The catalogue page image is on a couple of pages between p213 and here.
If the Enforcers get take Cyber-Mastiffs as pets, I'm sure there's a new model in the pipeline.
Not sure what people's definition of "future cop" vs "future soldier" is, really. the John Blanche concept picture only "looks like" an Arbitrator / Enforcer because it says "Enforcer" next to it. otherwise, it could simply be another Imperial Guard regiment.
The Arbites models' main "law enforcement" feature to me was the prominent badge on the left breast, as a Judge Dredd reference, and the static pose; they're forming a line. Other than that, they're just guys in carapace armour, with design cues pointing back to old Imperial Guard heavy infantry troopers.
I think my favourite thing in it is the Venator band, the Wu-Kang gang. Although being able to knock people about with that giant skull-head crane and get some money from the archeotech ATM are close seconds.
"policing up" these guys should really be a matter of a Webber, a grenade launcher packed with Scare and a couple of riot shields. I really like the pose of the guy with a torch (flashlight for our colonial friends) in one hand and pistol in the other.
Togusa wrote: These enforcers look awesome. I've never tried out necromunda, is it like KT?
Sort of. Its more campaign orientated. Ideally, necromunda is played over a series of games, and after each game your gangers improve, and you can give them new gear. I don't think kill team has as robust and in-depth as a system.
Togusa wrote: These enforcers look awesome. I've never tried out necromunda, is it like KT?
Necromunda is less competitive, more narrative, more randomness, need some houseruling and DM to steer the campaign to make the most fun out of it.
Killteam focus on the balance side where the points system limit a team from being too strong, leveling up a dude or give him all the best gear in KT can be potentially undesirable or detrimental, while in Necromunda, you'd want the best gears and level up for your dude.
Does anyone have a picture of the 2d edition Necromunda Enforcer/ Arbite Squad? One of the things glaringly missing is the robot mastiffs.
I imagine the cyber mastiff would get a release like the Sumpkroc
They will probably just re-use the cyber mastif that came with the "imperial enforcer" event model a few years ago. Just like they re-used the rogue psyker model.
Graphite wrote: "policing up" these guys should really be a matter of a Webber, a grenade launcher packed with Scare and a couple of riot shields.
Until they meet an tooled up gang that won't go peacefully...
T
Indeed. Its actually quite fitting that a reference to US police popped up in this thread as the Enforcers have to deal with the same problems they do - heavily armed gangs who might be hopped up on drugs that may render non-lethal attempts at apprehending them ineffective.
I am near certain that the inevitable FW weapons packs for them will include riot shields though, it seems like very low hanging fruit. Plus FW likes shields.
We haven't seen the sprues yet, I would be surprised if there isn't at least one more heavy/special weapon on the sprue. Probably a webber, grenade launcher or heavy stubber I would think.
Although there are are several nice ”count as” miniatures from other companies I personally prefer Cyber Mastiffs from GW/FW. The three official sculpts mix really well (P.I.P.).
When you got big rats, you're gonna need a bigger dog...
Enforcer cyberdogs in 28 and 54mm scales vs the Rat Bastard Beastmaster (in gray) and friends:
AegisGrimm wrote: I wonder for fun games if it would work to use the robo dogs from Wild West Exodus as Enforcer Cyber mastiffs, even if they'll be a bit large?
Graphite wrote: "policing up" these guys should really be a matter of a Webber, a grenade launcher packed with Scare and a couple of riot shields.
Until they meet an tooled up gang that won't go peacefully...
T
Indeed. Its actually quite fitting that a reference to US police popped up in this thread as the Enforcers have to deal with the same problems they do - heavily armed gangs who might be hopped up on drugs that may render non-lethal attempts at apprehending them ineffective.
Wait, where are their Tactical Rocks/Ammo cases/Skulls/etc? While their poses are boring and static, at least they have both feet on the ground for once.
Does anyone have the current Van Saar gang? I haven't been able to find any pics of them side by side with primaris and I'm curious if the new reiver heads would fit on them or make them misshapen bobbleheads instead.
warboss wrote: Does anyone have the current Van Saar gang? I haven't been able to find any pics of them side by side with primaris and I'm curious if the new reiver heads would fit on them or make them misshapen bobbleheads instead.
Here you go. Hope it helps.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think they might be a bit too bobble headed. The height is about the same but primaris heads are much wider.
Thanks! That's just what I needed. Unfortunately, I agree that they're a bit too big. I was hoping to use the unhelmeted reiver heads but the helmeted one is way too big and just as wide.
Just read the new book, I like how the new bounty hunter are even more overpriced and still have no personality, just "extra dude" on the field. While the Guild Representatives actually had a unique skill that gave them a bit personality.
Ok, I know part of Necromunda is shuffling gang cards, but did they really have to shuffle this book? The trade post isn't beside the new equipment profiles. Why!?
I definitely like the new heads. The weapons......well I would have liked some autoguns or lasguns in hand, as opposed to shotguns, which are included in the plastic kit.
The helmets are the only real departure from the old Enforcers. It’s a pretty minimal retcon compared to some of the original gangs. The helmets definitely have a big influence on their appearance but heads are also the easiest thing to replace from your bits box or third party companies.
Do you know any head / helmet that look like the older Enforcers ?
The helmets are the only real departure from the old Enforcers. It’s a pretty minimal retcon compared to some of the original gangs. The helmets definitely have a big influence on their appearance but heads are also the easiest thing to replace from your bits box or third party companies.
Do you know any head / helmet that look like the older Enforcers ?
I think the real talk was just about the sudden removal of said model and the speculation about why it left. I don't mind the change, though I wish the skull mask was a bit more defined.
Now I'm eagerly waiting for that totally awesome Escher Queen and Goliath Overlord just to be disappointed to know that they'll be FW and/or probably be just another overpriced bounty hunters, not a choice for gang, in plastic kit with a bunch of weapon options.
Have finally had a close read-through of the Perils book. This is sloppy work! So many inconsistencies, bad layout, conflicting rules and weapon profiles...
The Wyrd Power "Scouring" is now explicitly under the category "Pyromancy". But it has Strength 2 instead of the existing Chaos version which has Strength 3.
Aramista's stiletto knife has +1 to hit modifier instead of no hit modifier from the rulebook. Why would her stiletto knife have +1 hit modifier when she has WS 2+ anyway? Did they really need to change the weapon profile for some insane corner case situation where she somehow got -1 to hit in close combat? Not sure that situation could ever occur in the game.
Kal Jericho has the weapon twin "Master-crafted hotshot laspistols". Any fighter can upgrade their laspistol to be both hotshot and master-crafted. But it does not match the profile of Kal's weapon. What does this mean? He has a unique version of this weapon? Does it have the master-crafted special rule? Who knows!
Apollo's boltgun has Ammo 4+ instead of 6+ in the rulebook.
The Archaeotech Device gives a random weapon with the Sidearm trait. One of those weapons is a Grenade Launcher with frag. Can we shoot blasts in close combat now? This is not possible anywhere else in the game.
The Bounty Hunter layout is a complete mess. Frag grenades is listed under wargear (without any details of its stats) while Blasting charge is under weapons and has stats written on the card. Fearsome is listed under special rules, not skills. Sometimes listed under skills and special rules?!? Sometimes the generic bounty hunter rules (Dead, Not Alive, "We'll Get Our Bit...", Claiming Bounties) is listed on the card, sometimes not.
And finally, more of a nuisance: They added another unique weapon profile, Jaws, for the Giant Rat. It is almost identical to fighting knife (except without -1 AP). Of course they couldn't give the rat jaws which counts as "Fighting knife", because then that would give -1 AP, oh the horror that would be! Did we really need another bodypart weapon? We already have Jaws, Ferocious Jaws, Vicious Jaws, Enormous claws, Savage bite, Open fist, Mutated fist (& bone spur), Grav-fist, Augmetic fist, Tunneling claw, Servo-claw, Servo-arm, Beak & talons, Talons, Razor-sharp talons...
Aren't we missing something? How come we haven't got "enormous ferocious servo-sharp bite fists" yet?
Of course they capped the poor rat's weapon to strength 3, so any Strength advancement would be worthless (or highly situational at best). Perhaps it could be useful if that rat wants to Row (Double) faster across the toxic river in Toll Bridge (hah!).
Summary: Another sloppy publication made by authors who don't communicate with each other, don't proof read and never even played the damn game!
Huh? I think they actually carry unique weapons. That's different than "Trading post" typo. Even if they had slightly better weapons they're still overpriced.
New conflicting rules/profiles can mean 3 things: 1) Stealth update: The new version is an update and should override any previous ones universally (apply to all). 2) Unique: The new version is unique, even though the name is identical (very bad way of doing it!). New and previous exists in parallel. 3) Sloppy mistake: The new version is simply a mistake and the previous should be used instead.
Why do you think they carry an unique weapon? I don't see any indication that they're unique. The conflicting profiles is a long tradition in N17/N18 and applies to any weapon, regardless of whether it's unique or not. Why would they give Aramista an unique stiletto knife where the only difference is +1 to hit, when she already got WS 2+? What difference does it make if she had the normal stiletto knife from the rulebook?
It's funny because the assault stubber (standard) actually got an unique name, but the weapon itself is not unique, it's a bog standard heavy stubber!
Unique to me, until further clarification. Given that they're all Underhive's Celebrities, and there're still very little reason to waste money on them.
That's your interpretation. For me, I have no idea. I don't see any reason to go with 1), 2) or 3).
Your other point is valid though. They're too expensive to be used (badly balanced) so it doesn't matter anyway. It's even worse with the Scouring. Too expensive and completely useless (the way continuous effects are upkept RAW).
It's a bad state for the game when the rules are not only filled with errors, but also irrelevant because they aren't used. They could have skipped it alltogether, saving paper and confusion.
I don't know why they ditch the old cost/5 to hire from Oldmunda anyway. That'd make them a viable option.
Doesn't matter anyway, now you can have free Guild buddy at the start, no need to use Bounty Hunter, especially Iron guild when you get Hive Scum and they even have more guns choice thanks to reduced rarity.
I remain convinced that there were exactly 0 games of N17 actually played at GW. You can't not spot mistakes like these if you're actuallly putting models on the table and trying to use their abilities in a live match.
There was no need to play N17 if the plan was to soak players for four $30 quarterly update rules booklets and then invalidate them by significantly changing the campaign system AND updating the gang/weapon stats into a compiled hard back.
Baxx wrote: Have finally had a close read-through of the Perils book. This is sloppy work! So many inconsistencies, bad layout, conflicting rules and weapon profiles...
So... a regular Newcromunda release, is what you're saying?
Haha yes unfortunately. I hoped again that the quality would improve, the compiled rulebooks were better. Time and time I learn the same lesson, do not hope!
Cramming all the Warcry and Necromunda stuff on the same week is going to hurt. I know they are two different universes, but I like my skirmish games.
I really hate the way GW plans out its releases. With Necromunda, it is borderline offensive. Nothing for months, then boom, $150 with a week's early warning. Warcry, here's a $170 starter set, a $90 terrain box, and a $50 warband... next week, here's a $90 terrain box and $150 worth of warbands. Like, I just gave you my entire budget for the next month yesterday!
It wouldn't be so bad if GW didn't have supply issues and you didn't have to buy starter sets, terrain boxes, and card packs immediately or risk never seeing them again.
Lotta cards coming out, and still no sign of the cards for the original 6 gangs.
I like how they recently introduced a mechanic where the lower rated gang could purchase those now OOP tactics cards to offset the difference in rating. Now we have a new "Underdog" system with another set of cards that will be available as a first and lat chance to buy......
I like that it is judgement (with the e) instead of judgment. I guess that is the British preferred version? In the US, the e is rarely used - but I like the word better with the e.
Baxx wrote: How about picking the Enforcers up and use them as actual Enforcers in Necromunda?
Because truthfully, Necro2017 struck me as a bad game with a terrible release model, multiple flawed and contradictory books that don't actually contribute to coherent ruleset and a lot of expensive extras of dubious purpose.
Picking up a gang I like the looks of for something else? Sure, I can see doing that.
.
Burning the however many hundred dollars to run a shoddy throwaway game that highlights the worst of what GW can do when pursuing a cash first release model? No thanks.
How long before Book of Judgment, Book of Perils (?) and a couple of others are compiled and changed enough so these releases are superseded?
The underdog card announcement was sent out by our Necromunda arbiter as a possibility. I'm going to lobby to have the free downloadable cards that GW put up a month or two back as an alternative.
privateer4hire wrote: How long before Book of Judgment, Book of Perils (?) and a couple of others are compiled and changed enough so these releases are superseded?
The underdog card announcement was sent out by our Necromunda arbiter as a possibility. I'm going to lobby to have the free downloadable cards that GW put up a month or two back as an alternative.
Not sure. It would be beneficial to have them compiled and re-released to remove the errors and contradictions they put in them, possibly also adding clarifications where needed. They are however hardbacks, every previous book that has been superseeded was softback.
On the other hand, every additional gang has been updatede several times. Chaos is on version 3, Genestealer Cult is version 2 or 3, Bounty Hunter Venator is version 2. Would be strange if they managed to get Enforcers right on the first attempt.
Baxx wrote: How about picking the Enforcers up and use them as actual Enforcers in Necromunda?
Because truthfully, Necro2017 struck me as a bad game with a terrible release model, multiple flawed and contradictory books that don't actually contribute to coherent ruleset and a lot of expensive extras of dubious purpose.
Picking up a gang I like the looks of for something else? Sure, I can see doing that. . Burning the however many hundred dollars to run a shoddy throwaway game that highlights the worst of what GW can do when pursuing a cash first release model? No thanks.
That all depends. The game itself is fun. Many improvements, expansions and interesting changes from the original classic. But also very sloppy writing that leads to confusing threads and discussions on forums every day. A friend of mine joined N17/N18 without buying anything (he's a 40k veteran and also played classic Necromunda). We had all the terrain needed, we share a big deck of all tactics cards (printable from pdf) so nobody need to bring their own. We have a printable rulesets which includes 100% of everything released, up to date. He play using chaos minis he already got from collecting and playing 40k for decades. Only thing that would be useful for him was to pick up a set of dice really. We have however enough extra dice for him to borrow (only need ammo and injury dice, and those can even be translated from normal D6s).
The things you say are still true, and it pains me, having fond memory of original Necromunda where this kind of stuff was never an issue. The sloppy, careless writing in particular pains me, how they can shat all over something that is such a beloved game for many veterans.
Lotta cards coming out, and still no sign of the cards for the original 6 gangs.
I like how they recently introduced a mechanic where the lower rated gang could purchase those now OOP tactics cards to offset the difference in rating. Now we have a new "Underdog" system with another set of cards that will be available as a first and lat chance to buy......
There are numerous underdog bonuses:
-additional tactics cards as detailed in most scenarios
-House Favours
-House Patronage
None of these are really robust or works perfectly.
I'd like to know more about the Underdogs tactics cards and whether they are covered in the book itself.
I'm not exactly sure how they would weld new tactics cards rules to what already exists without putting it on a page somewhere. Underdogs already get extra cards... so is this new pack going to be cards that can only be taken to fill those extra slots? If so, what makes them more valuable than the already-amazing tactics cards out there? Or will these new cards be taken in addition to, or instead of, the preexisting underdog card advantage?
The Intrigues and Rackets card look like reprinted card-forms of the rules that will appear in the book itself (much like the Domination territories deck just reprinted the rulebook territories).
privateer4hire wrote: How long before Book of Judgment, Book of Perils (?) and a couple of others are compiled and changed enough so these releases are superseded?
The fact that the books are now hardback makes me think they intend for them to stick around. I think parts might get updated. The hired guns and Enforcers may get compiled into a "Gangs of the Underhive, Part Deux", but the campaigns and scenarios are pretty stand alone. I guess time will tell, but carrying four Gang Wars books around with you was bad enough when they weren't heavy hardbacks.
Personally, I like the books. Necromunda has very little in the ways of models coming out regularly for it, so the books offer an opportunity to add sizeable new content to the game. New campaigns are the perfect way for Necromunda to grow given that limitation, but I wish they'd stay away from the cards. They become hard to find too quickly and require specialty card sleeves because they are a stupid, unwieldy size. (And I wish Necromunda would dump the Forgeworld gak and release plastic models and upgrades that people can actually buy on Amazon with a reasonable price).
Hired guns need a look. Bounty hunters are maybe worth it, as they'll stick around a fair while unless you've got a lot of casualty and capture going on, and the initial outlay while high is going to be equivalent to a Brute who could take a melta to the face first game out.
Scum are just never going to be worthwhile, but they weren't in Oldcromunda either. Mordheim (and Wyrds and Ratskins in Oldcromunda) had the advantage of abilities your gang just didn't have, and couldn't get.
privateer4hire wrote: How long before Book of Judgment, Book of Perils (?) and a couple of others are compiled and changed enough so these releases are superseded?
The fact that the books are now hardback makes me think they intend for them to stick around. ...
As an owner of the 2nd Stormcast army book (hard cover) that was superseded in right around a year after it was released, I think Lucy just might, might, be thinking of snatching that football from me at the last second. From now on, if I don't "need" it for the stuff I have collected, I ain't buying it.
We're getting mixed signals on the game local. As much as the old school players have their stuff from the previous games, the new stuff is just pretty pink pony's. The distribution and release is a total gakshow, even if the game has a lot of good additions to the Necromunda game.
On one hand, we like the tight fit of playing a skirmish game with guys that you can grow around, that is cheap for GW games, but on the other, the sputter and release of a 10 guy box set with the thick hardbacked books, and the Forgeworld only aspect really piss you off. YET ANOTHER hardbacked book of unknown lickies and chewies… I don't know about that one.
privateer4hire wrote: How long before Book of Judgment, Book of Perils (?) and a couple of others are compiled and changed enough so these releases are superseded?
The fact that the books are now hardback makes me think they intend for them to stick around. ...
As an owner of the 2nd Stormcast army book (hard cover) that was superseded in right around a year after it was released, I think Lucy just might, might, be thinking of snatching that football from me at the last second. From now on, if I don't "need" it for the stuff I have collected, I ain't buying it.
I think I might have to go this route if this turns into garbage. I think it's that lack of care that is getting me a little peeved at this point. They can't put out just a White Dwarf, or Online download, then why have the website? Honestly, it just looks like someone making this up as they go along with no real plans.
Law in the Imperium is enforced in a million different ways – the cruel whims of each planetary governor dictating how the Lex Imperialis is implemented on their world. Few are more cruel than Lord Helmawr of Necromunda, and the forthcoming Book of Judgement fleshes out how his Palanite Enforcers keep the peace. Today, we delve into this new publication to look at Necromunda’s various law enforcers.
Enforcers The Palanite Enforcers are more akin to Lord Helmawr’s personal army than a police force, and they take great pleasure in brutally enforcing his sadistic will. Chosen from those hivers who show exceptional strength of will and initiative,* Enforcers are put through a savage training regime. Only those who emerge stronger are sent out onto the streets.
Once out on patrol, Enforcers are equipped with some of the finest weapons available, ranging from concussion carbines, used to break up gang violence,** to boltguns and shotguns, which they use to raid the various criminal rackets of the underhive. Once deployed, justice is swift and violent, for only fear of such merciless reprisals keeps the billions of desperate souls in line.
Each patrol is under the command of an Enforcer Captain and operates out of a local precinct-fortress. These Captains are given a broad remit when it comes to suppressing crime*** and they will employ sniper teams, demolition crews and kill squads as they see fit. In fact, by the decree of Lord Helmawr, the Enforcers are judge, jury and executioner on the streets of Necromunda.
Subjugators If a larger disturbance needs to be quelled, Subjugators are called in. Wearing thicker armour and carrying even more brutal weaponry, Subjugators merrily wade into a crowd to crack heads. Only the most remorseless Enforcers**** are assigned to Subjugator teams and they take a great deal of delight in the carnage that they cause.
Adeptus Arbites Feared throughout the galaxy, the Adeptus Arbites are responsible for enforcing Imperial law across the entire Imperium. Only concerned with interplanetary criminals and enforcing the Lex Imperialis, their remit is far above that of the street-level Enforcers. The trivialities of gang warfare are so beneath them that they probably wouldn’t even acknowledge the existence of any issues in the underhive unless they threaten to become planetary unrest.
As long as Necromunda remains loyal to the God-Emperor and the Imperial tithe is paid on time, the Arbites let Lord Helmawr run the planet as he sees fit. While a ganger may have several run-ins with Enforcers, the chances of them ever seeing an Arbitrator are slim. Those who do better hope that they have made their peace with the God-Emperor, because it means they’ve committed a crime so heinous that there’s only one sentence.
If you want to read more about the Adeptus Arbites, pick up the Shira Calpurnia Omnibus and ride along as she takes the law into her own hands.
If you want to crack down on crime in the underhive, you’ll be able to order the Palanite Enforcers and The Book of Judgement from Saturday. Whether you’re rule-abiding or not, you should grab a copy of the Necromunda rulebook, but if you think that the only law is that might makes right then pick up a Goliath gang and get ready to fight back against the crackdown.
* Of course, these also just happen to be the attributes that make great criminals! ** With more violence. *** Although, as they say in the underhive, “it’s only a crime if you get caught”. **** And that’s really saying something!
So, essentially, the article says "Sorry folks, the heavily armored badass melee riot police enforcers you wanted are Coming Soon (tm) here, have YET ANOTHER power armored boltgun-wielding infantry unit. We certainly don't have enough of those!"
OK, am I just going crazy, or do the helmets look a lot better in the art than on the models? The actual differences are minimal - two tubes instead of one, slightly different shape, rebreather is smaller with more vents and doesn't quite meet the brow ridge of the helmet - but to my eye it changes my perception from "that's a bad design" to "the models aren't a good execution of that design".
A more muted and grimy look certainly helps them look better as well, but I really wish they'd more closely replicated the art in terms of the helmet detail.
Yodhrin wrote: OK, am I just going crazy, or do the helmets look a lot better in the art than on the models? The actual differences are minimal - two tubes instead of one, slightly different shape, rebreather is smaller with more vents and doesn't quite meet the brow ridge of the helmet - but to my eye it changes my perception from "that's a bad design" to "the models aren't a good execution of that design".
A more muted and grimy look certainly helps them look better as well, but I really wish they'd more closely replicated the art in terms of the helmet detail.
The visor on the helmet is in one piece while in model are 2 pieces. The mouth piece also had a more defined pentagon shape than the round-ish in the model.
And concept art usually look better than the real models. Lots of great design from the Necromunda book that didn't see the tabletop. You could even look at the very cover of the Necromunda box. None of those Escher characters, armor and weapons they used in the box are in the game. They also had some great gas mask design. Nope, nothing.
Yodhrin wrote: OK, am I just going crazy, or do the helmets look a lot better in the art than on the models? The actual differences are minimal - two tubes instead of one, slightly different shape, rebreather is smaller with more vents and doesn't quite meet the brow ridge of the helmet - but to my eye it changes my perception from "that's a bad design" to "the models aren't a good execution of that design".
A more muted and grimy look certainly helps them look better as well, but I really wish they'd more closely replicated the art in terms of the helmet detail.
The visor on the helmet is in one piece while in model are 2 pieces. The mouth piece also had a more defined pentagon shape than the round-ish in the model.
And concept art usually look better than the real models. Lots of great design from the Necromunda book that didn't see the tabletop. You could even look at the very cover of the Necromunda box. None of those Escher characters, armor and weapons they used in the box are in the game. They also had some great gas mask design. Nope, nothing.
Yeah but we're not talking about some little details here, the helmets are a core part of their aesthetic, it would be like if the artwork for Escher showed their look as it is, and the models all had really terrible hair without a mohawk in sight or their chestplates looked more like croptops.
Now that I've seen what the helmets are supposed to look like I find myself really hoping this is another case of their painter just being terrible and we have another Kria the Huntress situation.
Yodhrin wrote: OK, am I just going crazy, or do the helmets look a lot better in the art than on the models? The actual differences are minimal - two tubes instead of one, slightly different shape, rebreather is smaller with more vents and doesn't quite meet the brow ridge of the helmet - but to my eye it changes my perception from "that's a bad design" to "the models aren't a good execution of that design".
A more muted and grimy look certainly helps them look better as well, but I really wish they'd more closely replicated the art in terms of the helmet detail.
Well the difference you mention arent sto minimal in my opinion! Especially the smaller breather and the visor, i think it's that the ""huge"" different! And i agree with you the artwork are awesome, i'ts a pity they didn't copy more accurately them! I
Anyway i like them a lot, cant wait to start my second gang!!
The art does look better, and the paintjob doesn't help the models. I do like the colors in the art though, the yellow is more muted, armor is weathered dark grey, only the visor is like a neon color. The visor being joined as opposed to two separate lenses looks better to me. I do think these sculpts will look a lot better on the sprue/bare plastic so i'm looking forward to that.
GW deciding to release these, warcry, and wood elves for BB all around the same time has made me feel crazy though. I can't make up my mind on anything anymore.
Still no explanation on why they changed ”Palatine” (as in Palatine Hive/Cluster) to ”Palanite”?
Is it a deliberate change (why?) as ”Spook”->”Ghast” or just misspelled?
kendoka wrote: Still no explanation on why they changed ”Palatine” (as in Palatine Hive/Cluster) to ”Palanite”?
Is it a deliberate change (why?) as ”Spook”->”Ghast” or just misspelled?
Seem like an inside joke and they decide to just run with it.
the_scotsman wrote:So, essentially, the article says "Sorry folks, the heavily armored badass melee riot police enforcers you wanted are Coming Soon (tm) here, have YET ANOTHER power armored boltgun-wielding infantry unit. We certainly don't have enough of those!"
What are you talking about? There is nothing resembling these in the Necromunda range so far. The Enforcers are also not power-armoured - and only four of the ten models shown have something resembling a bolter. So that's quite some hyperbole on your part.
kendoka wrote:Still no explanation on why they changed ”Palatine” (as in Palatine Hive/Cluster) to ”Palanite”?
Is it a deliberate change (why?) as ”Spook”->”Ghast” or just misspelled?
I've been scratching my head about this for weeks already. It seems like a mistake/joke ran amok, and they just went with it. If it is a retcon to make it a copyrightable term, it is still stupid. Even more stupid - but at the same time much more likely in my opinion - it actually started as a typo by some media bloke, and once somebody spotted it, it was considered "too late, just go with it now". Either way it makes no sense.
I believe some of the hive cities are called palatine hives, or something. And that is in the actual rulebook. So for them to go and alter it now, it's a straight up goof...they can't proofread worth frak, and the blood bowl inducement card error this past month proves it. Maybe they'll talk about it this thursday on twitch.
I'd be tempted to provide Sniper Rifles for the entire squad, then play 'lets hide on gantries and ruin my opponent's evening'.
Like, not often. But once in a dark while. For a laugh.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd be tempted to provide Sniper Rifles for the entire squad, then play 'lets hide on gantries and ruin my opponent's evening'.
Like, not often. But once in a dark while. For a laugh.
JohnnyHell wrote: “Enjoy these ‘Palanites’ that you never asked for, because we aren’t making the Arbites that you do want!”
Anyone expecting Nucromunda to simply be a direct update to Oldcromunda was always going to be disappointed.
Arbites don't fit as an individual gang in Necromunda anyway. We only think they do because they were previously available as a playable force (though not as some kind of typical encounter since they were really only intended as a way for a campaign GM to rebalance a long campaign where one or more gangs have shot far ahead of the other participants, and/or as some kind of special event game), but the game and the fluff has moved on a little. I would expect an Arbite special character from Forgeworld at some point as an addition to the Enforcers, but not a full gang.
They can repeat that as much as they like. You may have noticed lots of “but where’s the Arbites?” in most threads online about these guys. Not just me. Not my fault they made some retcon fluff peeps don’t much care for and made those models first instead of Arbites. Shrug.
Never knew enough of the fluff to see any difference between arbites, enforcers, palanites or how any of these names are spelled. If they are one thing and you want them to be the other, can't you just say they are? If you play the game, you decide what's what!
I could paint them up all white and say they're storm troopers from star wars. Nobody to stop me!
Baxx wrote: Never knew enough of the fluff to see any difference between arbites, enforcers, palanites or how any of these names are spelled. If they are one thing and you want them to be the other, can't you just say they are? If you play the game, you decide what's what!
I could paint them up all white and say they're storm troopers from star wars. Nobody to stop me!
But if everyone just did that they wouldn't have anything to complain about.
Haha yes, but don't forget, this is Necromunda. There are infinite amount of problems to complain about. For example the Gunk ammo for Bolt weapons in the Perils book.
First off, Gunk is listed twice for Boltgun, but not listed for Combi Boltgun at all. Ok, it is easy to fix, just add the Combi trait to it. What is really annoying is how the Bolt weapons are affected differently. Gunk for Boltgun? Suddenly it's limited, loses Rapid Fire, has reduced characteristics for AP, Damage and Ammo! None of this applies to Boltpistol or Heavy Botler. Boltgun and Heavy Bolter have reduced short and long range accuracy. Bolt pistol only has reduced short range accuracy. These are just sloppy changes scattered about!
Baxx wrote: Never knew enough of the fluff to see any difference between arbites, enforcers, palanites or how any of these names are spelled. If they are one thing and you want them to be the other, can't you just say they are? If you play the game, you decide what's what!
I could paint them up all white and say they're storm troopers from star wars. Nobody to stop me!
But if everyone just did that they wouldn't have anything to complain about.
Cute, but no. They look entirely different, these are very much not Arbites. Let’s not be needlessly rude to people because they have a differing view, now...
They can repeat that as much as they like. You may have noticed lots of “but where’s the Arbites?” in most threads online about these guys. Not just me. Not my fault they made some retcon fluff peeps don’t much care for and made those models first instead of Arbites. Shrug.
There hasn't been a retcon. Arbites were not what the original Necromunda models were, they were also Enforcers. The 4 Adeptus Arbites miniatures looked fairly similar, but there was still a difference between Arbites and Enforcers.
In lore as well, the Arbites don't bother with this sort of thing. It seems quite a lot of people confuse the two and think it's the Arbites that are the typical Law Enforcement for the Hive, for some reason.
Besides all of that, there hasn’t been a new Arbites model in two decades. Who knows what they’d look like if they were redone today? Especially since Judge Dredd has lawyers now.
Anyway, what I’m saying is; if you wait long enough, you might get new arbites that might look a lot closer to these guys than their previous incarnations.
Cute, but no. They look entirely different, these are very much not Arbites. Let’s not be needlessly rude to people because they have a differing view, now...
Do they look that different? Keep in mind most minis look different now compared to decades ago, even the ones representing the exact same thing. I'm not sure I'd be able to tell who's what if you showed me pictures of each.
If you played against me, you could use one to represent the other without me even noticing.
Mr_Rose wrote: Besides all of that, there hasn’t been a new Arbites model in two decades. Who knows what they’d look like if they were redone today? Especially since Judge Dredd has lawyers now.
Anyway, what I’m saying is; if you wait long enough, you might get new arbites that might look a lot closer to these guys than their previous incarnations.
I’d be fine with something that looked like this but with more eagles and other fancy things. As an alternative you could just use Warlord’s Dredd miniatures (if I could ever find out where to buy them).
There hasn't been a retcon. Arbites were not what the original Necromunda models were, they were also Enforcers. The 4 Adeptus Arbites miniatures looked fairly similar, but there was still a difference between Arbites and Enforcers.
In lore as well, the Arbites don't bother with this sort of thing. It seems quite a lot of people confuse the two and think it's the Arbites that are the typical Law Enforcement for the Hive, for some reason.
My books are in storage in... Belgium I think (long story) but IIRC the original 1995 Necromunda game and the even older RT articles had Arbites as The Law in the Underhive.
The 2004ish Specialist Games guys did a small retcon that they are Enforcers who dress just like Arbites because the Governor likes the look.
For me these guys will find a place in my small Arbites (count as DKK) army as Arbites.
Spoiler:
They're cool models, an organization spanning a million worlds will have some variation in equipment, and it ain't like there's another GW-made Arbites set for me to choose.
Anyone who does want an undated verstion of circa 1995 Arbites can check out Anvil, W Miniatures or Mad Robot for some very good substitutes.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: My books are in storage in... Belgium I think (long story) but IIRC the original 1995 Necromunda game and the even older RT articles had Arbites as The Law in the Underhive.
Battles in the Underhive introduced a small Arbites patrol (there was even a WD Bat Rep of them vs some Delaques back in the day).
When specialist became a thing and got the off-casts and test models to use, that's when the Arbites that weren't going to get released became Enforcers.
Some pages are shown from the new Enforcers book in some live streaming session. Even in those few pages, there are multiple examples of sloppy writing and editing.
Stiletto knife is once again listed as having a +1 hit modifier for Estus Jet (Outlaw Hive Scum) fighter card. Is this another unique weapon without an unique name? Is it a stealth update to be applied universally? Or is it the same error repeated? Why would Belladonne have the plain old boring stiletto knife, while the cheap hive scum Estus Jet got an upgraded stiletto knife?
The Throwing Knives are also changed substantially for Outlaw Hive Scum Jonny Razor, Estus Jet, Gaen 'The Gunk Queen' Gorvos: Gains Str S, Am 5+ and loses Silent trait! Stealth update, mistake, or applied universally? Strange choices they made in this book!
Vunder Gorvos (Outlaw Hive Scum) fighter card specifies "2x Gold Plated and Master-crafted stub guns". Ok, so they do specify whether a non-unique weapon name is master-crafted or not? Bye bye master-crafted laspistols for Kal Jericho, his pistols are not actually master-crafted after all then? Even with these gold plated master crafted stub guns, they also gain the Reckless trait for no reason what so ever. Is this another unique weapon with a non-unique name? And they added the Pistol trait to it! Pistol!?! Isn't it Sidearm these days? Damn...
They seem to have degenerated back to Gang War level sloppyness for this new book!
I mostly like the enforcers. The helmets? Not so much. What I do like is the visored helmet that was in the art. It feels reminiscent of the old Dredd-inspired helmets (just with a respirator). With individual eyes they just look like small marine helmets.
Looking at the images from the livestream, I really like how they interact with campaigns.
When they take a territory they can Police it to grab Rep(and get more each time they successfully defend it), but don't get any Boons. Or, they can Grant the territory to another gang in the campaign. If at the end of the campaign nobody can claim Dominator because multiple gangs have the same number of territories, the Enforcers win instead with a Peacemaker victory.
Creates a constant incentive for the Enforcers player to act as a balancing force between the other gangs, and also an incentive for backstabby shenanigans when several powerful gangs try to temporarily cripple the Enforcers with assaults on their Precinct and then scramble between themselves to win the campaign before the Enforcers get back on their feet.
I also like the "if you retire one of your injured or dead officers, you get a new Rookie for free" thing, hah.
For real if it wasn't for the wonky-lookin' helmets(and the lack of models with a female - though not, I stress, before the Usuals start their pish, "sexy" proportions - body type), I'd be very hype for this release.
EDIT: Ooh, and a new kind of campaign, Law & Misrule, that's basically old-timey gangster wars in the Underhive as you battle over rackets and criminal enterprises. Cool stuff.
The bars on their shoulders are nice. For a rookie you could do two of them black and the furthest one from their head white. Then for a baseline guy you could do the furthest one gold. Two gold for a veteran (Is that a thing? None of the gangs until now have appealed to me (read: I’m an awful painter and they looked challenging) and I don’t actually play). For the Enforcer Captain you could do all three of them gold like the ones in the promo pictures.
If I wasn't out of Skitarii helmets the heads would be less of a problem. The release timing is still pretty bad, though, after awesome BB Woodies, after Warcry, before more Warcry. I literally haven't even opened my Delaque box.
I was looking around for stuff to use as conversion fodder and now I want to get a gang of OG Ratskins. Or at least a couple to turn into a Warcry band or a Kill Team or whatever. Sigh. Why did Oldmunda have to be so cool. The ducking ganger with shotgun and knife from the Orlock vs Goliath batrep between Rick Priestley and...Gav(?) from my first WD ever is more expensive than the leaders on ebay, though :/
Funny how they refuse to add unique names to weapons that actually have unique stats (Vunder Gorvos' stub guns, stiletto knife, throwing knives), but have no problem adding unique names to weapons that are not!
All new so-called "subjugator grenade launcher" stats are identical to standard grenade launcher. "Enforcer shotgun" is actually just a plain old combat shotgun.
Yodhrin wrote: Looking at the images from the livestream, I really like how they interact with campaigns.
When they take a territory they can Police it to grab Rep(and get more each time they successfully defend it), but don't get any Boons. Or, they can Grant the territory to another gang in the campaign. If at the end of the campaign nobody can claim Dominator because multiple gangs have the same number of territories, the Enforcers win instead with a Peacemaker victory.
Creates a constant incentive for the Enforcers player to act as a balancing force between the other gangs, and also an incentive for backstabby shenanigans when several powerful gangs try to temporarily cripple the Enforcers with assaults on their Precinct and then scramble between themselves to win the campaign before the Enforcers get back on their feet.
I also like the "if you retire one of your injured or dead officers, you get a new Rookie for free" thing, hah.
For real if it wasn't for the wonky-lookin' helmets(and the lack of models with a female - though not, I stress, before the Usuals start their pish, "sexy" proportions - body type), I'd be very hype for this release.
EDIT: Ooh, and a new kind of campaign, Law & Misrule, that's basically old-timey gangster wars in the Underhive as you battle over rackets and criminal enterprises. Cool stuff.
Defo a must-have book I think. Cheers for the write up!
When they take a territory they can Police it to grab Rep(and get more each time they successfully defend it), but don't get any Boons. Or, they can Grant the territory to another gang in the campaign. If at the end of the campaign nobody can claim Dominator because multiple gangs have the same number of territories, the Enforcers win instead with a Peacemaker victory.
Creates a constant incentive for the Enforcers player to act as a balancing force between the other gangs, and also an incentive for backstabby shenanigans when several powerful gangs try to temporarily cripple the Enforcers with assaults on their Precinct and then scramble between themselves to win the campaign before the Enforcers get back on their feet.
Yeah it looks fluffy, but the Peacemaker victory has no real game effects, no bonuses to splinter gangs etc. And keep in mind, the only reason they added Triumphs (and a time-limited campaign) is because they couldn't bother preventing gangs from spiralling out of control. Their solution is simply to stop the game before it spirals too badly.
The enforcers have a lot of unique weapon options. Instead of having the standard grenade launcher, they have the subjugator grenade launcher (frag, stun) as a Basic weapon (instead of Special weapon) and the assault ram (heavy weapon, takes up 2 weapon slots). The assault ram consists of 2 weapons with a total of 3 weapon profiles! 1) Assault ram (versatile close combat weapon) 2) auxiliary grenade launcher (frag, choke gas). The Enforcers have multiple ammo ugprades for the grenade launcher: choke gas, krak, photon flash, scare gas, smoke. Too bad they don't have a "grenade launcher", none of these ammo upgrades can be used. Or are they intended for the subjugator grenade launcher? The assault ram's grenade launcher component? Both? Who knows! Sloppy writing in this book.
Hawky wrote: How do we know none of those enforcer models are females?
Because they all have exactly the same stature and proportions? I'm not after cheesecake, but a subtle reduction in height and alteration of the hip-to-waist ratio and size of the feet would be good - not every tough female has to be a Gwendoline Christie lookalike.
Baxx wrote: At first glance, the new campaign looks identical to Dominion campaign, replacing "Territories" with "Rackets".
When they take a territory they can Police it to grab Rep(and get more each time they successfully defend it), but don't get any Boons. Or, they can Grant the territory to another gang in the campaign. If at the end of the campaign nobody can claim Dominator because multiple gangs have the same number of territories, the Enforcers win instead with a Peacemaker victory.
Creates a constant incentive for the Enforcers player to act as a balancing force between the other gangs, and also an incentive for backstabby shenanigans when several powerful gangs try to temporarily cripple the Enforcers with assaults on their Precinct and then scramble between themselves to win the campaign before the Enforcers get back on their feet.
Yeah it looks fluffy, but the Peacemaker victory has no real game effects, no bonuses to splinter gangs etc. And keep in mind, the only reason they added Triumphs (and a time-limited campaign) is because they couldn't bother preventing gangs from spiralling out of control. Their solution is simply to stop the game before it spirals too badly.
Meh, there are already a couple of fan-made "perpetual campaign" systems out there that basically function as a greatest hits of the N17, N18, and classic game campaigns, they'll do me fine until SGS decide to actually bother making one themselves that works. I'm mostly just impressed they've managed to add the Cops faction to the game without utterly ruining it unless only the Arbitrator is allowed to use them and then only for slapdowns on runaway successes(which did happen under the old system as well, just a bit less frequently).
Peacemaker doesn't have any effects listed on the pages that have been shown up to this point, but even if it doesn't have any at all, does it need to? Enforcers look to be pretty solid even as a fresh warband, giving them carry-over bonuses may well push them over the edge into OP.
Chopstick wrote: Female model? They'd be given ridiculous pose to remind people of their presense.
This is not Infinity.
I did not make any Infinity reference, The "female" in Van saar and Delaque both have ridiculous pose that make them stand out amongs their peer. They just simply won't make a simple neutral standing pose for female.
And that's it confirmed then; the dastardly FW Painter strikes again, the helmets look fine.
Seriously, I do not understand why FW don't just say to this guy "look, you have a very nice personal style, but we're trying to flog plastic crack here so tone it down and stop painting away half the detail that's on the minis eh?".
Pretty happy with the kit, wish there was a grenade launcher but most of the basics are covered well. Only real bummer is only one unique bare head, was hoping for at least two. And i'm also relieved to read that the kit includes a transfer sheet, so no need to freehand those skull eagles on the chest.
Deep in the underhive, kind words and even-handed rules aren't enough to maintain order – only a boot stamping down on the throat of the ungrateful and malcontent will do.
To aid them in their task, Palanite Enforcers have an impressive range of weaponry including shotguns, boltguns, autopistols, stub guns, sniper rifles and shock batons. The models have been designed with a huge amount of variety and options in assembly, meaning that every Enforcer can be unique. In total, you'll find:
This plastic kit is made up of 156 components and makes 10 Palanite Enforcers. It is supplied with ten 25mm Necromunda bases and a Palanite Enforcer Patrol transfer sheet. Rules for using a Patrol can be found in The Book of Judgement.
But a lot of GW fantasy is on last chance to buy Empire, Dwarves, Elves...
I don't recall seeing a bolt pistol in their list, I think since they are given standard issue weapons like cops would then they don't get anything too unusual.
You would think a bolt pistol would be part of their armory considering they get a boltgun though.
I bet the inclusion of the transfer sheet is the reason for the extra cost. This is the only gang box to include one.
I think the reason they only have one bare head is because they’re going for the anonymity thing. These guys aren’t supposed to be recognisable by the old friends that they’re besting the grug out of.
Chopstick wrote: bah....Too many stub gun, and they aren't even Enforcer Stub Gun, just regular crappy one.
Lots of Autopistol, but they're all in holster?? Why??
Guess we'll had to wait for the FW weapon pack to have...autopistol.
They have the crappy guns out because they are about to plant those on the corpses of their enemies to say they were armed when they shot them for jaywalking.
It's sad that the stub guns are stub guns. They look so enormous I thought they'd be adding hand cannons to the game...
And nice to see some of the cards are GW exclusive and cannot be bought from stockists. Made my first order through the GW store in ages today 'cause'a that.
And nice to see some of the cards are GW exclusive and cannot be bought from stockists. Made my first order through the GW store in ages today 'cause'a that.
Why does GW even develop a product if they don't want us to buy it
They have the crappy guns out because they are about to plant those on the corpses of their enemies to say they were armed when they shot them for jaywalking.
But why? This is the Imperium, and Necromunda specifically; someone with no weapon in their possession is far more suspicious and likely to be some sort of recidivist crook…
Not like GW have that much control of what rules they scramble together. Nothing stopping us from doing the same. Chances are, we'll even get more consistency and less mistakes doing it.
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Chopstick wrote: bah....Too many stub gun, and they aren't even Enforcer Stub Gun, just regular crappy one.
Lots of Autopistol, but they're all in holster?? Why??
Guess we'll had to wait for the FW weapon pack to have...autopistol.
There's about 200 unique weapon profiles in N18, and you want more? Let me recommend Borderlands, you gonna love it!
Btw, are you happy about the subjugator pattern grenade launcher, or did you also want a unique grenade launcher for the Enforcers? The Enforcer shotgun is also just a plain old comabt shotgun with a new name (and no ammo upgrades).
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H.B.M.C. wrote: It's sad that the stub guns are stub guns. They look so enormous I thought they'd be adding hand cannons to the game...
But, stub guns are hand cannons! Stub weapons are so massive, their pistols are called 'guns', and their guns are called 'cannons'!
Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that if you want a visor instead of two distinct eye lenses, all you'd have to do is run a small file in between the eye lenses to get rid of that ridge between them. Shouldn't be too hard.
Bob Lorgar wrote: Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that if you want a visor instead of two distinct eye lenses, all you'd have to do is run a small file in between the eye lenses to get rid of that ridge between them. Shouldn't be too hard.
You literally don't even need to do that - their wonky painter has deliberately made it look like there is no contiguous visor, but there is in fact a contiguous visor. The respirator section doesn't actually touch the brow.
There's about 200 unique weapon profiles in N18, and you want more? Let me recommend Borderlands, you gonna love it!
Btw, are you happy about the subjugator pattern grenade launcher, or did you also want a unique grenade launcher for the Enforcers? The Enforcer shotgun is also just a plain old comabt shotgun with a new name (and no ammo upgrades).
That's not the point, the point is the space on the sprue is limited, why not giving player useful bit? What is the excuse to make 3 pair of autopistol holster (12 guns in total for 2 sprue ) instead of an actual pistol hand? they only need to sculpt the hand in, And holstered pistols bits are everywhere, 2-4 is nice but 12 of them? Seriously.
Also who'd run 8 stub guns as main weapon in their starting gang? And I didn't make any complaint about the shotgun.
I only play game casually so I wouldn't want game to flood me with crappy stub gun loot drop, now I'll either have to to buy the FW DLC pack, or I had to mod (kitbash) the game, can't just make the base game good huh?
They're never able to repair the core mechanics of the game, no. Sentries, underdog bonus, gangs spiralling out of control, basic scenario mechanics...
I can agree with you they could have different parts on the sprue. Having a bunch of stub guns may be the only way to play them, so maybe that's why? They may not be able to get rid of it, because they start with it included in their price.
Baxx wrote: They're never able to repair the core mechanics of the game, no. Sentries, underdog bonus, gangs spiralling out of control, basic scenario mechanics...
Which all have been a problem for 20 years and yet no one at GW has figured out a way to fix those (spoiler: fans probably fixed all of those in an hour)
Baxx wrote: They're never able to repair the core mechanics of the game, no. Sentries, underdog bonus, gangs spiralling out of control, basic scenario mechanics...
I didn't mean the game literally, By "base game" i mean the base plastic gang kit, which I bring in FW weapon packs as DLC, and me kitbashing the kit as modding it, like modding a game.
Actually I just saw the stream screencap and that Grenade Launcher is even smaller than the boltgun. Would've easily fit in the sprue with the sacrifice of stubgun, holstered pistol, or grenades,.....
Ok sorry (I misunderstood what you meant). It would definitly have been a better kit trading some more abundant or less useful parts for a grenade launcher.
Had a chuckle at the stub gun hand wringing on this page. I've felt that too.
The Goliath, Orlock and Delaque kits are also overloaded with cool-looking, not-so-great-in-game stub guns. They make decent backup weapons early in a campaign, but it doesn't take long before you're better off with a backup like a lasgun/autogun, even on trash tier meatshield gangers.
It seems clear that they think of the stub gun as the ubiquitous sidearm of the hives. Which would be totally cool and fine in, like, "Necromunda: The Animated Series," where a character could pull out their piece and tap someone at a reasonable distance, without having to roll any dice for it. But in the actual bounds of gameplay it's just not a very good weapon to bring along given the opportunity cost of not filling your three weapon slots with something more versatile or powerful. There's also the fact that in the land of WYSIWYG, even within groups that tolerate "soft" WYSIWYG, most players would probably want their fighter's primary weapon held in hand, with a backup like a stub gun only included on the hip, if at all.
Bob Lorgar wrote: Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that if you want a visor instead of two distinct eye lenses, all you'd have to do is run a small file in between the eye lenses to get rid of that ridge between them. Shouldn't be too hard.
You literally don't even need to do that - their wonky painter has deliberately made it look like there is no contiguous visor, but there is in fact a contiguous visor. The respirator section doesn't actually touch the brow.
Does appear to be that way based on the pic on Warhammer Community.
Quick mock-up of what that would look like (with a more subdued colour scheme too, because why not):
Why are a few people freaking out about this? It's completely in keeping with GW's ancient practice of pilfering (then f'ing up) words from historical or fictional sources, and the provenance of the term seems obvious.
'-ite' is a common suffix that conveys someone's membership in a group/nation/whatever.
GW looked at "Palatine Hive" and thought, "what's an interesting, unsubtle, baroque and unnecessary way we could denote an organization of people who represent this place?"
Then -- because they don't proof or research -- we get "Palanite" instead of "Palatinite."
They can have all sorts of unique profiles for jaws, claws, beaks and rat ass, but decide energy shield can have the exact same rules as an assault shield? I'm gonna make it super simple and just call it shield, since energy and assault make no difference.
Not sure, I think they won't, as standard tactics cards have never been printed in books before. Looks like there will be 13 "Underdog Tactics cards". Not sure how these differ from normal ones. The authors want these to be used when the difference is 400 or greater, so perhaps these are extra powerful tactics cards? Normal tactics cards are usually priced 100 credits, so these could be 4 times as powerful? 12 Tactics cards are also included, so these will be in the same category as the 176 we got already? And finally, a how-to card explaining how to use underdog tactics cards. As they seem to be forced to always have 26 cards in each deck to be sold.
At the moment we got 156 tactics cards. The Enforcers deck will add 20 more (16 general, 4 Enforcers). And the above mentioned Underdog deck will add 12 tactics card. For a total of 188!?! Does anyone need that many tactics cards? Do we need more? Maybe in 2 years time, we have 400 tactics cards? When will it stop?
When summarizing all current cards (188 Tactics, 26 Badzone Event/Environment, 13 Underdog, 54 House Sub-Plot, 26 Territory, 26 Rackets, 26 Intrigues), we have 359 cards for this game! 359! And they've surely planning more to come in the future as we speak?
Baxx wrote: Not sure, I think they won't, as standard tactics cards have never been printed in books before. Looks like there will be 13 "Underdog Tactics cards". Not sure how these differ from normal ones. The authors want these to be used when the difference is 400 or greater, so perhaps these are extra powerful tactics cards? Normal tactics cards are usually priced 100 credits, so these could be 4 times as powerful? 12 Tactics cards are also included, so these will be in the same category as the 176 we got already? And finally, a how-to card explaining how to use underdog tactics cards. As they seem to be forced to always have 26 cards in each deck to be sold.
The product descriptions on the preorder page makes me think they might.
Compare:
Enforcer Tactis Cards Pack:"26 cards adding extra Tactics for your Palanite Enforcers" Intrigues and Rackets Card Pack:"52 reference cards for use in your games"
Necromunda: Badzone Environments & Events Cards: "26 reference cards for your games"
Underdog Card Pack:"26 reference cards for use in your games"
We know that the Badzone and Intrigues card reprint material straight from the books and only exist for people who prefer the convenience of cards. The Underdog pack description uses the same phrasing as those two packs, referring to the contents as "reference" cards. On the other hand, the backs of the Underdog cards clearly state "Tactics Card," and like you said, no previous tactics cards have appeared in rulebooks.
I suppose if all of the Underdog cards were meant to be played before a game begins it wouldn't matter if they were on a card or in the book. However, if they work like normal tactics cards, and are played in-game, they probably won't be in the hardcover.
A lot of the new cards will have rules in their respective book release, but with so many things coming out having to flick through a dozen books would be tedious.
Graphite wrote: Yeah.... The number of tactics cards is getting outright silly now.
They keep that in check but letting them go OOP
Didn't they mention in Thursday's stream the OOP gang tactics would be replaced by a new edition sometime soonish? The old packs might get a one-off reprint, but it sounded as if they were mainly planning on a new batch, bringing the total to.. well, I don't even want to know.
Asking for general consensus, what specific 3rd party head replacements would you suggest to replace the enforcer helmets and keep the "Police/SWAT/whateverpolicestrokeforceyouknow" feel? I don't like them.
privateer4hire wrote: Even better. They superseded the main rulebook plus gang war supplements so why not replace the original cards instead of just keeping them in print.
Oh, no, let me clarify that: when I said "replace" I meant as a product they stock (for a while at least...). The original cards are still as "legal" as they have always been. Which is why they might reprint them as a one-off at some point for those who missed out, but for whatever reason they will add to the pile with another wave of gang tactics cards.
Well, the "whatever reason" of course mainly is "to sell more cards to people who already bought them the first time around". After all, aren't we all asking, nay, begging for yet more tactics cards?
Say what you want, GW certainly are creative in making a lot of money out of a small skirmish game requiring a dozen or so models.
Hawky wrote: Asking for general consensus, what specific 3rd party head replacements would you suggest to replace the enforcer helmets and keep the "Police/SWAT/whateverpolicestrokeforceyouknow" feel? I don't like them.
Do you know anything about size and proportions of those heads? Had some bad luck earlier with convertions for Necromunda where scale was way off from some 3rd party companies.
We know that the Badzone and Intrigues card reprint material straight from the books and only exist for people who prefer the convenience of cards. The Underdog pack description uses the same phrasing as those two packs, referring to the contents as "reference" cards. On the other hand, the backs of the Underdog cards clearly state "Tactics Card," and like you said, no previous tactics cards have appeared in rulebooks.
I suppose if all of the Underdog cards were meant to be played before a game begins it wouldn't matter if they were on a card or in the book. However, if they work like normal tactics cards, and are played in-game, they probably won't be in the hardcover.
You have a sharp eye, reference cards probably will be in the book! So we can expect to see a list of Underdog Tactics in the book.
Baxx wrote: Do you know anything about size and proportions of those heads? Had some bad luck earlier with convertions for Necromunda where scale was way off from some 3rd party companies.
As far as I know they are scaled to 28mm heroics. I haved the heads already and they seem on par with primaris helms and normal marine helms.
Hawky wrote: Asking for general consensus, what specific 3rd party head replacements would you suggest to replace the enforcer helmets and keep the "Police/SWAT/whateverpolicestrokeforceyouknow" feel? I don't like them.
privateer4hire wrote: Even better. They superseded the main rulebook plus gang war supplements so why not replace the original cards instead of just keeping them in print.
Oh, no, let me clarify that: when I said "replace" I meant as a product they stock (for a while at least...). The original cards are still as "legal" as they have always been. Which is why they might reprint them as a one-off at some point for those who missed out, but for whatever reason they will add to the pile with another wave of gang tactics cards.
Well, the "whatever reason" of course mainly is "to sell more cards to people who already bought them the first time around". After all, aren't we all asking, nay, begging for yet more tactics cards?
Say what you want, GW certainly are creative in making a lot of money out of a small skirmish game requiring a dozen or so models.
They should just do an app. With a $30 monthly subscription
How convenient for them to fire-and-forget these cards. They some times make new cards with same name of existing cards. Or new cards with identical effect as existing cards (repeating themselves). For me, it's much more difficult. I'm actually collecting all these cards and saving them for the future, when Necromunda once again is abandoned by GW.
Hawky wrote: Asking for general consensus, what specific 3rd party head replacements would you suggest to replace the enforcer helmets and keep the "Police/SWAT/whateverpolicestrokeforceyouknow" feel? I don't like them.
I have not chimed in on this game in a long while, but I've decided to express my own feelings on it.
I had been super excited for Necro'17. I bought all the Gang War books and even bought FW supplements weapons for my Escher and Van Saar (I otherwise never buy from FW). Well, they lost a Necro customer with the quick release of the compendium rules/gang book.
>Well, they lost a Necro customer with the quick release of the compendium rules/gang book
For me it was the complete opposite.
I also bought all the Gang War books - but they were such a mess that I might have abandoned N17 had they not released the compendium/N18 (which clarified some parts).
How convenient for them to fire-and-forget these cards. They some times make new cards with same name of existing cards. Or new cards with identical effect as existing cards (repeating themselves). For me, it's much more difficult. I'm actually collecting all these cards and saving them for the future, when Necromunda once again is abandoned by GW.
The heads I bought are in a rather big helmet, the normal heads look like they might fit guard just fine.
Baxx wrote: Happy GW lost a customer, hopefully Necromunda didn't lose a player!
Well, it has put Necro on the back burner for a while. I will come back to it in time.
However, GW did not lose a customer due to it. I had parted ways with GW back in 2003-04 due in equal parts there stagnant, unbalanced gameplay and their terrible business practices. Shadow War Armageddon brought me back a bit (I had always wanted a 40K version of Necro.), but I truly jumped back in with Warhammer Underworlds (WU) and Kill Team. I appreciate the changes in the company's goals and methods introduced by the newest CEO. GW is engaging the community in positive ways and providing more interesting gameplay experiences in its newer games. I think they learned a lot from their relationship with FFG.
Sadly, Necro seems to be one of their few missteps (ME SBG Battle Companies is also a let-down, as is nearly everything Forgeworld-related due to exorbitant pricing). I am checking out Warcry too. The only thing that is certain is my continued interest in WU (the tightest, most competitively balanced game GW has ever produced).
privateer4hire wrote: ...After all, aren't we all asking, nay, begging for yet more tactics cards?...
They were so popular with our group that we only allow them as an option.
Otherwise House Favors or whatever it's called is how underdogs get a leg up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really do not understand how to edit multi-quotes, do I?
As an underedog, you could get a leg up using underdog bonus tactics cards, regular bonus tactics cards if specified in the scenario, or instead a wider choice of house patronage bonuses and house favours, unless you have alliance in which case you can't have house favours or house sub-plots, but can still have regular bonus tactics cards from scenario and/or possibly underdog tactics cards.
I intend on using these, I've already used them on a few models, a bit small for custodes, a bit big for basic gangers, but not so mush, just a little more heroic thans GW's. I guessing these guys will be a bit bulkier than normal necromunda so should be fine.
The quality has again dropped considerably for the enforcers book. Some terrible errors:
-Several bounty hunters have incorrect weapon stats (Estus Jet, Gaen Gorvus, Jonny Razor) probably created a long time before the weapon stats became finished (including new types of traits which didn't exist before), or they were copy-pasted from existing bounty hunters without making the necessary changes. Vunder Gorvos got incorrect weapon profile for the stub gun, or it may be a new unique weapon which incorrectly is labeled as stub gun. Nobody knows! -Bodyguards for smuggler alliance have ogryn-like power! Why do they get 2 brutes? Water guild have similar bodyguard, but it may be only 1 of them. The rules in the Perils book doesn't even specify the amount you get in each guild, this is at least one improvement in the new Enforcer book. If this is supposed to be balanced, the smuggler alliance would need to include a fatal drawback. -Heavy concussion ram looks to be an upgrade from the concussion carbine (special weapon), but lost blast in the process! Why does this weapon not have blast? Right now it is not too different from a bolter (longer range, weaker damage, special traits). -They still refuse to give smoke 5" blast for whatever reason.
This is based on the previews alone. Would expect much more mistakes when reading the full book. It's frustrating to play a game where the authors don't know their own rules!
I was going to order some, but they got bumped to a negative priority by Space Marines.
First time in decades that GW's release schedule has eaten itself for my planned purchases
Welcome to join! This is a game that gives a lot of action per miniature, so good value for a skirmish game in my opinion. Good fluff, nice minis, interesting (yet frustratingly messy) rules. Also rich background if you want to delve into the fluff side.
For those who were scared about size here a video with some comparison (spoiler: they obviously fits well with all the recent release and are not bigger than a primaris )
Anyone know how to get the Underdog cards?
It's release day today and they're no longer available. No online sellers I use have even listed it either.
Is there a list of the stats from these cards in a book? Or has GW finally released something that might balance the game and made it in such pitifully small numbers no one can get them?
I seriously think that GW must only be selling stuff by making everything limited edition and selling it through FOMO.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Anyone know how to get the Underdog cards?
It's release day today and they're no longer available. No online sellers I use have even listed it either.
Is there a list of the stats from these cards in a book? Or has GW finally released something that might balance the game and made it in such pitifully small numbers no one can get them?
I seriously think that GW must only be selling stuff by making everything limited edition and selling it through FOMO.
Pretty much. The only recourse we really have is to make a (polite, measured, not death-threaty)fuss on FB and hope they put a printable PDF version of them up on the website like they did for the AT terminals.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Anyone know how to get the Underdog cards?
It's release day today and they're no longer available. No online sellers I use have even listed it either.
Is there a list of the stats from these cards in a book? Or has GW finally released something that might balance the game and made it in such pitifully small numbers no one can get them?
I seriously think that GW must only be selling stuff by making everything limited edition and selling it through FOMO.
I make a very printable document containing 100% all cards released for Necromunda (soon to be 359 cards!). It will be updated with all the new decks released shortly. Pm me if interested.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Does seem quite odd that a lot of the basic weaponry that Enforcers can get doesn't exist in the plastic kit.
I can't wait to see the Weapon set Forgeworld gonna do for the kit and even the head variant, that probably what gonna make me buy a kit. I am thinking of a gang with shield and melee/short range weapon and maybe one sniper rifle if they offer a variant with the kneel pose
H.B.M.C. wrote: Does seem quite odd that a lot of the basic weaponry that Enforcers can get doesn't exist in the plastic kit.
What do you mean by "basic weaponry"? None of the gang kits come with all the weapons you need. There're always something missing : bolt gun, bolt pistol, plasma, chainsword, Grenade Launcher., empty hand, hand holding grenade, hand holding *insert useless cosmetic item here*.... lack of left/right hand option. And Forgeworld provided them in resin weapon packs.
Unless I'm missing something, Enforcers can only use weapons they have in their list (so no captured weapons/market weapons) and both Boltgun and Shotgun is in the sprue. 3 pieces each.
Hawky wrote: Unless I'm missing something, Enforcers can only use weapons they have in their list (so no captured weapons/market weapons) and both Boltgun and Shotgun is in the sprue. 3 pieces each.
I don’t see that in their rules? But then I’m not sure what ‘scavenging’ is supposed to mean in the game context either…
Hawky wrote: Unless I'm missing something, Enforcers can only use weapons they have in their list (so no captured weapons/market weapons) and both Boltgun and Shotgun is in the sprue. 3 pieces each.
I don’t see that in their rules? But then I’m not sure what ‘scavenging’ is supposed to mean in the game context either…
So we get reprint of campaign and alliance rules. The first Guild Alliance rules from Perils book was just a beta version, the full version covering both Guilds and criminal alliances are covered in Enforcers book. Smells like Compendium 2019?
Baxx wrote: So we get reprint of campaign and alliance rules. The first Guild Alliance rules from Perils book was just a beta version, the full version covering both Guilds and criminal alliances are covered in Enforcers book. Smells like Compendium 2019?
Baxx wrote: So we get reprint of campaign and alliance rules. The first Guild Alliance rules from Perils book was just a beta version, the full version covering both Guilds and criminal alliances are covered in Enforcers book. Smells like Compendium 2019?
Umm... no. The Guilds aren't in this book.
No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.
No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.
Literally nothing tells you this is a replacement. The inference is yours alone.
Yeah, it’s just a duplication so you don’t have to buy the Book of Peril just to use the alliances in the Book of Judgement.
Similarly the ‘reprinted’ campaign rules are for a totally different campaign type, with different victories and objectives.
None of the dramatis personae are repeats either.
Yes you can fairly easily combine a Dominion campaign with a Law and Misrule campaign, it even gives tips on how to do this, but if you’re the arbitrator it’s gonna be some work.
More importantly, this is all information we had before the release date so I don’t know why Baxx thinks it’s suddenly so important.
Baxx wrote: No, but the rules for starting an alliance is in this book. Replacing the previous alliance rules which only included guilders.
They don't replace anything. If the two systems share a similar set of base rules it's because any book is written with the assumption that you own core rules and just this other book. They can't print this book and say "If you want to use these alliance rules, you'll also need this other expansion!". Outside of the core book they are attached to, supplements have to be able to stand on their own.
Instead of printing the same alliance rules in 2 books, they could have printed it correctly the first time, or printed it correctly both times. The starting alliance rules in enforcers seems to fully replace the rules in perils. I'll show you later how it should have been done when I've updated my own rules document. Or you can wait until the next official compendium is out. I can guarantee you that the first starting alliance rules will not be in it.
They don't fully replace them, as has already been explained to you. They have to reprint them because they aren't going to direct you to yet another book.
They're not going to put an incomplete set of rules in one book and tell you to buy another to get the full rules.
And I'm telling you, the enforcers starting alliance rules seems to fully replace the perils starting alliance rules. They could have put the complete set of rules in both books. If there is another compendium, we can wait and see for the 'official' ruling if one replaces the other. I wouldn't expect to see both!
You'd have to buy 4 books by now to get the "full" rules.
Just as a by-the-by, Helot gangs/cults are referencing helot cultists or chaos cultists... who knows why they had to complicate that.. do they have a mandate to include as many editing errors as possible?
Is this the meow game except with edits?
As for Corpse Grinder Cults... who knows.
There was a discussion about using space marines in Necromunda earlier. We now have official rules for something better. Most terminators can now be used pretty much wysiwyg in Necromunda:
- 2+ save with 5+ inv save - thunder hammer - storm bolter - lightning claws - (storm) shield - auto cannon - heavy flamer - power fist - power sword - power axe
Weird we haven't gotten cyclone missile launcher and assault cannons yet?!? And where is the chainfist?
Last year they removed/simplified some of the unique cult weapons. Now I wonder why.
Morghot wrote: For those who were scared about size here a video with some comparison (spoiler: they obviously fits well with all the recent release and are not bigger than a primaris )
Spoiler:
Some pics from the video for those who don't want to watch it.
I really like them and their size. I am very tempted to get some to be inquisitorial enforcers for Inquisimunda.
Put together a few Enforcers yesterday. Nice models, even though some of the poses are a bit weird. Especially the sniper guy - he’s got this strange hunched over pose. I don’t understand why they included a pair of kneeling legs that doesn’t fit the sniper torso? Anyway, that was easy enough to fix with a tiny bit of greenstuff, so now I have a kneeling sniper.
The downside of uniforms making things uniform. For stuff like that I've taken to using left over waterslide transfers on the backside of the base rings.
Baxx wrote: There was a discussion about using space marines in Necromunda earlier. We now have official rules for something better. Most terminators can now be used pretty much wysiwyg in Necromunda:
- 2+ save with 5+ inv save
- thunder hammer
- storm bolter
- lightning claws
- (storm) shield
- auto cannon
- heavy flamer
- power fist
- power sword
- power axe
You're assuming that A ) weapons that some ganger scum can afford are the same quality as SM weapons (which would probably be doubly mastercrafted by NM standards), and B ) much larger SM weapons do same damage as stuff weedy hobo with missing leg can lift. Say, SM bolters are supposed to be nearly double the caliber of 'human' ones, and while RPG and tabletop did really poor job of representing this, simple physics should tell you bullet with six times the volume should be at least slightly more powerful. That 2+ save too, by NM standards would probably be 2++ rerollable if attacked by anything less than a meltagun, and even then I'd expect TDA to have a pretty good chance of stopping a single hit from 'civilian' model.
Still relatively mass produced, and far more reliable than the ones most Gangs can access.
How much improved would an Astartes pattern Boltgun be? For a start, I'm confident an Astartes wouldn't fail ammo rolls. And given their greater strength, training and armour, would possibly have a higher rate of fire.
In terms of armour? In 2nd Ed, particularly primitive weapons (bows, crossbows etc) actually improved already high level saves, because they were so primitive. Terminators came with a stock 3+ save on 2D6, added together. Primitive Weapons upped that to a 2+ save on 2D6.
Update that to Necromunda? Remember. Gangers aren't formally trained. At all. They likely have poor fire discipline, including knowing roughly where to aim. Quite possibly they're all closer to spray and pray.
An Astartes? Head or chest shot everytime - because that's how you put someone down. So even if their Boltguns don't do more damage, it could be represented by auto-death results on the serious injury table, and a bonus to see whether you're just bleeding a bit, or have suddenly and carelessly misplaced your limbs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Heck, an Astartes likely wouldn't expend ammo on a mere gang.
Instead, just pick the odds and ends around you, and hurl them at the enemy, like an armoured Jason Voorhees.
If you wanted to include Marines in a campaign, you can absolutely do it. But you need to factor in so many things.
Astartes are terror troops for a reason. In the Underhive, you're used to shooting a couple of time in the general direction, and the enemy ducking. Astartes don't. They just keep coming at you. Again, like an armoured Jason Voorhees.
Even if you land a telling injury on an extremity? Well, again, just like an armoured Jason Voorhees, he's not slowing down. Indeed, you've just made yourself a target.
In HTH? He's not even drawn his knife. He's barely trying to block. Instead, he just picked up Dave, and like an armoured Jason Voorhees, snapped his spine, and torn him in half. With just his hands
If I was to include an Astartes, it would only be the one. Possibly a Dark Angel seeking a Fallen. And if a Gang encounters the Astartes? Bottle Tests - every turn from the get go, with significant modifiers for every gang member killed - because when an Astartes has 'had a polite word in the language of fisticuffs' you don't get to roll on the injury table, because if you're lucky, your mates can now just put you in a plant pot. You're either dead, or so horribly crippled, you'll never move again.
Astartes should be ridiculously OP. Like, insanely so. Because that's what they are. That's why a mere couple of squads can tear the heart out of an enemy army in no time at all. That's what they're for.
Heck, Gangs, including Enforcers, should be bricking it should even a Guard Veteran Squad head below the Wall. Because they know what they're doing. They've drilled together for years. They've fought horrors the average Hive Denizen can barely imagine. And they've survived.
I'm actually thinking I might switch my inquisimunda stuff over to a simplified version of Dark Heresy (the out of print RPG from FFG) adapted to be played entirely on the table top because it actually does create a combat experience that is a lot like the ideal you describe in your post. The N17 rules have been "okay" but not amazing.
The new pet Hacked cyber-mastiff got an incorrect weapon "Jaws" which differ from the existing "Jaws" for Giant Rat. The new Jaws is however identical to Sump Croc's Ferocious jaws.
The new pet Grapplehawk also has an incorrect weapon "Talons" which differ from the existing "Talons" for Khimerix & Phyrr cat.
They add a bunch of new ammos, but instead of doing it correctly, it is full of copy-paste errors.
Renaming the existing special rule "Independent" (Phyrr cat) to "Swood" for (Grapplehawk). Not exactly an error, but very bad practice. They could reprint that special rule, but didn't bother to reprint Flight, instead referencing to it in the compilation book. And changed the name to "Fly" also.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Since for some reason I didn't get my book with the bundle (delayed an extra week), I've got my enforcer kit and just kinda... looking it over.
Anyone wanna explain what the difference between a Subjugator and a Palanite is?
Extra armour layer and different wargear options. Fortunately you can get away with using the basic enforcers as subjugators since it’s all ‘just’ flak armour so it looks like cloth anyway. The big deal is that the subjugator basic gun is a grenade launcher and they are the only ones that have the option to take assault shields.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Since for some reason I didn't get my book with the bundle (delayed an extra week), I've got my enforcer kit and just kinda... looking it over.
Anyone wanna explain what the difference between a Subjugator and a Palanite is?
Extra armour layer and different wargear options. Fortunately you can get away with using the basic enforcers as subjugators since it’s all ‘just’ flak armour so it looks like cloth anyway. The big deal is that the subjugator basic gun is a grenade launcher and they are the only ones that have the option to take assault shields.
I plan on doing some pretty extensive head swaps with them as it is.
So the subjugators and palanites can be mixed, or you have to go all or nothing?
You can mix them but if the enforcer captain (gang leader) is one or the other, you have to include a couple of that type in the roster.
So you can have all regular enforcers or all subjugators or a fairly even mix but you can’t make just the captain a subjugator.
Kale wrote: That sizing in nice for badasses.
I am tempted to pick some up to be scions
Dude, you read my mind. My only question is if the sniper rifle is large enough for a transuranic arquebus. I have a bunch of Dreamforge games figures that these would mesh well with.
Kale wrote: That sizing in nice for badasses.
I am tempted to pick some up to be scions
Dude, you read my mind. My only question is if the sniper rifle is large enough for a transuranic arquebus. I have a bunch of Dreamforge games figures that these would mesh well with.
It's not big enough. For a proper arquebus you need something that is at least twice as long as the model is tall.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I have all the cards and the new book. If y'all get any questions, ask away!
Also, Book of Judgement specifically mentions Helot and Corpse Grinder gangs.
Hmm...
I would love to see a revised pit-slave specific gang, but the Corpse Grinders are mentioned in some of the big rulebook fluff as cannibalisitc worshippers of Khorne sealed for a century in Hive Arcos.
I would bet that they are indeed the next gang (going from the icon image), with the book venturing into other Hives and accompanied by a couple of different Hazardous Zone tile sets to represent these different areas. Heck, it's probably the ideal place to print the GSC rules proper, and simultaneosuly cover the hive filled with plague-ridden zomies, etc, to cover a new horde-based gameplay mode.
I emailed your favorite company about the future availability of the Underdog cards. This is the reply:
Hello there,
Thank you for contacting us!
These items are no longer available and will not be returning to stock. I wish I had better news.
While we don't know what the future holds, we've forwarded your request up to our Studio and Manufacturing Team as feedback for products our customers' would like to see return!
We hope you have a wonderful day, and if we can assist with anything further, we're certainly happy to!
I saw someone else who contacted them, and they gave the explanation that their return would be unlikely because the rules were available in other printed material.
Except they're not. The Underdog and Enforcer cards aren't printed anywhere else.
They really do need to just start putting these up on WHC as standard. They'll still sell out their pitiable little production runs to those who want the "real" physical version, and that way the rest of us can actually use all this material.
I mean, seriously, what's the point of putting time & effort into developing all this supplementary material that the vast majority of your players will never get a chance to use?
Yodhrin wrote: They really do need to just start putting these up on WHC as standard. They'll still sell out their pitiable little production runs to those who want the "real" physical version, and that way the rest of us can actually use all this material.
I mean, seriously, what's the point of putting time & effort into developing all this supplementary material that the vast majority of your players will never get a chance to use?
Because and I use the phrase very loosely that's GW current retail model any production run is expected to sell out at launch or soon after or be considered a failure. They see storing anything long term as an issue who knows if that changes when they finally finish the bigger site. I think tripping over all those orignal AoS starters for years really messed with there heads.
Obviously not main ranges but certainly boxsets and starter sets plus all the specialist and tertiary games are expected to sell out at pre order or very soon after. As I have said before they decided when looking for a new way of doing releases after the epic launch of AoS that they considered ccg's and Magic in particular the perfect way of working, lots of new release churn and burn with periodic rules/campaigns changes much closer together, one and done army releases with minimal further support if they did not do as well as expected.
Ultimately they seem to consider missing sales on short runs as the lesser of two evils compared to holding dead stock, not sure that's the right call long term but it seems to be working for now.
Yodhrin wrote: They really do need to just start putting these up on WHC as standard. They'll still sell out their pitiable little production runs to those who want the "real" physical version, and that way the rest of us can actually use all this material.
I mean, seriously, what's the point of putting time & effort into developing all this supplementary material that the vast majority of your players will never get a chance to use?
Because and I use the phrase very loosely that's GW current retail model any production run is expected to sell out at launch or soon after or be considered a failure. They see storing anything long term as an issue who knows if that changes when they finally finish the bigger site. I think tripping over all those orignal AoS starters for years really messed with there heads.
Obviously not main ranges but certainly boxsets and starter sets plus all the specialist and tertiary games are expected to sell out at pre order or very soon after. As I have said before they decided when looking for a new way of doing releases after the epic launch of AoS that they considered ccg's and Magic in particular the perfect way of working, lots of new release churn and burn with periodic rules/campaigns changes much closer together, one and done army releases with minimal further support if they did not do as well as expected.
Ultimately they seem to consider missing sales on short runs as the lesser of two evils compared to holding dead stock, not sure that's the right call long term but it seems to be working for now.
Most companies try to make 5-10% more product than they plan on selling exactly because, except for that one-in-a-million situation, when a company sells out it represents a failure to meet their customer's demands. There are customer that wanted but couldn't buy 'your' product. Its leaving money on the table and it's a business failure. Unreliable access and opportunity promotes second hand sales and piracy, both means GW loses out.
GW calls themselves a margin focused business, as opposed to price or volume focused. They simply aren't focused on selling more, they're focused on selling for the greatest immediate profit. Taken to an extreme it means if GW could they'd rather sell a single model for $30,000 than 5000 models for $10. With their focus there is simply little incentive to produce that surplus that ensure everyone who wants one can get one. Margin focus actually disincentives having that 5-10% surplus product. That 5-10% of surplus product is where you see sales prices and mark downs come in, which reduces the opportunity to get the desired margin and to continue to grow margin.
I ended up picking up some Enforcers. I'll give N17 another look, but I have people in my gaming group who have GMed and played tons of FFG era 40krpgs like Dark Heresy and there's that humble bundle for that going on now so that's likely what I'll end up using them for. A "everyone is a GM" simplified Dark Heresy game like Inq28/Inquisimunda.
I expect if you gave them Adeptus Mechanicus Vanguard helmets, you'd get something pretty close to what a Governor's or Inquisitor's security force might look like. Or alternative Guard if you use different heads for them in Kill Team.
I like them, but I've just got some Cawdor and Delaque for use in a Mechanicus force.
I think I have a bunch of vanguard heads in my bitz box. I may go with the existing heads, I may replace them. There are so many cool things you can do with necromunda gangs.
Maybe I'll get some Judge Dredd style resin heads or something. Some of the Kromlech legionary heads would also be suitably intimidating.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Heck, Gangs, including Enforcers, should be bricking it should even a Guard Veteran Squad head below the Wall. Because they know what they're doing. They've drilled together for years. They've fought horrors the average Hive Denizen can barely imagine. And they've survived.
Yup, totally agree. Also worth noting that two ex-guardsmen (The Deserter and Gunner Mortz) are bounty hunters in Necromunda already, and pretty fearsome. And they both notably have skills which would be useful to bolster a squad. (Medicae, Overseer, Mentor, Regroup)
And the deserter at least is old and crazy. A squad of these guys, well equipped and in their prime, are going to tear the heart out of a dome full of gangs. They'll have a gang rating north of 3000.
Hive militia.... eh. Not so much. I can see the guys on the Dust Wall being on par with the enforcers for training, and likely not as well equipped with personal arms. After all, Helmawr's going to want his own personal bully boys to be able to keep the PDF in check if need be. They'll have a hell of a lot of emplaced heavy weaponry pointing towards Secundus, though.
I like enforcers for their looks and lore, but I'm turned away by their fairly limited gameplay options and wargear.
On the other hand, I don't like Van Saar for their looks and lore, but I like their weapons and gameplay.
Any help, please?
Play as Venator, can use both enforcer and van saar models in the same gang. Of course you won't get 4+ bolt gun or Enforcer exclusive skill, but on the other hand you don't get crap BS, and can buy anything you want.
Apollus Kage has also been specially designed so that his head, arms and backpack are compatible with a large proportion of the Necromunda miniatures range should you wish to use them for conversions.
Morghot wrote: For those who were scared about size here a video with some comparison (spoiler: they obviously fits well with all the recent release and are not bigger than a primaris )
Spoiler:
Some pics from the video for those who don't want to watch it.
I really like them and their size. I am very tempted to get some to be inquisitorial enforcers for Inquisimunda.
Ah, bummer. I thought maybe Enforcers would let me finally build this squad without too much hassle:
I already started the marine last year, basing him on the DI gravis captain. Added a Cataphract chestpiece instead of tze cloak pice and a helmet with a crest made from the Goliath axe thing. So he's a BIG dude, actually a bit bigger than the regular grac cap, but his lanky scoutlings should only come up to his elbows. The enforcers are not as, err, thicc as Cadians and Scions or as ugly as Catachans and old scouts, but too tall.
The more one reads this book, the more bad quality is there to notice:
"Threadneedle worms can only be used once, after which they are removed from the fighter's card. When Threadneedle worms are used, roll a D6 on the Threadneedle table. The worms are then used and removed from the gang's stash"
And it doesn't end there! This is the actual table when rolling the D6:
1 - The Worms Turn 3-4 - A Few Live Worms 4-5 - A Few More Live Worms 6 - A Can Full of Worms
The authors are either reckless and don't care what state the rules are in, or they don't know how their own game works. If we end up playing any smallest part of this game the way it was originally intended, that's up to sheer luck.
Baxx wrote: The more one reads this book, the more bad quality is there to notice:
"Threadneedle worms can only be used once, after which they are removed from the fighter's card. When Threadneedle worms are used, roll a D6 on the Threadneedle table. The worms are then used and removed from the gang's stash"
And it doesn't end there! This is the actual table when rolling the D6:
1 - The Worms Turn
3-4 - A Few Live Worms
4-5 - A Few More Live Worms
6 - A Can Full of Worms
The authors are either reckless and don't care what state the rules are in, or they don't know how their own game works. If we end up playing any smallest part of this game the way it was originally intended, that's up to sheer luck.
The Threadneedle rule has multiple errors. First off, it doesn't show the distribution of the D6 correctly (no 2, double 4). And they repeated that it's usable once, then discarded.
"Threadneedle worms can only be used once, after which they are removed from the fighter's card."
"The worms are then used and removed from the gang's stash."
I'm not sure if there's an actual difference between removed from the fighter's card and removed from the gang's stash. The authors themselves have guaranteed no clue.
FW are really knocking it out of the park with the special characters.
Now? I guess I’d better support the game and buy some! Only got the Beasty Boy so far.
I've bought two boxes of Van Saar, the Ambots, Kal & Scabs and the new Enforcers. I picked up a bunch of resin before the great e-store shift. Plan on picking up more gangs because I think there are the most inspired things coming out of GW these day. I'm lukewarm towards the rules though. Plan on using most of the stuff for RPGs in the future.
PS: I wish that they would make a plastic sprue of hanger-ons and/or hired guns. Acquiring the resins and anxiety of using them on a tabletop...
Although being able to knock people about with that giant skull-head crane and get some money from the archeotech 
sense.
? Spyrer?
