I'm guessing an Engineering Skaven (We've had Normal, Ninja and Plague so far) versus New Style Stormcast starter set.
Just wish they'd start breaking up those 2 player sets again. Been waiting ages for the trio of Stormcast Wizards (Who probably won't get a release now they've nuked that part of the range), and that trio of Slannashi demons.
aku-chan wrote: I'm guessing an Engineering Skaven (We've had Normal, Ninja and Plague so far) versus New Style Stormcast starter set.
Just wish they'd start breaking up those 2 player sets again. Been waiting ages for the trio of Stormcast Wizards (Who probably won't get a release now they've nuked that part of the range), and that trio of Slannashi demons.
Stormcast wizards are confirmed to be getting an individual release with the new battletome.
I think the rumoured mini doomwheel will be in the Skaven warband.
aku-chan wrote: I'm guessing an Engineering Skaven (We've had Normal, Ninja and Plague so far) versus New Style Stormcast starter set.
Just wish they'd start breaking up those 2 player sets again. Been waiting ages for the trio of Stormcast Wizards (Who probably won't get a release now they've nuked that part of the range), and that trio of Slannashi demons.
Did Ephilim's Pandaemonium ever see a standalone release?
aku-chan wrote: I'm guessing an Engineering Skaven (We've had Normal, Ninja and Plague so far) versus New Style Stormcast starter set.
Just wish they'd start breaking up those 2 player sets again. Been waiting ages for the trio of Stormcast Wizards (Who probably won't get a release now they've nuked that part of the range), and that trio of Slannashi demons.
Did Ephilim's Pandaemonium ever see a standalone release?
No. Neither did the Deepkin. I hope both of those get a separate release soon.
I'm very interested to see how the new game plays. I didn't have much of an issue with it previously, but I know a number of people who felt overwhelmed by everything we needed to track.
I am as well. I didn't get into it before as i wasn't interested in a deck builder. But we'll see what goes on with this version and how they handle all the previous bands.
I actually really like the SCE in this one, especially daggers to the right. Also a not so hidden preview of what the Vanguard Chamber is going to get update to.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I am as well. I didn't get into it before as i wasn't interested in a deck builder. But we'll see what goes on with this version and how they handle all the previous bands.
For the last two years you were quite readily able to play Underworlds without any deck-building. It was one of the two main ways to play the game. Most Warhammer Worlds events were this format (i.e. Relic).
aku-chan wrote: I'm guessing an Engineering Skaven (We've had Normal, Ninja and Plague so far) versus New Style Stormcast starter set.
Just wish they'd start breaking up those 2 player sets again. Been waiting ages for the trio of Stormcast Wizards (Who probably won't get a release now they've nuked that part of the range), and that trio of Slannashi demons.
Did Ephilim's Pandaemonium ever see a standalone release?
No. Neither did the Deepkin. I hope both of those get a separate release soon.
Hmmmm, mixed feelings on my end. I like they are removing some of the "feels-bad" rules like crits being a sort of all or nothing rule, but I really dislike that they're changing the card art to just pictures of the models and that unique faction cards don't seem to be a thing anymore in the new edition. Likewise with it being one game board, it seems to imply its going to be more of a Warcry lite. I know some warbands have already been rotated out, but it seems like quite a few won't make the cut for the new edition.
Whilst an overhaul is needed there are several things that would gel for me as someone who has every release except for dice and card sleeves.
Also as a player who has been ready to stop collecting for a couple years due to it essentially being a dead game locally (More people play Star Wars armada on a weekly basis than there have been players at my FLGS in the last 2 years).
1: An appropriately priced box of cards for every warband released so far. I know they will be online but decent cards over print outs would be appreciated.
2: Reduce the price as an entry game?
I am the only player I know of in a town of 150,000. There are others with sets and warbands but there has been zero organised play for almost 3 years. If I want a tournament I have to drive 150km to my local 1.5 million population town to get one.
I'm not sure what else I want or need.
I love the models.
The game play is good.
Games are very quick and very variable.
No one wants to play it....
The new box seems like it has exactly the same contents as Wintermaw (not counting the 2 Warband Warscroll Cards) so it should not be more expensive but knowing GW it will be.
They say we will no longer get Warband decks. That means probably the Warband boxes will just have the miniatures. It's a chance to lower the prices but again knowing GW they will just keep the same prices for less product.
They also say that all the previous decks and boards are not compatible with the new edition but the miniatures will be. And we will get free rules for most of them
We will be able to buy 16 old warbands, 2 new in the core box and 2 new separately with the release on the new edition.
Also no new starter every six months, which is good but that means if you want to play the game you have to buy Embergard.
In terms of gameplay they say the rules are streamlined and it will have the underdog mechanic.
The worst part is that they replaced the art on the cards with photos...
At least the models are still really good.
I’m almost certainly getting the box, as I want those Skaven. That we’re also seeing a game reset means , unlike its previous editions, I don’t think I’ll end up feeling disadvantaged by not being able to get older cards.
Yeah I'm also tempted to give Underworlds a try with the new edition, it seems like they are reducing/eliminating the "chase" aspect of it with regards to chasing cards and deck building, etc?
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah I'm also tempted to give Underworlds a try with the new edition, it seems like they are reducing/eliminating the "chase" aspect of it with regards to chasing cards and deck building, etc?
GW eliminated the “chase” aspect 2 years ago. I hope you like the new edition. Gameplay is solid, but it will be significantly blander (in terms of faction flavor reflected by the rules) than it used to be… which is why I’m very likely out (despite owning everything and playing since Shadespire).
The models are good but i hate how they cheapened out on the card art. It was one of the things that i loved about Underworlds. GW you made 200mil in profit last year get some damn artists ffs.
I'm not sure it is cheaping out on the card art. It's a definite accessibility upgrade to have images of the mini rather than artwork, especially for a game designed to be more broadly accessible, and to encourage people to buy and play multiple teams.
Yeah you can learn which mini goes with which card fairly quickly, especially if you're already familiar with the faction and units. But if you're just dipping into a faction for the first time, just to play the Underworlds warband, it could get quite confusing, at least with the larger warbands.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't really mind it on the character cards, but hopefully they keep the art and flavour text on the actual game-play cards.
Sorry to tell you this but we already saw some gameplay cards and they look like this:
So while there is still a line of flavor text, the images are all of models and no longer artwork
Interesting. I mean that has to be an aesthetic choice, and a weird one at that. Because for those cards, they could have just re-used existing artwork from the previous edition.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: Whilst an overhaul is needed there are several things that would gel for me as someone who has every release except for dice and card sleeves.
Also as a player who has been ready to stop collecting for a couple years due to it essentially being a dead game locally (More people play Star Wars armada on a weekly basis than there have been players at my FLGS in the last 2 years).
1: An appropriately priced box of cards for every warband released so far. I know they will be online but decent cards over print outs would be appreciated.
2: Reduce the price as an entry game?
I am the only player I know of in a town of 150,000. There are others with sets and warbands but there has been zero organised play for almost 3 years. If I want a tournament I have to drive 150km to my local 1.5 million population town to get one.
I'm not sure what else I want or need.
I love the models.
The game play is good.
Games are very quick and very variable.
No one wants to play it....
The only place I've ever seen Underworlds sold is in dedicated wargame indies and GAME.
Yet it was designed as something they'd sell in Waterstones to make Age Of Sigmar more popular, but ended up on the FOMO treadmill for serious wargamers. My local game cafe has every other game being played under the sun - D&D, Magic: The Gathering, Ratan, Exploding Kittens. You name it they probably have it on the shelf. But nothing for Underworlds.
What is needed is simply "Warhammer: Underworlds - Core Set". So long as the match up is the same as the current Stormcasts vs "Villian-of-the-edition" of AOS, then they don't need multiple season boxes. Expansions, yes, that include new boards, models and game modes, but they need a recognisable product on the shelves of major retailers. Just update it alongside a new edition of AOS every three years.
What is needed is simply "Warhammer: Underworlds - Core Set". So long as the match up is the same as the current Stormcasts vs "Villian-of-the-edition" of AOS, then they don't need multiple season boxes. Expansions, yes, that include new boards, models and game modes, but they need a recognisable product on the shelves of major retailers. Just update it alongside a new edition of AOS every three years.
And it seems this is exactly what they are doing now since they said:
This new Core Game will be your starting point for the entire new edition, which means no new season starter set every six months.
What is needed is simply "Warhammer: Underworlds - Core Set". So long as the match up is the same as the current Stormcasts vs "Villian-of-the-edition" of AOS, then they don't need multiple season boxes. Expansions, yes, that include new boards, models and game modes, but they need a recognisable product on the shelves of major retailers. Just update it alongside a new edition of AOS every three years.
And it seems this is exactly what they are doing now since they said:
This new Core Game will be your starting point for the entire new edition, which means no new season starter set every six months.
Just wondering does this mean the new Embergard starter set miniatures will be available later on separately? Or only in this box set?
grahamdbailey wrote: Anyone any suggestions what to do with older cards and boards?
Play first edition?
I suspect unless the new edition is just obviously loads better, the first edition cards will retain value. Especially as the minis have been made easily available a lot more than the cards have been.
Though if I'm wrong and anyone wants to send me their now completely useless Rivals of the Mirrored City cards I'd be happy to help them out!
And it seems this is exactly what they are doing now since they said:
This new Core Game will be your starting point for the entire new edition, which means no new season starter set every six months.
Which is good, but once again will it be sold through more retailers this time so that it reaches the attention of the wider tabletop crowd? If they can do that and bring the price down to a sensible £55, Underworlds will do wonders for GW.
And it seems this is exactly what they are doing now since they said:
This new Core Game will be your starting point for the entire new edition, which means no new season starter set every six months.
Which is good, but once again will it be sold through more retailers this time so that it reaches the attention of the wider tabletop crowd? If they can do that and bring the price down to a sensible £55, Underworlds will do wonders for GW.
Quoted for truth!! The main thing that has always held down the player base for WU has been GW’s myopic marketing strategy of selling a boardgame to its own miniature gamers instead of yo the broader boardgame market (where many other tactical arena combat games have been thriving… looking at you Unmatched, Godtear and Wildlands).
I missed the part about the no season starters every 6 months (or rather I misread it and understood it to mean the opposite of that). That makes the game even more compelling as I often found the pairings in the box sets to be lackluster but the implication was you needed to drop $100 on the set to continue playing.
And it seems this is exactly what they are doing now since they said:
This new Core Game will be your starting point for the entire new edition, which means no new season starter set every six months.
Which is good, but once again will it be sold through more retailers this time so that it reaches the attention of the wider tabletop crowd? If they can do that and bring the price down to a sensible £55, Underworlds will do wonders for GW.
When Underworlds first launched they did exactly this. It was £40 / $60, they sent out copies to board game reviewers like The Dice Tower and got a bunch of playthrough videos done. Targeted board game shops (who they had a small in with from Silver Tower at that point), emphasised the push fit models...
It did okay. Reviewed really well, commended for the price point. Weirdly I think it may have been the deckbuilding that killed it for the board game crowd (the first few seasons, warbands didn't even come with enough cards for a legal deck, nevermind one that was playable and balanced). By the time Rivals came in, and all the warbands had a deck that worked out of the box... well, the boxes were twice the price of what they were before.
It wouldn't surprise me if one problem GW keeps having is that they release for the casual market and then the die-hard regular GW market scoops it up and dominates the market; which results in GW pricing and marketing towrad those customers and what was once an affordable outreach product is now a regular more expensive in-brand one
“ Now, only warbands and cards that you can actually buy from Warhammer.com, a Warhammer shop or independent trader can be used in events making it fairer and more accessible for everybody.”
The models on half the cards aren’t available though. Are we expecting them to get a re release or would GW really make cards for OOP warbands?
They said 16 are getting physical rereleases along with the two starter ones and two new ones, while all 58 will have digital rules. So presumably those 42 others will not be legal for events.
Of the 20 we'll have physical releases, I imagine some will rotate out of event legality periodically; probably depending on the rate at which new stuff gets released.
I suppose the thing to do is guess which 16 will be legal; MAYBE that's what gets represented on the four decks in the new box?
GaroRobe wrote: “ Now, only warbands and cards that you can actually buy from Warhammer.com, a Warhammer shop or independent trader can be used in events making it fairer and more accessible for everybody.”
The models on half the cards aren’t available though. Are we expecting them to get a re release or would GW really make cards for OOP warbands?
GW made up full army books for a bunch of Legacy factions for Old World, so yeah... I can see them making digital only cards for a bunch of out of print warbands.
GaroRobe wrote: “ Now, only warbands and cards that you can actually buy from Warhammer.com, a Warhammer shop or independent trader can be used in events making it fairer and more accessible for everybody.”
The models on half the cards aren’t available though. Are we expecting them to get a re release or would GW really make cards for OOP warbands?
There are Underworlds events?
In Australia it has degenerated into a play at home or quick games at a games club, but events are very few and far between.
Being able to use all warbands is great, even if it is in digital format..
Telling people who own older warbands they cannot take them at sanctioned events is not a positive... then again the TO can do whatever they want and allow any and all warbands.
This will end up like Mage Knight, Warmachine, Xwing, Wild West Exodus and many other games that moved to a second edition and invalidated much of 1st edition. Game = dead in a year or two.
1st edition slowed with each release following each starter post covid. The slowing will continue at a faster pace with this decision. Pictures of models instead of art is a poor choice and cheapens the game too.
I'll buy this edition for the models, but 1st edition was and is a great system I'll enjoy for decades to come. I'm ok with this game dying though as I have all 1st edition. Collect it all and you can enjoy it even if the game is over.
455_PWR wrote: 1st edition was and is a great system I'll enjoy for decades to come. I'm ok with this game dying though as I have all 1st edition. Collect it all and you can enjoy it even if the game is over.
Absolutely this. I have almost a full set of Warbands from 1st edition, and I was really enthusiastic about the re-releasing new card sets for the early Warbands, which helped me fill a few gaps.
Then GW do that GW scorched earth thing and burn it all down to start over. I jumped off that bandwagon with 10th 40K, and this is my exit point for Underworlds. But I am a self-confessed garagehammer guy, who doesn’t go to tournaments, etc, so I imagine I’m not really the target market for 2nd Ed Underworlds anyway.
That's my thoughts. I own all the cards and models released so far a d I have plenty to paint. My local group is very chilled and we're pretty much all happy to play the current edition going forward and enjoy.
All in I'm mildly curious about the new stuff but also happy to just call my collection complete now
455_PWR wrote: This will end up like Mage Knight, Warmachine, Xwing, Wild West Exodus and many other games that moved to a second edition and invalidated much of 1st edition. Game = dead in a year or two.
I fear this will be the case. Strong X-Wing 2nd Ed vibes indeed.
Yeah GW has one big advantage that the other named firms don't in that its not their only game. In fact its a side game.
The other firms if they make a mistake its either their main bread winner or a significant title in their roster. So it failing is a huge financial problem in terms of income.
GW can have Underworlds entirely fail and still keep going very healthily. The models wouldn't even have to go to waste as they can be rolled into AoS packaging and sent out through that - problem solved.
Indeed that fact alone means that GW ensures there's always going to be a base line of sales for AoS fans not just Underworld fans.
It's not just that strong models will sell a game, its that the firm behind isn't reliant on the income. Meanwhile Warmachine failing to sell well is a huge blow for PP as there goes their primary product line and biggest investment.
The big difference between this and xwing 2nd edition is that in xwing 2.0 there were rather extensive and exorbitant costs passed on to the consumer to purchase replacement cardboard for their otherwise invalidated collections and no lower cost alternatives provided. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
chaos0xomega wrote: The big difference between this and xwing 2nd edition is that in xwing 2.0 there were rather extensive and exorbitant costs passed on to the consumer to purchase replacement cardboard for their otherwise invalidated collections and no lower cost alternatives provided. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
Unless you want to play in events, which will likely require the physical products instead of printed off Warscroll and fighter cards.
It is pretty much the same thing as X-Wing 2.0, since with 2.0 you could print the cards off of any army builder and proxy them at home.
GW has stated that only 16 of the 58 old warbands will be matched play legal, so the rest are all legends. The only way to get the new Rivals decks is going to be in the new starter, so you are already looking around probably $140-160 just to use your old stuff, which is about the same cost as three of the Conversion kits for X-Wing 2.0 when that dropped.
And the only way to get the physical warscroll cards to likely be matched legal is going to be buying the same 16 old warbands you already have. And with warbands losing their faction decks, we are likely going to be paying the same, if not more, per box for less.
There is a new starter set, and 3 releases of 2 new warbands each throughout 2025
To get started, the later warbands are being re-released.
"Sixteen current warbands will be rereleased shortly after launch across four boxes, one for each Grand Alliance containing all the relevant fighter and warscroll cards. "
But also for exisiting collectors:
"Avid Warhammer Underworlds players who already own many of these warbands, will be able to buy the Warbands of Embergard card set, which contains every fighter and warband warscroll card for all 16 warbands, bringing your existing collection into the new edition with ease. But beware, it will only be available while stocks last."
The Phazer wrote: Selling most of the range only in boxes of the four seems a guaranteed way to make sure this edition fails.
If groups of players split the boxes, it isn't as bad.
But players are often an isolated bunch, coming out only to get games in, and sharing isn't something we're known for.
And, what used to be pocket-money (if we're lucky) prices, they won't be that any more. Drive-by sales will drop.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't really see that. If you're a newbie i think i'd rather see a cheaper box of a selection of warbands rather than a legion of single packs.
Just wait to see the prices of a 4-pack, or the pairs. Those pairs will be prices around the previous season set, but without the boards and dice.
I was excited until the caffeine kicked in and I realized those were bundles, not individual bands being re-released. There are ones I would have bought individually, but I can't see getting gouged for 1 or 2 bands out of four 4.
KidCthulhu wrote: I was excited until the caffeine kicked in and I realized those were bundles, not individual bands being re-released. There are ones I would have bought individually, but I can't see getting gouged for 1 or 2 bands out of four 4.
People will sell them for like $30 on eBay, which is cheaper than they’d be individually from GW, even before the price hikes
There is a new starter set, and 3 releases of 2 new warbands each throughout 2025
I read it of 3 releases of 1 warband each for 2025. Which would be a massive slowdown if true from the 8 warbands a year we've been getting in the current system.* I may even pick this up if it's going to be more manageable.
It's also not clear if the new rivals decks are going to come with the warbands or be separate releases. If separate that may be how they keep the prices down while still putting them up, if that makes sense.
*though may just be the way they've done the diagram as they also talk about "first part of 2025"
KidCthulhu wrote: I was excited until the caffeine kicked in and I realized those were bundles, not individual bands being re-released. There are ones I would have bought individually, but I can't see getting gouged for 1 or 2 bands out of four 4.
People will sell them for like $30 on eBay, which is cheaper than they’d be individually from GW, even before the price hikes
Been a while since I bought some underworld models. Dont play the game but the chaos bundle looks great for side painting projects and I dont have any of them.
There is a new starter set, and 3 releases of 2 new warbands each throughout 2025
I read it of 3 releases of 1 warband each for 2025. Which would be a massive slowdown if true from the 8 warbands a year we've been getting in the current system.* I may even pick this up if it's going to be more manageable.
It's also not clear if the new rivals decks are going to come with the warbands or be separate releases. If separate that may be how they keep the prices down while still putting them up, if that makes sense.
*though may just be the way they've done the diagram as they also talk about "first part of 2025"
I agree that it reads as 3 single warband releases
There is a new starter set, and 3 releases of 2 new warbands each throughout 2025
I read it of 3 releases of 1 warband each for 2025. Which would be a massive slowdown if true from the 8 warbands a year we've been getting in the current system.* I may even pick this up if it's going to be more manageable.
It's also not clear if the new rivals decks are going to come with the warbands or be separate releases. If separate that may be how they keep the prices down while still putting them up, if that makes sense.
*though may just be the way they've done the diagram as they also talk about "first part of 2025"
I agree that it reads as 3 single warband releases
Presumably they'll get supplemented by the re-release of the older teams.
Roadmap and older bands. I have to say, i like the look of those four packs. Gonna have to grab the chaos and destruction one.
Also nice to have a big pack of cards for people who already own them and the digital download for the others
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like Ephilim's Pandaemonium is the only warband to NOT get its own standalone release. I really want that warband for my Tzeentch collection, but I already have Khagra's Ravagers and have no desire to collect the Slaanesh or Khorne warband.
Roadmap and older bands. I have to say, i like the look of those four packs. Gonna have to grab the chaos and destruction one.
Also nice to have a big pack of cards for people who already own them and the digital download for the others
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like Ephilim's Pandaemonium is the only warband to NOT get its own standalone release. I really want that warband for my Tzeentch collection, but I already have Khagra's Ravagers and have no desire to collect the Slaanesh or Khorne warband.
What the hell, GW?!
I don't think any of the six warbands from the last three big boxes (Wyrdhollow, Deathgorge, Wintermaw) got separate releases.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like Ephilim's Pandaemonium is the only warband to NOT get its own standalone release. I really want that warband for my Tzeentch collection, but I already have Khagra's Ravagers and have no desire to collect the Slaanesh or Khorne warband.
What the hell, GW?!
Same. I bought Khagra's Ravagers and the Dread Pageant back when they were new. I still haven't finished painting either of them and I don't need the duplicates. It makes me worry that the Pandaemonium is going to be insanely priced on the secondary market...
They've also removed the actual roadmap image (that implied just three new warbands and decks in 2025) and the text may have changed a bit on the previous article:
"That’s two new warbands and two new Rivals decks to join the contents of Embergard just weeks after launch, and then additional warbands and decks released at regular junctures throughout 2025. "
"This prevents players from being locked out of a powerful warband or deck which they can’t buy, and helps maintain proper competitive balance. "
You know the other solution to this, GW? Make the warbands available for people to buy, even if only as an annual M2O run...
Same person on tga who correctly guessed the contents, release date and price of the kill team starter set. They also correctly predicted several other release dates.
Using Underworlds to redesign/re-release resin characters in plastic seems like a great way to fold the units into AoS without requiring a new unit entry. I much prefer them being treated as alternate models for existing units than trying to shoehorn them in a team.
flaherty wrote: Using Underworlds to redesign/re-release resin characters in plastic seems like a great way to fold the units into AoS without requiring a new unit entry. I much prefer them being treated as alternate models for existing units than trying to shoehorn them in a team.
Except the Sunblood (which was the unit entry the Gor-Rok model was used for in AoS) was already cut in 3rd so would need a new unit entry now. It does however make it likely this warband could get AoS rules in the same way the Plaguepack and Stormcoven got.
Of course you can just use him as an Oldblood if thats what you meant
GaroRobe wrote: I dont think its any different than them making Vilitch a generic character and his updated model mirroring his old one
So that's why he's just called Curseling now? I was trying to find him on the store last night and Vilitch didn't come up. I don't play AOS, but wanted him for my Oldhammer army.
The two saurus warriors are a bit underwhelming, though the dynamic pose of one is decent. The venomites(?) are fun though
I've got mixed feelings on the nurgle warband too. One-eyed, Potbelly, and the guy spreading maggot seeds is fun, and I do like nurgle fly daemons, but the sword bearer on the stump is just so plain
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There’s something not quite right about the Plaguebearers. And I’m not sure if it’s a good “not quite right”.
I think its the way the photo has been taken and processed. The light is very flat and that gives the impression of the model being very flat. They've kind of lost the definition of the shape of the model, esp around the head/neck region.
I like the seraphon warband but I just finished painting the spearhead. They are better sculpts but they are not that different from the 10 warriors I just painted...
Also it seems that the warbands are still sold with decks... so maybe another price increase...?
There is no card art any more? The cards all have photos on them.
I expect they think that the models are the primary part of the company's portfolio, so they can do away with the artists.
There is no card art any more? The cards all have photos on them.
I expect they think that the models are the primary part of the company's portfolio, so they can do away with the artists.
It does help with identifying which card is which warrior. The Witch Elf twins are not the easiest to tell apart just from their card art, for example.
There is no card art any more? The cards all have photos on them.
I expect they think that the models are the primary part of the company's portfolio, so they can do away with the artists.
Yeah they said that all the cards now have AMAZING photography instead of the boring art. Trying to market it as a good thing.
I really hated it in the beginning. But I have to admit, looking at some of the cards... maybe it's not that bad.
I still prefer art but at least it does not look cheap with the photos.
straken619 wrote: I like the seraphon warband but I just finished painting the spearhead. They are better sculpts but they are not that different from the 10 warriors I just painted...
Also it seems that the warbands are still sold with decks... so maybe another price increase...?
No they are sold separately.
"The Jaws of Itzl, Grandfather’s Gardners and both decks will be available to pre-order shortly." Sounds like separate releases to me.
There is no card art any more? The cards all have photos on them.
I expect they think that the models are the primary part of the company's portfolio, so they can do away with the artists.
It does help with identifying which card is which warrior. The Witch Elf twins are not the easiest to tell apart just from their card art, for example.
I was referring more to the gambits and objectives, etc. Photos of the models for the character card makes sense, but the 'action shots' of the abilities and objectives were more thematic.
Adding effects to the photos does partially resolve this, but card art has been as thing for as long as there have been cards.
GaroRobe wrote: The two saurus warriors are a bit underwhelming, though the dynamic pose of one is decent. The venomites(?) are fun though
I've got mixed feelings on the nurgle warband too. One-eyed, Potbelly, and the guy spreading maggot seeds is fun, and I do like nurgle fly daemons, but the sword bearer on the stump is just so plain
I like the guy on a stump, but as a unit champion or a Mordheim encounter. He's lacking as a standout Underworld hero.
straken619 wrote: I like the seraphon warband but I just finished painting the spearhead. They are better sculpts but they are not that different from the 10 warriors I just painted...
Also it seems that the warbands are still sold with decks... so maybe another price increase...?
No they are sold separately.
"The Jaws of Itzl, Grandfather’s Gardners and both decks will be available to pre-order shortly." Sounds like separate releases to me.
I figured they are sold together because of this:
"These warbands are accompanied by two brand new Rivals decks that match their play styles."
But yeah.. seeing the sentence you refer to, you might be right.
The Lizzies are really, really nicely done and the poses are perfect. I can imagine this warband being popular on a golden deamon. The Nurgle does not look like it's finished, almost like some parts look rushed. Im a Nurgle collector but I would just get the Lizards instead, since they are so superior.
The plague bearers are pretty cool, but not a very cheerfull group. When I thing Nurgle daemons I think of a twisted comic relief, but these guys are just scary.
Fayric wrote: The plague bearers are pretty cool, but not a very cheerfull group. When I thing Nurgle daemons I think of a twisted comic relief, but these guys are just scary.
While Nurglings, Beasts & Great Unclean Ones have a reputation for being cheerful, Plaguebearers are known for their dour nature.
Fayric wrote: The plague bearers are pretty cool, but not a very cheerfull group. When I thing Nurgle daemons I think of a twisted comic relief, but these guys are just scary.
While Nurglings, Beasts & Great Unclean Ones have a reputation for being cheerful, Plaguebearers are known for their dour nature.
And talking like Count Von Count. "One bubonic plague, ah ah ah. Two, smallpox, ah ah ah."
Fayric wrote: The plague bearers are pretty cool, but not a very cheerfull group. When I thing Nurgle daemons I think of a twisted comic relief, but these guys are just scary.
Guess that depends on preference. I started in 5th Edition 40K where everything was grimdark all the time and all daemons were scary, including Nurgle, even Nurglings were sad little deformed terrors. I always preferred that look to the comic appearance that came after (and before), but I'm mixing nevertheless.
Prices for this week:
Was Wintermaw 80€ or 85€? Or maybe 80€ when it released with a price increase afterwards? I'm seeing both prices online from different shops so not sure if Emberguard got a 5€ increase or stayed the same
Matrindur wrote: Prices for this week:
Was Wintermaw 80€ or 85€? Or maybe 80€ when it released with a price increase afterwards? I'm seeing both prices online from different shops so not sure if Emberguard got a 5€ increase or stayed the same
Checked my order and it was €72 (10% discount) so €80 at release.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Am I the only one constantly reading this as Underworlds Ehrmagerd?
Nehr yehr nawht.
I haven't played Undercry before, but I'm considering getting this one just for the Skaven. I would love to make that mini-doomwheel a secret weapon for Blood Bowl.
How long does it take for the teams to come out separately? I've really got no interest in the Stormcast.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Am I the only one constantly reading this as Underworlds Ehrmagerd?
Nehr yehr nawht.
I haven't played Undercry before, but I'm considering getting this one just for the Skaven. I would love to make that mini-doomwheel a secret weapon for Blood Bowl.
How long does it take for the teams to come out separately? I've really got no interest in the Stormcast.
This is the starter set. It's not going to get split down until a new one comes out. And they've stated this is the only starter that's coming for this edition.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Am I the only one constantly reading this as Underworlds Ehrmagerd?
Nehr yehr nawht.
I haven't played Undercry before, but I'm considering getting this one just for the Skaven. I would love to make that mini-doomwheel a secret weapon for Blood Bowl.
How long does it take for the teams to come out separately? I've really got no interest in the Stormcast.
This is the starter set. It's not going to get split down until a new one comes out. And they've stated this is the only starter that's coming for this edition.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: This is the starter set. It's not going to get split down until a new one comes out. And they've stated this is the only starter that's coming for this edition.
That takes away any thought of which board to use, as there is now only 1 board for both sides to use (and on the back too?).
Also, this being only starter set for this edition, that means the rules should not change as much as they did before. New trap tiles and whatnot appearing every set, etc.
Are the dice the same? I know the crits work differently but is it all the same probability and symbols on the dice? I know premium dice were a big thing the last edition (first few seasons had specific dice for each warband, latterly it was one set for each grand alliance).
deano2099 wrote: Are the dice the same? I know the crits work differently but is it all the same probability and symbols on the dice? I know premium dice were a big thing the last edition (first few seasons had specific dice for each warband, latterly it was one set for each grand alliance).
Other warbands will get digital rules and "many" of them will be rereleased with physical cards "in due course"
There will also likely be some that won't be rereleased for Underworlds but get their models released as a new AoS unit as we already saw for two with the Skaven/Stormcast Battletomes
Other warbands will get digital rules and "many" of them will be rereleased with physical cards "in due course"
There will also likely be some that won't be rereleased for Underworlds but get their models released as a new AoS unit as we already saw for two with the Skaven/Stormcast Battletomes
Also of note: "Many of these warbands will return later in the edition in a similar manner to the four Grand Alliance boxes, granting them their own warscroll and updated fighter cards. At this point, you can expect some other warbands to rotate out of the Organised Play formats as these new ones replace them – we’ll have more on that in future!"
Wow, I really wasn't paying enough attention to this. $100 for the starter set??? Weren't they half that previously? That's a ridiculous price for what they're selling.
Scottywan82 wrote: Wow, I really wasn't paying enough attention to this. $100 for the starter set??? Weren't they half that previously? That's a ridiculous price for what they're selling.
I think three things happened
1) Pandemic and global price rises on everything
2) GW normal price rises over time
3) GW shifted the market focus from an outreach to a core market product
The last one I think is a big reason the prices shifted. This went from a product that was originally made to draw new people in; to one that is now designed to serve GW's core established market. You don't need to deep discount a core market product because people are already into the game.
straken619 wrote: For the old warbands we don't even get bespoke abilities? Just 2 per Alliance?
As far as I can see there are three different categories for the old warbands: There are those that get physical rereleases from this article that should get their rules through the cardpack in the same article (not sure if those rules will also be available online) There are those that don't get physical rereleases yet but should get them in the future and have full rules in the download section right now. And then there are those that only get the generic Grand Alliance rules from this document. And since the Plaguepack and Stormcoven are part of this category these might be prime candidates for getting AoS units. Not everybody since the other Stormcast warbands didn't get a unit entry but any future ones are more likely to come from this list than the other categories with full rules
Scottywan82 wrote: Wow, I really wasn't paying enough attention to this. $100 for the starter set??? Weren't they half that previously? That's a ridiculous price for what they're selling.
I think three things happened
1) Pandemic and global price rises on everything
2) GW normal price rises over time
3) GW shifted the market focus from an outreach to a core market product
The last one I think is a big reason the prices shifted. This went from a product that was originally made to draw new people in; to one that is now designed to serve GW's core established market. You don't need to deep discount a core market product because people are already into the game.
Then I think they have seriously misjudged the space this occupied for customers. I obviously can't speak for all players, but I know my local group diminished significantly as the prices per warband crept up.
$100 for a starter is a hefty barrier to entry, even for existing players since they would need the new box to actually play this version of the game. Add that to the two warbands that people may not even want, and it feels less like moving to a core product and more like price gouging. Either way, I don't think this will have the successful launch they are hoping for.
Personally I agree, esp when Kickstarters regularly push out VERY chunky box content for the same price mark which then go on to be affordable new games in the market.
Underworlds big charm at launch was being quick to get into with pushfit coloured plastic models and being very cheap. It competed well with boxed games to sell to new people and as a nice light game for regular fans.
The steady rise in price to a very expensive boxed set I feel has shifted its value to where its no longer keeping up with the boxed-game market in value.
I think it will still work; but perhaps not as market reaching as it could have been.
Of course with GW production constantly under pressure to keep stocks up who knows - perhaps GW is prepared to gouge prices for now because they can't keep up with demand on any front. So they don't want a massive seller and are happy for slower sales at higher prices until such time as production capacity can catch up
Eh so these 4-packs are gonna be about $200-220AUD. Not bad, but not likely to be a great saving unless you want all 4 or split them with other people.
I haven't really followed the release of the new edition, but I thought all old warbands will get free rules but that's not the case, right?
If I want to play with Gorechosen of Dromm or Grymwatch for example I have to either buy the miniatures again (with 3 extra warbands that I don't want) or buy the cards for all 16 warbands (that is out of stock)?
Also I need to buy the embergard box or at least one of the extra boxes to get a deck so I can play.
Did I miss something or do I really need to spent at least 70 euros (and I probably missed my chance to do that) to play with the miniatures I already own?
deano2099 wrote: Yes, you have to buy the new edition of the game to play the new edition of the game. If nothing else you need the core box for the new board.
Yeah I get that but that's not my problem. Even if I buy the new edition box, I cannot play with the warbands I already have from the previous edition unless I buy them again. Since the cards are out of stock.
For the second edition of warcry for example you still had to buy the new edition but you could get all the cards needed for old warbands for free. No need to buy them again.
Yep. I have none of the warbands with freely downloadble cards. All 6 of mine are in the OOS 16-pack pack. With re-stock at around 2-3 months (maybe more), we should be seeing them soon though.
'Luckily', no-one I know plays it.
Go to GW store and mash the 'Tell me when you've got some' button of everything you're waiting for.
How else will they know you are begging to get your hands on it?
Yeah, the card pack is being reprinted. Underworlds is very much a board game and the new edition is taking it even further in that direction (the previous edition had certain LCG elements). It's not a wargame, and it's leaning into that board game model. Which includes having to buy a new edition of the game (and maybe an upgrade pack) when the new edition comes out.
Sounds like they'll reveal the Warband tomorrow and not during the LVO, based off the Warcom article:
And on Warhammer Community, we’ve got a new Warhammer Underworlds warband and Rivals deck, an Apocrypha Necromunda and the small matter of the first major Warhammer preview of the year… Yep, we’re going to be live from the Las Vegas Open, broadcasting a huge reveal show, alongside coverage from the top tables at the main tournament.
I like the new team, it’s a bit weaker than the previous 2 night goblin ones. But it will serve me well as unit filler/variety in my NG old world army.
Gotta say though - GW using photos of minis rather than art on new cards looks very fething cheap, uninspiring and simply ugly.
Even though I have quite fond memories of playing underworlds a few times in distant past, I’ll just keep using the minis for conversion fodder.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Like the pantomime squig, the Troggoth isn’t a real troggoth, it seems.
Seen a few people say this but I’m not sure why? Nothing seems to imply he’s not actually a Troggoth in either the lore or the model.
None of them cut an imposing figure, but luckily they’re joined by Uglug, a smaller Troggoth who dreams of bigger things, as well as Rigg and Shamm, who lead Uglug around by pretending to be his pet squig.
Overread wrote: Can no one else see the eyes under the nose - in the mouth?
The eyes are roughly where they are on the other Dankhold Troggoths, just compressed onto a smaller face, and the painting underneath the eyes really dark doesn’t help. But yes, lots of people have seen it.
But that's Morathi's thing - also GW are rotating warbands more and more so even if we have past warbands it seems they might slip out of production. Underworlds is slowly doing what GW wanted AoS to be at the start - lots of rotation.
It does highlight though how utterly tiny the actual army range is for Daughters of Khaine in that you've basically got witch aelf; witch aelf with whip and then maybe male elf with a bow.
Would be great to see their army gain a bunch of new options like mounted witch aelves; spear aelves; cheap disposable chaff unit of crossbow male aelves (with snake archers being the elite good ones).
Perhaps some heavily armoured elites; some shadow beasts
NH Gunsmith wrote: Hard to be excited about these when Underworlds already has:
***
The partially naked "evil but not evil" murder Elf warband thing just feels a bit overdone at this point.
Honestly, I'm ready for them to change alliances or may a new one. Call it Vainglory or something.
nope just not very good which is a shame. Wonder if this is a new sculptor being used without a lot of supervision as all the more experienced ones are busy
Ew!
Not a good look. Not good execution of the idea, and a bad paint scheme direction. On top of that, the details look shallow. They're a take on Marauders that doesn't bring anything interesting.
What is actually happening to the one warrior's mouth? Is he growing lictor mandibles? It's not great.
I get the idea they were going for, but the execution is lacking. The paintjob is far too bright and there needs to be a lot of attention giving to the mouths. They need to be bloodied up and gory, like they've hacked it open and sharpened their teeth.
My word. I'm a mostly positive guy but these look pretty poor. It's like they're missing details. Except the literal bulldog, he looks alright, must of been done separately. It's almost like they got melted in the mould a bit (or slag heap) and GW said 'Cor blimey that's a cool effect' and ran with them anyway. I read they're supposed to be mutated but still. Should I say that not since having seen the Turd of Nineties Nagash in metal have my eyes been this hurt?!
'Kamandora’s Blades have come to scavenge skulls from the depths of Embergard.' They should warn people they poke out your eyes first before they take your skulls.
Oof. In addition to being part of a completely one-note faction, those are faces even a mother can't love. This is a rare - but HUGE - miss from Underworlds.
BorderCountess wrote: Oof. In addition to being part of a completely one-note faction, those are faces even a mother can't love. This is a rare - but HUGE - miss from Underworlds.
One genuinely bad group out of like, 40 odd isn't a bad ratio.
BorderCountess wrote: Oof. In addition to being part of a completely one-note faction, those are faces even a mother can't love. This is a rare - but HUGE - miss from Underworlds.
The models are kind of dire, but I wouldn't really blame the faces for it. They're supposed to be mutations. It stands to reason that they'd look off.
In my opinion the poses do nothing to help the models. The mishmash of gear doesn't work for me at all. The leader's pantsuit is ridiculous and lacks definition. The rest of her gear is thrown on without much of a theme to it. Most things are large and exist in isolation from the other elements on the model. There is little in the way of visual interplay. The heavy is better in that regard, but the pose doesn't really suggest what he's supposed to be doing. Not with the way the head looks straight ahead. The ganger that's reaching for the skull has a similar problem.
All of that is only made worse by GW's painting style that draws attention to all the wrong things because it exists to delineate so people can see what they're buying.
Looks like they cut their lips off - honestly I'm willing to bet this is one set where the official paint scheme just failed - rare but happens from time to time. I'd wager they'll look better with different schemes or takes. Or it might be one of those "cool idea in lore/art but translated poorly to a model, esp as we had to oversize the teeth to make them appear at 28-32mm scale."
I actually thing the dog is the worst part. It's another one of those "I never took anatomy, or art" pixel pusher sculpts that's frozen in mid air in one frame of some nonexisting movement, no sense of where the weight is nor any tension in the muscles that should be working for that move. I've seen better balloon dogs.
The guys would be okay as part of 10 sculpts on a sprue of mooks ala Hobgrots. Shame they went to photography with an unfinished paintjob, before someone inked the mouths so it's not white teeth on pastel pink gums with no edge in between.
Dog does look a bit like "this was modelled after a dog sleeping on the floor and then propped upright".
Cause yeah I've taken enough photos to know that there are a LOT of very ungainly ugly/bad looking positions that animal legs can be in during motion. Nailing those split second moments when they actually look good is darn difficult.
Overread wrote: Looks like they cut their lips off - honestly I'm willing to bet this is one set where the official paint scheme just failed - rare but happens from time to time. I'd wager they'll look better with different schemes or takes. Or it might be one of those "cool idea in lore/art but translated poorly to a model, esp as we had to oversize the teeth to make them appear at 28-32mm scale."
I went back and took another look. The sculpting isn't amazing but it looks partially the angle of the poses. The bigger issue is the paint job. For what the models are trying to convey they are WAY too clean. They need to be filty.
Yeah, they are just not inspired in any way. And the headdresses look ridiculous. Everything just feels clumsy. Like if you saw them coming toward you, you'd expect them to fall on their faces before they made it three steps.
Models are a bit boring, but not THAT bad. The paintjob is awful though - they could look like pale menacing ghoulish scavengers or dark Voodoo cultists. I mean, do they even want to sell the models?
The dog on the other hand is a really bad sculpt. And I don't know why it is even part of that band.
Dryaktylus wrote: Models are a bit boring, but not THAT bad. The paintjob is awful though - they could look like pale menacing ghoulish scavengers or dark Voodoo cultists. I mean, do they even want to sell the models?
The dog on the other hand is a really bad sculpt. And I don't know why it is even part of that band.
That's not a Dog...it's a Dogh, completely different beasts and the sculptor did a fantastic job of actualizing its........nope, can't do it......it is just bad.
Overread wrote: I wonder if it began life as some kind of living mechanical mini brass bull and then got changed to living part way and then twisted around
It originally was a Greater Daemon of Hashut. It's not that large, because it's worshipped by dwarfs and skinny yellow grots.
Dryaktylus wrote: Models are a bit boring, but not THAT bad. The paintjob is awful though - they could look like pale menacing ghoulish scavengers or dark Voodoo cultists. I mean, do they even want to sell the models?
The dog on the other hand is a really bad sculpt. And I don't know why it is even part of that band.
That's not a Dog...it's a Dogh, completely different beasts and the sculptor did a fantastic job of actualizing its........nope, can't do it......it is just bad.
They look like cheap prosthetics, rather than mutations.
That’s what’s been annoying me.
Whether that’s the paintjob or sculpt remains to be seen.
I'm leaning in the direction of the paintjob, mostly. They look like they have wide, lipless mouth props that kind of look stuck onto their actual faces. That's the mutation. It's not a normal jaw with just the flesh removed. It's wide and distended and just slots into an otherwise normal head. I wouldn't call it bad as such, but the sculpt itself doesn't seem to have any visual cues that identify the mouth as a mutated part.
If the sculpt doesn't make it clear, it's the paintjob that has to do the heavy lifting. Which it doesn't because 'Eavy Metal style really isn't fit for the job.
I don't think the sculpts are truly horrendous but the paint job makes them much worse. I mean they are slightly better than that awful Corteaz sculpt.
My first thought seeing them is that they took the idea from Hindu Aghori. I've seen some Aghori who wear the ash paint in a similar way as the weird mouths on the minis to create the illusion of skull like teeth over their mouths.
Obviously in this case they've cut their mouths instead of using cremation ashes because Chaos or whatever.
I think painting them like that would make those minis suddenly much better.
I like the idea of scavengers focusing on the blood letting aspect. I always appreciate GW attempting to show a different facet to one of their factions.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Should I say that not since having seen the Turd of Nineties Nagash in metal have my eyes been this hurt?!
You take that slander of metal Nagash back! He remains a far easier to transport model, and a more-usable-on-the-table model that the silly plastic version.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Should I say that not since having seen the Turd of Nineties Nagash in metal have my eyes been this hurt?!
You take that slander of metal Nagash back! He remains a far easier to transport model, and a more-usable-on-the-table model that the silly plastic version.
Hehe you're right of course metal Nagash would be easier to transport than the plastic one. More solid too for carrying in a sock to swing at any would be mugger. Just with his oversized deformed skull I always thought they could fit another skull inside his, inside another skull. Triple skulls?!
While I think the paintjob and "Not up to their usual standards" sculpting isn't helping, for me the main problem is their mouths.
Even with the enbiggening minis have been having over the years, they're still not at a scale where you can do individual teeth without it looking really weird.
The paintjob is part of the issue, but I'm not sure a paintjob exists that can save those mouths. They don't like they're deformed or mutated, they just look like they cut their lips off and called it a day.
Like i thought, grittier overall look and heavy gore around the mouth helps them incredibly. Still a weak look warband all round, but they are servicable.
That's not a Dog...it's a Dogh, completely different beasts and the sculptor did a fantastic job of actualizing its........nope, can't do it......it is just bad.
