Is his head smaller with the helmet on? Did the squats perfect timey wimey wibbley wobbley tech during the Dark Age of Technology to make headgear that is bigger on the inside? :0
Maybe that's not a helmet but instead a custom MoI head? Like when they get high-enough rank they give themselves a more elaborate faceplate then discount among us.
I remember a while back some were saying that having the Votann head logo GW are using to represent the Kin placed on the models somewhere wouldn't fit them because they're not a unified civilization / army and such, so it just wouldn't make sense to have that symbol on them.
...well now we have a large version of that quite clearly visible the shoulderpad of the Kahl as decoration.
Love this guy- the helmet looks especially awesome. It being a multipart kit is brilliant and there's more options than what we have seen. I was really hoping for something like the Autarch kit/cannoness kit so this looks promising.
The art is really great as well-looks like there's an army standard bearer coming too. Wondering if that art is the codex cover.
To be fair, unlike the transhuman super soldier the space dwarf actually has a reason for a voluminous belly.
Oh yeah, totally agree, but putting that illustration next to the gravis captain, the similarity is just hilarious. Same pose, same type of gorget, same belly, same gauntlet, hell even his coat match the captain cape.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I keep seeing so many people saying "The Leagues are just short space Marines" but I really don't see it myself. They both have slightly curved armour, but outside of that they aren't really similar at all.
silverstu wrote: Love this guy- the helmet looks especially awesome. It being a multipart kit is brilliant and there's more options than what we have seen. I was really hoping for something like the Autarch kit/cannoness kit so this looks promising.
It's says long about current GW that getting proper multipart kit for HQ is considered brilliant and not the bare minimum anymore.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I remember a while back some were saying that having the Votann head logo GW are using to represent the Kin placed on the models somewhere wouldn't fit them because they're not a unified civilization / army and such, so it just wouldn't make sense to have that symbol on them.
...well now we have a large version of that quite clearly visible the shoulderpad of the Kahl as decoration.
Maybe the Kin don't get to wear ancestral decorations unless they have ancestors - most clones wouldn't have anything, and maybe the commanders are those who've actually descended from a hero? To steal a Dark Eldar term, the commanders are the Trueborn, or at least second generation clones?
Mentlegen324 wrote: I remember a while back some were saying that having the Votann head logo GW are using to represent the Kin placed on the models somewhere wouldn't fit them because they're not a unified civilization / army and such, so it just wouldn't make sense to have that symbol on them.
...well now we have a large version of that quite clearly visible the shoulderpad of the Kahl as decoration.
Maybe the Kin don't get to wear ancestral decorations unless they have ancestors - most clones wouldn't have anything, and maybe the commanders are those who've actually descended from a hero? To steal a Dark Eldar term, the commanders are the Trueborn, or at least second generation clones?
It's been implied that the whole "The Ancestors are always watching" idea is something throughout Kin society, so I don't think that's the case.
The point is though that some said the faction logo wouldn't make sense on the models, but there it is. So it must have some relevance to the Leagues as a society overall.
Given my personal dislike of too many unhelmeted heads on the battlefield, maybe more Kin heads can be painted like that Kahl's helmet, to represent helmets that are a custom facial cast of the wearer?
Also, it seems they are really sporting a lot of animal motifs. The art has two standards with boar and ram respectively. Wonder if they'll get around to explaining why. I hope it's a little something more than "those animals are stubborn and hard headed, just like us".
Mentlegen324 wrote: I keep seeing so many people saying "The Leagues are just short space Marines" but I really don't see it myself. They both have slightly curved armour, but outside of that they aren't really similar at all.
The art at the bottom of this latest article has two troopers in the foreground, leaning forward so their backpacks look very similar to Astartes-style. Besides that one instance, yeah, I don't see it.
I agree, they wear armour and have stuff on their backs, but so do eldar troopers, doesn’t mean they look like marines. Clearly different vibe, their armour is more similar to the ad mech robots.
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warboss wrote: Is his head smaller with the helmet on? Did the squats perfect timey wimey wibbley wobbley tech during the Dark Age of Technology to make headgear that is bigger on the inside? :0
Even if it makes no sense that “helmet” looks cool to me. And I will likely be using it and saying it’s a helmet. U less there are other heads in the kit that I prefer.
I really don't think that's a helmet after all. The armour design is very similar to the Hearthkin which suggests it's meant to use the big bubble astronaut helmets.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really don't think that's a helmet after all. The armour design is very similar to the Hearthkin which suggests it's meant to use the big bubble astronaut helmets.
Maybe it's a cyberhead? Maybe he is "spam in a can" with a little bit of brain tissue inside an inorganic cybernetic head replacement?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also note this art. Right hand side in the foreground, one with a partial helmet, which I don’t think we’ve see before?
And we’re promised Heavy Weapons wielder next week.
That's the "standard" helmet of the kins, the one that really amp up the "starcraft 2" ripoff look.
I'm starting to wonder if GW didn't realized how blatant it was and that's why they have inverted the usual ration of 1/10 unhlemet trooper in their showcase.
Comparing that artwork to the actual mini, once again for like the third time, it seems that the problem isn't really the LoV design, it's the garbage job the sculpted did to transpose thos designs in plastic.
Also, that red colorsheme looks way better than the Sons of Horus color sheme they have used so far ngl.
and we've still got whoever that raven head from the rumour engine is acting as a badge of rank for (unless it's an alternate for todays bloke, and since they show the alternate head/weapon i think they'd show an alternate animal standard too if it was there)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also note this art. Right hand side in the foreground, one with a partial helmet, which I don’t think we’ve see before?
And we’re promised Heavy Weapons wielder next week.
That's the "standard" helmet of the kins, the one that really amp up the "starcraft 2" ripoff look.
I'm starting to wonder if GW didn't realized how blatant it was and that's why they have inverted the usual ration of 1/10 unhlemet trooper in their showcase.
It's a full helmet with a visor though reminiscent of a Space Suit, and the Leagues have an armoured Astronaut aesthetic.
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's a full helmet with a visor though reminiscent of a Space Suit, and the Leagues have an armoured Astronaut aesthetic.
Sure, if you take that detail alone that's a decent explanation. But if you put it in context with the rest of the design the similarities are too numerous to just chuck it too random coincidence.
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's a full helmet with a visor though reminiscent of a Space Suit, and the Leagues have an armoured Astronaut aesthetic.
Sure, if you take that detail alone that's a decent explanation. But if you put it in context with the rest of the design the similarities are too numerous to just chuck it too random coincidence.
What other similarities do you mean? There's the curved style but I don't think that's really something unique or distinct enough to indicate it's intentional, especially when that seems to just be have GW Dwarfs are now with the Kharadron Overlords also having a curved style of armour.
Just for comparison purposes. You can make your own conclusion, if course, but to me there is an awful lot of things that sound like ducks going on here.
Flinty wrote: Just for comparison purposes. You can make your own conclusion, if course, but to me there is an awful lot of things that sound like ducks going on here.
So GW have ripped off a space marine rip-off.?? So really they are ripping them selves off?? Either way, not bothered, never okayed StarCraft and love the new squats. A lot.
Possibly said it before, but I hate these orange power weapons. I don't know if its the nature of the zoomed in shots, but it doesn't look right at all. Rather than looking like this bits powered up, it just looks like your sword/axe is made of orange plastic. Its the sort of thing they did in the 1990s, but there are better techniques now.
On the Starcraft Front, I don't really see it. Find closer ties to Gravis Armour. It might be that I'm used to marines being half a cm by half a cm big - occasionally covered by a green lightning bolt.
What other similarities do you mean? There's the curved style but I don't think that's really something unique or distinct enough to indicate it's intentional, especially when that seems to just be have GW Dwarfs are now with the Kharadron Overlords also having a curved style of armour.
I'm surprised you are asking that Mentlegen, you were there the first time the topic was brought up and discussed at length.
The exo-armour in particular bears way, WAY too many similarity with SC2 designs to be ignored. They look like a shorter version of a mix between the marauder and the marine, the Hearthkyn themselves look very, VERY SC2 marinish thanks to their guns that look pretty close to the oversized one SC2 marines have (and that's before even mentioning the helmet ofc.)
One of the most obvious to me is that little one that almost nobody ever talk about
That spine on the left, which is a very well known part of the SC2 marine design, thanks to the SC2 intro where you can clearly see it in the middle of that gearing up sequence (that was ripped off by GW later on when they ripped off the fanmade "Raptor" video that was itself literally a retake of the SC2 intro but in 40k).
I honestly don't want to get back into beating that dead horse, especially since you were here beating it with us at the time, it will just make the usual dense members here like Andy do their little baity song and dance again.
Possibly said it before, but I hate these orange power weapons. I don't know if its the nature of the zoomed in shots, but it doesn't look right at all. Rather than looking like this bits powered up, it just looks like your sword/axe is made of orange plastic. Its the sort of thing they did in the 1990s, but there are better techniques now.
Yeah, agree there. I see what they were going for, that "white hot iron" thing, but it just doesn't work, probably because they have done it way too cleanly and lazily.
If they had put a little more effort in there and follow something like what the Man Duncan did here (for the first style), thos weapons would look actually pretty cool and unique.
I think the biggest mistake they made was to edge highlight the thing in white rather than black. It totally kill the effect.
What other similarities do you mean? There's the curved style but I don't think that's really something unique or distinct enough to indicate it's intentional, especially when that seems to just be have GW Dwarfs are now with the Kharadron Overlords also having a curved style of armour.
I'm surprised you are asking that Mentlegen, you were there the first time the topic was brought up and discussed at length.
The exo-armour in particular bears way, WAY too many similarity with SC2 designs to be ignored. They look like a shorter version of a mix between the marauder and the marine, the Hearthkyn themselves look very, VERY SC2 marinish thanks to their guns that look pretty close to the oversized one SC2 marines have (and that's before even mentioning the helmet ofc.)
One of the most obvious to me is that little one that almost nobody ever talk about
That spine on the left, which is a very well known part of the SC2 marine design, thanks to the SC2 intro where you can clearly see it in the middle of that gearing up sequence (that was ripped off by GW later on when they ripped off the fanmade "Raptor" video that was itself literally a retake of the SC2 intro but in 40k).
I honestly don't want to get back into beating that dead horse, especially since you were here beating it with us at the time, it will just make the usual dense members here like Andy do their little baity song and dance again.
It was the Hearthkyn in particular that i was referring to as that was what was mentioned, I can certainly see the resemblance between the Einhyr and the Starcraft Marauder. There are similarities between the Hearthkyn and Marine with the helmet and generally curved bulky design being quite significant elements of both, but to me that partly feels like it's more so down to the armoured astronaut vibe they're going for than anything else. Not sure how they could really do that idea without there naturally being similarities. Still, you're right in that in context with the Einhyr maybe it's not just a coincidence.
Did anyone else notice that in the artwork the Kahl is armed with an Ax AND a power fist? Is this going to lead to another one of those Elder Autarch situations where you can't legally build the guy in the artwork?
cuda1179 wrote: Did anyone else notice that in the artwork the Kahl is armed with an Ax AND a power fist? Is this going to lead to another one of those Elder Autarch situations where you can't legally build the guy in the artwork?
I was thinking the same exact thing. That said I doubt many people will complain that you can't have that pretty bad dual mele weapon build.
cuda1179 wrote: Did anyone else notice that in the artwork the Kahl is armed with an Ax AND a power fist? Is this going to lead to another one of those Elder Autarch situations where you can't legally build the guy in the artwork?
I was thinking the same exact thing. That said I doubt many people will complain that you can't have that pretty bad dual mele weapon build.
I think that will depend on what the weapons stats look like and if there is a pistol option. If he has a pistol the loss of the storm bolter is mitigated. For all we know a plasma ax may give bonus attacks like a chainsword. I could see a Kaul with that setup if that were the case.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: and we've still got whoever that raven head from the rumour engine is acting as a badge of rank for (unless it's an alternate for todays bloke, and since they show the alternate head/weapon i think they'd show an alternate animal standard too if it was there)
The raven icon will be on the psyker Squat. Why? In one word, Njal. If you're a bearded, nordic looking psyker, per GW you need a raven. Njal has a raven, and so will the psyker Squat.
The Kahl is the closest we’ve seen so far to Kharadron In Spaaaaaaaaaace.
I’m wondering and indeed suspecting (albeit with only opinion) if that’s a deliberate choice, and the design cues of said Kharadron lead to GW boxing themself into something of a design corner when it came to the Squats?
Probably various existing dwarfish design elements have gone into them. The standards seen in the artwork in the latest WC article look similar to the Chaos Dwarf infernal guard standard bearers.
It won't happen, but if they manage to give the Leagues of Votann a version of Shar'tor the Executioner, I shall be overjoyed.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Wonder if there are other un shown equipment options, like the Canoness.
This is a multipart kit with options for heads, weapons, and equipment, so you can tailor your commander to a particular battlefield role. We can’t say exactly what all the weapons do yet – but a volkite-and-power-fist combo can’t be bad.
This is what Warcom says
Of course, just because Warcom said it, doesn't mean it's true.
Doesn’t really confirm it either way. Volkite, Storm Bolter, Powerfist and Plasma Axe are all options we know. But right now we don’t know if they’re set pairings, or the only bits of kit this duder comes with.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Doesn’t really confirm it either way. Volkite, Storm Bolter, Powerfist and Plasma Axe are all options we know. But right now we don’t know if they’re set pairings, or the only bits of kit this duder comes with.
I’d expect the bolt pistol and or plasma pistol equivalents and maybe another head. they like 3 heads, maybe a female head? As for other CC weapons? Maybe a sword?
The Kahl is the closest we’ve seen so far to Kharadron In Spaaaaaaaaaace.
I’m wondering and indeed suspecting (albeit with only opinion) if that’s a deliberate choice, and the design cues of said Kharadron lead to GW boxing themself into something of a design corner when it came to the Squats?
Edited to use the right bloody word.
They do seem to have gone for a broadly similar style for both the Kharadron and Leagues, even just the core idea of them both being Dwarfs wearing armoured pressure suits including Air-tank like backpacks.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Doesn’t really confirm it either way. Volkite, Storm Bolter, Powerfist and Plasma Axe are all options we know. But right now we don’t know if they’re set pairings, or the only bits of kit this duder comes with.
looking at the Autarch kit its probably reasonable to expect another set of weapons - a hammer being one of them is a good bet; also a female head seems likely given the female options in other kits. I wonder if there will be alt chest piece- not necessarily female as they don't seem to need it but maybe a different armour type. Also think there might be the back banner thing featured in the art. If they don't go for another chest piece or a back pack variation there might be sprue space for other things. The Sisters Cannoness has 4 heads and 8 weapon options for example..but thats 2 sprues.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Doesn’t really confirm it either way. Volkite, Storm Bolter, Powerfist and Plasma Axe are all options we know. But right now we don’t know if they’re set pairings, or the only bits of kit this duder comes with.
looking at the Autarch kit its probably reasonable to expect another set of weapons - a hammer being one of them is a good bet; also a female head seems likely given the female options in other kits. I wonder if there will be alt chest piece- not necessarily female as they don't seem to need it but maybe a different armour type. Also think there might be the back banner thing featured in the art. If they don't go for another chest piece or a back pack variation there might be sprue space for other things. The Sisters Cannoness has 4 heads and 8 weapon options for example..but thats 2 sprues.
Correction; the Cannoness had 4 heads, 9 weapon options, 2 backpack options and 2 front chest options.
Splog wrote: Probably various existing dwarfish design elements have gone into them. The standards seen in the artwork in the latest WC article look similar to the Chaos Dwarf infernal guard standard bearers.
It won't happen, but if they manage to give the Leagues of Votann a version of Shar'tor the Executioner, I shall be overjoyed.
Just to say massive +1 to this. If we get good models with bull and boar standards this whole range may suddenly go in a decidedly new direction. (So...direction 5 at this point?)
Tbh an optional range of Chaos Dwarf heads/beards would also contribute a lot. But its hard to fit in a space suit.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The 2 standard bearers in the art are interesting, I'd hope those are part of some sort of command squad rather than separate characters.
50/50 chance on that one.
Looking at the recent space marine banner and judging by the fact that the LoV line probably won't be super extensive, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just a separate character.
I really hope these get a kill team in PDF form and not as a white dwarf thing, like how they just dropped that intercessor KT as a free download. I really like how these are turning out, especially with that alternate red armor color scheme.
So why this dude has a storm bolter? Did the Votann copy it? Because the STC weapon is actually twin bolter, storm bolters were invented by Imperium as its better, more compact variant after the Heresy. Yes, I know GW forgot Imperium was supposed to develop a lot of stuff during the 10.000 years it existed and stupidly started to give gak to CSM they have no business owning (or even worse, having it as standard gear in HH) but it's still puzzling. Why not give the Votann leader some actual Dark Age relic weapon instead of signature gun of other faction? Or did they retcon the origins and now it's Votann who invented it and sold Imperium the design?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The inference is still mostly community based, but put together from GW’s releases.
For instance, it’s confirmed Ion Technology was sold/traded/gifted to the Tau by the Votann, and the Imperium isn’t likely to be happy if it ever found out.
And we’ve seen one head sculpt with head bumps similar to the Demiurg concept sketch.
It remains inference for now, but it’s pretty well supported. What we may never find out is whether Demiurg are an offshoot like the Necromundan Squats, and so a sub-society of Votann from a while ago, or a disguise adopted for opportunistic trading etc.
'Inference'?
In Gothic, Demiurg belong to SrrykTok brotherhood. Votann lore has Seran-Tok Mercantile Leagues as one of main factions. That's not inference, that's as blatant as it gets...
Mentlegen324 wrote: The 2 standard bearers in the art are interesting, I'd hope those are part of some sort of command squad rather than separate characters.
Yeah a command squad/bodyguard type squad would be excellent. Hearthguard came without exo-armour in the past - might do that again. I wonder if there will be Kahl model in Exo amour, would be a nice option. Hoping any character sets are multipart kits, its not like you can simply buy older models if you want some variation and I'd say a Grimnyr would be a good candidate for a multipart kit.
How many kits and clampacks did Sisters get in their re-release? Was it about 11 kits and 4 characters? So far we can expect 7 kits- Hearthkyn, Hearthguard, Bikes, Beserks, Sagitaur, Thunderers [the heavy weapon toting unit]and the Land Fortress.
silverstu wrote: How many kits and clampacks did Sisters get in their re-release? Was it about 11 kits and 4 characters? So far we can expect 7 kits- Hearthkyn, Hearthguard, Bikes, Beserks, Sagitaur, Thunderers [the heavy weapon toting unit]and the Land Fortress.
For their first codex Sisters got nine non-character units, five character units, plus however you want to classify St. Kathy, plus a terrain piece, plus the launch box monopose models. And if you want to count it, a lone Sister Superior preceding the main release by half a year.
silverstu wrote: How many kits and clampacks did Sisters get in their re-release? Was it about 11 kits and 4 characters? So far we can expect 7 kits- Hearthkyn, Hearthguard, Bikes, Beserks, Sagitaur, Thunderers [the heavy weapon toting unit]and the Land Fortress.
For their first codex Sisters got nine non-character units, five character units, plus however you want to classify St. Kathy, plus a terrain piece, plus the launch box monopose models. And if you want to count it, a lone Sister Superior preceding the main release by half a year.
Cheers! StKathy is probably the equivalent of the Land Fortress -centre piece kit maybe? 9 non character and 5 characters would be a great release- one of those is likely going to be a named character. Obviously there won't be a unique launch box by the look of things, we might get a lone model like the Sister as a Christmas/holiday limited model? The sisters did pretty well with those- all the new stuff has given them a really nice, broad range. I did think the Leagues would just get an AoS type release with 6 kits and 4/5 characters but its looking a little bigger.
Yeah, Sisters got a pretty nice initial release. It may also be a decent indication of how many kits GW considers the upper limit for a new army launch. Sisters were (and still are) missing Crusaders, Death Cult Assassins, Preachers and Missionaries that got to keep their old 2nd and 3rd ed models. They should be in the codex and have unit entries, but aren't necessary for a pure Sisters army. I reckon they were GW's go to subgroup to be left out in the rain. Squats don't have any old models, so I reckon that size of model range will give them a functional, if somewhat limited army list until they get a second release down the line. Also, Sisters get a lot of mileage out of the core Sisters kit. I may have missed or forgotten about it, but I can't think of any article showing a dual purpose Squat unit.
Geifer wrote: For their first codex Sisters got nine non-character units, five character units, plus however you want to classify St. Kathy, plus a terrain piece, plus the launch box monopose models. And if you want to count it, a lone Sister Superior preceding the main release by half a year.
Wasn't it in three waves, though? Initial monopose preview, then wave 1 after six months, and wave 2 a year later? Comparing whole of that to initial Votann release is kinda unfair, dwarfs might get wave 2 down the line but sisters definitely didn't get all of that at once...
Geifer wrote: For their first codex Sisters got nine non-character units, five character units, plus however you want to classify St. Kathy, plus a terrain piece, plus the launch box monopose models. And if you want to count it, a lone Sister Superior preceding the main release by half a year.
Wasn't it in three waves, though? Initial monopose preview, then wave 1 after six months, and wave 2 a year later? Comparing whole of that to initial Votann release is kinda unfair, dwarfs might get wave 2 down the line but sisters definitely didn't get all of that at once...
The Sisters releases were:
1. the preview Sister Superior in summer 2019
2. the launch box with monopose models in November 2019
3. the 8th ed codex and first half of full kits in January 2020
4. the second half in March 2020
5. the release accompanying the 9th ed codex around June 2021
I did not include number 5 in my previous posts because yes, it would be nonsensical to compare two codex releases worth of models with the single one Squats are about to get.
Another note on this, both 1. and 2. are only alternate sculpts for models and units, so Squats won't be worse off in terms of unit variety for missing out on a monopose launch box and a squad leader without a squad. I doubt we'd see another such monopose launch box anyway. GW seems perfectly happy to just put the full kits in these after they got in the habit of army launch boxes with Sisters.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The 2 standard bearers in the art are interesting, I'd hope those are part of some sort of command squad rather than separate characters.
Its an Autarch Bolter - its in the weapon art they released earlier.
It doesn't quite seem like the Autoch bolter to me, it has similarities for sure, but there also seem to be quite a few differences. The decoration appears to be slightly different and the Autoch doesn't have a bit sticking out above the barrels like that weapon does.
Andykp wrote: This weeks loremaster on warhammer+ is on the leagues of votann. It’ll be interesting to see what’s explained.
has to be a round up of the old lore and the stuff thats been teased. I'd be annoyed if they hid new lore behind a paywall..[not surprised but annoyed ]. Thought Loremasters really just gathered lore that was already out there and discussed it.
Andykp wrote: This weeks loremaster on warhammer+ is on the leagues of votann. It’ll be interesting to see what’s explained.
has to be a round up of the old lore and the stuff thats been teased. I'd be annoyed if they hid new lore behind a paywall..[not surprised but annoyed ]. Thought Loremasters really just gathered lore that was already out there and discussed it.
Previous ones did, bit of an odd doing it in such an new faction. Would be a bit short if it’s just based on the lore released already.
Andykp wrote: This weeks loremaster on warhammer+ is on the leagues of votann. It’ll be interesting to see what’s explained.
has to be a round up of the old lore and the stuff thats been teased. I'd be annoyed if they hid new lore behind a paywall..[not surprised but annoyed ]. Thought Loremasters really just gathered lore that was already out there and discussed it.
Surely we haven't had enough lore yet for them to make a 20 - 30 min episode on it?
Andykp wrote: This weeks loremaster on warhammer+ is on the leagues of votann. It’ll be interesting to see what’s explained.
has to be a round up of the old lore and the stuff thats been teased. I'd be annoyed if they hid new lore behind a paywall..[not surprised but annoyed ]. Thought Loremasters really just gathered lore that was already out there and discussed it.
Surely we haven't had enough lore yet for them to make a 20 - 30 min episode on it?
Yes thats what concerns me .. but maybe the release is imminent after the demons - its all stuff that will be in the book. Thinking if they do an army box it might get previewed and come out after Nova...
Andykp wrote: This weeks loremaster on warhammer+ is on the leagues of votann. It’ll be interesting to see what’s explained.
has to be a round up of the old lore and the stuff thats been teased. I'd be annoyed if they hid new lore behind a paywall..[not surprised but annoyed ]. Thought Loremasters really just gathered lore that was already out there and discussed it.
Loremasters also did an episode on the Ash Waste Nomads before the Ash Wastes book was released. So, I’m expecting, we might learn new stuff that will also be accessible through their codex.
I do find Loremasters intriguing, yet I find it has missed the mark because it doesn’t tell us anything exclusive. When they were talking about the T’au Castes, it was dissapointing that they mostly mentioned Fire Caste instead of giving us a better close up of the others. I think the most fun reveal in those episodes, was that the Albion Crisis is indeed fully considered canon and still part of the main Warhammer Fantasy Timeline.
I quite like them. I wouldn't say there's anything bad about the modeloutside of perhaps being a bit lacking in terms of visible armour.
Really the main thing i'm not too sure on is this being the Leagues engineers, having them all grouped into heavy-weapon squads seems like a bit of a strange choice.
SamusDrake wrote: Some parts of the frames remind me of Ripley's powerloader from ALIENS. Yeah, pretty cool.
The reason I say I think I like them is the “hands” look add to me. I see what they were doing but the angles look strange. Don’t think it will be enough to put me off. I like that they haven’t just done a devastator style normal squad but with heavy weapons, they will stand out. I think a whole army of the the leagues will look quite good, plenty of diversity but a coherent theme.
I like them too, despite having a very strong Fallout vib, but that industrial vib works well here.
Its one of thos rare case where GW managed to pull the "baby carrier walker" convincingly.
Squats in mini-dreadknights. That was a design choice. Yet so small they aren't articulated enough to point the guns at anything that isn't standing beside them to the left.
Excellent.
At least they armored the left shoulder. The only vulnerable spot on a dwarf.
(HN) wrote: I like them too, despite having a very strong Fallout vib, but that industrial vib works well here.
Its one of thos rare case where GW managed to pull the "baby carrier walker" convincingly.
I see a more aliens vibe myself, even a smart gun look.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I like them. Keen on the adapted technology angle, but once again not just being armour slapped on industrial tools.
I've been wondering about this really. It appears the Leagues don't have a standing army of any kind and they just send out whatever. For a society that's meant to be practical and believes something "isn't worth doing unless doing right" it's a bit of an odd choice to have them on the whole be using industrial equipment for war rather than something purpose designed.
The Phazer wrote: I like the idea of them but... they really don't look like they can point the guns in the direction they're actually looking. Quite conspicuously tbh.
They definitely look like they'll only be able to aim their weapons in one particular direction. Arms don't seem like they'd be able to move into a position to let them fire forwards.
Not especially keen on these. The whole "cannot apparently aim at much" issue would be solved if one of the miniatures' Augmented left arm had an extended/extendable piston in the wrist. Whether that is a thing in the design or background to these I cannot say.
I get that typically things like Devastators can't really aim their big bulky 2 handed weapons that well because of their armour, but they aren't wearing exo-suits that could be easily modified to let them aim in directions other than to their left.
The reason I say I think I like them is the “hands” look add to me. I see what they were doing but the angles look strange. Don’t think it will be enough to put me off. I like that they haven’t just done a devastator style normal squad but with heavy weapons, they will stand out. I think a whole army of the the leagues will look quite good, plenty of diversity but a coherent theme.
Indeed. Most of the reveals so far have been pretty good and now wondering what the big reveal is at the end of the month.
Why are people complaining about the facing of the guns? They are obviously designed to be fired to the side. The shoulder armor covers for it, and it should provide plenty of cover for the head, which is another complaint I am seeing.
Chopstick wrote: Lol these dude need a better gun design because they can only shoot sideway.
I mean... have you ever seen a heavy bolter marine?
Hell, now with their cartoonishly big new bolter, the primaris are too basically forced to only shoot "sideway", which is basically how most weapons are shot anyway.
Domandi wrote: Why are people complaining about the facing of the guns? They are obviously designed to be fired to the side. The shoulder armor covers for it, and it should provide plenty of cover for the head, which is another complaint I am seeing.
The reason I say I think I like them is the “hands” look add to me. I see what they were doing but the angles look strange. Don’t think it will be enough to put me off. I like that they haven’t just done a devastator style normal squad but with heavy weapons, they will stand out. I think a whole army of the the leagues will look quite good, plenty of diversity but a coherent theme.
Indeed. Most of the reveals so far have been pretty good and now wondering what the big reveal is at the end of the month.
I don't have a problem with the way they're holding them - basically every single man-portable 40k heavy weapon is held like that, if they're not over-the-shoulder, that is.
What I don't like is the fact they're holding them in the first place. They have an entire specialized exo-frame built to carry the gun around, wouldn't it make sense to just have it's arms be directly integrated with the gun, Necron Destroyer-style, rather than relying on limpy mechanical wrists? It looks a bit like the gun and the exosuit weren't designed with each other in mind, to be honest.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't have a problem with the way they're holding them - basically every single man-portable 40k heavy weapon is held like that, if they're not over-the-shoulder, that is.
What I don't like is the fact they're holding them in the first place. They have an entire specialized exo-frame built to carry the gun around, wouldn't it make sense to just have it's arms be directly integrated with the gun, Necron Destroyer-style, rather than relying on limpy mechanical wrists? It looks a bit like the gun and the exosuit weren't designed with each other in mind, to be honest.
I don't think they were? They're industrial exo-suits that were good enough to carry heavy weapons they've just stuck some armour on the left side of.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't have a problem with the way they're holding them - basically every single man-portable 40k heavy weapon is held like that, if they're not over-the-shoulder, that is.
What I don't like is the fact they're holding them in the first place. They have an entire specialized exo-frame built to carry the gun around, wouldn't it make sense to just have it's arms be directly integrated with the gun, Necron Destroyer-style, rather than relying on limpy mechanical wrists? It looks a bit like the gun and the exosuit weren't designed with each other in mind, to be honest.
I don't think they were? They're industrial exo-suits that were good enough to carry heavy weapons they've just stuck some armour on the left side of.
The powerful suits they wear are adapted from rugged engineering rigs and allow the Brôkhyr Thunderkyn to heft the heaviest man-portable weapons the Leagues can muster with ease.
Eeeh, maybe, but to me that paragraph implies they were engineering rigs that were then redesigned for use in warfare. I just don't really like the look of their limpy mechanical wrists, tbh, I'd like the guns to be more integrated with the suit.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: What I don't like is the fact they're holding them in the first place. They have an entire specialized exo-frame built to carry the gun around, wouldn't it make sense to just have it's arms be directly integrated with the gun, Necron Destroyer-style, rather than relying on limpy mechanical wrists? It looks a bit like the gun and the exosuit weren't designed with each other in mind, to be honest.
Fair point, they could have gone full Aliens Smart Gun and have the thing be held by an arm, but I'd still say the result isn't that bad tbh, it makes them look like repurposed miner stuff, which is very fitting.
The one thing they could have made to have it look better tho is to continue on their SC2 """inspiration""" and make their robot arms look bigger (think SC2 marine hands).
Just like the feet, having big hands has always been a visual element used to signal "sturdy and strong", but just like with the feet of the other units it seems that GW forgot that basic rule of design and it shows here, the tiny hands make the thing look a bit... strange, like some kind rotisserie chicken.
Lord Damocles wrote: I don't like the Squat military seemingly being a militia semi-cosplaying as genestealer cultist miners.
That I can agree on too. But while it was particularly pronounced on the first unit shown, this one doesn't too much like that tbh.
Hell, now with their cartoonishly big new bolter, the primaris are too basically forced to only shoot "sideway", which is basically how most weapons are shot anyway.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't have a problem with the way they're holding them - basically every single man-portable 40k heavy weapon is held like that, if they're not over-the-shoulder, that is.
Only to a degree. Most allow some degree of torso twist, these have arm extenders specifically so that the guns can be held flat to the chest and no further, despite augmented hands.
What I don't like is the fact they're holding them in the first place. They have an entire specialized exo-frame built to carry the gun around, wouldn't it make sense to just have it's arms be directly integrated with the gun, Necron Destroyer-style, rather than relying on limpy mechanical wrists? It looks a bit like the gun and the exosuit weren't designed with each other in mind, to be honest.
But, yeah. That's the big problem. They're making a point to create and wear special suits that seem to do slightly less than whats normal for other armies heavy weapons troopers..
the difference between those hands and SC2 Marine hands may well be similar to those between a high tech, highly engineered Japanese car engine pumping out loads of horse power from 2L, and a much larger heavier lower tech American muscle car engine doing much the same with a 5L V8
Hell, now with their cartoonishly big new bolter, the primaris are too basically forced to only shoot "sideway", which is basically how most weapons are shot anyway.
Why is shooting sideways a complaint, outside of maybe pistols? It’s how people fire guns! Blimey people will pick on anything, no matter how ludicrous their complaint.
Hell, now with their cartoonishly big new bolter, the primaris are too basically forced to only shoot "sideway", which is basically how most weapons are shot anyway.
Lol no
Spoiler:
Was that picture of a marine literally being forced to shoot "sideway" ... supposed to disprove my point?
wat?
Well if you can't tell the different between a BSF space marine pose and a better shooting pose I can't really help you.
Spoiler:
Wtf are you on?
All thos guns have a less than 45° angle from the torso, none are even close to shot "infront" of the torso.
Again, that's literally how every single rifles are used.
I think you spent to much time playing FPS and thing that the normal way to handle a long barrel is to point it infront of you.
The real problem here is the lore that says squats were genetically engineered to be more able to survive. However, being more able to survive involves having stumpy little arms that require cybernetic extensions to use a gun properly.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: The real problem here is the lore that says squats were genetically engineered to be more able to survive. However, being more able to survive involves having stumpy little arms that require cybernetic extensions to use a gun properly.
I do too. I like the idea and their execution of an exoframe that isn't primarily armor but rather enhanced strength/mobility.
Blatant Edge of Tomorrow rip-off. Since when has Tom Cruise a beard? And more importantly: Where is Emily Blunt? I would have bought an exosuit with her in it. But creepy garden gnomes?! No way.
I do too. I like the idea and their execution of an exoframe that isn't primarily armor but rather enhanced strength/mobility.
Blatant Edge of Tomorrow rip-off. Since when has Tom Cruise a beard? And more importantly: Where is Emily Blunt? I would have bought an exosuit with her in it. But creepy garden gnomes?! No way.
Edge of Tommorow didn't invent the idea of an exosuit, you know.
This whole idea of rip-offs in the sci fi genre is a bit much. Everyone is inspired or ripped off from other things.
Lots of things have used exo suits and industrial vibe. It’s fine to see inspiration in a model but it doesn’t mean its a rip off.
The artwork from the article gives off a real aliens smartgunner vibe for me and the suits do have an industrial military vibe like the ones from edge of tomorrow and fallout. Not a rip off though.
So you’re saying these aren’t blatantly ripped off the APU mech suits in Matrix: Revolutions?
Actually, no, you’re right; wait for the slightly bigger two-gun version.
Mr_Rose wrote: So you’re saying these aren’t blatantly ripped off the APU mech suits in Matrix: Revolutions?
Actually, no, you’re right; wait for the slightly bigger two-gun version.
I may be missing the sarcasm or something, but they are substantially different from the APUs.
Mr_Rose wrote: So you’re saying these aren’t blatantly ripped off the APU mech suits in Matrix: Revolutions?
Actually, no, you’re right; wait for the slightly bigger two-gun version.
I’m saying they aren’t a rip off of any of the many many many exo suits in sci-fi films! A two gun heavy suit like the matrix ones would be cool though!
I'm a bit surprised their weapons aren't connected to ammo on their back like Devastators and Havocs are, seems like that would have made sense with the Exo-suit. Especially when there's a heavy-bolter type weapon coming.
I really like them. Would like to see one with a helmet and what other options are in the kit. The Leagues look to have a nice breadth to the range with a good few unifying elements. They really do look like a lot of fun.Wondering if they will do a full reveal at NOVA- hopefully with an Army Box up for imminent order as well.
Malika2 wrote: I really love those new fellas, but is it just me or is the Squats range a bit all over the place when it comes to its design philosophy?
On the whole they have an industrial astronaut vibe but the more specific themes for each model have been a bit all over the place. It's like they can't really decide what to go for and each new model is a different direction.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised their weapons aren't connected to ammo on their back like Devastators and Havocs are, seems like that would have made sense with the Exo-suit. Especially when there's a heavy-bolter type weapon coming.
I did think that -especially with the bolt cannon as it would look cool belt fed, but it might have a drum magazine instead- seems to be a thing with them?
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Malika2 wrote: I really love those new fellas, but is it just me or is the Squats range a bit all over the place when it comes to its design philosophy?
Looks to me more like variation of themes around a core of design elements- like the void suits, the roll cages on these and the vehicle ..looks like they willl be interesting to collect. Probably will make more sense when we see a full army laid out.
I do too. I like the idea and their execution of an exoframe that isn't primarily armor but rather enhanced strength/mobility.
Blatant Edge of Tomorrow rip-off. Since when has Tom Cruise a beard? And more importantly: Where is Emily Blunt? I would have bought an exosuit with her in it. But creepy garden gnomes?! No way.
Unless one of the optional bits is a pair of visibly bare butt cheeks, I have to completely disagree.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Malika2 wrote: I really love those new fellas, but is it just me or is the Squats range a bit all over the place when it comes to its design philosophy?
There are differences between the heavy and medium type armors but I personally see a logical progression within those two groups (with the Necromunda squats being a third asthetic track) though I agree there are significant differences between them.
It kind of feels like the Votann have a few distinct "subfractions" within themselves, with slightly distinct aesthetics, when it comes to their getups, from thick StarCraft esque power armour with runes on it for the Warriors, to the slapdash exposed machinery Edge of Tomorrow getups for the Engineers.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: It kind of feels like the Votann have a few distinct "subfractions" within themselves, with slightly distinct aesthetics, when it comes to their getups, from thick StarCraft esque power armour with runes on it for the Warriors, to the slapdash exposed machinery Edge of Tomorrow getups for the Engineers.
That was sort of the case with the original Squats too, the basic Squat Warriors had a different style from the Guilds who had a different style from the Hearthguard. I feel like their technology and equipment should have stayed fairly cohesive at least but we've got several different directions for that in a way where the armoured astronaut vibe is the only real element that ties them together.
I think everything has core elements that tie it all together.
To me it feels a bit roman legion. You have the line infantry and officers that have a very distinct look combined with that transport truck thing that maintains the same look. The terminators fall into the same professional aesthetic.
Then you have the auxiliary forces. Stuff like berserks, bike scouts, heavy weapon teams.
Honestly you look at any real world army and it has divisions and structures that are different from each other. Certain different squads in different gear from different generations, equipment purchases and focus.
Wargames are the same, any army that grows large enough will have distinct niches and groups. Sometimes they are really obvious like in Tau between Tau and Kroot; sometimes its more muted.
So yeah I'd expect some visual variety, otherwise everything is far too samey.
Things look different when you're not hyper focusing on each individual element and instead see a whole army as a combined single force on the table.
Squats are clearly going for a mix of formal army and scout-rangers with a more rough and ready look to them.
- The leg mechanism looks to be designed and braced for forward movement and not side stepping advancing in the direction of the gun position.
- an over-the-back weapon mount would have been cool and given more angles of fire direction.
But, like I said, I like them overall and will surely get them when they come out.
I think you would still be able to pivot easily with those legs. Also it is a conversion beamer, you stay in place and fire rather than advancing with them
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised their weapons aren't connected to ammo on their back like Devastators and Havocs are, seems like that would have made sense with the Exo-suit. Especially when there's a heavy-bolter type weapon coming.
That's a good point actually. Belt fed stuff is something GW seem to have forgotten it even existed, as the new HH predator sponsons seems to indicate.
I laughed when I saw these yesterday. When I saw them again today, so too did I laugh again. I don't know what that means yet.
I really hope with the biggest reveal yet we're finally at the point where GW shows a full army picture. I'm not a fan of seeing all these units in isolation when it's as long drawn out a reveal as it's been.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised their weapons aren't connected to ammo on their back like Devastators and Havocs are, seems like that would have made sense with the Exo-suit. Especially when there's a heavy-bolter type weapon coming.
That's a good point actually. Belt fed stuff is something GW seem to have forgotten it even existed, as the new HH predator sponsons seems to indicate.
The Sagitaur Auto-cannon is belt-fed, so the Squats do make use of them, at least.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: The real problem here is the lore that says squats were genetically engineered to be more able to survive. However, being more able to survive involves having stumpy little arms that require cybernetic extensions to use a gun properly.
Shhhhh, don't question GW amazing lore writing.
They're a space based race, chibi statures saves on reaction mass...
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised their weapons aren't connected to ammo on their back like Devastators and Havocs are, seems like that would have made sense with the Exo-suit. Especially when there's a heavy-bolter type weapon coming.
That's a good point actually. Belt fed stuff is something GW seem to have forgotten it even existed, as the new HH predator sponsons seems to indicate.
The Sagitaur Auto-cannon is belt-fed, so the Squats do make use of them, at least.
Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin.
I was under the impression they were all Ironkin.
Each Ironkin consists of a Cerebral Unit – woven with microfield generators that make it very hard to destroy – and a unique mechanical body. An Ironkin’s body isn’t just some component to be replaced – it’s deeply personal, as much as the bodies of their fleshy cousins, and designed to fulfil a certain niche, such as mining support units, cargo luggers, combat pilots, or shock troopers.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin.
I was under the impression they were all Ironkin.
Each Ironkin consists of a Cerebral Unit – woven with microfield generators that make it very hard to destroy – and a unique mechanical body. An Ironkin’s body isn’t just some component to be replaced – it’s deeply personal, as much as the bodies of their fleshy cousins, and designed to fulfil a certain niche, such as mining support units, cargo luggers, combat pilots, or shock troopers.
Ironkin are the AI guys, that little dude with the apron on it says helps out a Brokyhr?? iron-master, so maybe a new character type.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.
The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.
The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.
They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.
Strg Alt wrote: Blatant Edge of Tomorrow rip-off. Since when has Tom Cruise a beard? And more importantly: Where is Emily Blunt? I would have bought an exosuit with her in it. But creepy garden gnomes?! No way.
Emily Blunt did star as a garden gnome in Gnomeo and Juliet, so she is indeed present here in spirit!
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.
The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.
They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.
According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.
Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.
Honestly, some interesting ideas and parts I really liked. Anyone hoping that squats are going to be the good guy human faction is going to be disappointed. They’re a different flavour of fascist to the Imperium. Less zealous genocidal theocracy, more ‘we won’t think twice to commit genocide if we think it’s in our interests’.
The thing that bothers continues to bother me though is this; every piece of LoV art looks one thousand times better and more interesting to me than all of the miniatures. I couldn’t put my finger on it until I realised they’re consistently being depicted in the art with more human proportions. I think I could have actually liked the model range if the squats were a bit less squat. More Hobbit movie dwarf than GW “I have no knees” dwarf.
And here I thought the terrible thing about modern GW dwarfs is that they actually have knees.
Not sure good guy human faction was ever a concern? I thought the major criticism about it all sounding too good to be true was about Leagues sounding like they're plain better at everything with no downsides of any nature. Unless you think just treating robots like real people is enough to make you the good guys?
Geifer wrote: And here I thought the terrible thing about modern GW dwarfs is that they actually have knees.
Not sure good guy human faction was ever a concern? I thought the major criticism about it all sounding too good to be true was about Leagues sounding like they're plain better at everything with no downsides of any nature. Unless you think just treating robots like real people is enough to make you the good guys?
^ goalpost moving
Many of those "concerns" specifically called out the (supposed) socially harmonious, benevolent and unified exterior of the faction. People were not just fretting about high-tech guns and daem-munity.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.
The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.
They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.
According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.
Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.
I liked the loremasters video, lays down the structure and they are very much rooted in old squat lore but with a modern twist. And in true 40k fashion they are a race in trouble with the votann being unreliable but need for warp travel etc.
The ironkin thing was good to know and clears up that this is in fact a snug helmet, just as I’d hoped. There were glimpses of stuff in the artwork too that could have been larger vehicles too.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).
So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.
If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.
The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.
They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.
According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.
Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.
I liked the loremasters video, lays down the structure and they are very much rooted in old squat lore but with a modern twist. And in true 40k fashion they are a race in trouble with the votann being unreliable but need for warp travel etc.
The ironkin thing was good to know and clears up that this is in fact a snug helmet, just as I’d hoped. There were glimpses of stuff in the artwork too that could have been larger vehicles too.
I'm not sure about that being a helmet. One of the pieces of artwork in the video is 2 very similar heads laying next to an Ironkin head as it talks about making them.
Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?
Well GW have done it, these will be the first 40k miniatures I have bought for at least a decade or so. I love the sculpt designs, the character in the miniatures - I think they are just enough of a reference to the originals, without being too much (I am actually glad they have more of a 'sci-fi' feel than the originals did). Overall, I think whoever has done the concept and design really needs to be applauded, they've done a cracking job.
I'm going to be use them for 2nd edition 40k sure (I am pleased to see its a straight connection with most of the old unit entries!) but I am sure GW does not care whence (or where to?) the money flows, only that it flows!
JSG wrote: Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.
It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.
“Ironkin tend not to end up in positions of command, such as Kâhl, this is not where their strengths lie”
This is the quote from the loremasters. It specifically calls out Kâhls and says the don’t tend to end up in that position, and it’s rare for them to be ambitious. They are more helpful then leaders. So why would they have an ironkin option on the model that they specifically say they don’t end up as.
Yes it isn’t a definite, so I could see them making a named ironkin leader, or it’s open enough for a home brew one, but no chance it’s an option in a mainstream kit.
That’s my take anyway, also no other iron kin has a head like that, that we’ve seen. I could be wrong but even if I am my Kâhl will have that head and it be a helmet.
JSG wrote: Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.
It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.
I think that's more likely to end up being a special character rather than a regular option in a kit [looks more like a fancy artificer helmet to me]. Just my opinion, you could well be right.
loving all the lore so far- that they are more numerous than Tau or Eldar, that one of the Leagues has broken Ork Waaghs and Imperial crusades. The feel is definitely dwarf- I'm glad they aren't a dwindling race- I always felt bad losing with my eldar as I felt I was speeding their decline.
They also name dropped a Kahl who has a great destiny according to the prophesies of the Votann so I'm guessing he'll end up as a special character. Some the art was brilliant as well- one of their hammer shaped ships- absolutely massive with a broken imperial cruiser across its prow looking tiny.
JSG wrote: Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.
It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.
I think that's more likely to end up being a special character rather than a regular option in a kit [looks more like a fancy artificer helmet to me]. Just my opinion, you could well be right.
loving all the lore so far- that they are more numerous than Tau or Eldar, that one of the Leagues has broken Ork Waaghs and Imperial crusades. The feel is definitely dwarf- I'm glad they aren't a dwindling race- I always felt bad losing with my eldar as I felt I was speeding their decline.
They also name dropped a Kahl who has a great destiny according to the prophesies of the Votann so I'm guessing he'll end up as a special character. Some the art was brilliant as well- one of their hammer shaped ships- absolutely massive with a broken imperial cruiser across its prow looking tiny.
They do have a good feel to them, very much dwarves and lots of stuff from old squats. I liked the hearhs, forges and crucibles. The organisation of the holds and oathbonds is good to. All very traditional squat/dwarf stuff, then you chuck in clones and Al and the fact the votann are losing the plot. All good.
Andykp wrote: “Ironkin tend not to end up in positions of command, such as Kâhl, this is not where their strengths lie”
This is the quote from the loremasters. It specifically calls out Kâhls and says the don’t tend to end up in that position, and it’s rare for them to be ambitious. They are more helpful then leaders. So why would they have an ironkin option on the model that they specifically say they don’t end up as.
Yes it isn’t a definite, so I could see them making a named ironkin leader, or it’s open enough for a home brew one, but no chance it’s an option in a mainstream kit.
That’s my take anyway, also no other iron kin has a head like that, that we’ve seen. I could be wrong but even if I am my Kâhl will have that head and it be a helmet.
Food for thought, the multipart Marine captain used to come with a Deathwatch shoulder pad. You could buy ten and make a chapter's worth of former Deathwatch members to make up your chapter's command structure. By the background that would be exceedingly unlikely to happen, but that doesn't stop the inclusion of one small bit on the sprue for people who want that option.
For Squats we're looking at one of those rare cases of a character that comes with options on the sprue. I could see the designers going with something ambiguous like a carved dwarf face helmet to allow people to have an Ironkin as leader. Or a normal space dwarf, considering we can't tell whether what's under the helmet is flesh or metal.
No idea if that fits with the fluff that Ironkin bodies aren't usually subject to change. We haven't seen an Ironkin without armor/dome head/helmet to my knowledge. No idea if that's part of their body or an external bit and their actual head could fit inside the dwarf face helmet.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?
Nothing at all. GW is likely very conscious about writing things the way they do. They don't want Ironkin to have a meaningful place in the command hierarchy, but they'll make damn sure the option to have an Ironkin commander is not categorically ruled out so people who are into the idea can have one, even if it represents a rare case.
That looks like what they’ve done fluff wise. It’s open enough to allow folk to do it if they want, and I wouldn’t have an issue with it or using that head as an ironkin. I still don’t think that’s the intended purpose of that part though.
All other ironkin we have seen have a distinctive look, in art or the miniatures. Ironkin don’t swap out body parts, their bodies are very personal too them, as reiterated in the videos, so they wouldn’t build a new leader head, if an ironkin got promoted the fluff suggested that they would have the same head as a normal ironkin.
As for the deathwatch parts, any marine can have been a deathwatch marine, that’s not uncommon, so it was just a nice extra to have in the kit. It’s apples and oranges really.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?
That's the first step on the path to Chaos Squats.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?
That's the first step on the path to Chaos Squats.
Even they aren’t rules out either, GW are keeping terror options open with the squats.
I like that the Imperium is confused about the Votann, not realising or recognising that they are using AI, and the very same discussion is happening here. I think you could make arguments for that 'death mask' style head being either an organic creature wearing a helmet (albeit very snug) or an AI and thats just a metal shell.
Pacific wrote: Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?
We don't know, but as a guess, yeah, we're speculating that there will be a launch box and it won't be much longer until it goes up for pre-order given we seem to be reaching the end of the model previews. Then a couple of months until the codex and separate box releases.
That of course assumes no unforeseen logistics issues and, of course, that Squats don't get an uncharacteristically large model wave to go with the codex, as GW could then draw out the previews even longer.
Pacific wrote: Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?
We don't know, but as a guess, yeah, we're speculating that there will be a launch box and it won't be much longer until it goes up for pre-order given we seem to be reaching the end of the model previews. Then a couple of months until the codex and separate box releases.
That of course assumes no unforeseen logistics issues and, of course, that Squats don't get an uncharacteristically large model wave to go with the codex, as GW could then draw out the previews even longer.
Perhaps there's going to be more previews between the launch army box, and the separate box releases?
My thought on the combat patrol would be the Kahl, the troops, the Brokyrs and the moon buggy.
The full Sisters of Battle box was fairly substantial, was there a vehicle? Or just the penitent engine?
Sisters of Battle box is a bad example to go by, as it was made up of simplified build stuff.
After that box, we've only seen things made up of full kits. Lumineth, Orks, and Black Templars were all full kits packed early--and basically were Combat Patrol sized.
Pacific wrote: I like that the Imperium is confused about the Votann, not realising or recognising that they are using AI, and the very same discussion is happening here. I think you could make arguments for that 'death mask' style head being either an organic creature wearing a helmet (albeit very snug) or an AI and thats just a metal shell.
Or a ghost in the Shell style full body replacement, with just an organic brain inside an otherwise cybernetic shell.
Pacific wrote: Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?
We don't know, but as a guess, yeah, we're speculating that there will be a launch box and it won't be much longer until it goes up for pre-order given we seem to be reaching the end of the model previews. Then a couple of months until the codex and separate box releases.
That of course assumes no unforeseen logistics issues and, of course, that Squats don't get an uncharacteristically large model wave to go with the codex, as GW could then draw out the previews even longer.
Perhaps there's going to be more previews between the launch army box, and the separate box releases?
Between pre-order announcement and release, sure. Between the launch box and codex release, no. The codices should be identical in content and the army showcase in the launch box book would spoil any unseen models. So Gw is going to finish previews before that, if need be with a final preview dump.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The Black Templars army box was a travesty, nearly half of it wasn't even Black Templars.
Only the dread wasn’t specifically Black Templars. The worst part was they had the gall to call 13 models an ‘army box’.
Yeah, the Dread wasn't specifically Black Templars - it also made for like, a third of the box's value model-wise, given the only other things in it were a single squad and two characters.
They couldn't even be bothered to toss in the upgrade pack that actually included bits for vehicles, like the Redemptor.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The Black Templars army box was a travesty, nearly half of it wasn't even Black Templars.
Only the dread wasn’t specifically Black Templars. The worst part was they had the gall to call 13 models an ‘army box’.
Is the Chaos Knights box thinly 40k army box after Templars?I seemed to be a good set and definitely looked like an army. I was surprised it wasn't just a single titan. If they gave LoV a proper sized army box like that id be pretty happy. expecting hearthkyn, einhyr, Pioneers and the Kahl . would be decent enough.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The Black Templars army box was a travesty, nearly half of it wasn't even Black Templars.
Only the dread wasn’t specifically Black Templars. The worst part was they had the gall to call 13 models an ‘army box’.
Is the Chaos Knights box thinly 40k army box after Templars?I seemed to be a good set and definitely looked like an army. I was surprised it wasn't just a single titan. If they gave LoV a proper sized army box like that id be pretty happy. expecting hearthkyn, einhyr, Pioneers and the Kahl . would be decent enough.
The Chaos Knight box was more expensive but both (and I think Beastsnaggas) saved you roundabout £40.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
What are you referring to? I've not seen anything about any of that
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Where in the actual Gehenna are you getting all of this from.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Where in the actual Gehenna are you getting all of this from.
Look at the end of the video I posted. If you blink, you'll miss it. 1:46- 1:52
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Where in the actual Gehenna are you getting all of this from.
Look at the end of the video I posted. If you blink, you'll miss it.
Please point out the specific time rather than just needlessly avoiding giving a straight answer. There is nothing new in that video that I can see.
At the 2:12 mark in the video, there's conversions of Cadians with Empire Outrider helmet heads and a medic made from Tempestus bits.
EDIT: I just watched it quick with the sound off, but that's the closest thing to Grot 6's "human contingent" I could find. But I admit I could easily be very wrong.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Where in the actual Gehenna are you getting all of this from.
Look at the end of the video I posted. If you blink, you'll miss it. 1:46- 1:52
...Those aren't new, at all. Have you not been paying any attention to the Leagues?
That's the Hearthkyn, Hernkin Pioneer Trikes, and Einhyr Exo-suit, all units we've seen already. The "human auxiliary/ contingent" are the Imperial Guardsmen they're playing against, because it's a battle report.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Isn’t it probably just squats vs imperial guard? Those hover trikes and infantry are things we have seen aren’t they?
Grot 6 wrote: If you say so. You just want to be a douche, so that's on you.
Seriously, have you not been paying attention to the Leagues? It's as if you saw those in the video and just assumed they were new units without even checking (even though they're units we've seen multiple times), then for some strange reason thought being needlessly vague about it was a good idea before deciding to start insulting people.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Isn’t it probably just squats vs imperial guard? Those hover trikes and infantry are things we have seen aren’t they?
Removed.
Whoever that is, those humans looked pretty cool to me. If they aren't the Voltan Human Axillary troops, then the error's on me. It's not like I'm married to information, the way some people are acting here.
31'st is going to be more about all this stuff they spoke of in the teaser.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Isn’t it probably just squats vs imperial guard? Those hover trikes and infantry are things we have seen aren’t they?
Removed.
Whoever that is, those humans looked pretty cool to me. If they aren't the Voltan Human Axillary troops, then the error's on me. It's not like I'm married to information, the way some people are acting here.
31'st is going to be more about all this stuff they spoke of in the teaser.
You've gone straight to being rude and insulting because you made a mistake.
Grot 6 wrote: If you say so. You just want to be a douche, so that's on you.
Seriously, have you not been paying attention to the Leagues? It's as if you saw those in the video and just assumed they were new units without even checking (even though they're units we've seen multiple times), then for some strange reason thought being needlessly vague about it was a good idea before deciding to start insulting people.
Grot 6 wrote: If you say so. You just want to be a douche, so that's on you.
Seriously, have you not been paying attention to the Leagues? It's as if you saw those in the video and just assumed they were new units without even checking (even though they're units we've seen multiple times), then for some strange reason thought being needlessly vague about it was a good idea before deciding to start insulting people.
There's a human auxiliary/ contingent that has been shown and teased. Second are some vehicles options of the hover kind, and third was a heavy armored infantry type.
More to come in a couple of days....
Isn’t it probably just squats vs imperial guard? Those hover trikes and infantry are things we have seen aren’t they?
Removed.
Whoever that is, those humans looked pretty cool to me. If they aren't the Voltan Human Axillary troops, then the error's on me. It's not like I'm married to information, the way some people are acting here.
31'st is going to be more about all this stuff they spoke of in the teaser.
I think they match a conversion from a recent issue of White Dwarf, showcasing Guard regiments. Issue 474, the Ventrillians.
Grot 6 wrote: If you say so. You just want to be a douche, so that's on you.
Seriously, have you not been paying attention to the Leagues? It's as if you saw those in the video and just assumed they were new units without even checking (even though they're units we've seen multiple times), then for some strange reason thought being needlessly vague about it was a good idea before deciding to start insulting people.
Let it go, you'll thank yourself for it later.
Getting that wrong isn't a problem.
But you made a claim about new units without any further thought - and it was something that wasn't some difficult to find information about the Leagues, but 3 of their main units that have been shown several times, suggesting you haven't been paying attention to them in the first place
Then you're needlessly vague about where the "new units" are shown, twice
Then you call someone "difficult" for asking you to give the specific time rather than be vague
Then you start being insulting and rude - in multiple posts - because of the mistake you made as, if you're not at fault
That's a guard regiment that is a conversion who's popped up a couple of times. Ventrulian nobles or something like that, adding WFB (and perhaps Bloodbowl) heads to Cadians.
It's cool that GW are showcasing conversions (especially ahead of a new Guard book), but yeah, these guys are from a known army. They're not Votan.
For reference, this image is lifted from the 8th ed Imperial Guard Codex, page 79, though it does have a caption there that isn't present on this version.
Grot 6 wrote: If that is a new Guard regiment, can you point me in the right direction from where they come from?
Scratch build. They have been seen before. Pistolier helmets for example.
No way gw will add scratch build ig as squat unit box would be super expensive being combination multiple kits for one. No way to have just those heads...you would get 10 pistoliers without heads alongside.
Cool models though. Too bad not cheap to make outside gw studio.
coin next month so that probably mean the codex is due then too (although it could be the GW 30th of the pre-order month counts as that month)
Since 9e codexes they have actually started to refer store date as month. Dg and ba were marked month x(october or november), preorder previous month. That was when i noticed the change to marketing.
Missed that. I rewatched the first few minutes of the battle report and they showed images for the Berserks and Sagitaur. I can get screenshots, but I think they've already been previewed. Didn't see any mention of the Thunderkyn or Pioneers in the video.
In that case, we don't really know what the combat patrol will be. I still suspect the buggy over the bikes meself.
Enemy units gain Judgement tokens in a number of ways, from completing an action (how dare you!) to destroying a Votann unit (how VERY dare you!), while Kâhls can dole out extra tokens with their Grim Efficiency ability.
This is an extremely interesting take on the Dwarvish grudges and I gotta say I like it.
So if I perform an action, you automatically get autowounding 6's against me? If I happen to destroy your unit it goes up to 5's? That just seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.
What is the iron hammer sagitar? It’s mentioned in the article showing the army list but no new pictures and no one mentioning it who has watched the video, as far as I have seen.
Either/Or wrote: What is the iron hammer sagitar? It’s mentioned in the article showing the army list but no new pictures and no one mentioning it who has watched the video, as far as I have seen.
It’s a Saggitaur called “Ironhammer” just like there’s a unit of Warriors called “Vynn’s Voidstriders” - crusade forces have named units.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The thing that bothers me, is the fact that the name they gave to the "Chapter Tactic/Dynasty Code/Sept Tenet/...": is the "League Custom"
So when they give you the possibility to create a custom one, it'd be a custom League Custom
I'd presume it's custom as in "a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time."
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The thing that bothers me, is the fact that the name they gave to the "Chapter Tactic/Dynasty Code/Sept Tenet/...": is the "League Custom"
So when they give you the possibility to create a custom one, it'd be a custom League Custom
You're assuming that's a possibility. I suspect that, as of Codex Chaos Marines, custom <subfaction> is dead and gone. An ex-parrot.
And by the time they work through the 10th edition books, they'll take almost of all them out. Then they'll start bringing them back.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The thing that bothers me, is the fact that the name they gave to the "Chapter Tactic/Dynasty Code/Sept Tenet/...": is the "League Custom"
So when they give you the possibility to create a custom one, it'd be a custom League Custom
You won't get a custom League Custom. League Custom is set in stone and you should get whacked over the head with a really heavy book describing it in excruciating detail* for the mere suggestion of deviating from it.
*Excruciating detail has the positive side effect of increasing page count and whacking factor.
Also man, it seems like everyone and their mother is going to be running Thurians. 1cp for a permanent, army-wide 4+ autowound against an unit? Yes please.
warboss wrote: Was this previously revealed? I don't recall seeing it prior to it popping up in the NOVA thread but I'll concede that I may have missed it.
Does anyone have any rough estimates on how large either of the two vehicles are? I'm guessing the smaller one is rhino sized, and the Land Fortress is like a tall Land Raider?
Roughly Rhino and Land Raider sized footprints sounds about right, although I suspect the Land Fortress is taller than a Land Raider. The moon buggy looks like it might be two thirds the height of a dinobot, which sounds about right for a Rhino.
A shame that the box is a bit pants, I really dont need the bikes, dex and infantry repetition at this point.
Wonder when the individual kits are going to be available.
As an army starter its good as it gives you a good unit of troops but yeah as a collector/painter first I'd have liked a variety. Might get it anyway as I do love the troops and bikes.
Loving the kits- the characters are really great- the Grimnyr is excellent as is the Brokhyr Iron master and I love the COGs.
The Hekaton is very cool- not what I was expecting but I'm glad its design follows the Sagitaur.Its a nice army overall with plenty of scope for a second wave in 10th.
I don't like how the Hekaton's wheels are seemingly the same size as the Sagitaur's, so they just look very undersized. I mean, just compare and contrast, they're proportionally much smaller compared to the body.
So Squats have a Grymnar, who is very clearly an Odin figure, with the missing eye and raven icons.
But we also have
*Logan Grimnar
*Ulric the Slayer, who also looks like Odin and is missing an eye
*NJal Stormcaller, who has ravens
*Magnus the red, who gave up an eye for knowledge
GaroRobe wrote: So Squats have a Grymnar, who is very clearly an Odin figure, with the missing eye and raven icons.
But we also have
*Logan Grimnar
*Ulric the Slayer, who also looks like Odin and is missing an eye
*NJal Stormcaller, who has ravens
*Magnus the red, who gave up an eye for knowledge
Don't forget Magnus is also in the faction associated very strongly with bird motifs.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't like how the Hekaton's wheels are seemingly the same size as the Sagitaur's, so they just look very undersized. I mean, just compare and contrast, they're proportionally much smaller compared to the body.
I know the theme seems to be NASA-punk, but I don't think it works so well for the Hekaton. The Sagitaur I can get behind because it is smaller, and could be argued to be like a recon vehicle/moon buggy. The Hekaton with its bubble canopies and wheels doesn't scream "fortress" to me, unless they were going for B-17 flying fortress. Maybe it would have looked better with treads instead of wheels? Maybe instead of giant bubble canopy in the front, have vision slits/sensors like the turrets already have?
I really like both of the wheeled vehicles. Hate the bikes as much as when I first saw them.
I have to say that I’ve gone from absolutely hating this range to sort of quite liking some parts of it (though still hating other parts). There are some nice bits of design in there, but I still really don’t like the whole Warhammer Fantasy dwarfs in space thing.
The parts that work for me are mainly the parts that look more sci fi. I think all the minis look better with their helmets on and I can’t stand the “dwarf” faces. It probably doesn’t help that I really don’t like Warhammer’s take on dwarfs (never have done). I’m really not the target audience here.
The heads I do quite like are the demiurge ones. I think they’re the only ones I’d use and I’d paint them in non-human skin tones to make then even less fantasy dwarfy. I’m thinking grey skin with white facial hair would look good.
The more I look at it the more I wonder if that land fortress started life as a hover tank. The way it curves in at the bottom and all it just feels like its original design (or some variation of it) had rockets/jets/hover panels instead of wheels.
Now that we've seen the full range, my thoughts on them haven't really changed that much.A cool looking army with a classic sci-fi vibe, but most of the units are lacking on the Space Dwarf aspects. Potentially my new favourite army but several units in the range feel a bit middling at best.
The Iron-master, Grimnyr, Kahl and Thunderkyn are really great models. The Hearthkyn, pioneers, Einhyr Champion and Sagitaur are cool. Einhyr I feel are a little boring, while both the Hekaton and Beserks feel like they don't do their ideas justice at all. The Hekaton is let down by the wheels mainly, and the Beserks don't really seem to have a lore reason to be how they are like Slayers do, while the models don't feel that heavily augmented. I wouldn't say any of it is bad though, just disappointing.
Really though my main issue with the whole model range has been the feet. Wish they had the typical Dwarf style boots to make them feel less top heavy.
beast_gts wrote: While I'm happy we're getting a version of the Mole Mortar, I'm wondering what's happened to the Thudd Gun and larger artillery...
I have the feeling that the truly big units from old, such as the Colossus and the Goliath Mega Cannon, are going to be coming in a future wave.
We still have certain units that were hinted at in Artwork that isn't coming in this release. The Banner Bearers in the Kahl artwork hasn't been shown, and one artwork teases flyers.
NAVARRO wrote: So for the army box what are we thinking, £150- £175 ?
Black Templar one was £125.
We're entering the period when people will defend any GW price rise as "b-b-b-b-but inflation, they're a business!" so I want to say £150, but Into The Dark was only a £5 rise on Octarius so I'll go £135.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Very VERY shoddy photoshop job of the Fortress with more proportional wheels
Downside is that it now looks kind of like a monster truck
Looks Bad IMO. XD XD. I would rather see this modded to be a dropship instead though, now that would be the cherry on top of the cake.
Arbitrator wrote:
NAVARRO wrote: So for the army box what are we thinking, £150- £175 ?
Black Templar one was £125.
We're entering the period when people will defend any GW price rise as "b-b-b-b-but inflation, they're a business!" so I want to say £150, but Into The Dark was only a £5 rise on Octarius so I'll go £135.
I think GW will take the current economic environment to take things a bit further, I hope I'm wrong!
Most of the rules from the votann codex have leaked online as a small PDF file. Not going to post it but if you're Very Online you probably know where to find it.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't like how the Hekaton's wheels are seemingly the same size as the Sagitaur's, so they just look very undersized. I mean, just compare and contrast, they're proportionally much smaller compared to the body.
I know the theme seems to be NASA-punk, but I don't think it works so well for the Hekaton. The Sagitaur I can get behind because it is smaller, and could be argued to be like a recon vehicle/moon buggy. The Hekaton with its bubble canopies and wheels doesn't scream "fortress" to me, unless they were going for B-17 flying fortress. Maybe it would have looked better with treads instead of wheels? Maybe instead of giant bubble canopy in the front, have vision slits/sensors like the turrets already have?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: 11pts for infantry? What are their stats again? 11pts puts them on par with a Necron warrior, iirc, which seems kind of high?
M5" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 2A Ld7 Sv3+
But you gotta remember those come with a built-in AoC and ignoring re-rolls.
So roughly on par then. Fair enough. What do you mean by built in AoC? That means they get resistance against pen, right? By ignoring rerolls, do you mean that the opponent doesn't get rerolls to hit / wound.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I don't like how the Hekaton's wheels are seemingly the same size as the Sagitaur's, so they just look very undersized. I mean, just compare and contrast, they're proportionally much smaller compared to the body.
I know the theme seems to be NASA-punk, but I don't think it works so well for the Hekaton. The Sagitaur I can get behind because it is smaller, and could be argued to be like a recon vehicle/moon buggy. The Hekaton with its bubble canopies and wheels doesn't scream "fortress" to me, unless they were going for B-17 flying fortress. Maybe it would have looked better with treads instead of wheels? Maybe instead of giant bubble canopy in the front, have vision slits/sensors like the turrets already have?
In some ways it is, but...yeah. The wheels take away from the "fortress" feel of it.
It would have been better with treads, yeah, but I sort of understand why they went with wheels; they were going for the moon buggy look. Don't NASA vehicles have treads too though?
So roughly on par then. Fair enough. What do you mean by built in AoC? That means they get resistance against pen, right?
By ignoring rerolls, do you mean that the opponent doesn't get rerolls to hit / wound.
They all have void armour (haven't found a datasheet without it).
