Snrub wrote: Which they'd use months for the roadmap as opposed to seasons. It confused the crap out of me when they said the Cities of Sigmar were ages away, but then specified Autumn which is just round the corner.
Also, that Squat V Beastmen video had the cringest voice over ever.
Show us the things in the video. The new Dread. Biovores. Norn-thingy. Screamer Killer. Flamer Marines. Combi-Marines. Termy Chaplain. Gravis Apothecary.
Wow, those kroxigor weapons are just terrible. Have they no idea at all how you swing a pick? You MUST have a handle as free from sliding obstructions as possible.
I mean, they're bulkier, but they still have dislocated shoulders that sit higher than their necks. Which is a weird choice given the push everywhere else in the range for more realistic proportions.
New Termagants look cool, though. And the Screamer Killer in the trailer was cool...
So am I correct in assuming that a Screamer Killer kit is in the making, as opposed to just a regular old Carnifex?
The Screamer Killer was that one kit I always wanted as a kid but could never convince anyone to buy for me.
Decades later, will the tables finally turn?
They're talking about things like rules bloat and having a way to bring only the rules you need to a game. It sounds like a step in the right direction...
I like the new gaunts, but not overly so. The are very detailed with lots of boney protusion. Not necesarily something I'm looking for in swarm unit like that.
Prometheum5 wrote: They're talking about things like rules bloat and having a way to bring only the rules you need to a game. It sounds like a step in the right direction...
Sorry to be cynical, but it sounds like time for an Admiral Ackbar impression. Things are almost always simple at the start of an edition. Let's see if it carries through the next three years.
I did note in the write-up that Codexes will replace Free Rules eventually, so Books will still cost $$$
But everything else seems neat. I'm probably still sidelined in 40k for the time being but it seems like a great starting point for people who really want to get in and people who are excited to play 40k in general.
Prometheum5 wrote: They're talking about things like rules bloat and having a way to bring only the rules you need to a game. It sounds like a step in the right direction...
Sorry to be cynical, but it sounds like time for an Admiral Ackbar impression. Things are almost always simple at the start of an edition. Let's see if it carries through the next three years.
Absolutely true. Would be a shame if six months of glorious Indexhammer end up right back where are now again. The blog post mentions a 'one-in, one-out' ethos to adding rules to factions with the Codex releases, so maybe...
We already have the MOST generic Primarch running around, might as well bring back the second most generic Primarch as well.
... only those two (Gulliman, Johnson) that could have been alternate candidates for Warmaster (and hence best choice for Regent). Dorn a bit too one-dimensional, the rest of them various levels of deranged. Ignore the disinformation presented in the recent lore installment, Sanguinius lacks the desire which is a disqualifying factor...
"Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his..."
—Warmaster Horus praises his brother Primarch Sanguinius
If GW *really* wanted to blow minds, that's how they would do it.
Indeed, disinformation from a most surprising source, Abnett himself. I urge you to disregard this BA propaganda (still best legion and Primarch though).
Mixed bag on the preview. Gotta say I'm shocked the Lion is old and I don't like it one bit. He seems tiny too compared to Robute, better model ofc but old and small. Gutted. Rest of the stuff seemed decent. Fluff is going to be an absolute mess. Biggest tyranid invasion ever, plus whatever is going on with Abaddon (I'm glad I don't follow the fluff anymore). Mike is a good host, his demeanour makes Eddie appear very twitchy by comparison.
HH players get rekt. People who bought the recent DA terminators in the SoulForge box get rekt but moreso
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ok, Combat Patrol is silly. "Buy our boxes". I guess that makes the Death Guard one legal, finally.
Sucks if your Combat Patrol is garbage.
This a total trap for beginners, and might discourage them from trying the main game if they try this first, go "the faction I picked SUCKS!", and give up.
Kinda happened to me in 7th when I started, I got the Orks start collecting box and got gak whipped by my friend's space marines. Thankfully he had multiple armies and let me play one of them to learn the game better while I got more unit variety for my army, otherwise I probably would've quit.
JWBS wrote: Mixed bag on the preview. Gotta say I'm shocked the Lion is old and I don't like it one bit. He seems tiny too compared to Robute, better model ofc but old and small
His hair is blond rather than grey or white, and his face doesn't look any more lined than the average Space Marine Captain.
As for size, I think it's just the bulkier proportions making him look more squat than RG, because on a side-by-side comparison they look about the same height.
Okay, how I feel about each release announcement:
1. The Lion: OMG I GOTTA HAVE IT! AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I CAN FINALLY HAVE A MODEL OF THIS GUY FOR 40K! Dark Angels were my first 40k army back in 2014, so while many will probably jump on the bandwagon because of this release, I and others like me have truly earned it, waiting through times of terrible rules in editions past for our Primarch to come and deliver us.
2. New Seraphon: I definitely love the models; they are so much better than the outdated WHFB leftovers that the faction has been stuck with for so long. Not gonna start a second AoS army because of them though.
3. OBR and SBGL new minis/books: The models are cool, but neither faction appeals to me personally.
4. Warhammer Underworlds new warbands: Both new bands are really cool, but I don't play Underworlds so will probably give it a miss.
5. Kill Team: Gallowfall: I don't really have a local Kill Team scene near me, and the models don't do enough for me despite the fact that I do have a Votann army that I'm slowly putting together. That being said, the terrain is pretty awesome.
6. Cities of Sigmar Militia: These guys look really cool; sort of the medieval version of Astra Militarum units (normal humans facing incredibly dangerous foes with inadequate equipment).
7. 10th Edition Warhammer 40k: Hoo boy, where to begin? I love that the rules are going to be free, as are the unit datasheets and points. And I'm glad that some of the more out-there rumors about how the game is changing mechanically don't appear to be true. I consider myself to be cautiously optimistic at this point. Models-wise, they really didn't give us that much to look at yet, but the new Terminators and Termagants do look pretty good, and if the animation is showing what's going to be in the new starter it should be an absolute banger if you're a Space Marine or Tyranid player (I might be seriously tempted to start Nids the same way I was tempted to start Necrons at the start of 9th).
Indeed. Now bring back templates and facing, and i might play this edition
That's not really consistent with streamlining gameplay though is it? Templates and facings just add layers of fiddling that as 8 and 9 have shown don't need to be there. The acid test for 10e will not be what it's like on launch day but what it's like 12-18 months later after several codexes have dropped.
Indeed. Now bring back templates and facing, and i might play this edition
You would ask for the two least meaningful features ever to be removed from the game. Hey, why not bring back the death from the skies from 7th too? Ooh, how about random warlord traits? Formations?
It might just be having psychics rolled back into the rest of the game again, but I'm seriously getting 3rd edition vibes here from all of the streamlining talk.
So expecting that on release we're going to hear a lot of complaints about all of the stuff that's been removed, and then in another 10 years or so a bunch of people will be reminiscing on how much better it was back when the game was simpler...
JWBS wrote: Mixed bag on the preview. Gotta say I'm shocked the Lion is old and I don't like it one bit. He seems tiny too compared to Robute, better model ofc but old and small
His hair is blond rather than grey or white, and his face doesn't look any more lined than the average Space Marine Captain.
As for size, I think it's just the bulkier proportions making him look more squat than RG, because on a side-by-side comparison they look about the same height.
He's growing on me. He definitely looks old, lots of people in stream chat apparently noted this too though I wasn't reading. Age probably doesn't mean infirmity though so as long as he's not small (I have my doubts) I'm okay with it. I have the other version anyway but I think I'll get this one too now I've come to terms with the face.
10th edition looks like a cool video game LoL. What was that?
Terminator legs look much better. No longer look like they have old man legs.
Gaunts are gaunts...idk. Not much here to get excited about for 40K. Still not going to play.
Lizardmen look cool. Kroxigors an obvious improvement but I'm not really a fan. Better 3d print options out there imo.
The Saurus Cav and Skink Cav are incredible imo.
The Free Cities guys are... Ok? They look very whimsical in design with stupid helmets. Shields are cool. Too bad they won't come with hardly any options and will all be monopose if recent releases are any indication. Kills my interest.
insaniak wrote: It might just be having psychics rolled back into the rest of the game again, but I'm seriously getting 3rd edition vibes here from all of the streamlining talk.
So expecting that on release we're going to hear a lot of complaints about all of the stuff that's been removed, and then in another 10 years or so a bunch of people will be reminiscing on how much better it was back when the game was simpler...
Going from 2nd Ed to 3rd it felt like so much was lost in the simplification. 25 years later and I think HH2.0 is great because at the core it’s upgraded 3rd Ed.
If they can keep the stratagems locked down in volume that will increase the appeal I think.
Probably the best thing is that Termegant reaction ability. If more units have things like that (and they've hinted there are more) that will really give players more ways to engage with what their opponent is doing on their opponents turn.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: Probably the best thing is that Termegant reaction ability. If more units have things like that (and they've hinted there are more) that will really give players more ways to engage with what their opponent is doing on their opponents turn.
I don't doubt the eldar of every stripe will have things like this, it seems the best place to show their speed and reaction time.
Anyone have any guesses on the Ld test mechanic? Termagants have 8+, so perhaps roll 1D6 + remaining models in a unit and equal or exceed the value? Or may be roll 2D6 and subtract the casualties this round, trying to get the number?
Depends whether they want high Ld = good, or low Ld=good
As someone who played multiple 40K armies from 1990 - 2002 as 3rd ed became more bloated I just lost interest and moved to WHFB and other games.
2nd ed was manageable due to the small size of the forces but they get bigger and bigger each edition.
The last few editions I have been watching games at my FLGS and 40K is horrendously complex from before the game, keeping up with control points, objectives etc.
Playing AOS is similar and at 2000 points I am yet to get into turn 3 after 3 hours. just too much book keeping to make it enjoyable.
As an Imperial Guard player I saw one thing in the article that causes both joy and concern.
The force organisation chart going away does mean that one can build a nice armoured company.
But the infantry company is in trouble. When they mention the rule of three there is a little asterisk
"* Units with the Battleline keyword can be taken up to six times, so your dream of a full Space Marine Battle Company army can still be fulfilled…"
I disliked the fact that they broke up the infantry squad profile in the latest codex, but if they continue with each unit being a different datasheet, at least that means one can still make an infantry company
Dirk Reinecke wrote: As an Imperial Guard player I saw one thing in the article that causes both joy and concern.
The force organisation chart going away does mean that one can build a nice armoured company.
But the infantry company is in trouble. When they mention the rule of three there is a little asterisk
"* Units with the Battleline keyword can be taken up to six times, so your dream of a full Space Marine Battle Company army can still be fulfilled…"
I disliked the fact that they broke up the infantry squad profile in the latest codex, but if they continue with each unit being a different datasheet, at least that means one can still make an infantry company
John D Law wrote: Whelp the Lions look definitely quashes the old urban myth that the Dark Angels were the “Native American” marines chapter. ?
They never were. With no homeworld left they just recruit from many different worlds, and one of them was the world of the Plains People who were, obviosly, inspirated by native Americans. But it has nothing to do with Jonson or Caliban.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: As someone who played multiple 40K armies from 1990 - 2002 as 3rd ed became more bloated I just lost interest and moved to WHFB and other games.
2nd ed was manageable due to the small size of the forces but they get bigger and bigger each edition.
The last few editions I have been watching games at my FLGS and 40K is horrendously complex from before the game, keeping up with control points, objectives etc.
Playing AOS is similar and at 2000 points I am yet to get into turn 3 after 3 hours. just too much book keeping to make it enjoyable.
remember when you just killed the enemy?
My 3500 point Imperial Guard Army in 2nd edition is about 1750 depending on the force org chart. Everything just got so much cheaper - a guardsmen squad dropped from 125 points to 60 points. Tanks dropped from 250 points to about 140-150ish. I finally just stopped playing them because I couldn't get Mordians and Praetorians any more.
Since the video and talking points clearly say new ”upscaled” Terminators can we then surmise an upscaled box dreadnought as well! ??? Cuz, well there it was!
I mean, they're bulkier, but they still have dislocated shoulders that sit higher than their necks. Which is a weird choice given the push everywhere else in the range for more realistic proportions.
New Termagants look cool, though. And the Screamer Killer in the trailer was cool...
The shoulders look LESS disconnected though, so with the resizing they look closer to Primaris proportions, which was absolutely necessary.
The Deathwing were, their origin story is about cleansing a recruitment world / home world to the protagonists, a plains society of tribes etc. They had feathers / totems / neolithic art styled heraldry. Very good story iirc, I haven't read it for like decades so my memory of it is a bit fuzzy. I remember some of the names though, native American style names Weasel Fierce, Two Heads Talking etc. This was before the Heresy lore was established though.
Just catching up on stuff on the commute to work. The Lion looks pretty cool, bit of a weird face but I guess I'm interested to see what happens with the lore. I don't play enough games to be that interested in the 10th edition release but I hope it's less bloated with extras than the few games of 9th I played? Probably not right..
I'm happy about the Votann Kill Team, especially the jet pack. That looks excellent and also makes me interested to see the next release of kit down the line. I'm not sure why they used Hearthkyn when the Hernkyn are the Pioneers and would have made more sense..? I guess didn't want to make new models and just went with an upgrade sprue, oh well. The Beastmen look great as well so definitely will pick that up.
I've not seen all the rest but I have to say I'm actually quite impressed with the Cities of Sigmar models. Nicely different from WFB and with that returning makes sense to make some really different minis and I quite like them. Not mad keen on any AoS stuff but those look good.
Edit: oh gak I forgot - the new Terminators look awesome. I love Terminators, so I definitely want them.
Prometheum5 wrote: They're talking about things like rules bloat and having a way to bring only the rules you need to a game. It sounds like a step in the right direction...
Sorry to be cynical, but it sounds like time for an Admiral Ackbar impression. Things are almost always simple at the start of an edition. Let's see if it carries through the next three years.
Absolutely true. Would be a shame if six months of glorious Indexhammer end up right back where are now again. The blog post mentions a 'one-in, one-out' ethos to adding rules to factions with the Codex releases, so maybe...
When rather than if. Because GW always returns to the same place.
A thought has occured. I hope they don't take the away the Sentinels and Leman Russes ability to be taken in groups like they did for the Hellhounds and Basiliks and Hydras
Well that was fun little set of reveals after good night sleep.
Lion ok. Dislike primarch super hero 40k style but ah well. Hopefully rules not too busted. 10th ed rules cautiously optimistic they might be better core than 8e/9e but of course then there's still inevitable codex creep danger.
Seraphon awesome looking and will be nice to see them lined up against me. Luckily seraphon is popular army locally so expecting lots of these OBR & Soulblight heroes look good and hoping obr rises from slumber again locally with these. For soulblight interested to see are zombies redesigned rules wise. Always felt weird they have very long threat range...
COS looks good. Still waiting to hear what happens to rest of COS range(phoenix guard etc). Can I still use them? Total purge? Haven't bought anything for COS for ages just in case.
Rest of reveals not relevant for me. Like the sound of HH campaign book(beats 40k psychic awakening style of free rules for specific factions).
- The Lion looks great, rumors were spot-on regarding several head options.
- Upscaled Terminators and Termagants look good, lack of change in overall design is much appreciated. Looking forward to seeing new tyranid morphs, the initial ambush reminded me of the old carnifex sculpt.
- Lizardmen look fantastic, very much in line with classic designs. I will absolutely build my next fantasy army with those sculpts.
- Cities of Sigmar look weird to say the least. Not at all what I would have expected.
I'm really hoping to see more Beastmen come out with a full Lost and Damned army. Also, the model with the gas grenade and plague knife gives me hope that we will see new god-specific Beastmen.
- Leonel Messi is better then Lion El'Jonson. I certainly prefer the helmeted heads. Now the problem is WHICH of the helmeted heads.
I'm still a son of Russ/Vulkan at heart though.
- OH BROTHER IN THE GREAT PLAN.
Aggradons do not seem to replace Saurus Knights. They appear to be on the base size of the Varanguard, which is awesome, and they seem to come only in units of three, and that makes me think Cold Ones will still stay for another while before getting an actual resculpt. Sorry if they already said this on stream, but I was just screaming and laughing of pure excitement. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love how these aggradons, while looking a lot like the actual Jurassic Park raptors, now, thanks to our updated knowledge on dinosaurs, they also kinda look like noasaurids, the sister family of Abelisaurids (the family of dinosaurs Carnotaurus belongs to). The most recent (and only, afaIk) show on mainstream media was Masiakasaurus, the little dinosaur eating crabs in Prehistoric Planet. Aggrados now also kinda look like Megaraptorian in size compared to Carnosaurs. I do get the "don" fatigue, but hey, we could expect new models to get "saur" names too!
I love the new Sotek Spawned Kroxigors, and while I'd prefer the Total War look, I guess they wanted to do a more, let's say, "reallistic" approach, where both arms and legs where of a more human-like proportions, rather then make them more of gorilla-like with huge, kinda cartoonish hands.
Regular Kroxies are weird though. They look a ton just like Dehaka from StarCraft II, or Heroes of the Storm, or, that being said, Primal Zergs, so maybe they could be excellent conversions for 40K, ironically. I have to see yet other paintjobs, but the Blessed Spawn is just better.
I doubt I'll get the army box, but I'm still hooked.
F for Razordon not getting a refresh.
- I just kinda not care for Death heroes, but hey, is nice to see them getting their book. Poor Lady forgor to vax.
FEC not having their tome yet only makes me think they will be really strong once they get they're out, which should be sooner because they just leaked the next Warcry box, which is SCE versus FEC!
- I really don't care about the Dawnbringers though. And those models are bland as heck.
- I like the new Underworlds box set. SCE are solid but HOLY MOLLY TZEENTCH IS OBSCENE. That's the kind of abominant, warped horrors/tzaangors I want.
- THOSE 40K BEASTMEN AND UPGRADED LOV ARE AWESOME!!!! I do hope to get that box. This also gives us a glimpse of what Fantasy Beasties should look like in a few editions or so.
- 10th has the best cinematic trailer ever. It does feel like Leviathan fleet is just going to consume everyone. Ultras getting the L like that is so therapeutic (no hate, just kind of laughable). The new Termies look amazing, the refreshed Termas too. I haven't readed the article and I was busy doing some chores while they explained the rules, but if they want to rid off the rules bloat, I'm on.
John D Law wrote: Since the video and talking points clearly say new ”upscaled” Terminators can we then surmise an upscaled box dreadnought as well! ??? Cuz, well there it was!
The dreadnought in the trailer was just a Redemptor.
FEC not having their tome yet only makes me think they will be really strong once they get they're out, which should be sooner because they just leaked the next Warcry box, which is SCE versus FEC!.
Well we can see they aren't coming out before late autumn at most. After COS.
John D Law wrote: Since the video and talking points clearly say new ”upscaled” Terminators can we then surmise an upscaled box dreadnought as well! ??? Cuz, well there it was!
The dreadnought in the trailer was just a Redemptor.
Since when redemptor got twin lascannon?
2:28 in video. That doesn't look redemptor shoulder pad...
FEC not having their tome yet only makes me think they will be really strong once they get they're out, which should be sooner because they just leaked the next Warcry box, which is SCE versus FEC!.
Well we can see they aren't coming out before late autumn at most. After COS.
John D Law wrote: Since the video and talking points clearly say new ”upscaled” Terminators can we then surmise an upscaled box dreadnought as well! ??? Cuz, well there it was!
The dreadnought in the trailer was just a Redemptor.
Since when redemptor got twin lascannon?
2:28 in video. That doesn't look redemptor shoulder pad...
There's screen shots of the front, it's a redemptor chassis with missile launchers and lascannons.
I’m still not a fan of the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K, but that is a beautiful mini. If, instead, he was the first release of redoing the Heresy Primarchs in plastic, I’d be saying this is the best thing ever.
Rescaled Terminators look great. Here’s hoping that this is the beginning of the end of the artificial distinction between what Primaris and firstborn can take, especially vehicles. Primaris vehicles look like crap (imho) and the Heresy has given us some lovely new vehicle kits. I’m looking forward to the day when people can stick assault Intercessors in a Spartan.
Kill Team continues to disappoint me with its lack of imagination. I wish it had half the creativity of Warcry.
The most exciting thing for me though is the tease of Cities of Sigmar. I love those little fellas. AoS has been needing normal humans (that aren’t just leftover Warhammer Fantasy kits) for years. These look like they’re going to be exactly what the setting is missing.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: As someone who played multiple 40K armies from 1990 - 2002 as 3rd ed became more bloated I just lost interest and moved to WHFB and other games.
2nd ed was manageable due to the small size of the forces but they get bigger and bigger each edition.
The last few editions I have been watching games at my FLGS and 40K is horrendously complex from before the game, keeping up with control points, objectives etc.
Playing AOS is similar and at 2000 points I am yet to get into turn 3 after 3 hours. just too much book keeping to make it enjoyable.
remember when you just killed the enemy?
So true.
Vehicule and terrain rules for 8th and 9th did not help either.
The new terminators look good, because they look so much like the old terminators, just upscaled and with a bit more detail on them.
The lion is alright, in a saturday morning cartoon kinda way.
HH reveal was lackluster.
Interested to see if any of the Lizardmen rank up i.e. will be of use when the old world arrives. If it ever arrives, seems to be the slowest project GW has ever worked on.
Something to note is that since the new Terminators are basically just upscaled versions of the old ones, they can be used as true scale Indomitus Terminators for the Horus Heresy without having the issue of needing to get rid of any Primaris stuff.
Interested to see if any of the Lizardmen rank up i.e. will be of use when the old world arrives. If it ever arrives, seems to be the slowest project GW has ever worked on.
Unless base sizes go up doubt it. Lots of hanging over. Chaos chosen warriors and knights are nightmare to rank up. Doubt these are much better.
Of course nowhere does it say tow has to stay on 20/25mm/40 area. Could introduce 35mm squares which would alleviate. After all if no new bases are allowed to be introduced 25mm squares wouldn't be a thing either
Seraphon look awesome, but seriously, the 2 pre-order battletomes and the 2 previewed battletomes coming out only get one model. That's honestly fething worthless. Don't release books if you aren't doing anything substantial. Do yourselves a favor and don't buy into these gakky books, there will be a range update for each of them with another book in the next 1-2 years.
Roboute had the benefit of a stasis field, the Lion apparently didn't. The entire point of a stasis field is to prevent time moving which, y'know, would prevent aging...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Mooooooo! Kin look great. Not entirely sure I’m sold on the Beastmen, but dare say they’ll grow on me.
Something I didn't realise bugged me until just now - why do we almost always see Goatmen as Beastmen? Tzeentch has some slightly more avian-looking ones, and there's that one Khorne Dogman, but for something that could have so much variety, they're very limited...
streetsamurai wrote: Love beastmen in fantasy, but dont feel like they fit in 40k...
Any particular reason? Warp gonna warp people, after all.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Thank the Hive Mind that the Tyranids haven't gone through an aesthetic redesign.
I wonder how badly this will affect NAVARRO, given how much they were rubbing their hands with glee at the mere rumour of a redesign...
OC is Objective Control. Affects the unit's ability to control objectives.
Kinda wish they'd put that in the WHC article about the new edition, but that's a small gripe. May well crop up in future pieces.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And no Power Level on the sheet. Interesting.
No points, either - maybe both will be in their own section now (assuming PL remains a thing)?
One downside of that datasheet? No sign of the Spike Rifle or Strangleweb coming back in this new kit, which is a shame.
streetsamurai wrote: Dissapointed that there was no necromunda preview. Its been what, 2 or 3 previews since we got one?
They could probably do with a "Specialist Games" preview event, to set some expectations for the year ahead. On the other hand, they were very clear from the point they announced the preview which games would be included, so they are (slowly) learning in that regard.
John D Law wrote: Whelp the Lions look definitely quashes the old urban myth that the Dark Angels were the “Native American” marines chapter. ?
They had a "Native American"-flavoured recruiting world, sure, but I don't recall that being the flavour for the whole Chapter/Legion - especially given from at least Codex: Angels of Death we knew quite a bit about Caliban, and it didn't fit that theme.
On what proportion of things he claimed/reported? Given some of them contradicted each other, he cannae have a 100% record out of all this...
+ + +
Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?
And given KT stuff tends to migrate into 40k as well - was anything mentioned about where these new Beastmen would sit, in that regard?
Shame the two AOS Death factions are just getting a character - being newer lines (especially the OBR), they could probably have benefited from a unit or two. This seems to be a theme, though - if you're not the not-High-Elves as a new faction, you're SOL when it comes to getting new units.
On what proportion of things he claimed/reported? Given some of them contradicted each other, he cannae have a 100% record out of all this...
I will go over the OP and analyse this sometime this week, have no fear That's the biggest part of why i started this thread in the first place, and now we have enough material to have some substantial review.
Still fits the rumours - they don't really do alternative loadouts anymore, instead it's an alternative unit designation. Just like the 'Brutalis' is mostly a Redemptor with double CCW and some gubbins on top this will be a Redemptor with more ranged stuff and called a 'Sagitarius' or whatever.
So do the new Termies mean older armour designs can potentially be re-engineered for Primaris?
I always felt Primaris were a solution to a customer perception problem, but now that they're here, setting the new benchmark, straight up upscaling older designs seems to potentially be on the cards, which could give us back the classic marks in better proportions.
His Master's Voice wrote: So do the new Termies mean older armour designs can potentially be re-engineered for Primaris?
I always felt Primaris were a solution to a customer perception problem, but now that they're here, setting the new benchmark, straight up upscaling older designs seems to potentially be on the cards, which could give us back the classic marks in better proportions.
No because they didn't do anything to re-engineer the armour:
Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Posted much earlier about how the new Termagants looked skinny.
I think the correct word is “more lithe”, which is not the same as skinny.
Current ones are quite rotund and chunky compared to what came before. But the new ones look to be Just Right.
I think the new Termagants are amazing, and importantly, they manage to be a great update of the general idea without looking out of place. If you look at just the new ones, you could not say how they're different from the old ones, but if you put them side by side you can clearly see it. Great job imho!
His Master's Voice wrote:So do the new Termies mean older armour designs can potentially be re-engineered for Primaris?
Given that we have some example of Terminator armour being re-fitted to regular Space Marines that are noted to be absolutely huge compared to normal marines, like Asterion Moloch or Tyberos the Red Wake, and on the other hand Terminator armour that can be made to fit regular-sized humans like Inquisitors etc., i think that that's quite likely and in accordance with the background.
His Master's Voice wrote: So do the new Termies mean older armour designs can potentially be re-engineered for Primaris?
I always felt Primaris were a solution to a customer perception problem, but now that they're here, setting the new benchmark, straight up upscaling older designs seems to potentially be on the cards, which could give us back the classic marks in better proportions.
No because they didn't do anything to re-engineer the armour:
Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.
Which means that primaris are the same size as original marines, or they perform some leg shortening surgery to get them to fit... :p
streetsamurai wrote: Love beastmen in fantasy, but dont feel like they fit in 40k...
Any particular reason? Warp gonna warp people, after all.
.
They are too aosy?
Stomach plate instead of propper armor. And instead we see some hints of propper chaosified scrap flak armor but not enough. Instead we get stomach plates + bare combo. Basically too much Gor too little 40k beastmen regiment vibe.
No ranged weaponry in the forms of rifles.
Which means that primaris are the same size as original marines, or they perform some leg shortening surgery to get them to fit... :p
Looking at the new termies beside a Primaris marine, it's more that the armor is now too tall for Firstborn to fit in there easily... Legs, torso and eye level match up neatly with Primaris proportions and scaling.
1. Lion El Johnson – pretty cool, doesn't his face sculpt look like Liam Cunningham?
2. Seraphon – seems like this was all, so NO new Skinks for the time being :( Also, the Saurus Cavalry seems massive and only three per box, as they don't have more than three models on any of the promo pics. Guess they'll be also pretty expensive. Also, I'm slightly disappointed by the Kroxigors. By no means bad, but the regular heads look a bit small and goofy.
3. Kill Team – once again you'll get the same six sprues of walls plus a handful of new gubbins, yawn. The Beastmen are spectacular. Votann are alright, the regular Hearthkyn sprues were already filled with options (including pistol and CCW arms that for some reason don't appear in the codex), and the addon sprue adds even more stuff (jump pack?!).
4. Ossiarch & Soulblight. Love the Soulblight character, great model. Ossiarch is alright. Seems like they couldn't even update the cover art of the books. And how old was the Soulblight book again?
5. Horus Heresy – no new tank Also had the hope they would tease more infantry, even if it was just a rendering.
6. Cities of Sigmar – pretty cool. Not what I expected, but cool. Good to see a unique AoS human faction. Only fear is that the models look overly detailed for basic infantry, might be a slog to paint.
7. Underworlds – don't mind the Stormcast, and the Tzeentch warband is amazing. Wish we would have got Horrors in the style of that purple daemon thing!
8. Terminators & Termagaunts – Termis look massive. Probably larger than the already rescaled Chaos Terminators and Space Marine Heroes Series 2 models. Guess it's a rule that Chaos Space Marines must always look slightly out of scale. Termagaunt looks ace, great update.
9. New 40k – I welcome all of it, and I hope they can really keep it to free datasheets plus a single page of army rules in the long run. 9th was really unplayable for the casual player. BUT I don't buy any of that Combat Patrol gunk. Clearly a marketing team invention. Has no synergy with expanding from Kill Team, and I expect that a modern set of wargaming rules allows a rewarding experience on any point level small or big. Hopefully you can easily translate it to 500 pts armies of your own.
Which means that primaris are the same size as original marines, or they perform some leg shortening surgery to get them to fit... :p
Looking at the new termies beside a Primaris marine, it's more that the armor is now too tall for Firstborn to fit in there easily... Legs, torso and eye level match up neatly with Primaris proportions and scaling.
With current primaris models vs 15 year old marine models from a different scale era. The terminators from their era matched them perfectly. And as these aren't supposed to be DIFFERENT terminators, but those exact same ones in a new model, it's pretty clear they've given up caring about dong measuring contests between them...
What you've effectively said is that original marines are just as tall as primaris, because the original marine terminator suit has now also been scaled to the same size. It would be the equivalent of them releasing an updated tactical squad with the same proportions as a primaris.
-new phobos marines with a bolter/combi flamer (and possibly some with that black templar "pyreblaster" type flamer.)
- a new Remdeptor variant with firepower focus, twin lascannon and missle luancher, plus the chin bolters
-new termies (duh)
-new terminator libarian (im pretty sure GW doesnt have one on sale at the moment, or for a while, so new model, considering how prominent he is in the trailer.
im not familiar with the nids range much, but i believe its all new stuff as well.
Really think it's a shame to see 40k being turned into Horus Heresy 2.0 by moving closer to becoming the story of the Primarchs rather than being its own thing. Not a fan of loyalist Primarchs returning in the slightest, going to have a detrimental affect on the setting overall I think. Space Marine are already the centre of attention and now having another of their bestest superheroes suddenly returning to stop the whole Arks of Omen thning becuase oh no they couldn't have a normal character do anything that significant just feels like it's going to make things even worse.
His Master's Voice wrote: So do the new Termies mean older armour designs can potentially be re-engineered for Primaris?
I always felt Primaris were a solution to a customer perception problem, but now that they're here, setting the new benchmark, straight up upscaling older designs seems to potentially be on the cards, which could give us back the classic marks in better proportions.
No because they didn't do anything to re-engineer the armour:
Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.
Which means either primaris can't field them or that's seriously cramped armour for them needing to cram head taller guy into same suit as firstborn
I like that they are revised not fully redesigned, surprised a little that they didn't go with a super thin gaunt appearance, but very solid release. Also excited that I might get gaunts that dont have horrible split head parts that are a nightmare to put together cleanly.
Also the video showed off a lot of things. Looks like we are getting the DOOM Zoanthrope hero, or at least a Zoanthrope style hero with tentacles!
A screamer killer that has a more insectoid head and a design that harkens back to its earlier days (looks like a mix of all 3 generations honestly; the upright of the original; the beetle/insect of the 2nd update and the overall aesthetics of the current).
I also saw biovores and lictors so I really hope those are finally coming in plastic (which I hope means pyrovore gets to come along as well with the bio in an update); which would then mean that Tyranids would have a 100% modern army with 100% no finecast!
AoS side I really wish they'd given the Ossiarchs another unit or such, but it looks like they are getting a support healer for larger things which is welcome and honestly with Seraphon and Cities taking big releases this year AoS isn't hurting overall. The new Vampire leader looks great (even if I'm personally not a big fan of their hats).
Seraphon getting big chunky new cavalry that are, again, really nice to see BIG and detailed as well as more updated old models.
New Tzeentch models look utterly ace!
Overall a really solid slew of releases and our first look at the Cities of Sigmar!!
Seraphon getting big chunky new cavalry that are, again, really nice to see BIG and detailed as well as more updated old models.
Think the saurus cavalry is different unit to old saurus cavalry. Aka the old cavalry kit might be remaining.
Different unit size, different base size and with that different model size. If the old kit doesn't remain then in essence the old cavalry models are without rules to use.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Something to note is that since the new Terminators are basically just upscaled versions of the old ones, they can be used as true scale Indomitus Terminators for the Horus Heresy without having the issue of needing to get rid of any Primaris stuff.
Just make sure you don't confuse them with your contemptors on the tabletop.
-new phobos marines with a bolter/combi flamer (and possibly some with that black templar "pyreblaster" type flamer.)
- a new Remdeptor variant with firepower focus, twin lascannon and missle luancher, plus the chin bolters
-new termies (duh)
-new terminator libarian (im pretty sure GW doesnt have one on sale at the moment, or for a while, so new model, considering how prominent he is in the trailer.
im not familiar with the nids range much, but i believe its all new stuff as well.
Think the saurus cavalry is different unit to old saurus cavalry. Aka the old cavalry kit might be remaining.
Different unit size, different base size and with that different model size. If the old kit doesn't remain then in essence the old cavalry models are without rules to use.
I'm expecting a change in rules for this unit instead. The old kit is oop and the riders would clash drastically with the newly established saurus design. They would also be dwarfed by the new skink riders. If the Seraphon are supposed to be cross compatible with ToW eventually (which is very likely), the old saurus cav would look out of place.
Think the saurus cavalry is different unit to old saurus cavalry. Aka the old cavalry kit might be remaining.
Different unit size, different base size and with that different model size. If the old kit doesn't remain then in essence the old cavalry models are without rules to use.
I'm expecting a change in rules for this unit instead. The old kit is oop and the riders would clash drastically with the newly established saurus design. They would also be dwarfed by the new skink riders. If the Seraphon are supposed to be cross compatible with ToW eventually (which is very likely), the old saurus cav would look out of place.
Agreed and honestly its not the first time GW has upgraded the size of a model. A lot of old mounted units were running around on tiny mounts. I fully expect to one day see GW upgrade the size of regular Seekers for Slaanesh to be closer to the exalted ones.
Wow I can't believe I forgot about this and had breakfast before checking the internet.
My real time reacts, in the order I randomly opened browser tabs:
Seraphon: Pretty cool, bit of a shame Kroxis look like just upscaled Saurus and not their own thing
Lion: Cool model, glad they didn't repeat the obnoxious filigree of Guilliman and made Lion pretty utilitarian looking. But the facial hair looks more appropriate for Russ / Dorn.
Kill Team: Hot damn, the Beastmen look so good they give me shivers. Why were new bestmen of this quality not added to AoS???
Gaunts: Whatever.
Wyrdhollow: My favorite Stormcasts yet, they look really individualistic. The Tzeentch stuff... what the heck am I even looking at? Too weird, too random.
Cities of Sigmar: Pretty cool blinged up medieval soldiers.
Ossiarch and Soulblight heroes: Pretty strong sculpts.
40k new edition: My mind is blown, they are actually doing a full rewrite again. I'll give it a fair shot as I did to every major rewrite before. I do like the new datasheet.
What you've effectively said is that original marines are just as tall as primaris,
No, what I effectively said was that regardless of what they've said in the marketing intro, the new termies are scaled to match Primaris Marines.
Saying 'Either type can fit in there...' is a way to explain fluff wise not having two different terminator kits, and we're just not supposed to think too hard about how that would actually work.
Which means that primaris are the same size as original marines, or they perform some leg shortening surgery to get them to fit... :p
Looking at the new termies beside a Primaris marine, it's more that the armor is now too tall for Firstborn to fit in there easily... Legs, torso and eye level match up neatly with Primaris proportions and scaling.
With current primaris models vs 15 year old marine models from a different scale era. The terminators from their era matched them perfectly. And as these aren't supposed to be DIFFERENT terminators, but those exact same ones in a new model, it's pretty clear they've given up caring about dong measuring contests between them...
What you've effectively said is that original marines are just as tall as primaris, because the original marine terminator suit has now also been scaled to the same size.
It would be the equivalent of them releasing an updated tactical squad with the same proportions as a primaris.
What you've effectively said is that original marines are just as tall as primaris,
No, what I effectively said was that regardless of what they've said in the marketing intro, the new termies are scaled to match Primaris Marines.
Saying 'Either type can fit in there...' is a way to explain fluff wise not having two different terminator kits, and we're just not supposed to think too hard about how that would actually work.
Poor Chaos... always getting the short end of the stick New Termis are much bigger than the recent Chaos Terminators, which have already been upscaled to match the Space Marine Heroes Series 2 models.
What you've effectively said is that original marines are just as tall as primaris,
No, what I effectively said was that regardless of what they've said in the marketing intro, the new termies are scaled to match Primaris Marines.
Saying 'Either type can fit in there...' is a way to explain fluff wise not having two different terminator kits, and we're just not supposed to think too hard about how that would actually work.
Spoiler:
Terminator armour has always been a thing that has bazillion moving parts that can be tightened or loosened around the wearer as appropriate. It's not like suiting particularly tall or muscular individuals was a problem before, it shan't be a problem now either.
I'm just glad they're moving towards the "yeah yeah they're all space marines move on" convergence. Marines are marines, shorter or taller, and sooner we can erase any "nuh-uh their Primaris USB-ports can't dock with this Rhino" distinctions the better.
There was also a Space Woof character noted as being exceptionally large, and having a modified suit of Terminator armour. That’s been canon since 2nd Ed.
That's cute and all but the physical models will be scaled to Primaris, so it's still the Firstborn getting stretched out on a rack to fit in, not the armour being scaled down. Quality water carrying for GW tho.
Think the saurus cavalry is different unit to old saurus cavalry. Aka the old cavalry kit might be remaining.
Different unit size, different base size and with that different model size. If the old kit doesn't remain then in essence the old cavalry models are without rules to use.
I'm expecting a change in rules for this unit instead. The old kit is oop and the riders would clash drastically with the newly established saurus design. They would also be dwarfed by the new skink riders. If the Seraphon are supposed to be cross compatible with ToW eventually (which is very likely), the old saurus cav would look out of place.
oop typical with rebox which would happen with new tome if they stay. Old and new style in same range is typical for GW. And the new models don't exactly look rankable anyway so don't bank on cross compatibility with tow.
oop typical with rebox which would happen with new tome if they stay. Old and new style in same range is typical for GW. And the new models don't exactly look rankable anyway so don't bank on cross compatibility with tow.
Let's hope you are wrong and they have some trick up their sleeve
Lizardmen win that reveal for me. Awesome new version of classic ones. Cities look kinda comical, especially the one from the left with his halfling like face.
9. New 40k – I welcome all of it, and I hope they can really keep it to free datasheets plus a single page of army rules in the long run. 9th was really unplayable for the casual player. BUT I don't buy any of that Combat Patrol gunk. Clearly a marketing team invention. Has no synergy with expanding from Kill Team, and I expect that a modern set of wargaming rules allows a rewarding experience on any point level small or big. Hopefully you can easily translate it to 500 pts armies of your own.
Combat Patrol doesn't read like marketing team, at least to me.
It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
The more I look at The Lion, the more impressed I am.
It’s just a really nice model. Lots of detail without being overly busy. The pose has a real sense of menacing purpose to it. And it may just be the robes, but it feels significantly better proportioned than Guilliman. Though in possibly meagre defence of Guilliman’s model, my thoughts there may be skewed by the Powerfist thing being so prominent.
There’s just a regality and surety of purpose to it, and I love it.
So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Russ already had one of the emperor's spears. Maybe he comes back with that?
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Russ already had one of the emperor's spears. Maybe he comes back with that?
Yeah, the one of the 2 made (another was Apollonian of Valdor) but was it not lost during the batle on Vengeful Spirit? Cannot remember what happened with it.
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Russ has a magic spear, the twin of one that Valdor got from Big E. Dorn could have the power claw, someone can have his laurel wreath thingy. That's before you need to stretch it with the Emperor's bolt gun and so on
I must say that the Cities of Sigmar people are the clear dud for me - i dislike their helmets, they're modelled after real 16th century pieces, but still look like chamberpots to me, and their overall appearance is much too busy imho, although i guess that's largely due to the paintjob - if you picked either one of the red or the orange and stuck to it instead of having both i would look much better. I don't know if it's by accident or by design, but the faces look like specific actors: it's clearly seargant Whoopie Goldberg leading 'Mad Eye' Moody into battle...
9. New 40k – I welcome all of it, and I hope they can really keep it to free datasheets plus a single page of army rules in the long run. 9th was really unplayable for the casual player. BUT I don't buy any of that Combat Patrol gunk. Clearly a marketing team invention. Has no synergy with expanding from Kill Team, and I expect that a modern set of wargaming rules allows a rewarding experience on any point level small or big. Hopefully you can easily translate it to 500 pts armies of your own.
Combat Patrol doesn't read like marketing team, at least to me.
It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
It reads like GW finally realized it needs 1 player starter sets ala Warmachine but had to invent a new format because the bundle boxes that exist aren't balanced vs each other in the game proper.
I feel mixed towards the new indomi termies. While I like the fact that they are chunkier, and simply adore the new double barreled Storm Bolters and the new AC sculpt, I do not like how they changed the proportions of the classic helmet. I will probably use the classic Indomi helmet bits with these new torsos instead. I'm also not a huge fan of the way the lower torso design changed. And also feel salty that SMH2 termies will probably look silly next to these chunky boys.
Not a fan of the new combat patrol box thingy. It's cool for two newbs starting out, they can just both buy a CP box and get cracking, but it's pigeonholing the enitre factions into the contents of those boxes at the same time. A vet player might have a hard time fielding the exact same units in the same numbers against a CP box newb. I don't have a single faction which would qualify for example, and I've invested hundreds if not thousands into the hobby already
Credit where it's due - GW have done some terrible reveal streams over years that they massively overhyped, but this wasn't one of them. They showed a lot of amazing stuff, and gave a really interesting (and a LOT more than I expected) info about tenth edition.
God, imagine they were also going to show off Dante at this thing until last week.
The Lion is a great model. I wasn't actually sure how they'd make him feel very different to his 30k form, but they've really managed to make him feel like an older evolution of that in a much more grimdark world. Nice. Gonna have to magnetise those heads.
New Lizardmen range looks ace and nice preview of Cities (I'm more comfortable with them moving the aesthetic on a bit now TOW is coming, and AOS desperately needs more of a human scale and geography in it's background so hopefully this will help). New Soulblight model is nice, they didn't need too much. Surprised Bonereapers didn't get the rumoured archers.
Beastmen for KT are fine but not super inspiring. Jet pack Votann pleases me more than I thought it would.
The models for 10th look good, and what they showed rules wise all seems to be going in the right direction. Still think they needed to chop more strategems (I would have cut them to two per faction with maybe one extra for variations like Marine Chapters) but moving in the right direction. I suspect that we might end up like eighth, where the games was at it's very best when it first shipped and everything had to be cut down a bit.
I watched lived, and I appreciated the “well let’s kick off with The Lion”.
Their lack of overhyping and just “give the people what they want” was for me, super refreshing.
Quite enjoyed the American chap’s delivery. Definitely enthusiastic, but quite restrained and not gushing. Also really quite knowledgeable about what was being shown off. That informative approach definitely helped elevate it.
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Russ already had one of the emperor's spears. Maybe he comes back with that?
Yeah, the one of the 2 made (another was Apollonian of Valdor) but was it not lost during the batle on Vengeful Spirit? Cannot remember what happened with it.
In modern times afaik, the last time it was seen, Ragnar threw it into Magnus' eye in a portal and it disappeared.
It reads like GW finally realized it needs 1 player starter sets ala Warmachine but had to invent a new format because the bundle boxes that exist aren't balanced vs each other in the game proper.
The weird thing is that the Boarding Patrol boxes feel (for the most part, Abbadon wouldn't have worked obvs) like they might have been a better choice for this than the Combat Patrols are.
It reads like GW finally realized it needs 1 player starter sets ala Warmachine but had to invent a new format because the bundle boxes that exist aren't balanced vs each other in the game proper.
The weird thing is that the Boarding Patrol boxes feel (for the most part, Abbadon wouldn't have worked obvs) like they might have been a better choice for this than the Combat Patrols are.
Agreed, but GW might feel like they don't showcase enough unit types (no tanks, no bikes...)
Oh yeah, Gallowfall. Did I say I love the new extra terrain sprue gubbins!
Beastmen look weirdly quite AoS-y aside from the cybernetics, but there are a couple of tasty sculpts in there. Votann team might be the coolest looking upgrade sprue team yet.
Conclusion: I will be buying the extra terrain and the book for sure, but I will only buy Gallowfall if someone else wants Votann & the IttD terrain sprues which I already have two full sets of. Gallowfall might sell out in a hot second like last time, so could be a long wait to buy the individual kits..
The Lion looks nice and is a big improvement over the ridiculously gaudy parody that Guilliman was of his excellent Forgeworld model.
I can't comment on the new edition as I haven't played the last two. The edition where you got free points in game for spending more money instore managed to suck all remaining interest in playing out of me that was left after the apocalypsification of the base game.
Beastmen for the most part looks like AoS with a few guns and technology bits hamfisted on.
In addition, and I'm fully aware they are meant to be more on the goatey side of beast, that do have slender limbs IRL. It looks so abstract on beastmen though, maybe they're meant to look impoverished bulk and equipment wise aesthetically, but it just makes them look flimsy. The new Kasrkin are surely chunky boys compared to most of them. There's a few chunkier beastmen, but the rank and file look weaker than a Firewarrier tbh.
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
The emperor's throwing stick. Who's the goodest boy? Is it Russ? Who wants to go for walkies?
Dysartes wrote: Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?
Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
I'll give you some credit, at least you're not blaming the players this time...
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
The emperor's throwing stick. Who's the goodest boy? Is it Russ? Who wants to go for walkies?
And now I have in my head an image of Russ sitting on all fours, waiting for a thrown snack
A tremendous reveal, all things considered. I am happy that they did not redesign the Terminators in a major way apart from reproportioning them and modernizing some of the design elements like the weapons.
Dysartes wrote: Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?
Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.
They aren't as well designed as the AoS ones. Apart from the weapon stats (and agree the types should be a column, not an afterthought), nothing is grouped or organized properly. Its just a LOT of dead space with handful of lines of stats in no particular order and a small abilities textblock crammed in on the side (and from a readability perspective, the wrong side- we read from left to right, so the fundamental abilities of the unit should be in a more prominent position, not off over there).
But yes, they don't look 40k, because there's basically nothing in the way of design elements. Crosshair for shooting, crossed mallets for melee and a faction symbol, and a plain (though readable) font. For a full-color card with model pictures, this is bland.
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A surprisingly good preview overall.
Seraphon are amazing, for 40k- recognition that they need to fix things is good (pending actual results) though increasing the scale of battles line is concerning, classic terminators and just shrugging at the primaris divide is fething great (now do it for tactical, assault and devastator squads!), beastmen are interesting at least, tzeentch band is what the changer of ways forces should look like. The Lion model is good (but I still have no interest in SCs, let alone primarchs).
Ossiarchs and HH are the big losers- they needed a lot more than yet another character model. And the heresy preview was... a book cover. Why bother?
Cities of Sigmar models are... existing? They're busy, and some of design elements are not great. (Why bibs rather than tabards? Why silly hats? Why wrapped belts rather than pants?) They do have a warhammer that actually looks like one, though (if still scaled way too large) so points for that.
Dysartes wrote: Question on that datesheet design - why the feth is there not a weapon keyword column, where the terms in brackets on the Fleshborer and "Termagant spinefists" (sigh) lines could live neatly?
Because the people who wrote 10th are still the same people who wrote 9th.
They aren't as well designed as the AoS ones. Apart from the weapon stats (and agree the types should be a column, not an afterthought), nothing is grouped or organized properly. Its just a LOT of dead space with handful of lines of stats in no particular order and a small abilities textblock crammed in on the side (and from a readability perspective, the wrong side- we read from left to right, so the fundamental abilities of the unit should be in a more prominent position, not off over there).
But yes, they don't look 40k, because there's basically nothing in the way of design elements. Crosshair for shooting, crossed mallets for melee and a faction symbol, and a plain (though readable) font. For a full-color card with model pictures, this is bland.
To be fair if they're mainly intended as a playing aid you use at and on the table, 'bland but readable' is much better than flavourful but useless. Ideally it would be both flavourful and useable, of course.
To be fair if they're mainly intended as a playing aid you use at and on the table, 'bland but readable' is much better than flavourful but useless. Ideally it would be both flavourful and useable, of course.
You aren't wrong, but in my head there's a distinction between a full color card with unit pictures they might want you to buy (which is this) and a image-less pdf with statblocks (which is what I'd actually use, to save on printing).
For the 'fancy version,' this is underwhelming.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: We were talking about the Beastmen, not the cards. That's the "too AOS-y" and "not 40k-y" comments.
Ah. The top part was specifically about the datasheets, I hadn't realized you switched topics.
We've done this dance once before, it didn't stick
With explicit rule of three (except battleline, which I note termagants are not [unless they're doing stupid things with boxed set datacards just leaving out rules again]), its honestly not that different from the ark of omen detachment. Its just ditching the pretense.
How it shakes out is another story, but I can see them not touching it until after they redo the codex cycle and start producing filler before 11th edition.
I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
They mentioned First Born and Primaris can now wear Terminator Armour in the video.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
Just properly scaled.
The original Terminators in Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed were titchy wee. 3rd - 9th we got improvements, but still on the diddy side,
We've done this dance once before, it didn't stick
With explicit rule of three (except battleline, which I note termagants are not [unless they're doing stupid things with boxed set datacards just leaving out rules again]), its honestly not that different from the ark of omen detachment. Its just ditching the pretense.
AoS doesn't list Battleline on warscroll cards either. It's all done in the back of the book, under "Battlefield Role".
Automatically Appended Next Post: RIP to the force org chart
Now photoshop Tyrion as one of the small watchers in the dark
I do not know who this Tyrion is that you're talking about, one of the watchers clearly needs to be Sancho Panza:
Spoiler:
'King Arthur' El'Johnson returning as Don Quijote to tilt at both chaotic and imperial windmills alike sounds like a likely plot, anyway.
Who is going to be Mordred and Morgana Le Fay?
Not to drag this too much OP, but Mordred is of course Horus, while Morgana is more difficult to put down, probably Erebus or Lorgar
Anyway, 40k uses Arthurian themes, but it is not itself a straight retelling of the Arthurian myth. Interestingly, it has more parallels with the classic of feminist fantastic literature, 'The mists of Avalon' by Marion Zimmer Bradley, which is in itself a story about religious conflict etc. that relies heavily on Arthurian themes and stories, but does a pretty free interpretation on them. It also appeared 5 years before Warhammer 40k and was very famous in Fantasy and SciFi circles, so it's not impossible that it might actually have influenced the settings interpretation of religion, gods and metaphysics, but that is a story for another time
Mr Morden wrote: I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model
I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.
Mr Morden wrote: I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model
I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.
Actually I could see him treating them just like Tywin Lannister treats his children.
Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.
^ This 'marketing into lore' stuff I read yesterday is just silly. Just stop GW, stop with the marketing and lore excuses.
Any guesses to how OLD the Lion is or was when he went into stasis? The older looking Lionel didn't surprise me, I suspected he would not be as youthful as Guilliman.
Not even Belisarius Cawl is able to improve upon this ancient and holy armour pattern. Any Space Marine Veteran can earn the right to don a sacred suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour, so veterans of the Tyrannic Wars and the Indomitus Crusade alike are clad in these suits of revered ceremite.
^ This 'marketing into lore' stuff I read yesterday is just silly. Just stop GW, stop with the marketing and lore excuses.
Any guesses to how OLD the Lion is or was when he went into stasis? The older looking Lionel didn't surprise me, I suspected he would not be as youthful as Guilliman.
I don't think it's been said he was in stasis, hence the aging. He's just been asleep for 10,000 years.
Mr Morden wrote: I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model
I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.
I'm sleeping (for the last 10K years) and all you lot have been doing is riding around the neighborhood on your bikes and not playing well with any of your cousins .
But certainly there’s little rational reason why the Dark Angels need be quite so secretive.
That's part of their tragedy: Initially, there was not, but their actions over the 10.000 years that followed now have damned them further, and now they actually need to keep it secret, although that may change again with the return of their Primarch.
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
How is it worse?
Because Jumpstart and Code One are specifically designed from the ground up to play that way and the Combat Patrol boxes aren't.
So are the new terminators just properly scaled and not just “rescaled in lore for primaris?” And any older terminator model, even the fairly recent chaos terminators and HH termies, are just stuck being small? I know scale creep is a thing but it’s still a bit annoying that the chaos terminators are stuck at the smaller scale for the foreseeable future
We the reader know most Legions had some traitor element, just as the turncoats still had some loyalist elements.
What I couldn’t tell you is whether that was common knowledge outside of the Primarchs, as it may be a Need To Know thing.
But certainly there’s little rational reason why the Dark Angels need be quite so secretive.
Also interested to see what he makes of the Codex Astartes, as he was tucked up in bed for the Second Founding.
It used to be great mystery of the HH, who were the traitors, was it actually the lion and his buddies or was it Luther’s lot. But now thanks to the god awful HH books there are no mysteries left. Just a much worse story for it.
It used to be great mystery of the HH, who were the traitors, was it actually the lion and his buddies or was it Luther’s lot. But now thanks to the god awful HH books there are no mysteries left. Just a much worse story for it.
It was never a mystery. Luthor's Angels = Traitor, Lion's Angels = Loyalists has been one of the definitive statements in 40K since they first introduced the fall of Caliban.
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
How is it worse?
Because Jumpstart and Code One are specifically designed from the ground up to play that way and the Combat Patrol boxes aren't.
In what way? GW stated that the CP boxes are balanced against each other did they not?
In what way? GW stated that the CP boxes are balanced against each other did they not?
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. There's a huge difference between "designed and planned for this specific way to play(Code One has different rules from "regular" Infinity)" and "These things happen to have the same points values".
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
How is it worse?
Because Jumpstart and Code One are specifically designed from the ground up to play that way and the Combat Patrol boxes aren't.
In what way? GW stated that the CP boxes are balanced against each other did they not?
...have you looked at what's in the currently released Combat Patrol boxes recently, Daed? I'd be very surprised if they were remotely balanced.
Shadow Walker wrote: So one brother got the sword and another got the shield of their father. What will be left for the Russ etc.? A helmet of the Emperor? Maybe a cloak? Or the toothbrush?
Coral will appear and get the Emperor's cool lightning claw fist
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
How is it worse?
Because Jumpstart and Code One are specifically designed from the ground up to play that way and the Combat Patrol boxes aren't.
In what way? GW stated that the CP boxes are balanced against each other did they not?
...have you looked at what's in the currently released Combat Patrol boxes recently, Daed? I'd be very surprised if they were remotely balanced.
I suspect the units will potentially have different rules to normal or an additional army rule or something.
Dysartes wrote: ...have you looked at what's in the currently released Combat Patrol boxes recently, Daed? I'd be very surprised if they were remotely balanced.
I know a couple things are true :
1) There is positively no way for us to verify if the CPs are balanced against each other - we don't have their rules
2) GW has been working on 10th for over a year ( if not two ) and is capable of having planned out these CPs to coincide with this update
So then we have just what GW has to say on the matter: "Combat Patrol pitches small preset and balanced forces against each other"
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
Just properly scaled.
The original Terminators in Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed were titchy wee. 3rd - 9th we got improvements, but still on the diddy side,
These ones are looking to be Just Right.
Too tall though pushing 9 feet when should be 8. Their head should be level with primaris.
Kanluwen wrote: It reads like the Organized Play advocates in the design team read about MTG's "Jumpstart" packs or Infinity's "Code One" and deciding "Hey, let's do that but worse!".
How is it worse?
Because Jumpstart and Code One are specifically designed from the ground up to play that way and the Combat Patrol boxes aren't.
In what way? GW stated that the CP boxes are balanced against each other did they not?
Devil's advocate but we don't know rules yet so hard to say how balanced. As is they were supposed to be balanced in 9e ...have you looked at what's in the currently released Combat Patrol boxes recently, Daed? I'd be very surprised if they were remotely balanced.
Y'know, when plastic Mk6 came out for HH I penned a theory that GW's plan was to slowly blend firstborn and primaris together until we can eventually pretend the split never happened. I imagined this would take 2-3 editions of Codex: Space Marines at least.
And here we are, not a year later, looking at sculpts that in official GW lore represent both Firstborn and Primaris individuals.
tneva82 wrote: Too tall though pushing 9 feet when should be 8. Their head should be level with primaris.
They would be level with the same pose.
lord_blackfang wrote: Y'know, when plastic Mk6 came out for HH I penned a theory that GW's plan was to slowly blend firstborn and primaris together until we can eventually pretend the split never happened. I imagined this would take 2-3 editions of Codex: Space Marines at least.
And here we are, not a year later, looking at sculpts that in official GW lore represent both Firstborn and Primaris individuals.
I'm pretty sure Primaris happened only because GW was afraid of dropping a completely new range of Marines on their customer base. Now that Primaris saturation is high enough, I guess we might see a standardisation of the range down the line.
Don't have much hope for basic MK7s getting the stretch, but maybe Centurions will get a revamp.
Mr Morden wrote: I really find the Lion a boring character (much like the modern emo version of the DA) but I really like his model
I am looking forwards to seeing what the Lion thinks of what his wayward sons have been doing for the last 10k years - that could be very interesting indeed.
Potentially very interesting but GW seem obsessed with keeping the DA as emo idiots so sadly likely nothing will change.
Billicus wrote: It's nonsensical having it at 10pm US to fit with the adepticon schedule, there's like 0.01% of the audience there. I've got no idea why they do it.
Just be glad that you are not there in person, and have one of those early morning games, or presentations that you are supposed to be at...
I had a good time watching it, and the pregame show between Discourse and Mordian Glory were some for the ages.
Love the fact that they didn't screw the new edition up by trying to reinvent Terminators. I have a Nid legion that might finally get some attention after 4th edition that I'll add some big boys to, if they shake out well. For us guard players though... I'm glad I held back buying any more Codexes. The FAQ for the Guard is going to be legend. They need to fire the author.
I'm really cautious about the loss of the psychic phase.
Thousand Sons had a lot of neat stuff and flexibility going on so losing spell selection could be painful, but then not having to juggle as much stuff will be nice.
Also opponents being able to consistently rely on what my units do will make it easier for them and unintentional cheating less likely.
John D Law wrote: Whelp the Lions look definitely quashes the old urban myth that the Dark Angels were the “Native American” marines chapter. ?
I always got very clear knights templar vibes, especially with the inner circle, robes, inquisitorial nature, and knightly order aesthetic. The inspiration is kind of obvious.
Black Templars are obviously inspired by the Teutonic Knights, down to the iconography, so the name is a bit of a misnomer. Along with the Bretonians and the Empire, they're actually all pretty on the nose.
Side note, but I adore the fact that the Lion has a shield now. And the classic black legionary armor with knightly plate. I wouldn't mind some legionary armor colors in his honor guard, especially considering how good the Forgeworld heresy era DA stuff looks (the art, too).
It is going to be absolutely fascinating to see where they take the whole backstory with the Dark Angels, now. Because now we have the man, in the flesh.
For anyone who doesn't like that he's "old," put the helmet on....or even consider using the Forgeworld heresy model as a proxy.
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm really cautious about the loss of the psychic phase.
Thousand Sons had a lot of neat stuff and flexibility going on so losing spell selection could be painful, but then not having to juggle as much stuff will be nice.
Also opponents being able to consistently rely on what my units do will make it easier for them and unintentional cheating less likely.
Net positive, I guess.
Psychic Phase didn't need to be a separate thing from the Command Phase.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
Just properly scaled.
The original Terminators in Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed were titchy wee. 3rd - 9th we got improvements, but still on the diddy side,
These ones are looking to be Just Right.
Too tall though pushing 9 feet when should be 8. Their head should be level with primaris.
I dunno man, they look pretty level to me. Putting something straight between them the Primaris’s eyes are slightly lower, but the terminator is stood straighter. There’s certainly not a foot in it.
lord_blackfang wrote: Y'know, when plastic Mk6 came out for HH I penned a theory that GW's plan was to slowly blend firstborn and primaris together until we can eventually pretend the split never happened. I imagined this would take 2-3 editions of Codex: Space Marines at least.
And here we are, not a year later, looking at sculpts that in official GW lore represent both Firstborn and Primaris individuals.
I think you've got it right...or close enough so as to not make much of a difference a very short time from now!
Terminators are drawn from a Chapter’s 1st Company, Space Marines who have proven themselves in battle time and time again. They can be veteran warriors who have fought for the Chapter for centuries or Primaris Marines who have joined more recently – either can wear a suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour if they’ve earned the right.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
Just properly scaled.
The original Terminators in Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed were titchy wee. 3rd - 9th we got improvements, but still on the diddy side,
These ones are looking to be Just Right.
Compared to Primaris? yes they are properly scaled even tho GW claim they are not "Primaris Terminators"...
Compared to firstborn? They are terribly scaled.
Also, if that kit is compatible with HH (as the rumour says), they now need to upscale Cataphractii and Tartaros kits which will look comically squatty.
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm really cautious about the loss of the psychic phase.
Thousand Sons had a lot of neat stuff and flexibility going on so losing spell selection could be painful, but then not having to juggle as much stuff will be nice.
Also opponents being able to consistently rely on what my units do will make it easier for them and unintentional cheating less likely.
Net positive, I guess.
Psychic Phase didn't need to be a separate thing from the Command Phase.
I don't really disagree, but it seems like the whole concept of denials will be dead outside of wargear like psychic hoods.
I think that's a huge positive for psyker light armies going up against me. Their spells won't be dead in the water.
The nature of spells on sheets means less flexibility though, but as mentioned - better for everyone overall.
The nature of spells on sheets means less flexibility though, but as mentioned - better for everyone overall.
Spells on sheets doesn't mean there won't be a faction specific spell list. AoS Wizards have spells on their Warscrolls, the generic spells, and 1(or more) selections from a Faction Spell list.
Maybe, but if they're sticking to the 1 or 2 sheets for the army it will be very difficult to fit the 24+ spells I can access. Stuff will have to get cut. I'm not particularly upset about it, but it will be a long 3 months. Hopefully they start teasing more next week.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
In the live stream they say that Terminator Armor is now used by Primaris and First Born.
Daedalus81 wrote: Maybe, but if they're sticking to the 1 or 2 sheets for the army it will be very difficult to fit the 24+ spells I can access. Stuff will have to get cut. I'm not particularly upset about it, but it will be a long 3 months. Hopefully they start teasing more next week.
24+ spells currently, I suspect that will get cut down to smite +1-2 others per card.
Daedalus81 wrote: Maybe, but if they're sticking to the 1 or 2 sheets for the army it will be very difficult to fit the 24+ spells I can access. Stuff will have to get cut. I'm not particularly upset about it, but it will be a long 3 months. Hopefully they start teasing more next week.
24+ spells currently, I suspect that will get cut down to smite +1-2 others per card.
After a night of sleep I still like what GW is doing with 10th so far, however as a TS player I am a bit worried about the lack of a physic phase. Previously in 3rd -5th where physic powers were done in the normal phases other than a few outliers (doom, guide, lash of SL) the vast majority of physic powers were pointless or just inferior shooting to other options. I hope that they make physic shooting/combat actually good compared to normal shooting, especially if there is still a perils/deny mechanism. Also I hope there are more buff/debuff abilities that are useful then in previous editions so physic powers don't just become only more shooting (which was really what they were in most of 3rd-5th)
After a night of sleep I still like what GW is doing with 10th so far, however as a TS player I am a bit worried about the lack of a physic phase. Previously in 3rd -5th where physic powers were done in the normal phases other than a few outliers (doom, guide, lash of SL) the vast majority of physic powers were pointless or just inferior shooting to other options. I hope that they make physic shooting/combat actually good compared to normal shooting, especially if there is still a perils/deny mechanism. Also I hope there are more buff/debuff abilities that are useful then in previous editions so physic powers don't just become only more shooting (which was really what they were in most of 3rd-5th)
- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition
RedSarge wrote: Calling it right now, the new Terminators are NOT multi-part kits. [Look at the waist/belt]
By which you mean you can't pointlessly rotate the hips?
Automatically Appended Next Post: If Primaris figured out how to wear Firstborn armour maybe they'll figure out how to squeeze into a Land Raider, too.
There now exist legal plastic models representing the same unit with like... TWO FEET of height difference (2nd ed plastic termies vs these). I think this release cements it for me that GW no longer uses a set scale in any meaningful capacity and you can just do a mishmash of whatever.
Lionel Johnson's model is not radically different from his current 30K model. I wonder if anyone would raise a stink about me just using the 30K model in my 40K games?
John D Law wrote: Whelp the Lions look definitely quashes the old urban myth that the Dark Angels were the “Native American” marines chapter. ?
Urban myth, nothing. That was explicit text in the Deathwing short story.
Spoiler:
I think what happened is the DW origin story was written, then a studio guy made some personal conversions, then the official studio scheme started incorporating the iconography and then they released the 90s metals that many are familiar with (timeline in spoilered images). Is it really thought to be urban myth or is that a joke? I've never heard this take before so I'm not sure.
cuda1179 wrote: Lionel Johnson's model is not radically different from his current 30K model. I wonder if anyone would raise a stink about me just using the 30K model in my 40K games?
If they are the same size I can't imagine anyone complaining.
warboss wrote: I like that they kept the style of Terminators but I'm curious if the size bump is accompanied by primarisized marines now also being able to use the armor.
Spoiler:
In the live stream they say that Terminator Armor is now used by Primaris and First Born.
Thanks. Hopefully they'll confirm that in writing and the primaris won't get blatantly better weaponry than that of firstborn. On the plus side, I suppose my counts-as-Deathwing army just got a promotion to primaris then if they don't change weaponry.
edit: Took another look at warcom and it looks like they did also confirm it there as well in writing.
Terminators are drawn from a Chapter’s 1st Company, Space Marines who have proven themselves in battle time and time again. They can be veteran warriors who have fought for the Chapter for centuries or Primaris Marines who have joined more recently – either can wear a suit of Tactical Dreadnought armour if they’ve earned the right. Their armoury includes storm bolters, power fists, and the monstrously powerful assault cannon pictured here.
- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition
This is why Valrak is such a weird source for rumours - like some of this stuff, bang on the money, but was really any of this a stretch to just.. guess at?
Goose LeChance wrote: Finally after decades we get good Terminator models, no more skinny legs. And now we can pretend Aggressors never happened.
But watch them be 3 per box now that they've lowered everyone's standards again.
Terminators are a bit too iconic I think. I think a box like the Heavy Intercessors. From the descriptions and stream it sounds like they still plan to keep the basic and assault versions separate kits though.
Late to the party here and only managed to catch up after work...
Right! What have they done to my nids? Nothing! For 20 years I hoped for a redesign of these freaking cool creatures and what I got after the wait? Slight cosmetic tweaks! Really is that it?! Another couple decades of this? No way, if this is the most fast evolving race in the galaxy they sure don't evolve at all!
Smaller, slimmer, scarier and with natural looking bioweapons rather than holding silly guns with magazines on their hands, a ground up revamp is what I wished for a gaunt. Got none of that.
If the incoming nids are this level of "update" then I can say that Im already served with the old models and nu_nids are officially not something worth more of my time.
Not upset, even if I sound like it, just very disappointed at this Gigantic missed chance to take these alien creatures beyond 2001 concepts. Its been done to death for too long... just move.
The other releases were cool but I was really curious for these.
More exited with the add on sprue for the Votann KT to be honest. Which says a lot.
NAVARRO wrote: Late to the party here and only managed to catch up after work...
Right! What have they done to my nids? Nothing! For 20 years I hoped for a redesign of these freaking cool creatures and what I got after the wait? Slight cosmetic tweaks! Really is that it?! Another couple decades of this? No way, if this is the most fast evolving race in the galaxy they sure don't evolve at all!
Smaller, slimmer, scarier and with natural looking bioweapons rather than holding silly guns with magazines on their hands, a ground up revamp is what I wished for a gaunt. Got none of that.
If the incoming nids are this level of "update" then I can say that Im already served with the old models and nu_nids are officially not something worth more of my time.
Not upset, even if I sound like it, just very disappointed at this Gigantic missed chance to take these alien creatures beyond 2001 concepts. Its been done to death for too long... just move.
The other releases were cool but I was really curious for these.
More exited with the add on sprue for the Votann KT to be honest. Which says a lot.
it is wierd - constantly making different versions of marines but not the super fast evolving hive swarms.
It used to be great mystery of the HH, who were the traitors, was it actually the lion and his buddies or was it Luther’s lot. But now thanks to the god awful HH books there are no mysteries left. Just a much worse story for it.
It was never a mystery. Luthor's Angels = Traitor, Lion's Angels = Loyalists has been one of the definitive statements in 40K since they first introduced the fall of Caliban.
Yeah, the 'mystery' came from the internet meme-ing after Gav Thorpe's Angels of Darkness novel featured a Fallen claiming that the loyalists were actually the bad guys. People jumped on it as gospel, and before long the internet was flooded with memes about DA being traitors. It was never really a thing in the DA back story, though. Just an in-universe comment from a Fallen that was taken way out of context.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I dont think there are going to be Primaris Terminators or Firstborn Terminators, just a unit of Terminators.
Hopefully it'll be just a statline upgrade with all options available to both.
I really doubt there will be separate statlines. They'll just be terminators.
That may or may not be forced to matter if we get mechanisms where the 'Primaris' keyword matters, but if that is the case of course remains to be seen.
- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition
This is why Valrak is such a weird source for rumours - like some of this stuff, bang on the money, but was really any of this a stretch to just.. guess at?
What are you saying, you think it's still possible he's not got a legit contact and the stuff he got right was accurate guesses of obvious stuff? I'm neither a Valrak appreciator nor denier (years ago I was subbed for about a week and found him irritating) but even so this would seem to me to be some very weak copium. Denying he doesn't have a contact and is therefore a weird source is no longer credible.
- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition
This is why Valrak is such a weird source for rumours - like some of this stuff, bang on the money, but was really any of this a stretch to just.. guess at?
What are you saying, you think it's still possible he's not got a legit contact and the stuff he got right was accurate guesses of obvious stuff? I'm neither a Valrak appreciator nor denier (years ago I was subbed for about a week and found him irritating) but even so this would seem to me to be some very weak copium. Denying he doesn't have a contact and is therefore a weird source is no longer credible.
In other videos he 'guessed' all 4 helmet options and the weapons loadout on Ol'Lionel correctly, or the Beastmen v. Votann Killteam box. That sure is some guessing alright!
His Master's Voice wrote: Did the Epic rumour come from the same source that was correct about new Termies vs Nids starter?
Valrak said this.
He said the same source who told him about 10th Edition and the simplification of the new Rules in 40k, told him also about Epic.
Valrak is a mixed bag, clearly he has some sources but he also takes credit for a whole lot of stuff that is floating around online that has nothing to do with his sources.
His Master's Voice wrote: Did the Epic rumour come from the same source that was correct about new Termies vs Nids starter?
Valrak said this.
He said the same source who told him about 10th Edition and the simplification of the new Rules in 40k, told him also about Epic.
Valrak knows nothing. He started the rumours well after they were already appearing on the forums. I wouldn't use his 'knowledge' as the basis for any speculation.
Before all this I would have said he gets a lot of things right that are fairly easy guesses or others were already saying similar things to, but unless I've missed something he mentioned things that no one else had. Like 4 different helmet options for the Lion.
- Blood Angels and Dark Angels are getting significant new stuff and he will have more details this week.
- Kill Team is getting a plastic Striking Scorpion versus Space Marine Scouts set.
- He said (and said last night) that the new Lizardmen range is dual use for TOW, but he didn't say that's from his good source so not entirely sure if that's speculation.
- He's heard that the Lion Guard unit are supposed to be in a launch box for the Lion, but thinks it is odd they weren't shown last night if that was true.
His Master's Voice wrote: Did the Epic rumour come from the same source that was correct about new Termies vs Nids starter?
Valrak said this.
He said the same source who told him about 10th Edition and the simplification of the new Rules in 40k, told him also about Epic.
Valrak knows nothing. He started the rumours well after they were already appearing on the forums. I wouldn't use his 'knowledge' as the basis for any speculation.
Before all this I would have said he gets a lot of things right that are fairly easy guesses or others were already saying similar things to, but unless I've missed something he mentioned things that no one else had. Like 4 different helmet options for the Lion.
He did not only mention specifically 4, he called out what they would be precisely, i.e. bare head, helmet head, cowl head and cowl with facemask. It is possible that you could guess that accurately, but once you deliver 'guesses' of that quality every couple of weeks it stretches belief that they're still guesses at all.
- Blood Angels and Dark Angels are getting significant new stuff and he will have more details this week.
- Kill Team is getting a plastic Striking Scorpion versus Space Marine Scouts set.
- He said (and said last night) that the new Lizardmen range is dual use for TOW, but he didn't say that's from his good source so not entirely sure if that's speculation.
His Master's Voice wrote: Did the Epic rumour come from the same source that was correct about new Termies vs Nids starter?
Valrak said this.
He said the same source who told him about 10th Edition and the simplification of the new Rules in 40k, told him also about Epic.
Valrak is a mixed bag, clearly he has some sources but he also takes credit for a whole lot of stuff that is floating around online that has nothing to do with his sources.
I am definitely saving cash for the end of this year. Epic 30K would be...EPIC!
Segersgia wrote: Striking Scorpions sounds a strange kit for Kill Team, though, especially if it is still five a unit...
Especially since the Rangers are RIGHT THERE...
Rangers are already in plastic. A new box set starter for Kill Team would justify 2 new kits plus new terrain, like Octarius had. Striking Scorpions make more sense for a kill team unit of infiltrators than warp spyders, swooping hawks, or fire dragons. Space Marine scouts as a new kit could replace two of the current oldest SM kits, and tie into the new edition release of Marines.
Half of the KT releases have been things that already exist with a new hat. Don't see why that couldn't also include Rangers.
Yeah, Scorps would be nicer, but are they going to give you 10 in the box?
We had 2 Kill Team Seasons so far. From what they wrote, Gallowfall will indeed be the end of Season 2.
Every season had 4 boxed releases and extras. Every first boxed set had 2 entirely new products. The 3 boxes after that were always 1 new product and 1 existing product with an upgrade sprue.
So chances are, next box will again be 2 entirely new products.
Nothing stops GW from increasing the unit size of Scorpions to 10 in 40K, it's a new edition after all.
Half of the KT releases have been things that already exist with a new hat. Don't see why that couldn't also include Rangers.
Yeah, Scorps would be nicer, but are they going to give you 10 in the box?
why not? the transition from resin to plastic would make this easy enough, and the previous eldar kill teams are 9-10 strong already so a scorp kill team would need to be that size anyway (unless they make each scorpion as powerful as a space marine, who are the factions that run 6 model kill teams). Rangers got a new kit recently, so why not use this chance to retire some of the old resin finecast? It gets another new 40k useful kit into the eldars hands, fits with the scorpions being a "infiltration and strike" unit compared to the rangers more "scout and observe" type sneakiness. maybe do an "upgrade sprue" for the rangers at some point down the line.
new scouts are also a potential option, especially if they took this chance to do what they have with the termies and canonise the scouts as being mixed primaris-firstborn (or rather, undifferentiated at this stage of training and recruitment, with the split being later in the pipeline). that said, im less certian about this one. the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit. we saw a new phobos marine type in the trailer (armed with combi-flamers and combi-meltas). maybe they are the new "scout" type for a kill team box?
Half of the KT releases have been things that already exist with a new hat. Don't see why that couldn't also include Rangers.
Yeah, Scorps would be nicer, but are they going to give you 10 in the box?
why not? the transition from resin to plastic would make this easy enough, and the previous eldar kill teams are 9-10 strong already so a scorp kill team would need to be that size anyway (unless they make each scorpion as powerful as a space marine, who are the factions that run 6 model kill teams). Rangers got a new kit recently, so why not use this chance to retire some of the old resin finecast? It gets another new 40k useful kit into the eldars hands, fits with the scorpions being a "infiltration and strike" unit compared to the rangers more "scout and observe" type sneakiness. maybe do an "upgrade sprue" for the rangers at some point down the line.
new scouts are also a potential option, especially if they took this chance to do what they have with the termies and canonise the scouts as being mixed primaris-firstborn (or rather, undifferentiated at this stage of training and recruitment, with the split being later in the pipeline). that said, im less certian about this one. the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit. we saw a new phobos marine type in the trailer (armed with combi-flamers and combi-meltas). maybe they are the new "scout" type for a kill team box?
Because GW seem set on making all aspect infantry boxes 5 models - see dire avengers, dark reapers and howling banshees. GW could put two sets of scorpions in the box, but when they come out they will be a ridiculously expensive 5 man box.
I wouldn't have a problem if those 5 man boxes that cost as much as 10 primaris were actually worth 10 primaris, but they're all still T3 W1 models.
xerxeskingofking wrote: the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit.
xerxeskingofking wrote: the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit.
xerxeskingofking wrote: the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit.
Hint - the year in the URL is not their release year.
fair enough, i wasn't 100% sure how old that kit was. and yes, i went off the url date because i didn't have anything better to date off, and wasn't about to trawl the internet to get a specific date. I only really got back into the hobby in late 2020, i dont really know the ages of a lot of stuff form before that point.
So, maybe they *will* replace the scout kit as well.
xerxeskingofking wrote: the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit.
Hint - the year in the URL is not their release year.
fair enough, i wasn't 100% sure how old that kit was. and yes, i went off the url date because i didn't have anything better to date off, and wasn't about to trawl the internet to get a specific date. I only really got back into the hobby in late 2020, i dont really know the ages of a lot of stuff form before that point.
So, maybe they *will* replace the scout kit as well.
Just for ease of reference they were iirc without googling, released in early 4th ed? They'll be at/coming up to drinking age.
Just for ease of reference they were iirc without googling, released in early 4th ed? They'll be at/coming up to drinking age.
hmm, i was active back then, but don't remember those form that time. then again, i dropped out around the 5e launch and didn't play marines at that time, so it might just be i never noticed.
RazorEdge wrote: I'm just curious to see Epic getting official announced or teased.
It was mentioned many times on those "40 Years of Warhammer" Articles on WarCom...
BTW; Valrak mentioned that he expect Epic not at the End of the Year but for an "earlier" release.
Epic being mentioned often is not a sure sign for anything, it was a 'core game' for many years and many designs that we nowadays see in 40k originated from there. Displaying it prominently in a history article makes sense.
That being said, i can't really see it release earlier in the year, we know a lot of the release slots already, then there'll have to be a glut of 40k releases, the earliest i could see it happen is in mid-late autumn. But who knows, release schedules have been crazy for some time.
xerxeskingofking wrote: the current plastic scout kit is only a few years old, it might make a nice base for a "upgrade kit" kill team but im a touch leery of them retiring a 3 year old plastic kit.
Hint - the year in the URL is not their release year.
fair enough, i wasn't 100% sure how old that kit was. and yes, i went off the url date because i didn't have anything better to date off, and wasn't about to trawl the internet to get a specific date. I only really got back into the hobby in late 2020, i dont really know the ages of a lot of stuff form before that point.
So, maybe they *will* replace the scout kit as well.
Just for ease of reference they were iirc without googling, released in early 4th ed? They'll be at/coming up to drinking age.
They came out not long after I started, which was 2005. I remember the new kit being shown in White Dwarf.
RedSarge wrote: Calling it right now, the new Terminators are NOT multi-part kits. [Look at the waist/belt]
No, they’re almost certainly the ones from the starter. I’d imagine a full kit will follow though.
But what an odd choice? We had Betrayal at Calth [multi-part] then Prospero [again, multipart] then after that a Mk6 box that was completely in the other direction.
Must be real cheap for GW to make or use aluminum moulds for these FOMO boxes.
lord_blackfang wrote:
RedSarge wrote: Calling it right now, the new Terminators are NOT multi-part kits. [Look at the waist/belt]
By which you mean you can't pointlessly rotate the hips?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that's the only thing you did with multi-part models I play a Let's see if GW can turn the entire industry into copying them with cut apart CAD sculpts. After all, they ARE the hobby.
GW will be the only company not making multi-part, multi-pose friendly plastic kits. I'll never get why someone would argue for LESS capability from there $70 box of troops.
I would love new striking scorpions! And it would make perfect GW logic to have them locked in a kill team box.
The problem with aspect warriors though, is they take a pride in beeing unflexible and more or less religiously hold on to their fixed gear. It would be really dull for a kill team, in my oppinion.
Segersgia wrote: Striking Scorpions sounds a strange kit for Kill Team, though, especially if it is still five a unit...
Herohammer team - 1 super exarch, 5 scorpions. You could do a mixed aspect team, but that isn't very fluffy. Get around fixed load out with a larger than normal selection of tricks, ploys, etc.
I would like a ranger team, but if the mainstay weapon was the sniper rifle they could be tricky to implement.
Honestly after Cities of Sigmar I hope the next army in AoS to get a big update is Flesheater Courts. I'm kind of surprised they didn't get an update already as part of the Soulblight updates since they share most of the models with them (only the ghouls don't carry over pretty much).
They've such a tiny range and so few modern models, even Fyreslayers have more modern models, even if they are equally a tiny force
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
Will Epic be a HH product that only includes the imperial planes? Or will it be a 40k product that includes other factions? My money's on the former.
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
Will Epic be a HH product that only includes the imperial planes? Or will it be a 40k product that includes other factions? My money's on the former.
Will HH only one sell enough to let it survive? I hope that they would make the right decision, and we will see a proper 40k mass battles.
If they go The Old Way, with infantry boxes jam packed with unit types? You can cover off a given army really pretty quickly. More so for those races that tend to use a single chassis with different guns for tank variation, as those could also be single boxes.
If they go The Old Way, with infantry boxes jam packed with unit types? You can cover off a given army really pretty quickly. More so for those races that tend to use a single chassis with different guns for tank variation, as those could also be single boxes.
With HH it would be very easy indeed but do the people want to play a game of mass battles with majority armies being SM variations? I think there is where 40k can really shine with all those units mentioned only in fluff, now being fieldable because the scale. All the variety of dozens of factions vs SM sometimes mixed with Mechanicum or IA and their dark equivalents (if the game even lives as long to introduce them).
If they go The Old Way, with infantry boxes jam packed with unit types? You can cover off a given army really pretty quickly. More so for those races that tend to use a single chassis with different guns for tank variation, as those could also be single boxes.
With HH it would be very easy indeed but do the people want to play a game of mass battles with majority armies being SM variations? I think there is where 40k can really shine with all those units mentioned only in fluff, now being fieldable because the scale. All the variety of dozens of factions vs SM sometimes mixed with Mechanicum or IA and their dark equivalents (if the game even lives as long to introduce them).
Starting with HH is still the commercially most safe and viable move, as you can do Marines, Titans, Mechanicus and Imperial Army/Guard still firmly under the HH 'red on blue' system, then begin opening up with stuff like Demons, Demon Engines and highly-corrupted stuff, then expand Squats, Eldar and Orks as Xenos that existed in the Great Crusade era, and then there's not much left to port the game to Epic 40k: Tyranids, T'au, Necrons and bits and bobs for other factions. That gives you all the opportunities you could ever want to expand to a full-blown game or abandon the line whenever you want and still have a 'complete' game, albeit with few expansions.
If they go The Old Way, with infantry boxes jam packed with unit types? You can cover off a given army really pretty quickly. More so for those races that tend to use a single chassis with different guns for tank variation, as those could also be single boxes.
With HH it would be very easy indeed but do the people want to play a game of mass battles with majority armies being SM variations? I think there is where 40k can really shine with all those units mentioned only in fluff, now being fieldable because the scale. All the variety of dozens of factions vs SM sometimes mixed with Mechanicum or IA and their dark equivalents (if the game even lives as long to introduce them).
Starting with HH is still the commercially most safe and viable move, as you can do Marines, Titans, Mechanicus and Imperial Army/Guard still firmly under the HH 'red on blue' system, then begin opening up with stuff like Demons, Demon Engines and highly-corrupted stuff, then expand Squats, Eldar and Orks as Xenos that existed in the Great Crusade era, and then there's not much left to port the game to Epic 40k: Tyranids, T'au, Necrons and bits and bobs for other factions. That gives you all the opportunities you could ever want to expand to a full-blown game or abandon the line whenever you want and still have a 'complete' game, albeit with few expansions.
I guess we will know it after, judging by the rumours, almost a year of waiting. Assuming it will ever happen
If they go The Old Way, with infantry boxes jam packed with unit types? You can cover off a given army really pretty quickly. More so for those races that tend to use a single chassis with different guns for tank variation, as those could also be single boxes.
With HH it would be very easy indeed but do the people want to play a game of mass battles with majority armies being SM variations? I think there is where 40k can really shine with all those units mentioned only in fluff, now being fieldable because the scale. All the variety of dozens of factions vs SM sometimes mixed with Mechanicum or IA and their dark equivalents (if the game even lives as long to introduce them).
Starting with HH is still the commercially most safe and viable move, as you can do Marines, Titans, Mechanicus and Imperial Army/Guard still firmly under the HH 'red on blue' system, then begin opening up with stuff like Demons, Demon Engines and highly-corrupted stuff, then expand Squats, Eldar and Orks as Xenos that existed in the Great Crusade era, and then there's not much left to port the game to Epic 40k: Tyranids, T'au, Necrons and bits and bobs for other factions. That gives you all the opportunities you could ever want to expand to a full-blown game or abandon the line whenever you want and still have a 'complete' game, albeit with few expansions.
I guess we will know it after, judging by the rumours, almost a year of waiting. Assuming it will ever happen
Yeah, there's no use in building castles in the clouds for now, GW is gonna GW anyway As long as they don't do something daft like collectible randomized miniatures in blind buy boosters it's gonna be not great, not terrible and at worst we'll just ignore it and play fan versions while salvaging some of the models.
I'd prefer they just... expand Titanicus. It's such a good game system, and there's still plenty of titans, both loyalist and traitor, to do, on top of adding xenos and other things.
Aeronautica has great models but meh rules. Nothing that really helps it stand out against competition. If I were GW, I'd start Epic there, by adding tanks to Aeronautica and putting the planes on different bases.
assaulters. |: T
New Termis are much bigger than the recent Chaos Terminators, which have already been upscaled to match the Space Marine Heroes Series 2 models.
