don't know about anyone else, but it's not showing up for me, when this time every Saturday has been the time for pre-orders to go up. Maybe they're having issues or my webpage is broken

ESIT: it's Friday....

EDIT: I can't seem to even spell edit

I was just checking (and thinking) the same thing. Clearly, you're also in Melbourne.

 Azazelx wrote:
I was just checking (and thinking) the same thing. Clearly, you're also in Melbourne.

Haha yep

Just got my hands on the DI Marine models for Nurgle.. very impressive.. totally intimidating to my lousy painting skills..

and NO damn customization realistically..

 puma713 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

There is something in the release that looks rushed.

I agree with this. Something feels like it was pushed out half-baked. It feels like it's missing rules for different mantles of Lords and Casters, it feels like somethings may have been overlooked (maybe Lords and Sorcs are supposed to be T5 and have DR?) and perhaps other things missing? I'm not sure, but I get that feeling too.

I doubt there are plans for additional characters. That "different mantle" thing is just their way of explaining away why a faction that apparently has difficulty cobbling together a full suit of Cataphractii armour is apparently led by dudes who all carry the same axe. "Yeah, there are totally other types of Lords - they're just, uh... off fighting somewhere else. "

 porkuslime wrote:
Just got my hands on the DI Marine models for Nurgle.. very impressive.. totally intimidating to my lousy painting skills..

and NO damn customization realistically..

you're not going to get as much variety out of them as a full multipart kit but you can change things up with them fairly easily (my attempts are here, but there is a decent variety of folk doing similar https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/734222.page)

and don't forget the 3 easybuild ones, their bits will help you convert the DI ones too, plus you'll want the plaguespitter

Interested in new Nurgle miniatures and Crawler tank?
You should check out Bitspudlo's Scourge Mortar
https://hexy-shop.com/shop/sci-fi-miniatures/prusack-scourge-mortar/

 cpt_Molo wrote:
Interested in new Nurgle miniatures and Crawler tank?
You should check out Bitspudlo's Scourge Mortar
https://hexy-shop.com/shop/sci-fi-miniatures/prusack-scourge-mortar/

Passss.

Wow, that was fast!

 cpt_Molo wrote:
Interested in new Nurgle miniatures and Crawler tank?
You should check out Bitspudlo's Scourge Mortar
https://hexy-shop.com/shop/sci-fi-miniatures/prusack-scourge-mortar/

Amazing model with crisp details. Sexy price to boot!

That might be even sexier than the original one. I might get both if I feel the need to run two, because with daemon engines some unique-ness for each is needed, IMO


This is also why GW's (changing) strategy of no early previwes doesn't work.

Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

 BrookM wrote:
Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

I picked them up and I'm using them for this exact purpose. they roll like crap and aren't very easy to read so I wouldn't use them for rolling. They are perfect wound counters though!

 BrookM wrote:
Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

This is exactly how I plan to use them - wound counters. I ordered them expecting to use them as dice, but I was surprised when I opened them to find how light they are and what they used to fill them being spongy. They are very interesting. Personally, I like heavier dice and want my dice to be easy to read, not only for me, but for my opponents. The five and six on the dice are surprisingly similar. Not as bad as the Tzeentch dice, but I probably won't be using them for rolling.

 Modock wrote:

 cpt_Molo wrote:
Interested in new Nurgle miniatures and Crawler tank?
You should check out Bitspudlo's Scourge Mortar
https://hexy-shop.com/shop/sci-fi-miniatures/prusack-scourge-mortar/

Amazing model with crisp details. Sexy price to boot!

Nice to hear that! Thank I will get this info too rest of the guys from the team

 BrookM wrote:
Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

Do they have the same result distribution as normal dice or do you roll more 6´s with them?

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

Do they have the same result distribution as normal dice or do you roll more 6´s with them?

Out of 100 rolls, I rolled 25 6's. Certainly you'd need more data to make any sort of valid determination, but that is a small sample for you.

So maybe the Tallyman is better than most people thought? I just played my first game with one and saved me 5 command points in the game.

He certainly seems more useful to me than the Noxious Blightbringer.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So maybe the Tallyman is better than most people thought? I just played my first game with one and saved me 5 command points in the game.

Well, 7 is the average roll on 2D6.

 puma713 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So maybe the Tallyman is better than most people thought? I just played my first game with one and saved me 5 command points in the game.

Well, 7 is the average roll on 2D6.

Yeah, that's true, but its still nice to get those points back

So, the discussion about the dice made me curious. I rolled the dice 1000 times to get a good average. Here were my results:

6's rolled:

1. 25 of 100
2. 24 of 100
3. 14 of 100
4. 22 of 100
5. 12 of 100
6. 14 of 100
7. 8 of 100
8. 14 of 100
9. 18 of 100
10. 15 of 100

166 of 1000 rolls were 6's. So, 16.6%.

 puma713 wrote:
So, the discussion about the dice made me curious. I rolled the dice 1000 times to get a good average. Here were my results:

6's rolled:

1. 25 of 100
2. 24 of 100
3. 14 of 100
4. 22 of 100
5. 12 of 100
6. 14 of 100
7. 8 of 100
8. 14 of 100
9. 18 of 100
10. 15 of 100

166 of 1000 rolls were 6's. So, 16.6%.

Thank you for the detailed info. So I assume they are balanced like normal ones.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So maybe the Tallyman is better than most people thought? I just played my first game with one and saved me 5 command points in the game.

Did people think he was bad? A cheaper dark apostle that trades the LD bubble for occasional cp refunds is great. The only downside is he's an elite not an HQ. He's a must take if you run poxwalkers at all, costs a bit over a third of what typhus does yet benefits poxwalkers more and has his utility ability going even if he's sitting in the backfield with your screen. Probably one of our best new characters.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I doubt there are plans for additional characters. That "different mantle" thing is just their way of explaining away why a faction that apparently has difficulty cobbling together a full suit of Cataphractii armour is apparently led by dudes who all carry the same axe. "Yeah, there are totally other types of Lords - they're just, uh... off fighting somewhere else. "

Or that's what generic lords are supposed to represent atm, and we might see additional mantles be represented with official units further down the line. I mean, they likely will add additional DG units someday, even if it's years down the line. They are leaving room to grow in the future, not a bad thing.

If we are lucky, we might get a second wave whenever the second batch of primaris units come. Though more likely it'll be one of the other cult legions turns.

Wow, the Prusack Scourge Mortar is cool and has a good price attached, but it's a bit close for comfort, no?

I'd hate to be a TO right now. Here is the rulesheet that comes with the Typhus box. Clearly contains old rules which have since been altered. But, since this has technically been published after the codex I wouldn't be surprised to see people trying to use it

 Luciferian wrote:
Wow, the Prusack Scourge Mortar is cool and has a good price attached, but it's a bit close for comfort, no?

Way to close.
I don't feel that any creative influence was put into that model, so it basically exists as a copy-cat knock off that doesn't look anywhere near as impressive as what it intended to portray.
I can understand people balking at the price of the original, but buying the model from prusack imo reinforces GW's logic on not doing previews.

I suppose it works out differently in different currencies... but would people really rather pay $46 plus shipping for that bad looking knockoff in resin than pay $65 for the much better GW version in plastic?

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I suppose it works out differently in different currencies... but would people really rather pay $46 plus shipping for that bad looking knockoff in resin than pay $65 for the much better GW version in plastic?

I would consider it if it saved me $60 on three PBC, but probably not if I were just buying one or two.

 BrookM wrote:
Has anybody else bought the Death Guard dice? I picked up a tube today and while they are very, very nice, they don't exactly roll all that well due to the light plastic used.

So, I guess these are now fancy wound counters and CP markers.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So maybe the Tallyman is better than most people thought? I just played my first game with one and saved me 5 command points in the game.

Did people think he was bad? A cheaper dark apostle that trades the LD bubble for occasional cp refunds is great. The only downside is he's an elite not an HQ. He's a must take if you run poxwalkers at all, costs a bit over a third of what typhus does yet benefits poxwalkers more and has his utility ability going even if he's sitting in the backfield with your screen. Probably one of our best new ccharacters

My bad I was talking about the command point ability

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

There is something in the release that looks rushed.

I agree with this. Something feels like it was pushed out half-baked. It feels like it's missing rules for different mantles of Lords and Casters, it feels like somethings may have been overlooked (maybe Lords and Sorcs are supposed to be T5 and have DR?) and perhaps other things missing? I'm not sure, but I get that feeling too.

I doubt there are plans for additional characters. That "different mantle" thing is just their way of explaining away why a faction that apparently has difficulty cobbling together a full suit of Cataphractii armour is apparently led by dudes who all carry the same axe. "Yeah, there are totally other types of Lords - they're just, uh... off fighting somewhere else. "

It's just effective worldbuilding, not a big deal at all. They are saying that the fluff is not strictly confined to what's on the tabletop, adding more depth and opening up options for converters, writers, and importantly allows them to release more models down the line without retconning them in. It's the sort of thing they have been repeatedly criticised for not doing in the past.

They seem to be taking their good sweet time with these releases. Which sucks for those us who need the new stuff to build our armies, as we are stuck waiting weeks without being able to play.

Still missing what after this week, the Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler?

Wayniac wrote:
They seem to be taking their good sweet time with these releases. Which sucks for those us who need the new stuff to build our armies, as we are stuck waiting weeks without being able to play.

Still missing what after this week, the Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler?

I actually kind of enjoy it. It's giving me a good pace to build and paint everything at.

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

Just think grenade dude and cute tank thing.

I'm calling the Myphitic Blight-Hauler the scooty boy

It's a METAL SLUG.

Preorders are up in New Zealand...

130 bucks... damn

130 nz$ not US

Yea I know, but still...

Bloat Drone Sprues





not quite identical to the DI version, hopefully the bits will be a simple fit though

Shouldn't be too hard to fit the heavy blight launcher onto the cheapo version, the lawn mower arms may be a bit trickier.

 BrookM wrote:
Shouldn't be too hard to fit the heavy blight launcher onto the cheapo version, the lawn mower arms may be a bit trickier.

Still can't be that bad. Though, to be honest, the fleshmower seems like a pretty easy candidate for a plastic rod/card build anyway.

Wayniac wrote:
They seem to be taking their good sweet time with these releases. Which sucks for those us who need the new stuff to build our armies, as we are stuck waiting weeks without being able to play.

Agreed. While I understand some people enjoy the pace because they want to have to time to build and/or save for more units, I'm in the above group that just wants all the units so I can buy the army I've built from the Codex, then build from there. Instead of getting it piecemeal.

wonder if anyone noticed the grass feature on the close up of the foetid drone?

Wait what lol?
That surely has to be a photoshop error by whoever edited the pictures.

I would rather go with a more creative Crawler alternative. This si upcoming from Miniature Scenery:

https://i.imgur.com/AgW66fL.jpg

 TheWaspinator wrote:
I would rather go with a more creative Crawler alternative. This si upcoming from Miniature Scenery:

https://i.imgur.com/AgW66fL.jpg

A defiler carbon copy body with a knight knee guard stuck underneath , chucked on top of some tentacles? Each to their own, but that looks awful IMO.

The white dwarf leak covers the biologos, infantry part of the release but strangely the cute little drones have been left behind....

I am interested in the Tallyman and Plague Surgeon now being named, did somebody in the legal department make a mistake with trademarks or something?

Anyway have ordered two Crawlers and the Tallyman, £32 for the Crawler from Element Games if anybody is interested.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
I am interested in the Tallyman and Plague Surgeon now being named, did somebody in the legal department make a mistake with trademarks or something?

Well neither of those names are trademarkable at all, and in this world of chasing IP...

I played my first game against Death Guard today and with regard to earlier remarks I have to say those dice are actually very readable. I'm usually quite wary of special dice but found the Death Guard ones are not easy to confuse. They are quite light, though, so for people who don't like that they're not so great.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I already call the surgeon just the Doctor or Plague Doctor (and I am going to convert one using that theme, I will use some bird skull bit from TS), the Tallyman is ok, then we have the Bell-ringer, the Sprayer, the Bomber. The Drones are just Drone +weapon; The tank is the Mortar, is the only one in the army.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I have that trouble with Stormcast units.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I have that trouble with Stormcast units.

I miss the days where a warrior of Chaos was called a... Chaos Warrior. Chaos Warrior with hand-weapon and shield, Chaos Warrior with halberd... and not bloodbound bloodreaver with goreaxe and meatreapper

I don't have my DI drone to check against, but is the fissure-line wound on the multi-kit drone the very same and in the same spot? Overall the kit doesn't scream "buy several of me over the DI one".

The Plagueburst Crawler is damn sexy, but missing a third sprue for an alt-build and a bit of customisation, e.g. the symbol on the dozer blade. Without that option for another gun I'll stick to a single tank for now. Without bits for individualisation I might buy the third party model from a couple of pages back fof an eventual second tank. And if I EVER need a third one I'd probably stick a Plague Claw on a Rhino.

Again more Death Guard releases that are not bad (drone) or even good (tank), but not GREAT.

I have a small daemon engine collection, but I'll be entirely skipping the plagueburst mortar because it doesn't fit the theme of a daemon engine force at all. It's just a tank with an invulnerable save.

The drone and hauler are great examples of what a daemon engine should be: A distinct impression of being alive in some way and a tendency to bite people who get too close even when equipped with ranged weaponry.

 puma713 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
They seem to be taking their good sweet time with these releases. Which sucks for those us who need the new stuff to build our armies, as we are stuck waiting weeks without being able to play.

Agreed. While I understand some people enjoy the pace because they want to have to time to build and/or save for more units, I'm in the above group that just wants all the units so I can buy the army I've built from the Codex, then build from there. Instead of getting it piecemeal.

I like when they spread out releases over a 2-3 week period, but this is way too much.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
I am interested in the Tallyman and Plague Surgeon now being named, did somebody in the legal department make a mistake with trademarks or something?

The thing is the names are just that - names. If you look at the description for Nauseous Rotbone, the Plague Surgeon it describes him as "Nauseous Rotbone, a Death Guard Plague Surgeon". It also describes what a Plague Surgeon is in generic terms, so it is very clear that this isn't a special character. The same is true of the Tallyman. These are unique names attached to generic character minis. Hard to see what trademarking the ridiculous names they've now attached to the mini does for them.

The only other reason I can think of is that they're planning more sculpts, and the name is used to denote the sculpt. Ordinarily I'd not even consider this nowadays, however the Plague Marine alt command sculpts being sold individually suggests it just might be something they're trying out (although I suppose there's less demand for variants of characters than of command). After all in the metal era mono-pose was a big reason for making multiple incarnations of heroes, wizards, et cetera. If the modern CAD style means more mono-pose it might also mean more sculpts per character type.

Yeah, this is very similar to what they did back in the metal mini days, where an inordinate amount of minis got unique names to go with that particular sculpt.

It kinda made me wonder if we will see a trickle of new sculpts and even new character units in the future.

 Geifer wrote:
I played my first game against Death Guard today and with regard to earlier remarks I have to say those dice are actually very readable. I'm usually quite wary of special dice but found the Death Guard ones are not easy to confuse. They are quite light, though, so for people who don't like that they're not so great.

Thanks for the input. My biggest hangup was my opponents' potential reaction to the dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
They seem to be taking their good sweet time with these releases. Which sucks for those us who need the new stuff to build our armies, as we are stuck waiting weeks without being able to play.

Agreed. While I understand some people enjoy the pace because they want to have to time to build and/or save for more units, I'm in the above group that just wants all the units so I can buy the army I've built from the Codex, then build from there. Instead of getting it piecemeal.

I like when they spread out releases over a 2-3 week period, but this is way too much.

And they're releasing the mainstay unit last. I think it is to drive Dark Imperium sales as long as they can.

It is odd that Rotbone is not just any old Plague Surgeon, he is Mortarion's personal Plague Surgeon. I do not think it is a case of them naming particular sculpts though, I do not foresee any other Surgeon/Tallyman sculpts for a long time. And they did not name the Foul Blightspawn and I assume it will be the same with the Biologus Putrifier.

Has anyone actually gotten their models yet, for the "named" generic characters? I'd laugh if they had two datasheets in their kit, one for the generic and a unique named character version.

I honestly stopped keeping up with the releases exact date, I'll just buy it when it comes into the local shop tbh.

It's more likely just a little bit of colour for the Codex, and so those who don't wanna design their own background fluff can paint up as 'this guy from the Codex'. I don't think it heralds alternate sculpts at all.

Damn, still no plague marines box. Is it me or this release is really dragging on. Seems like we havent seen anything new since june

 streetsamurai wrote:
Damn, still no plague marines box. Is it me or this release is really dragging on. Seems like we havent seen anything new since june

They'll be up for preorder next weekend.

JohnnyHell wrote:It's more likely just a little bit of colour for the Codex, and so those who don't wanna design their own background fluff can paint up as 'this guy from the Codex'. I don't think it heralds alternate sculpts at all.

I don't think alt sculpts are likely, just that they were one of the only ways I could make sense of their decision to stick a name on a generic character mini. Plus, they know that people tend to copy standard and/or on the box schemes anyway. That they haven't done it much in the past indicates that they know they don't need to name generics for that. IDK. It's a weird choice. Maybe there is some IP protection reason for it.

streetsamurai wrote:Damn, still no plague marines box. Is it me or this release is really dragging on. Seems like we havent seen anything new since june

Yeah this is killing me. I get teasing out the release but surely lead with the Plague Marines?!

I think we'll see the Blight hauler, Putrifier, and Marines previewed tomorrow.

Does anyone know what the price might be on the Hauler?

Just calling them 'Tallyman' 'Blightspawn' 'Putrifier' etc would have been better IMO (they got one there at least). Would also be nice if the blightlords were just called plague terminators too. Having some stuff with special names, like deathshroud and lord of contagion, would come across a lot better than everything being special.

blight hauler and putrifier next week ... the week after that ... PM, Exalted Champion, & Standard Bearer

 aracersss wrote:
blight hauler and putrifier next week ... the week after that ... PM, Exalted Champion, & Standard Bearer

Plague Marines, Champ, Standard Bearer and Putrifier are all for preorder next weekend.