Good lord I've never had a GW release manage to grind down my enthusiasm quite like this one. Every single positive point get mangled, every bit of good news must be mixed with a host of bad.
I've got morty, I've got the DI and easy build marine stuff, I've got my store reserving me three blightcrawlers when they come in, and I think that's it for this release. That already feels like way too much, but I'm not tossing good money after bad.
If these units were really good for conversions I could justify spending more just on the hobby portion, but everything we've seen kinda seems to indicate no. If they hadn't invalidated the overwhelming majority of my DG collection I'd be more interested in getting models moving forward, but I wasn't interested in starting a new army and that's what this basically has amounted to.
mikesorensonxx wrote: That unit champ and icon bearer should be in that PM box, not separate $25 per unit upgrade. No other unit in warhammer 40k makes you pay $50 for the unit champs, plus $50 for the unit and your still a man short. And there's something wrong when the best thing about the champ fig is the nurgling with a helmet. Now I'm glad I bought 2 of the First strike starter. It was great to fill out my squads (my son plays marines) but I got 2 champs with plasma gun and power fist and 2 blightlaunchers. Those are looking like a premium to buy elsewhere.
There is a unit champ and icon bearer in the PM box.
Look at the picture. They're right there in the forefront.
puma713 wrote: Wait a minute, this means we have to wait ANOTHER week for Myphitic Blight Haulers? Are you f*ing kidding me?
A 7-week release?
I didn't see Blight Haulers at all in a youtube video preview of the October WD. There's only a single photo of their model in the codex, and I'm not entirely convinced that's it's own kit rather than a Bloat Drone conversion.
puma713 wrote: Wait a minute, this means we have to wait ANOTHER week for Myphitic Blight Haulers? Are you f*ing kidding me?
A 7-week release?
I didn't see Blight Haulers at all in a youtube video preview of the October WD. There's only a single photo of their model in the codex, and I'm not entirely convinced that's it's own kit rather than a Bloat Drone conversion.
If that were the case, I think they'd mention that in the Foetid Bloat Drone blurb on the website. They always say "And this can also be built as...", but there's no mention of Myphitic Blight Haulers on the Bloat Drones page. With the popularity the haulers will have (opinion mine), I think they'll have their own kit.
wow did they drop the ball for this one. Most of the sculpts are nice, but the prices are even more absurd than usual (7 t a box !!! really!!!), and the lack of parts and customisation is beyond disapointing. Not to mention the ridiculously snail pace at which it is release (guess it fits with the nurgle theme). And where the frag is the GUO??? DOn't tell me that they didn't made one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "This release keeps getting worse all the time." - Lando Calrissian
It's a 7-man box. The models will likely be as poseable as the Nurgle Terminator kit (that is to say, not much), and it will cost as much if not more than this, or this, or this.
"But guys! GW are getting better! Haven't youn seen their funny YouTube videos!!!"
Horse gak!
I suspect things like some of the Start Collecting sets representing really good value, releasing games and factions people have been crying out for for years, sometimes in a decent value box, have more to do with that. Better PR helps, but I don't think it would have turned their fortunes around alone. They have been better in some ways. Unfortunately, Death Guard represents a low point. A damned shame, because while the minis are on the busy side for my taste I've broadly thought them really nice. If this release hadn't been bungled so badly they'd probably be seen in a more positive way.
THe SC weren't anything new by GW. They were battalion boxes before which were giving you as good a discount, and they didn't include an overpriced clampack that make it not worthwhile to buy more than 1
mikesorensonxx wrote: That unit champ and icon bearer should be in that PM box, not separate $25 per unit upgrade. No other unit in warhammer 40k makes you pay $50 for the unit champs, plus $50 for the unit and your still a man short. And there's something wrong when the best thing about the champ fig is the nurgling with a helmet. Now I'm glad I bought 2 of the First strike starter. It was great to fill out my squads (my son plays marines) but I got 2 champs with plasma gun and power fist and 2 blightlaunchers. Those are looking like a premium to buy elsewhere.
There is a unit champ and icon bearer in the PM box.
Look at the picture. They're right there in the forefront.
I know, but they are releasing the better ones separate. What other unit has that? I also mentioned it would at least bring the unit box up to 9 models. I'm not short on champs, it's just dumb they are releasing them separate.
THe SC weren't anything new by GW. They were battalion boxes before which were giving you as good a discount, and they didn't include an overpriced clampack that make it not worthwhile to buy more than 1
I wasn't saying that it was a new idea, I've got an unbuilt VC box a few feet from me, just that some had very good (relative) value. For instance a monster plus some units for little over the price of a the monster - in a couple of cases, for the same price as the monster. That seems a pretty clear indication that they knew the needed to sweeten the deal on those monsters and probably the sets, too. Of course they could have just lowered prices, but GW is still GW. I do agree about the characters. I'm sure GW would love us to pick up a Start Collecting (+ an allies box for AoS) for every army we start, but would really rather we payed full price for the rest. Making it too easy to build a full 2000+ point force out of a few of those boxes would be tantamount to a price reduction, and we know how they feel about that.
For me the ideal would be complementing these sets with similar price point, similar value sets that didn't overlap too much in content. Something like the allies boxes they did for AoS but a bit bigger. Of course they aren't going to do this for the reason I stated above. Meh. Although as I said the carnosaur and magmadroth did get the price-cut-by-proxy treatment, so who the hell knows at this point?
On another note, what is with all of the mouth-bellies? I hope there's more options in the PM box. I mean, one or two mouth-bellies in a unit is okay, I guess, but why do half or more of them have them? I understand they're a part of Nurgle iconography, but I didn't realize they were a defining characteristic of Death Guard now.
What's up is that the defining visual feature of Plague Marines was bloated bellies and in this day and age GW is mortally afraid of empty surfaces. Luckily they got their CAD library to fix that little problem swiftly, mercilessly and repeatedly. And repeatedly. And repeatedly.
I'm utterly confused by the choice to make 7 figures that look like they'll be restrictive in customisation. Mono pose deathshroud sure get that, snap fit or mono pose start minis, cool. Mainstay unit of the army stuck like that though? Very weird.
Part of me wonders if they've taken this route in an attempt to try and fully conceive their vision for the range, but in the process all the tentacles and horns and mouths etc don't lend well to multi pose kits. So to work around it they have to shoehorn some torsos or legs to be fixed together.
Dudeface wrote: I'm utterly confused by the choice to make 7 figures that look like they'll be restrictive in customisation. Mono pose deathshroud sure get that, snap fit or mono pose start minis, cool. Mainstay unit of the army stuck like that though? Very weird.
Part of me wonders if they've taken this route in an attempt to try and fully conceive their vision for the range, but in the process all the tentacles and horns and mouths etc don't lend well to multi pose kits. So to work around it they have to shoehorn some torsos or legs to be fixed together.
The main problem is the Putrid Blightkings sold very well and became the gold standard for Nurgle minis since then (not to blame them, they are a legitimately awesome kit). The designers obviously then decided to take that and turn it up to 11, which is how we got these plague marines.
mikesorensonxx wrote: That unit champ and icon bearer should be in that PM box, not separate $25 per unit upgrade. No other unit in warhammer 40k makes you pay $50 for the unit champs, plus $50 for the unit and your still a man short. And there's something wrong when the best thing about the champ fig is the nurgling with a helmet. Now I'm glad I bought 2 of the First strike starter. It was great to fill out my squads (my son plays marines) but I got 2 champs with plasma gun and power fist and 2 blightlaunchers. Those are looking like a premium to buy elsewhere.
There is a unit champ and icon bearer in the PM box.
Look at the picture. They're right there in the forefront.
I know, but they are releasing the better ones separate. What other unit has that? I also mentioned it would at least bring the unit box up to 9 models. I'm not short on champs, it's just dumb they are releasing them separate.
You don't know what parts are in the box, if we're going to be brutally honest. You might very well be able to build far cooler champions/icon bearers than the ones shown.
And I find it hysterical that people seem to forget that this was a common practice for a long time for Fantasy which the 40k crowd tended to shrug off as "not their problem".
Kanluwen wrote: And I find it hysterical that people seem to forget that this was a common practice for a long time for Fantasy which the 40k crowd tended to shrug off as "not their problem".
Maybe when the infantry were literally mono-pose, with maybe an option for a different symbol on their shield, as that's all GW's plastics were capable of at the time.
And that was aeons ago. The comparison isn't even remotely valid these days.
I am a big GW fanboy and I love the death guard in look and style. Even I can see that this release is a bit weird. So drawn out, from the early previews to the over a month of releases... the 7 man squad and additional models needed to fill up the squads bothers me.
At this point I am already bought in.. so I just need to deal with it. But it is starting to wear on me.
NurglesR0T wrote: I'm seriously hoping there is a decent amount of plague knives and bubotic axes in the box. if there are only 2 axes for 7 marines...
Oh don't worry, you'll probably get at least three, one to go with the mace and then two extras.
I just made myself sad when I realized this wasn't actually that far fetched.
Kanluwen wrote: And I find it hysterical that people seem to forget that this was a common practice for a long time for Fantasy which the 40k crowd tended to shrug off as "not their problem".
Maybe when the infantry were literally mono-pose, with maybe an option for a different symbol on their shield, as that's all GW's plastics were capable of at the time.
And that was aeons ago. The comparison isn't even remotely valid these days.
Yeah. Maybe im missing something, but i fail to see the point kanluwen is trying to make here
broxus wrote: Here is what will really push me over the edge. If the new plague marine box only comes with 1 or 2 plasma guns (or other special weapons). Then I am forced to buy another 7 man box to get one gun. This forces me to buy much larger boxes of stuff I don’t need to get a single gun. This is why I prefer boxes of 5.
If they come with tons of options and 3 plasma guns then I will happy if I only have to buy the 7 PM box. I sure hope they don’t force me to own 14 marines to have 3 plasma guns. The easy build set of 3 doesn’t come with plasma.
Not otherwise disagreeing with you, but the easy to build set does come with a plasma gun: the bareheaded marine has one on his back.
A defiler carbon copy body with a knight knee guard stuck underneath , chucked on top of some tentacles? Each to their own, but that looks awful IMO.
Oh. Harsh. Still, you're welcome to your opinion. Not that either of the parts mentioned were remotely considered during design, nor can I see them now when I compare.
Kanluwen wrote: And I find it hysterical that people seem to forget that this was a common practice for a long time for Fantasy which the 40k crowd tended to shrug off as "not their problem".
Maybe when the infantry were literally mono-pose, with maybe an option for a different symbol on their shield, as that's all GW's plastics were capable of at the time.
And that was aeons ago. The comparison isn't even remotely valid these days.
Yeah. Maybe im missing something, but i fail to see the point kanluwen is trying to make here
Yeah I was playing fantasy back then and if a unit was in plastic that was a huge bonus. Most you were buying metal blisters of 2, standard bearer and musician, and champion. So the argument is invalid, You were buying everything piecemeal. Like I said, what other "current" unit has separate command figs? (current added for clarification) And as the unit box is 3 men short, they should have rolled those 2 into the unit box to at least make it 9. Yes I'll get the box, but my deathguard army has shrunk in size with all the price gouging. I'd rather just get a different army than expand at these prices.
Good news for the blightlords axe shortage. Orc axes fit nicely on these terminators if you cut off the sword top and pin the axe on. You can’t even notice it is a orc axe. Saved me from buying an extra box. Now lets hope we get 3 plasma guns in this upcoming box.
broxus wrote: Good news for the blightlords axe shortage. Orc axes fit nicely on these terminators if you cut off the sword top and pin the axe on. You can’t even notice it is a orc axe. Saved me from buying an extra box. Now lets hope we get 3 plasma guns in this upcoming box.
That is what I did. 4 Ork axes, drilled holes in them and bam, wonderful conversions.
As for plasma, get the combi bits on shapeways. 10 plasma combi for 10$
Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.
I have that trouble with Stormcast units.
Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.
A defiler carbon copy body with a knight knee guard stuck underneath , chucked on top of some tentacles? Each to their own, but that looks awful IMO.
Oh. Harsh. Still, you're welcome to your opinion. Not that either of the parts mentioned were remotely considered during design, nor can I see them now when I compare.
I think a few bits and a bit of green-stuffed daemon flesh would make this a great crawler alternative for someone who wants a more daemonic look to it. Obviously defiler-inspired in design but to say 'carbon copy body' is a bold-faced lie. I find it hard to believe people would have a problem with it being used as a crawler.
Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.
I have that trouble with Stormcast units.
Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.
Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.
I have that trouble with Stormcast units.
Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.
I'm experiencing this with Primaris marines.
The Stormcast ones seem tough because there's SO many, but the Primaris and DG ones aren't as bad. The Primaris ones generally make sense, whereas the DG ones are more nonsense fluffy. I dig them, though, and can at least keep track of the ones I'm using regularly. Not sure what the alternative would be... 'Heavy Plague Flamer Specialist' is pretty lame sounding.
The GW naming nonsense is truly ridiculous. I simply refuse to even use those silly names. "Your jump pack fellas..." will suffice. Or "those plasma gun dudes". Then again I also still call Wraithlords, dreadnoughts as they used to be...
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.
This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.
I just hope it doesn't herald an age where all releases look like this. Maybe the Primaris and DG were test releases to see how the community handled them and they'll go back to reasonable releases in the future. Although I can't see them redoing a whole new line like they did with DG with any other army. Most other armies have what they need already released in multi-part kits.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.
Again this might be because of only being in the hobby for a couple of years... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released. The only unit I somewhat scoffed at was the Bloat Drone at $50 USD... but even that is going to come with a lot of cosmetic options and whatnot. And when I look back and compare that to, say, an Ad Mech Ironstrider? It's the same price but has more cosmetic options. Not to mention the $ to in-game points ratio is better for the Bloat Drone.
It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far. I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.
As far as the "bad models" question... I find that to be a completely useless thing to complain about. I don't care for a lot of models and armies. I don't really like the way the Adeptus Custodes Custodian Guard models look. I didn't threaten to quit the hobby over it. There will be, at minimum, 19 unique sculpts for Plague Marines when this over. If you can't find any that you like in there, then maybe you just don't like the way the army looks and you should move on? There is nothing wrong with not liking the models. but GW didn't make those models just for you. They made them for a wider audience, and I think that outside of a small group of loud complainers... the models are extremely well received. At my LGS they have a set of the new stuff on display and I just had a conversation with them on Saturday about how this may be the best selling GW release to date, and how much we all loved the Blightlord models.
The attitude that I am seeing in this thread is that people had some expectations about this release and they weren't met. There is nothing wrong with that. But, there is a huge gap between feeling that you're disappointed in what this was, and feeling that GW owed you something they didn't deliver. It's entitlement plain and simple. Just because you played DG before this release does NOT mean that GW is forever required to make models that fit entirely within that box. To do that would mean nothing would ever progress.
Primaris and DG combined aren't even close to as bad as Stormcast. The funny thing is I made one of those up and you don't know which.
Still not as bad as ripperdactyls.
Secaritors. Took about 5 seconds. GW names are not hard to remember.
That you had to find it at all proves my point. And even if you personally can memorize all the names in a single read that doesn't mean anything because it's the community that has trouble, not every single individual within it. Further, it's not just aboht remembering names, when every Death Guard character has three adjectives crammed into its name the names don't mean anything anymore and becomes pointless text. They could have gone with just "Blightspawn" "Putrifier" etc. And it would come across better, especially since that's what they will be called on the table anyway (no one is going to say "Biologis Putrifier" every time they reference the model).
This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.
I do not agree with this part at all. I think the order of the releases could have been better to give us the basic stuff we need up front so we can use all the new goodies from the Codex, but I am happy to see the releases spread out. If everything came out at once, people would have been complaining that they had too much stuff to buy, or not bought everything at once anyway. Spreading them out gives people room to breathe, and maybe even have stuff built every week to keep up with the releases, kind of like how the Konor campaign encouraged you to add a new unit of a certain theme every week. These kinds of things make the hobby much more approachable to new players than the daunting task of figuring out what to buy from a dozen items costing a couple hundred dollars all at once would.
Most of this thread comes off as petty whining. The 7-man box of PM is not great, but there are a ton of ways to get Plague Marines, way more so than something like the Rubrics, which only exist in one (excellent) box. I don't think one is better or worse (other than the price of the PM box), just different, and again generally more approachable. The DI set is awesome, the Easy Build options are awesome, the selection of single-pack characters allows for some smaller purchases. The models are generally gorgeous. Stuff like the weapon selection in the unit boxes are annoying, but nothing new.
This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.
I do not agree with this part at all. I think the order of the releases could have been better to give us the basic stuff we need up front so we can use all the new goodies from the Codex, but I am happy to see the releases spread out. If everything came out at once, people would have been complaining that they had too much stuff to buy, or not bought everything at once anyway. Spreading them out gives people room to breathe, and maybe even have stuff built every week to keep up with the releases, kind of like how the Konor campaign encouraged you to add a new unit of a certain theme every week. These kinds of things make the hobby much more approachable to new players than the daunting task of figuring out what to buy from a dozen items costing a couple hundred dollars all at once would.
What is the harm in having every unit available to buy? I've never said, "OMG Every unit was released and I can't afford each one now." But, on the flipside, when someone wants to buy an entire army and they have to wait 7 weeks to do so, that gets a little tiresome. While we can agree to disagree, you have to realize that for every person that likes a release to be spread out so they can save, there is another person who wants everything released so they can purchase it all at once.
There is no offense in releasing everything and letting those who can afford all of them buy them and those that cannot can save and get them as they need to. You don't need GW to manage your money for you by releasing slowly. That's probably not why they released them across 7 weeks anyway. If anything, I would say it is to discourage bulk purchases from 3rd parties.
I like the release, the look of the minis and to an extent the switch to more monopose figures since they're going for a certain look which would work less well as a more flexible kit
I like the fact we've had (some) official info about it well in advance and more detail as it's got closer, it's so much better than suddenly dropping stuff with no notice at all (except for online rumours at least half of which were made up nonsense)
The two real problems with this release for me have been
1. the obvious 'mirroring' used for several of the plague marines, when you're going far more monopose than most previous releases don't make it so obvious even if digital sculpting makes it easy to do
2. Only 7 Plague Marines in the basic kit (£35) is a major drop compared to the expected 10 especially as it looks like there won't be all the options for every marine
(yes this is pretty normal for a GW kit but if you have freed up space by loosing 3 bodies they could have gone for all the options instead)
but i'm still getting a set, but probably not 2 or 3
and suggesting you can just add an easy build kit (£10) or the web only largely mirrored easy build kit with added art cards (£25) just rubs salt in the perceived wound
Again this might be because of only being in the hobby for a couple of years... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released. The only unit I somewhat scoffed at was the Bloat Drone at $50 USD... but even that is going to come with a lot of cosmetic options and whatnot. And when I look back and compare that to, say, an Ad Mech Ironstrider? It's the same price but has more cosmetic options. Not to mention the $ to in-game points ratio is better for the Bloat Drone.
Sticker shock comes with every new release. I don't think the prices are -too- obscene in comparison to recent 40k releases but they are steep for monopose plastic kits.
It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far. I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.
We don't know if the Death Guard Plague Marine kit will be multipose plastics. Given that most infantry releases in the Death Guard line have been monopose or near monpose they are also likely to lack many substantial option. Also, what? You're getting nickle and dimed to get the squad numbers most other marine kits give by default and yet this is better than the Tactical Squad, the Primaris Intercessors or the Space Wolves kit? Which has a ton of options too, is multi pose and plastic.
As far as the "bad models" question... I find that to be a completely useless thing to complain about. I don't care for a lot of models and armies. I don't really like the way the Adeptus Custodes Custodian Guard models look. I didn't threaten to quit the hobby over it. There will be, at minimum, 19 unique sculpts for Plague Marines when this over. If you can't find any that you like in there, then maybe you just don't like the way the army looks and you should move on? There is nothing wrong with not liking the models. but GW didn't make those models just for you. They made them for a wider audience, and I think that outside of a small group of loud complainers... the models are extremely well received. At my LGS they have a set of the new stuff on display and I just had a conversation with them on Saturday about how this may be the best selling GW release to date, and how much we all loved the Blightlord models.
Do you mean a general "you"? If not, besides Typhus I think the new Death Guard models look pretty good. If they weren't demi-monopose kits I'd consider picking up an army. That's just the feeling I got from skimming this thread.
The attitude that I am seeing in this thread is that people had some expectations about this release and they weren't met. There is nothing wrong with that. But, there is a huge gap between feeling that you're disappointed in what this was, and feeling that GW owed you something they didn't deliver. It's entitlement plain and simple. Just because you played DG before this release does NOT mean that GW is forever required to make models that fit entirely within that box. To do that would mean nothing would ever progress.
People are entitled to their opinions. They can be upset about this all they want. If they were threatening GW with violence or organizing mass boycotts then yeah I'd get that. But they are just expressing their annoyance at it.
Eh. Aren't there about 20 different Plague Narine sculpts across all the releases, including some options in the kit? How custom do people really need things? Not like many of the 'truly multipose' kits look any good if you deviate from the default anyway (and plastic Catachans don't ever look good).
I think that a spread or short release have each pros and cons but ultimately are nothing crucial and concerning only people that want to start the army RIGHT NOW - in few months there will already be no difference. Is really not such a big deal IMHO. Mind I am biased because I am a slow buyer that often uses ebay.
Concerning the 7-men box, well that is another issue. Is 7 men instead of 10 for an higher price, claim that "is a minimun squad PLUS TWO MODELS GW IS SO GENEROUS HOW DARE YOU" is risible. Also, GW is selling a 3 Plague Marines kit with melta for like 40$ and is even suggesting to complete the 7 men team with such kit. This is borderline offensive. In my specific case, what I am doing at the moment is recovering bits and DI plagues from ebay and converting, using different heads and tubes to make the models more unique. Melee weapons with the Blightkings bits (that I highly recommend to any DG player).
GW is "playing it smart" but I am sure they will sell me less PM boxes, 1 at best because I am not eager to pay an high price for mirrored models with minor details changed and an head swap. For that there is ebay and some pleasant (no sarcasm) converting work.
Same thing for the 40$ 3 marines box. I wanted to collect all these DG models but GW is telling me that I have to pay 40$ for some of them. This means that I give up to a complete DG and I will convert to finish the army, probably skipping some of the releases. As an example, I will convert the blight-hauler and I will look for "used up" FW hellbrutes since FW is too stupid to reprint them.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.
The fact that those are bad models is your opinion and it's only shared by a small number of people all things considered.
Most people online seem to like it, and I'm sure they'll sell a ton. In short, a vocal tiny minority of people isn't exactly relevant.
That said, I believe GW has never made such good models. This release has been great, and I don't care that I had to wait a few months.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.
The fact that those are bad models is your opinion and it's only shared by a small number of people all things considered.
Most people online seem to like it, and I'm sure they'll sell a ton. In short, a vocal tiny minority of people isn't exactly relevant.
That said, I believe GW has never made such good models. This release has been great, and I don't care that I had to wait a few months.
Yes, of course it's my opinion. And so is everything you wrote. And I even said I liked the models for the most part!
I'm more and more happy I diverted from an intended DG force months ago (I had planned one just shortly before the proper DG stuff was announced). It really has been a huge mess...the prices and kit decisions would drive me mad.
I'll stick to my one squad of Plague Marines I kit-bashed from 3rd party stuff and MkIII armour...
Honestly I think it's a great release with a lot of really good models. Which is why it's so disappointing to see it tarnished by what are ultimately small problems. It's almost like someone was challenged to mess up the DG release as much as possible while making the smallest amount of mistakes. Is it really so bad that terminators have 3 axe/ 3sword? No, but when adding just one more of each would have fixed the issue almost entirely it seems unreasonable. Couple that with a half dozen other small mistakes like it and it becomes the overall issue; a release that is so close to being absolutely fantastic messed up by easily avoided problems.
Even if some people who play the armies have no trouble remembering the crazy names, there is another problem with it. As GW is trying to lower the barrier to entry to having starter sets and simpler base rules, they may be making people less likely to start by making the background too confusing. Like I said, if I were kind of interested in Stormcast and picked up a White Dwarf to check out their battle report, but couldn't make any sense of what was going on, I might be a little discouraged.
They made it much easier to understand the rules, but way harder to understand the lingo.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Even if some people who play the armies have no trouble remembering the crazy names, there is another problem with it. As GW is trying to lower the barrier to entry to having starter sets and simpler base rules, they may be making people less likely to start by making the background too confusing. Like I said, if I were kind of interested in Stormcast and picked up a White Dwarf to check out their battle report, but couldn't make any sense of what was going on, I might be a little discouraged.
They made it much easier to understand the rules, but way harder to understand the lingo.
I think GW may be hoping for a different effect. With every mention of a unit, someone who doesn't know what it is goes to check and is exposed to the shiny models. Repeat that often enough and you don't just teach the name but connect it with visual identity. I think it's about strengthening brand recognition and, of course, desire to buy stuff.
And would you look at that? The rules are so easy they won't get in the way of your enjoying the AdjectiveNoun NounNouns.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Even if some people who play the armies have no trouble remembering the crazy names, there is another problem with it. As GW is trying to lower the barrier to entry to having starter sets and simpler base rules, they may be making people less likely to start by making the background too confusing. Like I said, if I were kind of interested in Stormcast and picked up a White Dwarf to check out their battle report, but couldn't make any sense of what was going on, I might be a little discouraged.
They made it much easier to understand the rules, but way harder to understand the lingo.
I think GW may be hoping for a different effect. With every mention of a unit, someone who doesn't know what it is goes to check and is exposed to the shiny models. Repeat that often enough and you don't just teach the name but connect it with visual identity. I think it's about strengthening brand recognition and, of course, desire to buy stuff.
And would you look at that? The rules are so easy they won't get in the way of your enjoying the AdjectiveNoun NounNouns.
Don't forget ease of copyrighting and trademarking.
@Qlanth: Your interpretation is far off, but people want to read what they want to read. Abandoning the hobby sounds way different than not investing as much ressources as you initially planned.
You now can join GW in the "Congrats, you played yourself."-club. Have a good day.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Thats fair. But the rhetoric being thrown around here is absolutely off the wall. Honestly it's discussions like these that make me want to quit more than anything else. it seems like no matter where I go to try and find a discussion on the new stuff all I see is horrible negativity, anger, entitlement, name calling, etc. This is in such stark contrast with people i meet IRL who are happy with the new releases.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Even if some people who play the armies have no trouble remembering the crazy names, there is another problem with it. As GW is trying to lower the barrier to entry to having starter sets and simpler base rules, they may be making people less likely to start by making the background too confusing. Like I said, if I were kind of interested in Stormcast and picked up a White Dwarf to check out their battle report, but couldn't make any sense of what was going on, I might be a little discouraged.
They made it much easier to understand the rules, but way harder to understand the lingo.
I think GW may be hoping for a different effect. With every mention of a unit, someone who doesn't know what it is goes to check and is exposed to the shiny models. Repeat that often enough and you don't just teach the name but connect it with visual identity. I think it's about strengthening brand recognition and, of course, desire to buy stuff.
And would you look at that? The rules are so easy they won't get in the way of your enjoying the AdjectiveNoun NounNouns.
Don't forget ease of copyrighting and trademarking.
How could I? Although I find it silly that you would misspell Gravelaw Koppiryte like that.
One thing I have to say though is that while it's all good and well to discuss the merits of such a dragged out release, it's worth considering that for over three months now we've seen nothing new outside the two starter factions for 8th ed. It'll be four months before we get something halfway new with Shadespire. I can understand that GW wants 8th ed and the starter armies to succeed, but it does get dull if you are interested in other factions or Age of Sigmar.
I'll had 0 problems with the Plague Marines 7-man kit if his cost where 70% of the Rubric or other 10-man=40€ boxes kits.
But they cost the same, for a unit that is comparative in basically everything with many other units.
Is like Bloodreavers costing 47€ for 20 and Kairic Acolytes costing 40€ for 20. You can defend the Bloodreavers price, yeah, but at the end of the day they are arbitrarely more expensive for no real reason. (Funny thing, Bloodreavers are 7ppm, Kairic are 12ppm I believe, so even that argument is invalid)
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Thats fair. But the rhetoric being thrown around here is absolutely off the wall. Honestly it's discussions like these that make me want to quit more than anything else. it seems like no matter where I go to try and find a discussion on the new stuff all I see is horrible negativity, anger, entitlement, name calling, etc. This is in such stark contrast with people i meet IRL who are happy with the new releases.
Dude, you can´t even apologize for making an error. Swallow your digital pride.
Also if you just see the negativity in this thread, it is so because you look for it. Here are people that exchange opinions and ideas how to customize their models or make spare parts. Also some alternate producers are presented to accompany the release. Even some shop suggestion have been posted as some army projects. I can´t remember all the good stuff.
But if you just look for the negative aspects, you will only find them and only them. And just for bringing up that old platitude.
Again this might be because of only being in the hobby for a couple of years... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released. The only unit I somewhat scoffed at was the Bloat Drone at $50 USD... but even that is going to come with a lot of cosmetic options and whatnot. And when I look back and compare that to, say, an Ad Mech Ironstrider? It's the same price but has more cosmetic options. Not to mention the $ to in-game points ratio is better for the Bloat Drone.
Sticker shock comes with every new release. I don't think the prices are -too- obscene in comparison to recent 40k releases but they are steep for monopose plastic kits.
It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far. I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.
We don't know if the Death Guard Plague Marine kit will be multipose plastics. Given that most infantry releases in the Death Guard line have been monopose or near monpose they are also likely to lack many substantial option. Also, what? You're getting nickle and dimed to get the squad numbers most other marine kits give by default and yet this is better than the Tactical Squad, the Primaris Intercessors or the Space Wolves kit? Which has a ton of options too, is multi pose and plastic.
As far as the "bad models" question... I find that to be a completely useless thing to complain about. I don't care for a lot of models and armies. I don't really like the way the Adeptus Custodes Custodian Guard models look. I didn't threaten to quit the hobby over it. There will be, at minimum, 19 unique sculpts for Plague Marines when this over. If you can't find any that you like in there, then maybe you just don't like the way the army looks and you should move on? There is nothing wrong with not liking the models. but GW didn't make those models just for you. They made them for a wider audience, and I think that outside of a small group of loud complainers... the models are extremely well received. At my LGS they have a set of the new stuff on display and I just had a conversation with them on Saturday about how this may be the best selling GW release to date, and how much we all loved the Blightlord models.
Do you mean a general "you"? If not, besides Typhus I think the new Death Guard models look pretty good. If they weren't demi-monopose kits I'd consider picking up an army. That's just the feeling I got from skimming this thread.
The attitude that I am seeing in this thread is that people had some expectations about this release and they weren't met. There is nothing wrong with that. But, there is a huge gap between feeling that you're disappointed in what this was, and feeling that GW owed you something they didn't deliver. It's entitlement plain and simple. Just because you played DG before this release does NOT mean that GW is forever required to make models that fit entirely within that box. To do that would mean nothing would ever progress.
People are entitled to their opinions. They can be upset about this all they want. If they were threatening GW with violence or organizing mass boycotts then yeah I'd get that. But they are just expressing their annoyance at it.
For some, every slight criticism of GW is entitlement
It's funny, at the latest Games Workshop shareholder meeting they mentioned that they created the new GW community pages because they saw that most 3rd party places were filled with grumpy old-timers who were driving away people who were new to the hobby.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Thats fair. But the rhetoric being thrown around here is absolutely off the wall. Honestly it's discussions like these that make me want to quit more than anything else. it seems like no matter where I go to try and find a discussion on the new stuff all I see is horrible negativity, anger, entitlement, name calling, etc. This is in such stark contrast with people i meet IRL who are happy with the new releases.
The nature of the internet is that you’ll get more complaints, that’s just how it is. If it’s affecting your passion for the hobby, just avoid it. Aside from that, I don’t think any complaints have been too much like horrible negativity or entitlement. Just people dissatisfied with the release for pretty understandable reasons, for the most part.
Qlanth wrote: It's funny, at the latest Games Workshop shareholder meeting they mentioned that they created the new GW community pages because they saw that most 3rd party places were filled with grumpy old-timers who were driving away people who were new to the hobby.
Sound familiar to anybody?
Ah, I see what you did there. Because you have no retort you instead just resorted to passive aggressive name calling. Nice.
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Thats fair. But the rhetoric being thrown around here is absolutely off the wall. Honestly it's discussions like these that make me want to quit more than anything else. it seems like no matter where I go to try and find a discussion on the new stuff all I see is horrible negativity, anger, entitlement, name calling, etc. This is in such stark contrast with people i meet IRL who are happy with the new releases.
Dude, you can´t even apologize for making an error. Swallow your digital pride.
Also if you just see the negativity in this thread, it is so because you look for it. Here are people that exchange opinions and ideas how to customize their models or make spare parts. Also some alternate producers are presented to accompany the release. Even some shop suggestion have been posted as some army projects. I can´t remember all the good stuff.
But if you just look for the negative aspects, you will only find them and only them. And just for bringing up that old platitude.
I apologize for misinterpreting what you said.
But I won't apologize for coming to this thread and finding all this complaining. if you go through pages 98 to 103 I think you'll see an absolutely overwhelming amount of negativity that includes people decrying all of Games Workshop and claiming that the release is essentially dead-on-arrival. Please, feel free to take a deep breath, clear your mind, and review those pages with objectivity. I think you'll find that the reactions are patently absurd.
Qlanth wrote: It's funny, at the latest Games Workshop shareholder meeting they mentioned that they created the new GW community pages because they saw that most 3rd party places were filled with grumpy old-timers who were driving away people who were new to the hobby.
Sound familiar to anybody?
So in other words they don't want the new customers to know what GW is (or at least was) capable to pull off, so they created a "safe space" in which no meanies can pollute the happy environment with stories on bad GW policies (price or else, perhaps pointing out alternativs), or attempts to monetise the term "space marine". Same here - is unconceivable for you that people can be disappointed by the release after the excitement and in case, they should keep it for themselves or they ruin it for you.
But I won't apologize for coming to this thread and finding all this complaining. if you go through pages 98 to 103 I think you'll see an absolutely overwhelming amount of negativity that includes people decrying all of Games Workshop and claiming that the release is essentially dead-on-arrival.
I think we will need another quote here buddy. Take your time this round.
No offence but you look like a shill or someone concerned the comments (that are spot-on IMHO) could somehow diminish the sales.
I have been more happy with the DG codex, and its unique army evolution more than the models released for it.
So, about the Blightlord Terminators. I am very confused on these. I was going to do combi bolters + axes for all 5. Simple, and cost effective, and easy to roll with the same loadout, right?
So I read the description on the unit "Each comes armed with a combi-bolter, and a choice of either a balesword or bubotic axe – " .
Did I read that wrong? I mean each and a choice of sure makes it sound like there is enough swords and axes for well....EACH one. Thats why I bought the kit, and dug into it without doing an inspection of the sprues. Am I wrong???
Qlanth wrote: Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.
People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...
Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.
People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.
Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.
Uhm, you did lol
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: The standart bearer is a mirrored DIPM with other bits. And the champion has nothing going for him, except that nurgling, but I wont take him.
So the box of seven is a new low, that ain´t some bag of chips or other groceries, where they cheat by decreasing the content and maintaining the same prices and package. And I get a feeling, that the PM sprues will be barren as the others.
GW congrats, you played yourself. No 2000 points army with optional units for me then, just a small force. I dig the style and background of the army, but I can´t justifiy to myself this prices. I rather invest in another hobby.
On another topic: I would replace the Tallymans head with the one from the PM´s champion.
Not spending money on a release isn’t the same thing as quitting the hobby.
Thats fair. But the rhetoric being thrown around here is absolutely off the wall. Honestly it's discussions like these that make me want to quit more than anything else. it seems like no matter where I go to try and find a discussion on the new stuff all I see is horrible negativity, anger, entitlement, name calling, etc. This is in such stark contrast with people i meet IRL who are happy with the new releases.
The nature of the internet is that you’ll get more complaints, that’s just how it is. If it’s affecting your passion for the hobby, just avoid it. Aside from that, I don’t think any complaints have been too much like horrible negativity or entitlement. Just people dissatisfied with the release for pretty understandable reasons, for the most part.
I think you're right. I just wish I had a place to kill some time discussing this stuff without having to slog through 4 pages of people claiming that what appears to be the most successful GW release to date is also the worst thing to happen to 40k. I have no problem with being disappointed. I have no problem with people who think the prices are too high. it's the stuff where people start to claim to know why they are priced that way, assign some strange ulterior motives to the pricing, or create strange conspiracy theories, that I start to get frustrated.
If you don't like it fine, if you don't want to buy it, fine, but 4-5 pages of absolutely whining and complaining is not something I want to read through.
Qlanth wrote: It's funny, at the latest Games Workshop shareholder meeting they mentioned that they created the new GW community pages because they saw that most 3rd party places were filled with grumpy old-timers who were driving away people who were new to the hobby.
Sound familiar to anybody?
So in other words they don't want the new customers to know what GW is (or at least was) capable to pull off, so they created a "safe space" in which no meanies can pollute the happy environment with stories on bad GW policies (price or else, perhaps pointing out alternativs), or attempts to monetise the term "space marine".
Same here - is unconceivable for you that people can be disappointed by the release after the excitement and in case, they should keep it for themselves or they ruin it for you.
But I won't apologize for coming to this thread and finding all this complaining. if you go through pages 98 to 103 I think you'll see an absolutely overwhelming amount of negativity that includes people decrying all of Games Workshop and claiming that the release is essentially dead-on-arrival.
I think we will need another quote here buddy. Take your time this round.
No offence but you look like a shill or someone concerned the comments (that are spot-on IMHO) could somehow diminish the sales.
I've said several times that I don't mind that people are disappointed. In fact it's inevitable. But it does seem to be just a handful of people who are absolutely dominating this negative discussion. Like I said, I was taken aback by the pricing on the bloat drone... until I went and compared it to other models. I found that it was essentially priced in line with comparable units.
As far as your quote goes. I'm not going to do that. Just read from page 98 on and you'll find everything you need.
Is that true that the Blight Hauler is yet ANOTHER week off from the plague marines? Wow, this release is REALLY drawn out to the point of just being silly now. I'm glad they're spitting out other codex along side it, but it's getting silly now. At least we're getting models for everything in the codex, the old GW would have never bothered to do that.
Did I read that wrong? I mean each and a choice of sure makes it sound like there is enough swords and axes for well....EACH one. Thats why I bought the kit, and dug into it without doing an inspection of the sprues. Am I wrong???
There's 3 axes and 3 swords. So no, each one doesn't have a choice of either one.
The problem with the weapons is one I can understand but at this point is so common in GW kits that is more a little issue at least for me. My real problem with Blighlords is the small amount of customization they have.
They are so full of character that having duplicates or slighly different but at the end of the day same dudes is prety bad. Like, the fly-terminator. I love it, I'm totally gonna buy a box so I can have one. But having two totally erases the point of him being unique.
Is the opposite of the Stormtrooper effect, You can have all the loyalist terminators that you want because they are basically in a uniform, so they can be all the same without having a problem. But when you have duplicates of all this "ultra unique models" that individually area beautifull, it hurts.
But, well. i love troops. Troops are my favourite thing in all of Warhammer. I love to spam troops, to personalice them, etc... so personally, my biggest problem with the DG whole release is the PM box only having 7 dudes.
Really GW, just give me 10. I need to buy 3 boxes (4 5-man squads+1 hero I suppose) if I want to have round numbers and not DG marines lying around. (Because I already have the 7 from DI and the 3 from the easy-to-build kit)
The lack of customization of Blighlords and Deathsrhouds as I explained, is something too that I don't like. The no-powerfist, or only 3 axes and 3 swords, or only 1 of every combi-weapon, well. As I'm building a DG army from 0 they don't affect me that much.
But oh man... the 7-man box has really triggered me!
They are so full of character that having duplicates or slighly different but at the end of the day same dudes is prety bad. Like, the fly-terminator. I love it, I'm totally gonna buy a box so I can have one. But having two totally erases the point of him being unique.
Personally, I am buying 4-5 boxes of Blightlords because I want to do a Plaguewing type army. I was playing with the idea of doing a full unit of the fly-terminators.
Thats other (And more expensive way) of fixing the problem. If you have 1 is cool, if you have two is weird, if you have 20 they become their own stromtroopers
But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno
I can't imagine how you guys could have handled the old school metal blister ages of wargamming
People appreciated the new age of plastic because allowed more customisable kits with loads of bits compared to the metal, and now we are going backwards with monopose again, and exactly THAT is the problem.
I mean does not look that difficult to understand to me.
RIPferdy wrote: This is a beautiful release with tons of kits, most other armies would kill for a release like this
i wish they would have just released 5 of them and I feel like people would feel safe with a rounder number and not be complaing so much
I can't imagine how you guys could have handled the old school metal blister ages of wargamming
Oh yes. I think I have been pretty vocal about how I'm loving this release, the scope, how big it is, and wishing this to happen to many other armies. And have been called whiteknights sometimes for that But the fact that I can praise GW when I think they do something good, doesn't mean that even with something I think in the general sense has been good like NithMusketeer sais, theres things, that don't feel appropiate for me. For me personally, the worst is the 7-man box of PM.
And I can agree that Dakkadakka is negative. Very, very negative, and people here has pretty strong opinions. But thats the fun! When I feel tired of all this negativity, I go to other places to remain me that not everything is bad and black and GW isn't gonna steal my cows and toss salt into my crops!
RIPferdy wrote: But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who just got into this hobby I feel like I joined at the best possible time. I also got my GF into it, and two of my close friends as well. While there is always something to nitpick, I couldn't be happier with the releases for DG and the news that they want to be doing continuous releases of this nature throughout 8e is very good news.
RIPferdy wrote: But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno
Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you
Did I read that wrong? I mean each and a choice of sure makes it sound like there is enough swords and axes for well....EACH one. Thats why I bought the kit, and dug into it without doing an inspection of the sprues. Am I wrong???
There's 3 axes and 3 swords. So no, each one doesn't have a choice of either one.
I know that. Thats kind of my point.......
They make it sound like there is a choice of either, when there is not. Its worded wrong, I think.
Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you
Did you actually just encourage a new person who was being positive to leave? Congratz on being the shining beacon of negativity that he was referring to.
On topic, I like the release overall but there have been a few things that bugged me. 7-man plague marine squad is definitely one, lack of weapon options is two, and a few of the points costs / rules (trash tier plague surgeon wtf?) is the last main part. Still it's a huge step in the right direction compared to the old GW we are used to. I'll count my blessings, do some resin casting to fill in the gaps left by GW, and hope they keep improving in future releases.
RIPferdy wrote: But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno
Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you
Qlanth wrote: ... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released.
Then you haven't looked hard enough. These are releases that cost the same as the equivalent previous Chaos release (1KSons) yet almost all mono-pose without many options to speak of. And you're aware that there's a box of 7 Plague Marines that costs as much as other army's infantry kits that both have more options and more posability? You know the Plague Marine box is 7 models, right?
Qlanth wrote: It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far.
That's the point. They're comparable for less.
Qlanth wrote: I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.
It's not. It's objectively less. Fewer models and fewer options, and some models don't even have options.
As I've brought up a number of times, compare this to this.
Both are the same cost. Both are three miniatures. One is a multipart kit that allows you to build 3 models in a variety of weapons, with different poses, weapon details, heads and even an optional Disc of Tzeentch. The other is a three-pack of mono-pose characters where you get a few extra heads, one extra chest, one extra scythe head and I think one extra gauntlet gun. That's it. They'll always be in the same three poses.
And I'd've been fine with that if they didn't cost the same.
What I do when I have multiples of the same model (cultists, metal plague Marines, rhinos orkz, more orkz, trukks etc) is paint them in different color schemes. My Loyalist marine army is the only one that's uniformly painted.
Just a suggestion!
Automatically Appended Next Post: People see hung up on lack of variation in the kit, but how often do we really have them in the table (for a mechanized list) and how often do we actually keep units intact? I find casualties start real early in this edition. Are we really gonna notice that two of the same tentacle maw Marines are on the table together and get confused?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Don't get me wrong I OCD made sure not to have the same ork heads on the same irk bodies and Divvied up each unit to be as evenly distributed as possible for my Orks!
RIPferdy wrote: But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno
Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you
I'll be joining him too, not that it matters to you.
This forum has become so toxic it's simply not worth contributing any longer. People trying to enjoy any release are shouted down by everyone with a bone to pick with GW and the mods sit by and allow it to happen time and time again.
RIPferdy wrote: But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.
I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno
Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you
I'll be joining him too, not that it matters to you.
This forum has become so toxic it's simply not worth contributing any longer. People trying to enjoy any release are shouted down by everyone with a bone to pick with GW and the mods sit by and allow it to happen time and time again.
Thats why I don't recommend this forum to new people to this hobby, but after you have hair in yours... and one has pased that purity phase where everything is shiny and beautifull, one that your friends should try to make it last as long as they can, is time to come here and play in the mud!
And always repeat, before login in DakkaDakka, the mantra "This people is living all around the world. I will never meet them personally. Their opinions have no power over me"
FWIW I've also been turned off by the constant negativity. I like to get excited about new toys but this thread seems to make me feel worse. I'm a recent addition to the forum but it's honestly turning me away. (I looked for a better thread/sub-forum to mention this but didn't see one.)
On topic I actually find the number of releases overall to be overwhelming. As a wargame newbie, a smaller release window would make it feel even more insurmountable. But I can understand the desire to move on. I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!
Clanan wrote: FWIW I've also been turned off by the constant negativity. I like to get excited about new toys but this thread seems to make me feel worse. I'm a recent addition to the forum but it's honestly turning me away. (I looked for a better thread/sub-forum to mention this but didn't see one.)
On topic I actually find the number of releases overall to be overwhelming. As a wargame newbie, a smaller release window would make it feel even more insurmountable. But I can understand the desire to move on. I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!
I beg your pardon but what's the point of discussing something in a thread if everybody agrees that everything is awesome. We would fall asleep after 5 minutes.
Secondly, I do ask what is "toxic" in posts like the one of H.B.M.C. above. The guy listed objective, measurable arguments to state that the kit sold is inferior. One can not agree but you cannot dismiss that as "toxic" just because you disagree and that hurts your delicate feelings. I do hope one can discuss the quality of a kit in a thread dedicated to such kit.
I have the feel that label any answer that is not positive "toxic" is a way to shut it down and to depict anyone that is not WOWSUPEREXCITED100% for a new kit as a naysayer, while there is way more nuance to that. People could have appreciated the models but not the release schedule, some don't care about the release but find some of the models too busy (not that cannot be fixed). I sounded at one moment as a GW employe myself stating that you can improve the Plagues buying... another GW kit (Blightkings)! Seriously do it, or at least find the bits.
I suppose that unless a Genestealer Cult took over were are not an hive mind so it happens we like and dislike different things. I see that nowadays being critic is always seen as negative but discussion is an healthy way to analyse thing and perhaps change one mind in a direction or another. I do wonder if these reaction and this "toxic" labeling aren't an aftereffect of this excessively politically correct zeitgeist.
Consider that albeit I have to modify them, I acquired some PM because I find the "basics" of the models well executed, even if at the beginning I was not interested (too busy). Guess how I changed my mind? Dakka. As Galas and I stated some post above, those who criticize end up buying
Kaiyan, your post is a great example of why I come out of these threads feeling worse. I put forward honest newbie feedback which I hope is useful (because I like this forum and want to get more into wargaming). Then you tear into me with strawman arguments and insults. Anyway, this thread probably isn't the place for this so I'll cease the conversation. You win.
Clanan wrote: Kaiyan, your post is a great example of why I come out of these threads feeling worse. I put forward honest newbie feedback which I hope is useful (because I like this forum and want to get more into wargaming). Then you tear into me with strawman arguments and insults. Anyway, this thread probably isn't the place for this so I'll cease the conversation. You win.
Well you know what? You win. I prefer boards where people don't feel bad just because other have a different opinion. But hey. Is how it works nowadays.
I have a feeling we are headed for a "back on topic" warning here folks.
My 2 cents is that I like to see people's takes on all the new models but I'm also very weary of people who voice extreme opinions. When emotional arguments like "I've been in this hobby for 30+ years but this kit is the final straw, I am giving away all my mini's and moving to a different game system" I can't help but cringe a little bit.
Anyway, my thoughts on the 7 man box;
1) Pricing is pretty off base but is definitely expected given the Primaris release prices and based on the fact DI was so cheap. (without the book and Primaris value, $50 US for 7 marines, 20 pox walkers, 1 drone and 3 characters!) I believe they call this "baiting" in the sales world; buying in is cheap and once you're committed they can ask any price so that you complete your collection. While I really dislike it, it's a good sales strategy as all of us who want the unique DG poses will begrudgingly buy in. Don't get me wrong, I love that there are 18-19 unique PM sculpts, but the price point is ridiculous. I justify it (very slightly) by thinking that the 7 PM's in DI only cost about one to two dollars each.
2) CAD and mirroring; main body poses being mirrored is a slight annoyance but at least they used different arms/accessories/heads. I am hoping to flex my modelling muscle and change up a few of the mirrored sculpts enough to alter the pose.
3) Weapon options in boxes of this release. Yes they are limited, yes this has been a trend with GW, and yes it's always been annoying, but again; not something that can't be fixed with a little bit of modelling. There are literally hundreds of sellers online offering bits for plasma/flamer/melta weapons that can easily be subbed into this release with minimal converting work. Yes, it's harder than getting it out of the box, but if I'm gonna spend $60 on a 5 man squad, paying $3.50 for come extra bits online will not be the deal breaker for me.
On the topic of next week's releases:
Any indication at all of Blight Hauler's release date? I'm itching to get one or two ASAP.
I think there's been a lot of whining in this thread, but also a lot of legitimate criticism. Not all of it is toxic, though some certainly is.
At any rate, checked out the close ups on the new miniatures. Still love the tallyman, my favorite model by far, and that nurgling is just great. Crawler is also pretty cool, I would personally sculpt some daemon fleshy bits in places but the overall slug shape and the gear mechanism behind the gun is really cool. Also looks way better than in the initial white paint job we saw early on.
Doctor is really flat for me. Solid sculpt quality but if it's gunna be that price for a single mini I'd expect something less bland. Bloat drone looks great, bit expensive for what is ultimately a small vehicle but people's idea of getting two DI drones with one drone kit saves that for the most part.
I personally love the sculpts and the overall aesthetic they went with, and I'm annoyed at the lack of customization but I'm used to converting things. The pricing is a bit much for me to justify being "all in" on this release, though. I was originally going to buy all of my army as genuine NIBGW product so I could play it at the GW store or wherever I wanted to, but I'm inclined to cut some corners now.
I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.
Blight hauler to me is infantry support piece. I like the limited options because they’re good and paired up with pox walkers moving the festering horde across the field sounds great.
Honestly when I eventually get Typhus I will probably only remove the silly Nurgling from him, but otherwise I'm okay with the pose. I just wish the Nurgling was a separate detail so that I could use it on a more appropriate model, but oh well... That said, that conversion in the pic you shared is amazing!
Galas wrote: I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.
Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?
I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.
Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.
It's strange that that a vehicle that has, essentially, Dreadnought weapons wasn't given a few other Dread-like options. I mean, looking at theHelbrutesprues shows off how simple the weapons are.
Given all GW can do with CAD, it's bizarre that they'd release something so option-less.
Galas wrote: I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.
Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?
I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.
Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's strange that that a vehicle that has, essentially, Dreadnought weapons wasn't given a few other Dread-like options. I mean, looking at theHelbrutesprues shows off how simple the weapons are.
Given all GW can do with CAD, it's bizarre that they'd release something so option-less.
Is like the fact that the Deathsrouds come in three small hero-sice sprues. Even if I like the models, the release in general, etc... all this totally arbitrary things are like... WTFGW?!
Deathshrouds was a wasted opportunity to have a cool dual kit - manreapers for one config, and chem weapons (some sort of super plague spewer) for the other (ala Grave Wardens)
Keep Blightlords as the generic terminators and give them back their fething powerfists lol
Galas wrote: I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.
Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?
I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.
Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.
Another symptom of the Codex feeling rushed.
In a business like this, it's normal that things are rushed. You have the design phase, prototypes, production, development, marketing, etc., each with their own deadlines and all of them scheduling months ahead. And that's for a single release, then you have to insert it in a wider yearly release schedule.
A mere one week delay can cause huge problems. So yeah things are always rushed. I can't think of any big videogame, movie, toy you name it that wasn't rushed.
Well there's some (thinking of Mad Max Fury Road) but they are the exception, not the rule. Companies this big have generally tight deadlines and have to follow them, there's no "it'll come out when it's ready".
Clanan wrote: I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!
If you're referring to the rumor engine art, I believe that has been identified as belonging to the Beast of Nurgle artwork in the Death Guard codex, with a model coming supposedly when daemons get their codex or an Age of Sigmar release.
anyone remember how much the plague marine kit is going to be in AU$ ?...I think I remember it being mentioned here, but I have no idea how many pages of bickering I'm gonna have to wade back through to find it again...
(I checked the OP, and I could only find the £ price, which never converts in any kind of logical way to AU$)
H.B.M.C. wrote: And you're aware that there's a box of 7 Plague Marines that costs as much as other army's infantry kits that both have more options and more posability? You know the Plague Marine box is 7 models, right?
And considering their eagerness to promote that £25 Plague Brethren set to make up the numbers to 10....so, GW is pushing for us to pay £55 for a Troops choice.
That's beyond Sisters of Battle levels of insanity. They pay £50 for a METAL sisters squad.
I am glad I held back on purchasing more DG after getting the DI and 3 easy to build Plague Marines. I guess I will play them as a small detachment with my DC army, as I can't justify supporting this release model.
Mousemuffins wrote: Glad there's only (rightfully and properly) Seven in the box. Now I wont have 3 wasted models.
If it was seven at a lower price point that might be feasible.
This is seven sub-par models at a higher price point. This is pretty terrible. The Blightlord Terminators and Deathshroud are BARELY better than the snapfits from DI...I have no faith for these.
honestly, I prefer the DI plague marine sculpts to what I've seen from the actual plague marine kit so far...and really, if I can't manage a couple of weapon swaps, what am I? ...so, yeah, I've just bought 2 more death guard halves of dark imperium off ebay...for AU$20 more than 2 plague marine kits...yes, I'll have to to some converting, and the stuff won't come with some options and whatnot, but I can convert that stuff, I have plenty of spare ork choppas/axes/etc that would work just fine...I can turn a spare LoC into a debatably better typhus, DIY some fleshmowers for drones, etc, etc.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And you're aware that there's a box of 7 Plague Marines that costs as much as other army's infantry kits that both have more options and more posability? You know the Plague Marine box is 7 models, right?
And considering their eagerness to promote that £25 Plague Brethren set to make up the numbers to 10....so, GW is pushing for us to pay £55 for a Troops choice.
That's beyond Sisters of Battle levels of insanity. They pay £50 for a METAL sisters squad.
Like...
Seriously...
WTF?!
They also promoted the Easy to Build set to make up the numbers to 10.
I really like the models, there are a lot of nice sculpts. It may not be perfect and I never expected it to be but the release has fulfilled a lot of wishes I had when I started DG in 2013
Warhams-77 wrote: I really like the models, there are a lot of nice sculpts. It may not be perfect and I never expected it to be but the release has fulfilled a lot of wishes I had when I started DG in 2013
A selection of PM photos - TheMawr on Disqus
Hey Warhams, what do the letters actually mean? are those the legs used and suggest that the torso's are separate from the legs?
This is really encouraging, and it seems like it didn't take a crazy amount of cutting to do the repose. I like the scythe arm down like this way more, both for looks and because he'll fit in a case better. Hopefully I can still fit the fly swarm on there, even if it needs to be bent or re-directed slightly. You all complaining about the nurgling buddy on his belly are bad people, though.
This is really encouraging, and it seems like it didn't take a crazy amount of cutting to do the repose. I like the scythe arm down like this way more, both for looks and because he'll fit in a case better. Hopefully I can still fit the fly swarm on there, even if it needs to be bent or re-directed slightly. You all complaining about the nurgling buddy on his belly are bad people, though.
Indeed, especially since the old model had the same Nurgling there. Those conversions show that the model has lots of potential to look cool. I'm just not sure if I want to buy a 30€ infantrymodel only to cut it and make it look like my old beloved Metaltyphus ;-)
Mousemuffins wrote: Glad there's only (rightfully and properly) Seven in the box. Now I wont have 3 wasted models.
A good loadout fot PM is 5 with three specials. Now, I started in 3rd so I see my squads in multiples of 7 but let's not fool ourselves here. Especially at that price.
On a more positive note, I am now sold of Typhus. One can work on the model and the pose, apparently. Also is true that the Nurgling was on the old model. A bit like with Ahriman and Kharn they (wisely) kept more or less the old concept, pose excluded.
Mousemuffins wrote: Glad there's only (rightfully and properly) Seven in the box. Now I wont have 3 wasted models.
A good loadout fot PM is 5 with three specials. Now, I started in 3rd so I see my squads in multiples of 7 but let's not fool ourselves here. Especially at that price.
Mousemuffins wrote: Glad there's only (rightfully and properly) Seven in the box. Now I wont have 3 wasted models.
A good loadout fot PM is 5 with three specials. Now, I started in 3rd so I see my squads in multiples of 7 but let's not fool ourselves here. Especially at that price.
Blasphemy.
I think one should leave options to fluffy players but to less fluffy ones, too. Also observe the $-per-model. Said this, I am building the squads 7 at time, even if in a more competitive environment I could be forced to use 5 men teams or big blobs to exploit psycho-buffs and stratagems.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And you're aware that there's a box of 7 Plague Marines that costs as much as other army's infantry kits that both have more options and more posability? You know the Plague Marine box is 7 models, right?
And considering their eagerness to promote that £25 Plague Brethren set to make up the numbers to 10....so, GW is pushing for us to pay £55 for a Troops choice.
That's beyond Sisters of Battle levels of insanity. They pay £50 for a METAL sisters squad.
Like...
Seriously...
WTF?!
They also promoted the Easy to Build set to make up the numbers to 10.
That's even less feasible....
Because one's a champion by default, one's a special weapon. You literally get 1 viable single plague marine.
Touting either of those options is pretty bad to be honest.
I think that a lot of this argument comes down to the language that is used. People need to present their OPINIONS as their PERSONAL OPINION, rather than broad statements of FACT.
Mousemuffins wrote: Glad there's only (rightfully and properly) Seven in the box. Now I wont have 3 wasted models.
If it was seven at a lower price point that might be feasible.
This is seven sub-par models at a higher price point. This is pretty terrible. The Blightlord Terminators and Deathshroud are BARELY better than the snapfits from DI...I have no faith for these.
This is presented as a fact for what is effectively 3-4 OPINIONS.
In a business like this, it's normal that things are rushed. You have the design phase, prototypes, production, development, marketing, etc., each with their own deadlines and all of them scheduling months ahead. And that's for a single release, then you have to insert it in a wider yearly release schedule.
A mere one week delay can cause huge problems. So yeah things are always rushed. I can't think of any big videogame, movie, toy you name it that wasn't rushed.
Well there's some (thinking of Mad Max Fury Road) but they are the exception, not the rule. Companies this big have generally tight deadlines and have to follow them, there's no "it'll come out when it's ready".
This could be taken as dismissing legitimate concerns where there are areas for improvement and saying "Yeah well whatever". Not that it was the intent obviously but I can see how people would react.
However I think that the following posts do it well
Luciferian wrote: I personally love the sculpts and the overall aesthetic they went with, and I'm annoyed at the lack of customization but I'm used to converting things. The pricing is a bit much for me to justify being "all in" on this release, though. I was originally going to buy all of my army as genuine NIBGW product so I could play it at the GW store or wherever I wanted to, but I'm inclined to cut some corners now.
I really like this post as it has a nice balance of positive statements and legitimate, specific, negative criticisms without making them an absolute statement of fact.
I also really like the following:
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's strange that that a vehicle that has, essentially, Dreadnought weapons wasn't given a few other Dread-like options. I mean, looking at theHelbrutesprues shows off how simple the weapons are.
Given all GW can do with CAD, it's bizarre that they'd release something so option-less.
It states an opinion and explains WHY they are upset with a specific outcome. They do not imply a judgement of others who dont value what they are looking for, nor are they insulting the preferences of other individuals who actually are more than satisfied with what they are getting.
We also have to recognize that people have a very different approach to how they value money and other aspects of their purchase. A dollar is not always worth a dollar and what people expect for that dollar is very different. It is impossible to make a factual objective comparison between the value of two things that applies to more than the individual specifically.
Now obviously there are individuals in here who feel entitled to gak on everyone elses parade and boo on you for disagreeing with their right to be a gakhole. But remember no one is entitled to a response from you and no one is entitled to having their opinion read. If you are tired of the negativity just block those who are consistent in reducing your enjoyment of the hobby. I have a solid 5-10 people that I have just blocked over the years and I find that I have a much better experience. I have been on here for nearly a decade and there are only that many that have reached that level.
Back on topic I agree I am kind of disappointing with some of the options that are denied to chaos players simply by virtue of them not having the same extensive range of options that have historically been available to Regular marines. As a DG player and a Deathwatch player it is kinda annoying.
However I am really happy that GW is making progress, releasing faqs quickly and other things. The fact that we have a FAQ before the entire range is out is amazing to me.
Galas wrote: I'm pretty sure at this point that when The Khorne Berzerkers, receive a new kit, they will pass from 12-man box to a 8-man box and from 31€ to 45€!
Maybe, but they will be beefed up to eleven!!!
I hope that the EC come first, because I´m interested in how GW will picture their debauchery.
Galas wrote: I'm pretty sure at this point that when The Khorne Berzerkers, receive a new kit, they will pass from 12-man box to a 8-man box and from 31€ to 45€!
Maybe, but they will be beefed up to eleven!!!
I hope that the EC come first, because I´m interested in how GW will picture their debauchery.
GW picturing their debauchery? With a 6-man box of course.
Galas wrote: I'm pretty sure at this point that when The Khorne Berzerkers, receive a new kit, they will pass from 12-man box to a 8-man box and from 31€ to 45€!
Maybe, but they will be beefed up to eleven!!!
I hope that the EC come first, because I´m interested in how GW will picture their debauchery.
GW picturing their debauchery? With a 6-man box of course.
Well yeah, the other 4 models will be their female sisters sex slaves duh! /s
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: THX Warhams-77 for the overview. B2 aka "the frogman" is my favourite.
I may add:
EDIT: Forget it, that is D2.
Edit: You meant the Terminator?
That's a nice helmet. I read somewhere on Disqus that people found 12 different PM chest plates in the photos but I dont know if that is actually correct. 9 would be okay, too
@Warhams77: Nah, I meant the PM in the centre. I haven´t recoginzed him on the other pics, till posting.
Also I would dig six man/shemale EC box with breastplates showing 1 to 6 breasts. Feels about right for them. I hope the guys in pink and red get a full new range, like the puke and ash boys.
But for now lets see wen we get the hauler and when the demons are released. Also this year there will be no HH box, so maybe they will bring something else, to benefit from the christmas sales.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: Also this year there will be no HH box, so maybe they will bring something else, to benefit from the christmas sales.
I figure they'll have necromunda to cover that?
Is it due for the end of the year? After Shadespire I have no idea, what they will release. Nurgle demons are coming, maybe this year, mabe next.
Is there a schedule somewhere?
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: Also this year there will be no HH box, so maybe they will bring something else, to benefit from the christmas sales.
I figure they'll have necromunda to cover that?
Is it due for the end of the year? After Shadespire I have no idea, what they will release. Nurgle demons are coming, maybe this year, mabe next.
Is there a schedule somewhere?
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: THX Warhams-77 for the overview. B2 aka "the frogman" is my favourite.
I may add:
EDIT: Forget it, that is D2.
Edit: You meant the Terminator?
That's a nice helmet. I read somewhere on Disqus that people found 12 different PM chest plates in the photos but I dont know if that is actually correct. 9 would be okay, too
Looking through the codex I found 12-14 Helmets too, not including bare heads
TheWaspinator wrote: I'm probably going to just use Mark III marines as plague marines. All I need is some extra plasma guns and I'm pretty much set.
I've been thinking about how the plastic MkIIIs could be integrated, but straight from the box they won't match the fancy new PMs. I'm really curious to see the parts breakdown of the PM box, and hopefully things like the chest plates or torsos will be broken down such that they can be mashed with the MkIIIs. If nothing else, I'm hoping to get an extra box of the Easy Builds and spread those parts into the mix to get 10 guys out of a PM box.
Anyone have any other ideas for conversion bits? I've ordered the Putrid Blightkings arms and some various chaos heads. What are some other bits that would match for shoulder pads and arms?
TheWaspinator wrote: I'm probably going to just use Mark III marines as plague marines. All I need is some extra plasma guns and I'm pretty much set.
I've been thinking about how the plastic MkIIIs could be integrated, but straight from the box they won't match the fancy new PMs. I'm really curious to see the parts breakdown of the PM box, and hopefully things like the chest plates or torsos will be broken down such that they can be mashed with the MkIIIs. If nothing else, I'm hoping to get an extra box of the Easy Builds and spread those parts into the mix to get 10 guys out of a PM box.
Just buy Dark imperium plague marines at half the price so you don't need to kitbash pieces that aren't the same scale or that look totally out of place.
TheWaspinator wrote: I'm probably going to just use Mark III marines as plague marines. All I need is some extra plasma guns and I'm pretty much set.
I've been thinking about how the plastic MkIIIs could be integrated, but straight from the box they won't match the fancy new PMs. I'm really curious to see the parts breakdown of the PM box, and hopefully things like the chest plates or torsos will be broken down such that they can be mashed with the MkIIIs. If nothing else, I'm hoping to get an extra box of the Easy Builds and spread those parts into the mix to get 10 guys out of a PM box.
Just buy Dark imperium plague marines at half the price so you don't need to kitbash pieces that aren't the same scale or that look totally out of place.
Or just get one and one
How many plague marines do you really need. how many could you realistically fit in a list anyway.
Luciferian wrote: Anyone have any other ideas for conversion bits? I've ordered the Putrid Blightkings arms and some various chaos heads. What are some other bits that would match for shoulder pads and arms?
I built 2 mace + axe guys using the Chaos Knight but you have to carve the weapons. I love the Blightkings weapons because they are already corroded.
I kept the Fly head for the tallyman when I will buy it; I will find a bird head for the Plague Doctor.
Luciferian wrote: Anyone have any other ideas for conversion bits? I've ordered the Putrid Blightkings arms and some various chaos heads. What are some other bits that would match for shoulder pads and arms?
I built 2 mace + axe guys using the Chaos Knight but you have to carve the weapons. I love the Blightkings weapons because they are already corroded. I kept the Fly head for the tallyman when I will buy it; I will find a bird head for the Plague Doctor.
Some might not agree with this, but using a small drop of plastic glue and a pin vice actually can make for a really nice corrosion effect. The plastic glue makes the area around it a bit weaker and as you drill through, it kind of "mixes" with the remaining plastic to really mess with it in a cool effect.
Luciferian wrote: Anyone have any other ideas for conversion bits? I've ordered the Putrid Blightkings arms and some various chaos heads. What are some other bits that would match for shoulder pads and arms?
I built 2 mace + axe guys using the Chaos Knight but you have to carve the weapons. I love the Blightkings weapons because they are already corroded.
I kept the Fly head for the tallyman when I will buy it; I will find a bird head for the Plague Doctor.
Some might not agree with this, but using a small drop of plastic glue and a pin vice actually can make for a really nice corrosion effect. The plastic glue makes the area around it a bit weaker and as you drill through, it kind of "mixes" with the remaining plastic to really mess with it in a cool effect.
I "roughed" up with some green stuff, super thin layer, but this is simple and very smart. I have to try. Thanks.
How many plague marines do you really need. how many could you realistically fit in a list anyway.
This. One box, one easy build kit, and one set from the DI box is plenty. Going to grab one more DI bloat drone and one new kit for the weapons / headplate as well. It's an expensive release but it can be mitigated if you're smart.
Edit: how many times can I mix up bloat drones and plague drones.,....
How many plague marines do you really need. how many could you realistically fit in a list anyway.
This. One box, one easy build kit, and one set from the DI box is plenty. Going to grab one more DI bloat drone and one new kit for the weapons / headplate as well. It's an expensive release but it can be mitigated if you're smart.
Edit: how many times can I mix up bloat drones and plague drones.,....
What?
One box, an easy build kit and the Di box - 17 models? And you believe this, less than a full squad, is sufficient for the infamously Infantry heavy Death Guard?
I guess the theme is consistent - this release is perfectly fine so long as you ignore the last two decades of Death Guard background
How many plague marines do you really need. how many could you realistically fit in a list anyway.
This. One box, one easy build kit, and one set from the DI box is plenty. Going to grab one more DI bloat drone and one new kit for the weapons / headplate as well. It's an expensive release but it can be mitigated if you're smart.
Edit: how many times can I mix up bloat drones and plague drones.,....
What?
One box, an easy build kit and the Di box - 17 models? And you believe this, less than a full squad, is sufficient for the infamously Infantry heavy Death Guard?
I guess the theme is consistent - this release is perfectly fine so long as you ignore the last two decades of Death Guard background
Well it depends if you're going for a fluffy list or a practical list. I'm gonna get all the PM sculpts 19 unique with DI, snap fits and 7 man box + champ + Iconbearer. and then get on repeat which I'll heavily convert to be different to end up with a grand total of 20 PM's.
I suppose if you wanted to get an army of all PM infantry and didn't want repeat sculpts that would be an annoyance but between the 19 sculpts, and the loaded troops choices not to mention the whole rest of he codex, if you're taking much more than that you will be weak in another area, either less elites, less fast attack or less heavy support, which won;t bode well, as these are some of the best DG units.
I agree that it's a hassle, but I'm willing to work with it given how gorgeous all the models are.
I'll have a few units of PM in my games. Will buy 2-3 boxes and convert them to make them more unique. From what we've seen so far there should be a decent variety of chest plates / heads
a couple units of 7 with plasma guns and a unit of 14 Plague Marines - 2 Blight Launchers & rest with Axes and knives. Will advance up the field taking advantage of stratagems like Cloud of Flies and Blight Bombardment.
Well it depends if you're going for a fluffy list or a practical list.
But here's the kicker.
A fluffy list is now a practical list. The 'Trait' seriously supports running heavy amounts of infantry - 18 inch rapid fire, no penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or advancing and firing assault weapons? Yeah, that just screams to run footsloggers. If anything I feel like the bloat drones are a trap to be avoided.
But my issue with the PMs? Not the variety of the chest plates or whatever...but the fact they are literally FIXED into that position.
When legs and back are merged so that your only 'options' are arms (doubtless with moulded on shoulder pads ), heads and a chest plate....ugh. No. No no no.
And that's EXACTLY what the Blightlord Terminators are.
Sorry, that's not variety. That's barely above the snapfits from the starter sets. And yet they have us paying a premium for it. They have us at the same price mark as the plastic 30k stuff which is far superior. And that's just...ugh.
When your approach to the reasons behind not having a 10 man box is BUY THE 3 MAN SET FOR £5 less or BUY SNAPFIT STARTER MODELS then you've lost touch somewhere along the line.
RIPferdy wrote: Most armies would kill for all the kits/dark imperium options this army has
This thread man
Most people would want monopose kits with limited options for high prices?
GW should do things more like Infinty/Warmachine/X-Wing is probably the single most repeated theme on this board for the past 10-15 years or so (including SoB discussions).
broxus wrote: Looks like from the pictures there are 2 plasma guns in the kit. Lets hope there are 3.
Plasma isn't too hard to find and kitbash, though scale may be an issue now. What I'm more worried about is the unique options we won't find outside the kit.
RIPferdy wrote: Most armies would kill for all the kits/dark imperium options this army has
This thread man
You sure about this?
Do you really, really want substandard kits at prices above others for less?
Because this is what this is.
Average Tactical Marine - 10 components not including optional extras like purity seals, pouches or holsters.
Likely Plague Marine - 6 components, 7 if we're lucky.
Maybe you don't like having flexibility or customisation but...that's kinda been the core of Chaos since the word go.
So yeah, not touching these with a bargepole. Or the Blightlords or the Deathshroud.
FW kits and conversion kits will be the way forward.
You get 10 PMs for super cheap through the starter
3 for a good price through the add on
And then 7 ace looking ones through this!
I love my GSCs and appreciate the board game box they come in (talk about mono pose) and even like the 5 acolyte box and people on here are crying a river over this incredible release :/
We understood. For how many pages is this going to be continued? It has been brought up, everyone understood, discuss it elsewhere if you feel it hasn't been mentioned enough. There are more releases to come and I want this thread to be kept open for a while. Repeating that point ad infinitum is to provoke aggression in this topic which I am not going to accept.
You get 10 PMs for super cheap through the starter
3 for a good price through the add on
And then 7 ace looking ones through this!
I love my GSCs and appreciate the board game box they come in (talk about mono pose) and even like the 5 acolyte box and people on here are crying a river over this incredible release :/
Boy oh boy are your numbers wrong.
Through the starter you say? You get 7. Not 10. You get 7.
A snapfit intro box should NEVER be considered a mandatory or good idea to bulk out a collection. There's a reason they're snap fit and come on pre-coloured plastic. They're intro kits. Designed to get people started. Not supplement an existing army or compensate for odd numbers in a squad box. And that's what's being pushed here.
For a good price you say?
Back in second ed you got 5 monopose models for £5.
Now we have the choice of....
3 for £10 - one of which is a champion by default and one of which is a special weapon by default - sucks if you wanted alternative layouts, eh? Oh, and monopose.
3 for £25 - oh but these are resculpts of the DI plague marines - one is a special weapon by default too. Oh, monopose.
What a sad world we live in where people are just happy to roll over and accept sub-par sculpts and monopose standard as 'a good thing'.
Even more sad when you're willing to accept having to fork out £40 minimum for a 10 man squad which forces your squad composition by default and decry those who look at it, recoil in horror and decide to just use Mk IIIs or similar kits. I mean, hell, if you're telling me it's acceptable to drop £40 or £55 for 10 Marines...may as well buy a box of Mk IIIs and a DG Conversion kit from FW and have models that you can actually pose, get a variety of weapons with and get plenty of leftover bits to make further units look better.
Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
I think it's proabably got something to do with the fact that chaos players have had a dumpsterfire of a model line for years, so most of us have become so ingrained in the habits of kitbashing, part-swapping, converting, personalising, etc...that models that you just put together the one way, as they're supposed to be, by the book, and they look good - feels very odd and limiting to us
also, the lack of options and the high prices of the new kits, when we're used to fairly cheap, older kits, that usually had quite a lot of options - not as much as loyalist marines, granted, but still...
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
As someone who's assembled his first Skitarii Rangers three or four weeks ago I can say with confidence that the only reason I would ever buy more is because I want another Onager and the start collecting box includes some. The models that I built look nice, but there is precious little in the way of variety to be found so I have no incentive to assemble any more.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned this is a step backwards and, obviously, not something that started with 8th ed.
You get 10 PMs for super cheap through the starter
3 for a good price through the add on
And then 7 ace looking ones through this!
I love my GSCs and appreciate the board game box they come in (talk about mono pose) and even like the 5 acolyte box and people on here are crying a river over this incredible release :/
Boy oh boy are your numbers wrong.
Through the starter you say? You get 7. Not 10. You get 7.
A snapfit intro box should NEVER be considered a mandatory or good idea to bulk out a collection. There's a reason they're snap fit and come on pre-coloured plastic. They're intro kits. Designed to get people started. Not supplement an existing army or compensate for odd numbers in a squad box. And that's what's being pushed here.
For a good price you say?
Back in second ed you got 5 monopose models for £5.
Now we have the choice of....
3 for £10 - one of which is a champion by default and one of which is a special weapon by default - sucks if you wanted alternative layouts, eh? Oh, and monopose.
3 for £25 - oh but these are resculpts of the DI plague marines - one is a special weapon by default too. Oh, monopose.
What a sad world we live in where people are just happy to roll over and accept sub-par sculpts and monopose standard as 'a good thing'.
Even more sad when you're willing to accept having to fork out £40 minimum for a 10 man squad which forces your squad composition by default and decry those who look at it, recoil in horror and decide to just use Mk IIIs or similar kits. I mean, hell, if you're telling me it's acceptable to drop £40 or £55 for 10 Marines...may as well buy a box of Mk IIIs and a DG Conversion kit from FW and have models that you can actually pose, get a variety of weapons with and get plenty of leftover bits to make further units look better.
Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Im an avid death guard player and think the release was a bit disappointing in a few regards but on the most part i think we seriously came off on top the 3rd Primarch to be released who is an absolute beast a crap ton of cheap models from the DI box set new units left and right that are great and IMO look great and will be a pleasure to paint and play. We got our codex early in comparison to other people. Yeah there are drawbacks and im bummed that some models wont be playable as DG legion but can still be played.
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
As someone who's assembled his first Skitarii Rangers three or four weeks ago I can say with confidence that the only reason I would ever buy more is because I want another Onager and the start collecting box includes some. The models that I built look nice, but there is precious little in the way of variety to be found so I have no incentive to assemble any more.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned this is a step backwards and, obviously, not something that started with 8th ed.
That strikes me as an effective way to fight spam. Build in a disincentive to buying multiple kits. Probably not intentional on GW's part, but still a positive over all.
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
I think it's proabably got something to do with the fact that chaos players have had a dumpsterfire of a model line for years, so most of us have become so ingrained in the habits of kitbashing, part-swapping, converting, personalising, etc...that models that you just put together the one way, as they're supposed to be, by the book, and they look good - feels very odd and limiting to us
also, the lack of options and the high prices of the new kits, when we're used to fairly cheap, older kits, that usually had quite a lot of options - not as much as loyalist marines, granted, but still...
Furthermore, the Plague Marine sculpts are highly unique, as are the Blightlords. I would think the rangers/ruststalkers/infiltrators all look somewhat similar in a horde of machine-like men, but the Plague Marines - or any DG model for that matter - are so unique in their sculpt that when you start seeing multiples across the tabletop, they start to look strange. I think that is what has people frustrated about monopose and lack of customization. The Blightlords obviously suffer from this more than the upcoming Plague Marine kit though.
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
I think it's proabably got something to do with the fact that chaos players have had a dumpsterfire of a model line for years, so most of us have become so ingrained in the habits of kitbashing, part-swapping, converting, personalising, etc...that models that you just put together the one way, as they're supposed to be, by the book, and they look good - feels very odd and limiting to us
also, the lack of options and the high prices of the new kits, when we're used to fairly cheap, older kits, that usually had quite a lot of options - not as much as loyalist marines, granted, but still...
Furthermore, the Plague Marine sculpts are highly unique, as are the Blightlords. I would think the rangers/ruststalkers/infiltrators all look somewhat similar in a horde of machine-like men, but the Plague Marines - or any DG model for that matter - are so unique in their sculpt that when you start seeing multiples across the tabletop, they start to look strange. I think that is what has people frustrated about monopose and lack of customization. The Blightlords obviously suffer from this more than the upcoming Plague Marine kit though.
So its come full circle. Years ago people wanted in the starters and such to be unique posed minis. So GW did that, and in dark imperium, made all the DG models pretty unique. And now if someone sees the same model, their little brain explodes. I mean, even if the models were 100% pose able kits like old marine kits, there is not a lot of variations you get. You will 100% have the same looking guys. Just cause one bolter arm is slightly higher doesn't make it different from another.
I have 2 boxes of blightlords, and I don't see the problem. Yea, there is 2x of the bodies and legs, but I stuck arms all over and none of them match arms to bodies. That was super easy to do. 10 unique blightlords
If people want it really different, grab a knife and greenstuff.
What im having a hard time is understanding what timmys are complaining so much? Ones that want to fully customize their guys poses to how they see fit, but wont take the time to use a knife and greenstuff? You take all the time to build them how you want, sooooo?
Or maybe its all the old tank beards that cant handle change?
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
As someone who's assembled his first Skitarii Rangers three or four weeks ago I can say with confidence that the only reason I would ever buy more is because I want another Onager and the start collecting box includes some. The models that I built look nice, but there is precious little in the way of variety to be found so I have no incentive to assemble any more.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned this is a step backwards and, obviously, not something that started with 8th ed.
That strikes me as an effective way to fight spam. Build in a disincentive to buying multiple kits. Probably not intentional on GW's part, but still a positive over all.
If only I could believe it was effective.
Seems more like it disproportionately affects modelers like me who focus on making their models look individually good from building a fluffy army (you know, one with plenty of grunts as the core and not just an assembly of random stuff) as that entails having carbon copies or spending so much time on conversion that the army never gets finished. As opposed to power gamers who only see game pieces and couldn't care less what they look like in detail.
So yeah, I beg to differ on this being a positive development.
My only problem is that the Death Guard Plague Marines come in a 7-man box for the same price as many others 10-man marine boxes. And yeah, I know that Sternguard are 5 for 10€ more than a Tactical box, but even being beautifull and highly customizable those are still highly overpriced.
I think they will have a good enough number of variety. Yeah, they will have fixed poses in legs and backpacks. But the front part of the chest, the head, and the arms, if they have enough variety, can work good enough.
My problem with newer kits is not as much as the variety in poses, but how lacking in "customizable" bits they are. The tactical marine box is full of purity seals, knives, guns in holsters, grenades, etc... all those little details that add to customize your army. But many kits today lack those kind of extra bitz. They give you the weapons of the squad, the base options to build the guy, probably a variety on heads and shoulders, and thats it. (For example SoS)
But even with all the little nitpicks (Ones more important than others) that this release has had at least for me personally, I'll rate it with a 8/10. Is the biggest release that GW has ever done for a new army, full of kits and models. I don't give it a 9 because from "teaser" to the final of the release we have been waiting for nearly 1 year. And even the full release of the range has been nearly 2 months. Too slow.
Galas wrote: My only problem is that the Death Guard Plague Marines come in a 7-man box for the same price as many others 10-man marine boxes. And yeah, I know that Sternguard are 5 for 10€ more than a Tactical box, but even being beautifull and highly customizable those are still highly overpriced.
I think they will have a good enough number of variety. Yeah, they will have fixed poses in legs and backpacks. But the front part of the chest, the head, and the arms, if they have enough variety, can work good enough.
My problem with newer kits is not as much as the variety in poses, but how lacking in "customizable" bits they are. The tactical marine box is full of purity seals, knives, guns in holsters, grenades, etc... all those little details that add to customize your army. But many kits today lack those kind of extra bitz. They give you the weapons of the squad, the base options to build the guy, probably a variety on heads and shoulders, and thats it. (For example SoS)
I do wonder if they want to murder the bits market. Looking at what they posted about the IG does not look like, but...
That strikes me as an effective way to fight spam. Build in a disincentive to buying multiple kits. Probably not intentional on GW's part, but still a positive over all.
As stated above, some army works better with copypasted mooks. See scions, they look like Imperial Stormtroopers (SW) in that sense, and it fits perfectly.
I the "repeated individuality" that can be annoying (but one can convert and the army list does not give so much leverage to deploy too many PMs, regardless what our beloved design team planned*).
* I am building a reasonable number because of the weapon options and the conversion ideas, though
I'm pretty sure that GW has not "master evil plan" to combat any of that. And I don't believe that they even have a plan for no-models/no rules because even with that they are highly inconsistent.
To be honest, I think thats the biggest problem with all of this. How highly inconsistent they are with their policy. Some times you have a strict nomodel=no rules (Deathwatch characters), other times don't. Some times they release highly customizable and cross-compatible kits, others times they don't, etc...
Thats the reason I'm not flipping the table with DeathGuard, about how this "surely means that they are gonna kill customization. They are declaring war agains't 3rd party bitz-sellers". Nah. Probably after DG they'll release a more normal army that will be ultra customizable and cross-compatible, like they did with Genestealer Cultists. It is just totaly random.
ouch. my wallet seems to have had a bad head-on collision with a GW re-seller...turns out I'm a big-time sucker for a ~25% discount ...just ordered the plague surgeon, the tallyman, a bloat drone kit, and bloody 3 plagueburst crawlers...all things that I was probably going to leave until later, due to GW charging a bit too much for me to be comfortable with...
...also, it's beginning to dawn on me that, while going into this merely planning on adding a few bits and bobs to my current death guard army...I really am just starting a new army, aren't I?...sneaky bastards...they got me
Galas wrote: My only problem is that the Death Guard Plague Marines come in a 7-man box for the same price as many others 10-man marine boxes. And yeah, I know that Sternguard are 5 for 10€ more than a Tactical box, but even being beautifull and highly customizable those are still highly overpriced.
I think they will have a good enough number of variety. Yeah, they will have fixed poses in legs and backpacks. But the front part of the chest, the head, and the arms, if they have enough variety, can work good enough.
My problem with newer kits is not as much as the variety in poses, but how lacking in "customizable" bits they are. The tactical marine box is full of purity seals, knives, guns in holsters, grenades, etc... all those little details that add to customize your army. But many kits today lack those kind of extra bitz. They give you the weapons of the squad, the base options to build the guy, probably a variety on heads and shoulders, and thats it. (For example SoS)
But even with all the little nitpicks (Ones more important than others) that this release has had at least for me personally, I'll rate it with a 8/10. Is the biggest release that GW has ever done for a new army, full of kits and models. I don't give it a 9 because from "teaser" to the final of the release we have been waiting for nearly 1 year. And even the full release of the range has been nearly 2 months. Too slow.
I dunno. these guys seem to be a bit bigger, and far far far more complicate than baby smooth marines.
But not than Rubric Marines. And yeah, I know Deathwatch Kill Teams are 29€ for 5, so 58€ for 10. But those are arbitrarely overpriced too. At this point Tzeentch will be not only the Chaos God of Hope and Magic but too of "Lower prices". Their AoS models are too cheaper than their Khorne or Nurgle equivalents, or offer you better value, or both But well. DeathGuard plague marines will end like Genestealer Cultists Acolytes. An arbitrarly overpriced box of pretty models.
Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Perhaps you missed all the articles in various WDs over the years about why the move to plastic was a good move - it being a medium that allowed them to create more dynamic and complex sculpts with the new tech they've gotten as well.
And perhaps you've somehow overlooked the fact that when your production capabilities change to allow for more dynamic and complex miniatures stepping back to the same mono-pose sculpts that you HAD to do some 20 odd years ago because of limitations as a choice isn't just sub-par, it's border level moronic.
Any hey, ever notice that as those other companies' tech and capabilities increased and improved their sculpts changed as well, becoming more dynamic or fluid?
Or how about the fact you're now trying to compare people buying metals from several years ago to people buying plastics TODAY from a company that has openly boasted how plastic and improved production methods means they can have more dynamic sculpts?
str00dles1 wrote: Just curious, but do all the people that hate the "mono pose marines" also hate the skitarii kit? I don't remember people freaking out about that. Its mono pose with bodies/legs. Pretty much the same with the weapons, though you get 3 heavy weapon options. Or the Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltraitors. Bodies and legs are all one pose, you get different weapon arms/heads as its a duel kit. Or the Electro Priests? Monopose. Tech Priest Dominus, yup mono pose.
As someone who's assembled his first Skitarii Rangers three or four weeks ago I can say with confidence that the only reason I would ever buy more is because I want another Onager and the start collecting box includes some. The models that I built look nice, but there is precious little in the way of variety to be found so I have no incentive to assemble any more.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned this is a step backwards and, obviously, not something that started with 8th ed.
That strikes me as an effective way to fight spam. Build in a disincentive to buying multiple kits. Probably not intentional on GW's part, but still a positive over all.
Isn't that the opposite of their business model though?
Bi'ios wrote: Are you seriously positing that their sculpts aren’t more dynamic and complex? I didn’t know that being multi-pose was a requirement there
yeah, I was gonna say...they seem like pretty complex sculpts to me!
...also, does anybody really want "dynamic" death guard?...just look at poor ol' typhus
Luciferian wrote: Anyone have any other ideas for conversion bits? I've ordered the Putrid Blightkings arms and some various chaos heads. What are some other bits that would match for shoulder pads and arms?
I built 2 mace + axe guys using the Chaos Knight but you have to carve the weapons. I love the Blightkings weapons because they are already corroded.
I kept the Fly head for the tallyman when I will buy it; I will find a bird head for the Plague Doctor.
Ooh nice idea! I am using a bunch of different heads as well, again mostly from the Blightkings kit. I can't wait to make a giant Nurgling marine! I also ordered Mk. III arms and shoulder pads, I hope they don't look out of scale.
Galas wrote: My only problem is that the Death Guard Plague Marines come in a 7-man box for the same price as many others 10-man marine boxes. And yeah, I know that Sternguard are 5 for 10€ more than a Tactical box, but even being beautifull and highly customizable those are still highly overpriced.
I think they will have a good enough number of variety. Yeah, they will have fixed poses in legs and backpacks. But the front part of the chest, the head, and the arms, if they have enough variety, can work good enough.
My problem with newer kits is not as much as the variety in poses, but how lacking in "customizable" bits they are. The tactical marine box is full of purity seals, knives, guns in holsters, grenades, etc... all those little details that add to customize your army. But many kits today lack those kind of extra bitz. They give you the weapons of the squad, the base options to build the guy, probably a variety on heads and shoulders, and thats it. (For example SoS)
But even with all the little nitpicks (Ones more important than others) that this release has had at least for me personally, I'll rate it with a 8/10. Is the biggest release that GW has ever done for a new army, full of kits and models. I don't give it a 9 because from "teaser" to the final of the release we have been waiting for nearly 1 year. And even the full release of the range has been nearly 2 months. Too slow.
I'd have a real hard time rating it anything but a 7/10
Galas wrote: My only problem is that the Death Guard Plague Marines come in a 7-man box for the same price as many others 10-man marine boxes. And yeah, I know that Sternguard are 5 for 10€ more than a Tactical box, but even being beautifull and highly customizable those are still highly overpriced.
I think they will have a good enough number of variety. Yeah, they will have fixed poses in legs and backpacks. But the front part of the chest, the head, and the arms, if they have enough variety, can work good enough.
My problem with newer kits is not as much as the variety in poses, but how lacking in "customizable" bits they are. The tactical marine box is full of purity seals, knives, guns in holsters, grenades, etc... all those little details that add to customize your army. But many kits today lack those kind of extra bitz. They give you the weapons of the squad, the base options to build the guy, probably a variety on heads and shoulders, and thats it. (For example SoS)
But even with all the little nitpicks (Ones more important than others) that this release has had at least for me personally, I'll rate it with a 8/10. Is the biggest release that GW has ever done for a new army, full of kits and models. I don't give it a 9 because from "teaser" to the final of the release we have been waiting for nearly 1 year. And even the full release of the range has been nearly 2 months. Too slow.
I think my biggest issue with it is that no matter how you get your Plague Marines, whether it's through the new box, DI, easy to build or a combination of all three, you will end up with all kinds of stuff you won't need or can't use and a weird number of actual marines. For example, you could buy the easy to build marines to supplement your DI ones with blight launchers - except you'll end up having a bunch of champions with power fists. In order to get a large squad of 20 PM you either have to buy the new box three times or combine it with a couple of DI/easy to build sets that will have to be converted. Not very convenient compared to just buying a couple of boxes and having all of the bits you need!
Thats my biggest problem Luciferian, with the fact that they are 7-man box (And the price of course).
I have the DI ones and the Easy to Build Ones. The double-champion problem, I have fixed it dividing them in two 5-man squads. But I'm sorry, as much as 7 is the sacred number of Nurgle, I just can't have squads that aren't "nice" numbers.
5-10-15-20-30. And 3 for some of the more heavy infantry or vehicle squads. Those are the only numbers I can run with my squads.
Don't ask me why, it just feel wrong to have a 8-man squad, or a 13-man squad, or other number.
And please Nithmusketeer, no more 7 jokes, I'm gonna die if I ear another one at this point!
I always have, and always will run my plague marines in squads of 7 - I don't care in the slightest that it's "sub-optimal" or "inefficient" - it's "right" dammit!
I also couldn't care in the slightest about tournaments, or any kind of more competitive style games, so there's that...
RIPferdy wrote: Most armies would kill for all the kits/dark imperium options this army has
This thread man
Most people would want monopose kits with limited options for high prices?
GW should do things more like Infinty/Warmachine/X-Wing is probably the single most repeated theme on this board for the past 10-15 years or so (including SoB discussions).
Simply not true, at least when it comes to copy the monopose or prepainted miniatures of these games. Pretty much everybody on dakka praise the multiparts plastic kits from GW. You can't take some comments made in a completely different context and apply it to another one, and think you've made a relevant point.
ZoBo wrote: I always have, and always will run my plague marines in squads of 7 - I don't care in the slightest that it's "sub-optimal" or "inefficient" - it's "right" dammit!
I also couldn't care in the slightest about tournaments, or any kind of more competitive style games, so there's that...
Like Galas, I can't bring myself to field weird numbers. A special weapons squad will always have 5 members etc. Only reason I'll change it up is if I happen to have the points to put in another guy and nothing else to spend them on.
Sorry Pappa Nurgle, I just can't! Those points for two extra bolter guys loafing about in each squad can be much better spent on new and exciting ways to spread disease.
We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
Mymearan wrote: Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Y'all need help moving those goal posts? They look heavy!!!
But "insert excuse why we need a 7 man box to fit wargear and no way a third sprue is possible" instead of a normal number of models that allow for easy list building.
In other news Wayland OF COURSE can't send me my Deathshroud and Blightlords yet, I only preordered with credit I got for them finally admitting they couldn't get me a Baneblade anymorw after 50 days. Yay.libb
H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
in case you're referring to me there, nah, I just like fielding them in 7's - I'd much rather the kit had 10 models, specially for that price! - if it was a 10-man box, I'd probably grab 2-3...but that price, for 7?...that made me just go pick up 2 more whole death guard halves of dark imperium off ebay, for only $20 more than 2 boxes of plague marines...
ZoBo wrote: I always have, and always will run my plague marines in squads of 7 - I don't care in the slightest that it's "sub-optimal" or "inefficient" - it's "right" dammit!
I also couldn't care in the slightest about tournaments, or any kind of more competitive style games, so there's that...
Nah, is not about competitive.
For example, when I set the volume in TV, I always go for pair numbers. For example, I will never, never, let the volume in the TV at 31, or 17, or 43. I don't know why, but it just feel wrong. I have the same problem with the number of dudes in my squads
H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
OR some people just aren't that bothered that there are seven models in the box, and are reacting because of instances of hyperbole?
To me, needing all your units to be in multiples of 5 is pretty weird, but if that makes people happy then more power to them. I'm not going to accuse them of lunacy just because they have a different perspective on their hobby. So long as they have fun it's all good.
Perhaps you missed all the articles in various WDs over the years about why the move to plastic was a good move - it being a medium that allowed them to create more dynamic and complex sculpts with the new tech they've gotten as well.
As far as Marine models are concerned, DG are fairly dynamic and all of them are most certainly (perhaps sometimes overtly) complex sculpts.
So I´m the only one to have magnetized the easy-to-build dudes, so I can take off and switch the powerfist, knife and blight launcher?
I will alo magnetize my PM box, to be able to switch to the CC variants.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
Mymearan wrote: Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Y'all need help moving those goal posts? They look heavy!!!
Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of?
Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design....
I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh?
Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade...
Oh well.
Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
OR some people just aren't that bothered that there are seven models in the box, and are reacting because of instances of hyperbole?
To me, needing all your units to be in multiples of 5 is pretty weird, but if that makes people happy then more power to them. I'm not going to accuse them of lunacy just because they have a different perspective on their hobby. So long as they have fun it's all good.
You are having fun, right?
To be honest as I said, if the 7-man box was costed at 30€ instead of 40€, so they where nearly 70% the price of the Rubric Marines box, I'll have 0 problems. Yeah, I'll need to buy more boxes to field the number of dudes in my squads that I want, But at least I would not feel that, I'm being overcharged for it.
But I'm not presenting this a some kind of objetive fact. Some people find the price for the GSC Acolyte box appropiate. For me, they are overpriced, and I know that is because of their point-cost and rules. My opinion is only mine, and normally I avoid buying products that make me feel "bad" after buying them. When I buy something I wan't to feel that I have receive a great or at least good value for my money. Other people will have other standards, and thats fine.
Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of? Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design.... I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh? Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade... Oh well. Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
OR some people just aren't that bothered that there are seven models in the box, and are reacting because of instances of hyperbole?
To me, needing all your units to be in multiples of 5 is pretty weird, but if that makes people happy then more power to them. I'm not going to accuse them of lunacy just because they have a different perspective on their hobby. So long as they have fun it's all good.
You are having fun, right?
To be honest as I said, if the 7-man box was costed at 30€ instead of 40€, so they where nearly 70% the price of the Rubric Marines box, I'll have 0 problems. Yeah, I'll need to buy more boxes to field the number of dudes in my squads that I want, But at least I would not feel that, I'm being overcharged for it.
A perfectly reasonable criticism. its when words like 'defend' get thrown around that I get confused. This isn't a moral question. It's not like some people are saying it's OK for GW to make new models out of babies or something. Some people just aren't bothered by the price per model and some are. The reasons vary, but someone not being bothered by fewer models doesn't make them guilty of lunacy.
You know what would be better than 10 models in the box?
11.
And you know what would be even better than that?
12.
Also, it would be even better if the set came with a jet pack.
The problem with internet discussions is that they normally end in two sides. And when every poster has different opinions that may have similarities, in many cases all of them have differences and nuances that are lost when one poster responds, not to other posters but to their "Side" of the discussion.
I have never accused anyone of "defending" GW, guilty of lunacy, or being like a wife in a toxic relationship with their husband as some posters have exemplify the relation of customers with nu-GW. I have been talking all the time about my personal perception of the fact that theres 7 marines in the box instead of 10.
And yeah, 12 marines and a jet-pack could be ultra cool, but as a GW product, probably the jetpack would be monopose
You know what would be better than 10 models in the box?
11.
And you know what would be even better than that?
12.
Also, it would be even better if the set came with a jet pack.
Ah, the ever shifting goalposts.
The reason 10 is the number in question here is because GW operates, for the most part, in multiples of 5.
Our closest units for comparison (both CSM and SM) come in multiples of 5. Sure, there are some oddities in GKs and DW but they tend to have an insane amount of options (and aren't horrid fixed leg to torso models either).
So the number 7 is an oddity. A questionable oddity when its being priced at similar 10 model points and when the sculpts are being called into question.
An in response to people claiming the new Plague Marines are....dynamic.
When 3/7 legs have the exact same stance and the only difference is one has spikes, one has a skull on the knee and one has chainmail instead of cloth...that's not dynamic.
That's the opposite of it. I've seen people arguing that the Thousand Sons are monopose - uh...not really. When you consider that the torsos are seperate and they mix really well with the Mk IV Marines I've seen some bloody amazing and fluid Thousand Sons stuff out there.
But these DG? No, they won't mix well with anything. They've done such a job of isolating the range from its cousins that it's unreal. It's as though they are actively deterring cross kit compatibility...and these are the same people posting on WarCom and harping on about having bits boxes.
As warharms-77 as said, and even I did in other threads or sites sites, personally I'll drop the 7-man box topic. I think I made my opinion clear enough, and theres a point where reasonable criticism becomes boring, repetitive and even pointless!
Galas wrote: As warharms-77 as said, and even I did in other threads or sites sites, personally I'll drop the 7-man box topic. I think I made my opinion clear enough, and theres a point where reasonable criticism becomes boring, repetitive and toxic!
Entitlementis a very subjetive value, so no, I don't like to use it. Personally, I believe that theres a point where a topic just has run his course and bringing it back, again and again, in a internet discussion, don't offer anything more to people.
Nobody is gonna move their position and for 3rd readers, the discussion will grow boring and they'll just ignore it or stop reading the threat.
But you are right, toxic is a very strong word, I'll correct that.
There is an 8-page DG article in Oct WD which hasnt been posted online afaik, I will scan and post it later tonight. It's an enjoyable read. There is also a heavily converted grot rebel army from Maxime Pastourel in the issue. It would not be too far fetched that after his DG project was in Warhammer Visions ca. 14 months ago and we got all these DG models now that we will see new Ork buggies in a year or so. The Ork MekGun was designed by him already.
Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of?
Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design....
I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh?
Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade...
Oh well.
Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
Not lying at all, it just appears you havent built the kit. I've built three of those kits, and they are functionally monopose. You have control over the sorceror, head direction and general lift of the gun, as well as 2 options for guns.
They're not anything but pretty models.
Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of?
Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design....
I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh?
Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade...
Oh well.
Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
Not lying at all, it just appears you havent built the kit. I've built three of those kits, and they are functionally monopose. You have control over the sorceror, head direction and general lift of the gun, as well as 2 options for guns.
They're not anything but pretty models.
Pretty sure for the most part people think of mono pose as litterally snap fit one way one pose one head position kinda thing, like those marines in dark vengance.
the rubrics have options, asides from the torso and leg position, arms heads and weapons can be shifted around to make more variants.
personally ok with this consider how many marines do you really need hunching way forward or slouching to the side while holding their guns in a goofy way.
The rubrics are nice models but honestly after playing against them a couple times I couldnt describe any differences in their models they might as well be snap fit
Same with my non-snap for vs. snap fit GSCs, I mean I call tell the difference between all of them cause they are my kids, but yeah
[spoiler]Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of?
Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design....
I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh?
Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade...
Oh well.
Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
Not lying at all, it just appears you havent built the kit. I've built three of those kits, and they are functionally monopose. You have control over the sorceror, head direction and general lift of the gun, as well as 2 options for guns.
They're not anything but pretty models.
It's funny, when I made the same point about the Space Marine Tactical Squad awhile back. I was shouted down because the tilt of the gun was an example of multi-pose.
Galas wrote: Entitlementis a very subjetive value, so no, I don't like to use it. Personally, I believe that theres a point where a topic just has run his course and bringing it back, again and again, in a internet discussion, don't offer anything more to people.
Nobody is gonna move their position and for 3rd readers, the discussion will grow boring and they'll just ignore it or stop reading the threat.
But you are right, toxic is a very strong word, I'll correct that.
Oh, I was being sarcastic. Considering how many people have called those who are critical of GW entitled.
There are a lot of gw fans that simply don't care about getting fleeced by higher prices for no good reason. I remember many being okay with dire avengers doubling in price as well.
So when the last models hit stores this largely 'Stop Liking What I Don't Like' thread gets locked, yeah? Because it stopped being News and Rumours a long while ago.
Kirasu wrote: There are a lot of gw fans that simply don't care about getting fleeced by higher prices for no good reason. I remember many being okay with dire avengers doubling in price as well.
People need to remember that if GW reboxed stormcast eternals from a 5man box to a 10 man box, lowering the price per model something like 45%, it was because people didn't buyed them and the feedback was mostly of them being very overpriced.
But to be honest, I think AoS is more open to those kind of "experimental" adjustments. GW knos that people will forgive them much more with 40k, because it has a stablished fanbase.
ZoBo wrote: in case you're referring to me there, nah, I just like fielding them in 7's - I'd much rather the kit had 10 models, specially for that price! - if it was a 10-man box, I'd probably grab 2-3...but that price, for 7?...that made me just go pick up 2 more whole death guard halves of dark imperium off ebay, for only $20 more than 2 boxes of plague marines...
Preferring to field them in squads of 7 is fine. My Death Guard army, prior to the DI stuff coming in, and ignoring Daemons, is made up of 7 units of 7 (1 Terminator, 4 Plague Marine, 2 Havocs). I have 2 units of 14 Plague Bearers as well.
So I don't mind 7-man units. I do mind GW selling me a 7-man box for the pice of 10 men. 9 is Tzeentch's sacred number, and they didn't sell 9-man boxes of Rubrics or Tzaangors.
Denny wrote: OR some people just aren't that bothered that there are seven models in the box, and are reacting because of instances of hyperbole?
It's not hyperbole. If the 7-man box cost less than the 10-man box then maybe it'd be fine. But it doesn't. It costs the same as the infantry boxes that other armies get, and they get 10 or more models in theirs. This is not right.
I liked the article. I suppose it is easy to miss little details that make these models good. Grrr... now I want to buy a thing of blightlords even though I have absolutely zero need for more nurgle terminators, outside needing to convert one to hold a flail...
There's nothing entitled about feeling ripped off at a7-man box costing as much as a 10-man box.
Galas wrote: People need to remember that if GW reboxed stormcast eternals from a 5man box to a 10 man box, lowering the price per model something like 45%, it was because people didn't buyed them and the feedback was mostly of them being very overpriced.
People also need to remember that they released the 5-man Primaris Marine boxes (which cost more than 50% of the 10-man Primaris boxes) soon after the 10-man ones, and that the Primaris sprues have 5 miniatures on them, meaning that it is likely the Primaris release was going to mirror the Sigmarine release, only the negative feedback of the expensive 5-man Sigmarine boxes caused them to rethink their plans and double the sprue-count in each box... then release the same rip-off 5-man boxes anyway.
I don't know how much the 5-man Primaris box cost in AUS or New Zealand, in Europe is 40€ for the 10 man and 25€ for the 5 man box (And Sternguard are 40€ for 5, *sigh*).
To be honest, I can understand the "You can buy them in bulk, or you can choose to buy less for a higher price per model but a less price overall".
The ideal should have been to release them in 5-man boxes for 20€, but alas.
Galas wrote: I don't know how much the 5-man Primaris box cost in AUS or New Zealand, in Europe is 40€ for the 10 man and 25€ for the 5 man box (And Sternguard are 40€ for 5, *sigh*).
To be honest, I can understand the "You can buy them in bulk, or you can choose to buy less for a higher price per model but a less price overall".
The ideal should have been to release them in 5-man boxes for 20€, but alas.
Here in the US, it's $35 for the 5 mans versus $60 for the 10 mans.
Wow the article was really interesting. You can really see how much attention was given to detail.
Model wise I think this has been a fantastic release. It's not perfect but nothing is, and it's still great. I think most players from other armies would kill to have such a wide range of extremely fluffy, unique and detailed models
While there is nothing wrong with discussion about prices its a great thing that in capitalism nobody is forcing you to buy something you dont like ...and that is perhaps the only relevant answer.
Where exactly did you find a ten man plague marine kit to base your argument off of?
Or are you just comparing to different kits? The Rubrics are monopose, the primaris kits are pretty stale in terms of design....
I guess you just see it all as plastic volume A compared to plastic volume B huh?
Despite this clearly not being how GW has operated for the last decade...
Oh well.
Seriously, the only reason I bother checking these forums anymore is for actual news and rumours. The only other content here is people whining.
Not lying at all, it just appears you havent built the kit. I've built three of those kits, and they are functionally monopose. You have control over the sorceror, head direction and general lift of the gun, as well as 2 options for guns.
They're not anything but pretty models.
Pretty sure for the most part people think of mono pose as litterally snap fit one way one pose one head position kinda thing, like those marines in dark vengance.
the rubrics have options, asides from the torso and leg position, arms heads and weapons can be shifted around to make more variants.
personally ok with this consider how many marines do you really need hunching way forward or slouching to the side while holding their guns in a goofy way.
The rubrics were pretty good, IMHO. If you chop off the top of those tabbards they become much more poseable.
Glumy wrote: While there is nothing wrong with discussion about prices its a great thing that in capitalism nobody is forcing you to buy something you dont like ...and that is perhaps the only relevant answer.
"Relevant". Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means.
To chip in the discussion. I don't know the amount of bits in the 7 man Plague Marine box, but that it will be overpriced is a fact.
Take the 5-man Blight Guard Terminator box for instance; according to the GW homepage it contains 69 pieces, retail at € 45.
Now compare it to some other Terminator Boxes;
- Grey knights 5 man Terminator box; 153 pieces, retail € 36
- Space Wolf 5-man Wolf Guard Terminators; 100 pieces, retail € 36
While there is also a difference between the Grey Knights and Space Wolves in bits, the difference in price is ridiculous regarding Death Guard dudes.
I suspect the Plague Marine box will also contain less parts as other kits, maybe even less parts with 7 dudes as compared to 10.
I ordered the Blight Lords and special characters regardless, I can justify for myself the size difference and I don't need that many Termies. I will pass on the Plague Marine box as my Betrayal at Calth/Spellcrow/MaxMini hybrid marines are sufficient (and much cheaper) as well as better scaled with the rest of my army.
Low_K wrote: Take the 5-man Blight Guard Terminator box for instance; according to the GW homepage it contains 69 pieces, retail at € 45.
Now compare it to some other Terminator Boxes;
- Grey knights 5 man Terminator box; 153 pieces, retail € 36
- Space Wolf 5-man Wolf Guard Terminators; 100 pieces, retail € 36
Low_K wrote: Take the 5-man Blight Guard Terminator box for instance; according to the GW homepage it contains 69 pieces, retail at € 45.
Now compare it to some other Terminator Boxes;
- Grey knights 5 man Terminator box; 153 pieces, retail € 36
- Space Wolf 5-man Wolf Guard Terminators; 100 pieces, retail € 36
Blood Angel Assault Terminators are 76 pieces.
Scarab Occult - for a unit with virtually zero options beyond heavy weapons and sorcerer layout.... over 80 pierces.
So how the hell does a kit for a unit with MORE options than either of these two 'new' boxes you've given as comparison....have less pieces?
Low_K wrote: Take the 5-man Blight Guard Terminator box for instance; according to the GW homepage it contains 69 pieces, retail at € 45.
Now compare it to some other Terminator Boxes;
- Grey knights 5 man Terminator box; 153 pieces, retail € 36
- Space Wolf 5-man Wolf Guard Terminators; 100 pieces, retail € 36
Blood Angel Assault Terminators are 76 pieces.
Scarab Occult - for a unit with virtually zero options beyond heavy weapons and sorcerer layout.... over 80 pierces.
So how the hell does a kit for a unit with MORE options than either of these two 'new' boxes you've given as comparison....have less pieces?
The logic here is astounding.
It's not the piece count or sprues. It's the "Class" of models. These are terminator class, which are now at the 70 CAD pricepoint (see Deathwing Terminators). This is how GW introduces pricehikes now; old kits of the same class remain at the same price. New kits in the same class gets the new price.
Primaris Marines are at that price because they're considered the same class as the basic Stormcast Eternals.
As a new player, everytime I come to this thread I get depressed. This has to be the saltiest no-hype zone. I don't mind reading about various complaints people might have, but there is literally nothing else other than that for last 20 pages. Isn't anyone here excited about a single thing? It's a brand new army, with a new primarch. Most of the sculpts are awesome. Yes, there a few stinkers, just like there are in every faction in every game. Yes, some of the stuff is stupidly overpriced (bloat drones), but when has GW stuff ever been a good deal financially? Still think this army is awesome. I've had a great time painting up all the new stuff I've bought. The faction feels complete with multiple options, and not a substandard mini-faction type release. I think there is a lot to be excited about. The only two things I find dumb are the bloat drone kit and PM box. Luckily enough, I can bypass that stupidity by buying starter sets instead.
Mugaaz, the life-cicle of a thread is like in alchemy. growth, transformation, and then decay.
This thread is in the "decay" phase where all news and excitement has leave the thread and the only thing that remains is posters arguing with each other for pages, and pages, and pages
Personally I am delighted with the miniatures, I am happy with the codex it is just the slow release and some of the prices (Deathshroud, bloat drone, Plague marines) that have been a bit of a downer.
We knew the likely price point of single character/elite blisters but the Blight Drones and Plague Marines are just too damned expensive. I fear the same for the Blight crawler and to be truly effective you need three of them, if they are the £30 price point like the drone then a £90 unit is daft.
That said I have painted up the Nurgle part of Dark Imperium and await my two Plagueburst Crawlers and Tallyman at the weekend. Seriously if this thread depresses you just keep away, news wise this release is nearly done.
Galas wrote: Mugaaz, the life-cicle of a thread is like in alchemy. growth, transformation, and then decay.
This thread is in the "decay" phase where all news and excitement has leave the thread and the only thing that remains is posters arguing with each other for pages, and pages, and pages
My favourite bit of the decay phase is when people appoint themselves honorary mods and decide to start policing which opinions are allowed or not.
Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Perhaps you missed all the articles in various WDs over the years about why the move to plastic was a good move - it being a medium that allowed them to create more dynamic and complex sculpts with the new tech they've gotten as well.
And perhaps you've somehow overlooked the fact that when your production capabilities change to allow for more dynamic and complex miniatures stepping back to the same mono-pose sculpts that you HAD to do some 20 odd years ago because of limitations as a choice isn't just sub-par, it's border level moronic.
Any hey, ever notice that as those other companies' tech and capabilities increased and improved their sculpts changed as well, becoming more dynamic or fluid?
Or how about the fact you're now trying to compare people buying metals from several years ago to people buying plastics TODAY from a company that has openly boasted how plastic and improved production methods means they can have more dynamic sculpts?
Nope. I'm comparing it to the myriad of companies that are not GW, who still make metals today, and all the people who buy them... including myself. Monopose allows for far more interesting and dynamic sculpts. I'm tired of people seeing multi pose models as being objectively better and something that everyone should strive for, when they're far from it. Calling mono-pose models "sub-par" in a dogmatic fashion is extremely silly.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: We still have people defending a box that has 7 models for the price of 10.
This is lunacy.
Mymearan wrote: Yes, all those people who have been buying monopose metals from... basically every miniature company ever since time immemorial, what a sad world they live in. Everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par".
Y'all need help moving those goal posts? They look heavy!!!
On the subject of sculpts, it's interesting to see people wholly embrace kits like the Blightkings, which are basically all monopose models that must use certain arms etc. Those sculpts are amazing and you still have a lot of different things you can do with the kit, but you just can't mess around with the poses much without some pretty heavy conversions. I'm personally fine with that kind of kit because, as mentioned above, it allows the artists to really make some interesting and evocative models, even though it doesn't leave as much room for customization. I would personally prefer a kit like that to your standard multipart kit where everything is interchangeable, but the poses are mostly static and the only real options you have are the degree of rotation you put on the hips, shoulders and necks.
Galas wrote: Mugaaz, the life-cicle of a thread is like in alchemy. growth, transformation, and then decay.
This thread is in the "decay" phase where all news and excitement has leave the thread and the only thing that remains is posters arguing with each other for pages, and pages, and pages
My favourite bit of the decay phase is when people appoint themselves honorary mods and decide to start policing which opinions are allowed or not.
That's better than skirting around Rule 1 with tangential digs, or crashing the thread into another Antipodean pricing whinge.
Galas wrote: Mugaaz, the life-cicle of a thread is like in alchemy. growth, transformation, and then decay.
This thread is in the "decay" phase where all news and excitement has leave the thread and the only thing that remains is posters arguing with each other for pages, and pages, and pages
My favourite bit of the decay phase is when people appoint themselves honorary mods and decide to start policing which opinions are allowed or not.
Yeah, thats part of people arguing with each other page after page
I'm not really a fan of the nurglings and gut mouths thrown everywhere.
I am also not a fan of the limited customization the new kits have.
I do like the new tank but i lost the use for the 3 Vindicators i already run.
Mortarion and Typhus are slowly growing on me, i really do not like the smoke and flies all over the place.
I wish they would do a vehicle upgrade kit with some bells and tanks i could stick on other vehicles i already own.
Overall this release has been a real turn off for me, so much i strongly selling my entire FW converted army.
The aesthetics go in a goofy direction that make the models almost comical, which is a stark contrast to Khorne which is as Grim Dark as you can get.
There are some parts of this release that got me really excited but then i was really let down by what GW came up with.
It is a good thing FW has lots of 30k Death Guard models or 30k models that could be converted to make up for some of these silly looking models.
I am really torn on Mortarion.
While i like having a Death Guard daemon primarch in plastic, i feel like he is really overpriced $$-wise for what we get.
I feel like for the same price or maybe slightly more we could have something like a Plague Tower of Nurgle or a Nurgle Contagion Engine. Just my thoughts.
I will also agree that a 7 man squad with less customization or options being priced the same as a 10 man squad with more of both is not cool.
Modelling is part of the hobby and i hope Primaris and Death Guard's build it one way models are NOT the norm in the future.
Mugaaz wrote: Yes, some of the stuff is stupidly overpriced (bloat drones), but when has GW stuff ever been a good deal financially?
When Apoc first was released some of the Apoc army formations were incredible deals.
Luciferian wrote: On the subject of sculpts, it's interesting to see people wholly embrace kits like the Blightkings, which are basically all monopose models that must use certain arms etc. Those sculpts are amazing and you still have a lot of different things you can do with the kit, but you just can't mess around with the poses much without some pretty heavy conversions. I'm personally fine with that kind of kit because, as mentioned above, it allows the artists to really make some interesting and evocative models, even though it doesn't leave as much room for customization. I would personally prefer a kit like that to your standard multipart kit where everything is interchangeable, but the poses are mostly static and the only real options you have are the degree of rotation you put on the hips, shoulders and necks.
Myself, I suggested the Blightkings as a source for conversions. They are a goldmine of nurgle bits, I build up like, 2 Champions, 2 mace +axe, 3 axe + knife PM, 1 Plague cleaver, and there will be more. I also used 3 heads for the helmets and there will be more again.
People that love more "fleshy" DG and keep all the gubbinz and tentacles on their PM could probably use the bodies but don't take my word for it.
I am using, too, chaos knight weapons and the marauders for the flail (still to be built), but that will need way more effort.
Galas wrote: Mugaaz, the life-cicle of a thread is like in alchemy. growth, transformation, and then decay.
This thread is in the "decay" phase where all news and excitement has leave the thread and the only thing that remains is posters arguing with each other for pages, and pages, and pages
My favourite bit of the decay phase is when people appoint themselves honorary mods and decide to start policing which opinions are allowed or not.
So true. Nothing more annoying than those who play pseudomods and ask for a thread to be closed. If the thread annoys you, you can simply stop posting in it.
That's better than skirting around Rule 1 with tangential digs, or crashing the thread into another Antipodean pricing whinge.
But that is not what happens. What happens is people giving examples for why they feel a price is a ripoff, and the answer is some ridiculous "you only need 7 anyway". Lol no. What happens is people disliking the monopose or the aesthetic and being given false equivalencies ("we used to have monopose" - lol no, what I do see is not what I expect from the current technology).
The problem is that there is a good number of posters that cannot accept that people can have a partially or fully negative opinion on something and that such opinion is not a personal attack toward those who like such something. As if there is only the expectation of praise and nothing else when a new model is released. This is preposterous. I cannot understand unless there is some serious shilling going on (don't think so) or the sculptors themselves post in Dakka (unlikely as well).
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Glumy wrote: While there is nothing wrong with discussion about prices its a great thing that in capitalism nobody is forcing you to buy something you dont like ...and that is perhaps the only relevant answer.
Discussing the prices is, too, discussing the health of the hobby. Same with the rules. If you price/annoy people out of the hobby, we will have less players to play with and GW less revenue etc.
Yes I am aware of the growth of the last year but tides turn. WHFB should have shown us something.
Low_K wrote: Take the 5-man Blight Guard Terminator box for instance; according to the GW homepage it contains 69 pieces, retail at € 45.
Now compare it to some other Terminator Boxes;
- Grey knights 5 man Terminator box; 153 pieces, retail € 36
- Space Wolf 5-man Wolf Guard Terminators; 100 pieces, retail € 36
Blood Angel Assault Terminators are 76 pieces.
Scarab Occult - for a unit with virtually zero options beyond heavy weapons and sorcerer layout.... over 80 pierces.
So how the hell does a kit for a unit with MORE options than either of these two 'new' boxes you've given as comparison....have less pieces?
The logic here is astounding.
These numbers mean gak when you don't look at what's on the sprues.
Scarabs have a cowl that doesn't add any "extra" to the options. 6 pieces there.
The shoulder pads are separate. That's 10 more.
64 Scarabs vs 69 DG
Wolf Guard have 12 shoulder pads, 5 tassels, 7 extra heads, and 12 pieces of iconography or generally things that were modeled on the DG. That puts them at 64. Granted the extra heads are nice.
The GK kit has some real value, because of the gakload of weapons, but still has some 50+ pieces that don't change the dynamic for me.
GW made sculpts that are a cut above in style and that came with a trade-off. I'm certain we'll see kits have fewer of the "extras" and I personally am not concerned. I can understand if others are, but this changes nothing for me and lots of others.
The 7 man kit for PG is crap i'll give you, but I still want to see what they put on those sprues to justify it.
NAVARRO wrote: So for a deathguard army how many plaguemarines are people on average going to get?
Has anyone made an estimate of how much a DG army would cost with these new kits?
7 marines, 20 PW, a drone, and a few characters to cut up - $65
20 more PW - $40
7 more marines - $50
5 termies - $60
3 haulers - $150 (assuming)
2 more drones - $100
2 crawlers - $130
3 characters - $75
$670 (about $555 with 20%) before Mortarion and Deathshroud. I don't think i'd ever do more than a couple squads of marines though a big blob with all the support and buffs you can toss does sound tempting.
Glumy wrote: While there is nothing wrong with discussion about prices its a great thing that in capitalism nobody is forcing you to buy something you dont like ...and that is perhaps the only relevant answer.
"Relevant". Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I see that you don't either. Hilarious that you come in and correct someone else in such a manner and are blatantly wrong.
Relevant
- closely connected or appropriate to what is being done or considered.
- appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances; of contemporary interest.
Synonyms - synonyms: pertinent, applicable, apposite, material, apropos, to the point, germane; connected, related, linked; on-topic
Please put more thought into your posts next time you want to talk down to someone.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I see youre from Australia so english is your first language. What synonym would you use then?
"Fitting" ? "Appropriate" ?
Se above. What a joke.
On topic, I'm not getting more then 20 plague marines right now. I love them but they aren't the most competitive troop choice right now so moderation is key.
Very good point but if you did buy the DI half that would look like:
Mortarion - $140
Typhus - $40
Biologus - $25
Tallyman - $25
7 PM - $50
1 easy-build PM set - $15
1 easy-build poxwalker set (additional 6) - $15
1 Bloat Drone - $50
1 DI Bloat Drone - $25
3 PBC - $195
1 DI set - $65
Total - $645
You'd walk away with 26 poxwalkers, 17 plague marines (I don't think its safe to buy many more right now but you could get a second easy-build if you wanted 20), and an extra Plaguecaster, Lord of Contagion, and Noxious Blightbringer from it. You could even go cheaper if you convert the Lord to Typhus and got all 3 plague drones from the DI set. Then, buying them from a place like thewarstore.com you would save an additional $52 from the list I mentioned totaling at 593. Still expensive but with smart shopping you can get that cost down.
NAVARRO wrote: So for a deathguard army how many plaguemarines are people on average going to get?
Has anyone made an estimate of how much a DG army would cost with these new kits?
I think it depends if you have a clear role for them or you want to be sure that this time you will deploy 5-10 shooty ones next time 7-20 choppy ones. If, say, you know you will only use 1 unit of 5-7 with 3 plasma, that's about it.
Myself I am enjoying converting and I want variety so they will be way more. Still undecided on the ripoff-box, that will be a 0-1 instead of the 2-3 planned.
Very good point but if you did buy the DI half that would look like:
Mortarion - $140
Typhus - $40
Biologus - $25
Tallyman - $25
7 PM - $50
1 easy-build PM set - $15
1 easy-build poxwalker set (additional 6) - $15
1 Bloat Drone - $50
1 DI Bloat Drone - $25
3 PBC - $195
1 DI set - $65
Total - $645
You'd walk away with 26 poxwalkers, 17 plague marines (I don't think its safe to buy many more right now but you could get a second easy-build if you wanted 20), and an extra Plaguecaster, Lord of Contagion, and Noxious Blightbringer from it. You could even go cheaper if you convert the Lord to Typhus and got all 3 plague drones from the DI set. Then, buying them from a place like thewarstore.com you would save an additional $52 from the list I mentioned totaling at 593. Still expensive but with smart shopping you can get that cost down.
Oh, for certain. That's more what I'm doing myself.
1/2 Dark Imperium - $80
2x 1/2 Know No Fear - $65
Another 7 DIPM - $27
Various conversion bits - $30
Which leaves me with 3 Lords of Contagion, one of which is destined to become Typhus; 1 Plaguecaster and 1 Blightbringer; 24 Plague Marines including the bits to give them a bunch of bubotic axes, flails and blightlaunchers; 40 Poxwalkers; and 3 Blight drones. All for $200.
Glumy wrote: While there is nothing wrong with discussion about prices its a great thing that in capitalism nobody is forcing you to buy something you dont like ...and that is perhaps the only relevant answer.
"Relevant". Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I see that you don't either. Hilarious that you come in and correct someone else in such a manner and are blatantly wrong.
Relevant
- closely connected or appropriate to what is being done or considered.
- appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances; of contemporary interest.
Synonyms - synonyms: pertinent, applicable, apposite, material, apropos, to the point, germane; connected, related, linked; on-topic
Please put more thought into your posts next time you want to talk down to someone.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I don't think that word means what you think it means.
I see youre from Australia so english is your first language. What synonym would you use then?
"Fitting" ? "Appropriate" ?
Se above. What a joke.
On topic, I'm not getting more then 20 plague marines right now. I love them but they aren't the most competitive troop choice right now so moderation is key.
It’s not the only relevant answer though, I think it HBMCs point. Everyone’s points have been - appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances; of contemporary interest. and pertinent, applicable,. Not agreeing with them doesn’t mean they aren’t relevant.
Mugaaz wrote: As a new player, everytime I come to this thread I get depressed. This has to be the saltiest no-hype zone. I don't mind reading about various complaints people might have, but there is literally nothing else other than that for last 20 pages. Isn't anyone here excited about a single thing? It's a brand new army, with a new primarch. Most of the sculpts are awesome. Yes, there a few stinkers, just like there are in every faction in every game. Yes, some of the stuff is stupidly overpriced (bloat drones), but when has GW stuff ever been a good deal financially?
Pull up a chair, young'un, and let me spin you a yarn about the good old days, when you could get 30-40 models in a box for a mere 30 dollars, or 5 metals crammed into a blister for less than $10.
But as far as Nurgle sculpts go... these new ones... eh. Like 'em or don't like 'em, it's a very different aesthetic (and scale) to the Nurgle models that had been in play. Some look like they were aimed at the old Realm of Chaos aesthetic, but the limitations of their CAD design program (or the designers, not sure which) makes them too chunky and cute to pull that off.
AM I the only one who's dissapointed that they haven't released a poxwalker box? Always hate when an unit is only availble in a starter sert or boxed game (chaos cultist, GC aberrant).
Mugaaz wrote: As a new player, everytime I come to this thread I get depressed. This has to be the saltiest no-hype zone. I don't mind reading about various complaints people might have, but there is literally nothing else other than that for last 20 pages. Isn't anyone here excited about a single thing? It's a brand new army, with a new primarch. Most of the sculpts are awesome. Yes, there a few stinkers, just like there are in every faction in every game. Yes, some of the stuff is stupidly overpriced (bloat drones), but when has GW stuff ever been a good deal financially?
Pull up a chair, young'un, and let me spin you a yarn about the good old days, when you could get 30-40 models in a box for a mere 30 dollars, or 5 metals crammed into a blister for less than $10.
But as far as Nurgle sculpts go... these new ones... eh. Like 'em or don't like 'em, it's a very different aesthetic (and scale) to the Nurgle models that had been in play. Some look like they were aimed at the old Realm of Chaos aesthetic, but the limitations of their CAD design program (or the designers, not sure which) makes them too chunky and cute to pull that off.
there's a few models that I really like, but overall, I think they went too far with the ''cute'' aspect. Some of these models seems like they were taken straight out of monster inc.
ZoBo wrote: I always have, and always will run my plague marines in squads of 7 - I don't care in the slightest that it's "sub-optimal" or "inefficient" - it's "right" dammit!
I also couldn't care in the slightest about tournaments, or any kind of more competitive style games, so there's that...
Nah, is not about competitive.
For example, when I set the volume in TV, I always go for pair numbers. For example, I will never, never, let the volume in the TV at 31, or 17, or 43. I don't know why, but it just feel wrong. I have the same problem with the number of dudes in my squads
I feel the same way. I’ve gotten round it in my HHDG by brining a 20 man squad with an attached character.
streetsamurai wrote: AM I the only one who's dissapointed that they haven't released a poxwalker box? Always hate when an unit is only availble in a starter sert or boxed game (chaos cultist, GC aberrant).
Don't mention the easy to build kit...
I won't pretend it's a good solution, but the "Know No Fear" box(the $80 Starter Lite set) has the same Poxwalkers from the starter, but in 10s and green plastic instead.
Also has basic Plague Marines, Bloat Drone, and Lord of Contagion.
My wild guess would be someting along the lines of like 3 x10 plague marines would be the average? For me at least that would be the sweet spot.
DI would give you 7 unique models plus the 3 from the easy to build would sort your first 10.
Add 3x PM multipart boxes would cover the rest and probably enough for you to have considerable different unique sculpts.
The back bone of your army is done and you can build around that depending on your tastes.
Some termis a couple crawlers and couple drones £175
Typhus, blightspawn, morty and bodyguard £160
Half DI with all nurgle bits set £50
That is £385 frp and then add the 3 PM boxes… Its not cheap but not outrageous for so many nice sculpts.
There's no doubt that these kits are expensive and that there is less variety in the kits then you might like. In terms of design the paint jobs definitely play up the cutesy element.
We have already seen paint jobs that make them look much more grotesque.
As for the price smart shopping will get you these models at a much less expensive price. As someone who lives in Japan which is both one of most expensive places to buy GW minis and a place where the word discount does not seem to exist, I am gobsmacked when anyone in America talks about paying rrp. It is so easy to get a discount of at least 15% there.
The dark imperium half is readily available on eBay both collectively and individually.
I am also convinced that there will be a start collecting box in the next six months or so. (and a primaris one)
2 dark imperium halves would make a very decent core to an army especially if you have some converting skills.
One box of plague marines would bring you up to 21 marines total and give you some bits for conversions.
That would give you enough points for some games while you wait for a start collecting box or a battleforce.
Aside from the Nurglings, I don't get what's so cutesy about them. Nor do I mind them being cutesy, personally. They're similar to the Blightkings in that they're a mishmash of everything that's come to represent Nurgle (and Chaos in general) in the past. You've got pitted and corroded Mark III armor, most of which is exactly like that seen on the Mark III marines except roughed up and bulked out. You've got the squicky tentacle and mutation bits just like a lot of other CSM kits such as the Chosen. You've got cracked armor and mysterious tubes just like the orignal Plague Marine models. Then you've got things which are basically direct copy and paste jobs from the Blightkings, such as the antler type growths and several of the heads. None of that strikes me as a massive departure from the past - more like it's mashing them all together in a greatest hits compilation.
Now throw in the Nurglings, rictus grins and flies and that's pretty cheeky, cutesy stuff. But Grandfather Nurgle is a god of joy, after all!
Well, at least it's easy to get rid of the less dour details. What are some ideas you have about how they could have been done differently? Anything specific you would change?
If anyone really wants PLAINgue Marines there's the plastic Mk IIIs, Green Stuff and weathering techniques. Easy to do something to your taste this way and cheaper to boot.
A box of Prospero and you've the core of a force, customisable to your liking but visually linked to the new releases.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Y'all need help moving those goal posts? They look heavy!!!
I think you quoted the wrong post.
Sure didn't.
Your point was arguing that mono-pose is no big deal, and that everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par". This is of course nonsense, and I can't think of anyone who's actually said that. As a lot of us has been saying from the start GW's plastic technology is so good that multi-pose option-filled kits are kinda the norm now - the expectation - so when they seem to go backwards in functionality (not aesthetic, the DG minis look fantastic) yet charge the same price is irks some of us. Then when they do this and reduce the amount of miniatures in the basic troop boxes, it's the rotted plague filled straw that broke the Foulspawn's back.
Raphael the Raven wrote: I see that you don't either. Hilarious that you come in and correct someone else in such a manner and are blatantly wrong.
That whooshing noise you're hearing is the sound of my point sailing waaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
The person I quoted made the "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" argument, which doesn't really answer the points that are being made, hence it not being a -relevant- argument. "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" doesn't address the fact that it's a 7-man box for the price of 10 or that, more confusingly, there are people here defending that as a good thing.
Raphael the Raven wrote: Please put more thought into your posts next time you want to talk down to someone.
Luciferian wrote: Well, at least it's easy to get rid of the less dour details. What are some ideas you have about how they could have been done differently? Anything specific you would change?
Is a matter of subtlety. Most of the elements of the models are what one expects from CSM, but is the proportions chosen that for someone are "off". I suppose is essentially the style of the sculptor. I doubt that this is technical limitations. Is deliberate - you cannot tell that the guy is bad, is excellent, but for some is not the right "tone". Is the exact same thing that people that love one illustrator and hate another, or just think one illustrator is perfect/terrible for the tone of a specific comic/book/gamebook.
Myself, I trim the marines (adjusting as an example the proportions between the spikes and the body, and making them slightly less busy) and remove the nurglings (since they are cute, I move them to different bases so I can use them as tokens) and I am ok with the tone if I use a different, darker paintjob and creepier lights for goggles and such. In my case, I keep the "fat/bloated" aspect of the marines and I am ok with that. Nurgle is more a "Dawn of the Dead" than "A Nightmare in Helm Street", so to say. Is a fine line but I see why for many can be troublesome.
JohnnyHell wrote: If anyone really wants PLAINgue Marines there's the plastic Mk IIIs, Green Stuff and weathering techniques. Easy to do something to your taste this way and cheaper to boot.
A box of Prospero and you've the core of a force, customisable to your liking but visually linked to the new releases.
See above (but for the same reason, for some this could be an extremely useful suggestion, for others completely useless. I think you did the right thing bringing it up).
I could make another example: I am painting a retrieved old FW Dreadnought of Nurgle (BTW, to my delight, I discovered there is another hull type I have still to hunt and find) and I noticed that even if I always loved that model, is very busy. Why I loved this one and I am overwhelmed by the untrimmed Plague Marines? Again, is proportions. The pustules and spikes are omnipresent but kept small. They do not distract from the main features like the Helmet, weapons and such. In this way FW obtained a model that is full of detail but not too busy, and a sensible paint scheme seals the deal (if someone wants to enhance the features, is a paintjob choice). The model IS rich and full of small details like a nurgling on top, but you have to look for it, they don't rub it on your face. To me this is a sign of a more mature and skilled sculptor, albeit the resin and studio style could have a big role, I suppose.
Kaiyanwang, if you have already converted some models I'd love to see pictures. I would also like to see any Mark III Plague Marines, as JohnnyHell suggested. I really enjoy seeing different people's takes on the miniatures with a subject like DG, where there's so much room for creative license.
Luciferian wrote: Kaiyanwang, if you have already converted some models I'd love to see pictures. I would also like to see any Mark III Plague Marines, as JohnnyHell suggested. I really enjoy seeing different people's takes on the miniatures with a subject like DG, where there's so much room for creative license.
I am actually planning a WIP blog or something to give some contribute to Dakka more than whining so yes is going to happen. I am trying, too, to mix Walkers with skitarii and exhaust bits to create more biomechanical zombies. I move every 2-3 years in another part of the globe and my only camera is my phone so I hope the quality will be decent.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Y'all need help moving those goal posts? They look heavy!!!
I think you quoted the wrong post.
Sure didn't.
Your point was arguing that mono-pose is no big deal, and that everything must be multipose plastic or it's "sub-par". This is of course nonsense, and I can't think of anyone who's actually said that. As a lot of us has been saying from the start GW's plastic technology is so good that multi-pose option-filled kits are kinda the norm now - the expectation - so when they seem to go backwards in functionality (not aesthetic, the DG minis look fantastic) yet charge the same price is irks some of us. Then when they do this and reduce the amount of miniatures in the basic troop boxes, it's the rotted plague filled straw that broke the Foulspawn's back.
Raphael the Raven wrote: I see that you don't either. Hilarious that you come in and correct someone else in such a manner and are blatantly wrong.
That whooshing noise you're hearing is the sound of my point sailing waaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
The person I quoted made the "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" argument, which doesn't really answer the points that are being made, hence it not being a -relevant- argument. "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" doesn't address the fact that it's a 7-man box for the price of 10 or that, more confusingly, there are people here defending that as a good thing.
Raphael the Raven wrote: Please put more thought into your posts next time you want to talk down to someone.
Backatcha big boy.
We get it, its bad and everyone who likes it is wrong. We would be nowhere without you to tell us how unbelievably gakky GW releases are, why we might even be enjoying the hobby completely oblivious to how miserable we were.
NAVARRO wrote: My wild guess would be someting along the lines of like 3 x10 plague marines would be the average? For me at least that would be the sweet spot.
DI would give you 7 unique models plus the 3 from the easy to build would sort your first 10.
Add 3x PM multipart boxes would cover the rest and probably enough for you to have considerable different unique sculpts.
The back bone of your army is done and you can build around that depending on your tastes.
Some termis a couple crawlers and couple drones £175
Typhus, blightspawn, morty and bodyguard £160
Half DI with all nurgle bits set £50
That is £385 frp and then add the 3 PM boxes… Its not cheap but not outrageous for so many nice sculpts.
Not quite that much. Pulling an actual competitive list out of the army list section of this forum. Kurtces posted a 2000pt list that appears to be well received:
Edited down to just list units and model count:
Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [79 PL, 1506pts]
[HQ] Malignant Plaguecaster: DI Box
[HQ] Typhus $40/£25
[Troops] 10 Chaos Cultists $10 x 2/£6 x 2
[Troops] 10 Chaos Cultists $10 x 2/£6 x 2
[Troops] 7 Plague Marines DI Box
[Troops] 7 Plague Marines $50/£35
[Troops] 20 Poxwalkers DI Box
Total: +4CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [97 PL, 1876pts]
Assuming you can split a DI box, that comes to about $440/£300. Still not cheap, but not the level people are throwing out. Problem with these "new army" estimates that get tossed around, they are always cherry picked by one side or another to make the army look as expensive or cheap as possible and often are never actually pointed out. As for the DG box set, the seven man count is an annoyance, but the price isn't out the range of marine pricing. Would people be throwing the same fit if the box had be a 5 man kit for $35? There are numerous boxes at that price point. The box is 2% more per model than if it had been a 5 for $35. Would 5 for $40 been ok like assault marines or devestators?
The price is isn't great, but to act like it is some new low for GW is just hyperbole.
NinthMusketeer wrote: We get it, its bad and everyone who likes it is wrong. We would be nowhere without you to tell us how unbelievably gakky GW releases are, why we might even be enjoying the hobby completely oblivious to how miserable we were.
Where did say any of that? Where have I said that GW releases are "unbelievably gakky"? And yes, I would argue that everyone who likes the idea of 7 models for the price of 10 is wrong. How can one ever be happy about that?
But here's an idea for you Muskateer: Don't. Fething. Generalise.
I try to be rather specific with my comments, so my ire is directed at things in this release which are either less than they could be (Deathshroud) or things that are actually bad (7 models for the price of 10). I have stated time and time again what I like about this release, and other releases.
But, in case you missed it: I think this Death Guard release has been one of gross missed opportunities combined with a near-perfect aesthetic. The miniatures that we have received are simply breathtaking (and not in a "Help I'm choking on plague flies!" way). The new units (Drone, Plague Buggy and the Mortar) are incredible looking, the character models (other than the silly smoke-blowing sorcerer from DI) are incredible, and the new Plague Marines and especially the Terminators are fantastic. If there were any minis I don't like, it would be a couple of the stand alone characters and the Plague Zombies are a little too happy/jolly looking for my tastes, but that can be somewhat dealt with if you use a more drab colour scheme.
The actual releases have a few isses - the price for mono-pose miniatures and the reduction of 7 for 10 being the worst among them - and the rules leave a lot to be desired (with non-Nurgle units in a Death Guard Codex because no model/no rule).
I can take the good with the bad, and express both. If you want to generalise and just say "HMBCDVD always just hates things! OMG! Such a whiner!", then that's your deal. And also a bold-faced LIE.
NinthMusketeer wrote: We get it, its bad and everyone who likes it is wrong. We would be nowhere without you to tell us how unbelievably gakky GW releases are, why we might even be enjoying the hobby completely oblivious to how miserable we were.
Where did say any of that? Where have I said that GW releases are "unbelievably gakky"? And yes, I would argue that everyone who likes the idea of 7 models for the price of 10 is wrong. How can one ever be happy about that?
But here's an idea for you Muskateer: Don't. Fething. Generalise. ...
I can take the good with the bad, and express both. If you want to generalise and just say "HMBCDVD always just hates things! OMG! Such a whiner!", then that's your deal. And also a bold-faced LIE.
If I walked down a street and punched everyone I passed, would you consider me a needlessly angry person?
What about if instead I just punched every other person I saw? Would you still think of me as angry?
Because at least every other post of yours is complaining about GW.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The person I quoted made the "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" argument, which doesn't really answer the points that are being made, hence it not being a -relevant- argument. "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" doesn't address the fact that it's a 7-man box for the price of 10 or that, more confusingly, there are people here defending that as a good thing.
I see youre very emotional but in the end this argument is the most relevant. Its the most relevant because for the company as GW money is the most important factor. Now we as clients who might not agree to this pricing policy (and i never said i like it either) can say it out loud with our wallets by not buying these releases.
I dont know what was the reason behind less models for more cash. Perhaps it was because PM are already in the DI box so they didnt expect to sell many boxes anyway. Perhaps its an experiment so if they sell enough boxes that means clients are okay with less for more. Or perhaps due to the size of those models they count them as a true elite units like Sternguard. I can only suspect.
In the end if you dont agree to this policy you shouldnt buy this box. This is the best way to tell them that you dont agree with this.
The answer is simple and should be clear to everybody who has bought these kits for years. The ten-model sets like Tactical and Rubric Marines come with Bolters and a few special weapons, one heavy weapon and some Sergeant options. None of these have ever offered everything needed. Then we have Assault Marines and Devastators or elite choices like Sternguard with large parts of the space on sprues being used for additional weapon or equipment options. Another example is the Death Company Blood Angels kit, which comes with jump packs plus lots of other bits as well - but only 5 models. Like always GW calculated how many sprues they want to sell the kit with, taking long-time sales numbers into consideration, and decided to offer them as a 7-model set, with bolter + plague knife, optional assault weapons, several special weapons, some Sergeant options, the icon bearer option plus heads, chest and shoulder plates. They estimated the amount of sales and ended with this kit. These are rational considerations and not malignancy at work. GW offers nothing exceptionally different to what we are used to for years. I like the PM kit for what it is. If I wouldn't I just wont buy it, problem solved.
Nurgle CSM and Chaos Marines in general plus Orks have always been among the conversion-heaviest armies. I see tons of potential with the new kits. Look at what KrautScientist has done with the Dark Imperium DG models and you know the possibilities are infinite. Before even making use of the multipart PM kit.
That kits have pros and cons is understood by everyone. Vote with your wallet if you disagree with what is offered.
Fantasy Nurglites got three sprues for five models for less money, GW could have done the same for Terminators (!!!) of Nurgle (!!!) considering how relatively popular Nurgle CSN was in the last couple of editions. The Plagueburst Crawler feels pretty cramped with two sprues, too. And for PM, yeah, a ten man box with three sprues would've been nice.
The Devastators come with two each of several huuuuge guns, none of the PM gear needs as much space as those guns.
Personally, I will run squads of ten and maybe twenty, seven is fine for Chosen or Possessed where the sacred number thing is kinda cool and makes them extra special, but line infantry should come in strength.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That whooshing noise you're hearing is the sound of my point sailing waaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
The person I quoted made the "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" argument, which doesn't really answer the points that are being made, hence it not being a -relevant- argument. "No one's forcing you to buy it!!!" doesn't address the fact that it's a 7-man box for the price of 10 or that, more confusingly, there are people here defending that as a good thing.
Raphael the Raven wrote: Please put more thought into your posts next time you want to talk down to someone.
Backatcha big boy.
Right because your fail attempt to talk down to someone coming back to bite you is on me, not you. You're post didn't go over anyone's head nor was it as witty as you think it was. If you had taken issue with the phrase "only relevant" I'd actually be inclined to agree with you. Instead you completely missed the mark and said he didn't use the word relevant correctly, which he did.
The burden to accurately communicate your point is in you and while I understand what you're getting at, all you did was correct someone's English... incorrectly. The context of the argument has nothing to do with the definition of "relevant" or your attempt at correcting someone else for using it. If you can't grasp what's wrong with that post, I encourage you to look up the definition of relevant again, think about how it was used in that sentence and what the OP was trying to convey by using it, and come up with a more constructive way to disagree with said point.
Take a look at the way multiple people are replying to you and maybe reflect on that big boy .
On topic, since it seems like the plague marine pack will come with significantly more heads and arms then torsos and legs, I think some carefully planned casts of torsos and legs would be a good way to fix this without being obviously the same on the tabletop. I love the fact that the designers brought back all those different old school backpacks and am fortunate to have a few laying around. That'll give me a chance to try out these melee PM's everyone seems to like.
That kits have pros and cons is understood by everyone. Vote with your wallet if you disagree with what is offered.
Great point! That's exactly what my first thought was when I learned what the box contained. While I'm off put by having less then what we are used to numbers wise, if the sprues really have that many extra fixin's I'll be much happier with the purchase. In the end I'm still going to probably get a single box which is like a partial vote for me. If it had a few more bodies in he box and PM were slightly more cost effective on the tabletop I would vote more.
), heads and a chest plate....ugh. No. No no no.
