Balerion wrote: Oof, the paint job on that kasrkin is jarring. It's actually painful to look at for me.
Model itself looks cool.
Typical of current 'Eavy Metal style : loads of contrasty lining on every delimitation, then apply a second line of even more contrasty lining on some places to boost the image. If you have an image editor like photoshop or Gimp, you can achieve the same effect. take a photo, apply sharpen mask, with cursors maxed out. This should give the same effect. Beuuurk !
lord_blackfang wrote: So with the Sentinel now having symmetrical hardpoints, my money is on a variant with paired weapons, because GW cannot resist sticking more and more guns on everything.
Possible, but looks more like an auxiliary system hardpoint. Looks like an option for either a spotlight (something other than nightfighting rules?) or smoke grenade launcher. I see a single smoke grenade launcher on the top, so maybe all sentinels can still pop smoke once a game, but the 3-cell upgrade gives you multiples?
Spoiler:
The Adrian helmet ridge on Lady Creed is confusing me.
Pyroalchi wrote: While the sculpt is no beauty, I appreciate that they did not make Creed a 20 something aged supermodel.
I would appreciate it if they didn’t go to far extreme of making her a fat old lady with a bicycle helmet.
Brian Nelson described Creed as being "Bulldog-like" in both appearance and stance when sculpting him (I'd even say you can see a bit of Churchill in his face as well). If you want to sell that this person is the fruit of his loins she kinda has to have a bit of the family resemblance. Note, I do not mean that description as an insult- From that description GW gave, she is a bulwark of a woman like her father also with a meaningful name, "Ursula" is derived from the Latin for Bear, hammering home the strength motif further.
Balerion wrote: Oof, the paint job on that kasrkin is jarring. It's actually painful to look at for me.
Model itself looks cool.
Typical of current 'Eavy Metal style : loads of contrasty lining on every delimitation, then apply a second line of even more contrasty lining on some places to boost the image. If you have an image editor like photoshop or Gimp, you can achieve the same effect. take a photo, apply sharpen mask, with cursors maxed out. This should give the same effect. Beuuurk !
I think this one goes even beyond the usual 'Eavy Edge Highlight Metal style. Goodness me.
The new sentinel looks gorgeous (and big and girthy too, comparing it to the old sentinel I think this might be mounted on a 90mm dreadnought base)
The Stormtrooper image they used has striations on the lasgun, makes me think this is a 3D printed model they painted for promo usage before the sprues were finalized, which may explain the different paint job on the bases.
KillerAngel wrote: The Adrian helmet ridge on Lady Creed is confusing me.
I'm confused by the helmet as a whole. Without the helmet she looks suspiciously like Boris Yeltsin. With the helmet on all that healthy red around the nose is gone. I'm not saying there shouldn't be magic items in sci-fi settings, but a Helm of Sobering? Really?
Pyroalchi wrote: While the sculpt is no beauty, I appreciate that they did not make Creed a 20 something aged supermodel.
I would appreciate it if they didn’t go to far extreme of making her a fat old lady with a bicycle helmet.
Brian Nelson described Creed as being "Bulldog-like" in both appearance and stance when sculpting him (I'd even say you can see a bit of Churchill in his face as well). If you want to sell that this person is the fruit of his loins she kinda has to have a bit of the family resemblance. Note, I do not mean that description as an insult- From that description GW gave, she is a bulwark of a woman like her father also with a meaningful name, "Ursula" is derived from the Latin for Bear, hammering home the strength motif further.
Naming her "bear" fits her radiating "mama bear" energy.
GaroRobe wrote: The new sentinel looks great. The higher quality image did wonders.
But all I can think about is how easy the kasarkin backpack antennae will snap off
Really? I can't get over the fact that he's so scared he...uh... left evidence.
Whatever they were going for with that basing decision, it did NOT photograph well.
----
Curious about the weapon options on the Sentinel, as they're obviously the push for sales of the new kit. But is it just a missile launcher (and smaller grenade launcher) or Something Uniquely Named Variant of +/- 1 to Strength or AP? Why would you opt for a searchlight rather than more gun? Is that going to have special rules?
About the at the Sentinel, it looks sleeker, as was descibed by our fellow youtubers. It seems also more beefy, stronger, not only due to the added armour plates here and there. Out of curiosity, I have measured the base proportions (diameter / oblique height) from the picture on my screen, and compared it to those of a current 6 cm base (64mm real diameter, 4mm oblique height). It does not match, the new sentinel base seems bigger : I calculated about 80mm diameter. So maybe they decided to change the sentinel base to 80 as for primaris dreadnoughts !
So if the Kasrkin are scaled like adults instead of children, are we getting a new basic Cadian kit also? Because the old Cadians are gonna look like crap next to those Kasrkin.
Also does this mean we aren't getting a proper DKoK plastic release, or are we thinking we'll be getting both DKoK and Cadians in the future?
Ravajaxe wrote: About the at the Sentinel, it looks sleeker, as was descibed by our fellow youtubers. It seems also more beefy, stronger, not only due to the added armour plates here and there. Out of curiosity, I have measured the base proportions (diameter / oblique height) from the picture on my screen, and compared it to those of a current 6 cm base (64mm real diameter, 4mm oblique height). It does not match, the new sentinel base seems bigger : I calculated about 80mm diameter. So maybe they decided to change the sentinel base to 80 as for primaris dreadnoughts !
Hmm. That would make some sense, as I was mentally comparing it to the current sentinel and thinking how tiny that left side hatch is.
So was her dad, and it's been a hot minute since Cadia fell. Feel free to swap her head out for another one if you need a QT Twentysomething leading your guard regiment.
Ravajaxe wrote: About the at the Sentinel, it looks sleeker, as was descibed by our fellow youtubers. It seems also more beefy, stronger, not only due to the added armour plates here and there. Out of curiosity, I have measured the base proportions (diameter / oblique height) from the picture on my screen, and compared it to those of a current 6 cm base (64mm real diameter, 4mm oblique height). It does not match, the new sentinel base seems bigger : I calculated about 80mm diameter. So maybe they decided to change the sentinel base to 80 as for primaris dreadnoughts !
Did the same calculation, came to the same conclusion, great minds, etc etc. Here's hoping it'll be easier to paint up the driver and drop him into a scout sentinel than it was for the current kit.
Malika2 wrote: Is it just me or are those new Guardsmen about as tall as a Primaris Marine?
I scaled the image to make the base match a primaris marine and the kasrkin was noticeably taller, but again I suspect this is a mock-up that isn't actually to scale with the final product.
If you promise to buy me all these fancy new models, I'll put on a suit, set up a zoom call, and tell her how important hobbies are to keeping ones marriage fresh and alive.
Ravajaxe wrote: About the at the Sentinel, it looks sleeker, as was descibed by our fellow youtubers. It seems also more beefy, stronger, not only due to the added armour plates here and there. Out of curiosity, I have measured the base proportions (diameter / oblique height) from the picture on my screen, and compared it to those of a current 6 cm base (64mm real diameter, 4mm oblique height). It does not match, the new sentinel base seems bigger : I calculated about 80mm diameter. So maybe they decided to change the sentinel base to 80 as for primaris dreadnoughts !
Hmm. That would make some sense, as I was mentally comparing it to the current sentinel and thinking how tiny that left side hatch is.
Hey I was thinking the same.
I've redone the same measurment, not from the picture with blank background, but from the presentation video. I'm finding ~79 mm diameter, so this appears all but confirmed.
So I will probably have to rebase my old trusty sentinels (second edition metal) to what appears to be their new standard. Yikes !
Malika2 wrote: Is it just me or are those new Guardsmen about as tall as a Primaris Marine?
I scaled the image to make the base match a primaris marine and the kasrkin was noticeably taller, but again I suspect this is a mock-up that isn't actually to scale with the final product.
Kasrkin being equal or larger than Primaris would be a horrible mistake and I can't imagine them messing up that badly these days, especially given the care they've shown for proportions (mostly) of late, eg the Krieg etc.
JWBS wrote: Kasrkin being equal or larger than Primaris would be a horrible mistake and I can't imagine them messing up that badly these days, especially given the care they've shown for proportions (mostly) of late, eg the Krieg etc.
Agreed, but like I've been saying: the striations on the lasgun make me think these boys are slightly larger printed mock-ups not built from the final plastic sprue.
JWBS wrote: Kasrkin being equal or larger than Primaris would be a horrible mistake and I can't imagine them messing up that badly these days, especially given the care they've shown for proportions (mostly) of late, eg the Krieg etc.
Agreed, but like I've been saying: the striations on the lasgun make me think these boys are slightly larger printed mock-ups not built from the final plastic sprue.
Hopefully this is the case. Anyway, a comparison assuming same base size
Definitely not a fan of Ursula; o.g. Creed had a lot of cool touches that they've thrown out here
- the coat being off the shoulders instead of worn normally, the cross-draw holsters instead of guns being randomly stuck to the crotch, a face with a decent level of definition in it instead of a formless mass, cool facial expression, cool scar, cool cigar...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Just makes it seem like you're a weeb who can't take the joke mate
dan2026 wrote: So what is the difference between Kasrkin and Scions?
Personally, I assume that the Kasrkins will have the same ''Regiment'' keyword as the rest of the regular IG, they'll integrate better than Scions in an army of Guardsmen. That's assuming they treat Kasrkins as generic Grenadiers, and not something entirely unique to Cadia. That better integration, however, comes at the cost of Deepstrike, and quite possibly the possibility to take Hotshot Volleyguns. That also means they can auto wound on 6's.
I'm sure several of the resin and/or 3D printer folk will produce a young, slim, attractive, Miss Creedalike (who may well have forgotten her shirt too)
I like this one although she needs a bigger, snazzier hat 'liberated' from a commisar
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Just makes it seem like you're a weeb who can't take the joke mate
I must say I don't follow the criticism about Creed at all. It's one of the few Minis where I was like: wow, that one is really great and full of character. And I rarely feel that way about models that aren't from a faction I collect. Especially the helmeted version looks like... Everything that is 40K.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Or we can behave like adults and not let someone else's enjoyment of a thing detract from our own.
dan2026 wrote: So what is the difference between Kasrkin and Scions?
Personally, I assume that the Kasrkins will have the same ''Regiment'' keyword as the rest of the regular IG, they'll integrate better than Scions in an army of Guardsmen. That's assuming they treat Kasrkins as generic Grenadiers, and not something entirely unique to Cadia. That better integration, however, comes at the cost of Deepstrike, and quite possibly the possibility to take Hotshot Volleyguns. That also means they can auto wound on 6's.
But that's all speculation/how I would do it.
Kasrkin have been soft-confirmed as Cadian locked units. Seem to also be Scout move rather than Deep Strike.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Well now I'm buying her and starting a MCGA army, they will Make Cadia Great Again
I assume that the reintroduction of Kasrkin points to the idea that each regiment might get a "grenadier" type unit at some point in the future, which begs the question of whats going to happen with militarum tempestus. Makes the MT as the supposed "elite of the elite" feel a good bit less elite/special if DKoK Grenadiers and Cadian Kasrkin get the same kit and comparable statlines/rules.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Well now I'm buying her and starting a MCGA army, they will Make Cadia Great Again
"We will build a big, beautiful wall to keep Chaos out. Also, I'm increasing conscription. The recruits are needed for the wall."
chaos0xomega wrote: I assume that the reintroduction of Kasrkin points to the idea that each regiment might get a "grenadier" type unit at some point in the future, which begs the question of whats going to happen with militarum tempestus. Makes the MT as the supposed "elite of the elite" feel a good bit less elite/special if DKoK Grenadiers and Cadian Kasrkin get the same kit and comparable statlines/rules.
MT's are the elite of the elite in the sense that individual Scions are ''basic'' troops of the MT, whereas Kasrkins and Grenadiers are rarer and do no represent the average Guardsman.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: We’re terribly sorry Ms Creed, but you’re just not attractive enough to Weebs, so I’m afraid we can’t have you as the figurehead for Cadia.
I literally choked on my drink laughing at this. Thanks.
I laughed quite hard as well, when I realized she looks like a grey haired Donald Trump.
Cannot unsee.
This is actually really unfortunate. This is a great leap forward for representation, and it is going to get co-opted by that crowd now.
We already have enough trouble with people who like the "Death Korps," if you know what I mean.
Well now I'm buying her and starting a MCGA army, they will Make Cadia Great Again
"We will build a big, beautiful wall to keep Chaos out. Also, I'm increasing conscription. The recruits are needed for the wall."
"Its going to be a beautiful thing. Tremendous. And we're going to win bigly."
chaos0xomega wrote: I assume that the reintroduction of Kasrkin points to the idea that each regiment might get a "grenadier" type unit at some point in the future, which begs the question of whats going to happen with militarum tempestus. Makes the MT as the supposed "elite of the elite" feel a good bit less elite/special if DKoK Grenadiers and Cadian Kasrkin get the same kit and comparable statlines/rules.
By "grenadier" I take it you mean a special unit (or more) that is specific to a particular regiment, and not actual Stormtrooper equivalents? It doesn't make much sense for Catachans to have those, for instance. All that carapace armor messes with your ability to show off your killer abs.
Sotahullu wrote: I actually like this Creed (although helmet is goofy).
That helmet tho. I only think of Hans Georg Schultz. Every. Time.
It's perfect.
So I have to say, I am really impressed with the models thus far. I was hoping for Catachans, but plastic anything for the guard will be welcomed and a new Sentinel is great. The old ones were...not that great looking in my opinion. The rotary grenade launcher is just aces and will fit right into my Catachans!
Sotahullu wrote: I actually like this Creed (although helmet is goofy).
That helmet tho. I only think of Hans Georg Schultz. Every. Time.
It's perfect.
So I have to say, I am really impressed with the models thus far. I was hoping for Catachans, but plastic anything for the guard will be welcomed and a new Sentinel is great. The old ones were...not that great looking in my opinion. The rotary grenade launcher is just aces and will fit right into my Catachans!
Olthannon wrote: Although I was hoping for totally new minis as well. I do like this new kit the Cadians have on, it looks easier to convert into another regiment.
Whatever happened to the rumour of "2 other regiments and minis etc" is that still missing alongside the tank?
There must be more models yet to be shown because there's definitely Rough Riders from that rumour engine.
I am guessing this was a super early leak, similar to the Horus Heresy box last summer. I wouldn't expect to see guard launch for preorder anytime before October 2022 at the earliest.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I was hoping for a whole new style of guardsmen rather than "lol, Cadians" again, but I suppose they didn't want to leave the Cadians hanging.
The long and accurate rumour list states there will be two other regiments released (might have even meant new but idk, equally could have meant classics rereleased).
Olthannon wrote: Although I was hoping for totally new minis as well. I do like this new kit the Cadians have on, it looks easier to convert into another regiment.
Whatever happened to the rumour of "2 other regiments and minis etc" is that still missing alongside the tank?
There must be more models yet to be shown because there's definitely Rough Riders from that rumour engine.
They weren't all supposed to come at once.
Also, this:
Spoiler:
It's all "in the pipeline", meaning it could be now or a year from now or two years from now.
Olthannon wrote: Although I was hoping for totally new minis as well. I do like this new kit the Cadians have on, it looks easier to convert into another regiment.
Whatever happened to the rumour of "2 other regiments and minis etc" is that still missing alongside the tank?
There must be more models yet to be shown because there's definitely Rough Riders from that rumour engine.
I am guessing this was a super early leak, similar to the Horus Heresy box last summer. I wouldn't expect to see guard launch for preorder anytime before October 2022 at the earliest.
That doesn't seem likely. They happily ignored the 'super early' HH leak for a year or more.
I both do and don't like the new Ursula model. I think it's a cool idea, and a quality looking model, but at the same time it feels like it's too heavily reliant on the previous creed. Like Ceed having the cigars, double laspistols, and coat over his shoulders all gave him his own unique feel and character, but there's not really anything particular about to give this new character her own sense of identity, it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I both do and don't like the new Ursula model. I think it's a cool idea, and a quality looking model, but at the same time it feels like it's too heavily reliant on the previous creed. Like Ceed having the cigars, double laspistols, and coat over his shoulders all gave him his own sense of being his own unique feel, but there's not really anything particular about to give this new character her own sense of identity, it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff" without having her own interesting quirks too.
This is my issue, its just lazy
The idea of having her be Creed 2.0 is dumb enough but literally giving her his gear is just icing on the cake of lame
She should have been brand new, like make her the descendant of one of the escapees from Cadia and she is furious her people's planef fell. Hell make her like a baby that was on the last ship out and has dedicated her life to fighting against the Imperium's enemies. She could hold Creeds teachings in high regard and pattern her command style off him
Mentlegen324 wrote: I both do and don't like the new Ursula model. I think it's a cool idea, and a quality looking model, but at the same time it feels like it's too heavily reliant on the previous creed. Like Ceed having the cigars, double laspistols, and coat over his shoulders all gave him his own unique feel and character, but there's not really anything particular about to give this new character her own sense of identity, it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
Yeah, it could be an interesting concept, that of Creed's kid picking up his mantel, but in terms of personality she seems kind of dull. You could just use her as a generic commander choice and it wouldn't seem out of place. In fact, I thought she was the replacement for the IG commander at first. Wearing her father's coat was a neat idea that ties into the aforementioned concept, but it's just not enough.
It would have been more interesting if she had, I dunno, a big ol' rifle instead of two pistols, or a sword cane. Or both. Maybe drinking from a bottle of wine. Creed was a smoker, so why not make her a drunk as a vice?
Mentlegen324 wrote: ... it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
2x210 wrote: The idea of having her be Creed 2.0 is dumb enough but literally giving her his gear is just icing on the cake of lame
What if that's the point? What if it's a commander taking on the trappings of Creed - even the name - in a propaganda effort, and that Creed never had a daughter but it's been so long since the Fall of Cadia, and all the records are gone, and Creed himself is gone, so no one will argue against the situation.
I prefer the helmet, but I why not make it a Cadian helmet?
I would assume it's something she's picked up off a battlefield somewhere along the way.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mentlegen324 wrote: I both do and don't like the new Ursula model. I think it's a cool idea, and a quality looking model, but at the same time it feels like it's too heavily reliant on the previous creed. Like Ceed having the cigars, double laspistols, and coat over his shoulders all gave him his own unique feel and character, but there's not really anything particular about to give this new character her own sense of identity, it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
On the flipside, if you have the original Creed model you can carry on using it instead of Ursula, since they have the same gear...
Mentlegen324 wrote: ... it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
2x210 wrote: The idea of having her be Creed 2.0 is dumb enough but literally giving her his gear is just icing on the cake of lame
What if that's the point? What if it's a commander taking on the trappings of Creed - even the name - in a propaganda effort, and that Creed never had a daughter but it's been so long since the Fall of Cadia, and all the records are gone, and Creed himself is gone, so no one will argue against the situation.
I have no issue with the idea. It's just that basing her identity almost entirely on being "Creed" again is in itself not enough to make her that interesting. I think wearing his ruined coat is a neat way to remember him and show a link to that important piece of Cadia, but having his laspistols as well while not having some own unique aspect to make her feel like her own person makes it feel a bit lacking. There are so many things they could have done to make it more than just Creed-but-not; some sort of bionics or scars and medals to show her supposed skill and combat history, maybe a personal memento of Cadia, some elaborate shoulder pads or gauntlets or boots to give her a bit more of a memorable uniform etc Like, more like this than just "Creed" again:
Mentlegen324 wrote: ... it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
2x210 wrote: The idea of having her be Creed 2.0 is dumb enough but literally giving her his gear is just icing on the cake of lame
What if that's the point? What if it's a commander taking on the trappings of Creed - even the name - in a propaganda effort, and that Creed never had a daughter but it's been so long since the Fall of Cadia, and all the records are gone, and Creed himself is gone, so no one will argue against the situation.
I have no issue with the idea. It's just that basing her identity almost entirely on being "Creed" again is in itself not enough to make her that interesting. I think wearing his ruined coat is a neat way to remember him and show a link to that important piece of Cadia, but having his laspistols as well while not having some own unique aspect to make her feel like her own person makes it feel a bit lacking. There are so many things they could have done to make it more than just Creed-but-not; some sort of bionics or scars and medals to show her supposed skill and combat history, maybe a personal memento of Cadia, some elaborate shoulder pads or gauntlets or boots to give her a bit more of a memorable uniform etc Like, more like this than just "Creed" again:
Honestly the article even hints directly at what HBMC is saying.
Wait, could that be her father’s battered old greatcoat? But wasn’t he wearing that when Cadia fell?
Us steeped in Warhammer 40k lore know that not only was he wearing it when Cadia fell, but Trazyn scooped him up when Cadia fell. For that to be his actual greatcoat is nearly if not completely impossible. It's far more likely for her to be an imposter with fake gear running/propped up by a propaganda campaign. Bonus points if they reveal a new guy carrying a tattered flag... oh... is that... the very same one Color Sergeant Kell held??? AMAZING!
Some guy in the morale branch probably got extra rations for coming up with this idea.
Mentlegen324 wrote: ... it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
2x210 wrote: The idea of having her be Creed 2.0 is dumb enough but literally giving her his gear is just icing on the cake of lame
What if that's the point? What if it's a commander taking on the trappings of Creed - even the name - in a propaganda effort, and that Creed never had a daughter but it's been so long since the Fall of Cadia, and all the records are gone, and Creed himself is gone, so no one will argue against the situation.
I have no issue with the idea. It's just that basing her identity almost entirely on being "Creed" again is in itself not enough to make her that interesting. I think wearing his ruined coat is a neat way to remember him and show a link to that important piece of Cadia, but having his laspistols as well while not having some own unique aspect to make her feel like her own person makes it feel a bit lacking. There are so many things they could have done to make it more than just Creed-but-not; some sort of bionics or scars and medals to show her supposed skill and combat history, maybe a personal memento of Cadia, some elaborate shoulder pads or gauntlets or boots to give her a bit more of a memorable uniform etc Like, more like this than just "Creed" again:
Honestly the article even hints directly at what HBMC is saying.
Wait, could that be her father’s battered old greatcoat? But wasn’t he wearing that when Cadia fell?
Us steeped in Warhammer 40k lore know that not only was he wearing it when Cadia fell, but Trazyn scooped him up when Cadia fell. For that to be his actual greatcoat is nearly if not completely impossible. It's far more likely for her to be an imposter with fake gear running/propped up by a propaganda campaign. Bonus points if they reveal a new guy carrying a tattered flag... oh... is that... the very same one Color Sergeant Kell held??? AMAZING!
Some guy in the morale branch probably got extra rations for coming up with this idea.
That's a good point, actually. It would be funny if there's a bit of fluff where Trazyn is chatting with Creed over tea (he seems be the sort of Necron to have a conversation with his "guests") and brings up Creed's daughter, and Creed's like "What? I don't have a bloody daughter. What you are talking about you demented tin can?"
CSM will almost certainly not land in June at this point, it'll be preorders go up last weekend in June as a guess, there's HH on the 18th, 2 sigmar books to get out for their recent box set, a couple of specialist odds and sods awaiting and CSM will likely be a multi-week release as a guess.
Personally, I think Squats will be the pre-christmas November release slot, WE will end up in Jan and then guard/Daemons sandwiching a September marine release. At this stage I think the Marine 2.0 thing is actually 10th 1.0.
Why do you think Squats will be so late if we're already getting rules previews now?
chaos0xomega wrote: By "grenadier" I take it you mean a special unit (or more) that is specific to a particular regiment, and not actual Stormtrooper equivalents? It doesn't make much sense for Catachans to have those, for instance. All that carapace armor messes with your ability to show off your killer abs.
This.
While it's possible for other types of unique named units for regiments, something like Catachan Devils, basically veteran Catachans with similar rules to Ork Kommandos. Not every named regiment has this luxury and I doubt GW are willing to spend the resources on every named regiment.
Kasrkin wrote: Not a fan of these new Kasrkin. Not a fan at all. They simply do not look correct.
What's wrong with them?
They look pretty great to me - almost enough for me to buy some jus to fiddle with. (Though I will probably just wait to see if vostroyans get a similar treatment next decade)
Kasrkin wrote: Not a fan of these new Kasrkin. Not a fan at all. They simply do not look correct.
Compared to the metal ones the shoulder pads and knee pads are less exaggerated, the helmet is a tough more rounded in places, and the rifle has a scope now.
I think they are pretty faithful (although upgraded with new design and moulding tech) reproductions of the originals. And in plastic!
That said (and as pointed out earlier this picture may be of a pre-production mini), the helmet seems a little small. Poor IG heads - from one extreme to another.
Kasrkin wrote: Not a fan of these new Kasrkin. Not a fan at all. They simply do not look correct.
What's wrong with them?
They look pretty great to me - almost enough for me to buy some jus to fiddle with. (Though I will probably just wait to see if vostroyans get a similar treatment next decade)
Same as with primaris, this dude actually has human anatomy, that is, doesn't miss half of his spine, has normal fists instead of ones bigger than his head under helmet, and doesn't have pelvis wider than his shoulders. I am still amazed GW old, ugly 'heroic' style can mess with multiple brains to a point they only accept something looking like a mix of gorilla and orangutan in proportions as 'correct', or in some really terminal cases, to corrupt it to such degree they start screeching seeing people enjoying new, actually correct and good looking, minis. Go figure
Well done Irby! Your endlessly obsessive nitpicky mind who can't start a post without some variation of "Nu uh! You're wrong!" found a whole miniature, when clearly I was referring to these and these and these and especially these. Y'know, all the blatantly obvious examples where they don't use the rail but instead attach the scope to something else. But gold star. You were "right" again.
Same as with primaris, this dude actually has human anatomy, that is, doesn't miss half of his spine, has normal fists instead of ones bigger than his head under helmet, and doesn't have pelvis wider than his shoulders. I am still amazed GW old, ugly 'heroic' style can mess with multiple brains to a point they only accept something looking like a mix of gorilla and orangutan in proportions as 'correct', or in some really terminal cases, to corrupt it to such degree they start screeching seeing people enjoying new, actually correct and good looking, minis. Go figure
Nobody is 'screeching', and little is gained by waxing hyperbolic about negative comments.
And yes, while the point can certainly be made that some of the problem is people being used to 'heroic' proportions, the flip side of the argument would be that those heroic proportions have been used for so long because they work better for miniatures. Realistic proportions look more, well, realistic... but they're just not as impressive at scale.
I've been staring at the new Kasrkin trying to work out why I don't like it when it's clearly a perfectly competent sculpt, and I think it's a combination of the missing 'chunkiness' that gave the old models their air of bulky implacableness, and a myrid little details that on their own wouldn't be an issue but all combine to make the whole not work as well. The goggles are a slightly different shape, the air filters are larger, the helmet more formfitting and cut differently around the sides of the head, and so on. The end result is a nice looking, generic sci-fi figure that just doesn't seem to have the same character as the metal models it replaces.
Having said that, I suspect that anyone who never saw the original models, or those for whom more realistic proportions are a bigger deal, will be more than happy with them.
Damn right I'm mad. Mad at someone who continues to show a staggering level of intellectual dishonesty and posts made in bad faith at every possible juncture. It's what Irby does. He goes hunting for absolute statements just to call people out. It's why most* of his posts start with some variation of "You're wrong". It's bizarre.
Really though I should be thankful. He's taught me to be more careful with my speech.
*And why I tend to say "most" and not "all", otherwise he'd jump in with a example of when it didn't happen.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I both do and don't like the new Ursula model. I think it's a cool idea, and a quality looking model, but at the same time it feels like it's too heavily reliant on the previous creed. Like Ceed having the cigars, double laspistols, and coat over his shoulders all gave him his own unique feel and character, but there's not really anything particular about to give this new character her own sense of identity, it's instead near completely based around "Creed's Daughter with Creeds stuff to replace Creed" without having her own interesting quirks too.
Yeah, it could be an interesting concept, that of Creed's kid picking up his mantel, but in terms of personality she seems kind of dull.
You could just use her as a generic commander choice and it wouldn't seem out of place. In fact, I thought she was the replacement for the IG commander at first.
Wearing her father's coat was a neat idea that ties into the aforementioned concept, but it's just not enough.
It would have been more interesting if she had, I dunno, a big ol' rifle instead of two pistols, or a sword cane. Or both.
Maybe drinking from a bottle of wine. Creed was a smoker, so why not make her a drunk as a vice?
I get that it's a miniatures - based hobby, so gear is an important part of a character's personality... But when did it become the sole defining expression of a character's personality? Because "Gear" is pretty much all we know about her personality. We haven't seen her statline or her special rules, so we can't compare those to Papa Creed yet, but perhaps those will be places where we see divergences from Creed Senior...
Not to mention that we don't have her actual fluff yet either; we don't know how old she was when Papa Creed bit the dust, or how she escaped from Cadia. The article states she earned her rank, but we don't know anything about what is thought of her by the various factions of the Imperium: she's proven herself to the survivors of Cadia... But has she proven herself to the Ecclesiarchy? The High Lords? The Inquisition? Guilliman?
I think it's a little too early to make statements about a character's personality, or lack thereof.
Is the model visually distinct enough from Papa Creed? Possibly not...But this model seems to be carrying a hand weapon or rod of office that was not listed on Papa Creed's data sheet, she appears to be a non-smoker, and she has a different draw style than Creed Sr. The fact that her melee weapons are in hand as opposed to her just chillin for a smoke likely indicates that she's comfortable with enemies in her face in a way that her father's model did not. Fluff notwithstanding, when I look at her, I see a wizened warrior leading from the front; when I look at him, I see someone who is more at home telling other people what to do while he sits back and smokes because his best days of actual fighting are already in the rear view.
Same as with primaris, this dude actually has human anatomy, that is, doesn't miss half of his spine, has normal fists instead of ones bigger than his head under helmet, and doesn't have pelvis wider than his shoulders. I am still amazed GW old, ugly 'heroic' style can mess with multiple brains to a point they only accept something looking like a mix of gorilla and orangutan in proportions as 'correct', or in some really terminal cases, to corrupt it to such degree they start screeching seeing people enjoying new, actually correct and good looking, minis. Go figure
Nobody is 'screeching', and little is gained by waxing hyperbolic about negative comments.
And yes, while the point can certainly be made that some of the problem is people being used to 'heroic' proportions, the flip side of the argument would be that those heroic proportions have been used for so long because they work better for miniatures. Realistic proportions look more, well, realistic... but they're just not as impressive at scale.
I've been staring at the new Kasrkin trying to work out why I don't like it when it's clearly a perfectly competent sculpt, and I think it's a combination of the missing 'chunkiness' that gave the old models their air of bulky implacableness, and a myrid little details that on their own wouldn't be an issue but all combine to make the whole not work as well. The goggles are a slightly different shape, the air filters are larger, the helmet more formfitting and cut differently around the sides of the head, and so on. The end result is a nice looking, generic sci-fi figure that just doesn't seem to have the same character as the metal models it replaces.
Having said that, I suspect that anyone who never saw the original models, or those for whom more realistic proportions are a bigger deal, will be more than happy with them.
I've preferred more realistically scaled models since the early 00's when GW released the LotR range. It took me a little while to realise why I liked LotR models more than WHFB and 40k models, even though LotR models tend to not look as good in photos because the smaller faces are damned near impossible to paint well enough to look good in a zoomed in photo, on the table top I think they look much nicer. I also preferred the 6th edition Bretonnian models to the 7th edition ones which had the more bobble headed proportions. I dunno why "hero scale" became so popular, I'd probably guess that it's just easier to sculpt more detail onto a big head and big hands on a 28mm model, especially back in the day and especially when models are actually 25 to 28mm instead of 32mm like they are now.
Each to their own I guess. I don't think perfectly realistically scaled models are the ultimate, but somewhere between realistic and bobble heads is good. GW have been shifting in that direction, the recent vampires have been better scaled also.
That said, there is something I prefer about the older Kasrkin in this case... I'm struggling to put my finger on it but I think it's the shape of the head/helmet that isn't working for me. The old helmet was a bit broader at the top, the winged skull was bigger, and the brow line turned down at the edges of the helmet making the eyes a different shape.
it is hard to tell but the Kasrkin look off for some reason
looking again at the first pic that has the other models in the back I think it is the combination of the helmets and shoulder pads
the helmets have more rounded design, like older real life metal helmets and are too close the face compared old plastic cadians
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I dunno why "hero scale" became so popular, I'd probably guess that it's just easier to sculpt more detail onto a big head and big hands on a 28mm model, especially back in the day and especially when models are actually 25 to 28mm instead of 32mm like they are now.
Because not only was it easier to sculpt but also easier to cast in plastic (back than when you made a master model 2 times or 4 times bigger to get the real sized negativ mould in a hand crafted process), and calling this hero scale sound better than "not being able to do better"
hence the old metal Cadians/Catachans look better than the plastic ones but the argument back than was that at least he plastic was cheaper by a lot
and over time, with GW became popular their models became standard, 28mm instead of 25mm and "hero" scale plastic instead of realsitc scale metal
H.B.M.C. wrote: *does double take*
Great googly moogly!
The scope is attached to a rail! Not even Marines manage that.
when people design guns who have no clue how guns work
I don't know what is worse, Marines not being able to mount equipment on the mountin rail or Marine pistols coming with folded stocks
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I dunno why "hero scale" became so popular, I'd probably guess that it's just easier to sculpt more detail onto a big head and big hands on a 28mm model, especially back in the day and especially when models are actually 25 to 28mm instead of 32mm like they are now.
Because not only was it easier to sculpt but also easier to cast in plastic (back than when you made a master model 2 times or 4 times bigger to get the real sized negativ mould in a hand crafted process), and calling this hero scale sound better than "not being able to do better"
hence the old metal Cadians/Catachans look better than the plastic ones but the argument back than was that at least he plastic was cheaper by a lot
and over time, with GW became popular their models became standard, 28mm instead of 25mm and "hero" scale plastic instead of realsitc scale metal
One thing I find kind of funny is that in other forms of art, "heroic scale" is the opposite, the head gets smaller (or stays the same) and the body gets bigger. Children have large heads relative to their bodies, and a "hero" would make a regular adult look a bit like a child by accentuating the natural proportional difference between adults and children.
Michelangelo's David is an exception in that he has a big head, but my understanding is that's because the artist wanted to portray David as being youthful rather than a Herculean hero type figure (I've also heard it's because he was designed to be viewed from below, but given where he was going to be mounted originally high up on a cathedral I think his head still would have looked oversized, and his hand which is down by his hips is also oversized).
But hero scale in wargaming is where your adults look like children because they're sculpted with children's proportions, lol.
That said, there is something I prefer about the older Kasrkin in this case... I'm struggling to put my finger on it but I think it's the shape of the head/helmet that isn't working for me. The old helmet was a bit broader at the top, the winged skull was bigger, and the brow line turned down at the edges of the helmet making the eyes a different shape.
The only thing I actively dislike are the ankles / lower shin area but that might be just this one model. They look strange. The kneepads are worse than before too, and that bit of leather under the pad isn't working for me, but the knees aren't awful. Everything else seems fair to good.
kodos wrote: Because not only was it easier to sculpt but also easier to cast in plastic (back than when you made a master model 2 times or 4 times bigger to get the real sized negativ mould in a hand crafted process), and calling this hero scale sound better than "not being able to do better"
That's a slightly simplistic and negative take on it, though. It's not just that it's easier to cast and sculpt, but also makes for more durable models. 'Heroically' scaled weapons are more durable, particularly back when they were made from lead, but require the hands to be oversized in order to hold them. Oversized hands mean the head also has to be oversized, or the models all just look gorillas. From there, everything else gets enlarged or thickened to keep the model looking something vaguely approaching human, if a stylised, slightly chibi version of it.
Additionally, having weapons oversized makes for easier identification from across the table, and as someone else mentioned a couple of posts back, the exaggerated facial features are easier for casual painters.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: One thing I find kind of funny is that in other forms of art, "heroic scale" is the opposite, the head gets smaller (or stays the same) and the body gets bigger. Children have large heads relative to their bodies, and a "hero" would make a regular adult look a bit like a child by accentuating the natural proportional difference between adults and children.
Michelangelo's David is an exception in that he has a big head, but my understanding is that's because the artist wanted to portray David as being youthful rather than a Herculean hero type figure (I've also heard it's because he was designed to be viewed from below, but given where he was going to be mounted originally high up on a cathedral I think his head still would have looked oversized, and his hand which is down by his hips is also oversized)..
David is out of proportion because it was meant to be mounted on top of the roof and given the size of the statue and the height of the building, he would have looked right from below (combined with being portrayed as a youthful type)
this is something we find a lot on statues that were meant to be mounted on churches, longer bodies with oversized heads so they would look normal from below
and agree on the other hero scale, as the head does not grow as much compared to the body and when you train your body the head stays the same while the muscles around grow, so a smaller head but broad body makes a person look stronger (this is specially seen on some later greek art (hellenistic style), were they went away from a realistic portrayal to oversized heroic one)
this is also why old plastic Space Marines look off, the head is way too big compared to the body hence why Primaris kept the same sized heads
CSM will almost certainly not land in June at this point, it'll be preorders go up last weekend in June as a guess, there's HH on the 18th, 2 sigmar books to get out for their recent box set, a couple of specialist odds and sods awaiting and CSM will likely be a multi-week release as a guess.
Personally, I think Squats will be the pre-christmas November release slot, WE will end up in Jan and then guard/Daemons sandwiching a September marine release. At this stage I think the Marine 2.0 thing is actually 10th 1.0.
Why do you think Squats will be so late if we're already getting rules previews now?
Rules wise we've seen the stat line of the basic trooper and that's it right? But the article referred to "find out more in the coming months" so it's not just round the corner. They previewed the base stats before the chaos legionary profile and CSM are still nowhere to be seen either.
CSM models will likely be July, they don't tend to do big range refreshes for one system back to back, so that's August out. September is the reasonable earliest for Squats, but I suspect putting them out before guard/Daemons will probably be a bad PR move (so quite likely).
kodos wrote: Because not only was it easier to sculpt but also easier to cast in plastic (back than when you made a master model 2 times or 4 times bigger to get the real sized negativ mould in a hand crafted process), and calling this hero scale sound better than "not being able to do better"
That's a slightly simplistic and negative take on it, though. It's not just that it's easier to cast and sculpt, but also makes for more durable models.
we had GW models with hands bigger than the heads by a time other manufacturer were able to make proper scaled models were heads and hands were scaled to match
and yes, there was a learning process with the first models in plastic being mono-pose one piece models that allows different sculpts than multi-pose multi-piece models
there was a reason for it why you would to it, specially to not have weapons that break easily, but GW models had a time when they simply were bad sculpted and "heroic" was used as an excuse (just compare the Dark Elves that were made around the same the Perry Empire models were made) and the only reason why it was accepted was because the plastic replacement was way cheaper than the metal models
CSM will almost certainly not land in June at this point, it'll be preorders go up last weekend in June as a guess, there's HH on the 18th, 2 sigmar books to get out for their recent box set, a couple of specialist odds and sods awaiting and CSM will likely be a multi-week release as a guess.
Personally, I think Squats will be the pre-christmas November release slot, WE will end up in Jan and then guard/Daemons sandwiching a September marine release. At this stage I think the Marine 2.0 thing is actually 10th 1.0.
Why do you think Squats will be so late if we're already getting rules previews now?
Rules wise we've seen the stat line of the basic trooper and that's it right? But the article referred to "find out more in the coming months" so it's not just round the corner. They previewed the base stats before the chaos legionary profile and CSM are still nowhere to be seen either.
CSM models will likely be July, they don't tend to do big range refreshes for one system back to back, so that's August out. September is the reasonable earliest for Squats, but I suspect putting them out before guard/Daemons will probably be a bad PR move (so quite likely).
I'm sure Squats will release as a big Sisters / Templars -style army box toward the end of the year, with a codex and a few models, with the full release not until 2023, after all the 'old' armies have been updated.
Lady Creedence does not look like a bad ass. Ursula Creed does.
Ursula looks like Clare Balding with a powersword. She looks like she'd take a running start at kicking Abaddon so hard in the tadger for blowing up Cadia that his groin plate would shatter like the planet's crust.
Maybe Cawl will make her a Blackstone boot just for that purpose.
Ravajaxe wrote: Out of curiosity, I have measured the base proportions (diameter / oblique height) from the picture on my screen, and compared it to those of a current 6 cm base (64mm real diameter, 4mm oblique height). It does not match, the new sentinel base seems bigger : I calculated about 80mm diameter. So maybe they decided to change the sentinel base to 80 as for primaris dreadnoughts !
God, I hope not. That would be patently absurd, and would make countless old ones invalid. Unfortunately, this just makes it more likely, because GW's got to GW.
I really like the Ursula Creed model. She looks very bit the no nonsense, tough as boot leather and can take the worst thrown at them and walk it off attitude that sums up the Guard and exactly the type of person you'd expect to lead the remains of Cadia.
Dislike the helm, but it'd look goofy on anyone in my opinion.
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
Posture and jowly face make it look like an overweight character to me but maybe it's just clothing bulk. I've got no idea where this "badass" thing is coming from though.
Kasrkin wrote: Not a fan of these new Kasrkin. Not a fan at all. They simply do not look correct.
Compared to the metal ones the shoulder pads and knee pads are less exaggerated, the helmet is a tough more rounded in places, and the rifle has a scope now.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I really don't see the problem. I think its a good update to the kasrkin line.
I would like them to update these guys too, but I guess Scions have that covered? Still prefer them though.
Olthannon wrote: Lady Creedence does not look like a bad ass. Ursula Creed does.
Ursula looks like Clare Balding with a powersword. She looks like she'd take a running start at kicking Abaddon so hard in the tadger for blowing up Cadia that his groin plate would shatter like the planet's crust.
Maybe Cawl will make her a Blackstone boot just for that purpose.
The best thing about the new creed model is the helmet version and even there i have questions.
the rest of it. i dunno.
Not just tactical rocks but outright tactical rubble pile, which just screams Sniper fodder.
The face is... it exists, lets leave it at that.
Thankfully you can replace the scepter with binoculars.
The kasrkin look awesome though.
Not so sure about the sentinel, it looks a bit too much like a amiriger, too rounded for guard.
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
Posture and jowly face make it look like an overweight character to me but maybe it's just clothing bulk. I've got no idea where this "badass" thing is coming from though.
But cigar smoking Ursarkar Creed who was based on big fat bastard Winston Churchill, he was famously asthma free, right?
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
Posture and jowly face make it look like an overweight character to me but maybe it's just clothing bulk. I've got no idea where this "badass" thing is coming from though.
But cigar smoking Ursarkar Creed who was based on big fat bastard Winston Churchill, he was famously asthma free, right?
Creed didn't look like a front line combatant though, which is what you're claiming Ursula looks like. If I recall correctly, the fluff stated that Creed would command from the back most of the time and only rarely took to the field. And even then most of the fighting was done by Kell, who did look like a fighter.
I like Ursula Creed, she looks like a powerfully built, seasoned officer- good to see a variety of female forms model wise. The Kasrkin seem like a really nice updated design, slimmer and sharp - the proportions look pretty good to me.
I'm guessing guard will be after squats as they say a few other armies have their time in the sun before the guard arrive so probably autumn?
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
Posture and jowly face make it look like an overweight character to me but maybe it's just clothing bulk. I've got no idea where this "badass" thing is coming from though.
But cigar smoking Ursarkar Creed who was based on big fat bastard Winston Churchill, he was famously asthma free, right?
He looked like a grizzly grumpy tactician type, and he had a gnarly scar which suggested he'd at least been in a fight at some point. People are calling Trunchbull a "badass" and I'm saying I don't see it. She looks like a fairly passive aunt in a borrowed coat.
So as far as the whole "Creed's coat" thing, I'm surprised no one has brought up that Creed might have had multiple coats. Once a hole wore in the shoulder of the coat Ursula is wearing he would presumably retire it and get a new identical coat. That said, I kind of doubt GW would go with such a humdrum explanation (and rightly so, 40k is supposed to be a bit over the top at the very least)
Also, as someone who plays a custom guard regiment for fluff reasons, I really hope they don't start subfaction locking even more stuff (as in all the named factions get a kasrkin-like unit). I'd be open to them adding kasrkin as a non subfaction locked unit though. A sort of "today, we're all Cadian" show of unity thing, although that's not ideal either due to the whole super well trained because Cadia thing.
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
Posture and jowly face make it look like an overweight character to me but maybe it's just clothing bulk. I've got no idea where this "badass" thing is coming from though.
But cigar smoking Ursarkar Creed who was based on big fat bastard Winston Churchill, he was famously asthma free, right?
He looked like a grizzly grumpy tactician type, and he had a gnarly scar which suggested he'd at least been in a fight at some point. People are calling Trunchbull a "badass" and I'm saying I don't see it. She looks like a fairly passive aunt in a borrowed coat.
Yeah Creed's fluff was that he started as a whiteshield and climbed his way up the ranks. He did plenty of fighting in his youth.
Well this preview has prompted me to get off the fence and finally order 3 of the current sentinels to make a squadron of armoured ones after about a decade of not getting round to it.
Kasrkin wrote: Not a fan of these new Kasrkin. Not a fan at all. They simply do not look correct.
Compared to the metal ones the shoulder pads and knee pads are less exaggerated, the helmet is a tough more rounded in places, and the rifle has a scope now.
The straps on the kneepad are so bad on the new one, ruins an otherwise seemingly good model. The legs just look bloated and weird because of the smoothness.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I've already gotten to an argument whether the Kasrkin are on 32mm bases. Any of the local CSI image-sleuths care to wage in?
Definitely not 32mm, but the proportions don't look like 25mm either. It is most likely (the newish) 28,5mm base, meaning the models are noticeably taller than the older ones, but not primaris sized.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I've already gotten to an argument whether the Kasrkin are on 32mm bases. Any of the local CSI image-sleuths care to wage in?
Definitely not 32mm, but the proportions don't look like 25mm either. It is most likely (the newish) 28,5mm base, meaning the models are noticeably taller than the older ones, but not primaris sized.
The comparison pic with the DkoK made the kasrkin's base look quite a bit bigger, just going by the rim height.
DKoK are on 25mm bases, but in the comparison pic the bases were scaled to same width, making the models appear to be of roughly similar size. But of course if Kaskrins are on 28,5mm bases, they'll be bigger.
pgmason wrote: Well this preview has prompted me to get off the fence and finally order 3 of the current sentinels to make a squadron of armoured ones after about a decade of not getting round to it.
I'm the opposite. I like the old Sentinel just fine and don't need the round armor on the new one, but I am on the fence now because it looks like the new one's top extends further to the back and puts the center of gravity in a more comfortable spot. To my eyes, at least. Kind of hard to tell from the video. But it's enough to make me hesitate getting any old ones I may want,
Crimson wrote: DKoK are on 25mm bases, but in the comparison pic the bases were scaled to same width, making the models appear to be of roughly similar size. But of course if Kaskrins are on 28,5mm bases, they'll be bigger.
No, what I meant is...
If you assume that, in both pics the rim of the base is the same height (which, seeing they seem to be flat bases, would probably be the case), the base of the kasrkin is bigger, by a significant margin, taking into account both are quite open legged poses.
If you assume that, in both pics the rim of the base is the same height (which, seeing they seem to be flat bases, would probably be the case), the base of the kasrkin is bigger, by a significant margin, taking into account both are quite open legged poses.
Yes, because the Kaskrin most likely is on a bigger base (28,mm.) Though the difference is larger than the base height would indicate. 28,mm bases are actually slightly higher than 25mm ones. [EDIT: The last sentence appears to not actually be true.]
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is how they would roughly scale assuming a 28,5mm base.
Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
These new Chaos Guard and Kasrkin look like Video Game models ripped for wargaming. Secondary to that, they look like a "Not_GW IP model" knockoff of their own IP. Yes that looks like a Kasrkin, sort of. Really thin helmet, heroic scale gun but truescale body.
RedSarge wrote: Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
Right. Because historically that has been such a problem.
Yes, because the Kaskrin most likely is on a bigger base (28,mm.) Though the difference is larger than the base height would indicate. 28,mm bases are actually slightly higher than 25mm ones.
28mm bases are exactly the same height than 25mm (2021 sculpt). Both are about half a millimetre less than 32mm and other larger bases. For someone who is as passionate as I am about bases, the difference in height is annoying.
That being said, I agree that Kasrkin are on 28,5mm bases and your photoshop looks more accurate than the original comparison.
It's about time that Matilda's Ms. Trunchbull finally got an armored miniature! I do like the mini except for the torn clothing on the back. The rest of the miniature doesn't scream post apocalyptic scarcity of resources that would warrant the battle damage. Still, in plastic thats easy enough to fix.
DeadliestIdiot wrote: So as far as the whole "Creed's coat" thing, I'm surprised no one has brought up that Creed might have had multiple coats. Once a hole wore in the shoulder of the coat Ursula is wearing he would presumably retire it and get a new identical coat. That said, I kind of doubt GW would go with such a humdrum explanation (and rightly so, 40k is supposed to be a bit over the top at the very least)
I dunno what kind of Richie Rich Scrooge McDuck life you lead but I own exactly one suit of clothes which I wear every day as I stand in the same pose and will continue to wear until the day I die.
I imagine Creed was much the same.
Multiple coats, pft. You must be a Karashian or something.
(To tell the truth I love the idea that it's not Creed Sr's coat but someone gave it to her for the propaganda value, I also love the idea she's not even really related to Creed)
I'm still trying to work out if I like Lady Creed or not. I like the sculpting, but something feels a bit off about the face, reminds me of the larger lady on The Chase tv show. Also, the holes on the back of the jacket are a bit daft, they are way too big to not be repaired. If I do buy her I'll be using greenstuff to repair it.
I'm in two minds about the Kasrkin too. Technically they are great, but for some reason the kneepads are putting me off: they look much better on the original metals. I guess that's the limitations of plastic tooling showing its head again. Dunno why kneepads are so important to me
Will defo be buying the Kasrkin though, hope that they are not significantly taller than my current metals.
.
The Sentinels look very nice but I prefer the current versions, I'll be sticking with the four that I own
The torn coat is because it's meant to literally be her father's coat, recovered from the fall of Cadia. Obviously it's very likely a fake as Creed's body was never recovered (what with being in Trazyn's collection), but it's there for symbolic value, not because she can't get a new one. It's like Chow Yun Fat wearing the coat full of bullet holes in A Better Tomorrow 2.
Guard/plastic Catachans got me into 40k after dabbling in Skaven and the 5th ed Fantasy starter before that.
I really want to be excited for new Guard stuff, but those don't really blow me away.
The Kasrkin metals have so much nostalgia and wishful thinking about replacements that no plastic version could fully satisfy everyone. That said, everything below the coat looks off or downright bad. On the other models the legs don't look as bad, but the one they highlighted has straight up sausages for legs. It's like they mashed together a modern sculpt with some early GW plastic legs and added kneepads. Scroll in a way that cuts off above the knees, then just the legs and the whole model looks disjointed. The rest of the design and scaling I can live with, especially with a different helmet that will easily be found on from various sources (FW rebreather heads, for example). I was never a huge fan of Cadia, though, so not super tempted by those Kasrkin - and the idea of them standing next to Gorillas/regular Cadian plastics is kinda hilarious.
The Sentinel is a hard pass and I really regret not getting them when they were in squads of 3, but as a teen money was harder to come by.
pgmason wrote: The torn coat is because it's meant to literally be her father's coat, recovered from the fall of Cadia. Obviously it's very likely a fake as Creed's body was never recovered (what with being in Trazyn's collection), but it's there for symbolic value, not because she can't get a new one. It's like Chow Yun Fat wearing the coat full of bullet holes in A Better Tomorrow 2.
Yes buddy, I understand the context. I guess that they made the holes really big to make them noticable, but sometimes less is more, for me anyway.
pgmason wrote: The torn coat is because it's meant to literally be her father's coat, recovered from the fall of Cadia. Obviously it's very likely a fake as Creed's body was never recovered (what with being in Trazyn's collection), but it's there for symbolic value, not because she can't get a new one. It's like Chow Yun Fat wearing the coat full of bullet holes in A Better Tomorrow 2.
It's pretty stupid and disrespectful not to mend the coat, because it's gonna sustain much worse damage if she keep wearing it like that.
Sooner or later that coat gonna turn into multiple pieces that she can turn them into some kind of Crux Terminatus equivalent patches for other comissar's coats.
Agamemnon2 wrote: So if you give the tank commander a pith helmet, is he a Praetorian Praetorian?
Dammit, GW, stop overloading the namespace! :-P
To be fair, there's not actually that many units in game that use Praetorian. There's Necron Praetorians, the Praetorian guard and now a Praetorian tank. Which is arguably still too many, but it could be worse. It could be wolf.
28mm bases are exactly the same height than 25mm (2021 sculpt). Both are about half a millimetre less than 32mm and other larger bases.
Right you are! I misremembered at what point the weird discontinuity in the base heights happened. Also explains why people often confuse 28,5mm bases and 32mm bases based on pics, as they have very similar proportions and thus are hard to tell apart.
I kind of like the look of the armored variant of the new sentinel. Which might be good, as I like the unarmored variant of the old one. So why not both? I really hope they don't phase out the old ones too fast, even though I doupt two different Sentinel sets make sense economically.
With Creed I'm still undecided. I like the body shape, but the head... I don't know. Maybe one has to look at it for a while until it starts to become likeable.
Yes buddy, I understand the context. I guess that they made the holes really big to make them noticable, but sometimes less is more, for me anyway.
Yes and no. Admittedly I'm on mobile so maybe I missed it but I didn't see any on the front but the holes/tears on the back are really noticeable. It seems like they wanted to have their cake and eat it too from a sculpting/design perspective. At least it's easier to fix that way potentially.
RedSarge wrote: Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
These new Chaos Guard and Kasrkin look like Video Game models ripped for wargaming. Secondary to that, they look like a "Not_GW IP model" knockoff of their own IP. Yes that looks like a Kasrkin, sort of. Really thin helmet, heroic scale gun but truescale body.
If it looks like something from video game, that is a good thing. Not bad. There had been hundreds of tests done on recognizing units at a glance (because in fast paced FPS, being able to recognize enemy classes in a blink is really important and if the players can't do that, your game won't live long) and what you really need for it, is distinctive silhouette. That can be achieved by body shape, pose, gun tip, there are lots of tricks for it but the worst, absolute worst thing you can do, is have a square-ish blob where everything, from body to weapon, blends in and you can't see gak - precisely like in ugly gak squatborn SM and gorilla IG. The new models, both from primaris and traitor/refreshed IG, are lightyears better than old junk.
Now, as for heads, GW has a problem here - they tend to do helmets almost the same size as head without it (especially noticeable on new stormcast) but on the other hand, it keeps consistent model silhouette and from 3-4 feet, being able to tell what the mini is regardless of how it was painted might be more important for designers than having slightly more realistic heads.
And for the record, really disagree about the gun. It's slightly too big, yes, but again, 3-4 feet and IMO it looks great - designer took old, ugly gak brick of a gun from 90s and modernized it, making it far more detailed, thinner, looking more like a weapon someone might use, while keeping old, distinctive silhouette of hot shot making them blend in with old Kasrkin. Job really well done here.
I cannot agree with all of that. In a wargame, the importance of units having distinctive silhouettes is far secondary to the entire army having a strong visual cohesion with itself - the entire side track about FPS game design is completely misplaced here. The criticism of Firstborn being somehow particularly visually indistinct is also badly supported by the facts, considering how badly Primaris fare at this criterion, with their scarcely-distinguishable bolt rifle variants.
We've had Gaunt's Ghosts, the Catachan Colonel+Sergeant Ripper, and Death Korps.
Sidenote:
The kit is comprised of 35 plastic components, with which you can assemble one Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt, one Colonel Colm Corbec, one Major Elim Rawne, one Master Sniper Hlaine Larkin, one 'Try Again' Bragg, and one Sergeant Scout Oan Mkoll. This kit is supplied with 6x Citadel 28.5mm Round Bases.
RedSarge wrote: Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
These new Chaos Guard and Kasrkin look like Video Game models ripped for wargaming. Secondary to that, they look like a "Not_GW IP model" knockoff of their own IP. Yes that looks like a Kasrkin, sort of. Really thin helmet, heroic scale gun but truescale body.
If it looks like something from video game, that is a good thing. Not bad. There had been hundreds of tests done on recognizing units at a glance (because in fast paced FPS, being able to recognize enemy classes in a blink is really important and if the players can't do that, your game won't live long) and what you really need for it, is distinctive silhouette. That can be achieved by body shape, pose, gun tip, there are lots of tricks for it but the worst, absolute worst thing you can do, is have a square-ish blob where everything, from body to weapon, blends in and you can't see gak - precisely like in ugly gak squatborn SM and gorilla IG. The new models, both from primaris and traitor/refreshed IG, are lightyears better than old junk.
Now, as for heads, GW has a problem here - they tend to do helmets almost the same size as head without it (especially noticeable on new stormcast) but on the other hand, it keeps consistent model silhouette and from 3-4 feet, being able to tell what the mini is regardless of how it was painted might be more important for designers than having slightly more realistic heads.
And for the record, really disagree about the gun. It's slightly too big, yes, but again, 3-4 feet and IMO it looks great - designer took old, ugly gak brick of a gun from 90s and modernized it, making it far more detailed, thinner, looking more like a weapon someone might use, while keeping old, distinctive silhouette of hot shot making them blend in with old Kasrkin. Job really well done here.
It's a shame that you use such terms as "ugly gak", "old junk" and so on to describe the old models, it really doesn't make your post sound rational. I dislike the current trend of using words like "garbage" and "junk" to describe anything that we don't find to be great, sometimes it feels like subtlety and reason is a dying art.
I agree with your point about GW head size silhouette being the same whether helmeted or not, it's something that I've definitely noticed over the years. I'd like to see them move away from that.
I'm glad the trend of coming up for ugly words to call Firstborn hasn't yet extended to the people who field or collect them, but I suppose it's only a matter of time.
I would guess they would want to push the newer stuff, yes. I'm actually really interested in what they have in store for Squats and the IG. Rough Riders, maybe? A new kit to replace Banegryns?
Agamemnon2 wrote: So if you give the tank commander a pith helmet, is he a Praetorian Praetorian?
Dammit, GW, stop overloading the namespace! :-P
To be fair, there's not actually that many units in game that use Praetorian.
There's Necron Praetorians, the Praetorian guard and now a Praetorian tank.
Which is arguably still too many, but it could be worse.
It could be wolf.
Likely means that Praetorian guardsmen are being sidelined in an effort to make them go quietly into the night. Its a common retcon tactic in various continuities to re-assign the name of one thing to another in order to "overwrite" it.
The Praetorians were featured in a post-Rift Cadian novel like a year ago, they aren't gone from the background but I would absolutely understand why GW would try to shy away from their use considering their influence.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Side note of absolutely no consequence or, frankly, value, to anyone anywhere for any reason, but it won’t leave my head otherwise?
I do not get why people liked the metal Storm Troopers. Overburdened, far too busy, they don’t look as if they can move. I. Don’t. Get. It.
Right. That feels better. Everyone else crack on with your own preferences.
That's why I like them, they look like commandos dropping behind enemy lines with a ton of gear, because they'll be there for a while and need to carry everything they need for days of fighting.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Side note of absolutely no consequence or, frankly, value, to anyone anywhere for any reason, but it won’t leave my head otherwise?
I do not get why people liked the metal Storm Troopers. Overburdened, far too busy, they don’t look as if they can move. I. Don’t. Get. It.
Right. That feels better. Everyone else crack on with your own preferences.
That's why I like them, they look like commandos dropping behind enemy lines with a ton of gear, because they'll be there for a while and need to carry everything they need for days of fighting.
Yeah I also really like the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. The gasmasks I think are what make them great. Also I really like the black armour with red fatigues.
RedSarge wrote: Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
Presumably, that's partially (though not entirely, obviously) the reason for varying base sizes. You can tell the otherwise similar-looking Kasrkin from the regulars by dint of their bigger bases.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Side note of absolutely no consequence or, frankly, value, to anyone anywhere for any reason, but it won’t leave my head otherwise?
I do not get why people liked the metal Storm Troopers. Overburdened, far too busy, they don’t look as if they can move. I. Don’t. Get. It.
Right. That feels better. Everyone else crack on with your own preferences.
My housemate has recently stripped a few of those models, and I got the chance to check out the detail in them. They don't really have any. Every surface is covered with grenades, as if the sculptor just jammed spare bits from plastic sprues directly into the green stuff. They could be wearing bin liners under their gear for all I can tell.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Side note of absolutely no consequence or, frankly, value, to anyone anywhere for any reason, but it won’t leave my head otherwise?
I do not get why people liked the metal Storm Troopers. Overburdened, far too busy, they don’t look as if they can move. I. Don’t. Get. It.
Right. That feels better. Everyone else crack on with your own preferences.
That's why I like them, they look like commandos dropping behind enemy lines with a ton of gear, because they'll be there for a while and need to carry everything they need for days of fighting.
Yeah I also really like the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. The gasmasks I think are what make them great. Also I really like the black armour with red fatigues.
Yeah, the gas masks are great. Also the shape of the helmet that frames them so well. I also like how simple the armor is on them.
It's all around a perfect look. I wish GW made modern plastic versions of them.
RedSarge wrote: Well, it's definitely the END of Heroic scale from GW. What people tend to forget when wargaming is... you need to make out what the model is at around 3-4 feet.
Presumably, that's partially (though not entirely, obviously) the reason for varying base sizes. You can tell the otherwise similar-looking Kasrkin from the regulars by dint of their bigger bases.
I have to say I find 28mm bases pretty much indistinguishable from 25mm on the tabletop. 32mm are a large enough increase to see, but I never got that impression with 28mm ones.
I'm not saying that's not part of GW's rationale, but if it is it certainly doesn't work for me.
"New" is not an absolute term, but a relative one.
For context I just spent the last few months working on my 1994 metal IG, so putting my heavy weapons on 60mm bases was new. And 28.5mm? Not even on my radar.
Kanluwen wrote: It literally is there in the Gaunt's Ghosts description that you edited out.
So out of the whopping three general release items(Ghosts, Krieg, and Ripper), one whole squad had 28.5mm bases.
One "squad" of special characters, so, once again... no?
So one-third of the general release Guard items don't count?
Interesting...
I guess I shouldn't mention that Sergeant Ripper Jackson came with a 32mm base, eh?
Two thirds, as there's only one unit there. Seeing as the rest are characters... maybe see what I wrote. For some reason, people is aware that characters tend to come in bigger bases than regular troops, for whatever reasons.
JWBS wrote: Agreed, these 'akshually...' gotchas are very tedious to sift through.
And the various posts about "You're a hater" or "Youre a White Knight/Corporate shill" aren't very useful either.
On the Praetorian tank, I wonder if it will be closer in design to the Malcador with a heavy nose gun, sponsons and normal sized turret, or the Macharius with regular nose and sponsons, but a heavier turret?
On the Praetorian tank, I wonder if it will be closer in design to the Malcador with a heavy nose gun, sponsons and normal sized turret, or the Macharius with regular nose and sponsons, but a heavier turret?
Why not both? One heavy and one medium turret... and three light ones... and sponsons... and heavy stubbers on every surface... muahaha
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Scions are on 25mm's, so I don't see why Karskins would have larger bases
I don't know why, but they almost certainly are. And 28,5mm bases didn't exist when scions were made. New Eldar models moved on bigger bases too, even though similar older models are on 25mm bases.
chaos0xomega wrote: Were they? I heard that there was a novel in the works, but then the author (about a year ago) said that the title was pulled by Black Library and it probably wouldn't be moving forward.
One of the Minka Lensk novels by Justin D. Hill, though I can't remember which one, starts off with a gathering of Guard officers. A Praetorian officer insults the honour of the Cadians by declaring them a defeated people and a failure of a Regiment (IIRC). He ends up dueling a Cadian officer over it.
Now i can finally get a sculpt that works great with my custom regiment! It'll be interesting if the kasrkin can be troops. Currently my veterans are not and its triggering me....
Togusa wrote: I love how a mod deleted my post, no warning. No notification. Just poof gone.
They were more dealing with the post you were quoting. Mine's gone too, as it quoted you, quoting him. But not the people quoting us. It's weird.
No, the entire OT tangent was removed. Other posts were made after the clear out.
For the thread at large, since it apparently needs to be spelt out:
Folks, there's room for discussion of real-world themes in the Imperial Guard, but the news and rumours thread isn't really the place for it, and it shouldn't involve snide comments aimed at specific forum members. Let's get back to talking about the shiny new toiys, yes?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Watch it just be an Abrams with a lascannon.
Actually, that might be cool.
I'd be down with it.
Seeing more "modern" tank designs would go well with the Cadian "modern army" feel, I would think.
Or even better, they could go full Command and Conquer and copy the Apocalypse tank.
I mean, a large tank with two cannons would fit right at home in 40k.
New tanks are on the rumor list right? I kind of don't want them to touch the Leman Russ, because it is well known design and a bit of a meme.
Bobthehero wrote: Eh. I hope it's actually a (non-Hotshot) Volley Gun. Would have about just the same rules as a Heavy Stubber, but fit in better with the Guard.
I've long wanted a machine gun option for the IG to synergize with the heavy bolter. A heavy stubber would be perfect but an assault LMG would be cool too.
Bobthehero wrote: Eh. I hope it's actually a (non-Hotshot) Volley Gun. Would have about just the same rules as a Heavy Stubber, but fit in better with the Guard.
It was literally described as a Hot-Shot lasgun in the preview:
"Clad in the finest carapace armour, these special forces have more skills than your standard Astra Militarum trooper, and are able to cut down their enemies with volleys from their hot-shot lasguns."
Hm, those don't look that much like Cadians. The tunics look more like Steel Legion to me, and I'm not seeing any fleshtone in the faces either, the heads seem to be curiously dark, like they're all wearing masks or balaclavas.
I am 98% certain that those are Cadians. The only question is, if it is a Veteran Squad or a regular infantry one. The helmet shape, Cadian Gate symbol and the useless shin guard can be seen. The only reason they look so different is that it has been 20 years since the infantry was last designed and we are not used to Cadians to look anything different than chinstrapped potatoes on stubby legs.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Hm, those don't look that much like Cadians. The tunics look more like Steel Legion to me, and I'm not seeing any fleshtone in the faces either, the heads seem to be curiously dark, like they're all wearing masks or balaclavas.
Spoiler:
It's Cadians.
Spoiler:
They actually had longer field jackets/uniform shirts in the old Kopinski art(below) and they've kept it in the new art(above).
It just wasn't really ever showcased well on the models.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Hm, those don't look that much like Cadians. The tunics look more like Steel Legion to me, and I'm not seeing any fleshtone in the faces either, the heads seem to be curiously dark, like they're all wearing masks or balaclavas.
Yeah, looks like they're wearing masks.
I hope they are steel legion, they are a pretty iconic regiment that got abandoned because of metal models.
Bobthehero wrote: Eh. I hope it's actually a (non-Hotshot) Volley Gun. Would have about just the same rules as a Heavy Stubber, but fit in better with the Guard.
I agree. I forget where I mentioned it before, but I always thought a Rapid Fire 3 or 4 "squad automatic lasgun" would be perfect from a thematic point of view. Might need some lethality enhancements to actually be practical in 9E. Couple that with the ability to give one member an auxiliary grenade launcher like Intercessors, and I'd be in high heaven.
On imagery this corrupted and full of processing artifacts, it's never a bad idea to withhold judgement. I already regret subjecting myself to public mockery for making the what I thought were cautious and reserved observations I already made.
Kanluwen wrote: The heavy stubber looked like it's on the new Cadian Shock Troop kit in the background, not on the Kasrkin.
Spoiler:
They were up by the new Commissar.
Ooof. I know its a blurry image, but I don't like the look of that commissar's face. That scar looks gigantic and cyber eyes are usually hit or miss
Yeah, that one's rough--it's a screengrab from GW's purposely fuzzed out video.
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Agamemnon2 wrote: On imagery this corrupted and full of processing artifacts, it's never a bad idea to withhold judgement. I already regret subjecting myself to public mockery for making the what I thought were cautious and reserved observations I already made.
No mocking was intended on my part!
Cadians have a really interesting design aesthetic...but the models never really did them justice. I'm a big ol' Kopinski fanboy though so I was aware of the whole field jacket thing.
Kanluwen wrote: The heavy stubber looked like it's on the new Cadian Shock Troop kit in the background, not on the Kasrkin.
Spoiler:
They were up by the new Commissar.
Ooof. I know its a blurry image, but I don't like the look of that commissar's face. That scar looks gigantic and cyber eyes are usually hit or miss
Yeah, that one's rough--it's a screengrab from GW's purposely fuzzed out video.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Agamemnon2 wrote: On imagery this corrupted and full of processing artifacts, it's never a bad idea to withhold judgement. I already regret subjecting myself to public mockery for making the what I thought were cautious and reserved observations I already made.
No mocking was intended on my part!
Cadians have a really interesting design aesthetic...but the models never really did them justice. I'm a big ol' Kopinski fanboy though so I was aware of the whole field jacket thing.
Is that a volkite on the kasrkin below right of the commissar?
Olthannon wrote: Lady Creedence does not look like a bad ass. Ursula Creed does.
Ursula looks like Clare Balding with a powersword. She looks like she'd take a running start at kicking Abaddon so hard in the tadger for blowing up Cadia that his groin plate would shatter like the planet's crust.
Maybe Cawl will make her a Blackstone boot just for that purpose.
She looks like she got lost on the way to serve school dinners at a 1980s British comprehensive...
Olthannon wrote: Lady Creedence does not look like a bad ass. Ursula Creed does.
Ursula looks like Clare Balding with a powersword. She looks like she'd take a running start at kicking Abaddon so hard in the tadger for blowing up Cadia that his groin plate would shatter like the planet's crust.
Maybe Cawl will make her a Blackstone boot just for that purpose.
She looks like she got lost on the way to serve school dinners at a 1980s British comprehensive...
Absolute swing and a miss by gw on this one.
Yeah? I sure as hell wouldn't have talked gak about any of my school dinner ladies when I was a lad. They'd knock your fething teeth in and no mistake.
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
And you can be fat and in shape, or a martial artist.
Spoiler:
Did people ever complain about Creed's size? Man was thicccc
Of course not. He wasn't a woman. Creed's mass (or his having a face like a ham sandwich) was no problem for the loud minority because he fit their sense what a "tough" man should look like.
The predictability with which GW's female sculpts are attacked whenever they don't look like one particular representation of femininity is pretty embarrassing. Ursula has tons of character. She's a war leader, born into conflict and raised by violence. Her sculpt reflects that very ably. If anything, it's almost *too* on the nose for her character - then again, neither she nor any other of GW's characters will ever come close to the ludicrousness which are the Primarchs, and they get a free pass.
Rules wise we've seen the stat line of the basic trooper and that's it right? But the article referred to "find out more in the coming months" so it's not just round the corner. They previewed the base stats before the chaos legionary profile and CSM are still nowhere to be seen either.
There's been at least 8 Squat articles on warhammer community since April. I think there were 4 lore related ones and 4 model reveal ones, with only 1 of those model reveals having stats. They're definitely coming soon.
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Kanluwen wrote: The heavy stubber looked like it's on the new Cadian Shock Troop kit in the background, not on the Kasrkin.
Spoiler:
Which one has the heavy stubber? One on the left has a grenade launcher. One on the right is a plasma gun. Can't tell the two in the middle too blurry.
That would require Gw to give a flying gak about Inquisition beyond an occasional bone that isn't even edible. *Cough* Whited dwarf dex *cough*
Damn, I just wish GW would give Scions rules that let them be taken in an Inquisition detachment and get Inquisition keywords. Honestly that'd be enough.
I only now realized what the helmets of those old Storm Troopers reminded me of. It's the weird future army getup Q wears when he's trying to intimidate Picard the first time they meet.
Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration.
Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran.
Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass".
It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
For what it's worth, I feel like it's fine is supreme commander types aren't pointing, as any military situations where a commander is required to point to something for the grunts to go get is several pay grades down from them.
Unless it's pointing to the coffee maker for someone to catch fetch some, in which case, sure by all means point away
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
And you can be fat and in shape, or a martial artist.
Spoiler:
Did people ever complain about Creed's size? Man was thicccc
Of course not. He wasn't a woman. Creed's mass (or his having a face like a ham sandwich) was no problem for the loud minority because he fit their sense what a "tough" man should look like.
The predictability with which GW's female sculpts are attacked whenever they don't look like one particular representation of femininity is pretty embarrassing. Ursula has tons of character. She's a war leader, born into conflict and raised by violence. Her sculpt reflects that very ably. If anything, it's almost *too* on the nose for her character - then again, neither she nor any other of GW's characters will ever come close to the ludicrousness which are the Primarchs, and they get a free pass.
If the male Creed model came out now he'd probably cop flak for being big headed, excessively broad, and detail that is hard to discern what it is.
But for his time he was a good model. He didn't look athletic, he just has that grizzled veteran look, statuesque, rigid pose, craggy face, permanent scowl, big scar on his face, the cigar, the old trope of the angry veteran who just stands there making his troops fight harder and somehow doesn't get immediately killed for some reason
Ursula, you say "Her sculpt reflects that very ably"... I just don't see it. My Grandma looked more badass than that, God rest her soul
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
And you can be fat and in shape, or a martial artist.
Spoiler:
Did people ever complain about Creed's size? Man was thicccc
Of course not. He wasn't a woman. Creed's mass (or his having a face like a ham sandwich) was no problem for the loud minority because he fit their sense what a "tough" man should look like.
The predictability with which GW's female sculpts are attacked whenever they don't look like one particular representation of femininity is pretty embarrassing. Ursula has tons of character. She's a war leader, born into conflict and raised by violence. Her sculpt reflects that very ably. If anything, it's almost *too* on the nose for her character - then again, neither she nor any other of GW's characters will ever come close to the ludicrousness which are the Primarchs, and they get a free pass.
If the male Creed model came out now he'd probably cop flak for being big headed and excessively broad.
But for his time he was a good model. He didn't look athletic, he just has that grizzled veteran look, statuesque, rigid pose, craggy face, permanent scowl, big scar on his face, the cigar, the old trope of the angry veteran who just stands there making his troops fight harder and somehow doesn't get immediately killed for some reason
Ursula, you say "Her sculpt reflects that very ably"... I just don't see it. My Grandma looked more badass than that, God rest her soul
There are a lot of conclusory statements going around about that model with no underlying details. Makes me think the people who 'love' it, love it because of the gender statement rather than any actual quality to it.
Which, I suppose is fine, but instead of being honest that they love the political position/statement, many of those people switch to the strawman that complainers must want her 'sexy' a position I've seen precisely nobody take.
Carlovonsexron wrote: For what it's worth, I feel like it's fine is supreme commander types aren't pointing, as any military situations where a commander is required to point to something for the grunts to go get is several pay grades down from them.
Unless it's pointing to the coffee maker for someone to catch fetch some, in which case, sure by all means point away
But she's meant to be leading from the front, no? Wouldn't that put her in a position where she has to point?
caladancid wrote: There are a lot of conclusory statements going around about that model with no underlying details. Makes me think the people who 'love' it, love it because of the gender statement rather than any actual quality to it.
Which, I suppose is fine, but instead of being honest that they love the political position/statement, many of those people switch to the strawman that complainers must want her 'sexy' a position I've seen precisely nobody take.
Exactly what I was thinking, though I'll add that most people want all their "heroes" to be good looking, male and female. Look at all the high cheekbones and chiseled jaws you see on fictional officer types (even Creed to some extent, weathered by age and experience). The problem some companies run into (rightfully so) is that the female equivalent of "good-looking" is just overly-sexualized. That's why I mentioned Gina Carano. She doesn't need tight pants and a low cut shirt to look good.
I wonder if Wargames Atlantics' head options will fit on her. If so, then she'll make a fine addition to a Vostroyan army. If there's enough room on her base, I could put the Vostroyan banner bearer too
Who balances on rubble and skulls all the time though?
This feels like the start of a theme song
*music note* URSALA CREEEEEEEEED *music note*
Automatically Appended Next Post: And now my head cannon is that the sculpt is of her standing in the middle of the office and she had her lackeys set up the rubble because she always stands on rubble
Carlovonsexron wrote: For what it's worth, I feel like it's fine is supreme commander types aren't pointing, as any military situations where a commander is required to point to something for the grunts to go get is several pay grades down from them.
Unless it's pointing to the coffee maker for someone to catch fetch some, in which case, sure by all means point away
Maybe Guard would have benefited from the dreaded diorama HQ treatment. We've had several artworks of bigwig commanders standing around strategy tables with advisors and serfs around them. It's perfect to keep you big bad general type leader away from the frontline and still give her something to wave her stick at.
I think that might have been more inspiring than "lone commander holding stick" and a better representation of what Guard is about.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration.
Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran.
Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass".
It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
I mean, you basically just described her dad. Replace the smirk with a scowl and the badge of office with a cigar and thats literally the Usarkar E. Creed mini. But, yknow, double standards means you'll find some asanine way to justify why thats "bad ass" but its not cool when a woman does it.
Carlovonsexron wrote: For what it's worth, I feel like it's fine is supreme commander types aren't pointing, as any military situations where a commander is required to point to something for the grunts to go get is several pay grades down from them.
Unless it's pointing to the coffee maker for someone to catch fetch some, in which case, sure by all means point away
Maybe Guard would have benefited from the dreaded diorama HQ treatment. We've had several artworks of bigwig commanders standing around strategy tables with advisors and serfs around them. It's perfect to keep you big bad general type leader away from the frontline and still give her something to wave her stick at.
I think that might have been more inspiring than "lone commander holding stick" and a better representation of what Guard is about.
While I’m not a huge fan of the diorama characters, I think you are right. Have a commander, a few adjuncts, advisors, vox-troopers, and sentries set up in an ad-hoc battlefield command center. With assorted communication and tac-ops gear scattered around.
But you would loose a lot of flexibility. Would make for a fun model though.
I'd rather any diorama character be a generic "High Command" setup rather than a faction-locked character.
Because I have zero issue with someone like Ursula being a "getting her hands dirty on the field, with minimal minders" kind of commander. That fits a bit better as a named character, adding a bit of flavor to them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok_Entrepreneur3004 wrote:
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2 hours ago
It's turret is twin battle cannons which can be replaced with an even bigger gun It has a Gatling gun in the front which can be replaced by a big gun You can upgrade it to have even more guns
Carlovonsexron wrote: For what it's worth, I feel like it's fine is supreme commander types aren't pointing, as any military situations where a commander is required to point to something for the grunts to go get is several pay grades down from them.
Unless it's pointing to the coffee maker for someone to catch fetch some, in which case, sure by all means point away
Maybe Guard would have benefited from the dreaded diorama HQ treatment. We've had several artworks of bigwig commanders standing around strategy tables with advisors and serfs around them. It's perfect to keep you big bad general type leader away from the frontline and still give her something to wave her stick at.
I think that might have been more inspiring than "lone commander holding stick" and a better representation of what Guard is about.
While I’m not a huge fan of the diorama characters, I think you are right. Have a commander, a few adjuncts, advisors, vox-troopers, and sentries set up in an ad-hoc battlefield command center. With assorted communication and tac-ops gear scattered around.
But you would loose a lot of flexibility. Would make for a fun model though.
I'm not big on diorama characters either, to be honest. But normal humans with second rate gear have a way of getting roflstomped and I'd rather see a wise old dude(tte) in the role of tactician than warrior. Guardsmen aren't Marines. So I'm willing to let that override my usual reservations.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather any diorama character be a generic "High Command" setup rather than a faction-locked character.
I'd have no issue with GW putting a lid on their Cadia fetish for one second to give us a generic, properly blingy high command squad.
We're getting the first new Cadian models in almost a bloody decade! Scratch that, the Cadian Command Squad(the last actual Cadian release) was 2008. Just to reiterate:
2008. The rest of the Cadian plastics range(HWS+IS) were 2003/2004 era.
We've had more Commissars released than Cadian models! We've had more CATACHANS released than Cadian models! We've had more RATLINGS released than Cadian models! More Ogryn! We even had an entirely new subfaction in the form of the Tempestus before we got new Cadians!
They featured in the lore, but they sure weren't getting models.
And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
We have more plastic Catachans than we have any of those too.
Billicus wrote: Ursula Creed looks like she'd have an asthma attack after taking two steps, more like.
Why? The character doesn't look overweight or out of shape based on the model. 'Big' isn't the same as 'fat'.
And you can be fat and in shape, or a martial artist.
Spoiler:
Did people ever complain about Creed's size? Man was thicccc
Of course not. He wasn't a woman. Creed's mass (or his having a face like a ham sandwich) was no problem for the loud minority because he fit their sense what a "tough" man should look like.
The predictability with which GW's female sculpts are attacked whenever they don't look like one particular representation of femininity is pretty embarrassing. Ursula has tons of character. She's a war leader, born into conflict and raised by violence. Her sculpt reflects that very ably. If anything, it's almost *too* on the nose for her character - then again, neither she nor any other of GW's characters will ever come close to the ludicrousness which are the Primarchs, and they get a free pass.
If the male Creed model came out now he'd probably cop flak for being big headed and excessively broad.
But for his time he was a good model. He didn't look athletic, he just has that grizzled veteran look, statuesque, rigid pose, craggy face, permanent scowl, big scar on his face, the cigar, the old trope of the angry veteran who just stands there making his troops fight harder and somehow doesn't get immediately killed for some reason
Ursula, you say "Her sculpt reflects that very ably"... I just don't see it. My Grandma looked more badass than that, God rest her soul
There are a lot of conclusory statements going around about that model with no underlying details. Makes me think the people who 'love' it, love it because of the gender statement rather than any actual quality to it.
Which, I suppose is fine, but instead of being honest that they love the political position/statement, many of those people switch to the strawman that complainers must want her 'sexy' a position I've seen precisely nobody take.
Complaining about strawmen while building your own strawman. That’s a new one
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration. Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran. Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass". It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
I mean, you basically just described her dad. Replace the smirk with a scowl and the badge of office with a cigar and thats literally the Usarkar E. Creed mini. But, yknow, double standards means you'll find some asanine way to justify why thats "bad ass" but its not cool when a woman does it.
One is a 19 year old metal model made with the limitations of the time, and by no means a favorite of mine. The other is a modern sculpt that looks about as detailed as the old one and thats my problem with it.
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
We have more plastic Catachans than we have any of those too.
So is there Catachan favoritism?
No.
Catachans have the misfortune of having been even uglier on release than Cadian were and their look is less generic. GW decided to make Cadians the poster boys and while on the model side Catachans kept up, artwork usually focuses on Cadians over any other regiment.
And let's not forget that at some point GW had the brilliant idea of making Catachans go to direct only, which in many cases made Cadians the de facto only Guardsmen you could buy at independent stores.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration.
Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran.
Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass".
It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
I mean, you basically just described her dad. Replace the smirk with a scowl and the badge of office with a cigar and thats literally the Usarkar E. Creed mini. But, yknow, double standards means you'll find some asanine way to justify why thats "bad ass" but its not cool when a woman does it.
Haha you got jokes my man. Ursula would be much more "bad ass" if she was scowling and holding a cigar.
Assuming the trade setup is the same in Germany as here in the US, independent shops can order items that are tagged as "direct only"--assuming that they have a GW trade account.
Artwork focusing on the "Cadians over any other regiment" is a bit bollocks. They've reused a lot of art pieces over the years...specifically the Cadian ones since they actually held up aesthetically.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration. Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran. Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass". It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
I mean, you basically just described her dad. Replace the smirk with a scowl and the badge of office with a cigar and thats literally the Usarkar E. Creed mini. But, yknow, double standards means you'll find some asanine way to justify why thats "bad ass" but its not cool when a woman does it.
Haha you got jokes my man. Ursula would be much more "bad ass" if she was scowling and holding a cigar.
Probably, yeah. It'll look better than "dull surprise while apparently staring at a badge of office" at least.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, going by the face it seems GW did look at Trunchbull for inspiration. Which is fine, but the model looks kind of generic and bland to me. I don't see why people are saying she looks like some badass veteran. Passively standing on a pile of rubble and awkwardly holding up a badge of office with what appears to be a confused smirk does not tell me "bad ass". It would be nice if she were pointing with the badge of office to look like she was actually commanding.
I mean, you basically just described her dad. Replace the smirk with a scowl and the badge of office with a cigar and thats literally the Usarkar E. Creed mini. But, yknow, double standards means you'll find some asanine way to justify why thats "bad ass" but its not cool when a woman does it.
"He doesn't think this bland model that's not really doing anything is badass, therefore he must be sexist" Classy.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather any diorama character be a generic "High Command" setup rather than a faction-locked character.
Because I have zero issue with someone like Ursula being a "getting her hands dirty on the field, with minimal minders" kind of commander. That fits a bit better as a named character, adding a bit of flavor to them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok_Entrepreneur3004 wrote:
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2 hours ago
It's turret is twin battle cannons which can be replaced with an even bigger gun It has a Gatling gun in the front which can be replaced by a big gun You can upgrade it to have even more guns
Ok_Entrepreneur3004 wrote:
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2 hours ago
After chaos and daemon
A lil' more teasing from OK_E on reddit.
A vehicle larger than a Leman Russ but smaller than a baneblade, with a turret that fits 2 battlecannons, alongside a front-mounted weapon and potentially more weapons (i.e. sponsons)? That's the Macharius....
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
We have more plastic Catachans than we have any of those too.
Kanluwen wrote: I'd rather any diorama character be a generic "High Command" setup rather than a faction-locked character.
Because I have zero issue with someone like Ursula being a "getting her hands dirty on the field, with minimal minders" kind of commander. That fits a bit better as a named character, adding a bit of flavor to them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok_Entrepreneur3004 wrote:
·
2 hours ago
It's turret is twin battle cannons which can be replaced with an even bigger gun It has a Gatling gun in the front which can be replaced by a big gun You can upgrade it to have even more guns
Ok_Entrepreneur3004 wrote:
·
2 hours ago
After chaos and daemon
A lil' more teasing from OK_E on reddit.
A vehicle larger than a Leman Russ but smaller than a baneblade, with a turret that fits 2 battlecannons, alongside a front-mounted weapon and potentially more weapons (i.e. sponsons)? That's the Macharius....
Exactly what I was thinking. I've got a couple in resin but I wouldn't say no to a plastic variant. To be honest I'd give anything just to have rules that make my Forge World tanks vaguely competitive, I'm looking at you, Malcadors! Speaking of which, I can only dream of plastic Malcadors...
Something worth mentioning comes up with a reread of the Macharius lore:
That wasn't the original name of the tank!
In the mythic past it is known that the Imperial Army once fielded many types of heavy tanks during the Great Crusade, though the knowledge of their design, construction and even the name of some of these tanks has likely been lost. It is the job of the munition-adepts of the Adeptus Mechanicus to rediscover this lost data, a tireless effort which can last years. During one such mission Magos Nalax of forge world Lucius, through diligent study of his world's vast archives, discovered fragments of a blueprint for such a tank. The task of reconstructing the missing data became his life's work, cross-referencing data with components used on the Baneblade and other vehicles, until finally he presented a complete plan before the Fabricator-General on Mars for final approval. The process took two hundred years of careful study and consultation with other forge worlds before acceptance was given and Lucius sanctioned to begin production, though Nalax would not live to see his dream realized.
Ironically by this time Lucius had successfully lobbied for the right to build Baneblades and was already constructing them. However they soon found themselves swamped by the Departmento Munitorium's demands for the vehicle, and when the world of Krieg was returned to the Imperial fold it was Lucius that was charged with equipping their newly-raised regiments. To meet these demands Lucius turned to the Macharius, and in 852.M41 the first of these heavy tanks rolled off the production lines for the Death Korps of Krieg. Since that time other forge worlds have been granted permission to build Macharius tanks of their own, and its usage has spread to other regiments.
The original name of this vehicle is now lost and remains unknown.
So maybe the Praetorian is the blueprint the Macharius was mostly derived from?
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.
Geifer wrote: And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.
The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.
My retcon sense is tingling again.
Yeah, that was only a thing because GW was pushing the plastic Cadians and even then, it was sold in universe as other guard regiments intentionally emulating the Cadians because they're lauded as the epitome of what it was to be Guard.
Which was an odd attempt at trying to explain why everyone is aping the Cadians.
It would have made a lot more sense fluff wise if guard armour was being standardized for logistics reason and they went with the Cadian style of armour because it was deemed to be cheap and effective enough to be mass produced. Some regiments have the means of producing enough adequate armour for their troops, so they haven't adopted the "standard" model.
That's much more natural than "Cadians are so kewl everyone wants to be one."
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Which was an odd attempt at trying to explain why everyone is aping the Cadians.
It would have made a lot more sense fluff wise if guard armour was being standardized for logistics reason and they went with the Cadian style of armour because it was deemed to be cheap and effective enough to be mass produced.
Some regiments have the means of producing enough adequate armour for their troops, so they haven't adopted the "standard" model.
That's much more natural than "Cadians are so kewl everyone wants to be one."
The 3.5 ed codex mentions 'successful' uniform designs being copied by other regiments. On consideration, I don't recall where the 'Cadians are the standard gear' thing came from, and it may well have been just something that people just sort of assumed from the model range.
Although, you know, once upon a time Guard were all the same gear in different colours...
The second ed models also shared some gear - Catachans had the same pants and boots as Cadians, just without the jacket and helmet, and Valhallans had Mordian trousers and boots with a trenchoat and furry hat.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Huh, there's a thought. How many planets are in the Cadia system? Could the Cadians just relocate to another planet?
Planet, system, sector.
Also exact same uniform is used by millions of regiments. So even if there was literally no cadian raised regiment left in the universum model would still be relevant
Also don't expect tons of different plastic regiments...Even 3 would be pushing. Are there ulthwe guardians? Evil sun ork boy models? Leviathan hormagaunts? Nihilik immortals?
IG isn't marine selling and even there it's more of shoulder pads/special units. There isn't exactly swarm of different intercessor/infiltrator/etc kits for different chapters(especially ones that aren't just standard kit + shoulder pad upgrade sprue). So unless IG players are happy to have similar(shoulder pad upgrades for different regiments to work on same base kit and maybe odd special unit per regiment) don't expect to get more than the big seller of 40k. If they don't get it don't expect niche faction to get it either.
Also don't expect tons of different plastic regiments...Even 3 would be pushing. Are there ulthwe guardians? Evil sun ork boy models? Leviathan hormagaunts? Nihilik immortals?
Yeah except a big thing about the Imperial Guard is that they are meant to be totally different. Each regiment is supposed to be unique because of all those billions of planets. The Guard are meant to be the variety and spice of human life.
If the Cadians were a spice, they would be flour.
I don't care that ooh Cadia is a sector or ooh standard kit or whatever. GW had an opportunity with Cadia being destroyed to push the Guard in a bit of a new direction. A little bit of variety to refresh that. Sure we don't get Evil Sun Orks or whatever but we do get sixty million upgrade sprues for space marines. And also we did get Ulthwé Guardians, that was what storm guardians were.
It's not asking for much to have a kit with the opportunity to create different Guard units.
Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).
JWBS wrote: Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).
It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.
So I'm wondering why GW released the Cadian upgrade sprue with all of the extra heads and weapons if they were going to replace the Cadian kit in the near future?
For this reson alone I'm guessing that the Cadian troops seen in the background must be a veteran kit, and the current troops are going nowhere.
I know I'm a bit late to the party with this, please forgive me
H.B.M.C. wrote: That might've just been to speed up the sculpting process. They did a lot of that back then.
One of the neat things about miniatures is how the logistics of sculpting and tooling molds end up mirroring real life.
In the real world once a military finds a platform that works they use it for all sorts of variants since that's easier than making a new vehicle from scratch. And it's the same for miniatures.
Infantry end up with the same canteens and rifles so sculptors (digital and clay) can reuse bits and save time.
JWBS wrote: Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).
It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.
Even if they spread it out that still means something else coming off the schedule to make room. There is a finite amount of design, tooling, and production time available. Sure GW could have 6 or 7 different IG regiments, but that requires resources that otherwise go into more interesting things like Eldar Corsairs or Renegade Guard Kill Teams.
I reckon by the time the codex comes we'll end up with a middle ground of about 3 regiments in GW plastic, When most armies have 5-7 sub-factions to pick from I very much doubt there will be rules support for only 2-3 guard regiments. At the very least we'll retain build-your-own regiment rules, plus as they've done before there'll be some suggestions for custom designs via GW's own kits like GSC cultists / Skitarii / Necromunda gangers.
I also think it's a good thing if there's a market space for 3rd party designers such as Victoria Lamb. There's no reason why GW should have to produce official Mordian or Valhallan models for you to use an army with that theme.
xttz wrote: I also think it's a good thing if there's a market space for 3rd party designers such as Victoria Lamb. There's no reason why GW should have to produce official Mordian or Valhallan models for you to use an army with that theme.
Exactly this. GW will always look at it's investments in resources in terms of expected return. Maybe multiple regiments doesn't meet that return goal because it splits the IG market across more kits (those that would buy whatever IG kits exist), while only capturing a limited amount of new market (those who would buy Valhallans, for example, but not Cadians). Those other regiments might have a smaller market value that isn't worth it for GW to go after, but prime for 3rd party creators.
100% supposition on my part. Just wish GW was more supportive of the 3rd party realm.
JWBS wrote: Supporting your competitors rarely makes sense for your shareholders, no matter the relative size of your company or theirs.
I don't disagree, but there is room within a company's strategic vision for assigning value to growth through means other than the quantitative investment/return/cashflow regime. It was more of an editorial comment on my end, but there is a middle ground between actively supporting and actively fighting. Think of it like building and maintaining brand perception. I wouldn't be so bold as to think I know more than GW, so just my thoughts.
JWBS wrote: Supporting your competitors rarely makes sense for your shareholders, no matter the relative size of your company or theirs.
the main thing going for GW games is the larger playerbase and GW knows this
so 3rd party companies help to fill in the numbers to maintain the playerbase GW needs to sell their stuff, it is more like a f2p game, just that in this case 3rd party designer and russian servers are the "free" part as you can get into the game for much less
JWBS wrote: [...] it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).
It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.
Even if they spread it out that still means something else coming off the schedule to make room. There is a finite amount of design, tooling, and production time available. Sure GW could have 6 or 7 different IG regiments, but that requires resources that otherwise go into more interesting things like Eldar Corsairs or Renegade Guard Kill Teams.
I think we're much on the same page here; that it'd be nice to have Guard variants, but it's hard to justify them from a business perspective if they're simply aesthetically different.
The implication, then, is that differentiation in Guard regiments (or ork craftworlds, or eldar craftworlds) could be possible if the same approach was taken as for Space Marines: i.e. a sub-Codex that leans into a particular specialisation. The neat thing about Guard is that as the tanks and vehicles are all universal, it really only require three kits to create a different regiment: a command box, infantry box and 'other' (unique to the regiment). That allows a business argument to be made. Codex: Catachan, for example, would allow for a very different playstyle to Codex: Cadia.
That we now have additional ways of 'sneaking things in' - via Kill Team releases, or standalone games for example - I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that we'll see Guard of different types pop up. The Death Korps are a perfect example. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Catachan Devils (for example) turn up as a Kill Team. They're very much low-hanging fruit: if you release a kit that makes an elite Catachan squad build (like the DK veterans) as well as standard infantry squads, you've suddenly got an entire Catachan army available.
Something I always wonder about:
A variety of 3rd party companies that more or less obviously specialize in alternative guard (Victoria, Anvil and Wargames Atlantic come to my mind) are obviously profitably companies. Yet their total value is relatively small compared to GW. wouldn't it economically make sense to buy one or two of those, let them just keep their business model, but make those "officially approved" for use in GW stores and tournaments?
In the end players could use the minis for alternative regiments they seem to already buy en masse there, GW would not have to develop or produce those, the mentioned 3rd party companies would continue as usual (if they were profitable so far, they should be profitable afterwards) and meanwhile GW would kind of reduce competetion.
But then again, what do I know of economy. *shrugg*
I don't think that it would be a financial gamble for GW to produce different regiments in plastic.
It's what, three different kits per regiment (troops, command, heavy weapons)?
There are plenty of examples accross the board of plastic GW kits that are way more niche, the price of HIPs production is much lower for GW than it used to be.
