leopard wrote: meanwhile the Whirlwinds and Vindicators I have cry
As long as you're working with a local group and not taking them to a tournament, I would imagine that most players would let you kludge together some rules for them. The trickiest part would be figuring out the points values, imo.
Edit: I'll add...
It's somewhat ironic. Those were some of the first vehicles released for Epic (after the obligatory Rhinos, Land Raiders, and Predators, obviously) back in the day. And there's no sign of them right now. But at the same time, I kind of understand. I suspect GW is prioritizing getting each of the armies with a distinctive feel. So Great Slaughter focuses more on fast attack stuff for the AA, while the SA get artillery and more tanks.
FYI I have made cards for all the detachments using a spreadsheet and mail merge. They are very basic, but they work. Another guy on Reddit took my basic cards and really fancied them up some. I’ll post when my card set is updated with GS.
On the topic of mantic, I was really excited for it, but going 12mm scale does not feel epic. People have commented LI being 8 mm instead of 6 mm already made the board more crowded. Imagine how it will be at 12 mm. It is similar to why I did not choose Flames of War for my historical, 15 mm does not really feel that epic. (I want Bolt Action so I had 28 mm stuff for better modeling and some crazy cross games with 40K.
Bearing in mind that the Legions marine troops are almost 10mm (9.5 I think?) with terminators even larger - all of the infantry, tanks, titans are a fair bump up in scale from the original game.
I think Legions will look far more similar to the new Epic Warpath game in scale than it will to original Epic.
Well personally I think GW scaled AT18 and LI just right. I can't stop staring the little models and tanks, they are large enough to show immersive amount of detail, but still small enough as to give a meaningful scale difference. A 4x4' LI table equals a 16 x 16' 40K table, that's plenty for the size of games I am interested in..
vadersson wrote: On the topic of mantic, I was really excited for it, but going 12mm scale does not feel epic. People have commented LI being 8 mm instead of 6 mm already made the board more crowded. Imagine how it will be at 12 mm. It is similar to why I did not choose Flames of War for my historical, 15 mm does not really feel that epic.
the difference between 6,8,10mm is in that case just the number of models per base
EWP will have 4 10mm models per 25mm base were LI has 5 8mm models, while the size of the tanks is not fixed yet for EWP (currently they plan the vehicles a little smaller than they should be) but their standard size being in the line of super heavies from LI so not that far off regarding space needed on the table
For me, a more "epic" feeling would be with a single unit being a single base, the size/number of models does not really matter and neither of those games do that
yet EWP looks to handle the scale they are aiming for better by not trying to be large than what is practical
6mm, 15mm & 28mm (maybe 20mm as well) work because terrain is readily available in these scales to the point many will have it or know someone who has
new scales to try and flog a specific range of models while shutting out others is frankly starting to get silly
I'd have been very happy with Legions in actual 15mm as I have a stack of 15mm terrain for example, 6mm would have worked in the same way
I'm making new stuff for it, but yet another scale is annoying
Which makes mantic so much weirder for using 6mm terrain with their new 12mm scale minis. It seems like they planned to be a 6mm game but couldn't get the infantry right, the vehicles also look more like 6mm though hard to tell with the lack of actual pics of the painted minis.
they talked about it in a podcast that they had no specific scale in mind but just tried which model size had the right balance between details/size and would still be doable in plastic and settled for that which gave them a 10/11mm total size for regular humans
and for the terrain, the settled with an already existing small scale terrain line out there in addition to new plastic terrain to increase accessibility and variation
also 10mm or 1/144 terrain is commonly available and given that games like 40k change the terrain size/shape requirements every 3 years without people complaining that they need to make everything new again, generic small scale terrain works for various sizes (a forest, hill or commieblock will do it for any scale between 8-12mm)
same with different models, looking at what as currently available as 10mm infantry the size varies a lot between them
Is it known already how big the bases for the Jetbikes and Outriders are? Looks like 40mm, but could also be 32mm or even 38,7mm - it's GW after all...
I somehow liked the idea of having most, or all models on 25mm bases. While bikes don't need to enter building and such, I always liked the small epic bases, as it looked nice and, well "epic".
kodos wrote: they talked about it in a podcast that they had no specific scale in mind but just tried which model size had the right balance between details/size and would still be doable in plastic and settled for that which gave them a 10/11mm total size for regular humans
and for the terrain, the settled with an already existing small scale terrain line out there in addition to new plastic terrain to increase accessibility and variation
also 10mm or 1/144 terrain is commonly available and given that games like 40k change the terrain size/shape requirements every 3 years without people complaining that they need to make everything new again, generic small scale terrain works for various sizes (a forest, hill or commieblock will do it for any scale between 8-12mm)
same with different models, looking at what as currently available as 10mm infantry the size varies a lot between them
Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
leopard wrote: dunno whats so hard about 6mm infantry to be honest, plenty of games have 6mm infantry, and 6mm infantry that can be made visually distinctive as well
issue may be more manufacture than design though
The TMG plastic 6mm infantry were not as good as their metal offerings. They orcs were in a very flat 'gorilla' pose and the humans were way too thin. I assume they never made more plastic sprues (for infantry) after this due to the issues making that sprue.
leopard wrote: dunno whats so hard about 6mm infantry to be honest, plenty of games have 6mm infantry, and 6mm infantry that can be made visually distinctive as well
issue may be more manufacture than design though
The TMG plastic 6mm infantry were not as good as their metal offerings. They orcs were in a very flat 'gorilla' pose and the humans were way too thin. I assume they never made more plastic sprues (for infantry) after this due to the issues making that sprue.
maybe, the old Epic 1st edition plastics were fine though, in terms of what they were being recognisable, orks, eldar, marines, guard
stratigo wrote: Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
the Warlord Games Epic ECW models?
those are 15mm and yes it is annoying as the very first epic models from Warlord were smaller and on the larger 12mm side but the ECW ones are "true" 15mm models and also fit other 15mm metal models
Mantic has their super-humans said to be 12mm total size, so it will be a smaller than the Epic ones from WG
leopard wrote: dunno whats so hard about 6mm infantry to be honest, plenty of games have 6mm infantry, and 6mm infantry that can be made visually distinctive as well
issue may be more manufacture than design though
The TMG plastic 6mm infantry were not as good as their metal offerings. They orcs were in a very flat 'gorilla' pose and the humans were way too thin. I assume they never made more plastic sprues (for infantry) after this due to the issues making that sprue.
maybe, the old Epic 1st edition plastics were fine though, in terms of what they were being recognisable, orks, eldar, marines, guard
simple poses to be sure, but effective
They were Ok for their times but look quite meh by today's standards IMHO. They were also more fragile than LI models AFAIR. The LI Astartes are quite sturdy in fact, aside from the Assault Marines with their one-handed weapons.. I got plenty of 1st edition Epic tac marines who were snapped off in two from the knees, heck, you had to be careful even plugging them onto the bases at times
was thinking more the ones from the boxed set than the 1st edition starter, the MkVII guys not the MkVI who could be fragile, don't remember having many break myself but saw a good few
stratigo wrote: Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
the Warlord Games Epic ECW models?
those are 15mm and yes it is annoying as the very first epic models from Warlord were smaller and on the larger 12mm side but the ECW ones are "true" 15mm models and also fit other 15mm metal models
Ew really? Their epic scale minis vary in size by period??
stratigo wrote: Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
the Warlord Games Epic ECW models?
those are 15mm and yes it is annoying as the very first epic models from Warlord were smaller and on the larger 12mm side but the ECW ones are "true" 15mm models and also fit other 15mm metal models
Ew really? Their epic scale minis vary in size by period??
I think it's just the ECW. I believe the ACW and Napoleonics are properly scaled against each other.
However, something to keep in mind is that the only difference between regular and Epic scale Black Powder is the size of the figures. The game is still exactly the same. Someone with Epic figures could play a game against someone with 25mm figures, and nothing would need to be changed.
stratigo wrote: Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
the Warlord Games Epic ECW models?
those are 15mm and yes it is annoying as the very first epic models from Warlord were smaller and on the larger 12mm side but the ECW ones are "true" 15mm models and also fit other 15mm metal models
Ew really? Their epic scale minis vary in size by period??
the ACW and Waterloo models are close (though some of the Waterloo ones are a little bit smaller), but both hit that official 13,5mm base to eye while the ECW ones are closer to 15mm to the eye
hence and Epic Mantic Enforcer given the size of 12mm total, it will be smaller than a Warlord Epic model by a similar difference as it will be larger than an LI Space Marine
stratigo wrote: Having bought a 12mm scale wargame, pike and shotte epic, I hate the scale. Too detailed for me to cheat the painting Like I am for legions, small enough that it hurts my hand doing it. Is real annoying
the Warlord Games Epic ECW models?
those are 15mm and yes it is annoying as the very first epic models from Warlord were smaller and on the larger 12mm side but the ECW ones are "true" 15mm models and also fit other 15mm metal models
Ew really? Their epic scale minis vary in size by period??
I think it's just the ECW. I believe the ACW and Napoleonics are properly scaled against each other.
However, something to keep in mind is that the only difference between regular and Epic scale Black Powder is the size of the figures. The game is still exactly the same. Someone with Epic figures could play a game against someone with 25mm figures, and nothing would need to be changed.
this is not strictly true, you can take the normal Black Powder rules and play in 15mm, 6mm, heck 2mm and it will work, can even go to 54mm if you want
what they did with the Epic version was swap inches out for cm, which sounds good enough, and should have been but then they kept the unit frontages the same as the 28mm versions, which is daft as the commanders radius is now in cm and as such is basically useless.
this was a problem with the ACW version, where units were meant to be five bases wide, less so with the Napoleonic one where they went to four bases and the ECW looks like three bases.. had they kept measurement in inches and essentially just used the normal black powder rules, or rescaled the unit widths by the same amount it would have been fine
as it was when I tried it on a 6x4 table with just a single brigade of three regiments, plus some cannons on each side with a single commander the game became farcical as you either had an echelon formation or one unit was going to be out of command range at all times
the models are very nicely done though and are fine if you ignore the "epic" rulebook and just play the actual game
This scale discussion is not relevant to LI, take it to its own thread please. Either the Mantic thread for their product or a new thread in discussions for the general point.
SM units:
Scimitars & Land Speeders are brutal, they pack a punch + Outflank for very few points.
Bikes, meh.
Drop Pods, extremely good for the super low cost. Problem is getting enough Spartan very very good (Assault!!), Land raider seems not as good but then you see "Vanguard Deployment" and boom!!
SA units:
Dracosan too expensive (where is the second wound?? this is Malcador what we are talking about).
Basilisk, average. 1 shot at 5+ won't get far, but used as a regular tank with direct fire can compete with the Leman Russ. In the artillery company (and only in the artillery Co., that requieres just too many models) becomes very good as anti-tank artillery. For anti-infantry it just doesn't get enough shots. So people please stop screaming broken, because these (as the Vanquisher LR) will be close to useless against SM infantry/cavalry/air.
Medusa: meh.
Stormhammer: the Baneblade was good anti-infantry. This is just insane AP firepower and very good too with anti-tank weaponry.
I wonder when all these can be bought...
I find the TitanDeath rules very very good (it fixes some problems with costing of weapons, and allocation of hits).
can see bikes being useful in conjunction with infantry, get them charging, but specifically position to go around and hit from the rear - idea of cutting off retreat and maximising bases in contact, will take some practice but at least they are cheap
guessing dracosan is one wound because otherwise it starts to get silly, and even more expensive
as for when they can be bought.. oh so the key question
guessing dracosan is one wound because otherwise it starts to get silly, and even more expensive
Oh but the Spartan doesn't get silly?
And the points cost of the Dracosan seems for a 2 wound model...
Spartan is "Assault Transport", its also more heavily armed and in the fluff allround better armoured, could see the second would being ~50% extra to the cost then its really out of whack for the likely cargo, v the Spartan which is likely bringing terminators
horses for things horses run round, given the cost of the infantry inside it I think the Dracosan is pretty decent where it is
the Spartan is actually quite interesting, given its got 8 lasercannons the thing only having a two dice attack is likely stopping thats points going right up at which points its robustness becomes questionable.
I suspect as well as GW screwing up points balance here, not including for upgrades, except on some aircraft and transports where they are starting to add costs they have gotten the baseline cost wrong, make basic marines cost twice what they do, scale from there and you have more space to vary costs and have it mean something
water under something water goes under though as its unlikely to change
guessing dracosan is one wound because otherwise it starts to get silly, and even more expensive
Oh but the Spartan doesn't get silly?
And the points cost of the Dracosan seems for a 2 wound model...
Spartan is "Assault Transport", its also more heavily armed and in the fluff allround better armoured, could see the second would being ~50% extra to the cost then its really out of whack for the likely cargo, v the Spartan which is likely bringing terminators
horses for things horses run round, given the cost of the infantry inside it I think the Dracosan is pretty decent where it is
the Spartan is actually quite interesting, given its got 8 lasercannons the thing only having a two dice attack is likely stopping thats points going right up at which points its robustness becomes questionable.
I suspect as well as GW screwing up points balance here, not including for upgrades, except on some aircraft and transports where they are starting to add costs they have gotten the baseline cost wrong, make basic marines cost twice what they do, scale from there and you have more space to vary costs and have it mean something
water under something water goes under though as its unlikely to change
It feels like it was handed off to someone else, none of the new units have any point incentive for taking larger detachment sizes, and every unit in the rulebook for solar aux and marine does in some way.
The dracosan is fine IMO, it's almost have the cost of a malcador, which aren't that great tbh, and I really like the idea of the dracosan ogryn battle bus of doom
oh it certainly feels disconnected to the main book, but then half the units in the main book seem to have been worked out by someone who had heard about the book but never read it
leopard wrote: oh it certainly feels disconnected to the main book, but then half the units in the main book seem to have been worked out by someone who had heard about the book but never read it
To that point too about the new book feeling disconnected, cyclops remote bombs have no language about not counting towards a detachments break point, so until those get faq'd, a remote weapon designed for a singular purpose somehow greatly risks sadening the rank and file and risking that they run if old splodey explodes
It also really really does seem like the author(s)? forgot to give the death storm pods orbital assault.
With the book not having any marine artillery, or any light armour for either faction, I'm a bit concerned a third book will just be handed off again to someone else.
leopard wrote: oh it certainly feels disconnected to the main book, but then half the units in the main book seem to have been worked out by someone who had heard about the book but never read it
To that point too about the new book feeling disconnected, cyclops remote bombs have no language about not counting towards a detachments break point, so until those get faq'd, a remote weapon designed for a singular purpose somehow greatly risks sadening the rank and file and risking that they run if old splodey explodes
It also really really does seem like the author(s)? forgot to give the death storm pods orbital assault.
With the book not having any marine artillery, or any light armour for either faction, I'm a bit concerned a third book will just be handed off again to someone else.
It seems like the whole Rulebook+expansion were made like patches. Everything disconnected, and untested.
Also, Medusa is a siege bunkerbuster weapon. Yet it lacks Siege, or Bunkerbuster in the weapon profile....
leopard wrote: oh it certainly feels disconnected to the main book, but then half the units in the main book seem to have been worked out by someone who had heard about the book but never read it
To that point too about the new book feeling disconnected, cyclops remote bombs have no language about not counting towards a detachments break point, so until those get faq'd, a remote weapon designed for a singular purpose somehow greatly risks sadening the rank and file and risking that they run if old splodey explodes
It also really really does seem like the author(s)? forgot to give the death storm pods orbital assault.
With the book not having any marine artillery, or any light armour for either faction, I'm a bit concerned a third book will just be handed off again to someone else.
It seems like the whole Rulebook+expansion were made like patches. Everything disconnected, and untested.
Also, Medusa is a siege bunkerbuster weapon. Yet it lacks Siege, or Bunkerbuster in the weapon profile....
Yep, there are a lot of head scratchers, for what its worth my local group is very open to house rules so I am going to fix the medusa with the exact suggestions you made.
It seems like the whole Rulebook+expansion were made like patches. Everything disconnected, and untested.
Also, Medusa is a siege bunkerbuster weapon. Yet it lacks Siege, or Bunkerbuster in the weapon profile....
Yeah siege weapon would have been perfect for it, basically if it doesn't move it's gun would be 24 instead of 12.
I don't know why they bothered with all he detail and crunchiness if they're gonig to forget to even use what they already wrote, but also, like more concern shown to how a deredeo interacts with skyfire than the natural 6's always hitting making a mockery of specificity and specialization. Tanks driving full speed while hitting planes is bad enough, but I figured if anything was going to flat out say you can't move and shoot it would be dedicated artillery, and if they can't summon saying no, at least an incentive to not move, like siege weapon special rule. Could have been on the basilisk's gun as well and taken the gun from like 45 to 90 if the tank doesn't move, but not only did that not happen, the author(s)? saw fit to do that formation that negates the only downside left of artillery/barrage, he -1 to hit.
It's a shame the cards have been monetised as an extra 'DLC' in this game, as they were included in the box in the previous versions.
And having them almost impossible to obtain, looking at the prices on eBay they have turned into a scalper special. Meaning without the Legion Builder app most people will be pencil and papering their army lists. I guess that bit will make us nostalgic for the 90s.
I'm now waiting for GW to issue a C&D to the app builders just to stop that thing being very useful for players of the game. The only thing that's probably saved it is that development from this game is presumably being carried out by two juniors stuck in the basement, looking at how well playtested it has been, and so no-one has noticed..
Pacific wrote: It's a shame the cards have been monetised as an extra 'DLC' in this game, as they were included in the box in the previous versions.
And having them almost impossible to obtain, looking at the prices on eBay they have turned into a scalper special. Meaning without the Legion Builder app most people will be pencil and papering their army lists. I guess that bit will make us nostalgic for the 90s.
I'm now waiting for GW to issue a C&D to the app builders just to stop that thing being very useful for players of the game. The only thing that's probably saved it is that development from this game is presumably being carried out by two juniors stuck in the basement, looking at how well playtested it has been, and so no-one has noticed..
That app is so brilliant as well, especially since it's been updated to include specific loadouts if you so choose to. It's been the single greatest resource for helping local players get the hang of list building, really hope that doesn't happen.
zedmeister wrote: Wonder if they're saving Siege artillery for either the Bombard or the Minotaur?
its possible but if the basilisk isn't proper artillery not sure what is, think its more likely they have designers not putting too much effort in
Theres different types of artillery and not all of them are siege weapons
Can we agree that carefully calculated attacks with parabolic arcs of fire aren't really aided by driving full speed, or moving at all, generally? Siege weapon doesn't even represent artillery THAT well, it's a bare minimum carrot in terms of design there to hopefully encourage a detachment not to move with a nice bonus to their range. Really it should be all or nothing, but we don't even get that, we get one gun with 90 inch range, in a game that's 48x60 and a another with 12 inch range. Both apparently artillery, and both apparently to circumvent the only downside of barrage weapons being the -1 incurred for targeting detachments in range but out of los by being taken in an artillery formation. Just seems very odd, like robotic tanks exploding causing formations to break levels of odd
I wonder if the new book will get a quick faq.
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Formosa wrote: The Solar Aux Basilisk for example is a leman russ chassis so a mix of MBT and Artillery piece.
Can't wait will they're firing at flyers while moving full speed to really give that barrage siege weapon sorta feel
Can't wait will they're firing at flyers while moving full speed to really give that barrage siege weapon sorta feel
Fortunately the 'barrage' trait stops them doing that.
It does not. I just read it again, zero mention of not being allowed to target flyers. The basilisks just need natural 6's. So yea they really can drive full speed and target flyers.
Can't wait will they're firing at flyers while moving full speed to really give that barrage siege weapon sorta feel
Fortunately the 'barrage' trait stops them doing that.
Never know, we may see the heavy flak cannon from AI v1 return firing skyshaker shells…
Basilisk Anti Aircraft Guns are a thing in AI, I used 3D printed Basilisk tanks to represent them. So no problem with that, the moving then shooting sounds a bit wrong for them though.
Wait a second, Basilisks can actually cover the entire table with an AA umbrella... only hitting on 6s true but they have good AP... If there are not many juicy tank targets it seems like another good use of them...
Pacific wrote: So.. artillery knocking aircraft down out of the sky... Please tell me that is not a thing here?
could be worse, could have guided anti tank missiles able to shoot down aircraft as well
at least this time they have made it so flame throwers with a template can't hit fliers
as noted if you more or less need a 6 to hit a flier anyway, and a six is always a hit regardless of penalties, a gun with a 90" range able to fire indirect becomes the mother of all anti aircraft guns
could be worse, could have guided anti tank missiles able to shoot down aircraft as well
This has happened in real life. During the Iran-Iraq War in the '80s, Iran used some of their US-built helicopters (purchased while the Shah was still in power) to shoot down Iraqi helicopters (probably Hinds, though I don't remember for certain), using the ATGMs that the helicopters carried.
could be worse, could have guided anti tank missiles able to shoot down aircraft as well
This has happened in real life. During the Iran-Iraq War in the '80s, Iran used some of their US-built helicopters (purchased while the Shah was still in power) to shoot down Iraqi helicopters (probably Hinds, though I don't remember for certain), using the ATGMs that the helicopters carried.
It's not common, but it's happened.
yes that was the justification in the Team Yankee game, though still not shooting down actual aircraft thankfully
If memory serves, dropships were the best dogfighters in 40k 7th ed, cause everyone had the same flyer rules and they had the most armour and the most guns.
Well, that's a hell of a rules blunder if anything. I wonder if they forgot to exclude barrage weapons from being able to fire at flyers. I'm guessing that an assumption was made by someone that barrage weapons are blast weapons and forgot to double check.
Either way, I'll probably look to convince my local opponents to add a houserule so that only allow Skyfire weapons can shoot at flyers...
Pacific wrote: So.. artillery knocking aircraft down out of the sky... Please tell me that is not a thing here?
could be worse, could have guided anti tank missiles able to shoot down aircraft as well
at least this time they have made it so flame throwers with a template can't hit fliers
as noted if you more or less need a 6 to hit a flier anyway, and a six is always a hit regardless of penalties, a gun with a 90" range able to fire indirect becomes the mother of all anti aircraft guns
zedmeister wrote: Well, that's a hell of a rules blunder if anything. I wonder if they forgot to exclude barrage weapons from being able to fire at flyers. I'm guessing that an assumption was made by someone that barrage weapons are blast weapons and forgot to double check.
Either way, I'll probably look to convince my local opponents to add a houserule so that only allow Skyfire weapons can shoot at flyers...
Hey do not forget Mole Mortars are good AA weapons in LI ( a whooping -2 AP against them too).
Pacific wrote: So.. artillery knocking aircraft down out of the sky... Please tell me that is not a thing here?
Just a sign of the huge core problem of everything hitting flyers on 6's, I don't think its unreasonable, but I do wish they had to purchase like flakk shells for the opportunity or something. Being able to do this while backing away at full speed from possible enemy closing in gets really silly though.
Pacific wrote: So.. artillery knocking aircraft down out of the sky... Please tell me that is not a thing here?
could be worse, could have guided anti tank missiles able to shoot down aircraft as well
at least this time they have made it so flame throwers with a template can't hit fliers
as noted if you more or less need a 6 to hit a flier anyway, and a six is always a hit regardless of penalties, a gun with a 90" range able to fire indirect becomes the mother of all anti aircraft guns
zedmeister wrote: Well, that's a hell of a rules blunder if anything. I wonder if they forgot to exclude barrage weapons from being able to fire at flyers. I'm guessing that an assumption was made by someone that barrage weapons are blast weapons and forgot to double check.
Either way, I'll probably look to convince my local opponents to add a houserule so that only allow Skyfire weapons can shoot at flyers...
Hey do not forget Mole Mortars are good AA weapons in LI ( a whooping -2 AP against them too).
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leopard wrote: mole mortars are essentially the best AAA currently, limited only by range
Sadly ya they really strain credibility from a fluff perspective.
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zedmeister wrote: Well, that's a hell of a rules blunder if anything. I wonder if they forgot to exclude barrage weapons from being able to fire at flyers. I'm guessing that an assumption was made by someone that barrage weapons are blast weapons and forgot to double check.
Either way, I'll probably look to convince my local opponents to add a houserule so that only allow Skyfire weapons can shoot at flyers...
What frustrates me is for all the detail and crunchiness they mess up core things like that. The bigger issues its peaks to though is, basically nothing is forced to not move in order to fire, or given an incentive to in order to fire with increased efficacy. The deredeo kinda does that but it's sad that they considered that but not mole mortars or other artillery being able to target flyers/move and shoot. Advance order is the super order because a unit get to move, shoot and overwatch, first fire loses out pretty hard on that account.
I hope we get a faq soon, the cyclops needs fixing for sure to even be playable imo.
mole mortars notwithstanding, artillery pieces being used as anti-aircraft batteries (airbursting fragmentation/flak rounds were very much a thing in the ww1/ww2 era, though have long fallen out of use) and ATGMs being used in an anti-helicopter role (in fact, many ATGMs are designed with that explicit capability in mind) are both very much things in the real world.
lord_blackfang wrote: If memory serves, dropships were the best dogfighters in 40k 7th ed, cause everyone had the same flyer rules and they had the most armour and the most guns.
Even with snapfire/ hitting on 6's in 7th, unless weapons really specialized in the AA role, it actually was pretty good balance in that flyers ended up being the best counter to other flyers quite often. You'd still have stuff like flakk missiles or dedicated AA tanks but you didn't have the whole board throwing dice and praying for 6's. In LI sadly, if it has light at you may as well throw it at a plane and hope for 6's, or if a weapon has considerable rate of fire like the titan level megabolters. That's also where stuff like rapid get a little too good against flyers as well.
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chaos0xomega wrote: mole mortars notwithstanding, artillery pieces being used as anti-aircraft batteries (airbursting fragmentation/flak rounds were very much a thing in the ww1/ww2 era, though have long fallen out of use) and ATGMs being used in an anti-helicopter role (in fact, many ATGMs are designed with that explicit capability in mind) are both very much things in the real world.
But those are not even close to 1/6 sorta weapons, 88 flak had to fire a hell of a lot to be effective, compete air carpet hoping an air burst/shrapnel would be enough to down a bomber in proximity. If every 6 rounds that went up a bomber went down, like, we'd be living in a different world right now, they're just not that effective. Firing on fixed wing vs chopper is super different in terms of ground based AA, but there's no real distinction in LI, most vtol capable craft still operate as flyers unless in hover mode.
The problem is with everything being a bit too capable at hitting flyers on 6's, it diminishes the specialized AA units somewhat. I have no problem conceptually with basilisks having the ability to buy flakk rounds, but i also don't want basilisks moving and firing normally, they already have range for the entire board up to 8 inches from themselves.
The tarantuals AA that are part of this release for aux and marines that everyone will be building soon, those can't even intercept, so bombers can get first kick at the can.
Over the past 100 years the average number of rounds of small arms ammunition expended per casualty inflicted has ranged from 20,000 to 100,000 rounds per casualty, depending on the conflict in question. Ergo, lasguns, bolters, etc. shouldn't be 1 in 6 weapons either, and yet we have no problem with the abstraction there.
To-hit rolls are abstractions. Rolling once dice does not necessarily represent a single shot. It is part of the over all representation that the firing model is successful, or not, in causing the target to be combat ineffective within the arbitrary length of time of the turn.
Right but doing so while moving full speed isn't an abstraction, it's just silly. It's like one line of rules not written. Are we going to make a real world case for mole mortars moving 4 inches then firing at planes? It's one line of rules they couldn't summon themselves to write in both cases.
"A detachment with a mole mortar may not target flyers unless in hover mode." And hell I only mention hover mode for simplicity, I don't even know what the right answer is on skimmers. My baseline assumption actually would be them only being able to target "ground" targets, for lack of a better term.
"Barrage weapons require that the firing detachment not move in order to be able to fire."
Whether or not you want to get rid of everything hitting planes on 6's, the moving and shooting stuff is a bit silly. Adding the siege weapon rule to the medusa would also help fix thing in a round about way, because although it wouldn't prevent moving and shooting, it would double the range if the medusas chose not to move, taking them from 12-24 helps a lot as well.
IIRC the tarantula flak battery, while lacking an intercept rule, or the ability to overwatch is specifically able to fire in the advance movement stage when activated.
I don't think they are all that scary really, but have yet to fire the flak ones at a flier as no flier has yet gotten in range of them, short of a bomber overflying them in its activation they will get to fire before other shooting, and fire normally
not that a bomber could hit them, what with bombers moving on from their table edge, moving and being removed at the end of the turn so basically seriously limited in what they can bomb anyway
leopard wrote: IIRC the tarantula flak battery, while lacking an intercept rule, or the ability to overwatch is specifically able to fire in the advance movement stage when activated.
I don't think they are all that scary really, but have yet to fire the flak ones at a flier as no flier has yet gotten in range of them, short of a bomber overflying them in its activation they will get to fire before other shooting, and fire normally
The new plastic tarantulas sadly always get smoked by the bombs because they just can't intercept sadly, both marine and aux ones can still activate right after and fire if there are any left alive.
leopard wrote: IIRC the tarantula flak battery, while lacking an intercept rule, or the ability to overwatch is specifically able to fire in the advance movement stage when activated.
I don't think they are all that scary really, but have yet to fire the flak ones at a flier as no flier has yet gotten in range of them, short of a bomber overflying them in its activation they will get to fire before other shooting, and fire normally
not that a bomber could hit them, what with bombers moving on from their table edge, moving and being removed at the end of the turn so basically seriously limited in what they can bomb anyway
You mean shooting down *airplanes*. Helicopters are aircraft.
Using ATGMs against slower and less agile low-flying aircraft seems perfectly reasonable to me (albeit at a penalty). For that matter, the Falcon Grav-Tank is technically an aircraft, but no one would complain about using an ATGM against it (except maybe it's owner). But using an ATGM against a Vampire is absurd.
I hear ya Brother Sarduka! I too hate that no date is given for the release in AU, but then they will release it all along with even more products, just to beat our wallets into submission!
GW has struck again by supposedly selling the new Dire Wolf kits to liquidators that are popping up on eBay. These continued logistical issues are very concerning for the longevity of this game
The last time that happened wasn't it a bunch of sewage damaged material from Forgeworld and the Eldar Collectible coins - all of which was supposed to be sent to the skip and instead got sold on ebay.
This might be more of the same group of people stealing kits and reselling them if they are hitting the wild that far ahead of release. That or someone getting their kits early with a trade account or such.
Overread wrote: The last time that happened wasn't it a bunch of sewage damaged material from Forgeworld and the Eldar Collectible coins - all of which was supposed to be sent to the skip and instead got sold on ebay.
This might be more of the same group of people stealing kits and reselling them if they are hitting the wild that far ahead of release. That or someone getting their kits early with a trade account or such.
The liquidator they sold the Leman Russ kits a couple months ago is a partner of theirs supposedly. While I would like to think that nefarious actors are at play, this is right in line with other issues they've had. The silver lining is, that we know they have announced LI units in stock at global warehouses (in the US at least) and their release is coming soon if this is true.
Ahh I'd not heard about the Russ kits. That said I'd be very confused as to why GW were selling stock to a Liquidator for products that aren't even being sold retail yet. That doesn't really make much sense?
Overread wrote: Ahh I'd not heard about the Russ kits. That said I'd be very confused as to why GW were selling stock to a Liquidator for products that aren't even being sold retail yet. That doesn't really make much sense?
Agreed. That'd very strange, and not something that I'm comfortable with.
Overread wrote: Ahh I'd not heard about the Russ kits. That said I'd be very confused as to why GW were selling stock to a Liquidator for products that aren't even being sold retail yet. That doesn't really make much sense?
The probable answer is: they weren't selling stock to a liquidator, it's someone who got stolen product and is making gak up to cover their butts.
chaos0xomega wrote: Or it got mistakenly mixed in with stuff that was intended to go to the liquidators
But can we rule out bartering with houthi pirates for leman russ boxes?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Schrödingers Primarch wrote: GW strikes again, sold the Dire Wolf kits to liquidators that are popping up on eBay. These continued logistical issues are very concerning for the longevity of this game
I hope both dire wolves don't have fixed poses, seems odd for both be modelled with the same leg out front.
So 2 options, the janitor is stealing unreleased kits from the warehouse to sell them on eBay on a regular basis
Or GW has major issues with logistics/distribution and is shipping the wrong kits
For everything else that is going on, which of those 2 are in line with sold out kits/books showing up in bulk in some place and a recently "finished" change in ERP system
The most realistic explanation I can see for stock being 'liquidated' is that a shipping container got lost / damaged so badly in transit that it has been written off from GW's POV, and the insurer is now recovering whatever cash it can through bulk sale. GW themselves definitely wouldn't want unreleased products getting out into the public like this, but a freight forwarder / insurer wouldn't care at all. If they've paid out via an insurance policy then whatever is recovered would also be their stock.
A lost container would also explain why LI releases have been so delayed.
xttz wrote: The most realistic explanation I can see for stock being 'liquidated' is that a shipping container got lost / damaged so badly in transit that it has been written off from GW's POV, and the insurer is now recovering whatever cash it can through bulk sale. GW themselves definitely wouldn't want unreleased products getting out into the public like this, but a freight forwarder / insurer wouldn't care at all. If they've paid out via an insurance policy then whatever is recovered would also be their stock.
A lost container would also explain why LI releases have been so delayed.
That's a good point, damaged containers and stock being sold off after insurance and so forth by the company.
As you say GW wouldn't want brand new stock (for things that aren't even on retail) to go to a liquidation firm for sale. Heck no firm would want to do that.
Theft is also not out of the question either and they don't even need much stock to make a noise on the internet.
Well from Lord_Blackfang's observation, that feels like it might be the same thing here. A company clearing our insurance loss items in bulk wouldn't have no other items listed.
tauist wrote: These Dire Wolves are the fist Titan models that I think look hella derp. Not touching these with a ten foot pole, regardless of their viability
I like mine. They look better in person than in photos, IMO. I also adjusted mine to lengthen the side guns and think it helped the overall composition of the model.
tauist wrote: These Dire Wolves are the fist Titan models that I think look hella derp. Not touching these with a ten foot pole, regardless of their viability
I like mine. They look better in person than in photos, IMO. I also adjusted mine to lengthen the side guns and think it helped the overall composition of the model.
Spoiler:
Very nice. One gallery vote for you! I like 'em as well, though they need a bit of re-posing to make them look a lot less static. Certainly fit the "Destroyer" type Titan...
Here's mine, both reposed but the one on the right I've cut up to make it look like it's walking
tauist wrote: These Dire Wolves are the fist Titan models that I think look hella derp. Not touching these with a ten foot pole, regardless of their viability
I like mine. They look better in person than in photos, IMO. I also adjusted mine to lengthen the side guns and think it helped the overall composition of the model.
Spoiler:
Very nice. One gallery vote for you! I like 'em as well, though they need a bit of re-posing to make them look a lot less static. Certainly fit the "Destroyer" type Titan...
Here's mine, both reposed but the one on the right I've cut up to make it look like it's walking
Nice!
And yeah, some cutting and sawing to reposition the feet and legs is definitely worth it.
why they are not more posable is a mystery, they have made other such highly posable (e.g. the Reaver titans), and if going for a single frame per titan makes more sense
tauist wrote: Dont get me wrong, these examples are nicely modelled and painted, but I just dont like the silhouette no matter how well you paint em
But that's cool, plenty of choices for everyone
The biggest problem for me is having basically the same heads as warhounds, would have loved if at least there was a b option for heads that looked more unique like some of the eagle head conversions.
I'm noticing several LGS's have received stock of the Civitas Imperialis (including some discounter shops) all of a sudden. So some items are moving. However, the constant lack of availability for any Astartes kits is concerning
It is very concerning, lots of money for the business to make if they'd had the stock level required.
Unfortunately there's the risk of people losing interest or in more cases using printed kits which could mean stock eventually being left on the shelf. When that starts to happen we risk the bean counters deciding it's not worth supporting anymore and this the supply of new kits stop.
I wonder if the introduce a new plastic Weapon Sprue for the Reaver Titan with the announced Titan Lance Box, they never released so far, like the sprue for the Warhound with the LI Starter.
I wish they release Decals for LI in the same Quality like for 28mm HH, there is no small golden Emperors Children Iconography on that 28mm Sheet.
tauist wrote: I'm noticing several LGS's have received stock of the Civitas Imperialis (including some discounter shops) all of a sudden. So some items are moving. However, the constant lack of availability for any Astartes kits is concerning
They're also back in Stock online at the GW Webshop.
tauist wrote: I'm noticing several LGS's have received stock of the Civitas Imperialis (including some discounter shops) all of a sudden. So some items are moving. However, the constant lack of availability for any Astartes kits is concerning
Tell me about it.. I've got a stock alert with about 5 places for the Astartes infantry, so far nothing! And they have been out of stock for some time.
gorgon wrote: If there are Dire Wolf kits in the wild, logic suggests it won't be too long. They won't want to warehouse that stuff for weeks and weeks.
Otherwise, the Leman Russ seperate Box on Ebay was in Early January...
We had rumors and speculations about additional weapon options for Tanks like Predator or Leman Russ based on Rulebook Illustrations, I wonder if they realy make them seperate weapon Sprues or Resin by Forgeworld.
Otherwise, the Leman Russ seperate Box on Ebay was in Early January...
We had rumors and speculations about additional weapon options for Tanks like Predator or Leman Russ based on Rulebook Illustrations, I wonder if they realy make them seperate weapon Sprues or Resin by Forgeworld.
At this scale they'll just be a separate kit, one more sprue will be easy enough to justify for a unit as iconic as the leman russ. The fact that they're keeping a clear distinction between "strike squadron" and "assault squadron" strongly implies another plastic box in future.
However depending on the number of weapon options included in the assault version I'd be concerned about the number of tanks per sprue dropping from 4 to 3, like predators.
I was expecting my preorders to arrive today to the local GW store. While my bases and Astartes support had arrived, the cards did not, and even worse, I received a refund statement from GW regarding them!
Anyone else getting their cards?
This is pissing me off quite a bit to be honest.. I ordered my cards at 11:54 on the preorder morning, which was over 3 minutes earlier than they sold out. Besides, shouldn't GW have sent me the refund notice way back then. when they realized they wouldnt have enough stock?
Seems GW can't organise an orgy in a brothel.I when I ordered the rogue trader rulebook last year,I noticed the first line of my address was missing immediately after I placed the order(damn you autofill).So I notified them about it,and they confirmed twice the address had been ammended.Royal mail tried to deliver it last week but said couldn't be delivered due to missing or incorrect address.Now I gotta wait god knows how long for GW to sort what happens next
duanimal wrote: Seems GW can't organise an orgy in a brothel.I when I ordered the rogue trader rulebook last year,I noticed the first line of my address was missing immediately after I placed the order(damn you autofill).So I notified them about it,and they confirmed twice the address had been ammended.Royal mail tried to deliver it last week but said couldn't be delivered due to missing or incorrect address.Now I gotta wait god knows how long for GW to sort what happens next
Anecdote I know, but don’t rule out Royal Mail being crap here. In recent months, I’ve had two packages of my 2000ad Ultimate Collection returned to sender, apparently due to incomplete address. Despite me being 166 issues in, and having had no other such problems with Hachette. And the last change of address occurring in April 2022, when I last moved.
Could be a squished parcel. Could be they dropped it in an oily puddle obliterating the address.
And this time? They didn’t even tell me it was being returned. Had to find that out from Hachette.
In an unexpected turn of events, I just walked away from a LGS with the LI cards in my pocket! LGS had plenty of the cards, whereas GW Helsinki had none and no ETA on when they would be getting more..
The marine support units come with a ridiculous number of components for models of this size. Just the Deredeo missile launchers alone are four bits each, and each box makes four of them. These dreads & weapon platforms have consumed most of my free time today, with some still left to do tomorrow.
Spartans are definitely my favourite part of this release. Big and chunky tanks with plenty of detail, fun to assemble and a nice successor to the old 1-piece epic land raiders. Looking forward to opening up the valdor/infernus box next.
Also, having built my first box of them, careful clipping the Sponsons. I knocked the end off one of each.
Not a deal breaker as we have options within the box. But if you’re wanting four with Laser Destroyer or four with Quad Lascannons, go easy and take care. They are fragile, but nothing a bit of care can’t handle.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, having built my first box of them, careful clipping the Sponsons. I knocked the end off one of each.
Not a deal breaker as we have options within the box. But if you’re wanting four with Laser Destroyer or four with Quad Lascannons, go easy and take care. They are fragile, but nothing a bit of care can’t handle.
Thanks for the heads up! I received some of my stuff, but didn't start assembling anything yet.
Apparently LI preorders went up in Oz today. I didn't know they were going up and didn't check until the evening, most of it seems to be still available but the cards are gone. Astartes Supports and the book are still available from GW themselves for people who want to burn money, but most of the independents have sold out of them.
Oh well, I think I'm done with LI for now, see where it goes and come back to it if things improve, going back to old editions.
Still waiting for my order. Oh well hopefully Monday. Royal mail is not too reliable here. Just got a letter first class today posted near me and delivery time from postmark is 11 days.
I’m expecting my book Monday or Tuesday. I’m expecting my two additional Legion Support…who knows!
I ordered from Element, who sent me a courtesy email to advise there’s been a delay. Whilst vague (understandably so, just in case) it suggests their overall shipment is due next week. But it could be GW stiffed them on the order.
Seems like GW frequently does that to independent stores. If I'm really desperate and excited about something I get it delivered to my nearest GW store. Case in point the new HHSA box.
Mostly wanting the books now. I nabbed a set of the cards so I can pass them on to someone who’s keen.
But for now I’ve used them to get an idea of how I wanted to assemble my Spartans. Which I’ve done.
The cards for me don’t work as well as seeing a Detachment’s options on the page. So with the book arriving tomorrow, I should be able to plan the ongoing shape of my army.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Mostly wanting the books now. I nabbed a set of the cards so I can pass them on to someone who’s keen.
But for now I’ve used them to get an idea of how I wanted to assemble my Spartans. Which I’ve done.
The cards for me don’t work as well as seeing a Detachment’s options on the page. So with the book arriving tomorrow, I should be able to plan the ongoing shape of my army.
For me spartans was easy. 2 of each sponson I like variety. Laser destroyers got heavy bolters on principle of some point defence good on short range while quad las got lascannon hull weapon to maximize range.
For malcadors went with lascannon sponson on neutron blaster and autocannon on flamers. Again variety.
Well, that was a pleasant surprise.
I got everything I ordered at 1 shop except 1 box of Spartans & my pack of cards.
(Overall the shop was only shorted 3 boxes of Spartans & my cards)
So I just called up the next local shop, confirmed they had both Spartans & cards and had them held for me.
I had my entire order, now spread between 2 shops, by dinner time.
And then it was on to building many tiny tiny support weapons.
Had a longer telephone call with my best friend....
We speculated if GW maybe bring the Stormhammer as a Resin-Hybrid Kit with the Plastic Baneblade Sprue as basic modell, that they maybe bring (after those "bad" plastic Marines) other Mk Types and Tartaros in Resin and if the next release wave brings Artillery for the Solar Auxilia and missing Warplanes and Titans.
Another Topic was the introduction of Characters and how they could work.
Games Workshop wrote:
They’ll be available soon in plastic!
Why speculate about resin-plastic hybrid kits when GW already said what the material will be?
To be fair, that part about plastic was edited into the article a day or two afterwards. We spent a while discussing it (and social media responses) in this thread.
I guess WarCom got sick of those questions because not long later they started to include "FW resin" or "plastic" in every new model announcement.
ccs wrote: Well, that was a pleasant surprise.
I got everything I ordered at 1 shop except 1 box of Spartans & my pack of cards.
(Overall the shop was only shorted 3 boxes of Spartans & my cards)
So I just called up the next local shop, confirmed they had both Spartans & cards and had them held for me.
I had my entire order, now spread between 2 shops, by dinner time.
And then it was on to building many tiny tiny support weapons.
My pre-order has not shipped from GW yet. Still shows in process. Anyone else in the US received their pre-order of cards and book from GW?
Just got the tracking this morning, to be here by the end of the week; jives the "we're going to be slow in shipping" announcement as they try to update their warehouse.
Krinsath wrote: Just got the tracking this morning, to be here by the end of the week; jives the "we're going to be slow in shipping" announcement as they try to update their warehouse.
GW site is bananas at the moment. A huge chunk of items are Temporarily Out Of Stock on their site and that's not just LI but other areas as well.
I don’t think it’s their website though. All that really has to do with it is accurately reflecting availability. Not just “yes it’s in stock”, but ideally no more “no longer available” when it’s a case of “sold out but more coming”.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Element has now shifted to expected 8 March.
Again for clarity this isn’t a criticism of Element, as it’s out their hands.
I don’t think it’s their website though. All that really has to do with it is accurately reflecting availability. Not just “yes it’s in stock”, but ideally no more “no longer available” when it’s a case of “sold out but more coming”.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Element has now shifted to expected 8 March.
Again for clarity this isn’t a criticism of Element, as it’s out their hands.
Definitely their new warehousing/stock controlling system. There's been a steady flow of rumblings over the last year or so over the problems it's causing them...
Orders at both FLGS not delivered due to GW not supplying. One (two dread boxes) no news, other (one box spartans) saying they've been told their $2k order was canceled completely, one time item, no restock, maybe in 6-9 months. Kinda kicking my enthusiasm in the knees.
Krinsath wrote: Just got the tracking this morning, to be here by the end of the week; jives the "we're going to be slow in shipping" announcement as they try to update their warehouse.
Got a UPS notification yesterday with expected delivery listed as Friday, Mar. 8, but as of this morning UPS only showing it as label created with delivery date to be updated and GW site still showing order being processed. I am getting a sinking feeling that either the cards or the book have been oversold and because orders placed directly with GW delivering to private addresses apparently get fulfilled last, I am somewhat expecting a message soon stating they had to cancel one of the items. This is assuming they wouldn't bother entering a shipment order into UPS if they didn't have at least one of the items.
As others have said, this supply fiasco is strangling this game and really weighing down my enthusiasm.
On the positive side, my order through an FLGS for Two Spartan boxes and Astartes support box arrived.
Suffice to say, the two week pre-order window was supposed to give GW more time to organize and execute fulfillment. Doesn't seem to be working with all the anecdotal accounts of incomplete, late, or outright cancelled orders.
Our group is just starting to get games in. I have yet to play but have about 2k painted. Couple of the guys in group have printed and painted some great terrain.
Really hoping stock flows better or I could see us moving to prints or a different system.
bullyboy wrote: Our group is just starting to get games in. I have yet to play but have about 2k painted. Couple of the guys in group have printed and painted some great terrain.
Really hoping stock flows better or I could see us moving to prints or a different system.
That is a great looking board! Are those GW road tiles or are they printed?
bullyboy wrote: Our group is just starting to get games in. I have yet to play but have about 2k painted. Couple of the guys in group have printed and painted some great terrain.
Really hoping stock flows better or I could see us moving to prints or a different system.
That is a great looking board! Are those GW road tiles or are they printed?
Looks like top is GW tiles or something very close. Second one is some kind of poster-map, looks like.
I did a quick look through the new book for any images that are the same format as boxarts so together with the ones from the core book any of these are likely to be the next plastic reveals:
Spoiler:
Shadowsword
Autocannon Russ
Plasma Russ
Terrax Drill
Sabre Tank
Magaera/Styrix (These have the same formfactor but a slightly different style so might not be a boxart)
Nice catches. But there's so much stuff waiting to come out right now just from the rules that we have that I'm hoping we don't see any of the vehicles in those pictures right away.
bullyboy wrote: Our group is just starting to get games in. I have yet to play but have about 2k painted. Couple of the guys in group have printed and painted some great terrain.
Really hoping stock flows better or I could see us moving to prints or a different system.
That is a great looking board! Are those GW road tiles or are they printed?
Top one is GW tiles, bottom is a drop ship commander mat I believe
Neither are mine btw
bullyboy wrote: Our group is just starting to get games in. I have yet to play but have about 2k painted. Couple of the guys in group have printed and painted some great terrain.
Really hoping stock flows better or I could see us moving to prints or a different system.
Looks great.
How did you/they paint the lines on the road...so straight (white n yellow)
Also the brow staining on the grey areas looks great, mine are a bit too clear grey atm.
guessing the lines are a mix of masking tape and sponging markings - at least thats how I'm planning it. makes straight lines easy and time to adjust before adding the paint
If you have a 3D printer, I can recommend doing stencils. I repurposed some stencils meant for model railways, and added a few of my own. It’s easy with rectilinear road tiles to make full-width masks that slot easily into place in the same way every time.
I got a little bleed through on this set, so notkk no perfect, it it was quick to do, and the gaps between markings are easy enough to trim down with a it more black paint.
Hopefully Light Armour for Space Marines. There’s nothing units wise at all for that battlefield role, and we now have multiple Detachments which can take such.
On the other hand, unless they have plans for a massive wave of LI models that will release nearly everything that's still currently missing from the game (but that we have rules for) in one go...
Given that any new units would need another expansion book and it seems too soon for that with so much of a backlog, I wonder if this reveal will be either terrain, or a plastic kit for existing units like armigers/fw knights.
xttz wrote: Given that any new units would need another expansion book and it seems too soon for that with so much of a backlog, I wonder if this reveal will be either terrain, or a plastic kit for existing units like armigers/fw knights.
Well the first unit from the current expansion book was revealed on August 24th and is still not available (SA artillery). Meanwhile the book itself was only officially revealed on January 4th and released on March 2nd.
So it doesn't seem too unlikely they are already starting with revealing the models for the next expansion.
But I still think plastic Knights/Titans stuff is more likely
xttz wrote: Given that any new units would need another expansion book and it seems too soon for that with so much of a backlog, I wonder if this reveal will be either terrain, or a plastic kit for existing units like armigers/fw knights.
Well the first unit from the current expansion book was revealed on August 24th and is still not available (SA artillery). Meanwhile the book itself was only officially revealed on January 4th and released on March 2nd.
So it doesn't seem too unlikely they are already starting with revealing the models for the next expansion.
Which imo is fine if, and only if, they have a plan to get the missing stuff out in a hurry.
it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
clodax66 wrote: it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
clodax66 wrote: it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
Not to get too OT based on this one comment, but I frequently "try before I buy" using bases as proxies to experiment with unit builds and tactics. Then I buy minis based on some play experience.
Well the first unit from the current expansion book was revealed on August 24th and is still not available (SA artillery). Meanwhile the book itself was only officially revealed on January 4th and released on March 2nd.
So it doesn't seem too unlikely they are already starting with revealing the models for the next expansion.
But I still think plastic Knights/Titans stuff is more likely
Standard practice for GW marketing now is to gradually unveil a group of upcoming models, then finish that group by announcing the expansion book / codex / etc last. The release delay obviously caused a long pause in new reveals, so for TGS that reveal period was much longer than normal.
New knights would be cool (especially plastic armigers), but I would expect those closer to any future Mechanicum release. However new terrain makes sense earlier because we have a few older terrain kits pending re-release with the next large wave for epic scale, and something like a "Militas Imperialis" building could easily be slotted in with those without requiring any new rules.
xttz wrote: Given that any new units would need another expansion book and it seems too soon for that with so much of a backlog, I wonder if this reveal will be either terrain, or a plastic kit for existing units like armigers/fw knights.
Another option is a transfer of resin Titan weapons across to plastic. Warbringer could do with new heads and decoration as well as extra carapace weapons. Reavers have plenty of weapons that could be made in plastic
Another option is a transfer of resin Titan weapons across to plastic. Warbringer could do with new heads and decoration as well as extra carapace weapons. Reavers have plenty of weapons that could be made in plastic
Warbringer could be the case since its the only Titan left with only one version. Reavers are unlikely to get another kit since they already have two and they all the resin weapons are just carapace weapons. They already have all their arm weapons in plastic
clodax66 wrote: it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
I would like to differ
Well I stand corrected. You can play with pictures
clodax66 wrote: it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
I would like to differ
Poser.
If you were a true 40k hobbyist, you would have hand colored every one of those yourself.
Finally, I recieved my LI box and started with building the tanks first. Looking at the instructions I realized that it says "build 8x" for Leman Russ, "4x" for Sicaran & Malcador and "6x" for the Predators. However, the picture on the back of the box shows only have of those numbers, included where also only half of the sprues. The Leman Russ also seems to be a little too small, shouldn't the PRedator be the smaller of the two tanks?
Sorry for the stupid question, but did I miss anything here?
clodax66 wrote: it would be nice if they just released more of the models they revealed in the last 6 months before revealing more models. It's nice to see new models revealed , but you can't play with pictures.
Rhakkachan wrote: Finally, I recieved my LI box and started with building the tanks first. Looking at the instructions I realized that it says "build 8x" for Leman Russ, "4x" for Sicaran & Malcador and "6x" for the Predators. However, the picture on the back of the box shows only have of those numbers, included where also only half of the sprues. The Leman Russ also seems to be a little too small, shouldn't the PRedator be the smaller of the two tanks?
Sorry for the stupid question, but did I miss anything here?
I believe that's a mistake in the instructions, where they've just copied and pasted them from the instructions designed for the individual releases of the kits, which have twice the number of each vehicle as you get in the starter box.
Those tanks are beautiful, but the fact that the game that has been released less than a year ago is getting a third (and probably not the last) book for the two core factions is honestly ridiculous.
Kretualdo wrote: Those tanks are beautiful, but the fact that the game that has been released less than a year ago is getting a third (and probably not the last) book for the two core factions is honestly ridiculous.
True, especially if you factor in availability... The Great Slaughter is currently out of stock on GW's website, so even if you can get your hands on the new minis, you can't get the rules (in an official, legal, fashion, and unless you want the digital version of the rulebook, which many people don't).
leopard wrote: Guess they didn't want to go the way HH did, publish the full lists then drip feed models hoping those who printed or proxied by official replacements
Heresy was released to existing players with often extensive collections. Legions Imperialis much less so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yeah, launching Horus Heresy 2.0 with only rules for the first wave of plastic kits would have been like if they released a new space marine codex for 10th where the only rules available were for those units that were in the Leviathan box. It would have pissed off a lot of existing customers. The reality is that basically everything that had rules published in a hardback book when HH2.0 released had model kits available, either in plastic or in resin.
Really, though, the two factions need to start settling into their respective roles. So the Auxilia need their big guns - both in super-heavy tanks, and artillery.
Though I still stand by my earlier statement that GW had better have a massive wave of releases before we get the next book.
Eumerin wrote: The Astartes have the Kratos super-heavy.
Really, though, the two factions need to start settling into their respective roles. So the Auxilia need their big guns - both in super-heavy tanks, and artillery.
Though I still stand by my earlier statement that GW had better have a massive wave of releases before we get the next book.
It's not a super heavy, it's just a tank (heavy tank, like malcador).
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Kretualdo wrote: Those tanks are beautiful, but the fact that the game that has been released less than a year ago is getting a third (and probably not the last) book for the two core factions is honestly ridiculous.
Agreed, especially with no mia culpa from gw and zero communications on when even baseline units that are still only in the starter will be available on their own. I couldn't even get the 2nd book and now don't want it, can't see the 3rd one being a better situation sadly. But ya, 60$ for another 10 pages of unit rules is getting a bit cynical even for gw.
Eumerin wrote: The Astartes have the Kratos super-heavy.
Really, though, the two factions need to start settling into their respective roles. So the Auxilia need their big guns - both in super-heavy tanks, and artillery.
Though I still stand by my earlier statement that GW had better have a massive wave of releases before we get the next book.
It's not a super heavy, it's just a tank (heavy tank, like malcador).
No, the Malcador is a battle tank. Both the Kratos and the Baneblade are found in "Heavy Tank Detachments". The Malcador is found in a "Battle Tank Detachment". The Kratos, like the Baneblade, has a 2+ save and 2 wounds. The Malcador also has 2 wounds, but has a 3+ save (the only other tank with a 2+ save is the Leman Russ). The Solar Auxilia movement distribution for its tanks is 7" (Baneblade), 8" (Leman Russ), and 9" (Malcador). The Astartes movement distribution is 8" (Kratos), 9" (Predator), 10" (Sicaran).
The Kratos has more in common with the Baneblade than it does with the Malcador, imo.
And, again, Solar Auxilia gets the big heavy stuff. They're the slow, ponderous army with the big guns. The Astartes are the faster, more flexible and responsive army.
No, the Malcador is a battle tank. Both the Kratos and the Baneblade are found in "Heavy Tank Detachments". The Malcador is found in a "Battle Tank Detachment". The Kratos, like the Baneblade, has a 2+ save and 2 wounds. The Malcador also has 2 wounds, but has a 3+ save (the only other tank with a 2+ save is the Leman Russ). The Solar Auxilia movement distribution for its tanks is 7" (Baneblade), 8" (Leman Russ), and 9" (Malcador). The Astartes movement distribution is 8" (Kratos), 9" (Predator), 10" (Sicaran).
The Kratos has more in common with the Baneblade than it does with the Malcador, imo.
And, again, Solar Auxilia gets the big heavy stuff. They're the slow, ponderous army with the big guns. The Astartes are the faster, more flexible and responsive army.
That's cool and everything but the Baneblade is listed as "Super-heavy Vehicle" (scale 3) while the kratos is just a "Vehicle" (scale 2)
Eumerin wrote: The Astartes have the Kratos super-heavy.
Really, though, the two factions need to start settling into their respective roles. So the Auxilia need their big guns - both in super-heavy tanks, and artillery.
Though I still stand by my earlier statement that GW had better have a massive wave of releases before we get the next book.
It's not a super heavy, it's just a tank (heavy tank, like malcador).
No, the Malcador is a battle tank. Both the Kratos and the Baneblade are found in "Heavy Tank Detachments". The Malcador is found in a "Battle Tank Detachment". The Kratos, like the Baneblade, has a 2+ save and 2 wounds. The Malcador also has 2 wounds, but has a 3+ save (the only other tank with a 2+ save is the Leman Russ). The Solar Auxilia movement distribution for its tanks is 7" (Baneblade), 8" (Leman Russ), and 9" (Malcador). The Astartes movement distribution is 8" (Kratos), 9" (Predator), 10" (Sicaran).
The Kratos has more in common with the Baneblade than it does with the Malcador, imo.
And, again, Solar Auxilia gets the big heavy stuff. They're the slow, ponderous army with the big guns. The Astartes are the faster, more flexible and responsive army.
And a kratos isn't a superheavy fren. This is the entire point people are complaining about, marines need some super heavies, like actual ones. Solar aux have enough already, stormhammer box isn't even out yet either so with this new preveiw that makes like 5 super havies for solar aux.
No, the Malcador is a battle tank. Both the Kratos and the Baneblade are found in "Heavy Tank Detachments". The Malcador is found in a "Battle Tank Detachment". The Kratos, like the Baneblade, has a 2+ save and 2 wounds. The Malcador also has 2 wounds, but has a 3+ save (the only other tank with a 2+ save is the Leman Russ). The Solar Auxilia movement distribution for its tanks is 7" (Baneblade), 8" (Leman Russ), and 9" (Malcador). The Astartes movement distribution is 8" (Kratos), 9" (Predator), 10" (Sicaran).
The Kratos has more in common with the Baneblade than it does with the Malcador, imo.
And, again, Solar Auxilia gets the big heavy stuff. They're the slow, ponderous army with the big guns. The Astartes are the faster, more flexible and responsive army.
That's cool and everything but the Baneblade is listed as "Super-heavy Vehicle" (scale 3) while the kratos is just a "Vehicle" (scale 2)
Exactly ya.
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ingtaer wrote: I just hope we get Sabres sooner rather than later. Though these SH are very pretty.
Eumerin wrote: The Astartes have the Kratos super-heavy.
Really, though, the two factions need to start settling into their respective roles. So the Auxilia need their big guns - both in super-heavy tanks, and artillery.
Though I still stand by my earlier statement that GW had better have a massive wave of releases before we get the next book.
This is Horus Heresy though, Space Marines had big guns in their Super Heavy Tanks in 30k.
It's one thing to both like and dislike about 30k as a setting, Astartes fill basically every role (at least everything smaller than a Titan). They have the super heavies, they have the big guns, they have the air force to support them.
I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Same, I think people forget that the main fighting force in the Heresy was the Marines, they were the "imperial guard" of the time, the ones that did the main slogging of warfare while everything else was in support of them.
I also suspect we will not just be getting the Glaive, Fellblade and Falchion, I reckon we are going to get a new super heavy, also worth noting is the other Spartan chassis tanks like the Cerberus and Typhon then of course the Mastodon, all of this will help shorten the gap in armoured warfare with the Auxlia.
Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Same, I think people forget that the main fighting force in the Heresy was the Marines, they were the "imperial guard" of the time, the ones that did the main slogging of warfare while everything else was in support of them.
[snip].
I think people "forget" that, because its patently ridiculous.
Adding all the legion peak strengths together (taken from 40k fandom site, with no accuracy check) is about 2.1 million marines. An Imperium of 1m worlds cannot be retaken with that number of marines.
The only way it works is if the auxiliary baseline human forces are at the same scale as the Guard, i.e. quadrillions of troops.
According to the 40k fandom site numbers, there were twice as many Remembrancers as there were Marines, and apparently over 4,000 primary expedition fleets, or an average of around 500 marines per fleet.
Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Same, I think people forget that the main fighting force in the Heresy was the Marines, they were the "imperial guard" of the time, the ones that did the main slogging of warfare while everything else was in support of them.
[snip].
I think people "forget" that, because its patently ridiculous.
Adding all the legion peak strengths together (taken from 40k fandom site, with no accuracy check) is about 2.1 million marines. An Imperium of 1m worlds cannot be retaken with that number of marines.
The only way it works is if the auxiliary baseline human forces are at the same scale as the Guard, i.e. quadrillions of troops.
According to the 40k fandom site numbers, there were twice as many Remembrancers as there were Marines, and apparently over 4,000 primary expedition fleets, or an average of around 500 marines per fleet.
The orders of magnitude are just way off...
Yeah, the Astartes were still only a small part of the Imperium in 30k. The book "Legion" focuses on the Imperial Army.
The difference was, the Astartes had a broad range of capabilities. The fielded titan hunting superheavies, they fielded artillery, they had a significant air force, they don't do that stuff in 40k which gives the Imperial Guard a niche separate to the capabilities of the Astartes.
I'm only about half way through the Horus Heresy novels, at this point it seems most of the heavy lifting is done by Imperial Army rather than Solar Auxilia though.
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Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Yeah, that's the nice side, the bad side to me is that they don't have a strong identity with clear strengths and weaknesses, capabilities and limitations.
Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Same, I think people forget that the main fighting force in the Heresy was the Marines, they were the "imperial guard" of the time, the ones that did the main slogging of warfare while everything else was in support of them.
[snip].
I think people "forget" that, because its patently ridiculous.
Adding all the legion peak strengths together (taken from 40k fandom site, with no accuracy check) is about 2.1 million marines. An Imperium of 1m worlds cannot be retaken with that number of marines.
The only way it works is if the auxiliary baseline human forces are at the same scale as the Guard, i.e. quadrillions of troops.
According to the 40k fandom site numbers, there were twice as many Remembrancers as there were Marines, and apparently over 4,000 primary expedition fleets, or an average of around 500 marines per fleet.
The orders of magnitude are just way off...
and yet its still true, the marines were the main fighting force of the Imperium of the time, everything else was support for the marines and the primarchs, marines ran the fleets, the imperial army "mostly" were seconded to marine forces, titans were pledged to legions and knight houses too.
500 marines and 10,000 imperial army support ran by marines in aid of making sure the marines won the fight. Just because the largest fighting force was the Imperial army does not mean they were the main fighting force, they were used for garrison duty, support elements, putting down rebellions etc. while the marines were given the lions share of resources, the best weapons and equipment etc. the stark change the Codex brought was to make the marines the support element while the imperial army (guard) became the main fighting force of the imperium, the fleets were detached from the marines and they only kept small flotillas of strike craft, they lost dedicated support elements of human auxilleries and armour such as legion Baneblades and artillery companies and were reduced in strength to 1000 marines not the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.
we literally have 50+ novels showing this is the case.
And the magnitude is off with reqular soldiers. Numbers off which way you look.
Age of Sigmar has benefit of using little hard numbers. Its more of adjectives. You have uncounted ranks clashing. Scores of bodies flying around and so on.
Maybe because it's fantasy they feel more comfortable not adding hard numbers?
Marines were the blade of the Great Crusade. Warriors near perfect for shock and awe, there to take planets rapidly, and hopefully without a protracted conflict to minimise any damage to infrastructure.
That done? Off they went to the next world or system to bring about compliance, or to engage an oncoming threat.
Holding those planets largely fell to other forces - just as it is in the current day Imperium.
With integral fleet and armoured support, Legions were there to get the job done quickly and efficiently. And on more than one occasion their mere presence (both physical and metaphorical) was enough to ensure compliance.
The Great Crusade could’ve been mounted in some capacity without the Legions. But they sure did speed things up, allowing it to simply steamroller its way from system to system, only gathering pace as more worlds were folded in and began to provide resources.
For anyone with any shred of idea about military numbers, taking almost any number in wh30k/40k fluff at it`s face value is recipe for a headache. But since it`s all made up anyway, none of that actually needs to make sense.
But yes, according to current fluff legions were the main assault force, using brute superhuman strength, speed and toughness to subdue any enemy. And if anyone was left standing, it was up to the rest of imperial army to clean-up.
That being said... WH fluff has a big problem with cranking everything past any resemblance of sense. Sure marine legions are superhumans with unimaginable power, etc... But so are the toys from dark age of technology harnessed by mechanicum (ordo reductor comes to mind), and endless hordes of super heavy tanks and auxiliaries fielded by solar auxilia, etc.
Ultimately though, this is a tabletop wargame, and it has to have some minimum of balancing to be playable, so even though every single marine might be nigh indestructible superhuman warrior, in game they have to be toned down, or other forces brought up in strength.
I'm hoping the new as yet to be named expansion has some more terrain rules.
In the same way the great slaughter added titan death as an expanded way to play, it would be nice to continue this trend as its a good way to have sort of more specific kinds of games without mucking up the core game. It'd be cool to see like a planet strike style expanded way of playing incorporating bunkers and defense lines, possibly something that can be purchased with points. As the game already trends toward top weighted games with a very certain outcome often by turn 2-3, it might work well for how LI plays.
Another possible spin-off would be for lower level skirmish games. Perhaps with some more guard rails on army construction, like indexing formations to point level, making all formations 0-1 ect. Would also be a great excuse to make scenarios/missions for smaller boards/point levels.
If it at least rounds out the units for both factions I can live with it, but if come the third book and both sides don't have super heavies/artillery/light armour, it really will feel like a dlc.
LI doesn't need more tanks, at least not before they make it possible to get hold of the ones they have already done.
after that the battles of North Africa and Kursk etc, 30k edition, would probably work quite well with the rules as they are presented - especially if the fortifications can be brought in and a nice blanket rule about moving units leaving vision obscuring dust clouds comes in
leopard wrote: LI doesn't need more tanks, at least not before they make it possible to get hold of the ones they have already done.
This. The first and biggest priority is making it possible to get ahold of the basic tanks without having to buy more starters. The second priority should be getting all of the other models that we currently have rules for into the game.
The third priority should be providing more supporting units to both armies in order to provide more flexibility in the types of units available.
leopard wrote: LI doesn't need more tanks, at least not before they make it possible to get hold of the ones they have already done.
Probably fair to assume that we're not going to see the Shadowsword any time soon. This article is just a marketing strategy to reassure customers that LI still has new models in the pipeline, so that when GW drops the next wave around April there will be more interest.
Yes I agree with Eumerin's comment - you've gotta get the basics down, people need to be able to buy Legion infantry and Leman Russ tanks. I think the subset of customers that use proxies or print their own are still a pretty small % compared to GWs overall customer base, so while the people really into Epic will do that, a lot of people will just give up waiting. I would say there has definitely been a drop in social media posts and forum activity based on Legions and you have to think stock availability is a part of that.
Ok that note I have seen Legion Infantry are now back in stock with GW online (UK) for the first time in several months, hopefully this means some stock will disseminate to local stores now as well.
Pacific wrote: people need to be able to buy Legion infantry and Leman Russ tanks
That's what I'm talking about though. Whenever that next wave of rulebook / Great Slaughter units finally arrives GW don't want people thinking LI is all done. They're trying to keep the hype train going by dangling another future wave of new toys, so customers retain interest in the range and still buy any Russes / Predators / Dire Wolves / etc that we've known about for months.
Regarding restocks, recently I have seen more launch item stock gradually more available both in GW and 3rd-party UK stores. Finally managed to get another Thunderhawk this month to help deliver my Leviathans, and along with the new Spartans my marine army is functional at last.
Probably in for another box of Marine Infantry this month, as I need a Troops unit for my Garrison, and I’d like to max out the non-Tactical only units in my Demi-Company.
If they could add Predators and Sicarans to that, and maybe the Bike box, that’d be fab.
Pacific wrote: I think that's actually one of the most interesting parts of the setting. You have marines in super heavies, strike aircraft, even loading artillery and garrison duties, things like that.
And helps differentiate from the 40k setting, where because they had shown they could not be trusted with all of the toys they had a lot of them taken away - and no gatherings of more than 1000 allowed!
Same, I think people forget that the main fighting force in the Heresy was the Marines, they were the "imperial guard" of the time, the ones that did the main slogging of warfare while everything else was in support of them.
[snip].
I think people "forget" that, because its patently ridiculous.
Adding all the legion peak strengths together (taken from 40k fandom site, with no accuracy check) is about 2.1 million marines. An Imperium of 1m worlds cannot be retaken with that number of marines.
The only way it works is if the auxiliary baseline human forces are at the same scale as the Guard, i.e. quadrillions of troops.
According to the 40k fandom site numbers, there were twice as many Remembrancers as there were Marines, and apparently over 4,000 primary expedition fleets, or an average of around 500 marines per fleet.
The orders of magnitude are just way off...
and yet its still true, the marines were the main fighting force of the Imperium of the time, everything else was support for the marines and the primarchs, marines ran the fleets, the imperial army "mostly" were seconded to marine forces, titans were pledged to legions and knight houses too.
500 marines and 10,000 imperial army support ran by marines in aid of making sure the marines won the fight. Just because the largest fighting force was the Imperial army does not mean they were the main fighting force, they were used for garrison duty, support elements, putting down rebellions etc. while the marines were given the lions share of resources, the best weapons and equipment etc. the stark change the Codex brought was to make the marines the support element while the imperial army (guard) became the main fighting force of the imperium, the fleets were detached from the marines and they only kept small flotillas of strike craft, they lost dedicated support elements of human auxilleries and armour such as legion Baneblades and artillery companies and were reduced in strength to 1000 marines not the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.
we literally have 50+ novels showing this is the case.
We have 50+ novels that focus on the marines because they're the main antagonists, but throughout those novels it's alluded to that there are plenty of non-marine Imperial Army forces going about spreading the Imperial Truth and compliance. It's just that we only really hear about them in the novels when they can't beat an enemy so the Marines (who will be the focus of said novel) show up to win a years long war in the space of a week.
As an example of what figures I would hope to see instead of yet more tanks...
When Space Marine (i.e. Epic 1st Edition) was released, the only Marine vehicles available were the ones that already existed in 40K - i.e. the Land Raider, Rhino, and Predator. Space Marine created new Marine vehicles to fill the missing battlefield roles. Quite possibly the two earliest new vehicles that had models released were the Whirlwind and the Vindicator. Both provide fire support for the marines - one direct, and the other indirect.
leopard wrote: LI doesn't need more tanks, at least not before they make it possible to get hold of the ones they have already done.
This. The first and biggest priority is making it possible to get ahold of the basic tanks without having to buy more starters.
Is there really a shortage? I have some Sicarans up on eBay and they've been there for probably 12 weeks with a very low number of views. The price is completely competitive and there's nothing functionally wrong with the listing. Sold some Russes and Predators there too and those took probably 6 weeks to move. Walked into my local GW the other day and the same box of Rhinos is sitting on the shelf like it was weeks ago.
Not doubting that some folks are having trouble getting stuff. But I just don't see this great demand out there. Is it more of an UK/EU thing?
leopard wrote: LI doesn't need more tanks, at least not before they make it possible to get hold of the ones they have already done.
This. The first and biggest priority is making it possible to get ahold of the basic tanks without having to buy more starters.
Is there really a shortage? I have some Sicarans up on eBay and they've been there for probably 12 weeks with a very low number of views. The price is completely competitive and there's nothing functionally wrong with the listing. Sold some Russes and Predators there too and those took probably 6 weeks to move. Walked into my local GW the other day and the same box of Rhinos is sitting on the shelf like it was weeks ago.
Not doubting that some folks are having trouble getting stuff. But I just don't see this great demand out there. Is it more of an UK/EU thing?
I suspect most people are like I am, and don't turn to E-Bay for our stuff.
And I never mentioned the Rhino, which isn't even in the starter. I'm explicitly talking about the stuff that's only available in the starter, despite the fact that these are supposed to be the basic "line" tanks for the two armies.
Now having said that, out of curiosity I hopped onto E-Bay just now to check availability. I did a search for "Leman Russ Legions Imperiales". The vast majority of what came up on the first page was 28mm, and not even for LI. The pair of sales that I spotted that were for LI Leman Russ sprues both were a single sprue for more than what GW is currently charging for the LI boxes (the add-on figure boxes, not the starter). Given that I expect two sprues in the box - as has been the pattern so far - the stuff that I found on the front page of E-Bay costs more than double what I would expect to eventually be paying for the tanks.
I agree on the e-bay point. The Sicarans and predators should have been released already, and better to get a brand new full box set from a retailer rather than trusting to e-bay. Also I personally prefer to be able to see the actual retail price point to enable a proper assessment of what pricing is reasonable.
@Gorgon - Not trying to imply that your pricing is unreasonable, but just I can't make that call at the moment, so prefer to wait.
Gorgon - as Eumerin says its more to do with specific sets that are core components if you want to collect a 'standard' force (in UK at least). My local store is showing 50+ Spartan tank sets but I haven't been able to get the Legion infantry since Christmas - out of stock everywhere and you have individual bits of sprues selling for silly money on eBay.
I'm guessing sprue components for those have gone into starter sets - fair enough as the starter set was OOS for some time and the game is new, you need to get more people playing. But it does mean that anyone with that starter set is struggling with subsequent purchases in the following months, unless they have turned to proxies or printers.
I can only speak for my neck of the woods but collecting a Marine army boils down to some Rhino and Krato kits. The other kits only seem to be available directly through GW themselves.
Honestly, I doubt we’ll see things like the stormlord. Forgeworld are sticking with a kind of classic tank pantheon that ignores a lot of GWs more modern designs. If you have an imperial armour book, expect that. For example, I’d expect a destroyer tank hunters and thunderer siege tanks to turn up at some point
zedmeister wrote: Honestly, I doubt we’ll see things like the stormlord. Forgeworld are sticking with a kind of classic tank pantheon that ignores a lot of GWs more modern designs. If you have an imperial armour book, expect that. For example, I’d expect a destroyer tank hunters and thunderer siege tanks to turn up at some point
Maybe, but Forgeworld did the Stormlord in resin before the main studio spun up plastic kits. It's possible FW will make the Stormlord as a resin hybrid kit for sale at the usual mark-up.
zedmeister wrote: Honestly, I doubt we’ll see things like the stormlord. Forgeworld are sticking with a kind of classic tank pantheon that ignores a lot of GWs more modern designs. If you have an imperial armour book, expect that. For example, I’d expect a destroyer tank hunters and thunderer siege tanks to turn up at some point
Maybe, but Forgeworld did the Stormlord in resin before the main studio spun up plastic kits. It's possible FW will make the Stormlord as a resin hybrid kit for sale at the usual mark-up.
Stormlord was a plastic only tank with the vulcan megabolter on the front. Maybe you're thinking of the stormsword?
As an aside, I've got my hands on some Great Slaughter cards and, interestingly, the Valdor Tank Hunter card's silhouette is of a Destroyer Tank Hunter...
Am I the only one who's lost when it comes to the names of the Imperial Guard super heavy tanks. Just use the words 'Shadow', 'Storm' or 'Bane' followed by 'Sword', 'Lord', 'Hammer', 'Blade', etc. the combinations are endless, but you kinda end up getting very confused
We don't have a baneblade hull with the warhound inferno blastgun yet...
Based on the naming convention, this would be the rear half of two different superheavies welded together in some horrendous chop-shop assault on the Omnissiah's bounty
Malika2 wrote: Am I the only one who's lost when it comes to the names of the Imperial Guard super heavy tanks. Just use the words 'Shadow', 'Storm' or 'Bane' followed by 'Sword', 'Lord', 'Hammer', 'Blade', etc. the combinations are endless, but you kinda end up getting very confused
I find that cheat sheet useless. It doesn't tell me anything, there's no commonality shared between the different terms. It's not like all the "Hammers" have fixed weapons or all the "Storms" have plasma weapons or something.
And the "Fellhammer" and "Fellsword" aren't even called that.
chaos0xomega wrote: I find that cheat sheet useless. It doesn't tell me anything, there's no commonality shared between the different terms. It's not like all the "Hammers" have fixed weapons or all the "Storms" have plasma weapons or something.
And the "Fellhammer" and "Fellsword" aren't even called that.
If the naming scheme was logical, there would be no need for the cheat sheet
they did the exact same thing with the Middle Earth terrain, sent him a load, which he did wonders with but by the time the video came out the stuff was like hens teeth to actually buy
That's a huge release wave for next week! Hopefully the quantities will be there this time (still waiting for a previous wave order that was supposed to be fully stocked, but in the end wasn't).
A bit weird to see that they didn't see fit to package both weapon sprues with the Warhounds. We can hope that both sprues will be available in direct order down the line, I really like to have all options available and magnetized for my Titans.
Ouch, this saturdays preorders and these ones dropping next week will be seriously eating into my monthly gaming budget..
LR Proteus and at least one drop pod kit for me are a must. Two drop pod kits would be even better though.. I'll see how much I can stretch other things..
Interestingly, almost nothing that went to preorder this week seem to be sold out even temporarily.. and there was a bunch of stuff announced. Has GW finally been able to tackle their POS supply issues?!
The continued lack of the starter set tanks is frustrating. But imo it wouldn't be terrible if the Stormhammers were one of the last things released from the current units that we have rules for. We already have one SA superheavy tank, and it can cover while we get the other necessary stuff out on the shelves.
SamusDrake wrote: Didn't expect the warhounds so soon. Probably the only kit I feel inclined to purchase for Titanicus at this time...
They've been pretty cheap second-hand from folks breaking up the starter set, as really only people who play AT need more than one pair. I'd definitely check ebay before paying £45+ or whatever GW want for them separately.
Interestingly, almost nothing that went to preorder this week seem to be sold out even temporarily.. and there was a bunch of stuff announced. Has GW finally been able to tackle their POS supply issues?!
I wonder if the plan for LI now is to steadily drop 4-6 kits each month and get caught up, rather than trying to fulfill stock for a massive wave of everything that's pending.
They've been pretty cheap second-hand from folks breaking up the starter set, as really only people who play AT need more than one pair. I'd definitely check ebay before paying £45+ or whatever GW want for them separately.
Yep I got the new ones from eBay for less than a regular warhound box goes for at a discounter.
xttz wrote: They've been pretty cheap second-hand from folks breaking up the starter set, as really only people who play AT need more than one pair. I'd definitely check ebay before paying £45+ or whatever GW want for them separately
I appreciate your advice.
To be honest I only get GW stuff through Wayland as their 20% discount, with practically free p&p, makes a lot of difference. That said I've had a run of bad luck, of late, with interesting products going for direct-only prices.
So, are these Warhounds the same as the ones in the starter set, or are there additional weapons for them? I know the starter set ones came with Ursus Claws and Shock Lances, but I don't remember them coming with missile pods and melta lances.
So, are these Warhounds the same as the ones in the starter set, or are there additional weapons for them? I know the starter set ones came with Ursus Claws and Shock Lances, but I don't remember them coming with missile pods and melta lances.
Same ones. The sprue has 2 rocket pods with 2 options each, 2 volkite, 2 shock lances, 2 ursus claws, and 2 melta lances
Prices. Bad news, the drop pods are as expensive as expected. Good news apparently the old Warhound variant, the Warbringer and Warmaster (not sure if only one version or they combined the normal and Iconoclast version into one box) are coming this week too even thought they weren't in the preorder article
On the bright side, you get to play with your 8 drop pods for 40€ next week, we who paid the same price for a 2000 point Epic Warpath army have to wait a year.
lord_blackfang wrote: On the bright side, you get to play with your 8 drop pods for 40€ next week, we who paid the same price for a 2000 point Epic Warpath army have to wait a year.
Matrindur wrote: Prices.
Bad news, the drop pods are as expensive as expected.
Good news apparently the Warbringer and Warmaster (not sure if only one version or they combined the normal and Iconoclast version into one box) are coming this week too even thought they weren't in the preorder article
I saw another version of this in Discord that listed the AT Manufactorum terrain available again as direct-only. It didn't have a price, but last time it was sold the box was £30 RRP.
that price for four drop pods is urine extraction, they may well ne nice models but if ever there was a game model thats both easy to proxy and easy to replace with a small card token its a drop pod.
at least they were self aware enough not to try four Rhino for £30
leopard wrote: that price for four drop pods is urine extraction, they may well ne nice models but if ever there was a game model thats both easy to proxy and easy to replace with a small card token its a drop pod.
at least they were self aware enough not to try four Rhino for £30
I see it as a good thing only in that it potentially limits how many pods we'll see in lists. They're already sortof the least justifiable in that they just land and are there. You could literally just pay the x points you do for each one to give a unit deep strike and call it a day honestly.
That would usually bother me, but in a game where infiltrate is unlimited, broken and allows you to charge turn 1 I feel like there are bigger fish to fry.
leopard wrote: that price for four drop pods is urine extraction, they may well ne nice models but if ever there was a game model thats both easy to proxy and easy to replace with a small card token its a drop pod.
I see them as no different to any different to GW terrain pieces that get premium prices. You're not really paying for a typical unit here, as you say they can be easily represented by a token (paint pots are probably quite close to the right dimensions!). You're mainly paying for something that looks better on the tabletop.
Personally I prefer to use Spartans & Thunderhawks as transports anyway, so won't be buying any. However if anyone is tempted to go all-out on drop pods despite the price, all I'd say is don't be shocked if they show up in a discounted boxed set sooner or later. Legion drop pod assault seems like a slam-dunk theme to use for xmas sets like these:
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'm going to be curious to see the sprue layout that only lets them fit 4 pods in a box. Geeze.
Base plate, five supports/fins, five doors, engine. Then five missile launchers, and five passenger brace things. Oh and a combi-bolter each.
Given these look to be fairly tall, it’s not that different to the Spartan kit.
Most of those bits are reasonably narrow though, would have figured they'd fit 3 on a sprue with an efficient layout.
I'm wondering if to make it hinged they had to add some parts twice whereas to be always open or always closed they could have done less parts. If they could have done always open and got 8 in a box it'll be disappointing.
In any case, I don't see me buying them at that price, I know the game is priced around 2 sprues per box, but for something like drop pods I would have hoped they could subsidise the cost a bit and make them cheaper, it's not like included a 3rd sprue would cost them 50% more.
Unless a community forms around LI to give me a reason to build up more, I don't see me investing much more in the game. Between the price, the lack of availability and what IMO is overly complex rules, GW are doing a great job at putting a damper on my interest.
I will probably grab the Arvus Lighters for AI though One of my favourite models for some reason.
adding a third sprue costs a minimal amount, but it then sets the expectation for other boxes to be the same - GW have decided two per box, thats your lot
IIRC someone said a while back the cost to GW of the box & instructions is higher than the cost to GW of the plastic
Depends in what context though doesn't it. I'm pretty sure the design work behind models costs more than the design work behind the instructions. Esp since you can't have the instructions without first developing the models anyway.
We all know we aren't playing for "raw material cost" when we buy something; we are paying for the shareholders; artists; photographers; shipping; delivery; white dwarf; marketing; videos; GW community website; apps; etc..... There's the whole load of GW itself that has to pay out ontop of money for investments in future expansion and profits.
The cost of printed materials are relatively higher since GW has to outsource that work to another company, while design and production of the plastic models is all done in house.
leopard wrote: adding a third sprue costs a minimal amount, but it then sets the expectation for other boxes to be the same - GW have decided two per box, thats your lot
IIRC someone said a while back the cost to GW of the box & instructions is higher than the cost to GW of the plastic
I doubt expectations are the issue tbh, I suspect most people would be inclined to compare by model count more than number of sprues. We know GW certainly doesn't mind putting less sprues in a box for the same price after all (Eldar Phoenix bombers in AI probably the most obvious and directly comparable to LI example... ). And other companies seem to have no issues - BF have boxes fairly consistently of five tanks (sometimes 4) for Team Yankee / Flames of War with pretty variable number of sprues but consistent price points around how many vehicles it builds rather than sprue count. E.g. the TY Leopard 1 kit makes 5 tanks with double the number of sprues that the Leo 2 box has, for instance at the same price point.
Overread wrote: Depends in what context though doesn't it. I'm pretty sure the design work behind models costs more than the design work behind the instructions. Esp since you can't have the instructions without first developing the models anyway.
We all know we aren't playing for "raw material cost" when we buy something; we are paying for the shareholders; artists; photographers; shipping; delivery; white dwarf; marketing; videos; GW community website; apps; etc..... There's the whole load of GW itself that has to pay out ontop of money for investments in future expansion and profits.
That's kinda missing the point here, the design costs are fixed and have no real bearing on the number of sprues in the box - what is important in that respect of development costs is how many boxes they sell to recoup the investment (and make profit). The point is the material costs are so low that the amount of plastic in the box only really affects profitability in as far as it influences how many boxes they shift.
Now obviously if they put too much in a box then that means people won't need to buy as many boxes and that would mean they won't sell enough of them. The drop pods IMO are pretty clearly the opposite issue, where the value proposition is so poor that will also lead to them selling less boxes. However I'm inclined to suspect that GW assume a pretty large portion of their customer is price insensitive to anything that comes with a GW label on it (plenty of evidence for that in this thread lol), whether they're sufficiently right about that on this occasion I guess we'll never know for sure (though I guess if we do see a big "discounted" box with LI drop pods in the future that might be an indication?).
LI has downscaled 28mm models without much additional work in the design, the artworks and general design is made for HH anyway so it is more of using something that is already there for an additional game
the majority of the work here is making the frame, which is said be software automated to a point (at least years back this was written as a big improvement in the process and why GW can make all those high detailed models because their software cutting it much better apart for the frame layout as anyone else can)
this work in addition to the initial costs of the mould are included in the cost per frame and it is not just the pure raw-material
yet ordering boxes from a 3rd party and have printed cardboard is expensive
those are external costs and printing and shipping costs a lot these days
4 frames per Box would cost less for GW, and if the margin of a product is low the packaging would have a big influence (hence why you get certain products only in large packs because packaging in smaller amounts would kill the profit)
But,
we are talking here about >50% margin total for a product, and with such high values selling 2 frames per box is much more profitable for GW than any savings in material or work with 4 frames per box
2 frames for 40€ because this is still a low enough value per box that people don't mind buying a box a month
making it 3 frames for 58€ or 4 frames for 75€ and it would look different and being recognised as more expensive (even if you need the 4 frames anyway, buying a single box once for 75€ is different than buying 2 boxes weeks appart for 40€)
Overread wrote: Depends in what context though doesn't it. I'm pretty sure the design work behind models costs more than the design work behind the instructions. Esp since you can't have the instructions without first developing the models anyway.
We all know we aren't playing for "raw material cost" when we buy something; we are paying for the shareholders; artists; photographers; shipping; delivery; white dwarf; marketing; videos; GW community website; apps; etc..... There's the whole load of GW itself that has to pay out ontop of money for investments in future expansion and profits.
That is true.
But compare what you get from a box of Drop pods (4), and a box of Cadian Infantry (10).
I'm of the mind that the entire LI game doesnt make sense, unless you buy most of your stuff from a discounter and take your time with the purchases. The kits will take a few years to release anyways, buying a few kits now and then, instead of splurging on a massive shopping spree all at once. Like, if you collect your army now, you'll just end up having rubbish like too many predators and so on..
And speaking of the rules, my mind is first set on collecting a core force, and then playing with them using any edition I happen to fancy. For someone like me, the biggest appeal in LI are the models themselves.
I'd reckon three boxes of pods already gets you enough to start with. I'll be adding them one kit per month, or something like that. Just hope they can be magnetized so I can convert basic pods to deathstrorms and vice versa..
Does anyone happen to know how many infantry stands, Rhinos and Land Raiders came with the original 1st edition Space Marine? Per side (ie the total amount divided by two)? That's my first goalpost for the collection..
But compare what you get from a box of Drop pods (4), and a box of Cadian Infantry (10).
Both same price. It is ridiculous.
Opportunity cost is kinda the issue though. Why would GWwant to sell a larger box of 6-8 drop pods at a similar price to a box of Cadians, when the former will consume twice as much production time, twice as much packaging & warehouse space, and twice as much shipping capacity? Or alternatively they can use those same resources to sell two boxes of Cadians, LI Basilisks, Tau guys, etc?
It's clear that enough people were willing to buy plastic civitas terrain & tiles with a similar level of 'value' that I'm sure GW are confident of selling drop pod as boxes of 4.
kodos wrote: But,
we are talking here about >50% margin total for a product, and with such high values selling 2 frames per box is much more profitable for GW than any savings in material or work with 4 frames per box
Well, I'm not buying it, so their profit from me went from something to zero If they have 60% profit margin, and they drop to 55% profit margin for adding an extra sprue their profit from a box would have gone from $30 to $27.50, but now it's gone from $30 to $0
We all know GW are taking the piss with their prices, but there's taking the piss and then there's taking the piss.
Of course if GW are still selling out then what do they care if I don't buy it. But I noted that the last wave of kits from GW didn't sell out except for the astartes support options (even at discounters that normally sell out immediately), so perhaps interest is waning.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Well, I'm not buying it, so their profit from me went from something to zero If they have 60% profit margin, and they drop to 55% profit margin for adding an extra sprue their profit from a box would have gone from $30 to $27.50, but now it's gone from $30 to $0
A factor that is often disregarded and can have cascading effects as prices driving some players away might result in others dropping the game as well because they have no one to play with, even if they themselves were willing to stomach the cost.
From what I've seen in the UK, both the marine kits sold out pretty quickly and neither have returned yet even on the official website. The solar support & valdor appear to have been delivered in equal quantities and definitely weren't as popular as marines. Goblin Gaming has already increased the discount on those two to clear overstock, and I expect others to do the same before the end of the year.
For this wave it wouldn't shock me to see all the marine kits selling out quickly again, possibly with the basilisks too as there's a good reason to pick up multiples this time. That should leave the Arvus boxes on shelves for a while.
kodos wrote: But,
we are talking here about >50% margin total for a product, and with such high values selling 2 frames per box is much more profitable for GW than any savings in material or work with 4 frames per box
Well, I'm not buying it, so their profit from me went from something to zero If they have 60% profit margin, and they drop to 55% profit margin for adding an extra sprue their profit from a box would have gone from $30 to $27.50, but now it's gone from $30 to $0
We all know GW are taking the piss with their prices, but there's taking the piss and then there's taking the piss.
Of course if GW are still selling out then what do they care if I don't buy it. But I noted that the last wave of kits from GW didn't sell out except for the astartes support options (even at discounters that normally sell out immediately), so perhaps interest is waning.
Yeah as long as they sell everything the strategy of making more profit is not give better value the get more costumers or grow the community but increase the profit margin
You not buying at that price but others will is still more profit for GW than decreasing prices to sell stock they don't have
GW wants a fan-club that buys no matter what and allows "pirates" to exist because games need a minimum amount of people to make it work
GWs marketing and prices are the combined effects of seasonal collectable games, free to play multiplayer games, and mobile app games with sunken costs
You need a certain amount of people who play (or promote to collect) to get the game going (3D printers + Russian archives), keeping people switching in and out with seasons to get get fresh money in and to get excitement over doing the same thing again (Editions)
Than you create fictional value and let people impulse buy "discounts" that are none and because people already invested a huge amount they keep buying to justify previous investments
A single person not buying because a single box is too expensive simply means that person is not part of the target group anyway and can be ignored
Yet all this leads to the problem that small changes can have big effects, and there won't be a slow decrease over time but rather a collapse over night because if the people who play for "free" are gone because the game is not worth playing even for free, the others will be gone as well
(A reason why we see this "fight" on the internet about rules quality and how bad rules are fun for casuals, because if word goes round that a game is not worth the time, the people who spend a lot of money for "nothing" instead of having the promised value on the shelf crash with reality)
(A reason why we see this "fight" on the internet about rules quality and how bad rules are fun for casuals, because if word goes round that a game is not worth the time, the people who spend a lot of money for "nothing" instead of having the promised value on the shelf crash with reality)
Omg you nailed it!! I have already seen this in one of the LI whatsapp groups I'm in. The people who spent craploads of money in the game justifying bad rules and/or praising an extremely poor system.
tauist wrote: I'm of the mind that the entire LI game doesnt make sense, unless you buy most of your stuff from a discounter and take your time with the purchases. The kits will take a few years to release anyways, buying a few kits now and then, instead of splurging on a massive shopping spree all at once. Like, if you collect your army now, you'll just end up having rubbish like too many predators and so on..
And speaking of the rules, my mind is first set on collecting a core force, and then playing with them using any edition I happen to fancy. For someone like me, the biggest appeal in LI are the models themselves.
I'd reckon three boxes of pods already gets you enough to start with. I'll be adding them one kit per month, or something like that. Just hope they can be magnetized so I can convert basic pods to deathstrorms and vice versa..
Does anyone happen to know how many infantry stands, Rhinos and Land Raiders came with the original 1st edition Space Marine? Per side (ie the total amount divided by two)? That's my first goalpost for the collection..
1st edition had two forces, each with 8 land raiders, 16 rhinos and 32 infantry stands
kodos wrote: But,
we are talking here about >50% margin total for a product, and with such high values selling 2 frames per box is much more profitable for GW than any savings in material or work with 4 frames per box
Well, I'm not buying it, so their profit from me went from something to zero If they have 60% profit margin, and they drop to 55% profit margin for adding an extra sprue their profit from a box would have gone from $30 to $27.50, but now it's gone from $30 to $0
We all know GW are taking the piss with their prices, but there's taking the piss and then there's taking the piss.
Yes I am in the same boat. I've bought a fair amount of official minis for this game (I want it to succeed, and stuff like the infantry is not a tough purchase as they are lovely minies)- I haven't gone to printers or proxy except in small minority of cases. But, yes the price for the drop pods are a piss take, and I think most people recognise it as that looking at social media. So I have got hold of an alternative for those.
tauist wrote: I'm of the mind that the entire LI game doesnt make sense, unless you buy most of your stuff from a discounter and take your time with the purchases. The kits will take a few years to release anyways, buying a few kits now and then, instead of splurging on a massive shopping spree all at once. Like, if you collect your army now, you'll just end up having rubbish like too many predators and so on..
And speaking of the rules, my mind is first set on collecting a core force, and then playing with them using any edition I happen to fancy. For someone like me, the biggest appeal in LI are the models themselves.
I'd reckon three boxes of pods already gets you enough to start with. I'll be adding them one kit per month, or something like that. Just hope they can be magnetized so I can convert basic pods to deathstrorms and vice versa..
Does anyone happen to know how many infantry stands, Rhinos and Land Raiders came with the original 1st edition Space Marine? Per side (ie the total amount divided by two)? That's my first goalpost for the collection..
1st edition had two forces, each with 8 land raiders, 16 rhinos and 32 infantry stands
Awesome, much obliged! Do you happen to know how the infantry stands were segmented (IIRC different coloured flags denoted TAC/DEV/ASSAULT ?) within those 32 stands?
the set I had was all black bases, however the book noted it was 8 stands for a tactical unit (four tactical & four support) then four for each of devastator and assault (later became six stand units).
the first run had different colour bases, I think it was pretty much eight in each of four colours for each army
leopard wrote: the set I had was all black bases, however the book noted it was 8 stands for a tactical unit (four tactical & four support) then four for each of devastator and assault (later became six stand units).
the first run had different colour bases, I think it was pretty much eight in each of four colours for each army
sweet, so I'd need 4 stands of TACs, 4 stands of Support, 4 Assault, 4 Dev?
If that's correct, I should be good just by adding one more Astartes infantry kit to the pile..
I was skimming through a 1st edition rulebook last night, excited to jump back in! I'm a sucker for old rulesets with modern minis
leopard wrote: the set I had was all black bases, however the book noted it was 8 stands for a tactical unit (four tactical & four support) then four for each of devastator and assault (later became six stand units).
the first run had different colour bases, I think it was pretty much eight in each of four colours for each army
sweet, so I'd need 4 stands of TACs, 4 stands of Support, 4 Assault, 4 Dev?
If that's correct, I should be good just by adding one more Astartes infantry kit to the pile..
I was skimming through a 1st edition rulebook last night, excited to jump back in! I'm a sucker for old rulesets with modern minis
1st is actually a decent game, takes a while to play with the detail but its good as you don't need massive forces for a good game
if you can find it "Codex: Titanicus" is worth grabbing as it brings in the orks, Eldar and IIRC Imperial Guard as well as titans
harder to get hold of are all the 1st edition army builders as they were only ever in white dwarf before 2nd came along and changed it all
issues are very concerning for the longevity of this game
Anyone else in the US received their pre-order of cards and book from 
