Legacy is a bad comparison, what with the "Legacy" thing, and it's going for $50 in practice. The "normal" ones are $20-40. Regardless, it will need to be available pretty cheaply or review really well once it's out in the wild (previews from people and websites who are incentivised by getting free review copies don't count) for me to pick it up.
Legacy is a bad comparison, what with the "Legacy" thing, and it's going for $50 in practice. The "normal" ones are $20-40. Regardless, it will need to be available pretty cheaply or review really well once it's out in the wild (previews from people and websites who are incentivised by getting free review copies don't count) for me to pick it up.
That was the point I was trying to make. Things rarely sell at rrp, even GW stuff. (unless you live in Japan like me). As I said everyone has their threshold of what an acceptable price is.
We have also seen GW adjust prices down late in the day. I believe this happened with both shadow war and betrayal at Calth.
As for the game itself, I have yet to see any negative impressions.
The game has a thread on boardgamegeek now (which is where the price came from). They tend to be some of the harshest critics out there, so if it gets a good reputation on boardgamegeek it is safe to say that it is a good game.
This is going to be a really good thing for those of us who enjoy GW models and games. Here's why...GW has been trying to find a way to get more people into the hobby. Most of us enjoy modeling and painting as well as playing miniatures games, but would it surprise you that many people don't? Dare I say the majority of the overall hobby gaming market (Board Games, Roleplaying Games, Card Games, Miniatures) do not play miniatures. There are a myriad of reasons. I know that as I get older and my eyesight gets worse, my hand-eye coordination gets worse, I find putting models together to be tedious. For the generation brought up on video games, short attention spans seem to be a problem. Then there is delayed gratification. Lose a game of Magic, and you are only out 20-30 minutes, leaving you wanting to play again because the next time you could win. Lose a game of miniatures, and that's 4 hours of your life you will never get back. You have to really delay gratification to take a chance at playing another 4 hour game. All around the world, and certainly at your LFGS it is hard to get a miniatures table on Friday night because EVERYONE knows that that is Friday Night Magic. GW wants a night of miniatures, but how to do it? Well, Shadowspire has a lot of great features. For one, the miniatures are amazing. They don't require a lot of construction (so people not into modeling won't be turned off). They are faction colored plastics (so people not into painting don't have to paint them). It is played on a board, so board gamers won't have to learn how to create a board with terrain pieces and move models with a ruler (simple I know, but trust me, they can't be bothered). It uses faction decks which you create and fine tune. Your Khorne warband will function differently from your opponent's Khorne warband (and this deck building aspect should appeal to card players). You only play 5 turns, scoring objectives in every turn. This means if you know what you are doing, you games will last about 30 minutes. Fast enough to play multiple games. That takes care of delayed gratification and short attention span. For those of us who play AOS, they have said that cross-over rules for the miniatures in AOS will be in White Dwarf. The fact that they designed this game to be competitive and that they intend to support the competitive scene, means that it will draw more people into the hobby. Some of them will cross-over into AOS, which means more people to play (playing the same opponents/armies all the time gets old). Finally, if this release does well, it will give GW the courage to try new things and the revenue to fund them. Really, this is a win-win.
Wow, I'm really digging how they implemented the upgrade cards and glory points in this game. It's looking like it will be a lot of fun. I may just end up picking it up, even at the price point.
Has anyone heard whether they plan to release "expansions" for the factions (like a pack of a couple different Blood Reavers that you can swap into your warband by taking a few out). I think that would add even more customization and really take it up a step.
I also noticed that in the rulebook when they are listing the factions, they listed both the previewed Stormcast and Khorne factions together and they share a paragraph description. That makes me wonder if those factions will have a degree of interchangeability between their two teams.
If they do this right I'll get a lot of stuff, too. They have to convince my brother to actually play the game and I'll buy teams. If GW can't do that, I probably won't ouside of really low price per mini or truly great sculpts - the skellies would be bought, the Orcs maybe, the starter teams wouldn't, for example.
The activation system seems to really benefit low model count, high power warbands like the Stormcast (surprise, surprise). I don't see how Skaven or Undead will be competitive if they can only activate half their models every turn. I guess they just spread out and claim objectives?
ecurtz wrote: The activation system seems to really benefit low model count, high power warbands like the Stormcast (surprise, surprise). I don't see how Skaven or Undead will be competitive if they can only activate half their models every turn. I guess they just spread out and claim objectives?
If its Vampire Pirates - they may be few in number? I really hope there are some cool female as well as male vamps - new style handmaidens for the Queen of Mysteries....
Mr Morden wrote: If its Vampire Pirates - they may be few in number? I really hope there are some cool female as well as male vamps - new style handmaidens for the Queen of Mysteries....
ecurtz wrote: The activation system seems to really benefit low model count, high power warbands like the Stormcast (surprise, surprise). I don't see how Skaven or Undead will be competitive if they can only activate half their models every turn. I guess they just spread out and claim objectives?
If its Vampire Pirates - they may be few in number? I really hope there are some cool female as well as male vamps - new style handmaidens for the Queen of Mysteries....
The 'vampirates' are the Wraith Fleet, a Faction that is a part of Firestorm for Age of Sigmar.
Yeah there's been no hint at any vampires for Shadespire, just skeletons. Though I would love to see a vampire team or flesheaters. Considering the setting of the game in the realm of death or whatever I would certainly like to see more undead in the game.
Again...everything about this looks great except for the price...which may leave it dead in the water when it releases especially if it's released in close proximity to Necromunda. The expansion teams better not cost any more than 35-40 USD or this game isn't going to find its legs. And I say that with the full intention of buying from discount sellers.
ecurtz wrote: The activation system seems to really benefit low model count, high power warbands like the Stormcast (surprise, surprise). I don't see how Skaven or Undead will be competitive if they can only activate half their models every turn. I guess they just spread out and claim objectives?
If its Vampire Pirates - they may be few in number? I really hope there are some cool female as well as male vamps - new style handmaidens for the Queen of Mysteries....
The 'vampirates' are the Wraith Fleet, a Faction that is a part of Firestorm for Age of Sigmar.
Ah right my mistake...
Looking at the link
They have plenty of tricks up their ragged sleeves to tip a combat in their favour, chief amongst them being the Sepulchral Warden’s ability to inspire and bolster the other undead warriors around him.
So maybe you have to move them up and around together but its tricky with limited activation? Or maybe you can bring them back when they are destroyed?
I know it won't happen, but this game is perfect example for them to do a set (say three) of Tzeentch themed warriors as an expansion (since Khorne has Blood Warriors and Nurgle has Blightkings) in the new scale. A Slaanesh warband, a Freeguild one (with actual new freeguild models), and a new Aelf one would be very welcome also. That said we will probably only get the original eight in the first year, and a maybe a few more in the following if the game is wildly successful.
I will probably pick up all the boxes on release day. The boxes and releases are exactly what I was hoping for. Just a shame MWG did not open the expansions and show the content.
Anyway, looking forward to this as much as always!
Chopstick wrote: Gorechosen, those are actual heroes fight under the Mighty Lord of Khorne, they're (probably) bigger and more detail than the one from shadespire, which btw they're just normal dude with names. I imagine GW give them AoS rule and let them (the lowest of low rank) fight alongside their superior as heroes, which is kinda funny. A bloodreaver is like a vermin to a Gorechosen.
But even with the insane "value" that Gorechosen bring, I don't think that game sale very well.
Gorechosen, as a game by itself, might not have done too hot. It's worth mentioning though that by the time Gorechosen was out, all of the individual characters had been out for awhile. It was like "Lost Patrol" in that it was just reusing existing material--which this game isn't.
Chopstick wrote: Gorechosen, those are actual heroes fight under the Mighty Lord of Khorne, they're (probably) bigger and more detail than the one from shadespire, which btw they're just normal dude with names. I imagine GW give them AoS rule and let them (the lowest of low rank) fight alongside their superior as heroes, which is kinda funny. A bloodreaver is like a vermin to a Gorechosen.
But even with the insane "value" that Gorechosen bring, I don't think that game sale very well.
Gorechosen, as a game by itself, might not have done too hot. It's worth mentioning though that by the time Gorechosen was out, all of the individual characters had been out for awhile. It was like "Lost Patrol" in that it was just reusing existing material--which this game isn't.
Just going to put it out there that Gorechosen is awesome. If underworlds is as good as gorechosen, I'll be very happy!
Checking out the unboxing vid, it looks like there are 7 deployment spaces on each of the boards, so warbands wont be coming any larger than the Sepulchural Guard.
New White Dwarf has dropped through this morning. I'm sure someone will be along to add pictures, but Shadespire is coming in at £40 / 50 EUR / $60 USD / $70 CAN.
It's launching alongside Stormcast/Bloodbound themed card sleeves, which are £5 / $8 USD.
idespair wrote: New White Dwarf has dropped through this morning. I'm sure someone will be along to add pictures, but Shadespire is coming in at £40 / 50 EUR / $60 USD / $70 CAN.
It's launching alongside Stormcast/Bloodbound themed card sleeves, which are £5 / $8 USD.
Thanks! Cheaper than previously posted!
Which size are the card (sleeves)?
From the photos of Shadespire I'm guessing at Standard sized, but they don't give measurements, and I can't find any mention of how many per pack.
Edited to add: Sepulchral Guard and Ironskull's Boyz look to be the first two expansions, as they're both advertised later on (no price given). Each box also contains 29 faction specific cards, and 31 universal cards, split between upgrades, ploys & objectives.
Very happy to see that the price is lower than the one I quoted before. I guess that was a placeholder.
Really looking forward to getting my hands on this.
So if the new white dwarf has been released then we should have a definitive list of what is being released in October. Hopefully the releases are more regular than Blood bowl have been, this doesn't have the pedigree to allow long gaps between releases.
The earlier price rumor may have been in CAD. But i'm happier with this price, 60 usd means i'll probably be able to get it for 50-55 ish bucks from discount sellers. So I guess thats a done deal and I can commit money to getting this.
Hasn't GW used odd card sizes in the past? I always had trouble finding sleeves that fit especially for DW overkill. So finally getting some useable ones is going to be pretty nice.
Mymearan wrote: Very nice price point, suddenly this went from "will buy sometime in 2018" to a probable pre-order despite Necromunda dropping the same month...
Core box is £40, so reasonably priced. No word on expansion Warband price.
Expansions come with 60 cards. 29 race specific, 31 generic. It's not said if those generics are the same in each set. Me, I hope so as it means it's not a FFG chase style format, where you buy for the card not the ship.
Seems to go up for pre-order on October 14th according to people who have read the october White Dwarf issue. That would mean an October 21st release.
Shame, I would have really wanted it to go up for pre-order this weekend, or the next. Now we will need to wait almost a month for release. It's too bad, since this is the only thing I'm really looking forward to from GW at the moment, but oh well.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Core box is £40, so reasonably priced. No word on expansion Warband price.
Expansions come with 60 cards. 29 race specific, 31 generic. It's not said if those generics are the same in each set. Me, I hope so as it means it's not a FFG chase style format, where you buy for the card not the ship.
A bit unfortunate if you want to play the game competively - I'm thinking this will be great for casual games with non-wargamers too as the rules seem very simple to learn (and the main box comes with ready to go decks), so not too bothered (even though I'm already eyeing the expansions too).
Hopefully the expansions will go for about 25 euro each - though I wouldn't be surprised by at least 30 each, unfortunately.
Unlike X-Wing or Armada, there will be a decent amount of people who want the sets just for the models, not the cards, so they may show up more often for resale.
Reckon I want to see how this actually plays before deciding. The price is reasonable enough (YMMV), and the models are definitely nice enough. Kind of tempted by the Undead faction, because Skellingtons.
RazorEdge wrote: I dont't know why but I would expect the re-use of the Tzaargor or the Acolyte Sprue from SIlver Tower for a Tzeentch faction.
They would likely sculpt new bases though, I can't see them being lazy enough to re use entire sculpts. All of these shadespire models have unique scenic bases to match the board.
Miniwargaming has uploaded a battle report on Youtube, for all to see! The first game was just in their Vault, but now everyone can watch a game of Shadespire, and see how it's played. It looks really good actually, in my opinion. I can see it getting old watching many games with these two same Warbands though, so I hope they get their Orks and Undead assembled and painted up, so we can see those in action as well.
it's possible to take parts from the 3d model of the big sprue. modified bit into the new easy to build with pin. But it's not gonna happen lol.
I reckon we won't be seing any team other than the one from the art at least until 2019. They have years a head of them to make a new team. Not like they was rushed to hell to make it. And making these was even easier than a normal multi-part kit with pose and option.
zamerion wrote: Isnt khorne a little batter than stormcast? : /
Based on.....?
Ive played it and they felt balanced. Or as best balanced as GW can do. Stormcast can flip very easily by blocking, where khorne has to kill/get killed.
zamerion wrote: Isnt khorne a little batter than stormcast? : /
Based on.....?
Ive played it and they felt balanced. Or as best balanced as GW can do. Stormcast can flip very easily by blocking, where khorne has to kill/get killed.
Watching 3 demo videos always win khorne. The defense does not seem so important. It's just a first impression, I hope I'm totally wrong.
I'm guessing those test games are played "out of the box". Not enough time to actually figure out the intricacies of the game, especially one with relatively large amount of moving pieces.
This has gone from being uninteresting to quite intriguing.
One question will be how I can play if I don't want to buy the main game? I would like Orruks and Sepulchre Guard, for example. So will I get board section with each team?
Although I am honestly tempted to buy the main game anyway.
zamerion wrote: Isnt khorne a little batter than stormcast? : /
Based on.....?
Ive played it and they felt balanced. Or as best balanced as GW can do. Stormcast can flip very easily by blocking, where khorne has to kill/get killed.
Watching 3 demo videos always win khorne. The defense does not seem so important. It's just a first impression, I hope I'm totally wrong.
Stormcast get inspired much ealier than Khorne (and probably other team) which is when they become good.
The one from Miniwar Gaming, SC team could have won if he save the cards to take out kasus the chained and blooded saek before Garrek Gorebeard.. He even let Bloody Saek survived to triggered his inspired state in the end which is generally a bad move. Garrek Gorebeard is the "distraction carnifex" of the team, with his leader title and 4 hp, people didn't realize he had average attack stat. and 0 ability even when inspired.
Basicly you want Saek>Kasus>Garrek out in that order before their inspired kicked in.
I've played four times, not a lot, but so far it's 50/50 SC vs Khorne. It's more possible to make tactical mistakes than I expected (which is a good thing).
zamerion wrote: Isnt khorne a little batter than stormcast? : /
Based on.....?
Ive played it and they felt balanced. Or as best balanced as GW can do. Stormcast can flip very easily by blocking, where khorne has to kill/get killed.
Watching 3 demo videos always win khorne. The defense does not seem so important. It's just a first impression, I hope I'm totally wrong.
Three matches is a really small sample size, not to mention none of the players are familiar enough with the game to fully grasp the strategies of the different factions yet. Give a month or two before making a judgement on how balanced the game is.
This has gone from being uninteresting to quite intriguing.
One question will be how I can play if I don't want to buy the main game? I would like Orruks and Sepulchre Guard, for example. So will I get board section with each team?
Although I am honestly tempted to buy the main game anyway.
There is a big chance that people will by starter only for figs. And you can buy cards on ebay?
This has gone from being uninteresting to quite intriguing.
One question will be how I can play if I don't want to buy the main game? I would like Orruks and Sepulchre Guard, for example. So will I get board section with each team?
Although I am honestly tempted to buy the main game anyway.
I think it's been stated (perhaps I am mistaken?) that the core box comes with a core set of cards...and then faction specific cards for the Khorne and Stormcast warbands. I'm not sure if these cards will be available separately...
The expansion sets will include the faction specific cards for the theme of the box (i.e. Undead, Orc, etc.) but will also contain generic cards you can add to the core set to customize any faction....this model is set up to entice serious players to buy all of the expansions, even if they don't plan to use the factions in the box. I'm sure that if you want to play this competitively, there will be must-have 'neutral' cards in each expansion that you are going to want to get...There will be a little bit of an ebay market for this, as there will be people that only want the models, but I think the game looks really well designed, and super fun, so we'll see how easy/cheap it will be to get just the cards...
GW have said that you need the starter set to play but that Shadespire is season 1 of Warhammer Underworlds. Presumably if this is a success, season 2 will be in a new location with new boards.
Watching the Miniwargaming video really sold me on the potential of the cards. Playing one card to pull a fighter to within charge range and then another to buff the attack of the charger shows how important a good card strategy will be.
It is probably an obvious point but in all these demo videos the objective and power cards are on display but the game is designed for them to be secret so there will be plenty of opportunity for bluffing and misdirection.
I am really excited to check out all the cards and see what kind of strategies are possible.
Yeah, most def Chikout. The card aspect is what realy sets this apart, as well as the unique way you set up the board. I really love that you can create a nice chokehold for Stormcasts that they can defend easily, without worrying too much about flankers, and a Khorne team can setup a large, open space for them to run around.
The cards, boards and objectives all look solid. The minis are great and there are not too many. The skellie team has quite a few minis, but they should be relatively quick to paint.
I'm curious to see how they balance the undead. Since you gain a victory point for defeating an enemy, horde warbands will tend to give easy points to the opponent. Also you can only ever activate 4 of them in a single turn (unless there's a faction card that gives double activation or something), so you end up with a good portion of your warband not playing.
You'd only wind up with duplicates if you were buying more than one Warband though?
I really, really, don't want this to be a chase game, where I have to pay for stuff I won't use, for the single component I will.
Hate it in X-Wing, and it's stopped me ded buying anything else FFG. I don't want GW going down that route. In short, if I want to play a CCG, I'll play a CCG. Certainly got enough Magic Cards.
Is there the ability to have duplicates of a card in your deck, like in Netrunner? Would there be a need to buy, i dunno, 2 sets of the starter, like we had to do with Netrunner or other Living Card Games?
I don't mind duplicates, but buying a whole new starter to get 4 of a card that's very useful, is awful.
ritualnet wrote: Is there the ability to have duplicates of a card in your deck, like in Netrunner? Would there be a need to buy, i dunno, 2 sets of the starter, like we had to do with Netrunner or other Living Card Games?
I don't mind duplicates, but buying a whole new starter to get 4 of a card that's very useful, is awful.
Duplicates aren't allowed (heard that in one of the demo video, so from someone who read the rules).
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You'd only wind up with duplicates if you were buying more than one Warband though?
I really, really, don't want this to be a chase game, where I have to pay for stuff I won't use, for the single component I will.
Hate it in X-Wing, and it's stopped me ded buying anything else FFG. I don't want GW going down that route. In short, if I want to play a CCG, I'll play a CCG. Certainly got enough Magic Cards.
Sadly is the style for the more profitable competitive games out there so I find that probably it will be X-wing all over again.
I'd like to think GW are big enough to avoid the need.
At the very least, they need to avoid the FFG trick of 'make Iconic Ship 3 utterly suck, then 'fix' it by whacking a power card in a far more expensive boxed set'. That really micturated me off.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You'd only wind up with duplicates if you were buying more than one Warband though?
I really, really, don't want this to be a chase game, where I have to pay for stuff I won't use, for the single component I will.
Hate it in X-Wing, and it's stopped me ded buying anything else FFG. I don't want GW going down that route. In short, if I want to play a CCG, I'll play a CCG. Certainly got enough Magic Cards.
If you don't want a GWccg then perhaps you should not play Shadespire, because that is a big part of the game.
The objective and ploy cards are part of a series of 431 cards. With 96 in the box that leaves 345 for the expansions. This suggests there will be 5 or 6 expansions each with unique cards.
I think the writing is on the wall. It's almost guaranteed that different neutral cards will be spread throughout the expansions. And to build optimal decks you will have to buy expansions for different warbands.
Not having duplicates in a deck would be great though, I hadn't heard that. That would stop you from having to multiples of expansions you don't even want.
Hopefully the expansion warbands are in the 20-30 dollar range
It's the 'not actually getting the card I want with anything for my faction' that irks me.
If the 31 Generic Cards in Skellingtons and Orcses are the same deck? No beef from me.
If they're different? No ta.
I think the cards will be unique to the expansions, I share your irritation, but it has been proven to be a hugely successful business model and GW currently have no game which exploits it.
As long as they aren't allowing duplicates where you need multiple of each expansion I'm good with it. I could see l, depending on cost, grabbing an extra of the ork or death rattle ones just for the models if I could get the cash back for the cards or buying the models off others for a reasonable cost if someone wants the cards and no models. And I think that will be far more common than in ffg games.
I doubt you'll have trouble getting them honestly. Every army that has a warband will probably want the models if nothing else so cards should be easy to come by on ebay even if GW doesn't release card packs. Which I could see them doing a few months after each expansion is released.
I'm honestly a little less interested in the game after watching that Miniwargaming game. It's way too much about drawing and playing cards for me. So much back and forth with playing the power cards, and having 5 of them every turn. Plus the totally arbitrary objectives depending on what you draw, and you have no idea what your opponent is trying to achieve. Seems like most games will result in one side wiped out quickly, and whoever got the right objective cards wins, even if they got wiped out. And I get the appeal of the named characters, but kind of hard to get into the background when most of those named characters will get killed every game. Or does the magical city resurrect them or something?
I'm with Mad Doc on this one. Chasing cards was the reason I never had an interest in X-Wing. If this is going to be the same thing, it's a pass for me. The models are pretty cool.
Another concern is that so far, we've only seen boxed warbands.
Now the game does look very cool. There's no denying that.
But the warbands seem fairly limited as they are. And that makes me wonder if we might see X-Wing style releases, with alternate Sigmarite, Ironjaw, Skellington etc. And if we do (yes, there's a lot 'ifs' here...), will they have Faction cards which suddenly make a different model much better?
Now, I may well be worrying about nothing here, and I hope I am. But for now, it's pointing to a business model I'm not terribly fond of, having been put off by X-Wing.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Then I don't have much to worry about yet. I didn't notice that on the first time through.
If they want you chasing cards without being too obvious, they might it by including powerful neutral cards in a team box for which the card isn't that powerful, so you have an interest in cross buying.
Not saying that's going to happen, but as has been pointed out, if it's successful for Fantasy Flight Games, GW might be tempted to give it a try as well.
So wait... Nagash got mad that the people in Shadespire were trapping their souls in shadeglass and so denying them to Nagash. So Nagash gets back at them by trapping all their souls in Shadespire forever?
Do we know the pricing on the Warbands yet? I need those Skellies. Lovely models, so rare to see Skeletons in more dynamic poses and there's some really cool touches in the sculpts; the one that used to be a prince still has is crown, the former knight still has a suitable ornate sword, the farmer not having any armour while the rest do.
Really does a good job of making them characters rather than just a faceless undead horde.
Yeah, those Skeleton Sculpts are one of the best Skeletons I have ever seen. Full of character. My favourite is the Champion, followed by the Lord Marshal.
Did someone say something about card protectors being available? It would be useful- obviously MTG size would be preferred, but something vaguely the right size would make any card system more practical.
But I really don't want to have to shell out the cost of a Warband when, really, I just want a couple of sodding cards.
I'd prepare yourself for this, because hoping the business model isn't just like the x-wing one is going to lead to some serious disappointment. Each expansion will have 31 unique neutral cards, and you better believe there will be something in each expansion that is a must-have, if not an auto-include for each of the factions they've announced so far (and likely for the Skaven and Dwarf ones as well). Price point may be leaked somewhere else already, but I predict they will be anywhere from $30 to $40 USD. Id be floored if they were $25 each, and surprised if they were over $40.
The up side is you can only have one copy of a card in your deck, so needing multiples of each expansion wont be a thing. Also, you will likely be able to sell off the models for a decent amount on ebay for those who aren't interested in the game at all.
edit: I can almost guarantee we wont see the cards released separately..
Interesting note, in the "Game" section of the website, it mention each player selecting a board section from their "collection". I wonder how these extra board sections will be sold. As stand-alone a la Blood Bowl, or in the Warband expansion kits.
But I really don't want to have to shell out the cost of a Warband when, really, I just want a couple of sodding cards.
I'd prepare yourself for this, because hoping the business model isn't just like the x-wing one is going to lead to some serious disappointment. Each expansion will have 31 unique neutral cards, and you better believe there will be something in each expansion that is a must-have, if not an auto-include for each of the factions they've announced so far (and likely for the Skaven and Dwarf ones as well). Price point may be leaked somewhere else already, but I predict they will be anywhere from $30 to $40 USD. Id be floored if they were $25 each, and surprised if they were over $40.
The up side is you can only have one copy of a card in your deck, so needing multiples of each expansion wont be a thing. Also, you will likely be able to sell off the models for a decent amount on ebay for those who aren't interested in the game at all.
edit: I can almost guarantee we wont see the cards released separately..
I don't understand this mindset. Wouldn't having a variety of options also extend to which warbands you have available to play? Like, if you have a box of Orks, why not play them every once in a while? Wouldn't you get sick of playing the same three Stormcast characters all the time? Why not play the other warbands too? Undoubtedly, the community of players would be stronger for it. Why get the cards and sell the models?
With X-Wing, I get it. You buy models individually. You could end up with a model from a different faction or which is not compatible with the play style you've chosen. But the warbands are self contained. You won't end up with a model you can't use, just a model you won't use. And that seems weird to me, that someone would contemplate a box just for a card or two and discard everything else about it. It just seems so foreign to me to have this mindset of doing anything to win, including gimping your own variety and potential for enjoyment.
I would guess with this game, most people are going to have to play more than one warband. With the warbands only being configurable by using different cards, I think it will get old quickly using the same warband all the time. I assume GW is counting on this, and counting on existing players regularly buying new warbands as they are released to get some variety.
With X-wing, people may play the same faction all the time, but I assume they switch out what specific ships they take once in a while to keep things interesting (rather than only taking different upgrade cards). With Shadespire that isn't an option.
Albino Squirrel wrote: I would guess with this game, most people are going to have to play more than one warband. With the warbands only being configurable by using different cards, I think it will get old quickly using the same warband all the time. I assume GW is counting on this, and counting on existing players regularly buying new warbands as they are released to get some variety.
With X-wing, people may play the same faction all the time, but I assume they switch out what specific ships they take once in a while to keep things interesting (rather than only taking different upgrade cards). With Shadespire that isn't an option.
I think it's GWs intention to have us collect more than one team and stuff. Provided they are reasonably priced, and it's not like there's a ton of models involved in doing that. Switching around teams and trying new things is going to be key to keeping it fresh. Which is why for me and my buddy i'm going to get the starter +plus 1-2 more teams (likely death and then skaven later on). This seems less repetitive than X wing though IMO. Sometimes X wing becomes a jousting match until someone rolls lucky and ships die. Shadespire also looks pretty interesting as a setting and I hope if they do more boards they keep it in Shadespire at least for 2 more board sections, to flesh out the look a bit more. It would be weird if they made jungle/crazy other settings and you bring your tiles to play/snap em together and half the board is set in shadespire and the other half suddenly is a jungle/hammerhal/desert etc. They could do shattered glass floors, marble etc, maybe part of the ruins overcome with bones/vegetation.
I thought about making 3D terrain for the boards...but really, you'd have to paint hexes on it to make it usable in this game, and the details would make miniature placement awkward and unstable....especially the objectives...since figures are supposed to be able to occupy the spaces they are in as well. Still, I really dig the theme and the board art, so I may end up making 3D terrain based on the boards anyway and use it for AoS.
It would be disappointing if we got another Khorne and Stormcast warband so soon. The only consolation is that one box of each would make a pretty decent core of a skirmish warband.
Chikout wrote: It would be disappointing if we got another Khorne and Stormcast warband so soon. The only consolation is that one box of each would make a pretty decent core of a skirmish warband.
It is going to be an interesting way of seeing if the new Stormcast/Khorne warbands will be able to join/swap with other warbands of the same kind or if they'll be purely separate.
Reading the glossary sheet. They said a guard action last until the end of a phase and can only end if the unit charge. So you can be on guard and still moving/attacking?.
Hype growing at an alarming rate, reaching dangerous levels!
The only real question I have at this time is if they will ever release individual models for this game. We have warbands now, but I would love to see them releasing separate characters, X-wing style (but with unique cards that only that model can use, to avoid the problem many people here have pointed out).
I think releasing warbands with multiple models is really good for the launch of the game and some time forwards, but when we have played dozens of games, it could get old just seeing the same warbands over and over.
Like if I want to play Orruks, then having the same 4-model warband for all time, with just cards that change would be pretty boring after a while. Hopefully they will release separate models that allow you to change your warbands up.
The more I see, the more I desperately want to play.
But I still refuse to be X-Wing'd. NEVER AGAIN! EVER!
Just in theory, you'd only get X-winged there are significant balance issues. If GW have done a better job than FFG with balancing (quite possible, given the commitment to organised play, the fixed team setups and smaller number of systems in play) then it should be plenty possible to play at a friendly level just with the deck that comes with your warband. Sure, it might not be a totally optimised deck but provided there's at least some internal balance you should still be able to have fun with it.
While GW are pushing competitive play, I imagine this will attract a significant friendly crowd as well due to the low buy-in, interesting lore and general ease of access. And you may well find that in that environment, people are fine with proxying cards, that's definitely something accepted in friendly X-wing groups.
alleus wrote: Hype growing at an alarming rate, reaching dangerous levels!
The only real question I have at this time is if they will ever release individual models for this game. We have warbands now, but I would love to see them releasing separate characters, X-wing style (but with unique cards that only that model can use, to avoid the problem many people here have pointed out).
I think releasing warbands with multiple models is really good for the launch of the game and some time forwards, but when we have played dozens of games, it could get old just seeing the same warbands over and over.
Like if I want to play Orruks, then having the same 4-model warband for all time, with just cards that change would be pretty boring after a while. Hopefully they will release separate models that allow you to change your warbands up.
More models are always nice but the Shadespire models are just Stormcasts, Bloodreavers, Skeletons and 'Ardboys so they could just sell some character cards with models you can build with the existing kits.
The article also confirms what many have been fearing:
"Each of [the expansions] contains a new warband for the game, as well as 60 cards unique to the set. There’s something in each expansion for every warband, with cards in each set that can be used by anyone – you’ll want to pick up both[...]
This is a true shame. For someone like me, who is most likely going to pick up all warbands anyway, it doesn't make a big difference, but I know many people (both here and in real life) who will not buy anything at all for this game because of this. I was really hoping GW would not go with this business model, but there it is.
The article also confirms what many have been fearing:
"Each of [the expansions] contains a new warband for the game, as well as 60 cards unique to the set. There’s something in each expansion for every warband, with cards in each set that can be used by anyone – you’ll want to pick up both[...]
This is a true shame. For someone like me, who is most likely going to pick up all warbands anyway, it doesn't make a big difference, but I know many people (both here and in real life) who will not buy anything at all for this game because of this. I was really hoping GW would not go with this business model, but there it is.
...What are you talking about? Those are the universal cards, which have been confirmed since day one.
I'd been hoping the non-Faction specific ones would be the same deck in each expansion.
I think I'll wait and see for now. It may be that having one of each faction becomes the norm. After all, how much replay ability can there be with just three Stormcast?
The article also confirms what many have been fearing:
"Each of [the expansions] contains a new warband for the game, as well as 60 cards unique to the set. There’s something in each expansion for every warband, with cards in each set that can be used by anyone – you’ll want to pick up both[...]
This is a true shame. For someone like me, who is most likely going to pick up all warbands anyway, it doesn't make a big difference, but I know many people (both here and in real life) who will not buy anything at all for this game because of this. I was really hoping GW would not go with this business model, but there it is.
...What are you talking about? Those are the universal cards, which have been confirmed since day one.
Yes, it has been known that there would be universal, or "neutral", cards in each expansion. People have been speculating if those would be the same cards in every expansions however, or unique ones in each box. The wording from the post I quoted, at least to me, confirms that each box will have unique cards. So let's say the skeleton box has a really, really good neutral card. A competetive player that wants all cards will buy that warband for that one card, even though he/she will never use the skeleton models themselves.
This has not been confirmed until now, if I haven't missed something. Just check the last pages in this thread, it's filled with people speculating whether or not this will be the case.
This is a bit disappointing as the number of released warbands grows it could get pretty crazy. Cause each set has a couple handfuls of all new cards. It won't be much a problem for me since i'll be playing at home with friends. But for people wanting to go out and do more competitive things then it makes it more painful. I guess this was kind of inevitable though.
I'll echo Thargrim's statement, I'll be playing casually at home, so the "chase neutral card" isn't a huge deal for me, but that is a bummer for people that want to play competitively. That said I don't believe it will be as bad as X-Wing for a few reasons.
1) The chief reason is that your card is going to be one card in 12 or 20 (depending on the deck) that you may not even draw, or draw at an inopportune time compared to an upgrade or pilot that starts the game in play and has X ability from the get go. 2) And this is more speculative, I imagine GW will want people to play faction specific cards, so I think each faction's most powerful cards will be faction specific, and in deck building you are supposed to supplement them with neutral cards. I could be totally wrong on this, but to me that seems like the way they would go about it.
The real issue in my mind is when a bunch of expansions come out and there are a ton of "chase" neutral cards.
BoLS just put out a couple of unboxing videos for the Orcs and Undead expansions yesterday.
None of the neutral cards look particularly exciting that I can tell. It's a whole lot of "Get 1+" kind of stuff, or "Hold Objective 1 & 2, get 2 VP". It's the faction specific stuff that gets a bit crazier. There does appear to be a neutral counter spell though. I can see wanting to put that in every deck.
Overall, I kind of wish there was more comprehensive deck building in the game actually. Maybe 2 copies of a card, 30 card deck minimum, 10 card objective decks. Between singletons, dice, and the relative ease of moving across the board, it seems like a super high variance game
And don't forget this is just Season One of Warhammer Underworlds.
You can look forward to Season Two invalidating all your decks and making everyone buy new ones! Probably new boards and more powerful factions too! This has been planned from the start!
Not gonna lie, GW would have to be insane to NOT put unique universal cards in each expansion.
That's just how the "card game" industry works.
What remains to be seen is how this is done, as alone, the idea is harmless.
X-wing is one of the biggest culprits of using this system poorly, essentially using it to release patches for older models they invalidated through the system or just didn't take off due to poor design choices.
I believe Shadespire has three aspects of concern; the pricing of the expansions, the nature of the expansion universal cards, and the philosophy as a whole (are the cards in the expansions better, or just different?)
I'm also hoping that we can pull out some minor conversion work on the figures, but not holding my breath. Regardless, the game looks fun and appears to hold solid promise for a steady release stream.
Conversion is limited because is importat to know who is who in the game, but I think some armies are more prone to conversion than others. Bloodreavers for example, as they are very similar, aren't that good for conversion. The Skeletons, as they have 3 skeletons that are literally grunts, I think you could basically conver them as you want and say "this 3 guys are the grunts"
While I'm not a huge fan of expansion cards in every expansion set (ala X-Wing), neither do I find it overtly offensive.
Yes, FFG (and presumably GW in the future) use it as a means of both balance and getting new tactics out on the table, but not every expansion has "must have cards" included.
Thus, competitive players do need to buy some sets they wouldn't otherwise consider, but not all of them.
I consider it an acceptable compromise between commercialism and playability.
The core set is up for preorder on the 14th releasing on the 21st and the orcs and skeletons are up for preorder on the 28th.
I am happy to see the first expansions so soon. Hopefully this means we will see the fyreslayers and skaven by the end of the year.
If they are serous about competitive play they need to get a reasonable selection of war bands out as soon as possible.
There are a couple of unboxing videos for the orcs and undead on YouTube. You can see many of the cards. At first glance there does not seem to be anything that is obviously better than the core box. Instead they seem to be supporting different play styles.
It seems we'll have 4 at launch, and 6 or 8 within the first month
2 Stormcasts, 2 Bloodbound, Fyreslayers, Skaven, Orruks, Undead.
That's a decent roster really.
Another hope I have for Shadespire is that it gives us 'previews' of factions we havent seen yet.
Well I definitely be picking this up and the first two expansions, probably the Skaven too when they get out also (not so keen on the Fireslayers). I do feel the 2nd Stormcast and Bloodboun expansions were a bit of a missed opportunity when they could have done say Tzeentch and some new AoS Aelfs or something.
As Neronoxx and RedRowan stated, this would be a perfect opportunity for GW to introduce new factions for AoS. I'd love to see some AoS specific humans and more of the Aelfs introduced in Silver Tower. Or some updated Slaves to Darkness warriors to fit with the AoS aesthetics and size. There is just a ton of potential in this game for fun flavorful little warbands.
Sabotage! wrote: Well I definitely be picking this up and the first two expansions, probably the Skaven too when they get out also (not so keen on the Fireslayers). I do feel the 2nd Stormcast and Bloodboun expansions were a bit of a missed opportunity when they could have done say Tzeentch and some new AoS Aelfs or something.
As Neronoxx and RedRowan stated, this would be a perfect opportunity for GW to introduce new factions for AoS. I'd love to see some AoS specific humans and more of the Aelfs introduced in Silver Tower. Or some updated Slaves to Darkness warriors to fit with the AoS aesthetics and size. There is just a ton of potential in this game for fun flavorful little warbands.
I seem to remember a designer interview where they said this game was designed because they had all these push fit models there and one of the guys convinced them to let him make a game for them. (In a dice tower interview maybe?)
So the factions probably weren't chosen with a game and it's faction meta in mind
Sabotage! wrote: Well I definitely be picking this up and the first two expansions, probably the Skaven too when they get out also (not so keen on the Fireslayers). I do feel the 2nd Stormcast and Bloodboun expansions were a bit of a missed opportunity when they could have done say Tzeentch and some new AoS Aelfs or something.
As Neronoxx and RedRowan stated, this would be a perfect opportunity for GW to introduce new factions for AoS. I'd love to see some AoS specific humans and more of the Aelfs introduced in Silver Tower. Or some updated Slaves to Darkness warriors to fit with the AoS aesthetics and size. There is just a ton of potential in this game for fun flavorful little warbands.
Doubling up on stormcasts and khorne kind of sucks. But then I realized how cool the two starter teams plus those could work in a four payer match. So long as the sculpts are good i'm not too bummed about it. But honestly my dream come true would be Seraphon, who haven't got any new sculpts in years and zero for AoS. I'd imagine a team of them would be 2-3 saurus and 2-3 skinks (possibly the fastest unit in game I would think). But yeah past the warbands that are confirmed i'm hoping they do more unique stuff next year and I hope they don't squander the potential.
Vorian wrote:
I seem to remember a designer interview where they said this game was designed because they had all these push fit models there and one of the guys convinced them to let him make a game for them. (In a dice tower interview maybe?)
So the factions probably weren't chosen with a game and it's faction meta in mind
Huh, I hadn't heard that, but if that's the case they definitely put the push fits to good use!
Thargrim wrote:
Doubling up on stormcasts and khorne kind of sucks. But then I realized how cool the two starter teams plus those could work in a four payer match. So long as the sculpts are good i'm not too bummed about it. But honestly my dream come true would be Seraphon, who haven't got any new sculpts in years and zero for AoS. I'd imagine a team of them would be 2-3 saurus and 2-3 skinks (possibly the fastest unit in game I would think). But yeah past the warbands that are confirmed i'm hoping they do more unique stuff next year and I hope they don't squander the potential.
That is a good point for Stormcast vs. Khorne four player games. That could make a cool themed game. I've a good feeling the models will be nice for them at least, and Khorne gets a flesh hound, which is pretty cool. It would be really awesome to see some new Seraphon. I think the old Lizard people would look much more impressive properly AoS sized and in more dynamic poses. I could see the Saurus being slow but having a ton of wounds (5 maybe?), and the Skinks would be super quick and very dodgy (2 dice dodge?), but only have a hit point or two only. A poison blowgun would be an awesome weapon for one of them. I'm with you on not squandering potential. I think they could do some really awesome stuff, particularly if the visit the factions who haven't gotten a lot of attention or none at all since AoS came out. A good smattering of new factions would be nice too. Just off the top of my head, I'd love to see AoS specific humans, some new and properly sized Slaves to Darkness warriors, a Slaanesh warband, a Tzeentch warband, new AoS Aelfs, Seraphon, some new Dispossessed. There is a pretty much a never ending fountain of cool ideas they could utilize, so here's hoping.
Cards shouldn't be an issue. Unless this game gets more popular than AoS (unlikely), there will always be people just buying for the models, and therefore, bits suppliers selling just the cards.
Chopstick wrote: A lot of rules are in the 3 downloadable pdf from the main site.
But I'm still not clear about move & charge. If a model has moved, can it charge in the following activation?
From the preview games I've watched, it seems you can't. But you can still attack, multiple times.
If an enemy model moved or charged, you know it won't be able to move anymore. So you could spend 1 activation to move one of your models close to it, then attack it multiple times in your following activations. Or you could use a move to move on an objective.
But I don't know if a move/charge prevents you from using power cards to move the model, or if the restriction on further movement only applies to activations.
Chopstick wrote: A lot of rules are in the 3 downloadable pdf from the main site.
But I'm still not clear about move & charge. If a model has moved, can it charge in the following activation?
From the preview games I've watched, it seems you can't. But you can still attack, multiple times.
If an enemy model moved or charged, you know it won't be able to move anymore. So you could spend 1 activation to move one of your models close to it, then attack it multiple times in your following activations. Or you could use a move to move on an objective.
But I don't know if a move/charge prevents you from using power cards to move the model, or if the restriction on further movement only applies to activations.
Right. So you can move, then attack a bunch. Or charge, which is a move and attack but then you are done for the turn. Charge is good if you think you can kill the target.
I enjoyed it a lot and am excited for it. It wont be anywhere close to mtg popularity like the article poster said, but if they release factions fast and support it, it could have a following and not be a wasted product like most of their board games
Right. So you can move, then attack a bunch. Or charge, which is a move and attack but then you are done for the turn. Charge is good if you think you can kill the target.
I enjoyed it a lot and am excited for it. It wont be anywhere close to mtg popularity like the article poster said, but if they release factions fast and support it, it could have a following and not be a wasted product like most of their board games
You can also guard, move then attack. according to the glossary, as long as you don't charge, you won't break the guard status.
Mr Morden wrote: So are the card just things that can be photocopied/printed out? Or are the decks something that need to be shuffled etc during play?
I saw in one of the white dwarf photos that there are themed (to each warband, just the two from the main box so far) card sleeves being released along side this game (at $8 a pack!!! ) . So, if your printer is good enough, you could probably get away with printed versions of some cards even in an official GW hosted tournament as long as they are hidden in these sleeves.
edit: No mention in the description or the article about how many sleeves are in each $8 pack...
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
If they do. The sniper Scouts are 22,50€ too, but 25$ (normal Scouts are 20€ and 25$, whyever).
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
This is my favorite description of various dollars ever. From now on, I'll be posting... 'No, that price is wrong. I think you have the GW site set to dollarydoos.'
At 30 bucks the expansions are pretty reasonable, at 25 bucks I would call them a good deal (assuming the euro price translates reasonably over to USD with GW's unconventional exchange pricing). If you can grab both expansions and a core set without a discount at a little over 100 bucks, I'm all in.
I don't know if I'd call even $25 for 4 push-fit orruks and some cards a "good deal". But it is low enough to be almost an impulse purchase and makes it really easy for people to play pick up a new warband when they're starting to tire of the one they are playing, which I think is necessary for the game to do well.
See, if you look at it vs the cost of a standard box, it's not great. If you look at it as a full expansion for a board game (which are usually $25-40), it's a good deal. They're also 4 unique sculpts with cards for that team, as well as generic cards for all teams. $25 would be an awesome price; you get FAR less in an X-Wing expansion that is 3/5 the cost of this.
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
This is my favorite description of various dollars ever. From now on, I'll be posting... 'No, that price is wrong. I think you have the GW site set to dollarydoos.'
I prefer to refer to "other dollarydoos" as "Kiwi Kash"
WUWU wrote: At 25 USD it's a snap buy. Every expansion, no problem.
Even at $30 US MSRP, it's an auto-buy for me, since finding it at a 15% or more discount is not difficult. (My usual B&M store does 15-20% off even GW stuff). Plus, the way I see it, these will give me some fun, different things to paint without having to jump into a "full army" or try to convince myself "it's for Skirmish only, really..."
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
This is my favorite description of various dollars ever. From now on, I'll be posting... 'No, that price is wrong. I think you have the GW site set to dollarydoos.'
I prefer to refer to "other dollarydoos" as "Kiwi Kash"
I have a hard time believing the expansions could be 25 bucks, that just seems too generous for GW. If they'd sell that cheap then discount sellers would have it around 20-22 bucks and in no world does that even seem possible.
Hulksmash wrote: I'd say $30 is the likely translated cost. Which is fine honestly. At that price point this could really take off.
I fully agree. That's a typical board-game expansion cost. This could really get some people into the hobby and collecting all of the first 6 warbands.
They'll have to be careful if they go that route as so far (correct me if I'm wrong) we haven't seen any evidence of a points system or other balancing mechanics beyond all the starter crews being equal. The only way solo expansions would work is if they say 'This model must be exchanged for that model'.
So you could add a new Stormcast, but it'd have to be a straight swap for one of the others. If you brought in a proper Neromancer for the skelly faction he'd be a swap for the band's leader ect. Which could work, but it'd require some delicate balancing as each model would need to be balanced perfectly with the one it replaces.
Of course, nothing to say GW won't come out with a 'points' or equivalent system later on when there's more stuff, or even just a list saying 'you must pick 3 from this list of models, 2 from this list, 1 from list list of leaders' with each group being internally balanced.
I've not really looked into the mechanics yet, but do the leaders have a significant role in affecting other models with buffs/abilities or similar? If they do, that would definitely open up things to the Warmachine/Malifaux route where a different leader changes up the dynamic of your force significantly.
If you read on the website it clearly tell you that " Each warband has its distinct character, and always consists of the same fighters," So I don't think you can't exchange anyone, even if they're from the same faction.
Paradigm wrote: I've not really looked into the mechanics yet, but do the leaders have a significant role in affecting other models with buffs/abilities or similar? If they do, that would definitely open up things to the Warmachine/Malifaux route where a different leader changes up the dynamic of your force significantly.
The two leaders from the core game are just stronger than normal dudes, and don't provide buffs (unless there are power cards we haven't see yet that do that).
I think I've read somewhere that it might be different for the skellies, with maybe the leader being able to resurrect his underlings (but I can't remember exactly what was hinted).
My guess is we'll only see the 8 warbands, without any possible swaps. And if the game is a success, GW will make a second season based on the same concepts, but with a point system or something to allow some sort of list building.
Paradigm wrote: I've not really looked into the mechanics yet, but do the leaders have a significant role in affecting other models with buffs/abilities or similar? If they do, that would definitely open up things to the Warmachine/Malifaux route where a different leader changes up the dynamic of your force significantly.
The two leaders from the core game are just stronger than normal dudes, and don't provide buffs (unless there are power cards we haven't see yet that do that).
I think I've read somewhere that it might be different for the skellies, with maybe the leader being able to resurrect his underlings (but I can't remember exactly what was hinted).
My guess is we'll only see the 8 warbands, without any possible swaps. And if the game is a success, GW will make a second season based on the same concepts, but with a point system or something to allow some sort of list building.
Every team card was available to look at in the unboxing video. The Warden from the Skeleton team have 2 special action (revive 1 dead member or move 2 members at a time if they didn't move that phase) he also have a different inspire condition (inspired after he revive other 2 times) and he had the highest damage in his team when inspired.
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
This is my favorite description of various dollars ever. From now on, I'll be posting... 'No, that price is wrong. I think you have the GW site set to dollarydoos.'
Needs to describe the US dollar as freedom dollars and the NZ dollar as Middle Earth dollars imo.
Seriously though if those prices are right I'm going to buy the skellies and the greenskins and probably many of the other expansions.
I'm in a lot of trouble if my wife ever finds out how many dollarydoos I've spent on this hobby.
The Slaanesh Lord on boob worm is 22.50€. If GW uses the same conversion as they did on him, you're looking at 30 dollari, 40 moose dollars, 44 dollarydoos and 52 other dollarydoos.
This is my favorite description of various dollars ever. From now on, I'll be posting... 'No, that price is wrong. I think you have the GW site set to dollarydoos.'
Needs to describe the US dollar as freedom dollars and the NZ dollar as Middle Earth dollars imo.
Seriously though if those prices are right I'm going to buy the skellies and the greenskins and probably many of the other expansions.
I'm in a lot of trouble if my wife ever finds out how many dollarydoos I've spent on this hobby.
Nah, I prefer to liken the great capitalist venture that is the United States of America to the mafia and we really can't let the New Zealanders have an identity of their own, now can we?
I don't know about the other teams but for essentially the same price as ten skeletons I buy seven skeletons and the card decks for them. Seems ok to me. Apparently there are some plans that this will be played at my local store, so I'll probably buy that box.
I would really prefer they keep the same models per team and not play musical chairs with the leaders.
The skellys sound cool - I had imagined before seeing rules that they might activate multiple models at a time, but after seeing the game played I think they'll rely on the support dice to gang up on people, which is more thematic for skellys.
Skeleton team have terrible 2 hex move will rely on sitting on objective and bait for charge. With abysmal damage output, limited activation and revive basicly cost an activation. I think they will be rely on the cards and wiping the enemy team to win more than Khorne or SC team (both are good without cards), same for Ironjawz team, they was considred the most aggressive team but so far they have abysmal base damage output compared to SC or Khorne. They better have some seriously good card.
Paradigm wrote: They'll have to be careful if they go that route as so far (correct me if I'm wrong) we haven't seen any evidence of a points system or other balancing mechanics beyond all the starter crews being equal. The only way solo expansions would work is if they say 'This model must be exchanged for that model'.
So you could add a new Stormcast, but it'd have to be a straight swap for one of the others. If you brought in a proper Neromancer for the skelly faction he'd be a swap for the band's leader ect. Which could work, but it'd require some delicate balancing as each model would need to be balanced perfectly with the one it replaces.
Of course, nothing to say GW won't come out with a 'points' or equivalent system later on when there's more stuff, or even just a list saying 'you must pick 3 from this list of models, 2 from this list, 1 from list list of leaders' with each group being internally balanced.
I don't think we'll see the ability to swap out models, but I DO think there is potential to simply release a new Stormcast team that has entirely different models, while generally retaining the army flavor. The current team is 3x Liberators. I could see a new team consisting of 5x Vanguard-Hunters. There are a lot of options here. If the game really takes off, there are near limitless options for expansion boxes.
No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.
At least for the upcoming new releases, I would like to see warbands from their entire range to fantasy/age of sigmar range to be represented. After the first four warbands, the next 4 warbands will be Chaos and Order again. I am interested to see if there are special rules or ways to play them with the original two.
Chopstick wrote: No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.
I was just using the number as an example. Call it 2, 3, 4, whatever. I'm just saying that the game could very easily support multiple different Stormcast Eternals teams. I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.
Kriswall wrote: I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.
While I doubt it too, a 40k version without shooting is entirely possible in the arenas of Commorragh (or an Ork pit - but the diversity would be pretty low).
A 40K style game would be super easy to do. All they have to do is to include extra dice that are designed for shooting, and then, just like the faces of the hand to hand dice handle different situations, so too could the shooting dice. The faces could be 1. Critical hit, 2. Hit, 3. Hit with supporting fire (like overwatch) with 1 supporter, 4. hit with 2 suporters. and 5, and 6 miss. Cards could modify. The board could have hexes colored to denote levels of cover. Soft cover would remove 1 shooting dice, Hard cover could remove two. That really makes taking cover important. There, done, bring on 40K Shadespire!
Chopstick wrote: No way Vanguard Hunter will be more than 3 guy, 5 is Khorne team horde level. And also they will be the only team in the game that have range weapon (aside from Kasus the chained) which give them the massive advantage that they didn't need to charge to stay agressive like almost everyone else.
I was just using the number as an example. Call it 2, 3, 4, whatever. I'm just saying that the game could very easily support multiple different Stormcast Eternals teams. I do agree that true ranged attacks would unbalance this game very quickly. That's why I don't think we'll ever see a 40k version. For many factions, ranged combat is the main damage dealer. Space Marines don't pacify planets based on the strength of their chainsword tech.
They made Betrayal at Calth (technicly speaking it's 30k), they just don't think it as a seasonal standalone game in mind when they make it, and the specialist studio didn't exist back then. so it stopped as a one-off game with only loyalist - traitor.
His Master's Voice wrote: Think I'd rather see GW embrace the 28mm Inquisitor over simply copy pasting an idea cross systems.
That would be a very different game, no? I'd be all for a Shadespire-level 40k game with very quick, tight rules that let me push a couple fancy figures around the table for an hour, tops.
That's kinda the point. There's little reason for GW to run two identical game systems, especially if they're serious about pushing the competitive aspect.
I wonder how balanced 3 or 4 player games will be.
Also having to buy two core sets sucks, unless they release a second core set with skellies + orks, but I highly doubt it.
I wonder how balanced 3 or 4 player games will be.
Also having to buy two core sets sucks, unless they release a second core set with skellies + orks, but I highly doubt it.
Hopefully, YOU aren't buying a second core set. One of the other 2-3 players should be buying that core set. If you've taken on the responsibility of buying everything for a group of gamers, you have to expect that it'll cost more than if you were only buying for one.
This is actually pretty common. Many FFG games that have a core set AND support 1-4 players require a second core set to support players 3 and 4. Lord of the Rings TCG and Arkham Horror TCG are two examples. X-Wing and Armada are designed for two players only.
I think I will make a generic board to allow multiplayer games of Underworlds.
While it may not be 40K theme, Aristeia! shares some common traits with Underworld (deck of cards, dices, hexagon grid combat) for those looking for more range/guns sci-fi squad combat.
SweetLou wrote: Anyone know what to expect the price of these undead to be?
I believe they've been more or less confirmed at 30 USD. Same for the Orks. We'll have to wait to see when the official release is announced, but with the core at 60 USD, 30 USD per expansion makes perfect sense.
Chopstick wrote: Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.
Orks fighting Orks? That's called Tuesday. Super fluffy.
Khorne Bloodbound fighting Khorne Bloodbound? Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Super fluffy.
Skellingtons fighting Skellingtons? Forge the narrative. Opposing Necromancers sending undead minions to claim some objective. Fluffy with a tiny bit of imagination.
Eternals fighting Eternals? Less clear. They have free will. They presumably get mad at each other. Also... training exercise?
Chopstick wrote: Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.
Orks fighting Orks? That's called Tuesday. Super fluffy.
Khorne Bloodbound fighting Khorne Bloodbound? Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Super fluffy.
Skellingtons fighting Skellingtons? Forge the narrative. Opposing Necromancers sending undead minions to claim some objective. Fluffy with a tiny bit of imagination.
Eternals fighting Eternals? Less clear. They have free will. They presumably get mad at each other. Also... training exercise?
They are the same characters fighting each other. The only explanation for that is comic book multiverse. Which is still lame. You'll have Gorebeard attack Gorebeard, Blooded Saek kill Blooded Saek. Which even just saying it out loud is confusing as hell. Not to mention if the paint job are similar it will be a mess.
I have never seen a X-wing player having problems with Han Solo fighting agaisn't Han Solo.
Guys, this is not a "narrative" game. This is the first 100% competitive GW game. That kind of thing doesn't matter.
Yeah, seeing mirror matches in this game as an issue is odd to sa the least. You know , you can call your minis anything you want, and make up any fluff for them as well, right?
I really want to get myself those orks and convert them to hell.. Making sure, it`s still clear, what class they are of course.
Fango wrote: Alright, let's see a leak of the Skaven warband models already!
I'm hoping they'll be shown off around when it goes up for pre order. With the other 2 warbands also going up for pre order at the end of the month i'd expect more significant teasers of the later teams fairly soon.
Chopstick wrote: Meh, duplicate teams fighting eachother are boring. Not to mention it's weird and unfluffy.
Orks fighting Orks? That's called Tuesday. Super fluffy.
Khorne Bloodbound fighting Khorne Bloodbound? Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows. Super fluffy.
Skellingtons fighting Skellingtons? Forge the narrative. Opposing Necromancers sending undead minions to claim some objective. Fluffy with a tiny bit of imagination.
Eternals fighting Eternals? Less clear. They have free will. They presumably get mad at each other. Also... training exercise?
They are the same characters fighting each other. The only explanation for that is comic book multiverse. Which is still lame. You'll have Gorebeard attack Gorebeard, Blooded Saek kill Blooded Saek. Which even just saying it out loud is confusing as hell. Not to mention if the paint job are similar it will be a mess.
Shadespire is the city of mirrors or something. People just fight their evil twins.
Galas wrote: I have never seen a X-wing player having problems with Han Solo fighting agaisn't Han Solo.
Guys, this is not a "narrative" game. This is the first 100% competitive GW game. That kind of thing doesn't matter.
This.
This is not a narrative game. There are no narrative missions. There is no narrative play. There are not three ways to play. There is exactly one play format, which allows for 2-4 players. What I've seen so far from this game is VERY unlike the GW we know. It IS almost exactly like something FFG would put out.
Changeling rallied a group of Stormcast, pretending his "mirror" is the evil version. Done. Both versions think they're fighting a false group of Stormcasts, but they are all Stormcasts except the changeling. Makes it a tragic fight, as all stormcast lose.
I really like what I've seen so far. The game seems incredibly simple while having a large amount of variety with future expansions.
Something people seem to missing, sure it CURRENTLY doesn't have narrative and growth play, but that doesn't mean that GW can't release a Campaign book/rule-set down the line. Give it some time before you declare DOA for anything other than tournament games.
Had a quick sneak peak at my LGS' demo copy this evening and I have to say it looks very nice. They're going to be running demos at the weekend but from a quick flip through it looks quite playable and the minis are lovely!
How could this possibly have narrative/campaign stuff? It's a MOBA in boardgame form, or 'Team Gorechosen'. Plus they already have a battle system for narrative games I hear... ;-)
JohnnyHell wrote: How could this possibly have narrative/campaign stuff? It's a MOBA in boardgame form, or 'Team Gorechosen'. Plus they already have a battle system for narrative games I hear... ;-)
How does any other single play game have narrative/campaign stuff? You add onto it.
X-Wing and Armada BOTH have Campaign rules through the Corellian Conflict box for Armada. All it takes is a little creativity and you can come up with all kinds of different things for the game to have.
Yes, AoS has a narrative system, but it doesn't at the skirmish level, which is the itch this game scratches.
JohnnyHell wrote: How could this possibly have narrative/campaign stuff? It's a MOBA in boardgame form, or 'Team Gorechosen'. Plus they already have a battle system for narrative games I hear... ;-)
How does any other single play game have narrative/campaign stuff? You add onto it.
X-Wing and Armada BOTH have Campaign rules through the Corellian Conflict box for Armada. All it takes is a little creativity and you can come up with all kinds of different things for the game to have.
Yes, AoS has a narrative system, but it doesn't at the skirmish level, which is the itch this game scratches.
This isn't a skirmish game, strictly - they have AoS Skirmish for that, which has campaign rules. I just feel you'll be disappointed if you look for additions they won't make because they exist for one of their other AoS formats already.
I actively hope they don't make campaign material for this. If GW wants to capture the FFG (X-Wing/Armada/Etc) player base, they desperately need a game that is 100% unambiguous, right ruled competition. They need a game where you can walk into any store in any country and get a 'standard' game. They need a game where you don't have to ask 'which tournament rules are we using' before attending an event.
I'm really hoping this is that game. It looks promising, but I'm just sort of assuming that GW will somehow botch this. To get this right, they need to have organized play kits with non-game impacting prizes just like FFG does. They need to give people a reason to play in store events.
Kriswall wrote: I actively hope they don't make campaign material for this. If GW wants to capture the FFG (X-Wing/Armada/Etc) player base, they desperately need a game that is 100% unambiguous, right ruled competition. They need a game where you can walk into any store in any country and get a 'standard' game. They need a game where you don't have to ask 'which tournament rules are we using' before attending an event.
I'm really hoping this is that game. It looks promising, but I'm just sort of assuming that GW will somehow botch this. To get this right, they need to have organized play kits with non-game impacting prizes just like FFG does. They need to give people a reason to play in store events.
Kriswall wrote: I actively hope they don't make campaign material for this. If GW wants to capture the FFG (X-Wing/Armada/Etc) player base, they desperately need a game that is 100% unambiguous, right ruled competition. They need a game where you can walk into any store in any country and get a 'standard' game. They need a game where you don't have to ask 'which tournament rules are we using' before attending an event.
I'm really hoping this is that game. It looks promising, but I'm just sort of assuming that GW will somehow botch this. To get this right, they need to have organized play kits with non-game impacting prizes just like FFG does. They need to give people a reason to play in store events.
Nice. Now hopefully they'll make similar packs available to retailers who want to run little events (probably without the big glass trophy, of course) for those who can't make it to those "big events."
Kriswall wrote: I actively hope they don't make campaign material for this. If GW wants to capture the FFG (X-Wing/Armada/Etc) player base, they desperately need a game that is 100% unambiguous, right ruled competition. They need a game where you can walk into any store in any country and get a 'standard' game. They need a game where you don't have to ask 'which tournament rules are we using' before attending an event.
I'm really hoping this is that game. It looks promising, but I'm just sort of assuming that GW will somehow botch this. To get this right, they need to have organized play kits with non-game impacting prizes just like FFG does. They need to give people a reason to play in store events.
While interesting, this is completely and totally useless to the overwhelming majority of the player base. Las Vegas is roughly 2,500 miles away from where I live. Realistically speaking, nobody I know will want to take the time off work and spend tons of money to make this trip.
What I'm really hoping to see is an FFG style organized play kit made available at the store level. The entire player base needs the opportunity to head down to the local store and maybe win some acrylic tokens. If we don't get store level event support, most players are effectively getting no event support.
NZ pre orders are now up, card sleeves look pretty cool. Really excited to get my hands on this..hopefully they show off more warband teasers soon i'd love a glimpse at the Skaven and Fyreslayers.
While interesting, this is completely and totally useless to the overwhelming majority of the player base. Las Vegas is roughly 2,500 miles away from where I live. Realistically speaking, nobody I know will want to take the time off work and spend tons of money to make this trip.
You...you know you could say this about literally any place in the world, right?
Well look like Garrek and Steelheart have AOS rule....
And they are Liberator and Bloodreaver, it's funny people think they will become heroes and fight alongside Gorechosen, Mighty Lord of Khorne, any Knight-stormcast or Celestant Prime. Get in line with the other, boys!
Chopstick wrote: Well look like Garrek and Steelheart have AOS rule....
And they are Liberator and Bloodreaver, it's funny people think they will become heroes and fight alongside Gorechosen, Mighty Lord of Khorne, any Knight-stormcast or Celestant Prime.
Yeah these are just warbands/looters/trapped bandits etc not lords/heroes and gods among men. They are a lot more characterful sculpts than a typical band of warriors but the nature of the game allows for it, that's why.
Yeah these are just warbands/looters/trapped bandits etc not lords/heroes and gods among men. They are a lot more characterful sculpts than a typical band of warriors but the nature of the game allows for it, that's why.
But if the lore in the book are correct, Skaven and Fyreslayer leader are actual Heroes. They are Warlord and RuneFather.
I don't even think their stat in Shadespire will do them justice considered they should be much much stronger than a normal goons.
Yeah these are just warbands/looters/trapped bandits etc not lords/heroes and gods among men. They are a lot more characterful sculpts than a typical band of warriors but the nature of the game allows for it, that's why.
But if the lore in the book are correct, Skaven and Fyreslayer leader are actual Heroes. They are Warlord and RuneFather.
I don't even think their stat in Shadespire will do them justice considered they should be much much stronger than a normal goons.
That is true, I guess we'll have to wait and see regarding those two. I couldn't imagine them being overly powerful in Shadespire. Duardin tend to be pretty good fighters but the Skaven should have an advantage in speed and numbers(guessing 5-6 rats) plus some tricks as opposed to individual strength.
What I'm really hoping to see is an FFG style organized play kit made available at the store level. The entire player base needs the opportunity to head down to the local store and maybe win some acrylic tokens. If we don't get store level event support, most players are effectively getting no event support.
They've already announced monthly and quarterly OP support for stores, and whilst I've not seen details of the packs yet, the tournament guidelines are already available to download.
Yeah these are just warbands/looters/trapped bandits etc not lords/heroes and gods among men. They are a lot more characterful sculpts than a typical band of warriors but the nature of the game allows for it, that's why.
But if the lore in the book are correct, Skaven and Fyreslayer leader are actual Heroes. They are Warlord and RuneFather.
I don't even think their stat in Shadespire will do them justice considered they should be much much stronger than a normal goons.
That is true, I guess we'll have to wait and see regarding those two. I couldn't imagine them being overly powerful in Shadespire. Duardin tend to be pretty good fighters but the Skaven should have an advantage in speed and numbers(guessing 5-6 rats) plus some tricks as opposed to individual strength.
A Skaven elite team with Warlord, his personal champion and either an hireling Assassin or Rat Ogre bodyguard or warlock could be hilarious. Maybe even leave the champ out for a truly elite two man team. Can't have underlings too strong-strong that might stab you in the back, yes-yes.
£40 is reasonable for a boxed game, and with a discount it's a frankly piffling £32.
It's obvious competitor X-Wing is around the same price, usually a wee bit cheaper. Though Shadespire has an arguable advantage in that it comes with your play area included. Whilst a mat isn't essential for X-Wing, it doesn't half enhance the feel of the game.
Both starter sets seem designed to whet the whistle, and get you buying more.
You're essentially paying for character models aswell. Well worth it my opinion. They could have easily sold the SC characters separately for like 15-20 each. Detail is amazing.
This video is surprisingly well done. I really think GW is serious about this game. They are certainly putting more effort into promoting it than any of their recent games.
This video is surprisingly well done. I really think GW is serious about this game. They are certainly putting more effort into promoting it than any of their recent games.
The video miss 2 points : the condition for breaking Guard status, and the most important one : both spent and unspent glory points count in the end.
This video is surprisingly well done. I really think GW is serious about this game. They are certainly putting more effort into promoting it than any of their recent games.
This looks and sounds just like FFG's videos down to the narrator sounding like the same guy who's done things like BB Team Manager, LOTR LCG, etc.
On an FFG-related question, does anyone know if this provides enough dice so that you don't need to buy a separate dice set for regularly encountered situations?
FFG loves to sell a base game with, say, 3 dice for each player but you regularly need a 4th dice for each player because of modifiers. FFG help players with this convenience issue by selling dice packs separately for many of their games for another $10 or so.
This looks and sounds just like FFG's videos down to the narrator sounding like the same guy who's done things like BB Team Manager, LOTR LCG, etc.
Well, the entire thing certainly feels like a FFG-GW post-divorce stand off, with FFG throwing Star Wars at wargaming (and that fantasy-X-wing-game, if that is still a thing) and GW throwing Age of Sigmar at miniature-deckbuilding-hybrids with silly acrylic tokens and alt-art cards for braggin' rights.
Impressive video - nicely done.
Not quite sure if I want to play / buy yet - but tempted as I like the models and the possibility of using Heroscape Terrain boards.
The pure competative nature is putting me my off though - for instance in the warbands - not ability to make up your own force.
I was talking to my local GW's manager when pre-ordering, and he told me Shadespire will not be supported in the GW shops.
Basically they won't be organizing tournaments or reserving table for the game, and will not have boxes of the game on display in the shop (apart from the release). He also said GW intends to create a gaming community in other FLGS, where they're more about playing than selling.
Also, I got a pack with all the hero cards for the two warbands in the core game (the same cards you get in the box, but with a slightly different artwork). Another GW I know also gives them away to people buying the game there.
fresus wrote: I was talking to my local GW's manager when pre-ordering, and he told me Shadespire will not be supported in the GW shops.
Basically they won't be organizing tournaments or reserving table for the game, and will not have boxes of the game on display in the shop (apart from the release). He also said GW intends to create a gaming community in other FLGS, where they're more about playing than selling.
Also, I got a pack with all the hero cards for the two warbands in the core game (the same cards you get in the box, but with a slightly different artwork). Another GW I know also gives them away to people buying the game there.
It seems your manager didn't read their managers guide. It quite clearly says in the managers guide that in store organised play will begin in January.
Dont really see why they made new minis for this game, since they are so similar to the nkrmal ones (bar maybe the undead). Game look pretty cool though
streetsamurai wrote: Dont really see why they made new minis for this game, since they are so similar to the nkrmal ones (bar maybe the undead). Game look pretty cool though
Supposedly in an interview earlier this year, a designer revealed that someone created Shadespire because they had models laying around that lost their spot in the release lineup. So it sounds like the models predate the game, rather than the other way around.
Whether thats just stormcast and bloodbound I have no clue.
Today I have run the demostration of Shadespire in my store, and everyone liked the game. The only exception is the Critical Success system, for most players it feels stupid for a critical die to have priority over 2 or 3 normal success. No doubt the deck's brings a powerful strategic point to the game, hopefully they will soon take out the four remaining bands
privateer4hire wrote: On an FFG-related question, does anyone know if this provides enough dice so that you don't need to buy a separate dice set for regularly encountered situations?
FFG loves to sell a base game with, say, 3 dice for each player but you regularly need a 4th dice for each player because of modifiers. FFG help players with this convenience issue by selling dice packs separately for many of their games for another $10 or so.
You get five attack and three defence dice. I don't think it's possible in the game so far to need more dice.
streetsamurai wrote: Dont really see why they made new minis for this game, since they are so similar to the nkrmal ones (bar maybe the undead). Game look pretty cool though
Supposedly in an interview earlier this year, a designer revealed that someone created Shadespire because they had models laying around that lost their spot in the release lineup. So it sounds like the models predate the game, rather than the other way around.
Whether thats just stormcast and bloodbound I have no clue.
Remember the little AoS sprues (5 Blood guys, 3 Stormcast, whatever)? It was those sitting around. New miniatures specifically for the game came later.
I'm not so sure, as those are just recuts of the starter box contents, and I understood that the sprues were things that *had not* been released/did not have a release planned out.
Although, the alternative does seem most likely.
They talk about the miniatures predating in the first couple of minutes here.
A quick and weird insight into their design process.
"Can we make this?"
"I think so..."
"Spend the money and find out"
...
"Okay, so it turns out we can. What next?"
"Eh, I don't know. Just forget about it."
...
More like,
"I wonder how good we could make some push fit stuff for AoS"
"They turned out really well"
"We could use those for a game rather than just release them as part of AoS"
I didn't notice that on the first time through.
space lizards already.
, 2 of them hit for 1 damage, Was expecting all of them hitting for 2 considered they have the highest attack stat.
) . So, if your printer is good enough, you could probably get away with printed versions of some cards even in an official 
