Nice to see we will be getting that variation after all.
The right arm on those alt guards looks wrong to me and now that I've noticed it I can't unsee it.
Overall, the game looks appealing to me. I don't feel compelled to jump in right now but I'm definitely going to seriously consider pledging when it's closer to the end and I can see what the final stretch goal tally will be. I don't mind having duplicate minis in the game. It's a board game first so I never expected it to look like a box of Conan themed Darklands quality minis. I'm more interested in seeing enough minis in the box to make all the different scenarios fun than having a bunch unique sculpts. I can always proxy minis I already have for better/different visuals and let some of the boardgame minis do double duty as painting practice for my kids who are just starting to show interest in gaming.
Sinful Hero wrote: Hmm, well I suppose I'll be waiting for retail then. Seems pretty steep for PVC models IMO after adding in shipping.
It's already almost at a $1/model
Once the last stretch goal is hit at $250K, the King pledge will be sitting at 126 minis for $135. PVC or not, thats still pretty dang good, and it should only get better as they reveal more stretch goals.
Sinful Hero wrote: Hmm, well I suppose I'll be waiting for retail then. Seems pretty steep for PVC models IMO after adding in shipping.
It's already almost at a $1/model
Once the last stretch goal is hit at $250K, the King pledge will be sitting at 126 minis for $135. PVC or not, thats still pretty dang good, and it should only get better as they reveal more stretch goals.
Of course, don't forget to add shipping to that. It's currently at $150 for those minis, if the unlocked stretch goals haven't already driven the total up. I'm planning on waiting for a good sale at retail(maybe around Black Friday), and picking it up if I'm still interested without worrying about unknown shipping charges. Doesn't Sedition Wars(another PVC board game) routinely get discounted to $25?
Sinful Hero wrote: Hmm, well I suppose I'll be waiting for retail then. Seems pretty steep for PVC models IMO after adding in shipping.
It's already almost at a $1/model
Once the last stretch goal is hit at $250K, the King pledge will be sitting at 126 minis for $135. PVC or not, thats still pretty dang good, and it should only get better as they reveal more stretch goals.
Of course, don't forget to add shipping to that. It's currently at $150 for those minis, if the unlocked stretch goals haven't already driven the total up. I'm planning on waiting for a good sale at retail(maybe around Black Friday), and picking it up if I'm still interested without worrying about unknown shipping charges. Doesn't Sedition Wars(another PVC board game) routinely get discounted to $25?
True, but I think that had more to do with the issues Sedition Wars had, more so than just because it was PVC minis.(Also you can totally buy Sedition Wars for $29 TODAY from MiniatureMarket. Crazy cheap.)
I think I paid under 20 for my cousin's Sedition Wars.
Do you think they'll keep the same quantities of figures for retail? I don't think we've seen a game of this type with that many figures retail at 100.
Stuff like Descent, Myth, and the like have about half as many.
It'll be interesting to see what retail looks like vs the final tally at the end of the kickstarter.
After having heard mention of 3d terrain markers and objectives, I'm pretty stoked about this one.
Do you think they'll keep the same quantities of figures for retail? I don't think we've seen a game of this type with that many figures retail at 100.
Stuff like Descent, Myth, and the like have about half as many.
It'll be interesting to see what retail looks like vs the final tally at the end of the kickstarter.
After having heard mention of 3d terrain markers and objectives, I'm pretty stoked about this one.
You can never have enough 3d board swag!
In the KS comments, Jamie said:
"Concerning the retail box: The retail box is equivalent to the barbarian pledge without the stretch goals. Unlocked stretch goals that are not KS exclusives will be released at a later date in seperate retail boxes."
The cheapest price I found for Sedition Wars base set is under $20 plus shipping at White Dragon Enterprises. 50 mini's and 50 sf bases. Buy multiples!
OTOH, I haven't found any discounts as good as SW. I think it's an exception. I *have* seen holiday sales for Robotech RPG and Mars Attacks at 50% off. Arcadia Quest and other games are 40% to 30% off. Heck, Imperial Assault's 30% off!
As for Conan, the plastic is high quality like the Others. You can, of course, find not-Conan barbarian metals easily, although for other Conan mythos characters other than Red Sonja, I don't know.
If you're a Robert E. Howard Conan fan, sure, back it. If you're looking for value, it's about $1 per miniature. If you just want the base set, wait for until the end of next year.
Do you think they'll keep the same quantities of figures for retail? I don't think we've seen a game of this type with that many figures retail at 100.
Stuff like Descent, Myth, and the like have about half as many.
It'll be interesting to see what retail looks like vs the final tally at the end of the kickstarter.
After having heard mention of 3d terrain markers and objectives, I'm pretty stoked about this one.
You can never have enough 3d board swag!
In the KS comments, Jamie said:
"Concerning the retail box: The retail box is equivalent to the barbarian pledge without the stretch goals. Unlocked stretch goals that are not KS exclusives will be released at a later date in seperate retail boxes."
Yep, in that case I'll be passing. There's a few models in that big pile I'd quite like(I think, you have to squint pretty hard to see most of it since they only included bigger images for a selection of the models), but most of it is stuff I just have no use for particularly with all the repeats(repeats are fine for boardgames or mass battle wargames, but they look like arse for warband to small-army level skirmish which is what I prefer to play), and the exclusives don't grab me enough to justify the cost. Better to get it discounted at retail, or hope someone splits their box and I can pick up the stuff I want off ebay.
Bugger, forgot this was starting today and missed the EB..
Really stoked about this, minis so far look great but the biggest thing for me is the license, and they've obviously got some really talented designers involved (not least Adrian Smith).
This is on the verge of prompting a new avatar pic!
Sinful Hero wrote: Hmm, well I suppose I'll be waiting for retail then. Seems pretty steep for PVC models IMO after adding in shipping.
It's already almost at a $1/model
Once the last stretch goal is hit at $250K, the King pledge will be sitting at 126 minis for $135. PVC or not, thats still pretty dang good, and it should only get better as they reveal more stretch goals.
Of course, don't forget to add shipping to that. It's currently at $150 for those minis, if the unlocked stretch goals haven't already driven the total up. I'm planning on waiting for a good sale at retail(maybe around Black Friday), and picking it up if I'm still interested without worrying about unknown shipping charges. Doesn't Sedition Wars(another PVC board game) routinely get discounted to $25?
Sucker! If you waited another month or two you could have bought it from a charity shop for $15.
Think you either want this game or not, and if you're really thinking about waiting for a year to go on sale then that's probably a 'no'
Alpharius wrote: A lot of this stuff looks to be 'Kickstarter Exclusive" - that might limit the 'wait for retail' approach.
Though admittedly, if I had waited for retail of Sedition Wars I'd have been WAY happier...
Seems like Sedition Wars is a legendary tale of cation.
It was pretty much the first game like it on KS using restic, so there's obviously been a lot of learning and growth since then.
I realize it's fun to pile on the hate to Sedition Wars, but I think it's important to keep that fact in mind. Everything that's been put out in the two years since SHOULD be better.
Pacific wrote: Bugger, forgot this was starting today and missed the EB..
Really stoked about this, minis so far look great but the biggest thing for me is the license, and they've obviously got some really talented designers involved (not least Adrian Smith).
This is on the verge of prompting a new avatar pic!
Sinful Hero wrote: Hmm, well I suppose I'll be waiting for retail then. Seems pretty steep for PVC models IMO after adding in shipping.
It's already almost at a $1/model
Once the last stretch goal is hit at $250K, the King pledge will be sitting at 126 minis for $135. PVC or not, thats still pretty dang good, and it should only get better as they reveal more stretch goals.
Of course, don't forget to add shipping to that. It's currently at $150 for those minis, if the unlocked stretch goals haven't already driven the total up. I'm planning on waiting for a good sale at retail(maybe around Black Friday), and picking it up if I'm still interested without worrying about unknown shipping charges. Doesn't Sedition Wars(another PVC board game) routinely get discounted to $25?
Sucker! If you waited another month or two you could have bought it from a charity shop for $15.
Think you either want this game or not, and if you're really thinking about waiting for a year to go on sale then that's probably a 'no'
Yeah, about the only thing I'm really interested in are the Hyenas, and that's quite a steep price to pay for something I'll maybe use once in a RPG session that I'll probably never have. :(
Do you think they'll keep the same quantities of figures for retail? I don't think we've seen a game of this type with that many figures retail at 100.
So... I think I like what they've shown of the rules. Like how the amount of actions the characters can take is tied to their stamina, which is in turn tied to their health. I need to watch the full gameplay still, but so far I like how the game seems to play.
cincydooley wrote: So... I think I like what they've shown of the rules. Like how the amount of actions the characters can take is tied to their stamina, which is in turn tied to their health. I need to watch the full gameplay still, but so far I like how the game seems to play.
I watched the Tric Trac game and that was very informative. Looks like a fun game. And yes, my will was weak, I pledged just now...
As a game it looks ok, but the miniatures are kind of unimpressive considering the talent of the sculptors they hired.
Zelata looks more like a statue than a human.
Skuthus looks more like Dhalsim than a necromancer
Lots of the poses are just weak
And some of the stuff looks realistic while other stuff the scale is way off like the axes these pirates are dual wielding which are much bigger than what the skeletons are two handing..:
I got an EB slot so I'm sure it will be a good value overall, but the sculptors attached to the game had my hopes a lot higher than what many of the sculpts live up to.
Alpharius wrote: A lot of this stuff looks to be 'Kickstarter Exclusive" - that might limit the 'wait for retail' approach.
Though admittedly, if I had waited for retail of Sedition Wars I'd have been WAY happier...
Seems like Sedition Wars is a legendary tale of cation.
It was pretty much the first game like it on KS using restic, so there's obviously been a lot of learning and growth since then.
I realize it's fun to pile on the hate to Sedition Wars, but I think it's important to keep that fact in mind. Everything that's been put out in the two years since SHOULD be better.
Until I see pvc minis that is easy to clean up I will always look down on it.
Sedition wars was not so much an issue of detail quality, they were nice, not great but solid. It was jut painful to clean them up, same with mantic's PVC or Soda Pop's.
I would rather spend mot of my time painting and not scraping and slicing. At a million dollar kickstarter and Having put it roughly 500 dollars on that kickstarter, taking jabs at it is not fun, but a constant sad reminder of how terrible PVC if you are buying them for the hobby aspect.
For board pieces sure, but many people did not buy into that kicktarter for a "board game"
Buy a box of DUST minis if you want to check it out because I believed they will be produced in the same factory. Grab some of the german apes, they have both furry and mechanical bits.
fattdex wrote: Buy a box of DUST minis if you want to check it out because I believed they will be produced in the same factory. Grab some of the german apes, they have both furry and mechanical bits.
Which is, coincidentally, also the factory I believe all the CMoN minis are being produced at now.
A few more stretch goals were announced a few hours ago
So far we're at 25 free alt-sculpt minions, 1 new hero, 1 new villain and whatever Man-Ape is; plus some extra dice. Not too shabby for day 1.
They have also confirmed in one of the comments that the stretch goals all come with additional scenarios, but have yet to say what that actually means.
Another comment from the creators has gone into a bit of detail about the exclusivity of the sculpts too. The KS exclusive minion sculpts will be just that; however, the alt-sculpts that we're seeing in the goals will be available to buy after the campaign in box sets.
Latest update says the alternate sculpts will also have their own tiles -- in other words, they're not just alternate art!
"Cheap cultural reference aside I should mention that a lot of the alternate sculpts come with alternate tiles that allow them to represent special units instead of just standard minions. These guys for example are the pict "warriors" that some of you may of seen/heard of. Their special ability is block, a skill that stops heros in the same zone as them from moving. A usefull trick if you need to buy yourself some time."
Regarding the plastic: "@Pierre: Someone has already beaten me to this but just to confirm; we will be using high quality PVC with results similar to Dust: Tactics, The Others & Journey: Wrath of Demons."
Regarding the "all SG come with their own scenario" comment, I'm assuming this only applies to Heroes, Villains, Monsters and Maps, right? Or do we really get scenarios for alt-sculpt goons, dice and chests?
I'm torn on this one. I like the stylistic direction, but the execution leaves some models a bit lacking in detail or overall aesthetic. I love Conan so I guess I'll wait and see.
I realise that this isn't a very "Dakka-esque" statement to make, but the likelihood of me painting all of the mooks is low (particularly as stretch goals pile up!), so I'm less concerned about them being pretty. Frankly some of the base Zombicide zombies were pretty lacking - but you were only looking at them en masse, so it didn't really matter.
I am happy with a greater proportion of the heroes & particularly the big chunky monsters! The biggest flaw so far is the lack of consistency between humans - it doesn't come across as "exaggerated fantasy", more "completely different artists".
Normally I'd be with you there Bioptic. I like painting up boardgames but it's not necessary, and there is a lot of add ons. I just think that with all the incredible artistic talent behind this project I wish there was a little more, as you point out, consistency.
Bioptic wrote: I realise that this isn't a very "Dakka-esque" statement to make, but the likelihood of me painting all of the mooks is low (particularly as stretch goals pile up!), so I'm less concerned about them being pretty.
We destroyed the Dakka Hive Mind Gestalt Being Overmind about 5 or 6 years ago, so that is, in fact, very much a "Dakka-esque" thing to say.
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion now still!
And for what's its worth, I'm coming around to the 'boardgame' side of things here too, but still hopeful that the miniatures will look really nice.
And for what's its worth, I'm coming around to the 'boardgame' side of things here too, but still hopeful that the miniatures will look really nice.
And, frankly, even with the miniatures being "boardgame quality" (and I think it's an almost unfair statement to make these days because the quality is so far and above what it used to be only 3-5 years ago), I still think there's going to be plenty of detail and sculpt quality for average painters (and lets be honest, thats what the majority of dakka consists of) to get good results, while good to exceptional painters have proven time and again they can get exceptional quality from this style of miniature.
I was hoping to resist this one, but right out of the gate it was too good of a deal. Over a 100 minis before any stretch goals, and there was a game too?
In the first 24 hours, we (us U.S. backers anyway) nearly crossed the $1 per figure threshold of "totally incapable of resisting this project". I'm in.
I'm just disappointed in some of the miniatures relative to the talent they have. I also don't completely understand what style or scale they are going for. For example, the weapons of the Picts are "realistic" in proportion to their size and strength for two handed hammers:
Then you have the pirates who appear to be dual wielding 2 handed weapons that are as big as their bodies:
Then Skeletons using 2 handed axes that are to scale for a wood chopping axe:
Then Pallantides one handed sword being the size of his body.
I prefer the more realistic scale weapons, but the other can work. I'm not a fan of mixing the two scales though.
I wonder if this sculpt they previewed back in March is still going to make it in, presumably as a stretch goal at some point:
Spoiler:
It is much closer to the quality I was hoping for on all the miniatures.
Likewise the archer looks great:
as does this other previewed Conan sculpt:
In fact other than Zelata I like most of the core and deluxe models that we have seen up close enough to make a fair judgement on, I just wish the weapon scale on some of them was more realistic or if the one handers are going to be the size of the miniature's bodies, then likewise enhance the 2 handers to monster size.
..... Yes, those will make it in. Why would they bother paying for the sculpts to be made if they were not actually going in to the campaign. They do not want to dangle those carrots before the funding encourages it.
I'm sure they will be sold at some point, I just don't know if they will be add ons or stretch goals. That will make for 3 additional sculpts of just Conan that have to be unlocked when you include this one:
Ok, so the extra Skeletons and the new board are done and dusted, as is the next stretch goal of another character, Olgerd
Up next are some tables and chairs to use in the bar room brawl scenarios. Apparently, yes. You can pick up and use the chairs
We've also got a couple of add-ons. First some extra dice; apparently very useful
And a Brom character pack with alt versions of Conan and Belit, with them at a different stage of their lives. Conan is more sneaky/thief like and Belit is a lot more aggressive. She's now ambidextrous, which means she can use two weapons at the same time and gain the benefits of both. The character boxes come with two models, their character card and, in this case, 5 new pieces of equipment.
Future add-on boxes will apparently be more focused on new villains and heroes/allies
Is it wrong that the thing that will most likely see me backing this Kickstarter is the $450k table and benches stretch goal . I'm not a huge Conan fan, but at that point were looking at 150 minis (counting the chests, cases and tables as minis) for $150 shipped in the USA. A buck a figure and hopefully a decent game, I could go for that.
I'm being tempted to back. I'm still struggling with the fact it's a boardgame, my mind just demands Conan skirmish gaming and sometimes the 5 monoposes briefly disappoint me, and the Picts are too... Neanderthaly for my liking. I'll probably back at the end when I work out exactly In want in terms of add ons and whatnot. I'm hoping for Bossonians and Shemites, though I'm doubt they'd be high priority.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm backing this project now, but seeing how this is a new company with what appears to be their first product I'm alittle nearvous.
The Monolith might be new, but half the owners already own and run another, very successful games company (http://www.studiobombyx.com/) so they have the know-how to run this thing properly
The publisher has published a fair number of games, including painted plastic, although, yes, I haven't found if they've done something like a KS before: https://www.facebook.com/hascoeterwan
I guess I'd rank the publisher above MCG and GEG, but below CMON in getting stuff out?
And take a close look at the pic at the top of the page!
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm backing this project now, but seeing how this is a new company with what appears to be their first product I'm alittle nearvous.
Yeah, it's not really new, nor are any of the designers. Lots of experience running this thing.
Is that a thing a grizzled warrior would be doing?
Seems we've also passed the tables and chairs stretch.
By the time we get this and Dungeon Saga, I have a feeling many of our dungeons are going to be well furnished!
Yeah the axe looks funny, I'm hoping it's just an odd angle for taking the picture. Speaking of pictures, I wish they would give us some more close ups of the core set and king pledge figures.
As for the add-ons, the Conan/Belit set seems like it's about $10 more than it should be. I don't even consider them to be very interesting sculpts. I'm more inclined to order these two miniatures as proxies if I want a topless Belit and another Conan, which is cheaper and metal miniatures with more dynamic poses:
Sure you don't get the equipment cards and character sheets, but it's almost guaranteed that pictures of those will be easy to find online to print a copy out for home play with what ever proxies you want.
Is that a thing a grizzled warrior would be doing?
Seems we've also passed the tables and chairs stretch.
By the time we get this and Dungeon Saga, I have a feeling many of our dungeons are going to be well furnished!
Yeah the axe looks funny, I'm hoping it's just an odd angle for taking the picture. Speaking of pictures, I wish they would give us some more close ups of the core set and king pledge figures.
As for the add-ons, the Conan/Belit set seems like it's about $10 more than it should be. I don't even consider them to be very interesting sculpts. I'm more inclined to order these two miniatures as proxies if I want a topless Belit and another Conan, which is cheaper and metal miniatures with more dynamic poses:
Sure you don't get the equipment cards and character sheets, but it's almost guaranteed that pictures of those will be easy to find online to print a copy out for home play with what ever proxies you want.
Quick question Karazax, what do you think would make a set like that worth a $25 price tag?
More interesting/dynamic models, more game materials (more tokens, cards, etc.)?
- Even for high-quality boardgame plastic miniatures, I would not expect them to cost the same as/more than equivalent high-quality wargaming miniatures.
I think that CMON are at the top end of the market for Kickstarters, and charge $5 per model with associated rules, not $12.50. These models are always Kickstarter exclusive, which drives demand up due to perceived resale value.
At £16 for two, these are getting on in price for top-of -the-range hand-cast limited-edition resin miniatures (~£10-15 from Studio Mcvey).
- The models as shown are not particularly exciting pose & sculpt-wise, nor different enough to what is being included in the base pledge. There's not the "I must have THAT" factor, although admittedly I'm not a dyed in the wool Conan fan.
- In general, I'm happier paying a bit more for an actual themed expansion that modifies content/options within the game along a particular direction, and this approach benefits from economies of scale.
I'd much rather pay $50 for a Zombicide expansion + 1 exclusive character than pay $50 for 5 exclusive Zombicide characters.
As has been mentioned, we're now past the tables and onto the new stretches
And a new add-on. It has already been pointed out that the graphic is wrong as it should not be a free model if it costs $10
They also provided some additional rules for the tables/chairs:
"Standing on a table gives you a bonus in combat and smashing a stool on the head of your opponent gives you a yellow bonus dice too!"
I'm interested to see the Sabretooth has two tiles. I'm wondering if this is so you can have two tiles on the track at the same time, so you can potentially activate him twice in a turn at a more reasonable cost than if you tried to do the same with another unit?
I agree with Bioptic quite a bit. $25 for the expansion feels really high, especially when you look at a CMoN artist box that goes for $20, contains 6 unique sculpts, character sheets for all the models, and (albeit small) plastic tracking markers.
Bioptic wrote: I'm (rudely) also going to answer that question:
- Even for high-quality boardgame plastic miniatures, I would not expect them to cost the same as/more than equivalent high-quality wargaming miniatures.
I think that CMON are at the top end of the market for Kickstarters, and charge $5 per model with associated rules, not $12.50. These models are always Kickstarter exclusive, which drives demand up due to perceived resale value.
At £16 for two, these are getting on in price for top-of -the-range hand-cast limited-edition resin miniatures (~£10-15 from Studio Mcvey).
- The models as shown are not particularly exciting pose & sculpt-wise, nor different enough to what is being included in the base pledge. There's not the "I must have THAT" factor, although admittedly I'm not a dyed in the wool Conan fan.
- In general, I'm happier paying a bit more for an actual themed expansion that modifies content/options within the game along a particular direction, and this approach benefits from economies of scale.
I'd much rather pay $50 for a Zombicide expansion + 1 exclusive character than pay $50 for 5 exclusive Zombicide characters.
No, that pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Look at Malifaux online retailer price for a starter set at ~$30 you can get 6 highly dynamic and detailed miniatures with stat cards and upgrades and they will be delivered within a week, not waiting for who knows how long on a kickstarter which inevitably is going to be delayed. If the two miniatures I posted as possible proxies were what they were offering for $25 I would be very tempted. Considering those two sculpts cost about that much at retail, or slightly less at online dealer prices and they are much more detailed and interesting poses to me.
It's interesting that the "free" sabertooth tiger costs $10:
( I imagine the image will eventually be edited or removed, but it currently shows "add on: one free sabertooth tiger" which suggests that perhaps it was a stretch goal they changed to an add on. This one will be kickstarter exclusive sculpt, but a different sabertooth tiger will be availabe at retail. It's a pretty good looking model, not a lot of sabertooth tiger proxies out there to choose from. At $5 I would be tempted, but I'm not a completionist who has to have everything. It would have been a more exciting stretch goal than more versions of mummies or skeletons though.
So what y'all are saying is that for a similar type of game expansion to provide good value, there would need to be some combination of:
Higher quality miniatures
Better game content
Lower price
I guess an example might be:
FFG X-Wing ship expansions (large base ships $30; small base ships $15; better miniatures; pre-painted; more game content)
What kind of game content do you think would add additional value?
The FFG ship expansions typically include several ways to use the model in the game as well as new abilities/upgrades that can be applied to other products. And of course every ship comes with an assortment of necessary game components.
Do you think those components add value to the product, even if they are necessary to use the product in the game? In other words, does the fact that the game itself requires lots of components aside from the miniature inherently add value to the product?
The value is also contrasted against what you are getting for "free" from stretch goals. Paying $25 for 2 alternate versions of characters you already have when you are getting so many miniatures included in the base or king price has to really wow me to tempt me to pick them up. I think the CMON kickstarter game add-ons are generally fair. A decent amount of high quality sculpts at a fair price, often exclusive too if you wanted to resell them and with the rules included, and for example Rum and Bones addon was typically like 3 exclusive sculpts for $15.
On a different note, here is an updated list of everything you get from base and king with stretch goals so far:
I think the FFG Single ships are an acceptable price point considering what's included in them. Solid pre-paints, usually 10ish upgrade cards, 4-6 pilot cards, and two 'mini sprues" of cardboard seem good at that price.
By comparison, one of the Descent single figure Lieutenant packs has an MSRP of $10, with a similar amount of paper product. I tend to think FFG has a pretty solid pricing structure, so I think for one fig, with other content, $10 is pretty approachable, with it scaling down as more is included (for example, a 2 model Lt pack for Descent is MSRP $14).
With that in mind, I think the CMoN pricepoint is pretty solid as well. A single survivor pack is $10 for 2 models with the character sheet, and I think that's a reasonable price. As we noted before, the 6 figure Mustache packs are $25 for 6 models and paper, and while I'd like it better at $20 because I'm cheap, $25 doesn't feel too off for the content.
Now, I know the argument is going to be made somewhere that all those prices are high, but I think if one looks at it pragmatically, with some common sense understanding of the costs associated with sculpting and tooling a plastic mini, that they're fairly appropriate.
Ideally, with the content listed, I'd be much more comfortable with the Conan expansions at $15. $25 just seems way too high for what you're getting.
Do you think those components add value to the product, even if they are necessary to use the product in the game? In other words, does the fact that the game itself requires lots of components aside from the miniature inherently add value to the product?
Well, it adds to the substance of the product, which in turn makes the price tag easier to swallow. Just like I accept a miniature from a miniature game will likely cost more than a Reaper figure, because the cost of developing the additional rules/playtesting has to be paid somehow and it probably includes a stat card, which requires artwork, printing, etc. Tokens and stuff don't magically appear from thin air either.
Uno only requires a card deck to play. Should I ignore the fact that zombicide requires cards, dice, tokens, etc when trying to figure out why it costs more to buy Zombicide than Uno?
All that said, $25 for this add on seems a tiny bit pricey, but hey, boobs sell. At most its overcosted by $5 compared to similar game expansions, which seem to run around $10 for a new character option (Zombicide was $20 for 2 during the campaign, Star Wars Imperial Assault is $10 for solos,
Su[per Dungeon Explore is $13, Arcadia Quest $13, etc).
They could take a page from Soda Pop and add more content to the $25 later on down the line. Turn it into more of a mini expansion perhaps?
Soda Pop started tossing in extra figures with certain add ons without changing the original prices. Off the top of my head, the extra tile sets got bonus creep figures, as did the Totoro style boss monster who ended up getting a minion bundle included with him.
Maybe if they toss in a bonus ally, or some 3d goodies...? I don't know what would work. I just don't feel those two are worth it yet.
If they toss any freebies in I want more tables and benches . For some reason I just want to fill a large room with tables and chairs, the heroes possibly a few of the big bad monsters, scream "food fight" and have them just fight each other till they drop. Bar room brawl done Conan style.
I too believe the $25 price tag is overdone for unpainted/unaccompanied models. If they came with rules for an adventure exclusive to them (till someone posts it on the net) then I might feel different about it.
$25 is for the brand name: BROM. Although, apparently, his name isn't worth $25 anymore (and he's not the sculptor, anyway). I have his Buttonmen art. Nice art, actually.
Here's the clarification on the sculpt:
Jamie@Monolith.
Ok guys, well, I've made it to Belfast despite the winds making it quite a challenge for the pilot to land the plane!
I just wanted to address a few points whilst I have the signal. Sorry I can't respond to individual questions at the moment but it's pretty hard on a phone!
First of all: the "free" on the add-on is indeed a typo. The sabre-toothed tiger was meant to be a SG and we were going to release another add-on beastie tonight however there's been a bit of a delay with the sculpt and we'd rather show you finished stuff where we can so we swapped them round. So to reiterate: the saber-toothed tiger is indeed an optional purchase, not free
Secondly, concerning the scenarios. I really do apologise personally for this one as it's due to a misunderstanding between myself and the design team: there will not be one additional scenario PER add-on model as I said earlier. Instead, all the models will be usable in at least one or two scenarios, spread across the different boards that we've unlocked and have yet to unlock. Now Fred wants to reassure you that there will be plenty of scenarios, enough to keep you busy for quite some time but not to the point of one per SG. Once again, my apologies for this misunderstanding.
Finally: some of you have highlighted the fact that the barbarian pledge is quickly outstripping the king pledge in terms of "value". Now if this sort of thing is your bag and the exclusive models aren't that big of a deal to you then I am here to reassure you that we foresaw this issue and we've got you covered. So a word to the wise, don't get rid of your king pledge just yet
The pose of how the axe is held bothers be a great deal. It isn't possible to swing a weapon with the knuckles turned like that. If you want to swing a two-handed axe, the knuckles must point in the same direction. This particular figure is really bad in my opionion, and isn't expected knowing that some of the top sculptors have been working with this project.
So King pledges may get even more stuff on top of what the bonuses they already get?
I have no problem whatsoever with that!
EDIT- an King backers now get a pile of 6 extra dice... BECAUSE!
However, what I think is missing from making this game complete are some barrels. We need barrels. A fantasy game can never have enough barrels. Barrels of all shapes and sizes. Barrels for ale, barrels for fish, barrels for barrels... I remember an old PSX game where there was a character obsessed with barrels. I think it was Star Ocean 2, and the dude who had twin dragons possess him...
Free stuff is great, and I have an early bird King pledge so it's already a more than fair value for me. That being said extra dice don't excite me in any way, and if I was considering dropping down to the base pledge because it's a better value of dollar per miniature, more dice wouldn't change my mind in any way.
Alex C wrote: Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.
It is easy to fix, but still disappointing that they have that many talented sculptors and would release something like that or the zelata sculpt which I am not a fan of at all. It's also slightly worrying because lots of the core and king pledge models have only been shown at a way zoomed out "this is everything you get" view which makes it hard to see exactly what type of quality you are getting. I'd like some close ups of all the core set and king pledge models.
Karazax wrote: Free stuff is great, and I have an early bird King pledge so it's already a more than fair value for me. That being said extra dice don't excite me in any way, and if I was considering dropping down to the base pledge because it's a better value of dollar per miniature, more dice wouldn't change my mind in any way.
Alex C wrote: Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.
It is easy to fix, but still disappointing that they have that many talented sculptors and would release something like that or the zelata sculpt which I am not a fan of at all. It's also slightly worrying because lots of the core and king pledge models have only been shown at a way zoomed out "this is everything you get" view which makes it hard to see exactly what type of quality you are getting. I'd like some close ups of all the core set and king pledge models.
Have no fear! Be rest assured they will all be "high quality plastic" miniatures.
Alex C wrote: Very simple to swap the orientation of the axe head if it bothers anyone.
While the axe-head is easy to swap, this isn't what bothers me. It is how he holds the weapon in his hands. The knuckles are turned towards each other. Try to place your hands on top of each other (like if you hold a weapon) with your right knuckles pointing left and your left knuckles pointing right, and then try to see if it feels natural to make a swinging moition with the hands placed like that. Then try the same thing, but hold the knuckles so that they point both the same way and see if you can make a swinging motion like that. It's things like that that ruins the entire figure for me, and it's unfortunate that the sculptor haven't researched something as common as that.
But this is just one detail out of many figures, so lets not get bogged down over just one!
The Necromancer looks MUCH better than the kickstarter image, which makes him look like Dhalsim from Street fighter
Spoiler:
vs
More Pict warriors and archers:
Spoiler:
N'Gora
Spoiler:
PALLANTIDES AND GUARD
Spoiler:
These sculpts are amazing and if the final miniatures look closer to them then they really need to post some better pictures than what they currently have for most of those models. I really want to see close ups and different angles for all the models released so far, as this was much closer to the quality I hoped for with the talent of the sculptors working on the game.
(these will have been scanned in to turn them into digital files, then the scanned imaged tidied up/fixed in order to work with their mould cutting requirements in terms of degrees of overhang and filling in gaps)
I'm sure that's why the greens are not on show on the KS page so as to not overpromise on detail (which I think is a good thing)
There was a post a while back saying that the original sculpts were over exaggerated so that when the plastics shrink slightly they won't lose all the detail.
....well the production process I have been informed of from Dust studio is that the original is either cast in or covered by a ceramic medium which is then used to create the metal tool..... I am assuming the ceramic is able to withstand the incredible heat of molten metal and the metal is poured over it before being cut into blocks. Details are bound to be lost in that process, it is just a fact of reality.
I totally agree about the sculpting done by Stephane Simon. If these were cast in resin, I would for sure pick up several of them. But the picture for the Conan game don't look that interesting, which is a great shame. So I hope they will get around to cast some in resin, too, for painters and collectors.
I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.
Yodhrin wrote: I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.
That is really odd. Are the molds for high quality PVC so much cheaper to make? And I the mold is still good after the kickstarter, why throw it away?
Yodhrin wrote: I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.
If you don't like exclusives, this campaign is a real bummer.
Yodhrin wrote: I'll be interested to see how much stuff gets stuck with the "KS Exclusive" tag before the end of the campaign, you'd hope it would only be a few things here and there, with most of the add-ons and freebies eventually seeing release as a boxed supplement, but so far there's a fair whack that's apparently only ever going to see a single production run before all the effort and talent that went into sculpting them gets thrown away and wasted.
If you don't like exclusives, this campaign is a real bummer.
So far it's not too bad strictly from a selfish POV, since outside of the Mummies very few of the exclusives appeal to me, so I should be able to get the ones I want at retail discount/semi-rational ebay prices later(unless the core pledge gets to the point where there are so many characters I want that all the bumf and duplicate henchmen are essentially "free" at the KS price, in which case I still may go in at the last minute). Still it's getting a bit mental, it seems most of the new character models and monsters are going to end up KS-only.
What I'm really interested in at this point is proper sized pictures of all the models available, you still can't make out half of the contents of the core pledge, which is fine if you're only interested in this as a board game but pretty iffy if you're after the models, makes me worry they're not confident enough about the results of those PVC casts to show them off.
In reality I think some of the pictures they posted of in game are closer than I realized at first.
It's just easier to pick out all the details in the original sculpt and after you do then it's easier to find them in the kickstarter image. The kickstarter image it's hard to tell what the thing on his back is, almost looks like he has a hump back and those are his shoulders extending over his head. But now that I know what I am looking at they look fairly close, just at a different angle for the picture. I really think they need to put up more close up shots of all the miniatures. The details might be much better than the kickstarter's zoomed out pictures allow us to see. I think they would get more additional pledges with quality pictures of what they already have than they will from a few more stretch goals unlocking.
Karazax wrote: In reality I think some of the pictures they posted of in game are closer than I realized at first.
It's just easier to pick out all the details in the original sculpt and after you do then it's easier to find them in the kickstarter image. The kickstarter image it's hard to tell what the thing on his back is, almost looks like he has a hump back and those are his shoulders extending over his head. But now that I know what I am looking at they look fairly close, just at a different angle for the picture. I really think they need to put up more close up shots of all the miniatures. The details might be much better than the kickstarter's zoomed out pictures allow us to see. I think they would get more additional pledges with quality pictures of what they already have than they will from a few more stretch goals unlocking.
One question I have is: what is that a picture of anyway? Is that a production model? Is it a proof? Is it a render?
As a colorblind person myself, I don't much care if the dice are yellow, orange, and red. But that's Kickstarter for you. I'm surprised colorblind sensitivity is the worst thus far.
Alex C wrote: I see the comments section is in it's second day straight of discussing how the dice should be changed to accommodate colorblind gamers.
Kinda hoped we'd be discussing awesome miniatures and beautiful game boards, but apparently not...
How can that even be an issue? You can't play the game solo so unlessall of the players and the overlord are colorblind it wouldn't matter, a noncolorblind player/overlord would just correct the colorblind person if he/she grabbed the wrong dice.
Alex C wrote: I see the comments section is in it's second day straight of discussing how the dice should be changed to accommodate colorblind gamers.
Kinda hoped we'd be discussing awesome miniatures and beautiful game boards, but apparently not...
How can that even be an issue? You can't play the game solo so unlessall of the players and the overlord are colorblind it wouldn't matter, a noncolorblind player/overlord would just correct the colorblind person if he/she grabbed the wrong dice.
A certain person who was quite the troll on the SoBKS has been insisting about every 5 minutes that Monolith needs to redesign their entire aesthetic to allow tables full of colorblind gamers to enjoy the game, even though he's not colorblind himself.
Next he'll be demanding braille dice and/or some sort of machine that reads aloud the card/rulebook text so that gaming groups composed entirely of blind people can play it.
It is worth mentioning that the kickstarter exclusives are all exclusive sculpts, rather than 100% exclusive. They have mentioned that they intend to do different sculpts for these at a later date. I can't remember wher eI read it though
So ,for example, the Skeletons and Mummies in the King box are the KS only versions, but the alt sculpts that were unlocked as stretch goals will be available afterwards so you can still get these. The heroes should (afaik) be getting different sculpts for retail.
And not to be too negative, but I'm really not a fan of that strategy either! It's better than having content locked away forever, but:
- By far the most expensive thing in these sorts of projects is the tooling of new plastic models for mass production. Now the majority of the content has to be tooled twice, and the Kickstarter is only really paying for its own tooling of exclusive stuff.
- The quality of some of the Kickstarter Exclusive sculpts is less than desirable, so backers might end up with the 'lesser' version.
- Completionists have to buy twice the amount!
But I accept that it wouldn't have gotten to half a mil in a few days without those exclusives, and it's their strategy after all. I do hope the heavily cut-down retail version will actually be worth playing though - it's terrible when I can't recommend games I like to friends, because they'd be buying something that costs twice as much with a quarter of the content.
The Kickstarter exclusives will also be available later at conventions they said, so the tools and dies aren't wasted on a one and done run.
As for the King buyers getting lesser quality sculpts, that's also a way to get them back to buy more later. The goal of starting the franchise is not to get anyone to buy everything in the kickstarter and never have more sales from them in the future. The goal should be to generate intrest now and get the initial funding now to cover costs so it becomes just material costs later. The kickstarter exclusives are needed to get people like myself off the fence and throw down the money now.
The thing that's worrying me about this kickstarter (same as many others), is are they over stretching. It's a great value right now, I don't want it to explode so far that quality suffers from trying to produce too quickly, or they take the time to do it correctly but that there's too much and it takes another 6-8 months.
So far counting all the exclusives twice(because they should have alternates later), they're currently at 50 unique figures including all the scenery and big monsters. I don't believe it's at Reaper Bones I levels yet. You just get a ton of the same stuff like archers and such.
So have they said that the alternates fro the exclusives are going to be funded in this KS? If so then aren't they just shooting themselves in the foot by devaluing the exclusives?
I haven't checked out a kicktraqer for other KS in a while, so I decided to see how this was looking. I know they aren't close to being right ever but it's just more fun to watch. This is trending (according to kicktraqer) to hit $3.6 million. I don't think it will get close to that but I'm guessing it'll be over a million easy. I just hope there's more sculpts and content to extend it to that without causing delays.
Theophony wrote: I haven't checked out a kicktraqer for other KS in a while, so I decided to see how this was looking. I know they aren't close to being right ever but it's just more fun to watch. This is trending (according to kicktraqer) to hit $3.6 million. I don't think it will get close to that but I'm guessing it'll be over a million easy. I just hope there's more sculpts and content to extend it to that without causing delays.
Plus giant spider is sweet.
If you've been following Kicktraq since the project launched, you'd have seen the trending amount dropping. I think it will drop further as pledges taper off over a longer period, which is pretty typical in most projects.
In fact, if you compare the first few days of Conan with the the first few days of Zombicide Season 3, there's already a marked difference, despite having a very similar first day.
ZS3 started at 500K, and went to 1M by day 2. Conan started at 250K and has yet to reach 1M. The trend line is also markedly more shallow than ZS3 thus far. Conan doesn't seem to have the same kind of drive as ZS3, which had a more gentle drop off in pledge dollars per day.
Doesn't Kicktraq just take the average per day and then multiply that by how many days are left and then add that to the current total?
So, yeah, not that good of a predictor really!
Their other 'experimental' projections are slightly better, but all struggle with the reality of a last day surge - or if there will be a last day surge.
I don't think comparing Conan to Z3 (one of the most successful KS boardgame projects, if not THE most successful) is too fair...
But Conan actually does compare pretty well to other million dollar earners. Compare to:
Dwarf Kings Quest (which earned $1.06 million)
Deadzone ($1.2 million)
Forgotten King ($1.51 million)
And this project is doing great. What's crazy is that we're at less than 80 cents a figure, and we get a game. I too hope they don't overextend themselves and get crushed from a final 48-hour pledge rush with too many stretch goals.
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS is there a thread that explains how I could have linked those images into this thread as images, instead of links? Sorry for the newbie question...
Edit: Updated with images. Thanks Orlandothe, for the tip.
I'm actually optimistic about this one being on time as they have at least shown models with each picture/stretch goal.
There's no point in comparing this to ZS3. This is not the third installment in a series, it doesn't give people the option to buy the previous game/s along with it.
I'd really love to see a kickstarter that goes berserk say "okay guys, too much, were stopping HERE! No more stretch goals as we want to get this out on schedule. We'll start a second KS for this next month with a delivery date of XXXX for those who haven't pledged yet." The closest I've seen was creature caster, who said to the extent "I'm only doing X many items so I can be on time because that is paramount" he stuck to it, but is still late .
Theophony wrote: I'd really love to see a kickstarter that goes berserk say "okay guys, too much, were stopping HERE! No more stretch goals as we want to get this out on schedule. We'll start a second KS for this next month with a delivery date of XXXX for those who haven't pledged yet." The closest I've seen was creature caster, who said to the extent "I'm only doing X many items so I can be on time because that is paramount" he stuck to it, but is still late .
Only one I know of is Forgotten Kings. The latter SG's were pretty much fillers (eg. coloring book, box).
Only KS's I backed which arrived early were Dwarven Forge, MegaMiniatures, and Dark Sword Miniatures. Latter two were metals (and had sculpts made), so the creators could start the project before funding ended.
Still not a fan of Olgerd's stance, but here's a barbarian swinging his axe with the blade facing "behind" him. Note the much more dynamic pose suggesting the arc of the axe.
Since this miniature is metal, perhaps Olgerd's stance reflects the limitations of single-piece plastic models?
Constantius is in, next up is ANOTHER Belit figure, I think it looks good, can't bring picture over right now. Also to note the stretch goals are getting further apart. I think we are beginning to get close to their max out point. The first stretch goals were $25K apart, the last few have been $30K apart this next one is $35K away.
I'd really love to see a kickstarter that goes berserk say "okay guys, too much, were stopping HERE! No more stretch goals as we want to get this out on schedule. We'll start a second KS for this next month with a delivery date of XXXX for those who haven't pledged yet." The closest I've seen was creature caster, who said to the extent "I'm only doing X many items so I can be on time because that is paramount" he stuck to it, but is still late .
Basius 2 essentially did that. They had the initial set of base molds as goals, and once they reached them, no more were added to unlock. The did have a final stretch goal which helped subsidize shipping with the extra money that would have gone towards mold making, which was nice.
Daft question which is ominously missing from the KS page .....anyone know what the minis are made of - sprue less plastic, hard plastic, ready assembled like zombicide..... .?
TwilightSparkles wrote:Daft question which is ominously missing from the KS page .....anyone know what the minis are made of - sprue less plastic, hard plastic, ready assembled like zombicide..... .?
As Alpharius said, and despite what the main kickstarter page says it will be PVC like Sedition Wars and Relic Knights. Apparently they have fixed all the problems with the material. Not sure if it will be preassembled.
corgan wrote: After the Beasts of War video, I wait to see some comments on the PVC models they showed, regarding Conan game and in general.
If the Conan figures look as good as the examples in the BoW video I'll be very happy. He alluded to possibly having some Conan figures before the campaign is over. That would go a long way to increasing my confidence.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Daft question which is ominously missing from the KS page .....anyone know what the minis are made of - sprue less plastic, hard plastic, ready assembled like zombicide..... .?
Cheers, had enough of that material so saves me some money, I'd rank dealing with that stuff as the most painful hobby experience ever. Guess that explains why so much is being offered.
As Alpharius said, and despite what the main kickstarter page says it will be PVC like Sedition Wars and Relic Knights. Apparently they have fixed all the problems with the material. Not sure if it will be preassembled.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: so the best guide is the factory making them and what they've done before (in this case we've been told it's the place doing Dust)
Yep, they are also doing the current Zombicide Season 3 and Journey models, which are supposed to be much crisper than previous editions. So in terms of material, I'm happy with it
The new Belit is rather awesome and perfectly befits the image I have always had in my head of her. Well done there Monolith.
I am scratchign my head at the swamp spirit. Looks liek agreat concept btu I am wondering how they will get all of those gapped spaces between the tendrils and branches without the sculpt being cut into a lot of pieces, btu I suppose that si a question for the sculptor who makes the thing.
If there were a pledge just for Belit and the Art book I woudl be in for those in a hear beat. I may be critical of the " feel " of the art work in so far as hwo it fits REH's Conan, bu tthe quality of the art is fantastic.
even though I have been critical of the project thus far in some regards I woudl also caution to say that there is not really a " special formula " for great PVC in so much as you have different operators working the process with different degrees of care and expertise. Everythign I have ever heard about Dust studios is great. I have exchanged emails with Paolo Parente on the subject of an RBG line of plastics and he seemed to have a very hands on kind fo mentality which i think goes a LONG way for the product he produces.
There are certain immutable limitations of plastic manufacturing but if you are goign to produce in plastics I think, based on what I have learned in my own research, Dust Studios is where to have it done well.
As far as the limitations of plastic production to illustrate what I am gettign at I think that the Belit sculpt and sculpts like the Picts and the early Conan, the Man ape, the Saber toother tiger, Shevas, will come through and look damned good, while other sculpts that have the detail just packed on will suffer from a bit more of those details kind fo " melting " together. Not that they actually melt together but that plastic production tends to round the edges of everything. The more edges there are together the more " melted " those details will appear because yo uare lookign at more of it together.
Tre, have a look at the Journey miniatures in the video above. These have masses of detail and have come out beautifully. These are apparently made using the same process and material as the Conan range
Campaign book is interesting, though I would prefer an expansion with the book, maybe a map and some figures for the expansion, even if the price was more.
Oh yeh I know the Journey miniatrues are amazing. Perhaps the Wrath of Kings miniatures will be the tell tale product for PVC. The models are detailed and dynamic and cast in PVC.
Karazax wrote: Campaign book is interesting, though I would prefer an expansion with the book, maybe a map and some figures for the expansion, even if the price was more.
Should be getting exactly that today or tomorrow as an add-on.
Really getting excited about this. I still haven't pledged yet, but my brother in law will be coming over in a little while and if he is interested in it then I'm going for the king pledge and all add ons. With the deal on figs I'm thinking of actually doing 2 king pledges .
What will really sink me is if they allow us to buy extras of the swamp demon or any of the models for that matter. I really like the look of it and the man-ape.
endtransmission wrote: Tre, have a look at the Journey miniatures in the video above. These have masses of detail and have come out beautifully. These are apparently made using the same process and material as the Conan range
They're also much bigger than the normal human models in Conan will be. The one Dust soldier they showed in the BoW video doesn't really tell us much, since you can't tell if it looks that way because it was designed to or because of the manufacturing process.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely coming around as the campaign goes on...but I want to see a basic, 32mm human model from this campaign, one of the ones with substantial amounts of detail, in the final material before I'm likely to pledge.
Alex C wrote: Z3, Dust, The Others and Journey are all FANTASTIC quality and are from the same place that will be doing the Conan figures.
I have no doubt they will be nice.
Not sure if Dust has shipped yet, but none of the other three have, so none of us know what the actual in-hand quality will be like. Sedition Wars looked lovely in pictures, too.
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tre manor wrote: Oh yeh I know the Journey miniatrues are amazing. Perhaps the Wrath of Kings miniatures will be the tell tale product for PVC. The models are detailed and dynamic and cast in PVC.
The Journey Miniatures are also twice the size of traditional 28mm figures. Their regular bull-headed guys will make for comfortable large Minotaurs in other games.
Only one figure from the Others has been cast in plastic thus far and that is the pride figure......which is huge and cut into multiple pieces and still shows significant mold lines and slight gaps at the part joins.
tre manor wrote: Only one figure from the Others has been cast in plastic thus far and that is the pride figure......which is huge and cut into multiple pieces and still shows significant mold lines and slight gaps at the part joins.
I think "significant mould lines" is a significant overstatement.
tre manor wrote: Only one figure from the Others has been cast in plastic thus far and that is the pride figure......which is huge and cut into multiple pieces and still shows significant mold lines and slight gaps at the part joins.
That's a little worrying. Was it cast at the same place as Dust Tactics?
tre manor wrote: Only one figure from the Others has been cast in plastic thus far and that is the pride figure......which is huge and cut into multiple pieces and still shows significant mold lines and slight gaps at the part joins.
That's a little worrying. Was it cast at the same place as Dust Tactics?
I'm sorry, but as I said before, that simply isn't true. "Significant mold lines" is gross hyperbole. I'm holding the model in my hand right now. Both Dave C and I have uploaded photos.
tre manor wrote: Only one figure from the Others has been cast in plastic thus far and that is the pride figure......which is huge and cut into multiple pieces and still shows significant mold lines and slight gaps at the part joins.
These are the only pics I've seen from "the others", I see mold lines, but nothing even I couldn't fix. Spoilered so as not to hijack this thread with models from another thread.
Karazax wrote: Campaign book is interesting, though I would prefer an expansion with the book, maybe a map and some figures for the expansion, even if the price was more.
Should be getting exactly that today or tomorrow as an add-on.
Interesting, but that brings a new question. If the campaign book is designed to be used with these new miniatures and/or map(s), how much value does it have without them? Or is this a completely different campaign book with maps and miniatures? What's the play testing on this stuff? The more things they add the more stuff there is to test. Especially in a campaign where the sides progress in strength. The game being in production for 2 years sounds impressive, but the more new stuff you add the more testing that is required to balance it. Then if you then are splitting your testing between base rules and campaign rules, and scenario testing increases from 8 scenarios to 27+ scenarios, that's even more variables. We aren't even thru the first week of the kickstarter yet, so lots more is going to be added.
The other thing I wonder about is exclusive sculpts like Baal Pteor. How many scenarios can you use this exclusive sculpt in? My understanding is that each scenario has set lists for the evil side, not choose your own army. So being that Baal Pteor is a kickstarter exclusive, how many scenarios can he possibly be in? There will be no additional demand for scenarios featuring him once the game goes retail. If you just like the sculpt, $10 might be OK, but if you want him for the gameplay, $10 for a guy who might only be in one scenario and isn't likely to be in any future scenarios seems steep.
Well Cincy what I saw had clearly visible lines where the tool parted. It could well be we are willing to judge the same product by two different standards.
tre manor wrote: Well Cincy what I saw had clearly visible lines where the tool parted. It could well be we are willing to judge the same product by two different standards.
There's no standard difference that we're judging by.
I've got it in my hand. Right now. I'm telling you you're wrong, and that the use of the word "significant" is absolutely wrong by any definition of the word. But, as you clearly implied, my untrained eye must operate on a "different standard."
I get that you don't like PVC, and that's fine. But your rhetoric in any KS thread using it is, quite frankly, getting tiring, because more often than not it sounds like you have an axe to grind against any KS that doesn't run their project and production to the way you seem fit. First it's Early Birds. Now it's the material, which, while I respect your valuable input as a member of the industry, you simply haven't worked. And this isn't the first KS thread you've jumped in to tell us how they're doing it wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, and you're just trying to offer us, the consumer, some valuable insight about which KS projects we should back and why. But because you've run projects that have been less successful than the ones you're critiquing, it does occasionally come off as sour grapes.
I own the new Dust Op Babylon miniatures and they are impressive and have no complaints. They have improved from the other Dust tactics miniatures in detail and texture. The first I guess you could say generation Axis and other groups were soft and the the details such as the face often were merged and lacking. The new Axis and SSU are stiffer more crisp and detailed.
Ernster wrote: I own the new Dust Op Babylon miniatures and they are impressive and have no complaints. They have improved from the other Dust tactics miniatures in detail and texture. The first I guess you could say generation Axis and other groups were soft and the the details such as the face often were merged and lacking. The new Axis and SSU are stiffer more crisp and detailed.
People keep saying this, but I still haven't seen any actual high res pictures of the new Dust stuff. Could you oblige?
Karazax wrote: Campaign book is interesting, though I would prefer an expansion with the book, maybe a map and some figures for the expansion, even if the price was more.
Should be getting exactly that today or tomorrow as an add-on.
Interesting, but that brings a new question. If the campaign book is designed to be used with these new miniatures and/or map(s), how much value does it have without them? Or is this a completely different campaign book with maps and miniatures? What's the play testing on this stuff? The more things they add the more stuff there is to test. Especially in a campaign where the sides progress in strength. The game being in production for 2 years sounds impressive, but the more new stuff you add the more testing that is required to balance it. Then if you then are splitting your testing between base rules and campaign rules, and scenario testing increases from 8 scenarios to 27+ scenarios, that's even more variables. We aren't even thru the first week of the kickstarter yet, so lots more is going to be added.
The other thing I wonder about is exclusive sculpts like Baal Pteor. How many scenarios can you use this exclusive sculpt in? My understanding is that each scenario has set lists for the evil side, not choose your own army. So being that Baal Pteor is a kickstarter exclusive, how many scenarios can he possibly be in? There will be no additional demand for scenarios featuring him once the game goes retail. If you just like the sculpt, $10 might be OK, but if you want him for the gameplay, $10 for a guy who might only be in one scenario and isn't likely to be in any future scenarios seems steep.
The expansion that is coming today is separate from the campaign book but will come with boards, minis, scenarios, etc. It's my understanding they have most, if not all, of the stretch/add-on content developed. Baal comes with 2 scenarios, I'm unsure of his use beyond those 2.
tre manor wrote: Well Cincy what I saw had clearly visible lines where the tool parted. It could well be we are willing to judge the same product by two different standards.
There's no standard difference that we're judging by.
I've got it in my hand. Right now. I'm telling you you're wrong, and that the use of the word "significant" is absolutely wrong by any definition of the word. But, as you clearly implied, my untrained eye must operate on a "different standard."
I get that you don't like PVC, and that's fine. But your rhetoric in any KS thread using it is, quite frankly, getting tiring, because more often than not it sounds like you have an axe to grind against any KS that doesn't run their project and production to the way you seem fit. First it's Early Birds. Now it's the material, which, while I respect your valuable input as a member of the industry, you simply haven't worked. And this isn't the first KS thread you've jumped in to tell us how they're doing it wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, and you're just trying to offer us, the consumer, some valuable insight about which KS projects we should back and why. But because you've run projects that have been less successful than the ones you're critiquing, it does occasionally come off as sour grapes.
Larger figures(like the Pride model you have) are usually going to be the best of the bunch when you have PVC involved; see the Noh from Relic Knights. I want to see some of the smaller models involved with this campaign in the material. I still have a pile of cerci models staring at me with their blank faces and hair thin arms and legs.
Don't get me wrong, I want to like this game, but I seem to recall hearing the whole, "We've taken extra precautions- exaggerated detail, secured the best manufacturer, mastered the process, trust us with your money!" If they have, great! But it's not something I haven't heard before, and that's what people need to know before throwing down oodles of dollars on this. No where on their main page do they mention PVC- the miniatures are said to be made of "plastic" which I guess is true, but also misleading. When people hear plastic they think GW quality, which I'm sure aren't up to the same standard. I'll be honest, I don't own any Dust miniatures so I don't know their quality, but I haven't heard anyone sing their praises either. I've only read reviews that say, "decent" or "acceptable".
Adam Poots delayed his project by a year or more switching to HIPS, because he felt PVC was an obviously inferior material. I should mention his project is a board game as well. I want to see a stretchgoal that says, "At this point, we're making everything in High-Impact PolyStyrene." But I know that's not going to happen, because it's only a "board game". Which sounds to me like, "Why should we bother making display pieces for this game?" Which seems at odds with these wonderfully detailed miniatures made of PVC. They're not making these figures out of metal, or resin, or HIPS, but PVC and we should expect PVC quality, which is at best average. Even the Noh I mentioned before(which I have held in my hands) are fairly bland. They look average. And people should know they should expect average quality at best from this kickstarter's miniatures.
1. The "formula" used in Relic Knights will be materially different from the one used in this game, just as it was with Arcadia Quest.
2. Poots wasn't going for the 'boardgame' crowd with his game. He was going for the boutique miniatures crows. Monolith isn't. They, much like Fantasy Flight Games does, want to sell their product as a boardgame. Multi-part models is NOT something board gamers want, and quite frankly I don't for a boardgame either. I want to be able to play right out of the box. And honestly, the Kingdom Death situation is wearing thin for me.
3. I don't think the majority of the people hear plastic and think GW, especially with Monoliths target market of boardgamers. Especially when it's a boardgame and being marketed as a boardgame.
4. I think using the Relic Knights models as your exemplar is a poor one. While chibi models, the Arcadia quest ones are probably your best example right now, as they're similarly one piece. Yes, the scale is different, but there are multiple tiny details in the pieces, and there's a noticeable difference in the material. Further, while the Pride model is large, there are plenty of small details that are retained in it's sample pre-production iteration that are on the scale of a human sized model.
5. We're getting to the point where I'm really looking forward to seeing all the master painters that we seem to have on this thread. There's a very small percentage of people out there that can even take advantage of the increased detail a resin brings, and that small % can make a 1 piece PVC model, like a Zombicide hero, look like a million bucks. Monolith could make some resin models of these sculpts for that apparently gigantic market of Crystal Brush and Golden Demon winners, but they want to make a board game. I have a lot of trouble begrudging them for that at all.
Ok I will admit that I judge more harshly than others so I will give you that. But what I am seeing here are mold lines. It is my understanding ( which admittedly might be inaccurate ) that mold lines in PVC models are difficult to remove or reduce. I thought that that was a problem for people.
And I Do like PVC. I would love to produce in it. I think that Dust Studios ( and a number of other lesser known names ) do produce a great product when the material is part of the deign process. There are a few figures in this campaign that i think will probabyl produce really well because of the way they are sculpted. The Savage Belit, Shevatas, Baal Pteor, the Man Ape, the Picts. Those look liek the kind of figures that will come through production really well. Maybe ALL of them will I do not know.
I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade, the game looks like fun and overall for a boardgame it looks like a great product. I might have made some different design decisions but ultimately I guess I am judging it by the all together wrong rubric.
Sour grapes is nto quite accurate but I will readily admit to a significant degree of jealousy. Maybe it is indeed I who just doesn't do it " right".
The earlier Dust models that I had did come with some lines in them, but clean-up was a doddle compared to the horror that was Sedition Wars' restic nonsense. I've not seen the more recent ones to comment on those, but hopefully lots of lessons were learned.
Anyway... Book case is now unlocked and we should be nearing the skull piles now that the expansion has been added
All models are supplied with the necessary tiles and tokens.
1 big gameboard: 29 9/16 x 23 5/8 inches (70x60cm)
1 small gameboard: 13 25/32 x 23 5/8 inches (35x60cm)
15 equipment & spell cards
2 scenarios written by the award winning Antoine Bauza and Ludovic Maublanc
2 scenarios written by the team at Monolith (on Monolith Conan upcoming website)
I hope that some future stretch goals bulk out the expansion a bit as the current price vs content seems... odd. Especially with only two of the 4 scenarios coming in the box. I can only assume that this is a retail box and the extra 2 scenarios rely upon King level models.
Yep, it's pricey, especially as it only contains half of the scenarios designed for it. I was thinking it would be about $40 at most. It has no exclusive content so will be cheaper at retail and buying it now adds to our shipping charge. I added funds for it, but may well lower my pledge soon.
Yep, no hero. No monster either. The thing that probably bothers me most, apart from the price, is that they designed 4 scenarios for it but only include 2 of them in the box...
Holy crap, last time I checked this a couple of days ago, it was around 400k
this took off like a rocket.
Nice to see it doing so well, hope they hit a home run with everything, based on some of the Demos from some french players via BGG, sounds like it is a real fun game.
Piston Honda wrote: Holy crap, last time I checked this a couple of days ago, it was around 400k
this took off like a rocket.
Nice to see it doing so well, hope they hit a home run with everything, based on some of the Demos from some french players via BGG, sounds like it is a real fun game.
Yeah, I found the KS link myself, which is how I got to this thread. Just wondering if there was a good summary post, since a lot of good KS threads have those. Guess not.
I think they are understating what's in that expansion box. Then the other items can be "stretch goals" , not a good PR option, but the stretches have been getting blown out of the water, so anything is possible.
As for a round up....
Using the new PVC formula that the newest DUST figures is using, also being used for The Others.
Preassembled figs.
videos for gameplay are on the kickstarter page.
No Red Sonja as the rights for her are owned by Marvel, but any other character is possible.
Complaints
The usual: people want this to be a wargame not a board game, and more variety in the minions posing.
Some sculpts aren't living up to the artists drawings
And no one would ever hold an axe like that.
Oh and the colorblind coalition is up in arms that the dice colors might cause an issue to some players(I get that it could be an issue for some, but two days of hearing the lamentation of them would wear even on Conan)
tre manor wrote: I might have made some different design decisions but ultimately I guess I am judging it by the all together wrong rubric.
Well, hopefully the Conan boardgame will increase interest in not-Conan miniatures appealing more to the non-boardgamers. I've been looking for them, and I can only find not-Conan and not-Sonja figures.
Maybe the gentleman at Red Box Games could put out a few not-Belit sculpts...
tre manor wrote: I might have made some different design decisions but ultimately I guess I am judging it by the all together wrong rubric.
Well, hopefully the Conan boardgame will increase interest in not-Conan miniatures appealing more to the non-boardgamers. I've been looking for them, and I can only find not-Conan and not-Sonja figures.
Maybe the gentleman at Red Box Games could put out a few not-Belit sculpts...
Would you be able to recognize Belit with her clothes on?
Would you be able to recognize Belit with her clothes on?
Strangly the only Tre-sculpted mini I got around to actually buy before it was discontinued is the topless witch woman, because I had a definite use for her (Druid Wilder proxy)
tre manor wrote:
Ok I will admit that I judge more harshly than others so I will give you that. But what I am seeing here are mold lines. It is my understanding ( which admittedly might be inaccurate ) that mold lines in PVC models are difficult to remove or reduce. I thought that that was a problem for people.
It really depends on the PVC and the way the mold lines are placed. I haven't cleaned my Babylon Dust stuff yet, but older soldier models where okay to clean up, if the new stuff is even better I won't mind the material being used for rank'n'file or boardgame stuff. Now the gloves on the Axis gorillas were a horror to try to clean, finicky details with lots of round surfaces and not a lot of room for tools is not a good thing to attempt with PVC.
My worst experience: The Super Dungeon Explore minis took away my will to live and I spaced working on them over the better part of a year. You cant slice mold lines away without creating a step or a flap of overhangingmaterial, you cant properly file it, scraping is impossible. Urgh. The dragon mouth is stuff of nightmares. I heard the material got slightly etter with the expansions, that's the only thing making me looking forward to my FK stuff without dread.
My third and last PVC batch is some Hordes stuff, with ranges from terrible (Fennblades) to okay-ish (Feral Warpwolf and some other stuff from the two player starter). I don't buy morevof their plastics, though, terrible pricing for the quality you get.
i really think it needs a lot of planning and straight up more experience with the material and every company trying to get satisfying results by simlpy taking their usual sculpts and get made in PVC will fail to deliver a quality product.
Are the Conan sculpts going to look good in PVC? I don't know, because the only Dust figures I've seen the original sculpts of I haven't seen the models in the flesh I have seen the sculpt for a female sniper with slender limbs, though, and I know from online complaints and pics that those tiny appendages turned out horrible in manufacturing). I think your assessement is quite good, though. It doesn't help that the Picts are the only sculpts I really like, so now pledge from me so far.
PS: The Others I'm hoping will turn out in a way that I can throw money at my screen without remorse, though. Good thing they'll run Blood Rage
first, let those backers be guinea pigs
PPS: My first post and largely off topic, but how could I NOT respond to one of my favourite sculptors. Looove your understanding of anatomy. But seriously, there's so much of your stuff I wanted to buy sometime and before I had money/time for it it was gone. Even your newer stuff, the crazy naked guys with big weapons are gone from your site?
$55 is too high for me for an expansion that doesn't seem to add anything to the core set experience other than 4 more scenarios. It was hoping for a campaign at that price.
My other concern which extends to all of the stretch goals and add-ons, is that as I understand it, each scenario has a set list of miniatures to use. There is no "create your own army" option for each scenario. So that $55 expansion only gets me four more scenarios and the extra pieces don't add anything to the scenarios I already own. Sure, fan made stuff you might say, but I'm not paying $55 on the hope I might like what fans make up. I'm basing the replay value on the game's actual content, not what fans or I might make up for it later. Likewise, Baal Pteor at $10 might be ok if he could be used in every scenario, but $10 for a figure that can only be used in two scenarios has significantly less value as a board game piece.
Even if it was just in a "skirmish mode" like Star Wars: Imperial Assault, there would be a lot more replay value if you had point values for each model and could make your own balanced list of heroes/villains based on the point values to make things fair. Then each new model gives you more options rather than just some variety when you play their specific scenario. You could still have an "official" suggested list to make things as close to the stories as possible, and a point total value for variant replays where an additional layer of strategy comes from picking different models and seeing how they work in each scenario.
I don't want just a list of what minions come with the expansion, I want details on their abilities. What makes a "tower guard" or "honor guard" different from a "guard" or a "javelin thrower" different from an "archer" in the game? The board game angle of the marketing is really low on information. Why don't we get to see their exact stats and abilities for each new stretch goal and add-on if they have been in testing for as long as they claim? Why don't we know exactly how many scenarios have been unlocked so far via Stretch goals in an easy to find place on the front page of the kickstarter? The stretch goal mini's are supposed to have scenarios to use them with, but I haven't seen any official info on how many.
Even if they are posted with a note that these are still being tested and subject to change, it would be better than nothing. I haven't even seen a list of what the exact abilities are of the base and king set models are yet. Rules still aren't posted yet. As a miniature collection I know I will get at least a decent deal with the King pledge, but it's funny that they use simpler poses and one piece sculpts to appeal to board gamers, but the actual board game part of this whole thing has a very small amount of official information on the kickstarter page making it look like they are more focused on selling a miniature collection.
You could, but that is very much the domain of an RPG (where you are getting a weighty rule set to facilitate the creation of worlds and scenarios) rather than a boardgame (where you are paying a premium to have everything ready to play out of the box and properly playtested). I suppose the debate is not whether you'll actually be able to *use* all of the Kickstarted extras, it's whether the expansion in particular represents value compared to other boardgame expansions of similar price. Compared to the typical $50 CMON on, I don't think it does.
Of course, right now the pound is just tanking against the dollar (I think 1 dollar = ~70p on Paypal currently) to the extent that I'm delaying paying for shipping on existing projects, so I may be feeling the sting a bit more harshly than the Americans!
Edit: I suppose you can try to bridge the gap, like Warhammer Quest did and Mantic's Dungeon Saga is also promising to do - have tons of scenarios, but also include stats for a massive variety of models and the ability to mechanically generate scenarios rather that hand-craft every element.
We've just broken through the vampire Akivasha, so that's another villain unlocked.
Next up is her coffin/sarcophagus
Conan has also been voted most anticipated game of 2015 on BoardGameGeek; though I suspect this has something to do with the poll being advertised in the kickstarter on a regular basis...
BGG's always been plagued by the Cult of the New. KS just emphasises it!
Actually, thanks to the poll, I heard about Mysterium. One player gives the others clues through the art on the cards. If the other players start drawing the wrong conclusions...
Stretch goal stretching happens again. We are at $50k to the next stretch goal, must be running thin on any "extras" now. We started with the goals at a $25k spread and they've slowly crept up to 50k apart.
Think I'm going to go with the king pledge and the basic extras, and most of the add ons except for the expansion and the $25 two figure pack as I just don't see the benefits of those yet. Still have plenty of time to watch and see if they add anything to them or give us a better idea of why they are charging the prices for those.
Stretch goal gaps always increase as the funding and backer numbers go up. It's a natural part of any KS as they have to start fulfilling more and more pledges. I don't see why this is such a big issue with people. We're already getting an amazing deal and any future SG is gravy. They could just NOT give us any more freebies, but they continue to do so, they just have to cover their costs too.
It doesn't mean they're necessarily running thin, just that they 1) have to pace themselves since there's over 3 weeks left of the campaign, and 2) the greater the number of backers, the greater the cost of adding something for all backers past and future. Of course, the added costs of a single plastic model + shipping weight are going to be pretty negligible, but that's the principle.
Zombicide Season 3 had stretch goals all the way until the end, and was a $3 million campaign. The stretches hit $100K gaps at a certain point, and then eventually $300K. Beyond a certain point, it's just what they can get away with to maintain the pace of the campaign and encourage new backers.
Something that Mantic does, and I'd like to see here, is pumping up the value of add-ons with stretch goals. It makes the stretch goals more likely to be bought, and a better prospect at retail as well. And would alleviate some of the pricing concerns as they stand - what if the expansion was a whole linked campaign with monsters, heroes, and lots of new terrain?
Doesn't cost them any more to produce (the tools and production run would have been paid for), and you end up with something almost essential for fans of the game & series, even if they buy it at retail later on.
@alexC, sorry, I'm not trying to say anything bad about the stretch goals, or not getting enough free stuff. Like I said in my posts I haven't followed kickstarters too closely over the last year or so, so not sure of the trends. I understand economies of scale, and how more people jumping in means more outlay for them, it still just seams strange to me how quickly these have adjusted. Of course that could be due to how fast the kickstarter is going, still 3 weeks to go
TwilightSparkles wrote: Couldn't you just make up your own rules to play that way ? Not the same I know, but you'll have the stats and the minis, which is the hard part.
I don't want to buy a $55 expansion and feel like I am having to count on fan made content to get more than 4 scenarios out of it.
I'm just surprised there isn't more focus on the actual game play of this expansion. We have a very basic plot summary of assassinate the wizard, and get captured and try to escape the burning tower.
We have no details on what any of the miniatures do. What makes an honor guard different from a regular guard, or a javelin thrower different from an archer? When we are told these have been in development for a long time, but the lack of details on game play is a bit worrying. There is a new rules video up that I will watch later. I thought Myth looked really cool in their sample play videos and explanations too, but the initial rule book was a disaster and they weren't translating from another language.
$55 might be a fair retail cost for the material components included, but if it only gives me 4 scenarios (2 of which will be from the website), that's a terrible cost per scenario. If there are official rules for making balanced substitutions of these and other figures into other scenarios then I would feel a bit better about the value. I'm not giving any value to fan made content unless there are official rules for creating that content in a balanced manner. Making something up is easy, making something balanced for both heroes and villains requires play testing. Less important in an RPG game, but Conan advertises itself as a game where both the good and evil sides are strategically balanced as a competitive game.
Value wise, compare the Conan expansion to Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition) – Labyrinth of Ruin @ $59.99 retail ($41.49 online retailer price). It includes:
•A 48-Page Rulebook and Quest Guide
•17 detailed plastic miniatures and 2 custom dice
•119 Cards and 4 Hero Sheets
•18 Map Tiles
•91 Tokens
Included is a campaign with 19 quests. A new ally mechanics, where depending on which way you go, you pick up a healer or thief ally with mechanics for the overlord to try and win that ally over to their side. Four new heroes, new classes for the heroes, and it's compatible with their "quest vault" where players can create new quests and upload them for others on the FFG website. You also get new monsters, new treasure and a new dice that has more surges on it that goes with the new content.
The Conan expansion has:
4 scenarios (2 of which you have to get from the website later)
21 figures
1 big game board
1 small game board
15 equipment & spell cards
New stealth mechanics for at least one of these scenarios. New Fire mechanic for at least one of the scenarios.
There just seems to be a lot more actual game play in what Descent's expansion is offering and that is more in line with what I would expect at that price point (and the Descent is $13.51 cheaper from online retailers and would be shipped within a week). As a miniature collection, we don't have any pictures of the expansion's sculpts yet to make any descisions. The Barbarian and King pledge plus stretch goals is still a good deal though.
I am thinking about backing at $90 Barbarian level. It seems that Barbarian gives plenty of stuff via the Stretch Goals, enough to play for a very long time.
The $135 King level basically adds a big expansion worth of stuff, including Thog, which is pretty cool. But is Thog & dice worth the extra $45?
And once we start down that road, don't we get the +$55 add-on expansion, too?
JohnHwangDD wrote: I am thinking about backing at $90 Barbarian level. It seems that Barbarian gives plenty of stuff via the Stretch Goals, enough to play for a very long time.
The $135 King level basically adds a big expansion worth of stuff, including Thog, which is pretty cool. But is Thog & dice worth the extra $45?
And once we start down that road, don't we get the +$55 add-on expansion, too?
I'm thinking about it, but you also have to keep in mind that it is really that $105 Barbarian and $150 King ($15 Shipping for US).
I just don't know that it is worth that much to me.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I am thinking about backing at $90 Barbarian level. It seems that Barbarian gives plenty of stuff via the Stretch Goals, enough to play for a very long time.
The $135 King level basically adds a big expansion worth of stuff, including Thog, which is pretty cool. But is Thog & dice worth the extra $45?
And once we start down that road, don't we get the +$55 add-on expansion, too?
I'm thinking about it, but you also have to keep in mind that it is really that $105 Barbarian and $150 King ($15 Shipping for US).
I just don't know that it is worth that much to me.
$15 was the minimum for shipping iirc. Probably a tad higher with what you get now.
Have there been other kickstarters with "pay after you pledge" shipping lately? We have any idea what they ended up paying so we might can make a comparison?
Pay for shipping after campaign end is actually a reasonable thing to do because shipping rates can go up before you wind up fulfilling.
You can also offer 'free' shipping and build it into the pledge, or just eat any losses if rates go up. But I think Monolith is operating on some pretty tight margins here. One concern might be that they try to make any miscalculations by gouging on shipping rates.
Not to say that they will do that, but one simply doesn't know.
Lots of KS handle post-campaign shipping based on country.
The newer CMoN KS do this, along with Soda Pop, etc. Basically, it helps separate shipping costs from production costs, reducing cross-subsidy. It's a lot fairer, because each backer basically pays their own way.
The downside is that it slightly reduces international backing of US-based projects, because they need to consider that outbound US shipping has become super expensive due to increased fees.
But even with that there are KS that have made arrangements with different distribution hubs worldwide which have reduced the shipping fees for many, and even manage to get around some of the import fees associated with big boxes coming from abroad.
Sure, but finding a reputable company to handle distribution is a challenge of sorts. There are lots of distributors, and ALL of them claim to be honest, efficient, and good. ALL of them say they can handle your distribution, no problem. No extra fees, blah blah blah.
And then you sign a contract with them, ship six figures worth of stuff to them...
Sorting through the BS and vetting them takes time, isn't easy.
tre manor wrote: I might have made some different design decisions but ultimately I guess I am judging it by the all together wrong rubric.
Well, hopefully the Conan boardgame will increase interest in not-Conan miniatures appealing more to the non-boardgamers. I've been looking for them, and I can only find not-Conan and not-Sonja figures.
Maybe the gentleman at Red Box Games could put out a few not-Belit sculpts...
Where did you find non-Conan and non-Sonja? I'd totally be interested in them whether I get into this project or not (I'm assuming the mini's will be good for gaming but not for painting/display)
Hasslefree is making a really good Conan like barbarian model. Depends on your taste, of course, but check the Hasslefreesian Facebook page, Kev White's personal page. You can see the green there.
Well, the map does appear to differ significantly from Howard's sketches. But I am not a Howard scholar or anything.
For a product purporting to be specific to Howard's Conan, I can understand some discussion about the accuracy of the map. If you are courting nerds, it comes with the territory, just like discussions about model quality comes with courting table top wargamers.
Imagine if GW published an inaccurate map of Middle Earth.
Who is saying they are going to back out of the project because the map is inaccurate? Anyone? I haven't read the KS comments. If not, then it is nerds nerding out over a map. That is so common in the fantasy industry it hardly bears special comment. Just because it is 'free' doesn't mean people won't want to point out that ACTUALLY, the coast of Sakezonia is shaped like a floppy donkey .
Alex C wrote: the map is inaccurate and the axe is too big.
What? Is Hyborea a real place that we have surveyed via satellite for absolute accuracy in geography and features? Is that the "accuracy" issue? Or is it a political issue, like having a map with the USSR and Burma? Or perhaps colonialism like Rhodesia?
But yes, the axe is too big to be realistic. It looks good on the model, though.
Alex C wrote: the map is inaccurate and the axe is too big.
What? Is Hyborea a real place that we have surveyed via satellite for absolute accuracy in geography and features? Is that the "accuracy" issue? Or is it a political issue, like having a map with the USSR and Burma? Or perhaps colonialism like Rhodesia?
But yes, the axe is too big to be realistic. It looks good on the model, though.
Note that I never claimed that.
I don't know what the issue is myself, I think everything so far is great!
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sorry, I was just wondering by what basis the complainers are claiming inaccuracy, as that implies some sort of accurate reference point.
Something to do with the fact that the map graphic they used in the SG image was from the MMORPG, which apparently differs to Howard's original map in some way. In any event, a Monolith employee apparently confirmed on a french forum somewhere that the image is just a placeholder.
Jamie wrote:Also whilst I'm thinking about it: some of you may of noticed that this map isn't exactly Canon, well spotted Howard fans! It is indeed not entirely accurate and is just acting as a placeholder for the moment. We will be working with the keeper of lore himself, Mr Louinet, to make sure that this is a 100% Howard approved map by the time it is in your hands You'll need some big hands too as it will be printed in A2 format.
1million just broken , on to the next goal fellows. I was camping out trying to be the one to take it above 1,000,000, but missed it by a second. Too busy watching guardians of the Galaxy.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sorry, I was just wondering by what basis the complainers are claiming inaccuracy, as that implies some sort of accurate reference point.
I used that map when I ran Conan the RPG years ago, and thought it was alright. There were a few things that were a bit off as compared to Howard's writings though, IIRC there were a number of cities that were just not in the right location. So on the nerdrage-scale I'd say it had the capacity to elicit a high pitch and slight strain to my voice, but no bubbling saliva or anything like that.
Alex C wrote: the map is inaccurate and the axe is too big.
What? Is Hyborea a real place that we have surveyed via satellite for absolute accuracy in geography and features? Is that the "accuracy" issue? Or is it a political issue, like having a map with the USSR and Burma? Or perhaps colonialism like Rhodesia?
But yes, the axe is too big to be realistic. It looks good on the model, though.
No weapon is too big for Conan. Mighty thews are mighty!
Prestor Jon wrote: No weapon is too big for Conan. Mighty thews are mighty!
And mighty loins are mighty!
Yet we don't have that modeled to match the story, much less overdone for cheap visuals.
My bad I didn't realize that we had to have realistically scaled axeheads in a heroic swords and sorcery game that includes wizards, ape men, swamp demons and giant spiders with skull shaped abdominal growths. RE Howard is not the source you want to use if you're looking for realism.
Yes the axe is too big and the armor is impractical ornamentation but Monolith has chosen to embrace the high fantasy fantastical elements and look instead of a low fantasy grittyness so it's par for the course here.
For those that aren't reading the updates, Howard wrote himself into the Conan stories and called himself Balthus. Much as I love the model, the description of Balthus that they posted from the original text holds no real relation to the sculpt which, as you can imagine, is causing some uproar in the comments
“He was a young man of medium height, with an open countenance and a mop of tousled tawny hair unconfined by cap or helmet. His garb was common enough for that country – a coarse tunic, belted at the waist, short leather breeches beneath, and soft buckskin boots that came short of the knee. A knife-hilt jutted from one boot-top. The broad leather belt supported a short, heavy sword and a buckskin pouch. There was no perturbation in the wide eyes that scanned the green walls which fringed the trail. Though not tall, he was well built, and the arms that the short wide sleeves of the tunic left bare were thick with corded muscle.”
I know I am goign to catch hell for saying it but THAT MODEL WILL LOOK NOTHING LIKE THAT RENDER when you pull it out of the box.
....................and the pose really sucks too.
and since I am slapping the bear...............
but Monolith has chosen to embrace the high fantasy fantastical elements and look instead of a low fantasy grittyness
Fair enough and if that is what people like ( obviously it is ) that is fine, but the tag lien of this project is " True to Howard's Vision " Which bears no resemblance what so ever to what we are seeing shown thus far. As I have said before...horses for courses. This is aimed at Conan fans using the names and fluff for little more than marketing materials and vague reference points. It is great high fantasy. I am no knocking the artistry or presentation, I am just saying this is as much Conan as the Jason MoMoa movie was Conan......which aint none atall.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sorry, I was just wondering by what basis the complainers are claiming inaccuracy, as that implies some sort of accurate reference point.
Robert E Howard has drawn his own maps. It would be like a Middle Earth map that is inconsistent with what JRRT drew.
That's what makes it a nerdy issue. And as an aside, Howard's mapping tends to follow real world geography pretty closely. Generally speaking, Howard liked to ground his fantasy in something tangible.
tre manor wrote: I know I am goign to catch hell for saying it but THAT MODEL WILL LOOK NOTHING LIKE THAT RENDER when you pull it out of the box.
....................and the pose really sucks too.
and since I am slapping the bear...............
but Monolith has chosen to embrace the high fantasy fantastical elements and look instead of a low fantasy grittyness
Fair enough and if that is what people like ( obviously it is ) that is fine, but the tag lien of this project is " True to Howard's Vision " Which bears no resemblance what so ever to what we are seeing shown thus far. As I have said before...horses for courses. This is aimed at Conan fans using the names and fluff for little more than marketing materials and vague reference points. It is great high fantasy. I am no knocking the artistry or presentation, I am just saying this is as much Conan as the Jason MoMoa movie was Conan......which aint none atall.
I agree that Monolith hasn't been as true to the source material as they could have been, which is a bit odd to me considering how much they emphasized that they were going for accuracy. The picts are too tall and big for one. And as has been pointed out before there doesn't seem to be any consistency with realism or one/two handed use when it comes to weapons. It's disappointing to me because I have all of RE Howard's work and there is a lot of great artwork out there, in black and white and in color that does a great job of capturing Howard's descriptions and a lot of the sculpts in this KS, while very nice, don't share that same level of accuracy.
I wonder if they'll end up changing that model "for the fans", and lose a bit of that detail in the process. It will be interesting to see how this kickstarter's models turn out.
Been away for a few days and absolutely stunned by how much this KS has made!
Definitely looking like a very good deal, and more so as time goes on.
My only hesitation is that I've currently paid out on 3 KS (AvP, Heroquest, Fractured Dimensions) and none of them show any sign of releasing soon! Ah well, perhaps pledge on this one and then forget about it for six months..
Still not jumped on board yet - quite a bit of it looks good but not sure on some of the sculpts
eg Akivisha is a fav Conan character excited to see her but then she does look she is shivering rather than being a centuries old seductress, ageless and deadily.
I wonder if they are doing the Frost Giants daughater and her brothers a good sculpt of these would probably make me purchase............
My bad I didn't realize that we had to have realistically scaled axeheads in a heroic swords and sorcery game that includes wizards, ape men, swamp demons and giant spiders with skull shaped abdominal growths. RE Howard is not the source you want to use if you're looking for realism.
Yes the axe is too big and the armor is impractical ornamentation but Monolith has chosen to embrace the high fantasy fantastical elements and look instead of a low fantasy grittyness so it's par for the course here.
The funny thing is that the image they've used shows the concept art and the (obviously) much smaller figure, yet the axehead on the figure is larger than the one on the concept art!
Not that I care a lot, but it's rather funny. More of concern is the number of stretch goals in this one. It seems way too good to be true, especially now in 2015 when we've very much seen how KS works in actuality. When this campaign breaks up into several waves, the shipping is going to hit people really hard. There's no chance of this being on time (in October!!!!), so expect it to be at least a year late (more like about 15-18 months) for what will only be the base box as Wave 1, with the rest to follow anywhere from 6 months to a year or more later in probably a couple of waves, based on the number of freebies and add-ons.
Look at any number of existing campaigns to see how it works.
JohnHwangDD wrote: So with all the unlocks, we might be looking at $90 pledge + $20-25 in shipping? So $110-115? That's less attractive than $90 flat.
Anyone who thinks they'll only be paying $15 shipping when this ships across multiple waves in 2016-17(-18?) is dreaming. You'll potentially be paying a couple of batches of $20 by the time it all ships.
$150-ish really isn't that much for all the stuff you get, but while I'd like to take a chance on this, I'm concerned about what will be a very large shipping bill, and of course how burned I've been by every other boardgame's shipping from the last year. If I was in the US, I'd probably still go for it.
I think the lamp stands have killed the momentum of this KS , we were doing soooooo good too.
While I agree with what your saying in principle about getting the KS out on time due to other KS histories, I still think this will probably be less than a year late. Almost every SG has had a model shown, or a render that looks like it will translate easy enough. It's not like mantic where you get the doodle for an idea on a napkin and they say they'll find someone/anyone to sculpt it. I really think they have most all of it nailed down already and are shooting to have the game out and people playing it/ getting others hook for Christmas.
But are they actually samples of the PVC coming with the game, or just resin casts sent out with the scenario prototype for people to review the gameplay? We already know the sculpts are great, what matters is how well the sculpts translate into actual PVC models.
On the other hand, look at Wrath of Kings. 8-9 months late depending on where you live, and it's been run by CMoN who have a lot of experience and contacts in KSing now, as well as experience with Restic/PVC etc. They also had sculpts of almost everything done before the KS (there's some concept art, but a relatively small amount). Monolith have none of that experience, and we only need to look at Journey/Cthulhu Wars/Mantic in general/Incursion to see how "China" screws around small unimportant clients like KS boardgame manufacturing...
Their timeline is horribly unrealistic (or "optimistic" as Fireteam Zero admitted on their own Day 1), and they have a huge number of freebie stretch goals. That doesn't bode well for any part of the production, or trust for that matter.
But like I said, if wave shipping costs (and probable import taxes being brought in) weren't a concern, I'd probably go in for it anyway.
we only need to look at Journey/Cthulhu Wars/Mantic in general/Incursion to see how "China" screws around small unimportant clients like KS boardgame manufacturing...
Yep. I'm already in on this KS, but based on the other half-dozen miniature Kickstarters I've backed the manufacturing, printing, assembly, packing and shipping is where they all bog down. Which kind of makes sense since that's 80% of the work. And if you've ever been a part of a big project team you know that kind of poor planning is actually pretty normal. People usually modestly underestimate how much time they will need to do something. But they hugely underestimate how long OTHER people will take to do something. And they don't see how sometimes slipping a date a little up front can cascade into major delays down the line.
Anyway, I bake all that that into a Kickstarter when I decide to pledge. Everything you said - I expect things to be about 9 months late, and I expect expansions to be even later (with additional shipping). But to me, that's part of the thing. They are asking you to pay money up front and take a risk; in return you get more swag. The delays (and postage) are the price you pay.
Like I said, I'm already in on this one, but anyone thinking about backing a KS should keep all this in mind. If you really need to know exactly what you're going to get and when you'll get it...best wait for the commercial release.
JohnHwangDD wrote: So with all the unlocks, we might be looking at $90 pledge + $20-25 in shipping? So $110-115? That's less attractive than $90 flat.
Anyone who thinks they'll only be paying $15 shipping when this ships across multiple waves in 2016-17(-18?) is dreaming. You'll potentially be paying a couple of batches of $20 by the time it all ships.
$150-ish really isn't that much for all the stuff you get, but while I'd like to take a chance on this, I'm concerned about what will be a very large shipping bill, and of course how burned I've been by every other boardgame's shipping from the last year. If I was in the US, I'd probably still go for it.
As a US backer, I would assume 2 waves for $20-25 - Wave 1 for the base game box, Wave 2 for everything else.
If I were on Oz, yeah, way more expensive.
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Mr Morden wrote: Still not jumped on board yet - quite a bit of it looks good but not sure on some of the sculpts
The Conan theme is nice, and the promised content looks very attractive.
For me, the question is whether I "need" another game that very much akin to Super Dungeon Explore, but with a lot more furniture. SPM just finished approvals, so SDE 2E Wave 1 is going into production, leaving China before CNY, shipping within the US sometime March / April. I probably won't decide until the last week.
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hubcap wrote: [I expect things to be about 9 months late, and I expect expansions to be even later (with additional shipping).
For something this big, yeah, it'll be ~6 months late for Wave 1, with Wave 2 some 6-9 months after that. Lot of content to get into production.
OK, I just watched the UNDEAD VIKING video review and I have to say, the miniatures look great!
As noted though, they're referred to as "prototypes" - do we know for certain that they are (or are not) representative of what we'll get from 'production'?
If these were the plastic prototypes they would be listed and shown on the KS page. For this guy to have gotten this package in time to show this video the package would have probably needed to have been shipped from France about a week or two ago. Which is about as long as the project has been running. So it stands to reason that Monolith, if they had a review copy with plastic prototypes to show, would have indeed shown that prototype in the KS video AND have made it very clear that they did indeed have plastic prototypes to show off.
And if they had prototypes to show off that woudl also mean that they had a tool produced and a test run completed....at which point you woudl need to ask....what is the KS for?
I personally cannto understand why they did NOT have a tool produced and a test run made before launching the KS as they could have easily afforded it with a fraction of the money spent in artwork and marketing materials for the campaign.
But putting that aside.....these are not plastic prototypes. these are resins. I am sure though that if I can wrong Monolith will officially correct my misconception.
Also....NO OFFENSE meant to Undead Viking at all....but why would Monolith send a review copy with plastic prototypes to Undead Viking and not to sites like CMoN or TTGN or D6G? Maybe they did and the reviews just have not turned up yet.
Also....NO OFFENSE meant to Undead Viking at all....but why would Monolith send a review copy with plastic prototypes to Undead Viking and not to sites like CMoN or TTGN or D6G? Maybe they did and the reviews just have not turned up yet.
maybe because they know him and his show? furthermore why send stuff to CMoN when they are a competitive company?
Because CMoN is CMoN. They are goign to be competing with them one way or another but CMoN has incredible reach in the industry and regularly report on the projects of other companies. Same goes for D6G and TTGN.........which is owned by CMoN BTW.
The other thing is that the campaign book with 19 scenarios in it and rules for progression requires the king pledge to run. Scenario per dollar that's the best deal they have so far, though they have said there will be another different campaign that doesn't require King pledge revealed at some point. Go with King plus the campaign book if you want that, or if you got an early bird where it's only $35 upgrade. Otherwise the barbarian is the best bang for the buck. They did say they will be adding more to the King's pledge at some point, but last time they added something it was just extra dice.
I've not seen anything solid yet, but the impression I got was they were not keen as it adds extra complication and hassle and they've got a very tight timeline
(people backing later via websites tend not to know what's going on and don't fill in their PMs on time based on the 'buzz on the streets.... but then again companies that allow post KS backing have not tended to be great about sending updates direct to those backers..)
but then again it is a good way to get extra money without loosing the extra KS cut (especially when they realise they are going to miss their targeted release date) so it might well still happen
tre manor wrote: Also....NO OFFENSE meant to Undead Viking at all....but why would Monolith send a review copy with plastic prototypes to Undead Viking and not to sites like CMoN or TTGN or D6G? Maybe they did and the reviews just have not turned up yet.
Total guess, but, for boardgames, Dice Tower used to be *the* web reviewer for KS boardgames. However, DT either no longer previews KS projects or requires a fee to preview a game. Also, DT had a bit of rulesgate when they reviewed Myth *not* from the rulebook, but from one of the creators who *flew down* to teach him the game. Not good. UV, meanwhile, was the only video boardgame reviewer (?) who reviewed Cthulhu Wars within a tight timeframe, and was willing to do this with a PnP version. Pretty reliable, imo. He's known on BGG, and has made boardgame videos before for the boardgame market. So, since Conan is supposed to be marketed a boardgame, he's a good candidate as a reviewer. Boardgame reviewers *are* notorious for asking for product and not posting reviews, so might as well stick to someone with a proven track record for (at least one of) your target audience.
Theophony wrote: Saw this picture in the comments section. Looks like production run pieces
I agree - that sheen and slight translucency reminds me very much of the SedWars material that they showed for Wave 2. I'm sure it paints up better than it photographs in the raw.
Really, this kind of stuff should be zenithal primed and washed before shown to the public.
Theophony wrote: Saw this picture in the comments section. Looks like production run pieces
I agree - that sheen and slight translucency reminds me very much of the SedWars material that they showed for Wave 2. I'm sure it paints up better than it photographs in the raw.
Really, this kind of stuff should be zenithal primed and washed before shown to the public.
these are just 3D printer models, not the finished product. PB showed a bunch of this stuff before we even saw the final renders.
also these look nothing like the Sedition wars stuff I got.
Also....NO OFFENSE meant to Undead Viking at all....but why would Monolith send a review copy with plastic prototypes to Undead Viking and not to sites like CMoN or TTGN or D6G? Maybe they did and the reviews just have not turned up yet.
As someone else said, because they are selling a boardgame, and he is by far one of the most trusted and respected boardgame reviewers on BGG.
He's always incredibly long winded, but I liked his review and quite like the game mechanics from what he showed.
Alpharius wrote: It is all coming down to the miniatures, and how much I think they can match the look of the 'prototypes' they've shown so far...
It was gameplay for me, and the video sold it.
For me, I don't need the miniatures to look like Kingdom Death resins. I'm happy with the detail I can get out of the 2nd Gen Zombicide miniatures, and I expect the Conan ones to be at that level or higher.
Next stretch goal reached, new one is a pack of equipment cards, 33 new treasures to collect or beat over your opponents heads.
I'm not as versed with kickstarters, only having backed four others, but it just seemed strange to me that we had all these miniatures unlocked and now just seems like they could have dropped some of these goals or the scenery in the first part and gotten more of a bang out of the stretches. Could be wrong, my armchair quarterbacking skills are weak.
Alpharius wrote: You may be detecting the Infamous "Fake Stretch Goals".
They're kind of a Kickstarter Legend.
Only, you know, real!
Indeed. And fake 'vale over retail'!
I thought that was just mantic
It's the standard schill. There's a formula. Did you know that these days you can hire a Kickstarter consultant? There's no denying that it is a formula that works. Infomercials work too.
Asterios wrote: problem is when the SG's become the same, it will cost new backers, and so far Conan has slowed down a lot(not as much as exploding kittens did).
I keep seeing people who state that "the project has slowed down!" but then I look at the kicktraq daily figures which shows it has remained at a steady ~$50-$70k a day since the initial opening day peak.
Where are people getting the impression the funding is slowing down?
Most kickstarters slow down some in the middle any way unless they add a bunch more add-ons, and ones with better value than most of what has been released so far.
Most people who know about the project and haven't decided yet will wait til the very end to pledge.
allowed to have their own opinion 
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I prefer Ray harryhausens versions, not as large but still original
