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 Virules wrote:
What are the chances that tomorrow announces pre-order coming up for Engine War?

Also, still no news on final May preview to show off remaining Adepticon announcements?

To be fair I expect gw to start with the pre-orders that where put on hold at the beginning of corona, so until they're up for pre-orders I don'expect anything new. And personaly I expect that pre-orders start a bit after the factories have started running again

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't going to get released until they can open up their stores.

Their stores are open in most major markets.

Except, y'know, the one they are based in

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
This isn't going to get released until they can open up their stores.

Their stores are open in most major markets.

Not in their home market yet, the aim for UK stores opening is July-ish, so that might be the very earliest. Given the English (since the rest of Britain are taking a different stance) response so far, I feel like it might take longer than that.

They've pretty much shipped out all the saga of the beast backlog already, anyone I know that bought from a third party had their order fulfilled, all the social sites that the 3rd parties communicate on have since received massive shipments from GW to restock everyone.

If we're assuming that everything is all already manufactured and sitting in warehouses then I don't see what the difference is other than the opportunity to market it to everyone.

I guess there's a significant portion of people that don't order online and they could be waiting for the physical shops to open sure. But as mentioned if they're waiting for the go-ahead from the UK government for the GW stores to open they'll be waiting a LONG time to make anything out of that warehouse space.

Maybe they're just banking on sales of hobby supplies to get them through June?

They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

The Swooping Hawks seem inferior in almost every way that actually matters. Sure they move an extra 2" and have an extra +2 Ld, but these Pteraxii get all +1S, +1W, +1A. Their weapons get 1 extra shot and their grenade packs do MW on 5+ vs. Hawks' 6+ and have an extra +2 to the roll against vehicles, so 3+ vs. vehicles.

That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're still selling models right now.

The biggest thing to consider is that GW uses the 'free shipping' to their stores as a big draw. Plus they have deals in place with shipping companies to get their stock moving.

As it stands right now, here in the US? Only shop I'm aware of as 'open' is Warhammer Citadel down in Texas--and that's a big location, which they don't have open for anything other than curbside pickups or scheduled walk-ins.

Pteraxii article

YAY! Grenades are back finally for AdMech!

Wow, they really are just literally Swooping Hawks+1, that's hilarious. This unit gets grenade packs you say? Well, we'll make a unit with the exact same stats except 2W and 2A, with 1 extra shot for their guns, and unlimited grenade packs instead of once per game!

More like, hey DE you like that 1CP strat eviscerating flyby, well admech get it as a special rule, but also it is just plain better verse vehicles. On a unit that looks no more bulky then a hellion yet has 2 wounds, better save, combat and ranged fire lmao.

It's fething sweet for admech players, not hating on it at all, just really wish they could apply rules like this to other factions with garbage units.

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
That's the problem with so many Imperium related releases. Sooner or later, GW re-uses an existing concept that another non-Imperial army has, and one up it as part of the general power creep.

Not just with Imperium related releases. The new havoc weapon is basically the same concept as a heavy bolter, except it gets almost 3 times the number of shots because reason.

Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

At the least there should have been more of a meaningful tradeoff in return for some of their capabilities instead of being nearly all round better. Right now the only even semi-weakness is maybe trying to force them to fail Morale and melt away?

pm713 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Hey, so how are we going to make this new flying infantry unit with an anti-light infantry weapon distinct from swooping hawks?"

"Uhhh I dunno, probably let's just make them exactly the same but 1 extra shot because new kit lolololol."

Flamer pteraxi and the fire breathing doglads seem extremely stronk.

It leaves me feeling like they're going to be Hawks but better which is awful.

Well well well. Sometimes being right is very unsatisfying.

I wonder how many releases they have queued with those abysmal flight stands before the feedback as to how bad they are gets through.

Or do they just not care?

Iracundus wrote:

Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

AdMech lost their one and only grenade unit(Ruststalkers with transonic razor and chordclaws) when 8th dropped. This is the first time in 8th we've gotten grenades available to us. We also knew from the outset these units were Sicarian(meaning 2W).

At the least there should have been more of a meaningful tradeoff in return for some of their capabilities instead of being nearly all round better. Right now the only even semi-weakness is maybe trying to force them to fail Morale and melt away?

Right now the tradeoff seems to be that those grenades are tied to the unit that doesn't want to be in combat. There's also no mention of holding them in reserve for deep strike or anything.

They look tougher than Helions in every visual and lore way I can see. The +1 W is very intuitiv as they are more machine than man, any damaged parts are cut of from the system and they will be forced to fight until they either die or the battle is over. What doesnt make sense is their abysmal leadership in 8th, oh and the abundance of stubbers.

The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

Well Sicarians are kinda baby Primaris with longer legs, and Primaris were released much later

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

Eh, in all honesty if they're anything like sicarians, they'll just be a glass cannon.

I'm betting that the not-hawks will be utter crap tier, because they'll never get to use the power budget shifted into their flyby attack, and the flamer ones will be low to mid tier and extremely dependent on getting into combat to make their points back, which they'll have to do with no native charge range buffs.

I could be wrong, and they could be super underpriced, but Admech has a ton of supremely terrible, supremely expensive elite infantry with gakky defenses and super high point costs.

In actual operation the flamer pteraxi will probably operate like a more expensive flamer of tzeentch with no invuln save and T3 instead of T4. And flamers of tzeentch are hardly anywhere near OP.

The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

3-4 mortal wounds is something that's probably gonna be more expensive and overall not worth it. Unless GW makes them fairly underpriced (which to be fair they might) they are a one trick pony. Flamer dudes can be super aggressive which I'm definitely thinking is more necessary for the army. Without doing mortal wounds the Flechette guys are just another high RoF unit, and we got that in spades.

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

the_scotsman wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

You are right, but we every bit against vehicles counts, or we build lists like the Skorpius spam that kills hordes and ties everything else that we cant kill up in melee xd.

Skitarii in general and Sicarians especially need their 5+++ and LD back, otherwise they will remain as expensive cannonfodder.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The article says they get 3 attacks on the charge. So they apparently have their own version of shock assault. So with that stat line they're basically baby primaris with wings.

Yay power creep.

It's explained in the article. Also, the Talons give you +1S if charging or heroic intervention.

the_scotsman wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The the flamer dudes serve more a purpose than the Carbine ones, which is what makes them even more sad.

Im not sure about that, imo they, and the other new units serve several roles we lack.
1. Movement
2. holding forward objectives ( flyers can disengage and still shoot, flamers are a good charge deterrent), but they will most likely be shot off the board and run away with their bad leadership without aquisition at any cost.
3. Anti vehicle weapons (Only the grenades and the twinlascannon on the aircraft). We only have chip damage with Arc weaponry, the not so great because of randomness and low number of shots neutron laser
4. Semi reliable MW output without melee or wrath of mars

They have a .66 chance of doing 1 MW to a vehicle, right? That's not so much an anti-vehicle unit right there. They're an anti-chaff unit with a little ability to threaten elites.

But most likely, they're an expensive sponge for enemy D2 weaponry to make you scoop off the board in 2 seconds after you spent 10 hours painting the squad.

You know, like 98% of the units in 40k currently.

It's. 66 per model in the squad, not to mention will GW kindly stop handing out MW like candy FFS it's making armour saves and invulnerable saves meaningless and perpetuating the cycle from invulnerable or Bust to now FNP or bust.

They're either going to be rediculous bordering on OP or they are going to be an insaine amount of PPM like they have to be over 20ppm closer to 30 ppm or more thr way they have stacked rules right now.

EDIT

Iracundus wrote:
Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

If it happens intra-Imperium, intra-xenos, imperium to xenos and xenos to imperium, then how is the imperium part relevant?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Though it may happen with non-Imperial from time to time, the sheer number of Imperial releases means it happens more often with the Imperium borrowing a concept and one upping it than the other way around.

If it happens intra-Imperium, intra-xenos, imperium to xenos and xenos to imperium, then how is the imperium part relevant?

The Imperium borrowing rules or concepts from xenos armies and one upping them seemingly far more often than xenos borrowing rules or concepts from the Imperium. The sheer number of Imperial options also then means the potential for unforeseen (by GW) synergies to emerge.

That seems like what would naturally occur given the relative numbers of releases.

As a Sisters player, a bit jealous Ad Mech flamers get AP-1 12 inch range no cover...but you do you Ad Mech. I'll settle that jealousy on the tabletop with a newfound envy. Love the challenge. Suppose all said and done, the points cost will be the nail, or lack thereof, in the coffin.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
As a Sisters player, a bit jealous Ad Mech flamers get AP-1 12 inch range no cover...but you do you Ad Mech. I'll settle that jealousy on the tabletop with a newfound envy. Love the challenge. Suppose all said and done, the points cost will be the nail, or lack thereof, in the coffin.

Yeah, kinda mad my Salamanders(ya know, the guys who kinda are known for flame & burning gak) dont get bonus to flamers.

But I am happy about the sterylizors, my Metallica are sending out sensory augurs, calculating best possible use for tactical scenarios. Just not sure if I'll run them as I feel Sulphurhounds fill the gaps in my Maniple. Will buy & paint some Sterylizors cuz the models kick ass no matter what.