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 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

 godardc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or except your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

Your opinion is your own, clearly, but I'm happy with it.

 godardc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

Its almost as if the chapter that specializes in assassination is expected to use weapons specialized for assassination.

 godardc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?

Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).

I don't have the new SM codex to find the answer, but are eliminators still allowed to target characters with their las-fusels?

If so then those mini lascannons are sniping characters on 2+ to hit and most likely wound as well.

Ouch.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't have the new SM codex to find the answer, but are eliminators still allowed to target characters with their las-fusels?

If so then those mini lascannons are sniping characters on 2+ to hit and most likely wound as well.

Ouch.

I don't think so, I think its just Bolt Sniper Rifles than can target characters. You do get different firing options though, and I recall one of them being quite nasty.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't have the new SM codex to find the answer, but are eliminators still allowed to target characters with their las-fusels?

If so then those mini lascannons are sniping characters on 2+ to hit and most likely wound as well.

Ouch.

I don't think so, I think its just Bolt Sniper Rifles than can target characters. You do get different firing options though, and I recall one of them being quite nasty.

No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers

-

Its not just snipers. Close combat weapons get the bonus and a lot of the best characters aren't less than 10 wounds like most knights and demon primarchs

 Galef wrote:
No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-

Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?

Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-

Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?

Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.

No, you're still using codex space marines. You just get more abilities. In a few months every SM army will be from a supplement.

"This is the STEALTH army!" *shows a pack of Termis with roaring chainweapons and tossing fools around while their buddy enthusiastically waves his banner*

Between a shiny new supplement and the madman Spikeyjames painting a metric ton of them in no time (to be fair, what DOESN'T he paint while you're lpoking away for bit) I'm tempted to make Ravenguard my full SM army instead of Silver Skulls or Crimspn Fists. All that black AND white, though, seems scary when you're a slow painter.

 Kirasu wrote:
Its not just snipers. Close combat weapons get the bonus and a lot of the best characters aren't less than 10 wounds like most knights and demon primarchs

That's... exaclty what I said in my first post, you know ?

Well, I do think the psy power can be pretty funny by teleporting dread characters 9" away from the opponent: surprise !
Or getting out of combat, but why would a RG character want this ?

 godardc wrote:

Or getting out of combat, but why would a RG character want this ?

So you can pump a bunch of eliminator shots into a character you were dueling and use a stratagem to charge something else?

WhiteDog wrote:

 godardc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?

Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).

3CP to let stalker bolt rifles target characters, might actually be worth the cost for raven guard and let's not forget that a captain in Phobos armour can target characters as well and you can even make his weapon flat damage 4 and it's assault in the new Dex.

keep in mind eliminators can even snipe you behind concealing terrain, they're going to be a pretty nasty counter for "HeroHammer" armies. the Black Legion list I've got would proably be hurt pretty bad by ravenguard

"Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."

And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."

And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:

You probably didn't even spot the full squad of Infiltrators and Reivers that are also in that painting. They are mostly around the Librarian in Phobos armor way in the back with the tell-tale sign of his force sword. You have to know what you are looking for to see it though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
No, Las-fusils cannot target Characters like Bolt Snipers can. I personally think this was a good choice as otherwise, why bother with the Snipers
-

Because the Bolt Sniper Rifles get variable ammo while Las-fusils don't?

Do the supplements specifically preclude you from getting access to the Space Marines stratagems? Because if not, then Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles can get a hefty boost with the stratagem that lets them target characters.

Nope. Supplements are a $30 tax for 8 pages of bonus extra rules - 'doctrine' bonus, extra strats, relics, warlord traits and psyker discipline.

They're basically a pay-to-win book for doubling down on whatever type of gameplay already appealed to you (or for most players, whatever the Internet says is most broken).

Given how badly sniper play can mess up some armies, enjoy being part of the bandwagon.

so amusing thought, sniper rifles are mostly heavy weapons.. and the ravenguard ability works in tactical doctrine. D'OH :(

Did Black Templars always have a separate tab under the "Imperium" section on the GW site? Could lead credence to the whole BT rumor

BrianDavion wrote:
so amusing thought, sniper rifles are mostly heavy weapons.. and the ravenguard ability works in tactical doctrine. D'OH :(

They probably thought that putting it in devastator would make it too powerful. No stacking bonuses from Devastator and you have a turn to hide your characters from Eliminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."

And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:

They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so amusing thought, sniper rifles are mostly heavy weapons.. and the ravenguard ability works in tactical doctrine. D'OH :(

They probably thought that putting it in devastator would make it too powerful. No stacking bonuses from Devastator and you have a turn to hide your characters from Eliminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Clad in midnight-black power armour, the Raven Guard are one with the shadows, emerging from the darkness to slaughter the enemies of Mankind with a cold, silent fury."

And to demonstrate this, here's a picture of Raven Guard Terminators slaughtering Tau in close combat in broad daylight:

They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.

Must be pretty boring work, there’s a raven guard sleeping on the ground under the standard bearer

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.

At least those Tau are being treating as enemy warriors. This Space Wolf is taking away the Fire Warrior's weapon like like bully taking a nerd's lunch money.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


They were clearly all hiding behind a large rock and ambushed the Tau from there.
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.

At least those Tau are being treating as enemy warriors. This Space Wolf is taking away the Fire Warrior's weapon like like bully taking a nerd's lunch money.

Spoiler:

in fairness that's proably a pretty accurate image of what Tau vs Marines are like in CQC

I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.

Voss wrote:
I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.

the answer for that is obvious

GaroRobe wrote:
Did Black Templars always have a separate tab under the "Imperium" section on the GW site? Could lead credence to the whole BT rumor

Good catch.

I'm 90% they did not and their kits have been part of the SM entry.

WhiteDog wrote:

 godardc wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are you all playing 5th edition ? You CANNOT target characters...

Unless the weapon allows for it(sniper rifles/bolt sniper rifles/master crafted instigator bolt carbines) or the character is closer than any enemy units that aren't characters.

Yes and ? So you have to get special situations and gear or expect your opponent to play badly for it to work while others doctrines just...work on everyone in almost every situation ? That just prove my point that it's underwhelming.

Between snipers and eliminators you have many weapons to do so. Plus, who says that we will not have some kind of strategem to enable basic units to shoot at characters ?

Finally, this doctrine is absolutly great for all characters that have more than 9 HP (it's great to shoot at Knights for exemple).

There already is that stratagem for intercessors. 10 intercessors with Stalkers and the RG strat do massive damage to just about ever character in the game at 36".

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Also, does anyone feel sorry for that Tau who's about to get a hammer to the face? That's a really bad day there.

They're Tau. Why would anyone ever show any sympathy or pity for them?

[EDIT]: And I just realised that the Ancient is beating a Tau to death with the end of his standard. AHAHA! That picture is amazing.

BrianDavion wrote:
in fairness that's proably a pretty accurate image of what Tau vs Marines are like in CQC

That piece of artwork is actually very good, showing just how good Marines are. Off to the right side of the pic is another Reiver just waving his gun back and forth at the Tau. To him it's like shooting a fish in a barrel. You can almost imagine the Firewarrior who can't move his gun wondering how strong the human he's fighting is to just hold his gun in place like that.

The Wolves are absolutely destroying those Tau, showing more evidence of how much fear Reivers can put in the enemy than their rules ever have.

Voss wrote:
I'm rather curious why the Terminator has a second thunder hammer glued to his other hip and why he's kinda got T-rex arms. The intercessors have a lot of reach by comparison.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, he's also holding his thunder hammer 90 degrees to how you actually use a hammer.