GW's prices didn't climb that high by accident. It didn't happen because some greedy CEO twirled his mustache and scrawled "TRIPLE THE PRICE!" on a napkin before slapping his secretary, Linda, right on the arse and kicking the nearest puppy.
Corporate financials generally follows the pattern of:
1.) Strong sales? Raise Prices!
2.) Weak sales? Cut costs!
GW's no different. When sales are good, prices go up. When sales are bad, reduce new product, fire people and close storefronts.
GW's prices didn't climb that high by accident. It didn't happen because some greedy CEO twirled his mustache and scrawled "TRIPLE THE PRICE!" on a napkin before slapping his secretary, Linda, right on the arse and kicking the nearest puppy.
Corporate financials generally follows the pattern of:
1.) Strong sales? Raise Prices!
2.) Weak sales? Cut costs!
GW's no different. When sales are good, prices go up. When sales are bad, reduce new product, fire people and close storefronts.
Yes corporations do that, but not always. Companies concerned with market share, size of customer base, and volume of sales aren't as quick as GW to raise prices. Typically the corporations aren't manufacturer, distributor, and retailer, and a corporation has to be all three to get away with raising prices as aggressively as GW does.
In most instances if a manufacturers costs and price go up, distributors and retails will push back or absorb some of the rise because they want to meet certain sales volumes, and most of the time when strong sales lead to higher prices its more often on the retail side, sometimes on the distributor, and least often the manufacturer side. GW being all three allows for this sort of direct and immediate price rise without any reductions in prices. Its the uncertainties at each level, that are eliminated by this kind of corporate integration, that present consumers the opportunities for deals and reduced prices. Typically a product is considered "profitable" for a manufacturer when they can get 3 times the manufacturing cost of a product; based on their financial statements you can figure out where GW would hit that point. It's about 60% of their retail price, and that takes all the added costs of design and marketing everyone gives great latitude to. At the point when GW sells to retailer for between 20%-30% off retail, half of the money they get is profit. While GW see the hobbyist as the end consumer, when you look at where they make money and the percentages their main customers are retailers and GW is pegging their prices to that price to retailers and adding a retail margin on top to come up with its prices; its why their prices seem so inconsiderate to us. GW doesn't really have the middle man or major retailer going to them saying "we need something at this price point" or "we need entry level products priced so people who don't know anything about the franchise might buy it"
Adeptus Doritos wrote: GW's prices didn't climb that high by accident. It didn't happen because some greedy CEO twirled his mustache and scrawled "TRIPLE THE PRICE!" on a napkin before slapping his secretary, Linda, right on the arse and kicking the nearest puppy.
But that doesn't explain the regional differences.
For instance, the NZ price for the new Necro box is AUD$48 more expensive than the Australian cost. Why? We're two countries that are right next to one another. Why are they almost paying an extra $50 for the same thing as us? And that's before you factor in the massive difference between our price and the UK price.
The instructions for the ZM terrain is broken down into 2 different booklets, so likely going to be 2 terrain kits when sold separately.
Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls, probably a box of 1-2 door sprues, 2+ small wall sprues, 2+ long wall sprues, and 2+ column sprues. I'd guess a door, 2 of each wall, and 3 column sprues personally, giving an 8 sprue box.
Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs. Likely the smaller terrain kit, Probably going to be 2 stairs sprues and 2 platform sprues, I'd guess just those 4 in a box.
Assembling them is simple and fun, all the walls and columns you want to leave the top unglued as they flip over to lock in higher levels, or swap in platforms. And the floor tiles help the walls and colums sort of lock into place lightly. The floor is about the thickness of the catwalk tiles from SI or SM, but lacks connectors on the bottom, and unfortunately for my original plans, at 12" is slightly too small to use as a floor or roof since 5 building sections are 12.5" across instead.
GW's prices are high no matter where you go. A bit pricier outside of the UK, but trust me- if you lived in the UK, you'd still be able to say they're overpriced.
Now comes the part a lot of people are going to struggle with. I bet this might incite some rage.
But it's true.
GW's prices didn't climb that high by accident. It didn't happen because some greedy CEO twirled his mustache and scrawled "TRIPLE THE PRICE!" on a napkin before slapping his secretary, Linda, right on the arse and kicking the nearest puppy.
GW's prices shot up in a very short time, and they did that because people were willing to pay those prices for their toys.
This isn't food, water, booze, or anything else crucial to life. It's a bunch of plastic/resin war toys. It's a luxury item, like a pair of Jordans or a Harley-Davidson or crystal wine glasses. It's very nice, but it's a pricey version of something and there are more affordable options out there of this kind of luxury.
And people still paid absurd prices, because if I'm calculating correctly- the prices doubled in about 4-5 years and unless you're in a third world country ran by some dictator and there's a coup happening... inflation don't work that fast.
You can hate it all you like, and you can gripe about it all day long, all over the internet and even bellow it out at the top of your lungs into the local GW store. But at the end of the day, if you bought it- they won, because dead Presidents (or whatever the rest of your losers put on your money) are louder than you will ever be.
And I'm far from free of guilt, I've paid it. And I admit it. There's a limit for me, I'm certain. And some things are at that limit. So don't think I'm pointing at everyone else, I'll fully admit to being 'part of the problem' to some degree.
See, this is the attitude that drives me nuts, and enables a wild variety of severely negative gak beyond just GW. But that's politics, according to the Mods, and thus cannot be discussed here.
privateer4hire wrote: Okay. Has anyone compared the rulebook in the Uprising box with the hard cover one from N18?
Do you still need the Gangs book if you use Uprising's book outside the box campaign?
Sorry if this has been answered.
See below a comparison of the Dark Uprising Table of contents (from a Youtube reviewer), and that of the current Rulebook (from the iBooks store). I ordered the Dark Uprising book from a bits seller myself as I'd like to have the basic rules and the Enforcer rules, and this was much cheaper than getting the "normal" Rulebook and Book of Judgment (like, less than half even if ordering the two books from a non-GW store).
It looks like the basic rules (explanation on Profiles, General Principles, Rules, Skills) are all there in both. The differences appear to be that you get the below in one but not in the other:
"Normal" Rulebook: Psyker rules
Dominion Campaign
"Skirmish Games" (not sure what that is, actually)
Dominion scenarios
Arbitrator tools
Dark Uprising Rulebook: Dark Uprising Campaign
Dark Uprising scenarios
Enforcer rules
Corpse Grinder rules
Weapons and wargear rules for each
Seems to me that the DU campaign basically replaces the Dominion one and whether that bothers you is a matter of preference(?). Main things missing from DU appear to be the Psyker rules and the Arbitrator tools and I'm not sure how problematic that is, to be honest - hopefully those here who already play Necromunda can help with that!
In case you’re genuinely curious, skirmish games are one-off pickup games with predetermined gangs that pay for upgrades to get a sort of as-though-advanced-by-campaign effect.
Blood Bowl has similar rules for one-off matches as do many campaign-focused game systems.
Not really rules, but some guidelines. It goes without saying, if you want to play this game as a single game, agree with your opponent how many skills or stat increases you can have, how many points, what rarity / legality level you can purchase from, amount of pets, brutes, hired guns, and so forth.
Insane Ivan wrote: hopefully those here who already play Necromunda can help with that!
The Psyker rules are part of the "core" Necromunda rules these days. But not many gangs use them. Mainly Chaos Cult and Genestealer Cult can have Psyker in their gang. Some rewards or special rules can give additional psychic abilities. Then you have hired guns (Hive Scum, Bounty Hunters) available to most/all gangs. You are correct that we can help with that. Can help 100% (all rules, campaigns, cards ++).
Mr_Rose wrote: In case you’re genuinely curious, skirmish games are one-off pickup games with predetermined gangs that pay for upgrades to get a sort of as-though-advanced-by-campaign effect.
Blood Bowl has similar rules for one-off matches as do many campaign-focused game systems.
Oh right - I thought you'd just do Skirmish games by agreeing on a number of credits to spend beforehand. But that makes sense. Thanks, also to Baxx!
Are the Psyker rules and the Arbitrator rules stuff you'd really miss? I assume less so for the Arbitrator rules, and the Psyker rules are only a problem if you'd actually want to use a Psyker? What I'm hoping that with this and perhaps the Gangs book, I'm set to play as either Enforcers or one of the House gangs.
Abritrator rules are mostly useless. I've never used arbitrator rules and played Necromunda since late 90's (ORB, LRB, Community edition, N17/N18/N19).
Psykers are, as said previously, a core mechanic of the game, but not always used (depends on gangs and fighters).
Baxx wrote: Abritrator rules are mostly useless. I've never used arbitrator rules and played Necromunda since late 90's (ORB, LRB, Community edition, N17/N18/N19).
Psykers are, as said previously, a core mechanic of the game, but not always used (depends on gangs and fighters).
OK, cheers! Sorry, missed your update to your earlier post before. Looks like I should be able to get on with the DU book at least for a bit. Now to actually create a gang...
In addition to introducing new errors, Book of Ruin is a paid stealth errata fixing at least 1 error from previous Book of Judgement (hardened flak armour now reduces AP to a minimum of -1, instead of minimum 1)... sigh. Additionally, Chaos Wyrd Power "Scouring" is pseudo crippled, not being Continuous effect, but still has requirement to be maintained. What gives?
Just had a quick read through the Book of Ruin. On the whole, I really like the Corpse Grinder Cults - the weapon effects are brutal, and the masks do make sense - delibertaely terrifying beyond the usual standards in the Underhive.
Like that the Biophagus is now (pretty much) a hired gun option for the Genestealer Cults, BUT ... that into my three main complaints
1) the pretty identical benefits of the familiars for chaos helots and GSC. I really wish there was some special rules to differentiate the two (and that hired gun came with a unique familiar in tow).
2) the paltry range of psychic effects. So much overlap between all the means to bring these effects into the game, there definitely needs to be a few more options available. Even if they are only available through hired guns - really make them stand out. As it stands, a lot of them do feel rather rinse-and-repeat, with the backstory fluff more important than the mechanical cruch. Hired guns should stand apart fromn the rest of the crowd - make them worth the hiring cost.
3) weapons - the biophagus comes with with an awesome spiked man-catcher - which could have easily had a new custom weapon profile - they already gave Mad Dog Mono a similar-ish bespoke weapon. Also the CGC should have an additional versatile weapon option (alongside the chained-buzzsaw) for the Cutter/Champion to take advantage of - a huge bloody meathook on spiked chain with which to drag opponents in closer, for example.
This book was the ideal time to address both of these long-standing issues, but sadly it hasn't. :-/
Yodhrin wrote: So you only need to buy four sets of both at a grand total of roughly...640 pounds, to get a full 4x4 table.
Lol no.
If the standalone version of the terrain isn't available in a more affordable form, this is going to be Whales-only.
Yeah they managed to make it more expensive than the FW resin tiles which is kinda special.
What you're failing to mention is all the other stuff included in those boxes as well. The walls are being released in January apparently so we will see if it really is more expensive than the FW tiles rather than just getting multiple Dark Uprising boxes
Again, it is a bad idea to buy multiple copies of Dark Uprising because the terrain will certainly be available later without the additional costs of rulebooks, gangs, dice, and whatever. This is a Necromunda starter box, not one-quarter of a Zone Mortalis table.
It will still be way more expensive than anybody could reasonably be expected to afford, but slightly less so.
Yeah, but Shadow War had OLD models in it. Like really old. Dark Uprising has new models in it.
Also, Shadow War was $130 (remember when these kind of boxes were only $130, way back in... 2017) and the Promethium Refinery was basically the same set of terrain for, I think it was around $100. Seems they don't make it anymore.
Believed to be one set of tiles and one box of terrain.
So can anyone confirm the amount of terrain in the box because GW have really gone out of there way not to say, beyond saying 17 sprues of which 15 are zm related going from the pictures I can find on GW’s site and unboxing it looks like 12 pillar sections (6 sprues) but the rest is kinda hard to make out.
Yodhrin wrote: So you only need to buy four sets of both at a grand total of roughly...640 pounds, to get a full 4x4 table.
Lol no.
If the standalone version of the terrain isn't available in a more affordable form, this is going to be Whales-only.
Yeah they managed to make it more expensive than the FW resin tiles which is kinda special.
I don't think it makes up for the higher price, but its worth talking about difference in what you end up with by the time you have four sets of both as opposed to the resin ZM. Focusing on the terrain you end up with the equivalent of 2 plasma conduit kits (£22.50/ea), double the number of large and small doors FW would have give you with their bundle, between 2-3 extra tiles worth of walls for making the second levels, all the stairs and barricades.
Realistically you could probably sell all the non-terrain stuff and recoup a fair amount, even though I don't anyone should be expected to do that just to get what they want from a mass produced good.
The FW bundled set of 16 tiles with some doors were ~£400... they broke down to about £20 per tile, and the rest for the doors. When you look at the absolute best prices GW has ever given for plastic terrain its about £8/$11 per sprue, so in theory the cheapest we would ever see the terrain from this set is about £136/$187. A typical ZM tile built out of the plastic is one floor tile, one wall sprue, and one column sprue... easily £25-30 per tile. I think if you reduced what you got down to just the sprues and floors necessary for building the FW version of a 4x4 you end up at about £400-£450... the same as the FW basically.
So why can't GW do better?-I think the main problem with translating ZM from resin to plastic is a manufacturing consideration. The main advantage of resin over plastic is geometric, more specifically volume; while resin casting has practical limitations in the overall physical volume of the part as long as you work within that limit you'll be cheaper than producing in plastic. Producing in plastic is less of a volume consideration and more of a surface area consideration. You see it with these sprues, each bulky wall and eacy bulky column is unfolded and layed out flat. In effect GW took something that for the most part worked to the advantages of resin casting and translated it to one of the weaknesses of plastic molding. So after all the advantages of greater mass production, they broke even. I think even if they had tried to reduce price and produced a less flexible set at most that would have shaved off £2-£3/sq-ft.
I've said this before but this really underscores something for which I've been a proponent... I really think GW needs to sell some terrain set bundles they can sell online, that give you an amount of terrain based on whats actually needed for the different games. GW should sell a 4x4 necromunda set that bundles just what's needed. Terrain is expensive as it is, let alone when you have to buy it with a bunch of stuff you don't want.
jeff white wrote: if that is one box then... 160euros with free shipping int he eu seems like a pretty good deal!
Good deal for the amount you get sure, less so when the rules writers wrote the rules around you having 3-4 times the number of sets worth of terrain...
aka_mythos wrote: Good deal for the amount you get sure, less so when the rules writers wrote the rules around you having 3-4 times the number of sets worth of terrain...
Actually, it's the Sector Mechanicus which is set up on a (roughly) 4'x4' board. The Zone Mortalis rules involve alternating placing individual tiles (and not always in a square, or aligned), with the majority of scenarios only requiring 6 or 7. Part of it is that ZM tiles are more like mazes, so even taking up less space, it can actually take more moves to get to your opponent. Unless they changed the ZM rules for Dark Uprising, you could probably get by with just double the amount of terrain for most games, or minimally, just one.
It does appear to be more than one set
What makes you say that? Look at the GW site, it looks like about 11 or 12 pillars and about as many wall segments, so if this is more than a single set, it's not more than one or two wall segments more. Part of the difference is that it is mostly spread out on one level, while GW's website has more stuff on a second floor.
I'm not defending GW here at all, but I think the following is probably the best idea:
1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
3) Find a decent discount online somewhere if you can.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
Is that cheap? Hell no. Would I pay it? feth no. But for the people who are obsessed with plastic, that's likely the better way to do it. Skip the floor tiles and spend that money on a quality mat.
PS: At a glance, people are selling the Dark Uprising stuff for pretty solid money on eBay. Even the dice are listed at $15-20 per set, etc. I think parting out the stuff you don't want that is extraneous would be far better than waiting for the obnoxiously priced normal terrain when this stuff shows up in store.
i like a game of 40k with rolling activations. So, turn one deploy 300 points, turn 2 300 points, turn three 300 points.... small board friendly, no command points and cut most if not all card based stuff.
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Elbows wrote: I'm not defending GW here at all, but I think the following is probably the best idea:
1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
3) Find a decent discount online somewhere if you can.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
Is that cheap? Hell no. Would I pay it? feth no. But for the people who are obsessed with plastic, that's likely the better way to do it. Skip the floor tiles and spend that money on a quality mat.
PS: At a glance, people are selling the Dark Uprising stuff for pretty solid money on eBay. Even the dice are listed at $15-20 per set, etc. I think parting out the stuff you don't want that is extraneous would be far better than waiting for the obnoxiously priced normal terrain when this stuff shows up in store.
If you are ever in the Netherlands, I can see about getting a box shipped for 160Euros.
Elbows wrote: 1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
Given that ZM scenarios are set up tile by tile, and not always in a rectangle or even aligned, having the tiles does have some gameplay value and can create game boards beyond a single square mat. They do feel like an extravagance though and would probably be the last thing I'd consider getting.
What I'm most curious about is if you can use them to create large floor areas for upper levels. Sector Mechanicus is great at catwalks, but with straight floors at a premium, creating a broad, flat platform ends up wasting all your good walkways.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
It's possible, but I think the ZM terrain will be sold in different combinations (like the SM and SI terrain) that may give you more options in how you build your terrain collection. I'm hoping for one that is just 6 sprues of staircases, and a set with fewer doors and more walls.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
I think it might be a case where supply outstrips demand. I think the majority of the people buying this box are not Necromunda players and will probably flood eBay with the gangs and other materials. Sure, you'll get something back, but I don't think it will be particularly lucrative or offset the cost of the box that much. Selling the gangs for $30 apiece seems overly optimistic.
Sqorgar wrote: I think it might be a case where supply outstrips demand. I think the majority of the people buying this box are not Necromunda players and will probably flood eBay with the gangs and other materials... Selling the gangs for $30 apiece seems overly optimistic.
It would be nice to see a huge glut of cheap enforcers. I think they're ok, but very far down my list of purchases. If they're super cheap though I'll probably pick some up.
Right now the prices on eBay are rather absurd, but it's always this case when it's this early. Keep in mind with this price tag Dark Uprising isn't going to be like Dark Imperium. It'll be far more scarce. Right now people are asking $30 for five of the corpsegrinder cult, etc. I don't think $30-40 even $50 (considering the constant rise in box costs from GW) is unreasonable on eBay or second hand markets.
PS: The dice are "new" colours and thus will sell easily as well. Lots of people looking for unique or alternate dice since GW doesn't like the keep the gang dice in production for some reason.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The instructions for the ZM terrain is broken down into 2 different booklets, so likely going to be 2 terrain kits when sold separately.
Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls, probably a box of 1-2 door sprues, 2+ small wall sprues, 2+ long wall sprues, and 2+ column sprues. I'd guess a door, 2 of each wall, and 3 column sprues personally, giving an 8 sprue box.
Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs. Likely the smaller terrain kit, Probably going to be 2 stairs sprues and 2 platform sprues, I'd guess just those 4 in a box.
Assembling them is simple and fun, all the walls and columns you want to leave the top unglued as they flip over to lock in higher levels, or swap in platforms. And the floor tiles help the walls and colums sort of lock into place lightly. The floor is about the thickness of the catwalk tiles from SI or SM, but lacks connectors on the bottom, and unfortunately for my original plans, at 12" is slightly too small to use as a floor or roof since 5 building sections are 12.5" across instead.
Quoting to repeat the info. Glued some of the columns to wall sections in subassemblies to make it easier to set up. The fit can be pretty tight if you are using the plastic floor.
The Box contains 12 Pillars, 8 Small and 2 Large Wall sections, 2 Large Doors, 2 Small Doors, 4 Sprues of Stairs and Platforms, 1 Sprue of Promethium Pipes, 1 sprue of random stuff/ decoration. With the usual online discount, you get quite a lot of terrain for the money...
For anyone who does want to use the card tiles, but would also like actual walls, I can tell you that the Gamemat stuff (Hive Walls) are really nice. One set is enough to do all of the layouts in the original set of tiles (I think), but not quite enough for all the layouts in every set of released tiles. They fit (almost) perfectly, by which I mean that they aren't perfectly flush, but I don't think I've had any pieces that were a millimeter off, much less 4.
But they are $110 US, resin, and fully painted. It's not cheap, but it's not that bad relative to GW wall options. They are more expensive than MDF, but hey, they are assembled and painted already! They look really nice on a board, and are pretty great quality.
They won't 'build upwards' like the new GW terrain, but Zone Mortalis is pretty explicitly 'one-level' gaming, so they work great for that. I was gonna try to get a lot of the new GW stuff, but realizing that it won't be compatible with the Necromunda Zone Mortalis stuff means that I will be using it just to get some terrain diversity and not really worrying about modularity, I think. I just can't fathom any good-faith reason for making the plastic floor tiles and the card floor tiles different dimensions. It really drains a lot of the goodwill I had built up towards GW recently.
But the money I will save will probably go to another set of the Gamemat Hive Walls!
Yeah I was thinking about getting the Gamemat.eu stuff. GW's new plastic terrain has convinced me to get it though. So... thanks GW for making that decision easy.
I found this review of the ZM terrain kits helpful. How the tiles work together with the wall sections, where you can actually clip them into the tiles etc (shown in the first half of the vid)
Believed to be one set of tiles and one box of terrain.
So can anyone confirm the amount of terrain in the box because GW have really gone out of there way not to say, beyond saying 17 sprues of which 15 are zm related going from the pictures I can find on GW’s site and unboxing it looks like 12 pillar sections (6 sprues) but the rest is kinda hard to make out.
Not got mine entirely built yet, but the only extra thing I can see there is maybe a couple of extra pillars. You definitely get all of those wall sections and it looks like they’ve only used about half of the doors. So that table is fairly representative of the setup you can get from the box. I can also confirm that the plastic tiles are ~10mm wider than the underhive cardstock
Thanks for the update with the pics! It cements my opinion that the floor tiles are just a waste of money. The scenery looks great, but none of the Mechanicus stuff seats into the ZM tiles at all, and actively rides above the detail. It blows goats that the ZM walls aren't compatible with the old ZM boards, but the ZM scenery looks great with the Sector Mechanicus stuff. Nice!
I did a quick trial last night and although most of the SM stuff does “float” on the tiles, it’s actually pretty stable and doesn’t seem to affect how it lines up with the ZM.
Yeah, look a few posts up, was a video showing all angles of new tiles and terrain:
Warhams-77 wrote: I found this review of the ZM terrain kits helpful. How the tiles work together with the wall sections, where you can actually clip them into the tiles etc (shown in the first half of the vid)
Plastic ZM tiles have bits and bobs sticking up, wouldn't want that on the bottom, as it wouldn't sit straigth on the table. Or the entire weight of the tile (including terrain, minis, dice ++) would sit on a few mm parts on the terrain, guaranteed chipping (if painting both sides).
Do we have any idea when the Subjugators (and Corpse Grinders) will become available as separate boxes? I'm keen to make an Enforcer gang but want to have both sets of models available before I start building, and I'm not going to buy the Dark Uprising box set.
One thing I've noticed on bits sites is that the scenery and Enforcers sold like hot cakes, while the Corpse Grinders continue to languish on - they're clearly far less popular.
Insane Ivan wrote: Do we have any idea when the Subjugators (and Corpse Grinders) will become available as separate boxes? I'm keen to make an Enforcer gang but want to have both sets of models available before I start building, and I'm not going to buy the Dark Uprising box set.
One thing I've noticed on bits sites is that the scenery and Enforcers sold like hot cakes, while the Corpse Grinders continue to languish on - they're clearly far less popular.
No idea on dates, but the box has a leaflet with gang boxes of the Subjugators and Corpse Grinders shown. Probably new year I reckon...
Insane Ivan wrote: Do we have any idea when the Subjugators (and Corpse Grinders) will become available as separate boxes? I'm keen to make an Enforcer gang but want to have both sets of models available before I start building, and I'm not going to buy the Dark Uprising box set.
One thing I've noticed on bits sites is that the scenery and Enforcers sold like hot cakes, while the Corpse Grinders continue to languish on - they're clearly far less popular.
No idea on dates, but the box has a leaflet with gang boxes of the Subjugators and Corpse Grinders shown. Probably new year I reckon...
That makes sense, they weren't on the leaked schedule for this year, I think? Oh well, a bit of a wait...
Not Online!!! wrote:how expensive are we talking for the Corpse grinders?
Because they sure as hell would make for great kitbashes imo.
Insane Ivan wrote: Do we have any idea when the Subjugators (and Corpse Grinders) will become available as separate boxes? I'm keen to make an Enforcer gang but want to have both sets of models available before I start building, and I'm not going to buy the Dark Uprising box set.
One thing I've noticed on bits sites is that the scenery and Enforcers sold like hot cakes, while the Corpse Grinders continue to languish on - they're clearly far less popular.
That isn't surprising, given the lack of variety and sheer mind-boggling choice of no guns on most of the gang.
Out of sheer boredom I calculated the average piece requirement for a 4x4 table of the former forge world tiles and compared them again the box contents previously posted here by bossdoc.
Looking online, I was only able to find seven forgeworld zone mortalis 1x1 tiles layouts. When I averaged out their respective numbers of pillars, short walls, and long walls, I got the following averages: 3.29 pillars, 3.14 short walls, and 1.43 long walls, per 1x1 tile. A 4x4 table requires 16 1x1 tiles. Thus filling the table with tiles would require 52.57 pillars, 50.29 short walls, and 22.86 long walls.
Based off of those calculations, you would need 4.38 dark uprising boxes worth of pillars, 6.29 boxes worth of short walls, and 11.43 boxes worth of long walls to create a comparable table to the original forge world product. Those figures don't yet account for the floor pieces being separate, requiring 4 boxes worth of floor tiles to make the 4x4 table.
It's also nothing but sheer conjecture, as outside of the tiles which are apparently a 'limited run' product(which makes me wonder if this was a testing ground hence the single tile being repeated 4 times)? We don't know anything about how stuff will be packaged/sold.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Out of sheer boredom I calculated the average piece requirement for a 4x4 table of the former forge world tiles and compared them again the box contents previously posted here by bossdoc.
Looking online, I was only able to find seven forgeworld zone mortalis 1x1 tiles layouts. When I averaged out their respective numbers of pillars, short walls, and long walls, I got the following averages: 3.29 pillars, 3.14 short walls, and 1.43 long walls, per 1x1 tile. A 4x4 table requires 16 1x1 tiles. Thus filling the table with tiles would require 52.57 pillars, 50.29 short walls, and 22.86 long walls.
Based off of those calculations, you would need 4.38 dark uprising boxes worth of pillars, 6.29 boxes worth of short walls, and 11.43 boxes worth of long walls to create a comparable table to the original forge world product. Those figures don't yet account for the floor pieces being separate, requiring 4 boxes worth of floor tiles to make the 4x4 table.
That's a bit misleading. In general, yes, the Dark Uprising box has enough terrain for a 2x2 table, so if you want four times as much terrain, you'll need four times as many boxes.
However, in Necromunda, Zone Mortalis scenarios are not played on 4x4 tables. Players alternate placing tiles and in some scenarios can stop after just 4 tiles. You could end up with something that is 6x1. Here's the ZM tile requirement from the rulebook:
Tunnel Skirmish - 4 to 6 tiles
The Trap - 5 tiles (in a plus shape)
Forgotten Riches - 7 tiles
The Maurauders - 6 tiles
Sneak Attack - 7 tiles
Smash & Grab - 6 tiles
You can, of course, play with however many tiles you want, but the game never demands more than 7 tiles at a time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: It's also nothing but sheer conjecture, as outside of the tiles which are apparently a 'limited run' product(which makes me wonder if this was a testing ground hence the single tile being repeated 4 times)?
Has it been said that it is a limited run product?
As for why that tile is repeated 4 times is because it is specifically designed to replicate the Zone Mortalis floors. It is built to hold the pillars and walls at specific points, like studs in a LEGO set. It's functional more than decorative, and you can always paint/mod it in various ways to make it look different. Other tiles would be useful and interesting for non-ZM terrain or display though, and I actually hope they release other tiles (or even half or quarter tiles), but honestly, without the locking mechanism these tiles have, I think just about everybody would prefer a soft printed mat (especially when laying their miniatures down).
My calculation was largely an exercise in comparing the two products from the same company to get a sense of relative value.
Furthermore, on the point about their value in the box versus as separate items, we can only go off of what we have seen GW do in the past. IIRC, the shadow wars armageddon box sold the then new sector mechanicus terrain at a discount over their individual sale. I find it highly unlikely that GW will price the zone mortalis terrain cheaper outside of the box. However, that is still conjecture.
-edit- I can also add that I'm interested in the terrain for horus heresy games and not necromunda, which I know nothing about. That influenced my consideration of a 4x4 table. If we go off of the aforementioned seven tile requirement for necromunda, you get the following requirements: 1.92 boxes worth of columns, 2.75 boxes worth of short walls, and 5 boxes worth of long walls.
I won't defend GW's prices. They are so high, I feel like I need to throw boxes of space marines into the Boston Harbor to protest GW's heavy taxation without representation.
But this is a Necromunda product designed for Necromunda players. Being upset that it isn't a good way to play Horus Heresy is a bit like complaining about building a Slaves to Darkness army out of Warcry starter sets. Surely, there are better alternatives...
Similarly, you do not and probably should not try to emulate the resin Zone Mortalis tiles explicitly. There's wiggle room in how you build - and rebuild - your plastic ZM board, so assuming a worse case scenario that you'd need every wall and column for every board is a bit excessive. A little open space, or using layouts with less populated boards is entirely possible.
Has anyone figured out if there is a set pattern to the terrain like warcry?
Iv skimmed the book and it seems like the only instructions are the old ones using the original zones or cardboard tiles and i have no idea how to set up the walls them selves.
The Book of Ruin is a mess! Some new interesting content, a lot of reprints from earlier publications, a lot of overlap with Dark Uprising rulebook, a lot of errors, internal and external inconsistencies. I recommend the new content, looks fun (if you can make it work), but I wouldn't recommend paying for this book. It shouldn't have left editing in this state (seems rushed).
Baxx wrote: The Book of Ruin is a mess! Some new interesting content, a lot of reprints from earlier publications, a lot of overlap with Dark Uprising rulebook, a lot of errors, internal and external inconsistencies. I recommend the new content, looks fun (if you can make it work), but I wouldn't recommend paying for this book. It shouldn't have left editing in this state (seems rushed).
While I'm also not surprised, this is also really depressing having just dropped $45 on this book and was really looking forward to getting my hands on it...not to mention my GSC Acolytes got nerfed...
Necromunda, the game, is much like the planet itself: a dark and dystopic place, filled with dangerous dark alleys, precarious tunnels that lead nowhere, and long forgotten accomplishments covered in a layer of sludge - but to the inhabitants that live there, great treasures can be mined from its murky depths.
Baxx wrote: The Book of Ruin is a mess! Some new interesting content, a lot of reprints from earlier publications, a lot of overlap with Dark Uprising rulebook, a lot of errors, internal and external inconsistencies. I recommend the new content, looks fun (if you can make it work), but I wouldn't recommend paying for this book. It shouldn't have left editing in this state (seems rushed).
Specialist Games have a major issue with their proofreading which they really need to sort out. They recently released an A5 book with all the updated Blood Bowl core rules, in an attempt to satisfy the demands for an updated copy of the core rules without having to buy the boxed game and cart around an almanac or two. They then went and made a load of really basic typos in it, including things like movement values, totally undermining the whole point of said book. It's getting beyond silly now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait, GSC got nerfed? Did they at least give Champs more than 1 wound?
Yep. and nope...I dont think so, cant confirm until I get my copy on Friday, but from my understanding, the Acolytes (champs) went from Str4 to Str3...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait, GSC got nerfed? Did they at least give Champs more than 1 wound?
Book of Ruin:
Genestealer Hybrid Acolytes: Still 1 wound (and S3/T3), hand flamers are 50 cred. (for GSC).
Dark Uprising Rulebook:
Enforcers still cannot get magnacles (nor cyber mastiffs, webbers, etc.).
Scavenging only lets you loot stuff from your own House Equipment List...
Also grenade launcher stun grenades dont have Blast - but ”Grenade” (!),
Heavy Concussion Ram also doesnt have Blast, etc.
Three different ways to explain how/if to use Firepower Dice in CC (page 17, 18 and 41) - and still no Index!
Strange wordings: ”The total number of Initiates ... must ... than, the number of OTHER Skinners in the gang.”
Still among the best Necro books this far though.
I got what I expected and am really happy!
And they're still pricing flame weapons as if they were still producing cardboard ZM tiles.
Honestly...
[EDIT]: More revelations!
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No5... The pipe fittings can be magnetised (6x2mm Magnets) at the correct height on walls and columns. B11 and B12 fit to columns and wall ends. Whilst C11 and C12 fit on Walls.
Zone Mortalis Tip No6... B13 has a hidden use. By cutting down a pipe to 3 sections wide and adding B13 to either end along with the wall pipe fittings, makes it the correct length to join across two wall sections.
Cutting down plasma conduits is tedious. I suggest literally oiling your blade before doing it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And they're still pricing flame weapons as if they were still producing cardboard ZM tiles.
Honestly...
[EDIT]: More revelations!
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No5... The pipe fittings can be magnetised (6x2mm Magnets) at the correct height on walls and columns. B11 and B12 fit to columns and wall ends. Whilst C11 and C12 fit on Walls.
Zone Mortalis Tip No6... B13 has a hidden use. By cutting down a pipe to 3 sections wide and adding B13 to either end along with the wall pipe fittings, makes it the correct length to join across two wall sections.
Cutting down plasma conduits is tedious. I suggest literally oiling your blade before doing it.
Has anyone figured out how many pillars, short walls, and long wall sections you can build from one NUU box? I keep seeing pics of the sprues in a pile (so I can't count each type) and assembled boxes on a board, so some stuff is obscured.
They're from Owen Patten's twitter. He's the guy who designed these kits, and is doing a series of tips and tricks much like Ray Dranfield did for all his terrain.
Da Butcha wrote: Has anyone figured out how many pillars, short walls, and long wall sections you can build from one NUU box? I keep seeing pics of the sprues in a pile (so I can't count each type) and assembled boxes on a board, so some stuff is obscured.
12 pillars, 8 short walls, 2 long walls, 2 big doors 2 small doors. 2 sets of stairs, 2 elevators (or one double tall one), 2 of the 3 panel column caps, 4 single tile column caps with 6 panels to add to them (I have 2 L shaped ones and 2 with a panel on one side)
Da Butcha wrote: Has anyone figured out how many pillars, short walls, and long wall sections you can build from one Necromunda: Dark Uprising box? I keep seeing pics of the sprues in a pile (so I can't count each type) and assembled boxes on a board, so some stuff is obscured.
12 pillars, 8 short walls, 2 long walls, 2 big doors 2 small doors. 2 sets of stairs, 2 elevators (or one double tall one), 2 of the 3 panel column caps, 4 single tile column caps with 6 panels to add to them (I have 2 L shaped ones and 2 with a panel on one side)
Thanks! That's useful to know. For someone who wants to recreate any of the card ZM tile layouts on the new plastic ZM tiles, you'd need two sets of floor tiles (although no ZM scenario uses more than 7, I think). However, you would need 24 short walls, 12 long walls, and 24 pillars.
Spoiler:
Coincidentally exactly how many you get in the GameMat.eu resin set, which works with the old card tiles
You would have to buy 4 sets of Dark Uprising (which would get you a TON of extra pillars), and you could use the 8 extra short walls to make up for the 4 long walls that you would be missing. Of course, you would get tons of doors, stairs, elevators, and column caps as well--and, of course, tons of models, rules, templates, etc. Maybe the terrain boxes will be priced so that you don't feel like you are getting hosed for not buying multiple starters.
You would have to buy 4 sets of Dark Uprising (which would get you a TON of extra pillars), and you could use the 8 extra short walls to make up for the 4 long walls that you would be missing. Of course, you would get tons of doors, stairs, elevators, and column caps as well--and, of course, tons of models, rules, templates, etc. Maybe the terrain boxes will be priced so that you don't feel like you are getting hosed for not buying multiple starters.
The instructions are split into Zone Mortalis Walls and Columns and Zone Mortalis Stairs and Platforms. My theory is that there will be a large corridor box, with 1 door sprue, 2 sprues of long wall, 2 sprues of short walls and 3-4 column sprues for say $100-$125 and then a small platform box with 2 stair sprues and 2 platform sprues for $50-$60
Apparently there is a hired gun in the book of ruin that may or may not be a blood angels space marine. Really hope they make a miniature for this guy. They did a better job with the concept than I would have thought.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And someone on Facebook has confirmed that the ZM floor tiles are slightly thinner than the Sector Mechanicus walkways, by like a mm or two.
This is, of course, quite devastating.
I'm not sure why.
Were you planning on using floor tiles as second levels? Because the ZM floor tiles have a hollow underbelly with irregularly shaped reinforcement for strength, so they wouldn't be a good candidate for that anyway. They wouldn't mesh consistently, and you can't easily cut them up, as the pattern is irregular. If you were planning on that, I guess it's no more devastating to find that out either.
Or were you going to use Sector Mechanicus walkways for floor tiles, in which case, tell me where you are getting all those spare walkways, man!
H.B.M.C. wrote: And someone on Facebook has confirmed that the ZM floor tiles are slightly thinner than the Sector Mechanicus walkways, by like a mm or two.
That would actually be worse as then it'd be far too thick.
The thing about the Sector Mechanicus stuff is that it's engineered to be very precise. Change one element of height and it tends to throw things out of alignment quite badly. This is why the Plasma Regulators are such annoying pieces (however gorgeous they are - yes, I own 10). They're not the same height as regular Sector Mechanicus pieces (5") nor are they half-height like many of the accessory pieces (2.5"). Frustrating things.
These new floors are a few mm off, which really isn't the complete end of the world, but two of them together would be very thick. But as Da Butcha says, they don't sound suitable given the underside hollow.
The struggle to get proper platforms in large numbers continues.
Da Butcha wrote: Were you planning on using floor tiles as second levels?
Precisely that. I thought they'd make for a good alternative to an upper level to save myself from having to use my precious straight and square walkways. Apparently not.
Da Butcha wrote: Or were you going to use Sector Mechanicus walkways for floor tiles, in which case, tell me where you are getting all those spare walkways, man!
Oh I wish I had a big(ger) supply. They're worth their weight in gold to me.
Breotan wrote: Why would you use a knife to do this? A saw is much better tool for this type of work.
Don't own a saw. And I need one so rarely that owning one isn't worth the money.
Thargrim wrote: Apparently there is a hired gun in the book of ruin that may or may not be a blood angels space marine. Really hope they make a miniature for this guy. They did a better job with the concept than I would have thought.
Necromunda: The Book of Ruin wrote:VANDOTH THE FALLEN
Vandoth is a figure of legend on Necromunda and stories are told of his deeds from the sky- hives of the Stormlands to the toxic shores of the Great Scavvie Sea. A giant of a man bound in layers of crimson muscle, Vandoth can crush a man’s skull with one hand and turn aside blades with his hardened skin. Most disturbing of all though are the tales of Vandoth’s unquenchable thirst for blood. It is said that hidden behind his mask are long canine fangs, and after he kills, the gigantic warrior stoops over his prey to drain them dry. Outlaws sometimes pay for Vandoth’s aid with the promise of coin, weapons or glory, though the giant mostly does as he pleases, aiding others when his interests align with theirs. There are conflicting accounts as to where Vandoth comes from and who (or even what) he is. Some insist the massive warrior was once a Goliath, somehow corrupted in the vat with tainted blood. Others believe Vandoth was once one of Lord Helmawr’s personal guards, until he was genetically altered into a vampiric beast for the ruler of Necromunda’s amusement. Then there are the stories that the massive fighter is a thing of Chaos, though the savagery Vandoth shows to those corrupted by the Dark Gods would seem to discount this. All that is known for sure is Vandoth has wandered Necromunda for centuries at least, his face hidden behind a mask and an ancient oversized boltgun at his side.
Yeah, he's an interesting character. The fact that he's been there for centuries makes me wonder how long he's actually been there. Stranded for thousands of years on Necromunda?
Has anyone seen pictures of the old cardboard tiles with the new Zone Mortalis Walls an Collumns ontop? How well if at all do they fit the "black Wallspaces" printed on those cardboard tiles? I'll only be getting my 3 boxes thursday and am really anxious to know :-D Why? Because I split all my cardboard tiles in Half (plane-wise), so that I have not one tile each with front and backside printed on, but two seperate tiles with printed surface which I then proceeded to glue onto gameboards, got 2x 2x3foot and 1x 6x4foot like that... Would be really swell if I could plop the new walls ontop of that without too much of a hassle
edit: gak, it's about 18.8 floortiles for 3' width, so about 1.9" per floortile, but the new plastik floorplates have 2" floortiles and the plastik walls can collums are designed for those.... but maybe it just barely fits :-D hopefully
I don't know how feasible this is, but I think the old tiles were literally just scaled down by some small percentage. If you could scan them in and print them out at the 1'x1', it might work.
Also, it's worth pointing out that you can probably use the columns without the walls, and maybe use some foamboard for walls. It really depends on how much effort you want to go to.
But yeah, they aren't really the same size and you'll be better off just gluing the poster that comes in Dark Uprising to a board and using that instead.
Sqorgar wrote: I don't know how feasible this is, but I think the old tiles were literally just scaled down by some small percentage. If you could scan them in and print them out at the 1'x1', it might work.
Also, it's worth pointing out that you can probably use the columns without the walls, and maybe use some foamboard for walls. It really depends on how much effort you want to go to.
But yeah, they aren't really the same size and you'll be better off just gluing the poster that comes in Dark Uprising to a board and using that instead.
I know this! I am aware that the cardboard tiles use 1.9" floorsegments and the new ones use 2" floor segments. I HAVE WRITTEN SUCH. I am aware of this.
I want to know if anyone has a foto of the new plastik walls and corners sitting on the old cardboard tiles, because I want to gauge how horrible it looks;
because I have 3 whole boards with old cardboard tiles glued on top
and i have ordererd 3 boxes of dark uprising
and I want to know if it is a futile effort.
I'm sorry, am I talking hebrew? Is my writing so hardly legible? So hard to understand? All that you have written and said - I already know! I already wrote in the post you are replying to!
Holy Moley, what is up with peoples Reading comprehension?!
Sqorgar wrote: I don't know how feasible this is, but I think the old tiles were literally just scaled down by some small percentage. If you could scan them in and print them out at the 1'x1', it might work.
Also, it's worth pointing out that you can probably use the columns without the walls, and maybe use some foamboard for walls. It really depends on how much effort you want to go to.
But yeah, they aren't really the same size and you'll be better off just gluing the poster that comes in Dark Uprising to a board and using that instead.
I know this! I am aware that the cardboard tiles use 1.9" floorsegments and the new ones use 2" floor segments. I HAVE WRITTEN SUCH. I am aware of this.
I want to know if anyone has a foto of the new plastik walls and corners sitting on the old cardboard tiles, because I want to gauge how horrible it looks;
because I have 3 whole boards with old cardboard tiles glued on top
and i have ordererd 3 boxes of dark uprising
and I want to know if it is a futile effort.
I'm sorry, am I talking hebrew? Is my writing so hardly legible? So hard to understand? All that you have written and said - I already know! I already wrote in the post you are replying to!
Holy Moley, what is up with peoples Reading comprehension?!
I'm sorry, am I talking hebrew? Is my writing so hardly legible? So hard to understand? All that you have written and said - I already know! I already wrote in the post you are replying to!
Holy Moley, what is up with peoples Reading comprehension?!
I find that when I'm asking others for something, acting like a complete dick is the best way to go about it.
And yes, your writing is hard to understand. Even if you spelled things correctly and used proper punctuation, capitalization, and spacing, the way you phrase things and the word choices you make are an obstacle to understanding.
You might fancy covering those mats with the new tiles.
You sir are a god send! Thank you so much! Seeing that picture, I'm actually really really relieved - I think it's gonna be serviceable; one part of the solution might be to glue a small lid underneath (0.1mm plasticcard) and have a couple of millimeters of rubble extending away from walls and corners - that should obfuscate all misalignments with the black spaces! another part of the Solution will be to shorten some of the wall sections by like 4mm each, and it'll be GOLDEN
Sqorgar wrote: I don't know how feasible this is, but I think the old tiles were literally just scaled down by some small percentage. If you could scan them in and print them out at the 1'x1', it might work.
Also, it's worth pointing out that you can probably use the columns without the walls, and maybe use some foamboard for walls. It really depends on how much effort you want to go to.
But yeah, they aren't really the same size and you'll be better off just gluing the poster that comes in Dark Uprising to a board and using that instead.
old tiles were based on the old Zones resin boards which were not actually 1x1'
Zone Mortalis Tip No7...The first about stairs.The stairs are modular in themselves, and multiple stairs can connect to the stair platform in several positions.Plasma Conduit pipes will also fit under the stair platform.
Zone Mortalis Tip No8... because stairs need more than one tweet. You can stack two sets of stairs on top of each other and create a staircase that spirals around a column.
Zone Mortalis Tip No7...The first about stairs.The stairs are modular in themselves, and multiple stairs can connect to the stair platform in several positions.Plasma Conduit pipes will also fit under the stair platform.
Zone Mortalis Tip No8... because stairs need more than one tweet. You can stack two sets of stairs on top of each other and create a staircase that spirals around a column.
That’s actually really cool, thank you for sharing . I like this new terrain a lot, but I’m not sure I’ll get any since it’s not compatible with the cardboard tiles.
I was about to grumble that I didnt think to magnetize mine before building them, but not only are they open bottom, none of the tops are glued to allow for flipping to stack layers and adding walkway pieces. I may have to track down a ton of the right size magnet I guess.
That’s actually really cool, thank you for sharing . I like this new terrain a lot, but I’m not sure I’ll get any since it’s not compatible with the cardboard tiles.
Couldn't you just make yourself some new tiles that they are compatible with? Surely it can't be that hard.
That’s actually really cool, thank you for sharing . I like this new terrain a lot, but I’m not sure I’ll get any since it’s not compatible with the cardboard tiles.
Couldn't you just make yourself some new tiles that they are compatible with? Surely it can't be that hard.
Eh, I’d have to buy a decent graphic design program, learn how to use it, measure everything to a very precise degree, find a company that will print custom designs onto durable card tiles with a mat finish (because if I went through that much work I wouldn’t just glue print outs onto a tile). Sounds like more work than I am willing to put in to make myself (very subpar with my artist abilities) tiles so I can buy some terrain to use with them. I’m at a point in my life where I don’t have a ton of free time, and I’d rather spend a bit more money on things that require less work so I can use my free time to do things I really want to do (like paint my enormous backlog of minis.
That’s not to say there aren’t people out there that this wouldn’t be any easy solution for, I just don’t fall into that category.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Citadel™ Magnets™ isn't something I ever want to see on sale.
They'd be so stupidly overpriced.
While I agree with not wanting to see GW start doing that, I don't understand why they haven't (as far as I'm aware) posted anything like:
H.B.M.C. wrote:More revelations:
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No7...The first about stairs.The stairs are modular in themselves, and multiple stairs can connect to the stair platform in several positions.Plasma Conduit pipes will also fit under the stair platform.
Zone Mortalis Tip No8... because stairs need more than one tweet. You can stack two sets of stairs on top of each other and create a staircase that spirals around a column.
Those pictures and a handful of lines of accompanying text have done more to enthuse me for the set than anything posted on the offical channels. There was a 3min video in which the same guy briefly mentioned some of the options, but they didn't show any of it off in detail - only a massive table that, though excellent, also looked way too intimidating to try making yourself any time soon. Some small variations and tricks that anyone with a set or two can accomplish? That's more like it.
Yep, I'm really liking all the stuff that can be done with the set especially once you start combining the pipes and other scenery kits. Just got one set of uprising and 3 sets of the floor tiles, but sure I'll add a lot more of the scenery kits once they are released on their own. Haven't added magnets yet, but as pointed out the places they need to go are still easily accessible once the walls and pillars have been assembled so can add them any time.
Also, painted up a wall section as a test piece and was really pleased at the results I got with a pretty quick paint scheme, so I think getting a decent sized set of scenery painted up will not take too long, especially once I start batch painting it.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I bet the masters were 1x1 but the resin casts shrunk a bit, not really noticible on a 28mm mini but when you get to 305mm it shows
It shouldn't have, if they're using decent quality resin. The fast-cast stuff I use has less than 1mm shrinkage per metre, and it's not even close to the best stuff on the market.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I bet the masters were 1x1 but the resin casts shrunk a bit, not really noticible on a 28mm mini but when you get to 305mm it shows
It shouldn't have, if they're using decent quality resin. The fast-cast stuff I use has less than 1mm shrinkage per metre, and it's not even close to the best stuff on the market.
Yea, it's not shrinkage its just metric vs imperial. The FW tiles were made in metric units at 300mm and the new Plastic ones were made in imperial units at 12 inches (aka 304.8mm).
H.B.M.C. wrote: But... don't the stairs/platforms not work by themselves? What would you use them with if they were sold by themselves?
The Instruction booklet for Zone Mortalis - Platforms and Stairs only includes the build instructions for the platforms, stairs, and elevator on the two sprues. Columns are shown, but faded out with a note "! The Zone Mortalis Stairs and Platforms can be used with the Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls as shown" So I'm guessing no column sprues included in the platform set. There are pages in the back showing how the four kits all work together (two listed, floors, and plasma pipes)
Just to give a hint of how big a mess the Book of Ruin is, it references the Turf War campaign...
Why wouldn’t it?
The Turf War campaign was only available in Gang War 1, which is out of print. It has essentially been replaced by the Dominion campaign in the big hardback rulebook. They are very similar campaigns though.
INTERNAL CONFLICTS
Razor-sharp talons (page 50, 101): The first matches Khimmerix's weapon (Str S+1, AP -2, D3, Rending), the second is a brand new, much weaker weapon profile (Str +1, AP -1, D 1, Rending).
Scouring Pyromancy Wyrd Power (page 34, 99): The first is similar to the old one from Book of Perils, which was later fixed in Book of Book of Judgement. The later is the correct one, as fixed in Book of Judgement. Neither are 'Continuous Effect', but the bad one counts as a carried weapon 'while maintained'. The correct one is fired immediately when successfully making the Wyrd Power. The good one on page 99 is also different from all previous Scouring by having AP -2.
Extra arm (page 43-45): Different Extra Arm Special Rules. The Alpha has a newer wording, while the wording for Acolytes and Neophytes was copied from PDF.
Assail (page 34, 48, 79, 99): The version on page 99 (copied from The Book of Judgement page 117 or 124) is different from the others (page 34, 48 and 79) (copied from The Book of Judgement page 25).
EXTERNAL CONFLICTS (CONFLICT WITH PREVIOUS PUBLICATIONS)
Venomous bite (page 101): A new unique weapon (AP -2, Melee, Toxin), however Cyberachnid already have this weapon with a different profile (identical to stiletto knife).
Throwing knives (page 94): Incorrect profile for throwing knife. Missing silent and has Str S (toxin weapons usually shouldn't have Str).
Flame Blast (page 99): Technically different from the one found in The Book of Judgement on page 117 (says 'weapon with the Melee trait' instead of 'close combat weapon', but may count as a clarification) and completely different from the one found in The Book of Judgement on page 124 (says 'ranged weapon'). This could be intentional as the fighters are carrying different weapons, but still...
Freeze Time (page 99): Different from the one found in The Book of Judgement on page 117. It now applies 'during the following round' instead of 'for the remainder of this round' and its range has been reduced to 6" (instead of 12"). Of note, there is a reference in the Book of ruin to the powers from the N18 rulebook (those from the Ghast Harvest scenario, on page 171), that use the same wording as the Book of Judgement. So it may technically count as an internal inconsistency.
Hierarchy of the Damned and the Loss of a Leader (page 25-26): Specialists get priority over regular gangers in the rulebook (but don't in the book of ruin).
ERRORS
Abomination of Badzone 12 is not immune to Pinning and can't make an action to stand up. Should probably be immune to Pinning, either by a special rule (similar to Spawn), or given Nerves of Steel since it automatically passes Cool checks (except Nerves of Steel has unclear interactions with Seismic trait).
Hermaphage Magos (page 50): Doesn't specify Non-sanctioned. The fighter is an Outlaw Bounty Hunter with several Wyrd Powers. Alyce Shivver is also Outlaw Bounty Hunter with several Wyrd Powers, but is specified to be Non-sanctioned. Hermaphage Magos should probably be Non-sanctioned also!
Spearing spines and bony growths (page 101): Melee weapon with 1" long range, but missing the Versatile trait. Should probably have Versatile!
House Favours (page 106): "Note that the House Favours table included here is the same as the one on page 148 of the Necromunda Rulebook, and has been included for completeness". Wrong, it is NOT the same! On a 13+, old gives equipment for 100 credits, new is 150 credits.
House & Outlaw Favours (page 107-108: Mix between "campaign cycle" and "campaign week".
Chaos Favours (page 110): Dark Omens specifies the Demagogue (title of Chaos Cult Leader) to perfrom the Lead Ritual post-battle action. However other Chaotic gangs (Corrupted gangs & Corpse Grinder cult) don't have a Demagogue. And Corpse Grinder Cult can't even perform the Lead Ritual post-battle action (which may be an error of itself).
Demolition Charge (page 32, 46): Both Chaos cults and Genestealer cults have to pay 65 credits to purchase Demolition charges from their respective Equipment Lists while they only cost 50 credits in the trading post. This error has been copy/pasted from the pdf (demo charge were 50 credits for Genestealer Cults in the original WD article).
Meeeeeeeeeat! scenario (page 83): Specifies how many tactics cards the "defender" can choose. But there are no attacker or defender in this scenario.
Hierarchy of the Damned (page 25): Still references the Cult Leader skill from the original article. This skill as been replaced by the Devotion special rules in the pdf (the problem already existed in the pdf though).
Turf War (page 41): "If using a Genestealer Cults gang in a Turf War Campaign, the following rules apply" -WTF?!?
Zone Mortalis Tip No9..You can never have enough stairs, here are some examples of using multiple sets of stairs. My favourite is using four sets which once combined create another floor level, and a great area to fight over.
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No10... you can build a set of stairs without a middle floor section.
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No11...The Lift will fit on the end of a wall or to a column.
The lift floor can be positioned at different heights using a friction fitting- no magnets required.
Multiple lifts also stack.
Should have made a friction fit elevator floor to fit in Sector Mechanicus stairs also. Guess they didn't think hard enough back then (also not specifically designed for Necromunda).
Many interesting and beautiful things can be done with these terrain pieces. For anyone who have played Minecraft, I think we get the idea.
While the photos illustrate a well of possibilities, I doubt you can do much with just a single box of Dark Uprising. Gonna need multiple boxes of terrain to do stuff like that?
All very neat ideas. I'm sure copies will pop up on Thingiverse in due time. Until then I can print some half-height Sector Mechanicus pillars and cisterns and get much the same results.
Baxx wrote: While the photos illustrate a well of possibilities, I doubt you can do much with just a single box of Dark Uprising. Gonna need multiple boxes of terrain to do stuff like that?
According to a user on Reddit, this is one box worth of terrain (and he still hadn't done the barricades):
Seeing displays like that makes me really consider picking up a box, especially if that is truly only one box. I haven't looked in the rulebook from the set, and my concern would be whether all the missions in that rulebook can be played on a 2x2. If they can I will likely pull the trigger and pick up the set.
Yeah, if that's one box, and with Black Friday around the corner with local store discounts and credit on top of that... it's getting awfully tempting.
Here's my Necromunda terrain built and set up on a 2x2 realm of battle tile. I haven't yet built the walkways, stairs, or pipes, so all you see here are the columns, walls, and the standard necromunda barricades/objective markers.
I already have a bunch of the munitorum crates terrain, so that plus this will create really good verticality and lots of hiding spots for big games, even up to 3x3 I imagine!
Sabotage! wrote: Seeing displays like that makes me really consider picking up a box, especially if that is truly only one box. I haven't looked in the rulebook from the set, and my concern would be whether all the missions in that rulebook can be played on a 2x2. If they can I will likely pull the trigger and pick up the set.
No no no, this isn't killteam. Pretty much no scenarios can be played on 2x2. And even if they can, it's going to be a small game. This has never been an optimal size for Necromunda. Ideally, you'll want to play 4x4, 4x3, 3x3 or at minimum 2x3. Maybe there are 1 or 2 scenarios that specifically mentions it can be played on 2x2, but most should be played on larger battlefields, or even specifically states larger sizes.
Sabotage! wrote: Seeing displays like that makes me really consider picking up a box, especially if that is truly only one box. I haven't looked in the rulebook from the set, and my concern would be whether all the missions in that rulebook can be played on a 2x2. If they can I will likely pull the trigger and pick up the set.
No no no, this isn't killteam. Pretty much no scenarios can be played on 2x2. And even if they can, it's going to be a small game. This has never been an optimal size for Necromunda. Ideally, you'll want to play 4x4, 4x3, 3x3 or at minimum 2x3. Maybe there are 1 or 2 scenarios that specifically mentions it can be played on 2x2, but most should be played on larger battlefields, or even specifically states larger sizes.
I kind of figured as much, though since I haven't seen the scenarios in the Dark Uprising starter rulebook I didn't know. I know a lot of the Zone Mortalis scenarios from the normal rulebook are played with between 4-6 tiles (which is roughly 2x2 to 2x3), but I'm not certain with the new scenarios. If you can't play the rulebook scenarios with the terrain in the box, I'd rather skip it and just pick up much cheaper walls for my ZM tiles.
Baxx wrote: While the photos illustrate a well of possibilities, I doubt you can do much with just a single box of Dark Uprising. Gonna need multiple boxes of terrain to do stuff like that?
According to a user on Reddit, this is one box worth of terrain (and he still hadn't done the barricades):
Spoiler:
Looks like a great Killteam Killzone. Use the Truehawk environment and tactics from Rogue Trader and you can fight a good boarding action. The Sector Mechanicus and Sector Munitorium stuff looks like it will really flesh it out as engineering sections and cargo bays.
I want the terrain, but I only want to get the box if I can unload the rest of the Necromunda stuff.
Sabotage! wrote: Seeing displays like that makes me really consider picking up a box, especially if that is truly only one box. I haven't looked in the rulebook from the set, and my concern would be whether all the missions in that rulebook can be played on a 2x2. If they can I will likely pull the trigger and pick up the set.
No no no, this isn't killteam. Pretty much no scenarios can be played on 2x2. And even if they can, it's going to be a small game. This has never been an optimal size for Necromunda. Ideally, you'll want to play 4x4, 4x3, 3x3 or at minimum 2x3. Maybe there are 1 or 2 scenarios that specifically mentions it can be played on 2x2, but most should be played on larger battlefields, or even specifically states larger sizes.
I kind of figured as much, though since I haven't seen the scenarios in the Dark Uprising starter rulebook I didn't know. I know a lot of the Zone Mortalis scenarios from the normal rulebook are played with between 4-6 tiles (which is roughly 2x2 to 2x3), but I'm not certain with the new scenarios. If you can't play the rulebook scenarios with the terrain in the box, I'd rather skip it and just pick up much cheaper walls for my ZM tiles.
The Dark Uprising book makes no reference that I can see to a maximum or minimum size of a Zone Mortalis board for the missions. It says 'each player places a 12" terrain square' with varying requirements, but no minimum or maximum number. Sector Mechanicus does have a recommended size at 4'x4'.
This is probably because with zone mortalis and doors, the fighting can afford to be more claustrophobic, whereas in Sector Mechanicus, you can have more open spaces and more sparse cover.
Sabotage! wrote: Seeing displays like that makes me really consider picking up a box, especially if that is truly only one box. I haven't looked in the rulebook from the set, and my concern would be whether all the missions in that rulebook can be played on a 2x2. If they can I will likely pull the trigger and pick up the set.
No no no, this isn't killteam. Pretty much no scenarios can be played on 2x2. And even if they can, it's going to be a small game. This has never been an optimal size for Necromunda. Ideally, you'll want to play 4x4, 4x3, 3x3 or at minimum 2x3. Maybe there are 1 or 2 scenarios that specifically mentions it can be played on 2x2, but most should be played on larger battlefields, or even specifically states larger sizes.
I kind of figured as much, though since I haven't seen the scenarios in the Dark Uprising starter rulebook I didn't know. I know a lot of the Zone Mortalis scenarios from the normal rulebook are played with between 4-6 tiles (which is roughly 2x2 to 2x3), but I'm not certain with the new scenarios. If you can't play the rulebook scenarios with the terrain in the box, I'd rather skip it and just pick up much cheaper walls for my ZM tiles.
The Dark Uprising book makes no reference that I can see to a maximum or minimum size of a Zone Mortalis board for the missions. It says 'each player places a 12" terrain square' with varying requirements, but no minimum or maximum number. Sector Mechanicus does have a recommended size at 4'x4'.
This is probably because with zone mortalis and doors, the fighting can afford to be more claustrophobic, whereas in Sector Mechanicus, you can have more open spaces and more sparse cover.
That's good to know. To be honest I have played quite a few ZM games with 4 or 5 tiles, and they still felt like fun, engaging games. The claustrophobic setting does really prevent gangs from going whole hog and blasting everyone apart right away. I'll see what kind of deals I can wrangle up.
Baxx wrote: While the photos illustrate a well of possibilities, I doubt you can do much with just a single box of Dark Uprising. Gonna need multiple boxes of terrain to do stuff like that?
According to a user on Reddit, this is one box worth of terrain (and he still hadn't done the barricades):
Spoiler:
Looks like a great Killteam Killzone. Use the Truehawk environment and tactics from Rogue Trader and you can fight a good boarding action. The Sector Mechanicus and Sector Munitorium stuff looks like it will really flesh it out as engineering sections and cargo bays.
I want the terrain, but I only want to get the box if I can unload the rest of the Necromunda stuff.
This is what I picked up Dark Uprising for... a new, multi-level Killzone. I already unloaded the gangs locally and hope to let go of the rulebook, dice, cards & stuff too (which might leave me paying just USD $85-95 for all the terrain).
It'll be good when the zone mortalis terrain is sold separately. Will probably be a while, but when it is it'll be easier to get a hold of just the terrain you want to expand into whatever size game you want.
My copy came in today and I've managed to get two columns and a long wall put together. I thought the magnet slots were for connecting the walls to the columns, but the walls don't have slots on the edges (except for one or two) - so I guess the magnets are more for attaching the accessories (computer terminals, pipes, etc)?
I'm also a little disappointed that you get 6 sprues of columns (12 columns total), but only 2 sprues of everything else (except doors, which you only get one of). I guess you need more columns, since they are kind of the linchpin the whole set is built around, but I feel like doubling up on Dark Uprising boxes will give you way too many columns for the amount of walls you'll end up with. I guess we'll see what it's like once everything is put together...
My other disappointment, and I'm probably the only person who wanted this, but I wish it had pre-made cards for the various fighters like Underhive did. I know people were disappointed with the loadouts of the Underhive gangs, but I think it helps for a starter box to have a little handholding through the choice-paralysis inducing character creation phase. But at $290, this isn't a starter box for people who don't want to have to work for it.
Kanluwen wrote: Worth mentioning, IMO, that while it doesn't have 'premade cards'--the actual instructions for building the guys seemed to handle that side of things.
Sort of. Because of the odd sprue count, it doesn't work out perfectly for Dark Uprising (Enforcers have 10 examples for 5 guys and CGC has 10 examples for 15 guys). It's better than nothing.
Also, I wish they'd label what the guns are. I have not managed to memorize the appearance of every single weapon in 40k, so trying to tell a lasgun from a lascarbine on a model is not easy, even when they do give you picture references in books (which is not always). Trying to reverse engineer what each model is equipping (not to mention guessing the wargear) is possible, but not trivial. Would it kill them to write in the instructions, "Rivet Gun", "Lascarbine", or "Stabby Stabby Pointy Murder Stick"?
My other disappointment, and I'm probably the only person who wanted this, but I wish it had pre-made cards for the various fighters like Underhive did. I know people were disappointed with the loadouts of the Underhive gangs, but I think it helps for a starter box to have a little handholding through the choice-paralysis inducing character creation phase. But at $290, this isn't a starter box for people who don't want to have to work for it.
Oh no, please no pre-made cards! I get that they're useful for quick games, but the execution is always a disaster. Pre-made cards from GW tends to have incorrect fighter stats, weapon profiles, skills and costs. Every book that has fighter cards for hired guns are incorrect. Book of Perils, Book of Judgement, Book of Ruin... Even the deck sold separately with some of the hired guns was incorrect, making the deck either useless or a lot of work to correct all the mistakes.
Kanluwen wrote: Worth mentioning, IMO, that while it doesn't have 'premade cards'--the actual instructions for building the guys seemed to handle that side of things.
Sort of. Because of Also, I wish they'd label what the guns are. I have not managed to memorize the appearance of every single weapon in 40k, so trying to tell a lasgun from a lascarbine on a model is not easy, even when they do give you picture references in books (which is not always). Trying to reverse engineer what each model is equipping (not to mention guessing the wargear) is possible, but not trivial. Would it kill them to write in the instructions, "Rivet Gun", "Lascarbine", or "Stabby Stabby Pointy Murder Stick"?
I know most of the standard weapons by heart, like auto/las/bolt pistol/gun/cannon. But all these new variants are confusing. Good thing about that is, if nobody knows exactly the difference between a suppression laser and a las carbine or butcher-heavy-this with chain-heavy-that you can use both for anything without proxying or worrying about WYSIWYG.
Even more revelations (wait 'til you see the last one!).
Spoiler:
Zone Mortalis Tip No13... There are two hatch options, one is Necromunda themed and the other is more standard looking (suitable for 40k or Heresy games). A ladder can also slot into the underside of the hatch platform.
Zone Mortalis Tip No14...There was a slight re-design with the doors; appearing to slide horizontal rather than vertically. The open door can be seen in the door frame when the door open. Doors also locate on the tiles.
Zone Mortalis Tip No15... the Tectonic Fragdrill feels right at home in the underhive...
I know a lot of people in here boo and hiss at MDF, but if you like the idea, but don't mind the lesser detail, you can build a similar table for cheap.
I'd also recommend Death Ray Design's zone mortalis copy. It's more expensive than TT Combat's but I think it looks much more detailed and has a wide range of pieces to vary up your battlefield.
I know a lot of people in here boo and hiss at MDF, but if you like the idea, but don't mind the lesser detail, you can build a similar table for cheap.
I was just looking at this and I think It's going to be perfect for me. I just picked up a DU set since I found one at a price I was happy to pay, but I had already preordered the gangs and rulebook (which will probably all hit up Ebay), and the rulebook included a game mat with it. I figure with the terrain in the set and one set of this kit I should have enough terrain for 5-7 tiles after I cut up my second mat into four tiles. The price is really reasonable and It looks like it will match in really well with the GW stuff.
I know a lot of people in here boo and hiss at MDF, but if you like the idea, but don't mind the lesser detail, you can build a similar table for cheap.
Yodhrin wrote: Yeah, but whether that's actually a good deal or not depends on how important you consider terrain to a great game experience.
For me, it's vital, and MDF just can't compare.
Well, it depends on how you're assigning importance.
I also consider terrain vital, but specifically for its gameplay (and game balance) improving qualities. For those considerations MDF terrain is indistinguishable from fully 3D sculpted terrain (as would be cardboard terrain, or even an exhaustively thought-through system of fully 2D terrain painted directly onto the flat gaming surface). As long as the terrain system is doing things like blocking LoS, providing cover, restricting movement, etc. my needs are being met.
You seem to be specifically concerned about aesthetic pleasure.
Well, it depends on how you're assigning importance.
I also consider terrain vital, but specifically for its gameplay (and game balance) improving qualities. For those considerations MDF terrain is indistinguishable from fully 3D sculpted terrain (as would be cardboard terrain, or even an exhaustively thought-through system of fully 2D terrain painted directly onto the flat gaming surface). As long as the terrain system is doing things like blocking LoS, providing cover, restricting movement, etc. my needs are being met.
You seem to be specifically concerned about aesthetic pleasure.
This is a hobby with 3D miniatures, not tokens, pennies, or wooden dowels. The spatial aesthetic is a fundamental part of the experience. That's why we aren't in a forum dedicated to wooden dowel games discussing the best ways to transport our blocks of wood.
I have been assembling Zone Mortalis bits from Dark Uprising for last two days and I have to say that I really like them. The design is clever and they are easy to build. That being said, if you are looking forward to combine them with Sector Mechanicus or Sector Imperialis pieces, you should prepare to be disappointed. Zone Imperialis has its own geometry rules that it follows perfectly but the only compatible dimensions with Sector Mechanicus are height of double walls and thickness of walkways.
Being mostly incompatible with previous terrain doesn't matter to me because the style is different anyway. I find Mechanicus scenery a bit oversized compared to miniatures, Zone Mortalis on the other hand is spot on.
Well, it depends on how you're assigning importance.
I also consider terrain vital, but specifically for its gameplay (and game balance) improving qualities. For those considerations MDF terrain is indistinguishable from fully 3D sculpted terrain (as would be cardboard terrain, or even an exhaustively thought-through system of fully 2D terrain painted directly onto the flat gaming surface). As long as the terrain system is doing things like blocking LoS, providing cover, restricting movement, etc. my needs are being met.
You seem to be specifically concerned about aesthetic pleasure.
This is a hobby with 3D miniatures, not tokens, pennies, or wooden dowels. The spatial aesthetic is a fundamental part of the experience. That's why we aren't in a forum dedicated to wooden dowel games discussing the best ways to transport our blocks of wood.
That aside I do agree with the actual substance of the post. Having some sort of terrain that looks decent is a big part of the appeal of miniature gaming, it help a lot with the immersion and is part of what differentiates miniature games from war gaming board games that have grids with chits on them. That said I don’t need terrain to be absolutely oozing with detail, in fact I often dislike when it is because it takes forever to paint. For the most part MDF looks pretty good to me once finished, though I do hate assembling and painting it.
jullevi wrote: That being said, if you are looking forward to combine them with Sector Mechanicus or Sector Imperialis pieces, you should prepare to be disappointed.
jullevi wrote: That being said, if you are looking forward to combine them with Sector Mechanicus or Sector Imperialis pieces, you should prepare to be disappointed.
You sure about that?
Spoiler:
That is really nifty, I might actually pick up a bit of mechanicus stuff to add variety after the holidays.
I was mostly interested in this terrain in order to recreate the FW ZM tiles and the card versions from the (soon to be) old boxed game. But the more 3D options are really interesting. Especially when combined with the other sets.
I've finished building all the walls, and to be honest, I felt like it was a little plain at first. But after I did the stairs, elevators, and railings, it really started to look awesome. I'm sure once I get around to the doors and pipes (and magnetize it all), it'll really pop. The stairs are easily the best feature of the kit.
I was a little disappointed that you need to glue the floor pieces. There's no way to use them without glue, so you need to lock in how you'll use them early on. Also, the way the floors connect, you can really only build the 9 squares centered on a pillar (it's all centered on a circular pillar tile, with T-shaped tiles coming off it, and L-shaped tiles for the corners). So, those 9 tiles (pillar in middle, up to four small walls in a plus shape, up to 9 tiles of floors) become the basic building block for whatever you want to make.
For instance, you can have the stairs go around a pillar, but not go through where the pillar would be. This is because the stairs connect to a tab found in the L-shaped tiles. More than that, the tiles are different sizes. The column tile and the T-shape tiles are larger than the L-shaped tiles by about half an inch. The stairs fit in the large tile area, not the small ones.
I was very surprised by this. I don't know why, but I expected all the tiles to be the same size. Just a simple grid. But this is not the case, with the foundational tessellating piece being the 3x3 tiles centered on the column rather than an individual tile. This is actually good because it makes for stronger structures. The columns are load bearing. There's not really a way to "skip" over a column.
The end result is that the ZM system is both less and more open than I thought it was. Your basic building block is larger than I expected, but you have a lot of freedom in how you make it, and everything kind of magically fits together (even when you didn't plan for it). It's actually kind of genius.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can you "surround" a pillar? ie, the pillar is in the centre, and there are 8 squares around it?
Sort of. There's three sizes of tiles in a 3x3 section.. The pillar tile in the middle is 2.25" square (which the pillar takes up completely). The small tiles are 1.88" square. Then the tiles which make up the plus shape have pillar tiles along one axis, and small tiles along the other - making it 2.25" x 1.88" rectangles.
The short wall tiles actually fit within the smaller 1.88" square (they are 1.88" x 1.75"). So, you can technically surround a pillar with short walls, but the short walls only lock in place adjacent to the pillars on the ZM tiles, and only in one direction, so the walls you put in the corner will move around. They will also have about a quarter inch of extra space on each side. So, I'm going to say you can technically surround a pillar, but it isn't really designed for it.
jullevi wrote: That being said, if you are looking forward to combine them with Sector Mechanicus or Sector Imperialis pieces, you should prepare to be disappointed.
You sure about that?
Spoiler:
I think that the point is that Sector Mechanicus stuff doesn't have the same width (the walkways are wider than zone mortalis ones) or length as ZM does. SecMec pieces starting safely on a bare spot on one tile (since they don't mesh with the ZM floor tiles) can't be relied upon to end on a bare spot on another tile. You can't plan on a SecMec Walkway extending the same increment as a ZM single or double wall, or wall+pillar, or pillar+wall+pillar.
A lot of the 'incompatibility' between SecMec and ZM goes away if you don't use the (admittedly very cool) new ZM floor tiles. If the floor isn't divided up into pillar squares, wall rows, and open squares, then it becomes a lot more reasonable to just put stuff where it looks good!
But that does put people in a bad spot with how to run ZM scenarios in Necromunda--but GW has already done that. They are evidently taking the card tiles out of production, and the ONLY other tiles available are the ZM ones, which are hugely pricey, out of stock right now, and which will require at least 2 sets for any ZM Necromunda scenario, plus probably needing WAAAAAAAAY more than 1 (or even 2) sets of ZM walls and pillars to play.
It's ironic. The new ZONE MORTALIS stuff is really, really not friendly or convenient for making Zone Mortalis games, either in Necromunda, or, god forbid, Horus Heresy, but it's freaking sweet for doing multilevel games in Necromunda, Horus Heresy, or 40K.
Yeah, fair enough. I wasn't planning on getting any of the plastic tiles. I was going to have them free-standing, and incorporate as much as possible with the SecMec pieces.
If the plastic tiles had been the same thickness as the SecMec walkways, or even just the ZM walkways, I might have considered it as it'd be a great way of making large platforms without the need to use precious, precious SecMec straight walkways. But it's got a hollow interior that won't work.
NAVARRO wrote: Cant you just file away the tiles bits that lock the walls?
You can, but then you're removing the only thing that differentiates them from just getting a realm of battle board (if you want a textured board) or a gaming mat. The only reason I can see to buy the ZM tiles is if you really want to make sure that ZM walls and pillars lock into good, rigid formations. They seem fantastic for that, but unnecessary and possibly even counterproductive for other purposes.
If the floor tiles weren't so pricey, that wouldn't be as much of an issue.
The regular enforcers kit has been sold out on the US site for a little while. I hope they release the CGC individually soon, so people can expand their gangs. (I also wonder if they will get their own dice and card pack). I was hoping they'd be out for christmas at the latest so I could maybe get a couple boxes as a gift. I'm hoping to see them show up this sunday on the up for pre order next week posting.
Thargrim wrote: The regular enforcers kit has been sold out on the US site for a little while. I hope they release the CGC individually soon, so people can expand their gangs. (I also wonder if they will get their own dice and card pack). I was hoping they'd be out for christmas at the latest so I could maybe get a couple boxes as a gift. I'm hoping to see them show up this sunday on the up for pre order next week posting.
We have the schedule through December 16th, and sadly they weren't listed
Thargrim wrote: The regular enforcers kit has been sold out on the US site for a little while. I hope they release the CGC individually soon, so people can expand their gangs. (I also wonder if they will get their own dice and card pack). I was hoping they'd be out for christmas at the latest so I could maybe get a couple boxes as a gift. I'm hoping to see them show up this sunday on the up for pre order next week posting.
We have the schedule through December 16th, and sadly they weren't listed
SOMEONE SAID MOROOROROORODDHEHHEEIIEIEIIIMMRMMRMEMEMEMMEM !!!!
If you take every card that isn't specific to a gang, and you stack them up- they're taller than a soda can. Someone had the bright idea to make most of the gang card boxes come with different cards.
If you take every card that isn't specific to a gang, and you stack them up- they're taller than a soda can. Someone had the bright idea to make most of the gang card boxes come with different cards.
The worst thing is that the official way to use the cards is still to take every single generic one and then the 12 or so gang specific cards and draw 2 to 4 of them for each game. First of all, no one has every single card, and even if they did, that is a terrible way to create a tactics deck since most of them are super-specific.
That's what I do, except I put all 204 cards (soon to be 205) into a single deck which me and my friends all draw from. My friends don't have any cards, so it is an easy solution to share. If we draw a card for a different gang, we simply discard it and draw another.
They could definitely do more with the tactics cards. At this point, it just isn't practical to have a random choice from so many cards. You'd need, at the minimum, some sort of drafting mechanic or deck building rules to create a 10-20 card campaign deck, and then draw your random cards from that.
Maybe integrate it into the campaign, such that you can purchase new cards (or draw three, keep one) to add to your card deck, or even tie specific cards to unit upgrades or skills?
I like the cards - both as a gameplay device (tactics), a rules reference (unit cards, territory cards), and as a product to buy and collect. I wish they had more card sets, and more types of cards... but holy crap, they need to stay in print for more than six hours! And they've released cards that were GW online store exclusive, so I couldn't pick them up when I bought everything else from that wave - What's the shipping cost on a $15 pack of cards?
(Blood Bowl is the same way, except that having so much of the game being out of print and unavailable has made me stay away from the game. You don't need all the cards or pitches to play, but not even having the option disgusts me. I wouldn't blame players for avoiding Necromunda for the same reasons).
I like some cards. 50 cards are better than 10. 200+ cards are not better than 100 cards. It's out of control. They release "new" cards with same name as existing cards. And "new" cards with same exact effect as previous cards. I enjoy the cards, I have all of them (except 1), but the quality and balance is awful. Also unable to use any of the campaign resource cards (territory/rackets) because it's in a very strict format not compatible with how we always played Necromunda (loosely organized without any arbitrators). Even if I have all cards, I prefer to print them in magic card size for easier sleeving and storage and transport with fancy magic deck boxes. Blood Bowl keeps pushing out cards (more incoming next week!), but they stopped selling sleeves a year ago. For Blood Bowl, we got a total of 184 cards (so far).
As someone who is just now trying to get my buddies into Necromunda.
The card support is awful. If the cards were reprinted in a book and the cards were just convenience that would go a long way towards "Well this isn't so bad"
But having players with cards that other players may not even know exists is just meh.
The major gripe I have with Necromunda is the cards.
If you look up the specific size of these cards for card sleeves, the size is not even a number- it's a drawing of a middle finger with a GW logo on a gold ring.
And if you play a campaign, you'll see how important those Underdog cards are. Without them, it's really easy for one person to get so far ahead that there's no point in continuing without doing some real borderline-scummy arbitrator actions to slow someone down (essentially, using fiat to punish someone who's not even really doing anything wrong). And GW apparently made 5 decks of those, and just deleted them from the hard drive.
Even gang cards are a pain to find.
You can say "you don't need them to play", but some gangs are built specifically with their cards as a part of their balancing features (Delaque, namely).
They could, at the very least, make a chart or something that you could roll on, sort of like Tactical Objectives in the back of a Codex.
The card sleeves are 78 x 113 mm, and you can get a pack from Sleeve Kings off Amazon of 100 for about $3 (plus shipping). They are thinner than GW's Necromunda sleeves, but you can get about 300 of them for the price of 50 GW sleeves.
But otherwise, yes, I think we can all agree that GW is dropping the ball when it comes to the cards... for every one of their games.
I don't think Necromunda is quite as bad off as something like Warcry, which had no legitimate way to play 9 factions in the game for the past six months because the rule cards were out of print. And instead of just reprinting the damn things, they are putting them in a book... and releasing another batch of limited release cards instead!
Sqorgar wrote: But otherwise, yes, I think we can all agree that GW is dropping the ball when it comes to the cards... for every one of their games.
If you can find me card sleeves that actually fit the Discovery/Resource/Legacy/etc. cards in Blackstone Fortress (without me having to sit and cut large strips of plastic excess)- I will actually kiss you right on the mouth. Or I won't kiss you right on the mouth. Pick the one that leverages you the most.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: If you can find me card sleeves that actually fit the Discovery/Resource/Legacy/etc. cards in Blackstone Fortress (without me having to sit and cut large strips of plastic excess)
Wish I could help. I don't think anybody makes sleeves that are 57x75mm. What I did was use the USA bridge-sized cards (FFG green, 57x90mm), which fits it perfectly width-wise. There's about a half inch of excess, but the cards are usable like that without needing trimming. It's the best I've been able to come up with, but far from an optimal solution. One day, I'm just going to get one of those paper cutters - you know, the ones with the big bladed arm - and just cut the sleeves down, a dozen at a time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's almost as if GW designed their card sizes to be different from industry standards...
While there are a lot of things GW does that is reminiscent (or worse) of Microsoft during their prime, this seems more to me that GW just doesn't know what the industry standards are and doesn't care to find out. They probably started using a weird card size decades ago for some long forgotten specialist game or something and just never realized. Or they are just cheap and realized that they could print 30% more cards on a single sheet if they made them 30% shorter.
Since GW's printing woes apply to every paper-based product they make, regardless of size, at least we can say that the weird sizes they use aren't the reason why these things disappear from print. It's easier to live with weird sizes and unsleeved cards when the cards aren't imaginary.
And what a ridiculous FAQ it is! Blasts and Templates are now x-ray vision and ignores smoke and Pitch Black. You're supposed to add Toxin to some weapon on a fighter card which already have Toxin. The copy-paste errors on the special character fighter card weapon profiles are "intentional".
At least Smoke is Blast finally. Took them 2 years!
Not enough handcuffs to arrest my genestealer cult leader accompanied by a whole zoo of pets: 3 familiars, 2 graplehawks, 1 caryatid, 1 hacked cyber mastiff, 1 gyrinx cat and infinite amount of giant rats
Yes sir! Particularly difficult this time, as many of the answers are incorrect or confusing. For example this one:
PAGE 25 - MIND-LOCKED WYRD SPECIAL RULES Replace the second sentence of the PYROMANCY – SCOURING (BASIC) entry as follows: For as long as this Wyrd Power is maintained, the psyker counts as being armed with the following weapon:
I can't go back to this awful messy version (that we had many times before). It was actually fixed in book of ruin! But now, the FAQ persists in keeping old not functional rule for Scouring. "While maintained"? It's not even Continuous Effect (anymore)!
Another problem is with Unstable Grenades. You have 50% chance of going Out of Action each time you throw a Plasma Grenade. This is suicide grenade, not plasma grenade!
That answer reeks of revulsion. "You have to pay for things you wish to purchase"? Come one, that's not even part of the question! So we pay to purchase the weapons, not hire? Take the weapons back after the battle then.
"I'm Gaz Makari, famed Bounty Hunter of Seven Sump City."
"Oh yes, we've heard of you. Your exploits are known across several domes."
"Thank you. I heard that you're in the market for some extra muscle?"
"Very much so. Those Goliath boys have been kicking our asses back and forth between trading posts. We need a big gun to help us keep them at bay."
"I've got a modest hire fee."
"That we're happy to pay... err... you don't seem to be carrying any weapons."
"Never do. My employers always pay for my guns."
"Umm... so I have to buy your guns?"
"Sure do."
"And when you leave?"
"The guns leave with me."
"And yet you haven't kept any."
"The Underhive is a mysterious place..."
PAGE 42 - MODELS & FIGHTER CARDS Needler: Add the ‘Toxin’ trait. - Guess what, the weapon already got Toxin! PAGE 25 - MIND-LOCKED WYRD SPECIAL RULES Replace the second sentence of the PYROMANCY – SCOURING (BASIC) entry as follows: For as long as this Wyrd Power is maintained, the psyker counts as being armed with the following weapon: -This is the wrong version of Scouring! "While maintained" and not Continuous Effect? Come on, it's already been fixed in Book of Ruin! PAGE 31 - PALANITE CAPTAIN (LEADER) & PALANITE SERGEANT (CHAMPION) Add ‘Magnacles’ to the EQUIPMENT entry for both the Palanite and the Enforcer. PAGE 32 - PALANITE PATROLMAN (GANGER) & PALANITE ROOKIE PATROLMAN (JUVE) Add ‘Magnacles’ to the EQUIPMENT entry for both the Palanite and the Enforcer. -Palanite & Enforcer? Why introduce Subjugators if you can't name them correctly? PAGE 108 - CLOSE COMBAT WEAPONS "Whisperbane Knife: Change the Acc: S characteristic from ‘+1’ to ‘-’ and change the Acc: L characteristic from ‘-’ to ‘+1’." -This weapon actually got a +2 hit modiifer. The previous errata entry weapon actually had a +1 hit modifier. Copy-paste? PAGE 47 (UPRISING RULEBOOK) - ADVANCEMENT TABLE Amend the second row as follows: Improve the fighter’s Leadership or Cool characteristic by 1. -There is no advancement table on page 47 (Uprising rulebook). Probably copy-pasted from an earlier errata entry for the Underhive rulebook. What they really should fix is that awful error in Ganger Advancement table they copied from Gang War 1 (Uprising Rulebook page 63). Where WS/BS give +5 gang rating and Willpower/Intelligence give +20.
You're the only person in the world who cares so much about that one issue.
I have to believe it comes down to a psychological bias/preference for neatness and tidiness, and not a legitimate objection to the balance/gameplay/clarity ramifications of those bespoke character items.
I don't so much mind that you can fire blast/flame weapons past smoke. Of all the weapons that people would fire into areas they can't see, those two seem like the right fit.
As for special characters getting unique weapons? That's not really a big deal.
The errata for melee attacks telling you that ranged attacks miss on a 1. That's a bigger deal.
You're the only person in the world who cares so much about that one issue.
I have to believe it comes down to a psychological bias/preference for neatness and tidiness, and not a legitimate objection to the balance/gameplay/clarity ramifications of those bespoke character items.
Want to make it personal? Clarity is you hit me with weapon x, I can know what that means. Now it is insufficient, you need to know weapon x and attacking fighter y to uniquely identify effect. You never been to yaktribe? Cause I'm clearly not the only one.
Is it worth making multiple versions of a weapon when we already have 100 close combat weapons to choose from? Is it so important for this single bounty hunter special character to have increased accuracy on the knife only? Is it a disaster to simply give +1 WS and that would also affect a single attack with a pistol?
Yeah this isn't the biggest issue with the rules, but it's utterly needless confusion when they could just put "Character Name's Weapon" rather than just "Weapon (random changes to said weapon's standard profile)". It also muddies the water with actual errors, because it's harder to tell when they're making a mistake and when they're making an intentional change.
Q. In the Bounty Hunters entry, it says Bounty Hunters may purchase up to 150 credits worth of weapons and Wargear.
Do I have to pay for this?
A. Yes, you have to pay for things you wish to purchase
Hey look at that I was right.
Hired guns are completely useless.
"Well, thanks for the passive-aggresive bs answer, GW, but as I'm not purchasing anything but getting stuff for a hired gun that I'm, well, hiring, I'll read your answer as "you don't have to pay" and keep using them instead of making them useless. Thanks!"
You're the only person in the world who cares so much about that one issue.
I have to believe it comes down to a psychological bias/preference for neatness and tidiness, and not a legitimate objection to the balance/gameplay/clarity ramifications of those bespoke character items.
He's not the only one who cares. It might not be the worst problem with the game, but it's certainly the one that adds in the more uncertainty, for no gain that I can see.
Q. In the Bounty Hunters entry, it says Bounty Hunters may purchase up to 150 credits worth of weapons and Wargear.
Do I have to pay for this?
A. Yes, you have to pay for things you wish to purchase
Hey look at that I was right.
Hired guns are completely useless.
Yeah, this one is off-the-charts stupid.
Why the hell would you ever hire a bounty hunter if he came with no weapons or wargear?
Why would you buy weapons and wargear for a hireling, rather than for a ganger?
Why say that the bounty hunter may purchase things? With what? The credits he doesn't have? Do you give him credits and HE visits the trading post?
If you really are supposed to be spending your credits on your useless Bounty Hunter, why are you limited to throwing away only 150 of them? Why not let us flush more credits down the toilet.
It's like someone decided "I'm tired of answering FAQs. If I provide mind-bogglingly stupid answers, maybe people will just stop asking."
"I'm Gaz Makari, famed Bounty Hunter of Seven Sump City."
"Oh yes, we've heard of you. Your exploits are known across several domes."
"Thank you. I heard that you're in the market for some extra muscle?"
"Very much so. Those Goliath boys have been kicking our asses back and forth between trading posts. We need a big gun to help us keep them at bay."
"I've got a modest hire fee."
"That we're happy to pay... err... you don't seem to be carrying any weapons."
"Never do. My employers always pay for my guns."
"Umm... so I have to buy your guns?"
"Sure do."
"And when you leave?"
"The guns leave with me."
"And yet you haven't kept any."
"The Underhive is a mysterious place..."
I’d bet most people will...come up with some sort of houserule to fix this?
I agree they are too expensive for what they are. However, fluff wise, they aren’t showing up without weapons, they are charging a kit fee for the employer’s use of those weapons.
The original game had a much better and more logical hired gun fee. The fee for generic scums and bh are fixed to 15 and 35, the logic is that they are 1/5 of the value of the fighters.
But ofcourse, newmunda rule writer with galaxy brain denounced all that and come up with the superior rule. Nobody were using them when they come out, and nobody will be using them now since alliance is a thing.
Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.
The risk is that they will leave, but they only leave for sure if they make money from killing an enemy fighter AND capture a fighter (which has a 50% chance of being an outlaw, and you have to choose to sell that fighter to the guilders). If only one of these things happen, they have a 50% chance of leaving. In either case, the bounty hunter will have made some money for you before he leaves (maybe a lot). If neither happen, the bounty hunter sticks around for free. If he is around and doesn't get used in the next mission, he leaves.
Am I missing something or interpreting the rules incorrectly? It seems to me that the bounty hunter is a risk-reward thing. You can hire a good unit cheap, but he might go away if you start doing too well. He might even make your money back.
So when you buy 150 credits worth of equipment for him, you are basically making a bet on his usefulness. How much do you want to invest in this unit? What kind of return do I think I can get with him?
They cost that 80+150 credits per game. Considering those are the normal prices a regular gang member would be paid for a whole campaign, with much reduced odds of them just wandering off with all that kit?
You can get two fighters for the cost of a bounty hunter. They won't be as skilled as the bounty hunter, but they'll stick around after one game, and can get better over time, and help your gang out over time.
Sqorgar wrote: Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.
The risk is that they will leave, but they only leave for sure if they make money from killing an enemy fighter AND capture a fighter (which has a 50% chance of being an outlaw, and you have to choose to sell that fighter to the guilders). If only one of these things happen, they have a 50% chance of leaving. In either case, the bounty hunter will have made some money for you before he leaves (maybe a lot). If neither happen, the bounty hunter sticks around for free. If he is around and doesn't get used in the next mission, he leaves.
Am I missing something or interpreting the rules incorrectly? It seems to me that the bounty hunter is a risk-reward thing. You can hire a good unit cheap, but he might go away if you start doing too well. He might even make your money back.
So when you buy 150 credits worth of equipment for him, you are basically making a bet on his usefulness. How much do you want to invest in this unit? What kind of return do I think I can get with him?
Most people would find a better use with 100+ credit in hand, instead of hiring a guy that may claim chump change from ill-equipped fighters.
Although there're always been a good application for the hired guns, as a win-more, ambush-assited unit for the leading gangs, or deep in the campaign when you no longer need to upgrade or recruit more gangers.
Yeah Bounty Hunters are either house ruled to be usable, or simply not used. They can however join a battle for free (and free is useful!). Can be granted if playing against Rogue Factoria alliance, Life Coin Exchange (Racket), Guild Bonds (Racket, Outlaw), Emergency Sanctioning (Uprising campaign events) and House Patronage (underdog bonus).
Sqorgar wrote: Help me understand the bounty hunter complaints. I haven't played with them, but they don't seem to be a terrible deal. They cost 80 credits (plus weapons), have a champion/leader-level statline, can carry 5 weapons, gets 3 skills, and can't die/get lasting injuries.
Carrying 5 weapons is more of a fluff ability than an actual advantage in the game. You could let everyone carry as many weapons as they want, don't make them more competitive or unbalanced. The days of backup guns are long gone unfortunately. To be competitive, you only need 1-2 weapons, preferably plasma gun and preferably master-crafted. Any weapons beyond that is mostly bloat.
Mr_Rose wrote:They cost that 80+150 credits per game. Considering those are the normal prices a regular gang member would be paid for a whole campaign, with much reduced odds of them just wandering off with all that kit?
They cost 80 with UP TO 150 credits in equipment. You can choose less/cheaper equipment to reduce their cost.
The real question is if you get to keep the equipment after the bounty hunter leaves. You can't add equipment to the card, but it doesn't say whether the bounty hunter leaves with the equipment (unless I'm missing something). You can either look at it as, I'm paying extra for a better equipped bounty hunter, or I'm paying extra for the equipment, which I'm gonna keep because I paid for the things.
H.B.M.C. wrote:You can get two fighters for the cost of a bounty hunter. They won't be as skilled as the bounty hunter, but they'll stick around after one game, and can get better over time, and help your gang out over time.
Bounty hunters will almost certainly stick around for more than one game. There's three triggers for them leaving:
1) They participate in a battle where an enemy fighter is killed. Not injured. Not taken out of action. Killed. While it can happen, it doesn't happen every mission. Even then, as long as you don't also sell a wanted captive that mission, the bounty hunter has a 50% chance of sticking around.
2) They capture an enemy fighter, that fighter is a wanted outlaw, AND they sell that captured fighter to the guilders. Since you can choose whether or not to sell a captured fighter to guilders (you can sell them back to your opponent or just hold on to them for a while), this trigger is up to you. You could potentially sell multiple captured fighters during a single aftermath sequence, thus gaining the value of all their credits plus 10-60 extra credits each without changing your bounty hunter leave chance beyond the flat 50%.
3) You have the bounty hunter available for a mission and choose not to bring them. This can get you if you have too many models and you get a random selection mission, I guess.
It seems that, unless you are very unlucky or don't manage your bounty hunter well, you can get multiple missions out of them.
Chopstick wrote:Most people would find a better use with 100+ credit in hand, instead of hiring a guy that may claim chump change from ill-equipped fighters.
I would think a bounty hunter would be useful in some cases. The ability to select the stat line, plus being able to buy rare 10 weapons off the bat, plus getting 3 random skills (or 1 random + 1 selected) means that you can create a very specific fighter that is going to be better than most champions right out the gate. Champions might be better after leveling up a few times, but if it is near the end of the game with limited leveling up opportunities, there's no reason not to go with a bounty hunter. And maybe you build a specific bounty hunter designed to go after a specific enemy unit - they can be useful for taking out high value targets with the right equipment and skills.
Plus, there are role playing opportunities with the concept of building your own bounty hunter. Give him a name and backstory, and have him show up repeatedly in different campaigns - even let your friends hire him on. He could develop into a legend among your group.
Baxx wrote:Carrying 5 weapons is more of a fluff ability than an actual advantage in the game. You could let everyone carry as many weapons as they want, don't make them more competitive or unbalanced. The days of backup guns are long gone unfortunately. To be competitive, you only need 1-2 weapons, preferably plasma gun and preferably master-crafted. Any weapons beyond that is mostly bloat.
Well, it makes them more versatile, for one, but I imagine it would be hard to get 5 different good weapons and whatever wargear you want for 150 credits. However, it makes unwieldy weapons a more attractive option when you can also carry a basic melee and ranged weapon alongside it.
Plus, there are role playing opportunities with the concept of building your own bounty hunter. Give him a name and backstory, and have him show up repeatedly in different campaigns - even let your friends hire him on. He could develop into a legend among your group.
No need to waste 100+ credit every other match just to have a shady "your dude" fighter that may or may not scam you out of all those credit for 20 credit Juve. Venator gang is a thing.
And you can also get more of those "your dudes", for free, with the alliance.
bfdhud wrote:What is peoples opinions on the 2020 Necromunda is getting releases rumor on BOLS?
What rumor? All I see is that Necromunda is getting releases in January, which isn't much of a rumor. We know the Zone Mortalis stuff is coming soon, and frankly, there's not a lot of reason to wait on independent releases for the Subjugators and Corpse Grinder Cults (there's even ads for them in the Dark Uprising box). Whether Necromunda will get something else - something NEW - remains to be seen. Personally, bring on the Zone Mortalis releases...
Chopstick wrote:No need to waste 100+ credit every other match just to have a shady "your dude" fighter that may or may not scam you out of all those credit for 20 credit Juve. Venator gang is a thing.
First of all, it won't be "every other match". That is a histrionic overreaction. Again, the bounty hunters only leave if they kill an enemy fighter during that match (which earns you half their credits) or CHOOSE to sell a captured outlaw (full credits plus 1D6x10 extra credits). They would only leave "every other match" in the worst possible circumstances. It is extremely likely they'll stick around for multiple games. In the best circumstances, they could follow you for an entire campaign and make you lots of money.
The bounty hunter will basically stick around until you earn SOME extra money that you would otherwise not get. It could be a very little bit of money or it could be quite a bit of money. That's kind of the risk with bounty hunters. They may or may not pay back their costs (and part of that will depend on how much of the 150 credits you decide to spend on equipment). They are a gamble that may pay out, if properly managed. But beyond that, you are also renting a powerful unit for numerous games, so even if you don't earn every cent back, you can still get your money's worth out of them. But it is a risk.
A brief review of "new" terrain rules content from the latest White Dwarf (December 2019).
-Lift: Free move 4" up or down during an activation, once per round. Fighters obstructing the path can be injured similarly as if caught in a closing doorway. -Stills: Explosive terrain similar to previous fire/plasma, except this triggers a "gas grenade" explosion. They probably mean choke gas grenade. -Stairs: Similar to standard falling. If pinned, fall down to the bottom. If falling more than 3", suffer a S3 hit. -Toxic sludge: Reprint (previously omitted from N18). -Doors: Reprint. Includes "Mind the Doors" (previously omitted from N18). -Floor Hatch: Reprint of Service Hatch: Crawlways. -Protein Reclamator: Reprint of Waste Compactor. -Control Panels: Reprint. Ductways: Reprint. -Pitfalls: Reprint.
Lift is a nice rule which surely would belong in the Uprising rulebook together with the actual lift terrain! Stills is a gas version of earlier explosive terrain. Stairs is similar to standard falling. The rest is nothing new. Should be more interesting content in the "Gang Raids" supplement including new scenarios (designed for playing 30 minute games).
Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...
Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?
Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...
Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?
but, all the Gangboxes have 2 Sprues inside of them? Why would Subjugators get a third sprue? :-D
Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...
Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?
But they'll come with a transfer sheet! And that alone was worth a price increase on the previous Enforcer box.
The Corpse Grinders will also be the same higher price, but without transfers, because GW.
I don’t have my boxed set to hand so can anyone check if these are the same Corpse Grinder tactics that were in Dark Uprising? The example card is Blood-Drenched Champion.
Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...
Given that Subjugators clock in at 150 credits for a Captain(before gear), 80 for a Patrolman, and 110 for a Sergeant? You're really not going to need more than one box...and at $40 for 6, they'd somehow end up cheaper than the Enforcer Patrol box.
Probably 6 enforcers for $40. Granted they have big ole shields are are basically Necromunda terminators but come one, would throwing in 1 more sprue for 9 have broken the bank...
Still need to figure out what they can count as in an IG army. Crusaders is the easy answer but maybe 2 to a base as Bullgryns?
But they'll come with a transfer sheet! And that alone was worth a price increase on the previous Enforcer box.
The Corpse Grinders will also be the same higher price, but without transfers, because GW.
The Enforcers aren’t any more than the other gangs. The price on all the others was bumped up to match. Nothing to do with the transfers, just got hit with the price increase when that happened.
Aeneades wrote: I don’t have my boxed set to hand so can anyone check if these are the same Corpse Grinder tactics that were in Dark Uprising? The example card is Blood-Drenched Champion.
We get new cards! Probably 12 general and 8 gang specific, or opposite. That should bring us up to 225 cards total (not counting underdog tactics).
Aeneades wrote: They are skimping on the hang specific ones this time
The Enforcer card pack was similar, with 4 gang-specific cards and a bunch of neutral cards. It is probably to compensate for the extra cards they got in Dark Uprising.
ImAGeek wrote: The Enforcers aren’t any more than the other gangs. The price on all the others was bumped up to match. Nothing to do with the transfers, just got hit with the price increase when that happened.
Not in my part of the world. Enforcers are AUD$4 more than other gangs, and the only difference is that they have a transfer sheet.
They'd need to completely new body for the initiate because one in the kit is really meh. They deserve a better looking kit for being the best fighter credit wise in the game.
They didn't preview them yesterday and the Enforcer Tactics Cards just came back into stock on the GW webstore, so likely reprint. They'd been unavailable since before Dark Uprising dropped here in the US.
Baxx wrote: Why they specify 26 tactics cards? No other deck has had 26 tactics cards, most common and max is 20.
Because this is the new maximum would be my guess.
It's probably 26 cards. I just remembered all their decks used to have 26 cards. Including a handful of fighter cards, so not actually 26 tactics cards, but 26 cards rather.
Tavis75 wrote: So, is the £110 box the same amount and mix of scenery sprues as the content of the Uprising box, minus the barricades sprue?
No. It basically would require another walls and columns box, minus the door sprue (so 3 more columns sprues, 1 small wall sprue, and 1 long wall sprue).
Tavis75 wrote: So, is the £110 box the same amount and mix of scenery sprues as the content of the Uprising box, minus the barricades sprue?
No. It basically would require another walls and columns box, minus the door sprue (so 3 more columns sprues, 1 small wall sprue, and 1 long wall sprue).
It would appear so. The pipes are only one full sprue (split into two half-sprues), and the image only shows pipes from one of the halves. So I guess they are only giving one half sprue of pipes.
(Edit: I misspoke. The back half of the arched pipe segment and the feet are on the second half of the sprue, which means that there should be two more long pipes as well. The picture apparently doesn't show everything in the set).
As for the value, I don't know what the actual prices are, but I've heard $80, $80, and $185 (that seems way too high to me for an extra sprue of pipes). So the big set plus another wall set would be $265, which is $25 less than Dark Uprising, which will net you an extra door sprue (you CAN have too many), but lack DU's other half of the pipe sprue, a barricade sprue, 26 miniatures, two sets of dice, rulebook, tokens, and a bunch of cards.
Looks closer to $60 for the platforms and $80 for the walls. More than I thought in my initial poat, because I was mentally translating the gbp price by real exchange ra\es rather than the fake gw ones.
The Zone Mortalis kits are available to pre-order from Saturday. If you can’t wait, the Necromunda: Dark Uprising boxed set includes all of the terrain from the Hive Warzone kit along with two gangs, a rulebook and everything else you need to play Necromunda – grab a copy here. Also, make sure you visit the Forge World Facebook page to let us know what you’re planning on building with these incredible new kits.
I can't say I'm shocked by the hefty pricetag but if it really is everything out of Dark Uprising? That's a lot of scenery in there.
My one complaint with the ZM terrain is that you pretty much have to glue the floors together, which means they become the limitation in your configuration variety. Build one 9-tile floor section, and you've basically used a whole kit. I like that the floors/stairs/elevators are separate, but even at $60, it's a bit much for how many you'd really need to buy to build a truly multi-level hive.
The Zone Mortalis kits are available to pre-order from Saturday. If you can’t wait, the Necromunda: Dark Uprising boxed set includes all of the terrain from the Hive Warzone kit along with two gangs, a rulebook and everything else you need to play Necromunda – grab a copy here. Also, make sure you visit the Forge World Facebook page to let us know what you’re planning on building with these incredible new kits.
I can't say I'm shocked by the hefty pricetag but if it really is everything out of Dark Uprising? That's a lot of scenery in there.
At the very least, Dark Uprising includes everything in the Hive Warzone kit - and possibly more. Since they didn't show all the pipes, it's possible that they didn't show all the terrain from the warzone... but it seems unlikely.
The Hive Warzone kit claims to contain 16 sprues of terrain. If so, I think that matches what was in Dark Uprising. It seems almost reasonably priced in such case.....
Sorry, missed your update to your earlier post before. Looks like I should be able to get on with the DU book at least for a bit. Now to actually create a gang...
