These models seemed to be designed to sell to the 40K fans who have been crying out for Squats for years; the larger airship looks like a good basis for a Dwarf Zeppelin conversion and could look cool combined with the Titanforge large zeppelin model: http://titan-forge.com/fantasy_miniatures_metal_beards_colossal_zeppelin
Lord Kragan wrote: Okay, I was wrong. They had 4+ saves. BUT, they are doing DMG 2 two now in CQC. So Khorgoraths now do twice the damage. OUCH.
They needed it. People talk about warscrolls that don't work like they should and the Khorgorath was one of them. Compared to the big stompy psuedo-monster its portrayed as, it's tabletop performance was rather lackluster.
Lord Kragan wrote: Okay, I was wrong. They had 4+ saves. BUT, they are doing DMG 2 two now in CQC. So Khorgoraths now do twice the damage. OUCH.
They needed it. People talk about warscrolls that don't work like they should and the Khorgorath was one of them. Compared to the big stompy psuedo-monster its portrayed as, it's tabletop performance was rather lackluster.
I know it, though squads of monsters sounded scary... the fact that my brutes could easily outpunch them with a megaboss in tow was hilarious. Now? I think it evens the odds.
I peraonally think gyrocopters and 'bombers would look great among the Karadron ships!
I wonder if there will end up being some sort of battalion to allow it. If the bonuses for having a full army of the Overlords isn't too great, you could always just run them both together.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: So this is a good example of something that needed a buff getting one. Still so very strange to see it from Games Workshop though.
The next step it to see things needing a nerf get one as well (cough Eldar) but it's a start.
I'm hoping the head on the Admiral model is separate. With a head swap, he will make a great Squat Techpriest Enginseer. Some of the other models may make their way into 40K Inquisition and Mechanicus forces.
-Khorgos Khul can pile on up to 8'' and gets re-rolls to hit. Also all gore-tide units can move 1d6'' in the hero phase or even use them to charge Rampaging destroyers has gone chaos babies.
I personally think gyrocopters and 'bombers would look great among the Karadron ships!
If it's any comfort to you, the Kharadron airships were sculpted by the same guy who did the gyrocopter/bomber . I believe the latter are part of the Ironweld Arsenal.
Bit more on the Kharadrin now that I have the White Dwarf, it seems that they will compensate for their lack of magic and prayers by getting a unique mechanic. To quote the article:
"As the Code is the basis of all Kharadron society, we also used it as the basis of their traits. Instead of getting a single trait like most other factions, you choose your army's interpretation of the Kharadron code from a trio of lists -giving you an Article, an Amendment and a Footnote-, which allows you to interpret the Code to your preferences. But if you want to theme your army around one of the major skyports, we created bespoke rules for them. To make up for their loss of flexibility of choosing your own interpretations, you get a small bonus -such as the traditionalists of Barak-Thryng being allowed a special artefact named the Grudgehammer, or the peerless aeronauts of Barak-Zilfin gaining bonuses to their skyvessels."
Customizable army-wide rules? This is just getting better and better!
They're also talking about how they're putting hobby advice back into the books. Painting, weathering, sub-assembly and basing tips. Talk about a blast from the past.
Lord Kragan wrote: Bit more on the Kharadrin now that I have the White Dwarf, it seems that they will compensate for their lack of magic and prayers by getting a unique mechanic. To quote the article:
"As the Code is the basis of all Kharadron society, we also used it as the basis of their traits. Instead of getting a single trait like most other factions, you choose your army's interpretation of the Kharadron code from a trio of lists -giving you an Article, an Amendment and a Footnote-, which allows you to interpret the Code to your preferences. But if you want to theme your army around one of the major skyports, we created bespoke rules for them. To make up for their loss of flexibility of choosing your own interpretations, you get a small bonus -such as the traditionalists of Barak-Thryng being allowed a special artefact named the Grudgehammer, or the peerless aeronauts of Barak-Zilfin gaining bonuses to their skyvessels."
Customizable army-wide rules? This is just getting better and better!
They're also talking about how they're putting hobby advice back into the books. Painting, weathering, sub-assembly and basing tips. Talk about a blast from the past.
Going by the bat rep this Dave Sanders -who wrote the book together with Jeremy Vetock- seems to be a guy that actually plays games instead of adding rules that "would be awesome if it did that, right" with no thoughts on the consequences. Maybe the Battletome will reflect that. Everything in WD sounds good, so far, but of course balance and even full rules need to be tested by guys trying to break them. Oh, and released.
He has a mini game in this WD as well, but I didn't have time to really read its rules, let alone play it.
I wonder how long they debated over calling it guidelines.
Also I'm now conflicted on my future paint-scheme for them. Was going for a French balloonist white, gold and blue look but the recent pictures have really made me want to follow their lore colors.
Lord Kragan wrote: Bit more on the Kharadrin now that I have the White Dwarf, it seems that they will compensate for their lack of magic and prayers by getting a unique mechanic. To quote the article:
"As the Code is the basis of all Kharadron society, we also used it as the basis of their traits. Instead of getting a single trait like most other factions, you choose your army's interpretation of the Kharadron code from a trio of lists -giving you an Article, an Amendment and a Footnote-, which allows you to interpret the Code to your preferences. But if you want to theme your army around one of the major skyports, we created bespoke rules for them. To make up for their loss of flexibility of choosing your own interpretations, you get a small bonus -such as the traditionalists of Barak-Thryng being allowed a special artefact named the Grudgehammer, or the peerless aeronauts of Barak-Zilfin gaining bonuses to their skyvessels."
Customizable army-wide rules? This is just getting better and better!
They're also talking about how they're putting hobby advice back into the books. Painting, weathering, sub-assembly and basing tips. Talk about a blast from the past.
I got halfway through before collapsing I to a gibbering mound of excitement.
I wonder how long they debated over calling it guidelines.
Also I'm now conflicted on my future paint-scheme for them. Was going for a French balloonist white, gold and blue look but the recent pictures have really made me want to follow their lore colors.
You could do like my Ironjawz, paint parts of it of the colours you want. Then again, my Ironjawz's work it because they are the remnants of the WAAAGH! of da Five Mobs (guess how many colour schemes I was debating on) and I've made a robust lore explanation that makes me feel proud of the non-uniformity of that ragtag.
Lord Kragan wrote: Bit more on the Kharadrin now that I have the White Dwarf, it seems that they will compensate for their lack of magic and prayers by getting a unique mechanic. To quote the article:
"As the Code is the basis of all Kharadron society, we also used it as the basis of their traits. Instead of getting a single trait like most other factions, you choose your army's interpretation of the Kharadron code from a trio of lists -giving you an Article, an Amendment and a Footnote-, which allows you to interpret the Code to your preferences. But if you want to theme your army around one of the major skyports, we created bespoke rules for them. To make up for their loss of flexibility of choosing your own interpretations, you get a small bonus -such as the traditionalists of Barak-Thryng being allowed a special artefact named the Grudgehammer, or the peerless aeronauts of Barak-Zilfin gaining bonuses to their skyvessels."
Customizable army-wide rules? This is just getting better and better!
They're also talking about how they're putting hobby advice back into the books. Painting, weathering, sub-assembly and basing tips. Talk about a blast from the past.
From bell of lost souls, should I say this is more slaanesh hints? Heh GW can't seem to not help themselves mentioning slaanesh in recent publications involving chaos. DOT, Warhammer quest hammerhal and now this snippet. Think in context if you read my lore posts slaanesh is out of the lime light and it's highly likely he/she is still playing the great game. Now slaanesh is most like currently surrounded by a lot of aelves and chaos being a thing of pure corruption I am quite sure keeping a chaos god in the mortal realms is not going to be healthy for one's mind. Just my theory I suspect corrupted aelves joining the humans.
From end times khaine
Morathi opens up the vortex to let the hand of slaanesh through I mean his/her literal hand
"Morathi saw the eye too, but in hermadness did not care. Indeed, she invited its gaze, casting ever wilder magics to tempt it nearer. She no longer feared oblivion in slaanesh's gullet. not if it would exhort the thirsting god to lay waste to all of Ulthuan. This would be her vegenace, perhaps even her apotheosis, for could not slaanesh's favour could be courted? "
As the vortext shrank in on itself, so too did the rift at its heart, and a great ululating howl split the air as slaanesh realised he had been cheated on his feast. The vast, taloned hand groped frantically as the rift contracted, desperate to seize some vibrant morsel, Morathi at last realising her folly, backed away. She did not see Caledor approach. The mage held Morathi fast as the giant hand drew near. The sorceress shrieked, and tore at Caledor with nails and teeth. Blood ran as rivers down the mage's face, but still he held on, drawing her into the last embrace that either would ever know. Your race is run, child he said. Meet your end with the dignity of your heritage. Something in those words at last pierced Mortahi's madness, and she fell limp in caledor's arms.As the claws closed around them both, she screamed one last time and then there was silence.
Then in AOS she was not liberated from slaanesh's gullet, Malerion/Malekith actually found her again in ulgu. Yes he found her and all they noted that he noticed she was "changed" somehow. I personally think this is slaanesh's gambit or him playing the game. Also the picture who's crown does that look like? Also how would tyrion and malerion along with teclis imprison a god? I personally believe Morathi is the prison and might explain why slaaneshi followers still get marked and gain mutations even though slaanesh is "missing."
In truth Khorne misses slaanesh. Actually, it would be ironic if the quest of rescue was made by khornates and slaaneshis. "I-it's not like I wanted to help you, b-baka!"
Lord Kragan wrote: In truth Khorne misses slaanesh. Actually, it would be ironic if the quest of rescue was made by khornates and slaaneshis. "I-it's not like I wanted to help you, b-baka!"
"I missed you bro! I mean? Sister? WHATEVER!"
Time for more BLOODSHED like old times! Khorne misses his eternal enemy to fight. Each god has a brother god they mainly face in the great game I do wonder if deep down khorne may actually miss the dark prince as you said. I do think it would be cool/funny if khorne did aid in his/her release somehow.
They're also talking about how they're putting hobby advice back into the books. Painting, weathering, sub-assembly and basing tips. Talk about a blast from the past.
If true, this would be a huge improvement. I often remarked on how lacking in the content the newer books are compared to their predecessors.
I'll say this, mostly so I can point to it in future when someone starts whinging I'm too negative about AoS and never ever give it a chance: Having gone through the WD, I really like the Kharadron Overlord models, enough that I'll genuinely consider buying the Start Collecting box for them when it eventually shows up.
I don't think I'll ever give even the tinest crap for AoS' fluff, but if they keep putting out factions this visually striking and interesting and stop trying to call back to the IP they wrecked to bring it out, I might be able to bring myself to enjoy the game system in the way I enjoy non-GW game systems(as an occasional gameplay/social diversion).
Yodhrin wrote: I'll say this, mostly so I can point to it in future when someone starts whinging I'm too negative about AoS and never ever give it a chance: Having gone through the WD, I really like the Kharadron Overlord models, enough that I'll genuinely consider buying the Start Collecting box for them when it eventually shows up.
I don't think I'll ever give even the tinest crap for AoS' fluff, but if they keep putting out factions this visually striking and interesting and stop trying to call back to the IP they wrecked to bring it out, I might be able to bring myself to enjoy the game system in the way I enjoy non-GW game systems(as an occasional gameplay/social diversion).
This is music to my ears, Yodderz!
I too can't wait for them. The Battletome is going to be such a joy to read as all the fluff is so new and uncharted territory. The Grundstok Mercs in my Order army will be a welcome addition too!
Yodhrin wrote: I'll say this, mostly so I can point to it in future when someone starts whinging I'm too negative about AoS and never ever give it a chance: Having gone through the WD, I really like the Kharadron Overlord models, enough that I'll genuinely consider buying the Start Collecting box for them when it eventually shows up.
I don't think I'll ever give even the tinest crap for AoS' fluff, but if they keep putting out factions this visually striking and interesting and stop trying to call back to the IP they wrecked to bring it out, I might be able to bring myself to enjoy the game system in the way I enjoy non-GW game systems(as an occasional gameplay/social diversion).
This is music to my ears, Yodderz!
I too can't wait for them. The Battletome is going to be such a joy to read as all the fluff is so new and uncharted territory. The Grundstok Mercs in my Order army will be a welcome addition too!
It's the regular line infantry that made me look again, I love the shonky pressure suits.
Honestly I think I could have liked AoS a lot more if GW hadn't shat on WHF with the End Times nonsense and if we'd been getting stuff like this right from the start rather than Orcs But Slightly Bigger, Slayers But Now Their Tattoos Are Literally Metal, and Oh Look Yet More Khorne.
Future War Cultist wrote: Has there been any further information released about the rules for the Overlords?
I have the White Dwarf on me right now. Extrapolating from the battle report.
Kharadron Ironclads have access to artifacts which can do stuff, one of them turns a weapon into The Last Word, which can fire whenever an enemy ends a charge within 1/2" of the ship.
Frigates and Ironclads can transport, Gunhaulers can't.
Arkanauts can deploy on foot.
Code addenda form skyport "Traits". Barak-Zilfin can reroll to hit and to wound rolls of one against flying targets, all skyvessels get a 6 for run moves, and their skyvessels ignore mortal wounds on a six.
Passengers aboard a skyvessel disembark when it's destroyed, some of them die, but it looks like a decent chance for them to live.
Skyvessels have detonation drills (the afflicted unit cannot attack until the end of the combat phase), Gunhaulers can have frag charges for close quarters. No exact rules on the frags.
Navigators can release an aetherstorm, causing flying units to only move half range if they're within 18" of the navigator.
Most things in the army have Movement 4.
Aethermatic volley cannons presumably have 5 shots, 10 with The Last Word against chargers.
Skyvessels can drop bombs on chargers.
That's all we know so far, I believe. It's not very specific, and mostly "Well no gak" tier stuff.
Future War Cultist wrote: Has there been any further information released about the rules for the Overlords?
I have the White Dwarf on me right now. Extrapolating from the battle report.
Kharadron Ironclads have access to artifacts which can do stuff, one of them turns a weapon into The Last Word, which can fire whenever an enemy ends a charge within 1/2" of the ship.
Frigates and Ironclads can transport, Gunhaulers can't.
Arkanauts can deploy on foot.
Code addenda form skyport "Traits". Barak-Zilfin can reroll to hit and to wound rolls of one against flying targets, all skyvessels get a 6 for run moves, and their skyvessels ignore mortal wounds on a six.
Passengers aboard a skyvessel disembark when it's destroyed, some of them die, but it looks like a decent chance for them to live.
Skyvessels have detonation drills (the afflicted unit cannot attack until the end of the combat phase), Gunhaulers can have frag charges for close quarters. No exact rules on the frags.
Navigators can release an aetherstorm, causing flying units to only move half range if they're within 18" of the navigator.
Most things in the army have Movement 4.
Aethermatic volley cannons presumably have 5 shots, 10 with The Last Word against chargers.
Skyvessels can drop bombs on chargers.
That's all we know so far, I believe. It's not very specific, and mostly "Well no gak" tier stuff.
Saw BoLS preview of the blades of khorne book. A formation that I think is new sounds interesting: Gore-Pilgrims consists of a bloodsecrator and 2-3 slaughterpriests with 1-2 of both bloodreavers and bloodwarriors. In this formation the priests get to re-roll their dice for the prayers and their signature blessing while, if they are within 8'' of a bloodsecrator widden the latter's ability radious by 6''.
TalonZahn wrote: I'm interested to see how melee oriented armies will deal with the Balloons O' Doom.
Quite easily according to the battle report as most of the balloons were taken down by large packs of ghouls
Did they stack themselves up, like World War Z style, to reach into the sky?
I mean, what's the point of having a balloon if anyone on the ground can reach up and hit it?
If I was in a balloon and and someone on the ground was hitting my balloon... I'd.... go up?
Going by fluff, it seems to be assumed that melee models have means to reach or haul down flyers in some manner. Bloodreavers are repeatedly described as throwing grappling hooks, blood warriors throwing their weapons, etc. Or in other words, it's assumed some narrative reason comes into play. So if this battle were written in fluff form, I suspect that yes, the ghouls would be described in such a manner. Which is totally badass imo.
terry wrote: all I've heard is that its not this saturday, but most likely the 15th
That just seems odd, as pre-order for the warscroll cards is supposed to be the 8th. So we could order the cards a week before the Battletome? Hopefully we'll get some more concrete info as the week goes on. I'd really like to at least get the Battletome pre-ordered this weekend and have it by the 15th.
It's odd that they released the faction without releasing any models or at least a date. Do you think they were pressured because of leaked images and so had to rush the project?
Heard on another forum that someone confirmed via twitch that no pre-orders for Kharadron Overlords would be this weekend. Rumored earliest pre-order will be the 15th for battletome and a few items, with more available for pre-order on the 22nd.
Personally, ithink the release othe battletomenis GW trying a new tactic out.
Release the rules so players have a chance to readthem over and decide what items they want to buy. Or perhaps its a tactic meant to draw out the release?
Carnikang wrote: Personally, ithink the release othe battletomenis GW trying a new tactic out.
Release the rules so players have a chance to readthem over and decide what items they want to buy. Or perhaps its a tactic meant to draw out the release?
That would require GW to assume that people will get the rules in time, before, the pre-order of the minis.
Or, at least the leaks of the rules from people that get the tome day 1.
Nostromodamus wrote: What is the bottom symbol? It's not Slaanesh or The Horned Rat.
Most common guess is Malerion.
It's been shown a few times, but in association with Slaanesh.
Once again:
NOTHING at all is pointing towards Malerion and the Shadowkin being Chaos related. Fyreslayers has actually painted it the opposite, with the Shadowkin and Fyreslayers within the Realm of Shadow working in tandem to go against the Slaanesh followers looking for their Dark Prince.
Nostromodamus wrote: What is the bottom symbol? It's not Slaanesh or The Horned Rat.
Most common guess is Malerion.
It's been shown a few times, but in association with Slaanesh.
Once again:
NOTHING at all is pointing towards Malerion and the Shadowkin being Chaos related. Fyreslayers has actually painted it the opposite, with the Shadowkin and Fyreslayers within the Realm of Shadow working in tandem to go against the Slaanesh followers looking for their Dark Prince.
It's pretty obviously styled after Malekith's hat, but I always took that to mean it was symbolising who had captured Slaanesh. It's a symbol that Slaanesh isn't currently present, and here's why.
angelofvengeance wrote: Was gonna say, seems damn peculiar that they didn't have their respective keywords.
They didn't have them because neither monster was aligned with a specific god until now. Both could bear all 4 Marks in Fantasy.
They never had any marks in Fantasy. In AoS fluff they've been presented as more associated with the obvious, like the Tzeentch Mutalith from the first campaign book.
That looks nothing like his symbol or the symbol in the image they display his symbol in the first campaign book it's the skaven symbol with a rat on it. That image is just used to separate sections in the ends time thanqoul book nothing more it looks closer to morathi crown and in the first AOS book they noted she was in ulgu before Malerion and Malerion found no one in the realm save her he also noted she was flesh and blood still and that she was changed.
Another note is that she was found in he middle of shadow daemons having a drunk party/orgy considering she was taken by slaanesh in end times and she is still mortal at the start of AOS and not a god like her son she is going to take slaanesh throne I bet.
Also shadowkin are going to be against slaanesh as Kan said a fyreslayer lodge has good relations with the shadowkin and tattooed their hands feet and eyes with black flames.
It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I'm not quite sure how big the Slaughterbrute is, but I'll assume that what we want is the 170x105mm base. This one here.
Actually just found a chart of all bases used for fantasy (I need to bookmark that when I get home), and it looks like the Slaughterbrute used the same size base as the Chaos Chariot, so it should fit on the same size base that that one uses now (120mmx92mm). The 170mmx105mm would be the same one used by Imperial Knights and the Tau Stormsurge. Though come to think of it, I could probably use one of those and have room left over for something else. Maybe a dead Stormcast or something. Hmmm.
EnTyme wrote: Actually just found a chart of all bases used for fantasy (I need to bookmark that when I get home), and it looks like the Slaughterbrute used the same size base as the Chaos Chariot, so it should fit on the same size base that that one uses now (120mmx92mm). The 170mmx105mm would be the same one used by Imperial Knights and the Tau Stormsurge. Though come to think of it, I could probably use one of those and have room left over for something else. Maybe a dead Stormcast or something. Hmmm.
Yeah, sounds good!
Chikout wrote: Giants are getting a warscroll update too. Details not confirmed yet but may add ironjawz keyword.
Very good! Although this limits it's use for other Destruction armies though right?
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Assuming a new Great Unclean One, Nurgle already has it's own 'Monster' in the Glottkin.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Assuming a new Great Unclean One, Nurgle already has it's own 'Monster' in the Glottkin.
That's not a Monster of Chaos, it's a Rottbringer, and a hero. It seems to me that GW is starting to backtrack on splitting the WHFB factions into a thousand subfactions. In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one. I'm expecting to see this continue. Something about this latest development makes me think the Monsters of Chaos subfaction is getting combined with some of the others. My prediction is that the Brayherds and Warherds will eventually be combined back into Beastmen and take Centigors and Razorgors, and Chaos Warhounds will be moved to Slaves to Darkness. The only monsters from that faction I haven't figured out yet are the Cockatrice and Harpies.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Assuming a new Great Unclean One, Nurgle already has it's own 'Monster' in the Glottkin.
That's not a Monster of Chaos, it's a Rottbringer, and a hero. It seems to me that GW is starting to backtrack on splitting the WHFB factions into a thousand subfactions. In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one. I'm expecting to see this continue. Something about this latest development makes me think the Monsters of Chaos subfaction is getting combined with some of the others. My prediction is that the Brayherds and Warherds will eventually be combined back into Beastmen and take Centigors and Razorgors, and Chaos Warhounds will be moved to Slaves to Darkness. The only monsters from that faction I haven't figured out yet are the Cockatrice and Harpies.
You're overthinking it. All that matters is that its a big 'monster' that's not a Greater Daemon. The Glottkin fits that bill for Nurgle, just like the Slaughterbrute and the Mutalith Vortex Beast do for Khorne and Tzeentch.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Assuming a new Great Unclean One, Nurgle already has it's own 'Monster' in the Glottkin.
That's not a Monster of Chaos, it's a Rottbringer, and a hero. It seems to me that GW is starting to backtrack on splitting the WHFB factions into a thousand subfactions. In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one. I'm expecting to see this continue. Something about this latest development makes me think the Monsters of Chaos subfaction is getting combined with some of the others. My prediction is that the Brayherds and Warherds will eventually be combined back into Beastmen and take Centigors and Razorgors, and Chaos Warhounds will be moved to Slaves to Darkness. The only monsters from that faction I haven't figured out yet are the Cockatrice and Harpies.
You're overthinking it. All that matters is that its a big 'monster' that's not a Greater Daemon. The Glottkin fits that bill for Nurgle, just like the Slaughterbrute and the Mutalith Vortex Beast do for Khorne and Tzeentch.
I understand what you're saying, Ghaz. It's a Nurgle Monster . It is also a Hero and takes up a leader slot. The Slaughterbrute and Mutalith do not. The Glottkin is a cool model and an excellent addition to a Nurgle list, but it doesn't fill the same niche.
Exactly. That's what I've been trying to say. I suck at communication tonight. It's also worth noting that the Mutalith and Slaughterbrute are 220 points and 200 points respectively, while the Glottkin is 480 points. You can't exactly just slot the Glottkin into a list to beef it up the way you could the other two.
The Mutalith didn't got a massive boost, but still it has always been a pain to fight against.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
I was thinking about the same, however, Jabberslythes are currently resin kits. Hopefully will get a better idea of what's next for Nurgle on AoS alongside the coming Death Guard release. I'm still hoping that those Nurgle mutants can be built with upgrade sprues, like Tzaangors.
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I don't like four-sided bases for the bigger models either.
The120x92mm base seems to be the most common oval base used for monsters and chariots. All the Seraphon monsters use it, Chaos Chariots, Manticores and Warshrines use them. The only monsters that use a different oval bases are Stardrakes, using 170x105mm bases, and Drycha and Treelords, using 105x70mm bases.
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I'm not quite sure how big the Slaughterbrute is, but I'll assume that what we want is the 170x105mm base. This one here.
Actually just found a chart of all bases used for fantasy (I need to bookmark that when I get home), and it looks like the Slaughterbrute used the same size base as the Chaos Chariot, so it should fit on the same size base that that one uses now (120mmx92mm). The 170mmx105mm would be the same one used by Imperial Knights and the Tau Stormsurge. Though come to think of it, I could probably use one of those and have room left over for something else. Maybe a dead Stormcast or something. Hmmm.
I'd tell you to not base yourself entirely on it (no pun intended). As examples: Terradons and Spawns used 40mm square bases on Fantasy, but now use 50mm round bases on AoS, even while there are 40mm round bases; the Chaos Knights currently use bigger bases than the Marauders Horsemen, while they used the same base sizes on Fantasy; and the Slaves to Darkness Lord on Daemonic Mount use the same oval base as the Knights, while the Nurgle CL on Daemonic Mount, now Harbinger of Decay, uses a 60mm round base.
Chikout wrote: Giants are getting a warscroll update too. Details not confirmed yet but may add ironjawz keyword.
I'd like to see if they get new options for different factions, but I don't think they have to be only for Ironjawz. I still can't understand why people think that the Ironjawz Battleforce' Gargant was useless when you can deploy any unit of any faction of your Grand Alliance. Your chosen allegiance do not affect which units you can deploy.
EnTyme wrote: In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one.
Stormcasts never where splitted in subfactions. Extremis Chamber have never been a keyword. They were an expansion, even while GW had a filter for them, although unlike Chaos Mortals and Daemons, they never got an actual keyword to differentiate them.
The Mutalith didn't got a massive boost, but still it has always been a pain to fight against.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
I was thinking about the same, however, Jabberslythes are currently resin kits. Hopefully will get a better idea of what's next for Nurgle on AoS alongside the coming Death Guard release. I'm still hoping that those Nurgle mutants can be built with upgrade sprues, like Tzaangors.
Tzeentch is my favorite Dark Power, but I can't wait to see what Nurgle has coming down the pipe! He always has the most interesting models!
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I'm not quite sure how big the Slaughterbrute is, but I'll assume that what we want is the 170x105mm base. This one here.
Actually just found a chart of all bases used for fantasy (I need to bookmark that when I get home), and it looks like the Slaughterbrute used the same size base as the Chaos Chariot, so it should fit on the same size base that that one uses now (120mmx92mm). The 170mmx105mm would be the same one used by Imperial Knights and the Tau Stormsurge. Though come to think of it, I could probably use one of those and have room left over for something else. Maybe a dead Stormcast or something. Hmmm.
I'd tell you to not base yourself entirely on it (no pun intended). Terradons and Spawns used 40x40mm square bases on Fantasy, but no use 50x50mm round bases on AoS, even while there are 40x40mm round bases.
EnTyme wrote: In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one.
Stormcasts never where splitted in subfactions. Extremis Chamber have never been a keyword. They were an expansion, even while GW had a filter for them, although unlike Chaos Mortals and Daemons, they never got an actual keyword to differentiate them.
Now the elves, on the other hand...
Extremis still got its own Battletome, so combining it with the rest of the Stormcast line and the Vanguard chamber (can't quite remember the name) definitely simplifies things. And yeah. Elves are an absolute mess right now. Four subfactions for Dark Elves, five for High Elves, and one for Wood Elves (two if you count Sylvaneth, which you probably shouldn't based on the Sylvanth fluff). Hoping to see that cleaned up soon.
On the Facebook announcement post of the Vortex Beast and Slaughterbrute, I saw someone comment about the Jabberslythe being perfect for Nurgle and the page owner responded with "Oh, good shout!". We might see that one turn to Nurgle soon.
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I'm not quite sure how big the Slaughterbrute is, but I'll assume that what we want is the 170x105mm base. This one here.
It just barley fits on a 100x50, the front and back feet touching the base are 100mm apart. You could fit it on a base one size smaller (120x92mm), but it will overhang a lot (like it does on the rectangle).
CMLR wrote:
The Mutalith didn't got a massive boost, but still it has always been a pain to fight against.
It's a little better with destiny dice.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Yes! How do we make this happen?
We rush Warhammer World with picks and torches shouting "LONG LIVE PAPA NURGLE! GIVE US OUR JABBERSLYTHE!"
Unlike the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith which had obvious bias towards certain gods, the Jabberslythe and Chimera are more generic monsters of chaos. I would rather see something that gives them (and other chaos monsters like giants) the Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh keyword if it is included in an army with that allegiance. That way armies with generic Chaos allegiance get the un-marked version while they can also be taken in mono-god armies as well (as a reward for mon-god dedication as it were). Perhaps some beasts could be missing certain keywords, like a Jabberslythe lacking the option to gain the Khorne keyword since it isn't really Khorney at all.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Unlike the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith which had obvious bias towards certain gods, the Jabberslythe and Chimera are more generic monsters of chaos. I would rather see something that gives them (and other chaos monsters like giants) the Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh keyword if it is included in an army with that allegiance. That way armies with generic Chaos allegiance get the un-marked version while they can also be taken in mono-god armies as well (as a reward for mon-god dedication as it were). Perhaps some beasts could be missing certain keywords, like a Jabberslythe lacking the option to gain the Khorne keyword since it isn't really Khorney at all.
Yeah I like the idea of giving a few of the more 'generic' monsters the ability to pick some different keywords - i.e. it would be great if Gargants were given the ability to choose from a bunch of different keywords so that most Chaos armies could include one without then having to give up a specific allegiance
EnTyme wrote: I'm already trying to figure out what the best oval base size will be for it (not a fan of square/rectangle bases).
I'm not quite sure how big the Slaughterbrute is, but I'll assume that what we want is the 170x105mm base. This one here.
It just barley fits on a 100x50, the front and back feet touching the base are 100mm apart. You could fit it on a base one size smaller (120x92mm), but it will overhang a lot (like it does on the rectangle).
It dosen't matter if some part hangout a bit. My Carnosaurs' tails hang out a lot. In fact, a whole lot of models on big bases have parts hanging out: the whole Stonehorn face, Mortarchs' abyssals, Terrorgheists and basically any winged model suffer from that.
The point is that a 170mm oval base is just way, way too big for them.
CMLR wrote:
The Mutalith didn't got a massive boost, but still it has always been a pain to fight against.
It's a little better with destiny dice.
Just a little improvement for its survival, which is already strong. You can't use Destiny Dices for ability rolls, which is good because it would be quite absurd to be able to chose which effect apply.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Unlike the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith which had obvious bias towards certain gods, the Jabberslythe and Chimera are more generic monsters of chaos. I would rather see something that gives them (and other chaos monsters like giants) the Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh keyword if it is included in an army with that allegiance. That way armies with generic Chaos allegiance get the un-marked version while they can also be taken in mono-god armies as well (as a reward for mon-god dedication as it were). Perhaps some beasts could be missing certain keywords, like a Jabberslythe lacking the option to gain the Khorne keyword since it isn't really Khorney at all.
Well, I remember that at least the Slaughterbrute could have any mark back in Fantasy, but I agree with you. It would be good to keep some neutral Chaos monsters, and some should be able to take marks optionally, like Slaves to Darkness.
I'd rather see new a new Nurglesque and Slaaneshi plastic monster. The Jabberslythe also was a Beastmen unit, and there are other four Beastmen units that became neutral along the AoS transition. I don't feel like they should give them to more factions.
Speaking of, I want to see if GW will do something with Bray/War Herds; Tzaangors have the Gor keyword, but there have been many pics featuring Nurgle and Khorne maked Bullgors.
All we can do now is wait to see if the DG relelase will bring along some new units for AoS, like plastic Nurlge beasts.
A little bit more expensive than expected but not the worst - the company is a couple of pounds more than hoped, the frigate is a bit more, not horrendous - its a big kit though? I'll definitely be getting these through DarkSphere rather than GW. I hope the other two infantry kits are around £20-25, the IronClad being £80 wouldn't be a surprise at all.
Rough guesstimations, based on price bands:
Arkanaut Company 27.50GBP~= 45USD(I couldn't find anything at a 27.50 GBP price point easily, closest was the Gyrocopter at $45)
Arkanaut Frigate 50GBP=85USD price point(same as a Carnosaur)
Admiral 15GBP=35USD price point(same as a box of Saurus Knights)
Book 25GBP=40USD(I'll be interested to see if there's something I've missed here, but maybe the book is coming out as softback to start with or it's smaller?)
Cards 10GBP=15USD
Was Shadow War not much better priced for conversion? I know it was cheaper than advertised in WD over here, and I do seem to remember it may have been the same in the Colonies?
Was Shadow War not much better priced for conversion? I know it was cheaper than advertised in WD over here, and I do seem to remember it may have been the same in the Colonies?
It was.
Bear in mind, when I post those kinds of things--I'm not going to a currency converter.
I go to the GW site and try to match the price there with a product on the US site.
GW uses "price bands", and you can be pretty spot on provided it's not a weirdly priced product with no close equivalent.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Puts the Skydorf infantry at the same price as the Tzaangors for 10 of 'em. Not horrible.
Not good, either. I was really hoping for less, like the GSC 10 man box. Together with 50 for the medium ship (so probably 30 for the tiny one) that really makes me think more about getting some. High price -> I import instead of using a local store with only 10% off the German price* --> by the time they'd be here the Death Guard kits might be out already and those I probably have to get right away, Euro pricing be damned.
*because current UK prices from discounters are what I feel are still okay for minis,
Kanluwen wrote:
Book 25GBP=40USD(I'll be interested to see if there's something I've missed here, but maybe the book is coming out as softback to start with or it's smaller?)
$40 was the price for the Stormcast, Tzeentch and Khorne hardbacks. Tzeentch was dropped to $25 when it went softback, and I expect the same for Stormcasts and Khorne. Both are decently beefy tomes. That just seems to be the price point GW is aiming for with new tomes.
Binabik15 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Puts the Skydorf infantry at the same price as the Tzaangors for 10 of 'em. Not horrible.
Not good, either. I was really hoping for less, like the GSC 10 man box. Together with 50 for the medium ship (so probably 30 for the tiny one) that really makes me think more about getting some. High price -> I import instead of using a local store with only 10% off the German price* --> by the time they'd be here the Death Guard kits might be out already and those I probably have to get right away, Euro pricing be damned.
*because current UK prices from discounters are what I feel are still okay for minis,
The Arkanauts look to be a bit heftier than the Acolytes, though. They look to me to be on 32mm bases as opposed to the 25mm for the Acolytes.
The following are the USD prices, confirmed from a distributor:
• Arkanaut Admiral $25
• Arkanaught Frigate $80
• Arkanaught Company $45
• Battletome Kahadron Overlords $40
• Warscroll Kahadron overlords $15
An online retailer has listed The General's Handbook as overstock/while supplies last, dunno if that was a stocking error for them or something noteworthy.
They're DORFS, they can't be that big And size isn't that important when it comes to plastics. Ah well, looks like *some* things didn't change for GW.
Getting Arkanauts, balloon dudes, Grundstokk Thunderers, two small ships and a big 'un in one go to build an arctic explorers group will be eye watering. I will see about the DG release date first (oh gods, they'll be twice as much as Blight Kings, right).
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: Wait... the war scrolls aren't free? There goes my plans to start a Flying Spaghetti Monster army... guess I'll go do eldar...
Warscroll cards, physical versions non-attached to the tome of the warscrolls. Warscrolls as always will be free on the webpage. This has been a thing for months and hasn't stopped me from getting the pallador's rules from their site.
EnTyme wrote: He's hoping for GA: Death. Let the speculation and wishlisting begin!
Well it's only for the board game, so my personal bet will be Orks.
Think about it. They have an Order and Chaos force, and they want something iconic for each of the factions. Death doesn't have an iconic subfaction other than maybe FEC, but Ironjawz are really the posterboys for all of Destruction.
I'd like to be pleasantly surprised but I'm expecting to see a force of ~4 Orruks of one sort or another.
Zatsuku wrote: Jokes on us, Shadow Aelves will only be for Underworlds at first. (please no)
WELL that was how it was with the Disciples of Tzeentch.
Pretty much, considering disciples of tzeentch were first featured in the warhammer quest sliver tower. I mean look at the female stormcast soon as people saw her now on facebook people are begging GW for a upgrade set or a small box set I imagine something similar is going to happen if they go this route for the Aelves.
Huh? Vanilla skellies, but in heroic poses? I like them already my favourites being the zweihander skelly, the spear skelly and the scythe skelly in this order. My favourite would've been the rising from the grave one if I could discern if his whole body was there - I'd like him kneeling with one leg still completely flat on the ground dragging behind him and using the sword to lift himself up. Nice poses.
Went on the GW site to check how I would go about getting a Skeleton army and the Skeleton Warriors were -url=https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors]sold out[/url]. Has this been the case for a while or should death people be getting really excited?
mugginz wrote: Went on the GW site to check how I would go about getting a Skeleton army and the Skeleton Warriors were -url=https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors]sold out[/url]. Has this been the case for a while or should death people be getting really excited?
I did the same. They may be getting re-boxed/based (they're still available in the start collecting box).
They are amazing. The best Skeleton sculpts I have ever seen. Cannot wait to add these into my Death Army! I love that they explicitly state they are to the same scale as the existing models.
mugginz wrote: Went on the GW site to check how I would go about getting a Skeleton army and the Skeleton Warriors were -url=https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors]sold out[/url]. Has this been the case for a while or should death people be getting really excited?
Also if you look on the app, a lot of the Tomb King stuff is now listed under Deathrattle. Possibly just because they share the keyword, but who knows what the future brings...
I'm really happy to have been wrong on my prediction. This new Shadespire team looks awesome and I can't wait to pick a box up. I for sure want these guys and the Stormcast.
mugginz wrote: Went on the GW site to check how I would go about getting a Skeleton army and the Skeleton Warriors were -url=https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors]sold out[/url]. Has this been the case for a while or should death people be getting really excited?
They're most likely being reboxed, with an increased number of models per box and with round bases
mugginz wrote: Went on the GW site to check how I would go about getting a Skeleton army and the Skeleton Warriors were -url=https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors]sold out[/url]. Has this been the case for a while or should death people be getting really excited?
Also if you look on the app, a lot of the Tomb King stuff is now listed under Deathrattle. Possibly just because they share the keyword, but who knows what the future brings...
I think that's more for the General's Handbook side of things personally.
Although, I could see Skeleton Archers making an appearance given the way Shadespire is giving the Sepulchral Guard a measure of intellect.
Cataphract wrote: Yeeesssss the stream confirmed there is a Stormcast/Kharadron formation where you can take the Stormcast and still get the Kharadron Allegiance
I'm a little sad that there were no battalions in the Stormcast book including other forces. But I guess it's just to cross promote the posterboys more than anything.
I'm overjoyed to see those Overlord warscrolls. The Arkanaughts look like a competant troops choice. That was a clever way to get the special captain pistols in too.
Don't look only at albums, the video shows more and more stuff, and they have the actual boxes with them. The Ironclad box has to be the biggest Citadel kit to date.
Grundstok Thunderers seem interesting. So from the wording I could equip an entire unit with the Mortars (if I had the parts)? They don't actually seem that destructive with instead lots of ways to do Damage 1, but a unit of 5 Mortars would be nice if only for the range!
Edit - and if they all had Mortars you could double their shots with the Kemist's ability.
Bottle wrote: Grundstok Thunderers seem interesting. So from the wording I could equip an entire unit with the Mortars (if I had the parts)? They don't actually seem that destructive with instead lots of ways to do Damage 1, but a unit of 5 Mortars would be nice if only for the range!
Edit - and if they all had Mortars you could double their shots with the Kemist's ability.
It seems that the issue with all weapon options costing the same will be reoccurring with this unit :(
I'm forseeing a unit of 15 mortars and 2 Khemists dominating the field with 45 shots a turn at 36". Not to mention double-turn potential.
Bottle wrote: Grundstok Thunderers seem interesting. So from the wording I could equip an entire unit with the Mortars (if I had the parts)? They don't actually seem that destructive with instead lots of ways to do Damage 1, but a unit of 5 Mortars would be nice if only for the range!
Edit - and if they all had Mortars you could double their shots with the Kemist's ability.
It seems that the issue with all weapon options costing the same will be reoccurring with this unit :(
I'm forseeing a unit of 15 mortars and 2 Khemists dominating the field with 45 shots a turn at 36". Not to mention double-turn potential.
I imagine there will only be one Mortar in the box which will be enough to curtail it from regular battlefields, but I imagine at tournaments we will see them!
EnTyme wrote: It'll be interesting to see if Nurgle and Slaanesh get their own Monster of Chaos when their armies get updated. I could see a Jabberslythe of Nurgle or a Chimera of Slaanesh being thematic.
Assuming a new Great Unclean One, Nurgle already has it's own 'Monster' in the Glottkin.
That's not a Monster of Chaos, it's a Rottbringer, and a hero. It seems to me that GW is starting to backtrack on splitting the WHFB factions into a thousand subfactions. In the last few months, Tzeentch, Stormcasts, and Khorne have each been combined from 2 subfactions into one. I'm expecting to see this continue. Something about this latest development makes me think the Monsters of Chaos subfaction is getting combined with some of the others. My prediction is that the Brayherds and Warherds will eventually be combined back into Beastmen and take Centigors and Razorgors, and Chaos Warhounds will be moved to Slaves to Darkness. The only monsters from that faction I haven't figured out yet are the Cockatrice and Harpies.
You're overthinking it. All that matters is that its a big 'monster' that's not a Greater Daemon. The Glottkin fits that bill for Nurgle, just like the Slaughterbrute and the Mutalith Vortex Beast do for Khorne and Tzeentch.
I understand what you're saying, Ghaz. It's a Nurgle Monster . It is also a Hero and takes up a leader slot. The Slaughterbrute and Mutalith do not. The Glottkin is a cool model and an excellent addition to a Nurgle list, but it doesn't fill the same niche.
The skellies are nice, if they're a dedicated Shadespire kit it seems we will get small boxes of asingle unit type for it? That's kinda disappointing compared to a Mordheim warband-lite kit with grunts, champion types and ogre equivalent some -including me- were wishlisting. Shadespire continues to intrigue and baffle me. Stormcast use three models, so it seems like a character driven game, but Undead run a skellie swarm, the mooks of all things mook-y? So not that hero hammer-ish after all? Skellies are almost a small warband in numbers, Khorne and Stormcast a handful or less. Do the teams stay at the size and slot out models that GW sells you? Can they be expanded in numbers? Will there be big brutes? Then shouldn't they be in a warband kit, given how GW likely won't do a single monster kit a la BB for each race? I need to know more.
Games Workshop makes some really incredible miniatures, but every once in a while they make one I'm absolutely inspired to pick up and build an entire army for. The reboot of the Dark Eldar was the first time, and I think the Kharadon dwarves will be the second.
BrookM wrote: Holy fething gak, this isn't fantasy, it's cyberpunk!
I have been a bit a worried that this "fantasy" game looks more and more like 40k for every release but I guess there is no need to worry now. This has passed beyond 40k and landed in 1980's Cyberpunk. Really cool but there is nothing fantasy about this picture:
It harkens back to the roots of 40k as WHFB-in-Space. I'd guess there was some desire for crossover with this release as well (i.e. the closest we'll get to squats).
Is this compatible with Warmahordes? Not trolling and I know the rules are different, but now it seems easier to mix the two ranges with "counts as" and not really look out of place now.
Ironically this might get me started buying some Warmahorde or more Hordes minis again and start using them for "count as" for Age of Sigmar when I have time to start playing again.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote:What has happened to my beloved WHFB?!
I'm a huge fan of the old world and I've come to realized that the best thing about it being done away with a a product is that it is a closed thing that won't change from here on out. I just finshed getting the last of the 4th and 5th edition army books and all the 1st and 2nd edition Fantasy Role Play books. So I'm set.
As for Age of Sigmar, I actually really like the mortal realms. I've just been looking into them and everything I've encountered I liked so far. I love the introduction of some art deco vibes and some bladerunner type urban themes. And probably my favorite thing: Instances of normal people doing normal things like commerce or walking in the rain. I've just started reading City of Secrets (a AoS Novel) and have been enjoying it.
BrookM wrote: Holy fething gak, this isn't fantasy, it's cyberpunk!
I have been a bit a worried that this "fantasy" game looks more and more like 40k for every release but I guess there is no need to worry now. This has passed beyond 40k and landed in 1980's Cyberpunk. Really cool but there is nothing fantasy about this picture:
So, who exactly are you to decide what's fantasy and what's not? I'm tired of this so let's remember something: fantasy doesn't equal low tech. Urban fantasy is pretty high-tech by and large and that's fantasy.
Fantasy, by definition, its opposed to Science. Its a world with things that can't be explained, they just are because its a fantasy tale.
Medieval Fantasy and Space Fantasy are both fantasy.
And in the WHFB vs AoS... WHFB as much as I love it, has been closed. Something better to me, than just keep running and changing with no end like Warcraft. This its another totally different universe, that will be better to some people and worse to others. Its just about what do you like more.
It ended 2 years ago. I loved old warhammer but I am happy to see GW really go for something new. AOS really needs to develop its own identity as distinct as 40k. This is a really positive step in that direction. I hope they keep pushing the envelope with upcoming releases.
Galas wrote: Fantasy, by definition, its opposed to Science. Its a world with things that can't be explained, they just are because its a fantasy tale.
Medieval Fantasy and Space Fantasy are both fantasy.
And in the WHFB vs AoS... WHFB as much as I love it, has been closed. Something better to me, than just keep running and changing with no end like Warcraft. This its another totally different universe, that will be better to some people and worse to others. Its just about what do you like more.
What about ShadowRun? There's tech and Magic, no one can explain magic....so it seems to fit both your definitions. What happens when the two genres blend? What do you call that?
Anyone else getting a strong Blade Runner vibe from this?
The rain, the built up city, the sign.
There is a vague similarity, would definitely not say "strong vibe". More to do with being a city in the sky and that it depicts a scene more common in that genre, I think.
Compare to this:
Spoiler:
frozenwastes wrote:Don't start getting hung up on genre definitions. That way lies madness and endless pages of arguing on the internet.
Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
Formosa wrote: Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
So, lets see... These are dwarves, yes. But they arent the old dwarves. They're a separate, sky-dwelling faction. As opposed to mountain-dwelling.
Sort of how "Silverneth" are a seperate faction that used to be a part of the WoodElves/wanderers faction. So, it has evolved. It has definitely changed form. Just because its not a form you like doesnt mean others wont.
I personally would like a small force of them.
Edit: Just relax, to each thier own. You donthave to buy them.
I agree I think in all of the fantasy model ranges I've seen (GW and non-GW) the Kharadron are the most imaginative range I've seen in ages. I hope they get more releases later on down the line. This sort of creativity needs to be applied to 40k now to make a cool new xenos faction, but they'll probably just make 14 different primarch variants per chapter for the next thirty years. And Space marine chapter variations for every 1000 years of time from the heresy to 40k timeline.
Edit
Actually the AoS designers have been hitting it out of the park for awhile. Even though the Beasclaw Raiders are existing models the paint job they did was phenomenal and made me want some. I also like the Ironjaws models and want a Maw Krusha.
Formosa wrote: Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
Yeah, I'm not going to jump down your throat just point out that's your opinion that you veiledly try to pass as fact.
Formosa wrote: Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
So, lets see... These are dwarves, yes. But they arent the old dwarves. They're a separate, sky-dwelling faction. As opposed to mountain-dwelling.
Sort of how "Silverneth" are a seperate faction that used to be a part of the WoodElves/wanderers faction. So, it has evolved. It has definitely changed form. Just because its not a form you like doesnt mean others wont.
I personally would like a small force of them.
Edit: Just relax, to each thier own. You donthave to buy them.
That's fluff, I don't care about that at the moment, I am looking at the models, they look ridiculous, the giant metal balloon one with the monacle and golden hat.... jesus....
objectively the sculpts are well done, but the whole release just looks so bad.
and I am posting this for the exact reason you have stated, just because some like it, doesn't mean that everyone does, I do not.
Formosa wrote: Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
So, lets see... These are dwarves, yes. But they arent the old dwarves. They're a separate, sky-dwelling faction. As opposed to mountain-dwelling.
Sort of how "Silverneth" are a seperate faction that used to be a part of the WoodElves/wanderers faction. So, it has evolved. It has definitely changed form. Just because its not a form you like doesnt mean others wont.
I personally would like a small force of them.
Edit: Just relax, to each thier own. You donthave to buy them.
That's fluff, I don't care about that at the moment, I am looking at the models, they look ridiculous, the giant metal balloon one with the monacle and golden hat.... jesus....
objectively the sculpts are well done, but the whole release just looks so bad.
and I am posting this for the exact reason you have stated, just because some like it, doesn't mean that everyone does, I do not.
Thats cool man. I disagree though, especially on the Top-Hatted Lord. He's hilarous and embodies the range, which takes its design and ideas from the fluff and represents it so well.
I see them appearing slighty out of sync with thebold dwarf range, but they would still fit the general aesthetic well.
With the new AoS releases, the fluff is starting to influence th art and models more. I really like that direction.
Formosa wrote: Well GW, that's now 2 Dwarf armies you have released and this avid dwarf fan thinks they are both awful to look at, ridiculous models and very childish looking, and before you white knights try to jump down my neck, I like AOS, I have a silverneth army, but this release just looks so bloody awful, so its not "evolution" or "its got better" this part of the faction has gotten stupid and ridiculous, which for a fantasy army is quite an achievement of its own.
So, lets see... These are dwarves, yes. But they arent the old dwarves. They're a separate, sky-dwelling faction. As opposed to mountain-dwelling.
Sort of how "Silverneth" are a seperate faction that used to be a part of the WoodElves/wanderers faction. So, it has evolved. It has definitely changed form. Just because its not a form you like doesnt mean others wont.
I personally would like a small force of them.
Edit: Just relax, to each thier own. You donthave to buy them.
That's fluff, I don't care about that at the moment, I am looking at the models, they look ridiculous, the giant metal balloon one with the monacle and golden hat.... jesus....
objectively the sculpts are well done, but the whole release just looks so bad.
and I am posting this for the exact reason you have stated, just because some like it, doesn't mean that everyone does, I do not.
Thats cool man. I disagree though, especially on the Top-Hatted Lord. He's hilarous and embodies the range, which takes its design and ideas from the fluff and represents it so well.
I see them appearing slighty out of sync with thebold dwarf range, but they would still fit the general aesthetic well.
With the new AoS releases, the fluff is starting to influence th art and models more. I really like that direction.
I agree with you on that, fluff influencing art and models is much better than the other way around.
I'm looking forward to stories of how the dispossessed Duardin view their newfound cousins.
I know there's already a opinion by them that flying dwarfs are lunatics (can't really blame them for that view) but will the Overlord's non-traditional views be in effect? Will the Duardin of the holds view them as "reclaimed"?
What you're seeing (and will continue to see) is simply a result of the change of direction GW decided to go with. Rewind 10-15 years and the Warhammer Fantasy world was a good bit more sword and sorcery (even moreso 20-30 years ago). It's now its completely own thing, but something completely detached from the more classical fantasy settings (i.e. Tolkein, Dungeons and Dragons, etc.). The same setting in which you find games like Hero Quest (had some GW backing), Battlemasters (also GW) etc. White Dwarf itself used to carry D&D adventures etc. It was a much more common setting.
Keep in mind that when Warhammer Fantasy came about it was the middle of the D&D craze and yes the old LOTR/Hobbit stuff was popular, etc. Very much a classical fantasy setting. It included some oddball stuff, but the general aesthetic was more classical than not. Slowly but surely more silliness was added and GW inevitable scale-creep exploded with plastic kits in the mid 2000's.
AoS is now completely unrecognizable to classic Warhammer Fantasy players (and there were a lot of those). The game didn't "get better" or "get an upgrade" it just changed whole sale. On the modern AoS tabletop what room is there for a rank n' file Empire spearman?
I don't play Warhammer Fantasy but I loved the old setting, and not one of my fellow 14 gamers now plays AoS. It's not a slight against the rules - I hear they're quite good, but the setting does not interest any of us. That's not a bad thing, just unfortunate that people who loved the setting/aesthetic will no longer be buying new products. If you like the new AoS stuff - good, go nuts. For a lot of people it's like imagining Peter Jackson throwing a steam-powered dreadnought into the middle of a Lord of the Rings film. It doesn't endear them to the setting.
It's not hard to see why someone who likes the models on top, may not love the models on the bottom.
Personally I think they look attractive, but I'd never use them in a fantasy setting. I'd even be tempted to make a small squat force for 40K out of them.
Galas wrote: Fantasy, by definition, its opposed to Science. Its a world with things that can't be explained, they just are because its a fantasy tale.
Medieval Fantasy and Space Fantasy are both fantasy.
And in the WHFB vs AoS... WHFB as much as I love it, has been closed. Something better to me, than just keep running and changing with no end like Warcraft. This its another totally different universe, that will be better to some people and worse to others. Its just about what do you like more.
What about ShadowRun? There's tech and Magic, no one can explain magic....so it seems to fit both your definitions. What happens when the two genres blend? What do you call that?
From Wikipedia:
"Shadowrun is a science fantasy tabletop role-playing game set in a near-future fictional universe in which cybernetics, magic and fantasy creatures co-exist."
WTF... that just looks like artwork for perverts, now I remember why I avoid anime. Besides it is far too clean and bright for the tone that Blade Runner was setting.
Moving on.
The new artwork does have an wonderful sense of scale and grandiose, which now I think about it is what GW seem to have been aiming for with AoS artwork. It is fantasy, but on a whole different level to what they have done before.
I think these are going to sell like proverbial hot cakes. I will admit to being tempted... very tempted, and I'm in the stages of disengaging with the hobby.
BrookM wrote: Holy fething gak, this isn't fantasy, it's cyberpunk!
I have been a bit a worried that this "fantasy" game looks more and more like 40k for every release but I guess there is no need to worry now. This has passed beyond 40k and landed in 1980's Cyberpunk. Really cool but there is nothing fantasy about this picture:
Spoiler:
So, who exactly are you to decide what's fantasy and what's not? I'm tired of this so let's remember something: fantasy doesn't equal low tech. Urban fantasy is pretty high-tech by and large and that's fantasy.
Same question to you.
On the other hand, for all I like the picture, it feels like it needs a sign post with "Infinity to the left, Star Wars Cantina to the right".
On the modern AoS tabletop what room is there for a rank n' file Empire spearman?
Lots of room considering they have rules and their 2" attack range is great for defending and supporting shorter ranged units like swordsmen.
They're also necessary fluff-wise for regular human town defenses and what-not.
I think the problem here is that people are looking at the Overlords and thinking they represent the entire setting when they're only a pinprick of what's going on in the realms.
Those dwarf spearmen can even fit as regular dispossessed dwarf units guarding old holds, newly made ones, guardsmen of a mixed race city or just merchant guards.
Heck, you could put them on the Overlord ships and you can head-canon it as a mercenary vessel made by stranded Overlords and had to use parts on hand, duardin mercs and damaged ship parts to get airborne again.
I get what you mean by it not being classic fantasy anymore but the setting's so massive that classic fantasy can easily fit into it without running into any epic or steampunk elements unless so wished.
I think the problem here is that people are looking at the Overlords and thinking they represent the entire setting when they're only a pinprick of what's going on in the realms.
There is a massive tech disparity. These dwarfs have been hidden away for so long and only survive as they do because of their precious aether-gold.
I get what you mean by it not being classic fantasy anymore but the setting's so massive that classic fantasy can easily fit into it without running into any epic or steampunk elements unless so wished.
Another perk of the setting being so massive is that I can choose to not even aknowledge the existence of the new dorfs and the vanguard chamber . Personal preference and all that in mind, I was beginning to worry that somehow I was the only freak that didn't like them.
Indeed, it's only thanks to the realm of metal and it's easily accessible and abundant materials that they're so advanced.
If they set up shop in a place like the life realm they'd have a massive down-grade as the materials are scarce and they'd have no readily available aether-gold. If they had no trade with the metal realm I highly suspect they'd turn Dispossessed very quickly.
Personal preference and all that in mind, I was beginning to worry that somehow I was the only freak that didn't like them.
Perfectly understandable. That's why I love the new setting so much, anything's possible and you control the limits.
I like the WHFB setting for what it is, and I like the AoS setting for what it is. Part of that is I don't see them as the same setting; AoS is a continuation of WHFB story wise but is a completely different part of the timeline. I see a lot of people who liked WHFB and don't like the AoS setting and I completely understand that; they are different. Saying one is better than the other is completely subjective, its up to each person to decide. I remember when AoS first came out saying 'I'm a bit angry that GW crapped all over the WHFB setting but I'll get over it' and that holds true. I would recommend for people who don't like AoS to at least think of it as a setting of its own rather than the current state of the WHFB setting.
I think the realms just make all the factions more cohesive in AoS as opposed to WHFB. I honestly couldn't understand how GW orks inhabited the same continent as Bela Lugosi style vampires. It just didn't mesh for me, and it seemed like it was just trying to copy DnD/lord of the rings. You really couldn't have dwarves like these, heck even one of those sky whales would look ridiculous next to ye olden medieval castle.
I get that its more like World of Warcraft and less like Mount and Blade, but that works for me. To each their own I guess.
Slightly off topic, but for those who have a strong distaste of these new style Dwarfs, there are still companies out there releasing more traditional looking dwarfs, in plastic no less.
Northstar miniatures (of Frostgrave fame) are set to release new rank and file dwarfs themselves.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Maybe that's more the style some of you would like to see?
More guns, monocles, balloons, and airships for me please.
Elbows wrote:It's not hard to see why someone who likes the models on top, may not love the models on the bottom.
Spoiler:
Personally I think they look attractive, but I'd never use them in a fantasy setting. I'd even be tempted to make a small squat force for 40K out of them.
I like the top and the bottom. The old figures have a charm all their own and the new ones are just excellent. The art style of these is a nice departure from the cliche.
My favorite single element are the flotation spheres. Goes back to Cavor's sphere in H G Well's The First Men in the Moon.
Hehe, I don't know why but dwarves with regular bows always makes me chuckle.
heck even one of those sky whales would look ridiculous next to ye olden medieval castle.
Hey, it works for Legend of Zelda.
Thinking about it further, I might make that heraldry for some of my knights, actually. Make it so they built their kingdom around the remains of dead ones whose giant bones caused natural barriers to form.
Lelf, the admiral has look out sir! as a special rule. Of course, it has more risk attached to it, only working on a 5+ and causing mortal wounds if successful.
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
As a newbie to age of sigmar rules how do the carbines and valves determine their attacks? Also what/how do I use the damage table chart. They have confirmed that the three ships have been separate kits for ages.
The Arkanaut Box only comes with 1 of every 3 types of special weapons, so if you want 3 Skypike for example, you need to look for bitz online, conversions or buy... 3 boxes... me don't like.
Gamgee wrote: As a newbie to age of sigmar rules how do the carbines and valves determine their attacks? Also what/how do I use the damage table chart.
You look at how many wounds the Frigate has taken, then you consult that line on the Damage Table to determine how fast the Frigate can move, and how many attacks you can make with the carbines and belaying valves.
Galas wrote: The Arkanaut Box only comes with 1 of every 3 types of special weapons, so if you want 3 Skypike for example, you need to look for bitz online, conversions or buy... 3 boxes... me don't like.
Kits like this are inconvenient, but having enough to fully equip the unit with any weapon type would mean paying for a lot of bits that go unused.
One way or another we are gonna pay those bits (If we don't convert, obvious). I prefer to pay 3-4 more € for all the options that needing to go to a Bitz reseller, or buying a new whole box.
Galas wrote: The Arkanaut Box only comes with 1 of every 3 types of special weapons, so if you want 3 Skypike for example, you need to look for bitz online, conversions or buy... 3 boxes... me don't like.
Kits like this are inconvenient, but having enough to fully equip the unit with any weapon type would mean paying for a lot of bits that go unused.
Looks like you may be able to get some skypikes and volley guns from the Skyriggers kit.
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
War Of Sigmar - Rumors and rules for age of Sigmar
Done.
Um, those links aren't working for me. So incase I'm not the only mobile user getting left out here's the links again:
Formations.
(Hehehe Iron Sky)Gives Reroll to charge and extra shooting first turn, with the right command ability you can run and shoot first turn with 1 extra shoot per weapons.
Spoiler:
Gives a bonus to focus firing. (?)
Transforms a one per battle power into one per turn (?)
Gives shield guard to heroes near the company (?)
What we all care about. Points
Part two of massive glorious image dump.
More art. Uniforms and Heavy Metal stuff.
Spoiler:
Model pics.
Spoiler:
Whew. This took frigging ages. Source: the above War Of Sigmar links.
Galas wrote: One way or another we are gonna pay those bits (If we don't convert, obvious). I prefer to pay 3-4 more € for all the options that needing to go to a Bitz reseller, or buying a new whole box.
Only if every unit maxes out on the same weapon. If you have, say, two units using different special weapons then now you are paying for two extra bits instead of twelve.
Bottle wrote: Grundstok Thunderers seem interesting. So from the wording I could equip an entire unit with the Mortars (if I had the parts)? They don't actually seem that destructive with instead lots of ways to do Damage 1, but a unit of 5 Mortars would be nice if only for the range!
Edit - and if they all had Mortars you could double their shots with the Kemist's ability.
It seems that the issue with all weapon options costing the same will be reoccurring with this unit :(
I'm forseeing a unit of 15 mortars and 2 Khemists dominating the field with 45 shots a turn at 36". Not to mention double-turn potential.
I imagine there will only be one Mortar in the box which will be enough to curtail it from regular battlefields, but I imagine at tournaments we will see them!
After seeing the costs I think it's safe to say that yeah, barring something even worse this will show up at tourneys. 600 points to throw out 60 shots a turn at 36", an average of 20 wounds against a 4+ save means all the enemy heroes can be sniped out easily in just a few turns. Easy to fit into any Order army as well.
Galas wrote: One way or another we are gonna pay those bits (If we don't convert, obvious). I prefer to pay 3-4 more € for all the options that needing to go to a Bitz reseller, or buying a new whole box.
Only if every unit maxes out on the same weapon. If you have, say, two units using different special weapons then now you are paying for two extra bits instead of twelve.
Actually you can pick 3 special weapons for every 10. What you say would be right if it where 2 special weapons for every 10 dwarfs. So maybe two of every special weapon per box will be a better compromise... but well, its a little late to change it
Gamgee wrote: That mask reminds me of Pan's Labyrinth for some reason.
Edit
So what is the verdict on the Kharadron? OP? Balanced? Need buffs?
Assessing what we have so far (which is not everything, so take with salt) I'm seeing the same thing as the last three battletomes; decent balance overall that is unlikely to be a problem in casual games, but a few things that fell through the cracks which will keep the tournament scene at 'cheese' level for the foreseeable future.
I can't wait to see what tips and stuff Duncan has in store for us. I don't have the money to plunge into this army right now, but I might get the book just for the fluff and art. I want to see how those shadow aelves turn out before I commit 100% to another army.
Galas wrote: The Arkanaut Box only comes with 1 of every 3 types of special weapons, so if you want 3 Skypike for example, you need to look for bitz online, conversions or buy... 3 boxes... me don't like.
You don't like that you can't take 3 of the same one or that you have to put in extra work for the cheese?
Galas wrote: One way or another we are gonna pay those bits (If we don't convert, obvious). I prefer to pay 3-4 more € for all the options that needing to go to a Bitz reseller, or buying a new whole box.
Only if every unit maxes out on the same weapon. If you have, say, two units using different special weapons then now you are paying for two extra bits instead of twelve.
Actually you can pick 3 special weapons for every 10. What you say would be right if it where 2 special weapons for every 10 dwarfs. So maybe two of every special weapon per box will be a better compromise... but well, its a little late to change it
3 per ten, two units using different special weapons, each kit has one special weapon that goes to the other kit. At any rate, yes, two would be a nice compromise. Or just writing the warscroll to have the special weapon be 2 per 10.
Gamgee wrote: That mask reminds me of Pan's Labyrinth for some reason.
Edit
So what is the verdict on the Kharadron? OP? Balanced? Need buffs?
After 30 seconds of release, no book in people's hands? I take it you are joking
When you have a lot of experience it actually isn't too hard to get a rough evaluation by looking at the warscrolls and the point costs, at least when determining outlying elements that are particularly good or bad.
A but since you did not cite the infraction in the presence of triplicated third parties on both sides and bring the book to the deck of my vessel there is no way to know that there was in fact any breach of code. Even once this is done I'll need to take it to my nearest port to have signed in triplicate by the authorities. My port being notorious for delays in paperwork it is not unheard of for the paperwork to simply never make it to where it needs to be.
Gamgee wrote: That mask reminds me of Pan's Labyrinth for some reason.
Edit
So what is the verdict on the Kharadron? OP? Balanced? Need buffs?
They look really weak to me. Zero ways to deal Mortal Wounds so far. How would they even consider taking down a unit of Fulminators with their 1+ re-rollable saves in the shooting phase, or Sylvaneth Treelords with Oaken Armour?
The ships all remind me of the Steamtank - lots of wounds but the damage output relying on a single 1 shot cannon that will only hit in half your turns. I know from experience how unreliable the Steamtank is.
But saying that, a unit of Grundstock Thunderers all with Mortars backed-up by a Khemist in a mixed Order Army near a Hurricanum and maybe a Loremaster is going to be absolute filth.
Gamgee wrote: That mask reminds me of Pan's Labyrinth for some reason.
Edit
So what is the verdict on the Kharadron? OP? Balanced? Need buffs?
They look really weak to me. Zero ways to deal Mortal Wounds so far. How would they even consider taking down a unit of Fulminators with their 1+ re-rollable saves in the shooting phase, or Sylvaneth Treelords with Oaken Armour?
The ships all remind me of the Steamtank - lots of wounds but the damage output relying on a single 1 shot cannon that will only hit in half your turns. I know from experience how unreliable the Steamtank is.
But saying that, a unit of Grundstock Thunderers all with Mortars backed-up by a Khemist in a mixed Order Army near a Hurricanum and maybe a Loremaster is going to be absolute filth.
I think the supremacy mine does d6 mortal wounds and I'm pretty sure there were one or two other things mentioned but it definitely is quite limited it seems [not that I know what I'm talking about- trying to get my head round AoS at the moment!].
Gamgee wrote: A but since you did not cite the infraction in the presence of triplicated third parties on both sides and bring the book to the deck of my vessel there is no way to know that there was in fact any breach of code. Even once this is done I'll need to take it to my nearest port to have signed in triplicate by the authorities. My port being notorious for delays in paperwork it is not unheard of for the paperwork to simply never make it to where it needs to be.
Note to self: never hire Gamgee as a privateer, victories will result in getting loopholed into pyrrhic status.
. I believe the latter are part of the Ironweld Arsenal.
