I wonder if they might do some more "traditional" less armoured squats in the second wave as more of a chaff unit, and I'm sure they'll do a VTOL gyrocopter inspired by Epic. Maybe some more fixed artillery too.
Let’s not start falling out over the size of he models that no one has seen yet. The pic of them with the ORKS makes them look very much like dwarves. Until we have the models to physically see we can’t comment really.
One thing I hope they do soon is a good look at alternate schemes for colours. Show off how they can look.
tneva82 wrote: Well these "squats" don't have much of dwarf to begin with. And plenty of beardless heads. Do better job of being space hobbits
Also look awfully tall. They should be 3 heads shorter than basic primaris marines to be the usual dwarf height of 5 feet but from the size comparisons don't really look like that.
But GW themselves have said that the Kin are 4 feet tall?
tneva82 wrote: Well these "squats" don't have much of dwarf to begin with. And plenty of beardless heads. Do better job of being space hobbits
Also look awfully tall. They should be 3 heads shorter than basic primaris marines to be the usual dwarf height of 5 feet but from the size comparisons don't really look like that.
But GW themselves have said that the Kin are 4 feet tall?
Maybe all that bulky armor makes them look taller? (Watch the Cthonian Beserkers be taller than the armored ones haha)
Looks like the iron kin heads will be on a lot of kits with void armour, I wont be using any myself I don’t think so if anyone uk based wants more I can post them out when the kits start arriving. Just PM me.
Andykp wrote: Looks like the iron kin heads will be on a lot of kits with void armour, I wont be using any myself I don’t think so if anyone uk based wants more I can post them out when the kits start arriving. Just PM me.
What are you basing that on? We've only seen 1 Ironkin head
Andykp wrote: Looks like the iron kin heads will be on a lot of kits with void armour, I wont be using any myself I don’t think so if anyone uk based wants more I can post them out when the kits start arriving. Just PM me.
What are you basing that on? We've only seen 1 Ironkin head
Read the thread. In the latest Warhammer plus bate report there is a thunderkyn with an Iron kin head.
Andykp wrote: Looks like the iron kin heads will be on a lot of kits with void armour, I wont be using any myself I don’t think so if anyone uk based wants more I can post them out when the kits start arriving. Just PM me.
What are you basing that on? We've only seen 1 Ironkin head
Read the thread. In the latest Warhammer plus bate report there is a thunderkyn with an Iron kin head.
Ah, missed that. Nice that they're usable on the lighter void armour too then.
Chikout wrote: Just started watching the lastest battle report and one of the Thunderkyn can be modelled as an Iron kin. I wonder what else will have that option.
Thats very interesting. I wonder if all these kits come with extra bionic parts just so you can build a few Ironkins. I would very much like to have a unit of five and so far looks like 2 extra heads minimum are on those kits.
Chikout wrote: Just started watching the lastest battle report and one of the Thunderkyn can be modelled as an Iron kin. I wonder what else will have that option.
Thats very interesting. I wonder if all these kits come with extra bionic parts just so you can build a few Ironkins. I would very much like to have a unit of five and so far looks like 2 extra heads minimum are on those kits.
I don't get the impression the bionic parts are meant to be specific to the Ironkin, really.
Chikout wrote: Just started watching the lastest battle report and one of the Thunderkyn can be modelled as an Iron kin. I wonder what else will have that option.
Thats very interesting. I wonder if all these kits come with extra bionic parts just so you can build a few Ironkins. I would very much like to have a unit of five and so far looks like 2 extra heads minimum are on those kits.
I don't get the impression the bionic parts are meant to be specific to the Ironkin, really.
Agree, it seems you can use bionic bits with normal kin or make iron kin with normal bits. Bionic arms I legs I will use, iron kin heads not so much. I reckon (pure guess) there will be at least two ironkin heads in the basic troops box and one in the thunderers.
Still don’t properly understand modern 40K, but Squats seem fairly pokey. And I hadn’t previously heard the Thunderers could field Grav weapons. I thought it was just C-Beamers and Heavy Bolter type.
Jidmah wrote: This forum should have a sticky with generic complaints that come up with every single release, just to save space.
Some one complaining that GW models aren't actually scaled the same is definitely one of them.
Except most of the infantry models they make ARE actually in the same scale - Marines are in the same scale as Guardsman, as Orks, as Adpetus Mechanicus and so on, which GW puts a good effort into and is generally consistent about, so they do look as they should when side by side.
I mean if they were not supposed to be the same scale, would GW go through the immense effort of upscaling the ENTIRE Marine range to be visibly taller and bulkier than humans, while simultenously keeping both flavours of new Guardsmen roughly the same height as they were before?
I think you need to learn the difference between exact scale and relative scale.
But you self-owned yourself anyways, that nob should absolutely not be smaller than the primaris marine in almost the same pose, proving that scale is vastly off even for the most recent models.
Jidmah wrote: I think you need to learn the difference between exact scale and relative scale.
But you self-owned yourself anyways, that nob should absolutely not be smaller than the primaris marine in almost the same pose, proving that scale is vastly off even for the most recent models.
Primaris are around 8 fand a half feet tall, Nobs can be 7-8' tall, and as all Orks are horribly hunched over. So taller and bulkier than your average human, but not quite the height of a Primaris is exactly right.
Yes since matines upscale all orks are way to small. The more they fight the bigger they are and they are always fighting. They should be the largest race easily.
Jidmah wrote: I think you need to learn the difference between exact scale and relative scale.
But you self-owned yourself anyways, that nob should absolutely not be smaller than the primaris marine in almost the same pose, proving that scale is vastly off even for the most recent models.
Primaris are around 8 fand a half feet tall, Nobs can be 7-8' tall, and as all Orks are horribly hunched over. So taller and bulkier than your average human, but not quite the height of a Primaris is exactly right.
Wrong. Regular boyz are 7-8' tall, nobz are taller, being at least 8', up to 10' tall according to most sources, some have them even larger. The size chart in 3rd edition's codex has a nob at 8.5 feet despite being hunched over in the typical ork pose. On top of that, this particular sculpt is the most upright standing ork ever made by GW, having a perfectly straight back and is not hunched over at all. Therefore, it should be at least as tall, if not taller than the 8.5' primaris.
As is, the primaris standing a full head taller than the kommadoz nob is just as much out of scale as kin compared to the primaris.
Olthannon wrote: It is a severe pain in the arse that GW are keeping this stuff behind Warhammer+.
I get it, because yeah that's one sure fire way to get some money and subs but even still.
To be fair, whilst the Squat BR are fairly informative, it’s only because the info being revealed is new. The reports themselves, whilst fun, are nothing to write home about.
Orks have always been described as being the same height as a human but hunched over, says it in the 8th editon codex and earliest stuff. It’s the standard description of an ORK. So thing you’re off with the 7-8’ for a boy.
This obsession with everything being huge always baffles me, leave marines at seven foot and ORKS being big hunched over human sized things and it al, works. Chuck in 10’ primarchs and it all gets silly.
Andykp wrote: Orks have always been described as being the same height as a human but hunched over, says it in the 8th editon codex and earliest stuff. It’s the standard description of an ORK. So thing you’re off with the 7-8’ for a boy.
This obsession with everything being huge always baffles me, leave marines at seven foot and ORKS being big hunched over human sized things and it al, works. Chuck in 10’ primarchs and it all gets silly.
I mean, Primarchs used to be the "blueprint" for Marines. Basically they should be Tactical Marines.
Horus AND the Emperor once fought an Ork Boss and barely survived (and couldn't kill the Ork) back in the olden days.
Also Custodes used to be shirtless humans with dome helm.
Scaling up everything and anything to be more .... *cough* ... epic is what sells, I guess.
Andykp wrote: Orks have always been described as being the same height as a human but hunched over, says it in the 8th editon codex and earliest stuff. It’s the standard description of an ORK. So thing you’re off with the 7-8’ for a boy.
This obsession with everything being huge always baffles me, leave marines at seven foot and ORKS being big hunched over human sized things and it al, works. Chuck in 10’ primarchs and it all gets silly.
Same height despite the hunched posture, noting they’d be noticeably taller than a man if they stood up straight.
I doubt they are 4ft tall exactly. And I'm certain the beserks are bigger.
I believe I estimated that Squat at half a head shorter than a Fire Warrior when GW released the picture. That would make them more like five feet tall. It'll be nice to see good size comparisons once people get their hands on the models, be it the free store model or the launch box.
Boosykes wrote: Yes since matines upscale all orks are way to small. The more they fight the bigger they are and they are always fighting. They should be the largest race easily.
Kommandos are sneaky gits that done fight like proper Orks. Their Nob should be puny.
Porportions are very different of a human. If you increased the Votaan to primaris height you would end up with an Ogryn.
Theres many reasons the majority of GW kits have been increasing in scale and not all are related to fluff. I can only remember once the kits reducing in size and that was with the old night goblins.
Olthannon wrote: I guess that if primaris are meant to be 8 and a half foot and the Votann model is about half that, then it's good enough.
I don't know what size they are but they look about the same as the AoS ones.
The issue with Primaris is that the models are scaled to look like a run of the mill seven foot tall Marine next to normal human models. The model tells us they're the size Marines should be like. Conceivably he fluff writers that cooked up the whole Primaris mess went with them being bigger than normal Marines because the new models are bigger than the old models. Which is pretty stupid, but we've had to deal with the Primaris size issue from the beginning.
GW is all about Marines and of course they would compare a new Squat to an Intercessor, but in my opinion we're going to be better off seeing a Squat next to a Guardsman or Genestealer (4th gen) Neophyte to get a real idea of what they look like. I find it a lot more sensible to compare an abhuman to a base human rather than a modified human. Of course GW disagrees...
Sunny Side Up wrote: Horus AND the Emperor once fought an Ork Boss and barely survived (and couldn't kill the Ork) back in the olden days.
That is still accurate today though, as there really is no (known) limit on how much a warboss can grow. I mean, the primary reason for the deathwatch to exist was to cull ork empires before a warboss that level could emerge again.
Ragnar Blackmane himself was willing to sacrifice two whole fleets of space wolves and his own life in order to stop Thrakka from getting any more powerful than he already is and failed to do so - and Thrakka isn't even the ballpark of the ork which gave Horus and the Emperor trouble who is described as being twice the emperor's size. Thrakka is described as being the size of a dread, about as tall as a primarch (which isn't that accurate of a measurement itself).
In later books it was also implied that the Emperor was losing the fight on purpose to test Horus' loyalty.
Olthannon wrote: I guess that if primaris are meant to be 8 and a half foot and the Votann model is about half that, then it's good enough.
I don't know what size they are but they look about the same as the AoS ones.
The issue with Primaris is that the models are scaled to look like a run of the mill seven foot tall Marine next to normal human models. The model tells us they're the size Marines should be like. Conceivably he fluff writers that cooked up the whole Primaris mess went with them being bigger than normal Marines because the new models are bigger than the old models. Which is pretty stupid, but we've had to deal with the Primaris size issue from the beginning.
GW is all about Marines and of course they would compare a new Squat to an Intercessor, but in my opinion we're going to be better off seeing a Squat next to a Guardsman or Genestealer (4th gen) Neophyte to get a real idea of what they look like. I find it a lot more sensible to compare an abhuman to a base human rather than a modified human. Of course GW disagrees...
I'd argue that actually, primaris are good choice because they are genetically enhanced to be that size and thus a good control scale. Baseline humans can be all sorts of sizes, as are their models.
So this is my own scale example using the Necromunda Squats. As with all Necromunda minis, they are a little larger than life. Part of the style of the game. Based on the other scale photo, the Votann will be a touch smaller than them. So I think they will look about right.
Geifer wrote: Kommandos are sneaky gits that done fight like proper Orks. Their Nob should be puny.
There is no lore support for that claim and there is no size difference between regular orks and regular kommadoz to support that theory either.
In most lore pieces about imperials fighting kommadoz they are actually described to be more vicious than regular orks, though the fear component of having a huge overpowering brute sneak up on you clearly changes perspective.
Regardless of the semantics the new squats do appear to be actually “squat”. We will know exactly by how much when they are released but all indications are that they will be shorter than a human. Which is all I ask.
I guess we'll get some form of icon bearer during the second wave. You can see some in the artwork. Not that artwork=model these days, but since standards are becoming more commonplace (primaris, death guard, sisters of battle, etc all have them), I'd be shocked if we didn't get some for the Leagues
"On that basis, wherever we included a traditional dwarfen element, we were careful to give it a gothic sci-fi reimagining and ensure it felt organic within this millennia-old spacefaring society.”"
To me it seems a little odd to say that when for example sticking a very clearly Dwarf-themed crest on something like the Hearthkyn Theyn comes across as not feeling very "organic" due to it being the only piece in the squad with that style.
Mentlegen324 wrote: To me it seems a little odd to say that when for example sticking a very clearly Dwarf-themed crest on something like the Hearthkyn Theyn comes across as not feeling very "organic" due to it being the only piece in the squad with that style.
Jess: "The angular decorative elements and runic motifs are similarly a callback to dwarfen runes. Their use increases as you go up the ranks, helping the elites stand out on the battlefield. While the basic look could be called utilitarian, these designs helped allude to the ancient nature and craftsmanship of some of their wargear."
Mentlegen324 wrote: To me it seems a little odd to say that when for example sticking a very clearly Dwarf-themed crest on something like the Hearthkyn Theyn comes across as not feeling very "organic" due to it being the only piece in the squad with that style.
Jess: "The angular decorative elements and runic motifs are similarly a callback to dwarfen runes. Their use increases as you go up the ranks, helping the elites stand out on the battlefield. While the basic look could be called utilitarian, these designs helped allude to the ancient nature and craftsmanship of some of their wargear."
It certainly works for me.
I think you sort of missed what I was getting it. It doesn't feel very organically or naturally integrated into them for a squad to have absolutely none of those design motifs but then a single one of them suddenly has a big obviously Dwarfy themed Crest.
No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
KillerAngel wrote: No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
But having more Dwarfy elements at a higher rank is a different matter, that didn't mean the only option for the rest was none at all actually on the model itself. If they had given even the basic warriors just a very small bit of that theming (not just just the decal) then it would have felt a bit more cohesive and not just suddenly appearing out of almost nowhere on the Theyn.
KillerAngel wrote: No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
But having more Dwarfy elements at a higher rank is a different matter, that didn't mean the only option for the rest was none at all actually on the model itself. If they had given even the basic warriors just a very small bit of that theming (not just just the decal) then it would have felt a bit more cohesive and not just suddenly appearing out of almost nowhere on the Theyn.
LMAO you're basically concern trolling at this point. Basic troops are plain. This is standard GW practice.
Marines all have some minor iconography. Same with Admech. Same with Necrons. Same with Sisters. I do think some minor iconography would have benefited the overall aesthetic. Why mock him for the aesthetic preference?
JSG wrote: LMAO you're basically concern trolling at this point. Basic troops are plain. This is standard GW practice.
And historical practice as well. What most people picture a "viking" to be is really a noble, or someone with money/skill enough to get the good gear. Most soldiers were just farmers or tradesmen with a shield a spear/axe. Not sure how the Hearthkyn are any different. They have the same armor and weapons, have the same general motifs, the higher ranks just have more ornate versions.
Geifer wrote: Kommandos are sneaky gits that done fight like proper Orks. Their Nob should be puny.
There is no lore support for that claim and there is no size difference between regular orks and regular kommadoz to support that theory either.
In most lore pieces about imperials fighting kommadoz they are actually described to be more vicious than regular orks, though the fear component of having a huge overpowering brute sneak up on you clearly changes perspective.
Orks get bigger the more they fight, and them kunnin' kommandos spend more time sneakin' about than bashin' 'eads in.
KillerAngel wrote: No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
But having more Dwarfy elements at a higher rank is a different matter, that didn't mean the only option for the rest was none at all actually on the model itself. If they had given even the basic warriors just a very small bit of that theming (not just just the decal) then it would have felt a bit more cohesive and not just suddenly appearing out of almost nowhere on the Theyn.
LMAO you're basically concern trolling at this point. Basic troops are plain. This is standard GW practice.
You're really going to go straight to mocking?
Go take a look at most basic troops again. Space Marines have iconography on their chest or bolter, Imperial Guard with an Aquila on their chest, helmet or lasgun, Orks glyphs, The Tau Empire shoulder pad, Necrons with the Ankh, Skitarii with their Chest cog, Genestealer cults with their cult symbol jewellery, Sororitas with the Fluer De Lyse.
There's a difference between the "plain" of nearly every other army and the "nothing" of the standard Hearthkyn.
Agreed. This is all just personal preference here, no one is wrong.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Go take a look at most basic troops again. Space Marines have iconography on their chest or bolter, Imperial Guard with an Aquila on their chest, helmet or lasgun, Orks glyphs, The Tau Empire shoulder pad, Necrons with the Ankh, Skitarii with their Chest cog, Genestealer cults with their cult symbol jewellery, Sororitas with the Fluer De Lyse.
There's a difference between the "plain" of nearly every other army and the "nothing" of the standard Hearthkyn.
I think you make a pretty valid point here, but in my mind, the "high-tech" and yet still "ancient nature" feel to the army is the unifying aesthetic. I don't think it needs to be "fantasy dwarf" based or centered around a faction logo, especially when "utilitarian" is what has been called out by the designers.
That said, I really want to draw up some high-tech space Viking shields to 3D print and use as the source of the Ymyr Conglomorate invulnerable save.
EDIT:
BTW, I really think this picture from the recent War-Com article really highlights what I mean by same aesthtic, but more ornate gear. Just need to figure out what I want to do about the squiggly runes...
Spoiler:
Then compare to a Viking warrior:
Spoiler:
A Viking Hersir (commander):
Spoiler:
Viking Huscarl (professional warrior):
Spoiler:
And finally a Viking Warlord:
Spoiler:
Sorry for the deep dive. Adderall just kicked in yo.
KillerAngel wrote: No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
But having more Dwarfy elements at a higher rank is a different matter, that didn't mean the only option for the rest was none at all actually on the model itself. If they had given even the basic warriors just a very small bit of that theming (not just just the decal) then it would have felt a bit more cohesive and not just suddenly appearing out of almost nowhere on the Theyn.
LMAO you're basically concern trolling at this point. Basic troops are plain. This is standard GW practice.
You're really going to go straight to mocking?
Go take a look at most basic troops again. Space Marines have iconography on their chest or bolter, Imperial Guard with an Aquila on their chest, helmet or lasgun, Orks glyphs, The Tau Empire shoulder pad, Necrons with the Ankh, Skitarii with their Chest cog, Genestealer cults with their cult symbol jewellery, Sororitas with the Fluer De Lyse.
There's a difference between the "plain" of nearly every other army and the "nothing" of the standard Hearthkyn.
Well, the old Squats were the same. The troopers had no iconography at all, they were just short soldiers with beards in kinda imperial uniform. Or biker dress. The only models with such stuff as runes, nordic helmets or beards on their armour were the Warlord and his Hearth Guard. It was like the Imperial Guard back then - those Roman/Greek style helmets and armour plates were reserved for the command units.
KillerAngel wrote: No, I understood what you meant. I just think it works, because as Jess says, the lower your rank, the more utilitarian, and the higher your rank, the more "dwarvish" elements get incorporated. To me the crest works, and doesn't look out of place at all. Some Hearthkyn might have decal-based runes, but the crest is the first thing that highlights "dwarf" in a way that visually lets the leader stand out. Almost like the old germanic totem-based standards, just without the need for a standard-bearer. Then the higher ranks start getting dwarven glyphs molded into their armor.
If I have a complaint, it's that I'm not a huge fan of the glyph designs. Feels more Celtic than Germanic.
But having more Dwarfy elements at a higher rank is a different matter, that didn't mean the only option for the rest was none at all actually on the model itself. If they had given even the basic warriors just a very small bit of that theming (not just just the decal) then it would have felt a bit more cohesive and not just suddenly appearing out of almost nowhere on the Theyn.
LMAO you're basically concern trolling at this point. Basic troops are plain. This is standard GW practice.
You're really going to go straight to mocking?
Go take a look at most basic troops again. Space Marines have iconography on their chest or bolter, Imperial Guard with an Aquila on their chest, helmet or lasgun, Orks glyphs, The Tau Empire shoulder pad, Necrons with the Ankh, Skitarii with their Chest cog, Genestealer cults with their cult symbol jewellery, Sororitas with the Fluer De Lyse.
There's a difference between the "plain" of nearly every other army and the "nothing" of the standard Hearthkyn.
Well, the old Squats were the same. The troopers had no iconography at all, they were just short soldiers with beards in kinda imperial uniform. Or biker dress. The only models with such stuff as runes, nordic helmets or beards on their armour were the Warlord and his Hearth Guard. It was like the Imperial Guard back then - those Roman/Greek style helmets and armour plates were reserved for the command units.
Like you said it was elites and leaders who got stuff in the way of decoration, and that applied to other armies too. That's just how miniatures were back then and wasn't so much a choice of direction for the Squats specifically.
All I can say is...clearly they didn't OP the hell out of this new faction in order to drum up sales. Oh wait, they did. Blatantly.
You know the more I've spent time looking at the models, the more I don't really like any of them. I wanted to buy in, but with 40K basically now a dead game in my local area, and the rules being a trash heap of a mess, I think it's time to just let it go...
So, unless I'm misreading something, based on today's interview it sounds like the design studio very deliberately chose to move the LoV beyond the dwarf archetype. I appreciate this, honestly. To me, 40k is at its worst when it's too derivative of other fantasy or sci-fi tropes, or when it just imports historical analogues without sufficient change. The weapons seem very "space dwarfish" to me, at least - chunky, solid, deliberate, imposing. I really like the new take on bolt and las weapons, honestly.
I do wonder if they might release more iconography-heavy units in the future, based on the feedback they're receiving now? Seems like that would improve the range for a lot of people.
crumby_cataphract wrote: So, unless I'm misreading something, based on today's interview it sounds like the design studio very deliberately chose to move the LoV beyond the dwarf archetype. I appreciate this, honestly. To me, 40k is at its worst when it's too derivative of other fantasy or sci-fi tropes, or when it just imports historical analogues without sufficient change.
40k is at its worst when it is... being 40k? That's an interesting take.
crumby_cataphract wrote: So, unless I'm misreading something, based on today's interview it sounds like the design studio very deliberately chose to move the LoV beyond the dwarf archetype. I appreciate this, honestly. To me, 40k is at its worst when it's too derivative of other fantasy or sci-fi tropes, or when it just imports historical analogues without sufficient change.
40k is at its worst when it is... being 40k? That's an interesting take.
I really don't get the idea of wanting a Fantasy in Space setting to not be what it's meant to be.
crumby_cataphract wrote: So, unless I'm misreading something, based on today's interview it sounds like the design studio very deliberately chose to move the LoV beyond the dwarf archetype. I appreciate this, honestly. To me, 40k is at its worst when it's too derivative of other fantasy or sci-fi tropes, or when it just imports historical analogues without sufficient change.
40k is at its worst when it is... being 40k? That's an interesting take.
I really don't get the idea of wanting a Fantasy in Space setting to not be what it's meant to be.
I really don't understand these last two comments. crumby_cataphract is rather clear that he likes it when 40K takes its source material and transforms it rather than than just importing it.
I would think they find Space Wolves to be fine in concept, but gets rather ridiculous when you start adding things like the Stormwolf/Stormfang (flying Viking Longboat) and Logan Grimnir on a sleigh (Odin as Santa Claus).
That helmet that's been part of the Space Wolves since the 90s?
Yes, the helmet that's been part of a few characters and showed up like once in one plastic set beforehand, the same one of which you get 10 copies with little variation as your one and only Space Wolf helmet option that's not specific to Grey Slayers.
crumby_cataphract wrote: So, unless I'm misreading something, based on today's interview it sounds like the design studio very deliberately chose to move the LoV beyond the dwarf archetype. I appreciate this, honestly. To me, 40k is at its worst when it's too derivative of other fantasy or sci-fi tropes, or when it just imports historical analogues without sufficient change.
40k is at its worst when it is... being 40k? That's an interesting take.
I really don't get the idea of wanting a Fantasy in Space setting to not be what it's meant to be.
I really don't understand these last two comments. crumby_cataphract is rather clear that he likes it when 40K takes its source material and transforms it rather than than just importing it.
I would think they find Space Wolves to be fine in concept, but gets rather ridiculous when you start adding things like the Stormwolf/Stormfang (flying Viking Longboat) and Logan Grimnir on a sleigh (Odin as Santa Claus).
Thank you, yes. You've expressed my feelings better than I did. I'm not opposed at all to 40k taking the germ of its ideas from other settings. It just seems more interesting to me when they put their own spin on these initial inspirations, kind of like they've done with the LoV.
“The Leagues exo-armour went through several iterations”, Jes continues. “Trying to evoke the feel of early Terminator suits while making them their own thing was a bit of a balancing act. In the end I looked back at a very early Terminator model I made in the eighties, before the design that we are familiar with today was set. The huge pauldrons, exposed spine, and inset bowl helmet are from there.
The picture they show right after?
Yeah, let's talk about how the new helmet is inspired by the old helmet and then not show the new helmet...
I think the bigger takeaway is that these may be a tease of how a Saturnine termie release might look if GW were to rerelease them. Not an exact look, mind you, but more an idea of how they may interpret some of those design elements and proportions, etc.
I'd be disappointed if the Terminator got that much of a reimagining. I'll take Jes's word on what his inspiration was, he'd know better than me after all, but I would never have guessed that the shoulder pads were supposed to hark back to that armor variant. As large as the Squat pauldrons are, they cap out at the top of the head and are nowhere close to towering over head and torso and shaping the armor's silhouette like they do on the Terminator.
“The Leagues exo-armour went through several iterations”, Jes continues. “Trying to evoke the feel of early Terminator suits while making them their own thing was a bit of a balancing act. In the end I looked back at a very early Terminator model I made in the eighties, before the design that we are familiar with today was set. The huge pauldrons, exposed spine, and inset bowl helmet are from there.
The picture they show right after?
Yeah, let's talk about how the new helmet is inspired by the old helmet and then not show the new helmet...
They changed the picture. Originally it was the other style of terminator shown at the bottom here:
I feel like the Exo-suit would have been better if the shoulders were sleeker and more curved like the Terminator. An artist on twitter did a paintover of something like that and I think it makes quite a difference:
Wish the launch box didn't have two squads of kin in it. I would rather have had a different second squad. I am aware that's is a basic legal force ruleswise, but initially I am interested in the painting and 20 of the same model is not as appealing. I'll definitely be picking up some LoV but the launch box won't be it due to the lack of variation.
I feel like the Exo-suit would have been better if the shoulders were sleeker and more curved like the Terminator. An artist on twitter did a paintover of something like that and I think it makes quite a difference:
So instead of a Terran Marine it now looks like X-01 power armor.
I took a step back (literally, for unrelated reasons) and I don't have a problem with the silhouette GW went with. In my opinion the blocky, heavy look works just fine for dwarfs. I'm just not sure if the separate plates atop the shoulder pad add anything. It's an element they also put on the vehicles, most visibly on the Road Caravan, so I can see why they would put something like that on heavy personal armor, but to me it looks distracting.
On the bright side, these seem to be set up like Marine shoulder pads, so replacing them should be easy.
Sureshot05 wrote: Wish the launch box didn't have two squads of kin in it. I would rather have had a different second squad. I am aware that's is a basic legal force ruleswise, but initially I am interested in the painting and 20 of the same model is not as appealing. I'll definitely be picking up some LoV but the launch box won't be it due to the lack of variation.
I take it a squad each with a different basic weapon doesn't appeal? Between that and the sergeant and special weapon options I could see getting some variety out of twenty of the basic guys.
That looks really cool Mentlegen, the shoulder curve reminds me a bit of the Frank Horrigan Fallout miniature
Spoiler:
I do love these new designs! Hopefully those exo-armour will come with a helmeted head and enough for the squad, if not I am sure there will be 3rd party or 3D print alternatives out within months
Pacific wrote: That looks really cool Mentlegen, the shoulder curve reminds me a bit of the Frank Horrigan Fallout miniature
Spoiler:
I do love these new designs! Hopefully those exo-armour will come with a helmeted head and enough for the squad, if not I am sure there will be 3rd party or 3D print alternatives out within months
I find it quite hilarious that they hearken back to their early terminators for the supposed influence for that nusquat armour, yet all I can see when I look at it is starcraft marines smushed with some world of warcraft influence for the pauldrons being as awkwardly offset from the head as they are.
It would be truly interesting to get an actually candid explanation of their design process and influences that was sincere to what they looked at, rather than a, "see look, we only copy our own ideas, honestly" PR piece that we get instead.
But in a world where GW has argued in court that their ideas are 100% their own and completely original, we will unfortunately never get that.
Remember, GW are on record in the Chapterhouse case as saying they don't take inspiration from other sources despite the artists and other employees comments to the contrary over the decades.
Looking like that the kits will have loads of heads, helmeted, bare, semi closed helmets and iron... Also a throwing grenade option on the one painted in red.
Pacific wrote: Does anyone familiar with how these releases are planned know how soon after the army box they generally sell the individual unit box sets?
There was a month between the BT box and follow up release
Pacific wrote: Does anyone familiar with how these releases are planned know how soon after the army box they generally sell the individual unit box sets?
Due to launch boxes being introduced shortly before Covid and the shipping delays that sprung up afterwards make it a bit hard to tell, but two months isn't a bad guideline. But it's hard to tell if the launch box is on time. A larger November release with maybe Guard and Slaves to Darkness squeezed in afterwards might be a little tight, so perhaps they're sooner. But probably not later.
It's really hard to tell. It depends how long GW expects the launch box to be on sale for; how long they plan for things and what shipping delays and mistakes happen that can cause delays in the whole process.
That said in the normal operation of things army starters like this shouldn't be too far ahead of the individual releases since the idea is to build hype with a discount box and then run with that hype into a series of releases that fleshes out the army.
KidCthulhu wrote: Just gonna say I hate that GW really changed Power From Pain to do away with Pain Tokens. Now these new guys have tokens...
Gotta say this is a really weird complaint. You're upset that a rule which can apply to nearly every unit in the army was made easier to keep track of?
GW were happy to include a sheet of tokens with the latest GSC codex, so it's clear they're willing to get them printed if there's a decent reason for the extra bookkeeping during a game. If anything it's in their interest to retain token-based rules where possible, as it's an extra reason for someone to buy their own copy of a codex rather than downloading it.
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Pacific wrote: Does anyone familiar with how these releases are planned know how soon after the army box they generally sell the individual unit box sets?
For Orks it was 6 weeks between Beastsnagga launch box and the general codex release
For BT it was 3 weeks
For Chaos Knights it was 4 weeks
Is there enough being released in this wave to prevent the need for a second one? The Lumineth fiasco really put me off new armies, what with a box like this, then a new book for the new models less than a year later.
This was the "Battletome: Lumineth Realm-Lords" and "Broken Realms: Teclis", for the new models.
They did it with Ad Mech, but the gap was a lot longer.
Pacific wrote: Does anyone familiar with how these releases are planned know how soon after the army box they generally sell the individual unit box sets?
A quite accurate rumour has the rest coming 22nd of October and 29th of October [2 waves]. Thats from the discord.
Pretty happy with that price.Seems reasonable, I'm hoping they might keepthe prices on the lower side [for new releases] as they wilwant it to be successful and for the faction to establish itself [they did the same with DE when they came out], they will want to capture the market first.
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Skinnereal wrote: Is there enough being released in this wave to prevent the need for a second one? The Lumineth fiasco really put me off new armies, what with a box like this, then a new book for the new models less than a year later.
This was the "Battletome: Lumineth Realm-Lords" and "Broken Realms: Teclis", for the new models.
They did it with Ad Mech, but the gap was a lot longer.
I'd say there's a good chance of a second wave next year -especially with 10th coming. They could do it with a campaign book or at least a killteam, could be 2024 but its a new faction they will want to fill it out soonish. However the army sets are pretty good value - you are basically getting the book for free and a bit more so if you buy the army set you don't really lose anything if a new book does come out. 3 units are probably going to be at least £35 each on average and the characters will be around £20 so its about £145 worth of models [if not more] before the book is added. If you like the faction id try and get the set.
DaveC wrote: £120 for the army set ($200, €155 based on Mega Gargant prices)
First of all: thank you once again for always sharing this early - it is highly appreciated!
Honestly? I think this set is a really good deal.
Assuming prices I would call reasonable (with what I expect GW to charge for them later on, based on comparable prices right now):
Codex - 25€ (40+)
two characters - 15€ each (30+ each)
set of hovertrikes - 40€ (50+)
two sets of 10 grunts - 30€ each (40+ each)
Which adds up to those 155€, not even taking into account the decals, markers and cards. The "regular" prices add up to at least 230€, plus whatever those extras would be. Now consider you get this box with any sort of discount... yeah, not too bad actually.
Looks to me like GWreally wants to shift a lot of these.
DaveC wrote: £120 for the army set ($200, €155 based on Mega Gargant prices)
First of all: thank you once again for always sharing this early - it is highly appreciated!
Honestly? I think this set is a really good deal.
Assuming prices I would call reasonable (with what I expect GW to charge for them later on, based on comparable prices right now):
Codex - 25€ (40+)
two characters - 15€ each (30+ each)
set of hovertrikes - 40€ (50+)
two sets of 10 grunts - 30€ each (40+ each)
Which adds up to those 155€, not even taking into account the decals, markers and cards. The "regular" prices add up to at least 230€, plus whatever those extras would be. Now consider you get this box with any sort of discount... yeah, not too bad actually.
Looks to me like GWreally wants to shift a lot of these.
The final RRP when that stuff is sold separately will probably be a bit higher. Based on recent releases we're looking at something like this.
Olthannon wrote: Is this GW store exclusive or is it going to be cheaper from an independent store?
Because £96 for that set is pretty damn good.
The Indies usually get boxes- I'm hoping to get mine from Darksphere, the only issue might be supply but there's no sign that this will be super limited and I'm guessing GW will want to shift a lot of these to get the faction established.
There’s also an article up explaining some of their weapons,
HunTR (Lordy) is basically fixed shots ala Assault, but without the Advance and Fire option.
Magna Rail is pretty sick. 6 to wound, and any excess damage is splashed to the unit. With D3+3, that can do some nasty things to elite units.
Beam is quite nice too. Pick your target, draw a line. Every unit between you and target take a hit. And if a hit unit is wholly 15” or more away, that’s two hits. Perhaps situational, and best off in the early game, but nice all the same.
Quick question, are friendly units "eligible to be targeted"? If there is no ruling on this, I smell another day one FAQ.
I am laughing at the HunTR profile though. Would it have been so difficult to call it standard? Now we have Borderlands style weapon types. And I thought Dakka weapon profiles were bad.
Personally I don't like the Magna Rail ability. 1. Because it again slows down the entire process with yet another special rule for wound allocation. And 2. because it sounds way too powerful, the weapon will kill most of a squad if that triggers. It sort of disturbs the clean disparity that exists between anti tank and anti infantry weapons.
But then, I am very out of the loop in 9th, maybe that kill potential is already accepted meta at this point.
You can’t normally target friendly units, but I’m guessing Beam is an exception, as it doesn’t necessarily target friendlies, but a careless shot can still affect them?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On Magna Rail. It seems really swingy, possibly too swingy to be favourable over other, as yet unseen options.
I mean, outside of CP and Buff Bubble shenanigans, you’re not likely to trigger the special ability. So even if I’ve say, three in a unit, I’m likely to only kill a single model or two, once we factor in rolling to hit as well.
Hmmm. I do however wonder how it stacks up with Judgement Tokens? I mean, with three any to hit roll of 4+ auto wounds. So…would I still get to roll to see if I get that exploding 6 or not, because that step is pre-determined?
The Beams thing:
"Excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected".
So, not transport passengers that get tipped out, and not friendlies, as you cannot target them at all.
GiToRaZor wrote: Quick question, are friendly units "eligible to be targeted"? If there is no ruling on this, I smell another day one FAQ.
I am laughing at the HunTR profile though. Would it have been so difficult to call it standard? Now we have Borderlands style weapon types. And I thought Dakka weapon profiles were bad.
Personally I don't like the Magna Rail ability. 1. Because it again slows down the entire process with yet another special rule for wound allocation. And 2. because it sounds way too powerful, the weapon will kill most of a squad if that triggers. It sort of disturbs the clean disparity that exists between anti tank and anti infantry weapons.
But then, I am very out of the loop in 9th, maybe that kill potential is already accepted meta at this point.
You forgot one crucial detail - Judgement Tokens' auto-wound count as 6s for the purposes of the Magnarail, meaning it will trigger every single time it autowounds with a Judgement Token
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You can’t normally target friendly units, but I’m guessing Beam is an exception, as it doesn’t necessarily target friendlies, but a careless shot can still affect them?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On Magna Rail. It seems really swingy, possibly too swingy to be favourable over other, as yet unseen options.
I mean, outside of CP and Buff Bubble shenanigans, you’re not likely to trigger the special ability. So even if I’ve say, three in a unit, I’m likely to only kill a single model or two, once we factor in rolling to hit as well.
Hmmm. I do however wonder how it stacks up with Judgement Tokens? I mean, with three any to hit roll of 4+ auto wounds. So…would I still get to roll to see if I get that exploding 6 or not, because that step is pre-determined?
Nope, the Codex specifies that a Judgement Token autowound counts as a 6, specifically for purposes of things like the Mangarail. Meaning that instead of only triggering off a 6 to wound, it'll trigger on a 4+ to hit against a fully Token-ed up enemy
Oh wow, that rail rifle ignores invuls. I sure hope they give that ability back to warscythes.
So they introduced yet another weapon type and bolter variant. I guess they thought marines shouldn't be the only ones with bolter bloat. Not sure what to think about beam weapons. Wasn't that a thing before and it caused issues? Jaws of the Wolf wasn't it?
Togusa wrote: God these naming conventions are getting insane. I can't wait for the STalkR Class Sniper Take-downer and the Gamma-Class SHftR Phase Cannon.
I can't wait for them to release a new heavy weapons system for the squats - the BIGR Bolter.
Togusa wrote: God these naming conventions are getting insane. I can't wait for the STalkR Class Sniper Take-downer and the Gamma-Class SHftR Phase Cannon.
I can't wait for them to release a new heavy weapons system for the squats - the BIGR Bolter.
Togusa wrote: God these naming conventions are getting insane. I can't wait for the STalkR Class Sniper Take-downer and the Gamma-Class SHftR Phase Cannon.
I can't wait for them to release a new heavy weapons system for the squats - the BIGR Bolter.
I also can't help but read these names with our biazarre company culture of seeming to purposely mispronounce "backronyms" for silly science products and proteins that they clearly let the undergrads vote on.
ByJER bolter it is! Let our Hold never forgive those who labour under the Votann 'Jiff Motionpic'.
Dark age of technology humans thought it was a funny joke to let the public vote on the name for their new ship design. More than ten thousand years later, the Boaty McBoatface class brings death to the enemies of the Imperium.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Dark age of technology humans thought it was a funny joke to let the public vote on the name for their new ship design. More than ten thousand years later, the Boaty McBoatface class brings death to the enemies of the Imperium.
Ah yes, the exploits of the venerable Titan, The BigChungusXXYeet420 will live on in Imperial history.
Reminds me of a conversation I had over 20 years ago when The Matrix first came to theaters. Everyone in that movie uses their in-Matrix screen name as their name in the real world. You gotta know at some point someone regretted using the handle "PoppaHugeMeatXXX".
GoatboyBeta wrote: Dark age of technology humans thought it was a funny joke to let the public vote on the name for their new ship design. More than ten thousand years later, the Boaty McBoatface class brings death to the enemies of the Imperium.
Ah yes, the exploits of the venerable Titan, The BigChungusXXYeet420 will live on in Imperial history.
I hope someone already did this with one of their Knights. If not.....I might need to
Togusa wrote: God these naming conventions are getting insane. I can't wait for the STalkR Class Sniper Take-downer and the Gamma-Class SHftR Phase Cannon.
You laugh, but look at some of the forced acronyms being used in military systems today. Many are every bit as bad.
I really like the teal/grey schemes. Nice and restful Also allows for easy weathering with dark browns and oranges, as opposed to the deeper red schemes where you'd need to be using dark grey or something and its a bit less poppy to me.
So we've got Kronus the Youngest (so much for Votann 'dying off', I guess; also lets have the youngest thing named after Kronus, rather than the progenitor. Its irony!), the USSR, the Trans-Siberian Orchestra, the return of the Y's, and I guess the Greater Generic Brand (I assume this is one the special character is attached to?).
Also 'there are many more, but we aren't going to talk about custom franchises' (haven't looked at the leaks, do these exist?)
Voss wrote: So we've got Kronus the Youngest (so much for Votann 'dying off', I guess; also lets have the youngest thing named after Kronus, rather than the progenitor. Its irony!), the USSR, the Trans-Siberian Orchestra, the return of the Y's, and I guess the Greater Generic Brand (I assume this is one the special character is attached to?).
Also 'there are many more, but we aren't going to talk about custom franchises' (have looked at the leaks, do these exist?)
they do exist, but not good as the five main ones. I am shure someone will figure out a combo that is better than the five.
Voss wrote: You guys do know that yellow and orange aren't the same, right?
And grey isn't black?
That they aren't literally the same is besides the point.
I'm not making a semantic argument (let alone one about 'literally'). The colors simply don't look the same and have different tones.
If there is a color blindness issue, then that's fine, but the idea of getting those two color schemes confused is... odd. Especially with the existing lack of variety to GW color schemes.
And if I'm saying you're nitpicking squats too much....
Honestly, the Trans Hyperion Alliance has an outstanding scheme. So does the Ymyr Conglomerate. Kind of wish the studio had gone with one of these as their showcase scheme instead of the Greater Thurian League. Though I suppose if they'd gone with Ymyr, a bunch of people might've just memed about them being short Blood Angels.
The Ymyr color scheme completely changed my mind on the aesthetics of the faction It just looks so much better than the teal. They really should have gone with it as the faction scheme.
I kind of like that green scheme. Although I'm thinking I'm gonna paint mine like fyreslayers. Orange, gold, silver, and stone. Throw some Jade in there, some read drake scales here and there. I think it'd make them look good
Okay, I'm following the names so far, but what in the world is a Regulate? What are they regulating? Thier own people? Power fluxes? The Resource management of their holdings?
ProfSrlojohn wrote: Okay, I'm following the names so far, but what in the world is a Regulate? What are they regulating? Their own people? Power fluxes? The Resource management of their holdings?
Regulate: To adjust something to a desired level or standard.
So we have the well-regulated militia of the Urani-Surtr Regulates. Has a bit of a ring to it...
I really like those color schemes and the icons for the leagues as well. I'd say the orange one is my least favorite, it's vibrant for sure....but I just don't like painting orange. The yellow/black one appeals to me a lot, along with the red one, I think i'd pick between those two. Though I get the feelin the Ymyr red will be the most popular scheme to see around once people start painting them.
I like the black and yellow color scheme best, but what actually caught my eye is the red guy. Not for the color scheme. It's amazing (if unsurprising) how much the helmet completes the look of the void armor, and combined with the lack of a huge gun to block view to half of it the armor design actually looks really cool.
It seems the 100PL crusade game on WH+ showed off some of the Grudge crusade mechanics.
Before the games starts but after deployment: Roll 1d6 for every unit in your army that has a grudge against the faction you're playing against. 6= 1 Grudge token, 1= -1CP. Grudge token goes on any enemy unit you want, and is essentially a judgment token, but only for units with the applicable grudge.
Seems fluffy and fun but also like more bookkeeping. Hoping there's more crusade nuggets in the battle report.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It seems the 100PL crusade game on WH+ showed off some of the Grudge crusade mechanics.
Just watching this now and saw a great example of layered rules gone badly wrong.
A Land Fortress targeted some boyz inside a building with a Heavy 1 magna rail cannon and rolls a one to hit. He used Uthar's special rule to change that one to a six. The judgement token means that an unmodified six to hit automatically wounds AND counts as another unmodified six, in turn triggering another rule that lets magna rail weapons keep allocating excess damage. Also a wargear upgrade on the Land Fortress (which might be Crusade-only, I'm not certain) generates a bonus hit from an unmodified six to hit.
So a weapon that rolled a natural one to hit ended up killing 13 models without even requiring any reroll. That's bananas.
You would think that using that rule would mean it was a modified six to hit, not an unmodified one, but I may need to brush up on what 40k currently considers as (un)modified.
Dysartes wrote: You would think that using that rule would mean it was a modified six to hit, not an unmodified one, but I may need to brush up on what 40k currently considers as (un)modified.
It's not unmodified since it just straight up replaces a die with a unmodified 6. Kind of like how the Judgement Token autowound count as a 6 to wound.
Dysartes wrote: You would think that using that rule would mean it was a modified six to hit, not an unmodified one, but I may need to brush up on what 40k currently considers as (un)modified.
Just finished watching the first and third battle report (couldn’t stomach second one, nid player was pretty annoying). Voltann are definitely nuts, just terrible mechanics with massive damage output. If the ork player didn’t have 2 massive explosions, the Voltann would barely have lost anything.
bullyboy wrote: Just finished watching the first and third battle report (couldn’t stomach second one, nid player was pretty annoying). Voltann are definitely nuts, just terrible mechanics with massive damage output. If the ork player didn’t have 2 massive explosions, the Voltann would barely have lost anything.
Loved the comment in the third battle report.
Paraphrasing, but the gist is "You rolled a one and hit me twice".
I was hoping the battle reports were exaggerating the overpowered mess, you know, marketing ploy to get them sold better.
But then watched a little more closely, not even then GW employees really seem to enjoy the experience: "I had so much fun being blasted off the board by turn 3", said one essentially.
For summary:
Game 1: IG with the beautiful (and expensive) Ventrillian Nobles. Sure thing, let the newest codex play against the oldest. IG was down under 50% after turn one, despite having initiative. LoV rolled extremely bad, IG had way over avarage results. Basically wiped after turn 2 anyway. You could see the forced smile on the designer, that was dragged out for this curb stomping.
Game 2: Tyranids have first turn and manage a turn 1 charge with half the army. In the end still only score points for fully painted. Wiped in turn 4, effectively out of combat by end of turn 2.
Game 3: As mentioned, Orks basically only killed by "luckily" always exploding on 6s in CC. Wiped on turn 3. Admittedly played a very weak list with Truck boys and a Ghorkanaut. (Funnily if I saw that right, not even the employees play the new boys kit)
The sick thing is, the LoV didn't even have luck, they had all the odds stacked against them, rolled often terribly, and still effectively wiped every opponent by turn 2-3. 40K balance does not look to get better anytime soon.
GiToRaZor wrote: I was hoping the battle reports were exaggerating the overpowered mess, you know, marketing ploy to get them sold better.
But then watched a little more closely, not even then GW employees really seem to enjoy the experience: "I had so much fun being blasted off the board by turn 3", said one essentially.
For summary:
Game 1: IG with the beautiful (and expensive) Ventrillian Nobles. Sure thing, let the newest codex play against the oldest. IG was down under 50% after turn one, despite having initiative. LoV rolled extremely bad, IG had way over avarage results. Basically wiped after turn 2 anyway. You could see the forced smile on the designer, that was dragged out for this curb stomping.
Game 2: Tyranids have first turn and manage a turn 1 charge with half the army. In the end still only score points for fully painted. Wiped in turn 4, effectively out of combat by end of turn 2.
Game 3: As mentioned, Orks basically only killed by "luckily" always exploding on 6s in CC. Wiped on turn 3. Admittedly played a very weak list with Truck boys and a Ghorkanaut. (Funnily if I saw that right, not even the employees play the new boys kit)
The sick thing is, the LoV didn't even have luck, they had all the odds stacked against them, rolled often terribly, and still effectively wiped every opponent by turn 2-3. 40K balance does not look to get better anytime soon.
The armies are painted by the studio team for the battle reports, one or two are staffs own armies like the ventrillians but it’s mostly armies especially made for the battle report. They did an article about it. So it’s not the “staff don’t play the new boyz” at all.
It’s a bit disingenuous to say they didn’t seem to enjoy it. On the contrary, they looked to thoroughly enjoy the battle I thought. All the battles they fought were very much squats vs an npc, showing off the new faction and the new rules, no surprise there, it’s basically a big advert.
The squats have a dozen units at the minute. Surely it shouldn’t be hard for some competitive genius out there to figure out a counter to their 12 units and post it online so everyone can copy it.
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bullyboy wrote: Just finished watching the first and third battle report (couldn’t stomach second one, nid player was pretty annoying). Voltann are definitely nuts, just terrible mechanics with massive damage output. If the ork player didn’t have 2 massive explosions, the Voltann would barely have lost anything.
The guy who played the nids is sooo annoying, and the the third guys “ORK” accent throughout really grated too.
bullyboy wrote: Just finished watching the first and third battle report (couldn’t stomach second one, nid player was pretty annoying). Voltann are definitely nuts, just terrible mechanics with massive damage output. If the ork player didn’t have 2 massive explosions, the Voltann would barely have lost anything.
They’re stunt games though. Hence the Votann didn’t gun for the Gorkanaut with the first Rail Gun shot. They’re absolutely a sales pitch for the product.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Let’s also be realistic here. The shot in question was the result of three things interacting.
First, the Judgement Token came from a sub-faction benefit.
Then, the selection of the Special Character, which ensure one shot a turn hits on a 6
Third, the weapon’s profile itself.
Remove either of the first two? And the damage drops significantly. Granted that’s bugger all help if your opponent has taken those three elements. But, it’s still not something you’ll see in every game.
Ain't that how most OP wombo-combos are born? By stacking bonuses on top of bonuses until you get something utterly ludicrous, like the Unkillable Iron Hands Leviathan of what felt like ages ago?
Are the Orks lined up in a conga line for the rail gun to core them like that? (I know they are not but that's what that kind of rules performance conjures up as the in-universe image)
Iracundus wrote: Are the Orks lined up in a conga line for the rail gun to core them like that? (I know they are not but that's what that kind of rules performance conjures up as the in-universe image)
I have a mental image of the railgun shot bouncing around the entire squad like a pinball, exploding every Ork it bounces off.
Cheers! Thats the scheme I'm most interested in but I struggle to get a good orange. I made a custom scheme with blue/black under suit, celestral grey amour with orange helmet and shoulder pads and dark red backpack and guns for the necromunda squats. Thinking I'll evolve it a little more towards this scheme. Interested to see the parade ready version.
Iracundus wrote: Are the Orks lined up in a conga line for the rail gun to core them like that? (I know they are not but that's what that kind of rules performance conjures up as the in-universe image)
I have a mental image of the railgun shot bouncing around the entire squad like a pinball, exploding every Ork it bounces off.
Personally, I picture the bone fragments of the first casualty turning into shrapnel with all that kinetic energy.
I am really liking the helmet design, especially in contrast to the Iron Kin. Certainly makes it less obvious that some of them are Abominable Intelligence.
bullyboy wrote: Just finished watching the first and third battle report (couldn’t stomach second one, nid player was pretty annoying). Voltann are definitely nuts, just terrible mechanics with massive damage output. If the ork player didn’t have 2 massive explosions, the Voltann would barely have lost anything.
They’re stunt games though. Hence the Votann didn’t gun for the Gorkanaut with the first Rail Gun shot.
The Naut isn't dangerous so why would they need to? I don't shoot one immediately when I see it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I am really liking the helmet design, especially in contrast to the Iron Kin. Certainly makes it less obvious that some of them are Abominable Intelligence.
Yeah you can clearly differentiate between them and the helmet design is like several layers of armour, meaning that just by painting those layers in different colours you can come up with something visually very different. If you paint say the full interior like glass rather than just the visor it will look quite cool.
Looking at the power of the release codex and thinking back to Orks, the following timeline seems possible for Votann:
Week 1 - Limited edition codex released.
Week 2~5 - 3D printed Hekatrukk Dwarfbuggies rampage across the tournament scene..
Week 6 - Normal codex and second/third model wave releases.
Week 8 - Nerfs to Votann.
It is fine if you plan to build and paint for the next 6~9 months or so, but I remember a few Ork players being a little miffed at this. Also remember a Tyranid player being upset that just as they got their codex (a little later than most for some reason) half the army special rules in the codex got re-written.
Also it seems I misunderstood the grudge tokens. 1 or 2 let's you reroll hit rolls of 1 and 3 let's you reroll all hit rolls.
Just for clarification, a Grudge Token also counts as a judgement token. So 3 Grudge Token on a Unit mean:
You reroll all misses and you auto wound (6) on a 4+ to hit.
I guess those videos of the Votann crushing their opponents are just a modern version of what they used to do in the WD battle reports, which is whenever a new army was released it would usually be played by Andy Chambers, who would beat Jervis Johnson with it and show off what a cool army it was.
A friend and I are getting back into 2nd edition - the new Votann releases line up really well with the old 2nd edition army list, and you can play a squad-level game with 25-30 minis and a couple of vehicles/walkers.
Pacific wrote: I guess those videos of the Votann crushing their opponents are just a modern version of what they used to do in the WD battle reports, which is whenever a new army was released it would usually be played by Andy Chambers, who would beat Jervis Johnson with it and show off what a cool army it was.
Lol, the only exception to that back in 3rd/4th edition that I remember bucking the trend (back when I had a WD subscription) was the perennial Imperial punching bag of the Imperial Guard. I felt quite deflated after reading it as a new IG player.
Pacific wrote: I guess those videos of the Votann crushing their opponents are just a modern version of what they used to do in the WD battle reports, which is whenever a new army was released it would usually be played by Andy Chambers, who would beat Jervis Johnson with it and show off what a cool army it was.
Lol, the only exception to that back in 3rd/4th edition that I remember bucking the trend (back when I had a WD subscription) was the perennial Imperial punching bag of the Imperial Guard. I felt quite deflated after reading it as a new IG player.
Dark Eldar, Eldar, Necrons (sort of), Imperial Guard, Orks, Dark Angels all lost their inaugural 3rd ed. battle reports.
warboss wrote: Lol, the only exception to that back in 3rd/4th edition that I remember bucking the trend (back when I had a WD subscription) was the perennial Imperial punching bag of the Imperial Guard. I felt quite deflated after reading it as a new IG player.
Can't have them grunts showing up the shiny Space Marines
Pacific wrote: I guess those videos of the Votann crushing their opponents are just a modern version of what they used to do in the WD battle reports, which is whenever a new army was released it would usually be played by Andy Chambers, who would beat Jervis Johnson with it and show off what a cool army it was.
Lol, the only exception to that back in 3rd/4th edition that I remember bucking the trend (back when I had a WD subscription) was the perennial Imperial punching bag of the Imperial Guard. I felt quite deflated after reading it as a new IG player.
Dark Eldar, Eldar, Necrons (sort of), Imperial Guard, Orks, Dark Angels all lost their inaugural 3rd ed. battle reports.
'The new army always used to win' is a meme.
But was that losing a GW reaction to the perception that new armies always won inaugural reports?
Hmm thats interesting, I've got a stack of old WDs I would say 130s onwards through to the 200s where new armies always seemed to win. Certainly through 2nd edition, although there must have been exceptions. I don't spend any time looking at memes though so my perception certainly isn't based on that.
Pacific wrote: I guess those videos of the Votann crushing their opponents are just a modern version of what they used to do in the WD battle reports, which is whenever a new army was released it would usually be played by Andy Chambers, who would beat Jervis Johnson with it and show off what a cool army it was.
A friend and I are getting back into 2nd edition - the new Votann releases line up really well with the old 2nd edition army list, and you can play a squad-level game with 25-30 minis and a couple of vehicles/walkers.
In 2000+ i actually counted new army winrate in first wd br. Wanna guess what it was from close to decade worth of wd's?
So here is my Leagues of Votann army set unboxing & review, incl. high-res sprue pics, codex flick-through and a few size comparisons with other 40k infantry & AoS Duardin models. I think they scale up quite nicely and aren‘t as big as some photoshopped size comparisons made them to be. Hearthkyn Warriors come on 28mm bases btw.
stahly wrote: So here is my Leagues of Votann army set unboxing & review, incl. high-res sprue pics, codex flick-through and a few size comparisons with other 40k infantry & AoS Duardin models. I think they scale up quite nicely and aren‘t as big as some photoshopped size comparisons made them to be. Hearthkyn Warriors come on 28mm bases btw.
stahly wrote:There are also a lot of choices when it comes to armament. All 10 models can be equipped with either an auto-pattern bolter or ion blaster, or with a bolt pistol and melee weapon. Strangely enough, the latter is not an option in the codex.
When the other half of their Codex comes out in 18-ish months, there will be a new Irn Kyn Avyngyrs or something unit that will have lots of them, no doubt.
stahly wrote:There are also a lot of choices when it comes to armament. All 10 models can be equipped with either an auto-pattern bolter or ion blaster, or with a bolt pistol and melee weapon. Strangely enough, the latter is not an option in the codex.
The hell?
Kill Team option, or their second Codex is already ready....
So reading those Codex pages, it says the Bastion and Stronghold class ships (i.e. the Demiurg ships from BFG) are LoV ships which all but says Demiurg are LoV. Also it says their geller fields are stronger than humanity's, but their warp travel is slower than that of humans or even the Tau slipstream modules. So strategically they seem to be the slowest in terms of stellar travel.
stahly wrote:There are also a lot of choices when it comes to armament. All 10 models can be equipped with either an auto-pattern bolter or ion blaster, or with a bolt pistol and melee weapon. Strangely enough, the latter is not an option in the codex.
The hell?
Because it seems they've all been modeled incorrectly (or given the wrong rules). That weapon being held was listed as a Bolt Revolver in one of the articles, and it's different from the Hernkyn Bolt Revolver. The weapon in their holster also matches the grip of the one that's being held, so they all have bolt revolvers - not the Autoch bolt pistol they're supposed to have, which has been shown on the Theyn.
So this bolt revolver here, doesn't actually exist:
You have to proxy your Hearhkyn with a different weapon to one they have modeled.
I won’t be using mine if you want them, I can post them to you free, just PM me. Seems only fair and in the spirit of you loot sharing group which has helped me out before more than once.
I won’t be using mine if you want them, I can post them to you free, just PM me. Seems only fair and in the spirit of you loot sharing group which has helped me out before more than once.
stahly wrote: So here is my Leagues of Votann army set unboxing & review, incl. high-res sprue pics, codex flick-through and a few size comparisons with other 40k infantry & AoS Duardin models. I think they scale up quite nicely and aren‘t as big as some photoshopped size comparisons made them to be. Hearthkyn Warriors come on 28mm bases btw.
stahly wrote: So here is my Leagues of Votann army set unboxing & review, incl. high-res sprue pics, codex flick-through and a few size comparisons with other 40k infantry & AoS Duardin models. I think they scale up quite nicely and aren‘t as big as some photoshopped size comparisons made them to be. Hearthkyn Warriors come on 28mm bases btw.
Thanks for the size comparison and continued informative articles.
Seems about as expected, a head shorter than actual people. That's pretty tall for a dwarf in my opinion.
Indeed. Thanks for the comparison, Stahly! I agree that they're pretty tall but scale creep is a thing and there isn't anything I can do about it short of 3d printing it all myself. They're less squats and more like thiccs as more 30mm Ogryn which honestly (despite the fluff discrepancy) is ok in the fluff. Regardless, I like two of the models not yet released and may pick them up eventually for RPG purposes.
I went back and forth on whether to get the army set but yesterdays army focus and the Trans-Hyperion Alliance scheme sold it to me at the last minute. Thanks to Stahly for the confirmation that the troops are on 28mm bases I can start on them.
So in this army box set you will get a total of 3 Iron kin heads, which I totally agree with you, it should have a few more.
Im planing to have a unit of 5 modelled as ironkin so hopefully I can dig a couple heads on the next kits coming in the future.
28mm bases not my favourite size since I was intending to use either 25mm or 32mm Necromunda bases but I can live with that.
Size wise the minis look ok to me.
Its now time to sit back and find some colours for these and its not going to be easy.
And I just checked this scheme and my god its pretty sweet.
So in this army box set you will get a total of 3 Iron kin heads, which I totally agree with you, it should have a few more.
Im planing to have a unit of 5 modelled as ironkin so hopefully I can dig a couple heads on the next kits coming in the future.
28mm bases not my favourite size since I was intending to use either 25mm or 32mm Necromunda bases but I can live with that.
Size wise the minis look ok to me.
Its now time to sit back and find some colours for these and its not going to be easy.
And I just checked this scheme and my god its pretty sweet.
If you’re uk based I’ll make you the same offer, I don’t plan on using any of my ironkin heads from this box at least. I will send you the ones from mine if you like.
So in this army box set you will get a total of 3 Iron kin heads, which I totally agree with you, it should have a few more.
Im planing to have a unit of 5 modelled as ironkin so hopefully I can dig a couple heads on the next kits coming in the future.
28mm bases not my favourite size since I was intending to use either 25mm or 32mm Necromunda bases but I can live with that.
Size wise the minis look ok to me.
Its now time to sit back and find some colours for these and its not going to be easy.
And I just checked this scheme and my god its pretty sweet.
If you’re uk based I’ll make you the same offer, I don’t plan on using any of my ironkin heads from this box at least. I will send you the ones from mine if you like.
I went back and forth on whether to get the army set but yesterdays army focus and the Trans-Hyperion Alliance scheme sold it to me at the last minute. Thanks to Stahly for the confirmation that the troops are on 28mm bases I can start on them.
I was in a similar boat. I had originally really no interest in them aesthetically, then they came out with a bunch of pictures of the Red scheme (Ymyr) which just completely changed the aesthetic of the army for me, so I ended up pre ordering a box.
This feels like one of the rare cases where GW really missed with it's faction focus paint scheme, normally those are usually among my favorites.
Ordered mine this morning from Darksphere. Great to see the sprues - the hearthkyn seem to have loads of options- love the pointing arm and the hand holding the axe.
Been busy all day so had no chance to do my preorder.
Went on GW site and saw all sold out so assumed I had missed out.
But I decided to check elemental games anyway and they still had stock!!!!
Looking at some comparisons elsewhere....the Leagues are sized differently to both Kharadron/Duardin, AND the Necromunda Squats? That's strange and disapointing
Nah they're about the same as the AoS ones and yes, because Necromunda is on a slightly different scale.
EDIT: if that is the combat patrol that's a pain in the arse because I can't say I really want the bezerks or another squad of bikes. I was hoping for the exosuits or the cool heavy weapon gunners. Thunderers? Not got a look at the codex yet, how viable are the bikers?
Olthannon wrote: Nah they're about the same as the AoS ones and yes, because Necromunda is on a slightly different scale.
EDIT: if that is the combat patrol that's a pain in the arse because I can't say I really want the bezerks or another squad of bikes. I was hoping for the exosuits or the cool heavy weapon gunners. Thunderers? Not got a look at the codex yet, how viable are the bikers?
Bikers are very good, because the rest of your army is slow as all balls without a transport or teleport, so a 12" biker unit with a 12" pregame move and ObSec is great for grabbing objectives early
Is it just me, or did all the Squat preordering knock out GW's website? I went to take a look (wasn't even gonna buy anything) and I got a 503 error that I've never seen before.
ZergSmasher wrote: Is it just me, or did all the Squat preordering knock out GW's website? I went to take a look (wasn't even gonna buy anything) and I got a 503 error that I've never seen before.
It's been doing it for a few days now. It has to do with Cloudflare.
Olthannon wrote: Nah they're about the same as the AoS ones and yes, because Necromunda is on a slightly different scale.
EDIT: if that is the combat patrol that's a pain in the arse because I can't say I really want the bezerks or another squad of bikes. I was hoping for the exosuits or the cool heavy weapon gunners. Thunderers? Not got a look at the codex yet, how viable are the bikers?
This is a really solid combat patrol. Between the limited boxset and 2x of these you have a super solid start to an army. The bikers are very solid. They are not super durable or output a ton of damage, but they are insanely fast (auto-advance 6, so you are going 18") and have an excellent stratagem for protection and can have searchlights for a stratagem to put a grudge token on a unit. They are also Obsec allowing you to nab some objectives super quickly.
If this is indeed the Combat Patrol: do the Berserkers come in a set of four? They were presented as a set of five in a WHC article.
Other than that this looks like both a good addition to the army set as well as a solid start on its own. All units are useful, and the character can be doubled as well. Not bad!
Edit: Can't speak for other regions, but on the German GW store the German army set was sold out early afternoon yesterday, and the English one is sold out as well by now (Sunday morning).
Olthannon wrote: Nah they're about the same as the AoS ones and yes, because Necromunda is on a slightly different scale.
EDIT: if that is the combat patrol that's a pain in the arse because I can't say I really want the bezerks or another squad of bikes. I was hoping for the exosuits or the cool heavy weapon gunners. Thunderers? Not got a look at the codex yet, how viable are the bikers?
Bikers are very good, because the rest of your army is slow as all balls without a transport or teleport, so a 12" biker unit with a 12" pregame move and ObSec is great for grabbing objectives early
Also heard on the Tabletop Tactics battle report that a unit of them can do a double pre-game move for a CP. 24" before the 1st turn !
Good thing you have no interest to charge with them...
If this is indeed the Combat Patrol: do the Berserkers come in a set of four? They were presented as a set of five in a WHC article.
Other than that this looks like both a good addition to the army set as well as a solid start on its own. All units are useful, and the character can be doubled as well. Not bad!
Edit: Can't speak for other regions, but on the German GW store the German army set was sold out early afternoon yesterday, and the English one is sold out as well by now (Sunday morning).
Berserkers are a set of five, as you’ve got the Mole Launcher. I mistook that for a second character as first, but it’s definitely the Mole Launcher.
Contents wise I agree it’s a pretty decent one. Rules entirely aside as ever for me, I always view Combat Patrols from the gifting point of view. A long term hangover from my Till Monkey days. This one is pretty nice. Certainly nothing in there looks particularly redundant after two copies, perhaps barring the Khal. Though, if you’ve not the Ltd Box, that goes to three copies, due to SC being made from the same kit, and weapon options.
Cheers everyone re:bikers. Good to know because I like those models, just I was hoping for either the buggy vehicle or something heavy in the combat patrol instead!
Seeing that combat patrol picture only reinforces how stupid the shooty berserker is. A plodding gunner with a plodding caddy in a squad of running melee fighters isn't what I'd call good visual design.
Malika2 wrote: Is it just me or are the new Squats about the size of regular humans nowadays?
Well, they're not dwarfs but evolved humans who are squat - which just means that they're packed tighter, denser, shorter and stockier. They just have to be 'shorter' than baseline humans, not comically so.
Malika2 wrote: Is it just me or are the new Squats about the size of regular humans nowadays?
Well, they're not dwarfs but evolved humans who are squat - which just means that they're packed tighter, denser, shorter and stockier. They just have to be 'shorter' than baseline humans, not comically so.
Not being called Dwarfs doesn't change that they're meant to be sci-fi Dwarfs.
Ok I think thats fine, I'd be comfortable using the Necromunda Squats alongside the Votann boys as long as they are in different squads. I think the Necro ones look like they are in a kind of pressure suit, as a way of explaining the extra bulk
Yeah the Squats look like they are in regular boots and clothes in their lower body whilst the Votan look like they are in high powered super armour. So a little height difference isn't too glaring. Also some of those are on "tactical rocks" which makes them appear taller
Great I think the Votann look perfectly fine alonside the bulkier Necromunda ones.
Scale is fine.
Combat Patrol content seems good for players that want to bulk the Army box or just want to buy multiple combat patrols to kickstart an army.
I will rather go for the missing units myself.
6 feet, not all bearded, nothing really dwarven on them. Good for random new xenos faction but as for being squats they just use name for marketing purpose. Sells better calling them squats.
Not sure if the picture with the Ultramarine is helping. It looks like the Guardsman's legs are bent while the Squat is mostly straight. Might just be the picture as I haven't seen the Death Korps models in person yet, but even if the new Squats are too tall, I don't think it's quite as bad as that picture makes it out.
They shouldn't be noticeably taller. The Cadian's height was one of their big problems from the start. They'd be slimmer and better proportioned like the Traitor Guardsmen, though.
6 feet, not all bearded, nothing really dwarven on them. Good for random new xenos faction but as for being squats they just use name for marketing purpose. Sells better calling them squats.
Apart from the scale creep that the new DKoK kit is not part of (because it is likely 5yrs old and anyway intentionally designed to scale to the 15yrs old Forge World models), notice that the IG soldier is standing in slightly flexed knees and the Squat is mid run, so likely as elongated as it gets.
Assuming that a human is 6' tall, that puts him at around 5', or one head shorter. Yes, that is not DnD dwarfs 4', but also consider that ratlings/halflings exist and they are already in the 4' scale with their models.
So with all that considered, I think they found a good scale slot. You are of course entitled to your own opinion.
6 feet, not all bearded, nothing really dwarven on them. Good for random new xenos faction but as for being squats they just use name for marketing purpose. Sells better calling them squats.
Apart from the scale creep that the new DKoK kit is not part of (because it is likely 5yrs old and anyway intentionally designed to scale to the 15yrs old Forge World models), notice that the IG soldier is standing in slightly flexed knees and the Squat is mid run, so likely as elongated as it gets.
Assuming that a human is 6' tall, that puts him at around 5', or one head shorter. Yes, that is not DnD dwarfs 4', but also consider that ratlings/halflings exist and they are already in the 4' scale with their models.
So with all that considered, I think they found a good scale slot. You are of course entitled to your own opinion.
GW themselves have said that the Leagues are meant to be 4' tall.
GW themselves have said that the Leagues are meant to be 4' tall.
Then they messed up the scaling or the Kriegers are less than five feet tall and Primaris Marines less than six.
Or different poses and levels of armour can make a noticable difference. None of those miniatures in that Krieg/HearthKyn/Primaris photo are standing straight.
I really don't mind the Kin being in the neighborhood of 5 feet tall. If they're just slightly shorter and stockier humans, that's good enough for me. Actually, maybe even preferable to them being shorter.
It's definitely strange that Jess would say that they're only 4 foot when they're clearly not...
Wow so they are as tall as kreig guardsman? That disgusting. Seriously who the hell thought dwarves in space should be the same height as imperial guard?
crumby_cataphract wrote: I really don't mind the Kin being in the neighborhood of 5 feet tall. If they're just slightly shorter and stockier humans, that's good enough for me. Actually, maybe even preferable to them being shorter.
It's definitely strange that Jess would say that they're only 4 foot when they're clearly not...
Frankly I would be absolutely okay with them being around 5', if they at least stuck to that and didn't contradict themselves.
A silly question but what does the Imperium officially call the Kin?
I mean the Kin call each other Kin because they are or feel related to each other, but surely the Imperium doesn't call them Kin? A League of Votann is their political organization, but not their species or subspecies designation. Squats is now a pejorative term and now apparently restricted to Necromunda.
Iracundus wrote: A silly question but what does the Imperium officially call the Kin?
I mean the Kin call each other Kin because they are or feel related to each other, but surely the Imperium doesn't call them Kin? A League of Votann is their political organization, but not their species or subspecies designation. Squats is now a pejorative term and now apparently restricted to Necromunda.
Squats is not a term restricted to Necromunda, it's (one of) the Imperial names for the Leagues.
It may have been mentioned already, but there is artwork of the "original" squat designs that appear in the codex. A nice call back to the original army and I guess evidence that those iterations of squats are still canon to 40k
GaroRobe wrote: It may have been mentioned already, but there is artwork of the "original" squat designs that appear in the codex. A nice call back to the original army and I guess evidence that those iterations of squats are still canon to 40k
I just came to comment on it, I just saw it.
A unit like this would be great, if it came to kt with the excuse that there are very old things in gallowdark.
GaroRobe wrote: It may have been mentioned already, but there is artwork of the "original" squat designs that appear in the codex. A nice call back to the original army and I guess evidence that those iterations of squats are still canon to 40k
Ah thats cool, which piece of art is it? I take it not the one of the Squat with the hoverboard haha.
You know, if there was a Squat expansion that included new units, I wouldn't mind a special character on a non hover trike (heavily updated of course) as a throwback to their "old ways".
I got a Blacktron space base for Christmas as a kid. I don't remember much white, but black and neon green? I think I need to get my hands on a box of space dwarfs and give that a try. I even have plenty of Tesseract Glow.
I'm really liking Mars Mission, Power Miners, and Rock Raiders - in that order.
Also going to throw up a "citation needed" on the 4ft Votann claim, I went back and looked through whatever sources (mostly WarCom) I could find for votann/squats and didn't see anything that would indicate a 4' avg height.
chaos0xomega wrote: I'm really liking Mars Mission, Power Miners, and Rock Raiders - in that order.
Also going to throw up a "citation needed" on the 4ft Votann claim, I went back and looked through whatever sources (mostly WarCom) I could find for votann/squats and didn't see anything that would indicate a 4' avg height.
