It’s also just the name of the campaign narrative.
I don’t think it means everyone has to have something psychic happen.
It could all be themed around some sort of psychic backlash from someone awakening that then draws factions as they see or feel it happen. And nothing else psychic comes into it but the one person.
I mean, I think there is a bit more to it than that, but you get my point..
Jidmah wrote: It's really not rocket science to just move Eternal/Cryptec/C'Tan powers and similar abilities to the psychic phase and provide some deny mechanisms to them...
That would be funny. "new campaign! Awesome rules for all! Here's nerf to necrons!"
Jidmah wrote: It's really not rocket science to just move Eternal/Cryptec/C'Tan powers and similar abilities to the psychic phase and provide some deny mechanisms to them...
I don't like this idea. If they're supposed not to be psykers, then they shouldn't work like psykers. Making then non-psykers in name only would feel like a cop out.
Please re-read what I wrote. They are not supposed to become psykers and explode on double-sixes. They already have skills that look and feel very similar like psychic powers, they should keep them exactly like they are. Have them trigger the elemental buffs/c'tan powers/prayers/orders and other totally-not-psychic powers in the psychic phase so they have something to do there.
Heck, they could even rename it to "Strategic Phase", so everyone would know that all the army-specific fancy stuff is going on then and not at random during/beginning/end of a phase/turn/battle round. Clean rule set!
Jidmah wrote: It's really not rocket science to just move Eternal/Cryptec/C'Tan powers and similar abilities to the psychic phase and provide some deny mechanisms to them...
That would be funny. "new campaign! Awesome rules for all! Here's nerf to necrons!"
How is giving ability to deny what is currently non-deniable NOT a nerf?
Let's see. I can give mortal wounds without opponent having tool to prevent it apart from killing c'tan. Now he can deny it. Hmm...Yeah not a nerf. Not a nerf at all. Oh and hey since point of moving to same phase would be to have them work in similar way they would also be gaining casting value...yeah that's even more of weakening.
Okay let's put this another way. Remove ability to deny psychic spells. Is that NOT a buff for psychic powers? Imagine da jump that opponent can do nothing to stop except kill weirdboy before it is cast. Is that not a buff for weirdboy?
If the enemy doesn't gain ability to deny them then how would move to psychic phase change things at all? Whole point of move would be to have them work in similar way. Otherwise it's change in name only. As it is timing is pretty much same. After movement. If they works out same way then it's change to psychic phase would be just cosmetic change with no actual effect to how rules work.
(and it wouldn't be so bad to nerf IF they were actually broken but necrons aren't top tier to begin with and c'tans don't get involved in top necron lists to begin with so nerfing c'tans would be weird place...It's like nerf to bubble chucka in ork codex was. Nerf already sub optimal unit. Wee! Makes sense!)
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model. If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
How is giving ability to deny what is currently non-deniable NOT a nerf?
Let's see. I can give mortal wounds without opponent having tool to prevent it apart from killing c'tan. Now he can deny it. Hmm...Yeah not a nerf. Not a nerf at all. Oh and hey since point of moving to same phase would be to have them work in similar way they would also be gaining casting value...yeah that's even more of weakening.
Okay let's put this another way. Remove ability to deny psychic spells. Is that NOT a buff for psychic powers? Imagine da jump that opponent can do nothing to stop except kill weirdboy before it is cast. Is that not a buff for weirdboy?
If the enemy doesn't gain ability to deny them then how would move to psychic phase change things at all? Whole point of move would be to have them work in similar way. Otherwise it's change in name only. As it is timing is pretty much same. After movement. If they works out same way then it's change to psychic phase would be just cosmetic change with no actual effect to how rules work.
(and it wouldn't be so bad to nerf IF they were actually broken but necrons aren't top tier to begin with and c'tans don't get involved in top necron lists to begin with so nerfing c'tans would be weird place...It's like nerf to bubble chucka in ork codex was. Nerf already sub optimal unit. Wee! Makes sense!)
Eh, you interpreted way too much into that. But good thing you went into full rage mode with all your civilized ways to discuss things as usual.
I meant providing those armies with a creative way to deny powers - like a drone that can take a shot at anyone casting a psychic power within 24" or something.
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model.
If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
I don't understand why the Ghazzy model is required. Meganobs are almost exactly the same size and are far easier to kitbash, not to mention they already create a HQ in the MegaMek.
For me this is the perfect opportunity for GW to create a 'new' model that's definitely NOT the Warboss in Mega Armour but is actually the 'PrimeOrk Megaboss with Git Splatter Klaw'. The kit will also be capable of building a Ghazzy as well as the Megaboss and both will be of an appropriate size and statline befitting their status in the WAAAAGGHHH! I'm thinking something similar to the Greater Daemon models that can also make a named character.
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model.
If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
I don't understand why the Ghazzy model is required. Meganobs are almost exactly the same size and are far easier to kitbash, not to mention they already create a HQ in the MegaMek.
In previous editions you'd have a point, but this is current GW we are talking about. They really don't want you to kitbash. Oh they might pay lip service, but there will always be a caveat. See : Looted Wagon being Open Play only.
ikeulhu wrote: They could still make it a "Power" phase or something that handled psychic powers
Hero phase!
(Do not want)
I think I'd welcome it to be honest, there are a lot of abilities on a lot of characters that could just be consolidated onto 1 phase rather than being spread across the game duration. Would make it all a lot neater and maybe give them a window to reign back in all those reroll auras a little.
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model.
If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
I don't understand why the Ghazzy model is required. Meganobs are almost exactly the same size and are far easier to kitbash, not to mention they already create a HQ in the MegaMek.
In previous editions you'd have a point, but this is current GW we are talking about. They really don't want you to kitbash. Oh they might pay lip service, but there will always be a caveat. See : Looted Wagon being Open Play only.
I'd agree its not required... I just don't want to lose a great model and conversion base unnecessarily.
If we're talking about whats required, it's a proper Warboss kit! I'm talking with options for big choppas, power claws, warbikes, cyboars, squigs and runts galore, 'eavy armour, mega armour, cybork body etc.
For peter's sake, at the moment we're limping along with Grukk masquerading as a standard warboss!
I meant providing those armies with a creative way to deny powers - like a drone that can take a shot at anyone casting a psychic power within 24" or something.
Ah yes moving c'tan powers to psychic phase as suggested in what I replied is required for that...Riiiiight.
Maybe in future actually read what I'm replying and to what. It was suggested to move c'tan powers to psychic power. There's no point to that if the c'tan powers wouldn't be done to work like psychic powers. It's 100% NOT REQUIRED to give necrons psychic deny abilities. That drone isn't c'tan power. Denying psychic power isn't at all related to c'tan powers. Hell necrons already have abilities to deny powers and you know what? Those work despite c'tan powers not being in psychic power or work. Literally THE only way to move the c'tan powers into psychic phase is to have them work with same rules rather than their own things. And seeing c'tan powers are atm more reliable than psychic powers that's clearly a nerf. to already underperforming unit.
Simple logic is wonderful thing if it's applied. Too bad you didn't.
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model.
If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
I don't understand why the Ghazzy model is required. Meganobs are almost exactly the same size and are far easier to kitbash, not to mention they already create a HQ in the MegaMek.
In previous editions you'd have a point, but this is current GW we are talking about. They really don't want you to kitbash. Oh they might pay lip service, but there will always be a caveat. See : Looted Wagon being Open Play only.
I'd agree its not required... I just don't want to lose a great model and conversion base unnecessarily.
If we're talking about whats required, it's a proper Warboss kit! I'm talking with options for big choppas, power claws, warbikes, cyboars, squigs and runts galore, 'eavy armour, mega armour, cybork body etc.
For peter's sake, at the moment we're limping along with Grukk masquerading as a standard warboss!
Wait, Ghaz DOESN'T need a new model? Are you guys high? He's on a 50mm base and you've had 20 years to convert that model. This must be some next level cope.
Kroem wrote: My concern with this rumour is that GW have been rather hit and miss with their new sculpts and Ghazz already has a great looking model.
If any new models come out looking as good as the new Chaos marines then great, but I'm still worried about them changing the ork boys kit which imo is one of the best looking kits they have ever produced for 40k.
Also I love converting and they seem to love to make new models as hard to convert as possible! That cool Nazdreg conversion from Codex:Armageddon is based on Ghazz and would be much harder without his model...
You think the current Ghazz model stands with the likes of Guilliman, Abby, Morty and Magnus?
That's a different stance. The model is OK, its not worthy of Ghazz though, not anymore.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abbs
I mean that's more of a problem with the scale of those models than with Ghaz, personally I don't want an Action Man sized model Anywho, I would be totally cool with the Ghaz model hanging around as 'Warboss in Mega Armour'. It would be a shame to lose such an iconic model which is such a good basis for conversion!
I don't understand why the Ghazzy model is required. Meganobs are almost exactly the same size and are far easier to kitbash, not to mention they already create a HQ in the MegaMek.
In previous editions you'd have a point, but this is current GW we are talking about. They really don't want you to kitbash. Oh they might pay lip service, but there will always be a caveat. See : Looted Wagon being Open Play only.
I'd agree its not required... I just don't want to lose a great model and conversion base unnecessarily.
If we're talking about whats required, it's a proper Warboss kit! I'm talking with options for big choppas, power claws, warbikes, cyboars, squigs and runts galore, 'eavy armour, mega armour, cybork body etc.
For peter's sake, at the moment we're limping along with Grukk masquerading as a standard warboss!
Wait, Ghaz DOESN'T need a new model? Are you guys high? He's on a 50mm base and you've had 20 years to convert that model. This must be some next level cope.
Pretty sure they are saying we do not need a new Ghaz model to substitute for MA Warboss, as we have Meganobs for such a conversion. They are not saying that we do not need a new Ghaz, because that is just foolish talk. He is way too puny compared to the current scale of models.
What I'm saying is that we don't need a Ghazz model anywhere near as badly as we need models which are just MIA from the codex. The current model is iconic, great for conversion and still looks great after 20 years loyal service.
Whilst it seems that not everyone would agree on the 2nd point, I think we all should be able to agree on the first point!
looking at the new mortarch for AoS, they could just release a new scullpted mega base to put Ghaz on.
If they ad some hangarounds to the base that represent new plastic versions of old characters it would be a must buy for lots of orkfictionados
Fayric wrote: looking at the new mortarch for AoS, they could just release a new scullpted mega base to put Ghaz on.
If they ad some hangarounds to the base that represent new plastic versions of old characters it would be a must buy for lots of orkfictionados
Bring back Makari! Ghaz needs his lucky gretchen flag waver.
Kroem wrote: What I'm saying is that we don't need a Ghazz model anywhere near as badly as we need models which are just MIA from the codex. The current model is iconic, great for conversion and still looks great after 20 years loyal service.
Whilst it seems that not everyone would agree on the 2nd point, I think we all should be able to agree on the first point!
And yet, plastic banshees and sisters.
He is kind of like those old metal avatars that are smaller than a modern farseer.
Agree going by old hammer scale Ghaz should be at least larger than Abs
To be perfectly frank, going by Oldhammer scale Ghaz was SMALLER than Abaddon - everyone seems to forget the Abaddon model that was kicking around through 3rd ed onwards was a 2nd ed relic that, at the time was the largest special character GW had produced outside Fantasy monster riders. Abby was always a big boy. He only became 'small' because he didn't age well. Terminators got upscaled and you have to remember that for the better part of 4 editions Abby didn't. So as everything else got bigger he remained the same until his rework.
However, FLUFFWISE - yes, he should be larger. They've been gradually making Ghaz this sort of 'avatar' of Orks, getting progressively bigger and stronger the bigger and stronger the Ork race as a whole gets. And considering Kryptmann had locked Octarius into a Tyranid-Ork Cage Match....that's bound to have an effect and I should imagine Ghaz is a big boy now, easily the size of a Hive Tyrant. Not as big as the Daemon Primarchs but I should imagine he's a fair bit bigger than Guilliman and Abs due to the raw Waaagh power basically being pumped into him. And to be fair, Orks needs a centrepiece like that. I'll come out and say Eldar do too - the current Avatar is a joke - but again, a 2nd edition hangover from when they had casting restrictions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: The current model is from 3rd edition - all of the eldar aspec warriors which are in such dire need of updates have been released afterwards.
^Also, this. In terms of 'age'... the oldest serving minis are...in chronological (ish) order...
NOTE: Sisters of Battle are excluded - you're already getting your entire range overhauled. Shhh.
Space Wolves - Ragnar Blackmane (late Rogue Trader, early 2nd ed)
Eldar - The Avatar, the Phoenix Lords, Warp Spiders, Vypers, Falcon Grav-Tanks (early 2nd ed to late 2nd ed)
Chaos - Fabius Bile, Khorne Berserkers, Chaos Bikes (late 2nd ed to early 3rd ed)
Orks - Ghaz, Mad Dok Grotsnik (early 3rd ed)
After this it becomes very hit and miss for age - the 'Troops' choices for most armies are quite dated. Eldar Guardians are the oldest currently standing- not even having had their sprues recut. Tyranid Hormagaunts and Termagants fall right in behind them, followed by Necron Warriors - Ork Boyz had have a sprue recut since their release. You can argue that Tyranids have their sprues recut but nothing even changed - at least Orks wound up with some minor changes to the sprues and components.
An Actual Englishman wrote: If it is BT vs Orks I don't think it'd be Armageddon personally. I get the distinct impression from the codex that Ghazzy is done with that particular warzone for now. Could be wrong but I just don't get that vibe.
The exact opposite ghaz isn’t done with armeggedon he is recruiting more and more orks in different systems and bringing them to armeggedon to create a bigger waaagh and create stronger orks. Each war of armeggedon is just ghaz leaving and coming back with more warlords. It makes sense ghaz is trying to become another prime ork.
Regarding new models we can use a ghaz model dual kit that comes with prime ork warlord in mega armpit as the second build.
And a new big Mek model with kff option...personally I wouldn’t mind a plastic meka dread big Mek with supa skorcha option.
In other words our HQ options without index are limited
honestly at this point I wonder why the IoM doesn't just sucker Ghaz into armageddon again and exterminatius the planet. any manafucturing capability on the world must be long destroyed.
moving that aside IMHO once GW moves all the finecast into plastic I'd rather see the focus shfit to upgrading units that have simply aged the most poorly. for example IG infantry might be newer then Ork Obyz but IMHO they've not aged as well. partly due to depicting humans which we're all familer with and the many many many other human minis out there (Compare a IG mini to an admech or SoS mini, just for example) Orks looking a little cartoony is less noticable. I know obviously not everyone will agree mind you.
An Actual Englishman wrote: If it is BT vs Orks I don't think it'd be Armageddon personally. I get the distinct impression from the codex that Ghazzy is done with that particular warzone for now. Could be wrong but I just don't get that vibe.
The exact opposite ghaz isn’t done with armeggedon he is recruiting more and more orks in different systems and bringing them to armeggedon to create a bigger waaagh and create stronger orks. Each war of armeggedon is just ghaz leaving and coming back with more warlords. It makes sense ghaz is trying to become another prime ork.
Regarding new models we can use a ghaz model dual kit that comes with prime ork warlord in mega armpit as the second build.
And a new big Mek model with kff option...personally I wouldn’t mind a plastic meka dread big Mek with supa skorcha option.
In other words our HQ options without index are limited
What makes you think Ghaz isn't done with Armageddon? As I said I codex led me to believe otherwise.
Also an 'Ork warlord in mega armpit' sounds genius.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly at this point I wonder why the IoM doesn't just sucker Ghaz into armageddon again and exterminatius the planet. any manafucturing capability on the world must be long destroyed.
moving that aside IMHO once GW moves all the finecast into plastic I'd rather see the focus shfit to upgrading units that have simply aged the most poorly. for example IG infantry might be newer then Ork Obyz but IMHO they've not aged as well. partly due to depicting humans which we're all familer with and the many many many other human minis out there (Compare a IG mini to an admech or SoS mini, just for example) Orks looking a little cartoony is less noticable. I know obviously not everyone will agree mind you.
Armageddon churns out a ton of materiel to throw into the war machine, even during the wars. It is still a key manufacturing centre for the Imperium which is why they defend it so hard. In addition, if there wasn't a good fight to be had there, Ghazzy wouldn't turn up - his entire reason for being is to lead Orks into the best scrap ever, likely there wouldn't be much of a fight to be had if the Imperium intended to exterminatus. Add to that the massive fleet that accompanies Ghazzy's WAAAAGGHH! Finally and most obviously - that would be a massive waste of a great story hook. Ghazzy, like all the other 'key' faction characters, will never die.
Your point re shifting the focus to models that have 'not aged well' is moot because everyone will have different opinions on what has aged well. I think our Boyz look awful - they literally look as if they are twerking. Eldar players probably think their aspects and other older models haven't aged well. So too with the IG player/fan and their models (that I think look far better than Boyz, for example).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Noticed update video on YouTube which is interesting because the information included is in direct opposition to information that Valrak has received from (presumably) another source. I have updated OP with info but long story short - one source claims IH and Raven Guard are definitely next (and go up for pre order on Sept 21st) and one rumour source (boxed set guy) claims that the order has changed and Salamanders and IF are now next (and IF supplement does not include Black Templar's).
Someone at GW might have been misfed information and may be losing their job.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Noticed update video on YouTube which is interesting because the information included is in direct opposition to information that Valrak has received from (presumably) another source. I have updated OP with info but long story short - one source claims IH and Raven Guard are definitely next (and go up for pre order on Sept 21st) and one rumour source (boxed set guy) claims that the order has changed and Salamanders and IF are now next (and IF supplement does not include Black Templar's).
Someone at GW might have been misfed information and may be losing their job.
The plot thickens, that's some serious spy gak if GW really did that..
Because the model still looks decent next to the buggy crew that came out last year, while Thrakka does not. I'd have guesses he was the same age as the other ork named characters.
According to the modeler, ork's physiology was inspired by gorillas. Gorillas walking upright have the exact same posture, and remaking that kit would just have the same thing with more detail.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Noticed update video on YouTube which is interesting because the information included is in direct opposition to information that Valrak has received from (presumably) another source. I have updated OP with info but long story short - one source claims IH and Raven Guard are definitely next (and go up for pre order on Sept 21st) and one rumour source (boxed set guy) claims that the order has changed and Salamanders and IF are now next (and IF supplement does not include Black Templar's).
Someone at GW might have been misfed information and may be losing their job.
The plot thickens, that's some serious spy gak if GW really did that..
actually it's pretty typical leak management, identity your suspects give them each a differant bit of information, see what story leaks and then clamp down.
that said all Valrak says is that his source saw the stuff he saw in the warehouse ready to ship. it could well be it IS ready to ship, it just won't be shipped next.
I like the rumor that Black Templars are getting their own book again. I remember playing against Black Templars in 4th ed, and they got some fun and unique stuff.
From what I remember, if a squad takes casualties they moved D6 inches towards an enemy unit, and they had access to the Holy Hand Grenade (ok, its really called the Holy Orb of Antioch, but we all knew what it really was back then)
Absolute bastards against my necrons, but still a pretty cool army.
Jidmah wrote: It's really not rocket science to just move Eternal/Cryptec/C'Tan powers and similar abilities to the psychic phase and provide some deny mechanisms to them...
Why would they do that when they can instead give the ANTI-psyker armies more ANTI-psyker stuff to highlight their uniqueness and act as a narrative foil?
Yeah, this. Necrons should really be more like 40k's analogue to the dwarfs. No magic, but you aren't getting magic either.
Jidmah wrote: It's really not rocket science to just move Eternal/Cryptec/C'Tan powers and similar abilities to the psychic phase and provide some deny mechanisms to them...
I don't like this idea. If they're supposed not to be psykers, then they shouldn't work like psykers. Making then non-psykers in name only would feel like a cop out.
They could still make it a "Power" phase or something that handled psychic powers, cryptek/ctan powers, and ethereal powers during the same phase but with varied rules depending on the type of power without it being a cop-out. At least then the phase would have something to do for Necrons and Tau instead of being ignored.
That is a possible solution, yes. It would require a rewrite of everything though, and I think GW is too lazy for that. That's more like something they'd bring out for 9th ed.
Noticed update video on YouTube which is interesting because the information included is in direct opposition to information that Valrak has received from (presumably) another source. I have updated OP with info but long story short - one source claims IH and Raven Guard are definitely next (and go up for pre order on Sept 21st) and one rumour source (boxed set guy) claims that the order has changed and Salamanders and IF are now next (and IF supplement does not include Black Templar's).
Someone at GW might have been misfed information and may be losing their job.
Beastgrave is most likely going to be the 21st preorder, as that’s when the Beastgrave novel is going up for preorder.
According to the modeler, ork's physiology was inspired by gorillas. Gorillas walking upright have the exact same posture, and remaking that kit would just have the same thing with more detail.
I've seen a ton of GW artwork that somehow avoided the bootylicious Orks our Boys are. There is gorilla physiology and then there is twerking. The two don't have look the same.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Look, dat ork booty is a required part of their culture. How else are they going to bring all da boyz to da waagh?
GW needs to stop 'Umie-washin' Ork Kultur! Recent AOS releases have had less junk in the trunk than a bunch of girls called Ellie dancing in a circle to "Single Ladies" in a crap nightclub in Watford.
A post about the psychic awakening went online on the warhammer community page, but it looks like it was taken offline again. However, my rss reader managed to get the text. I have attached it as an image.
BrianDavion wrote: if the first one deals with the Ultramarines vs Edlar is it too much to wish for a plastic multipart supressor kit to be released as part of it?
It sounds like it's going to be elf on elf action, reading the info on the Psychic Awakening site.
Sounds like its going to have an Eldar vs Eldar focus for the first campaign. Hopefully its a bit more complex than Craftworlders on one side and Dark Eldar on the other.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Sounds like its going to have an Eldar vs Eldar focus for the first campaign. Hopefully its a bit more complex than Craftworlders on one side and Dark Eldar on the other.
Sounds like Ynnari v Craftworld v Drukhari in a free for all extraordinaire
Sounds like Ynnari v Craftworld v Drukhari in a free for all extraordinaire
I'm thinking more emphasis on the "Ynnari vs" part, myself. "Phoenix" ... Isn't that a symbol of Ynnead? And fluff-wise they're still not the most popular bunch within Eldar culture, are they? Could be the remapping of some of the lines accordingly.
Crazyterran wrote: Which Craftworld is near Macragge there, and who's rune is that? I'm not versed on Eldar.
The symbol on the map is the Craftworlds faction. Its a bit tricky to get bearings on that map, bu Craftworlds Alaitoc and Iyanden are roughly in the area of the Eldar clicky button.
The ancient and proud Aeldari race is split into various factions. The stoic and noble Asuryani live their lives adrift on planet-sized Craftworlds. The depraved Drukhari venture forth from the dark metropolis of Commorragh to raid and pillage. The mysterious Harlequins travel the galaxy according to their unfathomable whims via the webway. And the newly formed Ynnari, comprised of members from all walks of Aeldari life, are united in the desire to awaken Ynnead, god of the dead.
The Aeldari are a psychically sensitive race, and the fragile balance between these disparate cultures has been disturbed by the Psychic Awakening. These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people.
Ancient divisions yawn ever wider, the complex fabric of alliances and uneasy truces unravels, and self-righteous leaders on all sides attempt to rally support for their causes.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Sounds like its going to have an Eldar vs Eldar focus for the first campaign. Hopefully its a bit more complex than Craftworlders on one side and Dark Eldar on the other.
Sounds like Ynnari v Craftworld v Drukhari in a free for all extraordinaire
The ancient and proud Aeldari race is split into various factions. The stoic and noble Asuryani live their lives adrift on planet-sized Craftworlds. The depraved Drukhari venture forth from the dark metropolis of Commorragh to raid and pillage. The mysterious Harlequins travel the galaxy according to their unfathomable whims via the webway. And the newly formed Ynnari, comprised of members from all walks of Aeldari life, are united in the desire to awaken Ynnead, god of the dead.
The Aeldari are a psychically sensitive race, and the fragile balance between these disparate cultures has been disturbed by the Psychic Awakening. These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people.
Ancient divisions yawn ever wider, the complex fabric of alliances and uneasy truces unravels, and self-righteous leaders on all sides attempt to rally support for their causes.
Sounds likely it is indeed an all-Eldar book. Aeldari versus Drukhari, with the Harlequins in the middle. It will be the Ynnari that will prove to be the tipping point.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Sounds like its going to have an Eldar vs Eldar focus for the first campaign. Hopefully its a bit more complex than Craftworlders on one side and Dark Eldar on the other.
Sounds like Ynnari v Craftworld v Drukhari in a free for all extraordinaire
Because the model still looks decent next to the buggy crew that came out last year, while Thrakka does not. I'd have guesses he was the same age as the other ork named characters.
Actually, Ragnar (and Njal in power armour) predates 2nd edition by a year. The Rune Priest in terminator armour is nearly as venerable. They're quite probably the oldest models in the 40k range right now.
GoatboyBeta wrote: So does this add any credibility to the BT vs Orks box rumours?
The opposite. Source that claimed box was happening also claimed that it was Salamanders and IF that would be next so looks like this is bogus.
Yeah just went back and re-watched Kirioth's videos. The original rumour was for IH and RG, but that got revised to IF and Salamanders. Still the pairing of the books was on the money.
Yeah just went back and re-watched Kirioth's videos. The original rumour was for IH and RG, but that got revised to IF and Salamanders. Still the pairing of the books was on the money.
Whoop-de-doo. I mean there certainly were nigh infinite amount of possible combinations, it is virtually impossible that anyone could have just guessed it!
GoatboyBeta wrote: So does this add any credibility to the BT vs Orks box rumours?
The opposite. Source that claimed box was happening also claimed that it was Salamanders and IF that would be next so looks like this is bogus.
Yeah just went back and re-watched Kirioth's videos. The original rumour was for IH and RG, but that got revised to IF and Salamanders. Still the pairing of the books was on the money.
Cool, so do the people who noticed that the 'pairings' were just the layouts in the previous C: Space Marine's Chapter Traits get credit too?
The pairings that were mentioned, as soon as the White Scars book was announced to be coming with Ultramarines:
Ultramarines
White Scars
Sons of Dorn(Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Crimson Fists)
Salamanders
Yeah just went back and re-watched Kirioth's videos. The original rumour was for IH and RG, but that got revised to IF and Salamanders. Still the pairing of the books was on the money.
Whoop-de-doo. I mean there certainly were nigh infinite amount of possible combinations, it is virtually impossible that anyone could have just guessed it!
Super impossible, especially given that people pointed out it followed the pattern on p 195 of the previous Space Marines book.
Crimson wrote: I play a custom chapter, but I need to get both of these sprues. So may good bits.
True, the little claw on the RG sprue is sublime. Now everyone can be styled-like Shrike! The heads, though...not that I am super against emo Marines, the more Shrike-like hair-over-one-eye looks okay, but the hair on the other head looks very rougly done. More like a really bad, lumpy wig. The IH stuff looks good, but bionic heads are easier to get than tiny raven . Love the studded shoulder pads, though.
For the Eliminators I hope they're not too expensive and have more possible pose variations than standing while aiming/pistol aiming, kneeling aiming/reloading and sarge with weapon down.
RambIing becausr I'm tired: I only own DI, Shadowspear, No Fear Primaris and a single box of Reivers to plunder for spare arms. Most of my monopose dudes were turned into Kill Teams of different chapters and I'm running out of the small pile of even minimarine bits I have. Though I was surprised just how much Astartes I - without trying - collected over the years with starter sets, Death Masque, Overkill, Space Hulk, Prospero...easily a full company and several squads of Termis on top. Geez. Too bad that most have those tiny stubby legs that GW told us for decades were normal I guess my nephews wouldn't mind them.
I don't think the rumour is completely debunked, it's possible the source was purposefully fed false information to reveal their identity or that they made an honest mistake.
It is definitely less likely though.
They also claimed that it wouldn't be a "Son's of Dorn" book, it would be IF (including CF) and Black Templars would follow in another, separate book of their own.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I don't think the rumour is completely debunked, it's possible the source was purposefully fed false information to reveal their identity or that they made an honest mistake.
It is definitely less likely though.
They also claimed that it wouldn't be a "Son's of Dorn" book, it would be IF (including CF) and Black Templars would follow in another, separate book of their own.
it's also possiable they changed the release order. I was in my local GW today and apparently we where supposed to get these pre-orders "last week" so GW clearly changed up their schedule for some reason
Where is Kidkyoto with his review of codex Emo-marines. Lol those heads.
Otoh drum fed bolters are made of win. My first third edition Grey Hunter squads had lovingly converted drum fed bolters. Might have to get a couple of those sprues. Wish you could just purchase 10 of those bolters.
The IH sprue has bolt rifles with the assault bolt rifle ammo hopper and the scope of the sniper version-curious to see if this is a new option for IH or just a fancy bolt rifle.
I’ll admit, I think the Shrike head is silly. Chapter Master Hot Topic?!? It it wasn’t worth ten pages
Anyways, I am glad that GW is committing to it. One of those new RG heads looks exactly like Grima Wormtongue, so at least they are getting use from that 17 year old sculpt. Just kidding. It looks like Severus Snape’s younger, uglier brother.
And my prayers have finally been answered. Been hoping for a Iron Hands sprue for years, just to get some sweet bionic parts/limbs to sprinkle about my battle-hardened Astartes. Let’s see what we’re getting, shallow we? A single pointing arm. One.
I would’ve been OK with 4 helmets and 2 (or none, really) bare heads.
One per Sprue, just like all the other upgrade kits. Worst thing is they are just different enough from Mk VI Beakies that using the old ones won't look right.
I would’ve been OK with 4 helmets and 2 (or none, really) bare heads.
One per Sprue, just like all the other upgrade kits. Worst thing is they are just different enough from Mk VI Beakies that using the old ones won't look right.
the old ones don't really fit anyway, (the high collar prevents it) so the new beaky helm was a purposeful redesign. that said I'm sure you could make a mold with one of the heads easily eneugh
So going by the release for other chapters, when the Black Templar’s drop it’s a safe bet that we are looking at maybe a Primaris size emperors champion and upgrade pack.
Hope they don’t stop the chapter upgrade box that’s already out as it’s not a bad box .
xKillGorex wrote: So going by the release for other chapters, when the Black Templar’s drop it’s a safe bet that we are looking at maybe a Primaris size emperors champion and upgrade pack.
Hope they don’t stop the chapter upgrade box that’s already out as it’s not a bad box .
well a primarisized character of some type. Black templars have a number of (absolutely AWESOME) characters to choose from.
The Iron Hands upgrade is fantastic. Could have had more bionics, but I've always wondered about the logistics of bionics that, for some reason, don't fit under the power armour anyway.... (yes, I know it's because it looks cool). But the shoulder pads and heads and other little bits and pieces are great. Just what I needed for my new Primaris force.
ekwatts wrote: The Iron Hands upgrade is fantastic. Could have had more bionics, but I've always wondered about the logistics of bionics that, for some reason, don't fit under the power armour anyway.... (yes, I know it's because it looks cool).
There's a conversation between Arkhan Land - the Techno-archaeologist that recovered STC like the Land Speeder and Land Raider - and Zephon - a Blood Angel with two bionic arms - about this subject in the Master of Mankind novel. Zephon explains that the primary reason that bionics are not covered by power armour is how bionics fail to interface with power armour. But that there's also an element of inspirational pride in the practice, to present them as invincible, enduring warriors to their enemies, to show that they overcome their wounds and fight on in the Emperor's name.
This goes doubly so for Iron Hands of course, who even replace perfectly fine tissue with bionics like the AdMech do.
xKillGorex wrote: So going by the release for other chapters, when the Black Templar’s drop it’s a safe bet that we are looking at maybe a Primaris size emperors champion and upgrade pack.
Hope they don’t stop the chapter upgrade box that’s already out as it’s not a bad box .
well a primarisized character of some type. Black templars have a number of (absolutely AWESOME) characters to choose from.
I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That said, from lore it would mean neglecting to don the Armour of Faith but then again, Korsarro Khan just up and trashed his Moondrakken relic bike so I dount GW care about that
Maybe. But I could also see Emperor's Champion turning from a model into a strat, similar to Lone Wolves, and GW doing Grimaldus or so. Or even nothing at all, if they stick to "one primarified Character per Supplement" and do Lysander instead.
Deadshot wrote: I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That would suck though.
Imagine you're a Black Templar. You've been on a near-constant crusade for the past 250 years. You have had to replace the chains that hold your weapons to your armour dozens of times after they got so gunked up with gore and viscera that no amount of cleaning would help. You've worn the teeth out on more Chainswords than you can count. The brass from the bolt pistol rounds you fired could cover the floors of the Emperor's palace twice over.
And then here comes this giganto-Marine who's been in stasis for 10,000 years, has never seen a real fight in his life, and he got a vision from the Emperor and gets the sword? WTF???
Deadshot wrote: I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That would suck though.
Imagine you're a Black Templar. You've been on a near-constant crusade for the past 250 years. You have had to replace the chains that hold your weapons to your armour dozens of times after they got so gunked up with gore and viscera that no amount of cleaning would help. You've worn the teeth out on more Chainswords than you can count. The brass from the bolt pistol rounds you fired could cover the floors of the Emperor's palace twice over.
And then here comes this giganto-Marine who's been in stasis for 10,000 years, has never seen a real fight in his life, and he got a vision from the Emperor and gets the sword? WTF???
We're well into a solid hundred and many more years of Primaris crusading around the galaxy. Short of an Emperor's Champ with a Dante-lifespan, any Primaris Emperors Champion may well be as grizzled and crusade-scarred as any non-Primaris Emperor's Champ was in the 6th or 7th Ed. timeline.
Deadshot wrote: I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That would suck though.
Imagine you're a Black Templar. You've been on a near-constant crusade for the past 250 years. You have had to replace the chains that hold your weapons to your armour dozens of times after they got so gunked up with gore and viscera that no amount of cleaning would help. You've worn the teeth out on more Chainswords than you can count. The brass from the bolt pistol rounds you fired could cover the floors of the Emperor's palace twice over.
And then here comes this giganto-Marine who's been in stasis for 10,000 years, has never seen a real fight in his life, and he got a vision from the Emperor and gets the sword? WTF???
Deadshot wrote: I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That would suck though.
Imagine you're a Black Templar. You've been on a near-constant crusade for the past 250 years. You have had to replace the chains that hold your weapons to your armour dozens of times after they got so gunked up with gore and viscera that no amount of cleaning would help. You've worn the teeth out on more Chainswords than you can count. The brass from the bolt pistol rounds you fired could cover the floors of the Emperor's palace twice over.
And then here comes this giganto-Marine who's been in stasis for 10,000 years, has never seen a real fight in his life, and he got a vision from the Emperor and gets the sword? WTF???
To be fair, that could happen with or without Primaris involved. Anyone from High Marshall Helbrecht himself rim down to the lowliest Initiate could receive the vision. The BT are religious AF, they aren't going to question the Emperor's infinite wisdom.
Deadshot wrote: I believe the Emperor's champion would be an ideal candidate A) from lore, the EC is literally whichever guy had a vision the night before battle B) They have a fantastic model but in finecast, so to be replaced with a plastic Primaris would be excellent.
That would suck though.
Imagine you're a Black Templar. You've been on a near-constant crusade for the past 250 years. You have had to replace the chains that hold your weapons to your armour dozens of times after they got so gunked up with gore and viscera that no amount of cleaning would help. You've worn the teeth out on more Chainswords than you can count. The brass from the bolt pistol rounds you fired could cover the floors of the Emperor's palace twice over.
And then here comes this giganto-Marine who's been in stasis for 10,000 years, has never seen a real fight in his life, and he got a vision from the Emperor and gets the sword? WTF???
To be fair, that could happen with or without Primaris involved. Anyone from High Marshall Helbrecht himself rim down to the lowliest Initiate could receive the vision. The BT are religious AF, they aren't going to question the Emperor's infinite wisdom.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Maybe. But I could also see Emperor's Champion turning from a model into a strat, similar to Lone Wolves, and GW doing Grimaldus or so. Or even nothing at all, if they stick to "one primarified Character per Supplement" and do Lysander instead.
That's assuming that Black Templars and Crimson Fists will be rolled into the Imperial Fist supplement. I mean, BT are guarenteed their own book considering they got unique rules for the last 3 editions/4 codexes, but the Crimson Fists are also getting their own tactics in 8th V2 as opposed to just using Imperial Fists as per, say, 6-7th ed.
As if Shrike's head wasn't bad enough.. Another good example of why you should always have helmets on 100% of your marines (Not to mention they're soldiers, and they should be in protective gear all the time!)
The Phazer wrote: It definitely feels like an error to have only included one beakie helmet on the Raven Guard sprue in favour of two unhelmeted heads tbh.
Given the association of the Corvus helmet with Raven Guard you might think so, but I very much doubt that on GW's part that was anything but a calculated move. How would you know that Shrike's new hair is not a personal choice but the new (visual) identity of the Raven Guard without access to enough bare heads to become an easily visible, widespread feature in your army?
The Phazer wrote: It definitely feels like an error to have only included one beakie helmet on the Raven Guard sprue in favour of two unhelmeted heads tbh.
Given the association of the Corvus helmet with Raven Guard you might think so, but I very much doubt that on GW's part that was anything but a calculated move. How would you know that Shrike's new hair is not a personal choice but the new (visual) identity of the Raven Guard without access to enough bare heads to become an easily visible, widespread feature in your army?
The helmet is intended for 'officers'.
Skull on the helmet=Sergeant, Veteran Sergeant, Lieutenant, or Captains--apparently.
We're well into a solid hundred and many more years of Primaris crusading around the galaxy. Short of an Emperor's Champ with a Dante-lifespan, any Primaris Emperors Champion may well be as grizzled and crusade-scarred as any non-Primaris Emperor's Champ was in the 6th or 7th Ed. timeline.
Yep. And of course if that old veteran could have gotten a Primaris upgrade via Rubicon.
We're well into a solid hundred and many more years of Primaris crusading around the galaxy. Short of an Emperor's Champ with a Dante-lifespan, any Primaris Emperors Champion may well be as grizzled and crusade-scarred as any non-Primaris Emperor's Champ was in the 6th or 7th Ed. timeline.
Yep. And of course if that old veteran could have gotten a Primaris upgrade via Rubicon.
And the Awoken aren't just initiates that were frozen. Some of them are veterans of the Great Crusade and the Heresy.
We're well into a solid hundred and many more years of Primaris crusading around the galaxy. Short of an Emperor's Champ with a Dante-lifespan, any Primaris Emperors Champion may well be as grizzled and crusade-scarred as any non-Primaris Emperor's Champ was in the 6th or 7th Ed. timeline.
Yep. And of course if that old veteran could have gotten a Primaris upgrade via Rubicon.
And the Awoken aren't just initiates that were frozen. Some of them are veterans of the Great Crusade and the Heresy.
There is also a possibility that some of them have even met the Primarch. Probably not Emps himself, but being that old definitely opens the possibility.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that the existing Marine heads (Beakies notwithstanding) fit with Primaris Marines, surely that means they work the other way around?
I ask because a few of those Iron Hands heads would look great on a few Iron Hand Deathwatch Marines.
As far as I'm aware, the heads and shoulder pads on Primaris/regular marines are completely interchangeable.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that the existing Marine heads (Beakies notwithstanding) fit with Primaris Marines, surely that means they work the other way around?
I ask because a few of those Iron Hands heads would look great on a few Iron Hand Deathwatch Marines.
As far as I'm aware, the heads and shoulder pads on Primaris/regular marines are completely interchangeable.
Shoulder pads are, Terminator/Gravis excepted. Almost all space marine heads are interchangable but there are exceptions when it comes to collared models, like the Mk8 in the tactical squad, Sternguard, veteran updates, BT upgrades, Deathwatch Vets and Primaris. The majority of the Mk8 don't fit normal MK7 helmets well at all, and the Deathwatch can only fit their unique, flat face helmets or bare heads. MK8 and MK10 don't fit Beakie helmets whatsoever, the nosecone doesn't allow for it.
Black Templars vs Ork is WRONG it's gonna be SW vs Orks and Templars will be in the second Psychic Awakening book.
According to the guy on the French forum.
godardc wrote: Black Templars vs Ork is WRONG it's gonna be SW vs Orks and Templars will be in the second Psychic Awakening book.
According to the guy on the French forum.
I would actually be very very very cool with that.
godardc wrote: Black Templars vs Ork is WRONG it's gonna be SW vs Orks and Templars will be in the second Psychic Awakening book.
According to the guy on the French forum.
I would actually be very very very cool with that.
hmm OK I guess it was ineveitable every book woud be Marines/Chaos marines vs someone......
I'd rather another Ork Character as well - bit of variety.
godardc wrote: Black Templars vs Ork is WRONG it's gonna be SW vs Orks and Templars will be in the second Psychic Awakening book.
According to the guy on the French forum.
Ooh interesting, did he have any news on what new units (if any) SW/Orks or Templars could expect?
The only thing that pushes me away from this is the fact that SW and Orks has been done before recently.
Malika2 wrote: Are you guys as shocked as me to see GW posting pictures of non-Primaris marines?
No, but then again I've been paying attention.
I've noticed an approx 50/50ish split for Astartes & Primaris.
My Astartes are about as good as my primaris since the codex dropped. Cant wait till everyone who's getting a supplement gets one. My Salamanders are waiting with bated breath to see what's in store for the 18th.
I feel like it'll be the same as what they did with Dwarfs in AOS
All the older dwarfs got discontinued. The warriors, thunderers, etc. But the newer, nicer models are still around. I won't be surprised to see the older, squatter marines to go, but the veterans are fairly new and still look great
GaroRobe wrote: I feel like it'll be the same as what they did with Dwarfs in AOS
All the older dwarfs got discontinued. The warriors, thunderers, etc. But the newer, nicer models are still around. I won't be surprised to see the older, squatter marines to go, but the veterans are fairly new and still look great
keep in mind tactical assault and devestator squads are actually a fairly new kit these days.
Scouts and bikers are among the oldest plastic marine kits now. And there is still no plastic techmarine in any form, primaris or otherwise, besides this new named character.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Scouts and bikers are among the oldest plastic marine kits now. And there is still no plastic techmarine in any form, primaris or otherwise, besides this new named character.
I kinda wish they made this new char a techmarine/iron father dual kit.
Malika2 wrote: Are you guys as shocked as me to see GW posting pictures of non-Primaris marines?
Nope, because unless you are part of the "oLd MaRiNeS aRe DeAd" brigade, you will actually see the fact that GW uses Old Marines just as much as Primaris in the new Codex and on their articles as well. On Vigilus, there were several Detachments that REQUIRED Old Marines.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
Yeah, it has been their thing for quite a while. The most recent Sternguard kit from like 2013 has them with white guns. It adds some really great contrast for them. I definitely approve.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
Yeah, it has been their thing for quite a while. The most recent Sternguard kit from like 2013 has them with white guns. It adds some really great contrast for them. I definitely approve.
I kinda don't like it. More contrast is great, but RG & BT already had the black-n-white thing covered. I think it would have been better if their guns casing were a bright silver instead. or Maybe just a hint of blue somewhere (as RG/BT also have hints of red, so that's out too)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
They've had them at least as far back as the 6th edition codex.
Ah ok, so its a relatively recent thing. That would explain why I didn't remember them having white guns back in 4th ed. Its a good change. Makes them stand out from Raven Guard and provides a bit of contrast. I wonder how they did the blue tinge on them, because its not a stark white.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
Yeah, it has been their thing for quite a while. The most recent Sternguard kit from like 2013 has them with white guns. It adds some really great contrast for them. I definitely approve.
I kinda don't like it. More contrast is great, but RG & BT already had the black-n-white thing covered. I think it would have been better if their guns casing were a bright silver instead.
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That would go more with the Iron hands thing, yes.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
Yeah, it has been their thing for quite a while. The most recent Sternguard kit from like 2013 has them with white guns. It adds some really great contrast for them. I definitely approve.
I kinda don't like it. More contrast is great, but RG & BT already had the black-n-white thing covered. I think it would have been better if their guns casing were a bright silver instead.
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I would actually like it more if it was a complete Left-Field color like the red the Dark Angels use on theirs.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know, I did not know Iron Hands had white guns. It looks quite nice.
Yeah, it has been their thing for quite a while. The most recent Sternguard kit from like 2013 has them with white guns. It adds some really great contrast for them. I definitely approve.
I kinda don't like it. More contrast is great, but RG & BT already had the black-n-white thing covered. I think it would have been better if their guns casing were a bright silver instead.
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I would actually like it more if it was a complete Left-Field color like the red the Dark Angels use on theirs.
Agreed. I'd go with blue since Red seems well covered as an accent color on so many other chapters. But aside from UMs, blue doesn't show very often.
Like always, they are trying to show how many cool options are available in the kit. It just so happens that half of those options don't work well together. Like at all.
You mean you guys DONT run Sternguard with a combi-plasma, grav-gun, heavy bolter, power fist and two special-issue Bolters in a land raider redeemer supported by missile launcher drop pods??
Malika2 wrote: Are you guys as shocked as me to see GW posting pictures of non-Primaris marines?
I'm more shocked at how badly kitted the Sternguard are, because MY GOD that's terrible.
Meh, you guys are no fun.
You need to get out of your comfort zones and play more narrative. Like with my DW, sure if it's a tournament it will be SS/SB, but for narrative....kill teams get to be a lot more fun to build. Random rolling also makes it fun.
The Sternguard kit remade 1:1 with Primaris proportions would be the best thing ever. Guns for DAYS, seriously, I pimped a lot of my DI and Shadowspear dudes with a single Sternguard kit. I hacked away a Suppressor's ammo belt and gave it to the HB from the same kit, too. The autocannon now has the bolter mag and no belt to get stuck on stuff while he's jumping around with a heavy weapon.
Malika2 wrote: Are you guys as shocked as me to see GW posting pictures of non-Primaris marines?
I'm more shocked at how badly kitted the Sternguard are, because MY GOD that's terrible.
Meh, you guys are no fun.
You need to get out of your comfort zones and play more narrative. Like with my DW, sure if it's a tournament it will be SS/SB, but for narrative....kill teams get to be a lot more fun to build. Random rolling also makes it fun.
It doesn't work for narrative games either. There's no unit composition that you would effectively force your opponent to bring that would make the unit a good idea at all. That's just insane.
Malika2 wrote: Are you guys as shocked as me to see GW posting pictures of non-Primaris marines?
I'm more shocked at how badly kitted the Sternguard are, because MY GOD that's terrible.
Meh, you guys are no fun.
You need to get out of your comfort zones and play more narrative. Like with my DW, sure if it's a tournament it will be SS/SB, but for narrative....kill teams get to be a lot more fun to build. Random rolling also makes it fun.
It doesn't work for narrative games either. There's no unit composition that you would effectively force your opponent to bring that would make the unit a good idea at all. That's just insane.
This may be one of the dumbest comments I've read on here.of course it can work in a game where the story is more important than the outcome. The unit is equipped for versatility. You obviously never play narrative because you can't let go of the word "effective".
H.B.M.C. wrote: GW used to post tacticas where they said putting 4 different HWs in a Dev squad was good for "versatility".
Anyway, it's just a flashy picture using what they have painted. Hardly worth arguing over.
Agreed. And furthermore, GW has never been about showcasing the "best in-game combos" but rather showing off models. If a kit has multiple options, it 100% makes sense to model as many of those options as possible so they need less photos overall.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: That's not versatile! That's not effective against ANY target!
lol, you just can't help yourself. Hilarious.
So please explain to me how something can be versatile if it can't handle literally ANY target?
That's the point, being versatile allows it to handle any target. It may not be optimal, but that's not the point and why its not for competitive play. The pictured unit has bolters, hvy bolter, hvy flamer for light infantry work, and plasma, grav, powerfist, etc, for heavier armour.
You just can't get past the whole "if it can't wipe out a single unit in one turn shooting, its dumb" mentality. My guess is you really never play narrative.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: That's not versatile! That's not effective against ANY target!
lol, you just can't help yourself. Hilarious.
So please explain to me how something can be versatile if it can't handle literally ANY target?
That's the point, being versatile allows it to handle any target. It may not be optimal, but that's not the point and why its not for competitive play. The pictured unit has bolters, hvy bolter, hvy flamer for light infantry work, and plasma, grav, powerfist, etc, for heavier armour.
You just can't get past the whole "if it can't wipe out a single unit in one turn shooting, its dumb" mentality. My guess is you really never play narrative.
It CAN'T handle any target though is the point. Not even over the course of a game. That's the opposite of versatile.
Raven Guard Chief Librarian: „With the hallowed techniques of Umbramancy, I will force the warp to my bidding and teleport this one person across the battlefield“.
It doesn't have the quality of shot to handle elite, hard targets and it doesn't have the quantity of shots to handle soft horde targets. If you go up against a squad of Ork Boyz they're going to take some casualties on the way in but eventually paste you, whereas the same will happen if you face Meganobz.
"Versatile" isn't "does something to everything", it's "can adapt on the fly and still do well", with an emphasis on "well". You can't divorce the concepts of efficiency and effectiveness from versatility the way you're trying because whether or not something is versatile or not is dependent on comparing its effectiveness and efficiency to other things in the same situation.
Is it just me or does Raven Guard look orders of magnitude worse than the other chapters?
VS character ability is way worse than re-roll 1s and no move penalty on heavy weapons or counts as standing still or even +1 to damage. The RG ability works all game which is a plus but I'm not sure it compares to the others. A lot of armies have 3-4 characters max it seems way more situational than the others.
The psychic power is wack without a way of getting 3d6 or < 9" charges. And just slinging one character around is extremely situational.
Fall back shoot and charge for 2cp? Unless you can fly most of the time you are trying to fall back you are wrapped (by a good opponent) so this one seems really bad as well.
Maybe they have cool stuff and GW just doesn't know what makes for a good power/strat but if these are the best of the lot I think RG got screwed.
godardc wrote: Pretty disappointed with the reroll to hit and wound characters as this barely happen in a party except if facing tyranids and deamons
Except it does happen often, as every army will have characters? It doesn't specify in close combat, so you can use this with snipers, who can target characters at will.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bananathug wrote: Is it just me or does Raven Guard look orders of magnitude worse than the other chapters?
VS character ability is way worse than re-roll 1s and no move penalty on heavy weapons or counts as standing still or even +1 to damage. The RG ability works all game which is a plus but I'm not sure it compares to the others. A lot of armies have 3-4 characters max it seems way more situational than the others.
Spam snipers. Congrats, you just got an relatively easy slay the warlord / first blood from killing a character that was out in the open. You also managed to rob the other player of his buffs, which means that he won't get his rerolls 1. I really don't see why people are disappointed about this, its a good tactical ability.
Spam snipers. Congrats, you just got an relatively easy slay the warlord / first blood from killing a character that was out in the open. You also managed to rob the other player of his buffs, which means that he won't get his rerolls 1.
I really don't see why people are disappointed about this, its a good tactical ability.
Well, it‘s no better than existing sniper armies already are on turn 1. Gotta wait turn 2, forgo Vindicares and hope it‘s a matchup where it matters.
Elims are already pretty good at killing foot characters and marines have lots of tools to deal with t7 and vehicles with no armor save. Helps vs Morty, Disco lords, Knights and TCs which are all really meta ATM so it is not terrible by any stretch but I still don't think it is as good as the others (I'm a huge fan of being able to move heavy weapons).
I'm surprised they didn't preview a scout deploy or deepstrike strat (hopefully they get something like this) which is what I really want as this mitigates the lack of mobility issue I find with most of my marines. I'm curious to see what other goodies they are getting. All it takes is one or two good strats to help capitalize on some combos and that can make/break a faction.
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Basic rule of 8th.
So except for shooting at 10 or more wounds characters or with one unit in the codex, the eliminators, this special RG doctrine seems underwhelming, I confirm.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or except your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
Your opinion is your own, clearly, but I'm happy with it.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
Its almost as if the chapter that specializes in assassination is expected to use weapons specialized for assassination.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?
Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I don't have the new SM codex to find the answer, but are eliminators still allowed to target characters with their las-fusels?
If so then those mini lascannons are sniping characters on 2+ to hit and most likely wound as well.
Ouch.
I don't think so, I think its just Bolt Sniper Rifles than can target characters. You do get different firing options though, and I recall one of them being quite nasty.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I don't have the new SM codex to find the answer, but are eliminators still allowed to target characters with their las-fusels?
If so then those mini lascannons are sniping characters on 2+ to hit and most likely wound as well.
Ouch.
I don't think so, I think its just Bolt Sniper Rifles than can target characters. You do get different firing options though, and I recall one of them being quite nasty.
No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
Its not just snipers. Close combat weapons get the bonus and a lot of the best characters aren't less than 10 wounds like most knights and demon primarchs
Galef wrote: No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-
Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?
Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.
Galef wrote: No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-
Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?
Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.
No, you're still using codex space marines. You just get more abilities. In a few months every SM army will be from a supplement.
"This is the STEALTH army!" *shows a pack of Termis with roaring chainweapons and tossing fools around while their buddy enthusiastically waves his banner*
Between a shiny new supplement and the madman Spikeyjames painting a metric ton of them in no time (to be fair, what DOESN'T he paint while you're lpoking away for bit) I'm tempted to make Ravenguard my full SM army instead of Silver Skulls or Crimspn Fists. All that black AND white, though, seems scary when you're a slow painter.
Kirasu wrote: Its not just snipers. Close combat weapons get the bonus and a lot of the best characters aren't less than 10 wounds like most knights and demon primarchs
That's... exaclty what I said in my first post, you know ?
Well, I do think the psy power can be pretty funny by teleporting dread characters 9" away from the opponent: surprise !
Or getting out of combat, but why would a RG character want this ?
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?
Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).
3CP to let stalker bolt rifles target characters, might actually be worth the cost for raven guard and let's not forget that a captain in Phobos armour can target characters as well and you can even make his weapon flat damage 4 and it's assault in the new Dex.
keep in mind eliminators can even snipe you behind concealing terrain, they're going to be a pretty nasty counter for "HeroHammer" armies. the Black Legion list I've got would proably be hurt pretty bad by ravenguard
"Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."
And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."
And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:
You probably didn't even spot the full squad of Infiltrators and Reivers that are also in that painting. They are mostly around the Librarian in Phobos armor way in the back with the tell-tale sign of his force sword. You have to know what you are looking for to see it though.
Galef wrote: No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-
Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?
Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.
Nope. Supplements are a $30 tax for 8 pages of bonus extra rules - 'doctrine' bonus, extra strats, relics, warlord traits and psyker discipline.
They're basically a pay-to-win book for doubling down on whatever type of gameplay already appealed to you (or for most players, whatever the Internet says is most broken).
Given how badly sniper play can mess up some armies, enjoy being part of the bandwagon.
BrianDavion wrote: so amusing thought, sniper rifles are mostly heavy weapons.. and the ravenguard ability works in tactical doctrine. D'OH :(
They probably thought that putting it in devastator would make it too powerful. No stacking bonuses from Devastator and you have a turn to hide your characters from Eliminators.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."
And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:
They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there. Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.
BrianDavion wrote: so amusing thought, sniper rifles are mostly heavy weapons.. and the ravenguard ability works in tactical doctrine. D'OH :(
They probably thought that putting it in devastator would make it too powerful. No stacking bonuses from Devastator and you have a turn to hide your characters from Eliminators.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."
And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:
They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.
Must be pretty boring work, there’s a raven guard sleeping on the ground under the standard bearer
They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.
At least those Tau are being treating as enemy warriors. This Space Wolf is taking away the Fire Warrior's weapon like like bully taking a nerd's lunch money.
They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.
At least those Tau are being treating as enemy warriors. This Space Wolf is taking away the Fire Warrior's weapon like like bully taking a nerd's lunch money.
Spoiler:
in fairness that's proably a pretty accurate image of what Tau vs Marines are like in CQC
I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.
Voss wrote: I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.
godardc wrote: Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...
Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.
Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.
Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?
Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).
There already is that stratagem for intercessors. 10 intercessors with Stalkers and the RG strat do massive damage to just about ever character in the game at 36".
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.
They're Tau. Why would anyone ever show any sympathy or pity for them?
[EDIT]: And I just realised that the Ancient is beating a Tau to death with the end of his standard. AHAHA! That picture is amazing.
BrianDavion wrote: in fairness that's proably a pretty accurate image of what Tau vs Marines are like in CQC
That piece of artwork is actually very good, showing just how good Marines are. Off to the right side of the pic is another Reiver just waving his gun back and forth at the Tau. To him it's like shooting a fish in a barrel. You can almost imagine the Firewarrior who can't move his gun wondering how strong the human he's fighting is to just hold his gun in place like that.
The Wolves are absolutely destroying those Tau, showing more evidence of how much fear Reivers can put in the enemy than their rules ever have.
Voss wrote: I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, he's also holding his thunder hammer 90 degrees to how you actually use a hammer.
ThatMG wrote: This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."
You mean the one that got an errata already?
"Page 57 – Master of Snares
Change this Warlord Trait to read:
‘When an enemy unit (other than a unit that contains a
model with a minimum Move characteristic) within 1" of
this Warlord is chosen to Fall Back, you can roll one D6;
on a 4+ that unit cannot Fall Back this turn."
ThatMG wrote: I read the raven guard rule and was like RIP Knight players who make their models characters.
This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."
However good enough.
Ravenguard are very much a niche role but they're VERY good at this niche. by and large I like what we're seeing so far. Ultramarines are fantastic generalists, and the other armies are vvery good at what they do (and what they do isn't very nice) but not as flexable.
ThatMG wrote: This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."
You mean the one that got an errata already?
"Page 57 – Master of Snares
Change this Warlord Trait to read:
‘When an enemy unit (other than a unit that contains a
model with a minimum Move characteristic) within 1" of
this Warlord is chosen to Fall Back, you can roll one D6;
on a 4+ that unit cannot Fall Back this turn."
That's good, because insta-killing flyers with this would've been some next level cheese.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Astartes have had a massive bump in power from these releases. I hope it's not too much of an increase.
Let's not forget that despite the definite uphill struggle, various SM lists habe managed to podium this year and recently, before these changes came into play. Tripling the damage output of a faction is no joke. Still, at least SM players will hopefully chill out now.
ThatMG wrote: This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."
You mean the one that got an errata already?
"Page 57 – Master of Snares
Change this Warlord Trait to read:
‘When an enemy unit (other than a unit that contains a
model with a minimum Move characteristic) within 1" of
this Warlord is chosen to Fall Back, you can roll one D6;
on a 4+ that unit cannot Fall Back this turn."
That's good, because insta-killing flyers with this would've been some next level cheese.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Astartes have had a massive bump in power from these releases. I hope it's not too much of an increase.
Let's not forget that despite the definite uphill struggle, various SM lists habe managed to podium this year and recently, before these changes came into play. Tripling the damage output of a faction is no joke. Still, at least SM players will hopefully chill out now.
MOST Space Marine players have been pretty chill. Don't let one or two overly salty people, make you think they're representives of SM players.
Voss wrote: I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, he's also holding his thunder hammer 90 degrees to how you actually use a hammer.
The composition is all kinds of odd. Not a good image.
Ravenguard are very much a niche role but they're VERY good at this niche.
I don't think that's good design.
except that "these chapters are specialsits and really really good at doing this one thing" has been the way the various 1st founders have always been made distinct so it's basicly what people want.
Ravenguard are very much a niche role but they're VERY good at this niche.
I don't think that's good design.
except that "these chapters are specialsits and really really good at doing this one thing" has been the way the various 1st founders have always been made distinct so it's basicly what people want.
Perhaps. It is still not good design. This RG rule for example is mostly kinda weak. However against foes with targetable characters (Daemon Primarchs, Hive Tyrants, Knights) it is insanely effective. Now those units are often a nuisance, so perhaps many people are not that worried for them becoming unplayable, but this is not a proper way to address them being too powerful. This sort of extreme rock-paper-scissors is bad, it doesn't result enjoyable gaming experience.
Ravenguard are very much a niche role but they're VERY good at this niche.
I don't think that's good design.
except that "these chapters are specialsits and really really good at doing this one thing" has been the way the various 1st founders have always been made distinct so it's basicly what people want.
Do they - how sad given that (IMO) thats what as compeltey ruined the look, style, lore and everything about the Wolves and Angels leading to abominations like Santa Logan
I doubt that +1 to wound would have massive impact on how fast Mortarion or Magnus die. Unlike Knights, they don't rely on superior toughness to survive, but layered defensive buffs and good saves. Bolters wounding on fours instead of fives is not going to make a huge difference.
Voss wrote: I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, he's also holding his thunder hammer 90 degrees to how you actually use a hammer.
When was the last time you used a thunder hammer to tenderize a fish?
after seeing the new supplements and actually buying the Ultramarines book, I'm really excited to see what actually happens to the Black Templars. Hopefully there will be a couple of ways to reliably get in close combat since Angels of Death makes them hit a bit harder to start with.
Man, Iron hands are going to be strong. The gun castles you can make are pretty absurd. Consider a leviathan with twin storm canons next to that -1 damage relic on a chapter master and popping the new strat that halves damage lol. So coolaid man is walking around hitting on 2's rerolling with an additional -1 on those storm canons and heavy flamers and if you dare charge him he averages like 19 hits when near the CM aura lol
That reduce damage relic is mental. It makes already good things like the new impulser border line OP. It's going to be fun cracking that nut lol.
New Eliminators kit sprue images. Interesting that each Eliminator is on his own sprue. Makes it easier to get some of the different options. I would expect to see the Sergeant sprue being available separately on eBay and for a decent chunk of change.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm still annoyed at the squad limits for them and the Autocannon dudes
Likewise. A squad of 5 with an IBC and four Las Fusils would be quite nice. It is especially stupid because the Sergeant can be built as a regular Bolt Sniper Rifle guy.
casvalremdeikun wrote: New Eliminators kit sprue images. Interesting that each Eliminator is on his own sprue. Makes it easier to get some of the different options. I would expect to see the Sergeant sprue being available separately on eBay and for a decent chunk of change.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm still annoyed at the squad limits for them and the Autocannon dudes
Likewise. A squad of 5 with an IBC and four Las Fusils would be quite nice. It is especially stupid because the Sergeant can be built as a regular Bolt Sniper Rifle guy.
I mean, I like running my Aggressors as 4 dudes to 5, so I'd like the same here.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm still annoyed at the squad limits for them and the Autocannon dudes
Likewise. A squad of 5 with an IBC and four Las Fusils would be quite nice. It is especially stupid because the Sergeant can be built as a regular Bolt Sniper Rifle guy.
I mean, I like running my Aggressors as 4 dudes to 5, so I'd like the same here.
The other stupid thing is the one Marine with a pistol drawn can't have a Las Fusil slung! I WANT OPTIONS! I might be able to convert a Shadowspear Bolt Sniper Rifle Marine to have a Las Fusil so I can out this cool pose BSR Marine in there instead.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm still annoyed at the squad limits for them and the Autocannon dudes
Likewise. A squad of 5 with an IBC and four Las Fusils would be quite nice. It is especially stupid because the Sergeant can be built as a regular Bolt Sniper Rifle guy.
I mean, I like running my Aggressors as 4 dudes to 5, so I'd like the same here.
The other stupid thing is the one Marine with a pistol drawn can't have a Las Fusil slung! I WANT OPTIONS! I might be able to convert a Shadowspear Bolt Sniper Rifle Marine to have a Las Fusil so I can out this cool pose BSR Marine in there instead.
They're moving away from options though. My guess is to try and better protect their IP from the 3rd party casters and such.
ThatMG wrote: I read the raven guard rule and was like RIP Knight players who make their models characters.
This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."
However good enough.
Knights in soup lists won't care. Face a Ravenguard player.....just don't spend the CP to become a character, simple.
This is one of those things that I hate. These "CP to become X" things shouldn't be able to get list tailored in anything barring a friendly, literally writing your list as you're getting ready to play instance.
Togusa wrote: They're moving away from options though. My guess is to try and better protect their IP from the 3rd party casters and such.
It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible. Both the death guard and the ork buggy kits seem to be doing this.
Jidmah wrote: It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible.
I doubt that either of those costs are what is driving this trend (and to me it doesn't look like the new kits have less design time put into them than the older ones, quite the opposite) but rather wanting to be able to produce more models with each mould machine, smaller boxes taking up less shelf space (a crucial consideration for a company which runs a lot of physical shops, apparently on quite tight margins) and being cheaper to ship.
One of the key aspects is that GW seem to be doing various levels of strength. Ergo You Have Chapter Tactic, Psychic Powers, Stratagems etc. Some have better in one group. So until you get all the info it is too early to judge.
Togusa wrote: They're moving away from options though. My guess is to try and better protect their IP from the 3rd party casters and such.
It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible. Both the death guard and the ork buggy kits seem to be doing this.
I think it is actually the other way around. Each project is given a sprue budget (size) based on the expected size of the finished model. Then the designer works to create as much cool stuff as he can fit on the sprue. Sometimes some things won’t fit on a sprue, but makes it into another kit later (alluded to in interviews). The monopose nature of modern minis seems more down to design philosophy than sprue space IMO. They want to maximize the visual impact of the finished build, that is why options are not prioritized. Hopefully it is just a trend, which with good feedback from the community, will pass in time.
Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.
I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.
I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!
I rather like the idea of eliminators, and the option lover within me loves the head choice. I just don’t have the motivation to do Primaris. I already bought six of them and assembled one. Not a lick of paint on them yet.
Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.
I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.
I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!
BOLS claims they'll be 50 bucks. not sure what their source is but useally when they announce the prices it's accurate
Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.
I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.
I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!
BOLS claims they'll be 50 bucks. not sure what their source is but useally when they announce the prices it's accurate
not bad. $100 this week. Something like $150 in three years when they actually get around to releasing the stupid Impulsor and when the Imperial Fists Supplement is release(provided the Crimson Fists are in said supplement).
Aren't there specific threads for discussing the various previewed chapters and their rules?
This thread is for discussing specific rumours in the OP, some of which are now proven to be false. Its very likely, given the mistake re the order of supplements, that the other rumours from this source are bogus too.
Since the original purpose of this thread is now passed, I don't know if the mods want to rename it and move it to an appropriate section of the forum, or close it?
Jidmah wrote: It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible.
I doubt that either of those costs are what is driving this trend (and to me it doesn't look like the new kits have less design time put into them than the older ones, quite the opposite) but rather wanting to be able to produce more models with each mould machine, smaller boxes taking up less shelf space (a crucial consideration for a company which runs a lot of physical shops, apparently on quite tight margins) and being cheaper to ship.
True, that might be an issue. too. You can fit three ork buggies where a single deff dread used to be.
Togusa wrote: They're moving away from options though. My guess is to try and better protect their IP from the 3rd party casters and such.
It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible. Both the death guard and the ork buggy kits seem to be doing this.
I think it is actually the other way around. Each project is given a sprue budget (size) based on the expected size of the finished model. Then the designer works to create as much cool stuff as he can fit on the sprue. Sometimes some things won’t fit on a sprue, but makes it into another kit later (alluded to in interviews). The monopose nature of modern minis seems more down to design philosophy than sprue space IMO. They want to maximize the visual impact of the finished build, that is why options are not prioritized. Hopefully it is just a trend, which with good feedback from the community, will pass in time.
Might be, but I also think that how miniatures are designed has had a huge impact. In the past the designers were sculpting prototypes and then tried to fit them onto a sprue, nowadays they are designing a finished model in CAD and then (with tool assistance) cut that miniature into pieces so it can be mould-injected. Adding options to a model designed like that is a lot more work because you don't actually have an arm-bit you just replace with something new, it's one of three half-a-torso-with-one-leg-and-an-arm bit that fit together as a single model.
Unless a designer explicitly designs a model with "slots" (heads, combi-bolters, close combat weapon arms, ork glyphs), it's pretty hard to add variance outside of leaving off extra bits.
It also seems like they already done their test with DG and primaris - there are customizable kits for intercessors, inceptors, foetid bloat drones and plague marines, as well as cheap ETB and starter set options for them. Scroll across army pictures on the gallery and check which ones are bought and which ones are not. We have already decided that money > options, and GW has responded accordingly.
It says 3 Bolt Sniper Rifles in the description, but it's 6. The unused ones (3 or 6 depending on whether you use Las-Fusils and how good you're at getting a spare arm to line up) can be easily given to a Phobos dude, you even get enough "sniper" heads for 9 plus 1 for the Bolt Carbine. Even without sourcing camo cloaks/sculpting them the less hobby inclined can easily kit-bash double/tripple the amount of readily identifiable Eliminators with cheaper bodies. That's actually quite cool. Cheaper prices overall would be even cooler, but I like the snipers and they'll give me a ton of bits, so, eh, I'll get some.
If they had those ridiculous Van Saar half-weapons I'd pass.
Well, the new iron father is pretty crazy, even thematically. An iron hands that doesn't like the more bionics fixation, but is the guy who chops off hands, and has superior bionics himself (5+ fnp).
Rules wise he gives out 2+ BS and 5++ invulnerable saves to other units. And isn't exactly a slouch in combat or shooting.
Weird, and seems a no-brainer choice for IH armies.
Yeah, those are some pretty phenomenal rules. He buffs so much stuff and buffs it so well. Definitely a top choice for Iron Hands. Very thematic and very potent. Congrats, Iron Hands players, very jealous indeed.
I am really liking the fact that thusfar, all of the special characters we are getting are Marines that have crossed the Rubicon, not Chad, new guy Primaris Marine.
Yeah, its worth noting that the only restriction for his buffs is iron hands. Dreads? Sure. 2+ BS repulsor executioner with 5+ invulnerable? fine (and he repairs 3 wounds, so it should almost always be at the top statline) He creates a ridiculously resilient death blob which works just fine with other character buffs.
buddha wrote: Very good rules depending on point costs. Will still need a captain though for the re-rolls.
Not if you‘re mono Iron Hands. They come with in-built re-rolls.
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Voss wrote: Yeah, its worth noting that the only restriction for his buffs is iron hands. Dreads? Sure. 2+ BS repulsor executioner with 5+ invulnerable? fine (and he repairs 3 wounds, so it should almost always be at the top statline) He creates a ridiculously resilient death blob which works just fine with other character buffs.
Don’t forget that Iron Hands Repulsors have the Hawkshroud/Iyanden rule for checking the profile anyhow.
Mentioned it. Repairing 3 wounds should be sufficient to keep it on the top stat line. Its either full function or completely obliterated, and now gets a 5++ to stay up.
TBD wrote: Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?
There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.
TBD wrote: Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?
There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.
There a rumours from an apparently fairly reputable source that Black Templar’s will get their rules as part of one of the Psychic Awakening books and that the Sons of Dorn book is IF and CF, but we’ll see how it all plays out.
TBD wrote: Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?
There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.
There a rumours from an apparently fairly reputable source that Black Templar’s will get their rules as part of one of the Psychic Awakening books and that the Sons of Dorn book is IF and CF, but we’ll see how it all plays out.
I really suspect that this is the case. Makes kinda sense.
Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.
dsraider1 wrote: Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.
Codex compliant doesn't matter for data sheets or rules or tabletop performance. As demonstrated by the Angels chapters, codex or non-codex doesn't even matter if a chapter gets a special snowflake book or not. BT have a couple extra special characters and a weird mixed troop unit, and that's it. For the purposes of a supplement they don't need anything CFs or IFs dont.
The sons of Dorn can all be put in a single supplement that's still smaller than the Ultramarine one. GW has plenty of room to handle them any way they want to. and I say that while looking forward to the IF book.
dsraider1 wrote: Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.
Codex compliant doesn't matter for data sheets or rules or tabletop performance. As demonstrated by the Angels chapters, codex or non-codex doesn't even matter if a chapter gets a special snowflake book or not. BT have a couple extra special characters and a weird mixed troop unit, and that's it. For the purposes of a supplement they don't need anything CFs or IFs dont.
The sons of Dorn can all be put in a single supplement that's still smaller than the Ultramarine one. GW has plenty of room to handle them any way they want to. and I say that while looking forward to the IF book.
Codex compliance actually is reflected in the rules now though, via doctrines. Only compliant chapters get them, and they don't make much sense for BT, who would arguably benefit from more aggressive rules. Also, IF traits and stratagems probably wouldn't reflect BT very well. Thus, you'd be better off writing BT rules from scratch instead of forcing them to use IF as a base. If they share no rules, why put them in the book?
Because the 'rules' section of the supplements so far has been about 1/8 of the (very short) supplement books.
They don't need to use IF as a base even if they do share a book, but it saves a lot of copypasta to put the related chapters together. Otherwise, you're just repeating info about Dorn and the feast of blades multiple times to no point or purpose.
Though doctrines have zip to do with codex compliance. If it did, neither BT nor even Salamanders (7 companies of 12 squads isn't what the codex mandates) would get them, and obviously they do. And DA and BA would get them already, and currently don't. Personally, I'd say 'codex compliant' means a lot less than people like to believe.
In any case, with the chapter specific doctrine bonuses so far its easy to show that its more about preferred tactics and nothing to do with the 'codex'- which doesn't forbid or encourage stabbing people double hard or sniper shots to the face. It's just what WS and RG do.
Some of the White Scars dice came mislabeled as Salamanders dice, so there’s the general assumption that they’ll be coming yet as well. I’m anxiously awaiting them.
AduroT wrote: Some of the White Scars dice came mislabeled as Salamanders dice, so there’s the general assumption that they’ll be coming yet as well. I’m anxiously awaiting them.
Hopefully? I don't recall seeing any dice for Raven Guard and Iron Hands in the preview article. Are they getting any and GW just didn't feel like mention it?
Because it would be kind of silly to give half the chapters special dice while the other half gets nothing. Would go pretty well with my expectation that I get nothing for my Imperial Fists because reasons, but wouldn't help one bit.
Kanluwen wrote: Frankly, the biggest "non-codex compliant" thing for Black Templars is the whole Neophytes thing.
And that can be a special unit in a supplement.
More than the Angels and Wolves had before they got spun off into Supplements and flandersised to the nine hundreth degree.
Space Wolves began as an example of standard Marine Chapter.....
Frankly most Chapters if they had supplements and codexes would have as many truly "Unique" units as the Angels and Wolves - ie one or two.
Would that be in Rogue Trader then?
Because in 2nd, they had everything they have today, except for Wulfen (which still existed in fluff and on artifacts like the "pelt of wulfen" and the "Wulfenstone") and the Thunderwolf riders/Santa Chariot.
-Wolfy Wolf on all their stuff. Wolf Guard, Wolf Lords, Wolf Priests, Wolf-themed artifacts, Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, etc.
-Rules like "Ragnar may howl at the beginning of his turn."
IIRC they got significantly less wolfy with their first actual supplement rulebook in 3rd. They DID get access to a Leman Russ tank in that book though, for a short crazy moment.
I find it interesting that he lets you reroll charges for jump pack AND phobos. As if those guys could actually keep up with the Chapter Master. Looking at the model, I'm guessing Shrike himself won't have the phobos keyword, but you never know. It'd be relevant for the phobos librarian discipline.
Maybe it's silly, but I'm annoyed that the Ultramarines got a number of special units (including their Tyrannic War Vets) while so far it looks like the rest of the chapters just get a single special character. I guess White Scars also got the Khan on a Bike.
Because in 2nd, they had everything they have today, except for Wulfen (which still existed in fluff and on artifacts like the "pelt of wulfen" and the "Wulfenstone") and the Thunderwolf riders/Santa Chariot.
Also Murderfang and the Fliers.
I.e. any of the stupid stuff people usually complain about didn't exist.
IIRC they got significantly less wolfy with their first actual supplement rulebook in 3rd. They DID get access to a Leman Russ tank in that book though, for a short crazy moment.
Now that was a good unique unit for them! Such a shame it got removed.
Man they should have at least given those claws +1 strength.
Seems good but also seems like his reroll charge aura ability will be counter intuitive in game. Go in first with shrike but then your other models are too far away to benefit from the reroll charge aura
Benionin wrote: I find it interesting that he lets you reroll charges for jump pack AND phobos. As if those guys could actually keep up with the Chapter Master. Looking at the model, I'm guessing Shrike himself won't have the phobos keyword, but you never know. It'd be relevant for the phobos librarian discipline.
Maybe it's silly, but I'm annoyed that the Ultramarines got a number of special units (including their Tyrannic War Vets) while so far it looks like the rest of the chapters just get a single special character. I guess White Scars also got the Khan on a Bike.
I think he has both phobos and jump pack. They say in the description "his phobos suit of armor"
An Actual Englishman wrote: Anyone else getting bored of the continued and seemingly never-ending Marine previews now?
I'm at the stage where I'm ready for anything else.
I hope this psychic awakening thing gets moving soon.
Everybody is annoyed by it, the marine players included. They're dragging this release over several months, an no one is happy about it. All of this should have been just released with the codex and then they could have moved to other things.
Benionin wrote: I find it interesting that he lets you reroll charges for jump pack AND phobos. As if those guys could actually keep up with the Chapter Master. Looking at the model, I'm guessing Shrike himself won't have the phobos keyword, but you never know. It'd be relevant for the phobos librarian discipline.
Maybe it's silly, but I'm annoyed that the Ultramarines got a number of special units (including their Tyrannic War Vets) while so far it looks like the rest of the chapters just get a single special character. I guess White Scars also got the Khan on a Bike.
You can grav shoot in reivers wherever shrike is and get a rerollable charge off. If they hadn't included phobos you would be stuck with shooting dudes for primaris jump troops who would be able to use that aura.
Kanluwen wrote: Frankly, the biggest "non-codex compliant" thing for Black Templars is the whole Neophytes thing.
And that can be a special unit in a supplement.
No.
Let me suggest codex armageddon. 3rd ed. Nice read.
Read it. Much like many other Chapters, a lot of what makes them unique(their over-sized Chapter nature, religious zealotry, etc) can't really quantify well on the tabletop.
Crusader Squads, Emperor's Champion, and no Librarians are really the 'hallmarks' of the Black Templars...and out of those, only really the Crusader Squads would need representation.
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Benionin wrote: I find it interesting that he lets you reroll charges for jump pack AND phobos. As if those guys could actually keep up with the Chapter Master. Looking at the model, I'm guessing Shrike himself won't have the phobos keyword, but you never know. It'd be relevant for the phobos librarian discipline.
Ehh...I don't think it too crazy to consider it as part of a 'massed drop' setup for Reivers with Grav-Chutes and BP/CCWs.
They call Shrike's gear out as Phobos, so I'd be surprised as well if he doesn't have it as a keyword.
Maybe it's silly, but I'm annoyed that the Ultramarines got a number of special units (including their Tyrannic War Vets) while so far it looks like the rest of the chapters just get a single special character. I guess White Scars also got the Khan on a Bike.
Wasn't it just two units? Victrix Guard and the Tyrannic War Veterans?
Although yeah, it does look like barring the White Scars nobody else is even getting anything beyond named characters.
They are getting what they already had, or an upgraded version of an old character, with the exception being IH.
Ultramarines already had all of the models that made it into their Supplement. The Honour Guard kit was always a UM one, and the Chapter Ancient/Champion that comes with that kit are also UM models. Tigurius is the 'upgraded' one.
bullyboy wrote: Not making the claws at least S5 is ridiculous. This guy is a chump, lightning claws just don't get the job done.
He has shred so hes wounding ~75% of the time vs t4 and ~55% verse t5-t7 and ~89% vs t3. The fact that it is ap -2 and damage 2 is what makes them awesome. -2* is the sweet spot since most durable things also have invulns anyway and it blows through light armor and damage 2 means his volume of attacks REALLY pay off. You also have to remember the raven guard doctrine applies in assault.
I guess folks just want another model that plays itself again
*Edit. lol they are even -3 which I missed. So he eats other primaris as well.
bullyboy wrote: Even with reroll, S4 is crap for a Chapter Master. He'll get chewed alive.
You can say that, but your wrong. The math I shared demonstrates that. Having shred is better then him having s7.
BTW that's also if you willfully ignore the +1 to wound vs characters, which is probably the most durable thing you could complain about him having to tackle. That is until the inevitable, "but he can't blow through a knight" argument appears.
yeah the whole "IT CAN'T KILL A KNIGHT SO IT SUCKS" arguement is honestly a bit annoying. not every model should be a knight killer. Shrike isn't designed to kill kngiths he's designed to kill HQs etc.
I think the main issue is people are comparing him to Feirros, who comparatively speaking adds way more to the table compared to Shrike. Shrike is fine ruleswise, it'll really depend how they price him and whether or not he really brings that much to a RG army besides the usual CM reroll.
The Chapter Master buff has been worth about 50 points on other named models, and Shrike has a lot more direct damage potential than a standard Cap with jump pack.
Apparently Feirros is 110 points, people say that it was revealed in Warhamer TV stream. Sounds pretty damn unbelievable to me.
The Chapter Master buff has been worth about 50 points on other named models, and Shrike has a lot more direct damage potential than a standard Cap with jump pack.
