Chopstick wrote: Or just make them plastic, I'm sure many people would want them cool weapons or heads for something else other than Necromunda, But it is what it is.
Yeah, I do wonder if he'll be used for Kellermorph conversions more than the actual intent of the model...
Hey, maybe we got Ambots and iconic characters because that's all FW had for those slots. What if the real constraint is sculpting, not plastic production? If these two things don't line up then there is nothing to produce. Ambot is a single robot and the other is two characters, which could have been done in down time and less troublesome than the gang sprues. And as others have pointed out FW has three (plastic) games all going at once.
Anyways, I'll pick up Kal because it's a good mini. Though wouldn't kill them to do a sprue of two or three part hanger-ons...
Isn't anyone going through the dumpsters at Nottingham for crumpled up concept sketches? Buying drink for the designers? Posting their emails on wikileaks?
The combination book, and the one with the Delaques . Apparently they took the softcover books, and put everything in the hard cover. They are nice, and good for coffee table books.
I have mine as well, but par for course, I am playing mix and match of both new and old rules, along with a house rule of keeping capured gangers stuff, and being able to sell them off to the bad doc's for parts....
I don't play Necromunda and I doubt I'll ever do, but I hope the Enforcers would be useable as a proxy to some Imperial Guard unit. I made guardswomen out of Escher models.
I reject the tyranny of rules only for Bespoke Miniatures TM and welcome this book of rules expansion without necessarily needing to have all the miniatures released.
Oh......go on then! Especially excite for the Guilder Rules. Not just new to N17 - but actually new new to Necromunda (unless they were in one of the old Citadel Journals/Underhive?)
BrookM wrote: With Kal being an upcoming plastic release, I hope his head and hair are separate pieces and not moulded onto his coat, he's just screaming for some converting, just like his previous incarnations, both in 28mm and 54mm.
As I predict head and pony tail hair are separated piece, a bit of the front bang-braid stuck to the coat.
Sprue look like there are space for some more bits, maybe a base decoration.
Now I need another Bounty Hunter duel Wielding Master Crafted Plasma Pistol, some ideas for when SG folks feeling lazy at making big kit
I reject the tyranny of rules only for Bespoke Miniatures TM and welcome this book of rules expansion without necessarily needing to have all the miniatures released.
I want the miniatures because their artwork seemed incredible to me
Look at the table of content this must be the very long awaited "Guilder expansion" and "Eye of Selene" they were teasing years ago. So many concept art, and hype.
I reject the tyranny of rules only for Bespoke Miniatures TM and welcome this book of rules expansion without necessarily needing to have all the miniatures released.
Firmly agreed. Although if that suggestion of it being GW-exclusive for the hardback is right, rather than the softback thing just being a mistake, I'll be ragin'.
Hawky wrote: I made guardswomen out of Escher models.
pix or it didn't happen
A crappy WIP shot. This is a sergeant, I also have a vox operator and a regular rifleman, but those are halfway done. I'm planning more over time. The biggest issue are their awkwardly shaped bodies, with hips swaying to the sides. A lof of green stuff is needed.
Whole torso and head are Escher. I just covered the naked parts, because my Guard is winter themed. You don't want to run around in the snow with the naked stomach, do you?
Also, I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about my figures. Feel free to contact me in PMs, if you wish to discuss anything.
Why this book? I could see your point with the discrepancies between the box set/gang war rules and those in the revised rules/gangs of the underhive books but this? it's just an expansion, like every miniatures game gets if it hangs around long enough.
jake wrote: haven't looked at Necromunda since last summer. There was talk of a revised rulebook that included all the Gang War stuff. Was that ever released?
Yes in a hardback, But it wasn't really all inclusive, I had a very hard time finding rules using it this past weekend. It was almost as poorly written as the gang war books
jake wrote: haven't looked at Necromunda since last summer. There was talk of a revised rulebook that included all the Gang War stuff. Was that ever released?
Yes in a hardback, But it wasn't really all inclusive, I had a very hard time finding rules using it this past weekend. It was almost as poorly written as the gang war books
Worth your while to look for the comprehensive list on Reddit. It is essentially a SRD, it makes life significantly more livable in the Underhive.
That said, I have the next book on preorder to sit next to my boxed set (and my damnable[in a religious context] Gang War 1-5), Kal and Stubbs, the new cards and 5 sets of sleeves.
Someone on Facebook managed to pull this image off the WarCom site. Has the 6 gang logos, as well as the Venators, GSC and Chaos Cults logos. The gate with the skull is the Enforcers, and the skull with the crossed axe type things next to it on the middle left is unaccounted for...
Hawky wrote: Whole torso and head are Escher. I just covered the naked parts, because my Guard is winter themed. You don't want to run around in the snow with the naked stomach, do you?
Also, I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about my figures. Feel free to contact me in PMs, if you wish to discuss anything.
Last time I played Skyrim, the norse women ran around in skimpy clothes. Therefore your argument against tank tops does not hold any merit.
Don´t you feel ashamed for associating 40K with realism? Last time I checked intercontinental rockets loaded with a nuke did slightly more damage than a battle cannon shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Altruizine wrote: Some very strong cards in there, comparable to some of the best stuff from the paid expansion packs.
Good to see, it will help even out balance between players that have card expansions and players who didn't/couldn't acquire any.
Just ensure that each GTC is drawn randomly. It´s good for the game and limits the amount of salty players because their heavy weapons suffered a Click event the last ten games in a row.
jake wrote: haven't looked at Necromunda since last summer. There was talk of a revised rulebook that included all the Gang War stuff. Was that ever released?
Yes in a hardback, But it wasn't really all inclusive, I had a very hard time finding rules using it this past weekend. It was almost as poorly written as the gang war books
Don´t you feel ashamed for associating 40K with realism? Last time I checked intercontinental rockets loaded with a nuke did slightly more damage than a battle cannon shot.
It’s just that the idea that Hawky’s point about not wearing crop tops in the snow ‘doesn’t hold merit’ because in Skyrim people wear skimpy clothes is ridiculous.
I doubt it’s Ash Wastes. The Ash Waste Nomads concept art was shown at the weekender and they said they were a couple of years out, from what I remember.
Has a slightly scabarous or scally look to me...
And the last mutants represented in GW minis was the 90s, a mutant kit would be a big seller outside of N18
ImAGeek wrote: I doubt it’s Ash Wastes. The Ash Waste Nomads concept art was shown at the weekender and they said they were a couple of years out, from what I remember.
other people who were present say that the designer was already making them.
also in other seminars they said that outlanders gangs would not be released this year.
ImAGeek wrote: I doubt it’s Ash Wastes. The Ash Waste Nomads concept art was shown at the weekender and they said they were a couple of years out, from what I remember.
other people who were present say that the designer was already making them.
also in other seminars they said that outlanders gangs would not be released this year.
We can not trust everything GW says
There's nothing particularly contradictory there. The models are being designed? There's at least a year before release; possibly more depending on what happens with Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis, so that doesn't necessarily contradict the statement that there's a year or more to wait. It's also possible that they'll lead into them with a Hired Gun or two, maybe that's what's being designed.
zamerion wrote: Where does the photo come from? I dont see it in warcom or facebook/instagram.
Normally this is embedded stuff that isn't shown that is being picked up by hackery-type folks or people.
I like this theory.
At the simplest, you can do it by guessing the URL - If an article on the Warhammer Community site has something like image001.jpg, image002.jpg and image004.jpg, then you can simply type in the url for image003.jpg and voila! Might as well have a look for 5,6, … as well.
There's probably also simple ways to trawl the images directory on their web server and see what files are available, too.
In this case, the images are part of the PDF; if you've got a copy of Adobe Illustratoir you can open the PDF and extract them:
Hawky wrote: Whole torso and head are Escher. I just covered the naked parts, because my Guard is winter themed. You don't want to run around in the snow with the naked stomach, do you? Also, I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about my figures. Feel free to contact me in PMs, if you wish to discuss anything.
Last time I played Skyrim, the norse women ran around in skimpy clothes. Therefore your argument against tank tops does not hold any merit.
lord_blackfang wrote: Good sculpts but they look like they belong in some dystopian anime more than 40k.
Thought something similar, but its mainly the cleanliness of the paintjob that makes them seem out of place. A dirtier/gritter paintjob would do them wonders.
The helmets are the only thing I don't care for. I'm sure FW has a facemask-less kit in the works, if it doesn't come on the sprue already.
Like how they’ve got a few influences from some of the gangs. Such as Orlock style weapons and van saar style armour along with the imperial guard smocks
I like the top heavy armour. I imagine that in the Underhive, waist high Cover is relatively easy to come by. So leaving the legs relatively unencumbered makes decent sense.
Weapons look a wee bit samey, but hoping there’s additional Shotguns on the sprue. Love a good shotgun, me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And curiously, we’re left guessing as to the Rumour Engine from a couple of weeks back...
Was shown just after the teaser video for Enforcers, but clearly not them.
They are nice models, but don't they look a little too...sci-fi? I mean, shouldn't they be wearing Judge Dredd helmets instead of generic Power Armor helmet #332?
I found what appear to be the old version of Enforcers
These guys have the better style of helmet, imo. Looks like a cross between Judge Dredd and a medieval helm, and that's totally 40k.
The new ones...not so much.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They are nice models, but don't they look a little too...sci-fi? I mean, shouldn't they be wearing Judge Dredd helmets instead of generic Power Armor helmet #332?
I found what appear to be the old version of Enforcers
These guys have the better style of helmet, imo. Looks like a cross between Judge Dredd and a medieval helm, and that's totally 40k.
The new ones...not so much.
Ahh, those are Adeptus Arbites. A department of the Adeptus Terra, charged with oversight of Imperial Policing. Enforcers are more Lord Helmawr’s personal thugs. It’s likely their higher ups will have some contact with the Arbites though.
The is how it is on most planets. Adeptus Arbites will have a precinct on Necromunda, likely one in each of at least the major hives. But they likely don’t get involved in day-to-day kneecapping, so much as ensuring those doing the day-to-day kneecapping are keeping their standards up.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They are nice models, but don't they look a little too...sci-fi? I mean, shouldn't they be wearing Judge Dredd helmets instead of generic Power Armor helmet #332?
I found what appear to be the old version of Enforcers
These guys have the better style of helmet, imo. Looks like a cross between Judge Dredd and a medieval helm, and that's totally 40k. The new ones...not so much.
Ahh, those are Adeptus Arbites. A department of the Adeptus Terra, charged with oversight of Imperial Policing. Enforcers are more Lord Helmawr’s personal thugs. It’s likely their higher ups will have some contact with the Arbites though.
The is how it is on most planets. Adeptus Arbites will have a precinct on Necromunda, likely one in each of at least the major hives. But they likely don’t get involved in day-to-day kneecapping, so much as ensuring those doing the day-to-day kneecapping are keeping their standards up.
Ah really? Google search kept telling me they were Enforcers. I guess what GW did is fine then. As long as they don't "modernize" proper Arbites it should be fine. Hopefully this means that we'll have Arbites models in the future, and GW designed the Enforcers like this to differentiate them.
Yeah, the stuff in the Underhive is way below the pay grade of an Arbite.
Anyway, yes, these are the new Enforcers. They look great (aside from the bright yellow). Interesting look of the weapons (took me a while to realise that was a Bolter). Would've liked to have seen a Heavy Stubber, but I guess we'll see.
Is the guy holding the flashlight under his pistol armed with a Hand Cannon? That looks like a bigger pistol than the others. And I wonder what the leader is armed with. It's some kind of energy gun.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, the stuff in the Underhive is way below the pay grade of an Arbite.
Anyway, yes, these are the new Enforcers. They look great (aside from the bright yellow). Interesting look of the weapons (took me a while to realise that was a Bolter). Would've liked to have seen a Heavy Stubber, but I guess we'll see.
Is the guy holding the flashlight under his pistol armed with a Hand Cannon? That looks like a bigger pistol than the others. And I wonder what the leader is armed with. It's some kind of energy gun.
I thought it was a flamer at first, but then I noticed it doesn't have a fuel tank. Maybe its some sort of taser gun? It does have a taser looking thing on the muzzle.
Starting to wonder if these are less about taking alive, and more slapping down more numerous Gangs, to help ensure the current social order is maintained?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They are nice models, but don't they look a little too...sci-fi? I mean, shouldn't they be wearing Judge Dredd helmets instead of generic Power Armor helmet #332?
I found what appear to be the old version of Enforcers
These guys have the better style of helmet, imo. Looks like a cross between Judge Dredd and a medieval helm, and that's totally 40k.
The new ones...not so much.
Ahh, those are Adeptus Arbites. A department of the Adeptus Terra, charged with oversight of Imperial Policing. Enforcers are more Lord Helmawr’s personal thugs. It’s likely their higher ups will have some contact with the Arbites though.
The is how it is on most planets. Adeptus Arbites will have a precinct on Necromunda, likely one in each of at least the major hives. But they likely don’t get involved in day-to-day kneecapping, so much as ensuring those doing the day-to-day kneecapping are keeping their standards up.
Ah really? Google search kept telling me they were Enforcers. I guess what GW did is fine then. As long as they don't "modernize" proper Arbites it should be fine.
Hopefully this means that we'll Arbites models in the future, and GW designed the Enforcers like this to differentiate them.
Google probably doesn't play 40k. I reckon these were made to be used as Enforcers in old Necromunda and labeled as such for the picture and whatever description Google uses. The helmeted models are all unaltered Arbites from the early 90s. I used to play a terribly painted squad in my Traitor Guard when Veterans had carapace and shotgun option.
The new Enforcer models really seem very bland and uninspired to me, compared to the original art and the previous miniatures they don't give off the same sort of feel at all. They especially don't feel like they "capture the classic feel of the Enforcers while modernising them", they look more like Primaris Scouts or something along those lines.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They are nice models, but don't they look a little too...sci-fi? I mean, shouldn't they be wearing Judge Dredd helmets instead of generic Power Armor helmet #332?
I found what appear to be the old version of Enforcers
These guys have the better style of helmet, imo. Looks like a cross between Judge Dredd and a medieval helm, and that's totally 40k.
The new ones...not so much.
Ahh, those are Adeptus Arbites. A department of the Adeptus Terra, charged with oversight of Imperial Policing. Enforcers are more Lord Helmawr’s personal thugs. It’s likely their higher ups will have some contact with the Arbites though.
The is how it is on most planets. Adeptus Arbites will have a precinct on Necromunda, likely one in each of at least the major hives. But they likely don’t get involved in day-to-day kneecapping, so much as ensuring those doing the day-to-day kneecapping are keeping their standards up.
Ah really? Google search kept telling me they were Enforcers. I guess what GW did is fine then. As long as they don't "modernize" proper Arbites it should be fine.
Hopefully this means that we'll Arbites models in the future, and GW designed the Enforcers like this to differentiate them.
The one without a helmet at the back is an Enforcer though, that's the Forgeworld Event exclusive redesign of them from a few years ago.
lord_blackfang wrote: Good sculpts but they look like they belong in some dystopian anime more than 40k.
Partly the colors, partly the guns. They're smaller (sensibly scaled)and take more realistic cues than we're used to seeing in 40k- it makes them look off. Some of the armor bits too, especially the shoulders.
I'm not 100% sold on them, but they look better to me than most of the Newcromunda gangs. Up there with the Orlocks, rather than the sillier ones.
If they do a unified rulebook at some point, I might think about getting into the game with these.
I get what others are saying, but I think these will stand out in the Underhive as look more Business. Little if any ostentation. Professionals with training and a job to get done.
Practical, rather than showy. I can see them double timing it through a settlement, and your standard spods knowing to get out of the way and find some cover.
A bit torn, while I think generally one cannot say they aren't pretty cool looking models, I think they miss the mark for me because they don't match up with the updated classic arbites design I was really hoping for.
The only big criticism I have not to do with my own expectations is the helmets are SO derivative of primaris that it is actually detrimental to these guys standing out as anything but weird 'almost scouts'...
These guys are awesome. I was afraid they would screw the pooch, so to speak, on this one, but well done! They contrast nicely against the existing gangs, and blend elements of other kits very cleanly. Can’t wait for August.
I'm very happy. I've been painting metal arbites and turning Van Saar into Arbites for the last year or so and can't wait to get my hands on these guys. Really like the more neutral poses, so tires of the Van Saar running pose and other dramatic options. I'm making squads not character models.
MajorTom11 wrote: I think they miss the mark for me because they don't match up with the updated classic arbites design I was really hoping for.
They're Enforcers, not Arbites.
I'm aware. I was still hoping for a more arbite like appearance... as far as i can tell they just kind of replaced arbites with enforcers in the lore of N17 correct?
Hmmmm, whilst I'm not a huge fan of the helmets (much preferring the classic style), we can hope that they may become an alt. head release further down the line.but given the primaris line, it does make kinda sense that the leading house would want to model their own guards on their armour style, to reinforce their authority and closeness to the Imperium.
I would prefer a couple of more feminine body types, but hey that's a minor complaint.
My biggest hope/concern is for a couple of new weapons to really help set this band apart. I had hoped the riot shields might have been included, but if the leader's energy weapon is something we haven't yet seen, the stub guns are heavy magnums, and perhaps a new grenade type... that would be sufficient for me,
The models that someone linked to on the previous page are Adeptus Arbites, with the possible exception of the Forge World dog handler.
The Enforcer models produced for the Fanatic edition of Necromunda look very similar (slightly less ornate and with different pauldron symbols). My suspicion is that’s because they were sculpted to be Arbites for 40k, but weren’t used (like the Farseer and Fire Dragons, the Ash Waste sniper or Nicodemus the wizard for Mordheim). That was explained as a form of Batesian Mimicry, in that the Necromunda Enforcers deliberately aped the look of the Arbites.
In N17, that’s no longer the case. The designers repeatedly stated Enforcers would look distinct from Arbites.
Arbites Enforcers Imperial law. They’re there to make sure House Helmawr pays his tithes and controls psykers, mutants and heretics. Since House Helmawr keeps a stable of psykers for its own use and is neck-deep in the Ghast trade, they will want to have as little to do as possible with the Arbites. They’ll send the Enforcers to crack down on wild Wyrds and other gangs dealing in Ghast partly because it cuts into House Helmawr’s profits and partly because it might draw unwanted attention to the official activities.
I'm...I dunno. Will really need to see the bare plastics to make a judgement on these. They seem a bit big? Like, too tall. And yeah the sorta-Primaris look to the helmets doesn't do it for me.
They just feel a bit too clean? Cool miniatures, but not what I imagined at all.
I do think they are cool models...but they are in the wrong game. They don't look like something that belongs in the Imperium, they don't look like corrupt techno-medieval space cops, and they look very generic. Like, the artist just took Gears or those Authority guys from Rage and just tweaked them a little.
They should have based them off Robocop or Dredd, not sci-fi space soldiers.
Based off the other gangs though, the heads should be separate parts right? I'm sure there's some third party manufacturer on the internet that makes not-arbites half helms.
Coolyo294 wrote: Based off the other gangs though, the heads should be separate parts right? I'm sure there's some third party manufacturer on the internet that makes not-arbites half helms.
For most of the N17 kits head swaps have been a pain. Both Van Saar and Delaque have separate neck pieces (!!) so swaping a head requires a new green stuff neck.
Orlocks IIRC have a normal neck and can take other heads easily.
Haven't picked up any of the others.
So yeah, it's plastic and with filing and green stuff anything is possible, but it may be a bit frustrating.
I do like these enforcers, might get one box. But they did surprise me. I expected them to look more thuggish, crude and corrupt. And less like neo cyberpunk special forces/swat teams. I think if they had a gritter weathered paintjob it could help. I think they will grow on me over time too.
Looking at the hand/arm poses, I guess weapon swapping would be the most "complicated" part for these.
Heads seem to be a bit more flexible to pose, it's just guessing from the image but they don't seem to be in fixed poses with separate necks as the Van Saar or Delaque ones.
Really like them, if I hadn't already 60 Van Saar Guardists, I would definitely consider using these as AM. Using AdMech Heads would probably be enough to give a more classic Arbites Look plus adds a bit of "gothic" flair some people seem to miss :-) (but I like the sci fi look.. with a different paint job and some personalized bitz they’ll perfectly fit 40k aesthetics)
Hawky wrote: Whole torso and head are Escher. I just covered the naked parts, because my Guard is winter themed. You don't want to run around in the snow with the naked stomach, do you? Also, I don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about my figures. Feel free to contact me in PMs, if you wish to discuss anything.
Last time I played Skyrim, the norse women ran around in skimpy clothes. Therefore your argument against tank tops does not hold any merit.
MajorTom11 wrote: I think they miss the mark for me because they don't match up with the updated classic arbites design I was really hoping for.
They're Enforcers, not Arbites.
I'm aware. I was still hoping for a more arbite like appearance... as far as i can tell they just kind of replaced arbites with enforcers in the lore of N17 correct?
Pretty much, yes. Original Necromunda had the option to run an Arbite squad. The remake turned them into Enforcers, and had an Enforcer gang that was just repurposed Arbite sculpts done by one of the trainee sculptors, IIRC.
I kinda hope they come with transfers for the skull eagle and kneepads. Having to freehand that on every chestplate would be a pain. And without that symbol the round spot would just look weirdly empty.
I get why they’ve gone for the Primaris-esque helmet, trying to represent the fact that Helmawr has them equipped with cutting edge Imperial technology, but I’m just not sure it works from an aesthetic point of view, muddles their silhouette.
I’ve got some scions beret heads that may have just found a new home.
Jadenim wrote: I get why they’ve gone for the Primaris-esque helmet, trying to represent the fact that Helmawr has them equipped with cutting edge Imperial technology, but I’m just not sure it works from an aesthetic point of view, muddles their silhouette.
I’ve got some scions beret heads that may have just found a new home.
That's probably a good choice. The helmets don't do it for me. The sniper pose is kind of meh. Dude is just giving some juve advice on how not to handle his boomstick "You don't bring your face to the firearm, raise the firearm to you". Or maybe anvil has some suitable heads.....
Yeah the helmets are a terrible decision for me... they could have done literally anything... why copy the very un-diverse and specific primaris helmet??
I really like the bodies etc, but those heads are a big no for me, just because of the cognitive dissonance they cause. If I were to get them it would be head-swaps across the board on the helmets.
On the other hand, those helmets would look pretty awesome on Space Marine scouts...
I like them overall. Since Primaris Space Marines are just a myth and don't really exist, the helmets are fine. I think my only gripe is the ratio of shotguns to bolters... would have been nice to have a couple fewer of the latter, and a couple more of the former.
Particularly since, given their track record so far, the inevitable Forge World weapons pack will likely be loaded with more bolters and precious little anything else.
Hopefully they are as expensive if not moreso than van saar. With all that armor, access to bolters on everyone, etc. Not to mention being fewer in number means the repetition of the poses won't be as much an issue. If you end up running like 15 of these guys then the sameyness will stand out much more than the other gangs. Makes sense the enforcers would be outnumbered by the local rabble anyhow.
Am I seriously the only person seeing shades of the old 40k Compendium Guardsman art in these Enforcers?
Spoiler:
Between that and that Goodwin "Greatcoat" sketch that gets showcased all the time, I'm feeling like this is more of an "updated" redesign of that than it is "derp mini Primaris".
Kanluwen wrote: Am I seriously the only person seeing shades of the old 40k Compendium Guardsman art in these Enforcers?
Spoiler:
Between that and that Goodwin "Greatcoat" sketch that gets showcased all the time, I'm feeling like this is more of an "updated" redesign of that than it is "derp mini Primaris".
Thank you. The flare to the base of the helmet etc. have to be intentional nods. Literally the only part thats remotely comparable to primaris is the respirator grill style.
Plus the respirator grill style isn't unique to Primaris anyway!
It has appeared on the "dog nosed" MkIV helmet since at least the 3rd edition Space Marine plastics. MkX is clearly based on MkIV with the helmet. The FW Elysian drop troopers also have a very similar grill design, and honestly, I thought Elysian before I thought Primaris.
As both Marines and Elysians use that kind of design, it isn't weird to be a fairly widespread aesthetic.
Why does people call those helmets "Primaris helmets", when Primaris Helmets are Mark IV Helmets? I mean, I understand that people is trying to paint them as some kind of "too modern/primaris are ugly" argument, but... the helmet of a primaris marine is actually the most classical piece of the look of an intercessor.
Kanluwen wrote: Am I seriously the only person seeing shades of the old 40k Compendium Guardsman art in these Enforcers?
Spoiler:
Between that and that Goodwin "Greatcoat" sketch that gets showcased all the time, I'm feeling like this is more of an "updated" redesign of that than it is "derp mini Primaris".
I thought that helmet looked familiar, but I couldn't put my finger on it. It is very similar to the Goodwin Greatcoat Guard sketch. I always loved that one, and coincidentally I love these guys. I hope they get Kill Team rules or something, as I don't play Necromunda. I have considered picking it back up since there isn't 7 rulebooks anymore and what not.
Galas wrote: Why does people call those helmets "Primaris helmets", when Primaris Helmets are Mark IV Helmets? I mean, I understand that people is trying to paint them as some kind of "too modern/primaris are ugly" argument, but... the helmet of a primaris marine is actually the most classical piece of the look of an intercessor.
Primaris mk X helmets are not the same as mk IV. The mk IV had more of a snout.
insaniak wrote: Primaris mk X helmets are not the same as mk IV. The mk IV had more of a snout.
I would imagine that the Enforcer helmets don't need as large a respirator, hence no snout.
And from an in-universe point of view, wouldn't the Enforcer helmets predate the Mk X helmets, meaning the Mk X helmets actually look like the Enforcer helmets
That would be awesome, but their isn't a profile for veterans (or shotguns in the IG list even). IG are super limited to what they can take, as they are only allowed stuff currently in plastic. It makes this guy one .
I might try to use them as Scions and counts the bolters as Hellguns and the Shotguns as Volleyguns or something.
Kanluwen wrote:Am I seriously the only person seeing shades of the old 40k Compendium Guardsman art in these Enforcers?
Spoiler:
Between that and that Goodwin "Greatcoat" sketch that gets showcased all the time, I'm feeling like this is more of an "updated" redesign of that than it is "derp mini Primaris".
I don't see any resemblance, neither with the old Guard trooper nor the Goodwin sketch. At least not more as with Cadians or Scouts. And I actually like the models, just not the helmets - but that's easy to fix.
Galas wrote:Why does people call those helmets "Primaris helmets", when Primaris Helmets are Mark IV Helmets? I mean, I understand that people is trying to paint them as some kind of "too modern/primaris are ugly" argument, but... the helmet and are now the normof a primaris marine is actually the most classical piece of the look of an intercessor.
Because these helmets were an unusual sight in the past and are now the norm in a range of GWs bestselling models. And, well, the Intercessors look like normal Marines to me, just larger and with more detail.
Any pics of them next to existing gangs yet? Looking at then I just can stop thinking that they look up-scaled compared to the current gangs. I really don’t want primaris scaled models for necromunda.
ah64pilot5 wrote: Any pics of them next to existing gangs yet? Looking at then I just can stop thinking that they look up-scaled compared to the current gangs. I really don’t want primaris scaled models for necromunda.
Nothing about them has suggested they're bigger.
The look is slightly thrown by the bigger chestplates and the vambraces going past the elbow.
It's highlighted really well in this photo:
They have bigger armor, look at their neck, it tuck inside the armor, I doubt they're any bigger than the other.
They wouldn't want to make bigger models even if they want to, they have a tiny sprue to fit in 5 dude and weapons options. Primaris have the budget to make 5 dudes, barely any option, on 2 sprues.
Honestly it took someone pointing out their similarity to Out-of-Scale Marines for me to see the Primaris nature of the helmets. Honestly I don't mind them.
insaniak wrote: Particularly since, given their track record so far, the inevitable Forge World weapons pack will likely be loaded with more bolters and precious little anything else.
With the high-tech redesign of the Van Saar, the Enforcers pretty much had to end up looking high tech too. The Imperial Commander's muscle would have to be at least as well equipped.
Like many others, I feel the helmet is off, but that's an easy fix.
Thargrim wrote: Hopefully they are as expensive if not moreso than van saar. With all that armor, access to bolters on everyone, etc. Not to mention being fewer in number means the repetition of the poses won't be as much an issue. If you end up running like 15 of these guys then the sameyness will stand out much more than the other gangs. Makes sense the enforcers would be outnumbered by the local rabble anyhow.
Yeah, they could be a very strong gang.
I feel like 4+ starting saves and discounted shotguns are highly likely. And as you say, boltgun access is a great for a gang. If those get the house discount instead of shotguns it will be very nasty.
Thargrim wrote: Hopefully they are as expensive if not moreso than van saar. With all that armor, access to bolters on everyone, etc. Not to mention being fewer in number means the repetition of the poses won't be as much an issue. If you end up running like 15 of these guys then the sameyness will stand out much more than the other gangs. Makes sense the enforcers would be outnumbered by the local rabble anyhow.
IIRC, enforcers in old necromunda could only ever field five dudes in a battle to maintain fairness because of how stupidly well trained and equipped each one was.
Coolyo294 wrote: IIRC, enforcers in old necromunda could only ever field five dudes in a battle to maintain fairness because of how stupidly well trained and equipped each one was.
The equipment disparity is definitely less obvious now that every gang and their dog have access to an armoury that would make a Strormtrooper jealous, so I'm guessing the disparity will come from their stats and abilities.
I always found that the Initiative penalty from having Carapace Armour made Enforcers very hard to use. Hampering them further by limiting them to 5 members made that all the worse.
Kanluwen wrote: Aren't these guys supposed to be really well equipped and outfitted?
Makes sense then that they wouldn't look like trash people.
I don't think people want "trash people", just a bit more, I dunno grungy?
The problem I have with their look is the same as the issue I have with most of the modern gangs - they're geared up like they're the personal guard of the Big Important Person they're nominally ultimately loyal to. The regular gangs are so well equipped with all-unique gear they must be top-tier House Militia gangs, and I like the grubbier, scrappier feel of the classic game where the gangs are downhive thugs trying to make good. These Enforcers seem like the sort of thing you'd see patrolling The Spire or manning The Wall, but given the new fluff has these guys everywhere on the planet including keeping order in Underhive settlements it strains the brain a little to believe they're all super-elite highly-equipped tacticool bros, because we have to be talking about millions of troopers overall, and hundreds of thousands in Hive Primus alone.
I think a lot of it comes down to the paintjob, the chest-circle, and the helmet design. If the helmet were closer to the concept sketch(ie open-faced) or had a less sci-fi respirator, and the odd almost Tau-ish circle was gone or replaced with a molded-on version of the Helmawr crest, and the paintjob was a bit more "these guys have seen some gak", they wouldn't read as quite so "modern".
Regardless, they don't look like they'll be that hard to convert to look more like the concept art, with a bit of resculpting.
Thargrim wrote: Hopefully they are as expensive if not moreso than van saar. With all that armor, access to bolters on everyone, etc. Not to mention being fewer in number means the repetition of the poses won't be as much an issue. If you end up running like 15 of these guys then the sameyness will stand out much more than the other gangs. Makes sense the enforcers would be outnumbered by the local rabble anyhow.
If I remember right, they were always deliberately on the slightly broken side - especially early game - since they didn't have to spend money on their equipment, they couldn't get territory on the campaign map, etc. They were meant as a curveball for the GM to get involved in games and put some pressure on the best performing players, especially if they were stomping everybody.
It's interesting to see how wants for N17 have changed though. I remember almost nobody really played Enforcers, but with the remake I see more posts about "I'll maybe pick the game up when I can be Arbites/Enforcers" than anything else, although I guess that has a lot to do with 40k players want to stick to a vaguely military/well-equipped theme rather than dirty gangsters which is kind of ironic. Considering the Space Marine helmets on them I wouldn't be surprised if FW picked up on that, which is why we ended up with Not!PrimarisScout models.
Always remember the alternative head sources: Anvil Industry, Puppetswar and Mad Robot all have heads that look great. Puppetswar in particular for those who want more of a Judge Dredd feel.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh but guys! That's just what Enforcers look like now.
You need to accept it.
*waits*
I don't hate them overall, I just hate the helmets. Like a lot. However considering all bar one head use them, I'm optimistic the inevitable FW head upgrades will include different styles, ideally the old 'riot' style..
ah64pilot5 wrote: Any pics of them next to existing gangs yet? Looking at then I just can stop thinking that they look up-scaled compared to the current gangs. I really don’t want primaris scaled models for necromunda.
Nothing about them has suggested they're bigger.
The look is slightly thrown by the bigger chestplates and the vambraces going past the elbow.
It's highlighted really well in this photo:
Spoiler:
Maybe that is it. But also the way they almost don’t fit in the base.
But that is true of a lot of GW minis, and mostly dependent on the pose of the legs. I can think of several GSC models that hit the edge of a 25mm in the exact same way.
The helmets are the only real departure from the old Enforcers. It’s a pretty minimal retcon compared to some of the original gangs. The helmets definitely have a big influence on their appearance but heads are also the easiest thing to replace from your bits box or third party companies.
Seems a pretty big departure to me. Full body Carapace armor to a body glove with just greaves, vambraces and breastplace. And that doesn't even touch the stylistic differences in the remaining armor, or what the extra cloth does to the entire look, particularly at the waist.
I actually like the new aesthetic a lot more (in this case) but Newcromunda seemingly auto-generates 'but they aren't that different' posts that are just incorrect and puzzling.
If anyone else has bought a digital copy of Book of Perils from Warhammer Digital, have you been able to download it yet?
Just bought a copy, but only getting a 404 message whenever I try to download... and their customer sevice doesn't work on Saturdays, apparently (which is ridiculous, seeing as it is their own release day, when they will likely most be needed. *sigh*)
Liking the rules for Guild Alliances although not sure about the randomness as to whether their representatives deign to join any given battle (although some missions will see them join automatically).
Also, it's sometimes not clear how many bodyguards a Guild brings. The wording on the Promethium Guild suggests it could be either 1 or 2.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh but guys! That's just what Enforcers look like now.
You need to accept it.
*waits*
You call those banana clip things on Eldar shuriken catapults... Real shuriken catapults have disc magazines and are very short for boarding actions--because all Eldar were pirates. Stupid Aspect warrior retcon.
That good enough for you?
I love those Enforcers. Sorry Van Saar, I think we should see other people.
BrookM wrote: I'm sure it'll be a resin addition added some time in the next two to five years through FW.
Chortle...
Indeed, how long until they release models in support of the Merchant Guilds and new Bounty Hunters. I'm guessing we do conversions for the former and while the latter arrive in dribs and drabs.
My, those are... yellow. I mean, really YELLOW. Love the worn paint on the kneepads, though.
Colour aside the sniper arm is deeply odd. Overall - they look good. They look uniform, as well, which fits cops! Something in a more restrained colour scheme would probably look very good.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh but guys! That's just what Enforcers look like now.
You need to accept it.
*waits*
It's what one house's enforcers look like.
Enforcers can look like anything at all.
I thought Enforcers had gone full "House Helmawar" in N17? I mean, individual houses will have enforcers but I though in general those were what we used to consider gangs, who've gone (back) to being house militia.
The helmets are the only real departure from the old Enforcers. It’s a pretty minimal retcon compared to some of the original gangs. The helmets definitely have a big influence on their appearance but heads are also the easiest thing to replace from your bits box or third party companies.
Are we looking at the same models? They have rounded half-carapace torso armour over a guard tunic, football player style shoulder pads instead of pseudo space marine ones and the greaves look nothing alike. They have a (very) vague thematic similarity, but that's about it.
I was considering the black/red color scheme. Keeping the helmets, and painting the lenses white then glazing with guilliman blue. For me it's either that or going with the yellow, but again changing the lenses cause the yellow on yellow is a bit much.
Hopefully these aren't accompanied by another 35 dollar book. I'd rather they did a spike magazine pamphlet thing that costs 12-14 bucks and is focused entirely on just their rules and lore. If they keep pumping out books like perils of the underhive the book-keeping will be insane before you know it.
Albertorius wrote: I like them quite a bit as a Newcromunda kit, but it also looks like a really versatile kit. I could see myself using them for multiple projects.
I does seem light on variant loadouts though.
Squinting at them I would say you get 4 drum mags bolter/shotguns/whatever those are, 3 revolvers arm sets and then the regular shotgun, the hero shotgun and the sniper rifle (per sprue, so double that in a box). Not a great selection of weapons but perfectly adequate. What IG player doesn't have a few dozen grenade launchers in his bitz box?
Yup, thought so. Just dumping the pseudoPrimaris masks and using a more muted colourscheme is already a big improvement. Ugh, converting that many heads is going to be a huge pain in the arse.
EDIT: And at least speaking for myself, the reason the pseudoPrimaris masks are annoying is I thought Necromunda was still set in 40K, and we'd be allowed to avoid all the Cawly Sue/Imperium Totes Still Grimdarkicus Honest stuff.
Yup, thought so. Just dumping the pseudoPrimaris masks and using a more muted colourscheme is already a big improvement. Ugh, converting that many heads is going to be a huge pain in the arse.
EDIT: And at least speaking for myself, the reason the pseudoPrimaris masks are annoying is I thought Necromunda was still set in 40K, and we'd be allowed to avoid all the Cawly Sue/Imperium Totes Still Grimdarkicus Honest stuff.
It’s 3 slits in the bottom of a helmet (which are also present on mkiv armour). They hardly tie Necromunda into 40k anymore than it was already.
The Puppetswar judge dredd heads look phenomenal... with one exception - the lack of female oprions. If anyone has experience modding the mods, how tricky would it be to replace the unmasked part of the face with a female counterpart...?
They're not as crazy ornamental as Arbites, nor do they scream "grimdark law enforcement"*. Maybe with way more batons, riot shields, stun prods, electrified mancatchers and flame, er, water throwers. And the poses are mostly boring. I like them more as naval armsmen or something like that, not as enforcers.
*Khorne Bloodbound models have wayyy more manacles than those guys...
That’s what is annoying me about them. I haven’t been able to put my finger on it. They look to military and not police enough. They look like they are a hit squad. They should have more of a look of breaching habs and dragged out dangerous scum. Riot shields, helmets with visors and clubs, along with shot guns. Perhaps some stun weapons and the like. They should look more like PSU officers IMO. I feel they have a more American sci-fi “far future” ascetic than a British grimy reality one.
It’s 3 slits in the bottom of a helmet (which are also present on mkiv armour). They hardly tie Necromunda into 40k anymore than it was already.
Come now. Really?
I’m not saying they don’t look alike. I just don’t get how a helmet design, that also shares similarities with a much older helmet design, really ties Necromunda into a time any more than it was anyway. It’s not like the helmet design is rooted in a specific time, seeing as it was designed just after the Heresy, very similar to a design from the Heresy.
You seem to be conflating lore justifications with design aesthetics. It's eerily similar to the recent MkX, and looks nothing like previous Enforcer / Arbites designs, so I'm not sure that holds up anyway. Look, I'm not actually slagging it off or attacking anybody, I'm just pointing out that it's an *incredibly* similar design, and to me that smacks an (arguably lazy and unimaginative) attempt to move the range further and further into the nu-aestheitc of 40k main and that it sticks out.
Yep. That sounds like the kind of thing a super-corrupt Great House would use to snuff out troublesome elements of their society under the guise of 'keeping the peace'.
Steve steveson wrote: That’s what is annoying me about them. I haven’t been able to put my finger on it. They look to military and not police enough. They look like they are a hit squad. They should have more of a look of breaching habs and dragged out dangerous scum. Riot shields, helmets with visors and clubs, along with shot guns. Perhaps some stun weapons and the like. They should look more like PSU officers IMO. I feel they have a more American sci-fi “far future” ascetic than a British grimy reality one.
I think a hit squad is probably exactly what they are, if you annoy lord helmaw enough for him to send is personal guard after you the chance for debate, talking or bribes is already over. All they're going to be concerned about is taking out the trouble makers as fast as possible (and leaving enough of the body to identify to prove that they've done the job)
MajorTom11 wrote: Yeah the helmets are a terrible decision for me... they could have done literally anything... why copy the very un-diverse and specific primaris helmet??
I really like the bodies etc, but those heads are a big no for me, just because of the cognitive dissonance they cause. If I were to get them it would be head-swaps across the board on the helmets.
Yeah, it´s a dumb move but GW did something similar in the past. The sigmarines are for instance just BA sanguinary guard who happened to lose their pistols.
MajorTom11 wrote: Yeah the helmets are a terrible decision for me... they could have done literally anything... why copy the very un-diverse and specific primaris helmet??
I really like the bodies etc, but those heads are a big no for me, just because of the cognitive dissonance they cause. If I were to get them it would be head-swaps across the board on the helmets.
Yeah, it´s a dumb move but GW did something similar in the past. The sigmarines are for instance just BA sanguinary guard who happened to lose their pistols.
And yet, Stormcast Eternals are popular, so apparently not such a dumb move.
I like the helmets. They are similar enough to Primaris helmets that it shows an imperial signature, but different enough to show that they are not standard issue military items, which fit the enforcer role nicely.
I think the color choice is definitely not the greatest, but a better paint job than I could do.
If I did make a unit of allied imperial guardsmen to go with a Primaris army I think these would fit in great.
Steve steveson wrote: That’s what is annoying me about them. I haven’t been able to put my finger on it. They look to military and not police enough. They look like they are a hit squad. They should have more of a look of breaching habs and dragged out dangerous scum. Riot shields, helmets with visors and clubs, along with shot guns. Perhaps some stun weapons and the like. They should look more like PSU officers IMO. I feel they have a more American sci-fi “far future” ascetic than a British grimy reality one.
I think a hit squad is probably exactly what they are, if you annoy lord helmaw enough for him to send is personal guard after you the chance for debate, talking or bribes is already over. All they're going to be concerned about is taking out the trouble makers as fast as possible (and leaving enough of the body to identify to prove that they've done the job)
If they are supposed to be the force of law and order, no matter how facist, I would prefer an aesthetic that speaks or quelling riots and breaching the strongholds of people who get too big, rather than shooting rivals dead in the night. Why leave a body with hints that your enforcers will kill them when you could drag them out, put them on”trial” and string them up as a warning. I would have thought that underhive riots would be a far bigger problem, and if a single person or small group from the underhive is problematic enough to come to the planetary governors attention then he would have far better tools. It just feels like GW have the same understanding of law enforcement as they do of the military.
Theophony wrote: I like the helmets. They are similar enough to Primaris helmets that it shows an imperial signature, but different enough to show that they are not standard issue military items, which fit the enforcer role nicely.
I think the color choice is definitely not the greatest, but a better paint job than I could do.
If I did make a unit of allied imperial guardsmen to go with a Primaris army I think these would fit in great.
I feel that without an official color for House Helmawr, a 'royal' color like yellow (gold) or purple is the best choice for the Enforcers.
If they are supposed to be the force of law and order, no matter how facist, I would prefer an aesthetic that speaks or quelling riots and breaching the strongholds of people who get too big, rather than shooting rivals dead in the night. Why leave a body with hints that your enforcers will kill them when you could drag them out, put them on”trial” and string them up as a warning. I would have thought that underhive riots would be a far bigger problem, and if a single person or small group from the underhive is problematic enough to come to the planetary governors attention then he would have far better tools. It just feels like GW have the same understanding of law enforcement as they do of the military.
"Riots in the underhive" is the gangs war, the gangs took care of it. Not very converning imo. If through some miracle the underhive gangs unite together, or a Genestealer Patriarch appear and try to climb into the upper hive, then yes that'd be the riot that will involve also the Imperial House, and he Arbites.
The underhive however, is a known place for criminals from the upper hive to hide, that's when the enforcer had to come in, they work alongside with Delaque intel network to find their target. Of course there're Bounty Hunter/Venators gang but those are usually the plan B and are unreliable. Even in the trailer they showed the Enforcer go hunting for criminal.
Binabik15 wrote: They're not as crazy ornamental as Arbites, nor do they scream "grimdark law enforcement"*. Maybe with way more batons, riot shields, stun prods, electrified mancatchers and flame, er, water throwers. And the poses are mostly boring. I like them more as naval armsmen or something like that, not as enforcers.
*Khorne Bloodbound models have wayyy more manacles than those guys...
This is the problem i have as well. They just don't feel like they give off the right sort of feel, they could be Primaris Scouts or Tempestus Scions or something like Navy troopers and wouldn't look out of place in other more futuristic sci-fi miniature games or video games like Gears of War. There's no real sense of them being a combination of brutal dystopian law-enforcers, Helmawr's personal army, Hive guards etc and all the other roles Enforcers have, they just look like "generic sci-fi soldiers"...which isn't what they're meant to be. There's just not enough of a harsh, imposing. unforgiving grimdark law-enforcement feel with the design they went for to feel like they represent what Enforcers are meant to be.
If I ever get round to Necromunda, they wouldn’t be something I’d be opposed to getting, heads are fine really - though for uniqueness rather than hatred I’d remove the helmets for some interesting heads..
I personally love these guys and don't understand the hate. I will agree that they don't really look like space police, but they really aren't police as far as I'm concerned. I don't imagine these guys get sent down to break up skirmishes in the Underhive unless they directly interfere with hive leadership's interests. These guys in my mind would only be utilized by Helmawr and his regional leaders/officers to stop gang fights that are doing things like disturbing the economy/trade/other vital functions of the hive and to take out criminals that are a threat to those functions or the people in control of them.
I don't see them handing out parking violations and getting called in for drunken disorderly calls. These guys get sent down to put down riots and or take out problematic gangs. I don't think they really need things like shock batons and suppressive gear, they aren't meant to take prisoners. They are really just a well equipped private mercenary army doing Helmawr's bidding rather than law officers.
At least that's how I have always differentiated enforcers and arbites in what their chief function is.
Well, for one thing, phrasing it as "Arbites/Enforcers" basically misses the point. Arbites =/= Enforcers. One protects Imperial Law, and would never descend into the Underhive unless there was a very serious reason. Enforcers enforce the local law of the Great Houses/whomever is paying them the most.
Sabotage! wrote: I personally love these guys and don't understand the hate.
Because people don't like how they look, which is apparently legitimate criticism of the Enforcers but I get told to shut up when I say that I don't like the new "Delaques".
Sabotage! wrote: I personally love these guys and don't understand the hate.
Because people don't like how they look, which is apparently legitimate criticism of the Enforcers but I get told to shut up when I say that I don't like the new "Delaques".
So who knows...
It's totally fair to not like them because one doesn't like how they look, I guess I'm just confused by the people that are saying they don't look enough like space police/ arbites and they don't like them because of that. FW has been pretty clear from the get go that they would be Enforcers and specifically not Arbites. I could see how you wouldn't like the new Delaques if you liked the older ones, because they look nothing alike. The older ones were just bald dudes with trench coats and shades. The new ones are like cybernetically enhanced spindly creatures. Personally I love them, but I wasn't a fan of the old ones.
I see enforcers being the "law arm" of (a planets) PDF - and in the universe of 40k, is there really a reason why they wouldn't be equipped as a military regiment?
I mean, I do get it to a point- these guys don't look like the Arbites, and that's what alot of people were wanting (myself included).
BUT the whole argument of looking "wrong" seems silly to me - the silly looking figures are cadians and catachans; these guys look very much at home on a necromunda that also produces gear fit for the van saar, and hunting rigs for spyrers.
Taken in a vaccum without the burdern of expectatons, they look amazing. I'm not a huge fan of the helmets, BUT with a little green stuff on the helmet mask vents will turn them into looking very medieval (and probably perfect for the foot soldiers who accompany knights and thier pilots)
Adeptus Arbites= police force for the Hive in general. Enforces the will of the Imperium as it pertains to the populace of the Hive.
Enforcers="police" force only working for the interests of the Noble House that they are in the employ of. Does whatever their bosses tell them to. They are like if a local government hired Private Military Contractors to enforce the politicians personal interests (especially the shady stuff), while the local police force (the Arbites) performed their usual public service dealing with general crimes and unrest.
The real mistake is attaching the word "police" to Enforcers. They are extremely well equipped private military thugs, separate from the PDF or the Guard.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well, for one thing, phrasing it as "Arbites/Enforcers" basically misses the point. Arbites =/= Enforcers. One protects Imperial Law, and would never descend into the Underhive unless there was a very serious reason. Enforcers enforce the local law of the Great Houses/whomever is paying them the most.
Well see, I was going on the idea these models are arbites, just a different name.
Sorry to rub you the wrong way.
AegisGrimm wrote: Adeptus Arbites= police force for the Hive in general. Enforces the will of the Imperium as it pertains to the populace of the Hive.
Enforcers="police" force only working for the interests of the Noble House that they are in the employ of. Does whatever their bosses tell them to. They are like if a local government hired Private Military Contractors to enforce the politicians personal interests (especially the shady stuff), while the local police force (the Arbites) performed their usual public service dealing with general crimes and unrest.
The real mistake is attaching the word "police" to Enforcers. They are extremely well equipped private military thugs, separate from the PDF or the Guard.
I don't think Arbiters deal with everyday crimes.
They are too high for that. They are the Polices of the Imperium in dealing with unrest... in goverment, and high echelons of society, and all of that. Theres no civilian movement that could spark any kind of problem for the Imperium as a whole. If a planet falls in anarchy and chaos, as long as the new goverment keeps paying their tithes to the Imperium then all is fine.
AegisGrimm wrote: Adeptus Arbites= police force for the Hive in general. Enforces the will of the Imperium as it pertains to the populace of the Hive.
Enforcers="police" force only working for the interests of the Noble House that they are in the employ of. Does whatever their bosses tell them to. They are like if a local government hired Private Military Contractors to enforce the politicians personal interests (especially the shady stuff), while the local police force (the Arbites) performed their usual public service dealing with general crimes and unrest.
The real mistake is attaching the word "police" to Enforcers. They are extremely well equipped private military thugs, separate from the PDF or the Guard.
I don't think Arbiters deal with everyday crimes.
They are too high for that. They are the Polices of the Imperium in dealing with unrest... in goverment, and high echelons of society, and all of that. Theres no civilian movement that could spark any kind of problem for the Imperium as a whole. If a planet falls in anarchy and chaos, as long as the new goverment keeps paying their tithes to the Imperium then all is fine.
The Adeptus Arbites enforce Imperial justice on worlds, even judging and killing the lord on the planet if he is not following imperial rule. They are brought from off-world and serve on planets where they have no ties, no family and no financial concern. They are terrible swift justice.
The enforcers are a straight up goon squad that are either distant relatives to house Hemwar, or gangers that worked for the house while it was taking control of hive Primas. They enforce Lord Hemwar’s will upon the citizens of Hive Primus.
Actually? Depends on what you mean by common design elements. A fully operational STC was supposed to be able to account for local material availability and the crafter’s skill level and specifications to come up with a design on the fly. That’s why working STCs are the holy grail of the Adeptus Mechanicus; they were much much more than a big ol’ database of pre-designed blueprints. The deluxe models even included factory modules to build prototypes or one-offs. Unfortunately all they have ever found are broken mechanisms, and damaged copies of copies of copies of printed blueprints or the equivalent record on something like a USB drive generated by an STC.
So if Joe-Bob the Tanith tree herder wants a critter gun but all he’s got is an old spade, a big hammer, all the nal-wood he can eat and lots of enthusiasm, he’s going to get a very different design to Aroon al-Janeth the Tallarn master smith with a full workshop, years of experience and whatever materials he wants (this being pre-Heresy Tallarn).
Of course the systems probably did have a specific set of components like power and data interfaces that would be reused over and over but aesthetically they could be very different.
Whilst I would have liked to see the Mund Vase effects tied into the new historical context of (the former) House Mung, I do like the selection of classic elements brought back in the Book of Perils.
But the scenery special rules and effects - couldn't have asked for better. Exactly the sort of depth and detail I hoped might eventually come and worthy of the admission price alone.
Love the new ammo types - but still think reclaimed wepsonry and gunk ammo should have range penalties imposed.
Sabotage! wrote: I personally love these guys and don't understand the hate.
Because people don't like how they look, which is apparently legitimate criticism of the Enforcers but I get told to shut up when I say that I don't like the new "Delaques".
So who knows...
It's totally fair to not like them because one doesn't like how they look, I guess I'm just confused by the people that are saying they don't look enough like space police/ arbites and they don't like them because of that. FW has been pretty clear from the get go that they would be Enforcers and specifically not Arbites. I could see how you wouldn't like the new Delaques if you liked the older ones, because they look nothing alike. The older ones were just bald dudes with trench coats and shades. The new ones are like cybernetically enhanced spindly creatures. Personally I love them, but I wasn't a fan of the old ones.
The issue is you're mixing up several distinct reasons people aren't into them.
Some people dislike the fact they don't look like Arbites, because the Fanatic-era models for Enforcers looked like Arbites. These are the folk who're equivalent to HBMCs "Delaque don't look exactly the same, so I don't like them" stance.
Some people dislike the fact they look more cyberpunk/animoo than grim-gothic.
Some people dislike the fact there's not much about them that says "space police". And they are meant to be that - Enforcers are the personal thugs of Helmawr, yes, but in the same sense that the police in a corrupt regime are the personal thugs of the corrupt leader. Enforcers certainly do the bidding of Helmawr when he decides a settlement has gotten too big for its boots, or a gang is disrupting the flow of wealth to the Spire, or a rival's Underhive enterprise needs to be undermined, but they also man The Wall, patrol and keep order in Hive City, even in the new rules descend down into the Underhive and keep Helmawr's order in the bigger settlements there.
AegisGrimm wrote: Adeptus Arbites= police force for the Hive in general. Enforces the will of the Imperium as it pertains to the populace of the Hive.
Enforcers="police" force only working for the interests of the Noble House that they are in the employ of. Does whatever their bosses tell them to. They are like if a local government hired Private Military Contractors to enforce the politicians personal interests (especially the shady stuff), while the local police force (the Arbites) performed their usual public service dealing with general crimes and unrest.
The real mistake is attaching the word "police" to Enforcers. They are extremely well equipped private military thugs, separate from the PDF or the Guard.
I disagree. The Arbites aren't the Hive's police at all, they only care about enforcing Imperial law, which 99 times out of 100 involves the ruling elite not the plebs of the hive. Other than the occasional officer going around checking compliance with psyker purges and mutant registration, the Arbites would have nothing to do with the running of the hive or its citizenry. Meanwhile, the Enforcers aren't so much a PMC as they are more along the lines of a city watch - they're law enforcers first & foremost, but since the highest law is "whatever the feudal lord says it is", they're also said lord's personal thugs. If a citizen commits almost any "normal" crime, it would be an Enforcer who shows up to deal with it. It's Enforcers who keep order among the worker populace of Hive City. It's Enforcers who man the checkpoints.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they are more kind of like one of those Private Security Companies from Shadowrun, like Knight Errant or Lone Star than a police force?
No, Adeptus Arbites are imperial agents who have no ties or loyalty to anyone on the planet. If they find out the imperial governor is dealing illegally with aliens, mutants or renegades they will kick down the governors front door and drag his butt outside or in front of imperial courts (probably on another planet) fighting even the PDF to get the job done.
The enforcers are the governors guard (so yes a private security company) who are working under the governors authority to deal with issues he wants resolved. They are better equipped and probably have a good lawyer, but if caught with their hand in the cookie jar they will be disavowed in a heart beat. To a space marine or any off planet authority these guys are no better than gangers with a famous friend.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they are more kind of like one of those Private Security Companies from Shadowrun, like Knight Errant or Lone Star than a police force?
No, Adeptus Arbites are imperial agents who have no ties or loyalty to anyone on the planet. If they find out the imperial governor is dealing illegally with aliens, mutants or renegades they will kick down the governors front door and drag his butt outside or in front of imperial courts (probably on another planet) fighting even the PDF to get the job done.
The enforcers are the governors guard (so yes a private security company) who are working under the governors authority to deal with issues he wants resolved. They are better equipped and probably have a good lawyer, but if caught with their hand in the cookie jar they will be disavowed in a heart beat. To a space marine or any off planet authority these guys are no better than gangers with a famous friend.
Yeah, I was talking about Enforcers. I always thought Arbites to be more like the FBI or the KGB.
Sabotage! wrote: I personally love these guys and don't understand the hate.
Because people don't like how they look, which is apparently legitimate criticism of the Enforcers but I get told to shut up when I say that I don't like the new "Delaques".
So who knows...
It's totally fair to not like them because one doesn't like how they look, I guess I'm just confused by the people that are saying they don't look enough like space police/ arbites and they don't like them because of that. FW has been pretty clear from the get go that they would be Enforcers and specifically not Arbites. I could see how you wouldn't like the new Delaques if you liked the older ones, because they look nothing alike. The older ones were just bald dudes with trench coats and shades. The new ones are like cybernetically enhanced spindly creatures. Personally I love them, but I wasn't a fan of the old ones.
The issue is you're mixing up several distinct reasons people aren't into them.
Some people dislike the fact they don't look like Arbites, because the Fanatic-era models for Enforcers looked like Arbites. These are the folk who're equivalent to HBMCs "Delaque don't look exactly the same, so I don't like them" stance.
Some people dislike the fact they look more cyberpunk/animoo than grim-gothic.
Some people dislike the fact there's not much about them that says "space police". And they are meant to be that - Enforcers are the personal thugs of Helmawr, yes, but in the same sense that the police in a corrupt regime are the personal thugs of the corrupt leader. Enforcers certainly do the bidding of Helmawr when he decides a settlement has gotten too big for its boots, or a gang is disrupting the flow of wealth to the Spire, or a rival's Underhive enterprise needs to be undermined, but they also man The Wall, patrol and keep order in Hive City, even in the new rules descend down into the Underhive and keep Helmawr's order in the bigger settlements there.
AegisGrimm wrote: Adeptus Arbites= police force for the Hive in general. Enforces the will of the Imperium as it pertains to the populace of the Hive.
Enforcers="police" force only working for the interests of the Noble House that they are in the employ of. Does whatever their bosses tell them to. They are like if a local government hired Private Military Contractors to enforce the politicians personal interests (especially the shady stuff), while the local police force (the Arbites) performed their usual public service dealing with general crimes and unrest.
The real mistake is attaching the word "police" to Enforcers. They are extremely well equipped private military thugs, separate from the PDF or the Guard.
I disagree. The Arbites aren't the Hive's police at all, they only care about enforcing Imperial law, which 99 times out of 100 involves the ruling elite not the plebs of the hive. Other than the occasional officer going around checking compliance with psyker purges and mutant registration, the Arbites would have nothing to do with the running of the hive or its citizenry. Meanwhile, the Enforcers aren't so much a PMC as they are more along the lines of a city watch - they're law enforcers first & foremost, but since the highest law is "whatever the feudal lord says it is", they're also said lord's personal thugs. If a citizen commits almost any "normal" crime, it would be an Enforcer who shows up to deal with it. It's Enforcers who keep order among the worker populace of Hive City. It's Enforcers who man the checkpoints.
Exactly this. I think calling me a hater is rather strong. I'm just not a fan of the aesthetic and think they missed the mark. Made them look too cyberpunk/animoo. I feel like they have the look of private thugs rather than law enforcement. Helmawr is ultimately the legal and rightful ruler of the planet. He may be a complete bastard, but legally so.
The Arbites should have a different feeling. The way I see it is Arbites are fedral law enforcement and Enforcers are local. Like FBI vs City police, many similarities, but also many differences.
They look great. The helmets are a bit primarisy though. If I ever do Scouts or Chapter Serfs (IG) for my primaris marines, I'll be using those helmets.
I think Skitarii helmets would be a good way to get more Arbites look, if that's what people want. Skitarii helmets are also pretty easy to convert to to a non respirator configuration, if you have spare bare heads. The bottom of the visor is a straight line, so it is easy to cut. That would give you the classic Judge Dredd look.
The Infinity/animuness is mostly the paintjob. With more muted dirty colours and some weathering they're fine.
Crimson wrote: They look great. The helmets are a bit primarisy though. If I ever do Scouts or Chapter Serfs (IG) for my primaris marines, I'll be using those helmets.
I think Skitarii helmets would be a good way to get more Arbites look, if that's what people want. Skitarii helmets are also pretty easy to convert to to a non respirator configuration, if you have spare bare heads. The bottom of the visor is a straight line, so it is easy to cut. That would give you the classic Judge Dredd look.
The Infinity/animuness is mostly the paintjob. With more muted dirty colours and some weathering they're fine.
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
I like the because they're plain (don't want to upstage the boss, their employer may be decked out in all his baroque finery and will look even more impressive with these plain uniformed lot in the background)
Looking really smart with no wear/grunge etc shows their employer has enough money and power to keep them that way
I think of the enforcers as a surgical strike squad employed to remove problems permenantly and fast and I think they fit really well for that
I don't expect them (well these elite ones anyway) to be involved in putting down riots, dragging suspects in for questioning etc, think firearms officers/SWAT as opposed to regular police who proabably have less armour, no rebreathers, shock sticks, riot shields etc
I certainly don't think these represent a run of the mill hive police officer and if that's what you want them for I'd agree they're not going to fit
Whole thing wouldn't be so bad if GW already had a plastic Arbites kit that people who prefer Enforcers in knockoff Arbites uniforms could use in place of generic sci-fi soldiers, 2019 edition. Everyone could just use the kit they prefer.
Geifer wrote: Whole thing wouldn't be so bad if GW already had a plastic Arbites kit that people who prefer Enforcers in knockoff Arbites uniforms could use in place of generic sci-fi soldiers, 2019 edition. Everyone could just use the kit they prefer.
That seems like a weird statement. Why not just have two different versions of every kit, so people who don't like one can just use the other?
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
What should of feel should the Enforcers have, there really isn't an established look for them. They have smoke grenades, they have handcuffs, they have riot armour. They don't even look particularly cyberpunky, the armour is pretty low tech looking, apart the helmet. I think the paintjob is really throwing the people off here.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I like the because they're plain (don't want to upstage the boss, their employer may be decked out in all his baroque finery and will look even more impressive with these plain uniformed lot in the background)
Looking really smart with no wear/grunge etc shows their employer has enough money and power to keep them that way
I think of the enforcers as a surgical strike squad employed to remove problems permenantly and fast and I think they fit really well for that
I don't expect them (well these elite ones anyway) to be involved in putting down riots, dragging suspects in for questioning etc, think firearms officers/SWAT as opposed to regular police who proabably have less armour, no rebreathers, shock sticks, riot shields etc
I certainly don't think these represent a run of the mill hive police officer and if that's what you want them for I'd agree they're not going to fit
These models are the basic hive law-enforcement though. They aren't the equivalent of a SWAT team or an elite squad something like that, these are just basic enforcers with their typical gear in the same way all the other Necromunda models are a common example of whichever house they belong to.
Geifer wrote: Whole thing wouldn't be so bad if GW already had a plastic Arbites kit that people who prefer Enforcers in knockoff Arbites uniforms could use in place of generic sci-fi soldiers, 2019 edition. Everyone could just use the kit they prefer.
That seems like a weird statement. Why not just have two different versions of every kit, so people who don't like one can just use the other?
We had Enforcers. They looked like knockoff Arbites. No matter the story behind that decision, until a couple of days ago that was the established look of Enforcers for Necromunda and it's reasonable for people who liked and bought into the idea to see it continued.
GW, obviously, had other plans. But unlike for instance 3rd ed Stormtroopers that were entirely replaced with Tempestus Scions, even though old Enforcers now got replaced by new Enforcers in much the same way the Adeptus Arbites from whom they derived their look still exists as a separate entity. And if there was a kit, it would be easy to preserve the old look of Enforcers, if you so chose. All it would require is for GW to make a kit. Not necessarily even for Necromunda. It's not even unreasonable to ask for that. We have Rogue Trader models. We have Genestealer Cults. Arbites can wage war on the same scale and there's no excuse why we don't have models for them. But since we're talking about GW and much the same could be said about the Inquisition...
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I like the because they're plain (don't want to upstage the boss, their employer may be decked out in all his baroque finery and will look even more impressive with these plain uniformed lot in the background)
Looking really smart with no wear/grunge etc shows their employer has enough money and power to keep them that way
I think of the enforcers as a surgical strike squad employed to remove problems permenantly and fast and I think they fit really well for that
I don't expect them (well these elite ones anyway) to be involved in putting down riots, dragging suspects in for questioning etc, think firearms officers/SWAT as opposed to regular police who proabably have less armour, no rebreathers, shock sticks, riot shields etc
I certainly don't think these represent a run of the mill hive police officer and if that's what you want them for I'd agree they're not going to fit
These models are the basic hive law-enforcement though. They aren't the equivalent of a SWAT team or an elite squad something like that, these are just basic enforcers with their typical gear in the same way all the other Necromunda models are a common example of whichever house they belong to.
To be honest, barring Cawdor, I always see all the gangs as the middle-high tier of the pack. I don't think all Goliat use all those advanced industrial equipement and has weapons so good.
As other poster pointed out, aesthetically, Newcromunda is like on a higher tier in the power-scale compared with Oldcromunda. Or at least thats my impresion.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I like the because they're plain (don't want to upstage the boss, their employer may be decked out in all his baroque finery and will look even more impressive with these plain uniformed lot in the background)
Looking really smart with no wear/grunge etc shows their employer has enough money and power to keep them that way
I think of the enforcers as a surgical strike squad employed to remove problems permenantly and fast and I think they fit really well for that
I don't expect them (well these elite ones anyway) to be involved in putting down riots, dragging suspects in for questioning etc, think firearms officers/SWAT as opposed to regular police who proabably have less armour, no rebreathers, shock sticks, riot shields etc
I certainly don't think these represent a run of the mill hive police officer and if that's what you want them for I'd agree they're not going to fit
These models are the basic hive law-enforcement though. They aren't the equivalent of a SWAT team or an elite squad something like that, these are just basic enforcers with their typical gear in the same way all the other Necromunda models are a common example of whichever house they belong to.
To be honest, barring Cawdor, I always see all the gangs as the middle-high tier of the pack. I don't think all Goliat use all those advanced industrial equipement and has weapons so good.
As other poster pointed out, aesthetically, Newcromunda is like on a higher tier in the power-scale compared with Oldcromunda. Or at least thats my impresion.
Eh, it's not so much that they're "elite" as it is there's not - IMO obviously - enough design cues there that say "grim-gothic cops", even if they're supposed to be the equivalent of SWAT. Even losing the trenchcoat from the concept art, I think they'd really benefit from the more "traditional" looking breastplate over the high-tech American football armour, and keeping the Fifth Element-style shoulder lamp(even if they modernised/shrank it a bit) would help too.
We'll find out anyway, since that's what I plan to do to them when I get around to buying some.
I like the new Enforcers. I think the shape of the helmets are reminiscent of the Rogue Trader era arbites miniatures, where these just have more pronounced respirators. Their chest plates are reminiscent of the very slab profile armor of the old Enforcers but something like the scavenged power armor in the Fallout video games. There armor has the feel of being something remade, rather than just made, an aesthetic and theme that defines Necromunda. I hope FW eventually gives them a Cyber Mastiff... Maybe they can just finally re-release to the general public the Enforcer with mastiff model they used to sell as a event model.
Galas wrote: How is the armor they are wearing high tech when is basically the same as what the Cadians are wearing? Even with the clothes under it.
I mean theres nothing about those miniatures that is high tech. They are wearing CLOTHES. Van Saar are high techs, this bad boys aren't.
If you look closely...
1. There is some sort of tech on their back, power supply or vox caster or life support... something pretty significant.
2. They have some sort of read out display on their arm... something they have standard you only see on some specialists and tempestus scions.
3. Their helmet and respirators are much more compact than cadians, despite likely being carapace armor.
While Van Saar's are high tech, much of what they're wearing is a body suit that's part of their life support system to counter the effects of the poisoning from operating their less than perfect stc. Even the Van Saars have cloth showing from under their armor. What are the Enforcers missing? -Armor on their thighs and upper arms, but what armor they do have is noticeably bulkier. You look at the previous Enforcer minis they don't really have armor on their upper arms, and when you look at the original RT era Arbites models they aren't all that heavily armored either.
Even if Van Saars are more high tech, why should Enforcers be any more advanced than what the new models look like? Van Saar have technology that in certain ways rivals what the Mechanicus has. If Necromunda Enforcers have any significant technology it comes from the Van Saar, from the Mechanicus, or from one of the various corporations operating under a license from the Mechanicus. Its unlikely Van Saar would want to sell anything too much more advanced than what they use to the guys who might kick in their door... similar to how the Mechanicus hold back alot of tech... and those companies producing technology under Mechanicus license are similarly going to be restrained by the mechanicus.
On some level Enforcers are just specialized planetary defense forces tasked with maintaining order and their equipment would generally reflect something at that Imperial Guard level. Arbites, like the SoB and Tempestus Scions are trained at the Schola Progenium, where we could expect the quality of equipment the Arbites have is similar to those two. So Enforcers have to fall into that range... less than Tempestus Scions, but more than basic guardsmen... and so we end up with these Enforcers that look like they have torso armor from the power armor in the Fallout games, dated and scavenged yet providing significant protection.
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
I like the toned down appearance of them. It leaves a lot open for simple customization.
I like the basic scifi feel to them too. Sometimes in a world of so much flair, it's nice to see something simple.
aka_mythos wrote: .. and so we end up with these Enforcers that look like they have torso armor from the power armor in the Fallout games, dated and scavenged yet providing significant protection.
You know, its funny you mention that, because with a black color scheme and a few modifications to their helmets they can probably pass as Enclave in Advanced Power Armor (X-01 power armor, for those who are more familiar with the Bethesda games)
until a couple of days ago that was the established look of Enforcers for Necromunda and it's reasonable for people who liked and bought into the idea to see it continued.
Except that they've been saying for two years now that the "knockoff Arbites" look isn't the case with the new Necromunda. It's been known since before the change to the look of Houses Delaque and Cawdor, after all.
I mean, people don't like these; fair enough. But I don't see how them suddenly revealing these miniatures puts those of you who want the old look in any worse a position than you were last week.
Actually, some minor conversion work using plastic Space Marine arms and you're 80% of the way to plastic Arbites anyway; just need heads, and I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
until a couple of days ago that was the established look of Enforcers for Necromunda and it's reasonable for people who liked and bought into the idea to see it continued.
Except that they've been saying for two years now that the "knockoff Arbites" look isn't the case with the new Necromunda. It's been known since before the change to the look of Houses Delaque and Cawdor, after all.
I mean, people don't like these; fair enough. But I don't see how them suddenly revealing these miniatures puts those of you who want the old look in any worse a position than you were last week.
Actually, some minor conversion work using plastic Space Marine arms and you're 80% of the way to plastic Arbites anyway; just need heads, and I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
Arbites don't wear power armor though, do they? I thought they wore carapace?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they are more kind of like one of those Private Security Companies from Shadowrun, like Knight Errant or Lone Star than a police force?
They quick answer is (always) whatever the plot requires.
My head canon is law enforcement is something like...
Arbites - Imperial level crimes like trafficking with Xenos, unchecked mutation/psychic activity, crimes by the governor or nobility, crimes involving the planetary tithe, crimes involving Imperial property. This brief is limited by their manpower since each one is trained for years off world and shipped to a planet where they have no connections.
Enforcers - Governor-level crimes interfering with the governor or nobles' business OR doing anything that might attract attention from the Arbites or even worse the
Local law enforcement - anything from upstanding local sheriffs keeping the peace to a gang of thugs. Mostly interested in keeping the peace and lining their pockets and not stopping anything that might attract the attention of the above factions.
until a couple of days ago that was the established look of Enforcers for Necromunda and it's reasonable for people who liked and bought into the idea to see it continued.
Except that they've been saying for two years now that the "knockoff Arbites" look isn't the case with the new Necromunda. It's been known since before the change to the look of Houses Delaque and Cawdor, after all.
I mean, people don't like these; fair enough. But I don't see how them suddenly revealing these miniatures puts those of you who want the old look in any worse a position than you were last week.
Actually, some minor conversion work using plastic Space Marine arms and you're 80% of the way to plastic Arbites anyway; just need heads, and I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
Arbites don't wear power armor though, do they? I thought they wore carapace?
Yeah, but it’s full body carapace, including the arms and legs. Shouldn’t have the expansion joints that power armour does though, so might have to carve that out or use scout forearms.
I think Arbites will eventually get models. When GW started this new Necromunda and did presentations on their direction and intent for the game in the years to come... its to build on it. An exploration of sorts from the underhive all the way up and out of the hive cities and even all the way to a space dock. Arbites don't typically deal with underhive problems, but as the books work their way up and get into aspects of higher levels of the hive city it wouldn't be hard to imagine Arbites showing up taking an interest in the Genestealer cult that's growing in force... or something similar.
Speculation, but imagine for this game to have staying power... we have all these underhive gangs, but as you work your way up the hive you have the larger organizations these gangs are subordinate too. One day we might get something representing these larger organizations, "elite" gangs or gang members... Maybe there are "elite" enforcers or maybe those problems the elite enforcers would deal with, start to look more like Arbites problems.
until a couple of days ago that was the established look of Enforcers for Necromunda and it's reasonable for people who liked and bought into the idea to see it continued.
Except that they've been saying for two years now that the "knockoff Arbites" look isn't the case with the new Necromunda. It's been known since before the change to the look of Houses Delaque and Cawdor, after all.
I mean, people don't like these; fair enough. But I don't see how them suddenly revealing these miniatures puts those of you who want the old look in any worse a position than you were last week.
Actually, some minor conversion work using plastic Space Marine arms and you're 80% of the way to plastic Arbites anyway; just need heads, and I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
Arbites don't wear power armor though, do they? I thought they wore carapace?
No, but that's got nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The original Arbites concept art stated that the models would use the same plastic arms that the then-new mark 7 Space Marines used (although without shoulder pads). The arms from current Space Marines are still exactly right to use in conversions on any of the two Arbites ranges or the old metal Enforcers. They're slightly more heavily armoured than the ones on the models (which only have elbow and forearm armour over sleeves), but it doesn't matter; fully-enclosed armour looks much the same whether it's carapace or powered. The same should be true of using them with the torsos/legs of these models, although depending on how the shoulders are constructed, you might have to chop away some plastic there.
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
What should of feel should the Enforcers have, there really isn't an established look for them. They have smoke grenades, they have handcuffs, they have riot armour. They don't even look particularly cyberpunky, the armour is pretty low tech looking, apart the helmet. I think the paintjob is really throwing the people off here.
Crimson wrote: They look great. The helmets are a bit primarisy though. If I ever do Scouts or Chapter Serfs (IG) for my primaris marines, I'll be using those helmets.
I think Skitarii helmets would be a good way to get more Arbites look, if that's what people want. Skitarii helmets are also pretty easy to convert to to a non respirator configuration, if you have spare bare heads. The bottom of the visor is a straight line, so it is easy to cut. That would give you the classic Judge Dredd look.
The Infinity/animuness is mostly the paintjob. With more muted dirty colours and some weathering they're fine.
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
Well, the other one being bandied around is Naval armsmen, who are literal space police onboard Imperial Navy ships, so I think people just have different ideas as to what would be a good representation of specific concepts
Haighus wrote: Well, the other one being bandied around is Naval armsmen, who are literal space police onboard Imperial Navy ships, so I think people just have different ideas as to what would be a good representation of specific concepts
Armsmen more meet the traditional definition of marines, not police.
Haighus wrote: Well, the other one being bandied around is Naval armsmen, who are literal space police onboard Imperial Navy ships, so I think people just have different ideas as to what would be a good representation of specific concepts
Armsmen more meet the traditional definition of marines, not police.
Most of the fluff available for them has them in the role of enforcers of shipboard discipline. They are the only enlisted body on-board Navy ships allowed to carry weapons at all times. As such, they are relatively well treated and used to put down insurrection and police the ratings- particularly if the ship uses galley slaves or large numbers of press-ganged sailors.
Armsmen do also form the core of the ship's fighting complement when in boarding situations (an elite core to lead hastily armed ratings when the weapon lockers are opened), and act as a bodyguard for officers on missions (such as press-gangings), but their day-to-day tasks mostly involve maintaining order when under way. Historic marines are not too dissimilar to this role of shipboard security either to be frank.
From your link:
Historically, tasks undertaken by marines have included: helping maintain discipline and order aboard the ship (reflecting the pressed nature of the ships' company and the risk of mutiny), the boarding of vessels during combat or capture of prize ships, and providing manpower for raiding ashore in support of the naval objectives.
Historically, tasks undertaken by marines have included: helping maintain discipline and order aboard the ship (reflecting the pressed nature of the ships' company and the risk of mutiny), the boarding of vessels during combat or capture of prize ships, and providing manpower for raiding ashore in support of the naval objectives.
Historically, tasks undertaken by marines have included: helping maintain discipline and order aboard the ship (reflecting the pressed nature of the ships' company and the risk of mutiny), the boarding of vessels during combat or capture of prize ships, and providing manpower for raiding ashore in support of the naval objectives.
So Armsmen are more properly marines, not police.
Yeah, but historical marines, not modern marines. They are not just soldiers, but a combination of police and soldiers on board a ship. They do literally police space ships in 40k. Modern marines do very little policing onboard ships, because modern navies are vastly more disciplined than their historic counterparts.
Flinty wrote: Because EU police are so much more frail...
Spoiler:
I like how you managed to get every single word wrong in such a short sentence. First, it's not police. It's Gendarmerie Mobile, French armed forces unit (something that would be PDF in 40K terms) sent to football match during terror scare - and even so, only one of them has a submachine gun and besides tactical vests, they all have plain everyday civilian-like clothing and police gear. How that in any equates to US police (you know, people from internal affairs, not the army) walking around clad like cockroaches in surplus full body military armor, waving military rifles, and driving frakking surplus army mine-resistant APCs and IFVs [link] to show everyone who is da boss I have no idea.
Here, have actual picture of EU police officer. Scaaary, isn't it?
Spoiler:
In fact, you can argue that compared to their US counterparts enforcers are not nearly militarized enough, for that they would need a few lascannons and multi-meltas in a squad driving around in Land Raider while clad in terminator suits or thereabouts to even get close
Me too.
Even if just for the amusement value out of the assumption that US cops are perpetually armed and armored to the teeth is gospel truth, even if the EU side is apparently up for debate.
It is amazingly silly, even for dakka.
By the Way some Enforcers should learn how to protect their neck and throat against incoming fire...not all of them have their head low in the armor...they are showing their bare throat no Neckseals at all ;-) I like that...more unique miniatures.
It's quite important because it shows the range of ways modern police forces can be organised which then informs peoples response to the Enforcer models.
The French Gendermerie National and the Italian Caribineri are both explicitly police forces while still being part of the armed forces. French special anti terrorist forces GIGN are part of the police.
SCO19 of the met police are somewhat scarier than our friendly policing-by-consent ladies with ice creams.
American police are routinely armed, but then so are the German police and the Police Service of Northern Ireland. Each then has their specialist more militaristic armed wings for when the gal really hits the fan.
All of this is resonating quite well with all of the descriptions of the Enforcers used above.
Interesting that so many people share my view of using them as naval armsmen. Sounds like many cool conversion floating around to steal ideas from
I always liked the Skitarii Vanguard helmets plus XYZ bodies look. They look good on *everything*. I have a few corps de pompière dudes made from the plastic commissar body and those helmets, plus equipment. They're a battlefield technical rescue team (and I should really finish them). Why am bringing them up? Because they're inspired by Infinity's Loup-Garou and I think some design cues from them would look ace on the Enforcers. A long (jet black trench) coat for at least the squad leaders and impassive visor faces, yes, please.
I also like the Arbites from the Kouzes blog (http://leskouzes.blogspot.com/2017/01/adeptus-arbites.html?m=1)...should my phone link that properly. Those more rugged dudes all with shield and batons for the riot squad with the more slender Enforcers as regular/fire support unit, both with Vanguard helmets or blank visors could look good together. Maybe short coat "skirts" on the Enforcers and a full coat on the leader. And tons of gadgets.
Problem is that the straps under their cuirasses make this look (https://eternalhunt.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/jb_enforcer.jpg) harder to do because it slims their torsi down towards their waist. Instead of just adding the coat under the belt you'd have to bulk them about above and that is boring busy work.
I really want some sinister fascist lawmen to go with my selfless rescue paramedics/fire fighters, though, so I *will* make them work for me.
Binabik15 wrote: Interesting that so many people share my view of using them as naval armsmen.
I was planning to use the Armsmen from rogue trader as Enforcers at one point.
Incidentally, I'm not surprised by the confusion between "Enforcer" and "Arbites", given that GW have mixed them up over the years. That John Blanche picture that's floating around this thread is titled "Enforcer", but I believe he was using that to mean a member of the Adeptus Arbites. Likewise Matthew Farrer's Enforcer trilogy is about a member of the Adeptus Arbites. It was only, I think, when the Enforcers squad was added to Necromunda by Fanatic that the difference was established firmly (and the Ciaphas Cain novels suggest that different planets call their own local law enforcement forces many different names, but "Enforcers" is the general term used by the more widely travelled, and they sometimes erroneously use the term for the Arbites too).
In Necromunda that was probably because they had already done rules for actual, proper Adeptus Arbites squads, and they were significantly more powerful and intended as tools for a campaign arbitrator to use; they all ignored ammo checks and bottle tests, had four or five skills each, all came equipped with bolt pistols, frag, krak and choke grenades as basic equipment and caused Fear (Terror in Juves!). The rues also stated that the arbitrator should feel free to give them whatever extra equipment their mission might require. The rules were published in the book that compiled the White Dwarf articles (although they'd not previously been in a White Dwarf).
In a campaign of the current game, I'd be tempted to include an Arbites presence if there's a few Enforcers players, especially if psykers or ghast make an appearance.
This isn't so much directed at just you in particular, but i'm curious why people think they look great as Enforcers. Not to imply they're bad models, they're definitely high quality and awesome looking in themselves, but I don't quite see what makes them good as what they're meant to be (Brutal Grimdark Law enforcement & Hive guards) compared to just quite generic sci-fi soldiers. When so many are saying things like "They'd make good Primaris Scouts" or "Iron Warrior Cultists" or "Tempestus scions" those really aren't along the same sort of lines as the feel i think Enforcers should give. Obviously people are allowed to like them and I do too, just not so much as Enforcers.
What should of feel should the Enforcers have, there really isn't an established look for them. They have smoke grenades, they have handcuffs, they have riot armour. They don't even look particularly cyberpunky, the armour is pretty low tech looking, apart the helmet. I think the paintjob is really throwing the people off here.
Obviously it's subjective, but to me the sort of feel I thought Enforcers should give based on their description and what they do isn't just a heavily-armed SWAT-like look, but rather a design that shows they're a combination of a well-equipped militarized force and the role of secret police (just not so secretive). Their function in the Hive goes beyond just combat, they consolidate the power of the planetary Governor and carry out the will of the ruling house. They should have a look that shows they're for something more than just going around fighting, something that projects power, authority and fear to an extent. The original enforcer designs (and Arbites) have a unforgiving, harsh look due to their full-body carapace armour and a helmet that showed their eyes and mouth at most. The concept a few pages back of the greatcoat Enforcer with armour ontop also felt like a brutal, stern design. Both designs that to me aren't just "These guys know how to fight" but "These guys are 'police' under the control of the ruling house and carry out what they say is law" - the design they went for doesn't really do much to show off the latter to me, as it's pretty much just a generic future soldier design. It's missing the important distinction between what I'd expect of militarized sci-fi police and that of militarized grimdark sci-fi police for a deadly, corrupt society.
Basically, the design of Enforcers should be something that sets them apart from both police and soldiers, more towards the grimdark law-enforcement side where you look at them and it's apparant that they aren't just heavily equipped, but they're overall an oppressive tool of an dystopian, authoritarian/totalitarian regime.
Binabik15 wrote: Interesting that so many people share my view of using them as naval armsmen.
I was planning to use the Armsmen from rogue trader as Enforcers at one point.
Incidentally, I'm not surprised by the confusion between "Enforcer" and "Arbites", given that GW have mixed them up over the years. That John Blanche picture that's floating around this thread is titled "Enforcer", but I believe he was using that to mean a member of the Adeptus Arbites. Likewise Matthew Farrer's Enforcer trilogy is about a member of the Adeptus Arbites. It was only, I think, when the Enforcers squad was added to Necromunda by Fanatic that the difference was established firmly (and the Ciaphas Cain novels suggest that different planets call their own local law enforcement forces many different names, but "Enforcers" is the general term used by the more widely travelled, and they sometimes erroneously use the term for the Arbites too).
In Necromunda that was probably because they had already done rules for actual, proper Adeptus Arbites squads, and they were significantly more powerful and intended as tools for a campaign arbitrator to use; they all ignored ammo checks and bottle tests, had four or five skills each, all came equipped with bolt pistols, frag, krak and choke grenades as basic equipment and caused Fear (Terror in Juves!). The rues also stated that the arbitrator should feel free to give them whatever extra equipment their mission might require. The rules were published in the book that compiled the White Dwarf articles (although they'd not previously been in a White Dwarf).
In a campaign of the current game, I'd be tempted to include an Arbites presence if there's a few Enforcers players, especially if psykers or ghast make an appearance.
Does anyone have a picture of the 2d edition Necromunda Enforcer/ Arbite Squad? One of the things glaringly missing is the robot mastiffs.
Oh yeah,
"Every hive on Necromunda is divided into Precincts, each with its own fortified courthouse and a substantial number of Enforcers. In addition there are thousands of small Precinct Houses scattered through the hive, each of which is manned by a ten-man Enforcer Precinct squad. Necromunda is a vital planet to the Imperium, but population pressures mean that it is in constant danger of devolving into anarchy and civil war. The Enforcers maintain a constant vigilance from their Courthouses and Precinct Houses, constantly on the watch for signs of disloyalty, subversion, or criminality. They are grim and uncompromising reminders of Lord Helmawr’s authority."
-Reference- NECROMUNDA 2nd edition Page 57, ( That as the Necromunda that was only the books.)
I removed the rest of the post, because I misposted incorrect info.
.
butt outside or in front of imperial courts (probably on another planet) fighting even the PDF to get the job done.
Arbites - Imperial level crimes like trafficking with Xenos, unchecked mutation/psychic activity, crimes by the governor or nobility, crimes involving the planetary tithe, crimes involving Imperial property. This brief is limited by their manpower since each one is trained for years off world and shipped to a planet where they have no connections.
Enforcers - Governor-level crimes interfering with the governor or nobles' business OR doing anything that might attract attention from the Arbites or even worse the 
Local law enforcement - anything from upstanding local sheriffs keeping the peace to a gang of thugs. Mostly interested in keeping the peace and lining their pockets and not stopping anything that might attract the attention of the above factions.
