And not bad at all for those that play 2000 points*. It is also nice to see armies with a bit of everything rather than the same 2/3 units spammed again and again.
*Which is, of course, dependent upon the Mechanicus Detachment being one of everything like the Skitarii.
Cheers for the english rules pretre- bit annoying that the Electro priests only come in 5s for their box set since I imagine them to be frothing mechanicum loony rabble sorts.
Love that Magos Dominus model though. He oozes mechanicum
angelofvengeance wrote: Cheers for the english rules pretre- bit annoying that the Electro priests only come in 5s for their box set since I imagine them to be frothing mechanicum loony rabble sorts.
Love that Magos Dominus model though. He oozes mechanicum
18 points for a guardsmen stat line. Ah gee. I was looking forward to these guys. But rules wise they are looking like the 1st true dud unit of all these ad mec units.
Bought a lot of Tempestus heads (helmets) for my Skitarii (I use the hooded heads for other conversions, mostly priests and minions). Looking at the Electro-priests I think I could use the Vanguard heads too.
angelofvengeance wrote: Cheers for the english rules pretre- bit annoying that the Electro priests only come in 5s for their box set since I imagine them to be frothing mechanicum loony rabble sorts.
The only reason we know to take them is if you want to fill out a formation with a tax. 5 is all you would ever want.
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Lockark wrote: 18 points for a guardsmen stat line. Ah gee. I was looking forward to these guys. But rules wise they are looking like the 1st true dud unit of all these ad mec units.
mega dud. Im wondering if they are mandrake bad.
Which got me thinking, actually they are somewhat similar. Both are T3 with a 5++. Both are overcosted. The assault version is an assault unit without grenades. The shooty version has a str4 assault 2 weapon.
Well at least the priests have FNP so 5++/5+++ which, while not competitive, is at least usable since they do rock hard in CC. Getting them there though, well I'll leave that to better players to figure out.
buddha wrote: Well at least the priests have FNP so 5++/5+++ which, while not competitive, is at least usable since they do rock hard in CC. Getting them there though, well I'll leave that to better players to figure out.
they rock hard AFTER the have killed another unit. 5++ and then 5+ FNP on T3 isn't much. You would probably rather have a 3+ save. Then they have 2 attacks and a power maul. Not exactly the most exciting thing in the game
buddha wrote: Well at least the priests have FNP so 5++/5+++ which, while not competitive, is at least usable since they do rock hard in CC. Getting them there though, well I'll leave that to better players to figure out.
Lesser Daemons have 5++ and better special rules but are 9 points a pop. You can even give the Nurgle ones FNP with a character.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yikes. The Electro-Priests are worse than I thought.
And nice that the Magus has a hood option as well. Does he have a weapon option, though, or is hood/pope-hat his only option?
If it is just hood/Pope hat, at least they got their priorities right
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue... That said, the Volkite blaster looks far more useful than the ray, plus it's Volkite, which is nifty.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yikes. The Electro-Priests are worse than I thought.
And nice that the Magus has a hood option as well. Does he have a weapon option, though, or is hood/pope-hat his only option?
If it is just hood/Pope hat, at least they got their priorities right
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue...
It's not that strange, very few clampacks have options and those that do it's usually just head swaps.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yikes. The Electro-Priests are worse than I thought.
And nice that the Magus has a hood option as well. Does he have a weapon option, though, or is hood/pope-hat his only option?
If it is just hood/Pope hat, at least they got their priorities right
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue...
It's not that strange, very few clampacks have options and those that do it's usually just head swaps.
I would not be surprised, though, if they did include the options.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yikes. The Electro-Priests are worse than I thought.
And nice that the Magus has a hood option as well. Does he have a weapon option, though, or is hood/pope-hat his only option?
If it is just hood/Pope hat, at least they got their priorities right
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue...
It's not that strange, very few clampacks have options and those that do it's usually just head swaps.
I'd argue this is a bit different though. In most other cases all it takes is a simple kit-bash. If you want to give that Chaos champion a power fist, you take a leftover power fist from another kit and stick it on him. In this case, there is no other way of obtaining an eradication ray, so the only other way to give the dominus one would be by converting one, which GW doesn't really approve of after the Chapterhouse debacle....
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yikes. The Electro-Priests are worse than I thought.
And nice that the Magus has a hood option as well. Does he have a weapon option, though, or is hood/pope-hat his only option?
If it is just hood/Pope hat, at least they got their priorities right
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue... That said, the Volkite blaster looks far more useful than the ray, plus it's Volkite, which is nifty.
I would imagine they'll have the option for Eradication Ray or Volkite and the various pistol options as well since they wouldn't be very intrusive bits to have.
So I am waiting to see what the canticles do before passing judgement on the electro priests or any of the units. Like for skitarii their army wide rule made a huge difference to their effectiveness. We will have to wait and see, same with relics. Although I will admit they seem ridiculous,y priced
Leth wrote: So I am waiting to see what the canticles do before passing judgement on the electro priests or any of the units. Like for skitarii their army wide rule made a huge difference to their effectiveness. We will have to wait and see, same with relics. Although I will admit they seem ridiculous,y priced
Before passing a final judgement, sure. But we can have a ~80% clear look at the models as of right now, and they don't look particularly nice. I was ready to throw my money down on an Ad Mech codex before, but once again I forgot how uninspired Games Workshop can be when it comes to model design. That said, those guys don't look particularly bad or anything, they just don't have any wow factor like a lot of their other models have. But who knows, maybe that extra 20% of resolution will make the difference and we'll really see what they were going for with the official HQ uploads.
EDIT: Before I come across as too cynical, the Skitarii, servitors, and the Magos model all have the wow factor and keep making me reconsider starting Ad Mech.
Leth wrote: So I am waiting to see what the canticles do before passing judgement on the electro priests or any of the units. Like for skitarii their army wide rule made a huge difference to their effectiveness. We will have to wait and see, same with relics. Although I will admit they seem ridiculous,y priced
Before passing a final judgement, sure. But we can have a ~80% clear look at the models as of right now, and they don't look particularly nice. I was ready to throw my money down on an Ad Mech codex before, but once again I forgot how uninspired Games Workshop can be when it comes to model design. That said, those guys don't look particularly bad or anything, they just don't have any wow factor like a lot of their other models have. But who knows, maybe that extra 20% of resolution will make the difference and we'll really see what they were going for with the official HQ uploads.
EDIT: Before I come across as too cynical, the Skitarii, servitors, and the Magos model all have the wow factor and keep making me reconsider starting Ad Mech.
Not at all man, I totally agree. A lot of the paint jobs are a turn off for me as well. However one of the things I have learned from watching GW over the years, most of the paint jobs are not picked and designed for looking the best, they are designed to highlight the detail and different aspects of the plastic models.
So for example he electro priests, they would look way better in my opinion with a dark skin shade with those lightning veins. However to get the detail to show up in the pictures they need all of those contrasting colors. Number of times people have seen something in the pictures, hated it and hen seen it in person and with a different paint job is enough for me with old judgement
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It occurs to me now that after 2 (!!) Adeptus Mech books I still have no use for my dozen or Necromunda pitslaves. This makes me sad because they are some really good models.
As it should. I think they're begging to be added to some inquisitor's retinue.
Do you guys see any role for the electro priests? I love the look, but am not excited about the stats. Is there some clever way of utilizing them that I'm not thinking of?
Hive City Dweller wrote: Do you guys see any role for the electro priests? I love the look, but am not excited about the stats. Is there some clever way of utilizing them that I'm not thinking of?
Cheap source of zealot for other armies, objective holders,
I think it is down to what the canticles can do as well as what the full picture of the codex will be. I mean instant death is no joke. In close combat an equal number of points of priests will absolutely destroy a wraithknight(remember ID bypasses fnp).
I think one of he other things to consider is that I know for myself that people approach assault as if it does not happen, however I actual build my lists to be primarily assault just for this reason. No one is prepared for it, their lists can't handle it and they hide. Sure they might kill it over two or three turns before you get there, but they are now hiding and cowering, you are controlling their movement phase and they are not scoring objectives.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It occurs to me now that after 2 (!!) Adeptus Mech books I still have no use for my dozen or Necromunda pitslaves. This makes me sad because they are some really good models.
As it should. I think they're begging to be added to some inquisitor's retinue.
Yeah but there'[s no good fit, maybe acolytes with power fists and pistols but that's a lousy combo.
Maybe next year when they roll out the 3rd AM codex there will be a place for them.
I do want to try the formation of them. It should make them somewhat potent in assault. Their gauntlets with both hatred, twin-linked and reroll to wound puts them similarly to a Tesla Carbine.
Curious how well theyd synergize with Canticles and the other melee components of the army.
Although the cost of entry for the formation is pretty high, at 360 points base, so Id only likely try it in a larger game.
I presume the kit'll have the option for the Eradication Ray and the phosphor serpenta? It would be strange if GW didn't include the options on the sprue... That said, the Volkite blaster looks far more useful than the ray, plus it's Volkite, which is nifty.
Isn't the Phosphor Serpenta pictured here? The other pistol type weapon can be seen on the white robed Magos. No sign of the Eradication Ray yet.
Umm... 18 points a model. There's nothing cheap about them.
90 points with 4 ablative wounds to get zealot for a bunch of characters is not bad.
If that is your goal it is a pretty cheap way to add it in. Not saying it is GOOD, just saying it is a way if you dont want to run other sources, or are limited to two.
But I look at it from the perspective of a guy who assaults lol, very different.
BrookM wrote: Late to the party, but did I just see that the Techpriest Dominus is €29 for a gakky clamp pack blister?
Yes but look his size : it's just 8 euros more than a silly Harlequeen for twice much plastic ^^ yes it's overpriced, but so cool. One of the best plastic mini i saw...
BrookM wrote: Late to the party, but did I just see that the Techpriest Dominus is €29 for a gakky clamp pack blister?
Yes but look his size : it's just 8 euros more than a silly Harlequeen for twice much plastic ^^ yes it's overpriced, but so cool. One of the best plastic mini i saw...
Also it's a pretty darn cool model with FW-level of detail, IMHO.
If they give it all the alternate options and a few extra bits in the pack then it'll be OK as far as GW prices go for me, if it is just as you see it then I'm going to be unhappy.
Its on a 50mm base. Probably 2 sprues just like the Jetseer. It has 2 head options and looks like 2 pistol options at least. I plan to grab 1 at first, and a second eventually to build both versions. Then I have a trio of FW Myrmadon Secutors sho are about perfect size and look to make up to 3 more Dominii.
Canticles
Ok, they are an army wide special rule that gives a lot of flexibility each round to your CM army. Units with the rule gain benefits according the number of units with the rule on the table and are stronger the more units you have. There are 6 canticles and each one can only be used once per game. Benefits include cover bonus's, bonus's to strength, re-rolling failed attacks from either close combat or shooting, fearless, or creating extra hits in close combat. 8 units gives the strongest bonus 4-7 a medium bonus, and 1-3 a standard bonus.
Electro priests with bonus str, fearless, rerolls and extra hits sounds interesting, this is of course entirely dependent on what the proper canticles rules are rather then the above tidbit.
I dont mind the look of the model but so far the rules haven't impressed but again it depends on what canticles turns out to actually be, from the way i read the above canticles might be like the skitarii doctrines in terms of play style with different effects.
Translation: Incantation of the Iron Soul grants an army wide buff for every unit with the special rule "Canticles of Omnissiah":
1-3 - Friendly units with the special rule are Relentless
4-7 - Friendly units with the special rule are Relentless and have to repeat all failed morale, fear and pin down tests
8+ - Friendly units with the special rule are Fearless
Most likely go for £20 and an easy sale, they can simply knock up a 1000 sets for each release and you know they would sell to people who where never going to splurge for the full ltd ed but makes it a good add on sale to a regular codex.
Ehhhh, I just bought a set of Kastellans today and one thing that annoys me is that the Datasmith comes on a weird 32mm base, which means I'll have to buy some for the additional datasmiths I'm converting... I am considering buying the FW Scyllax (for conversion purposes) and they seem to have those bases...
Translation: Incantation of the Iron Soul grants an army wide buff for every unit with the special rule "Canticles of Omnissiah":
1-3 - Friendly units with the special rule are Relentless
4-7 - Friendly units with the special rule are Relentless and have to repeat all failed morale, fear and pin down tests
8+ - Friendly units with the special rule are Fearless
I'm work blocked - Is this a rumor or pics of the rule?
Don't most of our units have relentless already or don't need them?? Seems pretty meh of a army wide rule unless I have a lot of units for fearless/rerolls.
Edit: Sorry I might of misunderstood this, is an addition to whatever Canticles does?
From Faeit, so salt, but I think this is more likely than Relentless given that it's entirely useless on every model in the army:
Canticles
Ok, they are an army wide special rule that gives a lot of flexibility each round to your CM army. Units with the rule gain benefits according the number of units with the rule on the table and are stronger the more units you have. There are 6 canticles and each one can only be used once per game. Benefits include cover bonus's, bonus's to strength, re-rolling failed attacks from either close combat or shooting, fearless, or creating extra hits in close combat. 8 units gives the strongest bonus 4-7 a medium bonus, and 1-3 a standard bonus.
and information from a reader who sent in some information.
via a reader on Faeit 212
The new WD shows off some of the Canticles of the Omnissiah.
Incantation of the Iron Skull
1-3 units
Friendly units with Canticles gain Stubborn.
4-7 units
Friendly units with Canticles gain Stubborn and re-roll all failed Morale, Fear and Pinning.
8+ units
Friendly units with Canticles gain Fearless.
The blurred picture almost shows all 6. Aside from the skull one the others I could read say:
Chant of Remorseless Fist
1-3 Units
Friendly units with Canticles can re-roll failed to hits of 1 in close combat.
4-7 Units
Friendly units with Canticles can re-roll failed to hits of 1 and 2 in close combat.
8+ Units
Friendly units with Canticles can re-roll failed to hits in close combat.
Invocation of Machine-Might
1-3 Units
Friendly units with Canticles add +1 to their Strength.
4-7 Units
Friendly units with Canticles add +2 to their Strength.
8+ Units
Friendly units with Canticles add +3 to their Strength.
The last 3 I can only read the 1-3 section.
Shroudplasm
1-3 Units
Units
Friendly units with Canticles get Stealth
Benediction of Omniscience
1-3 Units
Friendly units with Canticles re-roll failed to hits of 1 when shooting
This one probably mirrors the Remorseless Fist. Canticle.
Litany of Electromancer
1-3 Units
Is illegible in the photo but seems to cause a Strength 4 AP - hit to enemy units within X inches of a model with Canticles.
Stubborn, while not fantastic (Robots have Fearless, Electro-Priests have Zealot) is a far sight more worthwhile than Relentless.
Remorseless Fist boosts Electro-Priests and melee Robots, so it's not terrible.
Invocation of Machine Might is.... alright. Boosts Electro-Priests for sure, but nothing overly special.
If Shroudplasm boosts to Shrouding at higher unit counts, then hell yeah.
Benediction is amazing, makes BS4 much less bad for at least one turn.
Electromancer needs to be cleared up but sounds kinda meh.
Now, my wondering is if multiple can be used in the same turn? If I could give Electropriests +3 to Strength and reroll hits in Assault and maybe zap nearby enemies, that could be quite good. But if it's just one per turn, then it's still good, but then Electro-Priests go back to being bad.
Makes MSU very, very good. Lots of min units of Robots and Kataphrons for sure.
The more I think about that formation with the one of everything the less I want to run it. You have super small units vulnerable to killpoint missions, one chicken walker isnt going to acomplish much, and I would rather skip the rust stalkers and both flavors of priests. Thats 395 points of what I would consider dead weight. And the +1 BS and ignores cover formation just seems so much better considering your not constricting every pick you have. All that wargear and relics for free is tempting, but really I dont use any of the relics for a reason, most of them are a points sink trap. Fluff wise the super formation is pretty awesome, but i dont see myself buying the priests just for that.
Orock wrote: The more I think about that formation with the one of everything the less I want to run it. You have super small units vulnerable to killpoint missions, one chicken walker isnt going to acomplish much, and I would rather skip the rust stalkers and both flavors of priests. Thats 395 points of what I would consider dead weight. And the +1 BS and ignores cover formation just seems so much better considering your not constricting every pick you have. All that wargear and relics for free is tempting, but really I dont use any of the relics for a reason, most of them are a points sink trap. Fluff wise the super formation is pretty awesome, but i dont see myself buying the priests just for that.
Running 1 of everything in the Cult Detatchment is still an unknown and unconfirmed.
Will the Dominus be considered as another "Unit with Canticles of the Omnissiah" for purposes of unit count you think? Like, if you have 3 units of Robots, 4 units of Kataphrons, and a Dominus attached to one of the Troops, is that 7 or 8 units with the rule?
RedFox wrote: Canticles of the Omnissiah rules are pretty awesome after all, lot of potential synergy when combined with the skitarii (in the big formation)
The formation gives all the units in it the Canticles rule also, so the Knight and the Skitarii get it also is all I can think. Here big knight, reroll your misses with your heavy 12 gun. Oh, and Skittarii get it too, just some icing.
Maybe we'll see something in the next few days, but the codex itself should start leaking around Tuesday or Wednesday next week, including the Formations/Detachments.
Maybe we'll see something in the next few days, but the codex itself should start leaking around Tuesday or Wednesday next week, including the Formations/Detachments.
Aren't the WD leaks from this sunday's WD? I'd expect 'dex leaks much earlier than Tues/Wed.
Maybe we'll see something in the next few days, but the codex itself should start leaking around Tuesday or Wednesday next week, including the Formations/Detachments.
Aren't the WD leaks from this sunday's WD? I'd expect 'dex leaks much earlier than Tues/Wed.
They're from the upcoming WD, which means preorders won't be available until Saturday. Books should get into stores sometime early next week depending on delivery days.
Can the new cult mechanics leader be attached to the kastellan robots? He would be able to stick the datasmith out front for a 2+ and when he dies the robots are still majority toughness 7.
Orock wrote: Can the new cult mechanics leader be attached to the kastellan robots? He would be able to stick the datasmith out front for a 2+ and when he dies the robots are still majority toughness 7.
ICs cant join units with Monsterous Creatures.
Datasmith seems to be an exception
Putting him with Kataphrons with majority toughness 5 isnt too bad though, and they're 2 wounds each and he can keep healing them up
Orock wrote: Can the new cult mechanics leader be attached to the kastellan robots? He would be able to stick the datasmith out front for a 2+ and when he dies the robots are still majority toughness 7.
There is a formation that allows this. The only thing I'm not sure about is if he/it replaces the datasmith or not.
Someone with a warseer account ask what the battle detatchment is in the formation
The +1 BS and ignore cover formation was confirmed, but appears to have a caveat to it
There are 4 formations:
- Cohort Cybernetica
1x Dominus
2 Kastelan Robot Maniples
Kastelan protocols have an inmediate effect when chosen
For every Datasmith and Dominus one Robot may fire to a different target.
Dominus and the 2 maniples are a single unit. Dominus may not abandon the unit.
- Elimination Maniple
2-3 unitos of Kataphron Destroyers
1-3 Kastelan Robot Maniples
If one Robot inflincts one unsaved wound or a penetrating hit with a weapon with the Luminogen SR, the rest of the formation gains +1BS and ignore cover when firing to that unit.
- Numinous Maniple
2-3 units of Fulgurite Electro-Priests
2-3 units of Corpuscarii Electo-Priests
If a Corpuscarii unit is at 6" or less of 1 or more Fulgurite unit, they gain +1 shot when firing. If one unit suffers one or more unsaved wounds, it is considered "electrified" until the end of turn.
If a Fulgurite units attacks in CC to an "electrified" unit, they reroll to wound
- Holy Requisitioner
1 Dominus
2-3 Kataphron Breachers
Deep Strike
They have to stay in Reserve. When deployed, the Dom¡nus does not scatter if deployed at 6" or less of an objective marker. Breachers do not scatter as long as they arrive at 6" or less of the Dominus.
They have the Zealot and Counterattack SR when at 6" or less from a objective marker.
The Elimination Maniple makes a lot more sense then just a straight +1 BS and Ignore Cover. It is not as broke as I expected, but still a really solid choice.
- Cohort Cybernetica
1x Dominus
2 Kastelan Robot Maniples
Kastelan protocols have an inmediate effect when chosen
For every Datasmith and Dominus one Robot may fire to a different target.
Dominus and the 2 maniples are a single unit. Dominus may not abandon the unit.
Hm...
Dominus
2x Kastelan Robot Maniples with 4x Robots and 2x Datasmiths each
Mashed into one giant unit of 8 Robots and 4 Datasmiths with a Dominus; meaning five of the eight robots can fire at different targets...if I'm reading this right.
- Cohort Cybernetica
1x Dominus
2 Kastelan Robot Maniples
Kastelan protocols have an inmediate effect when chosen
For every Datasmith and Dominus one Robot may fire to a different target.
Dominus and the 2 maniples are a single unit. Dominus may not abandon the unit.
Hm...
Dominus
2x Kastelan Robot Maniples with 4x Robots and 2x Datasmiths each
Mashed into one giant unit of 8 Robots and 4 Datasmiths with a Dominus; meaning five of the eight robots can fire at different targets...if I'm reading this right.
Yea you have 4 datasmiths total and one dominus, so 5 bots
Minimum maniple is 2x bots and a datasmith. Minimum formation is thus 4x bots, 2x smiths, 1x Dominus for (effectively) a 4x Robot split-fire (Dominus / Datasmiths / 1x Robot fire at one target, 3x Robots fire at 3x other targets).
Expensive formation, but with so many T7 multi wound bodies with smiths/priests to tank with 2+ armor and the IWND relic and the Dominus restoring wounds
Thats one tough unit
If those are the only formations though, then the Battle Congregation Detatchment may very well be 1 hq and 2 troops
And in that case the WD formation is 1330 minimum using the tech priest and 2 units of breachers.
Very doable with plenty of points to max out squads with bodies or use Destroyers
WrentheFaceless wrote: Expensive formation, but with so many T7 multi wound bodies with smiths/priests to tank with 2+ armor and the IWND relic and the Dominus restoring wounds
Thats one tough unit
If those are the only formations though, then the Battle Congregation Detatchment may very well be 1 hq and 2 troops
And in that case the WD formation is 1330 minimum using the tech priest and 2 units of breachers.
Very doable with plenty of points to max out squads with bodies or use Destroyers
i hope that is wrong, or else its going to be a no brainer like decursion. Ironically I think the only time I would use it is against said formation. It just feels way to cheap.
So, the Elimination Maniple is not nearly as scary as first rumored. Not too surprised, sounded too good to be true at first. Still not bad though.
The electropriest formatin makes them somewhat more usuable but they still seem too squishy (and expensive) to be worthwhile.
The Holy Requisitioner formation looks like it'll be very useful in objective missions and not much else. A bit too situational for TAC lists.
Though I'm not sure how useful it'll be, the Cybernetica Cohort looks FUN. Combined with relics (note that datasmiths can carry them), this could be the Deathstar to end all Deathstars...
I don't think its that had a deathstar. Most will run the guns on the robots. So the datasmiths will be the only source of str 8+ without using smash. One knight could charge in and kill the whole thing. Against a stompa similar results. Heck a unit of kills kans could do well at less than a third the cost. Thunderhammer termies and dreadknights would do good as well. Or a corpseclaw thief formation from dark eldar could drown them in poison. Not worth the 760 points you would spend for the formation, even with iwnd and the dominus to fix wounds.'
Orock wrote: I don't think its that had a deathstar. Most will run the guns on the robots. So the datasmiths will be the only source of str 8+ without using smash. One knight could charge in and kill the whole thing. Against a stompa similar results. Heck a unit of kills kans could do well at less than a third the cost. Thunderhammer termies and dreadknights would do good as well. Or a corpseclaw thief formation from dark eldar could drown them in poison. Not worth the 760 points you would spend for the formation, even with iwnd and the dominus to fix wounds.'
A fine idea until they use Canticles of the Omnissiah for +3 strength and beat the crap out of whatever charged them.
Orock wrote: I don't think its that had a deathstar. Most will run the guns on the robots. So the datasmiths will be the only source of str 8+ without using smash. One knight could charge in and kill the whole thing. Against a stompa similar results. Heck a unit of kills kans could do well at less than a third the cost. Thunderhammer termies and dreadknights would do good as well. Or a corpseclaw thief formation from dark eldar could drown them in poison. Not worth the 760 points you would spend for the formation, even with iwnd and the dominus to fix wounds.'
A fine idea until they use Canticles of the Omnissiah for +3 strength and beat the crap out of whatever charged them.
I will point out that requires 8+ units on the board.
So if I want an Elimination Maniple, is there anyway to bring a Dominus, or have I now gone unbound?
It sounds like the only way to bring a Dominus and an Elimination Maniple to a list, would be to bring the Dominus in a CAD (or one of the other formations he is in?), and the Elimination Maniple.
That means tomorrow I am buy him, four boxes of Kataphon, and the two Kastallen boxes I wanted. Ouch.
I really was hoping for essentially an Elimination Maniple + Dominus to add to my Skitarii/Blood Angels list.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So if I want an Elimination Maniple, is there anyway to bring a Dominus, or have I now gone unbound?
It sounds like the only way to bring a Dominus and an Elimination Maniple to a list, would be to bring the Dominus in a CAD (or one of the other formations he is in?), and the Elimination Maniple.
That means tomorrow I am buy him, four boxes of Kataphon, and the two Kastallen boxes I wanted. Ouch.
I really was hoping for essentially an Elimination Maniple + Dominus to add to my Skitarii/Blood Angels list.
Yeah, that's how Formations work. You only get what's inside of it. If you want something not in the Formation, you need to take it elsewhere or go Unbound.
If you're doing Skitarii/Blood Angels, you can just make it an Allied Detachment and only need the Dominus + 1 unit of Troops.
Still, that sucks... It means the minimum investment if I want a battle-forged list, is three units of Kataphon (one for the allied detachment), one/two Kastellan (for the Elimination Maniple), and my Dominus for the allied detachment.
Points-wise, it is a huge investment, and all because I REALLY want a Space Pope. :-p
Edit: Yikes. 920pts if you take the, essentially mandatory, shooty Kastellans... Though you will end up with a hell of a wall of shooting. Still, at 1500pts, it severely diminishes my hope of a take-all-comers list that also has Flesh Tearers for Pods, and loads of Skitarii Vanguard with Arc Rifles.
I can't believe they did not ask the guy about the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation !!! no instead someone ask the tech priest stats which have been leaked for days...
RedFox wrote: I can't believe they did not ask the guy about the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation !!! no instead someone ask the tech priest stats which have been leaked for days...
Thargrim wrote: pre orders are up on the New Zealand GW site if anyone wants to drool over the new stuff.
Well I know I'll be picking up a Metalica transfer sheet
Looks like the tech priest does come with the different gun options, one of the close ups has the conversion beamer instead of the volkite gun
Sprue is listed 2 gun arm options for each side
Wasn't the Skitarii sheet only 20$? whats up with the 6$ increase? They were expensive as it was.
But anyhow, I like having gun options. Question is which options will be ideal for the Dominus to use.
Well thats New Zealand dollars.
Volkite and the eradication ray are both good, Macrostubber and phosphor are both meh, I'd probably keep the macrostubber because its 5 shots. And probably switch off between volkite and the ray
The shriek shenanigans I was talking about were the multiple relics and formations that lower leadership to make them more effective. Can't do that to stubborn units.
Has the website spazzed - the front page is covered in Cult Mechanicus links and the new Magos/Electropriests etc - but they links are all 404 - Records Expunged?
FrothingMuppet wrote: Has the website spazzed - the front page is covered in Cult Mechanicus links and the new Magos/Electropriests etc - but they links are all 404 - Records Expunged?
Didn't you hear, GWs clamped down on leaks so much their website isn't allowed announces releases anymore.
Am I the only one that thinks the price tag attached to the Tech Priest Pre-Order ($62 AUD....) seems ridiculously high? Like a good 20 or so dollars more than I would have expected
I'm curious how the formations will work with Canticles. Do Canticles apply across Army-wide, or within each Detachment? i.e. Would it be possible to run the WD formation, and a Cohort Cybernetica formation in addition, and have both the detachment and the formation add to the same Canticles pool for counting units?
sm3g wrote: Am I the only one that thinks the price tag attached to the Tech Priest Pre-Order ($62 AUD....) seems ridiculously high? Like a good 20 or so dollars more than I would have expected
It's not cheap, but to be fair it includes all the options for the model and he's on a 50mm base so it's not small. By GW's standards, and certainly compared to the ridiculous £18 SM character clampacks, it's actually fairly reasonable(he repeats to himself, over and over, to self-justify spending such stupid amounts of money on tiny wee plastic men ).
Judging by the picture in White Dwarf Issue 69 for the Ad Mech War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation (feth me these names are a mouthful) is basically a "1 of everything" formation like the Skitarii Battle Maniple.
I was not sold on the electro priests, but having seen that video I quite like them...that may encourage me to try running a War Convocation.
I think the electro priests looks awesome, I just don't like the paint scheme. They'd look better as black dudes with purple electric veins....not enough people of color in the w40k universe
H.B.M.C. wrote: AUD$70 for the Electro-Priests? For 5 guys. 5 guys for the same price as the obviously overpriced Witch Elf box, which has 10 models.
Are you fething kidding me?
That's mental - in the UK they're £25 (still expensive but not shocking) while witch elves are £35 (overpriced, I agree). Electro-priest box is very, very not worth it for the equivalent of £35.
Loving the look of these AdMech models in person, seen a few armies fielded already and they look great. Just wish that GW could put out a fully plastic multi-part set for the sisters of battle, maybe that isn't so bloody expensive?
I was planning to buy the Dominus, but £22 is crazily expensive for one infantry model, even if it is a fancy HQ. The model is good, but not £22 good. A solo infantry model that costs as much as a tank.
This week I got a box of Perry foot knights - 38 multi-part plastic models, sculpts easily of GW quality - for £2 less than that. Before that I got the Contagion expansion for Deadzone - £30 for the book, four sprues of hard plastic terrain, a new deck of cards and 30 zombies (again, hard plastic, multi-part, high quality sculpts despite some repetition of poses or appearance)
It's disappointing; GW are releasing stuff I'd very much like to buy, but so are their competitors - and their competitors give me more for my money.
Fezman wrote: I was planning to buy the Dominus, but £22 is crazily expensive for one infantry model, even if it is a fancy HQ. The model is good, but not £22 good. A solo infantry model that costs as much as a tank.
This week I got a box of Perry foot knights - 38 multi-part plastic models, sculpts easily of GW quality - for £2 less than that. Before that I got the Contagion expansion for Deadzone - £30 for the book, four sprues of hard plastic terrain, a new deck of cards and 30 zombies (again, hard plastic, multi-part, high quality sculpts despite some repetition of poses or appearance)
It's disappointing; GW are releasing stuff I'd very much like to buy, but so are their competitors - and their competitors give me more for my money.
Everything you say is true, but two things to note; it's not actually £22, it's £16.50 because that's what the good discounters(Dark Sphere) are selling it at, and while the price is absurd in a general sense, relative to other GW pricing it's not actually a terrible deal - you're paying £4 more than the already overpriced SM clampacks certainly, but the model is on a 50mm base and includes all the weapon options.
Lockark wrote: Why dose the plastic hq costs as much as the forge world version.
Isn't the FW Dominus actually cheaper? (without shipping)
Yah it is. But since shipping is calculated by percent of purchase you might as well include it. The only way you don't pay it is by buying at a event or Warhammer world.
If it was two years ago when the CAD was stronger tho, it would of been cheaper even with shipping.
Placing this order is going to feel so weird. I still don't "see" Kataphron as troops, so ordering three boxes with my other stuff feels wrong somehow.
I really did just want enough of them and Kastelan to make up an Elimination Maniple, to shore up some tactical needs of my Skitarii, but FOC rules means I suddenly spend the vast majority of my points on them, instead. :-p
I REALLY want the combined AdMech book... this two source thing feels so contrived right now.
MetalOxide wrote: I'm tempted to build some Dark Mechanicus allies for my Chaos force now.
I personally plan to build some some Dark Mechanicus Cultists for my Iron Warriors army using a mix of Cultists and Skitarii left over bitz....might add some mechanized amrs & legs bitz from some 3rd party, any recommendation ?
MetalOxide wrote: I'm tempted to build some Dark Mechanicus allies for my Chaos force now.
I personally plan to build some some Dark Mechanicus Cultists for my Iron Warriors army using a mix of Cultists and Skitarii left over bitz....might add some mechanized amrs & legs bitz from some 3rd party, any recommendation ?
Lockark wrote: Why dose the plastic hq costs as much as the forge world version.
Isn't the FW Dominus actually cheaper? (without shipping)
Yah it is. But since shipping is calculated by percent of purchase you might as well include it. The only way you don't pay it is by buying at a event or Warhammer world.
If it was two years ago when the CAD was stronger tho, it would of been cheaper even with shipping.
Even with shipping it's only about one quid more than the clampack. And bear in mind you still need to pay shipping for the clampack. Although if you get your 40k from a 3rd party retailer at 20% off, the GW Dominus is actually cheaper. Hm. I might actually get both, and have one run as the Dominus for a Cohort Cybernetica and the other as my Warlord.
Ordered the metalica transfer sheet, just need my dominus next week and purchases will be complete, unless i buy another box of sicarians for the WD formation
Complaining about GW prices is like being a drug junky and trying to haggle with a street drug dealer.
I've payed $70 Canadian on Ebay for the FW event-only Autilon Skorr just because an airplane ticket to Chicago and back, staying in Hotel, food and local transportation would've cost me closer to a thousand.
I REALLY want the combined AdMech book... this two source thing feels so contrived right now.
That's because it IS contrived... It's nowhere in the actual Warhammer 40,000 rules. So...
It's really pissing me off because the only models I want out of the Skitarii book are the Vanguard and the Rangers. I don't particularly like the Sicarian variants and the vehicles seem too expensive for me (though I love the rules for the Onagers). I want to run Cult Mechanicus with lots of Skitarii Infantry on the table, but to do that I need two separate books, each of which I'm basically only using around half of. And that's really stupid imo.
I mean, I guess that's sort of the same as any other armies that you ally together (Daemons/CSM, Eldar/Dark Eldar, etc), but honestly the fact that it's basically forced to do so rather than a choice feels so crappy to me. I mean, I guess both codexes together ($66) are only slightly more than a standard codex ($50), but it's just so crappy. It's the only thing keeping me from going out and binge spending money on these guys right now.
I REALLY want the combined AdMech book... this two source thing feels so contrived right now.
That's because it IS contrived... It's nowhere in the actual Warhammer 40,000 rules. So...
It's really pissing me off because the only models I want out of the Skitarii book are the Vanguard and the Rangers. I don't particularly like the Sicarian variants and the vehicles seem too expensive for me (though I love the rules for the Onagers). I want to run Cult Mechanicus with lots of Skitarii Infantry on the table, but to do that I need two separate books, each of which I'm basically only using around half of. And that's really stupid imo.
I mean, I guess that's sort of the same as any other armies that you ally together (Daemons/CSM, Eldar/Dark Eldar, etc), but honestly the fact that it's basically forced to do so rather than a choice feels so crappy to me. I mean, I guess both codexes together ($66) are only slightly more than a standard codex ($50), but it's just so crappy. It's the only thing keeping me from going out and binge spending money on these guys right now.
On the plus side, you get tons of lore and artwork, which I'm totally not complaining about.
List building is still making me crabby, because I feel like the newly developing meta damn near begs for the Elimination Maniple, and its being so expensive to field in a battle-forged list, but I will say that on the flip-side, I keep seeing people on other forums writing it off now that we know it went from "broken too OP", to "very good" thanks to the targeting caveat.
Considering how common it will be to see an allied Auspex on the table, and how Canticles of the Omnissiah make the Kastelan's BS3 less irksome, I don't know how it isn't still one of the coolest things we've seen in a while.
Even in MSU Kastelan would be shooting 12-18 Phosphor shots (six TL), re-rolling 1s, 1s and 2s, or all shots, and wounding most scary bikes and such on 2's or 3's, AP3.
If you even do ONE wound from that, the rest of your formation is +1BS, STILL re-rolling 1s/2s/all misses (now moot), and is ignoring cover.
If that isn't enough to shift heavily entrenched, armored, etc... targets, I don't know what is.
And that just makes up a chunk (albeit a sizable one) of a shooty force capable of dropping more Haywire than anything in the game (especially when taking into account Skitarii), who likewise have basic troop guns that do shockingly well against MCs (thanks to Rad Carbines SR).
I'd still kill for access to basic transports for the Skitarii side of things, but all in all, if we take a wide view, and consider the likelihood of AdMech becoming a combined book in the future, I think this is an amazing faction with loads of cool toys and options.
Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!
spaztacus wrote: Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!
spaztacus wrote: Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!
It doesnt fit into 1000, comes to 1300 or so.
Did we get confirmation as to what the Cult Mechanicus detachment consists of?
spaztacus wrote: Just opened the White Dwarf and.....holy crap I want to run the triple detachment formation. Free upgrades (so 55 points for a 5 man Vanguard squad with 2 plsmas that don't get hot!!!!), canticles for everyone!!!! A knight that gets his carapace weapon for free!!!! Plus I can't even think about how much stuff I can cram on the tech priest since he can fire everything each turn. Man I can't wait for my order to come in. Plan on running a 1000 points of this (yeah, it fits....becuase of the free upgrades) for a team tourney next month!!!!
It doesnt fit into 1000, comes to 1300 or so.
Did we get confirmation as to what the Cult Mechanicus detachment consists of?
It's a 'Battle Congregation', which doesn't match any of the mentioned formations, so unless the rumormongers have been hiding stuff from us, I'm guessing it's the 2 troops + HQ detachment. I might be wrong though, so don't hold me on that. Just speculation.
If it really is one of everything the min points cost, with the meelee only knight is 1815 points. Probably not tourney viable even with boatloads of free gear seeing as you have tiny easily killed squads.
So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.
Nithoggr wrote: So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.
The Skitarii force needed is the Skitarii Battle Maniple, which is a formation (different from the normal Skitarii Maniple detachment)
the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has the word detachment in it, which leads us to believe it's not one of each, because that's not what a detachment is about, that's a kind of formation
Plus, all formations from the codex have been leaked already, we're only missing the specific Cult Mechanicus detachment...chances are it will be 1 HQ and 2 TROOPS but we don't know yet
Harriticus wrote: Diving 1 army into 2 incomplete codex's released weeks apart. This is ridiculous even for GW standards.
It makes me wonder if their plan all along is to just wait until everyone buys their own copies of whichever of the two they want, and then release Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus combining all of them. But maybe there's a quality in them being two armies that I'm not seeing. Truth be told, I still haven't seen many rules for them so they might be more powerful put together as 2 armies than they would as a single one. If so, I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Nithoggr wrote: So why would you be forced to take one of each Skitarii but now one of each CM?
I should be the same as Skitarii. For allies you take 1 HQ and 2 troops as a min.
I think this is the case of poor word on GW for putting detachment when it should have been something else.
I would still go by the picture and what makes sense from a GW perspective.
The Skitarii force needed is the Skitarii Battle Maniple, which is a formation (different from the normal Skitarii Maniple detachment)
the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has the word detachment in it, which leads us to believe it's not one of each, because that's not what a detachment is about, that's a kind of formation
Plus, all formations from the codex have been leaked already, we're only missing the specific Cult Mechanicus detachment...chances are it will be 1 HQ and 2 TROOPS but we don't know yet
Consensus is the same across other forums as well. It appears that GW's specific wording of "Detachment" implies it's not a "Formation".
Quarterdime wrote:
Harriticus wrote: Diving 1 army into 2 incomplete codex's released weeks apart. This is ridiculous even for GW standards.
It makes me wonder if their plan all along is to just wait until everyone buys their own copies of whichever of the two they want, and then release Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus combining all of them. But maybe there's a quality in them being two armies that I'm not seeing. Truth be told, I still haven't seen many rules for them so they might be more powerful put together as 2 armies than they would as a single one. If so, I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Frankly, I'm not upset about it. We get double the lore, the artwork, warlord traits, tactical objectives (if anyone plays those), and relics. Plus I doubt we'd have both the Canticles and the Doctrina rules if it were one 'dex, that might be too confusing for some players. I like how the two "half-dexes" makes it clear what units are Skitarii, and what units are not, because you had shenanigans in the past like Grey Knights getting psybolts on everything (If you read the lore, it's really just inquisitors that have such free access to psybolts).
Wow, it is tight but 1330 pts leaves just enough room to expand squads and perhaps get a detachment with a few transports. This might just be a good competitive army.
ansacs wrote: Wow, it is tight but 1330 pts leaves just enough room to expand squads and perhaps get a detachment with a few transports. This might just be a good competitive army.
Agreed. At 1500 you might be struggling a bit. At 1850 you hit the sweet spot, where you have 520 points to increase squad sizes or trade out your Knight Paladin for something like a Cerastus-chassis or a Crusader, but still get a crapton of upgrades for free over your enemies. At 2000 points I think you have enough to even get a second detachment for transports, but I'm inclined to think that 1850 is perfect for it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: Reroll warlord trait and reuse a canticle
So they get the reroll Warlord Trait ability.. twice? Once from the original detachment and once from the Formation? That's a little redundant...
Side note: Does anyone know how Canticles work across multiple detachments? Say I have a Battle Congregation, an Elimination thingie, and a Cohort Cybernetica. Do they count separately, and each use is separate, or do they count as one army still?
"The Machine Brotherhood of Mars:
All units in this formation have the Canticles of the Omnissiah special rule (see Codex Cult Mechanicus), even though they do not all have the Cult Mechanicus Faction".
What that means for individual Cult Mechanicus detatchments I have no idea.
I think the first step for me when adding to the bare minimum for the War Convocation is maxing out the Vanguard and Ranger Squads to 10 men with 3 special weapons, thereafter it is situational and depends what the meta in your gaming group is.
Ugh 1330 points is not alot. That means there is huge potential to break this open in an 1850 point game. I could fit both my extra dunecrawlers, 2 more squads of guys, and fill out some more chickenwalkers, THEN have stupid free gear.
Heck why not throw a culexus assassin and inquisitor coteaz in there, really get the cheddar goin.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.
Very good question, the data sheet in question does not specify anything about doctrina imperatives.
Do the skitarii units in the combined formation ALSO benefit from doctrina imperatives, or do they give those up to be part of this formation. I would assume the latter, or else that would be stupid broken.
Of course they do. As well as their own (sub-)formation bonus (scout and crusader?). And canticles for everyone, including the Knight and the Skitarii.
Probably need a spread-sheet or something to run this army to remember which rules apply to which units at any given round though
Christ on a bike, I thought I'd feel a bit dirty bringing the Cybernetica Cohort formation to pick-up games, but comparing it to the WD combo formation is like comparing flavourless processed American cheese slices to ripe Camembert.
See, now the Eldar and Necron don't look so overpowered anymore
Mankind has found its savior. It's called hacking off their limbs and ripping out their eyes to replace with cybernetic parts. Humans no longer need any other factions.
Except of course, the race of Space Marines, because we know They of Many Kits are special.
Now Orks, Tau, Dark Eldar and Tyranid just need to find their saviors, and the new arms-race universe will be in harmony.
Seriously, man, that formation looks/sounds/feels.... AWESOME. In like, the most crazy overpowered way. Suddenly, Scatter bike spam seems so long ago!
Seriously, man, that formation looks/sounds/feels.... AWESOME. In like, the most crazy overpowered way. Suddenly, Scatter bike spam seems so long ago!
Enjoy it while it lasts. The next Codex is coming.
Sphess Marines! Honestly, I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about the formation. It's incredibly restrictive in terms of Skitarii units that can be fielded. If someone told me that it was the Skitarii Maniple rather than the Battle Maniple, that'd be a different story. As it is, your Troops choices are going to be limited to the one Vanguard, one Ranger, and whatever number of Kataphron and Kastelans you decide to field. The fast Skitarii army is now bogged down by the slow Cult Mechanicus units.
Lockark wrote: Why dose the plastic hq costs as much as the forge world version.
Isn't the FW Dominus actually cheaper? (without shipping)
Yah it is. But since shipping is calculated by percent of purchase you might as well include it. The only way you don't pay it is by buying at a event or Warhammer world.
If it was two years ago when the CAD was stronger tho, it would of been cheaper even with shipping.
Lockark wrote: Why dose the plastic hq costs as much as the forge world version.
Isn't the FW Dominus actually cheaper? (without shipping)
Yah it is. But since shipping is calculated by percent of purchase you might as well include it. The only way you don't pay it is by buying at a event or Warhammer world.
If it was two years ago when the CAD was stronger tho, it would of been cheaper even with shipping.
I think at about 200GBP you get free shipping
Fortifications have no faction.
And yeah, at 250 GBP you get free shipping. I already have a Cerastus Knight Castigator on my shopping list, which is 170... Plus the Dominus... Just a tad shy. Now all FW needs to do is release IA14 for the Mechanicus and I'll be set.
I'm so happy! finally we know about the battle congregation, 1 hq and 2 troops is awesome, not need for electro priests!
that also means I can fit my Ordo Machinum detachment in a 1850 game and I can get my vostroyans gun line in a 2500 one !! so much fluff and it's actually gonna be OP for once !!
Mr.Church13 wrote: Wow I see that on the fast track to a full on banned formation list.
When they are continually throwing out these formations with big bonuses, no meaningful restrictions (or in some cases, no restrictions at all), and no points cost? Yeah, the rules writers at GD have totally jumped the shark. I mean, why would anyone fielding an IK army ever NOT take the Exalted Court? Same exact unit composition as the base IK list, and free upgrades to everyone's BS and WS, plus a better ion shield for your warlord, who's going to play a base IK list when that's there to be taken? And the list of poorly conceived formations is growing every month, and with every new release.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Wow I see that on the fast track to a full on banned formation list.
When they are continually throwing out these formations with big bonuses, no meaningful restrictions (or in some cases, no restrictions at all), and no points cost? Yeah, the rules writers at GD have totally jumped the shark. I mean, why would anyone fielding an IK army ever NOT take the Exalted Court? Same exact unit composition as the base IK list, and free upgrades to everyone's BS and WS, plus a better ion shield for your warlord, who's going to play a base IK list when that's there to be taken? And the list of poorly conceived formations is growing every month, and with every new release.
I don't think it's unintentional. GW hates outsiders influencing their flagship games rules with their own restrictions, ETC, ITC etc. etc.
I mean, they put out escalation and those independent orgs said no LOW so they did a two pronged attack with IK's and LOW's special characters
The indies restrict formations, so they put out these "decurions"
You need to play CAD? GW says nope and puts out entire armies like harlequins with no HQ etc.
The list continues to grow.
It's like an arms race between the two, where GW says their a beer and prezels game but the indies insist of "fixing" GW's game, so of course GW gets a luagh by throwing wrench after wrench into the cogs
Mr.Church13 wrote: Wow I see that on the fast track to a full on banned formation list.
When they are continually throwing out these formations with big bonuses, no meaningful restrictions (or in some cases, no restrictions at all), and no points cost? Yeah, the rules writers at GD have totally jumped the shark. I mean, why would anyone fielding an IK army ever NOT take the Exalted Court? Same exact unit composition as the base IK list, and free upgrades to everyone's BS and WS, plus a better ion shield for your warlord, who's going to play a base IK list when that's there to be taken? And the list of poorly conceived formations is growing every month, and with every new release.
I don't think it's unintentional. GW hates outsiders influencing their flagship games rules with their own restrictions, ETC, ITC etc. etc.
I mean, they put out escalation and those independent orgs said no LOW so they did a two pronged attack with IK's and LOW's special characters
The indies restrict formations, so they put out these "decurions"
You need to play CAD? GW says nope and puts out entire armies like harlequins with no HQ etc.
The list continues to grow.
It's like an arms race between the two, where GW says their a beer and prezels game but the indies insist of "fixing" GW's game, so of course GW gets a luagh by throwing wrench after wrench into the cogs
This makes so much sense, too bad the design team at GW aren't allowed to be more open about the stuff they talk about, particularly on forums. It's all rather funny, actually, because when you talk to them at events in-person, they literally tell you (almost) everything.
Edit: I always wondered why Edd 209's guns were loaded in that scene...
Lol, yeah was a bit of an oversight
Probably something like this:
JERKASS EXECUTIVE: And I want everything operational! Exactly like it's the real thing!
NERVOUS TECHNICIAN: Okay, obviously except for live am....
JERKASS EXECUTIVE: "Except" nothing!
NERVOUS TECHNICIAN: But if we load...
JERKASS EXECUTIVE: What part of "nothing" do you not understand?
NERVOUS TECHNICIAN: B-but...
JERKASS EXECUTIVE: You want to be fired?
NERVOUS TECHNICIAN: No sir....
None of the formations are truly free in that you are spending a lot of points on things you might not want otherwise, you are giving up the core cmd benefits, and are forced into one build.
Baron detachment, you lose OS and the ability to ally in other things. Pretty significant.
Leth wrote: None of the formations are truly free in that you are spending a lot of points on things you might not want otherwise, you are giving up the core cmd benefits, and are forced into one build.
Baron detachment, you lose OS and the ability to ally in other things. Pretty significant.
Well the Skitarii can't use the CAD anyway so no way to have objective secure....also the Battle Maniple fomation grant the same bonus as the normal Maniple detachment
and beside the ruststalkers there's no real tax units in the formation
as for Knights well at 375-425 pts I think it's better to only use one in 1500-1850 pts game
only big downside is not using a CAD for cult mechanicus, but do get the ability to re-use a previously used Canticle of the Omnissiah
EDIT: when i think of it, you can add another Oathsworn detachment and add another knight !
Leth wrote: None of the formations are truly free in that you are spending a lot of points on things you might not want otherwise, you are giving up the core cmd benefits, and are forced into one build.
Baron detachment, you lose OS and the ability to ally in other things. Pretty significant.
OS is overrated, having all the units count towards canticles, plus the skitarri still getting their formation benefits and the ad mech getting theirs plust the benefits of this formation, outweighs anything they lost, you're getting units for free basically
Leth wrote: None of the formations are truly free in that you are spending a lot of points on things you might not want otherwise, you are giving up the core cmd benefits, and are forced into one build.
Baron detachment, you lose OS and the ability to ally in other things. Pretty significant.
Well, so what?
And how does one taking an IK formation lose the ability to take allies?
Frankly, losing OS is trifling, IMHO, to having all of your Knights at BS/WS 5 or better.
People keep saying ObjSec is trifling and not important however ObjSec is GAME winning. One extra S6 shot hitting per turn per knight will rarely win a game however ObjSec can and will win games on a regular basis.
The biggest weakness of 3+ imperial knight armies is simply the inability to effectively engage MSU builds which can have 18+ units on the table (or even worse can conjure, spawn, or bring units back). Combine this with the ease of hiding fast ObjSec units behind LoS blockers in corners and jumping on objectives and 3+ knight armies bleed game losses against tactically flexible armies. ObjSec crusaders fixes a lot of this. Sit on the objectives you need, shoot all your weapons, and stomp any unit that gets too close.
For the baron detachment in 1850 you won't have enough points to bring in a meaningful ally. That eaves you with 5 models on the table. They are not OS so you can't count on them to hold an objective. With each knight that dies your board coverage decreases. So on and so forth.
For the formation it is actually very subtle but well done. All of the things that are cheap to spam upgrades on are limited(battle maniple) and all of the units you can buy more of have high model costs and low upgrade costs.
Seriously, I spent a hour or so trying to make a list I was happy with and I couldn't make anything I thought was competitive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the baron detachment in 1850 you won't have enough points to bring in a meaningful ally. That eaves you with 5 models on the table. They are not OS so you can't count on them to hold an objective. With each knight that dies your board coverage decreases. So on and so forth.
For the formation it is actually very subtle but well done. All of the things that are cheap to spam upgrades on are limited(battle maniple) and all of the units you can buy more of have high model costs and low upgrade costs.
Seriously, I spent a hour or so trying to make a list I was happy with and I couldn't make anything I thought was competitive.
For the record, the average range for CM Troops choices is around 24". Given how many points you're sinking into each one of them, having them sit backfield and hold objectives as an OS unit is a huge waste of them.
ansacs wrote: People keep saying ObjSec is trifling and not important however ObjSec is GAME winning. One extra S6 shot hitting per turn per knight will rarely win a game however ObjSec can and will win games on a regular basis.
I agree!! I don't know how people can say that ObSec is not a big deal, or that it "rarely wins them games". I don't even see how that's possible, given two competent commanders.
Leth wrote: For the baron detachment in 1850 you won't have enough points to bring in a meaningful ally. That eaves you with 5 models on the table. They are not OS so you can't count on them to hold an objective. With each knight that dies your board coverage decreases. So on and so forth.
For the formation it is actually very subtle but well done. All of the things that are cheap to spam upgrades on are limited(battle maniple) and all of the units you can buy more of have high model costs and low upgrade costs.
Seriously, I spent a hour or so trying to make a list I was happy with and I couldn't make anything I thought was competitive.
Yeah, Baron detachment begs to be played in games larger than 1850 -- but really, no different than Angel's Fury, one of the first detachments that came out that was really cool, but too expensive to be useful in 1850 games. Then again, GW never said that 1850 was meaningful in any way, after all, and in their store tournaments, I've seen 1000, 2000, 3000 points (never 1850). Not that I have any issue with it; sub-2000 keeps the game moving at a good pace for most armies. Then again, if both sides have few models at 1850, it's also not a big deal to up the points and put more stuff on the table
ansacs wrote: People keep saying ObjSec is trifling and not important however ObjSec is GAME winning. One extra S6 shot hitting per turn per knight will rarely win a game however ObjSec can and will win games on a regular basis.
I agree!! I don't know how people can say that ObSec is not a big deal, or that it "rarely wins them games". I don't even see how that's possible, given two competent commanders.
Oh, it's very simple actually.
Let's say I have two footslogging troop units, and so does my opponent.
How often is Obsec even going to come up? Once every twenty games or so by my estimate. When's it going to decide the game? Still hasn't. I did manage to use it to score that "hold all 6 objectives" card once, but I'd already blown two thirds of the opposing force off the table and scored plenty of other points by that stage.
It'll come up more if one side has Obsec bikes or is running a metric ton of Obsec dedicated transports, but I tend not to see that around here outside of one Ravenwing force.
ansacs wrote: People keep saying ObjSec is trifling and not important however ObjSec is GAME winning. One extra S6 shot hitting per turn per knight will rarely win a game however ObjSec can and will win games on a regular basis.
I agree!! I don't know how people can say that ObSec is not a big deal, or that it "rarely wins them games". I don't even see how that's possible, given two competent commanders.
Oh, it's very simple actually.
Let's say I have two footslogging troop units, and so does my opponent.
How often is Obsec even going to come up? Once every twenty games or so by my estimate. When's it going to decide the game? Still hasn't. I did manage to use it to score that "hold all 6 objectives" card once, but I'd already blown two thirds of the opposing force off the table and scored plenty of other points by that stage.
It'll come up more if one side has Obsec bikes or is running a metric ton of Obsec dedicated transports, but I tend not to see that around here outside of one Ravenwing force.
I think the prevalence of ObSec really depends on your own meta. I play in two different countries at three different FLGS, one has a meta dominated by MSU in cheap transports, one is alpha-strike dominated, and the last is a scattering of new players who don't know better In the first case, ObSec will matter, in the second, it's getting Seize the Initiative, tough units, and burst damage that matters more.
You're looking at the ability to do 8 Troop slots consisting of Kataphron Breacher or Destroyer units, of up to 12 models each, and 2 Heavy Support slots of Kastelan Robots consisting of up to 6 robots and 3 Datasmiths.
Add in a Magos-Dominus for HQ and you can probably get those points way up there.
Also, they have a number of formations as well which you can use as supplemental points/slots.
Well, you also have 4x Elite slots for Electropriests of either flavor.
Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus seem to be intended for a single "core" detachment with supplemental formations with some very nice rules to add in.
It's also worth mentioning that Cult Mechanicus are VERY points-hefty so getting to those 8 Troop slots is very unlikely unless you're doing MSU like crazy.
All that being said, the black visor makes the Kastellan a little bit less derpy in my eyes.
Not enough to warrant me using them over Castellaxi, mind you.
It's the stupid everything. It's not often that GW makes really poor kits but IMO the Kastellan definitely is one. They took the 1950's retro-toy look too far and ended up with a retro 1950's toy. The arms are too oversized with fingers that can't barely touch each other (which was acceptable only back in the 90's when dreadnoughts first appeared), the body is a bit silly, armor plated egg that looks like one of Dr. Robotnik's boss suits, and the head is lacking of any good esthetic. None of the conversions I've seen have saved the model, and mind you, the people doing the conversions are really really good modellists. It's just the kit which is so wretched.
It's the stupid everything. It's not often that GW makes really poor kits but IMO the Kastellan definitely is one. They took the 1950's retro-toy look too far and ended up with a retro 1950's toy. The arms are too oversized with fingers that can't barely touch each other (which was acceptable only back in the 90's when dreadnoughts first appeared), the body is a bit silly, armor plated egg that looks like one of Dr. Robotnik's boss suits, and the head is lacking of any good esthetic. None of the conversions I've seen have saved the model, and mind you, the people doing the conversions are really really good modellists. It's just the kit which is so wretched.
Any pictures of the conversions? I've only seen a handful around, most were pretty simple. If there were truly some awesome modelers who felt strongly about the kit, I imagine they'd have done some pretty drastic work on it. Mind you, I'm not a fan either, and I'm not an awesome modeler, but I just ordered a bunch of bits from ebay to see what I can't do about fixing it.
The best I've seen have been Krautscientist's Khornate renditions, which have been extensively modified (I think they're very good, but they're so different than the original model).
I wonder if people realize that the Kastelan Robots are designed to come from a time before even the Imperium itself and that's why they look so out of place in the current 40k universe. Of course they're gonna look way different compared to something built 10,000 years ago when they themselves were built 20,000 years ago.
To me that's why I like them so much. They pretty much embody the Mecanicus creed of repurposing ancient tech. Because it's so different you know they didn't build it, but they'll still happily slap guns, cogs, and Eagles on it and use it for war.
Mr.Church13 wrote: I wonder if people realize that the Kastelan Robots are designed to come from a time before even the Imperium itself and that's why they look so out of place in the current 40k universe. Of course they're gonna look way different compared to something built 10,000 years ago when they themselves were built 20,000 years ago.
To me that's why I like them so much. They pretty much embody the Mecanicus creed of repurposing ancient tech. Because it's so different you know they didn't build it, but they'll still happily slap guns, cogs, and Eagles on it and use it for war.
I agree. The fact that there seems to be such a divide over people who love the model and hate it with little in between is definitely evidence that they had a vision based on the fluff and accomplished it. Now, whether one likes that the model looks so different from the rest of the 40k universe is of course purely a matter of taste. I can't make up my mind over whether I love it or hate it - I will need to see one in person.
Mr.Church13 wrote: I wonder if people realize that the Kastelan Robots are designed to come from a time before even the Imperium itself and that's why they look so out of place in the current 40k universe.
Looking out of place is not the problem, looking really silly is. I shouldn't even have to say it, but of course this depends on personal preference. Still, few people are stating their dislike for the model because of how it doesn't fit the aesthetic; most are stating that the model, on its own merits, looks absurd. If you put an attractive Infinity model in 40k, it would look out of place but the model would still be a good model in of itself. That isn't the issue.
Thanks much beast! That resolves the size question. Castellax can definitely double for Kastellan. Had thought that the Kastellans might be bigger than they are. Now its just down to weapons (and magnets). Off to ebay for bits!
Mr.Church13 wrote: I wonder if people realize that the Kastelan Robots are designed to come from a time before even the Imperium itself and that's why they look so out of place in the current 40k universe. Of course they're gonna look way different compared to something built 10,000 years ago when they themselves were built 20,000 years ago.
To me that's why I like them so much. They pretty much embody the Mecanicus creed of repurposing ancient tech. Because it's so different you know they didn't build it, but they'll still happily slap guns, cogs, and Eagles on it and use it for war.
Maybe I don't understand, aren't the Castellax *also* built from time immemorial plus a couple of servo skulls?
Nithoggr wrote: Troops are the track battle Servitors. So you will need 2 units of those and the magos for just over 400 points.
Oh, man. That is GREAT NEWS for me. The servitors and the magos are my two favorite units in the 2 mechanicus books! This is great! They honestly don't need any help, one priest and his servitors are enough for me.
Mr.Church13 wrote: I wonder if people realize that the Kastelan Robots are designed to come from a time before even the Imperium itself and that's why they look so out of place in the current 40k universe. Of course they're gonna look way different compared to something built 10,000 years ago when they themselves were built 20,000 years ago.
To me that's why I like them so much. They pretty much embody the Mecanicus creed of repurposing ancient tech. Because it's so different you know they didn't build it, but they'll still happily slap guns, cogs, and Eagles on it and use it for war.
Maybe I don't understand, aren't the Castellax *also* built from time immemorial plus a couple of servo skulls?
Castellax seem to be readily produced and designed during the Great Crusade. Kastelan (for all known fluff currently) were still "forgotten" tech even 10,000 years ago. So they aren't so much made as discovered and modded out.
Is there fluffy to point that out though? I'm not trying to split hairs honestly, it just seems like both robots are supposed to be the same thing. Heck, their names are both misspellings of the same term!
Accolade wrote: Is there fluffy to point that out though? I'm not trying to split hairs honestly, it just seems like both robots are supposed to be the same thing. Heck, their names are both misspellings of the same term!
Not anything that states directly they're not the same robot, but they're definitely in the same design family. The WD however states that Kastelans came from a time before the imperium.
Seems we'll have to wait until the dex drops for the full story.
Potentially, the Kastellan is a STC design, while the Castellax is an imitation design, like how you have "true" baneblades and "imitation" baneblades.
I suppose. It still feels like both designers at FW and GW were tasked with creating retro-futuristic robots for a project, and the FW designer came up with a sketch of something both retro AND 40k in appearance, and the GW designer printed a photo of a robot from a Google search of the terms and said "done," and when pressed about it he said "it's from the past! Ohhh-oohh-oooo"
I just think they look silly. As far as looking out of place, for me it's not so much that they look like they don't belong in 40k, it's that they don't look like they belong in the same faction. I understand the fluff behind them, I'm just saying in spite of all that it still doesn't look like an Ad Mech unit.
I dunno, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the only unit of its kind, if more Ad Mech stuff shared the same aesthetic.
Another thing to remember about 30k is that during that time the mechanicus was still innovating and reverse engineering.
I remember in the first horus heresy book, it blew me away when they said "We are already analyzing and reverse engineering this technology"
Just the extent of information that was lost on mars during the heresy mars is huge!! Seriously read mechanicum.....and dont think of the knights as dudes riding horses like I did when I read it.....think of it as the new knight models......it will make a lot more sense lol.
The Castellax are semi-sentient, semi-organic war machines mass produced for the Great Crusade. Kastelans are dumb, entirely electronic tools (which need punch cards to work) from who-knows-when re-purposed for war.
The HH automata are usually described as having an aggressive or even vicious spirit, so I guess they were replaced (officially I guess...) by the 'safer' version/proto-type.
Btw, I just spotted the 'Corpuscarii Cult' in the organisation table in HH Extermination.
They still just don't look that good to me. And I see these conversions ya'll are doing and think "dang, these fellows put forth some really awesome effort and sculpting, everything else they do looks fantastic."
It's these kits, the proportions are cartoon-level exaggerated like 40k were undergoing a Flanderization.
Wilson wrote: Agreed, loving the mods people are coming out with.
Heres mine as of last night;
Your previous image in this thread is what made me resolve to get at least one of the robots eventually. I'll still have to replace the arms and give it new feet, but the sunken head is definitely a strong start.
Has anyone else noticed how their legs look rather Eldar? The bubbled silhouette and weird hoof-feet things remind me a lot of Wraiths and War Walkers, as do the knees.
I have my Cult Mechanicus codex in hand as well as the Tech-Priest Dominus. Already opened the Dominus and am working on it, the dang thing has so many small fiddly bits its easy to break something while removing mould lines. I left my CM codex at my FLGS, though, and won't be back there till Thursday. Do you guys want pictures of anything in the 'dex in the mean time? (Pics of the dominus to come shortly)
Wilson wrote: Agreed, loving the mods people are coming out with.
Heres mine as of last night;
Your previous image in this thread is what made me resolve to get at least one of the robots eventually. I'll still have to replace the arms and give it new feet, but the sunken head is definitely a strong start.
Has anyone else noticed how their legs look rather Eldar? The bubbled silhouette and weird hoof-feet things remind me a lot of Wraiths and War Walkers, as do the knees.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Potentially, the Kastellan is a STC design, while the Castellax is an imitation design, like how you have "true" baneblades and "imitation" baneblades.
Or they're just different patterns of the same vehicle. A Mars-Pattern Russ is still a Russ, no matter how different its hull is to the more usual pattern.
Enigwolf wrote: I have my Cult Mechanicus codex in hand as well as the Tech-Priest Dominus. Already opened the Dominus and am working on it, the dang thing has so many small fiddly bits its easy to break something while removing mould lines. I left my CM codex at my FLGS, though, and won't be back there till Thursday. Do you guys want pictures of anything in the 'dex in the mean time? (Pics of the dominus to come shortly)
Wilson wrote: Agreed, loving the mods people are coming out with.
Heres mine as of last night;
Your previous image in this thread is what made me resolve to get at least one of the robots eventually. I'll still have to replace the arms and give it new feet, but the sunken head is definitely a strong start.
Has anyone else noticed how their legs look rather Eldar? The bubbled silhouette and weird hoof-feet things remind me a lot of Wraiths and War Walkers, as do the knees.
It reminds me of a giant space marine.
Elimination maniple and special issue wargear sil vous plait!
Pts cost of said special wargear as well please :]
Enigwolf wrote: I have my Cult Mechanicus codex in hand as well as the Tech-Priest Dominus. Already opened the Dominus and am working on it, the dang thing has so many small fiddly bits its easy to break something while removing mould lines. I left my CM codex at my FLGS, though, and won't be back there till Thursday. Do you guys want pictures of anything in the 'dex in the mean time? (Pics of the dominus to come shortly)
Wilson wrote: Agreed, loving the mods people are coming out with.
Heres mine as of last night;
Your previous image in this thread is what made me resolve to get at least one of the robots eventually. I'll still have to replace the arms and give it new feet, but the sunken head is definitely a strong start.
Has anyone else noticed how their legs look rather Eldar? The bubbled silhouette and weird hoof-feet things remind me a lot of Wraiths and War Walkers, as do the knees.
It reminds me of a giant space marine.
Elimination maniple and special issue wargear sil vous plait!
Pts cost of said special wargear as well please :]
Would you happen to have the height and width of the robots as im making my own.
Enigwolf wrote: I have my Cult Mechanicus codex in hand as well as the Tech-Priest Dominus. Already opened the Dominus and am working on it, the dang thing has so many small fiddly bits its easy to break something while removing mould lines. I left my CM codex at my FLGS, though, and won't be back there till Thursday. Do you guys want pictures of anything in the 'dex in the mean time? (Pics of the dominus to come shortly)
Wilson wrote: Agreed, loving the mods people are coming out with.
Heres mine as of last night;
Your previous image in this thread is what made me resolve to get at least one of the robots eventually. I'll still have to replace the arms and give it new feet, but the sunken head is definitely a strong start.
Has anyone else noticed how their legs look rather Eldar? The bubbled silhouette and weird hoof-feet things remind me a lot of Wraiths and War Walkers, as do the knees.
It reminds me of a giant space marine.
I still don't understand how people get their stuff a week early. But I would like to see the relics and wargear as well. And confirmation on the canticles as well.
Oh yeah, can multiple Canticles be used at once? It would add more of a dynamic if you had to decide whether to give yourself Shrouding, or rerolls to hit, or both, or neither and save it for later.
Gitsplitta wrote: I really like the gap between the collar and the heads. Very nicely done Wilson.
I did that on mine! It happens when you reverse the head (with the dorky side facing back) and let it sink down to the bottom
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Accolade wrote: They still just don't look that good to me. And I see these conversions ya'll are doing and think "dang, these fellows put forth some really awesome effort and sculpting, everything else they do looks fantastic."
It's these kits, the proportions are cartoon-level exaggerated like 40k were undergoing a Flanderization.
).
