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Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 07:45:55


Post by: Silent Puffin?


A Facebook page has appeared which seems to be revamping and re-releasing Confrontation.
https://www.facebook.com/confrontationresurrection/

Its mostly in French though so I'm not entirely sure what its about

http://www.sans-detour.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/communique-confresurrection-EN.pdf

Confirmation that a skirmish game and a board game are in development.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 07:58:05


Post by: Azazelx


A bit of speculation there about who the people behind that FB page actually are. Doesn't CMON own Confrontation now?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 09:27:32


Post by: streetsamurai


Not saying much. Only that there will be a skirmish game and a boardgame


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 09:53:38


Post by: overtyrant


 Azazelx wrote:
A bit of speculation there about who the people behind that FB page actually are. Doesn't CMON own Confrontation now?


That was back in 2011/12 I think. Would the licence of run out maybe?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 09:59:01


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


You'd think given it's numerous false starts people would let it lie?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 10:19:10


Post by: His Master's Voice


Did Confrontation have any false starts? I only remember it face planting when it tried to sell plastic prepaints to metal boutique model collectors and that was that. CMON had the licence for years, but as far as I recall never did anything remotely useful with it.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 10:21:15


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I'm sure there's been attempts to reboot it over the years? I may be getting confused with other stuff of course.

Main thing I remember about Confrontation from the olden days was PorSeer whacking off over the 'filigree', despite most of it being painted on.

I appreciated the sculpts, but not being a painter, didn't see much in it for me


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 11:10:36


Post by: Riquende


I know (of) someone that was tasked by CMON with rewriting the game but they didn't like the direction he went so the project was scrapped. There was also a company called Blackball who announced they had something in the pipeline in 2013 I think, but nothing ever came of it.

No idea what's going on here. The pdf says 'Stellar Licencing and Consulting", which according to Linkedin was founded last year. It's possible a new company has obtained the rights from CMON and are making a play to get this done. They list 'crowdfunding' as a speciality so I guess it'll all be Kickstartered.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 11:30:22


Post by: Asmodai


 His Master's Voice wrote:
Did Confrontation have any false starts? I only remember it face planting when it tried to sell plastic prepaints to metal boutique model collectors and that was that. CMON had the licence for years, but as far as I recall never did anything remotely useful with it.


The initial launch had a lot of translation problems, as well as boxes randomly coming with only French rules and cards, which they were unwilling to replace. I pretty much gave up on it at that point. I still have some of the metal models around that I use for D&D.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 13:07:04


Post by: Alpharius


 Azazelx wrote:
A bit of speculation there about who the people behind that FB page actually are. Doesn't CMON own Confrontation now?


They...did, but I'm not sure if they still do?

It also looked as if CMON 'replaced' Confrontation in their hearts (and release schedule) with WRATH OF KINGS, so...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 14:17:59


Post by: Mathieu Raymond


The publishing house that proposes this latest venture does the French version of Call of Cthulhu and some Spanish roleplaying games. Their website is very euro-centric (sorry Great Britain...) but I have seen some of their products in my FLGS, what with the phillistines who won't learn English no matter what.

Their "5 Supplices" (Five tortures, loosely) supplement looks great, so they can put out a quality product. They are a publisher, though, not a miniature company. They have not mentionned *anything* about who their miniature producer is.

This is the horse Raging Heroes should be hitching their wagon to, imho. If only they can sculpt males too.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:05:46


Post by: Riquende


What seems an interesting idea here is that they look to have moved beyond the Rag'Narok, so there could be massive upheaval across factions. One of the things I've long thought would be an impediment to any new Confrontation game is how you deal with players' existing collections - there are a lot of extraneous profiles that bloated the game over its 10 years, many of which tread on each others toes. And yet if you scrap a lot of it you'd end up not getting the support of the Rackham nostalgists whose stuff is then invalidated.

If they instead say that older models can represent just a handful of new, post-Rag'Narok profiles then it might give them the design space needed to grow a new game whilst throwing a bone to people looking for any chance to come back.

I always think that Confrontation was just a little bit ahead of its time. In the days when few published games looked much beyond GW style dice rolling, Confrontation's melee system was something crazy - allocating your dice pool between attack and defence, choosing whether you wanted to 'roll up' a 6 to make the enemy's defence harder at the risk of rolling a 1 and failing your attack completely, a wounding mechanic that incorporated where on the body you were landing blows etc. I also think today's online tools and builders for games like Infinity would have been a godsend for dealing with who could take what artifact, spell etc back in the day.

Damnit I'm getting excited now ust remembering the game, this is absolutely going to end up in tears!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:23:33


Post by: Alpharius


Absolutely!

I loved the Confrontation combat mechanics... but yes, some rules/profiles bloat towards the end!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:26:16


Post by: Bewulf


 Azazelx wrote:
Doesn't CMON own Confrontation now?

No, I don't think so.
IIRC when Rackham went under Cyanide Studio (the computer game company that does the Bloodbowl games) bought the complete IP. They then licensed some of it to Legacy Minatures/CMoN.

LM/CMoN was working on "Confrontation: Phoenix" in 2012. Backers of their Guilds of Cadwallon Kickstarter were promised a preview. But when LM/CmoN asked a few selected Confrontation veterans on their opinion about "Phoenix" the response was apparently so bad that they scrapped the project completely.

Edit to include the info about Legacy Miniatures.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:28:37


Post by: His Master's Voice


Bewulf wrote:
But when CmoN asked a few selected Confrontation veterans on their opinion about "Phoenix"(...)


I can see where it all went wrong...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:35:42


Post by: Alpharius


I do vaguely remember that - there was a forum that was the 'host' to the playtest group...

Anyway, I really do think it's apparent that CMON Confrontation became CMON Wrath of Kings, so maybe this is for real?

Not super-excited if we end up with dodgy translations again, but happy enough if it means Confrontation returns!

https://www.facebook.com/confrontationresurrection/

Welcome to the official page of Confrontation-Resurrection.
After the ultimate confrontation of ragnarok, the factions maimed and disorganized troll again the world of aarklash, hungry for revenge and conquests. The ways of the light, the meanders of darkness and the paths of destiny nursing their wounds and prepare to new clashes.
Griffon, RAM, boar, immobilis, Sphinx... what banner will gather enough strength to chop down his rivals?
In 2017, without-detour revives the flame of the battles.


(Note: That's a Facebook translation!)


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 15:42:30


Post by: Riquende


Dragonpainting has disappeared entirely but I think it held much of the history of Confrontation's various attempts at coming back. One of the main guys there, who was a UK tournament veteran and worked on some profiles for some of CMON's 'Legacy Miniatures' range of previously unreleased Rackham sculpts, said that he'd been approached to write a new version. Before he'd really gotten anywhere the project had been taken away from him though, next thing he knew Blackball were involved with this 'Phoenix' edition. No doubt he was one of the selected veterans who provided feedback.

Looking back through Dakka threads on Confrontation I found this from Jan' 2013, though it was pulled from Dragonpainting from August 2012

Spoiler:

Hi guys, this is Matthew Hope with Blackball Games. Still recovering from GenCon where we had a great experience demoing the beta rules for Confrontation Phoenix. I'd like to take this chance to introduce myself and answer a few questions.

Duncan Huffman and I formed Blackball Games a few years ago to provide game design services to the industry as well as find an outlet for our own projects. Since our inception we've provided contract game design for Soda Pop Miniatures with Relic Knights, Cool Mini Or Not with Wrath of Kings as well as a number of other companies. I am the lead game designer for AE-WWII and AE-Bounty and Duncan has years of experience in the organized play and marketing with Privateer Press. We have been avid Confrontation fans since the early days of C2 and are honored to have been given the opportunity to tackle Phoenix.

CMON will be launching the Phoenix website in the next week or two and, once live, we will be using it as our vehicle to provide information and answer questions. We will also be looking for members of the community to help us in the monumental task of testing Phoenix with the hundreds (if not thousands) of reference cards, spells, miracles and artifacts out there. So keep an eye out for the website to go live where we will be able to address the questions and concerns that are already pouring in. I can hit a few of the questions from this thread.

- There is no release date planned for Phoenix. The rules are still in beta, so there's a lot that's still in the air.
- We're rolling back the rules and setting to the C3 book we know and love, while making some changes that focus on balance, streamlining rules and speeding gameplay.
- The plan is to stick with square bases.
- Some models will see a (sometimes significant) increase in AP value, though some costs will decrease.
- We have not finalized what factions will be released or any other decisions regarding release schedule, etc.
- The cards used in the demo are early versions and do not necessarily represent the final copies.

Keep an eye out for the Phoenix website to go live - join our Facebook page for updates. We are so honored to be working on a game that so many of us loved so passionately. I think we have a great opportunity to bring back a game that was truly great. Thanks for your patience and support!


No idea if they ever communicated again.

But anyway, let's not dwell on the past!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 16:22:52


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Ohhhh, i am guessing if they do this, it will be a complete new line of miniature? Anyway if this is official i am really exited!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 16:35:22


Post by: Alpharius


Riquende - thank you!

I couldn't remember Dragon Painting and Blackball Games!

Holding out hope that this is for real, that the mechanics are similar to 'real' Confrontation and that this isn't going to be another pre-painted attempt with the brand...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 16:56:26


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


I think there is a chance this is a fan-made and not official with a license. But not sure...
Or maybe not, is this the publisher? www.sans-detour.com Looks thrust worthy i guess?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 17:31:36


Post by: Khornate25


I do hope for a return of Confrontation. I became a wargamer in 2010, when the crappy last edition died.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 17:39:14


Post by: lord marcus


I've repurposed my Wolfenstein into a kings of war army, and thier decently priced out there, so I'd welcome a return for more well priced minis.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 17:44:07


Post by: Mathieu Raymond


For a game that began with a simple little leaflet included in every purchase, the game was great.

If they are past the Ragnarok, maybe they can switch to round bases, and publish free profiles, called battle papyrii, on a website. Although they did create an IP that was rich. The books that came with some of the minis were well written. Come to think of it, it was the only RPG/minis gaming I ever did in my native language.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 17:48:03


Post by: MLaw


When the original was still around, my gaming group had a bilingual guy teaching the game. It also happened to be difficult back then to get the proper figures though. I've always mentally lumped Confrontation in with the old Void days before I-Kore went up as a cool game that suffered from poor logistics. I can see how not having a French stopgap could exasperate the problem.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 18:03:11


Post by: Monkeysloth


I know a bit more about the CMoN days of Confrontation due to being on Dragonpaiting a lot back then.

Basically, license wise, you have Cyanide Studios (video game company) has the main over license (not sure if they own it or licenses it from someone else) who licensed their stuff to a company called Legacy who then teamed up (and eventually sold the license I believe) to CMoN.

Everyone is correct in that there were 2 different versions of the rules, one done by Blackball. The first set was really disliked by the Confrontation fanbase (as there was a limited alpha) and so there was a rework that never materialized and getting into the beta was part of a reward for an early CMoN kickstarter that they never delivered on nor addressed (that I'm aware of).

The main reason, according to the person I know that use to work on the Confrontation project for CMoN, that the game never came to light is because they didn't see it financially viable due to the hugely popular re-castor that's well known that sells all the old sculpts, new ones and provides the 3.5 rules too. Apparently they were frustrated with one of the license holders father up the chain who weren't bothering to go after the re-castor to shut them down as I remember once it was stated that as soon as Cyanide (I believe) took care of it they'd release the game.

Another reason, that I've only heard speculated but makes sense knowing the community, is CMoN was worried about the cost of metal but didn't think the community would accept the figures in plastic.

Where exactly WoK falls into this I'm not 100% sure but I know it was in development before CMoN got their hands on the Confrontation license. There were concept art up on Dragon Painting long before.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 19:12:37


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I'm pretty sure Blackball were the folks behind the version 2.0 Sedition Wars rules too


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 19:35:12


Post by: Psykostevo


I think that Paolo Parente of Dust Studios owns the IP for Confrontation from when Rackham went out of business. I think they were in debt to him for the production of the Confrontation and AT-43 miniatures, or something like that.

From there I think he put the license under a sub-business of Cyanide Studios or something and CMON had the license to sell the resin cast versions of the original miniatures lines.

I'll ask Paolo next week if he has anything to do with the relaunch of Confrontation, because I think this could be a cool relaunch.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 19:59:06


Post by: spiralingcadaver


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'm pretty sure Blackball were the folks behind the version 2.0 Sedition Wars rules too
Now that you mentioned it, yeah, IIRC they were.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 20:15:08


Post by: fresus


It was indeed a great game, and was actually as popular as GW products in my circle at its peak (but I suppose it was much more popular in France than elsewhere).

The facebook post doesn't say much, just that the story will be after Ragnarok, and that they'll keep the same aesthetic. Most of the text talks about how much the community is great and still keeps the game alive, so it feels like they really want to exploit the players' nostalgia.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 20:17:47


Post by: Monkeysloth


 spiralingcadaver wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'm pretty sure Blackball were the folks behind the version 2.0 Sedition Wars rules too
Now that you mentioned it, yeah, IIRC they were.


They also had a hand in WoK and Relic Knights. They were CMoN's go to rules writers for several years.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 20:55:13


Post by: Time 2 Roll


I wouldn't mind seeing a return of Confrontation.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 21:25:09


Post by: Theophony


Let it die already .

If Poalo owns the rights and brings it back it will have cheesecake boobs on everything....even the dwarves and goblins


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/08 21:28:46


Post by: Elbows


The old metals were pretty damn gorgeous (if a bit...specific in their aesthetic). I remember collecting some back in college. I'd be happy to see a proper line of miniatures again - the pre-painted stuff was pretty poor by comparison.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 03:03:31


Post by: Jehan-reznor


I wouldn't mind a return of Confrontation, i liked it, some gorgeous miniatures


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 03:22:10


Post by: Ernster


Some new Wolfen and Devourers would be awesome!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 03:23:57


Post by: Mr. CyberPunk


Confrontation was the game that brought me back into miniature games (after I quit during my teens and early adulthood). The rules were great and the minis (usually) stunning. Though, it did seem to suffer quite a bit from power creepness were new releases would blow out old ones out of the water, and, like current 40K, it was overbloated and hard to keep up with all the new releases. Their solution (4th Ed Age of Ragnarok, mmm, that sound pretty familiar :s ) was simply a disaster. The rules super messy and worst of all, the pre-painted plastic minis, not only overpriced, but plain awful.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 03:37:37


Post by: Alpharius


Yes, the last edition of the game - Confragnarok - and the Pre-Painted Minis were certainly the death blow for the Confrontation brand and for Rackham.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 05:26:32


Post by: streetsamurai


Yeah that was a mindboggling decision. A thousdand time worse than AOS introduction


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 15:55:28


Post by: Bewulf


English announcement flyer is up: http://www.sans-detour.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/communique-confresurrection-EN.pdf

What is interesting is that "Stellar Licensing & Consulting Limited" is listed as trademark owner of "Confrontation, Cadwallon and Aarklash" on the flyer while my searches still show Cyanide as trademark holder for the EU and US.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:22:31


Post by: judgedoug


I would kill for a relaunch of the prepainted plastics. They are still some of the best sculpted plastic models ever released by any manufacturer - the Lion and Ram, especially, and the best prepaints ever, putting most average-skilled painters to shame.

Plus, the game was absolutely fun.

It's a shame the steel molds are rusting in a warehouse in China somewhere.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:24:34


Post by: streetsamurai


These abominations are not coming back any time soon


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:28:04


Post by: Alpharius


I'm just glad that we don't seem to be talking about the return of the pre-painted plastic stuff here though.

Maybe you saw some great stuff somewhere?

But I never did - especially compared to the brilliance that was their metals.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:29:15


Post by: judgedoug


I always wondered how the Rackham sculptors felt when they produced work that was orders of magnitude superior to the metal sculpts only to have a handful of vocal people claim they were 'abominations'

Yet no one has produced better undead models before or since the plastic Ram..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alpharius wrote:
I'm just glad that we don't seem to be talking about the return of the pre-painted plastic stuff here though.

Maybe you saw some great stuff somewhere?

But I never did - especially compared to the brilliance that was their metals.


I just did. The Lion and the Ram armies were beautiful. Superior sculpts to the metals and painted better than the vast majority of painters.

The metals were great for late 90's and early 2000's, but most of them needed an update, which the same sculptors then provided for C4, outshining their earlier brilliant work.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:31:12


Post by: Alpharius


They probably just figured that 'all sorts of people have all sorts of opinions' and that the pre-paints really let down the sculpting, maybe?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:36:05


Post by: judgedoug


 Alpharius wrote:
They probably just figured that 'all sorts of people have all sorts of opinions' and that the pre-paints really let down the sculpting, maybe?


Sure, and those opinions are wrong. Especially when the evidence of, say, the Lion Chimera, handily proves the point. The original sculpt is pretty great for 1998, the resculpt (and prepaint) is like an order of magnitude better. Same goes for the rest of the Lion range, honestly.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:44:03


Post by: streetsamurai


But of course, nearly everyone is wrong except you


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:44:36


Post by: Alpharius


 judgedoug wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
They probably just figured that 'all sorts of people have all sorts of opinions' and that the pre-paints really let down the sculpting, maybe?


Sure, and those opinions are wrong. Especially when the evidence of, say, the Lion Chimera, handily proves the point. The original sculpt is pretty great for 1998, the resculpt (and prepaint) is like an order of magnitude better. Same goes for the rest of the Lion range, honestly.


That might be one of the most hilariously ridiculous things you've ever typed, anywhere!

But it will at least get me to go look for pics of these minis again!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:51:33


Post by: Theophony


I have a bunch of wolfen prep Anita that I can field a kings of war army with (ogres or undead using them as werewolves). Between Miniaturemarket having them on clearance all the time and wrath of kings using the same sculptor (I think), there is plenty of variety. Plus more and more wolfen keep showing up in Kickstarters like massive darkness, zombicide Black Plague and others. I never played confrontation, back then the looks were not appealing to me, and the gryphon are definitely not to my liking in the prepaints, but they are great models from the time period.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:54:42


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


No mini line inspired me more to learn to paint that perfect NMM, and the dreams still lingers.
Reading the Cry Havoc magazine painting guide and their awesome terrain building guides.
The hobby is a big part of it all. Nobody wanted those pre-paints thats why you still can buy them for bargain prices and the metals sell for premium on ebay.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 16:57:30


Post by: Riquende


I'm finding I can't form any sort of coherent reaction to the sentiment that the plastics were 'orders of magnitude' superior to the metals. My brain just can't seem to resolve that into anything making a lick of sense, sorry.

If what we're going to end up with here is a reissue of those plastics then I think a lot of people will be instantly out, much as they were 7-8 years ago!

Also, I've seen somewhere that the people behind this are releasing more info tomorrow, I think in the form of a video. Third hand information though so could be well off.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:05:58


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I thought the prepaints were pretty good for the time.

I have to agree on the Chimera too- if you compare that thing to what Wiz Kids and WOTC were doing at the time, its way beyond what else was on the market.

Of course sculpt-wise most of the plastics didn't even come close to the quality of the metals, but its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison these days.
In hindsight it would have been cool to see both lines coexist, as there were certainly demands for both types of figures.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:10:13


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


I'll throw another thumbs up for the poor maligned pre-paints. The whole lions range is pretty nice as is most of the wolfen stuff and the gunpowder guys. I've never seen the undead in person so can't comment.

One of the problems I noticed with the wolves was that there seemed to be 2 version of the same models, one with lots of painted detail and the same model (starter set maybe?) that only came with 2 or 3 colors. I've repainted those and the white Vestals that I didn't like and got nice results.

Obviously the move from boutique unpainted metal to prepainted plastics was not what a lot of fans wanted to see. But looking back at those models - never having the brand-love bias - they ARE really nice models. The sculpt as good or far better than anything of that time and miles better than any prepaint of that era.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:12:03


Post by: streetsamurai


There's a difference between saying the prepainted minis were decen or even good (which I think they were, the AT 43 ones were good also), and saying that they were much better than the metal ones (which amount to fishing for attention)


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:35:41


Post by: judgedoug


haha, that's why a C4 Ram army box sells for upwards of $400 alone, and $100+ for a unit of Vamphyrs.

It's not fishing for attention, it's a compliment to the sculptors. They did a much, much better job.

I think there's some weird groupthink going on where rose-tinted glasses somehow think this sculpt, which would be laughable if Mantic released it,

Spoiler:


is somehow on the same level as this sculpt






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
One of the problems I noticed with the wolves was that there seemed to be 2 version of the same models, one with lots of painted detail and the same model (starter set maybe?) that only came with 2 or 3 colors. I've repainted those and the white Vestals that I didn't like and got nice results.


Yes, this is the one that most of the C4 haters remember. Rackham released the starter sets with like 4 color paint jobs. Rackham-E then released starter sets with full paint jobs. Unfortunately, the Wolfen army box was the one that got into the wild. The sculpts are still fantastic, though, the same sculptor as the metal Wolfen range, really able to let his talent go wild as he was able to work with larger models without the limitations of the metal medium. By the time Rackham reorganized as Rackham-E and made the smart decision to include the fully painted models in the army boxes for Lion and Ram - with shading and higlighting and decals applied - it was too late.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:41:51


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Nice boobs!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:47:51


Post by: Triple9


 judgedoug wrote:
haha, that's why a C4 Ram army box sells for upwards of $400 alone, and $100+ for a unit of Vamphyrs.



Really? Hmmm, I should look at selling mine. When Rackham went under, I spent the next year picking up one of every SKU from AT-43 and C4. I remember ordering a C4 rulebook from MM for $1 and they just sent me a starter set. Was hoping maybe they would get resurrected somewhere along the line, but that's pretty good coin for something that's just collecting dust.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 17:52:07


Post by: judgedoug


 Alpharius wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
They probably just figured that 'all sorts of people have all sorts of opinions' and that the pre-paints really let down the sculpting, maybe?


Sure, and those opinions are wrong. Especially when the evidence of, say, the Lion Chimera, handily proves the point. The original sculpt is pretty great for 1998, the resculpt (and prepaint) is like an order of magnitude better. Same goes for the rest of the Lion range, honestly.


That might be one of the most hilariously ridiculous things you've ever typed, anywhere!

But it will at least get me to go look for pics of these minis again!


It's funny cuz it's true! On any subject you can have a myriad of opinions - but it doesn't mean they're all valid or correct. Especially in this case. A huge, huge portion of the Confrontation range was aging, and really showing the signs. The rage today is as humorous as the rage when R and R-E were releasing them, as it was the same sculptors redoing their earlier efforts, making better models, working in a superior medium that allowed them to make larger and more complex models with far more dynamic sculpts, but because it wasn't super precious metals, there were tears shed everywhere in every direction.

Personally I can't even stand the look of the C3 Lion of Alahan or Ram of Acheron models anymore, they're so.. .bad, goofy, awkward sculpts that would be fine for lowest-bidder Reaper Bones releases nowadays. The plastics are just better. Even the Wolfen plastics are overall superior to the metal C3 sculpts, with the exception of a few characters and the Worgs. It's a pity they never got to the Devourers! Stephan Simon's best work for Rackham were his plastic sculpts (and his metal ones are probably the only ones from the C3 range that still hold up to this day)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Triple9 wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:
haha, that's why a C4 Ram army box sells for upwards of $400 alone, and $100+ for a unit of Vamphyrs.



Really? Hmmm, I should look at selling mine. When Rackham went under, I spent the next year picking up one of every SKU from AT-43 and C4. I remember ordering a C4 rulebook from MM for $1 and they just sent me a starter set. Was hoping maybe they would get resurrected somewhere along the line, but that's pretty good coin for something that's just collecting dust.


If you have the RAM, then yes, definitely, But they sold so fast that only the first production wave made it to stores before R-E went under. I'd double check if I were you.
I actually sold 2 starter boxes, a unit of Wamphyrs, and one or two extra sets, for $900 a couple years ago. They are highly valued as the plastic C4 Ram range is often considered the best sculpts that Rackham ever released.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


I used Confrontation Lion of Alahan plastic prepaints as the bulk of this Kings of War army here - https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558282.page


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 19:31:30


Post by: streetsamurai


 judgedoug wrote:
haha, that's why a C4 Ram army box sells for upwards of $400 alone, and $100+ for a unit of Vamphyrs.

It's not fishing for attention, it's a compliment to the sculptors. They did a much, much better job.

I think there's some weird groupthink going on where rose-tinted glasses somehow think this sculpt, which would be laughable if Mantic released it,

Spoiler:


is somehow on the same level as this sculpt




.




That's not a good argument. Them selling for that much is not a proof of the quality of the sculpts. Some hero quest expansions and OOP citadel minis are selling at almost a 1000$. Doesn't means that the sculpts are high quality (I have them and they are rather poor). As you said, the reason that the Ram box are going for so much is due to their scarcity.

And I can understand defending the sculpt, but defending the material leaves me completely thunderstrcuk. The plastic they used was soft as butter. I usually prefer plastic to metal, bit no way was THAT plastic superior to metal.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 20:15:20


Post by: NAVARRO


I dont know, its been a while and interests shifted.
I for one will let the hundreds of posts and opinions about the fiasco that PPP was for R, RIP in the long forgotten Rackham forums…
Dont care about it anymore. Its dead.

On the other hand I care about the minis and those are forever some of the best in the industry.

Main question would be if I will jump on board again collecting them like a mad man like I did back then. Not today.
I still have my Uraken and to be honest dont need more.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 20:40:56


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The plastic minis were good sculpts. Not as detailed, perhaps, as the metals, but good nonetheless, and they worked well alongside one another.

The problem was the painting - nowhere near the standard of AT-43, and they made the sculpts look worse than they were.

Also, Rackham changed from square to round bases before it was cool.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 20:53:29


Post by: rwwin


Like or hate the plastics, I'd bet a lot of money they won't be coming back. Some years ago Paolo Parente did an online Q&A about dust and took a question about AT-43 as well.

He stated pretty flatly that the molds for AT-43 had stayed with the Chinese manufacturer after Rackham's liquidation and would be melted down. It doesn't talk about the Confrontation molds but I'd wager they ended up in the same boat. There was an earlier interview I can't find where he said that the Chinese company was owed hundreds of thousands of dollars by Rackham when they folded and they tried to use the molds as leverage but that no one in the settlement wanted them enough to offer anything.

Here's a link to the Q&A:

http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2012/08/dust-warfare-interview-with-paolo.html


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 21:02:10


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 streetsamurai wrote:


And I can understand defending the sculpt, but defending the material leaves me completely thunderstrcuk. The plastic they used was soft as butter. I usually prefer plastic to metal, bit no way was THAT plastic superior to metal.


To be fair, lots of their metal was ALSO soft as butter. I've seen pure lead from recasters that was stronger.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 21:41:49


Post by: Chairman Aeon


Resculpt the old stuff to modern standards and give me the skirmish rules back and I'll try it.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 21:57:03


Post by: gohkm


On the Confrontation-Haven forum, it's stated by a member of Confrontation EVO team that these new guys has the IP proper now.

No sure how that can be verified, but for the first time in a long time, I'm quietly optimistic that this Confrontation product isn't going to turn into vapourware.

If they really go to Kickstarter, I can see myself dropping an absolute ton on it, even more than I did on Kingdom Death. Depending on whether they keep the aesthetic true to form, and the material, of course.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/09 23:02:35


Post by: Bewulf


gohkm wrote:
On the Confrontation-Haven forum, it's stated by a member of Confrontation EVO team that these new guys has the IP proper now.

No sure how that can be verified, ...

If they do have the IP they are not handling things correctly. They are putting a TM (unregistered trade mark) on "Confrontation" and "Cadwallon" and claim ownership, but they can not do that because those are already registered trade marks belonging to Cyanide.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 00:12:30


Post by: AegisGrimm


Personally, I love all my armies for AT-43 and Age of Ragnorok. I would never sell them, and I liked both of the games' rules, too.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 00:24:09


Post by: youwashock


Loved Rackham's style. I hope it makes a real comeback this time.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 00:58:27


Post by: Smokestack


The prepainted minis were not that bad. I get that they were not for the serious painter collector, but overall they were better than the DND prepaints or the current pathfinder prepaints. I have a ton of Wulfen and Lions and a lot of the other stuff I got cheap at Miniature market. I still use these in my Pathfinder games. The Wulfen in particular are pretty great for prepaints.

I think a big part of the problem was they were kind of expensive for the casual gamer. Which is who I think they were trying to target.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 01:06:16


Post by: Monkeysloth


The real issue with the PPP isn't anything related to the sculpts or even the paint jobs (which were both good for the time, way better then wizkids the only real other company doing them) but that it's not what fans of the game wanted and they lost more people then they brought on with the change.

rwwin wrote:
Like or hate the plastics, I'd bet a lot of money they won't be coming back. Some years ago Paolo Parente did an online Q&A about dust and took a question about AT-43 as well.

He stated pretty flatly that the molds for AT-43 had stayed with the Chinese manufacturer after Rackham's liquidation and would be melted down. It doesn't talk about the Confrontation molds but I'd wager they ended up in the same boat. There was an earlier interview I can't find where he said that the Chinese company was owed hundreds of thousands of dollars by Rackham when they folded and they tried to use the molds as leverage but that no one in the settlement wanted them enough to offer anything.

Here's a link to the Q&A:

http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2012/08/dust-warfare-interview-with-paolo.html


They're still around, at least some. Ludic Bazzar was selling a few as collectors items for several years and when Legacy got the rights for the miniatures they started cataloging things. CMoN with Legacy even released several sculpts that hand been finished but never released as limited editions years ago as well as resin releases of some of the common sets which was confusing as they weren't hard to find in metal for reasonable prices which is why no one bought them until CMoN had a confrontation clearance several years ago to get rid of all the Legacy stuff.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 01:09:34


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Team plastic, here. I gave away my Confrontation metals, but I kept my plastics.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 01:24:00


Post by: Jehan-reznor


I hope they are smart enough (if they go the same route) to sell painted and unpainted miniatures. Not sure if there will be metal as well as plastic miniatures.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 02:11:24


Post by: Dagstyrr


I want to believe, Confrontation was one of my favorite skirmish games. I remember fondly actually finding some on a trip to France before I even knew what they were.

I still have a bit of the literature laying around somewhere, but it is hard to motivate people to play a "dead" system. I know it is difficult, but they should maybe try and stick closer to what people like myself so fondly recall, quality of sculpts and a setting that truly seemed inspired.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 02:19:18


Post by: ced1106


 Smokestack wrote:
The prepainted minis were not that bad. I get that they were not for the serious painter collector, but overall they were better than the DND prepaints or the current pathfinder prepaints. I have a ton of Wulfen and Lions and a lot of the other stuff I got cheap at Miniature market. I still use these in my Pathfinder games. The Wulfen in particular are pretty great for prepaints.

I think a big part of the problem was they were kind of expensive for the casual gamer. Which is who I think they were trying to target.


Maybe had they gone for roleplayers, like the D&D prepainted mini's, perhaps they would have fared better. Miniature wargamers, I think, expect to paint their miniatures, so anything prepainted doesn't add value to them,


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 03:23:46


Post by: streetsamurai


 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I hope they are smart enough (if they go the same route) to sell painted and unpainted miniatures. Not sure if there will be metal as well as plastic miniatures.


It's obvious that they won't sell PPP. It would be completely insane to re-release the game with the same material that was responsible for its bankruptcy. The decision to switch from metal to PPP was probably the worst decision in the history of nerd hobby. It makes D&D 4th edition and GW blowing up the old world and putting 'joke' rules in AOS, seem like sound business decisions.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 05:18:59


Post by: .Mikes.


You think they'd be smart enough to take advantage of the cult following the pre Ragnarok and melted models had.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 06:05:58


Post by: RiTides


I'll keep an eye on this for sure, some of their original models were just amazing! And I'm with you streetsamurai, it seems pretty clear they won't be repeating the route that led to their demise...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 07:21:49


Post by: plastictrees


Interesting. Would have been more excited about this a few years ago.
It's a tricky thing to relaunch. If you can't produce all the old models and are largely starting from scratch do you support all the old models with rules while you catch up with resculpts?
Do you start from scratch entirely and let people proxy their old models for whatever but with no 'official' support?
You don't want to just be producing a ruleset for people to use their old models with, that's not a recipe for success.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 15:40:15


Post by: Duncan_Idaho


It was actually not the plastic miniatures that killed Rackham, it was the new mother company. (The legal action is even today not completly resolved). They were just recovering from some rough times, when the mother company folded and it was revealed that they had drained Rackham of all money while letting them at the same time order new stuff.

Rights are all over the place. There are at least 5-7 companies/people that own rights and legally it is still a nightmare.

The plastic big-boxes were quite decent prepainted miniatures


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 17:28:09


Post by: streetsamurai


the switch to the PPP completely killed their sales. It's the main reason why they went bankrupt.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 23:04:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Perhaps. AT-43 seemed to be doing quite well. Mind you, that game had a higher quality of paint application than the Confrontation: Age of Rag'Narok minis, and wasn't a re-invention of a range that had a reputation for being "painters' minis".

I think Rackham simply didn't have the capital to do it properly - both AT-43 and C:AoR had huge supply problems - core units were unavailable for long periods, new models weren't introduced fast enough, that sort of thing.

Actually, given the choice, I think I'd rather have a new AT-43 game than a new Confrontation game.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 23:07:19


Post by: AegisGrimm


AT-43 was really fun. I loved how shooting effectiveness was tied to the range of the shot (Age of Ragnorok has the same mechanic).


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 23:42:20


Post by: AndrewGPaul


And does what 40k should have done (3rd ed was getting there, but they rolled it back in subsequent editions) - abstracted special weapon troopers and leaders down to simply properties of the squad in general, rather than worrying about exactly where each model was - you measure ranges to and from the squad leaders.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/10 23:49:31


Post by: Alpharius


Hopefully this isn't going to try and be Confragnarok - a larger scale game - and hopefully it will be more Confrontation - a true skirmish scale game.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 12:18:47


Post by: Duncan_Idaho


the switch to the PPP completely killed their sales. It's the main reason why they went bankrupt.


Definitely not, I experienced first hand what happened and AT-43 went quite well. The switch for Confrontation was a bit too fast, but sales for Confro were decreasing already before the switch to plastic or even AT-43.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 13:09:32


Post by: AegisGrimm


Yeah, I remember how people on the Rackham forums were clamoring for AT-43 material that Rackham couldn't keep supplied- even the models that were the first released for the game like Fire Toads and Star Troopers for the UNA. It was definitely more of a problem on the company side than noone buying the product.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 13:32:32


Post by: overtyrant


I remember AT-43 beign really expensive. I think there was a specialist box that if you wanted multiples of one weapon/specialist you had to buy multiple boxes even if you didn't want to use the others. I'm pretty sure that's why it ever took off here.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 17:39:22


Post by: AegisGrimm


A couple of units had wonky options like that if you wanted to min-max, but an AT-43 army of comparable size to a 40K one was about 75% the cost, pre-painted. And while the infantry was pretty basic quality (but better than any other prepaints I have seen since) the vehicles were amazing, with full decals and sometimes even wear-and-tear.

I would really like to see a visit back to Aarklash, though. It was a fun fantasy world, with samurai goblins, no less!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 17:42:17


Post by: streetsamurai


 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
the switch to the PPP completely killed their sales. It's the main reason why they went bankrupt.


Definitely not, I experienced first hand what happened and AT-43 went quite well. The switch for Confrontation was a bit too fast, but sales for Confro were decreasing already before the switch to plastic or even AT-43.


I won't engage in a session of rewriting history with you. The facts are there for everyone to see. Confrontation sales plummet badly after the switch to PPP. AT-43 is a different beast, since it always was in PPP and a large scale game


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I remember how people on the Rackham forums were clamoring for AT-43 material that Rackham couldn't keep supplied- even the models that were the first released for the game like Fire Toads and Star Troopers for the UNA. It was definitely more of a problem on the company side than noone buying the product.


Yeah, Rakcham went bankrupt cause Confrotation was too popular And even AT-43 sales plummeted after Cnfrontation switch to PPP, cause a lot of customers and even stores had a lot of bad will toward the company.


To be honest, I'm pretty sure that neither of you read french, cause if you did and were following the saga at the time, you wouldn't be making such outlandish claims.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 17:49:56


Post by: Alpharius


A skirmish game AND a board game?

Not sure how I feel about the divided focus right out of the gate, and I'd love more details on both but...

...so far so good.

I mean, at least this is happenig!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 17:54:21


Post by: streetsamurai


Nothing new here, already said it would be the case a few days ago.

Don't think it's necessarly a bad thing. As long as the main focus is on the skirmish game, and the boardgame is seen as more as a sideshow.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 18:03:51


Post by: Alpharius


 streetsamurai wrote:
Nothing new here, already said it would be the case a few days ago.

Don't think it's necessarly a bad thing. As long as the main focus is on the skirmish game, and the boardgame is seen as more as a sideshow.


That there is why it might be a bad thing!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 18:06:12


Post by: streetsamurai


lol. good point


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 18:36:28


Post by: Alpharius


In all honesty, I missed the 'boardgame' announcement a few days back too.

I'm more than happy to have more than one place to use the miniatures though!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 19:41:34


Post by: Riquende


I wasn't concerned when I read about the board game, because I'm expecting it to be an updated Hybrid/Nemesis... which had new models and profile cards for Confrontation.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/11 20:00:57


Post by: AegisGrimm


At the very least, extreme bitterness over the PPP game aside, the rulebook and armybooks for the factions from Age of Ragnorok are now a super cheap source of some fluff on the world. I own all of them and enjoyed reading about each force.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 00:24:07


Post by: Riquende


 AegisGrimm wrote:
extreme bitterness over the PPP game aside


Shall we instead call it disinterest?

Otherwise, I agree. Aarklash is great, and let's all hope whoever is moving the fluff into the post Rag' times does a good job of it. As well as the woeful missteps over material and rules, one of things I hated about Rackham's last days was the v3.5 fluff changes, which felt like a massive dumbing down. Devourers, apparently en masse, decided they'd had enough of being part of the Paths of Destiny and moved to the Meanders of Darkness. Before, I'd loved the fact that two 'mortal enemy' factions, Wolfen and Devourers, were actually part of the same broad alignment of views, and the world felt cheapened by the Devourers 'going evil', when their fluff was pretty much that they were entirely true to their nature. Also Tir-Na-Bor going to the Light, when one of their units was an Immortal of Destiny...

I don't know who was calling the shots for the whole v3.5 fiasco, but I hope that both the rules and the fluff evolution of the world is done from a point that predates their... contribution.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 02:32:21


Post by: chaos45


Ehh Devourers always were basically Evil Wolfen so not sure why them officially going to the evil alliance would rub someone wrong in all honesty.

I think many if not most of the regular players expected it as they moved the game forward.

Also cadwallon at he very end becoming more or less the massive mixed neutral faction more than made up for the Devourers moving to darkness.

Looking forward to seeing what they do...not sure I like the idea of a kickstarter though without any prior productt being successfully produced...and from my point of view a relatively unknown producer.

To many grand idea kickstarters have fallen flat due to poor delivery from new or in-experienced firms....So Im in hard core wait and see mode---I wont back a kickstarter i highly doubt. The designers need to cough up some of their own capital to prove they have some skin in the game. If they produce something decent I'm sure it will sell but Im not buying ideas of artwork, and ideas of rules they want to have financed so they can then actually figure out how to make work or figure out how to be a business.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 15:03:25


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Alpharius wrote:
A skirmish game AND a board game?

Not sure how I feel about the divided focus right out of the gate, and I'd love more details on both but...

...so far so good.

I mean, at least this is happenig!


I hope they manage the two better than Dust...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 17:03:24


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


So, does this mean they will be manufacturing plastics for the board game and metals for the skirmish game? They can't expect a boardgame with metal minis to sell well, and they can't sell plastics to the skirmishers without setting off the frothing fanboys.


I'm also curious how well the range will sell considering how diluted the Rakham talent pool has become with the best sculptors working for different companies now and several extant ranges duplicating the style that used to be Confrontation's artistic draw. When customers can buy dozens of resins, restics, or even good quality boardgame pieces with the same design aesthetic, will they still want to spend enough on these new metals to keep the company in business?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 17:22:07


Post by: Alpharius


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
...and they can't sell plastics to the skirmishers without setting off the frothing fanboys.


Not sure that part's actually true - it would all depend on what kind of plastic, the sculpts, and whether or not they're pre-painted, I'd think.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 17:53:52


Post by: streetsamurai


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:



I'm also curious how well the range will sell considering how diluted the Rakham talent pool has become with the best sculptors working for different companies now and several extant ranges duplicating the style that used to be Confrontation's artistic draw. When customers can buy dozens of resins, restics, or even good quality boardgame pieces with the same design aesthetic, will they still want to spend enough on these new metals to keep the company in business?



King of agree with you. And also. at the time, GW plastics were far from being as good as they are now, so that was one of the big appeal of Confrontation.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 18:24:07


Post by: Alpharius


Bring back Confrontation as a 'true' skirmish game with high quality sculpts?

Yes, there will absolutely be a big enough customer base to keep them in business and successful!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 19:18:31


Post by: NAVARRO


 Alpharius wrote:
Bring back Confrontation as a 'true' skirmish game with high quality sculpts?

Yes, there will absolutely be a big enough customer base to keep them in business and successful!


Its a bit more competitive these days then it was back then. As much as positive anyone can be its going to take more than just the good old Confrontation heritage to make this a profitable project.

Crossing fingers they pull it off.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 19:29:26


Post by: .Mikes.


 NAVARRO wrote:
Its a bit more competitive these days then it was back then.


The same could be said of bringing Blood Bowl back. Pedigree counts for a lot.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 19:46:09


Post by: Alpharius


Right!

Pedigree + good rules + great sculpts will = win!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 20:32:40


Post by: plastictrees


 .Mikes. wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Its a bit more competitive these days then it was back then.


The same could be said of bringing Blood Bowl back. Pedigree counts for a lot.


For the models and the art, sure. Personally I never found the game to be that amazing. It always seemed to end in a mosh pit in the middle of the board, and lacked the push/pull mechanics that gives Warmachine a lot of options scenario wise
There are several companies and individuals producing awesome painting/collecting pieces, and several more established skirmish games in existence.
There's certainly still room, but I think they've missed the relatively easy window that was open a few years ago. I'd be looking forward to using my Drunes again...which is a problem for them if all I'm doing is buying a rulebook.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 20:40:12


Post by: Theophony


 Alpharius wrote:
Right!

Pedigree + good rules + great sculpts will = win!


Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price . Will await anxiously. Either way if it's great rules but bad pricing I'll grab it at a discount through Miniaturemarket. If good/reasonable price I'll grab in a heartbeat.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 20:47:48


Post by: NAVARRO


 .Mikes. wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Its a bit more competitive these days then it was back then.


The same could be said of bringing Blood Bowl back. Pedigree counts for a lot.


I agree to an extent, I mean BB never really stopped/died and was always backed by a huge fanbase.
But yes I do hope they manage to brig it back from the ashes.

Price range will be important for it to kick off.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 22:36:54


Post by: Alpharius


 Theophony wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Right!

Pedigree + good rules + great sculpts will = win!


Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price . Will await anxiously. Either way if it's great rules but bad pricing I'll grab it at a discount through Miniaturemarket. If good/reasonable price I'll grab in a heartbeat.


I'm not sure if this one will make it all the way to Online Discount Retail though?

Maybe?

I mean, hopefully, of course.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/12 23:46:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Speaking of Rackham properties, who owns AT-43 these days?

 Theophony wrote:
Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price


Something like this, you mean? That would be a shame.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 01:15:02


Post by: Theophony


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Speaking of Rackham properties, who owns AT-43 these days?

 Theophony wrote:
Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price


Something like this, you mean? That would be a shame.


well hats the south of the equator tax, here in the northern (regular folk who are not worried about drop bears ) hemisphere we gobble that item up for about half the price.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 02:21:16


Post by: Mathieu Raymond


They could create a set of objectives à la Malifaux to keep the game from devolving into the mosh pit in the middle of the board.

Plastic (not prepainted) has made real leaps and bounds if you have the right talent to design it. It could be a mix of GW style clampack for named heroes and boxes of a few different sculpts for the nonnac reddof that most of your list is. Except Wolfens, just big, beautiful, intricate resin sculpts for those babies...

If I can just get my grubby hands on more Selsyms... that's all I want. Those out of phase mages and the Echahims were just gorgeous gorgeous sculpts.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 03:35:05


Post by: ced1106


 streetsamurai wrote:
King of agree with you. And also. at the time, GW plastics were far from being as good as they are now, so that was one of the big appeal of Confrontation.


Speaking of GW, they released Space Hulk and Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower, which were well-received by BGG, although their other boardgames came and went. So, the Confrontation boardgame could use some of the same plastic sculpts as in the miniatures game. This would amortize the cost of the molds and hopefully tap into an audience that normally does not look into miniature games. Of course, if the game isn't any good, this would just dilute their resources.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 05:07:30


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Alpharius wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Right!

Pedigree + good rules + great sculpts will = win!


Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price . Will await anxiously. Either way if it's great rules but bad pricing I'll grab it at a discount through Miniaturemarket. If good/reasonable price I'll grab in a heartbeat.


I'm not sure if this one will make it all the way to Online Discount Retail though?

Maybe?

I mean, hopefully, of course.


How could it possibly be a success if it is never sold through mainstream retailers?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 05:14:23


Post by: streetsamurai


I doubt that they have the ressources to make real plastic minis. Pretty sure it will be resins.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 07:18:38


Post by: Duncan_Idaho


Confrontation sales were already slow when they switched to plastics, the system had become just to big to handle, just keep in mind how many cards they had and how complicated it was to balance them all. At best plastic speed it up a little, but not by much.

The sales plummeted mainly because the company that bought them had not intention of keeping them in business fora longer time. They just needed the money that came with the newly restructured Rackham to cover up their own financial problems. The case ist still in courts in France and probably will be never fully resolved. They couldn´t deliver products that already had been produced and waited in warehouses, because the mother company did not pay the factories and this way warehouses full of Rackham-stuff waited for payment that never came. Rackham staff was told to order stuff, while at the soame time the mother company were plundering the chests.

BTW, I was working for them at that time and you will find my name all over the German edition, so I know first habd what happened and also how the german distributor which had a fraudulant past that came to light only later screwed them over. When Rackham had a problem then the one that they were not always wise when choosing their partners. The really messed that part up quite some times.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 12:42:05


Post by: bubber


Personally I didn't like the CC rules. I played Devourers & liked big characters but found that I'd go into CC against some regular swordsmen & get poked to death :(.
I did enter one tournament (the only tournament of any wargame I've ever entered) & came 2nd to last. 'At least you didn't come last', I hear you say but the fella that did come last got a custom carved wooden spoon, a foam tray & the option to fill that tray with a new army!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 16:36:29


Post by: Alpharius


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Right!

Pedigree + good rules + great sculpts will = win!


Unless the whole equation is Pedigree+ good rules + great sculpts + ridiculous price . Will await anxiously. Either way if it's great rules but bad pricing I'll grab it at a discount through Miniaturemarket. If good/reasonable price I'll grab in a heartbeat.


I'm not sure if this one will make it all the way to Online Discount Retail though?

Maybe?

I mean, hopefully, of course.


How could it possibly be a success if it is never sold through mainstream retailers?


Because there are different ways to measure success?

I mean, look at how Kingdom Death started out, right?

Or maybe a better example would be Corvus Belli?

Start slow, get some wins under your belt, grow cautiously...


...success?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 16:54:03


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Infinity started out as a direct order product? Was that back in the days when there wasn't a lot of competition for skirmish scale wargames? I know I've seen Infinity stuff in the FLGS for years and years. I guess when I think direct only, I think MEdge or Prodos Space Crusade.

Kingdom Death is a good point, though.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 18:10:25


Post by: Alpharius


Bloody hell Bob - instead of asking for stuff just so you can knock it down, just imagine that they're aiming to start slow, and build from there?

Kingdom Death?

Dark Age - Now with CMON, and still having trouble being picked up by distributors, especially outside of the USA, but still doing well enough to be considered - perhaps - moderately successful?

I mean, I have NO idea what they're planning on doing, but I certainly hope it is something similar, game and model content-wise, to the Confrontation of old - but with better balance and the same great miniatures.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 18:21:11


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


This really feels like they're going to have an uphill fight to make this a success. The game died years ago, and most of the buzz seems to be from people who already have minis. This is compounded by the clearance sales that took place - I think I ended up with a 5 gallon tote full of box sets/blisters I bought 75-90% off. Various parties claim ownership, including one recaster (I think) that owns some original molds but who has been making new sculpts based on concepts. A number of the figures look pretty dated (Lions, Griffons and Kelts IMO), so maybe they could resell updated sculpts to existing fans, but that seems like a niche within a niche within a niche.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/13 18:30:00


Post by: Alpharius


You may be right - especially in terms of 'who owns what' and all of that fun stuff!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/14 06:52:31


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Alpharius wrote:
Bloody hell Bob - instead of asking for stuff just so you can knock it down, just imagine that they're aiming to start slow, and build from there?

Kingdom Death?

Dark Age - Now with CMON, and still having trouble being picked up by distributors, especially outside of the USA, but still doing well enough to be considered - perhaps - moderately successful?

I mean, I have NO idea what they're planning on doing, but I certainly hope it is something similar, game and model content-wise, to the Confrontation of old - but with better balance and the same great miniatures.


Ok. If they start slow and build up, great. I wish them success. I really hope they do the existing fanbase proud instead of cashing in on them.

Unfortunately, I can't help but assume they're going for the latter since they bought the big name IP. As we've seen, the companies that have succeeded with the long, slow build up of success have tended to use their own IP to set their own expectations.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/14 08:18:18


Post by: grefven


Don't forget that some of the absolute best miniature sculptors around today worked with Confrontation back in the days, and it was in fact Confrontation that paved their road. I am confident in believing that many of these sculptors would love to work with this range again, and if this is the case, we can expect the highest quality in miniatures that will be humanly possible. That will have to count for something, at least, in making this a success, albeit maybe not a smashing success of bringing in millions in funds the first few months.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/14 14:35:53


Post by: Alpharius


Provided that they can pay these sculptors, I'm sure that they'll gladly work for them on the line again!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/14 19:59:34


Post by: chaos45


Most the sculptors have moved on to other lines or endeavors.

Again watching and waiting. Would love to see the game re-done with a rules update. It had its issues but was my favorite game for a very long time....and really still is, they just went out of business.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/14 20:59:02


Post by: overtyrant


Bushido by GCT studios uses a combat system like confrontation and it's a fantastic game. I'm hoping they stick close to that.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 07:14:40


Post by: Atreju


Some infos, gossip and assumptions about Resurrection from the french CORD forum:

• The driving force behind this are Olivier and Loic. See https://www.facebook.com/epictwinminis/posts/ for more infos and videos (all french).
SD opened on Raiziers the possibility for financial aid. This is not like a kickstarter, more like stocks, as far as I get it, and the minimum is 1.000,-€.

www.sans-detour.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Sans-Detour_ouvre_son_capital.pdf

• Resurrection will be the Skirmisher, but there will also be Boardgames in the world of Confrontation. The boardgame miniatures will be compatible to the skirmisher.
• There will be new exclusive models and revisioned old models (the classic line). For the boardgames, it will most likely be plastic, for the classic line Resin. Nothing set yet about the material for Resurrection, the community will be confronted with it.
• Base-size and -shape won't matter for the game. The first designs of the pre-structured bases will be shown soon.
• The rules will be more contemporary and the stats revised. Therefore, it will be either new versions of old models (see the classic line above) or new profiles.
• The boardgames shall be quick and easy. You play a group of heroes and it will be compatible to Ressurection. They also think about a new Hybrid version.
• All of the design team are old Confrontation fans who really care for the project.
• The are contacting and making contracts with other designers and sculpters. There is no direct contact with Cmon or Rackham, but some (former) members already have been contacted or offered help
• Cyanide sold all the rights, except for Computer games. They support the project.
• There will be close contact with the french and italian CORD, their rulesets are supported by SD and could be used in the future as well.
• The miniature quality won't be like from the Conan Boardgame.
• They aim for the old aesthetics and miniature quality.
• They get all the old concept art and stocks from Rackham
• Nothing about the actual release date. The announcement is 2017, but if it really will be released this year is another question.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 07:28:27


Post by: .Mikes.


Awesome, thanks for sharing mate. Sounds interesting and promising. But as far as "Nothing set yet about the material for Resurrection, the community will be confronted with it. " goes, do you mean 'consulted' rather than 'confronted'?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 07:39:05


Post by: .Mikes.


Also for anyone interested, here's a Google Translated English version of the sales PDF:

Sans-DETOUR wants to raise 550 000 EUROS on the platform RAIZERS financial Sans-detour editions are leaders on the market of the French role-playing game. Creative and innovative, they have advanced the quality requirements and integrated participatory financing into their business model. They thus brought up major projects of role-playing games: the 7th edition of the call of Cthulhu has lifted 400 K€ on Ulule, while the torments, the lands of the dream and Paranoia 5 brought together nearly 500 K€. Some of these hits are ranked in the TOP 10 of European funding. We want to go further in the game universe: wear role-playing to a new level, reach a broader audience, turn towards international via the games with figurines and recruit new skills to lead our projects.



ACCESS of audiences more important everything first, we are launching three projects to expand our local market: • a box of initiation for the call of CTHULHU, the opening of this flagship public license and novice players will be realized in coedition with the Publisher, Bragelonne (Milady, Pyr, etc.) and will be supported by well-known YouTubers shows. • The return of CONFRONTATION™ a great figures of French origin license. A very large active community awaits the return of this historical range, which will extend our local market while joining the international target. We will continue in parallel to publish, with or without crowdfunding, supplements to our ranges, in particular the call of Cthulhu, and launch new projects: Mu year Zero Mutant, mutant Chronicles, deliverance multitude and especially Conan, hero, acclaimed by the public.


INTERNATIONALIZATION internationalization also responds to the need to reach a larger audience in order to continue to develop our business. Two files are launched to achieve this goal: • Confrontation™ - Resurrection is a game of figures of international reputation. Sans-detour signed this license for a global operations in order to achieve a skirmish game and some Board games with figurines in multi language, for the American and European market. • The blades of the Cardinal in English is a project under discussion. This adaptation of the novels of Pierre Pevel published by Bragelonne is already a huge success in France that we wish to bring Atlantic. Sans-detour team moved several times in the United States in order to meet the market actors (distributors, logisticians, etc.) and facilitate its implementation. In addition, we are already working with foreign service providers in Germany, China, India and the USA.



RECRUITER of new talent Sans-detour has long professionalized its activities and provided its teams training essential to the successful completion of its products (project management, management control, etc.). In order to achieve these objectives and follow its strategy, Sans-detour must now develop an additional team specializing in games with figurines (heads of project, sculptors, designers, etc.). This team, composed of top french profile, will be increased by the best independent international to benefit from their experience and offer the finest achievements to a public passionate and many, but very demanding.



Sans-DETOUR opens its CAPITAL to achieve all of these goals and open up the international market, Sans-detour opens its capital to professional or individual investors. This means not a fundraising of 550 K€ on Raizers funding platform. This amount will allow to: • have sufficient financial reserves to conduct all these projects and give them the best chance of success. • Recruit new collaborators around the big Confrontation™ - Resurrection project. Even in the event of successful financing, Sans-detour will continue to implement participatory financing, for some of its projects, with expertise that is now hers.



HOW TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ADVENTURE? Raizers team is very demanding about the selection of business records. Sans-detour has passed the various stages of this selection, proof of his good health financial (the company has always been beneficiary) and visibility on its markets. In order to fully inform investors, financial data of Sans-detour are available on the page of presentation of the project. All details about the regulatory aspects of such operations are available on the official website of Raizers. TO subscribe:-Connect to the platform Raizers. -Enter your details (legal obligation of banking regulations). -See the data, watch the video, reinforce your decision and... - indicate the amount of your investment. BY participating in this fundraiser:-you become a shareholder of Sans-detour (you receive dividends and value your titles on the growth of the company). -You also participate in the project on the international market, for the role play and the figurine. In addition, Raizers site very precisely informs you about any tax reductions to which you are entitled with these investments in a company.



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 12:02:34


Post by: devilution


They are looking for serious investors:

https://www.raizers.com/index.php?page=deals-presentation&id=205

You can create a free account to check it out, but it's 1000Euro minimum investment and it's not your typical crowd funding...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 17:32:36


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Edit: removed my first reply.


I suspect $1000 spent on Kingdom Death would have a better return.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 19:12:18


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


Yeah, this sounds like a complete pipedream by some fans. What exactly did they buy from Cyanide? The right to try and compete with Cadwallon? They havent heard from CMON, who also bought the right to sell overpriced resin recasts of figures cheaply available on ebay. And umm... sorry guys, but they should be so lucky as to have boardgame figures as good as Conan's with no experience behind them. I'm unclear how base size wont matter... strikes me as an attempt to hang on to a small existing fanbase rather than grow. And those fans arent buying new minis...
There is a lot of talk about making contacts, which strikes me as "we sent some emails, but no one responded".

My brother in law follows the various City of Heroes resurrection attempts, and this sounds about as likely to materialize. Good luck, they're gonna need it.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/20 21:23:47


Post by: streetsamurai


Hmm that doesn't seem really serious, unfortunately :/


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/21 02:01:21


Post by: Jehan-reznor


That they don't go the crowdfunding route is in the least peculiar.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/02/21 12:00:24


Post by: Atreju


@.Mikes.: Yeah, confronted with the decision to make, so you're right, it's rather a consultation.

@Boss_Hosk: As it was explained a few pages ago, Cyanide gave the licence to Cmon, but now they gave it to SD. Regarding Cadwallon.com, there is no decision made yet. But as they are in contact with the italian Cord who made Confrontation: Evolution and they work together with Legendarion a.k.a. Cadwallon.com, there might be a solution for this.
The base size question is abouts the indifference of round or square bases. This difference should not matter. What this means? I don't know, but there will be more information as it develops.
And about "making contact": They already have some under contract and are in contact (notice: are in contact, not making contact) with more. Some of the old Rackham team actually contacted them when they heard the news and offered their help.




Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/27 22:42:47


Post by: .Mikes.


Update:

As we announced previously we have been looking into the question of bases for Confrontation resurrection: square, round, textured, smooth, every detail counts!
So, here's a sneak peek at the future bases for the range: round and textured as it's a more practical form that's easier to manipulate and decorate.
Rules wise, rest assured that we'll be making sure that the old square bases are perfectly compatible with the new system. For us a base is simply to ensure that the models stay upright on the table. Nothing more, nothing less so you won't need to revise your old models if you don't want to!




Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/28 02:54:04


Post by: Sining


So...how are you going to measure distance? From the bases, which are different or the horrible method of measuring from model?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/28 03:26:50


Post by: .Mikes.


And that, boys and girls, is why no game that uses round bases has ever become popular.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/28 05:19:38


Post by: Sining


It's more the fact that they're allowing square and round bases in the same system


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/28 08:42:40


Post by: AndrewGPaul


measure from centre of base to centre of base. Which generally becomes, in practise, measuring from the model's head or another obvious protrusion, because it's easier to see. Give models a melee range (like AoS or WM), job's a good 'un.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/03/28 16:19:21


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
measure from centre of base to centre of base. Which generally becomes, in practise, measuring from the model's head or another obvious protrusion, because it's easier to see. Give models a melee range (like AoS or WM), job's a good 'un.


That's just sloppy rule design all around though. Better to have consistent, thought out base rules, since it also impacts things like effect areas and LOS. Unless they're going with TLOS, in which case, feth it, let an 8 year old write the rules.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/06 22:58:56


Post by: .Mikes.


From their FB page (translated by Google):

Every week we offer you an interview of one of those who have done Confrontation.
Today we meet Nicolas Raoult, aka Magnus Nico.
1 - Can you introduce yourself?
I have been an author for seventeen years. I worked for Rackham for ten years until it closed, and then I became independent. I worked on video games, serious games, then board games. I saw this activity.
2 - On which project (s) did you collaborate with Rackham?
All, from Confrontation 2. This includes the Confrontation, AT-43, Hybrid and Rush'N Crush editions 2, 3, 3.5 and 4. When Rackham became Rackham Entertainment, we expanded our exploration fields with games for a younger audience. Unfortunately, none of them appeared.
3 - What do you remember, positive and / or negative, of this experience?
On the positive side, the impression of having participated in the discovery and development of the board game with a generation of players. I also met people of trust, talented people. Some are still working in the entertainment industry or in the art world. The links remained strong despite the years.
On the negative side, I saw many of these talented people being harassed and demolished by fire, before being evacuated through the door. This mentality, however, changed when the company became Rackham Entertainment.
4 - Do you have an anecdote of this time for the community of figurines?
The first concepts designed for the Griffon cavalry showed Templars riding over griffin and ostrich hybrids. Chocobos, in short. We were not used to saying anything when the concepts arrived on our desks, but before my wide eyes, my management asked me what was going on. I replied frankly. I should not have.
Well, if, when I see what was finally done, maybe it was worth it.
5 - Do you have an info of the time never revealed, on an unpublished or a project?
We had started working on an additional army for AT-43, the Krygs. They were extraterrestrials, with a mentality comparable to that of the Predators of the Hollywood movies. The management wished to accompany them with light armored vehicles controlled by bimbos.
6 - Do you have any advice on the future range of Confrontation Resurrection?
Beware of the impact of the size of the bases on the characteristics of the fighters. The square infantry bases could accommodate up to four opponents. The creature bases, up to eight. It changes everything.
As for the scale of figures itself, no, I have no advice to give you. You know your audience, some of you are even former players. This game belongs to you now.
7 - What is your vision of an ideal miniature game today?
A game in tune with the intended audience. If I am the target audience, then this is a skirmish game where I can play without complex, glue-free assembly, with plastic figurines, and with a set up less than ten minutes.
8 - What has been your journey since the end of Rackham? Your latest achievements?
I became an independent author. I worked on two serious games for Danone and L'Oréal, and on the video game Confrontation. I wrote universe texts for Alkemy, Drakerys or Eden. I joined Guillotine Games to create Zombicide, then Massive Darkness.
9 - What games do you practice?
I play and test three to eight times a week. These are essentially prototypes, or games of which I am author / co-author, and of which I assure a part of the development. Apart from my professional activities, I sometimes get out of the lesser-known games that I can play alone, very late at night. With family or friends, I take aperitif games. I do not like the fathers playing on one side while the mothers take care of the children on the other. We play together, it's so much cooler.
Thanks see you soon !



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 01:18:52


Post by: plastictrees


What's a 'serious game'?

Are there any rumors about the game actually getting off the ground?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 02:58:47


Post by: .Mikes.


I'm assuming it's a direct translation from French. You'd need a native Francophile for a more colloquial translation.

As for any other sign - well, there's this. This was the last update since the previous one I posted here about bases from March. They're after priviate funding rather than kickstarter, so it's not unusual there's no word, but it would be nice to hear more. That this came up is a sign there're some cogs whirring at least.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 06:41:01


Post by: fresus


Overall the google translation is pretty decent.

plastictrees wrote:What's a 'serious game'??

In the french version, the guy actually says "serious games", in english. I've never heard the term, but I'm not that familiar with board games, so maybe it actually means something specific that I don't know.
He even uses the term again when answering to question 8.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 07:36:01


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I wonder if it means tournament style (eg warmachine) rather than the looser/more narrative/worse rules sort (eg 40K)


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 07:38:47


Post by: plastictrees


He references Danone and L'Oreal, so maybe it's sarcasm?



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 09:22:30


Post by: Rakoun


From Wikipedia
A serious game or applied game is a game designed for a primary purpose other than pure entertainment.[1] The "serious" adjective is generally prepended to refer to video games used by industries like defense, education, scientific exploration, health care, emergency management, city planning, engineering, and politics.[2] The idea shares aspects with simulation generally, including flight simulation and medical simulation, but explicitly emphasizes the added pedagogical value of fun and competitin.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 11:57:13


Post by: .Mikes.


Well they said this was a 'weekly' thing, so maybe we'll have chance to ask next week.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/06/07 11:59:57


Post by: grefven


I don't see this gaining any momentum at all if they keep insisting to only cater to the french community. They need to get someone who knows English. It's not that difficult in 2017.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/11 23:48:57


Post by: .Mikes.


After a bit of a lull the facebook page has had some actviity int he last few months, including a competition to win some of the original Confrontation studio miniatures, and now an instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/confminiatures/.

I remain cautiously excited.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/12 22:14:20


Post by: .Mikes.


The first image:



"Thousands of confrontation concepts to study


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 05:07:03


Post by: youwashock


Eyebrows up. Perhaps it is time.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 06:38:29


Post by: Riquende


As far as I can make out, the folders from left to right are: Goblins, 'Tree-spirit?', Daikinee, Cadwallon, Concord of the Eagle, Devourers, Acheron, Drunes, Mid-Nor, Tir-Na-Bor, Cynwall, Sessairs, Griffons, Lions

Assuming Tree-spirit is Orcs then that leaves Wolfen and Dirz not there. And Ophidians.

Oh, and Akkyshan, not that they were ever any models. And the Utopia of the Sphinx, same.

Is it just me or did Confrontation have far too many factions at the end?





Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 11:14:30


Post by: .Mikes.


You think they'd want to capitalise on the existing player base, so if I were to guess I'd say all the original factions would be included, but maybe some are rolled together. The Dainenee and Wolfen were closely aligned, so maybe they begind\ in one faction, then split up later when the game has expanded? Just a thought. but yeah, loadsa factions.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 13:07:42


Post by: Alpharius


No Dirz would be...ridiculous!!!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 15:25:30


Post by: His Master's Voice


Abandoning the most visually distinct part of the IP would indeed be ridiculous. Dirz, Mid-Nor and Wolfen were what distinguished Confrontation from Generic Fantasy Setting Number Seventeen.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 16:20:31


Post by: silent25


 His Master's Voice wrote:
Abandoning the most visually distinct part of the IP would indeed be ridiculous. Dirz, Mid-Nor and Wolfen were what distinguished Confrontation from Generic Fantasy Setting Number Seventeen.


Sadly I can see Wolfen be left out because of Wrath of Kings, but Driz and Mid-Nor don't really have equivalents across CMON's other lines. Mid-Nor was one of my favorite lines and the Abyssal Court remains one of those grail miniature sets I would love to find and own.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 18:07:10


Post by: Alpharius


Same here!

Mid-Nor and absolutely DIRZ!

I did love the Devourers too.

And the Dwarves. Especially the Bronze stuff...

And...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 19:30:29


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I didn't pick them up at the time, but I wish I'd grabbed the goblin pirates clan box and the undead king on his throne.

And some of the plastic mounted Griffin Templars, but that's perhaps a little off-topic for this thread.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/13 22:29:53


Post by: .Mikes.


That shelf *is* full. Nothing to say there isn't another somewhere esle for overflow.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/14 13:29:55


Post by: Alpharius


Yes, of course, but still quite odd to leave DIRZ out of the first pic...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/14 23:08:44


Post by: .Mikes.


 silent25 wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
Abandoning the most visually distinct part of the IP would indeed be ridiculous. Dirz, Mid-Nor and Wolfen were what distinguished Confrontation from Generic Fantasy Setting Number Seventeen.


Sadly I can see Wolfen be left out because of Wrath of Kings


Given the Wolfen are front and centre on their promotional image, it could just be the folder was elsewhere.



They're also running some polls on their FB page at the moment asking which characters people would like to see in the new version. The current rounds are Lions and Acheron, but they ran with this image, which I think ticks off all the previous factions:



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/14 23:50:38


Post by: silent25


 .Mikes. wrote:
 silent25 wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
Abandoning the most visually distinct part of the IP would indeed be ridiculous. Dirz, Mid-Nor and Wolfen were what distinguished Confrontation from Generic Fantasy Setting Number Seventeen.


Sadly I can see Wolfen be left out because of Wrath of Kings


Given the Wolfen are front and centre on their promotional image, it could just be the folder was elsewhere.

Spoiler:


They're also running some polls on their FB page at the moment asking which characters people would like to see in the new version. The current rounds are Lions and Acheron, but they ran with this image, which I think ticks off all the previous factions:
Spoiler:



Nevermind.gif

That's good. Now just worried about prices and availability.

*edit*
And material!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/15 01:45:34


Post by: .Mikes.


Ditto. I'm hoping they plan to capitalise on the unique situation of having a fanbase ready to go.

Anyhoo, I saw they also post the above image on the FB page, and they confirmed the Dirz and Mid-Nor folders existed, so that's good news.

I now need to paint all these Griffin models I have so when they release the rules I can get some games going.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/15 13:23:59


Post by: Alpharius


Scorpion sighting!

*whew!*



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/15 23:30:31


Post by: .Mikes.


This week poll chopice for characters is for the Wolfen and the Devourers.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/16 00:29:33


Post by: plastictrees


Is there any indication that anything is actually moving towards a release of a game here?
We've known their are piles of concept art for years, and seen the reuse of iconography and vague polls before.
Has anyone seen or heard anything to suggest that something is actually going to happen any time soon.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/16 00:44:24


Post by: Alpharius


And can someone remind me again why this group is able to make these games/thinks they are able to make these games?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 02:17:28


Post by: .Mikes.


 plastictrees wrote:
Is there any indication that anything is actually moving towards a release of a game here?
We've known their are piles of concept art for years, and seen the reuse of iconography and vague polls before.
Has anyone seen or heard anything to suggest that something is actually going to happen any time soon.


Someone else found their pitch for funding (which I think I linked earlier), but other than that they ahve the IP and access to people who worked on earlier confrontation there's no guarantee this will see fruition. But that could also be said of any mini's project.

However, they're an established company with a good rep for solid RPGs and ahve been steadily, if at long intervals, releasing info. If they didn't have the will and the means I don't see a company risking reputation on a dead project.

I am an optimist, however, so take that as you will.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 06:13:48


Post by: thekingofkings


I so hope this happens, I love every version of Confrontation even the plastics!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 08:29:56


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Alpharius wrote:
And can someone remind me again why this group is able to make these games/thinks they are able to make these games?


The folder labels being in French suggests they've got some of the original design team involved, so it's not just CMON doing this. Still, I'm not holding my breath. The last time CMON tried to relaunch Confrontation, we got half a dozen miniatures on limited release with the prices jacked sky-high as "collectors" pieces. That didn't leave me with any warm feelings towards them


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 12:01:44


Post by: Theophony


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
And can someone remind me again why this group is able to make these games/thinks they are able to make these games?


The folder labels being in French suggests they've got some of the original design team involved, so it's not just CMON doing this. Still, I'm not holding my breath. The last time CMON tried to relaunch Confrontation, we got half a dozen miniatures on limited release with the prices jacked sky-high as "collectors" pieces. That didn't leave me with any warm feelings towards them


Well they have those on their Christmas close out sale right now.
https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=Confrontation&x=0&y=0&cat=


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 13:19:26


Post by: bubber


 Theophony wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
And can someone remind me again why this group is able to make these games/thinks they are able to make these games?


The folder labels being in French suggests they've got some of the original design team involved, so it's not just CMON doing this. Still, I'm not holding my breath. The last time CMON tried to relaunch Confrontation, we got half a dozen miniatures on limited release with the prices jacked sky-high as "collectors" pieces. That didn't leave me with any warm feelings towards them


Well they have those on their Christmas close out sale right now.
https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=Confrontation&x=0&y=0&cat=


Thanks - you just made me spend $67 inc P&P on the Titan Dragon!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/17 15:21:42


Post by: Mr Morden


I first bought into Confrontation because of the Devourers - never seen anything like them in 28mm - loved their rules and the models.

Yeah these are giant Wolves, yep that's full plate armour, yep that's a giant bow.

Still use them occasionally in other games.

Bought Wrath of Kings because it had "not Devourers".

Looking forward to seeing what comes up here.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 01:45:52


Post by: .Mikes.


I found this thread on a French Confrontation forum. It's pretty interesting, and seems some of the posters are closer to the cmmunity and San Detours then in the English speaking communities, and also a member of SD posting directly. I've been going through it with the help of my poor French and Google Translate and have found a few titbits I think I missed before.

This is from March and was a release directed from SD to various established Confrontation communities ot answer expected FAQs Pasted form Translate, so the bad translation is Google's fault, not mine):

- SD holds all the rights on Confrontation and the associated brands, except for the video rights.

- Then three things: a part of the old range will be available as "Confrontation Classic", a game of skirmish Confrontation Resurrection with a more modern mechanics will see the day and board games accessible / all public also (with figurines compatible with the skirmish game.)

- More info in a few months, with releases early next year.

- The classic and resurrection figs should be resin and figs plastic board games. Both usable in "cross-over".

- No prepainted. Especially because it's not the demand of the community.


- The goal is to spread the game worldwide. For now the release is French and English but Italian, German and Spanish are being negotiated!

- Next show where it will be possible to meet the team: Trolls & Legends in April. Loïc and Olivier will be present.

- We begin to attack the interesting points. Crowdfunding is not an "obligation" at all. They have the experience and it is likely that it is used for some products but really not for all. We immediately think of the classic range that will highlight the sculptures dear to the heart of the community. It is a tool with its advantages and its faults. It would be foolish to deprive ourselves of it as it would be foolish to swear by crownfunding.

- First information on the game system, there will be no resolution table, more adapted to modern mechanics.

- Two things that are not exclusive: He wants to offer players the opportunity to play with their old figures in the new set of rules by proposing a backward compatibility. Or at least, to allow players to play with the new figures in the set of rules that they like the most.

- The base will not be "important" ... just a support for the fig ... we had already heard that, I still do not know what it means in the facts.

- Confrontation Resurrection will have its own range of textured pedestals. [u] One can expect visuals very quickly !!! [/ u]

- Confrontation classic will not be just unique draws to the Legacy but a whole range!

- The board games are more casual (simple and dynamic), a gateway to the skirmish.


And this followed with:

- More info in a few months, with releases early next year .

- The classic and resurrection figs should be resin and figs plastic board games.

- No prepainted. Especially because it's not the demand of the community.

- The goal is to spread the game worldwide. For now the release is French and English ...

- Next show where it will be possible to meet the team: Trolls & Legends in April. Loïc and Olivier will be present.

- The crowdfunding is not at all "an obligation" ...

- First information on the game system, there will be no resolution table, more adapted to modern mechanics.

- Confrontation classic will not be just unique draws to the Legacy but a whole range!


Someone spoke to Loic Muxy (I believe he works at SD) at a Confrontation event in France and asked some questions and got the following answers:

- Exit the metal, the choice of the plastic seems to have been recorded. (which, considering the quality of some current plastic ranges does not seem to be a problem)

- A double rule system: the new one, for which the cards of ALL the old figs will be updated - because they will be well all playable. And a conversion of new figs into cards 3.5 wanted by Loïc as a bonus

- We'll be on skirmish, and only skirmish. The Ragnarok is over, it has taken place, it is the brothel everywhere; the world is in ruins and the great nations are crumbling or have fallen (The lion is worried to be done - especially since it is one of the only armies that Loïc did not collect ...) Result: small commitments because no one has the power to engage in major battles.

- A recomposition of the factions: all will still be present but some will be gathered, some will know a schism (Wolfen, Griffon, Dirz), some will change fundamentally (Destiny will suffer - Goblins have all fled beyond the oceans?) . But as all the old figs will remain playable, no straight cut as in V4,

- A role play envisaged ??? "It already exists, it is Cadwallon" ... RAssurez you, Loïc bursts of laughter, he does not like more the game as it was proposed that me. In short, it kicks in touch, but it seems far from unlikely to see a Game Follow if the game works.


The poster noted Muzy was passionate and animated, and showed a deep knowledge fo Confrontation.

The points about some factions suffering a schism piqued my interest there.

This was posted from another source:

- They will produce a big part of the old figurines (range metal) .The range will be called Classic Confrontation and will not be accompanied by any system of games, you will have the right to take the one that you want (Conf 3.5, 2, 1, Fédé, EVO, etc)

- They will produce a new unpublished range, Confrontation Resurrection, with a fluff post Ragnarok, skirmish game, powered by a brand new engine (which one does not know anything) with an update for compatibility of the Classic range with this system

- They will produce new board games (so nothing to do with Hybrid)

- The material for the figures is for the moment not officially stopped, it will certainly be resin or plastic or mixed

- They teased the community to see the returns, for now there will be nothing concrete for a year, in 2017 we will have just a few ads once the choices (materials, rules, schedule) will be stopped

- They want to play hard with the community so sensitive to the returns on the confederation





Automatically Appended Next Post:
From another post (in April):

I had the opportunity to speak with the team at the troll and legends festival.
To summarize, all the armies will be present, but with a lot of upheavals. New armies will be there too, like the sphinxes and the akkyshans. They have undisclosed artworks to date. The game will take time before going out because everything is under construction. If I remember correctly, not before 1 year ... 18 months.
Everything that has been officially done level background, will not be removed even with regard to CADR.They want continuity and not questioning what has been done before. So I rested my question ... and the mid nor the drunes .... they will be present ... differently but present.
The figures will be plastic, but high quality, will have to be mounted ... as we did with those metal.
There will be the reissue of the old figurines ... except Kyrus.
The figures for the board games will be of identical quality as those for Resurrection.
If I understand correctly, they will sell the figurines in box format and not blister.

They have contacted beautiful people at the level of artists, and we already have some names of course.
From what I understand, everything will be turned upside down after the Rag'narok. So we must expect everything .... And the wolfen artwork shows it well.
As for cadwallon.com ... he contacted them explaining that he had no rights to the license ....

So no worries the machine is running, will just have to be patient. I made it clear that we would like to have news from time to time. I did not have secret info, because I think they do not prefer to announce something that is not yet built, and which can be changed.


"As for cadwallon.com ... he contacted them explaining that he had no rights to the license ..." Yeah, good luck with that. Although someone contacted SD drectly and posted this on the subject:

The case of Cadwallon.com however remains more complicated, since it is clearly a major encroachment on the Confrontation license they bought back. He was asked to be careful & discreet about it, that's why I preferred to suspend sine die, all work in progress & future based on their work. The profiles already created in the months / years preceding the redemption of the license are not concerned & do not pose any problem, even if we can try to replace them with figs of other ranges if the opportunity arises.
Note that SD is in contact with Cadwallon.com. Depending on their discussions, SD positions may or may not evolve in a positive direction or not.


But 1 year to 18 month dev and release ccyle puts it to early int he new year to mid 2018, barring blowouts.

From the person who spoke to Muzy: "I add that Loïc's first mission will be to give life to the Akkyshans, he told me. And they got a good half of Rackham's projected Artworks - and Loïc was very happy to see it fit in with what they already had in mind."

So it sounds like we're losing ninja Goblins, but picking up S&M Elves.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
From October, someone noted in an interview on the Revo facebook page:


"What I can already announce to you is that we have planned to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Confrontation!"


Ah, aaaaah, an event in February 2018 ?????


Also there was talk in July of some prominent players from Belgium being approached to take part in a beta test, but nothing firm,

(And yes, in case you're wondering, it is a slow day for me )

From November:


Some information gleaned today on the booth of Sans Détour at the show fantasy:
- A starter box is scheduled for the first quarter of 2018
- The box will contain a priori figs for 4 factions
- The factions of the game will be different from those currently existing
- Pack of cards to play the conf existing figs out then, and the book of the complete rules
- Ophidians would be provided in the first releases of the new range
- The figs will be made in Poland and the molds will be renewed every 30 prints to guarantee quality
- Possibly a beta phase "subscribe to the newsletter without detour to be informed"
- A JDR in the universe of conf is in preparation, more focused jdr and less fig than it was cadwallon
- No info on the price or the passage in crowdfunding or not


And that bring us up to the present day. Don't say I don't do anything for you guys.




Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 04:46:08


Post by: Monkeysloth


Hope we don't loose the Asian Goblins as the Goblins were my favorite line.

Also hope something comes of the Cawallon.com stuff, their existence pretty much kills any reason for SD do to classic. Coming to some licensing agreement would be a great way to handle it as you're never going to get them to go away.

Also sad to hear they don't have any plans for the RPG. It's a great system but really, really poorly written. They re-wrote it in French but we never got the English translation. Maybe if the skirmish game got popular enough they'd be willing to license it out to a 3rd party.

Also I hope they give their English Translators more time. One of theirs used to hang out on a forum I use to visit and the deadlines where crazy short, like 2 days for a whole book.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 05:11:38


Post by: .Mikes.


Well the lack of Goblins was more an inference from the person asking the questions. Given the shake up of factions it would be odd if they didn't at leats include them as a sub faction somewhere.

Ditto, given their current business is RPGs I'd be surprised if they don't follow through with a Cadwallon RPG if Confrontation takes off. Makes sense they wouldn't commit to one now without knowing how well the core game will go.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 09:16:03


Post by: fresus


Thanks for the info Mikes. Can you also provide a link to the post in question please?
And if you guys find something that seems important, I'd be happy to translate it from French.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 11:30:58


Post by: .Mikes.


Ah sorry, I thought I'd posted the link. Here it is: http://confrontation.vraiforum.com/t3515-Confrontation-r-surrection.htm?start=345

And thank you for the offer. Direct translation is often dodgy.

I signed up to the forum to keep abrest of updates, and also the San Detour newsletter,so I'll post them here as and when, and I will ask for translation for anything difficult, thank you!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 13:50:03


Post by: Samko


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Hope we don't loose the Asian Goblins as the Goblins were my favorite line.

Also hope something comes of the Cawallon.com stuff, their existence pretty much kills any reason for SD do to classic. Coming to some licensing agreement would be a great way to handle it as you're never going to get them to go away.

Also sad to hear they don't have any plans for the RPG. It's a great system but really, really poorly written. They re-wrote it in French but we never got the English translation. Maybe if the skirmish game got popular enough they'd be willing to license it out to a 3rd party.

Also I hope they give their English Translators more time. One of theirs used to hang out on a forum I use to visit and the deadlines where crazy short, like 2 days for a whole book.

Hi, I'm the one who posted the last message translated by .Mikes..

I don't know if they will make new asian goblins but they said that they will release stats for all the old range to play with in the new game.

The penultimate line is about their plans for a RPG (but it looks like google doesn't know that JDR in french means RPG ^^).
They do plan to do a RPG in the confrontation universe and it will be different from cadwallon rpg. It will be more focused on the role-playing aspect and less on the tactical miniature fights.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 21:16:01


Post by: Riquende


 bubber wrote:


Thanks - you just made me spend $67 inc P&P on the Titan Dragon!


Same...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/19 23:16:24


Post by: .Mikes.


Samko wrote:
Hi, I'm the one who posted the last message translated by .Mikes..

I don't know if they will make new asian goblins but they said that they will release stats for all the old range to play with in the new game.

The penultimate line is about their plans for a RPG (but it looks like google doesn't know that JDR in french means RPG ^^).
They do plan to do a RPG in the confrontation universe and it will be different from cadwallon rpg. It will be more focused on the role-playing aspect and less on the tactical miniature fights.


Thanks for the reply, much better to get it straight from the source


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 03:03:48


Post by: Monkeysloth


 .Mikes. wrote:
Samko wrote:
Hi, I'm the one who posted the last message translated by .Mikes..

I don't know if they will make new asian goblins but they said that they will release stats for all the old range to play with in the new game.

The penultimate line is about their plans for a RPG (but it looks like google doesn't know that JDR in french means RPG ^^).
They do plan to do a RPG in the confrontation universe and it will be different from cadwallon rpg. It will be more focused on the role-playing aspect and less on the tactical miniature fights.


Thanks for the reply, much better to get it straight from the source


Yep, happy to hear except the Cadwallon stuff. It's a dang good RPG and not one that's more focused on combat then any other RPG. Just that the geniuses at Rackham (that's sarcastic) wanted the RPG rules to be cryptic as they thought it would be fun thus the rewrite in French after complaints. Sad that it will never get it's fair shake.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 19:06:54


Post by: .Mikes.


So this happened:



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 19:17:13


Post by: Alpharius


'Classic' being the tabletop skirmish rules and...some miniatures?

And "Resurrection" being the boardgame, definitely with PVC miniatures?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 19:28:20


Post by: Riquende


 Alpharius wrote:
'Classic' being the tabletop skirmish rules and...some miniatures?

And "Resurrection" being the boardgame, definitely with PVC miniatures?


The way I take it is that 'Classic' is going to be a reprint (maybe re-edited) of the last rulebook, perhaps with miniatures but I'd assume not. Maybe card packs with rebalanced profiles? I think it's mainly being done to reignite a bit of nostalgic interest in folks before their own system comes in later.

Could be wrong.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 19:38:12


Post by: chaos45


need more info--if its just a re-printed rule book and old miniatures not sure it will do well.

Most of the us old players have several 3+ edition rule books and tons of the old metals.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 20:08:00


Post by: Alpharius


I think it will do "OK" if it is "just" a revised rulebook and cards.

It will hopefully re-ignite interest in the game AND get more people playing again.

Add in a couple of new miniatures (or maybe even one for each major faction), and that will help a lot too.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 20:59:49


Post by: Necros


Missed out on this game back in the day, would love to check it out now. Is this gonna be a CMON game? If so guess that means their Q1 campaign will come after the Hate KS is done? that'll give me some time to save up a bit.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 21:06:58


Post by: Mr Morden


 Alpharius wrote:
I think it will do "OK" if it is "just" a revised rulebook and cards.

It will hopefully re-ignite interest in the game AND get more people playing again.

Add in a couple of new miniatures (or maybe even one for each major faction), and that will help a lot too.


Love to get my Devourers out again - I'd possibily pledge for a Devourers pack - a new Eclipsante Hero would be great and/or another fully armoured hero

I used to run Tyrant, Flesh Eater, Huntsmen and either elves or Elcipsantes - loved them. Especialyy against Wolfen.

We had a small tourney a few years back with lots of old players and although only came mid table - killed soooo much stuff.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 22:01:13


Post by: Alpharius


 Necros wrote:
Missed out on this game back in the day, would love to check it out now. Is this gonna be a CMON game? If so guess that means their Q1 campaign will come after the Hate KS is done? that'll give me some time to save up a bit.


I wasn't thinking this was going to be CMON related at all.

Yes, that is confusing, as this group, CMON and that Russian outfit are all making stuff for CONFRONTATION, more or less...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 22:48:09


Post by: .Mikes.


 Riquende wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
'Classic' being the tabletop skirmish rules and...some miniatures?

And "Resurrection" being the boardgame, definitely with PVC miniatures?


The way I take it is that 'Classic' is going to be a reprint (maybe re-edited) of the last rulebook, perhaps with miniatures but I'd assume not. Maybe card packs with rebalanced profiles? I think it's mainly being done to reignite a bit of nostalgic interest in folks before their own system comes in later.


This is how I took it. SD said from the outset there would be two rule sets for Resurrection, one for skirmisj tabletop, and one board game ish thing.

I'm wondering if they'll be doing something special for the 3rd ed KS, given most people who'd be interested probably already have the old rulebook. But if it gets people re-interested and gam,es played before Reso comes out I'll be happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alpharius wrote:
 Necros wrote:
Missed out on this game back in the day, would love to check it out now. Is this gonna be a CMON game? If so guess that means their Q1 campaign will come after the Hate KS is done? that'll give me some time to save up a bit.


I wasn't thinking this was going to be CMON related at all.


No, CMON aren't involved. Cadwallon add a complication, but from the stuff i posted above I'm taking away that while the old mdoels will be compatible new stuff will be made for Reso, although that's me reading into it, so I could be wrong.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 23:01:54


Post by: youwashock


I would love to see Confrontation readily available and wildly popular again. I fear that will also mean me buying more Confrontation...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/20 23:37:46


Post by: .Mikes.


You say that like it's a bad thing.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 00:13:22


Post by: Alpharius


 .Mikes. wrote:
 Riquende wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
'Classic' being the tabletop skirmish rules and...some miniatures?

And "Resurrection" being the boardgame, definitely with PVC miniatures?


The way I take it is that 'Classic' is going to be a reprint (maybe re-edited) of the last rulebook, perhaps with miniatures but I'd assume not. Maybe card packs with rebalanced profiles? I think it's mainly being done to reignite a bit of nostalgic interest in folks before their own system comes in later.


This is how I took it. SD said from the outset there would be two rule sets for Resurrection, one for skirmisj tabletop, and one board game ish thing.

I'm wondering if they'll be doing something special for the 3rd ed KS, given most people who'd be interested probably already have the old rulebook. But if it gets people re-interested and gam,es played before Reso comes out I'll be happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alpharius wrote:
 Necros wrote:
Missed out on this game back in the day, would love to check it out now. Is this gonna be a CMON game? If so guess that means their Q1 campaign will come after the Hate KS is done? that'll give me some time to save up a bit.


I wasn't thinking this was going to be CMON related at all.


No, CMON aren't involved. Cadwallon add a complication, but from the stuff i posted above I'm taking away that while the old mdoels will be compatible new stuff will be made for Reso, although that's me reading into it, so I could be wrong.


Isn't that what I said?

That CMON wasn't going to be involved?

At least, not with the manufacturing of anything here...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 00:16:18


Post by: .Mikes.


You said you thought.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 00:26:34


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


So are they going to try and get Cadwallon and Legendarion working with them?

I'll be honest, they both put out some neat sculpts that definitely carry on the feel of Confrontation, but their recasting of other stuff always makes me balk at supporting them.

Probably wishful thinking...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 00:30:44


Post by: .Mikes.


The stuff I linked above said that Cadwallon had been contacted by SD, but that was it. Could be they might try and get them on board, or could be that new stuff will slowly be released to replace the existing stuff and evenutally phase out any impact Cadwallon could have. But that's just me thinking out loud.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 00:43:46


Post by: Alpharius


.Mikes. wrote:The stuff I linked above said that Cadwallon had been contacted by SD, but that was it. Could be they might try and get them on board, or could be that new stuff will slowly be released to replace the existing stuff and evenutally phase out any impact Cadwallon could have. But that's just me thinking out loud.


You don't say?


highlord tamburlaine wrote:So are they going to try and get Cadwallon and Legendarion working with them?

I'll be honest, they both put out some neat sculpts that definitely carry on the feel of Confrontation, but their recasting of other stuff always makes me balk at supporting them.

Probably wishful thinking...


Probably try and get them to be a 'licensed partner' of something similar, but seeing as Cadwallon has been doing this for years (apparently) without one, and is located in Russia...in seems unlikely.

Still, stranger things have happened.



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/21 04:04:55


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Problem with cadwallon, is that those casts are not 100% good. Some are perfect, but i know some figures were cast with a missing leg, disfigured face etc. (Dont ask me how i know). I dont know have many percent are bad casts, but i dont think thats something you can sell legit or people would be very upset.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/23 22:10:49


Post by: youwashock


 Riquende wrote:
 bubber wrote:


Thanks - you just made me spend $67 inc P&P on the Titan Dragon!


Same...


At the very least this news has helped move three dragons...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/23 22:56:14


Post by: .Mikes.


If only Bilbo had known.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/23 23:03:58


Post by: Riquende


 .Mikes. wrote:
If only Bilbo had known.




Actually I always wanted the dragon. I was in a dead end job at the time and there was no way I could justify it. When I was earning decent money they cropped up on ebay from time to time but always went for more than I was prepared to pay.

My local group is currently cautiously excited about developments with this game. I sold a lot of mine off but retained fully painted forces for Mid Nor, Wolfen, Ophidians and Griffons. I've also got huge unpainted forces for Acheron and Cadwallon that I might well get more enthused about tackling.



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/24 21:38:36


Post by: thekingofkings


 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Problem with cadwallon, is that those casts are not 100% good. Some are perfect, but i know some figures were cast with a missing leg, disfigured face etc. (Dont ask me how i know). I dont know have many percent are bad casts, but i dont think thats something you can sell legit or people would be very upset.


I have had nothing but perfect casts, but my bud had one miscast and they replaced for him pretty fast.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 12:11:47


Post by: Sikil


I realy hope that the Dirz will remain largely the same. They where my favorite. However, I must say that I had hoped for a continuation of Ragnarok and not the skirmish game. I realy enjoed Confrontation in the mass combat version!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 12:14:25


Post by: quickfuze


 Sikil wrote:
I realy hope that the Dirz will remain largely the same. They where my favorite. However, I must say that I had hoped for a continuation of Ragnarok and not the skirmish game. I realy enjoed Confrontation in the mass combat version!


Too much competition out there for massed combat. I think this game was never better than during the Dogs of War progressive experience leagues time....such a good game.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 14:14:11


Post by: Alpharius


 quickfuze wrote:
 Sikil wrote:
I realy hope that the Dirz will remain largely the same. They where my favorite. However, I must say that I had hoped for a continuation of Ragnarok and not the skirmish game. I realy enjoed Confrontation in the mass combat version!


Too much competition out there for massed combat. I think this game was never better than during the Dogs of War progressive experience leagues time....such a good game.


Agreed!

The Great Confragnarok Swindle is what really helped hasten the overall collapse of Rackham.

Confrontation for me was best as a detailed skirmish game, with absolutely stunning miniatures.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 14:37:19


Post by: AegisGrimm


I would like to see how a skirmish game plays as I never played those, but I have to admit I have a ton of fun fielding my Dirz in the Age of Ragnorok ruleset, prepainted be damned. Nothing more sinister than 30+ clones on the tabletop, supported by all their monsters, against a horde of Wolfen.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 16:21:30


Post by: Sikil


AT-43 had a HUGE playerbase worldwide, and CAOR was building up steam. Problem was that the investment firm that bought Rackham overinvested in high risk companies and went belly up...

Had Rackham had serious owners and just a tad bit more funds, then the games would have had a serious chanse against the competitors. Just the simple fact that all units were assembled and painted to a tabletop standard out of the box gave the less hobby orieted the perfect excuse to get playing without having to resort to the "grey army of doom".

I gave them a wash of ink and then some hightlights and thus made armies of good size in no-time that looked great!


Anyways, I do hope that AT-43 gets resurrected one day, and that it will get a v2 of the old rules so the game gets sightly better ballance...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 16:48:34


Post by: Alpharius


It would have been nice if they had approached the whole Confragnarok thing with a *tad* more honesty.

Even saying 'nothing' would have been better!

Still, that was then and this is now, so best of luck to this group!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 19:04:04


Post by: thekingofkings


exactly, the skirmish aspect was always great, but the models were the same regardless of scale, so once the models start coming the evo and rag'narok sets still work.. but more to the point some of the factions were never really numerous enough to field a large army, they relied on skirmishy forces.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/25 21:26:16


Post by: streetsamurai


With the amount of ill will the change to ppp generated among the player base, i dont think aor had even the slightest chance of ever being succesfull.

A lot of hobby shop in france (their biggest market) completely cutted ties with rackham after that


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/26 02:39:21


Post by: thekingofkings


 streetsamurai wrote:
With the amount of ill will the change to ppp generated among the player base, i dont think aor had even the slightest chance of ever being succesfull.

A lot of hobby shop in france (their biggest market) completely cutted ties with rackham after that


yeah i was mixed, I really love the PPP but I also really am into the metals :/


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2017/12/28 10:23:37


Post by: .Mikes.


From Facebook:



"A blast from the past :
Is it Santa on his sleigh doing overtime ? Of course not ! ^^
Meet Khelran, the Raïk of the Torches of Gerikân, one of the main orcish hordes on Aarklash."



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/01/22 23:30:42


Post by: .Mikes.


The Conf Res FB page has had some activity since the last post. Updating the survey for favourite characters from factions that will receive some love in the forthcoming KS and also posting another contest to guess ahead of time what the results will be be, and also releaseing some unseen artwork from the old game.

And then, someone posted this on another Conf FB page:



No more indication what this could mean. Cadwallon has always been pointed out as a reason why Conf hasn't been rebooted before, but if Sans Detour has or is coming to an understanding with them that can only be a good thing.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/01/23 01:36:53


Post by: plastictrees


The fact that they're referencing the project suggests they'll be working with them.
"We've been selling other people's work without paying for it but will now be a trusted partner" doesn't sound like a super strong foundation. Not one I want to put any money into anyway.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/01/23 05:17:57


Post by: Monkeysloth


They've stopped doing recasts before. Use to sell infinity LE's only then suddenly stopped and started carrying the whole line sans the LE's.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/01/23 12:48:33


Post by: Yodhrin


 plastictrees wrote:
The fact that they're referencing the project suggests they'll be working with them.
"We've been selling other people's work without paying for it but will now be a trusted partner" doesn't sound like a super strong foundation. Not one I want to put any money into anyway.


I'd have a lot more sympathy for that characterisation if they were selling stuff that was in production at the time. I don't particularly care if ebay speculators lose out on a few quid tbh.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/01/23 21:02:16


Post by: .Mikes.


It's fair to say that one of the reasons Confrontation is still so healthy today is because ofCadwallon.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/13 04:27:56


Post by: .Mikes.




With a note the resulting video will be posted on YouTube.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/13 14:24:30


Post by: Alpharius


Wish there was more information about the upcoming game - this dribs and drabs thing is killing me!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/13 22:16:01


Post by: .Mikes.


They've mentioned in replies to comments that they're still on track for a Q1 KS for the old rules re-release, and there's be a 'surprise' included in it. That's a direct translation of the word, so I don't know if there's colloquial connotation included in it, but there you go.

But yeah, totally with you. I have the last of my Wolfen to paint lined up after I finish these Infinity models, ready to ride the wave of re-interest.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/15 22:33:59


Post by: .Mikes.


From the Conf Res FB page:

As every year, Sans-Détour will be at the International Cannes Games Festival, from Thursday 22nd to Sunday 25th of February.
The Confrontation - Classic miniatures project manager will be personally present for some great revelations about the Kickstarter being prepared!
And then, we have prepared a small gift for the occasion: come and say hello leave with our special flyer Kickstarter that will offer a little decor to go up!
Find us at Stand 06.02, just at the entrance, right down the steps.

Dear english fans, don't worry ! We won't let you down !
While being at the Games Festival in Cannes, we will upload our special Kickstarter flyer. It will include the template of our little shed and of course some infos about the upcoming campaign !


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 20:43:02


Post by: Hanskrampf


 .Mikes. wrote:
Spoiler:

Oh no... my poor wallet.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 20:46:16


Post by: ScarletRose


I'm deeply intrigued by this.

I've always been a Dirz fan so I'm hoping that 178 models includes some nice monstrosities.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 20:59:50


Post by: ced1106


Any comments on how well SD would be able to pull off fulfilling a KS? I'm not familiar with the company. Thanks!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 21:06:34


Post by: Alpharius


Er, wow?

Remind me again of the material that they'll be using too?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 22:26:08


Post by: .Mikes.


I think the term was 'high quality plastic' but don't quote me on that. It won't be metal, that;s all i know for sure.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 22:47:22


Post by: Ernster


I assume the 178 miniatures are an "All in" pledge. Hopefully they provide some images of the miniatures soon.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/19 22:55:11


Post by: .Mikes.


I read it like that too. I hope they have a book onlu option though.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 08:51:21


Post by: fresus


 .Mikes. wrote:
I read it like that too. I hope they have a book onlu option though.

Same here. I also read the French version like that.
It looks like the KS is about a special box, but then they say that 178 is the number of minis available at launch, which implies there might be more in the future. Which doesn't make sense if we're talking about a single box, and not a model line with models that can be purchased individually/by groups.
And even with a good price, 178 minis would cost a fortune, it seems difficult to have that many in a single box.
It's all very confusing…


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 12:34:56


Post by: Yodhrin


fresus wrote:
 .Mikes. wrote:
I read it like that too. I hope they have a book onlu option though.

Same here. I also read the French version like that.
It looks like the KS is about a special box, but then they say that 178 is the number of minis available at launch, which implies there might be more in the future. Which doesn't make sense if we're talking about a single box, and not a model line with models that can be purchased individually/by groups.
And even with a good price, 178 minis would cost a fortune, it seems difficult to have that many in a single box.
It's all very confusing…


I think they mean at the launch of the Kickstarter, ie they're implying both that there will be stretches with more minis, and trying to ensure folk understand there will be a decent amount in there even if they only just hit their funding. EDIT: And 178 models is no problem at all if they're going with a CMON-style setup.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 17:58:04


Post by: youwashock


Well, they have my attention. Big promises. Hoping to see some models/more details.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 18:02:57


Post by: Alpharius


The whole 178 thing is, perhaps, a bit lost in translation?

Like yes, there's going to be 178 (plus more unlocked) miniatures, but maybe spread across the 16 factions?

I liked a lot of the Confrontation factions, but even I don't need all 16's worth!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 18:47:36


Post by: Samko


 Alpharius wrote:
The whole 178 thing is, perhaps, a bit lost in translation?

Like yes, there's going to be 178 (plus more unlocked) miniatures, but maybe spread across the 16 factions?

I liked a lot of the Confrontation factions, but even I don't need all 16's worth!
The announce reads the same in french : one box with 178 different minis included at the launch of the KS. But yes it's 178 minis across the 16 factions, not 178 for each faction.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 18:53:47


Post by: Riquende


I assume it's a 'greatest hits' box that also allows balanced c3 play between the 16 factions. Probably at a reduced points value as some factions barely scratched a useful 300pts.

I'll likely have no use for the full box as I've got almost everything I wanted for the 6 factions I kept. Maybe if there's smaller faction packs or the opportunity for singles I'll look into it.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 19:07:39


Post by: Alpharius


Hmmm... if so, that would have to mean this will be "PVC" of some sort, and...that's troubling - at least up front.

Confrontation as a 'brand' needs beautiful sculpts and high quality materials in order to survive and do well...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 19:12:34


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I could belive 178 minis might be doable for a reasonable cost, but 178 different minis...... if that's in plastic that is going to be expensive


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 19:20:06


Post by: Smokestack


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I could belive 178 minis might be doable for a reasonable cost, but 178 different minis...... if that's in plastic that is going to be expensive


Well it doesn't say 178 different minis. Just 178 minis over 16 factions... so at minimum 11 or so individual minis, but potentially 178 individual sculpts. I would wager at around 11 minis per faction it would be 1 hero, and maybe 2 or 3 troops in multiples.... I wonder if these will be the pre-painted plastic mini plastics, just not painted.

edit: Just re-read. It does say 178 "Unique" sculpts... so who knows.



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 19:24:11


Post by: bubber


C'mon's 7 Sins was all PVC & I got a huge box of minis (not sure how many) for $215. I think its doable.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 19:35:08


Post by: Smokestack


 bubber wrote:
C'mon's 7 Sins was all PVC & I got a huge box of minis (not sure how many) for $215. I think its doable.


Yes. And Wrath of Kings had 5 factions of around 30-40 models each at $200. So, it is doable. I am interested.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 20:00:03


Post by: Alpharius


It is no doubt 'doable' but is it 'doable' in terms of that price point and high quality?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 20:37:36


Post by: YouKnowsIt


If it's at the quality of CMoNs latest stuff then I would say yes.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 20:43:57


Post by: Alpharius


I'd want them to also combine the CMON WoK's use of ABS on weapons as well though...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/20 22:48:50


Post by: .Mikes.


 .Mikes. wrote:
I hope they have a book onlu option though.


Further to this - I hope they have add on options to buy decks of faction cards. We've all got minis we bought second hand that don't have cards.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/25 23:37:27


Post by: .Mikes.


A video interview with Sans Detours this weekend from a con in Cannes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKsjbdxuBO4

Take aways (as my limited French unsderstands:
- The KS will come in a box
- Each of the 16 factions present in Conf v3 will be represented in the box
- The KS will produce 178 unique models (IE, no repeats)
- Confrontation Resurrection, the game, will be ready in 1029, and takes place after the Ragnarok
- All existing factions will be present "One way or another"
- The rules in Resurrection will be new, but will go back to 'the fundamentals of the game" and be skirmish level
- Rules will allow quick immersion, and will be quick to play.
- SD want the Classic Confrontation KS to be a luanch pad for new players as well as something for existing players.
- Everything (model wise) in the KS will be usable in Resurrection.
- I believe he confirmed old models will be usable on Resurrection.
- There will be a role playing game.
- There will be a board game.

They finished with some images which I believe were the forces which will be available int he KS:






Automatically Appended Next Post:
From someone who spoke to SD at the con:

"Figs will be good plastic, but with two different plastics (like mythic battle), a harder for small parts.
It will be a big box, with 178 figs + strechs goals, with a playable component by faction.
Then, in 2019, new rules, new figs (including akkyshans !!), and derivative products (board games, role playing ...). Among the old figs, only the figs of the first KS will be playable with Resurrection."

So it sounds like it will be a single pledge level with 178 models plus rulebook..... that sounds expensive.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 00:12:24


Post by: Overread


I really hope they open up pledge options. One the one hand a simple all in one box is much easier for them to produce in terms of packaging and complexity of orders to process.

On the other hand one big way to make more money in a KS is to allow almost free-form ordering of models; it generally results in a lot more people buying into the game.

Of course if they are dead set on 2019 they might only want to fund rather than become the next biggest KS launch (as we've seen time and agian with models not only are deadlines notoriously inaccurate; but most times than not a much bigger order can result in issues that a more modest KS wouldn't throw up - ergo production orders end up way larger and the KS has to split into multiple shipping waves and the like).



All that said a high quality plastic 178 miniatures boxed set runs a high risk of having a highish price; that means fewer people will jump on board; esp to start with. Hopefully they can offer a few cheaper options.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 00:25:56


Post by: .Mikes.


 Overread wrote:

On the other hand one big way to make more money in a KS is to allow almost free-form ordering of models; it generally results in a lot more people buying into the game.

Of course if they are dead set on 2019 they might only want to fund rather than become the next biggest KS launch (as we've seen time and agian with models not only are deadlines notoriously inaccurate; but most times than not a much bigger order can result in issues that a more modest KS wouldn't throw up - ergo production orders end up way larger and the KS has to split into multiple shipping waves and the like).


Sorry, I might not have been explicit in the above - the KS for Confrontation Classic (a reissue of Conf 3rd ed) will launch in April. 2019 will see the release of a new edition of Confrontation which will not be kickstarted.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 00:29:29


Post by: Overread


Mikes aye, but I would wager they'd need to complete the KS before going live with a range relaunch. Not just for public relations (ergo ks backers not getting products before retail is getting brand new sculpts of new products); but also from a manufacture and business side of things - ergo actually having enough free staff to produce and work for a retail launch.



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 01:31:40


Post by: .Mikes.


Okeedoke. Just making sure I didn't give a wrong impression.

Although it does seem as if they're using existing sculpts, so that would be a big time sink gone there. We'll see I suppose, lots of details are still up the air.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And one more round up from someone who can actually speak French (so losing my crappy translating skills):

"KS classic in April:
- 178 figures from the 16 armies of the game, put together in a big single box Conan format.
- 3D scan of existing parts to redo masters.
- Plastic molding, Conan quality or Myhtic Battles.
- Reprint a C3 collector book without the slightest change in rules (I do not even know if 3.5 will be put in it).
- The figs of KS will be entirely playable in the future Confrontation Resurrection.
- Availability only via KS, these pieces will never be available for shops.
- The idea is to put Confrontation back on the scene (the range has been dead for 10 years, a lot of current players have simply never played, or even have not heard about it) the time to refine Resurrection.

Resurrection:
- New system of integral game.
- Coming in 2019.
- Destined to be available in store.

My personal impressions :
- Most of the figures of Classic will be simple reprint, but some new surprises will be in, otherwise I do not understand anything.
- Square pedestals for Classic, since the C3 rules will be provided with it would not make any sense to do otherwise.
- With a box "Conan format", we can expect a price "Conan format", so between 150 & 200 € the pledge, plus FdP & possible addons pay."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From my POV, a single, massive box pledge is a mistake. It looks like the models will be preprints of existing ones. Existing players will already have the rules and models, and why would new players want to sink a fair hcunk of money in a system which, by the manufacturer's own mission statement, has no future?

Lots of KSs have shown the demand for a pick-you-particular-force approach to pledges. Mantis is a good example of this, especially Vanguard. The campaign flagged until they offered individual force add ons.

I hope I'm wrong and they don't do the Conan-esque only route.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 11:34:49


Post by: Mr Morden


It does seem a bit odd the rules were quite good but not even tweeking them is weird - the latter would have maybe generated interest in the system.

Pretty dead here about outs with some many competitors in the skirmish market - I must own at least twenty different rules - probably more.

We had a big organiser for games here but even he sold most of his (for good money) after a final tourney about 7 years ago.

I remember when they came out they were so different to everything else - especially the Wolfen /Devourers (my favs) but now not so much - Ancient King even gave us more of these - most of mine are still sitting in the box sadly.

Are they re-doing the cards?

If you are trying to drum up awareness but keeping the shops out of the loop that does seem counterintuitive?

The Conan and Pantheon figures are really excellent so if they keep that quality I might get a few more Devourers as they are more easily converted than metal - esp with the Ancient king figures but would not go for a big box as many I am not that bothered about.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 11:58:15


Post by: .Mikes.


They're not tweaking the rules for Classic. The re work will come in Resurrection next year.

Anyway, I contacted SD about my concerns. The replied, not exactly addressing them, but they did say that one detail that hasn't been released yet was that the rules for Resurrection would be released for free when the KS is delivered, so that's something.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 12:45:19


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I'm not sure that selling a big box is going to be a mistake,

it's all very well thinking this is intended to appeal to existing collectors/players of confrontation but i'm not really sure that is the case,

if you collect/play (or used to) you probably have a bunch of the existing stuff so are actually not an ideal target

(maybe if they can offer some smaller pledge levels, but that's going to put up picking/packing costs, possibly quite significantly, I;ve seen several campaigns quoting about $1-2 per item picked at the individual pledge level, plus extra costs to have the items individual anyway, and the more picking gets done the more mistakes that need sorting with extra shipping costs too)

what they're probably looking at is the KS (boardgame) backer who wants big boxed of minis for 'value' (and if they're honest with themselves may not use them or the game they came with).

Sell a big box of stuff, get the secondary market energised with a bunch of re-selling when the box delivers and hope that extra interest and name recognition helps when they deliver the new game they really want to make


One thing that may be of some concern is what they'd be taking these existing sculpts from, if they've got original masters fine, but if they're dependant on scanning retail casts that plus the normal PVC shrinkage may be an issue


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 13:15:43


Post by: Overread


Wasn't there the re-caster who pulled their website stock/sales with a note that they were going to work official with the IP owners? That would likely be a source of production?

At least if the re-caster website is being honest.


Also they will have ot nail the details on this release, if they mess it up then even if its not the core product it will still reflect very badly upon them.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 14:29:36


Post by: Alpharius


"PVC" here is a red flag.

Hopefully they'll have some 'representative samples' to show us at or around launch time.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:07:37


Post by: Gallahad


The problem with a big box format is that there are a lot of the range that are kind of stinkers (lots of the Griffin, many Wolfen, many of the Kelts, some of the elves). They were a little above average when they came out, but are now decidedly below average. The translation to PVC should also be a big problem with shrinkage. Many belts, straps, faces and wrinkles will shrink into melty territory. Many of the sculpts were already pretty willowy (cynwall ankles, kelt fiannas,etc.). I worry that shrinkage will move them into Sedition Wars wave 2 territory.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:08:08


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 Alpharius wrote:
"PVC" here is a red flag.

Hopefully they'll have some 'representative samples' to show us at or around launch time.


Yuuuup. You can't just scan an existing metal sculpt and recast it in PVC. You have to account for how the different material works and shrinks. Also, while Confrontation sculpts may have been top notch 15 years ago, a good number of them now look super dated (griffons, goblins and orcs in particular), and looked bad even in the line. Just re[printing the same older mediocre sculpts won't raw in a new audience, and lots of us have huge amounts already (Thanks mini market 80% off clearance!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gallahad wrote:
The problem with a big box format is that there are a lot of the range that are kind of stinkers (lots of the Griffin, many Wolfen, many of the Kelts, some of the elves). They were a little above average when they came out, but are now decidedly below average. The translation to PVC should also be a big problem with shrinkage. Many belts, straps, faces and wrinkles will shrink into melty territory. Many of the sculpts were already pretty willowy (cynwall ankles, kelt fiannas,etc.). I worry that shrinkage will move them into Sedition Wars wave 2 territory.


Haha, jinx!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:17:32


Post by: Alpharius


 Gallahad wrote:
The problem with a big box format is that there are a lot of the range that are kind of stinkers (lots of the Griffin, many Wolfen, many of the Kelts, some of the elves). They were a little above average when they came out, but are now decidedly below average. The translation to PVC should also be a big problem with shrinkage. Many belts, straps, faces and wrinkles will shrink into melty territory. Many of the sculpts were already pretty willowy (cynwall ankles, kelt fiannas,etc.). I worry that shrinkage will move them into Sedition Wars wave 2 territory.


Good point - and horrifyingly scary one too!

PVC + (potentially) inexperienced company = Disaster Level Event is a Real Possibility!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:30:46


Post by: YouKnowsIt


At the same time, scanning them gives you a base mesh to work off. It's a lot easier to adjust an existing mesh to allow for shrinkage than it is to sculpt afresh.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:33:57


Post by: Mr Morden


Was Conan and Pantheon PVC or something else as they have some pretty slim figures?



Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:40:13


Post by: NoggintheNog


I just want the rest of the devourers I missed out on, mostly things like headhunters.

A PVC copy of the Master of Carnage, still my all time favourite 28mm mini, and 100 odd very average sculpts to get it, is not going to get me to sign up.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 15:43:56


Post by: Mr Morden


NoggintheNog wrote:
I just want the rest of the devourers I missed out on, mostly things like headhunters.

A PVC copy of the Master of Carnage, still my all time favourite 28mm mini, and 100 odd very average sculpts to get it, is not going to get me to sign up.


Pretty much played exclusively Devourers - big armoured males and the odd Eclipsante or Elf/elves to fill out the points, The Eclipsante mainly because she looked so cool, she never did much

Usually did pretty well in games.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 16:55:59


Post by: AndrewGPaul


The only models I really want are actually from the pre-painted game line - the Griffin mounted Templars. Well, those, the Goblin pirates and the undead king on his throne.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 16:57:58


Post by: grefven


In my opinion, most of the old Confrontation line really stands up against most of the ranges that are currently running. The Kelts and Drunes are still just as good as any other barbarian faction out there. The samurai and ninja goblins are amazing. Many of the orcs are, by far, better than most that are available today. I just don't know why people consider these sculpts, even if they are 15+ years old, poor compared with other companies.

For my part, I am not really interested in getting an entire box of figures. However, if there is an option to chose specific miniatures, then I would for sure pick up some of my favorite figures. Some of the Confrontation range are still some of my favorite miniatures, and it is not because of nostalgic reasons, but because they do stand up against the test of time.

Am I concerned about PVC? For sure. That might turn out terrible, especially on some of the more delicate figures, as mentioned above. But I'll leave that concern until the KS starts and once I can see some prototypes. Going into this blind without seeing any of the prototypes first, well, I'll probably skip that and if so wait for retail. But hopefully, they will come a bit more prepared, albeit I am a bit worried they won't seeing how the English-speaking audience is pretty much neglected. And I'd assume that they will stand for the majority of the support world-wide.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 19:24:21


Post by: ScarletRose


PVC can mean so many things, the Wrath of Kings minis (some of which are very close to Confrontation Wolfen in design) actually came out fine.

That's not to say it's a guaranteed success either, but maybe they can pull it off. I'm going to wait and see.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 20:40:52


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


From the sound of it they're probably going to the same place as CMON since there're talking about PVC with harder stuff (ABS) for weapons

if so they've got the skills and tech to get them to come out right

(assuming they can afford whatever computer tech time is needed to tidy up the scans right, there's always the chance they need to do it cheap and might feel the need to minimise this aspect if the factory has different priced option)


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 21:07:04


Post by: .Mikes.


Just to be clear, no one involved with the game has said the models will be PVC.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 21:59:55


Post by: ced1106


So do we have more info about SD or the folks behind it?

With Monolith, I had to dig around, but found out the publisher worked for Bombix (?) a company that had some miniatures and retail experience.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 22:05:00


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 .Mikes. wrote:
Just to be clear, no one involved with the game has said the models will be PVC.


not officially no, but from one of your previous posts


"Figs will be good plastic, but with two different plastics (like mythic battle), a harder for small parts."


so that basically means PVC for the main body, and something else for the small parts (probably ABS based on what CMON does),

it's certainly not normal HIPS (polystyrene) as if it was the second plastic wouldn't be needed

and hopefully it isn't something totally new as if it is nobody is going to have enough experience working with it yet to give great results (compare early CMON stuff for Zombicide with Massive Darkness etc for how steep the learning curve was for PVC at that was starting from a base of PVC having a history of being used for plastic minis)


Edit: I hope I don't come off as saying PVC would be a bad thing, it's not and could produce decent results if handled right and from the sound of it they're probably going to be working with a factory that has the capability to do so


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/26 22:30:39


Post by: .Mikes.


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


not officially no, but from one of your previous posts


"Figs will be good plastic, but with two different plastics (like mythic battle), a harder for small parts."



Fair point. But the brackets the poster put in there made me assume that was their own take rather than something official. It comes back down to there's still so much which hasn't been confirmed yet. It's safe to assume taht they've thought through everything that's been discussed here, and if their intention was to keep details back to generate discussion, well, they've done that.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/27 00:20:21


Post by: Ernster


@ Mr Morden, I can't find the Ancient King miniatures you speak of. Devourers and Wolfen were also my Favorites.

The re caster company has stopped selling the old Confrontation. They do Not Wolfen and Devourer sculpts on their own now. .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im hoping for more new miniature release's from Resurrection as well.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/27 00:35:21


Post by: Smokestack


Ernster wrote:
@ Mr Morden, I can't find the Ancient King miniatures you speak of. Devourers and Wolfen were also my Favorites.

The re caster company has stopped selling the old Confrontation. They do Not Wolfen and Devourer sculpts on their own now. .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im hoping for more new miniature release's from Resurrection as well.


Ancient King was what the pledge level was called during the Wrath of Kings Kickstarter.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/27 00:45:05


Post by: Ernster


Doh, I pledged to that. Thanks Smokestack, I thought I missed a new or old miniature company producing Wolfen.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/27 00:48:55


Post by: Smokestack


Yeah I love huge werewolf minis. A bought a couple of the Legendarian ones from Cadwallon which are very nice but a little bit larger than Confrontation and Wrath of Kings. I also have the Raging Heroes female werewolves which are also slightly larger but also very nice.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:12:01


Post by: Monkeysloth


Looks like they're selling original sculpts for figures that won't be moving over to the KSer and relaunch. You can buy them for 500 euros. Mostly the really old, uninteresting sculpts that need redoing but there might be some people that want to grab one.

https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/shop


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:36:18


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


The hell?????

Why would they do that? To make a quick buck?
Whats the point in that? Okey if you wont cast them. But what if they change their mind later on? It will be gone forever.

They selling of 100 of them. To never be seen again. Looking at them i can see atleast 20 i would buy.

This makes me sad as hell.
Why the hell would you buy up the rights to this only to destroy it like this.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:40:49


Post by: Monkeysloth


because they digitally scanned all the masters and can just 3d print new ones if casting in metal as plastic requires a 3d model to make the mold.

Also from the Facebook post these models they're not planning on ever recasting.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:51:48


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Can you really 3d scan that accurate? I never seen that. If thats true then i guess thats ok.

Still cant say i understand it. Why to sell of the stuff when they havent even released anything themself yet.

What if the 3d scan files get corrupted or whatever.

I just dont see whats the harm in keeping the originals to just have for safe keeps.

Who knows what happens.

So the only point is to make a quick buck out of it?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:56:29


Post by: Hanskrampf


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Looks like they're selling original sculpts for figures that won't be moving over to the KSer and relaunch. You can buy them for 500 euros. Mostly the really old, uninteresting sculpts that need redoing but there might be some people that want to grab one.

https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/shop

So... you can pick the masters up an recast them, right?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 22:58:51


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Doesnt include the rights but you could illegaly of course.

But not sure what the second half of the qoute means?

"The rights of prints are not included, with the delivery of this piece. But if you are an association, a creative studio, an editor, we invite you to contact us: contact@stellarlicencing.com » "


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 23:02:05


Post by: Theophony


 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Can you really 3d scan that accurate? I never seen that. If thats true then i guess thats ok.

Still cant say i understand it. Why to sell of the stuff when they havent even released anything themself yet.

What if the 3d scan files get corrupted or whatever.

I just dont see whats the harm in keeping the originals to just have for safe keeps.

Who knows what happens.

So the only point is to make a quick buck out of it?


Maybe they didn’t get the rights to those sculpts. Could be like GW when they didn’t have the correct paperwork for lots of their art from years past. Also, who’s to say they haven’t already scanned, fixed and begun manufacturing the models. The KS could be a revenue stream to get the models out before the rules.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 23:05:29


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Sound like they're open to licencing the right to make casts to sell if anybody wants to pay the appropriate fees (presumably limited to the duration of their licence? Still not quite sure if the own all the IP or have just licenced it)

after all if they really don't want to use any of these minis again in the future and they're not in the new game that would extra cash for free


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/02/28 23:36:20


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


Wow, they think pretty highly of some of those old clunkers. Pretty sure you can get someone to make you a decent new sculpt for that much. With the added benefit that your target audience wouldn't have already likely picked it up on clearance or from a recaster. I guess it's a chance to own a bit of history, but I remember thinking some of these were bad 15 years ago lol.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 01:24:28


Post by: plastictrees


If I was forced to make a list of models that any new version of the game shouldn't try to retain, most of those would be on it.

Everything about this whole enterprise continues to be weird and off putting though.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 01:33:34


Post by: Monkeysloth


 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Can you really 3d scan that accurate? I never seen that. If thats true then i guess thats ok.


What if the 3d scan files get corrupted or whatever.



Yes, you can scan that accurate. Any hand sculpted figure that's turned into a plastic mini is 3D scanned so the molds can be made, so it's pretty common in the plastic industry.

As to deal with the corruption same as any digital file. Have multiple copies.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Sound like they're open to licencing the right to make casts to sell if anybody wants to pay the appropriate fees (presumably limited to the duration of their licence? Still not quite sure if the own all the IP or have just licenced it)

after all if they really don't want to use any of these minis again in the future and they're not in the new game that would extra cash for free


The company selling the masters own Confrontation having bought it from Cyanide. The people making the game have licensed the rights.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 01:43:40


Post by: Alpharius


 plastictrees wrote:
If I was forced to make a list of models that any new version of the game shouldn't try to retain, most of those would be on it.


Ha! Exalted!

And...very true?

Aside from maybe the Griffin Executioner and the Goblin Standard Bearer...I agree!

 plastictrees wrote:

Everything about this whole enterprise continues to be weird and off putting though.


Also...becoming true...


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 01:52:48


Post by: plastictrees


 Alpharius wrote:
 plastictrees wrote:
If I was forced to make a list of models that any new version of the game shouldn't try to retain, most of those would be on it.


Ha! Exalted!

And...very true?

Aside from maybe the Griffin Executioner and the Goblin Standard Bearer...I agree!



Yeah there's a few conceptually cool minis in there, nothing that wouldn't improve with a new sculpt though IMO. I'm still a fan of the crossbow orcs for instance.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 17:42:00


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured







Dear adventurers, later this week, we’ll be giving you a chance to see the selection of models which will be in the basic Confrontation Classic box at the launch of the Kickstarter in April 2018. You’ve already seen the Wolfen and the Goblins. Here, as a bonus, are the Griffins and the Dirz! Come back and join us, Monday through Thursday, at 4 pm (GMT+1), to see the selection from another of the 16 factions from Confrontation Classic!


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 17:48:52


Post by: Alpharius


Some....odd choice there.

I wonder how they picked what they did?


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 17:53:05


Post by: His Master's Voice


Oh man, I'm totally going to buy all this junk so that I can get one Dirz model that originally came in a box of five and four goblins.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 18:00:36


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I'm with Alpharius. Odd choices indeed.

I'd have picked a lot more popular choices- Centurus clones, Cypher Lucan, Likai the Freed, the Prowler...

As I expected the Goblins are all the later releases.

I'd be tempted by a Behemoth box. Possibly a Dwarfs box too.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 18:07:46


Post by: Mr Morden


Hmm will wait to see waht Devourers they do - although I did like the Dirz models none of those shown are a must buy


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 18:08:05


Post by: Theophony


These are probably the only models where the masters and or molds survived. The others are probably too far gone to resurrect.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 18:11:21


Post by: HaleysRedComet


I've been watching this project pretty closely since it's been announced and I have no idea how they plan on pulling this off. They are taking existing metal models and converting them into plastic. This alone, for this line of models in particular, is a red flag. I don't think they will be producing models with the detail that the original metals had, and that detail is a large part of what makes them so good. The sharp embellishments on the armor are a hallmark of the Rackham line, and that is going to be near impossible to achieve without going to full HIPS/Games Workshop/Wyrd style hard plastic. Which is expensive and I can't see them doing. Also, reproducing plastic models from metals introduces complications - how do you achieve undercuts that metal molds allow for in plastic? Are these going to be preassembled and how much time and money goes into that undertaking if they are?

The other thing to consider is cost. Sans Detour have stated that they are going to have a single pledge for all 176 minis, not split them into smaller boxes or offer single parts. Even at $300 USD this puts the cost per mini at less than $2. I don't believe they will be able to do this, so either the cost will have to skyrocket or quality will plummet. An important thing to note about this project is how big Rackham figures are and how many of them are larger than a standard human. Their Dwarves have significantly more area they take up compared to a human, and they have 2 factions of large Wolfen.

There's also the fact that Sans Detour is using old studio images of the metal models to promote the project. They have not shown a single new miniature they will be producing, only showing metal minis. They have even used art instead when showing Sasia Samaris, a Dirz character they will be including, on their Facebook page stating that this will be included in the Kickstarter. I know the project hasn't launched, but they haven't begun to show anything they've done themselves in the promotion of the project. Their correspondence has also been filled with misspellings and grammatical errors when communicating in English, which doesn't bode well for any rules releases in the future.

I am a huge fan of Confrontation, I continue to play with a small group at my local shop, and really would like to see the game come back in a big way. I don't see Sans Detour being the company to do it, though. It looks like they are sacrificing the quality of the models and offering a sub-par product in order to gain funding for their newer version down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Theophony wrote:
These are probably the only models where the masters and or molds survived. The others are probably too far gone to resurrect.


They are selling some of the original masters right now, none of which are included in these lists. I also know where at least of of the molds is for a model they will include in the KS. It's not in France.


Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed. @ 2018/03/01 23:16:11


Post by: .Mikes.


Interview, brush up yer French:




Confrontation takes up the first 11 minutes.

Takeaway:

The minis won't be metal (5'24). Or resin (5'40) "because it's brittle". So soft plastic for the minis (6'22) and hard for weapons (6'24).
The KS will come with game equipment, dice, meters, game board set (7'39) "all you need to play".
He says the minis will be mounted, but I didn't catch any explanation on that, maybe I heard wrong.
The rules for Resurrection will be released during the delivery of the KS (8'41).
Alternate Activation will remains (10'53), as will the rules for m and Faith (11'07)
All models released during the KS will have profiles in Resurrection.