JohnHwangDD wrote: Sure. Just wanted to clarify, considering how narrow the Harlequins range has been, along with their Codex status.
Now compare with Eldar Aspects and/or Sisters of Battle - both of which have had proper Codices dating back to 2E, with new Codices in every edition for Eldar, and nearly every edition for Sisters.
It boggles the mind that GW creates new plastic Harlequins with their "expensive" sculpting and tooling process, but won't do this for Aspects or Sisters. That's insane.
Charles are getting what? 4 kits? Sisters arguably need more than that (Basic Sister with upgrades to help cover the different units that use that body, Canoness, Seraphim, Repentia, Priest/Confessor, Named characters (either the ones we have or new ones), Exorcist and Penitent Engine) and that's not counting splitting the different units into their own boxes with extra heavies or specials or making each unit distinct.
And how many Aspects and Phoenix Lords need an update to plastic again?
This is just a much cheaper release is all and doing it this way means that budget wise the Eldar have room for other stuff to be updated.
Heavy Sisters 1x Sisters core - 5 Sisters w/ Flamer, Melta, SB, HF; PW; banner
1x Sisters Heavy weapons - 2x MM, 2x HB, 2nd HF - makes Heavy Sisters
Sell just those 2 sprues and Sisters are a viable plastic army for the indefinite future. Even with Flying Nuns & HQs in metal, the army can be done in bulk, which is what matters.
Aside from the 2-in-1 Guardian/Dire Avenger kits, all of the Aspects and Phoenix Lords need to be redone: Fire Dragons (could share DA bodies), Striking Scorpions, Screaming Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers (could share Spider & Scorpion bodies). The Phoenix Lords aren't an issue, as they are small and only 1 is needed; however, the Aspects and Avatar should be converted over. I hope to see plastic Aspects with the next Eldar Codex.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sure. Just wanted to clarify, considering how narrow the Harlequins range has been, along with their Codex status.
Now compare with Eldar Aspects and/or Sisters of Battle - both of which have had proper Codices dating back to 2E, with new Codices in every edition for Eldar, and nearly every edition for Sisters.
It boggles the mind that GW creates new plastic Harlequins with their "expensive" sculpting and tooling process, but won't do this for Aspects or Sisters. That's insane.
Charles are getting what? 4 kits? Sisters arguably need more than that (Basic Sister with upgrades to help cover the different units that use that body, Canoness, Seraphim, Repentia, Priest/Confessor, Named characters (either the ones we have or new ones), Exorcist and Penitent Engine) and that's not counting splitting the different units into their own boxes with extra heavies or specials or making each unit distinct.
And how many Aspects and Phoenix Lords need an update to plastic again?
This is just a much cheaper release is all and doing it this way means that budget wise the Eldar have room for other stuff to be updated.
Heavy Sisters 1x Sisters core - 5 Sisters w/ Flamer, Melta, SB, HF; PW; banner
1x Sisters Heavy weapons - 2x MM, 2x HB, 2nd HF - makes Heavy Sisters
Sell just those 2 sprues and Sisters are a viable plastic army for the indefinite future. Even with Flying Nuns & HQs in metal, the army can be done in bulk, which is what matters.
Aside from the 2-in-1 Guardian/Dire Avenger kits, all of the Aspects and Phoenix Lords need to be redone: Fire Dragons (could share DA bodies), Striking Scorpions, Screaming Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers (could share Spider & Scorpion bodies). The Phoenix Lords aren't an issue, as they are small and only 1 is needed; however, the Aspects and Avatar should be converted over. I hope to see plastic Aspects with the next Eldar Codex.
Those 2 sprues don't cover everything I listed. Did you seriously ignore the list of everything I mentioned that's in metal that needs an update into plastic (since Finecast doesn't exist anymore)?
Nobody at GW ever promised future "updates" to things they released in the past (or release today).
Maybe todays Harlies are the last there ever be, and people 20 years for now will be crying for an update, that will never come. There's no guarantee they'll ever get more/newer things than they get today.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters can be done as 2 sprues:
Sisters Troops Heavy Sisters Sell just those 2 sprues and Sisters are a viable plastic army for the indefinite future. Even with Flying Nuns & HQs in metal, the army can be done in bulk, which is what matters.
Those 2 sprues don't cover everything I listed. Did you seriously ignore the list of everything I mentioned that's in metal that needs an update into plastic (since Finecast doesn't exist anymore)?
Yes, I did, because those other things just don't matter. Boiling the ocean is nonsense, so solve the immediate problem of basic Sisters being priced higher than special order metal Imperial Guard, and leverage that for the Heavies.
The Living Saint will never need to be done in plastic - she will never sell in volume, so it's a waste of money to convert her. Same with the Ecclesiarcy models. Pointless.
Heck, Sisters would probably be better if GW simply pulled the Ecclesiarcy models from sale when the move the basic girls to plastic. At least the army would have visual coherence.
____
Wonderwolf wrote:Or the could just squat Sisters.
Maybe todays Harlies are the last there ever be, and people 20 years for now will be crying for an update, that will never come. There's no guarantee they'll ever get more/newer things than they get today.
They could. Which is why I'm always shocked when Sisters get a Codex, and even more shocked by Sisters players complaining that they only have half a loaf. As a Dogs of War player, half a loaf is immeasurably better than none.
___
WrentheFaceless wrote:Lets be honest here
Digging Harlequins back up from beyond the grave is a good sign that SoB might have some truth to it?
Or wishful thinking?
I'm really not sure. Looking at the new Harlies, they are far more Grimdark (tm) than ever before, with their blacks and such.
If we are getting new Sisters in plastic, I think we'll be getting Sisters of Grimdark (tm). I doubt the aesthetic will hold, and am not sure what else might be done, given that the poster girls are already in black armor. Does GW really have the balls to sell tonsured female models?
Nobody at GW ever promised future "updates" to things they released in the past (or release today).
Maybe todays Harlies are the last there ever be, and people 20 years for now will be crying for an update, that will never come. There's no guarantee they'll ever get more/newer things than they get today.
Yes, they COULD. But unless they do there really isn't no reason to keep bringing up the possibility. We're well aware of Damocles' sword that hangs overhead and don't need a constant reminder.
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JohnHwangDD wrote: Yes, I did, because those other things just don't matter. Boiling the ocean is nonsense, so solve the immediate problem of basic Sisters being priced higher than special order metal Imperial Guard, and leverage that for the Heavies.
The Living Saint will never need to be done in plastic - she will never sell in volume, so it's a waste of money to convert her. Same with the Ecclesiarcy models. Pointless.
Heck, Sisters would probably be better if GW simply pulled the Ecclesiarcy models from sale when the move the basic girls to plastic. At least the army would have visual coherence.
You REALLY don't understand that an HQ in metal isn't fesible anymore do you? We lost an HQ in the last update because they ran out of stock for them. If the army gets a plastic update she needs to be in plastic or dropped because she won't stay in stock forever.
And Priests ARE a model than needs to be in plastic. Inquisition can take them, Guard has them and Sisters can take them. They can be taken in decent sized numbers to boot.
Do you really think about what you're posting?
And with Sisters ALL units matter because the supplies are VERY limited and we need to see them updated or replaced with something else. If there is an upsurge in Sisters armies with plastic models do you really think those metal models will last long?
It's Sisters defenders like you that make me very sympathetic to GW's obvious desire to Squat the Sisters by putting them out of their misery as a non-combat-capable force.
It's Sisters defenders like you that make me very sympathetic to GW's obvious desire to Squat the Sisters by putting them out of their misery as a non-combat-capable force.
You're doing a lot of gak talking for someone who thinks that keeping metal models in 2015, nearly 4 years after they stopped making new metal models, is a viable option. Seriously, it's not feasible and you're frankly crazy if you want to claim otherwise.
It's Sisters defenders like you that make me very sympathetic to GW's obvious desire to Squat the Sisters by putting them out of their misery as a non-combat-capable force.
You're doing a lot of gak talking for someone who thinks that keeping metal models in 2015, nearly 4 years after they stopped making new metal models, is a viable option. Seriously, it's not feasible and you're frankly crazy if you want to claim otherwise.
And you're full of gak yourself. I just bought a bunch of M1E metal minis on the last Black Friday sale, despite M2E plastics being available. Maybe you should calm the feth down.
It's Sisters defenders like you that make me very sympathetic to GW's obvious desire to Squat the Sisters by putting them out of their misery as a non-combat-capable force.
You're doing a lot of gak talking for someone who thinks that keeping metal models in 2015, nearly 4 years after they stopped making new metal models, is a viable option. Seriously, it's not feasible and you're frankly crazy if you want to claim otherwise.
And you're full of gak yourself. I just bought a bunch of M1E metal minis on the last Black Friday sale, despite M2E plastics being available. Maybe you should calm the feth down.
I am calm, I'm just saying your claim of what the Sisters can get away with for a release is full of it. I don't care that you bought a bunch of stuff from someone else, I'm talking about what GW needs to release so it doesn't shoot itself, or the stores that carry it's products, in the foot. Forcing people to go buy used models to fill in missing options for their armies is a bad idea.
C.S. Goto got a hold of DD's keyboard again is what happened.
Or you might be overreacting a bit?
I don't feel I am.
You kind of are, you went beyond respectfulness into insult. Take a deep breath and ask the Emperor for forgiveness, sister.
If I were to do that I'd need to be purging with fire afterwards to deal with the heresy in this thread.
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JohnHwangDD wrote: What makes you think GW wouldn't spin up more models if needed? It's not like they ever stopped spinning Eldar metal.
Eldar aren't in metal anymore, they're in Finecast.
And Kyrinov, the Seraphim Superiors and one of each of the Battle Sisters with Special Weapons going OOP and then being removed from the codex is why I think they won't do it. They're already not doing it. So really, what evidence is there that they will keep doing it since we keep losing models?
Grain of salt... but Fantasy Flight just announced an expansion for Relic, a 40k Talisman-alike, and one of the new featured playable classes is a Sister Hospitalier...
GW does like its product synergy, and this expansion is a summer release... so its another tiny droplet in the direction of rumored "Sister around May" talk.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Grain of salt... but Fantasy Flight just announced an expansion for Relic, a 40k Talisman-alike, and one of the new featured playable classes is a Sister Hospitalier...
GW does like its product synergy, and this expansion is a summer release... so its another tiny droplet in the direction of rumored "Sister around May" talk.
Anyway who cares, even if sisters come out on my birthday in May I won't be getting any since I've quit 40k.
My main objection will be the same - I suspect we'll get 10 plastic sisters for the price of 20 metal ones...
So you came to a 40k thread to tell us how you're not playing 40k? CSB.
And the chances of them charging terminator prices for sisters of battle is just not likely.
Go cause trouble in another thread.
Ah, good ol' pseudo-mod pretre. If you don't like what he's saying, report or ignore. Otherwise, he can say what he wants within the rules.
The only thing that would interest me with a new Sisters release would (possibly) be the codex. But I keep saying this: Sisters players better be careful what they wish for. A new codex has the potential to delete existing units and create new aberrant ones. I like my Sisters army a great deal, but I do not have much confidence GW will do right by it under their current design philosophy.
the_Armyman wrote: Ah, good ol' pseudo-mod pretre. If you don't like what he's saying, report or ignore. Otherwise, he can say what he wants within the rules.
You better run faster, because you're not escaping the irony.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Grain of salt... but Fantasy Flight just announced an expansion for Relic, a 40k Talisman-alike, and one of the new featured playable classes is a Sister Hospitalier...
GW does like its product synergy, and this expansion is a summer release... so its another tiny droplet in the direction of rumored "Sister around May" talk.
Anyway who cares, even if sisters come out on my birthday in May I won't be getting any since I've quit 40k.
My main objection will be the same - I suspect we'll get 10 plastic sisters for the price of 20 metal ones...
So you came to a 40k thread to tell us how you're not playing 40k? CSB.
And the chances of them charging terminator prices for sisters of battle is just not likely.
Go cause trouble in another thread.
Ah, good ol' pseudo-mod pretre. If you don't like what he's saying, report or ignore. Otherwise, he can say what he wants within the rules.
The only thing that would interest me with a new Sisters release would (possibly) be the codex. But I keep saying this: Sisters players better be careful what they wish for. A new codex has the potential to delete existing units and create new aberrant ones. I like my Sisters army a great deal, but I do not have much confidence GW will do right by it under their current design philosophy.
I'm not sure the could delete many units and still call it a sisters codex. There are 6 HQ's, 1 troop, 2 elites, 3 heavy, and 2 fast attack. There are no non apoc formations, no detachments, no flyers, and no lords of war. If they make Celestine LOW and keep her T3 that would be a joke. What could they really take away? We could lose Jacobus and that would be no great loss on the figure department. I always hated his fat mountain man with a pole look. There are some codexes with bigger heavy support sections than our whole codex.
Anyway who cares, even if sisters come out on my birthday in May I won't be getting any since I've quit 40k.
My main objection will be the same - I suspect we'll get 10 plastic sisters for the price of 20 metal ones...
Metal sisters are priced so they won't sell any of them. I doubt they'd go through the expense of molding and casting mass-market Sisters of Battle models, and then over-price them just to spite you.
Some of you need to stop taking simple business decisions so personally. At least they still get rules. Squats and Genestealer Cult players of yesteryear would love to be able to say that.
The only thing that would interest me with a new Sisters release would (possibly) be the codex. But I keep saying this: Sisters players better be careful what they wish for. A new codex has the potential to delete existing units and create new aberrant ones. I like my Sisters army a great deal, but I do not have much confidence GW will do right by it under their current design philosophy.
I'm not sure the could delete many units and still call it a sisters codex. There are 6 HQ's, 1 troop, 2 elites, 3 heavy, and 2 fast attack. There are no non apoc formations, no detachments, no flyers, and no lords of war. If they make Celestine LOW and keep her T3 that would be a joke. What could they really take away? We could lose Jacobus and that would be no great loss on the figure department. I always hated his fat mountain man with a pole look. There are some codexes with bigger heavy support sections than our whole codex.
Repentia, battle conclaves, and pengines could easily get axed. They would also have to do something with the Exorcist kit. Which would likely mean more than just a simple port to plastic. A dual kit might make sense, but then the Exorcist is already treading that line between goofy, OTT church-tank and grimdark, slightly goofy church-tank. I'd almost be afraid of what kind of dual kit would come from a shared set of plastic frames.
The other question to be asked is if this will be a full codex or Militarum Tempestus/Harlequin "intended-as-allies" codex. To completely plasticize the army and call it a true codex army, they would need a HQ clampack, a 5-(wo)man Sisters box (to make Celestians, BSS, and Doms), a 5-(wo)man Rets box, a Seraphim box, and an Exorcist kit. That's 5 kits, and it would mean nothing completely new. That just doesn't seem realistic to me.
If you only count power armoured infantry models, you can do the whole army in 5 unique sprues. Exorcists are a 1 sprue add-on to a Rhino box, Repentia are a 1-sprue kit, Seraphim are a 1-sprue kit, and Penitent Engines are probably a 2-sprue kit. I guess you still need a clampack for Priests.
Sprue #6+7: Builds 5 Seraphim, including special weapon and sister superior options.
Voila.
Battle Sister box has 2 Sprue #1, 1 Sprue #2 and 1 Sprue #3 in. (2*£5+£5+£5+£5 = £25, same as a tac squad)
Dominion box has 1 Sprue #1 and 2 Sprue #3 in. (£5+2*£5=£15, slightly less than a tac squad but they ARE less points)
Retributor box has 1 Sprue #1 in and 2 Sprue #2 in. (£5+2*£5=£15, slightly less than a tac squad but they ARE less points)
Canoness+CCS/Celestian Squad box has 3 Sprue #3 and 1 Sprue #4 in. (3*£5+£10 = £25, same as a Veteran box)
Doesn't seem quite so daunting when you break it down like that.
Furyou Miko wrote: If you only count power armoured infantry models, you can do the whole army in 5 unique sprues. Exorcists are a 1 sprue add-on to a Rhino box, Repentia are a 1-sprue kit, Seraphim are a 1-sprue kit, and Penitent Engines are probably a 2-sprue kit. I guess you still need a clampack for Priests.
Sprue #6+7: Builds 5 Seraphim, including special weapon and sister superior options.
Voila.
Battle Sister box has 2 Sprue #1, 1 Sprue #2 and 1 Sprue #3 in. (2*£5+£5+£5+£5 = £25, same as a tac squad)
Dominion box has 1 Sprue #1 and 2 Sprue #3 in. (£5+2*£5=£15, slightly less than a tac squad but they ARE less points)
Retributor box has 1 Sprue #1 in and 2 Sprue #2 in. (£5+2*£5=£15, slightly less than a tac squad but they ARE less points)
Canoness+CCS/Celestian Squad box has 3 Sprue #3 and 1 Sprue #4 in. (3*£5+£10 = £25, same as a Veteran box)
Doesn't seem quite so daunting when you break it down like that.
My only issiue with that configuration is that a BSS box would only make a squad of 9 and not 10.
They would also have to do something with the Exorcist kit. Which would likely mean more than just a simple port to plastic. A dual kit might make sense, but then the Exorcist is already treading that line between goofy, OTT church-tank and grimdark, slightly goofy church-tank. I'd almost be afraid of what kind of dual kit would come from a shared set of plastic frames.
The original Exorcist just looked like a Whirlwind variant.
Heavy Sisters 1x Sisters core - 5 Sisters w/ Flamer, Melta, SB, HF; PW; banner
1x Sisters Heavy weapons - 2x MM, 2x HB, 2nd HF - makes Heavy Sisters
Sell just those 2 sprues and Sisters are a viable plastic army for the indefinite future. Even with Flying Nuns & HQs in metal, the army can be done in bulk, which is what matters.
If the intent is to go all-plastic, you'd want a few more sprues
- 5 Seraphim
- 3 Pengines (new sculpt)
- Exorcist upgrade for Rhino (new sculpt)
HQ is a problem, as there is no reason to create a single girl as a sprue. It will never sell enough to justify itself when people can kitbash from the core models. Possibly could do a 5 Sisters HQ squad with banners, but that just looks like the core kit.
As above, going to plastic will require all new sculpts for Exorcist. The church organ Ecorcist won't work - it's way too goofy.
ED: whoops i read "immo" and i was like: "Why? it's okay as it is..."
JohnHwangDD wrote: HQ is a problem, as there is no reason to create a single girl as a sprue. It will never sell enough to justify itself when people can kitbash from the core models. Possibly could do a 5 Sisters HQ squad with banners, but that just looks like the core kit.
Unless she gets new bad-a** rules and 5 Variants, like Space marine Captain kits, etc...
Like she has a jump pack, a bike, a Maul, Eviscerator, SS, heavy flamer, double Inferno pistols, 10 head options, 5 more CC options and 6 Special weapons.... If ya no wat i meen...
JohnHwangDD wrote: As above, going to plastic will require all new sculpts for Exorcist. The church organ Ecorcist won't work - it's way too goofy.
I like the Organ pulpit and sister
No new sculpt.
Maybe modify the tubes a bit, but it really has grown on me.... Apart from weight... that'll always mark me every time i pick it up xD
pretre wrote: A new HQ would just be a single frame sprue canoness.
There is room for a plastic Priest kit too. Between the Inquisition, Ad Mech and Sisters there are three armies that use them and could use a plastic kit.
Again, if this is a full codex, you're all forgetting that GW will need to add something new to the line. Something not in the current codex. They might also feel the need to add a unique weapon or weapon option in the Sisters box (e.g., the grav guns in the SMTac box or heavy flamer in the BATac box). You can't have all those vets sitting on existing armies just buying codexes and no new kits.
Also, hasn't GW gotten away from the whole adding a single upgrade sprue to an existing kit way of making models? I can easily see them designing a whole new Exorcist kit on two sprues rather than adding a separate frame to the Rhino kit. This prevents third party sellers breaking open boxes and selling separate frames and "stealing" sales from GW.
the_Armyman wrote: Again, if this is a full codex, you're all forgetting that GW will need to add something new to the line. Something not in the current codex. They might also feel the need to add a unique weapon or weapon option in the Sisters box (e.g., the grav guns in the SMTac box or heavy flamer in the BATac box). You can't have all those vets sitting on existing armies just buying codexes and no new kits.
Also, hasn't GW gotten away from the whole adding a single upgrade sprue to an existing kit way of making models? I can easily see them designing a whole new Exorcist kit on two sprues rather than adding a separate frame to the Rhino kit. This prevents third party sellers breaking open boxes and selling separate frames and "stealing" sales from GW.
Why? That certainly hasn't been the case in the last several Codices released. The unit lists have been trimmed, options removed.
the_Armyman wrote: Again, if this is a full codex, you're all forgetting that GW will need to add something new to the line. Something not in the current codex. They might also feel the need to add a unique weapon or weapon option in the Sisters box (e.g., the grav guns in the SMTac box or heavy flamer in the BATac box). You can't have all those vets sitting on existing armies just buying codexes and no new kits.
Also, hasn't GW gotten away from the whole adding a single upgrade sprue to an existing kit way of making models? I can easily see them designing a whole new Exorcist kit on two sprues rather than adding a separate frame to the Rhino kit. This prevents third party sellers breaking open boxes and selling separate frames and "stealing" sales from GW.
Why? That certainly hasn't been the case in the last several Codices released. The unit lists have been trimmed, options removed.
If it's a FULL codex, why wouldn't it get 4-5 new kits, including something completely new? The Space Wolves and BA did. The GKs, Necrons, and Dark Eldar didn't because their plastics are relatively new (within the last 5 years). So, I would expect that the Sisters would get the same treatment IF there's a new codex around the corner.
In the end, any conversation about Sisters is fantasyland. I'm just trying to logically extrapolate a bit.
Rippers were moving this morning and brought a couple of small tidbits (different Ripper than before, but one I've got a heavy amount of faith in):
From the Ripper Swarms:
1. May looks to be a little too soon, but I didn't get word of where it'll fit in exactly, just that May was too soon.
2. There is a format change coming for Sisters. I don't have details coming but there is a change coming. Granted if they get a real codex that's a format change, but I have a personal feeling that it may get a change in how they build an army (like how the Necrons build the Decurion).
3. Lastly there was some detail regarding the visual design being more inspired by Blanche.
Blanche did the 2nd Ed codex cover:
Now while I doubt we'll be getting Power Heels, it does make me think that we may see shorter sleeves (which would solve the sleeve issue) as well. Also we may be seeing his touch more in the Ministorum stuff (which would carry his over the top style very well).
The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
Furyou Miko wrote: The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
If we get Sisters who go faster because heels I'll live.
ClockworkZion wrote: I just find it funny that models with heels tend to have high initiative scores:
Though they have phased out a lot of the models with heels that we used to have so it's not like it's a continuing problem anymore.
You misunderstand the cause and effect, its not that models in high heels have high initiative, its that models with high initiative tend to have heels.
ClockworkZion wrote: I just find it funny that models with heels tend to have high initiative scores:
Though they have phased out a lot of the models with heels that we used to have so it's not like it's a continuing problem anymore.
You misunderstand the cause and effect, its not that models in high heels have high initiative, its that models with high initiative tend to have heels.
Not so much actually. I mean it was about a 50/50 split once, but the funny thing is that I can't think of one unit in heels that was slow, hence my stance that the heels were doing the work.
JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, Sisters should lose the heels.
None of the Sisters currently have heels, this is about the threat of them gaining them.
BoomWolf wrote:
You misunderstand the cause and effect, its not that models in high heels have high initiative, its that models with high initiative tend to have heels.
JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, Sisters should lose the heels.
None of the Sisters currently have heels, this is about the threat of them gaining them.
BoomWolf wrote:
You misunderstand the cause and effect, its not that models in high heels have high initiative, its that models with high initiative tend to have heels.
I feel like you're missing the joke.
Honestly when it comes to what they could do to the Sisters in design I can live with heels. I can't live with an armor design that looks "sexier" or involves any sort of buttfloss. My suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
MWHistorian wrote: Worst. Cover. Ever.
I like Blanche as an artist, especially his deamon stuff, but that cover.....
Well, his Sister look bad-ass. No, not that big strange thing with bra-skull, that is obviously not a Sister. I am talking of the heavy-bolter-toting badass in the rear.
MWHistorian wrote: Worst. Cover. Ever.
I like Blanche as an artist, especially his deamon stuff, but that cover.....
Well, his Sister look bad-ass. No, not that big strange thing with bra-skull, that is obviously not a Sister. I am talking of the heavy-bolter-toting badass in the rear.
Spoiler:
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to mention the boob-skulls. The heavy bolter chick is definitely epic though!
Furyou Miko wrote: The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
If we get Sisters who go faster because heels I'll live.
I live in New York and have seen plenty of folks outright run in heels. Anyone who can run in high-heels clearly has super-human agility. As such, I propose a rule which says Power Heels confers "Assault Vehicle" to anything transporting units from the Adepta Sororitas NewDex. There... I also just fixed Repentia. :-p
Furyou Miko wrote: The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
If we get Sisters who go faster because heels I'll live.
I live in New York and have seen plenty of folks outright run in heels. Anyone who can run in high-heels clearly has super-human agility. As such, I propose a rule which says Power Heels confers "Assault Vehicle" to anything transporting units from the Adepta Sororitas NewDex. There... I also just fixed Repentia. :-p
Repentia currently wear wear practical shoes. Based on the fluff they should be wearing rags or barefoot instead.
Furyou Miko wrote: The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
If we get Sisters who go faster because heels I'll live.
I live in New York and have seen plenty of folks outright run in heels. Anyone who can run in high-heels clearly has super-human agility. As such, I propose a rule which says Power Heels confers "Assault Vehicle" to anything transporting units from the Adepta Sororitas NewDex. There... I also just fixed Repentia. :-p
Repentia currently wear wear practical shoes. Based on the fluff they should be wearing rags or barefoot instead.
I think that they actually do have rags tied to their legs.
Furyou Miko wrote: The thing to remember here is that John Blanche has a high heel fetish.
Not a sexual one, an artistic one.
You should look in Visions of Heresy or one of this artbooks. They're full of people in high heels. Men. Women. Weird aliens. Robots.
Fortunately the sculptors who turned his art into miniatures also realised this at the time and toned down the... Blanche-ness. Hopefully, the current generation will realise that this was deliberate as well and... well, if we end up with Sisters in power heels? I'll need some... time to grieve.
If we get Sisters who go faster because heels I'll live.
I live in New York and have seen plenty of folks outright run in heels. Anyone who can run in high-heels clearly has super-human agility. As such, I propose a rule which says Power Heels confers "Assault Vehicle" to anything transporting units from the Adepta Sororitas NewDex. There... I also just fixed Repentia. :-p
Repentia currently wear wear practical shoes. Based on the fluff they should be wearing rags or barefoot instead.
I think that they actually do have rags tied to their legs.
pretre wrote: This thread is bad and should feel bad. I click, knowing nothing good will come of it, and every time I am disappointed.
So I bring news of "It's not in May, as that's too soon", "new models with more of a Blanche feel" and that there is a change to the format to the army and you were disappointed?
Sorry I couldn't bring you anything more than that, it's the best I've got right now.
JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, Sisters should lose the heels.
None of the Sisters currently have heels, this is about the threat of them gaining them.
BoomWolf wrote:
You misunderstand the cause and effect, its not that models in high heels have high initiative, its that models with high initiative tend to have heels.
I feel like you're missing the joke.
I feel YOU are missing the joke if you managed to take that comment seriously
MWHistorian wrote: Worst. Cover. Ever. I like Blanche as an artist, especially his deamon stuff, but that cover.....
Well, his Sister look bad-ass. No, not that big strange thing with bra-skull, that is obviously not a Sister. I am talking of the heavy-bolter-toting badass in the rear. [snip]
He's right though, if you look at it this way, they look really cool: (replacement to soothe burning eyes from Deviant-Art)
I like the Boa Hancock bling holder in the back too....
I think the current graphical designs for sisters are fine. They're still human... they're rocking power armor, but still normal proportions (and GW can't seem to decide just how big an Astartes is LOL).
Aside from the pointless chest armor plate, their overall design works. An effort to make the faces a tad less... masculine would work wonders for new sculpts (take a hint from the DE sculptors).
Either way. still like them in the fluff and on the table.
Random aside, but does anyone feel like any ForgeWorld Sisters stuff might get "promoted" to a core Codex/kit if we get a new Sisters book?
I was thinking that most everyone feels comfortable with the Avenger flyer as a "good fit" that helps Sisters out. I wonder if we could see that one pull a "Stompa" and get moved into the main range?
I know, I know... we'd have much higher priority releases first, but if we're wish-listing, a Repressor and Avenger in hard-plastic would be really cool.
ncshooter426 wrote: I think the current graphical designs for sisters are fine. They're still human... they're rocking power armor, but still normal proportions (and GW can't seem to decide just how big an Astartes is LOL).
Aside from the pointless chest armor plate, their overall design works. An effort to make the faces a tad less... masculine would work wonders for new sculpts (take a hint from the DE sculptors).
Either way. still like them in the fluff and on the table.
I think a platemail style chest would work rather well with them...
JohnHwangDD wrote: A platemail style chest, meaning what? Conical steel pasties over a chain shirt? Might as well go with the skull pasties on the 2E cover.
Or, perhaps something like this?
Considering how well it worked for an absolutely terrible freemium game, I think something like that would do quite well to boost Sisters sales.
Having breast sections in a breast plate is a structural and tactical failure.If this was accurate, females would wear pretty much the same armor as males, perhaps with a small jut (not individual) section to accommodate bust.
But the world isn't run by accuracy, and people want tits -- especially space tits.
ncshooter426 wrote: Having breast sections in a breast plate is a structural and tactical failure.If this was accurate, females would wear pretty much the same armor as males, perhaps with a small jut (not individual) section to accommodate bust.
But the world isn't run by accuracy, and people want tits -- especially space tits.
Seriously, I wish we could stop having the argument already. There are no winners, only thread locks when it comes up. The only winning move is to not play.
If GW dose do some changes to the SoB boob plate, this would probably be one of the better compromises because it still has that female stylings and you can still keep a lot of the specific stylings that are iconic to the SoB. Like the robes and the corset piece.
JohnHwangDD 630861 7582606 cfae4669 26a49728d41224d18c7508.jpg wrote:If you were an American, you'd know the girl is Kate Upton and that she just featured in a ridiculous commercial for the super bowl.
Spoiler:
Thats pretty awesome
Warhammer 40,000 Summer Campaign this year:
Sororitas and Space marines are the Imperial side
Thats even more awesome - the Shield of Baal had great Sororitas stuff (except rules)
I wouldn't necessarily see this as a good thing... If sisters are 'the imperial side' the same way they were in Shield of Baal, we'd have gotten our hopes up for nothing.
Oh, who am I kidding, that didn't even happen in the first place
Shield of Baal (and the lack of rumors for Sisters getting models in this release) are why I'm not counting on them getting a release with this set. That said, it's not impossible that something could come from it anyways, just that it wouldn't fit the pattern thus far.
I don't really think you can claim that, gasdg... the initial Exorcist is the first one GW made, which would be the Forge World kit. Anything you make at home may be older, but it can't ever claim to be an official design.
Furyou Miko wrote: The initial Exorcist is the first one GW made, which would be the Forge World kit. Anything you make at home may be older, but it can't ever claim to be an official design.
Thank you.
----------------
To this day I can't figure out why the Exorcist isn't just a Whirlwind Kit with and Adepta Sororitas Add-On sprue.
nightfury wrote:
I can gurantee plastic kits for adeptus sororitas will be released within the next 18 months.. the molds are finished and production is already underway
Automatically Appended Next Post:
adamsouza wrote: To this day I can't figure out why the Exorcist isn't just a Whirlwind Kit with and Adepta Sororitas Add-On sprue.
Because bling.
Seriously though, the Sisters are supposed to be a bit over the top.
I said this in news/rumors... but man... when is it ok to get excited? :-p
I can't help but feel that the more smoke there is, the greater the likelihood of fire, and all that. This stands as the most adamant rumor from a fairly reliable source yet, and dammit... I just can't help but get really excited.
I already own more generic bolter Battle Sisters than I will ever field in a single game, but I would love to fill out my special weapons with lots of new models.
Still nothing all that substantial... But the recent source claiming it apparently being a reliable one has me hopeful.
It seems to also fit in with what Jes Goodwin last said on the matter last July, which was basically that they haven't done anything yet but seemingly hinting that they will.
adamsouza wrote: To this day I can't figure out why the Exorcist isn't just a Whirlwind Kit with and Adepta Sororitas Add-On sprue.
Because bling.
Seriously though, the Sisters are supposed to be a bit over the top.
Damn right.
I remember somebody (sorry, can't recall who) insightfully saying that the difference between the Excorcist and the Whirlwind summed up the differences in style between the two armies.
Marines are about taking something that was practical (back in the glorious enlightened atheist days where the SCS were made, or when the technology behind the power armor, etc, was understood), and adding useless bling and stuff because of obscurantism. The Sisters are about taking whatever the obscurantist Ecclesiarchy find cool, and throwing tons of Imperial credit in its general direction until it start to somehow work.
Troike wrote: Still nothing all that substantial... But the recent source claiming it apparently being a reliable one has me hopeful.
It seems to also fit in with what Jes Goodwin last said on the matter last July, which was basically that they haven't done anything yet but seemingly hinting that they will.
adamsouza wrote: To this day I can't figure out why the Exorcist isn't just a Whirlwind Kit with and Adepta Sororitas Add-On sprue.
Because bling.
Seriously though, the Sisters are supposed to be a bit over the top.
Damn right.
I remember somebody (sorry, can't recall who) insightfully saying that the difference between the Excorcist and the Whirlwind summed up the differences in style between the two armies.
Am I mistaken or isn't there actually a SoB Whirlwind? IIRC it has more cylinder-like rocket pods, maybe an earlier or more ornate pattern than the Astartes one.
So will we see a lightning fighter with this release? That's the real ticket you know. Everyone could use those, IG as well as SoB, Marines could even use them as Naval provided CAS, the possibilities are endless!
You are correct, it seems as though there are two patterns of Exorcist tank. One haS a MRLS and the other has the Pipe Organ set-up. I like the latter better as it is far more characterful than a whirlwind with round pods.
Don't get me wrong, the organs look cool, but they shoot missles out towards the back of the Exorcist that must then hook around in mid air to zip toward the target in front of the Exorcist.
The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
xraytango wrote: You are correct, it seems as though there are two patterns of Exorcist tank. One haS a MRLS and the other has the Pipe Organ set-up. I like the latter better as it is far more characterful than a whirlwind with round pods.
Imperial Armour Volume 2 refers to the "Pipe Organ" one as the Prioris Pattern, made at the Mars forge and thus are more highly venerated as they originate closer to the Holy Throne, and the "MLRS" variant as the Sanctorum Pattern built at Ophelia VII, which are more common but not as "holy".
adamsouza wrote: The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
If you take the rules literally, there is an arc of fire that extends at 45 degree around the cannon, so the exorcist can only fire at flyers that are extremely close to it… and without the anti-air rule.
adamsouza wrote: Don't get me wrong, the organs look cool, but they shoot missles out towards the back of the Exorcist that must then hook around in mid air to zip toward the target in front of the Exorcist.
The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
It does require LoS, but it doesn't mean we can't assume it arc fires anyways. I mean who doesn't love some holy rain of fiery death?
adamsouza wrote: The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
If you take the rules literally, there is an arc of fire that extends at 45 degree around the cannon, so the exorcist can only fire at flyers that are extremely close to it… and without the anti-air rule.
I like the FAQ we had better instead. Draw LoS from any of the pipes. Problem solved in a simple eloquent manner.
And never doubt the power of an Exorcist snap-firing at an Aircraft. I crashed a Doom Scythe today the first time I shot at it that way (6 shots, 1 hit, 1 pen, failed Jink, Immobilized, rolled a 1, it crashed).
ClockworkZion wrote: I like the FAQ we had better instead. Draw LoS from any of the pipes. Problem solved in a simple eloquent manner.
It does not over-ride the arc of fire thingy, it just allows you to choose which pipe to measure it from, iirc.
ClockworkZion wrote: And never doubt the power of an Exorcist snap-firing at an Aircraft. I crashed a Doom Scythe today the first time I shot at it that way (6 shots, 1 hit, 1 pen, failed Jink, Immobilized, rolled a 1, it crashed).
Well, in other word, you got pretty damn lucky: getting 6 shots, pen, he/she failed jink, getting it immobilized, and he/she rolling a one!
ClockworkZion wrote: I like the FAQ we had better instead. Draw LoS from any of the pipes. Problem solved in a simple eloquent manner.
It does not over-ride the arc of fire thingy, it just allows you to choose which pipe to measure it from, iirc.
ClockworkZion wrote: And never doubt the power of an Exorcist snap-firing at an Aircraft. I crashed a Doom Scythe today the first time I shot at it that way (6 shots, 1 hit, 1 pen, failed Jink, Immobilized, rolled a 1, it crashed).
Well, in other word, you got pretty damn lucky: getting 6 shots, pen, he/she failed jink, getting it immobilized, and he/she rolling a one!
If we want to argue it needs to be aimed up then you'd be arguing an unneeded nerf on an army that really doesn't deserve that. If you TFG who wants to argue that I'd be that person who wouldn't play you. That simple.
And yes, I got lucky, but I wasn't saying I wasn't. I was just saying that you shouldn't underestimate how useful that can be.
adamsouza wrote: Don't get me wrong, the organs look cool, but they shoot missles out towards the back of the Exorcist that must then hook around in mid air to zip toward the target in front of the Exorcist.
The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
It does require LoS, but it doesn't mean we can't assume it arc fires anyways. I mean who doesn't love some holy rain of fiery death?
adamsouza wrote: The Exorcist isn't even indirect fire is it ? Doesn't it require line of sight to it's target ?
If you take the rules literally, there is an arc of fire that extends at 45 degree around the cannon, so the exorcist can only fire at flyers that are extremely close to it… and without the anti-air rule.
I like the FAQ we had better instead. Draw LoS from any of the pipes. Problem solved in a simple eloquent manner.
And never doubt the power of an Exorcist snap-firing at an Aircraft. I crashed a Doom Scythe today the first time I shot at it that way (6 shots, 1 hit, 1 pen, failed Jink, Immobilized, rolled a 1, it crashed).
I took out a Stormraven in a similar way recently. Got 5 shots off with 2 hits which both penetrated with 2 immobilization results. The second one caused the crash and burn result. This was after the Stormraven unloaded everything it had on my exo's front armour.
ClockworkZion wrote: If we want to argue it needs to be aimed up then you'd be arguing an unneeded nerf on an army that really doesn't deserve that.
IMO, *both* points are true:
1. the current LOS upward-firing Exorcist is a *TERRIBLE* design from a rules POV *and* a modeling POV. In many ways, the Exorcist is the distillation of everything that is wrong with the Sisters: over-complicated nonsense rules, super-expensive models, old & obsolete metal models.
2. Sisters do not need any nerfs, but it is clear that no thought was given by GW toward what the Exorcist should be based then current model for the initial rules, or the latest rules based on the current model.
Moving any future Exorcist to a 2-in-1 kit with an Indirect (only) option and a Direct (only) alternative would solve the problem neatly. As it is, it's just a mess.
ClockworkZion wrote: If we want to argue it needs to be aimed up then you'd be arguing an unneeded nerf on an army that really doesn't deserve that.
IMO, *both* points are true:
1. the current LOS upward-firing Exorcist is a *TERRIBLE* design from a rules POV *and* a modeling POV. In many ways, the Exorcist is the distillation of everything that is wrong with the Sisters: over-complicated nonsense rules, super-expensive models, old & obsolete metal models.
2. Sisters do not need any nerfs, but it is clear that no thought was given by GW toward what the Exorcist should be based then current model for the initial rules, or the latest rules based on the current model.
Moving any future Exorcist to a 2-in-1 kit with an Indirect (only) option and a Direct (only) alternative would solve the problem neatly. As it is, it's just a mess.
hmm - I love the Exorcist model - it seems so in character - that's why I have 4
Not had a problem with the rules before but then don't play competitively.
So the sm/sisters release is actually gk/sisters, right? Since GW loves to get a good troll in on sisters players, and we all know what happens when sisters and grey Knights hang out together.
Bearing in mind the rumours of Mark IX Power Armour, maybe the new plastic Sisters rumours are because the Mk IX Space marine kit comes with some female heads.
Bearing in mind the rumours of Mark IX Power Armour, maybe the new plastic Sisters rumours are because the Mk IX Space marine kit comes with some female heads.
But then people might use them on marine armies! And that' there is heresy!
ClockworkZion wrote: If we want to argue it needs to be aimed up then you'd be arguing an unneeded nerf on an army that really doesn't deserve that.
I am not arguing it needs to be aimed up. I am arguing that applying the rules as written by GW would be so catastrophically bad that it would make it completely, utterly useless. Nobody will ever do that. But it shows how GW is bad at writing rules.
Why on earth would I like my exorcist to just NOT WORK AT ALL? I like the model, and it is quite good as is. What I would like is for GW to put up something to give a clear explanation on this field of fire thing. Or possibly make the exorcist indirect fire, or anti-air (but still with an extra rule to mention no field of fire non-sense).
Found this earlier this morning through some digging around and nearly choked on my cereal:
Tzen wrote:Please take this information with a huge wad of salt. I was really tempted not to post this at all, because a lot of the time rumours are just so wrong its laughable.
I was sent this information over several e-mails and this is the best I can do to put the releases into some chronological order. It could be very wrong.
Here's some bits of info:
- There's mark 9 power armored marines on the way.
- Sister of battle are shortly after summer, just after WFB 9th ed.
- Horus Heresy is about to become very big, with Games Workshop building on the success of Forge Worlds game. This includes new plastic kits for Warhammer 30,000.
Current release schedule to my knowledge looks some thing like this:
Harlequins.
Archaon End times - Bloodthirster and Khorne Chaos Warrior kits.
Khorne Chaos space marine supplement.
Adeptus Mechanicus.
30K box set during the "red week" in May - This is a period of time staff members cannot take time off from the shops.
Some follow up releases to support the new rules set for 30k.
Then WFB 9th rules.
Horus Heresy releases
Mark 9 Power armoured marines.
WFB Releases for the Empire and Chaos - This includes the starter kit for WFB 9th ed.
Sister of Battle (Actually a codex: Ecclesiarchy, but not called that).
This is by my own admission just guess work based on what I have been e-mailed. I don't know if the order is correct or not. Or even if it is complete crap. I just thought it would be nice to share. This is an experiment, I don't normally post anything without visible proof.
So a couple more claims made supporting a Sisters release it seems.
Tzen wrote:Please take this information with a huge wad of salt. I was really tempted not to post this at all, because a lot of the time rumours are just so wrong its laughable.
I was sent this information over several e-mails and this is the best I can do to put the releases into some chronological order. It could be very wrong. […] This is by my own admission just guess work based on what I have been e-mailed. I don't know if the order is correct or not. Or even if it is complete crap. I just thought it would be nice to share. This is an experiment, I don't normally post anything without visible proof.
So a couple more claims made supporting a Sisters release it seems.
And the stuff stated by Clockwork seems to be rumors that match up with whats being said already this year such as Admech, the new Power Armor, and the HH Plastic box that just came out as a rumor.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: The current 'dex is actually damn close to perfect given the limited model range, the only units in need of a buff are Canoness, Penitent Engines, Repentia and Celestians (which, thankfully, aren't key units so the Dex functions quite fine).
Well, the sad thing is, making one's HQ can be pretty fun, and very powerful (even if very expensive) characters are always nice to play with. We are stuck with terrible HQ.
And there's no excuse for having Penitent Engines and Repentia being so bad they're useless. It's a small dex and they still couldn't manage internal balance.
Oddly, when I use my Sisters of Battle against my mom, Penitent Engines and Repentia are 2 of the top 3 units she devotes excessive firepower to destroying. The top 1 unit in all cases is a Battle Conclave, which is understandable given how badly my Battle Conclave slaughtered her big unit of Honor Guard in the first game with the 2011 WD dex in 5e (back when power swords just ignored armor saves instead of being AP3, so nowadays against the Honor Guard I'd be better off bringing a whole bunch of Arco-Flagellants to force a mass of saves, than I would the DCAs).
I think she got frightened of the Repentia when I described the fluff about them carrying enormous chainswords that can cut tanks in half. And she's frightened of the Penitent Engines because when they get into melee with pretty much anything she uses, that unit tends to get wiped out.
Battle Conclaves (with two Priests especially) are mini-terrors.
That aside the current version of Repentia are really not that good. Interesting in theory but less so in practice.
I could see Penitent Engines mostly working because of target prioritization mainly, but I'd need to get some assembled and so far the only method I've heard that works consistently is solder.
Well, Hope and Faith are a powerful force, and I have both (much to my misfortune!) when it comes to a possible new Sisters of Battle codex.
A couple things for me:
1. Militarum Tempestus: GW has shown that they are comfortable releasing a codex with only what, 2-3 units in it? I could point at Imperial Knights with only 1 unit as well. I'd be happy if all they gave me was a Sister Superior, a Sister Troops, Seraphim, and an Immolator. 4 unit entries, all in plastic.
2. I believe the Sisters of Battle are the only remaining army from 5th/6th that has not been updated outside of White Dwarf? GW either needs to drop them entirely, or support them with some new stuff. See point one above. If GW is willing to make a whole new army out of nothing, then Sisters of Battle should be a no-brainer for them.
Only time will tell, and I will still have hope and faith that GW will come out with new Sisters of Battle worthy to be played on the table.
I'm hoping for sisters this year, but at the same time I tend to suspect we're seeing a lot of rumors of them more because with all the other armies handled it's a "decent guess" more then anything reliable.
Hastings confirmed that as far as he knows no Sisters this year. Doesn't mean the thread is dead, it just means if they're coming he doesn't know of them yet.
ClockworkZion wrote: Battle Conclaves (with two Priests especially) are mini-terrors.
That aside the current version of Repentia are really not that good. Interesting in theory but less so in practice.
I could see Penitent Engines mostly working because of target prioritization mainly, but I'd need to get some assembled and so far the only method I've heard that works consistently is solder.
Penitent Engines are the most frustrating miniatures I've ever tried to build. I had to take a break of a few weeks after my first attempt so I wouldn't hurl the hunk of metal at the opposite wall (which had a window). Then when I came back, I mixed up a large amount of modelling putty and used it, along with a decent helping of superglue, to hold the parts together. Definitely a 0/10 for attractiveness as a miniature with the blobs of putty sticking out everywhere, but there's only been one part that's ever broken off (the torso separated from the legs at one point on one of my two).
However this is kinda off-topic so I'll shut up now.
ClockworkZion wrote: Found this earlier this morning through some digging around and nearly choked on my cereal:
Tzen wrote:Please take this information with a huge wad of salt. I was really tempted not to post this at all, because a lot of the time rumours are just so wrong its laughable.
I was sent this information over several e-mails and this is the best I can do to put the releases into some chronological order. It could be very wrong.
Here's some bits of info:
- There's mark 9 power armored marines on the way.
- Sister of battle are shortly after summer, just after WFB 9th ed.
- Horus Heresy is about to become very big, with Games Workshop building on the success of Forge Worlds game. This includes new plastic kits for Warhammer 30,000.
Current release schedule to my knowledge looks some thing like this:
Harlequins.
Archaon End times - Bloodthirster and Khorne Chaos Warrior kits.
Khorne Chaos space marine supplement.
Adeptus Mechanicus.
30K box set during the "red week" in May - This is a period of time staff members cannot take time off from the shops.
Some follow up releases to support the new rules set for 30k.
Then WFB 9th rules.
Horus Heresy releases
Mark 9 Power armoured marines.
WFB Releases for the Empire and Chaos - This includes the starter kit for WFB 9th ed.
Sister of Battle (Actually a codex: Ecclesiarchy, but not called that).
This is by my own admission just guess work based on what I have been e-mailed. I don't know if the order is correct or not. Or even if it is complete crap. I just thought it would be nice to share. This is an experiment, I don't normally post anything without visible proof.
So a couple more claims made supporting a Sisters release it seems.
So, i have some additional info for this (Again, take as you will):
- I also heard just yesterday evening that the successful 30K HH range from Forgeworld is porting over to GW and 40k.
They will be releasing the skitarii (most common, basic admech Unit - Forgeworld don't have them) with that release.
- "New power armour coming" I heard that as MK2-3-4 etc coming out with the HH stuff (Box of Heresy Marines with all the armours basically)
- Not much word at all on sisters... But most likely in Fall, after / during / with the Chaos box set we've been hearing about.
Some other good things coming but i've not heard anything about this last one so i'd leave it as the above.
Not as positive for Sisters as i'd hoped, but as long as the stories keep coming we'll probably know more after this new "30K big jump" coming up....
Sisters do have a digital codex for 6th edition but in that have no new models, and the rules in places are worse than previous versions (seriously, how do you make Repentia worse? :( )
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters do have a digital codex for 6th edition but in that have no new models, and the rules in places are worse than previous versions (seriously, how do you make Repentia worse? :( )
I guess you could cut down those Eviscerators into chainswords.
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters do have a digital codex for 6th edition but in that have no new models, and the rules in places are worse than previous versions (seriously, how do you make Repentia worse? :( )
I guess you could cut down those Eviscerators into chainswords.
I was complaining more about the change from 5th to 6th where they lost FnP. If they went from Eviscerators to Heavy Chainswords (like one person recommended) then I'd be pretty mad. They were one of the only good close combat units we could bring and we don't need to make them worse.
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters do have a digital codex for 6th edition but in that have no new models, and the rules in places are worse than previous versions (seriously, how do you make Repentia worse? :( )
I guess you could cut down those Eviscerators into chainswords.
I was complaining more about the change from 5th to 6th where they lost FnP. If they went from Eviscerators to Heavy Chainswords (like one person recommended) then I'd be pretty mad. They were one of the only good close combat units we could bring and we don't need to make them worse.
You are right we don't. I was just saying it can always get worse. Repentia have always been one fo those units that don't quite see much use as they don't have much of one in a regular game.
The issue with Repentia is loading them with rules and making them pay for all of that chrome. T3 Sv- Repentia cannot cost T4 Sv3+ Space Marine points, so anything over 12 points is too much.
Bring the points down to the 10-12 ppm range, and tailor the rules to the points cost, and they'll be fine.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The issue with Repentia is loading them with rules and making them pay for all of that chrome. T3 Sv- Repentia cannot cost T4 Sv3+ Space Marine points, so anything over 12 points is too much.
Bring the points down to the 10-12 ppm range, and tailor the rules to the points cost, and they'll be fine.
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
I don't have much faith in any of these rumors suggestign they come out. I really can't at this point. I don't want to invest myself in that they migth be true only to be wrong (again!). I would love for them to be out, becuase at this point any nonsense about them lacking the ability ot make them rings false at this point looking at Wyches, Harlequins, and other models of their ilk. I'm ready to buy a ton of models that would receive my undivided attention painting them.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The issue with Repentia is loading them with rules and making them pay for all of that chrome. T3 Sv- Repentia cannot cost T4 Sv3+ Space Marine points, so anything over 12 points is too much.
Bring the points down to the 10-12 ppm range, and tailor the rules to the points cost, and they'll be fine.
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
I don't have much faith in any of these rumors suggestign they come out. I really can't at this point. I don't want to invest myself in that they migth be true only to be wrong (again!). I would love for them to be out, becuase at this point any nonsense about them lacking the ability ot make them rings false at this point looking at Wyches, Harlequins, and other models of their ilk. I'm ready to buy a ton of models that would receive my undivided attention painting them.
I agree that Repentia are a problem unit, and would prefer to see them around 10 pts. They are an assault unit (no guns), and they hit pretty hard with S6 AP2, but you are correct that they're not really good at it due to their fragility. 5++ "Emperor Protects" / FNP / "Faith" save would help, but it won't solve the fundamental viability issues of a naked human armed with nothing but a chainsword.
Also, the technical ability to make Sisters has been demonstrated years ago, with the Shadow Warriors / Sisters of Avelorn and other cloaked Elf models. If GW can make those RnF models for WFB, they can make Sisters of Battle in plastic. It's always been a business case of selling a niche army. Harlequins getting a "Codex" kinda puts the lie to that, though in fairness, I think the old Harlequin models predate the 2E Sisters models.
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
You say that, but the thing is, it only takes on average, 3 or 4 Repentia to kill a knight in a single turn.There are very few things that hit as hard as Repentia in close combat, and the fact that when Repentia charge they get four attacks each - five with the Sacred Standard in range - it really doesn't matter that only 2 will get to swing on average from a squad of 10 assaulting, because those two models hit harder than most full-strength squads.
Hmm.... and Raging Heroes just recently announced a bump to its Order of Eternal Mercy line. I wonder if GW has finally realized that, yes, there is competition in the marketplace.
Honestly, keep them the way that they are, but give them Angelic Visage (re-roll saves, fluff justification being that they're throwing themselves entirely into the Emperor's service) and FNP 5+. My main problem with them is that they just die in droves, even when they're doing what they're supposed to (eg, killed when their transport blows up, killed by overwatch, killed before they can strike in combat, etc). Re-rollable 6++ saves and 5+ FNP at least make them a little more reliable, while still being relatively fragile.
Reliable rumormongers are rated on what they know, not what they don't know. They might not know anything about the SoB, it doesn't mean SoB aren't happening. This rumor started partially because someone said they were spotted going into production. GW has in the past started on production of something then sat on it for months and months before releasing it. IF SoB are a full release with pretty much every unit in the army getting new models then production maybe a longer more drawn out build up before the release.Their rumors only go out so many months and if SoB fall outside that window these guys might not have heard about and more likely GW has set a true firm date for SoB's release.
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
You say that, but the thing is, it only takes on average, 3 or 4 Repentia to kill a knight in a single turn.There are very few things that hit as hard as Repentia in close combat, and the fact that when Repentia charge they get four attacks each - five with the Sacred Standard in range - it really doesn't matter that only 2 will get to swing on average from a squad of 10 assaulting, because those two models hit harder than most full-strength squads.
I won't deny the strength of Repentia in melee, the problem is we're overpaying for that strength and then not getting any durability for it.
Also being able to run blobs of up to 20 would be nice just to make them better at having enough bodies to get places. And maybe give them their 5th ed AoF as a special rule that works automatically.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So with the 'reliable' rumor people shooting down a SoB release, is this thread dead?
I would think so. But the discussion about Repentia/Celestians/Penengines could go on in its own somewhere else.
Disagree, the "no Sisters" responses have been "I don't know of Sisters getting an update" not "there is a 100% chance there is no update coming". Heck it's well established anything more than 3 months out (maybe less) can change faster than you can say "heresy".
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
You say that, but the thing is, it only takes on average, 3 or 4 Repentia to kill a knight in a single turn.There are very few things that hit as hard as Repentia in close combat, and the fact that when Repentia charge they get four attacks each - five with the Sacred Standard in range - it really doesn't matter that only 2 will get to swing on average from a squad of 10 assaulting, because those two models hit harder than most full-strength squads.
I won't deny the strength of Repentia in melee, the problem is we're overpaying for that strength and then not getting any durability for it.
Also being able to run blobs of up to 20 would be nice just to make them better at having enough bodies to get places. And maybe give them their 5th ed AoF as a special rule that works automatically..
Blob of 20 WOULD be nice, but I disagree about them overpaying what they get.
At least, not overpaying by much.
They fall about as quickly as cultists, yes. but costs considered, they are probably the hardest-hitting unit in the game, meaning the excel at taking out things that are durable yet offer little to no fight (like tanks or even most walkers) or just going a "you killed more, but I won the cost game" path against superelites (centurions, MCs, etc)
The would be just fine if they were a BIT cheaper, or tougher-to make it slightly less economical to nuke them, or make it take slightly more effort.
But not much. as they are, at 11-12 points or with a simple FnP they would be just fine.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So with the 'reliable' rumor people shooting down a SoB release, is this thread dead?
I would think so. But the discussion about Repentia/Celestians/Penengines could go on in its own somewhere else.
Disagree, the "no Sisters" responses have been "I don't know of Sisters getting an update" not "there is a 100% chance there is no update coming". Heck it's well established anything more than 3 months out (maybe less) can change faster than you can say "heresy".
True there.
And I must say the recet news about "GW 30k" sounds awefully fishy. I fail to see the gain there, any 30k "basic unit" they can do will just serve to bite into FW profits, as they already sell said models.
Armies like admech or genecult are well within reason (FW have yet to make a full admech range after all-the classic redcoats at the very least are missing, and 40k admech is most likely not the same thing as 40k admech) (clut is an old classic, but no FW or GW currectly represents them ATM, even with allies) but 30k marines?
We got bazilion 30k marine kits by FW already, and they are going to get even more for the following HH books.
If somehow GW does 30k marines before sisters get a real rework, I'd be shocked by the level of stupidity.
Even their dumbest moves were not THAT dumb.
Even at 12 points they still won't thave much of a use. Really its not about the cost so much as to what is their purpose really? They seem to be aimed at assult but they are too slow at Initiative 1 and have almost no defenses to speak of. What kind of assault unit is that? They cannot really perform except perhaps once a game.Even a weaponless Dreadnaught can take 2 or 3 of them out before they can do anything about it. Anyway enough about Repentia. I have digressed considerably.
You say that, but the thing is, it only takes on average, 3 or 4 Repentia to kill a knight in a single turn.There are very few things that hit as hard as Repentia in close combat, and the fact that when Repentia charge they get four attacks each - five with the Sacred Standard in range - it really doesn't matter that only 2 will get to swing on average from a squad of 10 assaulting, because those two models hit harder than most full-strength squads.
I won't deny the strength of Repentia in melee, the problem is we're overpaying for that strength and then not getting any durability for it.
Also being able to run blobs of up to 20 would be nice just to make them better at having enough bodies to get places. And maybe give them their 5th ed AoF as a special rule that works automatically..
Blob of 20 WOULD be nice, but I disagree about them overpaying what they get.
At least, not overpaying by much.
They fall about as quickly as cultists, yes. but costs considered, they are probably the hardest-hitting unit in the game, meaning the excel at taking out things that are durable yet offer little to no fight (like tanks or even most walkers) or just going a "you killed more, but I won the cost game" path against superelites (centurions, MCs, etc)
The would be just fine if they were a BIT cheaper, or tougher-to make it slightly less economical to nuke them, or make it take slightly more effort.
But not much. as they are, at 11-12 points or with a simple FnP they would be just fine.
I'd be happier for that than 14ppm with no FnP and just a 6++.
True there.
And I must say the recet news about "GW 30k" sounds awefully fishy. I fail to see the gain there, any 30k "basic unit" they can do will just serve to bite into FW profits, as they already sell said models.
Armies like admech or genecult are well within reason (FW have yet to make a full admech range after all-the classic redcoats at the very least are missing, and 40k admech is most likely not the same thing as 40k admech) (clut is an old classic, but no FW or GW currectly represents them ATM, even with allies) but 30k marines?
We got bazilion 30k marine kits by FW already, and they are going to get even more for the following HH books.
If somehow GW does 30k marines before sisters get a real rework, I'd be shocked by the level of stupidity.
Even their dumbest moves were not THAT dumb.
The 30k stuff isn't just plastic 30k models, it's a game that'll be out for 6 months and then the models relegated to their own line to replace LotR/Hobbit on store shelves. If anything it'll take a load off of FW who has too much on their plate with the Heresy by taking the core model range and both making it more accessible (something that can never hurt, especially when Marines are involved) and letting FW hand all the specialist stuff (characters, legion specific things, vehicles and so forth). It's all the same company and sales at the end of the day all go the same place but we'd be crazy to think GW wouldn't want to cash in on this, especially since the new CEO apparently is a big 30k player.
Also the 30k rumors have 3 big name rumor backers right now so I'd be more surprised if it didn't happen.
Repentia have to get through a very shooty edition, overwatch and they go last in combat. The chances of two getting to swing against a competent opponent are next to zero and the chances that they'll earn their points back are even lower.
Believe me, I tried to get them to work but my opponents wouldn't let them close enough to their big targets. Over ten games my Repentia's body count is 2 dreadnaughts, 1 hellbrute, 4 Rhino's, 2 terminators and 1 chaos space marine. After that I put them on the shelf and scrapped my idea of a 'fluffy army.'
MWHistorian wrote: Repentia have to get through a very shooty edition, overwatch and they go last in combat. The chances of two getting to swing against a competent opponent are next to zero and the chances that they'll earn their points back are even lower.
Believe me, I tried to get them to work but my opponents wouldn't let them close enough to their big targets. Over ten games my Repentia's body count is 2 dreadnaughts, 1 hellbrute, 4 Rhino's, 2 terminators and 1 chaos space marine. After that I put them on the shelf and scrapped my idea of a 'fluffy army.'
In 5th edition I could reliably roll Repentia through about half my opponent's army once I got into combat and as long as I wasn't caught outside of it, during 6th I was able do pretty well up until the last update. That said the one game I did get them into combat this edition I nuked a squad of Nobs and their Warboss (all of which had FnP) in a single assault causing my opponent to immediately divert two other units at them in response. To be able to put that amount of fear of a unit into someone in a single assault is hilarious and something I've only ever accomplished with Repentia.
They still aren't that good though. They're all glass and very little cannon.
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Nevelon wrote: Didn’t they used to have a rule where they still got to swing, even if they were killed?
That was their 5th Edition Act of Faith. I wish it was a permanent rule for them just to make up for how squishy they are and how late they go in combat.
Sooo.newest natfka rumor rated at 4-5 stars by him ("extremely accurate" says the upcoming admech is a purely 40k creation, specifically the Skitarii subfaction.
He also gives a quote from the codex referring directly to using it in 40k, who might be faked, but natfka seems to have faith in the dude.
Sits well with the old rumors that said necrons->quins->skitarii->sisters (thought now it seems there might also be a khorne and/or
Hopefully it will remain that way.
As for repentia, their gratest strength is not in the damage they do, but in the damage they MIGHT do.
People in this game, especially in dakka, seem to understimate the effect of anything that is not directly killing, tanking or moving at immense speed. "threat units" like repentia, CC effects and zone control are completely ignored.
Repentia THREAT an assault, and force the enemy hand for a reasonable price to rotate around them. having a bunch hidden behind a wall will mean the enemy will dare not approach the wall untill some LoS ignoring gun takes care of them, if he even has any.
They don't need to reach the enemy lines, they need to discourage them from reaching yours. at least on that note.
Or on the offensive side, if you pack multiple repentia teams, multiple engine teams and multiple dominos squads-you create a serius threat overload for more opponents. the repentia are EASY to clear out, but there are just too many things that are too close, too fast, so despite being easy to kill-you can't get them all. kill the repentia, the dominos will keep blasting and engines will chrage in, take care of dominos and/or engines, and the repentia will get to you.
Not fullproof, but its a workable plan.
Not saying they are 100% perfect and amazing, but I am saying some people here seem to underestimate them and what they actually do.
They THREAT what will happen if god forbids you allow them to hit your lines.
Repentia lost a lot of their threat when the unit lost FnP. Now a stiff breeze can knock them down fairly quickly and the opposing unit can move on their way rather easily. They're scary in one assault, but after that they're spent and pretty worthless. The current AoF rules are not helping them in the least.
And wth do Guard get to use an Order every turn or Marines get an "always on" Chapter Tactic but we have to pick and choose for a 1 use only ability that requires a roll?
Oh all the things of the Sisters book I don't like the current AoF system is on top of my list.
And yes, Sisters were on the list for early summer but that may not be true. We'll know for sure as we go forward.
Well yes, the AoF system is silly.
Both 1-use and roll is bad, as it makes it a "when you need it most" type of thing, but gives no assurances you can actually TRUST it to work when you need it.
Comparing it to chapter tactics is not fair, as the acts are mostly far superior to any CT. and orders originate from a single unit and are not independat.
But I agree another system is needed. either more trustworthy, or more available.
BoomWolf wrote: Well yes, the AoF system is silly.
Both 1-use and roll is bad, as it makes it a "when you need it most" type of thing, but gives no assurances you can actually TRUST it to work when you need it.
Comparing it to chapter tactics is not fair, as the acts are mostly far superior to any CT. and orders originate from a single unit and are not independat.
But I agree another system is needed. either more trustworthy, or more available.
Orders originate from command squads at both the HQ and Troop levels. If you build your army to capitalize on them you can easily have 8 units handing out orders every turn.
And some of the CT are worse, but there are others that are better.
The point was that we don't have a good system and are screwed over for rules that shouldn't be so limited when other armies get more uses out of theirs.
I like the current AOF system much more than previous incarnation but then I think the current Codex ifs not bad - its nowhere near complete or everything I woud want but it works well.
BoomWolf wrote: Well yes, the AoF system is silly.
Both 1-use and roll is bad, as it makes it a "when you need it most" type of thing, but gives no assurances you can actually TRUST it to work when you need it.
Well you have to have FAITH that it'll work... duh. :-p
Mr Morden wrote: I like the current AOF system much more than previous incarnation but then I think the current Codex ifs not bad - its nowhere near complete or everything I woud want but it works well.
5th had a better system. Sure the Faith Points were limited and random but it was a long shot better than only getting 1 use out of the same abilities (or with Repentia worse abilities since most things you want Repentia to fight are S6 or greater). I speak no hyperbole when I say I enjoyed the 5th edition rules for AoF over 6th's.
BoomWolf wrote: Well yes, the AoF system is silly.
Both 1-use and roll is bad, as it makes it a "when you need it most" type of thing, but gives no assurances you can actually TRUST it to work when you need it.
Well you have to have FAITH that it'll work... duh. :-p
FORGE THAT NARRATIVE! :-p
Sisters who can't rely on their Faith aren't good Sisters. There, narrative forged.
5th system's problem was the total lack of scaling.
500 point game? 5000 point game? same faith level.
Fate as generate-able resource would be the best (say, generated by diagonalis, by team leaders with the flagbook thing, by wiping out enemy units, etc)
The number of times I needed a couple (or more) of AOF in 5th and rolled a 1 for the turn - or started the game with a 6 when it was not use...................or rolled a 6 when I had one unit left ..
Plus it did not stack - so bigger the game - nope still just D6 AOF points
Whereas 6th Ed codex - you get one (or moredepending on your unit) per unit and usually it worked when I needed it.
BoomWolf wrote: 5th system's problem was the total lack of scaling.
500 point game? 5000 point game? same faith level.
Fate as generate-able resource would be the best (say, generated by diagonalis, by team leaders with the flagbook thing, by wiping out enemy units, etc)
I agree the lack of scaling wasn't good (at least early game, late game after you've lost a unit or two it starts to really pick up). 3rd wasn't bad for generating points, but I didn't enjoy the system as much and I honestly did better with 5th's system.
That said, has anyone else never been able to use the current Martyrdom? I never have models who can use their AoF by the time goes off because I've already used them.
BoomWolf wrote: 5th system's problem was the total lack of scaling.
500 point game? 5000 point game? same faith level.
Fate as generate-able resource would be the best (say, generated by diagonalis, by team leaders with the flagbook thing, by wiping out enemy units, etc)
Honestly, if we're wish-listing completely... I would LOVE some kind of alternative list-building for Sisters, perhaps evocative of different ranks within the order... maybe something akin to some of the odd-ball formations we've seen from Necron recently.
Your faith generation idea reminds me of rumors before the newest Ork Codex dropped. Everyone loved the fluffy and fun rumors which suggested that volume of Orks on the table essentially generated warp-charges. Seemed very much in line with Orky "belief = make stuff work". Unfortunately, come release we saw that only in the most vaguely represented way, and only if you took a Weirdboy, and sat him near a clump of Boyz.
What I am saying is... GW seems highly averse to giving armies more mechanically unique flavor. We're lucky if an army gets two "army-wide" rules to give them character, and instead spent a long time going down the path of USR and phoned in detachments.
Hopefully the more weird experiments with the Harlequinn FOC, etc... will translate to a more inspired Sisters book. I would be soooo happy if we ended up with Sisters being a legitimately "different" army than "Lady Space Marines -5"
Since we are discussing rules and being wishlisty. I would recommend a system similar to 5th's WD codex with some emthod of scalability. For instance Canoness', Dialogous', Living Saints, possibly Veteran Superiors (Not normal Superiors) and Priests generating Faith each turn which while still limited in some has a way of growing based on your army size. Perhaps a random chance for most of them scaling up with the points value up to the Living Saint which always geneartes some. Faith shoudl be a powerful tol in the arsenal not some crappy way of getting a couple of random USR's.
The changes to Faith to me were really bad since other armies had easy or permanent ways of generating cool rules. Blood Angels I see your anger and magic cup. Guard I look at your Colonel yelling at you (nvm that voxes should have more than 20 feet of range). Marines, I am looking at centuries of tradition. Honestly I don't begrudge armies their cool stuff, but give Sisters some equivalent that doesn't suck. Especially if you are going define these as 'Miraculous' There really isn't anything Miraculous about Preferred Enemy considering Dark Angels get it versus Chaos Marines just becuase they hold a millenia-long grudge for which none of them were alive to witness or don't even fully understand. Same thing for Furious Charge. I mean the sentient fungus gets it along with the "angry" Blood Angels.
Ignore Cover for Dominions is great - esp with Melta guns
Rending with Heavy Bolters - yep also great
Shred with Serepahim is not bad
Prefered enemy - worked well for me
Ignore Cover for Dominions is great - esp with Melta guns
Rending with Heavy Bolters - yep also great
Shred with Serepahim is not bad
Prefered enemy - worked well for me
The only problem with these is that ignores cover makes flamer Dominions basically useless and shred makes Infernus Pistol Seraphim basically useless. I rather like the current faith system/effects, but I imagine that they could balance the weapons a bit better perhaps.
When writing my Fandex, I made Acts of Faith harder to pull off and less available all the time. I used rules similar to Codex: Witch Hunters, with a little more leeway. Depending on the size of a squad, only half of the Acts of Faith will be easily performed. Acts of Faith also now cost up to 3 faith points, so you won't get as many Acts of Faith per turn as you have units. Every unit has all Acts of Faith available to them, but each unit also receives a buff specific to only them. Dominions get Twin-linked when using Holy Fusillade for example. This way Flamer Dominions actually have a use for their signature Act of Faith.
I'd also like to see a return of alternative army lists, instead of a Force Org with a few special rules tacked on, that nobody will use because it lacks Objective Secured. Just finished making an Ordo Hereticus Strike Force alternative army list for my Homebrew Codex Sisters of Battle: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148. It's the polar opposite of the Space Marines Siege Assault Vanguard army list. The list can only take Drop Pods and Flyers, and units that can either Deep Strike, Infiltrate, or be transported in a Flyer or Drop Pod. It does however have some sizable buffs, more Faith Points, and re-rolls on reserves, etc., but like the the Siege Assault Vanguard, it can only tie if it doesn't complete its compulsory objective, Slay the Warlord.
Ignore Cover for Dominions is great - esp with Melta guns
Rending with Heavy Bolters - yep also great
Ignore cover sucks on flamers, Rending suck on multi-melta.
Well yesbut Ignore Cover is one of the USR's that people always want in their codexes - plus as its usually a one off - the flamers work in subsequent turns on the off chance you survive.
Ignore cover does nothing for Flamers but is deadily and awesome for Melta guns ( AP1 and no cover save is always nasty) and good for Krak grenades, even bolt guns and Bolt pistols.
Re rending - well I donl't know abut you I would always rather auto wound that roll "anythig but a one" cos that happens far to often
I really found the 5th Ed version of AOF frustrating - 6th ed I can plan around them and know that it actually scales rather than D6 a turn even if we are playing a huge game.
Auto wound AFTER you roll a six.
You could have rolled a one just as well.
Rending on MM never has any effect in game, except if you are shooting at an AV14 target from outside the melta range, in that case you get a glance promoted to a pen.
Cover ignoring on flamers again has no effect in the game, at all. the only gain a flamer domino squad has is for any abletaive wound you might have around with their bolters, hardly noteworthy.
Dominos and Rets are great because they have a setup that works wonders, but their OTHER setups? are meh, the HF rets the only of the of the non-HB rets and non-melta dominos to even consider.
Just like the broadside, one setup works too well, the other serves no purpose.
What I wish to see for the dominos next codex is not a firepower act, but a SPEED act. something that lets them dash forward will be great.
And for the rets? how about RoF or range increasing act, rather than a simple rend?
Rending on MM never has any effect in game, except if you are shooting at an AV14 target from outside the melta range, in that case you get a glance promoted to a pen
er just confirmed that it can do - if you roll a 6 you autowound, if you donlt have redning you can fail to wound - so it can have an effect - not that often but ift can - "never" is simply correct.
Dominons already have Scout which does exactly that. Gets you further forward - what more could you want?
I'd like more stuff for the AOF and for other units in te Codex (and loads of other things) but let remember that the current Dominion squad is a unit pretty much every other codex would envy..... therefore its likely to be nerferd if we get another codex.
Mr Morden wrote: Re rending - well I donl't know abut you I would always rather auto wound that roll "anythig but a one" cos that happens far to often
Rending has not worked that way for TWO editions.
Mr Morden wrote: er just confirmed that it can do - if you roll a 6 you autowound, if you donlt have redning you can fail to wound - so it can have an effect - not that often but ift can - "never" is simply correct.
S8 ALWAYS wound when rolling a 6 already. There is no T greater than 10 in the game, and it would take T12 for a 6 not to wound.
It auto-wounds on a TO WOUND roll of a 6.
I can think of no scenario in the game that a unit is not already wounded by a S8 gun rolling a 6, and the AP1 means armor saves cannot be taken anyway. it does NOTHING.
Scout is nice and all, but a "speed act of faith" can easily be a shunt-style move (probably shorter. say, 12"?) the reason people envy dominos is not a good reason, they envy a SPESIFIC setup. the melta dominos, and their cover ignoring skill on a scouting unit, making them silly good alpha strike, but nothing else.
Shunt dominos would still be cool melta units-and less shoehorned into alpha strike roles, but will also matter as flamer units. no way to redeem stormbolter doms though, stormbolters are a pointless gun regardless of platform :\
Rending MM are useful when you're facing AV 20 Vehicles.
You know, Forgeworld releasing the Warlord being much more probable of a rumour (was it just announced rather than rumour?) than the New SoB Models....
The heavy bolter chick is definitely epic though!
