Bullockist wrote: It is not even past the time the miniatures were supposed to be delivered. If they want to take a holiday that is up to them.
You know wave 1 was supposed to ship in September? We haven't even seen renders for 80% of the wave 1 miniatures. But, yes, people are entitled to take holidays, genuinely.
If they simply said that they'd answer all our questions secretly over e-mail and not out in the open and also announced that they planned to take a short break to recharge, fine.
But the whole "It's been close to a month, WE ARE STILL BLOWN AWAY BY THE RESULTS OF THIS KS CAMPAIGN AND WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR ALL THE LIKES AND SHARES, also we were on a vacation and here's a bunch more paragraphs of a lot of vapid words and promises with nothing to show for it!" really got to quite a few folks I think.
Alpharius wrote: But continuously poking the people who are....upset...and with an ice cream cone, no less, well, that's just bad form.
Would you say it's as bad form as the people who post in the thread that they did not pledge and are simply following the thread for entertainment? Because, to be honest, those people have much more of a laughing at us rather than with us vibe to me.
Alpharius wrote: But continuously poking the people who are....upset...and with an ice cream cone, no less, well, that's just bad form.
Would you say it's as bad form as the people who post in the thread that they did not pledge and are simply following the thread for entertainment? Because, to be honest, those people have much more of a laughing at us rather than with us vibe to me.
Some have expressed sympathy. And, to be fair to them, this thread does offer some entertainment.
Alpharius wrote: But continuously poking the people who are....upset...and with an ice cream cone, no less, well, that's just bad form.
Would you say it's as bad form as the people who post in the thread that they did not pledge and are simply following the thread for entertainment? Because, to be honest, those people have much more of a laughing at us rather than with us vibe to me.
Kind of depends, and I can really only speak for myself. I didn't pledge, but that was mainly because I really only wanted a handful of models and the pricing just didn't work out to be worthwhile with the delays I knew would be coming and the unknown "waves" of such things. However, I think RH does some excellent work in miniatures, and I initially kept up with this thread regularly hoping for real updates because I would love to have a squad or two for Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, or even just normal Stormtroopers for my Steel Legion army. So in other words, I don't have any skin in the game, but I am watching for actual news because the product still interests me.
However, I've also seen that RH will say "We are doing X!" and then not do X, which is really what makes people "mad" in this thread from my observations. If they wanted to be silent, I don't think too many people would be enormously annoyed; concerned perhaps but not really annoyed. It's more that they say something will be done at a certain time, don't stick to that timeframe, then act shocked when their backers try to hold them accountable for what they volunteered (i.e. - "We will post an update Thursday!") to be doing. The failure to keep to their own self-imposed deadlines is really what seems to account for the 20% of shameful negativity mixed in with the 80% jokes, at least that's how I see it.
I do have to say that their behavior in that regard has made me very unlikely to back their other projects in a KS fashion, though obviously at the retail setting the quality will be the decider and I'm quietly confident that they will meet expectations there. They do good work, and I hope they succeed because there's always a place in any market for companies that do good work. However, my KS money will be directed elsewhere which is probably of no real loss to them in the long-view anyway.
To be fair I didn't pledge and I post in this thread laughing but it's certainly not at the backers. It's at the silliness of the company. I was put off from the start with the way they handled the first surge and their stretch goals and it only got worse for me from there.
Watching this thread makes me chuckle at some genuinely funny posts. Nothing to do with laughing at the people posting unless those people are actually employees of Raging Heroes
I pulled out of this KS at the last minute as I felt the few models I wanted didn't justify the cost + wait time.
I follow this thread because my main interest is in their Dark Elf KS (whenever that is) and I wanted to see how RH deal with things Post- KS. This thread has been a great source of information in that regard (I will be staying well away from their next KS!) but I do have sympathy for the folks that did pledge and are suffering through the post-KS tumblr/Twitter-weaned comms that RH seem intent on pushing..
Yea, just to be clear, I have all the sympathy in the world for you guys. If I had nearly as much spare cash as I had sympathy, I would be right in the same place you folks are.
I don't just sympathize with your disappointment and frustration, however. I find your snark and over all humorous (if cutting) analysis and discussion of the situation most pleasing.
Even the most charitable view of RH behavior has to admit they made a LOT of promises during the campaign they couldn't keep, or at least a lot of statements that were less than 80% accurate. Their responses to people calling them on that have been really defensive and bitchy. All told, you gents have demonstrated a fair bit of faith and patience with the situation.
So carry on, good sirs! I originally showed up to oggle pretty models and berate myself for not selling a kidney to fund a pledge, but I stay to see you chaps slogging through with a grin and a joke.
Likewise, I had over two hundred quid in until the last day, when I got cold feet, mostly due to raging heroes themselves. I stay in the thread out of sympathy, and because, well, I'm rather fond of Internet snark, and this thread is a goldmine for it.
I genuinely hope all the backers get kick-ass models in a timeous fashion, but I'm glad I hooked my own pledge and spent it on infinity instead. I am developing genuine mistrust for raging heroes, due to their seeming inability to communicate with their backers, and think I'll avoid their products in the future, purely out of principle. There are plenty Corvus belli minis for me to get through...
Hell, I know for certain that the minis will be kickass and all that jizzle-jazzle, I've got the sisters (Ivanka in duplicate even) and their pooch on my shelf, those minis got me into this "adventure" in the first place, but the way things have been going so far, not sure if RH worthy of any future support.
Hey! Hey! Stop being so all friendly and upbeat. Negative! Shameful!
I keep coming back because I hope I'll get something insightful from Buzz, Azazel or Alex, really. And it feels like we're at least in good company on this thread. Although there is this one guy on the KS comments, Lapin Blanc, who's pretty level-headed about the whole thing. Not raging (no pun intended) but not pulling punches either.
I'm just curious what that PR expert will be able to come up with. Will he/she actually be able to post material without everything having to be veted before? Will he come up with more unrealistic deadline for the company? If either of those happen, then what would be the point?
Automatically Appended Next Post: And not to put a fine point on the irony of it... but Defiance actually put out WIPs pictures today. Fething Defiance.
Do I recall correctly that Raging Heroes was considered at the "boutique" end of the spectrum? Their troops are $3 each, but the new AvP KS has troops at $5 - $13 per mini. It's making Raging Heroes seem less horribly overpriced than I initially thought ; p However being *more* expensive than RH isn't doing much for my perception of AvP...
Truth be told, if RH did post a picture of one of them behind a desk with a giant pile of blow on it in front of them like Scarface, I'd feel OK about how my money was spent.
Yonan wrote: Do I recall correctly that Raging Heroes was considered at the "boutique" end of the spectrum? Their troops are $3 each, but the new AvP KS has troops at $5 - $13 per mini. It's making Raging Heroes seem less horribly overpriced than I initially thought ; p However being *more* expensive than RH isn't doing much for my perception of AvP...
Raging Heroes are about one tier above what I consider acceptable - goldsword pricing for basic grunts, both before and after discount. If $3 was the retail price and $2 by Kickstarter, I would have bought a ton instead of just a 5-woman sample.
AvP, on the other hand, is in what I call the "stupid expensive" price band, with a price of $5 per Colonial Marine even after the Kickstarter discount.
Bullockist wrote: I'm definitely feeling like a minority . I check for updates and such once a month, I don't really give a gak if there is one or not, I've paid my money and I'm getting miniatures, good looking miniatures.
To be constantly harping on about the same crap hoping for a different result seems to me to be an exercise in insanity. Different companies surprisingly are different. I'm fairly patient when it comes to KS , i trust I'll receive it when it is ready , I don't know what they are dealing with in regard to design, manufacture and logistics , and even if I did know through updates that wouldn't stop the weird negativity in this thread.
Why is it important to receive updates? You know the date for receiving the miniatures is going to be a while away
You do realise that according to RH in the KS, that wave 1 was supposed to have been shipped in September, don't you? That means the date to begin receiving the figures (according to RH, not us) was Sept-Oct.
and judging by the companies past you should have known this before jumping in. Being spoon fed pretty pictures every day or bits of useless info doesn't change anything, only one thing matters, receiving the miniatures , everything else is window dressing.
Seriously, some of you sound like a child asking it's mother for an ice cream. To be honest if i was raging heroes I wouldn't want to engage with you either.
Do you also realise that the figures and pledges being a la carte means we do need to see what they look like at some stage, right? That it's not just a case of being "spoon fed pretty pictures"?
You also understand that when RH posts "we will update tomorrow" and then takes 3 weeks to actually update, it's going to piss people off, right? And that if you say "we'll answer questions in the morning" and then disappear for three weeks, it's also going to piss people off, right?
I'm not sure what your life is like, but I know that in my job if I say I'm going to do something within a certain timeframe, I actually have to do it. It's something that those of us who act professionally in our work or even just courteously towards others in our personal world just have to deal with in life, you know? I know, it's shocking, amirite?
Really though, jumping into the thread, which at this point is mostly used for jokes - as befits RH's campaign - tojump into this thread just to post an angry tirade about how mean all of us twitter-weaned children are to RH is a bit of a waste of your time and doesn't exactly endear you. If you don't give a feth about updates, why are you posting here? You'll get all of the non-information from RH keeping you as non-updated as anyone else by just reading your KS backer emails. If you want to join in a sycophantic conversation about how awesome RH are, then maybe go post on their facebook or the KS comments or their delicious tumblr feed.
Now please do go and have a nice day. Be careful as well - don't let that vein in your temple explode. We'll carry on here making snarky jokes until out figures arrive from Christmas 2014 onwards. Feel free to join us again and have a laugh after you've taken a few deep breaths and calmed down.
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Bullockist wrote: Thing is i remember when this thread wasn't 80% joke and it WAS the same as now, with the same things being said.
Alpharius wrote: But continuously poking the people who are....upset...and with an ice cream cone, no less, well, that's just bad form.
Would you say it's as bad form as the people who post in the thread that they did not pledge and are simply following the thread for entertainment? Because, to be honest, those people have much more of a laughing at us rather than with us vibe to me.
gak, that's the only reason I'm following or participating in this thread right now. I hold no ill will for anyone joining in the joke. Even people like me who thought we had low expectations from RH on communication and timing have been blown away by just how poor it has actually been. The more people to have a laugh about it with here, the better. It stops me from becoming as angry at the people who pop in from time to time to "defend" RH.
Besides, this thread gives a lot more entertainment bang for the buck than something like Avatars of War.
Yonan wrote: Do I recall correctly that Raging Heroes was considered at the "boutique" end of the spectrum? Their troops are $3 each, but the new AvP KS has troops at $5 - $13 per mini. It's making Raging Heroes seem less horribly overpriced than I initially thought ; p However being *more* expensive than RH isn't doing much for my perception of AvP...
Raging Heroes are about one tier above what I consider acceptable - goldsword pricing for basic grunts, both before and after discount. If $3 was the retail price and $2 by Kickstarter, I would have bought a ton instead of just a 5-woman sample.
AvP, on the other hand, is in what I call the "stupid expensive" price band, with a price of $5 per Colonial Marine even after the Kickstarter discount.
At the quality level RH has provided me in the past, I don't see their pricing as too far off base personally.
KoganStyle wrote: I pulled out of this KS at the last minute as I felt the few models I wanted didn't justify the cost + wait time.
I follow this thread because my main interest is in their Dark Elf KS (whenever that is) and I wanted to see how RH deal with things Post- KS. This thread has been a great source of information in that regard
This is a really good point I did not consider when I made that previous post about "laughing with us vs at us". There is, in fact, great reason for many non-backers to follow this thread with great interest (Not that they need one, I'm not saying or implying that).
And yeah, the humor has helped a lot because really, the nature of kickstarter - the money is gone, it's not coming back, there are no refunds - means there is also no point in getting worked up about things anyway.
And not to put a fine point on the irony of it... but Defiance actually put out WIPs pictures today. Fething Defiance.
This turn of events has thrown my entire world view into question.
Anyway, I always pictured RH as exceptional artists... Although by the time we figure out what went wrong, they'll be sitting on a beach earning twenty percent.
Or maybe...
Anyway, I've recently received word from Maurie-Laure at RH and here is a preliminary video starring Mireille to help prepare RH's twitter-weaned malcontents loyal backers to understand the seminar.
Wehrkind wrote: Yea, just to be clear, I have all the sympathy in the world for you guys. If I had nearly as much spare cash as I had sympathy, I would be right in the same place you folks are.
I don't just sympathize with your disappointment and frustration, however. I find your snark and over all humorous (if cutting) analysis and discussion of the situation most pleasing.
Even the most charitable view of RH behavior has to admit they made a LOT of promises during the campaign they couldn't keep, or at least a lot of statements that were less than 80% accurate. Their responses to people calling them on that have been really defensive and bitchy. All told, you gents have demonstrated a fair bit of faith and patience with the situation.
So carry on, good sirs! I originally showed up to oggle pretty models and berate myself for not selling a kidney to fund a pledge, but I stay to see you chaps slogging through with a grin and a joke.
Ouze wrote: Truth be told, if RH did post a picture of one of them behind a desk with a giant pile of blow on it in front of them like Scarface, I'd feel OK about how my money was spent.
KoganStyle wrote: I pulled out of this KS at the last minute as I felt the few models I wanted didn't justify the cost + wait time.
I follow this thread because my main interest is in their Dark Elf KS (whenever that is) and I wanted to see how RH deal with things Post- KS. This thread has been a great source of information in that regard
This is a really good point I did not consider when I made that previous post about "laughing with us vs at us". There is, in fact, great reason for many non-backers to follow this thread with great interest (Not that they need one, I'm not saying or implying that).
And yeah, the humor has helped a lot because really, the nature of kickstarter - the money is gone, it's not coming back, there are no refunds - means there is also no point in getting worked up about things anyway.
I agree with all this. I have been following this to keep informed about how RH follows through, in case I had wanted to back a future campaign, and also for the humor, obviously
Sometimes I feel bad about people piling on, but I do think the vast majority of this is in jest, and it Does help folks deal with lack of updates / etc. In the end, I think (and really hope!) RH will deliver in spades, and I think most people here are still rooting for them to do so. Folks have invested a lot of money in this, after all, and they want the models to be good / a success!
Yeah, the last thing all of us wants is to have given money for nothing, obviously. That would be seriously twisted... but you can call me and we can arrange for a bank transfer, if you're that desperate to part with your money.
I'm just, again, shocked that Defiance might deliver before them.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Yeah, the last thing all of us wants is to have given money for nothing, obviously. That would be seriously twisted... but you can call me and we can arrange for a bank transfer, if you're that desperate to part with your money.
I'm just, again, shocked that Defiance might deliver before them.
I'm shocked by the idea that Defiance might actually deliver. I'll believe it when I see it.
I thought they were on their last legs after it came out that they hadn't paid Proxy.
I'll be completely dumbfounded if the minis are terrible sculpts and casts, but those WIPs don't look too promising, so no worries of that.
Sorry for contributing to off topic, but there's not alot happening on the RH end anyways.
I'll now return to your irregularly behind schedule programming (which in my case is reading but never commenting - I lurks even though I has an account).
Sometimes I feel bad about people piling on, but I do think the vast majority of this is in jest, and it Does help folks deal with lack of updates / etc. In the end, I think (and really hope!) RH will deliver in spades, and I think most people here are still rooting for them to do so. Folks have invested a lot of money in this, after all, and they want the models to be good / a success!
Piling onto RH? Nah, don't feel bad for them - feth 'em. It's all of their own making, after all.
Sometimes I feel bad about people piling on, but I do think the vast majority of this is in jest, and it Does help folks deal with lack of updates / etc. In the end, I think (and really hope!) RH will deliver in spades, and I think most people here are still rooting for them to do so. Folks have invested a lot of money in this, after all, and they want the models to be good / a success!
Piling onto RH? Nah, don't feel bad for them - feth 'em. It's all of their own making, after all.
Yes, we gave them 700K for the privilege of rather mild written abuse. I think it's par for the course. And no one (in here in even on the KS comments section) has used abusive language, that I know of.
Alpharius wrote: <-------------------- They wouldn't stand for this nonsense in China.
Lol, love the flag Alpharius
Mathieu, if you click "quote" on Azazel's post you'll see it's Dakka who forced him to be polite (rightfully so, this is supposed to be / trying to stay a family friendly site after all...)
Yeah, it took me awhile to notice that Dakka does that, so now I swear with aplomb, especially after seeing a mod command that people shouldn't get creative and write up their own alternatives in another thread and just swear properly so the filter would pick them up (yes, for reals). Though I do hit preview when using new or non-standard words. For instance, earlier today I found out that Richard Headleydoesn't get picked up, so had to modify that post, slightly.
It should be, based on what we've seen before, either the command boxes and a couple of heroines, or a dozen or so heroines that are planned for wave one. I'm leaning more towards the former, though either way there'll likely be pictures of dark elves or sisters tacked on the end at the demand of all those vocal fans.
That said, it's not something to get excited about right now. How many times have we been in this situation where they were just waiting on X or Y before posting an update?
Agreed, for all we know our hopes can be dashed as the update is postponed due to unforeseen consequences or we'll get more pics of stuff we've already seen, but pushed past that 80% perfection threshold into the yet to be seen 100% stage.
Kinda curious to see how the ever and eternally positive backers in their comments section are going to spin this one if it's another missed deadline.
The main theme will be it's only a soft deadline and it doesn't matter that it's been missed. As we'll all get some delicious figures soon (before the heat death of the universe).
Cross-posting this from the KS comments, I think (it's been a while...) that this covers the majority of my critiques;
In the interest of reminding about feedback (since it was offered a month ago), the following are the items that had struck me as in need of addressing (detailed more fully in the comments to update #77);
Iron Empire Heavy Troopers,
-It is incongruous (to say the least) that the IE heavy troopers have heavy, cumbersome armor everywhere EXCEPT over the vital organs in their torsos. Paradoxically the regular Troopers (with their segmented torso armor) end up being far better armored then their heavy counterparts.*
-There seems to be some consensus that the shoulder armor is, for lack of better terms, "flat featureless shoulder plates".
-They also seem to have lost the armored plates that protected their thighs in the concept art (another move that leaves them strangely less armored then their regular counterparts).
Kurganova Heavy Troopers,
-Overall very good, but they (again) suffer from overly large shoulder pads, to the point that they look ornamental rather then functional, on a model that is otherwise very practical.
Really looking forward to seeing the next iterations!
*N.B., it has been suggested that the "Heavy" refers to weapon load-out; this does not APPEAR to be the case, as the renders shown have both regular and heavy troopers with the same mix of weapons.
Well, the standard day is 54% done (French time) and there's no update yet. That said, I'd not expect one until at least 19:20 local time, for obvious reasons
but not of the wave 1 stuff which will still be in preparation
just to add fuel to the internet outrage
I still think they're going for a "Let's see how much gak we can get away with" prank.
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RoninXiC wrote: I'd realllllyyy like to see some actual miniatures. Sure, 3dprints would come first... but come on ... nothing since the beginning of the project?
Awwww... isn't that cute? One of the child soldiers appears to be smoking!
And regardless of the guaranteed "No! it's a lollypop!" response from RH, I reckon if you ask a couple of miniature-neutral people to look at the picture with no prompts, they'll tell you the same thing...
Creating our first batch of TGG Troopers as been a very enriching experience. And we are now implementing all the lessons we learned with them for the next batch of 25 Command Group Troopers. At the same time, we've been working on a big batch of Heroines and Special Characters. Today, we are showing you the firsts that are completely done, and more are on the way. In fact, many of them only need some polishing before being ready for their close-ups. That's the case, for example, with the Lulus. We are showing you 3 Lulus today, but the other 3 are very close to getting their final approval. You will also find below images of the sculpts for Vera, Volga, Keela, and Natasha.
Finally, here's an update on the Jailbirds and KST Artillery, showing you all the gun mounts.
Multi-part and posability for the Troops
There have been some questions about the posability of the multi-part troops, and about how the parts are split. The best way to answer this is probably to show you an image.
Each trooper is made of one pair of legs, one torso, one head, a right arm (in most cases holding a rifle), and a left arm with its hand posed to accommodate the other (firing) end of the rifle.
We basically tried all possible options many options on how to split and assemble the two hands and the rifle. What was obvious was that if we wanted to preserve the posing and the dynamic attitude of the character, we should have the rifle attached to the right arm. Then, by keeping the left hand attached to the left arm, it gives you a little bit more latitude in positioning the left hand on the rifle. And so, this creates more mix-and-match options.
Each trooper also has access to 2 “packs” of accessories (such as grenades, knives, binoculars) that you can attach to her belt in most cases.
And as previously mentioned, each box of 5 troopers includes additional heads and weapons.
All this will allow for maximum variety in posing and customising your army. Below are a few examples of TGG troopers made by mixing and matching various parts included in the kits.
Heavy IE design
There was some discussion about a couple of design elements on the Iron Empire Heavy Troopers. Namely, some people would have like to see the shoulder pads decorated, for example with some insignia or some sort of modern heraldry. This was a pertinent comment and proposal, but please remember that what you see now is the very beginning of the TGG. There will be more troop types, and more "special" or "customized" versions of some of the basic troops we are releasing through this kickstarter. We are just at the beginning of the TGG adventure and so, obviously, we are starting with the more "common" versions of these soldiers. So rest assured that we have this in mind for the future.
Another thread of comments was about the fact that these heavy troopers do not have visible abdominal armour plating. Well, there are several reasons for this: we wanted to keep them slimmer at the waist to preserve a somewhat more feminine silhouette. And there are also fluff-related reasons: you could compare the Iron Empire Heavies to American football players who have very heavy protection on the top part of their body, because they use their upper body to ram their adversaries, and light protection on the lower body in order to run fast. Actually, the IE Heavies' shoulder armours generate a force field that is used to ram their adversaries or obstacles when they charge. So these troops are used for close combat strikes where shock factor and manoeuvrability are key.
But the last, most valuable reason for us is that we want the TGG to have a pulp feel. We chose to use super big stereotypes like WWII-German-looking-zombies-brought-back-from-the-dead-by-pseudo-Egyptian-magic, and then to add to this several layers of deeper and more mature meaning. For example, we looked at the human side of this kind of world through the tragic destiny of characters such as Nertha. But let's not forget that we want to keep a somewhat B-movie, Tarantino-esque feel to it and so, yes, there will be some crazy stuff, like a baby hippo carrying beer, or a dog smoking cigars, or heavy troopers with light midriff armour. And rest assured that there will also be bigger and heavier armours too
A special treat for KST enthusiasts
As we explained in their background details, the Kurgan culture is somewhat schizophrenic. Having to deal with very profound societal and economical changes in a very short time, they are now trying to reconcile the best aspects of their ancient traditions with the amazing potential of their newfound technological genius. While the government hierarchy and the Kurganova family itself has endeavoured to banish the old ways, they have nevertheless kept in place ancient military protocols and institutions that seem somewhat removed from what the bulk of the Kurgan army have become.
The most obvious example of this is the fact that the Old Guard still acts as the Praetorian Army Corps and is in charge, among other things, of the Kurganova family protection.
The Old Guard is made up of Boyars and Berserkers. The Boyars are all descendants of ancient Kurgan noble blood lines. They are elite forces steeped in traditions and arcane protocols. Since they are seen at all formal events as guardians of the Kurganova family, one might make dismiss them as window dressing. One couldn't be more wrong. Think of them as the lictors of Ancient Rome, or the Vatican Swiss Guard.
Now, if the Boyar are the living embodiment of discipline and order, the Berserkers are their exact opposites and the contempt between the two groups is common knowledge. When the Kurgan Civil Wars erupted, when mafia war bands began using their 'were' powers, when the entire population became enmeshed in battle and blood baths, some of the Kurgans became completely possessed by their werewolf form. As their entire society crumbled, a few of the more bloodthirsty combatants began to sense that their world was heading towards complete obliteration, and they turned towards the last remaining bastions of order, mostly represented at that point by the Kurganova family, to offer their help and support in trying to salvage what could be saved of the Kurgan culture and people. Nobody knows what made these crazy creatures suddenly realise what they had become. A legend whispers that the Wolf Mother herself came in their dreams and brought them back to reason. But no one has ever confirmed or denied this. The Berserkers secrets stay with the Berserkers.
Their exact role in the last hours of the Civil War remains obscure, and it is believed that to end the bloodshed, they has to shed much blood... Once the Civil Wars were over, they felt that the blood lust was too strong in them to return to society and that they would never be able to fully control the primal rage that burned inside of them. They could neither be humans as that would have left them without a vital part of them, nor could they be werewolves as in this form, they would only bring chaos and destruction. So they asked the Kurgan scientists for a way to stay forever in-between these 2 states.
And today, with their cybernetic implants and titanium claws and jaws, they may look human, but they are as deadly as the most feral werewolves. Although they may be the black sheep of the Kurgan forces, they are the most dedicated and loyal forces the Kurganovas can have.
Now, we don't have any specific dates in mind for the release of these miniatures. So, why are we showing you this today?
Well, these characters were some of the things we had in mind if the Kickstarter had done even better than it already did. And while, until now, we had not had the opportunity to show them to you, we though it would bring a new light on the KST forces, and might help you envision whether the KST forces are for you or not, and how assembling/picking different types of troops might help you create an army that really suits your persona and tastes.
As you can imagine, in the same vein, the Iron Empire will get more Aegyptian-themed 'stuff' (characters, troops, background, etc.) and the Jailbirds, more crazy Mad-Max/Tank-Girl 'stuff' in the future as well.
What does it means for the upcoming Game?
When the game comes out, it will allow you to create a “themed” version of each army. We intend the game to be as close as possible to the fluff so that, if you want, you can make a rebel Kurgan force led by Svetlana and bent on the old traditions (with the Yagas, the Werewolves, etc.) or, on the contrary, a “modern” KST force full of mechs, bikes and other mechanical / tech devices, or perhaps even an elite force led by the Kurganova sisters and their father and made mostly of elite troops like the Boyars.
Also, some of you have asked us about what they should buy, what kind of troops, how many heroes, etc. in order to have an evenly balanced core force for when when the game comes out. Well, here's the good news: Our goal is that the game lets you play the minis that you like!
Indeed, don't you hate it when there's a great-looking mini plagued with poor stats, or a unit that would be so cool to play if only it were not systematically crushed every time you put it on the table? Well, our plan is to get rid of this problem.
How can we do this ? By approaching the attribution of the character or unit stats in a new way. We can't guarantee that it will solve every problem of game balance, but it will make a significant change for sure.
Also the game will be quite scalable, so if, for example, you want to play small games with mostly heroines, or large games with tons of troops, you will be able to do so...
The Dark Elves...
We were very excited to get so much positive feedback on the Dark Elves concepts, and on the prospect of focusing our future Kickstarter on the Dark Elves and the Sisters of Eternal Mercy. To be honest, we were not quite sure that doing a DE Kickstarter was the right thing to do next, but apparently, you are telling us that we should not hesitate.
So, as previously explained, this project will include both Fantasy and SF versions of our Dark Elves and of our Sisters of Eternal Mercy. But it will have to wait a bit, because right now, we are putting all of our energy into delivering the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy.
Bring on the Cyber-zombie Unit!
The Cyber-Zombie Unit was a stretch goal that did not quite manage to get unlocked before the end of the Kickstarter. Some of you asked that we take into account the Kickstarter pledges that came via Paypal to see if that could unlock it. So we looked at the numbers. However, it turned out that the Paypal pledges not quite managed to make up for the $50,000 or so that failed to be collected on the Kickstarter itself :(
Nevertheless, many of you have been writing us to ask for them, and we very much wanted to make them available to you Kickstarter pledgers. So we got the concept artist to finalize them, and we've now placed them in the production queue. However, do bear in mind that at this point, they are at the end of the queue, so they might be the last ones to be done.
Where is the Pledge Manager?
We chose not to make the Pledge Manager available yet because most of you said to see a maximum number of sculpts before having to make their choices, and that indeed seemed to be the right way to go about it. So we obliged, and focused on the sculpts.
In addition, making the TGG available in more than one wave makes things rather more complex in terms of logistics and pledge management for us. And yet, because of the wave release, we did not want to send you just a simple Excel sheet and leave you with that. On the contrary, we decided to set up something akin to a full-featured web-store that will be open exclusively to you, Kickstarter pledger. It is intended to let you easily allocate your pledge money as you like, and for each separate wave, if you so desire. It will also allow you to choose to be shipped all at once, or in several waves via the Drop Ship Programme or by adding shipping fees.
I better not go into more details about it right now as I'm still in the process of testing its various functionalities to make sure that everything works smoothly.
Behind the scenes
As mentioned in our previous update, we are adding a new team member, and one of his jobs will be to spy on us while we are working on the TGG and update you on what's going on behind the scenes, ranging from serious sculpting work to Raging's staff antics after an all-nighter...
He is coming onboard next Monday!
The TGG Webinars on Art Direction and 3D Sculpting are upon us...
Who can attend?
The webinars are available to those who signed up for it (for a 120$ pledge), as well as those who have selected the Connoisseur Box or the Connoisseur Add-on. We already have your contact info.
Each Webinar will run for 2 1/2 hours (about 2 hours + about 30 mins for your questions), so you all get a total of 5 hours. You are entitled to one session of Art Direction and one session of 3D Sculpting.
We've outlined below what we are going to talk about. If there's something you were really hoping to see covered in either of these webinars, and that you don't see here, please let us know and we'll try to include it.
Key elements of the ART DIRECTION Webinar:
This Webinar will discuss how to develop the look and feel of an army or race, and then, how to create characters for this army.
For this, we will concentrate as much on visual elements as on stories and background. We will use the Iron Empire as an example.
We will explain how we developed the main concepts that are used as a base for this army, such as the German World War II and Prussian World War I influence, as well as the Iron Empire's relationship with life and with death, the structure and myths of their society, etc., and how we aimed at creating contrasts between all these elements to achieve a rich and exciting tapestry.
Then, we'll also feature a Case Study of Doctor von X: where she came from, how her looks evolved, and more... We'll show you how we create a Mood Board for each character, mixing the personality of the character with many references (historical, visual, etc.). We will also share with you how we aim to get inspiration from references that are way outside the world of miniature gaming and Sci-Fi.
Then, we will show how Posing is key to expressing the character's personality and intent.
Finally, we'll discuss the production constraints and how to manage them (for example, creating hairstyles that will work for multi-part characters) as well as the challenges of translating 2D concepts to 3D. Some characters look good in 2D but their pose makes them look silly in 3D, moulding/casting issues sometime prevent us from being absolutely true to a concept, sometimes the concept artist uses 2D perspective tricks that we cannot reproduce in 3D, etc.
Key elements for the 3D SCUPLTING Webinar:
In this webinar, we will begin by covering the basic tools that are needed to create miniatures in Zbrush. Then, we will focus on the specific details and know-how related to creating small-scale miniatures with the intent of 3D-printing them. Afterwards, if you want to learn more about specific features or uses of the software, you'll find online plenty of tutorials showing you how to create an anatomy from scratch, how to create a render of your character, etc.
Of course, a 2-hour webinar won't turn you into a 3D miniature sculptor, but we will endeavour to acquaint you with the process while at the same time answering as many questions as we can since we know that some of you will probably be traditional sculptors with a certain level of experience, while others will be completely new to sculpting and yet others will be quite well-versed in 3D software.
The Basics
The strangeness of the Zbrush interface: how to create a new document and start sculpting in 3D (edit mode, polymesh primitives, ...), what is a Ztool, what are subtools, and how to save them. Manipulating the object on 3D space (action line, zooming, panning, append, etc.). Why you need a graphic tablet to sculpt.
Basic Zbrush tools
Most of our sculpting work is made with less than 10 tools. We will show you which ones to use for which effect.
How to sculpt for 3D printed small-scale miniatures
Starting from a standard body mesh, we will show you the steps required to create a torso armour and shoulder plates, and here, we'll especially focus on the constraints of 3D printing and small scale details. We'll also talk about mould-making and casting, and we will explain how to avoid undercuts which prevent miniatures from being castable. We'll also discuss how the perception of size, bulk and detailing dramatically changes when we switch from seeing the miniature in full-size on a computer screen to shrinking it to the actual product size, and why any 28mm sword must always be the size of a tree trunk! This will also bring us to the very strange-looking body proportions of 28mm miniatures, and why you somewhat need them to be that way.
Posing
Throughout this webinar, you will realize that contrary to traditional sculpting, a big part of 3D sculpting is done in a neutral pose. So we'll show you how to use the Zbrush tools to actually pose an anatomy and then, how to dress it with the accessories and clothing that were prepared beforehand.
Preparing a sculpt for 3D printing
For many people, this is often the most obscure part of the work. In fact, once you've finished your sculpt, there is tedious but essential work still required. We probably won't have time to cover all the details, but we'll show you the key jobs that are required to prepare a file for the 3D printer.
So, this is going to be a pretty dense and technical webinar, rather than a showcase of our sculptors' artistic abilities: there is A LOT of info to be covered in these 2 ½ hours... This webinar is designed to help kickstart you if 3D sculpting miniatures is of interest to you, or to get a better feel and understanding of some of what goes into the 3D creation of a Raging Heroes miniature.
Details and Presenters
The webinars will be presented in the English language. You will be able to submit questions in writing during the seminar.
To attend the webinars, you will need a decent internet connexion, a computer and a web browser. There will be no software to install. If you prefer to attend the webinar using a tablet, you will still require an internet connexion, and you will have to download a (free) app. We will give you all the necessary details prior to the webinars.
The Art Direction webinar will be presented by Benoit Guerville. The 3D Sculpting webinar will be presented by Benoit Guerville and Jean-Romain Barrau.
Benoit is the co-founder and Art Director of Raging Heroes. He is well-versed in conduction seminars and classes. Among other things, he taught Art Direction, Photoshop and Matte Painting for several years at ArtFx, France's leading School of Visual Effects. His students now work in top VFX studios worldwide; if you've seen a blockbuster movie in the last couple of years, there's a good chance that at least one of Benoit's students was part of the VFX team. Benoit has also written for many magazines and spoke at world-class VFX conferences next to VFX supervisors of films like Avatar, Harry Potter, etc.
Jean-Romain (JR, pronounced jee-air) is the Sculpting Supervisor for Raging Heroes. He started as a miniature enthusiast in charge of hand-retouching the Raging Heroes 3D prints. He then became a regular freelance 3D artist with us but he also very quickly grasped all the various aspects of the 3D production of wargaming miniatures. He now oversees all the freelancers we work with all around the world, and every single Raging Heroes sculpt now crosses his path at least once prior to being 3D printed.
Who can attend?
The webinars are available to those who signed up for it (for a 120$ pledge), as well as those who have selected the Connoisseur Box or the Connoisseur Add-on. We already have your contact info, and you will receive an email so that you can join in.
If, however, you are not signed up but would like to increase your pledge to do so, please contact us directly as soon as possible.
The Webinar dates
There are 2 different dates for each Webinar, with different times in order to accommodate a worldwide audience (follow the links below to see the times in your country). Just remember to bookmark your Calendar for the dates and times that work best for you. We will contact you soon so with the instructions so that you can join in.
Art Direction Webinar
Saturday November 23, from 23h00 to 1h30 (Paris/France time)
or
Saturday November 30, from 16h00 to 18h30 (Paris/France time)
3D Sculpting Webinar
Sunday November 24, from 23h00 to 1h30 (Paris/France time)
or
Sunday December 01, from 16h00 to 18h30 (Paris/France time)
Quite pleased it sounds as if we'll end up with a similar situation to the two Mierce KS projects where we get a webstore to browse, spending out pledge when we've seen the sculpts....
It should work well for them too as Mierce has had loads of extra cash from their backers as more cool stuff has been sculpted
Indeed it has. Glad to see that those webinars are finally happening, means that the folks who pledged for that are no longer kept in the dark about the whole thing.
Well, at least they are now clearly stating that some models are completely done, yay. Also..
This makes me happy.
But other than that, nothing really solid as to a release date or whatnot..
Now that's an update. I really like the looks of the minis and it was good to see one in full multi-part form. If these are cast well, I'm going to be very happy with the products - as expected from these guys whose products I already own are great.
Natasha (always been one of my favourite fem names), Vera and Volga all look great. The Kurganova were-stuff doesn't do too much for me but I'm fine skipping that aspect of them, the non-were stuff of theirs looks great, can't decide if that's my favourite or the Iron Empire stuff.
On the other hand, the other figures look great, but that's the one thing that was never going to be in doubt. Now the question is how will the production models turn out - and what exactly will the final material be? Restic?
Azazelx wrote: Now the question is how will the production models turn out - and what exactly will the final material be? Restic?
This has been my only concern about this KSTBH. We know they do good metals, so anything else is unproven. Restic is generally not ideal, though if they can get their hands on the new Mantic restic formula I think I'd be really happy. They're not doing the troops in hard plastic are they? Even if there's a slight loss of detail I'd still probably prefer that, but I'm not fussed so long as they make it work well.
Some of the details look great. Kudos for that. I'm interested to see how the Berzerkers look in "clay".
Some of the stuff they said about digital sculpting is...exaggerated. Additionally, most of the information that they will be imparting about 3D sculpting is available for free on Pixologic's website.
Also I note that they still have no idea how humans actually run. Amusing.
Well, colour me impressed. They've actually updated within the time frame that they set for themselves. Only just mind, based on the time in France, but within the day. Lets hope that the new guy can keep this going.
Quite pleased it sounds as if we'll end up with a similar situation to the two Mierce KS projects where we get a webstore to browse, spending out pledge when we've seen the sculpts....
It should work well for them too as Mierce has had loads of extra cash from their backers as more cool stuff has been sculpted
Yeah, I remember the candy cigarettes, they even had red colouring at one end. Though they were more the size of rollups rather than regular cigs, even for a small kid. The one that the Lulu is sporting looks more like a standard cigarette to me. Not an issue really, but certainly not a lollipop at anything other than a swift glance.
As for the PM, it does sound like they're taking the sensible route. Just hope it's as smooth as the Mierce one was.
With regards to the other renders, the heroines look good for the most part. Though none of them were on my list and the pose of Vera (IE standard) still looks a little off to me, but that's probably more to do with the angle in the image than anything else.
The legged artillery is looking better now it's been rendered, though I'm still leaning towards picking up the command boxes for the heavy weapons. More flexibility for the same cost. Does depend on what their weapons turn out like, of course.
The new Old Guard art looks interesting, more so the Boyar than the Kurgan. As does the finished art for the cyber zombies. I could see the latter getting some cross purpose use, just depends on how static they are. If they're interchangeable like the regular troopers then I could easily see them being put together as chaos cultists / crazy ad mech infantry.
Only thing I'm not overly impressed by is the response to the comments on the design of the IE heavies. Given that this was a miniatures only KS, billed as such by RH repeatedly, the miniatures shouldn't need a fluff reason for not being really heavily armoured. If they'd been called IE Shock Troopers, or something similar, then I could agree that the argument they're using would be acceptable. Heavy Infantry though just makes you think of heavy armour all over. Though I'd argue that a well placed bony shoulder would get people out of the way even without a power field around it.
Edit:
Forgot about the breakdown image. Bit of a shame about the guns being attached to the hand like that, but not a big issue.
The quality of the mini designs was never in question though, you could still be justified in not backing due to poor casting, extreme delays or other problems.
Well, the time spent typing up commentary was certainly well spent!
Something very interesting in this "sprue" shot;
Here, there appear to be the thigh armor plates that are in the concept art, but do not appear to be in the previous posed shots (nor on the trooper shown below, far right).
Then, of course, there is... this;
"you could compare the Iron Empire Heavies to American football players who have very heavy protection on the top part of their body, because they use their upper body to ram their adversaries, and light protection on the lower body in order to run fast. Actually, the IE Heavies' shoulder armours generate a force field that is used to ram their adversaries or obstacles when they charge."
Taarnak wrote: Some of the details look great. Kudos for that. I'm interested to see how the Berzerkers look in "clay".
Some of the stuff they said about digital sculpting is...exaggerated. Additionally, most of the information that they will be imparting about 3D sculpting is available for free on Pixologic's website.
Also I note that they still have no idea how humans actually run. Amusing.
~Eric
I was going to say, I've dabbled, not so much with ZBrush, but more with Sculptris, but... $120 for 2 1/2 hours seems awfully steep for this. I mean, I can direct one to a pretty good (and completely free) digital sculpting guide... Eh, different strokes I suppose.
Taarnak wrote: Some of the details look great. Kudos for that. I'm interested to see how the Berzerkers look in "clay".
Some of the stuff they said about digital sculpting is...exaggerated. Additionally, most of the information that they will be imparting about 3D sculpting is available for free on Pixologic's website.
Also I note that they still have no idea how humans actually run. Amusing.
~Eric
I was going to say, I've dabbled, not so much with ZBrush, but more with Sculptris, but... $120 for 2 1/2 hours seems awfully steep for this. I mean, I can direct one to a pretty good (and completely free) digital sculpting guide... Eh, different strokes I suppose.
Yeah, the running poses are... odd.
I would love to know about that sculpting guide. I've started using zBrush, and every little bit of info helps.
Taarnak wrote: Some of the details look great. Kudos for that. I'm interested to see how the Berzerkers look in "clay".
Some of the stuff they said about digital sculpting is...exaggerated. Additionally, most of the information that they will be imparting about 3D sculpting is available for free on Pixologic's website.
Also I note that they still have no idea how humans actually run. Amusing.
~Eric
I was going to say, I've dabbled, not so much with ZBrush, but more with Sculptris, but... $120 for 2 1/2 hours seems awfully steep for this. I mean, I can direct one to a pretty good (and completely free) digital sculpting guide... Eh, different strokes I suppose.
Yeah, the running poses are... odd.
I would love to know about that sculpting guide. I've started using zBrush, and every little bit of info helps.
~Eric
Happy to oblige!
Here is a very nice video primer that uses Sculptris, but I'm not sure how much things have changed but my understanding is that ZBrush integrates a lot of Scuptris functionality.
There is a great 4 part visual guide by Hector Moran (one of the main Kingdom Death sculptors) on how he did the Allison (alternate Twilight Knight) miniature, part 1 here. He classifies it as "middle to advanced as far as required zbrush knowledge", so quite beyond my skill level at the moment. That page also has links to a lot of other useful guides on deviantArt (which has a few pretty active 3d sculpting groups).
Azazelx wrote: Awwww... isn't that cute? One of the child soldiers appears to be smoking!
And regardless of the guaranteed "No! it's a lollypop!" response from RH, I reckon if you ask a couple of miniature-neutral people to look at the picture with no prompts, they'll tell you the same thing...
This comes to mind...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Desubot wrote: I swear the last berserker looks like she has a mustache. i cant un seen.
Women need to keep just as warm as men in winter. Leave them be. And menopause can be hard. <---These are meant to be jokes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They want to justify the heavy troopers the way they do, fine. I mean, sure, If I were to charge into volleys of fire coming my way, I would probably want to have as much armour on my forward arc. And since the setting seems not to lack in ranged weapons, one would probably question the validity of charging in the first place. Because if you have force fields that allow you to charge safely into enemy lines... they could protect you while you calmly and safely shoot from a distance.
I don't know... I'm not planning on getting their game, so it just means that I might get a few of them, one day, but not right now. I prefer the regulars at this point.
Overall I like the new art they've shown, and it was nice to see that multi-part might mean something more than "just put the pieces together this way" like some models from other manufacturers seem to be of late.
Some aesthetic choices I wouldn't have gone with, mostly already covered, but the technical execution of them all seems solid. The Iron Empire girls still haven't been ruled out for eventual service to the Golden Throne in a small capacity.
The best part though was matching deeds to words and getting this chock-full-of-info update out (more or less) when they said they would. Hopefully that's a trend that continues for the backers.
RiTides wrote: If someone attending the webinar would record it, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it! Can't hurt to ask, right
"If you liked it, you should have put a ring on it" is probably going to be the response to that.
Hey, there are tons of screen capturing programs and if someone wanted to share, I can return the favor (as I own a 3D printer, a Form 1)
Just thought I'd ask . I'm interested in some of some of the info about preparing models for 3d printing. Obviously, that means I'm interested in the 3D Sculpting webinar, not the Art Direction one.
I.e., record the webinar for me so that I can study it in detail and learn from it, and I return the favor by doing some 3D printing for you . With how dense the material is they've listed out below, I think it would only be useful to someone if they recorded it, anyway. There's no way they're going to retain all that information in one go!
Again, just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask, if no one's interested I understand... but I would definitely be willing to return the favor!
Key elements for the 3D SCUPLTING Webinar:
In this webinar, we will begin by covering the basic tools that are needed to create miniatures in Zbrush. Then, we will focus on the specific details and know-how related to creating small-scale miniatures with the intent of 3D-printing them. Afterwards, if you want to learn more about specific features or uses of the software, you'll find online plenty of tutorials showing you how to create an anatomy from scratch, how to create a render of your character, etc.
Of course, a 2-hour webinar won't turn you into a 3D miniature sculptor, but we will endeavour to acquaint you with the process while at the same time answering as many questions as we can since we know that some of you will probably be traditional sculptors with a certain level of experience, while others will be completely new to sculpting and yet others will be quite well-versed in 3D software.
The Basics
The strangeness of the Zbrush interface: how to create a new document and start sculpting in 3D (edit mode, polymesh primitives, ...), what is a Ztool, what are subtools, and how to save them. Manipulating the object on 3D space (action line, zooming, panning, append, etc.). Why you need a graphic tablet to sculpt.
Basic Zbrush tools
Most of our sculpting work is made with less than 10 tools. We will show you which ones to use for which effect.
How to sculpt for 3D printed small-scale miniatures
Starting from a standard body mesh, we will show you the steps required to create a torso armour and shoulder plates, and here, we'll especially focus on the constraints of 3D printing and small scale details. We'll also talk about mould-making and casting, and we will explain how to avoid undercuts which prevent miniatures from being castable. We'll also discuss how the perception of size, bulk and detailing dramatically changes when we switch from seeing the miniature in full-size on a computer screen to shrinking it to the actual product size, and why any 28mm sword must always be the size of a tree trunk! This will also bring us to the very strange-looking body proportions of 28mm miniatures, and why you somewhat need them to be that way.
Posing
Throughout this webinar, you will realize that contrary to traditional sculpting, a big part of 3D sculpting is done in a neutral pose. So we'll show you how to use the Zbrush tools to actually pose an anatomy and then, how to dress it with the accessories and clothing that were prepared beforehand.
Preparing a sculpt for 3D printing
For many people, this is often the most obscure part of the work. In fact, once you've finished your sculpt, there is tedious but essential work still required. We probably won't have time to cover all the details, but we'll show you the key jobs that are required to prepare a file for the 3D printer.
So, this is going to be a pretty dense and technical webinar, rather than a showcase of our sculptors' artistic abilities: there is A LOT of info to be covered in these 2 ½ hours... This webinar is designed to help kickstart you if 3D sculpting miniatures is of interest to you, or to get a better feel and understanding of some of what goes into the 3D creation of a Raging Heroes miniature.
Details and Presenters
The webinars will be presented in the English language. You will be able to submit questions in writing during the seminar.
To attend the webinars, you will need a decent internet connexion, a computer and a web browser. There will be no software to install. If you prefer to attend the webinar using a tablet, you will still require an internet connexion, and you will have to download a (free) app. We will give you all the necessary details prior to the webinars.
The Art Direction webinar will be presented by Benoit Guerville. The 3D Sculpting webinar will be presented by Benoit Guerville and Jean-Romain Barrau.
AlexHolker wrote: That's not HIPS. And the justification for the light armour on the heavy infantry is stupid.
Of course it is. "We think they look cooler" is all they needed to say, essentially. After all, if you backed RH's KS for the realistic female warriors, you're clearly doing it wrong. RH does cool-but-comic-book-sexualised female figures. It's their raison d'être. For something more realistic, that's where Vic's (upcoming) female troops come into play.
Oh yeah, the Lulus. Remember when the answer to "Kids with guns? Child Soldiers???" was met with "Non, non! Look! See the ends of their guns? Dart guns! See? See?
I was a little confused about the new concept art thrown up. Are the Boyars and Berserkers late additions to the KS? Or just artwork of coming-sometime-later models? The Boyars look pretty dope, but the berserkers just don't tickle my pickle.
The Lulus could be morally justifiable without all the bs, depending on the nature of the enemy. If either the Kurganovas or the Iron Empire are unwilling to follow the rules of war concerning the treatment of civilians arming the Lulus doesn't make them targets, it just means they can fight back.
I originally had no interest tin the he lulus cause I showed up to this party for hot action LADY-EEES....but...I have to admit...the one holding the cat is kinda adorable.....
AlexHolker wrote: The Lulus could be morally justifiable without all the bs, depending on the nature of the enemy. If either the Kurganovas or the Iron Empire are unwilling to follow the rules of war concerning the treatment of civilians arming the Lulus doesn't make them targets, it just means they can fight back.
Well, the Iron Empire at least is heavily implied to make use of weapons that turn living people into cyber-zombies, and I think that the background "in game"* for the large size Jailbird character is that she's an unwilling recipient of Kurganova bio-experiments. So it kinda makes a kind of every schoolgirl with a bamboo spear total war sense, but it's still a jarringly ugly idea for a game that now has heavy armored "football line-women".
*As an aside, while RH seems to be constantly on the verge of flying off in 5 different directions at once (wanna hear about the next two KS campaigns? How about we show you 7 new pieces of concept art... nothing to do with this campaign, but isn't it shiney?!), the references to their "upcoming game" just leave me shaking my head. Let's be honest here, people want these figures mostly for use in other games, and so having design explanations based on their crazy in-universe background just means you have figures that are less able to be plugged into other games. Who knows, maybe that is what they are going for.
Love the IE heavy troopers as they are, despite their lack of practicality - for me they are great INQ stormtroopers. I'm also very pleased with the mix and match ability of the troops.
I just need more of the command groups on show!
I like the lulus as sculpts, but wouldn't buy them.
The Boyars look great, the berserkers not so much. If only they would learn to stand/run/pose properly.
Can someone explain to me why so many of the raging ladies are so severely pigeon-toed? It seems like every other action lady has her feet twisted inward to an excruciating degree, and it doesn't look cool or sexy.
They are very nice (digital) sculpts, and very cute. And they were clearly conceived as a bunch of Counts-as-Ratling-Sniper figures, but I'm just uncomfortable with them in the same way (though for different content) that I'm also uncomfortable with Brother Vinni's naked rape victim lines. For different reasons, of course, and thankfully the Lulus aren't sexualised at all. But they have the proportions and detail of very small children. These aren't even 12-year-old boys with AKs fighting for Kony (which might be, in some way justifiable in a wargaming context). These are pretty much sculpted as 5-year-old girls. With sniper rifles. And ciggies.
And I really don't think it's a matter of Political Correctness Gone Crazy. I dunno. If they were presented as a "dress-up" line, completely distinct and separate from the TGG lines instead of essentially incorporated into an army's range, I might view them differently - as opposed to the Ratlings that they clearly are supposed to stand in as.
Having said all that, I quite like the one with the ...hamster(?) I'd paint that one and use the rifle elsewhere, which is thankfully separate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Can someone explain to me why so many of the raging ladies are so severely pigeon-toed? It seems like every other action lady has her feet twisted inward to an excruciating degree, and it doesn't look cool or sexy.
it seems to be a French stylistic thing. Remy's ogres are all knock-kneed for no real reason as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: having design explanations based on their crazy in-universe background just means you have figures that are less able to be plugged into other games. Who knows, maybe that is what they are going for.
I'm pretty sure it's a case of making gak up on the fly as needed to justify the designs that they thought were cool.
Great update. I'm more than 80% pleased No, in all seriousness, I like what I see. I don't care about the Webinars and don't mind them showing off what they've planed next.
I'm also getting fonder and fonder of the IE heavies, so, again, I don
t really care much about their weak excuses.
Buzzsaw wrote: having design explanations based on their crazy in-universe background just means you have figures that are less able to be plugged into other games. Who knows, maybe that is what they are going for.
I'm pretty sure it's a case of making gak up on the fly as needed to justify the designs that they thought were cool.
My money is on "No guys these aren't just IG count as we actually have a game and lore to back this up!"
Well I'm certainly pleased, doubly so now that the cyber-zombies are in, bit of a shame they don't match the previous two in their concept art though, hopefully that doesn't mean W101 and #42 have been changed too as them and Nephahrya are why I got into this KS at all. They'll definitely be going on the pledge though regardless, just gotta keep my fingers crossed for some ranged options in the kit.
The original plan was to just get some alternative sculpts and characters without getting troop boxes (Aleksandr as Creed etc.) for the traitor guard but it's getting harder not to add to the pledge, they really do pretty minis, it's just a shame about everything else they do.
Buzzsaw wrote: having design explanations based on their crazy in-universe background just means you have figures that are less able to be plugged into other games. Who knows, maybe that is what they are going for.
I'm pretty sure it's a case of making gak up on the fly as needed to justify the designs that they thought were cool.
My money is on "No guys these aren't just IG count as we actually have a game and lore to back this up!"
I actually don't really mind those Lulu models. I think there are lot more offensive miniatures out there... if the idea of "stray kids" is true, they've done a decent job conveying it. Kids that have picked up weapons that were discarded, helmets, etc... but are more distracted by the cat walking by than anything else.
I could see where you could be upset by it, but if so I think you should just not buy it. I think, if you were going to make a "kid soldier", they're done about as well as is humanly possible to do, and about as least offensive as possible.
I can see you taking issue with the idea of anyone making a "kid soldier" model, Ever, but... I think on the scale of things they have actually pulled these off fine, and I did not think they would have been able to from the art. I.e., the sculpts are much less offensive once I see them- I actually quite like them and they're about the only thing I'd be tempted to pick up in this campaign so far.
One could complain more about the over-sexualization of women, glorification of violence, etc etc ad nauseum much more than that these cute models represent an endorsement of forced child soldiers in the world today. So, as much as I try to see it, my outrage meter just remains barely above zero and I find myself actually wanting to maybe get these eventually... not even really for game pieces, but just as cute models.
Sometimes there's beauty in the middle of war, and in an environment where a kid was by themselves and had picked up weapons, etc, the fact that they'd drop their gun and pick up a dog instead is kind of awesome and heart-warming. So, while I think the idea is something that could cause offense, in execution I think they're pretty much nailed it and made them acceptable to the vast majority of people (and to those that they are not, that is totally fine, but they can just not buy them).
RiTides wrote: I actually don't really mind those Lulu models. I think there are lot more offensive miniatures out there... if the idea of "stray kids" is true, they've done a decent job conveying it. Kids that have picked up weapons that were discarded, helmets, etc... but are more distracted by the cat walking by than anything else.
I could see where you could be upset by it, but if so I think you should just not buy it. I think, if you were going to make a "kid soldier", they're done about as well as is humanly possible to do, and about as least offensive as possible.
I can see you taking issue with the idea of anyone making a "kid soldier" model, Ever, but... I think on the scale of things they have actually pulled these off fine, and I did not think they would have been able to from the art. I.e., the sculpts are much less offensive once I see them- I actually quite like them and they're about the only thing I'd be tempted to pick up in this campaign so far.
One could complain more about the over-sexualization of women, glorification of violence, etc etc ad nauseum much more than that these cute models represent an endorsement of forced child soldiers in the world today. So, as much as I try to see it, my outrage meter just remains barely above zero and I find myself actually wanting to maybe get these eventually... not even really for game pieces, but just as cute models.
Sometimes there's beauty in the middle of war, and in an environment where a kid was by themselves and had picked up weapons, etc, the fact that they'd drop their gun and pick up a dog instead is kind of awesome and heart-warming. So, while I think the idea is something that could cause offense, in execution I think they're pretty much nailed it and made them acceptable to the vast majority of people (and to those that they are not, that is totally fine, but they can just not buy them).
I think this sums up my feelings on them pretty well. Had no intention of getting the lulus, and still don't. But I do find myself wishing that they'd sell them individually, just so I could paint that one with the puppy.
RiTides wrote: I actually don't really mind those Lulu models. I think there are lot more offensive miniatures out there... if the idea of "stray kids" is true, they've done a decent job conveying it. Kids that have picked up weapons that were discarded, helmets, etc... but are more distracted by the cat walking by than anything else.
I could see where you could be upset by it, but if so I think you should just not buy it. I think, if you were going to make a "kid soldier", they're done about as well as is humanly possible to do, and about as least offensive as possible.
I can see you taking issue with the idea of anyone making a "kid soldier" model, Ever, but... I think on the scale of things they have actually pulled these off fine, and I did not think they would have been able to from the art. I.e., the sculpts are much less offensive once I see them- I actually quite like them and they're about the only thing I'd be tempted to pick up in this campaign so far.
One could complain more about the over-sexualization of women, glorification of violence, etc etc ad nauseum much more than that these cute models represent an endorsement of forced child soldiers in the world today. So, as much as I try to see it, my outrage meter just remains barely above zero and I find myself actually wanting to maybe get these eventually... not even really for game pieces, but just as cute models.
Sometimes there's beauty in the middle of war, and in an environment where a kid was by themselves and had picked up weapons, etc, the fact that they'd drop their gun and pick up a dog instead is kind of awesome and heart-warming. So, while I think the idea is something that could cause offense, in execution I think they're pretty much nailed it and made them acceptable to the vast majority of people (and to those that they are not, that is totally fine, but they can just not buy them).
As I said, there's a context that works and one that doesn't. Child Soldiers for Kony, Hitler Youth/Volkssturm for historicals, even Juves in Necromunda or DiggaNob. As I said, if these figures were divorced from their "game" and not created as Ratling stand-ins (shorties with sniper rifles) then fine. I also did say that the renders are very nice, especially the one with the cat/puppy/hamster. I'm also not "upset" per se, I just think it's ill-chosen and that (as usual) their gakky badly-thought-out-made-up-on-the-fly excuses just make things worse. "These are mascots who don't feature in our game but we thought we'd do some dress-up figures for collectors because they look cool" would have been a much better way to deal with it.
Note that there were 3 positive posts about them just on this page, HBMC and several on the last, as well as a number of positive about the update in general
Lulu's having real guns is far tamer than a lot of the anime I've seen where young kids tear people apart in very graphic, hard hitting ways. Actually there was an anime (Gunslinger Girls iirc) with a bunch of girls from "troubled" childhoods, ie. gang raped, who were repurposed by the government to be hitmen... interesting anime, and pretty fitting comparison to the Lulu's I guess.
Things being "controversial" is great imo and should be encouraged, it allows us to challenge our opinions on such topics in a safe fictional setting. Nazi IG, Brother Vinni's slave girls, Lulu's with real guns... all awesome stuff as far as I'm concerned. Anything that can be used to better simulate "darker" aspects of fictional settings - in non-cheesy ways ideally - gets a thumbs up from me. I didn't like the Lulu's initially, but them having real guns has me a little more interested in them now at least.
Yonan wrote: Lulu's having real guns is far tamer than a lot of the anime I've seen where young kids tear people apart in very graphic, hard hitting ways. Actually there was an anime (Gunslinger Girls iirc) with a bunch of girls from "troubled" childhoods, ie. gang raped, who were repurposed by the government to be hitmen... interesting anime, and pretty fitting comparison to the Lulu's I guess.
Things being "controversial" is great imo and should be encouraged, it allows us to challenge our opinions on such topics in a safe fictional setting. Nazi IG, Brother Vinni's slave girls, Lulu's with real guns... all awesome stuff as far as I'm concerned. Anything that can be used to better simulate "darker" aspects of fictional settings - in non-cheesy ways ideally - gets a thumbs up from me. I didn't like the Lulu's initially, but them having real guns has me a little more interested in them now at least.
Will we see a change of fluff though? They had stated that those were suction cup guns (which was really pushing it, imho, because that's a lot of stuff for a glorified elastic mechanism) and that they would be "immune from fire" or some such. Now if they do have real, sci-fi weaponry, I'm afraid they'd logically be considered fair game by the opposing forces.
For the record, I think you're right that a fictional setting is much better to explore this than, say, Africa.
They look armed and adorably dangerous to me (Especially when paired with the cold, sociopathic sniper stereotype they look up to) and the Jail Birds strike me as a faction that is desperate enough to say "feth it" and give a gun to every person willing and able to fight.
Yonan wrote: Lulu's having real guns is far tamer than a lot of the anime I've seen where young kids tear people apart in very graphic, hard hitting ways. Actually there was an anime (Gunslinger Girls iirc) with a bunch of girls from "troubled" childhoods, ie. gang raped, who were repurposed by the government to be hitmen... interesting anime, and pretty fitting comparison to the Lulu's I guess.
Things being "controversial" is great imo and should be encouraged, it allows us to challenge our opinions on such topics in a safe fictional setting. Nazi IG, Brother Vinni's slave girls, Lulu's with real guns... all awesome stuff as far as I'm concerned. Anything that can be used to better simulate "darker" aspects of fictional settings - in non-cheesy ways ideally - gets a thumbs up from me. I didn't like the Lulu's initially, but them having real guns has me a little more interested in them now at least.
Will we see a change of fluff though? They had stated that those were suction cup guns (which was really pushing it, imho, because that's a lot of stuff for a glorified elastic mechanism) and that they would be "immune from fire" or some such. Now if they do have real, sci-fi weaponry, I'm afraid they'd logically be considered fair game by the opposing forces.
For the record, I think you're right that a fictional setting is much better to explore this than, say, Africa.
Perhaps the safest way for RH to handle it would be just to write them out of any playable/useable role. No rules for them. Fluffwise, just leave them as orphans being looked after by the jbs. Make them no more than mascots... objective markers at most, if you like.
I'm not sure there's a huge controversy anyway at the moment (certainly when plans for them aren't final), it's very much worth discussion. But I don't think it would harm RH just to play it safe with this one.
They look armed and adorably dangerous to me (Especially when paired with the cold, sociopathic sniper stereotype they look up to) and the Jail Birds strike me as a faction that is desperate enough to say "feth it" and give a gun to every person willing and able to fight.
Nice link, and it has one of my favorite quotes from the X-wing books, that I still remember! Man, that stood out:
"Threaten a child and you will unite its parents against you. Kill a child and those who have lost it will retreat in mourning. Those around them will feel their pain and likewise look to their own families. They will keep their children close and out of schools. [...] This makes the Rebellion look unforgivably weak."
— Flirry Vorru, Star Wars: The Krytos Trap
This is certainly an interesting discussion, and I guess I felt I might have reacted as some of you are (or seemingly are considering). But, given the setting, this one just doesn't bother me so far... and like I said, I'd actually be tempted to get those. And I tend to be on the other side of the fence in these discussions.
RiTides wrote: Note that there were 3 positive posts about them just on this page, HBMC and several on the last, as well as a number of positive about the update in general
Hell, even my posts recognise that they are very well done renders and that the one with the small animal is just adorable.
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Yonan wrote: Lulu's having real guns is far tamer than a lot of the anime I've seen where young kids tear people apart in very graphic, hard hitting ways. Actually there was an anime (Gunslinger Girls iirc) with a bunch of girls from "troubled" childhoods, ie. gang raped, who were repurposed by the government to be hitmen... interesting anime, and pretty fitting comparison to the Lulu's I guess.
Things being "controversial" is great imo and should be encouraged, it allows us to challenge our opinions on such topics in a safe fictional setting. Nazi IG, Brother Vinni's slave girls, Lulu's with real guns... all awesome stuff as far as I'm concerned. Anything that can be used to better simulate "darker" aspects of fictional settings - in non-cheesy ways ideally - gets a thumbs up from me. I didn't like the Lulu's initially, but them having real guns has me a little more interested in them now at least.
Anime is from Japan, with.. shall we say, very different cultural standards. Where groping women on a packed train, public urination in an alleyway, and tentacle rape in Manga are all considered somewhat acceptable.
Will we see a change of fluff though? They had stated that those were suction cup guns (which was really pushing it, imho, because that's a lot of stuff for a glorified elastic mechanism) and that they would be "immune from fire" or some such. Now if they do have real, sci-fi weaponry, I'm afraid they'd logically be considered fair game by the opposing forces.
For the record, I think you're right that a fictional setting is much better to explore this than, say, Africa.
Sure, and when I charge the adorable little counts-as ratlings with my unit of Bloodletters and the cute widdle 5-year-old Lulu's are literally torn apart in a bloody swathe of H2H and their souls damned to Khorne for all eternity, it's all good, right? Personally, I'd rather use Africa or 1945 Berlin and an appropriate historical ruleset like Force on Force or Bolt Action to simulate this sort of thing - but let's not kid ourselves, this isn't pushing any boundaries or anything. RH thought of a way to simulate Ratling Snipers in their "hot chicks" army (as they did with the Not-Ogryns) and thought of a concept that looked cool without stopping to think about it in any depth.
Perhaps the safest way for RH to handle it would be just to write them out of any playable/useable role. No rules for them. Fluffwise, just leave them as orphans being looked after by the jbs. Make them no more than mascots... objective markers at most, if you like.
Correctamundo. After all, their "fluff" is ...rather amorphous right now, and their game is just a twinkle in the milkman's eye, so it does them no harm to remove the issue outright, and then if individuals decide to use them as Ratlings in their armies, then they can claim "clean hands". Kinda.
Perhaps the safest way for RH to handle it would be just to write them out of any playable/useable role. No rules for them. Fluffwise, just leave them as orphans being looked after by the jbs. Make them no more than mascots... objective markers at most, if you like.
I'm not sure there's a huge controversy anyway at the moment (certainly when plans for them aren't final), it's very much worth discussion. But I don't think it would harm RH just to play it safe with this one.
Weren't cheerleaders in Blood Bowl figs that sat on the sidelines, even though they had an effect on the game? Could we have something like that? An in-game effect, but no combat viability? I mean, between Servo-Skulls, Ammo Runts, Grot Oilers, Choosers of the Slain, and the artifact bearers of the Dark Angels, 40k alone is filled with models that have an in-game effect even if they aren't killing people or being killed themselves. I'd like to see them have SOME form of game utility (assuming the RH game is ever presented to us), even if they aren't going to be a standard combat unit.
Azazelx wrote: Sure, and when I charge the adorable little counts-as ratlings with my unit of Bloodletters and the cute widdle 5-year-old Lulu's are literally torn apart in a bloody swathe of H2H and their souls damned to Khorne for all eternity, it's all good, right?
It can't just be me right, but that would be hilarious ; p
Anime is from Japan, with.. shall we say, very different cultural standards. Where groping women on a packed train, public urination in an alleyway, and tentacle rape in Manga are all considered somewhat acceptable.
In order. No it's really not, to the point that there are female only cars during rush hour. Just no, where the feth did you get that?. and that's really more a way to get around ridiculous censorship laws forced on the Japanese government by the West back in the day.
Azazelx wrote: Sure, and when I charge the adorable little counts-as ratlings with my unit of Bloodletters and the cute widdle 5-year-old Lulu's are literally torn apart in a bloody swathe of H2H and their souls damned to Khorne for all eternity, it's all good, right?
It can't just be me right, but that would be hilarious ; p
Yeah, my friend wants to get them... I'm going to have to forego mission objectives in this case. I'll have to charge them every chance I get.
Anime is from Japan, with.. shall we say, very different cultural standards. Where groping women on a packed train, public urination in an alleyway, and tentacle rape in Manga are all considered somewhat acceptable.
In order. No it's really not, to the point that there are female only cars during rush hour.
It happens. It's happened to a friend of mine, too - who kicked up a stink about it where apparently Japanese women often just live with it rather than making a fuss. If there are (now?) female-only cars, it's clearly a reaction to this.
Just no, where the feth did you get that?.
Just yeah. For reals. It's well known. But Google isn't where I first heard of it...
and that's really more a way to get around ridiculous censorship laws forced on the Japanese government by the West back in the day.
Irrelevant to my point. Hentai is a thing. So let's not use Urutsukidoji and friends as an example of how Japanese pop-culture norms should have any bearing on this discussion.
Irrelevant to my point. Hentai is a thing. So let's not use Urutsukidoji and friends as an example of how Japanese pop-culture norms should have any bearing on this discussion.
Anime is from Japan, with.. shall we say, very different cultural standards. Where groping women on a packed train, public urination in an alleyway, and tentacle rape in Manga are all considered somewhat acceptable.
In order. No it's really not, to the point that there are female only cars during rush hour.
It happens. It's happened to a friend of mine, too - who kicked up a stink about it where apparently Japanese women often just live with it rather than making a fuss. If there are (now?) female-only cars, it's clearly a reaction to this.
But sadly most every single culture in the world is geared towards a horrible spiral of victim blaming and rape apologism that tends to make it endemic in every culture. Japan is not unique in its under-reporting.
For what its worth, I'm sorry your friend had to go through that and I'm glad she said something. Hopefully in doing it she inspired others as well.
Irrelevant to my point. Hentai is a thing. So let's not use Urutsukidoji and friends as an example of how Japanese pop-culture norms should have any bearing on this discussion.
Irrelevant to my point. Hentai is a thing. So let's not use Urutsukidoji and friends as an example of how Japanese pop-culture norms should have any bearing on this discussion.
I'm not totally clear what we're arguing about here, is it:
"I find these Lulu's are bad because giving fantasy children guns and having them fight is unpleasant in gaming due to not liking real world children having had to endure similar/the same"?
Yonan wrote: I'm not totally clear what we're arguing about here, is it:
"I find these Lulu's are bad because giving fantasy children guns and having them fight is unpleasant in gaming due to not liking real world children having had to endure similar/the same"?
Yeah it's kinda weird. I don't think playing as Chaos means that I am tacitly endorsing demonic summoning*.
Azazelx wrote: Sure, and when I charge the adorable little counts-as ratlings with my unit of Bloodletters and the cute widdle 5-year-old Lulu's are literally torn apart in a bloody swathe of H2H and their souls damned to Khorne for all eternity, it's all good, right?
It can't just be me right, but that would be hilarious ; p
Yeah, my friend wants to get them... I'm going to have to forego mission objectives in this case. I'll have to charge them every chance I get.
Anime is from Japan, with.. shall we say, very different cultural standards. Where groping women on a packed train, public urination in an alleyway, and tentacle rape in Manga are all considered somewhat acceptable.
In order. No it's really not, to the point that there are female only cars during rush hour.
It happens. It's happened to a friend of mine, too - who kicked up a stink about it where apparently Japanese women often just live with it rather than making a fuss. If there are (now?) female-only cars, it's clearly a reaction to this.
Just no, where the feth did you get that?.
Just yeah. For reals. It's well known. But Google isn't where I first heard of it...
From the first link on google cheese.
In present day Japan however, public lavatories are available everywhere. There is also a law banning urinating in the streets, so there is probably no one who would do it in the open.
Having spent a fair amount of my time in Tokyo at bars carousing, and walking back to my hotel afterwards, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed the streets running with torrents of urine.
You do realize "happens" and "considered acceptable" are two different things right? Female and female/children only cars have been on and off in Japan since the mid 20th century, and the practice spread again in 2005 with the bulk of major national and city lines offering female only cars at least during rush hour. This is in addition to increased awareness and education about how to prevent getting groped and report perverts, and much more stringent punishments for offenders. All of this implying, no. It's not acceptable.
As far as pop culture norms go, A. not my point, just pointing out some of your points have no bearing on reality, and as little connection to this particular discussion. B. Fiction is fiction regardless of nation of origin* and a crap sack world where kiddies are trained up as assassins can be perfectly relevant to a crapsack world where more kiddies pick up high powered sniper rifles and follow around a just shy of emotionally dead sniper like she's a murderous Captain Kangaroo. It's all exploration of similar themes if handled well. So far RH is not handling the Lulus very well. When the game actually drops, or we see a some actual models and the darts have returned, or they issue some more coherent fluff on each faction we'll see if they actually manage to hit the MANY dark themes they want to get into with TGG (see the IE rebel for more) and whether the Lulus become such an exploration, orrrr just get pushed to the left with a "Well even in our crapsack world no one would hurt a child." which since it's their world is perfectly valid.
*You should see some of the disturbing pornography Americans put out. Or Freyja help us all the Germans.
Azazelx wrote: Sure, and when I charge the adorable little counts-as ratlings with my unit of Bloodletters and the cute widdle 5-year-old Lulu's are literally torn apart in a bloody swathe of H2H and their souls damned to Khorne for all eternity, it's all good, right?
It can't just be me right, but that would be hilarious ; p
Yeah, my friend wants to get them... I'm going to have to forego mission objectives in this case. I'll have to charge them every chance I get.
Can't disagree with any of the above. Play with whatever models you want. It's just toy soldiers, and remember toy soldiers are NOT srs bsnz.
Yonan wrote: I'm not totally clear what we're arguing about here, is it:
"I find these Lulu's are bad because giving fantasy children guns and having them fight is unpleasant in gaming due to not liking real world children having had to endure similar/the same"?
That seems to be the basic anti-Lulu argument in summation. I find it puzzling too, but didn't want to say anything.
from a 40K perspective many Guard Regiments have camp followers - wives, girlfriends, hookers, children of all of these. Some of whom may well end up on the front line when things go bad..............
Imperial Glory novel from BL describes this quite explicitly.............
There are many very cool models around on "Alice in wonderland" - with guns/blades theme........also Malifeux have lots of evil children.......
I hope I don't see certain someones ever popping in on, say, objectification of women in war game miniatures threads, or maybe...evil space nazi ork threads, etc.
I hope I don't see certain someones ever popping in on, say, objectification of women in war game miniatures threads, or maybe...evil space nazi ork threads, etc.
Young scantily clad female evil space nazi orks with guns?! Sign me up ; p
I hope I don't see certain someones ever popping in on, say, objectification of women in war game miniatures threads, or maybe...evil space nazi ork threads, etc.
Young scantily clad female evil space nazi orks with guns?! Sign me up ; p
How DARE you, sir! How dare you take the plight of young scantily clad female evil space ork nazis so lightly?! You'll be hearing from my internet lawyer. (though yes I do recall some of those threads haha)
I'm not sensing a ton of outrage, but the Internet does lend itself to hyperbole so, OK.
It is just a curious choice for them to make.
Either way, it won't really matter.
If the miniatures match the renders, and I have every reason to believe they will, and they scale OK with 40K, RH is going to make that KS total look like peanuts!
Yonan wrote: I'm not totally clear what we're arguing about here, is it:
"I find these Lulu's are bad because giving fantasy children guns and having them fight is unpleasant in gaming due to not liking real world children having had to endure similar/the same"?
Yeah it's kinda weird. I don't think playing as Chaos means that I am tacitly endorsing demonic summoning*.
I can see where you're coming from, Compel, as I feel that way quite strongly about depictions of rape, personally (and have discussed this before). It's just too disturbing for me to want to see made light of (well done art always has a place on almost any topic, of course).
However, people made some good counter-arguments about certain miniatures in that regard and I realized that different things affect people in different ways. I certainly agree that some things are "out of bounds", but what those bounds are are hard to say for everybody.
If your line is "anything involved kids", it makes sense that this would bother you. But as someone who hasn't really felt that way, the depiction of these children is about as harmless as any depiction of children in gear for warfare could possibly be. That doesn't mean it's going to be OK for everybody, but I can only speak for myself when I say that it does not bother me, personally. I can understand why it might bother others, and I'm not belittling that- I just don't share the conviction.
So, I know you were joking Alpharius, but when you joked:
Alpharius wrote:I hope I don't see certain someones ever popping in on, say, objectification of women in war game miniatures threads, or maybe...evil space nazi ork threads, etc.
I actually disagree with that because I am not saying it is unfair for anyone to say that these models bother them- I'm just saying they don't bother me, and explaining why.
For others, a certain depiction of nazis will be over the line (glorification of the Nazi ideals, for example, would bother most people). And for myself, the depiction of extreme violence might be more bothersome than the Lulus in their rather innocent poses here. Or, as you say, some things regarding the portrayal of women. It just depends, really!
I think as long as everyone's view is respected and not ridiculed, we can have an informed debate on what is and is not acceptable, and our reasons for thinking that way. Personally, to me these models are acceptable, but I can understand folks who do not think that they are because their line is "anything involving kids" as Compel states.
And regarding kids, as a tanget point, I just think I'd be more worried about exposing them to some of the ultra-violent, ultra-sexualized, or demonic images often seen in wargaming before I would worry about them seeing these . Even the Alien Assimilation Host I'll eventually get from Trollforged has some disturbing parts that could give them nightmares, so that's something I'll be thinking about what they're ready for and when (when we have kids, that is!).
So, all that to say, I think this is a good and worthwhile discussion! As long as neither side mocks the other's position, I think we can all learn a lot here regarding why some people take issue with a certain model, and others do not. Always good to have a reasoned debate about things like this, imo as if we don't talk about it there's no way to understand why folks view it differently.
Disagree if you like, obviously, it all just sort of comes across as a bit hypocritical, and highlights that people will gloss over things if they like most of what a company is doing.
I think you are more susceptible to nightmares than most kids, RiTides Not to mention the fact that kids get nightmares over any random thing, not just "scary" stuff as we would define it. The visual content of dreams usually has little to do with the objects themselves and more to do with whatever we attach to the emotions that drive the dreams. Kids are just lucky enough to have better imaginations than adults, and so don't have just the usual "Showed up to work without pants" dreams.
Alpharius wrote: Disagree if you like, obviously, it all just sort of comes across as a bit hypocritical, and highlights that people will gloss over things if they like most of what a company is doing.
That comment doesn't seem aimed at me, as I DISLIKE most of what this company is doing! So, I'm certainly not glossing over it to defend them- again, that comment seems aimed elsewhere. Just thought it was an interesting discussion and tried to give a well thought out reply (at least, I'd like to think so ) on my reasoning. It's interesting that those minis bother some people and not others, when the reverse might be true in other instances. Again, just interesting- no big deal either way
Compel wrote: I dunno, anything involving kids being a redline doesn't seem like that selective of an outrage to me...
It's an arbitrary distinction. Why is "X" ok when "Y" isn't, especially when "X" is also terrible... especially when we're dealing with something completely fictional.
It's ok to dislike X and/or Y, so long as you don't try to screw with peoples mandollies/art/media by getting them removed from the product, that's where the fight starts ; p
It's quite funny people criticize Raging Heroes about making the Lulu's models while RH specifically said these little girls weren't intended to be played as "true soldiers on the battlefield". These models are more there to add some "cuteness" - even their background is quite "sweet-heartish" in itself, since they aren't forced to take guns. I mean, their guns are actually "toy guns", for God's sake!
Beside, if you don't like them, just don't buy them. You have the choice. I, for myself, quite like the opportunity to have children models in 28 mm. They're not so common, especially at this quality.
Sarouan wrote: It's quite funny people criticize Raging Heroes about making the Lulu's models while RH specifically said these little girls weren't intended to be played as "true soldiers on the battlefield". These models are more there to add some "cuteness" - even their background is quite "sweet-heartish" in itself, since they aren't forced to take guns. I mean, their guns are actually "toy guns", for God's sake!
I can think of a few ways that the Lulus could have been handled better. The snipers could have been a mixed unit, with three teams each made up of an adult or late teenage sniper and a Lulu spotter as a squire of sorts. Or they could have acknowledged that this wasn't a good thing instead of relying on the "they're toy guns, honest!" handwaving that didn't actually carry over to the sculpts. Blondie could still be a sympathetic character - she's still trying her hardest to do the right thing by the orphans under her care, even if her approach isn't the best way to go about it.
I can think of a few ways that the Lulus could have been handled better. The snipers could have been a mixed unit, with three teams each made up of an adult or late teenage sniper and a Lulu spotter as a squire of sorts. Or they could have acknowledged that this wasn't a good thing instead of relying on the "they're toy guns, honest!" handwaving that didn't actually carry over to the sculpts. Blondie could still be a sympathetic character - she's still trying her hardest to do the right thing by the orphans under her care, even if her approach isn't the best way to go about it.
Well, there could have been many more concepts for the Lulu's and that's the one RH choose for them. The idea of making "little girls with toy guns" for - let's be honest here- "count as ratlings for Imperial Guard armies" sounds quite good to me.
But you can't ignore all the background behind the Lulu's birth and getting away with just "RH did that wrong". That's just taking a word out of its sentence and arguing it's wrong in itself. It's really not like RH did not explain in details why the Lulu's are that way. They even say how they see them acting in their own game, and that's nothing like "meat fodder on the first line".
Some backers said they intend to use the Lulu's like objectives or just token, others would just have them for the cuteness in itself. The models are more "cute" than anything else, honestly. I mean, how can you take seriously children in clothes/helms too big for them with plenty of teddy bears, pets, lollipops and other "cute" things on them?
Besides, they are just models (and don't forget you don't have to use them in a wargame; collecting - and painting - them in itself is already good enough for some people). I think war in itself is wrong. I also believe in democracy. Still I play at 40k - a game where totalitarism rule in the Imperium and where violence and war are the answer for everything. That doesn't mean I changed my mind - just that I take that as it is: a game, not reality.
And I also think weird that people are offended by womanized or children models while not saying anything about genocidal bio engineered super soldiers who are more than happy to kill everyone in their way - even if it means slaughtering ones who didn't do anything wrong. It looks quite selective in "being righteous" to me.
Alpharius wrote: As does selectively being OK with Child Soldiers does too, right?
They look more like "children playing soldiers", to me. If they were true soldiers, they would look much more serious (or scared...), without all these "weird but cute things" all around. Ah, and it's useless to give them those way too big guns, as well.
I remember "playing war" in my infancy. I admit it was childish, but well...I was a child at that time.
But it's easy to get offended by anything, nowadays.
Sarouan wrote: And I also think weird that people are offended by womanized or children models while not saying anything about genocidal bio engineered super soldiers who are more than happy to kill everyone in their way - even if it means slaughtering ones who didn't do anything wrong. It looks quite selective in "being righteous" to me.
I do complain about the bleached, bland take on the Space Marines. Things like this are opportunities to add depth to your characters, but not if you chicken out. The Space Marines are more interesting when you acknowledge that they are abhuman freaks engineered for war, and use that to shape the setting.
I do complain about the bleached, bland take on the Space Marines. .
So you have nothing to say about their actions - you know, killing stuff and slaughtering hapless opponents with overkilling weapons.
We all have different points of view, after all.
Why would he? It's a game. It's fiction. You lot are the same type as those Greenpeace nutters who said that Black Flag having whaling in it was condoning and encouraging whaling aren't you?
I'm just saying this whole line of conversation is patently ridiculous. This is the same chain of thought that leads to "Playing D&D means you support black magic and satanism because those elements are in the game!" This entire conversation is at the very best case scenario trolling.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: This is the same chain of thought that leads to "Playing D&D means you support black magic and satanism because those elements are in the game!"
That's what I don't understand about this, either... I genuinely don't understand it, and was hoping we'd get some good dialogue going on it, rather than just folks getting heated about it. Why does this bother people; do they really think it represents an endorsement of cruelty to children / child soldiers?
That's fair, cincy, and I can see folks coming at it from that angle. I've been thinking about it and I think that's probably the best reason of all not to care for these.
Alpharius, you might want to re-read my post I was looking for why people of the other opinion think the way they do. I already made a really long post explaining how I thought about it initially- but I've actually changed my mind on issues like this before, and that's why I wanted to get people's reasoning on why it bothered them (such as cincy's above).
It wasn't actually directed at you, just FYI- but other folks might want to share a bit more
Alpharius wrote: Obviously you don't think so, but then obviously some people do.
So, your opinion is...what?
Fine, I will make it clearer - since it seems some people get the wrong idea about why I like the Lulu's models from RH so far;
So these are the ones showed in the update.
The first on the left is, to me, the most lovely of the three. You have a little girl who dropped a gun so that she can hug what appears to be a puppy. Of all things, I believe this one has nothing to do with a child soldier. It's even the opposite, it gives me a feeling of some "peace"; some child with a pet, not caring about war or scary things like guns around her. And she looks happy on the model, by all means. I love it, it makes me want to use a base with plenty of flowers on a grassy field. Yes, I guess I'm too sensitive.
The one on the middle is just plain funny. She tries to "look serious", but with her "too big for her" boots and helm while having a teddy bear attached on top it makes it even more ridiculous. The most funny part of it is of course the lollipop in her mouth. She has all that "I wanna be a soldier like Mommy!" feeling all around. You can picture her trying to act as the boss around while doing obvious childish things.
The third on the left is just a child trying to make a lil piggy listening to her. There is nothing serious in this as well; you would remove the soldier stuff on the model than she wouldn't act differently.
Of course, it's a matter of taste and point of view. Some people like some piece of art, others don't see why bother. Calling it "poor taste" or "true genius" is just personal. But I still believe that before judging, you should have the respect to try to understand why the maker made it that way.
Yeh, I believe he was supposed to start on Monday there. Though it could be next Monday. To be honest, I was just trying to change the subject. I wouldn't really expect this guy to start posting updates until he's got his feet under the table a bit. I think the seminars are next weekend? Maybe he'll sit in on them and start posting afterwards.
The offer still stands if anyone is willing to record the 3d modelling seminar... I'd be very interested in compensating someone for the bother (such as doing some 3d printing for them in exchange, etc).
alanmckenzie wrote: Yeh, I believe he was supposed to start on Monday there. Though it could be next Monday. To be honest, I was just trying to change the subject. I wouldn't really expect this guy to start posting updates until he's got his feet under the table a bit. I think the seminars are next weekend? Maybe he'll sit in on them and start posting afterwards.
Are we sure French Monday's actually start on a Monday? Or even in 2014?
alanmckenzie wrote: Yeh, I believe he was supposed to start on Monday there. Though it could be next Monday. To be honest, I was just trying to change the subject. I wouldn't really expect this guy to start posting updates until he's got his feet under the table a bit. I think the seminars are next weekend? Maybe he'll sit in on them and start posting afterwards.
Are we sure French Monday's actually start on a Monday? Or even in 2014?
I downloaded this a while back when I was trying to make sense of some things;
We know that they do have Mondays. This, at least, is certain.
cool image, but there is a word missing in the last example.
And for feth's sake, Quebec has gallicised weekend since at least the 1970s... if not more. Can they please let that word go?
He started on Monday, that doesn't mean he'll work right off the bat. Maybe they'll figure he's not a good fit. Plenty of things can happen to delay updates, rest assured.
The offer still stands if anyone is willing to record the 3d modelling seminar... I'd be very interested in compensating someone for the bother (such as doing some 3d printing for them in exchange, etc).
Are you still asking for people to break an NDA or a copyright? If you like to see the show pay for it.
I was quite sure there was a rule concerning stuff like that on Dakka.
You have a fair point, and I've now sent them a message asking about a recording . If they offered one for sale I would be happy to pay for it. As I said earlier, if anyone really wants to learn much from the seminar, they're going to have to record it. If it's as dense as they advertise, no one is going to be able to take in all that information at once. So, hopefully they are recording it themselves, and like I said I'd be happy to pay Raging Heroes for it, instead of paying someone else (as I was offering to do 3d printing for). However, I have feeling they won't be offering it.
Also, interesting that they listed the details of the Art Seminar as if they're going forward with it, but no one selected that pledge level from what I can see.
Here's a copy of my message to them:
Hi,
Would it be possible to buy a recording of the 3d sculpting seminar? I know you limited it to 10 participants so that people can interact and ask questions, but I would love to see and learn from it... and would be very happy to pay for it
Cheers,
RiTides
Also, just for the record you are not magically bound by an NDA as a result of backing a kickstarter . This was brought up in another thread, too, when someone copied a "backers only" update for others to see. I'm not sure where that rumor comes from, but of course it is good form to treat a project creator with good faith, assuming they are doing the same to their backers. But it's just that, good form- you are not bound in any way to hold what they share with you in confidence.
RiTides wrote: Also, just for the record you are not magically bound by an NDA as a result of backing a kickstarter . This was brought up in another thread, too, when someone copied a "backers only" update for others to see. I'm not sure where that rumor comes from, but of course it is good form to treat a project creator with good faith, assuming they are doing the same to their backers. But it's just that, good form- you are not bound in any way to hold what they share with you in confidence.
A recording of their (fee-based) 3d seminar is quite different to a backers only update though since it's one of the products offered via kickstarter and not information about the product. It's more akin to a copy of a novel(la) that gets released as part of a larger kickstarter project. NDA is therefore probably the wrong term, sorry for that. Nonetheless thanks for asking them; perhaps there are more that are interested in that particular material.
Agreed Minx, I have to confess it didn't occur to me that they might offer a recording. I think it's a long-shot, but it's certainly worth asking!
However, I'll also point out that seeing a recording of a seminar is different than actually participating in one, as you can't ask questions / etc. But it's still something I'd love to see, and pay for, if they would offer it
RiTides wrote: Also, just for the record you are not magically bound by an NDA as a result of backing a kickstarter . This was brought up in another thread, too, when someone copied a "backers only" update for others to see. I'm not sure where that rumor comes from, but of course it is good form to treat a project creator with good faith, assuming they are doing the same to their backers. But it's just that, good form- you are not bound in any way to hold what they share with you in confidence.
A recording of their (fee-based) 3d seminar is quite different to a backers only update though since it's one of the products offered via kickstarter and not information about the product. It's more akin to a copy of a novel(la) that gets released as part of a larger kickstarter project. NDA is therefore probably the wrong term, sorry for that. Nonetheless thanks for asking them; perhaps there are more that are interested in that particular material.
What's it feel like to so spectacularly miss a point?
One of the bonuses to communication as sparse as they have been would be that any uptick in it would represent a marked improvement. I'd love to see more WIPs, incomplete 3d renders, and stuff they are kicking around the office.
Hey, I got an extremely reasonable and quick reply, sweet
Hi!
It's a good question, and a good idea. I'll put it forth to the Team, and
get back to you on Monday, if that's OK with you?
If you haven't heard from me by Tuesday, please do drop me another note.
Cheers,
Mireille
Raging Heroes Team
Very stoked to get a quick reply and will be even more so if they offer up the recording for sale
Well, it looks like RiTides may have helped expand the project in a fascinating way. I wasn't invested enough to pledge for a seminar, but I would also pay for watching a video of their techniques.
The fact that their new hire (I assume) is posting frequently is great. Even if it is content they've already shared. At least its something to keep engaged with. If nothing else it let's us know that their office didn't fall into a sinkhole destroying all evidence of their existence.
So far they've been reposting the link to the latest update and old renders on their Facebook for the most part, reminding us that OUI, zey have produzed une update for zee KS.
Well, there's always going to be some settling in time for a new guy. Though, assuming that they hired him based on previous experience with communications the transition into the new role should hopefully not be too long.
Most of the delay is probably RH wanting to keep a close eye on what's being posted at first so that their top secret processes aren't revealed to the world.
@Alastair: We totally agree with you on this.
In fact, we had planned to touch base with you yesterday and give you some news of what's going on right now at Raging Heroes. But we got caught into the preparation of the Webinars (the first 2 sessions were moved from last week-end to this one because of Internet issues), and so the Update got side-tracked. However, we have a big Update planned for next week with new sculpts so once again, a lot of new images.
As you know, we also have a new member in the team who works exclusively on communications, but he's still getting his feet wet as there is so much information to absorb and so much stuff to set up. On top of that, so early in the game, we all prefer to make sure that his communications are Ok'd by the team, and as mentioned before, the team is pretty busy. But this is already evolving.
He will soon be posting tidbits and snapshots of what's happening here every day.
Well, they've not misplaced their login details for the KS site, just don't trust the new guy with them yet, which is certainly understandable.
As for the updates, the one yesterday could have been roughed out by the new guy and then approved / finished off by a longer serving member of the team without it taking too much time. With regards to the one next week, we've been here before...
Maybe that's the safest thing for him to do at this point in time. He can't reveal any proprietary process information through shoe-pron or delicious gifs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope he has a good grasp of English...
Semi-Update on Facebook:
MAKE 'EM TALK AND WIN A 15€ VOUCHER!
Each week, try to win a 15€ voucher off Raging Heroes miniatures. How? Starting tomorrow, we post a pic, you comment with your caption suggestion, and 3 days later, we pick our favourite caption and award the winner a 15 € coupon off our minis in our webshop.
Magali Genet gave us the idea when she commented on this picture of Natasha. So she became our first winner (congratulations!), we added the caption on the image, and we decided we should do this with all our minis, and that you should all be involved. Have fun !
We'll post a picture every Tuesday at 8:00 AM (GMT+1), and you have 'til Thursday 8,00 PM (GMT+1) to add you caption in the comments below.
Every Friday, we'll announce the winner by posting the picture with the new caption.
Note: Please comment on Raging Heroes's Page. We love you for sharing our posts, but unfortunately, we can't follow comments on other pages, you'll understand
So stay tuned for our first image tomorrow morning!
Well, that's a step in the right direction at least. Just have to see how long they can keep it up for whilst also getting some more frequent KS updates out.
Well, shouldn't be too hard if it's a new member of the team running that stuff, whom is essentially not involved in the super-duper top secret design process.
cincydooley wrote: Personally I think it's in poor taste to depict small children as soldiers as miniatures.
I left this thread for a week or so since it was getting heated, but frankly, Cincy summed it up pretty well here. Same thing (for me) with a lot of Vinni's stuff. I'm happy to leave it at that.
Now I shall read and catch up on the rest of the thread, replying as I go as I always do, and possibly invoking the wrath of Alphie!
I got this thoughtful response a week ago, but only just got to reply due to Thanksgiving. My response is below it:
Hi again,
I am writing you back regarding your previous message where you wrote that there were people who might be interested in the purchase of recordings of the TGG webinars, if they were made available.
Just to clarify what the content of the seminar is: the people who pledged 120$ for a 3-hour 3D sculpting webinar will actually be getting two 2 1/2 hours webinars, one on Art Direction and one on 3D sculpting. (We made that upgrade during the Kickstarter, (see Note 2 in Update #49).
I'll be honest: at this point in time, and after giving it much thought, we still haven't quite figured out a way to make the recordings available for purchase while at the same time being fair to our '3D-sculpting Pledge Level' backers...
If you have any thoughts on this, we're listening!
Best regards,
Mireille
Raging Heroes Team
Hi Mireille,
Sorry for the delayed reply, we had a holiday (Thanksgiving) here this past week and I was travelling for it.
Maybe you can ask your backers who participate in the seminar at the end of it about this, since they'll all be in one place. Basically before logging off, ask if they wouldn't mind it being offered up for sale? And that way, they could buy a recording too to remember what they heard?
If they say "No", then that's it, but I have a feeling they might not mind! Worth asking, and definitely worth recording such a great seminar anyway, in case you can use it
Good call, I just sent an addendum stating as much. Was just thinking out loud there but I really think that's the only way to do it- ask those participating in the seminar at the end if they're all OK with it being sold, with the added bonus of they'd get a free recording
I don't recall seeing that grenade launcher before. It'd be nice if they would send an update out via Kickstarter for those of us who don't use facebook though.
Creator Loud'n Raging 14 minutes ago
We're all currently working on the new TGG Update for the end of the week.
See behind-the-scenes image: http://bit.ly/1jmxJ0n We're now on Instagram: #ragingheroes #behindthescenes
KalashnikovMarine wrote: "Days" and "Weeks" are a common American pig dog conception of time, the French are much more fluid and civilized unlike English speaking barbarians.
I thought they were just worried that Khan Noonien Singh was listening in on their transmissions.
"If we go by the book, hours would seem like days..."
I know I try to keep balance, but it took me 30-40 minutes to put out our weekly update to our trade accounts and I work for a multinational firm. I'm just saying.
Yes, the level of effort that seems to go into rambling updates just doesn't fit the hype. But my ex-employee was like that. She would write 6 pages for a half a page intro to an essay, then have to cut, cut, cut. I don't get it. Fix a target, aim for it, and then stop.
Man... if I had a nickle for each time that .gif has been used...
I might be able to afford one RH model. Assuming I found a fiver or two in the couch cushions.
I would like to point out that I have researched and written 4 15-25 page academic papers in the time that has elapsed since their KS finished. Granted, 3 of them are only 80% finished, but I think RH's sense of perspective is a little off here.
Wehrkind wrote: Man... if I had a nickle for each time that .gif has been used...
I might be able to afford one RH model. Assuming I found a fiver or two in the couch cushions.
Well, until they finally decide to deliver, expect it to pop up plenty of times, should be more than enough to get you a mini or two.
Wehrkind wrote: I would like to point out that I have researched and written 4 15-25 page academic papers in the time that has elapsed since their KS finished. Granted, 3 of them are only 80% finished, but I think RH's sense of perspective is a little off here.
Foolish American! You know nothing of how the French go about their work! Everything must be made to perfection, a work of art only fit to be shown once it has been kneaded and refined until.. C'est perfection. That upon reading it you will go..
I usually just do the happy wiggle upon seeing new posts in this thread Even though I really do love seeing new models, and RH's are very nice these days, the sweet yet spicy taste of this thread is really what draws me in time and again
Huh. I gotta be honest, Shashenka was one of my favorites during the campaign, but the render just isn't doing it for me. The hair looks different. Am I wrong on that? Or does it look different to anyone else?
...and I also find myself very glad that I didn't pay in to get an Aquila fig. Yikes.
But a lot of those look really sweet. Loving the alternative heads on most of those. Especially the helmetless IE girls. Dr. Von X is going to give me fits. I just can't see any option other than to magnetize her so I can use all her configurations!
Really? I rather like the Soul Weavers. That said, I think you are right, there is a fine element of attitude that does seem changed from the concept art to the render. The thing that concerns me the most is how those details (which can look so thick in these renders) will actually translate into ultra-fine elements.
Spoiler:
The character models remain very well realized: one big question I have is how so many cloth elements will end up in actual casts. In these renders things like cloaks, capes and flags seem so thick, but the fact is that on the screen these things are much, much bigger then they will be in-hand.
For example;
Spoiler:
That thumbnail is the size of the figure's entire torso and then some.
Interesting little thing, I honestly forgot about this;
This means that, in all likelihood, most the Heroines shown in this Update (as well as the previous on), will only be cast in metal and ready for shipment in late January. The Troops are made through a different process and will be right behind.
I'll be honest, I'm rather concerned about how some of the really delicate details in these sculpts will translate into metal. Those Soul Weavers, for example, are masses of flowing, sharp edges.
The Pledge Manager will be online fairly soon now. You may recall that many backers told us they wanted to see as many sculpts as possible before they had to make their selection, so we focused on that first, but the time is now drawing near!
Some nice sculpts, and the 3D prints came out nice. I need to look at my spreadsheet of what I was going to get.
~iPaint
Tarja's tailor is a brilliant madman. "I am going to need to measure the bust again. From every angle. With much scrutiny. My measurements must be exact. Shoulders are good enough."
What the hell is Mimi doing? She's not running or jumping. I think she's Footloose, which unfortunately means her extreme pigeon toedness is probably going to break her ankle.
Irena Vega is great. Love it.
Drusilla's Christ-complex is affecting her performance.
I think Ill wait for wave 3 and make final decisions on what to add there, quite a few nice heroines revealed on the update and the frustration of how the kickstarter was run has diminished a bit.
Quite a good update, I am not worried about metal casting, Metal is quite good at holding detail, if the moulder is skilled and the caster knows what he does.
Here a quick comparison between artwork and 3d sculpt:
Spoiler:
Some of the girls I don't like pretty much, like Aquila, she is looking distorted. Others are pretty awesome, especially the new heads. I love Stroheim like she is but wow to what she is hiding under her helmet! Mimi got from "not interested" to "possible buy", Volga too although I really still don't get why females happen to have these x-legs so often.
I think it became obvious that they won't get the first wave out this here but I think I am waiting till all the waves are out anyway, until I decide what to buy and what not, who knows what happens in the production? But what I saw until now catched my interest, most of the figures look pretty good.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Have they ever mentionned Christmas as a target date before? I only remember September 2013 and March 2014.
Well, they posted at one point that wave one would likely be later in the fall than originally expected. Nothing specifically saying Christmas as a target date, or even pushing things back into winter, until update #80 that is.
As for the update itself, the renders are all looking good. Though there's little shown off this time that was on my list last time I went through it. The only thing that looks like it could end badly is Baba Yaga's robes, that's a very thin point to connect to a base and support the whole figure.
The new renders for Blondie and Bernadette look nice, I just hope that they don't keep going back and spending days more on every figure when they develop some new technique. Improving on things is nice, but at some point you just have to stop adding bits and actually release a product.
The rest of the update is less thrilling really. After the way they've reacted previously to requests for more frequent updates, I'm sure we all remember the delicious 'twitter weaned' comments, their decision to go posting pictures everywhere but the KS and suggest that we should be happy enough to check six different places for potentially new information is disappointing. Clearly, imho, Bruno's a social media guy rather than someone who can actually put together a weekly KS update in a reasonable time. If he was, maybe we could get a Friday update every week and it wouldn't take four days to put together as they wouldn't need to cram so much in.
In short, the renders look good (which isn't unexpected) but the rest of the content and delivery are lacking.
sad.
as if we don't talk about it there's no way to understand why folks view it differently.
