Tastyfish wrote: I'm all in for Mjolner's Shipbreakers, with a bunch of retcons that more or less sticks to the basics we know (including the fight against Tyranids) and has the survivors of the leagues now nomadic spacers rather than underground miners. Aliens powerlifters meets Alien Resurrections oddball crew for the Kill Team. Living ancestor in his old exoarmour perhaps.
Just as long as we still get the Demiurg for T'au...
the tyranids eating them was just an offhand comment, this is the quote:
"Would you believe they were all eaten by the Tyranid invasion? Or, due to the Squats biker life style, everyone of them was arrested for disturbing the peace and sacrificed to the Emperor. Where do you think they get all of those souls anyway? All kidding aside, it doesn't seem likely the Squats will ever again see the light of day. When they were out they never seemed very popular, showed up at our stores, or tournaments, and didn't sell on top of all that. Their look was really outdated compared to the hundreds of other great Warhammer 40,000 models. Don't send us hate mail, it's just the cold hard facts of the 41st Millennium."
- unnamed GW employee
Unless it has been written into the canon further?
They added a new foreword to the original Ian Watson Inquisitor novel. Basically it said that the events of the novel were impossible to corroborate and gave various reasons, such as in passing mentioning how the Squats' homeworlds had been consumed by the Tyranids.
The animation was way more fun that watching a Marine get dressed.
Togusa wrote: How would SoB players have reacted to this?
We know that pretty well. Between GW getting a social media presence and the 2017 survey that established to them that there was genuine customer interest in Sisters of Battle, they let the Internet know on a few occasions that they were in on the plastic Sisters joke. Which was not well received by Sisters fans and combined with the years of lacking support led to recurring (bitter) comments well past the official announcement of the Sisters' range update that GW was just playing a joke. Markedly on GW's end the survey ended any jokes about Sisters very abruptly and they've been treated as a serious faction since, to the point that the 8th ed launch trailer didn't just feature the editions two showcase armies, Marines and Necrons, but also had a strong and otherwise completely unrelated Sisters presence.
Conventionally I wouldn't put it past GW to have learned nothing from that experience, but even GW deserves the benefit of the doubt sometimes, so unless I see nothing come of this announcement (or GW outright stating it to be a joke), I'm going to assume the announcement of Squats is real and the joke is in the timing of the announcement.
Wiz Warrior wrote: A kill team would make an excellent beginning though. Help gauge interest and do some engineering practice on modelling squat aesthetics on a sprue.
I think Squats are too big for GW not to commit the resources for a full release, to be honest. Kill Team as a first appearance seems likely. It's April now and we're less than two months away from the next Kill Team box. I consider it plausible for GW to make the announcement on April 1 for the joke, let it sit for a month so people actually grow doubts, and then have the Squat models announced and shown at Warhammer Fest with the pre-order of the Kill Team box only a week or two later. Add a mention of the commitment to a full 40k range later in the year to complete the experience.
If Squats got a Kill Team and GW waited on feedback for a 40k release, that release would be at least 18 months away. That's a long time to lose any momentum from the sudden and unexpected return of Squats. I like to think they'd rather give people the opportunity to buy while the idea is novel. Unlike Sisters which had an existing fanbase, Squats won't have many holdouts left to throw money at GW, so they have to consider whatever money is to be made from a Squat release will overwhelmingly come from customers new to the army.
Unless it has been written into the canon further?
They added a new foreword to the original Ian Watson Inquisitor novel. Basically it said that the events of the novel were impossible to corroborate and gave various reasons, such as in passing mentioning how the Squats' homeworlds had been consumed by the Tyranids.
"Ian Watson mentioned it in his author's introduction, but he was mistaken and it was changed in the next edition." - Andy Hoare
"The thing about them being killed off by Tyranids is a mix of fanon, Chinese Whispers and Games Day banter, it was never actually written anywhere." - Andy Hoare
I think some Tyranid codices have also corroborated the invasion of the core worlds though, no mention of Squats, just the 'miners of Golgotha' or something like that.
Honestly "tyranids ate them all" is as good an excuse for why a faction vanished so suddenly. It's not like Eldar Exodites where GW just doesn't make anything for them, but has kept them in the lore and references and such. Squats just straight up vanished overnight kinda.
The other good excuses would be "the Warp ate them" and "The Imperium wiped them out"
Overread wrote: Honestly "tyranids ate them all" is as good an excuse for why a faction vanished so suddenly. It's not like Eldar Exodites where GW just doesn't make anything for them, but has kept them in the lore and references and such. Squats just straight up vanished overnight kinda.
The other good excuses would be "the Warp ate them" and "The Imperium wiped them out"
THe race went on a drunken bender, hopped in their ships and competed in the 41st millenniums version of the Iditarod . The race is now over and it’s time to go back and earn a living in the coal mines going down down down . In a bit of irony, their digestive system finds Tyranids to be a delicacy , so they will be boarding space hulks to try and scrounge up some morsels off the post race bash.
Heh. Really not how I imagined them to look, but also really liking it. Kinda nice that there's a range of rather hard sci-fi looking factions between GSC, Orlocks and now these buddies in the setting
Dudeface wrote: Well after the overly aggressive responses from some people, hopefully we can, yet again, trust in the massive leak with 100% accuracy?
Who'da thought that the one part of that leak that made people go "Ok, yeah, but surely that part can't be true!" turns out to be 100% accurate as well.
Yes, they’re really real. In an April Fools double-bluff that had Tzeentch himself scratching his feathered head, Humanity’s long-lost cousins actually are making their return to the 41st Millennium as a full Warhammer 40,000 faction.
Not even just for Kill Team. What a world we live in. Squats were dead even when I got into the game in the late 90s, to see them coming back is just mad. Even better, it looks like they're ditching the daft 'Squats' name and just having it as an in universe name that some people in the Imperium call them. Knew that GW wouldn't be stupid enough to wind people up about this, even on April Fool's Day.
Guess this almost 100% confirms that we're going to be getting World Eaters at some point as well. It's interesting that 40k is getting so many more factions these days (Genestealer Cults, Knights, Full on Legion armies, now this), back in the day when there was nothing from the Tau ('01) for years it was usually blamed on shop space. I wonder if increasing online sales are allowing them to create more factions, ignoring the game balancing issues of it.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I'm....surprised this is real. Also surprised they are (re)introducing a new faction when there are so many decades old models that need a refresh.
Great news for everyone who wants Squats though.
There's not that many decades plural old models out there, catachans, some aspect warriors, zerkers, core cadians maybe?
I'm really not sure what to think of the new design. It comes across as quite generic sci-fi and compared to Grendleson it just seems lacking? The Necromunda miniature still had elements of the original designs and influences from fantasy Dwarves, which I thought was great.
Very happy to see they're coming back.
Space Dwarves are a near auto-buy from me, but I still need to see how the whole army looks before I buy. One preview model is not enough.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Very happy to see they're coming back.
Space Dwarves are a near auto-buy from me, but I still need to see how the whole army looks before I buy. One preview model is not enough.
From Bob over at War of Sigmar when the leak list first dropped, we can expect at least a Thudd Gun too.
You know I bought three boxes of Van Saar just because I liked their aesthetics. I think I'm voluntarily going to buy some space dwarves. What's the non-emergency help line...
Damnit GW, how am I supposed to concentrate on stuff I already have now? First HH 2nd and now Squats coming back? Oh and this totally confirms beyond a doubt the big leak, so World Eaters as well?
Damnit GW....
But really, this is so cool. Love the look of this guy, hyped to see the rest of the range. Cant quite believe that I can say with confidence, by the end of the year Squats vs GSC games will a thing.
Chairman Aeon wrote: You know I bought three boxes of Van Saar just because I liked their aesthetics. I think I'm voluntarily going to buy some space dwarves. What's the non-emergency help line...
"Hi my name is Toofast and I buy way too much plastic crack"
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: ...on the other hand, doesn't the guy in the video kind of look like this type of boot would fit him?
I think that leg looks more robotic than Squat but I can be wrong.
Looks like I was wrong indeed.
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Shadow Walker wrote: I bet it is both true and false. True, because there will be Squats but false, because there will be no wh40k army of them. Probably some boardgame or Kill-team at best.
Looking at them more, i'm actually really quite disapointed with that aesthetic. Squats with higher level of tech than the Imperium is a great idea, but they just seem so bland and like they could fit in several other sci-fi settings very easily. Grendlesons design has the padded underarmour and Dwarven Iconography all over which gives a bit more life to his design, and even the Kharadron Overlords have more of a Space Dwarf Aesthetic.
I get the impression that the main body for this is going to severely limited beard possibilities too as there isn't room for them to stick out at the front.
To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." -
Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
The armour looks very 'Gears of War'. Maybe just because the GoW musclemen are pretty squat-esque in proportion anyway, being wider than they are tall!
Rinkydink wrote: To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." -
Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
It's a little worrying because there was a rumour of "Squats returning with Men of Iron" - which out of all the Age of Strife Technology may perhaps be some of the most "Infamous" and "Heretical". I don't want to see Men of Iron turned into another part of the setting that's at the forefront as a pretty normal thing for a faction, UR-025 isn't too bad because he's a one-off and disguised, but to have them re-appear and be just "there" again would take away some of that mystery and importance to their backstory.
I for one am stoked, and loving the new ascetic and hint at more advanced tech. About time we got some "good guys" that weren't up their own butts with Catholic Imperium guilt. A complete new faction? Jumping for joy, and already negotiating with the wife (who is currently rolling her eyes )
Gimgamgoo wrote: In other news... GW finally discovers the secret to milking nostalgic whales.
I don’t feel like that’s a particularly new discovery of theirs.
I currently have a Black Templars army just because of the army box that was released with the artwork from the cover of the old rulebook on the front of the box and special edition codex. GW knows what they're doing by hooking people with nostalgia.
I know it's only one model, but i'm sitting in the thoroughly underwhelmed category. It's not a particularly interesting model. The Necromundan squats are a much better interpretation.
So what are we thinking? I'm thinking - A bit weaker than Tau shooting with Ork-level close combat, really slow delivery and powerful armored vehicles.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I know it's only one model, but i'm sitting in the thoroughly underwhelmed category. It's not a particularly interesting model. The Necromundan squats are a much better interpretation.
If these were more like the Necromunda miniature that would have been awesome, it's a shame if quite generic sci-fi is what they went for instead.
Dunno. GSC is kinda sitting on the mining/tunneling theme (not that Genestealer Cults would have to be from mining-operations). Maybe GW doesn't care and just doubles up on it?
I really disagree with those who prefer the Necromunda squat design over this. This is actually an interesting looking redesign, instead of just a kitbash of fantasy dwarves with the IG.
Now, I've never been a huge fan of GWs dwarf anatomy, and whilst these look much better than some of the older Fantasy dwarf models, they still look a tad awkward. The arms look too massive. Also, the flimsy looking ankles is a weird choice, it emphasises the top heaviness of the model. I hope it is just a feature of this particular squat, and the others wear big sturdy boots.
In any case, definitely a welcome addition that broadens the 40K universe.
Too bad they don't feel like Squats to me. Unless the Bikers and hearthguard look great I'm not too terribly interested in these. It could just be the paintjob but ill hold off judgement till i see bare plastic. I was really hoping that they would retain more of the old-school esthetic (like Grendl & Ragnir). These rotundus feel less Squatty & more Tau-y which does not bode well if I'm gonna pick up new models for my favorite army.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I know it's only one model, but i'm sitting in the thoroughly underwhelmed category. It's not a particularly interesting model. The Necromundan squats are a much better interpretation.
If these were more like the Necromunda miniature that would have been awesome, it's a shame if quite generic sci-fi is what they went for instead.
I am just going to wish all the dwarf lovers congratulations with Squats coming back. Not my cup of tea(I am an elf lover), but happy that others are getting something they will enjoy for years to come.
At this point the only clock left on the GW wall is the plastic Thunderhawk one.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: ...it kinda looks like a StarCraft Marine, just squatter and less armoured.
Kinda. Must be the shoulder pads . But I think we should all wait a little before casting a judgment on the army's aesthetic. After all, we literally only saw one model of it.
40k has so many factions some people might think another will inevitably step on the toes of other factions.
Do they?
I mean, if they end up being slightly shorter Marines, they'll probably sell like hot cakes. That design space keeps adding more and more and more and more armies from Grey Knights to Custodes to Chaos-spin-offs to up-buffed Sisters Paragons and still FW is churning out 10.000% more Marines-stuff than .. dunno ... Eldar or Orks stuff to capture the unsatisfied excess demand. Seems there is lots of room to expand that direction.
I believe I said earlier in the thread HOLYTUTTIFRUTTIDINGDONGSITSREAL.
I did have hope that it was a delicious little double bluff. I'm interested to see what the other models are. I want proper dwarves you know? This looks good and all but I wantses more!
I honestly like the aesthetic. It’s very “what if human, but somehow not superstitious idiot” - using the GW style lexicon.
I am, however, slightly miffed that they seem to have ripped off my Dwarf BB team’s kit colours.
Oh well, win some, lose some.
Eldarsif wrote: I am just going to wish all the dwarf lovers congratulations with Squats coming back. Not my cup of tea(I am an elf lover), but happy that others are getting something they will enjoy for years to come.
At this point the only clock left on the GW wall is the plastic Thunderhawk one.
Plastic Thunderhawk already happened, it was for Aeronautica.
Mr_Rose wrote: I honestly like the aesthetic. It’s very “what if human, but somehow not superstitious idiot” - using the GW style lexicon.
I am, however, slightly miffed that they seem to have ripped off my Dwarf BB team’s kit colours.
Oh well, win some, lose some.
Yes, I don't have a mega problem with them, I like how they look. But I do hope there are some which are more classic Dwarfy.
Crimson wrote: I really disagree with those who prefer the Necromunda squat design over this. This is actually an interesting looking redesign, instead of just a kitbash of fantasy dwarves with the IG.
Now, I've never been a huge fan of GWs dwarf anatomy, and whilst these look much better than some of the older Fantasy dwarf models, they still look a tad awkward. The arms look too massive. Also, the flimsy looking ankles is a weird choice, it emphasises the top heaviness of the model. I hope it is just a feature of this particular squat, and the others wear big sturdy boots.
In any case, definitely a welcome addition that broadens the 40K universe.
I don't think those are ankles. They look like they have cybernetic feet to me. Like, amputees.
Eldarsif wrote: I am just going to wish all the dwarf lovers congratulations with Squats coming back. Not my cup of tea(I am an elf lover), but happy that others are getting something they will enjoy for years to come.
At this point the only clock left on the GW wall is the plastic Thunderhawk one.
Plastic Thunderhawk already happened, it was for Aeronautica.
We are officially out of clocks.
\eyes berserker clock, sonic weapons clock, Exodite clock, Enslaver clock, Hyper-violent Barghessi clock, Blood Pact clock...
Nah. We've got clocks for days yet.
I've been pretty negative on GW lately especially withthe CSM codex leaks, but bringing back Squats makes me as excited as I was when I first started on the eve of 3rd edition.
Maybe fear of not doing them justice. If the Squats will be saddled with awful looking vehicles like the Primaris line then it will quickly turn into a dumpster fire.
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Sunny Side Up wrote: Dunno. GSC is kinda sitting on the mining/tunneling theme (not that Genestealer Cults would have to be from mining-operations). Maybe GW doesn't care and just doubles up on it?
Maybe the new Squats will have a grudge with the GSC this time instead of greenskins because the Stealerspawn nicked their suits.
Slow, but relentless. Really heavy armour, slow speed, few transport options and few long range weapons, but a lot of good medium to closer range weapons.
So no a close combat army, and not a pure gun-line army.
Granted historically they had a lot of vehicles and such so were pretty much a heavy gunline mechanised army.
tauist wrote: That was a great April Fools They had me
Seriously though, 2022 is turning out to be a MAD year for us Rogue Trader fans. Corsairs, Beakies, and now these little guys.. Best GW year ever
Combine that with Sisters of Battle, and I agree (I know they were late 2019 or just all of 2020, but they have only now enjoyed a decent notion of availability without selling out instantly. I view anything during the pandemic as just a verrryyyyy long year up til this point).
I still want those corsair wings back though, that Forgeworld had. They complete the look...
Overread wrote: Perhaps they'll be a bit like Ossiarchs from AoS
Slow, but relentless. Really heavy armour, slow speed, few transport options and few long range weapons, but a lot of good medium to closer range weapons.
So no a close combat army, and not a pure gun-line army.
Granted historically they had a lot of vehicles and such so were pretty much a heavy gunline mechanised army.
I seem to remember lots and lots of artillery backed up by infantry and the bikes right? I guess fairly limited fast attack with strong infantry.
I wonder if they will make it the Demiurg are in fact a space faring 'League' or whatever they're going with. Maybe with a totally different playstyle.. That could be interesting.
Gimgamgoo wrote: In other news... GW finally discovers the secret to milking nostalgic whales.
Not much of a secret or revelation that they can take credit for when the whales have literally been screaming at them like a constant howl for decades on how to take their money.
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Rinkydink wrote: To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
Hopefully this means squats on hover boards... YEEEEHAWWWWW! (or to use the Rogue Trader nomenclature: "Power-boards")
Spoiler:
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Interestingly, I’m seeing design commonalities with these guys and Van Saar.
That's actually a good thing for GW maintaining fluff consistency. The Van Saar have access to some very stable STC archaeotech, kept in secret. But they age fast because there is a containment breach and they dont know radiation poisoning is a thing.
So squats retaining a lot of tech from before the age of strife and similarities to the van saar makes a lot of sense.
It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
I suspect the Super Heavies as they were won’t. At least….not directly.
See, Epic didn’t have the same limitations at the time as 40K. A bloody massive in-universe vehicle was still pretty dinky as a model. That I believe was part of the problem for Squats as they were.
Nowadays? Well, we can probably expect some sort of Super Heavy at some point, but the ones you specifically mentioned still seem ambitious.
But….to see them scaled down? That’s entirely possible with modern tech not to mention GW’s coffers.
Will we see them? Buggered if I know. Time will tell.
Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
Some seem to have been reimagined already- the land train is now the cargo 8 for necromunda, and the Iron Eagle gyro was requisitioned by the Space Marines to make the Storm Talon.
If the Hearthguard, Thudds & Bikes look Squatty I guess that's the direction I'll go. I didn't have any Troopers BITD cuz bikes & trikes are where my love lays down.
But the new Trooper just doesn't hit the same as when I saw & then held Grendl in my grubby mitts. I think I'll continue to use Khardrons for my infantry(was already working on HS gunners using Thunderers w kitbashed 40k weapons).
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Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
A 40k scale overlord would be sooooooo dope. I love my LEAD Zeppelin and wouldn't mind a plastic 28mm scale one...
Racerguy180 wrote: But the new Trooper just doesn't hit the same as when I saw & then held Grendl in my grubby mitts. I think I'll continue to use Khardrons for my infantry(was already working on HS gunners using Thunderers w kitbashed 40k weapons).
It's really a shame considering how great Grendleson was, that design was really what i was hoping for with them. If this had the Gambeson and some Dwarf-themed Emblessishments then I think that would have made it far better.
Maybe fear of not doing them justice. If the Squats will be saddled with awful looking vehicles like the Primaris line then it will quickly turn into a dumpster fire.
Luckily they aren't worth taking right now anyway. I don't hate them but why do they all have to hover?
Well if the new GW aesthetic doesn’t float your boat then there are several full sets of printable squat forces from very close to the original quilted armour dudes to different variations of the tiny egg-shaped duders. And guaranteed it will be cheaper to buy a printer and all the required gubbins alongside the files than it will be to buy the plastics from GW.
It’s really nice to see them coming back though. No more counts as required.
Great... More Humans. And yet another faction to add mountains of rules I will never even crack the book of and to extend the rotation and development times of more interesting content.
I guess that does it for me.
Battle Droid army it is.
Very cool of them... If that's all the originality they've got for their look, I have feeling we'll see a few rounds of redesign, a la Stormcast Eternals (who weren't too plain, but rather too derpy).
Overread wrote: Perhaps they'll be a bit like Ossiarchs from AoS
Slow, but relentless. Really heavy armour, slow speed, few transport options and few long range weapons, but a lot of good medium to closer range weapons.
So no a close combat army, and not a pure gun-line army.
Granted historically they had a lot of vehicles and such so were pretty much a heavy gunline mechanised army.
You are confusing Epic with 40K. In 40K they had access to vintage Imperial vehicles and their trademark bikes/trikes. Apart from that there were zero signature vehicles. Heck, they didn´t even had a dreadnought like anybody else.
I have one massive concern regarding this: do we now need to stop referring units and factions that are being removed from the game as being 'squatted'?
Crimson wrote: I have one massive concern regarding this: do we now need to stop referring units and factions that are being removed from the game as being 'squatted'?
We can't even say they got Corsair'd
I guess we gotta settle for Bretonnia'd or Tomb King'd
Racerguy180 wrote: If the Hearthguard, Thudds & Bikes look Squatty I guess that's the direction I'll go. I didn't have any Troopers BITD cuz bikes & trikes are where my love lays down.
But the new Trooper just doesn't hit the same as when I saw & then held Grendl in my grubby mitts. I think I'll continue to use Khardrons for my infantry(was already working on HS gunners using Thunderers w kitbashed 40k weapons).
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Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
A 40k scale overlord would be sooooooo dope. I love my LEAD Zeppelin and wouldn't mind a plastic 28mm scale one...
I don´t think they will give them bikes this time as they used to ridicule those models back in the day being stunty macho bikers.
Crimson wrote: I have one massive concern regarding this: do we now need to stop referring units and factions that are being removed from the game as being 'squatted'?
Nope. They're getting a name change, so 'Squatted' stays. Anything else that comes back gets 'Votanned'
Crimson wrote: I have one massive concern regarding this: do we now need to stop referring units and factions that are being removed from the game as being 'squatted'?
We can't even say they got Corsair'd
I guess we gotta settle for Bretonnia'd or Tomb King'd
Racerguy180 wrote: If the Hearthguard, Thudds & Bikes look Squatty I guess that's the direction I'll go. I didn't have any Troopers BITD cuz bikes & trikes are where my love lays down.
But the new Trooper just doesn't hit the same as when I saw & then held Grendl in my grubby mitts. I think I'll continue to use Khardrons for my infantry(was already working on HS gunners using Thunderers w kitbashed 40k weapons).
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Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
A 40k scale overlord would be sooooooo dope. I love my LEAD Zeppelin and wouldn't mind a plastic 28mm scale one...
I don´t think they will give them bikes this time as they used to ridicule those models back in the day being stunty macho bikers.
Bikes and trikes along the lines of the Atalan prospector types would work, though I also wouldn't be surprised to see more nods to Van Saar tech and have smaller skimmer bikes.
Basic trooper also shares quite a bit of a silhouette with a little Kastalan robot
I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
Eldarsif wrote: I am just going to wish all the dwarf lovers congratulations with Squats coming back. Not my cup of tea(I am an elf lover), but happy that others are getting something they will enjoy for years to come.
At this point the only clock left on the GW wall is the plastic Thunderhawk one.
Plastic Thunderhawk already happened, it was for Aeronautica.
We are officially out of clocks.
\eyes berserker clock, sonic weapons clock, Exodite clock, Enslaver clock, Hyper-violent Barghessi clock, Blood Pact clock...
Nah. We've got clocks for days yet.
Bloodpact had a model as a dark vengeance cultist leader
Racerguy180 wrote: If the Hearthguard, Thudds & Bikes look Squatty I guess that's the direction I'll go. I didn't have any Troopers BITD cuz bikes & trikes are where my love lays down.
But the new Trooper just doesn't hit the same as when I saw & then held Grendl in my grubby mitts. I think I'll continue to use Khardrons for my infantry(was already working on HS gunners using Thunderers w kitbashed 40k weapons).
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Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
A 40k scale overlord would be sooooooo dope. I love my LEAD Zeppelin and wouldn't mind a plastic 28mm scale one...
I don´t think they will give them bikes this time as they used to ridicule those models back in the day being stunty macho bikers.
I'm down with them ditching the biker gang look(as much as mine were totally Hells Angels), but since they're slow moving, having Rotundus portable rapid wheeled movement makes sense.
DeathKorp_Rider wrote: I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
They got a box of Veterans and an upgrade sprue for Cadians fairly recently...
I love it too. 40K has way too many factions running around in power armour. Nice to get a breath of fresh air once in a while.
Yeah, ngl, this is actually pretty cool, for diversity's sake.
Space Dwarves may not seem all that different from regular humans, but it looks like these guys are going to have a tech-level that's somewhere between Imperium and Tau, which will be a unique-enough spot to stick them. It also doesn't really sound like they'll be an 'Imperium' faction, but something else? Not quite Xenos... but this COULD open up ally options for other Xenos that don't otherwise have allies, like Orks and Tau.
Danny76 wrote: All these pages since the reveal but no discussion on the other models silhouettes yet?
I thought there’d be much talk about what each could be..
I mean, most of them look just like regular Infantry, tbh.
drbored wrote: It also doesn't really sound like they'll be an 'Imperium' faction, but something else? Not quite Xenos... but this COULD open up ally options for other Xenos that don't otherwise have allies, like Orks and Tau.
i think thats just GW both setting the groundwork for squats vs imperial factions (becuase everyone needs to be able to fight everyone), and explaining why we havent seen much of them in recent lore: they have "always" existed, but tend to hang to themselves in thier core worlds area and only interact with the wider imperium at arms length. My read is they are like the Admech or the Knight worlds: technically under imperial authority, but a sovereign entity within the wider imperium with its own rights and privilages, mostly self governing, and too difficult to "break" to be worth the effort while bigger problems exist.
Nice, and even 3rd party like I was hoping
I do agree that armor is kind of generic. Hopefully these are just shock troops and the line grunts are more in the necromundan style squats.
I don't think those are ankles. They look like they have cybernetic feet to me. Like, amputees.
Sure, I know that. But that they're robo-ankles doesn't really matter for the point I was making.
This gonna be their grimdark body horror shtick, they all pragmatically chop off their short little legs and use prosthetics so they can walk faster. Awkward that AdMech already have the exact same shtick.
So far I like Mantic's design better even if they're a bit flanderized with metal beards on tanks and so on.
Have to say I'm delighted! Not what I was expecting but I love the hi-tech look. There are definite design references to Kharadrons, wondering what their helmets will look like- hoping for some sort of stylised ancestor face mask.
Sounds like there's an army box coming first- probably in the summer I'm guessing? With a full release 2 months later? I'm also really looking forward to the articles describing there background, seeing more art and more models as well as the fluff. Love what I've read so far- not an imperium force.
Totally excited for their release and can't wait to start painting and building. Better get on with my Nids in the meantime..
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Danny76 wrote: Regular infantry sure maybe.
But pick axe? Other weapons?. Shoulder Mount thing? Other fun?
One of them has a heavy/special weapon by the looks of it. Look like the basic combat unit built with close assault or ranged and a sarge type character.
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ProfSrlojohn wrote: Nice, and even 3rd party like I was hoping
I do agree that armor is kind of generic. Hopefully these are just shock troops and the line grunts are more in the necromundan style squats.
He's described as a basic trooper so I doubt it. I looked at the Kharadrons and the dwarf-ness comes from an ancestor face on a buckle and the helmet [which we haven't seen for these guys]. I'd like a bit more dwarf vibe too but thats probably for more elite type troops and characters.
The Necromunda squats look to be using more imperium -type gear, personally I like the distinction but I appreciate some may not.
Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
Epics scale was wildly inconsistent anyway so scaling them down for the 40k table wouldn't be a problem. Heck GW could always say that the bigger Epic versions still exist but they are off camera like Titans used to be.
I'd love a reimagined Land Train as there big kit. Make the engine Repulsor sized. Then have separate towable carriages about the size of a Impulsor that can be built with different roles like infantry transport, artillery, anti tank ect. Maybe even have the carriages detachable in game to act as fortifications.
Wait... is GW implying that calling them Squats is... not nice? Hmmm. Cool new name though. Not sure how I feel about them calling each other kin without a really 'eavy 'eavy acksent, tho aye? Tha nae be a wight willy waught fer me.
Rinkydink wrote: To quote the article "Although their civilisation shares common roots with Humanity, the Leagues of Votann have an uneasy relationship with the Imperium of Man. Unlike their superstitious Human cousins, the Leagues emerged from the Age of Strife with far more of their ancient technology intact, including some infamous advances the Imperium would consider extremely heretical." Does this mean AI robots etc? I imagine that's the way these may differentiate from Guard etc.
Hopefully this means squats on hover boards... YEEEEHAWWWWW! (or to use the Rogue Trader nomenclature: "Power-boards")
Spoiler:
And while they were a wargear equipment option, there was never any model citadel made that had a power-board, sadly. If you see one, its because it was scratch built. But then again, what wasnt back in 1988?
So, on the Lore front; one of the things that always stuck out to me was their use of warp power. Specifically they had energy generators that directly tapped the warp via. a tiny rift in order to generate power.
I can’t help but wonder if GW will develop that tidbit further because it puts the short guys firmly in the same weight class as the Eldar and Necrons technologically speaking.
Dr. Mills wrote: If they bring back the bikes and sidecar bikes I will laugh my tits off.
And a land train, and the infamous mole, the feth huge cannons, helicopters, massed ranks of thudd guns...
Oh be still my heart!
If they're going for a higher-tech/DAoT theme for them, then I think the Van Saar stuff might be along the same sort of lines as what they go for with them - so unfortunately I can't see them having wheeled/tracked vehicles but rather everything hovering instead...
DeathKorp_Rider wrote: I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
Thing is if they update everything then there's no new releases. There's always going to be a pile of unupdated stuff for quite a long time.
What I’m thinking they will be like.
They will be what the Imperium would have been technologically without the fear of tech.
Focus on Electronic Warfare to control the battlefield and make it harder to be hit as they move across the board.
I saw GSC, but then again they are probably miners...?
I also saw the Terran Marines, just get a little plastic bubble faceplate.
I thought I saw Tau tech in the rifle and originally, I thought they might be the cause of the Tau advancing in technology so fast. (past Demiurg implications)
We do see picks in the silhouettes, and I thought, shoulder mounted weapons on at least 2 different ones.
I hope they move beyond generic looking sci-fi equipment and armor. Possibly the ones we see are bland because they are the low ranking? Maybe the higher ranking Characters will be more like the Kharadron Overlord with ornate stuff?
As for the old Epic stuff, they were a real mixed bag of things that didn't really fit together that well and were weighted more towards the superheavy end of things.
The Land Train for example, in Epic, was a tank-like front engine, pulling a series of battle cars. One was a transport car with like a battlecannon. One was a flame thrower so a bit like an inferno cannon. One was a one use rad bomb/missile. The problem with the Epic design was, you could completely immobilize the entire Train by destroying the front engine. Although it had IIRC a void shield or two, it still fell pretty easily to concentrated fire.
The Goliath Mega Battery was a massive fixed artillery piece. However its ranges would be overkill for a 40K battlefield, and it was vulnerable at close ranges or in close combat.
The Overlord Armored Gunship was basically an armored flying blimp. Stats were...ok but nothing to write home about.
There was the Squat Cyclops superheavy with its massive Hellfury cannon, however that is more suited to be anti-superheavy and anti-Titan.
DeathKorp_Rider wrote: I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
Thing is if they update everything then there's no new releases. There's always going to be a pile of unupdated stuff for quite a long time.
There's a middle ground between "updating every kit every year" and "oh, your kit is almost old enough to drink? Cool, have an upgrade sprue. That'll be an extra $9."
DeathKorp_Rider wrote: I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
Thing is if they update everything then there's no new releases. There's always going to be a pile of unupdated stuff for quite a long time.
There's a middle ground between "updating every kit every year" and "oh, your kit is almost old enough to drink? Cool, have an upgrade sprue. That'll be an extra $9."
Sure? Except the middle ground is more like the eldar release. Not the weird cadian thing that they really haven't done much with, or even repeated beyond the KT sprue for the definitely-not-that-old CSM.
Bob Lorgar wrote: One day they'll remember the World Eaters exist. One day.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Rumors say you're not in the vanilla book for CSM and are getting a release in the near future, no? And on top of that I believe that rumor is from the same group as these Dwarfs, which I'm told has so far predicted everything going back to the new Orks from last year?
It's funny that some people really prefer the Necromunda "Squats" Ragnir and Grendel to this look. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE those guys. LOVE THEM. I wanted to do a whole Squat gang because of them--and I did. I got the amazing Space Dwarves from Hardcore Minis and fielded Burlok's Brotherhood (go look at Hardcore Minis. They are amazing)
But also, to me, these guys and Ragnir and Grendel all make sense together. Ragnir and Grendel were marooned on Necromunda. Grendel's mercenaries, the Vega Rams, were betrayed and shot up in the Spire and he fled to the Underhive to escape. Ragnir was also forced to work as a Gunsmith in the underhives after he 'retired.' They are Kin of the League of Votann, but refugees in human realms. They can't get League armor, League clothes, League weapons. They can't even get the stuff needed to maintain League tech out here. They are stuck with grubby, shoddy, clearly inferior common-human-stock crap.
It makes total sense for me for the Squats to look one way on human-dominated worlds, where the economy and architecture is entirely Imperial/AdMech driven, and to look another way (a cooler, high-tech way) when they have access to the awesome stuff from their Kin.
In short---embrace it! You have fully equipped members of The Votann League, and you have members of the squat diaspora. They both fit the universe!
Based on what we know of why Squats were originally Squatted*, I expect GW to stay away from the original Squat theme and aesthetic.
*Basically GW's creative team had no idea what to do with original Squats, and grew to hate the biker theme because they felt it was a joke faction and a disservice to the Dwarf archetype.
And I said incorporate, not just make them look like old Squats. Find a way to include some of the old with the new, much like how Genestealer Cults weren't completely redesigned, but kept their bulky mining suit aesthetic.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe they'll find a way to incorporate the old aesthetic with the new.
firmlog wrote: Oh and AT-43 Karmans in both armor style and colorings, though many wouldn't likely have the history for that.
Oh yeah, now that you mention it. I can see that.
Definitely, got design similarities. But its not to surprising when Rackham went under brought on some of their sculptors; as I recall they were initially working on AOS.
Dude is just really wide and hunchbacked. Like, he looks like a terminator with shorter legs. And 40k didn't need terminators with even worse proportions.
I'm wondering what's with the legs. The feet are in the shape of bare feet with toes, but metallic so I'm guessing cyberlegs? I hope they're not all amputees like Skitarii.
Iracundus wrote: The return of the Squats/Leagues of Votann (Votannites?) also shows that the Imperial way is not the only way for survival for humanity.
Well, if you're HERETICAL enough to count these abhumans as examples of humanity!
Da Butcha wrote: It's funny that some people really prefer the Necromunda "Squats" Ragnir and Grendel to this look. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE those guys. LOVE THEM. I wanted to do a whole Squat gang because of them--and I did. I got the amazing Space Dwarves from Hardcore Minis and fielded Burlok's Brotherhood (go look at Hardcore Minis. They are amazing)
But also, to me, these guys and Ragnir and Grendel all make sense together. Ragnir and Grendel were marooned on Necromunda. Grendel's mercenaries, the Vega Rams, were betrayed and shot up in the Spire and he fled to the Underhive to escape. Ragnir was also forced to work as a Gunsmith in the underhives after he 'retired.' They are Kin of the League of Votann, but refugees in human realms. They can't get League armor, League clothes, League weapons. They can't even get the stuff needed to maintain League tech out here. They are stuck with grubby, shoddy, clearly inferior common-human-stock crap.
It makes total sense for me for the Squats to look one way on human-dominated worlds, where the economy and architecture is entirely Imperial/AdMech driven, and to look another way (a cooler, high-tech way) when they have access to the awesome stuff from their Kin.
In short---embrace it! You have fully equipped members of The Votann League, and you have members of the squat diaspora. They both fit the universe!
Yep, that’s where my head is at.
Also, I’d much rather GW spent their time adding new factions, units, or variations (come on guard regiments!) to the game, rather than rebooting the rules every five minutes.
Glad to see Squats return, not a fan of the new name.
Model looks nice, I do however think they should have chosen a different colour scheme. The white high tech armour is too similar to the Tau modern 'offical' colours scheme.
While I'm at it, here's a link to Jervis Johnson's 2004 post on the Specialist Games' Epic: Armageddon forum explaining just why GW 'squatted' the Squats.
I imagine the necromunda style represents squats as imperial auxiliary and these models represent squat as they normally go to battle. Would be cool to get the former as a kit
GaroRobe wrote: I imagine the necromunda style represents squats as imperial auxiliary and these models represent squat as they normally go to battle. Would be cool to get the former as a kit
I think the Necromundan squats represent them as they are on Necromunda – cut off from their people and forced to rely on local resources. Previously it was assumed they were there because their people were wiped out and they simply didn’t have a home to go to or resources to call on. Now we have to re-examine that assumption (why haven’t they gone home if they can? What if they can’t for other reasons than genocide? Do exiles get to keep their fancy armour?) but that doesn’t make their mode of dress any more likely to be stereotypical of the broader population of the Leagues than before.
Gimgamgoo wrote:In other news... GW finally discovers the secret to milking nostalgic whales.
Is there a German word for failing the Thumper maxim?
...for doing the what now?
Rinkydink wrote: It will be interesting to see if any of the old Epic vehicles make it. Goliath Mega Cannon, Land Train, Colossus (All too big surely!?) Iron Eagle Gyro and Overlord etc.
I'd say there's a shot at a re-imagined Iron Eagle as their flyer in 40k. Not sure about SHTs, though.
DeathKorp_Rider wrote: I think this is a bad idea, if only because GW has enough lines they don’t bother updating. When did Emperor’s Children last get something? How often does guard get something?
EC? Every time CSM get a release, currently, until they get splintered off into their own book.
Guard recently got the upgrade sprue for Cadians, and have had a couple of special characters in the last couple of years as well. Looks like there may well be Kasrkin int he offing too, going by that one Rumour Engine picture. Oh, and the DKoK from Kill Team, too.
Bob Lorgar wrote: One day they'll remember the World Eaters exist. One day.
I believe they're included in the same accurate list of rumours as "coming, but I'm not sure of the release order".
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Is 2018 fairly recently to you? Loyalist Space Marines have had 70 relases since then!
Compared to the last release of a 40k Squat model? Yes, yes it is.
And, as noted above, the EC currently get to use any generic CSM stuff too.
GaroRobe wrote: I imagine the necromunda style represents squats as imperial auxiliary and these models represent squat as they normally go to battle. Would be cool to get the former as a kit
I think the Necromundan squats represent them as they are on Necromunda – cut off from their people and forced to rely on local resources. Previously it was assumed they were there because their people were wiped out and they simply didn’t have a home to go to or resources to call on. Now we have to re-examine that assumption (why haven’t they gone home if they can? What if they can’t for other reasons than genocide? Do exiles get to keep their fancy armour?) but that doesn’t make their mode of dress any more likely to be stereotypical of the broader population of the Leagues than before.
Perhaps not every single "Kin" is enlisted in the army?
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Right this is exactly the type of design GW should do more since these minis now transcend the boring grim dark skull spam BS and make these minis useful in most scifi settings and games.
10 out of 10 for me even if his left arm seems a tad out of place and chunky.
Yeah... It looks to me like a 28.5mm base too, but I guess it could be a 25mm one as well, which would make them smaller.
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I found a version where the base is scaled to roughly 25mm. I feel the model would make much more sense in this scale, but the base proportions indicate that this probably is not a 25mm base. Unfortunate. Giant space dwarves are just weird.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
We may have had slightly crossed wires there - I'd read your post as meaning "something more interesting" than Squats, as opposed to what you appear to have meant, which was that you were hoping for a more interesting take on the Squat theme.
The "such as?" question, on my part, was then asking what you'd've wanted to see instead of them.
lord_blackfang wrote: Did you miss the metal feet, he's on stilts. His real feet are at the knee caps. Why does he have knee caps for his feet? Who knows.
The gun confuses me, it feels like it has some shared design elements with imperial weaponry but I can't quite say what. It's a bit bolty, perhaps with hint of something else.
Tastyfish wrote: The gun confuses me, it feels like it has some shared design elements with imperial weaponry but I can't quite say what. It's a bit bolty, perhaps with hint of something else.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
We may have had slightly crossed wires there - I'd read your post as meaning "something more interesting" than Squats, as opposed to what you appear to have meant, which was that you were hoping for a more interesting take on the Squat theme.
The "such as?" question, on my part, was then asking what you'd've wanted to see instead of them.
Standard base size for Cadians is still 25mm, isn't it?
Anyway. I like the aesthetic in a vacuum (as long as there's a helmet too, ha! ha!) but it's not really very space dwarfy. Too tall (but will probably scale fine with the Hardcore Miniatures ones, which are also too tall for my tastes). But I prefer the cheaper and dwarfier ones from Ramshackle, CP Models, and Hasslefree, overall.
I also suspect that GW's take on space dorfs will be less interesting and strategically distinct than F28's take, where it's mostly artillery strikes, tunnels, trenches, bunkers, etc.
Da Butcha wrote: It's funny that some people really prefer the Necromunda "Squats" Ragnir and Grendel to this look. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE those guys. LOVE THEM. I wanted to do a whole Squat gang because of them--and I did. I got the amazing Space Dwarves from Hardcore Minis and fielded Burlok's Brotherhood (go look at Hardcore Minis. They are amazing)
But also, to me, these guys and Ragnir and Grendel all make sense together. Ragnir and Grendel were marooned on Necromunda. Grendel's mercenaries, the Vega Rams, were betrayed and shot up in the Spire and he fled to the Underhive to escape. Ragnir was also forced to work as a Gunsmith in the underhives after he 'retired.' They are Kin of the League of Votann, but refugees in human realms. They can't get League armor, League clothes, League weapons. They can't even get the stuff needed to maintain League tech out here. They are stuck with grubby, shoddy, clearly inferior common-human-stock crap.
It makes total sense for me for the Squats to look one way on human-dominated worlds, where the economy and architecture is entirely Imperial/AdMech driven, and to look another way (a cooler, high-tech way) when they have access to the awesome stuff from their Kin.
In short---embrace it! You have fully equipped members of The Votann League, and you have members of the squat diaspora. They both fit the universe!
To me the issue isn't really that this set of armour is different to Grendleson's armour, but rather the aspects of classic Dwarf theming appears to be lost and replaced with...nothing? If you compare the two miniatures, it appears Grendel is wearing a very similar undersuit (underneath his Gambeson) to this miniature - it looks to have the same knee and elbow padding - and presumably these new ones are a Space-focused society so perhaps they wear void-capable suits all the time, so i'm sure from a lore perspective it fits, but it's that the little details that added life to the Grendleson mini are missing that makes it feel lacking. He had a few small embellishments, like a Dwarf icon on his backpack and weapon, the braided beard, the belt buckle etc that gave a bit of a sense of that Fantasy Dwarf Culture without going too far with it, but this has nothing like that at all. If doesn't even look like they'll be able to have proper beards because of the front of the armour coming up to their chin.
If they had kept the Padded Gambeson (or as a full undersuit) and had a few bits of iconography and extra details i think that would have been great. Grendleson evoked the right feeling to me, but it just feels somewhat bland.
Iracundus wrote: I hope they move beyond generic looking sci-fi equipment and armor. Possibly the ones we see are bland because they are the low ranking? Maybe the higher ranking Characters will be more like the Kharadron Overlord with ornate stuff?
As for the old Epic stuff, they were a real mixed bag of things that didn't really fit together that well and were weighted more towards the superheavy end of things.
The Land Train for example, in Epic, was a tank-like front engine, pulling a series of battle cars. One was a transport car with like a battlecannon. One was a flame thrower so a bit like an inferno cannon. One was a one use rad bomb/missile. The problem with the Epic design was, you could completely immobilize the entire Train by destroying the front engine. Although it had IIRC a void shield or two, it still fell pretty easily to concentrated fire.
The Goliath Mega Battery was a massive fixed artillery piece. However its ranges would be overkill for a 40K battlefield, and it was vulnerable at close ranges or in close combat.
The Overlord Armored Gunship was basically an armored flying blimp. Stats were...ok but nothing to write home about.
There was the Squat Cyclops superheavy with its massive Hellfury cannon, however that is more suited to be anti-superheavy and anti-Titan.
Each wagon of the land train would add a specific amount to the void shield total. So land trains having just two void shields is not correct.
NAVARRO wrote: Its probably 25mm bases so a bit smaller.
If not just cut ankles off and thats it.
GW doesn't really put models on 25mms anymore.
The plastic Death Korp and Neophyte Hybrids are still on 25mm, as were the BSF Traitor Guard and Cultists.
That said I'd still not be surprised if Squats were on at least 32mm. Kharadron basic troops are on 25mm but the basic Fyreslayer is on 32mm, so with the pretty weighty looking armour he's wearing I reckon they'll slide to the bigger base.
Crimson wrote: Yeah... It looks to me like a 28.5mm base too, but I guess it could be a 25mm one as well, which would make them smaller.
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I found a version where the base is scaled to roughly 25mm. I feel the model would make much more sense in this scale, but the base proportions indicate that this probably is not a 25mm base. Unfortunate. Giant space dwarves are just weird.
Yeah, unless GW are making shorter 25mm bases specifically for this release, it's a 28mm.
Crimson wrote: Yeah... It looks to me like a 28.5mm base too, but I guess it could be a 25mm one as well, which would make them smaller.
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I found a version where the base is scaled to roughly 25mm. I feel the model would make much more sense in this scale, but the base proportions indicate that this probably is not a 25mm base. Unfortunate. Giant space dwarves are just weird.
So its a Space Wolf after all in a funny suit doing squats?
My first thought here was that being space dwarfs they'd be comparable in size to sky dwarfs and ground dwarfs. People love those lineups and they're usually the best idea we have until the actual models release, but I suspect GW isn't going to make Squats bigger than their fantasy cousins. So for the time being I'd put one of those in a lineup before fiddling around with the promo picture.
Not that I actually have any of those fantasy models to do that with...
stonehorse wrote: Glad to see Squats return, not a fan of the new name.
We could call them Wee Men of the Allfather instead?
stonehorse wrote: Model looks nice, I do however think they should have chosen a different colour scheme. The white high tech armour is too similar to the Tau modern 'offical' colours scheme.
Agreed. Perhaps they should have leafed through an old dwarf army book for a livery to adapt. The one they chose does absolutely nothing for me, to put it politely.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.
Someone else in the thread also noticed it. But that little ball with the sections cut out toward the back of his gun, it looks a bit Tau. Could they have perhaps merged elements of the Demiurg idea into them? Since they're now space-dwelling and more loosely affiliated with the Imperium, particularly where it comes to techno-heresy. Maybe they have some trade or even serve as occasional mercenaries for the Tau like the Demiurg did.
They certainly cribbed some of the space suit aesthetic from them and are now nomadic space-dwelling people like the Demiurg. Maybe they'll even be retconned to have actually been the Demiurg. In fact, looking at the background for the Demiurg, there is the idea that the Tau got their ion cannon technology from the Demiurg.
To be fair the 19 year old Cadian kits look like Squats next to modern Krieg/GSC/Traitor Guard. A better line-up would probably be next to one of those.
Arbitrator wrote: To be fair the 19 year old Cadian kits look like Squats next to modern Krieg/GSC/Traitor Guard. A better line-up would probably be next to one of those.
The Cadians are broad, but I think they're roughly the same height as the new DKOK.
Arbitrator wrote: To be fair the 19 year old Cadian kits look like Squats next to modern Krieg/GSC/Traitor Guard. A better line-up would probably be next to one of those.
Iracundus wrote: I hope they move beyond generic looking sci-fi equipment and armor. Possibly the ones we see are bland because they are the low ranking? Maybe the higher ranking Characters will be more like the Kharadron Overlord with ornate stuff?
As for the old Epic stuff, they were a real mixed bag of things that didn't really fit together that well and were weighted more towards the superheavy end of things.
The Land Train for example, in Epic, was a tank-like front engine, pulling a series of battle cars. One was a transport car with like a battlecannon. One was a flame thrower so a bit like an inferno cannon. One was a one use rad bomb/missile. The problem with the Epic design was, you could completely immobilize the entire Train by destroying the front engine. Although it had IIRC a void shield or two, it still fell pretty easily to concentrated fire.
The Goliath Mega Battery was a massive fixed artillery piece. However its ranges would be overkill for a 40K battlefield, and it was vulnerable at close ranges or in close combat.
The Overlord Armored Gunship was basically an armored flying blimp. Stats were...ok but nothing to write home about.
There was the Squat Cyclops superheavy with its massive Hellfury cannon, however that is more suited to be anti-superheavy and anti-Titan.
Each wagon of the land train would add a specific amount to the void shield total. So land trains having just two void shields is not correct.
A few extra void shields did not make much difference as massed firepower easily peeled away shields. The Land Train was a slow and big target, with its cars being a hodgepodge of various abilities that did not really mesh together that well. As it was not a Titan, it did not have a template, meaning one failed save to the Engine was enough to immobilize the whole train and also collapse the remaining void shields. Then the remaining cars were just immobilized vehicles that could be picked off at leisure. A slow big target had to be durable enough, and under the old 2nd edition Epic rules, the Squat Land Train just wasn't nor did it present a huge threat in terms of firepower (at least compared to the hassle and relative fragility). It was this weird gimmick of a string of vehicles forced to travel in a line. It was not treated as a superheavy or Titan and that was the flaw in the rules.
That is what GW needs to correct this time. If they go with slow, then they need to have enough durability to actually survive to get into range or to the objective.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.
Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.
Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.
Wiz Warrior wrote: And while they were a wargear equipment option, there was never any model citadel made that had a power-board, sadly. If you see one, its because it was scratch built. But then again, what wasnt back in 1988?
Yes they did, I have one. They just didn't make it for 40K.
And should the dwarves be Danish. I see a lot of crossovers between these new squats, Van Saar and Tau--and I see that as a good thing.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.
Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.
Less is more, Grendleson looks like a silly Christmas tree. From a design perspective this is miles above and like the first primaris its an open canvas.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.
I'd really like to see the Grendleson look released as a Squat abhumans unit for the Astra Militarum, showing how the Imperium treats it's kin differently to the Leagues. That way we can get both styles in a way that enhances the lore.
While they are at it, some Beastmen abhumans and new plastic Ratlings would be great. The Beastmen could have explosive collars to really fit with the way they are oppressed in Imperial society.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Feels like a missed opportunity to do something more interesting to me.
...such as?
Such as? is such a BS response. It’s like saying, off the top of your head, come up with something better than a team of professional designers, who probably spent months working on this.
All I know it, this looks to me like the laziest, most predictable and boring thing they could have done to reinvent squats. Uninspired sub-Tolkien stereotypes in space.
I hope to be proved wrong when we see the rest of the range, but there’s so many things I would have preferred to have seen instead of space dwarfs.
Indeed! Dwarfs...IN SPACE! So lame! What are they gonna do next? Orks, Elves and Demons too? What kind of tomfoolery this would be!
Orks happen to be my least favourite thing about 40K. Space Elves a close second. At least with Demons and Aeldari, they actually managed to do something interesting. It’s possible to like 40k without having to like everything about it.
Yeah I agree with that but I disagree with your notion that its lame, lazy or non interesting... Doesn't fit your aesthetic preferences which its fine but GW reinvented armour/ look to something new in 40k which in itself shows commitment to design and is an interesting new design direction.
They did the same in Necromunda Van saar which I find refreshing and they did it years ago with Tau... Keep it coming I would say.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great - a modern take on their original design that still evoked that classic feel with the padded gambeson and small Dwarf-themed details. The new version looks like they took away those extra bits and the Dwarf-theming and replaced them with nothing, turning it into a more bland, quite generic sci-fi miniature. If they had kept the padded undersuit and had a few small embellishments then it would have felt less lacking with its theming.
Less is more, Grendleson looks like a silly Christmas tree. From a design perspective this is miles above and like the first primaris its an open canvas.
Swapping the undersuit for a padded version and adding a couple of small Dwarf-like icons on his backpack and beltbuckle wouldn't have made him "look like a silly Christmas tree". At the moment their theming appears to just be "sci-fi".
The Mantic Forge Fathers already did the 'Dwarves in space' concept better than GW ever could. This new model is bland, generic sci-fi and a transparent cash-in on the nostalgia value of Squats.
So it'll sell an absolute ton and get people to gloss over glaring problems with 40k. In other words, it'll be a complete success.
lord_blackfang wrote: Dude is just really wide and hunchbacked. Like, he looks like a terminator with shorter legs. And 40k didn't need terminators with even worse proportions.
"terminator with shorter legs" Dude, they are just going back to RT ideas.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great
No he didn't. He has the embarrassing and uninspired look of mixing IG with fantasy dwarves that got the squats squatted in the first place. I'm really glad that they're bravely reimagining them and giving them a fresh visual identity.
They'd already updated their look with Grendleson, and he looked great
No he didn't. He has the embarrassing and uninspired look of mixing IG with fantasy dwarves that got the squats squatted in the first place. I'm really glad that they're bravely reimagining them and giving them a fresh visual identity.
The fantasy theming wasn't why they got removed in the first place, they got removed because they hadn't done the Dwarf archetype properly and had instead made them too silly with the whole biker theming and such. They weren't sure what to do with them to fix the issue - what they were doing with Epic was said to be more in line with how they should have been.
From Jervis Johnson:
No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what were we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realized what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regretted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.
.....
Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendency to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we should have done with the Squats in 40K.
Their "fresh visual identity" appears to be generic sci-fi without anything to make up for taking away that theming they had.
We are making a lot of assumptions about the visual identity of one model who is like a bog standard troop model and as such will have less bling on his kit as well.
ClockworkZion wrote: We are making a lot of assumptions about the visual identity of one model who is like a bog standard troop model and as such will have less bling on his kit as well.
As is our right as people who comment on forums about little plastic people.
ImAGeek wrote: Grendleson is a Squat living in Imperial society. He probably should look different.
Exactly, Is ike saying the Hive scum should be just like cadians or Goliaths like space marines.
They should look quite different and I rather back new paths into 40k look than rehashing same things over and over again.
The way I see it Kin now is like a parallel technological evolution and not just a imperial variation...
Ornaments like runes, purity seals etc should be in the realms of optional bits not embedded on 28mm minis. Its just an healthier way to promote different looks on the same models. Like I said I welcome open canvas.
Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland. I like the look of the armour and the gun, the beard doesnt belong on top of the armour but beneath the armour its to pressios to get burned or ripped of by an ennemy
skeleton wrote: Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland.
I presume that's different people having different opinions, so pretty normal for any place or group.
For squats, I definitely prefer no-nonsense and practical over lots of bling and doo-dads. That's great for a religious fanatics like Sisters, less so here. 40k has a lot of factions that are over the top in their manias and grand proclamations to their causes. No nonsense, down to earth technologists is an enjoyable contrast.
skeleton wrote: Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland. I like the look of the armour and the gun, the beard doesnt belong on top of the armour but beneath the armour its to pressios to get burned or ripped of by an ennemy
The options aren't "everything" or "nothing". It isn't about ""Why aren't there Runes, long braided beards, Dwarf icons, engravings and lots of ornate decoration all over?", it's that it doesn't have any themed embellishments or details, not even just a small icon engraving on the backpack or belt buckle. Even for a basic troop I'd expect something.
skeleton wrote: Its never good with your guys and damsels, Do they make models with lots of stuff on it, they are called crismast trees. If they dont put a lot of stuff on the model its to bland.
I presume that's different people having different opinions, so pretty normal for any place or group.
For squats, I definitely prefer no-nonsense and practical over lots of bling and doo-dads. That's great for a religious fanatics like Sisters, less so here. 40k has a lot of factions that are over the top in their manias and grand proclamations to their causes. No nonsense, down to earth technologists is an enjoyable contrast.
I agree. I'm working on BTs now and it will be nice to have an army that doesn't have tons of little bits to paint. These guys will look good with a clean paint job and a couple transfers.
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour. Besides, it's not about them not being decorated to the same level you'd expect of Veteran/Elite troops.
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.
I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
Jes Goodwin always states that when they start designing a new range the basic core troops start relatively plain so they can add more details to sergeants, elites and officers so thats probably why this guy is relatively plain. We haven't seen the helmets yet [which are the main thing that give the Kharadrons their unique look, plus there is lots more to come. I would have liked an ancestor rune rune somewhere om a backpack or gun perhaps but that detail might come elsewhere and can be painted on/applied with transfers.
Really looking forward to reading about the design process with them in the future, its a shame Voxcast isn't a thing now, the community articles don't always give the depth I'd like.
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Flinty wrote: There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.
I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.
Indeed... You can easily add ornaments on that primaris but you can't take them off from those Primaris vets.
A "clean" armour will be good for most fans and not just for some.
Flinty wrote: There are 4 decently sized locations for votann specific transfers to go to add ornamentation. Allows for more flexibility than cast in details as well.
I personally prefer the sleeker look that this model embodies, and I’m sure that those who prefer more gubbins will also be catered for.
Indeed... You can easily add ornaments on that primaris but you can't take them off from those Primaris vets.
A "clean" armour will be good for most fans and not just for some.
I have a file.
Not you, GW, or the full might of the United States government can stop me if I want to remove the Imperialis or any other decoration from my Bladeguard.
Looking forward to seeing a lot more of these new Squa... er, Leagues of Votann and hopefully some fun kitbashing opportunities to be had with Arkanauts. (Fingers and toes crossed that they have bubble helmets!)
All that said, given that we've now seen Genestealer Cults, Sisters of Battle and now Squats in plastic (honourable mentions to Corsairs, Kriegers and some of the more exotic Black Fortress models) where do we go from here? Given AoS fun and interesting model and army themes over the past few years and Necromunda's exploration of the Ash Wastes I really see GW as having turned a corner from a creative standpoint, either putting their own twist on well established tropes or branching out with new and interesting characters and monsters that would have been seen as the stuff of myth, legend and derranged ramblings some 15 years ago and this is obviously bleeding over into the more conservative space of WH40K... so much so I'm really starting to think that Kroot and Catachans are inevitable at this point.
I'd love to see Skaven in spaaaace as well, in terms of wishlisting a transition of a fantasy army into 40K... I got into the whole Warhammer thingy around the year 2000 therefore i'm not up to speed with what came about in the decades before, are there any real big thematic races or armies to bring back in a big way left to explore? To the casual observer it looks as though a lot of the fanservice has been realised now?
Even the fabled Beakie Marine is about to get it's moment in the spotlight once more. Fun times for all involved. (Glossing over GW's other well established shithousery ofc)
Well, Hurd remain an option. If my background knowledge isn’t wonky, they are described as infestations. Potentially, making them more widespread is only one Warp Shenanigan away?
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
This looks offensive to me... because of what I anticipate GW will charge for the models. Their price range should be reduced to 30-50% of what a SM model costs to adjust for model height disparity. But I anticipate GW leveraging bespoke language and the lack of self control of the masses to make the pricing stand tall.
Follow-up questions. Will Squats 2.0 create a massive proliferation of tactical rock basing? Will we see cute little tanks, drop pods, dreadnaughts, and othe delightful tiny 40k vehicles and terrain for our new diminutive friends? And finally, will GW create a Christmas/Santa themed promo Squat model?
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I suppose how excited you are by the return of squats, depends on what you thought of squats the first time round.
Unless you're part of the majority of the playerbase that either wasn't born yet the last time squats were actually being produced or had no idea Games Workshop even existed at that point...
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I suppose how excited you are by the return of squats, depends on what you thought of squats the first time round.
Unless you're part of the majority of the playerbase that either wasn't born yet the last time squats were actually being produced or had no idea Games Workshop even existed at that point...
My fear is that they are going to take this in a generic sci-fi direction to appeal to those who want to play a human faction but think the Imperium is too gothic. It's too early to tell just based on one model, but I really hope they don't go that route.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
...you really think a symbol on the belt buckle and backpack would've been too much? For a 40k model?!?!?
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
...you really think a symbol on the belt buckle and backpack would've been too much? For a 40k model?!?!?
Most 40k basic troops don't have ornamentation like that. Besides, from the silhouettes shown it looks like the sergeant will have a kind of sculpted dragon/boar crest. Then there's that big Dwarf face icon in one of the rumour engines which is probably for LoV since it didn't come out with the Fyreslayers.
Jadenim wrote: I’d much rather GW spent their time adding new factions, units, or variations (come on guard regiments!) to the game, rather than rebooting the rules every five minutes.
ho ho, brother! I like what you say and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
It's 2 small pieces of detail in a reasonable place, i'm not talking about elaborate amounts typically seen on characters or veterans, it's this:
Cadian Imperial Guard have the Aquila on their Helmets, chest armour and lasguns, Primaris Intercessors have their chest and bolt rifle Aquila, Genestealer cults carry their insignia, Orks have their Glyphs and various bits of decoration, even Necrons and Tau have the factions logo on them....but you think wanting a small Dwarf-head icon on a backpack and belt buckle (or at least one of the two) to give a bit more character/theming would be too much for a basic trooper?
Flinty wrote: First primaris release was pretty unornamented
Spoiler:
They weren't completely lacking in ornamentation like the Squat appears to be, however. They still had the embellishments on the bolter and chest armour.
They're different than the Imperium proper though and may not value massive amounts of ornamentation.
That said, it's one model and he may the most basic of the entire faction.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
The thing is, Grendl looks like the other Squat Trooper models(albeit much more detailed), so if you ask me, he is the modern interpretation of the classic look. The new dudes just look weird.
I knew GW would screw the pooch when I saw Khardrons and said WTF, AOS gets better Squat models than 40k(which at that time was none)? Then Grendl came out and I thought "damn, they've done 'em right" further reinforced by Ragnir. Then the Squatau were released and hope was dashed. Folly to me for thinking they'd continue with the recent look.
If people like them them, cool. I personally don't and as happy of a day it should've been, it was not.
It was actually kinda funny. About half of my 40k friends texted me saying are you excited and the other half said are you disappointed? Yet all of them understood my concerns/likes. it was same questions with Sororitas, but opposite answer. I love their new minis.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
...you really think a symbol on the belt buckle and backpack would've been too much? For a 40k model?!?!?
He's got a symbol on his shoulder.
Point was that you're comparing a pineapple to a potato.
Close to the level of ornamentation Grendlesen has (minus the Purity Seals and Imperial aspects) would have been enough; their logo cast onto the backpack and belt buckle.
Grendlesen is a character in a skirmish game, not a bog standard line trooper.
...you really think a symbol on the belt buckle and backpack would've been too much? For a 40k model?!?!?
He's got a symbol on his shoulder.
Point was that you're comparing a pineapple to a potato.
I said without the Imperial-themed elements of Grendlesen - the belt buckle and backpack icon are the clearly Squat-themed aspects .The winged Skull on his shoulder is Imperial themed.
Racerguy180 wrote: The thing is, Grendl looks like the other Squat Trooper models(albeit much more detailed), so if you ask me, he is the modern interpretation of the classic look. The new dudes just look weird.
I knew GW would screw the pooch when I saw Khardrons and said WTF, AOS gets better Squat models than 40k(which at that time was none)? Then Grendl came out and I thought "damn, they've done 'em right" further reinforced by Ragnir. Then the Squatau were released and hope was dashed. Folly to me for thinking they'd continue with the recent look.
If people like them them, cool. I personally don't and as happy of a day it should've been, it was not.
It was actually kinda funny. About half of my 40k friends texted me saying are you excited and the other half said are you disappointed? Yet all of them understood my concerns/likes. it was same questions with Sororitas, but opposite answer. I love their new minis.
I just feel like you're comparing unlike things (a guy who in the video was boarding a wrecked ship IN SPACE and was dressed for it vs a guy living in a Hive City) and saying they should be the same. Different situations require different things. Plus you're also also basing your entire reaction to the entire faction on what is probably their most basic troop model.
I think the core is that this new Squat is clearly armed in heavy sci-fi armour as opposed to gothic victorian sci-fi armour - which is a touch closer to what the Khadoran's have.
So yes if you wanted very elaborate and runic style armour the new Squats "MIGHT" not suit, at least based on the one trooper we have as an example.
That said we'll have to wait and see - considering the decades of time that have passed, the new army is going to look very very different to the old no matter what.
It will be interesting to see where GW takes the army
Overread wrote: I think the core is that this new Squat is clearly armed in heavy sci-fi armour as opposed to gothic victorian sci-fi armour - which is a touch closer to what the Khadoran's have.
So yes if you wanted very elaborate and runic style armour the new Squats "MIGHT" not suit, at least based on the one trooper we have as an example.
That said we'll have to wait and see - considering the decades of time that have passed, the new army is going to look very very different to the old no matter what.
It will be interesting to see where GW takes the army
My thought as well. I advise the same thing I usually do: keep expectations low and if you have to be excited, be excited to see more, not for what we're getting *yet*.
If the new Trooper is the new version of exo-armour then they've failed as well.
The Trooper is what you should base the ENTIRE esthetic around, cuz ya know you're gonna have a bunch of them.
If I didn't like the basic Skitarii, Battle Sisters, Marines, Wyches/kabalites I wouldn't own the factions.
As someone who loves Squats, GW is sure doing a great job at making me dislike them. I really, really want to like them, but all i see is Tau, and if there was a faction that should get squatted...it would be the faction released in 2004. Unless the bikes, hearthguard & vehicles look like Squats. I guess I'll just continue kitbashing away.
With Covid delays, the Squats 2.0 release didn't get pushed out in time, so the Darktide computer game release had to keep getting pushed back, as a Squat will be one of the playable characters.
Think about it. Game got pushed to spring of this year for "Covid releasons" and the official announcement of a Sept '22 release date (theoretical Squat codex release date?) Was announced the same week as this.
Racerguy180 wrote: If the new Trooper is the new version of exo-armour then they've failed as well.
The Trooper is what you should base the ENTIRE esthetic around, cuz ya know you're gonna have a bunch of them.
If I didn't like the basic Skitarii, Battle Sisters, Marines, Wyches/kabalites I wouldn't own the factions.
As someone who loves Squats, GW is sure doing a great job at making me dislike them. I really, really want to like them, but all i see is Tau, and if there was a faction that should get squatted...it would be the faction released in 2004. Unless the bikes, hearthguard & vehicles look like Squats. I guess I'll just continue kitbashing away.
Yeah, the Basic trooper should be the normal basic level that showcases the design ethos for the faction overall. So to have one that just comes across as "generic sci-fi" without a distinct theme doesn't give a good impression at all.
Racerguy180 wrote: If the new Trooper is the new version of exo-armour then they've failed as well.
The Trooper is what you should base the ENTIRE esthetic around, cuz ya know you're gonna have a bunch of them.
If I didn't like the basic Skitarii, Battle Sisters, Marines, Wyches/kabalites I wouldn't own the factions.
As someone who loves Squats, GW is sure doing a great job at making me dislike them. I really, really want to like them, but all i see is Tau, and if there was a faction that should get squatted...it would be the faction released in 2004. Unless the bikes, hearthguard & vehicles look like Squats. I guess I'll just continue kitbashing away.
Yeah, the Basic trooper should be the normal basic level that showcases the design ethos for the faction overall.
So to have one that just comes across as "generic sci-fi" without a distinct theme doesn't give a good impression at all.
Yup, if the rest of the minis are as bland as the one previewed, I'm a bit deflated.
These models aren’t going to look like old squats, but you will be able to tell they are squats, the lore released so far is not contrary to any of the old stuff, it’s nods to nostalgia.
They also aren’t going to be fantasy dwarves, even dwarves in fantasy aren’t fantasy dwarves anymore.
I personally hope they don’t do the heavy ornamentation thing, so glad I got the option on marines to not got that route. Less is more sometimes. But tastes vary, but I for one am just happy they are were my main opponent in my early days playing 1st/2nd edition and can’t wait to have them back.
Andykp wrote: These models aren’t going to look like old squats, but you will be able to tell they are squats, the lore released so far is not contrary to any of the old stuff, it’s nods to nostalgia.
They also aren’t going to be fantasy dwarves, even dwarves in fantasy aren’t fantasy dwarves anymore.
I personally hope they don’t do the heavy ornamentation thing, so glad I got the option on marines to not got that route. Less is more sometimes. But tastes vary, but I for one am just happy they are were my main opponent in my early days playing 1st/2nd edition and can’t wait to have them back.
I've not seen anyone here saying they want heavy ornamentation, just something to give them a more noticeable theme and make them less bland. It doesn't have anything at all, not even the same level of ornamentation/detail most other basic troopers get.
Bob Olley had some cracking old school Space dwarfs Scrunts if you fancy... shoot him an email if you are really into that.
Necromunda dwarfs are great for Necromunda but not really for a Kin race lost in the stars with a knack for technological expertise...
I think the zz top shades & beards and comical ideas was fine back in the day.... but its crucial concepts move with time if they aim to reach a wider audience.
Most 40k fans probably did not even seen a squat before on the table or are even aware what they were so yeah decade old concepts are not ideal for the new 40k fans in 2022.
Did not care about space marines but Primaris are actually FUN to paint and convert so I got them... same will be with the Kin if they keep the concepts open.
In a sea of grim dark gothic, skull spam its a breeze of fresh air when you see something like this.
Loads of people including myself always praised the brave take on AoS from the design team. They create new factions from the ground up and they keep the momentum going, so yeah I praise the Kin and the bold take on the kin concept.
Personally I believe this is just a regular troop option and that you will still have the overthetop detailed heavy heroes and specials.
What's the issue? Isn't it a good thing GW isn't cramming dwarf-face runes all over the armor? Or that they're not going the Warcry warband route of having the same icon crammed onto every warrior's belt?
GW has a nasty habit of overdoing that. Just look at space wolves.
Maybe the full kit will have icons on pouches and things to tie them into the faction. I personally prefer adding my own icons, because having icons on already (like GSC models) makes it harder to convert the model into not GSC things.
kodos wrote: there is nothing on the model that tells you that it is a unique faction
you could use the same picture and advertise it as "civilian mining corporation NCP model for Necromunda" and it would still fit
You mean other than the unique silhouette that doesn't match any existing faction, or the equipment that is clearly distinct from other factions?
Neither of which are something that make up for the lack of a clear, distinct design ethos to tie the faction together and give it its own identity.
I mean if your looking for that you need more than a single model to get an idea what cohesive elements tie them together. But to say it doesn't look unique compared to everything else in the game and stand apart with what little we've seen is a stretch.
. In a bit of irony, their digestive system finds Tyranids to be a delicacy 
, so they will be boarding space hulks to try and scrounge up some morsels off the post race bash.
