jake wrote: Frozen Ocean wasn't saying that feminists don't exist. He was saying that these "scary feminists" that so many people here are afraid will ruin everything aren't actually showing their heads here at all. But that hasn't stopped dozens and dozens of people from complaining about them for page after page as if they're about to show up with pitchforks.
They certainly don't exist here, as far as I've ever seen. That's probably for the best.
jake wrote: But you knew that already. You just like being a troll
Nonsense. Trolls do things just to get a reaction out of people. I posted what I posted more to amuse myself.
jake wrote: What I do see here is a lot of people saying "It would be nice if some of the more sexualized elements and semi-questionable elements of the range were toned down a bit while keeping the core themes and established style of the army." Which is a pretty reasonable position. And there are a lot of people here who are reasonably agreeing or disagreeing with that, which is fine. reasonable discussion is good. But theres also a lot of people here who are having kind of a tantrum over just the idea being discussed, and even more people who are acting like there's some kind of feminist gestapo that is going to burst down Games Workshop's doors and force them to make something that no one wants. Frankly, the amount of "Oh no, SJWs/feminists/tumbr is out to get us" comments here is kind of embarrassing.
TBH I've never really seen anything in the Sisters line as sexualised. You could, maybe, argue that the Repentia have been done in that way but I don't think the miniatures themselves have enough detail to come across as 'sexy' (and as we've seen, the artwork sure as feth ain't sexualised... yikes... thems girlz is scary!). I mean, it's not as if the Sisters line even remotely resembles that execrable "Terminator armour with ma tits hangin' out!" line of minis that Prodos makes. They're embarrassing.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Well if you mean a vast conspiracy to make “boy”s things” unfun, then no they don’t.
Well, not here at least. But there are plenty of groups out there that always want to ruin it for the rest of us because they personally don't like it, even if they have no interest in it. Just look at the history of rock and roll, or movies, or video games. It's not specific to feminist groups, but those types of "No Fun Allowed!" people are out there.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Combat heels and boob plate are legitimate concerns—in a game that purports to be realistic. Luckily we are talking about 40K, so...
Oh, right, so the MRAs exist, but the crazy feminists don't? Uh huh.
Chairman Aeon wrote: ... miss is the context of most of 40K, which was that it was model driven and a lot of late 80s and early 90s model design was personal and not within the context of the 40K narrative. Sisters exist because Jes Goodwin was a goth and drew that aesthetic to a singular space nun picture in Rogue Trader. In fact even that link is tenuous. But bottom line is Jes makes a small force of figures in homage to Souxsie Souix and then someone had to figure out a place for them in 40K.
Well 40K didn't have much of a context at its start. Marines weren't really even Marines back then. 40K only became 'rationalised' (and I use that expression in the sense that they sat down and decided to codify and organise everything) when 2nd Ed came along, and it's been a long process of chopping and changing ever since. There's still room for that old design philosophy, especially in the newer things or old concepts reimagined (like the recent Necromunda gangs), but there are a lot of things in 40K these days that are nailed down as "The Immutable Truth".
Chairman Aeon wrote: The design interviews show that to this day the sculptor has lots of leeway on the interpretation of “Puritan inquisitor”.
I think that's a good thing. It's how even when there are Primaris Marines up the wazoo all boring us to tears we can still get awesome looking minis like this which may not be exactly the mini I really want, but is close enough.
Anyone using the term "SJW" is basically waving a big red flag warning people not to take them seriously. The only reason to use that term is to conjure up a scary feminist straw man so you can signal others to participate in your safe space groupthink where anyone even attempting to problematize sexualization is branded "SJW" and marginalized.
Of course this happens on both sides, as I experienced when I dared criticize the hostile and frankly gross tone of discussion used on the "Feminist 40k" Facebook page. I quickly left that group after that incident.
In any case I sincerely doubt either of those extremes would be allowed to influence GWs direction in any way. The one time GW responded to the feminist 40k page to ensure they were working towards diversification, they did so in a measured and completely reasonable fashion. And I think we can safely say that Celestine and her Gemini represent the direction GW is taking Sisters. Boob armor and metal corsets aren't going anywhere.
What I do see here is a lot of people saying "It would be nice if some of the more sexualized elements and semi-questionable elements of the range were toned down a bit while keeping the core themes and established style of the army." Which is a pretty reasonable position. And there are a lot of people here who are reasonably agreeing or disagreeing with that, which is fine. reasonable discussion is good. But theres also a lot of people here who are having kind of a tantrum over just the idea being discussed, and even more people who are acting like there's some kind of feminist gestapo that is going to burst down Games Workshop's doors and force them to make something that no one wants. Frankly, the amount of "Oh no, SJWs/feminists/tumbr is out to get us" comments here is kind of embarrassing.
And on purpose. It was a creative decision made in the early days of BL to have BL (or even every BL writer's own mini-40K) basically be a "variant Universe"/Ultimate 40K/whatever to have creative freedom.
I really wish this piece of information was stickied with giant flaming letters on top of the Background section of this forum...
Zingraff wrote: I don't expect them to pay much attention to vocal proponents of flat boots and "practical" armour,
All Sisters models except a very recent one had flat boots, flat boots are part of their design since the very start, I hate it when people like you want to change established things for political reasons lo .
Good point!
I'm happy as long as they keep the bob haircuts! I will not buy them if they remake them without bob cuts. That's really all that matters to me.
Sqorgar wrote: I don't know if you've been paying attention to what has been happening in Magic: The Gathering, pen and paper rpgs, video games, comic books, young adult fiction, science fiction awards, open source software development, search engine interoffice email suggestions, or whatever else, but nerds are being treated like nerds again.
You are such a tearjerker really!
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And apparently I'm not a nerd anymore? I guess that's what happens when one get political opinions that Sqorgar disagree with. They lose their nerd card, and have to forfeit their nerd credentials. Being a computer dev with a PhD in theoretical computer science working in a company targeted toward gamers and created by someone who has a profile on Liquidpedia as a Starcraft 2 semi-pro player isn't enough, neither is playing wargames since middle school, more than 15 years ago. Nope.
Can't wait for the mods to do their job already and tell whiners like you to take their whining to a thread in General where it gets locked when it inevitably devolves into name-calling because that's all you and your ilk seem capable of. Call it something like "The feminazi are putting nerds in concentration camp again!!! Nerds are the true oppressed victims all others are just whiners!" or something like this so normal people know to avoid it.
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Zingraff wrote: I'm happy as long as they keep the bob haircuts! I will not buy them if they remake them without bob cuts. That's really all that matters to me.
Honestly that's the one thing about the Sisters esthetic that I can see them change. I mean, the first model that broke the bob haircut rule isn't exactly recent, it came out in 2003 :
However, I am almost sure that they will keep some bobcut options in the box, so you can keep your army bobcut only, hopefully!
Sqorgar wrote: I don't know if you've been paying attention to what has been happening in Magic: The Gathering, pen and paper rpgs, video games, comic books, young adult fiction, science fiction awards, open source software development, search engine interoffice email suggestions, or whatever else, but nerds are being treated like nerds again.
You are such a tearjerker really!
...
...
...
And apparently I'm not a nerd anymore? I guess that's what happens when one get political opinions that Sqorgar disagree with. They lose their nerd card, and have to forfeit their nerd credentials. Being a computer dev with a PhD in theoretical computer science working in a company targeted toward gamers and created by someone who has a profile on Liquidpedia as a Starcraft 2 semi-pro player isn't enough, neither is playing wargames since middle school, more than 15 years ago. Nope.
Can't wait for the mods to do their job already and tell whiners like you to take their whining to a thread in General where it gets locked when it inevitably devolves into name-calling because that's all you and your ilk seem capable of. Call it something like "The feminazi are putting nerds in concentration camp again!!! Nerds are the true oppressed victims all others are just whiners!" or something like this so normal people know to avoid it.
Well thanks for showing us that both sides can be equally good tearjerkers
It's amazing how predictably any SOB discussion always degenerates to this level
I honestly hate wargamers sometimes, this thread shows exactly why we can't have nice things. And this is just a "hey, maybe soon yeah?" thread, whats it going to be like when they're released and they happen to not be what everyone "expected/wanted/better than the trolls wanted but they still want to REEEEE at something"
There won't be radical changes in SoB design, but nevertheless, guys, what would be so bad about a slight change of, for example, the boob-cup-rockets to a monoplate as seen for example with the female stormcasts?! Would solve some issuse, that boile down to "oversexulising" as well as giving the range more "realism" the devided boob-plate is risk for your sternum ;-).
ulgurstasta wrote: Well thanks for showing us that both sides can be equally good tearjerkers
I'm not tearjerking. I'm annoyed by reading the same old bs, and pretty confident that GW will release something very close to the new Celestine aesthetic, which I am very satisfied with (even though there are points where I like the previous Celestine better, but none that are relevant to the general aesthetics, it's specific to that model). Overall I'm pretty hyped. I just wish Dakka mods did their job here.
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Bloodmaster wrote: There won't be radical changes in SoB design, but nevertheless, guys, what would be so bad about a slight change of, for example, the boob-cup-rockets to a monoplate as seen for example with the female stormcasts?! Would solve some issuse, that boile down to "oversexulising" as well as giving the range more "realism" the devided boob-plate is risk for your sternum ;-).
I don't think it's going to happen but I would have no problem with it happening, just want the monoplate to still be very very baroque and ornamented and over the top.
I'm fine with "monoplate" or whatever we choose to call it.
The SoB power armour is supposed to resemble clothing, and the cuirass specifically imitates a corset. And most corsets do not have separate, built-in breast cups like you see on the SoB cuirass.
Chikout wrote: The aesthetic of the new sisters is already pretty set is it not?
The new Celestine is very much in line with the style of the old sisters. I can't imagine that they will stray too far from that. I hope they keep the design of the helmets. It was one of my favourite things about the old range.
The only reason I haven't bought that model (Celestine) is I don't think I could do a very good job on the birds, and I think the birds kind of make the model :/
The more I see it though, the more I think I might try taking a swing at it, anyway.
Galas wrote: Guys this MadCowCrazy guy is the one that posted images of anatomic studies of Celestine saying she was fat, and called everyone a SJW (even HMBC!) when they told him that was nonsense.
4chan has allready consumed him. We can only pray for his soul.
Lol you gotta tell me where to read that, sounds hilarious
Frozen Ocean wrote: It's astounding to see such frothing at the mouth about these "SJWs" and "Feminists" who are supposedly ruining everything, yet aforementioned ruiners are nowhere to be seen. As usual. Because they don't exist.
Oh, the stereotypical SJW's are certainly out there--the internet is the home of people who don't understand you can make a good point in a bad way, and feminism has bad advocates, just like every other cause in existence. But their numbers and influence are wildly exaggerated, because people want to have a bogeyman that they can rail against to get a quick and easy rush of righteous outrage about how Those Scary People Somewhere Out There are going to ruin everything.
I think a point that always gets missed is that there's a distinction between "impressive" or "attractive" and "sexualised". It's theoretically possible to have female models that are baroque, stylised and / or aesthetically pleasing without inevitably needing to jump to "Hey, look at the boobs!".
Frozen Ocean wasn't saying that feminists don't exist. He was saying that these "scary feminists" that so many people here are afraid will ruin everything aren't actually showing their heads here at all. But that hasn't stopped dozens and dozens of people from complaining about them for page after page as if they're about to show up with pitchforks.
What I do see here is a lot of people saying "It would be nice if some of the more sexualized elements and semi-questionable elements of the range were toned down a bit while keeping the core themes and established style of the army." Which is a pretty reasonable position. And there are a lot of people here who are reasonably agreeing or disagreeing with that, which is fine. reasonable discussion is good. But theres also a lot of people here who are having kind of a tantrum over just the idea being discussed, and even more people who are acting like there's some kind of feminist gestapo that is going to burst down Games Workshop's doors and force them to make something that no one wants. Frankly, the amount of "Oh no, SJWs/feminists/tumbr is out to get us" comments here is kind of embarrassing.
Yes, thank you. I was trying to say that by far the most powerful whiners are the ones crying about these "feminist/SJW boogeymen". It's the exact same "feminists hate us and ruin everything" argument that always comes up, in massive force, whenever just about anything happens involving anything other than straight white men exclusively. Stuff like Tracer in Overwatch being a lesbian, or the Black Panther having black people in it (shocker), get the same GamerGatey reaction of "Tumblr is ruining everything!".
Well if you mean a vast conspiracy to make “boy”s things” unfun, then no they don’t.
Yes, thank you. Obviously they exist in the sense that they are a real thing in the world somewhere, so wording it as "a vast conspiracy" is a very good way to put it.
Crazyterran wrote: Dont the geminae still have the bobcuts? Not much to worry about there, either.
Hopefully all the plastic kits can have helmets, i hate warriors without helmets.
Seraphim actually don't get hand flamers - they're issued just as much hairspray as every other Sister, but use all of it to burn heretics instead of doing their hair. This is canon. Probably.
Crazyterran wrote: Dont the geminae still have the bobcuts? Not much to worry about there, either.
Hopefully all the plastic kits can have helmets, i hate warriors without helmets.
Yeah, nothing to worry about. The only bobless non-Repentia is Celestine. She's always been a rebel.
I demand modern standards. Enough helmeted and unhelmeted heads should be on the sprue so that you can pick whichever you like best. GW has been pretty good about this with some kits, like Reivers and Allarus. No reason to stop now.
Crazyterran wrote: Dont the geminae still have the bobcuts? Not much to worry about there, either.
Hopefully all the plastic kits can have helmets, i hate warriors without helmets.
Yeah, nothing to worry about. The only bobless non-Repentia is Celestine. She's always been a rebel.
I demand modern standards. Enough helmeted and unhelmeted heads should be on the sprue so that you can pick whichever you like best. GW has been pretty good about this with some kits, like Reivers and Allarus. No reason to stop now.
Is her hair not just a bob doing some spooky floating?
Crazyterran wrote: Dont the geminae still have the bobcuts? Not much to worry about there, either.
Hopefully all the plastic kits can have helmets, i hate warriors without helmets.
Yeah, nothing to worry about. The only bobless non-Repentia is Celestine. She's always been a rebel.
I demand modern standards. Enough helmeted and unhelmeted heads should be on the sprue so that you can pick whichever you like best. GW has been pretty good about this with some kits, like Reivers and Allarus. No reason to stop now.
Is her hair not just a bob doing some spooky floating?
I'm honestly not sure. Looking at plastic Celestine (let's just forget about the metals now that GW gave a statement of intent, ok? ), from several angles it looks like it. From others, it doesn't appear conventional. Like the length from the front. The twins have hair extending below the jaw. Celestine's isn't that long, and it's something that can't be accounted for by windiness or ethereal floatiness.
Maybe I'm just dreaming it up and seeing what I want to see, though? Don't know. I do know that unlike every other Sister in existence, with hair like that she is totally and unquestionably out of uniform.
The regular sisters will most likely still have bobcuts. Special characters naturally have more leeway, it’s a great way to distinguish them from the rank and file. While a regular sister would get a severe reprimand from her superior (and would have to endure penitence) if she let her hair grow beyond regulated length, no one is going to bother the living saint about it. She is too busy smiting heretics to care about such mundane matters.
No more discussion of "feminists" "SJWs" or any other OT topic, on either side, please!
We have an OT forum for just this reason. This thread is for discussing News & Rumors about plastic Sisters of Battle, and not any larger social issues, attitudes, etc.
So, please stay On Topic here to news about SoB from now on - thanks all!
Oguhmek wrote: The regular sisters will most likely still have bobcuts. Special characters naturally have more leeway, it’s a great way to distinguish them from the rank and file. While a regular sister would get a severe reprimand from her superior (and would have to endure penitence) if she let her hair grow beyond regulated length, no one is going to bother the living saint about it. She is too busy smiting heretics to care about such mundane matters.
I would have said she's too busy dying to the puniest attack to demonstrate her awesome ability to come back from the dead, but yeah, quite. Celestine is the perfect model to get her hair messed up because of her station.
Another cool one could be a Canoness with an undercut because she's heavily augmented. Or perhaps a veteran Sister, or the Superior of a Retributor squad who has a signum built into the metal half of her skull.
Heh, the things you could do with multi part plastic kits. Emperor willing.
Another cool one could be a Canoness with an undercut because she's heavily augmented. Or perhaps a veteran Sister, or the Superior of a Retributor squad who has a signum built into the metal half of her skull.
Heh, the things you could do with multi part plastic kits. Emperor willing.
This is something I'm hoping for. I'd love to have some options for some bionic implants.
I have never really liked the bobcuts, but I'm pretty sure that this is what we will be getting. But that's fine, I will be giving mine Statuesque Miniatures' bald heads anyway.
Yeah, I was personally never big on the bob cuts, at least not as something on every model. I hope the kits when they come include enough helmeted heads for everyone, enough bob cuts for everyone, and then maybe a few extra heads with different hairstyles/features for extra measure. I mean, if the 5 man box of Scions can have 17 heads in it, I would think a 10 pack of Sisters can squeeze in a decent number.
One other thing I wouldn't mind is the heads being somewhat compatible with the Scion, Cadian, or Genestealer Cult kits, to give some mix and matching fun. I know I bought something like 40 statuesque heads awhile back for that specific reason.
kurhanik wrote: Yeah, I was personally never big on the bob cuts, at least not as something on every model. I hope the kits when they come include enough helmeted heads for everyone, enough bob cuts for everyone, and then maybe a few extra heads with different hairstyles/features for extra measure. I mean, if the 5 man box of Scions can have 17 heads in it, I would think a 10 pack of Sisters can squeeze in a decent number.
One other thing I wouldn't mind is the heads being somewhat compatible with the Scion, Cadian, or Genestealer Cult kits, to give some mix and matching fun. I know I bought something like 40 statuesque heads awhile back for that specific reason.
The bob cut is absolutely iconic. I love it. I also love their sallet helmets. Having enough on the sprue to make full squads of both would be amazing.
Manchu wrote: The bob cut is absolutely iconic. I love it. I also love their sallet helmets. Having enough on the sprue to make full squads of both would be amazing.
Bloodmaster wrote: There won't be radical changes in SoB design, but nevertheless, guys, what would be so bad about a slight change of, for example, the boob-cup-rockets to a monoplate as seen for example with the female stormcasts?! Would solve some issuse, that boile down to "oversexulising" as well as giving the range more "realism" the devided boob-plate is risk for your sternum ;-).
OK, to illustrate why people have an issue with this particular thing, I'll ask a counter-question - should GW remove all the codpieces from Empire/Free Peoples models? They emphasise a physical sexual characteristic, and are useless ornamentation that may even be a hindrance in a "realistic" analysis. Because despite what some people keep asserting, "boob plates" in the Sisters' case has nothing to do with "sexualisation", over or otherwise, they are an aesthetic element with the same purpose as codpieces - associating warrior prowess with a gender stereotype.
Now obviously, from a "realistic" perspective that's silly and pointless, just as knights wandering around in full-plate armour with a big oversized metal willy sticking out the front of it was silly and pointless, but 40K isn't realistic, intentionally so, and the overtly female aesthetic design of Sisters has a specific intent that has nothing to do with making them objects of desire. Compromising that aesthetic thematically dilutes the faction not for any good reason, but to placate people who're either incapable of or unwilling to recognise that difference(note: I'm by no means saying you cannot personally prefer the appearance of a Stormcast-style monoplate, just that it's no more than that, a preference).
So yeah, what would be so bad about it? Probably nothing, I'm sure you could make some very nice looking female space warriors with gothic overtones in that style, there's just no actual reason to make the change, and it gets elevated to "bad" because people who like the present aesthetic get annoyed when others who don't understand(willfully or otherwise) the present aesthetic pretend their preference has some grand moral basis that makes them right.
Yodhrin wrote: there's just no actual reason to make the change, and it gets elevated to "bad" because people who like the present aesthetic get annoyed when others who don't understand(willfully or otherwise) the present aesthetic pretend their preference has some grand moral basis that makes them right.
That's very well put and I will just add that it's also irritating when people claim "I am a fan of X" but most of what they say about X is why X is badwrong and must be changed. This is the number one source of criticism of Sisters of Battle and of all the things for GW to ignore this is the type of thing GW should absolutely be ignoring.
I am afraid for my wallet.
I figured I was safe.
I am big on getting "fanatic" 40k groups like Black Templar, Inquisition.
It was originally to be a counterpoint to my CSM.
I looked at Sisters and thought it was getting old and pretty darn expensive.
Now they will come out in plastic and no other faction can quite keep up in the fanatical department.
As to the look of them, sure they take their devotion seriously so we may see something like the BT chains, but they also take their fighting really seriously.
Ornate but functional, metal bikini will not be in the design discussion one would hope.
I was just thinking if they do get some whips, I could call a SOB and BT team-up as "Whips and Chains!"... but I digress.
All I can say is for those who have "kept the faith" this long, I fear for GW, the expectations will be through the roof.
GW has been doing well lately, please oh please may they not feth this one up!
You can't compare Empire codpieces with SoB boobplate, that's a fallacy for the following reason:
Empire fashion has always been based on early 16th century fashion. The miniatures designed by the Perry twins in the '90s are particularly faithful to their historical sources.
Empire codpieces has nothing to do with emphasising "a physical sexual characteristic, and are useless ornamentation that may even be a hindrance in a "realistic" analysis"; Empire soldiers wear them for one reason only; because the miniatures emulates 16th century fashion, and they would be incomplete without the codpieces. If you remove the codpieces, you'd also have to abandon the slashed sleeves and the big, floppy hats.
Furthermore, codpieces did serve a practical purpose originally, as it covered the gap left between the two separate trouser legs, called hose, which were supported from a belt worn around the waist.
Sisters of Battle on the other hand, aren't closely based on one particular source, their armour has no particular, real life precedent. There's no question that boobplate is a sexualised design choice.
Yodhrin wrote: there's just no actual reason to make the change, and it gets elevated to "bad" because people who like the present aesthetic get annoyed when others who don't understand(willfully or otherwise) the present aesthetic pretend their preference has some grand moral basis that makes them right.
That's very well put and I will just add that it's also irritating when people claim "I am a fan of X" but most of what they say about X is why X is badwrong and must be changed. This is the number one source of criticism of Sisters of Battle and of all the things for GW to ignore this is the type of thing GW should absolutely be ignoring.
Agree on all points. Many of these comments involve high heels and gratuitous boob plate. Veridyan was the first Sister model wth heels, the Mistress of Repentance is the only Sister model with an oversized chest, the Canoness the only one with boob plate that comes to a point. I believe there is only the one repentia that actually has an exposed breast. The rest are all wearing as much if not more than wych elves.
Its highly possible scale creep will make the new models heads taller than the old ones. I get twitchy when it looks like I have 15mm models scattered amongst my 28mm models that are supposed to be the same race and relative size. It would definitely be a deal breaker for me, one way or the other and I don't see myself as likely to toss over what I already have to go completely with the new.
I'm more interested in the possibility of new units. GW could be aiming just to bring the existing units to the table but it doesn't seem likely. My biggest regret would be if they just toss in a bunch of like-marine units. Sister Terminators, Sisters on Bikes and light armor scout Sisters are three of the biggest offenders IMO. They need to be different, but still fit within the existing aesthetic and theme of the army.
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Zingraff wrote: Sisters of Battle on the other hand, aren't closely based on one particular source, their armour has no particular, real life precedent. There's no question that boobplate is a sexualised design choice.
Which has everything to do with demonstrating adherence to the Decree Passive and nothing to do with making the Sororitas seem like pin up girls. Most of the models have the girls clutching a godwyn-deaz to their chest which covers easily 50% of the boobplate. There is no exposed cleavage, no super model posing or duck lips. The boob plate allows them to easily demonstrate they are of the female persuasion in compliance with the Decree Passive, not to objectify them as sex objects.
I don't really have strong feelings on the bob haircuts. I mean, they are clearly an iconic element of Sisters, but I usually try to avoid non-helmeted heads on my minis as much as possible as a default setting, and when the Sisters have amazing and easy-to-paint helmets, then it's really not even a question for me.
Assuming the sprues supported it, I'd go 100% helmeted except for characters.
So far as boobplate vs monoplate, similarly non-fussed. I can't imagine GWS is going to do anything wildly differently than they did with the Seraphim that came with Celestine, and those looked amazing. So long as there is that classic tabard\corset\high collar silhouette I'm not sure it even really matters what the exact top 1/3rd of the chest armor looks like. I'm sure they'll do a great job.
Zingraff wrote: You can't compare Empire codpieces with SoB boobplate, that's a fallacy for the following reason:
Empire fashion has always been based on early 16th century fashion. The miniatures designed by the Perry twins in the '90s are particularly faithful to their historical sources.
Empire codpieces has nothing to do with emphasising "a physical sexual characteristic, and are useless ornamentation that may even be a hindrance in a "realistic" analysis"; Empire soldiers wear them for one reason only; because the miniatures emulates 16th century fashion, and they would be incomplete without the codpieces. If you remove the codpieces, you'd also have to abandon the slashed sleeves and the big, floppy hats.
Err, and for what reason were codpieces part of 16th century fashion again? Oh yes, to emphasise a physical sexual characteristic, particularly in the context of martial prowess.
Furthermore, codpieces did serve a practical purpose originally, as it covered the gap left between the two separate trouser legs, called hose, which were supported from a belt worn around the waist.
As would a breastplate, later evolving in purpose to have more than just a practical use.
Sisters of Battle on the other hand, aren't closely based on one particular source, their armour has no particular, real life precedent. There's no question that boobplate is a sexualised design choice.
Utter, unmitigated, unabashed, undiluted nonsense on toast. If everything in sci-fantasy fiction had to have a real life precedent, there wouldn't be any such thing as sci-fantasy fiction.
Let me see if I can break this down for you.
Codpieces originally had only a practical purpose. That purpose was supplemented over time with additional aesthetic embellishments with specific thematic intent, ie emphasising the in that time presumed link between overt masculinity and martial prowess.
Breastplates originally had only a practical purpose. That purpose was supplemented over time with additional aesthetic embellishments with specific thematic intent, ie emphasising the femininity of the wearer in a martial context to demonstrate compliance with the Decree Passive.
The fact that the latter reasoning is fictional(I mean, you could argue the reasoning in the first case is "fictional" as well, people just actually believed otherwise at one time) does not negate the fact that reasoning exists, and said reasoning has nothing to do with titillation.
Intent matters, context matters, there are distinctions and nuances in art and fiction that go beyond your simplistic "it has bewbs, therefore ebil" nonsense - life drawing and cam shows both have nudey people in them, does that mean life drawing is pornography(which is not to imply there's anything wrong with that providing everyone involved is a consenting adult)? Of course not, because the intent and the context are completely different.
notprop wrote: So do you fellers think you can keep this up until 2019....?
Assuming you can I’m thinking of starting a book, either how many pages or how many locks until release.
All proceeds going to deprived Ork players.
I feel for you Ork players. Hopefully you will get yours before SoB do, considering that GW is just now picking us up.
Though I think you have missed the point that SoB players have been defending their aesthetic from OMG Bewbplate needs to go for almost as long as there have been SoB. So yeah, you bet.
Oh yeah, there are plenty of great options for 3rd party women. Most of them look better than the actual models, lol. If I played Guard I would definitely get my army from Victoria Miniatures.
I do hope whatever kits come out have enough helmeted heads to do a whole squad. Not saying I don't like the iconic haircut that Sisters have, but the helmets do look awesome. I also want Celestians to be somewhat heavier looking, almost as if their Power Armour is reinforced in some way. Far more ornate and 'meaner' looking helmets. Really set them apart from regular Sisters beyond "They just have more special weapons and a better stat line". Make them visually stand out.
Galas wrote: Guys this MadCowCrazy guy is the one that posted images of anatomic studies of Celestine saying she was fat, and called everyone a SJW (even HMBC!) when they told him that was nonsense.
I am loathe to drag up even that topic, but how could anyone in their right mind call those miniatures 'fat'? I mean... I just cannot compute that!
Same here - tbh I think the Sisters of Battle have the best (ie most appealing) helmets in the entirety of 40k. It'll be really hard for me to assemble models with the iconic bob cut or whatever other heads they include.
Talizvar wrote: I am afraid for my wallet.
I figured I was safe.
I am big on getting "fanatic" 40k groups like Black Templar, Inquisition.
It was originally to be a counterpoint to my CSM.
I looked at Sisters and thought it was getting old and pretty darn expensive.
Now they will come out in plastic and no other faction can quite keep up in the fanatical department.
As to the look of them, sure they take their devotion seriously so we may see something like the BT chains, but they also take their fighting really seriously.
Ornate but functional, metal bikini will not be in the design discussion one would hope.
I was just thinking if they do get some whips, I could call a SOB and BT team-up as "Whips and Chains!"... but I digress.
All I can say is for those who have "kept the faith" this long, I fear for GW, the expectations will be through the roof.
GW has been doing well lately, please oh please may they not feth this one up!
I feel your pain. As soon as I saw the announcement I thought about a BT/SoB/Inq Crusade force
Yodhrin wrote: Err, and for what reason were codpieces part of 16th century fashion again? Oh yes, to emphasise a physical sexual characteristic, particularly in the context of martial prowess.
And yet, not really!
Everyone wore codpieces at some point, there's nothing particularly martial about them. Just look at Brueghel's paintings, every adult male is shown wearing one. Empire soldiers are usually shown wearing 1500-1525 period clothing, and at that point codpieces were still a fundamentally functional garment with a practical purpose. I will not dispute that later codpieces were worn and designed to exaggerate the crotch, but early 16th century codpieces do not appear to have been worn for that purpose. They were simply an attached flap that closed your trousers.
Yodhrin wrote: Codpieces originally had only a practical purpose. That purpose was supplemented over time with additional aesthetic embellishments with specific thematic intent, ie emphasising the in that time presumed link between overt masculinity and martial prowess.
And why is this relevant? As far as I can tell, Empire fashion imitates early 16th century fashion, not the fashion from the latter half of the 16th century. It's not relevant what codpieces eventually would develop into, before they were abandoned entirely.
Yodhrin wrote: Intent matters, context matters, there are distinctions and nuances in art and fiction that go beyond your simplistic "it has bewbs, therefore ebil" nonsense - life drawing and cam shows both have nudey people in them, does that mean life drawing is pornography(which is not to imply there's anything wrong with that providing everyone involved is a consenting adult)? Of course not, because the intent and the context are completely different.
Harsh words!
At which point did I write "it has bewbs, therefore ebil" ? Why are you making these frankly bizarre and malicious accusations at me? Why are you assuming you have a better understanding of art and art history than me? I'm not some inbred puritan. I will have you know, I have a degree from a prestigious art academy, I've seen plenty of nude women.
I don't mind boob-armour, I just find it silly and unnecessary.
Your analysis had one fundamental fallacy that I've attempted to dispute, and that's about it.
Yodhrin wrote: Err, and for what reason were codpieces part of 16th century fashion again? Oh yes, to emphasise a physical sexual characteristic, particularly in the context of martial prowess.
And yet, not really!
Everyone wore codpieces at some point, there's nothing particularly martial about them. Just look at Brueghel's paintings, every adult male is shown wearing one. Empire soldiers are usually shown wearing 1500-1525 period clothing, and at that point codpieces were still a fundamentally functional garment with a practical purpose. I will not dispute that later codpieces were worn and designed to exaggerate the crotch, but early 16th century codpieces do not appear to have been worn for that purpose. They were simply an attached flap that closed your trousers.
Yodhrin wrote: Codpieces originally had only a practical purpose. That purpose was supplemented over time with additional aesthetic embellishments with specific thematic intent, ie emphasising the in that time presumed link between overt masculinity and martial prowess.
And why is this relevant? As far as I can tell, Empire fashion imitates early 16th century fashion, not the fashion from the latter half of the 16th century. It's not relevant what codpieces eventually would develop into, before they were abandoned entirely.
Yodhrin wrote: Intent matters, context matters, there are distinctions and nuances in art and fiction that go beyond your simplistic "it has bewbs, therefore ebil" nonsense - life drawing and cam shows both have nudey people in them, does that mean life drawing is pornography(which is not to imply there's anything wrong with that providing everyone involved is a consenting adult)? Of course not, because the intent and the context are completely different.
Harsh words!
At which point did I write "it has bewbs, therefore ebil" ? Why are you making these frankly bizarre and malicious accusations at me? Why are you assuming you have a better understanding of art and art history than me? I'm not some inbred puritan. I will have you know, I have a degree from a prestigious art academy, I've seen plenty of nude women.
I don't mind boob-armour, I just find it silly and unnecessary.
Your analysis had one fundamental fallacy that I've attempted to dispute, and that's about it.
I generally try to steer clear of this because it usually descends to nonsense pretty quickly, but...
If codpieces evolved to exaggerate masculinity in real life, then why is it silly for a fictional universe to have an imagined evolution for power armour to exaggerate femininity? Especially for an all female order.
I would agree if they were like those silly prodos one's that had half the armour missing just to look "sexy", but the armour just has gothic decoration.
Melissia wrote: For once, I agree with part of HBMC's post-- I love the Sisters of Battle helmets, they are extremely pleasing visually.
The Sabbat-pattern helmets are a really nice piece of design.
And yes, enough heads in the box to allow fully helmeted (or fullt bob-cut) would be a nice touch - heads are useful for filling empty space on sprues, after all.
Melissia wrote: For once, I agree with part of HBMC's post-- I love the Sisters of Battle helmets, they are extremely pleasing visually.
The Sabbat-pattern helmets are a really nice piece of design.
And yes, enough heads in the box to allow fully helmeted (or fullt bob-cut) would be a nice touch - heads are useful for filling empty space on sprues, after all.
Indeed, it would be a GREAT touch! I hate it for some reason, when part of the squad has helmets and the other doesn`t... Sabbat-pattern helmets are probably my favourite in the whole 40k. I`d put them on my gene-cults if I could. Karskin, mk 4 and mk 6 are close second in the list of awesome
I really like the traditional Sisters haircut. I see it as part of their uniform, to the point where its probably mandatory and a fair number of sisters who are scared, balding or otherwise don't have hair probably wear wigs. It seems like a core part of their identity to me. The helmets are cool too and I hope there are plenty of them, but I'll be disappointed if every Sisters box doesn't come with enough bare heads to do a full squad.
Although what I'd really like to see a few gas mask sisters in each set.
Talizvar wrote: I am afraid for my wallet.
I figured I was safe.
I am big on getting "fanatic" 40k groups like Black Templar, Inquisition.
It was originally to be a counterpoint to my CSM.
I looked at Sisters and thought it was getting old and pretty darn expensive.
Now they will come out in plastic and no other faction can quite keep up in the fanatical department.
As to the look of them, sure they take their devotion seriously so we may see something like the BT chains, but they also take their fighting really seriously.
Ornate but functional, metal bikini will not be in the design discussion one would hope.
I was just thinking if they do get some whips, I could call a SOB and BT team-up as "Whips and Chains!"... but I digress.
All I can say is for those who have "kept the faith" this long, I fear for GW, the expectations will be through the roof.
GW has been doing well lately, please oh please may they not feth this one up!
I feel your pain. As soon as I saw the announcement I thought about a BT/SoB/Inq Crusade force
The one true crusade!!
I just can't believe it's happening. Nothing but happiness. Always wanted a force of the most zealous and fanatical guys and gals in the galaxy. All must yield or be destroyed before our righteous wrath!
Arachnofiend wrote: I feel like the Escher heads would look reaaaaally weird on Cadian bodies... It's a completely different aesthetic.
Um, not really:
Spoiler:
I stand corrected! That's a great piece of art.
Nothing in this picture feel 40k, she looks like a colonial marine from Aliens more than anything else
Well Cadians do look like them a bit.. Minus poker cards.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jake wrote: I really like the traditional Sisters haircut. I see it as part of their uniform, to the point where its probably mandatory and a fair number of sisters who are scared, balding or otherwise don't have hair probably wear wigs. It seems like a core part of their identity to me. The helmets are cool too and I hope there are plenty of them, but I'll be disappointed if every Sisters box doesn't come with enough bare heads to do a full squad.
Although what I'd really like to see a few gas mask sisters in each set.
Do gas mask sisters have any specific role? I thought flamers were assigned alongside this type of helm
I just can't believe it's happening. Nothing but happiness. Always wanted a force of the most zealous and fanatical guys and gals in the galaxy. All must yield or be destroyed before our righteous wrath!
It will be interesting to see if GW release any special rules/traits for the individual SoB Orders.
jake wrote: Yeah, the old flamer models all had them. I just really want them to return. I'd hate to see them left out just because helmets became more prevalent.
I'd like to think that they will keep the rebreather masks. After all, many of the resent SM kits till have them.
Escher would be great for Guard conversions for a more punk aesthetic, except...
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Except for the fact that the Cadian bodies are some of the blockiest, worst examples of heroic scale and the Escher heads are tiny.
Which is why I said earlier that I'm glad that Sisters took so long, meaning we're getting them now, when GW has figured out what humans look like.
I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB. To me it sounds like SoB are going to get a ground up redesign if they are going to let us see the design process over the course of the year. That means to me that SoB will likely be designed to appeal to the largest group of consumers not those that have been holding on for the last 15 years.
So I would expect some new stuff out of this to include some new designs and I wouldn't expect the SoB to look like Celestine to be honest because Celestine is pre-primaris 40k and pre-8th edition. I don't expect updates to any faction in the coming years to resemble their old faction designs.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB. To me it sounds like SoB are going to get a ground up redesign if they are going to let us see the design process over the course of the year. That means to me that SoB will likely be designed to appeal to the largest group of consumers not those that have been holding on for the last 15 years.
So I would expect some new stuff out of this to include some new designs and I wouldn't expect the SoB to look like Celestine to be honest because Celestine is pre-primaris 40k and pre-8th edition. I don't expect updates to any faction in the coming years to resemble their old faction designs.
Celestine was like 6 months before Primaris. They would have been designed near the same time. They’d have known the plans for Primaris when she was designed, so the design won’t suddenly change post-Primaris.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB. To me it sounds like SoB are going to get a ground up redesign if they are going to let us see the design process over the course of the year. That means to me that SoB will likely be designed to appeal to the largest group of consumers not those that have been holding on for the last 15 years.
So I would expect some new stuff out of this to include some new designs and I wouldn't expect the SoB to look like Celestine to be honest because Celestine is pre-primaris 40k and pre-8th edition. I don't expect updates to any faction in the coming years to resemble their old faction designs.
Ahh the old nonsense about there only being aa few people interested in Sisters again? Despite GW confirming that was THE most asked quesiton on their poll, plus polls like this one: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751091.page
It seems logical to expect them to follow the St Celestine and the Twins design.
I don't have the books to confirm it, but IIRC it was Our Martyred Lady.
I could be wrong, though, and that they just took another round of massive crippling casualties (which is something that happens to them a lot anyway).
I don't have the books to confirm it, but IIRC it was Our Martyred Lady.
I could be wrong, though, and that they just took another round of massive crippling casualties (which is something that happens to them a lot anyway).
Hmm I know some of the Order fought on Cadia but escaped and some were killed on the voyage to Terra with RG, but not seen anything to say they were wiped out - might be one of the novels or codexes I don;t have though as I no longer get everything.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB.
Whilst that is inevitable, and has already been demonstrated within the first few pages of this thread, I really don't think GW is going to abandon the core aesthetic of the Sisters of Battle.
This is just what Sisters look like to everyone here, and to all the 40K players out there. Everything in that picture is intrinsic to what makes Sisters Sisters. To remove that in favour of a complete redesign would seem foolish to me.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB.
Whilst that is inevitable, and has already been demonstrated within the first few pages of this thread, I really don't think GW is going to abandon the core aesthetic of the Sisters of Battle.
This is just what Sisters look like to everyone here, and to all the 40K players out there. Everything in that picture is intrinsic to what makes Sisters Sisters. To remove that in favour of a complete redesign would seem foolish to me.
I see core elements staying but just like Primaris are space marines but also not space marines I see SoB breaking from being just nuns with guns or "not space marines" space marines. Guns might look different or power armor could get changed a little. I just don't see them porting the current SoB into plastic with some better detailed faces.
I see it also happening in their rule designs such as having an 4+ save and be closer to Tempestus. I see some units not making it into 8th edition, like the chainsword ladies.
I think GW will eventually redesign all of it's factions in the way they have with AoS. I personally think Primaris we're just a small step, Death Guard another and I think SoB will be the first big one as they are changing their medium.
Just my opinion right now, of course.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised by a PA super sister in the new book.
But Primaris are a different thing in the fluff. Whilst I may personally believe that they are the first step to ditching the entire existing Marine line and starting over we have no proof of that beyond conspiracy theories and educated guesses.
So, for now at least, the Primaris are a different thing. A new thing. Something that goes alongside the existing Marines.
What you're theorising is the wholesale removal of all existing Sisters imagery and its replacement with something else. I cannot see them doing that, especially not after Celestine & Friends.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB.
Whilst that is inevitable, and has already been demonstrated within the first few pages of this thread, I really don't think GW is going to abandon the core aesthetic of the Sisters of Battle.
This is just what Sisters look like to everyone here, and to all the 40K players out there. Everything in that picture is intrinsic to what makes Sisters Sisters. To remove that in favour of a complete redesign would seem foolish to me.
I see core elements staying but just like Primaris are space marines but also not space marines I see SoB breaking from being just nuns with guns or "not space marines" space marines. Guns might look different or power armor could get changed a little. I just don't see them porting the current SoB into plastic with some better detailed faces.
I see it also happening in their rule designs such as having an 4+ save and be closer to Tempestus. I see some units not making it into 8th edition, like the chainsword ladies.
I think GW will eventually redesign all of it's factions in the way they have with AoS. I personally think Primaris we're just a small step, Death Guard another and I think SoB will be the first big one as they are changing their medium.
Just my opinion right now, of course.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised by a PA super sister in the new book.
Unfortunately your opinion is already very much in doubt due to the release of Celestine and the Geminae not too long ago. All of which were pretty much clones of the existing sister look. They're not going to invalidate recently released plastics by redoing the range they originated from with a significantly different look.
BrotherGecko wrote: I see core elements staying but just like Primaris are space marines but also not space marines I see SoB breaking from being just nuns with guns or "not space marines" space marines. Guns might look different or power armor could get changed a little. I just don't see them porting the current SoB into plastic with some better detailed faces.
I see it also happening in their rule designs such as having an 4+ save and be closer to Tempestus. I see some units not making it into 8th edition, like the chainsword ladies.
I think GW will eventually redesign all of it's factions in the way they have with AoS. I personally think Primaris we're just a small step, Death Guard another and I think SoB will be the first big one as they are changing their medium.
Just my opinion right now, of course.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised by a PA super sister in the new book.
Well, no offense intended but I would be extremely surprised if they did any of this. And I don't feel like Death Guard is very different from what came before…
BrotherGecko wrote: I see core elements staying but just like Primaris are space marines but also not space marines I see SoB breaking from being just nuns with guns or "not space marines" space marines. Guns might look different or power armor could get changed a little. I just don't see them porting the current SoB into plastic with some better detailed faces.
I see it also happening in their rule designs such as having an 4+ save and be closer to Tempestus. I see some units not making it into 8th edition, like the chainsword ladies.
I think GW will eventually redesign all of it's factions in the way they have with AoS. I personally think Primaris we're just a small step, Death Guard another and I think SoB will be the first big one as they are changing their medium.
Just my opinion right now, of course.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised by a PA super sister in the new book.
Well, no offense intended but I would be extremely surprised if they did any of this. And I don't feel like Death Guard is very different from what came before…
The fact that Death Guard even exists as a separate codex and does so with larger models, new weapons, units and a stronger call back to HH era armor I would say is fairly different than a few throw away models in a single codex entry of another army.
SoB have had throwaway codexes up until now so I think it's likely they will be reevaluated coming into 8th edition. Primaris are still space marines and Death Guard are still plague marines but the redesign is still present. I just can not see them, given all their ability now, just turn the old SoB plastic and call it a day. 40k plot has advanced in 8th and I personally think if SoB are being brought into 8th that it will and should reflect that.
But I admit if people are vocal enough that SoB will probably refect the changes of Celestine and Co. that came with better technology and that SoB will mostly be a transformation into plastic more than anything.
The SoB asthetic will be what Celestine/Gem are. They will carry their classic style, but with better face/hair sculpts, slight change to paldrons, and modern (relative) bolters. I would not expect a huge change to models they put out 6 months ago...even if they're a year out. Celestine's armor is perfect in proportions.
-Seraphim will get the new packs,
-Retributors will get an overhaul to make them a bit more "heavy weapons" look.
-Celestians will likely have different helm option than the std spru
-Old excorcist will be killed off. May retain some of the grimdark organ theme, but I suspect it will be streamlined to be more like the current tanks
-Immoloator will get some basic updates, but still a rhino
-Repentias will be redone completely. I'm guessing more akin to sisters of silence in terms of stance/look, but with AoSDoK clothing style
-There *will* be a flier. GW loves fliers..I love fliers. It's going to happen.
-New HQ options will be needed. We have only 1 real named character, Ver doesn't count since she's no different than a canonness and was technically limited
BrotherGecko wrote: The fact that Death Guard even exists as a separate codex and does so with larger models, new weapons, units and a stronger call back to HH era armor I would say is fairly different than a few throw away models in a single codex entry of another army.
Yeah but it's basically the same design, just with more models, and better details thanks to technical advancement. It's the same as Celestine being made with better tech, but still using the same design, for Sisters of Battle. I expect something similar for Sisters, i.e. something in the direct continuity to what came before but with more models, and using the latest technology, maybe with a tiny bit of scale creep.
Which is entirely different from having Sisters with a 4+ save, losing specific units, being a wholly new army with a new look (like Primaris Marine), and being redesigned the way factions are being redesigned in Age of Sigmar.
Factions are being designed in AOS because they blew up the god darn freaking setting. [Insert furious unhappy nerd rage here.]
However, setting aside my massive discontent with certain of GW's desisions, the redesign is _required_ because those models now exist in an entirely different and almost entirely unrelated setting for an entirely different game and game system.
Mercifully [?] Warhammer 40k is the same setting, and in many ways the same system. The same level of redesign isn't needed.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I can't imagine GW abandoning the core imagery of the Sisters to appease the Tumblr/Twitter crowd.
With how loud some of "those who must not be named" people and groups can be, my fears is that GW tries to appease them by changing the SoB into something that they are not. It all starts with one very slight minor change and then just like chaos it infects and mutates from there and becomes a chaos spawn abomination.
If i'm not wrong if GW sticks to the classic aesthetic of the SoB that could realistically please the most people.
In general when 40k players think sisters of battle, that image right there is among the first things that they think of. If GW doesn't stray to far from that general aesthetic and add in some flavor and variety in the small details, bling and armor decoration that is seen in the SM, BA, and SW tactical kits. I will be satisfied and most likely it would probably satisfy the majority of players wanting plastic sisters of battle.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB.
Whilst that is inevitable, and has already been demonstrated within the first few pages of this thread, I really don't think GW is going to abandon the core aesthetic of the Sisters of Battle.
This is just what Sisters look like to everyone here, and to all the 40K players out there. Everything in that picture is intrinsic to what makes Sisters Sisters. To remove that in favour of a complete redesign would seem foolish to me.
I see core elements staying but just like Primaris are space marines but also not space marines I see SoB breaking from being just nuns with guns or "not space marines" space marines. Guns might look different or power armor could get changed a little. I just don't see them porting the current SoB into plastic with some better detailed faces.
I see it also happening in their rule designs such as having an 4+ save and be closer to Tempestus. I see some units not making it into 8th edition, like the chainsword ladies.
I think GW will eventually redesign all of it's factions in the way they have with AoS. I personally think Primaris we're just a small step, Death Guard another and I think SoB will be the first big one as they are changing their medium.
Just my opinion right now, of course.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised by a PA super sister in the new book.
If any of these things happen it would be a travesty.
Why would they want to make them closer to tempestus? That doesn't make any more sense than making them more like space marines does. And SoB only have like 6 units, we can't really afford to lose any.
Why wouldn't they continue 'Nuns with guns'? That aesthetic is a big part of why not only the line, but the models have survived this long.
Primaris and Deathguard look like space marines and deathguard, there's such a minor difference it's hard to tell an intercessor from a tactical even at arms length.
I gotta say, your suggestions here are pretty nonsensical. It's a half step short of something like 'I really think Orkz should be more svelt and have ornate, sleek armor in the future. The big brutish thing is so played out!' It's a level of silly that doesn't make much sense.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: These will be the most expensive plastic miniatures, mark my words.
Oh I had the same thoughts some time ago, that if they ever did do plastic SoB they would be the most expensive modern GW range. They will take advantage of the thirsty sob fans mark my words, 60-70 bucks for a 10 person battle sister squad at least.
ncshooter426 wrote: -Old excorcist will be killed off. May retain some of the grimdark organ theme, but I suspect it will be streamlined to be more like the current tanks
-Immoloator will get some basic updates, but still a rhino
What's wrong with the current Immolator kit? Surely all that needs is an updated design to the box, as I seem to recall the kit being pretty good.
Exorcist is a tricky one - I kinda like the pipe organ look, but I appreciate it is a little silly to some.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: These will be the most expensive plastic miniatures, mark my words.
Oh I had the same thoughts some time ago, that if they ever did do plastic SoB they would be the most expensive modern GW range. They will take advantage of the thirsty sob fans mark my words, 60-70 bucks for a 10 person battle sister squad at least.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: These will be the most expensive plastic miniatures, mark my words.
Oh I had the same thoughts some time ago, that if they ever did do plastic SoB they would be the most expensive modern GW range. They will take advantage of the thirsty sob fans mark my words, 60-70 bucks for a 10 person battle sister squad at least.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: These will be the most expensive plastic miniatures, mark my words.
Oh I had the same thoughts some time ago, that if they ever did do plastic SoB they would be the most expensive modern GW range. They will take advantage of the thirsty sob fans mark my words, 60-70 bucks for a 10 person battle sister squad at least.
If the 10 women SoB kit is any more than $50 a box people will grab torches and pitchforks. Especially how currently you can buy 2 marine boxes for the cost of 1 bss. The cost of the current metal sob is one of the main factors to why people don't my the models direct from GW. IRC the current marine box is...$40 and a BSS is $80
Whilst I'm sure it'll get something of a redesign, I hope they keep the overall craziness of the exorcists design, rather than moving towards something like the more pedestrain FW version
Spoiler:
Which is nice enough, but doesn't quite hit the mark IMO.
I'd settle for the launchers being tweaked so they look a bit more for firing/facing -- something akin to the deimos pattern whilrwind.
Quite fond of the organ design myself, though is this mainly due to the excellent sculpt of the gunner's facial details, who looks simply amazing lost in the instrument she is playing.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB. To me it sounds like SoB are going to get a ground up redesign if they are going to let us see the design process over the course of the year. That means to me that SoB will likely be designed to appeal to the largest group of consumers not those that have been holding on for the last 15 years.
So I would expect some new stuff out of this to include some new designs and I wouldn't expect the SoB to look like Celestine to be honest because Celestine is pre-primaris 40k and pre-8th edition. I don't expect updates to any faction in the coming years to resemble their old faction designs.
Thousand Sons came out well before Celestine, and those kits are all true scale like primaris marines. From at least that point, and likely before, GW was working toward 8th and knew exactly what they were doing. The whole triumvirate series and accompanying narrative/campaign was basically the lead-up to the fluffstification for primaris marines. Celestine is effectively an 8th edition model.
ncshooter426 wrote: -Old excorcist will be killed off. May retain some of the grimdark organ theme, but I suspect it will be streamlined to be more like the current tanks
-Immoloator will get some basic updates, but still a rhino
What's wrong with the current Immolator kit? Surely all that needs is an updated design to the box, as I seem to recall the kit being pretty good.
Exorcist is a tricky one - I kinda like the pipe organ look, but I appreciate it is a little silly to some.
They haven't had the clear plastic bit in production for some time, so they started casting in resin. That's fine for small batch stuff (immos are web only and often oos), but I doubt they'll keep that route if they are pushing an all-new/revamped army. Shiny sells
I think the raised canopy of the Immolator still looks good, but the turret never looked right to me. Instead of a purposely designed kit it always looked like a somewhat poorly done conversion. I think the concept could be kept but revised in to something a little better looking.
The accessory sprue also kind of sucks. Most of the stuff on it doesn't actually look like part of the Rhino, and as a result the vehicle ends up looking like it rolled through a trophy and lawn ornament shop and got a bunch of stuff stuck on. I'd really like to see the accessory sprue redesigned to actually really work with the Rhino kit and accentuate it instead of looking tacked on.
It would be great if a new Immolator could become a tri-kit (Immolator and variants, Sisters Rhino and Repressor. I don't think it would be that hard, and it would allow the Exorsist to double up with a new tank as well.
Edit: I actually really love the original Immolator. Its part of the original SoB aesthetic that was ornate but functional, before it went all steampunk metal cherubs an pipe organs. Which is also cool, but I like the older look better.
BrotherGecko wrote: I think the 20 or so SoB true believers are inevitably going to be the most disappointed with eventual rerelease of SoB. To me it sounds like SoB are going to get a ground up redesign if they are going to let us see the design process over the course of the year. That means to me that SoB will likely be designed to appeal to the largest group of consumers not those that have been holding on for the last 15 years.
When 2nd edition Sisters of Battle came out in the late '90s I wanted to get them, but I was already collecting Imperial Guard, another, all-metal army. By the time my interest in 40k flared up again, and my economy had become robust enough to allow me to collect another army, Sisters of Battle were still all-metal, expensive, and hard to come by. And in my personal opinion the models were beginning to look old compared to most plastic armies, and I honestly believed they were going to update the range and release plastic models. I didn't want to go back to metal, they're difficult to convert in a satisfactory way, they chip easily, and transporting an army of them is heavy and cumbersome.
I don't believe I'm the only person who've been waiting for plastic models for more than 15 years now. I expect plastic Sisters of Battle to sell at least as well as Ad Mech.
I know I'll buy a set just to have. Ad Mech will continue to be my Imperial force of choice, but it couldn't hurt to round it out on my shelf with some angry nuns.
I am super psyched and excited about this announcement. I am sure that GW will do a good job seeing Celestine and frankly all the other amazing releases they've done the last couple of months.
20 yrs! Such a long time. I was a kid back then and now I have a kid. This is about reliving childhood and purging heretics with fire! I started painting my Celestine yesterday and I have an Atrapos from FW I'll paint in SoB/Inq colours.
I want a bunch of flamers.
I don't care too much about the discussion on how sexualised they look. I trust GW will find a good middleground.
jake wrote: The accessory sprue also kind of sucks. Most of the stuff on it doesn't actually look like part of the Rhino, and as a result the vehicle ends up looking like it rolled through a trophy and lawn ornament shop and got a bunch of stuff stuck on. I'd really like to see the accessory sprue redesigned to actually really work with the Rhino kit and accentuate it instead of looking tacked on.
In that regard, it still looks better than the Repulsive Primaris tank
I have to admit, sisters will be my next army. Not had the drive to return to my old SM army since Primaris hit and I've lived two lifetimes of frustration as my DE and Ork armies have massive gaps in their product lines. Be nice to return to some grim dark Imperial.
Really quite hyped, and i'm not an old sisters player. They will convert me to the fold with the release.
GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
I don't have an interest in starting a SOB army, but I do intend to follow through on a silent pledge I made a few years ago. As a way of supporting those who have waited so long, I will buy a few sisters models just to inflate the sales and show GW that the product line needs support. However, I'll make sure I buy them after the initial rush. The last thing I want to do is take a box of the shelf and cause a genuine fan to wait for more stock.
Strg Alt wrote: GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
Yes! This is my worry, I've been playing sisters since the army list that came out in the 3rd ed book, then we got a chapter approved codex, then the witchhunters, then the white dwarf codex then the digidex, then imperial agents, now the index.
It felt like each time, I have had to chop hands off models, swap weapons around. E.g. Canonnes - can't have a jump pack any more. Blessed weapon - must be a sword now. Battle sisters heavy weapons options kept changing. Redemptionists, gone, inquisitorial storm troopers, gone, (then back as scions?), inquisitors as allies - now their weapons options all change.
I am super exciting about plastic sisters and a new launch, just please don't invalidate any existing units/options. ( and can we have jump pack canonnesses back?)
ncshooter426 wrote: The SoB asthetic will be what Celestine/Gem are. They will carry their classic style, but with better face/hair sculpts, slight change to paldrons, and modern (relative) bolters. I would not expect a huge change to models they put out 6 months ago...even if they're a year out. Celestine's armor is perfect in proportions.
-Seraphim will get the new packs,
-Retributors will get an overhaul to make them a bit more "heavy weapons" look.
-Celestians will likely have different helm option than the std spru
-Old excorcist will be killed off. May retain some of the grimdark organ theme, but I suspect it will be streamlined to be more like the current tanks
-Immoloator will get some basic updates, but still a rhino
-Repentias will be redone completely. I'm guessing more akin to sisters of silence in terms of stance/look, but with AoSDoK clothing style
-There *will* be a flier. GW loves fliers..I love fliers. It's going to happen.
-New HQ options will be needed. We have only 1 real named character, Ver doesn't count since she's no different than a canonness and was technically limited
+1
Maybe adding:
- Plastic version of the Repressor
- Dito of the Penitent Engine (the only one AS model I did not get - as they keep falling apart)
I like the Exorcist / organ look and hope they keep it.
Strg Alt wrote: GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
There aren't any Death Guard Terminator minis with power fists, so that's why they don't get the rule for them.
No I'm not arguing in favour of that, simply stating the reason why.
The standard hairstyle is part of their iconic canonical appearance. Theres a reason that literally every sister over has the same hair style. Changing it would be like changing their armor. So I doubt we'll see more hairstyles.
Thankfully for those that don't care for it (which is perfectly fine, of course) there's likely to be plenty of helmets.
Strg Alt wrote: GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
Yes! This is my worry, I've been playing sisters since the army list that came out in the 3rd ed book, then we got a chapter approved codex, then the witchhunters, then the white dwarf codex then the digidex, then imperial agents, now the index.
It felt like each time, I have had to chop hands off models, swap weapons around. E.g. Canonnes - can't have a jump pack any more. Blessed weapon - must be a sword now. Battle sisters heavy weapons options kept changing. Redemptionists, gone, inquisitorial storm troopers, gone, (then back as scions?), inquisitors as allies - now their weapons options all change.
I am super exciting about plastic sisters and a new launch, just please don't invalidate any existing units/options. ( and can we have jump pack canonnesses back?)
Fair points well made. Though I believe Redemptionists did a full on hokey-cokey. In/Out/In/Out.
I suspect we might yet see new units for Sisters.
Consider Dark Eldar, and Necrons when they got a proper spit and polish job back around, oooooh, must've been 2010?
Dark Eldar in particular did exceptionally well. All units re-done. Only one that didn't return is of course Vect. Some new units added (extra beasties, Venom, Archon's Court spring to mind. Oh, and the flyers. Might've been more, but I can think of them right now).
Necrons? Wowser. Only the existing plastics were left as-were. Received two new flyers, the Catacomb Command Barge and the Dakka Barge, the transport and the phallocannon, Deathmarks.
The above aren't of course including Special Characters. That's a delineation all my own, and made because not everyone likes using them/agrees to play against them. I make no judgement on those stances, save to say I personally don't have an issue.
RIght now, Sisters have...from memory.....Sisters, Special Weapons, Heavy Weapons, Organ Tank, Rhino, Immolator, Seraphim, Repentia and the Walker Thing. Pretty slim pickings. All of those being converted to plastic is a pretty smol release these days - spesh as the infantry can be made a single box of models (which is not to say it should be done that way).
I can see Repentia getting the biggest re-design. Not because of their aesthetic, but because they're currently jolly difficult to dual-kit box. Best they could manage there would be extra weapon option which doesn't really cut the mustard these days.
I don't have the books to confirm it, but IIRC it was Our Martyred Lady.
I could be wrong, though, and that they just took another round of massive crippling casualties (which is something that happens to them a lot anyway).
Hmm I know some of the Order fought on Cadia but escaped and some were killed on the voyage to Terra with RG, but not seen anything to say they were wiped out - might be one of the novels or codexes I don;t have though as I no longer get everything.
The Martyred Lady are the poster girls for the faction. They'll certainly be making an appearance. Sanctuary 101 couldn't kill them, Armageddon couldn't kill them, and neither could Cadia.
Apparently the Tyranid codex' galaxy map show a tendril bearing down on the Ophelia system which potentially would be a neat hook, but the sisters are too big and too decentralized to be wiped out by a devastating loss.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I can see Repentia getting the biggest re-design. Not because of their aesthetic, but because they're currently jolly difficult to dual-kit box. Best they could manage there would be extra weapon option which doesn't really cut the mustard these days.
I could see an Aspirant/Repentia kit using the same base with different heads and weapons... with lots of sort-of-cadian-compatible leftover parts for those who want to make female guard?
The standard hairstyle is part of their iconic canonical appearance. Theres a reason that literally every sister over has the same hair style. Changing it would be like changing their armor. So I doubt we'll see more hairstyles.
Thankfully for those that don't care for it (which is perfectly fine, of course) there's likely to be plenty of helmets.
Aren't the hairstyles supposed to be wigs and the sisters are all bald?
I don't have the books to confirm it, but IIRC it was Our Martyred Lady.
I could be wrong, though, and that they just took another round of massive crippling casualties (which is something that happens to them a lot anyway).
Hmm I know some of the Order fought on Cadia but escaped and some were killed on the voyage to Terra with RG, but not seen anything to say they were wiped out - might be one of the novels or codexes I don;t have though as I no longer get everything.
The Martyred Lady are the poster girls for the faction. They'll certainly be making an appearance. Sanctuary 101 couldn't kill them, Armageddon couldn't kill them, and neither could Cadia.
Apparently the Tyranid codex' galaxy map show a tendril bearing down on the Ophelia system which potentially would be a neat hook, but the sisters are too big and too decentralized to be wiped out by a devastating loss.
They also confirmed there are vastly more Sisters than there are Marines so that helps
The standard hairstyle is part of their iconic canonical appearance. Theres a reason that literally every sister over has the same hair style. Changing it would be like changing their armor. So I doubt we'll see more hairstyles.
Thankfully for those that don't care for it (which is perfectly fine, of course) there's likely to be plenty of helmets.
Aren't the hairstyles supposed to be wigs and the sisters are all bald?
I've heard that theory before. I have no idea if its based in canon, but it makes a lot of sense. Or rather, it makes sense that Sisters who can't naturally adopt that hairstyle (because of injuries, age, bionics, or even by preference) would wear wigs.
They also confirmed there are vastly more Sisters than there are Marines so that helps
Sisters must be the second largest Imperial armed force by a pretty wide margin, right? Not anywhere as numerous as guard, but waaaaaaaay more numerous than Marines. It's easy to imagine that most Imperial citizens have never seen a Marine and might not even believe they exists, but have seen a Sororitas.
I wonder if Mechanicus forces are numerically larger than the Sororitas?
jake wrote: Sisters must be the second largest Imperial armed force by a pretty wide margin, right? Not anywhere as numerous as guard, but waaaaaaaay more numerous than Marines. It's easy to imagine that most Imperial citizens have never seen a Marine and might not even believe they exists, but have seen a Sororitas.
Imperial Navy are more numerous (but that's cheating ).
I expect both Sororitas and Skitarii to be extremely "rare" at galactic level. If you live in the right planet you will maybe have seen one but on most planet they are unheard of.
Actually theres a Sororitas monastery in most imperial planets so Jake is right, Sororitas (Sister of Battle, Hospitalier, Dialogous, etc...) are one of the biggest (In numbers) Imperial "military" organisations.
Galas wrote: Give me a organ-gun exorcist or give me death!
If I throw a metal hybrid Exorcist your way, you may get both at the same time.
This may actually be my only regret with a plastic update. After Dreadnoughts were turned into plastic models, the Exorcist is the last deadly weapon I carry around.
If I were being cynical I'd say that the sisters will only get a handful of kits.
A battle sisters box that contains one of each heavy weapon and one of each special weapon with it standing in as dominions and retributors and celestians depending on load out. This would mirror how the GSC neophytes are set up. There are other examples (and counter examples) for this kind of release, too.
I'm think it's possible that the Seraphim and Repentia might be a dual kit, relying on poses that look half running, half jumping. I think three infantry boxes is more likely though and these two are good candidates for separate boxes.
Then clamshell packs for the Dialogus, Hospitalier and Imigifier.
Vehicles wise I'd expect to see an entirely redesigned and plastic Exorcist. The immolator I think is already on par and instead gets packed with a new plastic canopy.
I imagine the cannoness will get a static body sprue with maybe a command sprue shared with the Seraphim/Battle sisters box. I'm basing this on how mono-pose a lot of the newer GW minis are. It's possible it'll be a entirely mono-pose clamshell figure and the armament options will be curtailed but I'd hope not.
Ignispacium wrote: If I were being cynical I'd say that the sisters will only get a handful of kits.
A battle sisters box that contains one of each heavy weapon and one of each special weapon with it standing in as dominions and retributors and celestians depending on load out. This would mirror how the GSC neophytes are set up. There are other examples (and counter examples) for this kind of release, too.
I'm think it's possible that the Seraphim and Repentia might be a dual kit, relying on poses that look half running, half jumping. I think three infantry boxes is more likely though and these two are good candidates for separate boxes.
Then clamshell packs for the Dialogus, Hospitalier and Imigifier.
Vehicles wise I'd expect to see an entirely redesigned and plastic Exorcist. The immolator I think is already on par and instead gets packed with a new plastic canopy.
I imagine the cannoness will get a static body sprue with maybe a command sprue shared with the Seraphim/Battle sisters box. I'm basing this on how mono-pose a lot of the newer GW minis are. It's possible it'll be a entirely mono-pose clamshell figure and the armament options will be curtailed but I'd hope not.
You seriously think the Repentia, are going to go from clad in imodest rags, to wearing something that could just as easily be a full suit of power armour?
I can't for a minute believe they'd share a kit with any other sisters model.
I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
Talizvar wrote: I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
Considering that the entire range is going to have to be rebooted except for Celestine, I don't know that we should expect them to get an aircraft right out of the gates.
Or that they'd need one.
The Valkyrie exists and would fit them just fine.
Heck, maybe shortly before/after their release they could just re-release the Valkyrie with an extra sprue to allow for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built from it. Maybe put some iconography on there for the factions that can take it, too, like the Blood Angels/Grey Knights stuff on the Stormraven sprue. Sisters get an aircraft and Guard/Scions get an updated model, too.
Ideally (and I'd prefer) they'd get separate boxes.
Just throwing out ideas about how GW might compact concept, design and production for an entire line in the span of less than two years. It might result in corners being cut or adaptations being made somewhere.
I don't think they'll be a single build kit regardless. Maybe it'll be a dual build with a Reiver or scout equivalent?
Talizvar wrote: I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
Sisters use theri own ThunderHawk in a recent BL short story.
ncshooter426 wrote: The SoB asthetic will be what Celestine/Gem are. They will carry their classic style, but with better face/hair sculpts, slight change to paldrons, and modern (relative) bolters. I would not expect a huge change to models they put out 6 months ago...even if they're a year out. Celestine's armor is perfect in proportions.
-Seraphim will get the new packs,
-Retributors will get an overhaul to make them a bit more "heavy weapons" look.
-Celestians will likely have different helm option than the std spru
-Old excorcist will be killed off. May retain some of the grimdark organ theme, but I suspect it will be streamlined to be more like the current tanks
-Immoloator will get some basic updates, but still a rhino
-Repentias will be redone completely. I'm guessing more akin to sisters of silence in terms of stance/look, but with AoSDoK clothing style
-There *will* be a flier. GW loves fliers..I love fliers. It's going to happen.
-New HQ options will be needed. We have only 1 real named character, Ver doesn't count since she's no different than a canonness and was technically limited
+1
Maybe adding:
- Plastic version of the Repressor
- Dito of the Penitent Engine (the only one AS model I did not get - as they keep falling apart)
I like the Exorcist / organ look and hope they keep it.
Just copying over what I put on B&C board regarding theories for plastic kits reguarding the units that are Adepta Sororitas keyword specific units.
It would be great if they could do it in a handful of kits and if they only focus on the Adepta Sororitas keyword units they may be able to do in in a handful of kits or so.
-Battle Sisters and Celestians could be one box because they have the same options similar to how the Space Wolves have their base tac marine box (covers 3 units Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard) This is if Celestians stay as a "battle sister but better" as both squads have the same options for weapon upgrades and such and would be great if Celestians got a separate Sternguard/Vanguard equivlent box and rule changes to have similar options to them -Dominions and Retrubutors could be one box, however with the specification that one is special weapons and the other is heavy weapons I could see them as 2 seperate boxes with a weapons sprew swap
-Serephim, like the assault marines they should get their own specific box as they are jump troops for more dynamic poses like the assault marine box.
-Repentia, they would need their own separate box
-Exorcist, would be great to get this in all plastic like the Immolator (maybe even make it a dual kit with the Represor) Would be amazing if GW did this
So 6 kits to cover just the models in the current list that specifically have the Adepta Sororitas Keyword (would love if they did the Penitent Engine in plastic as well)
Though looking at that list I can see I compleatly spaced clam-pack characters but the above list would be specific for Boxed plastic sets. Though clampacks would be pretty obvious, Cannones, Imagifier, Hospitaller (the Hospitaller looks amazing as is and would love to see this one in plastic), Dialogus, Repentia Mistress. That is if GW only dose what we have in the Index for clampack characters.
Would love to see a Sisters specific flyer or a variant flyer that is a gunship with transport space
I put this in the plastic sisters thread in the general 40k section, though is relevant to this thread for a theory for possible content for a base BSS plastic set
For refrence here's pics of the BA sprew from GW webstore. In combination with the level of decoration if we can get similar if not the same content (with exceptions of weapon option limitations) on the sprews, enough bitz to build 10 SoB with options to have 1 superior with load-out options (chainsword, powersword, pistols and combi bolters), 2 specials or 1 special and 1 heavy.
Spoiler:
plenty of bitz for bolter sisters and full head options, enough for both with and without helmets
1 or 2 heavy weapons (heavy bolter, Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer)
Flamer, Melta and Storm Bolter
Combi-bolters ; Flamer, Plasma, Melta, Crossbow, (superior specific storm bolter?)
pistols; Bolt pistol, plasma pistol, melta pistol, hand flamer
Chain sword, power sword, (power maul?)
plenty of other bitz, incense burners, purity seals, scrolls, grenades, pistol and knives in hands and holstered and such. At least that is my hopes for the base SoBBSS kit.
I think there's been enough of a song and dance made over sisters, and the fact they said they're going to do a behind the scenes development series with them, that it'll be a Dark Eldar 2.0 size release (a double sized one). New character and the new basic plastics of sisters and seraphim to show off over the course of the year, maybe penitent engines and arco-flagellants if they decide to play up the rest of the Ecclesiarchy - but then a bunch of new stuff in order to keep the hype going after the first week of pre-orders.
Talizvar wrote: I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
Considering that the entire range is going to have to be rebooted except for Celestine, I don't know that we should expect them to get an aircraft right out of the gates.
I would.
Or that they'd need one.
The Valkyrie exists and would fit them just fine.
Heck, maybe shortly before/after their release they could just re-release the Valkyrie with an extra sprue to allow for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built from it. Maybe put some iconography on there for the factions that can take it, too, like the Blood Angels/Grey Knights stuff on the Stormraven sprue. Sisters get an aircraft and Guard/Scions get an updated model, too.
Galas wrote: Actually theres a Sororitas monastery in most imperial planets so Jake is right, Sororitas (Sister of Battle, Hospitalier, Dialogous, etc...) are one of the biggest (In numbers) Imperial "military" organisations.
Ref?
Talizvar wrote: My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
How about you sculpt a nice giant fleur-de-lys in stone, adorn it with lots of golden things and put EVEN MORE bones from various saints and gak all over it, and then pay a dozen bazillion credit to the Mechanicus to make them turn this into an actual flyer?
Seems like something a good Ministorum Priest would do, after all those scum hivers can always work harder and eat less so you can get the credits right .
Mr Morden wrote: Sisters use theri own ThunderHawk in a recent BL short story.
Ah! good to know.
I think I had about the right idea of using similar equipment since they already make extensive use of the Rhino chassis.
So, being absolutely insane hopeful, that would be excuse enough to get the mythical plastic Thunderhawk out with a few faction custom sprues?
That's kind of my point. They only have one flyer in their codex; a new kit allowing for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built would be a good way to offer an update to multiple armies at once.
They've done this sort of thing before with the Stormtalon and Knight kits.
Kanluwen wrote: Vendetta's not in the Codex anymore for Guard.
That's kind of my point. They only have one flyer in their codex; a new kit allowing for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built would be a good way to offer an update to multiple armies at once.
They've done this sort of thing before with the Stormtalon and Knight kits.
That's kind of my point. They only have one flyer in their codex; a new kit allowing for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built would be a good way to offer an update to multiple armies at once.
And you're missing mine: They removed it rather than keep it in the codex. It was a kit that many people had converted or bought through Forge World. Instead, they removed it. If we're going to see anything for Guard, I'd expect to see some kind of dedicated Flyer like a Thunderbolt, Lightning, or maybe even a Marauder.
They've done this sort of thing before with the Stormtalon and Knight kits.
The Stormtalon/Stormhawk was only available, initially, to a single army. The upgraded Knight stuff was to add more variants to an army list made up of a very small list of items.
Quite frankly, they're not really the same things at all.
That's kind of my point. They only have one flyer in their codex; a new kit allowing for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built would be a good way to offer an update to multiple armies at once.
And you're missing mine:
They removed it rather than keep it in the codex. It was a kit that many people had converted or bought through Forge World. Instead, they removed it.
If we're going to see anything for Guard, I'd expect to see some kind of dedicated Flyer like a Thunderbolt, Lightning, or maybe even a Marauder.
Given how GW are operating with Codex army lists at present, they removed it because core GW doesn't sell a Vendetta kit. The option is still in the GW Index (I think - can't find my copy of Index 2 at present), and is still in the FW Index Astra Militarum.
If Kawauso's idea were to come to pass - and I don't think it is likely, in all honesty - GW would just include the rules in the box, and away we go.
On an tangental note, what entries in the various Codex army lists released for 8th are only in there because of a FW entry, rather than core GW plastic/metal/Finecast? I honestly can't think of any, other than possibly some Dreadnought weapon options.
That's kind of my point. They only have one flyer in their codex; a new kit allowing for a Vendetta and a new load-out or two to be built would be a good way to offer an update to multiple armies at once.
And you're missing mine:
They removed it rather than keep it in the codex. It was a kit that many people had converted or bought through Forge World. Instead, they removed it.
If we're going to see anything for Guard, I'd expect to see some kind of dedicated Flyer like a Thunderbolt, Lightning, or maybe even a Marauder.
Given how GW are operating with Codex army lists at present, they removed it because core GW doesn't sell a Vendetta kit. The option is still in the GW Index (I think - can't find my copy of Index 2 at present), and is still in the FW Index Astra Militarum.
It is not in Index Imperium 2 either. It was in the FW Index from the start.
If Kawauso's idea were to come to pass - and I don't think it is likely, in all honesty - GW would just include the rules in the box, and away we go.
On an tangental note, what entries in the various Codex army lists released for 8th are only in there because of a FW entry, rather than core GW plastic/metal/Finecast? I honestly can't think of any, other than possibly some Dreadnought weapon options.
Honestly, I think they cleaned out the Dreadnought weapon options. There's potentially some Razorback weapon options but that's a kinda/sorta argument.
Talizvar wrote: I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
In many ways that was how the original Sisters Army started with the equivalent of a Tactical Squad, then a Rhino with Flamers, etc.
My big question is... when do people think we'll get the first snippet of information, and how often do you think they'll give us an update?
I'm thinking that we'll probably get the first snippet early next month when they'll post a video or article making a bit of fanfare that the project has started and showing us a few concept sketches of what they're working on.
Then, at the VERY LEAST we should get an update once every other month. Between now and their release, that'd be like 12 updates. It'd be kinda crappy to only get a little bit of something every two months, but I figure that's the minimum that they could give us. I'm hoping for an update either once every month or once every two weeks.
I think the number of updates we get will be proportional to the scale of the army update. In other words, fewer updates will mean fewer kits and things to show off. More updates means more kits.
Talizvar wrote: I think that would be a legitimate fear: Sisters being this partial force like Adeptus Mechanicus was, Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Harlequins.
It may start out that way (Small force, a "vs" box like Forgebane) and build up later.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
Valkyrie, Thunderhawk, and IN Avenger Strike Fighter(which is noted in the FW fluff as being a frequent attachment to Sisters forces since it complements their style of warfare).
But that's "old world" thinking, nowadays everyone has their own special-snowflake flyers and pilot corps to go with their complete disregard for the division of military power that's supposed to exist in the Imperium and their non-STC vehicles, so yeah, probably a flying fleur de lis or some nonsense.
drbored wrote: My big question is... when do people think we'll get the first snippet of information, and how often do you think they'll give us an update?
I'm thinking that we'll probably get the first snippet early next month when they'll post a video or article making a bit of fanfare that the project has started and showing us a few concept sketches of what they're working on.
Concept sketches seem unlikely given the possibility of 3rd parties making models based on the sketches and releasing the models before GW. Not ever going to happen again...
drbored wrote: My big question is... when do people think we'll get the first snippet of information, and how often do you think they'll give us an update?
I'm thinking that we'll probably get the first snippet early next month when they'll post a video or article making a bit of fanfare that the project has started and showing us a few concept sketches of what they're working on.
Concept sketches seem unlikely given the possibility of 3rd parties making models based on the sketches and releasing the models before GW. Not ever going to happen again...
T
This is exactly the reason why I think the plastic Sisters will be exactly the same as the metal ones. They can show their development because everyone already knows what they’ll end up looking like.
I’d love them to use the depressor as the base for all their tanks rather than the rhino. Would make for a bit more distinction from their power-armoured brethren.
Mothboi666 wrote: [b]god I hope the repressor comes back was an awesome looking transport and I think really captured the sisters essence
I agree. It had the "no-nonsense professional military with a hint of 40K weirdness" look that was a hallmark of Sisters in 2nd edition.
I remember a comment from one of the designers (or maybe Jes) way, way back after the very first Sisters models were released where they described the army as having an interesting thematic contrast, were these very severe, very plain women in very plain black, white and red serve an organization that is almost their opposite: decadent and corrupt and ornate and unorganized and sprawling. Thats paraphrasing, by the way.
I'd love to see Sisters go back to their more "no-nonsense" themes, and expand upon them. Let them be a stark contrast to the ridiculousness of the Ministorium, instead of part of it.
ERJAK wrote: I want bikes. That's like my number one thing I want for plastic SoB. Very specifically I want bikes that look like this:
The fact that GW has decided to open the door to the design process leads me to believe that nothing is yet set in stone, so speculation at this point may be "whistling in the wind."
That said, it also means there's potential for new stuff - they won't necessarily feel the need to carbon copy the last edition.
As for FW, as someone who primarily collects FWIG stuff, I've noticed that the clear division between FW and GW proper has become blurry over the last year. You can tell by the way the GW websites have embraced Necromunda, which is technically a FW property, they're promoting FW character miniatures, while FW is releasing all sorts of Custodes and Sisters of Silence stuff. In the December CA, they addressed FW models as well, leaving very little out. GW used to treat FW as a footnote, apparently seeing FW as a competitor, which lead to a number of FW vehicles being remade in plastic to be marketable to a bigger audience.
I don't see why the eventual Codex: Sisters of Battle couldn't incorporate FW designs, such as FW fighter planes. I think GW is moving in that direction.
ERJAK wrote: I want bikes. That's like my number one thing I want for plastic SoB. Very specifically I want bikes that look like this:
The fact that GW has decided to open the door to the design process leads me to believe that nothing is yet set in stone, so speculation at this point may be "whistling in the wind."
That said, it also means there's potential for new stuff - they won't necessarily feel the need to carbon copy the last edition.
I don't know. They've done an open door to the design process before. I recall the publishing of the whole process from start to finish on the Eldar Falcon. Of course that was a long, long, time ago. I choose a positive outlook.
drbored wrote: My big question is... when do people think we'll get the first snippet of information, and how often do you think they'll give us an update?
I'm thinking that we'll probably get the first snippet early next month when they'll post a video or article making a bit of fanfare that the project has started and showing us a few concept sketches of what they're working on.
Then, at the VERY LEAST we should get an update once every other month. Between now and their release, that'd be like 12 updates. It'd be kinda crappy to only get a little bit of something every two months, but I figure that's the minimum that they could give us. I'm hoping for an update either once every month or once every two weeks.
I think the number of updates we get will be proportional to the scale of the army update. In other words, fewer updates will mean fewer kits and things to show off. More updates means more kits.
I wouldn't expect anything as structured as that. More like they hit some landmark, it's time to share a snippet. With just enough regularity so people don't riot for lack of new information.
Realistically there's nothing to stop them from having a post on Warhammer Community every other week. A couple of paragraphs and a photo or two are easily found if you don't just have a number of kits, background and codex artwork in the works, but also have various stages of it (concepts, computer renders, resin/3D printed masters, painted models ad anything in between).
Kind of depends on how big the release ends up being, as you say, but if GW makes such a big deal out of it we get to hope for a sizeable release, one would think.
Jadenim wrote: Repent is could work as a dual kit with Death Cult Assassins, but that’s getting Inquisition in your ministorum again...
Nah. Death Cults are like Frateris Militia. Concerned citizens willing to lend a hand when needed.
Strg Alt wrote: GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
There aren't any Death Guard Terminator minis with power fists, so that's why they don't get the rule for them.
No I'm not arguing in favour of that, simply stating the reason why.
GW could have just included power fists on the new DG Terminator sprue and everybody would have been happy. Simple as that and no rocket science involved. But they chose not to in order to force people to buy the new shiny box. This is the best way to alienate customers. I own three Nurgle forces: CSM, Renegades and Daemons. I was at first interested in the DG codex but turned my back in disgust as soon as the news spread about GW pulling off their infamous shenanigans again.
If/when preorders go up, I will order everything. And still not believe it.
If/when the shipping notification hits my email, still not going to believe it.
If/when the box arrives, nope, not real.
When and only when I am holding new Sisters in my hand will I believe it.
I... I might actually even paint them. God help me, I might actually buy new paints, since mine have to be long dried up by now, and actually put paint on plastic (well, primer).
I haven't played 40k in years, pretty sure I skipped the last two editions. I will still buy plastic Sisters of Battle.
Strg Alt wrote: GW will certainly screw AS players in one way or another. Just take a look at the new Death Guard Codex and how they changed some of the unit options. DG Terminators don´t have access to power fists anymore. So people like me who have a CSM force dedicated to Nurgle got the good old middle finger.
There aren't any Death Guard Terminator minis with power fists, so that's why they don't get the rule for them.
No I'm not arguing in favour of that, simply stating the reason why.
GW could have just included power fists on the new DG Terminator sprue and everybody would have been happy. Simple as that and no rocket science involved. But they chose not to in order to force people to buy the new shiny box. This is the best way to alienate customers. I own three Nurgle forces: CSM, Renegades and Daemons. I was at first interested in the DG codex but turned my back in disgust as soon as the news spread that I had to spend 35 quid.
More likely is, there will be two different kinds of Repentia that can be built out of the same kit.
Maybe a kit with the traditional Repentia wargear, and a second unit type that uses the same bodies. Given the SoB preference for short ranged firepower perhaps dual wielding pistols.
More likely is, there will be two different kinds of Repentia that can be built out of the same kit.
Maybe a kit with the traditional Repentia wargear, and a second unit type that uses the same bodies. Given the SoB preference for short ranged firepower perhaps dual wielding pistols.
This is assuming they get Repentia, or that Repentia are going to be the same as they are currently. As they are, they're very unique compared to the other Sisters of Battle units (that are predominantly based on the Battle Sister style).
I could see them doing something like they did with the Melusai for Daughters of Khaine, where you have a light armored version that's base, and a unit that has some armor plates that simply go over the light armor torso/body. In this way, you could have a light Repentia squad and a heavy weapon Repentia-type squad.
Strg Alt wrote: GW could have just included power fists on the new DG Terminator sprue and everybody would have been happy. Simple as that and no rocket science involved. But they chose not to in order to force people to buy the new shiny box. This is the best way to alienate customers. I own three Nurgle forces: CSM, Renegades and Daemons. I was at first interested in the DG codex but turned my back in disgust as soon as the news spread about GW pulling off their infamous shenanigans again.
Of course they could have, and I completely agree that they should have, but they didn't, and no model/no rule, so DG Terminators cannot get Power Fists.
It's the same reason the Terminator Lord entry exists yet has none of the DG special rules. They don't make a Death Guard Terminator Lord model, so there are no rules for a Death Guard Terminator Lord. They do make a Terminator Lord, and a Lord of Contagion, so those get rules, rather than just being one entry with a unified statline and a lot of weapon options.
What does Death Guard have to do with Sisters of Battle? Seems rather off topic at this point.
If they are going to make a dual kit out of Repentia, they could do it with say Death Cult Assassins. Give them both plain bodysuits, then give Repentia a tabard to go over top, and hooded heads, wiht DCA having masks or such and carapace armor on their chests. Justify it as DC Assassins not being part of the sisters proper, but auxiliaries of a sort.
MajorWesJanson wrote: What does Death Guard have to do with Sisters of Battle? Seems rather off topic at this point.
If they are going to make a dual kit out of Repentia, they could do it with say Death Cult Assassins. Give them both plain bodysuits, then give Repentia a tabard to go over top, and hooded heads, wiht DCA having masks or such and carapace armor on their chests. Justify it as DC Assassins not being part of the sisters proper, but auxiliaries of a sort.
While I could kind of see that working, I would MUCH rather see a duel kit include a new Sororitas unit than a non-Sororitas unit. I think there's a lot of room for another non-power armored Sororitas unit representing either Repentia who take another path in their penitence, Sisters of one of the non-Militant orders, initiate Sisters still in training or Sisters who's combat roles make power armor unpractical (recon, snipers, maintenance, missionaries, etc).
Yes, lets not subsume other organisations into the Sororitas. Death Cult Assassins aren't anything to do with the sisters of battle other than being women.
I think there's a lot of room for another non-power armored Sororitas unit
Fraeteris Militia would be very cool, not technically Sisters of Battle I think they use to be in the codex?
They did, but they aren't a Sororitas unit. They're a Ministorium. While I do hope the Ministorium gets some attention eventually as an ally force for Imperial armies, personally I'd really like to see this release/codex focus solely on Sisters of Battle. After the Witch Hunters codex I really want a proper Sisters release where they're actually the stars of their own codex.
That said, I think a way to introduce Fraeteris Militia back into a Sororitas army it would be cool to see an Order Dialagous Unit that could rally faithful Imperial citizens. This would be non-power armored Sisters that moves ahead of the rest of the army, speaking the word of the Emperor and working the faithful into a religious frenzy. This way you get classic Fraeteris Militia, but it with a Sisters army because they're led be a Sister.
In game play terms they could be a scout unit that could bring militia troops on from the board edge (similar to the old Tyranid rule that let you bring on endless waves of gaunts).
Mothboi666 wrote: [b]god I hope the repressor comes back was an awesome looking transport and I think really captured the sisters essence
I agree. It had the "no-nonsense professional military with a hint of 40K weirdness" look that was a hallmark of Sisters in 2nd edition.
I remember a comment from one of the designers (or maybe Jes) way, way back after the very first Sisters models were released where they described the army as having an interesting thematic contrast, were these very severe, very plain women in very plain black, white and red serve an organization that is almost their opposite: decadent and corrupt and ornate and unorganized and sprawling. Thats paraphrasing, by the way.
I'd love to see Sisters go back to their more "no-nonsense" themes, and expand upon them. Let them be a stark contrast to the ridiculousness of the Ministorium, instead of part of it.
I think the severity of sisters are their black and white, fanatical views. The plainness of the sisters range is due to limited developmenty ( they've a line squad, jump squad and heavy weapons squad + 2 rhino variants)
The sisters aesthetic is quite ornate (and far more so compared to the marines of the day) and i would like to see that pushed out in new vehicle kits etc. The Rhino Primaris(no relation to cawl) is an example of what I'd hope to not see= arches and skulls pushed into a basic rhino frame.
I hope a future immolator sprue keeps the elements that made it great ( arched viewports to alter the sillohette of the rhino, rose window/gunner shield) and pushes the tank further from the base rhino in a way the repressor does.
I'd also like to see more madness in the army- penitent servitors and engines showing heretics actively being crucified and punished are a great example.
I think the severity of sisters are their black and white, fanatical views. The plainness of the sisters range is due to limited developmenty
While thats probably true, I'd personally prefer the Sisters to retain some of that plainness instead of going full bonkers like much of the rest of 40K has. A lot of the crazier elements (flayed people strapped to machines, frothing fanatics) are actually Ministorium stuff, not Sororitas stuff. And I think thats an interesting divide. The recent Celestine and her companions are a good example of the Sororitas detailed and ornate but not over the top look that they've had since the beginning. I think there's a lot of visual design room for Sisters to be ornate but somewhat understated and leave the crazy stuff to the Ministorum, where its historically always been anyways.
I think there's a lot of room for another non-power armored Sororitas unit
Fraeteris Militia would be very cool, not technically Sisters of Battle I think they use to be in the codex?
They did, but they aren't a Sororitas unit. They're a Ministorium. While I do hope the Ministorium gets some attention eventually as an ally force for Imperial armies, personally I'd really like to see this release/codex focus solely on Sisters of Battle. After the Witch Hunters codex I really want a proper Sisters release where they're actually the stars of their own codex.
That said, I think a way to introduce Fraeteris Militia back into a Sororitas army it would be cool to see an Order Dialagous Unit that could rally faithful Imperial citizens. This would be non-power armored Sisters that moves ahead of the rest of the army, speaking the word of the Emperor and working the faithful into a religious frenzy. This way you get classic Fraeteris Militia, but it with a Sisters army because they're led be a Sister.
In game play terms they could be a scout unit that could bring militia troops on from the board edge (similar to the old Tyranid rule that let you bring on endless waves of gaunts).
Have to disagree on that. There is no "solely Sisters of Battle", really, they're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy - the two are inextricably linked in a way Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus just aren't. Without Sisters, Ecclesiarchy stuff likely doesn't even merit an ally codex, and without Ecclesiarchy stuff Sisters will end up Flanderized like Grey Knights in order to stretch out those last couple of extra units beyond the obvious ones that would be needed for a full Codex.
Putting in two or three Ecclesiarchy units and a couple of characters in a book that will still be like 80% Sisters units, called Codex: Adepta Sororitas, and have a big ol' Battle Sister on the cover would in no way prevent Sisters from being the star of the codex IMO, but it would let GW include certain types of unit without requiring Allies or stretching the SoB concept to breaking point. I mean, it's the same format the original 2nd Ed Sisters codex followed, and nobody will seriously claim they weren't the stars of that show.
Have to disagree on that. There is no "solely Sisters of Battle", really, they're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy - the two are inextricably linked in a way Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus just aren't. Without Sisters, Ecclesiarchy stuff likely doesn't even merit an ally codex, and without Ecclesiarchy stuff Sisters will end up Flanderized like Grey Knights in order to stretch out those last couple of extra units beyond the obvious ones that would be needed for a full Codex.
Putting in two or three Ecclesiarchy units and a couple of characters in a book that will still be like 80% Sisters units, called Codex: Adepta Sororitas, and have a big ol' Battle Sister on the cover would in no way prevent Sisters from being the star of the codex IMO, but it would let GW include certain types of unit without requiring Allies or stretching the SoB concept to breaking point. I mean, it's the same format the original 2nd Ed Sisters codex followed, and nobody will seriously claim they weren't the stars of that show.
They're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy. Thats the point. The Ministorium is not part of that army. We don't see Imperial Guard armies rolling around with Imperial bureaucrats and accountants, even though they're the standing army of the Imperium.
I agree that you can't claim that Sororitis weren't the stars of their original codex. But what you can claim is that GW did the bare minimum number of Sisters units and sculpts for that codex. Just 4 units and 1 character (all based on the Marine archetypes) and only 2 squads worth of models. Meanwhile they did 3 Ministorium units and two special characters (both of which got models). So Sisters have a long history of having to share their codexes with rando dudes. I guess whether you think thats a good thing or not is a matter of opinion (and if you do, thats fine). Personally, what drew me to the army is cool religious women in power armor. I don't care about the other stuff at all. I do think the Ministorium stuff would be well served by being separated so it can function as allies for other Imperial forces as well. Let it appear in an Agents book alongside Inquisitors and Assassins. Hopefully that way it will get its own attention and models, and then people who really love it will be able to enjoy it and use it as much as they want.
I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.
I'm totally against Inq stuff taking up ANY space in a Sisters dex. But church stuff is a completely different matter. The issue would be, let's not substitute Codex Adepta Sororitas with Codex Ecclesiarchy. Frateris Militia, Penitent Engines, and Ministorum clergy all should be fighting alongside Sisters but Sisters need to be the main event.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
In Dawn of War: Soulstorm, the Sisters flyer was basically a Dark Angels Dark Talon fighter cover in Sisters iconography.
My main thought is what would an SOB aircraft / drop-craft look like?
See quite a few Dark Talon or Avenger conversions out there.
Funny thing is the Sisters seem to have the same aerodynamic aesthetic of their brother marines: like a brick.
Something like the offspring of a brick and an old church.
I think something like the Repressor and StormRaven.
In Dawn of War: Soulstorm, the Sisters flyer was basically a Dark Angels Dark Talon fighter cover in Sisters iconography.
In Dawn of War Soulstorm, flyers were cancer. Not a good source.
Ministorum Stuff in a SoB Codex needs to be like Tau Auxiliaries.
Nobody can arguee that Vespids or Kroot are stealing the light from Tau. The problem with SoB is that they have had 0 new models so instead of the Codex being 90% Sisters 10% Ministorum is more like 60% Sisters 40% Ministorum
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yes, lets not subsume other organisations into the Sororitas. Death Cult Assassins aren't anything to do with the sisters of battle other than being women.
True. In fact there’s nothing to say that all Death Cultists are women, other than the only four minis that have ever been made for them (two at 54mm scale) have been women. I’m currently working on a death cult for Inq28 that going to contain at least a couple of men
I think the severity of sisters are their black and white, fanatical views. The plainness of the sisters range is due to limited developmenty
While thats probably true, I'd personally prefer the Sisters to retain some of that plainness instead of going full bonkers like much of the rest of 40K has. A lot of the crazier elements (flayed people strapped to machines, frothing fanatics) are actually Ministorium stuff, not Sororitas stuff. And I think thats an interesting divide. The recent Celestine and her companions are a good example of the Sororitas detailed and ornate but not over the top look that they've had since the beginning. I think there's a lot of visual design room for Sisters to be ornate but somewhat understated and leave the crazy stuff to the Ministorum, where its historically always been anyways.
I always saw the SoB as being almost ethereally crisp and clean. In my head I felt like SoB would be expected to be at parade dress level 36 weeks into a campaign, after having their supply lines cut off.
Have to disagree on that. There is no "solely Sisters of Battle", really, they're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy - the two are inextricably linked in a way Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus just aren't. Without Sisters, Ecclesiarchy stuff likely doesn't even merit an ally codex, and without Ecclesiarchy stuff Sisters will end up Flanderized like Grey Knights in order to stretch out those last couple of extra units beyond the obvious ones that would be needed for a full Codex.
Putting in two or three Ecclesiarchy units and a couple of characters in a book that will still be like 80% Sisters units, called Codex: Adepta Sororitas, and have a big ol' Battle Sister on the cover would in no way prevent Sisters from being the star of the codex IMO, but it would let GW include certain types of unit without requiring Allies or stretching the SoB concept to breaking point. I mean, it's the same format the original 2nd Ed Sisters codex followed, and nobody will seriously claim they weren't the stars of that show.
They're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy. Thats the point. The Ministorium is not part of that army. We don't see Imperial Guard armies rolling around with Imperial bureaucrats and accountants, even though they're the standing army of the Imperium.
I agree that you can't claim that Sororitis weren't the stars of their original codex. But what you can claim is that GW did the bare minimum number of Sisters units and sculpts for that codex. Just 4 units and 1 character (all based on the Marine archetypes) and only 2 squads worth of models. Meanwhile they did 3 Ministorium units and two special characters (both of which got models). So Sisters have a long history of having to share their codexes with rando dudes. I guess whether you think thats a good thing or not is a matter of opinion (and if you do, thats fine). Personally, what drew me to the army is cool religious women in power armor. I don't care about the other stuff at all. I do think the Ministorium stuff would be well served by being separated so it can function as allies for other Imperial forces as well. Let it appear in an Agents book alongside Inquisitors and Assassins. Hopefully that way it will get its own attention and models, and then people who really love it will be able to enjoy it and use it as much as they want.
I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.
I also agree on not having rando-dudes in the SoB codex. Personally I would prefer it be 100% female with 0 ministorum.
There's a practical reason for this: They can't just axe the ministorum, they'll have to go somewhere if they're not in the SoB book. Them going elsewhere would mean either a Ministorum book or an IA book that has some very interesting options available to it that could result in the hodgepodge of stuff (Inq, Ministorum, etc) fleshed out into something really cool.
AdmiralHalsey wrote:
In Dawn of War Soulstorm, flyers were cancer. Not a good source.
I don't disagree
Manchu wrote:It was just an old Lightning:
Spoiler:
Ah. Wasn't aware of that model. I like it.
ERJAK wrote:
I also agree on not having rando-dudes in the SoB codex. Personally I would prefer it be 100% female with 0 ministorum.
There's a practical reason for this: They can't just axe the ministorum, they'll have to go somewhere if they're not in the SoB book. Them going elsewhere would mean either a Ministorum book or an IA book that has some very interesting options available to it that could result in the hodgepodge of stuff (Inq, Ministorum, etc) fleshed out into something really cool.
While I agree about not wanting male crusader models in the book, I wouldn't mind a male Ministorum priest and the Penitent Engine being in there. It fits the background of the army well enough, and would add more variety.
Have to disagree on that. There is no "solely Sisters of Battle", really, they're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy - the two are inextricably linked in a way Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus just aren't. Without Sisters, Ecclesiarchy stuff likely doesn't even merit an ally codex, and without Ecclesiarchy stuff Sisters will end up Flanderized like Grey Knights in order to stretch out those last couple of extra units beyond the obvious ones that would be needed for a full Codex.
Putting in two or three Ecclesiarchy units and a couple of characters in a book that will still be like 80% Sisters units, called Codex: Adepta Sororitas, and have a big ol' Battle Sister on the cover would in no way prevent Sisters from being the star of the codex IMO, but it would let GW include certain types of unit without requiring Allies or stretching the SoB concept to breaking point. I mean, it's the same format the original 2nd Ed Sisters codex followed, and nobody will seriously claim they weren't the stars of that show.
They're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy. Thats the point. The Ministorium is not part of that army. We don't see Imperial Guard armies rolling around with Imperial bureaucrats and accountants, even though they're the standing army of the Imperium.
That comparison isn't equivalent, not even remotely. Frateris, priests, Arcos etc will either be subordinate to whichever Sisters leader is in command, or they will all be subordinate to a high-ranking Priest - I know some folk don't like that reality, but that is the reality. The Sisters are part of the Ministorum, in the same way that the Missionarius Galaxia is part of it, in the same way the priesthood are part of it; they have their own command structure, but it exists within the hierarchy of the church, separating them all out into their own codices is just as bizarre to my mind as the initial Mechanicus release where GW split up their military forces from the priesthood that create and command them, which they have now thankfully fixed.
I agree that you can't claim that Sororitis weren't the stars of their original codex. But what you can claim is that GW did the bare minimum number of Sisters units and sculpts for that codex. Just 4 units and 1 character (all based on the Marine archetypes) and only 2 squads worth of models. Meanwhile they did 3 Ministorium units and two special characters (both of which got models). So Sisters have a long history of having to share their codexes with rando dudes. I guess whether you think thats a good thing or not is a matter of opinion (and if you do, thats fine). Personally, what drew me to the army is cool religious women in power armor. I don't care about the other stuff at all. I do think the Ministorium stuff would be well served by being separated so it can function as allies for other Imperial forces as well. Let it appear in an Agents book alongside Inquisitors and Assassins. Hopefully that way it will get its own attention and models, and then people who really love it will be able to enjoy it and use it as much as they want.
I strongly disagree. They're not "rando dudes", any more than Ogryns are "rando dudes" in an Imperial Guard codex, or Kroot are "rando dudes" in a Tau codex. And other Imperial armies will be able to use Ministorum stuff just as well if it's included in a Sisters codex as if it gets shunted off into "Imperial Agents" or whatever, that's the beauty of the keyword system.
I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.
Can you suggest what some might be? Because outside of more ornate Celestians and a CC alt-build for Seraphim, I can't think of terribly many that don't completely depart from the established Sisters format. Given the choice between whatever the Sisters equivalent of Centurions or the Chibihawk would end up looking like and some plastic Frateris or Arcos, I'll take the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday so long as the core Sisters range is well served.
Sisters without Ministorum would just seem weird to me. The Astra Militarum codex has entries for Ministorum priests and Crusaders. It’s hard to argue that they belong there, but they don’t belong in a Sisters army imho.
Even at the time I found it odd that the original SoB codex came with two Priest special characters with models (Redemptor Kyrinov and Uriah Jacobus), but no SoB characters with models.
AdmiralHalsey wrote:
In Dawn of War Soulstorm, flyers were cancer. Not a good source.
I don't disagree
Manchu wrote:It was just an old Lightning:
Spoiler:
Ah. Wasn't aware of that model. I like it.
ERJAK wrote:
I also agree on not having rando-dudes in the SoB codex. Personally I would prefer it be 100% female with 0 ministorum.
There's a practical reason for this: They can't just axe the ministorum, they'll have to go somewhere if they're not in the SoB book. Them going elsewhere would mean either a Ministorum book or an IA book that has some very interesting options available to it that could result in the hodgepodge of stuff (Inq, Ministorum, etc) fleshed out into something really cool.
While I agree about not wanting male crusader models in the book, I wouldn't mind a male Ministorum priest and the Penitent Engine being in there. It fits the background of the army well enough, and would add more variety.
Yeah, we get the penitent engine in the divorce thank you very much.
I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.
Can you suggest what some might be? Because outside of more ornate Celestians and a CC alt-build for Seraphim, I can't think of terribly many that don't completely depart from the established Sisters format. Given the choice between whatever the Sisters equivalent of Centurions or the Chibihawk would end up looking like and some plastic Frateris or Arcos, I'll take the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday so long as the core Sisters range is well served.
Sisters of Battle don't currently have:
Bikes
Heavy Infantry
Light Vehicles
Heavy Vehicles
Any meaningful options in the elite slot
HQs Super Heavies
Flyers
And these don't even count all the cool alt-builds you could use with Seraphim, Penitent Engines or Celestians.
Pick one and let your imagination soar!
(Side bar: No frateris militia. There's no possible way they end up not being the superior option to BSS and that would be terrible.)
The Ministorum stuff should be in the SoB codex, that is the most natural place for them, and personally I want a crazy combined crusade force with all sorts of Ecclesiarchy madness. However, there should be enough Sisters options that one can build a solid pure Sisters army if one so desired.
I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.
I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).
People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.
My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/
drbored wrote: I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.
I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).
People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.
My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/
Okay, i've avoided this thread until now, but...
That stuff hasn't been tacked on as part of C:WH, or even any of the later books. It has always been there, as someone noted just a few post back, going back to 2nd edition. 2nd had Priests, Confessors, Frateris, etc. 3rd had Redemptionists, Priests, etc. then C:WH had Inquisition plus Ministorum. Sisters have always had Ministorum in their book. This is nothing new and is unlikely to change.
Galas wrote: Ministorum stuff is as part of Sisters of Battle as Auxiliares are part of the Tau Empire.
I can understand the fear of having not enough Sisters of Battle. But I seriously doubt that will happen.
I'm sure you can see why we're concerned though, considering it literally did happen with the original release and the only time Sisters got a real update.
My hope is that since GW clearly heard us asking for Sisters of Battle, thats what they'll actually give us. But last time it was "They say they want Sisters of Battle, but we think what they really want is Priests, Inquisitors, Sword and Shield bros, dudes with no arms, Stormtroopers and Assassins".
Thats stuffs all cool in its own way, but I don't think it belongs in a Sisters codex. As other people have said, it could shine in an Imperial Agents book where it can have its own attention without taking attention away from Sisters.
I do think some Ministorium stuff has a place in a Sisters army, but I'd like to see it as options to add to Sisters, and not a focus in and of itself. By which I mean, I don't think you should ever be able to build a viable Sisters army where Ssiters are not the main componant. Priests are a good example of what I think works now and has worked in the past. They're unobtrusive and work with Sisters units (or should anyway).I don't particularly think Arco Flagellants and Crusaders have a place in a Sisters force. They're both neat ideas, but they fill roles that Repentia, Celestians or other Sisters units SHOULD be taking.
The one problem I can see with adding the Ministorum to the list would be if GW decides they need to revamp the stuff that is specifically theirs as well as the Sisters - that could delay things further, even if I'd like to see a customizable kit of faithful rabble led by a priest charging ahead as Battle Sisters lay down suppressing fire. I mean, the way the Dark Eldar codex seems to be lined up gives a decent path to pave for it too - give 4-6 Order traits, and 4-6 Ministorum traits and allow the player to either play a pure force or intermix.
I think my biggest wishlist item beyond lots of female heads though would have to be a generic Living Saint kit and a "Build a Saint" rule set.
Honestly i'd ask for and hope for as much stuff as is reasonably possible for GW to produce. Dice and a transfer sheet included. Cause once SoB get this update, don't expect another significant model release for them for another 10-20 years. I'd rather get everything we have now in plastic than get anything new at the cost of current things as well.
I still don't understand why people want MORE books to buy. If it were up to me all marines would be one codex, grey knights and deathwatch would get rolled into inquisition etc...
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Lore wise, the Ministorum are not a bolt on to the Sisters, it’s the other way round. The Adepta Sororitas are a division of the Ministorum.
But the Ministorium isn't an army. The army is Sisters of Battle. Just like we don't have Codex Imperial Bureaucracy, Codex Craftworld Council of Elders, Codex Gooey Tyranid Hivemind and Codex Tua Politics. 40K is about the armies, not about the organizations behind them.
The Ministoruim should mostly be represented on the table by their actual army, the Adepta Sororitas. At least thats how I feel. If theres going to be a non-Sisters Ministorium presence in the codex/army I think it should be small and unobtrusive.
I know not everyone agrees with that, and thats fine. Thats just how I feel. But I'm guessing we have people wanting three different things in this army:
- All Sisters of Battle with no or very few non-Sisters units/models.
- A mix of Sisters of Battle and Ministorium units/models, where the Ministorium stuff makes up a large part of the army
- A lot of Ministorium units'models, with the ability to make an army thats mostly or all Ministorium.
I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting any of those options, but I do think all three would be best served by separating Ministorium into its own list (that would hopefully see its own model support in the future). That said, I expect that if we're going to see a full codex and more than 2 or 3 kits there will be a fair amount of Ministorium in there. Like it or not, GW has a history of throwing in as many odds and ends priests and whatnot into Sisters as they can manage. It also may be that they see an all female line as too big of a rish (although they did just give AoS a while snake woman army).
Crazyterran wrote: I feel like codex: Imperial Bureaucracy would be super OP. Armies would be crushed under 2000 pts of requisition forms and pointless decrees.
After listing those armies they did all the sudden start to sound fun.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Lore wise, the Ministorum are not a bolt on to the Sisters, it’s the other way round. The Adepta Sororitas are a division of the Ministorum.
But the Ministorium isn't an army. The army is Sisters of Battle. Just like we don't have Codex Imperial Bureaucracy, Codex Craftworld Council of Elders, Codex Gooey Tyranid Hivemind and Codex Tua Politics. 40K is about the armies, not about the organizations behind them.
The Ministoruim should mostly be represented on the table by their actual army, the Adepta Sororitas. At least thats how I feel. If theres going to be a non-Sisters Ministorium presence in the codex/army I think it should be small and unobtrusive.
I know not everyone agrees with that, and thats fine. Thats just how I feel. But I'm guessing we have people wanting three different things in this army:
- All Sisters of Battle with no or very few non-Sisters units/models.
- A mix of Sisters of Battle and Ministorium units/models, where the Ministorium stuff makes up a large part of the army
- A lot of Ministorium units'models, with the ability to make an army thats mostly or all Ministorium.
I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting any of those options, but I do think all three would be best served by separating Ministorium into its own list (that would hopefully see its own model support in the future). That said, I expect that if we're going to see a full codex and more than 2 or 3 kits there will be a fair amount of Ministorium in there. Like it or not, GW has a history of throwing in as many odds and ends priests and whatnot into Sisters as they can manage. It also may be that they see an all female line as too big of a rish (although they did just give AoS a while snake woman army).
It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.
And TBH, I've not seen anyone asking for the latter two options, just lots of people who disagree with you that including the Ministorum units that have always been part of Sisters lists in one form or another means they would no longer fit the first definition.
Again, lets look at Tau. The 8th Tau 'dex has five non-Tau units. Now, lets say the new Sisters book had Arcos(new models), Frateris(no models, book tells you to buy Cawdor or mix & match), Penitent Engine(new model), a Thousand Sons-style multipack of Priest characters, and maybe Jacobus(or generic "big hairy preacher") and Kyrinov. Two small infantry kits, one vehicle kit, two clampacks. Six unit entries. So in your eyes, are Tau not the stars of their own show? I mean the five entries thing is actually deceptive, four of those are actual proper units, only one is a character.
Plus if we assume that this is a proper Dark Eldar-style range revamp(which is more likely than them spending a year+ hyping people before dropping a mini-release like GSC or the first round of Skitarii), using up two or three half-size sprues, two clampack sprues, and a set of vehicle sprues isn't going to put a big enough dent in the allocation to prevent us getting all the present Sisters units in plastic probably with a couple of new alt-build units as well.
If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.
I agree with most of that - although the Sisters are there both to police the Church and protect it - they take orders from the Church as long as it does not conflict with the two.
They can execute clergy of pretty much any rank if they feel it is warranted and they can justify it.
Personally I am happy to have elements of the Church proper in the Codex - Priests, Militia, even be happy to have a proper Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor page instead of what we have at the moment.
Then again we do not have the Thralls that many Chapters use as a fighting force - esp on the ships. Hospitilar should also really be an option for Guard.
Although also It will depend if they call it Codex: Adepta Sorortas or Codex: Ministorium.
I am hoping we have something to do with Tech Support for Sisters as that's never been discussed - even if its just in the fluff.
I do agree with others that having only one actual AS character is poor and she is a Saint so a living one would be good.
It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.
Apparently you don't think they're equivalent, but I think there are a lot of similarities. While the Sororita are part of the Ministorium, they are a distinct part and fairly separate, with their own purpose and hierarchy. They sometimes mesh, but they don't have to. My point was that the Sororitas are a distinct military organization, much like the Imperial Guard. The other aspects of the Ministorium might sometimes involve themselves with the Sororitas, but aren't part of it. I'd like to see a force that more squarely focuses on the actual Sisters of Battle
And TBH, I've not seen anyone asking for the latter two options, just lots of people who disagree with you that including the Ministorum units that have always been part of Sisters lists in one form or another means they would no longer fit the first definition.
I have seen a fair amount of people talking about the other two options, both in this and other threads here on Dakka since the release news. And there are several people in this thread who have also said they're not really excited about seeing Ministorium units return, or if they do that they'd rather see them return in a minimal way.
If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.
i really do only want to collect Sisters. I think I've made that clear. My posts have been about my hope that this new release veers towards Sisters and away from Ministorium. Its fine that we don't agree and that you want something else. I'm sorry that my wishlisting for something I'm interested in and excited about and been waiting a decade and a half for has you so bent out of shape. How about you just put me on ignore instead of berating me for talking about what I'm hoping from this release?
drbored wrote: I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.
I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).
People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.
My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/
What you're afraid of isn't Ecclesiarchy stuff in an Ecclesiarchy army, it's that GW can't write rules to save their lives. Bob or GTFO mentality isn't a fix for that. They are well capable of writing a sucky codex with nothing but Sisters in it.
I'd be happy to see an option for the Priest alongside the sisters. This feels perfectly fitting, and I'm fairly sure the sisters would be fine with, and regularly need, a priest to tend to their needs of faith, just the same as in the IG.
What I'd also like to see is a HQ Option for a Heretitcus Inquisitor, so one has the option to field them as an attached inquisitorial force, or a pure sisters force.
I quite like Penitent Engines, too. Whose to say that's not a Repentia in there?
Otherwise I'd happily pass on everything else. They can all be allied in, if needs be. With an Inquisitor HQ, you could make quite the Inquisition list using Scions + Assassins + Sisters, but you'd have the option to run pure sisters, and the codex wouldn't be over-run by other options creating poor internal balence. Plus the priest doesn't need a new kit, particularly. So just a WH Inquisitor Kit, a Penitent Engine kit, and the essential 2/3 sisters kits.
I'm also on the "PLASTIC CUSTOM SAINT TRAIN." Pls.
I'm sure if they have mutated extra strong knees and bent backs for marathon prayer sessions then they will get along just fine
tbh I can see mutants being extra religious to atone for their sinful bodies and wanting to fight for justice in the Emperor's name more than a normie would!
I'm sure if they have mutated extra strong knees and bent backs for marathon prayer sessions then they will get along just fine
tbh I can see mutants being extra religious to atone for their sinful bodies and wanting to fight for justice in the Emperor's name more than a normie would!
I love the idea. The first thing they should to to show how extra pious they are is to set themselves on fire.
It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.
Apparently you don't think they're equivalent, but I think there are a lot of similarities. While the Sororita are part of the Ministorium, they are a distinct part and fairly separate, with their own purpose and hierarchy. They sometimes mesh, but they don't have to. My point was that the Sororitas are a distinct military organization, much like the Imperial Guard. The other aspects of the Ministorium might sometimes involve themselves with the Sororitas, but aren't part of it. I'd like to see a force that more squarely focuses on the actual Sisters of Battle
No, I don't think they're not equivalent, they aren't equivalent, nor are they similar. An Administratum bureaucrat does not have the power to take command of a force of Imperial Guard, they are not part of the same command structure as Imperial Guard, nor can the Imperial Guard assume command over them. Sisters are, outside of very specific circumstances, part of and subordinate to the overall church hierarchy in exactly the same way as everyone from a common street preacher all the way up to the top - if a Palatine tells a common preacher and their Frateris rabble to go there and shoot that, they do it, and if a Cardinal tells a Palatine and her Sisters to go there and shoot that, they do it. In matters of war the two are not separable, and even otherwise they're far more closely linked than you're suggesting.
If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.
i really do only want to collect Sisters. I think I've made that clear. My posts have been about my hope that this new release veers towards Sisters and away from Ministorium. Its fine that we don't agree and that you want something else. I'm sorry that my wishlisting for something I'm interested in and excited about and been waiting a decade and a half for has you so bent out of shape. How about you just put me on ignore instead of berating me for talking about what I'm hoping from this release?
You seem to be reading a level of emotion into my posts that simply isn't there, and there's a difference between merely presenting a preference and presenting an argument to support that preference having some merit beyond mere opinion.
I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
This is what we officially have from GW:
Yup, plastic Sisters of Battle are on their way. For reals.
Emperor willing, the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas will be ready to take the fight to the renegade, the heretic and the unbeliever in 2019.
Now of course there is precious little chance of GW having a major model release for an army not already covered in a codex, possibly with a number of new kits that don't yet have rules at all, not also getting a shiny new codex to go with it. But, officially, we have no word of that.
I for one hope to see the sisters expanded and get new units- in particular:
Artillery. These can be crewed weapons like the rapier or heavier guns like crewed mortars with a gothic theme. A kind of rocket trebuchet would be cool, but the sisters crewing their own flame-based artillery and burning down the fortresses of the heretics fills an important holy crusader aesthetic.
HQ retinue expansion- a dark eldar style retinue or IG style command squad full of unique sisters- sisters hospitaller, dialogus etc- maybe someone trained to spot heresy or who had served with the inquisition and has forbidden insights, historian types who catalog the actions of the righteous and can call on specific examples or tactics.
Expanding Seraphim- either additional weapons options or new tactics/strategems/acts
Elites- Celestians with rosarius and combiweapons, pallisades?(shooty, not cc 2+4++) Imagine a unit of hardened veterans with the entire treasury of the ministorum emptied to buy their armour and gear- what would they have? Heavybolters with special ammunition, suspensors? Heavy flamers with blessed fuel?
Spotter sister for organ gun/artillery- similar to IG master of ordinnace/AoS engineer guy
Centerpiece altar/shrine/siege engine vehicle- monolith/landraider style, provides passive bonuses and active stuff like additional CP/acts of faith
I think everyone will agree that the focus should be on the actual Sisters units both model and rules wise. I just wish some Ministorum stuff is included as well, like it has been since their very first codex.
I'm just happy to get more models - my regular sister squads are tired of me taking their special weapons to form Dominions.
And I don't mind a mix of other Ministorum types in the army as well. I picture the SoB as a church army with the Sisters as the stars. Hopefully we'll at least get Frateris Militia again (or even Redemptionists - my 50+ robed religious nutcases haven't really had a job since the 2001 Chapter Approved army list stopped being legal).
Galas wrote: I would like for a female priest model, just like the penitent engine has male and female variant.
They may change the fluff in the next codex but the priesthood is currently exclusively male. Both the 2nd edition sister of battle codex (page 33) and the 6th edition Scoin codex said that the most faithful male students from the Schola Progenium join the priesthood while the most faithful females join the sisterhood.
I think if we get a new priest model it will be based on the artwork which appeared in the gathering storm book and imperial agent codex from 2017. He always stood out to me as GW tend to base their artwork on models yet they completely redesigned the priest in these two books.
Galas wrote: I could link here some short comics of Flick the Thief about that same theme but they aren't appropriate for this forum.
Right, please don't. But rest assured I have seen some of them and it's not quite what I had in mind.
Although the Schola clearly isn't a good basis to discuss what belongs in a Sisters book, it does remind me of the "non-militant" Adepta Sororitas orders and I wonder if they could be represented on the table as a unit rather than as a individual characters.
I want all the sororitas options and as many Ministorum options as they see fit the give us. I also hope that they can balance the army in such a way that it’s playable with only Sisters if that’s what people want.
It’s fine if some people only want to collect Sisters. Personally I want to be able to make a full on crazy Ministorum army with Sisters, Arcos, priests, penitents, crusaders, the works.
The only issue I have with the people saying that they hope there are only Sisters and no Ministorum in the codex, is that it can sometimes come across as, “I hope you don’t get what you want”. I’m certain it’s never intended that way though.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: it can sometimes come across as, “I hope you don’t get what you want”
It's more like, this is such a potentially fragile thing that it's not clear if anyone will get what they want. This kind of goes back to why this "announcement" left me cold.
I think it would be neat if they did something really unique with the Penitent Engine kit. Specifically, have it build either two PEs with options or one larger centauroid walker with multiple “crew” and extra arms etc.
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
SoB in plastic 2019 "emperor willing" and beta codex rules in chapter approved 2018
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
SoB in plastic 2019 "emperor willing" and beta codex rules in chapter approved 2018
That's all we got. Everything in this topic is just speculation and wishlisting trying to milk those few notices into something meaningful. I can say that they did put a big emphasis in their trailer on 'Plastic Sisters of Battle'. Not 'plastic ministorum' or 'plastic ecclesiarchy'.
Beta rules in Chapter Approved also makes it sound like the release of the Codex might be much later in 2019, latter half at least. That would give people enough time to playtest the codex and give feedback for the final print. I doubt it would be a beta codex in December followed by the print release in January or even February. That stuff takes time to manufacture too.
However... that does make me think, if we have beta rules, how are we supposed to use them without models? Are we to use the models that we have? That would imply that the Sisters would be getting updates to existing models rather than anything new. Unless GW releases the models early in 2019 for us to use and then holds off on the Codex until it's complete...
I think "beta codex" could mean "we don't want to print a real codex but we said something about getting a book out for every army by the end of 2018," i.e., just an update for 8e rather than some kind of open playtest for the actual dex coming out sometime in 2019, Emperor willing.
Manchu wrote: I think "beta codex" could mean "we don't want to print a real codex but we said something about getting a book out for every army by the end of 2018," i.e., just an update for 8e rather than some kind of open playtest for the actual dex coming out sometime in 2019, Emperor willing.
Yeah, I could see them pulling this, and then not printing the codex or having the models ready till the very butt end of 2019.
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
This is what we officially have from GW:
Yup, plastic Sisters of Battle are on their way. For reals.
Emperor willing, the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas will be ready to take the fight to the renegade, the heretic and the unbeliever in 2019.
Now of course there is precious little chance of GW having a major model release for an army not already covered in a codex, possibly with a number of new kits that don't yet have rules at all, not also getting a shiny new codex to go with it. But, officially, we have no word of that.
I see people typing “Ministorium” and “Ministorum.”
Which is it? I go crazy over important stuff like this.
Ministorum.
This is actually not entirely true. While their official statement on warhammer community may have been sparse in the official studio preview at Adepticon they covered that the SoB
Will be receiving plastic kits.
That the development of those kits will be transparent i.e. they will be doing update posts as the design process comes along
That a beta version of the codex will be included in this year's chapter approved(obviously exluding new units).
Source: Was there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: I think "beta codex" could mean "we don't want to print a real codex but we said something about getting a book out for every army by the end of 2018," i.e., just an update for 8e rather than some kind of open playtest for the actual dex coming out sometime in 2019, Emperor willing.
The impression I got was that until the Community survey they had no goddamned idea what they were going to do with SoB and then literally tens of thousands of people all said 'plastic sisters pls' and they were like 'well okay then!'
drbored wrote: Everything in this topic is just speculation and wishlisting trying to milk those few notices into something meaningful.
Yes, 'cause Emperor forbid people discuss something they're excited about.
drbored wrote: I can say that they did put a big emphasis in their trailer on 'Plastic Sisters of Battle'. Not 'plastic ministorum' or 'plastic ecclesiarchy'.
Oh get over it. Ecclesiarchy units are part of the Sisters of Battle army. It's been that way pretty much since their inception.
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
SoB in plastic 2019 "emperor willing" and beta codex rules in chapter approved 2018
That's all we got. Everything in this topic is just speculation and wishlisting trying to milk those few notices into something meaningful. I can say that they did put a big emphasis in their trailer on 'Plastic Sisters of Battle'. Not 'plastic ministorum' or 'plastic ecclesiarchy'.
Beta rules in Chapter Approved also makes it sound like the release of the Codex might be much later in 2019, latter half at least. That would give people enough time to playtest the codex and give feedback for the final print. I doubt it would be a beta codex in December followed by the print release in January or even February. That stuff takes time to manufacture too.
However... that does make me think, if we have beta rules, how are we supposed to use them without models? Are we to use the models that we have? That would imply that the Sisters would be getting updates to existing models rather than anything new. Unless GW releases the models early in 2019 for us to use and then holds off on the Codex until it's complete...
What do you guys think?
"Beta" rules doesn't mean a damn thing. Now I'm not expecting Sisters early in 2019, which would technically give them time to address feedback, but I have my doubts that GW will have any meaningful open playtest. I expect WIP rules at the stage they were when the deadline for Chapter Approved hit, nothing more.
We'll also have to see just how open they are about the whole transparent design thing. They might just show redone old designs until very late in the process and give us "beta" rules for units we already know, with no mention of new units so as not to give their competition a head start,
Remember, until GW proves they do things differently, they ain't.
But who knows. Maybe they'll surprise us. Emperor willing.
ritualnet wrote: I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?
This is what we officially have from GW:
Yup, plastic Sisters of Battle are on their way. For reals.
Emperor willing, the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas will be ready to take the fight to the renegade, the heretic and the unbeliever in 2019.
Now of course there is precious little chance of GW having a major model release for an army not already covered in a codex, possibly with a number of new kits that don't yet have rules at all, not also getting a shiny new codex to go with it. But, officially, we have no word of that.
I see people typing “Ministorium” and “Ministorum.”
Which is it? I go crazy over important stuff like this.
Ministorum.
This is actually not entirely true. While their official statement on warhammer community may have been sparse in the official studio preview at Adepticon they covered that the SoB
Will be receiving plastic kits.
That the development of those kits will be transparent i.e. they will be doing update posts as the design process comes along
That a beta version of the codex will be included in this year's chapter approved(obviously exluding new units).
drbored wrote: I can say that they did put a big emphasis in their trailer on 'Plastic Sisters of Battle'. Not 'plastic ministorum' or 'plastic ecclesiarchy'.
Oh get over it. Ecclesiarchy units are part of the Sisters of Battle army. It's been that way pretty much since their inception.
Agreed. It may change, but Adepta Sororitas minis are currently found in the Adeptus Ministorum section of GW’s website.
.
