Synapse is now 12" base, 18" for HTs IB indeed has a -1 to hit Malus for shooting. BUT only if you aim at something that isn't the closest unit
Likewise it's -2 charge distance(I think) if you attempt to charge something that isn't the closest unit
Hive Fleet traits (apply to everything)
* complete*
behemoth: reroll failed charges
Kraken: can charge after falling back
Gorgon: reroll 1s to hit for fight phase
jormungandr: always have cover bonus (i'm not sure if i read this right)
hydra: reroll misses against units with less models during fight phase
kronos: reroll 1s to hit for shooting, IF the unit doesnt move
Leviathan: looks to be the same as salamander tactic but i'm not 100% sure
Psychic Powers
* missing at least 3 powers*
Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random
paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not)
*cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse
warp blast is the same except at a unit of 6 it deals d3+3 instead of d3+d3
Warlord Traits
1) First battle turn, before first turn, you can remove your warlord and set them up again.
2) Never suffer any hit roll penalties. Overwatch still on 6s.
3) Add 6" synapse
4) WL kill a character in fight, friendly hive unit in 3" , get to move as per normal again at end of phase.
5) Before battle start, choose opponent unit. WL reroll all failed hit rolls against that all units with the same dataslate. (etc. All obliterator squads)
6) After end of any phase, wlt take a wound, remaining of battle, all dmg to wl -1
Behemoth: WOund roll of 6 in fight phase. that attack +1 dmg Kraken: 1 friendly kraken unit within 6 of wlt, can fight first in fight phase even without charging
Leviathan : 1 per battle round. you can reroll a single hit/wound/dmg /advance charge or saving throw for the wl.
Gorgon: end of fight phase. roll d6 for every enemy within 1" of warlord. on 4+, that unit suffer a MW.
Jormungandr: Enemy unit dont gain bonus to saving throw for being in cover by attacks from wl, or friendly Jormungandr units within 3 of wl.
Hydra: Beginning of each of your turn, roll a dice for each wound WL suffered, on a 6, heal.
Kronos: Enemy psyker fail a psychic test within 18 of your wl, they suffer D3 MW
Stratagems
1cp the enemy below (jormungandr)
use strat when jor inf set up, put it undergorund. whenever you set up raveners mawloc trygon or trygon prime. any no of its unit can be set up within the tunnels, 3 inch from burrowing unit ,9 inch away enemy.
1cp brute force (behemoth)
use when benemoth unit complete charge . roll d6 for each behemoth charging model within 1inch of enemy. each roll of 6, 1 MW on enemy unit. 2+ for a behemoth monster charging
(30 man gant charge in, roll d6 for all, on a 6 chuck a mw)
1cp war on all fronts (leviathan)
fight phase. select enemy within 1inch of 1 flying and 1 nonflying leviathan unit. can reroll hits & wound rolls of 1 for levi attacks against the enemy unit
1cp Against Shadow (Kronos)
enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell within 24 inch of kronos unit. that psyker can only use 1 dice for his psyk test.
1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)
fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6
2cp Endless Swarm
Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
1cp Opportunistic Advance
Use in move phase for advancing Kraken unit (noFly units), can double number you roll for advance and add to the move characteristic
3cp Call the Brood
end of move. add a new unit of up to 5 genestealers, wholly within 6 of a brood or infestation node but more than 9 from enemy
3Cp adrenaline surge
end of fight phase. select a nid unit from army, can immediately fight again
2cp Digestive Denial
After deployment but before turn start. choose a piece of terrain othre than fortifciation.
Units fullywithin or on this piece of terrain do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.....
lol if anyone piles their whole army onto one big terrain in their deployment.
2cp single minded annihilation
end of shoot phase, choose inf unit, shoot again lol (devil gants/hiveguard lol)
1cp grisly feast
morale phase. select ripper or haru. enenemy within 6 inch must add 1 to morale test
2cp pathogenic slime
shooting phase. select nid mon. increase dmg of its attack by for this phase. lol 2dmg dakka flyrant/exo/tyrannofex
3cp sporefield
after both armies deploy, add up 2 unit of spore mines as reinf, more than 12 inch from enemy
1cp invisible hunter
move phase. lictor within 1 inhc of enemy. that model can fall back shoot and charge.
1cp power of the hive mind
end of psyk phase, choose a nid spyker that casted earlier, can cast 1 additional power
1cp pheromone trail
choose when nid inf set up as reinf/reserve. if got lictor on battlefield, you can set up wholly within 6 inch of lictor and more than 9 from enemy
2cp death frenzy
use when nid char die, it can shoot again as if it were shooting phase, or fight again as if fight phase before its removal
1cp overrun
use when nid unit destroys an unit in fight, and not within 3 inch of enemy. that you unit can forgo consolidation, but move and advance as if movement phase but cannot move within 1inch of enemy model
1cp voracious appetite
fight phase, nid mon or character is chosen to fight.can reroll all failed wounds for that model til end of phase
psk barrage
need 3x3 zoans to shoot a point, all unit within 3 inch of that point rolls. 4+ unit suffer 3d3 mortal
1cp caustic blood
start of fight phase.select nid unit, roll d6 when a model dies, on 6 enemy suffer mw
2cp rapid regen
end of mov, heal d3
1cp scorch bugs
shoot phase
seelect nid, +1 to wound for all feshborer or fleshborer hive attacks
1cp feeder tendrils
when gene lictor toxi venom kills a chara in fight phase, gain d3 cp 1cp implant attack
use aft nid unit fight in fight phase. roll d6 for each wounded enemy model and not slain. 2+ suffer , model suffers a mw
1/3cp bounty of hive fleet
artefact thing
1cp metabolic movement
use in move , after a nid unit as movemed. you can move that unit again includ advance. however roll a d6 for every model, on a 1 , unit gets a MW. cannot shoot or charge that turn.
Relics
*missing most relics*
there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff
its a relic venom cannon. same stats as a venom cannon except d6 shots. but if the target is within 12" it auto hits and always wounds on 2+
most of the artefacts are soso. but there is a 30 inch norm crown that negates the effect of IB, but doesn't give you anything else.
Kraken relic: -1 to hit from enemy shooting
Gorgon relic: after being wounded the first time gain 1T for the rest of the game
Reaper of obliterax(bonesword/whip or monstrous bonesword & whip) on 6 to wound do double damage
Units / Wargear
<General>
A lot of weapons cost are slightly cheaper and inbuilt into the base cost of units that only can have them.
i dont have the numbers but there are many reductions in costs for big bug melee and ranged weapons. eg. massive scything are now 10pts. massive scything talons in a pair are cheaper too (cant remember exact number). monstrous scything talons are much cheaper too. carnifex comes stock with tresher scythe which is now zero points and is the same wording as the hive tyrant. which is, it makes its profile attacks, which in the codex is 4, and then also makes the tail attack, which is now 1d3 attacks.
tyrant guard still suck. scything talons are still 0. rending claws are still 2. boneswords are still 4. crushing claws are 12 (stats unchanged)
<points> warriors are still the same. zoanthropes are the same. haruspex has a big one. biovores are the same. the spore mine rules are the same too. hiveguard are either the same or has an inconsequential decrease in points.
Stinger salvos are now 24 inches
Heavy venom canon are now d3 S9 Ap2 3damage
Stranglethorn is 25pts
1x Devourer with brainleech is 7pts. Assault 6
1x deathspitter with maggot is 7pt. Assault 3
Monstrous boneswords are 20pts
Monstrous boneswords with whip are 15pts
our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack [to 4]. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.
hive tyrants can still take MRC
Swarmlord does still have hive commander. On 6s to wound he does one additional mortal wound
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait
old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait. No degradation
Neurothrope is now HQ, a character and no longer part of a zoanthrope unit. zoanthropes within 6" of a neurothrope reroll 1s for psychic tests. the spirit leech thing now only heals 1 wound for a zoanthrope unit withint 6"
Neurothropes are 70 points all in
maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++
maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W
venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3
venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6".
genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtfGW)
bs4 got flesh hook as option
New ability: infestion can put 4 nodes in ur own deploy area , if enemy near it , it disappears. you can pop up from any of the 4 nodes as per normal ds/reserve.
Gargoyles gain DS no changes to raveners..
Shrikes are gone
Crone lost 1 base attack but tail weapon is free attack. Tentaclids are 4 shots
Red Terror -1 WS/A
Toxicrene - toxic lash are AP-2
tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter. Transport rules unchanged
exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease
tyranofex is 185 pts.
rupture cannon is 47 or 49. rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"
Acid spray 18" 2D6 hits
there are now 3 seperate carnifex entries. 1.) Carnifex 2.) Screamer killer 3.) Thornback
carnifex including 2x monstrous scything talons clock in total at 83 pts.. the 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons for carnifexes are 15 pts, 1 pair is 14 pts. yes.. i know. dont ask me why.
there are individual upgrades for basic carnifexes. +1BS, +1 attack on the charge, -1 to hit from enemy shooting. on the charge carnifexes and screamer killers now get +1 WS on top of the current battering ram rule
screamer killers come stock with "bio plasmic scream" which is 0 points, 12" assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. 90 pts in total
Thornbacks are base 70.
at the end of combat roll d6 for each enemy unit in combat with it. on 6 deal 1 mortal wound
Starts with 2 devourers with brainleech worm
It can swap the devourers with deathspitters with maggots
And a pair of monstrous scything talons
It can swap the claws with a stranglethorn only.
And a chitin biomorph
for the carnifex biomorphs:
-1 to hit from enemy shooting biomorph is 10 pts - does not stack with shrouding spores
+1 attack on the charge is 8 pts
+1 BS is 10 points
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
This isn't to put him down, but the better the rumor record, the more excited we can get and , on the other hand if he had a rumor record of gak, we could pretty much ignore this, so we ask. As it is, I'll take this as "possible" and with a grain of salt. If correct, this is looking pretty good.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
This isn't to put him down, but the better the rumor record, the more excited we can get and , on the other hand if he had a rumor record of gak, we could pretty much ignore this, so we ask. As it is, I'll take this as "possible" and with a grain of salt. If correct, this is looking pretty good.
The guy promised not to post photos online as part of seeing it early, but did PM a photo of the Hive Tyrant datasheet to a couple of long-time members of the forum who vouched him.
The GW community article yesterday matched the Hive Fleet traits list he posted perfectly, and since then someone else has come forward posting details from the codex which also lines up.
We're just waiting on the first full rules article (any minute now!) and we'll know it's 100% legit.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: What's the rumor record on this guy so we know whether or not to take it seriously?
Believe or don't believe. If it was true, it wouldn't be a rumour but fact. Why do people keep having to put people down for saying a rumour? Sheesh. All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
This isn't to put him down, but the better the rumor record, the more excited we can get and , on the other hand if he had a rumor record of gak, we could pretty much ignore this, so we ask. As it is, I'll take this as "possible" and with a grain of salt. If correct, this is looking pretty good.
Yesterday and today's previews have been confirming the leaks, so unless otherwise shown I will asume they are legit, as we already have prove of their legitimacy.
Seag and LordHikarru (Sp?) were the 2 big ones I saw with Seag going from memory and LH apparently reading out of the book at times.
We have confirmation of some of their stuff.
Synapse is 12" (confirmed) 18 on tyrants (still rumor but would match their current datasheet)
All the info on the Screamer Killer is confirmed but the point costs.
IB is confirmed to work as they reported (Seag the -1 to hit part and LH the when targetting) Niether one of them told us about the range.
Kronus was confirmed
So far it's a pretty decent track record. I would expect that not everything we have been told is true because we are either missing components of the rules that may change how they function or details about them are slightly off from memory. But these rumors are for sure heading in the right direction.
Lance845 wrote: Seag and LordHikarru (Sp?) were the 2 big ones I saw with Seag going from memory and LH apparently reading out of the book at times.
We have confirmation of some of their stuff.
Synapse is 12" (confirmed) 18 on tyrants (still rumor but would match their current datasheet)
All the info on the Screamer Killer is confirmed but the point costs.
IB is confirmed to work as they reported (Seag the -1 to hit part and LH the when targetting) Niether one of them told us about the range.
Kronus was confirmed
So far it's a pretty decent track record. I would expect that not everything we have been told is true because we are either missing components of the rules that may change how they function or details about them are slightly off from memory. But these rumors are for sure heading in the right direction.
For Screamer killer, Seeg originally posted: screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream” TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
For Screamer killer, Seeg originally posted: screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream” TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
So, still decent, but some missed items.
Yes but LH said it was d6 and I think he said the higher AP. Again, Seagg was from memory, LH seemed to be reading the book to us.
Lance845 wrote: Seag and LordHikarru (Sp?) were the 2 big ones I saw with Seag going from memory and LH apparently reading out of the book at times.
We have confirmation of some of their stuff.
Synapse is 12" (confirmed) 18 on tyrants (still rumor but would match their current datasheet)
All the info on the Screamer Killer is confirmed but the point costs.
IB is confirmed to work as they reported (Seag the -1 to hit part and LH the when targetting) Niether one of them told us about the range.
Kronus was confirmed
So far it's a pretty decent track record. I would expect that not everything we have been told is true because we are either missing components of the rules that may change how they function or details about them are slightly off from memory. But these rumors are for sure heading in the right direction.
The consistency or the rules and the fast pace it came I doubt it was one person sitting there and making it up. Unless he had prepeared the 'fake rules' before hand. It sounds very wrong.
Some numbers might be off, but I think this is rock solid.
which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE
That's kinda misleading.
Sure he had some errors on the bio plasmic scream, but he successfully "predicted" the name of the weapon, the existence of the weapon (I'm honestly still kinda surprised that it doesn't have standard bio-plasma) and that it would have more attacks that normal bio-plasma.
His errors seem more a product of misremembering (he made it clear he didn't have the codex, but had access to it) than lying.
For Screamer killer, Seeg originally posted: screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream” TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE
That's kinda misleading.
Sure he had some errors on the bio plasmic scream, but he successfully "predicted" the name of the weapon, the existence of the weapon (I'm honestly still kinda surprised that it doesn't have standard bio-plasma) and that it would have more attacks that normal bio-plasma.
His errors seem more a product of misremembering (he made it clear he didn't have the codex, but had access to it) than lying.
I didn't say he was lying. I did say that he got some information incorrect. I don't ascertain motives, for the most part, when updating the tracker. I did give him credit for the name/existence.
Lance845 wrote: Seag and LordHikarru (Sp?) were the 2 big ones I saw with Seag going from memory and LH apparently reading out of the book at times.
We have confirmation of some of their stuff.
Synapse is 12" (confirmed) 18 on tyrants (still rumor but would match their current datasheet)
All the info on the Screamer Killer is confirmed but the point costs.
IB is confirmed to work as they reported (Seag the -1 to hit part and LH the when targetting) Niether one of them told us about the range.
Kronus was confirmed
So far it's a pretty decent track record. I would expect that not everything we have been told is true because we are either missing components of the rules that may change how they function or details about them are slightly off from memory. But these rumors are for sure heading in the right direction.
For Screamer killer, Seeg originally posted:
screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream”
TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
So, still decent, but some missed items.
Well he wasn't fasle with Bio-Scream. It is 6 shots, S7 AP -4. 0 points, probably not. But he was 70% correct here.
screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream”TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
The actual weapon is D6 shots, S7 AP-4, 18". LINK TO REAL PROFILE So he got the strength and damage correct. I generally don't mark individual parts of a weapon unless it's a big deal, so overall it was false.
screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream”TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
The actual weapon is D6 shots, S7 AP-4, 18". LINK TO REAL PROFILE So he got the strength and damage correct. I generally don't mark individual parts of a weapon unless it's a big deal, so overall it was false.
That's absurd, he even said he wasn't sure about it.
It's pretty much a binary: Has this guy seen the book to report back about it? Obviously yes.
screamer killers come stock with “bio plasmic scream”TRUE which is 0 points, 12″ assault 6(not sure on the number), S7 ap-1, 1damage. FALSE screamer killers come stock with 2 monstrous scything talons as well. TRUE 90 pts in total
The actual weapon is D6 shots, S7 AP-4, 18". LINK TO REAL PROFILE So he got the strength and damage correct. I generally don't mark individual parts of a weapon unless it's a big deal, so overall it was false.
That's absurd, he even said he wasn't sure about it.
It's pretty much a binary: Has this guy seen the book to report back about it? Obviously yes.
Feel free to take it over to the rumor tracker thread.
Does it actually matter? Who cares what rating for rumor tracking he has on a forum he didn't post to? I would be really surprised to find out he gives a gak that someone decided to call one of his rumors false for being only partially true.
I would put it as partly true myself; putting it as true is out of the question since it wasn't but saying it was false is a bit misleading. It was accurate enough that he was obviously drawing from the source material (rather than fabricating the rumor off circumstantial evidence).
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would put it as partly true myself; putting it as true is out of the question since it wasn't but saying it was false is a bit misleading. It was accurate enough that he was obviously drawing from the source material (rather than fabricating the rumor off circumstantial evidence).
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Is the Leviathan 6+++ really fantastic? Ulthwée and Iron Hands get this without range distriction.
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Is the Leviathan 6+++ really fantastic? Ulthwée and Iron Hands get this without range distriction.
Ulthwe and Iron Hands aren't horde armies, being able to flood the board with 6+++ models would be pretty filthy. I dont think the short range will too limiting in most Nid armies except Nidzillas. Big blobs take up a lot of board space.
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Is the Leviathan 6+++ really fantastic? Ulthwée and Iron Hands get this without range distriction.
Ulthwe and Iron Hands aren't horde armies, being able to flood the board with 6+++ models would be pretty filthy. I dont think the short range will too limiting in most Nid armies except Nidzillas. Big blobs take up a lot of board space.
Its pretty terrible. If it was 12 inches per your synapse then maybe worth trying out. 6 inches is limiting. The whole article yesterday was on not having to worry about being so close to the synapse units, and they increased it from 8 to 12. now having to squish everything back to 6 inches? and you cant stack Catalyst with it cause it would be somehow "way to OP" is ridiculous.
I agree with Str00dles1. Imho it is just too punishing to put everything really close. Also since when is anyone playing swarms of Gants to fill the whole board?
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Is the Leviathan 6+++ really fantastic? Ulthwée and Iron Hands get this without range distriction.
Ulthwe and Iron Hands aren't horde armies, being able to flood the board with 6+++ models would be pretty filthy. I dont think the short range will too limiting in most Nid armies except Nidzillas. Big blobs take up a lot of board space.
Its pretty terrible. If it was 12 inches per your synapse then maybe worth trying out. 6 inches is limiting. The whole article yesterday was on not having to worry about being so close to the synapse units, and they increased it from 8 to 12. now having to squish everything back to 6 inches? and you cant stack Catalyst with it cause it would be somehow "way to OP" is ridiculous.
It's not that you're having to "squish everything back to 6 inches" but rather you get additional benefits for being within 6".
Also worth noting that Sporocysts, a Tyranid Fortification, has the "Psychic Resonator" trait allowing it to become a Synapse Creature when it is within Synapse range(which is 18" for Hive Tyrants according to some of the posts here).
And people thought daisy-chaining Commissars were bad. At least there things wouldn't get a bonus round of saves.
Astmeister wrote: I agree with Str00dles1. Imho it is just too punishing to put everything really close. Also since when is anyone playing swarms of Gants to fill the whole board?
Well, it happened in 3rd edition.
This is why I have zero interest in my Tyranids these days. Spent far too many editions overhauling my army to fit whatever the new paradigm was for that edition. And too many of them didn't look especially Tyranid-y to me.
Astmeister wrote: I agree with Str00dles1. Imho it is just too punishing to put everything really close. Also since when is anyone playing swarms of Gants to fill the whole board?
Well, it happened in 3rd edition.
This is why I have zero interest in my Tyranids these days. Spent far too many editions overhauling my army to fit whatever the new paradigm was for that edition. And too many of them didn't look especially Tyranid-y to me.
Hope you folks have fun with them, though.
I am usually playing Tyranids with a lot of different units, which also includes 60 or so Gants. But this does not mean that I would like to play an army that floods the board with 200+ bodies. That is just too cumbersome for me and also very one dimensional.
What's always put me off the Gribbly Ones is not being able to make a 'background accurate' army for the common points limits.
Ideally, I want to be able to stand a reasonable chance fielding a couple of big guys, good amount of middle sized, and lots of ickle bugs. That to me is how the background shows Nids.
But for yonks now, the Codecies just haven't really encouraged that.
Perhaps this one will strike the right balance for me? Who knows.
I don't think it's too outlandish for a hive mind to deploy more large monsters than medium ones to an area: The mediums tend to mostly be support units plugging very specific tactical gaps, with the exception of Raveners.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What's always put me off the Gribbly Ones is not being able to make a 'background accurate' army for the common points limits.
Ideally, I want to be able to stand a reasonable chance fielding a couple of big guys, good amount of middle sized, and lots of ickle bugs. That to me is how the background shows Nids.
But for yonks now, the Codecies just haven't really encouraged that.
Perhaps this one will strike the right balance for me? Who knows.
I assume that the stories are more or less talking about whole planetary invasions. This is far beyond normal 40k games and would be considered "apocalypse battles". You would have to play several thousand points to do this.
Seeg got the Leviathan Attribute wrong when trying to remember (in his defense he looks at it at the store and then comes home and posts to us what he can remember). LordHikaru corrected it:
"If a unit with this attribute is within 6" of a Synapse unit when it suffers a Wound roll a dice. On a roll of 6+ ignore that wound. This ability is not cumulative with Catalyst."
So Leviathan Synapse give out a 6" half-Catalyst bubble at all times, which is pretty fantastic.
In addition, not that any of you have any reason to believe me, but Seeg PM'd me pictures of the Hive Tyrant and Maleceptor datasheets, and LordHikaru PM'd a cropped down pic of one of the stratagem pages. I, personally, take that as solid proof.
Is the Leviathan 6+++ really fantastic? Ulthwée and Iron Hands get this without range distriction.
Ulthwe and Iron Hands aren't horde armies, being able to flood the board with 6+++ models would be pretty filthy. I dont think the short range will too limiting in most Nid armies except Nidzillas. Big blobs take up a lot of board space.
Its pretty terrible. If it was 12 inches per your synapse then maybe worth trying out. 6 inches is limiting. The whole article yesterday was on not having to worry about being so close to the synapse units, and they increased it from 8 to 12. now having to squish everything back to 6 inches? and you cant stack Catalyst with it cause it would be somehow "way to OP" is ridiculous.
It's not that you're having to "squish everything back to 6 inches" but rather you get additional benefits for being within 6".
Also worth noting that Sporocysts, a Tyranid Fortification, has the "Psychic Resonator" trait allowing it to become a Synapse Creature when it is within Synapse range(which is 18" for Hive Tyrants according to some of the posts here).
And people thought daisy-chaining Commissars were bad. At least there things wouldn't get a bonus round of saves.
Unless the Sporocysts has gotten better at shooting or is vastly cheaper, this doesent help at all, as its a terrible unit as well.
If you play a sporocyst with Kronos, you will always get the reroll 1 to hit and the Venom Cannon got a big boost. So I think it got slightly better. But it is probably not worth it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What's always put me off the Gribbly Ones is not being able to make a 'background accurate' army for the common points limits.
Ideally, I want to be able to stand a reasonable chance fielding a couple of big guys, good amount of middle sized, and lots of ickle bugs. That to me is how the background shows Nids.
But for yonks now, the Codecies just haven't really encouraged that.
Perhaps this one will strike the right balance for me? Who knows.
I assume that the stories are more or less talking about whole planetary invasions. This is far beyond normal 40k games and would be considered "apocalypse battles". You would have to play several thousand points to do this.
Well bigger battles ratios would still be about same. Biggest difference would be on biggest ones. In smaller battles bigger ones are if anything rarer and smaller than biggest ones in big battles
So, I think I may have broken the dex already... It relates to the sporefield strategem, which is basically "spend 3cp before the game to drop 2 spore mine units 12" from enemies". A neat way to give us DS buffers when needed, or a way to wall off a fast opponent's movement.
However, spore mines explicitly do not cost reinforcement points. And because this strat is a before the game one, you can use it as many times as you like, each time plopping down 2x6 spore mines.
With pure nids you can fit 2 brigades and a battalion into 2k. If you go for a Nid, a gsc and an AM detachment I'm pretty sure you can fit 3 brigades due to AM's cheapness. That means, if you splurge cp on sporefield, you're getting 96/120 free spore mines at the start of the game. That's (apparently, I think they're overcosted) 960/1200 free points, in essence. Sure you have a crappy list otherwise, but having carpeted the field in spores that threaten to dish out a huge amount of mortal wounds, do you really care?
Def unintended, and I wouldn't want to lose free spore mines because of this - so if anything, a sporefield limit to once per game might be the best fix.
Lance845 wrote: Does anyone remember this rumor from about a year ago?
Interesting how it manifested as Leviathans adaptation.
Throw enough darts blindfolded and you'll hit something.
It was rumored to be a snippet from a play test document for the new nid dex.
Bunch of people said the document image looked fake. I don't think so anymore. I think it's pretty likely they were testing that before they got direction to start work on 8th.
I love the Adaptions.. Far far more then either other codex I have for my armies.
They are all good, but there doesnt seem to be obviously better ones, like Alpha Legion/RavenGuard/Alitoic and Ultramarines.
I Also love how Warriors are now amazing. If strats are to be trusted,
10 warriors with Deathspitters can, shoot 30 s5 -1 d2 shots, rerolling 1s to hit, and hit on a 2+. On math thats 6.5 damage to Mortarian or 8 to a leman russ. As well as 6 dead Hellblasters.
In addition, for a CP they can spread some anti-smite hate around for a good 25% of a 6*4 board
I know having the whole codex spoiled baaically killed any rumor hype but c'mon lads. Also Kraken isn't as bad as we first though. Looks like a pretty decent for a melee heavy army.
Seems like Jormungandr will be the strongest out of the gates. Much like Alpha Legion/Raven Guard/Alaitoc trait, any passive defensive trait that you don't need to meet a requirement to get is going to be good. The only requirement is "don't run", and honestly there's enough speed and movement tricks in Tyranids do not really care about it that much.
Though Behemoth reroll charges will probably be next best, since you can make those 9" SUA charges a bit more reliable.
Astmeister wrote: I agree with Str00dles1. Imho it is just too punishing to put everything really close. Also since when is anyone playing swarms of Gants to fill the whole board?
Well, it happened in 3rd edition.
This is why I have zero interest in my Tyranids these days. Spent far too many editions overhauling my army to fit whatever the new paradigm was for that edition. And too many of them didn't look especially Tyranid-y to me.
Hope you folks have fun with them, though.
I am usually playing Tyranids with a lot of different units, which also includes 60 or so Gants. But this does not mean that I would like to play an army that floods the board with 200+ bodies. That is just too cumbersome for me and also very one dimensional.
It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.
I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.
It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.
I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.
Honestly, Tyranids are like Guard.
They don't have a single "set" method of warfare. We had the Skyswarms that showed up in Leviathan, the Genestealer Infiltration bits, the Trygon and Ravener swarms...
Dynas wrote: I am pretty sure that they will FAQ the Spore mine Rule. But honestly who has 120 spore mines? Lol
Spore Mine Rule isn't going to change. Too many things use them as ammo.
If anything the wording on the Strategem will likely read "at the end of the movement phase" or something like that. And Even then, it might be intended to spend as many CP as you want to throw down a bunch of anti-alpha strike deterants.
Time to trawl ebay for Carnifexes, Spore Mines, and commision some Hive Fleet Tokens.
Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.
The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.
It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.
I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.
Honestly, Tyranids are like Guard.
They don't have a single "set" method of warfare. We had the Skyswarms that showed up in Leviathan, the Genestealer Infiltration bits, the Trygon and Ravener swarms...
And all of those were fluffy.
The problem is they were all dominant in different editions as the army was overhauled time after time, forcing you to buy different things each edition while the old models got put on the shelf hoping the next edition was kinder to them.
It would be a nice change to have one edition where all of those are viable ways to build the army.
jimmyjames2112 wrote: Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.
The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.
Two units could be 12 spore mines since one unit is up to 6. Until we see the wording in the book, we won't know if it means full units or not.
Spread them out and you've got a decent amount of coverage just from 3 cp.
jimmyjames2112 wrote: Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.
The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.
Two units could be 12 spore mines since one unit is up to 6. Until we see the wording in the book, we won't know if it means full units or not.
Spread them out and you've got a decent amount of coverage just from 3 cp.
Exactly never underestimate the coverage. I made a cultist alpha legion khorne deathstar and man when you can deny reserve units woth the only rule being 9’ or more away it really limits reserve units from dropping in. I have actually dropped 9 CP on a bubble wrap in a casual game and it was pretty entertaining. Tyranids will probably have a similar strategems so just remember outside of synapse they still can drop 2 cp to auto pass morale tests from book.
I'm worried that more Fearless swarms (orks too) are going to strain the meta even more. Guard has already shown us that other armies struggle to field anti horde firepower and anti armor firepower in the same list efficiently. I'm concerned that space marines will have to choose between enough anti horde to fight nids/orks, and enough anti armor to fight guard. Whereas Guard is able to manage both pretty effectively right now.
It seems that a big factor overlooked in 8th is the massive drop in anti horde firepower (especially for space marines.) We used to have flamers and blasts that were very effective and cheap. Now they are neither. And more, we used to be able to count on basic bolter fire to thin down stuff like boyz blobs. But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.
I believe the new Morale system was supposed to compensate for this drop in anti horde firepower, and it would on its own. But with all the major horde armies having easy sources of Fearless, what's going to happen? It hasn't been an issue so far only because those armies don't have their codices yet.
It seems that we're going to need a change to anti horde weapons if Marines are going to be able to compete without major list tailoring. If we still had old style Template and Blast rules this wouldn't be a problem. But 1d6 hits vs a horde is a joke compared to getting 5-9 in the past (and ignoring cover, on a free or 5pt weapon.) If flamers were 1d3+1 hits per 5 models in the target unit, then perhaps things would work.
Anyone else worried about this, or am I missing something?
Yeah, Anti-Horde firepower on 8th is severely lacking. More bonuses per group of models like the Grav Bombard of the leviathan Dread has could help to fix that.
Obviously, the objetive is to make them effective Anti-horde weapons, not to erase Hordes from the game, like before happened. So they should try to reach a middle point.
Flamers being 1d6 hits, +1 hit for every 5/10 models past the first 10 could be something good as you said, etc...
I can say that after Tyranid Synapse is gone (and they're not that inaccesible/defensible) Leadership in our army is pretty garbage. 5 and less I believe on swarm monsters.
Not worried about it, and not because I usually don't have to worry about it. If something's up, I'm optimistic that GW is going to fix it. They've already shown they're willing to change things.
Throw in a universal 1cp stratagem 'Cleaving Blows' that makes one unit's damage carry over from model to model in a single fight phase. So a 3-damage thunder hammer kills 3 guardsman for each successful attack, for example. Adds anti-horde to everyone in a limited capacity and makes melee more useful at the same time.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.
It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.
It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.
I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.
The Assault Cannon Razorback may as well be the new Tac Marine anyway. 12 Str. 6 AP -1 shots on a 10 Wounds, T7 platform for 100 points is hard to beat. Even double-shooting Leman Russes, Fire Prism, etc. in anti-infantry mode. nothing quite matches that raw damage output/per point. Shiny new Primaris Tactials for the same 100 points are just 10 Str. 4 AP -1 shots with 10 Wounds at T, and only if you are in rapid fire range.. Old school Tac Marines barely get 2 extra crappy bolters shots over the Razorback at 100 points. And a H/K Missile is also far cheaper than a heavy weapon in a Tac Squad, doesn't reduce your anti-infantry firepower and is largely sufficient these days, when 40K games are mostly 2 turn affairs.
Bubble wrap a bit against charges/mortal wounds and you're good.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.
It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.
I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.
I played those same editions and bolters were a big reason as to why genestealers weren't fielded after 4th and even then you didn't take them without extended carapace.
I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.
Did you ever wonder why Orks either show in Mega Armor or Green Tides ?
See many Eldar Guardians ?
Imperial Guard in numbers soo large they hope you don't have enough turns to gun them all down ?
This game has spent decades conditioning anyone who fields anything out of power armor in large enough numbers to take casualties and still have models left.
Also, I didn't say "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" either. It's no fun dying without an armor save. Heavy Weapons should deny armor saves, basic weapons should not.
Marleymoo wrote: Just wondering, do we know the official colour schemes of the newer hive fleets yet?
I don't think so; I don't think there's even anything much on it in the new WD as most of it is the stuff already leaked on the community pages. I think that we might see the new fleet in colour later this week if not on the weekend. That said I don't think GW will push it too hard; the paint scheem we have now on the front of the box is the "Face" of tyranids likely for a long while yet - probably until they update the gaunt boxes (not that I forsee them doing that for many more years)
I played those same editions and bolters were a big reason as to why genestealers weren't fielded after 4th and even then you didn't take them without extended carapace.
That's true. I was very sad when Stealers not only lost grenades, but they also gave tac marines Overwatch. Having a stealer rapid fired up as it popped from outflank, then, again as it charged, to only go last caused my 20 box to sit in my basement for the last 8 years.
As a marine player tho, its annoying that the most expensive MEQ troop, has the worst gun. Why not have something like, 3 shots in Rapid Fire range. or, exploding 6s to wound.
Marleymoo wrote: Just wondering, do we know the official colour schemes of the newer hive fleets yet?
For jormungandr, search Phill Kellys tyranids. He made that hive fleet as far as I can tell. Mostly black with yellow. Id guess they will keep that color as offical
I've always liked how they handle 'special characters' in the army. They're just extremely rare and powerful mutations of the blueprint. Aside from the Swarmlord, who's an intentional adaptation/evolution.
Horrah for 4++ 12 wound, T7 Tyrants!
SirOllox wrote: Do you think, the nids will get a huge new model equal to mortarion, gulliman or magnus?
Something big and powerfull...
Not this time around probably.. maybe in 2018... I dearly hope at least. A Dominatrix would be ideal.
It's for rule consistency. Not only does it identify that they work the same way as other artifacts but if they need to FAQ/eratta all artifacts they don't have to deal with 'well they are called mutations not artifacts so they are different'.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I still think the name "Bio-artefacts" sounds stupid. They really should name it "Specialist Mutations or something"
Agreed
NinthMusketeer wrote:It's for rule consistency. Not only does it identify that they work the same way as other artifacts but if they need to FAQ/eratta all artifacts they don't have to deal with 'well they are called mutations not artifacts so they are different'.
Tau are signature systems. There is no reason "relic" or "artifact" needs to be in the name of something that literally gets dissolved into a gruel and rebirthed over and over again.
The Trygon is already the size of a Riptide and the Swarmlord is a huge named hero. I think another big centerpiece character would just feel tacked on and get lost in the masses of big monsters Nids already have.
Requizen wrote: The Trygon is already the size of a Riptide and the Swarmlord is a huge named hero. I think another big centerpiece character would just feel tacked on and get lost in the masses of big monsters Nids already have.
Trygon was originally a Gargantuan so I would be ok with it being in a LoW slot.
SirOllox wrote: Do you think, the nids will get a huge new model equal to mortarion, gulliman or magnus?
Something big and powerfull...
'
I highly doubt that - they would have to dig in the fluff to pull an old armorcast/2nd ed nid out
Not necessarily.
They could reimagine the Norn Queen since it wasn't even mentioned in the last codex 2 editions ago outside of a artifact the Norn Crown it would be a great opportunity to build a super Tyrant to answer the Primarchs.
Requizen wrote: The Trygon is already the size of a Riptide and the Swarmlord is a huge named hero. I think another big centerpiece character would just feel tacked on and get lost in the masses of big monsters Nids already have.
I dunno. People thought the riptide was huge but ir didn't stop them releasing the stormsurge. Then there's wraothknights and Imperial Knights and the Lord Of Skulls.
I don't think a lord of war choice would be unexpected next codex, though really a new small based model would be nice. Like maybe tiny psychic gribblies made from Grey Knight biomatter or a termite type bug with heavy armor made to resist gauss weapons
Carnikang wrote: I've always liked how they handle 'special characters' in the army. They're just extremely rare and powerful mutations of the blueprint. Aside from the Swarmlord, who's an intentional adaptation/evolution.
Horrah for 4++ 12 wound, T7 Tyrants!
SirOllox wrote: Do you think, the nids will get a huge new model equal to mortarion, gulliman or magnus?
Something big and powerfull...
Not this time around probably.. maybe in 2018... I dearly hope at least. A Dominatrix would be ideal.
Dominatrix? Not asking for small things eh. Just one of their biggest bio titans. Warhound pales in comparison
Carnikang wrote: I've always liked how they handle 'special characters' in the army. They're just extremely rare and powerful mutations of the blueprint. Aside from the Swarmlord, who's an intentional adaptation/evolution.
Horrah for 4++ 12 wound, T7 Tyrants!
SirOllox wrote: Do you think, the nids will get a huge new model equal to mortarion, gulliman or magnus?
Something big and powerfull...
Not this time around probably.. maybe in 2018... I dearly hope at least. A Dominatrix would be ideal.
Dominatrix? Not asking for small things eh. Just one of their biggest bio titans. Warhound pales in comparison
i just want to equip it with massive lash whips and say "My Dominatrix has whipped your unit because they were naughty. Kneel before her"
...pretty much that.
I'd settle for a plastic Heirodule dual kit though.
Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
Dynas wrote: Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
Flyrants can DS now and Devs with BL doubled in shots/went down in points.
Theyll have a place again.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
In reality this just means you're forcing your opponent to kill your guy in one round instead of leaving him crippled.
Dynas wrote: Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
It is "Reduce the damage of the attack by 1, to a minimun of 1". A Lasscanon shoot doing 6 of damage will do the Tyrant 5 damage, not 1.
Galas wrote: I love how they have made Tyranid special characters.
I don't know if it'll get broke somehow, but I'm definitely a fan of the approach as well. Codes should shape up to be equal with the rest at least, which is really all a Tyranid player can ask for at this point. So I'm happy for them at least.
Dynas wrote: Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
It is "Reduce the damage of the attack by 1, to a minimun of 1". A Lasscanon shoot doing 6 of damage will do the Tyrant 5 damage, not 1.
correect its the same ability Abberants have in mountain of muscle
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
I do belive tyrant guards can help with this. If you take a little damage, tank it on the tyrant. Any adition damage can go on the guards. Works even better as Leaviathan 6+++. Or with gorgon relic.
'Gorgon relic: after being wounded the first time gain 1T for the rest of the game'
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I still think the name "Bio-artefacts" sounds stupid. They really should name it "Specialist Mutations or something"
Agreed
NinthMusketeer wrote:It's for rule consistency. Not only does it identify that they work the same way as other artifacts but if they need to FAQ/eratta all artifacts they don't have to deal with 'well they are called mutations not artifacts so they are different'.
Tau are signature systems. There is no reason "relic" or "artifact" needs to be in the name of something that literally gets dissolved into a gruel and rebirthed over and over again.
Remember last edition after the faq hit saying "only 1 relic/artifact per character", and for months people debated if Tau signature systems counted as artifacts or not? That right there is a good enough reason for standardizing names, even if they do end up sounding a bit stupid - it clears ambiguity.
Dynas wrote: Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
It is "Reduce the damage of the attack by 1, to a minimun of 1". A Lasscanon shoot doing 6 of damage will do the Tyrant 5 damage, not 1.
correect its the same ability Abberants have in mountain of muscle
Kraken clearly stole Serpent Shields from Iyanden.
Dynas wrote: Not sure how I feel about them limiting the new guns to specific hive fleets. Seems like they are trying to shoe horn play styles to specific fleets, which i guess is fine form a game perspective. BUt from a fluff perspective and evolution standpoint if a certain big gun is available or needed, why wouldn't any hive fleet be able to evolve or biomorph that.
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Is dakka Flyrant still going to be a thing or are people going to be running them with the melee loadout still?
It is "Reduce the damage of the attack by 1, to a minimun of 1". A Lasscanon shoot doing 6 of damage will do the Tyrant 5 damage, not 1.
Doh, Misread. I stand corrected. Not nearly as good now.
Walking hive Tyrants a thing now, or is Swarmy still better? Flyrants only?
Strangelooper wrote: Does this mean that all of the special characters (Red Terror, Old One Eye etc) mentioned, are now HQ choices? That would be really nice!
Maybe I'm just wishfully interpreting the implication in the article...
Rumours, like leaks, has it that they have not changed position from where they where in the index.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I still don't see what was so bad about walking tyrants & tyrant guard in the index. Or is this discussion referring to tournament-level play?
From what has come out it seems very good. A lot of bad things got better, some common tyranid problebs (synapse) seems to be fixed. The different hive fleets look awsome. If people are complaining, it is because they compare it to competetive lists like Gylliman + 6 assault cannon razor backs + 6 lascannon marines. Can the codex beat that? We will have to wait and see. Does that afect 95% of the people playing tyranids? No. The codex so far seems great.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I still don't see what was so bad about walking tyrants & tyrant guard in the index. Or is this discussion referring to tournament-level play?
From what has come out it seems very good. A lot of bad things got better, some common tyranid problebs (synapse) seems to be fixed. The different hive fleets look awsome. If people are complaining, it is because they compare it to competetive lists like Gylliman + 6 assault cannon razor backs + 6 lascannon marines. Can the codex beat that? We will have to wait and see. Does that afect 95% of the people playing tyranids? No. The codex so far seems great.
I'm saying tyrants & tguard worked perfectly well for me already, without the upcoming improvements.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
^This
Also if the tyrant has tyrant guard with it it'll be even harder.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I still don't see what was so bad about walking tyrants & tyrant guard in the index. Or is this discussion referring to tournament-level play?
Not much, though enough high strength, multi damage weapons and you can drop them fairly quickly. I just don't think many people had them after the last 3 1/2 years of Flyrant spam. I think the real problem was that on paper the Swarmlord was the better choice.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I still don't see what was so bad about walking tyrants & tyrant guard in the index. Or is this discussion referring to tournament-level play?
Not much, though enough high strength, multi damage weapons and you can drop them fairly quickly. I just don't think many people had them after the last 3 1/2 years of Flyrant spam. I think the real problem was that on paper the Swarmlord was the better choice.
This. If you want a Walkrant you might as well take the Swarmlord. Though some of those new relic guns has me considering a dakka tyrant. I generally always felt dakka MCs with heavy weapons were a waste since they generally preformed better in CC but a heavy weapon that ignores imvuln saves along with the Smite spam we can bring seems.prettt nice.
Something that immediately jumped out at me is Kraken flyrant with the miasma cannon. Having freedom to fall back, shoot the autohit s9 ap-2 d3 gun at a troublesome vehicle then charge to finish it off instead of just sitting there like a dummy is fantastic. Wondering if there will be a semblance of balance between tyrant melee choices now.
It might change with a points reduction but right now its hard to see how foot Tyrants are cost efficient (and fly Tyrants are not great either).
They can do a bit of everything. They have good psychic, okay melee (but not so great versus hordes or vehicles - which I think is the meta) and pretty weak shooting. So you really need to be getting your moneys worth by killing things in every phase. Which is possible - although Wings help getting into assault.
The real issue is that its in a package that is currently highly efficient to shoot with heavy weapons. And okay you can have Tyrant Guard eat the wounds - but they are pretty efficient to shoot with a range of weapons too.
A points reduction, 2 extra wounds and 4++ may go someway to changing that, as it means it will take around 50% more lascannon hits to bring him down (before you start looking at any of the new abilities in the codex).
Still not sure he really brings enough offensively but we shall have to see.
I usually ran a melee footrant (swarmlord or a generic for low point games) that had bare bones tguard following him around, with a shooting tyrant that hung around in the back to bubble out synapse. The one in the back threw physic buffs onto the units in front while the tyrant in front usually did an offensive power & smite every round. Front tyrant ended up dead by the end of almost every game but did enough damage/ate enough shooting for him to be worth it.
So obviously I'm pretty happy with the tyrant changes!
I guess it depends on what sort of lists you regularly face.
I wouldn't ever make a tyrant my warlord, even a codex tyrant. Just because why would I take a warlord which can be shot at, even if it's really tough, if I could instead take one that's nearly immune to being touched at all until most of my army is dead?
The codex tyrant certainly sounds mean enough to make a good secondary HQ though.
I played those same editions and bolters were a big reason as to why genestealers weren't fielded after 4th and even then you didn't take them without extended carapace.
That's true. I was very sad when Stealers not only lost grenades, but they also gave tac marines Overwatch. Having a stealer rapid fired up as it popped from outflank, then, again as it charged, to only go last caused my 20 box to sit in my basement for the last 8 years.
As a marine player tho, its annoying that the most expensive MEQ troop, has the worst gun. Why not have something like, 3 shots in Rapid Fire range. or, exploding 6s to wound.
Yep I've been saying that for years, every army get a bonus to its basic weapon in some way, bar marines, a 6 to wound should be damage 2 or ap-1 at least
Formosa wrote: Yep I've been saying that for years, every army get a bonus to its basic weapon in some way, bar marines, a 6 to wound should be damage 2 or ap-1 at least
Lasgun has first rank second rank for extra shots, sluga isn't orks basic weapon, tis a pistol and shoota had assault 2 on a mega cheap ork that was still good at combat, now? Not sure haven't read the index on them.
Eldar have blade storm
Necrons had gauss
Tau have range, strength and the fireblade, ethereal etc.
Nids have very cheap spamable firepower, lots of options for different weapons.
It kinda leaves the humble Bolter a bit lack lister as it's neither cheap enough to spam (orks, nids, guard), nor powerful enough to want to take in numbers (necrons, eldar), note this is not a complaint however, just an observation, I would like to see all bolt weapons get a slight buff in some manner, my ideal Bolter would be (I know most won't agree lol)
Str4 ap- range rapid fire 3 damage 1 18" special rules: "mass reactive" any to wound roll of a 6 or higher causes 2 wounds instead of 1.
I know it's probably not amazing but I see the Bolter as a short range assault weapon with overwhelming firepower.
If you start counting imperial guard orders as boost for weapons then you should count chapter tactic boosts as well. And assault 2 is stat of a weapon. Like STR4 in bolter. So there. Bolter speciality is rapid fire and S4.
tneva82 wrote: If you start counting imperial guard orders as boost for weapons then you should count chapter tactic boosts as well. And assault 2 is stat of a weapon. Like STR4 in bolter. So there. Bolter speciality is rapid fire and S4.
I don't count the chapter tactics as only some get the bonus, where as all guard (for example) get access to there specific bonus/use.
We all know that the Bolter has been a bit lackluster for nearly every edition so far, through a combination of expensive (relatively) platform and fairly meh stats, but mostly for me, it just doesn't "feel" right and never has done, str4 ap5 (-) rapid fire (2) 24" and that's it, that doesn't look or feel like a mass reactive rapid fire grenade launcher, I just think it needs a slight buff/shuffle to get the feel right, same with all bolt weapons.
tneva82 wrote: If you start counting imperial guard orders as boost for weapons then you should count chapter tactic boosts as well. And assault 2 is stat of a weapon. Like STR4 in bolter. So there. Bolter speciality is rapid fire and S4.
How are chapter tactics equivalent to guard orders? Chapter tactics are the same thing as regimental doctrines. Guard orders are most equivalent to the reroll 1's that captains get, which is not a very favorable comparison for the space marines.
I think this is the first time I ever complain on GW pricing on a forum.
Generally, my time is more worth than the price of the plastic/metall/resin, but:
$81 for the Red Terror
I know it's resin, but still. I think the old metal Red Terror (who is still languishing in my tyranid cabinet) was $16 or maybe $18...
tneva82 wrote: How is orders part of weapon stats? Last time I checked orders are not listed in lasgun stats.
You want to see what speciality lasgun has, look at the lasgun rules.
I didn't specify weapon stats? I said that every army has a way to boost the basic weapon, guard orders was just an example of that, an ability army wide that can make the basic weapon perform better, this either doesn't exist for marines, or is specific to certain chapter tactics.
tneva82 wrote: How is orders part of weapon stats? Last time I checked orders are not listed in lasgun stats.
You want to see what speciality lasgun has, look at the lasgun rules.
I didn't specify weapon stats? I said that every army has a way to boost the basic weapon, guard orders was just an example of that, an ability army wide that can make the basic weapon perform better, this either doesn't exist for marines, or is specific to certain chapter tactics.
Except the way to boost "the basic weapon" for Imperial Fists also boosts the specialized versions.
Bolter Drill(which is a Stratagem and stacks with the rerolls to Hit and Wound auras that Lieutenants, Chapter Masters, and Captains bring to the field) specifies that it also applies to Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, etc.
FRFSRF is of a diminished capacity outside of Conscript Squads, thanks to the mandatory Pistol that Guard Sergeants are required to have. It's, in my opinion, a bit of a false equivalency to bring it up without noting that the unit which benefits the most from that specific Order is the most troublesome unit in the book to balance it seems.
I'm confused by the previous pages.
Why are people complaining about how 'bad' Guard lasguns are, or that Bolters need to be better at killing 2+ models per shot at all ranges?
Because in 8th edition you can't have a thread about another army without someone complaining about how they would like Space Marines buffed to some new broken level.
Red Terror is $41.25 US. Double it's cost from back in the day, but more in line with the plastic kits now. Can't say I'm surprised. I won't be buying one at that price point.
All this sounds really, really nice! I kind of regret selling my rather large Tyranid force a few years ago now. It was a tough time being a Tyranid player, so I decided to go with a different army, which I've also sold now in favour of starting my own Space Marine chapter with Primaris.
'Nids definitely look interesting now though. Oh well, that's the life of a wargamer, you always want everything..
adamsouza wrote: Because in 8th edition you can't have a thread about another army without someone complaining about how they would like Space Marines buffed to some new broken level.
Red Terror is $41.25 US. Double it's cost from back in the day, but more in line with the plastic kits now. Can't say I'm surprised. I won't be buying one at that price point.
Who was complaining?
I was just commenting that the Bolter needs a buff, and it's pertinent to the thread as nids are one of the reason for this, lack of oomf against the big ones, not enough shots for the little ones.
But back on topic, I'm liking a lot of these changes but not liking the new instinctive behaviour or synapse, I think complete immunity to morale is a bit much in this ed for large units, and IB is just .... pointless? Again it just seems to lack the feel of what happens when you destroy all the synapse ?
Red terror is probably a really easy conversion honestly. I have my eye on a spare hive tyrant flying tail, and the torso of a broodlord I hacked up for conversions. Add on some appropriate scything talons and I only really need to come up with a head.
I've always identified as a nid player. So im very happy to feel like the army has it's teeth back. And I love that we tend to be introspective enough to want a Nerf to our IB. (I played back in the fearless days of the 3rd and 5th Ed books.) But, as far as IB back then you had to roll a LD4 or auto move 6 towards the nearest synapse, or board edge. We made it work, back then, and IB was still fun, and a good point of Counter Play when, your synapse couldn't hide.
I'll buy a red terror. All of the ones I've seen on eBay, are caked in choppy black primer.
Bolters are the worst MEQ gun. Not sure why people are talking about last guns. (Traditionally the only gun Gaunts had t-shirt saves against)
I think this is the first time I ever complain on GW pricing on a forum.
Generally, my time is more worth than the price of the plastic/metall/resin, but:
$81 for the Red Terror
I know it's resin, but still. I think the old metal Red Terror (who is still languishing in my tyranid cabinet) was $16 or maybe $18...
Feeder Tendrils is essentially a 'must use' since you pretty much are giving yourself 67% chance of gaining CPs if you hit the pre-reqs.
The Psychic Barrage, while amusing, seems a pain in the ass to try to pull off. Not to mention that it apparently also affects friendlies (easy to mitigate, but still).
Pathogenic Slime is gonna be really good. I'm expecting my Exocrines/Tfexes to make good use of it.
Hyper-Toxicity will make Gorgon stealers w/ toxin sacs nastier.
Deepest Shadow will be nice against psyker spam.
Caustic Blood will be nice to use when someone is trying to (and likely going to) slice through Horms or Termas.
Feeder Tendrils is essentially a 'must use' since you pretty much are giving yourself 67% chance of gaining CPs if you hit the pre-reqs.
The Psychic Barrage, while amusing, seems a pain in the ass to try to pull off. Not to mention that it apparently also affects friendlies (easy to mitigate, but still).
Pathogenic Slime is gonna be really good. I'm expecting my Exocrines/Tfexes to make good use of it.
Hyper-Toxicity will make Gorgon stealers w/ toxin sacs nastier.
Deepest Shadow will be nice against psyker spam.
Caustic Blood will be nice to use when someone is trying to (and likely going to) slice through Horms or Termas.
Tendrils is kind of silly since it's 'must use'.
Barrage is way too many hoops to jump through (like most of the other full unit shooting stratagems for other armies).
Slime is great. As is Hyper-Toxicity.
Deepest Shadow is almost worthless against psyker spam. It's great against armies with a low number of powerful psykers. If your opponent has 10 guys casting Smite, possibly stopping one of them isn't that great.
Caustic Blood is crazy cause you can use it on your fight phase and the opponent can't opt not to fight back.
Psychic Barrage if I'm reading it right requires 3 units of 3 zoanthropes in each group. That's 9zoanthropes to work?
That sounds like the kind of ability that is only going to work in the first turn or two before you take any losses and also sounds like a big points investment for just one ability.
Like someone else said sounds like a lot of eggs in one basket to pull off.
Deepest Shadow is really great with the Warlord Trait of Kronos, where a Psyker in 18 inch with your WL gets D3 mortal wounds, if he fails the test. Also SitW gives a -1 to cast.
This can be brutal, cause it can potentially kill a psyker.
A Carnifex with four devourers with brainleech worms using this ability will be pumping out 24 Strength 6 shots, each dealing 2 damage – perfect for overwhelming Terminators, Primaris Space Marines and other tough targets.
Ok. Damage 2 is from the strategem. But how do I get a Carnifex with 24 shots? Did I miss something? Are devourers with brainleech going up to Assault 6? Can Carnifex do a Leman-Russ-style double shot now?
A Carnifex with four devourers with brainleech worms using this ability will be pumping out 24 Strength 6 shots, each dealing 2 damage – perfect for overwhelming Terminators, Primaris Space Marines and other tough targets.
Ok. Damage 2 is from the strategem. But how do I get a Carnifex with 24 shots? Did I miss something? Are devourers with brainleech going up to Assault 6? Can Carnifex do a Leman-Russ-style double shot now?
Overread wrote: Psychic Barrage if I'm reading it right requires 3 units of 3 zoanthropes in each group. That's 9zoanthropes to work?
That sounds like the kind of ability that is only going to work in the first turn or two before you take any losses and also sounds like a big points investment for just one ability.
Like someone else said sounds like a lot of eggs in one basket to pull off.
But just... imagine that you use it. Is like Exodia. Is not a trick you try to use in a tournament, but is the kind of thing that is only gonna work 1 of every 10 games, but when it works is beautifull.
Overread wrote: Psychic Barrage if I'm reading it right requires 3 units of 3 zoanthropes in each group. That's 9zoanthropes to work?
That sounds like the kind of ability that is only going to work in the first turn or two before you take any losses and also sounds like a big points investment for just one ability.
Like someone else said sounds like a lot of eggs in one basket to pull off.
But just... imagine that you use it. Is like Exodia. Is not a trick you try to use in a tournament, but is the kind of thing that is only gonna work 1 of every 10 games, but when it works is beautifull.
Definitely the kind of Strategem that I'll muck around with for a couple of games just to say I did, and then never deal with again until I feel like having some lulz.
tneva82 wrote: If you start counting imperial guard orders as boost for weapons then you should count chapter tactic boosts as well. And assault 2 is stat of a weapon. Like STR4 in bolter. So there. Bolter speciality is rapid fire and S4.
I don't count the chapter tactics as only some get the bonus, where as all guard (for example) get access to there specific bonus/use.
We all know that the Bolter has been a bit lackluster for nearly every edition so far, through a combination of expensive (relatively) platform and fairly meh stats, but mostly for me, it just doesn't "feel" right and never has done, str4 ap5 (-) rapid fire (2) 24" and that's it, that doesn't look or feel like a mass reactive rapid fire grenade launcher, I just think it needs a slight buff/shuffle to get the feel right, same with all bolt weapons.
Probably the incorrect thread for this, but my thoughts for Bolt Weapons was for them to force a reroll of successful saves if it wounded on a 6. Not very game breaking, and gives them Bladestorm lite. Then the basic Necron weapon has better piercing in general, Orks have Assault so they can advance (and had the bonus last edition of being able to charge, but this is a new edition so), Tau have basic guns that are good, and the swarm armies like Orks, Guard, and Tyranids have cheap guns to keep them cheap.
That's about all I got to say.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.
My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.
Tau have a 30" rapid fire 1 str 5 dmg 1
Bolters are 24" rapid fire 1 str 4 dmg 1
Fleshborers are 12" assault 1 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are 24 rapid fire 1 str 3 dmg 1
Shoota are 18" assault 2 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are weaker, come on cheaper platforms and those platforms die a lot faster
Shootas and fleshborers loose some to a lot on range to gain assault with shootas getting an extra shot to have categorically worse chance to hit.
Tau are clearly the best but come on less durable platforms with a 4+ BS, no chances for any of the special or heavy weapons, and they crumple instantly in melee.
Across the board. Those guns on their platforms seem balanced to me. You have space marines with good (for infantry) toughness and (for anyone) saves running around with a 0 point rapid fire gun with a range that is second only to the tau and the higher end of the str spectrum for free infantry guns that tips them over the critical point of wounding on 3+ against GEQ and 4+ against MEQ and only wounding on a 6 against T8+.
I honestly believe what SM players are seeing is a hold over from 7th. Your used to having ap6 from 7th meaning all those gribbly hordes lost all their saves. But str 4 over 3 is a big deal. And it's even bigger on a 3+ BS platform with a 3+ save that can fair decently enough in melee whether geared for it or not.
On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.
My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.
Its only a hard counter to the adaptation. Jormungdr's rumored stratagem is going to make for some very diverse and incredible tactics on the table. I wouldn't even care if I lost my cover fighting them with what I intend to pull off with the stratagem.
For the Pathogenic slime, do you use that before you roll to hit, to wound, or after you know your wound results?
So if you get a really good result of wounds, say you get 20 out of 24 dice or something, then you can use it to double, rather than chance it on the attack, roll crap and only get like 5 wounds.
Causatic blood on a unit of suicide hormies into a big nasty unit would be hilarious.
Lance845 wrote: Tau have a 30" rapid fire 1 str 5 dmg 1
Bolters are 24" rapid fire 1 str 4 dmg 1
Fleshborers are 12" assault 1 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are 24 rapid fire 1 str 3 dmg 1
Shoota are 18" assault 2 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are weaker, come on cheaper platforms and those platforms die a lot faster
Shootas and fleshborers loose some to a lot on range to gain assault with shootas getting an extra shot to have categorically worse chance to hit.
Tau are clearly the best but come on less durable platforms with a 4+ BS, no chances for any of the special or heavy weapons, and they crumple instantly in melee.
Across the board. Those guns on their platforms seem balanced to me. You have space marines with good (for infantry) toughness and (for anyone) saves running around with a 0 point rapid fire gun with a range that is second only to the tau and the higher end of the str spectrum for free infantry guns that tips them over the critical point of wounding on 3+ against GEQ and 4+ against MEQ and only wounding on a 6 against T8+.
I honestly believe what SM players are seeing is a hold over from 7th. Your used to having ap6 from 7th meaning all those gribbly hordes lost all their saves. But str 4 over 3 is a big deal. And it's even bigger on a 3+ BS platform with a 3+ save that can fair decently enough in melee whether geared for it or not.
On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.
My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.
Its only a hard counter to the adaptation. Jormungdr's rumored stratagem is going to make for some very diverse and incredible tactics on the table. I wouldn't even care if I lost my cover fighting them with what I intend to pull off with the stratagem.
I'm pretty sure you're just supposed to buy Primaris since they have a -1 bolter. Honestly, as someone who plays many different factions, I wish they'd just squatted old marines and re-released the line as the primaris. Because doing it the way they have, makes marines as a whole seem really lack-luster.
Hrm. So running some numbers, against T8/3+ (and 2+), the Crush Claws run a _slight_ advantage in dmg per turn over 2x ScyTals....but definitely is weaker when not charging.
Dont need spine banks for shooting or spore cist b/c of Malantrhope
Monsterous talons
Bone mace
Monsterous claws for AP and vehicles
with kraken fleet, breakoff and recharge every turn
Tusk +1 atack when charge
Living battering ram (4+ wound, +1 WS on charge)
Near OOE another +1 to hit in fight; so now hitting on 2+ &
reroll 1's (claws hit on 3+ reroll 1's)
Toxin sacs and AG (6+ is plus 1 damage, and +1 to charge)
67+24+14+2+5+4 =114
Thats not counting the tusk which if comparable to Bio Plasma which is 11 points. we are looking at about 125 ish.
5 S6 attacks hitting on 2+ with reroll of 1's; 6's deal +1 dmg
OR use claws 5 S12 -3 AP 3 dmg attacks that hit on 3+ reroll 1's; 6's deal +1 dmg plus a chance for 4+ mortal wound.
Those claws have a potential for 20 wounds on a 3+ vs T7. Bye bye Razorbacks.
And with the Fleet you can recharge and do this every turn.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.
We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote: Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?
Wanting it to fill an assault role, I would imagine.
That's a strong build though, just a shame it lacks any passive ap and the thresher scythe can only be used for one attack.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.
We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.
It also has the unique Bio-plasmic Scream weapon, which has better range, potential shots, and AP than the base Bio-plasma, as well as a fear aura that simply isn’t available to other carnifexes in any form.
changemod wrote: Given the venom canon is a worse lascanon in all respects other than that it's not heavy, I would hope it has a point drop to be worth taking.
Still, I can imagine myself taking one just for cool factor, I guess.
The venom cannon is a better missile launcher, and everyone already takes missile launchers. It is definitely worth taking.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.
We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.
It also has the unique Bio-plasmic Scream weapon, which has better range, potential shots, and AP than the base Bio-plasma, as well as a fear aura that simply isn’t available to other carnifexes in any form.
Yeah, but d6 shots at BS4 isn't all that strong an incentive over more attacks. *shrug*
I just like the 36" range. I am planing on having 6 hive guards, 1 tyranofex with big canno, and 2 or 3 carnifexes. I am planing on putting plasma on those carbifexes to have long range support from round 1. 24 and 18 is cool and all, but then I start walking into razorback country.
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
So I was placing an order for some stuff, and I noticed that if you add the Hive Tyrant to your cart, it is listed as "Made to Order" and will take 35 days to ship.
I found this to be highly confusing, and I wondered if anyone knows if this was a mistake, or if possibly this might have been a slip up pointing to a new kit in the future?
Luke_Prowler wrote: Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down too fast. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!
Luke_Prowler wrote: Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.
Dunno.
Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.
It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.
Luke_Prowler wrote: Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.
Dunno.
Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.
It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.
I mean, is this any worse than auto exploding vehicles?
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius]. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!
I am confused. Can we make the swarmlord more survivable?
Luke_Prowler wrote: Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.
Dunno.
Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.
It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.
I somehow managed to completely pass over the "roll of a 6" part.
It's still pretty effective for the cost I think but not as broken as I originally thought lol.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius]. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!
I am confused. Can we make the swarmlord more survivable?
it is by its base now, because it's invuln went to a 4++ and it gained t7.
As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.
Eihnlazer wrote: As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.
Named characters can't take Relics anywhere else, so I would be super annoyed if Swarmlord was able to take one.
Eihnlazer wrote: As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.
Named characters can't take Relics anywhere else, so I would be super annoyed if Swarmlord was able to take one.
No other Named Character is like the Swarmlord. I don't think he will have the option to take relics, nor Old-One Eye's, etc... but... who knows.
Oh I don’t know. I figure a unit of 3 carnifexes with Kraken can move 7” and advance the highest of 3d6. Then in the psychic phase cast onslaught on them. Then in the shooting phase the Swarmlord can have them move again 7 more inches and advance the highest of 3D6 again. This is a 24” move right and then the unit can still assault. You can do the same trick with a large unit of Genestealers but get 28” up the board and assault and you don’t need catalyst to help.
Yep atm genestealers are the best unit to buff other than hive tyrants and superheavies.
20 stealers/w toxin and catalyst, a second move by swarmy, and a broodlord nearbye deal out enough dmg to kill almost anything.
80 str 4 -1 armor attacks that hit on 2 and do 2 dmg and -4 armor +1 more damage on a 5 to wound kill something or somethings and probably survive the retaliation.
Granted setting that up will probably cost 5 command points or more.
Not... really, to be honest. T6 and T7 are the same against the S8 and S9 things that usually get shot at a big monster like a hive tyrant. In fact the only good weapon that's coming to mind that it'd make any difference on is razorback assault cannons.
Lance845 wrote: Tau have a 30" rapid fire 1 str 5 dmg 1
Bolters are 24" rapid fire 1 str 4 dmg 1
Fleshborers are 12" assault 1 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are 24 rapid fire 1 str 3 dmg 1
Shoota are 18" assault 2 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are weaker, come on cheaper platforms and those platforms die a lot faster
Shootas and fleshborers loose some to a lot on range to gain assault with shootas getting an extra shot to have categorically worse chance to hit.
Tau are clearly the best but come on less durable platforms with a 4+ BS, no chances for any of the special or heavy weapons, and they crumple instantly in melee.
Across the board. Those guns on their platforms seem balanced to me. You have space marines with good (for infantry) toughness and (for anyone) saves running around with a 0 point rapid fire gun with a range that is second only to the tau and the higher end of the str spectrum for free infantry guns that tips them over the critical point of wounding on 3+ against GEQ and 4+ against MEQ and only wounding on a 6 against T8+.
I honestly believe what SM players are seeing is a hold over from 7th. Your used to having ap6 from 7th meaning all those gribbly hordes lost all their saves. But str 4 over 3 is a big deal. And it's even bigger on a 3+ BS platform with a 3+ save that can fair decently enough in melee whether geared for it or not.
On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.
My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.
Its only a hard counter to the adaptation. Jormungdr's rumored stratagem is going to make for some very diverse and incredible tactics on the table. I wouldn't even care if I lost my cover fighting them with what I intend to pull off with the stratagem.
S4 really isn't a big deal as much as you'd think. The profile of a Bolter is better than the Fleshborer and Lasgun by itself, but Mathhammer shows that those platforms perform better with the lesser weaponry, because the numbers are better. Then we have the better profiles of the Shoota (Assault 2 18" is better), the Tau S5 30" range, the Dire Avenger 18" Assault 2 but with Bladestorm, and the S4/-1 or S5/-2 of the Necron troops.
Would it really hurt to throw Bolt weaponry a bone at this point?
Bolters are actually fine in Sisters of Battle, because their cost and stats make the bolter as efective as a Marine. Then, they are worse at receiving fire and at meele, but those things aren't as important.
Galas wrote: Bolters are actually fine in Sisters of Battle, because their cost and stats make the bolter as efective as a Marine. Then, they are worse at receiving fire and at meele, but those things aren't as important.
But this is offtopic!
Sisters work because they get more special weapons that are doing the heavy lifting for the cost. They're one of the better designed troop choices, but I would still want that Bolter change on them as well.
Tougness 7 can make a difference against some armies.
Tau Missiles and plasma are strength 6 and 7. Kroot rifles
Any Imperial/Chaos plasma weapon, autocannon, grenade launcher, multilaser, imperial guard power fist, krak grenades, assault cannons. If you are facing Knights, their Gatling weapon
Eldar scatter lasers, shuriken cannons, star cannons, plasma weapons, scorpion claws.
Sure, it's not the best thing out there, but it does help.
T7 also helps a bit against some of the strength 12 weapons out there which are becoming more common, such as D-cannons, Prism cannon and Dreadnought CCWs
Feeder Tendrils is essentially a 'must use' since you pretty much are giving yourself 67% chance of gaining CPs if you hit the pre-reqs.
The Psychic Barrage, while amusing, seems a pain in the ass to try to pull off. Not to mention that it apparently also affects friendlies (easy to mitigate, but still).
Pathogenic Slime is gonna be really good. I'm expecting my Exocrines/Tfexes to make good use of it.
Hyper-Toxicity will make Gorgon stealers w/ toxin sacs nastier.
Deepest Shadow will be nice against psyker spam.
Caustic Blood will be nice to use when someone is trying to (and likely going to) slice through Horms or Termas.
Tendrils is kind of silly since it's 'must use'.
Barrage is way too many hoops to jump through (like most of the other full unit shooting stratagems for other armies).
Slime is great. As is Hyper-Toxicity.
Deepest Shadow is almost worthless against psyker spam. It's great against armies with a low number of powerful psykers. If your opponent has 10 guys casting Smite, possibly stopping one of them isn't that great.
Caustic Blood is crazy cause you can use it on your fight phase and the opponent can't opt not to fight back.
Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.
Deepest Shadow has matchup limits (no Psykers at all, cheap Psyker spam) which doesn't matter since it's a stratagem and thus optional.
Caustic Blood isn't that great (18 bodies ~3 MWs), although a nice on-the-fly tool when the situation calls for it.
Dynas wrote: The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.
Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.
To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.
I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius] It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!
Sorry to rain on your parade, but Swarmy is locked into the lame 're-deploy' Warlord trait. Pretty useless for a guy that has to sit in a pod 8/10 times or with Guards 2/10 times.
Luke_Prowler wrote: Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP
It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.
Dunno.
Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.
It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.
Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.
Hulksmash wrote: Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?
This. Let the Kronos backline deal with vehicles. Dakkafexes melts the rest.
Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.
Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.
Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.
Umm it's random roll so rather than max 5MW it's average 5MW, max 30. On 40k general topic there's discussion about probability vs average calculations.
Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.
Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.
Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.
Umm it's random roll so rather than max 5MW it's average 5MW, max 30. On 40k general topic there's discussion about probability vs average calculations.
It's not autowin on Tendrils though. I need to get the right gribbly eating the right brain. That's not terribly difficult for my opponent to dodge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the acid, that has to be declared before the combat. It's not one I can simply save up as a petty revenge tactic should a given combat be horribly one sided. As I said, it's useful, but not game breaking.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It's not autowin on Tendrils though. I need to get the right gribbly eating the right brain. That's not terribly difficult for my opponent to dodge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the acid, that has to be declared before the combat. It's not one I can simply save up as a petty revenge tactic should a given combat be horribly one sided. As I said, it's useful, but not game breaking.
Yes but if you kill character it's auto-use. It's not "use before attacking". It's "use if you kill character". In other words only MAYBE loss tyranids have from that is if there's fixed number of strategems Tyranids ever will have and this replaced even better one...In game there's only anything to claim.
And didn't say acid is broken or anything. Just noted max wounds is hardly 5. I have got more 6's than 5 with far less dices than 30.
Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.
Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.
There's nothing wrong, it's just a bonus you get for being pure Tyranids and meeting a certain condition. That's like saying Chapter Tactics or Warlord Traits are stupid and shouldn't be done because you always get them.
Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.
Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.
There's nothing wrong, it's just a bonus you get for being pure Tyranids and meeting a certain condition. That's like saying Chapter Tactics or Warlord Traits are stupid and shouldn't be done because you always get them.
Chapter tactic at least sacrifices OTHER chapter tactic. This one sacrifices nothing. Do other factions have free CP with no drawback strategems?
Free stuff was curse word in this forum during 7th ed(gladius etc). Suddenly it's okay because it's on tyranids?
Chapter tactic at least sacrifices OTHER chapter tactic. This one sacrifices nothing. Do other factions have free CP with no drawback strategems?
No, they just get a chance at free CP just from choosing certain units, warlord traits or relics: Gulliman, Abaddon, Tallyman, Kurov's Aquila, Fate Reader
Tyranids can get free CP from both choosing specific units and successfully performing a specific action with them.
Yup, most armies so far can get command points back somehow, the tyranid one requires your assassin's to go hunting as opposed to the commander simply being good at it.
Dynas wrote: I wonder if they Malanthrope will be added to the Feeder Tendrils strategem. Only time will tell.
Is the Malanthrope in the Codex?
No. It very likely will not be.
I know its not in the codex but eventually FW will drop 8th ed Imperial Armor books. The Malanthrope has the same shroud rule that the venomthrope has. Both models have tendrils on their face. Just seems logical is all.
The carnifex option that gives it -1 to hit when targeted by shooting specifically states that it does not work with the Venomthropes shroud ability.
However, if I remember correctly, the malanthropes spore cloud ability is called something different, and therefor these bonuses could stack!?
Is this correct, -2 to hit on my carnifexes would be too amazing.
Malanthrope is called Shrouding Spores, so is Venomthrope, the only difference is Venomthrope only effects infantry, Malanthrope effects everything (prob due to size). I doubt they will stack. I know the Craftworld/eldar got some things that stack but it will probably get FAQ.
Not a lot of actual news in this preview, but things of note:
As Astmeister noted above: it's nice that Lictors/Deathleapers no longer have IB. Makes a ton of sense.
Thing I noticed: "The Thornback is the master of shock-assault. In addition to causing mortal wounds to nearby models when it charges, this beast hits on a 3+ (going up to a 2+ if Old One Eye is around)." So I'm gonna guess the Thornback comes with the Tusks biomorph standard, unless the Thornback randomly has WS3+.
Jin wrote: Not a lot of actual news in this preview, but things of note:
As Astmeister noted above: it's nice that Lictors/Deathleapers no longer have IB. Makes a ton of sense.
Thing I noticed: "The Thornback is the master of shock-assault. In addition to causing mortal wounds to nearby models when it charges, this beast hits on a 3+ (going up to a 2+ if Old One Eye is around)." So I'm gonna guess the Thornback comes with the Tusks biomorph standard, unless the Thornback randomly has WS3+.
Tusks give the Fex simply +1A on the charge. Apparently all Carnifex variants hit on 3+ after charging due to Living Battering Ram. So I am not sure what benefit the Thornback actually has in comperison with VanillaFex.
Jin wrote: Not a lot of actual news in this preview, but things of note:
As Astmeister noted above: it's nice that Lictors/Deathleapers no longer have IB. Makes a ton of sense.
Thing I noticed: "The Thornback is the master of shock-assault. In addition to causing mortal wounds to nearby models when it charges, this beast hits on a 3+ (going up to a 2+ if Old One Eye is around)." So I'm gonna guess the Thornback comes with the Tusks biomorph standard, unless the Thornback randomly has WS3+.
Tusks give the Fex simply +1A on the charge. Apparently all Carnifex variants hit on 3+ after charging due to Living Battering Ram. So I am not sure what benefit the Thornback actually has in comperison with VanillaFex.
IIRC the Thornback deals extra mortal wounds to infantry and has ignore cover.
These Genestealer infestation nodes. Is this something that is model already? ARe those the little quarter size doo dads everyone use for objective markers. I see that being kinda of need, place them on all the objectives and use them to pop up when needed.
Also, would the 4+ armor save be worth it for giving up the extra move?
Dynas wrote: These Genestealer infestation nodes. Is this something that is model already? ARe those the little quarter size doo dads everyone use for objective markers. I see that being kinda of need, place them on all the objectives and use them to pop up when needed.
Also, would the 4+ armor save be worth it for giving up the extra move?
Since the advance and charge can be combined with other tyranid movement shenanigans, likely not.
As for the nodes, they seem terrible. They have to be behind your screen to not be wiped off the field by anyone wandering in via deep strike (or whatever). Destroyed if a single enemy is ever within 9" is just ridiculously vulnerable.
And yeah, I assume the tri-orifices with tentacles are supposed to be the 'nodes.'
Dynas wrote: These Genestealer infestation nodes. Is this something that is model already? ARe those the little quarter size doo dads everyone use for objective markers. I see that being kinda of need, place them on all the objectives and use them to pop up when needed.
Also, would the 4+ armor save be worth it for giving up the extra move?
Don't play nids myself, but if you already get an invul, the extra movement is much better than situational 4+ saves.
Pending changes to the Sporocyst. It might be a good way to protect your Genestealer blob to ensure as many get slingshot in by SL as possible. (Using Lictors/Sporocysts to push out the 9" deployment buffer)
Dynas wrote: These Genestealer infestation nodes. Is this something that is model already? ARe those the little quarter size doo dads everyone use for objective markers. I see that being kinda of need, place them on all the objectives and use them to pop up when needed.
Also, would the 4+ armor save be worth it for giving up the extra move?
Don't play nids myself, but if you already get an invul, the extra movement is much better than situational 4+ saves.
I'd say it's dependent on how you're running the Nids.
If you're having them foot slogging across the board and/or getting Swarmy sling-shotted across the table, the extra advance is useful.
If you're Deepstriking them via Trygon Tunnel or Lictor pheremone trail, you don't really _need_ that additional movement.
Dynas wrote: These Genestealer infestation nodes. Is this something that is model already? ARe those the little quarter size doo dads everyone use for objective markers. I see that being kinda of need, place them on all the objectives and use them to pop up when needed.
Also, would the 4+ armor save be worth it for giving up the extra move?
Don't play nids myself, but if you already get an invul, the extra movement is much better than situational 4+ saves.
I'd say it's dependent on how you're running the Nids.
If you're having them foot slogging across the board and/or getting Swarmy sling-shotted across the table, the extra advance is useful.
If you're Deepstriking them via Trygon Tunnel or Lictor pheremone trail, you don't really _need_ that additional movement.
I'd say it's a fair balance.
Agreed. Deepstriking stealers are facing chaff more often then not anyways so getting an extra pip of save is worth it - means you have more left after the chaff to do damage to the backfield. The advance and charge just isn't as necessary as you aren't advancing the turn they show up. In subsequent turns you still have plenty of movement plus potential hive fleet, onslaught or CP if you absolutely need more move later.
So depends on if the 4+ costs points and whether you value an extra save against basic weapons. Personally having used extended carapace back in the day, its well worth losing the advance and charge if they are already midfield or better. Getting better save vs bolters and such on overwatch, better saves vs chaff units in close combat, possible 3+ save from Jorm fleet for camping an objective. Seems worthwhile to me if its free.
I think the infestation nodes seem situational, but decent.
If you're up against an assaulty army, or one with a bunch of deepstrikers, then yeah, there's no point in using them.
On the other hand if you're up against a gunline, then you can give up a turn of movement for a turn 1 redeploy. Makes it a bit harder for that gunline to castle up in the corner opposite to where you've dropped most of your units.
It's just another option for deploying your genestealers.
Sure you'd be much better off deepstriking them in with a trygon, but the infestation nodes are free.
Arson Fire wrote: I think the infestation nodes seem situational, but decent.
If you're up against an assaulty army, or one with a bunch of deepstrikers, then yeah, there's no point in using them.
On the other hand if you're up against a gunline, then you can give up a turn of movement for a turn 1 redeploy. Makes it a bit harder for that gunline to castle up in the corner opposite to where you've dropped most of your units.
It's just another option for deploying your genestealers.
Sure you'd be much better off deepstriking them in with a trygon, but the infestation nodes are free.
This is what I was thinking, situationaly good but I'll take extra options over loosing options anyday.
Someone asked a couple pages back what the next Codexes will be.
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Chaos Daemons
... all before Christmas (at least that's what I heard.)
Which sets up an interesting question: Blood Angels versus Tyrannids. I really like what I am seeing for Tyrannids, what can GW do to make BA actually stand a chance against them?
Arson Fire wrote: I think the infestation nodes seem situational, but decent.
If you're up against an assaulty army, or one with a bunch of deepstrikers, then yeah, there's no point in using them.
On the other hand if you're up against a gunline, then you can give up a turn of movement for a turn 1 redeploy. Makes it a bit harder for that gunline to castle up in the corner opposite to where you've dropped most of your units.
It's just another option for deploying your genestealers.
Sure you'd be much better off deepstriking them in with a trygon, but the infestation nodes are free.
This is the main way to use them I'm seeing, or keeping a unit back as a counter strike unit, node behind you lines in a few places able to pop up a reinforcement on whichever flank looks like it will need it
Arson Fire wrote: I think the infestation nodes seem situational, but decent.
If you're up against an assaulty army, or one with a bunch of deepstrikers, then yeah, there's no point in using them.
On the other hand if you're up against a gunline, then you can give up a turn of movement for a turn 1 redeploy. Makes it a bit harder for that gunline to castle up in the corner opposite to where you've dropped most of your units.
It's just another option for deploying your genestealers.
Sure you'd be much better off deepstriking them in with a trygon, but the infestation nodes are free.
This is the main way to use them I'm seeing, or keeping a unit back as a counter strike unit, node behind you lines in a few places able to pop up a reinforcement on whichever flank looks like it will need it
Yeah being able to plop down a node in and among the gaunts during deployment when facing heavy shooting army ain't bad, they lose a turn of shooting, you lose a bit of turn 1 movement. I personally have ran out of room trying to get hormies, terms and stealers all deployed in and around my malathropes, this gives me some breathing room. Also yeah keeping some stealers in your back pocket for your gunline counter charge ain't bad either.
There's some stratagems though that combo with the lurking genestealers to keep in mind. There is one you can see from the twitch stream yesterday that for 1 CP you can bring a unit that is in reserves in and plop it next to a lictor rather then the normal way that unit is setup. So it works with lurking stealers, but only once a turn, costing a CP and requiring a lictor.
The nodes are a free upgrade, so it's really hard to see how they could be bad. Besides, I think people are overstating how much a drawback the 9" poof is. If your enemy is going out of their way to move into range that is a tactical win that you didn't pay any points for. If the enemy doesn't have to go out of their way to destroy it you probably placed the node poorly or it's late enough in the game that it doesn't matter anymore.
Full codex review is up.
I wonder what promted GW to include so many weapon costs into the base cost of the models.
Lots of minor points drops. Few really big ones, notably the Haruspex dropped like 80pts.
The haruspex dropping that many points is awesome. He seems pretty negative about the codex, but I think the changes are amazing. Tons of options and some great improvements where we needed them. Overall feeling very positive about the strengths.
Any more detail on the Jorgamund specific strategem? Rumor was allowing a monster to use the trygon tunnel which would be huge for something like the swarmlord or hausperex.
Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.
Umm it's random roll so rather than max 5MW it's average 5MW, max 30. On 40k general topic there's discussion about probability vs average calculations.
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
A detail that was missed in the leaks is that the base Venomthrope range is now 6" for 1-5 models, jumping to 9" with a full brood of six. So they get a much larger footprint compared to a Malanthrope for the same points (30 each), while a full unit can cover much of your deployment zone.
So can Venomthropes now. A unit of 3+ affect monsters too, and a unit of 6 has increased shrouding range
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
I really don't see why this is an issue unless you got it into your head to run a gunline for some reason. Your big bugs should be engaging on turn 2 so that's as long as they need protection for. After that the Venomthropes are useless anyway and if they're killing Venomthropes it's gun not pointed towards your other creatures.
Hypothetically. They're certainly more useful than normal Zoans. Honestly as someone who likes the classic 3rd ed nid list, it's a bit disenhartening they won't have a real direct damage spell and will instead be relying on less efficient mortal wounds.
Either way though, it's the least leftover useless models I can see.
Just the cost I suppose. But the Neurothrope seems pretty decent IMO. Could even run a Supreme Command detachment to get a few Kronos Neurothropes alongside a different detachment.
rollawaythestone wrote: Just the cost I suppose. But the Neurothrope seems pretty decent IMO. Could even run a Supreme Command detachment to get a few Kronos Neurothropes alongside a different detachment.
Why run them as Kronos? Re-roll 1's to hit in shooting if you stood still does nothing for Psychic attacks. Is it Kronos that has the Psychic stratagems and Warlord trait?
rollawaythestone wrote: Just the cost I suppose. But the Neurothrope seems pretty decent IMO. Could even run a Supreme Command detachment to get a few Kronos Neurothropes alongside a different detachment.
Why run them as Kronos? Re-roll 1's to hit in shooting if you stood still does nothing for Psychic attacks. Is it Kronos that has the Psychic stratagems and Warlord trait?
Yeah, with Kronos you can make enemy psykers cast using 1 dice, or hit them with mortal wounds when they roll bad on their test.
rollawaythestone wrote: Just the cost I suppose. But the Neurothrope seems pretty decent IMO. Could even run a Supreme Command detachment to get a few Kronos Neurothropes alongside a different detachment.
Why run them as Kronos? Re-roll 1's to hit in shooting if you stood still does nothing for Psychic attacks. Is it Kronos that has the Psychic stratagems and Warlord trait?
Yeah, with Kronos you can make enemy psykers cast using 1 dice, or hit them with mortal wounds when they roll bad on their test.
Whats interesting that I hadn't noticed was that you can use the Deepest Shadows stratagem with any Kronos unit - it doesn't even have to have Shadows in the Warp. So a 30 point Ripper Swarm could block Magnus from casting for 1CP.
So can Venomthropes now. A unit of 3+ affect monsters too, and a unit of 6 has increased shrouding range
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
I really don't see why this is an issue unless you got it into your head to run a gunline for some reason. Your big bugs should be engaging on turn 2 so that's as long as they need protection for. After that the Venomthropes are useless anyway and if they're killing Venomthropes it's gun not pointed towards your other creatures.
Seriously. It's a free upgrade, by definition it can't actually be 'hilariously bad' since it is making the unit stronger for no cost in points.
changemod wrote: The biggest problem I see with Zoans and Venoms is the unit size issue mixed with neurothropes being separate.
For example I currently own a Neuro and two Zoans. If I buy a new box to make the Zoans up to strength, I'll end up with two venoms.
Strictly speaking the most efficient solution I can see is get three boxes and make three Zoans, three Venoms and three Neuros.
Most efficient for me is 2 boxes, make 6 venomthropes, 4 zoanthropes, and 2 neurothopes. Zoanthrope leftovers are almost a complete model. I just sub in a warrior chest piece and cut up tail options from the trygon kit and have those go into the tyranid scenery pieces.
So can Venomthropes now. A unit of 3+ affect monsters too, and a unit of 6 has increased shrouding range
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
I really don't see why this is an issue unless you got it into your head to run a gunline for some reason. Your big bugs should be engaging on turn 2 so that's as long as they need protection for. After that the Venomthropes are useless anyway and if they're killing Venomthropes it's gun not pointed towards your other creatures.
New Rules:
The bubble is now 6" from the beginning. Affects only infantry.
If 3 or more models, also affects monsters.
If 6 models, range goes up to 9".
Source:
Miniwargaming Codex Preview Tyranids around 21:30, or the other preview youtube video linked earlier somewhere here from StrikingScorpion82 around 59:20.
So can Venomthropes now. A unit of 3+ affect monsters too, and a unit of 6 has increased shrouding range
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
I really don't see why this is an issue unless you got it into your head to run a gunline for some reason. Your big bugs should be engaging on turn 2 so that's as long as they need protection for. After that the Venomthropes are useless anyway and if they're killing Venomthropes it's gun not pointed towards your other creatures.
New Rules:
The bubble is now 6" from the beginning. Affects only infantry.
If 3 or more models, also affects monsters.
If 6 models, range goes up to 9".
Source:
Miniwargaming Codex Preview Tyranids around 21:30, or the other preview youtube video linked earlier somewhere here from StrikingScorpion82 around 59:20.
Edit:
Point costs seems to increase to 30 ppm.
So if I've worked this out properly if you deploy a unit of 4 at the full 2" apart then thats a 24"ish wide area of coverage for 120pts? I might be wrong, I'm very tired.
So if I've worked this out properly if you deploy a unit of 4 at the full 2" apart then thats a 24"ish wide area of coverage for 120pts? I might be wrong, I'm very tired.
So can Venomthropes now. A unit of 3+ affect monsters too, and a unit of 6 has increased shrouding range
Yeah, kill one of three and they are down to infantry only. Kill one of six models and they are down to 3". Hilariously bad.
I really don't see why this is an issue unless you got it into your head to run a gunline for some reason. Your big bugs should be engaging on turn 2 so that's as long as they need protection for. After that the Venomthropes are useless anyway and if they're killing Venomthropes it's gun not pointed towards your other creatures.
So because not 100% of all lists will have a shooting base, we shouldn't have good units to protect them? Ok. Most nid players sometimes run a shooting base because it's fun to shoot things dead and win games, and nids sorely need shooty anti-tank (melee anti-tank isn't really working that well). That you can remove the -1 to hit penalty for shooting at nids by just inflicting 3 wounds to an T4 model is hilariously bad, at a cost of 90 points.
New Rules:
The bubble is now 6" from the beginning. Affects only infantry.
If 3 or more models, also affects monsters.
If 6 models, range goes up to 9".
Source:
Miniwargaming Codex Preview Tyranids around 21:30, or the other preview youtube video linked earlier somewhere here from StrikingScorpion82 around 59:20.
Edit:
Point costs seems to increase to 30 ppm.
Point costs reduced to 30 ppm you mean (31 in the index after paying for Toxic Lashes).
Was looking at my Index last night, and just couldn’t see what the use of it is.
It’s a character and has 9 wounds, so for no reason at all really, the enemy can’t shoot at it unless it’s the nearest thing. It’s laughable if you see the model, which resembles a hive tyrant (which can be shot due to having 12 wounds) on a stick. It couldn’t be a more obvious target.
That said, the 3” aura from a malanthrope doesn’t look great compared to the 9” one you’d get from 6 venoms - who could spread around all over the place. I just have to weigh up the cost of them against just buying spore cysts for the 18 carnifexes I’m thinking of fielding
For what it’s worth I think neurothropes might be the way to go for warlords. I like the Starship Troopers idea of having a bunch of scary monsters controlled by a brain bug. They can also pick up the relic and run off with it, unlike any monster character.
Was looking at my Index last night, and just couldn’t see what the use of it is.
It’s a character and has 9 wounds, so for no reason at all really, the enemy can’t shoot at it unless it’s the nearest thing. It’s laughable if you see the model, which resembles a hive tyrant (which can be shot due to having 12 wounds) on a stick. It couldn’t be a more obvious target.
Maleceptor, not Malanthrope
The Maleceptor got a slight 12pt reduction, can use 2 powers per turn (still with the +1 psychic test bonus), and it's psychic overload ability now does 3 mortal wounds on a roll of 6. Most importantly, its invuln save increased to 4++ like a Hive Tyrant.
Something I had considered is to drop it via pod then use Metabolic Movement strat to get it in the perfect position to inflict a ton of mortal wounds. You can either cast both Smite and Psychic Scream on a single target, or use psychic overload to hit a bunch of nearby units grouped together (which can't be denied). You then have T7 4++ monster right on top of the enemy spreading Shadow in the Warp. It's a bit of a kamikaze unit, but I think it can be the new distraction carnifex.
Mandragola wrote: That said, the 3” aura from a malanthrope doesn’t look great compared to the 9” one you’d get from 6 venoms - who could spread around all over the place. I just have to weigh up the cost of them against just buying spore cysts for the 18 carnifexes I’m thinking of fielding
6 venoms would be exactly 18x spore cyst for carnifexes, if i remember correctly. 6x30 vs 18x10.
For what it’s worth I think neurothropes might be the way to go for warlords. I like the Starship Troopers idea of having a bunch of scary monsters controlled by a brain bug. They can also pick up the relic and run off with it, unlike any monster character.
They are very good as it seems. Nasty psyker, character, synapse and cheap. Nothing else to wish for the points.
So because not 100% of all lists will have a shooting base, we shouldn't have good units to protect them? Ok. Most nid players sometimes run a shooting base because it's fun to shoot things dead and win games, and nids sorely need shooty anti-tank (melee anti-tank isn't really working that well). That you can remove the -1 to hit penalty for shooting at nids by just inflicting 3 wounds to an T4 model is hilariously bad, at a cost of 90 points.
[...]
Seriously. It's a free upgrade, by definition it can't actually be 'hilariously bad' since it is making the unit stronger for no cost in points.
It's a lateral move from useless to hilariously bad.
The opponent still has to shoot min 3 models with T4 W3 off the board. Thats 9 wounds, they have too shoot at with -1 to hit, maybe cover, before the screen vanishes (for infantery). And if they use high damage stuff to kill them faster, even better. These would not shoot at your other big boys this turn.
The malanthrope might be considered super great, but in my opinions its kind of annoying to play too. 3" is very short, if you want to advance, and it literally does nothing else.
Until codex we had no choice to mitigate a part of the enemys shooting with other abilities. Now we have. Venoms may include monsters as long 3-6 models, spore cysts protect fexes, Hive fleet ability gives +1 armor (cover). Synapse Range is larger (IB at 24", not 12"/8" any more).
And with neurothrope we got a cheaper HQ which can even Smite and/or Psi. Malanthrope is no auto take any more, depending on playstyle of course.
Was looking at my Index last night, and just couldn’t see what the use of it is.
It’s a character and has 9 wounds, so for no reason at all really, the enemy can’t shoot at it unless it’s the nearest thing. It’s laughable if you see the model, which resembles a hive tyrant (which can be shot due to having 12 wounds) on a stick. It couldn’t be a more obvious target.
Maleceptor, not Malanthrope
The Maleceptor got a slight 12pt reduction, can use 2 powers per turn (still with the +1 psychic test bonus), and it's psychic overload ability now does 3 mortal wounds on a roll of 6. Most importantly, its invuln save increased to 4++ like a Hive Tyrant.
Something I had considered is to drop it via pod then use Metabolic Movement strat to get it in the perfect position to inflict a ton of mortal wounds. You can either cast both Smite and Psychic Scream on a single target, or use psychic overload to hit a bunch of nearby units grouped together (which can't be denied). You then have T7 4++ monster right on top of the enemy spreading Shadow in the Warp. It's a bit of a kamikaze unit, but I think it can be the new distraction carnifex.
That might be enough to add it to my shopping list
The Maleceptor got a slight 12pt reduction, can use 2 powers per turn (still with the +1 psychic test bonus), and it's psychic overload ability now does 3 mortal wounds on a roll of 6. Most importantly, its invuln save increased to 4++ like a Hive Tyrant.
Something I had considered is to drop it via pod then use Metabolic Movement strat to get it in the perfect position to inflict a ton of mortal wounds. You can either cast both Smite and Psychic Scream on a single target, or use psychic overload to hit a bunch of nearby units grouped together (which can't be denied). You then have T7 4++ monster right on top of the enemy spreading Shadow in the Warp. It's a bit of a kamikaze unit, but I think it can be the new distraction carnifex.
Seems pretty good to me.
Even just running it up the table seems reasonable as target saturation. If its eating lascannons other stuff isn't.
The Maleceptor got a slight 12pt reduction, can use 2 powers per turn (still with the +1 psychic test bonus), and it's psychic overload ability now does 3 mortal wounds on a roll of 6. Most importantly, its invuln save increased to 4++ like a Hive Tyrant.
Something I had considered is to drop it via pod then use Metabolic Movement strat to get it in the perfect position to inflict a ton of mortal wounds. You can either cast both Smite and Psychic Scream on a single target, or use psychic overload to hit a bunch of nearby units grouped together (which can't be denied). You then have T7 4++ monster right on top of the enemy spreading Shadow in the Warp. It's a bit of a kamikaze unit, but I think it can be the new distraction carnifex.
Seems pretty good to me.
Even just running it up the table seems reasonable as target saturation. If its eating lascannons other stuff isn't.
Bah. Sorry for getting my bugs mixed up.
Maleceptors could be pretty interesting. They provide near potentially a lot of mortal wounds. That said I’m not sure how often it will be better to do their nova rather than casting smite and a second power.
Mandragola wrote: Maleceptors could be pretty interesting. They provide near potentially a lot of mortal wounds. That said I’m not sure how often it will be better to do their nova rather than casting smite and a second power.
Their nova can't be denied, because its no psychic power as such. Anyway, smite and psychic scream in combination could be more devastating, depending on the situation.
All I know he brought in great excitement for The Tyranid Hive. If anything even false, we are having a good time discussing. After all that is what these forums are for right? Discussing? If true, great. If not true, no damage done. Brining in fun and excitement? Win!
Horvigon?
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