Prestor Jon wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Have you guys seen what's happening to old Warhammer BL novel prices? It seems like the more recent Time of Legends books are going for stupid high prices on Amazon, B and N, and ABE. Now I have to choose between panic buying Bretonnians or books.

I would buy the books if you want them. I picked up more Brets than I should have this past year so I can send some knights and bowmen your way if you need some.

Thank you for the generous offer. I might take you up on that for the knights, especially pegasus knights. I've got enough bowmen already. Going to get some novels now and see if I ever get around to converting those grail knights I'd planned...later.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 gobskrag 'eadbasha wrote:

Clanan wrote:

 Ankhalagon wrote:
What new customers? Here are none. Killing of WFB and replaceing it with a bad joke. Making a gigantic mess out of 40k. Crushing the fantasy-range.
Well done, GW!

False. I'm a new customer because of AoS. (Yay anecdata!). I'm excited that GW is cleaning house and I can't wait to see what come's next. Although I can certainly understand the sadness in seeing one's favorite stuff get retired. But I come from video games, where everything is retired within months or a few years.

You're not the only one. I've been playing Fantasy for a while now and a friend of mine who really liked the models wouldn't play due to the system. Thanks to AoS, he bought and plays with those models now. As a Tomb King player, I'm sad to see things go, but I understand the business reasoning behind it. I actually like Age of Sigmar, but definitely not for the reasons I like 6th and 8th.

Hastings over on Warseer, the most reliable Fantasy rumourmonger we had save perhaps Harry, has stated categorically that the folk he knows at GWHQ(where he got all his accurate rumours previously, one must assume) have told him AoS has been a colossal flop, so the "business reasoning" perhaps wasn't as flawless as GW assumed.

And no, the smug, Cheshire Cat-like grin that's been plastered across my face since I read that post yesterday doesn't have anything to do with that news, how dare anyone make such a scurrilous suggestion

Yeah, I'm sure the guy who hates AoS with the fury of a thousand suns would NEVER exaggerate negative news about the game...

It might colour his words a bit but frankly with the reputation that guy has I really don't think he'd make it up entirely. He might sound a bit vindictive but there's going to be something to that for sure.

I would be quite surprised if AoS was a total failure. There are plenty of enthusiastic users on DakkaDakka (plenty of hatters too, of course...) but people always argue whether DakkaDakka is representative of the wider wargamer population or not.

I think the schools outreach programme is key for the success of AoS. That seems to have gone a bit quiet. I don't follow it, so that's one reason. GW's website is just not structured for supporting that kind of initiative, though. (Maybe it's going like Gangbusters but no-one knows because GW don't have a way to tell people about it.)

I've always seen AoS as being a slow building programme that GW will devote a couple of years to before taking a decision on its continuation.

There can be no doubt that sales of AOS stuff have not met expectations. The real question is just how far below expectations are they and is there anything GW can do to turn things around? This summer's board game seems like a good opportunity. I wonder what the plans are at hq.
I personally hope that GW do a second edition with a points system, but I am broadly in favour of the simplification of the rules.
I do not think GW can simply rewind the end times clock.

A possibility that may garner a lot of positive attention from the old guard is making a new game set during the war of the beard. They could keep AOS as a hero centric skirmish game if they wished, and not have to retcon their fluff. The problem is, that making a new game takes a LONG time. If they started work on it now, we would not hear anything for about 3 years.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I dont see a problem [with the torso of the speardude]

Unless it's just the angle, his torso looks deformed and impossibly wide. Look under his beard to the left side of the picture (his right) next to the orc skull.

And that's without going into his muscles being more impossibly blown up than if the Ultimate Warrior ate both Hulk Hogan and Arnold Swarzenegger and washed them down with a pint of pure steroids.

lel, that description

Like in that tale about little red something, when sh asks the wolf why its ears are so big... "Gorechosen, gorechosen, by are your muscles so big?" "So little Timmies can paint them easily". But I still like that model, kinda reminds me of Rexor from Conan.

Back on topic, dayum, that Malekith looks cheap compared to all those new things. While it's sad to see them Knights go, no hard feelings about other Empire/Elf models.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


Hastings over on Warseer, the most reliable Fantasy rumourmonger we had save perhaps Harry, has stated categorically that the folk he knows at GWHQ(where he got all his accurate rumours previously, one must assume) have told him AoS has been a colossal flop, so the "business reasoning" perhaps wasn't as flawless as GW assumed.

And no, the smug, Cheshire Cat-like grin that's been plastered across my face since I read that post yesterday doesn't have anything to do with that news, how dare anyone make such a scurrilous suggestion

Before you die of smug, it's important to remember that AoS flopping doesn't mean the return of the Fantasy game we know and love, it just means GW will abandon that line altogether. Not suddenly, of course, but more like how they've steadily abandoned the Hobbit. Technically they still support the Hobbit, but they don't sell it in-store anymore and they don't keep any of the rulebooks out for use.

So it's not something to celebrate/feel smug over - GW took a huge risk (and frankly an ill-advised one) and it failed, so they'll likely cut their losses and by this time in three years only 40k will be properly supported, and if that doesn't make you glum I don't know what will.

I went through all the stages of grief for WHFB a while ago, I know it's not coming back for at least a decade, if ever - the absolute best-case scenario is they give us a boxed game based on Mordheim in a couple of years, and even that is highly unlikely.

So now it's just pure "told ya so!" sentiment.

I find it odd that though many say AoS is doing bad it's facebook has over 4,000 likes.

Compare that to 9th age which is extremely popular and has a little under 7,000 members on it's forum.

AoS might just beat the odds afterall.

I speculate Warhammer Fantasy will return.

As WARMASTER, by Special Games.

Baron Klatz wrote:
I find it odd that though many say AoS is doing bad it's facebook has over 4,000 likes.

Compare that to 9th age which is extremely popular and has a little under 7,000 members on it's forum.

AoS might just beat the odds afterall.

Though facebook likes aren't everything... when you consider the aforementioned AoS page is for a mainline, official game by GW and the other is a fanmade legacy system with less exposure than AoS would have... yeah that's pretty bad if 9th Age has almost double the numbers.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
I find it odd that though many say AoS is doing bad it's facebook has over 4,000 likes.

Compare that to 9th age which is extremely popular and has a little under 7,000 members on it's forum.

AoS might just beat the odds afterall.

Though facebook likes aren't everything... when you consider the aforementioned AoS page is for a mainline, official game by GW and the other is a fanmade legacy system with less exposure than AoS would have... yeah that's pretty bad if 9th Age has almost double the numbers.

There could be a 'Bradley effect' in there somewhere I suppose (who would want to be seen publicly supporting AoS?) but yes, having only roughly half the facebook presence of the unofficial fan-made replacement of the old game is not exactly a point of strength for AoS.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 gobskrag 'eadbasha wrote:

Clanan wrote:

 Ankhalagon wrote:
What new customers? Here are none. Killing of WFB and replaceing it with a bad joke. Making a gigantic mess out of 40k. Crushing the fantasy-range.
Well done, GW!

False. I'm a new customer because of AoS. (Yay anecdata!). I'm excited that GW is cleaning house and I can't wait to see what come's next. Although I can certainly understand the sadness in seeing one's favorite stuff get retired. But I come from video games, where everything is retired within months or a few years.

You're not the only one. I've been playing Fantasy for a while now and a friend of mine who really liked the models wouldn't play due to the system. Thanks to AoS, he bought and plays with those models now. As a Tomb King player, I'm sad to see things go, but I understand the business reasoning behind it. I actually like Age of Sigmar, but definitely not for the reasons I like 6th and 8th.

Hastings over on Warseer, the most reliable Fantasy rumourmonger we had save perhaps Harry, has stated categorically that the folk he knows at GWHQ(where he got all his accurate rumours previously, one must assume) have told him AoS has been a colossal flop, so the "business reasoning" perhaps wasn't as flawless as GW assumed.

And no, the smug, Cheshire Cat-like grin that's been plastered across my face since I read that post yesterday doesn't have anything to do with that news, how dare anyone make such a scurrilous suggestion

While the writing was on the wall, it really made my day to see an official confirmation ( well, pretty much) that this abortion of a game is a fiasco


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
I find it odd that though many say AoS is doing bad it's facebook has over 4,000 likes.

Compare that to 9th age which is extremely popular and has a little under 7,000 members on it's forum.

AoS might just beat the odds afterall.

Though facebook likes aren't everything... when you consider the aforementioned AoS page is for a mainline, official game by GW and the other is a fanmade legacy system with less exposure than AoS would have... yeah that's pretty bad if 9th Age has almost double the numbers.

Lol, was exactly thinking the same thing. I wonder on which world an unofficial fan made game having almost twice as much like as the official as AOS means that it is not doing so bad


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the kits, i think that the only ones that will be missed are the bretonnians and the free company (not to mention the three newest tk kits, which were excellent).

 Zywus wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
I find it odd that though many say AoS is doing bad it's facebook has over 4,000 likes.

Compare that to 9th age which is extremely popular and has a little under 7,000 members on it's forum.

AoS might just beat the odds afterall.

Though facebook likes aren't everything... when you consider the aforementioned AoS page is for a mainline, official game by GW and the other is a fanmade legacy system with less exposure than AoS would have... yeah that's pretty bad if 9th Age has almost double the numbers.

There could be a 'Bradley effect' in there somewhere I suppose (who would want to be seen publicly supporting AoS?) but yes, having only roughly half the facebook presence of the unofficial fan-made replacement of the old game is not exactly a point of strength for AoS.

Especially when you consider 9th age is only 1 of several options for people sticking to rank-and-file style Warhammer, lots of people have gone to KoW, sticking with 8th, going back to previous editions or trying something else.

In my observation 9th age was actually less popular than KoW and older WHFB editions anyway.

RazorEdge wrote:
I speculate Warhammer Fantasy will return.

As WARMASTER, by Special Games.

Hell, I'd go for that! I never got into Warmaster back then, kind of wish I had. I don't have the stamina/time to paint multiple WHFB armies just to see a game played at my house. It's why I'm doing KoW at 15mm, and even then with reduced unit numbers). I played every Specialist game but Warmaster and Mordheim.

So to rekindle interest in AoS maybe they could do an AoS: End Times.

Then they could replace it with Age of Big Sigmar which is lIke Age of Sigmar but at a slightly larger scale.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
I speculate Warhammer Fantasy will return.

As WARMASTER, by Special Games.

Hell, I'd go for that! I never got into Warmaster back then, kind of wish I had. I don't have the stamina/time to paint multiple WHFB armies just to see a game played at my house. It's why I'm doing KoW at 15mm, and even then with reduced unit numbers). I played every Specialist game but Warmaster and Mordheim.

Bringing back Warmaster would be a smart move. That's the game to offer the people who get introduced to the game world by the upcoming Total War: Warhammer video game.

Damn. I was planning on buying some High Elf stuff. Oh well, I suppose.

 Verviedi wrote:
Damn. I was planning on buying some High Elf stuff. Oh well, I suppose.

Nothing to stop you from doing so. "High Elves" will still be around in .PDF form, and have been broken into 5 subfactions.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nothing to stop you from doing so. "High Elves" will still be around in .PDF form, and have been broken into 5 subfactions.

I think he nearly everything went poof

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Damn. I was planning on buying some High Elf stuff. Oh well, I suppose.

Nothing to stop you from doing so.

Eh, I'd say the models not being sold anymore is pretty clearly something stopping you from buying them.
Regardless of them having rules in PDF form or not.

Some, even most (?) High elf models might still be available, but not necessarily the ones Verviedi were planning to buy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I note the TombKings PDF is listed as a last chance to buy.

How long will the rules for other discontinued models be available to download?

How long after GW stops hosting the files will people accept other players using their old printouts?

"No models/armies invalidated", indeed.

No loss, rubbish minis most of it.

I wouldn't call the Empire Knights or especially the Brettonian Green Knight "rubbish".

Or the glade riders. By the way of the 92 items that went last chance to buy yesterday, only 13 are still available in the Uk store.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I wouldn't call the Empire Knights or especially the Brettonian Green Knight "rubbish".

Old rubbish, then. Sigmarines are much better sculpts

At first I thought "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! THE DWARFS ARE GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" but then I realized they still have the core units. The dwarfs aren't going to be nerfed, right?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


Hastings over on Warseer, the most reliable Fantasy rumourmonger we had save perhaps Harry, has stated categorically that the folk he knows at GWHQ(where he got all his accurate rumours previously, one must assume) have told him AoS has been a colossal flop, so the "business reasoning" perhaps wasn't as flawless as GW assumed.

And no, the smug, Cheshire Cat-like grin that's been plastered across my face since I read that post yesterday doesn't have anything to do with that news, how dare anyone make such a scurrilous suggestion

Before you die of smug, it's important to remember that AoS flopping doesn't mean the return of the Fantasy game we know and love, it just means GW will abandon that line altogether. Not suddenly, of course, but more like how they've steadily abandoned the Hobbit. Technically they still support the Hobbit, but they don't sell it in-store anymore and they don't keep any of the rulebooks out for use.

So it's not something to celebrate/feel smug over - GW took a huge risk (and frankly an ill-advised one) and it failed, so they'll likely cut their losses and by this time in three years only 40k will be properly supported, and if that doesn't make you glum I don't know what will.

In all honesty if GW didn't incist on the new age of sigmar units being at such a ridiculously high price, I would of bought SOME of the new plastic kits for use in other games and/or 40k conversions. They are sitting uncomfortably close to FW prices TBH.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I wouldn't call the Empire Knights or especially the Brettonian Green Knight "rubbish".

Old rubbish, then. Sigmarines are much better sculpts

I take it this is a wind up right?

This last chance to buy section does work. I was happily able to get the Dwarf King on Shieldbearers and the Dwarf Thane BSB to help finish the characters I need for my Throng.

I will always be sad to see the lines get so thinned out though. I really don't like the new model's aesthetic after seeing them in person and I still lament the loss of WHFB.

@KaptainBadrukk, the dwarfs are fine. The current ones have become dispossessed Duardin. There's a future faction of Steamhead Duardin coming out as well.

As for that facebook thing, the facebook is new while the 9th age site has been around for months and has collected alot of fans wanting rank-and-file, the old fluff or just another game to play. (I'm on the site and would like to play both games.)

The point was that AoS is continuing to grow and draw in new fans while 9th(or KoW) already took a large chunk of the fans from 8th.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
I speculate Warhammer Fantasy will return.

As WARMASTER, by Special Games.

Hell, I'd go for that! I never got into Warmaster back then, kind of wish I had. I don't have the stamina/time to paint multiple WHFB armies just to see a game played at my house. It's why I'm doing KoW at 15mm, and even then with reduced unit numbers). I played every Specialist game but Warmaster and Mordheim.

Bringing back Warmaster would be a smart move. That's the game to offer the people who get introduced to the game world by the upcoming Total War: Warhammer video game.

Warmaster is awesome. Use the rules for 28mm or keep playing at 15mm. It's how Tomb Kings should have been in 8th Ed.

If the number of Facebook likes mattered, we'd have cured all those Rwandan kids' cancers already.

RazorEdge wrote:
I speculate Warhammer Fantasy will return.

As WARMASTER, by Special Games.

That would be aces since those rules were far better than any editions of WFB.
.
While I figure that a lot of what's leaving is simply to be replaced with repackaged models I find myself surprisingly sad about the loss of the Brettonians (who I figure are going the way of the Tomb Kings since they just don't really fit the whole AOS thing.)
What I find most frustrating is that I genuinely think that Age of Sigmar is a better rules system that more suits the style of game that I enjoy while the rich background of the the Old World was what drew me in to begin with (which, let's face it, has been actively eroded for well over a decade as GW shifted strongly away from the sort of amoral EVERYONE'S AWFUL TO SOME DEGREE AND ALSO DIRTY worldview into a more cliched and generic GOOD VS. EVIL sort of thing.)

Baron Klatz wrote:
As for that facebook thing, the facebook is new while the 9th age site has been around for months and has collected alot of fans wanting rank-and-file, the old fluff or just another game to play. (I'm on the site and would like to play both games.)

The point was that AoS is continuing to grow and draw in new fans while 9th(or KoW) already took a large chunk of the fans from 8th.

I'm not so sure it does. The facebook numbers will grow for a while since the page is new. It'll stall soon enough, just like the 9th age facebook page after it's launch.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If the number of Facebook likes mattered, we'd have cured all those Rwandan kids' cancers already.

Meh, fair enough.

I would absolutely love a Warmaster game as well.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If the number of Facebook likes mattered, we'd have cured all those Rwandan kids' cancers already.

I laughed! Exalted

We're getting a bit far afield here lads - back to discussing "Last Chance to Buy" items in this thread, and save the general discussion for Dakka Discussions or other boards.

Thanks all!

Baron Klatz wrote:
@KaptainBadrukk, the dwarfs are fine. The current ones have become dispossessed Duardin. There's a future faction of Steamhead Duardin coming out as well.

As for that facebook thing, the facebook is new while the 9th age site has been around for months and has collected alot of fans wanting rank-and-file, the old fluff or just another game to play. (I'm on the site and would like to play both games.)

The point was that AoS is continuing to grow and draw in new fans while 9th(or KoW) already took a large chunk of the fans from 8th.

Thanks the Gods!

Speaking for myself, I am hugely pleased that lots of models I didn't want to have to buy and wasn't being forced to are no longer compulsory to buy.

But I am very disappointed that the Sigmarines, which I regard as super-bland crap, are still on the compulsory purchase list.

I've already not bought several kits of these I was forced to buy, and I was really hoping they would be deleted so I would no long be forced to buy figures I find so dull, uninteresting, colourless and characterless.

Wow, almost everything that became a Last Chancer at the start of the weekend has already sold out.

Could it almost suggest there was demand for generic fantasy humans, elves and dwarves!?

 Bottle wrote:
Wow, almost everything that became a Last Chancer at the start of the weekend has already sold out.

Could it almost suggest there was demand for generic fantasy humans, elves and dwarves!?

Probably a lot of EBay scalpers in there as well...

GW has a great catalogue of fantasy plastics. Lots of it was stuff that was on my "someday" list.

Indeed, the same with me and Bretonnians.

Just goes to show, no time like the present.

Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

 Bottle wrote:
Wow, almost everything that became a Last Chancer at the start of the weekend has already sold out.

Could it almost suggest there was demand for generic fantasy humans, elves and dwarves!?

Not necessarily. Couple years back, the owner of one of my local FLGS was in Memphis and was given a tour of the US facilities. One item he noted, the stuff that was direct only, they only had 2 - 3 in stock in the US warehouse. That is how low demand was for those items. Most of these items that were cut were direct only for a while now, so there were probably not more than a dozen or so of each item world wide in stock at GW.

@Fenrir & Shadow Captain, very true but for future GW approved Bretonnians I'm going to have to kitbash.

Which is not a bad thing really, lots more variety and creativity.

 silent25 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Wow, almost everything that became a Last Chancer at the start of the weekend has already sold out.

Could it almost suggest there was demand for generic fantasy humans, elves and dwarves!?

Not necessarily. Couple years back, the owner of one of my local FLGS was in Memphis and was given a tour of the US facilities. One item he noted, the stuff that was direct only, they only had 2 - 3 in stock in the US warehouse. That is how low demand was for those items. Most of these items that were cut were direct only for a while now, so there were probably not more than a dozen or so of each item world wide in stock at GW.

That is interesting. It would certainly explain how fast things have been selling out. I can't believe there are more than half a dozen people in the world who would buy those hideous treekin models. The plastic sets would presumably have a larger inventory which is why they have been hanging around a bit longer.

I was actually tempted to start a lot of those armies.

This made my wallet and my bucket list so happy. On the plus side I am SOO glad I got the last of my bretonnia fix last year.

Baron Klatz wrote:
@Fenrir & Shadow Captain, very true but for future GW approved Bretonnians I'm going to have to kitbash.

Which is not a bad thing really, lots more variety and creativity.

GW approved? Meaningless concept

Not if you want to be in their official tourneys or at least post on their facebook.

That and I really just don't like most of the other models out there but that's a personal thing.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Not if you want to be in their official tourneys or at least post on their facebook.

That's some harsh drawbacks right there

Non-existent tournament and posting on facebook page where you'll get far less viewers than having a plog on Dakka. Not something you'd want to miss, eh.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Not if you want to be in their official tourneys or at least post on their facebook.

That and I really just don't like most of the other models out there but that's a personal thing.

What tournaments? Is GW even doing tournaments for Age of Sigmar? Doesn't seem like a game that would work for a tournament, theres too much house ruling needed on the part of the organisers. They have to basically fix the game.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

Answer = don't buy the poorly scaled GW stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Not if you want to be in their official tourneys or at least post on their facebook.

Oh man, seriously?? I can't do that? World. Ended.

Haha, just my personal preference for GW's models then I suppose.

A lot of their models sell poorly now, so low inventory, and they make the decision to dump them.

But...lets look at factors that affect other games or products:

-Advertising. NONE. Unless you go to the GW website, you don't know they exist.

-Not in stores. Neither their own, or FLGS.

-FLGS will not be flogging these. We have to order 100.00 in product from the website, so i can't just order the model you need. Plus, crappy discount.

-No game. They killed the game these go to. Models with less use have less sales.

So, a bit of a no brainer, once they started down the path of killing WFB, of course they get less and less demand for models and then cancel them entirely. It's really amazing though how other companies can keep models in print for years and turn a profit on them. GW somehow has forgotten how to do that. The accountants trim it all away until no game is left, and wonder why we don't buy.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

Answer = don't buy the poorly scaled GW stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Not if you want to be in their official tourneys or at least post on their facebook.

Oh man, seriously?? I can't do that? World. Ended.

GW apologists literally can rationalize everything.

Gw promises not to kill of armies. 2 armies are basically now dead due to no figures. having rules for something and selling of the only figures for it effectively killed those two armies. Im honestly surprised sisters are not in the sell of period yet.

and also not sure beastmen will stay either.

Oh but use x y or z. And free rules for age of blandmar... Pass thanks its not WFB its awful just awful. like those new creme eggs.

I only hope GW does Bretonians for Mordhiem. but knowing GW it will just be stomcasts again.

 Bottle wrote:
Wow, almost everything that became a Last Chancer at the start of the weekend has already sold out.

Could it almost suggest there was demand for generic fantasy humans, elves and dwarves!?

A lot of it was sold out before it even moved to Last Chance To Buy.

That's one of the things I hate about the LCTB fiasco the most: it wasn't even really a chance for many of the items. If they had warned us while they still had some stock left, slowly phasing the models out over a couple months, it would have given a lot of us a chance to buy that last box of wild riders or save up for Valten. Instead, we only find out the items are discontinued when they are already gone, and we are screwed if we wanted to finish off an army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For that matter, are there any decently heroic scale plastic knights on the market that will look good with Bretonnians heads on them?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

For that matter, are there any decently heroic scale plastic knights on the market that will look good with Bretonnians heads on them?

In my experience, the bretonnian heads (especially commoners) fit rather well on most 28mm historicals. The GW 'heroic bulkyness' is mostly a problem when trying to mix in entire models of them.

This guy has a lot of good comparasions:

http://psychosispc-themadhouseworkshop.blogspot.se/2012/03/fireforge-games-teutonic-knights-kit.html


http://psychosispc-themadhouseworkshop.blogspot.se/2011/12/gripping-beast-plastic-viking-hirdmen.html

The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

better scrap space marines then. GW have basically just edited the same kit for at least that long.

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

GW redesigned Necrons and they flew off the shelves. GW redesigned Dark Eldar and they flew off the shelves. GW even did a minor redesign to Tau and they're still flying off the shelves. I'm firmly of the mindset that had GW put the same effort into Fantasy they would have sold more than they did.

All new in box...

Edited by RiTides - Please don't make posts only linking to Ebay auctions in News & Rumors

Whelp. This is certainly a kick to the head.

My only issue is they have removed alot of iconic units and characters now.
My dwarves have lost more than 50% of their artillery choices.
Miners are gone too.

Only real bug I have is I still needed to buy a flame cannon and thorgrim grudgebearer.
So I'll now be paying premium eBay prices.
May need a 2nd bolt thrower now too.




Just hope they are leaving the lizards alone now as that's one thing that would be the final straw to me.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

Answer = don't buy the poorly scaled GW stuff.

Damn, what a stunning insight, now all I need to do is create an entirely new mathematics, use it to devise a workable concept of time travel, invent a machine that enables me to exploit said concept, then travel back into the past to tell my five year old self that rather than starting a collection of GW figures for the setting I found interesting and which would grow into my favourite fantasy world, I should wait and base my collection on historicals plastics that wouldn't exist for another 15 years. Genius!

Or perhaps you meant I should throw away the thousands of pounds worth and thousands of hours of effort worth of models I presently own and just pull a couple of grand out of my arse to rebuy a vaguely-equivalent amount of models from historicals companies? That would also be a supremely reasonable and extremely clever suggestion

I use myself as an example, but of course I'm hardly alone in already having a pretty substantial collection of GW figures, and I'm also hardly alone in preferring to maintain a consistent scale and aesthetic across that collection regardless of which company I buy the models from. You don't like heroic scale - that's nice, some of us do, or are willing to tolerate it because of other aspects of the design we like. Clamber down off that skyscraper-esque high horse of yours before you suffer oxygen deprivation.

So sad to see so many fantasy models going.

Some I really don't get, the plastic high elf bolt thrower?

My hope would be that we see new versions of some of the older kits. For instance a dual high elf spearmen / archers kit is long overdue. But I can't help but feel even if it did happen the new AoS styling would make them incompatible with anybodies WHFB army.

Held a small wake for Morathi a few days a go, she will be missed.


Sad to see so many go, but its understandable, they belong to a world that no longer exists, just hoping what ever comes out the Dark Aelf pile (when ever they get around to doing them) catches my interest, but its looking doubtful at this point.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Held a small wake for Morathi a few days a go, she will be missed.


Sad to see so many go, but its understandable, they belong to a world that no longer exists, just hoping what ever comes out the Dark Aelf pile (when ever they get around to doing them) catches my interest, but its looking doubtful at this point.

Don't get too teary-eyed, she's still around. She's Malerion's high priestess from what little I've been able to find about the Shadowkin.

The AOS is just way too bland for my liking. I always enjoyed reading white dwarf articles like battle reports and especially stuff about Lore. I liked the tale of 4 gamers way back... the Stirland river patrol force with empire militias modelled to look like they're wading through a river, bugmans brewery, the big siege of middenheim battle report with the gigantic walls, the lustria skirmish campaign with bretonnian knights.

As a teenager 10 years ago i could only invest in one game to start with and chose lord of the rings (no regrets, I still think its one of the best gw war games). Then I started on 5th ed 40k splitting black reach with a friend. But I was always interested in warhammer fantasy too.

But over the years warhammer 40k evolved in ways I disliked, and gw in general grew extremely expensive, and white dwarf devolved into a shadow of its formed self. So my interest in 40k and fantasy waned, and I gravitated back to lord of the rings, and then non gw stuff (currently running z dungeons and dragons campaign).

Now they've nukd the fantasy setting and replaced it with something more bland and simplistic, with nowhere near as much of the richness as what came before.

The only Age of Sigmar models I can ever for see myself purchasing are some of the sigmarines but only ic i ever need Aasimar angels for dungeons and dragons.

You keep saying that without factoring in that Fantasy had how many years to establish itself?

We're not even a year in to Age of Sigmar. We've got brief descriptions of things and hints of things to come. For example, the latest audio drama? There's Ogors in there wearing head to toe plate armor and wielding gigantic shields, acting as shock troops for the rest of their clan during fights with the Stormcast.

And y'know what? Little hints like that were dropped about Dorghar months in advance. Be patient. Look around for bread crumbs--because they most certainly are there.

 Breotan wrote:

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

GW redesigned Necrons and they flew off the shelves. GW redesigned Dark Eldar and they flew off the shelves. GW even did a minor redesign to Tau and they're still flying off the shelves. I'm firmly of the mindset that had GW put the same effort into Fantasy they would have sold more than they did.

Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves. Looking back that 2 month release seemed like a last chance for warhammer. We can argue about why it didnt work (price, ugly horses) but Gw tried a major reboot of a fantasy range with a similar number of new kits to the dark eldar reboot which didnt do the business for them. That said The dark elves have largely survived so there is still hope for them.

The gw aos Facebook page has directly said that some of the heroes and armies affected by this cull will get new minis in the future. I am guessing that Tyrion at least will get a new model. The Brettonians aside the high elves have come off worst in this cull. I suspect will see something high elfish when the AOS story finally reaches the realm of light.

@Kanluwen,
HEY! Spoilers man!

@Chikout,

Oh they're definitely going to build up the gutted ones. You can't really have Tyrion as a major protagonist and not give him a model when he previosly had one.

The Bretonnians might not make a return though but a little mixing of future free people and aelves will fix that.

Chikout wrote:

Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves. Looking back that 2 month release seemed like a last chance for warhammer. We can argue about why it didnt work (price, ugly horses) but Gw tried a major reboot of a fantasy range with a similar number of new kits to the dark eldar reboot which didnt do the business for them. That said The dark elves have largely survived so there is still hope for them.

Strictly speaking, the reason why Dark Elves didn't "fly off the shelves" is that the book wasn't that strong. None of the stuff that got resculpts was really awe-inspiring, statwise, to begin with.

The gw aos Facebook page has directly said that some of the heroes and armies affected by this cull will get new minis in the future. I am guessing that Tyrion at least will get a new model. The Brettonians aside the high elves have come off worst in this cull. I suspect will see something high elfish when the AOS story finally reaches the realm of light.

Wood Elves actually came out worse than High Elves. High Elves lost most of their Finecast heroes, three aging plastic kits(Archers, Silver Helms, and Spearmen), a 5 man sprue that was associated with a starter set that is no longer around and the models/profiles associated with that same starter set.

Wood Elves lost an entire subfaction that was within their ranks(Sylvaneth), basically every one of their heroes, one of their most amazing units(Waywatchers are no longer units but now Heroes only--bonus for me as I had 15 of them and a Waywatcher Lord to begin with), and several of their 'okay' units(Glade Riders are gone, Wardancers are gone--I'm kinda pissed most about the loss of Hunting Hounds and Orion as I had a blast with the synergy those two units had).

They went from having a brisk 25-ish Elven unit entries to 11 unit entries in "Wanderers"--and that's with them gaining the "Sisters of the Watch"(Sisters of Avelorn renamed).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
@Kanluwen,
HEY! Spoilers man!

Note how I gave a description of the unit, not anything about the battles or the like.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

Answer = don't buy the poorly scaled GW stuff.

Damn, what a stunning insight, now all I need to do is create an entirely new mathematics, use it to devise a workable concept of time travel, invent a machine that enables me to exploit said concept, then travel back into the past to tell my five year old self that rather than starting a collection of GW figures for the setting I found interesting and which would grow into my favourite fantasy world, I should wait and base my collection on historicals plastics that wouldn't exist for another 15 years. Genius!

Or perhaps you meant I should throw away the thousands of pounds worth and thousands of hours of effort worth of models I presently own and just pull a couple of grand out of my arse to rebuy a vaguely-equivalent amount of models from historicals companies? That would also be a supremely reasonable and extremely clever suggestion

I use myself as an example, but of course I'm hardly alone in already having a pretty substantial collection of GW figures, and I'm also hardly alone in preferring to maintain a consistent scale and aesthetic across that collection regardless of which company I buy the models from. You don't like heroic scale - that's nice, some of us do, or are willing to tolerate it because of other aspects of the design we like. Clamber down off that skyscraper-esque high horse of yours before you suffer oxygen deprivation.

Don't take yr GW bitterness out on others. Regards.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Chikout wrote:

Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves. Looking back that 2 month release seemed like a last chance for warhammer. We can argue about why it didnt work (price, ugly horses) but Gw tried a major reboot of a fantasy range with a similar number of new kits to the dark eldar reboot which didnt do the business for them. That said The dark elves have largely survived so there is still hope for them.

Strictly speaking, the reason why Dark Elves didn't "fly off the shelves" is that the book wasn't that strong. None of the stuff that got resculpts was really awe-inspiring, statwise, to begin with.

I'm prety sure it was price that sunk the Dark Elves' big "reboot". Dark Eldar at the time had alot of new kits that were actully cheaper then other plastic kits of the time. A box of 10 witches or warriors was less then a box of 10 tacticals at the time. These kits were able to make both a troop and elite choice. Their new vehicle kits were the same or slightly less then that of alot of SM vehicles at the time also. Their prices were at a level that people were buying them just because of how cool they looked.

The Dark elf release gave us two boxes of infantry that were $60/$70 for 10 models.... That's REALY expensive for plastic infantry models. $70 for a core unit like Witch Elves was insane! I recall Dark Elf players being upset because they were hoping witch elves would go down in price, but instead the new plastic models were slightly more expensive they the metal/finecast models they replaced!

My anecdotes observations, was that generally alot of people did like the new model's. But no one realy wanted to even consider starting the army due to the expensive prices of the new kits.Only people who already owned dark elfs were bought anything, and even then not much since they already had most of everything they wanted.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Bretonnians? Easily covered by historical plastics. Problem solved

Historical plastics are often better quality too. Fireforge Miniatures Tuetonics and Perry Miniatures Wars of the Roses for instance.

And also, you know, the wrong scale entirely. Even GW's Bretonnians were barely in-scale with more modern human fantasy plastics, and they still looked totally out of place next to historicals.

Answer = don't buy the poorly scaled GW stuff.

Damn, what a stunning insight, now all I need to do is create an entirely new mathematics, use it to devise a workable concept of time travel, invent a machine that enables me to exploit said concept, then travel back into the past to tell my five year old self that rather than starting a collection of GW figures for the setting I found interesting and which would grow into my favourite fantasy world, I should wait and base my collection on historicals plastics that wouldn't exist for another 15 years. Genius!

Or perhaps you meant I should throw away the thousands of pounds worth and thousands of hours of effort worth of models I presently own and just pull a couple of grand out of my arse to rebuy a vaguely-equivalent amount of models from historicals companies? That would also be a supremely reasonable and extremely clever suggestion

I use myself as an example, but of course I'm hardly alone in already having a pretty substantial collection of GW figures, and I'm also hardly alone in preferring to maintain a consistent scale and aesthetic across that collection regardless of which company I buy the models from. You don't like heroic scale - that's nice, some of us do, or are willing to tolerate it because of other aspects of the design we like. Clamber down off that skyscraper-esque high horse of yours before you suffer oxygen deprivation.

Don't take yr GW bitterness out on others. Regards.

Don't respond to people with snarky, unhelpful comments and expect that to go unremarked. Regards. Sincerely. Much love. TTFN.

Indeed, and that's why you got an exalt from me. (It was also pretty funny)

But yeah, I have a huge collection of Bretonnians as they're my main army and other miniatures (besides GameZone) don't really match up well.

I rectified the problem however by kitbashing high elves and Stormcasts as my future AoS Bretonnians.

I basically went from buying one faction to three and any new models for either of them will only help my Bret force.

I'd say the take-away here is no old army, no faction is safe.

Stock up on SoBs and Inquisition now...

Chikout wrote:
Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves.

If I may ask what make you think that?

Thought I can only be talking for myself here, the new DE models were by far some of the best sellers we had in WFB, and while keeping in mind that they are older they totally outsold 40K Harlequins here for example. I can go back 5 years to compare all of the WFB sales we had and despite the DE redesign being far younger than that I still have 5 best sellers kits in that range, and actually my second best selling WFB kit in term of number of boxes are the Warlocks (I think they're called in English?) just behind the VC skeletons. Though if it wasn't for the slowdown caused by AoS the Putrid Blightkings would be there now.

Of course we may be an oddity as we managed to revitalize WFB a few years back and as such were benefiting for sales numbers for that game that may be quite different from a lot of other stores, at least judging by what I can get for Internet feedback. Also everything is relative as our best selling WFB kits pale in comparison of our best selling 40K kits (I don't think there is anything for any game that I've seen even remotely challenging the Imperial Knight in term of success for example). But I will challenge the idea that the DE redesign didn't make them fly off the shelves, as there were for us the most well received WFB army of all of the most recent ones.

I sincerely hope we'll get at least two different Start Collecting for DE, the way VC did.

Aye Kan, I just fear she'll be a Goddess and nothing else, of course if I'm wrong and she gets an awesome new model.. I will need to make three critical Willpower saves in a row to avoid rushing off to the shops.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd say the take-away here is no old army, no faction is safe.

Stock up on SoBs and Inquisition now...

I wouldn't say that. I mean sure, SoBs, but I kinda think that if that was going to happen they'd've done it by now. I'm just glad that my two fav WE models aren't going away.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd say the take-away here is no old army, no faction is safe.

Stock up on SoBs and Inquisition now...

I wouldn't say that. I mean sure, SoBs, but I kinda think that if that was going to happen they'd've done it by now. I'm just glad that my two fav WE models aren't going away.

yet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd say the take-away here is no old army, no faction is safe.

Stock up on SoBs and Inquisition now...

I wouldn't say that. I mean sure, SoBs, but I kinda think that if that was going to happen they'd've done it by now. I'm just glad that my two fav WE models aren't going away.

Hmm? The =I= line is down to less than half what it once was, all finecast or metal, no new releases for the online codex...

I'd say the writing is on the wall.

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

That's the spirit! feth all the people who have just recently got into playing those factions in the last couple of years!

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wood Elves lost an entire subfaction that was within their ranks(Sylvaneth), basically every one of their heroes, one of their most amazing units(Waywatchers are no longer units but now Heroes only--bonus for me as I had 15 of them and a Waywatcher Lord to begin with), and several of their 'okay' units(Glade Riders are gone, Wardancers are gone--I'm kinda pissed most about the loss of Hunting Hounds and Orion as I had a blast with the synergy those two units had).

They went from having a brisk 25-ish Elven unit entries to 11 unit entries in "Wanderers"--and that's with them gaining the "Sisters of the Watch"(Sisters of Avelorn renamed).

It is interesting times for the Elves. My Handmaiden of the Everqueen and Alarielle models are now bust - but I think that they will do just fine as a Waystrider (Handmaiden has a big spear and a bow, just like the profile for this unit) and a Spellweaver (floaty woman caster) respectively. The biggest disappointment is that I lose the Handmaiden's synergy with the Sisters (automatically letting them re-roll 1s to hit within 8" of her), and the best that they can get in-faction is a replacement of the same ability that is a Command Ability. Not sure I want to waste my general slot on a 5 wound, 4+ save infantry hero...

To be fair, relatively few of the Elven units get much benefit from Command Abilities or synergy at this point. Phoenix Guard get nothing really worth having from an Anointed, Swordmasters are on their own (though both they and the Archmages remain solid, so not too bad), the Darkling Coven models seem relatively free of synergy. On the other hand, the Loremaster, Archmage, Luminark and Hurricanium all got their synergies opened up to all Order units...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'd say the take-away here is no old army, no faction is safe.

Stock up on SoBs and Inquisition now...

I wouldn't say that. I mean sure, SoBs, but I kinda think that if that was going to happen they'd've done it by now. I'm just glad that my two fav WE models aren't going away.

Hmm? The =I= line is down to less than half what it once was, all finecast or metal, no new releases for the online codex...

I'd say the writing is on the wall.

Lets wonder what GW defenders will say. Oh they were an army of negative stereotypes, Oh metal is just awful, and the best one they were female space marines anyway.

I should run a book.

Baron Klatz wrote:
The Bretonnians might not make a return though but a little mixing of future free people and aelves will fix that.

What free people?

Herzlos wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
The Bretonnians might not make a return though but a little mixing of future free people and aelves will fix that.

What free people?

The Empire humans have become "Free Peoples".

Looks like humans get to join in the fun in the next Realmgate Wars book next week. The Candlemen, interesting name. Color me curious.

Now only about 4-5 items available out of the 90 listed on Friday. Some really iconic models now gone :( Managed to pick up a few items thankfully but missed out on the Kurt Hellborg model sadly..that was one of the first to sell out and it's understandable to see why...lovely model

I still have to wonder, at the risk of sounding too much like a conspiracy theorist, if this is a hamfisted GW attempt at sabotaging Mantic's converts from WHFB by starving the ability to buy WHFB figures for KoW use.

It wouldn't be hard to imagine a world where GW fully intended to make the effort to keep the legacy armies alive in the AoS setting, but after seeing the death of WHFB (seemingly) play so much more in Mantic's favor than GW's, they decided that if they can't have them, noone can.

I mean, if you are GW, it's gotta hurt to see 90% of KoW games, photos, and video batreps featuring nearly a total use of the figures you are trying to sell a completely new and revamped game system for. Even Stormcast see a large use as Ogres.

Trying to see a reason WHFB couldn't make enough money with these figures when a product from another company can, or at least at face value to the average fan seems to do better.

But they're not trying to sell a rules system, because they're giving it away for free.
They're trying to sell minis (which has been pointed out ad infinitum).
If people are buying GW minis, then I doubt GW really care what for.
Obviously yes, playing GW games with them keeps people on the reservation, but if they're playing a Mantic game using rules Mantic gave away for free and giving GW their money instead of Mantic, I don't think they'll be too upset.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I still have to wonder, at the risk of sounding too much like a conspiracy theorist, if this is a hamfisted GW attempt at sabotaging Mantic's converts from WHFB by starving the ability to buy WHFB figures for KoW use.

It wouldn't be hard to imagine a world where GW fully intended to make the effort to keep the legacy armies alive in the AoS setting, but after seeing the death of WHFB (seemingly) play so much more in Mantic's favor than GW's, they decided that if they can't have them, noone can.

I mean, if you are GW, it's gotta hurt to see 90% of KoW games, photos, and video batreps featuring nearly a total use of the figures you are trying to sell a completely new and revamped game system for. Even Stormcast see a large use as Ogres.

Trying to see a reason WHFB couldn't make enough money with these figures when a product from another company can, or at least at face value to the average fan seems to do better.

They both make more off the models then the rule books. It would be in GW's interest to keep selling the best generic fantesy models on the market and make money off that.

All they did was create demand for more generic orks, dwarfs, elfs, ect. If Wargames Factory wasn't out of the game now they could be raking it in lol

RoperPG wrote:
But they're not trying to sell a rules system, because they're giving it away for free.
They're trying to sell minis (which has been pointed out ad infinitum).
If people are buying GW minis, then I doubt GW really care what for.
Obviously yes, playing GW games with them keeps people on the reservation, but if they're playing a Mantic game using rules Mantic gave away for free and giving GW their money instead of Mantic, I don't think they'll be too upset.

Ok, technically the rules are not for sale. Just everything else in the rules section.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
But they're not trying to sell a rules system, because they're giving it away for free.
They're trying to sell minis (which has been pointed out ad infinitum).
If people are buying GW minis, then I doubt GW really care what for.
Obviously yes, playing GW games with them keeps people on the reservation, but if they're playing a Mantic game using rules Mantic gave away for free and giving GW their money instead of Mantic, I don't think they'll be too upset.

Ok, technically the rules are not for sale. Just everything else in the rules section.

Your Logical Fallacy is: Appeal to GW being a business.
It's exactly the same with Mantic. Basics for free, extras cost more. Are we really that entitled *already* that a company charging for rules is seen as a bad thing?
GW 'win' if you play Mantic stuff with their minis, so doing what you suggested doesn't make sense.
As far as Kings of War is concerned, it's business as usual. People will play it using minis they bought from a different company.

Who know's what GW is thinking in regards to KoW. They might like it, because people are still buying models, they might not like it because traditionally GW have preferred having a closed ecosystem where they pretend their customers don't even know alternatives exist.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Who know's what GW is thinking in regards to KoW. They might like it, because people are still buying models, they might not like it because traditionally GW have preferred having a closed ecosystem where they pretend their customers don't even know alternatives exist.

GW is a company that had 'commissars' who would walk into stores and fire all staff, and who call their staff the greatest threat to their business. They have removed names from everything, meaning sculptors and writers can't really make a name for themselves in the community while working there.

I think it would be very reasonable to assume that GW's management would consider anyone who used to be a big name at GW working in other companies to be a traitor and a horrible person.

This is just sad. :(

 Wulfson_40K wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves.

If I may ask what make you think that?

The quick answer? The sheer need to justify GW's decision by any means necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Exactly. Which is why it baffles me that GW is doing this. They should use Kings of War to sell more miniatures.

 jonolikespie wrote:
They have removed names from everything, meaning sculptors and writers can't really make a name for themselves in the community while working there.

But on the plus side, no death threats from neckbeards.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I think it would be very reasonable to assume that GW's management would consider anyone who used to be a big name at GW working in other companies to be a traitor and a horrible person.

Or comedic. Just as reasonable an assumption.

Way OT, sorry!

 Mymearan wrote:

Chikout wrote:
The whole brettonians range yes, but only bits and pieces from the others. A few nice character models going away and a couple of nice plastic kits but it is mostly the older and uglier stuff that is going. The empire still has 15 plastic kits left. That is twice as many as the Stormcast.

Yep, this is not that big of a deal honestly. Mostly expected stuff (metals and Finecast) and ugly old plastic kits. Empire, Dark Elves, High Elves, Wood Elves and Dwarfs srill have most of their best kits available, with a few exceptions.

Shades, Lord on Cold One, Sorceress on Cold One, Lord with Great Weapon? These were awesome models in the Dark Elf range. Also, the only Lord/Hero models left in the Dark Elf range are the plastic sorceress (great model), Lord/Sorc on Dragon (good model), Hellebron in the cauldron of blood kit, Shadowblade and the abysmal sword-legged black ark fleetmaster.

Shadowblade is no longer a named character. At least in the app update. He's still in the legacy section though.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
At first I thought "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! THE DWARFS ARE GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" but then I realized they still have the core units. The dwarfs aren't going to be nerfed, right?

Well, that depends on whether you consider these guys to be a core of your army.

Which every slef respecting Dwarf player should.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skullhammer wrote:
Shadowblade is no longer a named character. At least in the app update. He's still in the legacy section though.

Goddammit GW! Stop removing all of the flavour from my army!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chikout wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

GW redesigned Necrons and they flew off the shelves. GW redesigned Dark Eldar and they flew off the shelves. GW even did a minor redesign to Tau and they're still flying off the shelves. I'm firmly of the mindset that had GW put the same effort into Fantasy they would have sold more than they did.

Gw redisgned Dark elves and they didnt fly off the shelves. Looking back that 2 month release seemed like a last chance for warhammer. We can argue about why it didnt work (price, ugly horses) but Gw tried a major reboot of a fantasy range with a similar number of new kits to the dark eldar reboot which didnt do the business for them. That said The dark elves have largely survived so there is still hope for them.

GW didn't really redesign the Dark Elves. They released plastic Witch Elves (finally!) but at a ridiculously high price for a unit that needed around 4 boxes to be used, they cut the number of warriors you got in a box and gave them silly names, they released plastic Dark Riders (finally!) and finally got around to giving Dark Elves the chariot that had been in their book for so long.

The dual Black Guard/Executioner box lost the unique character of both, in my opinion, though the Executioners more so. The metal executioners looked sleek and lithe and deadly. They had their own separate style to the Black Guard. That was lost by putting them into a dual-kit which turned them into head and weapon swaps.

They also failed to update any of our characters except Shadowblade and Hellebron. Malekith needed a new dragon and Malus needed a new sculpt completely.

GW doesn't just want to sell models they want to lock us into their ecosystem, their paints, their tools, their bases, their fluff.

They don't want us buying Brettonian knights because there are other comperable products out there. They want us to buy Fyr Slyryrs and Bluddeth Dethbludders who no one else makes.

I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

About the rest, well...that was expected. Still surprised they kept the wood and high elves for some parts. After all, why not...it's just I thought all elves would become "shadow elves".

But hey, since AoS is all about "mini factions" and releasing miniatures when they feel like it, it makes sense. More to come in the future, undoubtly.

Better to grab what you can when it's still here. After this...it's all about the wonderful world of Ebay and despicable speculation.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Shadowblade is no longer a named character. At least in the app update. He's still in the legacy section though.

Goddammit GW! Stop removing all of the flavour from my army!

Shadowblade still 'exists' as a warscroll. In AoS terms though, he's been dead for thousands of years, so having an updates warscroll for him wouldn't make sense.

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

Indeed! We just can't have boxes of infantry that aren't horribly priced now, can we?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RoperPG wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Shadowblade is no longer a named character. At least in the app update. He's still in the legacy section though.

Goddammit GW! Stop removing all of the flavour from my army!

Shadowblade still 'exists' as a warscroll. In AoS terms though, he's been dead for thousands of years, so having an updates warscroll for him wouldn't make sense.

Shadowblade also exists in many FB iterations. IF you choose to play on AoS though... that's how it's gonna be.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Indeed! We just can't have boxes of infantry that aren't horribly priced now, can we?

Of course. We will just have prices adapted for a skirmish game, like troops for Warmachine/Horde.

What? AoS isn't a "skirmish game"? Well it's certainly not suited for massive battles. Sure, GW will keep telling you can buy huge amounts of boxes to build your collection, but it's not like that you have to do that to enjoy the game.

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Indeed! We just can't have boxes of infantry that aren't horribly priced now, can we?

Of course. We will just have prices adapted for a skirmish game, like troops for Warmachine/Horde.

What? AoS isn't a "skirmish game"? Well it's certainly not suited for massive battles. Sure, GW will keep telling you can buy huge amounts of boxes to build your collection, but it's not like that you have to do that to enjoy the game.

Are you really defending that a lower model count on a game or even the type of game itself is grounds for hilariously overpricing the models used to play it? Because that's what you're saying.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Indeed! We just can't have boxes of infantry that aren't horribly priced now, can we?

Of course. We will just have prices adapted for a skirmish game, like troops for Warmachine/Horde.

What? AoS isn't a "skirmish game"? Well it's certainly not suited for massive battles. Sure, GW will keep telling you can buy huge amounts of boxes to build your collection, but it's not like that you have to do that to enjoy the game.

I wouldn't go so far as to call AoS a "skirmish game". Maybe more of a "skirmish experience".

 Sarouan wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Indeed! We just can't have boxes of infantry that aren't horribly priced now, can we?

Of course. We will just have prices adapted for a skirmish game, like troops for Warmachine/Horde.

What? AoS isn't a "skirmish game"? Well it's certainly not suited for massive battles. Sure, GW will keep telling you can buy huge amounts of boxes to build your collection, but it's not like that you have to do that to enjoy the game.

And you don't have to play 40K at 2K+ points with superheavies, but in a lot of places that's the only type of game you're going to get. People can go through the whole "wake up sheeple!" routine as much as they want, at the end of the day lots of people want "easy & official", so how the company portrays "normal" games is more important than what the ruleset technically allows you to do - you can enjoy playing AoS as a small-skirmish game no doubt, if it's your bag, but if everyone else in your area still willing to play the game wants to play in the GWHQ "fill the table edges with models and run them into a big blob in the middle" style then functionally it's not a small-skirmish game.

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

Which shows just how friggin' awful they were for Elves.

Seriously. Those hamfisted monstrosities were the reason I never started a High Elf army proper.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Waaargh wrote:
The minis have been there for years, 10+, yelling at GW for not selling them anymore is harsh.

That's the spirit! feth all the people who have just recently got into playing those factions in the last couple of years!

The problem for everyone, especially GW, is the number of people who increasingly haven't been getting into playing factions in the last few years. (I.e. falling sales.)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

Indeed. I've seen more than a few great armies of Mechanicum or Arabic themed humans made thanks to those high elf archers.

At least we nowadays have the frostgrave cultists to use as a base for robed figures, though their aestetic is more tattered and scruffy looking than the high elves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

Which shows just how friggin' awful they were for Elves.

Seriously. Those hamfisted monstrosities were the reason I never started a High Elf army proper.

So before you had zero high elf archer/spearmen kits without hamfists and now that the kits are gone you still have zero high elf archer/spearmen kits without hamfists.
And this is an improvement somehow?

Of course it's an improvement.

It means those hamfisted monstrosities aren't taking up shelf space at shops and that nobody can ever be hurt by them again.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

Which shows just how friggin' awful they were for Elves.

Seriously. Those hamfisted monstrosities were the reason I never started a High Elf army proper.

I definitely think the new sculpts for their replacement units are awesome though. So much better! Right...? Oh wait...


Automatically Appended Next Post:


More room for overpriced Sigmarines, of course!

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

I definitely think the new sculpts for their replacement units are awesome though. So much better! Right...? Oh wait...

Those replacement units are so great!

Oh wait...

High Elves are an elite force now. You have the Swifthawk Agents(Shadow Warriors, Skycutters, Skywarden on Skycutter, Chariots), the Order Draconis(Dragon Noble, Dragon Blades, Dragonlord), the Lion Rangers(White Lions and White Lion Chariot), the Eldritch Council(Archmage on Dragon, Swordmasters[I'm STILL surprised those guys survived the cull], Drakeseer, Loremaster, and Archmage), and the Phoenix Temple(Flamespyre Phoenix, Frostheart Phoenix, Phoenix Guard, and Anointed). Low unit counts for each and heavily themed(Swifthawk Agents only have bonuses for things that Fly from the Skywarden as an example).

Whenever we see the first Aelf faction proper, we'll likely see a revamped Archer and Spearmen kit. As it stands right now though? These are the remnants of the World That Was. The populaces of the different High Elf provinces were decimated during the End Times anyways, so it's not exactly illogical that they purged the Citizen Levies(Spearmen, Archers, and Silver Helms) from the army lists. That it happened to get rid of older kits is just a bonus to them.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Of course it's an improvement.

It means those hamfisted monstrosities aren't taking up shelf space at shops and that nobody can ever be hurt by them again.

I'm not so sure whatever takes their place at the shops will be much use for the people that made use of the high elves as bases to convert robed humanoid figures though.
Or for that matter, the people that either liked the models despite the hamfists or replaced the hands with better scaled ones from leftovers of other kits (really easy to do if both kits are plastic).

But feth all those people, right? As long as the great Kanluwen don't need to sully his vision, looking at such inferior sculpts, it's an improvement in the grand scale of things.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

I definitely think the new sculpts for their replacement units are awesome though. So much better! Right...? Oh wait...

Those replacement units are so great!

Oh wait...

High Elves are an elite force now

They already were, so your point after this is completely and utterly null. It is especially null when the GW-sponsored events base your "army" restrictions on model count, which makes any definition of "Elite" or "Horde" pointless because you're bringing X models to the tabletop, period.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Whenever we see the first Aelf faction proper, we'll likely see a revamped Archer and Spearmen kit. As it stands right now though? These are the remnants of the World That Was. The populaces of the different High Elf provinces were decimated during the End Times anyways, so it's not exactly illogical that they purged the Citizen Levies(Spearmen, Archers, and Silver Helms) from the army lists. That it happened to get rid of older kits is just a bonus to them.

That's all very pretty, but they could still hold on to the kits until the actual replacements are out. But hey, if they want to destroy potential purchases, it's their deal.

I can live without the spearmen/archers but they removed the seaguard! The seaguard!

That was some of the best fantasy plastics on the market! Not perfect, being one-pose and all, but great looking elf models. Real shame to see them go. The Empire cannon was also pretty good not to mention all the excellent character models...

The seaguard going is a real head scratcher. I'm super glad I picked up that IoB set before it went from my FLGS now.

 Da Boss wrote:
The seaguard going is a real head scratcher. I'm super glad I picked up that IoB set before it went from my FLGS now.

It's not that big of a head scratcher. The Sea Guard that they were selling were literally just them having clipped 5 Sea Guard off an IoB sprue section.

Yeah, but they were great minis. Perhaps they sold poorly. I really liked them - they are the minis that made me finally buy some high elves after more than a decade.

Meh, if I wanted high elf spearmen and archers now I'd just use wood elf eternal/glade guard and mix in some high elf parts.

Sad to see Kurt Helborg go, his mustache will be remembered.

One exalt for Kanluwen.

Don't get me wrong; I love variety and it's indeed sad to see most of these miniatures go. Except for High elves archers and spearmen (well, ESPECIALLY the spearmen), but that's just my personnal taste.

But after some time, you have to come back to reality; that's what GW decided to do. Now, High Elves are divided in mini factions that are quite clear and only use a smaller part of what they used to have. So, gone the archers, spearmen, silver helms, ballista, even the swordmasters and ellyrian cavalry I think. Not even talking about the other armies.

Because they have decided they no longer have the place on their shelves for these. That's all.

Yep, it's a pity but what can you do? Whine about something already done? Better to roll with it and either accept it or just get out of this gak once and for all.

For myself, after some time, I decided to roll with it. I'm enjoying my overpriced Stormcast Eternals and like to build my own collection. I'm even making some conversions that don't have a profile in AoS and use square/rectangular bases because it's better for me to use for other game systems as well.

I'm also playing a lot of (too many...) others games from others companies. And guess what, for the same quality (sometimes lesser...), if you go on a Skirmish game, the price isn't that better with competitors. And you know what? I roll with it and buy what I like and feel reasonnable. I like to take Warmachine/Horde for comparisons because it's just so true (seriously, the price for 10 basic troopers isn't that far from GW WItch Elves or any other box of "elite troopers" as I like to call them. I won't even talk about Warmachine/Horde cavalry, that makes Chaos Vanguard nearly something "acceptable in the end").

What happens with GW is just making us remember nothing is eternal, especially not a wargame with miniatures. So, better grab these collector miniatures before they go to Ebay at even more insane prices making Stormcast Eternal Stardrake's one just a joke. Look at what happen to "old GW games" like Epic, Necromunda or even worse miniatures. Just because of nostalgia and not being sold anymore on the main webstore and suddenly, price goes up right above the stars. Funny thing they still find buyers.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

How is that a benefit for you or anyone?

It's not like they've replaced them with new archers/spearmen with reasonably sized hands. They've just stopped selling them.

Yeah, the HE archers for example were useful for whenever you needed human figures in robes, and now they're gone, gone, gone forever.

Well, GW don't sell them any more, these days that's not quite the same thing as being gone forever.

How terrible the world is when you have to listen to others voice their disagreement over GW's decision. Truly, 'tis such a tragedy that others have different opinions!

Just because you "roll with it" doesn't mean others have to do the same, and they are allowed to have their own opinion regarding GW's decisions, last I checked. However, it's good to see that you seem to defend that a skirmish game is apparently a reasonable excuse to sell overpriced models. Puts a lot of your previous posts into context.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Indeed

The Seaguard are gone, which is not surprising given their status as starter-set models. However, they continue to exist in the app - and I'm certainly going to keep using them, albeit likely in support of things like Eldritch Council Mages and Collegiate Arcane Hurricaniums, which both offer buffs to 'Order' units nearby. The key here is to remember that GW are going to take models out of production if they don't sell well - but unlike in previous editions, not being in the army book equivalent does not make them magically illegal to use any more.

You wonder why GW reset the universe just to kill off everything

 Sarouan wrote:
Don't get me wrong; I love variety and it's indeed sad to see most of these miniatures go. Except for High elves archers and spearmen (well, ESPECIALLY the spearmen), but that's just my personnal taste.

But after some time, you have to come back to reality; that's what GW decided to do. Now, High Elves are divided in mini factions that are quite clear and only use a smaller part of what they used to have. So, gone the archers, spearmen, silver helms, ballista, even the swordmasters and ellyrian cavalry I think. Not even talking about the other armies.

Because they have decided they no longer have the place on their shelves for these. That's all.

Yep, it's a pity but what can you do? Whine about something already done? Better to roll with it and either accept it or just get out of this gak once and for all.

I'm quite sure most of us will survive just fine without these HighElf minis being available from GW. Of course models generally wont be available from their manufacturers forever.

I can understand the removal of the elves not being any loss for you, (and admittedly not for me either, i would never buy those models new from GW) but comments such as this:

 Sarouan wrote:
I'm glad they get rid of these horrible High elves archers and spearmen.

Imply that you are somehow better off with those models gone.

If and when any replacements come out, sure. No such exist at the moment though so the only thing that's happened is that you've gone from zero highelf spearmen/archer models you'll buy to zero highelf spearmen/archer models you'll buy.

I guess you could be better of if you enjoy knowing that other people now have it worse? If so, enjoy the schadenfreude I guess.

 Harriticus wrote:
You wonder why GW reset the universe just to kill off everything

I thought it had been established that GW switched from WHFB to AoS to help purge the issues of rules bloat and model bloat. The rules had gotten too complex and convoluted and they were producing and stocking a huge number of kits for a large number of armies for a game that wasn't selling at the level needed to justify the cost. AoS has simplified rules, fewer armies and fewer kits and a smaller scope for games. Winnowing the game down was a primary objective of the change in systems.