I only ever took Adrenal Glands for the initiative bonus, the +1 strength was just a bonus that made it easier for Trygons to wreck vehicles. Thanks to Smash attacks and losing that initiative bonus AG are just a big meh to me.
I never took Adrenal Glands, except on the big beasties like Trygons, where it helps for taking out tanks. On the smaller guys, 4+ poison is so much better than S4 for one turn. You're only losing out on T2 or T1 models for a turn. Toxin Sacs were a no-brainer.
AG does help with tanks I guess, but I have Trygons and Zoanthropes for that.
ductvader wrote: I also typically take both on hormagaunts and skyslashers because I love the reroll to wound.
Don't you find 10 point Hormagaunts a little too squishy? I compromise and run them at 8 points just with Toxin. I suppose it depends how many you take and what else you take. Care to share?
Maybe you havent seen the recent meta...there is an extreme lack of blasts and templates.
Sky Slashers have an amazing damage output for their speed...and while their durability in the past has suffered...they're doing better than ever.
FORTS-I love Tyranid forts...I wish there were models....But I have created my own dead-bug defense lines and skynest already...currently working on building a bug bastion...it's going to look more like a giant digestion pool atop a spindly tower
Automatically Appended Next Post: None of the other forts are really worth taking...besides the the new "always fires by itself" skyfire quadrouple lascannon fort
Tyranids don'teened Fortifications as such, because it doesn't suit their aggressive playstyle. A brood of Termagants holding an objective don't need an ADL, they just need a few more bodies to absorb some casualties.
Tyranid Fortifications should give army buffs. For example, Spore Chimneys give an larger spread of Venomthrope style cover as well as randomly spew out spore mines.
Capillary Towers are an odd one, but the old style from Forgeworld of being Synapse nodes works.
Brood Nests I harp on about all the time. People who ask for Horvigons need to go and have a look at brood nests, because these are the Hormagaunts reproductive method. Giving Hormagaunts a Without Number style rule where they respawn from the Brood Nest would be very fluffy and differentiate them from Termagants.
Another one I want to see are the old Magma Vents, bugs that bore down to the core of the planet to release extra gases to harvest. Make them work like JotWW, but only once per game then become impassable terrain. Bug opens a vent into the core of the planet, unit falls in, area is impassable because it's a vent into the core of the planet. Maybe even have a 6" zone around it harmful to everything non-Tyranid.
I'll be honest. I pretty much just abandoned Tyranids since I started my Chaos Marines. All of my knowledge (especially relating to how Tyranids work in 6th) is horribly outdated!
I really love Tyranids, I do. I just can't work with them any more. I've had a lot more fun and success with Chaos Marines, and it makes me sad to think of how much I've ignored the bugs. For me, everything is hinging on the supposed January-ish update.
EDIT: -Loki-, I really like those fortification ideas!
-Loki- wrote: Tyranids don'teened Fortifications as such, because it doesn't suit their aggressive playstyle. A brood of Termagants holding an objective don't need an ADL, they just need a few more bodies to absorb some casualties.
Tyranid Fortifications should give army buffs. For example, Spore Chimneys give an larger spread of Venomthrope style cover as well as randomly spew out spore mines.
Capillary Towers are an odd one, but the old style from Forgeworld of being Synapse nodes works.
Brood Nests I harp on about all the time. People who ask for Horvigons need to go and have a look at brood nests, because these are the Hormagaunts reproductive method. Giving Hormagaunts a Without Number style rule where they respawn from the Brood Nest would be very fluffy and differentiate them from Termagants.
Another one I want to see are the old Magma Vents, bugs that bore down to the core of the planet to release extra gases to harvest. Make them work like JotWW, but only once per game then become impassable terrain. Bug opens a vent into the core of the planet, unit falls in, area is impassable because it's a vent into the core of the planet. Maybe even have a 6" zone around it harmful to everything non-Tyranid.
You forgot the reclamation pool. While it serves no logistical purpose, having the option of purchasing multiple pools can help shape a battlefield, forcing enemy troops to avoid swathes of land since they would be lethal terrain.
On a side note, if they do have to make a entirely new monstrous creature, anyone up for a Magma Corer?
Magma Vent and Magma Corer are the same, technically. A Magma Corer opens a Magma Vent.
The Exocrine and Malefactor were Epic 'biotanks'. The Exocrine was heavily armoured and had a huge biocannon. The Malefactor was a transport.
Huge, heavily armoured, large long ranged cannon - sounds mighty similar to the Tyrannofex with a Rupture Cannon, no? And the Tervigon is essentially a transport for Termagants, just given a modern Tyranid makeover (it now breeds rather than transports). There was even an internal debate at GW whether they should actually call them Exocrone and Malefactor instead of Tyrannofex and Tervigon. Cruddace won that debate, unfortunately.
In the same way they reimagined the Exocrone and Malefactor, a new dual MC kit for the Dactylis and Harusepx would be a great way to round out the Tyranid MC collection, and bring it up to par with other armies ranges of vehicles.
I want the 'nids to have a superbug that's a smaller Hierophant with 8 wounds, 9 toughness, 10 strength & 8 attacks. Some people would say that Tyranids aren't about single MC's, but to me they've always been the kings of multiwound models.
ThePrimordial wrote: I want the 'nids to have a superbug that's a smaller Hierophant with 8 wounds, 9 toughness, 10 strength & 8 attacks. Some people would say that Tyranids aren't about single MC's, but to me they've always been the kings of multiwound models.
We have something like that, it's called a Hierodule and just like anything else that ridiculous it's apocalypse only.
ThePrimordial wrote: I want the 'nids to have a superbug that's a smaller Hierophant with 8 wounds, 9 toughness, 10 strength & 8 attacks. Some people would say that Tyranids aren't about single MC's, but to me they've always been the kings of multiwound models.
They still are kings of multiwound models. Name another army that has as many and as varied multiwound models as Tyranids right now have. The only single wound models in the army are gaunt breeds and genestealers.
Tyranids are about multiwound models, yes. They've moved away from individually awesomely powerful multiwound MC's, however. The only one they have right now in the codex that fits the bill is the Swarmlord, and he's powerful because he's a special character. The only one they have in Apocalypse is the Heirophant, and that's because it's a titan. Even Heirodules aren't really worthy of being Apocalypse anymore, they're fairly tame.
That said, it's fairly obvious Tyranids will get a new plastic MC. They're the MC army, and GW have been on a roll with big MC kits. Personally, I'd prefer them to go in another direction. As someone said before - less Pacific Rim, more Starship Troopers.
I want a Hydraphant!!! But that would be for a Imperial Armour.
For a Codex I would like Anti-air, probably in the form of a FMC. but more than new units, I would like something like what they did to the Tau, almost no new units, but they did a good job with the existing ones.
We already have a vast array of units for different purposes, the problem is that most of them aren't very competitive. So instead of a new fancy creature, I would like to fix the Tyrannofex, the Carnifex, the Old One Eye, the Genestealers, etc. And also the weapons and biomorphs.
I wanted the Dominatrix at first myself, the fluff just doesn't really work well.. unless they rewrite it( which is possible) this thing is known to rip apart titans and the landscape itself. Kind of hard to translate that to the table top without dumbing it down.
If the power of "troops" continues on its current path.. I rather see more swarm to the army than MC. Rending ap 2 troops cutting down your MC for a fraction of cost... No thanks.
Exocrine and Malefactor are cool names, but they really should be the other way around. For those who don't know, "exocrine" is a type of gland. It means it secretes whatever it produces into an external environment. That'd be way more fitting for the "Tervigon"; it's effectively an exocrine gland that secretes... whole organisms. Awesome.
Malefactor is just a person that does bad things. Such as shooting a giant bio-cannon at you. They're so much more fitting the other way around! @.@
Tyranids are supposed to have a bunch of playstyles that vary between high-power MCs and swarms. Our swarms aren't even that swarmy any more, and our MCs aren't powerful enough for their cost. The good old days of swarms supported by DISTRACTION CARNIFEX are pretty much gone.
Meanwhile, I am very excited for the 'Nid Wraithknight/Riptide equivalent, which is pretty much guaranteed.
EDIT: As for terrain, why not Tyranid infestation? Nids are supposed to convert local flora into Tyranid organisms and stuff. Also, I think a cool idea for Tyranid fortifications (as well as buffing troops) would be debuffing the enemy somehow, and be able to be placed outside of deployment. Not sure how that'd work.
EDIT2: It just occured to me that there still isn't a Harpy model. Does anyone think that we'll get one (and possibly another, more 'flyer'-like FMC), combined with an updated ruleset to make the Harpy, you know, good?
Roci wrote: I wanted the Dominatrix at first myself, the fluff just doesn't really work well.. unless they rewrite it( which is possible) this thing is known to rip apart titans and the landscape itself. Kind of hard to translate that to the table top without dumbing it down.
If the power of "troops" continues on its current path.. I rather see more swarm to the army than MC. Rending ap 2 troops cutting down your MC for a fraction of cost... No thanks.
The Dominatrix is a Bio-titan comparable to a Reaver Titan plus a lot of psych power.
They already did both the Warlord and the Emperor Titan, so there are already things stronger than a Dominatrix in the tabletop.
EDIT: As for terrain, why not Tyranid infestation? Nids are supposed to convert local flora into Tyranid organisms and stuff. Also, I think a cool idea for Tyranid fortifications (as well as buffing troops) would be debuffing the enemy somehow, and be able to be placed outside of deployment. Not sure how that'd work.
Tyrannoformation of the battlefield is a really interesting area that GW hasn't really touched upon since a few WD articles back when the 3rd Edition book was released. There are loads of great ideas for it though.
Capillary Towers = Impassable terrain, tall cover, multi-wound stationary model, Synapse and a cool rule allowing Hive Guard to be deployed by "deep strike" next to them without any risk of scatter to represent dormant Hive Guard coming to life to defend the towers.
Spore Chimneys = Impassable terrain, tall cover, multi-wound stationary model, a buffed version of the Venomthrope Spore cloud and any flying unit that passes within 12" of it takes an automatic Wound or Glancing hit.
Reclamation Pools = Impassable (and lethal) terrain, low-level cover, invulnerable to damage, spawns D3 Ripper Swarms (or Sky Slashers) per turn and Ripper Swarms (or Sky Slashers) within 12" count as being within Synapse range. Enemy units destroyed within 12" of a Reclamation Pool give double Kill Points (to represent them being broken down and consumed quickly, cementing the Tyranid victory with plentiful biomass being harvested to grow more troops).
Hormagaunt Brood Nest = Impassable terrain, low-level cover, multi-wound stationary model, spawns broods of 3D6 Hormagaunts each turn (per the Tervigon rules), may be upgraded to spawn Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacks or Adrenal Glands, Hormagaunts within 12" count as being in Synapse range and gain Rage (to reflect them ferociously defending their nest).
These are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg too. It would be awesome, would reflect a really important element of Tyranid fluff in the game and would really differentiate Tyranids from other armies.
Xyptc wrote: differentiate Tyranids from other armies.
That's what I really, really want. More than anything. More than the return of the Carnifex or whatever. Tyranids need interesting mechanics, playing with Synapse/SitW, unique psychic powers, Tyranniforming! There's a lot of potential for Tyranids to be different and dynamic, and that's what'll get me back into playing them.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Meanwhile, I am very excited for the 'Nid Wraithknight/Riptide equivalent, which is pretty much guaranteed.
It's so guaranteed, they already have it!
Spoiler:
Tyranids started the whole knight sized arms race with the Trygon.
And the Trygon is in many ways still the answer to these problems too. Between the Trygon and an improved Carnifex, Tyranids should have everything they need to smash apart enemy heavies, including Wraithknights and Riptides. Carnifexes need *something* to help them get to melee range (I still think that T7/5+ FNP on melee-fexes would solve most of the issues), and Trygons could use either a small points drop or a speed/lethality boost but the tools are there and I would much rather see them being properly fielded than simply replaced by the next big shiney.
Tyrannofexes also need something to focus in on their ranged "anti-big heavy" role (the Rupture Cannon especially), but again the tool is there and has great potential as an extension of the Exocrine idea.
I think if I were to really ask for new Tyranid plastics, I would ask for Warriors (with Shrike and Prime options as possibly a variant kit). The Warrior kit is starting to show its age a little bit and misses a huge number of options (I would really like to see Venom Cannon broods in the heavy slot, and all of the weapon options on the sprue).
Other than that, a Harpy kit (with the option to make it into something else) and perhaps a Broodlord/Lictor combi-kit too.
Fill that out with the missing special characters, add in some free Sky-slashers on the sprues and I think the range will be quite nicely filled out... leaving room for a couple of nice Tyranid terrain kits :p
Well, when you look at what other armies are getting with 6th, we're likely to get some or all of the following - large oval base kit, flyer, plastic infantry dual kit, single frame plastic character, 2-3 finecast characters, with no existing plastic being replaced with new kits.
My guesses:
Oval base kit - new dual kit monster. What it is, I have no idea. I hope it's a Dactylis/Haruspex, which means it won't be.
Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Plastic infantry dual kit - one of the current sets of Finecast units. A Guard, Vore or Thrope box. A Thrope box would also let them wipe a special character off their list, which makes it more likely.
Single frame plastic character - If they can fit it, a Tyranid Prime or Broodlord, but I have a feeling this one will be skipped for the bugs.
Finecast characters, there's plenty of choice.
I can't see them breaking this mold for Tyranids. The only thing I wouldn't be surprised at is no new oval base monster at all, since we have 4 already (5 with the Harpy), and an extra plastic infantry dual kit to bring another set of Finecast models into plastic.
-Loki- wrote: Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Didn't they already do this?
The new Hive Tyrant comes with legs made to look like the Harpy's scything talons...I guess it doesn't come with all the guns but that's simple enough...
-Loki- wrote: Well, when you look at what other armies are getting with 6th, we're likely to get some or all of the following - large oval base kit, flyer, plastic infantry dual kit, single frame plastic character, 2-3 finecast characters, with no existing plastic being replaced with new kits.
My guesses:
Oval base kit - new dual kit monster. What it is, I have no idea. I hope it's a Dactylis/Haruspex, which means it won't be.
Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Plastic infantry dual kit - one of the current sets of Finecast units. A Guard, Vore or Thrope box. A Thrope box would also let them wipe a special character off their list, which makes it more likely.
Single frame plastic character - If they can fit it, a Tyranid Prime or Broodlord, but I have a feeling this one will be skipped for the bugs.
Finecast characters, there's plenty of choice.
I can't see them breaking this mold for Tyranids. The only thing I wouldn't be surprised at is no new oval base monster at all, since we have 4 already (5 with the Harpy), and an extra plastic infantry dual kit to bring another set of Finecast models into plastic.
Well, my predictions are:
Oval Base: This will probably happen, can't say what it'd be though.
Flyer: This will happen. I reckon it will be a dual kit. One option will be the Harpy, which will act as a "bomber" and specialise in taking out ground targets with large blast templates. The other will be... something, which will be a "fighter" and be more of a general fighter thing, with ability to damage enemy aircraft and ground troops alike.
Plastic Infantry Dual Kit: Again, I think this will go ahead. My guess, however, would be a Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard dual kit. It'd be very easy for them to incorporate a new unit here though.
Plastic Character: My guess is a new character. Out of the ones that currently exist though, my guess is a Prime.
Finecast Characters: Like you say, there's plenty of choice. I think the Parasite of Mortrex would be likely.
-Loki- wrote: Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Didn't they already do this?
The new Hive Tyrant comes with legs made to look like the Harpy's scything talons...I guess it doesn't come with all the guns but that's simple enough...
Yes, you could build something that looks like a Harpy out of the Flyrant kit.
That's not the same thing as a Harpy kit, especially since a lot of people are basing them off of Trygons.
The Shadow wrote: Plastic Character: My guess is a new character. Out of the ones that currently exist though, my guess is a Prime.
Seeing as the Parasite is a Shrike class Warrior already...I don't see there being another. I think Primes will be able to get wings and Parasite will get "Alpha Leader" or whatever it is to improve shrikes.
I think Red Terror...it doesn't really exist right now...even in IA...and people want it...and they want the fluff...people just like snakes...I could see them doing the ravener character or turning the Red Terror fluff into a Mawloc...which I am cool with because he was an MC that swallowed models whole.
Just wait...it'll be a pyrovore...I shall name him "Trogdor the burninator"
The Shadow wrote: Plastic Character: My guess is a new character. Out of the ones that currently exist though, my guess is a Prime.
Seeing as the Parasite is a Shrike class Warrior already...I don't see there being another. I think Primes will be able to get wings and Parasite will get "Alpha Leader" or whatever it is to improve shrikes.
I think Red Terror...it doesn't really exist right now...even in IA...and people want it...and they want the fluff...people just like snakes...I could see them doing the ravener character or turning the Red Terror fluff into a Mawloc...which I am cool with because he was an MC that swallowed models whole.
Just wait...it'll be a pyrovore...I shall name him "Trogdor the burninator"
And he'll come with wings, and a strength 6 ap3 torrent flamer
rigeld2 wrote: That's not the same thing as a Harpy kit, especially since a lot of people are basing them off of Trygons.
I did mine cheaper and based the off old school tyrants...ripped the legs off and replaced with warrior scytals...tilted him forward...bam...insta Harpy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pyrovore with wings? I imagine he'll be as agile as a flying cow.
-Loki- wrote: Well, when you look at what other armies are getting with 6th, we're likely to get some or all of the following - large oval base kit, flyer, plastic infantry dual kit, single frame plastic character, 2-3 finecast characters, with no existing plastic being replaced with new kits.
My guesses:
Oval base kit - new dual kit monster. What it is, I have no idea. I hope it's a Dactylis/Haruspex, which means it won't be.
Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Plastic infantry dual kit - one of the current sets of Finecast units. A Guard, Vore or Thrope box. A Thrope box would also let them wipe a special character off their list, which makes it more likely.
Single frame plastic character - If they can fit it, a Tyranid Prime or Broodlord, but I have a feeling this one will be skipped for the bugs.
Finecast characters, there's plenty of choice.
I can't see them breaking this mold for Tyranids. The only thing I wouldn't be surprised at is no new oval base monster at all, since we have 4 already (5 with the Harpy), and an extra plastic infantry dual kit to bring another set of Finecast models into plastic.
I think we'll get the Mycetic Spore instead of a 'normal' MC. It's big enough to justify the MC price tag and GW will be sick of imitators by now. They might even do a dual-kit thing with it that fulfills a terrain role, such as a spore chimney, capillary tower, etc etc. GW may view the fact that Nids can't fire with Aegis lines as an opportunity to sell something else.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see many of the current units dropped in 6E. GW have been very determined recently to only include codex units they sell models for, and I don't see them releasing new kits for all of:
Shrike
Sky-slasher
Tyranid Prime
Parasite
Doom
Ymgarls
Deathleaper and Old One Eye will probably depend on how much of the old stock they still have around to offload. However there is still a one-eyed head in the regular Carnifex box to make that.
They'll want to do a proper Shrike model, but Skyslashers will likely be dropped since that's a niche thing. They're already a Forge World model and the unit will probably just resurface in IA54, or whenever they get back to doing Nids. With that in mind, my money is on:
1) Mycetic Spore box, probably dual-kit with something similar. Could be an bulky MC, could be terrain.
2) MC flyer dual-box with Harpy and a new unit, one will be anti-air and the other anti-ground unit.
3) Redone Genestealers box with 6 models for around the same price, but with options for Ymgarls and maybe a Broodlord (I'd really love to see a new Broodlord in the style of the 2009 Space Hulk one)
4) New Warriors box with options for Shrikes and Prime, maybe Parasite
5) Doom finecast character
6) Some new finecast character, probably a re-do of the Red Terror to give them a 'fresh' new unit to sell
All of those units can be viable by GW casting one thing...wings.
Making a wings bits sprue...or better yet...promoting the forgeworld shrike and slasher wings...suits them well enough
I can't fathom a single one of tose units going anywhere
Tyranid Prime, Ymgarls, Deathleaper, Doom, and Old One Eye are just variations of Warriors, stealers, lictors, zoeys and carnifexes...and require no new model.
I would look back at the Daemon release if you want an idea of whats coming our way...its a "fix this book now" codex with a few shiny additions.
You know while we're throwing things out there. FW did up those really big spore mine models. I'd like to see something done with that. Like a spore mine with almost the same rules as the regular ones but that doesn't blow up when it hits terrain. Maybe make them only orbital deployment and give them a stonger blast. S6 maybe? or give it options to be a different kind of spore like we used to have.
In fact even just bring the old spores back would be good too. But i just love the idea of having a few big mines just floating around the board causing havoc
Hyrule Hero wrote: You know while we're throwing things out there. FW did up those really big spore mine models. I'd like to see something done with that. Like a spore mine with almost the same rules as the regular ones but that doesn't blow up when it hits terrain. Maybe make them only orbital deployment and give them a stonger blast. S6 maybe? or give it options to be a different kind of spore like we used to have.
In fact even just bring the old spores back would be good too. But i just love the idea of having a few big mines just floating around the board causing havoc
I think floating spore mines that hit flyers with 2 x str7 ap4 auto hits, when the flyer gets within 2" of the mine would be nice, obviously they float around above the table kind of randomly like the current mines do. Or maybe just give them as an option to be shot from biovores. Like Flakk mines
Spore Mine Orbital Strike would be a nice buy for a prime or tyrant...but seeing as it'll be a blast if anything...not likely that it'll affect any kind of flier
Hyrule Hero wrote: You know while we're throwing things out there. FW did up those really big spore mine models. I'd like to see something done with that. Like a spore mine with almost the same rules as the regular ones but that doesn't blow up when it hits terrain. Maybe make them only orbital deployment and give them a stonger blast. S6 maybe? or give it options to be a different kind of spore like we used to have.
In fact even just bring the old spores back would be good too. But i just love the idea of having a few big mines just floating around the board causing havoc
I think floating spore mines that hit flyers with 2 x str7 ap4 auto hits, when the flyer gets within 2" of the mine would be nice, obviously they float around above the table kind of randomly like the current mines do. Or maybe just give them as an option to be shot from biovores. Like Flakk mines
I like this idea. It would really screw with enemy aircraft movement or it would create a target that would divert fire from other units as they rush up the board
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ductvader wrote: Spore Mine Orbital Strike would be a nice buy for a prime or tyrant...but seeing as it'll be a blast if anything...not likely that it'll affect any kind of flier
I agree to this too. They would need to not make it a blast but then that's what i spore is. Maybe throw in a new kind of spore that isn't a blast but is designed to hit targets and bore through them
xttz wrote: They might even do a dual-kit thing with it that fulfills a terrain role, such as a spore chimney, capillary tower, etc etc. GW may view the fact that Nids can't fire with Aegis lines as an opportunity to sell something else.
Making nid-specific terrain would be nice, something we can actually manually shoot. And considering Forgeworld hasn't produced spore chimneys and capillary towers in however long, I wouldn't mind some accessible terrain options without having to scour eBay for old Forgeworld or even Battle for Macragge terrain.
rigeld2 wrote: That's not the same thing as a Harpy kit, especially since a lot of people are basing them off of Trygons.
I did mine cheaper and based the off old school tyrants...ripped the legs off and replaced with warrior scytals...tilted him forward...bam...insta Harpy.
People made Tervigons and Tyrannofexes out of Carnifexes kitbashed with Trygons and 3rd party bits. That doesn't mean the plastic kit shouldn't have been released.
The Harpy is now an established Tyranid unit. It needs a plastic kit, or GW face the problem they had with places like chapterhouse releasing units before them (in fact, there's already a few not-Harpies on the market, just not actually sold specifically as Harpies like Chapterhouse decided to do).
I now see this carnifex/trygon mash...holy F*** thats a giant model for a 4+...glad I went small with mine...I was aiming for a size right between a hive guard and a tyrant.
ductvader wrote: I now see this carnifex/trygon mash...holy F*** thats a giant model for a 4+...glad I went small with mine...I was aiming for a size right between a hive guard and a tyrant.
xttz wrote: I also wouldn't be surprised to see many of the current units dropped in 6E. GW have been very determined recently to only include codex units they sell models for, and I don't see them releasing new kits for all of:
Shrike
Sky-slasher
Tyranid Prime
Parasite
Doom
Ymgarls
Deathleaper and Old One Eye will probably depend on how much of the old stock they still have around to offload. However there is still a one-eyed head in the regular Carnifex box to make that.
Sky Slashers are sold by Forgeworld. Shrikes are Warriors with wings, a kit sold by Forgeworld. Forgeworld is GW, so yes, GW sells these.
Tyranid Prime is just a Tyranid Warrior, though they haven't been particularly clear on the matter. Simply putting a Tyranid Warrior in the gallery and labelling it as a Prime would suffice.
Parasite, Doom - perfect candidates for Finecast releases. In fact, rumours have suggested they're already done in Finecast.
Ymgarls are simply Genestealers with Feeder Tendrils, an option in the Genestealer box.
Deathleaper and Old One Eye have models, plus you can make Old One Eye with the Carnifex box (Carnifex, Regeneration head, Scything Talons, Crushing Claws, done).
I'd wager none of these get dropped. Sky Slashers and Shrikes are outliers in that FW does them, but it's always been this way with those, and FW is GW (like, actually GW, not even a subsidiary).
ductvader wrote: I now see this carnifex/trygon mash...holy F*** thats a giant model for a 4+...glad I went small with mine...I was aiming for a size right between a hive guard and a tyrant.
Well its description does put it as trygon size.
The codex never says that. It says that where a Gargoyle is a winged Termagant, a Harpy is long and sinuous like a Trygon.
-Loki- wrote: Flyer - Harpy. Maybe a dual kit with a few more options.
Didn't they already do this?
The new Hive Tyrant comes with legs made to look like the Harpy's scything talons...I guess it doesn't come with all the guns but that's simple enough...
Yes, you could build something that looks like a Harpy out of the Flyrant kit.
That's not the same thing as a Harpy kit, especially since a lot of people are basing them off of Trygons.
Most of the recent conversion I've seen use the lower torso of the Hive Tyrant's flying pose and the wings, a Trygon head, and either a Carnifex or Trygon torso, like this:
I made one of mine out of this guy...without the legs. Sure he's got a 12'' wingspan but I can often hide his 1-2'' body...thank goodness wings don't count for LoS.
ductvader wrote: So very...not my preference...to each their own.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
I made one of mine out of this guy...without the legs. Sure he's got a 12'' wingspan but I can often hide his 1-2'' body...thank goodness wings don't count for LoS.
To be fair, stating you can make it out of that model doesn't help people without that model. Forgeworld discontinued it.
It could also deepstrike and kill a giant mob of infantry in a turn..a Harpy can usually make its points back in a turn as long as it has a target...the only thing killing its effectiveness nowadays is interceptor.
ductvader wrote: It could also deepstrike and kill a giant mob of infantry in a turn..a Harpy can usually make its points back in a turn as long as it has a target...the only thing killing its effectiveness nowadays is interceptor.
How many people ran giant mobs of infantry in 5th? Tyranids and Orks? My memories of 5th involve lots of parking lots and razorback spam.
ductvader wrote: It could also deepstrike and kill a giant mob of infantry in a turn..a Harpy can usually make its points back in a turn as long as it has a target...the only thing killing its effectiveness nowadays is interceptor.
How many people ran giant mobs of infantry in 5th? Tyranids and Orks? My memories of 5th involve lots of parking lots and razorback spam.
If anybody following this thread gets a chance to see how the new Malanthrope broods have changed from their iteration in IA:Apoc 2nd ed, I'd love to hear a rundown of the differences.
As to the harpy conversation, I made 2 out of a trygon body, forgeworld hive tyrant wings, and hierodule bio-cannons. They ended up looking really good, but i eventually sold them on eBay because they never performed well in games due to the T5, 4+ save being so easy to kill.
On the size debate again. I feel the harpy should be about the size of a tyrant but not as bulky. The picture in the codex would lead one to think it's huge since the gargoyles flying around it look like finches compared to him but that's getting way too large IMO. I was thinking of using an old Fell beast from LOTR and giving it a bulked up warrior head and other tryranid bits. Gives it a good skinny look
When GW shop comes out with the arpy model (and i really think it will) I think we'll see something slightly smaller then a tyrant
Kain wrote: I wonder if the inevitable dual kit, one for a fighter harpy and one for a bomber, will be two distinct units or just builds for the same one.
I think that the Harpy will stay one creature...the loadout might just change...like decided to buy the spore mine bombs...or go CC or shooty
Kain wrote: I wonder if the inevitable dual kit, one for a fighter harpy and one for a bomber, will be two distinct units or just builds for the same one.
I think that the Harpy will stay one creature...the loadout might just change...like decided to buy the spore mine bombs...or go CC or shooty
Can anyone say "Harpy with bone sabers"?
But seriously they need to make him have the ability to just go to town CC wise on both ground and air units. Rending should be a must to help with stubborn vehicle armour
Tyran wrote: I have heard rumors of a new anti-air FMC.
I believe the rumored name for it is Hydra, and it is supposed to be an AA version of the Harpy.
Tyran wrote: I have heard rumors of a new anti-air FMC.
I believe the rumored name for it is Hydra, and it is supposed to be an AA version of the Harpy.
...But the IG already have a Hydra.
They are 2 Pathfinders in the game (Tau and Eldar).
And its only rumored and even if its true, they can change the name.
Or even just name it "Tyranid Hydra"
I've always been partial to Zephyr for an AA Harpy. I made rules for it but it wasn't received especially well.
The Harpy model that I made I felt was just about the right size:
Spoiler:
That was a WIP picture, I've since magnetized his open slot to be able to attach a Stranglethorn Cannon.
I've used him a couple times with pretty good success. He works really well in tandem with a Flyrant. I actually plan on making one more for some extra target saturation. Definitely not a super competitive list, but a 600 point ball of FMC that can absolutely annihilate infantry is pretty nice.
ductvader wrote: I would definitely be okay with Cruddace again.
Just so long as Cruddace has someone stopping him every now and again checking his work. He does okay but he seems like he shows no passion for armies he doesn't like and what you end up with is something very uninspired. His work with the new chaos daemons was okay and i think that was because he was working with Kelly
Da krimson barun wrote: Don't forget to pray that Phil Kelly will write it.And not Mat- Blam!Heresy!
Ward wouldn't be bad for the Nids, he gives cool (although usually OP) rules. And in his fluff he seems to have the Nids in a high place as the ultimate enemy of the other races, like the Silent King saying "guys we are fethed, Nids everywhere".
Da krimson barun wrote: Don't forget to pray that Phil Kelly will write it.And not Mat- Blam!Heresy!
Ward wouldn't be bad for the Nids, he gives cool (although usually OP) rules. And in his fluff he seems to have the Nids in a high place as the ultimate enemy of the other races, like the Silent King saying "guys we are fethed, Nids everywhere".
While Cruddace writes stories in the Tyranids Codex about how they get out adapted by Tau. Think it's clear to see who to go with
Codices should have Kelly for Fluff, Ward for rules (both checking each other's work), Vetock as a tiebreaker and second opinion, and Cruddace on a medieval torture device screaming his penance.
Tyran wrote: I have heard rumors of a new anti-air FMC.
I believe the rumored name for it is Hydra, and it is supposed to be an AA version of the Harpy.
...But the IG already have a Hydra.
They are 2 Pathfinders in the game (Tau and Eldar).
That's nothing, there are at least 4 Warriors (Tyranid, Necron, Fire, Kabalite).
Kain wrote: Codices should have Kelly for Fluff, Ward for rules (both checking each other's work), Vetock as a tiebreaker and second opinion, and Cruddace on a medieval torture device screaming his penance.
This pretty much sums up the studio writers.
Kelly and Ward are the best at writing rules. Kelly writes better fluffy rules while Ward writes better rules in general for a more varied book. Vetock does a good enough job but tends to put too many special rules in. All three tend to have a passion for the game that really shows in the book - just make whoever is most passionate about the army the lead writer. Those 3 collaborating on each book would make for somefun times.
Cruddace just doesn't seem to love 40k. He basically phones his books in. He does a bit better in Fantasy, which would be a better place to leave him.
Kain wrote: Codices should have Kelly for Fluff, Ward for rules (both checking each other's work), Vetock as a tiebreaker and second opinion, and Cruddace on a medieval torture device screaming his penance.
This pretty much sums up the studio writers.
Kelly and Ward are the best at writing rules. Kelly writes better fluffy rules while Ward writes better rules in general for a more varied book. Vetock does a good enough job but tends to put too many special rules in. All three tend to have a passion for the game that really shows in the book - just make whoever is most passionate about the army the lead writer. Those 3 collaborating on each book would make for somefun times.
Cruddace just doesn't seem to love 40k. He basically phones his books in. He does a bit better in Fantasy, which would be a better place to leave him.
You do realise that all these people do very little of the writing themselves, and are just project managers for the books.
I think in the end no matter who writes it there will be changes for the better because when comparing this edition to the last there's pros and cons for both and GW should be able to make an educated guess on what the fans of Tyranids want and what the army needs
I personally think orks need more fixins than nids.. Only problem i see and have with nids is getting your big ones to the other side quite safely... Yeah spore them... Disembark and watch em get shot to death or near death before you get a chance to charge...
Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: I personally think orks need more fixins than nids.. Only problem i see and have with nids is getting your big ones to the other side quite safely... Yeah spore them... Disembark and watch em get shot to death or near death before you get a chance to charge...
The problem with Tyranids is the terrible internal balance in a codex filled with unique options that no one takes because they either don't do what they're supposed to do or are way too overpriced for what they can do. But I do agree that Orks need a new codex just as badly, at least Tyranids have 1 build that does well in tournaments, I don't think I've seen Orks in the top tables as anything other than an allies detachment.
Oh yeah, watching an entire brood of Genestealers successfully outflank right next to a squad of Grey Knight Paladins and then immediately get shot to death before they can do anything is just lovely.
What is even the point in outflanking and infiltrating if you can't charge after? All it does is kill the usefulness of melee units, while shooting units have a grand old time of it. Shooting units that the Tyranids don't have!
According to faeit 212 a birdy dropped that nids are due for release in November. Remember it here, I was chanting NIDS IN NOVEMBER first. If it happens it'll be a lucky guess, but awesome anyway.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Oh yeah, watching an entire brood of Genestealers successfully outflank right next to a squad of Grey Knight Paladins and then immediately get shot to death before they can do anything is just lovely.
What is even the point in outflanking and infiltrating if you can't charge after? All it does is kill the usefulness of melee units, while shooting units have a grand old time of it. Shooting units that the Tyranids don't have!
One of the big changes we need to see. If they don't want to make it an army wide rule at least give it to some major units that need to assaultt after coming on the board i.e. genestealers and lictors. Ymgarls can do it! why not other things
Or even having it as an upgrade (though i like this less and it would have to be cheap if they did) that different units can purchase. Just something to get the genestealers, one of the most iconic Tyranid creatures, back on the board!
Frozen Ocean wrote: Oh yeah, watching an entire brood of Genestealers successfully outflank right next to a squad of Grey Knight Paladins and then immediately get shot to death before they can do anything is just lovely.
What is even the point in outflanking and infiltrating if you can't charge after? All it does is kill the usefulness of melee units, while shooting units have a grand old time of it. Shooting units that the Tyranids don't have!
One of the big changes we need to see. If they don't want to make it an army wide rule at least give it to some major units that need to assaultt after coming on the board i.e. genestealers and lictors. Ymgarls can do it! why not other things
Or even having it as an upgrade (though i like this less and it would have to be cheap if they did) that different units can purchase. Just something to get the genestealers, one of the most iconic Tyranid creatures, back on the board!
It couldn't be cheap...it would be at least 5 pts per model. And would probably be a broodlord only upgrade...or maybe the broodlord will go back into the HQ slot and taking him as an HQ will allow a unit to assault out of outflank.
More likely...there will be a warlord trait that gives assault out of reserve to the warlords unit
I've had some thoughts about what they might end up doing with Zoanthropes. I could imagine them becoming Brotherhood of Psykers, with Mastery Level equal to the number of Thropes in the unit. Thus, the unit would roll powers, not individual Thropes. Also, it would allow Tyranids some much needed Warp Charge 2 love. I find it hard to believe Zoanthropes will retain their individual unique powers, which they can trade in for two rolls on a chart.
Perhaps, they might also get nerfed, with their Invuln Save increasing with the number of Thropes in the unit, up from 5+ with one Thrope.
rollawaythestone wrote: I've had some thoughts about what they might end up doing with Zoanthropes. I could imagine them becoming Brotherhood of Psykers, with Mastery Level equal to the number of Thropes in the unit. Thus, the unit would roll powers, not individual Thropes. Also, it would allow Tyranids some much needed Warp Charge 2 love. I find it hard to believe Zoanthropes will retain their individual unique powers, which they can trade in for two rolls on a chart.
Perhaps, they might also get nerfed, with their Invuln Save increasing with the number of Thropes in the unit, up from 5+ with one Thrope.
Doubt that. Zoeys need the 3+ ivuln to be effective at 18" range
My personal opinion and prediction is this.
Brotherhood of psykers Mastery = # of models alive in the unit
stats stay the same...power stays the same...add a large blast with higher AP and maybe range to the power
A quick scan through the first page is enough for me.
I miss 4th Ed nids too. Loved carnifex’s... Not anymore.
Loved Lictors, Not anymore.
Loved Tyrants, but they’re double the price now.
Loved Warriors, but no so much anymore.
Loved Rippers with leaping. Rippers are useless now.
Loads of the new models are either useless or don’t exist.
& loads of the existing models have boat loads of upgrades in the box’s that don’t mean anything?!?
Bring back Biomorphs, Living Ammo & Eternal Warrior on Synapse. On the plus side though, without the 5th Ed codex, we’d have never had Trygons or Tervigons, & they ROCK!!!!
With any luck, in the next 6 months, I’ll be able to run a Hive Tyrant with BS4 again, maybe even a Carnifex as an Elite, & fingers crossed, a Trygon with a 2+ Sv!
Only time will tell I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh god, also. I hope these rumors about ‘Cultists’ aren’t gonna come true. I really don’t want Guardsmen in my Tyranid Army. It just doesn’t seem right.
I actually quite like the Nid Codex at the moment, its better than one of the old codex's I used to play with.
The only issue I have is that there are not enough high strength or AP weapons. The only way to get those is to sacrifice a lot of units to get it. Range is also an issue, the long range weapons except for the Venom Cannon / Stranglethorn etc are really low strength / AP.
I do not use Tervigons, I do not even own any, I have watched many games and they seem to me at least to be boring, the lucky dice rolls for spawning annoy me as well.
I have enough models to effectively change how I play everygame. I often go with half the army as flyers and the rest as outflanking / reserves / mawlocs.
My tactics are get in the opponents face asap and wreak havoc. I do not think there is any other army in the game who can attack with the speed that nids can.
Tyranids aren't meant to do long ranged high strength or AP shooting - that's why it's limited and expensive. Their high strength attacks are meant to come from big monsters hitting things. Their firepower in 40k has historically been numeroous, but short ranged and focused on anti infantry, which gives Tyranids a unique playsstyle of short ranged shooting backed up by close assault and a few long range heavy hitters sprinkled in.
I'd suggest at least proxying a Tervigon for a few games - I was reluctant to use them as well, preferring Hormagaunts for my troops. But the Tervigon is a real workhorse unit - with Crushing Claws and Smash, it's lethal in assault to buildings and vehicles (which are easier to catch in 6th), it hands out toxin sacs and adrenal glands to Termagants if you take the options, and can get up to 3 powers. If you roll Biomancy, you can get some great melee buffs, enemy debuffs and army buffs. It's also quite tough, with lots of wounds which makes a great synapse anchor, and can be a scoring MC. It's spawning ability is rather secondary.
As for speed - Dark Eldar do it better. What I've found Tyranids do best is unrelenting assault. My games where I've won soundly have been because I stuck to a formation, and slowly but surely walked my way up the table destroying things and distracting my opponent with stray suicide units or deep striking MCs. When I've won, I've had most of my army left slowly surrounding and destroying any survivors. Which is exactly how Tyranids fight in the fluff!
Tervigons are just money. Especially in 6th where they can be retro-fitted into the assault tank that a carnifex should be. Spawning at least 1 extra troop unit, average 2, is icing on the cake.
Let's do a comparison:
Carnifex, crushing claws, adrenal glands - 195 pts. Non-scoring, no psychic powers, only 4 wounds, 5+D3 s10 attacks on the charge (no re-rolls to pen)
Tervigon, crushing claws, catalyst - 200 pts. Scoring. guaranteed feel no pain psychic power, or chance to roll on biomancy for warp speed, iron arm, etc. When smashing, 3+D3 attacks on the charge (or 3+D3+D3 with warp speed). 6 wounds.
When put side by side, it's shameful that the 'support' MC can do equally as well (and sometimes better than) the 'living tank' that is the carnifex. I'm hoping this is one of the many issues addressed in the new book - not that tervigons get weaker, but rather that carnifex models get stronger (or stay the same, but have their base points cost drop by about 40).
-Loki- wrote: Tyranids aren't meant to do long ranged high strength or AP shooting - that's why it's limited and expensive. Their high strength attacks are meant to come from big monsters hitting things. Their firepower in 40k has historically been numeroous, but short ranged and focused on anti infantry, which gives Tyranids a unique playsstyle of short ranged shooting backed up by close assault and a few long range heavy hitters sprinkled in.
I'd suggest at least proxying a Tervigon for a few games - I was reluctant to use them as well, preferring Hormagaunts for my troops. But the Tervigon is a real workhorse unit - with Crushing Claws and Smash, it's lethal in assault to buildings and vehicles (which are easier to catch in 6th), it hands out toxin sacs and adrenal glands to Termagants if you take the options, and can get up to 3 powers. If you roll Biomancy, you can get some great melee buffs, enemy debuffs and army buffs. It's also quite tough, with lots of wounds which makes a great synapse anchor, and can be a scoring MC. It's spawning ability is rather secondary.
As for speed - Dark Eldar do it better. What I've found Tyranids do best is unrelenting assault. My games where I've won soundly have been because I stuck to a formation, and slowly but surely walked my way up the table destroying things and distracting my opponent with stray suicide units or deep striking MCs. When I've won, I've had most of my army left slowly surrounding and destroying any survivors. Which is exactly how Tyranids fight in the fluff!
no gaunts and no tervigons are my personal rules, if I need a shield I just use gargoyles
Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.
ductvader wrote: Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.
When did that happen? I haven't heard that and want to make sure I'm still playing right.
ductvader wrote: Space Marine Vanguards just lost the ability to assault out of deepstrike...guess what is most likely going to happen to ymgarls...I would expect ymgarls to get more specialized in what they do and lose their assaultiness.
I don't like that idea. To me, Ymgarls can assault out of "deepstrike" because they're not deep striking, or outflanking. They're dormant and hidden. They've basically been on the board the entire game and when they become available via reserve rolls, that's when they choose to wake up and attack. It's like improved infiltration essentially. They're not sneaking onto the board... they were already there, hiding in the floors and walls. It's very Tyranid-y, I would be surprised (and extremely disappointed) if we lost that.
Plus wishlisting/OT comments aren't frowned upon by the modquisition nearly as much.
so in that vein -- what would you folks like to see from this new "super-synapse" bug? I think the feel no pain bubble is a mandatory inclusion - I had such codex envy as soon as the sanguinary priest was included in the blood angel codex, just after our current nid book released.
"We have a monstrous creature, that after a psychic test can grant 1 unit feel no pain!"
"...we have a 50 point guy that gives feel no pain to all units within 6". And he's an IC"
If it's indeed a dominatrix type super MC...i am wondering if it will be an HQ...GW likes to put these in HEAVY and ELITE...our ELITE slot is so packed full its a joke...the heavy could take it...but personally it seems like a creature you only want one of...there comes a point where force multipliers plateau off.
Honestly...I think they may have been on the right track...swarmy's boosting abilities might get transferred into this creature...and he might be our "autarch" or "astropath" for reserves manipulation. And powerful enough to go toe to toe with a bloodthirster as usual.
I want the dom to push out USRs...but more than that...I want synapse to mean more.Honestly...I never even track my synapse....I want an advantage/disadvantage feel to it that means I am rewarded but restricted to staying in it.
That needs to change before the dom can do any real good. 4 powers? I want some buffs and some telepathic debuffs, brain paralyzing stuff
Yes, warp field needs to exist on our synapse creatures, not just zoanthropes! No access to invulnerable saves really makes the tyranids extra vulnerable to rending, eldar baby-rending, and all the slews of plasma and other ap2 weaponry on the tables these days.
If it really is a super psychic leader bug, I really don't mind as long as they stick to the history of making new units rather than crap all over the Dominatrix fluff. Making it big but hunched over on the oval base makes sense (and fits the current aesthetic), and not at all like the previous 'as big to the Tervigon as the Wraithknight was to the Wraithlord' absurdity.
Making it bad in assault, but massively powerful psychically as well as handing out army buffs leaves me wondering where the Swarmlords place is. Right now, he does that (though is slightly worse off psychically) on top of being the games best beatstick.
Im wondering what's going to happen to old Swarmy - toned down psychic powers even further? Lose his army buffing ability to be pure beatstick? But that doesn't fit the fluff he has.
It's a cool concept for a bug though. Maybe there will be a sort of hierarchy. Hive Tyrants are the beatsticks with added psychic powers. Swarmlord is the ultimate beatstick with added army support. This new bug drops the beatstick component entirely and becomes the ultimate psychic monstrosity and army supporter.
New Termagants with more poses would be welcome at least to add some visual diversity to my growing swam of Termagants. Plus adding Spike Rifles and Strangle Webs will be great if they also make them worth taking.
The new rumour about Tyranids have two psychic decks - destructive and augmentative - is nice. You can kit out, say, your Tervigons to augment and support while your beatstick Hive Tyrants go full offensive.
I'm liking the rumours a lot - but their odd frequency has me a touch worried that it's simply wishlisting. Rumours haven't come out this close togehter since GW clamped down.
I’d love to be able to make Tervigons spawn Hormogaunts, for a points cost of course. Also, if they made Tervigons a straight ‘troop’ choice, I’d buy another 3 (I have 3 because I’m a douche), then pay for that upgrade, & be throwing H.Gaunts all over the place. I really do prefer H.G’s to standard Gaunts. I’ve got so many normal Gaunts I just throw them all into a plastic bag to take with me to games. The guy above nailed another thing (LOKI). Some new Gaunt poses would be nice. I have been doing my own by bending the tails & re basing them with green stuff, but there is only so much you can do.
I’d love to have some Tyranid specific psychic powers. I do really like Biomancy, but I have had a spate of rolling hemorrhage recently, which is quite annoying. I know we have a few powers already (that were pretty brutal when they came out), but they are kinda tired now IMO.
A new big bug - YES, I would love one, no, in fact, I demand one! Some colossal bad boy that makes everything else look puny would be sweet. Have your opponent firing everything it’s got at it the whole game just to take it down, with the mentality of ‘must kill the big thing’, while my tiny Trygons walk up the board & kill everything in their path!
I’d also love to be able to take Gargoyles as Troops, if you take the wings upgrade on a Tyrant. That would make for some sweet gaming. Hello Harridan??? Makes sense, you know it does!
One thing I REALLY don’t want to see is cultists. I’m already converting a boat load of Guardsmen into Zombies, I can except this as I think it does fit for Chaos, but not for my bugs, please, just no... No ,matter how good they’d be.
I’d love to see the new codex in November (as it’s my Birthday), but I don’t expect it for a while yet. Another member mentioned some stuff about how they release stuff (think it was another thread), & I believe he was right. With the amount of stuff that’s missing from the codex, they have a lot of work to do to make all units available. Unless they just scrap all the none model units & start all over. But lets hope they don’t do that. I quite want a drop spore.
Brood nests. Look them up. That's how Hormagaunts reproduce. Not in Tervigons.
Speaking of... I'd love to see some reflection in the rules about how Hormagaunts operate. They can infest a planet very quickly by laying eggs during the invasion, becoming a problem to eradicate even if the main swarm is defeated. Getting Without Number back for them seems really appropriate.
There was also a cool piece of fluff in the codex about the Swarmlord forcing Hormagaunts to play dead as part of an ambush, before rising up to help beat the crap out of Calgar. It help reflect the swarm nature of Nids if HQ units like the Swarmlord could do ambush attacks like that - creating a small unit nearby for distraction or harassment.
Purely speculative here, but a thought just occurred to me: what if a new kit makes a mycetic spore or a brood nest? It wouldn't be hard, use the bottom half as the same design and modify the top.
Brood nests would be deployed via infiltrate and when a unit using one arrives from reserves it could move/shoot/assault from it. The 6th Ed balance would be the opponent has the chance to destroy the nest before reserves arrive.
I believe that as it stands...brood nests are deployed before infiltrate...like spore mines.
We will not see a hormagaunt spawning creature.
I do think that indescribable horror is going to be more powerful and perhaps come stock on...and maybe only on the dominatrix to prevent it from getting assaulted.
Now...the biggest question I have is what happens ccw.
Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles? Will they get their own version of bladestorm? AP2...3? I can't see AP3 as right now they arent too common and are they only solid way to deal with 2+ sv...which gw is obviously trying to turn away from with graviton weapons.
are any of our creatures getting an ap on their claws? Hormagaunts and stealers at 6 would be nice...right now orks are shooting my beasties up and then able to beat them in assault....the gaunts not the stealers
On to FoC (the ideas/rumors I have heard and give merit to)
what do you think of them?
Tervigon is HQ ONLY
Broodlord to HQ Ymgarls to TROOP upgrade for stealers
other FoC rumors
Tervigon to HEAVY
Pyrovore to HEAVY
Gargoyles to TROOP
Shrikes to TROOP
The gargoyle/shrike as troop would only work for me if a flying tyrant was what made them so. The other FOC swaps would be acceptable, but really only if the expanded FOC turns out to be real.
Another speculation-the flying tyrant kit has 1 free set of arm slots for ranged/cc weapons. His "feet" are actually scything talons. Don't be surprised when taking wings on a tyrant automatically sets one of his weapon slots as scytals. Making the double-devourer flrant a relic of old.
ductvader wrote: Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?
Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.
I was asking what people might think happens to them...
Sadly i feel as though they will become AP3 as power weapons, since they're not unwieldy. The GW design team could easily determine that monstrous creatures give us enough AP2 close combat prowess, that the swords would get a nerf. Hopefully this will come along with a price reduction, as well as maintaining their current instant death ability....Or just make them force weapons.
The only issue I see there is redundancy...when a Hive Tyrant hits with a bonesword he strikes at AP3? But he's AP2 by nature? That's something GW likes to avoid...thus the spinneret rifle and monofilament being AP1 against infantry only.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just hope GW doesn't try to put bugs in the "40k is a shooting game" box...because I love my assaulty nids
ductvader wrote: The only issue I see there is redundancy...when a Hive Tyrant hits with a bonesword he strikes at AP3? But he's AP2 by nature? That's something GW likes to avoid...thus the spinneret rifle and monofilament being AP1 against infantry only.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just hope GW doesn't try to put bugs in the "40k is a shooting game" box...because I love my assaulty nids
CSM Black Mace is AP4 --- Daemon Princes wield it at AP2. There's nothing new about MC's getting a similar weapon to infantry, but hitting harder with it. That's why i think the bonesword needs to maintain the instant death/force weapon aspect to it as well otherwise it would be functionally useless on a hive tyrant, other than to come along with a lash whip.
ductvader wrote: I really think we'll see infantry only rending on ccw here. It's very buggy feeling
No - we have rending claws for that. Boneswords and Lash Whips are now produced bits from GW (resin upgrade sprues) so they won't drop those options. The closest analogue to a bonesword is an imperial power sword, or force sword - which is why i feel the bonesword will mirror that weapon type. The lash whip will probably remain the same initiative dropper, but for the bonesword to mean anything to the big bugs it will need another ability along with AP3 (because it would be ap2 with a hive tyrant). Hence the force weapon prediction.
The only thing I don't like about force weapon is that tyrant guard aren't psykers...unless they must be attached to a tyrant and then gain brotherhood...it doesn't work.
ductvader wrote: The only thing I don't like about force weapon is that tyrant guard aren't psykers...unless they must be attached to a tyrant and then gain brotherhood...it doesn't work.
^This i understand and agree with. But just giving the boneswords the 'instant death' special rule might be a bit OP. Perhaps they could raise the bearer's Weapon Skill to 10?
ductvader wrote: The only thing I don't like about force weapon is that tyrant guard aren't psykers...unless they must be attached to a tyrant and then gain brotherhood...it doesn't work.
It won't be a Force weapon - that'd be near useless to Warriors and Shrikes. Unless they get brotherhood of psykers...
Now THAT would be interesting.
ductvader wrote: Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?
Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.
I was asking what people might think happens to them...
Sadly i feel as though they will become AP3 as power weapons, since they're not unwieldy. The GW design team could easily determine that monstrous creatures give us enough AP2 close combat prowess, that the swords would get a nerf. Hopefully this will come along with a price reduction, as well as maintaining their current instant death ability....Or just make them force weapons.
They could make it so that a single bonesword is AP3, but a pair is AP2. That way the better attack doesn't benefit from lash whips making it too crazy.
I wouldn't be shocked to see them get Soul Blaze rather than instant death, though.
ductvader wrote: Do boneswords stay at ignores armor? That way they dont have ap2 against vehicles?
Yep. Right now Boneswords are AP-, ignore all armour saves.
I was asking what people might think happens to them...
Sadly i feel as though they will become AP3 as power weapons, since they're not unwieldy. The GW design team could easily determine that monstrous creatures give us enough AP2 close combat prowess, that the swords would get a nerf. Hopefully this will come along with a price reduction, as well as maintaining their current instant death ability....Or just make them force weapons.
They could make it so that a single bonesword is AP3, but a pair is AP2. That way the better attack doesn't benefit from lash whips making it too crazy.
I wouldn't be shocked to see them get Soul Blaze rather than instant death, though.
This sounds reasonable but as mentioned i like boneswords the way they are. Hopefully they don't change them but i really do see it as being something they target.
While on the topic of bone weapons, i hope the either mention in the special rules or do the FAQ for bonesabers not being able to be disarmed. When i play against the Eldars Avatar this becomes an issue as he disarms my bonesabers, how do you disarm something that i didn't equip in the first place?! They're his freakin arms!
Also i think this was touched on a bit but i think hormagaunts sything talons should be rending as well. Or at least have it as an upgrade. Added with toxin sacs it would make them nice little tank hunters
Hormagaunts being in a pose that actually uses their hooves instead of having them sort of glide along somehow. Added benefit being that the damn things wouldn't break so easily, because they wouldn't be held onto their base by the tiniest piece of plastic.
(by some random person on deviantART)
HOW? I guess it's supposed to make it look like they're leaping forwards or something, but really it just looks extremely silly.
Well, I'm sad if they do release a spore. I just paid to have to custom ones built.
I can't see the FOC thing being right. The you have to take three HQ things just sounds wrong. You don't have to take two HQs to take an allied force, why would you need to take 3 to get expanded FOC. Plus, pure points wise your killing what you can bring anyway.
Roci wrote: Well, I'm sad if they do release a spore. I just paid to have to custom ones built.
I can't see the FOC thing being right. The you have to take three HQ things just sounds wrong. You don't have to take two HQs to take an allied force, why would you need to take 3 to get expanded FOC. Plus, pure points wise your killing what you can bring anyway.
You do have to take 2 HQs... one primary, one Allied.
I understand what you mean though - but really, do you need the extra FAQ slots before you have the point to spend on a 3rd HQ?
Roci wrote: Well, I'm sad if they do release a spore. I just paid to have to custom ones built.
I can't see the FOC thing being right. The you have to take three HQ things just sounds wrong. You don't have to take two HQs to take an allied force, why would you need to take 3 to get expanded FOC. Plus, pure points wise your killing what you can bring anyway.
You do have to take 2 HQs... one primary, one Allied.
I understand what you mean though - but really, do you need the extra FAQ slots before you have the point to spend on a 3rd HQ?
If you keep your Tervigons in HQ and want all that ELITE goodness...
Has everyone seen Bell's post on bugs?
-------------------------------------------------------
Altered FOC to help counter the lack of Allies. 3 HQ, 4 Elite, 6 Troop, 4 Fast, 4Heavy. Purchasing the 3rd HQ choice unlocks the extra Elite, Fast, and Heavy slots.
Termagants – Gain Fleet. New 10 unit box. Includes options for Spike rifles and Strangleweb. Curled tails. No rippers on sprues.
"BIG BUG" – Larger than Tervigon sized HQ unit. Oval base, hunched over, but wider. Has 18” synapse. Psyker 4. Prime version: Grants FNP and Counter Attack to Nids in 12.” Stats like Tervigon, except 2A. SitW
Two new Tyranid psychic powers lists. One list is destructive powers, one is augmentative powers.
Tervigon – Upgrade options for Termagant spawns to give them full options, but they are quite pricey.
Tyrant Guard and Hive Guard -Dual-build plastic kit. 3 models. All options for either unit.
Lictors – small point increase, gain new “Surprise!” rule (all shots against Lictors the turn after they appear are snap shots). DeathLeaper now an upgrade character.
I like most of those changes. I just really don't want to see a dominatrix in normal 40k. It doesn't seem right to have it because I've always visualized it as the size of a Hierophant.
I thought the dominatrix was a named version of what this creature is going to be. Doing a little research, its supposed to be just smaller than a bio titan...if we're looking at wraithknight proportions...this is going to be about right.
I don't think this MC will be "the dominatrix" if my understanding is correct that it is a named MC
sidenote: I LOVE THE LICTOR CHANGE
I have 6 lictors who are dying to bring back their scare tactics. Deathleaper allowing a squad of lictors to have a 2+ cover on top of all snap shots is awesome.
I went back to my original Daemonhunter tag after my Ramaging Carnifex turned to Tunneling Trygon...I dislike the giant snakes. Also excited for spike rifles. Hoping they become S3 AP4 18" range.
Yeah?...I'm not afraid to wishlist in a specific manner...
ductvader wrote: I thought the dominatrix was a named version of what this creature is going to be. Doing a little research, its supposed to be just smaller than a bio titan...if we're looking at wraithknight proportions...this is going to be about right.
I don't think this MC will be "the dominatrix" if my understanding is correct that it is a named MC
The Dominatrix isn't a "named" MC. It isn't even a MC, it is a GC comparable in size to a Reaver Titan, it is larger than a Hierophant.
Just like the venomthrope was a re-imagined malanthrope, tervigon/tyrranofex are 40k style malefactor/exocrine, this "big bug" will be a re-invented dominatrix under a new name. Still big, but far smaller in scale to the original.
Another thing I wish lictors could do was spray (template) anyone under the template must take a invative test if fails count as teleport homer / tyranids gain preferred enemy against this unit.
easysauce wrote: i just want my genestealer cult rules back... I still ahve that dex... so awesome...
Genestealers cult army would also open up the allies table. Ok you might need some sort of restriction for the allies (No unique characters or Daemons for example), may be a dedicated Stealer HQ (I do like BL being upgrade character) and only Stealers go towards Troop count (so you need a at least 2 units)?
But I fear the only way we'll see that is in "Genestealers cult: A Codex Tyranids Supplement"
easysauce wrote: i just want my genestealer cult rules back... I still ahve that dex... so awesome...
Genestealers cult army would also open up the allies table. Ok you might need some sort of restriction for the allies (No unique characters or Daemons for example), may be a dedicated Stealer HQ (I do like BL being upgrade character) and only Stealers go towards Troop count (so you need a at least 2 units)?
But I fear the only way we'll see that is in "Genestealers cult: A Codex Tyranids Supplement"
The problem with that is supplements so far have been a few bits of wargear, warlord tables, and FoC rearrangements. Personally I'd adore a Genestealer Cult supplement, or even get a bit more ambitious and do a general 'Cults' supplement, with an expanded Chaos Cult list, Genestealer Cult list, and anything else they feel like throwing in there. But that's so far not what Supplements do.
I personally am not a fan of the cults. I like my bug armies with bugs only. But If they did bring them back i would have no problem with it because i know it's a part of Tyranid history that a lot of veteran players know and love i just wouldn't play them, like pyrovores haha. But hey that could change with the new codex too.
Though i must say if they came out with a cool new magnus model i'd probably get one just because i love the idea and i'm sure the model would be fun to customize and paint
easysauce wrote: i just want my genestealer cult rules back... I still ahve that dex... so awesome...
Genestealers cult army would also open up the allies table. Ok you might need some sort of restriction for the allies (No unique characters or Daemons for example), may be a dedicated Stealer HQ (I do like BL being upgrade character) and only Stealers go towards Troop count (so you need a at least 2 units)?
But I fear the only way we'll see that is in "Genestealers cult: A Codex Tyranids Supplement"
The problem with that is supplements so far have been a few bits of wargear, warlord tables, and FoC rearrangements. Personally I'd adore a Genestealer Cult supplement, or even get a bit more ambitious and do a general 'Cults' supplement, with an expanded Chaos Cult list, Genestealer Cult list, and anything else they feel like throwing in there. But that's so far not what Supplements do.
Indeed, I think it's more likely that we'd end up with a Genestealer Cult supplement that is actually more of a Supplement for Imperial Guard, Eldar, Tau and Ork books, with a few restrictions imposed on them (no Special Characters, no Allies) and then a few modifications to normal units (to represent various levels of mutation, brood telepathy, Fearless when within 12" of a purestrain Genestealer etc) and then a few new units to represent the Purestrains, Patriarch, Magus and so on.
Also an idea opportunity to finally do some work on the Broodlord/Patriarch cross-over.
Da krimson barun wrote: Don't forget to pray that Phil Kelly will write it.And not Mat- Blam!Heresy!
Ward wouldn't be bad for the Nids, he gives cool (although usually OP) rules. And in his fluff he seems to have the Nids in a high place as the ultimate enemy of the other races, like the Silent King saying "guys we are fethed, Nids everywhere".
While Cruddace writes stories in the Tyranids Codex about how they get out adapted by Tau. Think it's clear to see who to go with
What annoyed me about the current Tyranid Codex Lore is that most of the time with a few exceptions the Tyranids lost due to stupid reasons. I wouldn't mind if Cruddace wrote it as well, as long as if in the lore the Tyranids actually win a lot more and if the rules were better
Hyrule Hero wrote: My thoughts exactly. No one wants to hear about how their army loses to everyone in the galaxy.
Lamesauce
It's just established history for the Tyranids though isn't it?
Behemoth arrives, smashes into Ultramar, inflicts a lot of damage and is then mostly wiped.
Kraken arrives, spreads itself out and causes ridiculous damage, then is mostly wiped out (this time on two major fronts, Iyanden and Ichar IB, both of which are long-standing established plot elements).
In both instances, a lot of splinter fleets are born from isolated bio-ships that snuck away, fed on a few lightly defended worlds and suddenly became a whole lot more threatening (like an even more widely distributed Kraken).
The additions of Gorgon, Naga, Jormungundr etc to this picture are entirely in keeping with Tyranid history in that it comes in big, sledge-hammer like blows which chew up a lot of worlds and are then shattered into splinters (which are almost impossible to eradicate completely).
Leviathan is on-going, with the Octarius war looking very positive for the Tyranids (and the complete failure of the Imperium to create a second successful plague after Tarsis Ultra; looking very much like the only really effective weapon against the Tyranids has been countered for now). Furthermore, they've actually highlighted that Kraken and Jormungundr have started to gather again in strength (instances of splinter fleets actually re-creating their parent after growing to sufficient size). Really, given the apocalyptic and relentless nature of the Tyranids their narrative has to include an "and then they were stopped somehow, for a while" because if Tyranids keep rolling up the victories then they grow more and more numerous and start pulling off things like Leviathan is at the moment. Treat Tyranid history running up to Leviathan as backdrop that underlines why Leviathan is so dangerous.
That is all well and good, and I believe someone else has mentioned the following in this thread. The Tyranids could not, from a writing perspective, succeed at Ultramar or Iyanden. They had to be defeated, and that doesn't lessen their threat when the writing shows the great costs suffered to defeat them (The description of the Iyanden Avatar vs the Swarmlord is fantastic, although TIGERius or whatever his name is understanding the Hive Mind is just stupid Ultramarine snowflake nonsense). It's the same thing with the Black Crusades - although 13 is a pretty large number of failures, a Black Crusade simply cannot succeed from an out-of-universe perspective, as it would have far too great of an impact on the universe. This is all fine.
However, what is not fine is the Tyranids getting out-adapted by some random and inconsequential Tau group. Just because the forces of Chaos have yet to have a successful Black Crusade does not mean that the CSM codex should be filled with stories of their failures, though, especially not being beaten at their own game. It's like if we had a story about how Khorne Berserkers were defeated in close combat by Guardsmen.
Personally, it doesn't bother me all that much. It does bother a lot of people in the Tyranid community, though, and I can see where they're coming from.
EDIT: I do see your point about them building up, but the same logic therefore must be applied to the Orks. While I have not read the Ork codex, I have not heard complaint about the fluff from Ork players.
The problem with the fluff in the current codex isn't that the Tyranids keep losing - as said, it's established fluff. They can't suddenly have Behemoth win at Macragge. The problem is that it reads like a checklist, with a few interesting tidbits thrown in, and nothing really noteworthy other than the fact that they were beaten.
There's hardly any fluff on the worlds that were destroyed, and if it's there, it's half a paragraph simply stating it was destroyed. The whole fluff section reads like the Tyranids are the galaxies punching bag, rather than the extra-galactic horrors that are devouring worlds that they are. Of course they get defeated, but the defeat shouldn't be the focus of the fluff.
-Loki- wrote: The problem with the fluff in the current codex isn't that the Tyranids keep losing - as said, it's established fluff. They can't suddenly have Behemoth win at Macragge. The problem is that it reads like a checklist, with a few interesting tidbits thrown in, and nothing really noteworthy other than the fact that they were beaten.
There's hardly any fluff on the worlds that were destroyed, and if it's there, it's half a paragraph simply stating it was destroyed. The whole fluff section reads like the Tyranids are the galaxies punching bag, rather than the extra-galactic horrors that are devouring worlds that they are. Of course they get defeated, but the defeat shouldn't be the focus of the fluff.
That's what I would like to see more of too, really. A close-up on a few interesting campaigns, and a good opportunity to showcase some more Tyrannoformation (did I mention that the way the Tyranids hack an ecosystem is incredibly cool and ripe for some sort of in-game role?)...
Exactly. Yes the build up is important and in key battle like Maccrage you can't change things, it's part of history.
But as Loki mentioned all the other fluff is just thrown in there and not much thought is given to it. reading your armies fluff should get you pumped and ready to unleash that same sort of action out on your foes. Not make you go "hmm i guess tyranids are good but they don't seem to win alot"
It's something that i think we're going to see a real change in the new codex, and if not then may the gods have mercy on us all
Hyrule Hero wrote: Exactly. Yes the build up is important and in key battle like Maccrage you can't change things, it's part of history.
But as Loki mentioned all the other fluff is just thrown in there and not much thought is given to it. reading your armies fluff should get you pumped and ready to unleash that same sort of action out on your foes. Not make you go "hmm i guess tyranids are good but they don't seem to win alot"
It's something that i think we're going to see a real change in the new codex, and if not then may the gods have mercy on us all
Anyone ever stop to think that the Tyranids are winning a lot?
They wreck serious face and kill masters of battle hundreds of years old...all the while containing a colective conciousness and become stronger with every fight...The tyanids look to be gaining a whole lot more than they're losing.
Hyrule Hero wrote: Exactly. Yes the build up is important and in key battle like Maccrage you can't change things, it's part of history.
But as Loki mentioned all the other fluff is just thrown in there and not much thought is given to it. reading your armies fluff should get you pumped and ready to unleash that same sort of action out on your foes. Not make you go "hmm i guess tyranids are good but they don't seem to win alot"
It's something that i think we're going to see a real change in the new codex, and if not then may the gods have mercy on us all
Anyone ever stop to think that the Tyranids are winning a lot?
They wreck serious face and kill masters of battle hundreds of years old...all the while containing a colective conciousness and become stronger with every fight...The tyanids look to be gaining a whole lot more than they're losing.
Everytime they seem to fight a named character, they're mortally wounded but miraculously survive to fight again. Marneus Calgar got pasted by the Swarmlord but never got the Eldrad treatment.
tetrisphreak wrote: So the newest batch of rumors are really juicy. I love the idea of whatever bioform your hive tyrant manifests can alter the army composition.
I am not seeing this across the normal reliable sites...where did you hear that?
tetrisphreak wrote: So the newest batch of rumors are really juicy. I love the idea of whatever bioform your hive tyrant manifests can alter the army composition.
It's faeit 212, which has been hit-and-miss but overall I think this is in the very real realm of possibility.
As an aside, I was thinking of lictors today and I really think they need something to represent their close combat prowess, like a "dodge" invulnerable save in cc only (like wyches). Even a 4++ would be acceptable, really.
Faeit's no Bell or BoK but the post feels real enough to me to consider at least.
If the warlord determines the army type is true...I hope this works with primes and possibly tervigons too...no one is going to get sucked in to having to take a tyrant i think
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also...I am completely okay with Tyranid Psychics getting nerfed as long as it means that synergetic buffs take their place. Kind of like tau and necrons have.
"BIG BUG" – Larger than Tervigon sized HQ unit. Oval base, hunched over, but wider. Has 18” synapse. Psyker 4. Prime version: Grants FNP and Counter Attack to Nids in 12.” Stats like Tervigon, except 2A. SitW
Something that might lend a bit of credibility to this, on page 197 in the main rulebook there is a picture of Tyranids fighting against the Imperial Fists and in the background there is a really big Tyranid walking on all 6 pairs of limbs. It doesn't have the reproductive sack of a Tervigon and doesn't match the appearance of any other existing model, so it could be a teaser for the rumored critter (akin to the "unknown Biomorph" on page 216).
It's difficult to say, as the creature is drawn in the style of the 5th edition codex's artwork... It is definitely bigger than a Tervigon though, as there is what looks to be a Harpy flying right above it and a stormraven zooming towards it.
The quality of the rumours this far out is what's making me somewhat skeptical. Generally we don't get these kinds of rumours anymore until someone gets an advance copy of White Dwarf, and that certainly hasn't happened with Tyranids rumoured for November.
The fact is that Tyranids have been a long time coming...as with the ultramarines, tyranids are the pinnacle of all things 40k...this is a realease they've have prepped for a long time and I don't see a better time for it to leak out than in the middle of all the codex marines rumors.
rigeld2 wrote: Hopefully the venom cannons will lose that stupid -1 on the damage chart. It really drops their worth, especially in 6th edition.
I only ask because I've actually started building my nids now, rather than just playing them on vassal, and not sure if its worth leaving arms off everything untill the dex drops?
Based on that faeit rumor...there are supposed to be drastic differences in close combat and shooting biomorphs...taking guns will apparently make close combat better and vice versa.
rigeld2 wrote: Hopefully the venom cannons will lose that stupid -1 on the damage chart. It really drops their worth, especially in 6th edition.
I only ask because I've actually started building my nids now, rather than just playing them on vassal, and not sure if its worth leaving arms off everything untill the dex drops?
Magnetise where you can.
My Carnifexes, for example, have the arms left magnetised, but I didn't bother doing it to the tail, carapace or head. My friends don't mind if say, head options come back and I just 'counts-as' my Carnifexes head upgrades, but arms? Magnetise. If a weapon option becomes illegal, just don't use those arms. If a weapon option you haven't magnetised becomes super viable after years of being terrible(*cough*crushing claws*cough*), simply paint and magnetise the arms.
Best thing you can do with Tyranids is learn to magnetise arms for monstrous creatures.
-1 on the damage chart was made to help tyranids...It means you never blow up tanks in your own face...you have free reign to really swarm the enemy...because to a tyranid player...a vehicle that can't move might as well be dead already
ductvader wrote: -1 on the damage chart was made to help tyranids...It means you never blow up tanks in your own face...you have free reign to really swarm the enemy...because to a tyranid player...a vehicle that can't move might as well be dead already
I'm not sure if I agree with this. Normally if I'm shooting a Venom Cannon at something it is because I don't have anything else to take out the vehicle that turn. Plus, the -1 does more than not make it explode. It means that 2/3 of your shots will have no lasting effect on the vehicle.
rigeld2 wrote: Hopefully the venom cannons will lose that stupid -1 on the damage chart. It really drops their worth, especially in 6th edition.
I only ask because I've actually started building my nids now, rather than just playing them on vassal, and not sure if its worth leaving arms off everything untill the dex drops?
Magnetise where you can.
My Carnifexes, for example, have the arms left magnetised, but I didn't bother doing it to the tail, carapace or head. My friends don't mind if say, head options come back and I just 'counts-as' my Carnifexes head upgrades, but arms? Magnetise. If a weapon option becomes illegal, just don't use those arms. If a weapon option you haven't magnetised becomes super viable after years of being terrible(*cough*crushing claws*cough*), simply paint and magnetise the arms.
Best thing you can do with Tyranids is learn to magnetise arms for monstrous creatures.
Yeah not a bad idea, what about mid sized creatures, Warriors etc do you magnetize them?
Army-wide notes
- No FOC and ally table changes
- Devastation and Adaptation are new power tables with 3 powers each + primaris.
- Primaris for Devastation = Warp Blast, Adaptation = Onslaught (similar to battle-focus)
- All Tyranid powers can be used with either one or two charges to increase the effect.
- Ravenous Advance: Units with this rule can run & assault in the same turn.
- The Ground Trembles: All MC cause d3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
- Red Terror, Deathleaper and Old One Eye are unique upgrades to their respective broods.
-Harpy/Erinye, plastic dual kit.
- Harpy is designed to kill infantry hordes/provide support via its special vector strike.
- Vector striking it can either use Spore Mine Cyst to create blasts along the path or Sonic Screech to halve initiative and cause a pinning test.
- Erinye is an AA variant in Elite, very different front torso/head piece with gribbly tentacles.
- Increased Swoop speed and its gimmick is grappling other flyers.
- Vector strike -> dice roll 4+ -> the enemy flyer is dragged directly behind where the Erinye ended its move, including a new facing.
- Both can buy broods of Gargoyles that can drop off in the movement phase when not vector striking.
-Zoanthrope (Doom)/Genethrope, plastic dual kit.
- Zoanthropes are ML1 psykers, have access to the Devastation, Telepathy, Telekinesis tables.
- Genethropes are similar, but have access to the Adaptation and Biomancy tables.
- New unique biomorphs. Increased Shadow in the Warp range, Deny the Witch boost aura, two others.
- Both types can upgrade up to ML2 but only ever get 1 power, each Elite choice is a unit of 1-3 that can contain mixded Zoan and Gene.
- Doom has access to all the above tables and comes with Essence Leech and 3 powers.
- Consumes a wound every time it uses a power (except for Leech), but can keep casting until a Perils roll or its down to 1 wound.
Mycetic Spore/Mycetic Hive Node, plastic dual kit
- Spore is a Dedicated Transport, notable changes are that SC can join and MC broods can all opt to get spores.
- Hive Nodes are bought by HQ models (1-3 choice for Tyrants, 1 for every other HQ), no transport capacity.
- Nodes provide Synapse and can be configured in one of many ways. Grants poison or shrouding to nearby units or terraforms (Dangerous Terrain) the surroundings.
Carnifex
- Old unused bimorphs in the box are options again.
- Base cost the same but upgrades are much, much cheaper overall but lots of "only buy 1 out of this list" kind of choices which greatly limits what a fex can have.
- Tusked gives HoW an AP value, Thornback increases the number of HoW hits.
- Enhanced Senses gives Night Fighting.
- Tail Scythe & Tail Mace each deliver a single hit to all models in BtB at Ini 1, with different stats.
- Living Battering Ram rule: Changed to allow the Carnifex to assault the contents of a building/transport on a 4+ if it was destroyed by its charge, rolled once for the brood.
ductvader wrote: -1 on the damage chart was made to help tyranids...It means you never blow up tanks in your own face...you have free reign to really swarm the enemy...because to a tyranid player...a vehicle that can't move might as well be dead already
What vehicle would I care about that with that isn't a tank or skimmer?
(answer - not a single one)
Even if it's surrounded tanks or skimmers can move. It may have helped in 4th edition, it didn't help in 5th edition, and it is near worthless in 6th. It's just a dumb, fluffy addition to a weapon that makes me not use them.
ductvader wrote: -1 on the damage chart was made to help tyranids...It means you never blow up tanks in your own face...you have free reign to really swarm the enemy...because to a tyranid player...a vehicle that can't move might as well be dead already
What vehicle would I care about that with that isn't a tank or skimmer?
(answer - not a single one)
Even if it's surrounded tanks or skimmers can move. It may have helped in 4th edition, it didn't help in 5th edition, and it is near worthless in 6th. It's just a dumb, fluffy addition to a weapon that makes me not use them.
You misunderstand.
As long as the weapon damages the vehicle in any way that makes it not move or shoot...it doesn't matter anymore. The swarm isn't preventing that obviously.
ductvader wrote: -1 on the damage chart was made to help tyranids...It means you never blow up tanks in your own face...you have free reign to really swarm the enemy...because to a tyranid player...a vehicle that can't move might as well be dead already
What vehicle would I care about that with that isn't a tank or skimmer?
(answer - not a single one)
Even if it's surrounded tanks or skimmers can move. It may have helped in 4th edition, it didn't help in 5th edition, and it is near worthless in 6th. It's just a dumb, fluffy addition to a weapon that makes me not use them.
You misunderstand.
As long as the weapon damages the vehicle in any way that makes it not move or shoot...it doesn't matter anymore. The swarm isn't preventing that obviously.
... and there are other weapons that do the same thing with the additional chance of killing a tank that I can't (immediately) hurt in CC.
Why would I ever use a HVC over a set of TLBLDevs? Sure, the HVC will get more pens, but if pens are just stopping (and not killing) a tank for me to go punch, it's still a threat.
Why would I ever use a VC over a BS? Warriors are there for anti-infantry, not anti-tank. So I don't really care that the -1 exists here because I'll never really use it.
This is in addition to the fact that the Venom option costs significantly more than any other option...
rigeld2 wrote: Hopefully the venom cannons will lose that stupid -1 on the damage chart. It really drops their worth, especially in 6th edition.
I would like a special rule like "corrosive: a VC (and HVC) strip 2 hullpoints per glance or penetration", make the VC and HVC assault 3, with an increase in strength to the VC (s7), and keep the -1 so the vehicle doesn't explodes, just melts . If you fell it is OP then change it so only penetrations strip 2 hullpoints.
I like the overall feel of the rumors, is that whoever wrote the new book wants nids to have more than 2 useful units in their 6th edition version. I just don't know what to think with so many different sources chiming in so close to one another, yet 3 months out from release. They all look like different parts of the same elephant right now and I think they're playtest rules.
I imagine that tyranid special rules will be something along the line of "can run AND assault" or "assault from deepstrike" or something. It only seems to make sense when you consider the models.
Aeroroot wrote: I imagine that tyranid special rules will be something along the line of "can run AND assault" or "assault from deepstrike" or something. It only seems to make sense when you consider the models.
New batch of rumours in th rumour thread said just this, plus a bunch of other fun stuff that's probably bogus.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Does anyone else think that a weapon called the venom cannon should be Poisoned? It seems a bit silly that it isn't.
You mean like venomthropes and venom blades? Nah...
Venomthrope has Poisoned (2+) close combat attacks. Its Spore Cloud is Dangerous Terrain to represent toxicity, and it also has the Toxic Miasma biomorph, which forces non-vehicle enemies in base contact to take a Toughness test. Venom blades are Poisoned (2+). Or was that not sarcasm?
Frozen Ocean wrote: Does anyone else think that a weapon called the venom cannon should be Poisoned? It seems a bit silly that it isn't.
You mean like venomthropes and venom blades? Nah...
Venomthrope has Poisoned (2+) close combat attacks. Its Spore Cloud is Dangerous Terrain to represent toxicity, and it also has the Toxic Miasma biomorph, which forces non-vehicle enemies in base contact to take a Toughness test. Venom blades are Poisoned (2+). Or was that not sarcasm?
yes...haha...otherwise I would not have specifically picked 2 venom items that wound on a 2+
Ya'know, I think some of those may have a grain of truth to them.
Namely the increase availability of 2+ saves. Reason being that it makes all these new grav weapons more desireable as a counter to monstrous creatures.
MY question is, why does Eldar get a T8 unit? ALL of our MCs should be tougher than a Wraithlord...maybe not a Wraithknight, but come on...a Wraithlord?
I vote ALL TMCs get T8 automatically. They can keep they're 3+ save, no Invuln, just make them tough and menacing!
roxor08 wrote: MY question is, why does Eldar get a T8 unit? ALL of our MCs should be tougher than a Wraithlord...maybe not a Wraithknight, but come on...a Wraithlord?
I vote ALL TMCs get T8 automatically. They can keep they're 3+ save, no Invuln, just make them tough and menacing!
Most equivalent TMCs get more wounds though. The wraithlords have a higher threshold of what counts as a serious hit but a carnifex for example can take more of said serious hits.
ductvader wrote: Tyranids are made of chitin and flesh...like a bug...or a really thick version of your fingernails.
That is not true, Tyranid anatomy isn't like normal animals or bugs. Shoot an elephant with a big rifle, it would die. If you could try with a big dinosaur, it would happen the same.
Now theoretically shoot a gaunt. There is a possibility (depending on the fluff) that the bullet would bounce of the carapace. Any larger Tyranid would ignore it.
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A Carnifex is tougher than an Abrams tank. A Bio-titan could easily take on a WW2 naval fleet. A Tyranid Bio-ship has more firepower that all the existing nukes put together.
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Comparing the Tyranids to normal flesh is like comparing the IoM technology to spears and bows.
ductvader wrote: Tyranids are made of chitin and flesh...like a bug...or a really thick version of your fingernails.
That is not true, Tyranid anatomy isn't like normal animals or bugs. Shoot an elephant with a big rifle, it would die. If you could try with a big dinosaur, it would happen the same.
Now theoretically shoot a gaunt. There is a possibility (depending on the fluff) that the bullet would bounce of the carapace. Any larger Tyranid would ignore it.
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A Carnifex is tougher than an Abrams tank. A Bio-titan could easily take on a WW2 naval fleet. A Tyranid Bio-ship has more firepower that all the existing nukes put together.
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Comparing the Tyranids to normal flesh is like comparing the IoM technology to spears and bows.
Jeez...it was just to give an idea of the material involved...
roxor08 wrote: MY question is, why does Eldar get a T8 unit? ALL of our MCs should be tougher than a Wraithlord...maybe not a Wraithknight, but come on...a Wraithlord?
I vote ALL TMCs get T8 automatically. They can keep they're 3+ save, no Invuln, just make them tough and menacing!
Most equivalent TMCs get more wounds though. The wraithlords have a higher threshold of what counts as a serious hit but a carnifex for example can take more of said serious hits.
All you need for T5 and more wounds to work nicely is making any model in Synapse range gain eternal warrior (and maybe it will not die). Hell doing that would make things like warriors a unit that you could safely take and a workable warrior army is something i would really like.
I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
No. One rail cannon, one DCCW, one wolf lord power fist shouldn't be capable of killing a 30-ft tall monster, snake-like or not.
thats why you give them eternal warrior, or some rule that says they take 2 wounds from double strength instead of dying instantly. at least while in synapse.
imo, fexes should be like T7, since they are supposed to be THE living tanks.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Trygons used to be T7 Gargantuan creatures and are still referred to as Small Bio-titans so being reduced to T5 wouldn't really make sense.
If anything having their T7 back would help them stand out a little from the sea of T6 in the codex.
i more meant other MCs. the trygon should be reduced in toughness. i remember it from FW. also, its bigger than a fex, and its a burrower. it makes sense for it to be at least T6. still say fexes should be T7 though.
hivetyrant765 wrote: i more meant other MCs. the trygon should be reduced in toughness. i remember it from FW. also, its bigger than a fex, and its a burrower. it makes sense for it to be at least T6. still say fexes should be T7 though.
I wasn't quite referring to you, but a T7 fex could be interesting.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
You have to think about gameplay...a Trygon having fleet means that it has to be less survivable...or cost much much more...and more points means less models sold for GW
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
You have to think about gameplay...a Trygon having fleet means that it has to be less survivable...or cost much much more...and more points means less models sold for GW
In what way does having fleet mean a model has to be 'less survivable'? Being 'fleet' means a model is faster, but that doesn't mean inherently weaker as well.
I think the faster = lower toughness is close to the same as flying = lower toughness. Something that wants to move fast needs to be, in theory at least, lighter and more agile. Which would lead you to think it has less armour.
Don't get me wrong, i love MC and i love them even more when they're tough, but just being big shouldn't naturally make you tougher then things that are smaller but better armoured. So the slower moving carnifex that is made for being able to take the hits is tougher then the fast moving assault monster
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think the faster = lower toughness is close to the same as flying = lower toughness. Something that wants to move fast needs to be, in theory at least, lighter and more agile. Which would lead you to think it has less armour.
Don't get me wrong, i love MC and i love them even more when they're tough, but just being big shouldn't naturally make you tougher then things that are smaller but better armoured. So the slower moving carnifex that is made for being able to take the hits is tougher then the fast moving assault monster
In general this is truth, disregard physics when it comes t daemons though.
My comment was more about how GW attempts overall to balance units.
Damage Capabilty
Damage Absorption
Delivery
These are the areas that I would say are the biggest factors in unit costing (there are many mnay others as well, I almost put Versatility in there as well)
As you begin to gain strength in certain areas, you need to lose it in others...or see a points increase. Trygons are snakes and MCs...Delivery and Damage causing are not an issue...damage absorption needs to be their downfall.
Wraithlords...can take and deal the damage...but can't get there...the carnifex is similar in some aspects.
The only unit of our that gets to do it all...is the tyrant...and then you pay the points.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
You have to think about gameplay...a Trygon having fleet means that it has to be less survivable...or cost much much more...and more points means less models sold for GW
A trygon is a *small biotitan* which always implies that it is still pretty damn huge and powerful compared to the rest of the TMC rabble
Heck it used to be a t7 5 wounds Gargantuan creature.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think the faster = lower toughness is close to the same as flying = lower toughness. Something that wants to move fast needs to be, in theory at least, lighter and more agile. Which would lead you to think it has less armour.
Don't get me wrong, i love MC and i love them even more when they're tough, but just being big shouldn't naturally make you tougher then things that are smaller but better armoured. So the slower moving carnifex that is made for being able to take the hits is tougher then the fast moving assault monster
The Trygon is like 2 times the size of the Carnifex, It isn't going to be less tougher.
Sometimes speed is a factor of sheer size, rather than agility. A 30-ft monster by the nature of its structure should move faster than a 12-ft monster. I think the game balance issue here isn't making the Trygons weaker, but carnifexes should have higher toughness.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
You have to think about gameplay...a Trygon having fleet means that it has to be less survivable...or cost much much more...and more points means less models sold for GW
A trygon is a *small biotitan* which always implies that it is still pretty damn huge and powerful compared to the rest of the TMC rabble
Heck it used to be a t7 5 wounds Gargantuan creature.
Hyrule Hero wrote: I think T5 on some TMC for the exchange of more wounds would be okay. Like on a Trygon or Mawloc because they're more snakey and made for moving quickly. But for a carnifex i would stick with T6 since they're the bashers of the army.
Could you imagine a trygon with something crazy like 7 or 8 wounds! even with T5 it would be a ral headache for the opponent to take down
Unless it's something like 100pts or able to fly, no MC should be under T6. Virtually any codex can insta-kill T5 MC's with S10 weapons that have been around forever (Demolishers, Wraithcannons, Railguns).
I would really like to see more variation in MC profiles though, rather than making all Nid MC's equally susceptible to the same weapons. For example:
This means you can't rely on Krak / Plasma weapons (or S6 spam) to counter everything the same way, and you're better off using lascannon / melta against certain creatures.
You have to think about gameplay...a Trygon having fleet means that it has to be less survivable...or cost much much more...and more points means less models sold for GW
A trygon is a *small biotitan* which always implies that it is still pretty damn huge and powerful compared to the rest of the TMC rabble
Heck it used to be a t7 5 wounds Gargantuan creature.
And then they took it out of Apocalypse...
And it's still twice as big as a Carnifex and significantly tougher.
If anything it should be T7 again with an option for a 2+ so that it can drink the tears and butthurt of Krak missile users.
Trygons don't have to be weaker to be Fleet, they just have to cost slightly more points than a theoretical MC with the same stats and without Fleet. Personally I think they're fine the way they are right now.
IMHO Mass = wounds, Mechanics of material = Toughness ... (Mechanics of material is how strong it is) Nurgle Daemon (sorry cannot remember his name or which apoc book he was in) Toughness 10 and a shed load of wounds. Lots of mass and made up by fat and warp energy. His toughness doesn't come from being able to deflect shots but rather that its like shooting water, big splash, ripples and gone. Wraith Lord/Knight are effectively just bone nothing squishy so high toughness. Not much mass so fewer wounds Tyranids have a lots of redundancy built in they also heal very quickly. Lots of wounds but they are still flesh and blood (Not warp energy), so small things can still wear them down.
If i had one wish for the next Nids codex it would be a biomorph that reduced the effectiveness of poison. Ether reroll successful woulds or counting the poison value (ie 4+) as being one worse (ie 5+)
tetrisphreak wrote: Amen to the above! Also require blade storm and rending to re-roll 6's would be nice too, but that's wish listing.
Bladestorm and monofilament are described as the propulsion of microshard projectiles that are so small they can fit through the spaces in the molecules of armor.
Bugs have nothing like this...It would be more of a focus on what living ammo can do...
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know you weren't serious...just laying down the why...
It would be better to gave FNP in their MC, to represent their capacity to regenerate from damage.
And no MC should have lower T than 6, with the exception of FMC like the Harpy.
Also my wish is a rule in our FMC that let them ignore grounding tests.
If there's 1 unit in the entirety of 40k that desperately needs and deserves Feel No Pain it's the current Carnifex. Seriously, every time I read any fluff about a Carnifex it involves said Carnifex feeling no pain.
PrinceRaven wrote: If there's 1 unit in the entirety of 40k that desperately needs and deserves Feel No Pain it's the current Carnifex. Seriously, every time I read any fluff about a Carnifex it involves said Carnifex feeling no pain.
I bet we can guess what the Old One Eye character upgrade is going to do for a fex unit.
(by some random person on deviantART)
