Thing is... if there isn't a leveling/persistence mechanic, nor an open/ongoing campaign mechanic.... why offer additional classes, etc?
I feel like their value, and the game's longevity also hinges on those kinds of systems. Treasure cards have that much more value if I want to increase diversity ten+ games in.... but if the game is "play exactly these nine scenarios and then you're done", I don't know how excited I will remain.
Sorry, so the WHQ core game is coming with those 4 extra hero cards, and then in a few weeks the models for those extra hero cards will be made available? Am I understanding that correctly?
Or are those hero models available now, but will be an offical "box set" in a few weeks?
Because I saw in some leaks they have rules for screamers and flamers, which can be purchased now. So that would make sense.
After speaking with my FLGS here is some info on the game from the sales rep.
- The designer was apart of the WHQ community. He tried to keep it close to the original.
- The holographic cards come with store orders around $3000. So good luck getting those.
- The game has 4 extra hero cards. The models are available individually but will drop in a few weeks as a boxed set. Price point was not given.
I am assuming that the 'store orders around $3000' is for a single order that includes WQ:ST will get some of the holographic cards included in their order.
I was told that if my FLGS ordered 20 copies, they got the swag. When I inquired further, I was told that the swag was extremely limited (ie. the launch pack only comes with 5 foil cards for the entire store).
Chopxsticks wrote: Sorry, so the WHQ core game is coming with those 4 extra hero cards, and then in a few weeks the models for those extra hero cards will be made available? Am I understanding that correctly?
Or are those hero models available now, but will be an offical "box set" in a few weeks?
Because I saw in some leaks they have rules for screamers and flamers, which can be purchased now. So that would make sense.
My guess is that there will be a box set of existing models like the recent box with the three space marine heroes. I would love it if this was a mini expandion with a selection of skill and treasure cards.
There is a lot of potential for the future of this game if additional content is handled right.
This looks cool! Not sure if I would get it for the actual game but it has a ton of nice looking models! For $150 (USD I'm assuming?) Seems like a good way to break up my painting and get some nice hero models! Plus new skaven model....dang tempting
Our FLGS ordered around 8 sets of WQST and first 5 people get foil cards, so that's 25 foils right there.
They were told if they sell 20 in total, they get another 5 sets of foils, so 25 more.
As for the 4 extra heroes, the box set that's coming is ones already released currently for AOS but bundled for a discount if you buy that box. Hence the purpose of the WQST App. The app lets you buy the cards, so its useful if you have the models already and don't want to buy the hero box set. Where as in my case I have no AOS so ill buy the bundle and save some $
My local comic stores went under new management and the former nerd-vanas they were have become bare-bones online shops with tables in them. No more wall-to-wall comics and tabletop games anymore...
If there's a bundle of 40 that are then also sold separately the only difference is the option to buy individual ones if you want
Somehow this is a bad thing apparently?
Exactly this. However, the difference between an extra option and exploitative microtransactions comes down to price. $10 for a pack of 40 cards, with the option to instead buy individual cards at $0.50 and its great. $50 for a pack of 40 cards with the option to buy individually at $2.00 and its something completely different..
And also, you know, the completely different format that has different legal ramifications.
If I buy an expansion pack of cards they are mine for the rest of my life if I take care of them. If I buy a "bundle deal" of e-cards on an app then I own nothing, I have rented a license to use those cards for however long GW decides I can, and they could reach into my device a year down the line and delete all of those cards if they wanted to.
Not to mention they might decide a particular card is overpowered and nerf it; with physical cards I can decide if I like the new version of the card and choose whether or not to use it, but with an app GW can just change the card and your choices are like it or lump it.
Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. I play alot of online card games. I'll use Hearthstone as an example. sure they can change cards, nurf or buff, but you get it that instant. I dont need to buy new cards to get those game changes, good or bad I suppose.
Ive also never heard of a company just deleting all of someones data because they can. Im pretty sure in most countries they have laws over digital stuff. Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the new realm of battle boards seem to have new scenery too (painted blue). I don't like the colour, but painted up as stone they could be cool!
Automatically Appended Next Post: With the Micro Transactions, I played over 90+ hours of the WHQ app (completed on hardcore!) - I bought lots of IAPs, but there was definitely a difference between some that seemed "worth it" and some that didn't. I bought all the new characters, all the new tiles and maps and monsters - I never bought any of the legendary equipment and never bought any of the hardcore "lives" (earn your equipment and when you die you roll a new character!)
All of it was digital, but not all seemed "worth it". I think the app will walk this line, but hopefully GW doesn't get too greedy with the pricing or on what's available.
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. I play alot of online card games. I'll use Hearthstone as an example. sure they can change cards, nurf or buff, but you get it that instant. I dont need to buy new cards to get those game changes, good or bad I suppose.
Ive also never heard of a company just deleting all of someones data because they can. Im pretty sure in most countries they have laws over digital stuff. Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
Tell that to all the computer or video games that can no longer be played since they require online servers that's now been shut down. And the company shuts down any fan-hosted servers created to enable people to continue playing the game.
Presumably GW won't delete any cards from your existing phone/tablet but don't count on being able to access them in a few years with your new device.
I can't wait for the individual models to start hitting eBay. I really want that Knight Questor. He looks quite nice. I could see using him as a Liberator Prime, but I already have two of those. Still pretty awesome.
Stormonu wrote: The old game had individual minis that you could buy (like "Human Gladiator"), and it was not until recently that I learned they came with anything more than the mini. I never bought into them because I thought the idea was nothing more than a money grab. They used a different term back then, but to me they were the same sort of nickel-and-diming.
Except, by your own admission, they weren't nickel-and-diming you, because they weren't just minis, but full character packs with mini, rules, counters, cards and so on.
Stormonu wrote: My point though is that they sold add-ons back in the day, they sold many of the same add-ons for the recent iPad app and it's assured they'll do it for this new game - and to my wallet, it will be overpriced; too much for too little.
To which again I say, there's a difference between buying a 40-card treasure pack and having to buy extra rules for your guys at 99c a pop.
Stormonu wrote: The old game had individual minis that you could buy (like "Human Gladiator"), and it was not until recently that I learned they came with anything more than the mini. I never bought into them because I thought the idea was nothing more than a money grab. They used a different term back then, but to me they were the same sort of nickel-and-diming.
Except, by your own admission, they weren't nickel-and-diming you, because they weren't just minis, but full character packs with mini, rules, counters, cards and so on.
Stormonu wrote: My point though is that they sold add-ons back in the day, they sold many of the same add-ons for the recent iPad app and it's assured they'll do it for this new game - and to my wallet, it will be overpriced; too much for too little.
To which again I say, there's a difference between buying a 40-card treasure pack and having to buy extra rules for your guys at 99c a pop.
With more info and pics I'm LESS likely to buy it, not more :/
Minis wise I'm only loving the ogre, the gors, the cultists and the horrors and ONE set of familiars. With such distinct designs clones for them are rather disappointing, because way to obvious. Well, Skaven and barb are nice as well, I have lots of those though.
Tiles look weird, but not in a great way. Gameplay is still a wild card.
Maybe I should buy some start collecting set instead, because this might be basically the same for me, but twice as expensive
Why no Tzeentch warriors? Something better than those goblins? Do we need each familiar twice?
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. .... Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
I see you've met Yodhrin. Welcome to DakkaDakka.
He is not wrong though. ever played an mmo that is now defunct?. it's the same. I have bought about 4 packs of cards for HS but Im also aware one day its going to go.
As said im only keeping the beastmen n ogre. if the other heroes are cool that may appear i may get one but i honestly doubt it. i don't like the male witch elf or the faceless wizard thing, the others are very meh. i might keep the sorcerer but probably not.
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. I play alot of online card games. I'll use Hearthstone as an example. sure they can change cards, nurf or buff, but you get it that instant. I dont need to buy new cards to get those game changes, good or bad I suppose.
Ive also never heard of a company just deleting all of someones data because they can. Im pretty sure in most countries they have laws over digital stuff. Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
Tell that to all the computer or video games that can no longer be played since they require online servers that's now been shut down. And the company shuts down any fan-hosted servers created to enable people to continue playing the game.
Presumably GW won't delete any cards from your existing phone/tablet but don't count on being able to access them in a few years with your new device.
Stormonu wrote: The old game had individual minis that you could buy (like "Human Gladiator"), and it was not until recently that I learned they came with anything more than the mini. I never bought into them because I thought the idea was nothing more than a money grab. They used a different term back then, but to me they were the same sort of nickel-and-diming.
Except, by your own admission, they weren't nickel-and-diming you, because they weren't just minis, but full character packs with mini, rules, counters, cards and so on.
Stormonu wrote: My point though is that they sold add-ons back in the day, they sold many of the same add-ons for the recent iPad app and it's assured they'll do it for this new game - and to my wallet, it will be overpriced; too much for too little.
To which again I say, there's a difference between buying a 40-card treasure pack and having to buy extra rules for your guys at 99c a pop.
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. I play alot of online card games. I'll use Hearthstone as an example. sure they can change cards, nurf or buff, but you get it that instant. I dont need to buy new cards to get those game changes, good or bad I suppose.
Which is rather the point.
To illustrate; I have the original Mordheim rulebook in physical format, I have the digital PDF "living rulebook" from before the downfall of Specialist Games, and I have a fan rewrite of the system. I also have the various add-ons and annuals as PDFs or as physical magazines. I can choose to play "classic" Mordheim with no changes, I can choose to play LRB Mordheim with house rules, I can decide whether or not to include the rules committee changes, whatever I like. Now picture a world in which GW released Mordheim now, today, in the form of a digital "app" rulebook, with in-app purchases for new warband lists and new items & events to add to the aftergame sequence - I have lost all control over my experience. If they decide to change the stats of a weapon, or the wording of a special rule, or to roll up the two separate Orc & Goblin warbands they had released into a single list that removed a ton of options, there would be nothing I as the customer could do, as I have no right to the original version of the data, it was never mine in the first place I only ever bought a license to use it at the company's discretion and in the manner they decide I could.
Ive also never heard of a company just deleting all of someones data because they can. Im pretty sure in most countries they have laws over digital stuff. Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
Really? You've never heard of game developers shutting off their online authentication and then never providing a fix? You've never heard of them killing vital infrastructure elements of multiplayer games without providing an alternative? Christ on a bike man, Apple are currently embroiled in a huge steaming mess with customers over their Apple Music service that reaches into your computer and irretrievably deletes your entire on-disk music collection in return for giving you access to cloud-based versions of the music(versions they choose, meaning you might get Radio Edits rather than Explicit versions or they might swap a rare live acoustic version for the basic pre-recorded release track), and it does this even during the free trial. If you want to pretend this kind of stuff isn't happening right now that's up to you, but it is, and given GW's track record I think anyone willing to give them that much control over how you use their products is being naive.
I like physical products. I like self-contained DRM-free digital products that I can control and copy as I see fit. I do not like renting access to an app that remains entirely under the power of the company that made it because it is a quantifiable and demonstrable reduction in my consumer rights(from owned product to software license).
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. I play alot of online card games. I'll use Hearthstone as an example. sure they can change cards, nurf or buff, but you get it that instant. I dont need to buy new cards to get those game changes, good or bad I suppose.
Ive also never heard of a company just deleting all of someones data because they can. Im pretty sure in most countries they have laws over digital stuff. Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
Tell that to all the computer or video games that can no longer be played since they require online servers that's now been shut down. And the company shuts down any fan-hosted servers created to enable people to continue playing the game.
Presumably GW won't delete any cards from your existing phone/tablet but don't count on being able to access them in a few years with your new device.
Stormonu wrote: The old game had individual minis that you could buy (like "Human Gladiator"), and it was not until recently that I learned they came with anything more than the mini. I never bought into them because I thought the idea was nothing more than a money grab. They used a different term back then, but to me they were the same sort of nickel-and-diming.
Except, by your own admission, they weren't nickel-and-diming you, because they weren't just minis, but full character packs with mini, rules, counters, cards and so on.
Stormonu wrote: My point though is that they sold add-ons back in the day, they sold many of the same add-ons for the recent iPad app and it's assured they'll do it for this new game - and to my wallet, it will be overpriced; too much for too little.
To which again I say, there's a difference between buying a 40-card treasure pack and having to buy extra rules for your guys at 99c a pop.
To be fair it's still damn annoying what happened to that guys music, but it does appear to have been an error....then again it could be that Apple realised this was a massive PR failure and are rolling back their evil slightly to appease the masses.
As for games losing playability and stuff, I guess that's completely possible, as others have said there are plenty of online games that have completely lost support. So I don't think it's over the top to suggest that GW could one day pull support for the app. Everything depends on how the app will work, and where exactly the data is stored. If the data is stored in the AppStore or google play for example, there should be no issue. If it's stored in GW servers then once support is pulled then the app will become less useful.
But essentially the premise that we are all at the mercy of whoever we get our data from in the online world is a valid one.
If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Chikout wrote: If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Yeah, there are definitely ways around it should it become an issue. I'm really looking forward to trying out the game.
Chikout wrote: If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Yeah, there are definitely ways around it should it become an issue. I'm really looking forward to trying out the game.
even if you have these screenshots it depends on the device and the resolution doesn't it ?
You dont see a problem with dlc for a board game fine, but its a stupid, stupid thing in my opinion. if they wanted add on's sell them. its not like fallout 4. dlc. this is like Star wars galaxies that you bought expansions for and is now worthless.
having fan made content is good and fun but, but, it still doesnt' invalidate the fact that the digital content is under GW's if we feel like it banner. they camn pull it any time they want, its not like a pdf its paying for smoke.
It's not a limited product however the first people to buy it get the shiny foil cards and I have a feeling the 4 extra character cards might only avvailable in the first print run (don't quote me on that though), a bit like the limited edition of Dark Vengeance that came out.
Apparently there's also a limited "deluxe" version where the contents are made of different material.
Agreed, thanks Red and the posters of that review. Nearly as good as having the box in hand. Am very excited by this now...all we need are some play throughs to appear.
Thanks for that link. The Adventure cards look interesting. Slightly more detail than the old Dungeon cards. I'm intrigued to see what those actually say and what the icons mean on some of them
Not quite *everything*. I still want to know about character advancement and campaign play
A very rough translation of one of those visible Adventure cards (El Bibliotecario)
Title: The Librarian
Bold text: Read passage 76 - This looks to be related to the Adventure book as one WD snippet did mention there being adventure bits included in there.
Additional text: The Librarian is a Pink horror with vigor 8 instead of 4. Other Pink Horrors do not need to make a separate roll on the behavior table. Add 1 Damage value at each of its attacks.
So it looks like this card sets up a boss encounter, by modifying the base Horror and giving it a leadership role by modifying the behavior of other horrors.
It also looks like you may need to set up some additional tokens/terrain on the board; or it is just marking off which items are impassable in this setup with the red borders?
endtransmission wrote: Thanks for that link. The Adventure cards look interesting. Slightly more detail than the old Dungeon cards. I'm intrigued to see what those actually say and what the icons mean on some of them
Well, I can tell you what some of them say:
Adventure card - The Librarian
Read paragraph 76.
The librarian is a pink horror with Vigour 8 instead of 4. He acts at the same time as other Pink Horrors, don't roll separately on the action table. Add 1 to the damage of each of his weapons/attacks (the word is covered). (at the bottom it seems to say that he doesn't split into Blue Horrors)
Event card - Eye of Destiny
Precognition 2+
Put a Befuddlement (???) marker on this card until the end of the turn. While it is there, you may re-roll saving throws of 1. If your hero is Celestial, other heroes in the same room can do the same.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Knight-Questor
Guard position (3+). Put the hero dice here (on the card) until the end of turn. While it's there, your save is 3+ instead of 4+.
Challenge (2+). Choose an opponent and move him 3 squares [...] you waste a hero dice if you roll 4+ [...] enemy in its place.
Traits: The Knight-Questor is Celestial and Imp...
Renown: For each saving throw of 6, gain 1 Renown.
I'm pretty sure it just says that he doesn't need to roll separately from other horrors for his actions, not that he influences other horrors.
Quite probably, my spanish is limited to Google's translation services Either way, one roll for all pink horrors on the board makes sense
I'm wondering if some adventures will suggest removing some cards so you don't have (for example) a librarian on every floor of the tower. While it is very flavoursome (and I like that), it does limit usage within other campaigns somewhat (not that the floor tiles didn't already do that).
Hrm.. well in it for the models, since I like them all. Hope the game is fun as well.. Was expecting more game tiles, but thats definitely something that can be expanded on in future releases I would think.
I'm more curious than anything, about the "expansion" box of four bundled heroes. I think hearing about it will be VERY telling. If, for instance, they come with non-hologram cards included, we'll find it likely that GW will be making print/physical versions of what otherwise might be exclusive to the App.
It'll also say a lot about the extent of their support if these come with printed skills, new treasures, etc... and also how much they cost. MSRP of those heroes would suggest a $120-130 box... but its going to take a deep discount, and probably included physical cards to make that look acceptable on a shelf, next to a $150 base-game, with ten-fold more content for the price.
Does Hobby Lobby carry board games in your area? And isnt Hobby Lobby a Christian Organization? I cant see them stocking their shelves with Demons.
When I was a boy scout they banned MtG because the cards used "mana" (Boy Scouts did, not Hobby Lobby)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm more curious than anything, about the "expansion" box of four bundled heroes. I think hearing about it will be VERY telling. If, for instance, they come with non-hologram cards included, we'll find it likely that GW will be making print/physical versions of what otherwise might be exclusive to the App.
It'll also say a lot about the extent of their support if these come with printed skills, new treasures, etc... and also how much they cost. MSRP of those heroes would suggest a $120-130 box... but its going to take a deep discount, and probably included physical cards to make that look acceptable on a shelf, next to a $150 base-game, with ten-fold more content for the price.
Im not a big fan of Holo-gram cards, my eyes dont like them..
I know GW will try and sell anything, but your right, $120 for 4 characters when the Box has 51... I dont see how you can justify that.. It will indeed need to come with alot of printed material.
Nice find! Shame about the skin on the 2 human heroes. Was hoping for steps closer to the Eavy Metal stuff. The tzeentch stuff came out nicely and this will be useful for colour reference :-)
Nice find! Shame about the skin on the 2 human heroes. Was hoping for steps closer to the Eavy Metal stuff. The tzeentch stuff came out nicely and this will be useful for colour reference :-)
Ditto. I've always had trouble painting gold, which one can imagine to be a big problem for a Tzeentch player.
Several people have asked about character development. I just received a preview copy of the game. Characters do develop within the confines of the adventures in this set. Because of the ephemeral nature of the tower you have a 50/50 chance of retaining magic items at the end of each adventure, and you can keep skills depending on how many rune fragments the party has collected (max 4 skills). GW will support this heavily with upcoming campaign books that add new monsters, and (and this is speculation) I believe they intend to release new adventures like they did for the old WHQ. I have no idea whether or not they will develop campaign rules to allow you to keep developed characters and run them in later adventures, but they seem to be listening to customers, so perhaps you should suggest that on their facebook page.
I bet some of it, most probably the badges, will be given as a freebie if you pre-order direct from GW.
both, but not very FLGS may have one yet. As An aside if you can see the full wall poster at a store it's quite a good land exciting look at the models.
Chikout wrote: If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Well if you want to break the law that's up to you. Yes, that's right, if you make your own copies of the app contents that's every bit as much a breach of copyright law as just downloading a cracked copy of the whole app, even after the hypothetical point at which GW abandon the whole thing unless they were to explicitly permit it. There are lots of ways apps can be a useful addition to games providing the latter is not dependent on them, but a platform that seemingly exists mostly as a walled garden for microtransactions isn't one of them.
Regardless, agree to disagree I suppose since nobody is going to change their mind on this.
Well if you want to break the law that's up to you. Yes, that's right, if you make your own copies of the app contents that's every bit as much a breach of copyright law as just downloading a cracked copy of the whole app
Actually it depends on which part of the world your in, in some countries software is protected under a whole different set of laws from content like images, books, moving pictures and sculpture. And copying software might (or might not) be worse then making a screenshot. And if you own a legal copy of the app you might even be allowed to make a copy for personal use, the same way that in many countries your allowed to make copies of tapes, discs, MP3s you own and convert it to a different format, again for personal use only.
Chikout wrote: If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Well if you want to break the law that's up to you. Yes, that's right, if you make your own copies of the app contents that's every bit as much a breach of copyright law as just downloading a cracked copy of the whole app, even after the hypothetical point at which GW abandon the whole thing unless they were to explicitly permit it. There are lots of ways apps can be a useful addition to games providing the latter is not dependent on them, but a platform that seemingly exists mostly as a walled garden for microtransactions isn't one of them.
Regardless, agree to disagree I suppose since nobody is going to change their mind on this.
Im fairly certain its legal to make your own personal copies, the UK passed this law in 2014 "copyright and rights in performances regulations 2014"
This argument could be over anything really, so pointing the finger at app support is useless. I have gotten my wife spa gift cards just to see the spa go out of business before she used it. Also I think its rather unrealistic to expect life long support for anything. There is always the exception to the rule.
Chikout wrote: If this is so worrying, then take screenahots of the app and save them onto a USB or email them to yourself. There are ways around all of your problems you mention. An app seems like a potentially useful but probably unnecessary tool to enjoy the game. If the history of warhammer quest is anything to do go by the community will probably invent rules to improve the game in any case.
I am excited to try out the game and I will probably download the app if it is priced reasonably. I am really interested in the competitive cooperation the new game seems to be going for.
Well if you want to break the law that's up to you. Yes, that's right, if you make your own copies of the app contents that's every bit as much a breach of copyright law as just downloading a cracked copy of the whole app, even after the hypothetical point at which GW abandon the whole thing unless they were to explicitly permit it. There are lots of ways apps can be a useful addition to games providing the latter is not dependent on them, but a platform that seemingly exists mostly as a walled garden for microtransactions isn't one of them.
Regardless, agree to disagree I suppose since nobody is going to change their mind on this.
Im fairly certain its legal to make your own personal copies, the UK passed this law in 2014 "copyright and rights in performances regulations 2014"
You'll note the phrase "other than a computer programme" appears in that legislation, it relates to copying media not software. Under UK law you're permitted to make a backup copy of software, but that means literally copy the files from one place to another, you cannot circumvent any copy protection that's present if it would stop that or in order to extract the information, and since I doubt GW offer their apps DRM-free screenshotting(assuming that's sufficient to gain all the functionality necessary to play the game should you lose access to the app) the cards in the app would be circumventing the copy protection since it's not an action explicitly permitted by the copyright holder.
This argument could be over anything really, so pointing the finger at app support is useless. I have gotten my wife spa gift cards just to see the spa go out of business before she used it.
I don't buy giftcards either for exactly that reason. Any more whataboutery? Because another thing also being gak for similar reasons that apps are gak(in relation to this specific type of functionality) doesn't mean either of the two is any less gak.
Also I think its rather unrealistic to expect life long support for anything.
Why? Nobody is demanding GW continue providing new content via this app until the end of time, they merely want to be assured that they won't lose access to something they paid money for - sure, they could just trust GW, a corporation which exists in a philosophical sense for the exclusive purpose of making money and will do anything legal towards that end including fething over customers if the gain would be greater than the loss, but frankly I'd rather make my purchases in a format that doesn't require me to trust GW.
Meh, I made the switch to digital some time ago for books, movies, music...
True, you run the risk of things 'disappearing' but it saves having to find space to put everything and the periodic clearouts. Plus, just make sure you read the T&C's to avoid any issues.
My main hope for Bloodbowl is a team/league app, so WHQ getting one just fills me with joy.
-taking place in realm of life
-your battle results will be logged at a GW Web Station (the computer you order from when at a GW Store) to prevent skewing results like Eye of Terror did
-it will shape the setting when they write up future campaign books
general's handbook
-units have a model count cap (max 10 models, or 20 models, etc. depends on the unit)
-you can only add models in "groups" (no points for individual models. example: add 5 liberators to your unit for X points)
-book will contain points for all models, and they'll be included in battletomes going forward (i don't know if it's definitive, i couldn't tell if he assumed that was what's going to happen or if he was told by studio guys)
-army organization is a mix of force org from 40k and the point-tiers from fantasy. for every X points in a game, you can have up to Y heros/wizards/monsters, etc.
-in Match Play, there's the "Rule of 1s", in that 1s always fail, limit named characters to 1 per army, and units you summoned cannot summon other units that turn
-weapon upgrades in units won't cost additional points.
-some missions in the book that are styled like LotR games, where you recreate a major battle with each player bringing an army determined by the rules, and such missions will be included in battletomes.
-narrative will have a lot of cool stuff to add to your games. magic items for your heroes to wield, new Path of Glory for all armies, new missions to run, etc.
future models
-in the general's handbook, there looks to be new sylvaneth models shown. i would take this with a grain of salt, as they could be very well done conversions, but from what i heard, there are models of aelfs whose limbs are turning into branches and plants, and new updated treemen (not treelords, the treemen who are bigger than branchwraiths but smaller than treelords)
-concept art shown of allariel riding what looks to be a giant rhino beetle? sounds interesting, possible future model? only time will tell
-Slaanesh is not dead. Models are supposedly finished and they're waiting to get things ready (box art, artwork for future books, production, finding a time to include in the story, etc.) studios rarely release models the second they are done, there's a lot of prep work behind the scenes.
sales numbers
-. AoS is now roughly 30% of sales. 40k is still outperforming by a large margin, but AoS numbers are healthy. what to take away from this is that AoS will continue forward, it's here to stay, there's no plans to go backwards on it.
-you can only add models in "groups" (no points for individual models. example: add 5 liberators to your unit for X points)
That is what I feared and why I don't like SCGT comp. I guess they're going by unit box sizes.
And no point costs for weapon upgrades? Not looking forward to the General's Handbook right now.
Everything in the GH sounds really good. Can't really find anything I'm not excited for, and VERY happy to hear about the sales numbers. You can definitely tell they involved some tournament people to help write those rules, they should stop any abuse that you risk coming across in pick-up gaming. The rules also sound very similar to existing comp, which is no surprise. Love it, love it, love it!
-you can only add models in "groups" (no points for individual models. example: add 5 liberators to your unit for X points)
That is what I feared and why I don't like SCGT comp. I guess they're going by unit box sizes.
And no point costs for weapon upgrades? Not looking forward to the General's Handbook right now.
I'm pretty meh about points, generally preferring they didn't exist. But if they are coming this is exactly how I would like them.
Half price battlepacks sounds awesome. But the Seraphon one is showing as £8.99.. is that really half of it's original price? Compared to the contents of some other battlepacks, that seems rather steep.
Erynor wrote: Half price battlepacks sounds awesome. But the Seraphon one is showing as £8.99.. is that really half of it's original price? Compared to the contents of some other battlepacks, that seems rather steep.
Age of Sigmar as 30% of sales is kind of surprising; even as a fan, I wouldn't have thought that sales were that high. If true, it does suggest that something is working.
Points going in boxed-set multiples is not very surprising to me. It suits the simpler nature of the game, especially given that individual upgrades are not as big a thing in this as in 40k. I don't know if other games on the market do it this way? It also makes a lot of sense if you consider the game to be trying to limit complexity in the rules.
New Slyvaneth models sounds pimp. I keep meaning to expand my Order Elves into Sylvaneth, as I love that Treeman model. Only problem is that he kind of doesn't synergise well with anything except a GW forest, and I've never seen that forest's warscroll actually used...
Chopxsticks wrote: Thats extreme dude, Way extreme. .... Thats straight Dooms Day Preppers reality lvl of paranoia.
I see you've met Yodhrin. Welcome to DakkaDakka.
He is not wrong though. ever played an mmo that is now defunct?. it's the same. I have bought about 4 packs of cards for HS but Im also aware one day its going to go.
As said im only keeping the beastmen n ogre. if the other heroes are cool that may appear i may get one but i honestly doubt it. i don't like the male witch elf or the faceless wizard thing, the others are very meh. i might keep the sorcerer but probably not.
Yup. I can't play several of the games I have bought(or at least play it the way I want to play them...Alternative has no interest) because _they shut down the server_.
"Boot up game, connect....Ooops can't do it".
E-book that doesn't require connecting to server fine. That's not going to go away in a hurry. App that works independently regardless of do you have connection or not, okay that can work too. App that requires connection to server to work...That's hole for problem. Eventually that server WILL go down.
Charles Rampant wrote: Age of Sigmar as 30% of sales is kind of surprising; even as a fan, I wouldn't have thought that sales were that high. If true, it does suggest that something is working.
Points going in boxed-set multiples is not very surprising to me. It suits the simpler nature of the game, especially given that individual upgrades are not as big a thing in this as in 40k. I don't know if other games on the market do it this way? It also makes a lot of sense if you consider the game to be trying to limit complexity in the rules.
New Slyvaneth models sounds pimp. I keep meaning to expand my Order Elves into Sylvaneth, as I love that Treeman model. Only problem is that he kind of doesn't synergise well with anything except a GW forest, and I've never seen that forest's warscroll actually used...
The 30% is a big surprise. Especially considering Fantasy was apparently something like 15-17% of sales and falling. If it's true, the I guess a lot of the armchair CEOs on here were wrong about GW not having a clue what they are doing.
I believe AoS sales are largely due to them selling off old stuff rather than the newer figures honestly.
From the stores I have contact with its largely repackaged stuff that's selling really less so newer things.
Now saying this I do think WHQ will sell as will things that can fit into the old Warhammer world. Such as if they release new beastmen outside this box.
but it shows that if they do a new mordhiem it is going to be in the newer AoS world
migooo wrote: I believe AoS sales are largely due to them selling off old stuff rather than the newer figures honestly.
From the stores I have contact with its largely repackaged stuff that's selling really less so newer things.
Now saying this I do think WHQ will sell as will things that can fit into the old Warhammer world. Such as if they release new beastmen outside this box.
That could definitely be the case, but to double the sales figures of fantasy seems a large amount especially when you consider it was really a dying franchise towards the end. Are there really that many people who are buying up the old stuff for a dead game?
migooo wrote: I believe AoS sales are largely due to them selling off old stuff rather than the newer figures honestly.
From the stores I have contact with its largely repackaged stuff that's selling really less so newer things.
Now saying this I do think WHQ will sell as will things that can fit into the old Warhammer world. Such as if they release new beastmen outside this box.
That could definitely be the case, but to double the sales figures of fantasy seems a large amount especially when you consider it was really a dying franchise towards the end. Are there really that many people who are buying up the old stuff for a dead game?
That's assuming the info is correct though...GW's numbers says though either 40k has been dropping a lot more than expected(despite Calth etc) or AOS is not doing that well. 40k can't be doing better than before if AOS is doing better than FB. Since profits fell down SOMETHING has to have had to fail so if AOS has been huge success compared to FB40k would have to have been suffering huge drop in profits.
migooo wrote: I believe AoS sales are largely due to them selling off old stuff rather than the newer figures honestly.
From the stores I have contact with its largely repackaged stuff that's selling really less so newer things.
Now saying this I do think WHQ will sell as will things that can fit into the old Warhammer world. Such as if they release new beastmen outside this box.
That could definitely be the case, but to double the sales figures of fantasy seems a large amount especially when you consider it was really a dying franchise towards the end. Are there really that many people who are buying up the old stuff for a dead game?
Yeah quite a few people im aware of. GW still well had the best fantasy figures. people are getting what they want for their collections when they can
migooo wrote: I believe AoS sales are largely due to them selling off old stuff rather than the newer figures honestly.
From the stores I have contact with its largely repackaged stuff that's selling really less so newer things.
Now saying this I do think WHQ will sell as will things that can fit into the old Warhammer world. Such as if they release new beastmen outside this box.
That could definitely be the case, but to double the sales figures of fantasy seems a large amount especially when you consider it was really a dying franchise towards the end. Are there really that many people who are buying up the old stuff for a dead game?
That's assuming the info is correct though...GW's numbers says though either 40k has been dropping a lot more than expected(despite Calth etc) or AOS is not doing that well. 40k can't be doing better than before if AOS is doing better than FB. Since profits fell down SOMETHING has to have had to fail so if AOS has been huge success compared to FB40k would have to have been suffering huge drop in profits.
Or 40k tanked hard compared to when Fantasy was around. Who knows. Their earnings report will be interesting at least.
Registering results at a GW terminal takes me out of the equation foe te summer campaign, unless I make it a point to have a three hoursround trip. A nice try to get people in their stores where the hard sell happens, but not everyone can easily go there. Or wants to.
Path to Glory for everyone could be very nice, though.
All these talks on how AOS is doing is rumors that's it. We can't clearly see how its doing if its good or bad until their financial report trying to guess is useless.
If AOS is doing great that's awesome! If its not GW have to work at it end of. Hell whats surprising if its true people can't fathom or accept that it "may" actually be doing well, since Atia and war of sigmar is rather reliable.
Now one thing I am glad about is slaanesh you don't know how many times I had to tell people slaanesh did not get squatted from the fluff.
My personal feelings to it aside im going by data from 6 Local Gaming stores. And while I do despise it i would concede if my data showed otherwise. it doesn't
Yep. Seems as though people are scrabbling around for a reason other than the really obvious one. The hated usurper may be doing well.
I'll believe it when I see it, because that directly contradicts what we've been told by Hastings.
Hastings is a reliable source of rumours, but I wouldn't take everything he/she says as gospel.
No but then again we have another rumour source who might or might not be correct contradicting known accurate poster, suggestions GW's own financial statements and many stores are indicating.
Now I suppose it IS possible that a) 40k tanked big time b) AOS buyers are using GW directly rather than independent stores...But that's quite a big leap of assumption.
shinros wrote: But Atia is also rather accurate as well. So who is right? As I said we gotta wait until the financial reports.
What's Attia's source though? Is information directly from GW staff who is involved with this or with somebody who claims to have got.
In either case Atia is ONE source. Hastings side has MULTIPLE sides. For AOS to be succeeding in gaining % in sales needs a) 40k sales have had to suffer major drop(when overall sales drop you can't have both AOS gaining and 40k staying/increasing) b) AOS players generally buying from direct(since stores are generally not selling that much. Up to the point stores in US are dumbing stuff on loss)
One source who might or might not be correct vs one source who is just as reliable if not more with multiple indications indicating same direction.
Oh and if Atia's information comes from GW employer...Well GW employer has MOTIVATION to say what is not true.
As far as sales go...I've purchased 3 Khorne get started boxes, 2 Nurgle boxes, and one lizardmen/Seraphon box. So 6 in total. And a starter set. Granted, they're all awesome deals. But that's still 7 boxes from me which would be $635 retail. I paid a bit less than that. But most were from my local.
shinros wrote: All these talks on how AOS is doing is rumors that's it. We can't clearly see how its doing if its good or bad until their financial report trying to guess is useless.
If AOS is doing great that's awesome! If its not GW have to work at it end of. Hell whats surprising if its true people can't fathom or accept that it "may" actually be doing well, since Atia and war of sigmar is rather reliable.
Now one thing I am glad about is slaanesh you don't know how many times I had to tell people slaanesh did not get squatted from the fluff.
Some people say AoS and mean Stormcast, other say AoS and point to the full range of fantasy models.
there seems to be some confusion there.
Personally I would like to know if the scenery is doing well If they sold one of those full chaos fortresses, the sales probably surpassed old fantasy by that sale alone.
Speaking of scenery, those new pieces on the new realm of battle board look interresting. The fallen bridge thing looks cool and could probably be combined with itself for an awesome battleboard centerpiece.
shinros wrote: All these talks on how AOS is doing is rumors that's it. We can't clearly see how its doing if its good or bad until their financial report trying to guess is useless.
If AOS is doing great that's awesome! If its not GW have to work at it end of. Hell whats surprising if its true people can't fathom or accept that it "may" actually be doing well, since Atia and war of sigmar is rather reliable.
Now one thing I am glad about is slaanesh you don't know how many times I had to tell people slaanesh did not get squatted from the fluff.
Some people say AoS and mean Stormcast, other say AoS and point to the full range of fantasy models.
there seems to be some confusion there.
Personally I would like to know if the scenery is doing well If they sold one of those full chaos fortresses, the sales probably surpassed old fantasy by that sale alone.
That would actually be rather interesting to see we would have to wait until they do their tops sales again.
shinros wrote: But Atia is also rather accurate as well. So who is right? As I said we gotta wait until the financial reports.
What's Attia's source though? Is information directly from GW staff who is involved with this or with somebody who claims to have got.
In either case Atia is ONE source. Hastings side has MULTIPLE sides. For AOS to be succeeding in gaining % in sales needs a) 40k sales have had to suffer major drop(when overall sales drop you can't have both AOS gaining and 40k staying/increasing) b) AOS players generally buying from direct(since stores are generally not selling that much. Up to the point stores in US are dumbing stuff on loss)
One source who might or might not be correct vs one source who is just as reliable if not more with multiple indications indicating same direction.
Oh and if Atia's information comes from GW employer...Well GW employer has MOTIVATION to say what is not true.
Those are some mighty twists and turns to avoid even entertaining the thought that AoS is doing well. Implying that even if Atia had an inside source, they would be lying? Wow. As for the total sales drop, again, you are right, but remember that those numbers are for last year. It might very well be that AoS tanked in it's first 6 months but has picked up significantly since then, especially considering all we had for almost all of 2015 were Stormcast and Bloodbound, which few people seemed excited about. We have no idea until we get their next financial report.
The flgs around here have been selling aos (new stuff) faster than they can get it. You have to make sure you get there asap or you have to wait for them to reorder. The older fantasy stuff is selling too, but that is mainly the stuff going oop.
40k on the other hand is stagnating on the shelves. The fantasy tournaments died years ago... Now 40k has died. Only 3-4 folks meet to play 40k now, compared to almost 20.
AOS on the other hand... this 'dead' or dying game? Well that has about 12 players. Not to mention those of us who play at our own homes on our own tables with our wives and kids. It seems most 40k players are frustrated and have been switching to aos. Part of the reason for this is they can buy the models they like and make an army from them... no restrictions whatsoever.
Sorry but it is doing well here in central/northern wisconsin!
455_PWR wrote: The flgs around here have been selling aos (new stuff) faster than they can get it. You have to make sure you get there asap or you have to wait for them to reorder. The older fantasy stuff is selling too, but that is mainly the stuff going oop.
40k on the other hand is stagnating on the shelves. The fantasy tournaments died years ago... Now 40k has died. Only 3-4 folks meet to play 40k now, compared to almost 20.
AOS on the other hand... this 'dead' or dying game? Well that has about 12 players. Not to mention those of us who play at our own homes on our own tables with our wives and kids. It seems most 40k players are frustrated and have been switching to aos. Part of the reason for this is they can buy the models they like and make an army from them... no restrictions whatsoever.
Sorry but it is doing well here in central/northern wisconsin!
Yeah AOS is doing great in "my" GW store we have players and collectors and we got a healthy mix of 40k players or those who play both.
455_PWR wrote: The flgs around here have been selling aos (new stuff) faster than they can get it. You have to make sure you get there asap or you have to wait for them to reorder. The older fantasy stuff is selling too, but that is mainly the stuff going oop.
40k on the other hand is stagnating on the shelves. The fantasy tournaments died years ago... Now 40k has died. Only 3-4 folks meet to play 40k now, compared to almost 20.
AOS on the other hand... this 'dead' or dying game? Well that has about 12 players. Not to mention those of us who play at our own homes on our own tables with our wives and kids. It seems most 40k players are frustrated and have been switching to aos. Part of the reason for this is they can buy the models they like and make an army from them... no restrictions whatsoever.
Sorry but it is doing well here in central/northern wisconsin!
Yeah AOS is doing great in "my" GW store we have players and collectors and we got a healthy mix of 40k players or those who play both.
Same here in my "local" (5 hours away but closest there is for me) FLGS. Owner is pimping AoS pretty hard and it has a very healthy scene with lots of players, weekend events, tournaments, that sort of thing.
So, is WHQ gonna be limited in any way like space hulk? Or are they planning to keep it around? I don't think I can swing it now, but in a few months I'd like to pick it up
It's a nice looking game . The expansions could be God orientated. If so we could get some nice looking Beastmen with each expansion. Though I do miss the plastic doorways
Though I think a skaven one, could be interesting as could an undead or whatever they are called.Though I think I'd like spider goblins more than those mutant night ones
maybe they just mean don't miss out by not buying it rather than meaning get it before its gone. that pic is great to see. did anyone notice all of the stormcast and chaos figs in the little pamphlet that says "play with these heroes and more only via the app"? that's pretty sweet sounding. I don't necessarily relish the idea of having to buy an app but im sure that they will make their way to paper somewhere.
Yep. Seems as though people are scrabbling around for a reason other than the really obvious one. The hated usurper may be doing well.
I'll believe it when I see it, because that directly contradicts what we've been told by Hastings.
Some bloke on the internet says otherwise.
Yes yes. All hear say we're all to old and grumpy and should just accept whatever bones Gw graciously throw us and expect to pay for if and when they do.
I'm willing to adapt but this is just like 4e d&d so no I can choose not to like it. While technically if I buy it and get rid of the parts I have no interest in I'm supporting AoS (unfortunatley ) technically but I personally like to think I'm supporting the bringing back of a game I loved. Ive not bought a single AoS figure yet ( or more accurately a newer imagined one )
Necros wrote: So, is WHQ gonna be limited in any way like space hulk? Or are they planning to keep it around? I don't think I can swing it now, but in a few months I'd like to pick it up
I asked mikhaila about this and he said that his sales rep told him, "will sell out, but we'll make more." So hopefully it will stick around.
It may be a limited initial run but- cynic mode on - an app with transactions is pretty overkill for something that'll be gone in a couple of months. None of the other box games got apps, for example - just WD rule expansions.
I'd suggest it'll be an ongoing product, simply because it's another hook to shift AoS minis, even if not actually helping AoS gain traction.
"Don't miss out" could easily mean it'll be a great time, and why would you want to not partake. It's definitely an ambiguous term. I guess time will tell. I already have my copy ordered with my game store.
Kinda going back to earlier, but I just picked up the Ironjawz battle pack. Now that I have that, is there any real need for the Irinjawz book? Am I missing out on anything besides background now that I've got the battle pack formations and missions?
Well I’ll just have to wait and see in a couple of months then.. i’m sure if they are making an app and everything they will keep at least the core game going or reprint when they run out. I've given up on trying to get their special edition stuff long ago, so I don't care about that stuff too much. I promissed myself no more big boxed games till I paint my betrayal at Calth minis. So far I put together 3 marines :( Too. Many. Projects.
Back in my day, GW didn’t release stuff fast enough and you’d have to wait years and years and years between new codexes.. Now it’s like it’s way too fast for my wallet to keep up :(
If it ends up including anything besides just figures, I'll probably take the plunge... again.
Or a good enough discount. I'm good with both!
Its the heroes and their cards/upgrades
It is discounted, id guess 10-15% off from buying singles though id hope it would be more since the singles are around 30-40 a pop, I don't want to spend 100$ on 4 guys for a board game. Id sooner just buy 5$ recasts.
This is where the app comes into play. If you own the minis already you DL the app and buy their cards, saving a good bit of $
If profits have been down it makes no sense to not sell as much product as there is demand. I'm willing to bet this game will be in production for a while as long as it moves. I'm going to wait until the reviews hit. But then again Space Hulk sold like hotcakes and that was a limited run.
If it ends up including anything besides just figures, I'll probably take the plunge... again.
Or a good enough discount. I'm good with both!
Its the heroes and their cards/upgrades
It is discounted, id guess 10-15% off from buying singles though id hope it would be more since the singles are around 30-40 a pop, I don't want to spend 100$ on 4 guys for a board game. Id sooner just buy 5$ recasts.
This is where the app comes into play. If you own the minis already you DL the app and buy their cards, saving a good bit of $
Has any of that actually been confirmed?
Meanwhile, a 10-15% discount, won't cut it for essentially anyone, unless its definitely loaded down with physical skill and treasure cards too.
I imagine, if GW is really wanting to build momentum for WQ, the boxes of heroes will have discounts similar to the "Start Collecting!" boxes, or slightly less and extra game content (new skills, treasures, etc..).
Got to see many of the figs today. Beautiful but MASSIVE compared to my Empire miniatures. The barbarian was a head taller than my Steam Tank pilot who is stood upright. The Tzeentch cultists are all obviously bigger too. Could make the Warrior Priest incompatible with the other Devoted of Sigmar.
Beautiful models regardless, and I don't particularly mind. Not everyone is the same height. But something to consider if this is one of your priorities.
timetowaste85 wrote: "Don't miss out" could easily mean it'll be a great time, and why would you want to not partake. It's definitely an ambiguous term. I guess time will tell. I already have my copy ordered with my game store.
This.
I would not have thought it said anything else if people didnt connect it with a possible limited release.
As a comparison I might quote Neil Gaimans book blurb on Gene Wolfes exelent "Wizard Knight":
"If you dont read this book, You'll have missed out on something important and wonderful and all the cool people will laugh at you" It sure got me to buy the book
godswildcard wrote: Kinda going back to earlier, but I just picked up the Ironjawz battle pack. Now that I have that, is there any real need for the Irinjawz book? Am I missing out on anything besides background now that I've got the battle pack formations and missions?
I'll find out tonight after I buy the Ironjaw battlepack and compare with what is in my hardcopy book. I'm gonna guess the only thing you miss out on is some fluff and artwork, but will know for certain tonight after work.
Honestly $60 for just 4 single models for a board game would still be to costly imo, and that's 50% off... Thats a tough sell, but I want the slaughterprist and the auric runemaster, so picked those up solo. Already owned the Tzeentch wizard so thats a bonus! and I dont see how the Sigmar Winged Archer would fit on the board, lol... It looks huge.
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
Chopxsticks wrote: Honestly $60 for just 4 single models for a board game would still be to costly imo, and that's 50% off... Thats a tough sell, but I want the slaughterprist and the auric runemaster, so picked those up solo. Already owned the Tzeentch wizard so thats a bonus! and I dont see how the Sigmar Winged Archer would fit on the board, lol... It looks huge.
At 50% off, i'll be impressed, and will bite, no questions asked (I happen to want that Runepriest anyway, and almost bought one recently).
I just don't know if thats a remotely possible expectation. :-p
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
LOL worst managed game store ever
"I dislike sales, so I will disparage my product."
No wonder companies such as Privateer Press and Asmodee are forced to prop up this failing business model with price fixing schemes.
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
Which means what?
Means the LGS owner is putting down an exciting new product on the eve of its release ... Genius!
Yep. Seems as though people are scrabbling around for a reason other than the really obvious one. The hated usurper may be doing well.
I'll believe it when I see it, because that directly contradicts what we've been told by Hastings.
Hastings is a reliable source of rumours, but I wouldn't take everything he/she says as gospel.
Gospel? Obviously not, but I see no reason not to place the same level of trust in his rumours about AoS's success as I would in ones of a new model or book release, trust he's earned with many years of accurate rumours. The rumours coming from Hastings also chime better with the preponderance of anecdotal information we've got.
I could believe a rumour that AoS was doing 30% of revenue right at this very moment, given the Orruk release seems to be the first one that's really struck a chord for many, but the idea it's been doing that consistently over any period of time is difficult to accept given how it's apparently struggling to gain a foothold in many regions and what we heard from retailers about badly tanking GW sales over the AoS release-heavy period last year.
As for Silver Tower, I'm baffled that people apparently have demo copies in hand right now yet we still don't have anything better than handheld shakycam video footage of sprues being held several feet away from the lens. It's infuriating that people keep insisting on putting up either blurry photos of WD pages half obscured by glare, or plainly inferior video-based content where they vaguely wave sprues in the general direction of the camera for a few seconds while insisting how awesome the models are despite the fact you couldn't see them clearly even after using TV Crime Drama Computer Magic Enhancement on it.
Put sprues against light background, take steady high-resolution photos of both sides, upload, done. It's not hard, yet it never seems to happen.
Just because it isn't the same as what came before?
Because it doesn't have all the extra stuff included from the get- go? Strange.
Also on the hero reboxing- considering that the Knight is on a 40mm base just like the other Stormcasts, I'm sure he'll fit. He also costs 40 bucks on his own, and the other guys all seem to hover around the 30 dollar price mark. If GW wants to bundle them all up for under 100, hopefully more like 75 or 80, I could see them moving a few. I'd bite at that point. It's not like they would be single cast PVC gaming pieces. They'd still be decent hobby quality figures, and at a little bit more bearable price. Hopefully.
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
Which means what?
Means the LGS owner is putting down an exciting new product on the eve of its release ... Genius!
Perhaps he knows his own local market better than folk on the internet do, and can anticipate that they will not be satisfied by whatever has changed/been removed relative to the original WHQ? Or is it only OK to credit FLGS owners with intelligence and local knowledge when they're praising AoS products to the heavens?
Yodhrin wrote: Perhaps he knows his own local market better than folk on the internet do, and can anticipate that they will not be satisfied by whatever has changed/been removed relative to the original WHQ?
Broadcasting negativity about a product you will be carrying simply makes no sense. If a LGS owner thinks X product will not do as well in his shop, the smart ... no, not even smart ... the common sense thing to do is keep it behind the scenes. People should really keep this kind of self-destructive behavior (far from rare IME) in mind when they read claims that AoS is not doing well at a LGS. Silver Tower is a hugely exciting product. There is literally no reason to talk it down - unless you want to self-sabotage, of course.
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
Which means what?
Means the LGS owner is putting down an exciting new product on the eve of its release ... Genius!
Perhaps he knows his own local market better than folk on the internet do, and can anticipate that they will not be satisfied by whatever has changed/been removed relative to the original WHQ? Or is it only OK to credit FLGS owners with intelligence and local knowledge when they're praising AoS products to the heavens?
It might be worth to take that financial hit if the alternative is destroying your credibility amongst a customer base that support the FLGS because they can trust the owner to be honest about his products rather then saying whatever sounds good to make a quick buck out of misleading their customers.
Anyone interested in the new Quest because they liked the old one, really should be vary of ordering it before they see some reviews. That should be obvious really, but some need the reminder.
I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mnidset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.
General Kroll wrote: It's not limited edition, was told today that there will be expansions. Pinch of salt required of course.
Let's hope it's just a pinch - expansion ... as in real, physical product, not ethereal digital nothing, would be a massive treat!
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
LOL worst managed game store ever
"I dislike sales, so I will disparage my product."
No wonder companies such as Privateer Press and Asmodee are forced to prop up this failing business model with price fixing schemes.
you just cant take any criticism ? AoS is great and anybody who doesn't like it is stupid argument is getting really thin
Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games. my Lgs had to order a minimum amount and that's all hes doing he barely covers AoS sales. Ill contact the others I receive data from to see how it went.
I dont want Bloodbowl,Mordhiem, Warmaster or Man o War, to be Sigmarized maybe you do but I don't.
PP and others rely on their rather unique group play methods via press gangers n such so i understand them wanting that community. if a person knows a product is rubbish why should he sell it? he shouldn't.
Manchu wrote: I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mindset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.
If the store owner knows what his regular customers expect out of a game, and he perceives after looking at the rules that new Quest will not be that game. And he also knows many of them are susceptable to go out and buy the game purely out of nostalgia for the old, then it would behoove that store to order less boxes to avoid getting stuck with unsold stock on the shelves, and while it's going above and beyond, it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering.
migooo wrote: if a person knows a product is rubbish why should he sell it? he shouldn't.
You're right, he shouldn't sell it. And what he absolutely, definitely shouldn't do is sell it while telling his customers how terrible it is. Anyhow, this is really not about one LGS owner - the reason it merits any discussion at all (in this thread at least) is that it's just empty negativity: "guys be wary of Silver Tower ... for reasons." Oh ok. This is even more irritating than the folks who cannot spend a minute to steady their hand and account for focus and glare when snapping a pic of a WD page or a model.
Zywus wrote: it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering
But .... he didn't. And there is a much better way to do this - you can talk about what the game does have. That way, you don't damage sales to people who are not looking to recapture their gone-for-good childhood. But again - the thread is not really about "random LGS owner self-sabotages" so much as ... let's just deal with this supposed "criticism" right now because it sounds like a problem with the customer ("but I wanted X") rather than the product.
Manchu wrote: I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mnidset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.
General Kroll wrote: It's not limited edition, was told today that there will be expansions. Pinch of salt required of course.
Let's hope it's just a pinch - expansion ... as in real, physical product, not ethereal digital nothing, would be a massive treat!
From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.
General Kroll wrote: From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.
It would be awesome to see a line of figs released primarily for WHQ that could be used in AoS games ... and even cooler if these characters started appearing in the fluff!
Baron Klatz wrote: I'm all for honesty but that was far too vague a warning. Really should put in more detail of what he finds lacking.
Agreed. There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ (possibly relating to being charged for any and all data sheets beyond the main game), but I wouldn't make such a statement without being able to back it up.
Accolade wrote: There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ
Given what I saw in Execution Force*, I am mostly concerned about component quality - like the cards and tiles, not the models obviously. If someone has them and thinks they're great or finds them lacking, please post!
*I have not seen the Calth or Overkill contents in person.
Accolade wrote: There *may* be significant issues with this WHQ
Given what I saw in Execution Force*, I am mostly concerned about component quality - like the cards and tiles, not the models obviously. If someone has them and thinks they're great or finds them lacking, please post!
*I have not seen the Calth or Overkill contents in person.
I don't mind complaints, I just want them to be more detailed than "It's bad guys, not ordering very many"
I did take a trip to the new GW store here in PA for lunch. (Never been so figured it was worth it to see)
Silver Tower looks good, so im excited I preordered
The realm of battle boards that are new also looked really good. They had a demo table set up with them on it. The guy said that the preorder for both (as apparently there is two styles) will be "very soon"
Also I asked on the point system for AoS. He said he didn't get tons of time with the book but as he was flipping through he did see Nagash is 700 points now. No idea on the army composition on whats a normal game of points for AoS.
I own an LGS. The reason many companies send out advanced copies of games is so that people can play them and test them out for themselves. Rather than tell your customer base that the game is terrible, demo a game for them and see if they like it. There are stores in my town with employees who bad-talked Warmachine for years and told every customer that 40K was a better game. The result was that they clearanced out all of their Warmachine and no-one plays it in their store, while my Warmachine leagues boomed. It's ok to have your own opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. I personally refuse to play Train games and Magic, but I would be cutting my wrists if I actively prevented people from buying those games. I train my clerks to ask what people like and guide them towards games that match those likes, but if a customer decides that he wants to buy a particular game, my clerks let him buy it. I have clerks that like games involving cats, but can you imagine them discouraging a sale because the game chosen doesn't have a single cat in it? I try to inform my customers about games, but in a neutral way. I provide computers for them to go on Board Game Geek and check the ratings of games. I run demos for them to try it out and make up their own minds about a game. Most sales people in the gaming industry are taught never to talk down another company's product. It makes you look petty and defensive. In sales, you can't discourage purchases and survive long. As for WHQ, the old WHQ played like a smaller version of WFB. You can't expect the new version to play like that. The new version is similar to AOS in that it's easy to learn and play, and each character can do a bunch of actions in their turn. Here's one cool improvement, there is no "roll a one phase." So your wizard doesn't have to feel guilty about wandering monsters swamping your party.
LOL.
It's not that criticism of AoS/WHQ is bad, it's a shining example of why FLGS go under.
They are nebulously disparaging a product and warning their customers off buying it. While still ordering it in to sell.
When you sell things for a living, you don't dictate what the customer does or doesn't want. You sell them what they want.
Or, y'know, don't sell stuff and pay bills with the lovely warm feeling of being liked by people who used to buy stuff from you.
@Smellingsalts - your store sounds pretty great actually!
Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.
General Kroll wrote: From what I was told, it was going to be both. Support for additional scenarios etc through the app (ala AoS) and models etc down the line. Fingers crossed.
It would be awesome to see a line of figs released primarily for WHQ that could be used in AoS games ... and even cooler if these characters started appearing in the fluff!
The best part is that half of the Hero characters in Quest have already been namedropped in fluff.
Doomseekers were in the Fyreslayers book, Knight Questors have been mentioned as have the Warrior-Priests.
Of the remaining three, two of them(the Tenebrae Shard, Mistweaver Saih) have been hinted at in the main AoS book(Malerion's forces have been said to be "prowling within the mists of Ulgu" and striking in the span of a thought) while the last(Darkoath Chieftain) is a relatively new concept.
Oh man ... sounds like we will have fun trying to guess what the new WHQ character could be based on namedrops in the fluff. It also seems like WHQ could be a cool way to preview upcoming lines for AoS!
Manchu wrote: I don't know how selling a product can destroy someone's credibility - short of them lying about it. If you think a salesman would need to lie about Silver Tower in order to sell it ... jeez, I dunno what to tell you or frankly why you are even bothering posting in this thread. I am not saying the product is perfect - and it certainly will not live up to the treasured childhood memories that people have built up over decades - but if you go into a purchase with that mindset, it's on you and not the business from which you buy it.
If the store owner knows what his regular customers expect out of a game, and he perceives after looking at the rules that new Quest will not be that game. And he also knows many of them are susceptable to go out and buy the game purely out of nostalgia for the old, then it would behoove that store to order less boxes to avoid getting stuck with unsold stock on the shelves, and while it's going above and beyond, it might be appreciated to give those nostalgia people a heads up that they might want to check the game out before ordering.
Pretty much this. (I think also it's the fact that it's the AOS version of WHQ, instead of something more traditional, and all that goes along with that.)
Also it's the biggest online games store retailer in the country, I believe, and probably the largest FLGS as well. He'll have no trouble moving the copies that he does order. They recently told me that AOS is outselling 40K at the store 2 or 3 to 1 these days.
I did get some details about the gameplay.
The rooms are always random. There is some fluff on the card when you flip over a new room. There's also a "choose your own adventure" style thing where you look up in the book based on what you rolled to get a brief paragraph of fluff.
Advances are pull 2 cards, keep 1. You keep advances and treasure between maps. No other leveling up, no towns between maps, no stores to buy and sell things.
Fixed stats like AOS (we've already seen this in the images).
He re-echoed that there will be expansions and support - this is a new main line from GW. They should have a preview of the first expansion (maybe the additional heroes mentioned before in this thread) in the next few weeks. Mentioned the rules for all the other AOS heroes to include them in WHQ.
Manchu wrote: Oh man ... sounds like we will have fun trying to guess what the new WHQ character could be based on namedrops in the fluff. It also seems like WHQ could be a cool way to preview upcoming lines for AoS!
First expansion characters, IMO, will likely be like the Tenebrae Shard or Mistweaver Saih: A new faction previewed with elements shown there.
In the day and age of free information most of us know exactly what they will be buying even before entering any store, for a store owner to badmouth a product they sell is revealing why some stores see little to no sales. I think that fella actually believes is in a strange mission to dissuade people to enjoy things he does not. Just weird!
Their store their funeral I guess.
The new images of the WHQ looks better and better. The paintjobs and sculpts are top quality. But I still like the old figs too. Just look what I found on my old sprues box.
They aged very well IMO.
Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games.
haha nope.
Having actually spent a not insignificant portion of my life playing Warhammer Quest (and fighting through hallways full of wandering monsters), it absolutely is not a middle finger to the old guard gamers like me. It's a "welcome back to the GW you knew and loved". It absolutely is a middle finger to the people that want Age of Sigmar - and by extension, GW - to fail, however, so there is that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.
God, you have no idea. Warhammer Quest was like one of those games that was painful to play but you kept coming back to because you kept convincing yourself that the last 3.5 hours of fighting minotaurs and giant spiders lined up in several corridors was "fun". But, by god, it was! I think... just stop rolling 1's, wizard! Argh!
Look If it was a re release with new stuff fine, good. but its not Its just another middle finger to anybody who loved the old games.
haha nope.
Having actually spent a not insignificant portion of my life playing Warhammer Quest (and fighting through hallways full of wandering monsters), it absolutely is not a middle finger to the old guard gamers like me. It's a "welcome back to the GW you knew and loved". It absolutely is a middle finger to the people that want Age of Sigmar - and by extension, GW - to fail, however, so there is that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Glad to hear about them ditching the "roll a one phase", my buddies were just regaling me with stories of getting into trouble with that (among other things). Some of this stuff, I suspect, is more fun to remember than to re-live.
God, you have no idea. Warhammer Quest was like one of those games that was painful to play but you kept coming back to because you kept convincing yourself that the last 3.5 hours of fighting minotaurs and giant spiders lined up in several corridors was "fun". But, by god, it was! I think... just stop rolling 1's, wizard! Argh!
Agree to differ on the first point . Again my dislike of AoS. Does bias me to this re imaging. But i do love WHQ/ Dungeon, type games. They were my real first exposure to gaming so perhaps that is why. Maybe I will give it a go depending on this expansion, though I'm hoping that flying sigmarine is not the ranger
saying that maybe ill try to find the rules of the old one and knock up some stuff. cheers. i have a project now.
I think it would be fun to run an "original" party with the app expansion rules. Darkoath Chieftan for the barbarian, Battle Mage for the grey wizard, Waywatcher Lord for the ranger and a Warden King for the dwarf.
I am hoping that even if I don't get this game on launch I can get the app and bring a hero along to some games. My AoS army is based upon a "heroic party" of sorts so I have lots of great candidates to play games with already.
Also I asked on the point system for AoS. He said he didn't get tons of time with the book but as he was flipping through he did see Nagash is 700 points now. No idea on the army composition on whats a normal game of points for AoS.
Take with salt
Supposedly 2000pts is considered the "standard" game, and the point level around which the army-composition rules were written.
At 2000pts, you're supposedly limited to 3 heroes, and 3 monsters, of which Nagash counts as one of EACH, as does, supposedly any massive monster-sized hero.
That was from... I believe Heelenhammer's twitter?
Chopxsticks wrote: Hmm I dont know how I feel about "First Expansion" "next few weeks"
Is this like content that should have been in the base game already kind of expansion??
Will have to wait and see..
since it appears to be minis, no, because having more of them would have pushed the price up (much as we might wish it not to be so)
True, but we dont know what to expect regardless. 4 mini's doesnt qualify as an "Expansion" in my mind. Thats like an add-on. If they package those 4 mini's and throw in game tiles, I'd call it an expansion.
This is just me though, so im really interested to see what the standard is going to be set at for GW, "expansions"
Tzeetch Gors? TZEETCH MARKED BEAST MEN!?!?!?! I still got some old metal khorn-gors. I can't wait to see them do slaanesh ones, and revist the plague and khorn ones.
Also the Mist weaver almost looks like a slaanesh worshiper with that staff.
Manchu wrote: ...let's just deal with this supposed "criticism" right now because it sounds like a problem with the customer ("but I wanted X") rather than the product.
This I take real issue with. A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product specifically so it can play on that name while marketing the new product, then totally abdicate any responsibility for expectations that has created in their customer base. GW wanted to trade on the nostalgia surrounding WHQ, that's why the only clue anywhere on the branding for this new game that it isn't just a straight update of the old product is the artwork featuring a Sigmarine, so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's.
Is it worth it to go to my "local" (read: 1.5 hours train ride away) GW tomorrow to check out the minis in person? Or do the pics convey enough of the details, i.e. do the cultists have crazy detail on their backs or weapons not visible in the current pics?
A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product specifically so it can play on that name while marketing the new product, then totally abdicate any responsibility for expectations that has created in their customer base.
It happens in pretty much any industry, its called brand. Thats why you see" Established since 18XX" on many brand names trying to make their brand somewhat more prestigious... Surely when the company established itself had different products and the brand was very different from what it is in the present day. Its the brand evolving and adapting to the modern times. You may not like the changes and I respect that but companies do get to use the names and brands they have rights on and spin them the way they think its the best for their goals. Client expectations ( in this particular case) are only visible in sales numbers so you can only vote with your money mate.
Lockark wrote: Tzeetch Gors? TZEETCH MARKED BEAST MEN!?!?!?! I still got some old metal khorn-gors. I can't wait to see them do slaanesh ones, and revist the plague and khorn ones
Yeah, same here! I have Khorngors and Pestigors and now I'm so happy to be adding some Tzangors to my Warhammer Skirmish/Mordheim Beastmen mix!
Yodhrin wrote: so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's
That is a severely entitled viewpoint. The trade name itself is not a representation that the product will live up to anyone's nostalgia. GW wants to make a dungeon crawler board game leveraging their IP. "Warhammer Quest" is a perfectly appropriate title for that product, whatever a given customer would prefer or might expect. It's easy to tell if someone has a genuine interest in a product because they will look at it for what it is, rather than what it (apparently) "ought" to be.
Manchu wrote: ...let's just deal with this supposed "criticism" right now because it sounds like a problem with the customer ("but I wanted X") rather than the product.
This I take real issue with. A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product specifically so it can play on that name while marketing the new product, then totally abdicate any responsibility for expectations that has created in their customer base. GW wanted to trade on the nostalgia surrounding WHQ, that's why the only clue anywhere on the branding for this new game that it isn't just a straight update of the old product is the artwork featuring a Sigmarine, so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's.
Sure they can. GW is already guilty of it. They called Warhammer 8th edition, "Warhammer Fantasy Battles". They called Warhammer 40k 3rd edition, "Warhammer 40,000".
Any way, Warhammer Quest has been out of production for almost twenty years. Most of the complains are coming from older gents in their 30's like myself who just can't stand change and who love wearing the rose-tinted glasses. I, however, despite loving Warhammer Quest, know that is was a horribly broken and flawed system. (Complaints from the younger whipper-snappers are irrelevant and mostly based on "sigmarines are the dumb!11!1" and easily ignored) My only complaint is that this revamp didn't come out _sooner_. If a customer chooses to be wholly uneducated (which is really, really hard to do nowadays) and thinks that this is somehow the _exact same game_ that was released 21 years ago, then I would call that customer a liar.
Yodhrin wrote: A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product
Wow, entitled much?
Not much, no.
When making a new, AoS based, board game, GW had any amount of opportunity to choose a different style or name at the very minimum.
They didn't, they chose a dungeon crawler and called it Warhammer Quest.
They did that in the full knowledge of what that entailed. If they have (and let's leave the emphasis on that if for the time being) departed from that legacy, knowingly or ineptly, then fans of the old game will have every right to feel negatively about it.
Binabik15 wrote: Is it worth it to go to my "local" (read: 1.5 hours train ride away) GW tomorrow to check out the minis in person? Or do the pics convey enough of the details, i.e. do the cultists have crazy detail on their backs or weapons not visible in the current pics?
The actual minis are very impressive, but I'm not sure I'd make that kind of journey to go see them. The official pictures show most of the detail, seeing things and holding them in real life just underlines how lovely they are.
Baron Klatz wrote: They can't? Oh, Nintendo is in for some bad news then....
Exalted - I can imagine these naysayers are the same ones who are like "dual screens? how could Nintendo brand their handheld with their Nintendo logo when i'm used to my handhelds having one screen! this will fail utterly!" 100 million units sold later...
Azreal13 wrote: If they have (and let's leave the emphasis on that if for the time being) departed from that legacy, knowingly or ineptly, then fans of the old game will have every right to feel negatively about it.
People can and will be upset about anything at all ... I don't know where this idea of "having every right" comes from, except justifying entitlement ("__ ruined my childhood"). It's not impossible that Silver Tower could "depart" from WHQ's "legacy" in a way that makes it a better game for some, or even most, of its current customers ... and of course some people would still be upset that it wasn't what they played in the past, or at least not as they remember it (to which I say, uh fine, I guess). I mean, to use your example, Phantom Menace is a terrible movie whether Star Wars is plastered on it or not. The same could be true of Silver Tower vis-a-vis the WHQ brand. But it should be criticized for what it is rather than whoever's idiosyncratic sense of its "legacy." Plus there are no indications that the game is bad ... the problem here seems to be that the game "could be bad" or maybe some people just presume it will be because for them GW is always and everywhere bad (except in the imaginary Gold Age of Yore) and/or they hate Age of Sigmar.
Baron Klatz wrote: They can't? Oh, Nintendo is in for some bad news then....
Exalted for giggles.
In serious news, I'm gonna try to nab the skaven off of whoever around me buys the game (will still bring them so that they can be used within the game obv.) Will also be hopping to see some skaven heroes get rules (Warlock Engineer could be fun), as I doubt daemons will be.
Yodhrin wrote: A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product
Wow, entitled much?
When making a new, AoS based, board game, GW had any amount of opportunity to choose a different style or name at the very minimum.
That would be the dumbest move they could do, because they already own the branding for Warhammer Quest. So, make a new Warhammer Quest. What they did was in fact the smartest thing they could do. Use their pre-existing brand that has name recognition.
Azreal13 wrote: then fans of the old game will have every right to feel negatively about it.
Haha, well, then, they wouldn't be buying it regardless of what it's called. They are not customers.
Azreal13 wrote: It could be The Phantom Menace all over again.
not even comparable. if WHQ rules suck I'll still be delighted to have the miniatures and tiles etc. All I had after seeing that preview showing of Phantom Menace was a headache and a palpable sense of disappointment and disbelief.
And, let's be honest here, it is not very hard to make a game that has better rules than the original Warhammer Quest.
What astounds me is that there's dozens, if not hundreds, of preview copies of WQ2 kicking around and there's no discussions of the rules. There's a few snippets here and there, but most of these LGS owners are too lazy to spend nine minutes typing up some impressions and taking nice quality photos - y'know, with the horrible adverse effect of drumming up sales.
Anyways, what little info we have already informs me that the core system is better than WQ1. With WQ2 we roll dice and assign them to power stuff? Sounds like more choices than "roll a die, oops you missed! turn over loser, go take a nap for ten minutes"
streetsamurai wrote: I don't believe this 30% figure at all. Much more credible rumourmonger than this guy have stated that AOS is a disaster sale-wise
All the rumours along these lines that I have seen tell you more about what the people spreading them want to believe than what might be true.
After taking a "heart-breaking" look of our demo copy and reading the rules, we have cut our order of WHQ by 70%. We advise caution in purchasing this product to ensure you know exactly what you are getting (or in this case, not getting).
Which means what?
Means the LGS owner is putting down an exciting new product on the eve of its release ... Genius!
Perhaps he knows his own local market better than folk on the internet do, and can anticipate that they will not be satisfied by whatever has changed/been removed relative to the original WHQ? Or is it only OK to credit FLGS owners with intelligence and local knowledge when they're praising AoS products to the heavens?
Exactly, I find it weird that some are criticizing the LGS owner. If he think the product is lacking, he should be complimented for giving this warning, not the oppossite. I guess some people think that a LGS should have a used car dealership mentality.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't believe this 30% figure at all. Much more credible rumourmonger than this guy have stated that AOS is a disaster sale-wise
All the rumours along these lines that I have seen tell you more about what the people spreading them want to believe than what might be true.
Might be true, but I doubt a guy like Hasting would jeopardize his reputation for that, even though he clearly despise AOS. Also, as some mentionned, I find it highly improbable that AOS nearly doubled the sales of WHFB, yet, profit were downs. Which would meant a pretty drastic reduction of sales for 40k, even with the HH success.(which we all knows sold like hot cake). Seems even more dubious when tou
I must say I'm still excited about this release. A bit dissapointing that GW seems to continue it's trend of releasing half baked product (at least, when compared to what they were doing a decade or two ago), but games look cool even considering that the newest ICV2 reports doesn't have AOS in the top 5, whilt WHFB was in it.
streetsamurai wrote: I guess some people think that a LGS should have a used car dealership mentality.
Here's a really good example of a rational, ethical mentality as far as owning/managing a LGS goes:
Smellingsalts wrote: I own an LGS. The reason many companies send out advanced copies of games is so that people can play them and test them out for themselves. Rather than tell your customer base that the game is terrible, demo a game for them and see if they like it. There are stores in my town with employees who bad-talked Warmachine for years and told every customer that 40K was a better game. The result was that they clearanced out all of their Warmachine and no-one plays it in their store, while my Warmachine leagues boomed. It's ok to have your own opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. I personally refuse to play Train games and Magic, but I would be cutting my wrists if I actively prevented people from buying those games. I train my clerks to ask what people like and guide them towards games that match those likes, but if a customer decides that he wants to buy a particular game, my clerks let him buy it. I have clerks that like games involving cats, but can you imagine them discouraging a sale because the game chosen doesn't have a single cat in it? I try to inform my customers about games, but in a neutral way. I provide computers for them to go on Board Game Geek and check the ratings of games. I run demos for them to try it out and make up their own minds about a game. Most sales people in the gaming industry are taught never to talk down another company's product. It makes you look petty and defensive. In sales, you can't discourage purchases and survive long. As for WHQ, the old WHQ played like a smaller version of WFB. You can't expect the new version to play like that. The new version is similar to AOS in that it's easy to learn and play, and each character can do a bunch of actions in their turn. Here's one cool improvement, there is no "roll a one phase." So your wizard doesn't have to feel guilty about wandering monsters swamping your party.
streetsamurai wrote: I doubt a guy like Hasting would jeopardize his reputation for that
streetsamurai wrote: I find it highly improbable that AOS nearly doubled the sales of WHFB, yet, profit were downs. Which would meant a pretty drastic reduction of sales for 40k, even with the HH success.(which we all knows sold like hot cake).
Of course Age of Sigmar has sold more than WHFB. I literally cannot believe that people refuse to believe this. Anyone reading this, set aside whatever your feelings are for the rules - we all know WHFB was in the dumps with unsold product filling up store shelves. No new players were being created and players were leaving. New releases were engineered specifically to get the shrinking player base to buy new units. Age of Sigmar comes along and now there's new plastic kits that are brilliantly engineered - the same grumpy WHFB players now play 9th Age or KoW but are still buying Warhammer kits at the same rate they were before (as in, almost none), but there's new sales from new kits of new armies. It's preposterous to think that Age of Sigmar's sales are worse than Warhammer's.
streetsamurai wrote: I guess some people think that a LGS should have a used car dealership mentality.
Here's a really good example of a rational, ethical mentality as far as owning/managing a LGS goes:
Smellingsalts wrote: I own an LGS. The reason many companies send out advanced copies of games is so that people can play them and test them out for themselves. Rather than tell your customer base that the game is terrible, demo a game for them and see if they like it. There are stores in my town with employees who bad-talked Warmachine for years and told every customer that 40K was a better game. The result was that they clearanced out all of their Warmachine and no-one plays it in their store, while my Warmachine leagues boomed. It's ok to have your own opinion, but it's just that, your opinion. I personally refuse to play Train games and Magic, but I would be cutting my wrists if I actively prevented people from buying those games. I train my clerks to ask what people like and guide them towards games that match those likes, but if a customer decides that he wants to buy a particular game, my clerks let him buy it. I have clerks that like games involving cats, but can you imagine them discouraging a sale because the game chosen doesn't have a single cat in it? I try to inform my customers about games, but in a neutral way. I provide computers for them to go on Board Game Geek and check the ratings of games. I run demos for them to try it out and make up their own minds about a game. Most sales people in the gaming industry are taught never to talk down another company's product. It makes you look petty and defensive. In sales, you can't discourage purchases and survive long. As for WHQ, the old WHQ played like a smaller version of WFB. You can't expect the new version to play like that. The new version is similar to AOS in that it's easy to learn and play, and each character can do a bunch of actions in their turn. Here's one cool improvement, there is no "roll a one phase." So your wizard doesn't have to feel guilty about wandering monsters swamping your party.
streetsamurai wrote: I doubt a guy like Hasting would jeopardize his reputation for that
Misinformation isn't always intentional.
But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ? also, as some have said, the guy probably knows what kind of game his customers loves, and who they are. If he sells mostly to old veteran players, i think it is laudable that he warns them that despite the game being called WQ, it share very little with the original WQ
But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ? also, as some have said, the guy probably knows what kind of game his customers loves, and who they are. If he sells mostly to old veteran players, i think it is laudable that he warns them that despite the game being called WQ, it share very little with the original WQ
Wouldnt that be his impression though? Bad rules to some, good rules to others, its matter of opinion. Also couldnt he warn them in a different fashion, than taking a stand on a public facing Facebook page? Whats that saying "Dont bite the hand that feeds"
Is GW not going to see that and go hmmm, maybe not send that guy another anything before release date... His post to his customers is now a topic being discussed here, so you could argue the repercussions are greater.
Rules aside, 51 models for $150 when each clam pack is roughly $25-$40 these days, that alone is insane value. the 6 Hero's alone pay for the entire box!!
GW is releasing a new version of an old game complete with a nice set of miniatures and it gets spun into some terrible betreyal of the customer. Yeah, clearly we were better off with them releasing nothing instead. Some people just aren't going to be happy because they personally know anything AoSGW releases is going to be bad so naturally that's what they see. Take that and apply it to the profit rumors; the same could be true with Hastings saying that AoS is failing. Coupled with the chance he could be judging what were no doubt weaker 2015 sales (compared to 2016) as the overall trend and I can see how Hastings may honestly be giving what he sees as the truth. Meanwhile, others with more up-to-date information and less bias could also be correct with the 30% statistic, especially if 40k sales dropped overall.
All of this can go the other way too; it's entirely possible that a positive bias is leading to an overly optimistic opinion, but something like "30% of profits" sounds less subjective than "AoS is failing hard". And with the buying sprees of discontinued models associated with the Grand Alliance book releases and also the value of Start Collecting boxes I think it's more likely that AoS has seen boosted sales this year then it tanking hard.
streetsamurai wrote: But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ?
Whether someone likes a game or not is subjective. The LGS owner is not there to make sure you only buy the "correct" games. Smellingsalts covered this in his post.
Just looking at the contents of Silver Tower, I think there is a lot more potential good than potential bad. But of course that is for each person to decide for themselves.
But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ? also, as some have said, the guy probably knows what kind of game his customers loves, and who they are. If he sells mostly to old veteran players, i think it is laudable that he warns them that despite the game being called WQ, it share very little with the original WQ
Wouldnt that be his impression though? Bad rules to some, good rules to others, its matter of opinion. Also couldnt he warn them in a different fashion, than taking a stand on a public facing Facebook page? Whats that saying "Dont bite the hand that feeds"
Is GW not going to see that and go hmmm, maybe not send that guy another anything before release date... His post to his customers is now a topic being discussed here, so you could argue the repercussions are greater.
I'm not a post modern thinker. I don't believe in the absolute relativism of everything. But good point about being so vocal about it. it probably have been better for him to be a lot more discreet in his warning.
streetsamurai wrote: But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ?
Whether someone likes a game or not is subjective. The LGS owner is not there to make sure you only buy the "correct" games. Smellingsalts covered this in his post.
I disagree on this. For me the guy only gave a warning by saying that the game was missing numerous of the elements that made the original great. that way, he inform his customer and reduce the chance of buyer remorse. As said previously, he probably should have done it in a more discreet manner though
streetsamurai wrote: the guy only gave a warning by saying that the game was missing numerous of the elements that made the original great
That must have been in another post. The one I saw was completely vague. But again (third time?) it's not really important that this guy is undermining his own sales so much as just pointing out that this kind of empty negativity needs to be called out for what it is ... otherwise it's starts snowballing into people saying, like you kind of just unconsciously did, well Silver Tower is no good because there was this other game in the past that was different.
streetsamurai wrote: But what if the rules are indeed terrible ? Should he still act neutrally toward the product, or should he warn his customers ?
Whether someone likes a game or not is subjective. The LGS owner is not there to make sure you only buy the "correct" games. Smellingsalts covered this in his post.
Just looking at the contents of Silver Tower, I think there is a lot more potential good than potential bad. But of course that is for each person to decide for themselves.
Releases like Silver Tower feel like a bit of an olive branch to me. I look at the state of both their major games and despite playing from 2001-2010 or so, I feel like after taking a break from them and trying to come back, I have no clue what I'm looking at. So a standalone game that's independent of those rules means that I can still play games in an IP I like. I'm not particularly thrilled about their pricing structure, but that's another topic.
I did come here looking for those ROB boards though and I have no clue what page they were on..
MLaw wrote: I look at the state of both their major games and despite playing from 2001-2010 or so, I feel like after taking a break from them and trying to come back, I have no clue what I'm looking at. So a standalone game that's independent of those rules means that I can still play games in an IP I like.
This is an excellent point and the ease with which stuff can move back and forth between AoS and WHQ is I'm sure no coincidence!
Releases like Silver Tower feel like a bit of an olive branch to me. I look at the state of both their major games and despite playing from 2001-2010 or so, I feel like after taking a break from them and trying to come back, I have no clue what I'm looking at. So a standalone game that's independent of those rules means that I can still play games in an IP I like. I'm not particularly thrilled about their pricing structure, but that's another topic.
I did come here looking for those ROB boards though and I have no clue what page they were on..
Check the last spoiler tag in the first post on the first page of this thread...
streetsamurai wrote: the guy only gave a warning by saying that the game was missing numerous of the elements that made the original great
That must have been in another post. The one I saw was completely vague. But again (third time?) it's not really important that this guy is undermining his own sales so much as just pointing out that this kind of empty negativity needs to be called out for what it is ... otherwise it's starts snowballing into people saying, like you kind of just unconsciously did, well Silver Tower is no good because there was this other game in the past that was different.
You're putting a lot of word in my mouth. I never said that WQST was a bad game. In fact, we barley know anything about the gameplay. I only said that for me, meeplemart post was obiously intended for veteran gamers who expect this game to be as complete as the orignial WQ (and it is clearly not the case). From the little we know, it look more similar to Hero quest than WQ. And I much prefer a store owner telling me clearly what he thinks about a product, than him being cryptic in hope of getting a sale out of me.
BTW, if the rules and the games indded turned out to be poor, would your opinion of the whole situation change?
The video looks awesome. Minis are exceptional. Game looks fun to me, never played originals. Not that it's a deal to me but I don't think the warrior priest is scaled that out of line, looks smaller than the Stormcast.
Only thing stopping me is I'm not hot on the Tzeentch aesthetic or any of the Order factions right now.
Game looks fun. I don't like that they are no real levelling up to speak of, but I guess they could always introduce it with a new expansion. Minis are gorgeous. Don't really like the tiles, they are too busy and weird.
Micro-transaction app seems gaky though. I don't mind paying for actual cards, bookrules and minis, but paying for virtual cards and rules is a definitve no for me.
And you put a lot of words into the mouth of that LGS owner. That's kind of how it works, an illustration of my point.
streetsamurai wrote: And I much prefer a store owner telling me clearly what he thinks about a product, than him being cryptic in hope of getting a sale out of me.
streetsamurai wrote: BTW, if the rules and the games indded turned out to be poor, would your opinion of the whole situation change?
Nope:
Manchu wrote: I mean, to use your example, Phantom Menace is a terrible movie whether Star Wars is plastered on it or not. The same could be true of Silver Tower vis-a-vis the WHQ brand. But it should be criticized for what it is rather than whoever's idiosyncratic sense of its "legacy." Plus there are no indications that the game is bad ...
Releases like Silver Tower feel like a bit of an olive branch to me. I look at the state of both their major games and despite playing from 2001-2010 or so, I feel like after taking a break from them and trying to come back, I have no clue what I'm looking at. So a standalone game that's independent of those rules means that I can still play games in an IP I like. I'm not particularly thrilled about their pricing structure, but that's another topic.
I did come here looking for those ROB boards though and I have no clue what page they were on..
Check the last spoiler tag in the first post on the first page of this thread...
Thank you, has a pricepoint been mentioned? I didn't see that either. They look nice as expected.
And you put a lot of words into the mouth of that LGS owner. That's kind of how it works, an illustration of my point.
streetsamurai wrote: And I much prefer a store owner telling me clearly what he thinks about a product, than him being cryptic in hope of getting a sale out of me.
streetsamurai wrote: BTW, if the rules and the games indded turned out to be poor, would your opinion of the whole situation change?
Nope:
Manchu wrote: I mean, to use your example, Phantom Menace is a terrible movie whether Star Wars is plastered on it or not. The same could be true of Silver Tower vis-a-vis the WHQ brand. But it should be criticized for what it is rather than whoever's idiosyncratic sense of its "legacy." Plus there are no indications that the game is bad ...
Lol. well, I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote
Just seems we have a different perspective on the situation.
Back on topic. I wonder if there will be a way to buy the actual physical cards of the new heroes?
NinthMusketeer wrote: And with the buying sprees of discontinued models associated with the Grand Alliance book releases...
This. With the rate at which people snatched up those models that were put up on the chopping block, it's likely that GW will try to attribute that to increased AoS sales...when it's more likely that it was really just people trying to get stuff to sell for a substantial markup on ebay later, or people who have kind of always wanted to get the models eventually, and their hands were 'forced' to make the purchases before they were gone forever. Heck, the run on Bretonnian stuff was so amazing, they made another order from the factory for a bunch of the kits, and then that re-order sold out in less than a day...
I do hope that this new Warhammer Quest game sells like hot cakes...only so that it will speak to GW about what we as fans and miniature gamers want, and perhaps it will get them to consider making actual published expansions for it. At this point, from the leaks that I have seen, I'm a little underwhelmed with what they've done with the WQ IP...when contrasted with the original. I will likely adapt this new stuff to the old rules and enjoy the heck out of all the pretty new models.
Binabik15 wrote: Is it worth it to go to my "local" (read: 1.5 hours train ride away) GW tomorrow to check out the minis in person? Or do the pics convey enough of the details, i.e. do the cultists have crazy detail on their backs or weapons not visible in the current pics?
The actual minis are very impressive, but I'm not sure I'd make that kind of journey to go see them. The official pictures show most of the detail, seeing things and holding them in real life just underlines how lovely they are.
The preorder page has a new design with several features
Automatically Appended Next Post: 'Playthrough' video
Edit: It turns out to be just an introduction
Maybe I have to go, because I can't see the usual 360 pics and the vid doesn't work for me. Might be my tablet, but no close look for me :/
Paying that much money for thirty cool minis (can't count thee familiar and Skaven clones, they are such distinct sculpts that multiples are a bad thing), sigh, I dunno. At least not before really seeing them. (I'll end up buying it anyway, I think I just want to see Ghurk in the flesh again before I bitz order him or buy a Glottkin kit...).
PS: I think I have all the parts to make a great pit fighter, top knot and oversizd biceps included, but what model/parts would be a good foundation for an old school witch hunter?
I like the idea of the app, im not against in app purchases, Hell the price point is great!! I pay more for LoL character skins, I am rather pleased with PP's WarRoom app and it works well with the game.
That being said, this app just looks BAD... like really bad. The character sheets look nice, why would you make the app look so plain and generic...
streetsamurai wrote: the guy only gave a warning by saying that the game was missing numerous of the elements that made the original great
That must have been in another post. The one I saw was completely vague. But again (third time?) it's not really important that this guy is undermining his own sales so much as just pointing out that this kind of empty negativity needs to be called out for what it is ... otherwise it's starts snowballing into people saying, like you kind of just unconsciously did, well Silver Tower is no good because there was this other game in the past that was different.
You're putting a lot of word in my mouth. I never said that WQST was a bad game. In fact, we barley know anything about the gameplay. I only said that for me, meeplemart post was obiously intended for veteran gamers who expect this game to be as complete as the orignial WQ (and it is clearly not the case). From the little we know, it look more similar to Hero quest than WQ. And I much prefer a store owner telling me clearly what he thinks about a product, than him being cryptic in hope of getting a sale out of me.
BTW, if the rules and the games indded turned out to be poor, would your opinion of the whole situation change?
Chopxsticks wrote: I like the idea of the app, im not against in app purchases, Hell the price point is great!! I pay more for LoL character skins, I am rather pleased with PP's WarRoom app and it works well with the game.
That being said, this app just looks BAD... like really bad. The character sheets look nice, why would you make the app look so plain and generic...
The screenshots are just from the store page. I am sure the rest of the app will be designed to fit with the printed stuff. £20 for 37 heroes, skill cards and treasure cards doesn't sound too bad. The recent sale on the AOS app establishes a precident that we might see this discounted in the future.
To see the 360's just click on the bit that says view more images.
Edit I just saw the rest of the screenshots from the app and it does look bad
They have never really had one that ties to the standard 40K ranges, part of me says good job as well as a Quest style 40K game would be the death of my wallet.
streetsamurai wrote: Nah, there never was something similar to WQ in 40k. Space Hulk or space Crusade was the closest thing, but far from being as complete as WQ was
Automatically Appended Next Post: I must say that it is a bit dissapointing to see that there is so few unique models. Overkill had a lot more
I forgot about Space Crusade.. I actually have some of those minis kicking around..
I'm really disliking this app concept with the $1 per single hero data sheets. The single-pack heroes are already close to $30 a pop, asking more to use them just seems incredibly nickel-and-diming. That being said, I think most micro-transactions are crappy.
I've been coming around to the concept of AOS, but I think the price tags on these new releases will be what ultimately keeps me from joining in. I think if I get WHQ, I'll just pick up the main game and avoid other purchases.
Where the app dlc is a benefit is if you have some old minis lying around which can be used as heroes. I have the empire mages, a goblin shaman, a witch hunter and a few chaos heroes lying around. Paying a few quid to use those doesn't seem too bad. Of course you could always use other companies' minis.
Regarding unique sculpts it is not so different from Deathwatch. It has 35 unique sculpts, including the servo skull and homing beacon. This has 30. I will definitely be doing a bit of head and weapon swapping and maybe a bit of limb bending with a hair dryer if I get ambitious.
RoperPG wrote:When you sell things for a living, you don't dictate what the customer does or doesn't want. You sell them what they want.
Isn't that what GW does though? They don't sell to us what we want, they try and dictate for us what to buy. Hopefully now this has turned around and GW is giving us the customer what they want now.
Main picture is some very interesting look fey Sylvaneth - part elf part dryad. I think they look really interesting, and in combination with the new mistweaver saih and tenebreal shard we can assume that the new AoS elf aesthetic is completly new and quite alien to the old.
Yeah agreed. And if the sculpts match up with the art then I think a very unique and coherent style for the sylvaneth. I just hope they give the guys an option of helmets with antlers
The prices for hero cards seem pretty reasonable to me, ~$1 USD isn't bad at all. I'd guess the bundle is a decent value but hard to say without knowing how many cards are in it.
The app is out on the 21St.
Regarding the game I am liking the look of the components a lot.
I am sure there are a lot of old school fans who are dissapointed it is not more generic, but the layout if the various pieces looks very clear. The heroes each have thier own coloured dice which fit in the slots on the character card. When the character is wounded or stun the token occupies a dice slot. The hero can then spend a dice to remove the tokens. The renown wheel is very easy to understand. It all looks like a game that will run very smoothly after set up.
Regarding the new minis, Gw have really got going with aos after a very slow start. The Orruk stuff was great. The flesh eaters is a very clever spin on existing minis. The Tzeentch looks fantastic as does the new Sylvaneth concept art. With the new rules and the campaign in the summer Aos is really moving in the right direction.
I was reading through the WD walk through and I was kinda worried that the game seemed too easy. The four heroes blasted through the dungeon without hardly taking any damage at all. Even the gaunt summoner and the ogre went down super easily.
Samurai_Eduh wrote: I was reading through the WD walk through and I was kinda worried that the game seemed too easy. The four heroes blasted through the dungeon without hardly taking any damage at all. Even the gaunt summoner and the ogre went down super easily.
They probably fudged it to make it look easier. I imagine the game will be at least challenging.
Main picture is some very interesting look fey Sylvaneth - part elf part dryad. I think they look really interesting, and in combination with the new mistweaver saih and tenebreal shard we can assume that the new AoS elf aesthetic is completly new and quite alien to the old.
Thank god.
High Fantasy elves have been sculpted to death and back. Not saying it's a bad look, just glad someone is opening a window.
So it looks like you can buy the individual heroes and skill/treasure packs for £0.79, or you can get the mega bundle which gives you 37 heroes(not including the base game guys-they come free with the app), a skill and treasure pack which is £20
More info about the app:
ABOUT THE APP
The Warhammer Quest Silver Tower app allows you to create a hero and guide them through their trials in the sinister Silver Tower, tracking their dice, skills and treasure, and those all-important amulet pieces. Determine which skills and treasure your hero will carry over from game to game and add even more to your game with downloadable, app-exclusive skill and treasure cards. You'll also find more than 35 additional heroes to download and use in your games, from the sneaky Grot Shaman to the charismatic Sorceress, and many more.
PLAY
Choose your Trial and follow your hero as he fights his way through the twisting labyrinth of the Silver Tower. Track their dice, collect their Treasure and Skill cards in an easy-to-read format and note which cards they will keep as they continue on to their next adventure.
HEROES
Choose your hero from a huge selection. View their stats, weapons, Traits and Renown and whatever Skills and Treasures they've managed to claim during their dangerous quests.
MY COLLECTION
View your Characters, Skill cards and Treasure cards. All ten heroes from the boxed game are included, as well as the thirty-six Treasure and Skill cards from the box – and more are available in the Shop. View all the details of everything you have available – select the right warriors and equipment for your next journey into the Silver Tower.
SHOP
Add new options to your game! Choose from a selection of more than 35 new heroes, all based on plastic Citadel Miniatures from the Warhammer Age of Sigmar range. Buy packs of new Skill and Treasure cards to give you more ways to defeat the dread servants of the Gaunt Summoner. With so many additional options, no two games of Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower will ever be the same.
WHERE TO GET IT iOS: You can download the Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower app for your iPhone and iPad from the App Store.
Android: If you have an Android phone or tablet, you can download the app from the Google Play store.
Any purchases you make within the app will be available on all your devices on the same platform, so you can read them wherever you go, on whatever device you have to hand.
This makes me wonder if there will be some real expansions, or these lame virtual add ons are all that well get. Really disappointed to see gw going this route. they have been doing a lot of good things lately, but microtransactions for virtual cards is an atrocious move imo
streetsamurai wrote: This makes me wonder if there will be some real expansions, or these lame virtual add ons are all that well get. Really disappointed to see gw going this route. they have been doing a lot of good things lately, but microtransactions for virtual cards is an atrocious move imo
Hardly any different from buying expansion packs from GW to be honest. I like that they're offering digital stuff. Saves space.
Main picture is some very interesting look fey Sylvaneth - part elf part dryad. I think they look really interesting, and in combination with the new mistweaver saih and tenebreal shard we can assume that the new AoS elf aesthetic is completly new and quite alien to the old.
Thank god.
High Fantasy elves have been sculpted to death and back. Not saying it's a bad look, just glad someone is opening a window.
I agree completely. I mean the Tenebreal is clearly a shadowkin, but the Saih looks so utterly alien that it seems impossible to even associate it with an old faction.
Also, it looks like from the caption on the picture (or at least what I think I'm reading through the .jpg-iness) that those wood elf "hybrids" are called Tree-Revenants.
Gunna be that guy and say that it's already been discussed.
General consensus is that the negativity is surprising, and kind of sad in multiple ways, to be honest, and that many of us here are still extremely excited by Silver Tower.
Is it the WHQ of old? No. And it doesn't have to be.
Yodhrin wrote: so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's
That is a severely entitled viewpoint. The trade name itself is not a representation that the product will live up to anyone's nostalgia. GW wants to make a dungeon crawler board game leveraging their IP. "Warhammer Quest" is a perfectly appropriate title for that product, whatever a given customer would prefer or might expect. It's easy to tell if someone has a genuine interest in a product because they will look at it for what it is, rather than what it (apparently) "ought" to be.
I despise that word, "entitled", it's such a load of BS and is always deployed to shut down criticism that can't otherwise be refuted.
Almost everything about the way GW are pushing nu-WHQ is based on evoking the nostalgia people have for the original game, and even if it were not GW would have to be literally deaf, dumb, blind, and clinically stupid not to recognise that evoking a brand with a strong emotional component to it IS going to create expectations - it's their job, literally their job, to manage those expectations effectively. If they're incapable of effectively communicating to people what the product they're selling is, that's their problem and it's total horse manure to lay the blame for the fallout of that failure on the heads of potential customers.
If GW were to next "bring back" Mordheim using Mordheim's branding, talk about returning a "classic", repeatedly reference the original in their marketing etc, then you're damn right they would be responsible for creating an expectation that what people would be getting would be close enough to the original to justify such close comparison. If the resulting product wasn't set in Mordheim, had none of the factions of Mordheim, and completely dropped the complex post-game sequence for a much simplified system that barely met the definition of campaign progression, then calling people who react badly to the total disconnect between the product on-offer and the product "sold" to them by the marketing "entitled" is just petty trolling.
Yodhrin wrote: A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product
Wow, entitled much?
When making a new, AoS based, board game, GW had any amount of opportunity to choose a different style or name at the very minimum.
That would be the dumbest move they could do, because they already own the branding for Warhammer Quest. So, make a new Warhammer Quest. What they did was in fact the smartest thing they could do. Use their pre-existing brand that has name recognition.
In which case they must also bear the burden of dealing with the history of that brand and the reasons it has name recognition.
This isn't controversial, it's not some random thing people are inventing for this one release by GW "because they just be AoS haters y'all", creating and managing expectations is literally the whole fething point of marketing. GW can use the brand they own in any way they see fit, but if they choose to use one in a way that substantially departs from what made the brand valuable in the first place and they not only fail to adequately explain those changes but actively play on the original version, they don't get to piss and moan about all the meanie-weenie gamers who're not judging the new version solely on its own merits and it's not faaaaair
The art is interesting, I wonder if the oddities are a result of the style/artist or an indication of changes that might happen to the model lines in the future(eg heavily muscled Goblins, the different facial structure of the Lizardman, and the cyclopean Minotaur). EDIT: And I would buy the gak out of some "Spiderfang"/Forest Goblin infantry - shame the AoS format makes that kind of release unlikely.
A company owning a label is free to use it any way they want. In such use, they are no more responsible for your expectations than you are responsible for their expectations. If the staff at GW have decided to not reprint a complete copy of the original, it's probably because they feel the game, theme or mechanics are dated. They probably expect customers to be put off by such a thing - gaming is at a high right now, and there are no shortage of fresh, interesting ideas available for a consumer. To put it simply, maybe nostalgia alone isn't enough to sell a game nowadays.
So GW decides to update the mechanics, throw in a dash of AOS and try for something that's not nearly three decades old (cuz you know, the market has changed...) They expect to sell to a new wave of gamers, and possibly some old veterans.
In what area of this are you responsible for their decisions? None. Not a single one.
To argue that a well-used label, brand, insignia, device or title makes the owner 100% responsible for meeting the expectations of anyone who has ever come into contact or experienced the subject, regardless of whether or not that is their intent, is asinine.
Consumers must have realistic expectations of a product - that is your responsibility as a consumer. It is in no way the company's fault if you purchase something assuming you know what it is based on the brand or label alone. That just makes you an idiot for failing to properly research what you are working for.
The idea that just because GW is using the name they own to sell a product line they own to customers who may be interested, but not using the name to cater to customers from over three decades ago, and that is in fact somehow wrong, can be described as a form of entitlement.
Customers are 100% responsible for their purchases and expectations.
Companies are 100% responsible for their sales and marketing.
These are not interchangeable.
P.S, also, no one has heard any whining from GW because 'meanie weanie gamers.' Just the old bloods. Not as if that's new or anything, this being a thread about warhammer.
The art looks really cool. The mortal realms are really coming to life. I hope we see these on the not too distant horizon. In the storyline Alarielle is now a "seed" buried under the ground somewhere (I don't really follow it haha) so I guess we'll see these fey alongside a massive Alarielle centrepiece once she is "reborn" as it were.
Gonna place my guesses on after the Summer Campaign.
The new game is called Warhammer quest silver tower not warhammer quest second edition. It is fine to be dissapointed by that. It is fine not to buy it, but it it seems a liitle excessive to denounce it out of hand for not being the game that we already have ( which we can still play) Every games workshop store has sample copies. Soon enough there will be reviews everywhere.
The buzz I have heard from those who have played it is pretty positive. It is not like the old warhammer quest, but neither is it a one and done game like time stories. I am looking to playing through the trails a few times with different characters and different enemies. I must admit though that I am sold on the prospect of painting those miniatures, even if the game turns not to be great
Yodhrin wrote: so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's
That is a severely entitled viewpoint. The trade name itself is not a representation that the product will live up to anyone's nostalgia. GW wants to make a dungeon crawler board game leveraging their IP. "Warhammer Quest" is a perfectly appropriate title for that product, whatever a given customer would prefer or might expect. It's easy to tell if someone has a genuine interest in a product because they will look at it for what it is, rather than what it (apparently) "ought" to be.
I despise that word, "entitled", it's such a load of BS and is always deployed to shut down criticism that can't otherwise be refuted.
I mean its a tad hard to refute a temper-tantrum, given that its intangibility outside of the speaker's own head. But really now, you are decrying Games Workshop as a failure because they made a sequel to one of their old games, which doesn't live up to such a concrete and objective concept of "that legacy".
If you want to get into a verbal pissing match then please answer the following question: what does "that legacy" even mean? And no you can't just say "WHQ's kegacy" or "but WHQST doesn't have X mechanic". Actually explain what it's legacy is?
Got that? Cool, then we can count how many times you appeal to tradition and emotion. It's a classic DakkaDakka word search!
Almost everything about the way GW are pushing nu-WHQ is based on evoking the nostalgia people have for the original game,
Oh man, I too hate it when additional entries into a series share anything in common with the previous releases.[sarcasm in case you didn't catch it]
Seriously you are now accusing the entirety Games Workshop's of targetting the exact demographic that you occupy. If not entitled then that's at a minimum pretty self-centered.
and even if it were not GW would have to be literally deaf, dumb, blind, and clinically stupid not to recognise that evoking a brand with a strong emotional component to it IS going to create expectations
Well I have no emotional connection to WHQ, but even I have expectations. GW marketing going above and beyond to capture that non-Yodhdrin demographic.
(Also if you're curious, my expectation is that there better be post launch support or else I'll turn the tiles into a bloody wind chime)
Though do you seriously need someone to lecture you on the purpose of product branding?
By your own logic the entire capitalist economy has been conning us for years since they fail to punish Coke for not rebranding when they changed from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup.
- it's their job, literally their job, to manage those expectations effectively. If they're incapable of effectively communicating to people what the product they're selling is, that's their problem and it's total horse manure to lay the blame for the fallout of that failure on the heads of potential customers.
Its not their job to cure you of your self-centrism.
The message has been loud and clear, "this game is a new boxed game which mechanically (though clearly not narratively) a sequel to Warhammer Quest."
Or did they forget to add a trigger warning for "some stages of grief required"?
If GW were to next "bring back" Mordheim using Mordheim's branding, talk about returning a "classic", repeatedly reference the original in their marketing etc, then you're damn right they would be responsible for creating an expectation that what people would be getting would be close enough to the original to justify such close comparison.
Yes, repetedly referencing the original is a common symptom of a sequel.
Also what part of "we took our fantasy game and made an RPG spin-off where you move through randomly generated boards to gain loot while fighting NPC enemies" not close enough to the original.
Seriously if you want to whine about cherry-picked mechanical differences as the arbitrary sand line, then just about every major pen-and-paper/table top game has done this in at least one of its releases.
If the resulting product wasn't set in Mordheim, had none of the factions of Mordheim, and completely dropped the complex post-game sequence for a much simplified system that barely met the definition of campaign progression
Is the post game really the sticking point here for you? Because Mordheim to me has always been more about the dense board, small model count, and one model per unit skirmishy (?) gameplay.
And I'm going to be quite blunt here, you do not have the privilege of defining what qualities demarcate one game from another, Not for me nor anyone else.
, then calling people who react badly to the total disconnect between the product on-offer and the product "sold" to them by the marketing "entitled" is just petty trolling.
Uh, it was users from Dakka who called you entitled, and last I checked the voices of said valuation were not employed by GW. (In fact I'm still waiting on the check Plumbarum told me I would be receiving in the AoS launch thread.)
So how you are blaming GW for that is beyond even my biting, sarcastic wit.
Let's make sure we aren't being rude and saying other users are trolling. It's not polite, and therefore is against rule 1. Keep it civil, keep it constructive. Thanks
Yodhrin wrote: The art is interesting, I wonder if the oddities are a result of the style/artist or an indication of changes that might happen to the model lines in the future(eg heavily muscled Goblins, the different facial structure of the Lizardman, and the cyclopean Minotaur). EDIT: And I would buy the gak out of some "Spiderfang"/Forest Goblin infantry - shame the AoS format makes that kind of release unlikely.
The Lizardmans facial structure in the art is basically an exact copy of the Oldblood from the Carnosaur kit, and I believe the cyclopean Minotaur is a Cygor. So I think the muscled goblin is just a stylistic/artistic licence thing.
I despise that word, "entitled", it's such a load of BS and is always deployed to shut down criticism that can't otherwise be refuted.
Almost everything about the way GW are pushing nu-WHQ is based on evoking the nostalgia people have for the original game, and even if it were not GW would have to be literally deaf, dumb, blind, and clinically stupid not to recognise that evoking a brand with a strong emotional component to it IS going to create expectations - it's their job, literally their job, to manage those expectations effectively. If they're incapable of effectively communicating to people what the product they're selling is, that's their problem and it's total horse manure to lay the blame for the fallout of that failure on the heads of potential customers.
If GW were to next "bring back" Mordheim using Mordheim's branding, talk about returning a "classic", repeatedly reference the original in their marketing etc, then you're damn right they would be responsible for creating an expectation that what people would be getting would be close enough to the original to justify such close comparison. If the resulting product wasn't set in Mordheim, had none of the factions of Mordheim, and completely dropped the complex post-game sequence for a much simplified system that barely met the definition of campaign progression, then calling people who react badly to the total disconnect between the product on-offer and the product "sold" to them by the marketing "entitled" is just petty trolling.
It's been done before, and examples were given here as well. Space Hulk was changed between editions. Rogue Trader, 40k 2nd Edition and 40k 3rd Edition are distinct, and different games to what came before. Especially 3rd. WHQ was a long time ago, and it having new/changed rules is a very reasonable thing. I actually missed out on the original, and didn't want to pay $400 on eBay so was looking forward to a straight re-release, but... I'll still take this, since it looks good on its own merits.
I've been following this thread without commenting, and aside from the obvious question (Why is a GW standalone Fantasy boardgame release thread bizarrely embedded into an AoS thread, despite being it's own thing - unlike DW:O, or Renegade, or even piddly little Last Patrol??) It seems that you're mostly here for a fight, since you appear fixated on having the same pointless circular argument about it not being a straight re-release of the 21-year old original. Are you the same poster who mentioned that you had major issues with the ridiculous pantomimes embedded in the legacy model rules when AoS came out due to ASD-specific discomfort? That's a serious question, asked deadpan with no emotion or judgement embedded in it.
Awesome! Should make a cool model. You can see one of the Fey down in the left corner two alongside the dyrads. Seems reasonable to suspect the Sylvaneth of becoming a fully blown faction too.
That Alarielle on the giant beetle would make one hell of a model if it looks anything like that art (which is undoubtedly one of the coolest AoS pieces in general)...
Really can't wait to see what they do with the Aelves going forward, they all became a bit homogenised towards the end of WFB but it looks like they could really start becoming their own thing again.
Yodhrin wrote: so if their new product fails to live up to that legacy that is a failure on their part not the customer's
That is a severely entitled viewpoint. The trade name itself is not a representation that the product will live up to anyone's nostalgia. GW wants to make a dungeon crawler board game leveraging their IP. "Warhammer Quest" is a perfectly appropriate title for that product, whatever a given customer would prefer or might expect. It's easy to tell if someone has a genuine interest in a product because they will look at it for what it is, rather than what it (apparently) "ought" to be.
I despise that word, "entitled", it's such a load of BS and is always deployed to shut down criticism that can't otherwise be refuted.
Almost everything about the way GW are pushing nu-WHQ is based on evoking the nostalgia people have for the original game, and even if it were not GW would have to be literally deaf, dumb, blind, and clinically stupid not to recognise that evoking a brand with a strong emotional component to it IS going to create expectations - it's their job, literally their job, to manage those expectations effectively. If they're incapable of effectively communicating to people what the product they're selling is, that's their problem and it's total horse manure to lay the blame for the fallout of that failure on the heads of potential customers.
If GW were to next "bring back" Mordheim using Mordheim's branding, talk about returning a "classic", repeatedly reference the original in their marketing etc, then you're damn right they would be responsible for creating an expectation that what people would be getting would be close enough to the original to justify such close comparison. If the resulting product wasn't set in Mordheim, had none of the factions of Mordheim, and completely dropped the complex post-game sequence for a much simplified system that barely met the definition of campaign progression, then calling people who react badly to the total disconnect between the product on-offer and the product "sold" to them by the marketing "entitled" is just petty trolling.
Yodhrin wrote: A company does not get to use the name of a cherished cult product
Wow, entitled much?
When making a new, AoS based, board game, GW had any amount of opportunity to choose a different style or name at the very minimum.
That would be the dumbest move they could do, because they already own the branding for Warhammer Quest. So, make a new Warhammer Quest. What they did was in fact the smartest thing they could do. Use their pre-existing brand that has name recognition.
In which case they must also bear the burden of dealing with the history of that brand and the reasons it has name recognition.
This isn't controversial, it's not some random thing people are inventing for this one release by GW "because they just be AoS haters y'all", creating and managing expectations is literally the whole fething point of marketing. GW can use the brand they own in any way they see fit, but if they choose to use one in a way that substantially departs from what made the brand valuable in the first place and they not only fail to adequately explain those changes but actively play on the original version, they don't get to piss and moan about all the meanie-weenie gamers who're not judging the new version solely on its own merits and it's not faaaaair
its their product. They do whatever they want with it. they can even cn a 30yrs old line if they see fit.
only things you can do is like it, dont like it, support it or move on.
To argue that a well-used label, brand, insignia, device or title makes the owner 100% responsible for meeting the expectations of anyone who has ever come into contact or experienced the subject, regardless of whether or not that is their intent, is asinine.
It's not asinine, because anybody who buys expensive sports cars such as Ferrari, Porsche etc etc know exactly what they're getting when they buy one, and legacy is a big part of that, and the manufacturers use this legacy as a selling point, as you would with such iconic brands.
GW, IMO, have shamefully traded on their historic WHQ brand to lure people into a false sense of security. By linking it with AOS and hedging their bets on a galactic scale, GW have wilfully misled people on this. As always with GW. one step forward, two steps back.
And another thing, aside from the fact they are a games company, why do GW keep churning out these stand alone games? I ask this because for the last 2 years, we've heard nothing but GW cost cutting, GW losing money etc etc
So here's a bunch of stand alone games, that will need new moulds and other design costs, and yet, nothing about how much money this will cost GW to set up. Very strange
To argue that a well-used label, brand, insignia, device or title makes the owner 100% responsible for meeting the expectations of anyone who has ever come into contact or experienced the subject, regardless of whether or not that is their intent, is asinine.
It's not asinine, because anybody who buys expensive sports cars such as Ferrari, Porsche etc etc know exactly what they're getting when they buy one, and legacy is a big part of that, and the manufacturers use this legacy as a selling point, as you would with such iconic brands.
GW, IMO, have shamefully traded on their historic WHQ brand to lure people into a false sense of security. By linking it with AOS and hedging their bets on a galactic scale, GW have wilfully misled people on this. As always with GW. one step forward, two steps back.
And another thing, aside from the fact they are a games company, why do GW keep churning out these stand alone games? I ask this because for the last 2 years, we've heard nothing but GW cost cutting, GW losing money etc etc
So here's a bunch of stand alone games, that will need new moulds and other design costs, and yet, nothing about how much money this will cost GW to set up. Very strange
When you buy a Ferrari, you don't expect it to be the exact same car as one from 20 years ago.
To argue that a well-used label, brand, insignia, device or title makes the owner 100% responsible for meeting the expectations of anyone who has ever come into contact or experienced the subject, regardless of whether or not that is their intent, is asinine.
It's not asinine, because anybody who buys expensive sports cars such as Ferrari, Porsche etc etc know exactly what they're getting when they buy one, and legacy is a big part of that, and the manufacturers use this legacy as a selling point, as you would with such iconic brands.
GW, IMO, have shamefully traded on their historic WHQ brand to lure people into a false sense of security. By linking it with AOS and hedging their bets on a galactic scale, GW have wilfully misled people on this. As always with GW. one step forward, two steps back.
And another thing, aside from the fact they are a games company, why do GW keep churning out these stand alone games? I ask this because for the last 2 years, we've heard nothing but GW cost cutting, GW losing money etc etc
So here's a bunch of stand alone games, that will need new moulds and other design costs, and yet, nothing about how much money this will cost GW to set up. Very strange
When you buy a Ferrari, you don't expect it to be the exact same car as one from 20 years ago.
True, but neither do you expect it to be horse drawn either!
The point is this: Silver tower has some wonderful minis, you'll get no argument from me, but when you have rival companies producing minis to a similar quality, then the only thing IMO that can sell a game, is the uniqueness or the quality of the rules.
Rightly or wrongly, WHQ has a certain set of rules which people enjoy, and which they associate with the brand. Now, if I'm a veteran who sees the WHQ brand on this game, I would assume that GW are being true to this ethos.
If they're not being true to the ethos, then people have every right to feel cheated IMO.
To use the sports car analogy again, if I buy a new Ferrari, yes, it will be different to previous ones, but I still expect high speeds, quality finish, the best materials etc etc. I don't expect to pop open the hood and see the engine being powered by hamsters on a wheel!
Warhams-77 wrote: Cant wait to use that (possible) beetle (model) as a mount for a Nurgle Lord
Had the same thought. If it was 50€ (with discount, whatever) I'd do just that. That won't happen though
I also have a sudden urge to buy a box of DE Mandrakes and a box of dryads and build some of those fey elves.
Having seen the official pics on the GW site now I'm disappointed that the Cultists and Gors are tw sets of pure clones, I was still hoping for something like the AOS starter where you had command bits (or even whole sculpts) on one of the non-duplicate sprues. Meh.
Those goblins are absolutely dreadful. Wrathmonger levels of bad -and those were just too blinged out, not plain bad sculpts. WIll have to inesctify them and have a small Nurgle mutant incursion in Tzeetch's tower, I bet he'd love that
PS: All those cool new monsters and GW still managed to screw up the coolest of them all, the Manticore. Sigh.
I was just about to post it as well.
looks rather interesting actually 
