Mortal wound on the charge, 2D character targeting pistol that benefits from chapter doctrine.
Mathhammer is saying Rend is better then S5 except against T8, the claws are AP-3 for when it matters.
So 3 extra melee attacks and 3++ storm shield vs pistol shots, 2" extra move, and reroll charges w/o warlord trait.
Biggest question is 2/3CP for Chapter Master and Hero of the Chapter worth 50 points.
Let's be clear, he's not nearly what I was hoping for and I think IH are at the top of the pile these days. 110 for Feirros is inane. I'm really interested in why their designer was allowed to go ham on their rules, when its seems the other chapters were more constrained.
... Make a Vanguard of shooty dreads characters, even in a soup army.
... make a Leviathan a character and give it the -1 to wound relic or the -1 damage relic and dare your opponent to kill it (cue half-damage strat on top and, if you really wanna go nuts, use scouts as shield drones).
... make an Iron Clad a character (8 wounds) and give it the -1 damage relic next to some leviathans
... 110 point super-techmarine does his 3 damage heal twice
Sprue breakdowns are up...Shrike has no alternate head and the helmet is sculpted to his belt. :-s
It does look doable to remove with no real damage, but I'll have to wait until he's in hand to tell for sure. Works for me, as no way in hell am I doing my white recipe over black spray.
Kanluwen wrote: Sprue breakdowns are up...Shrike has no alternate head and the helmet is sculpted to his belt. :-s
It does look doable to remove with no real damage, but I'll have to wait until he's in hand to tell for sure. Works for me, as no way in hell am I doing my white recipe over black spray.
The raven sprue upgrade has two i think, but that also includes removing the OTHER helmet on his hip
Kanluwen wrote: It also involves having to hand sculpt all the detail on Shrike's helmet after removing the skull(which is the mark of a captain).
It should be decently easy to remove the helmet on his hip. I wouldn't worry about it. I have removed hip helmets on literally every model that comes with them save the Phobos Captain(because it was in two parts and it would be a pain in the rear). Worst case scenario, you have to throw a tiny bit of green stuff on the spot it came from. I wouldn't sweat it.
Kanluwen wrote: It also involves having to hand sculpt all the detail on Shrike's helmet after removing the skull(which is the mark of a captain).
It should be decently easy to remove the helmet on his hip. I wouldn't worry about it. I have removed hip helmets on literally every model that comes with them save the Phobos Captain(because it was in two parts and it would be a pain in the rear). Worst case scenario, you have to throw a tiny bit of green stuff on the spot it came from. I wouldn't sweat it.
You'll note that my post was in reply to someone suggesting just using the beakie head from the RG upgrade frame.
Also, surprisingly the Phobos Captain head was a breeze to remove...assuming you do it before you build/paint.
Kanluwen wrote: It also involves having to hand sculpt all the detail on Shrike's helmet after removing the skull(which is the mark of a captain).
It should be decently easy to remove the helmet on his hip. I wouldn't worry about it. I have removed hip helmets on literally every model that comes with them save the Phobos Captain(because it was in two parts and it would be a pain in the rear). Worst case scenario, you have to throw a tiny bit of green stuff on the spot it came from. I wouldn't sweat it.
You'll note that my post was in reply to someone suggesting just using the beakie head from the RG upgrade frame.
Also, surprisingly the Phobos Captain head was a breeze to remove...assuming you do it before you build/paint.
This is true, I was just reiterating that you don't even need to explore using the Upgrade head as an option (and Shrike's helmet has a winged skull, so the other helmet doesn't even work).
I used one of the Imperial Fists upgrade heads on my Phobos Captain instead, looks pretty great, IMO.
Is it just me, or is $84AUD for a box of 3 Eliminators just taking the piss? Who is forking out nearly $100 for 3 guys haha. Man, GW is really pushing their prices.
Also the new Primaris characters being $70 is even worse. That’s insane for a single character. Man... I remember when I was laughing at the new Winged Blood Angel Chaplain being $40...
It really is a make or break moment for me. I've played for long enough where this brutal neverending Marine release is either the most recent Eldar "wait for the next book" meta crushing garbage or the Traitor Legions "Wow! Finally some lore accurate Power and Theme what a wonderful time to be playing... New invalidating edition? WTF? Moment and I don't honestly know which I'd prefer.
Eldarain wrote: It really is a make or break moment for me. I've played for long enough where this brutal neverending Marine release is either the most recent Eldar "wait for the next book" meta crushing garbage or the Traitor Legions "Wow! Finally some lore accurate Power and Theme what a wonderful time to be playing... New invalidating edition? WTF? Moment and I don't honestly know which I'd prefer.
Talk about skewed perspective, lol.
Dunno, the meta crushing garbage spoiling everyone's game since at least Adepticon, if not before, winning 60-70% of GTs and Majors, frequently the army both players on the top table field, as evidenced with Slaughterfest, etc.., has been Chaos.
And before that, the meta-crushing garbage was Cultist-spam
And before that, the meta-crushing garbage was Smash-Bros
And before that, the meta-crushing garbage was endless poxwalkers
And before that, the meta crushing garbage was Alpha Legion rush
And before that, the meta crushing garbage was brimstone spam
And before that, the meta crushing garbage was Maelific Lords and Big Bird.
If you had a time machine to go back to June 2017 and remove Chaos from 40K 8th edition, about 95% of all balance problems would be solved, lol.
... Make a Vanguard of shooty dreads characters, even in a soup army.
... make a Leviathan a character and give it the -1 to wound relic or the -1 damage relic and dare your opponent to kill it (cue half-damage strat on top and, if you really wanna go nuts, use scouts as shield drones).
... make an Iron Clad a character (8 wounds) and give it the -1 damage relic next to some leviathans
... 110 point super-techmarine does his 3 damage heal twice
But they were the specific examples used in the Warhammer Preview video.
So either Iron Hands get an exception (30%) or the guy who wrote the Iron Hand supplement didn't know (lets call it 70% ). And in the latter case, they might get FAQed (50% ? ?)
Just saw 2 streams from French Wargame Studio about Iron Hands and Raven Guard and he says that the Salamanders doctrine rumored to be "+1 to hit if you are below 12" and +1 to wound for flamer and fusion weapon." No idea if it's in devastator or tactical doctrine tho.
30 quid is a fair bit to be fair, but i will still be grabbing a box. The anvil industry black ops sniper is about 12 quid alone, plus all the extra rifles and bits will come in handy.
Psychocouac wrote: Just saw 2 streams from French Wargame Studio about Iron Hands and Raven Guard and he says that the Salamanders doctrine rumored to be "+1 to hit if you are below 12" and +1 to wound for flamer and fusion weapon." No idea if it's in devastator or tactical doctrine tho.
I like that. Are there any clips of this stream on youtube or something?
+1 to hit if less than 12" makes my assault squads & termies happy. Tac squads & the like are +1 in RF range. same goes for assault hellblasters/intercessors/reivers/infiltrators.
the +1 to wound for flame/melta is great if true. w dev doctrine my Deimos pred w infernus/magnamelta hauling ass up the board should be cool.
What we really need is more range on flame & melta. if it was +3" to range of flame & +6" for melta, i would take that over + to hit for either. Maybe always in MM range?
but we'll see whenever GW decides to release the 18th supplement.
Tiberius501 wrote: Is it just me, or is $84AUD for a box of 3 Eliminators just taking the piss? Who is forking out nearly $100 for 3 guys haha. Man, GW is really pushing their prices.
Also the new Primaris characters being $70 is even worse. That’s insane for a single character. Man... I remember when I was laughing at the new Winged Blood Angel Chaplain being $40...
Australian prices being insane shouldn't really be a surprise by this point. It's the reason my GW purchases largely dried up when they instituted the regional sales restrictions.
You could run the Phobos Captain as a Eliminator Sergeant with an Instigator Bolt Carbine. I am considering that, since I will never use him otherwise unless the Imperial/Crimson Fists make him insanely good. I am considering that as an option rather than converting the Shadowspear Sergeant to have an Instigator Bolt Carbine.
Tiberius501 wrote: Is it just me, or is $84AUD for a box of 3 Eliminators just taking the piss? Who is forking out nearly $100 for 3 guys haha. Man, GW is really pushing their prices.
Also the new Primaris characters being $70 is even worse. That’s insane for a single character. Man... I remember when I was laughing at the new Winged Blood Angel Chaplain being $40...
Australian prices being insane shouldn't really be a surprise by this point. It's the reason my GW purchases largely dried up when they instituted the regional sales restrictions.
Hmm, it's not just Australia. At 40€ they're more expensive than monstrous infantry like Minotaurs. Primaris are large, but not that large. They're even less substantial compared to Juggernauts and their respective riders, even though the Marines are more expensive per model.
This year GW is trying to set a new standard for pricing while their sales are so good and they think they're popular enough to get away with it.
The only saving grace for me is that I already have 3 from the shadowspear box, and I plan to make 6 out of the box (spare rifles) so that I have the max 9 with minimal investment. This, of course, is all dependent on me actually choosing Ravenguard as my Primaris marine army.
A White Dwarf codex means that we'll probably won't see a Salamanders codex release including an upgrade sprue and Primaris character model soon.
Guess the next release wave will be Imperial Fists (we've already seen the upgrade sprue) and Black Templars, including the Impulsor grav tank and Infiltrators.
stahly wrote: A White Dwarf codex means that we'll probably won't see a Salamanders codex release including an upgrade sprue and Primaris character model soon.
Guess the next release wave will be Imperial Fists (we've already seen the upgrade sprue) and Black Templars, including the Impulsor grav tank and Infiltrators.
what makes you think it's white dwarf? GW isn't going to skip out on salamanders for a supplement.
fans of Vulkan Hes'tan might wanna be worried, if they didn't primarisify him it might be because they're plotting to kill him
or it might just be they wanna pad out every codex with at least 2 datasheets. although iron hands and raven guard only get one yeah?
BrianDavion wrote: what makes you think it's white dwarf? GW isn't going to skip out on salamanders for a supplement.
fans of Vulkan Hes'tan might wanna be worried, if they didn't primarisify him it might be because they're plotting to kill him
He'stan still has a very decent model from ... 5th Edition?
In fact... The currently "Primarisified" characters seem to only be of models pre-5th edition. Am I right on that? Tigurius and Calgar are fourth. Shrike is from fourth. Was Korsarro also from fourth edition?
stahly wrote: A White Dwarf codex means that we'll probably won't see a Salamanders codex release including an upgrade sprue and Primaris character model soon.
Guess the next release wave will be Imperial Fists (we've already seen the upgrade sprue) and Black Templars, including the Impulsor grav tank and Infiltrators.
Yeah why would you think white dwarf? They're a first founding faction and quite popular. Also double the # of models as Ravenguard and Iron hands!
BrianDavion wrote: what makes you think it's white dwarf? GW isn't going to skip out on salamanders for a supplement.
fans of Vulkan Hes'tan might wanna be worried, if they didn't primarisify him it might be because they're plotting to kill him
He'stan still has a very decent model from ... 5th Edition?
In fact... The currently "Primarisified" characters seem to only be of models pre-5th edition. Am I right on that? Tigurius and Calgar are fourth. Shrike is from fourth. Was Korsarro also from fourth edition?
eaither way if sallies get a new char thats awesome and I'm happy for them
This looks pretty rad. I am happy for the Salamanders players. This is the first instance we got a new Primaris character instead of them upgrading an existing character (Feiros is a brand new character replacing no one).
At any rate, the rules look solid. The Tactical Doctrine boost is nice. Expect to see a ton more Flamer-equipped Aggressors. Not a lot of utility for Primaris though, beyond that. Minimum Tactical Squads will probably see a resurgence for Salamanders, with Melta or Flamer plus Combi weapons being the norm. Sternguard with Heavy Flamers should be pretty effective as well.
The new Character seems pretty good. He basically gives friendly Salamander units the Blood Angels Chapter Tactics. Surround him with dudes with lots of attacks. Cause mayhem.
Ferios also coul;dn't replace anyone cause the iron hands prior to him had no one.
and yeah Sallies don't strike me as a very primaris friendly chapter. which is fine not every rules set should be, the marine line is lasrge after all.
I wonder if we'll be seeing sally sucessors with the 3 inches to weapon attack and master crafted rules. those could be pretty nuts
BrianDavion wrote: Ferios also coul;dn't replace anyone cause the iron hands prior to him had no one.
and yeah Sallies don't strike me as a very primaris friendly chapter. which is fine not every rules set should be, the marine line is lasrge after all.
I wonder if we'll be seeing sally sucessors with the 3 inches to weapon attack and master crafted rules. those could be pretty nuts
That was my point. Had they released Feiros whilst there was another model that was left in fine cast, I would be a little irritated. Hopefully they don't repeat this with the Imperial Fists or Crimson Fists.
Maybe we will get some more Flamer or some Melta Primaris units at some point (Gravis book?) that will make Primaris Salamanders less of a joke.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I dunno what you guys are on about. If those leaked rules are true, they're still easily one of the bottom Chapters for sure.
That's my initial thought too, although it's still early and we've only seen a handful of things.
However, melta and flamer +1 to W in Tactical doesn't help for Invictor warsuits and drop pod MM which would love for that to kick in on Turn 1.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I dunno what you guys are on about. If those leaked rules are true, they're still easily one of the bottom Chapters for sure.
That's my initial thought too, although it's still early and we've only seen a handful of things.
However, melta and flamer +1 to W in Tactical doesn't help for Invictor warsuits and drop pod MM which would love for that to kick in on Turn 1.
turn 2 drops should be good for my 18th. kinda wished they also worked in assault as well. Dredpod with relic contemptor armed w MM & HF should kick ass.
I wouldn't be surprised if we got the Hellfury unit in a future Psychic Awakening book. If it has a bunch of flamer options, then that'll make a primaris Salamanders army much better. As it is, Aggressors not being able to deep strike and their flamers only being 8" range really limits their efficacy. You have to spend 300 ish points on a transport to get them up the field, and at that point, just take the normal bolter aggressors and a different chapter.
I had higher hopes for Salamanders after seeing what Iron Hands got. It seems they'll be really popular for people that like smash captains though. A t6 smash captain is going to be that much harder to budge.
Make him Gravis for T7, and take the relic for -1 to wound him.
Geeze, he has the literal stat-line of a tank.
Dreadnought. Salamander Dreadnought Captain. Didn't they have something like that in the past?
Not a Captain I don’t think, but there is a Forgeworld character dread for Salamanders. It’s on my list of things to convert, but I need to modify a Redemptor fist to be right handed.
Those leaks look pretty heavily edited to my, albeit untrained, eye. Like point costs are missing for some reason and no primaris character unless I missed something. Also the big old clickbait watermark on the images makes me somewhat suspicious.
Dracarys wrote: Those leaks look pretty heavily edited to my, albeit untrained, eye. Like point costs are missing for some reason and no primaris character unless I missed something. Also the big old clickbait watermark on the images makes me somewhat suspicious.
Bob, the guy from War of Sigmar who posted them, said he was sent the images and that he personally removed the point costs.
Dracarys wrote: That doesn't make me less suspicious. Why include those calculations and scrub the point costs from the images?
I'm with you there. The biggest red flag for me is that lack of Primaris Character. It wouldn't fit the pattern. Iron Hands got an all new Character just to fit the bill. While I'd like it to be Vulkan He'stan, I guess it would be ok to be some rando-Captain, but the photo mysterious cuts off before seeing if Ardax has the Primaris keyword (though he likely does considering his increased W & A)
Because This is most likely a playtest version and GW could trace it back to the leaker if they knew that this was playtest version 3 when the pets of such and such were x.
GW also puts things in their playtest versions that allow them to see if a specific set get leaked. Could be a deliberate typo, etc
Mr.T wrote: First leaked Salamander character got 6W - je must be primaris imo
he's a new character he'll be primaris for sure.
But why? Iron Hands got a new primaris character because they had no named character before. Salamanders only have Vulkan, so he should have been Primarized. Just like Shrike and Khan.
It may well be as simple as GW looking at Vulkan and saying "ya know the minis aged so well I don't think we can really improve him much by making him Primaris"
BrianDavion wrote: It may well be as simple as GW looking at Vulkan and saying "ya know the minis aged so well I don't think we can really improve him much by making him Primaris"
However good the model is, it's 'Fine'cast, so sooner or later it will either be replaced with plastic or quietly go away.
BrianDavion wrote: It may well be as simple as GW looking at Vulkan and saying "ya know the minis aged so well I don't think we can really improve him much by making him Primaris"
However good the model is, it's 'Fine'cast, so sooner or later it will either be replaced with plastic or quietly go away.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm surprised they aren't making him Primaris. Him and Kantor.
Because sculptors just made a different mini. Simples.
Sculptors at GW do their thing. Making the rules and background match isn't their job. And people who do those jobs are quite a bit further down the foodchain at GW.
A t7 gravis captain has 7 wounds and a 4+ invul. At -1 to wound, anything s8 or better will wound him on 4's.
While tough, he only has a power fist and a power sword with slightly more damage. That's it, and you're spending your relic and warlord trait to make him more survivable, but not more killy.
A smash captain will destroy him the same way a smash captain destroys anything, and will probably be cheaper in points, more mobile, and more flexible. A smash captain taking those relics or warlord traits will be wasted because you want relics and warlord traits that increase his damage, not his defense.
While it makes for some amazing fluffy units and super tough stuff, I don't see it changing the meta at all.
drbored wrote: A t7 gravis captain has 7 wounds and a 4+ invul. At -1 to wound, anything s8 or better will wound him on 4's.
While tough, he only has a power fist and a power sword with slightly more damage. That's it, and you're spending your relic and warlord trait to make him more survivable, but not more killy.
A smash captain will destroy him the same way a smash captain destroys anything, and will probably be cheaper in points, more mobile, and more flexible. A smash captain taking those relics or warlord traits will be wasted because you want relics and warlord traits that increase his damage, not his defense.
While it makes for some amazing fluffy units and super tough stuff, I don't see it changing the meta at all.
That’s why you also use the Stratagem that lets him have two Warlord Traits so he can also be Strength 6, swinging around a Strength 12 Powerfist!
Jidmah wrote: I've stopped taking advice for playing orks from marine players at some point during 5th.
Personally, I love it when they enter an orkz thread, or the ork tactics thread and tell us that our factions is OP and all of our things are OP and Burna Boyz need a nerf, and ask "Why aren't you playing a stompa since they are so OP?"
Only thing stupid about it is anyone complaining about it. you're basicly spending warlord traits to make a tank out of your gunlines anti-charge deterrant.
Ork players putting the waaaaahhhh in waaagh since 2005, it seems csm players have been replaced in the role of cluttering every thread with how bad there army is.
Although I have to agree the salamanders look a little lacklustre if those leaks labelled click bait are real.
I wouldn’t say “bad” at the rumoured 140pts, but, more… Difficult to use.
Essentially, this guy just be there to give your Cent Devs or Repulors +1 BS and re-roll 1’s. The Grav-Gun (which might be a link to Hellfuries maybe?) is interesting, as is the x3 Thunderhammer, but, at 5” move, he’s going to be nothing more than a charge deterrent and never really use them until late game.
Judging from the usual washed-up photos that bring any $50 phone to shame, it's probably GW leaking them anyways.
The Spikey Bits noted something relatively interesting - BT Characters are missing from the Sons of Dorn book, so the BT vs Orks box might be true after all.
Well, this makes three Finecast Characters that had someone without a model released instead. Tor Garadon has been a part of the Imperial Fists fluff for three editions now, though. I am just saddened that the Crimson Fists won't have a Primaris Special Character. And that their one character is ridiculously costed compared to the other Chapter Masters.
But, no BT characters means meat it back on the menu for this rumor.
I find these new primaris special characters annoying. They're tied to a specific chapter and thus cannot be used with successors and as generic primaris characters have gak for options you cannot use the models as similarly equipped generics.
Yes it is. Generic minimarine characters have a ton of gear options, so you usually can equip one same way than a special character model. With primaris you cannot.
Yes it is. Generic minimarine characters have a ton of gear options, so you usually can equip one same way than a special character model. With primaris you cannot.
All the feedback I've heard is that a properly equipped Primaris Captain hits like a truck with the new codex, so I'm not sure where the fire is.
If you want a special snowflake character play a chapter with a special character.
That is awesome and now I can not unsee it. Captain Busey for the win!
If this is the artist I think it is he's openly admitted to using celebrities as "templates" for faces. He did an awesome primarch series and the Lion for example was definitely modeled off of Clint Eastwood.
Agreed. Don’t people call Imperial Fists Men of Stone? Maybe the artist misunderstood.
Anyway the rules are floating around the inter web and one thing that strikes me is: this guy is basically the same as Lysander. He’s a 5” move captain who is very tough and wields a high-strength, Damage 3 melee weapon. Lysander hits on a 2+ but has one less attack. He can teleport but he has no signum or grav gun.
This is fine I guess but if you have two special characters you sort of want them to do different things.
More importantly though, it looks like this means Vulkan, Lysander and (most importantly for me) Pedro are not getting new models or rules. Their costs are the same as in the downloadable pdf so I expect their rules are the same too.
Yes it is. Generic minimarine characters have a ton of gear options, so you usually can equip one same way than a special character model. With primaris you cannot.
All the feedback I've heard is that a properly equipped Primaris Captain hits like a truck with the new codex, so I'm not sure where the fire is.
If you want a special snowflake character play a chapter with a special character.
That is awesome and now I can not unsee it. Captain Busey for the win!
If this is the artist I think it is he's openly admitted to using celebrities as "templates" for faces. He did an awesome primarch series and the Lion for example was definitely modeled off of Clint Eastwood.
And mixed Busey and Lenno, to make Tor Garadon, Captain of the Imperial Fists and Insane Host of the Imperium's Favorite Late Night Talk Show.
Mandragola wrote: Agreed. Don’t people call Imperial Fists Men of Stone? Maybe the artist misunderstood.
Anyway the rules are floating around the inter web and one thing that strikes me is: this guy is basically the same as Lysander. He’s a 5” move captain who is very tough and wields a high-strength, Damage 3 melee weapon. Lysander hits on a 2+ but has one less attack. He can teleport but he has no signum or grav gun.
This is fine I guess but if you have two special characters you sort of want them to do different things.
More importantly though, it looks like this means Vulkan, Lysander and (most importantly for me) Pedro are not getting new models or rules. Their costs are the same as in the downloadable pdf so I expect their rules are the same too.
Vulkan He'stan didnt get primaris'd, that's Adrax Agatone.
Mandragola wrote: Agreed. Don’t people call Imperial Fists Men of Stone? Maybe the artist misunderstood.
Anyway the rules are floating around the inter web and one thing that strikes me is: this guy is basically the same as Lysander. He’s a 5” move captain who is very tough and wields a high-strength, Damage 3 melee weapon. Lysander hits on a 2+ but has one less attack. He can teleport but he has no signum or grav gun.
This is fine I guess but if you have two special characters you sort of want them to do different things.
More importantly though, it looks like this means Vulkan, Lysander and (most importantly for me) Pedro are not getting new models or rules. Their costs are the same as in the downloadable pdf so I expect their rules are the same too.
Vulkan He'stan didnt get primaris'd, that's Adrax Agatone.
I just had a horrible thought. What if He'stan and Lysander aren't getting Primaris models because they died in the process? I remember there being some fluff stating that some older marines don't make it through. I think even Calgar died in the process, but was revived.
It made sense to create a new Character for IH because they didn't have a named character before. UMs have loads of named characters, so it didn't make sense to give them MORE. But WS & RG only have their 1 named character and each of those got upgraded. Sallies and IF also each had 1 named character. So why aren't they following the pattern?
Galef wrote: I just had a horrible thought. What if He'stan and Lysander aren't getting Primaris models because they died in the process?
I remember there being some fluff stating that some older marines don't make it through. I think even Calgar died in the process, but was revived.
It made sense to create a new Character for IH because they didn't have a named character before. UMs have loads of named characters, so it didn't make sense to give them MORE.
But WS & RG only have their 1 named character and each of those got upgraded.
Sallies and IF also each had 1 named character. So why aren't they following the pattern?
Maybe because He'stan and Lysander are dead now?
-
There was a leak of the character point list along with the profile for the new imp guy and it had lysander listed. Also vulkan has been leaked with the new sallies guy stats. Obviously its a leak and requires salt but I doubt they are killing them off
Hahaha that imperial fist marine is amazing looking. Hes like your fat shlubby dad who's too lazy to hold his gun so he just stuck it on his backpack like "feth aiming Im tired where's the clicker???"
Albino Squirrel wrote: Wow, that Imperial Fist looks really stupid with the gun just slapped on his backpack. Looks like my earliest attempts to do conversions.
Interesting conclusion to draw from low-res art, that has big chunks of it cut from view and not the actual model kit final version.
Galef wrote: I just had a horrible thought. What if He'stan and Lysander aren't getting Primaris models because they died in the process?
I remember there being some fluff stating that some older marines don't make it through. I think even Calgar died in the process, but was revived.
It made sense to create a new Character for IH because they didn't have a named character before. UMs have loads of named characters, so it didn't make sense to give them MORE.
But WS & RG only have their 1 named character and each of those got upgraded.
Sallies and IF also each had 1 named character. So why aren't they following the pattern?
Maybe because He'stan and Lysander are dead now?
-
Well, technically speaking all upgraded marines died. Its a necessary part of the process to die and be brought back as a Primaris.
But you might be onto something. Then again, it may just be fluff reasons. As Forgefather, Vulkan's weapons and armour would be passed down to his successor, who could be primaris. Lysander's hammer is likewise to be passed down. But, experience is something that cannot be passed on. Perhaps Vulkan considered his knowledge, resources and contacts too valuable to the hunt of the relics to risk in a procedure with a 61% chance of failure. Likewise, Lysander represents one of the oldest Astartes in existence, second perhaps to Commander Dante. His knowledge of past centuries, of warfare, and as an icon to his fellow Astartes, was probably too much to risk. OR, it could just be in defiance of Guilliman, as his Primarch Dorn did before him.
I think this is just giving in to the PC thought police and believing that the people who play their game need more representation in different body shapes and sizes. How can That One Player In Every Club self-actualize if he can't have models that represent him in the space marine range?
The only other fat pride representation we have in game is Nurgle, which brings up the VERY problematic stereotype of people who don't have thin privilege as "unhealthy" and "bad smelling."
And also Beastclaw Raiders, which plays into the other harmful stereotype that the gravitationally challenged never leave their motorized scooters and that they eat people.
Galef wrote: I'm all for new named characters, but it would be nice if there was consistency to upgrade all existing one with new plastic models, Primaris or not
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Yeah that's my thinking. For Kantor I just have this short guy whose model came out ages ago. At least give me a Primaris character.
So, that IF character seems a bit conflicted. Some useful shooting buffs, but he also wants to be a smash captain, yet lacks any capacity at all to actually get in there.
All these support pieces seem odd for space marines.
I'm very happy with this Salamander. More so the fact I will finally have rules for my converted Primaris Captain, but I'll have to give him a flamer now...
I don't much care for Tor's model. His face just looks off to me. If I ever get him it will be with a helmet over his mug. I also don't like how his left arm has nothing going on. Why is he not doing something with it?
We haven't seen unique upgrades for normal squads, just 'relics' that a Squad Leader can take.
The one that came out last winter. It has a piece that is straight up the Signum Array like what is on Tor's back. I would love to see it as Special Issue Wargear, at the very least.
Looks like this solves 2 rumor engines. The flaming thing on the salamander's back was from last Dec and the signum array was around page 30 of the rumor engine thread hear on dakka. Can't believe this guy has been around for 9 months...what else is just waiting around in storage at GW?!?
Make that 3 solves...the flamer gun tip from back in January.
We haven't seen unique upgrades for normal squads, just 'relics' that a Squad Leader can take.
The one that came out last winter. It has a piece that is straight up the Signum Array like what is on Tor's back. I would love to see it as Special Issue Wargear, at the very least.
You mean the upgrade frame that they never released because of the upside down Fist emblem?
We haven't seen unique upgrades for normal squads, just 'relics' that a Squad Leader can take.
The one that came out last winter. It has a piece that is straight up the Signum Array like what is on Tor's back. I would love to see it as Special Issue Wargear, at the very least.
You mean the upgrade frame that they never released because of the upside down Fist emblem?
Not upside down, inverted.
But yes, hopefully they remade the models and got that right.
Azreal13 wrote: Why are people calling it "The Salamander" when it's clearly Vulkan?
It's not Vulcan man they give his name at the start of the video."Adrax Agatone" (as leaked by other sources with the datasheets).
Jesus. So it isn't enough to conceptually Primarisise an existing character, they give it a different name and rules to really make sure people buy it.
I don't watch the videos as the amount of cheese in them might make me lactose intolerant.
boundless08 wrote:I'm very happy with this Salamander. More so the fact I will finally have rules for my converted Primaris Captain, but I'll have to give him a flamer now...
Spoiler:
Nice Salamander you've got there. I'm finishing a Flesh Tearer Primaris right now and I gave him a cloak and shoulder pad wrappings made from the Dark Elves Corsair kit, to represent the Megafaune they're hunting for sport (and the cold ones and Carnosaur I'm totally equiping with guns and rockets and let my nephews play Flesh Tearers Dino Riders with ). I originally planned to use an Aggressor head, but I like yours better. I've seen it before can't place it right now, what kit is that from?
The Salamander from GW looks good. Not OMG-must-have, but good. If I had any Primaris left for another Kill Team I'd do Salamanders.
The IF dude...no. Not only the Duke Nukem face, but the pose is meh and the weapons look kinda rough. Pass.
Now do a bigger Pedro Kantor, please. Or not, I converted a dude to be a possible "younger Kantor" stand-in and like him a lot, so it's not THAT important.
Edit: Derp, it's the Minimarine gasmask head, of course. I think I don't have one of those, though. Bummer.
Azreal13 wrote: Why are people calling it "The Salamander" when it's clearly Vulkan?
It's not Vulcan man they give his name at the start of the video."Adrax Agatone" (as leaked by other sources with the datasheets).
Jesus. So it isn't enough to conceptually Primarisise an existing character, they give it a different name and rules to really make sure people buy it.
I don't watch the videos as the amount of cheese in them might make me lactose intolerant.
Captain Agatone is an established character in Salamander BL novels.
Details I noticed and like:
-Adrax's shin plate are solid, including the knees. We haven't seen this for Primaris.
-His hammer is rounded, which gives it a more 'artisan" look compared to the blocky, unrefined look of the square hammers
Azreal13 wrote: Why are people calling it "The Salamander" when it's clearly Vulkan?
It's not Vulcan man they give his name at the start of the video."Adrax Agatone" (as leaked by other sources with the datasheets).
Jesus. So it isn't enough to conceptually Primarisise an existing character, they give it a different name and rules to really make sure people buy it.
I don't watch the videos as the amount of cheese in them might make me lactose intolerant.
Captain Agatone is an established character in Salamander BL novels.
Which doesn't much alter the fact that his miniature looks remarkably like you might expect a Primarisised Vulkan to look, except with a different name and different rules, to make sure people buy it.
Which doesn't much alter the fact that his miniature looks remarkably like you might expect a Primarisised Vulkan to look, except with a different name and different rules, to make sure people buy it.
I literally do not understand what you're complaining about.
Azreal13 wrote: Why are people calling it "The Salamander" when it's clearly Vulkan?
It's not Vulcan man they give his name at the start of the video."Adrax Agatone" (as leaked by other sources with the datasheets).
Jesus. So it isn't enough to conceptually Primarisise an existing character, they give it a different name and rules to really make sure people buy it.
I don't watch the videos as the amount of cheese in them might make me lactose intolerant.
Captain Agatone is an established character in Salamander BL novels.
Which doesn't much alter the fact that his miniature looks remarkably like you might expect a Primarisised Vulkan to look, except with a different name and different rules, to make sure people buy it.
I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And completely different equipment.
Malibu Stacey would have got the new hat regardles.
Azreal13 wrote: Why are people calling it "The Salamander" when it's clearly Vulkan?
It's not Vulcan man they give his name at the start of the video."Adrax Agatone" (as leaked by other sources with the datasheets).
Jesus. So it isn't enough to conceptually Primarisise an existing character, they give it a different name and rules to really make sure people buy it.
I don't watch the videos as the amount of cheese in them might make me lactose intolerant.
Captain Agatone is an established character in Salamander BL novels.
Which doesn't much alter the fact that his miniature looks remarkably like you might expect a Primarisised Vulkan to look, except with a different name and different rules, to make sure people buy it.
What?! Don't tell me you haven't heard of Captain Hotter McFlamer-Toastie?! Leader of the Sriracha Demons and saviour of Epsilon-Omega Prime 18? Destroyer of the dreaded Chaos Mild Lime Mayo Marines?! Ally to the Nandos Regiment?!
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
So? Are they not allowed to make new special characters?
I mean personally I don't like special characters, I'd prefer generic ones that anyone could use, but whether the model is called Salamander Jake or Salamander Steve hardly matters.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
So? Are they not allowed to make new special characters?
I mean personally I don't like special characters, I'd prefer generic ones that anyone could use, but whether the model is called Salamander Jake or Salamander Steve hardly matters.
The thing that stinks is that Garadon has some really neat rules I would like to make use of for my Crimson Fists. I just wish every Chapter Tactic from C:SM got a model. We are cool enough for our own tactic, but not our own new model? It is what it is, I guess.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
So? Are they not allowed to make new special characters?
I mean personally I don't like special characters, I'd prefer generic ones that anyone could use, but whether the model is called Salamander Jake or Salamander Steve hardly matters.
Yes, but make them new not tepid rehashes of existing concepts.
The fact that the likes of Shrike and Calgar got full blooded resculpts whereas the Fists and Sallies got rebadged B-Listers just reeks of "focus group,' which is what I find objectionable.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The thing that stinks is that Garadon has some really neat rules I would like to make use of for my Crimson Fists. I just wish every Chapter Tactic from C:SM got a model. We are cool enough for our own tactic, but not our own new model? It is what it is, I guess.
Yep. And it is even worse for custom chapters. I really like these models, but I really have no use for them as I can't even equip the generic characters similarly.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The thing that stinks is that Garadon has some really neat rules I would like to make use of for my Crimson Fists. I just wish every Chapter Tactic from C:SM got a model. We are cool enough for our own tactic, but not our own new model? It is what it is, I guess.
Yep. And it is even worse for custom chapters. I really like these models, but I really have no use for them as I can't even equip the generic characters similarly.
Exactly. I wish there was a Stratagem or something that let you put a First Founding Character in a Successor Chapter (they would be required to use the Inheritors of the Primarch Chapter Tactic). Have it give them their Warlord Trait too, just so it isn't a huge waste.
Yes, but make them new not tepid rehashes of existing concepts.
The fact that the likes of Shrike and Calgar got full blooded resculpts whereas the Fists and Sallies got rebadged B-Listers just reeks of "focus group,' which is what I find objectionable.
I still don't get what the problem is. What does it matter what the character is called or whether he has a hammer or a spear? One could argue that making them new characters is better, as now people can use their old minimarine characters alongside with these new characters. You can't do that with the updated ones.
Yes, but make them new not tepid rehashes of existing concepts.
The fact that the likes of Shrike and Calgar got full blooded resculpts whereas the Fists and Sallies got rebadged B-Listers just reeks of "focus group,' which is what I find objectionable.
What I find objectionable is rewriting history to pretend that Shrike was popular.
It is strange the way these things are going, but hey at least Salamanders are keeping Vulkan.
Garadon is rocking a Power Brass Knuckles Fist and that's something that just tickles me. How hard you think it would be to chop it off for a different model?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Garadon is rocking a Power Brass Knuckles Fist and that's something that just tickles me. How hard you think it would be to chop it off for a different model?
It is almost assuredly its own bit, so I would think it would require minimal skill. I definitely see them more as the hammer pistons like what make up the Big O's arms. Hence the reason for his x3 Str 3D fist.
He seems like he might be easy enough to convert into a regular Gravis Captain. Just put a Power Sword hand on the left arm, attach a bolt pistol or something to the Power Fist, and remove the Grav Gun.
His Grav Gun should have been a Combi-Grav, to be honest. It would have been much more fitting.
Onto the models, I like the both to a degree. Salamander, little wrong with, good all around.
Chip Hazard? I like him, but there are things I don't. Compared to the Iron Hand, whose Heavy Bolter looks like thought was putting into mounting it, Chip's Grav-gun looks glued on like an afterthought. Also on the Grav-gun and comparisons with the Iron Hand, the Heavy Bolter is a Relic that does 2D per shot and synergizes with pretty much everything the Iron Hands are shown to do. The Grav-gun is not a Relic, nor is it Master Crafted, its a plain old Grav-Gun. It doesnt synergize with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic and we wont know til next month if it does anything with their Special Doctrine. It gets +1 Damage from his Siege Captain rule, so 1d3+1 vs 3+ saves, I guess that is something.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And completely different equipment.
Malibu Stacey would have got the new hat regardles.
He’Stan’s use of three of the relics of Vulkan is kind of central to him. You’d know that if you did have any dog at all in the fight, or even knew the rudiments of the kinds of dogs involved in the fight. It’s not Vulkan He’Stan. No Salamanders player would have looked at it and thought that it is. Only people on the outside, commenting from ignorance, would have thought that might be He’Stan.
stinkyjunk wrote: Looks like this solves 2 rumor engines. The flaming thing on the salamander's back was from last Dec and the signum array was around page 30 of the rumor engine thread hear on dakka. Can't believe this guy has been around for 9 months...what else is just waiting around in storage at GW?!?
Make that 3 solves...the flamer gun tip from back in January.
Likely been there somewhat longer than 9 months. GW doesn't operate on the pants with short schedules. Lead times are long. Even if all aren't decade long like jetbikes were it's still year or two progress.
That Imperial fist character is only slightly better then that ultra marine standard FW released last year
Holy crap even the base detracts from the guy.
The fact that his power fist needs knuckle dusters and a vacuum cleaner hose is pretty hilarious too. I guess the concept of a power fist wasn't quite over the top enough It probably didn't help making the opposing hand as small as they could and with nothing to do. He's a primaris version of this guy.
With his jaw line that dude could swallow that hand in its armor.
Red Corsair wrote: That Imperial fist character is only slightly better then that ultra marine standard FW released last year
Holy crap even the base detracts from the guy.
The fact that his power fist needs knuckle dusters and a vacuum cleaner hose is pretty hilarious too. I guess the concept of a power fist wasn't quite over the top enough It probably didn't help making the opposing hand as small as they could and with nothing to do. He's a primaris version of this guy.
The knuckle duster seems to be what makes it a Sx3 power fist.
I've got to say, I love the Imperial Fist guy. The artwork especially, I love the bulkier, dumpier look of the Gravis armor with all his extra chunk. It makes Gravis armor seem like something that could replace Terminator armor, which the current models and rules most certainly do not. The model captures a lot of that, but I wish the minis were closer to the artwork in terms of the proportions between his head and body. I really like how big the neck area/collar is in the artwork, which again helps sell Gravis armor as a massive suit befitting a siege master. I am somewhat tickled by the idea of his little command gauntlet console thing, because I love the idea of him having to push buttons with his power fist hand.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not coming complaining about anything, I have no dog in the fight and I would never have bought the model in any guise.
But it isn't a hard concept to follow is it? Rather than reinevent an existing model, like they did with Calgar, they essentially resculpted them but gave them an arbitrary alternative name. So we don't have Vulkan and Lysander we have not Vulkan and not Lysander.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And completely different equipment.
Malibu Stacey would have got the new hat regardles.
He’Stan’s use of three of the relics of Vulkan is kind of central to him. You’d know that if you did have any dog at all in the fight, or even knew the rudiments of the kinds of dogs involved in the fight. It’s not Vulkan He’Stan. No Salamanders player would have looked at it and thought that it is. Only people on the outside, commenting from ignorance, would have thought that might be He’Stan.
Lol, nerve struck?
I do know what used to be central to all sorts of characters, kicking around since Rogue Trader tends to do that.
But I also remember when the Primarchs were something consigned to history 10,000 years before the contemporary time of the setting, so forgive me for pretty much disregarding anything that differs slightly, or even significantly, from any established lore.
The imperial fist dude is grade A comedy. The model's head looks like it was cut from soap, and somehow the artwork is even better, he's got expression of a slightly senile old man who doesn't remember putting the armor on.
The Salamanders guy is very nearly named Adrax Earthshade. I actually just went and typed "aga" into google translate to see if it meant "earth" in some weird language.
It doesn't seem to, but I did learn that Agatone is Swedish for "Agatone". You rock, Google.
Also the Imperial Fist guy has those smart watch controls on his left wrist, nothing in his left hand, and a huge power fist on his right hand. How does that work then?
Yes, but make them new not tepid rehashes of existing concepts.
The fact that the likes of Shrike and Calgar got full blooded resculpts whereas the Fists and Sallies got rebadged B-Listers just reeks of "focus group,' which is what I find objectionable.
Dude, Adrax as is about as far from He'stan as they could go with a Salamander character. I think you would be making the same arguments about any new character they came up with.
He has a bare head, a hammer(very likely his custom hammer right out of the books), and he has a hand flamer.
He'stan has a crested helmet, a relic spear, and a relic heavy flamer guantlet.
They need new characters. You can't two re-imagine 40k Marines but continue on with EVERY SINGLE character that existed before. Eventually some of these guys are going to have to die. (Sicarius first hopefully)
I love He'stan and still have his bare metal model waiting for paint (I have been to afraid to botch him up to paint him yet). But we need new characters.
Mandragola wrote: Also the Imperial Fist guy has those smart watch controls on his left wrist, nothing in his left hand, and a huge power fist on his right hand. How does that work then?
Mandragola wrote: Also the Imperial Fist guy has those smart watch controls on his left wrist, nothing in his left hand, and a huge power fist on his right hand. How does that work then?
Carefully, brother. Very carefully.
Do you think that primaris enhancements help with that?
Glad to see that the Primaris marines didn't 'cure' the Dark Skin and glowing orange eyes of the Salamanders chapter. I'd love it if Hestan, and Xavier also got primarisized. Chapters other than the UltraMarines, Space Woofs, and the Angels need more named heroes!
Mandragola wrote: The Salamanders guy is very nearly named Adrax Earthshade. I actually just went and typed "aga" into google translate to see if it meant "earth" in some weird language.
It doesn't seem to, but I did learn that Agatone is Swedish for "Agatone". You rock, Google.
Also the Imperial Fist guy has those smart watch controls on his left wrist, nothing in his left hand, and a huge power fist on his right hand. How does that work then?
Perhaps the smart watch is a device used to control the MEGAFIST he's rocking? Using a number of set hand movements and winks he's able to jab, uppercut and hook.
skullking wrote: Glad to see that the Primaris marines didn't 'cure' the Dark Skin and glowing orange eyes of the Salamanders chapter. I'd love it if Hestan, and Xavier also got primarisized. Chapters other than the UltraMarines, Space Woofs, and the Angels need more named heroes!
<- That's meant to be ravenguard...
In the fluff is Xavier still kicking? I remember a dreadnought quote talking about how he missed Xavier. That model was awesome. That whole minidex with the Salamanders, Black Templars, Speedfreaks and IG regiment was awesome...
taking a guess as to why Lysander and Vulkan Hestan didn't get new models I'm going to guess there are two reasons, Lysander didn't get it because Gravis is NOT the actual terminator plate, and GW has that planned for the third wave of primartis stuff, thus they don't want to jump the gun, the most important thing would the the deep strike, that gravis lacks. So GW may be saving Lysander for later.
as for Vulkan Hestan, his NAME may be an issue. if GW has a plan to bring back the Primarch Vulkan sometime in the next ten years having two chars named Vulkan may be a problem so GW might decide to keep him finecast so they can retire the character to legends once Primarch Vulkan returns.
skullking wrote: Glad to see that the Primaris marines didn't 'cure' the Dark Skin and glowing orange eyes of the Salamanders chapter. I'd love it if Hestan, and Xavier also got primarisized. Chapters other than the UltraMarines, Space Woofs, and the Angels need more named heroes!
<- That's meant to be ravenguard...
In the fluff is Xavier still kicking? I remember a dreadnought quote talking about how he missed Xavier. That model was awesome. That whole minidex with the Salamanders, Black Templars, Speedfreaks and IG regiment was awesome...
UK White Dwarf #266 wrote:Chaplain Xavier was killed leading an attack on a Dark Eldar raiding force on the planet Drykeena. Mortally wounded by blades several times over, Xavier refused to fall and fought on until all his foes were lying dead around him. Only then did he allow himself to sink to the ground, where his wounds finally overcame him. His body was laid to rest on Nocturne and his name is still spoken with reverence by the Salamanders.
I like some aspects of the IF guy. It's ludicrously cartoonish, some of the details are wildly out of proportion (cables as think as a wrist, Styrofoam cloak etc), way too cluttered (I loved the Psycannon on the old =][= Covenant model, not super keen on this one), and once again GW have gone with the "The more crap stuffed on a model the better" approach (he almost had a clean line on his left forearm but someone noticed just in time and they were able to stick that auspex thing one there). Having said all that there's enough that I like.
Mandragola wrote: The Salamanders guy is very nearly named Adrax Earthshade. I actually just went and typed "aga" into google translate to see if it meant "earth" in some weird language.
Agate is a gemstone classically associated with volcanic rock and thus a great thing to base a Salamander's name on.
Ok there is joking, but then there is being plain hurtful.
I agree that the grav gun looks tacked on. Needs a mounting arm of some sort. I do like the chip hazard face and knuckle buster though. And they are both probably on 2 sprues since they include molded bases.
as for Vulkan Hestan, his NAME may be an issue. if GW has a plan to bring back the Primarch Vulkan sometime in the next ten years having two chars named Vulkan may be a problem so GW might decide to keep him finecast so they can retire the character to legends once Primarch Vulkan returns.
Interesting point! Yeah, that would be confusing for most. Plus, if Vulkan (the primarch) comes back, he'll take all of Hestan's cool weapons (cause they're his really).
skullking wrote: Glad to see that the Primaris marines didn't 'cure' the Dark Skin and glowing orange eyes of the Salamanders chapter. I'd love it if Hestan, and Xavier also got primarisized. Chapters other than the UltraMarines, Space Woofs, and the Angels need more named heroes!
<- That's meant to be ravenguard...
In the fluff is Xavier still kicking? I remember a dreadnought quote talking about how he missed Xavier. That model was awesome. That whole minidex with the Salamanders, Black Templars, Speedfreaks and IG regiment was awesome...
UK White Dwarf #266 wrote:Chaplain Xavier was killed leading an attack on a Dark Eldar raiding force on the planet Drykeena. Mortally wounded by blades several times over, Xavier refused to fall and fought on until all his foes were lying dead around him. Only then did he allow himself to sink to the ground, where his wounds finally overcame him. His body was laid to rest on Nocturne and his name is still spoken with reverence by the Salamanders.
That makes sense. I still love the model, with his cool rock thunderhammer & scaley cloak. But yeah, might as well create a new guy. I know there's at least a figure for the Salamander's character dreadnaught (through forgeworld), I'm guessing some of the other founding chapters have other characters in forgeworld too (post heresy ones, to be more clear, I'm sure they all have a bunch of heresy boyz).
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Garadon is rocking a Power Brass Knuckles Fist and that's something that just tickles me. How hard you think it would be to chop it off for a different model?
It is almost assuredly its own bit, so I would think it would require minimal skill. I definitely see them more as the hammer pistons like what make up the Big O's arms. Hence the reason for his x3 Str 3D fist.
He seems like he might be easy enough to convert into a regular Gravis Captain. Just put a Power Sword hand on the left arm, attach a bolt pistol or something to the Power Fist, and remove the Grav Gun.
His Grav Gun should have been a Combi-Grav, to be honest. It would have been much more fitting.
If it is indeed a separate Bit, I'm most certainly gonna pick up the kit just for that alone.
The Imperial Fist has the chiseled features that are both as sensible as block of wood and that of a tough as nails guy that is cool under pressure that really captures the Imperial Fists. As for the suped-up powerfist, the only thing that could make it better for me is if it was rocket powered too. I do agree that the grav-gun could have probably had a better mounting solution.
The Salamander character I think is even better. The cabling in particular has a nice flowing look to it. I think the hammer looks a little too reasonable for 40k, but not so reasonable as to be an issue.
Overall, I am really glad that they are starting to generate new Characters rather than re-hash old ones. If I remember correctly, it has been like 200 years since the setting started moving again. Even if GW doesn't want to leave old character models out in the cold succumbing to one battle or the next at very least there can be new heroes on the rise to make the setting feel like it has actually moved forward more than a few spurts and sputters in the tiniest fraction of the galaxy. I kinda hope every faction gets a couple of brand new heroes with new exploits far more than just re-using ones whose story should probably be moving into myth and legend at this point.
I will never understand people that claims X special character is just Y special character with different gear.
Like people asking for Shrike to don't have a jump pack and claws. Like... 40k Special Characters are what they are because their equipement. Personality and traits come after.
Calgar without double power fists wouldn't be Calgar. Just like He'stan without his spear wouldnbt he He'stan or Azrael without sword, helmet and combiplasma.
When the GW preview said "Tor Garadon returns!" all I could think was "Who?".
All those resin characters GW could'a replaced, and we get Fisty McLargeHuge.
He was originally from Sentinels of Terra, where he was a 3rd Company Tactical Sergeant and eventually elevated to the level of Captain. He appeared again in the Gathering Storm as the commander of the Phalanx.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
40K fluff has always been comic book level nonsense, it's only your nostalgia filter that makes you think otherwise.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
40K fluff has always been comic book level nonsense, it's only your nostalgia filter that makes you think otherwise.
There are good novels out there. Gathering Storm was not one of those, neither was Dark Imperium.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
Now, I won't argue with your first statement. They had Garadon as the sole Captain left on the Phalanx, the literal biggest ship in the Imperium and Chapter Monastery of a First Founding Chapter. Because that makes a lick of sense.
And instead of turning existing characters into a Chad Marine, they made new ones and left the other ones in place (and those other ones ARE a big deal), so this isn't exactly a bad thing.
Kirasu wrote: Id just like to know why poor Lysander wasn't picked for the Gift of Cawl (who is better than the Emperor in all ways, apparently)!
I really, really hope that the reason is that there actually will eventually be a primaris terminator armour separate from the gravis and they're saving him for that.
Crimson wrote: So H.B.M.C is now complaining about the Primaris not replacing the old marines?
More lamenting the continued existence of FineCost minis. Lysander would'a been a great new mini in Termy armour. That ain't Primaris.
And I've always found the Vulkan mini to be horribly designed and overly busy. A second go on that could have yielded a great result (or another Shrike, so who knows?).
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Ok, let me revise. Anybody who has been pulled out of GW's arse less than 5 years ago isn't a big deal.
You’re kind of on the edge of having a self-important point with Tor Garadon (6 years old), but Agatone goes back 10. Not that you care, you’re always right in your own estimation.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Ok, let me revise. Anybody who has been pulled out of GW's arse less than 5 years ago isn't a big deal.
You’re kind of on the edge of having a self-important point with Tor Garadon (6 years old), but Agatone goes back 10. Not that you care, you’re always right in your own estimation.
Look, rein it in. I'm too old and I've been kicking around this board too long to fall for your attempt at needling. Argue the point without getting personal or you'll just get yourself reported.
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
40K fluff has always been comic book level nonsense, it's only your nostalgia filter that makes you think otherwise.
There are good novels out there. Gathering Storm was not one of those, neither was Dark Imperium.
Nor were the Soul Drinkers novels, Dawn of War novels, and countless other old Black Library stories. Age has nothing to do with being good or bad.
Galef wrote:Details I noticed and like:
-Adrax's shin plate are solid, including the knees. We haven't seen this for Primaris.
-His hammer is rounded, which gives it a more 'artisan" look compared to the blocky, unrefined look of the square hammers
Azreal13 wrote: If you have to explain who he is to a grey beard like HBMC or me, he most assuredly isn't.
Or HBMC is a little out of touch with the fluff from the past five years?
Not exactly surprising considering most of the fluff in the last 5 years has been god awful comic book level nonsense :p Anyway, he's not a big deal because he never had a model.
40K fluff has always been comic book level nonsense, it's only your nostalgia filter that makes you think otherwise.
I don’t know that I super care for the Salamanders guy due to how overwrought his armor is. Like he almost doesn’t look like a Primaris or share a lot of their design elements other than the hips.
Nostromodamus wrote:How does the fisty bloke work is pipboy with that huge hand?
Via the neurological connection that all Space Marines have to their armour? Ie, controls it with his mind and the screen is just for visual readouts.
Galef wrote:Details I noticed and like:
-Adrax's shin plate are solid, including the knees. We haven't seen this for Primaris.
-His hammer is rounded, which gives it a more 'artisan" look compared to the blocky, unrefined look of the square hammers
I noticed these things too, and I really like the design of the armour. You can see the solid shinplate, even with the Primaris "lip," which is very very reminiscent of the Mk6 Corvus armour. You can also see the chestpiece with the cabling and central vent that is again, very reminiscent of Corvus armour
Solid shin plate is part of what I Don’t like about it, Because none of the other Primaris have it. Different shins, different abdomen, different chest, different shoulders, no helmet, he’s just Too different from the baseline Primaris design cues imho.
AduroT wrote: Solid shin plate is part of what I Don’t like about it, Because none of the other Primaris have it. Different shins, different abdomen, different chest, different shoulders, no helmet, he’s just Too different from the baseline Primaris design cues imho.
That would likely be a deliberate design choice to accentuate the artisan nature of Salamander's equipment.
AduroT wrote: Solid shin plate is part of what I Don’t like about it, Because none of the other Primaris have it. Different shins, different abdomen, different chest, different shoulders, no helmet, he’s just Too different from the baseline Primaris design cues imho.
That would likely be a deliberate design choice to accentuate the artisan nature of Salamander's equipment.
Which would be cool if it was a few pieces, rather than the 90% different armor than every other Salamander.
I have a crazy theory, that’s probably already been mentioned, but I think that Vulkan not getting a model is because he’s gunna die and the Primarch Vulkan is going to come back and take his relics back.
Tiberius501 wrote: I have a crazy theory, that’s probably already been mentioned, but I think that Vulkan not getting a model is because he’s gunna die and the Primarch Vulkan is going to come back and take his relics back.
Of course it's possible, but it's also possible they just wanted to give the salamanders a new character (in regards to the tabletop, not fluff). I think Adrax is easily the best of the new bunch, so either way I'm not complaining.
Vulkan might just return and want some of his stuff back, meaning He'stan shouldn't also have the same equipment and as such they're not releasing him as a primaris now just so they'll have to redo him in a couple of years.
Personally I'd love it if Vulkan came back but AFAIK the rumours about returning primarchs as of right now are Angron and Leman Russ. Vulkans amazing but hardly the most obvious one..
The fact that his armour is reminiscent of older marques could herald the implementation of the older marks being worn by Primaris marines and allowing GW to wipe out smol marines. Same can be said for the beaky helmets with RG.
Tiberius501 wrote: I have a crazy theory, that’s probably already been mentioned, but I think that Vulkan not getting a model is because he’s gunna die and the Primarch Vulkan is going to come back and take his relics back.
Unfortunately that is perfectly plausible.
I suggested it earlier and keep in mind I'm not even saying GW is PLANNING on doing it, but if they're even remotely considering it sometime in the next 10-15 years or so they might not want to commit to a plastic mini of another character named Vulkan to minimize confusion
I'm not sure what the point of contention is regarding Adrax Agatone getting a model. He's been part of the lore since Salamander was publishing in 2009, and he's not even a one hit wonder in that his character is developed throughout the events of Firedrake and Nocturne. In comparison, Vulkan He'Stan gets very limited screen-time in Firedrake (Where he mostly acts as a foil to the bellicose Veteran Sergeant Zek Tsu'Gan), and a bit of an expansion in a short story 'Forgefather'.
In terms of actual deeds done, Agatone is his own man - He'Stan is following a set path that countless Forgefathers have done before. He quite simply isn't a typical Salamander, even if he is revered by them. Even the relics he has 'recovered' are slightly odd, in that (Spear excluded) they're relics that weren't selected for preservation by the original Forgefather when Vulkan left for the Dropsite Massacre (Which is the origin of the 7, then somehow 9, Relics of Vulkan), and more to the point - Vulkan was actually wearing these when he got to Isstvan V, and curiously they were somehow not instantly vaporised when he got mulched by a tactical thermonuclear warhead (As the rest of his armour definitely was)...
In all, Agatone make sense to be Primarised - He's supported in the Codex and supported in the lore by books that most Salamanders fans will have read (Being as it's their own dedicated series). For those of you who are unfamiliar with Salamander's lore, one of the key points of the Salamander's Trilogy, and the follow up 'Rebirth' (That Nick Kyme seemed to drop like a ton of hot bricks...) is that Veteran Sergeant Zek Tsu'gan is very hot-blooded, and is forced to go renegade/mercenary for the Inquisition after being captured by Chaos and mind controlled. However, one of the few things to calm him is the presence of the Forgefather. One almost wonders if the abrupt hiatus of the next phase of Salamanders books coincided with the initiation of the Primaris stuff - and if He'Stan was destined to be killed off and replaced by 'Vulkan Tsu'Gan'. Hence, why we may not get a model for him...
Warpig1815 wrote:I'm not sure what the point of contention is regarding Adrax Agatone getting a model. He's been part of the lore since Salamander was publishing in 2009, and he's not even a one hit wonder in that his character is developed throughout the events of Firedrake and Nocturne. In comparison, Vulkan He'Stan gets very limited screen-time in Firedrake (Where he mostly acts as a foil to the bellicose Veteran Sergeant Zek Tsu'Gan), and a bit of an expansion in a short story 'Forgefather'.
In terms of actual deeds done, Agatone is his own man - He'Stan is following a set path that countless Forgefathers have done before. He quite simply isn't a typical Salamander, even if he is revered by them. Even the relics he has 'recovered' are slightly odd, in that (Spear excluded) they're relics that weren't selected for preservation by the original Forgefather when Vulkan left for the Dropsite Massacre (Which is the origin of the 7, then somehow 9, Relics of Vulkan), and more to the point - Vulkan was actually wearing these when he got to Isstvan V, and curiously they were somehow not instantly vaporised when he got mulched by a tactical thermonuclear warhead (As the rest of his armour definitely was)...
In all, Agatone make sense to be Primarised - He's supported in the Codex and supported in the lore by books that most Salamanders fans will have read (Being as it's their own dedicated series). For those of you who are unfamiliar with Salamander's lore, one of the key points of the Salamander's Trilogy, and the follow up 'Rebirth' (That Nick Kyme seemed to drop like a ton of hot bricks...) is that Veteran Sergeant Zek Tsu'gan is very hot-blooded, and is forced to go renegade/mercenary for the Inquisition after being captured by Chaos and mind controlled. However, one of the few things to calm him is the presence of the Forgefather. One almost wonders if the abrupt hiatus of the next phase of Salamanders books coincided with the initiation of the Primaris stuff - and if He'Stan was destined to be killed off and replaced by 'Vulkan Tsu'Gan'. Hence, why we may not get a model for him...
I think the contention doesn't lie with Adrax himself, but rather, why he and by extension, Garadon, are getting Primaris models instead of upgrading Vulkan and Lysander as has been the case with Khan, Shrike, Calgar and Tigurius thus far. As in, why not bring those old and Finecast models up to date with plastic minis. He sounds like a pretty cool character but I think people are just worried about their favourites like Vulkan vanishing.
On a side note, for anyone interested I did a quick mock-up of Tor Garadon with an Aggressor helmet and it improves the model significantly
The helmeted head from the IF upgrade sprue would probably work too. I wish every character came with a helmet. Worst case scenario you have the bit to use on another model.
Tor Garadon also needs new legs. The dragging foot is off putting. Because his body is in motion towards his leading foot while his back foot is pointing away from his movement like its not working right. I think the gravis captain legs or rather any gravis legs would of made the model look better.
Quasistellar wrote: Personally I think Tor Garadon is the perfect level of stupid.
Indeed. He's ridiculous and I love it.
And just like that, I realize why I like Marines in general, despite not really playing them. As a whole, they are the "perfect level of stupid"
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Agreed. It's one of the things I don't like about the Infiltrators and Incursors: they look like they're taking themselves too seriously. Bring me 87 skulls per model and chins the size of a tank any day of the week over that.
BrotherGecko wrote: Tor Garadon also needs new legs. The dragging foot is off putting. Because his body is in motion towards his leading foot while his back foot is pointing away from his movement like its not working right. I think the gravis captain legs or rather any gravis legs would of made the model look better.
He's not moving though, he's striking a pose, at least thats how it looks to me.
Quasistellar wrote: Personally I think Tor Garadon is the perfect level of stupid.
Indeed. He's ridiculous and I love it.
And just like that, I realize why I like Marines in general, despite not really playing them. As a whole, they are the "perfect level of stupid"
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Agreed. It's one of the things I don't like about the Infiltrators and Incursors: they look like they're taking themselves too seriously. Bring me 87 skulls per model and chins the size of a tank any day of the week over that.
It's quite funny to me how a person's views can change over time. I was introduced to GW through the Lord of the Rings game and didn't really want to play either Warhammer game because of how cartoony they looked at the time. But after over a decade of playing 40K, I realize that is part of the charm, so much so that when something comes out that seems a bit more "realistic" like Infiltrators/Incursors, I instantly don't like them
BrotherGecko wrote: Tor Garadon also needs new legs. The dragging foot is off putting. Because his body is in motion towards his leading foot while his back foot is pointing away from his movement like its not working right. I think the gravis captain legs or rather any gravis legs would of made the model look better.
He's not moving though, he's striking a pose, at least thats how it looks to me.
He's going cover behind a wall that only comes up to his knee. It's quintessentially warhammer.
They talk about adding in new model cards yet Ghaz is clear to see and is not updated in one of the pictures.
It’s a video game, yeah?
They can patch in new cards and artwork for existing cards. They could straight up kill Ghazzy in the fluff after this releases, then either remove him from the game or update his card’s fluff blurb to reflect his death if they wanted to.
They talk about adding in new model cards yet Ghaz is clear to see and is not updated in one of the pictures.
keep in mind this is a lisenced video game project (and is basicly a fremium cash grab game from what reviews I've read) so they proably don't get their info about upcoming products that much before we do. and they're not going to hold off a major char just because he's getting a new mini in a month, given patching the card would be, literally effortless.
BrotherGecko wrote: Tor Garadon also needs new legs. The dragging foot is off putting. Because his body is in motion towards his leading foot while his back foot is pointing away from his movement like its not working right. I think the gravis captain legs or rather any gravis legs would of made the model look better.
Most people push off the side of their foot when moving. I don’t know anyone who walks with both feet pointing forward at all times
That stratagem is utterly broken. There is no requirement that the unit using it must itself be targetable, so a an unit hiding behind a wall or a character can make all units withing 6" of them untargetable.
That stratagem is utterly broken. There is no requirement that the unit using it must itself be targetable, so a an unit hiding behind a wall or a character can make all units withing 6" of them untargetable.
Looks like we found the next bandwagon chapter for flavor of the month marine players!
Expect to see a lot of Salamanders lists with Company Veterans soon
That stratagem is utterly broken. There is no requirement that the unit using it must itself be targetable, so a an unit hiding behind a wall or a character can make all units withing 6" of them untargetable.
There is that "and visible to it" clause, which would imply that GW thought of that and tried to make it that you can't have immortal units. Of course, because they have a penchant for poor writing, it seems they forgot to add "or". It should really be "and/or visible to it". Expect it to be FAQ'd.
And/or makes no sense for this. If the closest unit is on the other side of a 3" wall, and/or would let you target them.
As written, you can shoot a unit if the target of the strategem is further away than the unit youre trying to shoot, while using normal shooting rules.
AduroT wrote: Remember when people were saying that the T7, -1 to wound Gravis Captain was pointless?
If you want to tie your army down to a guy moving 5" per turn, be my guest. He's got what, 7 wounds with a 3+/4++ save? Even at T7 -1 to wound he's going to go down pretty fast to concentrated fire, and you're bleeding command points if you're using this stratagem on him every turn.
Against S8+ weapons he's essentially a Knight but with only 7 wounds and less than half the mobility.
Voss wrote: And/or makes no sense for this. If the closest unit is on the other side of a 3" wall, and/or would let you target them.
As written, you can shoot a unit if the target of the strategem is further away than the unit youre trying to shoot, while using normal shooting rules.
Yeah, but it also means that if you hide the target of the stratagem, you've effectively made everything in a 6" bubble immortal for a shooting phase, as you can't shoot what you can't see. That is bs. Its like those stupid character targeting rules, where you can't shoot a character who's way out in the open because there's a unit of ratlings behind a small wall who's an inch closer to the firing unit. GW just doesn't think things through. There should at least be a clause where if the target of the stratagem is not visible to the firing unit, then targets can be selected as normal.
That’s not the problem with the wording. The problem is that it doesn’t specify you have to designate a unit that’s visible to an enemy unit.
Given that any part of a single miniature being visible counts as its entire unit being visible in 8th edition, the stratagem would be completely pointless if a protected unit being visible nullifies it’s effect. The parameters of being both the closest unit AND visible is fine as the intention is for whoever the designated target is (which will almost always be a min scout unit, min company vet unit, or techmarine) sacrificing themselves on the frontline and taking fire for their allies. They have to be in front of/closer than whatever they’re protecting for it to work.
2 CP is a bargain, even if you use it as likely intended: Krast Crusader coming around the corner to lay into your units. Nope. Here, eat those 50 points of scouts. It's all you're allowed to declare against. Hell, most Eldar player would think 2 CP is a bargain for making a unit just -1, never mind making scores of units un-targetable.
And if you get janky with shrouded Phobos units hiding and blocking for the rest of the army, it'll become fun.
Also syncs nicely with the Iron Hands stuff if you really, really wanna go to town. Get that Relic Leviathan with a 5+++ WL trait and a buddy behind it carrying the Iron Stone. Put a Salamanders character behind that to be the focus of the strat. Than conga-line the Salamanders Army behind that (possibly with Iron Hands characters and sub-10 wound character dreads mixed in).
Now the only thing the opponent can shoot is the T8 2+/4++/5+++ half-damage, -1 damage, I heal insane amounts of damage each turn Leviathan most people would just ignore in any other scenario .. lol.
But the protecting unit can be closer, but out of LoS. I know a lot of people play effectively without terrain, but on a proper table this is not hard to do at all. Furthermore, you often have front lines and then long ranged firebase of powerful shooty units on the backfield. A single character can render whole firebase untargetable with this stratagem.
And how does this even make sense thematically? The fluff talks about heroic sacrifice, but it still allows the protecting unit to hide. This is total BS.
Crimson wrote: But the protecting unit can be closer, but out of LoS. I know a lot of people play effectively without terrain, but on a proper table this is not hard to do at all. Furthermore, you often have front lines and then long ranged firebase of powerful shooty units on the backfield. A single character can render whole firebase untargetable with this stratagem.
And how does this even make sense thematically? The fluff talks about heroic sacrifice, but it still allows the protecting unit to hide. This is total BS.
Yeah, it should really work like grots or Drones. The target of the strat takes hits instead of the unit being shot at. That's much more thematic than every enemy unit suddenly forgetting how to shoot, because there's a marine hiding behind a wall a foot closer than something that's out in the open. Those sort of targeting rules are dumb and needs to die. Starting with the god awful character rules.
LOL what garbage rule design. It essentially is a stratagem that FORCES a narrative on the other player. Sure, your scrubs can try to perform a noble sacrifice, but I shouldn't be forced into performing the NPC Saturday morning cartoon villain role of shooting everything into the decoy so the GIJoes can win.
This is why I really do hate stratagems in matched play, they are not even remotely balanced and never will be. I think they are a lot of fun to read and combo with in theory, but they make really stupid in game scenarios unless your going for a narrative. There is no way to balance them. 1CP to halve damage on a normal bog standard dread is OK, 1CP to halve damage on an iron hand dreadnought near the new HQ and relic is broken.
). I originally planned to use an Aggressor head, but I like yours better. I've seen it before can't place it right now, what kit is that from?
<- That's meant to be ravenguard... 
