Virules wrote:
What are the chances that tomorrow announces pre-order coming up for Engine War?

Also, still no news on final May preview to show off remaining Adepticon announcements?

To be fair I expect gw to start with the pre-orders that where put on hold at the beginning of corona, so until they're up for pre-orders I don'expect anything new. And personaly I expect that pre-orders start a bit after the factories have started running again

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't going to get released until they can open up their stores.

Their stores are open in most major markets.

Except, y'know, the one they are based in

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't going to get released until they can open up their stores.

Their stores are open in most major markets.

Not in their home market yet, the aim for UK stores opening is July-ish, so that might be the very earliest. Given the English (since the rest of Britain are taking a different stance) response so far, I feel like it might take longer than that.

They've pretty much shipped out all the saga of the beast backlog already, anyone I know that bought from a third party had their order fulfilled, all the social sites that the 3rd parties communicate on have since received massive shipments from GW to restock everyone.

If we're assuming that everything is all already manufactured and sitting in warehouses then I don't see what the difference is other than the opportunity to market it to everyone.

I guess there's a significant portion of people that don't order online and they could be waiting for the physical shops to open sure. But as mentioned if they're waiting for the go-ahead from the UK government for the GW stores to open they'll be waiting a LONG time to make anything out of that warehouse space.

Maybe they're just banking on sales of hobby supplies to get them through June?

They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

The Swooping Hawks seem inferior in almost every way that actually matters. Sure they move an extra 2" and have an extra +2 Ld, but these Pteraxii get all +1S, +1W, +1A. Their weapons get 1 extra shot and their grenade packs do MW on 5+ vs. Hawks' 6+ and have an extra +2 to the roll against vehicles, so 3+ vs. vehicles.

That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

More like, hey DE you like that 1CP strat eviscerating flyby, well admech get it as a special rule, but also it is just plain better verse vehicles. On a unit that looks no more bulky then a hellion yet has 2 wounds, better save, combat and ranged fire lmao.

It's fething sweet for admech players, not hating on it at all, just really wish they could apply rules like this to other factions with garbage units.

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

At the least there should have been more of a meaningful tradeoff in return for some of their capabilities instead of being nearly all round better. Right now the only even semi-weakness is maybe trying to force them to fail Morale and melt away?

pm713 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Hey, so how are we going to make this new flying infantry unit with an anti-light infantry weapon distinct from swooping hawks?"

"Uhhh I dunno, probably let's just make them exactly the same but 1 extra shot because new kit lolololol."

Flamer pteraxi and the fire breathing doglads seem extremely stronk.

It leaves me feeling like they're going to be Hawks but better which is awful.

Well well well. Sometimes being right is very unsatisfying.

I wonder how many releases they have queued with those abysmal flight stands before the feedback as to how bad they are gets through.

Or do they just not care?

Iracundus wrote:

Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

AdMech lost their one and only grenade unit(Ruststalkers with transonic razor and chordclaws) when 8th dropped. This is the first time in 8th we've gotten grenades available to us. We also knew from the outset these units were Sicarian(meaning 2W).

At the least there should have been more of a meaningful tradeoff in return for some of their capabilities instead of being nearly all round better. Right now the only even semi-weakness is maybe trying to force them to fail Morale and melt away?

Right now the tradeoff seems to be that those grenades are tied to the unit that doesn't want to be in combat. There's also no mention of holding them in reserve for deep strike or anything.

They look tougher than Helions in every visual and lore way I can see. The +1 W is very intuitiv as they are more machine than man, any damaged parts are cut of from the system and they will be forced to fight until they either die or the battle is over. What doesnt make sense is their abysmal leadership in 8th, oh and the abundance of stubbers.

The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

Well Sicarians are kinda baby Primaris with longer legs, and Primaris were released much later

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

Eh, in all honesty if they're anything like sicarians, they'll just be a glass cannon.

I'm betting that the not-hawks will be utter crap tier, because they'll never get to use the power budget shifted into their flyby attack, and the flamer ones will be low to mid tier and extremely dependent on getting into combat to make their points back, which they'll have to do with no native charge range buffs.

I could be wrong, and they could be super underpriced, but Admech has a ton of supremely terrible, supremely expensive elite infantry with gakky defenses and super high point costs.

In actual operation the flamer pteraxi will probably operate like a more expensive flamer of tzeentch with no invuln save and T3 instead of T4. And flamers of tzeentch are hardly anywhere near OP.

The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

3-4 mortal wounds is something that's probably gonna be more expensive and overall not worth it. Unless GW makes them fairly underpriced (which to be fair they might) they are a one trick pony. Flamer dudes can be super aggressive which I'm definitely thinking is more necessary for the army. Without doing mortal wounds the Flechette guys are just another high RoF unit, and we got that in spades.

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

the_scotsman wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

You are right, but we every bit against vehicles counts, or we build lists like the Skorpius spam that kills hordes and ties everything else that we cant kill up in melee xd.

Skitarii in general and Sicarians especially need their 5+++ and LD back, otherwise they will remain as expensive cannonfodder.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

It's explained in the article. Also, the Talons give you +1S if charging or heroic intervention.

the_scotsman wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

It's. 66 per model in the squad, not to mention will GW kindly stop handing out MW like candy FFS it's making armour saves and invulnerable saves meaningless and perpetuating the cycle from invulnerable or Bust to now FNP or bust.

They're either going to be rediculous bordering on OP or they are going to be an insaine amount of PPM like they have to be over 20ppm closer to 30 ppm or more thr way they have stacked rules right now.

EDIT

Iracundus wrote:
Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

If it happens intra-Imperium, intra-xenos, imperium to xenos and xenos to imperium, then how is the imperium part relevant?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

If it happens intra-Imperium, intra-xenos, imperium to xenos and xenos to imperium, then how is the imperium part relevant?

The Imperium borrowing rules or concepts from xenos armies and one upping them seemingly far more often than xenos borrowing rules or concepts from the Imperium. The sheer number of Imperial options also then means the potential for unforeseen (by GW) synergies to emerge.

That seems like what would naturally occur given the relative numbers of releases.

As a Sisters player, a bit jealous Ad Mech flamers get AP-1 12 inch range no cover...but you do you Ad Mech. I'll settle that jealousy on the tabletop with a newfound envy. Love the challenge. Suppose all said and done, the points cost will be the nail, or lack thereof, in the coffin.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
As a Sisters player, a bit jealous Ad Mech flamers get AP-1 12 inch range no cover...but you do you Ad Mech. I'll settle that jealousy on the tabletop with a newfound envy. Love the challenge. Suppose all said and done, the points cost will be the nail, or lack thereof, in the coffin.

Yeah, kinda mad my Salamanders(ya know, the guys who kinda are known for flame & burning gak) dont get bonus to flamers.

But I am happy about the sterylizors, my Metallica are sending out sensory augurs, calculating best possible use for tactical scenarios. Just not sure if I'll run them as I feel Sulphurhounds fill the gaps in my Maniple. Will buy & paint some Sterylizors cuz the models kick ass no matter what.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah, kinda mad my Salamanders(ya know, the guys who kinda are known for flame & burning gak) dont get bonus to flamers.

You still get stronger flame weapons than Sisters. Our strongest flamethrower weapons are twin-linked heavy-flamers with a 12" range. You get the big flamer lander raider thingy, and the big flamer predator thingy, don't remember the names.

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

More like, hey DE you like that 1CP strat eviscerating flyby, well admech get it as a special rule, but also it is just plain better verse vehicles. On a unit that looks no more bulky then a hellion yet has 2 wounds, better save, combat and ranged fire lmao.

It's fething sweet for admech players, not hating on it at all, just really wish they could apply rules like this to other factions with garbage units.

Keep in mind for DE it's a 6+ and only a 5+ versus infantry. The only time our mortal wounds are on even ground with this is against infantry and if I recall we have to advance over a unit to get it. This means unless you take red grief (which nobody does anymore) you have to give up attacking in melee and even without that only bikes armed with blasters or heat lances can shoot if you do this and it's at -1 to hit.

I'm kinda used to this bs as dark eldar now. Admech players complain about loss of grenades or something. Dark eldar had like 5 special characters, trueborn and bloodbrides all get axed off for no real reason. People actually liked trueborn as they were like scourge but not so fragile. Our scourge suicide units don't work for anti tank as monsters and tanks are really durable now. Also scourge are mercenaries and don't get sub faction boosts because of that. I can't tell you how much I wanted to boost scourge with something but now they're just shelved. Hellions don't even get stats similar to these jump pack infantry admech get as far as wounds and toughness go.

I'm starting to feel like when new units are concerned DE are the new sisters of battle. They give nice new units to eldar and several methods of movement boosts for their leaders. Meanwhile archons got nerfed into the ground and our heroes can't get anywhere without a raider or venom and when they are in said transports none of their buff abilities work and their guns suck now. Incubi didn't get any new weapon options, skills or anything but new models. Don't get me wrong a new model is cool but when eldar get psychic flyers with super strong flamers, wraithguard with more weapon options, wraith knights, shooty bikes with a special weapon per bike and a far more diverse forge world list I can tell we are in ways the red headed step child in eldar terms.

I suppose that previous paragraph was off topic but I had some rage to empty.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
As a Sisters player, a bit jealous Ad Mech flamers get AP-1 12 inch range no cover...but you do you Ad Mech. I'll settle that jealousy on the tabletop with a newfound envy. Love the challenge. Suppose all said and done, the points cost will be the nail, or lack thereof, in the coffin.

Yeah, kinda mad my Salamanders(ya know, the guys who kinda are known for flame & burning gak) dont get bonus to flamers.

But I am happy about the sterylizors, my Metallica are sending out sensory augurs, calculating best possible use for tactical scenarios. Just not sure if I'll run them as I feel Sulphurhounds fill the gaps in my Maniple. Will buy & paint some Sterylizors cuz the models kick ass no matter what.

Salamanders dont get special rules to buff their flamers?

Excuse me?

Those Sterylizors do have some nice stats/weapon stats. Be real handy in Cities of Death games especially, or even just if people play with dense terrain.

Would it be reasonable to guess we would get rules for these guys in Kill Team at some point in the future too?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah, kinda mad my Salamanders(ya know, the guys who kinda are known for flame & burning gak) dont get bonus to flamers.

You still get stronger flame weapons than Sisters. Our strongest flamethrower weapons are twin-linked heavy-flamers with a 12" range. You get the big flamer lander raider thingy, and the big flamer predator thingy, don't remember the names.

For me I always got the narrative feel that Sisters' flamers are not particularly better, just more plentiful and their users more proficient. Verses Salamanders where the users are not only highly proficient in using them but also in the maintenance/craftwork side of the weapon as well to make better weapons wielded by more proficient users. While the AdMech, who are often involved in manufacturing these weapons for said factions anyways, may have unusual more powerful versions of weapons but lack the same user-skill the other two may display.

Sisters: Quantity & Proficiency
Sallys: Quality & Proficiency
AdMech: Quality

Just how I see things in very watered-down terms.

thing is, the Deimos Infernus Pred for having basically the largest flamer that isnt on a Super-Heavy, only has 8" range. I'm not asking for everything to be 12", but all Salamanders flamers(except hand flamer)having 9" range and minus the ignore cover would be very fluffy and not too overpowered. You should always think twice about charging a Salamander armed with a flamer.

So having one strat that bluffs flamers and one unit that isnt very Salamandery(invictor) with a flamer.

But back on topic, I still think the Raiders/Sulphurhounds are gonna have a little more versatility over the Pteraxii.

Although it doesn't really matter where flamers are concerned, the proficiency argument kind of breaks down when you realize that your average Salamander, Sister, and the Pteraxii all have the same ballistic skill.

EDIT: NVM off-topic

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

Whilst that is pretty absurd and doesn't help the game that much (oh joy, more dice to roll and slow things down, and more killing power in a game that has problems with balancing that), they are shorter ranged than their imperial counterpart.
So tactically speaking, you can just avoid it by gunning them down before you advance...unless you are playing a faction that deals most of your damage in the 24" range bracket. Then you're screwed.

The way I see it, these new units will be in the 75-85 point range, keeping them in line with/making the slightly more expensive than the current cost of Infiltrators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come out at the same points cost as Infiltrators.

It is going to be interesting to see how admech appear on the table once all these releases are complete. I have the feeling that it is going to make a lot of people very salty when they start to compare the units to existing ones.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

Whilst that is pretty absurd and doesn't help the game that much (oh joy, more dice to roll and slow things down, and more killing power in a game that has problems with balancing that), they are shorter ranged than their imperial counterpart.
So tactically speaking, you can just avoid it by gunning them down before you advance...unless you are playing a faction that deals most of your damage in the 24" range bracket. Then you're screwed.

I'd say it's more like an assault cannon with more shots cus reasons. They do also have access to heavy bolters if you want 'em.

....no, I'm not salty that my Thousand Sons got the exact same weapon a full edition before havocs, with the exact same statline with AP-2 like every rubric weapon in existence, except that it has 1/2 the shots of the bs new Havoc weapon.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

Whilst that is pretty absurd and doesn't help the game that much (oh joy, more dice to roll and slow things down, and more killing power in a game that has problems with balancing that), they are shorter ranged than their imperial counterpart.
So tactically speaking, you can just avoid it by gunning them down before you advance...unless you are playing a faction that deals most of your damage in the 24" range bracket. Then you're screwed.

They are basically 30" range(24"+movement at no penalty). Plenty enough. Longer than that LOS starts to become issue anyway.

Kdash wrote:
The way I see it, these new units will be in the 75-85 point range, keeping them in line with/making the slightly more expensive than the current cost of Infiltrators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come out at the same points cost as Infiltrators.

It is going to be interesting to see how admech appear on the table once all these releases are complete. I have the feeling that it is going to make a lot of people very salty when they start to compare the units to existing ones.

If it's a minum of 5 models for that price these things are going to be spammed hard I suspect, comparing them to a number of similar models they are worth more than 20 points each easily.

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if it were 25ppm for the Flamer dudes. A big block of 10 dishing out 9d6 -1AP autohits that ignore cover, then the capacity to deal some hurt in melee as well would be pretty insane at much less.

75-85pts would be a steal, even ignoring their melee capabilities. They've got better than average guns & 2 wounds.

I'd honestly be suprised if the unit doesn't cost over 100pts.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
75-85pts would be a steal, even ignoring their melee capabilities. They've got better than average guns & 2 wounds.

I'd honestly be suprised if the unit doesn't cost over 100pts.

It looks like the guys with the flechette carbines don’t have the melee ability. Their feet don’t have the large blade and piston that the Flamer ones have. So that’s interesting and may make the flechette guys quite cheap.

I like that GW finally remembered that flamer weapons are supposed to ignore cover.
That's been bothering me throughout 8th ed. Hopefully they'll go through and update all over flamer-type weapons to ignore cover.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


I like that GW finally remembered that flamer weapons are supposed to ignore cover.
That's been bothering me throughout 8th ed. Hopefully they'll go through and update all over flamer-type weapons to ignore cover.

Don't hold your breath. This weapon ignores cover because Phosphor weapons always ignore cover.

Range 8" or less, S4 or less flamers are nearly unused in 8th. When they changed the Daemon unit Flamers (not to be confused with the gun) to 12" it made them substantially better. It is very GW to not go back and fix all existing flamers while making every new flamer style weapon good.

All these amazing mortal wound on fly over units and you've forgotten the greatest of them all... The Screamer. 1 dice per model and you just need a 6 to do a wound. They've even future proofed the rule which says you need to roll a 6, so if they get a +1 to the roll 7s will fail and they still only do a mortal 17% of the time!

Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

The more I look at it the more angry I get. Which may be irrational - but a unit of 10 moving over a vehicle is on to do 6-7 mortal wounds? What on earth are you thinking, are you even thinking at all?

Why on earth does a unit with 12" -1 AP flamers "also" throw out 3 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee? Very likely with deep strike because flying?

Tyel wrote:
Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

The more I look at it the more angry I get. Which may be irrational - but a unit of 10 moving over a vehicle is on to do 6-7 mortal wounds? What on earth are you thinking, are you even thinking at all?

Why on earth does a unit with 12" -1 AP flamers "also" throw out 3 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee? Very likely with deep strike because flying?

In practicality they wont use their melee much, especially the grenades. They die really fast and are glasscannons. If they deepstrike they wont move over any unit and melee is very unlikely. Putting them in a transport is not really worth it. They are already fast and you can put slow killy units in it.

I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

 0XFallen wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

The more I look at it the more angry I get. Which may be irrational - but a unit of 10 moving over a vehicle is on to do 6-7 mortal wounds? What on earth are you thinking, are you even thinking at all?

Why on earth does a unit with 12" -1 AP flamers "also" throw out 3 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee? Very likely with deep strike because flying?

In practicality they wont use their melee much, especially the grenades. They die really fast and are glasscannons. If they deepstrike they wont move over any unit and melee is very unlikely. Putting them in a transport is not really worth it. They are already fast and you can put slow killy units in it.

The rules are split between two different loadouts but with 5 shot horde clearing weapons and 3+ for a MW per model against vehicals 5+vrs everything else these units are starting to seem like they are going to need a high points cost to not be rediculous as they aren't exactly a pushover to kill with 2W and almost always decieding what they charge and fly charging is probably a good idea for wrap and trap to keep them alive.

Ice_can wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

The more I look at it the more angry I get. Which may be irrational - but a unit of 10 moving over a vehicle is on to do 6-7 mortal wounds? What on earth are you thinking, are you even thinking at all?

Why on earth does a unit with 12" -1 AP flamers "also" throw out 3 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee? Very likely with deep strike because flying?

In practicality they wont use their melee much, especially the grenades. They die really fast and are glasscannons. If they deepstrike they wont move over any unit and melee is very unlikely. Putting them in a transport is not really worth it. They are already fast and you can put slow killy units in it.

The rules are split between two different loadouts but with 5 shot horde clearing weapons and 3+ for a MW per model against vehicals 5+vrs everything else these units are starting to seem like they are going to need a high points cost to not be rediculous as they aren't exactly a pushover to kill with 2W and almost always decieding what they charge and fly charging is probably a good idea for wrap and trap to keep them alive.

That grenade rule difference from Swooping Hawks is huge. Hawks roll a number of dice based on the target unit (limit of up to the Hawks' model count) so a single vehicle is only going to take a single MW on a single roll of 6.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a unit with a jump pack not get some kind of deep strike rule.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a unit with a jump pack not get some kind of deep strike rule.

Oh yeah? I checked!

And you're right. 2W, 2A, 12 inch flamers that ignore cover, and deep strike. *Looks at raptors*

These things better be expensive.

Tyel wrote:
Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

It really bothers me that 8th edition has gotten to the point that a 10 man unit (yeah, unit size assumption, but...) can generate 50 shots. And if they do indeed deep strike, its functionally unstoppable, and then they pew-pew enemies into submission. Not from the strength 3 shots, but from the unending dice rolls.

And once you factor in rerolls and the hit/wound/save system... maybe its me, but given that there are probably a couple dozen units on the table, if resolving a single unit's actions for the turn can result in rolling (including rerolls) more than a 100 dice, you've gone and done something stupid with game design. At this point GW is deliberating wasting people's time as the central game gimmick. Instead, weapon stats should be short tables base on target toughness and the number of models in the shooting unit- just remove X number of enemy models. It would probably cut game times by at least a quarter, rather than constantly rolling and re-rolling those buckets of dice- and all the rerolls push more and more to a predictable result anyway.

Ice_can wrote:

Kdash wrote:
The way I see it, these new units will be in the 75-85 point range, keeping them in line with/making the slightly more expensive than the current cost of Infiltrators. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come out at the same points cost as Infiltrators.

It is going to be interesting to see how admech appear on the table once all these releases are complete. I have the feeling that it is going to make a lot of people very salty when they start to compare the units to existing ones.

If it's a minum of 5 models for that price these things are going to be spammed hard I suspect, comparing them to a number of similar models they are worth more than 20 points each easily.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if it were 25ppm for the Flamer dudes. A big block of 10 dishing out 9d6 -1AP autohits that ignore cover, then the capacity to deal some hurt in melee as well would be pretty insane at much less.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
75-85pts would be a steal, even ignoring their melee capabilities. They've got better than average guns & 2 wounds.

I'd honestly be suprised if the unit doesn't cost over 100pts.

Whilst I agree, that if they are that cheap, then they will likely get spammed, but, at the end of the day they are essentially just Infiltrators with +4” movement, double the range of the weapon and grenades, at the expense of a Taser Goad/Power Sword. (Shooty ones)

The Flamer/melee ones will likely be slightly more expensive, but, likely by no more than 5 points a model imo. Melee weapons with any form of AP always tend to pay a premium, regardless of whether they are actually “useful” or not.

GW are going to want these to sell and want them to be on the table, and I expect they will be in 5-man squads, as the photos they’ve used in the article shows 5 per unit. It’s possible that it’ll be 5-10 per unit, but, I also wouldn’t be surprised if it is just a flat 5.
I firmly believe, that these will be at a similar point cost to Infiltrators – if they are something like 25 points a model, then I don’t think you’ll see them on the table in a “standard” or “meta” list.

(note, that I don’t play admech, nor do I intend to)

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a unit with a jump pack not get some kind of deep strike rule.

Oh yeah? I checked!

And you're right. 2W, 2A, 12 inch flamers that ignore cover, and deep strike. *Looks at raptors*

These things better be expensive.

To be fair, Raptors aren't good even with these existing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a unit with a jump pack not get some kind of deep strike rule.

Oh yeah? I checked!

And you're right. 2W, 2A, 12 inch flamers that ignore cover, and deep strike. *Looks at raptors*

These things better be expensive.

To be fair, Raptors aren't good even with these existing.

No kidding. That was my point.

Usually units that dont have weapon options and have inbuilt unique wargear tend to have these sort of weapons as 0pts. This isnt always a clear cut pattern but as an example Electro-priest have their staves/gauntlets at no cost. So the Pteraxii talons may have no cost associated with them and same with the flechette carbines and phoshor torch.

Looking back from the start Infiltrators we what 18pts base then 2pts for the flechette blaster and 6pts for the taser goad putting them at 26pts a model which was quite extortionate! Now they are 15pts for the same loadout which is nearly a 50% cut in cost.

The Skystalkers dont look like they have the talons and no melee weapons at all except on the Alpha (and if he can just have a standard carbine then thats the better and cheaper option anyway) so they wont have any additional blot for unwanted melee weapons. I can see them coming in at 18pts a model including wargear. If we compare them to other multishot jump troops you have Scourges at 12ppm with shard carbines, Swooping Hawks at 13ppm with lasblasters, and probably the closest comparison are XV25 Stealth Battlesuits that come in at 24ppm with burst cannons with no support systems.

Stealth suits have the same kind of statline roughly, both have 2 wounds and attacks, the same strength, a simular gun (which id say the burst cannon is better at just 1 less shot but 2 higher strength). Stealth suits do have worse movement, WS (doesnt really matter if they arent a combat unit primarily so is largely moot on the Skystalkers...) BS but they have higher toughness and leadership. In that 24ppm package your getting an innate -1 to hit and forward deployment with infiltrate.

Id value a -1 to hit and infiltrate at a higher cost to a unit than marginally better movement and base stats in WS and BS. I dont think Skystalkers will rock in at 15ppm, but more in the field of 17/18ppm.

An Intercessor is only 5pts more than a Tactical and vastly better with 1 extra wound and attack and then a better base weapon in the bolt rifle / auto bolt rifle, etc. So I cant see them being much more than Infiltrators tbh. Who knows they might get a Khinerai like ability from AoS when after they shoot/fight they can make a 6" move straight after.

The Sterylizors are a different kettle of fish to predict however. Flamers are infamously known to be one of the most over costed weapons out there and as Admech we dont have a large amount of them, we have the cognis flamer at 7pts and the incendine combustor at 15pts. Out of the two the phosphor torch is more inline with the combustor with the same range and same AP. Ignores cover is kind of a hard rule to balance pts wise as cover is mainly....... useless in 40k, some units dont care about it, other cant even get it and most find it hard fitting the whole unit in to get the benefits. Prepared postions is usually the only source of wide spread cover barring Shroudpsalm and Tide of Shadows. And assuming the Sterylizors will deepstrike in turn 2 (if they have that rule) then those type of abilities wont be inaffect.

So they either price the base model super cheap like Tankbusters and Swooping Hawks to include the hefty price of their weapon or the weapon itself is either free or a small cost. Id put Sterylizors at 20-22ppm with everything included. They are already kind of competing with Sulphur Hounds with being fast moving chaff clearers and I think with Hounds will be a bit better at it damage wise if their pistols are basically longer ranger or faster firing phosphor blast pistols which are str 5 ap 1 and ignores cover.

Their combat potential seems actualy ok but its more of an after thought, how often will they make a charge for deep strike and would they want to, they are oly t3 4+ save models.

What I think thatll really sell these Pteraxii is the stratagems linked to them and any unseen rules weve yet to see on their datasheets and in the book itself. Im a Stygies player so I dunno how they will fit into my list, maybe replacing my transuranic arquebus squad and infiltrators so that I have a more efficient backline clearer and character hunter. A potential 10d6 auto hits against a support character, key objective holding unit or a weakened vehicle in the enemies deployment could be clutch.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I doubt they have deep strike, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the rules preview.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a unit with a jump pack not get some kind of deep strike rule.

Celestine and her Geminae wave sadly

Voss wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Points will determine their value - but its hard not to bristle at the rules creep.

It really bothers me that 8th edition has gotten to the point that a 10 man unit (yeah, unit size assumption, but...) can generate 50 shots. And if they do indeed deep strike, its functionally unstoppable, and then they pew-pew enemies into submission. Not from the strength 3 shots, but from the unending dice rolls.

And once you factor in rerolls and the hit/wound/save system... maybe its me, but given that there are probably a couple dozen units on the table, if resolving a single unit's actions for the turn can result in rolling (including rerolls) more than a 100 dice, you've gone and done something stupid with game design. At this point GW is deliberating wasting people's time as the central game gimmick. Instead, weapon stats should be short tables base on target toughness and the number of models in the shooting unit- just remove X number of enemy models. It would probably cut game times by at least a quarter, rather than constantly rolling and re-rolling those buckets of dice- and all the rerolls push more and more to a predictable result anyway.

Well, functionally unstoppable except by screening, deep strike interrupt stratagems, or stratagems that require deep strikers to be over 12" away, which both marines and CSM now commonly have access to.

This unit is solidly better than many existing units with the same purview.

This unt is still not going to be super great unless undercosted.

The gun range is too long for most of those to matter, though it should be obvious that the deep strike angle is the least of my problems with the unit.

Voss wrote:
The gun range is too long for most of those to matter, though it should be obvious that the deep strike angle is the least of my problems with the unit.

um...nope. They have 12" range guns.

-Every deep strike reaction strat/ability I know of that has limited range is 12" range. Admech one, SM one, Tau one are 12", eldar one is unlimited IIRC.
-Every deep strike denial rule I know of is "enemies must deploy over 12" away." (the alpha legion one, the GSC character guy, the rule for the new SM scout primaris guys/characters, etc)
-Screening is pretty easy if you keep the units you care about 3" behind the front edge of your screen, they're safe.

It should be pretty simple for most armies to have an answer ready to go for these guys.

the_scotsman wrote:

Voss wrote:
The gun range is too long for most of those to matter, though it should be obvious that the deep strike angle is the least of my problems with the unit.

um...nope. They have 12" range guns.

-Every deep strike reaction strat/ability I know of that has limited range is 12" range. Admech one, SM one, Tau one are 12", eldar one is unlimited IIRC.
-Every deep strike denial rule I know of is "enemies must deploy over 12" away." (the alpha legion one, the GSC character guy, the rule for the new SM scout primaris guys/characters, etc)
-Screening is pretty easy if you keep the units you care about 3" behind the front edge of your screen, they're safe.

It should be pretty simple for most armies to have an answer ready to go for these guys.

Your talking about thr phospore torche, he's talking about the flashet carbines which are 24 inch range and 5 shoots per model so 25 shoots at BS 3+ from a 5 man unit. Your not screening 24 inches of shooting away, however they also seem to be built to hoose screens aswell with the stats of just volumes of weak dice. & MW.

Would have preferred something like 2 shots, make 2 wound rolls for each hit. Cuts down on the number of dice while preserving the volume of shots element.

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Voss wrote:
The gun range is too long for most of those to matter, though it should be obvious that the deep strike angle is the least of my problems with the unit.

um...nope. They have 12" range guns.

-Every deep strike reaction strat/ability I know of that has limited range is 12" range. Admech one, SM one, Tau one are 12", eldar one is unlimited IIRC.
-Every deep strike denial rule I know of is "enemies must deploy over 12" away." (the alpha legion one, the GSC character guy, the rule for the new SM scout primaris guys/characters, etc)
-Screening is pretty easy if you keep the units you care about 3" behind the front edge of your screen, they're safe.

It should be pretty simple for most armies to have an answer ready to go for these guys.

Your talking about thr phospore torche, he's talking about the flashet carbines which are 24 inch range and 5 shoots per model so 25 shoots at BS 3+ from a 5 man unit. Your not screening 24 inches of shooting away, however they also seem to be built to hoose screens aswell with the stats of just volumes of weak dice. & MW.

I mean...that's less dice than you have to roll for a lot of units though.

Like a lot of units. You know ork boyz go up to 30 man squads right? 60 shots for a unit of shoota boyz, and 90 melee attacks?

I'm really not bothered about a unit having 5 S3 shots. When the model is say 18-20 points (give or take) there are going to be plenty of ways to get more effective shooting than this.

The issue is flying over a vehicle and doing a mortal wound on a 3+. Do not pass go, do not collect your invulnerable save.
If they are say 18-20 points that's just daft. If however they jump to say 30 points - to be pointed on the assumption you are making use of this rule - they are going to be far too fragile and rubbish as a result (without as yet unknown synergy).

As for the flamer, I assume someone at GW went "we've made Ruststalkers 11 points and people are still not biting (which is really a function of internal Ad Mech synergy than the unit itself). Hang on, how about we trade in the mortal wounds on their blades for AP-1 flat spiky feet, give them an extra 4" movement and fly, and a 12" flamer also with AP-1. That has to work surely."

Similar story - 20~ points a model and its good. 30 points and they suck. Intercept is obviously valid - but it hasn't yet eliminated deep strike from the game. Saying "just screen" seems a stretch, because with an S4/AP-1 flamer and a few S5/AP-1 attacks these units *want* to go into screens, or backfield objective holders/support units. Its not that they are going to cleave through your lines, its more the creep thats the issue.

People are really losing their minds over the mortal wounds. I don't see it as an issue at all.

They aren't flyers with huge movement range. Even if they have deep strike, you just shoot them before they can move again. I've never heard of anyone complaining about shooting sicarians after they inevitably fail their charge and give away a free unit kill. I really don't see these being super effective unless they have some other movement or charge enhancing rule (for the flamers) that they haven't shown.

Quasistellar wrote:
People are really losing their minds over the mortal wounds. I don't see it as an issue at all.

This is DakkaDakka. If you don't declare a new unit trash then you have to hypothesize on scenarios to make the unit as broken as possible so you can then whinge about a comparative unit.

Quasistellar wrote:
People are really losing their minds over the mortal wounds. I don't see it as an issue at all.

They aren't flyers with huge movement range. Even if they have deep strike, you just shoot them before they can move again. I've never heard of anyone complaining about shooting sicarians after they inevitably fail their charge and give away a free unit kill. I really don't see these being super effective unless they have some other movement or charge enhancing rule (for the flamers) that they haven't shown.

Because MW are the most unfun and unbalanced rule to hand out, got a eldar T6 vehical take 3 mortal wounds got a T9, 2+, 5+ LOW take 3 MW.
It renders every defensive profile worthless short of FNP's which are very uncommon for vehicals not to mention they can do this ability in addition to shooting, so 12 inch move with MW, Flying unit with passable melee, so wrap and trap, then bounce to the next while one again throwing 2/3 MW.

Also they have a 4+ save 2 wounds, not everyone is playing Spacemarines who get enough attacks to be able to one round your units with troops.
Slightly more concerning is we haven't seen what the build yoir own Forgeworld bonuses will be as I could easily see a FNP as an option.

Ice_can wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
People are really losing their minds over the mortal wounds. I don't see it as an issue at all.

They aren't flyers with huge movement range. Even if they have deep strike, you just shoot them before they can move again. I've never heard of anyone complaining about shooting sicarians after they inevitably fail their charge and give away a free unit kill. I really don't see these being super effective unless they have some other movement or charge enhancing rule (for the flamers) that they haven't shown.

Because MW are the most unfun and unbalanced rule to hand out, got a eldar T6 vehical take 3 mortal wounds got a T9, 2+, 5+ LOW take 3 MW.
It renders every defensive profile worthless short of FNP's which are very uncommon for vehicals not to mention they can do this ability in addition to shooting, so 12 inch move with MW, Flying unit with passable melee, so wrap and trap, then bounce to the next while one again throwing 2/3 MW.

Also they have a 4+ save 2 wounds, not everyone is playing Spacemarines who get enough attacks to be able to one round your units with troops.
Slightly more concerning is we haven't seen what the build yoir own Forgeworld bonuses will be as I could easily see a FNP as an option.

I mean..

Every defensive profile except for wounds. And ignore wound abilities.

Definitely agree that rule is a bit obnoxious, I'm just not seeing it being something they'll get to use often at all given how nearly every unit like that works.

Drop, shoot, get popped. Any ability not in the "Shoot" Category for a unit like that is just kinda wasted points, unless it's melee on a unit that can boost charge range.

You don't need to deep strike the grenade guys. Just have them on the table and move up as necessary. (You don't even really need to DS the flamer guys - although you might want to in certain matchups). Sure they probably won't get to do any mortal wounds on turn 1 (unless your opponent steams straight at you) and yes, they can be killed... like every unit in the game. Units with "kill me or potentially take disproportionate damage">"kill me, it doesn't much matter". Its not like these are going to be your only threat. If they are shooting these turn 1 they are not shooting your heavy support choices, your chicken robots etc. They are not clearing your screens.

But you have a unit where you can inflict potentially very high numbers of mortal wounds very reliably on any vehicle that goes vaguely in the middle of the table (or just chuck 10 dice at a character and hope you roll a bit above average etc - plenty of characters out there with 4 wounds). The wings may make them a bit annoying to hide - but terrain permitting, you may be able to move up the board or apply pressure while staying relatively hidden LOS wise.

As said - its all about points. They can be comically overpowered at 10 points per model, and terrible at 30 points per model. But the creep is still there.

 Sentineil wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
People are really losing their minds over the mortal wounds. I don't see it as an issue at all.

This is DakkaDakka. If you don't declare a new unit trash then you have to hypothesize on scenarios to make the unit as broken as possible so you can then whinge about a comparative unit.

Are you suggesting that all-or-nothing thinking is a feature of Dakka specifically? I am sad to say the standard is far, far lower than what is seen around this forum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
As said - its all about points. They can be comically overpowered at 10 points per model, and terrible at 30 points per model. But the creep is still there.

Unfortunately if one assumes that every new unit will be over/under powered they would be more right than not when it comes to GW.

Man... I really want this PA to release! I wanna see all the juicy new AdMech rules!

There was prior to quarantine some play with Slaaneshi demons including the use of Keepers I believe.

Edit: I think I responded to a comment that was just way up thread mistakenly.

Have we still seen zilch in terms of the new Daemon rules? It seems bizarre to me.

Brian888 wrote:
Have we still seen zilch in terms of the new Daemon rules? It seems bizarre to me.

It shouldn't. You're not the star faction of the book. You're just in it.

And most rules previews come out once the book is up for pre-order - we've really only seen bits and pieces of unit stats for AdMech, plus a lot of descriptive text, when you think about it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Brian888 wrote:
Have we still seen zilch in terms of the new Daemon rules? It seems bizarre to me.

It shouldn't. You're not the star faction of the book. You're just in it.

Which is not how it should be. Earlier PA books seemed relatively split fairly among the different factions. Using PA as a jumping board for a whole line of new models just skews everything.

I sort of thought we would get "kinda weird Covid pre-order" this weekend - but I guess we are going for "could be 9th edition, could just be a big Necron..." instead.

(Am kind of suspect it will be 9th - because who is going to care about Engine War, Spider, Pariah if so? I guess if its one of those "its basically the same but for these six keyword changes" and everything continues as is editions, but... still nah?)

But yeah - You would expect Daemons and Knights etc to at least get an article devoted to their rules, no matter if they spent 3 minutes work on them compared with the Ad Mech. (Ad Mech will also presumably get an article indicating stratagems and rules etc beyond "here is the new models".)

Maybe next week with a 30th release?

Brian888 wrote:
Have we still seen zilch in terms of the new Daemon rules? It seems bizarre to me.

There's just Deamon rules in the book, they didn't know when they were going to release it but had shown models of AdMech guys.

Nothing bizarre about it at all. We'll get a hint at what the daemon rules are when the thing goes on preorder on the 30th.
So Daemon rules first week in June.

Have they posted any AdMech rules not related to new models? I can't remember.

Tyel wrote:
I sort of thought we would get "kinda weird Covid pre-order" this weekend - but I guess we are going for "could be 9th edition, could just be a big Necron..." instead.

(Am kind of suspect it will be 9th - because who is going to care about Engine War, Spider, Pariah if so? I guess if its one of those "its basically the same but for these six keyword changes" and everything continues as is editions, but... still nah?)

But yeah - You would expect Daemons and Knights etc to at least get an article devoted to their rules, no matter if they spent 3 minutes work on them compared with the Ad Mech. (Ad Mech will also presumably get an article indicating stratagems and rules etc beyond "here is the new models".)

Maybe next week with a 30th release?

The price increase article also says that new preorders will go up on 30th for release on the 6th. Obviously no idea what exactly they'll release as of yet.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Have they posted any AdMech rules not related to new models? I can't remember.

No rules previews from engine war yet.

 p5freak wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Have they posted any AdMech rules not related to new models? I can't remember.

No rules previews from engine war yet.

Yeah, all that've been seen have been stat blocks or rules relating to the new AdMech models and weapons.

God I just want a small snippet of what Daemons are getting. Anything.
They need a rules boost way more than a lot of the other factions.

 dan2026 wrote:
God I just want a small snippet of what Daemons are getting. Anything.
They need a rules boost way more than a lot of the other factions.

I think is just a product of the drawn-out release schedule they're under. Previous PA releases have included mainly only 2 factions and a model each on each side, so they get their respective model previews one at a time, then when pre-order get's announced they get their rules previews for PA the following week. In this case what we've seen so far is a LOT of admech previews for units that will be included with PA because it makes sense to put them in a book, but aren't actually part of the overarching narrative like previous PA model releases.

Now the engine war pre-order has been announced, next week I expect us to see some previews for all the factions involved in the book. Then on the 30th they'll move on to the next PA book.

The big spanner in the works to this whole deduction is whatever comes out of this big preview tomorrow, surely whatever it is has to come after all the PA books are out though? Unless it really is just silent king related for the last PA book....which as significant as that is, would fall below my hype radar as galaxy-spanning twists worthy of all the countdowns they're putting up goes.

Engine War isn't up for pre-order yet, unless you mean you think it'll go up tomorrow.

 Dysartes wrote:
Engine War isn't up for pre-order yet, unless you mean you think it'll go up tomorrow.

Which it won't, as they said that preorders will resume on May 30th.

 Dysartes wrote:
Engine War isn't up for pre-order yet, unless you mean you think it'll go up tomorrow.

Which, considering GW just said the next pre-order will be 5/30, I doubt it.

New releases are going up for pre-order on the 30th. That's what they said.

Chronologically that's all the admech stuff first, then war of the spider with Bile, then pariah with it's models. Thats 40k, their's Lumineth in there somewhere as well but if that's not announcing that engine war is going up for pre-order on the 30th I don't know what is.

Octovol wrote:
New releases are going up for pre-order on the 30th. That's what they said.

Chronologically that's all the admech stuff first, then war of the spider with Bile, then pariah with it's models. Thats 40k, their's Lumineth in there somewhere as well but if that's not announcing that engine war is going up for pre-order on the 30th I don't know what is.

Expect that announcement on Sunday. Saturday has nothing to do with them reopening back up, it's part of what Adepticon and the other couple of cancelled events were going to have as previews.

There's a reason why the speculation is so heavily centered upon a starter set and a 'new edition'. June/July is when new editions usually drop(lets them have some time before the holiday rush comes up) and the teases usually start in March or April.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's part of what Adepticon and the other couple of cancelled events were going to have as previews.

I thought this was common knowledge during the pandemic.

Engine War goes up for preorder on Sunday May 30th.

Oh and hey, guess what folks?

New Start Collecting set.

Ooooh! Now that’s more like it!

If that's £60, that's a pretty good deal - £45 + £25 + £18 at RRP, so £88?

 Dysartes wrote:
If that's £60, that's a pretty good deal - £45 + £25 + £18 at RRP, so £88?

Skitarii are going up to £27.50, and the Enginseer to £20 so it's really good - unless it's going to be £65.

Still decent at £65. Three of them make for a solid army core.

beast_gts wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
If that's £60, that's a pretty good deal - £45 + £25 + £18 at RRP, so £88?

Skitarii are going up to £27.50, and the Enginseer to £20 so it's really good - unless it's going to be £65.

Even at £65, I'd consider one from my LGS (with a discount) - I've only got one box of Skitarii, and neither of the other models.

Well certainly seems that this is very much a Mechnicus focused book with them accounting for 16 pages of new rules, Demons 15 though I'm not sure how much is genuinely new, Imperial Knights with 6 and Choas Knights with 5.

 Dysartes wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
If that's £60, that's a pretty good deal - £45 + £25 + £18 at RRP, so £88?

Skitarii are going up to £27.50, and the Enginseer to £20 so it's really good - unless it's going to be £65.

Even at £65, I'd consider one from my LGS (with a discount) - I've only got one box of Skitarii, and neither of the other models.

Depending on the price, I'd be looking at them for Skorpius. That thing's $75USD by itself.

I could always keep the Skitarii in storage for when/if I get more Peltasts or Hoplites. Or start kitbashing my own Skitarii-themed Techpriests.

That Start Collecting isn't helping.


I started the Skitarii a couple of years ago when they were launched but lost interest. Price shock over units like the Ironstriders didn't help.


I refused to purchase the Skorpius on its own for the same reason and sold on/ swapped the Skitarii in the two Kill Team starters I bought.

I guess it all depends on the price of the Rough Riders and the flyer.

Chuffed that Engine War is finally dropping in, been looking forward to the Knight rules for ages now.

It's been a while since we've had pre-orders, so my memory has gone fuzzy - would it be this week or next week we should expect proper Engine War rules previews?

Looking at the ToC, I'm kinda curious what the Exalted Greater Daemons are all about.

I'm also wondering how many pages of name generators the Daemons get

 Dysartes wrote:
It's been a while since we've had pre-orders, so my memory has gone fuzzy - would it be this week or next week we should expect proper Engine War rules previews?

Looking at the ToC, I'm kinda curious what the Exalted Greater Daemons are all about.

I'm also wondering how many pages of name generators the Daemons get

They;ll be this week, leading up to the preorder.

Lets see, being positive, the new start collecting is good for Ad Mech, that is a set up which if you are a new player you'd find good value in I think. Depending on how much it costs.

The cavalry guys I just love but my eyes water at how much it'll hurt the wallet. I'll need to get at least a small group of them, they are too cool. At some point of course but all very cool stuff.

We're looking at $50USD(same price as the Akhelian Eels) to $60USD(same as most of the bigger cavalry) for the Serberys stuff.

Frankly, the Enginseer and Skorpius are $105 together. Skitarii are going up to $44 per the leaked prices. That puts the contents at $149--even at a $100 pricepoint(which is the most likely spot), you're getting the Skitarii for free.

Looks like we get Forgeworld specific Canticles, and maybe some extra Dogmas, unless they are changing both.

Also Holy Order warlord traits, which might be for things like Genetors and Explorators? There's two pages of those which seems a bit mad compared to one page shared between Forgeworld canticles and Dogmas.

[edit]Chaos Knights get 5 Houses to pick from, but not House Devine that the old scout titans and Slaanesh knights used to belong to.
Deamons get Exalted Greater Deamons and Infinite Forms of Corruption (one of which is presumably Kustom Jobs/Tank Aces)

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Lets see, being positive, the new start collecting is good for Ad Mech, that is a set up which if you are a new player you'd find good value in I think. Depending on how much it costs.

The cavalry guys I just love but my eyes water at how much it'll hurt the wallet. I'll need to get at least a small group of them, they are too cool. At some point of course but all very cool stuff.

It’s definitely more appealing from a force building perspective than its predecessor.

Sure, Ad Mech only need so many Enginseers. But on the secondary market, at least IG players might take him off your hands. If not? Your wasting less of the value than compared to the Dominus model.

I genuinely wouldn't be shocked if Enginseers in the next iteration of the Codex become a Lieutenant styled choice, where you can take multiples per FOC slot.

Enginseers get promoted into Domini in Crusade!

 Tastyfish wrote:
Enginseers get promoted into Domini in Crusade!

Or they might get promoted into Manipulii first!

10 pages for Chaos Knights according to the contents. Any word on what new rules we can expect?

 Brother Castor wrote:
10 pages for Chaos Knights according to the contents. Any word on what new rules we can expect?

"Dread Households".

We don't know exactly what that is, but there's several named. So rules for them one would guess.

Uh where did that info come from?

 Brother Castor wrote:
10 pages for Chaos Knights according to the contents. Any word on what new rules we can expect?

I doubt it's 10 pages of rules as going by the titles and exsisting PA books the first sectiosn look like faction specific fluff and name generators won't help in game, I made it about 5 pages of actual rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh where did that info come from?

They posted the contents pages on warhammer community page

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh where did that info come from?

Right there.

Both the Loyalist and Chaos Knights get what is likely to be 'build your own household' styled rules.

So Slaanesh datasheets from WD are there...
Interesting.

Is that redone Forge World Dogmas I potentially spy?

Since there are datasheets for older stuff like
Slaanesh chariots and seekers , I am curious to see which changes
this could imply...

No name generators for Knights or Chaos Knights. Without those why would anyone buy this book?

Clearly this book is nothing but filler nonsense...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No name generators for Knights or Chaos Knights. Without those why would anyone buy this book?

Clearly this book is nothing but filler nonsense...

Eh? Page 57 and 67 respectively.

mortar_crew wrote:
Since there are datasheets for older stuff like
Slaanesh chariots and seekers , I am curious to see which changes
this could imply...

My guess is they're just reprinting stuff again to fill space (or -maybe- cut down on reference books)

Ah, they're in the middle of each section, unlike everywhere else where they're at the end. Ok, crisis averted. The book is now worth the price.

Also nice that the new Start Collecting doesn't come with the Tech-Priest Dominos. I think I have... 5 of them. Don't want any more thanks.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is that redone Forge World Dogmas I potentially spy?

The answer is...maybe?

Better bet is on it being custom dogmas though.

Okay, please tell me I'm not crazy--it says there's 3 items on page 50 right? Dogmas, AdMech Name Generator, and Canticles of the Omnissiah...then it jumps to page 54 for Imperial Knights?

The datasheets in the daemon section are exactly the same as the ones in Chapter Approved 2019. Which were a reprint of the ones from White Dwarf, plus the chariots. Not impressed.

What were you expecting, exactly?

The Psychic Awakening books are consolidating stuff from various sources into one spot.

Given it's an update to Daemons, makes more sense to have all the updated rules consolidated into one area. If anything it makes it easier on Daemon players.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What were you expecting, exactly?

The Psychic Awakening books are consolidating stuff from various sources into one spot.

New stuff? I didn’t check, are they including the daemon name generator again?

Crackedgear wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
What were you expecting, exactly?

The Psychic Awakening books are consolidating stuff from various sources into one spot.

New stuff? I didn’t check, are they including the daemon name generator again?

Yes.

And at this point its clear that all the new stuff went to AdMech, and its rather amazing that they're getting so much. PA in general hasn't been much of a source for new models.

They're all army updates for 9th, as many of us suspected early on.

Crackedgear wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
What were you expecting, exactly?

The Psychic Awakening books are consolidating stuff from various sources into one spot.

New stuff? I didn’t check, are they including the daemon name generator again?

A huge disappointment for daemons. They need an update. Tzeentch psykers are overcosted, and their psychic powers are pretty much useless. Locus of trickery is useless.

 p5freak wrote:

Crackedgear wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
What were you expecting, exactly?

The Psychic Awakening books are consolidating stuff from various sources into one spot.

New stuff? I didn’t check, are they including the daemon name generator again?

A huge disappointment for daemons. They need an update. Tzeentch psykers are overcosted, and their psychic powers are pretty much useless.

Well, Slaanesh psychic powers are not exactly overpowered either.
I see your point.

Slaanesh deamons also the only spellcasters that have no way to create spawns
which is rather annoying because,
well it used to Slaanesh thing with the (granted, old) Fleshy Curse spell...


Obviously it looks to be light on real content for deamons.

I would still like to know what they changed for chariots, and the seekers.

Shame there is nothing about heralds, since the loss of the steed option
(for all gods that is) is still something I would like to be adressed.

Oh and not even a point update or minor rule change for that poor thing
that is the soul grinder...

Bit early to say it is a disappointment when we do not know the rules content.

Even something as simple as a few overpowered stratagems can dramatically change an army's performance. 'Sooper Daemoniac Assault: 1CP when deploying a daemons unit from reserve, 3" minimum from enemy units instead of 9"'

From looking at the index Daemons are getting the most non Datasheets rules in this book. Legions Daemonica seems to be 2 pages with pickable Daemon Legions. The Infinite Forms of Corruption could be about a new summoning system, or new psychic stuff, or unit upgrades, either way its also 2 pages of rules. And then there are 2 pages each dedicated to Greater Daemons. 12 pages in total. Admech only has 7 pages of rules. The bloat comes from New Datasheets and the Fluff for the new stuff. Knights don't even have 12 pages in total each.

mortar_crew wrote:
Since there are datasheets for older stuff like
Slaanesh chariots and seekers , I am curious to see which changes
this could imply...

Not neccessarily anything. Just collecting stuff under one book. Especially if the slaanesh stuff was previously in WD now it doesn't require hunting down OOP WD. Ynnari WD to PA port was 100% carbon copy as well.

For anyone excited to see "what they've done with the Slaanesh chariots"... Perhaps read CA2019 which has full datasheets for them. Spoiler alert, not much.

Looking at the Chaos Daemons contents for Engine War:

3 pages Chaos Daemons - fluff.

1 page Lords of the Warp - more fluff? or Grey Knight style mono faction tides of the warp rules?

1 page Keepers of Secrets - sounds like fluff, which makes me think Lords of the Warp is fluff too.

10 pages Datasheets that both GW and apparently their own customers forgot was printed in a GW book 6 months ago.

2 pages Infinite Forms of Corruption - sounds like kustom jobz or prototype systems, doesn't sound like Grey Knight style tides of the warp rules.

2 pages strategems - i think people also forget that Chaos Daemons have over 50 datasheets in their book (because 30+ of them have been so woeful in 8th), I really wish this had been 3 pages or I really hope these aren't unit specific strats.

8 pages for the Greater Daemons - wow, they really haven't sold as many £85 model kits as they wanted huh! I wonder if they will get new free rules such as maybe a wound limit per phase like Ghaz or if these are just rules they will have to spend CP to get.

I'm curious to see when the exalted daemon rules are going to be. There are of course the FW models, but I don't think that will be addressed. Maybe now greater daemons can truly be a force to be reckoned with on the field.

You guys must be really fun at parties lol.

Bear in mind most of admech's current power comes from our strategms. So it's very possible to make an army better without filing it full of new datasheets and rules.

Cinderspirit wrote:
From looking at the index Daemons are getting the most non Datasheets rules in this book. Legions Daemonica seems to be 2 pages with pickable Daemon Legions. The Infinite Forms of Corruption could be about a new summoning system, or new psychic stuff, or unit upgrades, either way its also 2 pages of rules. And then there are 2 pages each dedicated to Greater Daemons. 12 pages in total. Admech only has 7 pages of rules. The bloat comes from New Datasheets and the Fluff for the new stuff. Knights don't even have 12 pages in total each.

I have a feeling Legions Daemonica might just be fluff, since it comes before the Keepers of Secrets section, which is seperate to the Keeper of Secret datasheet and thus is also likely just fluff.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm curious to see when the exalted daemon rules are going to be. There are of course the FW models, but I don't think that will be addressed. Maybe now greater daemons can truly be a force to be reckoned with on the field.

Hopefully they have learned from AoS that making the exalted daemons awful isn't a good way to generate sales.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Cinderspirit wrote:
From looking at the index Daemons are getting the most non Datasheets rules in this book. Legions Daemonica seems to be 2 pages with pickable Daemon Legions. The Infinite Forms of Corruption could be about a new summoning system, or new psychic stuff, or unit upgrades, either way its also 2 pages of rules. And then there are 2 pages each dedicated to Greater Daemons. 12 pages in total. Admech only has 7 pages of rules. The bloat comes from New Datasheets and the Fluff for the new stuff. Knights don't even have 12 pages in total each.

I have a feeling Legions Daemonica might just be fluff, since it comes before the Keepers of Secrets section, which is seperate to the Keeper of Secret datasheet and thus is also likely just fluff.

Well you are kinda right, Legions Daemonica comes before Datasheets, so it may be just my hope. But still it comes after Keepers of Secrets, which is surely Fluff only.

But still it would be 12 pages of rules, I forgot to count the Stratagems. I really hope there is some good stuff.

I don’t recognize the Exalted greater daemons. Are those new, or is my copy of the data scribe files old?

I wish they would reprint the warp storm table
Just kidding folks, a name generator and coherrent horror rules will do fine.



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 solkan wrote:
I don’t recognize the Exalted greater daemons. Are those new, or is my copy of the data scribe files old?

Usually the big Forge World daemons.

Yeah... assuming fluff for the top sections. Which is a bit limiting but there you go. If you look at the Admech it seems quite transparent. Suspect "Keepers of Secrets" is just going to be about... Keepers of Secrets. Because they haven't been shown off in a proper book yet.

Infinite Forms of Corruption might be a Grey Knight style Mechanic but it could also just be a few alternate Loci you can choose from.

Would expect the Exalted Greater Daemons to be like Master of Sanctity, Chief Apothecary etc. Gain some rule, unlock some warlord traits, relics etc.

Well no rules just some designer commentary on designing admech

Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/25/adeptus-mechanicus-designing-the-reinforcementsgw-homepage-post-4/

Some nice concept art to be had there!

 BrookM wrote:
Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/25/adeptus-mechanicus-designing-the-reinforcementsgw-homepage-post-4/

Some nice concept art to be had there!

Very nice indeed!

Those drawings (and all the others that we cannot see behind the scene)
would make an amazing Gothic & Eldritch line of artbooks. Jes rules!

Someone doesn't understand how revolvers work right there.

I wonder why there is a ships anchor floating under it? Inside joke maybe lol.

I missed the 2 pages of Legiones Daemonica before the datasheets! That does actually give me some optimism.

This was the name they used for the Chaos Daemons faction in the latest version of Apocalypse.

Maybe they have finally decided to use <LEGIONES> as the faction keyword rather than <DAEMONS>. This way they can actually be clear and specific about which rules they want just the Codex Daemons to have and which rules they want to also be soupable with CSM, TSons and DG.

I'm also pretty certain that despite being called Exalted Bloodthirsters, Exalted Lords of Change, etc, that those rules are for improving the normal GW plastic £85 kits, not for the forge world resin versions (£107, £131, £168 and £173 for anyone keeping score).

The issue with for example Lords of Change, is that you can make one good one with the 3++ relic and the -1 damage warlord trait, but you can't make a second good one. Also, if you do take two, guess which one is getting shot first. So 2 pages of rules that let you make a sort of knight lance of three functional Lords of Change makes sense to me.

I’m hopeful that it’s rules for the gw big guys. I’m not a fan of the forge world keeper of secrets or lord of change.

I'd be very surprised if FW units ended up in a general GW release. Of course, no one really knows just what the hell GW is doing with FW's rules, so maybe this is a preview of what's to come when GW redoes the IA indices?

Well the FW one isn't an Exalted Lord of Change.. It's Aetaosraukeres, right?

So maybe its just a boosted LoC and thats it.

 Brometheus wrote:
Well the FW one isn't an Exalted Lord of Change.. It's Aetaosraukeres, right?

So maybe its just a boosted LoC and thats it.

I Just remember the FW greater daemons has been called exalted greater daemons before. But only place Im sure now was the storm of magic book at the end of fantasy battle era.
A quick google search for "Exalted greater daemon" also suggest strongly its the FW big guys.
However, it do sound strange that they would include FW models.

Prices.

Start Collecting is reasonable. Rest....bit Oof.

Oof indeed, was thinking about getting some of the cogboys, but that's beyond my budget for the time being.

Shouldn’t be too awful from a discounted retailer. But even so. Oof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Start Collecting retails at GW for £88, and if memory serves some of the kits are in for an increase anyway?

However, taking out the Enginseer as you’ll only need so many of those, it’s arguable a value for £18. Saving £10 is nice, of course it is, but even so.

Here was thinking GW was just a business trying to make money... or so I've been told.



Umm, the GW webstore is down again ("We sold too much today, so you can't browse the website!" - this is dumb GW!), but can anyone tell me what the equivalencies are? Like what Marine kit is £35? What other units are £60? Or £22.50?

Hydra for the smaller boxed sets and a Start Collecting! Militarum Tempestus for the new AdMech one.

do we know how many minis are in the pteraxii and raiders box, 5s or 10s ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Here was thinking GW was just a business trying to make money... or so I've been told.



Umm, the GW webstore is down again ("We sold too much today, so you can't browse the website!" - this is dumb GW!), but can anyone tell me what the equivalencies are? Like what Marine kit is £35? What other units are £60? Or £22.50?

£60 is all the expensive start collectings, and Death Guard Deathshrouds are £35

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Prices.

Start Collecting is reasonable. Rest....bit Oof.

Somebody have a currency conversion chart for this crap. Hard to say if those would be the prices in other countries when they get there esp. With tax involved but an approximate amount is better than nothing.

I honestly expected the horses to cost about 50 to 55 USD. Considering how each new gw kit costs more and more. It wasn't that unexpected.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
do we know how many minis are in the pteraxii and raiders box, 5s or 10s ?

Five flyers, three cogboys per boxed set.

In $AUS I got told the flyer will be $165 and $98 for both the Raiders/Hounds (3 to a box) and the Pteraxii (5 to a box).

I thought the shop owner was joking but those prices in pounds also match up to the start collecting primaris vanguard and the primaris 10 figure kits, like intercessors, reivers etc

£35 for 5 non-troop infantry - or 3 cavalry - feels expensive (because it is), but has sort of become the going rate.

But £60 for the flyer is a joke. Expect either brokenly good rules or they are just not going to shift.

But then maybe I just have the kit all wrong. I've been assuming its a relatively cheap 150 points sort of flyer with several variants - the sort of level where if you take one, you probably take three. If its a 250-300 ish point centre piece - like say a Repulsor Executioner or whatever - then... maybe its more acceptable (even if you then want to take three.)

Tyel wrote:
£35 for 5 non-troop infantry - or 3 cavalry - feels expensive (because it is), but has sort of become the going rate.

But £60 for the flyer is a joke. Expect either brokenly good rules or they are just not going to shift.

But then maybe I just have the kit all wrong. I've been assuming its a relatively cheap 150 points sort of flyer with several variants - the sort of level where if you take one, you probably take three. If its a 250-300 ish point centre piece - like say a Repulsor Executioner or whatever - then... maybe its more acceptable (even if you then want to take three.)

Considering just about every flying model is included in the price hike and they've gone out of their way to point out the improvements to flying units this edition, something tells me they're going to be pretty broken.

 Arbitrator wrote:
Considering just about every flying model is included in the price hike and they've gone out of their way to point out the improvements to flying units this edition, something tells me they're going to be pretty broken.

Possibly, but I'm not sure how broken a model which just seems to have a lot of stubbers can be.
I guess they can always be super stubbers, shooting Sulfurous death rounds (AP-3, 2 damage), that only appear on these planes because... they just do okay.
(Apologies if the rules have been leaked and I just missed them.)

Tyel wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
Considering just about every flying model is included in the price hike and they've gone out of their way to point out the improvements to flying units this edition, something tells me they're going to be pretty broken.

Possibly, but I'm not sure how broken a model which just seems to have a lot of stubbers can be.
I guess they can always be super stubbers, shooting Sulfurous death rounds (AP-3, 2 damage), that only appear on these planes because... they just do okay.
(Apologies if the rules have been leaked and I just missed them.)

I really, really dont like the amount of stubbers admech get.
Its okey for the dunecrawler, because you dont want to waste your good weapons on cultists.
Its borderline ok for the Skorpius because its either a transport or has actually rockets and a main gun.
But I dont get it with this plane, now if it doesnt ignore movement penalties and doesnt have an invuln like the skorpius for whatever reason then I dont think I will get it.

Each day I'm surprised by how reasonable is AoS becoming compared with 40k.

I mean. Compare the Ossiarch Bonereapers prices with this, with 45€ for 20 morterk guard vs 45€ por 5 flying mechanicus boys.

 Galas wrote:
Each day I'm surprised by how reasonable is AoS becoming compared with 40k.

I mean. Compare the Ossiarch Bonereapers prices with this, with 45€ for 20 morterk guard vs 45€ por 5 flying mechanicus boys.

Daughters of Kaine reasonable? Not all AoS are more reasonable than 40k, and some of the more reasonably-priced armies like Ogors are getting a price increase.


Regarding the AdMech prices: AdMech was the first army I started after returning to 40k and I have collected a decent 2000 point list. I was seriously considering getting the coptor, but GW has priced me out of collecting future models for this army. AdMech units in particular were expensive to begin with but these new prices are simply unacceptable to me for what you get.

Daughters of Khaine haven't been reasonably priced since they were still part of the Dark Elf range. It's the dual kit nature, y'see.

AdMech's range wasn't that bad, aside from the Cult stuff which was overpriced thanks to stuff being Ogryn sized Troops(Kataphron) and the exceedingly 'meh' Electropriests.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Prices.

Start Collecting is reasonable. Rest....bit Oof.

What's that translate to in real money, 50$ for the mounted boys?

Honestly, about what I expected.

I will most likely get a couple boxes of the riders for my admech. Anything that makes admech playstyles more interesting I'm game for. I also own 3 of the ostrich riders and I think that says something about me :/

That is actually what I was expecting prices to be, weird enough.

Am I going mental, or is the book £5 more than the previous volumes?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Am I going mental, or is the book £5 more than the previous volumes?

Quick check implies they have all been £25 RRP, which from a discount FLG wis about £20.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Daughters of Khaine haven't been reasonably priced since they were still part of the Dark Elf range. It's the dual kit nature, y'see.

AdMech's range wasn't that bad, aside from the Cult stuff which was overpriced thanks to stuff being Ogryn sized Troops(Kataphron) and the exceedingly 'meh' Electropriests.

Oh, Admech is one of the most expensive armies to currently build. Most builds average .66-.75 dollar per point. The only one worse is GSC. The skorpius skewed it more and this new stuff will sku it even more. Current mech build is just over $1200 retail for 2k. That using start collectings to bring the cost down. And that's without any of the most expensive point per dollar units like kataphrons or striders.

Im toying with the Idea to use Morgul knights, what do you think of this idea?
Its cheap, you get more, just have to buy oval bases
I have all the skitarii bits needed.
I can mechanize the Horse, give it a flamer for a head even.
Swap out the head and arms of the riders.
The masks, shields and lances can be used for hoplites and the 40mm bases for either sicarian variant

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788705.page

No, they'd be tiny.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, they'd be tiny.

They arent really that small in comparison I believe. I have a size comparison picture in the linked thread for anyone interested.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788705.page

 0XFallen wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, they'd be tiny.

They arent really that small in comparison I believe. I have a size comparison picture in the linked thread for anyone interested.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788705.page

Your comparison is based upon an assumption that the Serberys are based on 60x35mm bases...which doesn't seem to be the case. They seem to be on the 75x42mm bases, which are the 'nominal' cavalry bases for things that are new coming out.

The 75x42mm are what things like the Vanguard Palladors are on. Yeah, the Morgul Knights would be tiny. And that's not even accounting for the fact that LOTR stuff tends to be truescale compared to 'normal' GW stuff.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/A-1hm_F19Xf~hI4~.jpg

I think they are the same base size as the arquebus, but I cant tell 100% until they are released. Atm I can only dream it would work

New article is up, which is where that photo comes from.

Holy craaaaaaaaaaaaaap.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 0XFallen wrote:

I think they are the same base size as the arquebus, but I cant tell 100% until they are released. Atm I can only dream it would work

This image gives a better sense of scale, as you can see the 'decking' that the one is on comes from the Sector Mechanicus kits. Leaning a bit more towards the 60 now, but it depends on if they photoshopped the Serberys in or not for the picture you used.

 Kanluwen wrote:
New article is up, which is where that photo comes from.

Holy craaaaaaaaaaaaaap.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 0XFallen wrote:

I think they are the same base size as the arquebus, but I cant tell 100% until they are released. Atm I can only dream it would work

Spoiler:

This image gives a better sense of scale, as you can see the 'decking' that the one is on comes from the Sector Mechanicus kits. Leaning a bit more towards the 60 now, but it depends on if they photoshopped the Serberys in or not for the picture you used.

Not terrible, but I'm guessing like every sniper unit in the game they've got like S4 Ap- D1 single shot Heavy weapons and they cost like 45ppm.

Gentlemen, we've done it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Gentlemen, we've done it.

"These electrofilaments break down enemy radio, psychic powers, audible yelling, warp magic, and the tyranid hive mind.

It is only a shame we can deploy them only as a special thingy on this one plane."

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Prices.

Start Collecting is reasonable. Rest....bit Oof.

About sister level so expected. It's the new price range for gw

wow... those ad mech rules are going to sell dem models eh..

Bye bye marine meta. Welcome ad mech meta (until the newest codex comes out for XYZ)

Eh. Unless you can start parking the flying base on top of enemy models, there's very few models with aura abilities that can't just walk away.

It'd be one thing if 'started turn within 6"' was the clause, but 'whilst within' means the character just takes a normal move and is fine. The unit being buffed is just fine staying close to the bird.

The Primary to Secondary characteristics is how Custom Traits should've been handled to begin with.

 Kanluwen wrote:
New article is up, which is where that photo comes from.

Holy craaaaaaaaaaaaaap.

Wow, that is really bad English. The first line is giving me conniptions.

Voss wrote:
Eh. Unless you can start parking the flying base on top of enemy models, there's very few models with aura abilities that can't just walk away.

It'd be one thing if 'started turn within 6"' was the clause, but 'whilst within' means the character just takes a normal move and is fine. The unit being buffed is just fine staying close to the bird.

The character can't make a normal move until their turn....so while it lasts through the enemy's turn?

That character's aura abilities are shutdown for your turn.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wow, that is really bad English. The first line is giving me conniptions.

Oh man. That is... wow.

They don't need a technical writer. They just need a proof reader who speaks English.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wow, that is really bad English. The first line is giving me conniptions.

Oh man. That is... wow.

They don't need a technical writer. They just need a proof reader who speaks English.

I fixed it in about a minute

This artifact allows models with ranged weapons in the unit to target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit

or alternatively

Ranged Weapon models in this unit that is equipped with this artifact can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit

Its probably still not perfect, but at least its passable.

Maybe they have actual monkeys writing the rules.
You know what they say, give enough monkeys with type writers and you'll eventually get Shakespeare.

It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Voss wrote:
Eh. Unless you can start parking the flying base on top of enemy models, there's very few models with aura abilities that can't just walk away.

It'd be one thing if 'started turn within 6"' was the clause, but 'whilst within' means the character just takes a normal move and is fine. The unit being buffed is just fine staying close to the bird.

Sisters need to be careful to prevent getting within 6" as they have hell of a big aura that is like 95% used in opponents turn. Can't walk away that.

Edit: depending on how much am firepower comes from -2 guns specifically

Well, my martian admech are sure liking these news. The canticle of giving+1strenght is going to be dope. Imagine that on dakkabots, or even combo with a Knight crusader (Knight of the cog stratagem). Hell's yeah.

*waits for new Daemons rules with heavy breathing*

One thing the flyer strat is good at though is not only forcing a move, but removing auras that effect you in your turn, like FNP,LD or invulns

It’s defo of high potential. Pleasingly, it’s not overly simple to pull off, as it’ll take a bit of planning.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Now you’ve included the melee weapons too, but only as long as the model carrying it also has a ranged weapon.
Which is a bit odd but OK. I mean if anyone in this setting was going to have rocket punches it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus…

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Now you’ve included the melee weapons too, but only as long as the model carrying it also has a ranged weapon.
Which is a bit odd but OK. I mean if anyone in this setting was going to have rocket punches it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus…

If they are in melee they'd be able to target the character anyway.
There is nothing in the rule that allows you to use your sword as a ranged weapon, or at more than melee range. The BRB is actually pretty clear on the process.
The extra effect that deals more damage specifically mentions a ranged weapon, so this rewrite would't buff melee weapons.

Range weapons that models in this unit are equipped with...
One word can make quite a difference. Just my opinion though.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wow, that is really bad English. The first line is giving me conniptions.

Oh man. That is... wow.

They don't need a technical writer. They just need a proof reader who speaks English.

I'm glad to see those record profits and price rises are being invested well lmao.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Now you’ve included the melee weapons too, but only as long as the model carrying it also has a ranged weapon.
Which is a bit odd but OK. I mean if anyone in this setting was going to have rocket punches it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus…

Not excusing GW's phrasing but hopefully this shows how rules writing is harder than it looks.

It should probably be:

"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Worth also noting that there have been occasions when the text used in community articles doesn't match up with the rulebooks. Not often, but it has happened (no idea why - seems silly)

 slave.entity wrote:

Not excusing GW's phrasing but hopefully this shows how rules writing is harder than it looks.

It should probably be:

"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

This isn't hard to understand when someone reads it without the intention of arguing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

Not excusing GW's phrasing but hopefully this shows how rules writing is harder than it looks.

It should probably be:

"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

This isn't hard to understand when someone reads it without the intention of arguing.

Understood =/= well written

There isn't any ambiguity in what the rule does. The first sentence is just awkward.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

Not excusing GW's phrasing but hopefully this shows how rules writing is harder than it looks.

It should probably be:

"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

This isn't hard to understand when someone reads it without the intention of arguing.

Oh, its certainly understandable, if you know the context.
Its just poor English, and is not becoming of a company who wants you to pay money for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Now you’ve included the melee weapons too, but only as long as the model carrying it also has a ranged weapon.
Which is a bit odd but OK. I mean if anyone in this setting was going to have rocket punches it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus…

Not excusing GW's phrasing but hopefully this shows how rules writing is harder than it looks.

It should probably be:

"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Except you wouldn't be able to use melee weapons with that phrasing, as you have to check for ranges when choosing a target, and melee weapons technically have no range. There will be rocket punching.
If more clarity is needed, then perhaps "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons may, in the shooting phase, target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit" would suffice.
Writing rules is indeed difficult though. That's still not an excuse for poor writing, especially from professionals.

It's presumably written that way so the unit can't snipe with the various shooty terrain features like the storm bolters on the munitorum cargo containers

but do get the the mortal wound on a 6+

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't hard to understand when someone reads it without the intention of arguing.

You're even going to defend poorly written rules that contain bad grammar?

 Virules wrote:
*waits for new Daemons rules with heavy breathing*

Same here...
We understood that this book is about admech release already.

Yeah, and today was the first time we saw an actual rules preview worth mentioning.

What all is there really to say about the Daemons in there anyways? It's the Slaanesh stuff, a name table, and some extra rules goodies...that wouldn't have been previewed yet anyways.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:


"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Except you wouldn't be able to use melee weapons with that phrasing, as you have to check for ranges when choosing a target, and melee weapons technically have no range. There will be rocket punching.
If more clarity is needed, then perhaps "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons may, in the shooting phase, target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit" would suffice.
Writing rules is indeed difficult though. That's still not an excuse for poor writing, especially from professionals.

The rule doesn't apply to melee weapons. Neither the original phrasing nor my revised phrasing put any kind of limitation on melee weapons. Not sure how you got "rocket punching" as a possible outcome.

 slave.entity wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:


"Ranged weapons equipped on models in this unit can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Except you wouldn't be able to use melee weapons with that phrasing, as you have to check for ranges when choosing a target, and melee weapons technically have no range. There will be rocket punching.
If more clarity is needed, then perhaps "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons may, in the shooting phase, target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit" would suffice.
Writing rules is indeed difficult though. That's still not an excuse for poor writing, especially from professionals.

The rule doesn't apply to melee weapons. Neither the original phrasing nor my revised phrasing put any kind of limitation on melee weapons. Not sure how you got "rocket punching" as a possible outcome.

Sorry, I was referring to this

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "an artefact". It's a rule for the unit, Serberys Raiders.
It's not tied to a specific weapon, it's tied to the models themselves.

Ok, I was mistaken. Its still a poorly written rule.
It should be "Models in this unit that are equipped with ranged weapons can target a Character unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit"

Now you’ve included the melee weapons too, but only as long as the model carrying it also has a ranged weapon.
Which is a bit odd but OK. I mean if anyone in this setting was going to have rocket punches it’d be the Adeptus Mechanicus…

Q27: Will future codexes need older books to function?
Stu - The plan is to take the "best of" PA content and incorporate a future codex. Every Stratagem and Relic may not necessarily make the cut.

Man, as if the PA series wasn't a hard enough sell with the reveal of 9th, now they're saying that certain parts of them won't even be included when the Codices get updated.

Ouch. Save your pennies kids. You'll need 'em for the price rise rather than for more soon-to-be-partially-invalidated PA books.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Q27: Will future codexes need older books to function?
Stu - The plan is to take the "best of" PA content and incorporate a future codex. Every Stratagem and Relic may not necessarily make the cut.

Man, as if the PA series wasn't a hard enough sell with the reveal of 9th, now they're saying that certain parts of them won't even be included when the Codices get updated.

Ouch. Save your pennies kids. You'll need 'em for the price rise rather than for more soon-to-be-partially-invalidated PA books.

For those of us who don’t play Marines I expect it to be at least a year (probably longer)before we can expect a new codex. I imagine we will get plenty of use out of Engine War before then.

Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

This was the first proper ‘Psychic Awakening’ rules preview we’ve had. The other factions will get theirs this week too, like in the lead up week to every other PA book preorder. The AdMech unit rules were presumably shown in previous weeks to make up articles in the weeks worth of content they had to fill without releasing anything.

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Strange how the faction with the most new content coming out gets the most previews, huh. Next you'll be pointing out how 40k gets more preview articles than AoS over the next month. Curious what you'll say when we get dozens of articles on the entire Necron range being redesigned.

 xttz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Strange how the faction with the most new content coming out gets the most previews, huh. Next you'll be pointing out how 40k gets more preview articles than AoS over the next month. Curious what you'll say when we get dozens of articles on the entire Necron range being redesigned.

They could have switched it up and gone Demons, Knights, Choas knights then admech to you know balance some of the love around and keep the admech hype till friday now I'm quite frankly concerned that the demons stuff is being held back as it's actually nothing new mostly reprints going from the content pages and knights get so little anyway they will have tiny previres or everything's going to be in the artical anyway.

Ice_can wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Strange how the faction with the most new content coming out gets the most previews, huh. Next you'll be pointing out how 40k gets more preview articles than AoS over the next month. Curious what you'll say when we get dozens of articles on the entire Necron range being redesigned.

They could have switched it up and gone Demons, Knights, Choas knights then admech to you know balance some of the love around and keep the admech hype till friday now I'm quite frankly concerned that the demons stuff is being held back as it's actually nothing new mostly reprints going from the content pages and knights get so little anyway they will have tiny previres or everything's going to be in the artical anyway.

generally GW faction focuses on one and then moves to the next. we're only on tuesday, with the pre-orders up saturday, chances are we'll see wendsday devoted to knights, thursday chaos knights and friday deamons (or something along those lines)

 ImAGeek wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

This was the first proper ‘Psychic Awakening’ rules preview we’ve had. The other factions will get theirs this week too, like in the lead up week to every other PA book preorder. The AdMech unit rules were presumably shown in previous weeks to make up articles in the weeks worth of content they had to fill without releasing anything.

Not true. New admech units were previewed before, their datasheets are printed in engine war, and they are released with engine war. Therefore, those previews were also engine war rules previews.

Ice_can wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Strange how the faction with the most new content coming out gets the most previews, huh. Next you'll be pointing out how 40k gets more preview articles than AoS over the next month. Curious what you'll say when we get dozens of articles on the entire Necron range being redesigned.

They could have switched it up and gone Demons, Knights, Choas knights then admech to you know balance some of the love around and keep the admech hype till friday now I'm quite frankly concerned that the demons stuff is being held back as it's actually nothing new mostly reprints going from the content pages and knights get so little anyway they will have tiny previres or everything's going to be in the artical anyway.

Generally first preview would be expected to be on the one that is most featured in the book...

But yeah. Let's start on smallest ones just to satisfy internet complainers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

This was the first proper ‘Psychic Awakening’ rules preview we’ve had. The other factions will get theirs this week too, like in the lead up week to every other PA book preorder. The AdMech unit rules were presumably shown in previous weeks to make up articles in the weeks worth of content they had to fill without releasing anything.

Not true. New admech units were previewed before, their datasheets are printed in engine war, and they are released with engine war. Therefore, those previews were also engine war rules previews.

Whcih were ad tempora out of normal order of operations because of corona.

Now they are on standard process that was written in preparation even before corona lockdown. They should go and redo already done work just to satisfy forum whiners? Lol. It's sooooooooo earthshattering for random people in network to get daemon preview now rather than say tomorrow. They can do sooooooooo much with gaming and painting thanks to that! Or not...

Choas Knights preview is up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/27/new-rules-for-chaos-knights/

Households are a thing, new warlord traits and relics along with build your own house, but buidk your own looks a bit meh to be honest at first glance, probably going to be better off with one of the named ones.

That wardog strat is pretty tastey!

So are these ontop of the rules for Iconoclast etc or instead of

Apologies if the following has already been posted...

It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Eating Crow yet? Chaos Knights!

 Tamwulf wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Eating Crow yet? Chaos Knights!

Ooh, maybe we'll get daemons tomorrow!

Archeopter for 100? :/

Maybe they'll release it in a start collecting! in a few years...

Deep strike for War Dogs

 Tamwulf wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, another admech preview yesterday. Is it the fifth, sixth, or seventh ? I stopped counting. Let me predict another admech preview for today, because imperium. Nothing else matters.

Eating Crow yet? Chaos Knights!

I meant tomorrow when i said today

 GaroRobe wrote:
Archeopter for 100? :/

Maybe they'll release it in a start collecting! in a few years...

Yeah, these prices do not bode well for the upcoming Necron Release...

Or any release at all, out side of the occasional 'Start Collecting' box!

Ouch!

Higher prices for Start Collecting, higher prices for Starter sets, and just higher prices in general. Fun times indeed

I wonder if the Wardog deepstrike will be best used on the shooty version as a way to make sure you get a full turn of firing your autocannons before the enemy can shoot you? And with a range of 60" on the autocannons you can easily come in on your own board edge and still be in range.

All these deep strike strategms seem oddly pointless when they've already said that 9th will give you the option to hold anything in reserve for cp. What's the point of having any of these specific strategms if these books were written with 9th in mind?

 GaroRobe wrote:
Higher prices for Start Collecting, higher prices for Starter sets, and just higher prices in general. Fun times indeed

Start Collecting: Skitarii right now is $95.
The new one is:
$30 Techpriest Enginseer
$75 Skorpius Disintegrator/Dunerider
$40 Skitarii(price raise has them going to $44)

Old one is:
$36 Techpriest Dominus
$75 Onager(which no longer can squadron, one of the big draws of the old set)
$40 Skitarii(raise has them going to $44)

You get $151 of content in the old one vs $145...but since Onagers aren't a double build unit and aren't able to be squadroned anymore and Dominus are fairly hefty pointswise, who the hell cares?

Indeed. The new one is arguably better value, precisely because the Scorpius is a dual kit - and I’m not spending money for yet another bloody Dominus

I really, really wish GW could come up with faction rules that are something other than modifier to a dice roll/stat or ignoring some sort of core rule/restriction. That sort of thing really just drives power creep in an unhelpful way, and ends up getting repeated a lot across different factions.

Octovol wrote:
All these deep strike strategms seem oddly pointless when they've already said that 9th will give you the option to hold anything in reserve for cp. What's the point of having any of these specific strategms if these books were written with 9th in mind?

Not sure, we'll have to see how the 9E rules play out, but it also wouldn't be the first time GW updated a faction with abilities at the tail end of an edition that turned out to be largely superfluous

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

This is sadly the case with most of the start collecting sets, with GW's horrendous pricing you really need to try and get the value sets where possible (or perhaps stop buying GW) but so few of them are worth buying multiples of, the Imperial Guard is probably the best one but even then you end up with loads of commisars

 Huron black heart wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted in other region prices, not USD.

$60 for Pteraxii is stupid. It's just stupid.
It's Electropriests level of stupid. I have zero Electropriests and it looks like I will have zero Pteraxii.

The SC is $95 rather than $100, which is legitimately a great deal as the Skorpius and Techpriest alone are $105, the Skitarii bring it up to $149 once the price bump hits. So you save $50.

Of course these costs are insane for those solo boxes. Ad Mech is one of the worst point per dollar value armies out there. It's only gotten worse as time goes on, like the walkers and since the skittari came out they've had two price rises at least. Not even mentioning the intensely over costed electro priests box. The start collecting box is a good buy. The only thing that makes me sad is I don't really need the tech priest, and have 70 skittari already. So a good buy and if I had anyone around here who needed the other units, it would be golden for me. Pretty nice for a new player or one who has only a small bit of stuff so far.

This is sadly the case with most of the start collecting sets, with GW's horrendous pricing you really need to try and get the value sets where possible (or perhaps stop buying GW) but so few of them are worth buying multiples of, the Imperial Guard is probably the best one but even then you end up with loads of commisars

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

the_scotsman wrote:

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

The Guard one is the only way, currently, to get heavy weapon options for a Guard Infantry or Veteran Squad 'baked in' with the troops themselves.
Remember that there used to be a Heavy Weapons Team box for $15(though it initially dropped at $10 or so) that was a single HWT and then the Heavy Weapon Squad box at $40(which started off at $30).
Crisis Suits were stupidly priced too. Even at $95 the Tau SC is basically the only way I'd go to get Fire Warriors or Crisis Suits. I just dump the Ethereal into a drawer for a painting project or potential conversions down the road.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

yeah that would be pretty punishing- minimum Rubrics here we come if that's the case

It would be punishing for basically every army except those with Combat Squad.

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

And if GW is anything like consistent with their spoilers we can now be certain that Daemons are getting gak for useful rules.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

I'm pretty sure 6 or more is the 9th edition 'horde' designation.

I just didn't know what it did. If all it means is variable damage weapons do full damage without a roll, that's not the worst thing on Earth.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Honestly I think IG is one of the lower value ones. GSC, Tau, old admech, new admech as well honestly, all get you pretty significant savings over the individual kits. the IG one if you ignore the commissar gets you like a free 1/3 of a HWT and six bucks off a leman russ.

That has more to do with IG having less inflated prices than everyone (right now, price change pending of course) than everyone else having better value. The Tau one is like 95 for the SC set, 75$ for one of the kits in the SC set lol.

The Guard one is the only way, currently, to get heavy weapon options for a Guard Infantry or Veteran Squad 'baked in' with the troops themselves.
Remember that there used to be a Heavy Weapons Team box for $15(though it initially dropped at $10 or so) that was a single HWT and then the Heavy Weapon Squad box at $40(which started off at $30).
Crisis Suits were stupidly priced too. Even at $95 the Tau SC is basically the only way I'd go to get Fire Warriors or Crisis Suits. I just dump the Ethereal into a drawer for a painting project or potential conversions down the road.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Fingers crossed, "6 or more" isn't what we're considering Hordes in the new edition.

Could just be 6+ models to match up with the guns firing 6 shots.

Octovol wrote:
All these deep strike strategms seem oddly pointless when they've already said that 9th will give you the option to hold anything in reserve for cp. What's the point of having any of these specific strategms if these books were written with 9th in mind?

Reserves having to come in from a table edge is significantly less flexible than a straight Deep Strike. That might not sound like much but it can be huge in-game.

I would bet it's not as this is a strateguns to turn a 2d3 weapon into a 6 shot weapon, they heavily implied that blast weapons would just have an inate ability against hordes. This is probably going to keep gravis and cent squads honest at 5 models but probably very unlikely to really be played.

Dunno dude.

Seems useful for obliterating a unit of anything Primaris? And for one 1 CP, when it is useful seems kinda no-brained?

The Harlequin Death Jester pivotal role harvester of Torment also has the rule of exploding hits vs a unit with 6 or more models so the 6+ is certainly a thing in new 40k.
Perhaps it's tiered. 1-5 is your usual shots, 6-10 has these special rules scattered, 11+ is horde? Seems overly complicated, so unlikely.
Only GW could think that 6+ models is a horde, yikes.

 Spreelock wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

Imperial Knights are next

Obviously saving best until last then!

And how about that gatler getting auto hits within 8"? Ouch.

Although, looking ahead.....wraithknight suncannon vs 6+ models now? Maybe getting maxed shots.

6+ makes perfect sense. A choice is often between 5 or 10 man unit (9 in case of heavy weapon infantry squad.) Units larger than ten are relatively rare, so having a rule that only affects them but not IG infantry squads would seem unnecessary. But it cannot be ten because then people would just use nine person squads. So this is actually reasonable.