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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: koooaei
You need biovores to eliminate markers asap. Without markers, tau are not that deadly.
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Post by: carldooley
why play lengthwise against tau? why play a normal game? play Maelstrom, considering that your opponent has 2 OS units, and you have 2-3?
How are you using your Flyrant? If I was playing, I'd push your flyrant to the Hammerheads immediately.
Don't reserve your units. break them up into min size units, and push them forward.
What koooaei said is kind of useless, as I don't see many markerlight applicable units. OTOH, they will remove the firewarriors with few problems.
DON'T RESERVE YOUR UNITS! you seem to be using them individually - don't do this, as together they work better. Keep the Tervigon by the 'Gaunts to spawn more as they get killed off. Keep the venomthrope behind the Tervigon so that its cover save is buffed by the meatball. You should always be able to take a cover save with this blob, I don't see enough markerlights to grant ignore cover.
I'm currently unfamiliar with Hive Commander. Does it allow a single unit to outflank? if so, then outflank either the Zoanthroape or the Flyrant.
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: Solar Shock
A) its not impossible to get into its side arc, plus what hes saying is, your flyrant should be going straight for his hammerheads, due to it being a MFC and has far greater movement than the rest of your list.
B) the min squad is a good idea, as tau have the ability to put out some serious firepower into single units etc.. but by breaking up you are simply saturating his ability to shoot you all.
C) Not sure as i dont play tau, i didn't realise pirahnas and firewarriors had the ability to apply markerlights? Thats what I thought pathfinder teams were for?
D) He's saying use your Tervigon to LOS and give cover to your zonethrope, not to use your gaunts to shield the tervi. Hes also saying by keeping the tervi close to the gaunts the respawns will allow you to pump out the gaunts exactly where they were lost (ie, have the tau dude brick it as every single time he removes some gaunts they are back next turn and closer  )
I get that your frustrated, but you came here to ask for help, recieved help and then basically dismissed it all bar 1 bit of advice?
Plus also, as he mentioned, your playing lengthwise, with almost no cover in the midfield bar that one building, as an assault army against a gunline army..... Consider this; its currently massively in your disadvantage to play this way. Put some more cover down, play maelstrom or missions where its width ways and your not simply walking up a board each turn waiting to get shot.
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Post by: carldooley
What rules are you using? Piranhas do not have 4 markerlights. (P. 47, 101, Tau Empire Codex)
If your opponent is couching the marker drones in the firewarrior squads, he would be better served using squads of 6 with EMP grenades. You didn't say that they were markerdrones. and it isn't optimal. The way you described his list, he is using the squads in the same way that you buy them - stealth teams come with one Marker Drone, Firewarrior squads come with 2 Gun Drones, etc.
Why are you worried about facing with the hammerheads? I assume that your Flyrant is a dakka one? 2 sets of TL Devourers with BLWs? You aren't going to be doing much against AV13, true, but assaulting them is feasible, as your opponent is not equipping either the Point Defense Targeting Relay or Longstrike. and the zoanthroape? don't you still have access to the Str10 AP1 Lance power?
To get cover, the tervigon only needs 25% cover, which is rather easily done with gaunts. (P. 37, rulebook)
How is your opponent downing your flyrant? He doesn't have Skyfire. If it is just luck, he is a good roller - ask him to use a cup or a dice tower when playing (or ask to use his dice). Don't tell me you are starting your Flyrant off in Hover?!?
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Post by: morgoth
1. That hammerhead is partly outside of the table, i.e. dead or should be moved back inside a bit.
2. Lengthwise should only happen one game out of three.
3. There should be 25% of the table in terrain, a good third should be LOS blocking like ruins, another third like hills (tend to block some LOS)
4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 carldooley wrote:
Why are you worried about facing with the hammerheads? I assume that your Flyrant is a dakka one? 2 sets of TL Devourers with BLWs? You aren't going to be doing much against AV13, true, but assaulting them is feasible, as your opponent is not equipping either the Point Defense Targeting Relay or Longstrike. and the zoanthroape? don't you still have access to the Str10 AP1 Lance power?
The hammerhead is a long rectangle for AV side purposes, it can always be hit on its side armor, plus there are Electroshock grubs, it shouldn't be an issue.
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Post by: carldooley
Oh yeah - take a look at the hammerheads. In Sixth, that was an illegal deployment, if he tries that again, tell him they are destroyed or in reserve. (P. 132, Rulebook) off the table is Impassable.
**edit** ninja'd by morgoth 
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Post by: Vector Strike
morgoth wrote:4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.
I don't think anyone would like to play against 180 termies. Friend of mine tried once against poor dark angels. He noticed how slow the game became and the no-fun for his opponent - and will never play that again.
Anything besides castled AM would play that... or orks (because all fights are proppa fights)
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Post by: morgoth
 Vector Strike wrote:morgoth wrote:4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.
I don't think anyone would like to play against 180 termies. Friend of mine tried once against poor dark angels. He noticed how slow the game became and the no-fun for his opponent - and will never play that again.
Anything besides castled AM would play that... or orks (because all fights are proppa fights)
Definitely would consider movement trays for termagants or footguard.
Not using them would mean insane model moving skills  - or as you mentioned, a horribly annoying game.
If my opponent was like your friend, I would ask his permission to move half his models to speed the thing up.
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Post by: cyberjonesy
You are playing tyranids so it is a losing battle to begin with. Then there is the terrain you play on... it is completely open, all you have is a small centerpiece that barely makes the size of what most ruins cover on my gaming club's tables. So expect to get shot out of existence by anything with decent shooting (which is exactly where tau excel).
Personally I would not play a game in theese conditions, it will just end up in you being frustrated with your bugs and you will go home thinking about new units to buy or trade armies altogether.
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Post by: CrownAxe
You're table has pretty much no terrain. you need a lot more LoS blockers. Playing longways on the table is always a huge boon to gunlines but that's only a 1/3 of the deployments.
IDK what you mission was but Tau are bad at Maelstrom missions. They generally require a lot of mobility which the Tau are very lacking on mobility without giving up a lot of their damage. I'd suggest trying a game with those missions.
IDK how you guys built your lists for the game but don't let your opponent build his list with Nids in mind. Tau have a tool for everything so can easily tailor thier lists for anything. try and get your opponents to have their list ready before they see your list.
Also FMC spam works well because of everything having hard to hit and still doing decent damage. Sure they have markerlights but you still greatly reduce your incoming damage by making those initial marker lights hit on 6's and forcing them to use marker lights to hit at all instead of hitting with amazing accuracy or removing cover saves.
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Post by: Vector Strike
 CrownAxe wrote:Also FMC spam works well because of everything having hard to hit and still doing decent damage. Sure they have markerlights but you still greatly reduce your incoming damage by making those initial marker lights hit on 6's and forcing them to use marker lights to hit at all instead of hitting with amazing accuracy or removing cover saves.
Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)
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Post by: carldooley
Vector Strike wrote:Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)
none of which was in the list that he played against. While the Burst-tide may have had a VT, it wasn't mentioned in the initial brief.
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Post by: Vector Strike
carldooley wrote: Vector Strike wrote:Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)
none of which was in the list that he played against. While the Burst-tide may have had a VT, it wasn't mentioned in the initial brief.
Yes, but after 1 game against the suggested FMCs, do you think he'll keep the same units?
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Post by: Frozocrone
I'm surprised you're getting beaten by this with that list - the only thing I can really put it down to is a poor table with little terrain and the fact that Hammer and Anvil Deployment was used.
Oh and sub-optimal units xD Replace Tervigon with Flyrant and cut down on the swarms to get some Mawlocs/Biovores. Best way to beat a gunline army are those two units (Mawloc will be insanely helpful against the Deathstar unit
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Post by: carldooley
Vector Strike wrote:Yes, but after 1 game against the suggested FMCs, do you think he'll keep the same units?
You can certainly pray that he will keep taking 3 flamers on his suits. There are FAR more effective builds.
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: locarno24
??? No matter how many gaunts are in front of the Tervigon, it never gets a cover save because my opponent can see 50%. Plus, he'll just kill the Venom before the Tervigon.
You only need to be 25% obscured to get a cover save.
Also, if it has so much as the tip of a claw inside a wood or ruins, it gets a cover save.
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Post by: carldooley
Verviedi wrote:]I cannot get within 18 inches without being shot to death.]
hence outflanking with the Zoan.
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Post by: Asmodas
Zoanthropes aren't for taking out vehicles - too short ranged. They should hang back with the gaunts to keep them in line, and take pot shots when they get a chance, but otherwise, they provide synapse and psychic support. You can't outflank the Zoan with Hive Commander anyway, as it only applies to troops. Master of Ambush could do it, but that is random.
As others have mentioned, you need more terrain on that board, and you should be rolling to determine table halves. He shouldn't get to pick the side that's on the hill every time.
In addition, that Flyrant should have Electroshock Grubs. For only 10 points, it gives you the option to Haywire those tanks. That could be huge.
And, consider getting a Mawloc or two. Mawlocs can really mess up gunline Tau, as they can kill suits with their S6 AP2 large blasts that hit twice before they come in. They are random, of course, so it is best to take 2, but even 1 Mawloc can ruin your opponents' day if he castles up (as even if it scatters it is likely to hit something when everything is packed together). Once the Mawloc is in play, it can then charge the Hammerheads and Smash them, or it can reburrow if there is nothing good nearby to assault. It also tends to mess with your opponent's head, as he will be worried about getting hit by the Mawloc, and hence might spread his stuff out more (which is generally good for you, as you can then try to take on part of his army with all of yours, giving you the advantage).
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Post by: SBG
Seriously?
That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.
Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.
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Post by: Desubot
Yeah honestly the table is barren
Electroworm would be good.
Outflanking may put the fire in there pants
Get more terrain
Mawlocs for general hijinks is good too as above suggested.
Priorities should be kill the markerlights then troops then hold objectives
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Post by: carldooley
Asmodas wrote:You can't outflank the Zoan with Hive Commander anyway, as it only applies to troops. Master of Ambush could do it, but that is random.
noted.
as Frozocrone said, the Flyrant is superior to the Tervigon in just about every way. Are Tervigons still able to be taken as troops (as they could in the previous Codex)? If so, you have your Hive Commander target. Also, this isn't warmachine (everything moves at the same time) - you can have the gaunt units touching the tervigon, so justifying a cover save should be easy enough.
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: Asmodas
In general, the OP should read the main Tyranid thread. Jy2 has lots of batreps on there against Tau, and I think he is undefeated. He has lots of great advice for dealing with Tau. He also tends to use a lot of FMCs (and no Tervigons, notably).
Terv is definitely not the best. It's a little expensive for what it does, and is slow with no ranged weapons. The last thing you need against gunline Tau is more gaunts. You really need more fast MCs, like Crones and Mawlocs and Flyrants, so you can get in his face early and start taking stuff out before it has had a chance to do its damage. If you are just walking across the table with one Flyrant, guess who is going to get shot down first?
Also, gargoyles. They are very fast, can fill the "wall of bodies" need, and can tie up Riptides and suits. Plus, they have poison 6+ stock, and can therefore actually put wounds on Riptides if you are lucky.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote: carldooley wrote:What rules are you using? Piranhas do not have 4 markerlights. (P. 47, 101, Tau Empire Codex)
7th ed. Latest edition.
Not if the Piranhas have Markerlights. That is Tetra's that have markerlights.
But as others have said, you need terrain on that table, it is giving the game to the Tau. Mawloc's could be fun if dicey, a Crone would be effective, even Ravenors and shrikes would be useful DS in and get side shots on the hammerhead. Outflanking large broods of stealers are even good at moving that hammerhead. Automatically Appended Next Post: Verviedi wrote:SBG wrote:Seriously?
That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.
Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.
I didn't agree to anything. He started deploying while I was painting some gaunts and then asked if I wanted to play him.
Then you should have had him start back at the top of how to prepare for a battle. By playing a game on a table you let him setup and predeploy on you set your self up to lose.
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Post by: kungfujew
The way I play every game is with the 6th ed terrain placement. It's random, fair and works regardless of if I'm using my Tyranids or a long range choas marines army or IG.
Divide the table into 6 2x2 sections. Roll a d3 for each and alternate putting one large, medium or 1-3 small pieces of terrain per number rolled in an of the 2x2 squares.
I would never play on a table like the one pictured, since it removes all the strategy from the game. A "proper" game's most important phase is the movement phase. That's where you will win or lose and that maneuver and counter move is the element that makes it so much fun.
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Post by: SBG
Verviedi wrote:SBG wrote:Seriously?
That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.
Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.
I didn't agree to anything. He started deploying while I was painting some gaunts and then asked if I wanted to play him.
You could have agreed to a game, then begun a proper game. Where you deploy as per the rules.
Next time, eh!
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Post by: azazel70820
Also, gaunts give the tervigon the cover save. It doesn't need to be 25%. That's only for vehicles.
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Post by: morganfreeman
Inform this player that the tables are there for playing games, not bending fellow hobby-goers over. Playing lengthwise AND only having 3 or so pieces of terrain, against a short ranged / assault army.. That's not just stacking the deck, it's dealing someone uno cards.
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: carldooley
Verviedi wrote:Riptide now has 2 twin-linked missile pods and an ion accelerator.
with a riptide, the support systems are arguably more important than what it is armed with.
**edit** oh, and that is an invalid build. the riptide can only have one secondary weapon system. Don't get me wrong, there is the ability to fire it twice, but it carries its own opportunity cost (and the reason why I enjoy that particular weapon so much).
**edit** **edit** Oh and again, Missile Pods are not a valid secondary system. Missile Pods are 36" Str7 AP4 Assault 2. SMS is 30" Str5 AP5 Ignores Cover, (and another special rule) Heavy 4
if your opponent tried this, he pulled another one on you. I'd suggest refusing another game.
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Post by: zerosignal
Check the tyranid thread for a viable core build.
You're likely to want:
2 Flyrants, twin devourers with BL, electroshock grubs
venomthropes
zoanthropes
troops - cheap gaunts or deepstriking rippers in some combination
2 hive crones
carnifexes with devourers
this gives you a good viable core
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: Jackal
For what its worth, try taking a mawloc in a game to see what damage it does to a castle style army.
Should cause enough disruption to atleast get the tyrant into them aswell.
I would consider a 2nd flyrant though.
It seems they always have and always will be a solid choice in a nid army.
That would also increase the targets and add another FMC to the list.
Yes, tau can deal with FMC's, however, with this guys list, it is not built for shooting things down, so any FMC you can take is a bonus.
Due to poor terrain and board edges, you need either speed or target saturation (both if you can) as this has always been a strong point for nids.
Also, take a look at JY2's threads on here.
He is the go to guy for nids and you will learn a ton just by reading some of his stuff.
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Post by: Verviedi
 Jackal wrote:For what its worth, try taking a mawloc in a game to see what damage it does to a castle style army.
Should cause enough disruption to atleast get the tyrant into them aswell.
I would consider a 2nd flyrant though.
It seems they always have and always will be a solid choice in a nid army.
That would also increase the targets and add another FMC to the list.
Yes, tau can deal with FMC's, however, with this guys list, it is not built for shooting things down, so any FMC you can take is a bonus.
Due to poor terrain and board edges, you need either speed or target saturation (both if you can) as this has always been a strong point for nids.
Also, take a look at JY2's threads on here.
He is the go to guy for nids and you will learn a ton just by reading some of his stuff.
I like the idea of FMC spam.
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Post by: Asmodas
Verviedi wrote:zerosignal wrote:Check the tyranid thread for a viable core build.
You're likely to want:
2 Flyrants, twin devourers with BL, electroshock grubs Another one? $60
venomthropes How many?
zoanthropes How many?
troops - cheap gaunts or deepstriking rippers in some combination I have them.
2 hive crones Price gouged to the max. $130
carnifexes with devourers I have one, and will make another
this gives you a good viable core
The second Flyrant is good to have, but I only have one and it is fine most of the time.
1 Venomthrope is all you need.
Zoanthropes are optional - not really necessary if you have enough synapse.
1 Crone is really all you need. If you have two, you will kill most of the good targets early and they will have little to do in the late game except vector strike.
Dakkafexes are always good.
Definitely look into the Mawloc against Tau. If I were you, I would buy a Venomthrope right away (not too expensive), a Crone and maybe a Mawloc at some point later down the road. Forget the Zoans - I've never seen mine pull their weight, so they basically are just cheap synapse pegs.
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Post by: barnowl
Asmodas wrote:Verviedi wrote:
The second Flyrant is good to have, but I only have one and it is fine most of the time.
1 Venomthrope is all you need.
Zoanthropes are optional - not really necessary if you have enough synapse.
1 Crone is really all you need. If you have two, you will kill most of the good targets early and they will have little to do in the late game except vector strike.
Dakkafexes are always good.
Definitely look into the Mawloc against Tau. If I were you, I would buy a Venomthrope right away (not too expensive), a Crone and maybe a Mawloc at some point later down the road. Forget the Zoans - I've never seen mine pull their weight, so they basically are just cheap synapse pegs.
Depends on how long you want the Shroud to last for or spread as to if one VT is enough.
Being Synpase pegs for cheap IS pulling there weight, for the zoanthrope. If you do not need the anchor, don't bring them.
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Post by: zerosignal
zoans act as backfield synapse and give you warp charge
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Post by: Fragile
I think part of your problem is having things in reserve as was already mentioned.
First thing you should do is ignore those Hammerhead. Go for everything else he has first.
The Riptide you have two options for. Either Ignore it or tarpit it with gaunts. If you can multi-assault it and another unit, always do that and hope for a sweep. Otherwise just pin it in place with your expendable units.
Dont Outflank the Tervigon. March up up the board and spawn gaunts as needed.
Drop the HVC from the Carnifex and go for 2 Devourers. Use that same loadout on the HT as well.
Think about picking up Biovores. They give you much needed range and they also melt fire warriors. They allow you to take out Markerlight units at long range.
Hide the Venomthrope out of LOS and out of Range as much as possible to start. Keep your gaunts in front of your bigger monsters. As was pointed out 25% is needed for a cover save. So you will have a 3+ cover on your Terv / Carn. This requires the Tau to dedicate MLs to remove cover which means they have less to boost there BS with.
Go first when you can and Run everything you can the first turn. Close as much distance as possible to put the pressure on. If you go first, pull the Venom in behind for a rolling cover save. The Tau will have to shoot it, which is less shots at other stuff. Swoop the HT and use the Devs to go for the suit units. Try to Onslaught the Carni for more of the same.
A Mawloc will greatly put pressure on as well.
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Post by: Verviedi
Fragile wrote:I think part of your problem is having things in reserve as was already mentioned.
First thing you should do is ignore those Hammerhead. Go for everything else he has first.
The Riptide you have two options for. Either Ignore it or tarpit it with gaunts. If you can multi-assault it and another unit, always do that and hope for a sweep. Otherwise just pin it in place with your expendable units.
Dont Outflank the Tervigon. March up up the board and spawn gaunts as needed.
Drop the HVC from the Carnifex and go for 2 Devourers. Use that same loadout on the HT as well.
Think about picking up Biovores. They give you much needed range and they also melt fire warriors. They allow you to take out Markerlight units at long range.
Hide the Venomthrope out of LOS and out of Range as much as possible to start. Keep your gaunts in front of your bigger monsters. As was pointed out 25% is needed for a cover save. So you will have a 3+ cover on your Terv / Carn. This requires the Tau to dedicate MLs to remove cover which means they have less to boost there BS with.
Go first when you can and Run everything you can the first turn. Close as much distance as possible to put the pressure on. If you go first, pull the Venom in behind for a rolling cover save. The Tau will have to shoot it, which is less shots at other stuff. Swoop the HT and use the Devs to go for the suit units. Try to Onslaught the Carni for more of the same.
A Mawloc will greatly put pressure on as well.
Just converted Ugo (Carnifex) to have duel twin linked devourers with BrainLeech worms.
LEVEL UP!
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: Unyielding Hunger
Nothing is an auto-lose. There is always a chance. That being said, You did accept a game of cards against a stacked deck. So, lets start breaking down what went wrong, most of which has already been covered.
The Board: You let your opponent dictate every decision. Upon agreement to play a game, that board should have been reset and regenerated to ensure fair placement of terrain and deployment zones. Don't ever let this happen again.
The Hammerhead: Illegal placement as per the fact it is hanging over. He either chooses for it's destruction or auto-reserves it. Also, for future use, remember the fact that backing a model into a corner makes it much easier to kill. Just hitting that Hammerhead from an angle that isn't directly head on ensures side armor values and a much easier time to kill.
The Units:
Flyrant: Good. Send that sucker down range and start hunting their more important vehicles.
Tervigon: Bad. In small games, the Tervigon has a niche as a durable HQ and swarming the opponent in bodies. That does not happen in large games. Swap this out for another Flyrant for more target saturation.
Venomthrope: Good, but only to a point. These things can keep your swarm alive, but you have to keep them out of sight as much as possible. Tau remove cover saves fairly well on their own, and will rip them apart given half a chance.
Carnifex: Not bad, but really confused. You gave it an expensive upgrade for durability, but then gave it a pointless gun for what it has to do. You can't outshoot Tau. Tau can easily outshoot you. If you want this thing to be rolling, either keep it bare with a few biomorphs and run it up with your horde to assault, or toss it some brain leech worms and let it run rampant as an actual gun platform without the regeneration and pointless cannon. At range, the Hammerheads will just shrug at the giant silly monster who thinks hes contributing before putting a round through its skull and putting it down for good.
Termagants: Not too bad. Your problem is in the fact your running a 1-2 ratio. Realistically, you need to flip that, or abandon the policy. Tau can strip models at that range fairly well, and losing twice the points per model quickly adds up when they hit overkill. Run them stock and you can field far more than you currently can, which is a big bonus when you run them in small groups and suddenly they can't overkill more than they should. In the long run, they will give you far more on the return.
Hormagaunts: Good. Keeping them stock gives you plenty of bodies to saturate the field.
Zoanthrope: Good. Keep it singular and don't bother shooting. It really is a waste of time. Pick your other powers and start using it for it's real purpose as a battery. Toss out buffs to the horde as you go, and you'll find that it will give you plenty of support when you need it most.
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Post by: wtnind
I'd say biovores could be useful, large AP 4 blasts will mop up fire wariors quiet well.
2 devourer tyrants are better than 1. If you cant get them 100% out of line of sight (because your opponent is screwing you on terrain) then bring a bastion (put a venomthrope in it - or the biovores!) That will allow you to get 2 tyrants completely obscured turn 1.
I'm guessing a harradin isn't within budget but it would clean house pretty quick. Take 60 termagants in units of 10 to score objectives.
The skyblight formation could be a good option for you.
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: SBG
The Biovore, you mean? Get Pyrovore models and substitute them. Really great model. 
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Post by: Verviedi
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Post by: doomminion
OK, you got the whole terrain and deployment rules down.
The units you are planning on while not bad, could definately be better.
I understand if you're playing with what you have available.
But I strongly suggest you take the following:
- 2x Flyrants with Twin linked Brain leach Devs + Electro shock grubs: These are auto-take, take this build every game for all time. Any vehicles AV 11/12 or less use the devourers. AV12/13+ use the electroshock grubs. Also since its a flamer template you can hit multiple vehicles if they placed their tanks close together.
- 1x Hive Crone: Fast, has a flamer that ignores cover and has haywire missiles. The crone will anhiliate mass amounts of fire warriors and other T3 enemies with the drool cannon. Haywire missiles for Vehicles or other flyers.
- 2x Malanthropes: This is a Forge World model. I don't know if your club allows Forge World or not, every local group is different. If they do allow it, get them, and then weap with joy.
A Malanthrope is a Venomthrope on steroids. He brings to the party [Shrouded], [Synpase], [Fleet] so he is fast, [Preffered Enemy] you will mow down Tau and all of this for a very, low, low price. Check out his rules in Imperial Armour 4: The Anphelion project (Second Edition).
- 2x Dakka-Fexes + Adrenal Glands: A Carnifex + 2x Twin-Linked Devourers, there is no such thing as too much dakka dakka. Adrenal glands are there to keep them moving up the board as quickly as possible. The high volume of shots will mow down Riptides and Fire warriors and everything between. For everything else, there is close combat S9 attacks. The Carnifex is hands down the best can opener Nids have. Point that battering ram at the Hammerhead and its brown pants time for every Tau in a 10 mile radius.
- 2 x Ripper broods with Deep Strike: They fulfill your troops requirement. They are small and easy to hide behind terrain. They do not require a baby sitter with synapse. Yes, they will start eating themselves taking an average of one wound per turn that they are not in synapse. But they are in no danger, as they have enough wounds to comfatably last through the game while holding an objective. The strategy here is to deep strike a ripper brood on an objective, put it in cover near the objective and forget about it. They will hold it and be very difficult to remove in cover due to how small the models are. This only works if you use the rest of your army to put pressure on your opponent to make Rippers on objectives the least of their worries.
Put those 4 units in your army, as the core, each and every game. Then fill out your army with other killy units to distract from the rippers.
I'd suggest the following list: It's a 2K list, shave off some models for lower points games.
HQ
1x Flyrant + 2x Twin-Linked Devourers + Electroshock Grubs
1x Flyrant + 2x Twin-Linked Devourers + Electroshock Grubs
TROOPS
3x Rippers + Deep Strike
3x Rippers + Deep Strike
ELITES
1x Malanthrope
1x Malan thrope
FAST ATTACK
1x Hive Crone
7x Shrikes + Adrenal Glands + Toxin Sacs + Flesh Hooks + Rending Claws
20x Gargoyles
HEAVY SUPPORT
3x Carnifex + 2x Twin-Linked Devourers + Adrenal Glands
1x Exocrine
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Post by: koooaei
All great but i'd plain ignore the hammerhead. It's not that killy if you play around it. But it's quite durable with 13-12. If you get the rear armor shots, why not. But if you have just the side - i'd rather shoot something else.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: carldooley
to satisfy my own curiosity, 2 questions.
1. What Tyranid models do you have, and how many of each? What is your Tyranid Inventory?
2. How much are you willing to spend on models, how often?
You seem to have problems when people suggest getting x model(s), usually over cost as far as I see. This is an expensive hobby, but the costs can be spaced out a bit over time. If you have a hard time justifying financial outlay, why play this game?
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Post by: Asmodas
Verviedi wrote:wtnind wrote:I'd say biovores could be useful, large AP 4 blasts will mop up fire wariors quiet well.
2 devourer tyrants are better than 1. If you cant get them 100% out of line of sight (because your opponent is screwing you on terrain) then bring a bastion (put a venomthrope in it - or the biovores!) That will allow you to get 2 tyrants completely obscured turn 1.
I'm guessing a harradin isn't within budget but it would clean house pretty quick. Take 60 termagants in units of 10 to score objectives.
The skyblight formation could be a good option for you.
I will certainly spend $50 on a single ugly model.
You can get old biovores on ebay for like $15-20.
We all "get it" about how expensive this stuff is, but that doesn't really invalidate the advice people are giving you. You can either play with what you have, and understand that you are at a disadvantage, or put together a plan to slowly expand your army over the space of a year or so. One model a month will not kill your bank account (I hope).
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Post by: Solar Shock
carldooley wrote:
to satisfy my own curiosity, 2 questions.
1. What Tyranid models do you have, and how many of each? What is your Tyranid Inventory?
2. How much are you willing to spend on models, how often?
You seem to have problems when people suggest getting x model(s), usually over cost as far as I see. This is an expensive hobby, but the costs can be spaced out a bit over time. If you have a hard time justifying financial outlay, why play this game?
was thinking the same.
Everytime we suggest something you link us the price of it we dont own your wallet nor manage your bank
Theres not much more we can do  But the above questions would be good to have answered if you would like to see thread progression.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: carldooley
Then I would suggest trading here, or on another trading thread. Sometimes you can get stellar deals as people clean out their collections. You might be surprised what people will trade for. Personally, the only thing I might trade you is a Lictor. I have a trade thread here on dakka, I'd recommend that you check it out and others like it. If you want to build a rep trading, I'd suggest trying bartertown instead (the rep system is automated and easily updated). In my experience, people seem to post the same trade threads across multiple sites, so going to another site is no great loss. I cannot recommend warseer, on account that most trades on that site are focused in Europe, but dakka and bartertown are focused more on the US of A.
mods, if suggesting another trading site is against forum rules, I apologize and by all means feel free to edit this post.
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Post by: zerosignal
Ebay, and conversions.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: Solar Shock
why not? its a site used by millions and in general has a good record, yeh sometimes a deal may go awry but to simply state you dont 'trust' it is a little silly. its not a single person, do you distrust the company? the people you buy stuff from? the fact their logo is multicoloured....
you get $20
that therefore limits your ability to buy what you want.
you can either save up, buy what people suggest
or go on ebay, buy some maybe pre-painted, maybe pre-assembled, or you may even get some in box simply cheaper. you can then re-paint, convert or set them on fire at your altar, whatever floats your boat.
choice is yours
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Post by: Asmodas
Okay, I understand. It can be difficult when you are a kid starting out. I remember getting $20 allowance per week and trying to build an army (back in '93ish when Nids first came out, lol).
Thus, we should be looking at cost efficiency. Your army needs more MCs (you've got plenty of gribblies already - I'm guessing you got the swarm box), so you should look at the MCs that will give you the most bang for your buck. That will be the second Flyrant, a second Dakkafex, or a Mawloc. Each retails around $55, so it should take you three weeks to save up for one of them. Personally, I would give the Mawloc a try, as it is a lot of fun and you already own one of each of the other models (I typically enjoy adding a new model to my army before getting a second of one I already have, but that is because I enjoy painting and modeling so much, and I get bored painting the same model over and over. YMMV.). But the Flyrant is realistically the best choice as it will give you a large increase in your overall firepower, and of course doubles as mobile synapse, plus can tank hunt in a pinch with e-grubs.
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Post by: carldooley
and regardless of what you get. If you get a large model, it won't hurt to magnetize it and its options.
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Post by: Verviedi
Asmodas wrote:Okay, I understand. It can be difficult when you are a kid starting out. I remember getting $20 allowance per week and trying to build an army (back in '93ish when Nids first came out, lol).
Thus, we should be looking at cost efficiency. Your army needs more MCs (you've got plenty of gribblies already - I'm guessing you got the swarm box), so you should look at the MCs that will give you the most bang for your buck. That will be the second Flyrant, a second Dakkafex, or a Mawloc. Each retails around $55, so it should take you three weeks to save up for one of them. Personally, I would give the Mawloc a try, as it is a lot of fun and you already own one of each of the other models (I typically enjoy adding a new model to my army before getting a second of one I already have, but that is because I enjoy painting and modeling so much, and I get bored painting the same model over and over. YMMV.). But the Flyrant is realistically the best choice as it will give you a large increase in your overall firepower, and of course doubles as mobile synapse, plus can tank hunt in a pinch with e-grubs.
My friend has a Mawloc he'll give me for $30.
Believe me, I'm not a GW noob. I have 5000 points of Eldar, 2000 points of IG, and 2000 points of High Elves along with my growing Nid army,
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Post by: rollawaythestone
I've had a lot of success with Mawlocs against Tau. They can hammer a Tau gunline anywhere on the board and ease pressure on other attacking Nids. They have to take down the Mawloc once it pops up, so it draws a lot of fire.
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Post by: Asmodas
Cool, Mawloc for $30 is a good deal. Good luck!
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Post by: Wilson
I love Mawlocs, even when they deep strike mishap off the board I love them .
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Post by: koooaei
You can sculpt stuff yourself. That's somewhat hard with nids though. But e-bay is fine. I've got orkses there. Another option is to look for your logal stores and ask for people willing to sell. Use facebook or whatever. I've got some number of great stuff like this. Some people are just willing to sell for cheap. Gone into that too. I've got a lot of ork stuff for like 2-4 times cheaper than original.
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Post by: whoadirty
Perhaps you guys could re-evaluate your eBay mistrust? As a buyer, it is virtually risk free as eBay is now (ridiculously) slanted towards protecting the buyer.
Good luck with your next match.
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Post by: Verviedi
Found a Harpy on eBay for $30. To buy or not to buy?
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=111481346002
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Post by: Zsolt
Did anybody mentioned add a lot more, big, LOS blocking terrain?
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: Windir83
If that's a typical table for you you need 200% more terrain and los blockers than what you currently have. That's not a game, that's a barrel and you're the fish.
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Post by: Fragile
The key to Ebay is to buy from reputable sellers. Once someone is over a 100 feedback of all positive, you can be fairly sure that you will get what you pay for.
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Post by: Verviedi
I think I will buy another flyrant next week.
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Post by: barnowl
And seriously look in to magnets. There should be 2 or 3 threads on magnetizing the new kit. Done right you get three model options out of one build and when GW dorks the codex again, you can just swap load outs.
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Post by: lliu
carldooley wrote:why play lengthwise against tau? why play a normal game? play Maelstrom, considering that your opponent has 2 OS units, and you have 2-3?
How are you using your Flyrant? If I was playing, I'd push your flyrant to the Hammerheads immediately.
Don't reserve your units. break them up into min size units, and push them forward.
What koooaei said is kind of useless, as I don't see many markerlight applicable units. OTOH, they will remove the firewarriors with few problems.
DON'T RESERVE YOUR UNITS! you seem to be using them individually - don't do this, as together they work better. Keep the Tervigon by the 'Gaunts to spawn more as they get killed off. Keep the venomthrope behind the Tervigon so that its cover save is buffed by the meatball. You should always be able to take a cover save with this blob, I don't see enough markerlights to grant ignore cover.
I'm currently unfamiliar with Hive Commander. Does it allow a single unit to outflank? if so, then outflank either the Zoanthroape or the Flyrant.
True. Do reserves do anything other than hold back your units?
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Post by: barnowl
lliu wrote: carldooley wrote:why play lengthwise against tau? why play a normal game? play Maelstrom, considering that your opponent has 2 OS units, and you have 2-3?
How are you using your Flyrant? If I was playing, I'd push your flyrant to the Hammerheads immediately.
Don't reserve your units. break them up into min size units, and push them forward.
What koooaei said is kind of useless, as I don't see many markerlight applicable units. OTOH, they will remove the firewarriors with few problems.
DON'T RESERVE YOUR UNITS! you seem to be using them individually - don't do this, as together they work better. Keep the Tervigon by the 'Gaunts to spawn more as they get killed off. Keep the venomthrope behind the Tervigon so that its cover save is buffed by the meatball. You should always be able to take a cover save with this blob, I don't see enough markerlights to grant ignore cover.
I'm currently unfamiliar with Hive Commander. Does it allow a single unit to outflank? if so, then outflank either the Zoanthroape or the Flyrant.
True. Do reserves do anything other than hold back your units?
Not much anymore. I can see reserving Skyblight gargs to DS on to objectives in maelstrom games, and maybe Trygons with Subterranean swarm or Endless tide being useful.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: jreilly89
Verviedi wrote:Quick Question-
What is the cheesiest, most overpowered, and hated non- FW Tyranid list?
Flyrant spam with Nidzilla and Venomthropes would be my guess
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Post by: Saythings
Verviedi wrote:Quick Question-
What is the cheesiest, most overpowered, and hated non- FW Tyranid list?
I like where your head is at. Unfortunately, there might not be a correct answer. A lot of people are trying to make them as competitive as possible and the only thing they are coming up with different versions of Triple Flyrants with Devourers. There are simply stronger codexes with better rules. :(
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Post by: pinecone77
Saythings wrote:Verviedi wrote:Quick Question-
What is the cheesiest, most overpowered, and hated non- FW Tyranid list?
I like where your head is at. Unfortunately, there might not be a correct answer. A lot of people are trying to make them as competitive as possible and the only thing they are coming up with different versions of Triple Flyrants with Devourers. There are simply stronger codexes with better rules. :(
Word. Though x2 CAD lets you take 4 Winged Dakka'rants. 
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Post by: luke1705
I remember the days when I played assaulty Nids vs gun line Tau on a long table with no terrain....still had a blast because it was against one of my best friends. And when I got to assault I mopped up (RIP 4th edition). Anyhow, the best advice I can give you is two-fold:
1) mobility/mobile firepower is key. Against Tau, you need to be able to get the drop on them (Mawloc) or close the gap very quickly (Flyrants, FMC, etc). Having flyers is good even against Tau because although they can do Skyfire well, they can't do Skyfire and firing at ground targets as well anymore. This means that they have less Skyfire typically, and their Skyfire is expensive (points-wise). So something like Skyblight can certainly do well against Tau.
2) although FMC are expensive, you can play at lower points games until you build up your core. Plus a Flyrant weighs in at 240 points. That's less than 25 cents per point. Not a bad deal. The best way, however, to avoid costs is to buy used or otherwise trade/barter. I can tell you that the rule of thumb of 100 feedback on eBay is a good one, and that ebay will ALWAYS side with you. You will never be scammed and have eBay not cover your back. I doubt you'd want to do it, but if you are willing to trade models online (maybe you have some Guard you don't need/use any more), then you can get Tyranid stuff for almost nothing. Many people use this site - I use barter town - whatever you decide to use, it's actually very safe to trade models with online users. I've had more than 20 transactions with online users and the same rules apply - find people with a lot of feedback and your risk is minimized. If someone was going to steal models from another online user, it's extremely likely that they would have done it in their first 50 transactions, or far sooner.
If I was you, I would get, in order:
Flyrant
Mawloc
Hive Crone
3 Biovores (older Biovores shouldn't run you more than $20 a pop)
Gargoyles
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Post by: barnowl
To OP, I just saw the list you post for this guy in the nid thread:
Right. How do I beat Tau who gunline and camp Submunition Railheads in the corners of the board? The guy is running...
HQ-
Battlesuit Commander w/ triple Flamers + Iridium
2 Crisis Bodyguards w/ triple Flamers
6 Gun Drones
Troops-
12x Fire Warriors w/ 2 Marker drones
12x Fire Warriors w/ 2 Marker drones and Cadre Fireblade
Elites-
3 Stealth Suits w/ Marker Drone (Burstcannons)
1 Riptide w/ Ion Accelerator, TL Rawketpawds, and 2 Shielded Missile Drones
Fast Attack-
1x Piranha w/ Marker Drones
1x Piranha w/ Marker Drones
1x Piranha w/ Marker Drones
Heavy Support-
Railgun Hammerhead w/ Submunition Rounds
Railgun Hammerhead w/ Submunition Rounds
{\quote]
Step one get this guy to play a legal list. The piranha's are illegal. they get gun drones not markerlight drones. I also suspect seeing the list, that he is running the marker drones as Networked, which they are not.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: locarno24
A unit can't use it's own markerlights - only those left by another unit which previously fired at the same target.
The exception is 'networked' markerlights.
and yes, the general 'received wisdom' for Tyranids is:
Combined Arms Detachment
2 x Winged Hive Tyrant - Double-Dual Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Deep-striking Ripper Swarms
Mawlocks
Living Artillery Node Formation Detachment
Warriors
Exocrine
Biovores
Take the above two in whatever proportions and number matches your points limits and personal taste.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: carldooley
Eight. The shas'ui-s in the firewarrior squads can take them. 3 per squad, and then the Stealth Shas'vre can take another. take a close look at his points though - it gets expensive fast.
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Post by: Haskell
Don't know if this could help you but deepstrike Shrikes(the winged warrior guys) and Gargoyle mob. Venomthropes for their bubbles and the spawn mommy to ouflank or walk, walk her casting physic powers and spawn sheilds.
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Post by: luke1705
 Haskell wrote:Don't know if this could help you but deepstrike Shrikes(the winged warrior guys) and Gargoyle mob. Venomthropes for their bubbles and the spawn mommy to ouflank or walk, walk her casting physic powers and spawn sheilds.
It does and it doesn't. When it works, great turn 2 beta strike. When it doesn't, they don't show up until turn 4 and you cry
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Post by: krodarklorr
Umm, I never go anywhere, ESPECIALLY against Tau without Biovores and putting the Miasma Cannon on the Tervigon. Eliminate the Markerlights, and should have a decent shot.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:locarno24 wrote:A unit can't use it's own markerlights - only those left by another unit which previously fired at the same target.
The exception is 'networked' markerlights.
Yeah. He always pops markerlights with the firewarriors and then rapidfire me using them at BS5.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, he only has 6 legal markerlights?
Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.
example:
Firewarrir squad A fires at Termgaunt brood. SInce it has marker drones, they fire at the same times as the rifles, all at BS3. Assuming both markerlights hits, FireWarrior squad B can now use those 2 markerlights to either remove cover or fire at BS5 at the marked gaunt squad.
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Post by: carldooley
barnowl wrote:Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.
you need to read the rest of his thread. there are 8. 2 marker drones per firewarrior squad, plus the markerlight on the shas'ui. That is six, yes. But there are the two markerlights in the Stealth Suit unit as well. One marker drone and one markerlight on the team leader. Making eight.
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Post by: barnowl
carldooley wrote:barnowl wrote:Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.
you need to read the rest of his thread. there are 8. 2 marker drones per firewarrior squad, plus the markerlight on the shas'ui. That is six, yes. But there are the two markerlights in the Stealth Suit unit as well. One marker drone and one markerlight on the team leader. Making eight.
Going by the list as posted, there are only 2 markerlights in each FW squad, one on the Fireblade and one in the Stealthgroup. There is no Shas'ui in the list. And based on the thread that looks like the only 6 I would trust to actually be there.
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Post by: carldooley
Hold on, what fireblade? besides, I was answering the question of how may markerlights could legally be in the list that verviedi posted here:
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Post by: Verviedi
Can you quote the rule that says Markerlights cannot be used by the unit firing them?
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Post by: carldooley
P. 68 Tau Empire Codex blue box on the bottom. Last paragraph on the bottom left:
'Note that as markerlight counters are removed from the target before the shooting attack is made, it is impossible for a unit to benefit from its own markerlights.'
The Rules for the networked markerlights are on the next page (P.69), left hand side, a little more than half way down the page.
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Post by: Verviedi
-Redacted-
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Post by: Verviedi
Does anybody have any more help?
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Post by: carldooley
probably not if this is your response:
Verviedi wrote:I'm thinking of just playing Unbound and bringing 7 LRMBTs, 3 Wave Serpents, 1 Fire Prism, and BL guardians
I was thinking about how you [chose to disregard] help you already got in the thread. Then I thought, by all means smash the guy, hopefully settle him down, and then get back to more normal games.
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Post by: SBG
All the advice you need is already in the thread.
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Post by: Verviedi
So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc
The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.
I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.
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Post by: SBG
Check out the how-to in my P&M blog, in my signature. I've got step by step instructions on how to buid a TL Devourer for Tyrants and Carnifexes. Easy and uses bits you're very likely to have.
Good call on what to get, they're all useful.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote:So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc
The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.
I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.
Hammerheads are not OP, in fact sub-par in comparison to other HS options.
What sort of list are you planning to run?
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Post by: Verviedi
 Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc
The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.
I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.
Hammerheads are not OP, in fact sub-par in comparison to other HS options.
What sort of list are you planning to run?
HQ
Double Flyrants with Double Double Devourers and eGrubs (480)
Troops
30 Termagants (15 Devourers, 15 Borers) (200)
1 Tervigon (Crushing Claws) (210)
4 Ripper Swarms (Spinefists) (58)
11 Hormagaunts (Toxin Sacs + Adr Glands) 110
11 Hormagaunts (Toxin Sacs + Adr Glands) 110
Elites:
1 Zoanthrope (50)
1 Venomthrope (45)
Fast Attack:
10 Gargoyles (60)
Heavy Support:
Carnifex (Double Double Devourers, Regen) (180)
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Post by: Frozocrone
Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.
He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.
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Post by: SBG
I'd refuse the game with that player. Do that a few times and he'll likely see it your way, lol. A fair game is better than no game.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.
He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.
Refuse to play Eternal War then. Claim it's boring and tedious.
That guy is a  .
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.
He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.
Refuse to play Eternal War then. Claim it's boring and tedious.
That guy is a .
Exalted
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc
The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.
I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.
Make him pull out his codex and go down the list and rules with you. This guy is looking like a classic W.A.A.C player and they are never fun.
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Post by: Verviedi
barnowl wrote:Verviedi wrote:So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc
The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.
I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.
Make him pull out his codex and go down the list and rules with you. This guy is looking like a classic W.A.A.C player and they are never fun.
Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)
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Post by: carldooley
Verviedi wrote:Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)
When you started this thread, I thought that the player was a guy that you met at a pickup game. But this sounds like he is a regular opponent for you. I would suggest that the two of you, and any others that you are playing with in that venue, take a game night and go over the rules for the game. Know thy enemy may sound trite, but knowing the ins and outs of the other armies is not a weakness. play games where you command your opponent's army. go over the rules not only for your own armies, but those for the rulebook as well.
You mentioned being unable to target more than one of a group of killa kans. Where does it say that in the rulebook? or is it in the Ork Codex? (I would really like to know - in addition to TE\ FE I also have a SM Dread-spam army as well - I would like to use that to my benefit!) I do not think that particular rule exists anywhere, and I think that he may be snowing you. This is why I suggest leaving your armies at home for a night and go over the rules.
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Post by: Verviedi
carldooley wrote:Verviedi wrote:Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)
When you started this thread, I thought that the player was a guy that you met at a pickup game. But this sounds like he is a regular opponent for you. I would suggest that the two of you, and any others that you are playing with in that venue, take a game night and go over the rules for the game. Know thy enemy may sound trite, but knowing the ins and outs of the other armies is not a weakness. play games where you command your opponent's army. go over the rules not only for your own armies, but those for the rulebook as well.
You mentioned being unable to target more than one of a group of killa kans. Where does it say that in the rulebook? or is it in the Ork Codex? (I would really like to know - in addition to TE\ FE I also have a SM Dread-spam army as well - I would like to use that to my benefit!) I do not think that particular rule exists anywhere, and I think that he may be snowing you. This is why I suggest leaving your armies at home for a night and go over the rules.
Here is how that OP, cheesy, terrible exploit works.
Run them as seperate units on the force org list (Instead of one squad of 3 Kans, 3 squads of 1)
Put them within 2" of each other so they can all shoot the same thing.
It's pretty much a requirement to play unbound if you do this. I HATE unbound, but since he is my ONLY opponent, I have to let him.
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Post by: luke1705
I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"
It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )
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Post by: Verviedi
Here's basically what the problem is:
•Opponent will not read the damn codex.
•I only get $20 a week.
•LOLGUNLINE.
•The only decent units have MAXIMUM GOUGING activated.
•Opponent refuses to play Maelstrom.
•I am playing Tyranids.
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Post by: SBG
Proxy or play someone else. Life is too short to waste dealing with people like that.
I used to play against a guy who would only play killpoints. No objectives, nothing - and I run Tyranids. So I stopped playing him. A month goes by, hey surprise - willing to see it my way.
Stand up for yourself.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:Here's basically what the problem is:
•Opponent will not read the damn codex.
•I only get $20 a week.
•LOLGUNLINE.
•The only decent units have MAXIMUM GOUGING activated.
•Opponent refuses to play Maelstrom.
•I am playing Tyranids.
Honestly the only real problem is point one. I say that because I still hold my own against most lists in our state wide tourney with what was originally a 3rd ed gribbly list. In 4 years I have only added 1 Tyrant guard (to finish a set of the previous model), 1 ravenor (to bring it to minimum, all metals), and about a score gaunts (mix of Termi,Spina, and Horma). DE Venom and Helion lists have been the only lists that I have zero wins against. Both just have to much poison and fire volume to handle.
Only playing Eternal War missions means you can make a massive outflank/Deepstrike list to bring the pain. Still going to have a problem with Purge but 'nids always have.
Here is the list I would start with based on your posted list for 1200pts:
HQ:
Flyrant w/2xBL Devourers, Egrubs, Hive Commander 260 (just too good not to have)
Trevigon w/Egrub, Maisma Cannon 230 (You want to keep Dominion and ideally on-slaught on her)
Elite:
Zoanthrope 50 (behind the bunker, rocking Dominion and maybe a useful power)
Venomthrope 45 (in the bunker)
Troops:
15 Hormiguants 75
15 Hormigaunts 75
17 Devilguants 136 (outflank (or Infiltrate) them they make a nasty entry
3 rippers w/ DS, TS 57 (Riptide will fear this)
Fast
10 gargoyle 60 (Riptide won't like this either)
Hvy
1 Carnifex w/2xBL devourers 150
Fortification:
Bunker 55
A bunker is essentially a half height bastion with no guns. It is just here to keep the Venomthrope alive another turn and provide some guaranteed coverage.
4 things will depend on the Dice gods:
1) For Warlord traits you want to aim for Master of Ambush.
2) Night fighting, you want this. Good for you, bad for Tau.
3) You want to go first, especially if you get MoA.
4) The right mix of powers. You got 4 power roles between 3 psychers, and you want to get in order of priorities : Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxsym, Psychic Scream, Horror
If you get MoA you will want to push the fex up and the Trevigon. The fex goes after either the Riptide or Piranhas. Momma pops a brood, and templates FW then suits. After that you have a choice about the flyrant, Devilgaunts or a brood of hormigaunts to screen with. The Flyrant will almost guarantee side shots on the HH and egrub trying to destroy it or force a jink. If you get really luck a Vector strike also. Devilguants can go after Prianhas, Stealth suits, Crisis suits or Firewarriors. Or the just run the hormigaunts as a screen for cover saves
Target goals
Flamer suits, Your list is very susceptible to templates. With all those gun drones you should be forcing LD tests by killing all the drones off. This is also a good target for the Horror if you end up with it. Don't want to charge this many flamers, but if you do, hit it with a brood from the Trevigon to absorb the overwatch before having the real threat charge.
Riptide is a tarpit target either the Gargoyles or the a hormie brood. You don't care about killing it just keeping it from shooting. If the venom lives long enough, it might even be good to get it stuck in with fight on the Riptide. 2+ poison is nice. Kill the drones and you might even make it run off the board.
The HHs, you don't have to kill them just keep them jinking. S10 will hurt, but not as bad as the pieplates. Vector Strikes and devourers should make that happen. If you can assault one with the fex go for it.
The FWs will need to die, but will bring the pain with overwatch, so if you charge do it first with a tervigon spawned brood if possible. Go after the fireblade squad first as it has the most fire output.
Piranhas and the stealth suits are going to be pains. Depending on the mission they may be worth more to kill than the Stealth suits or FW. If they back Fusion Blasters, you want them jinking so as to protector you MC's/
Automatically Appended Next Post: I added up the Tau list you posted and attempted to keep it legal. You are playing at around a 100 point handicap, maybe a little more. Your not losing because you are playing 'nids, your losing cus the dude is cheating you.
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Post by: Verviedi
luke1705 wrote:I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"
It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )
First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote:luke1705 wrote:I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times" It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )
First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.
Killa Kans? They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks. I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:luke1705 wrote:I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"
It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )
First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.
Killa Kans?
They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies
Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks.
I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?
I don't even know. And yes, I'm talking about Killa Kans. He says their CC attacks are S10 AP1 because they have Dreadnought Close Combat weapons.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:luke1705 wrote:I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"
It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )
First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.
Killa Kans?
They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies
Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks.
I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?
I don't even know. And yes, I'm talking about Killa Kans. He says their CC attacks are S10 AP1 because they have Dreadnought Close Combat weapons.
Dreadnought Close Combat weapons? In Orks?
I'm going to get my 7th ed Ork Codex and edit this post to upload some pictures to prove your 'friend' is cheating. I think we've found the root of the problems you've been having.
2
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Post by: Verviedi
Just a quick note, he will not believe anything you guys say unless you give him a page number.
The manager of the GW store told us to not believe anything the internet says about unit viability or rules, and he has taken it to heart.
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Post by: Quickjager
Killa Kans at one point DID have Dreadnought CCW, but it lost them somewhere... I forget WHERE.
As for the page number I can't help you reference that, no 7th ed Ork for me.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Ok, we'll play it his way.
Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:
Verviedi wrote:Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.
He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Ok, we'll play it his way.
Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:
Verviedi wrote:Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.
He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.
He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.
86452
Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Ok, we'll play it his way.
Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:
Verviedi wrote:Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.
He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.
He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.
It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.
Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Ok, we'll play it his way.
Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:
Verviedi wrote:Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.
He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.
He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.
It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.
Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.
Not really. There are some other people who go to the GW store to play games, but since I can only go on weekends, there's either a guy there who wants to play me or a ghost town where the manager and I paint things in silence. My other opponents are a really nice DE player and another nid player who brings a tournament list (Still a cool guy), but they are not always there.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Ok, we'll play it his way.
Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).
Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:
Verviedi wrote:Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)
The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.
He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.
He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.
It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.
Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.
Not really. There are some other people who go to the GW store to play games, but since I can only go on weekends, there's either a guy there who wants to play me or a ghost town where the manager and I paint things in silence. My other opponents are a really nice DE player and another nid player who brings a tournament list (Still a cool guy), but they are not always there.
So the GW is letting him play unpainted models? That is a bit different, at least around here the GW requires all armies used in store to be painted/ wysiwyg. Automatically Appended Next Post: IF you got to play him, make him pull out his dex and point out the costs and the rules.
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Post by: koooaei
Well, firstly, if he's not playing double CAD or unbound, the list with 3 separate kanz, dreads and something are illegal. Cause they all occupy heavy support. He could easilly have a squadron of 2, than a separate kan and a deff dread - that'd take up 3 HS slots.
Secondly, kanz are s7 ap2 ws2 ini2 2HP and have...2 base attacks iirc. They don't have dreadnought weapons now in the new dex. And i'd advise you to check their point cost in his list. Cause they cost 50 pt base now and have a special rule like leadership tests when squadronned kanz die to make them even worse. All in all, kanz are considered one of the worst units in the current dex out from a dreadmob formation. They used to be s10 a few months ago before the new dex, though, so maybe it was just before the update.
Thirdly, dreadnought weapons are ap2. Only naughts have s10 ap1 weapons. Not that ap1-2 matters vs nids but still.
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Post by: carldooley
if you are playing ork v nid games, make sure to use an Inquisitor named Kryptman as an objective.
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Post by: Verviedi
Well, this got off topic fast. Can we go back to how to beat the fish?
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Post by: koooaei
Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.
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Post by: Verviedi
 koooaei wrote:Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.
Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?
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Post by: GoliothOnline
It kinda sounds like this was a match built game where you both knew what each other were bringing enough for him to know you were running Gaunts and Flyrants. Tau are still the 2nd easiest army to play in 40k due to their absurdly cheap and highly effective units. If you give them the edge by letting them know what you're bringing they will easily use that tailoring to their advantage.
A small tip, play with more LoS blocking terrain. Use Biovores, they are amazing at ridding the board of Markerlights and Fire Warriors hiding in cover.
I dont usually see many Tyranid players in our area, but the 1 golden rule for any melee army is "Abuse LoS" and by that I of course mean "Play with ample Terrain and LoS Blocking Terrain" All of the terrain you have on that board right now, should be on ONE of those square sections. There simply isn't enough to actually play a competent and REAL game of 40k on that =/ If you guys had more buildings, actually played for objectives and weren't playing the Tau game of "Lets see how long it takes for me to erase you from the board as you walk towards me" you would have had a much more fun and actually challenging game.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote: koooaei wrote:Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.
Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?
Really he can't kill you faster than you get to him, if he was not cheating and forcing you to run at 100+ pt handicap.
Your list is fine, your opponet's on the other hand is a cheater special. Add that to playing long ways on planet boweling ball and you will be hard pressed, but it is still not unwinnable.
You are checking for nightfighting turn 1? That will nerf alot of the alpha stirke options and let you get a lot closer be fore the fire hits.
Everyttime your opponent contradicts this thread, make him show you the rules in the codex.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote: koooaei wrote:Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.
Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?
Frankly, you're going to have to get into rapid fire range, Tau will always beat Nids in a gunfight. You need to exploit their weakness by getting into Close Combat, where Tau fold, but you also need to be smart about it, BLOS whenever possible and ideally only allowing Rapid Fire on Overwatch.
They won't always have ignore cover, that usually comes from Markerlights, which should be the first thing to go. Target priority is going to be key to beating Tau.
As others have said, get your friend to show you the codex when he contradicts what the Dakka community has said
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Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote: koooaei wrote:Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.
Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?
Frankly, you're going to have to get into rapid fire range, Tau will always beat Nids in a gunfight. You need to exploit their weakness by getting into Close Combat, where Tau fold, but you also need to be smart about it, BLOS whenever possible and ideally only allowing Rapid Fire on Overwatch.
They won't always have ignore cover, that usually comes from Markerlights, which should be the first thing to go. Target priority is going to be key to beating Tau.
As others have said, get your friend to show you the codex when he contradicts what the Dakka community has said
I will target the enemy FWs first Automatically Appended Next Post: This weekend is the day where the game will happen. I am still trying to think of a way to hide massive quantities of nids so my opponent list tailors for IG.
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Post by: Fragile
There is no need for such silliness. Tau fold like paper to Nids. You just need to work target priority, aka get it out of your mind that you have to kill that hammerhead. You also need to work speed. Yes that means in range of all their guns.
You have been given suggestions many times on how to do those things.
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Post by: Verviedi
How do I kill the 3-Flamer-Each deep striking Iridium Commander and his 2 bodyguards with drones?
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Post by: Lord Commissar
Not to sound negative, but the particular Tau list in the OP is rather bad. Everytime I face a Tau list in a tournament it seems identical.
2 Missileside squads, sometimes with Drones, sometimes without, one is sometimes with a commander
2 Riptides
Some deepstriking melta suits
A Skyray
*Insert 2-3 favorite markerlight units here
Maybe the odd hammerhead for killing the CCB, Usually something to bubble wrap the above squads, maybe a missilesuit squad.
That type of list is a bit rough for tyranids, as your flyrants don't exist after turn 1. Flying or not.
If you can play the speed game and stay outside of 36 inches of the sides, you can just move on objectives last turn, albeit this is not a very fun game to play. I remember once first blood was the last turn of the game when I played against that Tau list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The iridium commander if he deeps strikes into your line is killed by any smash attack, use the MC of your choice.
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Post by: Verviedi
 Lord Commissar wrote:Not to sound negative, but the particular Tau list in the OP is rather bad. Everytime I face a Tau list in a tournament it seems identical.
2 Missileside squads, sometimes with Drones, sometimes without, one is sometimes with a commander
2 Riptides
Some deepstriking melta suits
A Skyray
*Insert 2-3 favorite markerlight units here
Maybe the odd hammerhead for killing the CCB, Usually something to bubble wrap the above squads, maybe a missilesuit squad.
That type of list is a bit rough for tyranids, as your flyrants don't exist after turn 1. Flying or not.
If you can play the speed game and stay outside of 36 inches of the sides, you can just move on objectives last turn, albeit this is not a very fun game to play. I remember once first blood was the last turn of the game when I played against that Tau list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The iridium commander if he deeps strikes into your line is killed by any smash attack, use the MC of your choice.
How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*
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Post by: Desubot
Does he always run flamers?
Chuck something giant at it that will have ah ard time wounding first then the chumps.
Spread out the chumps so that there is no way he can kill all of them within range and keep em in synaps to keep em fearless
then go to town in CC
You killing drones is fine because once you win combat and they run, you should easily overrun them.
(also fear test IIRC)
87095
Post by: Lord Commissar
You obviously will challenge the commander. I am pretty sure a dakkaflyrant (Or any nid unit) can kill a Tau squad in CC. If 6 s4 hits are killing your Flyrant thats a whole different problem.....
79833
Post by: Darkfire66
Verviedi wrote:
How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*
You don't get to overwatch twice. Run something expendable into them and then charge with your choppy thing.
Also, this guy sounds like a prize douche. Running cheese is acceptable; cheating isn't.
Hard up for opponents? Check out VASSAL, talk 40k on 4chan's /tg/ if this doesn't move fast enough for you, look at reddit and finally, look at Dakka's championship listss to see what kind of armies are out there and think about how you would beat them. The BAO was just a few months ago and the lists here are great to see what would beat you over the head (Spoiler: Bike Marines)
Anyway, good luck. Maybe look for another FLGS, or see if the manager would let you post a league notice at the store. Managers love escalation tournaments where you start at 500 points and add 250 a week, because that happens to be the points cost for most units or so, which is a great way to sell models and help new players get into it.
Good luck out there. I hope you start modeling dead tau on your bases.
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Post by: sfshilo
Dear lord....there is no terrain!
Add some damn terrain! Anything!
That table is so NOT legal it is insulting, Tau will always win with that kind of table yeesh.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Darkfire66 wrote:Verviedi wrote:
How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*
You don't get to overwatch twice. Run something expendable into them and then charge with your choppy thing.
Also, this guy sounds like a prize douche. Running cheese is acceptable; cheating isn't.
Hard up for opponents? Check out VASSAL, talk 40k on 4chan's /tg/ if this doesn't move fast enough for you, look at reddit and finally, look at Dakka's championship listss to see what kind of armies are out there and think about how you would beat them. The BAO was just a few months ago and the lists here are great to see what would beat you over the head (Spoiler: Bike Marines)
Anyway, good luck. Maybe look for another FLGS, or see if the manager would let you post a league notice at the store. Managers love escalation tournaments where you start at 500 points and add 250 a week, because that happens to be the points cost for most units or so, which is a great way to sell models and help new players get into it.
Good luck out there. I hope you start modeling dead tau on your bases.
Emmmm.... I'm playing at a GW Store... Automatically Appended Next Post:  sfshilo wrote:Dear lord....there is no terrain!
Add some damn terrain! Anything!
That table is so NOT legal it is insulting, Tau will always win with that kind of table yeesh.
My opponent is not to be allowed ANY buildings, due to his overwhelming levels of camping FW teams.
61964
Post by: Fragile
Verviedi wrote:How do I kill the 3-Flamer-Each deep striking Iridium Commander and his 2 bodyguards with drones?
If you opponent is dumb enough to DS his commander unit within flamer range of your troops, then you have a cake walk. Range is the only way that Tau can hope to survive. Nids beat that with speed and back field threats.
70127
Post by: luke1705
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in any of the pages previous to this, but you might consider employing more deep strikers. For example, a Mawloc would destroy whatever infantry he has on the table. Also, I can second, third and fourth the notion that you should get some Biovores. They remove models at range super fast. And if you're jealous of his plasma, grab yourself an exocrine bro. It's tough and can put out a blast or just a bunch of AP 2 shots. Since we're two-thirds of the way there already, it's worth considering running living artillery. It's a formation that includes an exocrine, 3 warriors and a brood of Biovores. Twin-links everybody's guns and gives them pinning (which is great against Tau). You won't be able to out-shoot him but it's a start. Also, I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, but a couple things about your list:
1) why does your fex have a venom cannon? The range is nice but instead you could be putting out 12 Twin-linked str 6 shots a turn. Sound better? That's because it is
2) having a Flyrant is good. Having two is better
3) is your Tervigon a troop choice? Because you can make it one for free since you have enough termagants. That makes it (and the babies it spawns) objective: secured, which is the bees' knees
Overall, I inow its been said, but here are three easy steps to winning the game:
1) Put the appropriate amount of terrain on the table, for the love of all that is holy
2) play maelstrom. If your opponent doesn't like maelstrom, offer a compromise. The Bay Area Open missions are great - eternal war primary, modified maelstrom secondary, and the three tertiary points (linebreaker, warlord and first blood). It allows you to do what you do well, allows him to do what he does well, and rewards tactical play - not just shooting stuff because guns. These missions are easily downloadable for free from Frontlinegaming, or you could just google search for them
3) Bring a second list. The great thing about Nids is that they can do so many different things. I have a threat overload list where everything hits you turn 2. I have an extremely shooty list that drowns you in firepower. I have a list with a bunch of gribblies. I have a list with more MC than you can shake a stick at. I also have the Skyblight formation. I have been playing Nids for a while, admittedly. Anyhow, my point is that you should bring multiple lists and not let him tailor to one or the other. Once his list is set, then you can flip a coin or something. Even let him know what you're doing - that way he knows he can't tailor to your specific list.
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Post by: Verviedi
Nids are a monobuild army. The only viable list I can make using the models I have is this-
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Termagants
Hormagaunts
Tervigon
Rippers
Gargoyles
Carnifex
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Post by: Verviedi
Every list I see is Double Flyrants, Malanthropes, Mawlocs, Biovores, and Hive Crones, with Rippers capping objectives.
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Post by: techsoldaten
Verviedi wrote:
Not really. There are some other people who go to the GW store to play games, but since I can only go on weekends, there's either a guy there who wants to play me or a ghost town where the manager and I paint things in silence. My other opponents are a really nice DE player and another nid player who brings a tournament list (Still a cool guy), but they are not always there.
If there's a GW store, there are other players around. Use Craigslist to find other people and get organized around games, talk to the guy running the store about organizing a tournament, get email addresses / phone numbers of people and use them to connect. I think Dakka has a find a game forum that can be useful.
It just seems to me the people around you are discouraging you from learning more about the game or becoming a better player. That's not how it should be.
47462
Post by: rigeld2
Verviedi wrote:
Every list I see is Double Flyrants, Malanthropes, Mawlocs, Biovores, and Hive Crones, with Rippers capping objectives.
So you're not reading the nid tactic thread at all? Because there's lots of other lists in there.
edit: Heck, Hulksmash has a list allied with Demons that does well.
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Post by: Verviedi
rigeld2 wrote:Verviedi wrote:
Every list I see is Double Flyrants, Malanthropes, Mawlocs, Biovores, and Hive Crones, with Rippers capping objectives.
So you're not reading the nid tactic thread at all? Because there's lots of other lists in there.
edit: Heck, Hulksmash has a list allied with Demons that does well.
I am. Every list I see is either that or more of a funlist (NINE CARNIFICES!)
Also, I am not a fan of allying Tyranids with anybody.
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote: Lord Commissar wrote:Not to sound negative, but the particular Tau list in the OP is rather bad. Everytime I face a Tau list in a tournament it seems identical.
2 Missileside squads, sometimes with Drones, sometimes without, one is sometimes with a commander
2 Riptides
Some deepstriking melta suits
A Skyray
*Insert 2-3 favorite markerlight units here
Maybe the odd hammerhead for killing the CCB, Usually something to bubble wrap the above squads, maybe a missilesuit squad.
That type of list is a bit rough for tyranids, as your flyrants don't exist after turn 1. Flying or not.
If you can play the speed game and stay outside of 36 inches of the sides, you can just move on objectives last turn, albeit this is not a very fun game to play. I remember once first blood was the last turn of the game when I played against that Tau list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The iridium commander if he deeps strikes into your line is killed by any smash attack, use the MC of your choice.
How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*
Personal favorite approach is slap the squad with the Horror power, now no flamers or Overwatch. or hit in two waves and don't bother with smash. Also flamers vs our MC's? That is needing 6's to wound and you still get the armor save. After that you get a free hammer of Wrath, and 4+ AP2 hits that will wound on an 2+. Since he is not Fearless let him kill off his drones and then suits, You have a good chance of sweeping him, or making the squad fall back till it is out of effective range for a turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Verviedi wrote:Nids are a monobuild army. The only viable list I can make using the models I have is this-
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Termagants
Hormagaunts
Tervigon
Rippers
Gargoyles
Carnifex
Not quite true, though that is using most of the good units in the codex. Back on page 4 I gave you a solid list based on your existing models and tactics to run it with built around a Venom in a box and foot sloggers..
83175
Post by: pinecone77
Verviedi wrote:Nids are a monobuild army. The only viable list I can make using the models I have is this-
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Termagants
Hormagaunts
Tervigon
Rippers
Gargoyles
Carnifex
That looks just fine... 
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Do you think my opponent will support me using dataslates DLed from the internet? I want to use Endless Swarm, but I won't waste a week's allowance on it.
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Post by: carldooley
how about allies? take a tank commander, a single troop choice and some more Leman Russes? Come the Apocalypse is not what it was in sixth.
for narrative, you can say that the tank crews are a corrupted genestealer cult.
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Post by: Verviedi
carldooley wrote:how about allies? take a tank commander, a single troop choice and some more Leman Russes? Come the Apocalypse is not what it was in sixth.
for narrative, you can say that the tank crews are a corrupted genestealer cult.
I haven't though of that! Thanks! Automatically Appended Next Post: Current Draft of List:
TauWrecking List-
Primary Detachment (Tyranids)
HQ-
Flyrant with TL Devs and eGrubs (240 points)
Flyrant with TL Devs and eGrubs (240 points)
Troops-
30 Termagants (15 Devourers) (180 points)
Tervigon (Crushing Claws) (210 points)
3 Ripper Swarms (Spinefists) (63 points)
Elites-
Venomthrope (45 points)
Zoanthrope (50 points)
Allied Detachment (Imperial Guard)
HQ-
Vanquisher Commander w/ Vanquisher (Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hull Mounted Lascannons) (390 points)
Troops-
Veteran Squad (Grenade Launcher, Bolt Pistol, Chimera, Grenadiers) (150 points)
Veteran Squad (Grenade Launcher, Grenadiers) (75 points)
Total- 1,643 Points
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Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:Do you think my opponent will support me using dataslates DLed from the internet? I want to use Endless Swarm, but I won't waste a week's allowance on it.
Better not, he has used wrong rules and prices off forums.
61964
Post by: Fragile
Verviedi wrote:
Every list I see is Double Flyrants, Malanthropes, Mawlocs, Biovores, and Hive Crones, with Rippers capping objectives.
Every Eldar list I see has Farseers, Wraithknights, Jetbikes, Wave Serpents, Fire Warriors.
Every Tau list I see has Riptides, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Kroot, Crisis Suits, Farsight,
Every Space Marine list has Bikes, Tac squads, Drop Pods, Centurions, Chapter masters..
You can play that game with every Dex.
12656
Post by: carldooley
Fragile wrote:
Every Tau list I see has Riptides, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Kroot, Crisis Suits, Farsight,
I can't do much here, except use an Aegis and a LOT of pathfinders?
Every Space Marine list has Bikes, Tac squads, Drop Pods, Centurions, Chapter masters..
Then I suppose that my MotF and 6 dreadnoughts are a list that break the mold?
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Post by: barnowl
carldooley wrote:Fragile wrote:
Every Tau list I see has Riptides, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Kroot, Crisis Suits, Farsight,
I can't do much here, except use an Aegis and a LOT of pathfinders?
Every Space Marine list has Bikes, Tac squads, Drop Pods, Centurions, Chapter masters..
Then I suppose that my MotF and 6 dreadnoughts are a list that break the mold?
Yeah, actually MotF and 6 dreads would.
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Post by: Cambonimachine
Verviedi- Honestly man, You know full well your opponent is a Donkey-cave. So knowing there is no pleasing him unless he has autowin on planet bowling ball, and even then he will cheat every chance he gets, Run whatever formation you want however you come by the rules.
If he pitches a fit about it, just sit down and paint some gants. Youre probably the only person in the area that will play him anymore, so eventually he will come around.
With that said, when he DOES come around, he is gonna piss and moan every time you do something that messes up his plans. If he cant show you the rules for it, he cant do it. And every time he throws a tantrum, just sit back and smile, because you are watching a grown man's sad little dreams of winning at something for once in his life die.
OH! and if he tries to argue a rule that you have in black and white and wont let up on it or anything like that, smile, start packing your dead, and if he still hasnt come around, pack up your minis, turn around and paint some gants.
NO game is worth that kinda hassle bro.
36295
Post by: Hückleberry
Your opponent contradicts himself. He blindly follows the GW managers orders not to believe anything he reads on the internet BUT uses the internet to look up points values and stats instead of reading his codex? Use dakka or craigslist to find other opponents/places to play. In my experience the FLGS is a more comfortable gaming place than a GW store.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Cambonimachine wrote:Verviedi- Honestly man, You know full well your opponent is a Donkey-cave. So knowing there is no pleasing him unless he has autowin on planet bowling ball, and even then he will cheat every chance he gets, Run whatever formation you want however you come by the rules.
If he pitches a fit about it, just sit down and paint some gants. Youre probably the only person in the area that will play him anymore, so eventually he will come around.
With that said, when he DOES come around, he is gonna piss and moan every time you do something that messes up his plans. If he cant show you the rules for it, he cant do it. And every time he throws a tantrum, just sit back and smile, because you are watching a grown man's sad little dreams of winning at something for once in his life die.
OH! and if he tries to argue a rule that you have in black and white and wont let up on it or anything like that, smile, start packing your dead, and if he still hasnt come around, pack up your minis, turn around and paint some gants.
NO game is worth that kinda hassle bro.
Just got scans of Valedor, so I'm hunting for some nice, medium sharp formations.
56617
Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:Cambonimachine wrote:Verviedi- Honestly man, You know full well your opponent is a Donkey-cave. So knowing there is no pleasing him unless he has autowin on planet bowling ball, and even then he will cheat every chance he gets, Run whatever formation you want however you come by the rules.
If he pitches a fit about it, just sit down and paint some gants. Youre probably the only person in the area that will play him anymore, so eventually he will come around.
With that said, when he DOES come around, he is gonna piss and moan every time you do something that messes up his plans. If he cant show you the rules for it, he cant do it. And every time he throws a tantrum, just sit back and smile, because you are watching a grown man's sad little dreams of winning at something for once in his life die.
OH! and if he tries to argue a rule that you have in black and white and wont let up on it or anything like that, smile, start packing your dead, and if he still hasnt come around, pack up your minis, turn around and paint some gants.
NO game is worth that kinda hassle bro.
Just got scans of Valedor, so I'm hunting for some nice, medium sharp formations.
Valedor is Apoc only stuff. You want the dataslates.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Played him. He went first.
Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1.
Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1
This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board.
I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse.
Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
79456
Post by: Cambonimachine
Why do i have the feeling you got cheated... again?
86452
Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote:Played him. He went first. Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1. Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1 This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board. I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse. Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
How did the Flyrants die first turn? And what did the rest of the army consist of? Synapse isn't an issue for some models.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:Played him. He went first.
Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1.
Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1
This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board.
I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse.
Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
How did the Flyrants die first turn?
You have to start the game in Gliding mode. Railgunned and Pulse Rifled to death because he went first.
And what did the rest of the army consist of? Synapse isn't an issue for some models.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I spent most of that game half-comatose, it was so boring and one-sided.
86452
Post by: Frozocrone
Well that's true...but you should have been able to take armour saves from the Pulse Rifles, unless your opponent
A) Cheated the amount of hits and wounds/S and AP values
B) You just got unlucky rolling saves, this happens to everyone
Also if Tau aren't ignoring your cover (they aren't all the time) then by sticking a Venomthrope near your Flyrants, you've got access to a 2+ cover (Gliding MC have access to Jink).
What list did your opponent run? Same one posted a few pages back?
79456
Post by: Cambonimachine
I forgot about the jink thing as well... unless you just rolled awful you shouldnt have lost 1+most of the other flyrant
70127
Post by: luke1705
Your Flyrants can be left in reserve if you feel that his alpha-strike is too strong; however that's a large chunk of any list's synapse so I wouldn't recommend it. Remember the Flyrants can absolutely jink, that you should have 4+ cover somewhere on the board that you can set your Flyrants in or behind, and that most missions will roll for night fighting. You're looking at 3+ cover first turn no matter what, even if you're on planet bowling ball (4+ if no night fighting).
Also worth pointing out that you should probably grab a Venomthrope pretty soon. Even against Tau, it will make him have to shoot at things that aren't your Hive Tyrants first, and if you get a decent setup, you can set up the Venomthrope outside of line of sight of the Tau broadsides. He will make your Tyrants have +2 to their cover save (so 2+ in terrain or 2+ when the tyrants jink or 3+ when they are behind a second unit. That is increased to 2+ with night fighting). Basically you can make him want to go second because of the alpha-strike protection that you have against all but the best tau lists with less-than-ideal terrain coverage
56617
Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:Played him. He went first.
Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1.
Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1
This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board.
I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse.
Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
No Terrain again? You need to make yourself a bunker so you always have atleast one LOS blocking terrain.
47473
Post by: gigasnail
make sure the table has terrain, or your game isn't going to be a lot of fun. nids live or die by their cover saves. venom and/or malanthrope and terrain are a must-take.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Newest members of the army.
44751
Post by: SBG
Nice looking MC's!
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Thank you. Just finished them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If they aren't price gouged too badly and they are viable, I may be ordering a Toxicrene or Maleceptor!
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Anybody want to PM me where I can find the Malanthrope rules? I want a copy of IA - The Anphelion Project, but I'm not interested in paying $60 + $900 shipping and handling.
86702
Post by: Asmodas
Verviedi wrote:Anybody want to PM me where I can find the Malanthrope rules? I want a copy of IA - The Anphelion Project, but I'm not interested in paying $60 + $900 shipping and handling.
Just do a google image search for malanthrope.
86452
Post by: Frozocrone
Verviedi wrote:Anybody want to PM me where I can find the Malanthrope rules? I want a copy of IA - The Anphelion Project, but I'm not interested in paying $60 + $900 shipping and handling.
Echoing Asmodas.
But good luck trying to use it in a battle against your Tau opponent, it's going to be an Internet source.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Asmodas wrote:Verviedi wrote:Anybody want to PM me where I can find the Malanthrope rules? I want a copy of IA - The Anphelion Project, but I'm not interested in paying $60 + $900 shipping and handling.
Just do a google image search for malanthrope.
Got a legible copy. Thanks. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:Anybody want to PM me where I can find the Malanthrope rules? I want a copy of IA - The Anphelion Project, but I'm not interested in paying $60 + $900 shipping and handling.
Echoing Asmodas.
But good luck trying to use it in a battle against your Tau opponent, it's going to be an Internet source.
Don't worry. I won't use it for games at the GW store. Automatically Appended Next Post: Right. So my usual opponent is getting Grey Knights next weekend. They should make for some actually fun games!
Any advice on absolutely crushing Grey Knights?
He has a Paladin Squad and a Purgation Squad right now.
Next weekend he is buying the Nemesis Vanguard set and a Stormraven.
61964
Post by: Fragile
Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:Played him. He went first.
Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1.
Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1
This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board.
I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse.
Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
How did the Flyrants die first turn?
You have to start the game in Gliding mode. Railgunned and Pulse Rifled to death because he went first.
And what did the rest of the army consist of? Synapse isn't an issue for some models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I spent most of that game half-comatose, it was so boring and one-sided.
What size boards do you play on?
Pulse rifles are 30". You deploy 37" away and they cant hit your flyrants. Not to mention that Tau are crappy BS skill without markerlights. And even still those Pulse rifles need 4+ to hit and 5+ to wound and you get a 3+ save. The 12 Firewarriors should get 6 hits with 2 wounds and you will have a fair chance to save both of those. That Riptide and Hammerhead can hit you, but that should not be enough to kill the Flyrant without serious Markerlight support. Markerlights are 36" and are heavy.. so you can either set up 43" away and be perfectly safe just set up 37" away and they have to snap fire most of the time.
Jinking while in Glide mode will save you from about half the wounds if you hide from the Markerlights. A venomthrope makes that 2+.
Deploying properly, the OP list will only have the 2 Hammerheads and Riptide in Range. That is probably 3-4 actual hits and 1-2 Wounds after Jinking. Less with a Venomthrope. Once Swooping your relatively safe and should go after his troop units.
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Post by: Verviedi
Fragile wrote:Verviedi wrote: Frozocrone wrote:Verviedi wrote:Played him. He went first.
Flyrant 1- Dead turn 1.
Flyrant 2- 1 wound left turn 1
This left the entire right side of the table with no Synapse. A unit of Termagants ran off the board.
I conceded turn 2 when both my Tervigon and Zoanthrope died, leaving my army with 0 Synapse.
Being forced to start the game in Gliding mode is BS.
How did the Flyrants die first turn?
You have to start the game in Gliding mode. Railgunned and Pulse Rifled to death because he went first.
And what did the rest of the army consist of? Synapse isn't an issue for some models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I spent most of that game half-comatose, it was so boring and one-sided.
What size boards do you play on?
Pulse rifles are 30". You deploy 37" away and they cant hit your flyrants. Not to mention that Tau are crappy BS skill without markerlights. And even still those Pulse rifles need 4+ to hit and 5+ to wound and you get a 3+ save. The 12 Firewarriors should get 6 hits with 2 wounds and you will have a fair chance to save both of those. That Riptide and Hammerhead can hit you, but that should not be enough to kill the Flyrant without serious Markerlight support. Markerlights are 36" and are heavy.. so you can either set up 43" away and be perfectly safe just set up 37" away and they have to snap fire most of the time.
Jinking while in Glide mode will save you from about half the wounds if you hide from the Markerlights. A venomthrope makes that 2+.
Deploying properly, the OP list will only have the 2 Hammerheads and Riptide in Range. That is probably 3-4 actual hits and 1-2 Wounds after Jinking. Less with a Venomthrope. Once Swooping your relatively safe and should go after his troop units.
We were playing on a 4' by 4' ROB board at the GW store. The FW team had a Fireblade in them, so they got 24 shots instead of 12. 19 hit, 7 wounded, and I failed 5 saves.
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Post by: Desubot
Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
 Desubot wrote:Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
.......They moved 6" to get into range......
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
61618
Post by: Desubot
lel yeah you really needa slow down and read there rule book before you play
"Volley Fire: If the FB and every model in the unit remains stationary in the movement phase, there PR or PC fire an additional shot in the shooting phase."
and just in case it comes up. the Ethereal power only works in rapid fire range. (half range)
61964
Post by: Fragile
Verviedi wrote: Desubot wrote:Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
.......They moved 6" to get into range......
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Well, we are finding more and more reasons why you keep losing. None of them are related to Nids
Everything this guy is doing that seems over powering or crippling to you, sit down and read a Tau codex about.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
Fragile wrote:Verviedi wrote: Desubot wrote:Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
.......They moved 6" to get into range......
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Well, we are finding more and more reasons why you keep losing. None of them are related to Nids
Everything this guy is doing that seems over powering or crippling to you, sit down and read a Tau codex about.
Next time I play him, I am posting a Battle Report.
44751
Post by: SBG
Good, I'm curious to know about the shady dice rolls and rules bending. Hope the game goes well.
81025
Post by: koooaei
Fragile wrote:Verviedi wrote:
Every list I see is Double Flyrants, Malanthropes, Mawlocs, Biovores, and Hive Crones, with Rippers capping objectives.
Every Eldar list I see has Farseers, Wraithknights, Jetbikes, Wave Serpents, Fire Warriors.
Every Tau list I see has Riptides, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Kroot, Crisis Suits, Farsight,
Every Space Marine list has Bikes, Tac squads, Drop Pods, Centurions, Chapter masters..
You can play that game with every Dex.
People are just still locked in min max 6- th ed approach. You'll find out that lots of units have their uses now.
9230
Post by: Trasvi
Why are you worrying so much about the Hammerhead?
If you spread out properly. the hammerhead can kill maybe 8 Gaunts per turn, if they have no cover. If it shoots at your Flyrant, on average it does less than 1 wound a turn.
If you know you're going second, or are worried about seizing, or have little cover, don't be afraid to deploy your stuff on your back line. You'll still be in range 2nd turn but you negate his alpha strike and can your beasties in the air. Very little in the Tau army can be deadly from over 36" away.
Tau *can* be great at taking out FMC's - but generally they want a few broadsides or sniper drones to do that.
It sounds a lot like he doesn't know the rules well - partly understood, part from the book, part for last edition, part wishful thinking. I'm not going to say its on purpose - I know a lot of people who are kind of the same, and all of us get a rule wrong every now and then. Unfortunately part of the burden falls on you to know how parts of his army work. If things sound too good to be true, or different from what you've heard on the internet or different from your understanding, pause the game to read his rulebook.
Check how he is using his markerlights - it still sounds a bit wrong that he's getting so much mileage out of so few markerlights. Remember:
- markerlights are heavy, so pathfinders/firewarriors with Markerlights will snap-shot after moving
- markerlights still roll to hit as normal. This means BS3 for Fire Warriors, BS5 for Fireblade, BS2 for drones unless they have a controller
- markerlight use must be declared by the firing unit before shooting. Meaning you can waste markerlights ignoring cover if you don't hit in the first place.
- 2 markerlight hits to ignore cover; 1 markerlight hit for +1BS. To get BS5 and ignores cover that requires 4 hits.
- markerlight hits are used per unit - if one unit uses 2 markerlights to get +2 BS, the next unit to fire needs an additional 2 markerlights for +2 BS.
61618
Post by: Desubot
Trasvi wrote:Why are you worrying so much about the Hammerhead?
If you spread out properly. the hammerhead can kill maybe 8 Gaunts per turn, if they have no cover. If it shoots at your Flyrant, on average it does less than 1 wound a turn.
Aren't Flyrants T5 to Hammerhead St10?
47462
Post by: rigeld2
Desubot wrote:Trasvi wrote:Why are you worrying so much about the Hammerhead?
If you spread out properly. the hammerhead can kill maybe 8 Gaunts per turn, if they have no cover. If it shoots at your Flyrant, on average it does less than 1 wound a turn.
Aren't Flyrants T5 to Hammerhead St10?
Flyrants are T6. Harpies and Crones are T5.
56617
Post by: barnowl
Verviedi wrote:Fragile wrote:Verviedi wrote: Desubot wrote:Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
.......They moved 6" to get into range......
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Well, we are finding more and more reasons why you keep losing. None of them are related to Nids
Everything this guy is doing that seems over powering or crippling to you, sit down and read a Tau codex about.
Next time I play him, I am posting a Battle Report.
The we can go over just what is being, bent, played wrong and where you might be making critical mistakes.
89756
Post by: Verviedi
barnowl wrote:Verviedi wrote:Fragile wrote:Verviedi wrote: Desubot wrote:Did they move at all?
Yaknow it only works if they dont move.
.......They moved 6" to get into range......
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Well, we are finding more and more reasons why you keep losing. None of them are related to Nids
Everything this guy is doing that seems over powering or crippling to you, sit down and read a Tau codex about.
Next time I play him, I am posting a Battle Report.
The we can go over just what is being, bent, played wrong and where you might be making critical mistakes.
Thanks!
89756
Post by: Verviedi
My opponent just bought the Nemesis Vanguard. I'm guessing he's going GKs
86702
Post by: Asmodas
Cheers, Verviedi, congrats on the win! Weird force your opponent was running, though. GK/IG/Tau?
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