And now i can just hear the "TAKE MY MONEY" comments from people (some on my FB groups have already started dancing in the streets, planning how many hundreds to drop on it when it's out). At least it's not more Space Marines, SOB really do deserve it after all these years.
GW 2016 is like meeting your old frigid girlfriend in a bar, and she's drunk, had a makeover, and is telling you dirty jokes. Suddenly you remember why you loved her.
We'll take your Magnus leak and raise you plastic sisters, take that internet.
Does this mean we're just a plastic Thunderhawk away from the apocalypse?
As far as I can tell the sprue they showed is the chaos vehicle conversion sprue. Does this being in the recycling hint at something else? Let the speculation run wild!
Tamereth wrote: GW 2016 is like meeting your old frigid girlfriend in a bar, and she's drunk, had a makeover, and is telling you dirty jokes. Suddenly you remember why you loved her.
We'll take your Magnus leak and raise you plastic sisters, take that internet.
Does this mean we're just a plastic Thunderhawk away from the apocalypse?
Squats are confirmed to still be around as they team up with Tau in Battlefleet Armada.
The end of the world seems near, just need confirmation of Plastic Warhound Titan and the circle will be complete.
Dammit! I shouldn't have backed that TGG kickstarter for battle sisters. I knew that by the time I got them GW would announce superior plastic sisters :(
Seems like 40 shoulder pads on the sprue, enough for 20 marines. This could be the prospero sprue as I don't think they'd have that many on a normal kit. As the top of the sprue has been cut off we can assume there is another sprue the same size as this one, probably with most of the torsos and legs on it as there are so few on this sprue.
Seems like 40 shoulder pads on the sprue, enough for 20 marines. This could be the prospero sprue as I don't think they'd have that many on a normal kit. As the top of the sprue has been cut off we can assume there is another sprue the same size as this one, probably with most of the torsos and legs on it as there are so few on this sprue.
It's not 40 shoulders, half of them are bodies (backs and fronts).
Alpharius wrote: I mean, I hope it is real too, but that came across more as a joke than a 'real confirmation'...
I would hope that GW (especially the new, friendlier seeming GW) would realize that joking about that and then not releasing it would probably build them a lot of negative feeling from some of their fans, not the sort of thing you want to do if you are just working on cleaning out years of bad blood.
Yeah. I think they are currently niche, absolutely. I would put money on them no longer being niche if there was a full plastic release with a revamp and revitalization of the army.
rollawaythestone wrote: Yeah. I think they are currently niche, absolutely. I would put money on them no longer being niche if there was a full plastic release with a revamp and revitalization of the army.
Agreed. Like dark eldar when they got their full revamp.
At the end of the vid they mentioned plastic sisters.
It's not much of a confirmation. At any rate, it sounds like we won't hear anything else bout them for months (sometime early next year?).
Regardless, GW *have* to do Sisters at some point in time. They've been plumbing the depths of their ranges for some time now, releasing classic concepts such as the imperial knights and genestealer cult, so it's to be expected they'd make it back...just sometime after every other remote concept has been checked off!
Seems like 40 shoulder pads on the sprue, enough for 20 marines. This could be the prospero sprue as I don't think they'd have that many on a normal kit. As the top of the sprue has been cut off we can assume there is another sprue the same size as this one, probably with most of the torsos and legs on it as there are so few on this sprue.
Quick count says 20 Pads, they are all in the lower left part, the upper left part are torsos, the right side legs, some armes and weapons
Alpharius wrote: I mean, I hope it is real too, but that came across more as a joke than a 'real confirmation'...
For arguments sake, even if it is real, it'll still suffer the problems that have always dogged Sisters of Battle - they're such a niche army.
I appreciate the fact they have a loyal following and people have spent a lot of time and money on them over the years,
but metal, plastic, it makes no difference if nobody is buying them, and they can't sustain themselves in the long run...
Your position is flawed.
Genestealer cultists back in the day had a fraction of the number of players that even SOB did and they just got a hefty release with some intriguing rules mechanics. I know many people buying and playing them now that hadn't even heard of them until his release. The old timers bought them to be sure, but legions of little Timmys did too.
SOB will do very well, because in 2016 they will get some silly good formations and rules and the player base has proven that they will play with anything as long as it can win a tourney or three. The sisters bandwagon will have plenty of seats on it for all the new converts, many of whom probably made fun of them and their loyal longtime fans right up until they decided to jump on board.
Bob over on War of Sigmar said its not a troll - SoB are coming it seems.
Love this new direction of GW that video was ace even though those aren't my factions [although plastic sisters might be tempting...I have a thing for chicks with guns..]
Runic wrote: As if they would tease with something like plastic SoB and not mean it. It would be bad PR and a poor move.
Anyone who believes it to be a wind up or trolling needs to think a bit more rationally and tone the bitterness level a few notches down.
They're coming, fact.
Right. They've released Imperial Knights. They've released a faction that hasn't been touched since 2nd edition- Genestealer Cults. They fleshed out the one remaining militant Ordos branch- the Deathwatch. They've now gone back the Heresy and are releasing 30k kits. Short of entirely fleshing out a new army from a background faction like the Hrud, what else exactly are they going to make from previous editions that *isn't* Sisters of Battle?
Very happy with the news, that will be two armies at my house.. my loyal sisters, and my other half plans to make hers fallen Khorne to go with her traitor/CSM army.
I have over 10 thousand points of fully painted and based Sisters. A full FoC, transports and immolators as well as 5 of that god forbidden mix of metal and plastic brick of an exorcist. and i will buy the entire lot again in plastic. as well as whatever stupid price they charge for the limited edition codex. i don't care. i've been waiting this long for this.
Don't believe it is a joke for a second, considering what has been released in the last two years, it seemed more likely at this point they were coming than not, what I am taking from this is GW finally has started to have a positive online presence.
Oh this is just too peachy. As far as I can tell, this is gonna be a win either way. Either GW releases plastic sisters - which is good - or they cause the last retainers of sisters to completely snap and firebomb each and every GW location with sacred promethium which is - while not as good as plastic sisters - at least entertaining.
Tamereth wrote: GW 2016 is like meeting your old frigid girlfriend in a bar, and she's drunk, had a makeover, and is telling you dirty jokes. Suddenly you remember why you loved her.
We'll take your Magnus leak and raise you plastic sisters, take that internet.
Does this mean we're just a plastic Thunderhawk away from the apocalypse?
Basically the models are all done sitting on a shelf waiting for a release spot (most likely).
There was a rumor about 5 years or so ago that plastic sisters CAD designs were completed but were not possible to cast do to undercuts on their robes.
Clearly that is no longer an issue for them, look no further then the Skitarii for proof.
General Kroll wrote:And suddenly all the know it alls who kept saying GW wouldn't do sisters because they didn't sell well were silenced.
Highlighted the relevant part.
If we're getting any "Sisters" in plastic, it'll be pop-together 30k Sisters of Silence.
Not Sisters of Battle.
Did you even watch the video? Strongest rumour in decades regarding plastic Sisters of Battle.
Apart from when GW showed off plastic sisters..... about 8-10 years ago iirc. Think it was at a games show or something.
Seriously though, the plastic sisters of battle has been an inside joke both on dakka and within GW for years. I think for the last 3 years whenever you'd ask staff at WHW what the next 40k release would be, a common answer would be a sarcastic 'plastic sisters'.... seeing they're not actually allowed to say anything even if they knew....
Can any of you fine chaps grab some nice screengrabs?
There's a screen grab of Magnus a few pages back in this thread, and then another of the Thousand Sons sprue (quite blurry). As far as the Sisters of Battle go, it's an employee hiding in a secret GW trash can going through unreleased things and he says "Oh, Sisters of Battle!" That's all there really is to it.
If they are old CAD designs I sure hope they got an update. Hopefully by Darren Latham too - he made the Skitarii and the GSC ranges which have the 2 best infantry kits GW has ever made.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
V/O 2: "Plastic Sisters of Battle??"
[fin]
It's a troll.
It was the same voice and he said it like an exclamation of shock.
Why are you so desperate to not see this happen?
I'm going to giggle my butt off if my speculation from last month that the surviving Sisters of Silence will be retconned in as having been folded into SoB after Vandire, as an anti-witch black ops type unit comes to pass.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
V/O 2: "Plastic Sisters of Battle??"
[fin]
It's a troll.
It was the same voice and he said it like an exclamation of shock.
Why are you so desperate to not see this happen?
Because it takes away time for more space marines obviously. Or he just hates the fact we finally may get new figures.
Who thought cult would sell?
Obviously they want to release them so they can blam them in the end times.
Don't like Sob fine. But don't crush other people's hope!
Its' interesting actually. If you go to the comment section of the video, at least 85% of comments are about the Sisters. Magnus and the sons are basically being ignored.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
V/O 2: "Plastic Sisters of Battle??"
[fin]
It's a troll.
It was the same voice and he said it like an exclamation of shock.
Why are you so desperate to not see this happen?
I think you need to get your hearing checked.
Why are you so desperate to imagine GW would make plastic SoB?
I don't think it would be a joke because why be so open and frank about everything else? Plus it's far too specific. He says that these will be released in a couple of months. That's not ambiguous enough. Plus he's in the box that he procured Magnus and all the other sprues.
If he has simply walked past a box, tapped it and said "this where you keep the Sisters?". I d have said it's a joke. But it's set up as a cliffhanger and it's too specific.
I don't think they troll though. The way they are building up positive hype throughout the video and showing a good amount of sensivity for their audience's thoughts and feelings, it isn't plausible they are suddenly lacking it when talking about the SoBs. It was my first reaction too, but it doesnt make sense to be honest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Totalwar1402 wrote: I don't think it would be a joke because why be so open and frank about everything else?
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
V/O 2: "Plastic Sisters of Battle??"
[fin]
It's a troll.
It was the same voice and he said it like an exclamation of shock.
Why are you so desperate to not see this happen?
I think you need to get your hearing checked.
Why are you so desperate to imagine GW would make plastic SoB?
Spoiler:
Why would they make plastic Cult or Death watch ?both niche armies. Look we get it you hate SoB leave those who are hyped alone. And Plastic Custodes???
I've been saying it for years that human females in plastic are an untapped market. Anyone know what the first human female plastics on the market were? The Zombie Vixens... that's both sad and funny at the same time.
Female models have been an untapped market for over a decade, it's been almost impossible to get good female sculpts but then suddenly Raging Heroes shows up and has 2 incredibly successful kickstarters, first one getting $650k and second $800k if I remember correctly. That's almost $1.5 million to create female models. After Raging Heroes first kickstarter we have seen ALLOT of companies suddenly making female models.
As always GW are late to the party but their sculpts should be good, I just fear the codex will be complete and utter trash as the WD and Digital codexes were... :(
Sent a Sisters of Battle codex to GW last year, hopefully they've taken some of the things I suggested into consideration.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: They dont actually show sisters of battle, there is just mention of them being "months away." The Thousand Sons stuff is in their thread.
They don't even actually say Sisters of Battles are months away. It goes:
[shot of a trash can]
V/O 1: "Cool... This isn't even released for months yet."
V/O 2: "Plastic Sisters of Battle??"
[fin]
It's a troll.
It was the same voice and he said it like an exclamation of shock.
Why are you so desperate to not see this happen?
I think you need to get your hearing checked.
Why are you so desperate to imagine GW would make plastic SoB?
Spoiler:
Did you read what i wrote before? Go read the comments on the video. It's almost all reaction to the sisters news. Magnus and the sons are basically ignored. Also, mind your manners.
And it's not as if I don't already have playable Sisters of Battle.
I already have six squads of plastic/metal Thousand Sons. Doesn't mean I won't go broke buying new ones.
And, geez, if there's two factions of them (magnus and the cabal), with different paint schemes, I'm enough of a TS fanboy to do both. And if it IS a dual build kit for CC and ranged, fuggedaboutit.
I hope after sisters they do Eldar Exodites and Kroot Hunting Clans/Mercenaries and or an entirely NEW Xenos faction. Holy gak mind blown if they pull that last one out of a bin.
FINALLY !!
THE ROCK... er I mean SISTERS, HAVE RETURNED TO40K.
Long have we waited for Mechanicus, and the Emperor delivered.
Long did we wait for the Genestealer Cults to rise again, and the Patriarch delivered.
Somebody probably really, really wanted Deatchwatch, and it was delivered.
But now brothers and sisters the time for rejoicing is at hand as our sisters is arms, the Adepta Sororitas rejoin us, now in glorious plastic form.
EMPEROR BE PRAISED !!
I really really wanted DW. Even have my codex and models will be in soon. I also really want Kroot and Demiurg. I want a renaissance GW where they aren't afraid to put out new Xenos factions or Imperial factions.
1. Re-release of old models in plastic.
2. A new / updated range in prep for a full release.
3. A few models being thrown together for yet another "board game."
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Its' interesting actually. If you go to the comment section of the video, at least 85% of comments are about the Sisters. Magnus and the sons are basically being ignored.
In my case this gif would be an accurate description:
GW confirming magnus like that is huge and awesome. Plus it almost confirms that TSons will get a codex of their own.
At that point I was all:
And yet, it's "just" confirmation of what we already expected.
Then suddenly out of the blue they drop that kind of bomb. Plastic....sisters...confirmation...months?
I want to be all over the TSons confirmation, but that kind of blew my mind.
The only problem they said they had casting Sisters originally was figuring out how to do the arms so that their sleeve-drapes hung properly.
I doubt that was ever the reason why we didn't see a Sisters of Battle release, though. That sounds like a well-crafted excuse designed to deter further questioning.
They likely just fell into the old "Not high enough priority to bump something else off the release schedule" trap. Ultimately, GW can only produce a finite amount of product. Anything you write and model represents something else you can't write and model because the time spent on it is being used for something else. Sisters of Battle didn't get re-released because they were never perceived to be profitable enough to displace something else in the product line. This was something a lot of people didn't think about. It was not that Sisters of Battle couldn't make money. It was simply that they were never perceived to be profitable enough to make more money than something else. Opportunity costs.
Two years ago, GW added a ton of new designers to their staff. This is why we've seen a vastly accelerated release schedule. What used to be 3-5 years for new Codex books has dropped to 2-3 years. We've seen three faction model ranges return to the lore after a long absence, and two factions return to the model range from essentially extinction.
This was always going to be the possibility for Sisters. They were dead under the old business model. They were never going to be important enough to displace another, existing, army. But now, there are enough designers to create new things.
This isn't a rumor. It's real, I essentially guarantee it, at least from the perspective of somebody who works in marketing for a retail company. Sisters of Battle are coming. Most likely as a full release. They're not going to play a practical joke on customers. If this ends up being a joke, it's a bad business decision on the level of "R Kelly doing a Twitter Q&A" bad decisions.
And, inevitably, lots of belly-aching about sexism when they end up as Sisters of Slaneesh and corpses pegged to Chaos vehicles.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Its' interesting actually. If you go to the comment section of the video, at least 85% of comments are about the Sisters. Magnus and the sons are basically being ignored.
In my case this gif would be an accurate description:
GW confirming magnus like that is huge and awesome. Plus it almost confirms that TSons will get a codex of their own.
At that point I was all:
And yet, it's "just" confirmation of what we already expected.
Then suddenly out of the blue they drop that kind of bomb. Plastic....sisters...confirmation...months?
I want to be all over the TSons confirmation, but that kind of blew my mind.
Me too, here I am preparing funds for a proper 1K Sons army and then there is SoB out of the blue. Also. Not instead.
I don't see a confirmation, I know folks are hopeful, but you are just asking to get troll kicked in the junk acting as if GW mentioning the army in any form is proof of anything. Remember how everyone acted about the "how to paint a sister of battle" video?
IF plastic SoB are coming, I just want the tactical objective cards and I hope they dont make the Dex worse. Is it too much to ask that they fix Celestians?
That video was pretty funny. Well done GW. That said, i don't doubt GW will make plastic Sisters based on the last few years. They could probably make them sell even better by putting them out in an Ordo Hereticus book with Inquisitors and Storm Troopers. Maybe if we are really lucky they could do a plastic Inq henchmen kit as well. If nothing else the Inq28 community and former Sister players will probably buy the heck out of a plastic sister box or two.
1. Re-release of old models in plastic.
2. A new / updated range in prep for a full release.
3. A few models being thrown together for yet another "board game."
I'm leaning towards 3, though I hope it's 2.
I believe this was released earlier this year stating that we would get Sisters at the end of the year.
– R&D on the entire line is complete, and the range is all new in plastic.
– 5-model combo-unit Sisters infantry kit
– 3 model Sisters unit on 50mm bases kit
– 5 model Sisters unit on 32mm bases kit (different from the infantry unit listed above)
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “A” kit
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “B” kit
– Sororitas Walker/Monstrous Creature vehicle kit
– 3 clampack Sororitas characters
1. Re-release of old models in plastic.
2. A new / updated range in prep for a full release.
3. A few models being thrown together for yet another "board game."
I'm leaning towards 3, though I hope it's 2.
I believe this was released earlier this year stating that we would get Sisters at the end of the year.
– R&D on the entire line is complete, and the range is all new in plastic.
– 5-model combo-unit Sisters infantry kit
– 3 model Sisters unit on 50mm bases kit
– 5 model Sisters unit on 32mm bases kit (different from the infantry unit listed above)
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “A” kit
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “B” kit
– Sororitas Walker/Monstrous Creature vehicle kit
– 3 clampack Sororitas characters
Oh my!
Although, Sisters Terminators? Trying to guess what they have on 32's or 50's.
I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think they are just trolling us. I'll believe it when I see it.
Mentioning Thousand Sons and Sisters in the same video brews some interesting narratives of psychic heavy army versus what's supposed to be an anti-psyker army (sadly no current SoB rules reflects this fluff).
– 5-model combo-unit Sisters infantry kit - Battle Sisters/Dominions, Retributors
– 3 model Sisters unit on 50mm bases kit - This one is a curious one... No idea what it could be, probably something new as I can't think of a single thing sisters have that would require a larger base.
– 5 model Sisters unit on 32mm bases kit (different from the infantry unit listed above) - Celestians and Seraphim
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “A” kit - Immolator remake
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “B” kit - Exorcist remake
– Sororitas Walker/Monstrous Creature vehicle kit - Penitent Engine
– 3 clampack Sororitas characters - Canoness, Priest and Hospitaller
I don't see the remark as GW trolling. Sure, if he had said "plastic sisters" without any further details that might not mean much, but why go out of the way to specify "cool, this isn't released for months yet; plastic sisters of battle".
So far these videos have been used to announce new products and build hype. The only video that was jokingly put out to advertise a false product was their April fool's "left handed paintbrush" video. This makes me think it's real, but "months" probably puts us well into 2017 for Sisters release.
I think GW have finally realized that revisiting the universe and introducing long untouched factions like Ad Mech, Deathwatch, GS Cult generates a ton of profit and excitement for the game. With the new Chaos stuff coming, 30K, Custodes and possibly plastic Sisters, I can see this being a really good fiscal year for GW!
you know, im really happy with this new direction GW is taking but i cant help but be a bit depressed as it came right on the heels of them pretty much killing my main reason for being a fan of theirs (fantasy) but man, they sure are moving in the right direction to get me to at least buy some 40k again.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: The only problem they said they had casting Sisters originally was figuring out how to do the arms so that their sleeve-drapes hung properly.
I doubt that was ever the reason why we didn't see a Sisters of Battle release, though. That sounds like a well-crafted excuse designed to deter further questioning.
No, that really was the problem.
Years ago.
Technology marched on, though, but GW didn't march with it like they should have. They caught up a few years ago, and then they probably just didn't care at that point thanks to the management at the time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: For those of us at work and unable to watch the video, what was actually said, as the only screenshots I've seen amount to:
1. Artwork from Fenris II: The Wolfening.
2. 1KSons sprue in patented 'blurryvision'.
3. Magnus.
The quote from the end of the video is "there's all kinds of cool stuff in here. Cool, this isn't released for months yet! Plastic Sisters of Battle!?"
I have an Inquisition Army that I haven't finished because it never felt right. I didn't want to put a unit of Grey Knights in it because I already have a stand-alone GK army. A Black Templar unit would work, or a Death Watch kill team, but neither of those choices excited me either. A 250 or so point detachment of Sisters would be perfect. If and when the models are released I will certainly buy some.
knighthaunter wrote: you know, im really happy with this new direction GW is taking but i cant help but be a bit depressed as it came right on the heels of them pretty much killing my main reason for being a fan of theirs (fantasy) but man, they sure are moving in the right direction to get me to at least buy some 40k again.
Indeed, if only they'd discovered this level of positive community interactions and reverence for their own history before they took a sledgehammer to the WHF IP.
As for this news - I won't allow myself to full on "get hype" until we see the models and codex; yes, they've been knocking it out of the park of late, but it's not been that long since the days of Chibihawks and Dinobots and Stay Puft Centurions, and it's still a game of Russian Roulette when it comes to whether you'll get intriguing well-written background or Saturday morning cartoon pish. But if they do this right, oh lordy ma poor wallet.
There was a rumor about 5 years or so ago that plastic sisters CAD designs were completed but were not possible to cast do to undercuts on their robes.
Clearly that is no longer an issue for them, look no further then the Skitarii for proof.
People in the bussiness working with CAD designs *know* what can and what cannot be tooled in plastic, the designs are never "completed" only to find out that they are of no use to tool. And even if that was the case (which it isn't), all one has to do is go back to the files and fix the parts with the issue. I am pretty sure they know that
I find it hard to believe that GW would make plastic SoB cost more than the metals do in AUD. At the very least there'd be weapon upgrades that's make the box more worthwhile compared to the metals.
Kroot also confirmed (not really, but come on). People on reddit 40k are getting pumped in the Sisters comments for Kroot and Demiurg. It's all happening folks. Even Exodites. I don't believe there won't be a big army that isn't coming back. I bet we'll even get Arbites and Gangers in a boxed set at some far future point.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I find it hard to believe that GW would make plastic SoB cost more than the metals do in AUD. At the very least there'd be weapon upgrades that's make the box more worthwhile compared to the metals.
Probably not, but GW have several models that cost as much or more than metals and some that are really basic too (Dire Avengers aren't much cheaper than Sisters and are very basic plastic models).
For what it's worth I considered this a hilarious and particularly tongue-in-cheek video (even if it turns out to be joke). Obviously they are well aware what is going on around them.
Additionally I do really like the (video) content they are constantly churning out. Rob and Duncan are really nice guys and their attitude is (at least to me) very contagious... I like the current direction we are going to...
SKR.HH wrote: For what it's worth I considered this a hilarious and particularly tongue-in-cheek video (even if it turns out to be joke). Obviously they are well aware what is going on around them.
Additionally I do really like the (video) content they are constantly churning out. Rob and Duncan are really nice guys and their attitude is (at least to me) very contagious... I like the current direction we are going to...
I think people within GW have always been well aware of what goes on around them, just people making decisions aren't or weren't aware or flat out didn't care.
I don't know how you could possibly have a job as a miniature or rules designer and be completely oblivious to things people are saying, you'd either have to not care in the slightest or be actively shutting it out.
Bonan wrote: Dude, you're literally the only child throwing a tantrum in this thread.
I think he's talking about every other thread where sisters are mentioned (and many where they aren't even mentioned ).
I will admit it'll be sad to lose the entertainment value of the whinging sisters fans, but I'm sure we can still have 30 page long discussions about sister's boob plate and the diameter of their ankles
I am very excited for this. I have a small/modest collection of the Sisters, and look foreword to being able to collect them in earnest.
I just hope this isn't like the Skitarii/Cult mechanicus were the army is meant to be built around formations. That's a huge turn off for me. I couldn't collect them to play, because I just couldn't get excited for the rules. The formation that gave you free upgrades and no get's hot was so blantly the best way to build that army it killed all my hype.
Bonan wrote: Dude, you're literally the only child throwing a tantrum in this thread.
I think he's talking about every other thread where sisters are mentioned (and many where they aren't even mentioned ).
I will admit it'll be sad to lose the entertainment value of the whinging sisters fans, but I'm sure we can still have 30 page long discussions about sister's boob plate and the diameter of their ankles
My biggest fear regarding this is that with all other rumors about the next edition/rules reboot/"sigmarification", their new codex might get released just right before the new edition gets out, AGAIN making them obsolete right out of the box just like it was with 2ed and Witchhunters and dooming them to commercial failure.
Why the hell would it be a troll? Do you guys have any idea of how PR and marketing work? Do you think people wake up one day and say "Oh yeah today we'll troll our entire fanbase".
Yes, this is exactly what the game needs right now, yet another army that will get an update no sooner than 6 years in and further discourage the studio from ever rebooting the game to make it, you know, worth playing. AM got a half-baked codex that's only playable thanks to broken formations and look to get anything new only after 2 years of silence. I can't imagine the GS Cult will fare any better and see any new models within the next 3 years. I fully expect the SoB getting ignored immediately after the re-release and not touched again for years.
In any case, SoBs have always, even reaching as far back as 3rd edition, been a niche army and few were interested in collecting them. I don't see that changing even after a comprehensive remake of the line. Dark Eldar got that and yet remain one of the least popular factions in the game. Same with GK. I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as aspect warriors or virtually the entire CSM line (which happens to remain one of the most popular armies despite the neglect), which would be guaranteed best-sellers and appease disenfranchised customers somewhat. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
I literally just saw this on my fb feed and I'm in shock.
Was getting ready for work but I now don't know what to do with myself. I feel a bit emotional. My metal sisters will be getting some new friends and my credit card will be taking a beating!
-DE- wrote: I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as […] virtually the entire CSM line[…]. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
-DE- wrote: Yes, this is exactly what the game needs right now, yet another army that will get an update no sooner than 6 years in and further discourage the studio from ever rebooting the game to make it, you know, worth playing. AM got a half-baked codex that's only playable thanks to broken formations and look to get anything new only after 2 years of silence. I can't imagine the GS Cult will fare any better and see any new models within the next 3 years. I fully expect the SoB getting ignored immediately after the re-release and not touched again for years.
In any case, SoBs have always, even reaching as far back as 3rd edition, been a niche army and few were interested in collecting them. I don't see that changing even after a comprehensive remake of the line. Dark Eldar got that and yet remain one of the least popular factions in the game. Same with GK. I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as aspect warriors or virtually the entire CSM line (which happens to remain one of the most popular armies despite the neglect), which would be guaranteed best-sellers and appease disenfranchised customers somewhat. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
The sisters models have been languished for far to long as well
-DE- wrote: I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as aspect warriors or virtually the entire CSM line (which happens to remain one of the most popular armies despite the neglect), which would be guaranteed best-sellers and appease disenfranchised customers somewhat. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
And, say, you don't... see any kind of inherent contradictions on the above?
Alpharius wrote: I mean, I hope it is real too, but that came across more as a joke than a 'real confirmation'...
For arguments sake, even if it is real, it'll still suffer the problems that have always dogged Sisters of Battle - they're such a niche army.
I appreciate the fact they have a loyal following and people have spent a lot of time and money on them over the years,
but metal, plastic, it makes no difference if nobody is buying them, and they can't sustain themselves in the long run...
But are people not buying them because nobody is interested or because GW doesn't support them with models and rules?
Dark eldar didn't sell much either before range was redone and new codex released...After that they started to sell.
No support=no sales. FB sales tanked in 8th ed largely because of lousy support as they redirected efforts to AOS from 2012.
It's not a support problem IMO, it's a gender problem.
I think the reason that Sisters don't sell is because they're a female army.
And no, I'm not attacking women here or getting into a sexist rant, I'm merely highlighting the demographics of our hobby.
The vast majority of the hobby is male gamers, and the target market for GW is teenage boys.
The space marine tactical squad will never go out of production, because it's popular and appeals to the demographic.
9 times out of ten, I'd bet my house that when a kid goes into a GW for the first time to buy something he's after the tactical squad, or the knight titan, or the Tau super battle suit or whatever. There's always the odd exception, but I doubt if a sister's squad is at the top of the wish list.
Yes, initially, Sisters will sell, becuase loyal fans will snap up the boxes, but is that enough for the long run?
There seems to be very few female wargamers in the hobby and it would be silly to think that female wargamers will automatically buy female models, and even the loyal fans, regardless of them being male or female, might not be enough to keep the production going.
And, let's not forget that this is partially due to a change in management. What if management changes again, and the new guy, Alan Merrit mark II, decides to scrap Genestealer cults and sisters?
No GW manager regardless of regime, will ever scrap Space Marines, but sisters always seem to be a hostage to fortune.
Feth, I'm still holding out for a new Brettonian army book
-DE- wrote: Yes, this is exactly what the game needs right now, yet another army that will get an update no sooner than 6 years in and further discourage the studio from ever rebooting the game to make it, you know, worth playing. AM got a half-baked codex that's only playable thanks to broken formations and look to get anything new only after 2 years of silence. I can't imagine the GS Cult will fare any better and see any new models within the next 3 years. I fully expect the SoB getting ignored immediately after the re-release and not touched again for years.
In any case, SoBs have always, even reaching as far back as 3rd edition, been a niche army and few were interested in collecting them. I don't see that changing even after a comprehensive remake of the line. Dark Eldar got that and yet remain one of the least popular factions in the game. Same with GK. I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as aspect warriors or virtually the entire CSM line (which happens to remain one of the most popular armies despite the neglect), which would be guaranteed best-sellers and appease disenfranchised customers somewhat. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
Appeasing disenfranchised customers only applies to those that feel they've been disenfranchised due to having had top-tier competitive armies with huge numbers of releases relatively recently, but not those of us that have had the pain for much longer?
Is it possible you're a teeny bit biased here? You did notice the bits about Magnus and Thousand Sons right and that nobody seems to care about that due to the much smaller hint of Sisters?
"poor-man's space marines", really? Do you have any idea how much a Sisters player has to pay to put together even a small force? Playing Sisters currently shows a level of fiscal dedication higher even than that of FWHH fans.
It's not a support problem IMO, it's a gender problem.
I think the reason that Sisters don't sell is because they're a female army.
And no, I'm not attacking women here or getting into a sexist rant, I'm merely highlighting the demographics of our hobby.
The vast majority of the hobby is male gamers, and the target market for GW is teenage boys.
The space marine tactical squad will never go out of production, because it's popular and appeals to the demographic.
9 times out of ten, I'd bet my house that when a kid goes into a GW for the first time to buy something he's after the tactical squad, or the knight titan, or the Tau super battle suit or whatever. There's always the odd exception, but I doubt if a sister's squad is at the top of the wish list.
Yes, initially, Sisters will sell, becuase loyal fans will snap up the boxes, but is that enough for the long run?
There seems to be very few female wargamers in the hobby and it would be silly to think that female wargamers will automatically buy female models, and even the loyal fans, regardless of them being male or female, might not be enough to keep the production going.
And, let's not forget that this is partially due to a change in management. What if management changes again, and the new guy, Alan Merrit mark II, decides to scrap Genestealer cults and sisters?
No GW manager regardless of regime, will ever scrap Space Marines, but sisters always seem to be a hostage to fortune.
Feth, I'm still holding out for a new Brettonian army book
I think there are several reasons that people will buy new models
They look cool
They like the fluff / background
They have great (or broken) rules
The third one in particular is regardless of gender and given that at least some of those who buy purely based on their rules may not even paint the models - there are likely to care even less about the fine details such as if they have boobs or not.
Its more along the lines of "Wow a five man ( ) squad can take four meltas, scouting, ignore cover and in a decent vehicle as well"
I know that those who saw my sisters in action in the local GW store were impressed but several stated they were put off by metal rather than plastic and the price per model.
I think there is a decent market for Sisters but I am admittedly bias - but the reaction to the hint was in the main extremely positive and generated far more reaction that say the model of Magnus! Female models do very well in other games and in a variety of recent kickstarters.
Consequently I hope it was not just a throwaway joke.
Alpharius wrote: I mean, I hope it is real too, but that came across more as a joke than a 'real confirmation'...
For arguments sake, even if it is real, it'll still suffer the problems that have always dogged Sisters of Battle - they're such a niche army.
I appreciate the fact they have a loyal following and people have spent a lot of time and money on them over the years,
but metal, plastic, it makes no difference if nobody is buying them, and they can't sustain themselves in the long run...
But are people not buying them because nobody is interested or because GW doesn't support them with models and rules?
Dark eldar didn't sell much either before range was redone and new codex released...After that they started to sell.
No support=no sales. FB sales tanked in 8th ed largely because of lousy support as they redirected efforts to AOS from 2012.
It's not a support problem IMO, it's a gender problem.
I think the reason that Sisters don't sell is because they're a female army.
And no, I'm not attacking women here or getting into a sexist rant, I'm merely highlighting the demographics of our hobby.
The vast majority of the hobby is male gamers, and the target market for GW is teenage boys.
The space marine tactical squad will never go out of production, because it's popular and appeals to the demographic.
9 times out of ten, I'd bet my house that when a kid goes into a GW for the first time to buy something he's after the tactical squad, or the knight titan, or the Tau super battle suit or whatever. There's always the odd exception, but I doubt if a sister's squad is at the top of the wish list.
Yes, initially, Sisters will sell, becuase loyal fans will snap up the boxes, but is that enough for the long run?
There seems to be very few female wargamers in the hobby and it would be silly to think that female wargamers will automatically buy female models, and even the loyal fans, regardless of them being male or female, might not be enough to keep the production going.
And, let's not forget that this is partially due to a change in management. What if management changes again, and the new guy, Alan Merrit mark II, decides to scrap Genestealer cults and sisters?
No GW manager regardless of regime, will ever scrap Space Marines, but sisters always seem to be a hostage to fortune.
Feth, I'm still holding out for a new Brettonian army book
And there's a Thousand Sons release on the way, no doubt with a Codex, and a mother fething Daemon Primarch in plastic!!!
What right do I have to doubt that Sisters will be a proper re-release?
None of those examples, though, are much of a risk. Harlequins have always been popular and sold well - their sales data will tell them that.
Deathwatch is nothing more, from a production view, a tactical squad painted black. No great risk there.
Space Hulk sold well, so again, their sales data tells them there is a market for more Genestealers.
and the Mars stuff was building on techmarines, which sell well, and so on...
These are not risky to put on sale. Sisters are, because past experience tells you that sisters struggled the last time they were on sale...
High-risk army cult, maybe popular in certain circles but it was still a big risk.I'm sure that they thought it wouldn't sell as well as it is.
And ill go one better old dark eldar did not sell. A reboot has seen them do extremely well.
From what I'm hearing and it could be all bullhockey, there was plans for a historical
warhammer with small forces a lot like isle of blood which had Brets. However it might have been the starter box for 9th which turned into AoS. Again I'm not saying it's true but that was an idea tossed around.
Dark Eldar are mid tier in terms of popularity which is much higher than most people give them credit for and a decent selling army likely to see support in the future. I bet we would see an uptick with better rules since that is all that's hindering their good sculpts back. http://www.totellstories.com/40k/
Gamgee wrote: Dark Eldar are mid tier in terms of popularity which is much higher than most people give them credit for and a decent selling army likely to see support in the future. I bet we would see an uptick with better rules since that is all that's hindering their good sculpts back. http://www.totellstories.com/40k/
Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.
Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.
Sisters have been neglected for a long time for a reason. Meanwhile, the CSM use ancient models despite being one of the most popular armies in the game. Other than Raptors in 2012, they haven't gotten an infantry update since 2007. That's 9 years! Why devote resources to an army that will sell boxes in a short burst instead of doing the same for an army that will provide a steady flow of sales? As for Magnus, I'm sure most CSM players would trade that for a brand new Noise Marine, Plague Marine or Obliterator box.
Gamgee wrote: Dark Eldar are mid tier in terms of popularity which is much higher than most people give them credit for and a decent selling army likely to see support in the future. I bet we would see an uptick with better rules since that is all that's hindering their good sculpts back. http://www.totellstories.com/40k/
They never used to be that's the point.
S.Y.
Indeed - I have loads of Dark Eldar both the originals and the newer versions. In a similar manner to Sisters, there were constantly people saying they will be squatted, ignored, never get new models etc etc,
And then they did, with a decent codex that had lots of fun elements. Weirdly great models and good rules sell Well! Either of the two also do ok.
So GW - make new (and importantly) plastic models, give them the usual cheese formations and the like, sit back and watch them sell well. Its not hard.
Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game
Partly due to the fact that the last codex gutted the army, removed most of the options and now relies on very specific build that also requires a supplement. Or you could just buy Eldar. The rules effect sales - make bad ones for good models and it reduces the potential sales.
-DE- wrote: Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.
Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.
Sisters have been neglected for a long time for a reason. Meanwhile, the CSM use ancient models despite being one of the most popular armies in the game. Other than Raptors in 2012, they haven't gotten an infantry update since 2007. That's 9 years! Why devote resources to an army that will sell boxes in a short burst instead of doing the same for an army that will provide a steady flow of sales? As for Magnus, I'm sure most CSM players would trade that for a brand new Noise Marine, Plague Marine or Obliterator box.
You could just use tactical Marines to make chaos marines. The same can't really be said for sisters.
So, every tactical marine box that's been out bashed into a chaos marine is why you don't have new chaos marines.
Also, yay sisters! I have two friends in my group salivating as we speak, it's a good time to be in this hobby
Gamgee wrote: Dark Eldar are mid tier in terms of popularity which is much higher than most people give them credit for and a decent selling army likely to see support in the future. I bet we would see an uptick with better rules since that is all that's hindering their good sculpts back. http://www.totellstories.com/40k/
They never used to be that's the point.
Also I only ever see space wolves sm players
S.Y.
I was backing you up with some evidence. I like my Dark Kin.
"Plastic sisters will never be a big seller because they're girls, and most boys dont want an army of girls". Uh, citation needed. Sounds like you're projecting your personal hangups on everybody else. What a break with tradition that'd be
-DE- wrote: Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update.
Their new codex plus new rules completely crippled them. IMHO that is a big deal. GW seems to think that there is not at least a part of the customers that will look at the rules before buying the army. I like Kriegsmen and Scions, but is the order system that sold me the Guard models. And still, 7th betrayed us.
Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army.
You are probably right, but I cannot help notice in other media how a significant part of the male public chooses to roll, as an example, a female character in MMORPGs. Maybe is fanservice or other stuff not related to sisters (unless you are into repentia! ) but I would not exclude the charm of the amazon on a male customer.
-DE- wrote: Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.
Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.
Sisters have been neglected for a long time for a reason. Meanwhile, the CSM use ancient models despite being one of the most popular armies in the game. Other than Raptors in 2012, they haven't gotten an infantry update since 2007. That's 9 years! Why devote resources to an army that will sell boxes in a short burst instead of doing the same for an army that will provide a steady flow of sales? As for Magnus, I'm sure most CSM players would trade that for a brand new Noise Marine, Plague Marine or Obliterator box.
Okay I understand why Sisters have been neglected, but GW needs quick cash injections at the moment. Boxed games and niche armies do this. While I do have a CSM army I'm not interested in Magnus or TS.
As you have pointed out I'd rather a noise marine box set I might get the Heresy Sorcerer from bits sellers, possibly even the custodes, yes CSM probably would have a trickle of sales, but I hope GW will do lots of little armies.
Sisters can be one of these, I don't care if they chop the spruce for melee sisters in 7 or 12 years at least it's something.
Blood bowl I'm less on as I've started playing guild ball.
-DE- wrote: I'd rather the company dedicated these resources to models that have languished for far too long, such as […] virtually the entire CSM line[…]. But they'd rather push poor-man's space marines...
The irony .
It's rare that I agree with you, but yeah, wow, the irony there is just dripping off that post.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Dude, you'll finally get the chance to adjust your Sisters of Bitter sig
Not a second before all the plastic is in my greedy, sweaty hands!
But yeah I'll have to figure something else . Sisters of Better?
Nice timing I just got a job!
It's not a support problem IMO, it's a gender problem.
I think the reason that Sisters don't sell is because they're a female army.
And no, I'm not attacking women here or getting into a sexist rant, I'm merely highlighting the demographics of our hobby.
The vast majority of the hobby is male gamers, and the target market for GW is teenage boys.
The space marine tactical squad will never go out of production, because it's popular and appeals to the demographic.
9 times out of ten, I'd bet my house that when a kid goes into a GW for the first time to buy something he's after the tactical squad, or the knight titan, or the Tau super battle suit or whatever. There's always the odd exception, but I doubt if a sister's squad is at the top of the wish list.
Yes, initially, Sisters will sell, becuase loyal fans will snap up the boxes, but is that enough for the long run?
There seems to be very few female wargamers in the hobby and it would be silly to think that female wargamers will automatically buy female models, and even the loyal fans, regardless of them being male or female, might not be enough to keep the production going.
And, let's not forget that this is partially due to a change in management. What if management changes again, and the new guy, Alan Merrit mark II, decides to scrap Genestealer cults and sisters?
No GW manager regardless of regime, will ever scrap Space Marines, but sisters always seem to be a hostage to fortune.
Feth, I'm still holding out for a new Brettonian army book
I think there are several reasons that people will buy new models
They look cool
They like the fluff / background
They have great (or broken) rules
The third one in particular is regardless of gender and given that at least some of those who buy purely based on their rules may not even paint the models - there are likely to care even less about the fine details such as if they have boobs or not.
Its more along the lines of "Wow a five man ( ) squad can take four meltas, scouting, ignore cover and in a decent vehicle as well"
I know that those who saw my sisters in action in the local GW store were impressed but several stated they were put off by metal rather than plastic and the price per model.
I think there is a decent market for Sisters but I am admittedly bias - but the reaction to the hint was in the main extremely positive and generated far more reaction that say the model of Magnus! Female models do very well in other games and in a variety of recent kickstarters.
Consequently I hope it was not just a throwaway joke.
I disagree. I think visual appeal for the target demographic is what sells. Yes, 4 melta guns in a 5 man squad is great on the tabletop if you know the game, but if you've never played 40k before in your life, and are buying what you like the look of, then melta guns don't mean much IMO.
Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My second point is that I see no contradiction in people playing CSM, despite people saying they're only tactical marines with spiky bits.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
Sisters do add one thing - the violence of the church. Without them the religion of the Emperor, one of the cornerstones of the background, isn't represented in the primary game.
I disagree. I think visual appeal for the target demographic is what sells. Yes, 4 melta guns in a 5 man squad is great on the tabletop if you know the game, but if you've never played 40k before in your life, and are buying what you like the look of, then melta guns don't mean much IMO.
Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
Ah but you are not just selling to people who have never played before. You are selling to a wide and varied group - many of whom will try stuff out in store.
Now if you actually have Sisters models in store and shock that they can use then they:
Might like the look of them, like what the manager gives as a background, like their rules, have somethign different to friends and relatives - lots of reasons.
Yeah these are elite armoured warrior women, burning with the light of the Emperor who like to melt and burn heretics all day every day,- thats right the ones your brother plays with. Remember how he used that "big thing" last week, well these five ladies can kill it all on their own, and they can sneak up on it in the first turn and even if its hiding, it doen't matter! Yes you can buy a squad right now!"
GreenOak wrote: Sisters do add one thing - the violence of the church. Without them the religion of the Emperor, one of the cornerstones of the background, isn't represented in the primary game.
This is the main point for me. It's the members around a sisters of battle army that make them interesting, fanatical militia, penitent engines, confessors that make sisters interesting. I don't really like or feel pure sisters forces bring anything to the background or anything amazing on the tabletop. I hope the rules reflect this more so than before.
Sisters just look like women trying to be space marines without all the crazy religious fanatical aspect.
My second point is that I see no contradiction in people playing CSM, despite people saying they're only tactical marines with spiky bits.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
I'm afraid the harsh reality that your love of the Chaos Marine fiction, doesn't make them the cornerstone of the 40,000 universe.
If the forces of the Imperium hunted down the last Heretic Marine tommorrow, the 40K universe would march on.
Chaos would continue ravaging the physical realm with daemons, and the Imperium would still have millions of threats to contend with.
The other harsh reality is that CSM have current plastic models, and sisters do not. There is no need for CSM players to come into every Sororitas rumors thread and whine that there army is more deserving of a revamp, becuase they don't like the aesthetic of their current models. It's very much like a first world child complaining they don't like what their mother made for dinner to a hungry third world orphan.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
What about giant church organ of doom?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
Meh. It's not like we could still have demons, heretics, chaotic cults, …
Seriously Chaos Marines are very important for the heresy, but since then… not so much.
Replace Codex: CSM with Codex: Chaos, and have CSM be present only as elite and HQ, the rest being cultists and/or IG renegade and/or daemons, and it works just fine with the good and evil narrative.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
What about giant church organ of doom?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
Meh. It's not like we could still have demons, heretics, chaotic cults, …
Seriously Chaos Marines are very important for the heresy, but since then… not so much.
Replace Codex: CSM with Codex: Chaos, and have CSM be present only as elite and HQ, the rest being cultists and/or IG renegade and/or daemons, and it works just fine with the good and evil narrative.
and even when you drop chaos completely there is still enough stuff for the imperium to fight against. And lets be honest there is no real good in 40k
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
40k is more Evil vs Evil, or Less Evil vs Really Evil, or Kind of a Dick Vs Absolute Asshat. You can reduce it to a somewhat as relative morality, and then we have many human factions vs many not-humans.
There is not prominence, you could have 40k without space marines, even, since you have guard inquisition and mechanicus. The fluff would be less rich without any of the current factions, but no collapse, sorry.
Sisters add different flavours. You can notice that the 40k factions have been made with a careful blend of many elements. Orks are fantasy orcs, but mad max too, and funny green aliens (a classic, but is so well mixed you notice it only subconsciously sometimes!). Same Eldar, that are Seelie and Unseelie in space, but blend classic and pre-modern exotic cultures and philosofies, and have magitech almost DnDesque. Tau are robotech stuff but in the design of the creatures you can spot some of the Grey Aliens, and there is something starwarsy/star-trek-like in the (asymmetric) confederation of alien cultures. None of these elements are original per se, but they are put together with good care.
Sisters are a blend of things too. Yes, they are the warrior nuns to the warrior monks marines. As nuns are women and as women are amazon. People like amazons, not only because of snu-sn[RECORD DELETED][EXCOMMUNICATED TRAITOR]. They evoke many powerful women of the past and this could be actually an inspiration for the creation of some special character. Celestine is a de facto Prince(ss) Demon of the Emperor. Is fascinating as a concept.
Sisters evoke the witch hunt and witch burning. Is a classic that we find in history and media so it "rings true". They add a needed third pillar to the inquisition orders militant (yes they kind of damaged part of this fluff, but still there is collaboration) with the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch. Add to the fluff the grittiness of the imperial cult, especially the older 3rd edition sisters and the ragtag bunch of misfits they dragged along with them. And there is a lot of potential for other goods, around those.
Sisters on the tabletop can superficially look like marines (power armour, pods) but are not as much as into Psychic powers and shock attacks (drop pods). Do not play in the same way, they have less tools and need more brain to be played. They fill a bit the human gap between scions and marines into the human troops "ladder". So they stats make perfectly sense.
Chaos Marines have old models, but not obsolete models. In a perfect world both lines should be updated, but I ask: which one is in dire need? You said "no offence" but you are creating artificial priority to fit your needs.
My second point is that I see no contradiction in people playing CSM, despite people saying they're only tactical marines with spiky bits.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
I'm afraid the harsh reality that your love of the Chaos Marine fiction, doesn't make them the cornerstone of the 40,000 universe.
If the forces of the Imperium hunted down the last Heretic Marine tommorrow, the 40K universe would march on.
Chaos would continue ravaging the physical realm with daemons, and the Imperium would still have millions of threats to contend with.
The other harsh reality is that CSM have current plastic models, and sisters do not. There is no need for CSM players to come into every Sororitas rumors thread and whine that there army is more deserving of a revamp, becuase they don't like the aesthetic of their current models. It's very much like a first world child complaining they don't like what their mother made for dinner to a hungry third world orphan.
Without a shadow of a doubt, Space Marines define everything about Games Workshop. From being the top selling product, to the giant statue outside Nottingham HQ.
It's all about the Space Marines.
Horus, the Heresy, and Space Marines turning bad is what 40k has been about since day one. I'm not a CSM player anymore, and I like alien factions, and I don't mind Sisters of Battle,
but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.
Yes, there's room for Daemons and cults and Tau and Elder, but these all feed into the great river that is the Space Marine. They are the driving force of everything in the 40k universe from a fluff view, to the cold hard buisness view of selling stuff in the shops.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
What about giant church organ of doom?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
Meh. It's not like we could still have demons, heretics, chaotic cults, …
Seriously Chaos Marines are very important for the heresy, but since then… not so much.
Replace Codex: CSM with Codex: Chaos, and have CSM be present only as elite and HQ, the rest being cultists and/or IG renegade and/or daemons, and it works just fine with the good and evil narrative.
I'm not anti-SoB ( I don't mind them) and I'm not pro-CSM (I used to play them)
but these are all off-shoots of the Sheriff (Space Marines) facing down the Horus 'Gang' in the high noon shoot out.
My second point is that I see no contradiction in people playing CSM, despite people saying they're only tactical marines with spiky bits.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
I'm afraid the harsh reality that your love of the Chaos Marine fiction, doesn't make them the cornerstone of the 40,000 universe.
If the forces of the Imperium hunted down the last Heretic Marine tommorrow, the 40K universe would march on.
Chaos would continue ravaging the physical realm with daemons, and the Imperium would still have millions of threats to contend with.
The other harsh reality is that CSM have current plastic models, and sisters do not. There is no need for CSM players to come into every Sororitas rumors thread and whine that there army is more deserving of a revamp, becuase they don't like the aesthetic of their current models. It's very much like a first world child complaining they don't like what their mother made for dinner to a hungry third world orphan.
Without a shadow of a doubt, Space Marines define everything about Games Workshop. From being the top selling product, to the giant statue outside Nottingham HQ.
It's all about the Space Marines.
Horus, the Heresy, and Space Marines turning bad is what 40k has been about since day one. I'm not a CSM player anymore, and I like alien factions, and I don't mind Sisters of Battle,
but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.
Yes, there's room for Daemons and cults and Tau and Elder, but these all feed into the great river that is the Space Marine. They are the driving force of everything in the 40k universe from a fluff view, to the cold hard buisness view of selling stuff in the shops.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
What about giant church organ of doom?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
Meh. It's not like we could still have demons, heretics, chaotic cults, …
Seriously Chaos Marines are very important for the heresy, but since then… not so much.
Replace Codex: CSM with Codex: Chaos, and have CSM be present only as elite and HQ, the rest being cultists and/or IG renegade and/or daemons, and it works just fine with the good and evil narrative.
I'm not anti-SoB ( I don't mind them) and I'm not pro-CSM (I used to play them)
but these are all off-shoots of the Sheriff (Space Marines) facing down the Horus 'Gang' in the high noon shoot out.
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
40k is more Evil vs Evil, or Less Evil vs Really Evil, or Kind of a Dick Vs Absolute Asshat. You can reduce it to a somewhat as relative morality, and then we have many human factions vs many not-humans.
There is not prominence, you could have 40k without space marines, even, since you have guard inquisition and mechanicus. The fluff would be less rich without any of the current factions, but no collapse, sorry.
Sisters add different flavours. You can notice that the 40k factions have been made with a careful blend of many elements. Orks are fantasy orcs, but mad max too, and funny green aliens (a classic, but is so well mixed you notice it only subconsciously sometimes!). Same Eldar, that are Seelie and Unseelie in space, but blend classic and pre-modern exotic cultures and philosofies, and have magitech almost DnDesque. Tau are robotech stuff but in the design of the creatures you can spot some of the Grey Aliens, and there is something starwarsy/star-trek-like in the (asymmetric) confederation of alien cultures. None of these elements are original per se, but they are put together with good care.
Sisters are a blend of things too. Yes, they are the warrior nuns to the warrior monks marines. As nuns are women and as women are amazon. People like amazons, not only because of snu-sn[RECORD DELETED][EXCOMMUNICATED TRAITOR]. They evoke many powerful women of the past and this could be actually an inspiration for the creation of some special character. Celestine is a de facto Prince(ss) Demon of the Emperor. Is fascinating as a concept.
Sisters evoke the witch hunt and witch burning. Is a classic that we find in history and media so it "rings true". They add a needed third pillar to the inquisition orders militant (yes they kind of damaged part of this fluff, but still there is collaboration) with the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch. Add to the fluff the grittiness of the imperial cult, especially the older 3rd edition sisters and the ragtag bunch of misfits they dragged along with them. And there is a lot of potential for other goods, around those.
Sisters on the tabletop can superficially look like marines (power armour, pods) but are not as much as into Psychic powers and shock attacks (drop pods). Do not play in the same way, they have less tools and need more brain to be played. They fill a bit the human gap between scions and marines into the human troops "ladder". So they stats make perfectly sense.
Chaos Marines have old models, but not obsolete models. In a perfect world both lines should be updated, but I ask: which one is in dire need?
You said "no offence" but you are creating artificial priority to fit your needs.
This is the harsh reality.
They are a supporting act, a good one, and nothing more than that, IMO.
Other important Imperial factions have their role to play, no question, but let's look at brass facts:
Who started the Great Crusade and got mankind fighting the Eldar and the Orks again? Space Marines.
Who brought Mars on board? Space Marines.
Who made the Imperium what it is today? Space Marines, because the heresy forced a re-organisation that saw the Imperial Army be the independent Imperial Guard, ditto Imperial Navy.
And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.
Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...
Hell, even those golden warriors from AOS are Space Marines in all but name...
I rest my case
PS. I don't mind Sisters, but I think Forge World should take the reins of this one.
-DE- wrote: Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.
Sisters themselves just aren't terribly strong conceptually, especially when you're talking about a pure Sisters force. However, I think the freakshow stuff has more conceptual potential, and obviously much more differentiation from the SM line. Build and focus a codex around Ecclesiarchy forces -- perhaps with the Sisters serving as Elites? -- and you might have a more compelling army.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
40k is more Evil vs Evil, or Less Evil vs Really Evil, or Kind of a Dick Vs Absolute Asshat. You can reduce it to a somewhat as relative morality, and then we have many human factions vs many not-humans.
There is not prominence, you could have 40k without space marines, even, since you have guard inquisition and mechanicus. The fluff would be less rich without any of the current factions, but no collapse, sorry.
Sisters add different flavours. You can notice that the 40k factions have been made with a careful blend of many elements. Orks are fantasy orcs, but mad max too, and funny green aliens (a classic, but is so well mixed you notice it only subconsciously sometimes!). Same Eldar, that are Seelie and Unseelie in space, but blend classic and pre-modern exotic cultures and philosofies, and have magitech almost DnDesque. Tau are robotech stuff but in the design of the creatures you can spot some of the Grey Aliens, and there is something starwarsy/star-trek-like in the (asymmetric) confederation of alien cultures. None of these elements are original per se, but they are put together with good care.
Sisters are a blend of things too. Yes, they are the warrior nuns to the warrior monks marines. As nuns are women and as women are amazon. People like amazons, not only because of snu-sn[RECORD DELETED][EXCOMMUNICATED TRAITOR]. They evoke many powerful women of the past and this could be actually an inspiration for the creation of some special character. Celestine is a de facto Prince(ss) Demon of the Emperor. Is fascinating as a concept.
Sisters evoke the witch hunt and witch burning. Is a classic that we find in history and media so it "rings true". They add a needed third pillar to the inquisition orders militant (yes they kind of damaged part of this fluff, but still there is collaboration) with the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch. Add to the fluff the grittiness of the imperial cult, especially the older 3rd edition sisters and the ragtag bunch of misfits they dragged along with them. And there is a lot of potential for other goods, around those.
Sisters on the tabletop can superficially look like marines (power armour, pods) but are not as much as into Psychic powers and shock attacks (drop pods). Do not play in the same way, they have less tools and need more brain to be played. They fill a bit the human gap between scions and marines into the human troops "ladder". So they stats make perfectly sense.
Chaos Marines have old models, but not obsolete models. In a perfect world both lines should be updated, but I ask: which one is in dire need?
You said "no offence" but you are creating artificial priority to fit your needs.
This is the harsh reality.
They are a supporting act, a good one, and nothing more than that, IMO.
Other important Imperial factions have their role to play, no question, but let's look at brass facts:
Who started the Great Crusade and got mankind fighting the Eldar and the Orks again? Space Marines.
Who brought Mars on board? Space Marines.
Who made the Imperium what it is today? Space Marines, because the heresy forced a re-organisation that saw the Imperial Army be the independent Imperial Guard, ditto Imperial Navy.
And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.
Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...
Hell, even those golden warriors from AOS are Space Marines in all but name...
I rest my case
PS. I don't mind Sisters, but I think Forge World should take the reins of this one.
What? Humanity was fighting the orks and eldar during the golden age of humanity. well before the space marines were even thought of by the emperor. The emperor brought mars on board, by pretending to be their tech god. again, it had nothing to do with the space marines. The guard makes the imperium what it is today, the space marines are just a strike force. it's the guard that do the grunt and heavy work. And the Sisters worship the emperor as the god of humanity. they can barely put up with space marines and consider them mutants. Your case is a "D-". Revise it and re-present it.
It's not a support problem IMO, it's a gender problem.
I think the reason that Sisters don't sell is because they're a female army.
And no, I'm not attacking women here or getting into a sexist rant, I'm merely highlighting the demographics of our hobby.
The vast majority of the hobby is male gamers, and the target market for GW is teenage boys.
The space marine tactical squad will never go out of production, because it's popular and appeals to the demographic.
9 times out of ten, I'd bet my house that when a kid goes into a GW for the first time to buy something he's after the tactical squad, or the knight titan, or the Tau super battle suit or whatever. There's always the odd exception, but I doubt if a sister's squad is at the top of the wish list.
Yes, initially, Sisters will sell, becuase loyal fans will snap up the boxes, but is that enough for the long run?
There seems to be very few female wargamers in the hobby and it would be silly to think that female wargamers will automatically buy female models, and even the loyal fans, regardless of them being male or female, might not be enough to keep the production going.
And, let's not forget that this is partially due to a change in management. What if management changes again, and the new guy, Alan Merrit mark II, decides to scrap Genestealer cults and sisters?
No GW manager regardless of regime, will ever scrap Space Marines, but sisters always seem to be a hostage to fortune.
Feth, I'm still holding out for a new Brettonian army book
I think there are several reasons that people will buy new models
They look cool
They like the fluff / background
They have great (or broken) rules
The third one in particular is regardless of gender and given that at least some of those who buy purely based on their rules may not even paint the models - there are likely to care even less about the fine details such as if they have boobs or not.
Its more along the lines of "Wow a five man ( ) squad can take four meltas, scouting, ignore cover and in a decent vehicle as well"
I know that those who saw my sisters in action in the local GW store were impressed but several stated they were put off by metal rather than plastic and the price per model.
I think there is a decent market for Sisters but I am admittedly bias - but the reaction to the hint was in the main extremely positive and generated far more reaction that say the model of Magnus! Female models do very well in other games and in a variety of recent kickstarters.
Consequently I hope it was not just a throwaway joke.
I disagree. I think visual appeal for the target demographic is what sells. Yes, 4 melta guns in a 5 man squad is great on the tabletop if you know the game, but if you've never played 40k before in your life, and are buying what you like the look of, then melta guns don't mean much IMO.
Giant stomping Tau Mega Battle suit of doom on the other hand would appeal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My second point is that I see no contradiction in people playing CSM, despite people saying they're only tactical marines with spiky bits.
This is true, but 40k hinges on this good and evil narrative that has featured in culture and literature since the dawn of humanity.
Space Marines turning bad is the cornerstone of the game, arguably the most important part of the fluff.
Remove that, and the fluff would collapse.
What do Sisters add to that? Nothing, IMO.
If they never existed, 40k would continue along its merry path.
CSM and their history is important to the game, Sisters of Battle are not.
No offence to the loyal sisters players, I admire your dedication (and as a Brettonian player I know what it's like to be ignored)
but I'm afraid that's the harsh reality.
Sisters add several things to 40k but I'm unsure if you just want to be antagonistic or you just think two factions are important ?, who's next for the scrap heap her commandant Tau?.
1. Sisters will add females in power Armour . which even if you don't like them, I'm fairly sure they will be used as the basis of many a conversion. which you might like.
2. space marines are fairly rare in the 40k universe while most people within have possibly heard of these super beings very few will probably see them. while id like this to be more represented on tabletop it probably wont be. Most citizens will have seen one of the Sisters at some point. even if you hate them which it seems you do. They were in the game since RT, most of the fluff for the space marines hasn't. if you find the old Sister Sin image, sisters haven't really aesthetically changed. Space marines are vastly different i mean the old Ultramarines were actually the second version and their chief librarian was half eldar. Sisters were always a kind of police its just now they hunt heretics instead of everyone. and who knew Fulgrim was trapped in a painting??
3. I don't know if you care but the Ecclesiarchy is fairly important to the fluff of the Imperium. Sisters are the militant wing. If you can have 2 sets of marines why cant we have the sisters for the third of the 3 branches of the inquisition? what will you replace them with deathwatch with flamers?
4. chaos is getting new stuff BEFORE SISTERS. gw could flatline chaos just like they did after the 2nd ed and 3.5 dex . I still have figures I am unable to use from chaos. At least I can use my sisters
5. Sisters have a strong fan base or at least an extremely vocal one. If they sell well will you deny squat (demiurg) a chance because they are not space marines? give the fans a chance to speak with their wallets if they fail to sell then, then perhaps you can say they are unimportant.
6. Chaos are important but they are just Spikey marines at the moment, they should be more, but they are just as important as sisters. Sisters probably are one of the first lines of defense as well as pdf regiments. Chaos probably hit them first in any campaign as usually theirs a few around every Ecclisarchy church or what have you. As I've said I wont be buying any of the new TS stuff it just does not appeal to me.
7. Don't like them Don't buy them. speak with your wallet.
8. I play TK and Brets but really this is a sisters thread if you dislike them go start a thread in general or something and all the hate can go there, im excited for 40k for the first time in years. as fantasy is effectively dead for me. If this turns to be a joke I think I'm done with GW. My brother has waited years for sisters but hes not going to buy any because of the AOS and recent grumpy culture of gw players and I can see why.
9. Adding a cool faction of crazy flamethrower killer nuns, how cool is that? I think its very cool its unique and we cant all be copy and paste space marines. Saying to all those who held out hope you get something.
10. I know 1 person who plays chaos other than myself but he uses the GK dex as counts as. I think chaos does need a new tactical squad. New Rules, but Abbadon, is really kinda meh they need a serious evil to make them credible because all hes done really is failed 12 times. The whole faction feels flat, sister players are Vocal, be vocal it seems to have worked. Sisters don't feel flat, unless you just say poor mans female marines. Which can be done to chaos more so as they are just marines with evil eyes. The stats are the same ( and honestly csm should be superior to regular SM after all 10k years of fighting in the warp improves nothing?), Sisters are at least different in that regards. the only problem I see is with acts of faith, its never really worked, turn it into a kind of Psyker ability that uses squads instead of warp charges maybe??
11. sisters need effectively 2 boxes 1 for troops which also make specialists and, maybe chars too with bits another for maybe Repentia?, rhino, same that is easy and the Exorcist is already done. Chaos need 4 boxes for cult troops possibly 8 if you include terminators, 1 tactical, the 2 awful Finecast chars in metal. Cult Dudes, maybe even a box for each legion even if you get trickle sales that is a lot of boxes, excluding the monster engines and possible Beastmen they should have. 2 vs a lot of boxes is simple maths. I can see why splitting chaos works it will be easier to well sell for 1 and for 2 you don't have 4- 6 months of just chaos.
12. While its fine they could be pushed into the BG and while I'd be effectively done with GW, SM make them money. As somebody who knows a few Indy stores I really don't see chaos sell well even when they got new stuff. Sisters kits did well but that was back in 96. Penitent engines did okay as did Exorcists, but they quickly folded into GW only so I cant really say on that.
Just let sisters players have their day. If its a joke then its a rather cruel one and you can laugh.
They are a supporting act, a good one, and nothing more than that, IMO.
Other important Imperial factions have their role to play, no question, but let's look at brass facts:
Who started the Great Crusade and got mankind fighting the Eldar and the Orks again? Space Marines.
Who brought Mars on board? Space Marines.
Who made the Imperium what it is today? Space Marines, because the heresy forced a re-organisation that saw the Imperial Army be the independent Imperial Guard, ditto Imperial Navy.
And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.
Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...
Hell, even those golden warriors from AOS are Space Marines in all but name...
I rest my case
PS. I don't mind Sisters, but I think Forge World should take the reins of this one.
Fine, they did a of of stuff, but is somewhat due to the fact that GW pushes its poster boys as much as possible.
But my point is that an hypotetical 40k without Marines would be perhaps less diverse, but still incredibly rich of material and lore. Still is, see all the things concerning the apostasy, the assassinorum, and whatnot. This ignoring the xenos players; but is ok, even GW does.
Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).
How much they are pushed as models (sigmarines included) is due to a positive feedback concerning the company and the playerbase. When someone is a beginner, is often driven to these simpler, smooth surfaced, drybrushable supermen whose playstyle, depending on the edition, alternates between "forgiving army" and "forgiving army with special snowflake status". So those not attracted directly by SM are often told to try them out. Big sales pushes GW to "more mureenz" and even to introduce them to other systems, "to make them AWESOMER" (AoS).
Eeeeuuuuugh.
And the Emperor is not a Space Marine. One of the tragedies of the heresy is how much distances Empy kept between him and the primarchs, they seeing him as a father, he seeing them as living weapons (albeit he felt at least for Horus I guess).
If you mean “A dictatorial theocracy”, it cannot be traced to a single person. But among others, Fatidicus (not a SM), Roboute Guilliman (a primarch, hence not a SM), Vandire (not a SM), Thor (not a SM), all the High Lords in general (none of those are SM), and did I mention various Inquisitors (not SM) acting in the background?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.
Not a space marine by any rate. Predate them by millennia afawk, doesn't have any of their implants afawk, doesn't share their mentality at all (atheist/rationalist…)
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...
Only if you distort everything into a space marine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.
Let's be real for a second. 40k revolves around loyal space marines.
I'm going to expand on that by having a look at all the starter pack listed on Lexicanicum:
2nd ed: SM versus ORKS
3rd ed: SM versus DARK ELDARS
4th ed: SM versus TYRANIDS
5th ed: SM versus ORKS
6th ed: SM versus CSM If anything, 40k revolves more around Orks than around CSM. And I am not talking only about starter pack, video games tend to focus more on Orks than on CSMimo, and Orks had a huge international campaign just like CSM, …
If you mean “A dictatorial theocracy”, it cannot be traced to a single person. But among others, Fatidicus (not a SM), Roboute Guilliman (a primarch, hence not a SM), Vandire (not a SM), Thor (not a SM), all the High Lords in general (none of those are SM), and did I mention various Inquisitors (not SM) acting in the background?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.
Not a space marine by any rate. Predate them by millennia afawk, doesn't have any of their implants afawk, doesn't share their mentality at all (atheist/rationalist…)
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...
Only if you distort everything into a space marine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.
Let's be real for a second. 40k revolves around loyal space marines.
I'm going to expand on that by having a look at all the starter pack listed on Lexicanicum:
2nd ed: SM versus ORKS
3rd ed: SM versus DARK ELDARS
4th ed: SM versus TYRANIDS
5th ed: SM versus ORKS
6th ed: SM versus CSM If anything, 40k revolves more around Orks than around CSM. And I am not talking only about starter pack, video games tend to focus more on Orks than on CSMimo, and Orks had a huge international campaign just like CSM, …
When I started I actually thought the barbarous hordes of Orks were the big bad.
Here is my plan: I'm going to buy store credit at my LGS every pay day till the Sisters come out. And when they come out I am going to cash it in for the Codex and one of everything my LGS manages to get in Sisters!
Don't worry, I'll keep my vintage Sisters in the display case and bring them out to help the new girls out from time to time. Gota show these kids how it's done.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).
The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.
StupidYellow wrote: When I started I actually thought the barbarous hordes of Orks were the big bad.
Can't blame you when their description usually explicitly say that they could literally overthrow everyone and everything else if they united. And let's not forget about how an ork almost killed the Emperor too.
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.
I like them all, some more so than others.
But the facts are this:
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
I don't think anyone is denying this. Now what happened to the CSM? Is their box the second best selling one?
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
I would say that no other faction is in the same league as SM, at the very least sales wise (people's feelings notwithstanding). Does that mean that all other factions should not have plastic core units, and that should be handled by FW?
I mean, space marines have literal scores of plastic units... would it be too much to ask for a couple boxes of space nuns? I'd love to see them, as much as I'd love to see Arbites, naval troops, multiple plastic IG regiments, more alien races... but I do love me my fluff and smaller scale games, so...
Kaiyanwang wrote: Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).
The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.
Power armor and Rhino do not make a space marine. As explained above, they are a ladder in the Conscript -> Guard -> Veteran -> Scion -> Sister(different ones) -> Spess Muhreen
They do not have drop pods and other SM tricks. They play differently. Do Tempestus Scions wiht Hot-Shots and Plasma play the same way than Grenadier Meltavets in Chimera just because of the Carapace? Sisters and Marines are waaaaay more different than this.
Furthermore, they can bring along priests, inquisitorial staff&stuff, penintent engine, priests, repentia, and older models redone.
-DE- wrote: Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.
Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.
Sisters have been neglected for a long time for a reason. Meanwhile, the CSM use ancient models despite being one of the most popular armies in the game. Other than Raptors in 2012, they haven't gotten an infantry update since 2007. That's 9 years! Why devote resources to an army that will sell boxes in a short burst instead of doing the same for an army that will provide a steady flow of sales? As for Magnus, I'm sure most CSM players would trade that for a brand new Noise Marine, Plague Marine or Obliterator box.
The fluff is a large reason why people play the armies that they do and sisters are very different from marines in that regard. This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:
Sisters of battle don't wage war. They purge the heretic and the witch by way of the holy trinity. They are absolutely fanatic to the point of insanity. Their faith is so absolute that it manifests physically ffs. Not unlike orks.
The bolter isn't just a kinda important tool, it's literally holy to them. Impaling you on a stack and burning you alive at the mere hint of chaos taint is their holy duty and they don't just do it without hesitation, they revel in it.
As far as I'm concerned, sisters of battle are amongst the most grimdark factions the game has. Which is why I love them. They also happen to look bad ass.
I just hope they keep the grimdark tone to the sisters, I don't want the equivalent of 40k paladins, I want my flying rodent gak insane witch hunters.
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
Nice moving the goalpost here.
Nobody said Murheenz are not prominent; people just do not think that since none can beat marines, other factions should deserve neglect and oblivion.
-DE- wrote: Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.
That's true for any line. Sales are very forward heavy. Marines sell as they get new releases all the time. No big secrets there. Any box generates sales at first, then trickle. Chaos no different.
Not quite as bad as halve releases, halve saves but not that far off.
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
Nice moving the goalpost here.
Nobody said Murheenz are not prominent; people just do not think that since none can beat marines, other factions should deserve neglect and oblivion.
Money talks. If Sisters sold well, only an idiot, or Tom Kirby, would have dropped them. Nobody ditches a product that sells well, unless it has lead paint or asbestos in it.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
I don't think anyone is denying this. Now what happened to the CSM? Is their box the second best selling one?
I would lay long odds that CSM are more popular and sell more than SoB.
I am reliably informed that one of GW's best selling products these days, is Dark Vengeance, which obviously contains CSM.
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
I would say that no other faction is in the same league as SM, at the very least sales wise (people's feelings notwithstanding). Does that mean that all other factions should not have plastic core units, and that should be handled by FW?
I mean, space marines have literal scores of plastic units... would it be too much to ask for a couple boxes of space nuns? I'd love to see them, as much as I'd love to see Arbites, naval troops, multiple plastic IG regiments, more alien races... but I do love me my fluff and smaller scale games, so...
I don't want any faction scrapped. If I were in charge, Sisters would get the new stuff, but ultimately in the long run, business sense would determine the decision making process.
If it sold well, keep making it. If it doesn't sell well, stop making it.
And it would get a fair crack of the whip from me with advertising, and so on...
Money talks. If Sisters sold well, only an idiot, or Tom Kirby, would have dropped them. Nobody ditches a product that sells well, unless it has lead paint or asbestos in it. .
Gw is known for releasing product that exceeded their own expectation big time and then dump them.
They aproved release even if they thought it wouldn't sell well enough that even 400% times expectations is not enough?
I'm actually thinking of selling my SM forces (Blood Ravens if anyone is interested) once we have a full confirmation that Sisters are coming in plastic. Coming from Dark Heresy, the Sororitas just embody the spirit of the Grimdark to me.
GW is on a roll. Genestealer Cults.. plastic sisters. Squats are coming soon, mark my words.
Always loved that FW SOB rhino.. the dozer blade with the vertical blades in it.. wish they would have just sold that dozer blade separately. I asked once and they said no :( Hopefully that will become plasticified eventually.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).
The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.
Power armor and Rhino do not make a space marine. As explained above, they are a ladder in the
Conscript -> Guard -> Veteran -> Scion -> Sister(different ones) -> Spess Muhreen
They do not have drop pods and other SM tricks. They play differently. Do Tempestus Scions wiht Hot-Shots and Plasma play the same way than Grenadier Meltavets in Chimera just because of the Carapace? Sisters and Marines are waaaaay more different than this.
But there are many conceptual similarities in either example, and beyond gender in the SM/SoB comparison, the differences wouldn't be apparent to a new player.
What you would say about a new faction that tools around in Wave Serpents, wears carapace armor, and uses shuriken weaponry and fusion guns? They're pseudo-Eldar, right? And I could protest and say that they don't have Farseers or Wraithknights. But you'd say fine...but they're still pseudo-Eldar. Same thing here.
Furthermore, they can bring along priests, inquisitorial staff&stuff, penintent engine, priests, repentia, and older models redone.
Roknar wrote: The fluff is a large reason why people play the armies that they do and sisters are very different from marines in that regard. This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:
Spoiler:
Like I said in my previous post, the freakshow stuff is where the opportunity lies IMO. Put more focus on the Ecclesiarchy stuff and (importantly) give it solid, attractive rules, and you might have something that doesn't look like marines in power corsets.
Damn, now i feel like posting a pic of my Celestine my Friend Painted up for me...
But other than that, i could feel GW will keep the same formula for sisters, but expand on the Lunatic part a bit more
Stuff like variant Pentient Engines, Variant Repentia ect
Perhaps some more special characters as well (as they only have Celestine and Jacobus, both AWESOME in their own right)
Im Hoping for a Cannoness Multi part Kit (like the SM Commander)
But i REALLY hope Celestine FINALLY gets EW and she Still has her Self-Rez Ability (and AP2 Sword?)
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
Oddly enough, when I used to think of 40k it was the Sisters of Battle that always came to my mind first followed by the Inquisition.
THEY were cool, and I still think that they have scores more flavor and style over Space Marines.
By your logic everyone should play Ultra Marines but they do not.
People have reasons for choosing an army, and me it is how they look , followed by fluff. Stats are very last on the list.
Variety is never bad.
What you would say about a new faction that tools around in Wave Serpents, wears carapace armor, and uses shuriken weaponry and fusion guns? They're pseudo-Eldar, right? And I could protest and say that they don't have Farseers or Wraithknights. But you'd say fine...but they're still pseudo-Eldar. Same thing here.
I think you are conveniently ignoring important elements like S, T, I, and ASTKNF. Or no land raiders, or stuff like the exorcist. Ad as I said but apparently is the case to repeat, priests, penitent, repentia and the potential for other ecchlesiarchy shenanigans drift sisters away from SMs. The freakshow you are talking about yourself!
Additional note: all (or most) human factions use melta and plasma, but is not played in the same way, in the same units, in the same amount. So the shuriken example is weak.
Furthermore, funny you brought up eldars - FW considered worthwhile add a new eldar faction that is a mix of Craftworld, Dark and new stuff. You know, they bothered to make it a new faction and whatnot. With new rules, some new model and some old one.
Sisters would look immediately better and more unique straight away if they removed the back pack from their power armour.
We all know power armour can come in different shapes and sizes, so why don't they make theirs look even more different than that of space marines. Combined with the lack of sealed helmets and the almost layered aspect to the armour, it would be power armour that looks even less like your standard marine power armour straight away.
Second aspect of the sisters I have never liked, even though it may be fluffy is the hair cuts... They need to get rid of that uniformed look, it makes them all look the same, and boring again. Skin head with topknots on the sisters of silence looks so much more aesthetic to the theme if they want a uniformed styling. A bob or whatever it is called is about as menacing as a pug puppy.
Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )
I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.
Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.
And a year or so ago, the arguments you're making could have been used against the introduction of Mechanicus and Harlequin armies, and a couple of months ago against GSCult being added to the game, and several years back against the introduction of Tau and Dark Eldar v1. And would still apply in future if GW decide to make Arbites or re-make the Inquisition with a plastic range. I guess we should all just be glad you don't work for GW.
Of course, if we dig into the argument a little it rather falls apart. Space Marines need 40K, and 40K needs variety to remain viable. Lets say we took the argument to an extreme, and GW removed every faction except SM and CSM(not from the fluff, they would just stop selling models and rules for them), ostensibly the only parts of the setting that "really matter" and in the former case which unequivocally sell the best - what do you think happens to the game, to the company? I mean, SM sell best, so GW could just keep selling the same amount of SM and everything would be fine, right? Of course not. Even with the Horus Heresy line, the perfect system by your argument's measure, has been deliberately expanded by FW to include more factions that can fit into the story to try and entice in more players, because they're smart enough to know that more players means a healthier network effect, which in turn encourages more spending from your SM-loving Whale customers.
It's a symbiosis - without SM sales it's probably true that the system as a whole wouldn't remain viable, at least not as the present level of investment, SM are the big lumbering wildebeast, the host organism, and everything else depends on them for survival. Yet without all the little critters and microorganisms that depend on it, it too would die because they each serve it a vital function. SM are only cool because they're defined in relation to everything else, and so while you can argue the amount of support that should be devoted to other factions, there's no argument at all that they shouldn't be getting any support or that a richer, more varied setting with a wider variety of faction choices isn't good for SM sales.
And further, for the record, do you know what got me, at one point an actual young male human, into 40K as a system? Walking into GW for a game of WHFB and seeing this on the shelf:
Since then I've spent a probably ludicrous amount of money on GW models, a lot of them were even Space Marines, but this whole "SoB will fail 'cos young boys will be all EWWWW GIRLCOOTIES!" shtick is just silly. And actually not a little sexist. And also probably really wrong, given it's very similar to the argument used against including female lead characters in videogames, which has also turned out to be wrong.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).
The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.
Sure apart from their stats, their army unique mechanic, their gender, their background, their lack of superhuman abilities, the aesthetic of their gear...
They use bolters, power armour, and Rhinos. So do the Inquisition. So do some variants of the Imperial Militia HH list.
That said, I would have zero objection to GW playing up the Ecclesiarchy side of the faction more to make them more distinct - who wouldn't want plastic Cultists, Frateris Militia, Preachers, giant floaty-death pulpits, cyber-penitants, giant robot walker cyber-penitants, attack-cherubs, and any other potential gothic religious whackaloonery GW can come up with? Sound great to me.
I guess we should all just be glad you don't work for GW.
You missed my earlier post that said if I were in charge of GW I'd happily sell Sisters of battle.
You also missed my earlier post about Harlequins.
As for Tau and Dark Eldar, I would have given them a fair chance, and then applied sound economics to them.
If they sell, keep selling, if they don't, stop selling.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Coca Cola is the most popular drink in the world, but does that mean that everybody drinks nothing but coca cola?
Of course not, and that is the logic I'm applying here. Space Marines are the engine of 40k, but other people play other factions, and they enrich the game.
You'll get no argument from me on that, but it would be silly to suggest Space Marines are not the most most popular force in the game.
I see what you mean. Chaos marines obviously don't sell well enough for GW to redo their kits. Sisters however are getting redone. Yeah, make sense. Seems like a bit of a sudden backtracking from your side, though… Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?
I don't think GW helped themselves by stating in the initial Codex that Sisters would work best as Allies rather than as an army in their own right.
Didn't stop me buying a load though.
Right now, and this is purely wishlisting, I think it would be great if GW drummed up interest by mirroring the Overkill/ Genestealer Cult reintroduction with a 'Sanctuary 101' Sisters/ Necron box.
Get people hooked and follow up with a fully fleshed out release.
After all, that's why I'm sitting here with two boxes of Neophytes an a couple of Goliaths to add to my Overkill Cultists.
I see what you mean. Chaos marines obviously don't sell well enough for GW to redo their kits. Sisters however are getting redone. Yeah, make sense. Seems like a bit of a sudden backtracking from your side, though… Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?
Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?
I'm excited. Read the whole thread, including the knuckle-dragging and chest-beating bits.
I think that GW will be true to form: Boxed game followed by a release.
The box will probably be sisters vs demons. Execution force has the cultists, and they aren't likely to step on those toes. Demons make sense, particularly with Thousand Sons being released before.
Ultimately, I see Sisters being a smaller release than Genestealers. more along the lines of Deathwatch because the vehicles get reused.
2 Infantry boxes make sense... Battle Sisters, Dominions, etc in one box. Veterans in another box (Celestians, etc)
Who knows what will be in on the rumored 50 mm bases.
They already have a plastic Immolator Sprue... not sure what needs to be done there.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm excited. Read the whole thread, including the knuckle-dragging and chest-beating bits.
I think that GW will be true to form: Boxed game followed by a release.
The box will probably be sisters vs demons. Execution force has the cultists, and they aren't likely to step on those toes. Demons make sense, particularly with Thousand Sons being released before.
Ultimately, I see Sisters being a smaller release than Genestealers. more along the lines of Deathwatch because the vehicles get reused.
2 Infantry boxes make sense... Battle Sisters, Dominions, etc in one box. Veterans in another box (Celestians, etc)
Who knows what will be in on the rumored 50 mm bases.
They already have a plastic Immolator Sprue... not sure what needs to be done there.
Imagine if the opposing force was the lost and the damned and included an upgrade sprue much like the GC spurs for imperial guard.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm excited. Read the whole thread, including the knuckle-dragging and chest-beating bits.
I think that GW will be true to form: Boxed game followed by a release.
The box will probably be sisters vs demons. Execution force has the cultists, and they aren't likely to step on those toes. Demons make sense, particularly with Thousand Sons being released before.
Ultimately, I see Sisters being a smaller release than Genestealers. more along the lines of Deathwatch because the vehicles get reused.
2 Infantry boxes make sense... Battle Sisters, Dominions, etc in one box. Veterans in another box (Celestians, etc)
Who knows what will be in on the rumored 50 mm bases.
They already have a plastic Immolator Sprue... not sure what needs to be done there.
Imagine if the opposing force was the lost and the damned and included an upgrade sprue much like the GC spurs for imperial guard.
I'm wishlisting Sanctuary 101 mainly because I've been after an excuse to collect some Necrons as well as supplementing my Sisters.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The sad thing is, we'll probably get plastic sisters that look worse and cost more money than the metal ones
Please, when has that ever happened with GW?
I used to think that and compared them to the Diaz sculpts then I was told to look at the old images in my ROC books - the new ones are cloest to that original concept
I see what you mean. Chaos marines obviously don't sell well enough for GW to redo their kits. Sisters however are getting redone. Yeah, make sense. Seems like a bit of a sudden backtracking from your side, though… Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?
Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?
No.
So from an economic perspective GW should only sell Marines of every flavour. Maybe the odd big robot. But obviously only Marines. I mean Economics dictate right?
The only way for a company to not Stagnate is to speculate on new products. But hey yellow Space Marines are new right?
I can honestly say SM never interested me, evil ones did because they had well something more than just burly men. I did a cult army in 3.5 But it's basically useless now. Sonic Dreads nope.(unless it's changed now) My old army for 2nd had beastmen and cultists with daemons.
The game boxes usually sell okay, I mean save for Dreadfleet which really missed an opportunity to be Man of War 2.0.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The sad thing is, we'll probably get plastic sisters that look worse and cost more money than the metal ones
Please, when has that ever happened with GW?
I used to think that and compared them to the Diaz sculpts then I was told to look at the old images in my ROC books - the new ones are cloest to that original concept
I still would like the Diaz ones or at least a choice.
If sisters are awful I probably will just buy them and try to fix it, if it's impossible task then it's game over.
shinr wrote: My biggest fear regarding this is that with all other rumors about the next edition/rules reboot/"sigmarification", their new codex might get released just right before the new edition gets out, AGAIN making them obsolete right out of the box just like it was with 2ed and Witchhunters and dooming them to commercial failure.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The sad thing is, we'll probably get plastic sisters that look worse and cost more money than the metal ones
Please, when has that ever happened with GW?
Spoiler:
I used to think that and compared them to the Diaz sculpts then I was told to look at the old images in my ROC books - the new ones are cloest to that original concept
If that's the case, the reveal of the new sculpts is going to drive some very amusing reactions...
If they go that route, I might even buy some.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreenOak wrote: Playing Sisters currently shows a level of fiscal dedication higher even than that of FWHH fans.
Oh, please.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Roknar wrote: This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:
As far as I'm concerned, sisters of battle are amongst the most grimdark factions the game has. Which is why I love them. They also happen to look bad ass.
I just hope they keep the grimdark tone to the sisters, I don't want the equivalent of 40k paladins, I want my flying rodent gak insane witch hunters.
The problem is that GW gave us G-rated grimdark sisters, rather than the PG-13 version you pictured above, as opposed to the X-rated version we all want. If GW makes an "adults-only" version of the freakshow, I would buy it, but the schlock that they sold? No way.
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The sad thing is, we'll probably get plastic sisters that look worse and cost more money than the metal ones
Please, when has that ever happened with GW?
Disagree. Despite them not being naked enough those are very well sculpted. Indeed they are among the best sculpts produced in terms of believable anatomy. With actual anatomically correct bone structure and joints, rather than a floating balloon shaped muscles <most AOS Khorne models>. As much as I love that Diaz-nettes they have issues such as their claws and static poses that are inferior to the new sculpts.
shinr wrote: My biggest fear regarding this is that with all other rumors about the next edition/rules reboot/"sigmarification", their new codex might get released just right before the new edition gets out, AGAIN making them obsolete right out of the box just like it was with 2ed and Witchhunters and dooming them to commercial failure.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The sad thing is, we'll probably get plastic sisters that look worse and cost more money than the metal ones
Please, when has that ever happened with GW?
I used to think that and compared them to the Diaz sculpts then I was told to look at the old images in my ROC books - the new ones are cloest to that original concept
If that's the case, the reveal of the new sculpts is going to drive some very amusing reactions...
If they go that route, I might even buy some.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreenOak wrote: Playing Sisters currently shows a level of fiscal dedication higher even than that of FWHH fans.
Oh, please.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Roknar wrote: This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:
As far as I'm concerned, sisters of battle are amongst the most grimdark factions the game has. Which is why I love them. They also happen to look bad ass.
I just hope they keep the grimdark tone to the sisters, I don't want the equivalent of 40k paladins, I want my flying rodent gak insane witch hunters.
The problem is that GW gave us G-rated grimdark sisters, rather than the PG-13 version you pictured above, as opposed to the X-rated version we all want. If GW makes an "adults-only" version of the freakshow, I would buy it, but the schlock that they sold? No way.
I really don't want the SM like shoulder pad... but otherwise hell yes!
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
I agree with the good Inquisitor on all points.
WRT Chaos Marines, only Khorne gets regular updates. Nurgle runs a close second. Tzeentch a distant third. Slaanesh? Lucky to still be around. Undivided? Sorry. It's great that kSons are getting some love after all this time.
CSM are more significant to the Fluff and background than Sisters, that's not really arguable. Nids and Tau don't have much to do with Chaos, sure. But Eldar? There's a big thing.
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
I agree with the good Inquisitor on all points.
WRT Chaos Marines, only Khorne gets regular updates. Nurgle runs a close second. Tzeentch a distant third. Slaanesh? Lucky to still be around. Undivided? Sorry. It's great that kSons are getting some love after all this time.
CSM are more significant to the Fluff and background than Sisters, that's not really arguable. Nids and Tau don't have much to do with Chaos, sure. But Eldar? There's a big thing.
Khorne hasn't had new berserkers in ages ...save Khan.. they might be older than Sisters.
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
I agree with the good Inquisitor on all points.
WRT Chaos Marines, only Khorne gets regular updates. Nurgle runs a close second. Tzeentch a distant third. Slaanesh? Lucky to still be around. Undivided? Sorry. It's great that kSons are getting some love after all this time.
CSM are more significant to the Fluff and background than Sisters, that's not really arguable. Nids and Tau don't have much to do with Chaos, sure. But Eldar? There's a big thing.
CSM are more significant to the Fluff because the Space Marines are the MOST important faction to the Fluff. CSM are NOTHING without Loyalists and could be replaced entirely by demons without any other faction in the game being affected.
God no. The ragingheroes models are what I would consider the x-rated version and I really don't much care for that. Some of the sculpts are nice but for the most part they are too...girly for me, too much pin up.
Sister should be first and foremost about religious zeal. Showing skin makes somewhwat sense on the repentias, but the last thing I want to see is repentia with pinup poses.
That's just not what sisters are about, like... at all. That kind of stuff should stay on the internet *psst, give me link though*.
That's not to say they should all be wearing bob cuts, but yea. I really really don't want to see x-rated sisters. There are enough third party sellers for that already and they're no competition for even the existing metal minis as far as I'm concerned (save for the odd model). I also don't want "pretty marines" because of some misguided notion of attracting a female market or some-such nonsense.
You're right, Sisters are only a small part. and Space marines are the cornerstone of the game and the big sellers. But that's not the point you were arguing. You were arguing that the heresy defines the setting and it doesn't. For anybody who's not a marine player (spiky or otherwise) the heresy and marines are a non issue. Tyranids, Eldar, Tau, even the modern iteration of the guard, if the chaos marines were wiped out tomorrow, it would have no major bearing on the setting. So let sisters have their time in the sun. It's not as if chaos marines don't get regular updates anyway. Hell, the whole point of that video was to hype up plastic magnus and thousand sons.
I agree with the good Inquisitor on all points.
WRT Chaos Marines, only Khorne gets regular updates. Nurgle runs a close second. Tzeentch a distant third. Slaanesh? Lucky to still be around. Undivided? Sorry. It's great that kSons are getting some love after all this time.
CSM are more significant to the Fluff and background than Sisters, that's not really arguable. Nids and Tau don't have much to do with Chaos, sure. But Eldar? There's a big thing.
You're missing the points, or shifting them. I didn't say CSM were less significant than the sisters. They are important to the setting. I said they're not as intergral as presented. If you're a non marine player, then the heresy and CSM are insignificant. They have no particular bearing on any of the Xenos races. And i didn't say Chaos didn't matter to the Eldar, i said CSM. Different things in that context. And when was the last time undivided was even a thing? Did they ever have any specific models apart from Furies in all this time?
On a side note, i've done what i think is the sensible thing and actually emailed customer services and asked if they can give confirmation. If they've announced it in the video, then customer services should have no problem sending me an email back confirming what was said in the video was right.
I really do hope that if Sisters do come out they give them a proper "Witch Hunters" book with lots of options (Inquisition retinues, Storm Troopers, Inducted Guard) like in 3rd edition and don't end up producing another Codex which has like 10 total units in it. I mean anything is going to be better than what they did with the Scions book, but it is getting a bit tiresome seeing books come out with 6 or 7 unit choices. That said, it's better that we are seeing some of them (Harlequins are a good example) than nothing at all.
On a side note, i've done what i think is the sensible thing and actually emailed customer services and asked if they can give confirmation. If they've announced it in the video, then customer services should have no problem sending me an email back confirming what was said in the video was right.
GreenOak wrote: Playing Sisters currently shows a level of fiscal dedication higher even than that of FWHH fans.
Oh, please.
The problem is that GW gave us G-rated grimdark sisters, rather than the PG-13 version you pictured above, as opposed to the X-rated version we all want. If GW makes an "adults-only" version of the freakshow, I would buy it, but the schlock that they sold? No way.
Nice bunch of IG you've got there but seriously check out the prices of Sisters, ever since the availability started to plummet their prices have rocketed.
I like the "G-rated" version, might have liked a "PG-13" version and wouldn't have anything to do with an "X-rated" or "adult themed" version, that's not something I want to see in my gaming world thanks
Sabotage! wrote: I really do hope that if Sisters do come out they give them a proper "Witch Hunters" book with lots of options (Inquisition retinues, Storm Troopers, Inducted Guard) like in 3rd edition and don't end up producing another Codex which has like 10 total units in it. I mean anything is going to be better than what they did with the Scions book, but it is getting a bit tiresome seeing books come out with 6 or 7 unit choices. That said, it's better that we are seeing some of them (Harlequins are a good example) than nothing at all.
I actually hate this idea. I don't play sisters to play Inquisition and Storm Troopers, I play sisters to play sisters. 2 new multi use kits gives 4 new units minimum. That's enough to give us a few actual elites choices, and a new troop. Throw in a clam pack and plastic versions of what's actually in the codex and you're looking at right around the same number of units Dark Eldar have.
Every time the idea of a "Witch Hunters" codex comes up I can't help but fear that the non-sisters portions will be more point efficient and no one will bother to actually play sisters.
GreenOak wrote: Playing Sisters currently shows a level of fiscal dedication higher even than that of FWHH fans.
Oh, please.
Spoiler:
The problem is that GW gave us G-rated grimdark sisters, rather than the PG-13 version you pictured above, as opposed to the X-rated version we all want. If GW makes an "adults-only" version of the freakshow, I would buy it, but the schlock that they sold? No way.
Nice bunch of IG you've got there but seriously check out the prices of Sisters, ever since the availability started to plummet their prices have rocketed.
I like the "G-rated" version, might have liked a "PG-13" version and wouldn't have anything to do with an "X-rated" or "adult themed" version, that's not something I want to see in my gaming world thanks
That's half of my Imperial Guard infantry, to which I add Inquisition & Sisters. Sisters are priced comparably to metal Guard on a per-point basis.
I dislike the Pengine pilot, and abhor the Repentia. They completely fail to capture the essence of freakshow as pictured.
I highly doubt we'd be seeing storm troopers and the likes. Not with the inquistion codex and militarum tempestus. I could see more ecclesiarchy units, though with DW and genestealer cults I wouldn't be surprised if they got their own codex.
It's more than likely going to be 100% sisters, with some new units.
Every time the idea of a "Witch Hunters" codex comes up I can't help but fear that the non-sisters portions will be more point efficient and no one will bother to actually play sisters.
I agree. Inquisition have their own codex, so there's no reason to go back to "Witch Hunters". That being said, I miss the special rules from the old codex and wouldn't mind GW bringing them back. Rending like bolters, turning armor saves into invulnerable, hammerhand, and more stubborn LD bubbles made Sisters unique from other MEQ armies. Current Acts of Faith is weak sauce.
I seriously never thought I would see this from them. As great (relatively speaking) as their marketing has been lately it still won't save them if they don't do something about their prices.
Well I guess my opinion is in the minority. I generally just don't like seeing armies of GKs, DW, or pure sisters at the 40k scale (though that scale is quickly changing with flyers and knights and what not). The militant arms of the Ordos always seemed to me like something an Inquisitor could requisition a few squads of for a mission, and that was that. But you know, it's 40k and you can play an Army of knights at what is essentially large skirmish scale. As long as Sister fans get something they are happy with after the huge wait then i'll be happy GW is finally starting to listen to their fan base.
Heh. I thought there was more solid confirmation than that, since the thread was already 9 pages long.
Guess I forgot it was Dakka.
Honestly, I believe it's now possible with the "new" GW. Sisters don't have to become a major faction - just a "minor" one with a few troops would be enough.
One box for infantry and another for jump infantry with multi box vehicle and a few characters, and it's good enough. Really.
I just hope, if they release them at last, than it's not coming too soon. I seriously need to gather more money for this...
Sarouan wrote: Heh. I thought there was more solid confirmation than that, since the thread was already 9 pages long.
Guess I forgot it was Dakka.
Honestly, I believe it's now possible with the "new" GW. Sisters don't have to become a major faction - just a "minor" one with a few troops would be enough.
One box for infantry and another for jump infantry with multi box vehicle and a few characters, and it's good enough. Really.
I just hope, if they release them at last, than it's not coming too soon. I seriously need to gather more money for this...
Confirmation is the video and Lady Atia, so it doesn't get that much more official until the website and white dwarf.
There was a rumor about 5 years or so ago that plastic sisters CAD designs were completed but were not possible to cast do to undercuts on their robes.
Clearly that is no longer an issue for them, look no further then the Skitarii for proof.
People in the bussiness working with CAD designs *know* what can and what cannot be tooled in plastic, the designs are never "completed" only to find out that they are of no use to tool. And even if that was the case (which it isn't), all one has to do is go back to the files and fix the parts with the issue. I am pretty sure they know that
Well not really, you need to think in context because at the time they could have done them with a 3 part slide mold at idiotic cost and time was the follow up rumor if I remember. Or to speculate, they could have designed them without the drapery so it would be achievable but the aesthetic was all wrong and didn't jive with their standards so they shelved it.
@Red Corsair
I doubt they would move via "idiotic cost" considering their size but then again that's my personal opinion. As for the speculation on the design, fair enough but I posted in regards of the(ir) tooling capability and not on aesthetic grounds.
The "We can't cast the models consisten with the quality we want" was the Sisters of Battle equivalent of the "Tyranids at the Squats, now leave me alone."
The fact that people ever bought into that story is fairly amusing.
Sisters of Battle didn't get made on purpose. Sisters didn't get made because the demand for Sisters wasn't perceived to be high enough to justify replacing some other new product with Sisters of Battle. Now, with more designers and a better manufacturing process, Games Workshop has had the resources to devote to giving us essentially new product lines like AdMech Skitarii, Knights, and Genestealer Cult (given how long it's been since the models were available), and bringing back dormant lines like the Stormtroopers, Harlequins, Assassins, Deathwatch, etc.
What we're seeing here is a shift in the GW business model, and their attempts to broaden their product line to capture new customers, and sell more stuff to existing customers. This is important with a game that's been out for so long, because secondary markets like EBay are GW's biggest competitor. There are 30 years worth of Space Marines miniatures out in the world. But if you want these new products, you probably have to buy them new. I've, shudder, bought new-in-the-box GW products four times in the last two years after being a religious EBay Commando snaking all the best deals. How is that possible? GW has made things I want that don't exist on the secondary market.
This has nothing to do with GW suddenly being able to make multi-part Sisters of Battle.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: @Red Corsair
I doubt they would move via "idiotic cost" considering their size but then again that's my personal opinion. As for the speculation on the design, fair enough but I posted in regards of the(ir) tooling capability and not on aesthetic grounds.
Not disagreeing with you, your insight is great actually. I was just being as accurate to the original excuse as possible for why they never did it. The second explanation is just me trying to provide an example of a more likely reason. Either way, we will never know for sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Veteran Sergeant wrote: The "We can't cast the models consisten with the quality we want" was the Sisters of Battle equivalent of the "Tyranids at the Squats, now leave me alone."
The fact that people ever bought into that story is fairly amusing.
Sisters of Battle didn't get made on purpose. Sisters didn't get made because the demand for Sisters wasn't perceived to be high enough to justify replacing some other new product with Sisters of Battle. Now, with more designers and a better manufacturing process, Games Workshop has had the resources to devote to giving us essentially new product lines like AdMech Skitarii, Knights, and Genestealer Cult (given how long it's been since the models were available), and bringing back dormant lines like the Stormtroopers, Harlequins, Assassins, Deathwatch, etc.
What we're seeing here is a shift in the GW business model, and their attempts to broaden their product line to capture new customers, and sell more stuff to existing customers. This is important with a game that's been out for so long, because secondary markets like EBay are GW's biggest competitor. There are 30 years worth of Space Marines miniatures out in the world. But if you want these new products, you probably have to buy them new. I've, shudder, bought new-in-the-box GW products four times in the last two years after being a religious EBay Commando snaking all the best deals. How is that possible? GW has made things I want that don't exist on the secondary market.
This has nothing to do with GW suddenly being able to make multi-part Sisters of Battle.
Actually I agree with everything you have said sop far ITT.
Sabotage! wrote: Well I guess my opinion is in the minority. I generally just don't like seeing armies of GKs, DW, or pure sisters at the 40k scale (though that scale is quickly changing with flyers and knights and what not). The militant arms of the Ordos always seemed to me like something an Inquisitor could requisition a few squads of for a mission, and that was that. But you know, it's 40k and you can play an Army of knights at what is essentially large skirmish scale. As long as Sister fans get something they are happy with after the huge wait then i'll be happy GW is finally starting to listen to their fan base.
I'm the same, I always thought grey knights were so much cooler when they were just a squad of terminators with halberds (and that was it tabletop wise, no more than one squad). They were far more mysterious and special that way.
GreenOak wrote: I like the "G-rated" version, might have liked a "PG-13" version and wouldn't have anything to do with an "X-rated" or "adult themed" version, that's not something I want to see in my gaming world thanks
I would be fine with an adult version if “adult version” didn't mean “horny teenager version” but rather “require some maturity to appreciate” version. Sadly we all know it's never the case :(.
Sabotage! wrote: Well I guess my opinion is in the minority. I generally just don't like seeing armies of GKs, DW, or pure sisters at the 40k scale (though that scale is quickly changing with flyers and knights and what not). The militant arms of the Ordos always seemed to me like something an Inquisitor could requisition a few squads of for a mission, and that was that. But you know, it's 40k and you can play an Army of knights at what is essentially large skirmish scale. As long as Sister fans get something they are happy with after the huge wait then i'll be happy GW is finally starting to listen to their fan base.
I'm the same, I always thought grey knights were so much cooler when they were just a squad of terminators with halberds (and that was it tabletop wise, no more than one squad). They were far more mysterious and special that way.
Grey Knight are an elite group of space marines dedicated at fighting daemons. Deathwatch are an all-star team of space marines dedicated to fighting xenos. Both are very specific, highly specialized groups. So yeah, they don't make that much sense as whole armies. Sisters of battle are NOT a highly specialized group, they are the Ecclesiarchy all-purpose army. They do have a strong focus on being the Ecclesiarchy's internal affair department and on killing heretics but absolutely not to the extent of the other two groups, and they are explicitly described in the fluff as an army by their own right…
Veteran Sergeant wrote: The "We can't cast the models consisten with the quality we want" was the Sisters of Battle equivalent of the "Tyranids at the Squats, now leave me alone."
The fact that people ever bought into that story is fairly amusing.
Sisters of Battle didn't get made on purpose. Sisters didn't get made because the demand for Sisters wasn't perceived to be high enough to justify replacing some other new product with Sisters of Battle. Now, with more designers and a better manufacturing process, Games Workshop has had the resources to devote to giving us essentially new product lines like AdMech Skitarii, Knights, and Genestealer Cult (given how long it's been since the models were available), and bringing back dormant lines like the Stormtroopers, Harlequins, Assassins, Deathwatch, etc.
What we're seeing here is a shift in the GW business model, and their attempts to broaden their product line to capture new customers, and sell more stuff to existing customers. This is important with a game that's been out for so long, because secondary markets like EBay are GW's biggest competitor. There are 30 years worth of Space Marines miniatures out in the world. But if you want these new products, you probably have to buy them new. I've, shudder, bought new-in-the-box GW products four times in the last two years after being a religious EBay Commando snaking all the best deals. How is that possible? GW has made things I want that don't exist on the secondary market.
This has nothing to do with GW suddenly being able to make multi-part Sisters of Battle.
You're trying to make these things mutually exclusive when they are not.
If cost to make Sisters as desired quality > expected sales then don't do it. At some point there would be a lack of will to revisit, but with the expanded team their ability to visit smaller off-shoots has increased dramatically.
Sabotage! wrote: Well I guess my opinion is in the minority. I generally just don't like seeing armies of GKs, DW, or pure sisters at the 40k scale (though that scale is quickly changing with flyers and knights and what not). The militant arms of the Ordos always seemed to me like something an Inquisitor could requisition a few squads of for a mission, and that was that. But you know, it's 40k and you can play an Army of knights at what is essentially large skirmish scale. As long as Sister fans get something they are happy with after the huge wait then i'll be happy GW is finally starting to listen to their fan base.
I'm the same, I always thought grey knights were so much cooler when they were just a squad of terminators with halberds (and that was it tabletop wise, no more than one squad). They were far more mysterious and special that way.
Grey Knight are an elite group of space marines dedicated at fighting daemons. Deathwatch are an all-star team of space marines dedicated to fighting xenos. Both are very specific, highly specialized groups. So yeah, they don't make that much sense as whole armies. Sisters of battle are NOT a highly specialized group, they are the Ecclesiarchy all-purpose army. They do have a strong focus on being the Ecclesiarchy's internal affair department and on killing heretics but absolutely not to the extent of the other two groups, and they are explicitly described in the fluff as an army by their own right…
Good point, I knew there was some overlap between the Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy, but as I haven't read my Witch Hunter codex since 4th edition, I had spaced that they are technically the fighting forces of the Ecclesiarchy and in that regard are probably deployed in number by said organization. I had only remembered that they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (which is bizarre they can belong in two organizations, though I guess what a high enough ranked Inquisitor says pretty much goes, regardless of how odd it is).
I know i'm in the minority, but I prefer the plastic daemonettes to the diaz ones. They are much more weird and sinister imo, while the Diaz ones look like cosplaying bimbos (not that there's anything wrong with that, especially if they are in my bed, but i's a less interesting concept imo)
Sabotage! wrote: I had only remembered that they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (which is bizarre they can belong in two organizations, though I guess what a high enough ranked Inquisitor says pretty much goes, regardless of how odd it is).
Yeah that is weird fluff that only exists because GW had just released Inquisitor, the game with the huge miniatures, and decided they wanted to represent the Inquisition in 40k. So they decided to have a codex for each Ordo. But only Inquisitors wouldn't give enough material for a full codex, so they added Grey Knight to the Ordo Malleus (previously I don't know if they were affiliated with the Inquisition?), Sisters of Battle to the Ordo Hereticus (before they sometime worked together because of the Sisters role as Internal Affairs of the Ecclesiarchy, and specific hate for heretics) and Deathwatch for the Ordo Xenos (if I am not mistaken Deathwatch was introduced precisely in Inquisitor the Huge Models Game). But they never released Codex: Xenos Hunter.
Since then they downplayed the link with the Inquisition a lot for Sisters (and maybe for Grey Knights too?). For the Deathwatch though, their identity is very closely linked to the Ecclesiarchy, though from what I heard they now have Space Marine leaders rather than just obeying the Inquisition?
streetsamurai wrote: I know i'm in the minority, but I prefer the plastic daemonettes to the diaz ones. They are much more weird and sinister imo, while the Diaz ones look like cosplaying bimbos (not that there's anything wrong with that, especially if they are in my bed, but i's a less interesting concept imo)
Sabotage! wrote: I had only remembered that they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (which is bizarre they can belong in two organizations, though I guess what a high enough ranked Inquisitor says pretty much goes, regardless of how odd it is).
Yeah that is weird fluff that only exists because GW had just released Inquisitor, the game with the huge miniatures, and decided they wanted to represent the Inquisition in 40k. So they decided to have a codex for each Ordo. But only Inquisitors wouldn't give enough material for a full codex, so they added Grey Knight to the Ordo Malleus (previously I don't know if they were affiliated with the Inquisition?), Sisters of Battle to the Ordo Hereticus (before they sometime worked together because of the Sisters role as Internal Affairs of the Ecclesiarchy, and specific hate for heretics) and Deathwatch for the Ordo Xenos (if I am not mistaken Deathwatch was introduced precisely in Inquisitor the Huge Models Game). But they never released Codex: Xenos Hunter.
Since then they downplayed the link with the Inquisition a lot for Sisters (and maybe for Grey Knights too?). For the Deathwatch though, their identity is very closely linked to the Ecclesiarchy, though from what I heard they now have Space Marine leaders rather than just obeying the Inquisition?
If I remember my 2nd edition books well enough, Grey Knights were always affiliated with the Ordo Malleus. I don't believe the deathwatch were even mentioned as existing that far back and the sisters I don't believe were affiliated with the Hereticus, at least not BEFORE the sisters codex was released in 2nd edition.
No idea about Rogue trader era, but to be honest, the fluff has changed so much since then it's hardly canon any more in my eyes.
MadCowCrazy wrote: – 3 model Sisters unit on 50mm bases kit - This one is a curious one... No idea what it could be, probably something new as I can't think of a single thing sisters have that would require a larger base.
Well... I think the Centurion Warsuit would fit. Recovered from an STC design, meticulously examined for years and years to be affirmed as 'definitely not heretical', produced in mass quantities, and, iirc, not restricted to space marines for any technical reason...
I mean... it would be a realistic development, but obviously dubious from an artistic standpoint. So instead it'll be something remarkably similar in function to a centurion (thus filling a specific gap in the Sororitas' playstyle) but completely different looking and complete with its own overcomplicated back story.
As for the larger topic, I'm tentatively excited, but not quite willing to go dumpster diving just yet. At the very least it's an acknowledgement that the demand exists, even if it's the most blatant troll or sarcastic, it's preferable to aggressive denial that the demand exists at all.
Hive City Dweller wrote: I don't see the remark as GW trolling. Sure, if he had said "plastic sisters" without any further details that might not mean much, but why go out of the way to specify "cool, this isn't released for months yet; plastic sisters of battle".
So far these videos have been used to announce new products and build hype. The only video that was jokingly put out to advertise a false product was their April fool's "left handed paintbrush" video. This makes me think it's real, but "months" probably puts us well into 2017 for Sisters release.
Tbh when I heard it I though it was an extremely hilarious joke by the warhammer world staff, who have been making plastic sisters of battle jokes for years now.... This however is clutching at straws..... it's obvious to tell he's talking about something completely different thus the 4-5 second gap between the "cool, this isn't released for months yet"..... "Plastic sisters of battle?".... hell his tone even changes.
While I wouldn't be surprised if GW's current mindset would indeed plastic sisters were on the way, knowing some of the WHW staff personally, this is equally likely to have been an epic troll.
Sabotage! wrote: I had only remembered that they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (which is bizarre they can belong in two organizations, though I guess what a high enough ranked Inquisitor says pretty much goes, regardless of how odd it is).
Yeah that is weird fluff that only exists because GW had just released Inquisitor, the game with the huge miniatures, and decided they wanted to represent the Inquisition in 40k. So they decided to have a codex for each Ordo. But only Inquisitors wouldn't give enough material for a full codex, so they added Grey Knight to the Ordo Malleus (previously I don't know if they were affiliated with the Inquisition?), Sisters of Battle to the Ordo Hereticus (before they sometime worked together because of the Sisters role as Internal Affairs of the Ecclesiarchy, and specific hate for heretics) and Deathwatch for the Ordo Xenos (if I am not mistaken Deathwatch was introduced precisely in Inquisitor the Huge Models Game). But they never released Codex: Xenos Hunter.
Since then they downplayed the link with the Inquisition a lot for Sisters (and maybe for Grey Knights too?). For the Deathwatch though, their identity is very closely linked to the Ecclesiarchy, though from what I heard they now have Space Marine leaders rather than just obeying the Inquisition?
That would make sense, as at that time I had never really delved into Inquisitor, and pretty much only played 40k. I was a bit bummed back when Codex: Xenos Hunters never came out (I'm a pretty big fan of both Ordos Xenos and Ordos Hereticus). It looks like the Deathwatch is still very closely linked to the Inquisition, but in their new book they have Space Marine leaders (Watchmasters I think they are called). To be honest I haven't been following the 40k fluff to closely in the last few years because 1). There is so much of it 2) A lot of it I read was really bad (particularly back in 5th edition/ early 6th). So I will defer to your knowledge on Sisters and their current stance in the 40k universe.
Despite that the Inquisition and the more shadowy side of 40k (Chaos/Genestealer cults, etc.) being my favorite aspects of the universe, the Inquisition doesn't have a huge place in a game of 40k, though I can see why GW would shoehornCodices in alongside Inquisitor to sell models (and also I really enjoyed the Witch Hunters book). I think Inquisitors are much more suited to small (and often vital) operations in games of Kill Team or Inquisitor, and maybe GW should just give them a set of White dwarf rules to be able to include an Inquisitor and a retinue in an Imperial army. The current Inquisition codex is a joke (both in that the retinues are very lackluster, there are next to no choices, and that you can build a full army of Inquisitional henchmen). The concept of 50-60 Inquisitional henchmen in Land Raiders running into a headlong battle with Chaos Space Marines is just silly. I imagine an Inquisitor would more likely just requisition some Guard of Space Marines if they really needed to engage in a small war.
Tangents aside though, I do hope that if GW does go through with plastic Sisters they give them a (mostly) full Dark Eldar style plastic release, rather than just one box of Infantry and an accessory sprue for vehicles.
Sabotage! wrote: So I will defer to your knowledge on Sisters and their current stance in the 40k universe.
Yes, that is the only part of the 40k universe where I can tell you about the current stance, and mostly because it hasn't had an occasion to change lately ^^.
Sabotage! wrote: Despite that the Inquisition and the more shadowy side of 40k (Chaos/Genestealer cults, etc.) being my favorite aspects of the universe, the Inquisition doesn't have a huge place in a game of 40k, though I can see why GW would shoehornCodices in alongside Inquisitor to sell models (and also I really enjoyed the Witch Hunters book). I think Inquisitors are much more suited to small (and often vital) operations in games of Kill Team or Inquisitor, and maybe GW should just give them a set of White dwarf rules to be able to include an Inquisitor and a retinue in an Imperial army.
I agree that Inquisitor works best as an ally for another/multiple other army. Requisitioning and bossing around everyone! Though I think it should still be possible to make a full army out of retinue because some people already build armies like that, and some Inquisitor apparently like having their own dudes with them.
I don't need a "Sister Freak Show"... you have dark eldar and slaanesh for that. Let's hope GW does something different here.
Besides, I am the father to two lovely daughters who I am trying to share my love of miniature gaming with. The current line of sisters is great for showing powerful women who don't need to flaunt their sexuality (I also had great hopes for Captain Phasma... but I digress). Hopefully, Sisters can continue to be an army that I'm not ashamed to show my daughters (ours will have pink and purple streaks in their white hair... because, reasons."
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm excited. Read the whole thread, including the knuckle-dragging and chest-beating bits.
I think that GW will be true to form: Boxed game followed by a release.
The box will probably be sisters vs demons. Execution force has the cultists, and they aren't likely to step on those toes. Demons make sense, particularly with Thousand Sons being released before.
Ultimately, I see Sisters being a smaller release than Genestealers. more along the lines of Deathwatch because the vehicles get reused.
2 Infantry boxes make sense... Battle Sisters, Dominions, etc in one box. Veterans in another box (Celestians, etc)
Who knows what will be in on the rumored 50 mm bases.
They already have a plastic Immolator Sprue... not sure what needs to be done there.
Imagine if the opposing force was the lost and the damned and included an upgrade sprue much like the GC spurs for imperial guard.
Imagine if the opposing force was Necrons and the boxed game let you refight the Battle of Sanctuary 101.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm excited. Read the whole thread, including the knuckle-dragging and chest-beating bits.
I think that GW will be true to form: Boxed game followed by a release.
The box will probably be sisters vs demons. Execution force has the cultists, and they aren't likely to step on those toes. Demons make sense, particularly with Thousand Sons being released before.
Ultimately, I see Sisters being a smaller release than Genestealers. more along the lines of Deathwatch because the vehicles get reused.
2 Infantry boxes make sense... Battle Sisters, Dominions, etc in one box. Veterans in another box (Celestians, etc)
Who knows what will be in on the rumored 50 mm bases.
They already have a plastic Immolator Sprue... not sure what needs to be done there.
Imagine if the opposing force was the lost and the damned and included an upgrade sprue much like the GC spurs for imperial guard.
I'm wishlisting Sanctuary 101 mainly because I've been after an excuse to collect some Necrons as well as supplementing my Sisters.
Imagine if the opposing force was Gray Knights, and they came with paintbrushes to anoint themselves with the blood of the sisters in order to fight daemons.
crimson_caesar wrote: Why isn't there a faction with nude males as a unit? And multiple with nude/practically nude females in it?
I remember an old White Dward story that came along with the rules for Frateris Militia. Included a fully naked crazed priest. I would be totally up for this. Would work great with the themes or crazy fanatic of the army. A bit concerned about the maturity of the other players and the inevitable unsophisticated, annoying jokes that are sure to go with an army consisting mostly of female model also including a nude male model, though…
Daedalus81 wrote: You're trying to make these things mutually exclusive when they are not.
If cost to make Sisters as desired quality > expected sales then don't do it. At some point there would be a lack of will to revisit, but with the expanded team their ability to visit smaller off-shoots has increased dramatically.
There's no plausible scenario where the cost of a Sisters of Battle sprue was the balance between profiting on the product and not profiting on the product. Margins for GW's products were always pretty decent, which is why you can get product from online retailers for upwards of 25% off. A few extra cents in plastic wasn't going to break the bank on a product release. Especially given some of the wasteful sprue configurations we used to see.
Nah, it was always expected sales of Sisters vs expected sales of "something else".
I always point to the Necrons. The Necrons and the Sisters shared the same early development history. A limited metal figure range in 2nd Edition, then a larger re-release in metal for 3rd Edition.
For "some reason" the Necrons eventually got plastic troops and a complete model line revamp, and the Sisters did not. Of course, that "some reason' was expected sales. The Necrons figured out a way to displace "something else". Almost certainly because their limited metal range sold enough figures to suggest that a full army range would sell even more. In 1999, Sisters of Battle had just over 4 pages in the catalog. Necrons had 2. By 2004, the Necrons had plastic troops and the Sisters of Battle had gotten rolled into a codex with the Witch Hunters. A Codex that, mind you, didn't even require any Sisters of Battle models to play with.
) but I would not exclude the charm of the amazon on a male customer.
