Just stopped by the GW online store and seen that the Australian Blood Bowl box set (in the specialist games part) has dropped its price form $130 to $82.
Scratch that - Got my hopes up.... Was on the wrong country's site :(
After playing quite a lot of Dreadball... anyone who was a fan of Bloodbowl, you really need to try Mantic's game it's bloody brilliant. It's more fun, faster.. and I think all in all a better game! (There, I said it! )
I am hoping to play both, Pacific and I think they might actually feed into each other (i.e. a revamped Bloodbowl gets people interested in sports games and they branch out into futuristic dreadball).
Alpharius wrote: I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that the 40K skirmish Inquisitor game is NOT the "October Surprise" and that it will be Bloodbowl.
Oh well...
I'm still holding out for inquisitor. I really want that to be a thing in skirmish format. Would be so awesome.
But I said in my post I would find BB a bit odd since GW pulled the plug on Specialist Games, though thats my opinion.
Killing off Specialist simply means that they are no longer supporting second tier games. Out doesn't have to stop them from one-off releases, as with Dreadfleet and Space Hulk.
Im hoping for a simpler version of necromunda with a healthy does of eisenhorn / ravenor. If that happens, Ill sell all my armies, and stick with the new game and space hulk!
Seems we haven't had any news on this in a bit... When are we due for a revelation? Marines are out, so hopefully the next release should be leaking out soon, right? I don't follow news and rumors too closely, so I'm not sure precisely when we might begin seeing leaked pics, stuff from WD, etc.
As for me, I sure as heck hope it's Inquisi-munda. And while I normally put my betting money on the exact opposite of what I'd like to see, it seems a bunch of people like Blood Bowl too, so I'm not sure which might happen. Maybe GW won't surprise me though, and instead of Inq/BB, they'll release some third option that NO ONE WHATSOEVER wants.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Maybe GW will nip this new HeroQuest 25th anniversary thing in the bud and do us a proper and bring back on of their Quest games.
That's what every other company with common sense would do, but that's not how GW works
This release will be so cool, GW will not advertise it in WD until it is OOS. Or maybe it will be Bloodbowl which will obviously ramp some folks up but not myself. I've resigned myself to believe there will be no news until gamesday. :(
I have to keep watching the GW website at the end of each month as my local Sainsbury only get WD in on the Tuesday (at the earliest - once it wasn't on sale until the Thurday!!)
Insurgency Walker wrote: This release will be so cool, GW will not advertise it in WD until it is OOS. Or maybe it will be Bloodbowl which will obviously ramp some folks up but not myself. I've resigned myself to believe there will be no news until gamesday. :(
Yeah, if we get news it will probably be at Gamesday or maybe the day before.
But I said in my post I would find BB a bit odd since GW pulled the plug on Specialist Games, though thats my opinion.
Killing off Specialist simply means that they are no longer supporting second tier games. Out doesn't have to stop them from one-off releases, as with Dreadfleet and Space Hulk.
Well if they were intending to do a BB special one-off release then it would've made sense to say about it when Specialist Games was killed off, kinda bit of a silver lining and to build up hype for the eventual release, or better yet announce this skirmish game.
But I said in my post I would find BB a bit odd since GW pulled the plug on Specialist Games, though thats my opinion.
Killing off Specialist simply means that they are no longer supporting second tier games. Out doesn't have to stop them from one-off releases, as with Dreadfleet and Space Hulk.
Well if they were intending to do a BB special one-off release then it would've made sense to say about it when Specialist Games was killed off, kinda bit of a silver lining and to build up hype for the eventual release, or better yet announce this skirmish game.
Alas, GW Marketing...
I wish people would stop blaming something that does not exist.
It's like blaming dragons for being big, unicorns for being pokey or Eskimos for eating all the penguins.
There is certainly a such thing as GW's marketing strategy. There is nothing mythical about clamping down on information right up til release and then posting some teaser vids on YT and sending emails.
stormwell wrote: Well if they were intending to do a BB special one-off release then it would've made sense to say about it when Specialist Games was killed off, kinda bit of a silver lining and to build up hype for the eventual release, or better yet announce this skirmish game.
Tell people what they are working on? Sorry, that's a crazy idea. GW have sales data to prove that telling people what you are going to release before you release it means that by the time you actually release it, they've lost interest and won't buy it.
This theory is also backed up by a quick look at the release strategies used by the movie indust... oh... er... the music... er... the video ga.... er... other miniat.... um... boiling a cane toad in a pot of water and drinking the resultant unpleasant but rather psychedelic brew...
(Don't boil a cane toad in water and drink it... Seriously)
...we're getting closer, and unfortunately, more rumor mongers are starting to lean towards Blood Bowl and, sadly, not a 28mm skirmish 40K Inquisition game.
Unless - someone's heard otherwise?
Certainly seems like the rumours have shifted from the October release being the mystery box (Inquisition or BB game) to the direction of it being a Dark Elves release.
But there is something I would like to mention that hasn't received a lot of attention on this topic though. That is, if the October release was going to be some sort of highly customizable Inquisition game, then GW would need to release kits with plenty of different guns/weapons/armor etc prior to the release of the game - so GW staff could direct customers to them. I believe (and hope) that the release of the sternguard and vanguard marine boxes, with their plentiful array of weapons, is an indication that the Inquisitor game is to follow.
masterdoobie wrote: . That is, if the October release was going to be some sort of highly customizable Inquisition game, then GW would need to release kits with plenty of different guns/weapons/armor etc prior to the release of the game - so GW staff could direct customers to them.
When GW released the original Inquisitor game, it was in a different scale to 40K, and had a very small range of miniatures. It was also a miniatures-based RPG with essentially no campaign support... they just released a ruleset and a handful of miniatures and said 'There you go, get into it!'
Don't make the mistake of assuming that GW always thinks these things through.
Actually I remember them releasing one scenario a month or so after the game came out. So it technically was supported. But, it was DOA due to a poor action mechanic and no balance mechanism for designing Inquisitor squads.
Spoke to a dude who was working at games workshop today who off the record says it's going to be blood bowl. I can't see it myself, but he was convinced. I hope it's not. Personally I've never liked the game despite owning it twice, and really trying to get into it countless times. I want to love it as it combines to of my great loves - gaming and american football however I just find it soooooo mind numbing. Wish I didn't.
I hope it's a 40k based skirmish based game as other rumours allude to.
Or perhaps I can fantasise that it'll be a beautiful, gorkamorka re-boot with beautifully sculpted forge world style vehicles and miniatures. Or totally reworking of battlefleet gothic I can dream can't I?
silent25 wrote: Actually I remember them releasing one scenario a month or so after the game came out. So it technically was supported. But, it was DOA due to a poor action mechanic and no balance mechanism for designing Inquisitor squads.
Yes, it got some support... But not enough to make it a viable game. Those monthly releases vet quickly became bi-monthly, and then just dried up altogether. And while the upgrade packs helped, the miniatures range was never anywhere near big enough, given the scale completely incompatible with anything else.
Black Lantern wrote: Spoke to a dude who was working at games workshop today who off the record says it's going to be blood bowl. I can't see it myself, but he was convinced. I hope it's not. Personally I've never liked the game despite owning it twice, and really trying to get into it countless times. I want to love it as it combines to of my great loves - gaming and american football however I just find it soooooo mind numbing. Wish I didn't.
I hope it's a 40k based skirmish based game as other rumours allude to.
Or perhaps I can fantasise that it'll be a beautiful, gorkamorka re-boot with beautifully sculpted forge world style vehicles and miniatures. Or totally reworking of battlefleet gothic I can dream can't I?
Splod wrote: Meh... Bloodbowl will have a very limited fan base and will never get the support it needs from GW to bring it back to life.
Indeed, a "very limited fan base" that has managed to keep BB going worldwide despite the 5+ or 10+ years of neglect and has spawned insane amounts of 3rd party sculpts to fill the gaps of where GW hasn't been able or willing to cover.
Bloodbowl might not the be premier game or even part of the Big Three, but it is far from dead.
That said, I would love either of these to be released, BB or 28mm =][= but I don't want to be disappointed if neither came, which is where this thread is leading me to.
stormwell wrote: Well if they were intending to do a BB special one-off release then it would've made sense to say about it when Specialist Games was killed off, kinda bit of a silver lining and to build up hype for the eventual release, or better yet announce this skirmish game.
Tell people what they are working on? Sorry, that's a crazy idea. GW have sales data to prove that telling people what you are going to release before you release it means that by the time you actually release it, they've lost interest and won't buy it.
This theory is also backed up by a quick look at the release strategies used by the movie indust... oh... er... the music... er... the video ga.... er... other miniat.... um... boiling a cane toad in a pot of water and drinking the resultant unpleasant but rather psychedelic brew...
(Don't boil a cane toad in water and drink it... Seriously)
But then film producers, novel writers and music artists don't need to worry about having their product copied before its even released.
Alpharius wrote: Again, all signs point towards Blood Bowl or....nothing.
No INQ40K Skirmish Game.
I agree, we're not seeing any new rumours and we're approaching the prophesied delivery time. With their current release schedule of 40k and fantasy, I don't see them investing the time or resources into getting something like this out until next year at the earliest. Also with rumours flying around with the return of specialist games next year (albeit in box sets only), this romoured game will probably get dumped into that release schedule.
Daston wrote: But then film producers, novel writers and music artists don't need to worry about having their product copied before its even released.
Not entirely true. Back in the 90's/early 00's, there was a period there where pretty much every movie Pixar made, Dreamworks pushed out a similar (generally not as good) movie.
We've seen similar things happen with video games... Studio announces it is working on something, some other studio rushes out a similar product. There as some big post-apoc zombie game in the news for this just recently.
Copies will happen. Bunkering in and not telling anyone what you are working on is certainly one way of dealing with that. The other (or at least, the other obvious one) is to simply make sure that the end product is better than the copy. Which should be a given anyway, for the company that is the self-proclaimed market leader of miniature wargaming.
Although it's worth pointing out that GW have never claimed that the news blackout was to stop other companies from copying upcoming releases. That's purely something that the internet cooked up. GW's publicly stated reason for not telling us what they are working on is that not knowing something is being released makes people more excited to buy it.
Which is backed up by sales, apparently. Look at Space Hulk... once news leaked early that GW were re-releasing Space Hulk, everybody completely lost interest by release time. It must have been a damn heartbreaker for GW having all of those unsold Space Hulk copies just sitting there on shelves...
Black Lantern wrote: Spoke to a dude who was working at games workshop today who off the record says it's going to be blood bowl. I can't see it myself, but he was convinced. I hope it's not. Personally I've never liked the game despite owning it twice, and really trying to get into it countless times. I want to love it as it combines to of my great loves - gaming and american football however I just find it soooooo mind numbing. Wish I didn't.
I hope it's a 40k based skirmish based game as other rumours allude to.
Or perhaps I can fantasise that it'll be a beautiful, gorkamorka re-boot with beautifully sculpted forge world style vehicles and miniatures. Or totally reworking of battlefleet gothic I can dream can't I?
Pinch of salt on the bolded bit.
Agreed. In the space of day he's gone from being convinced and speaking with an inside air of certainty, to shall we say not being sure at all
Daston wrote: But then film producers, novel writers and music artists don't need to worry about having their product copied before its even released.
Not entirely true. Back in the 90's/early 00's, there was a period there where pretty much every movie Pixar made, Dreamworks pushed out a similar (generally not as good) movie.
masterdoobie wrote: . That is, if the October release was going to be some sort of highly customizable Inquisition game, then GW would need to release kits with plenty of different guns/weapons/armor etc prior to the release of the game - so GW staff could direct customers to them.
When GW released the original Inquisitor game, it was in a different scale to 40K, and had a very small range of miniatures. It was also a miniatures-based RPG with essentially no campaign support... they just released a ruleset and a handful of miniatures and said 'There you go, get into it!'
Don't make the mistake of assuming that GW always thinks these things through.
The original Inquisitor was an RPG that they released a few models for. It was never intended to be a model game.
Not that this is any reason to not bash GW for not releasing new models for a game that wasn't supposed to have them. Presumably the sales of the models they did release weren't strong enough, or they would have.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Oh my... Iron Eagle? Never heard of that one. Now I'm really curious!
Iron Eagle was awesome...
it was no Top Gun, but still cool...
then they went and made a few sequels that were horrible...
not good...
i'm bummed that this Inquisition game doesn't seem to be panning out...
i was really looking forward to some awesome one-off minis...
it would be nice to see GW step-up the Grimdark, and do some of the minis from the excellent pool of Inquisition art...
zhangyi over at Warseer wrote:so it's clear now, that DE will be released during two months. October we will have warrior, witch elves, blood throne, Kharibdyss (dont know what is it), and a plastic shadowblade.
as we can see GW has put bg, chariot and dark riders to next month along with innocence (the 40K table game,i'm 95% certain that it will be in November). for good reason we can split our money to two months. that's really kind.
for the price:
shadowblade, £12
warrior,£20
witch,£35
throne,£45
kha…balabalabala,£40
zhangyi over at Warseer wrote:so it's clear now, that DE will be released during two months. October we will have warrior, witch elves, blood throne, Kharibdyss (dont know what is it), and a plastic shadowblade.
as we can see GW has put bg, chariot and dark riders to next month along with innocence (the 40K table game,i'm 95% certain that it will be in November). for good reason we can split our money to two months. that's really kind.
for the price:
shadowblade, £12
warrior,£20
witch,£35
throne,£45
kha…balabalabala,£40
Emphasis by me.
"Innocence"? (speculation)Perhaps the game could be called "Inquisition: Innocence Proves Nothing" or something along those lines?(/speculation) The useful thing is zhangyi has provided us with a wee barometer to judge the accuracy of the 40K black box game comment with his specific demarcation of which DE units will be released when.
I want to believe I really do, but at this point I think I'll just wait and see rather than get excited; we've had too many inaccurate rumours over the last year or so.
zhangyi over at Warseer wrote:so it's clear now, that DE will be released during two months. October we will have warrior, witch elves, blood throne, Kharibdyss (dont know what is it), and a plastic shadowblade.
as we can see GW has put bg, chariot and dark riders to next month along with innocence (the 40K table game,i'm 95% certain that it will be in November). for good reason we can split our money to two months. that's really kind.
for the price:
shadowblade, £12
warrior,£20
witch,£35
throne,£45
kha…balabalabala,£40
Emphasis by me.
Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
Zweischneid wrote: Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
I usually don't post links to posts in popular forums, when it just takes 10 seconds to find the exact same text.
Spamming the forum with the same question in every thread will not change that.
Zweischneid wrote: Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
I usually don't post links to posts in popular forums, when it just takes 10 seconds to find the exact same text.
Spamming the forum with the same question in every thread will not change that.
Well, why do you nick stuff from other sites and forums, without proper attribution? And why do I have to "go search" if you obviously must be trawling these sites to steal their content over to Dakka in the first place?
Zweischneid wrote: Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
I usually don't post links to posts in popular forums, when it just takes 10 seconds to find the exact same text.
Spamming the forum with the same question in every thread will not change that.
Well, why do you nick stuff from other sites and forums, without proper attribution? And why do I have to "go search" if you obviously must be trawling these sites to steal their content over to Dakka in the first place?
Zweischneid wrote: Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
I usually don't post links to posts in popular forums, when it just takes 10 seconds to find the exact same text.
Spamming the forum with the same question in every thread will not change that.
Well, why do you nick stuff from other sites and forums, without proper attribution? And why do I have to "go search" if you obviously must be trawling these sites to steal their content over to Dakka in the first place?
Kroot is attributing them as right at the top of the post is
"zhangyi over at Warseer wrote"
as for him bringing stuff over from other forums... I'd hope anybody on Dakka who browses elsewhere would do so if they find something interesting
Zweischneid wrote: Where's the link to the original you pilfered this from?
I usually don't post links to posts in popular forums, when it just takes 10 seconds to find the exact same text.
Spamming the forum with the same question in every thread will not change that.
Well, why do you nick stuff from other sites and forums, without proper attribution? And why do I have to "go search" if you obviously must be trawling these sites to steal their content over to Dakka in the first place?
Kroot is attributing them as right at the top of the post is
"zhangyi over at Warseer wrote"
as for him bringing stuff over from other forums... I'd hope anybody on Dakka who browses elsewhere would do so if they find something interesting
But that doesn't allow an easy verification, because you need to "go looking for it". Which is needless, since Kroothawk must've been to a given site to get the stuff in the first place.
And even on an internet-forum, you need to provide proper references... or you're plain stealing.
Kroot is attributing them as right at the top of the post is
"zhangyi over at Warseer wrote"
as for him bringing stuff over from other forums... I'd hope anybody on Dakka who browses elsewhere would do so if they find something interesting
But that doesn't allow an easy verification, because you need to "go looking for it". Which is needless, since Kroothawk must've been to a given site to get the stuff in the first place.
And even on an internet-forum, you need to provide proper references... or you're plain stealing.
Stop being so ing lazy! Use the ing google. This isn't a masters dissertation.
Okay, to stop your aggressive spamming of all rumour threads here the links:
Warseer: http://www.warseer.com/forums/forum.php faeit212: http://natfka.blogspot.de/ And when I attribute a post to "zhangyi over at Warseer", it is by a poster named zhangyi over at the Warseer forum.
Hope that helps.
Back on topic, please. Kroothawk's method is sufficient for the staff here at DakkaDakka. If anyone would like a url link to the rumors he cites, please PM him with a respectful request.
xruslanx wrote: The original Inquisitor was an RPG that they released a few models for. It was never intended to be a model game.
And yet the rulebook states on page 19 that players need '...a selection of miniatures to represent their characters...' in order to play the game.
GW described Inquisitor as a 'Narrative Wargame'. It was a miniatures wargame that utilised an RPG-style narrative system. In 28mm, with the sort of support that Necromunda received, it could have been huge.
zhangyi over at Warseer wrote:so it's clear now, that DE will be released during two months. October we will have warrior, witch elves, blood throne, Kharibdyss (dont know what is it), and a plastic shadowblade.
as we can see GW has put bg, chariot and dark riders to next month along with innocence (the 40K table game,i'm 95% certain that it will be in November). for good reason we can split our money to two months. that's really kind.
for the price:
shadowblade, £12
warrior,£20
witch,£35
throne,£45
kha…balabalabala,£40
Emphasis by me.
Very exciteing find kroot! I'm still holding carefull optimism for this.
This 40K-scale Inquisition game sounds good. All the Blanchitsu articles were great, and if they can produce some Inquisitors and retinue in plastic, with the same detail as Dark Vengeance, I'm in.
Kroothawk wrote: My prediction: They make it limited, produce stock for only 2 days and then celebrate selling out so fast (Space Hulk strategy).
For a few years GW has been trying to produce a one off game that leads into the 40K univers that they can sell in standard stores like Toys R Us. Maybe this is that step but then again....
If they have, they're doing a very poor job of it. No retailer is going to buy into a $100 Space Hulk for $100 Dreafleet box. Those were intended as hobby purchases, for hobby stores.
Although I did hear they were recently laughed out of Wal-Mart, with their prices.
This could be cool. Though I guess there's a chance it could fail. And besides, it'd have to be really good for me to fork out on the inevitable large price tag.
I doubt I would anyway, as I really dislike Blanche artwork and if the models are inspired by it, well...
Mr. Konrad wrote: I'm not sure about Gorkamorka adding functioning vehcile rules. Replayed it recently and it was chart after chart after chart for the vehicles and far too much checking per shot.
I recently replayed it too. Gorkamorka addvehicle MAL-functioning rules. It's not a game, it's a random Orky vehicular mayhem generator. So much fun we've got a game scheduled for next month! WAAAAAAGH! CRASH! BOOM!
This too. Gorkamorka was an excuse to make the then-new plastic Ork trukk. If they really went whole hog and made even more plastic vehicle and super-detailed Ork warrior models (think of all the companies that do add-on bits) and some accessory sprues, it would be great.
Then again, Gorkamorka is also the game that nearly bankrupted the company.
Pacific wrote: Is it pure coincidence that this is going to arrive at a similar time to Mantic's Deadzone? Also the concept would sound to be quite similar..
I'd say it's a coincidence. GW models take 18-30 months to actually come out from the time they're initially designed, so unless they were just sitting on this stuff for a long, long time, it's purely coincidence.
And why would GW ever be concerned about Mantic? Except for people using Mantic modes as filler for WHFB games, I don't think they even show up on GW's radar.
Don't be too sure. With so many companies making models in plastic now, and Mantic making clear knock-offs of their stuff, the barrier to entry has never been lower.
Warzone came the closest to giving GW a run for their money, but there was also Vor and Void at that time. Now, with GW's prices being at an all-time high, we're seeing competitors as well.
Pacific wrote: Is it pure coincidence that this is going to arrive at a similar time to Mantic's Deadzone? Also the concept would sound to be quite similar..
I'd say it's a coincidence. GW models take 18-30 months to actually come out from the time they're initially designed, so unless they were just sitting on this stuff for a long, long time, it's purely coincidence.
And why would GW ever be concerned about Mantic? Except for people using Mantic modes as filler for WHFB games, I don't think they even show up on GW's radar.
Don't be too sure. With so many companies making models in plastic now, and Mantic making clear knock-offs of their stuff, the barrier to entry has never been lower.
Warzone came the closest to giving GW a run for their money, but there was also Vor and Void at that time. Now, with GW's prices being at an all-time high, we're seeing competitors as well.
And looking at the recent Mantic Men-at-arms, they're a waaays off in terms of quality. Most of the other companies (resurrected Warzone, etc.) all are charging right in the same ballpark as GW prices. So its not like the competition is really overwhelming with either cost savings or quality (certain small lines, boutique games, 5 model skirmish games excepted of course).
As far as the Inquisition game, if it has Blanche styled minis, that would not be value added for me. I dislike his particular style regardless of how iconic it is. However, if GW makes it limited ed (as we know they would), I'd have to plunk down for the rules, so they'd have my sale anyway.
Cruentus wrote: And looking at the recent Mantic Men-at-arms, they're a waaays off in terms of quality. Most of the other companies (resurrected Warzone, etc.) all are charging right in the same ballpark as GW prices. So its not like the competition is really overwhelming with either cost savings or quality (certain small lines, boutique games, 5 model skirmish games excepted of course).
As far as the Inquisition game, if it has Blanche styled minis, that would not be value added for me. I dislike his particular style regardless of how iconic it is. However, if GW makes it limited ed (as we know they would), I'd have to plunk down for the rules, so they'd have my sale anyway.
Mantic is all over the place, and they took some brickbats for those goblin archers, but they started strong, with those zombies, skeletons and ghouls. People say the elves look bad until you see them in person.
Other companies charge as much because theyre niche, but Mantic regiment boxes are clearly lower in price; $25 for Mantic versus $35+ for GW.
Malika2 wrote: So what do you like about 40k then? *confused*
Just because one does not like JB's art does not mean one cant like 40k. I hate his horrid scribbles and paint splatters, but still like 40k for the background. It is a stupid notion that the love of 40k is dependent on one liking his bad art.
Yes i know he had a hand in the formation of 40k lore, but that was decades ago. And it still looked crap at that time. Now withh so many talented artists about in the buisness his art just looks even worse.
Yes, but most of the minis of his that has been portrayed over the years in WD look like they have been dipped in glue, rolled in his bitsbox and then dunked in random pots of paint.
Making a whole game after that look would be a major error. Tone it down, then the blanche fanstaics can throw glue, bits and paint at the models after that.
Yes, but most of the minis of his that has been portrayed over the years in WD look like they have been dipped in glue, rolled in his bitsbox and then dunked in random pots of paint.
Making a whole game after that look would be a major error. Tone it down, then the blanche fanstaics can throw glue, bits and paint at the models after that.
Don't we already have that with the action figure models that are introduced in each new Codex?
Yes, but most of the minis of his that has been portrayed over the years in WD look like they have been dipped in glue, rolled in his bitsbox and then dunked in random pots of paint.
Making a whole game after that look would be a major error. Tone it down, then the blanche fanstaics can throw glue, bits and paint at the models after that.
You do know Blanche does quite a lot of the concept artwork for the various different ranges, yes? You also know that his position in the company gives him substantial input in almost all the artwork they put out, not just his own stuff, yes? How JB chooses to paint his miniatures has absolutely no bearing at all on whether models based on his art(ie, quite a lot of the models GW makes) will be good or otherwise.
If you dislike Blanche, you dislike 40K, it really is that simple, because his art and input has shaped so much of it and inspired so many others at the company. "Scribblenaughts" can engage in whatever mental gymnastics they feel the need for in order to get around that, but they need to stop pretending the man's work is objectively bad, and they need to stop trying to diminish his role in shaping the universe they are ostensibly fans of, because the way some people behave when this subject comes up is just getting petty.
Hmm, I'm gonna pull out of this discussion before it gets too big. We're here to discuss the possible release of a new cool game, not whether we like Blanche or not. We've already had plenty of Blanche discussions here, and I'm personally not in the mood for another one.
Yes, but most of the minis of his that has been portrayed over the years in WD look like they have been dipped in glue, rolled in his bitsbox and then dunked in random pots of paint.
Making a whole game after that look would be a major error. Tone it down, then the blanche fanstaics can throw glue, bits and paint at the models after that.
You do know Blanche does quite a lot of the concept artwork for the various different ranges, yes? You also know that his position in the company gives him substantial input in almost all the artwork they put out, not just his own stuff, yes? How JB chooses to paint his miniatures has absolutely no bearing at all on whether models based on his art(ie, quite a lot of the models GW makes) will be good or otherwise.
If you dislike Blanche, you dislike 40K, it really is that simple, because his art and input has shaped so much of it and inspired so many others at the company. "Scribblenaughts" can engage in whatever mental gymnastics they feel the need for in order to get around that, but they need to stop pretending the man's work is objectively bad, and they need to stop trying to diminish his role in shaping the universe they are ostensibly fans of, because the way some people behave when this subject comes up is just getting petty.
It is not thst simple, nor is it "fact" in any way, no matter how much you claim that it is.
For everybody asking about Gorkamorka, remember they tooled a lot of new stuff; the Ork vehicles, the wartrakk, and the basic boyz themselves. On top of that people were already weary of the six month games at that time, and few players liked Orks. Remember, little Tommy plays Space Marines, not Orks. Apparently they spent so much, and and made so little (it was given away as a free subscription WD offer) it nearly bankrupted them.
chris_valera wrote: For everybody asking about Gorkamorka, remember they tooled a lot of new stuff; the Ork vehicles, the wartrakk, and the basic boyz themselves. On top of that people were already weary of the six month games at that time, and few players liked Orks. Remember, little Tommy plays Space Marines, not Orks. Apparently they spent so much, and and made so little (it was given away as a free subscription WD offer) it nearly bankrupted them.
--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com
Never heard that. Is there an interview or citation somewhere?
The only side effect I saw from Gorkamorka, at least in the gamestores I frequented, was people using hordes of Gorkamorka figures in their 40K ork armies since they looked tougher than the cartoony 2nd edition stuff.
For everybody asking about Gorkamorka, remember they tooled a lot of new stuff; the Ork vehicles, the wartrakk, and the basic boyz themselves. On top of that people were already weary of the six month games at that time, and few players liked Orks. Remember, little Tommy plays Space Marines, not Orks. Apparently they spent so much, and and made so little (it was given away as a free subscription WD offer) it nearly bankrupted them.
I can't say as I ever even heard anything remotely along those lines, and I was already an old hand at 40K when that game came out. I remember lots of people liking it, tons of White Dwarf and Fanatic magazine material, and lots of Ork players using the stuff in their 40K armies.
Also, a lot of the vehicle material from Gorkamorka was directly from 2nd ed 40K, which I believe was the current edition when it started, though I think the transition to 3rd was starting at the tail end of support for Gorkamorka. All the charts and die rolling was evident in the main game, as well as slow/combat/fast speeds, etc..
Just to play devil's advocate: Wouldn't that make it too generic?The recent big boxes released by GW have been a bit more specific. Assault on Black Reach, Battle for Skull Pass, Hoo-haa on Blood Island, Debby does Dusseldorf, GrimDark Vengeance...
That kind of title would make it appear generic and long lasting... surely that can't be the plan? [/sarcasm]
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just to play devil's advocate: Wouldn't that make it too generic?The recent big boxes released by GW have been a bit more specific. Assault on Black Reach, Battle for Skull Pass, Hoo-haa on Blood Island, Debby does Dusseldorf, GrimDark Vengeance...
Those are all starter sets for 40k and WFB, though. Actual boxed games released by GW have short names; Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Mordheim, Dreadfleet, etc. Either Warhammer 40,000: Inquisition or Innocence would follow that naming convention. Though I would agree Kroot is probably right on the money and It will be WH40k Inquisition: Innocence Proves Nothing. Sort of like the Grim Darkness tagline for 40k.
Getting all the codex updated before releasing side games !
Orks have been waiting how long now ?
But hey lets take time to make this instead of re doing the codex from 2008.....GW is beyond frustrating.....
The one thing people probably shouldn't be complaining about in regards to GW is their current release schedule. A 40k codex every 2 months is pretty insane. Combined with supplements and a rapid string of Fantasy books. Honestly, if GW get Orks out next year (which seems likely) they'll still be 4 years ahead of the previous lifespan of the Ork Codex.
Getting all the codex updated before releasing side games !
Orks have been waiting how long now ?
But hey lets take time to make this instead of re doing the codex from 2008.....GW is beyond frustrating.....
The one thing people probably shouldn't be complaining about in regards to GW is their current release schedule. A 40k codex every 2 months is pretty insane. Combined with supplements and a rapid string of Fantasy books. Honestly, if GW get Orks out next year (which seems likely) they'll still be 4 years ahead of the previous lifespan of the Ork Codex.
My complaint is newer books are getting redone before older ones. Marines and nids both had newer books than the current ork codex, yet still are getting new things before the orks.
Yes they release things faster, but the order sucks.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: My complaint is newer books are getting redone before older ones. Marines and nids both had newer books than the current ork codex, yet still are getting new things before the orks.
Yes they release things faster, but the order sucks.
Marines always release faster than Xenos. Codex marines get a new book every edition. As for Nids (allegedly) getting a new book before orks? They need it more.
Nids are going to get a new codex because they are still the best selling Xenos of all. They get a codex every edition (the only xenos army for this still to be true).
Come back in another 5 years and complain about orks. You're still only at half their previous shelf life.
On Topic I will froth at the mouth for an Inq. skirmish game. I think it would sell like hotcakes and if they keep it in production will be a long term money maker for them.
Hulksmash wrote: Nids are going to get a new codex because they are still the best selling Xenos of all. They get a codex every edition (the only xenos army for this still to be true).
Come back in another 5 years and complain about orks. You're still only at half their previous shelf life.
On Topic I will froth at the mouth for an Inq. skirmish game. I think it would sell like hotcakes and if they keep it in production will be a long term money maker for them.
So it is ok for an army that got released in Jan 2010 to get updated before an army who got released in jan 2008 ?
I don't have high hopes for a new =I= skirmish game after the dreadfleet game.
Im not letting myself get to exited about this.
First, rumors keep saying "next month, for sure"; will we ever get there?
Second, will they really put out an all new game one month before, the next hobbit game? Feels like bilbo has tough competition from codex/armubook releases as it is.
Third, the rumor (shallow as it is) sounds more like a one shot boardgame than a new specialist game, and that limit my interest greatly.
Just my thoughts. I would still get it in a heartbeat if it actually show up though
Fayric wrote: Im not letting myself get to exited about this.
First, rumors keep saying "next month, for sure"; will we ever get there?
That's not really accurate. The initial rumors mentioned a fall release, specifically saying after Space marines. Other rumors, mainly anonymous ones from the Faeit 212 blog, had suggested otherwise, or stated is wasn't coming at all. So, as far as reliable rumormongers, of which Tasty Taste can be included, the original information seems to be still accurate.
Puscifer wrote: Do we know what models or even if this game will be supported like when Necromunda was first released?
A fair amount of models or just those in the box?
It seems it will just include the models in the box, but the rumors suggestion the flexibility to create your own warband, so creating your own models with conversions would seem to be an option(this is certainly nothing new for the INQ28/Inquisimunda crowd). Tasty Taste mentioned possible continued support if it was a success, and if people posting are an indication, there seems to be huge interest in this game, so continued support could be likely.
My personal thoughts are that GW is probably looking ahead to a post-Hobbit future, and splash releases of these box games drive a lot of interest and are big money makers(excluding Dreadfleet). By killing off Specialist Games, this frees them up to re-release boxed sets for these IPs, or new ones like Inquisition, but can limit the model production needed to the box sets. Ideally they will create games that can be expanded via their current model range, so for example, Inquisition could feature other factions of aliens or heretics, so you could have a Chaos Cult or a Space Marine Scout kill team, or a Tau Expeditionary Force, etc. That is just what I would like to see, but it would be a smart move as with a little effort they could encourage people to purchase a box from another army, and maybe from there they get interested and expand it to an Ally faction for an existing army, or a full scale army. Granted this is not too much different from the idea of Kill Team, but having a box set built around it would certainly drive more interest than a PDF release.
I just realized why Inquisimunda seems to be on the radar for GW.
You know how most people that do those kind of projects use multiple different kits as source of bits and pieces? Now imagine a system where you potentially need to buy three, five or seven plastic kits to make one, ONE, miniature.
Someone at GW Marketing must have suffered from a month long case of priapism when they realized that.
You know how most people that do those kind of projects use multiple different kits as source of bits and pieces? Now imagine a system where you potentially need to buy three, five or seven plastic kits to make one, ONE, miniature.
Someone at GW Marketing must have suffered from a month long case of priapism when they realized that.
So is this going to be mordheim 40k? Because that with more factions to choose from and ma ye small vehicles would be awesome.is that essentially what necromunda was?
Orock wrote: So is this going to be mordheim 40k? Because that with more factions to choose from and ma ye small vehicles would be awesome.is that essentially what necromunda was?
Necromunda was kinda like Mordheim but obviously 40k related. The rules for Necromunda were basically 2nd ed 40k, with a good campaign system.
Vehicles only came into it if you used the expanded rules from the old citadel journal.
Orock wrote: So is this going to be mordheim 40k? Because that with more factions to choose from and ma ye small vehicles would be awesome.is that essentially what necromunda was?
Necromunda was kinda like Mordheim but obviously 40k related. The rules for Necromunda were basically 2nd ed 40k, with a good campaign system.
Vehicles only came into it if you used the expanded rules from the old citadel journal.
Wasent that human only gangs though no dreads or marines or orks or anything interesting
Orock wrote: So is this going to be mordheim 40k? Because that with more factions to choose from and ma ye small vehicles would be awesome.is that essentially what necromunda was?
Necromunda was kinda like Mordheim but obviously 40k related. The rules for Necromunda were basically 2nd ed 40k, with a good campaign system.
Vehicles only came into it if you used the expanded rules from the old citadel journal.
Wasent that human only gangs though no dreads or marines or orks or anything interesting
You could play anything, but there were no hard and fast rules.
I played in a three year long campaign where the guys who ran it used non player stuff.
One guy had three Marines, another had some Eldar Rangers. A third guy had some Orks.
It was probably the most fun I've had in gaming. My Goliath Gang was awesome and the games were incredibly varied.
You could play anything, but there were no hard and fast rules.
I played in a three year long campaign where the guys who ran it used non player stuff.
One guy had three Marines, another had some Eldar Rangers. A third guy had some Orks.
It was probably the most fun I've had in gaming. My Goliath Gang was awesome and the games were incredibly varied.
I miss those old school models and the rules.
That for me was GW at it's best.
Indeed, of all the games I've played over the years, there were always these moments in Necromunda games that still stand out over all the other games. It is a world away from the current incarnation of 40k, and the competitive meta surrounding it. Not saying that is a bad thing necessarily, but it is quite different from the philosophy of that type of gaming, and hopefully, Inquisition, or whatever it is called, will go back to that spirit for skirmish level gaming.
You could play anything, but there were no hard and fast rules.
I played in a three year long campaign where the guys who ran it used non player stuff.
One guy had three Marines, another had some Eldar Rangers. A third guy had some Orks.
It was probably the most fun I've had in gaming. My Goliath Gang was awesome and the games were incredibly varied.
I miss those old school models and the rules.
That for me was GW at it's best.
Indeed, of all the games I've played over the years, there were always these moments in Necromunda games that still stand out over all the other games. It is a world away from the current incarnation of 40k, and the competitive meta surrounding it. Not saying that is a bad thing necessarily, but it is quite different from the philosophy of that type of gaming, and hopefully, Inquisition, or whatever it is called, will go back to that spirit for skirmish level gaming.
+1.
For me... this competitive meta and the attitudes of the competitive gamer is what has ruined 40k for me.
I've just moved back to my hometown and my old gaming buddies are starting up a 40k campaign with earlier edition rulesets. We are going to vote on which edition and then make rules for the newer stuff. No flyers though.
Orock wrote: So is this going to be mordheim 40k? Because that with more factions to choose from and ma ye small vehicles would be awesome.is that essentially what necromunda was?
Necromunda was kinda like Mordheim but obviously 40k related. The rules for Necromunda were basically 2nd ed 40k, with a good campaign system.
Vehicles only came into it if you used the expanded rules from the old citadel journal.
Wasent that human only gangs though no dreads or marines or orks or anything interesting
Puscifer wrote: The story was actually pretty good for Ultramarines.
It was a blatant copy of the (meagre) storyline of Aliens: Get in to look for survivors (basically in vain), get out fighting for survival, make it to the dropship only to have an end fight against a sneaked in enemy boss.
I'm still in the boat of "too good to be true" - but it is impossible to ignore what a massive success a 28mm +I+ system would be for GW, how it would ship product and draw in new hobbyists.
And yes on the Necromunda Nostalgia trail - what a great game that one was/is.
Malika2 wrote: The rumours have the potential of being true, especially since the fellow behind this blog got recruited by GW recently...
I dunno, that post was in what, May? A game wouldn't go from "still in development" to release in 5 months. It might go from the printers to release in 5 months, but I wouldn't imagine he has a hand in it, unless he's been working with them in a freelance/unofficial capacity.
I'm still in the boat of "too good to be true" - but it is impossible to ignore what a massive success a 28mm +I+ system would be for GW, how it would ship product and draw in new hobbyists.
And yes on the Necromunda Nostalgia trail - what a great game that one was/is.
Well the good news is that the guy who mentioned the game by the name Innocence was dead on with the Dark Elf releases that have just leaked(both on which units were getting kits, and their prices). That gives me a lot of optimism that we will indeed see some sort of confirmation in the next few weeks.
Indeed, of all the games I've played over the years, there were always these moments in Necromunda games that still stand out over all the other games. It is a world away from the current incarnation of 40k, and the competitive meta surrounding it. Not saying that is a bad thing necessarily, but it is quite different from the philosophy of that type of gaming, and hopefully, Inquisition, or whatever it is called, will go back to that spirit for skirmish level gaming.
I would like to think so, but I don't think that 90% of the current breed of 40K gamer can have any fun playing a game like Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Mordheim. Not unless they are gamers who have been with 40K for some time. I just don't think they have the mindset.
Indeed, of all the games I've played over the years, there were always these moments in Necromunda games that still stand out over all the other games. It is a world away from the current incarnation of 40k, and the competitive meta surrounding it. Not saying that is a bad thing necessarily, but it is quite different from the philosophy of that type of gaming, and hopefully, Inquisition, or whatever it is called, will go back to that spirit for skirmish level gaming.
I would like to think so, but I don't think that 90% of the current breed of 40K gamer can have any fun playing a game like Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Mordheim. Not unless they are gamers who have been with 40K for some time. I just don't think they have the mindset.
Well, I hope more people can get out of the WAAC mindset and try a different type of gaming. That said, I'm only really concerned about my ability to play that type of game with friends and have updated rules, and hopefully some amazing new miniatures as well.
Wrong mindset on both sides of the fence, it seems. A good ruleset can deal with powergaming by being balanced to be reasonably abuse-proof. If you're experiencing bad sportsmanship in opponents: find another opponent. That's not the between front and rear cover of the rulebook, that's between the left and right ears of your opponent.
Not according to Warseer. They inexplicably closed their rumor thread on the subject, citing that 40k Radio said no mystery box, and that more recently the Dark Elf leaks for October somehow disprove a release in November for Inquisition. Going off their past attitude towards leaks or rumors thread closures, I'd say we can pretty much call this one confirmed for release in November!
Not according to Warseer. They inexplicably closed their rumor thread on the subject, citing that 40k Radio said no mystery box, and that more recently the Dark Elf leaks for October somehow disprove a release in November for Inquisition. Going off their past attitude towards leaks or rumors thread closures, I'd say we can pretty much call this one confirmed for release in November!
I abandoned Warseer ages ago. Pretty much nothing ever happens there anymore. About the only thing happening there is some really good painting logs.
As much as it saddens me I think we're going to be disappointed on this one. I can think of no reason why we haven't seen any pics 'leaked' at the same time as the Dark Elf ones.
As much as I like the DE models the only interest they hold for me is the potential for new HE core (why oh why didn't we get any GW, ours are about the worst looking in the game).
I was really looking forward to a special box (woulda preferred blood bowl) and would have instantly shelled out for something as pretty as space hulk with barely a thought. Dread fleet however was awful but I hope that doesn't put GW off the idea of special boxes, it was the game that was bad, not the model of a one off game.
I'm not sure we would be seeing leaks yet. We all know GW have tightened up a lot and the dark elf leaks have only come thick and fast close to launch date. If Inquisitor is t due to November we might only start seeing some cryptic teasers at Games Day and more info next month as White dwarf gets leaked out again.
Nephilim
Although I did hear they were recently laughed out of Wal-Mart, with their prices.
My understanding was that it wasn't recently, and also involved their list of "Demands" - such as their own aisle, no discounts on closeout stock, etc etc. I'm sure someone here would have a link to some info.
Then again, Gorkamorka is also the game that nearly bankrupted the company.
citation? Or link?
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chris_valera wrote: For everybody asking about Gorkamorka, remember they tooled a lot of new stuff; the Ork vehicles, the wartrakk, and the basic boyz themselves. On top of that people were already weary of the six month games at that time, and few players liked Orks. Remember, little Tommy plays Space Marines, not Orks. Apparently they spent so much, and and made so little (it was given away as a free subscription WD offer) it nearly bankrupted them.
At that time (here in Australia, at least) there were several choice of the free Subscription game, I'm pretty sure I picked up 2 copies of GM, and one of Necromunda (which was essentially out of production by that time as well) with 3 years worth of of subscription, all paid for at once.
Ugly Green Trog wrote: I can think of no reason why we haven't seen any pics 'leaked' at the same time as the Dark Elf ones.
DE are a October release. The box is supposed to be a November release. That's kinda a big one, right?
Well seeing as the rumour said September/October and we've not heard anything new saying November, other than speculation, then I would say no. The only thing DE in October proves is that DE are in October. I'm not saying the box doesn't exist but every other special box has been September/ October. I would like this rumour to be true but at this point we have nothing much other than the original rumour and a whole heap of speculation and wish listing.
Well seeing as the rumour said September/October and we've not heard anything new saying November, other than speculation, then I would say no. The only thing DE in October proves is that DE are in October. I'm not saying the box doesn't exist but every other special box has been September/ October. I would like this rumour to be true but at this point we have nothing much other than the original rumour and a whole heap of speculation and wish listing.
So did you just miss it or are you ignoring the more recent rumor about a November release from a guy who also accurately listed the DE release list and prices before they were announced? Exact release windows on rumors can always change many months down the road.
And the past release schedule of GW doesn't necessarily have any bearing on current release patterns. If that were true we would still be getting 2-3 codexes a year rather than one every other month as we are now. Things can and do change.
Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
Malika2 wrote: Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
Malika2 wrote: Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
Context?
Just look it up in the WD, or google the quote man!
Ok ok, I'm teasing you! In the Jeremy Vetock section there is a list of possible game scenarios, this one was suggested as one of them. Might be totally nothing, but might also be a hint.
Malika2 wrote: Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
Context?
Actually, come to think of it that column COULD have been talking about Inquisitor, without talking about Inquisitor.
It was an article from Jeremy Vetock, where he talked about designing multiplayer narrative scenarios for his annual Halloween games, where he talked about small scale games a fair bit.
Malika2 wrote: Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
It would be pretty awesome if your own characters were capable of being corrupted. Better than just a small version of 40k with a handful of Imperium and chaos fighting it out.
Malika2 wrote: Is this little snippet from the latest WD a hint to the upcoming game?
Or a deadly standoff where rival Inquisitor bands fight to halt cultist activities while simultaneously attempting to find out if their allies are 'corrupted'
It would be pretty awesome if your own characters were capable of being corrupted. Better than just a small version of 40k with a handful of Imperium and chaos fighting it out.
If they did this, I hope you will be able to include things like small SM units (DOW 2), Adeptus Arbites, Ad Mech and others to represent planets and evenSM Chapters becoming corrupted. Then you could have campaigns re enacting a planet's rebellion against the Imperium or the Blood Ravens' civil war.
I'm a bit out of touch with rumors and when they surface but I do know GW has been clamping down. If this is a real thing and is due for release in November - when would we possibly see some leaks starting to appear ? A month ? Two weeks ?
Nephilim
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Is it possible this actually links up with the AS codex release? Someone was the I symbol and assumed inquisition, instead of sororitas?
Some years ago, the download of the WD Codex for Blood Angels was for free and nobody made a fuss about it.
Now they charge a lot of money for an overdue download for the slightly updated Sororitas WD Codex (with some essential minis OOP), and everybody goes crazy, dreaming of a full new Codex and wishlisting a miniature release.
This digital release has no consequence on non-digital releases, other than giving GW an excuse to not work on Sororitas for the next two years. Now they can say that Sororitas have currrent rules, would be embarrasing to admit that Sororitas got nothing new since 10 years and counting.
Some years ago, the download of the WD Codex for Blood Angels was for free and nobody made a fuss about it.
Now they charge a lot of money for an overdue download for the slightly updated Sororitas WD Codex (with some essential minis OOP), and everybody goes crazy, dreaming of a full new Codex and wishlisting a miniature release.
This digital release has no consequence on non-digital releases, other than giving GW an excuse to not work on Sororitas for the next two years. Now they can say that Sororitas have currrent rules, would be embarrasing to admit that Sororitas got nothing new since 10 years and counting.
C:WH was for free on download as well, for a while. What's your point?
'slightly updated' You're already wrong about this. There are screen shots of more than just a cut and paste (points and units changes, new wargear, new missions, apoc formations, etc) and the book is over 109 pages at this point (granted e-reader pages, but still).
Guys, I know there isn't much to talk about here re the Inquisition game but things are starting to drift off topic. There is a separate thread for Sisters discussion over here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/554140.page
Back to the rumour's. In the Iron Hands rumour thread here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/556865.page there are a list of leaks from the November White Dwarf - and no mention of an Inquisitor game at all so far. I know it is hard to judge these things but that probably indicates no release for November now.
On a happier note the Forge World thread here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/549764.page has some info from the new Horus Heresy rule book and it makes passing reference to a Rogue Trader Militant Armies list. If I can't have some Inquisition then I'll happily have some Rogue Trader instead !
Not according to Warseer. They inexplicably closed their rumor thread on the subject, citing that 40k Radio said no mystery box, and that more recently the Dark Elf leaks for October somehow disprove a release in November for Inquisition. Going off their past attitude towards leaks or rumors thread closures, I'd say we can pretty much call this one confirmed for release in November!
Warseer are idiots, even GW staff hate them. They came down hard on the poster who suggested Tyranids were getting a big beatie that was bigger than a Carnifex.
You're not a real GW forum poster unless you've been banned from Warseer half a dozen times.
In the Andy Chambers interview Kroothawk linked to in general, he mentions the desperate need for a gateway 40K game (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist) If he can see the need, and is talking about it publicly, I'm sure GW are at least conscious of the gap, even if they aren't working on a way of filling it right now.
All things considered, while the details might vary, I think this is a case of when, rather than if.
azreal13 wrote: In the Andy Chambers interview Kroothawk linked to in general, he mentions the desperate need for a gateway 40K game (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist) If he can see the need, and is talking about it publicly, I'm sure GW are at least conscious of the gap, even if they aren't working on a way of filling it right now.
I think, for 10 years, everyone except Tom Kirby sees the need.
The thing is, will this new thing be a tournament game or a "casual" game. A large part of WM/WH and the new game by Mantic is that they are tournament oriented.
azreal13 wrote: In the Andy Chambers interview Kroothawk linked to in general, he mentions the desperate need for a gateway 40K game (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist) If he can see the need, and is talking about it publicly, I'm sure GW are at least conscious of the gap, even if they aren't working on a way of filling it right now.
I think, for 10 years, everyone except Tom Kirby sees the need.
Lol, granted.
I suspect this is below Kirby's pay grade though (although he is, I'm sure, responsible for the culture that means an opportunity like this goes begging, rather than someone risk saying something "controversial")
I'm just joining the dots between the reports that Jervis was doing "something odd" at Games Day UK and the fact that, given he says he still says in touch with some fairly senior studio figures, that mentioning this may indicate it is near the front of his consciousness for some reason.
Warseer are idiots, even GW staff hate them. They came down hard on the poster who suggested Tyranids were getting a big beatie that was bigger than a Carnifex.
You're not a real GW forum poster unless you've been banned from Warseer half a dozen times.
I was just poking fun of them for essentially playing favorites with rumormongers and closing threads because of it. They're free to run their site however they like, though, it doesn't really bother me and it's certainly not worth getting upset about.
Also, as much as I want this game to be a reality, it doesn't look likely for this year.
I'm just hoping that it is still in the works and shows up in 2014.
It is just about the only ting that GW's even hinted at doing in the last 5 years that's had me anticipating its release...
The feeling is mutual. I want to play games set in the 40k universe, but I'm just not inclined to start full armies any longer, for a number of reasons.
I still have hope for a november release, since zhangei, seems to be a pretty reliable rumour monger. At worst , I expect a february release, since 40k radio didn't say what was getting released that month, and they seem to be pretty close to GW, and they probably don't want this to leak .
Compel wrote: I thought all that Jervis was doing at Games Day was doing an 'Game Design for Dummies' style lesson to people that'd turn up to chat to him.
That's what he was doing, but the amateur detective in me wonders "where" that odd little demo thing he was supposed to be doing came from?
Starfarer wrote: I want to play games set in the 40k universe, but I'm just not inclined to start full armies any longer, for a number of reasons.
That's what the 40KRPGs are for.
Or Deadzone even.. sure you could work in proxies of Marines->Enforcers and Orks->Plague extremely easily, it would even fit with the fighting taking place on a hive or factory world with regards to terrain.
Starfarer wrote: I want to play games set in the 40k universe, but I'm just not inclined to start full armies any longer, for a number of reasons.
That's what the 40KRPGs are for.
I'm not an RPG guy. I want a tabletop game, just smaller scale. If they don't make one, I can stick to Necromunda, but I'd prefer something more up to date, as would just about everyone who has commented here it seems.
Or Deadzone even.. sure you could work in proxies of Marines->Enforcers and Orks->Plague extremely easily, it would even fit with the fighting taking place on a hive or factory world with regards to terrain.
Deadzone may be great, but I'd sooner just use something like Death Squads if I'm going to use unofficial rules.
Compel wrote: I thought all that Jervis was doing at Games Day was doing an 'Game Design for Dummies' style lesson to people that'd turn up to chat to him.
That's what he was doing, but the amateur detective in me wonders "where" that odd little demo thing he was supposed to be doing came from?
xxvaderxx wrote: The thing is, will this new thing be a tournament game or a "casual" game. A large part of WM/WH and the new game by Mantic is that they are tournament oriented.
Not a chance, GW does not understand the tournament mindset, or ever shown interestin in catering for it.
xxvaderxx wrote: The thing is, will this new thing be a tournament game or a "casual" game. A large part of WM/WH and the new game by Mantic is that they are tournament oriented.
Not a chance, GW does not understand the tournament mindset, or ever shown interestin in catering for it.
And that's one of the few things I like about the company these days. Tournament types can claim orienting games towards them doesn't affect other styles of play, "tighter rules are better for everyone" etc, but that's not been my experience and since almost all the alternative systems that have been springing up recently have taken such a tack I'd rather GW stuck to focusing on narrative(and modelling, but that's become a bit limited as well these days with their "why convert when you can BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS" routine).
azreal13 wrote: In the Andy Chambers interview Kroothawk linked to in general, he mentions the desperate need for a gateway 40K game (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist) If he can see the need, and is talking about it publicly, I'm sure GW are at least conscious of the gap, even if they aren't working on a way of filling it right now.
All things considered, while the details might vary, I think this is a case of when, rather than if.
I'm not sure about how much the opinions of ex-staffers (even high-level ones like Chambers, or Priestly) have anything to do with their current practice...
The need extends beyond a gateway game to cater for older games who dont always have the time or to paint and play a large army. A smaller skirmish or gang based game plays towards this audience too. I love zone mortalis and space hulk just because I can physically manage to play them enjoyably. Setting up a full 40k game as life and careers take over can be a monumental task on it's own!
xxvaderxx wrote: The thing is, will this new thing be a tournament game or a "casual" game. A large part of WM/WH and the new game by Mantic is that they are tournament oriented.
Not a chance, GW does not understand the tournament mindset, or ever shown interestin in catering for it.
And that's one of the few things I like about the company these days. Tournament types can claim orienting games towards them doesn't affect other styles of play, "tighter rules are better for everyone" etc, but that's not been my experience and since almost all the alternative systems that have been springing up recently have taken such a tack I'd rather GW stuck to focusing on narrative(and modelling, but that's become a bit limited as well these days with their "why convert when you can BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS" routine).
Except, concepts of 'narrative', 'cinematic' and a tight rule set are not exclusive of each other. Many other games manage it, GW have themselves with some of their games in the past.
The great trick GW seem to have managed to pull, and that many people seem to buy, is that their lazy, 100% sales-at-the-expense-of-everything-else-orientated approach is something that exists as an alternative to having a game that two players can play on an equal footing, regardless of their unit/list composition and whether they are trying to make a 'competitive' or 'fluffy' list.
Azazelx wrote:
azreal13 wrote: In the Andy Chambers interview Kroothawk linked to in general, he mentions the desperate need for a gateway 40K game (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist) If he can see the need, and is talking about it publicly, I'm sure GW are at least conscious of the gap, even if they aren't working on a way of filling it right now.
All things considered, while the details might vary, I think this is a case of when, rather than if.
I'm not sure about how much the opinions of ex-staffers (even high-level ones like Chambers, or Priestly) have anything to do with their current practice...
I'm not sure even the current guys have much to do with it, cause I'm sure just like us it is something they would love to do. But, the fact is that everything comes from the sales team, and its been obvious for some (actually, many) years now that small skirmish games that are playable at a low price are not part of the company's strategy.
Given that we got suppliments, rumour has it, at the behest of the creatives, they could have pestered the sales guys into releasing an entry level/skirmish game. Stranger things have happened.
Knockagh wrote: The need extends beyond a gateway game to cater for older games who dont always have the time or to paint and play a large army. A smaller skirmish or gang based game plays towards this audience too. I love zone mortalis and space hulk just because I can physically manage to play them enjoyably. Setting up a full 40k game as life and careers take over can be a monumental task on it's own!
Indeed, this is an issue for me as I'm sure a lot of other older gamers and I'm glad you pointed it out. Although it is looking less and less likely GW has plans to cater to us in the near future.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: With nothing mentioning this in the new WD cover, its dead for Nov, yes?
The Reasonable Man would say yes. The GW Man is not reasonable.
We got the info on Nov release from someone with access to retailer info on DE (that has proven to be 100% accurate), but then again they did give it a 90% chance of coming out. Could be the game is ready and simply looking for a slot to fit in. GW is not beyond releasing something out of the blue.
Dakka posters have the new WD in hand (and are posting all the Dark Elves stuff in their thread)
so I'd say no November release
this leaves us with
a fake rumour
date was wrong (or optimistic)
it was real but so limited they sold out to GW high level staff before it even reached WD. Yes that's right Kirby and friends are playing it now, Inquisition limited edition of about 10 copies....
it was real but so limited they sold out to GW high level staff before it even reached WD. Yes that's right Kirby and friends are playing it now, Inquisition limited edition of about 10 copies....
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Dakka posters have the new WD in hand (and are posting all the Dark Elves stuff in their thread)
so I'd say no November release
this leaves us with
a fake rumour
date was wrong (or optimistic)
it was real but so limited they sold out to GW high level staff before it even reached WD. Yes that's right Kirby and friends are playing it now, Inquisition limited edition of about 10 copies....
With diamond and gold plated models valued at $1000 each. After playing heir first game they realized how good we have I with the low cost of plastic, so another price rise is now in the works. After all the new librarian with the naked baby should easily be $50.
This was but another pipe dream...to bad, maybe someone else will run with all the ideas put out here.
Yeah, sorry guys. I'm the one who got my hands on WD early and I've read the thing front to back. No mention of a skirmish game, or even a specialist game at that.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah, sorry guys. I'm the one who got my hands on WD early and I've read the thing front to back. No mention of a skirmish game, or even a specialist game at that.
happygolucky wrote: Is it just DE? or is there other releases for other army's in the WD?
There's some army box releases in time for christmas, but that's about it.
Blacheitsu returns in all its glory, though. And as I said, no mention of a specialist game at all. Optimists can still hold onto hope (don't blame me when they are dashed, though)
A Tau box (contains a Riptide and 6 Broadsides)
An Eldar box (contains a Wraithknight, 2 Wraithlords and 15 Waraithguard)
A Space Marine box (contains a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons)
A Chaos Warrior box (contains a Giant, Slaughterbrute, 6 Dragon Ogres and 2 Chaos Spawn)
A Dark Elf box (contains the new Fleetmaster and Chariot, 20 Dreadspears, 20 Corsairs and 5 Cold One Knights)
and finally 2 Vampire Counts boxes (one with a Wight King, 20 Skeleton Warriors, 10 Grave Guard and 5 Black Knights, the other with a Necromancer, 20 Ghouls, 3 Crypt Horrors and a Garden of Morr)
xxvaderxx wrote: The thing is, will this new thing be a tournament game or a "casual" game. A large part of WM/WH and the new game by Mantic is that they are tournament oriented.
Not a chance, GW does not understand the tournament mindset, or ever shown interestin in catering for it.
And that's one of the few things I like about the company these days. Tournament types can claim orienting games towards them doesn't affect other styles of play, "tighter rules are better for everyone" etc, but that's not been my experience and since almost all the alternative systems that have been springing up recently have taken such a tack I'd rather GW stuck to focusing on narrative(and modelling, but that's become a bit limited as well these days with their "why convert when you can BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS BUY THIS" routine).
Except, concepts of 'narrative', 'cinematic' and a tight rule set are not exclusive of each other. Many other games manage it, GW have themselves with some of their games in the past.
The great trick GW seem to have managed to pull, and that many people seem to buy, is that their lazy, 100% sales-at-the-expense-of-everything-else-orientated approach is something that exists as an alternative to having a game that two players can play on an equal footing, regardless of their unit/list composition and whether they are trying to make a 'competitive' or 'fluffy' list.
And the great trick competitive players have managed to pull is to convince people that "tight" rules benefit everybody. The more options you give people, the harder it is to balance everything versus everything else whether that's rules, or wargear, or units. There comes a point when you have to make a choice between rules that put everyone on an equal footing, and giving the players more choices and relying on them to have some semblance of sportsmanship - the 6th edition Allies rules are a perfect example.
Most of the complaints about them come from competitive or semi-competitive players who bemoan the way they allow armies to circumvent their weaknesses or amplify their strengths to an unbalanced degree. Well, the only way to get rid of that as an issue is to either make the rules more restrictive, or eliminate them entirely. But many of us like the Allies rules, they let us compose fluffy armies without having to resort to getting opponent's consent before every game, they allow us to combine units from different armies to represent forces that have no official rules of their own like the Mechanicus.
Forgeworld is another example; 90%+ of the units and lists they put out for 40K are either spot-on balance wise, or even slightly underpowered/overcosted, but because of the sheer volume of units they put out, there's usually a handful that are overpowered/undercosted to some degree and because of the size of the team they take a while to fix. As far as I'm concerned, that is absolutely a worthwhile tradeoff, but the response of many competition-focused players is to claim FW are "unofficial" or just flat-out refuse to play with them or participate in tournaments which allow them.
If you make the rules tight enough to satisfy competition-focused players, that necessarily means you must also make them more restrictive and more limited in scope, which is in direct conflict with the desires of "fluff" gamers who want as many options open to them as possible.
Blachitsu is John Blanche's segment where he displays INQ28 and Inquisition warbands made by him and others he's met.
People were speculating that his article were a lead up to Inquisition (I doubted it, and still do)
If you make the rules tight enough to satisfy competition-focused players, that necessarily means you must also make them more restrictive and more limited in scope, which is in direct conflict with the desires of "fluff" gamers who want as many options open to them as possible.
Yodhrin, I don't mean this as a criticism (and please don't take it as so), but you really need to try some other games. There are indeed some that have fewer options than 40k (Kings of War springs to mind), but a lot of the stuff on the market has a similar amount if not more and yet still manages to maintain game mechanics that are more balanced. Please note I'm not using the term 'completely balanced' here, because they are not - but there are degrees of balance and numbers of loopholes, it's a sliding scale.
By way of example, Infinity has about 30-40 different unit types per faction (there are 8/9) and each one of these has between 3-8 different loadout options. On top of this, there are loads more special rules, which interact with each other in a much more fundamental and complex way, and yet the game still manages to maintain a far greater degree of balance so that you don't end up trying to artificially channel the players into list building either 'competitive' or 'fluffy' games - with fireworks and wasted time resulting if both players want something different from the game. And it's as 'cinematic' as they come, in fact more so because it doesn't have the ridiculous level of abstraction that 40k contains, and its as easy as anything to create narrative games and scenarios. In fact, I would say that kind of thing is far more common than in 40k.
Having a massive range of stuff does not give the games designers carte blanche to throw their hands up in the air, cry 'cinematic!' or 'narrative!' and just not bother trying to balance the games at all, and there are several examples on the market right now that prove this isn't the case.
If you make the rules tight enough to satisfy competition-focused players, that necessarily means you must also make them more restrictive and more limited in scope, which is in direct conflict with the desires of "fluff" gamers who want as many options open to them as possible.
Yodhrin, I don't mean this as a criticism (and please don't take it as so), but you really need to try some other games. There are indeed some that have fewer options than 40k (Kings of War springs to mind), but a lot of the stuff on the market has a similar amount if not more and yet still manages to maintain game mechanics that are more balanced. Please note I'm not using the term 'completely balanced' here, because they are not - but there are degrees of balance and numbers of loopholes, it's a sliding scale.
By way of example, Infinity has about 30-40 different unit types per faction (there are 8/9) and each one of these has between 3-8 different loadout options. On top of this, there are loads more special rules, which interact with each other in a much more fundamental and complex way, and yet the game still manages to maintain a far greater degree of balance so that you don't end up trying to artificially channel the players into list building either 'competitive' or 'fluffy' games - with fireworks and wasted time resulting if both players want something different from the game. And it's as 'cinematic' as they come, in fact more so because it doesn't have the ridiculous level of abstraction that 40k contains, and its as easy as anything to create narrative games and scenarios. In fact, I would say that kind of thing is far more common than in 40k.
Having a massive range of stuff does not give the games designers carte blanche to throw their hands up in the air, cry 'cinematic!' or 'narrative!' and just not bother trying to balance the games at all, and there are several examples on the market right now that prove this isn't the case.
Ah yes, the old "you can't like GW games unless you play nothing but GW games" canard. For the record, I have forces from going on a dozen different non-GW systems, sadly many of them now defunct. I take the position I do precisely because I've spent a fair amount of time with other systems, but I keep coming back to 40K and the various Specialist Games because they give me experiences I've not found elsewhere yet and I love the universe. I'll have to take your work for it on Infinity, as I've not played that and don't plan to as the storyline doesn't appeal, but if what you say is accurate then it's an exception not a rule compared to the other systems I've used.
Yodhrin wrote: And the great trick competitive players have managed to pull is to convince people that "tight" rules benefit everybody.
It's not a trick. I'm as casual a player as they come (I care more about the story-driven RPG than the table-top game), and I want a set of tight, unambiguous balanced (or as balanced as possible) rules. There's no trick to that. That's something all games should strive for.
A tight rule-set is ALWAYS preferable. Loose rules results in situations where you aren't sure how something works which results in arguments at the table and at best slowing down the game as you re-read stuff over and over and eventually have to house rule it on the fly or do a dice off which means that one person is probably getting the raw deal. You can have plenty of options AND have tight balanced rules it just requires a lot of playtesting and erratas to fix issues when they come up. Having stuff be inherently more powerful or weak than their points suggest because of "fluff" results in situations like in Fantasy 7th edition where I saw Brettonian armies tabled second turn by min-maxed Slannesh demons which is really no fun for either side unless the demon player is a dick. Saying that you can't have both is just a cop out.
On topic that's a bummer about the White Dwarf and I'm holding out hope that this is still in production for some time in the future.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (or as balanced as possible) rules. There's no trick to that. That's something all games should strive for.
No.
Most "hobby" and "collectible" games these day, including most video games, skylanders, MtG, etc.. all purposefully strive for a healthy bit of imbalance to create a meta-game and allow meaningful play across a variety of skill-levels.
I am not saying that 40K gets it right, but Go&Chess-style "perfect balance" is definitely not the goal, never was, never will be.
)
I can dream can't I? 
ing lazy! Use the 
