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Post by: privateer4hire
Not falling for that again.
They'll just change it in a year or so with another compilation.
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Post by: Sqorgar
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it is obviously intended to be 2-3 instead of 3-4. It's an easy enough error to correct for. Use the brain the good lord gave you. They are producing 128 page rulebooks on a four month schedule. Typos happen. It's annoying, but that's all it is.
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Post by: Altruizine
Baxx wrote:The new pet Hacked cyber-mastiff got an incorrect weapon "Jaws" which differ from the existing "Jaws" for Giant Rat. The new Jaws is however identical to Sump Croc's Ferocious jaws.
The new pet Grapplehawk also has an incorrect weapon "Talons" which differ from the existing "Talons" for Khimerix & Phyrr cat.
I appreciate you logging all the problems in these books, but I think at this point you need to accept that the unique hired guns gear does not count in that category. It seems to be the case that they're sometimes equipped with alternate versions of other weapons and still share the name.
That's a valid design choice, imo. Hired guns can't buy extra gear, and other fighters can't buy the hired swords' version of gear, so there's no rules issue. And I actually find it refreshing that a "heroic" character's stub gun could be slightly higher quality than the basic Trading Post stub gun without it needing to receive a personalized name, like a weapon from Destiny 2.
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Post by: Chopstick
Probably wouldn't hurt if they just type in a few more words to make the weapon unique so Baxx can finally sleep well tonight.
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Post by: Coenus Scaldingus
To be fair, it's also just really impractical. Plenty of different weapons in the game already; having to remember or look up whether a character uses the first, second or third iteration of some particular knife really doesn't help anyone.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Hawky wrote:I now have a dilemma.
I like enforcers for their looks and lore, but I'm turned away by their fairly limited gameplay options and wargear.
On the other hand, I don't like Van Saar for their looks and lore, but I like their weapons and gameplay.
Any help, please?
Easy, buy the Enforcers and use Van Saar rules for them. Just swap out the weapons to ones more appropriate for Van Saar and you're good to go.
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Post by: archont
Baxx wrote:The Threadneedle rule has multiple errors. First off, it doesn't show the distribution of the D6 correctly (no 2, double 4). And they repeated that it's usable once, then discarded.
"Threadneedle worms can only be used once, after which they are removed from the fighter's card."
"The worms are then used and removed from the gang's stash."
I'm not sure if there's an actual difference between removed from the fighter's card and removed from the gang's stash. The authors themselves have guaranteed no clue.
Well, Stuff in your stash you can assign your fighters;
removing it from the fighters card is the same as saying "it may only be used once per battle"
after which you can reassign it from the stash to a fighter
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Post by: Yodhrin
You know, for a feature that was supposed to make things easier to manage, the whole "fighter card" thing sure does seem to throw up a lot of extra verbiage and confusion.
Especially when the old-fashioned "remove X from your roster" was so straightforward.
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Post by: insaniak
Sqorgar wrote:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it is obviously intended to be 2-3 instead of 3-4
Is it?
I mean, that's certainly likely, given the usual way GW approach tables like this, but it could also have been intended to be 1-2, with 5 and 6 on their own.
. It's annoying, but that's all it is.
Yes, that would appear to be the point that you're arguing against by making the same point...
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Post by: kendoka
Also Treadneedle worms are supposed to be the ultimate assassin tool (also in the fluff of the The Book of Judgement*).
So a gang gets hold of this biological tactical nuke, somehow manages to code it to the genetical fingerprint of all individual members of the opposite gang (atleast if rolling a 6) - and it does hardly any real damage...
I get ”Rule of cool” - but this is just strange.
*referring to ”The Book of Judgement” from FS/ GW - not to be mistaken for ”The Book of Judgement” from FFG.
The former is obviously about Enforcers and the second about Adeptus Arbites. Not at all confusing compared to the book ”Enforcer” being all about Arbites
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Post by: Sqorgar
insaniak wrote: Sqorgar wrote:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it is obviously intended to be 2-3 instead of 3-4
Is it?
I mean, that's certainly likely, given the usual way GW approach tables like this, but it could also have been intended to be 1-2, with 5 and 6 on their own.
Does it really matter? Necromunda is not a competitive game. You aren't playing a different stranger every week. You'll be playing the same group of people over multiple weeks in a campaign. If something doesn't work, fix it in the most obvious and simple way possible and move on. If you want the table to look like that, get your mates to agree and go for it. You've already put more thought into the table than the designers probably did.
. It's annoying, but that's all it is.
Yes, that would appear to be the point that you're arguing against by making the same point...
I'm advocating for a little self effort here. GW isn't running your campaign, you are. You are not a passive bystander. Nothing happens unless you make it happen. Take control of that power to make a more enjoyable game experience.
I've been reading people complaining about the scenarios in a recently delivered kickstarter game, and they think the game is literally unplayable because of all the errors - but look at what they are complaining about and 95% of the time, it is either a typo where the answer is obvious, or it is something where the outcome is not measurably changed either way. The other 5% of the time, it's something which can go one of two ways - pick the one you like better, or heck, play it both ways and see the difference for yourself. But you end up with people selling off their games or waiting for version 1.5 before touching the game because they treat game rules as sacred - and when these sacred texts conflict or are lacking, they have no choice but to wait for further communication from the game gods before moving forward. They are ruining their own enjoyment and experience just because they become so obsessed over minutiae that they can't see anything else.
It's like some sort of game rule anxiety. People aren't responding to the minor annoyance of an obvious typo. They are responding to the anxiety that comes from an official rules conflict, and are seemingly unable to respond to that conflict in any constructive way without official say so. It's the weirdest thing.
Edit: I just realized that this was the root cause behind the initial issues people had with the first edition of Age of Sigmar.
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Post by: Baxx
Sqorgar wrote:Does it really matter? Necromunda is not a competitive game. You aren't playing a different stranger every week. You'll be playing the same group of people over multiple weeks in a campaign. If something doesn't work, fix it in the most obvious and simple way possible and move on. If you want the table to look like that, get your mates to agree and go for it. You've already put more thought into the table than the designers probably did.
I agree it doesn't matter, but when listing up all the errors in this book (on top of all the errors in previous books), it is cases like this on every other page. I'd rather pay for rules that didn't need so much duct tape. Want to try Magnacles? Good luck trying to figure RAW from RAI. Yes, any unclear rule should be a matter of a simple roll-off if players can't agree. But I want some consistency, permanent solutions. Not a random rules set each game, where you have to roll off to decide which of 3 different Scouring (Wyrd Power) rules to use. The state of the game today, we don't know what stuff do. And we got silly things like Gunk ammo dealing various amount of ammo, depending on which gun it was fired from. Or more silly, Wyrd Powers and weapons that differ depending on which fighter uses it! There is a long list of errors in this book, nicely summed up here: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/collected-errors-typos-in-the-book-of-judgement.9166/page-2#post-204423 One silly example: On page 47, you can choose to pay 3 XP or 4 XP to increase WIllpower. But no way to increase Leadership. They couldn't even copy-paste the damn table! Automatically Appended Next Post: Coenus Scaldingus wrote:To be fair, it's also just really impractical. Plenty of different weapons in the game already; having to remember or look up whether a character uses the first, second or third iteration of some particular knife really doesn't help anyone.
Exactly! It used to be, "I'm hitting you with a boltgun", great, now I know it has Strength 4 and 2 Damage. But not, it's like, nevermind what weapon it is, which fighter is attacking? Automatically Appended Next Post: Sqorgar wrote:
I'm advocating for a little self effort here. GW isn't running your campaign, you are. You are not a passive bystander. Nothing happens unless you make it happen. Take control of that power to make a more enjoyable game experience.
It's like some sort of game rule anxiety. People aren't responding to the minor annoyance of an obvious typo. They are responding to the anxiety that comes from an official rules conflict, and are seemingly unable to respond to that conflict in any constructive way without official say so. It's the weirdest thing.
Edit: I just realized that this was the root cause behind the initial issues people had with the first edition of Age of Sigmar.
Look at the publishing history for N17/18:
N17 Rulebook (toxic garbage)
GW1 (garbage)
GW2 (garbage)
GW3 (garbage)
GW4 (garbage)
Chaos v1 (garbage)
Chaos v2 (garbage)
Chaos v3 (future garabage?)
Genestealer cult v1 (garbage)
Genestealer cult v2 (future garbage?)
Bounty Hunters v1 (garbage)
N18 compilation books (rules & gangs)
Perils (future garbage?)
Enforcers (future garbage?)
This is a very special game to me, I have fond memories of it. I hate how careless GW is when making rules for such an old classic gem of a game. I want proper quality, not some loosely organized ideas reprinted on paper in book after book.
And I'm trying desperately to fix it, compiling my own documents for all cards, all rules and all house rules / campaign fixes. It takes a ton of work to fix this game properly!
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Post by: frozenwastes
The rules are/were a mess. It's obvious that it's a small team working on this and many things that would be caught if someone who has fresh eyes tried to actually use the text in a game are simply not being caught. If all their playtesting always involved people who knew how it's is supposed to work, it's very easy for them to miss the fact that that's not exactly what the text says.
It's like the entire first underhive, gang war and white dwarf articles were a public playtest they made people pay quite a large amount of money to participate in.
There's already some of the exact same issues in the newest books. Can enforcers take hand cuffs? Doesn't look like it. Worst police ever.
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Post by: Lord Damocles
Wow.
That is a LOT of rules for less than two years.
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Post by: Baxx
5 garbage books, hundreds of inconsistent rules, constantly changing or sneakily updated: weapon profiles, costs, stats, skills, wyrd powers ++. Most frustrating right now is they seem to be on a second wave of (future) garbage with the 2 latest book. Total lack of quality control. And why should they bother? Both Perils and Judgement may very well be invalid within 6 months anyway.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Are you actually doing anything useful with all these issues you spot, like say reporting them to the publisher for correction, or even opening a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss them? Or is clogging up the news thread with not-news how you get your hobby fix now?
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Post by: frozenwastes
I've noticed that Necromunda players are the most accepting of rulebook piracy of any miniature gamers ever. I think they're just tired of paying for unfinished books that will be swiftly invalidated. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr_Rose wrote:Are you actually doing anything useful with all these issues you spot, like say reporting them to the publisher for correction, or even opening a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss them? Or is clogging up the news thread with not-news how you get your hobby fix now? Yaktribe has taken to working these rules out for themselves. If I recall correctly they assembled a huge list of issues and questions and sent it to the appropriate faq related email address and nothing ever came of it. Isn't it news though, that the new enforcers with the new book of judgement come out and they made it so the police can't get hand cuffs even though the models clearly have them? Seems newsworthy for anyone thinking about getting into the game because of the new cool models to know the rules support is awful and you will have to house rule basic things like equipping the models with what they have on them. This is really no different than when the WD article for Genestealer Cults came out and they had no way of of getting the third arm that many of them had even though it was an entry in the options. The news is that the poor quality rules continues.
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Post by: Baxx
Mr_Rose wrote:Are you actually doing anything useful with all these issues you spot, like say reporting them to the publisher for correction, or even opening a thread in the appropriate forum to discuss them? Or is clogging up the news thread with not-news how you get your hobby fix now?
Sure I'm doing something useful! I mentioned this in the news thread because Book of Judgement is still one of the latest releases. There's a lot of discussion about the new models, but not much talk about the new rules. I tried commenting on errors last year to GW, but they don't care, give mindless replies. I've seen others share their experience when asking about rules and errors, the replies are usually worthless, makes little sense or even increase the confusion.
Removed
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Post by: Sqorgar
Baxx wrote:
Look at the publishing history for N17/18:
N17 Rulebook (toxic garbage)
GW1 (garbage)
GW2 (garbage)
GW3 (garbage)
GW4 (garbage)
Chaos v1 (garbage)
Chaos v2 (garbage)
Chaos v3 (future garabage?)
Genestealer cult v1 (garbage)
Genestealer cult v2 (future garbage?)
Bounty Hunters v1 (garbage)
N18 compilation books (rules & gangs)
Perils (future garbage?)
Enforcers (future garbage?)
I very much think your classifications of "toxic garbage", "garbage", and "future garbage" are a histrionic overreaction. These books and PDFs are good 6s or 7s out of 10. Some better, some worse. They have issues, but they have a lot of good stuff in them too. Lot of good stuff. In fact, the Necromunda books are my favorite publications that GW puts out, just for the sheer variety of content they introduce. Necromunda is a game with very few models, but a whole crap load of things to do with those models. It's almost like the limitations they have for making the models have made their rules more interesting (and plentiful) to compensate, and I find that to be an interesting and inspiring change from the majority of miniature games out there. Every book is a collection of haphazard, half developed ideas - but so, so brimming with creativity and passion that I just don't see from most other, more corporate-feeling games. Necromunda is punk (in more ways than one) and that's awesome.
No, I don't think these books are perfect, but when your scale is "okay" and "garbage", with nothing in between, it doesn't allow for nuance or discussion. A 128-page rulebook with a page's worth of errata is hardly garbage. It's flawed, but not worthless.
frozenwastes wrote:I've noticed that Necromunda players are the most accepting of rulebook piracy of any miniature gamers ever. I think they're just tired of paying for unfinished books that will be swiftly invalidated.
I've noticed this too. In fact, when Underhive and the first Gang War were first released, I saw people linking to compiled rules documents on reddit within the first few days, updated with rules transcribed directly from the newly released books. Truly some gifted individuals, getting tired of paying for unfinished books when my preorder hadn't even shipped yet...
When Necromunda was a dead game, it made sense to openly share the game rules. But Necromunda isn't a dead game anymore, and I don't find "garbage rules" to be a particularly compelling moral argument for piracy.
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Post by: frozenwastes
The direct analogue of physical to digital property is not obvious when you don't grow up with only physical property. When you constantly deal with digital property and are endlessly encouraged to share everything on social media, the same moral intuitions will not be present. In fact, the opposite ones will be formed. When you do not have the moral intuitions to tell you not to do something, you simply don't require a moral justification to do it.
As for the fan compilation, it was a direct result of the issues with the rulebook. When you can tell the errata is going to be voluminous, an editable electronic version is essential. Furthermore, GW stupidly launched the game with no electronic version of the rules available. Especially if the community is going to have to handle things themselves. GW took forever to respond to any questions about the rules after their initial launch. When they finally said an FAQ would come soon, people on Yaktribe compiled a list of questions and then the FAQ came out and introduced more questions than it answered. It was a mess.
I'm more included to base my games on FFG's Dark Heresy RPGs, but some local people are interested in checking out N17 and I'm definitely thankful that the fan compilation/edit and YAQ exist.
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Post by: Yodhrin
You know, it'd be real nice if people didn't discuss piracy here - it's dead easy to make your argument when anyone who might be inclined to make a counterpoint is prevented from doing so by the forum rules.
Do it or don't, but spare us the "kids these days fnar" moral analysis, eh?
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Post by: frozenwastes
If you think I was making a "kid's these days" analysis, might I invite you to think about the implications of the anti-piracy intuitions not being universal and based on having to extrapolate physical intuitions to a digital world where the basic characteristics are simply not analogous. It's the boomer intuitions that are off base here, not the zoomer ones. I removed the "generational" thing from my last post to help it be more clear. Even if the pre-internet intuitions are what trip people up on the piracy issue and those are largely generational.
But sure. I'll drop the topic.
It is sad though how poorly the editing is on Necromunda publications. The YAQ should not have to exist. All of those questions should already be resolved by either the text itself or the designers in a FAQ.
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Post by: Sqorgar
Saw this article over at /r/Games and thought of this thread:
One danger is that it’s very difficult to tell which members of The Community are open to discussion, and which are simply Engaged Detractors who are making bad faith arguments in the interest of contributing to the overall scale of the outrage.
The Storytellers emerge with their own posts. These people are most interested in situating the most recent Bad Change within a longer framework of Bad Changes that The Devs have done over the years. “This is just one mistake among many, and the pattern is clear,” they warn. The other members of The Community here begin reposting arguments which were upvoted in earlier threads — the goal here is to solidify permanent reputational loss for The Devs as punishment for failing to revert or otherwise fix the Bad Change.
Heck, even I show up:
Advocates (members of The Community who are generally willing to give The Devs the benefit of the doubt) will tend to shout down Engaged Detractors at this point, and Engaged Detractors will accuse Advocates of being shills. As in all online arguments, no one ever actually wins. Here the 48 Hours of Gamer Hell generally concludes.
It's an interesting article, worth reading. I disagree with its conclusion though.
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Post by: frozenwastes
I'm someone who was hyped at launch, disappointed once I got to grips with the rules and then have only returned to having interest because the Enforcer models are so damn awesome. I am sadly again disappointed with the editing of the published rules. If you're referring to Baxx, he's someone who took the time to make a house ruled compilation of the rules so he can play with a version of the game he likes. That's simply not the action of a so called "engaged detractor." The necromunda community kept the game alive for years and years, asking nothing in return for their community edition. If people find the editing in an official publication to be worse than what the fans make for themselves, that isn't them participating in some campaign to "solidify permanent reputation loss for the Devs as punishment." Sometimes publications just have issues and people point them out. Also, one of the central ideas of that article is that there's some disliked "Bad Change" but that's not the case with Necromunda. The community edition is alive and well. GW did not sick their lawyers on forums or facebook groups dedicated to the original game. There is both the current Necromunda and fan versions living happily side by side. There is no "bad change" like a change in a video game where you can't just keep playing the old version because of updates or online servers requiring the latest version be used.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
frozenwastes wrote:If I recall correctly they assembled a huge list of issues and questions and sent it to the appropriate faq related email address and nothing ever came of it.
I could E-mail it to Andy directly. I'm sure he'd scream at me for doing so, but it couldn't hurt.
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Post by: frozenwastes
H.B.M.C. wrote: frozenwastes wrote:If I recall correctly they assembled a huge list of issues and questions and sent it to the appropriate faq related email address and nothing ever came of it.
I could E-mail it to Andy directly. I'm sure he'd scream at me for doing so, but it couldn't hurt. So I went digging for the old thread and found that things morphed with the publication of the new books. Tons of those issues were resolved in the 2018 rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive. So here's a work in progress document of the N18 YAQ. It incorporates all the published official FAQ and does it's best to solve the further issues. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mmafTQRNFY16rPPe1AqyDDn4IDXPELI5ba869QE5InI I want to add that I was also wrong saying that nothing ever came of it. Nothing ever came of it before I stopped paying attention. Underhive + gang war 1-4 issues could easily have been resolved with the publication of the 2018 rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive. So they did deal with the issues at least to some degree. I think I stopped paying attending around the release of Gang War 3, so two publications later is only about half a year or so. So it's quite possible the emailed list got through and the questions that were deemed important got answered and the rest got addressed with the new rulebook. Actually between the two GW books, the community compilations and the YAQ, it looks like Necromunda might be a really solid game as it currently stands. The issues with editing notwithstanding. Although looking through the YAQ document I'm surprised by the number of things in Underhive that got cut from the 2018 rulebook. Like being crushed in a door, what a standard move means, fighting over barricades and so on. I actually have no idea if these will come up in a game or not but it is strange that entire rules like fighting over barricades were cut from the new rulebook. Or perhaps the intent is now that you can't engage someone behind a barricade because you can't get base to base?
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Post by: BrookM
Kindly keep this thread for news and rumours, as I've said before in the past, take all discussion of custom house rules and how many errors one can find to a thread of its own please.
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Post by: Graphite
H.B.M.C. wrote: frozenwastes wrote:If I recall correctly they assembled a huge list of issues and questions and sent it to the appropriate faq related email address and nothing ever came of it.
I could E-mail it to Andy directly. I'm sure he'd scream at me for doing so, but it couldn't hurt.
Do it! Do it! Do it!
Even to get an answer of "We're working on the MEGAFAQ, ok? It'll be done when it's done!"
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah, so, it turns out the eyes of GW are everywhere, as Andy E-mailed me before I could E-mail him.
If we want to give constructive good-faith feedback right to the horses mouth (so to speak), then I can pass it on.
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Post by: Yodhrin
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, so, it turns out the eyes of GW are everywhere, as Andy E-mailed me before I could E-mail him.
If we want to give constructive good-faith feedback right to the horses mouth (so to speak), then I can pass it on.
I think the main thing would be to let us know what's meant to be an update to an existing rule or stat line, what's meant to be an alternative version of an existing rule or stat line, and what's just typos.
And ideally, in future, for them to A; actually point out in the book itself when they've decided to change something with a little "Editor's Note" popout box or something, B; for them to indicate when something is meant to be an alternative by giving it a distinct name(even something as basic as "Guy Randomname's Stub Gun"), and C; just generally to please allow a little more time in their schedule for thorough proofreading and maybe an extra round of editing.
Now that they have the "core" game completed and in the main two books and all the House gangs I'd be happy buying a couple of these expansion books a year(and have done) so long as they don't end up being pointless due to needing such extensive FAQ'ing - people don't mind paying premium prices so long as they're actually getting premium product.
Oh, and one other thing: ancillary products like card packs. If they're going to insist on doing teeny-weeny runs of sometimes very useful things that aren't in the books and which sell out pretty much immediately when they go up for preorder, it'd be good if they would either publicly commit to doing a reprint in future(even if it's not right now, just some firm indication that folk who miss out don't need to indulge the scalperscum is enough), or else do what they did with the Titanicus terminals and put them up on Warhammer Community as a print-ready PDF. We want to buy this stuff, but if they can't manage to produce enough to satisfy demand and they're not willing to commit to doing so in future, then they could at least give us a DIY version(and it's not like they're losing out on anything - people are already hoisting the Jolly Roger to get copies when the stock runs out)..
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Post by: HudsonD
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, so, it turns out the eyes of GW are everywhere, as Andy E-mailed me before I could E-mail him.
If we want to give constructive good-faith feedback right to the horses mouth (so to speak), then I can pass it on.
Well, the bulk of most comments appear to fall in two boxes :
- I'd like to send you (more) money, but I can't, because product X gets OOP way too fast.
- I'd like to play your game (more), but I can't, because product is OOP and rules mistakes/typoes/inconsistencies/poor writing.
The former is not in the players' hands, the latter would require more frequent erratas, and some channel players can use to ask rule questions and clarifications.
Edit : I'll say it, overall, Newcromunda is a nice, fun game, if a bit of a rough diamond at this point. It's good, but could be better with a little more polish.
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Post by: zedmeister
To echo the above points - please do a new print run. I want to give Specialist Games monies but they're not available! A re-run of dice (packs go regularly for £30-£40 on ebay), card packs, hell even a new or refresh of the Gang Leaders pack. Same for Blood Bowl and Titanicus... Yodhrin wrote:Oh, and one other thing: ancillary products like card packs. If they're going to insist on doing teeny-weeny runs of sometimes very useful things that aren't in the books and which sell out pretty much immediately when they go up for preorder, it'd be good if they would either publicly commit to doing a reprint in future(even if it's not right now, just some firm indication that folk who miss out don't need to indulge the scalperscum is enough), or else do what they did with the Titanicus terminals and put them up on Warhammer Community as a print-ready PDF. We want to buy this stuff, but if they can't manage to produce enough to satisfy demand and they're not willing to commit to doing so in future, then they could at least give us a DIY version(and it's not like they're losing out on anything - people are already hoisting the Jolly Roger to get copies when the stock runs out).. Agreed. An alternative is some sort of table that you can roll or select with in a similar manner to the Titanicus Tactics Cards. So for picking a random card - you roll on one of a number of generic tables or instead on the house table. For a specific chosen card, you pick and note down secretly. That way, at least everyone gets a crack at having the tactics available to them. Also ensures that they're available long term. They can still sell the physical cards at the very least (I know I'll buy them. Just missing the Orlock pack, grumble grumble...) Automatically Appended Next Post: An additional point I'd like to add is praise for sheer amount of ideas and content they're bundling in. Yes, typos and mismatched entries are an irritant but not the end of the world. Ignore hyperbolic comments going on about Toxic Garbage. The only toxic garbage in this game is what the gangers occasionally end up wading through. Please keep lobbing in more, Rogue Trader style. With the amount of books and rules we've got, my ongoing campaign has just started wading through the Perils book let alone the book of judgment. Plenty to keep us going for another year or two.
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Post by: Baxx
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, so, it turns out the eyes of GW are everywhere, as Andy E-mailed me before I could E-mail him. If we want to give constructive good-faith feedback right to the horses mouth (so to speak), then I can pass it on.
I'll post some questions from a list of errors at yaktribe ( https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/collected-errors-typos-in-the-book-of-judgement.9166/). I skipped some of the errors regarding incorrect referencing pages, swapped fluff texts and similar errors. These questions apply to the Book of Judgement. Page 15 Why does Imperial Imposters allow the gang to avoid being Outlawed when this Alliance is not available to Law Abiding gangs? Keep in mind switching alignments has very low chance of keeping the Alliance, between 83.3% to 100% chance of breaking the Alliance. If an Outlaw gang starts an Alliance with the Imperial Imposters, then switch alignments, they have almost no chance to keep their Alliance and enjoy the benefits of the protection against being Outlawed. Page 20 What is the correct profile and/or equipment for Void-born Scum? They are clearly incorrect. Page 25 What is the correct rules for Scouring (Psychich Power)? It is different from the one listed in the Chaos Cults and Perils of the Underhive book, it lacks the Continuous Effect rule and is lower strength. Page 33 Is it correct that Magnacles are not available to Enforcers? Page 47 Why is Willpower is listed twice on the advancement chart? Why isn't Leadership listed? Page 66 The Intrigue Stand Alone must be played on an enemy fighter. Is this correct, or should the effect and reward apply to a friendly fighter? Page 86 Both The Resurrection Game and Peddlers of Forbidden Lore lack the stipulation that you must control both linked rackets in order to gain their second enhanced boons. Is this correct? Page 87 Why is Estus Jet's throwing knives missing the Silent trait? Page 87 Why does Estus Jet's stiletto knife have +1 to hit modifier? This does not match Gangs of the Underhive. Page 91 Why does Cor Coran armed with a forged Guilder seal when he has no way of visiting the Trading Post? Suggested solution: Cor Coran may make a Trade action as if he is a champion after a battle in which he took part. Page 92 Why does Vunder Gorvos' Stub gun have the (outdated) Pistol trait instead of the (currently used) Sidearm trait? Page 92 Why does Vunder Gorvos' wargear contains "2x Gold plated and Master-crafted Stub guns'' but his card shows 1x Stub gun, 1x Shotgun and 1x Sword? As a Hive Scum he is allowed to have 3 weapons, not 4. Page 98 Why are Gaen Gorvos' throwing knives missing the Silent trait? Page 99 Why are Jonny Razor's throwing knives missing the Silent trait? Page 100 Why does Stun grenades for the Subjugation pattern grenade launcher have the Grenade trait? Why does it not have Blast (X)? Page 101 Should the heavy concussion ram have the Blast trait (compared to the concussion carbine)? Page 108 Why do Desire's Needle and Whisperbane knives have hit modifier under the Short range modifier instead of Long range? Page 111 Why does Gas shells for various weapons have strength and damage characteristic? The rules for Gas say they do not pin or roll to wound. Page 117 Why is the Gyrinx Cat's special rule "Small Target" different from the same rule possessed by the Necromunda Giant Rat from page 93 of the Book of Peril?. It lacks the effect which makes the model immune to stray shots. Page 121 Why does Threadneedle Worms description says it is removed from both a fighter's card and the gang's stash when used? It cannot exist in both those places. Additionally he table has gaps and overlapping ranged, it reads: 1 - The Worms Turn 3-4 - A Few Live Worms 4-5 - A Few More Live Worms 6 - A Can Full of Worms Automatically Appended Next Post: zedmeister wrote: Yes, typos and mismatched entries are an irritant but not the end of the world (ignore hyperbolic comments going on about Toxic Garbage. The only toxic garbage in this game is what the gangers occasionally end up wading through).
I didn't call the first rulebook toxic garbage because it was full of typos and contradictions. It was pale demo version of what Necromunda is (only 2 gangs, no campaign/xp, almost no skills, traits, weapons or equipment). Many components of the game was alternative, not compatible with any of the books that came later. Stuff like scenarios, fighter types, gang composition, weapons, traits, skills. It is particularly toxic garbage because it includes a version of the game that was discarded on day 1 by the release of the Gang War system (which in turn was completely replaced by the compiled rulebooks one year later). If I buy a game that says "Necromunda", I have certain expectations, and seeing a system dead at launch is not deterring me from calling it toxic garbage.
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Post by: Sqorgar
Baxx wrote:
I didn't call the first rulebook toxic garbage because it was full of typos. It was pale demo version of what Necromunda is (onnly 2 gangs, no campaign/xp, almost no skills, traits, weapons or equipment). Many components of the game was alternative, not compatible with any of the books that came later. Stuff like scenarios, fighter types, gang composition, weapons, traits, skills.
Underhive was designed to be a largely self contained product. That's why it is called "Necromunda: Underhive" and not "Necromunda". They formed the design of the game around the components that were available in the box. This wasn't a terrible idea, given how long it would eventually take Necromunda to get all that missing stuff, and if it wasn't successful, could still be played even if they didn't release the rest of the line. Specialist Games didn't have to resources to support Necromunda fully at that time (or even now, apparently).
It probably isn't obvious, given how common narrative miniature games are these days, but when N17 was released, it was pretty darn uncommon. I think Frostgrave was it for noteworthy games people actually played. Grognards can look back and brag about their Mordheim gangs, but you have to understand that it had been decades since Necromunda or Mordheim were a thing, and narrative, campaign games had more or less disappeared in favor of competitive, tournament-focused games. Relaunching Necromunda to the current audience (and not just grognards) basically required selling the concept of a campaign game to people who only heard tales of them. Necromunda was a conservative launch, but it had to be. These days, Kill Team and Warcry think nothing of launching with campaigns built in, and I think it is largely thanks to the groundwork that Necromunda (and Frostgrave) laid.
It is particularly toxic garbage because it includes a version of the game that was discarded on day 1 by the release of the Gang War system (which in turn was completely replaced by the compiled rulebooks one year later).
Gang War took the self-contained Underhive and added a bunch of stuff that wasn't in the box: Sector Mechanicus rules and scenarios, rules for units/weapons/equipment that didn't have models, a lot more skills, and a simple but effective campaign that gives you a way to upgrade your gangs (again, something you can do in Underhive at all). It did not replace the Underhive rulebook, it added to it. It fleshed it out. It was basically the "Advanced Rules" section of the rulebook.
I don't begrudge the release of Gang War 1, but I think the other Gang War books were a misstep. You can definitely see the Gang War books getting bigger and more interesting, with less reprinting of tables and gear from previous issues, culminating in the Books of Peril/Judgement, which are less likely to be outright replaced going forward.
If I buy a game that says "Necromunda", I have certain expectations...
I can see that.
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Post by: zedmeister
Baxx wrote: I didn't call the first rulebook toxic garbage because it was full of typos and contradictions. It was pale demo version of what Necromunda is (only 2 gangs, no campaign/xp, almost no skills, traits, weapons or equipment). Many components of the game was alternative, not compatible with any of the books that came later. Stuff like scenarios, fighter types, gang composition, weapons, traits, skills. It is particularly toxic garbage because it includes a version of the game that was discarded on day 1 by the release of the Gang War system (which in turn was completely replaced by the compiled rulebooks one year later). If I buy a game that says "Necromunda", I have certain expectations, and seeing a system dead at launch is not deterring me from calling it toxic garbage. Make up your mind. It is or it isn't. Shoddy, hyperbolic comments like this doesn't help your case. As for the rest, you're talking nonsense. The set formed the basis for the game and included the core rules for the next year until the hardback was released. And as for your comments on components no longer in use, what are you on? Bar the rulebook, the rest of the box set is still valuable and useful. From the boards, to the models, to the counters, terrain, etc. Nothing bar the rulebook has been replaced. Your expectations on getting a full complete game and being disappointed with the product received does not automatically mean the game is, as you put it, "toxic garbage". Finally, the "dead at launch" comment is beyond ridiculous and patently untrue. If it were true, why are we still here watching releases come out? Not to mention tactics cards and other accessories selling out within a week of release. You have some legitimate complaints in highlighting odd rules, typos and omissions, etc. But the fact your expectations at launch and ongoing are not getting met is, quite frankly, your problem and aren't a decent ground for complaint.
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Post by: Baxx
Make up my mind about what? The starter set was a pale demo with no content, most of it describing an alternative game, which no further expansions could build upon. There are no pets for the initial Goliath & Escher gangs! There are no Juves, Brutes, hangers-on, alliances, trading post, black market, campaigns, new scenarios or anything else either. No other gangs can play against them. They are alone, without any additional content. It's a dead system, and it died on day 1. Everything released within the 1st year (with a few exceptions like the cult pdfs) is either abandoned or have been replaced by the compilation books. That includes the first 5 books. We are watching releases come out for a game that is different in all aspects from the initial rulebook system. Nothing that has been released is compatible with that system. There are many reasons why I call it toxic garbage, not just one example you point out like expecations. The starter box game was dead at launch, that's a fact. Nobody is playing that system, nobody is discussing it. It's completely dead. Perhaps a few people made some demo games the first weeks or months, but anyone who could see where the development was going discarded it. You may not agree with me, but I have scanned all changes in this game after every release. I've updated my own rules compilation every time, I noticed almost all differences, small and major. I know in great detail how the rules have evolved since November 2017. I've discussed every iteration of the rules in great deteail at yaktribe. Never saw reactions similar to yours there. You should join our discussions over at yaktribe, give some fresh perspectives! Automatically Appended Next Post: Sqorgar wrote: Underhive was designed to be a largely self contained product. [...]
Yes I can agree with the way you describe it, but I still think it was a terrible idea the way most of these things were handled. Luckily we're passed all that now, but it is sad to see several of the same problems we suffered last year due to bad quality now is returning in the latest books.
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Post by: zedmeister
Baxx wrote:Make up my mind about what?
The starter set was a pale demo with no content, most of it describing an alternative game, which no further expansions could build upon. There are no pets for the initial Goliath & Escher gangs! There are no Juves, Brutes, hangers-on, alliances, trading post, black market, campaigns, new scenarios or anything else either. No other gangs can play against them. They are alone, without any additional content. It's a dead system, and it died on day 1.
Everything released within the 1st year (with a few exceptions like the cult pdfs) have been replaced by the compilation books. That includes the first 5 books.
We are watching releases come out for a game that is different in all aspects from the initial rulebook system. Nothing that has been released is compatible with that system.
There are many reasons why I call it toxic garbage, not just one example you point out like expecations.
The starter box game was dead at launch, that's a fact. Nobody is playing that system, nobody is discussing it. It's completely dead. Perhaps a few people made some demo games the first weeks or months, but anyone who could see where the development was going discarded it.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I have used the original set extensively and still do. I used the original rulebook right up until the release of the newer hardback. I saw each gang war as an expansion to the rulebook not a replacement. Was it a pain in the arse to flip through each book to find rules? Certainly. However, toxic garbage it was not. Nor was it dead on arrival. The core mechanics haven't changed that much since launch. New things have been added and old things removed.
You may not agree with me, but I have scanned all changes in this game after every release. I've updated my own rules compilation every time, I noticed almost all differences, small and major. I know in great detail how the rules have evolved since November 2017. I've discussed every iteration of the rules in great deteail at yaktribe. Never saw reactions similar to yours there. You should join our discussions over at yaktribe, give some fresh perspectives!
I'll give it a miss, thanks. I'd rather not get lectured on why a game I have thoroughly enjoyed since launch is toxic garbage.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Let them know the Gang War supplements and N17 core book replacement within about a year of release to be replaced by a $110 two-book compilation was viewed by some as paying to beta test and has made some folks shy about buying new stuff.
That once upon a time, one of Necromunda's big draws was being able to buy, build and paint a small group of models and play the game affordably. It didn't scare people quite so much for investment of time and money.
If I want to play Enforcers as a newbie I have to spend $110 for the two hardcovers, $42 for the models, $47 for book o' judgement. I also need to buy dice so that's another $15. So $214 to get going.
Even if my group has the core books--and they're good/I'm good with sharing them---- I'm at $104 to get 10 guys on the table. It's the most extreme example but it is a deterrent to generating casual player (I mean about commitment not play style) commitment.
That free PDF gang lists actually might be helping them sell unit boxes like Chaos cultists and GSC neophytes. Doing more stuff for folks who don't want/can't to go 'all in' might be worth continuing
That generic always available Necromunda dice might be a good thing to stock. Our group doesn't even bother with the cards any more since they're OOP for most of our players and nobody wants to pay ebay prices.
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Post by: Baxx
zedmeister wrote: Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I have used the original set extensively and still do. I used the original rulebook right up until the release of the newer hardback. I saw each gang war as an expansion to the rulebook not a replacement. Was it a pain in the arse to flip through each book to find rules? Certainly. However, toxic garbage it was not. Nor was it dead on arrival. The core mechanics haven't changed that much since launch. New things have been added and old things removed. I'll give it a miss, thanks. I'd rather not get lectured on why a game I have thoroughly enjoyed since launch is toxic garbage.
When you played, did you include juves?
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Post by: zedmeister
Probably not as they didn't (and still don't) have models. Though, I relented probably around Gang War 2 as they're useful fodder.
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Post by: Sqorgar
privateer4hire wrote:
That once upon a time, one of Necromunda's big draws was being able to buy, build and paint a small group of models and play the game affordably. It didn't scare people quite so much for investment of time and money.
You are aware that we are talking about Games Workshop here, right?
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Post by: Baxx
zedmeister wrote:
Probably not as they didn't (and still don't) have models. Though, I relented probably around Gang War 2 as they're useful fodder.
Okay. We're talking about completely different things. I was talking about a version of the game where there is no such thing as "Juve". Sorry if I was unable to clearly describe this earlier.
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Post by: zedmeister
Baxx wrote: zedmeister wrote:
Probably not as they didn't (and still don't) have models. Though, I relented probably around Gang War 2 as they're useful fodder.
Okay. We're talking about completely different things. I was talking about a version of the game where there is no such thing as "Juve". Sorry if I was unable to clearly describe this earlier.
Not sure of your reasoning? Are you annoyed Juves didn’t appear in the base game and were added as a rules expansion?
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Post by: Baxx
How did you get that impression? Where did I even hint this annoyed me? Let's just say my reasoning at this point is not worth repeating and certainly not newsworthy. If you're actually interested in my reasoning, I'm happy to invite you to yaktribe, it is the best quality discussion forum for Necromunda, and you should be pretty safe from being lectured there. There is a "Sump" thread there more than 100 pages of complaints about N17/N18, so if you don't understand why people (including me) are/were upset, that should give you a pretty clear picture.
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Post by: zedmeister
Baxx wrote:How did you get that impression? Where did I even hint this annoyed me? Let's just say my reasoning at this point is not worth repeating and certainly not newsworthy. If you're actually interested in my reasoning, I'm happy to invite you to yaktribe, it is the best quality discussion forum for Necromunda, and you should be pretty safe from being lectured there. There is a "Sump" thread there more than 100 pages of complaints about N17/N18, so if you don't understand why people (including me) are/were upset, that should give you a pretty clear picture.
Using the phrase toxic garbage makes you come across as more than a little annoyed. You’ve given no other reasoning beyond the fact that you come across as annoyed because the original base game didn’t include every rule at the get go and instead GW went with the codex style expansions. As for the invite, no thanks. I don’t want to be lectured.
I’ll leave it there and bow out as we’ll keep going backwards and forwards disagreeing with each other until a mod tells us off, but I think Sqorgar said it best:
Sqorgar wrote:If I buy a game that says "Necromunda", I have certain expectations...
I can see that.
Indeed...
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Post by: Chopstick
Some mismanagement and development hell must've been going on at SG, leading to "Underhive" and Normal necromunda having 2 completely different cost for gang and items, and missing weapons.
They need to retire that starter box ASAP.
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Post by: Grot 6
If you know what your doing, you won't have a problem playing a straight up gang fight game.
There are a lot of issues, but nothing that we old Necromunda players aren't used to. Hell, this has been part and parcel of the game since Necromunda 1.
This was a great evolution, if there would have been more of keeping what was great about the first game and improving what was shoddy while adding in the new stuff line Enforcers, and Pets and stuff.
Examples of add-ons I've done- Have no issues throwing in a handful of ghouls and reducing sight by 6 inches on a board, have none either about reducing it to 4 inches while a giant lizard walks around in the slop, and attacking what it wants to on the ground floor. There's a Vampire still in the hive that I have a good run trying o hunt down as well.... Just who is the vampire? Zombie Horde, Grot infestation, taking over a wild territory and just fighting a bunch of chaos cultists, etc.etc… You use the books as a guide, you are not married to anything in them, Just everyone has to agree what works or not.
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Post by: streetsamurai
Baxx wrote:Make up my mind about what?
The starter set was a pale demo with no content, most of it describing an alternative game, which no further expansions could build upon. There are no pets for the initial Goliath & Escher gangs! There are no Juves, Brutes, hangers-on, alliances, trading post, black market, campaigns, new scenarios or anything else either. No other gangs can play against them. They are alone, without any additional content. It's a dead system, and it died on day 1.
Everything released within the 1st year (with a few exceptions like the cult pdfs) is either abandoned or have been replaced by the compilation books. That includes the first 5 books.
We are watching releases come out for a game that is different in all aspects from the initial rulebook system. Nothing that has been released is compatible with that system.
There are many reasons why I call it toxic garbage, not just one example you point out like expecations.
The starter box game was dead at launch, that's a fact. Nobody is playing that system, nobody is discussing it. It's completely dead. Perhaps a few people made some demo games the first weeks or months, but anyone who could see where the development was going discarded it.
You may not agree with me, but I have scanned all changes in this game after every release. I've updated my own rules compilation every time, I noticed almost all differences, small and major. I know in great detail how the rules have evolved since November 2017. I've discussed every iteration of the rules in great deteail at yaktribe. Never saw reactions similar to yours there. You should join our discussions over at yaktribe, give some fresh perspectives!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sqorgar wrote:
Underhive was designed to be a largely self contained product. [...]
Yes I can agree with the way you describe it, but I still think it was a terrible idea the way most of these things were handled. Luckily we're passed all that now, but it is sad to see several of the same problems we suffered last year due to bad quality now is returning in the latest books.
Agreed. Underhive was as a demo trying to pass as a real game. It reminded me of the sports videogames demo where you can only play one off game with the same 2 teams.
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Post by: Resting One
Super glad for the system's progress currently.
Models coming out at a sane pace.
Content coming out at the same pace (far from perfect, but fixed by fans very quickly).
We know more models and content is coming.
Lots of new players coming onboard.
And the stuff is selling like hotcakes for GW.
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Post by: Altruizine
GW should just outsource the FAQ for something like this to the fans. There are people who will put in greater effort than anyone at GW has the time to, and GW will still have the final say upon review.
Same way they outsourced playtesting to tournament players.
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Post by: frozenwastes
That would be good.
So many of the issues seem to stem from not having fresh eyes on it. Often when you know what it is supposed to say and what rules a given thing is supposed to have you just don't see that the text says something different. Or notice that something is missing that you think is there.
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Post by: Sqorgar
Altruizine wrote:GW should just outsource the FAQ for something like this to the fans. There are people who will put in greater effort than anyone at GW has the time to, and GW will still have the final say upon review.
God no. Fans are fine at finding flaws, but they are terrible at correcting them. You can't trust people with a vested interest in the outcome of a change to be impartial in implementing it. If GW sees a change they don't like and deny it, you can be sure the person who suggested that change will be resolute in it being the magic bullet that fixes all the games ills, and like Baxx, spend the rest of their days trashing the game and its creators for not listening to their impeccable advice.
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Post by: Altruizine
Sqorgar wrote: Altruizine wrote:GW should just outsource the FAQ for something like this to the fans. There are people who will put in greater effort than anyone at GW has the time to, and GW will still have the final say upon review.
God no. Fans are fine at finding flaws, but they are terrible at correcting them. You can't trust people with a vested interest in the outcome of a change to be impartial in implementing it. If GW sees a change they don't like and deny it, you can be sure the person who suggested that change will be resolute in it being the magic bullet that fixes all the games ills, and like Baxx, spend the rest of their days trashing the game and its creators for not listening to their impeccable advice.
So, to summarize, your position over the past two pages is:
- the rules contain many typos and errors
- the rules contain many haphazard and incomplete ideas
- GW is pushing out the rules at an incredible rate and does not have time to extensively proof or FAQ them
- people who complain about the errors and incomplete ideas are "Engaged Detractors" who are making bad faith arguments
- people who pirate the error-filled, incomplete rules with no FAQs are immoral
- people who want the typos, errors and incomplete ideas to be fixed, with GW's endorsement, cannot be trusted to do this, because they will seek some sort of personal advantage
- individual players and gaming groups can be trusted to do this, because the solutions are obvious
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Post by: Sqorgar
Altruizine wrote:
So, to summarize, your position over the past two pages is:
- the rules contain many typos and errors
I wouldn’t say many. But mistakes do happen.
- the rules contain many haphazard and incomplete ideas
I consider this a selling point. I think haphazard and incomplete ideas are more fun than overly polished mediocrity. Like I said, Necromunda is punk. Being rough around the edges is a side effect of going it’s own path.
- GW is pushing out the rules at an incredible rate and does not have time to extensively proof or FAQ them
Sure.
- people who complain about the errors and incomplete ideas are "Engaged Detractors" who are making bad faith arguments
No, just Baxx.
- people who pirate the error-filled, incomplete rules with no FAQs are immoral
Is this an unusual or unreasonable position? Also, there is a FAQ.
- people who want the typos, errors and incomplete ideas to be fixed, with GW's endorsement, cannot be trusted to do this, because they will seek some sort of personal advantage
Not intentionally, but yes. Fans have a hard time seeing things from the viewpoint of non-fans or even fans with different opinions. Get a group of like minded fans together and they will steer the game into what kind of game they want it to be, which may not be what’s in the best interest for everybody. They also tend to take “no” very poorly.
- individual players and gaming groups can be trusted to do this, because the solutions are obvious
I trust a handful of people to fix the game for their own group.I don’t trust them to fix the game for everybody. Most of the mistakes are obvious, but going by the yak tribe thread linked earlier, there’s a few things which I thought leapt to conclusions that were based on the answers they wanted, not what they could reasonably draw from what’s actually there. Again, fine for a group, but not appropriate for everyone.
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Post by: Baxx
Sqorgar wrote: If GW sees a change they don't like and deny it, you can be sure the person who suggested that change will be resolute in it being the magic bullet that fixes all the games ills, and like Baxx, spend the rest of their days trashing the game and its creators for not listening to their impeccable advice.
Do you think I suggested rule changes to GW? Automatically Appended Next Post: Sqorgar wrote: Altruizine wrote: So, to summarize, your position over the past two pages is: - the rules contain many typos and errors
I wouldn’t say many. But mistakes do happen. - the rules contain many haphazard and incomplete ideas
It is more than many errors, I've seen most of them. One could easily list up several pages summarizing errors. The faq brought more confusion than it solved. It answered questions no one even cared to ask about! It would take very little time to clean up most of the errors before printing books. Instead, people ask every day for what the rules means, because it is impossible to understand.
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Post by: ingtaer
BrookM wrote:Kindly keep this thread for news and rumours, as I've said before in the past, take all discussion of custom house rules and how many errors one can find to a thread of its own please.
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Post by: frozenwastes
The issues with the latest release (Book of Judgement) is surely on topic. It's news about what the product is actually like. Or are we only allowed to point out the good things about the latest release?
The off topic problem though is that the errors are more of the same going back to the launch of underhive. Is it on or off topic to talk about how the community will react to the issues? About how it's disappointing that it's more of the same?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I do find interesting is that they are not forcing Necromunda to go along with current 40k lore. No cicatrix, primaris, indomitus crusade, guillliman or anything like that. This continues in the Book of Judgement. I'm having a growing appreciation for the Eisenhorn era of 40k so I'm a fan of them not forcing Necromunda to change with the newest fiction.
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Post by: Graphite
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, so, it turns out the eyes of GW are everywhere, as Andy E-mailed me before I could E-mail him.
If we want to give constructive good-faith feedback right to the horses mouth (so to speak), then I can pass it on.
I'm going to say "the Dev is in contact with someone here and listening if we're polite" is pretty newsworthy!
In that spirit - love the game, not keen on the strategy cards. Andy's an old school roleplayer, bring out the D100 tables!
For the second most recent release - the "Beastman" Venator profile seems to good at shooting. This isn't really a problem but seems wrong. Likewise scare grenades really don't seem to work as I believe they're intended to, and the debate on target priority for grenade launchers are epic. Not necessarily stuff that needs fixed, but a clarification on anything choices were made in designer notes would be fantastic.
If the mods don't want this sort of discussion here (which is fair enough) should we adjourn to a new thread?
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Post by: Chopstick
Graphite wrote:
For the second most recent release - the "Beastman" Venator profile seems to good at shooting. This isn't really a problem but seems wrong. Likewise scare grenades really don't seem to work as I believe they're intended to, and the debate on target priority for grenade launchers are epic. Not necessarily stuff that needs fixed, but a clarification on anything choices were made in designer notes would be fantastic.
What is the "Beastman" Venator Profile? I recall the only "beastman" profle with T4/S4 have crap BS+
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Post by: Graphite
Nope, that's for the Beastie hunt leader and champ with 5+. The normal Hunter is 4+.
Which really looks like a typo, but has the side effect of making the normal Squat a bit rubbish.
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Post by: Baxx
The version 2 stats has not changed from version 1, so this case goes back to white dwarf may last year. I think that was the only publication without errors, mainly because it was all new content and they didn't include any weapon profiles in it.
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Post by: zamerion
News for necromunda at NOVA!!!
Please ash waste nomads!!!
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Post by: Danny76
News for nearly everything.
Just no BB or AT I think.
Unless something else is missing
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Post by: Segersgia
I recall someone posting concept art of the new Ash Waste Nomads last year or something. Does anyone still have them?
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Post by: Segersgia
zamerion wrote: Segersgia wrote:I recall someone posting concept art of the new Ash Waste Nomads last year or something. Does anyone still have them?
they said at least one year for release.
i hope not.
Thank you. These still look absolutely gorgeous concepts.
I'm either expecting these to be revealed at NOVA, or we might be getting our first look at Guilder models.
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Post by: Elbows
Now if only they'd be smart and put the riders out in plastic so people could field kit-bashed Rough Riders...
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Post by: Dread Master
Nova will probably preview the Q4 Necromunda release, which I am assuming will be the plastic juves/specialist kit said to have been finished and ready for release.
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Post by: kestral
Well, those concepts are not very helpful - but if they even vaguely live up to the billing, I'll buy them.
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Post by: Voss
Huh. GW has really been shaking up the art styles lately. I like it.
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Post by: kendoka
I hope they will first release a second Enforcer *plastic* kit: Subjugators...
I guess Palanites sold really well and another ”Adeptus Arbites” box would make Enforcers even more interesting as an 40k army.
A resin kit (as expected) wouldnt sell a fraction of a boxed plastic one.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
*nevermind!*
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Post by: zedmeister
May see the rumoured gang expansion boxes that have extra sculpts as well as Juves and specialists.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Some of those nomad concepts almost look like the art we've seen for the upcoming WarCry warbands.
Probably just coincidence.
Thursday should be interesting!
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Post by: zamerion
So, corpse grinder cult?
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Post by: Thargrim
Looks like it to me, shame they didn't just unveil them though. I assume these will be the guys covered in flayed skin and stuff.
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Post by: Chopstick
New starter? Maybe? But who'll be the other gang?
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Post by: Bob Lorgar
I dunno, kind of reminded me of Karloth Valois.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
There was a White Dwarf list for fielding Pit Slave gangs back during Necromunda's second edition, could that have something to do with this I wonder. The "revolt" aspect would fit perhaps, but the stuff about "the lord of skin and sinew," not so much.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Pit Slave gangs were fun. I still have one... somewhere.
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Post by: zedmeister
Cult Helots? Scavvies? Karloth Valois wandering round with hoards of plague zombies?
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Post by: Baxx
Corpse Grinder Cult (with a twist of Khorne).
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Post by: zamerion
Baxx wrote:Corpse Grinder Cult (with a twist of Khorne).
Maybe something like that?
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Darnit, I was hoping for the Ash Waste Nomads. Between them and the Cawdor kit I could make some damn nice wasteland Mechanicus. I'm already working on Imperial Guard allies for them by using parts of the Cawdor kit, as well as Empire Flagellant bodies. A release like this would be fantastic. I especially want the long rifles to use as Galvanic Rifle replacements.
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Post by: Chopstick
Fenriswulf wrote:Darnit, I was hoping for the Ash Waste Nomads. Between them and the Cawdor kit I could make some damn nice wasteland Mechanicus. I'm already working on Imperial Guard allies for them by using parts of the Cawdor kit, as well as Empire Flagellant bodies. A release like this would be fantastic. I especially want the long rifles to use as Galvanic Rifle replacements.
Could be new starter with Ash waste vs watever this thing is. The way they announce Dark Uprising seem like a new season more than the usual gang reveal teaser.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Well if that is the case, colour me excited for the release!
I'll likely need to go online to find a good splitter to supply me the components if you can't buy the gang separately, but nowadays that's not so hard.
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Post by: Grot 6
Have you read the books yet? The Book of Peril , and the Book of Judgement both have like 10 more factional sets and the other single characters that have to be produced first.
Let me just go through just a a few here...
Starting with your "Corpsegrinder "Cult"... it's not a cult, its a Guild.
In The Book of Peril, page 22- 39 they talk about the Guilds, the Alliances that gangs can make, and the Guild representatives that join your gang for the duration of the Alliance. If your gang makes an alliance, depending on the guild will tell you what assets you get, benefits that the gang gets, and the allies that you are allotted to your gang for the story/ campaign.
List of Guilds and their Representatives. (Each of them still need figures, either a team or a single figure...)
1. Water Guild (Nautican Siphoning Delegation)
2. Promethium Guild (Pyromantic Conclave)
3. Corpse Guild (Corpse Harvesting Party)
4. Slave guild (Slave Entourage)
5. Guild of Coin (Toll Collectors)
6. Iron Guild (Wandering Scum)
There is also a Myriad of Bounty Hunters and Characters through the book that you get an idea of what the tone of the representatives look like. Then there hazard zones, which would more then likely lead you to modeling and making your own representation.
The background material in the books is like 40K is, and adds more character and information on Necromunda proper. NO, the basic box set was only a simple two gang "This is how you play" game, then the rest of the books and the added material give you more material to add to the game to expand it.
Make no mistake, this game is a living project. The thing we need to do is to keep GW on task, and call them when they overstep the mark and go off task.
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Post by: Chopstick
Corpse harvesting party is .... a food and cleanup service. While the other is a cult. Could be corspe grinder cult, could be some chaos cult, GW still haven't confirmed.
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Post by: Grot 6
Second book, The Book of Judgement.
In this book there are a few of the same principles on Alliances, only this time it is from the criminal underground perspective.
So far, we have the Palanite Enforcers, your basic cops in beat in the Underhive who get called in if your gang gets too uppity. But also, they get called in for more.... enterprising pursuits.
The factions you have a choice to get additional support from in the Book of Judgement who will also need characters and squads for include-
1.Cold Traders (Smuggler Shore Party- Void Born Bounty Hunters)
2. Imperial Imposters (Master Charlatan- Uphive Ambassadors)
3. Rogue Factoria (1.Ammo Jack hanger on- Hedge Armorer, 2.Factory Work Gang)
4. Narco Lords (Hive Scum - Narco Scum)
5. Fallen Houses (Rebel Lord)
5. Psi- Syndica (Mind locked Wyrd)
6. Smuggler Shore Party ( this is a squad. more then likely going to be a release.) joins the gang for the duration
7. Master Charlatan ( character model.) joins the gang for the duration
8. Factoria Work Gang (this is a squad. more then likely going to be a release.) joins the gang for the duration
9. Rebel Lord (character model.) joins the gang for the duration
10. Mind Locked Wyrd (character model.) joins the gang for the duration These would be like the old characters from Necromunda 1st edition. - No Beastmaster though...
Then there is the weapons load outs for the Enforcers, and the additional characters, rookie troops, and added heads and leader that I suspect we will see pretty soon.
As with the Book of Peril, the Book of Judgement also has a Dramatis Persona with 6 more character models. There are a couple more dotted through the books, but on the whole, I expect that the GW crew is cranking out these books with a base squad, and a couple of guys per team, and then they can put more effort into what sells or not. The problem that they have though is that they are throwing too much spaghetti at the wall and not waiting to see what sticks before the go on to the next book.
And finally, the hired guns, hangers on, and Dramatis Persona as with the other books.
Just think, ladies, These are only the first couple of books. They hint at the rest of the hive in these books, and you get to touch on the ash wastes briefly in discussion, as well as uphive life, which by all accounts looks like another whole book that I expect will include the Ratskins and the Ash wasters.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Chopstick wrote:Corpse harvesting party is .... a food and cleanup service. While the other is a cult. Could be corspe grinder cult, could be some chaos cult, GW still haven't confirmed.
They have an added chaos cult, that's not that far off of a stretch. especially in leu of how the campaign system leads you to add in other GW products and characters. I can easily see one of these factional teams masquerading as such, and in reality end up being found out as a chaos cult, and your gang has to make the choice of joining the chaos cult, or fighting through a route through the rest of the Hive like in the movie "The Warriors".
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Post by: Sqorgar
Chopstick wrote:
Could be new starter with Ash waste vs watever this thing is. The way they announce Dark Uprising seem like a new season more than the usual gang reveal teaser.
A new starter seems WAY too optimistic for how GW has been handling Necromunda so far.
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Post by: Overread
Hey did anyone hear any thing about phyre cats at the Nova? I know they got taken back to be redone but that what - year ago or more?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'll guess this is a 'new way to play', multiple gangs teaming up against this new force of scary stuff trying to invade the hive by the back door
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Got my Enforcers and they are fun little guys. Anyone tried arm swaps? Using mine as Arbites by way of Krieg and I want to give them meltas and flamers.
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Post by: Grot 6
I'll be adding in some Meltas and sniper rifles to mine. Hope we can get the storm shields and power mauls, for riot control in the weapons sets. New Bounty Hunters- Apollus Kage & Krotus Hark are now out. No information on the phyre cats just yet, though. I wonder what the Recruits are going to look like?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Apollus-Kage-And-Krotos-Hark-2019
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Post by: Baxx
Grot 6 wrote:Have you read the books yet? The Book of Peril , and the Book of Judgement both have like 10 more factional sets and the other single characters that have to be produced first.
Let me just go through just a a few here...
Starting with your "Corpsegrinder "Cult"... it's not a cult, its a Guild.
Have you read the book?
Let me quote from page 80:
REDEMPTIONIST BACKERS(TWOOFCLUBS)
The Cult of the Redemption is not a forgiving creed and its most fanatical supporters often funnel money and equipment to those who are going to pursue its goals.
Linked Rackets: Promethium Guild Bond, Witch Seeking.
RACKETBOONS
Special: Helot Cult, Genestealer Cult and Corpse Grinder Cult gangs may never claim this Racket. If they gain control of it, it becomes dormant until claimed by a different type of gang."
I don't think it makes sense specifying that certain guilds cannot have certain rackets. Unless this is another of the countless errors in this book?
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Post by: Grot 6
Baxx wrote: Grot 6 wrote:Have you read the books yet? The Book of Peril , and the Book of Judgement both have like 10 more factional sets and the other single characters that have to be produced first.
Let me just go through just a a few here...
Starting with your "Corpsegrinder "Cult"... it's not a cult, its a Guild.
Have you read the book?
Let me quote from page 80:
REDEMPTIONIST BACKERS(TWOOFCLUBS)
The Cult of the Redemption is not a forgiving creed and its most fanatical supporters often funnel money and equipment to those who are going to pursue its goals.
Linked Rackets: Promethium Guild Bond, Witch Seeking.
RACKETBOONS
Special: Helot Cult, Genestealer Cult and Corpse Grinder Cult gangs may never claim this Racket. If they gain control of it, it becomes dormant until claimed by a different type of gang."
I don't think it makes sense specifying that certain guilds cannot have certain rackets. Unless this is another of the countless errors in this book?
What are you on about? I talked about nearly 20 more additional groups, and you are all over the map just like the rest of your posts here have been. These books are bound to have mistakes, look at how much is in each one. Name me one game that ever came out of the gate satisfying everyone?
Maybe you have some information on how that would work, but I'm fine with … you know... If you find an issue, make a note, make a decision local, and call it a day. And since you are being a nitpick, go back and read the actual posts, son. I didn't say anything about errors in the book, my subject of the conversation was additional units/ groups within the books that are yet to come out as figures.
Since when would a Genestealer cult work with Cawdor, by the way?
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Post by: Baxx
Grot 6 wrote: What are you on about? I talked about nearly 20 more additional groups, and you are all over the map just like the rest of your posts here have been. These books are bound to have mistakes, look at how much is in each one. Name me one game that ever came out of the gate satisfying everyone? Maybe you have some information on how that would work, but I'm fine with … you know... If you find an issue, make a note, make a decision local, and call it a day. And since you are being a nitpick, go back and read the actual posts, son. I didn't say anything about errors in the book, my subject of the conversation was additional units/ groups within the books that are yet to come out as figures. Since when would a Genestealer cult work with Cawdor, by the way?
Is corpsegrinder cult a cult or a guild? Genestealer cult is a cult, not a guild. I don't see how that have any relevance? It has no impact to the argument I made. And btw, this discussion is quite hostile!
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Post by: Grot 6
Its stated as a Guild. One of many.
The group that joins the gang is called a Corpse Harvesting Party. No cult, no gang( Just yet.)
Book of Peril, Page 80 is a Manufactorum Raid Scenario.
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Post by: Yodhrin
I don't get what's the confuzzlement is here tbh.
Corpse Guild.
Corpsegrinder Cult.
Two distinct things, no?
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Post by: Clockpunk
Necromunda revised hardback rulebook, c. p37 (on the pdf), covering the background fluff of M40, specifically mentions the Corpse Grinder cults specifically dedicated to Khorne and fuelled by pure cannibalism. Makes sense that the next book might cover them, print GSC proper, under the premise of exploring alternate hives. Perhaps even with a couple of new bad zone peril tilesets, covering Secundus and Arcos...
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Post by: ImAGeek
Yodhrin wrote:I don't get what's the confuzzlement is here tbh.
Corpse Guild.
Corpsegrinder Cult.
Two distinct things, no?
Yeah, they’re different things.
This is the Corpse Guild:
Corpsegrinder Cult is apparently some kind of Khornate Cult.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yodhrin wrote:I don't get what's the confuzzlement is here tbh.
Corpse Guild.
Corpsegrinder Cult.
Two distinct things, no?
Since N17's release, Baxx appears to be under the impression that something having a slightly different name makes it not only a different entity, but also one that completely replaces the other.
It's why he thinks that the Book of Judgement's rules for pacts completely override the Book of Peril's rules, even though they don't.
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Post by: Chopstick
I blame GW for their terrible unexplained "teaser"
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Post by: Mr_Rose
What is possibly confusing things is that the Corpse Guild entry in the Book of Peril refers to the guild handing corpses over to the corpse grinders for processing.
I personally interpreted that to mean the guild has a go-to House-equivalent that is not officially part of the Guild for legal reasons, like the Iron Guild and the Orlocks. This makes the guild “neutral” and stops the grinders gaining too much power.
How this relates to cults is a mystery at this time but I suspect something like the corpse grinder job/lifestyle (same thing on Necromunda) having a negative impact on their sanity, what with no-one else wanting much to do with them on a personal level, so they end up insular and isolated and cultish. Then add the right push and they fall right off the wagon into chaos worship, maybe.
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Post by: Baxx
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's why he thinks that the Book of Judgement's rules for pacts completely override the Book of Peril's rules, even though they don't.
Wasn't aware I thought such a thing. I was a bit hasty on my judgement, but the starting alliance seems to be replaced. You're correct that the rest is add-on. Automatically Appended Next Post: Grot 6 wrote: What are you on about? I talked about nearly 20 more additional groups, and you are all over the map just like the rest of your posts here have been. These books are bound to have mistakes, look at how much is in each one. Name me one game that ever came out of the gate satisfying everyone? Maybe you have some information on how that would work, but I'm fine with … you know... If you find an issue, make a note, make a decision local, and call it a day. And since you are being a nitpick, go back and read the actual posts, son. I didn't say anything about errors in the book, my subject of the conversation was additional units/ groups within the books that are yet to come out as figures. Since when would a Genestealer cult work with Cawdor, by the way?
I thought my quote should clearly show what I'm on about. The rules specify a list of gangs that cannot have a racket. One of those gangs are the corpse grinder cult. If you insist on this being a guild, why should the rules specify that a guild cannot have a racket? So far, no guilds (corpse or otherwise) can have any rackets. Does that makes sense to you? I can't name a single game with as many mistakes as this one. But what does that got to do with satisfaction? I'm satisfied with the game, just not the quality. I'm also fine when playing the game, to make a decision or roll off. But we're not playing a game here, we're discussion new stuff for Necromunda. I'm much more fine with rules that don't require house ruling, rules that have actually been tested first, rules that aren't broken out of the box. Are you, father? I didn't say you said anything about the errors in the book. And again, Genestealer and Cawdor are completely irrelevant in the quote. Interesting to see how personal this discussion can become at times.
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Post by: kendoka
Grot 6 wrote:Have you read the books yet? The Book of Peril , and the Book of ... Starting with your "Corpsegrinder "Cult"... it's not a cult, its a Guild.
No. You should try following your own advice and read the books...
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Post by: Graphite
That actually seems like quite an amount of cool stuff the book of judgement, and probably more up my street than being in thrall to the guilds....
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Post by: zamerion
https://spikeybits.com/2019/09/qa-session-reveals-more-on-gw-new-fall-releases.html
Explore cults and chaos in the underhive
New 3D terrain
Can anyone confirm that this was said?
if so, the theory that it is a new box with 2 gangs is quite possible
EDIT!!
Zone mortalis is in last chance to buy!!!
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Eeewwwww! Spikeybits!
Anyone got a link to a different news provider?
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Post by: Chopstick
It come in November so we don't have to wait that long for a preview.
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Post by: zamerion
Chopstick wrote:
It come in November so we don't have to wait that long for a preview.
not soon enough
it also seems that there are no seminars until the beginning of November ..
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Post by: Danny76
Bear in mind that at a previous open daynor some such (one or two before last perhaps..)
They said rather than doing the Outland stuff they were likely to look at new stuff for the next gangs, which was also when they showed the guild stuff originally.
Just in case anyone is still thinking Ratskins or whatever else we used to have..
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Post by: Grot 6
Reading is Fundamental
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yodhrin wrote:I don't get what's the confuzzlement is here tbh.
Corpse Guild.
Corpsegrinder Cult.
Two distinct things, no?
The confusion comes from that guy in thinking I was talking about the corpsegrinders as a cult in the new books. THEY HAVEN'T COME OUT YET, and he was thinking they were addressed in the two new books.
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Post by: kendoka
Grot 6: Chill.
Read ”The Book of Judgement”, page 80, quote:
”Helot Cult, Genestealer Cult and *Corpse Grinder Cult* gangs may never...”
I.e. Corpsegrinders are (will be) a CULT (and yes, the Corpse Guild is a guild).
Please just accept the fact that Baxx was/is right - and also consider to apologize for your childish and hostile outbreaks.
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Post by: BrookM
If we could all just take a step back and be polite to one another, that would be great.
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Post by: Grot 6
kendoka wrote:Grot 6: Chill.
Read ”The Book of Judgement”, page 80, quote:
”Helot Cult, Genestealer Cult and *Corpse Grinder Cult* gangs may never...”
I.e. Corpsegrinders are (will be) a CULT (and yes, the Corpse Guild is a guild).
Please just accept the fact that Baxx was/is right - and also consider to apologize for your childish and hostile outbreaks.
SMH.
Come back and fight me in November.
3
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Post by: Baxx
I'm not saying "Corpse" cannot be a future gang. But it certainly is described as a "Guild" in the new books. Didn't say anything about what others said about one or the other, just pointed out the fact that Corsegrinder Cult is mentioned in the new book. This means that we may or may not see a corpse (grinder) cult gang in the future. We already have the rules for corpse guild. They may or may not be related, but certainly a guild has distinct differences from a (cult) gang. This is a less friendly forum to discuss in it seems.
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Post by: Grot 6
Baxx wrote:I'm not saying "Corpse" cannot be a future gang. But it certainly is described as a "Guild" in the new books. Didn't say anything about what others said about one or the other, just pointed out the fact that Corsegrinder Cult is mentioned in the new book.
This means that we may or may not see a corpse (grinder) cult gang in the future. We already have the rules for corpse guild. They may or may not be related, but certainly a guild has distinct differences from a (cult) gang.
This is a less friendly forum to discuss in it seems.
Dude...
This is a fine forum.
The fact is that THIS is a future gang, it is more then likely coming out in November, seeing as we already had a teaser of what is coming in Uprising. I don't think I made that entirely clear. Especially when I get some other git besides you trying to step in and be cute with me.
When whatever Mod decided to remove my post, I had to go back at least 3 times and reread this thread from my information till now. The error comes in me not pointing out with a big neon sign- YES THEY ARE GOING TO BE A FUTURE GANG!
In the two books, ( BOOK OF JUDGMENT, BOOK OF PERIL) I pulled the info from, they didn't talk about them as included yet, and information already out there calls for them coming out in a future book.
I'd like to just conclude in apologizing to you if the posts in the thread were not entirely clear. I see where the error is when I didn't point it out exactly that they ARE going to be a future gang and only hinted it.
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Post by: Graphite
Anyone got any suggestions about Allying with the Imperial House which is mentioned several times in the Book of Crime?
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Post by: Baxx
Do you mean Imperial Impostors (outlaw alliance)?
55408
Post by: Graphite
Nope. In the "Proxy" Hangers-on rules, P89
"If an outlaw gang is ever required to Test the Alliance with the Merchants Guild or the Imperial House then..."
So logically you can ally with the Imperial House.
I'm sure I saw it somewhere else as well.
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Post by: Baxx
Is the Imperial House described anywhere else in the rules? If not, this is something we may or may not see in the future.
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Post by: Graphite
Nowhere I can find
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Post by: Clockpunk
I must be going daft(er) - I *know* I have seen them somewhere, but cannot find the rules for Manstopper rounds anywhere! Could anyone please point me in the right direction...?
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Post by: zamerion
Every time I see a new comment on this topic, I get excited thinking it's some news about dark uprising. But no.
I have gangs and scenography projects on hold, until I see if this will be a new box, or just a gang.
And surely we have to wait another month to know something ..
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Post by: Baxx
Clockpunk wrote:I must be going daft(er) - I *know* I have seen them somewhere, but cannot find the rules for Manstopper rounds anywhere! Could anyone please point me in the right direction...?
Pm me, I got the complete list of all weapon profiles and costs.
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Post by: Grot 6
Graphite wrote:Anyone got any suggestions about Allying with the Imperial House which is mentioned several times in the Book of Crime?
When he's talking about "Imperial Houses" he is either talking about one of several different angles to play a criminal campaign.
"The Book of Judgement".
Your gang starts out with one of several criminal alliances. (p.12) You can include any of the Alliances as your Imperial House(or imposter) and you get specific benefits per alliance.
If I were to have a campaign, I would start with a couple of gangs, one being an Enforcer Squad, One being an Imperial House "Gang", that would easily be able to use one of their own alliances, while making alliances with different gangs in the campaign.
This book includes the 20 different factional "Gangs" by not really calling them as such. You just put them together and run the Gang sheet with them listed on it as your "Gang".
Building on my example, I'd have a fallen Imperial House team of a few of the characters in the book, and some from the book of peril, as you construct a unconventional gang.
My example-
The leader of my gang is Rebel Lord Krell, of the house … Haerkonan. In his backstory, Krell is like a 16th son, twice removed and so far down the lineage that he has to eek out his way as a Rogue Trader, but lost his ship in an engagement, that left his crew and hangers on stranded on Necromunda.
With that, We start with his crew. Add 3 fighters, a psyche, and maybe a mutant in there for laughs.
This Ex Rogue Trader is willing to bend, break, and remake rules to get off the planet, so He makes alliances from everyone from Rebel factions, to gangs, to the local Enforcer squad who he has on the take, with a good selection of muties and hangers on, combined with his Guilder contacts from on high, who like him for his connections at the space dock, and traders that he knows off world...
Your Arbiter would have to play the Rogue Trader for awhile, until it fleshed itself out into a real gang, and then it would become playable. Within that You use the Grounded Rebel Lord Haerkonan as a Protagonist for the other gangs as he weaves a web of crime and uses the results tog et his crew, establish more of a base, and take over territories to get his ride to the stars back....
You can then use either campaign Idea from the book of Peril, or the Book of Crime to get the gangs either working for him, or working against him for unnamed puppetmasters, such as the REAL criminal mastermind in the territory, ( Who is also a Genestealer Magus) or the Chaos Cult of Slanish Leader, who is also a courtesan for one of the upper hive.)
The gangs have to hit their assigned tasks, take territory, attain drugs, rob a bank, kill someone, etc... as the campaign continues.
Later on, you might even fight your way to the elevator, blow up a promethium stockpile/ pipeline, and kidnap the genestealer Magus who is hidden deep in enemy territory, while being persued by bounty Hunters and a particular assassin of note- Bob The Fat or Fat Bob...
You can run the gangs in Criminal Campaigns, Peril Campaigns, or a combination, with straight firefights in there, and a pile on battle on Fridays and Saturdays that become Be all end all to gangs health...
Harken back to Guy Ritchie films, Tarentineo flicks, or the Spaghetti westerns, you have a great selection to build a memorable campaign out of by mixing and matching information and making it your own.
Just a thought.
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Post by: Graphite
a) I'm more or less certain that isn't what the book means by Imperial House Allies
b) That campaign sounds AWESOME.
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Post by: Grot 6
Oh no... There's like 20 or 30 different ones, from criminal types to Guild types.
It runs the gambit. You just have to pick and chose whatever works for your campaign. The problem with these books is that they might have the problem of giving out TOO much information.
Examples in there like- Some of them, it's like they just made them up the day before printing just to fill them in the book. Others, I can see what they tried to do, but in the execution, they lost some of the points in translation, such as using the card deck, or adding in the cards for the gangs, then you lose that aspect as you delve into the books
( Page 12 on in the chapter Criminal Alliances of the Book of Judgement, your talking about Criminal Alliances in depth, but then it gets to specifics, they leave the composition open to suggestion...)
( Section on Intrigues, as added in, and the Subplots from the rulebook- you pick and choose, and seriously, we just picked the ones we wanted to use, or you lose time screwing around.)
A LOT of these rules are take it or leave it rules. You don't have to get wrapped around the axle on their letter, as long as the spirit of your gang campaign play works in your group.
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Post by: Clockpunk
Baxx wrote:Clockpunk wrote:I must be going daft(er) - I *know* I have seen them somewhere, but cannot find the rules for Manstopper rounds anywhere! Could anyone please point me in the right direction...?
Pm me, I got the complete list of all weapon profiles and costs.
Thanks for the offer, but just wanting to confirm I wasn't going mad - as with the current hardback books it looks like Manstopper rounds aren't present or have been accidentally overlooked - despite being in some gang setup loadouts (Enforcers, for one).
Here's hoping we see the FW upgrade kits for them soon - we must be due of preview or two or *something* related to the Underhive...
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Post by: Baxx
You're not gonna find a list of all stuff in any publication from GW. They spread stuff around different pages and books. If you need a complete overview, you gotta go fanmade.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Any rumors about enforcers upgrade sets? Potential contents?
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Post by: zamerion
I settle for any kind of rumor
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Post by: Resting One
GW plans to make new Emperor and Horus minis for an exhibition battle on Necromunda.
Tentative title: HERESY IN THE HIVE.
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Resting One wrote:GW plans to make new Emperor and Horus minis for an exhibition battle on Necromunda.
Tentative title: HERESY IN THE HIVE.
This guy....this guy.....he is a bad man...
If FW wanted to print money they would make a traditional Arbites head as an upgrade.
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Post by: BrookM
You can always take all off-topic banter and fan project promotion to a topic of its own and let this thread rest until actual news and / or rumours surface.
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Post by: skeptic_monkey
Ran across a snippet of info: Necromunda Book of Ruin. Not sure if that's known yet.
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Post by: Chikout
Here's a piece of news for you. People have digging info from a company that ships products from China where gw makes their terrain. One such kit is Zone Mortalis floors!
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Post by: zamerion
https://es.panjiva.com/Wargames-Factory-Ltd/33258484
PLASTIC MODEL P O 309286 REF. -M 99120299055 DOMINION OF SIGMAR FRACTURED STORMTHRONE QTY 1670 PCS 835 CTNS P O 309287 REF. -M 99120299058 DOMINION OF SIGMAR ASTROLITHIC SKYSHRINE QTY 1670 PCS 835CTNS P O 309265 REF. -M 99120599017 ZONE MORTALIS FLOORS[u] QTY 1883 PCS 236 CTNS HS CODE NO. 95030090 ORIGIN CHINA
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
really happy day
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Post by: zedmeister
Good lord, they’re really going to put out plastic Zone Mortalis?!
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Forge World stopped selling the resin version a little while back so we’ve sort of been quietly hoping/expecting that something like this would happen.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Really want to see what the AoS things are.
Prediction would be 2x2 worth of tiles, and then plastic walls/doors that you can stick on in any config you prefer.
Of course if GW were super clever they'd make the floors compatible with the Sector Mechanicus stuff...
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Post by: Chopstick
Affordable (more than FW) made in China ZM? Nice!
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Post by: Arbitrator
Do you really think they'd do anything but put out a plastic version for pretty much the same price?
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Post by: Chopstick
Same price as other GW made in china terrain. Certainly will be cheaper than 25US$ for a blast door.
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Post by: BrookM
If true, would be great news. Have always wanted to get a few ZM tiles, but due to price and the amount of warping of the parts never committed to it.
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Post by: Yodhrin
H.B.M.C. wrote:Really want to see what the AoS things are.
Prediction would be 2x2 worth of tiles, and then plastic walls/doors that you can stick on in any config you prefer.
Of course if GW were super clever they'd make the floors compatible with the Sector Mechanicus stuff...
Indeed. They could even go really hog-wild and use the additional height SectorMech compatibility would allow the walls to make them complete, rather than driving some of us mad by cutting it off right before the arch finishes
We'll see based on the prices etc, but if they're reasonably affordable with an online discount and they tweak them a bit to do stuff like you suggest, I'll probably just buy the plastic rather than fannying about 3D printing a table's worth.
Have the recent cross-compatible Sector terrain kits all been Chinesium, or were they made in-house? I think that will probably be the biggest indicator of how likely these are to be compatible.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yodhrin wrote:Have the recent cross-compatible Sector terrain kits all been Chinesium, or were they made in-house? I think that will probably be the biggest indicator of how likely these are to be compatible.
The Sector Mechanicus and Sector Imperialis kits? They're GW's regular plastic. Can't say the same about the newest AoS stuff as I haven't seen it in person. I presume the Warcry stuff is regular GW plastic as well, but I won't know until I collect my set from the post office tomorrow. "Chinesium" terrain I haven't seen since the big defence line bunkers/Plasma Blast Gun turrets/Promethium Pipe kits.
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Post by: Chopstick
If something is made in china it will say so in the back of the box, GW isn't trying to trick you, I'm not at home to check my boxes but this picture should be example.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It's not about tricking people. They have used different grade plastic for terrain in the past.
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Post by: Chopstick
They are cheaper for a reason. Also some of the stuff have low effort detail, like the AT building.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ha. If only they were cheaper for us.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Definitely gonna start saving for this
Fingers crossed that they are close to the FW resin and the Necro printed tiles in style and size.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
There's nothing inherently inferior about Chinese GW plastic. They do often use China for less detailed kits (Endless Spells and most faction terrain) but some of their higest grade kits (like Warhammer Underworlds warbands) are also made in China.
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Post by: Chopstick
Bold claim but I'm pretty sure WU band is GW made in UK
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Wasn't really implying that. But there were some terrain kits that came out that were noticeably different from GW's usual stuff (and not just because them came off the sprue in plastic bags inside the box).
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'd agree with that some of the 'made in china' terrain stuff was noticibly poorer both in terms of casting (stuff just not lining up properly) but also design to the extent that it didn't seem to be done by the same design/sculpting team (whether that was old physically made stuff scanned in to create the 3d stuff or just trainee sculptors)
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Post by: Theophony
Or if they’d ship direct to you instead of around the world . China-England-Drop Bear land. Maybe they’d save some on gas.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
No prize for you
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Post by: Chopstick
Only Mollog mob and Godsworn hunt seem to be the odd one out, the rest are made in UK
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Post by: lord_blackfang
The point stands, China can make the highest detailed kits just fine.
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Post by: Baxx
New mini-campaign in White Dwarf! Can have a look at youtube, multiple reviews on the latest white dwarf (october 2019).
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Post by: Obispudkenobi
The cards are produced in China the models are molded in the UK
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Post by: zamerion
come on GW show us Dark uprising!!
Anyone know what day is Essen spiel's seminar?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Baxx wrote:New mini-campaign in White Dwarf! Can have a look at youtube, multiple reviews on the latest white dwarf (october 2019).
I'll wait for it be collated in "Necromunda: Everything We Released This Year, Minus Some Things, But With Other New Things". I also appreciate how the Assault on Precinct 17 campaign that is all about the Enforcers wasn't in the Book of Judgement.
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Post by: Baxx
It's already being collated into my 100% complete necromunda rules document. Ain't got time to wait! Seems like WD articles (for Necromunda at least) is reserved for test versions, and we may later see a finished version in pdf or books. But then, books are also released in test versions...
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Post by: godswildcard
So if someone were just starting out in Necromunda with the starter box, what else would they need?
You guys are confusing me! (Although, admittedly, that is becoming less difficult to achieve...)
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Post by: Voss
What books you want depends on what gangs and additional rules you want. Navigating that is... just a mess.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
But not if you're trying to answer godswildcard's quite simple question...
godswildcard wrote:So if someone were just starting out in Necromunda with the starter box, what else would they need? This and this. The first one is the rulebook for the game, the second are the rules for the core 6 gangs (and various other add-ons, hired guns and so on). If you're just starting out these two books are fine and you wouldn't need anything else.
Well... except the Gang Cards, but you can't buy them any more because Games Workshop.
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Post by: Chopstick
godswildcard wrote:So if someone were just starting out in Necromunda with the starter box, what else would they need?
You guys are confusing me! (Although, admittedly, that is becoming less difficult to achieve...)
Oh god, don't ever buy the underhive starter box. pick the gang you want and buy it alongside the Gang of the Underhive and the Rulebook.
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Post by: Sqorgar
Chopstick wrote:Oh god, don't ever buy the underhive starter box. pick the gang you want and buy it alongside the Gang of the Underhive and the Rulebook.
Underhive is fine as a starter set. Includes two gangs, tactics cards, dice set(x2?), templates, tokens, scatter terrain (doors, barricades, boxes), and cardboard sector tiles for roughly $100. It's a great deal for what you get. It includes a lot of stuff you need but probably don't want to pay a lot for (like $15 dice packs). It's true that Underhive is not the final form of Necromunda (and this was the case when it launched), but it is a good STARTER set.
If you begin with the starter set, then all you need is the rulebook + gang book.
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Post by: Thargrim
The book in the starter is now outdated, for sure. But the physical contents of the box are pretty worth it, in terms of models/terrain/boards. Entry into the game does seem a bit convoluted for new players though. I'd like to see them do another box that is more future proofed.
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Post by: godswildcard
Thanks everyone!
I feel like I did pretty well for $125...
1
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Post by: Sqorgar
Thargrim wrote:I'd like to see them do another box that is more future proofed.
I'd like to see Necromunda get more than the most cursory support, with products that are sold for more than a week and half the game limited to ForgeWorld resin. Also, given how much GW charges for things these days, I can only imagine what a new Necromunda box set would cost... We'll probably miss the ForgeWorld resin prices...
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
50% off makes it worthwhile.
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Post by: Baxx
godswildcard wrote:So if someone were just starting out in Necromunda with the starter box, what else would they need? You guys are confusing me! (Although, admittedly, that is becoming less difficult to achieve...)
You want the easy solution? Get a rules compilation pdf and complete cards pdf. Hard way? Buy the 2 rulebooks (rules + gangs), then buy Book of Perils and Book of Judgement. You might as well download the free official Chaos Cult pdf, Genestealer cult pdf and additional tactics cards pdf. For miniatures, if you want max customization, get an extra gang box (escher and/or goliath) and get extra weapon bits (leftovers from 40k or gang specific from Forge World). Stuff like flamers, heavy bolters, heavy stubbers, boltguns, boltpistols etc. Maybe exotic beasts (Forge World, convert or 3rd party). Maybe Brutes ( GW, convert or 3rd party). You may find it useful with some additional tokens not included in the starter box. This may be generic tokens you already have, 3rd party or hard-to-get out of production necromunda tokens. Stuff like wounds, intoxication, webbed, insanity ++. You may want additional tactics cards and underdog tactics cards. These are mostly no longer for sale, so good luck. You may want additional Zone Mortalis (2D) tiles, the Badzone Delta-7 box. This is no longer for sale, so good luck again.
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Post by: Grot 6
Baxx wrote: godswildcard wrote:So if someone were just starting out in Necromunda with the starter box, what else would they need?
You guys are confusing me! (Although, admittedly, that is becoming less difficult to achieve...)
You want the easy solution? Get a rules compilation pdf and complete cards pdf. Hard way? Buy the 2 rulebooks (rules + gangs), then buy Book of Perils and Book of Judgement. You might as well download the free official Chaos Cult pdf, Genestealer cult pdf and additional tactics cards pdf.
For miniatures, if you want max customization, get an extra gang box (escher and/or goliath) and get extra weapon bits (leftovers from 40k or gang specific from Forge World). Stuff like flamers, heavy bolters, heavy stubbers, boltguns, boltpistols etc. Maybe exotic beasts (Forge World, convert or 3rd party). Maybe Brutes ( GW, convert or 3rd party).
You may find it useful with some additional tokens not included in the starter box. This may be generic tokens you already have, 3rd party or hard-to-get out of production necromunda tokens. Stuff like wounds, intoxication, webbed, insanity ++.
You may want additional tactics cards and underdog tactics cards. These are mostly no longer for sale, so good luck.
You may want additional Zone Mortalis (2D) tiles, the Badzone Delta-7 box. This is no longer for sale, so good luck again.
^ THIS.
The boxed set is excellent to start out with. You don't even need all of the minis to start playing.
You can put your list together with about 4 or 5 and make your own gang list up the same way we did back in the day. That way, you have the other gangers for upgrades, or gangers to buy after the fights are all over. A gang leader, a couple of gangers 2 with range weapons, 2 with hand to hand, and maybe make one of them a heavy.
Read through what you have onhand, then go for the next add on, such as an additional box of gangers per gang, and maybe a new gang form another house.
100% agreement in downloading the website downloads. They are where you can get the cards from without buying them all. USE CARDSTOCK, and laminate them for added support. that way you can use a grease pencil or a dry erase marker for the cards. Other then that, just download the gang roster and use that.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
What part of "just starting out" did you folks not understand?
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Post by: Gimgamgoo
H.B.M.C. wrote:What part of "just starting out" did you folks not understand?
Isn't that how GW view "just starting out"?
Roughly translated to "buy everything".
What's killed my interest, along with most GW stuff these days, is the part where people say "good luck getting those, they're out of print". I really dislike how half the stuff GW spew out these days is unofficially limited edition and is often sold out on pre-order.
It's such a pain getting your friends to play. They come round for a demo game, have fun and say they'll buy into it, only to find the stuff is no longer available.
GW games used to spread and grow through friends and recommendations, now, sales seem to be based around existing gamers and fomo.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Don't forget "throw out $300 worth of books because they are like... so last year."
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Post by: Chopstick
New preview at Spiel this Thursday.
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Post by: Voss
H.B.M.C. wrote:What part of "just starting out" did you folks not understand?
All of it. At no point when starting something have I ever wanted incomplete rules or instructions.
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Post by: Clockpunk
Wow! Fantastic all round. Although it is a shame there don't seem to be any female warriors for either side... but I think I shall be opting for a couple of sets!
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Post by: Chopstick
Very nice, now that look like a proper starter.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ok... New starter box it seems. This will be $100 more than the current one, so that will suck. Expanded Enforcers is a double edged sword. On one hand they look great. On the other hand thanks GW for holding them back and putting 2x5 of the same guys in the box rather than two different sprues. The terrain looks fine. I'd have to see what it's capable of, and right now I fear the only thing it'll be capable of is being really expensive and not being able to cover your average Necromunda table. And, much to my personal surprise given how much I've liked all the miniatures so far that have come out for Newcromunda*, I really don't like the cultists. They're... awful. *"But HMCDX, I thought you hated the Delaque minis!" No I think they're very nice minis, I just don't think they look anything like Delaques.
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Post by: Thargrim
Great looking set but yeah I think the volume of this type of terrain will seriously bloat the cost. I could see this being more than the warcry starter and that was already almost too much for me.
The cultists surprise me, they look more fantasy esque than I expected. I had in mind a lot more flayed skin, body parts and trophies taken from enemies etc. The helmets are odd cause they don't look fashioned by other things but almost look crafted from scratch to look demonic. They also look almost entirely melee focused, unlike the goliaths which have some options.
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Post by: Sabotage!
This looks like something I'll definitely want to pick-up, assuming it is Warcry starter price or less. I'd gotten out of Necromunda because my buddies weren't very interested in playing the gangs and thus didn't want to give it a go, but I think something like this would be more interesting to them.
I agree with the above points, I really hope GW doesn't think this is acceptable as a 200$ USD product.
Also I sincerely hope we get a full rulebook in it, not some monstrosity that has no campaign rules.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Forgive the YouTube lines. Best I could do. Just trying to get the best shots of the new terrain. EDIT: And on second look I don't dislike the cultists. I intently dislike the skull-masks half of them are wearing. Get a decent head-swap, and I think we're golden. EDIT 2: And now I cannot unsee the backwards shells in the ram. The way they've painted it they look like shotgun shells with the brass around the wrong way.
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Post by: Sabotage!
Hahaha, nice catch on the shotgun shells. I think that enforcer is in for some serious trouble.
I think the Cultists look pretty cool personally. I do think the ones with Vent/Visor style helmets look much better than the skulls though.
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Post by: Chopstick
Corspe Grinder cultist kit look like some next level monobuilt kit. They have 2 axes or a flail saw, and auto pistol for cultist, that's it?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ok, so, over thinking this as much as I can, there are 15 cultists. That means three sprues of 5. On each sprue there are two... let's call them Juves for lack of a better description, and 3 gangers. This gives us a massive amount of duplication, given that there are exactly 3 poses for each of the Gangers. If you look at this picture you can see that: The Juves have two poses and exactly 4 weapon options (a pistol in either hand, one hand with a sword, and opposite hand with a chainaxe). Great variety, especially with the way that the left-hand pistol is raised up in the same pose three times. There appears to be some variations on chests with the gangers, as (from the left) second mini/top row and fourth mini/bottom row have the same chest, but different legs. Unfortunately the chest appears to dictate the weapons, as they are both holding the same axe arm outstretched in their right hand. That's more of that modern GW variety there. What's most impressive is that in 15 miniatures they managed to create two that are almost identical (the two circular saw guys). Only difference between them are their legs. They even used the same damned head! Only appear to be 6 heads from what I can tell.
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Post by: Coenus Scaldingus
Corpse Guild appears to consist of 3 repeated sprues of 5 models each, based on the duplicate bodies.
Good to see new figures with some of the big missing options for the Enforcers. Though it would have been better to have these available or at least previewed on release...
Hoping it won't be long until the rumoured second sprues for the House Gangs appear (juves and more bits for champions - though I feel they can be made from the current sets, I just like having more options!).
Scenery looks great; variable and a nicely chaotic/messy. Dreading the pricetag.
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Post by: robbienw
The enforcer subjugators are superb.
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Post by: silverstu
Looks like the main set comes with a printed mat but the screenshots show modular floor sections .. Hope this stuff isn't too pricey as I like the terrain a lot
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
silverstu wrote:Looks like the main set comes with a printed mat but the screenshots show modular floor sections...
Oh sweet. So we're getting short-changed on the terrain in the box box.
Awesome. That'll totally be worth it's AUD$300+ price tag.
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Post by: WholeHazelNuts
I like some of the heads on the chaos dudes, but some not so much.
Might be a case of using these:
https://puppetswar.eu/models-and-bits-47/all-bits/heads/hooded-iron-mutants-heads.html
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Post by: Barksdale
Damn it. I thought November would be a light month for job hobby purchases. Can't pass this up though.
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Post by: balmong7
I'm already bought into necromunda, so I will for sure be buying this.
Especially if the Sisters box prices me out.
On the plus side, I don't think I have to worry about this Necromunda starter selling out.
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Post by: Chopstick
balmong7 wrote:
On the plus side, I don't think I have to worry about this Necromunda starter selling out.
In my experience box with big terrain like this always selling out within 6 months.
Unless of course, they charge 200US$ for this.
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Post by: Fayric
Sorry to be all negative here.
As far as my personal opinion go, the cultists would have been great as a cheap not-marine unit for world eaters, but I dont get any kind of Necromunda vibes from them.
They look to big, and lack the utilitarian and more realistic gear represented in the necromunda esthetic. These guys look like they have their own factory for a custom produced "evil" collection.
Furthermore, whats with the bloated gangs? 26 models -thats one more model than the first Psychic Awkening box -and that box was claimed to be 2 mighty armies
To me this bloat in style and numbers just set of lots of warning bells.
But to be honest, I have not even played newcromunda yet, even if I got the new cawdor gang.
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Post by: Chopstick
Fayric wrote:
Furthermore, whats with the bloated gangs? 26 models -thats one more model than the first Psychic Awkening box -and that box was claimed to be 2 mighty armies
Unlike Killteam or Warcry, most scenario only allow a handful number of models (less than 10) into battle, and in the one that everyone can fight, there're no upper limit, but having too many people in the gang dillute your pool (for when (many) scenario use random selection crew) while also inflate your gang rating, it's never a good thing.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I don't hate any of it but the cultists really need more sensible heads. Why horns?
Also the walls look a bit underdetailed.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
All the better for posters and graffiti
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Post by: Chopstick
lord_blackfang wrote:I don't hate any of it but the cultists really need more sensible heads. Why horns? Also the walls look a bit underdetailed. Because otherwise they look just like Goliath knock off.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Also doesn't look like the walls lock down to the tiles in any way, they just slide around or wobble on any raised detail.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Because the tiles are actually just a board in the box. Looks like the plastic floor is what happens when you have unlimited budget (ie. GW terrain displays). I'd be surprised if there were actual 1x1 plastic tiles with this release. And I just noticed... the Enforcers have 11 models. So the new sprue has 1 new guy on it, and then all the missing weapons that should have been in the damned Enforcer box to begin with. That box had the hide to charge us $5 extra for some fething transfers, yet this sprue which has all the other weapons was just not there.
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Post by: Siygess
H.B.M.C. wrote:Because the tiles are actually just a board in the box. Looks like the plastic floor is what happens when you have unlimited budget (ie. GW terrain displays). I'd be surprised if there were actual 1x1 plastic tiles with this release.
And I just noticed... the Enforcers have 11 models. So the new sprue has 1 new guy on it, and then all the missing weapons that should have been in the damned Enforcer box to begin with. That box had the hide to charge us $5 extra for some fething transfers, yet this sprue which has all the other weapons was just not there.
Yeah, I already have one box of Enforcers and was just about to buy a second for the inevitable Forge World upgrade set that would hopefully include shields.. and now this. I can't see them updating the existing Enforcer gang box or selling this one separately so.. er... nerts.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Chopstick wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:I don't hate any of it but the cultists really need more sensible heads. Why horns?
Also the walls look a bit underdetailed.
Because otherwise they look just like Goliath knock off.
I mean, some of them literally are - check the butt-shots from HBMC's post, one of them looks like they just took a Goliath CAD file and slapped some extra gubbinz on top. Which kinda makes sense I suppose, but feels extra lazy given the rest of the gang is just the same sprue x3 and they put such minimal effort into pose variety on that one, single sprue.
I'm certainly glad I only bought one box of Enforcers when they came out, I feel for anyone who bought two or three thinking they'd have to convert or get resin upgrades for the missing gear. On the basis of them, I certainly wouldn't be buying very many of the Corpsegrinder models even if I did find them appealing, because hey who knows, maybe in a few months they'll "patch" the kit with more poses and options.
The ZM walls look great at first glance - they fixed the arches, huzzah! - but the real questions are still A; the price, especially when you have to buy the floors separately, and B; have they tweaked the dimensions to make them compatible with the modern terrain kits.
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Post by: phillv85
I loved the look of this new set, but my god am I pissed off that the enforcers box I got was only half a box. I thought it felt a bit lightweight, so much so I abandoned building the models after 5 of them.
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Post by: silverstu
H.B.M.C. wrote: silverstu wrote:Looks like the main set comes with a printed mat but the screenshots show modular floor sections...
Oh sweet. So we're getting short-changed on the terrain in the box box.
Awesome. That'll totally be worth it's AUD$300+ price tag.
Think of it this way- if they had included plastic floor sections as well you would have had to sell both kidneys to buy it, this way they are being kind and letting you keep one..
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Siygess wrote:... was just about to buy a second for the inevitable Forge World upgrade set that would hopefully include shields...
Yodhrin wrote:... I feel for anyone who bought two or three thinking they'd have to convert or get resin upgrades for the missing gear...
Hi. Name's HBMC. Nice to meet'cha. Yeah. I bought two boxes... *sigh* Believe me, I am beyond thrilled that they are plastic. That is an absolute God-send. But... they could'a just put that sprue in the box! Yodhrin wrote:The ZM walls look great at first glance - they fixed the arches, huzzah! - but the real questions are still A; the price, especially when you have to buy the floors separately, and B; have they tweaked the dimensions to make them compatible with the modern terrain kits.
Actually that's a good point: What are the dimensions of these? Specifically, the height. Sector Mechanicus stuff is generally 5" tall, although a few pieces (the dome, the kiln) are 2.5" tall, allowing you to do double to get the regular height. Then there are the Plasma Regulators which are between 2.5" and 5" and are fething annoying for that reason. Are these 2.5" tall, stacking to 5"? If so, then those stairs are amazing. If they're some other dimensions, then that's a problem.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I asked that guy if he had any sprue pics. Nuthin' so far.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I wonder if 11 enforcers = 1 leader that won't get a release when the other 10 get a separate box (has necromunda had any clam pack characters yet?)
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Post by: Glumy
Too many beautiful miniatures being released recently. Cant keep up with this.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Wait, wait, wait. I should know this given all I've done with the Sector Mechanicus stuff, so let's take another look: That double-stacked tower towards the dead centre of the picture. There's a plasma conduit pipe running vertically along-side it. Assuming it's the same pipe from the conduit kit, then that's one standard 5" level of Sector Mechanicus terrain. That would imply, assuming that these are not modified pipes, that the individual wall sections are half-height (ie. 2.5"), and therefore will fit with Sector Mechanicus. If the illustrious Ray Dranfield designed these, I'd imagine it was done on purpose. OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I wonder if 11 enforcers = 1 leader that won't get a release when the other 10 get a separate box (has necromunda had any clam pack characters yet?)
Kinda. Kal & Stubbs are plastic... wait they're in a box because boxed = higher price. And this guy isn't a clampack character. He's on a sprue with the shields and missing Enforcer weapons.
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Post by: Kanluwen
According to Dranfield, Owen Patten did the Zone Mortalis scenery.
Regarding the sprue...is it possible that it gets released on its own, ala the Marine upgrade frames?
I'm really liking that setup though. Might be time to buy in on Necromunda.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I, too, have 2 current boxes of Enforcers...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
H.B.M.C. wrote: OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I wonder if 11 enforcers = 1 leader that won't get a release when the other 10 get a separate box (has necromunda had any clam pack characters yet?)
Kinda. Kal & Stubbs are plastic... wait they're in a box because boxed = higher price. And this guy isn't a clampack character. He's on a sprue with the shields and missing Enforcer weapons. well I guess that's a minor plus at least, although as you say having the stuff in the original box would have been better
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Post by: xKillGorex
Have held off from getting in to necro, but damn I’m in on this for sure.
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Sabotage! wrote:Hahaha, nice catch on the shotgun shells. I think that enforcer is in for some serious trouble.
I think the Cultists look pretty cool personally. I do think the ones with Vent/Visor style helmets look much better than the skulls though.
He's playing safe. Those are Nerf darts.
Try unseeing that
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Post by: Kanluwen
I might be wrong, but are there rules for breaching rounds in Necromunda?
Because those have some weirdness to their design if I remember correctly.
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Kanluwen wrote:I might be wrong, but are there rules for breaching rounds in Necromunda?
Because those have some weirdness to their design if I remember correctly.
There is a whole new rule book so anything is possible but they are either painted strangely or some specialists ammo.
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Post by: streetsamurai
I think this is the first gang i dont like, Too stiff, too monopose, too similar to each other, looks like bad goliath convertions. Might change my mind with better pic, but a miss for me so far.
As for the enforcers 2nd sprues, all gangs should have one, but splitting there release is scummy as hell
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I wonder if 11 enforcers = 1 leader that won't get a release when the other 10 get a separate box (has necromunda had any clam pack characters yet?)
I'd actually guess looking at the pictures that it is a sprue of 3 models duplicated twice, combined with the original sprue of 5.
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Post by: feugan
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, so, over thinking this as much as I can, there are 15 cultists. That means three sprues of 5.
On each sprue there are two... let's call them Juves for lack of a better description, and 3 gangers. This gives us a massive amount of duplication, given that there are exactly 3 poses for each of the Gangers.
Also there are three each of the 2 different Enforcer Subjugatir bodies, suggesting this is mixed sprue of 2 Enforcers, 3 Corpsegrinder gangers and 2 Corpsegrinder juves. Great for this box set with a single older 5 man Enforcer sprue and the new scenery...but limits the chances of seeing those riot shields outside the big box.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
MajorWesJanson wrote:I'd actually guess looking at the pictures that it is a sprue of 3 models duplicated twice, combined with the original sprue of 5.
That's possible as well. Don't know why they'd make a sprue of 3 guys... but maybe them shields is real real big!
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Post by: Geifer
Khorne cultists? Yawn. Necromunda is the perfect setting to give a less warlike god the spotlight, like Slaanesh. But no, let's have more dumb brutes instead.
Nice to see a shield option for the enforcers. Not so nice if feugan is right and they're exclusive to this box.
Really nice terrain, too.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Loving all these minis. Really nice looking terrain as well.
The cultists are suitably Khornate and I guess the skulls with all the horns etc come from them being the hive's meat butchers, so not only human corpse starch but also an endless supply of various xenos beasts being shipped in for hungry hive workers.
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Post by: plessiez
I find that chaos gang really disappointing. 15 models that all look kind of the same and all in old school poses (and not in a good way).
The cultists of the abyss from Blackstone Fortress are so much better!
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Fingers crossed the Juve looking cultist MoFos are a sign other Gangs will be getting Juves soon.
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Post by: Marshal Loss
Plastic ZM? Awesome. And these models are going to make amazing cultists for my Word Bearers. Count me in.
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Post by: warl0rdb0b
I'd guess the Subjugator sprue will be released as the enforcers Juve/Champion upgrade frame, and these will be small 3 model boxes with a few options for the relevant ganger types.
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Post by: godswildcard
I like the Enforcers, and I REALLY like the ZM terrain. Is it safe to assume that the book in the box is going to be the newest and most-up-to-date, go-to Rulebook in all the land?
...until next year, at least?
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Post by: Baxx
New rulebook? It's gonna be impossible for GW not to release yet another version/edition (to HBMC: whatever you wanna call it) of this game. Keep in mind they released 8 books so far (5 of which are only good for recycling), all of them contradicts previous books or even internal contradictions in the same book. Is this new book not going to do that? Or is this the start of N19? It's going to be... "interesting", considering the authors never play test nor proof read. Just compare with the latest summary book for Blood Bowl, Head Coach Handbook. Was supposed to have all teams collected in the same book. Super convenient! Except they changed a lof of profiles and skills, so if you look up something, chances are it's going to be incorrect. It's so bad, I heard rumours you could send it back to GW and have it refunded.
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Post by: Erren
So the YouTube video has the models standing on a 3D surface, not a flat mat. My question is whether we’re eventually getting a tile to match this stuff up to, or if GW just took like 5 of the sprues that make the second level flooring and made it look like that.
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Post by: The Phazer
As much as I think I like the Corpse Grinders more than a lot of people here, it is a bit of a shame that there aren't any female models in them. Necromunda was getting better there.
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Post by: judgedoug
From what I can see, that is a 24" x 24" playing surface?
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Post by: zedmeister
So full on brand new box set coming up. Juicy!
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Post by: zamerion
i just need a date
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Post by: Cardinal Xaphan
Apologies if this has been explained elsewhere, but lore-wise.what exactly are Corpse Guild has gw explained?
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Post by: BrookM
Glad I waited with picking up Enforcers, as I had a feeling an upgrade pack with shields would happen sooner or later. Just glad it's not a FW upgrade pack, but instead a proper plastic kit.
edit.
And the extra armour makes the breachers(?) look a whole lot better than the first wave of Enforcers IMHO.
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Post by: godardc
Yeah I agree with HMBC, the cultist don't fit the aesthetic of Necromunda to me. They look VERY MUCH 40k and are a step back in the wrong direction for me. They do look like a Chaos army militia but absolutely not like an angry worker or inhabitant of the hive world. Idk...
But the set is a good news !
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Post by: Sqorgar
The Phazer wrote:As much as I think I like the Corpse Grinders more than a lot of people here, it is a bit of a shame that there aren't any female models in them. Necromunda was getting better there.
Honestly, given that the game is primarily about customization, I'd rather get a full all-female box rather than a single female model that can't use very much of the customization options, like heads or weapons/arms, or put in a singular pose than can't be easily converted into a different one. Compare what you can do with the Eschers to the lone Van Saar lady. Automatically Appended Next Post: godardc wrote:...the cultist don't fit the aesthetic of Necromunda to me. They look VERY MUCH 40k...
But Necromunda IS 40k, just at a lower power rank. You can even have GSC and chaos cultists gangs.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Cardinal Xaphan wrote:Apologies if this has been explained elsewhere, but lore-wise.what exactly are Corpse Guild has gw explained?
The Corpse Guild are one of the main Guilder merchant factions, their name was pretty self explanatory until they also decided to do...
The Corpsegrinder Cult, which are apparently a Khornate or Khorne-adjacent Chaos cult.
They're not related as far as we know.
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Post by: Boss Salvage
Put me in the 'buying this box for the chaos bois + terrain then selling the police bois + rules' camp
Like for real. If I can't find someone to split with local I'll post up hereabouts. My CGC is headed to Kill Team as GSC
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Post by: ImAGeek
I think everything looks great, and I think this will end up on my Christmas list.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
Erren wrote:So the YouTube video has the models standing on a 3D surface, not a flat mat. My question is whether we’re eventually getting a tile to match this stuff up to, or if GW just took like 5 of the sprues that make the second level flooring and made it look like that.
It would fit with the rumor of the zone mortals floor on that shipping list.
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Post by: Sqorgar
Have you considered Tinder?
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Post by: Chopstick
Sqorgar wrote:Honestly, given that the game is primarily about customization, I'd rather get a full all-female box rather than a single female model that can't use very much of the customization options, like heads or weapons/arms, or put in a singular pose than can't be easily converted into a different one. Compare what you can do with the Eschers to the lone Van Saar lady. A single female would be fine for both of these gang since they lack weapons choice in the first place. GL is the only (and best) basic weapon subjucator can take, and it wouldn't take much sprue space either if they have the same arm, just different hands (for autopistol, and a shock baton), extra female hands certainly better than the gazillion holster pistols, grenade and pouch bits.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I like the cultists, just wish they had access to heavier weapons from the get go. Obviously they're supposed to be melee focused but even with their numbers I'm afraid the Enforcers are going to make quick work of them in game.
This release also pretty much guarantees some 3rd party manufacturers are going to ramp up making chaos cultist types for those unhappy with the actual GW offerings.
My money is on seeing Raging Heroes work something up based on some of their current designs.
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Post by: Chopstick
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I like the cultists, just wish they had access to heavier weapons from the get go. Obviously they're supposed to be melee focused but even with their numbers I'm afraid the Enforcers are going to make quick work of them in game.
Enforcer had advantage but quick work? No. They're BS4+ for everyone.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Cultists could be very, very nasty in Zone Mortalis, where range rarely matters much.
Also, they’ve not Power Saw Flails, and that makes me moist in my special places.
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Post by: Chopstick
These aren't exactly the like the old FW ZM since you can stand atop a platform chucking grenade down below. Also under the classic ZM a guy chucking grenade down the hallway (every kind of grenade, not just the damage one) is equally dreadful. Only problem is the door might be close, just have some guy open it beforehand. And of course, Inflitrate + demo charge strat just get 300% more scary in these corridor.
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Post by: ch33ky.business
Grindr might also be an option.
This looks great for Kill Team. Hoping they have terrain packs available separately as well.
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Post by: Ian Sturrock
I like the cultists. They aren't oppressed workers, they're sewer cannibals. I will be giving mine slimy, pasty white skin, accordingly.
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Post by: Dread Master
This looks awesome! Probably going to weep at the price but I’m all in on Necromunda. Not bothered at all at zero females in the box. Not sure why it’s necessary for every release to have females. Kind of a weird fixation, given fighting peeps are generally male for reasons that should be obvious. That hot potato aside, really looking forward to the November preorder.
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Post by: NoggintheNog
All looks good.
Going to be expensive though with all that plastic.
£150 box? I would be surprised it its less.
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Post by: Voss
Like the gangs, like the terrain. Not completely sure its worth it, but the combination might have me picking it up.
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Post by: Fayric
Sqorgar wrote:
godardc wrote:...the cultist don't fit the aesthetic of Necromunda to me. They look VERY MUCH 40k...
But Necromunda IS 40k, just at a lower power rank. You can even have GSC and chaos cultists gangs.
No, you are thinking about kill team. Necromunda is not 40k in small scale. 40k is equiliant of what fantasy genres would call "High Fantasy" while Necromunda is human based low and dirty scavenger pigfarming.
I remember when old Necromunda got an expansion, it was basicly "ok, so now the gangs has even worse equipment, and they starve if they dont win their fights; if they go to the tradingpost they get robbed, oh and they might become zombies".
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Post by: godardc
Sqorgar wrote: The Phazer wrote:As much as I think I like the Corpse Grinders more than a lot of people here, it is a bit of a shame that there aren't any female models in them. Necromunda was getting better there.
Honestly, given that the game is primarily about customization, I'd rather get a full all-female box rather than a single female model that can't use very much of the customization options, like heads or weapons/arms, or put in a singular pose than can't be easily converted into a different one. Compare what you can do with the Eschers to the lone Van Saar lady.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
godardc wrote:...the cultist don't fit the aesthetic of Necromunda to me. They look VERY MUCH 40k...
But Necromunda IS 40k, just at a lower power rank. You can even have GSC and chaos cultists gangs.
I disagree: Necromunda has / used to have quite a different tone to my mind, a bit closer to Infinity. But it's nothing to be mad about, I'm just a bit surprised / disappointed by ONE warband so far so it's cool
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Post by: Knockagh
Oh my. Modular zone mortalis terrain. I’ve got a massive smile! Well done GW cannot wait for this to be released separately. Hopefully we get some plastic tiles for it as well.
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Post by: Cryptek of Awesome
godardc wrote: Sqorgar wrote: The Phazer wrote:As much as I think I like the Corpse Grinders more than a lot of people here, it is a bit of a shame that there aren't any female models in them. Necromunda was getting better there.
Honestly, given that the game is primarily about customization, I'd rather get a full all-female box rather than a single female model that can't use very much of the customization options, like heads or weapons/arms, or put in a singular pose than can't be easily converted into a different one. Compare what you can do with the Eschers to the lone Van Saar lady.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
godardc wrote:...the cultist don't fit the aesthetic of Necromunda to me. They look VERY MUCH 40k...
But Necromunda IS 40k, just at a lower power rank. You can even have GSC and chaos cultists gangs.
I disagree: Necromunda has / used to have quite a different tone to my mind, a bit closer to Infinity. But it's nothing to be mad about, I'm just a bit surprised / disappointed by ONE warband so far so it's cool
I agree but you can think about it like this - core Necromunda are the normal gangs that can all be drinking at a bar together one minute and then having a shoot out the next minute.
These guys are like the outcast and the outlanders living a hidden and hunted existence in the shadows beneath "civilization". Hopefully they will get thematic rules like the original outlanders.
I will feel differently if it turns out they act like and interact with people like every other gang.
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Post by: Albertorius
Dread Master wrote:This looks awesome! Probably going to weep at the price but I’m all in on Necromunda. Not bothered at all at zero females in the box. Not sure why it’s necessary for every release to have females. Kind of a weird fixation, given fighting peeps are generally male for reasons that should be obvious. That hot potato aside, really looking forward to the November preorder.
Take your pick: Half of the human race, liking to be represented, liking women, just because... I mean, it's not like there's only one reason.
As to the other, maybe read a bit? Might as well start with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Have_Always_Fought
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Post by: BrookM
People, not the place for this sort of discussion..
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Post by: Sabotage!
You know, this will probably be the same price as the Warcry boxed set. This has about the same number of miniatures (I think 29 for Warcry, 26 for this), about the same amount of terrain, and rules. If that's the case I will definitely pick this up.
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Post by: drbored
I was waiting for a gang to really catch my interest, and those Corpsgrinder guys finally did it. I'll be getting this box. Plus the terrain will be great in Kill Team as well, with obvious places to stick high platforms and some fantastic line of sight blocking terrain.
If Arena had terrain like this, it would have sold like hotcakes.
I just hope that when I play, I don't run into people that are like the major complainers here that feel like my Corpsegrinder cultists aren't "in the feel of the game" and make me feel ostracized just for liking something that they don't
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Nice terrain. I don't know if I need the gangs, but... maybe I do.
Fayric wrote:I remember when old Necromunda got an expansion, it was basicly "ok, so now the gangs has even worse equipment, and they starve if they dont win their fights; if they go to the tradingpost they get robbed, oh and they might become zombies".
It had also rules for Eldar Scouts, Orks, Chaos Space Marines and Daemons...
drbored wrote:I just hope that when I play, I don't run into people that are like the major complainers here that feel like my Corpsegrinder cultists aren't "in the feel of the game" and make me feel ostracized just for liking something that they don't
*Go to Ebay (or somewhere else)
*Buy a Cawdor model
*Buy a Van Saar model
*paint both fittingly
*show them your opponent
Problem should be solved.
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Post by: Grot 6
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I like the cultists, just wish they had access to heavier weapons from the get go. Obviously they're supposed to be melee focused but even with their numbers I'm afraid the Enforcers are going to make quick work of them in game.
This release also pretty much guarantees some 3rd party manufacturers are going to ramp up making chaos cultist types for those unhappy with the actual GW offerings.
My money is on seeing Raging Heroes work something up based on some of their current designs.
I really dig the Ghosts of Mars feel for these guys...
They just dropped weapons welding cultists from the Blackstone fortress game. Just go ahead and budget in a couple of boxes...
Secondly, you can go on and drop a few weapons off of your extra sprues that will fit on the figures. (Unless of course they stay a melee army)
If I were to get these, and make a gang- I would capture enemies, take the sprues of the old weapons not used, and paint them up representing the captured gear.
Than boxed set is damn impressive. The price- Not so much.
PSST- Use the AOS Khorn guys, and old marauder boxed figures.... it will set you back a little less than that hefty price tag. Marauders and 30K and 40K weapons work out pretty well. I've used las guns, Goliath pistols, and hand to hand weapons with little fuss.
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Post by: Da Butcha
Everything looks good but I don't understand the walls.
In Zone Mortalis, the walls were floor to ceiling. There's no scrambling over them or walking on them. Sure, they had some detailing on the top, but the idea was that you were in space-ship/star-fort/space-hulk corridors.
These have the same general structure, but they are included in with other terrain that occupies more than one level. Does Necromunda have a lot of sturdy, barricade-like walls that go up 10' and stop? What are these walls for?
I like 3d Necromunda, with all the scrambling about that entails. I like Zone Mortalis/Underhive Necromunda, with the maze-like feel and restricted lines of sight and fire. But I don't see how the bulkhead walls and the elevated gantries work together. Is it the Necromunda equivalent of a corn maze?
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Post by: privateer4hire
Sabotage! wrote:You know, this will probably be the same price as the Warcry boxed set. This has about the same number of miniatures (I think 29 for Warcry, 26 for this), about the same amount of terrain, and rules. If that's the case I will definitely pick this up.
Or they could try the new Blood of the Phoenix price of over $200 USD.
Necromunda 18 was big old jam over that I was stupid enough to buy because the local group all bought in (and nobody would touch N17 even though a few of us bought it).
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Post by: Chopstick
privateer4hire wrote: Sabotage! wrote:You know, this will probably be the same price as the Warcry boxed set. This has about the same number of miniatures (I think 29 for Warcry, 26 for this), about the same amount of terrain, and rules. If that's the case I will definitely pick this up.
Or they could try the new Blood of the Phoenix price of over $200 USD.
Necromunda 18 was big old jam over that I was stupid enough to buy because the local group all bought in (and nobody would touch N17 even though a few of us bought it).
Stupid? Nah? Early supporter so this game can last till this day? yes
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Post by: Sqorgar
They could - and they might - but I don't think they will break the $200 threshold. My reasoning:
- Starter sets are priced cheaper to get people in and buying product. Necromunda hasn't exactly set the world on fire. It's been successful enough, but not to the point where they can turn away potential new players with a high price tag. How else will they sell 8 ForgeWorld heads for $25? There's also new gang cards, card sleeves, dice, books, and whatever to make up the difference.
- November is also when Sisters of Battle (which I'm sure will be over $300), Ossiarchs, and Xmas bundles come out - all expensive stuff, and I think people will prioritize the game systems they already play ( 40k/ AoS) over jumping into Necromunda. GW is cannibalizing their own sales at this point, and having $7,000 worth of product released in one month means people are probably going to be making some choices that aren't Necromunda. I think the people only interested in the box for the terrain will probably wait for the terrain to be released separately.
- They've announced it ahead of time. This means there is an opportunity for the hype to die down just long enough for people to remember that they've got Black Friday coming up and have to buy Christmas presents for everybody they know. GW isn't just competing with themselves, they are also competing with every online sale and every family member's Xmas list.
- The $200 threshold is a strong psychological limit that I don't think even GW is immune to. The fact that the next two army box after Phoenix wasn't also $230 says to me that they reconsidered - though $195 is still an exploitative price that's too fething high for what is on offer.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Premise 1: It's a starter set with 2 forces and a lot of terrain.
Premise 2: GW raises prices with each new release.
Premise 3: The Warcry starter set costs AUD$280.
Conclusion: The new Necromunda starter set will cost more than AUD$300.
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Post by: privateer4hire
You could very well be right. If it's less than $200 I'm betting it's cardstock flooring, then.
I think $200 plus is going to be the GW norm for some of the newer stuff. There was hardly a blip about it. People just say "plastic aspect warriors! Ouch that's pricey. Heh, heh. Oh well, whaddya gonna do?" and pull out their wallets.
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Post by: zamerion
there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
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Post by: tneva82
Sqorgar wrote:
- November is also when Sisters of Battle (which I'm sure will be over $300),
nope. that price already got leaked out and not even close to that. Dark imperium level
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Post by: Chopstick
zamerion wrote:there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
Sound about right, with 275$ I'll use 84 to buy the 2 gangs, and save the rest for something else.
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Post by: Messiah
The preview exibit in Essen:
2
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Post by: Yodhrin
Da Butcha wrote:Everything looks good but I don't understand the walls.
In Zone Mortalis, the walls were floor to ceiling. There's no scrambling over them or walking on them. Sure, they had some detailing on the top, but the idea was that you were in space-ship/star-fort/space-hulk corridors.
These have the same general structure, but they are included in with other terrain that occupies more than one level. Does Necromunda have a lot of sturdy, barricade-like walls that go up 10' and stop? What are these walls for?
I like 3d Necromunda, with all the scrambling about that entails. I like Zone Mortalis/Underhive Necromunda, with the maze-like feel and restricted lines of sight and fire. But I don't see how the bulkhead walls and the elevated gantries work together. Is it the Necromunda equivalent of a corn maze?
They're like pretty much all Imperial structures - modular and prefab. When they get stacked up the implication is that there is a second level and the rest of it just remains invisible like the ceilings usually are, or else instead of the usual ceiling what you can't see is a sloping roof for a multi-level atrium etc.
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Post by: silverstu
zamerion wrote:there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
US dollars? So about £160 in sterling.. hmmm tricky - I love the terrain but not fussed on the gangs/game plus the possible Nid Christmas box...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Closest I can find to $275 on the US site is the Temple Nest Daughters of Khaine "bundle". That's AUD$411. If this new box is around that price... G-zuhs... Oh, and from other pictures, and this'll probably interest Baxx: (Apologies if the pic didn't work) If I had to guess, this new box contains a basic set of rules and the basic rules to create an Enforcer/Choppy Dude gang, and that's about it, whereas this book just adds onto the existing rules with the full campaign rules for these new guys + a bunch of other odds and ends (likely the new Zone Mortalis rules). [EDIT]: Wait, here's a description: “The Book of Ruin brings the full ferocity of the cults of Necromunda to bear against the planet’s beleaguered defenders. Form a Genestealer Cults, Helot Chaos Cults or Corpse Grinder Cult gang, or even corrupt your existing house gang!” I'd really hope that the new terrain has rules in there, but it seems that we're getting a published Genestealer Cult list. Maybe they'll fix the Champions so they don't suck balls.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Uploading the pic, since it didn't work for me.
1
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The price will be immense.
And now I'm hearing rumblings that the Book of Ruin has a new campaign system, which is just what Necromunda needs given it already has 3 campaign systems.
If we get a new campaign but don't get fixed GSC Champs and rules for the new terrain, GW might as well give up on Necromunda before the community changes its name from N17/18/19 to N76.
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Post by: Elbows
Am I the only one seeing the Donnie Darko rabbit in that cover?
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Post by: Coenus Scaldingus
Elbows wrote:Am I the only one seeing the Donnie Darko rabbit in that cover?
Didn't before. Sure do now.
All around me unfamiliar faces,
Blood-stained places
Blood-stained faceeees
Grim and weary from their daily chases
"Finding" corpses
Grinding corpseeees
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Post by: Sqorgar
zamerion wrote:there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
$275 USD? A week before Black Friday? That's grotesque.
I've always been a LEGO fan. Me and tiny plastic guys have a long history, and for probably more than 35 years, I bought hundreds and hundreds of LEGO sets. About 5 or 6 years ago, I went to LEGO Land. Had a wonderful time, and hyped up by my experience, I ended up buy a $400 death star set and two $150 modulars. $700 on three LEGO sets. And that sort of broke me. I realized that if I could justify buying a $400 LEGO set, then I'd find some way to justify a $500 set, or a $600 set. And the most recent modular released was the Town Hall set at $300. And I was like, I can't keep doing this. I can't commit to multiple releases a year at that sort of cost. Once, on a special occasion maybe, I could justify it - but do you know how easy it is to consider every occasion special?
So, I gave up LEGO. Completely. I realized that there was no half measures in this. As a LEGO addict, either I spent too much on LEGO or I spent nothing, and it had to be nothing. I haven't bought a LEGO set since. I will not buy another LEGO set ever again. Done with fish.
And I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do that with Games Workshop. I've been trying to make all sorts of bargains in my head like, "I'll just stick to Warcry and Necromunda", "I won't buy anything without waiting 2 weeks first", "I won't buy any more ravaged lands or expensive terrain packs", and so on. And seeing this pack might be $275, my instant thought was "I have enough terrain. I'll skip this bundle and just get the book and figures individually". And it kind of pisses me off that my first thought was "how can I make this work?" and not "hell no!".
I can already tell that the bargaining won't stop. It'll just keep going. I'll just get this one because it is a special occasion. I'll just pay this much this one time and never again. At least this set won't sit in a box for a year, unlike Looncurse and last year's Xmas bundles. I'll make up the difference by not getting the Sisters of Battle. And so on. The bargaining just makes me feel better about my purchases - it doesn't actually do anything to curb them. There's always some justification I'll come up with, some way to convince myself that this time is different.
So, I think that maybe it is time that I realize that, like with LEGO, I am an addict. There are no half measures with addiction. You can't just be an addict some of the time. And giving in every once in a while isn't moderation, it's a relapse. With stuff like free to play games and microtransactions, you can recognize that you are in a toxic situation because your addiction doesn't bring you joy. It's harder to tell when your addiction does bring you joy, but just asks increasingly too much of you. I can tell already that if I end up paying $275 for this bundle or anything else, it will be the last thing I ever buy from GW.
I realize that being a disgruntled ex-Games Workshop player is almost a right of passage in this hobby, and GW has plenty more suckers who will pay $275 for a box, so nobody really cares (least of all, GW). But they say nobody is harder on smokers than ex-smokers. I'm inches away from being the vegan picketing the slaughterhouse here, and I just want you guys to know that I don't want to do it - I have to.
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Post by: Kanluwen
From what's being said now, it looks like the prices are from Mexico or Bolivia--Zamerion commented that there's a significant difference in price.
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Post by: Chikout
zamerion wrote:there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
Well November the 15th is a Friday so that's more than a little unlikely.
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Post by: ekwatts
So in conclusion, as of right now:
WE'RE REALLY NOT SURE HOW MUCH IT COSTS.
That being said, boooo GW etc, etc.
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
The terrain honestly looks excellent based on those images in the cabinet. I've never been this excited about terrain before.
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Post by: Obispudkenobi
ekwatts wrote:So in conclusion, as of right now:
WE'RE REALLY NOT SURE HOW MUCH IT COSTS.
That being said, boooo GW etc, etc.
GW could sell it for a fiver and some in the "community" would find something to moan about, the plastic is too grey or not grey enough, or the art work is too cartooney to take seriously blah blah etc
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Post by: Baxx
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh, and from other pictures, and this'll probably interest Baxx:
Oh yes! Chaos version 4, Genestealer Cult version 3. And a brand new cult, the Corpse Grinder Cult (version 1). Hopefully Chaos and Genestealer are final this time, so we can avoid getting 3-4 versions every 1-2 years. The general impression is, they have some new ideas and mix it with already existing rules (from White Dwarf & pdfs) to get a full book's worth of content. As usual, expect silly mistakes, broken rules and contradictions. These sort of things have never been playt ested nor proof read. There will be a new campaign where resources (territories, rackets or whatever they end up calling it) can become ruined, giving less bonuses/income. These territories will also be released as new cards (which pressumably will be sold out on day 1 of pre-order?). And the new cult will surely have additional tactics cards too (also sold out on day 1?). The 359 cards we got already was never enough!
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Post by: zamerion
Chikout wrote:zamerion wrote:there is a list of products circulating on whatsapp.
In theory, the pre-order will be on November 15, and the box will cost 275 dollars.
of course a lot of salt
Well November the 15th is a Friday so that's more than a little unlikely.
We must not be so concrete. Refers to that weekend.
But the date was only based on the weekend following the red gobbo.
I repeat that they are all rumors.
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Post by: Apple fox
Really like the enforcers, keen to see them on a table all done and snazzy painted.
But the corpsegrinder cult is a bit goofy. They look to uniform, and don’t like how they are so much close combat on big buff body’s.
Seen it before and done better.
But even in the setting with loads of gang violence and a kinda crappy life for a lot of people, why choose them. Seems like they do not ad much.
See a bunch of potential for all the gods, but this ain’t it.
If khorne, would have prefer lanky maybe even starving people, that have sorta lost to much to even be with others in the city. Rough bands who stick together with a rough religion of violence.
But I feel the other gods cults would have ad way more to the setting.
Plague, pushed out of home. Join us where we still love and appreciate you.
Cult of crazy librarians, and spy’s.
Prostitution lords and lady’s, pushing there power out, necromunda Vegas!
Buff khorne dudes with axes. And a surprisingly good forge for crazy dudes.
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Post by: jojo_monkey_boy
https://twitter.com/WargamingDave
This guy has a leaked pricing list that shows the new set as $290 (I would guess USD, based on the price of the accompanying book).
It's a bit of a steep price.
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Post by: zamerion
we need to know what country these prices are for.
South america is more expensive.
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Post by: tneva82
Seeing dices are 15 usd seems likely
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