scipio.au wrote:
Hm.. last update was a week ago, so I presume Tre' is still working on the horses. While I'm not upset, the projected delivery date was now October, then "shipping by October", and now.. well, the Horses have to be cast first, right? As I said, observations. Only relevant in light of the fact that Tre seems to be dead set on starting the next KS in the middle of November (around next week). I dunno about many of the rest of you, but a week before Christmas isn't exactly the time when I'd be welcoming a big chunk of money coming out of the bank to pay for models. Tre seems quite worried about the KS well running dry, but with Reaper's earliest "ship dates" now 2 months on, Dreamforge looking to be 2-3 months late, Sedition Wars looking likely to be 1-2 months late, and his own RBG KS looking to be 1-2 months late from original projections.. and most of all, Christmas about to hit, both KS and IGG are dead to me until January at the earliest.

And even then only after I start to see some returns. The only things I'm thinking I might see this year now are a few figures from Mongoose (last update over 2 weeks ago) and Mantic's Dreadball (who might actually deliver, based on the KoW stuff going out on time).

But yeah, ending a Kickstarter a week or so before Christmas just doesn't seem that well planned to me. Especially given the slightly older demographic that seems to be going in on these will often have families that are going to take extra financial priority over (more) toys for ones' self at that point in the year.

Red Box Games is one of those companies where I don't mind a little delay because they are some of the best sculpts on the planet. Interestingly, I think RBG and other companies are finding out exactly how long production takes and I think the next rounds of KS over the coming year will have much more generous release dates/etc. In the meantime though I bought many RBG figures during his 40% off metals sale, so I'm sated for now (god these goblin miniatures are beautiful).

Did you see the recent Dreadball video? It's basically done at this point, from what I understand. Shipping in a few weeks? If Mantic makes their XMas deadline that makes them the most reliable Kickstarter company

I do agree that the next Red Box KS should honestly wait until at least a good portion of pledgers have gotten their product. Mantic for instance has a lot of goodwill with all those backers having gotten their first wave of Kings of War figures before launching the Dreadball one. But even Mantic should not even touch another KS until the first Kings of War one is totally done with all the stretch goals, etc.

It's your call of course, mate. But I for one (and my friends on another forum for a few others) really aren't up for it this time around. There may not be an "optimal" time, but I'd suggest that 2 weeks before Christmas is a pretty sub-optimal time for those of us who have families. In fact it's about as poor a choice of timing as you could choose.

I wish you the best of luck of course, but for my money, 2 weeks into January is a hell of a lot better than 2 weeks before Christmas.


Doug - I agree with what you're saying there as well.

 scipio.au wrote:
It's your call of course, mate. But I for one (and my friends on another forum for a few others) really aren't up for it this time around. There may not be an "optimal" time, but I'd suggest that 2 weeks before Christmas is a pretty sub-optimal time for those of us who have families. In fact it's about as poor a choice of timing as you could choose.

I wish you the best of luck of course, but for my money, 2 weeks into January is a hell of a lot better than 2 weeks before Christmas.


Doug - I agree with what you're saying there as well.

Scipio - I also agree with what you're saying there. Agreefest 2012.

Seriously, I love Tre's sculpts, but I don't think I'd be able to support another RBG Kickstarter - or ANY Kickstarter for that matter - until January. Even if RBG does another one, I probably won't be able to support more than a small token amount, no matter how much I'd want ALL the sculpts (like the last one where I supported at the highest level). We're approaching the time where the only frivolous purchases people can make are on stupid gifts to give to relatives you don't see or talk to for the rest of the year.

I guess time will tell!

If he launches in mid-November, can he be successful without the backing of scipio.au (plus his Legion of Friends from Another Forum.com) and judgedoug?!?

Yeah, hardy har. it's not a legion, but there's a few of us (half dozen or so?), and I'm sure we're only worth $5-600 based on the last one. (No idea what Doug put in) That's not really the point I'm making. Didn't you just buy a house? And I know you've got a family. Does 2 weeks before Christmas seem like the ideal time for you to be Kickstarting? (compared to, say January?)

That's more the point I'm making. We know Tre will make the first $5k or so within 24 hours. We know that. After that it might get tougher with those of us who have families unable to commit. Probably won't make a difference to single 24 year olds with jobs. Going in January would get the former in without losing the latter, since we know from several of the other campaigns that a 60 day campaign is too long and will stall badly.

Or to put it one final way. If I didn't really want Tre to be successful, I wouldn't give a gak or be posting this stuff here. I feel that a campaign ending so close to Christmas will lose out on a lot of potential pledges due to the time of year and people's priorities. he'd be better off putting together some Christmas set deals or something of new/existing stock (Cavalry! Zombiepocalypse!) that people can buy or drop hints to the wife, and have in hand before/for the big day - etc... A Christmas Sale for stuff now, not a Christmas pre-order Sale (delivered in Feb-March!)

Yeah, here's the thing, I will back RBG no matter what when he launches, like I did last time. But last time I was able to up my pledge to the maximum level and then some, to get the biggest pile of goodies possible. This time around, I don't know if that's possible. I'll need money for travel, gifts, food, nonsensical decorations, etc; and those are priority over RBG. So I will still have a pledge, but it'll probably be very low. Now, come January, I'll easily be able to afford to drop 200+ bones again.

Well from the KS comments

"Tre manor 3 days ago

the last of the oriignals will be goign to Ed on Monday. and I will be shippign orders as they are fillable. ED tells me that I shoudl have the wolves, Fenris, and the hordesmen next week. I mistakenly did nto send the weapons for the Varp in with the figures so the mould for that part has nto been made yet. That will eb a minor holdup on those. No tlong now though! "

and the first report of a reward being received (Tre has started shipping stuff for folk where he's got everything in their pledge back from Ed


"Dan Goodchild

Woo Hoo! Got my minis today! Tre, they are all kinds of awesome; thanks! Also, the art print is really cool."

What is wrong with the interenet? People have been receiving their stuff, but no unboxing vids/pics!

For shame, Dakka. For shame.

I'll post pretty pictures when mine arrive

(but as I went for the horsemen i'll need to be patient)

Hopefully someone in the US who didn't order horses will snap a few pics. You know who you are, Anonymous Dakka Lurker!

I've got wolves in my order, so I may or may not have them here by Christmas, based on previous RBG orders. Post seems to be quite slow from Tre's part of the country to AU. (And that's during the "normal" time of year...)

 scipio.au wrote:
I've got wolves in my order, so I may or may not have them here by Christmas, based on previous RBG orders. Post seems to be quite slow from Tre's part of the country to AU. (And that's during the "normal" time of year...)

Holy crap, that sucks. I usually get RBG orders within 2 days, and I'm on the east coast of the US. I've sent plenty of things to AU and it usually takes 2-3 weeks. I wonder why it would take so long for RBG stuff?

I've sent a number of things to Aus and the UK, and the time seems to vary greatly. My thought was that it depended on where they were in Aus/UK, since obviously I'm in the same spot, but I think it was also just a bit random...

US mail tends to run faster west to east. That may also apply to shipments to AU. I MIGHT be able to afford to ship packages in parts. I MIGHT be able to do that. IF it is possible I will start shipping everything but the horses next week and then the horses once they arrive. It all depends on the postage costs. Thus far they have been a little less than I anticipated but not by much. IF the margin is such that I can afford to ship the horses separately then that is what I will do but I cannot make any promises. I WILL have ALL packages shipped before Christmas though.

I am really very very sorry for these delays y'all.

Hey Tre,

I'm happy to wait for my horses (KS id is the same as here), so just go for one package for me & save on the costs

as to the delays, I'm fine with them as you've kept us up to date with all the ongoing work

Tre, have you considered going heavy on the Dverger (dwarfs) in your next Kickstarter, to coincide with the Hobbit movie mania?

Personally, I'm a bit less excited by the prospect of a kickstarter to turn your existing, 1-off sculpts into plastic, than one to introduce more ranked units.

The main thing that keeps me from diving into your range (other than a dislike for the current WHFB rules) is the fact that there's no way for me to make any single army from your range, and your range doesn't match up well with heroic scale ones.

Hence my suggesting Dverger- there will be a lot of LOTR dwarf sales going on, and you could get in on that since your range matches up so well with the LOTR stuff.

So your next campaign offering more units, and less single characters (or at least an even mix) for a few specific armies would be a much better idea than just making a bunch of single characters for a whole range of armies, imo.

I love RBG goblins more than any other goblin range. I _really_ hope the next KS reintroduces them and adds more new goblins.

He mentioned offering all the goblins as one big pack- seems like a good idea.

 RiTides wrote:
Tre, have you considered going heavy on the Dverger (dwarfs) in your next Kickstarter, to coincide with the Hobbit movie mania?

That would be excellent!

I know I'd like to see Tre do an army's worth of Dwarves...

I have really been wanting to get back to the Dvergr for a while and to the Njorn as well. I do have plans to put most of the force of the next KS into retooling the existing line but there WILL be new stuff in there as well. And not to worry the goblins are one of the first sets going up.

I am a bit conflicted as to whether to focus on one range at a time or just try to tool up as much as possible from as many different ranges within the line as possible.

We shall see.

If you want to redo multiple lines I would show everything with goals at the start of the KS so folk know what to expect

If you started with say Dverger and then suddenly 'sprung' Njorn on the backers folk who were expecting pure dwarves would get annoyed

If it was all out there this is less risk of this.

You should also take care to balance the new stuff for each faction you're supporting. Nothing will annoy backers more than if dverger & Njorn backers get new shiney stuff, but the goblin crowd get nothing....

maybe unlock something for each faction with each stretch, keep everybody happy

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Tre, have you considered going heavy on the Dverger (dwarfs) in your next Kickstarter, to coincide with the Hobbit movie mania?

That would be excellent!

I know I'd like to see Tre do an army's worth of Dwarves...

This! Take my money... why don't you like money

Regardless, I'll be watching closely! And likely pledging if there are ranked Dverger of a few types (say, ranged and combat, or heavy and light... or all 3 )

 judgedoug wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
I've got wolves in my order, so I may or may not have them here by Christmas, based on previous RBG orders. Post seems to be quite slow from Tre's part of the country to AU. (And that's during the "normal" time of year...)

Holy crap, that sucks. I usually get RBG orders within 2 days, and I'm on the east coast of the US. I've sent plenty of things to AU and it usually takes 2-3 weeks. I wonder why it would take so long for RBG stuff?

Not sure. It wasn't Tre being a slackarse or anything, as they were postmarked when he said he sent them but took 3-5 weeks from memory. I frequently get large boxes shipped from Austin that take 10-14 business days (usually 10), and my Miniature Market orders came in about the same time as well (tending towards the 14) from St.Loius. Stuff from NY tends to take about the same amount of time as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tre manor wrote:
US mail tends to run faster west to east. That may also apply to shipments to AU. I MIGHT be able to afford to ship packages in parts. I MIGHT be able to do that. IF it is possible I will start shipping everything but the horses next week and then the horses once they arrive. It all depends on the postage costs. Thus far they have been a little less than I anticipated but not by much. IF the margin is such that I can afford to ship the horses separately then that is what I will do but I cannot make any promises. I WILL have ALL packages shipped before Christmas though.

I am really very very sorry for these delays y'all.

I wouldn't get too stressed over it. When are the horses (and wolves?) due to get back to you?

 tre manor wrote:


I have really been wanting to get back to the Dvergr for a while and to the Njorn as well. I do have plans to put most of the force of the next KS into retooling the existing line but there WILL be new stuff in there as well. And not to worry the goblins are one of the first sets going up.

I am a bit conflicted as to whether to focus on one range at a time or just try to tool up as much as possible from as many different ranges within the line as possible.

We shall see.

I rather liked the picking and choosing for ranks/characters like the last one. It allowed me to get exactly what I want. If the next KS has lots of goblins and then dvergr and njorn, I would rather spend most/all of my pledge on the goblins (as I ignored the Aenglish last time around to get all Helsvkakt).

But that's just me and I don't know how much of a nightmare it is for you to do it that way

I should have the wolves next week.

3-5 weeks eh? Dammit.... I wonder hwy it takes that long from here?

It i san odd thing. I have SO many different ranges withint he line that I am havign a difficult time deciding whether to focus on one at a time or to just pull a " greatest hits " type of KS and then plug in the rest as it comes.

 tre manor wrote:


I should have the wolves next week.

Is that it then? Is everything else done and cast?

I am seriously so excited to get my stuff. I haven't been this psyched about painting a buncha stuff in a bajillion years.

Everything but cavalry, I think...

Yep everythign but the cavalry and the bits for the war staff.

Ah, gotcha. So the cav and warstaff are being finished sculpting basically? Then off to Ed to get cast?

Tre has said all the sculpting is done and everything should have been sent to Ed for master making and then casting

(he posted on the KS on 10th Nov that he was sending the last bits over to Ed on Monday)

And Ed (& Brian) were casting the stuff during their own KS, so hopefully they'll have it all off to Tre soon (baring problems)

well I got a nice big box of wolves yesterday and a few other odd bits so there will be even more packages goign out today. There seems to be a consistent problem with the Blutulf model and Ed informed me yesterday that the head of the musician shrank in the production mould so I have to resculpt the head and then that model will be remoulded. The first effort at the standard was not good so I started over. Other than that all sculptign is done and nwo it is just a matter of the moulds beign finished and corrected as needed.

For me now it is ON TO A NEW PROJECT!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Tre, pics of the finished horse / rider sculpts???

When I have the masters. The originals looked like hell with varying colours of grey and white clay and odd bits in green and brass and chrome.

Darn, I wanted to see them raw! But sounds good

Out of interest, are the T-Shirts done?

Yep. Wearing one right now in fact. ;o)

Pics!

A new update from Tre today

Hey Guys, sorry i have been so quiet....



OK right this minute the only complete sets that I have are the Aenglishmen, the Undead and the Wolves. Now the Wolves were originally intended to go on a 30 mm round base, BUT the 30mm rounds I ordered were lipped instead of the regular unlipped types so I sent them back. Now I am trying to decide between making my own pill bases or ordering woodcut pill bases to go with the Wolves.




I COULD base them on 40 mm rounds but they just don't look right. Other than those 3 sets I also have all of the lesser varp models, BUT no weapons for them. I have Morgrimn and COnradt's waiting poses but no warp forms yet. I have the keeper, Fenris, Whistelock, and Robert and Blutulf, BUT Blutulf has a quality issue with a mold line that runs along the forehead but caused a slight distortion of the head, so that is being fixed.




I am really VERY sorry for how long this is dragging out but Ed, Brian and I am all working very very hard to get this finished and RIGHT.

Thank you all for your patience with me on this. I assure you that there will be a rather large amount of packages going out next week as Ed informed me yesterday that he will be shipping the hordesmen, the weapons for the Varp and the Gynnade on Friday of this week.

Cheers Y'all,

Tre'

Anyone heard anything new from Tre' in the past 3 weeks? The above was the last I had heard...

There will be an update from tre coming tomorrow but all that's left is some work on the helrider moulds as far as I know. Ed Fortae (the caster) posted this in his own kickstarter's comments (alien assimilation):

Edward Fortae about 8 hours ago

This wee should be a good week and I'm crossing my fingers some of these armatures can become sculpts as well. I've been working toward making these all work best for the process as well as making them easy to mix and match for variety. Me and Brian are doing a quick quality change for Red Box and final touches on the horse masters this week so that is about coming to a close while I get more of a start on Impacts stuff.

I'm looking to hire another person as well if need be so we are looking now and also working all that into the budget etc. I know I've been slow but just trying to catch up for Tre as fast as possible we made a few changes for production to make the customers job easier and packing for Tre better as well.

Some of that is to do with his own kickstarter, and some to do with RGB.


Some folks have received their minis but no one has posted pics yet.

from what I understand anyone who ordered just stuff that didn't include the riders and a couple of the characters have already gotten stuff. couple of people have posted on the KS and RBG forums that they've gotten Aenglish and such.

The riders should be cast (or close to it) by now though, right?

I would assume so, I dunno. My hopes for a 2012 delivery are pretty much gone.

New update from Tre

Hey Everybody,

Again I apologize for the lack of updates recently. I am working very hard to QC, sort, bag, store, and ( where I can ) pack and ship the items as they arrive in hand. There was a significant set back in production. Ed used a new rubber type for the molds for several parts which had to be baked a higher temperature than what is normally applied. This caused a significant degree of shrinkage which made the parts I received unacceptable. Ed and Brian are currently working to correct the problem and get the new corrected castings to me as fast as possible. As far as I am informed Ed has already remade these molds and this week will be concentrating their efforts to get the Horses cast up and shipped to me. As soon as I communicate with Ed as to where we stand on each individual part.

I do very sincerely appreciate your patience with me on this. Ed, Brian, my Wife and I are all working very hard to get all of this sorted and fulfilled.

Cheers,

Tre'

"As far as I am informed all of the moulds are made except for a couple of the re-makes and the Horse riders which I had to correct as I left to much length on the bottom of the torsos. Other than that Ed and Brian are just casting like crazy. So we are almost there, just a little further yet."

This review of the Trollcast material was posted on the RBG forum, the only review I've seen so far:

"Hi,

Well as I received my Aenglish from the Kickstarter,I thought it'd be nice to give a little review of the new material used for the minis.
And it is awesome!
I have to admit I was a bit worried when Tre annouced his range will turn to plastic, as many of the previous 'this plastic is as good as the metal' statements made by some mini makers failed to impress me. Thor was I wrong! I'd go as far as to say that the new material is actually better than metal.
First impression was a bit mixed as it looks a lot like the finecast material, but that's only from afar. When you look closer to the mini, you realize the details are sharp as hell (I always found that the faces were the weak spot on Red Box minis, but I now realize it was because the casting wasn't up to the sculpt) with no air bubble ruining the sculpt. It's easy to clean (the minis I got were almost free from mould lines... only a few flashes here and there, that's all!) and easy to work with (no need to pin the little parts, easy to cut, easy to glue). It's also very tough, I tested it on the sprue part, and it's not easy to break!
I can't wait to get more minis made of that stuff !"

Looks like there's no chance I'll have my pledge delivered before the Imbrian Arts KS ends which is a shame.
Everything I've seen and heard of Trollcast in encouraging, but it's hard to commit to a THIRD KS using material I've never seen in person.

I think that for a while Ed was mailing out free samples of the material, you might be able to email him and get one (possibly pay for postage).

Trollcast FTW!!!

I received my Aenglish awhile ago as well.

The casting is pretty good. There were some visible mold lines, and some of the thinner parts were slightly warped. But the detail was very sharp, and the imperfections where nothing that couldn't be overcome with a hobby knife and some hot water.

I've received much worse from larger outfits and I was overall very pleased with the quality. But don't go thinking it's some revolutionary casting method that solves all problems

 AT wrote:
I received my Aenglish awhile ago as well.

The casting is pretty good. There were some visible mold lines, and some of the thinner parts were slightly warped. But the detail was very sharp, and the imperfections where nothing that couldn't be overcome with a hobby knife and some hot water.

I've received much worse from larger outfits and I was overall very pleased with the quality. But don't go thinking it's some revolutionary casting method that solves all problems

I'm hoping that latter isn't what anyone is expecting.
I'm looking for something that is as good as metal and relatively inexpensive, which seems to be the case.

 plastictrees wrote:

 AT wrote:
I received my Aenglish awhile ago as well.

The casting is pretty good. There were some visible mold lines, and some of the thinner parts were slightly warped. But the detail was very sharp, and the imperfections where nothing that couldn't be overcome with a hobby knife and some hot water.

I've received much worse from larger outfits and I was overall very pleased with the quality. But don't go thinking it's some revolutionary casting method that solves all problems

I'm hoping that latter isn't what anyone is expecting.
I'm looking for something that is as good as metal and relatively inexpensive, which seems to be the case.

To be fair, metal has its share of miscasts as well. Any resin is going to miscast at a higher rate as well, no matter how good you get your production method going. It's all about the QA, but even then, miscasts will slip out.

 -Loki- wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:

 AT wrote:
I received my Aenglish awhile ago as well.

The casting is pretty good. There were some visible mold lines, and some of the thinner parts were slightly warped. But the detail was very sharp, and the imperfections where nothing that couldn't be overcome with a hobby knife and some hot water.

I've received much worse from larger outfits and I was overall very pleased with the quality. But don't go thinking it's some revolutionary casting method that solves all problems

I'm hoping that latter isn't what anyone is expecting.
I'm looking for something that is as good as metal and relatively inexpensive, which seems to be the case.

To be fair, metal has its share of miscasts as well. Any resin is going to miscast at a higher rate as well, no matter how good you get your production method going. It's all about the QA, but even then, miscasts will slip out.

Right, that wasn't a counter to anything AT was saying in his review.

How/when will I be able to purchase the Wolf pack and the Barbarian Cav.?

I'm guessing January after the KS stuff ships, the rest will be general release.

Can anyone post photos of the Hels Riders and wolf pack?

the WIP shots or the finished models? I don't think there's a shot of the finished helsriders yet.

The finished models.

There are no pictures of the finished Helsriders

Tre forgot to take any pictures before they went off to the caster

but as the caster is working on them this week hopefully he'll get the masters back for aprpoval soon and will have some shots from each other

Maybe Ed/Brian could snap a Christmas photo

So folks have been receiving their minis (other than us folks waiting for the horsies) for a bit now - has anyone taken photos?

Yes, Christmas pics wanted... Very, very much

No it's very sad !

I suspect most of the folk who are involved enough in the forum/board scene to think it would be good to post photos were also those who ordered the hellsriders

the no-photos thing has come up on the red box games forums too.....

sigh

yeah, it's killing me. I just wanna see examples of anything that people have gotten!

Well, a good lesson learned for next time- take photos of the sculpts before sending them to be cast!

I asked Ed about pics for Tre's backers and here's what he said:

I will try sent Tre a huge package friday and not sure I have anything else atm. I'll see but did just send Adam at KD a sample and he said "amazing". He might have pictures on a blog somewhere.

I think he meant "I will try" (about pics) and then "Sent Tre a huge package", so he has nothing left.

In which case, maybe we'll get pics from Tre before the new year

He's posted a slightly longer explanation up on the KS which was nice of him.

Edward Fortae about 12 hours ago

I'm going to try and get some pictures for all of you this weekend. I just sent 2 big boxes his way and will send another next week but might be able to get some pics of masters at least in the morning. I'm doing the horses a bit slow as they are complex being one single piece with a modular rider. I am also waiting for a big yes or no to see when I can hire one more person here which will also speed up things but training is slow and I can't just throw anyone into Tre's stuff. I believe you will all be very happy even with the remolding etc. I had to drop back and change around 5 production molds at the last min. but it was so worth it. Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you all.

Nice update by Ed! Pics of the horses would be sweet. His hiring another person would also be amazing- not sure how Impact's chibi stuff will get done otherwise. Basically, good news!

I'm sure Ed has a few people knocking on his door that would make a new hire worthwhile. I know Adam Poots (Kingdom Death) has mentioned talking to Ed about using Trollcast instead of PVC. Tre has big plans as well I'm sure.

Those, plus the I believe already-commited-to chibi models for Impact, and then Imbrian Arts sculpts, means I think he could keep 2 full-time employees busy pretty darn steadily! And hopefully free him up to sculpt (and then have them cast) his own large Kickstarter's worth of models

Update from Ed:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host/posts/375725

And here's one of the Hel's Horses in all its glory.

I don't think I ordered enough



(note this is the master, not a cast)

Even though it's the master, wow!

And does master mean "original sculpt" (which I would've though would be green?) or a master copy of it that Ed made, to make casts from?

 RiTides wrote:
Even though it's the master, wow!

And does master mean "original sculpt" (which I would've though would be green?) or a master copy of it that Ed made, to make casts from?

Generally a 'master' is the latter of those; I'd assume that's the case here, as well.
Tre sculpts in something fimo-like though, so his 'greens' are grey too. Not this shade though, I believe?

Tre has three new photos up as well:

http://www.facebook.com/RedBoxGames/photos_stream

I got my stuff just before Christmas. Aenglish, Zombies and the Keeper. They are fantastic, really detailed and oozing character without being overly busy. Really some of the best miniatures I've ever bought.

Please please please post photos.

 Da Boss wrote:
I got my stuff just before Christmas. Aenglish, Zombies and the Keeper. They are fantastic, really detailed and oozing character without being overly busy. Really some of the best miniatures I've ever bought.

He teases us...

I've got a nasty case of the winter vomiting bug at the moment, so I am not up to photography.

TMI, Boss, TMI

Hope you get better soon!

Sharing is caring, RiTides!

Just stay over there with your bug and we can "share" all you want

 Da Boss wrote:
Sharing is caring, RiTides!

Share some pics then!

a few things I should point out to everybody talking about including these minis in 25mm games (warhammer...).

Tre's sculpts are tiny compared to most fantasy figs. Tre goes out of his way to hide this by using bases half the size of normal GW bases, and posting pictures that are larger than the actual sculpts.

In addition he has a very strict policy that he only issues returns in case of miscasts (even though he doesn't mention it anywhere on his site). And is not a nice guy at all when you are trying to get your money back after utter dissappointment with the product.

Not saying you shouldn't buy, just know what you are in for.

Warhammer is not a 25mm game by even the broadest scale categorization.
Everyone in this thread that enjoys Tres work is very familiar with the size of his models. Several side by sides have been posted.
Most of his models are shown on 20mm squares, which is pretty standard for most human sized races in WHFB. They scale perfectly with LOTR minis and with most historical lines that tend to be actual 25mm. They also match well with the later Confrontation metal releases.
My experience of Tres customer service has been excellent, my first order prior to his Kickstarter did not reach me and he asked me to pick essentially double my order in extra models to be packed with the re-shipped order to make up for it.

Dodicula, I know they're small, but I don't think he tries to hide it. I'm well aware that if I want his stuff I need it ALL to be his... mostly why I haven't made the leap. But with his offering more units / ranks, it becomes more feasible.

I would like to see Tre address the refund issue; I would think he offers them but can't say personally.

I have some trouble with the idea of Tre providng bad CS as well. The guy is basically an angel in that regard...

As for scale, meh. As stated above, the bases he uses are the standard size industry-wide at this scale; the slimmer proportions are something you could have picked up from the pictures. No, it's not GW's cartoon-scale; as plastictrees said, we're utterly grateful for that

OTOH there's been so much hassle about that now, so many times, that perhaps he should do as reaper does and post pictures with a ruler in them. Hey, it'd be good for everyone, actually (I know I was a bit disappointed with the Dreadball dwarves - too big!)

 Bolognesus wrote:
I have some trouble with the idea of Tre providng bad CS as well. The guy is basically an angel in that regard...

As for scale, meh. As stated above, the bases he uses are the standard size industry-wide at this scale; the slimmer proportions are something you could have picked up from the pictures. No, it's not GW's cartoon-scale; as plastictrees said, we're utterly grateful for that

OTOH there's been so much hassle about that now, so many times, that perhaps he should do as reaper does and post pictures with a ruler in them. Hey, it'd be good for everyone, actually (I know I was a bit disappointed with the Dreadball dwarves - too big!)

Actually, most of Tre's figures do come on extra-tiny bases, and they do look bigger in the images on the website (as do Mantic's figures). I was aware that they were smaller before I ordered my first ones, but even with that in mind, they seemed smaller than I expected when I got them in hand. When I did the comparison on my blog with GW's LoTR I took a bunch of the pictures with the original RBG bases - when I paint them I'll be putting them onto regular GW-sized bases for gaming.
http://azazelx.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/red-box-games-size-comparisons-with-gw-lord-of-the-rings-figures/

Huh? weird. I remember pictures with 20mm *square* bases - which is a standard. well, consider that retracted, then.

scipio, the images further down the page seem to have RBG models that would not fit on the smaller-than-normal bases. I'm assuming these came with regular sized bases (either 20mm or 25mm) as you have them pictured on on the page?

The dwarfs seem to come on smaller size bases- but they seem to be the correct scale/size, anyway. Particularly with the LOTR models.

Sverreulf and Hvitarnor might not (I can't remember, I'll check at some stage when I find them) but Yvander and Edele do fit the smaller ones (and came with them). I think Edele is on one of the smaller ones in that pic.

The ones above those, Christia the Chaste, Astrid and Yrsa are again mounted on the smaller ones. When I was taking the pics, I wasn't too worried about the bases, I just wanted to show the figures' size by comparison at the time.

With regards to customer service:

Tre has fantastic customer service. I had an order delayed by a few weeks in the middle of the kickstarter fulfillment madness, sent him an email to ask about it and he doubled it and sent it out post haste.

I was thinking of Fearless Hvitarnor (4th pic from the top), Yvander Halfblood (2nd pic from the bottom), and Sverreulf the Red-Handed (bottom pic). The last one doesn't look like he'd fit on a smaller base, but now that I look at the other two they might.

The most important thing to me is the scale, which your pics compare very well, so thanks for that link

Edit: Here's that link with scipio's size comparisons, since the page rolled over:
http://azazelx.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/red-box-games-size-comparisons-with-gw-lord-of-the-rings-figures/

No worries. I've also had nothing but great CS from Tre' myself. I just thought in fairness that I should verify the thing about smaller bases that the other poster mentioned.

I can also see how he could easily be disappointed if he didn't already know that RBG figures are smaller than the GW-norm. I've felt the same way with some of both Raging Heroes and Mantic's stuff that otherwise look to be sculpted to fir right in with GW figures..

I ordered a giant pile of goblins from Tre during his sale, and they came on smaller round bases (like 20mm round). So yeah, they are smaller (but I was expecting that). The warp-crazed goblin dudes that I got came on 25mm rounds, but they're much bigger and scale with Warhammer goblins (but without giant hydrocephalic GW heads). Additionally, after I made the order, I emailed him asking if I could add one figure I forgot to order and I could paypal him the few dollars but he just threw it in for free. I've made multiple orders from him and they've always been shipped quickly, well packed, and the casts have been the highest quality. He's one of my favorite sculptors on the planet and has been always very personable on his forums and emails. Just my two cents

I actually like the smaller "to scale" size of the miniatures. Having a bunch of Rackham and Mantic miniatures, it really does make it easier to get them to fit in.

I am past buying from GW, and don't really miss the ginormous proportions to be honest. Just sad I couldn't get in on this kickstarter.

The most interesting in this discussion is weather or not any returns are accepted. I don't think that Tre would refuse customers to return their items, and I really hope that it isn't like that. I am quite certain that one got the right to change ones mind and return the product within 14 days after you received the item, and that the company must refund the money in total (with packing and shipping cost to you included). I am also quite certain that an online company cannot create his own refund policies that would limit these "14 days return policy" unless it is to the benefit of the customer (like 21 days return policy, for example, is alright while 7 days isn't). However, I might be refering to outdated sources.

Well, on that I can't say, as I've not been involved in the dispute in question. I do know that distance selling regulations/laws differ from country to country, and possibly from state to state in some places.

I can't comment on whether Tre takes returns although he's always seemed reasonable to me

(but why would you want to return such cool stuff, LOL?)

but I can say the UK legislation means online retailers here have to offer refund for good for 7 days (they can't charge a restocking fee, but if they get their T&C right can make you pay return shipping)

so it's clearly different rules for different countries for this

Dodicula, are you trying to return your KS pledge? Because I'll buy it if you don't want it. Message me with details of what you got, etc.

Ok I did refuse Dodicula's return request.

I wish I could find his original email. I am certain that I have it.

The reason that I refused the return was because he stated the reason for his dissatisfaction was that I lied about the scale / size of the figures or that I purposefully hid the details from him or that I went out of my way to make it seem like the figures are larger on the web site than they are in real life and that the figrues did not fit with his GW figures..

I did not do any of this. I listed the figures as 28mm scale in the web store discription and pictured them on 20 mm bases. I have NEVER lied to anyone about the scale of my figures. Anyone who messages me about this I give them the same response regarding scale / size. Which is as follows;

All measurements are based on full standing ( both feet together back straight ) armatures measured from the bottom of the feet to tthe top of the skull.

Humans .................... 32 to 34mm

Elves ..................... 29 to 31mm

Dwarves ................... 22 to 25mm

Gnomes..................... 15 to 20mm

Goblins ................... 15 to 25mm

Trolls..................... 45 to 50mm

giants .................... 35 to 55mm

The proportions on RBG figures is modeled MUCH closer to what you would expect to see on a real person shrunk down to 32 mm tall than what is typically considered the " norm " in " heroic " 28 mm figures. So with RBG figures a dwarf does NOT look like it would out weigh a human of similar character and Elves do not look like humans with pointy ears. All races are very clearly identifiable by height and build. and their heads, hands and feet are proportionate to the standard human scale.

The undead are built of human scaled armatures but are sculpted to appear dead..... so they are emaciated and awkwardly posed. This reduces the overall percieved " scale " of the figures but they are indeed 32 mm tall before being posed. Which typically puts their eyes at 28 mm level, hence the traditionally accepted discriptive criteria of " 28 " mm scale.


This discribes " 28" mm scale as much as any other company's idea does only in the case of my company I am consistent from figure to figure and I do nto obfuscate the issue with tags like " Heroic".

Furthermore I DO NOT MAKE GW PROXIES I make Red Box Games figures. I do not advertise that my figures are intended to mix with GW WHFB or Reaper or any other range, it has never been my intent to do so nor do I make any such implication. Further I think it is clear that my figures won't fit with GW's heroic scale just by looking at them. The proportions are noticably different.

Had there been some defect in the quality of the figures or damages in shipping ( that were obviously from a mishandled shipment and not just user destruction ) I would have returned the figures. Things being what they were he was accusing me of false advertising and malicious conduct and then threatened to make every effort he could to damage my reputation and my business if I did not acquiesce. At that point I felt like accepting the return was an admission of guilt and I had no way of knowing whether or not I would even get the figures back in the mail anyway. I try my best to make sure my customers are as satisfied as possible and feel as fairly dealt with as possible. I appreciate every single sale I make and I think of every customer as a friend.

I tried to smooth things over as best I could but what could I really do? It was a fairly large order, I think he ordered 9 sets of undead and the Keeper.

If I returned figures simply because they do not fit with GW or Reaper ( which I think is very obvious from the images on the website anyway ) then I might as well shut up shop and go to work for either one because I will NEVER know if any given order will be a final sale or not.

I've not had an issue with the communication from Tre.

If Dodicula is interested in getting rid of them, I'll take undead or wolves if they have them.

PM me for discussion.



Edited for clearity

I got my KS zombie minis in yesterday and they look great.

The miniatures are scaled to normal human proportions which makes them look very undersized if stood next to GW stuff, simular to how the Inifinity minatures are scaled. I love having stuff that isn't giant overblown apes with hamfists (GW). I think the realistic proportions add to the pieces but I suppose I could see why somebody might get a bit of shock and think things are out of scale, especially if their only reference is through GW tinted glasses.

I took one of the more upright zombies and stood him next to a Cadian and they are the same height, but about a 1/3rd of his mass as it's realistic in build and also meant to be gaunt and almost skeletal in appearance. Most of them are in very hunched over poses so they look a bit shorter than if they were fully upright.







In terms of sculpting they are top notch, the casts overall are very good. There were a couple small bubbles and a couple of the tiny spikes weren't fully formed, all of which will be repairable and no major details were lost.

I've had simular instances with resin I've worked with if I didn't dust the molds with Talc. I know that these are a plastic base so I'm not sure where the process differs but it might be that there's some bubbles not fully dispersing due to surface tension in the molds or if maybe the spincaster wasn't up to full speed. Not bashing anything here, just offering my observation on the technical side.

You may want to move up the next size up on the baggies, they were packed pretty tightly together which can be rough on the smaller spikey bits. I get a mix of bead baggies at Micheals craft store or Hobby Lobby.

I'm very happy with the minis and they'lll be great to paint up.

Agreed- dodicula, I think you'll find quite a few buyers. If you got them through the KS at less than retail, you can probably recoup your entire investment either here or on Bartertown.

It helps to ask nicely when asking for a refund or exchange... I asked for an exchange of some Brushfire models (not a refund) and On The Lamb cane through in spades. But if I'd threatened them etc... it probably would've been different.

Anyway, good to hear both sides, at least!

OK Tre,
I've been a supporter of you for some time, but in fairness I do think there are things you could do better here.

I've never seen 20mm round bases before I ordered from you (or anywhere else since) and they do in fact make the figures seem larger than they actually are. The closest would be the ones that came with 2nd Edition Blood Bowl that had the coloured rings fit around them to denote player position.

On your current RBG webpage, the scaling information is not on the homepage, nor is it on the ABOUT or NEWS pages, or anywhere else that's clearly obvious to a new customer or someone who doesn't know the size of your figures. I think it's actually a fairer assumption for new customers that your stuff will scale to GW and Reaper than to your own internal RBG scale. Proportion doesn't matter in this discussion. What's obvious to you, the artist who works with this stuff every day is actually NOT AT ALL OBVIOUS to someone looking at pictures on the web.

I'll use three examples here -
1) Rackham's stuff always has/had much finer proportions than GW, yet their figures were actually bigger.
2) Tre' Manor's work for Reaper miniatures always fit Reaper's scale. Why would someone buying Tre's work from one source expect his figures from another to be scaled significantly differently?
3) Not all of GW's work fits the "plastic Cadian proportion" mentality. Not by a long shot. They have a huge range and a lot of quite finely sculpted/proportioned figures amongst them...




Let's be honest. There's nothing at all here that even implies that this figure wouldn't fit perfectly into a GW High Elf Army. Proportion, hat size, base size.. none of that comes into it in the slightest.
http://red-box-games.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=38

(that was a random example - first thing I clicked on from the sidebar)

The Keeper also looks like he would easily be GW-sized, or a bit larger - just wiry. The image looks like he could easily be twice the bulk of the actual figure (I have the figure, already knew about your scale from having read it, and *I* was surprised how tiny the actual figure was when I got it in hand - I honestly expected it to be a lot larger, despite knowing it would not be GW sized..) Call it the double-edged sword of your having the talent to sculpt so finely.
http://red-box-games.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25&products_id=65



I don't know the distance selling regulation laws for Tre's state, but I would suggest it worthwhile for Tre to look them up and be sure that he complies with them. As grefven said, making up your own policies and deciding that they trump the local law is probably not the best move ever. Like those "NO REFUNDS" signs (and policies) in shops that aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

All of that information you wrote on height needs to be on the website. Probably on the ABOUT page. I personally couldn't find it anywhere, and I looked for a couple of minutes, which is a couple of minutes longer than the average customer will look. Don't assume anything about what your customers (or potential customers) "should" know or be "obvious". Your new Helsvakt range from the KS in particular look like they'd make great figures to mix into a Chaos Warrior force - except of course, they won't. You need to be much more obvious about the scaling issue, or very shortly you'll have a lot more new unhappy customers like Dodicula - drawn in by the excellently-sculpted Halsvakt to use in Chaos Armies. You probably need a "these figures ae not scaled to work with Reaper/GW" upfront on the homepage, to be quite frank. Bolognesus' suggestion of posting pictures with a ruler next to them a la Reaper is also an excellent one, that could save you many hassles and headaches down the road.

I agree with scipio. Though I am perfectly happy with my RBG purchases, I had investigated the scale carefully beforehand. If I had been expecting "GW Scale" minis, I would have gotten unpleasant surprise with my first purchases that might have made me a little disappointed with RBG through no real fault of Tre's.

I think advertising clearly is always a good idea to prevent disappointment like this.

It really is amazing how fine the detail on the miniatures is though, that's why it "looks" like a larger scale. Compared to GW LOTR the detail is amazing and the amount of "character" the minis have is great.

Best of luck getting a buyer for those minis Dodicula and best of luck with the rest of the KS campaign Tre.

A number of the minis on the site do say something along the lines of:

"figure stands precisely 30mm tall."

or

"Miniature supplied with 20mm round base"

I find RBG Aenglish match up nicely with Rakham cadwallon figures.

I must say Tre's Zombie looks much better then the zombicide zombie. Can't wait to get mine.

Yeah, the zombies look absolutely awesome in the plastics! I love mine in metal, but goddamn I can't wait for my KS stuff to arrive!

Sort of crap photos, but tre's stuff looks fine next to reaper's RPG stuff:



And looks fine based on 25mm instead of 20mm rounds:





But I use it all for pathfinder, so, scale doesn't bother me much.

I've never been concerned about RBG minis's scale. The minis are very well proportioned in their own scale, and I think they don't look much different than any other realistic 28mm minis. I had never used round 20mm bases, and they might cause an visual effect on the scale, but the minis are just fine.

 paulson games wrote:

Wow, I missed this pic (I think we simul-posted). The RBG zombie looks great!

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, I missed this pic (I think we simul-posted). The RBG zombie looks great!

I ninja edited

Some hastily inked aenglish next to an imperial guardsmen and a reaper sword lady.

Yep, some are larger and smaller than others. Not really the point that both Dodicula and Tre were making, though.

To derail this thread and get back to the Kickstarter for a moment - does anyone know what's been sent out at this stage? It seems that orders containing the warhorses and also the Krigare are the ones that haven't been sent out? It that correct? Possibly the wolves?

Yeah, I'd love to hear an update on that from Tre. It sounded like Ed sent him the horses just before the holidays, but I haven't heard anything about them / confirmation of that / pics from Tre?

With everyone talking about the bases I'd like to derail slightly...I've been looking for 20mm round plastic bases for a while...anyone know where to find them?

This is a posts from Tre on the RB forum (28/12/12)

"I got another 2 boxes on Christmas Eve!!! I have nto had time to really QC yet but thus far it all looks really great! I now have Svetlana, Morgrimn A +B, the Hordesmen, Red Olga, and Blutulf which means there are a LOT more orders that can be shipped now! I am VERY sorry that this is taking as long as it has but this is the nature of the beast. Production issues arise at every link int he chain and they just take time to power through. I assure yo uall though that we are all workign very hard to make this happen as quickly and properly as possible."

and part of a post from the KS comments from about the same date

"Thus far I have shipped more than 100 packages. The numbers are what they are. The reason I have run out of the hordesmen is because Ed only had so many cast when he shipped the last package and I asked him to go ahead and ship what he had so I could start filling orders."

so I think while the horse masters are done (maybe approved by Tre too ?) the casts probably haven't got to him yet

bbb You can buy them from me if you want. I had to order a HUGE amount for the undead and I doutb I will go through what I have very quickly. PM me and we can work somethign out.

As for what has been shipped ont he KS thus far;

The Varp are still on hold as one of the models had a pretty bad defect on every single casting. The cloak that flies out from the left side of one of the waiting from was too thin and thusly the fur texture on the back was nto as sharp as it needed to be ( almost flattened out entirely ). Ed infroms me that that mould has been remade adn the figure si beign cast up right now. so those should be going out very very soon.

The Wolves are waiting on the bases. I need to touch base with ED on that.

Beyond that I am still awaiting delivery on Conradt's Warp Form, and his weapon sprue, Yrsa and Fenris, Ulbrecht, Guarthagust, and all of the horsemen.

Ed informs me that the only molds left to be completed are the molds for 3 of the horses, and the heads for the horsemen. Everythign else is just in casting so it really should not be much further yet.

as for returns....... well I admit I do need to post the policy and I will do so. I do not see how I can operate my business on an open ended return policy though as the funds from any transaction will always be tied up waiting for the return period to expire ( that si of course if there IS a definite period. ). I ain't walmart!

Well then tell Ed to hurry up with those horses!

TFM's Ed wrote:Hey everyone real quick, we just got our 3rd spin caster today and now 2 here and one elsewhere for now. Me and Brian will be casting soon together to knock out a few jobs faster then give me a bit more sculpting time and hopefully Jan. leads to us moving into the shop with 3 spin casters and a 4th in line to go and we really begin pumping out stuff. If all goes according to my plan everyone will be getting things early from this point on but it's still a lot of work to get all this in place as a manager yet still be a major producer. Thanks again and excited to show you some stuff in Jan. OUR STUFF!

from the TFM KS comments page. Seems like he's expanding production capacity significantly - this might be caught up in the maelstrom that's causing a little but there's light at the end of the tunnel for all you guys who did back this project (//kicks self again).

Yeah, sounds like he's getting tons of business and expanding to meet demand, which is great for the long run.

A link I saw on the comments on the RBG KS section.

http://sonsoftaurus.blogspot.se/2012/12/various-things-red-box-unboxing-dungeon.html

grefven wrote:
A link I saw on the comments on the RBG KS section.

http://sonsoftaurus.blogspot.se/2012/12/various-things-red-box-unboxing-dungeon.html

Very nice to put up that info. Nice to see that the sculpting has for the most part been translated well, but some of those pictures are a bit amazing (not in a good way);





That is some crazy flash on those shields. The round shields are similarly concerning, albeit in the other direction (overly thin, that is);



They are actually transparent in places...

Very nice,

I didn't realise there was going to be variety in the armoured shields so even more pleased with the large number I ordered


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and thanks for posting the spot


Automatically Appended Next Post:
actually I don't think the 'blocks' of flash on the heavy armour shields are much of a problem (on a plastic/non brittle resin figure)

They've on a flat smooth surface so easy to remove with a sharp knife, and I'd rather do it myself slowly & carefully rather than have it done by the caster

the round shields, yup that's an issue where there's an actual hole (thin goes away on painting, LOL)

They look pretty good. I have noticed, though, that all this going to cheaper materials by companies in general hasn't resulted in cheaper prices (for example, I'm about to buy the new pyre troll sculpt, which is $4 more than the old, from Privateer Press... and restic instead of metal. However, it's a new design and bigger, both probably made possible by the new material).

The quality looks pretty good, although again if you're paying close to metal prices (not necessarily through the Kickstarter, but normally) I guess it should be!

 RiTides wrote:
They look pretty good. I have noticed, though, that all this going to cheaper materials by companies in general hasn't resulted in cheaper prices

Yeah, looks like that particular sales point of Trollforged might only apply to Ed's stuff, as everyone else is sticking with the same prices. I'm dubious about the shields, to be honest. I certainly hope I don't get ones that are so thin to be transparent, as that means they will be flimsy as hell. Also not sure about the huge casting blocks on them being able to be removed without destroying the details. I'll have to wait and see on that.

Fairly certain Red Box is dropping a ton in price. 5 Gynnade Krigare were $40 in metal, and during the KS you got the special KS price of $18/rank which IIRC was ~20% off; so my guess is that retail will be 5 for $25. So in the end the MSRP will have dropped 35%ish. But disclaimer, obviously I am not Tre and I don't know what the final price point will be.

That will be good if it happens. It'll also make Tre pretty much unique in this regard..

And it would make a lot of his stuff crazy affordable

I am in for his Assimilation Alien Host, and for the amount I am paying I am getting a hell of a lot of not-tyranid miniatures. I actually wondered how he could afford to do this, but apparently he can so who am I to question?

One of my favorite miniatures of all-time is the goblin riding the warbear. I really hope he sculpts more goblins riding things, possibly for the next KS! I'm actually hoping Tre is sculpting new stuff right now, secretly

The goblins are no longer available atm, right?

 judgedoug wrote:
One of my favorite miniatures of all-time is the goblin riding the warbear. I really hope he sculpts more goblins riding things, possibly for the next KS! I'm actually hoping Tre is sculpting new stuff right now, secretly

He's mentioned getting ready for a new kickstarter and I believe he said he was sculpting in the lull between getting greens to the caster. I think he also talked about sculpting some Zombie Apocalypse modern survivor types over on frothers.

Yeah, a lot of stuff is OOP right now. Tre had initially planned to start a new KS in mid-Nov, but (luckily?) those plans were nixed by the delays this one has had. There will be another one soon, though..

yep another one coming up soon.

I am sculpting righ tnwo but I am workign on a totally new fantasy project that I have dyign to get on to for years. It won't take over ALL of my time and effort over the long term but it is doign so right now outside of KS fulfillment.

Teh round shields...... yeh there is an issue with those shields beign too thin. Not all of them are so I am going though tryign to pick out all of them that are unacceptable. I will be remaking that item I think, sooner rather than later.

The flash on this stuff is RIDICULOUSLY easy to remove. Really. The blocks that hold the kite shields are situated in such as way that you can just snap them off of their sprue with no damage what-so-ever. I would be doing it myself but it would only make packing them more difficult and time consuming and also increase the rate of mispacks.

Post KS pricing...... yes there is a dramatic drop in costs and that will translate directly to retail pricing to consumers. I am still fiddlign with number stryign to find the most ideal arrangement but Doug's assessment is about bang on right. Reducing prices to customers was the original idea in this entire effort after all! Hopefully this time there won't be any major competing campaign to interrupt the flow of funding to retool.

Thanks for the thoughts, Tre.

Yeah, it's still a manual process like casting metal figures - labor is a very high cost in manufacturing. Reducing the cost of materialsl certainly will offering you a good savings but isn't a magic thing to make everything super cheap. Basically what we're seeing is a replacement material to bring the cost of miniatures down to the level of about ten years ago, since tin/pewter is ridiculously expensive now.

Keeping all fingers crossed that Tre has the goblins in the next KS... some of my favorite miniatures of all time...

Yep Goblins are planned as part of the next KS. ;o)

I will probably start it off with the Aenglish and then move to goblins and then to infernals, and from there to Dwarves, and then on to the Aelfar. The Njorn will be a KS of their own later this year as I want to completely fill out the range entirely and I think the best way to do that is with a dedicated campaign.

Just for a little insight, the price for the metal Gynnade Krigare was too low to begin with. The new price will still be lower than ideal BUT the volume in which the figures sold through the KS campaign negates the a lot of the financial burden that determines the pricing of any given figrue or set of figures.

So the KS enabled an economy of scale, allowing you to offer the figures, in the end, a little lower than if there hadn't been a KS in the first place?

and I am going to give you all of my money for your goblins, btw. Especially if there's cavalry.

So is there any rough idea on when you'll be getting the last of the figures back so they can start to be sent out? I have wolves and Varp, but no Helriders.

Yeah, it'd be good to hear an ETA.

I'm curious if the new campaign will feature "ranks" to be able to use your models for units, but I'm guessing it will be more of re-casting the current/former metals as plastics, which would mean the existing sculpts (single miniatures, no ranks).

any chance the second KS will offer some of the models from this one for rewards? Still kicking myself for not finding some budget

I'd hope so as well. I ran out of money and would have liked to get some riders. I believe Alph also expressed a similar interest...

Well, they'll be available for retail sale as soon as he gets all the casts. I am kicking myself for not adding another hundred bucks to my pledge. I "need" several more units...

The Goblins are already in ranks - there was, what, 6 sculpts of the spearmen, 12 of the warp-goblins, 6 of the bows, and a bunch of characters... I own 50-some of Tre's goblins and can't wait to get another giant pile of them.

Could you post some pics? I haven't seen them and they're not on his site now.

@judgedoug: You're making me all excited! I managed to snag a Bonebacks Multipack D from the FRPgames sale, recently, from the End of the World sale. I can't find anything at all about it, so I don't even know what's in it, but I know it has goblins!

Here's a shot of the warp boneback goblins, and the normal goblins, and then a Mantic goblin for scale.

and here's some of the characters next to a KoW goblin for scale. the goblin on warbear is one of my favorite sculpts of all time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry for the craptastic cellphone pics.

Alright, I'm convinced that I need that goblin on warbear model. I am more stoked than ever for Tre's next campaign!

Also, does anybody know what is in the Bonebacks Multipack D? Sorry to ask, I just don't know what I'm getting and curiosity is killing me (it doesn't get here for another week or two)

Multipack D should be all of the bonebacks (12 i think) irrc.


Edit:
Should be this:
http://www.wampstore.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_77&product_id=420

 Buzzsaw wrote:






That is some crazy flash on those shields. The round shields are similarly concerning, albeit in the other direction (overly thin, that is);

While I agree the thinned out areas are a problem and are unacceptable, thin translucent flash is about as hard to remove with a sharp hobby knife as wet snot. The flash isn't crazy until it becomes opaque and as thick as the proper model piece itself...



I got something very similar to this with a marine icon pack from Forge World. There was no way of getting rid of the flash without actually warping or breaking the icons themselves.

Wow, those bonebacks look very different (and a lot bigger?) than the normal goblins!

Thanks for the pics judgedoug

They're particularly visible at that last link from czakk, too, copied due to page rollover:

http://www.wampstore.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_77&product_id=420

 warboss wrote:



I got something very similar to this with a marine icon pack from Forge World. There was no way of getting rid of the flash without actually warping or breaking the icons themselves.

I've gotten some awful pieces from Forge World in my time. When it happens, I've contacted them with photos and asked them to replace them. Which they did without argument. Which is what I'll be doing if I get sub-par stuff from Tre' here (or anyone else).

Yeah, no prob, sorry about the low quality. Now at least I hope you can understand why I'm so excited about a new KS involving goblins, possibly new sculpts. the bonebacks have such detail and character, as do the spear goblins, and I missed getting the archers before they went out of print. I loved Tre's stuff so much I've been trying to get other painting projects finished and out of the way so when my Helsvakt models arrive I can devote as much time as possible painting the models.

me = Tre fanboy for life

The goblins will definately include new sculpts. Tre has mentioned at several places that he got several new ones ready to go, but is waiting for the time to introduce them. His next KS will do the trick.

Yep 13 new goblin footmen.

ETA for the rest of the KS stuff...... I think I am getting some this week and some next week but those horses ARE going to take some time to cast.

Scipio, I am just waiting for the pill bases on the wolves and for one of the waiting forms of the Varp.

 tre manor wrote:


Yep 13 new goblin footmen.

*squeeeee*

grefven wrote:
The most interesting in this discussion is weather or not any returns are accepted. I don't think that Tre would refuse customers to return their items, and I really hope that it isn't like that. I am quite certain that one got the right to change ones mind and return the product within 14 days after you received the item, and that the company must refund the money in total (with packing and shipping cost to you included). I am also quite certain that an online company cannot create his own refund policies that would limit these "14 days return policy" unless it is to the benefit of the customer (like 21 days return policy, for example, is alright while 7 days isn't). However, I might be refering to outdated sources.

If you want I can post the email he sent me refusing the return, and I'm not aware of such a law (14 days return) in California US . the timeline was something like (based on emails and paypaly history)

Order on Oct-3-12
Tre Acknowledging that the order was ignored Oct-10-10
Me actually getting the miniaturs sometime arounf Oct-10-13?
Me asking for a refund: Oct-26
Tre's flat out refusal (I guess this is the policy, which he is ashamed to put on his web site):




Hi <DODICULA>,

I am very sorry for the delay in my response. I will only accept
returns for items which are physically defective ( i.e. miscast. ) I
cannot accept returns for figures which do not fit with another
company's figures. I am sorry for any confusion but RBG is
purposefully not made to fit with any other range. Have you considered
using your RBG undead purchase as the start of a new collection of all
RBG figures?

Cheers,

Tre'

Hi Dodicula,

what was the text of you asking for a refund?

Also what was your order total and what did you buy? There's a bunch of us here who would be willing to buy your stuff from you.

 judgedoug wrote:
Hi Dodicula,

what was the text of you asking for a refund?

Also what was your order total and what did you buy? There's a bunch of us here who would be willing to buy your stuff from you.

My original request:
> Hi Tre, what is your return policy? I recently recieved an order of "lesser
> dead", and they are way too small to fit in with my Games Workshop Vampire
> Counts army

I originally bought 27 zombies and the necromancer dude for 70 dollars and change. I have painted the necromancer but the zombies are still unpainted (though there bases may not be all there anymore)

So metal ones? Did you get 'em during the metal clearance sale? Let us all know if you're willing to sell any ones you don't want.

They are Metal, Not sure if it was during the sale, I bought them and the Keeper for 70. sure I'm willing to sell all of it. You can PM me any offers.

Let's keep discussion of trades/sales out of the thread and within PM from here on out. Thanks.

dodicula wrote:

I am sorry for any confusion but RBG is
purposefully not made to fit with any other range. Have you considered
using your RBG undead purchase as the start of a new collection of all
RBG figures?

Cheers,

Tre'

If true, that's a bit of a lame response really. If I got something like that from any vendor, I'd be insulted. I'd also take it further and force my money back one way or another. But that's me...

The part about (not) fitting in with other ranges needs to be upfront and centre on the RBG site.

 scipio.au wrote:

dodicula wrote:

I am sorry for any confusion but RBG is
purposefully not made to fit with any other range. Have you considered
using your RBG undead purchase as the start of a new collection of all
RBG figures?

Cheers,

Tre'

If true, that's a bit of a lame response really. If I got something like that from any vendor, I'd be insulted. I'd also take it further and force my money back one way or another. But that's me...

The part about (not) fitting in with other ranges needs to be upfront and centre on the RBG site.

Do Wyrd and Privateer have such disclaimers?

Studio McVey?

Mantic? Spartan?

Sorry but I think asking for a refund because they are smaller than you expected is really lame...

just google: redbox games size comparison and you get a dozen pictures... if you are to lazy to do that then tough luck...

I have never ever saw a "brand" site have any comarison pictures, so why expect them from Tre???

You should try to get your money back for Lotr models because they dont scale to your space marines at the local GW... :p

and if based on the pictures on the site, i didnt think it was neccessary? As i mentioned before the pictures on tres site make the minis appear larger than they are. Second, i think he should post somewhere that he only accepts returns in case of miscasts. I wanted to return an unused product, that i was dissapointed with. thats pretty common in online business, no? You want to say buyer beware, ok fine, I guess thats just one more type of miniature maker I wont support, 70 bucks isnt gonna break me.

TheGrin wrote:
Sorry but I think asking for a refund because they are smaller than you expected is really lame...

In most European countries there is a law that regulades customers right to return an item regardless of what reason there is. Had this been in Sweden, dodicula would have had the law on his side if he wanted to return the items for a full refund simply because the miniatures won't fit his others. The only issue would be that the items/seal would be unbroken.

I did a quick google about RBG, and apparently there isn't any laws that regulade the customer's right to return an item in MS, USA. I didn't search very long, though, so I might be wrong. But from what I found out, it appears that Tre is doing nothing wrong when he refuses returns on other than his terms. But, as being ultimately responsible to ensure that all laws are followed, Tre would be smart if he reached out to agencies to make sure he got the laws on his side.

In the US, for the most part, 'All Sales are Final' is a valid return policy. The only real exception to that is if the item is defective, in this case a Miscast. Being a different scale would fall under 'Working as Intended' unless RBG was advertising the models are WHFB alternates.

 Cyporiean wrote:
In the US, for the most part, 'All Sales are Final' is a valid return policy. The only real exception to that is if the item is defective, in this case a Miscast. Being a different scale would fall under 'Working as Intended' unless RBG was advertising the models are WHFB alternates.

RBG isn't being advertised as proxies for other game systems, so I guess this return discussion is settled and Tre has the full right to only accept defected items in return.

In the end, I think it's not that big of a deal. As has already been pointed out, many places have a "No Returns" (except in the case of manufacturing defects, of course) policy in the US.

I'm actually quite surprised about the policy that apparently a lot of European countries have! It never occurred to me, for instance, to try to return the Scourge that I got for Dropzone Commander directly to Hawk Wargames (in the UK) just because I changed my mind about what faction I wanted to play once seeing them in-person.

Rather, I sold the Scourge on Ebay to recoup most of my investment, and then bought the Shaltari that I wanted direct from Hawk Wargames.

Cyporiean did an exchange for me at On The Lamb games for Brushfire, but it was completely "out of the goodness of her heart" as far as I was concerned (of course it was months after the sale, too, but I would have felt similarly even closer to the sale date).

So, basically, Tre is well within his rights here, in the US, not to accept returns for what we call "buyer remorse". Particularly, first party sales (not through a distributor) don't usually offer these afaik. It's one reason why folks buy through 3rd party places like The Warstore- the return policy is very, very good.

But to expect a one-man show who is both sculpting, packing, shipping, and doing customer service to be able to have the same policies as a company who Only fulfills orders is asking a bit much imo.

Tre seems very reasonable and I have a feeling he would work with customers who really talked to him about it. He mentioned threats in the emails and while we don't have them all here, it could be that there was some language in there that made him respond as he did.

Long and short of it is, he's well within his rights to have this policy in the US, and from what I've seen he's an honest and nice chap, so it does not put me off too much. I also have a feeling he'd be much more open to exchanges than returns, as many companies in the US are.

Admittedly this is a bit off topic but probably deserves to be added here due to the prevaling comversation

In the UK it's ONLY internet sales that benefit from the 7 day 'I've changed my mind' law (probably introduced to increase customer confidence in e-commerce generally)

This is because buyers haven't actually had a proper chance to examine an item until they get it in their hands on it (which they could have done if they'd bought it in a traditional shop).

Back on topic

Can't wait to get my Helsvakt Horde and start rampaging

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Can't wait to get my Helsvakt Horde and start rampaging

Yeah, I agree. The previews of the Helsvakt are amazing! And if I ever assemble my units, the army will look absolutely stunning I am sure.

But now I am kinda eager to see the goblins and what Tre is cooking for us for his next KS.

 RiTides wrote:
In the end, I think it's not that big of a deal. As has already been pointed out, many places have a "No Returns" (except in the case of manufacturing defects, of course) policy in the US.

I'm actually quite surprised about the policy that apparently a lot of European countries have! It never occurred to me, for instance, to try to return the Scourge that I got for Dropzone Commander directly to Hawk Wargames (in the UK) just because I changed my mind about what faction I wanted to play once seeing them in-person.

Rather, I sold the Scourge on Ebay to recoup most of my investment, and then bought the Shaltari that I wanted direct from Hawk Wargames.

Cyporiean did an exchange for me at On The Lamb games for Brushfire, but it was completely "out of the goodness of her heart" as far as I was concerned (of course it was months after the sale, too, but I would have felt similarly even closer to the sale date).

So, basically, Tre is well within his rights here, in the US, not to accept returns for what we call "buyer remorse". Particularly, first party sales (not through a distributor) don't usually offer these afaik. It's one reason why folks buy through 3rd party places like The Warstore- the return policy is very, very good.

But to expect a one-man show who is both sculpting, packing, shipping, and doing customer service to be able to have the same policies as a company who Only fulfills orders is asking a bit much imo.

Tre seems very reasonable and I have a feeling he would work with customers who really talked to him about it. He mentioned threats in the emails and while we don't have them all here, it could be that there was some language in there that made him respond as he did.

Long and short of it is, he's well within his rights to have this policy in the US, and from what I've seen he's an honest and nice chap, so it does not put me off too much. I also have a feeling he'd be much more open to exchanges than returns, as many companies in the US are.

As I said its not a big deal for me, the reason I chimed in (and may continue to do so) is because everyone keeps crowing about what a great guy Tre is and his customer service, and Tre himself commented in this very thread that he treats every customer as a friend.
I know if a friend of mine felt that I cheated him out of 70 dollars (even though for most people I know its not a huge amount of money), I would do everything in my power to set things right. Not put snarky comments about starting a whole collection, when you feel ripped off about the initial investment. I would hope any one I truly call "friend" would do the same.

"But to expect a one-man show who is both sculpting, packing, shipping, and doing customer service to be able to have the same policies as a company who Only fulfills orders is asking a bit much imo."- I disagree, here's privateers return policy :
http://store.privateerpress.com/returnpolicy.aspx, is 3 sentences really that hard to write, even for a one business, posting three sentence on a plain web page is not a big deal.

Tre seems very reasonable and I have a feeling he would work with customers who really talked to him about it- The email I posted above is EXACTLY what I wrote him to:

My original request:

Hi Tre, what is your return policy? I recently recieved an order of "lesser
dead", and they are way too small to fit in with my Games Workshop Vampire
Counts army

No more no less (nothing except name and sig was ommited or skipped, no other emails/requests were sent until his response), his response was EXACTLY the email posted above.
His response was as follows (again nothing was ommited from email body)

I am very sorry for the delay in my response. I will only accept
returns for items which are physically defective ( i.e. miscast. ) I
cannot accept returns for figures which do not fit with another
company's figures. I am sorry for any confusion but RBG is
purposefully not made to fit with any other range. Have you considered
using your RBG undead purchase as the start of a new collection of all
RBG figures?

It was the last sentence that really made me angry, as to me it meant, "don't like our product? Just shut up and buy more" I responded with the following, it is not meant as a threat, but I feel his site misinforms people, and I told him that I will be taking steps to correct this misinformation:

Unfortunately, I have a fully painted army which I was hoping to replace the zombies in. Note I am not specifically looking for GW compatible (as I have reaper and Malifaux minis in my army) but I (I believe reasonably) assumed the minis were at least 25mm scale, and I must say I feel somewhat decieved. i.e. if they are purposely not 25mm, perhaps you should post the scale (they look 20mm to me in person) on the site somewhere? If you cannot do this, then I feel my only recourse is to post everywhere I can to warn people about this, and launching a dispute with paypal.

Again no ommissions or redactions.

Also note, I was forthright and polite from the very beginning with Tre, and there was no angry tirades at any time during our exchanges. That is not my style, and if there is any hyperbole or sarcasm/unwelcome witt, it is from Tre, not me (both earlier in this thread and in our email exchange)
Ultimately I chose not to launch a dispute because even though I would probably win (buyer almost always wins from what I hear) I felt it was unjust to take money from someone without agreement or an impartial judge. However, I feel I am well within my rights to tell people that my experience with Red-Box games was poor, and that the miniatures appear smaller than they seem, and tell people what his return policy is (as he will not do it himself) and may continue to do so.

dodicula wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
But to expect a one-man show who is both sculpting, packing, shipping, and doing customer service to be able to have the same policies as a company who Only fulfills orders is asking a bit much imo.

I disagree, here's privateers return policy :
http://store.privateerpress.com/returnpolicy.aspx, is 3 sentences really that hard to write, even for a one business, posting three sentence on a plain web page is not a big deal.

***snip***

Also note, I was forthright and polite from the very beginning with Tre, and there was no angry tirades at any time during our exchanges. That is not my style, and if there is any hyperbole or sarcasm/unwelcome witt, it is from Tre, not me (both earlier in this thread and in our email exchange)
Ultimately I did not launch a dispute because even though I would probably win (buyer almost always wins from what I hear) I felt it was unjust to take money from someone without agreement or an impartial judge. However, I feel I am well within my rights to tell people that my experience with Red-Box games was poor, and that the miniatures appear smaller than they seem, and tell people what his return policy is (as he will not do it himself) and may continue to do so.

You're missing the point about RiTides quote which is that it's likely a one man show over at Red Box Games.. which is decidedly not the case with your Privateer Press example (who make the second largest selling minis game on the market). While I agree that you were forthright in your reasons for a refund, that doesn't mean you should get one. RBG is not responsible for your assumptions about their products that are in no way stated or hinted at on their site. They don't make GW sized monster-handed exaggerated style scale figures nor do they claim to. They're not responsible for stuff you come up with on your own with your imagination nor should they have to pay a monetary price for it when they don't live up to what they never claimed.

I can buy a set of winged gargoyles from a company but that doesn't mean I deserve a refund when I let go of the mini and they don't fly. Baseless assumptions =/= valid reason for a refund.

I think that you are missing my point. That 3 sentences is pretty easy to write, even for a "one man shop". Also, if he is still too busy thats fine too, in this case I am helping him by posting his unwritten return policy in this thread and possibly future threads. I want people to know that tre has a no returns policy, and it will ultimately help him avoid customer dissapointment.

OTOH, why should he? He's never specifically catered to the GW market.
Quite the opposite, actually. And really, pretty much every other game (excluding PP's stuff, though I've seen modified RBG zombies used in a cryx army as some kind of thralls, I believe, to great effect!) and minis company at 28mm works in a style more like this.
Used to Reaper? well, many of their stuff will fit this better. Mantic? Dead on. Good ol' Rackham? I'm lead to believe they're more in this scale as well. Any 'old school' tabletop adventures mini company? more like these in scale.

Really, you're asking him to cater to, essentially, the exception in the market (remember, these things are meant primarily for RPGs, not wargames...) even though he makes no allusions to that exception himself?

I'd say having pics of minis next to a ruler up on the site is always good - I love that about Reaper, for example. But to say he should have that disclaimer? Really, screw that! it's based on a bogus assumption you'd better drop already.
GW is not the one and only gold standard for all minis ever and if it took you this much to discover that well, get out from under that rock

 warboss wrote:

dodicula wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
But to expect a one-man show who is both sculpting, packing, shipping, and doing customer service to be able to have the same policies as a company who Only fulfills orders is asking a bit much imo.

I disagree, here's privateers return policy :
http://store.privateerpress.com/returnpolicy.aspx, is 3 sentences really that hard to write, even for a one business, posting three sentence on a plain web page is not a big deal.

***snip***

Also note, I was forthright and polite from the very beginning with Tre, and there was no angry tirades at any time during our exchanges. That is not my style, and if there is any hyperbole or sarcasm/unwelcome witt, it is from Tre, not me (both earlier in this thread and in our email exchange)
Ultimately I did not launch a dispute because even though I would probably win (buyer almost always wins from what I hear) I felt it was unjust to take money from someone without agreement or an impartial judge. However, I feel I am well within my rights to tell people that my experience with Red-Box games was poor, and that the miniatures appear smaller than they seem, and tell people what his return policy is (as he will not do it himself) and may continue to do so.

You're missing the point about RiTides quote which is that it's likely a one man show over at Red Box Games.. which is decidedly not the case with your Privateer Press example (who make the second largest selling minis game on the market). While I agree that you were forthright in your reasons for a refund, that doesn't mean you should get one. RBG is not responsible for your assumptions about their products that are in no way stated or hinted at on their site. They don't make GW sized monster-handed exaggerated style scale figures nor do they claim to. They're not responsible for stuff you come up with on your own with your imagination nor should they have to pay a monetary price for it when they don't live up to what they never claimed.

I can buy a set of winged gargoyles from a company but that doesn't mean I deserve a refund when I let go of the mini and they don't fly. Baseless assumptions =/= valid reason for a refund.

Its not unreasonable to have a refund policy on an item I can't see before buying. Its not unreasonable for me to expect miniatures to be the size shown on the site (I have bought miniatures from many many manufacturers and have NEVER had this problem before). If you read through the thread there were other people who did not expect tres miniatures to be so small either. I am not expecting my zombies to "fly" or "rise from the dead" I am expecting them to be broadly compatible with my miniatures which come from GW, Malifaux, Privateer Press, Rackham, Reaper and probably a few companies I am forgetting).

Again, in the end I accepted his no refunds policy (I did not dispute the transaction), he has a right to do it under law (I supposes). I do have a right however, to a) publicize Red-Box-Games no-refunds policy, b) to relate to others my experience dealing with Red-Box-Games c) to tell people that in my opinion Tre does not portray his undead minis accurately.

I agree with you that any company should post their refund/return policy for viewing, and I also believe you have a right to express your opinion about your transaction.

But honestly I must disagree about the undead; his undead are portrayed pretty accurately. They're emaciated 28mm figures; skin stretched over bones.

In general, Tre's figures are perfectly sized as true 28mm figures - such as Lord of the Rings, which is also true 28mm:
http://azazelx.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/red-box-games-size-comparisons-with-gw-lord-of-the-rings-figures/
http://richmondwarmancers.blogspot.com/2012/12/january-releases-and-red-box-games.html

It is not unreasonable to assume pictures of miniatures on websites aren't actual size as they will vary with monitor size, may have been zoomed to show detail, forshortened due to optical effect from the nagle the photo was taken, etc, etc ad nauseam. Assuming something is a particular size without research is going to lead to disappointment. It's not like in the age of the Internet you can't send the vendor an email (at no cost) to confirm size erc to make sure a purchase fits your project.

I think we've wandered far enough afield in here - everyone should now be aware of both RBG's miniature scale and return policy.

Please keep this thread on topic - RBG's Kickstarter.

Thanks!

So, I don't suppose there is any chance of getting some rough concept art of what is coming with the next KS is there, Tre? I kind of want to drop my gaming budget on Kingdom Death, in the same way I kind of want to do lines of coke off the thighs of hookers, but I am totally in love with the RBG models I own, and was sad to miss this last KS. I could avoid my deviant ways and save the money for some RBG lovin' if I knew what was coming

Dodicula, you have every right to post as you say. However, in this forum you can only post the same thing so many times until it becomes repetitive and derailing to the thread, and thus off-topic.

I get your point and I'm sure many a lurker do as well. However, at this point continuing to repeat it would be inappropriate.

Certainly, if this issue comes up again you'd have every right to repeat it. But for now the point has been made.

Tre does not accept returns, and did not do so in your case. The facts are out there. Belaboring them anymore is pointless, I think.

Edit: Whoops, Alpharius already addressed this (didn't notice with the page rollover). Feel free to edit out if necessary (I'm on my phone)




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Wehr, I know right!? I'm very curious about what's upcoming, and the RBG models you have that I've seen are awesome!

 Wehrkind wrote:
So, I don't suppose there is any chance of getting some rough concept art of what is coming with the next KS is there, Tre? I kind of want to drop my gaming budget on Kingdom Death, in the same way I kind of want to do lines of coke off the thighs of hookers, but I am totally in love with the RBG models I own, and was sad to miss this last KS. I could avoid my deviant ways and save the money for some RBG lovin' if I knew what was coming

Well if you like the goblin models, they'll be reappearing at the very least!

Yep for now the primary focus of the next RBG KS campaign will be retooling the Aenglish first, Goblins second, and Dvergr third. I HOPE that we can get to the Infernals and the Aelfar as well but I am most concerned with retooling those first three sooner rather than later. Also I would prefer to save the Aelfar and the Njorn for a separate campaign focused solely on those lines.

Most of the goals for the campaign will be existign stuff, btu I am going to work up some new stuff for each of those three to add in to the campaign.

I mostly want to expand the Aenglish ranks with a rank of Hillander conscripts and long bowmen, and the Goblins with Wolf riders, the footmen, and a new version of Bloodmaw and Horsebane. And then finally for the Dvergr I want to expand the footmen with at least 6 more figures and add a new set of berserkers.

I HOPE we will make it to that mark. We shall see though.

No concept arts yet though.... at least that i will show.

a new Bloodmaw and Horsebane? hopefully they'll look sufficiently different enough that I can use both of them simultaneously. have you given thought to doing a few sculpts of them, sort of like goblin-bear-shock-cavalry?

Countdown to the 2nd RBG KS has begun!

Where's the countdown?

How much time until it starts?

No firm dates yet

the art is from a new post in the Red Box Games forum

http://red-box-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.msg0#new

Edited to correct forum name mistake pointed out below (thanks)

The KD Forum?

Found a followup post from Tre that does give a tentative start date


"Going over the plan and checking numbers and wording..... I am going to be REALLY careful about this this time around. Maybe some time this weekend? Or maybe Monday at the latest."

Interesting... Seems like it would make sense to let KD end. Or maybe he hopes to tempt a few people not to spend all their money on that one

Hopefully all current backers' stuff ships/arrives before new campaign ends!

I'll certainly 'placeholder' to start with

then see what the stuff I'm waiting for looks like before spending big again (if I can find the cash by the end)

although I could be persuaded by other KS-1 backers posting pictures too

sigh, I was meant to be cutting down on KS spending

Do we have a collection of photos so far?

Here's one with some assembled minis:

(http://richmondwarmancers.blogspot.ca/2012/12/january-releases-and-red-box-games.html)

Hopefully I'll get my RBG:KS1 pledge in before KS2 finishes. Not in a "how dare Tre be running something new!" way, I just know that all the races he's planning to touch on aren't must haves for me like the Helsvakt so I'll need to be familiar and happy with the product before I can persuade myself to jump in.

I am quite certain that his goblins will be nothing short of amazing! I hope we can get a preview on them in Trollcast, to see how the details on something that small is.

Yeah, the original little spear and archer goblins have been on my someday list since I first saw them.

 plastictrees wrote:
Hopefully I'll get my RBG:KS1 pledge in before KS2 finishes. Not in a "how dare Tre be running something new!" way, I just know that all the races he's planning to touch on aren't must haves for me like the Helsvakt so I'll need to be familiar and happy with the product before I can persuade myself to jump in.

I think it will be bad to start a 2nd KS when most of us have not received the miniatures from the 1st one. I will not pledge until I get my stuff from the 1st one.

Mahrdol wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Hopefully I'll get my RBG:KS1 pledge in before KS2 finishes. Not in a "how dare Tre be running something new!" way, I just know that all the races he's planning to touch on aren't must haves for me like the Helsvakt so I'll need to be familiar and happy with the product before I can persuade myself to jump in.

I think it will be bad to start a 2nd KS when most of us have not received the miniatures from the 1st one. I will not pledge until I get my stuff from the 1st one.

Hopefully Tre will have seen how much Catyperllius, myself, and others harped on Necros for starting the 2nd Blackwater Gultch Kickstarter before shipping *ANY* of the first one's rewards...

He has shipped some

at the last count it looked like 600 ish of 759 outstanding

was going to let him get a fair few away

it's just going to end up with those like me getting the horsies left

I can actually see this as a reasonable time to start (given he'd originally hoped for November/December),

folk may be Xmas poor, BUT that probably means none of the big potential competitors will start now

It's likely also a matter of slotting the work into Ed's schedule over at troll forged.

In a perfect world, the horsies show up at Tre's at the start of next week, and folks in the US start posting up awesome photos while the new kickstarter runs, generating interest etc...

 tre manor wrote:



ETA for the rest of the KS stuff...... I think I am getting some this week and some next week but those horses ARE going to take some time to cast.

Scipio, I am just waiting for the pill bases on the wolves and for one of the waiting forms of the Varp.

I'm guessing that we're not going to have horses in hand for at least a month based on this.

well I guess, Tre can you give us a current update? literally what models are left to actually get casts made of?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tre just posted on the RBG forum: "Tentatively right now the first up are goign to be Cuthbert, Fergus, and the Wraith Knights. I need to confirm with Ed first and go over the plan again but this looks liek the best way forward. Cuthbert and Fergus will be character choices, the Wratih Knights will be a rank choice. I am going to be bouncing back and forth between the Aenglish and the Infernals at first and then move on to the Goblins. Got to get back to work for nwo."

there is also some sentiment on the RBG forum that some people won't back until they get their stuff from the first KS, so I'm hoping Ed is casting those horses ASAP for Tre. I want the new KS to succeed phenomenally so every backer counts.

 judgedoug wrote:
well I guess, Tre can you give us a current update? literally what models are left to actually get casts made of?

This is what Tre wrote on the RBG forums:

I got another 2 boxes on Christmas Eve!!! I have nto had time to really QC yet but thus far it all looks really great! I now have Svetlana, Morgrimn A +B, the Hordesmen, Red Olga, and Blutulf which means there are a LOT more orders that can be shipped now! I am VERY sorry that this is taking as long as it has but this is the nature of the beast. Production issues arise at every link int he chain and they just take time to power through. I assure yo uall though that we are all workign very hard to make this happen as quickly and properly as possible.

I like these minis a lot but missed on the Kickstarter before.

I was interested in buying some of the Zombies. However, I don't see them on the Red Box online store. If I understand correctly, they were in this Kickstarter. Does anyone know whether they are/will be available more widely?

The zombies will become available (in Trollcast) when Tre has the KS orders done (and has time to update the site)

The older metal casts are sold out (along with most of his store at the moment)

Ok, thanks for letting me know. I'm glad I'll be able to get them in the future. So, I'll be patient. Have some elves and Space Marines to be painting for the moment anyway.

 Magos Explorator wrote:
I like these minis a lot but missed on the Kickstarter before.

I was interested in buying some of the Zombies. However, I don't see them on the Red Box online store. If I understand correctly, they were in this Kickstarter. Does anyone know whether they are/will be available more widely?

if you look on the previous page, Dodicula is selling his Zombies for what he paid for them (he has the metal versions if you'd prefer that to the plastic/resin trollcast). The re-release of the zombies will only be in trollcast, the metal ones won't be made anymore.

I'd prefer to wait for the plastic/resin, but thanks for the heads-up.

Its a little disappointing to see the new campaign about to launch when the majority of people haven't received their items from the previous KS. I had at least one of every model from the Helsvakt KS included in my pledge, and judging by what Tre has been saying about the horsemen there is a very good chance that i won't receive my order until after this new campaign is finished.

I really don't know if i will back this new campaign, im a big fan of Tre but at this point i've already backed 3 'Trollcast' KS campaigns and spent $600-$700 on miniatures produced in a material that i have yet to experience first hand...

Mr Gutsy wrote:
Its a little disappointing to see the new campaign about to launch when the majority of people haven't received their items from the previous KS. I had at least one of every model from the Helsvakt KS included in my pledge, and judging by what Tre has been saying about the horsemen there is a very good chance that i won't receive my order until after this new campaign is finished.

I really don't know if i will back this new campaign, im a big fan of Tre but at this point i've already backed 3 'Trollcast' KS campaigns and spent $600-$700 on miniatures produced in a material that i have yet to experience first hand...

I back RBG KS campaigns because I want to support RBG. The miniatures are a nice bonus. I don't know Tre's reasons for rushing out the next KS campaign, unless he wants to get the retool done as quickly as is manageable. I do think that finishing one task completely before moving on to a new one is usually a pretty good idea. But, when it comes to Tre Manor, my confidence is 100%.

I wanted horses in my pledge rewards, and the horses are taking some time, understandably enough. Frankly I am astonished by the alacrity with which the pieces have gone from concept art on a KS page to finished models in the mail. As far as I am concerned, the turnaround has been rather remarkable. It wasn't as fast as Tre wanted or hoped, but it was a whole hell of a lot faster than I ever expected. He's clearly working his butt off and delivering on his promises, which is par for the course with Red Box Games.

Hopefully Tre realizes this and either sets the campaign with a long run-time, or just gets on Ed and gets those horses done.

If he's had boxes sitting since Christmas Eve, though (I know it's the holidays but still, this thing's behind schedule!) I'm not sure even getting casts really soon would ensure that everyone (particularly international folks) would receive their packages in time.

But I'm in the same boat, I pledged for Ed's kickstarter (a Lot!) and a small amount on Imbrian Arts. I really want to see this stuff and make sure I like it a Lot better than Finecast before I get too much of it.

That said I might be interested in a few gobbos... assuming this doesn't end at the very Very start of February (hopefully more like mid-Feb).

Well my intentions are to run this campaign for 35 days. MAYBE 40 just to be sure that everyone who pledged to the previous KS campaign has their product in hand before this next KS ends.

The stuff that has been sitting is waiting for stuff that I don't have just yet. Ed informs me that he shipped two more big boxes yesterday so I should have a LOT more stuff come monday or tuesday.

These boxes should contain; COnradt's Warp Form and Weapons, the awaited " waiting " Varp warrior, a sampling of the pill bases for the Cav and Wolves, Yrsa and Fenris and more hordesmen.

This means there will be a LOT more packages going out next week. Thus far the reactions I have received from bakcers whom have recieved their rewards has been very positive. I woudl nto carry through with this next Campaign unless I was VERY confident in Ed's product and service.

One reason why this is happening now rather than later is because I need to get my foot in the door so-to-speak if I want to use Ed's material. He has only the best of intentions and an incredible work ethic, BUT he is onyl human and there is only so much he can do so if I want to use his product and service I HAVE to pay for his time before someone else does and his time is getting filled VERY quickly.

Now I have the advantage that we had prior agreement for this to take place, BUT he still has bills to pay and a family to take care of and now Brian is part of the equation as well. Not to mention there are a lot of peopel who's business I am losing because I cleaned out my metal stock for replacement with Trollcast.

So I find myself at a now or never moment.

No problem Tre,

Even If I don't get the horses before the KS ends I'll probably dip in for at least some goblins... All the images of the casts starting to show up are very encouraging

(If you & ed do manage to get them too me it'll be easier to rationalise going big though)

PArcels to the UK tedn to take abotu 2 weeks to arrive. I am expecting to have the horses in the next week or so so you shoudl get yours before the KS ends.

Fantastic news,

You and Ed have done yourselves proud with the post KS service in terms of keeping us in touch with whats going on

what with your stuff and Sedition wars due real soon I may end up with shiny new mini poisoning!

Another review of the new material over on Tre's forums:

timmowit wrote:
I was in something of a financial pickle at the time of the first RBG KS and so went in for the enda/$8 pledge (just to show willing). After a tough choice I elected to have the Blutulf model and a little package from duly arrived Flowood, MS this very day (I'm in the UK). Tre requested feedback on his latest creations, so I would like to comply here.

Like Doomrunner72 (see elsewhere on this thread) I found that a number of the weapons on the hand/weapon sprues had snapped off in transit (see image below). Not a major problem, but I think that foam padding in the blister the model arrived in might have prevented such breakages. This material is certainly not as delicate as 'straight' resin, but even-so it is not as tough as metal and extra packaging is essential. Likewise a spike on Blutulf's left gauntlet had snapped clean-off. Again, not an issue and something that better protection would have averted. As I wrote the material itself is good: hardy (for a 'resin') and holding detail superbly. I for one am not put off by this change and feel that once packaging issues are addressed then things will be all good.

By the way, cracking mini, isn't he? On with KS 2!

Hmm, three out of ten weapons snapped I'd call an 'issue' slightly more than that reviewer does, apparently. Still, aside from what is an easily fixed packing issue that does look *superb*, especially at these prices

That is great to hear, Tre (about getting everything to people before KS2 ends, and the 35-40 day runtime). 40 would be best for me . I'll be in for some goblins I believe

Ye, this Trollforge material is looking HUGE!

Found an old thread full of goblin pics

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295994.page

I, in particular, enjoy the spearmen and the archers. But I am looking forward to the other previously unreleased miniatures that Tre has mentioned will be included.

Agreed, those 6 spearmen and 3 archers look great. If he makes some wolf riders, they may be irresistible!

Oh man, that makes me even more excited for my bonebacks multipack! I can't wait to see which ones it has

It doesn't come with all of them? Was that in the last campaign?

Not part of the original campaign, it's just a retail multipack of the bonebacks that I bought. I just don't know what counts as a boneback lol

Bonebacks are the big huling goblin berserkers. Basicly my Orc Stand ins whiel I figured out what iw asnted the RBG orcs to be.

There are 12 of them and 8 have universally interchangeable weapons. In the next KS all of them will have interchangeable weapons.

I like the bonebacks but think I'm partial to the regular ones

Recruittons, post pics when you can!

Totally will!

First painted troll cast RGB figure that I am aware of popped up on Tre's forums (http://red-box-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=67.msg2679#msg2679):

glazed over wrote:
Cheers guys.

Got my Kickstarter on Friday, so I painted the first of my Gynnade Krigare over the last couple of days.

A quick job for me! Fairly happy with how it has turned out considering the time spent.

That is very nice indeed

 Bolognesus wrote:
OTOH, why should he? He's never specifically catered to the GW market.
Good ol' Rackham? I'm lead to believe they're more in this scale as well.

Rackham's stuff is/was actually bigger than GW, though much was cross-compatable.

Having a disclaimer or at least a ruler picture is a good idea. The Helsvakt look like Not-Chaos Warriors. People will buy them assuming they are the same size as the GW models. There will be more of this, and it's easily avoidable. In particular like to see a proper sizing of the Wraith Knights compared to something (at least a ruler) since I have a potential specific gaming use for them, but it will depend on their size. Especially if they're potentially in this next Kickstarter.

 plastictrees wrote:

 tre manor wrote:

ETA for the rest of the KS stuff...... I think I am getting some this week and some next week but those horses ARE going to take some time to cast.
Scipio, I am just waiting for the pill bases on the wolves and for one of the waiting forms of the Varp.

I'm guessing that we're not going to have horses in hand for at least a month based on this.

Not to mention all the other stuff if you live outside the US...

 judgedoug wrote:

there is also some sentiment on the RBG forum that some people won't back until they get their stuff from the first KS, so I'm hoping Ed is casting those horses ASAP for Tre.

There's also this. Gutsy said it well, actually. I'll probably pledge but will likely pull it at the last minute if I don't have my last figures in hand. I want to see what Trollcast is like in hand before spending any more money on it.

weeble1000 wrote:

I back RBG KS campaigns because I want to support RBG. The miniatures are a nice bonus.

This doesn't actually make any sense and is a rather silly statement. Why not just give Tre' a percentage of your income? Or send him a few hundred bucks as a gift every so often. I personally spent more than I would have in the last KS because I also want to support Tre, but the miniatures purchase was and still is the raison d'etre.


edit - Wraith Knights.

Unless there's some upfront "Early Bird" levels that I'll grab to just hold a place, I'll probably wait till near the end to give it a chance for stuff to show up in AU.

I'm pretty confident there's nothing to worry about, but having backed Mantic, Reaper et all, I have to have something in hand to show the wife before any more mini purchases are authorized.

Reminds me I need to tidy up the paint station and get back into the Mantic stuff. I've let everything slip as I'm transferring paint into new bottles which is more like work and not painting so it's been put on the backburner sigh.

There's a thread on RBG's site about Trollforged and breakages.

http://red-box-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=148.0

Seeing the air bubbles and breakages and whatnot in that thread makes me a bit dubious. Of course people in that thread are doing the "we love you, Tre'!" dance, as you tend to find on official forums, but just imagine the reaction if those same figures were from GW/Finecast(!)

I'll be looking at my figures very carefully when they arrive, and unless there's an "early bird" to grab as a placeholder, I'll be waiting to see what the condition of my first KS figures is like.

The pics in that thread look pretty decent to me (as far as not having that many air bubbles, etc). In any resin-like material you're going to have some of these issues, imo. But obviously I'll be watching closely.

 scipio.au wrote:
In particular like to see a proper sizing of the Wraith Knights compared to something (at least a ruler) since I have a potential specific gaming use for them, but it will depend on their size. Especially if they're potentially in this next Kickstarter.
.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l126/bluesabre/Red%20Box%20Games/photo1.jpg

Wraith next to a mantic skeleton if that helps.

czakk wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
In particular like to see a proper sizing of the Wraith Knights compared to something (at least a ruler) since I have a potential specific gaming use for them, but it will depend on their size. Especially if they're potentially in this next Kickstarter.
.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l126/bluesabre/Red%20Box%20Games/photo1.jpg

Wraith next to a mantic skeleton if that helps.

Thank you, I think I have a few of those Mantic skellies somewhere, but I have no idea where as I just moved house. I'll keep looking and perhaps ask Tre for a ruler shot if I can't find another pic.

 scipio.au wrote:
There's a thread on RBG's site about Trollforged and breakages.

http://red-box-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=148.0

Seeing the air bubbles and breakages and whatnot in that thread makes me a bit dubious. Of course people in that thread are doing the "we love you, Tre'!" dance, as you tend to find on official forums, but just imagine the reaction if those same figures were from GW/Finecast(!)

I'll be looking at my figures very carefully when they arrive, and unless there's an "early bird" to grab as a placeholder, I'll be waiting to see what the condition of my first KS figures is like.

I don't see any of Tre's figures having Fun Noodle swords or looking like they took a faceful of shotgun pellet. (my experiences with Finecast)

The downside to not using metal is that when pressure is applied to the plastic, it breaks the weapon haft, instead of bending it around. The properties of metal is just something everyone got used to over the many years (1990 or so for me) - bending spears back, scraping and filing mold lines, clipping off the mold vent snake things, etc. While it sucks there's some breakages - that's a packaging problem that Tre can hopefully iron out; and some underside bubbles need to be brought to Ed's attention because they're not casting something right. Tre is very receptive on the forums, even asking everyone to post all feedback because he wants to make sure the switch from metal to Trollcast is the right one. Now, I'd love for Tre to have a KS where he's partnered with Wargames Factory and makes hard plastic Gynnade Krigare...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tre on Red Box Games forums wrote:
Guys please remember that feedback, HONEST feedback is like gold to me. I NEED to knwo any problems or concerns you guys have. I am gambling my livliehood and reputation on this stuff so it needs to be right. Don't be shy and don't fret that it will hurt my feelings.

I am REALLY looking forward to that PJ Glazedover!

Gareth, thanks man! Yours shoudl have been in a baggie inside the clamshell. The baggies does not put any pressure on the model itself and also does not allow it to move at all. It looks terrible on shelves but it works FAR better than foam.

My very lovely and wonderful Wife has been helping out with the packaging and shipping and she is still coming to grips with the process, and I took it for granted that she could handle more it than she should have on her own without more help from me in the beginning so she did not know that she needed baggies AND clamshells. That however does not completely explain the problems. I think that these Gynnade defects are primarily a fault of design. When I made them I made for metal that means that those spikes do not have to be super thick and blunt to resist damage, enter Trollcast and suddenly those spikes DO need to be thick and blunted. Ed has done a TREMENDOUS job in getting these parts to cast as well as they have and to tell the truth it makes me VERY confident in the other retools. These Armoured elites are as difficult as it gets in terms of moulding, casting, handling, and shipping. If we can make these work as well as they do the other parts are goign to be cake.

one other thing I have been meaning to warn people about is that every once in a while you might get a part with a patch of wierd texture somewhere on the surface. This is usually just mold release residue and can be scraped off with your fingernail. Some of the round shields had a lot of if but it literally does just scrape righ toff with no underlying damage. I tried to catch all of it and fix it myself but I am certain I missed some. If yo uget one of these parts and it does NOT scrape right off then please let me know so I can replace it.

as for the set up on the Gynnade weapons..... yeh I had originally sculpted the hands directly on and then decided it woudl make for easier fittign to plug the hand into a wrist socket with the weapon being a singl epice with the hands...... I have learned my lesson.

Also I am thinking that I may cast certain parts in metal in the future ( the weapon sprues mostly. ) and just let he weapons always pug into the hands.

Someone has posted photos of some partially converted / assembled Aenglish up:

http://imageshack.us/g/856/dscf0007hg.jpg/V

Update #44 fulfillment Update
Update #44 · Jan. 07, 2013 · 6 comments

Just got another two big boxes full of stuff from Ed today! More Hordesmen, More Morgrimn ( both forms! ) More Svetlana's, pill base samples, and that last Varp. This means there are a good 200 more packages that will be shipping out over the week this week.

Incidentally.... the pill bases look a bit big for the wolves so it may be best to pop them onto rounds after all. Sorry for the wait on these guys.

Cheers!

Tre'

Yeah, I read that on the RBG forums. Honestly, I have concerns about stuff like this and how it may affect the details on Tre's existing/retooled/future figures.

I think that these Gynnade defects are primarily a fault of design. When I made them I made for metal that means that those spikes do not have to be super thick and blunt to resist damage, enter Trollcast and suddenly those spikes DO need to be thick and blunted.

Really though, I will be looking closely at them when they eventually arrive and giving feedback. Why would I not?

All the production molds are finished:

Creator tre manor 19 minutes ago


As for what is left yet. I was actually expecting Yrsa today but found none. That may be in the next parcels. Other than that Ed informs me today that all production molds are done! So that means we are in the home stretch! Teh onyl castigns I am waiting for now are Yrsa, COnradt's warp form, and the Riders."

I'm still surprised there hasn't been more reviews / paint jobs of what Tre has sent out so far. Only seen 2-3 hands on with the mini's so far. I know as soon as I get them I'll be putting up some photo's, basing one of them and starting a WiP.

Unfortunately I won't be getting my hands on them for a while though. Still hasn't stopped me from checking KS every once in a while to see if Tre has put anything up

Seriously. I've been clearing out my painting projects rapidly so I can focus just on the Helsvakt figs I am waiting for. Those and the Scibor, Avatars of War, and Darklands minotaurs that will be their buddies in the Helsvakt army.

I'm glad he decided not to start his KS the day KD:M ended!

I thought he'd be putting it up today, though (if not today I guess tomorrow?)

Perhaps the arrival of a couple of hundred orders worth of stuff from Ed meant fulfillment got prioritized.

Hard to pack orders and answer the tons of questions / updates you need to do to run a ks campaign at the same time for a one man shop.

Great point! That probably is the case

Just got my shipment from the FRP Games end of the world sale. Bought Bonebreaker Multipacks A, C, Basher and Mama Rotbelly - wow, these guys are smaller than I thought but man are they awesome!

Love these crazy guys - think I'll make a Mordheim warband with them as my little savage goblins.

Thanks Tre!

I love the Mama Rotbelly figure. She's so damn tiny but so full of character. And yeah, the bonebacks are pretty much the best goblin sculpts on the planet.

I actually got my Bonebacks multipack from FRP, as well, and this thing is amazing! The sculpts are gorgeous (a bit small, as has already been said), but even standing next to Reaper stuff, they would make amazing goblins in any setting .

Once I finish assembling and cleaning them, I'll post up a picture for you, RiTides!

Glad you guys like them. Remember that the runty gobs are smaller than the Bonebacks. Teh bonebacks are a pet project of mine. I LOVE sculpting them. If the KS manages to fund the retool of the BB then I plan to make a Bone back Hero, musician and standard bearer to go with them.

As for the order fulfillment, It turned out that there were a lot less orders that I could fill than I thought. MOST of the orders I WOULD have been able to fill have at least Yrsa, or Fenris, or Conradt's warp form on the list. It is very frustrating but this is just the nature of a beast this big.

I am accustomed to production delays with smaller orders. This siteh first time I have ever undertaken such a HUGE job. The size of the project also exacerbates every single problem. Also me not living near enough to the production to see the casts first hand before hundreds of them are run is also a bit of a PITA. We will get there but it is goign to take time to get this right.

AS for the next KS campaign. I have talked with Ed and it seems that running one now is a good idea. I still need to be CERTAIN of these pledges and rewards first and find and smash as many of the bugs as possible though. I will be workign ont hat today and probably submitting the campaign tomorrow. SO I think that put sus out by 2 or 3 days.

Well, having these amazing little guys in hand (as well as Wilhelm the Sure), I really want in on the next project. I don't really have the funds to go big, but I will definitely get SOMETHING

My order had a bit of almost everything, so I guess it will be one of the last to be shipped.

 Erasoketa wrote:
My order had a bit of almost everything, so I guess it will be one of the last to be shipped.

Me too. Only thing that I didn't get was cavalry. I got at least one of everything else though.

The waiting is killing me... Lol.

~Eric

I gave in, and bought some bonebacks on ebay. It looks like they were originally sold in packs of 4 (i.e. three different packs of 4, for 12 models total)?

Anyway, I think I'll be getting all 12, and if one of you haven't posted pics before I do, I'm going to be upset

Planning to use them as hobgoblins to go with my Greebo volmarian chaos dwarfs for blood bowl (and needed them sooner than the kickstarter will allow, since our league starts next month).

@RiTides: I finished arming and basing all of my bonebacks today, so once I've primed them, I'll snap a few pics and put them up for you! These are metal, though, so no tasty Trollcast for you to check out

Appreciated and metal is good!

Yeah, I read that on the RBG forums. Honestly, I have concerns about stuff like this and how it may affect the details on Tre's existing/retooled/future figures.

I missed that the first tiem I read through..... To ease your mind, the problem with the Gynnade particularly is that the spikes are difficult to cast in metal as well. Metal is stronger, meanign that instead of breakign off the larger model they simply bend and can be bent back into shape. While with the troll cast if they were a little thicker they woudl be just fine. I just should have made the spikes thicker and shorter is all. There have been no problems with the Aenglish Footmen or heroes, or any of the other models so far as I am informed so I think that the rest of the line will cast far easier than the gynnade have.

Taarnak wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
My order had a bit of almost everything, so I guess it will be one of the last to be shipped.

Me too. Only thing that I didn't get was cavalry. I got at least one of everything else though.

The waiting is killing me... Lol.

~Eric

Yep. Me three, sans cavalry. I guess that'll add another month+ to my fulfillment times and keep me out of the next KS entirely then.


Particularly with stuff like this on the forums reporting on the Trollcast:

I had a closer look at my Blutulf and Svetlana today, and I'm sorry to say that they both have some problems. Based on what you said I thought it would be worth letting you know.

The sculpts are great! No problems there! It's just the casting that seems to have some issues.

With Blutulf, apart from some missing spikes (no big deal), the fur cape is extremely thin in some places so that it's transparent if you hold it up to the light and actually has some holes that I don't think were meant to be there. I can fix it, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

The main problem with him though is that the mould line runs right through his face. I think my copy has a very small mould slip which wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't in such a critical place. Sadly, he has ended up with rather asymmetrical features and a bit of a step on his forehead.

With Svetlana, her left knee appears to be missing completely, although there are some odd bumps in this area. She also has a weird problem with her lower lip, which has a step in it (it looks like mould slip, but it can't be because the mould line doesn't run there).

Tre' kindly offered to send the guy replacements, which is good. But there's no way I'm putting more money out there for this material without actually having it in hand to examine closely.

Sometimes you've just got to take a leap of faith.

grefven wrote:
Sometimes you've just got to take a leap of faith.

We did.

And now we are waiting to see the results of that leap before we jump again.

~Eric

I have been lurking on this thread for a while now just so I can see how well the Trollcast is holding up due to me funding the Trollforged KS itself. I have to say that I am impressed with what I have seen so far and am confident that this is a material I will be satisfied with, not to mention that Tre will be sculpting his own models with Trollcast specifically in mind!

Taarnak wrote:

grefven wrote:
Sometimes you've just got to take a leap of faith.

We did.

And now we are waiting to see the results of that leap before we jump again.

~Eric

Good post. I've leapt twice for Trollcast now for around $400 in total. If you (grevfen) want to pay for my next leap, I'll PM you my PayPal details

I am now considering if the bonebacks would work as hobgoblins for an actual chaos dwarf army (not just for blood bowl). I'm sure they're small, as Everyone says but since they're bigger than Tre's other tiny gobbos, maybe they'll work.

I will know much better when I get to look at them in-person, hopefully next week (I just realized I overpaid via ebay to FRP, as they have the clearance on their site... but they didn't have one of the packs I ordered on their site, only on ebay, so hopefully it's worth it!).

@RiTides: Okay, I've got some pics for you! They are really not good, but one of them has a pretty standard Reaper model, so you can get a good feel for the size, I think.







I hope this helps! They are some incredibly detailed models and their faces are worth it alone. No joke!

Sweet, thanks for posting them

Here's a blog I found of some painted ones and some size comparisons:

http://sixtwentyeight.blogspot.com/2011/02/red-box-hobgoblins-28mm.html

I think between these and the ones recruittons posted, that is all 12 sculpts (three different packs of 4 models each). I think this guy mixed the two packs in the photos since I don't think one pack comes with 3 models all in the same pose (like in the second pic).

Are those 20mm square bases, recruittons? If these are Tre's stand-ins for orcs while he decided what to do for orcs (as he mentioned), I think they'll make perfect hobgoblins for fantasy

Yup! The squares are all 20mm. One of them is even based on a penny! His feet touch both edges. I also used a couple of 1 inch diameter wooden discs, those gave me a lot of room around the feet, though.

 scipio.au wrote:

Taarnak wrote:

grefven wrote:
Sometimes you've just got to take a leap of faith.

We did.

And now we are waiting to see the results of that leap before we jump again.

~Eric

Good post. I've leapt twice for Trollcast now for around $400 in total. If you (grevfen) want to pay for my next leap, I'll PM you my PayPal details

Err.. Maybe not.

Tre, for your kickstarter please consider an option to have all/only goblins. I think that may have put me off of Mantic's (getting a lot of free models I had no interest in) and being able to buy "just ranks" instead of characters may be what I'm after (although I'll likely add in a character or two, I'd like a pledge level for just ranks).

Not sure how many "ranks" the 12 bonebacks sculpts would count as (hopefully just 1-2? ) or if you're doing it a different way this time.

Anyway, can't wait! Not only for your to start the KS, but for you to offer up the goblins which I hope will be either at or near the beginning. Maybe listing them on the page even if we're not to that level yet, etc.

RiTides, here's a Tre quote:

"Tentatively right now the first up are goign to be Cuthbert, Fergus, and the Wraith Knights. I need to confirm with Ed first and go over the plan again but this looks liek the best way forward. Cuthbert and Fergus will be character choices, the Wratih Knights will be a rank choice. I am going to be bouncing back and forth between the Aenglish and the Infernals at first and then move on to the Goblins. Got to get back to work for nwo. "

" One thing I am goign to be up-front about though is it is VERY likely that there will not be any Njorn or Aelfar in this campaign. Both of these are goign to be their own KS campaigns after this retool campaign is fulfilled."

"And as far as goblins go...... Wolf Riders = BIG yes. "

So, Yes on Ranks, and the Bonebacks I would guess would be either 4 or 6 models per rank.

I am crossing my fingers that Tre makes both hand-weapon/spear and archer Wolf Riders.

And Tre... howsabout rereleasing the Trolls like Rocklobber and Hogsquasher in Trollcast? I didn't get around to purchasing them and I love their sculpts.

Yeh the bonebacks will be in the early stages of the KS. I am a little worried about the goblin spearmen and archers though. They may be too thin front to back. I will probably bite the bullet and pay for the mould on those to make SURE they work before putting them through the KS to fund casting. Teh footmen are a little thicker than the spearmen front to back so I am nto worried about them at all.

Wolfriders..... well I REALLY want them to be in there but they will be amoung the last items as I want to retool as MUCH as possible of the Aenglish, the Wratih knights, the horrors, the troll brothers, and the dwarves as well. MAYBE the dwarves.

I also do nto want to completely overwhelm Ed. The guy is made of solid gold and bless him if he won't work himself to death trying to make everyone happy, I just don't want him to!

Okay, I'm excited about the bonebacks . I will likely be getting a whole heap to use as hobgoblins, then! (Hopefully they are 6 to a rank!)

I would love to see some wolf riders, so I hope we make it there.

I'm not worried about the smaller goblins not making it into this campaign- I think you have a good plan to either pay for the mold yourself for them, or possibly just leave them in metal.

You'd mentioned another bear riding goblin sculpt (I forget his name). Is a re-tool of the original, and a sculpt of a new version going to be in the kickstarter (and if so, early or late)? I think you'll have a ton of us wanting to buy him both versions, actually!

If the Trolls are in there I may be VERY tempted to hop on this Kickstarter.

The trolls WILL be inthere if the funding opportunity is there.

Rankls on the Bonebacks..... Well there may not be 12 total. I am havign soem trouble runnign down the masters for the first 4 so I may only retool the second 8. If I do that will be one " set ".

This KS is going to go by " sets " rather than ranks and heroes. You will be able to buy heroes individually or as a set of several ( the sets are specific though. ) but the " ranks " are sets in and of themselves. So there will be a set for ALL of the goblins, a set for the archers, a set for the spearmen, a set for the footmen and a set for the bonebacks. The troll brothers will be classed as 2 heroes each. All sets will have the same price point ( which i am still tryign to nail down ) and all heroes will have the same price point ( which I am also still trying to nail down. ) I want this campaign to be as clear as possible.

I am not sure about Bloodmaw and Horsebane. I have never been happy with that sculpt but if people really want it who am I to with hold it?

I am also going to set up a " shipping " item in my store that pledgers will be able to use to pay for early shipping on parts of their pledge as the parts arrive in stock. so as to avoid these long waits for product. I literally am running out of room in my office for all the product waiting to be shipped.

Yes to Bloodmaw and Horsebane. One of my favorite sculpts of all-time. I am tempted to get another; but have you thought of doing one or two variant sculpts of him to make a unit of goblins bear-riders? I'd be all over that.

I'm really happy the troll brothers will be available. Might pick up two sets.

And I definitely like the idea of either waiting til the end for one shipment, or paying a little extra to get shipping in waves.

Will you have the previous KS items available as add-ons? I would like to grab some Aenglish and another few Hels Riders and Dire Wolves.

Tre - very important question. If the goblins wind up being too thin... would you consider doing another run in metal of those guys? The archers were sold out by the time I got around to ordering the spearmen...

 tre manor wrote:
Ranks on the Bonebacks..... Well there may not be 12 total. I am havign soem trouble runnign down the masters for the first 4 so I may only retool the second 8. If I do that will be one " set ".

Pleeeeeeeeeeeease get all 12 made. Pretty please? I want to buy a ton of these to use in units of 40 apiece probably 2 units (so 80 models total). 12 sculpts means wayyyyy less repeats. So, I really hope you can fix the masters of the first 4, I think you'll sell gobs of these!

tre manor wrote:I am not sure about Bloodmaw and Horsebane. I have never been happy with that sculpt but if people really want it who am I to with hold it?

I thought they were your most popular sculpt!? I would really love to see this happen. Wolf riders are about equivalent or maybe even a little higher in my priority list, so I hope we can get to those!

Give the people what they want, right?
Looking forward to this going live!

 judgedoug wrote:
Will you have the previous KS items available as add-ons? I would like to grab some Aenglish and another few Hels Riders and Dire Wolves.

I hope that Tre doesn't include previous KS items. I mean, they WILL be sold through his webstore shortly. Giving discounts over and over and over again will just hurt RBG in the long run.

grefven wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Will you have the previous KS items available as add-ons? I would like to grab some Aenglish and another few Hels Riders and Dire Wolves.

I hope that Tre doesn't include previous KS items. I mean, they WILL be sold through his webstore shortly. Giving discounts over and over and over again will just hurt RBG in the long run.

I don't mind paying retail price, but as an add-on, as it'll go towards the KS funding.

Ed's posted a brief update:

Edward Fortae about 4 hours ago

Hey guy's I did not realize this was being talked about. I'm just doing some final tweaks and everything is going to be moving out very soon. We are building up the last horsemen parts, the witch (we changed it for better product for you, yes it was done but now improved), and the large conrad along with a new fenris (better design), and the armored eliete standard/musician. Those all were able to be improved while at the same time from feedback on packages shipped changed for better products.

Tre and I speak a lot and are working as a team to A) improve and B) change anything that seems to be a concern or possible problem for customers. So while these were still yet to be finished it was beneficial to rework them now to avoid problems and even further delays. It has been a big learning experience for me and him both and things are becoming much better.

Sounds like some work was done on packaging and the horsemen to resolve the spikes issues?

Well hoping to see a package from Tre soon, really looking forward to these for some times, thanks for the updates

 RiTides wrote:

 tre manor wrote:
Ranks on the Bonebacks..... Well there may not be 12 total. I am havign soem trouble runnign down the masters for the first 4 so I may only retool the second 8. If I do that will be one " set ".

Pleeeeeeeeeeeease get all 12 made. Pretty please? I want to buy a ton of these to use in units of 40 apiece probably 2 units (so 80 models total). 12 sculpts means wayyyyy less repeats. So, I really hope you can fix the masters of the first 4, I think you'll sell gobs of these!

tre manor wrote:I am not sure about Bloodmaw and Horsebane. I have never been happy with that sculpt but if people really want it who am I to with hold it?

I thought they were your most popular sculpt!? I would really love to see this happen. Wolf riders are about equivalent or maybe even a little higher in my priority list, so I hope we can get to those!

Give the people what they want, right?
Looking forward to this going live!

If it's one of the most popular sculpts, then it'd be silly to retire it. If you're not entirely happy with it, simply sculpt some more of them that you are happy with as fellow unit members or alternative sculpts. It seems the sort of thing that people could and would easily use either as a character model, or a unit of heavy(!) cavalry.

grefven wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Will you have the previous KS items available as add-ons? I would like to grab some Aenglish and another few Hels Riders and Dire Wolves.

I hope that Tre doesn't include previous KS items. I mean, they WILL be sold through his webstore shortly. Giving discounts over and over and over again will just hurt RBG in the long run.

In the context of a 30 or 40-day kickstarter campaign that's paying for new figures and retooling of molds, I disagree. If it were a bi-monthly/monthly/fortnightly/weekly 'WAREHOUSE-MOVE-SALE" or something, then I could see it hurting the brand. As something that literally happens about three times, not so much. Especially when it's raising more capital for something that's so long-term.

Well the problem of offering existign product as rewards in the KS for the purpose of funding NEW product is that it works against the effort because I still have to restock the existign product and stock the new product. better to let the new product fund on it's own or not.

I am wondering if people woudl like the idea of being able to pay a small amount to have their partial packages shipped or not.

 tre manor wrote:
Well the problem of offering existign product as rewards in the KS for the purpose of funding NEW product is that it works against the effort because I still have to restock the existign product and stock the new product. better to let the new product fund on it's own or not.

I am wondering if people woudl like the idea of being able to pay a small amount to have their partial packages shipped or not.

If you can work out a method through your store I'd be down with that - but can you do it without causing yourself endless headaches over paperwork and records?

Using the current kickstarter as an example I know the bulk of my order is ready and I'd be happy to pay to have it shipped.

I'd rather wait and get everything at once,

and presumably as you've got more of this run sculpted, and you and Ed know what some of the issues of the retooling will be this KS fulfillment will run smoother and faster

so my guess is reletivly few folk would take you up on split shipments (but if you've up for the extra admin that's not nessesarily reason not to offer it)

 tre manor wrote:
Well the problem of offering existign product as rewards in the KS for the purpose of funding NEW product is that it works against the effort because I still have to restock the existign product and stock the new product. better to let the new product fund on it's own or not.

I am wondering if people woudl like the idea of being able to pay a small amount to have their partial packages shipped or not.

Depends how you view it. Do you want as much money as possible for this or not? Also bear in mind that the Cavalry for example were funded as a later stretch goal, and some/many people were probably at the limit of their pledging $$ at that point. Also probably worth noting is that people won't all be interested in everything you're offering, so there might be people interested in just Goblins for example, who won't increase their pledges for the Aenglish, but would for some of the HelsVakt.

On the shipping extras, I'm personally rather dubious on it. When would things be sent out? As soon as they arrive, or would you be holding things for "another week or so" to save on shipping? Because of course, the rest of the figures from the first KS that were promised in October have been "a week or two away" for the last three months, with no sign of that changing anytime soon - we've had so many of the "almost done!!" messages from Ed at this point that they're now just more white noise. Paying for several batches of shipping would get to the point of may as well wait until they're out at retail. Maybe it'd be less of an issue for US customers, I don't know.

Probably doesn't matter for me anyway. With Ed's latest "almost done" post quoted above, I know there's no chance of my stuff from the previous KS arriving before this new one ends, so I won't be going in.

Scipio, from the many packages I've shipped to Aus, you could well be wrong. We'll see!

They usually arrive from the US in 7-14 days, and I get stuff sent from the US pretty much constantly. For some reason, my orders from RBG have always taken 4+ weeks. I have no idea why.

I could, maybe, see a point for seperate shippings, but it would all depend on the cost. Two shippings could mean, for an international backer, that you wont have to pay VAT and tax/duty since the value of the order might be lower than what the total value of when VAT/tax would be required. But it would be a different value depending on what nation you come from, so where it might apply to Swedish policy, it might not do for other countries.

 scipio.au wrote:
They usually arrive from the US in 7-14 days, and I get stuff sent from the US pretty much constantly. For some reason, my orders from RBG have always taken 4+ weeks. I have no idea why.

I should point out, it's not Tre' taking 2 weeks to send them out, either. I mean transit time.