Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s still you, that is.

Really dude? It's selling out everywhere, sometimes within minutes, and you're going to insult people over it?

There will be more, because ether are people that didn’t get to buy it and GW aren’t going to miss the opportunity to sell it to them (me). We will have to wait a bit and I have lots of minis to paint.

However I’d like to know how many people bought 3 boxes with the intention of selling 2 of them. I have already seen that you can pre order one of the armies form the boxes set on eBay at more than the half the price of the box.

Why wasn’t it one per household during the pre order phase

daisy666 wrote:
This certainly was worse than the Shadow War Armageddon launch, which was as bad as I've ever seen.

I dunno if it's worse than that release. I had to show up at GW on the day to get a copy of that, and the flagship store for my entire country was allotted, wait for it, 4 whole copies!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s still you, that is.

Really dude? It's selling out everywhere, sometimes within minutes, and you're going to insult people over it?

Well, selling out within minutes, hours or days is better than having produced a non-seller.
As a long-term Necron player attending several tournies in the 6th and 7th, I will not jump on this ''bandwagon'' and wait and see what Necron units are useful to integrate into a competitive Necron list.
The rule book is also not mandatory as our gaming group will have one.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

 wuestenfux wrote:

The rule book is also not mandatory as our gaming group will have one.

Chapter Approved includes a small-format spiral-bound copy of the rules that is vastly better for gaming anyway.

The limited edition book is very poor compared to dark imperium. No extras at all, just the same book with a different cover. Odd

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s still you, that is.

Really dude? It's selling out everywhere, sometimes within minutes, and you're going to insult people over it?

Its because he wouldnt let it lie and may well be a workshy fop

Wow, I admit I was wrong. Sold out FAR quicker than I expected.

It truly amazes people are defending GW still. As if the fact it's now in the hands of ebay scalpers is a good thing. It's not. Poor little old GW arent some start up that have been caught unaware by the demand for their new product. They purposefully under produced this box to gurantee maximum sales with minimum loss. Theyve been hyping it for over a month and it sells out in 14 minutes it's all part of their plan. Its cynical and anti consumer and it's why I didnt even try to purchase this box. It's a disgrace.

 Asmodai wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

The rule book is also not mandatory as our gaming group will have one.

Chapter Approved includes a small-format spiral-bound copy of the rules that is vastly better for gaming anyway.

Thanks good to know. Seems like a solid investment.

I too misjudged GW's marketing strategy for indomitus it seems. I now think the first run was deliberately kept to a modest quantity as to gauge interest. The "real" production run of indomitus is underway, and the bigger wave will follow late august. Good old bait and switch. If someone was on the fence about buying the box, they'll be buying it in august for sure now as they missed out on the first wave.

Pretty clever innit

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Please show me where I'm actually wrong though.

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Wayland games on its preorder page stated that some people would not receive their order until late August when the second wave would drop

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Please show me where I'm actually wrong though.

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Sounds familiar enough. Just like people already moaning that they "have to" spend 4x12 GBP / year for the upcoming app

Given that the core rules of 9th are free and just about everyone on this board already has a 40K army (or several), I have a hard time understanding how missing out on the indomitus box would prevent anyone from playing..

 Kanluwen wrote:

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Thing is, it's GW who made that situation with their tight control of information, putting doubt in what will come next and putting the emphasis of limited stocks for their launch box in their news.

Who is guilty, the hunter setting up the trap or the fox falling to it ? Pretty much the same dilemna.

You're obviously blaming the fox.

The funny thing is that if GW didn't say anything about boxes being limited, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have sold out as fast. Some rumors said the number of boxes were set to those sold in the two month when Dark Imperium was live.

Of course people would rush to pre-order several boxes once confirmation is made they wouldn't be available for the duration of V9 edition. And of course we would have Ebay carrions taking advantage of this.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Please show me where I'm actually wrong though.

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Yes. GW certainly had no hand in hyping up their products.

Sarouan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Thing is, it's GW who made that with their tight control of information, putting doubt in what will come next and putting the emphasis of limited stocks for their launch box in their news.

Who is guilty, the hunter setting up the trap or the fox falling to it ? Pretty much the same dilemna.

You're obviously blaming the fox.

You are implying that humans eat miniatures for sustenance? Cute

Anyways, I'm out of here. Got nothing more to add

 Knockagh wrote:
The limited edition book is very poor compared to dark imperium. No extras at all, just the same book with a different cover. Odd

Don't forget gold gilded edges and a "antique map with cracked varnish, creating the effect of an ancient chart."

Lovely looking book to be sure, but I wouldn't be taking it with me outside of the house.

tauist wrote:


You are implying that humans eat miniatures for sustenance? Cute

You're voluntarily missing the point, so that you don't try to think about it. You know what I really meant here.

Popped to my local store this morning and offered a deposit for my boxes. They declined as they would rather have physical possession of the boxes before charging.

Won't lie, got me a bit concerned.

It's a heck of a deal even if they are push fit models. Rule book and close to 2000 (9th edition) points for a ton, boom.

Simple Simon wrote:
Popped to my local store this morning and offered a deposit for my boxes. They declined as they would rather have physical possession of the boxes before charging.

Won't lie, got me a bit concerned.

It's a heck of a deal even if they are push fit models. Rule book and close to 2000 (9th edition) points for a ton, boom.

I am sure I recall GW saying that once they sell, they are gone. It sold out on the GW store for pre-orders in under 35 minutes.
The website crashed several times in that time too.

I have a copy on order with my FLGS and they confirmed they have been given their quota so I should have a box.

I know several stores orders have been cut back and GW have told shops to not promise copies they aren't definitely getting:
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/warhammer-40k-indomitus-sold-out.html

stratigo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Please show me where I'm actually wrong though.

Because we've done this dance time and time again with starters for 40k and AoS. It's always that the players getting themselves hyped up about how they "need" to make a whole army out of the newest things.

Yes. GW certainly had no hand in hyping up their products.

Nope. Everyone imagined the daily articles, the 'best ever box set,' 'we made lots,' the preorder limits changing (due to the in-depth research conducted....overnight) from 6 to 3 so they could explain vital importance of preordering right now, etc, etc.

Yes, once Indomitus sells through--it's gone.

The models within aren't though. They made it sound like there's an actual starter set coming down the road.

GW said they are making one batch of stock and once that is sold its gone. Now it might be that from that batch they are splitting it into two or more production/packing waves.

It might also be that they've not put up all the stock for sale in one go and are teasing it out a bit. Or that they are expecting to get "stock back" in the form of regional stock getting reallocated from places that didn't sell out. etc....


In general though once the stock is gone its gone; we just have no idea how much they started with nor how much has been sold.

Well, I know those guys from our gaming group eager to get a shiny new boxed set.
Some of them promised to start a Necron army. This sounds more like a threat.
Most of them have no idea how to play any army out there in the 40k universe.
Rant over.
I can wait for the Necron unit when they are regularly released.
My motto here is: Stay cool and delay.

 Overread wrote:
GW said they are making one batch of stock and once that is sold its gone. Now it might be that from that batch they are splitting it into two or more production/packing waves.

It might also be that they've not put up all the stock for sale in one go and are teasing it out a bit. Or that they are expecting to get "stock back" in the form of regional stock getting reallocated from places that didn't sell out. etc....


In general though once the stock is gone its gone; we just have no idea how much they started with nor how much has been sold.

And GW..... lies. And right now they are pushing "BUY NOW! DON'T THINK! JUST BUY! NOW!".

stratigo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW said they are making one batch of stock and once that is sold its gone. Now it might be that from that batch they are splitting it into two or more production/packing waves.

It might also be that they've not put up all the stock for sale in one go and are teasing it out a bit. Or that they are expecting to get "stock back" in the form of regional stock getting reallocated from places that didn't sell out. etc....


In general though once the stock is gone its gone; we just have no idea how much they started with nor how much has been sold.

And GW..... lies. And right now they are pushing "BUY NOW! DON'T THINK! JUST BUY! NOW!".

How are they telling lies? This boxed set is in limited quantity. GW is not producing them forever and surely this mornings massive sellout shows that it was most certainly a limited product. Even accounting for those who have bought a box just for the rules and will sell off both the model sets (basically meaning they got a free rulebook even if they sell the models at £60 each which is the fair price most consider for a split army content without profiting).

Sure we know that the rulebook, models and all other content is not limited production, but the SALE price for the boxed set is the limited element.

 Overread wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW said they are making one batch of stock and once that is sold its gone. Now it might be that from that batch they are splitting it into two or more production/packing waves.

It might also be that they've not put up all the stock for sale in one go and are teasing it out a bit. Or that they are expecting to get "stock back" in the form of regional stock getting reallocated from places that didn't sell out. etc....


In general though once the stock is gone its gone; we just have no idea how much they started with nor how much has been sold.

And GW..... lies. And right now they are pushing "BUY NOW! DON'T THINK! JUST BUY! NOW!".

How are they telling lies? This boxed set is in limited quantity. GW is not producing them forever and surely this mornings massive sellout shows that it was most certainly a limited product. Even accounting for those who have bought a box just for the rules and will sell off both the model sets (basically meaning they got a free rulebook even if they sell the models at £60 each which is the fair price most consider for a split army content without profiting).

Sure we know that the rulebook, models and all other content is not limited production, but the SALE price for the boxed set is the limited element.

You misunderstand. I don't know if GW are lying right now, whether blatantly or with subtlety. But GW lies regularly and taking their words at face value in this isn't necessarily useful or productive. Will they do another release? Maybe, regardless of what GW says or what they imply.

GW is a 'Hanlon's razor' exemplar.

If this was all that they had in stock, even with the demand I feel like they absolutely did not make enough if it sold out so quick. 'Enough' to me should last at wast half an hour, yet they're gone already?

AFAIK, all we have now are rumors of a wave two (just like COVID!), yet what can we expect to see there?

I managed to get the 2 copies I wanted (assuming my LGS didn't get snubbed), but 14 minutes is far too quick IMHO for a stockpile of 'lots'

This was wrong!

It took 15 minutes in the UK!

Thread closed

I love how they now after the rush have added larger collections of the indomitus box paired with all the books and/or primaris units on the store page... That you can't buy since the indomitus box is sold out.

I must like crow, because I am sure eating a bunch right now.

The two week pre-order window had me convinced that they had enough stock through July 20. Not sure why GW advertised a two-week pre-order window if it was going to sell out in 15 minutes.

Will be interesting to see how GW spins this.

Got about two hours to go before pre-orders go live in the US. Plan to be at my FLGS when they open to place my pre-order as I really want to give them my business, but it sounds like they will be fine without my business on this go around, so will be ready to order from GW directly.

For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

They've already told stores there'll be a second wave coming in August, so obviously the "it's only one print run!" thing - which they were careful not to actually say themselves, but happy to have people misunderstand them as saying - was not true.

They underestimated the demand (whether deliberately or not), but it's always better to underestimate than overestimate. Per the modern PR handbook, as long as you have a lock on the market, a shortage of your product is actually not a problem, as it just drives people to greater frenzies of FOMO.

Actually no stores have been told a second wave is being produced that is false. So far we have no word on an actual production re run. And GW creating this FOMO is a massive problem it embitters people against each other and creates a landscape of haves and have nots. They need to pull their finger out and actually start producing stuff in the right quantities it's a disgraceful shambles.

I think having a 2 week pre-order window is more about giving them extra time to package and distribute all of the boxes, rather than giving people more time to pre-order. Even though this sold out incredibly quickly, I'm sure they've got a huge number of boxes to ship.

They do seem to have a hard time gauging demand for these products. It's certainly skewed towards underestimating how many they'll need (this box and the Sororitas box being prime examples, and good number of the other boxes have been in fairly short supply), but it does go the other way too with boxes like Blood of the Phoenix and Wrath and Rapture that were around for ages.

I'd expect from an accounting point of view, their ideal position would be if they had produced the exact number of boxes to meet demand, because then they get maximum profit and no wastage. Under-produce and you leave money on the table because people wanted the product and can't buy it, and make said people rather angry. Over-produce and you're left paying for and sitting on a load of stock that isn't shifting. It certainly seems that they prefer the former of those two options - though with a box like this that's such a good value proposition I'm sure it wouldn't have any trouble selling rather well after the initial release. Making it a limited box to begin with probably tells us that they didn't want it around for long though - probably because they don't want it to impact on sales of the regular kits once they're out. And I can only assume that the regular kits have a higher profit margin on them than boxes like this.

Still, ignoring the accountants, it seems to be a dubious move to keep having these FOMO-induced webstore crashing pre-order panics.

As to producing more, as others have said, it's not quite as simple as it may seem. Packaging, books, booklets (and for other boxed games, things like cardstock) need to be ordered from the printers, and they'll come with a not-insignificant lead time. It'll take time to get the order printed up in China, and I assume they're then shipped to the UK via container ship. Plus GW then has to rearrange their factory schedule, possibly delaying other upcoming releases, or neglecting restocking existing products where their stock levels are already suffering because of the COVID related factory shutdown. So I'd expect a second printing to have a lead time of at least a month or two - which would tie in with the reports from various retailers that they're expecting a second wave in late August. I also wouldn't be surprised if this does affect their release schedule for the next couple of months. The other thing that needs to be factored into a second print run is quantity. The printed components from China will have price breaks depending on the size of the order - the more they order, the cheaper it'll be per unit. So they probably need to be sure that there's enough demand for a substantial second print run before committing, because a smaller print run will come with higher per-unit costs and cut into their profit margins. Seeing how fast this was selling to trade accounts even before sales opened to the public probably convinced them that there was enough demand that they could do a big (and therefore low unit cost) second printing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Do we actually KNOW why it sold out in 15 minutes? Is it really GW knowingly producing less boxes than predicted demand? Was it GW simply underestimating demand? Did corona had anything to do with it? (probably yes because they had to shut down exactly in the weeks you'd expect factories to be running at 200% to produce as many boxes as possible for a July release) Are there simply a large amount of boxes reserved for retail? All possible reasons.

 harlokin wrote:
GW is a 'Hanlon's razor' exemplar.

They are the case study for the phenomena.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

You know how you had that little "accident" earlier today where you wound up with two sets instead of one when checking out at the GW store?

I think that condition is infectious and spreading.... only I think its mutated as I've only got one in any one specific "cart" but somehow I've now wound up with two sets!

Pandabeer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Do we actually KNOW why it sold out in 15 minutes? Is it really GW knowingly producing less boxes than predicted demand? Was it GW simply underestimating demand? Did corona had anything to do with it? (probably yes because they had to shut down exactly in the weeks you'd expect factories to be running at 200% to produce as many boxes as possible for a July release) Are there simply a large amount of boxes reserved for retail? All possible reasons.

GW tested the water with the SoB box and should've known better, honestly.
If you've not reached your production goal you should postpone a launch or move away from the "one round of boxes, that's it" idiocy that is limited edition boxes. Two easy fixes to this mess.

The two boxes I bought are now split by 4 people - 3 marine players and one guy starting a new necron army. Not exactly 'hyped into a frenzy", is it?

I wonder if it would be restocked on monday...Honestly I don't think GW would benefit from massive reselling

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

Thanks!

I ordered me a copy from them. One is enough. Just want the rulebook.

 Overread wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

You know how you had that little "accident" earlier today where you wound up with two sets instead of one when checking out at the GW store?

I think that condition is infectious and spreading.... only I think its mutated as I've only got one in any one specific "cart" but somehow I've now wound up with two sets!

Hey, that was a genuine accident! Albeit one I couldn’t be bothered to sort before checking out!

It’s found a home with my mate Ninja Chris, who is also doing swapsies with me.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

You know how you had that little "accident" earlier today where you wound up with two sets instead of one when checking out at the GW store?

I think that condition is infectious and spreading.... only I think its mutated as I've only got one in any one specific "cart" but somehow I've now wound up with two sets!

Hey, that was a genuine accident!

Suuuuuuuuuure

Also the Firestorm Cards page no longer works for Indomitus - I think you should helped them shift 130odd units of stock in half an hour or less

Looks like it sold out in North America in -4 minutes due to going up early.

EDIT:

Or at the very least, something is very weird with GW's website. The French version now appears, but sold out, and the English version doesn't even seem to have a store page at the moment.

French version: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Indomitus-FR-US-2020-Promo

 Asmodai wrote:
Looks like it sold out in North America in -4 minutes due to going up early.

I was on 15min early and watched the change over to preorder. The boxset never showed up. Or it sold out in 1sec.

Yeah, basically an unmitigated disaster.

 Overread wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For folks in the UK, Firestorm Cards (not to be confused with Firestorm Games) still have around 180 copies at the time of typing.

You know how you had that little "accident" earlier today where you wound up with two sets instead of one when checking out at the GW store?

I think that condition is infectious and spreading.... only I think its mutated as I've only got one in any one specific "cart" but somehow I've now wound up with two sets!

Hey, that was a genuine accident!

Suuuuuuuuuure

Also the Firestorm Cards page no longer works for Indomitus - I think you should helped them shift 130odd units of stock in half an hour or less

Mischief Managed!

Yeah.. I've been watching.

They never uploaded a page for us to buy here in the US.

Did we seriously just get boned by GW?

Edit:
Nevermind. They literally uploaded the page right after I made this post.


...I just pre-ordered mine, but the site went down twice during the checkout page.
Aww yeah..

It's up gogogogogogog

Good luck to those of you on t'other side of the pond.

A bunch of amateur incompetents this is is a multi million dollar company and theyve failed to have enough stock or have a working website how many people have failed to get this due to GWs website not working throughout the day. It's a complete shambles a disgrace.

"Nurse! I think it is time for Icegoat's medication! He's wandering the halls again, ranting at the clouds!"

And its sold out absolute disgraceful muck up

Icegoat wrote:
A bunch of amateur incompetents this is is a multi million dollar company and theyve failed to have enough stock or have a working website how many people have failed to get this due to GWs website not working throughout the day. It's a complete shambles a disgrace.

The site went down a few times for me but I just refreshed the page with the fury of 1000 suns.

Limit was 1? Ship to Store defaulted I didnt bother trying to change. Lucky I guess

lol it looks like its completely sold out already.
The page was literally available for like, 10 minutes before it sold out. That beat the 15 minute record for the UK.

Didn't feel like 10 minutes tbh. More like 3-4 and all that time was spent loading the next page.

Sold out within 7min here in Canada

 FragTheCommissar wrote:
lol it looks like its completely sold out already.
The page was literally available for like, 10 minutes before it sold out. That beat the 15 minute record for the UK.

Seemed closer to 15 to me. But it crashed to the maintenance page several times, so its harder to say than it should be.
It took about 10 minutes to actually go up in the first place, which didn't help.

Voss wrote:

 FragTheCommissar wrote:
lol it looks like its completely sold out already.
The page was literally available for like, 10 minutes before it sold out. That beat the 15 minute record for the UK.

Seemed closer to 15 to me. But it crashed to the maintenance page several times, so its harder to say than it should be.
It took about 10 minutes to actually go up in the first place, which didn't help.

It went up at about 10:13am here.
I refreshed the page at 10:24am and it was sold out.

Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't sleep through this one.

Bloody rubbing it in a bit!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/11/indomitus-pre-orders-are-live/

As someone who missed out I think I'm done with this company for good. Great game I've played from the beginning of its existence but what Games Workshop has become.... infuriating.. I'm more mad at the company than happy with the game at this point.

The grievously rude and distasteful warhammer community post is a true gob of spit in the eye of all those who missed out. The shoddy website meant thousands could not get this box. And now they have the temerity to put a post on their main social website saying pre order now when the box has been out of stock since 10.14 this morning is a real kick in the teeth. They should be ashamed conducting business in this way it's so anti consumer and hurts the community as a whole.

TheMadRabbi wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
Looks like it sold out in North America in -4 minutes due to going up early.

I was on 15min early and watched the change over to preorder. The boxset never showed up. Or it sold out in 1sec.

No, it showed up. Didn't last long, but it showed up & I had the chance to order it.

I really don't think they're doing this intentionally. It simply wouldn't make any sense. Sure, scarcity can increase the demand, but this thing is a sure seller. They could have easily sold many, many times more if they had what to sell. It must be a production capacity issue, no doubt worsened by the plague.

Keep checking- looking like they may have opened the orders up again....

what a joke

Looks like they limited it to 1 order per GW account at least for the US. Good thing I created another new account with my payment info ready to go this morning before they went live. Box showed up like 8 minutes after 1:00 pm eastern. Managed to grab 2 of them im one lucky SOAB.

BlackOllie wrote:
As someone who missed out I think I'm done with this company for good. Great game I've played from the beginning of its existence but what Games Workshop has become.... infuriating.. I'm more mad at the company than happy with the game at this point.

You do realize that you didn't really miss out, right? Sure, you missed it right now. You missed a discount. But this stuff (the units) WILL be released in the near future.

And yes I will be painting and using all of the models, no ebay for these models : P

I hope this is true

That community article would've been written a week ago. It was always going to go up, just as all their "pre-orders are live now" articles go up.

And it seems some people bought quite a few boxes. Like... a lot of boxes.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Looks like they limited it to 1 order per GW account at least for the US. Good thing I created another new account with my payment info ready to go this morning before they went live. Box showed up like 8 minutes after 1:00 pm eastern. Managed to grab 2 of them im one lucky SOAB.

Good job on being a selfish SOAB and circumventing the limitation and thus preventing someone from getting the one box they wanted. The one box limit was there for a reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


And it seems some people bought quite a few boxes. Like... a lot of boxes.

FFS! Disgusting.

Icegoat wrote:
The grievously rude and distasteful warhammer community post is a true gob of spit in the eye of all those who missed out. The shoddy website meant thousands could not get this box. And now they have the temerity to put a post on their main social website saying pre order now when the box has been out of stock since 10.14 this morning is a real kick in the teeth. They should be ashamed conducting business in this way it's so anti consumer and hurts the community as a whole.

Not seeing what is rude or distasteful about the Warcom post. You do realize that all of these posts, facebook/social media included, are pre-scheduled in advance, right? If those posts are going up after the box is already sold out it absolutely is not intentional.

Oh look the haves and have nots. The got its and the missed outs. GW will be popping the champagne tonight at fooling all the rubes. They will have made millions while thousands of there loyal customers miss out because GW have done it again and under produced their latest exclusive timed box. None of these models are releasing later. Different versions will be ut these models are indomitus exclusive. That skele shield captain is going to be worth hundreds in a few months.

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't think they're doing this intentionally. It simply wouldn't make any sense. Sure, scarcity can increase the demand, but this thing is a sure seller. They could have easily sold many, many times more if they had what to sell. It must be a production capacity issue, no doubt worsened by the plague.

The thing is, GW can only make so much of a singular product before it impacts the rest of their production capacity. They specifically stated that they had made a bunch but....its supposed to be limited, it's not a starter & wont be around for ever.
Scalpers specifically take advantage of psychology and a certain subset of the population that mentally breaks down when they miss out(awww poor baby, didnt get the toy they wanted).
If every scapler has 5-6 accounts and there are 2 scalpers for every single non-scapler it really doesnt matter how many they make.

As much as I would like to heap all of the blame on GW for under-producing, most of the blame is squarely on the scalpers & those that directly support their efforts.

 Crimson wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Looks like they limited it to 1 order per GW account at least for the US. Good thing I created another new account with my payment info ready to go this morning before they went live. Box showed up like 8 minutes after 1:00 pm eastern. Managed to grab 2 of them im one lucky SOAB.

Good job on being a selfish SOAB and circumventing the limitation and thus preventing someone from getting the one box they wanted. The one box limit was there for a reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


And it seems some people bought quite a few boxes. Like... a lot of boxes.

FFS! Disgusting.

I dont think its selfish at all. My friend and I have been playing since 2001. Hes had Necrons since 3rd edition and wanted 2 boxes. I said eh why not ill get 2 and well split it because I can actually use the models. If my friend didnt want 2 boxes id happily sell it at $200 to a forum member who needed it and would actually play it and paint them. The whole system is messed up, and with the way things are your just lucky enough to get what you can if you refresh the page every hour since 9:00 am on the hour like I did. It took alot of time out of my day and im excited to play with the new models. GW needs to stop making limited edition boxes that sell out right away. Also, most likely that box would have gone to an ebay scalper. I dont feel bad at all. Peace out fellow 40k players.

Icegoat wrote:
A bunch of amateur incompetents this is is a multi million dollar company and theyve failed to have enough stock or have a working website how many people have failed to get this due to GWs website not working throughout the day. It's a complete shambles a disgrace.

Whatever you do NEVER become a PC gamer and try to use the Steam store at the start of a Steam Sale.

Also I'd advise avoiding ANY MMO game during its first week to two weeks of launch because if you think GW is bad for crashes on websites due to insanely abnormal and high load levels then you've seen nothing yet.

I'd also note that my experience today was the GW store remained running and glitched a bit here and there; almost every other major 3rd party gamer store outright broke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
GW needs to stop making limited edition boxes that sell out right away. Also, most likely that box would have gone to an ebay scalper. I dont feel bad at all. Peace out fellow 40k players.

Remember these boxes are not unique boxes they are discount boxes. So in GW's view its not a problem that some people didn't get them, because they will be able to buy the models when they go on regular retail sale. The issue of missed chances is simply missing out on a deal rather than the actual product. Of course one might also have to wait longer (or buy secondhand from split sets which the market seems to have a very good number of at present).

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't think they're doing this intentionally. It simply wouldn't make any sense. Sure, scarcity can increase the demand, but this thing is a sure seller. They could have easily sold many, many times more if they had what to sell. It must be a production capacity issue, no doubt worsened by the plague.

The thing is, GW can only make so much of a singular product before it impacts the rest of their production capacity. They specifically stated that they had made a bunch but....its supposed to be limited, it's not a starter & wont be around for ever.
Scalpers specifically take advantage of psychology and a certain subset of the population that mentally breaks down when they miss out(awww poor baby, didnt get the toy they wanted).
If every scapler has 5-6 accounts and there are 2 scalpers for every single non-scapler it really doesnt matter how many they make.

As much as I would like to heap all of the blame on GW for under-producing, most of the blame is squarely on the scalpers & those that directly support their efforts.

Couldn't agree more. Is it right to support a company that assists in creating this environment by enabling it to happen though?

nekooni wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Do we actually KNOW why it sold out in 15 minutes? Is it really GW knowingly producing less boxes than predicted demand? Was it GW simply underestimating demand? Did corona had anything to do with it? (probably yes because they had to shut down exactly in the weeks you'd expect factories to be running at 200% to produce as many boxes as possible for a July release) Are there simply a large amount of boxes reserved for retail? All possible reasons.

GW tested the water with the SoB box and should've known better, honestly.
If you've not reached your production goal you should postpone a launch or move away from the "one round of boxes, that's it" idiocy that is limited edition boxes. Two easy fixes to this mess.

The two boxes I bought are now split by 4 people - 3 marine players and one guy starting a new necron army. Not exactly 'hyped into a frenzy", is it?

You don't just postpone a release as big as this one. There's a lot of money that has gone into design and production and then there's also been the corona-shutdown. As for the limited edition thing, GW is selling these extremely cheap. If this box was around permanently they'd have to mark up the price by 75-100 euro's (why is my euro-sign not working? ) because permanently selling this box for 155 euro would be insanity. But well, let's hope the rumors about a second wave of boxes are true so I can get one as well

 Crusaderobr wrote:


I dont think its selfish at all. My friend and I have been playing since 2001. Hes had Necrons since 3rd edition and wanted 2 boxes. I said eh why not ill get 2 and well split it because I can actually use the models. If my friend didnt want 2 boxes id happily sell it at $200 to a forum member who needed it and would actually play it and paint them. The whole system is messed up, and with the way things are your just lucky enough to get what you can if you refresh the page every hour since 9:00 am on the hour like I did. It took alot of time out of my day and im excited to play with the new models. GW needs to stop making limited edition boxes that sell out right away. Also, most likely that box would have gone to an ebay scalper. I dont feel bad at all. Peace out fellow 40k players.

If you're splitting them your friend, then that indeed is different, as that effectively is getting one box per person.

Though I feel GW should police the limit by shipping address instead of by account, as then it would be harder for scalpers to circumvent the limit. You circumventing it and getting an extra box for your friend is not a problem, a scalper circumventing it and getting hundred boxes most definitely is.

 Crimson wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:


I dont think its selfish at all. My friend and I have been playing since 2001. Hes had Necrons since 3rd edition and wanted 2 boxes. I said eh why not ill get 2 and well split it because I can actually use the models. If my friend didnt want 2 boxes id happily sell it at $200 to a forum member who needed it and would actually play it and paint them. The whole system is messed up, and with the way things are your just lucky enough to get what you can if you refresh the page every hour since 9:00 am on the hour like I did. It took alot of time out of my day and im excited to play with the new models. GW needs to stop making limited edition boxes that sell out right away. Also, most likely that box would have gone to an ebay scalper. I dont feel bad at all. Peace out fellow 40k players.

If you're splitting them your friend, then that indeed is different, as that effectively is getting one box per person.

Though I feel GW should police the limit by shipping address instead of by account, as then it would be harder for scalpers to circumvent the limit. You circumventing it and getting an extra box for your friend is not a problem, a scalper circumventing it and getting hundred boxes most definitely is.

Couldent agree more. I really hate ebay scalpers. If someone told me I was in the same room as one, id punch him right in the face and break his nose.

But dark imperium contained plenty of models never went out of stock and wasnt scalped to high heaven?? Indomitus is a complete sham and scam. They under produced this amazingly good value box set. Hyped it for months. Limited the preorders and told everyone it was a must buy. It's entirely on GW that this happened.

No luck here.

I honestly wouldent worry too much if you missed out. They will realize they need to make more and it will go up for sale again. Just keep your eyes peeled in the coming days/weeks.

Icegoat wrote:
But dark imperium contained plenty of models never went out of stock and wasnt scalped to high heaven?? Indomitus is a complete sham and scam. They under produced this amazingly good value box set. Hyped it for months. Limited the preorders and told everyone it was a must buy. It's entirely on GW that this happened.

If it was your birthday, the sun was shining, and world peace was achieved, would you consider writing a single positive post?

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I honestly wouldent worry too much if you missed out. They will realize they need to make more and it will go up for sale again. Just keep your eyes peeled in the coming days/weeks.

aah yes just like the sob box and the looncurse and the feast of bones box did??? Why are you even defending this. They are not producing more and if they could why didn they before the pre order? If they wanted to produce more they easily could have the fact they didnt is very telling. Heck if they are making more why would it go out of stock print on demand for ever and ever a million boxes a million million. No GW have once again created false hype and false exclusivity to maximise profits and screw their loyal customers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I note the pre order community post has been taken down I'm sure a mea culpa is on it's way. Oh whoops we didnt realise anyone would want this box how shocking for us oh well we will make more next time we make a box. Sickening.

Icegoat wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I honestly wouldent worry too much if you missed out. They will realize they need to make more and it will go up for sale again. Just keep your eyes peeled in the coming days/weeks.

aah yes just like the sob box and the looncurse and the feast of bones box did??? Why are you even defending this. They are not producing more and if they could why didn they before the pre order? If they wanted to produce more they easily could have the fact they didnt is very telling. Heck if they are making more why would it go out of stock print on demand for ever and ever a million boxes a million million. No GW have once again created false hype and false exclusivity to maximise profits and screw their loyal customers

Looncurse, Feast of Bones and Sisters of Battle are indeed out of production.
ALL Of the models that were present in those sets are, however, now on individual model sale. You can go right now and buy them from the GW website.

The only exception is some of the SOB models are being sold now as full kits not as single pushfits so there is some sculpt variation, though the complete sets have way more parts and options to them so many would consider them an improvement.

So sure GW only makes short term sales - short term. However the models are all on individual sale. The Primaris and Necron content you'll be able to one day go into your GW store or online or to a 3rd party and buy them fresh off the shelf in a box. Some, like the 4 legged necron walker, will likely even come with optional parts to make other variations and some might be put into a getting started set for some discount (eg warriors)

@ Over, I just thought those login ques for classic wow was just part of the authenic 2006 experience

For everyone else that feels the geedubs gone done you wrong why not take your fury and funds and experiment outside the bubble with non-gw games, you never know you might like it

Icegoat wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I honestly wouldent worry too much if you missed out. They will realize they need to make more and it will go up for sale again. Just keep your eyes peeled in the coming days/weeks.

aah yes just like the sob box .

Well the Sisters box actually did get a refresh of stock.
And as it turns out, back before the pandemic, I saw copies of it still sitting on store shelves in January.

I won't be terribly surprised by the same thing here. Its a good deal for those two armies, but doesn't really offer anything to anyone else.

A planned restock to show they're 'listening' and maybe some 'found' stock and redistribution (between stores with too much and too little) later.

Pandabeer wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'd say that the community hyping themselves into yet another frenzy of "THESE THINGS WON'T BE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE EVER!" and "OMFG THESE THINGS ARE BROKEN!" did the job better than GW ever could have.

And as usual, you blame the players in your desperate attempts to defend poor GW.

Do we actually KNOW why it sold out in 15 minutes? Is it really GW knowingly producing less boxes than predicted demand? Was it GW simply underestimating demand? Did corona had anything to do with it? (probably yes because they had to shut down exactly in the weeks you'd expect factories to be running at 200% to produce as many boxes as possible for a July release) Are there simply a large amount of boxes reserved for retail? All possible reasons.

GW tested the water with the SoB box and should've known better, honestly.
If you've not reached your production goal you should postpone a launch or move away from the "one round of boxes, that's it" idiocy that is limited edition boxes. Two easy fixes to this mess.

The two boxes I bought are now split by 4 people - 3 marine players and one guy starting a new necron army. Not exactly 'hyped into a frenzy", is it?

You don't just postpone a release as big as this one. There's a lot of money that has gone into design and production and then there's also been the corona-shutdown. As for the limited edition thing, GW is selling these extremely cheap. If this box was around permanently they'd have to mark up the price by 75-100 euro's (why is my euro-sign not working? ) because permanently selling this box for 155 euro would be insanity. But well, let's hope the rumors about a second wave of boxes are true so I can get one as well

Well, then make it a made to order item if you don't want it to sit around on your store ruining your prices. Make it a "we got X stock for sale right now, and once it runs out we will make it to order and allow you to order it for the entire preview period. If that's over, we'll make a second production run of exactly that many boxes and ship them to you within 1-2 months. In the meantime we'll send you the BRB right now as we have tons of those available, no need to wait.". I'm just an IT guy - I'm sure qualified people could come up with even better ideas to handle this other that this clusterfeth.

So my LGS apparently was taking names before pre-orders officially opened. Luckily I was first in line when they opened and got box 26 out of 30. That's right they were only guaranteed 30, and 25 had already been "promised" via the secret pre-order list. They said they had tried to order 100 initially, was told they could get maybe 50, and then were told Thursday they would only get 30.Even as I was standing there, one of the owners was trying to order more copies directly through the website. They think they got 4 more copies before US webstore sold out which they have promised to people on a wait list they started even though they will make no money on the boxes.

It seems at each level, you needed luck or a special relationship to help secure a box.

Though GW has sold everything, I am sure they didn't want the kind of black cloud this is turning into to darken their launch of a new edition of their flagship product.

As others have mentioned, I am sure this situation makes a lot of their planned advertising like today's community post obsolete.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So my LGS apparently was taking names before pre-orders officially opened. Luckily I was first in line when they opened and got box 26 out of 30. That's right they were only guaranteed 30, and 25 had already been "promised" via the secret pre-order list. They said they had tried to order 100 initially, was told they could get maybe 50, and then were told Thursday they would only get 30.Even as I was standing there, one of the owners was trying to order more copies directly through the website. They think they got 4 more copies before US webstore sold out which they have promised to people on a wait list they started even though they will make no money on the boxes.

It seems at each level, you needed luck or a special relationship to help secure a box.

Though GW has sold everything, I am sure they didn't want the kind of black cloud this is turning into to darken their launch of a new edition of their flagship product.

As others have mentioned, I am sure this situation makes a lot of their planned advertising like today's community post obsolete.

https://spikeybits.com/2020/07/gw-burns-everyone-with-indomitus-box-announcement.html

They have some fixing to do

Well if spikeybits says it, it probably isn't true.

Voss wrote:
Well if spikeybits says it, it probably isn't true.

its true enough for the clickbait which is all that matters when youre a purveyor of kwality 'news' like Mr B

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Voss wrote:
Well if spikeybits says it, it probably isn't true.

its true enough for the clickbait which is all that matters when youre a purveyor of kwality 'news' like Mr B

Usually a waste but LoD's experience here and two of my local hobby shops unfortunately confirm it is true

 Overread wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
A bunch of amateur incompetents this is is a multi million dollar company and theyve failed to have enough stock or have a working website how many people have failed to get this due to GWs website not working throughout the day. It's a complete shambles a disgrace.

Whatever you do NEVER become a PC gamer and try to use the Steam store at the start of a Steam Sale.

Also I'd advise avoiding ANY MMO game during its first week to two weeks of launch because if you think GW is bad for crashes on websites due to insanely abnormal and high load levels then you've seen nothing yet.

I'd also note that my experience today was the GW store remained running and glitched a bit here and there; almost every other major 3rd party gamer store outright broke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
GW needs to stop making limited edition boxes that sell out right away. Also, most likely that box would have gone to an ebay scalper. I dont feel bad at all. Peace out fellow 40k players.

Remember these boxes are not unique boxes they are discount boxes. So in GW's view its not a problem that some people didn't get them, because they will be able to buy the models when they go on regular retail sale. The issue of missed chances is simply missing out on a deal rather than the actual product. Of course one might also have to wait longer (or buy secondhand from split sets which the market seems to have a very good number of at present).

Those comparaison are stupid. No, if you try to pre-order a game in steam you will be able to and you will get it at release, minus the potential delay due to technical difficulties. You will not be buyed out of a product an hour or even a week during pre-orders due to shortage.

Also there are no proof that those box are not unique. I'm pretty sure some characters will be unique to that box, especially the primaris chaplain because there's already a substitute.

I can honestly say that today has left me angry, bitter and extremely unhappy. Ever since the new CEO took over GW have, for the most part, been moving in the right direction. This "release", however, has surely flung away a huge amount of the goodwill they have built up.

I am at a complete loss as to how you can launch a new edition of your flagship game in such a hamfisted and poorly planned way. I know they have their flaws but surely they cannot conceivably have intended this disastrous shambles?

40K is their flagship game, their life blood. Its fans are often deeply dedicated and for many it is central to their lives. When you launch a new edition they NEED it in their hands. To flirt with them over "the best box ever" and in effect make it the starter set (I know it technically isn't but to all intents and purposes it is because it is the opening release and contains the rules), promise you've made enough so there will plenty for everyone and then... this disgraceful fiasco. You're not dealing with people not getting the new flavour of baked beans on the first day, these are people for whom this is central to their existence. They want to be in on the ground floor. They want to be there at the opening moments.

It is madness to release an edition of your main game that in the opening weeks will be bleeding out in limited numbers. It will leave a huge amount of frustration and anger. It has clearly been leapt on from a great height by the vile and indefensible scalpers. Why in God's name allow people to buy 3 of a limited edition set? Rumours suggest the distribution is a complete mess with shops uncertain how many they will get etc, so there is likely to be another wave of anger when customers turn up to pick it up to find out that the order wasn't what was expected.

At the release of 8th there were lots. I know this isn't the 'starter set' but it is the first release. It needs to be in every hand on release day. People can rush off and play it, share in the mutual excitement of the new box, etc. This will leave a complete divide of haves and have nots.

Then you've got the FLGSs who have abandoned all decency and scalped their own customers by not discounting and offering their loyal customers a very poor choice of "no discount, take it or leave it" knowing the loyal customer is likely to swallow it, even though they would have gone direct to GW for security of supply if they'd known.

All round it is a complete disgrace and a disaster for GW. Their glorious new release is now piecemeal, riven with bitterness, frustration and recriminations all over. It won't be a universal launch it is effectively being staggered and the impact and momentum will be lost. Then an actual 'starter set' will come along and it will be not as good but probably cost as much leading to more anger and resentment.

They need to make an immediate statement to the effect that they will continue to produce Indomitus until all sales are satisfied, i.e. until the level of orders drops to a certain state. They promised they'd made enough for everyone and they need to deliver on this to even begin to rescue this nightmare cock up. I'm so infuriated that I might not even bother to buy it and I refuse to be fobbed off with some second rate 'starter' with less models etc in it. It's Indomitus or nothing for me. Over to you GW.

You know they're going to ride in on their white steed with more boxes found under a big tarp to the fanfare of the indoctrinated.

Well, they took down their post about it being open for pre-order that didn't go up until after they were already sold out, so that's something.

I apologies to the OP for my earlier comments in which I expressed my opinion that GW would certainly have sufficient stock to meet demand and that this would not be a sell-out, at least not immediately. I assumed that given the new factory they built and the years of planning they put into releases and this being their flagship, core product that they would not drop the ball. Well they didn't just drop it they punctured it, squeezed the air out and threw it into the nearest bin. OP you called it.

 Eldarain wrote:
You know they're going to ride in on their white steed with more boxes found under a big tarp to the fanfare of the indoctrinated.

The funny part is that it's more often than not never "more boxes found". It's that orders get cancelled out on Monday if they weren't paid for by Sunday evening on the GW storefronts.

Is OP a psyker? His divinations came to pass!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
You know they're going to ride in on their white steed with more boxes found under a big tarp to the fanfare of the indoctrinated.

The funny part is that it's more often than not never "more boxes found". It's that orders get cancelled out on Monday if they weren't paid for by Sunday evening on the GW storefronts.

Aye there's also more than a few people who order on multiple stores to ensure they get a copy and then spend an afternoon cancelling them either directly on the stores or just through their online card/paypal etc...

Plus all those who get whipped up into a panic and order several and then come Monday or a few days later go "Eh actually what am I thinking I can't afford/don't need 10 copies". etc... 3rd party stores who "put aside" copies also get people who flake out, which is why many stores will say. "Yes I'll put it aside, and if you're not in by X time then its going back on the shelf for sale unless I hear from you".

Heck the GW store I went to get my Feast of Bones from the manager there said that there was at least one or two people who'd begged him to put the store copies aside and yet hadn't turned up for them - it was a wet day so heck perhaps the weather put them off.


People flake out all the time for things for all kinds of reasons, its normal and to be expected. When you're selling thousands of copies of something then those flakes can add up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Is OP a psyker? His divinations came to pass!

Nopes - also if it hadn't sold out we'd be hearing how GW had grossly overestimated things and clearly was losing customers for the failure to sell out. Perhaps suggesting that Necons were due to be squatted or that Primaris were vastly unpopular etc.... Because if the army can't sell out in 5 mins then its not worth supporting any more.

stratigo wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
This is an insanely horrific way to treat customers I knew months ago this would sell out we all did yet GW have done nothing to further production of indomitus and are very happy to once again fail 99% of the community for the 1% that does get this box. An absolute disgrace. Their lies about making loads of boxes can clearly be seen now. This will easily net them millions in profit but I hope the long term Ill will this generates finally has an impact and they stop these disgraceful anti consumer practices

Tfw you're having a very normal one over a company that makes toys not having functionally infinite manufacturing capacity.

...You do realize that we are in the middle of a global pandemic that has sickened 12 million people and killed nearly 550,000 more?

The initial release was set for three waves, then COVID-19 hit and it all got consolidated into one. I've heard stories of many stores COLLECTING MONEY for a boxset they can't even order yet and then pitching a fit about not being able to provide to the customers they've already collected money from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yea nothing like a pandemic going on coupled with really popular models in a wildly inexpensive box. Maybe GW should have charged $300. Would that make people feel better?

You're really going to try and blame shortages of this box on COVID and popularity?

Yes. Since it was stated as such from GW themselves, that this was planned with three print runs and had to be the only two they could get, combined into one to get all of the product out...

Indomitus hasn't been sitting in a warehouse since January.

Even if this actually were the case.... GW can literally just make more.

COVID is a fun excuse for "BUY NOW OR MISS OUT! NOW! DON'T THINK! BUY!" of standard business marketing though. Cause it's not like they totally never ever did this before.

I never said they can't make more. They likely will, given the popularity. What is it with people on this forum treating everything as an absolute?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Isengard wrote:
I can honestly say that today has left me angry, bitter and extremely unhappy. Ever since the new CEO took over GW have, for the most part, been moving in the right direction. This "release", however, has surely flung away a huge amount of the goodwill they have built up.

I am at a complete loss as to how you can launch a new edition of your flagship game in such a hamfisted and poorly planned way. I know they have their flaws but surely they cannot conceivably have intended this disastrous shambles?

40K is their flagship game, their life blood. Its fans are often deeply dedicated and for many it is central to their lives. When you launch a new edition they NEED it in their hands. To flirt with them over "the best box ever" and in effect make it the starter set (I know it technically isn't but to all intents and purposes it is because it is the opening release and contains the rules), promise you've made enough so there will plenty for everyone and then... this disgraceful fiasco. You're not dealing with people not getting the new flavour of baked beans on the first day, these are people for whom this is central to their existence. They want to be in on the ground floor. They want to be there at the opening moments.

It is madness to release an edition of your main game that in the opening weeks will be bleeding out in limited numbers. It will leave a huge amount of frustration and anger. It has clearly been leapt on from a great height by the vile and indefensible scalpers. Why in God's name allow people to buy 3 of a limited edition set? Rumours suggest the distribution is a complete mess with shops uncertain how many they will get etc, so there is likely to be another wave of anger when customers turn up to pick it up to find out that the order wasn't what was expected.

At the release of 8th there were lots. I know this isn't the 'starter set' but it is the first release. It needs to be in every hand on release day. People can rush off and play it, share in the mutual excitement of the new box, etc. This will leave a complete divide of haves and have nots.

Then you've got the FLGSs who have abandoned all decency and scalped their own customers by not discounting and offering their loyal customers a very poor choice of "no discount, take it or leave it" knowing the loyal customer is likely to swallow it, even though they would have gone direct to GW for security of supply if they'd known.

All round it is a complete disgrace and a disaster for GW. Their glorious new release is now piecemeal, riven with bitterness, frustration and recriminations all over. It won't be a universal launch it is effectively being staggered and the impact and momentum will be lost. Then an actual 'starter set' will come along and it will be not as good but probably cost as much leading to more anger and resentment.

They need to make an immediate statement to the effect that they will continue to produce Indomitus until all sales are satisfied, i.e. until the level of orders drops to a certain state. They promised they'd made enough for everyone and they need to deliver on this to even begin to rescue this nightmare cock up. I'm so infuriated that I might not even bother to buy it and I refuse to be fobbed off with some second rate 'starter' with less models etc in it. It's Indomitus or nothing for me. Over to you GW.

It's almost as if we're living in the middle of some kind of unprecedented global outbreak that shut down the whole planet for three months or something.

But, go ahead. Bash away. After all, you all were present in each staff meeting, each board meeting, each production meeting going back to December. You know all of the issues they faced and you know that the truth is dirty GW wanted to make your life suck by not making enough plastic toys for you to get some right this very minute, even though these kits will be out on their own in a few months time.

You people are the most full of your selves, selfish little gaks. feth you, and feth this website. I'm out.

I mostly read BL and buy very little modelling stuff so speaking about the novels this type of thing happens with nearly every release. Has done for a few years now. Special editions sell out in seconds and regular books often disappear in a few days or weeks. It’s a source of massive frustration particularly when your collecting a series of special edition books and then miss out on one because you can’t hit refresh fast enough or heaven forbid your working. Most BL collectors have just got used to it by now.

It's almost as if we're living in the middle of some kind of unprecedented global outbreak that shut down the whole planet for three months or something.

But, go ahead. Bash away. After all, you all were present in each staff meeting, each board meeting, each production meeting going back to December. You know all of the issues they faced and you know that the truth is dirty GW wanted to make your life suck by not making enough plastic toys for you to get some right this very minute, even though these kits will be out on their own in a few months time.

You people are the most full of your selves, selfish little gaks. feth you, and feth this website. I'm out.

After a bit of a nightmare trying to order through the website, I seem to have secured one when they briefly had more stock available around 1035 am local time.

I got all the way to the checkout card verification the first time around when it told me it switched to saying it was out of stock. Was really bummed out for a bit.

The scalper situation is rage inducing however.

I was about to get back into this hobby with necrons, and was eagerly awaiting this set. I saw it sell out at 4m in the UK, so used this thread to find the US time. I was trying to get the website to work prior to and during the release time. The page failed every time I tried, after 30 minutes of trying it finally opened for me to see it being sold out. I also see sets selling for $350+ on ebay now, this whole thing is more 2020 disheartenment. I think it has really turned me away from getting back into this hobby.

UndeadD wrote:
I was about to get back into this hobby with necrons, and was eagerly awaiting this set. I saw it sell out at 4m in the UK, so used this thread to find the US time. I was trying to get the website to work prior to and during the release time. The page failed every time I tried, after 30 minutes of trying it finally opened for me to see it being sold out. I also see sets selling for $350+ on ebay now, this whole thing is more 2020 disheartenment. I think it has really turned me away from getting back into this hobby.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW sends out a second wave soon, given its popularity. And whatever ends up being the regular starter box is still likely to be a good snag. Dark Imperium was a great way to get into the hobby.

Whatever you do, don't feed the scalpers. Every time someone feeds a scalper, Slaanesh does unspeakable things to a puppy.

It's a classic GW omnishambles, but the upside is there is a 100% chance they will be making way more of these, because the PR hit would be unbelievable if they didn't. So at worst, you'll have to wait a couple weeks.

Eh GW hasn't got infinite time to "make more". They'd have to order more books and boxes from China which would take weeks/months to arrive by bulk shipment on boat. Furthermore you can bet that they've already got preparations for the new Codex for both forces. I'd wager we'll see the necron warriors appearing in a new box right at about the same time since they are the core of the army. So that means at least warriors and likely a few others from this set already have retail releases in August or September.

If people purchase a large number of regularly priced boxes of the new Necron sprue when it eventually comes out it will.reinforce GWs strategic decision and they will continue to do this type of release.

 Tokhuah wrote:
If people purchase a large number of regularly priced boxes of the new Necron sprue when it eventually comes out it will.reinforce GWs strategic decision and they will continue to do this type of release.

You mean like they've been doing for at least 3 or more years.

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't think they're doing this intentionally. It simply wouldn't make any sense. Sure, scarcity can increase the demand, but this thing is a sure seller. They could have easily sold many, many times more if they had what to sell. It must be a production capacity issue, no doubt worsened by the plague.

1) It's a huge discount.
2) They made "the most of any box"
3) forums and FB have been peddling fear for a week now.
4) Reduced production window
5) They're not going to oversaturate the market with these boxes, because then there's literally no money in releasing proper kits later.

If GW were to do it again the only thing different they could do is charge $300 and force 1 per person wherever possible.

People will still have access to these models. This isnt the only chance to ever own this stuff and people need to get a grip.

Wow what a lot of people whose lives have been utterly ruined bu not getting some plastic figures exactly when they wanted them. I was not surprised when I didn't get an order and then was nicely surprised to learn I had actually secures one despite the out of stock messages when I checked out.

But the range of these emotions was entirely inline with them being a plastic toy and I was still warm, dry, had running water and was not likely to be shot at any point in the near future.

The scale of emotion leads me to believe my box could make someone very happy if they want to put a price on that happiness.

 Overread wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:
If people purchase a large number of regularly priced boxes of the new Necron sprue when it eventually comes out it will.reinforce GWs strategic decision and they will continue to do this type of release.

You mean like they've been doing for at least 3 or more years.

They've had this as normal practice for that long? When I was a kid back in 4th edition things seemed simpler. If this is a common GW practice I might need to look for a different hobby.

UndeadD wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:
If people purchase a large number of regularly priced boxes of the new Necron sprue when it eventually comes out it will.reinforce GWs strategic decision and they will continue to do this type of release.

You mean like they've been doing for at least 3 or more years.

They've had this as normal practice for that long? When I was a kid back in 4th edition things seemed simpler. If this is a common GW practice I might need to look for a different hobby.

I wouldn't be that dramatic.

GW has for a good few years now been doing limited edition discount boxes to launch new models. They are limited in quantity and are used to help promote typically two armies getting a few new models. Sometimes its just one model, sometimes its more. They are short term discount deals. However the models that are new which go into them do go on general retail sale. So you don't miss out. Age of Sigmar did have some odd issues where a few boxes took a year (which is the current longest timeline and quite abnormal) to get to retail release. However in general the turn-around time is much shorter. I would expect several of the kits in Indomitus (if not all) to appear very quickly for individual sale. Things like warriors for the Necrons are bread-and-butter core units that they need.

Think of it like a short term sale period; sales don't last forever and they are a right pain if you miss them. However they are neat way to drum up interest. Plus you don't miss out because you can buy the models later. The nly thing you miss is the discount price.


Furthermore I should note that duel boxes mean that people end up with spare halves; so you can hit up ebay and facebook and forums to find people willing and eager to swap/sell their half that they don't want. Right now on FB there are quite a few sets swapping hands - you might pay £50 (rare at best) to £70 (high end but still considered fair price) for one "half" of the models. Prices can go higher but that's "normally" scalpers or the inexperienced overpricing.

Happygeorge wrote:
Wow what a lot of people whose lives have been utterly ruined bu not getting some plastic figures exactly when they wanted them. I was not surprised when I didn't get an order and then was nicely surprised to learn I had actually secures one despite the out of stock messages when I checked out.

But the range of these emotions was entirely inline with them being a plastic toy and I was still warm, dry, had running water and was not likely to be shot at any point in the near future.

The scale of emotion leads me to believe my box could make someone very happy if they want to put a price on that happiness.

But isn't this just evidence of the triumph of GW's marketing apparatus? That they can make grown men and women so desperate for their tiny plastic soldiers that GW not being able to immediately take their money and exchange it for said plastic toys causes such profound mental anguish?

Those that live by the sword die by the sword. GW can't on the one hand spend so much time and effort creating this brand loyalty and desperation and on the other hand wash their hands of it and say "these people are crazy" when they flub something up.

Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

I don't know about financial but their store might get black marks from Ebay for a lot of returns and they might also get negative reviews from those customers. That said a pro scalper will likely have several store names and rotate stock around. Casually using easy sale items to build up a good base reputation and having back-ups to dump incase of problems.

I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

it's only woefully insufficient stock if they had planned on making X(#) and didnt. I'm quite sure that GW made the amount they did based on previous/projected sales. If they messed up and made too many, no one would be irate(except for accountants) & if they made too few...ooooh gak watch out.

I dont understand why people aren't in uproar over the ridiculous scalping going on. The easiest way to hurt them is to exercise some restraint and NOT SUPPORT THEIR PRICE GOUGING! As long as morons(little ittybitty babies cant get the toys they want)are willingly throwing money at 3rd parties to split up the boxes, they will continue to thrive.

Let's be honest here, we(the community) have a problem & that problem is entitlement. GW straight up said it was limited & even tho they made a shittonne, it was limited nonetheless.

Has GW gak the bed with regards to this release? Short answer, Yes. is it complete diarrhea everywhere in the sheets, bedspread etc.... no.
The world is not gonna end if you dont get your plastic toys

 Overread wrote:

Icegoat wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I honestly wouldent worry too much if you missed out. They will realize they need to make more and it will go up for sale again. Just keep your eyes peeled in the coming days/weeks.

aah yes just like the sob box and the looncurse and the feast of bones box did??? Why are you even defending this. They are not producing more and if they could why didn they before the pre order? If they wanted to produce more they easily could have the fact they didnt is very telling. Heck if they are making more why would it go out of stock print on demand for ever and ever a million boxes a million million. No GW have once again created false hype and false exclusivity to maximise profits and screw their loyal customers

Looncurse, Feast of Bones and Sisters of Battle are indeed out of production.
ALL Of the models that were present in those sets are, however, now on individual model sale. You can go right now and buy them from the GW website.

The only exception is some of the SOB models are being sold now as full kits not as single pushfits so there is some sculpt variation, though the complete sets have way more parts and options to them so many would consider them an improvement.

So sure GW only makes short term sales - short term. However the models are all on individual sale. The Primaris and Necron content you'll be able to one day go into your GW store or online or to a 3rd party and buy them fresh off the shelf in a box. Some, like the 4 legged necron walker, will likely even come with optional parts to make other variations and some might be put into a getting started set for some discount (eg warriors)

GW puts some significant lag time between new models in a bundle and new models on their own.

Now, they almost certainly won't for most of indomitus, because space marines, and necrons are being set for a new release. But my AoS army, KO, still doesn;t have the new, frankly required, character (I don't mind, I stopped playing AoS). Many Ghoul players waited months and months and months to get their essentially required character. And this is, of course, a marketing ploy.

While bikes and new cron warriors will get a new release quick, I'd keep an eye on how long it takes for the judicar, or the skorpekh lord to come out on its own.

I wasn't really all that bothered about getting one but I went on the website and saw the price and decide to get it, no crashing, no out of stock. I may even get another when they go on sale in store. All those people who thinks it's the end of the world that they didn't get to feed their plastic crack habit for two weeks need to have their attitudes adjusted.

The basic problem is that GW have seemingly sold something massively below what the market is willing to bear. Thats great for those who get it, and obviously induces frustration in those who miss out.

GW will have to ask themselves whether selling something like £450 of stuff for £125 (or less in all the FLGS across the globe) makes sense - but at the end of the day, if they have produced 150k kits (no idea if this was the total, but it was a figure thrown around on forums), and they have all sold, making circa £15m in a Saturday morning isn't exactly bad business.

I'm sure they will be asking questions of whether another 50-100k of kits will sell, and so another print run is justified. But the question of supplying ebay sales for years, and so undermining all the individual kit sales, will remain.

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Right? I had the option of ordering one, when I checked the website out of curiosity. But $200, for 23 fewer minis than Pelennor, and junk rules? No way.

I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

If people are having a good time and enjoying themselves, how are they burning their money? That sounds like what anyone wants out of a good hobby.

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Dripping with arrogance and hyperbole. Good job.

 Sasori wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

If people are having a good time and enjoying themselves, how are they burning their money? That sounds like what anyone wants out of a good hobby.

A good point.

Lots of folk - both rich and poor - spend their money on some very ridiculous things, because they can and it makes them happy.

I'm not about to get into a philosophic debate regarding the whole "money can't buy happiness" thing.
Just pointing out that most of us know what we're getting into with 40K as far as spending cash, and we do it because it brings us something close to or precisely upon the feeling of fulfillment.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Dripping with arrogance and hyperbole. Good job.

I forget, is it arrogance when its just something someone disagrees with?

 auticus wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Dripping with arrogance and hyperbole. Good job.

I forget, is it arrogance when its just something someone disagrees with?

No, but the way you presented this is incredibly arrogant.

Why are you even here? Did you get tired of making everyone miserable in the AoS forums, so you figured you'd do the same thing here?

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

 Crimson wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

Value for money on that box is extremely good. Its about $3 per model (slightly less, in fact) and $20 for a hardback game book (with lots of the usual full color art and etc). Even if you talk about normal people's pricing and not GW pricing, that is quite good.
I wouldn't recommend it for people who don't have an interest in marines or necrons, but its quite the reasonable thing to want and buy for people that do have an interest.
And a few hiccups aside, they are indeed largely great models.


And if you want to consider GW pricing- there are 9 characters in this box, several with direct equivalents (lieutenant, chaplain, Overlord, etc). If/when they come out individually, those models alone will top $300


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 auticus wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Dripping with arrogance and hyperbole. Good job.

I forget, is it arrogance when its just something someone disagrees with?

Well, for one thing, it is objectively wrong. Almost no edition of 40k, fantasy or AoS ever sold out before.

Though in fairness, this one didn't either. You can still get the rulebooks, just not the box set (whether that's because they understocked to sell out like they've done with 'new hero and old stuff' boxes, or because of the Covid shutdown is up in the air to anyone outside the company)

Ok my mistake, I'm reading on various facebooks right now that it sold out right away and that there are people already hawking it on ebay for $400 and $500, so thats where I got the "sold out in 5 minutes" thing from, since I have read from several posters that they tried for five or so minutes and couldn't get it because it sold out that fast.

8th edition as I recall also had a similar thing happen. It went fast and you couldn't get the books for a solid month or so until the restocking started happening.

AOS is... well. I won't get into what AOS is (IMO).

 auticus wrote:
I see it as the most amazing feat of marketing in gaming pretty much ever.

On one hand its arguably to many people the worst ruleset in existence with the worst balance skews ever known.

On the other hand, it sells out in 5 minutes every time they do a new edition and people can't stop buying it regardless of how bad the rules are.

Its certainly worth a case study and entire chapter in university level marketing and game development courses.

Dakka dakka is a forum with the collective id of a grumpy old man. Just how it is.

Also, this is hardly unique to GW. Video games do the exact same harmful psychological manipulation, and often much worse, and people, even when they hate it, still buy in. Because that's what psychological manipulation is supposed to do.

Kind of. The thing with video games though is typically unless its just blatant pay to win, if I buy a video game thats pvp, I don't have to invest a ton of money into buying the faction first, and the company doesn't then invalidate my faction by making it crap at their annual FAQ/"rebalancing" session that forces me to buy a new faction to keep playing.

I can just jump over to a different faction typically.

As bad as GW is about exploiting the FOMO fears of their more rabid fans, they don't have a candle on a company like EA and what they do in, say, the FIFA franchise.

Racerguy180 wrote:
it's only woefully insufficient stock if they had planned on making X(#) and didnt. I'm quite sure that GW made the amount they did based on previous/projected sales. If they messed up and made too many, no one would be irate(except for accountants) & if they made too few...ooooh gak watch out.

I dont understand why people aren't in uproar over the ridiculous scalping going on. The easiest way to hurt them is to exercise some restraint and NOT SUPPORT THEIR PRICE GOUGING! As long as morons(little ittybitty babies cant get the toys they want)are willingly throwing money at 3rd parties to split up the boxes, they will continue to thrive.

Let's be honest here, we(the community) have a problem & that problem is entitlement. GW straight up said it was limited & even tho they made a shittonne, it was limited nonetheless.

Has GW gak the bed with regards to this release? Short answer, Yes. is it complete diarrhea everywhere in the sheets, bedspread etc.... no.
The world is not gonna end if you dont get your plastic toys

They have had several super short sell outs, They would have know this product would. They know what they are doing. There marketing for the most part has been really good, no other way to put it. The debate is how deliberate is it. Make a Limited product, the last thing you want is for it all to go on sale in 2 weeks as you way overshot demand, But instead throw a second wave up to meet that demand in 2 weeks. no worry if you overshoot then, everyone just says you are making sure everyone that wants one gets one.


Also, having a look on the aus website since i like being depressed. They have the english box sold out online, and the german box on temp sold out Just of amusing to me today.

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

under 18 year olds can't go to pubs. stores won't risk investing in to a game, which maybe 5-6 people will play, who will not buy out the whole stick leaving them with money frozen in merch that never sells. And not everyone is good or interested in the social stuff, but are interested in doing something else then looking at a wall at home.


Quick related questions about the cost of the CA book, did in dollars or pound it also almost double in price comparing to 2019 one?

 Crimson wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

I wouldn't call them "amazing." The sculpts have some serious flaws. The captain posing for a photo shoot on the middle of the battlefield. The veterans who donned their tabards and armor in the wrong sequence. The grip on the super-meltas. The pig-nosed necrons. The goofy drapes on the characters. The unnecessarily-huge support structure for the tripods' melee weapons. I don't care for GW's move away from gauss rods, either- thankful 3rd parties still make them.

Continuing to buy minis, however pretty, does not encourage GW to write better rules, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

You misunderstand me. If socializing is the priority, not gaming, why bother with any game? Is it impossible for some folks to converse without chucking dice?

What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

Karol wrote:
Quick related questions about the cost of the CA book, did in dollars or pound it also almost double in price comparing to 2019 one?

Going by the RRP listings on one of my FLGS' website, CA19 was £20, while CA20 is £25. So a 25% increase, but not doubled.

CA18 has been offline for a while, so I can't compare back to that right now.

 auticus wrote:
Kind of. The thing with video games though is typically unless its just blatant pay to win, if I buy a video game thats pvp, I don't have to invest a ton of money into buying the faction first, and the company doesn't then invalidate my faction by making it crap at their annual FAQ/"rebalancing" session that forces me to buy a new faction to keep playing.

I can just jump over to a different faction typically.

At least GW's boxes tell you what's in them on the cover. Most video games these days don't give you that luxury...

Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

it's the sum total of its parts.

Blastaar wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

I wouldn't call them "amazing." The sculpts have some serious flaws. The captain posing for a photo shoot on the middle of the battlefield. The veterans who donned their tabards and armor in the wrong sequence. The grip on the super-meltas. The pig-nosed necrons. The goofy drapes on the characters. The unnecessarily-huge support structure for the tripods' melee weapons. I don't care for GW's move away from gauss rods, either- thankful 3rd parties still make them.

Continuing to buy minis, however pretty, does not encourage GW to write better rules, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

You misunderstand me. If socializing is the priority, not gaming, why bother with any game? Is it impossible for some folks to converse without chucking dice?

What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

One thing that always keeps me and my friends coming back is the 40k universe. The setting. The factions. The detailed images and stories in all the books. 40k is not just about chucking dice, it rewards people who sit back and read a codex or a book on it and have an imagination. Just talking about 40k can be fun sometimes. Its just something to do other than have a few beers, which can get old. If your that bored go ride a fast sportbike on your way to the 40k hangout, you can stuff your models in a backpack. It will be alot more fun than driving a slow car there and on the way back. You will look forward to playing that day more I would think, especially if you like to pop some wheelies down the highway.

Well im surprised the fudged it up so bad..

Ebay looks like a bloodsport.

I'm pretty sure I have a copy through my FLGS. I was going to sit the whole thing out, but it looked like a decent way to get the rulebook and a bunch of Crons if I traded away the Primaris half for some one else's Cron half.

Still not sure if I'm going to do an army, but $130 (box minus eventual rulebook price) for a fat Necron starter seemed like a good time.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ebay looks like a bloodsport.

I'm pretty sure I have a copy through my FLGS. I was going to sit the whole thing out, but it looked like a decent way to get the rulebook and a bunch of Crons if I traded away the Primaris half for some one else's Cron half.

Still not sure if I'm going to do an army, but $130 (box minus eventual rulebook price) for a fat Necron starter seemed like a good time.

Its a great deal.

Lol i havent looked on ebay yet. I. Going to wait till i get my one physicaly before putting up anything on sale.

 Argive wrote:


Lol i havent looked on ebay yet.

150.00+ increase from most eBay sellers.

Funny to see that on the same day I just paid only 200.00 for mine.

I'm sorry, so many missed out. I was able to drive to my local store and order 3 of them with no issues. DGI, and other retailers had them available in the US well into midday.

I strongly would suggest trying your local stores. So far, many of the stores in a four-hour drive seem to have plenty and have had their allocation increased, based on what my FLGS told me.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
2) They made "the most of any box"

Yeah... how do we know that? I mean, 9th is apparently the most polished edition EVER (y'know, since the last one!), and we were finding the mistakes with the first previews. Are you really going to believe PR spin?

 Daedalus81 wrote:
3) forums and FB have been peddling fear for a week now.

So like Kan you're going to blame the players for all of this? Classy.

Seabass wrote:
I'm sorry, so many missed out. I was able to drive to my local store and order 3 of them with no issues. DGI, and other retailers had them available in the US well into midday.

I strongly would suggest trying your local stores. So far, many of the stores in a four-hour drive seem to have plenty and have had their allocation increased, based on what my FLGS told me.

It's the same around here. GW sold out quickly but a lot of FLGS still have stock right now. I think anyone who really wants a box will be able to get one, but they need to act soon. I got my one box that I am splitting with a friend.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

I had this problem a few months ago during the sisters release. I went on to get the limited novel but it came out same day as the next seige book. So not wanting to miss the seige book I bought it first and the sisters book was gone when I went back. I went to the filthy scalpers to buy one and found one at £80 but it now. Bought it didn’t hear anything for weeks and then got an email saying the seller had a supply problem. In other words he never even had the item! I couldn’t believe it, left him a one star review and he went bonkers pleading with me to change it and then eventually calling me a liar! He even posted a reply to my review saying he had been let down by his supplier and that had caused the issue. I had never used eBay for books before and never will again. If I miss out I miss out. I’m pretty sure many of the eBay scalpers are GW employees. I’ve seen pictures of books taken in stores etc. Can’t be certain but I wouldn’t be surprised if employees get first chance to buy.

 Knockagh wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

I had this problem a few months ago during the sisters release. I went on to get the limited novel but it came out same day as the next seige book. So not wanting to miss the seige book I bought it first and the sisters book was gone when I went back. I went to the filthy scalpers to buy one and found one at £80 but it now. Bought it didn’t hear anything for weeks and then got an email saying the seller had a supply problem. In other words he never even had the item! I couldn’t believe it, left him a one star review and he went bonkers pleading with me to change it and then eventually calling me a liar! He even posted a reply to my review saying he had been let down by his supplier and that had caused the issue. I had never used eBay for books before and never will again. If I miss out I miss out. I’m pretty sure many of the eBay scalpers are GW employees. I’ve seen pictures of books taken in stores etc. Can’t be certain but I wouldn’t be surprised if employees get first chance to buy.

Sadly it happens, years back a local EBgames got cleaned out for it. Every employee was fired over Scalping issues. So i can imagine that someone at a GW somewhere would do it.

Nah.

No more special ordering privileges for GW employees. Havent been for years.

Pics taken in store are either customers grabbing a snap, or a scalper lifting them from a FB type post.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah.

No more special ordering privileges for GW employees. Havent been for years.

Pics taken in store are either customers grabbing a snap, or a scalper lifting them from a FB type post.

I dont think those Gav Thorpes and Crudaces had to sit down and refresh the GW site like mad, just to buy their set of Indomitus.

The guys that work at the GW shop in warsaw split the sister boxs, Which was kind of a bad, for people that tried to start SoB. But at other times it is funny to see, them try to sell the IG colonel model on polish trade sites for 450zl(a quarter what an army costs), and people trolling them with questions about how much the foil from the box cost etc.

Don't forget a lot of people won't be second hand selling yet until they've got the item in hand. So in 2 weeks the ebay stock will likely get flooded for a few days (before and after the launch day as some post goes out early) with people selling of their halves that they don't want.

Facebook for them is better right now in securing swaps and trades; and again there will be a spike when it all goes live.

IF GW are doing two shipping waves then, again, that will create two waves of people suddenly trading.

One thing has really become clear to me after yesterday and that is the absolute refusal of some people to support or use independent stockists.

I have two independent FLGS nearby, as well as a GW store. I saw people on facebook gnashing their teeth and tearing their hair out over the site going down or stuff being out of stock, meanwhile both of those two FLGS had Indomitus pre-orders going for like, 3 hours. In fact both of them gauged interest long beforehand by asking how many people/who would be interested in pre-ordering. As far as I know they've easily filled all of their pre-orders and actually are still keeping some in stock for release week because they over-ordered just to be safe.

But no, despite having plenty of chances to put their names down for a box, I've seen about a dozen local players just throw tantrums about not being to pre-order at 10am on the GW site on Saturday.

This is just mainly a vent at how some people don't want to actually support their local independent businesses who have been struggling in the midst of a global pandemic. feth those people. They can buy their gakky Space Marines for £1000 on Ebay for all I care. Hell, I'll be generous and sell my Indomitus Marines to them for £500 cuz I'm a nice guy.

Karol wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah.

No more special ordering privileges for GW employees. Havent been for years.

Pics taken in store are either customers grabbing a snap, or a scalper lifting them from a FB type post.

I dont think those Gav Thorpes and Crudaces had to sit down and refresh the GW site like mad, just to buy their set of Indomitus.

The guys that work at the GW shop in warsaw split the sister boxs, Which was kind of a bad, for people that tried to start SoB. But at other times it is funny to see, them try to sell the IG colonel model on polish trade sites for 450zl(a quarter what an army costs), and people trolling them with questions about how much the foil from the box cost etc.

450zl, 107 CHF.
considering pay and consume rates, that's so nuts that i wonder if they 'd have separated the foil or another 50 Zl

Apologies to the OP. I thought he was nuts. He wasn't far off at all.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Whatever you do, don't feed the scalpers. Every time someone feeds a scalper, Slaanesh does unspeakable things to a puppy.

It's a classic GW omnishambles, but the upside is there is a 100% chance they will be making way more of these, because the PR hit would be unbelievable if they didn't. So at worst, you'll have to wait a couple weeks.

Scalpers are the spawn of tzeench not slaneesh

100% there more money to be made so it will come


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
One thing has really become clear to me after yesterday and that is the absolute refusal of some people to support or use independent stockists.

I have two independent FLGS nearby, as well as a GW store. I saw people on facebook gnashing their teeth and tearing their hair out over the site going down or stuff being out of stock, meanwhile both of those two FLGS had Indomitus pre-orders going for like, 3 hours. In fact both of them gauged interest long beforehand by asking how many people/who would be interested in pre-ordering. As far as I know they've easily filled all of their pre-orders and actually are still keeping some in stock for release week because they over-ordered just to be safe.

But no, despite having plenty of chances to put their names down for a box, I've seen about a dozen local players just throw tantrums about not being to pre-order at 10am on the GW site on Saturday.

This is just mainly a vent at how some people don't want to actually support their local independent businesses who have been struggling in the midst of a global pandemic. feth those people. They can buy their gakky Space Marines for £1000 on Ebay for all I care. Hell, I'll be generous and sell my Indomitus Marines to them for £500 cuz I'm a nice guy.

Goddamn cultists

I wish I’d looked at independents more, even online. Some of them were selling for a £30 discount. I assumed GW would be first on the shelves and then the rest later

Given Covid I understand people not going down to their FLGS (if they are even currently open) to stand around with a load of other people but the bigger independent stockists had dual problems in that their allocations were smaller than expected and their websites ground to a halt due to traffic around 10am. This was the case with Element, Firestorm and plenty of others. The allocations were so low that many did not offer their 10 to 20% discount on the box. What shocked me most was the anger from a lot of people accusing the stores of profiteering by not offering a discount like they are entitled to it.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Given Covid I understand people not going down to their FLGS (if they are even currently open) to stand around with a load of other people but the bigger independent stockists had dual problems in that their allocations were smaller than expected and their websites ground to a halt due to traffic around 10am. This was the case with Element, Firestorm and plenty of others. The allocations were so low that many did not offer their 10 to 20% discount on the box. What shocked me most was the anger from a lot of people accusing the stores of profiteering by not offering a discount like they are entitled to it.

at the risk of sounding completely incendiary, I would offer that if there is one thing the gaming community is known for, specifically the social gaming industry is known for, it's being incredibly entitled.

Someone said it once, and I believe it to be true: Wizards of the Coast could put a $5.00 bill in every one of the packs they sell and the consumers would bitch about it because it wasn't $10.00.

As so many have noted, I really do think there will be plenty of boxes available. With this second run cooking up (if indeed that's what it is) and the number of independent stockers carrying them, I really do think that if you want one, you will be able to get one. It may not be on the 25th, but you will get one.

I really also don't think that GW could accurately gauge the results of this preorder. I honestly think they probably analyzed and determined they had enough of them. There were a lot of variables that were up against them on this. I would imagine just gauging the impact of a frozen/shut down economy in a global pandemic, and its effect on people buying luxury goods (which, during any economic decline, consumption of non-necessary goods typically decline) would have been an almost impossible variable to account for. Add to that the Warhammer 40,000 is far and away more popular than its ever been before, and you have two very conflicting, very difficult to gauge variables right there. I think when they launched they felt like their ca% was probably in the upper 30's and when it launched they found out that their allocation was wrong and they didn't make anywhere near enough and while their sellthrough was likely 100% their actual market penetration with this product was probably far below expectations. But it's very hard for me to pin that on GW alone.

these are, after all, very interesting times we live in.

Seabass wrote:

I really also don't think that GW could accurately gauge the results of this preorder. I honestly think they probably analyzed and determined they had enough of them .

yeah that is why to wrote in one of the first articles about the box that you need to be fast and ready to pre-order as soon as it goes live to get one because it is a limited offer

GW did accuratly guessed how much they want to sell and made just enough to sell them all within the first minutes of the pre-order, there was no miscalculation or underastimatiuon the demand

I am more thinking about that the managment would consider the marketing a fail because it took them 30 minutes to sell all and not just 5.

There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue. Why people are now back pedalling and saying oh there will be a second run and oh dont worry there will be buts to buy on ebay I just dont understand. Are you so blinded to see that GW has totally betrayed its customers on this one. The lies about we have made loads the holding back of stock for their own website it's a massive disgrace. And fools are still lapping it up and making excuses for them. Crazy.

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue. Why people are now back pedalling and saying oh there will be a second run and oh dont worry there will be buts to buy on ebay I just dont understand. Are you so blinded to see that GW has totally betrayed its customers on this one. The lies about we have made loads the holding back of stock for their own website it's a massive disgrace. And fools are still lapping it up and making excuses for them. Crazy.

At the end of the day, it doesnt really matter though does it? People can and will do what they like, the overly emotive language you use is worthy of a B movie scene.

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

Far as I can tell the "second run" is simply GW producing the single print run in two batches. Likely as a result of Corona meaning that they have to split packing for Indomitus with the rest of the model range. Remembering that they lost several months of production and packing in the warehouse and then had a massive shortfall of stock after reopening coupled to reduced staff working in the warehouse.

So this second wave is likely supposed to be front loaded for this week, but was put back to make room so that GW could keep the rest of the model lines in stock on their website, as best they can.

 Overread wrote:

UndeadD wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:
If people purchase a large number of regularly priced boxes of the new Necron sprue when it eventually comes out it will.reinforce GWs strategic decision and they will continue to do this type of release.

You mean like they've been doing for at least 3 or more years.

They've had this as normal practice for that long? When I was a kid back in 4th edition things seemed simpler. If this is a common GW practice I might need to look for a different hobby.

I wouldn't be that dramatic.

GW has for a good few years now been doing limited edition discount boxes to launch new models. They are limited in quantity and are used to help promote typically two armies getting a few new models. Sometimes its just one model, sometimes its more. They are short term discount deals. However the models that are new which go into them do go on general retail sale. So you don't miss out. Age of Sigmar did have some odd issues where a few boxes took a year (which is the current longest timeline and quite abnormal) to get to retail release. However in general the turn-around time is much shorter. I would expect several of the kits in Indomitus (if not all) to appear very quickly for individual sale. Things like warriors for the Necrons are bread-and-butter core units that they need.

Think of it like a short term sale period; sales don't last forever and they are a right pain if you miss them. However they are neat way to drum up interest. Plus you don't miss out because you can buy the models later. The nly thing you miss is the discount price.


Furthermore I should note that duel boxes mean that people end up with spare halves; so you can hit up ebay and facebook and forums to find people willing and eager to swap/sell their half that they don't want. Right now on FB there are quite a few sets swapping hands - you might pay £50 (rare at best) to £70 (high end but still considered fair price) for one "half" of the models. Prices can go higher but that's "normally" scalpers or the inexperienced overpricing.

All true BUT there is a massive difference. This is the new edition. It is the core of the whole business. It is the one product that every single 40K player needs and wants. By launching this first, instead of with a proper roll out, they have split their own fanbase and led to some getting it and some not. Let's be honest how many will have just shrugged their shoulders and thought "oh well I'll just get the BRB for now and see what happens". Some but a great many are thinking "f*** you GW I want in on the ground floor, on release day. It's the new edition, the thing that literally let's me play the damn game. Why should I have to wait weeks for some substandard set when you promised me everyone could have this?" This is a community in which a lot of people REALLY care, it is central to their lives. This is a complete and utter d*** move. If they had either a) released it as part of the full release so you could either have the standard set or, if you were lucky, pick up the special edition or b) produced enough to fulfil their clear promise of their being enough for everyone I wouldn't care. With a) you might not get the limited minis but you would get your starter set or with b) everyone is happy. This is a complete and utter disaster. They are launching their flagship, core product with only a minority or at best maybe half their fans having the set at release. When is the next chance to get any kind of starter? Apparently August. If I'm a diehard, it's my life 40K player, then I'm absolutely raging "why the hell can't I have a starter set on release???" By doing it this way they have de facto made Indomitus the starter set. Everyone wants one because it is the 9th edition of their favourite game. And naturally they want it on release, plus they were promised they could have it. So make them wait months then? Why on earth would you do that? These are people who simply won't be satisfied with the BRB, they want the plastic crack. If you don't release the starter til Christmas or whenever then your fanbase is now split between those who got their crack and those who didn't. Those with get on and play, those without seeth resentfully. I bet a lot simply won't play because they feel so p***ed off and why would you want to play against someone who will gloat and rub your nose in it that they got the great new minis with the great rules and you didn't? They could buy the BRB alone but this is 40K and we do starter sets, with big discounts and lovely new figs in them. If I can't get that then buying the BRB is just being fobbed off. I honestly don't know if they think they'd achieved b, if so then their market research is back to the awful place it was.

It is not just one army or some side campaign launching here, it is the new edition. No sane business launches something so core to their whole profitability in a way that instantly alienates and enrages a whole large chunk of their fanbase. Do they really want the interweb lit up with huge numbers complaining while watching eBay fill up with gloating scalpers preying so hideously on their loyal customers who are being effectively mocked and tempted to pay way way over the odds for something they were told repeatedly would be available to everyone.

It's a monumental car crash and I honestly think they have caused themselves enormous harm, at the very least they've wrecked the launch of their new flagship with acrimony, anger and resentment. Plus changed it from a big bang, we're all in it, excitement into a haves and have nots, some with the rules, some without, etc. I get why they do it for non core releases but this is a disaster pure and simple. They need to move really, really quickly to reassure the fans that they can have this and they can have it within a reasonable time frame, like days. Any more delay and division and it is going to hit them very, very hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:
One thing has really become clear to me after yesterday and that is the absolute refusal of some people to support or use independent stockists.

I have two independent FLGS nearby, as well as a GW store. I saw people on facebook gnashing their teeth and tearing their hair out over the site going down or stuff being out of stock, meanwhile both of those two FLGS had Indomitus pre-orders going for like, 3 hours. In fact both of them gauged interest long beforehand by asking how many people/who would be interested in pre-ordering. As far as I know they've easily filled all of their pre-orders and actually are still keeping some in stock for release week because they over-ordered just to be safe.

But no, despite having plenty of chances to put their names down for a box, I've seen about a dozen local players just throw tantrums about not being to pre-order at 10am on the GW site on Saturday.

This is just mainly a vent at how some people don't want to actually support their local independent businesses who have been struggling in the midst of a global pandemic. feth those people. They can buy their gakky Space Marines for £1000 on Ebay for all I care. Hell, I'll be generous and sell my Indomitus Marines to them for £500 cuz I'm a nice guy.

I waited patiently for my local FLGS to put their preorder up, because I ALWAYS use them and I thought I had a good relationship with them. They put up everything but the box and I thought "Oh no they've not got an allocation or maybe they took preorders instore??" then they did put the box up, with no discount. No warning in advance that they would not honour their commitment on the damn banner on their website which they always, always apply. Nothing. Plus they delayed long enough (just a few minutes) to be sure that their loyal customers had no chance to quickly switch to another local seller who did discount as normal. They basically put a gun to their customers' heads and said "take it or leave it". If that is the sort of disgusting, sharp practice my local supposedly trustworthy, friendly store is sinking to then frankly they can get far lost. I put one in the basket and then thought "no f____ you I'm not being treated like this" and walked away. I didn't get my box, but even if I have ordered with them there is zero guarantee I'd get it, they may well have ended up short on stock. I would have gone elsewhere or used GW for security of supply. Might be just one bad example but really and honestly. I quickly checked all the other local stores and all sold out completely. So I missed out thanks to my own shop, the one I had spent a huge amount of money in and been totally loyal to trying to scalp me. I don't think I'll ever buy their again. I worked out that they probably made a few thousand with that d*** move, perhaps £5k but I spend well over £1k EVERY year there so they have now lost out on a loyal customer.

Isengard wrote:

All true BUT there is a massive difference. This is the new edition. It is the core of the whole business. It is the one product that every single 40K player needs and wants.

The boxed set only has Necrons and Space Marines in it. Tyranid, Sisters of Battle, Ork, Eldar, Dark Eldar etc.... anyone who isn't playing those two armies doesn't need Indomitus. Unless their only interest is the basically free rulebook, at which point the models they get will likely be sold on secondhand for the market that does want them.

GW also put the regular rulebook and the chapter approved up for sale as well on the same day. So anyone that doesn't want to buy secondhand or buy Indomitus just to split it for the book can just get the books directly right now from GW or their local store. Sure Marines are a major market for GW, but they aren't the entire market. Plus, yet again, this is only a discount boxed set its not the only things being released for 9th edition.


As for your local not discounting you further ontop of the discount Indomitus already offers, honestly that just sounds like sour grapes from you. Especially considering even major 3rd party retailers have lowered or removed their GW discount. Stores lost out on months of sales and suffered supply issues and such. Maybe you kept buying warhammer from your local during the lockdown ,but you can bet casual walk-in purchases went down and things like opportunistic sales of card game packs and tournament card boxes (Eg booster draft) all went down and are likely going to remain down for a considerable period of time until stores can do gaming again. Heck considering how many stores rely heavily on card games they are likely really suffering; esp when Wizards is pushing more and more for their new online option.

Got mine pre-ordered from my not quite local indie, only really wanted the book, might hold onto the Marines and sell/swap Necrons locally

Only concern is getting cast out of the insufferable gw-haters club, good job its only imaginary

 Overread wrote:
Far as I can tell the "second run" is simply GW producing the single print run in two batches. Likely as a result of Corona meaning that they have to split packing for Indomitus with the rest of the model range. Remembering that they lost several months of production and packing in the warehouse and then had a massive shortfall of stock after reopening coupled to reduced staff working in the warehouse.

So this second wave is likely supposed to be front loaded for this week, but was put back to make room so that GW could keep the rest of the model lines in stock on their website, as best they can.

So much this. People really under estimate the lead times on products and an unexpected production halt (especially of months) will really throw a spanner in the works.

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

Do you even really understand what you're saying here? GW is considered a friendly garage startup?

Just, no.

I have never seen a game do so well by a community, that by all standards I can imagine, is objectively hated by the (at least mostly) vocal community on the internet?

Just, no. It's ok if you're upset you didn't get what you wanted (or maybe you did, I don't know) but pretending that people are looking favorably upon GW is clearly bereft of any observation of the community reaction to this.

Isengard wrote:
This is the new edition. It is the core of the whole business. It is the one product that every single 40K player needs and wants.

Just to reiterrate what has been said by others....This is not "the new edition". I play Drukhari, my interest in this box set was exactly zero, and while I am in the minority, I am not alone in this. 9th edition launches when the books are available to buy separately.

It was obviously going to happen once it was revealed the box would be so cheap.

Personally think GW could have easily charged £200, maybe even £250. Or whatever double is in your respective currency - and they'd have still got through the stock (although, perhaps not in half an hour.)

But then we'd have had threads about how GW was ripping off people who for some reason have been playing this expensive hobby for years and years, but their plastic addiction means they can't afford to eat.

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

No, I don't care because Evil MegaCorp or friendly garage company:
1) they're the ones making the models I want.
2) I don't have any problem getting what I want from them.
3) wether or not I care won't have any effect on 1 & 2. "Oh no, the company that makes my plastic toys lied to me about ____ !" (btw, what'd they lie to me about exactly?) So I just don't worry about them.

Tyel wrote:
It was obviously going to happen once it was revealed the box would be so cheap.

Personally think GW could have easily charged £200, maybe even £250. Or whatever double is in your respective currency - and they'd have still got through the stock (although, perhaps not in half an hour.)

But then we'd have had threads about how GW was ripping off people who for some reason have been playing this expensive hobby for years and years, but their plastic addiction means they can't afford to eat.

Exactly. GW could also have made it a webstore exclusive, and controlled sales that way...cue screeching about GW killing off independent retailers.

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

People don't care because for them, it's the only wargame in town. They sigh and complain but know they're going to keep paying or not play at all. Treating them as "they make friendly social media posts, surely they've changed!" just makes that bitter pill easier to swallow.

I think it's fair to say that quite a lot of the responses from the community have been an even greater flaming dumpster fire than GWs handling of the release.....I mean sheesh, I know scalpers suck, but people need to calm down a bit.

Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

Seabass wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

Do you even really understand what you're saying here? GW is considered a friendly garage startup?

Just, no.

I have never seen a game do so well by a community, that by all standards I can imagine, is objectively hated by the (at least mostly) vocal community on the internet?

Just, no. It's ok if you're upset you didn't get what you wanted (or maybe you did, I don't know) but pretending that people are looking favorably upon GW is clearly bereft of any observation of the community reaction to this.

there are some bubbles around that see GW as an evil Megacorp and/or 40k as a bad game

"the community" is different, switch the bubble and GW is the friendly Start-Up that still need time to learn how to write rules or to proper calculate the demand of Box-Sets, so people just need to be patient and keep buying so that GW is there long enough to figure those things out and get better

same as there are those bubbles that GW never did anything wrong and it was the evil community that caused games to fail, as well as those that consider 40k to be the best possible SciFi game that could be made as perfect balance is unachievable anyway

some of those folks are also here on dakka, others can be found on FB or Reddit (there were those nice discussions here that GW needs time to learn from bad written rules in 8th as if this was their first try on a SciFi game at all) but this part of the community is larger than the one who thinks of evil megacorps or bad written ruls, hence why GW can make that much money

it is part of their marketing and advertising, this is Nu-GW after all and they have nothing to do with old evil Kirby-GW and not even know anything about the games/rules that were made before (and it works very well)

PS: and I don't care, I learned my lesson long time ago and will never ever again buy into a new game (neither physical nor digital) in pre-order or start playing on release day

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

The vast majority of people play Space Marines and a sizeable portion of people will want to start a Necron army with the new releases (how long they stay committed to that project is a different story). A good proportion of people who don't 'main' Marines probably have an army of them as well, and with some of these models - supposedly - being limited sculpts they similarly don't want to miss out.

I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

Personally I have no idea if they will make more, but if they do not they are leaving money on the table. Any holdup in a second/third/whatever print run will be down to having to get the print materials ordered, made and shipped from China or whatever. In turn any sprue production will inevitably hit other planned releases as machines are possibly turned over to making more Primaris and Crons.

Let's not forget that their release schedule has already been severely altered this year. On one hand that means at least GW are currently more open and ready to change on the drop of a dime but equally they may be less willing to.

I assume that the past 24 hours at GW head office has seen them ask :

Are we making more?
Can we make more?
When can we release them?
How will this alter our release schedule?
And how in the hell are we going to rectify this PR disaster?

Hopefully the answers appear on a Warhammer Community article in short order.

mrFickle wrote:
I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

If GW made an announcement that, "Wow we're so shocked by the success of Indomitus!" and then said they'll have a two week window where any and all orders for the box will be honoured, albeit coming months later due to needing to be produced, I would not be surprised. This also has the benefit for them of positive PR spin "GW do listen to us guys!" and that in that time they'll probably sell a lot of rulebooks to those same people who want to get a game in NOW.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Given Covid I understand people not going down to their FLGS (if they are even currently open) to stand around with a load of other people but the bigger independent stockists had dual problems in that their allocations were smaller than expected and their websites ground to a halt due to traffic around 10am. This was the case with Element, Firestorm and plenty of others. The allocations were so low that many did not offer their 10 to 20% discount on the box. What shocked me most was the anger from a lot of people accusing the stores of profiteering by not offering a discount like they are entitled to it.

Do you know what royally pissed me off about this was the underhanded way it was done. No announcement that "sorry but we can't discount this". I'd be fine with that. I would go to someone who would and/or GW for security of supply. To not mention this and then to wait a few precious minutes before dropping the bombshell, leaving your customers with a straight choice of miss out or suck it up. That was what enraged me so much. Don't discount, fine. Always, always discount and don't even hint that you might not, let me draw up my budget and have an amount I know I can spend, that is in line with the discount you have applied EVERY damned time, then you are taking the proverbial. Running a business who's banner on the website states a certain discount of GW then picking and choosing when you apply that with no pre-warning is sharp practice at best. If the allocation is so low then what difference is a few £hundred going to make compared to misleading and cheating your customers? If I withdraw my business now they will lose a lot of money, over a long period of time for the sake of a few hundred quid? "Entitled"? Well if you clearly state a discount on your banner, literally the first thing on it then your customer is damned well entitled to you honouring that, or stating clearly that you won't. How can I trust them in future now. Every limited release they might decide "sod it we'll not discount that". I don't have money to throw away and GW is my major, major leisure spend so 20% off that is a massive part of my hobby allowances. I use the FLGS because they discount, if they don't do it, no sale, GW here we come. It's a business, they offer me a service and I accept their terms. If they start unilaterally choosing when to apply their own stated terms and that throws out my budgeting and ruins whatever plans I've got then hell yes I am entitled to be p***ed off. I am a customer, not some money pit that they can decide when to mine deeper. If GW do these limited editions and I want one, they sell out instantly. If I can't guarantee the discount I am told is on offer and only find out when the pre-order goes up that leaves me in a major problem. I won't have time to switch to another website, so I am likely to not go with them at all, because chances are when I try to switch it's too late. Foo me once and all that. So yes, if you advertise a discount your customers are quite literally entitled to it, because if you then magically decide not to apply it without warning on a product that they either accept the hit or miss out, then that is a disgraceful and cowardly ambush and it is lying and cheating. It is the store deciding that they can shaft their customers by forcing them to pay extra or miss out, it is like if I go down to Sony to pick up a new PS5 at Christmas and they advertise it at £500 on their website, then when I get to the front of the queue "sorry it's actually £750 now" and you know if you walk away it is months to wait, then you are being cheated. Same difference here. It might only be £25 but it all adds up and it might be that on every limited box from now on. If you warn me in advance then I can accept that, fair play, I go elsewhere. If you decide to reveal it on the day with a "take it or leave it" well then you are trying to scalp me plain and simple.

I don't think the mess is in any way intentional by GW....I take it as clownery all the way.

Perhaps GW could offer Blood of The Phoenix box sets to those that missed out

Mess is players having wrong expectations. Any who have seen limited edition sales before knew what to expect. Nothing Really surprising happened yesterday. slight surprise was it lasting as long as it did. Guess gw did make loads more than before.

 harlokin wrote:
I don't think the mess is in any way intentional by GW....I take it as clownery all the way.

Perhaps GW could offer Blood of The Phoenix box sets to those that missed out

At least people remember Blood of the Phoenix.

I hear the Wrath and Ruin box sets have weekly counselling sessions.

mrFickle wrote:
I do think this is somewhat Intentional from GW. The promised that they had made load and loads and said we shouldn’t worry, we got excited for what looks like a great release and 125 is a great price. They dropped it from 6 to 3 purchases, I would guess, knowing that they would get too much stick for letting half as many people buy up the stock.

They will do a second release but wait for everyone to get mega frustrated and hyped so it can sell out instantly again or at least fly off the shelves. My other thought is that it will be the same model set but the full 40 starter box now 160-180 pounds.

Why do I think this.... I work in a high demand customer focused environment. If something like this happened and I was genuinely suprised by the uptake, which then comprised a significant portion of customers, I would have at least sent out an email saying sorry this was unprecedented and we are going to do the following......

I don’t know much about the GW production line process but if they are using foreign production sources there is no way on gods green earth that they couldn’t have another 100k units made In a few weeks.

It's hard to know where the incompetence ends and the intention begins. Certainly the Catachan Colonel was intention, they could have done that made to order and had stores make a load off it, instead they gave out 1 or 2 and the three FLGS i know/follow (and im sure many are the same) all didn't know what to do with one model, would have felt gakky selling to the highest bidder, and so either did a random giveaway or did a raffle for charity, and didn't make anything off them.

THen we have this box set that went through:
'it will be available for a limited time only but we've made boat loads'
'you will be able to get one if you want one'
'you'll have to be quick'
'you'll need to be there on pre-order day'
and then sold out after ~15mins

it seems so odd that so many people on here are then having a go at the people who are annoyed because they weren't able to get one, and want to somehow blame the FOMO on them, when a) it's not FOMO if you do actually miss out, it's just missing out, and b) GW had a massive month long (6 weeks?) campaign of daily twitch videos and community articles all hyping it up, told everyone they would be able to get one, and then through incompetence or planning sold out after 15 mins. turning that into 'stupid consumer, why do you even care about getting the new edition with the super value box set, you'll be able to get everything over the next ~12months at 4x the cost anyway!' is just baffling, but also not, because its peak dakkadak

i mean this is the place where you regularly have people say stuff like

Blastaar wrote:


What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

i mean if you think that why are you here?

@Isengard, I get where you are coming from with those expectations given the discount applying at most of those stores most of the time (IIRC Feast of bones was originally at full rrp at Element and others due to the initial small print run, I think the Grand Master Edition of AT was the same). It is about communication, they should have been upfront with the price and their stock numbers which they clearly were not. I think the FLGS were blindsided by GW and in turn (whether on purpose or accidentally, I do not know) they ended up blind siding their customers.

The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Isengard wrote:
I would go to someone who would and/or GW for security of supply. To not mention this and then to wait a few precious minutes before dropping the bombshell, leaving your customers with a straight choice of miss out or suck it up. That was what enraged me so much.

i wouldn't read too much into this, there were a few websites that were late updating and i imagine its because they were getting hammered and having trouble. even waylands didn't go up until like 10 past, outpost's website completely crashed, giftforgeeks was i think about 10 past too, and all these three were running discounts and had no reason not to go live at 10.

Icegoat wrote:
The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Uh should never run out? What obligation gw has to make discount boxes? It's discount box. Not starter set.

Some entitlement there.

Just a point but how are GW leaving money on the table not making more? Each box is perhaps £4-500 worth of stock being sold for £100. Anyone who is a die-hard fan who "needs" that content will end up buying it for four to five times the price at regular retail values.

So GW isn't leaving money on the table. This isn't a once in a life time print of Dreadfleet that once its gone its gone; this is just a short term discount bundle of products that will go on general retail release.

This all reminds me of The Narcissist's Prayer:

That didn't happen. (GW won't make too few.)
And if it did, it wasn't that bad. (There's plenty even if some big stores got less than they asked for.)
And if it was, that's not a big deal. (What's the problem? It's just plastic toys, you nut)
And if it is, that's not my fault. (Coronavirus is at fault for halting production, not GW!)
And if it was, I didn't mean it. (GW didn't anticipate demand / GW made an honest mistake.)
And if I did...
You deserved it.

Icegoat wrote:
The line of this thread is absolutely hilarious and tragic for those defending GW it started with ont be so stupid they will never run out of indomitus it will be in the shelves for months. Then it was it might run out but we dont know to oh of course it ran out ot was limited edition we always knew it would sell out quickly. Then it was dont worry obscure flgs and ebay scalpers will be selling it. Now it's why do you guys even care about this box get over it it's just plastic. This is a 40k forum people with that attitude and that blindness and subservience to GW should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgrace this box set should never have sold out but GW did this no one else.

Subservience? And what are you exactly? The rebel revolutionary?

I understood Indomitus as what it was. A sale.

Lots of people lost the sale opportunity. I could have as well for a matter of minutes. Scalpers might be a problem, yes, but no idea why people are blaming GW over this fiasco

GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

The difference is needing and wanting to though. You may only need a £35 box of assault intercessors or a £40 rulebook. In turn it is better to get £125 when the buyer may not need most of it. How many of our wargaming friends or selves have hundreds of pounds of product stored away and unused somewhere? I am far more likely to spend the money on a splash release like this rather than 4 or five times that money on piecemeal releases as the months roll on.

Did I buy the box, yes, I like the marines in it and I want to give necrons a try.

Is the whole release strategy horrible and likely to annoy a lot of people, also yes.

I only bought the box because I’ll end up buying the rule book and those marines probably off eBay and I don’t want to be charged through the nose for them. GW knew this box was going to sell out in a short space of time, and if they didn’t they’re either real dumb or should get the marketing team to dial down the hype. A lot of people on here make the mistake of not realising everyone in the hobby is as in the loop as us, people were unaware of the box even being released, they’re were people interested but not realised when it went on sale or even that it was due. It’s just going to leave people feeling a bit jaded and left out.

My question?

Did OP get a copy?

Did he even want a copy?

Or is it all just manufactured outrage for reasons best known to himself?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My question?

Did OP get a copy?

Did he even want a copy?

Or is it all just manufactured outrage for reasons best known to himself?

I think that OP was pretty obviously a setup to be able to come back and post HAHA I WAS RIGHT SHEEPLE later on, sadly.

Manufactured outrage is my call.

I see we're onto the "You deserved it!" stage of the Narcissist's Prayer. I think I posted a few posts too early.

 Overread wrote:
Just a point but how are GW leaving money on the table not making more? Each box is perhaps £4-500 worth of stock being sold for £100. Anyone who is a die-hard fan who "needs" that content will end up buying it for four to five times the price at regular retail values.

So GW isn't leaving money on the table. This isn't a once in a life time print of Dreadfleet that once its gone its gone; this is just a short term discount bundle of products that will go on general retail release.

When you say 4-500 pound of stock do you mean if it were sold as separate units on the shelf? Cos that is the wrong way to look at the value of the stock. The fact that is sold for 125 doesn’t mean they are under cutting themselves or doing us a favour, it’s evidence of the amount of markup on most products. GW is the only uk store that continued to make a profit and increase its share price proves that they make money on every sale.

Their business model is to create demand and control supply. It’s not new and it’s fair enough. But it’s not a business model that that should be defended by customers because it’s the demand is based on want of the product not satisfaction of.

GW could have stated the price and set pre orders before production started and fulfilled every order, even if we had to accept Covid related delays. We would have accepted that I’m sure. But if they did that it will instantly undermine the whole business model because suddenly our expectations are changed.

 auticus wrote:
Kind of. The thing with video games though is typically unless its just blatant pay to win, if I buy a video game thats pvp, I don't have to invest a ton of money into buying the faction first, and the company doesn't then invalidate my faction by making it crap at their annual FAQ/"rebalancing" session that forces me to buy a new faction to keep playing.

I can just jump over to a different faction typically.

It depends on the game.

Someone mentioned FIFA. Most people who consider themselves gamers don't interact with or think about sports games. Sports games have long since had the most predatory monetization properties in gaming, but because there is that divide, gamers only notice when monetization tested in sports migrates to a more traditional game. Like, oh, battlefront 2. All the horrible gak people flipped out over? Been in FIFA for yeeeeeears.

But often it's not even about winning. Fortnite, still number one popular game on the planet, doesn't give a feth about the W. What is does care about and what it pushes its players, a large proportion children, to seek is self expression tools. Monetizing how you look and interact. And this has, well, a detrimental effect on interactions tween the kids that can, through permissive parents and economic security, express themselves, and those that can't. Cause kids are more honestly gakky with each other over the things we're generally gakky with each other about.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blastaar wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

It certainly is terrible if people are having fun. We can't have that.

I bough the box because the models are amazing. Easily worth the money.

I wouldn't call them "amazing." The sculpts have some serious flaws. The captain posing for a photo shoot on the middle of the battlefield. The veterans who donned their tabards and armor in the wrong sequence. The grip on the super-meltas. The pig-nosed necrons. The goofy drapes on the characters. The unnecessarily-huge support structure for the tripods' melee weapons. I don't care for GW's move away from gauss rods, either- thankful 3rd parties still make them.

Continuing to buy minis, however pretty, does not encourage GW to write better rules, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

You misunderstand me. If socializing is the priority, not gaming, why bother with any game? Is it impossible for some folks to converse without chucking dice?

What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

For some people? Yes it is difficult for them to interact without the context of a game.

The very idea that the best way to interact is over beers at a pub is actually kind of old fashioned and separately gross. And if this is actually your primary form of interaction, it won't be cheaper either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:

 Knockagh wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Thing is some scalpers have had preorders up on ebay for nigh on two weeks, no doubt the suckers will have been expecting more boxes than they actually got. Most of their pre order auctions are filled with provisos that the auction is dependent upon getting a supply so hopefully a lot of them have been burned and are now furiously having to offer refunds. Not sure if PayPal or ebay take any cut on that but even if they have not lost some money they will certainly have wasted a lot of time. Small joys and all that.

I had this problem a few months ago during the sisters release. I went on to get the limited novel but it came out same day as the next seige book. So not wanting to miss the seige book I bought it first and the sisters book was gone when I went back. I went to the filthy scalpers to buy one and found one at £80 but it now. Bought it didn’t hear anything for weeks and then got an email saying the seller had a supply problem. In other words he never even had the item! I couldn’t believe it, left him a one star review and he went bonkers pleading with me to change it and then eventually calling me a liar! He even posted a reply to my review saying he had been let down by his supplier and that had caused the issue. I had never used eBay for books before and never will again. If I miss out I miss out. I’m pretty sure many of the eBay scalpers are GW employees. I’ve seen pictures of books taken in stores etc. Can’t be certain but I wouldn’t be surprised if employees get first chance to buy.

Sadly it happens, years back a local EBgames got cleaned out for it. Every employee was fired over Scalping issues. So i can imagine that someone at a GW somewhere would do it.

Someone at a GW somewhere DID do it. Years ago. And GW took away privileges from all their employees over it.

Dudeface wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue. Why people are now back pedalling and saying oh there will be a second run and oh dont worry there will be buts to buy on ebay I just dont understand. Are you so blinded to see that GW has totally betrayed its customers on this one. The lies about we have made loads the holding back of stock for their own website it's a massive disgrace. And fools are still lapping it up and making excuses for them. Crazy.

At the end of the day, it doesnt really matter though does it? People can and will do what they like, the overly emotive language you use is worthy of a B movie scene.

No need to insult B-movies like that, Dudeface - this ranting wouldn't even make it into The Room...

 Overread wrote:
As for your local not discounting you further ontop of the discount Indomitus already offers, honestly that just sounds like sour grapes from you. Especially considering even major 3rd party retailers have lowered or removed their GW discount. Stores lost out on months of sales and suffered supply issues and such. Maybe you kept buying warhammer from your local during the lockdown ,but you can bet casual walk-in purchases went down and things like opportunistic sales of card game packs and tournament card boxes (Eg booster draft) all went down and are likely going to remain down for a considerable period of time until stores can do gaming again. Heck considering how many stores rely heavily on card games they are likely really suffering; esp when Wizards is pushing more and more for their new online option.

While I agree some of what was described seems a bit dodgy, the reaction seems disproportionate for, what, £25 at most?

 Arbitrator wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I don't think the mess is in any way intentional by GW....I take it as clownery all the way.

Perhaps GW could offer Blood of The Phoenix box sets to those that missed out

At least people remember Blood of the Phoenix.

I hear the Wrath and Ruin box sets have weekly counselling sessions.

As someone who only has Nurgle Daemons at the minute, I keep looking a W&R and thinking about picking one up - but I should get closer to up-to-date with my Nurgle Daemons first. Which means 20 Plaguebearers as a starting point.

Seabass wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Given Covid I understand people not going down to their FLGS (if they are even currently open) to stand around with a load of other people but the bigger independent stockists had dual problems in that their allocations were smaller than expected and their websites ground to a halt due to traffic around 10am. This was the case with Element, Firestorm and plenty of others. The allocations were so low that many did not offer their 10 to 20% discount on the box. What shocked me most was the anger from a lot of people accusing the stores of profiteering by not offering a discount like they are entitled to it.

at the risk of sounding completely incendiary, I would offer that if there is one thing the gaming community is known for, specifically the social gaming industry is known for, it's being incredibly entitled.

Someone said it once, and I believe it to be true: Wizards of the Coast could put a $5.00 bill in every one of the packs they sell and the consumers would bitch about it because it wasn't $10.00.

As so many have noted, I really do think there will be plenty of boxes available. With this second run cooking up (if indeed that's what it is) and the number of independent stockers carrying them, I really do think that if you want one, you will be able to get one. It may not be on the 25th, but you will get one.

I really also don't think that GW could accurately gauge the results of this preorder. I honestly think they probably analyzed and determined they had enough of them. There were a lot of variables that were up against them on this. I would imagine just gauging the impact of a frozen/shut down economy in a global pandemic, and its effect on people buying luxury goods (which, during any economic decline, consumption of non-necessary goods typically decline) would have been an almost impossible variable to account for. Add to that the Warhammer 40,000 is far and away more popular than its ever been before, and you have two very conflicting, very difficult to gauge variables right there. I think when they launched they felt like their ca% was probably in the upper 30's and when it launched they found out that their allocation was wrong and they didn't make anywhere near enough and while their sellthrough was likely 100% their actual market penetration with this product was probably far below expectations. But it's very hard for me to pin that on GW alone.

these are, after all, very interesting times we live in.

Being entitled to better deals is a good thing to be entitled for. If the entire hobby community stood up and demanded cheaper plastic and acted with their wallets.... we'd get cheaper plastic.

Certainly better than the people who feel entitled that every character has to look like them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

There's a reason why GW wants literally everyone to have a space marine army


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

Seabass wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Icegoat wrote:
There is no second run people have latched onto something that is totally untrue.

there are shops who already take pre-orders for a second run shipped on August, so something must be there, if it is really another production run or just somehting that is already on stock but meant to be shipped later or the real 2-player starter set is something we don't know yet

and GW is constantly lying to the costumer, but people just don't care, because GW is still seen as the friendly garage-company start-up that must be forgiven because they don't have figured it out yet

Do you even really understand what you're saying here? GW is considered a friendly garage startup?

Just, no.

I have never seen a game do so well by a community, that by all standards I can imagine, is objectively hated by the (at least mostly) vocal community on the internet?

Just, no. It's ok if you're upset you didn't get what you wanted (or maybe you did, I don't know) but pretending that people are looking favorably upon GW is clearly bereft of any observation of the community reaction to this.

there are some bubbles around that see GW as an evil Megacorp and/or 40k as a bad game

"the community" is different, switch the bubble and GW is the friendly Start-Up that still need time to learn how to write rules or to proper calculate the demand of Box-Sets, so people just need to be patient and keep buying so that GW is there long enough to figure those things out and get better

same as there are those bubbles that GW never did anything wrong and it was the evil community that caused games to fail, as well as those that consider 40k to be the best possible SciFi game that could be made as perfect balance is unachievable anyway

some of those folks are also here on dakka, others can be found on FB or Reddit (there were those nice discussions here that GW needs time to learn from bad written rules in 8th as if this was their first try on a SciFi game at all) but this part of the community is larger than the one who thinks of evil megacorps or bad written ruls, hence why GW can make that much money

it is part of their marketing and advertising, this is Nu-GW after all and they have nothing to do with old evil Kirby-GW and not even know anything about the games/rules that were made before (and it works very well)

PS: and I don't care, I learned my lesson long time ago and will never ever again buy into a new game (neither physical nor digital) in pre-order or start playing on release day

I mean, GW is hardly a megacorp. But it's a big enough corp to be utterly amoral. It exists for shareholder profit, and we're the product, not the consumer.


Also, like, companies have millions upon millions to self promote and talk themselves up and hundreds to thousands of randos who leap at the chance to defend them for any reason for no returns. Gotta have a few people who take a hardline stance against them and don't forgive them for anything they do.

stratigo wrote:
If the entire hobby community stood up and demanded cheaper plastic and acted with their wallets.... we'd get cheaper plastic.

Not necessarily, or at least that might not be all we got. We might get cheaper plastics; we might also see specialist games being dropped. We might see the new TV shows being dropped; Forgeworld; the volume of BL books etc.... Free online apps like the Warscroll builder might be removed. Just denying a company money won't make them keep doing what they do cheaper; most companies will cut excess outlaying projects and focus on their core product and market first.

GW might also not deduce that price is the issue and might start to adjust other things; perhaps they'll cut army sizes dramatically so that instead of what we now see at 2K points; we'd see equivalent 500 point armies being the "main" focus of the game instead.


Part of what lets GW do a lot of what they do are the profits they generate, very directly so because GW doesn't produce new models and develop new lines and new factory space with loans. GW's expansion of what they offer us is purely done with the profits and excess they generate being ploughed back into the company. And sure they also take that profit home for themselves and shareholders as well. However if you take a company that has a policy of not using loans and deny them profits then that's going to eat into what they can invest into. It's unlikely that skilled staff and key position staff would welcome pay cuts so that means GW would likely start making product and investment cuts first.

We all love GW's current release rate and increased game support; that that goes hand in hand with their profits rising is no accident.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Yeah seriously, why would EVERYONE who plays 40K want this Indomitus box set? Its only Space Marines and Necrons. Order the 9th edition rulebook and play with any of the excellent armies besides the dudes in blue and the resurrecting robots. Alot of unnecessary drama in this thread honestly. ill bet if half the winers on this thread actually started calling around the local 40K game stores and put in a pre order they might see it sooner rather than later anyways.

Because they made it the de facto starter set, by not even hinting at the release date for another starter they turned this into the launch starter. That's how we buy 40K we get the starter. Ever since 8th we expect the full BRB in there too. So they have basically punted it to the consumer as "this is the starter, we aren't calling it the starter but it is in every meaningful way." Buying the BRB is a very poor and disappointing substitute to getting some new plastic crack, stuff you can trade off or swap, etc or add to your army. I thought about the BRB but it's not going to fly. I am used to getting the starter on release day. So they have set it up as the effective starter and promised there are more than enough and everyone can have one, plus if you miss out it is not a case of just get the basic starter there is NO other option and nothing slated to release for months to plug the gap. So everyone I know who is into 40K wants this. If they haven't got it they feel extremely p***ed off and cheated because they have not been able to get the starter for the new edition on release day like they always did. It's a colossal, titanic own goal by GW that has angered a massive swathe of their customer base.

 harlokin wrote:
GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

Again, I don't know why you see this as something binary. GW can commit to both shady business practices and be dumb at the same time.

Though I warrant BotP was more a market test that anything else. See if they actually can charge literally anything and people will still buy it.



And ultimately, what's the difference to you if GW commits an action out of stupidity or because they're trying to manipulate you? They still commit the action

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or is it all just manufactured outrage for reasons best known to himself?

There's nothing manufactured about the outrage people are feeling for missing out on this box.

Of course I i did not buy one of these foul sets. I said from the start I'm not jumping on the anti consumer fomo hype train just to be disappointed like so many thousand others are now. My necron army lays moldy waiting for the day GW actual releases something properly. This is a disgusting way of doing buisness. It only hurts the end user. All the scum shills scalpers and bot farmers are happy but most going into their flgs or trying to buy honestly from GWs own website have been completely left out and hope it a totally puts a lot of people off of this or stops them even getting started as this was the worst muck up I've ever seen

 Overread wrote:

stratigo wrote:
If the entire hobby community stood up and demanded cheaper plastic and acted with their wallets.... we'd get cheaper plastic.

Not necessarily, or at least that might not be all we got. We might get cheaper plastics; we might also see specialist games being dropped. We might see the new TV shows being dropped; Forgeworld; the volume of BL books etc.... Free online apps like the Warscroll builder might be removed. Just denying a company money won't make them keep doing what they do cheaper; most companies will cut excess outlaying projects and focus on their core product and market first.

GW might also not deduce that price is the issue and might start to adjust other things; perhaps they'll cut army sizes dramatically so that instead of what we now see at 2K points; we'd see equivalent 500 point armies being the "main" focus of the game instead.


Part of what lets GW do a lot of what they do are the profits they generate, very directly so because GW doesn't produce new models and develop new lines and new factory space with loans. GW's expansion of what they offer us is purely done with the profits and excess they generate being ploughed back into the company. And sure they also take that profit home for themselves and shareholders as well. However if you take a company that has a policy of not using loans and deny them profits then that's going to eat into what they can invest into. It's unlikely that skilled staff and key position staff would welcome pay cuts so that means GW would likely start making product and investment cuts first.

We all love GW's current release rate and increased game support; that that goes hand in hand with their profits rising is no accident.

How much of GW's profits go back into the company in a way that improves the company (As in, not just stock buybacks)? No really I want to know. I suspect it isn't as much as goes to dividends and executive bonuses. But this actually might be something we can track. Anyone have GW's financials?

But yes, GW's response might be "feth you for daring stand up to us". But eventually they'd have to adjust the prices down or die.

stratigo wrote:

 Overread wrote:

stratigo wrote:
If the entire hobby community stood up and demanded cheaper plastic and acted with their wallets.... we'd get cheaper plastic.

Not necessarily, or at least that might not be all we got. We might get cheaper plastics; we might also see specialist games being dropped. We might see the new TV shows being dropped; Forgeworld; the volume of BL books etc.... Free online apps like the Warscroll builder might be removed. Just denying a company money won't make them keep doing what they do cheaper; most companies will cut excess outlaying projects and focus on their core product and market first.

GW might also not deduce that price is the issue and might start to adjust other things; perhaps they'll cut army sizes dramatically so that instead of what we now see at 2K points; we'd see equivalent 500 point armies being the "main" focus of the game instead.


Part of what lets GW do a lot of what they do are the profits they generate, very directly so because GW doesn't produce new models and develop new lines and new factory space with loans. GW's expansion of what they offer us is purely done with the profits and excess they generate being ploughed back into the company. And sure they also take that profit home for themselves and shareholders as well. However if you take a company that has a policy of not using loans and deny them profits then that's going to eat into what they can invest into. It's unlikely that skilled staff and key position staff would welcome pay cuts so that means GW would likely start making product and investment cuts first.

We all love GW's current release rate and increased game support; that that goes hand in hand with their profits rising is no accident.

How much of GW's profits go back into the company in a way that improves the company (As in, not just stock buybacks)? No really I want to know. I suspect it isn't as much as goes to dividends and executive bonuses. But this actually might be something we can track. Anyone have GW's financials?

But yes, GW's response might be "feth you for daring stand up to us". But eventually they'd have to adjust the prices down or die.

And by the time they adjust prices we might have far less intricate models; far less range and perhaps less in general.

AS for the finances they publish them every year publicly - It's somewhere on the webste, but if you google you should be able to find the various shareholder meetings where they are shown. In fact oddly Warhammer fans online actually pay attention to them WAY more than almost any other fanbase.

As for an example, last year they spent over £9million on a new factory and land in Nottingham to increase production; meanwhile they also gave their entire staff a bonus due to sales (it was something like £1-2 thousand if I recall right). In general you can track their profits and what gets put back and what goes out into pure profits. It's all aggregate numbers for the shareholders so it doesn't go into fine detail of "this kit sold the best and this army is doing badly"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icegoat wrote:
Of course I i did not buy one of these foul sets. I said from the start I'm not jumping on the anti consumer fomo hype train just to be disappointed like so many thousand others are now. My necron army lays moldy waiting for the day GW actual releases something properly. This is a disgusting way of doing buisness. It only hurts the end user. All the scum shills scalpers and bot farmers are happy but most going into their flgs or trying to buy honestly from GWs own website have been completely left out and hope it a totally puts a lot of people off of this or stops them even getting started as this was the worst muck up I've ever seen

Have you considered that perhaps its time to put GW aside and do something else? Considering that you also hate Age of Sigmar as well. Right now I just don't see what YOU get from the hobby. Where's your joy, fun, engagement, entertainment.

stratigo wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

Again, I don't know why you see this as something binary. GW can commit to both shady business practices and be dumb at the same time.

Though I warrant BotP was more a market test that anything else. See if they actually can charge literally anything and people will still buy it.


And ultimately, what's the difference to you if GW commits an action out of stupidity or because they're trying to manipulate you? They still commit the action

It doesn't matter to me, I am commenting on the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' line of argument being pursued ad nauseum by a selection of vintners, who seemingly have no stake in the hobby other than to perpetuate drama and fauxrage on forums.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This all reminds me of The Narcissist's Prayer:

That didn't happen. (GW won't make too few.)
And if it did, it wasn't that bad. (There's plenty even if some big stores got less than they asked for.)
And if it was, that's not a big deal. (What's the problem? It's just plastic toys, you nut)
And if it is, that's not my fault. (Coronavirus is at fault for halting production, not GW!)
And if it was, I didn't mean it. (GW didn't anticipate demand / GW made an honest mistake.)
And if I did...
You deserved it.

You should really warm up before attempting a stretch like that.

stratigo wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

Again, I don't know why you see this as something binary. GW can commit to both shady business practices and be dumb at the same time.

Though I warrant BotP was more a market test that anything else. See if they actually can charge literally anything and people will still buy it.



And ultimately, what's the difference to you if GW commits an action out of stupidity or because they're trying to manipulate you? They still commit the action

I don't understand why people think GW is intentionally enabling scalpers. That makes no sense. GW would much rather have happy customers than happy scalpers. . . and enabling scalpers means someone ELSE is getting rich on their work, which we all know makes GW gnash their teeth. I wouldn't be surprised to see GW move to in-store pre orders only at some point, or some sort of verification system.

With regard to the ordering from GW or FLGS, I would add there was NO WAY I was going to preorder from my FLGS. In the past i've seen GW cancel pre-orders from the FLGS to fulfill preorders from their own stores too many times. I was execited for this box, and I didn't want to get an email next weekend saying my order has been canceled due to shortage. And pre-ordering from the local GW is a crap shoot, since they just have you use their computers to pre-order. I'm very glad I didn't do that, I heard they only got three people through the line before it crashed.

 argonak wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

Again, I don't know why you see this as something binary. GW can commit to both shady business practices and be dumb at the same time.

Though I warrant BotP was more a market test that anything else. See if they actually can charge literally anything and people will still buy it.



And ultimately, what's the difference to you if GW commits an action out of stupidity or because they're trying to manipulate you? They still commit the action

I don't understand why people think GW is intentionally enabling scalpers. That makes no sense. GW would much rather have happy customers than happy scalpers. . . and enabling scalpers means someone ELSE is getting rich on their work, which we all know makes GW gnash their teeth. I wouldn't be surprised to see GW move to in-store pre orders only at some point, or some sort of verification system.

With regard to the ordering from GW or FLGS, I would add there was NO WAY I was going to preorder from my FLGS. In the past i've seen GW cancel pre-orders from the FLGS to fulfill preorders from their own stores too many times. I was execited for this box, and I didn't want to get an email next weekend saying my order has been canceled due to shortage. And pre-ordering from the local GW is a crap shoot, since they just have you use their computers to pre-order. I'm very glad I didn't do that, I heard they only got three people through the line before it crashed.

Because GW don't care. They wanted a frenzy over it and dropped enough boxes that they moved X boxes at Y price they don't care if the cash came from 1 person or from 100 000.

If they wanted to show they *do* care they'd release a statement saying "hey, here's an open pre order list, same package but now the price is $200." and everyone will be happy. Those who missed the 15 minite window of super cheap can still get it at a good price, the scalpers will we stuck with kits they'll have to move for far less than expected and plenty more people will get the kits.

Unless you are a GMFY type of person you shouldn't care that others got your "limited release" kit at a slightly later date. It'll be like people buying early access to computer games. The fact you get the same game as me but a week later doesn't diminish my game.

mrFickle has it, and nobody listened. I'd be surprised if the contents of the box cost GW as much as £40. They sell to retail at just under 60% of the RRP, so it cost the retailers £75.

What makes a character worth £25, or a plastic tank "worth" £50? That's GW's choice, to find a market niche that none of their competitors will - or even can - compete in. Nobody else sells chaotic birdmen, steampunk dwarf pirates, or skeletal space robots. Few of the other companies making minis can do the dynamic, tiptoe sculpts surrounded by energy swirls. Or did you think that was just GW showing off?

Rule no 1 for small businesses (and GW are still not huge in the Big Scheme of things - probably about the size of ONE of Hasbro's IP lines) is "don't compete on price, the big boys will squash you". GW's weakness was it's heavy infrastructure - at one point late in Kirby's reign, back-office and store rental costs were eating 50% of revenue.

So GW Marketing's job is to use all the usual tricks of late capitalism to persuade up to want THEIR stuff, not generic plastic elfmen. Hype, limited access to the product, telling you that what may be as little as £25 worth of plastic and paper is actually worth £400-500 and they're doing you a favour by selling it to you - ok some of you - for £125. The chatty painting videos, even the games themselves, are there to flog you more stuff.

Now I like GW's stuff, and I use their paints a lot. I don't grudge them trying to make a living. Their prices ARE relatively high, although I've been saying for nearly 20 years that a box of GW troops is a good-value skirmish gaming force in itself. Each of us has to judge the value and utility for ourselves.

My next project will be space dwarfs for a 40k 2nd ed project. Probably Wargames Atlantic for the troops and GW Kharadron for the exo-suits.

 argonak wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
GW are apparently evil geniuses who want to help scalpers by making Indomitus great value, but not producing an unlimited number of the boxes. Then they are also the idiots who made Blood of The Phoenix, which was overpriced and full of useless, reheated gak.

The only sane conclusion is that GW are conspiring with Icegoat, to give him something to vent his spleen over.

Again, I don't know why you see this as something binary. GW can commit to both shady business practices and be dumb at the same time.

Though I warrant BotP was more a market test that anything else. See if they actually can charge literally anything and people will still buy it.



And ultimately, what's the difference to you if GW commits an action out of stupidity or because they're trying to manipulate you? They still commit the action

I don't understand why people think GW is intentionally enabling scalpers. That makes no sense. GW would much rather have happy customers than happy scalpers. . . and enabling scalpers means someone ELSE is getting rich on their work, which we all know makes GW gnash their teeth. I wouldn't be surprised to see GW move to in-store pre orders only at some point, or some sort of verification system.

With regard to the ordering from GW or FLGS, I would add there was NO WAY I was going to preorder from my FLGS. In the past i've seen GW cancel pre-orders from the FLGS to fulfill preorders from their own stores too many times. I was execited for this box, and I didn't want to get an email next weekend saying my order has been canceled due to shortage. And pre-ordering from the local GW is a crap shoot, since they just have you use their computers to pre-order. I'm very glad I didn't do that, I heard they only got three people through the line before it crashed.

GW doesn't want to enable scalpers. But if a side effect of their policy of hype and FOMO enables scalpers, then GW also only cares minimally. What GW cares about is that the bundle sells, which, hoy boy it did, and that every future bundle sells, and they can subtly (or not) point to this bundle and go "And you don't want to miss out like you did last time". Scalpers are just a side effect GW puts relatively minimal effort into dealing with.

Responding to Shooter:

I am here because I still have an interest, and would very much like to see an edition with more depth that I would enjoy playing again.

40k has never been an especially deep ruleset, from what I hear and from my own experiences. But 8th was what really did it for me. I enjoyed 5th, and 7th when me and my opponents' forces were much more comparable to most of the edition. I've also played many other games since starting 40k, and the game really is lacking in key areas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stratigo wrote:

 auticus wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I mean my area is going ga ga over it. They are pumping money hand over fist at GW. Its amazing.

Caveat most of those guys don't care if they get mudhole stomped by ITC lists, they think thats equally "fun". The socialization aspect of the game (the fact that every week in a non rona environment there are 20-30 40k guys piled into the room) is largely why they gleefully set their money on fire and throw it at GW.

I don't understand that type of thinking. If socializing is the priority, why play 40k? Why not a cheaper game? Why not just hang out over a couple beers?

Because they like the models? Because they like the setting? Maybe, and this is a crazy thought, they actually like 40K as a game?

You misunderstand me. If socializing is the priority, not gaming, why bother with any game? Is it impossible for some folks to converse without chucking dice?

What's to like in 40k's gameplay, anyway? It's an exercise in rolling dice and removing models. 7th was more fun than this, despite the massive imbalance. Or maybe the brain-dead aspect is desirable, in our checked-out, lazy world.

For some people? Yes it is difficult for them to interact without the context of a game.

The very idea that the best way to interact is over beers at a pub is actually kind of old fashioned and separately gross. And if this is actually your primary form of interaction, it won't be cheaper either.

I used pubs as an example because it's a common one here on dakka. Socializing costs nothing, nor are activities or refreshments required to converse.

This isn't to say that social activities have no value. But I do find the concept of investing heavily in a game so expensive in terms of money, as well as time and effort, while caring little for or about the gameplay, nonsensical. There are far cheaper and better written games out there for simply hanging out than Warhammer.