It hasn't gone missing. It's been put in the circular filing cabinet.
They were getting a LOT of heat, especially after the news of their latest legal bullying over Spots the Space Mar.......(hit by poison dart from the shadows)
I didn't realise that this was serious enough as to attract the attention of the beeb.
I really don't mind that the FB page is gone, hopefully they'll take the like and tweet buttons off of the site soon enough
Not sure what those have to do with the FB page being removed. FYI, here's a response from GWCS:
Many thanks for your email. The Games Workshop Facebook page has been removed so that the customer interaction goes through our retail stores. This will be via face to face contact with customers while they are visiting the stores, or by using the individual Facebook pages each store has.
The individual stores Facebook pages can be found here;
Facebook, newspapers and the BBC are a fad soon passing away. Like the internet.
On the positive side https://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial is now free for everyone to register And the national and local GW facebook pages are still online, just saying folks
Oh, and the official statement is so obvious, you can't take it seriously, esp. given the convenient time of closure. One-man shop personnell shall handle international complains about GW legal's follies? Really?
I didn't realise that this was serious enough as to attract the attention of the beeb.
I really don't mind that the FB page is gone, hopefully they'll take the like and tweet buttons off of the site soon enough
Not sure what those have to do with the FB page being removed. FYI, here's a response from GWCS:
Many thanks for your email. The Games Workshop Facebook page has been removed so that the customer interaction goes through our retail stores. This will be via face to face contact with customers while they are visiting the stores, or by using the individual Facebook pages each store has.
The individual stores Facebook pages can be found here;
Come on mate.. seriously? I mean I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but sometimes you've got to see the thing labelled 'obvious', with the great big fething red arrow and being pointed at by the giant Neon smiling Malboro man
But why would we want to interact with the local hobby centers when the GW store staff is being actively discouraged from making the stores places to interact?
Pacific wrote: Come on mate.. seriously? I mean I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but sometimes you've got to see the thing labelled 'obvious', with the great big fething red arrow and being pointed at by the giant Neon smiling Malboro man
Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
pretre wrote: Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
Pacific wrote: Come on mate.. seriously? I mean I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but sometimes you've got to see the thing labelled 'obvious', with the great big fething red arrow and being pointed at by the giant Neon smiling Malboro man
Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
Are you serious? You were like the second poster in the thread Kroothawk linked to......
pretre wrote: Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
Pacific wrote: Come on mate.. seriously? I mean I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but sometimes you've got to see the thing labelled 'obvious', with the great big fething red arrow and being pointed at by the giant Neon smiling Malboro man
Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
Are you serious? You were like the second poster in the thread Kroothawk linked to......
And again, serious. I didn't follow the 'gak storm' after the initial posts. I read the first articles about what happened and then the authors response. I usually get bored with those threads after the first page or so because it becomes very circular. Sorry that I didn't follow it as closely as the rest.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial isn't available. :(
I don't know, when all you get from your fans is abuse it's easy to see why they like to step back. Don't get me wrong GW does deserve a fair amount of what gets thrown at it, but it might just be a bit too much to bother attempting to continue any meaningful interaction.
The Forge World Facebook page is still up, though.
They posted this little nugget, though most people here know about it:
As confirmed by Alan Bligh at Games Day, Imperial Armour Volume 12: The Fall of Orpheus will feature a Necron dynasty awakening en masse, and being opposed by Imperial forces led by the Minotaurs chapter and the Death Korps of Krieg.
kronk wrote: The Forge World Facebook page is still up, though.
Of course it is. FW and BL act like utterly different companies to GW - offering previews, talking to fans, showing off WIP's, showing up to various trade shows and conventions.
Why would FW shut down their FB page when GW-proper runs away at the first sign of trouble?
kronk wrote: The Forge World Facebook page is still up, though.
Of course it is. FW and BL act like utterly different companies to GW - offering previews, talking to fans, showing off WIP's, showing up to various trade shows and conventions.
Why would FW shut down their FB page when GW-proper runs away at the first sign of trouble?
My point being, as you are stating, that not everyone over there is a loony when it comes to social media.
I feel sorry for the warhammer world FB page manager who will inevitably be next in line for all of the stress and then be blamed for it!
I actually just looked at the stats for their page last night. 107K likes, most popular city London, UK, most common age range 25-34, current 'likes per week' just under 500 (or was it 600?). Currently 'talking about this' was about 4K people, but skewed because of the arguments over the Space Marine book trademark aggression.
plug time - dont forget Dakka has a facebook page too - http://www.facebook.com/officialdakka We get about 150 new likes per week (1/4 of the rate of GW on average, but drastically more than any other wargaming community website, and we dont push the facebook 'like' button very hard either).
In short, the GW facebook page was probably the fifth largest wargaming 'website' on the web (after the official GW page, dakka, BoLS and warseer). Removing it weakens the hobby for everyone and simply pushes people to places like Dakka where they can learn about other games. Welcome one and all!
legoburner wrote: Removing it weakens the hobby for everyone and simply pushes people to places like Dakka where they can learn about other games. Welcome one and all!
This is like that part in Transformers: The Movie, where the Decepticons crack open the Ark and then start pouring in, massacring all the Autobots. Except in this analogy, Lego is Megatron, Facebook is the Ark, Dreamforge Games is... Starscream, and Jervis is Ratchet, ... maybe Ironhide? Look, the point is, LET THE SLAUGHTER BEGIN!
Ouze wrote: This is like that part in Transformers: The Movie, where the Decepticons crack open the Ark and then start pouring in, massacring all the Autobots. Except in this analogy, Lego is Megatron, Facebook is the Ark, Dreamforge Games is... Starscream, and Jervis is Ratchet, ... maybe Ironhide? Look, the point is, LET THE SLAUGHTER BEGIN!
This probably happened due to Games Workshop posting the most condescending 'We'll defend our TMs/IP however we like' rant on their Facebook. This was followed by an absolutely gakstorm of responses not just from fans but from everyone who could see the page as it got shared and shared and shared.
Next day it's gone. The whole thing.
So, in short, they did in fact ragequit the internet.
I dont have a local GW. How shall I interact with this company I give thousands of dollars a year two?
Will the official website go down soon, leaving only catalogues at the retail stores for product ordering?
Serious question: Why do you need to "interact" with them? I still buy some GW stuff (from overseas retailers). I still intend to play their games and paint their models when I have time (though not to the exclusion of all others). I used to have a close store - but I didn't buy anything but paint or WD from them anyway because of the local prices. Manager and some of the staff (before they were canned) were nice guys. But really, they moved their store and I moved house. I don't need constant interaction with a game company to play their games. I've never hung out on the WOTC forums.
The official website does the job of being a model catalogue. I don't need to chat with their webmaster.
legoburner wrote: Removing it weakens the hobby for everyone and simply pushes people to places like Dakka where they can learn about other games. Welcome one and all!
This is like that part in Transformers: The Movie, where the Decepticons crack open the Ark and then start pouring in, massacring all the Autobots. Except in this analogy, Lego is Megatron, Facebook is the Ark, Dreamforge Games is... Starscream, and Jervis is Ratchet, ... maybe Ironhide? Look, the point is, LET THE SLAUGHTER BEGIN!
What is extra hilarious is that my entire internal network is named after transformers and megatron is my desktop machine (file server is cybertron, old file server is ark, backup server is metroplex, laptop is ravage, firewall is inferno).
legoburner wrote: What is extra hilarious is that my entire internal network is named after transformers and megatron is my desktop machine (file server is cybertron, old file server is ark, backup server is metroplex, laptop is ravage, firewall is inferno).
I want to do that but there's a server I interact with at work named megatron... I could make it work but I'm sooooo lazy.
On Topic: This is hilariously depressing. I keep thinking "One day, maybe soon, they'll figure out what the Internet is."
And then crap like this happens.
I'm honestly surprised - with all the internet raeg why haven't some 4chan geeks or the like not hacked GW by now and leaked all the new releases. It seems like the ultimate fingers to GW and their ludditism
I haven't interacted with GW since the days of the Community Forums, when you could only post glowing appreciation or you would have the thread locked. Why start again now?
cincydooley wrote: Were there really that many of you "interacting" with GW via Facebook anyway? Come on now.
Of course not. The main GW Facebook page was inevitably filled with the kind of hate filled vitriol you see whenever people get relative anonymity via the Internet and instances where they can be "outraged" along with the crowd.
Shifting it all to the local store pages is kind of a brilliant move, I think. It ensures that there's still an avenue for the "sneak peeks" put out weeks late, there's still an avenue for the generic GW advertisements that we used to see on the main GW Facebook page...but there's an added bonus. With the shift to the local store pages, it could hopefully mean that people stop posting the kind of garbage you would see on every posting ("Oh look! I can take out a FineLoan for FineCast!", followed by people 'Liking' that post and the postings from people who had their posts deleted for linking to Mantic/Infinity/whatever outside game on the main GW page) as people realize that they're no longer just a face in the crowd but the locals can put a face to the name.
Edit Note:
I do actually interact with GW via Facebook. The shop near me posts all their schedules on there, takes reservations for tables on there, and does most of the "upkeep" work via Facebook. The manager at the shop has to keep it up to date, and I'm more than willing to take advantage of that.
Yes, but in a brilliant stroke, they removed it, thus showing the social media savvy lacked by know-nothing companies like Nike, Starbucks, McDonalds, Subway, Intel, Walmart, Walt Disney, American Express, Verizon Wireless, Southwest Airlines, Apple, Reebok, the NBA\NHL\NFL, Target, et al...
brillllliiiaannntt.
As much as I understand this is an appeal to authority, the fact that nearly every company on the Fortune 500 list has some sort of Facebook presence must mean they see at least some value from doing so.
BryllCream wrote: If you shove a bag of flaming gak through someone's letter box every single day, you can't complain about them removing the letter box.
Unless you're the internet .
Are those really the only 2 choices?
Interact with the community in such a hostile way that your page is full of negative comments all the time, or pull the page entirely - nothing else in the middle?
To put it differently, why doesn't Forgeworld have this problem, if the issue is with "the internet"?
BryllCream wrote: If you shove a bag of flaming gak through someone's letter box every single day, you can't complain about them removing the letter box.
Kanluwen wrote: Thank you for your insightful and useful commentary, as ever, HBMC.
Give me a break Kan. You seemingly celebrate everything they do. I thought you'd mellowed and ditched the gleaming white armour, but it seems I spoke to soon in that regard. We know full well that if they'd done the exact opposite of this you'd be saying "Shifting all the vitriol away from the store sites and onto the main one is a really smart move".
CIsaac wrote: This probably happened due to Games Workshop posting the most condescending 'We'll defend our TMs/IP however we like' rant on their Facebook. This was followed by an absolutely gakstorm of responses not just from fans but from everyone who could see the page as it got shared and shared and shared.
Next day it's gone. The whole thing.
So, in short, they did in fact ragequit the internet.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was the case. The amount of gak they got was mind-boggling.
cincydooley wrote: Were there really that many of you "interacting" with GW via Facebook anyway? Come on now.
Of course not. The main GW Facebook page was inevitably filled with the kind of hate filled vitriol you see whenever people get relative anonymity via the Internet and instances where they can be "outraged" along with the crowd.
Sorry Kan, but the thousand or so comments about the "space marine v. Space Marine" issue was not about climbing on a bandwagon and raging against GW for rage's sake or being random and anonymous internet tough guys. It was about publicly shaming a company who had blindly overstepped its legal boundaries by claiming that it originated and owned a common sci-fi trope which affected not only the little-known writer of the material, but also flew in the face of 80 years of previously released literature and could have endangered even contemporary popular writers. Bad press for GW, great press for Ms. Hogarth. GW created not space marines but a spirit of sympathy for the little-guy and distaste for themselves.
"I hope you all get cancer" are totally about publicly shaming a company.
Edit note:
This is not me saying "GW totally should have brought down their Facebook page! Suck it haters!", or saying that the above comment is representative of every single comment.
However it is important to recognize that most comments are not helpful or even remotely thought out.
Scott Edwards wrote:Many thanks for your email. The Games Workshop Facebook page has been removed so that the customer interaction goes through our retail stores. This will be via face to face contact with customers while they are visiting the stores, or by using the individual Facebook pages each store has.
Ouze wrote: Hah, they ragequit the internet. Again.
GW reminds me of Cartman from South Park. He's a bitchy little bully who lords over anyone weaker than him but runs away crying like a baby whenever anyone actually stands up to him.
Alkasyn wrote: I don't know whether this is funny or sad.
That's the beauty of schadenfreude, sad = funny. In fact, here's a little song about it...
pretre wrote: Wait, so because of a legal row with some author, they took down their FB page... Kinda reaching isn't it? Was there some huge FB backlash or something to indicate causation?
NoseGoblin wrote: Color me confused.... Tossing away free advertising and social networking just does not make sense.
Time for you to step up and fill in the vacuum, eh? Who's that knocking at mah door? Opportunity? Opportunity who?
Come on over and like my page, I promise I will not be QQ'ing my Facebook site
legoburner wrote: In short, the GW facebook page was probably the fifth largest wargaming 'website' on the web (after the official GW page, dakka, BoLS and warseer). Removing it weakens the h-h-hobby for everyone and simply pushes people to places like Dakka where they can learn about other games. Welcome one and all!
not everything was about that, I saw alot of anger about topics ranging from models to customer service to finecast
I found it nice that PP had no angry comments but lots of praise and good will towards them
GW deserves a lot of the crap it gets, sure it doesn't deserve it all, but it has done things that have rubbed people the wrong way and they deserve to voice their opinions without being called ragequitters or whatever else people tell them.
A customer is allowed to be dissatisfied. I dislike GW a lot, but still like a lot of their models (mostly the OP ones) anything new I buy used as to not support the company.
Not a difference in the grand scheme of things but its just what I do.
Privateer Press deletes a lot of comments off their Facebook page.
Forge World does the same, as does Corvus Belli and pretty much any corporate Facebook page.
Kanluwen wrote: Privateer Press deletes a lot of comments off their Facebook page.
Forge World does the same, as does Corvus Belli and pretty much any corporate Facebook page.
Grimtuff wrote:
Yes, because all of it was undeserved...
White knights gonna white knight.
I didn't say it was undeserved.
But if the fanbase does nothing but troll a specific company to no apparent end, you can't blame them for pulling the plug. People can still interact with their local GW, which I think will result in less trolling - speaking personally the guys at my local store (Derby) are pretty cool guys and I don't wish them any ill will whatsoever.
Ouze wrote:
Are those really the only 2 choices?
Interact with the community in such a hostile way that your page is full of negative comments all the time, or pull the page entirely - nothing else in the middle?
GW do not interact with the community in a "hostile way". Just because they don't release as much information prior to the release of rulebooks/miniatures, doesn't mean they're stumbling around the internet like a drunken rapacious gold-miner in a Californian bar.
You can't honestly tell me that GW rising prices (boo hoo) makes them worthy of being consistantly trolled by thousands of people just because they couldn't be bothered paying attention to business studies in school.
Rainbow Dash wrote: I found it nice that PP had no angry comments but lots of praise and good will towards them
Yes, PP has their share of product problems and yes, they still maintain the good will of the player base despite this. Heck, even Wyrd managed to redeem themselves after the initial horking up of their Malifaux RPG Kickstarter. It is nice. It's also not really that amazing, either. It's called "being considerate". If GW could ever be bothered to care, they could learn a lesson here.
Kanluwen wrote: Privateer Press deletes a lot of comments off their Facebook page. Forge World does the same, as does Corvus Belli and pretty much any corporate Facebook page.
GW could do the same, I supposed. Instead they chose to grab their marbles and stomp out of the playground.
Rainbow Dash wrote: I found it nice that PP had no angry comments but lots of praise and good will towards them
Yes, PP has their share of product problems and yes, they still maintain the good will of the player base despite this. Heck, even Wyrd managed to redeem themselves after the initial horking up of their Malifaux RPG Kickstarter. It is nice. It's also not really that amazing, either. It's called "being considerate". If GW could ever be bothered to care, they could learn a lesson here.
Right. If you don't like something, you reserve the right to hurl abuse at it over the internet.
Rainbow Dash wrote: I found it nice that PP had no angry comments but lots of praise and good will towards them
Yes, PP has their share of product problems and yes, they still maintain the good will of the player base despite this. Heck, even Wyrd managed to redeem themselves after the initial horking up of their Malifaux RPG Kickstarter. It is nice. It's also not really that amazing, either. It's called "being considerate". If GW could ever be bothered to care, they could learn a lesson here.
Right. If you don't like something, you reserve the right to hurl abuse at it over the internet.
Rule 1 doesn't just apply to dakka, you know.
Okay, in this day and age, that's how you give feedback and voice opinion that you weren't satisfied.
Am I supposed to write a letter? Or just say "oh well its my fault that I dislike finecast, etc, nothing I can say or do"
BryllCream wrote: [You can't honestly tell me that GW rising prices (boo hoo) makes them worthy of being consistantly trolled by thousands of people just because they couldn't be bothered paying attention to business studies in school.
You are the first person in this thread to use the word "pricing".
So far as all those other strawmen you raised, the fact that another company did something worse somewhere in the world doesn't excuse any lesser wrongdoing, or the rightful ill-will of the public over those actions.
So, I'll ask again - why doesn't Forgeworld have this problem? Does Kanluwen also recommend the Black Library and Forgeworld should (brilliantly) retire their Facebook pages as well?
Well I guess since GW didn't poison school children I am wrong for being dissatisfied and should go spend a ton of money on the hobby!
How wrong I was!
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Okay, in this day and age, that's how you give feedback and voice opinion that you weren't satisfied.
Am I supposed to write a letter? Or just say "oh well its my fault that I dislike finecast, etc, nothing I can say or do"
Sorry to disapoint you, but your opinion on products is irrelevent. If you don't like a product, don't buy it.
Ouze wrote:
You are the first person in this thread to use the word "pricing".
So far as all those other strawmen you raised, the fact that another company did something worse somewhere in the world doesn't excuse any lesser wrongdoing, or the rightful ill-will of the public over those actions.
So, I'll ask again - why doesn't Forgeworld have this problem? Does Kanluwen also recommend the Black Library and Forgeworld should (brilliantly) retire their Facebook pages as well?
I don't know why Forgeworld doesn't get hate. Why on earth are you asking me to justify other peoples' irrational feelings, that I clearly don't understand myself? I think GW are over-priced, so I use ebay wherever possible. I don't rage at the poor bastard who has to monitor their facebook page.
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Okay, in this day and age, that's how you give feedback and voice opinion that you weren't satisfied.
Am I supposed to write a letter? Or just say "oh well its my fault that I dislike finecast, etc, nothing I can say or do"
Sorry to disapoint you, but your opinion on products is irrelevent. If you don't like a product, don't buy it.
Ouze wrote:
You are the first person in this thread to use the word "pricing".
So far as all those other strawmen you raised, the fact that another company did something worse somewhere in the world doesn't excuse any lesser wrongdoing, or the rightful ill-will of the public over those actions.
So, I'll ask again - why doesn't Forgeworld have this problem? Does Kanluwen also recommend the Black Library and Forgeworld should (brilliantly) retire their Facebook pages as well?
I don't know why Forgeworld doesn't get hate. Why on earth are you asking me to justify other peoples' irrational feelings, that I clearly don't understand myself? I think GW are over-priced, so I use ebay wherever possible. I don't rage at the poor bastard who has to monitor their facebook page.
Well to you but that's the wonderful thing about opinions, no one can take them away from you.
Wrong or right its mine and you can't simply tell me its wrong, others might agree
and who does get an opinion? I buy the product, but my opinion to you is irrelevant? You get to pick and choose the relevant ones?
You can't honestly tell me that GW rising prices (boo hoo) makes them worthy of being consistantly trolled by thousands of people just because they couldn't be bothered paying attention to business studies in school.
Your statements are so intellectually vacuous I honestly don't even know where to begin here. I'm not even going to bother with the Orkmoticons.
I have created a new facebook page offering GW constructive feedback since their own page got taken down.
We have strict rules which (if i am sure to enforce them) mean we should stay within facebooks guidelines (which i have read and re read a bunch of times this evening.) This means there should be no backlash from GW possible.
Please, if you have feedback on any aspect of GW, check it out.
I don't know.
If I had to hazard a guess(is that okay with you, Ouze?), it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders--and being a complete tool to someone when you're trying to convince them to send you free stuff likely is not the best idea or when you're asking them for an update on your order.
Another factor is that quite a few people also use the Forge World page as a place to get comments and criticisms on their WIP projects from FW. Forge World moderates those very closely and does not hesitate to remove people's comments when they engage in douchebaggery.
Rainbow Dash wrote:
Well to you but that's the wonderful thing about opinions, no one can take them away from you.
Wrong or right its mine and you can't simply tell me its wrong, others might agree
and who does get an opinion? I buy the product, but my opinion to you is irrelevant? You get to pick and choose the relevant ones?
Keep going, kiddo. You'll get there eventually.
Breotan wrote:Your statements are so intellectually vacuous I honestly don't even know where to begin here. I'm not even going to bother with the Orkmoticons.
Let's all flop our intellects on the table and see whose is the biggest, eh?
Honestly if you can't be bothered articulating why you disagree with me, don't bother posting at all. Hiding "You're wrong because you're stupid" behind pseudo-intellectual 3rd year English student's language, is neither helpful nor interesting.
I suggest that if you're incapable of expressing why you disagree, you are either wrong (in which case feel free to simply ignore me, no one enjoys admitting publically when they're wrong) or haven't thought about your own view point enough.
Kanluwen wrote: If I had to hazard a guess(is that okay with you, Ouze?), it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders--and being a complete tool to someone when you're trying to convince them to send you free stuff likely is not the best idea or when you're asking them for an update on your order.
I don't see a whole lot of this going on with FW's Facebook page. It tends to me more general "what are you doing next" and "when is that cool fig we saw being released" type questions. A lot of picture sharing goes on there, too.
Kanluwen wrote: Another factor is that quite a few people also use the Forge World page as a place to get comments and criticisms on their WIP projects from FW. Forge World moderates those very closely and does not hesitate to remove people's comments when they engage in douchebaggery.
And yet they don't share in the gackstorm of nerdrage that GW seems to generate perpetually. It's telling that FW cares about the people who buy their product and goes to show how easy it is to have the same level of good will from the players that Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd and others have.
The problem with GW's facebook page was not some customers having a nerdrage about Finecast. It was BBC linking to it in connection to a folly done by GW legal and normal people getting aware of this odd little company. And those poor redshirts in a one-man-GW-store are not trained to answer questions and react to comments about GW legal's doings. GW legal and higher management tries to hide again behind some low level low paid redshirts taking all the piss.
GW's autism is the problem, not the solution. Sadly, all internal feedback loops to end this mismanagement without a bang have been cut off, so there is no smooth evolutional solution for GW to leave that path into more mismanagement, more failures, more isolation, and more public negative feedback.
I feel sorry for the design team, who do tremendous work despite all odds, despite being ordered to do idiotic things that they know won't work. BBC revealing the failures of GW higher management and GW legal is the best way to get rid of the restrains, the creative people still working for GW keep from doing their work. I sincerely hope that closing the facebook page was one folly too much and that the responsible persons have to pay for this, just once.
Kanluwen wrote: it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders
Hah. Going off on a tangent for a second, isn't that totally messed up? I mean, I love FW, but jesus guys. QC.
Anyway, my opinion is that GWS has sown at least some of the ill-will that they are now reaping. What's so special about Games Workshop that they alone are perpetually dead center in the the angry, raging butthole of the internet? I mean, they never lost anyone anyone's luggage, but Southwest Airlines seems to manage to keep their site free of that kind of attention...
Kanluwen wrote: If I had to hazard a guess(is that okay with you, Ouze?), it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders--and being a complete tool to someone when you're trying to convince them to send you free stuff likely is not the best idea or when you're asking them for an update on your order.
I don't see a whole lot of this going on with FW's Facebook page. It tends to me more general "what are you doing next" and "when is that cool fig we saw being released" type questions. A lot of picture sharing goes on there, too.
I knew that there was something in my comment that I should have elaborated on. This tends to be cyclical, with quite a bit of this after Games Days or when a big release hits, and then it gets deleted by Forge World after they get in touch with the people privately.
Kanluwen wrote: Another factor is that quite a few people also use the Forge World page as a place to get comments and criticisms on their WIP projects from FW. Forge World moderates those very closely and does not hesitate to remove people's comments when they engage in douchebaggery.
And yet they don't share in the gakstorm of nerdrage that GW seems to generate perpetually. It's telling that FW cares about the people who buy their product and goes to show how easy it is to have the same level of good will from the players that Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd and others have.
Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
Kanluwen wrote: it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders
Hah. Going off on a tangent for a second, isn't that totally messed up? I mean, I love FW, but jesus guys. QC.
Oh no doubt. Some of it though is because people don't realize that their spam filters are catching Forge World's emails in them and they resort to posting on FW's Facebook page thinking that they are being ignored.
Anyway, my opinion is that GWS has sown at least some of the ill-will that they are now reaping. What's so special about Games Workshop that they alone are perpetually dead center in the the angry, raging butthole of the internet? I mean, they never lost anyone anyone's luggage, but Southwest Airlines seems to manage to keep their site free of that kind of attention...
I will definitely agree that not all of the ill-will was misplaced. I just think that people need to recognize that there is a difference between expressing your frustration and anger constructively and being a tool.
Kanluwen wrote: Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.
Kanluwen wrote: Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.
Yet you don't see any articles about how Hogarth was purposely misleading in her interviews, continually putting forward the idea that she was being sued rather than she was the one considering bringing a suit against Games Workshop.
Kanluwen wrote: If I had to hazard a guess(is that okay with you, Ouze?), it would be because Forge World's Facebook page is often used by people who are trying to expedite the replacement parts process or having questions with their orders--and being a complete tool to someone when you're trying to convince them to send you free stuff likely is not the best idea or when you're asking them for an update on your order.
I don't see a whole lot of this going on with FW's Facebook page. It tends to me more general "what are you doing next" and "when is that cool fig we saw being released" type questions. A lot of picture sharing goes on there, too.
I knew that there was something in my comment that I should have elaborated on. This tends to be cyclical, with quite a bit of this after Games Days or when a big release hits, and then it gets deleted by Forge World after they get in touch with the people privately.
Fair enough. Still, they make the effort and when people find out about it they tend to be a lot more understanding.
Kanluwen wrote: Another factor is that quite a few people also use the Forge World page as a place to get comments and criticisms on their WIP projects from FW. Forge World moderates those very closely and does not hesitate to remove people's comments when they engage in douchebaggery.
And yet they don't share in the gakstorm of nerdrage that GW seems to generate perpetually. It's telling that FW cares about the people who buy their product and goes to show how easy it is to have the same level of good will from the players that Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd and others have.
Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
I don't think this is the case. People post all the time about them, their prices, the quality of their games and figures, etc. With the rare exception, I never see vitriol toward them the way GW manages to culture.
Edit Note:
I do actually interact with GW via Facebook. The shop near me posts all their schedules on there, takes reservations for tables on there, and does most of the "upkeep" work via Facebook. The manager at the shop has to keep it up to date, and I'm more than willing to take advantage of that.
That all sounds fair enough and makes perfect sense, particularly with your local store if you play there. Did you happen to interact with the main FB page as well? I'm just curious.
So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page), but their subsidy FW does. Yet smaller companies have a person who's job it is to take care of communication and correspondence as well, a minister of information if you will. This person (and staff?) is responsible for updating, responding to, and limiting trolls on their chosen form of interaction media whether that is a Facebook page or an official forum.
Edit Note:
I do actually interact with GW via Facebook. The shop near me posts all their schedules on there, takes reservations for tables on there, and does most of the "upkeep" work via Facebook. The manager at the shop has to keep it up to date, and I'm more than willing to take advantage of that.
That all sounds fair enough and makes perfect sense, particularly with your local store if you play there. Did you happen to interact with the main FB page as well? I'm just curious.
I did, but not nearly as much as my local shop's page.
xraytango wrote:So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page), but their subsidy FW does. Yet smaller companies have a person who's job it is to take care of communication and correspondence as well, a minister of information if you will. This person (and staff?) is responsible for updating, responding to, and limiting trolls on their chosen form of interaction media whether that is a Facebook page or an official forum.
Just how does that go?
They did have people on staff to monitor the Facebook page.
To put it bluntly though, no matter how it went they would have been deleting huge swathes of posts and just hoping that people would pretend the whole thing never happened or having to put forward a "don't talk about this" policy in place and deleting any mention of it.
xraytango wrote: So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page)
No, they do. It's just that he's busy as hell, since he's in charge of their legal department as well as responsible for QC on the finecast line.
xraytango wrote: So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page)
No, they do. It's just that he's busy as hell, since he's in charge of their legal department as well as responsible for QC on the finecast line.
Kanluwen wrote: Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.
My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.
And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".
Kanluwen wrote: Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?
Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.
My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.
And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".
That's my point.
She never mentioned it, but never once did she ever correct anyone about it.
She had all these people fawning over her, talking about getting her pro bono legal help for a lawsuit that was not happening.
There is more to pro bono than just dealing with court cases. Just talking with a lawyer costs money, you dig? It could be consulting sessions, research time (paid to the lawyer, done by a paralegal), filing documents, etc.
Many lawyers do pro bono work and never see the inside of a courtroom because they are doing less than glamorous things like writing wills, deeds, and other boring stuff.
The SFWA wants to get a lawyer on board pro bono so that an enthusiastic and creative person doesn't get overwhelmingly crushed by a ponderous and slightly malevolent big business.
Why should she have to disclose that she was not being sued?
I never heard about GW having to disclose that they didn't have a leg to stand on when sending C&D letters either or when jumping on Amazon to remove the e-book.
As long as Ms Hogarth did not lie she is very free to control what information she releases any way she wants and it's up to the other side to make any appropiate counterclaims... Ah! but GW has a blanket policy of not talking to anybody so then tough luck to them.
Seems weird they didn't just release what they put on FB to the press. Investors are more likely to notice something in the Financial Times or the BBC than on GW's facebook page.
Deleting your FB page is what a 16 year old girl does when theyre embarrassed online.
On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.
xraytango wrote: ...
My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.
And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".
That's my point.
She never mentioned it, but never once did she ever correct anyone about it.
She had all these people fawning over her, talking about getting her pro bono legal help for a lawsuit that was not happening.
Sigh...
This is a singularly ill-informed and biased view of the situation. MCA Hogarth had her book removed from Amazon's e-book listings following an improper (and easily discernibly improper, which arguably makes it unethical) request under the DMCA. Which, as the prior link goes into at greater length, is improper on its face. The chilling (in the legal sense) effects of GW's actions are not limited to those enforced by suit.
While GW's claims and actions were both risible and scurrilous, Hogarth, not being a legal expert of any kind, was a) not possessed of the legal acumen to fight them, and b) clearly unable to afford to hire the needed legal expertise.
Thus, the notion that her need was illusory simply because there was no immediate notice of a suit is clearly mistaken. Nor is pro bono work limited to suits under law sui generis.
Ergo, MCAH's public stance is entirely proper, as is the assistance apparently rendered to her pro bono by the EFF: their actions served the public good in providing legal recourse for someone otherwise incapable of properly asserting their rights against the improper and unethical actions of GW.
You'd think that I wouldn't be shocked by this, but I really am. I just don't understand how a company like Games Workshop can't see the value in PR. Actually, I do understand - it is because they don't really give a gak about the people that purchase their products nor play their game. They don't really care if you hate them or not. They don't care if you think what they do is a bad idea. To them, you've either purchased an army already and you're expendable, or you haven't purchased an army and you're going to be convinced by friends or by visiting their one-man operations. So, what is the point in wading through the vitriol from people you really don't care about?
At least, that's the way it seems from this average consumer's point-of-view.
Medium of Death wrote: I don't know, when all you get from your fans is abuse it's easy to see why they like to step back. Don't get me wrong GW does deserve a fair amount of what gets thrown at it, but it might just be a bit too much to bother attempting to continue any meaningful interaction.
Tough noogies. Other companies seem to manage. Hell, even gun manufacturers have Facebook sites, and you can't tell me that the crap we sling at GW is in any way comparable to what those guys wade through.
d3m01iti0n wrote: On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.
Ironically, I'm pretty sure the book sucks, like almost all other self-published novels peddled on the Internet.
Ozymandias wrote: You're kidding right? I'm not even sure what he posted was in English.
Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone else is as ignorant as you.
It had content, it had an indication that there was more to this game then little men and dice and other stuff that costs money, it said that you can use your imagination to create your own things and to above all else, enjoy the game. Seems like GW themselves have forgotten what the most important rule is.
It had content, it had an indication that there was more to this game then little men and dice and other stuff that costs money, it said that you can use your imagination to create your own things and to above all else, enjoy the game. Seems like GW themselves have forgotten what the most important rule is.
GOOD GOD, it was actually usable, heck I could imagine myself returning to the site more then once simply for the modelling articles, painting articles and god forbid gaming articles. Oh well, GW is getting the arse spanked at the moment when it comes to being innovative. Look at Privateer Press.... A flippen app for you phone or tablet that you can connect to other players to record damage, check rules, create armies and monitor what damage the other player has taken.
It will be interesting to see if/when Games Workshop starts to lose market share, and decide to throw caution and lawyers out the window and get on with being a gaming company rather then relying on their IP to save them
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.
I can't relate to any of the people saying that they don't feel that they can interact socially within their local hobby store because the staff are actively told to discourage it. I've been into the hobby less than a year, but the staff at my local store made the effort to learn my name, the armies I play and always encourage me to come in and visit them, even if it's just to sit and paint with them in a social capacity. Just last Monday I spent the entire day up there and didn't spend a penny (well I did, but it was on lots of coffee).
I must just be one of the lucky ones with a local GW that offers outstanding customer service and is a genuinely pleasant place to be.
As for the Facebook going down, does anyone really care that much? All it used to do was dump a link to White Dward Daily on my feed, which I can readily access through the official website's homepage anyway. My local store's Facebook is still alive and kicking.
Don't get me wrong, the whole legal issue with the term 'Space Marine' and the independent auther who's getting heat from GW is disgusting, but that's an issue for another thread.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.
Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. ... Haters love to hate on GW.
I think this weird obsession with hatred should be nicknamed the Phydox Fallacy. I don't hate GW. I laugh at them. There's a distinction, the subtleties of which are sadly lost on some.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.
Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.
They earned back a lot of rep at Toyfair 2013 when they announced IDW figures, Voyager Springer and Blitzwing, and the 24" Metroplex, though.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. ... Haters love to hate on GW.
I think this weird obsession with hatred should be nicknamed the Phydox Fallacy. I don't hate GW. I laugh at them. There's a distinction, the subtleties of which are sadly lost on some.
GW's response has been the catalyst for much of that hate. When a person complains, they expect their grievances to be noticed at some point by someone to which must owe up to that problem. GW has made very few gestures they actually care (now for why they shouldn't care):
The internet makes it hard to assess how much a company should care of one's gripes. DakkaDakka has a very vocal minority of players who voice their displeasure, but in the context, how big is that minority?
Not enough for GW to deign a response. The sampling size is small against the tens of millions they make every year doing what they have always done.
Thus the vocal minority will continue to complain.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.
Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.
They earned back a lot of rep at Toyfair 2013 when they announced IDW figures, Voyager Springer and Blitzwing, and the 24" Metroplex, though.
Botcon seekers murdered my family! Between that and the rampant Energon Galvatron fraud, I had to bow out of the TF online community.
I have to say the Wargaming community is also getting to be that unreasonable... Way too much Schadenfreuden going on.
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.
Don't confuse hate for some people who are tired of the way GW is doing their business.
I like the fluff that GW has created and still find myself looking back and wishing I enjoyed the game more. OTOH, I dislike GW as a business and their bad move after bad move and their school-yard-bullying way about things.
It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.
I think that people get worked up over GW too much. I do agree that as a long-time hobbyist it is fustrating to see GW slowly go down hill in terms of price and the quality of the codexes/fluff, however, there is a simple solution to this... invest more in other game systems and less in GW products. There are plenty of great minatures companies out there which provide excellent quality models at a decent price as well as respecting and listening to the fan-base.
d3m01iti0n wrote: Deleting your FB page is what a 16 year old girl does when theyre embarrassed online.
On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.
Ok, now I'm honestly interested in how many copies of "Spots the Space Marine" sells compared to "Death from the Skies."
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.
Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.
Back in my GIJoe days when I trolled HISSTank, there was nowhere near the amount of hate than Ive seen here. There was a bit of bitching, yes, but Hasbro was great about previews, Q & A sessions, and if there was enough of a demand for a certain character or vehicle they would make a point to get it out eventually. And then there was nothing but praise for them. And this was before the first movie and during the first movie, when everything was limited production and it was pretty much only the collectors buying product.
My posts about the price hikes or the C&D letters or the attitude, about 2 or so years ago, would have been furious and indignant. Now they are just tired, resigned. I can't get angry about it any more because it's all I can expect from the corporate and legal aspects of that company. It's a constant, daily update of 'what have they done now? Oh good grief...'
It goes on and on, I'll buy what I like and can justify to myself spending the money on, which is decreasing on both counts with each new revelation of GW's spiteful greed and bizarre attitude.
GW has gotten passed the point of hate for many. It is worse, many are heading towards apathy.
Hate, at least shows consideration and generates talk.
Many regulars here are saying "yes" and leaving this "debate" to the knights.
Edit
LoL Phone put this in the wrong thread-at least it somewhat relates.
Blame the phone!
All I know is that my three kids are getting old enough to be taking an interest in my miniatures an games. I used to think that it ould be great o bring them into the fold so to speak. But now I don't want them even to consider GW. Just waiting for he iron core game to start..
MetalOxide wrote: It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.
Try reversing the order of those sentences, and see if suddenly, things more sense.
I also don't "hate" GWS. I hate onions and stubbed toes and the flu and, for no explainable reason, Carson Daly, but I don't hate GWS.
I find it hilarious; as I would for any multi-million dollar global corporation acting like a teenage girl and deleting her myspace.
My posts about the price hikes or the C&D letters or the attitude, about 2 or so years ago, would have been furious and indignant. Now they are just tired, resigned. I can't get angry about it any more because it's all I can expect from the corporate and legal aspects of that company. It's a constant, daily update of 'what have they done now? Oh good grief...'
It goes on and on, I'll buy what I like and can justify to myself spending the money on, which is decreasing on both counts with each new revelation of GW's spiteful greed and bizarre attitude.
This bears repeating... I think ultimately the word I can best use to describe it is 'ugly'. The whole thing - the prices, lack of development, the disdain with which they view their customers. They are undeserving of the obsessive and at times OTT attraction the fanbase has had for them, and as a result that 'love' has started to twist into something on the flip side of the coin. I'm sure there is an analogy with Fatal Attraction, Michael Douglas and bunny boilers here
Phydox wrote: It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.
The only hate I have for GW is ruining my favorite ruleset (WHFB), as 8th pretty much killed all interest in my area and occasionally it's possible to get a game of 6th or 7th in but at about 5% of the frequency I used to be able to.
Mainly I pity them because it is obvious they are a ship of fools.
Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
Got news for you sunshine; It's not GW we get mad at. That is more what MGS already said. It's GW's exalted shining whiter than white knights of justice that piss us off.
MetalOxide wrote: It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.
Try reversing the order of those sentences, and see if suddenly, things more sense.
I also don't "hate" GWS. I hate onions and stubbed toes and the flu and, for no explainable reason, Carson Daly, but I don't hate GWS.
I find it hilarious; as I would for any multi-million dollar global corporation acting like a teenage girl and deleting her myspace.
You are quite right, it was very foolish of GW to delete the FB page.
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
Amazing amounts of digital information never goes away. Unfortunately, Google only cached the first 30 or so comments (there are other sites which deal with social media and FB specifically which likely have more stored though). This reply was exceptionally prophetic:
If I am impressed with one thing in GW's handling of all of this it is that they have not conducted a serial purge of every last comment on this post.
Then again, it is the middle of the night in the UK.
I guess I'll give them until tomorrow morning to live up to my expectations.
Granted, when they woke up the next morning - they didn't purge the comments...they purged their entire page.
Sean_OBrien wrote: Granted, when they woke up the next morning - they didn't purge the comments...they purged their entire page.
Clearly whoever is in charge of social media at GW (in addition to other important duties like making sure the trash goes out on garbage day and the coffee machine has enough filters) is a diehard SOB player.
I don't think we actually are served by a true tipping point. I happen to like the current slow slide where GW cranks up their prices, doesn't communicate with their customers in any meaningful fashion and slowly just bleeds their market share away to competitors.
In the last 10 years we have more options for figures and rules than any time before. I want GW to keep giving away their market share with annual price hikes and alienating decisions like shutting down their facebook or not allowing gaming in their stores, or finecast or whatever.
Take a look at the pricing of the new Warriors of Chaos stuff-- it's at a perfect level to reduce volume of sales and market share. Let's have more of that GW!
No reason for a true tipping point or going all down hill. Let's have more relatively flat revenue and big price hikes so more and more of the market share can be distributed to competitors. The internet makes it easier than ever before for potential customers to be connected directly with new manufacturers. GW can ignore the internet-- it's only good for the hobby as a whole if they do.
I have to agree with agustin. I have been wargaming for a relatively short period of time, 5 or 6 years but in that time so many other companies have sprung up and it is brilliant! I haven't made an actual GW purchase since 2011 (although I still have heaps of their stuff to paint!). The main reason for that is that there is just so much other stuff out there that keeps distracting me. Not saying I would ever want GW to reach a tipping point, just for them to shrink a little to allow some more variety into our little hobby...
I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).
This really boggles the mind. GW is so scared of the Internet it isn't funny. Even mom and pop restaurants around here have a FB page. What a bunch of children they are. I have no idea which genius in advertising thought it was. God idea to cut the. Off,from the Internet, which is the exact opposite of what every other business in the world is doing. No, GW doesn't know more then every other company in the world.
As for them taking it down over "hate", that's nonsense. Every other company in the world (including ones that generate far more heated debates like apple and Walmart) manages a FB page fine. He'll if the fething Israeli Army manages a FB despite online hate, so can GW.
agustin wrote: I don't think we actually are served by a true tipping point. I happen to like the current slow slide where GW cranks up their prices, doesn't communicate with their customers in any meaningful fashion and slowly just bleeds their market share away to competitors.
In the last 10 years we have more options for figures and rules than any time before. I want GW to keep giving away their market share with annual price hikes and alienating decisions like shutting down their facebook or not allowing gaming in their stores, or finecast or whatever.
Take a look at the pricing of the new Warriors of Chaos stuff-- it's at a perfect level to reduce volume of sales and market share. Let's have more of that GW!
No reason for a true tipping point or going all down hill. Let's have more relatively flat revenue and big price hikes so more and more of the market share can be distributed to competitors. The internet makes it easier than ever before for potential customers to be connected directly with new manufacturers. GW can ignore the internet-- it's only good for the hobby as a whole if they do.
So, all down hill with the brakes half way on?
Dude, what you describe is the downfall of GW, just at a slow pace.
So we all agree they are on a unsustainable path then?
I don't see where GW going down fast would mess up what you want? Then you'd have an explosion of 'market share', not a slow trickle.
Not to mention, I honestly don't think GW will 'right the ship' without a buyout or hostile management take over.
They have shown NO, ZERO, NADA, sign that they are going to get off the wrong track.
Rainbow Dash wrote: I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).
Shut the apoligists up? Heaven forbid! I get hours of humorous thoughts just listening to what they say.... that all is well with the ivory towers in GW land.
I'm starting to feel like a prisoner waiting for a hero to swoop in and save me.
I think GW's behaviour is beyond sad, its reprehensible. Unfortunately, they still have some advantages over other companies. I cannot wait until someone more worthy of my money shows up. I few so bad for those individuals who work for the company, in so far as they are even more trapped by this companies idiocy than I am.
Rainbow Dash wrote: I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).
You have an opinion of your own, shocking, how dare you!
Back to the indoctrination center!
But Anyways Fanboyz make the forum interesting.
And i think GW is past the tipping point, just see the amount of different systems on the market.
Dude, what you describe is the downfall of GW, just at a slow pace.
So we all agree they are on a unsustainable path then?
Yes.
I don't see where GW going down fast would mess up what you want? Then you'd have an explosion of 'market share', not a slow trickle.
Not to mention, I honestly don't think GW will 'right the ship' without a buyout or hostile management take over.
They have shown NO, ZERO, NADA, sign that they are going to get off the wrong track.
The reason a slow change is better than a sudden one is that it doesn't shock the distribution system or retailers. If GW were to suddenly announce a given line is cut (like say, WFB) then retailers end up getting stuck with tons of dead stock. Or if GW went under (honestly that's not even on the radar for the next few years as they have good access to debt and can ride out a rough patch) then they'd be stuck with even more dead stock. A slow transition allows everyone the chance to expand their non-GW ranges. It allows GW employees to trickle back into the job market rather than flooding it (well, as much as they would being that GW is small). Ex-GW creative types have been finding homes at various other miniature companies and this can continue. It gets people used to the idea of variety rather than getting everything from one company. The wider gaming community is getting more and more receptive to variety, but I don't think many 40k and WHFB fans are ready to embrace all the other options out there. I think more time and more options and more projects and GW pulling more and more out of touch is better than a rapid change. A slow transition of market share from GW to competitors is also easier on the available capital pool. Having a sudden vacuum in the market might cause a lot of great projects to not get funded enough to be brought to market. People might start calling the end of the hobby as a whole and say that the whole hobby is in decline from the one largest player failing. And perception can become reality in such a circumstance.
A slow descent into irrelevancy is the best for everyone. GW has left facebook, maybe they'll pull back even more and just fade away over the next decade. They might stabilize at some point, but in a much diminished capacity. Or they can go under. It doesn't matter once they are irrelevant.
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AesSedai wrote: I'm starting to feel like a prisoner waiting for a hero to swoop in and save me.
I think GW's behaviour is beyond sad, its reprehensible. Unfortunately, they still have some advantages over other companies. I cannot wait until someone more worthy of my money shows up. I few so bad for those individuals who work for the company, in so far as they are even more trapped by this companies idiocy than I am.
Are you sure a more worthy alternative isn't out there already? Why not try getting a few models you've seen and liked from other manufacturers and paint them up and see if you get the same sort of enjoyment out of them as you do out of GW's products? Maybe you don't need a complete package from a single company to fulfill your hobby needs.
Yep, their livelihood is dependent on GW decisions out of their control and keeping their job is dependent on selling more product than the year before in spite of GW's behavior. What a crappy position to find oneself in.
Yep, their livelihood is dependent on GW decisions out of their control and keeping their job is dependent on selling more product than the year before in spite of GW's behavior. What a crappy position to find oneself in.
-a
If it is any comfort - the vast majority of them have nothing to do with miniatures. Out of around 2000 employees, only 280 or so of them are involved with design and manufacture (with the majority being on the manufacture side of things...so they could go make spoons just as well as miniatures).
The rest are retail or management - so no losses there (or flooding of the miniature employment market).
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Still haven't seen any discussion making this news or a rumor. either people didn't know there was a GW Facebook page or they didn't care.
Either way, the sky is not falling
The sky is simply filled with the regular slings and arrows that rain down on a daily basis. It's just one more arrow shot at BS 1 firing into cover with a 2++ save and FNP.
Just not going to happen to make any difference in the gaming world...
I agree with WarOne, the fb page in and of itself isn't going to make a real difference in the gaming world. I'm pretty sure I've only seen that page once myself.
However, gw does have a serious problem, which the previous CEO was probably quite aware of. The chapter house suit was not quite the cakewalk I'm sure they thought it would be. This take down notice backfired so badly that people are wondering whether it was illegally done. Both were started prior to mark wells leaving. Although, if I had to take a guess I'd say Tom Kirby was probably the main driver of the legal team.
The fb page isn't a harbinger of much except that Tom Kirby should be pushed out somehow and replaced with someone that has a long term vision for the company before it really is too late. By long term, I mean more than the next 3 years.
It's going to be rough for awhile before it even has a chance to get better.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Still haven't seen any discussion making this news or a rumor. either people didn't know there was a GW Facebook page or they didn't care.
No matter how many times you express your opinion in this thread that you personally feel is not newsworthy, clearly many other people disagree with you, and I suggest you simply find another thread to read, instead of repeatedly sipping the sour milk and informing everyone in earshot "this milk's gone bad" over and over again.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Still haven't seen any discussion making this news or a rumor. either people didn't know there was a GW Facebook page or they didn't care.
AesSedai - is there absolutely nothing else on the market at the moment that piques your interest?
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Still haven't seen any discussion making this news or a rumor. either people didn't know there was a GW Facebook page or they didn't care.
Either way, the sky is not falling
it is, the first space rocks arrived in Russia this morning, and take a look at the sky tonight with DA-14
violenceha over at Warseer wrote:Citadel sand, now available in head size tubs.
Do they sell FineOstrich masks too? They could make tons of money on those.
Yes, that was the joke, congratulations on spelling it out for everyone.
Harriticus wrote: This really boggles the mind. GW is so scared of the Internet it isn't funny. Even mom and pop restaurants around here have a FB page. What a bunch of children they are. I have no idea which genius in advertising thought it was. God idea to cut the. Off,from the Internet, which is the exact opposite of what every other business in the world is doing. No, GW doesn't know more then every other company in the world.
As for them taking it down over "hate", that's nonsense. Every other company in the world (including ones that generate far more heated debates like apple and Walmart) manages a FB page fine. He'll if the fething Israeli Army manages a FB despite online hate, so can GW.
TLDR: what the hell are they doing?
GW still has Facebook pages, just for the individual stores rather than one global "Games Workshop" page.
The thing is, a Facebook page that large does work as a form of advertising, and when there is so much vitriol on the page (from various sources) that it actually becomes a negative advertisement, then of course GW are going to get rid of the page. They're paying someone to look after it, it's costing them money, but the only impression it would give to anyone new isn't "we make really nice models" it's "everyone that comments on this page hates GW, therefore the company must suck", then they're paying money to lose interest in their product.
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.
Generally speaking you make more money with happy customers than with angry ones.
Generally speaking you make more money if your customers and retailers know what's coming and can get excited.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep popular products like Space Hulk in production.
Generally speaking you make more money if popular products like Horus Heresy figures are widely available rather than mail order exclusives from the UK.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep fans engaged and interested, it stops them from drifting off to other compeditors.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans feel they're getting good value for their money and not being charged $75 for 4 figures.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans are confident the products they buy are free of production problems and are of acceptable quality.
BUt then again I'm not Tom Kirby so what do I know.
Ouze wrote: No matter how many times you express your opinion in this thread that you personally feel is not newsworthy, clearly many other people disagree with you, and I suggest you simply find another thread to read, instead of repeatedly sipping the sour milk and informing everyone in earshot "this milk's gone bad" over and over again.
But what would Solo do if he couldn't do that? He'd almost literally have nothing else to post! Don't take his bread and butter away from him.
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.
Generally speaking you make more money with happy customers than with angry ones.
Generally speaking you make more money if your customers and retailers know what's coming and can get excited.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep popular products like Space Hulk in production.
Generally speaking you make more money if popular products like Horus Heresy figures are widely available rather than mail order exclusives from the UK.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep fans engaged and interested, it stops them from drifting off to other compeditors.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans feel they're getting good value for their money and not being charged $75 for 4 figures.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans are confident the products they buy are free of production problems and are of acceptable quality.
BUt then again I'm not Tom Kirby so what do I know.
So much this, once upon a time GW could do what they wanted and managed to get away with it but they refuse to accept that times have changed and are paying for it.
Baragash wrote: So the solution is to take down the FB page..... or to act to make everyone not hate you so much so the FB page becomes a place of joyous frolics?
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.
Generally speaking you make more money with happy customers than with angry ones.
Generally speaking you make more money if your customers and retailers know what's coming and can get excited.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep popular products like Space Hulk in production.
Generally speaking you make more money if popular products like Horus Heresy figures are widely available rather than mail order exclusives from the UK.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep fans engaged and interested, it stops them from drifting off to other compeditors.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans feel they're getting good value for their money and not being charged $75 for 4 figures.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans are confident the products they buy are free of production problems and are of acceptable quality.
BUt then again I'm not Tom Kirby so what do I know.
Generally speaking you are very precise on what to do in order to keep customers happy. And I totally agree with you my friend.
hellpato wrote: Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....
But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.
Generally speaking you make more money with happy customers than with angry ones.
Generally speaking you make more money if your customers and retailers know what's coming and can get excited.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep popular products like Space Hulk in production.
Generally speaking you make more money if popular products like Horus Heresy figures are widely available rather than mail order exclusives from the UK.
Generally speaking you make more money if you keep fans engaged and interested, it stops them from drifting off to other compeditors.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans feel they're getting good value for their money and not being charged $75 for 4 figures.
Generally speaking you make more money if fans are confident the products they buy are free of production problems and are of acceptable quality.
BUt then again I'm not Tom Kirby so what do I know.
Generally speaking you are very precise on what to do in order to keep customers happy. And I totally agree with you my friend.
The caricature of GW's bad decisions seems enough such that they should be begging another larger entity to swallow them up and save them from utter ruin and bankruptcy.
And yet here we are; they make money (if not large bushels of it) and are the evil empire of the miniatures world. Of the things KK listed above, GW has to do some of what was described or else they would literally be a footnote in history. We just don't get to see everything they do.
And don't mistake me; they make boatloads of mistakes. But they're not in the market to be a money losing enterprise. They have to do some things right to still be alive.
The caricature of GW's bad decisions seems enough such that they should be begging another larger entity to swallow them up and save them from utter ruin and bankruptcy.
And yet here we are; they make money (if not large bushels of it) and are the evil empire of the miniatures world. Of the things KK listed above, GW has to do some of what was described or else they would literally be a footnote in history. We just don't get to see everything they do.
And don't mistake me; they make boatloads of mistakes. But they're not in the market to be a money losing enterprise. They have to do some things right to still be alive.
Well there is that theory that Kirby is just running it into the ground so he can sell off all his shares right before the crash then buy them all back for a hundredth of the price and start the process over again. That or he is simply seeing the company going downhill and is killing any hope of long term viability to keep it afloat short term so he can retire in a couple of years.
He's already a multimillionaire after issue himself millions in bonus money during the LotR boom. Not to mention the stock options in 2007 and paying himself even more through borrowing to pay dividends.
GW's current path has made him rich. Why should be change direction now when he can just slash more staff costs, switch more stores to one person operations, offer less services and increase prices? As long as revenue stays flat, he'll just issue more dividends and that'll be that.
There's no reason for GW to actually communicate with their customers when it becomes clear that the goal of GW is to extract share holder equity into Kirby's personal account.
GW is Kirby's cash cow and he'll keep milking it like mad. If things go south before he's gone, maybe he can negotiate a buy out that pays him even more of a bonus than LOTR did.
Well there is that theory that Kirby is just running it into the ground so he can sell off all his shares right before the crash then buy them all back for a hundredth of the price and start the process over again. That or he is simply seeing the company going downhill and is killing any hope of long term viability to keep it afloat short term so he can retire in a couple of years.
Remember, Kirby has been running the company since the late 1991 when he bought it out from the previous owner and was working at GW long before that. The whole, run it into the ground to make a quick buck rings hollow in that sense. He could have cashed out a long time ago.
We'll see if the Facebook shutdown is permanent or simply, wait for the storm to pass and reopen.
The caricature of GW's bad decisions seems enough such that they should be begging another larger entity to swallow them up and save them from utter ruin and bankruptcy.
And yet here we are; they make money (if not large bushels of it) and are the evil empire of the miniatures world. Of the things KK listed above, GW has to do some of what was described or else they would literally be a footnote in history. We just don't get to see everything they do.
And don't mistake me; they make boatloads of mistakes. But they're not in the market to be a money losing enterprise. They have to do some things right to still be alive.
Well there is that theory that Kirby is just running it into the ground so he can sell off all his shares right before the crash then buy them all back for a hundredth of the price and start the process over again. That or he is simply seeing the company going downhill and is killing any hope of long term viability to keep it afloat short term so he can retire in a couple of years.
The corporation is known for it's disinformation/misinformation tactics and over the years there have been people really looking at the suspect financials.
The only way this company is going to go anywhere is when Kirby retires. Otherwise you are going to get the same song and dance that people been hearing for years.
The caricature of GW's bad decisions seems enough such that they should be begging another larger entity to swallow them up and save them from utter ruin and bankruptcy.
And yet here we are; they make money (if not large bushels of it) and are the evil empire of the miniatures world. Of the things KK listed above, GW has to do some of what was described or else they would literally be a footnote in history. We just don't get to see everything they do.
And don't mistake me; they make boatloads of mistakes. But they're not in the market to be a money losing enterprise. They have to do some things right to still be alive.
Well there is that theory that Kirby is just running it into the ground so he can sell off all his shares right before the crash then buy them all back for a hundredth of the price and start the process over again. That or he is simply seeing the company going downhill and is killing any hope of long term viability to keep it afloat short term so he can retire in a couple of years.
I've heard rumblings. This isn't as far-fetched as it sounds.
Well there is that theory that Kirby is just running it into the ground so he can sell off all his shares right before the crash then buy them all back for a hundredth of the price and start the process over again. That or he is simply seeing the company going downhill and is killing any hope of long term viability to keep it afloat short term so he can retire in a couple of years.
Remember, Kirby has been running the company since the late 1991 when he bought it out from the previous owner and was working at GW long before that. The whole, run it into the ground to make a quick buck rings hollow in that sense. He could have cashed out a long time ago.
We'll see if the Facebook shutdown is permanent or simply, wait for the storm to pass and reopen.
True, but it doesn't mean he hasn't grown apathetic to what GW used to mean and only sees it now as a device to bring in money.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Still haven't seen any discussion making this news or a rumor. either people didn't know there was a GW Facebook page or they didn't care.
silent25 wrote: Remember, Kirby has been running the company since the late 1991 when he bought it out from the previous owner and was working at GW long before that. The whole, run it into the ground to make a quick buck rings hollow in that sense. He could have cashed out a long time ago. .
I don't go in for reading tea leaves about GW, a company with IP I adore and business practices I abhor. The recent legal fiascoes should but probably won't cause GW to have a moment of clarity and improve. Generally, I stick to rolling my eyes at the newesthottestarmyomgmustbuybuybuy that GW trends towards these days as well as the almost hilariously inept use of social media the company has had for the last 10-odd years.
I'm happy just accumulating my Guard and Orks second hand like I have been for 15-ish years now.
I don't go in for whiteknighting or blackknighting GW, I think that it generally adds heat but no light to 40k discussions and the Internet is already a nasty enough place.
That having been said, in 1991 Kirby was 22 years younger than he is today. A middle aged businessman has strikingly different incentives than a near-retirement one has.
Ouze wrote: No matter how many times you express your opinion in this thread that you personally feel is not newsworthy, clearly many other people disagree with you, and I suggest you simply find another thread to read, instead of repeatedly sipping the sour milk and informing everyone in earshot "this milk's gone bad" over and over again.
But what would Solo do if he couldn't do that? He'd almost literally have nothing else to post! Don't take his bread and butter away from him.
Don't worry, he just copy-pastes the same comment in every thread of this nature - I'm sure its possible to set up something automatic from Outlook Express, will have to check out the help file
I suspect GW may be willingly trying to isolate themselves from negative feedback. Now that its up to their one-man stores to take criticism (and they'll never tell corporate out of fear), GW execs will no longer be exposed to criticism as long as they stay off the internet
But why would we want to interact with the local hobby centers when the GW store staff is being actively discouraged from making the stores places to interact?
Abit off topic. But the other day a GW employee told me that they were "a store 1st, not a hang out".
That's everything you need to know in a nutshell I guess.
Dear god they are just so... incredibly inept at the internet. It's difficult to understand just how BAD they are at it. So they get a bit of criticism on the BBC and elsewhere but follow their usual policy of never talking to the media and then when things go a bit sour on their Facebook page they pull it. Much like they pulled their own forums when those had too much negativity. GW bosses seem to think the way to tackle criticism is to remove the means by which to complain, as though the rest of the online world doesn't exist for it to fester in. All they do is take away the criticism they can see.
I really can't believe how in the stone age they seem to operate regarding the internet. It's long been a bit of a joke that they don't 'get the internet' and think it's a 'passing fad' but their actions time and again are just embarrassing. They just haven't got a handle on it at all and everything from the moment their legal team got Amazon to take a book down because it used the words 'space marine' has been a bit of a fiasco as they didn't attempt to control the fallout when it hit various news media and they bungled it so badly on their Facebook page they didn't know what to do other than can it.
Not that the loss of a corporate Facebook page is going to affect their sales much, but it's just sadly indicative of how hopeless they are at managing themselves online and with the media, and how quickly they run scared. How many other companies take down their pages after such mild criticism? Most companies would weather a storm of criticism before reacting in such a way.
Seems kind of silly that they would close down their Facebook page for the sole reason of pushing people to their retail stores, which they are in turn closing or removing the play areas. Ask any current marketing person in the industry right now (any industry) what the best tool for reaching not only current, but new customers is, and they will all tell you social media. Those company pages do cost money, but no where near enough to make a noticeable impact on a budget, so cost I doubt, was the issue.
If it was because of the whole copyright deal, then its just more bad PR for GW.
For approximately 2 to 3 years GW has been creating Facebook pages for each of its individual stores and then having them post something at least once per day to try and draw people in. All of the GW stores in my area have had Facebook pages during this time. Today GW is promoting this fact on the front page of their main website at this link: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=28000015a I haven't tested settings outside the US and Canada, but when one views that page on the US GW website it lists all the store Facebook pages for North America. It's a fairly long list.
Facebook and your local Hobby Center
Your local Hobby Centre is now on Facebook! Facebook is a fantastic way to stay in touch with your friends and family and keep abreast of all the things they're doing. It's also a fantastic way to keep up to date with what your favourite movie stars, rock bands and various celebrities around the world are getting up to, and now you can use Facebook keep track of all the events and activities going on at your local Games Workshop Hobby Center!
We have created a unique Facebook page for each and every Games Workshop store and have passed the reins over the store manager who is, even now, adding all the very latest news about their exciting events and hobby activities.
You'll be able to read about everything happening in-store including details about up-coming events, as well as dates and times for regular events such as Sunday Beginners and Gaming Club Nights.
Not only that, but you can also view loads of image galleries of miniatures painted by you guys and the staff at your local store. In fact, if you ask your store manager really nicely, you might even be able to get your works of art on display for the world to see!
So, to find out what's going on near you at any time, simply search for your local Games Workshop Hobby Center on www.Facebook.com Name Telephone City Games Workshop - 8th Street - Greenwich Village 212-982-6314 New York Games Workshop - Alamo 925-314-0481 Alamo Games Workshop - Bayshore 613-721-9604 Nepean Games Workshop - Blue Diamond Crossing 702-432-3008 Las Vegas Games Workshop - Blue Ridge Crossing 816-313-6492 Kansas City Games Workshop - Bowie Bunker 301-464-4651 Bowie Games Workshop - Buena Vista 626-303-1199 Duarte Games Workshop - Capella Center II 614-846-2270 Columbus Games Workshop - Central Avenue 818-241-0068 Glendale Games Workshop - Chesterfield Crossing 636-536-6937 Chesterfield Games Workshop - Chicago Bunker 630-426-0120 Downers Grove Games Workshop - Chinook Centre 403-319-0064 Calgary Games Workshop - City Walk 404-256-6439 Sandy Springs Games Workshop - Coles Crossing 281-256-9266 Cyrpress Games Workshop - Columbia Palace 410-772-3988 Columbia Games Workshop - Cool Springs Village 615-778-3280 Franklin Games Workshop - Copperwood 281-858-0085 Houston Games Workshop - Cottman Avenue 215-722-6187 Philadelphia Games Workshop - Deer Grove 847-963-1434 Palatine Games Workshop - Deerwood Village 904-565-9241 Jacksonville Games Workshop - Denton Town Crossing (940) 484-5400 Denton Games Workshop - Durham Centre 289-372-3042 Ajax Games Workshop - Eastport Plaza (503) 788-7643 Portland Games Workshop - Empire Shopping Center 925-706-7310 Antioch Games Workshop - Entrada De Oro 520-742-7320 Oro Valley Games Workshop - Fair Oaks 703-218-1881 Fairfax Games Workshop - Farmington Centre (901) 754-6194 Germantown Games Workshop - Forest Park 803-790-6582 Columbia Games Workshop - Forest Plaza 815-397-0234 Rockford Games Workshop - Fountain Place 1-800-394-4263 Eden Prairie Games Workshop - Freeway V 425-775-0107 Lynnwood Games Workshop - Geneva Commons 630-232-2929 Geneva Games Workshop - Gig Harbor 253-858-2477 Gig Harbor Games Workshop - Governors Square 302-832-1229 Bear Games Workshop - Grapevine Mills 972-691-3744 Grapevine Games Workshop - Halifax 902-442-0297 Halifax Games Workshop - Hampton Village 248-844-2627 Rochester Hills Games Workshop - Highgate Village 604-629-1064 Burnaby Games Workshop - Hill Country Plaza 210-764-2200 San Antonio Games Workshop - Hilltop East Shopping Center (757) 962-5259 Virginia Beach Games Workshop - Hyde Park Plaza 513-321-1104 Cincinnati Games Workshop - Kent Station 253-850-6062 Kent Games Workshop - Kingsway 780-474-7166 Edmonton Games Workshop - Lake Crest Village 916-392-1495 Sacramento Games Workshop - Lake Shore 410-255-0596 Pasadena Games Workshop - Langstaff Square 905-850-0935 Vaughan Games Workshop - Larwin Square 714-731-3304 Tustin Games Workshop - Layton Plaza 414-325-2990 Greenfield Games Workshop - Los Angeles Bunker 714-892-2973 Westminster Games Workshop - Man O War 859-266-0245 Lexington Games Workshop - Market at Town Center 281-240-0825 Sugar Land Games Workshop - Montreal EC 514-844-3622 Montreal Games Workshop - Morningside Plaza 714-255-9801 Fullerton Games Workshop - Naperville 630-416-2131 Naperville Games Workshop - Oakbrook Plaza 805-492-8800 Thousand Oaks Games Workshop - Oak Park 708-660-0095 Oak Park Games Workshop - Oakridge Mall 408-227-0025 San Jose Games Workshop - Olney Village 301-774-3361 Olney Games Workshop - Orland Square 708-226-9563 Orland Park Games Workshop - Park Plaza 310-547-3400 San Pedro Games Workshop - Pinecrest Pointe 919-848-2958 Raleigh Games Workshop - Portola Plaza 949-457-1664 Mission Viejo Games Workshop - Prairie Ridge 262-697-0471 Pleasant Prairie Games Workshop - Preston Ridge 214-618-9788 Frisco Games Workshop - Quail Spring Village 405-286-0033 Oklahoma City Games Workshop - Red Top Plaza 847-573-1547 Libertyville Games Workshop - Renaissance Centre 407-830-0101 Altamonte Springs Games Workshop - Riverchase Promenade 205-403-2750 Birmingham Games Workshop - River Pointe 847-658-2943 Algonquin Games Workshop - Royal Oaks 281-556-5542 Houston Games Workshop - Scottsdale Towne Center 480-767-2078 Scottsdale Games Workshop - Seattle Bunker 425-562-2300 Bellevue Games Workshop - Silas Creek Crossing 336-765-5476 Winston - Salem Games Workshop - Square One 905-281-8695 Mississaga Games Workshop - Square One Denver 303-759-5400 Glendale Games Workshop - St. Thomas 410-998-9223 Owings Mills Games Workshop - Stoneridge Mall 925-463-1481 Pleasanton Games Workshop - Sugarland Crossing 703-421-5560 Sterling Games Workshop - Sunrise Village 253-848-5670 Puyallup Games Workshop - Supermall 253-288-7630 Auburn Games Workshop - Tacoma Place 253-471-5359 Tacoma Games Workshop - The Avenue at White Marsh 410-933-2008 White Marsh Games Workshop - The Gateway at Sawgrass 954-846-9415 Sunrise Games Workshop - Tomball Crossing 281-251-0031 Houston Games Workshop - Tower Center 703-569-1781 Springfield Games Workshop - Union Landing 510-429-1759 Union City Games Workshop - Ventura Village 805-339-9580 Ventura Games Workshop - Victoria 250-361-1499 Victoria Games Workshop - Village Center 281-347-0400 Katy Games Workshop - West Edmonton 780-486-3332 Edmonton Games Workshop - Westminster Center 1-800-394-4263 Westminster Games Workshop - White Oaks Mall 519-668-3713 London Games Workshop - Willow Lake East 317-228-9578 Indianapolis Games Workshop - Winnipeg 204-254-4864 Winnipeg Games Workshop - Woodfield 847-330-1187 Schaumburg Games Workshop - World of Battle 901-541-7700 Memphis Games Workshop - Yonge and Lawrence 647-428-7122 Toronto
storm to pass and reopen.
