StraightSilver wrote:I have been staying out of the rumours threads for a while now, mainly because a lot of the information I was getting was plain wrong, and also because I was conscious of dropping anybody in it, but I thought I would chip in on this.
The Tau models have apparently been sitting around for quite some time now, some of them were redone over 2 years ago so I am not sure why they have taken so long to be released, but I suspect it's because the models range fits into 6th better than 5th.
They were one of the first armies to get a flyer (outside of IG's Valk / Vendetta), even though it hasn't been released yet.
As for an allies supplement, I was told that next year 40K will have a release very similar in format to the Warhammer Fantasy Storm of Magic supplement. In other words a book, cards and kits that could be used in multiple armies, in the same vein as the monsters from WHFB.
I assumed it would be a big supplement for Psykers, but it could just as well be for allies, as that seems to be the best way for GW to produce new kits without having to invest in a full 'Dex for them.
Now I hate to put Summer into any rumours, but I believe Storm of Magic was released about that time, which would put Tau and allies around June or July ish? However rumours strongly point to Eldar being early in the year, so I'm not sure if we would get 2 Xenos Codexes back to back? Unless GW really are going to do a release every month.
Oh, and Tau getting new Stealthsuit plastics doesn't make sense to me.
Kroothawk wrote:Tau rumours by Stickmonkey:
There has been some speculation on this, and I'm getting chatter now that seems to reinforce a few things, so I thought I'd post what is floating my way.
Tau Codex early next year. Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. (aside: Dare I start a Spring of Allies moniker...ah well then it will end up being 2 years from now... ) Crisis suits completely redone. Stealth suits completely redone. Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. (My take is this might actually be a new plastic kit taking over a FW model, and before anyone yells GW doesnt cannibalize FW...yes, they do, they have, and they will.) The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. Flyer has dual gattling cannons Flyer has option for rail guns Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?)
Rule rumors (these are rumors people! I hate posting rule rumors cause I am not involved in that. Please take fwiw) Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover.
All I have for now Cheers.
Updated 7/31/2012
Kroothawk wrote:From Warseer, a first and last post (I added paragraphs):
Ornithopter wrote:I was told, that GW is trying to invert their release order. Instead of two follow up waves after a Codex release they will release one or two smaller waves of models before every codex, one big release with the codex and some stragglers thereafter (mainly re-releases and model updates). This is widely known and not hard to deduce. But I was also told that this is only a test run for two upcoming releases and GW is fully prepared to switch back to the old modus operandi or a completely different release schedule.
GW has used the period of reduced LotR activity to produce new ranges far in advance. GW sits on a whole pile of army books/codexes and finished masters and has the flexibility to alter their release schedule seamlessly. The next two releases (Warriors of Chaos and Dark Angels) follow the old pattern, but the next two releases (Tau and Eldar) after these are deployed in the new fashion.
The Tau Codex was pushed back because of this, but only the book. The first batch of models will be released even earlier than planned (maybe even this year) – and yes, there are Kroots and no, there is no Lamprey – this whole set of rumours is 105% fake.
GW has tighten their information policy for all releases around the end of the year. This includes everything not just the Hobbit stuff because one major source of info are business plans and logistics tables that are shared with subsidiaries and external companies. Most unregulated sources sit at one of those joints. The blackout period lasts from October to February and ends there because it is not sustainable for a long time. There will be no wave of fliers this year outside of the blackout period (my source does not know if one is planned for this period or not, but if it is the info is definitely not avaible for regional distributors - whatever that is).
One last bit: GW has buried the plastic character stop gap and switched to multi-part finecast kits, with emphasis on “multi-part”. The sheer number of bit of these kits is on par with plastic releases. The first kit will be the re-modeled Avatar. The four Greater Demons are worked on. All of them will be larger than their predecessors and come with a lot of variety.
Oct- Starter set possibly, if not,flyer wave with Voidraiven, Tau Lamprey, maybe another.
November- Fantasy, New 40k terrain.
December- the Hobbit, paint bundles etc.
Logan wrote:The name Lamprey is by no means official. Its entirely possible that will not be its name. Also possible it wont be released till codex.
And yes I meant the harpy haha. I just couldnt remember its name.
Logan wrote:Its not an official name. But i hear things....
Logan wrote:Yea i have TONS of info on tau. From the new characters to the Assault Crisis Suits....and i have even heard the rumor NO MORE KROOT!
Logan wrote:I cant tell if the NO KROOT! rumor is true but it makes sense. I am lets say VERY invoved with the playtesting process of the codex and I have seen no kroot units. Shhhhhhhh dont panic.
Logan wrote:Talking to guy whonis higher up than me in an email here is what he said " Now Logan, I have received your emails regarding your next project. You asked why there has been a lack of a certain unit(Kroot) all I can tell is that right now it is being heatedly discussed wether to keep them in our upcoming release. We want this book to refelct the primary army, not necessarily other "mercanary" forces. When we sort it out we promise to let you have a peak.
Thank you for your concerns and comments regarding this matter."
Logan wrote:As for the "Lamprey" iam not sure yet. But the assault crisis suits have expirimental rules where once per game they gain BOTH benefits of moving with their jump things(unamed at the moment) which lets them move 12in. Then reroll assault distamce if desired. If the first attempted charge is successful you gain Furious Charge.
The "no Kroot" rumor follows closely with the rumors about requiring different HQs to "unlock" certain units, mostly alien race units, as Troops.
I could imagine there being a Tau proper book with a series of small allies lists in White Dwarf, which would effectively operate in the way previous rumors discussed.
While I can accept the possibility that all things are discussed in the play testing stage, GW have pretty much said that all existing models will continue to be supported in the rules so as not to invoke the ire of the community who buy this stuff.
I hope Kroot aren't dropped, or they get a half-decent Kroot Mercenaries list in WD. I doubt GW would stop selling a plastic kit when they could continue to.
I don't like it. This would be a total fluff reversal/retcon to suddenly have 'assault' crisis suits and no alien auxiliaries to make up for the tau's lack of CC.
I personally like the idea of Assault oriented crisis suits. Nothing says they have to all have swords and shields. They could have flachette launchers and reactive armor and such.
I stopped my aspirations to make a Tau list the moment I realized I couldn't make a legitimate all suit army. Hopefully GW will allow players to make a Tau version of the deathwing and including an assault option would be important.
As for Kroot leaving, we know they aren't pleased with the way the Kroot work in their organization. A seperate army for Kroot could be interesting. Especially with the new allies rules.
Could just make a mercenaries book down the road with a focus on Tau, Squats, etc.
I'm not buying it. Kroot were designed to be placed alongside Tau, why would they remove them? Moreover, why would they release an "assault" battlesuit in an edition where assaults have been heavily nerfed?
Flashman wrote:While I can accept the possibility that all things are discussed in the play testing stage, GW have pretty much said that all existing models will continue to be supported in the rules so as not to invoke the ire of the community who buy this stuff.
They have also said that rules will only be released in the Codices/Rulebook and not White Dwarf...so, take what they say with a grain of salt.
Tau could be designed with the new 6th edition allies rules in mind, such that Kroot, Vespid etc get their own mercenary sub-codexes, which Tau (and possibly even other races) can then ally with.
I'm taking this with a BIG grain of salt. If true this guy is on a fast track to getting a notification from GW about violation of his NDA.
But having assault suits wouldn't surprise me. They can be sold for a decent amount/packed in a multirole box with base suit and different sprues. And GW thinks assaults are super cool (see also rumor of assault Obliterators).
Mmm. Seems unlikely, (and an extrordinarily easy one for GW to trace given that he's actually asked the higher ups before posting a rumour) but maybe they'll have a "Kroot codex" in the book that you can take as an allied contingent?
Kroothawk wrote:How do you add this to the rumour track record: "There will be a Tau flyer named Lamprey or not, that will be released this year or not."
And I don't trust play testers who post the GW emails they receive. Esp. when they say "No Kroot".
I love that we're making rumor mongers hedge their bets. lol It just makes them look bad when they do that kind of thing.
Oh and it might not be a Tau flyer, he might have misremembered and it might be a harpy.
So white dwarf Kroot codex? I would love that, gives em their own special love and allows greater opportunity for other WD armies. As long as they are included in Tau normally though and not an ally for tau.
No Kroot, I don't buy it for a second. That'd be the equivalent of the Dark Angels dropping the Ravenwing or Deathwing. Hope you enjoy your five minutes of fame Logan, you have my permission to fade away now.
FrozenSoul80 wrote:I'm not buying it. Kroot were designed to be placed alongside Tau, why would they remove them?
Actually they weren't,,, Way back when GW decided to add a new race they designed 3 separate races... Tau, Kroot, and Demiurge... and ultimately decided to put the best parts of each into a single codex. The kroot mercenary list that was released in WD at one point was mostly what GW had put together had the Kroot remained conceptually separate. That said I don't think the Kroot will be separated, unless it is to give them their own book.
Although, I don't really need any assault suits in my list, (ork or space marine allies for my tau ) it sounds like an awesome idea, especially if they put the pieces to make an assault suit in the same box as the normal crisis suits. My dream box, a 3 pack like the killakans box containing pieces to make assault suits, broadsides, and normal suits! I am super excited for a flier though!
This is the exact opposite of what I was hoping to see, one of the primary draws of the army for me is the use of auxillaries.....I want more not less.
If they dropped Kroot, but kept the models, would that mean a Codex: Mercenaries would be in the works? Kroot, Squats, Ogrin, Beastmen, Ratlings, and so on?
Logan wrote:Talking to guy whonis higher up than me in an email here is what he said
" Now Logan, I have received your emails regarding your next project. You asked why there has been a lack of a certain unit(Kroot) all I can tell is that right now it is being heatedly discussed wether to keep them in our upcoming release. We want this book to refelct the primary army, not necessarily other "mercanary" forces. When we sort it out we promise to let you have a peak.
Thank you for your concerns and comments regarding this matter."
if this guy is for real and he just posted a communication like that, it's probably sufficiently unique to insta-out him to GW rumoursquashers.
even if he's for real, he's not the brightest bulb ever.
I can see a mercenaries codex/list/whatever working, though. if the Allies rule makes sense for anyone, it's for Tau...
40K is lacking in mercenaries. With the advent of the Allies rules Mercs make sense.
GW could then add new Mercs whenever with the rules for the new troop in White Dwarf. When they have enough of them out they could then compile them into a real codex, or web add on.
Kal-El wrote:No kroot? Gw just made finecast kroot. So there will be rules for them somewhere...otherwise gw would not have included them in the release.
I agree, GW keeps released products for at least 2 years. Although personally I think it was a mistake they the Jokero Weaponsmith was made in metal right before finecast came out.
WHFB got "sorcerous pacts" (not sure if this is the right name in english) in Storm of Magic. Why not getting something similar in 40k? We have some hints that GW hasn't forgotten minor races: rulebook speaks about abhumans, squats are mentioned again, we even have a new hrud drawing. That could mean a codex:mercenaries (maybe standalone, maybe through WD) to use as Allies. They just need a few rule changes only in case you use this "codex" (for example, no HQ required).
Or closer to WHFB, a new expansion about mercenaries with its own allies FOC in case you play this expansion.
I do doubt the legitimacy of these rumors.. (lolphrase) but if they are true I would imagine a book or white dwarf issue dedicated to something along the lines of..
-Sorcerous Pacts-
- Dogs of War -
- Allies Appendix -
There's plenty they could use.. random military elements, eldar corsairs or pirates, summoned demons, freebootaz, hive gangers.. etc.
I've always wondered how a Scryer Gang would fare in a 40k army.
Logan wrote:Talking to guy whonis higher up than me in an email here is what he said
" Now Logan, I have received your emails regarding your next project. You asked why there has been a lack of a certain unit(Kroot) all I can tell is that right now it is being heatedly discussed wether to keep them in our upcoming release. We want this book to refelct the primary army, not necessarily other "mercanary" forces. When we sort it out we promise to let you have a peak.
Thank you for your concerns and comments regarding this matter."
if this guy is for real and he just posted a communication like that, it's probably sufficiently unique to insta-out him to GW rumoursquashers.
even if he's for real, he's not the brightest bulb ever.
I can see a mercenaries codex/list/whatever working, though. if the Allies rule makes sense for anyone, it's for Tau...
Also the writing & spelling of the guy "that is higher up than him" is rather suspect, making me fear for the Tau codex if he truly is involved
I haven't seen this guy before, so i'm not sure how trustworthy he is, but what he has said seems more like trolling or at least highly unlikely to me.
The thing about:
We want this book to refelct the primary army, not necessarily other "mercenary" forces
Seems completed strange to me. It's a Tau Empire Codex, not just Tau. They aren't all Mercenaries either.
The way some of it is worded just seems untrustworthy to me, as well as quite a few spelling mistakes in that supposed E-mail (You'd think they'd at least bother to read what they've written before they send it) He says he's heard rumors about no Kroot, but then he changes his mind and says he's seen no evidence of Kroot, and then comes up with an 'e-mail' with an explanation which just happens to justify everything he's said.
The whole wording of that E-mail is absurd to me, itjust matches exactly what information he wants people to hear like he wrote it himself. If you are sending an e-mail to someone in reply to a question, do you really tell them:
1. Straight away tell them who they are, incase they forget.
2. You have received the E-mail which you are now sending a reply to
3. What they asked in the first place, as if they wouldn't know what they asked.
4. Tell them you can't say anything, but then tell them more.
5. You'll definitely provide them more information in the future, which gives them a reason to suddenly provide more rumors at some point.
Wouldn't there be some sort of NDA for these things as well, and he's just given quite a lot of information?
I really think this is nonsense. If this guy really is involved in the play testing of the tau codex, and the email he said he received is genuine, then he will very quickly find himself "uninvolved". Posting the email (if genuine) more or less identifies himself.
Cottonjaw wrote:Yeaaah.. I have 60 fully painted kroot carnivores. If Kroot aren't in the 'dex, I'm going to be more than a little pissed.
hehe. It wouldn't be the first time that a big unit like that disappeared from a codex. Sisters lost Redemptionists when we moved to C:WH. Guess who had 60+ painted (metal, bitz ordered) redemptionists?
Luckily they gave us guard allies, so I ended up converting them. I imagine something similar will be possible with kroot if they disappear.
Druidic wrote:Have never used kroot with my Tau, so I'd be the only person not missing them!
I used them in 5th as a cheap scoring unit in cover but I planned on retiring them from my army (and in fact removed them from my carrying case). Overwatch by marines (my usual opponent army) with bolters vs a no-save t3 unit and lower forest cover pushed them out. I used the spot for my wretched allies contingent of eldar rangers and farseer. That being said, I don't personally believe this particular set of rumors.
I'm not lending much credence to this set of Tau rumors. Remember the ghost21 fabrications about a year ago? Additionally, the "e-mail" is wrought with grammatical and spelling errors, which usually points to a fabrication. I'm not saying it's a surefire thing, but I definitely agree with Mentlegen. It just smells fishy. Also, in terms of the assault suit, I just don't see it happening, same with the elimination of the Kroot. Not to mention he didn't even include the Vespid in his statement, either. So, unless Tau are getting massively retconned, I don't see it happening. But, thinking about it, I'm also wondering if maybe there is a shread of truth to this rumor, and it's different than we're thinking about. Perhaps what this Logan guy has seen are rules for the Farsight Enclave, which I could see as having assault suits and no Kroot. Could it be a WD expansion similar to next month's Daemons release? Who knows...I'm just wildly speculating. For now, I'm just going to file this away along with the other rumors until we get something a little more concrete than a random guy who is a supposed playtester.
Drop a plastic kit completely (with no replacement, that is)? I just don’t see them doing it. If their intent is to do a full Kroot army, thereby allowing the Allies rules to take care of this issue, then fine, but I can’t see them just dropping the Kroot out completely like that.
SickSix wrote:I don't like it. This would be a total fluff reversal/retcon to suddenly have 'assault' crisis suits and no alien auxiliaries to make up for the tau's lack of CC.
What you mean like Necrons? Its not like it hasnt happened before.
spectreoneone wrote:So, unless Tau are getting massively retconned...
Well if a certain someone ends up being the book’s author, that is a possibility. Then you combine that possibility with the rumours of ‘assault Crisis Suits’ and we might not be that far away from “Pulse Blades” and “Pulse Fists” and so on.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote:Glad we're keeping things real.
Wouldn't 'keeping it real' be the acknowledgement of criticism rather than the denial that anything is wrong with Ward’s work?
And I think I just got a combo-multiplier for four ‘w’ words in a row! Yeah!
“What wasn’t wrong with Ward’s woefully wretched written words?”
And then I think I get a ‘check mate’ or a ‘go fish’ or something because I doubt there’s a response with 10 ‘w’ words. I’m not sure. The rules to this game are confusing. Would that fill my starpower meter?
It might fill your starpower meter... but there is no known use other that helping google cute cat memes
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and Tau, I for one wont miss Kroot... mainly because I haven't really connected with them like our deal old Frenchies... I mean tau.
kronk wrote:If they dropped Kroot, but kept the models, would that mean a Codex: Mercenaries would be in the works? Kroot, Squats, Ogrin, Beastmen, Ratlings, and so on?
This would be awesome.
The only problem is that my Dark Angels don't like abhumans, and I would really want both Squats and Beastmen as allies.
Oh, also, the super "W" posts were pretty dang impressive.
This Logan comes across as a Kroot fanboi trying to create buzz for some type of a stand alone Codex in which the Kroot are prominently featured.
The way he put quotes around the word mercenary in the, (not necessarily other "mercenary" forces) portion of the suppossed email is what leads me to beleive that this is some kinda of campaign for a mercenary codex.
The rest of the wording in his posts use the first person in a self-glorifying manner that is almost disconcerting.
Imo, if gw were to do such a thing, the Tau player base would feel disenfranchised/marginalized to the point that there would be a noticable backlash(Backlash=Loss of sales to the point of the relase being a flop).
The only way that such Tau codex could make money would be if they made assault batttlesuits and battlesuits as troops to draw in all of the Space Marine Fanbois.
(Sarcasm)
I can see it now, Tau: Grey Knights 2.0 *shudder*
Instead of the unimaginative nightmare of Tau being Xenos Guard, "The Fluff-Killer" brings us the unimaginative nightmare concept of Xenos Space Marines.
I could see GW taking this route as opposed to actually working to create a balanced xenos force with a fairly unique playstyle.
This would of course be combined with the insult of the Tau becoming a protectorate of the Ultra Marines.
While this in turn makes them the first official xenos chater of the Astartes, they can no longer make use of Kroot or Vespid allies due to the Imperiums anti-xenos policies.(/Sarcasm)
I have very a hard time believing that GW would ever do such a thing.
pretre wrote:
Cottonjaw wrote:
Yeaaah.. I have 60 fully painted kroot carnivores. If Kroot aren't in the 'dex, I'm going to be more than a little pissed.
hehe. It wouldn't be the first time that a big unit like that disappeared from a codex. Sisters lost Redemptionists when we moved to C:WH.
Pretre, you come across as almost trolling here. Whatsupwitdat? Is it due to some dislike for the Tau,... that if it happened to your army then it should happen to another ....or just another case of the interwebs not conveying the real intent?
Edited to replace "r's" eaten by the quotation deamons
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote:
SickSix wrote:Well whatever wretched Ward would write, wouldn't work without wrecking wonderfully written wonders.
Sick six simply sees strange simplification since sick six still says silly slightly-supported suppositions sans serious sentiment.
I just doubt someone who play-tests would come on here and post E-mails between play-tester and project leads. I sure as hell never did that for any of the FFG books I've play-tested.
And if they did do that, well then they wouldn't be a play-tester for very much longer.
Finecast Kroot?! Makes absolutely no sense to put resources into retooling moulds for resin models when those models are phased out in X months.
Also, at the Design Studio Open Day I was lucky enough to speak to Jervis Johnson & Simon Grant who stated first-hand that almost all the VIth edition codicies (whether WD or books) are pretty much ready to be released now and will have an accelerated release pattern of every 1-2 months. I can't imagine that 'books that are ready to go are still in the proccess of having units added or removed which would totally mess with the balance of that race.
" Now Logan, I have received your emails regarding your next project. You asked why there has been a lack of a certain unit(Kroot) all I can tell
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ^ NEEDS PUNCTUATION OR CONJUNCTION
is that right now it is being heatedly discussed wether to keep them in our upcoming release. We want this book to refelct the primary army, not
..........................................................................................^ WHETHER .................................................................................................^ REFLECT
necessarily other "mercanary" forces. When we sort it out we promise to let you have a peak.
....................................... ^ MERCENARY ........................................................................................ ^ PEEK
Thank you for your concerns and comments regarding this matter."
I do like the idea of assistants who help suits and FW in close combat. Something like drones or more hit and run ability. Something that allows you to auto shoot overwatch with full BS as well. Anything to deter the enemy charging you and also be able to extricate yourself as soon as it hits.
lazarian wrote:I do like the idea of assistants who help suits and FW in close combat. Something like drones or more hit and run ability. Something that allows you to auto shoot overwatch with full BS as well. Anything to deter the enemy charging you and also be able to extricate yourself as soon as it hits.
Something similar to this makes sense. The Tau, with all of their technological advancement, could conceivably create some sort of wargear that allows a battlesuit to fire overwatch shots at full BS, but about the closest I see the Tau getting to CC battlesuits is the XV9. It's a little tougher and a little heavier than the XV8, and it designated a close support suit that has VRTs and defensive grenades built in. It is an awesome interdiction unit, and it can carry some heavy firepower compared to the XV8, but I'm not sure that the weapons that FW equipped them with would make it to the new Tau codex. The only other option I could see the Tau utilizing is, as has previously been mentioned, some sort of CC drone unit.
Desubot wrote:Also aren’t remoras a type of lamprey?
Naw. Lampreys are jawless parasitic fish. A remora is a fish that uses a sucker on its forehead to hold on to a shark. It is neither jawless nor parasitic, as it doesn't harm the sharks they hang out with...more like scavengers who pick up the scraps.
That being said, it's most likely that GW will not copy the FW kit. That's why we probably also won't see the XV9, at least not in the same capacity as FW has created it.
There are often many things going on behind the scenes of this site, and most conversations do not ever see the light of day for many reasons.This is the second conversation piece that I have been giving permission to post up on the site.
A few days back a reader on this site, Logan (who is rumored to be a play tester), brought up the fact that he had not seen any Kroot in the Tau Play tests he had been apart of. He concluded that in the upcoming Tau codex we would not be seeing any Kroot. This conversation is not with him, but with someone I must keep anonymous.
Once again, just to be clear, this conversation piece was not with Logan, and is from a completely different unrelated source (not a play tester).
Please understand, If any parts of this seem missing or feel like things were removed or moved around, its because they were. This is the part of the conversation that I was given permission to share here on the site.
Conversation Behind the Scenes: (The not me part, and must remain anonymous source)
There is a strong desire to add new and interesting ways to use allies, beyond just mixing and matching existing armies.
In a recent iteration of the Tau playtest material Kroot were removed as one developer felt that tables looked "clutterd" and tau armies looked "rag-tag" when using Allies, at the same time as Kroot and Vespid.
This was seconded by it being suggested that Space Marines for instance, may have a willingness to work with Tau, but might react poorly to the barbaric Xenos that are Kroot.
This expanded into the idea of making mini-dexes that are not designed to stand on their own. Army lists with 1-2 HQ options, 1 troop option, and only 1 of each other slot, or even some slots completely ignored.
These lists would be released in White Dwarf along with all the models necessary if they currently didn't exist. These "splats" would be easy to physically design and produce, so the idea has taken some root.
While it would be possible to play an entire army using one of these lists, it would not be balanced and would be missing lots of tools and have huge gaps. Normally this is a design issue, but could be easily overlooked in this instance.
The first idea for a list such as this is Kroot, who could therefore have a different allegiance level with Tau and Space Marines and still end up on the same table in games of 2k+.
This would add to the cinematic worth where Tau are not commanding Kroot, but instead a Shaper would have his own warband since as Allies it would require an HQ.
This would also start bringing into question interesting relationships between the levels of allegiance in terms of where these chunks of the army could be on the battlefield. Tau being battle brothers with both, but Space Marines being Desperate with Kroot.
Potentially this could allow all sorts of sub-races, or existing ideas which cannot be fully fleshed out into entire armies to find their way into this edition. Who knows, if something takes hold it could later be expanded upon in the same way.
This is SO early though, so it's all very much so subject to change.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Natfka
It almost seems like GW is two to three steps ahead of us now. It used to feel like the community was ahead of the curve, but I think they may have turned it on us, and all we can do is play catch up. I'm amazed at what the plans are for this edition.
Basically this would simply remove one of the founding ideas that made Tau unique. I honestly hope if this is true that Tau and Kroot still get some higher level of working cooperation than the current allies chart.
Either that or the Tau codex is being written in such a way there is no need for kroot melee screens (Assault Crisis Suits). This also seems to put a hamper on getting new allies if true unless GW is going to release mini-dexes of Terallians and Demiurg for EVERYONE to use. Which again, this further diminishes the uniqueness of Tau getting a lot of allies only they have access to. But I could be surprised, Allies chart goes against all reason and logic so maybe GW will make them Tau ally only and defy our expectations.
I'm rather skeptical. If GW were to take this route, it would probably mean that the Tau are in for a major retcon, and it's going to destroy the uniqueness of the army. I'm plenty happy with Tau not being a top-tier army, because I don't want to see a bunch of bandwagoners hop on the Tau train because it's the new killer army. We don't really need very many new units, we just really need a few new pieces of wargear and a slight aesthetic overhaul of our battlesuits, and we're golden!
Im not a fan of this idea personally. Combined with the increase in price with the rumored switch to hardcover codex format plus the price of a White Dwarf or two (who knows if vespid would get their own, then demiurg, etc on top of the kroot one), this would more than double the price of a "codex" just to use the figs you already own. Call me simple but I liked the fact that tau were the only race with other races built in as "allies" due to their unique ethos.
RiTides wrote:I think mini-lists would be awesome, personally! Pretty genius move if they follow through on it, imo.
1.) It increases White Dwarf sales. Mini Dexes would make you want to buy white dwarf.
2.) It paves the way for partial armies like Kroot, Vespid, Demiurg, etc...
I don't put much stock in rumors, but I do drop into those that have to do with my armies. Which is why I am here I have to say when some one say assault having to do with any other army I think CC. When someone says assault with Tau I think of close range high RoF weaponry like twin linked burst cannons etc. I will be happy and keep this as my idea instead of thinking about Tau suddenly wanting to mix it up in CC. Only place that a CC assault suit would make sense would be an unlock for Farsight. Which I would be fine with
As much as I usually hate things GW does that seem to just be to sell more things, I feel like mini-dexes in WD would be a good thing. That way, people get new rules and stuff given to them over time, not just once every few years when they get a new 'dex. It's like how Privateer Press releases new models and rules and expansions, it gives people more things to buy and more fun rules to use. Just my 2 cents.
Mini-dexes? So it is a return to the old chapter approved but much, much worse.
As it is currently described this is a horrible idea, then on top of it they are going to butcher the Tau codex and the Tau fluff in order to launch this new strategy/scam.
[sarcasm]
Yeah, I see that there is already support for this idea in this thread, ....By low post count GW employees paid to drum up support for the companies latest scam or by Tau haters.[/sarcasm]
My question to those of you that "like" this idea, "How would you feel if they did such to your favorite army?". Lets say that they:
Start cutting major portions out of the IG like Storm Troopers, Snipers, Ogryn and Vendettas...just so they can release them in mini-dexes that everyone can use.
Remove Techmarines, Servitors, Thunderfire cannons and Terminators from the SMs just so they can sell an underwhelming admech add-on of units you used to have but not it is 10 extra dollars and all marine chapters can get them.
Make each type of Ork a seperate White dwarf add on. You want to use your nob or Manz models, well ya gotta wait for the White Dwarf
Make it to where you have to buy three seperate white dwarfs just to play a viable Eldar army. This is on top of your $50 hard back codex that is now only has 16 units. They Take all of the units needed to make corsairs out of your codex just to sell the rules to use them a year or to later.
The list goes on. Those that favor this mini-dex idea, that as stated is an excuse to remove content from the codices just so GW can charge more for rules that should already be in the books, are the kind of individual that P.T.Barnum wanted as customers.
[/rant]
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vain wrote:
Dantalian wrote:Pretty awesome idea for boosting sales at the cost of Fluff, which seems to be GW's new thing over the last year.
I'm not quite seeing the "..at the cost of Fluff" part. Could you please elaborate?
The Tau as first envisioned and written, were the only race to be inclusive when concerning alien members in their Empire. Ankhor Prok was able to command Tau units and it was suggested in the fluff that their were other alien auxilla that occupied positions of authority.
Also, if not for the Tau, the Kroot would have been wiped out. Ankhor Prok signed his kindreds to the joining and service of the Tau Empire out of gratitude and a realization of the benefit of an alliance with the Tau.
The proposed Krootbotomy and removal of the Vespid would undermine the primary keystone of the Tau as aspiring good guys that want to work with other races to protect the Galaxy from Chaos, Tyranids and other such threats.
What is being proposed is akin to removing the geneseed/emperors offspring portion of the SM fluff, having ork weapon make sense or sisters no longer have faith.
Yeah, its that big of a deal to the Tau fluff.
I think possible new assault units would have to come as some sort of unlock with Farsight (since he's into that sorta thing), or possibly be using some funky in-your-face weaponry that 'simulates' melee combat while still being shooty (eg. flechette weapons that have high strength but low AP, and are like 6" range but can be used in close combat).
Would make more sense for races like Kroot and Vespid to stick around as auxillaries.... would be easy to work out a melee-focused Kroot squad of trained Kroot hounds and a couple of handlers, or how about a Vespid assault squad that has like lances or spears or something?
Kroothawk wrote:Posted today by Natfka onFaeit 212:
Behind the Scenes: A New Take On Allies
In a recent iteration of the Tau playtest material Kroot were removed as one developer felt that tables looked "clutterd" and tau armies looked "rag-tag" when using Allies, at the same time as Kroot and Vespid.
This was seconded by it being suggested that Space Marines for instance, may have a willingness to work with Tau, but might react poorly to the barbaric Xenos that are Kroot.
This expanded into the idea of making mini-dexes that are not designed to stand on their own. Army lists with 1-2 HQ options, 1 troop option, and only 1 of each other slot, or even some slots completely ignored.
These lists would be released in White Dwarf along with all the models necessary if they currently didn't exist. These "splats" would be easy to physically design and produce, so the idea has taken some root.
While it would be possible to play an entire army using one of these lists, it would not be balanced and would be missing lots of tools and have huge gaps. Normally this is a design issue, but could be easily overlooked in this instance.
The first idea for a list such as this is Kroot, who could therefore have a different allegiance level with Tau and Space Marines and still end up on the same table in games of 2k+.
This would add to the cinematic worth where Tau are not commanding Kroot, but instead a Shaper would have his own warband since as Allies it would require an HQ.
Additional lists in WD are fine. But to move parts of existing codices to a 'splash release' ? these splash thingies go away and them youre stuck without a legal source ( WDOOP ). Plus IIRC allies allows to take from 1 list only for a contingent, no matter how many you can have. A Tau codex had to add something to the allies rules, or you can't mix Tau, Kroot and another ally in a legal army list. Maybe the concept of allies would be better as a expansion, including the lists and available for the life cycle of the edition.
I don't think that Kroot or Vespid will be removed from the codex. The Fluff section of the BRB mentions both Auxiliaries in the Tau Empire section. There are other races mentioned but none that say they send forces with the Tau as Auxiliary forces.
They need to leave the kroot in AND do a kroot merc list. The kroot merc list should be desperate or not before the apoc with the tau based on background... I.e. the tau do not know or approve of the merc thing.
RiTides wrote:I think mini-lists would be awesome, personally! Pretty genius move if they follow through on it, imo.
Pretty awesome idea for boosting sales at the cost of Fluff, which seems to be GW's new thing over the last year.
Give this poster first prize.
If you take away the auxiliaries from Tau you might as well take away Space Marine powered armour. It's one of the central design aspects to the Tau. The option to pay extra money to get back all the options you had last codex doesn't mitigate that.
Frankly I'd be skeptical because it's just such mind-bogglingly crass money-grab. Then I remembered this was Games Workshop, makers of FINECAST, and I abandoned my skepticism.
I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
The cheap, jaded money-grab, if anything, would be if they didn't change things and just sold you some updated rules without putting any new creative effort into it.
They don't. Big thumbs up for GW from me.
I love the old fluff as much as anyone. But... I've already read the old fluff. If I'll pay for a new book, getting a new take on the Tau (or any other faction) gives me greater value for my money. And the greater the changes in the background that they demonstrate, the greater will be the scope (and the example) for hobbyists to tinker with the background themselves, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse hobby for everyone.
Besides, the old fluff will still be there whatever happens. Noone's gonna steal your old books.
Pay attention to the Tau battleforce. If they start removing kroot from here, that would be the sign this could happen. Else, why would they sell a battleforce with a unit not in the upcoming codex? Just sayin'.
stinkyjunk wrote:Pay attention to the Tau battleforce. If they start removing kroot from here, that would be the sign this could happen. Else, why would they sell a battleforce with a unit not in the upcoming codex? Just sayin'.
The Tau battleforce is so old though. They probably wont change it until the month before they release the new codex which probably isnt ready for a year or so
Prodigalson wrote:They need to leave the kroot in AND do a kroot merc list. The kroot merc list should be desperate or not before the apoc with the tau based on background... I.e. the tau do not know or approve of the merc thing.
That would be pretty cool, they could do that with Ork Freebootas and Eldar Corsairs too.
I get why people are upset about the WD list rumor because of it being Kroot, but if it were something else, which I have to imagine it will be over time, does it really bother you that much to have to pay for some new rules and units? If they released a small list of Demiurg or Hrud or something that was new, would you still be mad because it's "just a way to sell more things?"
I feel kind of dirty for defending GW, but I feel like they deserve it in this case.
Except it's not a new unit and rules, like a flier. It's a standard unit in our army. Like if they took scouts out of all SM armies and sold them as a separate unit in a WD where the rules will become unavailable when it goes out of circulation.
Zweischneid wrote:I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
It's not antipathy to changes in the background. It's antipathy to changes in army design. The option of auxiliaries is a core component of the Tau, and has been since their first incarnation. To take them out is to fundamentally change the army and invalidate many players' model collections. To "put them back in" through an additional purchase is just absurd. Imagine the gnashing of teeth that would follow if in the next edition Rhino chassis vehicles were removed from the Space Marine codex and put in a splash release rulebook, and players could only play their existing Rhino vehicles if they bought both rule sets.
I agree with the advent of the Allies rules this allows for Mercs to be added which would allow them to expand and fill in fluff gaps with Xeno mercs. This allows them to add Xenos which has been a problem IMHO. It also GW, a new revenue source without having to do much work.
Zweischneid wrote:I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
I don't get this antipathy towards established background and tradition.(See how easy that is.)
Zweischneid wrote:The cheap, jaded money-grab, if anything, would be if they didn't change things and just sold you some updated rules without putting any new creative effort into it.
They don't. Big thumbs up for GW from me.
Uh, no. The cheap jaded money grab is not about new fluff, it is about the destruction of established backstory in a blatant attempt to double and triple charge for the rules to use already established models/units. You see, there is a difference between "new backstory" and "removing critical theme elements" from the established design of an army. These two things are not synonomous.
And, yes they do. GW constantly sells rules that contain no real new creative material/backstory, This is why it is still the 41st millenium.
Now, they do sell rules for new models/units that usually force the player to break models apart to re-equip them.
Again, this is different from removing core background and units that the player can only get back for an additional charge.
(Speculation)
Maybe, if these were free updates that you could download and put into your rulebook, then it would be ok,. Except for the probable 1-2 year inconvenience of not having rules for your models, that is. Asking/requiring us to pay extra for rules that should be in the base codex is definitely a money scam.
Remember, GW is a Model company and the riles are just promotional materials, the fact that we even pay for these base rules is a bit silly. Now, if GW were a game company that sold models, it would be a bit different. But then they would be expected to write/create a balanced game system and we all know that GW doesn't want to put that much effort into their business.
Zweischneid wrote:I love the old fluff as much as anyone. But... I've already read the old fluff. If I'll pay for a new book, getting a new take on the Tau (or any other faction) gives me greater value for my money. And the greater the changes in the background that they demonstrate, the greater will be the scope (and the example) for hobbyists to tinker with the background themselves, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse hobby for everyone.
Besides, the old fluff will still be there whatever happens. Noone's gonna steal your old books.
Ok, the highlighted section. If you really love the old fluff, there would not be a "but".
Having read something doesn't degrade its quality, it just means that it is no longer new to you. You are words here are typical of the "disposable" generation. This, If its not new then it has no value mentality. IMO, This is a frightening attitude, it is the locust mentality.
Your last sentence, the casual dismissal is a bit disingenuous. Yeah, the old fluff is there, but the old units are no longer in your army until yout,the player, pay an extortion fee to get the rest of your rules.
MandalorynOranj wrote:I get why people are upset about the WD list rumor because of it being Kroot, but if it were something else, which I have to imagine it will be over time, does it really bother you that much to have to pay for some new rules and units? If they released a small list of Demiurg or Hrud or something that was new, would you still be mad because it's "just a way to sell more things?"
I feel kind of dirty for defending GW, but I feel like they deserve it in this case.
1-yes it does bother me.
2-Its not new units, just new rules that I would have to pay a premium/surcharge in order to use existing models/units
3-Yes, I would be irritated if GW was deliberately shorting me on content(Holding back already completed units) just to force me to buy a magazine later.
Now if GW wants to update our codices periodically and release nice codex supplements like they did with the Chaos deamons, I would not mind so much, but that is not what the rumor is suggesting.
In other words, think of your favorite army, now imagine that it has been neglected to the point of having only 1-2 semi-viable builds.
Then GW releases a new core ruleset that benefits your army but not quite enough to make up for the old points costs.
Finally, GW releases your codex but your army only comes out with 1-2 semi0viable builds and they removed basic units that made the army thematically unique, telling you that you have to pay extra to get what other armies get in their codex.
You should feel dirty for defending your employ-...uh GW in this instance.
(Supposing the rumor is true)
I think the thing that bothers me most about the rumor as posted, was that one designer suddenly decides that the Tau look rag-rag and he then sort of pushes/goads the other developers to adopt his view. If rumor is true then I wonder if this develper was the fluff-killer himself? Whoever it might be, there is a lot of arrogance in doing such a drastic change based on a visual preference. Wonder what would happen if this individual didn't like the boxy crisis suits?
(/supposition)
Thing is that the Tau forces are supposed to be rag-tag. It is a small Empire using every resource that it can to stay alive. They should look like the rebel alliance, not the Galactic Empire or the Trade Federation.(Yes, I now that they look a lot like the Trade Federation in both physical and technical aspects but think of what the Trade Federation might have looked like in its infancy.....think Venetian Merchant mercenary armies from the late dark ages/early rennaisance.
Zweischneid wrote:I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
I don't get this antipathy towards established background and tradition.(See how easy that is.)
There is no antipathy. Just saying that you'll never know if there's not better stuff out there if you never try. I think I explicitly said I like the old fluff too, so your attempt at mirror-logic sorta there.
Captain Avatar wrote:
You see, there is a difference between "new backstory" and "removing critical theme elements" from the established design of an army. These two things are not synonomous.
And, yes they do. GW constantly sells rules that contain no real new creative material/backstory, This is why it is still the 41st millenium.
Well, maybe they should switch it up once in a while and update Codexes with new fluff but unchanged rules. What makes new rules a "legitimate" update but new fluff an "illegitimate" one? Why does enjoying the latter make me a locust of a "disposable" generation while enjoying the former does not?
Captain Avatar wrote:
Ok, the highlighted section. If you really love the old fluff, there would not be a "but".
Having read something doesn't degrade its quality, it just means that it is no longer new to you. You are words here are typical of the "disposable" generation. This, If its not new then it has no value mentality. IMO, This is a frightening attitude, it is the mentality of locusts, not humans.
Your last sentence, the casual dismissal is a bit disingenuous. Yeah, the old fluff is there, but the old units are no longer in your army until yout,the player, pay an extortion fee to get the rest of your rules.
I still don't get it
If change per se is an "inconvencience" to you, why embrace it at all? I want a new Codex so that I can have (i) new rules, (ii) new models and (iii) new fluff. Hell, I could probably do without the new rules.
If I want to play with my old models (e.g. Kroot) using the old fluff, I'd just stick with the old Codex! Updating one out of the above three seems hardly worth the investment of a new book to me. Save yourself the trouble. I have no objection to anyone who doesn't want to move up, But if you clamor for new rules like it's some sort of guarantieed entitlement that GW owns you, while simultaneously disparaging new models as infernal money-grab and new fluff as personally offensive to your sensibilities, than that does strike me as hypocrisy of the highest order.
Either way, I consider myself a hobbyist above all. I keep with GW for fresh fluff and fresh models that I can purchase. For all I care, the rules are certainly the last thing that matters (seriously, who plays 40K for the rules?). If they'd quit updating rule for those "locus-gamers" who keep shouting for fixes for every little kink they seemingly are incapable of house-ruling, the aspects of the hobby that matter might actually become quite a bit cheaper in the end.
If WD Mini Codex format means we can get Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer cult rules I'm all for it.
Kroot Min Dex means you can play ALL Kroot, or Kroot Allies. I'm not seeing how that's really any different from how it is now, other than you would have the rules in two different books.
adamsouza wrote:If WD Mini Codex format means we can get Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer cult rules I'm all for it.
Kroot Min Dex means you can play ALL Kroot, or Kroot Allies. I'm not seeing how that's really any different from how it is now, other than you would have the rules in two different books.
The difference is that you have to buy, carry, and use rules in two books instead of one just to get utility from figures that have existed for over a decade and have been an established part of that codex from their first appearance with rules. If they just kept the basic kroot jumble unit we currently had but then expounded on it like they did in 3rd edition with a full kroot merc list in WD, that'd be fine. Taking units *AWAY* from a codex is different from *CREATING* new units for a WD list. I'm not seeing how you can't see the difference.
It's because now every army becomes several races united in one army.
But mostly because the idea that they would remove them from the dex just to make everyone buy a WD to get a unit that for NO LEGITIMATE REASON was removed from the main book.
But honestly this has gone on for too long for a fake rumor. Nothing makes any sense from this "play tester"
MandalorynOranj wrote:I get why people are upset about the WD list rumor because of it being Kroot, but if it were something else, which I have to imagine it will be over time, does it really bother you that much to have to pay for some new rules and units? If they released a small list of Demiurg or Hrud or something that was new, would you still be mad because it's "just a way to sell more things?"
I feel kind of dirty for defending GW, but I feel like they deserve it in this case.
1-yes it does bother me.
2-Its not new units, just new rules that I would have to pay a premium/surcharge in order to use existing models/units
3-Yes, I would be irritated if GW was diliberately shorting me on content(Holding back already completed units) just to force me to buy a magazine later.
Now if GW wants to update our codices periodically and release nice codex supplements like they did with the Chaos deamons, I would not mind so much, but that is not what the rumor is suggesting.
In other words, think of your favorite army, now imagine that it has been neglected to the point of having only 1-2 semi-viable builds.
Then GW releases a new core ruleset that benefits your army but not quite enough to make up for the old points costs.
Finally, GW releases your codex but your army only comes out with 1-2 semi0viable builds and they removed basic units that made the army thematically unique, telling you that you have to pay extra to get what other armies get in their codex.
You should feel dirty for defending your employ-...uh GW in this instance.
1) I don't work for GW. Feel free to assume I do for defending one decision you disagree with, doesn't matter.
2) We have no idea how accurate these rumors are. For all we know, It could be Kroot in the main 'dex alone and Tau as a WD list. So calm down a little.
3) If you want to talk about fluff, then making the Kroot an additional mercenary list makes sense, considering Kroot are widely known as mercenaries. A new Tau codex without Kroot would be losing what, one widely used unit that can still be taken as an ally? You have no idea what you'd be gaining or how this would fit in with the rest of the book. This would give everyone else a chance to "hire" some Kroot mercenaries without having some random Tau guy (HQ) running with them. It's fluffy, and we know this edition is all about "forging the narrative."
4) I really don't know why you're assuming there'd only be 1-2 viable builds from a new codex. It's not like they'll be selling you the current codex with Kroot and Vespid (possibly, we still have no idea if it's true) removed. There'll be all kinds of new things to use, and new unit combos etc. It's not the end of the world.
Zweischneid wrote:There is no antipathy. Just saying that you'll never know if there's not better stuff out there if you never try. I think I explicitly said I like the old fluff too, so your attempt at mirror-logic sorta there.
That is not the point you were making. As stated your words have nothing but antipathy for established back story. Of the Two of us, you are the one trying to limit/remove. You want players to lose well liked units just so that you can have something new to read. Your logic is flawed here in that you assume that GW can't give you new stuff to read by adding to the existing backstory.
IMO, If GW wants to add new material, thats great. Just do so within the previously established backstory. They should put some effort into to developing the established back-stories rather than can ret-conning a previous story just to make room for a short redux that doesn't really add anything new.
The problem is, you don't really get new, you get the same story that never advances and lose existing fluff for some other fluff that usually has no more depth than the existing version(This is just lazy). You do get a book with a lot more pretty pictures in it tho'.
Zweischneid wrote:
Captain Avatar wrote:You see, there is a difference between "new backstory" and "removing critical theme elements" from the established design of an army. These two things are not synonomous.
And, yes they do. GW constantly sells rules that contain no real new creative material/backstory, This is why it is still the 41st millenium.
Well, maybe they should switch it up once in a while and update Codexes with new fluff but unchanged rules. What makes new rules a "legitimate" update but new fluff an "illegitimate" one? Why does enjoying the latter make me a locust of a "disposable" generation while enjoying the former does not?
Again, you are either being disingenuous or have flawed logic. I never said limit it to either the rules or the backstory, this is your stance.
My stance is that they should update both, but should do so while working within the established framework.
Funny how you are trying to lay the ground work of me being a competitve tourney rules are everythin type. I'll give you an atta-boy for the attempt to mischaracterize and demonize me. It is a legitamate debate tactic if you can get away with it.
Thing is that I am not a tourney waac player/person.
I am a man who knows the value of the money he works hard to earn and of frugal scottish descent. I have a sorta 6th sense when someone is trying to put the touch on me or trying to lift my wallet. Right now this rumor has that sense goping of like spidermans danger sense.
You see, I am not all about the rules. I am all about getting my moneys worth out of my precious free time/hobby.
BTW, what makes your attitude locust-like is that you feel that the fluff should be consumed and once done that we all should move on, leaving nothing of value behind.
I have the attitude that we should build upon the previous works rather than just throwing them into the garbage in the name of expedient consumerism.
Captain Avatar wrote:
Ok, the highlighted section. If you really love the old fluff, there would not be a "but".
Having read something doesn't degrade its quality, it just means that it is no longer new to you. You are words here are typical of the "disposable" generation. This, If its not new then it has no value mentality. IMO, This is a frightening attitude, it is the mentality of locusts, not humans.
Your last sentence, the casual dismissal is a bit disingenuous. Yeah, the old fluff is there, but the old units are no longer in your army until yout,the player, pay an extortion fee to get the rest of your rules.
Zweischneid wrote:I still don't get it
This is obvious
Zweischneid wrote:[If change per se is an "inconvencience" to you, why embrace it at all? I want a new Codex so that I can have (i) new rules, (ii) new models and (iii) new fluff. Hell, I could probably do without the new rules.
You keep trying to put this on me by implying that I am demanding an either or approach. Again, you are the only one in this conversation with that stance/attitude.
My stance/attitude is give us both new fluff and new rules but do so by building upon what is established. And do so in a manner that is a good value to "us" the customer. Not "Me" or "You" but "US" as in we the customers have a right to expect a quality product. If we didn't have such rights there would not be the number of consumer protection laws that currently exist.
As to you being able to do without new rule, Good for "You". Thing is that GW is supposed to be trying to meet the wants and needs of "all" of their customers.
Time and time again, you try to make this about you and me when I am looking at it from the perspective of what such will do to the average player/hobbyists wallets and the already shrinking customer base. You may be fine sitting in a little room painting these figures just to sit them on a shelf where only you will see them. Most who buy the model, though, actually play the game and denjoy doing so.
Zweischneid wrote:If I want to play with my old models (e.g. Kroot) using the old fluff, I'd just stick with the old Codex! Updating one out of the above three seems hardly worth the investment of a new book to me. Save yourself the trouble. [b] I have no objection to anyone who doesn't want to move up,[/b]But if you clamor for new rules like it's some sort of guarantieed entitlement that GW owns you, while simultaneously disparaging new models as infernal money-grab and new fluff as personally offensive to your sensibilities, than that does strike me as hypocrisy of the highest order.
So now I am a power gamer with an entitlement mentality? Dude you have a very skewed perspective if you can read that in what I have posted.
Lets break it down:
Being a customer that feels that there money spent "entitles" them to a product of commensurate quality to the monies spent is not the same as "Entitlement Mentality". Matter of a fact, they are almost an antithesis of one another.
And again, It is not new models but existing ones that will be limited by GW pulling units out of the codex just to stuff into a mini-dex to sell later./ Some how you are trying to put me in the position of clamouring for new rules while disparaging new models. Where the hell are you getting this. I have niether clamoured for new rules or disparaged new models in this thread. Your argument is losing all reason.
The parts of your post that I've highlighted gives a clear picture that you are looking at this from only the first person perspective. Try realizing that there are many who like the Tau/kroot backstory and that such a move will negatively affect them.
Zweischneid wrote:Either way, I consider myself a hobbyist above all. I keep with GW for fresh fluff and fresh models that I can purchase. For all I care, the rules are certainly the last thing that matters (seriously, who plays 40K for the rules?). If they'd quit updating rule for those "locus-gamers" who keep shouting for fixes for every little kink they seemingly are incapable of house-ruling, the aspects of the hobby that matter might actually become quite a bit cheaper in the end.
Good for you. Lets say that you get your wish and that GW only made models for you. How much would they cost in order for the company to stay in busuness?
How long would GW be in business.
adamsouza wrote:If WD Mini Codex format means we can get Adeptus Mechanicus and Genestealer cult rules I'm all for it.
Kroot Min Dex means you can play ALL Kroot, or Kroot Allies. I'm not seeing how that's really any different from how it is now, other than you would have the rules in two different books.
1- Its two different books that you have to pay for
2-You have to wait for GW to get around to publishing these mini-dexes.
3-It changes the core theme of the army.
4-Would you be all for the admech if it was released as the rumor posted, unbalanced and very limited? This sounds like you loose core units from the codices to have the reintroduced at a later point, at an extra price and done in a half-a**ed manner that will leave everyone unsatisfied.
The difference is the same as having your mad doc's pulled out of the orks just so they can sell them to you later. You end up paying for an incomplete codex and then again for the rules to use key units.
If you like the sound of this then I got a bridge in brooklyn that I am willing to sell you.
MandalorynOranj wrote:
1) I don't work for GW. Feel free to assume I do for defending one decision you disagree with, doesn't matter.
2) We have no idea how accurate these rumors are. For all we know, It could be Kroot in the main 'dex alone and Tau as a WD list. So calm down a little.
3) If you want to talk about fluff, then making the Kroot an additional mercenary list makes sense, considering Kroot are widely known as mercenaries. A new Tau codex without Kroot would be losing what, one widely used unit that can still be taken as an ally? You have no idea what you'd be gaining or how this would fit in with the rest of the book. This would give everyone else a chance to "hire" some Kroot mercenaries without having some random Tau guy (HQ) running with them. It's fluffy, and we know this edition is all about "forging the narrative."
4) I really don't know why you're assuming there'd only be 1-2 viable builds from a new codex. It's not like they'll be selling you the current codex with Kroot and Vespid (possibly, we still have no idea if it's true) removed. There'll be all kinds of new things to use, and new unit combos etc. It's not the end of the world.
1) Relax, was a joke
2)I know that these are only rumors, Look at my original posts abd you will see plenty of us orkmoticons and sarcasm notifications. Also note that I have not shouted once in my reply to you, so I find the calm down statement as odd.
3)Again, I have no problem with other armies getting Kroot mercenaries, I do have a problem of Tau losing their Unique relationship with the Kroot.
I also have a problem with how the rumor suggest that GW would handle this/money grab.
(Again I know this is only a rumor, but we are discussing the ramifications of if these were true and how GW would implement them as per what is suggested in the rumor.)
4)Remove the alien Auxilla and the Tau only have battlesuits, vehicles and Fire Warriors. Unless GW are going to really ream the backstoryvby making assault/cc specialist suits and drones then the Tau will be very limited thematically as a stand alone army.
I think that this is my biggest problem with the concept. With GW's history, there is a good case to be made that the base army will be diminished/not have much character and will be almost unplayable until the supplemental "Mini-dexes" come out.
warboss wrote: I'm not seeing how you can't see the difference.
I just care that the rules will be in two seperate books. You'd still be able to play Tau with Kroot Mercenaries.
Fluff wise it's the same.
All kroot force, the same.
Tau with a few kroot here and there, pretty much the same.
Tau without Kroot, the way I see them played most often, the same.
They'd also have to add new choices to the Tau to make up for removing choices, so I'd happily trade Kroot for new Tau or Drone types.
I don't think the rumor said all alien auxiliaries were out just Kroot. There is a fluffy reason Kroot function as a separate mini-list... Kroot are mercenaries, meaning their allegiance isn't exclusively with the tau. Next GW originally developed the Kroot as a separate army simply choosing to incorporate them into the Tau instead of dropping the developement work they already started. This gives GW the opportunity to give Kroot a more thorough rule set that represent the concept more fully. That said I thinks it's silly to overreact, without seeing how it will actually work out. This isn't much different from when GW did daemons and yanked them from the CSM codex.
ZebioLizard2 wrote:Oh hey tau are experiencing something Chaos has experienced YEARS AGO.
At least now we have allies to mitigate it.
Of course I preferred the kroot merc dex over their meh incarnation inside of tau
Oh hey, chaos experienced something different years ago. You're able to still use your demons as generic equivalents... they didn't just disappear from your codex like this unlikely rumor says. What happened to demons still sucked but it wasn't the same thing. We'll see if it happens first to them with the upcoming codex seeing as how they're rumored to be next, though.
Even if Kroot and Vespids ended up as separate mini armies they could easily be only battle brothers with Tau and desperate with everyone else, keeping any 'special' arrangement. They could even have an expanded concept where they could be included as a second ally as long as your army includes X, who knows? Those who are already very negative towards this possible new direction are identical to those who were upset over how the Necrons got reworked. In both cases I feel the result will be a much more diverse and interesting army so its for the best to just wait this out and don't seem so negative until they actually do what your fearing.
What I do know is that the few nascent things that have released and have been rumored to be released with 6ed so far is exciting. I for one rarely run Kroot in my Tau force so the change is a big 'meh' for me regardless of what happens however anything could be on the table.
Just remembered these amusing exchanges in the Tau 6th Ed. Tactics thread
Spoiler:
focusedfire wrote:
Tun_Tau wrote:
Avro wrote:Game update:
Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(
Fair exchange But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)
Yeah, I used to take out Monoliths with EMP's back in 4th ed.
It does suck that when a unit of Fire Warriors takes out a LR, that unit is most certainly making a sacrifice for "the greater good".
I console myself with the thought, that my 100 point unit just took out a 240-250 point vehicle.
Ovion wrote:Now I want to make a Shield Drone with twin-Lightning Claws...
You!! Don't make me turn this thread around. If you keep posting such horrible atrocities, we will not allow you to join in the after thread party that has punch and pie.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Tun_Tau wrote:
But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)
Don't even joke about that. Ward might see it and actually think we want these things.
@Tun_Tau- See What you've done! You've startled them, and they have evoked the name of he who destroys fluff. We will now be cursed to have a dex of cc specialists and Railgins that shoot wolf priefs using Jotww.
@A Town Called Malus-Nah, Rail guns will shoot tesseract labriynths riding tachyon arrows and we will get mindshackle drones.
Seriously, This has been fun, but I'd like to get back on topic and ask for battle reports/ whats working for other people.
Gatekeeper wrote:We don't want those things?
SO: i was reading Forgeworld stuffs and I noticed that one of the lower cost fliers is a heavy support choice for Tau (the barracuda). I'm not sure we would enjoy having to decide between fliers and broadsides and hammerheads.
First- Don't even start. No more evoking the name of the fluff killer nor asking for SM toy/goodies........While were are at it....You want MOOAARRR!!??... (Dickens reference)
Second- IMO,Most likely the Barracuda (or whatever Flyer we get) will be written as a FA choice. I could be wrong though. Just seems like it would hurt their HH /Sky Ray sales.
And then this which might actually become a real thing if Logan's rumours are real
Spoiler:
Ovion wrote:
focusedfire wrote:
Ovion wrote:Now I want to make a Shield Drone with twin-Lightning Claws...
You!! Don't make me turn this thread around. If you keep posting such horrible atrocities, we will not allow you to join in the after thread party that has punch and pie.
You know, specifically saying not to, just meant I had to.
So I present - Guardian Drones:
Unit: Guardian Drone, Points Per: 25, Unit Type: Infantry (Jet Pack), WS-2, BS-2, S-3, T-3, W-1, I-4, A-2(3), Ld-7, Sv-4+/6+*.
Wargear:
Light Shield Generator
Pulse Carbine
Two Lightning Claws
Zweischneid wrote:I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
The cheap, jaded money-grab, if anything, would be if they didn't change things and just sold you some updated rules without putting any new creative effort into it.
They don't. Big thumbs up for GW from me.
I love the old fluff as much as anyone. But... I've already read the old fluff. If I'll pay for a new book, getting a new take on the Tau (or any other faction) gives me greater value for my money. And the greater the changes in the background that they demonstrate, the greater will be the scope (and the example) for hobbyists to tinker with the background themselves, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse hobby for everyone.
Besides, the old fluff will still be there whatever happens. Noone's gonna steal your old books.
Good writers could easily add lots of new stories without damaging any existing plotlines. Its called "agreement" and professional writers/improvisers have been doing it for years.....now, I have no clue if GW can do it, based upon the necron codex, they can't.
(I am not being a hater here, but as a guy who does this sort of thing, they do a bad job at it. but that is another topic....).
I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
The cheap, jaded money-grab, if anything, would be if they didn't change things and just sold you some updated rules without putting any new creative effort into it.
They don't. Big thumbs up for GW from me.
I love the old fluff as much as anyone. But... I've already read the old fluff. If I'll pay for a new book, getting a new take on the Tau (or any other faction) gives me greater value for my money. And the greater the changes in the background that they demonstrate, the greater will be the scope (and the example) for hobbyists to tinker with the background themselves, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse hobby for everyone.
Besides, the old fluff will still be there whatever happens. Noone's gonna steal your old books.
Good writers could easily add lots of new stories without damaging any existing plotlines. Its called "agreement" and professional writers/improvisers have been doing it for years.....now, I have no clue if GW can do it, based upon the necron codex, they can't. (I am not being a hater here, but as a guy who does this sort of thing, they do a bad job at it. but that is another topic....).
What Dave said.
When it comes to adding new stuff without changing the established canon the Tau are one of the easiest armies to write for, due to the fact that they are a dynamic and growing race. With each new codex there have been new expansions of their Empire. The first one focussed heavily on the coming of the Ethereals and First Contact with the Imperium leading into the beginning of the Second Sphere Expansion. The second went into more detail on Farsight's campaigns against the Orks and his split from the Empire and introduced Commanders Brightsword and Shadowsun and the Third Sphere Expansion along with a new alien race to the Empire, the Vespid.
The next book can add more diversity to the Tau without having to completely change their history, either through a new technological advancement or a new race being absorbed into the Empire, something which is harder to do for the more established armies such as Space Marines or Eldar. A complete U-turn on the Tau's approach to war (which is what a Tau piloted Assault suit would be) is not necessary and is just bad design. Instead of making the army better at shooting than other armies to compensate for their weaker close combat they'll just make our close combat better, which isn't something which most Tau players actually want.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
The next book can add more diversity to the Tau without having to completely change their history, either through a new technological advancement or a new race being absorbed into the Empire, something which is harder to do for the more established armies such as Space Marines or Eldar. A complete U-turn on the Tau's approach to war (which is what a Tau piloted Assault suit would be) is not necessary and is just bad design. Instead of making the army better at shooting than other armies to compensate for their weaker close combat they'll just make our close combat better, which isn't something which most Tau players actually want.
Here's a thought -
Assault-style battlesuits would only be available if you're playing a Farsight Enclave force. Looking back at 3rd and 4th edition Farsight, he's all about assault, and the Enclave follows his doctrines quite closely.
Come on tau fans... assault suits... everyone is too hopeful. they will only make any codex worse. but really tau and assault just wont be good even if it does happen. just wait till April. these "rumors" are probably just some kid making some "wish my army could do this" shenanigans. im hopeful too but lets face it... gw making our codex awesome.... nope.
Zweischneid wrote:I don't get this antipathy to changes in the background.
The cheap, jaded money-grab, if anything, would be if they didn't change things and just sold you some updated rules without putting any new creative effort into it.
They don't. Big thumbs up for GW from me.
I love the old fluff as much as anyone. But... I've already read the old fluff. If I'll pay for a new book, getting a new take on the Tau (or any other faction) gives me greater value for my money. And the greater the changes in the background that they demonstrate, the greater will be the scope (and the example) for hobbyists to tinker with the background themselves, ultimately creating a richer and more diverse hobby for everyone.
Besides, the old fluff will still be there whatever happens. Noone's gonna steal your old books.
Good writers could easily add lots of new stories without damaging any existing plotlines. Its called "agreement" and professional writers/improvisers have been doing it for years.....now, I have no clue if GW can do it, based upon the necron codex, they can't.
(I am not being a hater here, but as a guy who does this sort of thing, they do a bad job at it. but that is another topic....).
But they are not writing novels or stories.
They are writing "example" background for a miniature-collection hobby. The fluff they provide serves the same purpose as the paint schemes they provide. They demonstrate what can be done. They don't force you to a particular scheme/story that has to be done. GW put a lot of effort in keeping things ambiguous for precisely that purpose: So that each player can fill in the blanks and pick the "interpretation" that suits them best. You can play Necrons as mindless Robo-Nids or as decadent feudal court. You can play Space Marines as psychopath serial-killers without a shred of humanity or as space-knights in shining armour, etc.. . Just as the recent Necron Dex vastly expanded the scope of Necrons by providing an entirely new vision, so should the Tau get a as-different-as-possible take over their last incarnation to provide the maximum amount of creative space for hobbyists to pick and define "their" particular Tau in the continuum of possible interpretations.
They are writing "example" background for a miniature-collection hobby. The fluff they provide serves the same purpose as the paint schemes they provide. They demonstrate what can be done. They don't force you to a particular scheme/story that has to be done.
*snip*
so should the Tau get a as-different-as-possible take over their last incarnation to provide the maximum amount of creative space for hobbyists to pick and define "their" particular Tau in the continuum of possible interpretations.
Actually, they are writing novels. They belong to a collection called the "Black Library". The codices are supposed to give a somewhat accurate in game representation based off of the factions background. This background also serves as inspiration for the Black Library novels.
The codices are there for those that want to make a playable army out of the models and these codices are supposed to reflect the backstory and setting. The fact that you are being so stubbornly abrasive on this matter is very curious when you claim to be a model collector/painter with no interest in the rules.
Remind us again why you are even arguing about this if you don't care about the rules.
BTW, if the fluff and rule changes remove playable units, then they are "forcing" us to play a particular scheme/story. This is due to the fact that if you want to play a game outside of your normal circle of friends then most players are going to want you to play the edition legal codex. Edition legal has been defined by GW as to being the most recent codex released for sale for each playable faction.
So you see, for those of us that actually play the game, these changes can be a very bad thing, and to paraphrase/turn a mirror on one of your earlier statements,"Seeing as the rules don't matter to you, If they don't change the background, you can always sit in your basement and admire the figures you have collected."
So, Is the real reason that you are here is that you hate the Tau backstory?
Is it that you hate the Tau models?
Or is it that you just hate the Tau (Hate the entirety of their backstory, models and concept)?
By the way that you are pushing for "a as-different-as-possible take over their last incarnation"(Your words) It seems that you just hate the Tau.
If you hate the Tau then why does it matter to you what backstory they have?
It shouldn't matter a bit. The only way I can see why you would be involved in the discussion is if your hatred of the Tau has reached a point of making you irrational on the very subject of the Tau.
Did a Tau kill your puppy, date your sister or are you just being a Hater? Seriously, you are coming across as someone that just wants to ruin something that others like just because you don't.
Personally, I can't see any real problems with adding cc into the tau codex, and by cc, I mean better than kroot atm, because they aren't good. The problem I have is putting it on Tau suits. The tau abhor close combat; they find it barbaric. They only justification I can see is more friends for the tau, but it looks like thats going to be a no go from the current mini dex rubbish. I can't see why they just can't keep kroot in the book and make a minidex for them.
If this were to come to pass, the thing that would irritate me the most is that they would be doing it for the very reason I got into the Tau. I was looking for the closest thing to a mercenary "rag-tag" band of fighters and the Tau were the closest. I also really liked the counter point of the look of the hi-tech tau next to the primitive mad-max apocolyptic look of the kroot.
I've been waiting since the first rulebook for there to be more alien auxilla. Vespids were ok for about a year until 5th ed hit but if they and the kroot were tweaked and you added another race I would be happy. I would then buy my first Imperial models(Guard) to ally in as Gue'vesa. Probably wouldn't be very competitive but, to me, it would look amazing and I think that it would be fun to play.
It would have a commander, 2 crisis units, 1 fire warrior team, 1-2 kroot kindreds, 1-2 Vespids, 1 of whatever was added, 1 markerlight unit, 2 Tau Heavies and use the rest of the points on IG.
Would play around with the composition for light scouting forces, rugged strike force and whatever else looked fun.
(Sigh)Will have to wait until next year and see what they do with my army. If it turns out bad and Narrativehammer turns into what I fear that it will be(2 hour Beer and pretzel arguments because no one can aggree on who is narrating), then our game store does have a massive FoW player base.
For what it's worth a guy at my local GW who's been playing for god knows how long, is pally with some of the GW higher ups (and happens to be a big tau player) told me that the design team wanted to make seperate Tau and Kroot codexes.
Now bear in mind, this is simply idle chatter about what they wanted to do I was told a few months ago.
Ovion wrote:For what it's worth a guy at my local GW who's been playing for god knows how long, is pally with some of the GW higher ups (and happens to be a big tau player) told me that the design team wanted to make seperate Tau and Kroot codexes.
Now bear in mind, this is simply idle chatter about what they wanted to do I was told a few months ago.
Actually this wouldn't be to far from the mark, there was originally a kroot mini-dex in..Chapter Approved I think? Maybe White Dwarf.
Actually, they are writing novels. They belong to a collection called the "Black Library". The codices are supposed to give a somewhat accurate in game representation based off of the factions background. This background also serves as inspiration for the Black Library novels.
Sorry to tell you, but 'Black Library' has been incorporated as an entirely different company from the Game Studio (even though they still belong to the same holding).
The very reason they did so was - explicitly - so that they would not be creatively bound by the Game Studio. BL has always - knowingly and with full purpose - created different "version", "variations", "interpretations" of the material. It is pretty much their raison d'etre and why they are "Black Library" and not just "Games Workshop" Novels.
They don't try to be congruent with the Game Studio (which again has a different take than Forgeworld, which have yet another take on it than FFG, which is again different to DoW, etc.., etc.. etc..).
You can find an example of this below at about 17:40 to about 18:50 (or possibly to the very end).
focusedfire wrote:
So, Is the real reason that you are here is that you hate the Tau backstory?
Is it that you hate the Tau models?
Or is it that you just hate the Tau (Hate the entirety of their backstory, models and concept)?
By the way that you are pushing for "a as-different-as-possible take over their last incarnation"(Your words) It seems that you just hate the Tau.
If you hate the Tau then why does it matter to you what backstory they have?
It shouldn't matter a bit. The only way I can see why you would be involved in the discussion is if your hatred of the Tau has reached a point of making you irrational on the very subject of the Tau.
Did a Tau kill your puppy, date your sister or are you just being a Hater? Seriously, you are coming across as someone that just wants to ruin something that others like just because you don't.
I like the Tau. I even have a sizable Tau army.
The debate doesn't even specifically address the Tau. It applies equally to Necrons or Space Marines or Eldar etc..
What I was pointing out was that several people here have called GW's approach to fluff "lazy" or "sloppy" or "a jaded money-grab" because they don't produce internally coherent narratives across all incarnations of their IP. To which I responded, that this is neither "lazy" or "sloppy" or "purely-profit-driven", but an intrinsic core value of their IP-development. They knowingly, purposefully and explicitly put variations, ambiguities and different angles on the same source material, invest a lot of effort to do so, and do so with the specific idea that hobbyists will take it as an inspiration to do so themselves.
Dan Abnett's BL40K ≠ Graham McNeill's BL40K ≠ Forgeworld ≠ FFG40K ≠ Game Studio 40K ≠ Game Studio 40K from a different Edition ≠ Another Hobbyist's 40K ≠ Your 40K.
They put a lot of work into making this happen. You can disagree with this policy (while I don't think it is a bad idea at all) and we can discuss it. Yet, either way, you should realize that it is a fully purposeful and intended policy, not a lazy oversight on their behalf. So expect to see it applied to future Tau releases as well.
I think that some people are getting a bit worked up for the wrong reasons. We should be focusing our hate like a laser, and together, we can fire it threw the warp and possibly do some kind of brain surgery on the tard that had the 2 different codex idea in the first place. If we blow there minds enough, then they might possibly be almost normal enough to write a single book containing kroot that tau fans will enjoy, and randoms wont hate on as much.
Ovion wrote:For what it's worth a guy at my local GW who's been playing for god knows how long, is pally with some of the GW higher ups (and happens to be a big tau player) told me that the design team wanted to make seperate Tau and Kroot codexes.
Now bear in mind, this is simply idle chatter about what they wanted to do I was told a few months ago.
Actually this wouldn't be to far from the mark, there was originally a kroot mini-dex in..Chapter Approved I think? Maybe White Dwarf.
Way back even before the WD article... when GW first decided to add a new race they designed 3 separate races... Tau, Kroot, and Demiurge... and were going to pick the best. In the end they mixed the concepts of the three together. The kroot mercenary list that was released in WD was a purer form of the Kroot rules GW had put together prior to mixing the concepts of the three together. I'm skeptacle of GW spinning off the Kroot but more than any other part of any other army they make the most sense, since they have the most prior work that could justify that treatment as well as the fluff as mercenaries.
In WHFB, one of the standing rumors is that GW is planning an Allies style book with 4 different mini-lists... if that were true, I could see GW deciding to do the same with 40k. It might be neat to see Blood Axe mercenaries or Rogue Traders treated in a book of that sort.
Something no one on here has really thought about is that its possible that GW would consider yanking the Kroot because they feel the updated Tau codex is too full of new ideas, and with the easy out of separating Kroot it gives them a way to give you guys more. For all the shortcomings of Daemons being pulled from the Chaos SM codex, Codex: Chaos Daemons certainly provides more options to Daemons than CSM ever did but also gave the CSM's codex the room to grow.
Considering the heavy anime influence on the Tau, I was always amazed they didn't have Laser swords or forearm blades to begin with.
Also please consider that since the Tau are crap at hand to hand they would eventually develop new ways of not being crap at hand to hand. From a logical point of view, the crisis suits are the obvious starting point for a assault oriented troop.
adamsouza wrote:Considering the heavy anime influence on the Tau, I was always amazed they didn't have Laser swords or forearm blades to begin with.
Also please consider that since the Tau are crap at hand to hand they would eventually develop new ways of not being crap at hand to hand. From a logical point of view, the crisis suits are the obvious starting point for a assault oriented troop.
But the Tau aren't crap at hand to hand purely from a physical point. Physically they are pretty much the same as a normal human. The real difference is their attitude to war, regarding application of overwhelming firepower as the key to victory and close combat as barbaric.
Also consider that they do not have limitless resources to pour into replacing soldiers and equipment lost in battle. It is a lot easier to keep your soldiers alive and equipment intact if you keep the enemy at range and fighting on your terms through tactical retreats luring them into prepared kill zones. The Imperium can send a whole regiment of Imperial Guard on a suicidal bayonet charge because they have plenty more where they came from, the Tau don't.
I think the picture of the conversion someone posted on the first page also points something out... who say's its a Tau crisis suit?-Demiurge/space dwarf were rumored as a new auxiliary race and they supposedly supplied bits of tech to the Tau... and tougher close combat suits could just as easily be something of their devising.
The real difference is their attitude to war, regarding application of overwhelming firepower as the key to victory and close combat as barbaric.
I respect that argument, but the history of warfare shows that tactics change over time to meet the needs on the battlefield.
Quite literally, every other race in the galaxy overwhelms Tau in assaults, and their current strategy of "shoot'em before they get close" isn't as dependable as the need it to be.
HoverBoy wrote:You mean drones right.
Not in their current flying incarnation. Maybe something along the lines of an unmanned crisis suit.
In any case, their tactics would evolve in a galaxy where assault is an unavoidable reality.
Secondly, as others have suggested, it is doubtful that GW would remove Kroot and vespid from the Tau Codex without cooking up something new to take their place. Since they would be removing the assault oriented portion og he army list, it only makes sense that they would devise new assault oriented replacements with a more distinctly Tau flavor.
The real difference is their attitude to war, regarding application of overwhelming firepower as the key to victory and close combat as barbaric.
I respect that argument, but the history of warfare shows that tactics change over time to meet the needs on the battlefield.
Quite literally, every other race in the galaxy overwhelms Tau in assaults, and their current strategy of "shoot'em before they get close" isn't as dependable as the need it to be.
I agree with this. Rather than add CC to counter this I would prefer to see an attempt to maybe improve them through special rules, similar to IG orders.
Off the top of my head I think a rule called "Step Back" or something might work. In the assault phase after shooting the Fire Warrior team takes a leadership test. If it passes then the unit may immediately move D6" provided that their movement takes them away from the enemy they shot at.
This would allow us to maximise our Guns range as it could give us some rounds of shooting where we stay out of the enemies shooting range. As it is now our Fire Warriors shoot at max range (30") at a Space Marine squad and kill maybe a couple. In their turn the Space Marines move forwards 6" and can shoot us, so our extra 6" range doesn't really mean much.
Here's an idea. Instead of removing Kroot from the Tau book maybe include a full Kroot FOC (for Kroot only armies) and an allied Kroot FOC in the Tau book... IMO pulling the Kroot out of the Tau book is dumb because they are part of the Tau Empire. The mentality of "well just cut it out of here and paste it somewhere else" is just bad.....seriously bad.
The only way I'd get behind it is if the Kroot mercenary list were released like next month with a list of their battle brothers (along with any uber special rules for allying with Tau), AoCs, Desperate Allies, & Come the Apocolypse......and then ratified by the new Tau Codex coming out next year. Ratification complete with any rules updates proven necessary by the year or so of player based playtesting and input between the WD article and the final edit of the Tau Codex.
I like to see my codices well edited and well thought out. It infuriates me to get a new codex and see a rules change faq'd like six weeks later. Mercenaries in WD I'm not necessarily against, but in the format I notated above I thought would be cool. Playtest your shortsited designs in WD, solidify them by the time the actual codex produces. Not rip them out of their homes and make players photocopy pages 46-51 in WD 444....
I could see other mercenaries getting done this way
Harlequins for Eldar or Dark Eldar
Exodites for Eldar or Dark Eldar
Grot / Snotling hoarde for Orks
Hobit Sniper allies for Imperial Guard
etc, etc, etc
MightyGodzilla wrote:Here's an idea. Instead of removing Kroot from the Tau book maybe include a full Kroot FOC (for Kroot only armies) and an allied Kroot FOC in the Tau book... IMO pulling the Kroot out of the Tau book is dumb because they are part of the Tau Empire. The mentality of "well just cut it out of here and paste it somewhere else" is just bad.....seriously bad.
Interesting proposal. We already have armies with odd FoC alterations: 4HQ Space Wolves and 3 Haemonculus per HQ slot DE as well as the IA11 Farseer that gave up 2 troops and an elite for an extra heavy support choice.
If the Tau had an altered FoC like the one below, it would help make the Tau a unique army.
Can't say I care for that mock force-org. I don't want to have to choose between taking auxiliaries or being handicapped by having less choices. I like Kroot, I own more Vultures than most Tau players I know own Carnivores. I just don't want them forced into my list.
Now, on the other hand, if viable Tau replacements were found for them (so that FW weren't the only troop choice left), and if that were an OPTIONAL chart in the same sense as a Farsight list, that could be cool.
cc demiurg suits! I remember reading somewhere about an extremely psychic race the tau were hiding from the iom, so maybe some psychers? If we get psychers, I wont use them, my tau army is based on shooting the crap out of things with marine allies for cc, I dont need a bunch of wizards who somehow are more powerful than a 7 foot tall giant in power armor with a gun that shoots mini rpgs!
Ugh, please stop with the WD codecies. If you don't get it on the release date, you're completely SOL. Where do I get the DakkaJet rules, or the Sisters of Battle Rules? Where will I be able to get these F'ing Kroot Rules 2 weeks after the WD drops?
kronk wrote:Ugh, please stop with the WD codecies. If you don't get it on the release date, you're completely SOL. Where do I get the DakkaJet rules, or the Sisters of Battle Rules? Where will I be able to get these F'ing Kroot Rules 2 weeks after the WD drops?
Unless, of course, you own a $500 ipad.
/grinding that fething axe...
Last I checked, they still have the relevent WD available on the website.
Also, as much as I don't like apple, etc; you can access the apple bookstore on pc and android.
Please, let's not get into the argument about GW only supporting Apple at the moment. There are at least 2 threads that have devolved into name calling contests over it.
White Dwarf 390 sold out almost immediately in the U.S.A. Unless you have an Ipad you were pretty much forced to, find it on internet, photocopy the rules from a friend, or go without.
Honestly, I'm betting the Flyer Rules, and future mini dex, will turn up on the GW website, but only after they have sold out the White Dwarfs and sold a bunch of Ibook copies as well.
There is always a frenzy for new stuff/rules, and after they've made their money from that frenzy it makes sense they'll toss the rules on the site so they can sell more models.
I don’t have a problem with little mini-armies as add-ons. I think it could expand the game in a positive way. In a strange way it sort of reminds me of the mercenaries you could hire in War Craft III. They were different to anything you had in your own army, but gave you an edge in some situations. If this could be used to introduce smaller Demiurge or Harlequin forces, and similar such items, then that would be fantastic.
Of course, the real problem with this idea is the whole White Dwarf angle. As the past couple of WD rules releases (SoB, Space Guppy) have shown, these issues tend to run out really quickly and then... they’re gone. That’s it. That means we’d have to rely on pirate scans of WD issues to get the rules for these units. GW needs to release these things as PDFs on their website if not the month of WD’s release, but at least a month or two after. And no, releasing it through their iOS-only platform would not be a solution.
As an aside, I think removing other races from the Tau would be an extremely dumb idea. One of the major central conceits of the Tau Empire is that they include a bunch of races. I’d want that aspect to be expanded, not curtailed. It only gets worse if people have to buy WD to get the rules for models they already owned (and used in the previous version). And if this involves a change of fluff, then it is just a cash-grab, with money serving as the driving force behind the fluff. And that’s awful.
In the end I expect that this will be like many things GW has done over the years – fantastic concept, terrible execution.
From Warseer, a first and last post (I added paragraphs):
Ornithopter wrote:I was told, that GW is trying to invert their release order. Instead of two follow up waves after a Codex release they will release one or two smaller waves of models before every codex, one big release with the codex and some stragglers thereafter (mainly re-releases and model updates). This is widely known and not hard to deduce. But I was also told that this is only a test run for two upcoming releases and GW is fully prepared to switch back to the old modus operandi or a completely different release schedule.
GW has used the period of reduced LotR activity to produce new ranges far in advance. GW sits on a whole pile of army books/codexes and finished masters and has the flexibility to alter their release schedule seamlessly. The next two releases (Warriors of Chaos and Dark Angels) follow the old pattern, but the next two releases (Tau and Eldar) after these are deployed in the new fashion.
The Tau Codex was pushed back because of this, but only the book. The first batch of models will be released even earlier than planned (maybe even this year) – and yes, there are Kroots and no, there is no Lamprey – this whole set of rumours is 105% fake.
GW has tighten their information policy for all releases around the end of the year. This includes everything not just the Hobbit stuff because one major source of info are business plans and logistics tables that are shared with subsidiaries and external companies. Most unregulated sources sit at one of those joints. The blackout period lasts from October to February and ends there because it is not sustainable for a long time. There will be no wave of fliers this year outside of the blackout period (my source does not know if one is planned for this period or not, but if it is the info is definitely not avaible for regional distributors - whatever that is).
One last bit: GW has buried the plastic character stop gap and switched to multi-part finecast kits, with emphasis on “multi-part”. The sheer number of bit of these kits is on par with plastic releases. The first kit will be the re-modeled Avatar. The four Greater Demons are worked on. All of them will be larger than their predecessors and come with a lot of variety.
One last bit: GW has buried the plastic character stop gap and switched to multi-part finecast kits, with emphasis on “multi-part”.
*sorrowful sigh*
The single-frame plastic miniatures were one of GW's greatest advances in years. Readily available high-detailed plastic character models. This was the future for character releases, and yet they've decided to not just take a step back, but turn around and sprint from that future in favour of more gakky Finecost releases with more gakky defects and a higher fething price point.
One last bit: GW has buried the plastic character stop gap and switched to multi-part finecast kits, with emphasis on “multi-part”.
*sorrowful sigh*
The single-frame plastic miniatures were one of GW's greatest advances in years. Readily available high-detailed plastic character models. This was the future for character releases, and yet they've decided to not just take a step back, but turn around and sprint from that future in favour of more gakky Finecost releases with more gakky defects and a higher fething price point.
This. I love my plastic Dark Elf Sorceress. She goes together nicely, has a detailed base which doesn't need sand or texture paint and is a great sculpt.
I literally said "Ew!" as soon as I read that. Why Lord? Why would you allow such awful things?
Because it - quite literally - cannot offend or hurt anybody
Have you ever seen any thread in News and Rumors? Also, I personally wouldn't like to see it simply because it removes the one specialty of the Tau, the fact that they have no connection with the warp, and no real heavy hitters in close combat. It is a complete fluff reversal to have them running into close combat with battlesuits and hacking apart terminators. Frankly I wouldn't like the idea of playing against them. I am sure that people would accept it in time, like with the newcrons, but I can't say that it is a change I would like to see. I like the idea of the Tau being a mobile shooting army supported by specialist auxiliaries, and assault suits simply goes directly against that.
Personally, as a person who continues to play tau (I played them all through 5th) I hope to see:
* a flyer, hopefully the barracuda and remora
* fw suits (i spent money on them...)
* tau specific emplacements (nice to have).
* more kroot options
* some sort of resilient troop options (the relic mission really highlights this gap).
* some AA love
* more options for fw squads (can I get a drone with a flamer?)
* all the other tau wish list stuff too numerous to list here. * cool artwork and some neat fluff...
Also as a note, PLEASE those who don't like fine cast (I don't, btw) do not spam the rest of this thread with fine cast complaints...there are already hundreds of other threads about that. Thank you for your consideration.
H.B.M.C. wrote:As an aside, I think removing other races from the Tau would be an extremely dumb idea. One of the major central conceits of the Tau Empire is that they include a bunch of races. I’d want that aspect to be expanded, not curtailed. It only gets worse if people have to buy WD to get the rules for models they already owned (and used in the previous version). And if this involves a change of fluff, then it is just a cash-grab, with money serving as the driving force behind the fluff. And that’s awful.
It's nice to know I'm not the only person that thinks that butchering the faction that thematically uses other xenos as auxiliary units for the sole purpose of opening the option up to other armies is a bad idea.
I would be incredibly enthusiastic about some new mini-merc Codexes that are available to descent selection of existing armies as an allied detachment provided they A) Aren't poached from the Tau. B) They don't reduce the possibility of Tau xenos races being expanded and C) Tau don't get shafted in the same manner they were IIRC with the WD Kroot dex. Because I may be wrong but IIRC the WD Kroot Army could be taken as allies by other armies but not by Tau which was extremely lame since the Kroot Merc list had units not in the Tau Codex.
Updating OP with that tidbit from Ornithopter. Did he say the first and last thing? Not much point in adding him to the Rumor tracker if he'll never show his face again.
I guess we'll see if he was right when Tau comes out and we all have a good laugh at Logan. Faeit probably won't be amused if he does turn out to be a fake, since he just went full bore behind him because of me. But he would have been tricked just as much as the rest of us. Only time will tell.
I can get on board with this. A harlequin mini dex would be awesome. Maybe GW would finally make a solitaire model...and harlequin jetbikes. This mini dex for Kroot would be essentially no different than the Merc list from chapter approved from years ago. By moving Kroot to that role, you can now fill the Tau codex with a bunch of new units like flyers, hazard suits, tetras, and maybe some killer new variants on Crisis Suits. Who knows.
pretre wrote:I guess we'll see if he was right when Tau comes out and we all have a good laugh at Logan. Faeit probably won't be amused if he does turn out to be a fake, since he just went full bore behind him because of me. But he would have been tricked just as much as the rest of us. Only time will tell.
Don't feel bad..a lot of folks jumped behind ghost21 when he spread all of those false Tau rumors. After that debacle, I've found it difficult to get behind any sort of rumor mongers.
Faeit has pointed out that he isn't really trying to verify accuracy of rumors and doesn't really state that they are anything more than just a rumor.
It's an odd stance, since you think that you'd prefer to be known for truths more than guesses and speculation. Though he seems to be more for getting the rumors and musings out to those who want to hear it. In every thread that mentioned the Logan rumor there were plenty of people who just didn't want to think about the validity because they just wanted to hear something.
Savageconvoy wrote:Faeit has pointed out that he isn't really trying to verify accuracy of rumors and doesn't really state that they are anything more than just a rumor.
Obviously, I disagree with this approach since it is how we get some of the garbage rumors that we get. Oh well, it is his stance and he is consistent. Just means that we'll get plenty of chaff with our wheat from him.
My only problem is that he enforces a policy against nay saying.
With this rumor, it was painfully obvious the person was pulling his rumors out of his arse. Of course people called him out on it, and the posts were removed because they called him out on it.
Of course, the real problem with this idea is the whole White Dwarf angle. As the past couple of WD rules releases (SoB, Space Guppy) have shown, these issues tend to run out really quickly and then... they’re gone. That’s it. That means we’d have to rely on pirate scans of WD issues to get the rules for these units. GW needs to release these things as PDFs on their website if not the month of WD’s release, but at least a month or two after. And no, releasing it through their iOS-only platform would not be a solution.
You know what's sad? I have a subscription (as a present of course) and even I didn't get the SoBWD. I called customer services and was told...oops, we'll add two months to your subscription. Translation: We shipped too many to the stores, sorry for having a subscription <sucker>.
H.B.M.C. wrote:As an aside, I think removing other races from the Tau would be an extremely dumb idea. One of the major central conceits of the Tau Empire is that they include a bunch of races. I’d want that aspect to be expanded, not curtailed. It only gets worse if people have to buy WD to get the rules for models they already owned (and used in the previous version). And if this involves a change of fluff, then it is just a cash-grab, with money serving as the driving force behind the fluff. And that’s awful.
It's nice to know I'm not the only person that thinks that butchering the faction that thematically uses other xenos as auxiliary units for the sole purpose of opening the option up to other armies is a bad idea.
I don't think only losing Kroot is necessarily "butchering" especially when you consider the standing rumor is the addition of 3 new auxiliaries. Lose 1, gain 3, net 2 gain. That would be a non-butchering scenario within the realm of possibility. Even within the Tau they're regarded as mercenaries implying exactly what the rumor says is GWs rationale, that they are an independent hierarchy and not with in the formal military chain of command. That to me justifies the allies FOC.
One last bit: GW has buried the plastic character stop gap and switched to multi-part finecast kits, with emphasis on “multi-part”.
*sorrowful sigh*
The single-frame plastic miniatures were one of GW's greatest advances in years. Readily available high-detailed plastic character models. This was the future for character releases, and yet they've decided to not just take a step back, but turn around and sprint from that future in favour of more gakky Finecost releases with more gakky defects and a higher fething price point.
Maybe those plastic characters just aren't cost-effective for GW except for few special cases which are already covered. I mean, they must be very expensive to produce and most characters probably don't sell that well. Things like Daemon Princes, yes, but probably not many others. For example, SM Commander is a great kit and all, but I don't know anyone who has one, because everyone uses Special Characters and if someone for some reason wants a regular Captain, world is awash with AOBR captains.
Of course, this is part GW's own fault, for making Special characters so awesome. I'm sure Mephiston would sell enough to warrant a plastic kit
Backfire wrote:For example, SM Commander is a great kit and all, but I don't know anyone who has one, because everyone uses Special Characters and if someone for some reason wants a regular Captain, world is awash with AOBR captains.
Yeah I think this is more about the single clamshell plastic characters, not the multi-piece plastic kit characters.
And everyone uses the SM Commander kits because they are great sources for bits, especially combi-weapons.
Even as someone who hasn't had any Finecast problems, this makes me sad too. I loved those plastic Fantasy characters, and was really hoping we'd get some for 40k. I found it strange none had come out yet either, but still held out hope for it. Shame if that's true.
A Town Called Malus wrote:
I agree with this. Rather than add CC to counter this I would prefer to see an attempt to maybe improve them through special rules, similar to IG orders.
Off the top of my head I think a rule called "Step Back" or something might work. In the assault phase after shooting the Fire Warrior team takes a leadership test. If it passes then the unit may immediately move D6" provided that their movement takes them away from the enemy they shot at.
This would allow us to maximise our Guns range as it could give us some rounds of shooting where we stay out of the enemies shooting range. As it is now our Fire Warriors shoot at max range (30") at a Space Marine squad and kill maybe a couple. In their turn the Space Marines move forwards 6" and can shoot us, so our extra 6" range doesn't really mean much.
I've rather felt that Fire Warriors would be better as skirmish infantry than line infantry. Engaging only at extreme range and withdrawing when the enemy comes closer. It makes a lot more sense for them to act that way then to be like a rank of IG grunts.
Even as someone who hasn't had any Finecast problems, this makes me sad too. I loved those plastic Fantasy characters, and was really hoping we'd get some for 40k. I found it strange none had come out yet either, but still held out hope for it. Shame if that's true.
Yeah, I have to agree as well. I haven't had any major Finecast products, and so far, it has made possible conversions that otherwise would have been near impossible with metal. I've been a frequent FW customer for many years, so I really don't view it as much a different product, as the flaws I feel are just flaws inherent with resin. That said, I think this would be possibly the worst move GW has made in years, as it reverse one of the best moves they've made in years by releasing many single frame characters in plastic. I don't even play WFB and I've bought a near half dozen of the characters for 40k conversions. I love them, and will continue buying them as long as they are released, even if just for Fantasy. It would be a damn shame to lose these kits in the future. Perhaps 40k will get these finecast character kits and fantasy will keep getting the plastic ones? That would at least make some sense as 40k models need more weapon options that aren't practical for a single sprue plastic.
There has been some speculation on this, and I'm getting chatter now that seems to reinforce a few things, so I thought I'd post what is floating my way.
Tau Codex early next year.
Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. (aside: Dare I start a Spring of Allies moniker...ah well then it will end up being 2 years from now... )
Crisis suits completely redone.
Stealth suits completely redone.
Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit.
New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back.
Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them.
There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. (My take is this might actually be a new plastic kit taking over a FW model, and before anyone yells GW doesnt cannibalize FW...yes, they do, they have, and they will.)
The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model.
New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna.
Flyer has dual gattling cannons
Flyer has option for rail guns
Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?)
Rule rumors (these are rumors people! I hate posting rule rumors cause I am not involved in that. Please take fwiw)
Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out!
There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn.
There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options
The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover.
Kroothawk wrote:Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit.
There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. (My take is this might actually be a new plastic kit taking over a FW model, and before anyone yells GW doesnt cannibalize FW...yes, they do, they have, and they will.)
These two make me wonder if GW has found a way to make a multi-part kit that produces both Pirhannas and Tetras. I always like the idea of Tetras, though I never played one. I thought it conceptually suited the Tau doctrine of combined arms- something like a scout jetbike with markerlights to mark a high-value target for Skyray artillery and then get the hell out of dodge before the enemy can muster a retaliation. I thought it was a bit overly tactical for the 40K table but I really, really wanted to get into Epic 40K Tau basically because of them. And the Manta.
Although now that I think about it, with the new emphasis on buying terrain to help your army, drone turrets would also be a logical choice, and the Pirhanna kit would just be to make the TX-42.
There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. (My take is this might actually be a new plastic kit taking over a FW model, and before anyone yells GW doesnt cannibalize FW...yes, they do, they have, and they will.)
Am hoping for XV-9 Hazard Suit, will settle for Tetra. Tetra's are pretty phenomenal, and I would honestly get a lot more use out of them, but the Hazards are just so damn cool.
Milisim wrote:Thank God for the Railgun news! We can now blast through all those pesky AV vehicles... Oh hang on.. A lot of people are on foot now thanks to 6E =]
Ah was a nice gesture anyways =]
So line up three terminators and hit all of them with a S10 AP1 line shot. 83
Tau Codex early next year.
Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. (aside: Dare I start a Spring of Allies moniker...ah well then it will end up being 2 years from now... )
If true then...Yay for a new codex, may our hopes for expanded backstory that maintans continuity come true.
Am fine with the limited access to Kroot and Vespids, especially if there is later a mercenaries supplement that allows for the Rag-Tag Farsight Merc. force mentioned in the Fluff.
Interesting, wonder if this means completely new suits or just new weapon sprues on the old xv-8 chasis.
Kinda have mixed feelings here. On one hand, hope that the changes don't invalidate my FW xv-8 upgrades and that all I have to do is swap weapons. On the other hand, I hope to see sleeker FW style suits in plastic.
Personaly hope that the new Crisis suits are really larger Broadsides and that the Stealth suits get Plasma Rifles and reworked CIB.
Though, Got a feeling that the Stealthsuits will end up getting rail rifles or some type of sniper equivolent.
Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit.
Am hoping that if such is true that we will see just an increase in weapons options. Plasma or Rail Rifles for the nose turret....maybe twin-linking.
At most, Maybe a TX-42 kit that makes it also close topped.
Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them.
About time, Hope that Ethereals are outside of the FoC this time.
There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. (My take is this might actually be a new plastic kit taking over a FW model, and before anyone yells GW doesnt cannibalize FW...yes, they do, they have, and they will.)
Personally, Hope it is the Remoras with improved markerlight and better Burst cannon rules.
The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model.
Why?
New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna.
Wonder if it will be open topped(?). Would be very interesting to have a Fast open-topped transport skimmer when you think about the Jetpacks now being able to be transported.
Flyer has dual gattling cannons
Flyer has option for rail guns
Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?)
A)If dual burst cannons? *meh* ................If dual Heavy or Long-barreled Burst Cannons? Hell yeah!!
B)Rail Guns, that would be very nice. If it is an option then the Flyer will come equipped with Ion Cannon.
c)Bombs??? Sounds a little unfluffy(Unless they are Smart Bombs ). Seems like a clumsy attempt to distinguish it from the Barracuda or Tiger Shark.
Hope the new flyer is the size of the Barracuda or a little smaller.
Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out!
*Meh* Not a fan of the JOWW effect. Sounds like it will be a rules nightmare and will bog the game down with arguments of what gets a coversave.
I will admit that this version of the line effect rumor is much better than previous ones. Still wish that they would just up the RoF on Hammerhead Railguns or have them do an extra point of hull damage for every point that the shot penetrates by(Roll a 4 against AV12 and the vehicle loses 2 HPs and suffer the damage rolled on the vehicle damage table..
There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn.
If true, This would end a lot of arguing about the Tau's role in the 40K universe.
There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options
The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover.
Mixed feelings about this rumor. Transported troops will die if the Flyers gets shot out from under them and the Tau want to minimize unnecessary casualties. Yet it would be nice to deploy Jet-pack Infantry (troops) from a fast moving Flyer/Skimmer. The mobility would be amazing.
Jetpack "Troops" WOOHOO!!, Heres hoping for my beloved xv-15s to become a troop unit.
All in all, I like the sound of most of these rumors.
I would think the best way to utilize the Ethereals would be to play up the "coalition of all castes" angle. Have the ethereal's presence on the battlefield mark a greater degree of involvement from the Earth(better drones), Air(More fliers) and Water(more auxillaries) castes.
Have no clue why they'd want to redo the space pope model. It's not like it was the model itself that made people avoid it like the plague.
Even if they look the same, redoing the stealth suits could just mean that they are remaking the spru so that it has more weapons. Everyone wants there stealth suits to have better guns!
The Stealthsuits are probably going to get a points reduction if the stats and special rules stay as they are.
There was a points premium on that 2d6 x 3 spotting distance.
Expect for them to drop to about 25 points each if they come with the Burst Cannon and then the cost of weapon upgrades will reflect the cost of the BC.
(Plasma rifle for about 10 points and Fusion Blaster & Miss pods for 2-5 points)
Really don't see them getting standard Crisis weapons, rather, things like some form of sniper weapon and markerlights.
Man.....4 stealthsuits w/Plasma rifles coming in at around 35 points each or a team of 3 plasstealths for 105 points would be all kinds of awesome.
In short, everything that they make to the stealth suits, making them less costy, like from 30 to 20 since they are not much better than our regular troops, gettin equipped the same way crisis suits do, and with more options for weapons would be awesome, the Stealth suits getting redone is really good news, i just hate the XV25 model, too much of a bulky guy for a stealth suit, the XV15 are just perfect in every way, maybe XV-22 coming out of the test runs?.And if they change them from Elite to Fast Attack, or Troops with O`Shasherra as HQ (Wich would be the most common thing to do if they do), then i will really have to think about landing more of them each game, since that would make of them a viable choice, the Crisis Suits are just too much of a core for Tau amys.
And please oh gods of GW make the Pathfinders so that they DONT need to take that damm Devilfish. With this im more than happy.
Now bets for the FW model, it could be the TX-42 (Love the piranha, hate the rules), the XV-9, but i just cant see it comming into the Codex that would be just too good, and the Flyer is not a Remora for sure too thiny, they may be doing the Barracuda, since it appeared in the Dawn of War game and its actually pretty nice for everything.
Im also thinking that they might bring the Sentry Drones, and Sensor Towers (Similar things, not equal) to improve the number of FoC choices, in the Tau Codex we jsut got a couple of them for each chart, Vespid, Gundrones (Genius FA choice), and Sniper teams, especially this guys, who are completely out of the game, too much points, and HS choice, so yeah, im goin to pick up 3 antiMEQ shots, when i can pick a twin linked Railgun about the same cost, they are just too bad actually to be considered a real viable option.
They have so much things to improve in the next codex... I hope they actually do half and it will be more than fine.
Stickmonkey wrote:
The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model.
Why?
Yeah. This. Why indeed? It wasn't his MODEL that made people not take him. Let's make his rules not suck and try again.
Captain Avatar wrote:The Stealthsuits are probably going to get a points reduction if the stats and special rules stay as they are.
There was a points premium on that 2d6 x 3 spotting distance.
Expect for them to drop to about 25 points each if they come with the Burst Cannon and then the cost of weapon upgrades will reflect the cost of the BC.
(Plasma rifle for about 10 points and Fusion Blaster & Miss pods for 2-5 points)
Really don't see them getting standard Crisis weapons, rather, things like some form of sniper weapon and markerlights.
Yeah, I've heard alot of people much happier with a 2-4+ cover than with the spotting distance. I preferred the spotting distance and thought the price... appropriate. Ish. Maybe shave off 2-5 pts, but not terrible. Now if they're going to be running around with just the stealth fields, I'd say 25 points is too much. 20pts might be about right, but 22pts puts them in line with most t3 jetpacks/bikes.
Tau Rumors - August 2012 Tau Codex early next year. PENDING Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. PENDING There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. PENDING Crisis suits completely redone. PENDING Stealth suits completely redone. PENDING Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. PENDING New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. PENDING Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. PENDING There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. PENDING The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. PENDING New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. PENDING Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?) PENDING
Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! PENDING There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. PENDING There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options PENDING The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover. PENDING
Digital Releases - August 2012 August: Should be up Saturday (8/1/2012) PENDING Codex: Daemons (obvious) PENDING How to Paint Chaos Daemons PENDING Daemons Tactica PENDING WFB Temple of Skulls scenario PENDING WFB Soul Grinder PENDING
September releases: 6th Ed 40k digital rulebook (will go up same weekend as starter set released) PENDING How to Paint (I am not certain but this may be the same as the flip book that was released earlier this year with the paint set.) PENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
October releases: Codex: CSM (going up same weekend as codex released) PENDING How to paint: CSMPENDING Tactica: CSMPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
November Releases: Codex: Grey Knights PENDING HtP: GKPENDING Tactica: GKPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
December Releases: Codex: Sisters of Battle PENDING HtP: SoBPENDING Tactica: SoBPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
Starter Set - August 2012 October Chaos Space Marines PENDING WoC will drop in Oct or Nov PENDING
Chaos Legions Codex - July 2012 May Chaos Codex FALSE New Plastics PENDING Chaos Dread PENDING Plastic Raptors PENDING Plastic PlagueBearers PENDING New Character Sculpts PENDING Traitor Guard PENDING
4 Legions represented: EC, DG, WE, TS Starter DA Tacs in Starter are not AOBR, but new sculpts with DA icons PENDING Sgt with Combi and Power Sword, 7 Bolter Marines, 1 Meltagun, 1 Plasma Cannon PENDING Release Schedule Rumors - June 2012 Rumored Daemon wave: Plague bearers (5x box) Plastic. Priced as pink horrors FALSE Furies (5x box) plastic. Priced as de scourges FALSE Blue scribes (finecast) TRUE Herald of nurgle (finecast) TRUE Plastic GDs are done, rumored to have pieces to build named GD as variants ( though not expected til 2013) PENDING
Rumored flyer wave: De bomber PENDING Eldar fighter PENDING Tau fighter PENDING
Rumored box set contents: Marines and Chaos PENDING Chaos Space Marines next codex PENDING
Rumored July release: 6th Ed hard back, 6th Ed special edition, Limited templates, game aids, and what not for 6th edition... TRUEWRONG DATE
(On Deffcoptas) They are a little bulkier, but not that much bigger. A few pilot options, and some (I think 2) grot hangers on. And some other flavor bits. Like all ork kits you can go to town with making it unique. It's 1 full sprue per Kotpa. To do 3 per box would mean the rhino size box. PENDING Ork Wave Ork Wave by Spring 2013 PENDING Ork buggy/half track Dakka/skorcha/rokket plastic (3x box) priced like Necron wraiths PENDING Deffcopters all options plastic (3x box) priced like Terminators PENDING Meganobs all options plastic (5x box) priced like terminators PENDING Flashgits upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING Cybork upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING
Daemons - March 2012 Plastic Furies FALSE Plastic Plaguebearers TRUE Karanak and hounds to finecast TRUE
Flyers - June 2012 Before end of August 2012 FALSE Eldar dual kit. Fighter, bomber/heavy, transport. Heavy attack and transport share design PENDING Tau fighter/gunship, size of stormtalon. new missiles options involving markerlights PENDING Tau transport in codex PENDING Dark eldar bomber in August FALSE Third Necron Flyer in 2013-ish PENDING
Eldar Rumors - May 2012 'Early Rumors': All aspects can be troops (may be only one unit), but not through Phoenix Lords. PENDING Point reduction on Guardians. PENDING Tanks (NightS, FP, Falc) have point reduction PENDING Transports the same PENDING Storms are an upgrade to normal guardians PENDING Wraith units move towards guide if out of range. Guides give buffs. PENDING Possible new aspects and wraithguard PENDING Shields for WS will work differently PENDING Phoenix lord table wide buffs for their aspect PENDING
DA Tidbits - Feb 2012 'Wolfguard' chaplains PENDING Plasma Sponsons and Plasma Tanks PENDING DA in Starter Kit PENDING
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421948.page#3767725]Tyranid 2nd Wave Jan 2012 Tyrannofex plastic with options to build as Tervigon, TRUE Tyrannofex not dual with Tervigon (different posts) FALSE Plastic Tyrant with SL bits, TRUE Tyranid direct only lashwhip bonesword upgrade blister for warriors TRUE Doom blister, Parasite, "yrmgarll?" direct only genestealer blister...like flashgit model, one pose, direct only. Harpy, PENDINGWRONG DATE thunderbolt fighter in design for plastic PENDING
Schedule for Releases from Dec 2011 Dec 2011 2012 Q1/2 - tau (or flipped w BT) FALSE 2012 Q2/3 - BT ( possible WD codex) PENDING 2012 Q3 - 6 Ed FALSE 2012 Q3/4 - eldar PENDING
"There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options"
Im getting a feeling that he isnt talking about the fast attack slot =( wish we had more options for that. but if it has rail guns then i could see it being more acceptable
StraightSilver wrote:I have been staying out of the rumours threads for a while now, mainly because a lot of the information I was getting was plain wrong, and also because I was conscious of dropping anybody in it, but I thought I would chip in on this.
The Tau models have apparently been sitting around for quite some time now, some of them were redone over 2 years ago so I am not sure why they have taken so long to be released, but I suspect it's because the models range fits into 6th better than 5th.
They were one of the first armies to get a flyer (outside of IG's Valk / Vendetta), even though it hasn't been released yet.
As for an allies supplement, I was told that next year 40K will have a release very similar in format to the Warhammer Fantasy Storm of Magic supplement. In other words a book, cards and kits that could be used in multiple armies, in the same vein as the monsters from WHFB.
I assumed it would be a big supplement for Psykers, but it could just as well be for allies, as that seems to be the best way for GW to produce new kits without having to invest in a full 'Dex for them.
Now I hate to put Summer into any rumours, but I believe Storm of Magic was released about that time, which would put Tau and allies around June or July ish? However rumours strongly point to Eldar being early in the year, so I'm not sure if we would get 2 Xenos Codexes back to back? Unless GW really are going to do a release every month.
Oh, and Tau getting new Stealthsuit plastics doesn't make sense to me.
I personally am hoping for XV-9 suits to be released in plastic along with the codex whenever it comes out. If Kroot are to be taken in limited numbers now (0-1 even perhaps?) then an assault suit like the hazard config will be a huge blessing. Tack on the fact that my favorite guns they carry are s5 ap5 large blast, and they pack 2 of them each, that's some serious anti infantry firepower. T5 with 2 wounds as well....
I love XV 9 hazard suits, so that's my wishlist for the next codex.
Personally, as a person who continues to play tau (I played them all through 5th) I hope to see:
* a flyer, hopefully the barracuda and remora
I'm sorry but it has to be said, those FW flyers are awful. I hope those things never grace the new Tau Codex. It's a lot of damn points for a couple burst cannons and missile pods, you can take crisis suits that do the same for about 1/5 the point cost. Even with Long-Barreled Burst Cannons they would still be stupidly overpriced. Remoras are on the same wagon imo. The only thing worth taking from FW is the XV9 commander and Tetras.
focusedfire wrote:
Mixed feelings about this rumor. Transported troops will die if the Flyers gets shot out from under them and the Tau want to minimize unnecessary casualties. Yet it would be nice to deploy Jet-pack Infantry (troops) from a fast moving Flyer/Skimmer. The mobility would be amazing.
History has always proven that troops are far safer outside an armored transp-- oh wait. According to the fluff the Devilfish can fly and is capable of orbital entry to bring firewarriors to the frontline. So I see no reason a tau flying transport would be unfluffy.
focusedfire wrote: Mixed feelings about this rumor. Transported troops will die if the Flyers gets shot out from under them and the Tau want to minimize unnecessary casualties. Yet it would be nice to deploy Jet-pack Infantry (troops) from a fast moving Flyer/Skimmer. The mobility would be amazing.
History has always proven that troops are far safer outside an armored transp-- oh wait. According to the fluff the Devilfish can fly and is capable of orbital entry to bring firewarriors to the frontline. So I see no reason a tau flying transport would be unfluffy.
And Devilfish (hell, all of our vehicles except the Piranha) should be able to Deep Strike.
I'm sorry but it has to be said, those FW flyers are awful. I hope those things never grace the new Tau Codex. It's a lot of damn points for a couple burst cannons and missile pods, you can take crisis suits that do the same for about 1/5 the point cost. Even with Long-Barreled Burst Cannons they would still be stupidly overpriced. Remoras are on the same wagon imo. The only thing worth taking from FW is the XV9 commander and Tetras.
IA: Aeronautica slashed the price on the Barracuda almost in half. It's now respectable with all that strength 7 shooting.
Also, it looks cool, and as far as I'm concerned that's the main criteria a unit needs to meet.
As for big multi part Finecast models...Oh dear. Heck, I am the most ardent supporter of Finecast and even I think this is a recipe for disaster. More parts means more things that can go wrong. And plastic is better suited to bigger monsters.
Dantalian wrote:History has always proven that troops are far safer outside an armored transp-- oh wait.
Actually, history has showed this! APCs exist to get infantry to the fight, not for them to shelter inside. Even IFVs exist to provide fire support, not for infantry to fight from them-- while early IFV desgins included firing ports (and even in some cases specialized weapons for passengers to fire from them), this has generally proved ineffectual and fire ports have been removed from most current-generation vehicles, in favor of tactics where the infantry simply dismount and fight alongside or ahead of their vehicles.
pretre wrote:According to the Ongoing Rumor Tracking thread?
Stickmonkey - Total rumors: (8 TRUE) / (10 FALSE) / (84 PENDING)
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - August 2012
Tau Codex early next year. PENDING Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. PENDING There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. PENDING Crisis suits completely redone. PENDING Stealth suits completely redone. PENDING Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. PENDING New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. PENDING Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. PENDING There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. PENDING The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. PENDING New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. PENDING Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?) PENDING
Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! PENDING There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. PENDING There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options PENDING The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover. PENDING
Digital Releases - August 2012
August: Should be up Saturday (8/1/2012) PENDING Codex: Daemons (obvious) PENDING How to Paint Chaos Daemons PENDING Daemons Tactica PENDING WFB Temple of Skulls scenario PENDING WFB Soul Grinder PENDING
September releases:
6th Ed 40k digital rulebook (will go up same weekend as starter set released) PENDING How to Paint (I am not certain but this may be the same as the flip book that was released earlier this year with the paint set.) PENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
October releases:
Codex: CSM (going up same weekend as codex released) PENDING How to paint: CSMPENDING Tactica: CSMPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
November Releases:
Codex: Grey Knights PENDING HtP: GKPENDING Tactica: GKPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
December Releases:
Codex: Sisters of Battle PENDING HtP: SoBPENDING Tactica: SoBPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
Starter Set - August 2012
October Chaos Space Marines PENDING WoC will drop in Oct or Nov PENDING
Chaos Legions Codex - July 2012
May Chaos Codex FALSE New Plastics PENDING Chaos Dread PENDING Plastic Raptors PENDING Plastic PlagueBearers PENDING New Character Sculpts PENDING Traitor Guard PENDING
4 Legions represented: EC, DG, WE, TS Starter DA Tacs in Starter are not AOBR, but new sculpts with DA icons PENDING Sgt with Combi and Power Sword, 7 Bolter Marines, 1 Meltagun, 1 Plasma Cannon PENDING Release Schedule Rumors - June 2012
Rumored Daemon wave:
Plague bearers (5x box) Plastic. Priced as pink horrors FALSE Furies (5x box) plastic. Priced as de scourges FALSE Blue scribes (finecast) TRUE Herald of nurgle (finecast) TRUE Plastic GDs are done, rumored to have pieces to build named GD as variants ( though not expected til 2013) PENDING
Rumored flyer wave:
De bomber PENDING Eldar fighter PENDING Tau fighter PENDING
Rumored box set contents: Marines and Chaos PENDING Chaos Space Marines next codex PENDING
Rumored July release: 6th Ed hard back, 6th Ed special edition, Limited templates, game aids, and what not for 6th edition... TRUEWRONG DATE
(On Deffcoptas)
They are a little bulkier, but not that much bigger. A few pilot options, and some (I think 2) grot hangers on. And some other flavor bits. Like all ork kits you can go to town with making it unique. It's 1 full sprue per Kotpa. To do 3 per box would mean the rhino size box. PENDING Ork Wave Ork Wave by Spring 2013 PENDING Ork buggy/half track Dakka/skorcha/rokket plastic (3x box) priced like Necron wraiths PENDING Deffcopters all options plastic (3x box) priced like Terminators PENDING Meganobs all options plastic (5x box) priced like terminators PENDING Flashgits upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING Cybork upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING
Daemons - March 2012
Plastic Furies FALSE Plastic Plaguebearers TRUE Karanak and hounds to finecast TRUE
Flyers - June 2012
Before end of August 2012 FALSE Eldar dual kit. Fighter, bomber/heavy, transport. Heavy attack and transport share design PENDING Tau fighter/gunship, size of stormtalon. new missiles options involving markerlights PENDING Tau transport in codex PENDING Dark eldar bomber in August FALSE Third Necron Flyer in 2013-ish PENDING
Eldar Rumors - May 2012
'Early Rumors': All aspects can be troops (may be only one unit), but not through Phoenix Lords. PENDING Point reduction on Guardians. PENDING Tanks (NightS, FP, Falc) have point reduction PENDING Transports the same PENDING Storms are an upgrade to normal guardians PENDING Wraith units move towards guide if out of range. Guides give buffs. PENDING Possible new aspects and wraithguard PENDING Shields for WS will work differently PENDING Phoenix lord table wide buffs for their aspect PENDING
DA Tidbits - Feb 2012
'Wolfguard' chaplains PENDING Plasma Sponsons and Plasma Tanks PENDING DA in Starter Kit PENDING
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421948.page#3767725]Tyranid 2nd Wave Jan 2012
Tyrannofex plastic with options to build as Tervigon, TRUE Tyrannofex not dual with Tervigon (different posts) FALSE Plastic Tyrant with SL bits, TRUE Tyranid direct only lashwhip bonesword upgrade blister for warriors TRUE Doom blister, Parasite, "yrmgarll?" direct only genestealer blister...like flashgit model, one pose, direct only. Harpy, PENDINGWRONG DATE thunderbolt fighter in design for plastic PENDING
Schedule for Releases from Dec 2011 Dec 2011
2012 Q1/2 - tau (or flipped w BT) FALSE 2012 Q2/3 - BT ( possible WD codex) PENDING 2012 Q3 - 6 Ed FALSE 2012 Q3/4 - eldar PENDING
Pretre, I'd give Stickmonkey some slack on the 6th ed in Q3 thing-july is month 7, which makes it the beginning of Q3. As it came out a day before that (if memory serves), he was right on the line-give him that one as "correct." Off by a day is not something to be picky about. He called it, he's equal for his non-pending rumors at this point. Think about it, but in your heart, you know it to be true.
Yeah, We ended up giving it to him after some discussion. His record now looks like this: Stickmonkey - Total rumors: (10 TRUE) / (4 FALSE) / (82 PENDING)
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - August 2012 Tau Codex early next year. PENDING Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. PENDING There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. PENDING Crisis suits completely redone. PENDING Stealth suits completely redone. PENDING Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. PENDING New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. PENDING Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. PENDING There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. PENDING The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. PENDING New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. PENDING Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?) PENDING
Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! PENDING There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. PENDING There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options PENDING The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover. PENDING
Digital Releases - August 2012 August: Should be up Saturday (8/1/2012) FALSE Codex: Daemons (obvious) PENDING How to Paint Chaos Daemons TRUE Daemons Tactica PENDING WFB Temple of Skulls scenario PENDING WFB Soul Grinder PENDING
September releases: 6th Ed 40k digital rulebook (will go up same weekend as starter set released) PENDING How to Paint (I am not certain but this may be the same as the flip book that was released earlier this year with the paint set.) PENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
October releases: Codex: CSM (going up same weekend as codex released) PENDING How to paint: CSMPENDING Tactica: CSMPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
November Releases: Codex: Grey Knights PENDING HtP: GKPENDING Tactica: GKPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
December Releases: Codex: Sisters of Battle PENDING HtP: SoBPENDING Tactica: SoBPENDING And a few more WFB PENDING
Starter Set - August 2012 October Chaos Space Marines PENDING WoC will drop in Oct or Nov PENDING
Chaos Legions Codex May Chaos Codex FALSE New Plastics PENDING Chaos Dread PENDING Plastic Raptors PENDING Plastic PlagueBearers PENDING New Character Sculpts PENDING Traitor Guard PENDING 4 Legions represented: EC, DG, WE, TSPENDING
Starter DA Tacs in Starter are not AOBR, but new sculpts with DA icons PENDING Sgt with Combi and Power Sword, 7 Bolter Marines, 1 Meltagun, 1 Plasma Cannon PENDING
Release Schedule Rumors - June 2012 Rumored Daemon wave: Plague bearers (5x box) Plastic. Priced as pink horrors FALSE Furies (5x box) plastic. Priced as de scourges PENDING Blue scribes (finecast) TRUE Herald of nurgle (finecast) TRUE Plastic GDs are done, rumored to have pieces to build named GD as variants ( though not expected til 2013) PENDING
Rumored flyer wave: De bomber PENDING Eldar fighter PENDING Tau fighter PENDING
Rumored box set contents: Marines and Chaos PENDING Chaos Space Marines next codex PENDING
Rumored July release: 6th Ed hard back, 6th Ed special edition, Limited templates, game aids, and what not for 6th edition... TRUE
Ork Wave Ork Wave by Spring 2013 PENDING Ork buggy/half track Dakka/skorcha/rokket plastic (3x box) priced like Necron wraiths PENDING Deffcopters all options plastic (3x box) priced like Terminators PENDING Meganobs all options plastic (5x box) priced like terminators PENDING Flashgits upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING Cybork upgrade finecast (3x clamshell) priced like boneswords PENDING
Daemons - March 2012 Plastic Furies PENDING Plastic Plaguebearers TRUE Karanak and hounds to finecast TRUE
Flyers - June 2012 Before end of August 2012 FALSE Eldar dual kit. Fighter, bomber/heavy, transport. Heavy attack and transport share design PENDING Tau fighter/gunship, size of stormtalon. new missiles options involving markerlights PENDING Tau transport in codex PENDING Dark eldar bomber in August PENDING Third Necron Flyer in 2013-ish PENDING
Eldar Rumors - May 2012 'Early Rumors': All aspects can be troops (may be only one unit), but not through Phoenix Lords. PENDING Point reduction on Guardians. PENDING Tanks (NightS, FP, Falc) have point reduction PENDING Transports the same PENDING Storms are an upgrade to normal guardians PENDING Wraith units move towards guide if out of range. Guides give buffs. PENDING Possible new aspects and wraithguard PENDING Shields for WS will work differently PENDING Phoenix lord table wide buffs for their aspect PENDING
DA Tidbits - Feb 2012 'Wolfguard' chaplains PENDING Plasma Sponsons and Plasma Tanks PENDING DA in Starter Kit PENDING
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421948.page#3767725]Tyranid 2nd Wave Jan 2012 Tyrannofex plastic with options to build as Tervigon, TRUE Plastic Tyrant with SL bits, TRUE Tyranid direct only lashwhip bonesword upgrade blister for warriors TRUE Doom blister, Parasite, "yrmgarll?" direct only genestealer blister...like flashgit model, one pose, direct only. Harpy, PENDINGWRONG DATE thunderbolt fighter in design for plastic PENDING
Schedule for Releases from Dec 2011 Dec 2011 2012 Q1/2 - tau (or flipped w BT) FALSE 2012 Q2/3 - BT ( possible WD codex) PENDING 2012 Q3 - 6 Ed TRUE 2012 Q3/4 - eldar PENDING
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just noticed some more things I want to update in there, so it may change again as well.
One more of his rumors can show up true: WFB soul grinder-they did switch it over in the mini-dex, which I guess could count as a Chaos Daemons codex...maybe. I'll leave that to your discretion, but the WFB soul grinder is a big yes. So I guess he's at 11 true now, one less pending. We do appreciate the hard work in keeping track of what's/who's reliable, so if we/I catch stuff that needs to switch in categories, we'll/I'll let you know.
Yeah, I took a liberty with that one. I'll reverse it if I have to, but it is pretty much set at this point that we're not going to see flyers. Unless they double release on us, in which case I will apologize.
We since we do have 3 saterdays this month left, I wouldn't be too surprised if something big showed up. Maybe the 19th? I'm guessing completely on this btw.
Any one considered that the Stickymonkey is at least half right on the reworked Stealth suits? The XV15 is now available as a 3 pack in finecast. And for not to much more than the old metal blister cost was costing.
- Mako (Plastic, Rhino sized box) <- Rumoured to be a vehicle smaller than Hammerhead but bigger than Piranha
- Commander Farsight (Resin Blister)
- Vespid Stingwings / Vespid Spinewings (Plastic Box)
- Nautilus Defence Platform (Terrain, Plastic, big Land Raider sized box)
shaso_iceborn wrote:Did I not mention a Mako months ago? and the Nautilus is simillar to the defense platform seen in the Apocalypse book from what I hear.
As reference two unreleased Tau terrain pieces:
Also released with the Allies Supplement:
- Kroothawks (Resin)
So the Mako first named by shaso_iceborn over at Warseer seems to be correct. SciFi terrain pieces predicted by Harry seem to be correct. Kroot units partly covered outside the standard Codex seems to be correct.
Keep in mind that these are second wave releases June 2013 or later. First wave is expected first half 2013 and not listed.
I hope that the people at gw are reading today. Having a piece of terrain that can be made into different things would be great. The only problem is what would I choose?
I like the sound of the skimmer/flyer. The mako is a good name I think. I didn't hear that there would be different kinds of vespid. I like the vespid aesthetically so a new group of models to the family would be awesome, so long as that they improve the vespid in general.
This may be somewhat off-topic, but how great would it be if instead of White Dwarf releases, they just packaged the rules WITH the models like Privateer Press did?
) it sounds like an awesome idea, especially if they put the pieces to make an assault suit in the same box as the normal crisis suits. My dream box, a 3 pack like the killakans box containing pieces to make assault suits, broadsides, and normal suits! I am super excited for a flier though!
The only way that such Tau codex could make money would be if they made assault batttlesuits and battlesuits as troops to draw in all of the Space Marine Fanbois.
But then they would be expected to write/create a balanced game system and we all know that 
