Missile crisis suits are 48 points per damage vs T7/3+ equivalent. That's not bad, but 40PPD is the benchmark to aim for with dedicated AT.
They are assault weapons so they can move and shoot. They have solid range.
But they're still just a wee bit overpriced.
Missilesides are around 36PPD, and far more durable. Even with TL instead of ATS, they're at 49.5 PPD, while being nearly as mobile (No fly) as Crisis, far more durable and having missiles that can also fire out of LOS.
Unless they made crisis possible troops again, there really isn't a good reason to take them.
Though, there may be an argument to taking fusion/cib bombs. They are both mid/high 20s PPD without any strats/markerlights. With fly they can jump from BLOS to BLOS and try to pick off targets of opportunity. Still talking close to 250 pts for 9 T5 wounds, which isn't great in a world where everyone has to be equipped to deal with knights.
I'd say they went from unplayable trash to completely playable in casual, and possibly niche uses in competitive.
Pottsey wrote: Why is it absurd? The broadside only puts out 8 missile pod shots and 8 weaker smart missile shots which is only 16shots. The crisis 3 man team put out 18 missile pod shots. Plus you can get a larger squad of Crisis and give the entire squad reroll miss and reroll wounds. It looks to me like it is very much competing against missile broadsides as those missile pod Crisis teams can wipe out very large targets in turn 1 in 1 volley. Points per heavy missile looks to work out better on Crisis over Broadsides.
You also missed Cyclic Ion Blasters possible the best weapon to use on Crisis far better then plasma, burst or flamers.
Its because unless I am doing something wrong a Broadside with missiles and ATS now costs 121 points.
Whereas three triple missile crisis suits costs 216.
If you were to say ditch the ATS (don't) you could almost get 2 broadsides for the cost of 3 missile crisis suits.18 missiles, vs 16 missiles plus 16 smart missile shots. Also a better save and more combined wounds. The broadsides have the downside of being heavy but that's about it.
By my mathhammer at least the pod (either 3 straight up, or 2 with ATS) suffers from a real absence of optimal targets. The triple pod gets good scores against Ravagers - which is nice I guess - and as you say, Ions are better.
The problem with crisis suits is finding the sweet spot between doing damage yourself and not offering your opponent a points pinata. Crisis suits with pods or ion blasters offer an efficient return for almost every unit in the game. You can cover them with hordes of drones - but that is expensive. Would manta striking in with 9 Ion shots for a bit under 250 points be "worth it"? I'm not convinced in a world where apparently Ravagers are "fine".
I think the changes have made Crisis suits less of a handicap if you want to bring them along to casual games - tbf the plasma variant is quite good against MEQ armies (if you have a friend who plays Primaris etc) - but I am not convinced they are any closer to being a competitive tournament choice.
My "try to make it work" unit is the Piranha. With a fusion blaster you pay 7 points more than the equivalent crisis suit. You lose a point of armour but gain 3 wounds. At the same time you have double the speed and when it dies you get 1-2 drones who can keep grabbing objectives. Its not a beat stick, but in terms of winning games it could have a place.
What I was thinking was you can have up to 9 Crisis with triple missile pods all benefiting from CNC and Kauyon which is a far more a deadly volley then what you can get out of Broadsides.
Not sure I would take as many as 9 but when you start looking at synergy wouldn’t a larger Crisis suit team with CNC and Kayoun outperform a broadside squad with CNC and Kayoun at least the first turn or two?
Enforcers commanders with CIB are the best thing Tau have. Affordable crisis gives you a unit you can move up with your enforcers - give them SG and 2 missle pod and they are tough to bring down and can reach out and touch backfield units (These are things broadsides can't do) they can also advance and shoot on marker lighted targets without penalty making them pretty quick.
You can also use them to push markerlight drones up the feild with a drone controler and probably just cheap guns like plasma or burst cannons. Stealth suits might do this better though.
They seem about the right price for what you get - but they aren't worth taking FB or CIB on. That tips them over the edge point wise.
Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.
My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.
Xirax wrote: Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.
My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.
That's one mean maneuver for sure.
That's the ColdStar commander who can move 20" and advance 20" with fly. Unless they lose a weapon and take Target Lock they do get -1 to hit for advancing.
With the wall they can move over the wall for free but they cannot move though a wall in an enclosed building.
With the Relic Vectored Manoeuvring thruster they get an extra 6" move after shooting.
EDIT: Before the FAQ that was legal, after the newest FAQ fly is in the movement phase only and that 6" move cannot use the fly rule. Its a very easy change to miss. The Tau player could have easily have made a mistake as it used to be allowed.
Question regarding the new point costs. Is it worth getting a taunar now? I love the model its gorgeous. But i dobt know if i will be able to use it. Against 5 knight lists it must be awesome but its hard to put into a 2000 point list. Isnt it better to just bring 3 yvahras? Or its a model for 3000 and up games?
Also i fear that they can just nerf it back to 2000 points any time...
Xirax wrote: Hey,
Quick question from an opponent. I pöayed against Tau today.. Man you get some serious fire power.
My opponent had a commander and he maneuvered 40" move ignoring all terrain/units and move and advanced inside a building, shot and flew 6" outside building through a solid wall outside of line of sight. My question is this: Is all movement done by jetpacks counted as flying, in this case, advancing and that 6" 1cp strat. On the Meq & jumppack side we can only use our jumppacks for only once/turn.
That's one mean maneuver for sure.
That's the ColdStar commander who can move 20" and advance 20" with fly. Unless they lose a weapon and take Target Lock they do get -1 to hit for advancing.
With the wall they can move over the wall for free but they cannot move though a wall in an enclosed building.
With the Relic Vectored Manoeuvring thruster they get an extra 6" move after shooting.
EDIT: Before the FAQ that was legal, after the newest FAQ fly is in the movement phase only and that 6" move cannot use the fly rule. Its a very easy change to miss. The Tau player could have easily have made a mistake as it used to be allowed.
It's a bit of a TFG move but as it's just move 6" in the shooting phase, and not asif the movement phase, technically your not bound by the movement phase rules.
I wouldn't play it like that but it's a wierd little oversight. Presumably to stop coldstars doing 80" across the board
At work, so I don't have my book on me, do drones have a rule like 6/7th where they cannot take objectives? B/C if not, the now 58 pt piranhas are annoying objective holders to deal with. Hardly resilient, but with the emergency disembark rules, enemy shoots at the piranhas, they die, now we have a new (no credit for kill points) drone unit per piranha. So 3 piranha go, 6 t5W 4+ to chew through, then 2 more (5/6 of the time) t4 4+ 1 unit at a time to chew through after that
Pottsey wrote: What I was thinking was you can have up to 9 Crisis with triple missile pods all benefiting from CNC and Kauyon which is a far more a deadly volley then what you can get out of Broadsides.
Not sure I would take as many as 9 but when you start looking at synergy wouldn’t a larger Crisis suit team with CNC and Kayoun outperform a broadside squad with CNC and Kayoun at least the first turn or two?
Its an option. For that one volley you are going to do a lot of damage and sure - ignoring points you get more out of CNC when buffing 54 pod shots rather than 24 pod shots and 24 smart missile shots.
But - those broadsides can have ATS which will tend to help. They are around 360 points versus almost 650.
With around 40-50 points spare, you could CNC a 3 broadside unit & have 2 Kauyoned broadsides in another squad - which would mean 40 pod shots and 40 smart missiles with -1 AP - versus your 54 missiles.
Technically versus say a Knight with a 3++ save your version is better - but on the other hand its very inflexible, and if you don't have first turn its asking to be shot to bits (and losing 71 point models to moral hurts.) You can drone, but you can't hide without undermining Kauyon.
Versus just about anything else I think the broadsides would be better.
Another cool thing is bodygaurds went down. So we can protect MVP longstrike from alpha strike.
Long strike is priority 1 - but if they have to eat through 4ish hidden sheild drones - plus 3 crisis suits with an irridium suit and SG. They might just say forget it - I'm shooting something else! Which is marvelous for Longstrike. Cause he is godmode.
Just take the cheapest suits possible?
3 Sheild gens/ an irridum suit and like 4 burst cannons? or go ahead and give them missle pods?
Xenomancers wrote: Another cool thing is bodygaurds went down. So we can protect MVP longstrike from alpha strike.
Long strike is priority 1 - but if they have to eat through 4ish hidden sheild drones - plus 3 crisis suits with an irridium suit and SG. They might just say forget it - I'm shooting something else! Which is marvelous for Longstrike. Cause he is godmode.
Just take the cheapest suits possible?
3 Sheild gens/ an irridum suit and like 4 burst cannons? or go ahead and give them missle pods?
Why are you taking the shield drones?
The suits can be out of LoS and naked for this job for the cheapest available wounds possible.
It's still a lotnof points though and hammerheads IMHO just lack survivability for it to be worthwhile. Someone who can 1 turn a castellen will have no issues 1 turning 3 hammerheads at which point longstike has nothing to buff.
True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)
BoomWolf wrote: True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)
That is what I was thinking. Realistially - you want them to shoot at this trap and I feel like getting some firepower out of it will intice it and also you might need the firepower at some point. Also - a decent place to put a drone controller.
BoomWolf wrote: True, but you might as well stick missiles on them, and then have drones behind LoS and do a wound shuffle (longstrike to suit, then longstrike to drone)
That is what I was thinking. Realistially - you want them to shoot at this trap and I feel like getting some firepower out of it will intice it and also you might need the firepower at some point.
Drones can't intercept wounds for longstrike only thr bodyguards can and the drones can't intercept mortal wounds which is what the bodyguards take to save longstrike, it will keep longstrike alive longer but as I said 1 longstike meh I can still mince your 3 hammerheads T1 and retaliation without your hammerheads for longstike to buff is meh.
Believe it or not, I'm not sure but what it could be worth it to take Dahyek Grehk (the Kroot from Blackstone Fortress) in a Tau list. He takes up an Elite slot, but he's only 20 points, and even if his ability only kills 3 Ork Boyz or something, he's made his points back. If he can use his MW ability to kill 3 Devastators/Long Fangs, or a Terminator, or some other elite model(s), he's definitely worth it. Battalions have 6 Elite slots, so there's probably room for him, and you could use him in a cheap Vanguard, too.
Can't say Tau is a codex that suffers from lack of options in the elite slot, maybe in cheap elites but usually your struggling to add that last unit you want once you have the competitive units backbone of double battalion or brigade of Firewarriors, drones, riptides, commander, fireblade and marksmen.
Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.
If you mean infantry free lists, definitely not competitively, to many unit's rely on strategums which need CP .CP=infantry, additionally markerlights, which a assumed to always be available come in their most reliable forms o infantry charictors, which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.
If you mean infantry free lists, definitely not competitively, to many unit's rely on strategums which need CP .CP=infantry, additionally markerlights, which a assumed to always be available come in their most reliable forms o infantry charictors, which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.
I was thinking Battlesuit centric armies with minimal infantry investment (A fireblade or 2, 3 strike squads for a battalion, a firesight marksman and a squad of Pathfinders for marker lights) and the rest battlesuits to do all the heavy lifting.
Ice_can wrote: ...which may actually become a problem if snipers keep getting cheaper as loosing marksmen etc is rather crippling for tau firepower.
You mean like the new primaris formation?
to be fair that does take something mental like 3CP for 1 turn with 1 unit of stalker boltrifles, I'm not worried about them, I'd be more worried about scouts now sporting 2ppm sniper rifles as thats 13ppm.or the same as a tac marine.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Does anyone field devilfish?? Really fancy having a couple in my list.
As long as you have something to move with them, by all means. They're a good transport but a mediocre tank (12 18" S5 shots in most cases - they're not bringing the pain to anything). You can do clever stuff with them if you use a lot of terrain, as they can take Smart Missile Systems, but they're no Assault Cannon Razorback or Wave Serpent.
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Mr. Funktastic wrote: Looking at all the reductions across the board for less used battlesuits like the Crisis suits and Ghostkeel and their weapons, is it likely we'll see battlesuit armies be a thing for Tau again? Always loved the Tau battlesuits aesthetic and it would be great to see them be at least somewhat good.
I think Crisis Suits can replace Fire Warriors for weight of fire (triple Burst Cannon Crisis), but you'll still need infantry for CP. But Battalions aren't hard to fill for Tau (Obligatory Commander, Fireblade, 3x5 Fire Warriors).
My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives
Tournament saturday, bringing my usual tournament list. Will try to get 3 batreps in for it. CA is not being used yet, but after the tourney I'm expecting to make some minor changes.
Rogerio134134 wrote: My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives
It's valid, though I'd include Darkstrider or a Fireblade to buff them.
Rogerio134134 wrote: My thinking was to have a squad is breachers inside a fish, at least they would stay alive long enough to unleash a salvo and then could use the fish for blocking enemy units and contesting objectives
It's valid, though I'd include Darkstrider or a Fireblade to buff them.
Darkstrider is good with them, but I don't think a Fireblade does anything for them. His ability specifically calls out Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, not Pulse Blasters. It's a stupid thing, really, as it would actually make Breachers more viable.
The biggest problem with a blob of Breachers is that they will get one decent salvo at most before they are wiped off the map, and they'll only get that if the Devilfish survives long enough to get them there. I've tried them out before (10 Breachers + Darkstrider in a fish), and they didn't perform well enough to be worth it to me. I'd rather just take more Strike Teams and call it a day. Now, if Pulse Blasters went up to 2 damage, or D3, when on the short range profile, they'd be very good then. Also, perhaps in Vior'la Sept where they can potentially shoot twice they might be good, but in a highly competitive environment you want to be T'au or possibly Bor'kan sept if possible.
Darkstrider is good with them, but I don't think a Fireblade does anything for them. His ability specifically calls out Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines, not Pulse Blasters. It's a stupid thing, really, as it would actually make Breachers more viable.
Ah, my bad. Maybe if they took Pulse Pistols too for some CC counterpunch (+Tau Sept Overwatch).
I think the thing with Breachers is to be very selective - you can't drive up in front of 40 guardsmen, but you can get out and shoot something far more valuable than yourself with S6 AP-2.
What are peoples first impressions on the eight from chapter approved? I would like them a lot more if they didn't cost command pts. If anything they look like they may be fun to run in some casual games at the local store.
Blood Hawk wrote: What are peoples first impressions on the eight from chapter approved? I would like them a lot more if they didn't cost command pts. If anything they look like they may be fun to run in some casual games at the local store.
I really like them. They seem fun and fluffy.
I want to paint them like sentai heroes each with a different colour.
Getting my tau at Xmas from the Mrs I'm thinking of building a list with 3 ghostkeels who range out ahead of the main force and play aggressive to distract the enemy. Then have a holding force in the rear with some fire warriors, Hammerheads and a storm surge.
Not sure how that would do but it would be quite cool looking I think!
What are the thoughts on Broadsides with 2x High Yield Missiles, 2x Smart Missiles, and advanced targeting systems? A unit of 3 is somewhat pricey, but that is 48 shots from the squad...
I prefer to use Velocity Trackers on Broadsides, as it is cheaper and provides a little bit better shooting against some of the problem flying enemies (all flavors of Eldar, other Tau, Custodes bananabikes, etc.). ATS is probably better taken on a Riptide, although even there it is fairly pricey.
I was wondering if anyone could help with wound allocation on a unit with multiple defensive capabilities.
I’ve kitted out my crisis suits, 2 have shield generators and the third has a crisis iridium battlesuit. I’m unsure how to allocate wounds when they come in. Let me try to explain my confusion…
The unit gets hit x3 by a weapon with AP0. I decide to use the save of the irdium suit. I save 2 but 1 goes through, leaving this chap on 2 wounds.
I then get hit x3 by a weapon with AP-3. This time I try to save with the shield generators invulnerable. 2 I save but the third goes through, causing a wound on another model in the unit.
At the end of the shooting, one guys on full wounds and two are on 2.
Is this right? Play a lot of AoS and you can’t allocate wounds to multiple models in the same unit. You have to take from one until it’s dead and then move onto another.
I’ve checked the rules but can’t see anything that says you can’t allocate to multiple models in a unit. Am I just being blind?
lare2 wrote: Is this right? Play a lot of AoS and you can’t allocate wounds to multiple models in the same unit. You have to take from one until it’s dead and then move onto another.
I’ve checked the rules but can’t see anything that says you can’t allocate to multiple models in a unit. Am I just being blind?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm 99% sure there is a rule that you can't have multiple wounded models in a unit - once one model is wounded all wounds have to be allocated to it until it dies.
But I don't immediately know where it is in the rules.
Might be able to find it in an hour. Will have to see.
Sterling191 wrote: It's in the BRB. Once a model in a unit has taken a wound, no other model can take a wound until the first wounded model is KIA.
Yep, you're right. Not much to do at work so just checked it out again.
Allocate Wound: If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (the chosen model does not have to be within range or visible to the attacking unit). If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds, the damage must be allocated to that model.
I was just being blind the first time. Cheers guys. Only just learning to play with Tau so some of their abilities are really throwing me a curve ball to figure out after having spent the last year solely running Death Guard.
Yep, you're right. Not much to do at work so just checked it out again.
Allocate Wound: If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (the chosen model does not have to be within range or visible to the attacking unit). If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds, the damage must be allocated to that model.
I was just being blind the first time. Cheers guys. Only just learning to play with Tau so some of their abilities are really throwing me a curve ball to figure out after having spent the last year solely running Death Guard.
And you havent even gotten to the Drone shenanigans yet
Yep, you're right. Not much to do at work so just checked it out again.
Allocate Wound: If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit (the chosen model does not have to be within range or visible to the attacking unit). If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds, the damage must be allocated to that model.
I was just being blind the first time. Cheers guys. Only just learning to play with Tau so some of their abilities are really throwing me a curve ball to figure out after having spent the last year solely running Death Guard.
And you havent even gotten to the Drone shenanigans yet
Ha! The first time I read the codex I thought you needed a PhD or the like to run Tau... was a serious WTF moment!
Think I'm slowly, gradually, maybe getting a grasp of their rules!
Blood Hawk wrote: What are peoples first impressions on the eight from chapter approved? I would like them a lot more if they didn't cost command pts. If anything they look like they may be fun to run in some casual games at the local store.
Mixed feelings. Some of them are nice, others just make no sense whatsoever loadout wise. And I don't mean that in the sense of "these loadouts aren't the most powerful crunchwise so they suck", they don't make sense from a... well, logical POV, for as far as you can apply logic to the 40k universe. For example, Why do Brightsword and Torchstar not have Shield Generators if they have to get so close to do their damage? Why does Sha'Vastos have such an incredibly schizophrenic loadout (plasma rifle is medium range, flamer and shield generator are for short range and with the drone controller you want to sit at the max range of a gun drone swarm and let them blast away)? Arra'Kon would have been way better off changing his Airbursting Fragmentation Projector for another CIB or Plasma Rifle to hunt heavy infantry and light vehicles with and O'Vesa wasted an incredible amount of time creating a special piloting assistance system half of which provides the exact same effect as a single markerlight. I mean, these are elite T'au warriors with an enormous amount of knowledge about tactics or warfare. You'd think that they'd at least bolt weapons and subsystems onto their battlesuits that synergize with one another and their preferred fighting style and are not completely redundant like O'Vesa's targeting aide.
edit: now that I'm at it, might as well offer some suggestions:
Brightsword: Switch Target Lock for a Shield Generator
Torchstar: Switch Drone Controller for Shield Generator
Arra'Kon: Switch AFP for second Plasma Rifle or CIB Sha'Vastos: Completely changed, triple AFP + Drone Controller. This lets him hang back, flush out targets out of hiding with his AFPs and let a drone swarm blast away.
O'Vesa: Not sure. Maybe change to +1 to wound rolls or something.
I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure what to arm my suits with. My heart is set on taking at least two commanders, maybe one Coldstar and one vanilla. What are some good loadouts post-CA?
On that note, with JSJ now restricted to either a relic or strategem, is it even worth it to bring more then one Commander suit?
BlaxicanX wrote: I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure what to arm my suits with. My heart is set on taking at least two commanders, maybe one Coldstar and one vanilla. What are some good loadouts post-CA?
On that note, with JSJ now restricted to either a relic or strategem, is it even worth it to bring more then one Commander suit?
Most definitely. The BS 2+ alone is worth gold in a Tau army, especially when paired with the ridiculous mobility of the Coldstar or the Enforcers capability to pack multiple CIBs.
Even standard Crisis Commanders do great work in the back field with supportive gear like drone controller, handing out CNC to your heavy hitters. Missile pods are 9 points cheaper post CA, so you have a nice option to deal some damage from within your gunline, too.
JSJ is a nice thing to have (and you probably want it on one of your Commanders), but I don't feel it is a deal breaker not to have it. Saviour protocols, Ghostkeels, Stealth Suits, Piranhas and turn 2 deep strike can all make sure your commander stays relatively safe. Just make sure not to blast 40" up the table with your Coldstar turn one.
Another thing to consider is that Shadowsun has been reduced by 57(!) points in CA. A second Kauyon, reroll 1s for one unit nearby each turn, -1 to hit on herself and her (better) shield drones as well as the option to CNC make for a great package at that point range.
BlaxicanX wrote: I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure what to arm my suits with. My heart is set on taking at least two commanders, maybe one Coldstar and one vanilla. What are some good loadouts post-CA?
On that note, with JSJ now restricted to either a relic or strategem, is it even worth it to bring more then one Commander suit?
You might try a Command-and-Control Node commander. Keep him cheap, since he won't be shooting much but giving re-roll wounds to nearby shooty units like Missilesides.
Thanks for the feedback lads. I hadn't considered a cheap commander for babysitting broadsides. Are broadsides our bread and butter AV? What are we taking to deal with backline heavy hitters like knights, triple russes etc?
BlaxicanX wrote: Thanks for the feedback lads. I hadn't considered a cheap commander for babysitting broadsides. Are broadsides our bread and butter AV? What are we taking to deal with backline heavy hitters like knights, triple russes etc?
The Focused Fire and CNC Node Stratagems make a lot of things quite dangerous at S7. Just be sure to bring lots of CP and the Puretide Engram, b/c you'll need lots of CP.
Fortunately our cheap Battalion, the Greater Good 17 (3 5-man Strike Teams and 2 Fireblades) clocks in at 189 points, very similar to the Imperial Loyal 32. So having CP should not be a major problem for Tau.
ZergSmasher wrote: Fortunately our cheap Battalion, the Greater Good 17 (3 5-man Strike Teams and 2 Fireblades) clocks in at 189 points, very similar to the Imperial Loyal 32. So having CP should not be a major problem for Tau.
unfortunately a commander which you'll want in every detachment are way more points, also a riptide is 2 Russ's in points. It's also 5 firewarriors who still loose shooting matches with infantry squads.
GreatGranpapy wrote: So the Pulse Driver Canon is looking a lot more attractive with the points drop right?
Better, yes. Good enough to run competitively, I'm not sure. Stormsurge still costs as much or more than a Knight, and is less durable, so as much as I want to run mine I'm not sure it's worth it. I really need to get a few games in with my Tau now that CA is live, as there are quite a few nice reductions.
On an unrelated note, I'm going to throw 3 flamer-suits into my list for my next game and just see what happens.
With the CA drops, it's only 135 points for three flamer-suits. That's 9d6 auto-hitting bolters on a flying 8'' move chassis that doesn't need any auras or markerlight support to function.
And even if they do absolutely nothing and then die, what's 135 points in the grand scheme of things?
So I got the Start Collecting box for Christmas and it's encouraged me to get into a non-Imperium force for once. Nothing's built yet but planning to magnetise the XV8s. What would be a good loadout for them, and what would be a good way to bulk out the force?
I'm thinking the following for around 1000pts, this is just a pure estimate so it may be way off:
Triple Fusion Coldstar with Drone Controller
Ethereal
10x Fire Warriors
5x Fire Warriors
5x Fire Warriors
3x XV8s (loadout undecided)
2x Remora Drones
5x Pathfinders
2x HRR Broadsides.
Is this viable at all? The Remoras are a flying escort for the Coldstar, and will be firing with BS3+ thanks to the Drone Controller while also providing character blocking and a natural -1 to hit.
Valkyrie wrote: So I got the Start Collecting box for Christmas and it's encouraged me to get into a non-Imperium force for once. Nothing's built yet but planning to magnetise the XV8s. What would be a good loadout for them, and what would be a good way to bulk out the force?
I'm thinking the following for around 1000pts, this is just a pure estimate so it may be way off:
Triple Fusion Coldstar with Drone Controller
Ethereal
10x Fire Warriors
5x Fire Warriors
5x Fire Warriors
3x XV8s (loadout undecided)
2x Remora Drones
5x Pathfinders
2x HRR Broadsides.
Is this viable at all? The Remoras are a flying escort for the Coldstar, and will be firing with BS3+ thanks to the Drone Controller while also providing character blocking and a natural -1 to hit.
Darkstrider and the Cadre Fireblade make your Strike Teams a lot more dangerous and flexible. They also provide much needed Markerlights and Photon Grenades on BS 2+ (which can be used as the EMP-Grenade stratagem to set off the Focused Fire stratagem against tough vehicles).
The XV8 have become much cheaper in CA and the 3xFlamer setup keeps them that way while efficiently roasting GEQ, which are quite popular these days.
The Recon Drone on the Pathfinders is a nifty tool for bringing in those Crisis with the Positional Relay Stratagem. This way you can depstrike them right in front of the enemy when they don't expect it, since the stratagem circumvents the usual 9" restriction.
The Sac'ea Detachment provides cheap utility with two more Markerlights on BS 3+ rerollable, the Ethereal aura for your Strike Teams and Dahyak Grekh as a cheap filler who also has some neat tricks of his own.
2nd Riptide might be better spent. 1 is always good. two... it gets forced to always shield itself for a mortal wound and thus cant use the better goodies and becomes the easily identifiable first and easiest target to kill. Thus i usually only see one in a list. But it is good.
Jancoran wrote: 2nd Riptide might be better spent. 1 is always good. two... it gets forced to always shield itself for a mortal wound and thus cant use the better goodies and becomes the easily identifiable first and easiest target to kill. Thus i usually only see one in a list. But it is good.
When people are building lists to do 28 wounds to a T8 3++ a riptide will die turn 1 and T'au lists tend to be lots of drops and more likely to go second.
It's very much a 2 is 1, 1 is none to shoot back unit.
Jancoran wrote: 2nd Riptide might be better spent. 1 is always good. two... it gets forced to always shield itself for a mortal wound and thus cant use the better goodies and becomes the easily identifiable first and easiest target to kill. Thus i usually only see one in a list. But it is good.
When people are building lists to do 28 wounds to a T8 3++ a riptide will die turn 1 and T'au lists tend to be lots of drops and more likely to go second.
It's very much a 2 is 1, 1 is none to shoot back unit.
I haven't really seen that much but then, the entire list must be considered. Though if thats true it almost seems an indictment on the Riptide in general in that meta.
I just watched and played in a couple games against a guy here with a Riptide and honestly the Riptide wasn't an important target because to kill more and hold more, its just easier to kill other things and let the Riptide have its day. but with 2 iptides, a whole lot of "other things" disappear and suddenly you kind of have to deal with it. so it's somewhat of a catch-22. I sorted it out by using the middle ground, the StormSurge. it splits the difference. Its got its definite downsides but its good ENOUGH.
jeffersonian000 wrote: The Big Box Rule still applies in 8th as much as it ever did in previous additions:
1 Big Box unit is a target
2 Big Box units are a tactic
3 or more Big Box units are a strategy (because you will need one)
SJ
While I've never heard this expression, literally ever, I will say it's interesting.
If Riptides were cheaper, maybe. but the 300 points you spend on the second Riptide cuts into a fair number of alternative targets like i said and leaves you with an obvious one: the one without the 3+ invul. If both use it, then the second Riptide is suddenly not as menacing. Honestly I've struggled with this question over and over again in my own lists. I am not certain there is a right answer. Tactica for ME works WELL or even maybe BETTER when people focus on the Surge and I can afford for them to. So on some level this also comes down to your endgame.
I usually run 3 Riptides in my Tau lists, and they put in good work. It does require a significant investment in Shield Drones to keep them alive, but the firepower is really solid.
Babar_babar wrote: I did add the second Riptide because they tend to atract a lot of atention. If I drop it from the list, what do you think I should invest in??
Fusion piranhas are now 48 measly points. Just saying.
Babar_babar wrote: Arent they (fusion piranhas) 68pp as you need to take the 2 drones?
They are indeed. I just forget it all the time because in my mind I always save 200pts off my list for "general drone purposes". Even at 68 pts though, a piranha is a super mobile platform, with melta potential in close range and can also serve as a huge pathing blocker (or even send the drones and serve as pathing blocker for multiple turns. I think I will start including 2-4 piranhas in my lists. If nothing else, they can push for that deep lying objective on later turns.
Babar_babar wrote: Arent they (fusion piranhas) 68pp as you need to take the 2 drones?
They are indeed. I just forget it all the time because in my mind I always save 200pts off my list for "general drone purposes". Even at 68 pts though, a piranha is a super mobile platform, with melta potential in close range and can also serve as a huge pathing blocker (or even send the drones and serve as pathing blocker for multiple turns. I think I will start including 2-4 piranhas in my lists. If nothing else, they can push for that deep lying objective on later turns.
And they have 69% chance of leaving 2 drones, 83% chance of 1, behind when they die to continue to harass and take up board space and score objectives
I was reading some post in advancedtautactica and I have seen one debating about sniper drones, and the general consensus there is that they are very good. I personally havent try them as they did seem a bit overpriced to me at 18pp.
ZergSmasher wrote: I usually run 3 Riptides in my Tau lists, and they put in good work. It does require a significant investment in Shield Drones to keep them alive, but the firepower is really solid.
Yeah they put out withering firepower for sure. Nothing wrong with it. They're just going to get whittled fast. But I suppose you assume that in your estimations.
Babar_babar wrote: I was reading some post in advancedtautactica and I have seen one debating about sniper drones, and the general consensus there is that they are very good. I personally havent try them as they did seem a bit overpriced to me at 18pp.
Has anyone have any succes with them?
They are our best source for mortal wounds atm which is very much needed against Knights and other armies heavily relying on invul saves.
Sniper Drones deal a mortal wound on a wound roll of 6+ and the Focus Fire stratagem makes this a 5+. Now, wiht a Firesight Marksman, a Drone Controller and 5 Markerlights, these things shoot twice at 24", hitting on 2+, rerolling 1s and dealing an additional mortal wound on a wound roll of 5+.
With a squad of nine Sniper Drones, that's an average of 5.8 mortal wounds in addition to their regular damage, able to be targeted at characters as well.
Being -1 to hit is just the cherry on top, really.
So this question has probably come up first, but I need some clarification on the Mont'ka ability:
-The ability says it affects units within 6" of the Commander at the start of the movement phase. Does this mean that they are then 'buffed' by him and free to move away from the Commander with Mont'ka effect?
Or does the aura stay with the Commander, and do those that have been affected by it at the start of the movement phase, have to stay within 6" of him to keep the benefits?
Doctoralex wrote: So this question has probably come up first, but I need some clarification on the Mont'ka ability:
-The ability says it affects units within 6" of the Commander at the start of the movement phase. Does this mean that they are then 'buffed' by him and free to move away from the Commander with Mont'ka effect?
Or does the aura stay with the Commander, and do those that have been affected by it at the start of the movement phase, have to stay within 6" of him to keep the benefits?
It's in the Tau codex FAQ
Spoiler:
Q: If a Commander uses their Master of War ability to declare
either Kauyon or Mont’ka, and a friendly <Sept> unit that
was more than 6" from that Commander at the beginning of the
turn subsequently moves within 6" of that Commander during
that turn, does that <Sept> unit then benefit from Kauyon
or Mont’ka?
A: No. Kauyon and Mont’ka only affect those units that
are within 6" of the Commander when the ability was
used at the start of the turn.
I know this is going to sound really silly and I shouldn't make my decision based on this, but I recently got offered a Tau Army for pretty dang cheap. Now, if I didn't already have 3 armies, I wouldn't hesitate. But, I'm thinking maybe I can replace one of my existing armies. The thing is that this takes time and I'm busy as of lately, not pouring too much time into the hobby. However, the deal is very sweet $$-wise.
I would buy TAU if they were to be my competitive army. The question is, are the models that are offered to me (because, it's just everything that a friend owns) competitive enough to warrant me buying it, or am I going to be looking at a heck of a lot of extra expenses to finally shape a good list?
EDIT: He sais there's also "quite some" drones, w/e that means
Now, I know there's 2 Riptides, 2 Hammerheads, 40 warriors and 6 crisis suits which ought to be good, but the question is, how much more am I going to need to build a competitive list? I know this is a very weird and very broad question, so sorry in advance. Essentially, is it worth it as an army by itself or am I gonna have to buy like 400$ more worth of stuff to make a competitive list?
Now, I know there's 2 Riptides, 2 Hammerheads, 40 warriors and 6 crisis suits which ought to be good, but the question is, how much more am I going to need to build a competitive list? I know this is a very weird and very broad question, so sorry in advance. Essentially, is it worth it as an army by itself or am I gonna have to buy like 400$ more worth of stuff to make a competitive list?
Well, it depends on the weapons load as well. For example, Rail weapons (Broadsides and Hammerheads) are really overshadowed by Ion weapons in this edition. You'll want Cadre Fireblades to buff infantry and as many Commanders as you have detachments. I doubt you have a 'hard-core' tournament competitive list from that collection, though I'm not sure how much you'd have to spend to get to one.
Now, I know there's 2 Riptides, 2 Hammerheads, 40 warriors and 6 crisis suits which ought to be good, but the question is, how much more am I going to need to build a competitive list? I know this is a very weird and very broad question, so sorry in advance. Essentially, is it worth it as an army by itself or am I gonna have to buy like 400$ more worth of stuff to make a competitive list?
Well, it depends on the weapons load as well. For example, Rail weapons (Broadsides and Hammerheads) are really overshadowed by Ion weapons in this edition. You'll want Cadre Fireblades to buff infantry and as many Commanders as you have detachments. I doubt you have a 'hard-core' tournament competitive list from that collection, though I'm not sure how much you'd have to spend to get to one.
I'm supposed to get the sprues as well. Did the old Broadsides have Ions? Although, I think he mentioned something about "broadsides are old models 3 have rail and sms,the other 3 got conversion sms and hymp + missile drones , their rail exist on sprue" . Does that mean they don't have Ions? Idk what "hymp" is. Pathfinders are also the old models, if that's any important.
I'm supposed to get the sprues as well. Did the old Broadsides have Ions? Although, I think he mentioned something about "broadsides are old models 3 have rail and sms,the other 3 got conversion sms and hymp + missile drones , their rail exist on sprue" . Does that mean they don't have Ions? Idk what "hymp" is. Pathfinders are also the old models, if that's any important.
If it's converted, it's an old broadside based off the Crisis Suit with some extra metal bits. Those were rail only. The current Broadside has Rail and High Yield Missile Pods (HYMP), which are the superior option in most cases. They never got Ion weapons.
Old pathfinders are fine, though they never had the Ion option the current ones do. I think Pathfinder Rail Rifles are still viable compared to their Ion option, it depends what you're shooting at,
I suggest you go over to the Army List sub forum to see what people are building their Tau armies around for competitions, it would probably give you a better idea of what you might need or be able to use.
Most of them generally are built around the core of 30 to 60 Firewarriors player dependant, 1-2 commanders, 1-2 Fireblades, 2-3 riptides, 3 firesight marksmen, 10-20 shield drones.
Fill out the remaining points per flavour, usually sniper drones, broadsides and pathfinders.
Really the issue is with CA2018 changing a lot of points in the more competitive direction a lot of the Tau codex if not 100% competitive isn't exactly GK level of suck.
A super cheap brigade of Sa'cea to offer CP dominance and all the markerlights you will ever need. Bonus points is that it clocks really cheap and we are free to put whatever else we want.
2 x Cadre Fireblade
1 x Etherial
6 units of 5 strike teams + markerlight
3 x Farsight marksmen
3 units of 5 pathfinders
3 units of 3 sniper drones.
That's a full brigade for just a tad over 700 pts. It gives 12 CP, it has 27 markerlights, 6 of them on a 3+ and on characters.
Why Sa'cea? We can now reroll all those markerlights in the cadre, the farsight marksmen, the strike teams and one roll per pathfinder unit. Since each of them is a separate unit, we always get our reroll on every one of them.
Beyond that, we get our 30 fire warriors and the farsight marksman- sniper drone synergy.
Then we are left with 1250+ pts to fill in other goodies and never have to worry about CP or markerlights ever again.
A super cheap brigade of Sa'cea to offer CP dominance and all the markerlights you will ever need. Bonus points is that it clocks really cheap and we are free to put whatever else we want.
2 x Cadre Fireblade
1 x Etherial
What do you think?
With all those Sniper Drones, I'd replace the Ethereal with a XV8 Commander with a Drone Controller.
A super cheap brigade of Sa'cea to offer CP dominance and all the markerlights you will ever need. Bonus points is that it clocks really cheap and we are free to put whatever else we want.
2 x Cadre Fireblade
1 x Etherial
What do you think?
With all those Sniper Drones, I'd replace the Ethereal with a XV8 Commander with a Drone Controller.
They already hit on 4's via the marksmen, and they have 1 reroll per 3 dice due to sa'cea. This and with 25 markerlights, I'm not sure it is needed. The point of this is to keep the brigade as cheap as possible to focus on the rest of your list easier.
With all those Sniper Drones, I'd replace the Ethereal with a XV8 Commander with a Drone Controller.
They already hit on 4's via the marksmen, and they have 1 reroll per 3 dice due to sa'cea. This and with 25 markerlights, I'm not sure it is needed. The point of this is to keep the brigade as cheap as possible to focus on the rest of your list easier.
Commanders are good enough that you'll want as many as possible - one per detachment. You sacrifice a small amount of firepower for the Drone Controller, but you're still shooting 3 guns on 2+ with the Commander.
I'm playing soon against a Necron player. 2000pts.
I'm planning on bringing 3 missile Broadsides and 3 Ghostkeels (Cyclic/2xFusion blaster/TL/SG each) to play around with them aaand I'm having trouble deciding what Sept should I bring.
Although the Borkan sept doesn't work on Fusion blasters, it would help all the other weapons a lot. From what I've seen he's a type of a Necron player that doesn't bring Wraiths that often (he prefers Destroyers and Doom scythes lately), so loosing that 5+ overwatch shouldn't be that big of a deal.
What do you think?
A super cheap brigade of Sa'cea to offer CP dominance and all the markerlights you will ever need. Bonus points is that it clocks really cheap and we are free to put whatever else we want.
2 x Cadre Fireblade
1 x Etherial
6 units of 5 strike teams + markerlight
3 x Farsight marksmen
3 units of 5 pathfinders
3 units of 3 sniper drones.
That's a full brigade for just a tad over 700 pts. It gives 12 CP, it has 27 markerlights, 6 of them on a 3+ and on characters.
Why Sa'cea? We can now reroll all those markerlights in the cadre, the farsight marksmen, the strike teams and one roll per pathfinder unit. Since each of them is a separate unit, we always get our reroll on every one of them.
Beyond that, we get our 30 fire warriors and the farsight marksman- sniper drone synergy.
Then we are left with 1250+ pts to fill in other goodies and never have to worry about CP or markerlights ever again.
What do you think?
I'd find a different elite forthat third slot. But my list, which is going to LVO has a similar basis.
I'll be curious as to how this list does. It's very different from my own Tau lists.
I took 2nd at a GT and 1st at an RTT with it.
Fair disclosure: The LVO version is altered somewhat from the one that did so well at these events. Whether it was the right move is yet to be determined.
The change is that Broadsides and a few extra models sit where once a Stormsurge did. The other change is that the Kroot Hounds I used in those events have now been replaced by the Stingwings (who can perform the same essential function, provide me more deployment shenanigans, and can shoot). We shall see if those changes produce better results but there are pros and cons for sure in making the changes. I am testing it now, of course. But I can give you the original version as well if you're interested.
The important thing is that the tactics really didn't change.
Played my 3rd game of 8th last night hoping for a nice gentle game with my foot marines, turned up the guy had Tau 3 Riptide's 3 missile sides, longstrike and pals on an open terrain devoid board playing kill points....
It was a massacre! Riptide's are absolutely crazy to face although I did kill one with mass bolter and storm bolter fire.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Played my 3rd game of 8th last night hoping for a nice gentle game with my foot marines, turned up the guy had Tau 3 Riptide's 3 missile sides, longstrike and pals on an open terrain devoid board playing kill points....
It was a massacre! Riptide's are absolutely crazy to face although I did kill one with mass bolter and storm bolter fire.
40k is not meant to be played on planet bolling ball, sounds like you ran into 'that guy'.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Played my 3rd game of 8th last night hoping for a nice gentle game with my foot marines, turned up the guy had Tau 3 Riptide's 3 missile sides, longstrike and pals on an open terrain devoid board playing kill points....
It was a massacre! Riptide's are absolutely crazy to face although I did kill one with mass bolter and storm bolter fire.
40k is not meant to be played on planet bolling ball, sounds like you ran into 'that guy'.
He was a nice dude but yeah it was totally tailored for his win, he had been playing for years but didn't understand that plasma guns overheating when you roll a 1 to hit and there's a character nearby allowing re roll 1s that my guy didn't die lol
An important lesson for me though using big units of 10 is not a good idea in 8th.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Played my 3rd game of 8th last night hoping for a nice gentle game with my foot marines, turned up the guy had Tau 3 Riptide's 3 missile sides, longstrike and pals on an open terrain devoid board playing kill points....
It was a massacre! Riptide's are absolutely crazy to face although I did kill one with mass bolter and storm bolter fire.
40k is not meant to be played on planet bolling ball, sounds like you ran into 'that guy'.
He was a nice dude but yeah it was totally tailored for his win, he had been playing for years but didn't understand that plasma guns overheating when you roll a 1 to hit and there's a character nearby allowing re roll 1s that my guy didn't die lol
An important lesson for me though using big units of 10 is not a good idea in 8th.
Using power armor is not a good idea in 8th in general :(
Rogerio134134 wrote: Played my 3rd game of 8th last night hoping for a nice gentle game with my foot marines, turned up the guy had Tau 3 Riptide's 3 missile sides, longstrike and pals on an open terrain devoid board playing kill points....
It was a massacre! Riptide's are absolutely crazy to face although I did kill one with mass bolter and storm bolter fire.
40k is not meant to be played on planet bolling ball, sounds like you ran into 'that guy'.
He was a nice dude but yeah it was totally tailored for his win, he had been playing for years but didn't understand that plasma guns overheating when you roll a 1 to hit and there's a character nearby allowing re roll 1s that my guy didn't die lol
An important lesson for me though using big units of 10 is not a good idea in 8th.
Using power armor is not a good idea in 8th in general :(
I've painted so many recently lol I'll try and make it work! Using the Deathwatch codex so that should help.
I usually run the usual competitive 3x riptide, couple broadsides, Shadowsun, Coldstar, Drones, etc.
But especially with the new vigilis stuff he just puts the mortars/wyverns (that out range me) into my drones (hidden or not) and then big tanks kill the suits.
I usually run the usual competitive 3x riptide, couple broadsides, Shadowsun, Coldstar, Drones, etc.
But especially with the new vigilis stuff he just puts the mortars/wyverns (that out range me) into my drones (hidden or not) and then big tanks kill the suits.
Help?
Well thats what he should do right? When you take a list like that you are really setting yourself up. he waits to see which Riptide will get the double buff, and kills a different one. He drops the Drones and now board coverage is lost. It's the right plan.
After ONE Riptide I start kind of doubting the value of taking more. ONE is quite good and because its frustrating for players to try andget through all that droneage, they will often just let him do his thing and you'll get PRODUCTION from him nearly all game, but you're missing out on some other opportunities for the list when you pump SO many points into big robots.
Ynnari probably eat this alive when they fire their Dark Reapers twice into it. No matter the invul, so few models means he doesnt have to be THAT lucky.
I'd reconsider taking three and see what dropping 2 gets you. My guess is: a lot.
So, besides commanders and maybe a few Stealth Suits, are most T'au suits just really bad in 8th? I ask because I had thought about running a full Suit list at 1000 points (amount of free time available + my attention span really keeps me from playing 2000 point games).
I have: 1 x Commander in Coldstar Battlesuit 1 x Riptide 6 x Stealth Suits 3 x Crisis Suits 1 x Broadside with HYMP 1 x Broadisde with Heavy Rail Rifle
I can get that up to 1000 points without much trouble in 8th. Or would you recommend that I use my
1 x Commander in Coldstar Battlesuit 1 x Ethereal 2 x Breacher Team 1 x Strike Team 6 x Stealth Suits 1 x Pathfinder Team 3 x Devilfish
I'd prefer using the suits because 1) they cook cool and 2) they are fewer models. But, I've gathered that it's almost an auto-lose to use a full Suit army.
Tau as a codex suffered from a bit of what can we make a strategum syndrome in the transition to 8th edition meaning that a number of things that make stuff work are now locked up in command point intensive strategum combinations. Which can now be denied by 2 out of the 5 other factions.
CA 2018 did help suits vecome more viable, but they still have issues.
I would always suggest starting a tau list with a basic battalion of FW and commander,fireblade combo, for those sweet 5CP for the addict like habit you'll find Tau have when it comes to spending CP.
You then need to look at something like broadsides or the obvious riptide for additional firepower and drones for survival. Firesight marksmen really shouldn't be the go to but pathfinders I find just get auto deleted by any competent opponents. This would be less of an issue of Tau firepower didn't feel like its substandard in 8th edition levels of lethality without markerlights.
Right now I wouldn't even take a devilfish for anything other than drop count reduction and with tau that's mostly a waste of time and points that are better spend on firepower.
Yeah, riptides are a staple of top lists, though they hit diminishing returns after one.
Broadsides also seem to do well, with the full missile dakkaside being a nice pick especially after the point drops.
Stealth suits are an interesting unit, with their deployment shenanigans, and reasonable durability, but are still a bit pricey and rather anemic firepower compared to other options. I take two units of three in my list, but they are actually there to guard my ghostkeels, and usually die turn 1.
Speaking of ghostkeels, they work quite nice. Especially with their point drop, they do good work. Mine are helped defensively by my opponents being too dumb to ever shoot the stealth drones; however even their innate hit malus and a shield generator work quite impressively when combined with the shield drones the stealth suits bring. They also put out very nice firepower with the cyclic ion raker and fusion blasters. Mine like to munch on imperial knights. "Oh, you have a 4++, well, I still do full damage since my main gun is only AP -1 anyway."
Crisis suits are interesting now with the point drop. I have only had one chance to use the squad I added to my list from the freed up points after chapter approved, and while they did not do anything, it was sort of my fault for trying to shoot them at a -2 to hit eldar flyer. On the other hand, they took a full round for ravagers and eldar flyers shooting to actually kill them off, which seemed decent, and left my ghostkeels unshoot for a turn to continue blasting away. Mathematically the triple plasma build can actually compete with firewarriors in terms of killing 3+ armor, while offering advantages vs. T3/5/6 and 2+ armor saves as well as giving board presence with being able to drop in. I actually run mine with 2 plasma and a missile pod on each, since I had the extra points wiggle room, and I wanted a bit of extra anti-big ommph the multi-damage missile offer, as well as the range so that they can aid other parts of the board after they drop in (since part of their purpose in my list is to go for hard-to-reach objectives, being able to claim an objective in one corner and not be limited to plasma range to contribute shooting seems useful)
If you do run lots of suits, make sure to bring plenty of Shield Drones. They are absolutely key to keeping suits (especially the big ones like Riptides) on the table.
Amusingly, a fair number of Tau lists at LVO were running Dahyek Grehk (from Blackstone Fortress). For 20 points, the potential to do some mortal wounds is pretty nice, and he probably comes in handy in the one ITC mission where the bonus point is for holding three objectives with characters.
Hi, I play Tau (though its the smallest of my 6 armies), but also, and that is more to the point, I struggle A LOT against them, much more than eldar and imperial soup, strangely enough (I often lose against a very good Tau player though, so I know it is not just the codex's power, the guy's skill totally comes into play here), so i am pleased to see Tau made it in the top 8 at LVO.
Can anyone among the exeprienced Tau players (tounament wise) please explain how this "winning" list works ?
Thank you very much in advance !
Also, if the list could be posted here it would be great
By the way, I think this Tau list and the chaos soup list were the only "suprise lists" to make it into the top 8, the 6 other lists are perfectly clear about their power level IMHO (from what I can percieve about the game anyway).
I usually run the usual competitive 3x riptide, couple broadsides, Shadowsun, Coldstar, Drones, etc.
But especially with the new vigilis stuff he just puts the mortars/wyverns (that out range me) into my drones (hidden or not) and then big tanks kill the suits.
Help?
Yup, that's going to be a hard match up.
Maybe think a little bit more outside of the box with your riptides. They are fairly quick and have the fly keyword. Maybe you could even use the movement effect of overcharge to get them in range of those mortar teams.
I remember in the armies that people don’t want to play thread that someone said that they didn’t play gunline T’au, but rather assault T’au. What competitive options does this army have, and does anybody have any examples of a competitive assault T’au list or two?
Kroot (x18)
Kroot (x15)
Strike Team (x12) Markerlight
Dayek Grekh
Shield Drones (x12)
T'au Sept, Vanguard
Coldstar; AFPs (x4)
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, CDS
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, CDS
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, CDS
From looking at it, you have a solid firebase with the 3 riptides. They get protected by the shield drones, which potentially get morale boosts from the Ethereal. They get buffed by Shadowsun, for 2 turns of re-roll all hits, and probably 1 getting re-roll wounds from C and C node. The Counterfire Defense System is an interesting choice on them. It really focuses on being worried about charges. That slot seems to be fairly variable though, other top Tau lists I have seen also put Velocity Trackers or especially Target Locks in that second slot (the HBC, SMS, ATS combo is constant).
Then you have one of the interesting adaptations, the breacher bomb. With Vior'la the d-fish can move+advance and still get decent shooting out, then next turn the breachers disembark 3'', move, advance, and double tap with the stratagem. They do rather nice damage, and really provide control over mid-field objectives. Also the two big squads of kroot are interesting--maximum bodies for the points, and with their scout move can team up with the breachers to swarm the midfield. I wonder if Aun'shi went in the d-fish, hung out behind the kroot, or went with the drones/riptides...
The kroot character is super cheap and so fits in nicely--extra character protection for objectives and I hear it can do some damage.
Also the AFP coldstar is interesting, that I suspect is influenced by the ITC rules making much more los-blocking from terrain than the normal rules, so especially if you expect IG mortars and such having the fast, los-ignoring horde clear seems useful.
As for assault tau, I myself run a close-combat tau army (the people at my store get mad if you call it assault, since I don't actually charge people most of the time, aside from before the codex when I was beating up treadhead IG by charging their russes).
2x3 Stealth, Fusion, Shield Drones
2x Ghostkeel, CIR, FB, TL, Shield Gen 3x Marksman
Crisis Suits, 2 Plas, MP each
Gun Drones
3x5 Pathfinders, 2 Ion Squads, 1 Rails
How this army works is I have a firewarrior blob, which needs to get within 15'', but then will decimate stuff. The breachers are really good damage once they get within range, which is not to hard except vs. gunlines on the long-way map. The real hitting power is my ghostkeels, which along with Shadowsun and the stealth suits infiltrate in the enemy's face. Shadowsun and the stealth suits provide shield drones, and the stealth suits provide a roadblock vs. early charges. Also the fusion coldstar needs to get in close to the enemy, and has the speed to do it. Even the crisis suits want to drop in danger-close to get efficient blasting with their plasma rifles.
I find my list does quite will, though it can require some finesse. I routinely beat up imperial knights, since I lean on the ghostkeels and firewarrior blob. You rotate ion sheilds to get a 4++? Joke's on you, my giant ion cannons only have AP -1, so they still do full damage! The T'au sept strat really hurts stuff like knights.
I also managed to beat a Dank Eldar list that the guy was going to take to LVO. The stealth blob managed to nuke down a Talos on overwatch, and even after he vect'ed my focus fire, I was able to nuke down his blob of grots on my turn. The commanders 2+ bs does nice to shoot down annoying elf flyers.
ServiceGames wrote: So, besides commanders and maybe a few Stealth Suits, are most T'au suits just really bad in 8th?
Thanks
SG
A singular Ghostkeel served me SO well in SO many games. I took one to the LVO as well and it had similarly great production and results. I literally faced the luckiest Castellan alive in my second round match but that Ghostkeel pumped out a total of 30 Melta shots over the course of one game including two charges it survived. i don't know how that Castellan wasn't dead after what i threw at it but then again, Castellans are just too much to begin with. i dropped a list that was eerily similar to the one that won LVO (must be a net list rolling around out there) with no issues and again the Ghostkeel was critically important to that. So i cannot say enough about the Ghostkeel, honestly. Its rugged, it's immediately on top of the enemy and saves the rest of the list a lot of trouble.
I haven't played with using more than one but there are enough battlesuit stratagems to choke a horse. They all compliment the Ghostkeel exceedingly well. If the rest of my list has worked as well as the Ghostkeel did I might have had a better weekend!
Consider the ways you can use the Ghostkeel. It was quite excellent for me.
ServiceGames wrote: So, besides commanders and maybe a few Stealth Suits, are most T'au suits just really bad in 8th?
Thanks
SG
A singular Ghostkeel served me SO well in SO many games. I took one to the LVO as well and it had similarly great production and results. I literally faced the luckiest Castellan alive in my second round match but that Ghostkeel pumped out a total of 30 Melta shots over the course of one game including two charges it survived. i don't know how that Castellan wasn't dead after what i threw at it but then again, Castellans are just too much to begin with. i dropped a list that was eerily similar to the one that won LVO (must be a net list rolling around out there) with no issues and again the Ghostkeel was critically important to that. So i cannot say enough about the Ghostkeel, honestly. Its rugged, it's immediately on top of the enemy and saves the rest of the list a lot of trouble.
I haven't played with using more than one but there are enough battlesuit stratagems to choke a horse. They all compliment the Ghostkeel exceedingly well. If the rest of my list has worked as well as the Ghostkeel did I might have had a better weekend!
Consider the ways you can use the Ghostkeel. It was quite excellent for me.
My experience with Ghostkeels is that the drones die almost immediately, and then the suit itself doesn't last terribly long afterwards. Now, maybe I'm playing it wrong, I dunno. I figure Target Lock and Shield Generator are the go-to secondaries for it, yes? And Fusion Collider is probably better than CIR, right?
If you want to run Ghostkeels I think your better of running multiples.
1 stealth drone can cover multiple suits and 3 sets of 2 hopefully means 1 survives past the first turn.
In my experience with the Ghostkeel.....it survives almost always because it quickly becomes a lower threat due to the Riptides and Commanders taking things out.
My experience with Ghostkeels is that the drones die almost immediately, and then the suit itself doesn't last terribly long afterwards. Now, maybe I'm playing it wrong, I dunno. I figure Target Lock and Shield Generator are the go-to secondaries for it, yes? And Fusion Collider is probably better than CIR, right?
Yes, the target lock and shield are really nice. I call mine troll-keels, since they are so good at absorbing enemy fire between the hit malus, friendly shield drones, and their own shields. And then I can have one operate full power for 1 cp, and if I am feeling really spicy use the heal strat on them.
I like the CIR over the Fusion Collider. It seems like invulnerable saves are far and away the meta, so it is better to not rely on the massive ap of the fusion collider. Overcharged CIR still do about the same damage to tanks, etc, but do not drop half their power vs. 4++ that are so common (ghostkeels, hive tyrants, imperial knights) or even all the 5++ stuff that people seem to roll well on vs me (D-eldar, mechanicus, etc)
Also, I find people have trouble committing enough firepower to take out the drones, it just feels so bad for them to shoot enough long range weapons to finish them off, especially when I have both stealth and shield drone units floating around.
ServiceGames wrote: So, besides commanders and maybe a few Stealth Suits, are most T'au suits just really bad in 8th?
Thanks
SG
A singular Ghostkeel served me SO well in SO many games. I took one to the LVO as well and it had similarly great production and results. I literally faced the luckiest Castellan alive in my second round match but that Ghostkeel pumped out a total of 30 Melta shots over the course of one game including two charges it survived. i don't know how that Castellan wasn't dead after what i threw at it but then again, Castellans are just too much to begin with. i dropped a list that was eerily similar to the one that won LVO (must be a net list rolling around out there) with no issues and again the Ghostkeel was critically important to that. So i cannot say enough about the Ghostkeel, honestly. Its rugged, it's immediately on top of the enemy and saves the rest of the list a lot of trouble.
I haven't played with using more than one but there are enough battlesuit stratagems to choke a horse. They all compliment the Ghostkeel exceedingly well. If the rest of my list has worked as well as the Ghostkeel did I might have had a better weekend!
Consider the ways you can use the Ghostkeel. It was quite excellent for me.
My experience with Ghostkeels is that the drones die almost immediately, and then the suit itself doesn't last terribly long afterwards. Now, maybe I'm playing it wrong, I dunno. I figure Target Lock and Shield Generator are the go-to secondaries for it, yes? And Fusion Collider is probably better than CIR, right?
Mine used Shield Generator and Multitracker with Fusion. I deployed it fairly early RIGHT on the enemy doorstep and used it to wreck something truly valuable and then charge something truly valuable to shut it up. It's Toughness and saves make it difficult to bust. The Stratagem allows me to cure up to 2d3 wounds at top of his turn AND mine if they dont kill it and then I repeat (assuming they pulled away from me).
While the suit is usually, on paper, better at longer distances (if you can hide the drones SUCCESSFULLY which is no given but worth trying) I have found that getting into that sweet 9" range and cutting someones heart out is pretty sweet use of him. Some units may get within' my 6" but not many (since I just killed the closest thing at 9").
the Ghostkeel also changes peoples deployments which is a very nice side benefit.
ZergSmasher wrote: Amusingly, a fair number of Tau lists at LVO were running Dahyek Grehk (from Blackstone Fortress). For 20 points, the potential to do some mortal wounds is pretty nice, and he probably comes in handy in the one ITC mission where the bonus point is for holding three objectives with characters.
He is also literally the cheapest thing you can hide in reserves to pop out at the right moment to grab a random positional VP. And in doing so you get to defer deploying anything for real for one more drop so you see more of the opposition deployment before you do anything.
It is a lot of utility for 20 points although his only real damage output is one rather unreliable special rule.
Nice model too, although until I had him I did not realise how much taller than regular kroot he is.
I usually run the usual competitive 3x riptide, couple broadsides, Shadowsun, Coldstar, Drones, etc.
But especially with the new vigilis stuff he just puts the mortars/wyverns (that out range me) into my drones (hidden or not) and then big tanks kill the suits.
Help?
Do not be a static gunline, Guard play that game better than you. Get up to them and lock things in combat to try to control their shooting phase. Use your drones to buy you enough time to get up there and then use and abuse the Fly keyword to keep stuff locked in combat until you want to fly out and shoot. It is not easy but if you just stand still you will find you are quite likely to be ground to dust by the immutable forces of mathhammer and AM stuff just being cheaper than T'au equivalents.
AM are still a tough match even without the additional crazy of the Castellan, they always have been.
Yeah, I have a really good track record vs. ig at my local store. Charging the russes and such was a big part of many of my successes. It helps that the people who play ig around me are all massive treadheads that want to run pure tank armies with no infantry, so getting up to charge the tanks is really easy. Especially with stealth suits/ghostkeels.
I beat an extremely similar copy of the winning list.
Brandon took the Vigilus Emperors Wrath: Straken, 2 Commanders, 8 infantry squads.
Also: Bullgryns, Astropath and Priest for buffing. 2 hellhounds and Rough riders. Mortars and a couple wyverns. The obligatory "I want to win at all costs" Castellan.
The list I faced was Rod Tripletts:
Vigilus of course, Castellan, Straken and two commanders, 2 primaris Psykers for buffing...8 Infantry squads...Astropath, Commissar and Priest, 3 Scout sintinels3 mortar teams (sort of replaced his Wyverns but prettyy much just trades re-roll hits for re-roll wounds)
The Bullgrysn/hellhounds/rough riders were replaced by 3 Jump Captains and 3x5 scouts but the lists FUNCTIONED very similarly, but more objective-taking focused. One Jump captains smashed both my Gunrigs to pieces in round one on his own. oofta. 240 points gone in a heartbeat.
seems like several armies looked similar to these two in function if not exact form.
To ensure I am not unintentionally cheating..a Vior’la strike team with a DS8 turret - if you use the hot blooded stratagem on the unit, the turret fires twice along with everyone else in the unit. Correct?
GSC player here but question about: Early warning override.
If any enemy units are set up within 12" of a model from your army equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), then at the end of that phase the model may immediately shoot at one of those units as if it were your Shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from hit rolls when resolving these shots.
It allows to shoot only one unit that dropped in, not like 5 different units, right?
Bryan01 wrote: To ensure I am not unintentionally cheating..a Vior’la strike team with a DS8 turret - if you use the hot blooded stratagem on the unit, the turret fires twice along with everyone else in the unit. Correct?
Does anyone know where to find the Tau list that just won the GW heat tournement? Some people were talking about it in another thread, apparently it had the staple dakkasides, but also 6 or so pirahnas. I am interested in details.
Yaktan wrote: Does anyone know where to find the Tau list that just won the GW heat tournement? Some people were talking about it in another thread, apparently it had the staple dakkasides, but also 6 or so pirahnas. I am interested in details.
It was posted in the stream's chat multiple times, though I'm sure a full list will be posted somewhere. Off the top of my head, it had Shadowsun, Cadre Fireblade, 3x Pirhana, 5x Pirhana, 3x Missile Broadsides, Riptide, 3x5 Strike Team with Markers (IIRC) (all Tau faction) and a Sa'cea group of an Ethereal and three Firesight Marksmen. Something like 18 total Seeker Missiles.
Yaktan wrote: Does anyone know where to find the Tau list that just won the GW heat tournement? Some people were talking about it in another thread, apparently it had the staple dakkasides, but also 6 or so pirahnas. I am interested in details.
| Simon | Tau | Tau Sept | Cadré fireblade, Shadowsun, 3x 5 strike teams marker lights 2 shield drones. Grehk Riptide Hevy Burst Cannon 2x Smart Missile System 5x Piranhas 3x Piranhas 3x Broadsides with all the missiles in the world 5 shield drones | Vanguard detachment | Etheral on hover chair 3x Farsight Marksman
Question about firesight marksmen, they have proven to be the go to source of markerlights for some time now, however with the increasing numbers of snipers hitting the tables, does anyone else think that their time is limited?
I'm not saying they have become auto loose, but I think that keeping markerlights around for later turns just got a lot harder.
Anyone got any radical ideas or just sticking withe them for the time being?
Ice_can wrote: Question about firesight marksmen, they have proven to be the go to source of markerlights for some time now, however with the increasing numbers of snipers hitting the tables, does anyone else think that their time is limited?
I'm not saying they have become auto loose, but I think that keeping markerlights around for later turns just got a lot harder.
Anyone got any radical ideas or just sticking withe them for the time being?
If the enemy is throwing sniper fire on Firesight Marksmen (24 points a pop, 3 wounds, 2+ save in cover), I'd count that as a bonus. It means they're not shooting my Fireblades/Ethereals/Farstrider/Commanders.
Also, the easy solution is the synergistic one; Sniper Drones nearby. They have Savior Protocols and are buffed by the Firesight Marksman. But any drones will do. 4 Gun Drones hanging out nearby as bubble wrap vs deep strikers will do and keep them sniper proof for several turns.
Yaktan wrote: Does anyone know where to find the Tau list that just won the GW heat tournement? Some people were talking about it in another thread, apparently it had the staple dakkasides, but also 6 or so pirahnas. I am interested in details.
It was posted in the stream's chat multiple times, though I'm sure a full list will be posted somewhere. Off the top of my head, it had Shadowsun, Cadre Fireblade, 3x Pirhana, 5x Pirhana, 3x Missile Broadsides, Riptide, 3x5 Strike Team with Markers (IIRC) (all Tau faction) and a Sa'cea group of an Ethereal and three Firesight Marksmen. Something like 18 total Seeker Missiles.
Yaktan wrote: Does anyone know where to find the Tau list that just won the GW heat tournement? Some people were talking about it in another thread, apparently it had the staple dakkasides, but also 6 or so pirahnas. I am interested in details.
It was posted in the stream's chat multiple times, though I'm sure a full list will be posted somewhere. Off the top of my head, it had Shadowsun, Cadre Fireblade, 3x Pirhana, 5x Pirhana, 3x Missile Broadsides, Riptide, 3x5 Strike Team with Markers (IIRC) (all Tau faction) and a Sa'cea group of an Ethereal and three Firesight Marksmen. Something like 18 total Seeker Missiles.
I like that Sa'cea idea on the Marksmen.
Ethereals and Marksmen are the primary units to benefit from Sa'cea. Ld10 Ethereals and re-rolling 3+ Markerlights. I'm surprised he didn't make a Battalion out of them with Markerlight Strike Teams + Marker Drones for extra command points (he basically spent all of them in turn one in the two games he was shown in), but hey, he went 6-0 for the GT, so I guess he knows what he's doing!
Ordana wrote: The Sa'cea Marksman Vanguard is about as cookie cutter as Tau lists get.
You should see it in basically every competitive Tau list.
I desperately want to field them in Tidewall Droneports. Marker Drones moving and hitting on 3+, just to see the look on people's faces (before they shoot them off the table).
Ordana wrote: The Sa'cea Marksman Vanguard is about as cookie cutter as Tau lists get.
You should see it in basically every competitive Tau list.
If I may ask, why the ethereal for the HQ slot and not a firesight marksman for the additional markerlight on a 2+ ? Or is it personal preference from list to list?
Ordana wrote: The Sa'cea Marksman Vanguard is about as cookie cutter as Tau lists get.
You should see it in basically every competitive Tau list.
If I may ask, why the ethereal for the HQ slot and not a firesight marksman for the additional markerlight on a 2+ ? Or is it personal preference from list to list?
The Ethereal provides several things that are not locked to a particular Sept, meaning you don't lose anything for taking him in a different sept from the rest of your list. Any Tau units can use his leadership, as well as his Invocation of the Elements abilities. The Fireblade's Volley Fire ability is sept-specific and so should match your Fire Warriors. If you just care about the markerlight, then sure go ahead and take a Fireblade.
The Ethereal provides several things that are not locked to a particular Sept, meaning you don't lose anything for taking him in a different sept from the rest of your list. Any Tau units can use his leadership, as well as his Invocation of the Elements abilities. The Fireblade's Volley Fire ability is sept-specific and so should match your Fire Warriors. If you just care about the markerlight, then sure go ahead and take a Fireblade.
Huh, never realised that was something they did, definitely makes more sense than what i was thinking of. If one wanted firepower they would fill the slot with a commander, so my thoughts were that they were going for the markerlights alone and all the associated sa'cea strategems. Though if the ethereal can run off and do its own thing elsewhere for everyone why not take it over a fireblade.
Fits the fluff too i suppose, a fireblade is looked up to as a hero from that particular septs fire caste only, but an ethereal has presence regardless of where they come from.
Yeah, for the competitive style dakkaside plus drone lists, an ethereal seems rather useful. Giving your shield drones good leadership can really help keep them around.
I have had drones run away a surprising number of times, and I just have a couple 2 drone squads that come with my stealth suits, or 4 man gun drone squads manta striking. That LD 6 is surprisingly bad. Cowardly little robots.
Yaktan wrote: Yeah, for the competitive style dakkaside plus drone lists, an ethereal seems rather useful. Giving your shield drones good leadership can really help keep them around.
I have had drones run away a surprising number of times, and I just have a couple 2 drone squads that come with my stealth suits, or 4 man gun drone squads manta striking. That LD 6 is surprisingly bad. Cowardly little robots.
Until my current list, i have used the crap out of Aun'Va. so much win in one little unit. Although i just didn't have the points for him in this list I'm using, I cannot type enough superlatives regarding his usefulness.
so what are peoples thoughts on running the XV84? I'm new to Tau (well new to anything post 5th edition Tau) and i'm going to run one with BC and CIB with A ghost walks among us and vectored thrusters. super mobile and 7 shots hitting on 2's each of which score ML hits.
The threat ranges are just the same, although the key difference is that the Ghostkeel has to move to get into range (and might have issues with penalties to hit on one of its weapons depending on upgrades/support/markerlights)
Defensively the ghostkeel has more wounds, higher toughness and a native -1 to enemy shooting but a worse save and it does degrade (although a broadside would be on its last wound by then so it is less of an issue than you might think.
115 vs 118 points before add-ons.
You do have to take 2 stealth drones with the ghostkeel but if you are not taking drones to protect your broadsides they will not last long.
The key thing is that broadsides come in units and they want to be stationary - that means that they fit perfectly with Shadowsun and her Kauyon + C&CN suite of buffs to have them re-rolling everything for 2 turns. Broadsides make a very powerful static firebase. Broadsides are also vulnerable to being tagged in combat because they lack the Fly keyword.
Ghostkeels on the other hand want to move around to take shots and do not come in units which can maximise the value from C&CN. They are pretty unconcerned with being tagged by enemy models as they can just fly away. They fit a far more mobile play style better suited to objective grabbing but less well suited to simply killing as much stuff as you possibly can. Some of the support systems are way more expensive on a ghostkeel, which you do need to watch out for as the cost of the suit can go up a lot.
I think Broadsides will continue to be the favoured choice in ITC with its emphasis on killing stuff and the enormous need for LOS ignoring weapons, which the SMS is and the BC is not. In CA18 missions I think the ghostkeel is a real sleeper unit, not yet being seen very commonly but it will do really well in that format.
Thanks inquisitor, I think the really interesting comparison with the ghostkeel is how it compares to a leman Russ, 6 vs 2d6 shots and the same profile if you take an ATS. same BS if you take a target lock 10 t6 wouns vs 12 T8 wounds but the ghostkeel gets -1 to hit and is way more mobile. Might not stack up perfectly but getting close to a LR is pretty impressive.
gendoikari87 wrote: Thanks inquisitor, I think the really interesting comparison with the ghostkeel is how it compares to a leman Russ, 6 vs 2d6 shots and the same profile if you take an ATS. same BS if you take a target lock 10 t6 wouns vs 12 T8 wounds but the ghostkeel gets -1 to hit and is way more mobile. Might not stack up perfectly but getting close to a LR is pretty impressive.
Leman Russ needs a lot of screening to keep it firing. Without a screen something just jumps in and touches it in combat to shut down the LR. Try that with a Ghostkeel and it will just fly away and shoot you again. Fly is a fantastic keyword to have.
I have used a singular Ghostkeel for a long while and it has done amazing things for me. I try and plant it RIGHT on their doorstep during deployment right where their best terrain piece is and watch the ants scatter. Too good. It's also hearty, and you can repair it on both your turn and his. I don't know about more than one, because what the one does is so specific and there's a point of diminishing returns.
I JUST attended a GT and used 8 Missilesides, but I didn't do all that well (in heavy part due to TO rulings, not because the Broadsides failed to impress). Having a unit of them is probably very advisable . Between the Commander letting you go off the hook for a turn with Command and Control plus the Master of War thing, you can REALLY do some damage. I crushed like 4 tanks in a round in one game thanks to that and even without it I was doing work. In one game this guy brought this cheeky SEVEN Eldar flyer list, with SEVEN Venoms. All he had left at games end were two archons on the table. so much for -1 to hit, because I had the Velocity Trackers on 6 of the broadsides and it was mission 4 (deploy everything missions) so I made him go first. Which he did not expect. Which did not help his cause. So that was fun.
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gendoikari87 wrote: Can someone do a brief rundown of the crisis suit commanders? they all look incredibly similar outside of the coldstar and XV84
I'd just get the Irridium armor one and the Shield Generator. I honestly wouldnt prefer the Coldstars becasue they are pretty much free head Hunter or Kingslayer points depending on your list.
I am not familiar with the forgeworld options, but for codex options for commanders you have:
Shadowsun, unique, locked to T'au sept, can deploy with ghostkeels/stealth suits, can give an extra turn of re-roll hit bubble. Gets special drones.
Farsight, unique, locked to Farsight Enclaves, is designed to operate in meele. I am not sure if he actually does much, but seems like even if he does, he will be all on his lonesome as the only meele model in the army. (I guess a blob of hounds could back him up?)
XV8, cheap, can take irridium for 2+ save. Lots of loadout options. I run one with missile pods/ats mostly because I have the model. Is reasonably costed (after chapter approved--he dropped 33 points!) and can put the hurt on light vehicles.
Enforcer, costs 4 points more for 1 more wound, no option for irridium. Some people like to run them with quad cyclic ion blasters, can work as as manta striking threat.
Coldstar, has the 20'' move, 20'' advance. Cannot take CIB, but has special burst cannon if you want to go for a dakka skirmisher build. I like mine with the quad fusion, though his utility is lessened by my meta being full of invuln saves, particularly imperial knights. On the other hand 4 2+ fusion blasters does make eldar planes very sad. Even got a 12 point drop in chapter approved. As noted above, the fast movement can bait you into bad decisions where you send him out in front and he dies, on the other hand used judiciously the movement can be a huge tactical boon, grabbing malestrom objectives, getting in close to zap annoying eldar planes, etc.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
I don't have a link to hand, but I can give you my 2 cents on the different Septs:
T'au Sept: Probably the best one, especially with armies like Orks, Genestealer Cults, and even Chaos around. Overwatching on 5's is a big deal, especially for a unit of Missilesides with Counterfire Defense Systems. It takes the Tau specialty (overwatching for other friendly units) and makes it even better. The Sept-specific stratagem is also very handy for killing big stuff. Plus, most of the decent named characters (Shadowsun, Darkstrider, Longstrike) are T'au Sept.
Sa'cea Sept: This is a good one for Markerlights. A common strategy is to ally in an Ethereal and 3 Firesight Marksmen in a Sa'cea Vanguard detachment to give rerolling markerlights, plus the increased leadership on the Ethereal is handy for keeping other units from failing morale tests. Sa'cea also has a very nice stratagem to put a markerlight counter on every unit within 6 inches of a spot on the battlefield, making it easy to give your army reroll 1's to hit.
Bor'kan Sept: This is probably the only decent Sept besides T'au to build an army around. Increased range on heavy and rapid fire weapons is very handy. This is the best sept for the FW XV109 Y'vahra, as otherwise the range on its 3-damage flamer weapon is too short to be effective.
Vior'la Sept: The only reason I think I'd ever take this one is if I wanted to run a lot of Breacher Teams, and frankly those aren't terribly competitive right now. Their stratagem isn't bad (being able to shoot twice with a unit always helps), but the trait itself is kind of meh compared to some of the others.
Dal'yth Sept: The worst one of the bunch. Getting better saves if you don't move is not too bad, I guess, but generally in an objective-based game you want to be moving, which means you don't get anything from the Sept Tenet. The associated Warlord Trait is hot garbage too unless for some reason you really really want to run Kroot and Vespids.
Farsight Enclaves: Shooting better when close to the enemy is nice, but honestly Tau don't want to be close to the enemy as they are highly allergic to melee combat. The Fusion Blades are nice to have as a relic, though, but not worth giving up a better Sept Tenet.
Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
No, but it's an interesting question. Theres not much for discussion really since its one page of info but one could i suppose expand on it some in practical terms.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.
A ghost walks among us + Vectored thrusters + XV84 seems decent
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
No, but it's an interesting question. Theres not much for discussion really since its one page of info but one could i suppose expand on it some in practical terms.
It's less about the amount of information and more about the number of units affected by the Sept tenets.
For example using Bor'kan Pathfinders in conjunction with Sa'cea Strike teams with imbeded MLs can net you a total of 20 ML hits. Your opponent is left with 3 options try to shoot through large numbers of high LD models, move in close enough to put serious firepower on the pathfinders, or ignore the MLs entirely.
There is no single answer, it depends on the battle suit in question.
Sa'cea is great for solo Broadsides with heavy rail rifles, that one re-roll per unit really pays off here.
A maximum unit of Broadsides with all the missiles is probably better off in T'au sept - and the classic build is to take those with Shadowsun to make a static firebase.
Bork'an is awesome on the Y'vahra for the extra range on the weapons.
Farsight Enclaves has a great stratagem for big powerful units of Crisis Suits.
It all depends what your battlesuit is and how you want to play it.
I am going to second T'au sept for any suits. The sept strat is just so awesome, particularly if you expect to face knights. My ghostkeels eat imperial knights for lunch.
gendoikari87 wrote: has anyone used ghostkeels and XV-25s against orks? how doe they fare?
I did. He had a hybrid list though and not the super competitive version. I wiped him. But I dont know what it might be like currently. odd but I didnt face any orks the last couple events with my Tau.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.
So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.
So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.
Lol 25 lootas vs Ghostkeel
425 points vs 150 points
If they didn't kill him I would be worried.
Edit: And there is no more reason to assume Badmoon Clan then there is to assume Dal'yth Sept. Which would net you 1-2 more saves. Not to mention your using 3 CP.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.
So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.
Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1
Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.
In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.
So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.
Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1
Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.
In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons
Dakka Dakka Dakka allows always hitting on 6. More Dakka! changes this to 5+ the math is right.
I'm still wondering why an Ork army (Which is melee focused) would not use melee on a short range unit which main down fall is it's terrible in melee.
gendoikari87 wrote: My buddy whos an ork player keeps going on about how the -1 wont matter because dakka dakka dakka. But thats still effectively -50% shooting
Lootas with the More Dakka! strat will still delete a Ghostkeel very quickly.
That's still an average of 34 lootas
34 lootas average about 90 shots with more dakka on a 5 or 6. 15 hit 10 wound 2 go to drones. 8 get to the ghostkeel and 5 make it through 5+ armor
so it's unlikely they take one down in a single turn unless it's a huge 300+ point unit. the bigger problem is the 30 or so grots in front of them taking shots for the lootas.
Something seems off about your math. Let's assume it's a big unit of Lootas (25 because of a 15 and a 10 that used Mob Up), and they roll 2 for their number of shots, which is average. I'm also saying they are Bad Moons so they get to reroll 1's.
So in the first volley that's 50 shots, which gives us around 16 hits and 8 1's to reroll, which gives us a further 3 hits (numbers are rounded) for a total of 19 hits. These 19 hits give us 19 extra shots from More Dakka! which get 6 additional hits and 3 rerolls, one of which will statistically become a hit. So 19 + 7 = 26 hits total after rerolls. Those will wound a Ghostkeel on 3's, so that's 18 wounds at AP-1. 2 go on drones and kill them, leaving 16 4+ saves for the Ghostkeel to make. Ghostkeel is dead on average dice (8 failed 4+ saves x 2 damage apiece). The Lootas can then use Showin' Off since they are Bad Moons and proceed to shoot something else, although that goes beyond the scope of the discussion.
Your math is off because you're assuming they hit on 5's, they don't, they hit on 6 Ghostkeel itself still has a native -1
Edit: unless you're within 6" but if you got orks within 6" you got bigger problems than lootas.
In any event the ork player i play doesn't have many lootas, he uses something far more dangerous. units of 5 death skulls tankbustas in battle wagons
Dakka Dakka Dakka allows always hitting on 6. More Dakka! changes this to 5+ the math is right.
I'm still wondering why an Ork army (Which is melee focused) would not use melee on a short range unit which main down fall is it's terrible in melee.
more dakka only lets you trigger more attacks on a 5 right?
Fast attack
12x Tactical drones (8 shield 4 marker)
Heavy Support
3x Broadsides (2 missilesides with ATS and 1 railside with Drone controller)
Thoughts? I was going to do triple ghostkeels in a separate detatchment with a misslepod commander but figure missilesides are just too dang good
Well i have found that one Ghostkeel can be INCREDIBLY hearty and play above its points because of the Stratagems. After the first guy, I am much more in doubt. Riptides are the same way. The Codex doesn't reward you nearly as much for taking multiples of the bigger units.
Also: can't even begin to recommend the Shield Generator enough for the Ghostkeel. It's money in the bank. Skip the ATS on Ghostkeels.
Is the ats really not that useful? -1 seems weak for anti tank? Also theres a strategy with the second ghostkeel, since both can be deployed outside of your deployment, you put them on opposite side of the board as bait, let your opponent go after them and focus fire the broadsides and ghostkeel/XV25 on one flank and skirt with the other
gendoikari87 wrote: Is the ats really not that useful? -1 seems weak for anti tank? Also theres a strategy with the second ghostkeel, since both can be deployed outside of your deployment, you put them on opposite side of the board as bait, let your opponent go after them and focus fire the broadsides and ghostkeel/XV25 on one flank and skirt with the other
the ATS is useful but WAY not as useful for the Ghostkeel as the Shield Generator will be. The things that will try to knock it out aren't playing around. They will have high AP. At LVO I deployed a Ghostkeel like right outside his deployment zone, my very first drop. That things lasted the whole game. I also planted the Fusion Cannon and Fusion Blasters on him. Good times. But the extra -1 ap is not better than having that ghostkeep frustrate your opponent, and you can use the 2CP repair stratagem at the start of BOTH your turn AND his turn. So... You can keep that guy upright for a long time. Just saying.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ordana wrote: The advantage of 2 Ghost Keels is you can keep them together and have -2 to hit so long as any of the 4 drones are alive (and in range).
Killing 4 drones isnt difficult enough to want to do it though.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Edit: And there is no more reason to assume Badmoon Clan then there is to assume Dal'yth Sept. Which would net you 1-2 more saves. Not to mention your using 3 CP.
Well are we talking about competive lists or not? Is Dal'yth common for competive tau lists? No? In competive list lootas ARE bad moons so 25 lootas will avereage 54 shots. Actually bit more as d3 shots with command reroll nets to average of 2.333 shots but it's swingy since it's 1 roll for all models for both shots so it's either 54 hits or 80 hits in aveage with long run evening toward 63 hits.
You don't consider snakebite lootas or goff lootas because nobody takes them. Of course if it's casual whatever list it's another thing but in competive list if it's lootas it's bad moon. That's how good bad moons are for them. And when you are thinking about going vs tau you pretty much assume you'll be facing 5+ overwatch from tons of units because that's what you see in tournaments. You don't go around expecting vior'la and say "tau overwatch is easy peasy"
So you will average about 36 wounds to ghostkeel. Drones of course will help if opponent doesn't have shootaboyz/dakkajets/mekguns etc to clear.
gendoikari87 wrote: What are people’s thoughts on pathfinders? They seem like they’re holding giant “shoot me first” signs
Giant shoot me but you need to get markerlights from somewhere. Just 3 Marksman is often not enough.
Hence why 2 Cadre fireblades and/or darkstrider are common HQ choices.
However a Firewarrior shas ui with markerlight can spread the risk of your opponent being able to go and no markerlights for you.
Especially if charictor protection becomes as unreliable as some people believe, with GSC and Assasins.
gendoikari87 wrote: You can make killing 4 drones impossible if your opponent has no weapons that can fire without los. Granted that is Terran dependent
Depending on terrain is not a strategy as people who attended lvo can attest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote: What are people’s thoughts on pathfinders? They seem like they’re holding giant “shoot me first” signs
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
Vior'la Sept: The only reason I think I'd ever take this one is if I wanted to run a lot of Breacher Teams, and frankly those aren't terribly competitive right now. Their stratagem isn't bad (being able to shoot twice with a unit always helps), but the trait itself is kind of meh compared to some of the others.
Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.
A little late to the party here, but I've been experimenting with very aggressive, compact units of Viorl'a and I've been having fairly good results. I put a pair of stealth suit teams in cover in the middle of the board for a delaying action, and they almost always have survive until turn 2 or 3. Sometimes I support them with my Coldstar. Then I bum rush a riptide or two, a pair of CIB Crisis commanders, and a Devilfish full of infantry+fireblades up one side of the board, amply supported, of course, by marker and shield drones. The beauty of this is that the Tau's superior dakka and mobility allows me to engage the enemy in pieces, which I can exterminate with ease, while my well-placed stealth suits keep them from concentrating their forces on my flanks and backfield, and my Coldstar keeps them wary of tearing forward as I did, for fear of finding a Coldstar in their backfield. The lack of a penalty to Advancing due to Viorl'a means that my CIB commanders are still hitting 12 S7 AP-1 shots on 2+ even while I'm rushing, and my Coldstar is virtually guaranteed to disintegrate whatever he directs his quadruple fusions on, even if he moves his full 40". Once I get into close range my Breachers can exterminate any infantry that the Riptides and Commanders didn't get, especially with the Hot Blooded stratagem.
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
Vior'la Sept: The only reason I think I'd ever take this one is if I wanted to run a lot of Breacher Teams, and frankly those aren't terribly competitive right now. Their stratagem isn't bad (being able to shoot twice with a unit always helps), but the trait itself is kind of meh compared to some of the others.
Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.
A little late to the party here, but I've been experimenting with very aggressive, compact units of Viorl'a and I've been having fairly good results. I put a pair of stealth suit teams in cover in the middle of the board for a delaying action, and they almost always have survive until turn 2 or 3. Sometimes I support them with my Coldstar. Then I bum rush a riptide or two, a pair of CIB Crisis commanders, and a Devilfish full of infantry+fireblades up one side of the board, amply supported, of course, by marker and shield drones. The beauty of this is that the Tau's superior dakka and mobility allows me to engage the enemy in pieces, which I can exterminate with ease, while my well-placed stealth suits keep them from concentrating their forces on my flanks and backfield, and my Coldstar keeps them wary of tearing forward as I did, for fear of finding a Coldstar in their backfield. The lack of a penalty to Advancing due to Viorl'a means that my CIB commanders are still hitting 12 S7 AP-1 shots on 2+ even while I'm rushing, and my Coldstar is virtually guaranteed to disintegrate whatever he directs his quadruple fusions on, even if he moves his full 40". Once I get into close range my Breachers can exterminate any infantry that the Riptides and Commanders didn't get, especially with the Hot Blooded stratagem.
Thanks for that tactical suggestion. It was interesting. At what point level is that?
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Does anyone know of a video, or post, that takes about the different Septs and which ones synergize well with one another.
Vior'la Sept: The only reason I think I'd ever take this one is if I wanted to run a lot of Breacher Teams, and frankly those aren't terribly competitive right now. Their stratagem isn't bad (being able to shoot twice with a unit always helps), but the trait itself is kind of meh compared to some of the others.
Another thing to note: at least in my experience, despite having quite a selection of Warlord Traits to choose from (generic and Sept-specific), the only halfway decent one is Through Unity, Devastation. All of the others are way too situational IMO, and some are downright useless. We do have some good relics, at least, especially T'au Sept's Vectored Maneuvering Thruster and the Puretide Chip.
A little late to the party here, but I've been experimenting with very aggressive, compact units of Viorl'a and I've been having fairly good results. I put a pair of stealth suit teams in cover in the middle of the board for a delaying action, and they almost always have survive until turn 2 or 3. Sometimes I support them with my Coldstar. Then I bum rush a riptide or two, a pair of CIB Crisis commanders, and a Devilfish full of infantry+fireblades up one side of the board, amply supported, of course, by marker and shield drones. The beauty of this is that the Tau's superior dakka and mobility allows me to engage the enemy in pieces, which I can exterminate with ease, while my well-placed stealth suits keep them from concentrating their forces on my flanks and backfield, and my Coldstar keeps them wary of tearing forward as I did, for fear of finding a Coldstar in their backfield. The lack of a penalty to Advancing due to Viorl'a means that my CIB commanders are still hitting 12 S7 AP-1 shots on 2+ even while I'm rushing, and my Coldstar is virtually guaranteed to disintegrate whatever he directs his quadruple fusions on, even if he moves his full 40". Once I get into close range my Breachers can exterminate any infantry that the Riptides and Commanders didn't get, especially with the Hot Blooded stratagem.
Thanks for that tactical suggestion. It was interesting. At what point level is that?
1500-2000. It is possible that my FLGS has players more vulnerable to non-gunlining Tau than others, as I am aware that metas vary based on location. The strategy, however, has proved a fairly sound one so far.
1500-2000. It is possible that my FLGS has players more vulnerable to non-gunlining Tau than others, as I am aware that metas vary based on location. The strategy, however, has proved a fairly sound one so far.
I dont argue with success. So I am playing this through my mind.
Victory for tau vs a triple bonebreaka list. Strategy worked like a charm. The stealth teams had him spreading his forces too thin against targets that did not matter
Victory for tau vs a triple bonebreaka list. Strategy worked like a charm. The stealth teams had him spreading his forces too thin against targets that did not matter
Could we have a play-by-play? I'm interested in your use of the broadsides. Did you screen them, or just make them less interesting targets by use of the stealth suits?
well there's not much to say, it was Running battle and i was the attacker. I should also note that this was my first game with tau since i sold mine off in 2009.
Deployment: my opponent plays orks brought a crazy list of three trukks with boyz and three bonebreakas with just a mek each (for the 5++) he deploys everything in a parking lot north side of the defenders zone.
I deploy Unit 1 Anvil (commander, broadsides, fireblade, drones, and firewarriors) in the middle of the attackers deployment zone being careful that everything is 6" away from board edge. A building provided perfect LOS blocking terrain for the drones.
Unit 2 (Ghostkeel 1 and stealthsuits 1) gets placed clear smack dab in back all the way to the east since it's not the enemy's deployment zone or within 12" of any enemy units. in fact it is just barely over 24" from the ghostkeel
Unit 3 (the other set of stealth units and ghostkeel) are placed just outside of the defenders deployment zone at the far south.
ork player then redeploys units with a warlord trait or strategem not sure which. he redeploys one of the bonebreakas to the south right next to the ghostkeel
my Turn 1, I ended up dropping 6/9 CP on this turn, as i had range, LOS and range on well everything. Got ML off on one of the bonebreakas still with the parking lot then one of the firewarrior squads and hit with a ML and did a wound with the Pulse rifles, so used uplinked markerlight and the tau sept strat that adds 1 to wounds rolls got it up to 5 ML and also had command and control node on the broadsides.....and proceeded to fire all three broadsides into the bonebreaka. completely vaporizing the poor thing.
the ghostkeels got a few potshots off but didn't do much.
Opponents turn 1. he started moving everything out to the far end of the board with the other ghostkeel. was able to shoot the stealthsuits off the board by firing three trukks and their full compliment of shoota boyz as well as another bonebreaka at them. this of course meant the only thing that has distance to charge was the bonebreaka redeployed to the south. which he did. managed to lose a few wounds to overwatch but managed not to kill the ghostkeel in CC because the dones ate enough bonebreaka hits and the ghostkeel passed 1 save.
My Turn 2 smelling blood in the water i got 5 ml on the southern bonebreaka which allowed the ghostkeels and remaining stealthsuit team to polish off the bonebreaka. i then turned the broadsides to a trukk to ensure victory. They succeeded. the end. Game over was conceded then and there because 2 bonebreakas and a trukk were a third of his PL. ensuring at least a minor victory for me.
gendoikari87 wrote: As nice as 8 broadsides sound i chose tau because they were a bit more mobile. Guard gunline got boring
ironically i agree and this was a change of pace army. i decided i owned SO MANY for no good reason, that I would just throw them on a table and see what happeend. Turns out, they kinda are scary.
gendoikari87 wrote: As nice as 8 broadsides sound i chose tau because they were a bit more mobile. Guard gunline got boring
ironically i agree and this was a change of pace army. i decided i owned SO MANY for no good reason, that I would just throw them on a table and see what happeend. Turns out, they kinda are scary.
yeah i only took a railside and 2 missile sides and thought i'd need to struggle to get them to kill a wagon. turns out it only needed 2 at the most.
gendoikari87 wrote: As nice as 8 broadsides sound i chose tau because they were a bit more mobile. Guard gunline got boring
ironically i agree and this was a change of pace army. i decided i owned SO MANY for no good reason, that I would just throw them on a table and see what happeend. Turns out, they kinda are scary.
yeah i only took a railside and 2 missile sides and thought i'd need to struggle to get them to kill a wagon. turns out it only needed 2 at the most.
Well the Command and Control Stratagem is just soooooo goooooood with them and a Master of War to power them. They become devastatingly effective. So much so that I even SPLIT my fire on the unit doing it, while firing at a couple Leman Russ's. I thought "well shoot, lets see how close we can get BOTH tanks at once, and then determine from there how much more i REALLY need to devote to ending them instead of wasting the next units fire on overkilling them". This strategy worked well.
gendoikari87 wrote: As nice as 8 broadsides sound i chose tau because they were a bit more mobile. Guard gunline got boring
ironically i agree and this was a change of pace army. i decided i owned SO MANY for no good reason, that I would just throw them on a table and see what happeend. Turns out, they kinda are scary.
yeah i only took a railside and 2 missile sides and thought i'd need to struggle to get them to kill a wagon. turns out it only needed 2 at the most.
Well the Command and Control Stratagem is just soooooo goooooood with them and a Master of War to power them. They become devastatingly effective. So much so that I even SPLIT my fire on the unit doing it, while firing at a couple Leman Russ's. I thought "well shoot, lets see how close we can get BOTH tanks at once, and then determine from there how much more i REALLY need to devote to ending them instead of wasting the next units fire on overkilling them". This strategy worked well.
I need to mathhammer it but i think three missile sides with Kauyon, Command and control, and focus fire can take down a castellan
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: negatory, 18 wounds.
gendoikari87 wrote: Why are seeker missiles on stealth drones different from those in the codex? Will this be fixed?
Because all seeker missiles in the index caused 1 mortal wound, and were changed in the codex to be s8 ap-2 D6 damage. The Remora Stealth Drones are not a codex unit, so still use the Index entry.
Kauyon clarification is very nice. Same for the detaching Drones (i.e. they are treated as disembarking when the vehicle they are attached to is destroyed).
The T'au Sept overwatch on 5s and 6s only works with another T'au Sept unit nearby and that is not so nice but it's not a big problem either.
The explanation of the Fireblade's Volley Fire ability (extra shot on pulse weapons at half range) is definitely an oversight and I will continue playing the pulse rifles with 1 shot at full range and 3 at half range (instead of 2 and 3 like that wording may imply). Note that the Volley Fire ability hasn't been touched so it comes into effect only at half range.
The T'au Sept overwatch on 5s and 6s only works with another T'au Sept unit nearby and that is not so nice but it's not a big problem either.
did it allow that before, the way i read it, it sure sounded like you needed at least one other unit. Not that that's a problem for the KP pinata that is tau drones.
The T'au Sept overwatch on 5s and 6s only works with another T'au Sept unit nearby and that is not so nice but it's not a big problem either.
did it allow that before, the way i read it, it sure sounded like you needed at least one other unit. Not that that's a problem for the KP pinata that is tau drones.
The wording change is tiny.
It from from 'A friendly T'au sept unit within 6" ' to 'Another friendly T'au sept unit within 6" '.
The problem with the original wording is that a unit is within range of itself so it was always true. The new wording actually needs a 2nd unit like intended.
Hey guys, im not a tau player but i play against them often.
A friend of mine has been having a hard time beating my Drukhari and i was wondering how the matchup usually plays out for you guys and i you had any tips for him to beat me.
We've talked and tried to figure out what he was doing wrong and noticed that most of the time i end up with total map control (which i think is to be expected given my mobility).
His list seems to be the traditional Riptide + strike teams / Broadside + strike teams with some marksmen/commander sprinked in there while i run a mostly wych cult + coven list
I feel like his motivation is dropping and i'd like to help him improve his play.
Quick question: if unit a charges tau unit B and succeeds and gets i to base contact with unit b, and then enemy unit c charges tau unit b can another tau unit within 6” of B fire overwatch at c
gendoikari87 wrote: Quick question: if unit a charges tau unit B and succeeds and gets i to base contact with unit b, and then enemy unit c charges tau unit b can another tau unit within 6” of B fire overwatch at c
That's how I have played it. FTGG doesn't require overwatch to go off. simply being declared the target of a charge. I will often wait to fire certain units if I think I'm going to get charged multiple times in order to get shots off on everyone.
- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?
- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.
- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?
what sept are you thinking about? I have been thinking about Dal'yth so as to benefit from the 'Fire and Fade' stratagem, which is actually the classic JSJ. I have been thinking 2 Missile Pods with ATS.
- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?
- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.
Triple CIB is really the only all around option. Missiles you're paying a huge premium for the range and you might as well go HYMP Broadside with those points. Plasma is a MEQ/TEQ killer but bad against most other infantry and vehicles (low shots, low damage). Fusion is great for killing big stuff but you won't get too many shots and have to be close. CIB have lots of shots, high S and can get D3 damage if you overcharge, they do it all at a decent range.
I have a squad with dual plasma and a missile pod on each suit. It is a nice all-round load. I have not run them enough times to really get a solid feel for how good it really is, but it fit nicely in the hole left after the chapter approved point drops chopped so much off of my armies point costs.
Having run the numbers, plasma is cheap enough to be a good all-rounder gun; if you run triple plasma they will average 5 dead marines vs. the 6.66 for twenty fire warriors with a fireblade. The suits cost 135 points vs. the 182 for the infantry, so they squeak out slightly ahead on efficiency. Against anything with a good save and not too good of an invuln they will do well. Against guard type dudes with bad saves, the firewarriors do come out quite ahead, at 13.3 vs 7.5 for the suits. On the other hand, the suits do much, much better if you have 2+ saves to worry about, or T5 3+ units (e.g. plauge marines) and most importantly the suits can drop in anywhere you want. That is the big reason I include my squad, is to be able to get board presence, grab back objectives, etc.
I ended up giving mine missile pods instead of pure plasma. For just the 3 it is a minor adjustment, mostly a choice between that or two extra gun drones (which, to be fair, are quite nice) and I decided that the missile pod on the shoulder just looks so, so much better than a third plasma rifle there. Also the extra range to allow them to impact stuff after they clear out their drop zone seems really nice; my army has too many short range dudes as it is.
Yaktan wrote: I have a squad with dual plasma and a missile pod on each suit. It is a nice all-round load. I have not run them enough times to really get a solid feel for how good it really is, but it fit nicely in the hole left after the chapter approved point drops chopped so much off of my armies point costs.
Having run the numbers, plasma is cheap enough to be a good all-rounder gun; if you run triple plasma they will average 5 dead marines vs. the 6.66 for twenty fire warriors with a fireblade. The suits cost 135 points vs. the 182 for the infantry, so they squeak out slightly ahead on efficiency. Against anything with a good save and not too good of an invuln they will do well. Against guard type dudes with bad saves, the firewarriors do come out quite ahead, at 13.3 vs 7.5 for the suits. On the other hand, the suits do much, much better if you have 2+ saves to worry about, or T5 3+ units (e.g. plauge marines) and most importantly the suits can drop in anywhere you want. That is the big reason I include my squad, is to be able to get board presence, grab back objectives, etc.
I ended up giving mine missile pods instead of pure plasma. For just the 3 it is a minor adjustment, mostly a choice between that or two extra gun drones (which, to be fair, are quite nice) and I decided that the missile pod on the shoulder just looks so, so much better than a third plasma rifle there. Also the extra range to allow them to impact stuff after they clear out their drop zone seems really nice; my army has too many short range dudes as it is.
Its the invul save spam that is the issue for plasma. Thats why Fiure Warriors are still kinda boss's
Yeah, handling invuln saves is where something like the Cyclic Ion blaster shines. Against infantry they are about the same as plasma (a hair worse vs. marines, a little better vs. guard) for nearly twice the cost; however they really do work when you come to multi-wound targets. And they suffer little fall-off vs. things like knights that rely on invuln saves, since the blasters do not rely on using AP to do their damage, they just spam out high strength multi-damage shots. A squad of 4 suits with triple blasters can average a dead castellan with markerlight and strat support (specifically the farsight strat and C and C node--which can be provided by Farsight dropping in with them.)
- What's a good all-rounder loadout for Crisis suits? I tried to magnetise them, but it really seems like too much hassle so thinking of Plasma/Fusion, Plasma/Missile or CIBs? Any advice?
- What's the current consensus on XV9 Hazards? For a while they've been pretty overpriced but for around 200-ish points you can get a squad putting out 48 Heavy Bolter shots, with T5 5W each, sounds pretty decent to be honest.
You're really going to want to magnetize them. The fluidity this allows you in changing your strategy cannot be overstated, and in the long run it's much, much less work than having to use a detail knife to cut off the parts every time you want to change your loadout, not to mention wear and tear on the stuff getting cut. All you need are some rare earth magnets, a drill, and some superglue. I magnetized 6 Crisis suits and and three full loadouts for each suit in the space of a Saturday afternoon, and it was much better than blu-tack.
I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.
However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.
Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.
Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.
The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.
I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).
Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?
Jancoran wrote: I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.
However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.
Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.
Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.
The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.
I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).
Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?
Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.
Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.
A full squad of Dakka broadsides, with missiles, smart missiles, and ATS will cost 363 points. With max buffing (Marker lights, Kayo'un, C and C node, Focus Fire) they will do:
Missile Pods: 24 x 8/9 x 3/4 x 1/2 x 2 = 16 damage average to a 4++ knight plus half that for the smart missiles, so 24 damage total.
A Squad of 4 triple Ion crisis suits will cost 324 points. There are two paths to full buffs, either tau for focused fire, or farsight for drop zone clear. Let us look at both.
Tau: 36 x 7/9 x 8/9 x 1/2 x 2 = 24.9 damage
Farsight: 36 x 35/36 x 3/4 x 1/2 x 2 = 26.25 damage
Now, the broadsides have a range advantage and if there is somewhere to go, they can sacrifice a little firepower to get Mont'ka'ed into position first turn (or later if you are fine sacrificing 3 damage to wait)
The crisis suits on the other hand have shorter range, but are innately mobile, and can drop in where you want.
On the other hand, this means the broadsides work from turn one, while the crisis suits not so much, though you can deploy them on the board, but 26'' is a bit limiting for a threat range.
Now for defense, the biggest thing is to protect them with drones. Once the drones are dead, we can compare their durability. Let us use bolters, disintigrator cannons, battlecannons, and Lascannons
Bolters, to kill
Broadsides: 18 wounds x 6 for 2+ save x 3 for T6 vs S4 = 324 bolter hits
Crisis suits: 12 wounds x 3 for 3+ save x 3 for T5 vs S4 = 108 bolter hits
Notice the broadsides have more wounds and a better save, making them 3x more durable vs. small arms. To compare, to kill 350 points of fire warriors would take
Firewarriors: 50 wounds x 2 for 4+ save x 1.5 for T3 vs S4 = 150 bolter hits
So the crisis suits are a little easier to take down than 50 firewarriors, but either way that is a lot of bolter fire.
Now for more realistic weapons.
Dissy:
Broadsides: 3 unsaved wounds to kill x 3 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 3 for T6 = 40.5 dissy hits to kill or a couple turns of dedicated ravager fire
Crisis: 2 wounds to kill x 4 models x 6/5 for 6+ x 2 for T5 = 19.2 dissy hits to kill, so half the durabilty. Ouch!
Battlecannon:
Broadsides: 3ish wounds to kill x 3 models x 2 for 4+ save x 1.5 for S8 vs T6 = 27 battlecannon hits.
Crisis: 2ish, wounds to kill x 4 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 1.5 for T5 = 18 battlecannon hits. Closer but still only 2/3 the durability, and I was fudging the number of unsaved wounds needed (I do not feel like figuring out how to back out the random damage effect precisely)
Lascannon:
Broadsides: 2ish wounds to kill x 3 models x 1.5 for 5+ save x 1.5 for T6 = 13.5 lascannon hits
Crisis: 1.5 ish wounds to kill x 4 models x 6/5 for 6+ save x 1.5 for T5 = 10.8 lascannon hits
So, the crisis suits get sad when being shot at; this is mitigated by starting off the board. Either way, drones are love, drones are life.
Jancoran wrote: I am not a fan of Crisis Suits. They are less expensive now, which is certainly good, but I have thought many times of using them and each time come to the same conclusion: too easy to remove for the points spent and spending even more points on Drones ot keep them upright adds to the problem.
However in a recent list I have been using i did a bit of mathing on how to eliminate a Castellan and while my list is quite deadly against basically everything I can think of, it doesn't kill a Castellan fast enough because of a variety of reasons. It can nerf one fairly quickly but it can't get the job done before it can do severe damage to me and its range allows it at least the CHOICE to stay out of range of my heavier hitters, especially when it goes second.
Enter the 6 man Crisis team. Armed with 3 Cyclic Ion per suit, it hits 44 times with Markerlight support and thus does about 11D3 damage to a 4+ save Knight. About 22 wounds, and in round one it would have help from Seeker Missiles to chip 6 more off. It also has volume of fire and High str. So the unit can hurt anything, not just Knights. It doesn't therefore end up having any particularly specialize role in the army. It gets the jump on the stinking Castllan every time as long as you clear the blockers.
Their range sucks and that's a thing for sure. Having said that, the points expenditure (about 500 points) IS less than the two Railsides and Riptide they replace. They can be protected in the same way as the Riptide. More wounds, less Toughness, no invul. More volume of fire, stronger volume of fire.
The added bonus is they have the greater mobility compared to their Broadside buddies.
I don't know. I kinda like the idea. I've avoided Crisis Teams for a good long time but they can also take the 2+ save guys in the units (Battlescribe errors if you take two for some reason, but the rules say you can).
Thoughts? Anyone fielded this particular config 6 strong?
Do we have any number crunchers here? Broadsides are probably the gold standard, should compare how much that crisis suit team does to a knight, for the same point cost, and how much return fire durability they lose or gain with lower toughness but more wounds etc.
The numbers are good but its the return fire I am worried about.
I did the numbers with Markerlights.
I forecast 10.5 D3 damage to a 4+ Invul Knight in a volley. Cost is 496 for the unit to do it so...
Six Broadsides (a lot more points) firing The High Yield pods do about 6.22 d3 wounds against a 4+ invul Knight. Add in 4.15 Smart Missile wounds. So all in all, not as good at killing Castellans. The STR difference in the weapons plays big and so does ROF.
Now Broadsides will be far more likely to benefit from Master of War. Obviously all numbers change when it goes off but at its essence, this is baseline with 5 Markerlights, No Master of War going off.
I’m trying out some battle suits. I got a trio with missiles and velocity tracker. One unit with 8 plasma rifles and drone controller (and 10 drones) and a third of bodyguards with all burst cannons who go with the quad fusion commander for taking out transports and their occupants
The one caution I would add to suit bombs especially farsight onea is they can become very underwhelming should a vect or plan counter be thrown out at the wrong moment.
Actually is pretty interesting in coldstars and commanders. Gives you an extra punch that can be enough in order to finish small infantry units. Not much but better than nothing
Hello everyone. I’m making the plunge into Tau and have a few questions. Is 3 commanders in 3 battalions the way to go? Stormsurge any good, or is triptide just to good to not take? How many fire warriors is a good number? Marksmen or no? I know the shielded 21 is a must. Crisis suits have a place with their points? Hammerheads night show now that the castellan might not be AS prevalent?
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Hello everyone. I’m making the plunge into Tau and have a few questions. Is 3 commanders in 3 battalions the way to go? Stormsurge any good, or is triptide just to good to not take? How many fire warriors is a good number? Marksmen or no? I know the shielded 21 is a must. Crisis suits have a place with their points? Hammerheads night show now that the castellan might not be AS prevalent?
Tau is right now in a good spot and fortunatly your questions have more than one correct answer. In general, everything depends on your playstyle and the missions you are playing. I see the riptide like our most valuable option, durable, shooty and fast. I dont belive that we need three of them, but two at least.
I'd like to see how the meta evolves with the nerf to the castellan beacause it is an indiect buff to our longstrike and friends. Even with the castellan, these guys have their place.
Regarding stormsurge and crisis, i see them to play casual or narrative games. You can find some advantages using both but in general we have better resources to do what they bring to the table (hello riptides and broadsides)
Fire warrior may vary in your list between 15 and 70, but i see about 30-35 of them the right number for a balanced army
Commanders are awesome usefull, play at least two.
Marksmen in sacea sept are wonderful. I always play with them
Do the Cadre Fireblade's Volley Fire still stack? If I fill all the redundant HQ slots with them, can I still get an ungodly number of shots from a firebase (eg 2+ additional shots from affected models?)
carldooley wrote: Do the Cadre Fireblade's Volley Fire still stack? If I fill all the redundant HQ slots with them, can I still get an ungodly number of shots from a firebase (eg 2+ additional shots from affected models?)
Abilities and aura's with the same name do not stack unless noted otherwise.
so no.
Rulebook faq
Q: Lots of aura abilities say they grant an ability to nearby
units that are within range of any such models. Are the bonuses
cumulative (i.e. if I am within range of two models with identical
aura abilities, is the bonus doubled)?
A: Unless stated otherwise, no. The bonus for such an
ability applies once if any (i.e. one or more) of these
models are within range.
What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also what exactly IS the shielded 21? i assume 21 shield drones but any specific configuration?
I’ve seen it build in any combination that equals 21 but usually 3 squads of 7. I’m asking these big questions cause today I’m dropping lots of cash on a 2000 or more pt army at my LGS. I wanna know what I should focus on purchasing as a new tau player
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also what exactly IS the shielded 21? i assume 21 shield drones but any specific configuration?
I’ve seen it build in any combination that equals 21 but usually 3 squads of 7. I’m asking these big questions cause today I’m dropping lots of cash on a 2000 or more pt army at my LGS. I wanna know what I should focus on purchasing as a new tau player
I hear you can't go wrong with misslesides or triptide wing.
I think triple battalion is overkill for Tau.
You unlikely to need that many CP and it makes you take to many things you probably don't want to to fill them out instead of the actual meat of a list in Broadsides/Riptides/Ghostkeels ect.
Firewarriors are good, I'm not disputing that. But you don't need 9 squads of them.
Units of 5 FW really don't leverage the advantages of the stuff that can buff them - Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal, Darkstrider, Drones, Commanders.
If you're worried about Morale, bring a Sa'cea Ethereal along with your Sa'cea Firesight Marksmen. His Ld10 and Invocation of the Elements works on other septs.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: How would you recommend broadsides? 1 unit of 3, 2 units of 2 or 2 units of 3
Command and Control Node (general stratagem) allows wound re-rolls for a single Battlesuit unit. This is really, really good for Missilesides, less good for Railsides. So if you go for missiles, group them up, but you can spread out railgun Broadsides without worrying.
Ok so from my LGS, I got 3 Riptide’s, 3 broadsides, a stormsurge, 3 commanders, 2 ethereal, 30 fire warriors, 10 pathfinders, Darkstrider, a Fireblade, 2 ghostkeel, and a ton of drones plus codex and databcards. Let’s see if I can make this work
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Ok so from my LGS, I got 3 Riptide’s, 3 broadsides, a stormsurge, 3 commanders, 2 ethereal, 30 fire warriors, 10 pathfinders, Darkstrider, a Fireblade, 2 ghostkeel, and a ton of drones plus codex and databcards. Let’s see if I can make this work
With those model's you should be able to make a 90% competitive list. As you play more games you'll find the playstyle and hence units that work for you.
Now onwards to victory for the greater good with you.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Ok so from my LGS, I got 3 Riptide’s, 3 broadsides, a stormsurge, 3 commanders, 2 ethereal, 30 fire warriors, 10 pathfinders, Darkstrider, a Fireblade, 2 ghostkeel, and a ton of drones plus codex and databcards. Let’s see if I can make this work
That looks like a pretty competitive setup right there, although obviously it won't all fit into one 2000-point list. Just get yourself a couple of units of Stealth suits and your journey to competitive Tau will be complete!
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Ok so from my LGS, I got 3 Riptide’s, 3 broadsides, a stormsurge, 3 commanders, 2 ethereal, 30 fire warriors, 10 pathfinders, Darkstrider, a Fireblade, 2 ghostkeel, and a ton of drones plus codex and databcards. Let’s see if I can make this work
That looks like a pretty competitive setup right there, although obviously it won't all fit into one 2000-point list. Just get yourself a couple of units of Stealth suits and your journey to competitive Tau will be complete!
They had a total of 5 boxes, but I ran out of the $$ I got for my eldar haha. They are the next purchase though! That and the hpgrade third party sprue to make the stormsurge have arms
Pain4Pleasure wrote: What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
Pain4Pleasure wrote: What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
3 Commanders? Huh.
That aside, Broadsides are quite excellent.
They had 3 so I got em, I wanted 6 but 3 is good. I’m excited to join the greater good with you guys
Pain4Pleasure wrote: What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
3 Commanders? Huh.
That aside, Broadsides are quite excellent.
They had 3 so I got em, I wanted 6 but 3 is good. I’m excited to join the greater good with you guys
If I'm not mistaken, you must have three detachments in order to use 3 Commanders in Matched Play.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
3 Commanders? Huh.
That aside, Broadsides are quite excellent.
They had 3 so I got em, I wanted 6 but 3 is good. I’m excited to join the greater good with you guys
If I'm not mistaken, you must have three detachments in order to use 3 Commanders in Matched Play.
It's true, but OTOH, if you don't magnetize, having more Commanders means you can swap around suits as you please. Don't forget there are XV8 Commanders, Enforcers and Coldstars, so there's a lot of potential variety.
And before you ask, XV8 commanders have less wounds, cost less but can get the 2+ armor save Iridium Armor. Generally ignored because Commanders are characters and hard to shoot at, but you can get 3 XV8 suits in Start Collecting for cheaper than 2 Enforcer suits.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: What’s better, 3 battalions with min squads of fire warriors, shielded 21, triple tide and triple commander w/ Fireblade and Darkstrider support, or 2 battalions and (insert other detachment here) with still 3 commanders but adding in potentially broadsides, triptide maybe ghostkee or two etc?
3 Commanders? Huh.
That aside, Broadsides are quite excellent.
They had 3 so I got em, I wanted 6 but 3 is good. I’m excited to join the greater good with you guys
If I'm not mistaken, you must have three detachments in order to use 3 Commanders in Matched Play.
Most competitive lists I’ve followed use 3 detachments.
I could of sworn I read somewhere tau could fall back a few inches somehow after being declared as a charge target. Am I wrong? Can’t seem to find it if it exists but could of sworn I had read it
I could of sworn I read somewhere tau could fall back a few inches somehow after being declared as a charge target. Am I wrong? Can’t seem to find it if it exists but could of sworn I had read it
Pathfinders can take Grav-Inhibitor Drones, which cause enemy units within 12" of the Drone to subtract D3 from their charge roll. It's tricky to pull off, because your Pathfinder unit's drone contingent is a separate unit that can be fairly easily shot off the board turn 1.
I could of sworn I read somewhere tau could fall back a few inches somehow after being declared as a charge target. Am I wrong? Can’t seem to find it if it exists but could of sworn I had read it
Arguably the VMT signature system lets a Commander move immediately after firing overwatch. You would want to check that with your TO before building it into your list as a thing to rely on. Also seems cheesy as anything so likely to be fixed in a future FAQ.
Other than that I think you may be referring to old 7th edition rules which no longer exist.
Gonna start building today. I had swore I purchased 3 commanders but I didn’t I only had 2, but I have 6 crisis suits so as I only ever plan to run a unit biggest at 5 I think I’m gonna make an xv8 commander. What’s the best loadout for him, and as far as as the two other commanders, enforcer or Coldstar?
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Gonna start building today. I had swore I purchased 3 commanders but I didn’t I only had 2, but I have 6 crisis suits so as I only ever plan to run a unit biggest at 5 I think I’m gonna make an xv8 commander. What’s the best loadout for him, and as far as as the two other commanders, enforcer or Coldstar?
I'd make the XV8 your 'buffmander'. Sit him in the back with your Broadsides and have him drop Command and Control Node stratagems. He's fairly safe from enemy fire but because of CNC he won't be shooting much (when using this strat, he can't shoot). Give him Drone Controller and Counterfire Defense Systems (re-roll overwatch, if he's Tau Sept that's 5-6 with rerolls and the Greater Good lets him shoot overwatch if nearby units get charged) and a couple Burst Cannons for cheap volume of Overwatch fire. Or you could give him 2 CIB, since you'll probably make the other 2 commanders Coldstars that can't take CIB. A bit more expensive but if/when the Broadsides die he's got a significant weapon to use.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Gonna start building today. I had swore I purchased 3 commanders but I didn’t I only had 2, but I have 6 crisis suits so as I only ever plan to run a unit biggest at 5 I think I’m gonna make an xv8 commander. What’s the best loadout for him, and as far as as the two other commanders, enforcer or Coldstar?
I'd make the XV8 your 'buffmander'. Sit him in the back with your Broadsides and have him drop Command and Control Node stratagems. He's fairly safe from enemy fire but because of CNC he won't be shooting much (when using this strat, he can't shoot). Give him Drone Controller and Counterfire Defense Systems (re-roll overwatch, if he's Tau Sept that's 5-6 with rerolls and the Greater Good lets him shoot overwatch if nearby units get charged) and a couple Burst Cannons for cheap volume of Overwatch fire. Or you could give him 2 CIB, since you'll probably make the other 2 commanders Coldstars that can't take CIB. A bit more expensive but if/when the Broadsides die he's got a significant weapon to use.
Thank you very much! You guys have all been helping a ton with every question I’ve asked
How do you get 4 fusion on the coldstar? The first Tau FAQ took it down to only being able to swap the stock weapons for 2. Are you still using the index entry?
How do you get 4 fusion on the coldstar? The first Tau FAQ took it down to only being able to swap the stock weapons for 2. Are you still using the index entry?
Think you misinterpreted that FAQ. It's never not been allowed to take 4 selections in 8th edition.
How do you get 4 fusion on the coldstar? The first Tau FAQ took it down to only being able to swap the stock weapons for 2. Are you still using the index entry?
Think you misinterpreted that FAQ. It's never not been allowed to take 4 selections in 8th edition.
Actually you could take 20 of anything you wanted in 8th. Only Matched Play restricts it and that restriction came after about a year of tournaments.
How do you get 4 fusion on the coldstar? The first Tau FAQ took it down to only being able to swap the stock weapons for 2. Are you still using the index entry?
Think you misinterpreted that FAQ. It's never not been allowed to take 4 selections in 8th edition.
Not a bad idea. I’m not normally good at magnetization but I do feel it wouldn’t be a bad idea to try my hand especially since it’s a bigger model.
It was changed in the codex to allow it to take anything on its hard points.... except the CIB because triple ion blaster with ats on a coldstar would just be too damn much
macexor wrote: Can Tau fire SMS during overwatch at an enemy they cannot see? Can other units FTGG with their SMS as well?
Personally I see no reason why not, but I just want to make sure.
are the units within 6" of the unit being charged? Sure, why not?
Another thing to remember is with flamers. Although the assaulting unit may be out of range of the flamer, it is assumed that they will be assaulting into range, so if they are at 12 inches and only assault 2", you can still wound them with flamers.
How do you get 4 fusion on the coldstar? The first Tau FAQ took it down to only being able to swap the stock weapons for 2. Are you still using the index entry?
Think you misinterpreted that FAQ. It's never not been allowed to take 4 selections in 8th edition.
Actually you could take 20 of anything you wanted in 8th. Only Matched Play restricts it and that restriction came after about a year of tournaments.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the number of hardpoints on the coldstar, not the number of coldstars that you could take in your force.
Which can, by the way, take 4 fusion blasters
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the number of hardpoints on the coldstar, not the number of coldstars that you could take in your force.
Which can, by the way, take 4 fusion blasters
Another thing to remember is with flamers. Although the assaulting unit may be out of range of the flamer, it is assumed that they will be assaulting into range, so if they are at 12 inches and only assault 2", you can still wound them with flamers.
No, overwatch is still considered a normal shooting attack following the usual rules including LoS and range. As such if someone wants to make a 10" charge flamers can't be fired at them. WoF is an older edition rule and is no longer there.
Another thing to remember is with flamers. Although the assaulting unit may be out of range of the flamer, it is assumed that they will be assaulting into range, so if they are at 12 inches and only assault 2", you can still wound them with flamers.
No, overwatch is still considered a normal shooting attack following the usual rules including LoS and range. As such if someone wants to make a 10" charge flamers can't be fired at them. WoF is an older edition rule and is no longer there.
Cheers
Andrew
Maybe he mixed up 7th and 8th ed?
Either way no overwatch outside range or out of sight. Don't park too close to ruin walls...
Another thing to remember is with flamers. Although the assaulting unit may be out of range of the flamer, it is assumed that they will be assaulting into range, so if they are at 12 inches and only assault 2", you can still wound them with flamers.
No, overwatch is still considered a normal shooting attack following the usual rules including LoS and range. As such if someone wants to make a 10" charge flamers can't be fired at them. WoF is an older edition rule and is no longer there.
Cheers
Andrew
well anyone interested in swapping their AFPs for my CIBs?
Thoughts on crisis suits? I see plasma is good, I see it’s bad. I see flamers are good, I see their bad. The 3 obvious no goes (for this edition) are CIB, fusions blasters, and missiles from what I’ve read. The burst cannon just doesn’t seem worth it on crisis suits, a commander in XV8 sure but not crisis suits. We have enough anti infantry.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Thoughts on crisis suits? I see plasma is good, I see it’s bad. I see flamers are good, I see their bad. The 3 obvious no goes (for this edition) are CIB, fusions blasters, and missiles from what I’ve read. The burst cannon just doesn’t seem worth it on crisis suits, a commander in XV8 sure but not crisis suits. We have enough anti infantry.
Crisis suits are still in a meh place ruleswise, ok for casual play 40k but not really worth while for competitive.
You can make them do good work with farsight and dropzone clear strategum, C&C node stacking but it gets points heavy, and takes a big hit if vect/generations removes your buff.
IMHO riptides and broadsides bring the same things to the table with less downsides.
Got it. I’ll either learn to magnetize for future editions or go ahead and build them with flamers just for those games I’m playing against orks or tyranid sand need the extra mass damage weapons. I wasn’t normally going to pick any up but my lgs didn’t have just fire warriors, so I had to purchase the start collecting which is why I got them.
So killteam elites. Thoughts? My killteam from here forward is a shas’vre with twin cib and ats, missile pod sniper with two mo and ats and demolition triple burst cannon..... and six drones
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Got it. I’ll either learn to magnetize for future editions or go ahead and build them with flamers just for those games I’m playing against orks or tyranid sand need the extra mass damage weapons. I wasn’t normally going to pick any up but my lgs didn’t have just fire warriors, so I had to purchase the start collecting which is why I got them.
Magnetizing the crisis suits is pretty simple. I just bought some small magnets online, and got a drill bit that was the same diameter as the magnets. I used my hand to drill little holes in the arms and shoulders to match the depths of the magnets, and then I did the same thing on each of the weapon options. Then use super glue to stick in the magnets. The only thing you need to be careful of is the magnets' polarity. Make sure you glue them in so that any weapon can fit on any hard point.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Got it. I’ll either learn to magnetize for future editions or go ahead and build them with flamers just for those games I’m playing against orks or tyranid sand need the extra mass damage weapons. I wasn’t normally going to pick any up but my lgs didn’t have just fire warriors, so I had to purchase the start collecting which is why I got them.
Magnetizing the crisis suits is pretty simple. I just bought some small magnets online, and got a drill bit that was the same diameter as the magnets. I used my hand to drill little holes in the arms and shoulders to match the depths of the magnets, and then I did the same thing on each of the weapon options. Then use super glue to stick in the magnets. The only thing you need to be careful of is the magnets' polarity. Make sure you glue them in so that any weapon can fit on any hard point.
for magnet polarity, how i kept it organized was i marked 1 side with a marker, and worked by way down the magnetized stack until they were all marked. as long as the marks went the same direction, they'd connect, and no 2nd guessing
This is the kind of feedback I want before I build the models
Depends. I prefer a coldstar with trip fusion and an AFP replaced with the supernova relic. Yes its a d6 shots but as each is a primaris killer.
Cheers
Andrew
This is why you magnetize.
Very true. Looks like I’ll be getting a hand drill and magnets. So being new I’ve been delving a lot into the codex. Knowing Shadowsun is a must take for tau sept I got her online on eBay (thankfully for $46, most people are trying to get $100+ out of her) so that should help me. What’s everyone’s take on fire warrior numbers? I see 15 to 30 to sometimes 50 in lists. Personally, I feel 30 max is the sweet number. Maybe 35 if you wanna run one squad of 10 in a 2 battalion army. Just curious what everyone thinks?
