On the flip-side, one of the reasons this KS was so insanely popular was because there aren't a lot of competitors in (mostly) realistic sci-fi females (that are compatible with 40k).
Well, hate to burst their bubble, but Victoria Lamb will soon be releasing her first multi-part female guardswomen kit that is compatible with 40k, they look like proper soldiers as well.
If nothing else, I think they will finally push their troops to market if the money ever runs close to being out. In the hopes of generating cashflow.
If they've gone too long after the AM codex is out, they'll lose a big share of the "purchase by association to novelty" cash, but there will always be a segment of the wargaming population looking to start new armies.
The thing is, I think the roles are confused at the moment. They were a boutique store with a few heroines on offer, and that part of the KS was true to their roots. But then they advertised for a whole army, which then ought to have been the focus... to allow fielding an army on the tabletop. But instead, they snatched that off the table and went back to heroines only.
I've been waiting on Lamb's, too. Another sculptor who does very good work.
And more than making a whole army, they were making...what? Three? And a game system to go along with it? Why? There are plenty of skirmish game systems out there - just make the models and call it good.
Can't wait for the Punky plushie to hit Toys R'Us...
In hindsight, it's amazing how fast they started talking about other projects as soon as the campaign ended.
I repeat, take the concept artist, and get him to work on the game, instead of trolling us with these images. Or better yet, get him working on artwork for the rulebook. Crazy idea.
Not to mention a jolly debate about who has it the worst.
Despite not being a Robotech backer (I did express a lot of interest in the game, but after hearing of the reputation of the company behind it I wisely decided not to pledge), I do follow your thread with interest, not because of the woes, well, maybe that as well, but it's interesting to see how it unfolds.
I follow it as well. I know of Palladium only as "Those idiots who gave MDC to infantry", but I like Jetfire from Transformers, I like Valkyries, and I like the one Robotech movie I've seen, so it's a product that does interest me, even if I didn't buy it.
After looking at the new AM codex, I've realized that I'm going to completely have to re-work my pledge order, since it was based around getting the girls to field one of multiple different army lists, almost all of which are no longer valid. Sigh.
Most people feel like that now. I'm quite willing to wait a while longer though if they do release a new KS before wave one it will certainly raise more eyebrows.
If anybody wants to ditch their pledge I'm quite happy to pick any up.
I want to add that Wyrd and the lack of book is more concerning too me at the moment.
migooo wrote: If anybody wants to ditch their pledge I'm quite happy to pick any up.
As someone who has a $281 pledge towards a project that is largely hypothetical in one hand, and a very non-hypothetical laptop with a blown motherboard in the other hand; this is incredibly tempting.
Is it with that French person who tells us to find our zen moment and stay there already because I don't know I don't speak French and Bing isn't that great at translating?
migooo wrote: So am I right saying April has had no update?
Hell, April still has seven days left, "anything" can happen.
Yes. What really irked was not the zen moment, but the "they gave us a deep, rich universe to play with, edgy concept art and minis that'll give us a hard-on while we paint.
1)I didn't pay for a rich universe, but for minis. Besides, I hardly call 3 or 4 texts a rich universe. It is hinted at, but again, not the focus of the campaign. Same for edgy art. It might be nice, but that's not what I paid for.
2)That last line might have been a throwaway, but it crosses the line in my opinion. Yes the minis are cheesecake, and wear combat heels, but the hard-on part is for me too much.
Rich and deep? I don't know about you but jack gak has been explained about the setting. For me most of the fluff came from fan submitted bits of fiction.
And that last line..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, "priorities!" comes to mind once more really. It should be minis first, setting second at this stage.
Mat, I'm disappointed in you buddy. You make a savage, vicious attack on our fine artists that we've supported with our money.... and not posted it here for our amusement.
Kendachi wrote: We, the backers of both Robotech and TGG should get together and host a convention.
A convention of no games!
But, lots of alcohol, lots of that.
Sounds good to me.
Pouring out 40's for those wallets and credit cards lost so some donkey caves can mess up what seem to be sure hits.
Re-reading the Robotech thread is, in some ways, even more enlightening. To watch the dawning horror as people realize what is happening, to see the adorable naivete of some of the backers (yours truly included).
Though to be fair, most of the folks who post here are of the sensible sort (at times, kind of, look leave me out of this) so it's more 'tongue in cheek mockery' than 'blind religious fervor, death to the unbelievers!' like on their official forums.
Not like that's a high bar to clear, but between there and the KS comments (at times), I'm growing weary of their fanboy gak.
Urroz: After all, we [the backers] requested resin for the heroines, just like for troop. (I know I certinaly never did) So don't complain about the silence. The beginning of May will be here soon, with the pledge manager (oh really?) Remain zen, because they are creating everything from scratch, including a rich universe, edgy concepts and minis that will give us raging hard-ons while we paint.
Me: Yes, lest we forget the range was 80% done before the campaign even started. Allow me to remain skeptical about anything they say anymore. Judging from the last update, production on the resin minis was up and running, after all... for the few minis this wave will consist of, anyway. Rich universe? S'il-vous-plaît. A few basic and overhyped texts, but not much more, eh? The fact remain that we gave money for minis, not texts, this changes nothing to the fact that they are late. And for those wondering "how long has it been, already?" I added a link to the countdown.
Me: Oh and your last line might be fine in your local culture, but I find it disgusting that you would treat women, even if as 28mm resin minis, as such. But, if your fetish is less with women and more with resin, my apologies.
Lapin Blanc: Wasn't the 80% only for the first 12K originally planned? They had a lot more to do than planned... They justified the delays by the re-doing of the minis to the standards they kept developping as they went, I believe it. It's true there is a lack of info but I don't think they are acting in bad faith.
Me: Good faith cannot be the sole driver of a business plan. I believe that they did scrap their first production run, but wouldn't a smarter move have been to print fewer figs, run them through the mill and trouble-shoot then rather than go overboard and then figure out you have a problem? (then more stuff about the 80%, Seriously, I am sick of this argument being bandied about) So either they lie, or they are not competent enough to manage their company at that scale.
Me: Oh and 12000$'s original goal was in no way shape or form "3 complete armies," no matter how you count the cents and dollars.
How much do you want to bet that, if they ever actually get to such a point, the rulebook for their game will contain a really passive-aggressive bit of fiction aimed at this thread?
Yodhrin wrote: How much do you want to bet that, if they ever actually get to such a point, the rulebook for their game will contain a really passive-aggressive bit of fiction aimed at this thread?
It would be delicious if it was actually one of us that submitted said bit of fiction, though...
Yodhrin wrote: How much do you want to bet that, if they ever actually get to such a point, the rulebook for their game will contain a really passive-aggressive bit of fiction aimed at this thread?
It would be delicious if it was actually one of us that submitted said bit of fiction, though...
IIRC previous bits of fiction were mostly written by fellow forum members.
edit.
And while it is honestly an interesting idea, there is far too little fluff to work with to set the tone and get a proper grip on the setting as a whole.
I'm going to be optimistic and say that there may finally (please?) be light at the end of the tunnel.
edit.
Scratch that.
For the rest of the production, we are reasonably confident that all the metal Heroines, the spin-cast Troops and Support and Freebies as well as the hand-poured resin Heroines will be ready by September.
It's funny, I started writing this post before the update went out, and now that it is out... it doesn't seem to address any of the problems at hand. Oi.
The real problem at this point is the threat that their behavior will undermine people's confidence in RH's basic competence.
Consider the most recent substantive statements made on their Facebook page;
With regards to the (presumed dearly departed) "Social Media Hire";
Indeed, I'm aware of that...
Well, he's not sitting idle, I can tell you that. For example, he's the one who put together all the miniature details (images, text, stories, ...) portion for the upcoming Pledge Manager. While doing it, he had to collate all of our KS Updates in one Word document: over 100 pages... of text only (I guess that with images, we're probably around 300+!). He's the one who's making sure that many of our backers get to see the images from our Updates by disseminating them elsewhere (you'd be surprised how many backers are not subscribed to the Updates). He's also the one who grabs the renders and photos and integrate them in a presentable form (thereby freeing up quite a bit of time for the 3D team for actual sculpting rather than getting my communication images ready). Indeed, preparing the sculpts for the renders, then doing the renders and integrating them in the TGG layout takes 2 weeks for each Update!
In the end, it's my fault if he's not sharing more new news with you all. I keep piling up more stuff for him to do... So it may not translate in more communications for the backers, but his work has freed up some much needed time for other members of the team, which has allowed the KS production to progress faster. And while in the end that all means that the KS will get delivered faster, I do get how it can leave some backers wanting more.
For a brief moment, consider the lunacy of having to reassure people that their social media coordinator is "not sitting idle".
With regards to their communications problems,
Asharah Raging
William Mc Keever: I definitely do understand the concern and the fears, and I'm writing up something today to share more info.
Meanwhile, remember that the planned 50 models originally planned for the First Wave meant 10 Troops boxes, and we pushed them back to great expense to us to make them better, with the blessing of most of our backers... As for the Updates, not sure you should go by the number of them. Probably want to look at the actual content, where you'll see that the post-KS updates have loads more info in each of them. We had to recopy all the Updates in a Word document last week: 100 pages without images! We must be crazy But again, I understand the concerns, so stay tuned for new info
The problem here is that this behavior really is crazy: RH faced a problem of communication last November. So they hired a staffer specifically to facilitate communications... and then gave him other duties that precluded him from doing the job they hired him for!
Criticism that their updates are too unwieldy and too infrequent is met with a boast that they have written over "100 pages without images!" N.B. that "pages" is not an exact measure, and that the exculpatory measure is entirely inadequate to the complaint. Indeed, their habit of writing enormous updates exemplifies the problem: RH seems to have no idea how to manage their actions to actually satisfy either the expectations of their backers, or, more seriously, their own promises.
Again, let's also note what RH puts out as an excuse, that this one guy had to 1) "put together all the miniature details", 2) "he had to collate all of our KS Updates in one Word document: over 100 pages... " Are these jokes? They are describing tasks that are the subject of an afternoon, but using terms like they were trying to raise the Titanic.
I think you're being a bit negative on the update,
It says 'pretty soon' for the wave 1 stuff/pledge manager (with 2 of 3 shipments of cast minis in hand, and one basingly being done, and the pledge manager written)
they're actually printing the wave 2 stuff (yes things may end up getting re-done, but actually committing to printing stuff shows some progress here)
and September for a (vagueish) deadline for the last of it (bar the spincast heroines)
it's not speedy but there has been real progress (I'd like more progress, more comms, faster etc but hey, stuff has happened, count this as a win and look forward to the minis)
It says 'pretty soon' for the wave 1 stuff/pledge manager (with 2 of 3 shipments of cast minis in hand, and one basingly being done, and the pledge manager written)
they're actually printing the wave 2 stuff (yes things may end up getting re-done, but actually committing to printing stuff shows some progress here)
and September for a (vagueish) deadline for the last of it (bar the spincast heroines)
it's not speedy but there has been real progress (I'd like more progress, more comms, faster etc but hey, stuff has happened, count this as a win and look forward to the minis)
(
I think you may be a bit generious with your interpretation of statements (helped by the fact that they are being deliberately obscure);
The "pretty soon" seems refers to the First Wave, which was broken into 3 parts; as of right now the third part is still in the prototype phase, which still requires printing, approval and then, finally, casting. It "will be ready to ship shortly after that."
September also does not refer to the balance of the line, but to the Second Wave, which, one will note, contains elements originally intended to be in the First Wave.
It seems entirely reasonable that things like the Wolves, the Bikes, the Warmachines and the other elements of the Third Wave will be... 2015? Sometime?
So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this:
What is the current status of the miniature production?
Pictures help, and if we'd been getting more smaller updates with a quick paragraph or two it would have been more impactful than a wall of text that basically said, "We're doing stuff but it's delayed for 'reasons'."
There's a lot of not-apologizing in this update, and they're going about it in the wrong way. They acknowledge that the customer base is becoming anxious, but don't admit they're at fault. Instead, they'd rather provide us a list of all the times Joe Sculptor took PTO for being sick. Do we really care? No. We want to know how things are progressing in the simplest of terms. The pics of the 3D prints, for example, are great, and are really the only thing I care about in this update.
I already know to expect delays at this point for pretty much everything. A precedent exists. You don't need to tell me again, and again, and again. And again.
And again.
Just tell me what you've been working on for the sculpting, and here's some progress pics, and here's a shot of something that came in from the printers. Boom. Done. Update complete in less than 200 words. Tell me about stuff you HAVE done, not stuff you would have liked to get done but didn't because blah blah blah.
You could write a novel with all of the TGG updates...no wonder they're so few and far between. I may run an exercise and condense each update to as few words as possible while still conveying the general message of each one, and see how long it takes. Then I'd ask what RH was thinking when they decided to wait 45 days between updates...it seems the only content that may have been time sensitive in this update was the pictures.
~iPaint
NB: September is their unconfirmed date of delivery for everything from this KS....a nagging feeling tells me to take that with a block of salt lick, though I remain optimistic that the end product will be worth the wait. I would have preferred not to have dealt with all of the updates and their fallout during the interim, though.
This is not, to say the least, entirely reassuring.
First, and let me blunt, you recognized that you had a communications problem. You hired a communications staffer. Then you gave him work that prevented him from communicating. That sounds more like a situation from Office Space or Dilbert then sound decision making.
Second: during the campaign an explicit promise was made that the pledge manager would be "once the sculpts are finalised[sic]"; how will this be accomplished? Will the PM contain only pictures of production minis, renders, prints? Will the manager remain open until the final wave ships?
Finally, There seems to be a bit of confusion: is September the final date for shipping EVERYTHING from this campaign, or is that the likely ship date for Wave Two?
Specifically, do you expect to ship late additions such as Werewolves, Snipers and vehicles in September?
The product being shown is, as ever, very impressive. The communication... that could use a bit of work.
For posterity, the comment where the pledge manager was mention is here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: An interesting thing to consider;
Loud'n Raging 10 minutes ago
@Luca Lacchini:
Heroines are in white metal, and we've recently added the option of getting them in spin-cast resin. White metal Heroines will be ready before spin-cast resin, except for the First Wave, where they'll be ready pretty much at the same time.
From Update 84:
The miniatures of the First Wave are currently in production. They are:
JB: Blondie, Bernadette, Mimi the Radio, Yoko, Cruz, The 5 Lulus, the Freebie Lulu, Harry the Hippo
KST: Shashenka, Tarja, Irina Vega, Volga Potemkine, Charlie the war bulldog, Natasha
IE: Drusilla (Kickstarter exclusive), Mortaria, Vera Krabbenhöft, Lady Hilda von Stroheim, Jinx
From the update above: For the Second Wave, we intend to release all the Troops together. We are currently working on their production now: the re-sculpts and technical modifications that we wanted to make are done, and the models are currently being 3D printed. Of course, there will also be several metal Heroines in Wave 2 as well.
So, from this comment (in the current update) we see that IE will receive three (3!) of their heroines in Wave One. As a point of reference, there are fourteen (14) Heroines in the IE line (15 if you include the KS exclusive that everyone gets).
Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.
Either I have great powers, or updates bring out Buzzsaw.
I think you raise a good point, about the Waves. If Wave 1 is those 23 minis and Wave 2 in September is *everything else*... why do 2 waves, then? I call shenanhigans on this one too.
I guess I misunderstood then. I thought they were saying that Wave 1 was the 23 minis, Wave 2 was all the troops, and Wave 3 would be 'everything else.'
-iPaint- wrote: So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this:
What is the current status of the miniature production?
Pictures help, and if we'd been getting more smaller updates with a quick paragraph or two it would have been more impactful than a wall of text that basically said, "We're doing stuff but it's delayed for 'reasons'."
There's a lot of not-apologizing in this update, and they're going about it in the wrong way. They acknowledge that the customer base is becoming anxious, but don't admit they're at fault. Instead, they'd rather provide us a list of all the times Joe Sculptor took PTO for being sick. Do we really care? No. We want to know how things are progressing in the simplest of terms. The pics of the 3D prints, for example, are great, and are really the only thing I care about in this update.
I already know to expect delays at this point for pretty much everything. A precedent exists. You don't need to tell me again, and again, and again. And again.
And again.
Just tell me what you've been working on for the sculpting, and here's some progress pics, and here's a shot of something that came in from the printers. Boom. Done. Update complete in less than 200 words. Tell me about stuff you HAVE done, not stuff you would have liked to get done but didn't because blah blah blah.
You could write a novel with all of the TGG updates...no wonder they're so few and far between. I may run an exercise and condense each update to as few words as possible while still conveying the general message of each one, and see how long it takes. Then I'd ask what RH was thinking when they decided to wait 45 days between updates...it seems the only content that may have been time sensitive in this update was the pictures.
~iPaint
NB: September is their unconfirmed date of delivery for everything from this KS....a nagging feeling tells me to take that with a block of salt lick, though I remain optimistic that the end product will be worth the wait. I would have preferred not to have dealt with all of the updates and their fallout during the interim, though.
Sooo muuuuch thiiissss. They talk about how much they talk about talking about things as if that's a good thing, it is not. The point of an update is to convey information that the backers want to know, RH updates read like the wandering, waffling diary of a teenage girl, prattling on endlessly about the boring minutiae of their day, everything that's wrong with their lives, and sprinkled liberally with passive-aggressive bitching.
Perhaps most annoying of all though, is the news that most of the IE heroine sculpts won't see wave 1. Oh, what's that, the models which best fit into the aesthetic of 40K and would thus have the biggest potential pool of customers on eBay won't be in the first wave? Goody, that's my plan to cash out asap down the pisser then.
*sigh* I suppose I'd better contact my local dropship to see if they're still involved in the project, I mean for feth's sake the owner could be dead by now RH have taken so long.
I had an employee at our store who was French. She would literally lose it every time finals came around, because she couldn't, for the life of her, wade her way out of an intro to any essay she had to write. She kept asking me to help her revise and it would usually involve me axing great swathes of text with a red pen.
I think you raise a good point, about the Waves. If Wave 1 is those 23 minis and Wave 2 in September is *everything else*... why do 2 waves, then? I call shenanhigans on this one too.
Well...
Spoiler:
On a serious note, RH continues to say things that simply make one go "Whaaaaat?";
Luckily, we've been so far blessed with wonderful and dependable partners in the production process, who are working on this project pretty much as if it were their own!
And being quite creative along the way, too. We are not allowed to share the inside details with you because they've created some quite innovative stuff for us, but at this point in time, we can say that we are in very good hands!
Seriously? RH's suppliers have them under the cone of silence?
This is exactly the problem I alluded to above: at this point in time, ti's difficult to take anything said at face value. For example, when they say "All miniatures are either finished or in an advanced stage, except for 3 freebies that have not yet been started, but they are pretty simple sculpts." An "advanced stage" would be a whole lot more reassuring if this wasn't the campaign that spawned the 80% meme.
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.
I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.
BrookM wrote: Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
Not to be argumentative, but what would be the point? Is there an actual business reason for such a decision, or is the assumption that they're doing it out of nothing but spite? (I'm not a 'business guy' so I'm not going to pretend like there might not be something I've missed...) Poor planning seems much more plausible than vindictiveness, at least to me.
Of course, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" comes to mind, more than once, with this KS. Maybe replace stupidity with inexperience.
BrookM wrote: Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.
I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.
When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.
Yodhrin wrote: How much do you want to bet that, if they ever actually get to such a point, the rulebook for their game will contain a really passive-aggressive bit of fiction aimed at this thread?
That would be awesome. I'd be sure to pick it up if that were to happen.
BrookM wrote: Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.
I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.
When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.
You have got to be fething kidding me. These total galumphs are getting beyond parody now.
BrookM wrote: Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buzzsaw wrote: Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.
I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.
When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.
I hope they don't 'rework' it too much, that mini was what pulled me in to this mess in the first place.
BrookM wrote: Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.
Not to be argumentative, but what would be the point? Is there an actual business reason for such a decision, or is the assumption that they're doing it out of nothing but spite? (I'm not a 'business guy' so I'm not going to pretend like there might not be something I've missed...) Poor planning seems much more plausible than vindictiveness, at least to me.
You might not be a "business guy", but your instincts serve you right. If you don't bring product to market, you're not going to increase your cashflow. Even if they were super-smart about the funds, there is no reason for them not to start selling as many minis as fast as possible (once the artsy bunch are convinced they have the best minis evah, that is) in order to turn, say, a profit.
My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.
-iPaint- wrote: So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this: (snip)
All of this.
I started reading, saw the kind of non-information/non-apology/non-details the doc was filled with, started skimming, then just looked at the pictures. Pictures look pretty cool. Honestly, an email that said: "Still working on things, sorry for the delays, here's a few shots of the repros we're getting back!"
Wehrkind wrote: My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.
Wehrkind wrote: My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.
This has the ring of truth about it...
Without really wanting to defend them, it has the ring of "what most of us assume" in it, it may be true, it may not be.
Wehrkind wrote: My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.
This has the ring of truth about it...
Without really wanting to defend them, it has the ring of "what most of us assume" in it, it may be true, it may not be.
Search your feelings; you know it to be true!
You are right, we don't really know of course. I think there are pretty likely options though, and most of us who have worked in businesses etc. have been taught by experience that "Lots of words about what I wanted to do, and very little about what I did" is cant for "I have been futzing around a good bit instead of getting cracking on getting the important things done."
For instance, as others have pointed out, if you are super busy and getting lots done and have to write an update, you snap a bunch of pictures with your phone and write "Hey, not much time, but here's what I have been doing!" You don't write 10,000 words on what you wanted to do but couldn't get to because of random things. That is usually what people do when they have been procrastinating and don't want to admit it. (I know from personal experience on both sides of that coin! )
This is certainly not a problem unique to TGG; I think it is endemic with KickStarters in general when people don't face just raising money but actually getting the money to go to things they need. In other words, if the models were done and just needed sent to be cast it won't be an issue, but when you are going through the whole process and basically getting paid long in advance of the work, things are going to slow down.
I didn't say it was 100% spot on - just that it is a likely scenario.
As are many other things, I suppose.
1) Alien abduction, followed by replacement by pod people. Pod people are then unable to follow proprietary work flow. Project is delayed.
2) Alien abduction, followed by replacement by pod people. Pod people are able to follow proprietary work flow.Unfortunately, Pod People are unable to follow proprietary work flow from their blessed, wonderful and dependable partners in the production process. Project is delayed.
Ah, the reported "Duke Nukem Forever" approach? Where they spend untold hours redoing work because a new engine came out or someone got a brilliant idea that required scrapping entire levels and starting from scratch?
Gods, I remember the first Duke Nukem. Then DN3d... then driving, sex, alcohol, school, work, sex, that time in the well... then DN Forever. I am still surprised that ever happened.
Daikatana had the same thing, switching engines once or twice, being too ambitious, led by wannabe rockstars who managed to polarize the community with certain things they said.
No way man that game was just a bad dream made flesh. It never happened like Aliens at Roswell or something else that never happened * Cough * PromisedemailfromRagingHeroes * Cough *
I can't even begin to contemplate that the money is all gone. I mean, my brain says it has to be a possibility. But even after you skim the usual Amazon and KS fees from the top. But they've been taking in money ever since the campaign ended via Paypal (check Facebook), and that is straight in their pocket...
A solid printer like what I get my stuff done on will set you back 50-60k. There's a pretty steep learning curve with the software that could keep it from being used immediately as it'd take some time to get situated with it. With the type of money this campaigned raised I'm sure they'd easily be able to afford a printer to do all their mastering in house.
-iPaint- wrote: So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this: (snip)
All of this.
I started reading, saw the kind of non-information/non-apology/non-details the doc was filled with, started skimming, then just looked at the pictures. Pictures look pretty cool. Honestly, an email that said: "Still working on things, sorry for the delays, here's a few shots of the repros we're getting back!"
I'd be happy.
I have to admit, I don't even read the updates any more. I'm not interested in 15 minutes of reading through self-congratulatory prose and passive-aggressive bs that could simply be skipped over in favour of three paragraphs and a few images.
paulson games wrote: A solid printer like what I get my stuff done on will set you back 50-60k. There's a pretty steep learning curve with the software that could keep it from being used immediately as it'd take some time to get situated with it. With the type of money this campaigned raised I'm sure they'd easily be able to afford a printer to do all their mastering in house.
Standard fare for machinery. My question was more for the prints themselves. How much would a single monopose mini of the 28mm persuasion go for, ballparkly-speaking?
paulson games wrote: A solid printer like what I get my stuff done on will set you back 50-60k. There's a pretty steep learning curve with the software that could keep it from being used immediately as it'd take some time to get situated with it. With the type of money this campaigned raised I'm sure they'd easily be able to afford a printer to do all their mastering in house.
Standard fare for machinery. My question was more for the prints themselves. How much would a single monopose mini of the 28mm persuasion go for, ballparkly-speaking?
Wehrkind wrote: My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.
]
This has the ring of truth about it...
Without really wanting to defend them, it has the ring of "what most of us assume" in it, it may be true, it may not be.
Search your feelings; you know it to be true!
You are right, we don't really know of course. I think there are pretty likely options though, and most of us who have worked in businesses etc. have been taught by experience that "Lots of words about what I wanted to do, and very little about what I did" is cant for "I have been futzing around a good bit instead of getting cracking on getting the important things done."
For instance, as others have pointed out, if you are super busy and getting lots done and have to write an update, you snap a bunch of pictures with your phone and write "Hey, not much time, but here's what I have been doing!" You don't write 10,000 words on what you wanted to do but couldn't get to because of random things. That is usually what people do when they have been procrastinating and don't want to admit it. (I know from personal experience on both sides of that coin! )
This is certainly not a problem unique to TGG; I think it is endemic with KickStarters in general when people don't face just raising money but actually getting the money to go to things they need. In other words, if the models were done and just needed sent to be cast it won't be an issue, but when you are going through the whole process and basically getting paid long in advance of the work, things are going to slow down.
I said most of us, I kinda include myself too.
I am not that pessimistic (most of the time) to think they have spend them without doing anything, but I am almost certain they have mismanaged them, or at least they have not got the best they could from them.
paulson games wrote: A solid printer like what I get my stuff done on will set you back 50-60k. There's a pretty steep learning curve with the software that could keep it from being used immediately as it'd take some time to get situated with it. With the type of money this campaigned raised I'm sure they'd easily be able to afford a printer to do all their mastering in house.
Standard fare for machinery. My question was more for the prints themselves. How much would a single monopose mini of the 28mm persuasion go for, ballparkly-speaking?
I'd say around $350~400
Is that per print? when self printing? or when commissioned to a printer? or you mean the whole sculpt from 0 to printed model.
@Erastus: With due respect, your points simply make no sense and the challenge to my reading of events seems to border on the nonsensical.
Simply put, RH not only hired a person for the EXPLICIT purpose of communications;
"As you know, we also have a new member in the team who works exclusively on communications, but he's still getting his feet wet as there is so much information to absorb and so much stuff to set up. On top of that, so early in the game, we all prefer to make sure that his communications are Ok'd by the team, and as mentioned before, the team is pretty busy. But this is already evolving. He will soon be posting tidbits and snapshots of what's happening here every day."
From https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/loudnraging/raging-heroes-the-toughest-girls-of-the-galaxy/comments… in NOVEMBER.
Now, the question is asked, "what happened?" And that answer is "In the end, it's my fault if he's not sharing more new news with you all. I keep piling up more stuff for him to do..." From update #85.
It is not conjecture or assumption that RH recognized a problem: not only did they hire someone to remedy their communications problem, they made specific statements about the steps that would be forthcoming. Now, despite not fixing what was stated to be fixed, despite people continuing to ask "what's going on with communications?", Oops.
As I said before, the question is not and has not been "can they sculpt?" The question is "Can they run a company and follow through on their promises?"
On the specific issue of communications and management, there is an answer. That answer is "NO".
What strikes me at this point is the shockingly bad management that is on display: as I pointed out much earlier in this thread, the problem with TGG is not so much that things are objectively bad, but that the results are so at odds with what RH continues to promise.
It was not the backers that demanded a dedicated media hire, not the backers that extracted a promise of daily updates. The backers did not extract these concessions after a robust session of waterboarding: all these statements and more were goals that RH set for themselves, and then thoroughly failed to live up to.
Yet for all this demonstrable incompetence, the attitude seems to be damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead! Not a shred of humility about what their current state of affairs says about their attempt to radically expand their range, much less the wisdom of trying to develop a stand alone game!
A monopose model would likely run 200-250ish just for the print if they have somebody else do it. The 3d modeling and cleaning of the master would be seperate. Multi part is 300-400
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So we can assume a worse case scenario of 400 per print, at 55 minis. That's 10 jailbirds, 5 lulus, 10 KST, 10 KST heavies, 10 IE and 10 IE Heavies.
22000 down the drain if the whole crop was scrapped, plus the production run that was done based on those masters.
Who knows how much of their gak to believe, though? Though I have to say, Buzzsaw - that I might be willing to forfeit my pledge if I were able to give the RH crew a robust session of waterboarding myself. Your post certainly made me laugh.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: So we can assume a worse case scenario of 400 per print, at 55 minis. That's 10 jailbirds, 5 lulus, 10 KST, 10 KST heavies, 10 IE and 10 IE Heavies.
22000 down the drain if the whole crop was scrapped, plus the production run that was done based on those masters.
Oï. I need a glass of wine.
Quebec detected - great place
That's really annoying as honestly I could care less about the Lulus. Couldn't they just do More IE or I don't know give the jail birds something other than kids with cork guns.
I'd never thought of it that way, but the only "troops box" they are releasing this wave... which ought to be designed to bring in more cashflow (if you subscribe to any sane version of business management), is the child soldier box. So the first mass produced product on a store shelf, alone save for a few sexualized women, will be soldier children.
Oh I can hear the fundie response in the US from across the border.
Yes, they said on Facebook that the minis were re-worked & re-mastered after the batch was scrapped. It might have been a sort of T1 production run, though, hopefully.
Metal heroines all the way, methinks. Sad, because I honest-to-Sagan wanted to do a full army of those KSTs.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I'd never thought of it that way, but the only "troops box" they are releasing this wave... which ought to be designed to bring in more cashflow (if you subscribe to any sane version of business management), is the child soldier box. So the first mass produced product on a store shelf, alone save for a few sexualized women, will be soldier children.
Oh I can hear the fundie response in the US from across the border.
Nice of you to leave something for your great-grand-kids to look forward to....the sculpts should have been re-worked to just beyond exquisite by wave 9......
monkeytroll wrote: Nice of you to leave something for your great-grand-kids to look forward to....the sculpts should have been re-worked to just beyond exquisite by wave 9......
Any kickstarter is an investment towards the future you know...
So, according to the comments section: Someone from the RH team emailed a backer and he/she/it was immediately reassured. If that is the case, shouldn't that information have been dispensed publicly?
They've decided that the best utilisation of their comms guy is for him to individually e-mail each backer......now obviously once they've re-jigged some tiny aspect of something, somewhere, he'll have to re-start the entire process from the original receipient and work through until the next tiny adjustment - at which point he goes back to the original backer....ad infinitum
I just saw your 2 messages and wanted to get back to you right away, even if it’s Sunday. I can tell you are feeling upset and impatient on getting the rewards for this Kickstarter, and I can fully appreciate that.
I swear to you, I feel the same way. I so do wish this project was done and all shipped out, it hurts.
However, from reading your comments on other Kickstarter campaigns you’ve backed, I see that the quality of the minis is also of great importance to you, such as your comment on the Dark Darker Darkest KS, where you mention that “I took one look at the really poor quality minis and threw the boxes in the bottom of the cupboard”.
Well, we’re working damned hard to make sure that our backers say the exact opposite about the TGG minis!!!
As you’ve probably read on most of our updates, we are striving for the best possible minis we can make for our backers.
Unfortunately, I don’t need to tell you that quality takes time. For example, as you may know, we’ve been redoing many of the first minis we made for this KS because, as we progressed with the huge amount of minis we are creating for the KS, we saw room for improvement.
And this back and forth does as meant taking extra time (and money, unfortunately).
But it would have been a pity to release minis at a certain quality level in Wave 1, and then have a next Wave with minis at a different quality level, wouldn’t you agree?
If you’ve read our latest Update http://bit.ly/update85 you’ll see that things are pretty much all lining up now. And you can probably tell that all of our Waves are going to be fairly close to one another.
With the Pledge Manager opening up in a few days and the first minis due to ship soon after that, I’m most sincerely hoping we can finally begin to meet your expectations.
That last line, I hope it's true and not another empty statement.
Well, it reads more like the backer contacted RH directly and received a response that they found reassuring.
Which, from my own experiences, is fairly standard. They do reply to messages from individuals via pm. However, the content isn't always refreshing or delicious. In this case, it seems to mostly be a rehash of text from previous updates rather than anything new.
Again, if waves are going to be fairly close to one another, why do waves at this point? Why not push for everything all at once if things are all "so close"?
But let's be realistic here, the dropships are only going to reach a minimal amount of backers. especially if some have closed, died or reneged since this whole thing started.
With the Pledge Manager opening up in a few days and the first minis due to ship soon after that, I’m most sincerely hoping we can finally begin to meet your expectations.
Place your bets! Will it happen before the end of the week?
Well, we're still 3-5 weeks away from the next update. I fear RH may explode if they update any sooner than that. So I'd put the pledge manager going live on or after the 4th of June (2014).
With the Pledge Manager opening up in a few days and the first minis due to ship soon after that, I’m most sincerely hoping we can finally begin to meet your expectations.
Place your bets! Will it happen before the end of the week?
I'm going to play the optimist card (and hopefully get a few angry overly protective fans off my back) and state that it will most definitely happen this week.
prankster wrote: Well, we're still 3-5 weeks away from the next update. I fear RH may explode if they update any sooner than that. So I'd put the pledge manager going live on or after the 4th of June (2014).
I see what you did there. Chose the date for the 1 year anniversary. Clever man.
Maybe they've decided the older images aren't good enough so they're going to redo them all? Either that, or its to stop people comparing the higher res images of older sculptors with the new delicious versions.
It might make sense, especially since people were asking for posters. With hi-res images of the renders out and about, I could have printed all of those on demand on good sized posters.
I'm cautiously optimistic. It's not like RH is a rookie to making miniatures, they just haven't done something to this scale before and it sounds like the logistics are getting a little overwhelming for them.
I expect, eventually, we'll see these models, I just think (and not to step on any toes here) they're going about it in a very French "it'll be done when it's done" kind of way, taking their time, tweaking it, kicking off for five-week vacations, etc.
I figure it'll give me something to do when I'm in the retirement home...
So some talking about creature caster, here is the answer to my question:
Why some models are ultraforge remake and are more expensive?
The answer:
"Jeremy Glen says:
Dragons and Tree creatures have been sculpted for decades. People keep sculpting them year after year, and I am no exception. Reaper sculpts a new dragon every few months, and they are not "remaking" them.
The dragon and tree walker are more expensive than other dragons and treewalkers because they are HUGE, extremely detailed, have a far greater amount of expertise involved with their construction, etc.
If it is unclear, or seems unfair, then please know that no one is forcing you to back the campaign. Enjoy the thousands of other dragons and treepeople that exist. These are mine, and I stand by them.
Jeremy"
Wants more communication? HAHAHAHAH i really prefere raging heroes answer, they don't blame us when we ask something.
It's getting tiresome, really, because he ignores refutations, and arbitrarily defines what he prefers just as "what I get from RH." Everything else might be covered in gold, if it's not RH, it's gak to him.
Raging heroes answer question too (someone get a mail, i has some answer on the FB page too). Without taking people for useless things just good to pay .
Do not compare creature caster and RH, they are very different, one of the two wants to make good minis, the other recycle old minis and sell them with higher price.
I trust more the one who make good minis and do not take me for a sheep.
skarsol wrote: I am terribly amused that someone is trying to say RH communicates better than the Creature Caster guys.
That's the most bizarre way to spell "anyone not running an outright scam" I've ever seen. Of companies I believe will deliver their products, RH ranks pretty much at the bottom with Palladium (very hard to decide between those two; PB communicates more but it's typically marketing lies so does that count?). So yeah, RH are much, much better than Defiance. Huzzah!
Buzzsaw just now
Hah! francois vansmansart[sic] must be the paradigmatic fan of Raging Heroes: a clear and honest answer is treated with contempt, while bluster and wind from RH merits his worship. An attempt to answer all questions is damnable, while a commitment to ignore as many questions as possible is laudable.
I'm endlessly amused by the notion that what CC is doing is derivative, while Raging Heroes are bold pioneers in heretofore unexplored concepts. Yes, the TGG are not at all reminiscent of any popular lines of infantry from other large manufacturers. Not in the slightest. Nope!
Putting aside snark at the expense of the ignorant, Spencer brings up a very important point: delays affect price. money today is worth more then money tomorrow. At a certain point of delay, the discount on items, the freebies and so on stop compensating for the delay. At that point, rather then there being a discount, the backers will have ended up paying MORE THEN RETAIL on the goods delivered.
As a fun bit of game, let's start asking what Kickstarter Campaigns that ended after TGG but will complete delivery before TGG;
Creature Caster was mentioned, they are still running, can they meet their delivery date of November 2014? That would put them between the Second and Third waves of TGG.
Mantic Games' Deadzone or Dreadball Xtreme? Hmmm...
Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten King by Soda Pop Miniatures? If they can stick their shipping the too should fall between the 2nd and 3rd waves.
Anyone have any other potentials?
This really got me thinking about how many campaigns are going to be able to 'lap' RH on this. Which in turn gets to why I think that future campaigns are going to look more and more like Forgotten King and Creature Caster then TGG, Sedition Wars and Relic Knights. The dangers of over-extending, of getting pledges on concept art alone.
Pretty sure Wrath of Kings will be in hand before the first wave of TGG ships. Heck, I wouldn't put it past Mecha Front to also complete before TGG ships and that KS doesn't end for 48 more hours.
Not to mention that the August delivery target has already been bumped back to Oct/Nov due to starting to unlock the Heavy mechs, and a non-zero chance to go even further in the event things blow up in the next 48 hours and the quads unlock.
But yeah, I figure I'll have the pewter figures from that before I get the plastic figures from RRT wave 2, and quite possibly before they get around to wave 1.
Another similarity, other than the 80%/98% comparison, is the use of "Delicious" here, and "Mouth watering" in the Palladium campaign.
What is it with these people? Were they taught by the same gaky-kickstarter Sensei?
Edit: with all these issues, watch out for massive seam lines in the most obnoxious of places.
You'll know 'em when you see 'em, if they follow suit.
Yeah, according to Palladium, it was something around 10%, meaning it basically offset the ~10% lost from losing Kickstarter/Amazon's cut of whatever they brought in. I could swear they also said only around 5% of backers failed to pay up (Kickstarter has said that on average, 15% of backers fail to contribute), so that's pretty solid, but also means that the "1.4 million" they got is only a vague guideline at best.
But we do know they brought in a ton of cash, and over 11 months later have nothing to show for it.
Sorry, we have a pledge manager and them producing 3 convention exclusive pewter figures that only attendees could buy and they flat out refused to let backers pay to have access to.
Yes. People offered to pay for them to be included with their KS backer box, and they said Nope.
The first one (Battlepod) was done for Adepticon, if I'm not mistaken, so no to that one.
The other two (a Battloid ("Max") and a Female Power Armour ("Miriya")) were at Gencon. While there's no way to know whether or not the money was pulled from Kickstarter funding or their own resources (... *cough*), yes, they were released roughly 2 months after PB had received the funding from Amazon/Kickstarter/whoever cuts the cheques.
I'm expecting Dwarven Forge to deliver on their Caverns KS before I get all of my RH stuff (doing 1 big shipment, not bothering with this "wave" stuff), and that just wrapped up a few weeks ago.
Dwarven Forge's last KS was turned around in about half a year, and delivered pretty much right when they said they'd deliver (maybe a week or so late if people got their stuff in November). Quality product, great communication and feedback with customers, and a painless post-KS fulfillment, so much so that I pledged nearly 3x what I did the first time round for their second KS.
If RH had been even 1/10 as good as DF on their campaign, I doubt we'd have had much to complain about. Instead, we get empty promises, missed deadlines, poor communication, and delays in delivery. I am guessing the TGG KS will be completely finished by Q1 2015, going off of the current rate of (non)productivity.
It might just be me, but whenever a KS gives a target month for delivery, I always assume we're lucky if they even start shipping 1 second before midnight on the last day of the month.
If I'm not mistaken, DF started shipping out in the middle of October when they had a target of October. So from my perspective, at least, they actually started off a couple weeks early.
Not that I expect everyone else to share that view, but considering how many campaigns deliver late, being as generous as I can (and generally adding another 3/6/12/whatever months) helps keep me from going too crazy when the inevitable delays happen).
Dwarven Forge's last KS was turned around in about half a year, and delivered pretty much right when they said they'd deliver (maybe a week or so late if people got their stuff in November). Quality product, great communication and feedback with customers, and a painless post-KS fulfillment, so much so that I pledged nearly 3x what I did the first time round for their second KS.
I'd really like there to be a 'just drive over and pick up my stuff since I live like five minutes away' option for shipping. Last time, I discovered there was nothing more maddening than knowing your product is DONE and just sitting there...waiting.
Forar wrote: It might just be me, but whenever a KS gives a target month for delivery, I always assume we're lucky if they even start shipping 1 second before midnight on the last day of the month.
If I'm not mistaken, DF started shipping out in the middle of October when they had a target of October. So from my perspective, at least, they actually started off a couple weeks early.
Not that I expect everyone else to share that view, but considering how many campaigns deliver late, being as generous as I can (and generally adding another 3/6/12/whatever months) helps keep me from going too crazy when the inevitable delays happen).
We're not talking about a few days delay in shipping though, or even a few months, wave 1 was supposed to ship September 2013, and fulfillment was supposed to be complete by last month. Now you could be charitable and say that the delays are mostly due to the success of the campaign being unexpected and they unlocked so much extra stuff blah blah, but for two things; one, they made a HUEG deal about how long and thorough their preparation was for the KS, how they'd planned for every eventuality, how they were implementing Super Special Secret Workflow Systems to ensure they could cope with any eventuality, so either they were lying out their arses about that or despite all that preparation they were still incompetent enough that we're now sitting a few weeks away from the campaign's 1 year anniversary without any sign of even the pledge manager other than a blurry photograph of a screenshot of a beta version - and two, we know from their own communications to us, laughably incoherent and infrequent as they are, that a lot of the delays are down to them scrapping months of work and (estimated)tens of thousands of dollars of KS money as they pursue their unattainable and pretentious level of "perfection" for the models, to the point that stuff which was fully-rendered during the kickstarter campaign itself and receiving almost universal praise have now been scrapped and started over from scratch.
Nice one. I'll take the Jean Dujardin route any day.
Had a French girl come into the store the other day. She works for a boss who barely speaks French, and emails her everything in English. She handed me an email of his, on which there were "instructions" to have his precious photograph printed. When I asked her why it was dated from early January and had a rating of "High" as a priority, she shrugged and gave me the equivalent of "so what?" I asked if she'd been swamped at work and forgotten about it... and here's the kicker: "if a boss wants something done fast, then he ought to do it himself. If it's handed to me, I'll do it when I want to."
Granted, one individual, not a group as a whole, but it's not the first time I hear such words from across the Atlantic.
Having lived next door to France for a while, it's kind of a country-wide thing. It's nice to go there and slow down a bit, but when you want something on a strict deadline, you better calculate it in dog years...
Had a French girl come into the store the other day. She works for a boss who barely speaks French, and emails her everything in English. She handed me an email of his, on which there were "instructions" to have his precious photograph printed. When I asked her why it was dated from early January and had a rating of "High" as a priority, she shrugged and gave me the equivalent of "so what?" I asked if she'd been swamped at work and forgotten about it... and here's the kicker: "if a boss wants something done fast, then he ought to do it himself. If it's handed to me, I'll do it when I want to."
Granted, one individual, not a group as a whole, but it's not the first time I hear such words from across the Atlantic.
Wow... that girl must have had some very functional body parts to go with that attitude to still be employed months later...
Ugh. There's a 'faction' of the Palladium Apologists that believes things are in part being held up or the end result will suffer because we're asking mean questions/not being nice enough to them.
It shouldn't matter if the RRT backers are mean. PB is a business and their feelings shouldn't be a consideration. You don't see GW slowing down on releases cause of the ward hate on the net. But I get what you mean. Last weeks murmur Kevin made a point about no longer expanding books when his freelancers give him more ideas or he has more in his head. Basically because the fans gave him gak for being very late must have upset him. Poor baby.
That is one thing I have noticed in the gaming industry that I find odd: the lack of professionalism. Not just the gaming industry perhaps, but the hobby businesses that people get into in general. I sometimes wonder if people don't start their own companies in the fields not because they don't like working for someone else, but rather just don't like working, and are under the impressing working for themselves will be easier. That is of course a wildly inaccurate belief!
Not to clog up the thread with RRT of course, we have our own massive thread for those shenanigans. But the parallels are uncanny at times, just thought I'd head that one off at the pass.
That's not quite the case with Raging Heroes though, as they have been producing a few minis for a few years.
When we had Jeremy B Teboul in Montreal for a painting seminar (Mathieu Fontaine thinks I drink too much, by the way. It was a single bottle wine, for my defence. ) I got the feeling that there is a lot of mobility in Europe for sculptors, and companies seem to come and go very easily, too.
So in a sense, I'd say, in retrospect, we might as well button down and grab what when can while we can.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not commenting on Forar's use of Palladium as a comparison, I was responding to Wehrkind.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: That's not quite the case with Raging Heroes though, as they have been producing a few minis for a few years.
When we had Jeremy B Teboul in Montreal for a painting seminar (Mathieu Fontaine thinks I drink too much, by the way. It was a single bottle wine, for my defence. ) I got the feeling that there is a lot of mobility in Europe for sculptors, and companies seem to come and go very easily, too.
So in a sense, I'd say, in retrospect, we might as well button down and grab what when can while we can.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not commenting on Forar's use of Palladium as a comparison, I was responding to Wehrkind.
I dunno. I know they have been around for a bit (I have their first 3 models, number 10 of each I think) but they haven't exactly been churning out tons of stuff since then. They have done some good stuff, but they haven't been setting the world on fire. My guess would be that they were doing pretty well when they could goof off a bit and put out a few kits here and there every few months, but when they got this huge influx of cash and suddenly had to deal with putting together dozens of kits and heroines, as well as hiring new people and the nightmare that HR requirements cause, things took a turn. They probably are a good bit over their heads, but don't want to admit it.
I noticed something odd (also, anyone care to translate what is going down on the comments page? It seems like it's going to be baguettes at noon soon...);
Buzzsaw 1 minute ago
Well, that escalated quickly... moving on.
I was digging back through the first updates to this campaign (which is well worth it for the amusement), and came across something I had completely forgotten about in update #9; a mention of having Hoang Nguyen (creator of the Carbon Grey comic) do some art for TGG. Did that ever actually happen?
I noticed something else very odd: the figures that have been announced for the first wave don't correspond to the figures that are listed as "Available at Launch". The figures listed on the front page as "Available at Launch" are;
Jailbirds: Tanya Tanker, and Cruz, Heavy Gunner,
Kurganovas: Karmina Noxx and Aaqila Noyakin,
I.E.: #42, Lt. Colonel Kruger and Drusilla (the KS Exclusive)
Going by the list presented in update #84, only Cruz is going to be available in Wave One. That seems... odd...
I really did forget about Mr. Nguyen, and the disconnect between what should be available and what will be available is just... was there an explanation for that? By what logic could those figures not be the most refined at this point?
I'm just wondering when I can get some crazy werewolf chicks to modify for my Ariadna forces. The past 100 pages have told me 'No time soon.' As far as I can tell.
Yeah, seriously, CC, I wouldn't wait on those werewolves. They were late unlocks, with artwork "thrown together" so who knows how many cycles of redo need to be enacted before they hit retail. Late 2015?
Automatically Appended Next Post: You can get Confrontation stuff off eBay...
I actually do have an old Confrontation 'starter' box that had some werewolves and some dark knight lookin' people in it. I've been tempted to convert them up into something. They're cool minis. I just like that she-wolf look.
But yeah, I shall not hold my breath, but I'll keep an eye out on things.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: What do you mean, fake pool? I signed a piece of paper BrookM sent me with my own blood! Didn't you receive your copy in the mail?
Yeaaaaaaaaah, about that..
Gotta do something until we're finally deemed worthy of getting stuff.
Now put on that Raging Shiroz cosplay outfit I made you.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I opened up my Kick history for an eyeballin'.
.
The first thing I ever backed was Reaper Bones. It wasn't exactly on time but it was close, everything arrived in pristine shape, and I was darn happy with it. The second was Relic Knights. (Estimated delivery: May 2013).
...
Yeah.
...
Tentacles & Eyeballs from Dark Platypus was next, an awesome set that TSR Legal sniffed out and made him do some major resculpts on, but it still landed almost on time and filled with fantastic stuff. I'm anxiously awaiting his next foray, but I think he might have gotten a bit gunshy. His was the first thing I had delivered, I should note.
Bombshell Babes was #4. After it was finished, they had a special edition Mialee with robots and a giant destroyed robot come up. Backed it, got it. He later did a scout ship with two different crew sets. Backed it, got it. He just finished up Counterblast, what, a month ago? It should be sent out by July, based on his previous work. Four projects, done by a single guy, all complete, high quality, on time ... absolutely thrilled with his work.
Gnomish Adventuers finished with about double the minis that they'd intended, all look great, all made it into my grubby paws. She's since started another Kickstarter, this time for Elves and Fey, about 40 distinct minis, and it's days from hitting the mail. That's a two-person team, I think.
Zombicide, Hell on Earth, Blackwater Gulch, Wild West Exodus, Galaxy Defenders, half of Myth/Drake/Deadzone, they keep landing.
Heck, Crossover Miniatures, again a one-man operation, has dropped three Kickstarters (two of which I've backed, the first having JUST missed) in this time frame.
Watching some companies lap some of my older stuff once, twice, or even *three* times is kinda painful. I understand all too well how long development can be, but regular updates and status reports really take some of the nervous belly out, you know?
Ok, on that picture. What is her collar attached to such that it rotates with her head to keep her chin in the middle? It looks like it is part of a larger gorget, which would make sense if you want to keep stuff from getting to your neck, but that cut in front of her face makes me wonder...
ooops, they are going to have to redo it now. Wave 7!
Wehrkind wrote: Ok, on that picture. What is her collar attached to such that it rotates with her head to keep her chin in the middle? It looks like it is part of a larger gorget, which would make sense if you want to keep stuff from getting to your neck, but that cut in front of her face makes me wonder...
It could make a bit of sense if the idea is that she can raise and lower the welding mask, but only lowers it when she's under fire and hence shooting back.
However, it has another problem: clipping. You can see that the gorget and the welding mask overlap one another, which means that when you try to put that head on, it's not going to fit.
Wehrkind wrote: Ok, on that picture. What is her collar attached to such that it rotates with her head to keep her chin in the middle? It looks like it is part of a larger gorget, which would make sense if you want to keep stuff from getting to your neck, but that cut in front of her face makes me wonder...
It could make a bit of sense if the idea is that she can raise and lower the welding mask, but only lowers it when she's under fire and hence shooting back.
However, it has another problem: clipping. You can see that the gorget and the welding mask overlap one another, which means that when you try to put that head on, it's not going to fit.
So you think the collar is part of the helmet, so when she turns her head it goes with it?
I hadn't even noticed the clipping thing... man you'd think the sculpting program would throw up a red flag when that happens.
Well, there's some interesting chatter on the FB comments for that last image:
Asharah Raging There is a good chance that Zab will be made
Asharah Raging Marc Stephens and James Leeves: Stay tuned! We're finalising the images for the WereSheWolves today! Hoping to post tonight if all goes well
Do you think there will be an issue if I don't bother pledge managing my gak for 8 months or so? I can't fething be bothered, but I might when I have time over the Christmas holidays.
Wehrkind wrote: Possibly in time to be a wedding present for my 4 month old daughter! She will be so happy!
Just to prove everyone I'm not always shamefully negative:
Congrats, mate! Kiss your gaming time goodbye.
Damn, couldn't help myself. I'm happy for you, though. Just don't name her after a RH character, please.
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Azazelx wrote: Do you think there will be an issue if I don't bother pledge managing my gak for 8 months or so? I can't fething be bothered, but I might when I have time over the Christmas holidays.
You could send them an email saying it's 80% complete.
Then when they send you a reminder tell them you had to start over from scratch because it didn't meet your stringent expectations.
Wehrkind wrote: Possibly in time to be a wedding present for my 4 month old daughter! She will be so happy!
Just to prove everyone I'm not always shamefully negative:
Congrats, mate! Kiss your gaming time goodbye.
Damn, couldn't help myself. I'm happy for you, though. Just don't name her after a RH character, please.
Thanks man Turns out my PhD program is eating all my gaming time, so poor Olivia really only eats into my research time. But wow... she does do that! She is a lot of fun though, and I can't wait to build some home brew rules for Aquanaughts or whatever will be popular toys when she is a kid
(A kid as opposed to the mewling larval stage she is just now leaving)
A friend of mine actually got his 7 years old girl into DBA. He made those little coloured sticks, and uses it to get her to practice quick mental math. She loves her "barbarians."
Without even knowing how close she is to using that word correctly, mind you.
You chose a great name, by the way. Very distinguished.
I know that most of the images were renders rather than photos of the 3D masters but damn! I was pretty sure which minis I was going to opt for in the pledge manager but now a lot of the models I had discounted before look much better than I thought they would. Guess I'm going to have to throw some more money at this..
Certainly can't fault them for the quality of the sculpts/renders. Some really good lookin' models there.
What material are people going to go for, metal or resin? I'm really not a fan of metal so I'll be going resin, though I'm unsure how suitable for conversion they'll be.
I'm tempted to go resin, just not to have to repaint edge every few years because of paint chips.
There's a lot of legs akimbo on those bases. I'm a bit worried about the scale, but if it's a few heroes, or unit sergeants, I guess it won't be too odd.
I always expected the completed models to be excellent, so I'm not surprised at all there. I find the Wereshewolves to incredibly ...amusingly naff. No offence to those who like them, but they just don't work for me at all. Easily fixed, though, since I simply won't get any.
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Yonan wrote: Certainly can't fault them for the quality of the sculpts/renders. Some really good lookin' models there.
What material are people going to go for, metal or resin? I'm really not a fan of metal so I'll be going resin, though I'm unsure how suitable for conversion they'll be.
Metal all the way. I can see all the fine resin pieces on these being incredibly fragile. At least they pack their retail stuff well, so hopefully the KS stuff will have the same care.
One thing I wish they'd do is add some alternate head packs. Would really like to get some extra variety for the troop kits. Would be nice to see some more "winter kit" heads for the KST's since both Svetlana and Ivanka have a snow/winter theme to them.
Apart from that, once again, I managed to initially skip over the text of this update and go straight to the TGG Photobucket account for pictures.
So one more month 'til figures in hand if you opt in for Wave 1 shipping.
I'm leaning towards metal--I don't plan on converting any of the characters, so I'd prefer the sturdier material.
However, I'm going to have them all professionally painted, so I am going to contact the gentleman I'd like to have do it and see if he has a strong preference one way or another.
EDIT: And when I initially pledged, I was positive I wouldn't want many of the IE models. But the 40's silent-film-star heads have made me seriously question that.
Fair play to them, when they actually pull the finger out and show their work, it looks fantastic. Perhaps even good enough that I'd be able to look at the models on my painting desk and not get so pissed off I want to puke, in which case I might just keep the models afterall, we'll have to see.
Although, did anyone else see this...
There will be a lot of info on how to use the Pledge Manager...
...and groan aloud? I hope they've not built this bloody pledge manager so that you need to be on an absinthe-fuelled trip to understand what the hell you're supposed to be doing.
Well, the images look good, as usual. Though there's still little content in the update for how long it took to put together.
Most of the text is waffling on about the differences between the materials available, after telling people that the hand poured option is sold out.
BTW, the Pledge Manager is not included in this Update on purpose. There will be a lot of info on how to use the Pledge Manager, and we want to make sure that it does not get lost amidst all the pretty images Also, I've been waiting for the guys to be done with this round of sculpts so that when the Pledge Manager goes live, we are all available to answer your questions. Once they've done all the renders that you see in this Update, they still have several hours left of work on each sculpt (and a few other essential chores as well), so expect the Pledge Manager to be up sometime next week.
I've a feeling, that even if all of the sculpts were finished, the masters approved, production in hand and everyone back from two weeks holiday, they'd still not actually answer all of the questions that come up with the pledge manager.
As for the time frame provided, we were told last update (23rd April) that that there'd be an update in 'a few days' with the pledge manager. Given that it's now 10 days since then and they deliberately excluded the pledge manager because it's not 100% complete yet, I still think it'll be June 4th at the earliest for the pledge manager to be released.
Render wise, things look nice. Though there's less that interests me in this update.
The wereshewolves look ok, probably not something that I intend to pick up,but they're not bad miniatures as such. The furless look reminds me of the Wælwulfs from Mierce so if they scale correctly I may have to pick a couple up for variety.
I do like the alternate parts for Sigrith, so she's probably going to end up getting added in somewhere.
The rest of the renders are pretty much as expected at this stage. Though the JB bikes still look impractical with the way the front wheel connects to the rest of it. Possibly fixable at a later stage, depending on how many parts its in.
The wave 2 prints are interesting, gives us an insight into what might make it into wave 2. Though Drakkan's ammo belt / back plate thing just don't look right in the 3d print. It's possibly just an assembly thing, but it's off for some reason.
So, couple of speculations / predictions based on the behaviour we've seen from RH to date
1) Pledge manager on or after June 4th. (Because of $reasons)
2) Troops get pushed back to wave 3 (Because it's all about the heroines. The troops were just to draw IG players in for counts as armies to get pledges up)
3) Wave 2 will only contain 3-4 heroines that were available at the start of the campaign. (Flavour of the wave is uber stretch goal unlocks)
4) Surprise wave 4, just for troops, after they get pushed back again.
That last one's probably a bit of a stretch, but it could happen once they see people spending more money through the pledge manager. Thinking that the longer they hold off on the troops and churn out the other figures, the more likely people are to add extra heroines.
Jimsolo wrote: Yeah...not a huge fan of wolf-nipples. Tad unnecessary.
File or some green stuff can fix that. You know if you're a twitter weened malcontent who can't handle the primal, sensual nature of feminine sexuality that the artist is representing with this piece *adjusts monocle, sips wine* plebeian.
At least they didn't go the 'actual dog route'. Then they'd have like... six. It'd be like Total Recall.
Yonan wrote:... and now I'm curious how the wolfgirls would be mounted.
Giggity.
In all seriousness I just think they look like badass werewolves, like I would expect from a White Wolf game. They're gonna be excellent conversion fodder for me (as soon as I figure out how to sculpt stuff... time to practice).
BrookM wrote: I guess they are count-as Ogryn or something?
I'm gonna add some gear to em' and use them as the dog warriors in my Ariadna lists for Infinity. They already have some excellent werewolf sculpts, but I think some female wolves would be fun. I got some extra chain rifles and stuff to use, but I'll have to greenstuff some gear... maybe a wolf-sized flak vest, and some extra little equipment here and there. I mean... they're not in super-rage-mode aaaall the time. Usually.
There will be a lot of info on how to use the Pledge Manager...
...and groan aloud? I hope they've not built this bloody pledge manager so that you need to be on an absinthe-fuelled trip to understand what the hell you're supposed to be doing.
I've backed enough Kickstarters that used pledge managers to know that, no matter how simple and easy the pledge manager may be, there are still people in the comments section asking stupid questions about what to do.
Really not a fan of the wolves, but then I wasn't a fan at the concept stage, there's a rather large part of me torn on adding more money into this, I love almost everything that appears but if they're selling wave 1 at retail as soon as backers have theirs if they dropshipped or paid out the backside for extra shipping then I might as well just wait for retail since I'll probably be opting for one big package once it's done.
Wolves are going into a Chaos Guard/Marine allied force, where they will be BSD inspired (basically covered in whippoorwill tatts) ChaosTermies with lightning claws.
Really not a fan of the wolves, but then I wasn't a fan at the concept stage, there's a rather large part of me torn on adding more money into this, I love almost everything that appears but if they're selling wave 1 at retail as soon as backers have theirs if they dropshipped or paid out the backside for extra shipping then I might as well just wait for retail since I'll probably be opting for one big package once it's done.
Really?
How many squads of Lulus do you plan on getting? Or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying you'll add more money to your pledge and still wait until the campaign finalizes, or that instead of doing that, you'll buy stuff at retail and save on shipping, but still have stuff to paint?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Black Spiral Dancers. From the White Wolf Werewolf: The Apocalypse snooze fe... I mean game.
Oh, that's so sad. I can't help but be convinced you either A) lacked a competent GM or B) a competent group of players. W:tA was one of the most dynamite RPGs of all time. If you ever get down into the states, you're welcome to stop by for a game. I'll call in people to play just to show how great an experience it can be. ((Same goes for SLA Industries and Deadlands.))
I wonder if the minis would be big enough to do a thirteen coiled spiral on their backs...
Not sure what base they would need, but they might also make a good stand-in for
A) Daemon Prince. (ESPECIALLY for a Chaos Character who gets turned into a Daemon Prince by the boon table!)
B) Wulfen
C) Ogryn/Nork (I may pick up one for this...)
D) Inquisitor in Terminator Armor
Really not a fan of the wolves, but then I wasn't a fan at the concept stage, there's a rather large part of me torn on adding more money into this, I love almost everything that appears but if they're selling wave 1 at retail as soon as backers have theirs if they dropshipped or paid out the backside for extra shipping then I might as well just wait for retail since I'll probably be opting for one big package once it's done.
Well it's the only miniature I'm after so it's frustrating for me as well. I find it a bit odd that they decided to prioritise the minis for the furrys over one of the initial sculpts that launched the campaign. It must have been a lot more work going from concepts to finished minis that just finishing a sculpt that was already started, at least 80% more work I would imagine.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Black Spiral Dancers. From the White Wolf Werewolf: The Apocalypse snooze fe... I mean game.
Oh, that's so sad. I can't help but be convinced you either A) lacked a competent GM or B) a competent group of players. W:tA was one of the most dynamite RPGs of all time. If you ever get down into the states, you're welcome to stop by for a game. I'll call in people to play just to show how great an experience it can be. ((Same goes for SLA Industries and Deadlands.))
I wonder if the minis would be big enough to do a thirteen coiled spiral on their backs...
It's good to find somebody else that enjoyed SLA Industries, It really did foreshadow a lot of the trashy reality TV we get nowadays
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Black Spiral Dancers. From the White Wolf Werewolf: The Apocalypse snooze fe... I mean game.
Oh, that's so sad. I can't help but be convinced you either A) lacked a competent GM or B) a competent group of players. W:tA was one of the most dynamite RPGs of all time. If you ever get down into the states, you're welcome to stop by for a game. I'll call in people to play just to show how great an experience it can be. ((Same goes for SLA Industries and Deadlands.))
I wonder if the minis would be big enough to do a thirteen coiled spiral on their backs...
It's good to find somebody else that enjoyed SLA Industries, It really did foreshadow a lot of the trashy reality TV we get nowadays
I loved it. Even the most scathing review of the game would have to be something along the lines of "Klingon minotaurs team up with Jedi elves to play The Running Man," and that still sounds awesome.
However, back on topic: the wereshewolves are just a little out of my price range for a single mini of that size. I think I'll probably have to take a pass on them. Still, there's lots of uses for them. I'd have loved to field them as a unit of Ogryn.
Really not a fan of the wolves, but then I wasn't a fan at the concept stage, there's a rather large part of me torn on adding more money into this, I love almost everything that appears but if they're selling wave 1 at retail as soon as backers have theirs if they dropshipped or paid out the backside for extra shipping then I might as well just wait for retail since I'll probably be opting for one big package once it's done.
Really?
How many squads of Lulus do you plan on getting? Or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you saying you'll add more money to your pledge and still wait until the campaign finalizes, or that instead of doing that, you'll buy stuff at retail and save on shipping, but still have stuff to paint?
What I mean is I'm planning on getting everything in the big last wave currently as my pledge was nowhere near massive enough to really justify the extra cost of wave shipping.
I do like the idea of getting things at discount through the kickstarter prices though, and there are at least a few models in wave 1 I do want that I didn't previously meaning my pledge no longer covers everything. Therefore I'm torn between increasing my pledge ,and getting them at discount but much later than people who paid for wave shipping, or buying them at retail assuming they don't wait till the last wave is out before putting them on their webstore (sounds like that's definitely happening). Since shipping costs for only a few figs on their store was quite cheap last time I used it then it might mean it works out better than the KS 'discount' and I get them sooner, that is assuming wave shipping means you have to pay $20 a wave?
Really not a fan of the wolves, but then I wasn't a fan at the concept stage, there's a rather large part of me torn on adding more money into this, I love almost everything that appears but if they're selling wave 1 at retail as soon as backers have theirs if they dropshipped or paid out the backside for extra shipping then I might as well just wait for retail since I'll probably be opting for one big package once it's done.
Well it's the only miniature I'm after so it's frustrating for me as well. I find it a bit odd that they decided to prioritise the minis for the furrys over one of the initial sculpts that launched the campaign. It must have been a lot more work going from concepts to finished minis that just finishing a sculpt that was already started, at least 80% more work I would imagine.
Yeah I thought that was a little odd to say the least, last minute minis added to the campaign are getting sculpts and things that were meant to be finished seem to have disappeared. I shouldn't really moan too much though I still really really want the unit of cyber-zombies to be good (and included), and they were supposed to not be in at all. Would also be nice to see those other stretch goals that weren't hit and were supposed to be freebies get added on, would be a nice 'sorry it's so late', to get a couple more freebies.
Still have two of the female ones from Rackham, might mix them into the squad for variation.
Briefly off topic as I like to at least respond to jibes at WtA, Werewolf may not be everyone's cup of tea, although sadly most of those who are very outspoken about it where either embittered Masquerade players who for some reason where offended vampires couldn't walk over the Garou at equal level, heh, but sadly more often than not brought into the who 'fuzzy superheroes' nonsense thrown around. On top of that I've heard some horror stories of ST's really not getting the setting either and poisoning folks perceptions to one of the best RPG Horror settings out there.
What's really sad is it barely took much more than scratching the surface to discover how dark and corrupt the setting was, how to use it and how damn focused to politics and social interaction it was, easily equal to Vampire in that regard, just on a different stage, if all you saw was endless combat, then something had gone horribly wrong.
Back on topic, I still want to know how the pledge manager will work regarding waves. I really hope it won't be, here's wave one, use some of your funds, and try to remember what's left for the next one. Ideally it will be here's the whole list 'even though ewe have no idea what waves some of theses girls will be arriving in' select all the models you want/need and cash out.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Briefly off topic as I like to at least respond to jibes at WtA, Werewolf may not be everyone's cup of tea, although sadly most of those who are very outspoken about it where either embittered Masquerade players who for some reason where offended vampires couldn't walk over the Garou at equal level, heh, but sadly more often than not brought into the who 'fuzzy superheroes' nonsense thrown around. On top of that I've heard some horror stories of ST's really not getting the setting either and poisoning folks perceptions to one of the best RPG Horror settings out there.
What's really sad is it barely took much more than scratching the surface to discover how dark and corrupt the setting was, how to use it and how damn focused to politics and social interaction it was, easily equal to Vampire in that regard, just on a different stage, if all you saw was endless combat, then something had gone horribly wrong.
I own one of the sourcebooks (the Wild West one, bought from their $6.66 sale), and I think part of the problem is that people get vampire society. People are familiar with the idea of a family with a patriarch or matriarch at the top like the Godfather, and know that that's how vampires are supposed to work, even if it's just from Dracula and his wives. The iconic werewolf, on the other hand, has no society - it's some clueless guy who wakes up in the morning naked and covered in blood with no idea what happened.
On topic: I'll probably be look at the four infantry units (Kurganova and Jailbird standard and command squads) and get whichever one has the least stupid poses. Hopefully at least one doesn't have any of those "on one leg, at an angle" poses that is begging for a snapped ankle.
I might actually know why...
but I'm just not getting "flashed" or "Stunned" by RH updates and pictures. Sure, the miniatures are sweet... but for me personally, I've lost most of my ... love (?) for the project.
I really want some of the models from the very very end of the campaign, so I'll wait till 2017 for them to be released ;(
RoninXiC wrote: I might actually know why...
but I'm just not getting "flashed" or "Stunned" by RH updates and pictures. Sure, the miniatures are sweet... but for me personally, I've lost most of my ... love (?) for the project.
I really want some of the models from the very very end of the campaign, so I'll wait till 2017 for them to be released ;(
Given that they're working on the hairy bints and the Jetgirls, and they've apparently chucked out tons of the work done early in the campaign on some of the heroines, I don't think you can rely on anything as regimented as "order they were revealed/unlocked in" to determine when any particular model will actually come out. One cannot expect a True Artiste to predict the whims of his Muse, afterall
Or the 3D rendering and design team is in a different place then the mastering and sculpting team.
I don't care what your supahr seckret squirrel design process is, there's no good reason to have a 3D sculptor NOT work ahead of the rest of the team, possibly by a significant margin and revise previous work as needed.
Jimsolo wrote: I'm leaning towards metal--I don't plan on converting any of the characters, so I'd prefer the sturdier material.
However, I'm going to have them all professionally painted, so I am going to contact the gentleman I'd like to have do it and see if he has a strong preference one way or another.
EDIT: And when I initially pledged, I was positive I wouldn't want many of the IE models. But the 40's silent-film-star heads have made me seriously question that.
Metal here as I don't trust resin, and I was *really* hoping that they'd follow through and make the plastic sprue troops that they'd suggested they'd do when the money got high enough (About a tenth of what they actually brought in.) ... I love plastic more than any other format. Resin can't withstand a fraction of the abuse. :(
And, yeah, the Iron Empire I'd utterly dismissed until they started showing off all the alternate heads. That was a huge game-changer.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I though spin-cast resin wasn't brittle, but had a bit of spring to it? Never had any, so I can't say for sure.
Spin-cast resin is unreliable. Some is brittle, some bends under its own weight, some is pock-marked with holes, some shrinks. Or all of the above. We won't know which until we see it.
I can see all the fine resin pieces on these being incredibly fragile. At least they pack their retail stuff well, so hopefully the 
