Interesting. As much as I'd like it to be "Seattle," I don't think it will be due to the pretty high cost of business around here. Plus, we already have more than one "game cafe" kinda thing, so it'd be stiffer competition.
A major hub for the first one definitely sounds plausible, though. But who knows, maybe they'll pull an Old-GW style thing and do "Topeka, KS".
NYC is just about the best I could hope for (although Stamford CT would be perfect!!). Fingers crossed, cuz it would take next to no effort to convince my wife to make a trip down.
I'm predicting American Northwest. There seems to be this impression that everything up there only happens in cafes and I could see them wanting to follow the path blazed by Snakes and Lattes.
Of course, that means they'll be entering an incredibly crowded market instead of a workable one...
Tossing out my bid for Chicago, as Adepticon is a huge draw, its a major hub, is close to Canadia (so they dont have far to go), and its a pretty good area in general once you get out of metro Chicago. No offense to anyone who lives there.
Its also just across the lake from me....
Also hoping the staff in the cafe are required to serve in terminator armor.
When gaming companies are trying to figure out how to draw in new folks, this is it. I think this is a really positive way to introduce new players and cash flow into GW. I doubt they would put one in IN so soon, but I bet Chicago would be in the top 3 or so.
Its basically the bunker but has been renamed to something much less......gamery?
Everything comes around again for GW eventually. Since they're back to producing and selling board games and supporting stores and events, it makes sense that the bunker concept would return also.
I guess GW wants some HQ2-style suspense about the location.
The biggest problem I have with this is when they say cafe do they really mean cafe as in coffee shop style?
Or are they really thinking a small counter with 3-4 pots of coffee and a vending machine with snacks in it? Sort of like something you would see at a gas station.
My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
Throwin in the bid for Toronto and all the board game hip folks that enjoy fair-trade coffee in this corner of North America. Can't bring a cafe to North America without opening a location in the Great White North eh? Besides, Canada, unlike Cadia, still exists.
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
The biggest danger - it gets used as a cheap daycare for smelly children. It happened to an internet cafe I went to - $20 for a full day pass = cheaper than a babysitter.
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
Oh I don't doubt the pull of coffee, I drink it every day.
I just doubt their use of the word cafe.
Some places use the term cafe very loosely and what they provide is not at all what the word implies. I am just wondering if this will be the same situation?
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
The biggest danger - it gets used as a cheap daycare for smelly children. It happened to an internet cafe I went to - $20 for a full day pass = cheaper than a babysitter.
Small children are very dangerous, yes. 10 years should be the younger a child can be there without adult supervision. But at the end of the day it depends of the child. My little cousin played Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition with my when he was 10 years old. I know guys with 15 that are like a children when it comes down to have respect for others and to know how to behave.
Another vote for Seattle (or slightly north).
I don't know if it fits their MO any more, but they used to find crowded marketplaces and move in. It would be a bit trickier in this case, but the Seattle market has a handful of these gamer cafes and they seem to be doing well here.
I think it may actually be less risky than a normal store for them. Rather than having to depend entirely on sales from the games themselves, having a cafe allows you to even out the income flow with transactions that aren't tied to specific games or model releases. It also (hopefully) serves as a way to monetize people meeting there for a game, without actually charging for table space.
I alway try to buy something at my FLGS when we are playing there, but sometimes there's just nothing that I need and I end up buying a soda or something. An option like this would allow me to financially support my store a bit more even when I've got all the models/paint/brushes I need at the moment.
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
The biggest danger - it gets used as a cheap daycare for smelly children. It happened to an internet cafe I went to - $20 for a full day pass = cheaper than a babysitter.
Small children are very dangerous, yes. 10 years should be the younger a child can be there without adult supervision. But at the end of the day it depends of the child. My little cousin played Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition with my when he was 10 years old. I know guys with 15 that are like a children when it comes down to have respect for others and to know how to behave.
Guys... There is nothing dangerous about kids. Seriously, it would be good to get more children into the hobby. Or else there isn't going to be a 40k anymore in 10-20 years. Kids are fun if you know how to interact with them. But if you think they are annoying, just ignore them.
Da Butcha wrote: I think it may actually be less risky than a normal store for them. Rather than having to depend entirely on sales from the games themselves, having a cafe allows you to even out the income flow with transactions that aren't tied to specific games or model releases. It also (hopefully) serves as a way to monetize people meeting there for a game, without actually charging for table space.
I alway try to buy something at my FLGS when we are playing there, but sometimes there's just nothing that I need and I end up buying a soda or something. An option like this would allow me to financially support my store a bit more even when I've got all the models/paint/brushes I need at the moment.
That’s a fair point. And I honestly don’t know if the wider Hobby currently caters to that?
After all, if you’ve got younger peeps showing up, somewhere for the parents to grab a cup of tea and a nice bit sit down is money in your pocket they’d likely spend round the corner?
It may only be say $10 a head, but if you get ten a day, that soon adds up over the year. And I’d say the cost and number I used may be conservative, depending on the other facilities they offer gamers.
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
The biggest danger - it gets used as a cheap daycare for smelly children. It happened to an internet cafe I went to - $20 for a full day pass = cheaper than a babysitter.
Small children are very dangerous, yes. 10 years should be the younger a child can be there without adult supervision. But at the end of the day it depends of the child. My little cousin played Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition with my when he was 10 years old. I know guys with 15 that are like a children when it comes down to have respect for others and to know how to behave.
Guys... There is nothing dangerous about kids. Seriously, it would be good to get more children into the hobby. Or else there isn't going to be a 40k anymore in 10-20 years. Kids are fun if you know how to interact with them. But if you think they are annoying, just ignore them.
Oh I totally agree. But theres a balance to be made. Adults can totally be as bad or worse than children in behaving in social spaces. But at the end of the day we all know theres children that... well. The problem in those cases is not the children, is the fathers.
The coffee will be free but you will need to pay for use of the cups and no outside cups will be allowed. The Primaris cups will be $30.
To access the game play table area you will need to let staff go through your miniatures to make sure they are GW models only. In addition, there will be a $5 per visit (all day pass) fee to use miniatures tables but this will be structured so you can pay for multiple visits at a reduced rate or a per month/year "membership" fee. The discounted payment structure will only work out for people who access the store 5+ times per month.
All the fanboys out there will lap it up like flies on dog crap!
Galas wrote: My local Great Mall put a Starbuck store in his lower floor, just at the side of one of the entrances, with windows to the exterior, etc...
It EXPLODED in customers, and it was a very high number of them even before.
Don't underestimate how physycally and socially addicted people is to coffe. If the "Cafe" part of the "Warhammer Cafe" is good enough, people could just enter for coffe. And then is a matter of time until they start playing warhammer.
Is the kind of business parents go to let their childrens play where they are speaking for hours.
The biggest danger - it gets used as a cheap daycare for smelly children. It happened to an internet cafe I went to - $20 for a full day pass = cheaper than a babysitter.
Small children are very dangerous, yes. 10 years should be the younger a child can be there without adult supervision. But at the end of the day it depends of the child. My little cousin played Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition with my when he was 10 years old. I know guys with 15 that are like a children when it comes down to have respect for others and to know how to behave.
Guys... There is nothing dangerous about kids. Seriously, it would be good to get more children into the hobby. Or else there isn't going to be a 40k anymore in 10-20 years. Kids are fun if you know how to interact with them. But if you think they are annoying, just ignore them.
Err, the primary reason people find children tiresome is you can't ignore them. They screech. They pester. They smear. They run around well below an adult's eyeline without regard for their own safety, but it's somehow your fault when they run into you.
My local GW when I was growing up was pretty firm - under 12s could be dumped on them on the Sunday newbie day or the Saturday late-afternoon big-giant-WAAAAGH game only, otherwise spawn were their parents' responsibility and they happily ejected anyone who tried to just let them off the leash, and the evening games during the week were 16 & over. I think that's a fair enough compromise - recruitment is important, but so is retention, and focusing exclusively on the former - especially if the pool is predominantly young children - will damage the latter.
All that said - this is a brilliant idea, and it's the only way GW's store chain is going to survive into the future: much, much fewer locations, with each being a big "destination" thing that people have a reason to travel to and locals have a reason to attend frequently. Frankly I'd cut their entire chain to a fifth the size it is now and consolidate those resources into stores like this everywhere, not just do a couple of one-offs in the US.
Iron_Captain wrote: Guys... There is nothing dangerous about kids. Seriously, it would be good to get more children into the hobby. Or else there isn't going to be a 40k anymore in 10-20 years. Kids are fun if you know how to interact with them. But if you think they are annoying, just ignore them.
My friend, I must respectfully disagree. To a certain extent.
It's very hard to ignore children doing certain things. The FLGS is not the ideal place to have your children if they're rough-housing, screaming, crying, etc. That's on the parent, not the kids. I don't 'hate' the kids or anything.
Like, there is a time and a place for everything. If your kids behave a certain way, you know it. It's YOUR job as a parent to know the appropriate place to bring your children, and it's very selfish to expect the staff and other customers to tolerate misbehaving children. And as horrible as it sounds, I understand that some children have various problems or issues, and they can't help but screech, have meltdowns, act out, etc. But it's still not something for the staff and other customers to just 'suck up' so you can play the game. The other people want to have fun, too- and if you know your children misbehave or become loud and obnoxious in places of business, then perhaps it is time to consider a babysitter or something similar.
I have to say, since I've been gaming I've seen the FLGS's ask several people to leave. I'd have to say about half of them are for a parent refusing to supervise and manage their children. And I don't mean the kids are being a minor annoyance- we have several children that play in my area. I mean, it's that typical manchild that brings his kids into a store, and the children do not have the capacity to behave in public due to either medical reasons or poor home training- and the adult simply refuses to put aside the game and deal with it like an adult with children.
And every time I've seen this, it's never been "You need to leave your kids at home", it's been "you need to leave, and you may return with your children when you can calm them down".
It's not the kids, really. It's just the fact that there's a lot of lousy parents that expect the rest of society to deal with their kids.
Agreed, it is 100% on the parent to make sure their kid behaves at a FLGS. Bothers me to no end when people think its the responsibility of others to deal with annoying kids or pets that don't act respectfully in public.
Kirasu wrote: Agreed, it is 100% on the parent to make sure their kid behaves at a FLGS. Bothers me to no end when people think its the responsibility of others to deal with annoying kids or pets that don't act respectfully in public.
Yes. And to get this on topic, I can honestly say I hope it doesn't become a day care...
... and to be fair, I think this means that the Cafe' owners will have to be a bit more reactive to the Great Unclean Ones that come into the stores. If you'll be selling food products, you can't have someone that hasn't discovered soap and deodorant shuffling about. And people tend not to want to ingest a coffee or a sandwich when you catch the scent of Mildew, Armpit, and Butthole.
I'm really hopeful that they "do it right" and put it in a location that can sustain it. I don't drink coffee so that aspect has no bearing on me, but....if they offer food and drink (that isn't coffee) it can only help to bolster the bottom line of the location.
If they're successful the probability of more locations seems to be high.
There is a new store opening up close to me that is in an old restaurant so maybe.....?
If it is on the west coast I will defineatly visit. If it's anywhere else I won't probably be stopping by (unless I'm in town). I'd rather save up $ for a trip to Nottingham.
This is pretty cool. It'll be interesting to see whether this is intended to be the one North American equivalent to Warhammer World in Nottingham, or the proof of concept for a second type of retail locations designed to make the hobby more accessible.
I could see a case for both, but I find the second option much more intriguing.
Aesthete wrote: This is pretty cool. It'll be interesting to see whether this is intended to be the one North American equivalent to Warhammer World in Nottingham, or the proof of concept for a second type of retail locations designed to make the hobby more accessible.
I could see a case for both, but I find the second option much more intriguing.
I hope its not an equivalent to warhammer world as that probably won't work in America. In the UK Games Workshop is way more of a known brand and company but in the US beyond the walls of Dakka or your FLGS no one has any idea about the hobby or cares to.
It would be great if they put it in St. Louis or Kansas City. 2 hour drive in either direction for me, and centrally located within the continental US.
ZergSmasher wrote: It would be great if they put it in St. Louis or Kansas City. 2 hour drive in either direction for me, and centrally located within the continental US.
Physically maybe, but not centrally located for the population of the United States. For that you need to come further east towards Cincinnati and Dayton Ohio..
ZergSmasher wrote: It would be great if they put it in St. Louis or Kansas City. 2 hour drive in either direction for me, and centrally located within the continental US.
Uh yeah that's not centrally located at all. Most of the population of the entire country lives in a collection of 5 states. If you want to put it where people actually live instead of the mid point of longitude and latitude you'd want to be on the NY-DC corridor or southern california. Although you'd want more than 1 of these stores unless you have a vast misunderstanding of the American population (specifically military populations or vets)
Chicago is where most international shipping goes first
Texas is texas with a gak of military people
Southern california has people + income (lots of navy and marines)
north east has lots of geeks with disposable income
Flordia+Georgia has a lot of people, money and tech as well (again lots of military)
matphat wrote: I heard something from a Warhammer store manager I know that leads me to believe that Memphis is the location.
That would be my guess. I just visited Warhammer World and it was very impressive but I doubt something like that would be possible without bring right at headquarters which both cuts rent costs and allows you to use existing staff to build displays etc.
I go to Warhammer World relatively regularly (it’s less than an hour away); tables are free and the food and beer is on par with a reasonable city centre pub in terms of price and quality, certainly not extortionate.
I would guess that they know that a single, big, US WHW equivalent wouldn’t work, as the market’s too spread out, but a few strategically placed mini versions with tables+eatery+shop with special stuff could do well.
matphat wrote: I heard something from a Warhammer store manager I know that leads me to believe that Memphis is the location.
That would be my guess. I just visited Warhammer World and it was very impressive but I doubt something like that would be possible without bring right at headquarters which both cuts rent costs and allows you to use existing staff to build displays etc.
I just feel like Memphis would be such a bad location. The population of all those surrounding states of the deep south combined can't compete against a single of the more populous states, not to mention the overall income levels or starbucks culture not being as welcomed.
For a HQ wanting cheap labor and cheap taxes? Sure, but for high income customers that can actually afford your hobby? So many better spots.
It's interesting to see they decided to launch their first café in the US.
Game shops that offer relatively similar things (game tables + food/drink) are already very common in the US, while still pretty rare in many European countries. There are many players in the US/in Canada, but the population density (and therefore player density) is quite low. It looks like they intend for people to travel from far away to go there (just like Warhammer world), and most people would indeed have to travel quite a lot to get there.
I suppose they consider that in Europe, people willing to travel a large distance for something like that would tend to go to Warhammer world, even if there was a smaller, somewhat similar thing closer (especially if said place is in a non-english speaking country).
I just hope it will be a success, and similar things would be implemented elsewhere.
The coffee will be free but you will need to pay for use of the cups and no outside cups will be allowed. The Primaris cups will be $30.
To access the game play table area you will need to let staff go through your miniatures to make sure they are GW models only. In addition, there will be a $5 per visit (all day pass) fee to use miniatures tables but this will be structured so you can pay for multiple visits at a reduced rate or a per month/year "membership" fee. The discounted payment structure will only work out for people who access the store 5+ times per month.
All the fanboys out there will lap it up like flies on dog crap!
Well, none of that is remotely true of any GW Store or Warhammer World. You even get a waiter service to your game board. Which is nice. And not only on Tournament/Event days, which is doubly nice.
Boards are free, but advised to book in advance if you want a specific one (their Apoc board is lovely).
Expectation is 'our house, our models', but never witnessed staffers enforcing it to the degree you claim, or indeed at all. Mind you, I've never seen anyone trying to deploy anything obviously non-GW.
But I guess people who enjoy a thing will continue to enjoy a thing. Specifically and solely to spite you, naturally.
Just Tony wrote: I wonder how they would feel about my brother and I coming there and playing 6th Ed. WFB?
Would probably depend on whoever the manager is there. In our GW store you can still play 8th if you want to, but our manager lets us manage ourselves and is why he has solid sales.
GW Cafe? Gamers drink beer and monster. If it is for moms, does GW really think they will really want to eat there just because it is a place to bring the kids? (I do not think moms really chow down at chuck e cheese)
I understand why GW would want to go into the market though. People who shop at starbucks readily pay much higher than market price for things.
Speak for yourself. I'm a tea and wine drinker. If it turns out to be a sort of cross with Bugman's and a well kept store, it could work very well. Pub style food with a large, open gaming area, could be a good place to waste an afternoon and evening.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So...will the coffee cost 5 times the normal price and take them 5 years to serve it to you, twice as long if you're a sisters player?
Tannhauser42 wrote:
Have you ever actually driven to Dallas? Just wanted to make sure your estimate of 6 hours is based on experience.
Many a time. It takes 6 - 6.5 hours to get from my hometown (Amarillo) to just about anywhere in DFW unless you get there at rush hour.
mononides wrote:
....Dallas......?
Corporate offices are already there, one of the largest gaming communities in the country, and DFW is the largest city in one of the most populous states. Also, the cost of living is significantly lower in Dallas than other cities of similar size in the country. That means operation costs will be lower.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
Totally agree.
The beer is well kept, the portions are plenty bordering on generous, the food is decent quality (certainly beyond most Pub Grub). Heck, they even cook the burgers to your liking.
This isn't 'hot water and instant coffee, charge a fiver'. This is legitimate fare they give a damn about.
Although if they do go the Starbucks route, they could introduce dumb names for different coffee sizes too. Primaris could be a large and Astartes for a small.
Chicago is where most international shipping goes first
Texas is texas with a gak of military people
Southern california has people + income (lots of navy and marines)
north east has lots of geeks with disposable income
Flordia+Georgia has a lot of people, money and tech as well (again lots of military)
Interesting. You reckon military folks are a significant section of GW's customer base in the US, significant enough that it should substantially affect GW decision making?
I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
That's actually one of my own biggest beefs, even as an adult, about dealing with gamers in general. I don't have kids so I can only imagine how frustrating it can be for parents.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
I'm a lucky fella, people here keep it civil even in heated moments in tournaments, etc... maybe because normally when we play the stores have many other customers that aren't into warhammer, and are playing MTG, or just painting, and theres normally girls and kids.
But I agree, I have gone to one of those "boys-club" stores and... no more. (And I say this as someone that couldn't be more offensive when its with his friends in private. But as adults we know how to behave in public spaces)
Thebiggesthat wrote:Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
Just don't go in the GW side of the shop, I've never seen staff drilled for the hard sale more than there, it's awful.
That's not the experience I had with the staff while I was there.
Tokhuah wrote:I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Maybe Im just lucky in that, I've never had such an experience or witnessed such a thing in any of the game stores I've been to, ever. Swearing is always at a minimum, and sexual talk is next to non-existent.
Also nice sweeping generalization of people's life experiences, projecting former issues much?
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
I feel your pain. Seems like there's a whole community of gamers that believe that FLGS should be some kind of safe space for 30 year old males of a certain racial line that don't like differences. Had games interrupted last monday by someone downstairs loudly elucidating why women should be banned from the hobby lest they infect us with their political correctness. I could see the woman manning the register just headdesk quietly.
There aren't many of them, but darn these guys are loud.
Pegasus Hobbies hired the loudest such man and put him in charge of their wargaming section. It's almost performance art at this point. most people probably assume he's being ironic.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
ChargerIIC wrote: I feel your pain. Seems like there's a whole community of gamers that believe that FLGS should be some kind of safe space for 30 year old males of a certain racial line that don't like differences. Had games interrupted last monday by someone downstairs loudly elucidating why women should be banned from the hobby lest they infect us with their political correctness. I could see the woman manning the register just headdesk quietly.
And everyone on the bus clapped
I hear about these things a lot. Yet in all my years of gaming in several cities across the United States, I've never seen this. And yes, I have doubts. And I almost believe in bigfoot. The nicest way I can say this is that I think you're both leaving out some significant facts, but I've been wrong before. Forgive me if I take what you say with a grain of salt, but believe me when I say that if these instances are as you say- then it says a lot about your gaming community not having the sack to deal with it.
I'll say this, and I don't really worry that it's offensive- I've seen two kinds of people complaining about this thing. Shrieking drama queen outrage fetishists say that gaming is 'hostile to women'. Noodle-armed, stinking, rude gooniebeards that are outright repulsive to the opposite sex complain that 'something' is running off the women (totally not them, though, right?). Meanwhile, every other well-adjusted adult (male, female, and whatever combo you feel like) are just enjoying the games and having fun regardless of our differences.
It's almost as if gaming communities are outright hostile to toxic people that aren't there to play games, but for more sinister purposes. I can honestly say that a lot of the people that come out claiming that gaming has made them feel 'unwelcome' are the exact sort of troublemakers I WANT to feel unwelcome.
Yes, there's pigs and pervs and bigots. If you're seeing this regularly, in truth, you probably need to stop rolling your eyes and nodding silently and DO something.
I complain about kids, primarily the ones that have selfish scumbag parents that don't do parenting, and get buttmad and expect the rest of the establishment to just tolerate it. The kids may not know better, but the 'parent' does. You don't take a mean-ass uncut pit bull to a dog park if he hasn't been properly socialized. I know it sounds awful to compare kids to dogs, but the whole 'you are responsible for the behavior and dealing with it' still stands.
oni wrote: $15.00 per hour minimum wage + absurd taxes = There's not a snowball's chance in hell this will be on the west coast.
My bet is Chicago or Baltimore / DC area. My luck however, it'll be Chicago. SOoo... Congratulations Chicago!
Thats what I was thinking i'm amused anyone think a place like this could last in the west coast...LA or California in general. It's too expensive here, in my time in LA i've seen numerous gaming stores close down. Only one left within driving distance now is the westminister place, which used to be a battle bunker and a good store...but now it's been downsized and communities have died off over time. I see no point in driving half an hour to get there to pay full price plus CA sales tax at the westminister store, screw that...ain't gonna happen. Not gonna pay that when there are half as many tables as there once were and specialist games aren't supported very well in store. I have nothing positive to say abouts GWs presence in los angeles.
"The Warhammer Cafe will also act as a hub for the Warhammer hobby in North America, hosting guests from the Design Studio..."
I'm betting this hints that it will be centralized and close to a major airport. This would also point towards Chicago as it's central and O'Hare is one the busiest airports in NA.
I suspect the first one will be close to an established GW location. The US is different than the UK in that many locations are not a 4 hour train ride away.
The first location will be an experiment that needs close monitoring...then expansion if successful.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
when was the last time you saw kids(someone more than likely less than 17 years old) hanging out in a starbucks or an actual coffee house? personally, never.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
when was the last time you saw kids(someone more than likely less than 17 years old) hanging out in a starbucks or an actual coffee house? personally, never.
GW isn't trying to open a coffee house chain and compete with Starbucks. You do understand that the Cafe will be a Warhammer store first, right? And those most certainly are for kids.
It's going to be a WHW-type hobby hub for North America...about time. I remember this being discussed 12-14 years ago but nothing happened. I'm guessing Chicago for locale due to the hobby base and geographic centricity. Dallas would be my second guess due to their quasi-HQ location there.
Also, I guess I could see the sense of them using their big empty space in Memphis. It's already bought and paid for, but who the hell goes...or wants to go...to Memphis?
Also, I guess I could see the sense of them using their big empty space in Memphis. It's already bought and paid for, but who the hell goes...or wants to go...to Memphis?
Well who the feth wants to go to Nottingham?
(sheepishly raises hand)
GW has an idea that their fans will walk across broken glass for their grimdark fix and they may not be wrong.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
ChargerIIC wrote: I feel your pain. Seems like there's a whole community of gamers that believe that FLGS should be some kind of safe space for 30 year old males of a certain racial line that don't like differences. Had games interrupted last monday by someone downstairs loudly elucidating why women should be banned from the hobby lest they infect us with their political correctness. I could see the woman manning the register just headdesk quietly.
And everyone on the bus clapped
I hear about these things a lot. Yet in all my years of gaming in several cities across the United States, I've never seen this. And yes, I have doubts. And I almost believe in bigfoot. The nicest way I can say this is that I think you're both leaving out some significant facts, but I've been wrong before. Forgive me if I take what you say with a grain of salt, but believe me when I say that if these instances are as you say- then it says a lot about your gaming community not having the sack to deal with it.
I'll say this, and I don't really worry that it's offensive- I've seen two kinds of people complaining about this thing. Shrieking drama queen outrage fetishists say that gaming is 'hostile to women'. Noodle-armed, stinking, rude gooniebeards that are outright repulsive to the opposite sex complain that 'something' is running off the women (totally not them, though, right?). Meanwhile, every other well-adjusted adult (male, female, and whatever combo you feel like) are just enjoying the games and having fun regardless of our differences.
It's almost as if gaming communities are outright hostile to toxic people that aren't there to play games, but for more sinister purposes. I can honestly say that a lot of the people that come out claiming that gaming has made them feel 'unwelcome' are the exact sort of troublemakers I WANT to feel unwelcome.
Yes, there's pigs and pervs and bigots. If you're seeing this regularly, in truth, you probably need to stop rolling your eyes and nodding silently and DO something.
I complain about kids, primarily the ones that have selfish scumbag parents that don't do parenting, and get buttmad and expect the rest of the establishment to just tolerate it. The kids may not know better, but the 'parent' does. You don't take a mean-ass uncut pit bull to a dog park if he hasn't been properly socialized. I know it sounds awful to compare kids to dogs, but the whole 'you are responsible for the behavior and dealing with it' still stands.
But we've sidetracked.
Siiiiigh..... I understand why you would doubt having not witnessed it personally, but to be fair it's not like it's an everyday constant occurrence in most game stores. I would anecdotally know having worked retail for nearly two decades half of that being in game stores. Let me tell you.....I have seen some dumb gak. Don't get me wrong, like 80%+ of the people I've encountered are perfectly well adjusted human beings and behave in a totally socially acceptable manner. Of the remaining lets just say 20% for the sake of ease of argument a good 19% of those people are just socially awkward and really just need someone to take them aside and tell them that some of their behaviors are inappropriate (looking at you guy who joins every conversation including personal ones or invades the personal space of everyone in the store) or just give them some good friendly advice on social skills as they seem to just lack experience with it.
However that last 1% or so......jesus christ they are exactly what people make them out to be, you can choose to believe some of my favorite examples or not...but they all happened.
Had to permanently ban a man in a frigging triby from the store walking up to a female customer who was minding her own business painting skaven, grabbing her by the hand and introducing himself by kissing her hand and saying M'lady (This is the one I most wish I made up.....god damn moment of stunned silence before I literally dragged him out and told him he was never welcome again in the store)
Had a guy walk up to a female customer was painting her Tyranid army that she'd lovingly converted into some kinda like candyland of bright colors, rainbows and sparkles and then painted it beautifully and tell her "That's pretty good for a girl" Meanwhile his 'army' is sitting there with a coat of the cheapest and most sloppily applied gold toll with the bare plastic showing through everywhere. (Her Tervigon was spitting out mutant cupcakes....it was awesome)
Asked a man to leave after he came into the store smelling like an open sewer pipe..... it was bad enough that one of the other employees gagged from over 15 feet away....I can not describe to you the smell....take the smell of a major out door concert's port-a-potty on a hot summers day and crank it up to 11 and maybe you'll have an idea.
Had to ban an 18 year old man after he lost in a tournament to a 12 year old because he tried to force the kid to follow him outside for a fight.
Had to ban a guy for constantly walking by a female customer one day and 'sniffing' her.
I've also heard the innumerable conversations about how women aren't real hobbyists, inappropriate sexual talk, invading the personal space of female customers, leering and all kinds of god damn behaviours that entirely reinforce why many potential female games have no interest in being anywhere near a game store. The ones I've worked in had strict policies in place to deal with this and I've given many a warning, kicked many an ass out and banned either permanently or for substantial amounts of time a fair few people. I've also been in stores that don't do this and in many cases they wind up being exactly that stereotype. So yeah, I'm glad you've not run into the issue yourself....but it unfortunately does happen.
Also, as a different side note..... the feeling of having to deal with a man who comes into a game store asking for company catalogs because he's legally required to use a text only browser and have no legal reason to boot him from your store as he spends hours 'browsing' is f***ing awful.
And if you don't why only being legally allowed to use a text only browser is a problem....think harder.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Hilarious. People call gamers "entitled", but we've got nothing on parents. Cinemas, restaurants, shops - there is no public venue they don't feel entitled to demand is made PG13 at all times just in case they decide to drag their sprogs in with them, no public activity they won't insist is theirs to ruin with squalling, smearing, hyperactive spawn that everyone else just has to put up with. There need to be many, many more places with "a hostile environment for families", and I've met plenty of women who'd agree wholeheartedly(but nice work there, trying to chuck in a sly backhand about gamers driving away women with their attitudes while implying that the primary considerations for a woman are keeping conversation chaste and ensuring a safe environment for children ).
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
After my deployment, I'm taking a trip to the UK. I'd like to see Warhammer World and confirm or refute everything I've heard, but I'd need something else to do in Nottingham. Pubs? Diners? Amusement? As I understand, it's not really worth the trip out there, but I haven't looked at transportation time and cost.
Orktavius wrote: Siiiiigh..... I understand why you would doubt having not witnessed it personally, but to be fair it's not like it's an everyday constant occurrence in most game stores. I would anecdotally know having worked retail for nearly two decades half of that being in game stores. Let me tell you.....I have seen some dumb gak. Don't get me wrong, like 80%+ of the people I've encountered are perfectly well adjusted human beings and behave in a totally socially acceptable manner. Of the remaining lets just say 20% for the sake of ease of argument a good 19% of those people are just socially awkward and really just need someone to take them aside and tell them that some of their behaviors are inappropriate (looking at you guy who joins every conversation including personal ones or invades the personal space of everyone in the store) or just give them some good friendly advice on social skills as they seem to just lack experience with it.
There's no shortage of socially maladjusted people in gaming, or any other social hobby/interest. 99% of my experience with the maladjusted is that they are, in fact, usually mentally ill or simply unaware of their social issues. Most of the time, you just tap them on the shoulder and tell them how they're causing an issue. It's generally the same approach to the guy that smells like armpit, feet, and butthole. Because it's usually the same guy.
Orktavius wrote: However that last 1% or so......jesus christ they are exactly what people make them out to be, you can choose to believe some of my favorite examples or not...but they all happened.
And yes, there's always the 1%. Don't get me wrong, they're annoying and awful. But they're 1%, and my personal opinion if 1% of your community is toxic and it's causing you significant grief- your community is full of wimps for letting 1% of it be scummy. It's hardly an epidemic, and the overwhelming majority of people complaining and screaming about how these terrible people are making gaming 'hostile' are looking for sympathy and not solutions. Never once have I seen a 'woe is me, pity me [link to patreon]' blogger, poster, or ranter provide names of the establishments that supposedly house these terrible cesspools of woman-hating neckbeards.
Orktavius wrote: Had to permanently ban a man in a frigging triby from the store walking up to a female customer who was minding her own business painting skaven, grabbing her by the hand and introducing himself by kissing her hand and saying M'lady (This is the one I most wish I made up.....god damn moment of stunned silence before I literally dragged him out and told him he was never welcome again in the store)
Was he trolling IRL, or did the cosmos align just right and you get a naturally occurring trillby-tipper? This is like finding a unicorn these days, I'm impressed. Based on this alone, you should have hurled a rock at him on the way out. THESE guys (half of them are feminists, half of them are pigs, all of them are incels that are waaaay too thirsty) are a blight.
Orktavius wrote: Had a guy walk up to a female customer was painting her Tyranid army that she'd lovingly converted into some kinda like candyland of bright colors, rainbows and sparkles and then painted it beautifully and tell her "That's pretty good for a girl" Meanwhile his 'army' is sitting there with a coat of the cheapest and most sloppily applied gold toll with the bare plastic showing through everywhere. (Her Tervigon was spitting out mutant cupcakes....it was awesome)
Well it sounds hilariously girlish, in the best way. 10/10 on creativity.
Orktavius wrote: Asked a man to leave after he came into the store smelling like an open sewer pipe..... it was bad enough that one of the other employees gagged from over 15 feet away....I can not describe to you the smell....take the smell of a major out door concert's port-a-potty on a hot summers day and crank it up to 11 and maybe you'll have an idea.
We had that guy come into my shop. Take the aforementioned porta-potty scent, but now it's a porta-potty on a FOB in Afghanistan. If you closed your eyes, you could almost see the penises drawn on the green wall... But these sorts are usually mentally ill, and I've no issue saying "Dude you need to go home and take a shower and change clothes before you come in. We're open until 10."
Orktavius wrote: Had to ban an 18 year old man after he lost in a tournament to a 12 year old because he tried to force the kid to follow him outside for a fight.
"Man"
Orktavius wrote: Had to ban a guy for constantly walking by a female customer one day and 'sniffing' her.
If she smelled like cookies, I'd forgive him. If he was just sniffing her, that's... probably some kind of moron. Good on you.
Orktavius wrote: I've also heard the innumerable conversations about how women aren't real hobbyists, inappropriate sexual talk, invading the personal space of female customers, leering and all kinds of god damn behaviours that entirely reinforce why many potential female games have no interest in being anywhere near a game store. The ones I've worked in had strict policies in place to deal with this and I've given many a warning, kicked many an ass out and banned either permanently or for substantial amounts of time a fair few people. I've also been in stores that don't do this and in many cases they wind up being exactly that stereotype. So yeah, I'm glad you've not run into the issue yourself....but it unfortunately does happen.
I've seen conversations why specific women aren't real hobbyists. And many times, they're right. Had a small group of girls, most of them late teens (oldest was 19, I believe?)- they did very little other than come in and hang out. Which was fine, until they started bringing in more friends and we had this mob of high school kids that were just there to sit at the tables and play on their phones. We had customers coming in to work on models and play games, then leave because the place was full of actual non-gamers. When the drama started (and it usually does with high school kids), we had to ask them to take their gathering elsewhere (as customers, I wasn't working there). Of course we got accused of not wanting female gamers around, but the owner and his spouse quickly debunked this by asking them what games they were playing and what they purchased... which was nothing.
But as far as the 'we don't want girls around' thing goes, I'll chock that up to being one of the urban legends. Just because one drama queen troublemaker has an issue, she likes to throw up the 'you just hate women!' thing. I don't tolerate a veteran creating a problem and shielding himself with 'you hate veterans', why would I tolerate it from some outrage-junkie?
Orktavius wrote: And if you don't why only being legally allowed to use a text only browser is a problem....think harder.
I know exactly why. I also like the fact that where I live, you can refuse service to anyone for any reason (but be prepared to reap the whirlwind if you're being a bigot about it). And we HAVE to look at the local registry for events when children are around. None of those individuals are welcome in the store to do anything other than purchase a product and leave.
Yodhrin wrote: Hilarious. People call gamers "entitled", but we've got nothing on parents. Cinemas, restaurants, shops - there is no public venue they don't feel entitled to demand is made PG13 at all times just in case they decide to drag their sprogs in with them, no public activity they won't insist is theirs to ruin with squalling, smearing, hyperactive spawn that everyone else just has to put up with. There need to be many, many more places with "a hostile environment for families", and I've met plenty of women who'd agree wholeheartedly(but nice work there, trying to chuck in a sly backhand about gamers driving away women with their attitudes while implying that the primary considerations for a woman are keeping conversation chaste and ensuring a safe environment for children ).
Concur, to a degree.
A few years ago there was a popular Wings & Beer place I would frequent on the weekend to 'reward' myself with a beer and wings. The patio allowed smoking, so that's where I'd sit with a cigar and a drink.
A woman shows up with a small squad of sprogs- one of them still a baby and it's screaming because, well, it's 10 PM. Plants down with her kids, and then proceeds to fan herself and mock a cough. Then, LOUDLY, she tells the server "Can you do something about that disgusting cigar over there? I have children".
"I sure can, ma'am." She then took their menus and directed them to the door to the inside area. The lady had a tantrum, took her children and left. I tipped that ballsy server girl at least $15.00.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
when was the last time you saw kids(someone more than likely less than 17 years old) hanging out in a starbucks or an actual coffee house? personally, never.
Don't move to the bay area. I've seen elementary age kids stop by on their way to school. They don't just haunt respectable places like the liqour stores we grew up with.
I agree with Adeptus Doritos, the problem of "Omg gamers hate women" is not that theres a significant amount that is like that.
The problem is that gamers (At least here in Spain, maybe as in USA many gamers are ex-militaries its different), when confronted with the rare dude that is just a pig, don't have the balls to call him out for that.
But I think thats changing, "nerds" arent those dungeon dwellers from the 80's anymore that don't know how to talk to girls. When I go to a store I see everything, from well formed adults to "cool" teenagers, etc... people that know how to andle social interactions. People that can comfront a toxic (And I'm using toxic here in the correct and non political based way) individual.
Well, and lets not make of this a "nerd" problem. Has anyone entered a sport-bet bar? THOSE are unwelcoming enviroments.
A few years ago there was a popular Wings & Beer place I would frequent on the weekend to 'reward' myself with a beer and wings. The patio allowed smoking, so that's where I'd sit with a cigar and a drink.
A woman shows up with a small squad of sprogs- one of them still a baby and it's screaming because, well, it's 10 PM. Plants down with her kids, and then proceeds to fan herself and mock a cough. Then, LOUDLY, she tells the server "Can you do something about that disgusting cigar over there? I have children".
"I sure can, ma'am." She then took their menus and directed them to the door to the inside area. The lady had a tantrum, took her children and left. I tipped that ballsy server girl at least $15.00.
Hoo man, those gits. If there's one thing I don't miss about smoking, it's having to deal with people like that - I had one such parent go nutso at me for smoking a cigarette outside on a bridge in Edinburgh, Scotland on a windy day, while entirely downwind of them and over 10 feet away. Like, so windy you couldn't even see the smoke I was exhaling it was being whipped away so fast; Edinburgh windy. But yeah, stuff like that is what I'm on about.
Now, if you go into a venue that explicitly caters to families, rather than a place that simply allows families to enter along with everyone else on the planet, you absolutely have an obligation to behave in a certain way, otherwise people chucking a hissy over swear words or adult humour because it might offend the ears of their kiddiewinks need to hire a babysitter.
Even if tobacco smoke triggers problems for me, even I know not to go to a smoke friendly establishment and try to force them to go smokeless. Bit daft and rude for what the clientele already expect.
The only times I have ask a smoker to stop smoking in a polite manner is when we are waiting the bus in a bus stop, full of people, crowded because is raining. But normally I just try to put myself as separated as possible from the individual that is smoking.
And yeah, I go to smoke-free places. I wouldn't enter one were smoke is allowed to tell them to stop doing it.
This line of discussion is not really news or rumors or discussion of news or rumors. Maybe general talk about bad gamer behavior or kids in gaming stores or smoking should not be in a news and rumor thread.
Galas wrote: I agree with Adeptus Doritos, the problem of "Omg gamers hate women" is not that theres a significant amount that is like that.
The problem is that gamers (At least here in Spain, maybe as in USA many gamers are ex-militaries its different), when confronted with the rare dude that is just a pig, don't have the balls to call him out for that.
The issue at hand is, if I go into a place and start acting like a jerk... people are going to get back in my face, run me out, or shun me. If I say, "gamers hate veterans", it's not really true. That seems to be what happens, and I call it 'shielding'.
And yes, it's difficult to find a FLGS full of veterans and active guys and find someone being an outright pig. Chances are, you're mouthing off to a vet's daughter or spouse... and you might have a difficult time and a significantly life-altering emotional event. If anything, in all the veteran-saturated places I've gamed people tend to be overprotective and extremely polite to the ladies- to a point where I've seen 40-something gamers call a 19 year old 'ma'am' every time she addressed him. But then again, the ladies we play with tend to not be such a delicate sort and can talk trash and throw down in a game better than a lot of the dudes (and they usually paint better).
Galas wrote: But I think thats changing, "nerds" arent those dungeon dwellers from the 80's anymore that don't know how to talk to girls.
This, exactly this. And the thing is, the whole "You're a loser basement-dwelling virgin" thing was a dead and disproven stereotype in the early 90's. The people who resort to that statement as the go-to insult make me question their credibility. If you think nerds are basement-dwelling loser virgins, then you're apparently not doing much social gaming.
Now, to the actual topic of the thread, because like this guy said:
Albino Squirrel wrote: This line of discussion in not really new or rumors or discussion of news or rumors. Maybe general talk about bad gamer behavior or kids in gaming stores or smoking should not be in a news and rumor thread.
And even though he's not an authority at all, he's still right. Even though I'm not finding his contributions to the discussion.
So I can merge this topic into the one at hand.
The problem I'm concerned with is that this cafe' may become a kid dumping ground. In the area where I grew up, anything that was 'kid-friendly' tended to be where parents dumped off their teens at noon and picked up late at night. The mall, any arcade/gaming/recreation centers, comic shops, bookstores, etc. This doesn't sound like a big deal at face value, but it does deter some people. I mean, all of our gaming stores in this area don't carry Yu-Gi-Oh because it brought in too many teenagers... and merch would vanish, models were getting snagged up, and it's actually a lot easier to deal with a troublesome adult than it is a troublesome teenager that goes crying to a parent that thinks their baby is an innocent little angel.
On the other hand, some of the kids that come into our FLGS have loaded parents and I've seen a kid walk in with his mom and she spent nearly $700.00 on 40k stuff for him like it was pocket change. The teenagers that we want to come in are usually pretty well-behaved, the only issues we've had is when they bring in friends and those friends bring in friends and they don't really do anything but take up table space.
Teens will gravitate to anything that will host them, and while I HOPE this brings about new gamers... I certainly hope the location they choose is chosen wisely. If it's anything like where they place some FLGS and even Games Workshop stores in the US... well, it's not going to work well. In some cities I've been to or lived in, I didn't go to the FLGS after dark. Contrary to all you non-US people hear about the country, the entire place isn't a war zone with guns going off everywhere. There's more problems in the major metropolis cities, and you do your best to avoid the problem areas if you can. Sadly, a lot of stores end up right in or right beside the scummiest areas. No one wants to bring a family there.
I do, however, hope they have a massive beast of a coffee- an obscenely large quantity with like 5 shots of espresso in it. Name this sucker the 'Necron Awakening' or 'The Emperor's Choice' and you've got my business.
Hell, we REALLY need to start thinking of creative coffee drink names...
White Chocolate Moritat
Tau Latte'
Impericano
Exterminatus Espresso
Tallarn blend
I wouldn't worry about that too much. I mean warhammer world is generally known as a cool place for gamers and its been running the same model for years.
ChargerIIC wrote: I wouldn't worry about that too much. I mean warhammer world is generally known as a cool place for gamers and its been running the same model for years.
Yeah. But Warhammer World isn't on Thug Street in Big-City USA.
Eventually, Trailer Park Ted and Ghetto Gary are going to see how much maniacs like us spend on this hobby and realize that it's a good place to go and roll up some nerds and take their stuff and cash.
And I only say that because generally speaking, Trailer Park Ted and Ghetto Gary don't think too much. They're criminal predators and that's how they roll. If they were thinking people, they'd see how much we spend on little plastic war toys and come to the conclusion that we are completely out of our minds and realize that it's a bad idea to mess with people this unhinged.
Eventually, Trailer Park Ted and Ghetto Gary are going to see how much maniacs like us spend on this hobby and realize that it's a good place to go and roll up some nerds and take their stuff and cash.
And I only say that because generally speaking, Trailer Park Ted and Ghetto Gary don't think too much. They're criminal predators and that's how they roll. If they were thinking people, they'd see how much we spend on little plastic war toys and come to the conclusion that we are completely out of our minds and realize that it's a bad idea to mess with people this unhinged.
I'm not sure they're even that smart. plus my ccw will take care of them.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
when was the last time you saw kids(someone more than likely less than 17 years old) hanging out in a starbucks or an actual coffee house? personally, never.
Don't move to the bay area. I've seen elementary age kids stop by on their way to school. They don't just haunt respectable places like the liqour stores we grew up with.
I am from the beach cities of southern california, literally a block from the ocean, walking distance. ^ this isnt a thing here
shinros wrote: The coffee should have great names. This is a perfect opportunity!
Look, son, you ain't even worth a damn unless you can drink an EXTERMINATUS.
Fun fact, "Green Beans" is a coffee shop on military bases. They have a 'MOAC' (similar in name to the MOAB).
Mother Of All Coffees.
They as, "Are you sure, sir?" when they serve you this 5-shots of espresso bladder-busting monstrosity that will have you so awake you will smell the color of dead terrorists.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
After my deployment, I'm taking a trip to the UK. I'd like to see Warhammer World and confirm or refute everything I've heard, but I'd need something else to do in Nottingham. Pubs? Diners? Amusement? As I understand, it's not really worth the trip out there, but I haven't looked at transportation time and cost.
For what it's worth I was just there. It was about 50UKP round trip and 2 hours each way from London. I left London around 10am, came back after 8pm. So if it's a one day trip Warhammer World could easily take the whole time there. Besides the shops there's a nice display area (7UKP to enter) and Bugmans for food and refreshments.
There are a few other gaming Meccas there, Mantic has a store, as does Wargames Foundry, check the Store Locator. I didn't get to either but they could be worth building in to your trip.
Downtown is under redevelopment which meant almost everything was closed around the station. But there's a castle and museum nearby (10~15 minute walk) and a nice High Street shopping area. But by 6pm almost everything was closed.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
After my deployment, I'm taking a trip to the UK. I'd like to see Warhammer World and confirm or refute everything I've heard, but I'd need something else to do in Nottingham. Pubs? Diners? Amusement? As I understand, it's not really worth the trip out there, but I haven't looked at transportation time and cost.
For what it's worth I was just there. It was about 50UKP round trip and 2 hours each way from London. I left London around 10am, came back after 8pm. So if it's a one day trip Warhammer World could easily take the whole time there. Besides the shops there's a nice display area (7UKP to enter) and Bugmans for food and refreshments.
There are a few other gaming Meccas there, Mantic has a store, as does Wargames Foundry, check the Store Locator. I didn't get to either but they could be worth building in to your trip.
Downtown is under redevelopment which meant almost everything was closed around the station. But there's a castle and museum nearby (10~15 minute walk) and a nice High Street shopping area. But by 6pm almost everything was closed.
Unfortunately for us, only abut 5% (total guess) of our country is within a 2 hour trip. If they did Memphis I'd visit it. Any of the other likely locations, probably wouldn't happen. California for me is just as far away as Nottingham for all intents and purposes.
Tokhuah wrote: I cannot believe people complain about kids in this thread. The real issue is misanthropic ADULT gamers who think it is cool to swear and talk about sexual stuff they have never experienced while gaming. My wife and kid went into a GW store with me once and were disgusted at the so-called adults. It was literally a hostile environment for families. The positive take-away was that my wife came to a better understanding why gamer culture is generally girlfriend challenged.
Kids can be a handful. But it tends to be some of the adult clientele that are the object lessons for why I'd never want to own a game store. And yeah, I had girlfriends give me the "I want to leave NOW" look in certain stores. Now, my wife generally avoids going in them, but most of the places I frequent these days are a little friendlier, I think.
I'm sure the Cafe will be a friendly place for all ages.
when was the last time you saw kids(someone more than likely less than 17 years old) hanging out in a starbucks or an actual coffee house? personally, never.
Don't move to the bay area. I've seen elementary age kids stop by on their way to school. They don't just haunt respectable places like the liqour stores we grew up with.
I am from the beach cities of southern california, literally a block from the ocean, walking distance. ^ this isnt a thing here
Well i'm guessing he was taking about the bay area. Speaking as a person who lives in the bay area and works at a Starbucks I can say kids and teenagers do hang out in and outside the store. But most of the time their a small group of around 2 to 5 of them and don't cause much trouble for the customers.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
After my deployment, I'm taking a trip to the UK. I'd like to see Warhammer World and confirm or refute everything I've heard, but I'd need something else to do in Nottingham. Pubs? Diners? Amusement? As I understand, it's not really worth the trip out there, but I haven't looked at transportation time and cost.
For what it's worth I was just there. It was about 50UKP round trip and 2 hours each way from London. I left London around 10am, came back after 8pm. So if it's a one day trip Warhammer World could easily take the whole time there. Besides the shops there's a nice display area (7UKP to enter) and Bugmans for food and refreshments.
There are a few other gaming Meccas there, Mantic has a store, as does Wargames Foundry, check the Store Locator. I didn't get to either but they could be worth building in to your trip.
Downtown is under redevelopment which meant almost everything was closed around the station. But there's a castle and museum nearby (10~15 minute walk) and a nice High Street shopping area. But by 6pm almost everything was closed.
Did you miss the National Video Game Museum??
I loves Nottinghams, me. If I could remote work, I'd be there in a shot.
Also, Station recently had a major refit, followed by an equally major fire!
Thebiggesthat wrote: Anyone making comment on the prices should take a trip down if they can, you'll be very surprised.
Just don't go in the GW side of the shop, I've never seen staff drilled for the hard sale more than there, it's awful.
Am I missing something? AFAIK There's literally one entrance into Warhammer World and you have to go through the GW store.
There used to be a direct door into Bugmans, behind the toilets, I think it allowed the bar to stay open longer than the gaming hall.
But then, I haven't been in since the refurb was in progress. It wouldn't surprise me if they've changed it so you need to go in via the store, since the opening hours became a lot more store-like than bar-like.
They ask, "Are you sure, sir?" when they serve you this 5-shots of espresso bladder-busting monstrosity that will have you so awake you will smell the color of dead terrorists.
We’ve got a quick update for you today on the Warhammer Cafe.
Since we announced the Cafe last week, we’ve been inundated with emails and Facebook messages asking us where exactly this great new Warhammer venue will be making its home. Well, you need wonder no longer.
The Warhammer Cafe will be located in Grapevine, Texas.
We thought long and hard about where to open the first Warhammer Cafe, and Grapevine ticked a lot of boxes. For one, there’s a fantastic Warhammer community already in Texas, and we thought they could make great use of a hub for their hobby activity. For another, Grapevine is superbly connected to the rest of Texas – particularly Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth – and indeed, most importantly, to the rest of North America, thanks to the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. Chances are, wherever you are in the United States, you’ll only be a short hop away.
Next up, we need an exceptional manager to run the venue – and the hunt begins today! If you think you’ve got what it takes to run the greatest Warhammer venue in all of North America, then check out the ad and drop us an application.
Wow, do they not have a clue about scale. "A short hop away"? What? Is it even near any destination spot that determined GW fans can use as a pretext for a trip to Texas?
Also, as a Californian, the name "Grapevine" kicks in my fight-or-flight nerves and breaks me into a cold sweat.
It's right next to DFW Airport, so there's that. And it's central to the metroplex, so it works locally too. I'm sure more than location came into the decision though.
is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less. (But at the same time USA is bigger than Europe so yeah, probably I'm lookin at that map with the wrong scale-glasses )
It seems like a sensible choice. If they put it in La or new York it would be a considerable journey for those on the other coast, and as someone who is used to 12 hour flights, 3 or 4 hours does seem like a short hop. Grapevine is probably a pretty cheap place to go too. If this is successful they can add another on each coast and a fourth in Chicago. That would have America pretty well covered.
Now they just need to open a cafe in Japan.
Whumbachumba wrote: It's right next to DFW Airport, so there's that. And it's central to the metroplex, so it works locally too. I'm sure more than location came into the decision though.
Are there any famous museums, amusement parks or national monuments within an hours' drive?
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less.
'Middle of the U.S.' doesn't mean much when a large potion of the population is located on either coast. It would be better centrally located to the largest portion of the population as possible, and that's about a thousand miles to the northeast.
Whumbachumba wrote: It's right next to DFW Airport, so there's that. And it's central to the metroplex, so it works locally too. I'm sure more than location came into the decision though.
Are there any famous museums, amusement parks or national monuments within an hours' drive?
Could we game in the basement of the Alamo?
Six Flags over Texas in Arlington. Perot, Nasher, Dallas Museum of Art, Kimbell, and more. Then there is all of downtown Ft. Worth and Dallas, with places like Dealey Plaza and the 6th Floor Museum to visit. Most of these places are within an hour with normal traffic.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less. (But at the same time USA is bigger than Europe so yeah, probably I'm lookin at that map with the wrong scale-glasses )
Well, as an example for me that'd be about a 4 hour flight ranging in about $200, or a 32 hour drive from Seattle, WA. So... yeah, not gonna happen since I'm not making that much of a trip for just that. A lot of non-US folks don't understand just how damn big this place is.
Whumbachumba wrote: It's right next to DFW Airport, so there's that. And it's central to the metroplex, so it works locally too. I'm sure more than location came into the decision though.
Are there any famous museums, amusement parks or national monuments within an hours' drive?
Could we game in the basement of the Alamo?
Six Flags over Texas in Arlington. Perot, Nasher, Dallas Museum of Art, Kimbell, and more. Then there is all of downtown Ft. Worth and Dallas, with places like Dealey Plaza and the 6th Floor Museum to visit. Most of these places are within an hour with normal traffic.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less.
'Middle of the U.S.' doesn't mean much when a large potion of the population is located on either coast. It would be better centrally located to the largest portion of the population as possible, and that's about a thousand miles to the northeast.
Which means that the other Coast has to fly much farther across the states to reach this place.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less.
'Middle of the U.S.' doesn't mean much when a large potion of the population is located on either coast. It would be better centrally located to the largest portion of the population as possible, and that's about a thousand miles to the northeast.
Which means that the other Coast has to fly much farther across the states to reach this place.
I'm not sure that makes much of a difference. Once a plane flight becomes a necessity, does the distance really matter? I would honestly prefer to have to fly all the way to the other coast than have a shorter flight to an area I could never convince my wife to visit. It's not like most people can afford the time or money to fly out to visit Warhammer Cafe at all, anyway.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less.
'Middle of the U.S.' doesn't mean much when a large potion of the population is located on either coast. It would be better centrally located to the largest portion of the population as possible, and that's about a thousand miles to the northeast.
Which means that the other Coast has to fly much farther across the states to reach this place.
Never said it was perfect, it just happens that is where it would be within a one day drive (11 hours) of the largest portion of the U.S. population (approximately 50%). Ideally the U.S. needs at least two, one centrally located for the majority of the East Coast and Midwest and one for the West Coast.
w00t!
I live in Fort Worth, so Grapevine is an easy place to go for me. I wonder where in Grapevine they'll put it. They used to have a store in Grapevine Mills Mall that did well, until GW inexplicably decided to pull their stores out of all high-traffic areas. It'll probably be somewhere close by to there, with all the other shops and hotels like the Gaylord and Great Wolf Lodge. If they plop it in the mall itself, I hope they install an outside entrance so it can stay open beyond when the mall closes.
Hopefully it will have more than just coffee and snacks. If they go all in and make it like Bugman's and make it a bar and grill, it could do even better. But, I can see problems with trying to have a games store that also serves alcohol on the side. Problems with the permits, licenses, and parents who think a game store is a place to dump their children but ohmygodthedevil'sbrewisservedthere.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less.
'Middle of the U.S.' doesn't mean much when a large potion of the population is located on either coast. It would be better centrally located to the largest portion of the population as possible, and that's about a thousand miles to the northeast.
Which means that the other Coast has to fly much farther across the states to reach this place.
Never said it was perfect, it just happens that is where it would be within a one day drive (11 hours) of the largest portion of the U.S. population (approximately 50%). Ideally the U.S. needs at least two, one centrally located for the majority of the East Coast and Midwest and one for the West Coast.
A better question is what percentage of the population within area's actually purchases GW products.
Dallas area is fine. It's one of the largest metros in the country in a large high population multi-metro state. Dallas area has quite a bit to do and it's a day trip to several neat things from the Dallas area. And of the 4 most likely locations (DC Area, LA area, Chicago area, and Dallas) it's by far the best cost wise, travel wise, wage wise, and has the added benefit of being near their HQ.
I expect a Chicago one at some point along with an east and west coast one. I expect the middle of the country to get them first just due to how well their stores used to do in those areas as well as the cost to benefit ratios they provide.
Hulksmash wrote: Dallas area is fine. It's one of the largest metros in the country in a large high population multi-metro state. Dallas area has quite a bit to do and it's a day trip to several neat things from the Dallas area. And of the 4 most likely locations (DC Area, LA area, Chicago area, and Dallas) it's by far the best cost wise, travel wise, wage wise, and has the added benefit of being near their HQ.
I expect a Chicago one at some point along with an east and west coast one. I expect the middle of the country to get them first just due to how well their stores used to do in those areas as well as the cost to benefit ratios they provide.
All good points. probably the cheapest real estate they could get near a major international airport hub. Same goes for wages I would imagine. Flights in and out would be relatively cheap for most, as it is a major layover/connection hub and is fairly centrally located.
For anyone who is into FFGRPGs, Star Wars in particular, GamerNationCon is held near the Dallas/Ft. Worth area (Plano, IIRC) every Feb/March (I think they are on number 4 or 5 now?). It is put on by the nice folks over at the Order 66 Podcast... For me, at least, this would be an incentive to make the trip (once the Cafe is established, of course) and hit both in the same weekend...
We’ve got a quick update for you today on the Warhammer Cafe.
Since we announced the Cafe last week, we’ve been inundated with emails and Facebook messages asking us where exactly this great new Warhammer venue will be making its home. Well, you need wonder no longer.
The Warhammer Cafe will be located in Grapevine, Texas.
We thought long and hard about where to open the first Warhammer Cafe, and Grapevine ticked a lot of boxes. For one, there’s a fantastic Warhammer community already in Texas, and we thought they could make great use of a hub for their hobby activity. For another, Grapevine is superbly connected to the rest of Texas – particularly Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth – and indeed, most importantly, to the rest of North America, thanks to the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. Chances are, wherever you are in the United States, you’ll only be a short hop away.
Next up, we need an exceptional manager to run the venue – and the hunt begins today! If you think you’ve got what it takes to run the greatest Warhammer venue in all of North America, then check out the ad and drop us an application.
When you take over a new operation in Dallas this week 10 min from Grapevine. WIN
Whumbachumba wrote: It's right next to DFW Airport, so there's that. And it's central to the metroplex, so it works locally too. I'm sure more than location came into the decision though.
Are there any famous museums, amusement parks or national monuments within an hours' drive?
Could we game in the basement of the Alamo?
There are 1000's of use for corn, all of which I'll go over right now!
Dallas / Ft. Worth is a major hub. Close to command and control US to monitor and large enough to support a location.
With that said, how many people will fly there?
It's not a day trip. So you have to commit to a weekend meaning flight + hotel + food + other costs. It's like going to a convention if you do not live within a 100 miles.
We’ve got a quick update for you today on the Warhammer Cafe.
Since we announced the Cafe last week, we’ve been inundated with emails and Facebook messages asking us where exactly this great new Warhammer venue will be making its home. Well, you need wonder no longer.
The Warhammer Cafe will be located in Grapevine, Texas.
We thought long and hard about where to open the first Warhammer Cafe, and Grapevine ticked a lot of boxes. For one, there’s a fantastic Warhammer community already in Texas, and we thought they could make great use of a hub for their hobby activity. For another, Grapevine is superbly connected to the rest of Texas – particularly Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth – and indeed, most importantly, to the rest of North America, thanks to the Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. Chances are, wherever you are in the United States, you’ll only be a short hop away.
Next up, we need an exceptional manager to run the venue – and the hunt begins today! If you think you’ve got what it takes to run the greatest Warhammer venue in all of North America, then check out the ad and drop us an application.
#Winning
Of course it's Texas, is there really any other choice?
That's about a 30 min drive depending on traffic, so I can get behind it!
Why, I could pop across, visit the Cafe, shoot JR, all in time to wake up in the shower and find the whole adventure was a dream!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I’m now particularly intrigued to see what it looks like.
I mean, Warhammer World is a decent enough place to visit. But this is of course intriguingly monickered ‘cafe’.
That it’ll have gaming facilities of some kind seems a given. But will it be a hall capable of holding Tournament finals in? Or are they ceding that to the ‘private sector’, given the sheer scale of things like the Las Vegas Open?
Not surprised with this choice.
Any one place would truly be no better than any other.
Been trying to explain to GW-UK (Studio yes but especially Office staff) for over 20 years how large the USA is, let alone North America & what a completely different market it is and have failed in every attempt.
Seriously, GW collectively has not a clue.
GWHQ is in a country (UK) that is:
1) geographically smaller than the State of Nevada;
2) that has better and less expensive public transportation for the whole country than any specific locale anywhere in North America, let alone any whole nation here;
3) has only 20% of the population of the US, but with a population density three times that of the US;
4) has only 23% of the possible entertainment alternatives if you include all choices and availabilities at all income levels than here in the US.
I am sure there are other sharp contrasts that affect sales of games and toy soldiers, let alone wargaming as a hobby, but these are the ones I have been trying to get them to understand for over two decades.
AND I HAVE FAILED EPICLY!!!
Oh well.
Congratulations to the Texans!
You will have 80+% of the fun at this cafe while it lasts.
That is simply from the sheer expense that most Americans will have to put out just to get to this location, let alone do and/or buy anything while present.
On a side note, any bets on how long this Warhammer Cafe idea will last in the US?
I say less than ten years at best; most likely less than five.
Even if you have five on these W-Cafes (TX, CA, IL, NY, FL), the sheer cost it will take for most folks to get to these sites will make the trip prohibitive thereby the W-cafe experiment will die.
W-Cafe is a nice concept, but it just is not workable within such a large land mass with such a low population density that has such expensive AND so little public transportation.
Take a look at the job listing to manage the place: https://jobs.games-workshop.com/2018/02/07/warhammer-cafe-general-manager-grapevine-tx/ They are only planning on it being 4,000 sq ft!!! Do you realize how small of a venue that is?!? What is the place actually going to be able to have in that little room that will make a gamer want to spend all that money to get there in the first place?!?
Why, I could pop across, visit the Cafe, shoot JR, all in time to wake up in the shower and find the whole adventure was a dream!
Yikes.
That's one hell of a "How do?" dated reference there...
Anyway, this is almost certainly a 'Proof of Concept", and I hope that they place it in the right area so that if it tanks, they didn't unintentionally skew the data.
4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.
I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.
I hope that it gets bigger and that actual warhammer world style events get held there. I am not going to be making the travel to Dallas for a warhammer game but if it gets big enough maybe in 20-30 years when I'm retired and hobbling around on a cane they'll put one out closer to me
Mymearan wrote: Yeah that's about 400 m2, so say 20x20 meters... not very big!
Sorry, more like 1150m2.
I may be off by a bit also, but 400 is definitely too little.
If you are going to take your time to correct someone online you should make sure that you are actually correct 4000 square feet is roughly 400 square meter (371 to be exact).
Why, I could pop across, visit the Cafe, shoot JR, all in time to wake up in the shower and find the whole adventure was a dream!
Yikes.
That's one hell of a "How do?" dated reference there...
Anyway, this is almost certainly a 'Proof of Concept", and I hope that they place it in the right area so that if it tanks, they didn't unintentionally skew the data.
Or indeed skewed the other way with an overly cherry picked spot!
Likely a proof of concept. If it can stand on it's own two feet, I'd expect others to start popping up in the US.
Yep. Not sure how many they would do, but there's plenty of players in the Chicago area, Bay Area (CA), and East Coast. I wouldn't expect one in every state, but those four could possibly do well.
I still am not 100% sure what this place will be, though. A Game store that sells coffee? Some Sandwhiches? Perhaps an over-simplification, but that isn't exactly rocket surgery. Just need to tack a food licence onto your game store and meet health standards.
Flights don't seem to bad, actually. I checked flights from NY airports (Westchester and Laguardia), and in April at least, on a weekend, they're $190-230 for a round trip ticket. Honestly, that's not too shabby!
Honestly, if this is successful, I hope they pop one up in NYC next. Then again, the cost to do so would probably be HUGE. They'd honestly be better off even moving their NYC store (just due to cost, mind you) into like the Westchester area; still close and accessible, but not as costly. Then again, less transportation to it (except good old fashioned cars!), so what do I know.
Looks like GW used the same logic I did. A 6-hr drive to a major event would be more than worth it! For those that a curious, Dallas-Fort Worth is the fourth largest metropolitan area in the US. Texas is the second largest state by population (as well as land area if that matters). Dallas-Fort Worth also has one of the largest wargaming communities in the country. DFW International Airport is the fourth busiest airport in the US (though if Southwest is available in your area, I'd use them. Dallas-Love Field is their hub, and fights are usually very affordable). Seems like a good spot to me.
Hulksmash wrote: 4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.
I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.
Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.
Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.
You mean congratulations to people in the DFW area. You seem to be having an issue with underestimating the size of Texas as well. That's a 4 hour drive from Houston.
Damn. it'd be cheaper to fly to london than to fly to Grapevine, Texas. It's not even close to any of the major W40k scenes outside of maybe the Dallas one.
You mean congratulations to people in the DFW area. You seem to be having an issue with underestimating the size of Texas as well. That's a 4 hour drive from Houston.
I did a 2 hour ride to go to a regional 1 day- 3 game tournament without leaving Galicia. 4 hours is nothing! (If the event is big enough of course)
ChargerIIC wrote: Damn. it'd be cheaper to fly to london than to fly to Grapevine, Texas. It's not even close to any of the major W40k scenes outside of maybe the Dallas one.
From where? Honest question because I've never flown to DFW for more than $300 and I've never made it to europe for less than $700.
Hulksmash wrote: 4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.
I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.
Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.
Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.
Yeah, I think the size strongly points to what this is intended to be -- a really nice Battle Bunker store with some food and drink, and not a U.S.-based Warhammer World with a gaming hall and Bugman's. Which is probably why the thing is called a cafe and not WW-US, lol.
I'm sure GW would *love* to have people flying in from all over the country to see it, but that's not going to happen, and this still looks to me like a test of a concept that could be applied in other major metro areas. Larger metro destination stores/hubs are actually what some of us in the U.S. have been calling for ever since they went to the one-person concept. If it works out, I think it's a really good thing and better approach for the U.S. market.
Hulksmash wrote: 4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.
I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.
Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.
Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.
Yeah, I think the size strongly points to what this is intended to be -- a really nice Battle Bunker store with some food and drink, and not a U.S.-based Warhammer World with a gaming hall and Bugman's. Which is probably why the thing is called a cafe and not WW-US, lol.
I'm sure GW would *love* to have people flying in from all over the country to see it, but that's not going to happen, and this still looks to me like a test of a concept that could be applied in other major metro areas. Larger metro destination stores/hubs are actually what some of us in the U.S. have been calling for ever since they went to the one-person concept. If it works out, I think it's a really good thing and better approach for the U.S. market.
Exactly!
I was hoping for a Warhammer World US, but it looks like it will be a slightly bigger GWUS store that sells...snacks and drinks? Maybe?
I don't think many people are going to travel any significant distance for that.
I mean, FFG has a store that is essentially a full cafe/store/gaming area here in MN. And without the back game room (a huge event area) area it's probably about 8000sf. Considering you could halve the "store area" pretty easy if it's just GW and cut a bit of the gaming space (which is still more sf currently than the old battle bunkers) and you can fit quite a bit in 4k sf.
A lot depends on how they handle the cafe. FFG is a full mini diner essentially with a full menu and beer options. So if FFG can do it I think GW could probably manage.
Either way I'll drop buy the next time I'm in Dallas seeing family to check it out once it's open.
You guys are all crazy. 4000 square feet is bloody massive. You could fit my house into it 7 times! If the venue has two floors you could comfortably fit in 40 or so gaming tables. Plenty of space for medium sized events.
As has been said, they are not trying to make warhammer world 2 or trying to compete with the Lvo and adepticon venues. This is just a cafe with a smallish event space.
In fact if you look at last year gw attended Lvo, (West coastish), Adepticon (north) and Nova (east).
If they have a small open day in the south (100 or so tickets), they will give the opportunity for people from most of America a chance to attend gw seminars and meet the team.
Galas wrote: is that a good place? At least it seems is on the middle of USA. More or less. (But at the same time USA is bigger than Europe so yeah, probably I'm lookin at that map with the wrong scale-glasses )
Lol, probably. Texas is bigger than every European country outside of the former USSR.
Unless your version of a casual small road trip entails at a minimum driving from Madrid to Paris and back, it's pretty much out of reach for anyone outside of the state without making a full weekend vacation out of it. That said.. I suspect it'll get a steady trickle of destination traffic especially if there is a local convention going on. BOLScon iirc is in Texas.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
timetowaste85 wrote: Flights don't seem to bad, actually. I checked flights from NY airports (Westchester and Laguardia), and in April at least, on a weekend, they're $190-230 for a round trip ticket. Honestly, that's not too shabby!
For baseball fans, the Texas Rangers also just broke ground on a new stadium. And there's FC Dallas for those who don't know what real football is . Also the Stars for our Canadian visitors, and the Mavericks for the self-loathing. Lots of sports destinations for those who may want to combine their wargaming trip with some feats of athleticism.
Chikout wrote: It seems like a sensible choice. If they put it in La or new York it would be a considerable journey for those on the other coast, and as someone who is used to 12 hour flights, 3 or 4 hours does seem like a short hop. Grapevine is probably a pretty cheap place to go too. If this is successful they can add another on each coast and a fourth in Chicago. That would have America pretty well covered.
Now they just need to open a cafe in Japan.
No, they really wouldn't have America pretty well covered. Drop a cafe in the Baltimore/DC area and it's too far away for the Boston area or the Georgia/Florida area. I wouldn't think that a cafe in LA or in San Francisco would be considered to cover Portland or Seattle. I wouldn't consider Memphis covered by Dallas. If it requires a plane flight or over 8 hours driving it's not covering it. If the first cafe works I'd expect more of an expansion than just 4 shops total.
Chikout wrote: You guys are all crazy. 4000 square feet is bloody massive. You could fit my house into it 7 times! If the venue has two floors you could comfortably fit in 40 or so gaming tables. Plenty of space for medium sized events.
As has been said, they are not trying to make warhammer world 2 or trying to compete with the Lvo and adepticon venues. This is just a cafe with a smallish event space.
In fact if you look at last year gw attended Lvo, (West coastish), Adepticon (north) and Nova (east).
If they have a small open day in the south (100 or so tickets), they will give the opportunity for people from most of America a chance to attend gw seminars and meet the team.
Aren't japanese houses like... extremely small?
The Warhammer Cafe will be the size of two "average" USA houses.
4000 sq. ft. is about 1/3 the size of my usual game shop/cafe. And no, I'm not kidding. Granted, Mox Boarding House (formerly Card Kingdom) carries more than just one line of games, but it's easily 12000 sq. ft. Not all of that is game space, the actual cafe part is probably about 25% of the space.
It will be interesting to see if it can stand on its own and thus prompt opening in other areas, but I honestly have my doubts.
Edit: I apparently can't estimate space. Mox is actually 25,000 sq. ft. So it's 6.25 x the size of the planned GW Cafe.
You guys are all crazy. 4000 square feet is bloody massive. You could fit my house into it 7 times!
Really tiny house? My flat is 50% bigger than that and has only 2 rooms.
1m² is roughly 10 sqft. This is going to be less than twice as big as my dad's house (roughly 220 m²), and that isn't even that big a house where I come from - which is not a particularly rich region.
Really? Grapevine Mills? That mall is ass my dudes. Anyways it's nicely situated to pull in from Fort Worth and North Dallas. Sleepy suburbs and non-stop highway construction.
Guess I got lucky. Cafe is gonna be a real quick drive down the road for me.
DFW... Wow! What a horrible horrible horrible location choice. TX is great and all, I love it there, but DFW just isn't viable. Other than DFW itself, Houston, San Antonio and Austin, there are no other major populated areas to draw from. No one will ever travel to this Warhammer Cafe who doesn't already live in TX in one of these nearby cities - which are themselves even 5+ hours drive away.
If I were to even attempt visiting this store...
1. I would need to set aside no less than 3 days to travel (Fri-Sun), which means: using a vacation day from work; two days of travel and ultimately having ONE day of gaming.
2. Round trip airfare will be no less than $300.00.
3. A hotel room for two nights will be another $300.00.
4. 3 days food & drink would be another very conservative $100.00.
3 days and $700.00 to have ONE day of gaming = NO FETHING WAY!
And I imagine this will be the case for most others.
Chicago could have drawn in people from Minneapolis, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit. That's 6 major cities in 5 states. It's a massively populated region of the country.
And the east cost... It's basically one continuous megalopolis from Boston to DC.
I looked at flights. About $450 for return for me. I could see if I was going for a two day event and then planned on spending a couple days or more doing Texas things.
Also, there are like 20 million people in this region:
Do people actually in Texas call it the "Texas Triangle"? From space:
EnTyme wrote: For baseball fans, the Texas Rangers also just broke ground on a new stadium. And there's FC Dallas for those who don't know what real football is . Also the Stars for our Canadian visitors, and the Mavericks for the self-loathing. Lots of sports destinations for those who may want to combine their wargaming trip with some feats of athleticism.
Wait...NEW one? When I lived there the one they had was already huge. What the hell are they going to do with the old one?
avantgarde wrote: Really? Grapevine Mills? That mall is ass my dudes. Anyways it's nicely situated to pull in from Fort Worth and North Dallas. Sleepy suburbs and non-stop highway construction.
Guess I got lucky. Cafe is gonna be a real quick drive down the road for me.
Seemed like a well maintained strip mall, to me. Very family friendly and gak tons of people walking through all the time.
It'll be interesting to see how this does. As it stands, I don't live anywhere near Texas, so this is worse than useless for me. It's hard to get excited for something that is so far away. I feel the same way about Warhammer World in the UK. Yeah, it's cool and all, but I'm not flying to the UK to visit. IF it does well and IF they build more in my area... then I'll get excited.
For context, the drive from my house in Delaware to this new cafe is roughly the same drive a Londoner would have if they decided to drive to a cafe in Minsk, Belarus. The round trip would take about 48 hours. To mirror above comments, even taking the cheapest flight options would involve a two days of travel, rental car, airfare, hotel stay, vacation time from work and $500-1000. Travel within the US over large distances can be somewhat impractical... and also somewhat unnecessary. The Dallas Fort Worth area offers very little that my local area doesn't also offer.
oni wrote: DFW... Wow! What a horrible horrible horrible location choice. TX is great and all, I love it there, but DFW just isn't viable. Other than DFW itself, Houston, San Antonio and Austin, there are no other major populated areas to draw from. No one will ever travel to this Warhammer Cafe who doesn't already live in TX in one of these nearby cities - which are themselves even 5+ hours drive away.
If I were to even attempt visiting this store...
1. I would need to set aside no less than 3 days to travel (Fri-Sun), which means: using a vacation day from work; two days of travel and ultimately having ONE day of gaming.
2. Round trip airfare will be no less than $300.00.
3. A hotel room for two nights will be another $300.00.
4. 3 days food & drink would be another very conservative $100.00.
3 days and $700.00 to have ONE day of gaming = NO FETHING WAY!
And I imagine this will be the case for most others.
Chicago could have drawn in people from Minneapolis, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit. That's 6 major cities in 5 states. It's a massively populated region of the country.
And the east cost... It's basically one continuous megalopolis from Boston to DC.
This store is not a tourist attraction. There are MILLIONS of people in that area and a very strong Warhammer scene.
A lot of people seem to think that the only reason to go to Dallas is for wargaming. I don't think that even GW thinks this will be a vacation destination. They chose an area with multiple attractions ranging from theme parks (Six Flags Over Texas) to zoos (the Ft. Worth Zoo was one of the most memorable trips we took when I was a kid) to a thriving music scene (Denton) to sports (see my previous post). Unless your city had been named as the location, literally any other city would have had the same problems people are claiming about Dallas. Oh, and for those who are wanting to have a drink as you game, Texas has one of the largest craft brewing industries in the world, and just about every coffee shop in my area (the Texas Panhandle) now has a liquor license these days. I would expect the Metroplex to be the same.
Why does anyone think that this is a destination, and that it has to serve the purpose of being a destination? It's a game store that will sell pastries and coffee. Big deal if it isn't in your neighborhood. It clearly seems like a pilot that they'll roll out to other places if successful. Settle down people.
mace_ace wrote: Why does anyone think that this is a destination, and that it has to serve the purpose of being a destination? It's a game store that will sell pastries and coffee. Big deal if it isn't in your neighborhood. It clearly seems like a pilot that they'll roll out to other places if successful. Settle down people.
From my understanding its also a destination for the dev team and events which makes it more interesting as murica doesn't have those nice games days to go chat them up.
Hulksmash wrote: 4000SF is fine for what their planning. That's twice as much square footage as my house and you can easily fit a cafe in half my home the other have being offices/storage and 2k SF for gaming area. That's more than fine if you don't cut the space up crazy.
I mean the stores here is maybe 20x20sf. So 400sf. Plus 600sf of storage plus 1k of cafe and 2k of gaming area.
Yeah, my house is just shy of 2000sf, so 4000sf would be a good size. It won't be big enough to host a grand tournament, but it should still fit half a dozen gaming table easily after accounting for the cafe and store.
Sadly, that size does suggest it'll be a fairly minimal cafe like the ones they have in Target and such. Pity, I really was hoping for a Bugman's in order to make it a real destination type place.
Yeah, I think the size strongly points to what this is intended to be -- a really nice Battle Bunker store with some food and drink, and not a U.S.-based Warhammer World with a gaming hall and Bugman's. Which is probably why the thing is called a cafe and not WW-US, lol.
I'm sure GW would *love* to have people flying in from all over the country to see it, but that's not going to happen, and this still looks to me like a test of a concept that could be applied in other major metro areas. Larger metro destination stores/hubs are actually what some of us in the U.S. have been calling for ever since they went to the one-person concept. If it works out, I think it's a really good thing and better approach for the U.S. market.
Exactly!
I was hoping for a Warhammer World US, but it looks like it will be a slightly bigger GWUS store that sells...snacks and drinks? Maybe?
I don't think many people are going to travel any significant distance for that.
Hell, it could even be them doing a trial run for a new way of doing Warhammer/GW shops here in the US period.
One of the biggest complaints you always hear about is that the shops are so small and dingy and crowded--but this would have to be a bit larger just as the concept. It would also require a few more staff than the normal 1 man shops, unless their way of providing snacks & drinks is just to add vending machines.
I have a million people within a 6 hour drive of me. In my city we have major event centres, a big board game cafe that has expanded twice, a 8000 sqft eSports themed night club and more.
This location has close to 20 million people within the same distance. And given how closely GW watches sales performance and spending, I think this location is going to do just fine.
EnTyme wrote: A lot of people seem to think that the only reason to go to Dallas is for wargaming. I don't think that even GW thinks this will be a vacation destination. They chose an area with multiple attractions ranging from theme parks (Six Flags Over Texas) to zoos (the Ft. Worth Zoo was one of the most memorable trips we took when I was a kid) to a thriving music scene (Denton) to sports (see my previous post). Unless your city had been named as the location, literally any other city would have had the same problems people are claiming about Dallas. Oh, and for those who are wanting to have a drink as you game, Texas has one of the largest craft brewing industries in the world, and just about every coffee shop in my area (the Texas Panhandle) now has a liquor license these days. I would expect the Metroplex to be the same.
That's not entirely true. The U.S. has several "Destination Cities" that people travel to just to see the city. Dallas isn't in the top five of them. Most of the coastal populations have much easier local access to everything you just listed as a reason to visit Dallas.
I've yet to find a list that named Los Angeles as a top 10 place to visit either, yet it's one of the most popular suggestions. If they'd asked me, I'd have probably recommended Austin, but the local population is roughly 1/10th the size of DFW.
EnTyme wrote: A lot of people seem to think that the only reason to go to Dallas is for wargaming. I don't think that even GW thinks this will be a vacation destination. They chose an area with multiple attractions ranging from theme parks (Six Flags Over Texas) to zoos (the Ft. Worth Zoo was one of the most memorable trips we took when I was a kid) to a thriving music scene (Denton) to sports (see my previous post). Unless your city had been named as the location, literally any other city would have had the same problems people are claiming about Dallas. Oh, and for those who are wanting to have a drink as you game, Texas has one of the largest craft brewing industries in the world, and just about every coffee shop in my area (the Texas Panhandle) now has a liquor license these days. I would expect the Metroplex to be the same.
That's not entirely true. The U.S. has several "Destination Cities" that people travel to just to see the city. Dallas isn't in the top five of them. Most of the coastal populations have much easier local access to everything you just listed as a reason to visit Dallas.
Agreed. People talk about wanting to go to NYC or Vegas or Boston. People generally don't talk about traveling to Texas for a quick vacation. There are theme parks everywhere in the US. There are zoos and aquariums all over the place. Every area has a "thriving local music scene". As to sports... well... people tend to prefer the home team. I used to live in Texas. It's a generally decent place. It's not any better than the majority of other places in the US. I'm definitely not traveling 1500 miles to go to a slightly different theme park or see a different tiger at a more distant zoo.
Let's call a duck a duck. Games Workshop's US retail operations are run out of Dallas, Texas. The cafe's location is just outside of Dallas. They're building it close to home as an experiment they can easily keep tabs on. If it's successful, maybe we'll see more in other areas. I'm curious to see how it does. The idea of food/beer with a game is appealing, but I'll pick an FLGS that hosts a wide array of gaming options over a GW shop any day of the week.
Yet another example of everything old being new again! At one time, a number of the old, larger GW stores were at malls in the Mills chain.
mace_ace wrote: Why does anyone think that this is a destination, and that it has to serve the purpose of being a destination? It's a game store that will sell pastries and coffee. Big deal if it isn't in your neighborhood. It clearly seems like a pilot that they'll roll out to other places if successful. Settle down people.
The answer is in the name. Ultimately, it's a cafe. I'm sure they'll do things to drive traffic there, but I don't think GW really believes a cafe will regularly draw people in from 1000 miles away. But if you're in a metro area that has one, it could be a cool thing.
EnTyme wrote: A lot of people seem to think that the only reason to go to Dallas is for wargaming. I don't think that even GW thinks this will be a vacation destination. They chose an area with multiple attractions ranging from theme parks (Six Flags Over Texas) to zoos (the Ft. Worth Zoo was one of the most memorable trips we took when I was a kid) to a thriving music scene (Denton) to sports (see my previous post). Unless your city had been named as the location, literally any other city would have had the same problems people are claiming about Dallas. Oh, and for those who are wanting to have a drink as you game, Texas has one of the largest craft brewing industries in the world, and just about every coffee shop in my area (the Texas Panhandle) now has a liquor license these days. I would expect the Metroplex to be the same.
That's not entirely true. The U.S. has several "Destination Cities" that people travel to just to see the city. Dallas isn't in the top five of them. Most of the coastal populations have much easier local access to everything you just listed as a reason to visit Dallas.
I'm gonna agree with this too. Note that's not a dig at Dallas, which I'm sure is a very nice city, nor at is it a shot at the cafe's viability.
Mymearan wrote: Yeah that's about 400 m2, so say 20x20 meters... not very big!
Sorry, more like 1150m2.
I may be off by a bit also, but 400 is definitely too little.
If you are going to take your time to correct someone online you should make sure that you are actually correct 4000 square feet is roughly 400 square meter (371 to be exact).
To not get into a disagreement, I guess I am just doing my conversions wrong then.
Sorry.
EnTyme wrote: I've yet to find a list that named Los Angeles as a top 10 place to visit either, yet it's one of the most popular suggestions. If they'd asked me, I'd have probably recommended Austin, but the local population is roughly 1/10th the size of DFW.
Really? Disneyland, Legoland, Knotts, Venice Beach, Hollywood, Queen Mary and Universal Studios all within 2hrs drive doesn't crack the top ten? Okay.
You mean congratulations to people in the DFW area. You seem to be having an issue with underestimating the size of Texas as well. That's a 4 hour drive from Houston.
Actually, I meant what I said. Someone in Amarillo or El Paso will have an easier time getting to this place than I will.
You will have a four drive - why are you complaining?!? Or are you from back East originally? If no, as a Westerner, like the rest of us west of the Mississippi and east of the Cascades/Sierra Nevadas, you know that such distances are simply a fact of life for those living in the region. A very unpleasant fact many times I will quite admit, especially this time of year where at my current latitude Winter is a November-to-April season. 2-4 hours drive is comparatively nothing for many things here in the Rockies where the deer out number the humans 100+-to-1. I could give more empirical proof, but, in general, the horse is already dead.
On the other hand and specifically, I am looking at a 22 hour drive with all of the costs that entails to go to this venue. If I want to save some time, but probably not any money really, a three and a half hour drive and a two and a half hour ($250 rt) flight. Or I can save the most time on a four and a half hour rt flight at $552. I do not know about you, but that is a LOT of money I am then not spending on toy soldiers, books or paint! AND that is just on travel costs!!!
But in the end, that is just me, yes?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think a lot folks are missing the point here. This is NOT just supposed to be some enlarged GW store! Let me simply quote from the original announcement and then the General Manager job description respectively:
Much more than just a store, the Warhammer Cafe will have a larger footprint, allowing for more gaming tables and enough space to run special events and activities. What’s more, you’ll be able to hang out and fuel your gaming and painting sessions with some tasty snacks and top-notch beverages.
The Warhammer Cafe will also act as a hub for the Warhammer hobby in North America, hosting guests from the Design Studio and a series of unique displays of Citadel miniatures. We (the Warhammer TV and Community teams) are super excited to check out the cafe, and you can bet we’ll be swinging by to help support the venue and report on the quality of the coffee.
and
The Warhammer Cafe will act as a hub for the Warhammer Hobby in North America, hosting guests from our design studio, showcasing unique displays of Citadel Miniatures, offering an extended range, exclusive surprises, and hosting the most exciting Warhammer events in all of North America.
Sounds more like a smaller Warhammer World to me.
And at 4,000 sq ft,, that is nothing here in the US. I will not bore the non-Americans with the size of grocery stores here, but almost all are bigger than that, even here in the Rockies. For something that is supposed to be "a hub for the Warhammer hobby in North America", it needs be a lot bigger.
EnTyme wrote: I've yet to find a list that named Los Angeles as a top 10 place to visit either, yet it's one of the most popular suggestions. If they'd asked me, I'd have probably recommended Austin, but the local population is roughly 1/10th the size of DFW.
Really? Disneyland, Legoland, Knotts, Venice Beach, Hollywood, Queen Mary and Universal Studios all within 2hrs drive doesn't crack the top ten? Okay.
Only relaying my search results, man. San Diego (went there last summer. Loved the city), San Franciso (one of my personal top 5 places I need to visit), etc. made most lists, but not LA. Also, I'm not saying it was the best possible location, I'm just trying to give reasons that it was as good a decision as any other major metropolitan area. I'm sure GW didn't just throw a dart at a map and say "there". They probably did a ton of research and found a lot of the statistics I've mentioned. Combine all this with lower cost of living and their existing offices in the area (and those were probably some of the biggest factors) and the decision makes sense.
EnTyme wrote: I've yet to find a list that named Los Angeles as a top 10 place to visit either, yet it's one of the most popular suggestions. If they'd asked me, I'd have probably recommended Austin, but the local population is roughly 1/10th the size of DFW.
Really? Disneyland, Legoland, Knotts, Venice Beach, Hollywood, Queen Mary and Universal Studios all within 2hrs drive doesn't crack the top ten? Okay.
Only relaying my search results, man. San Diego (went there last summer. Loved the city), San Franciso (one of my personal top 5 places I need to visit), etc. made most lists, but not LA.
Krikes some of you are making a huge deal out of this. I live in mn and I think this is a great idea and location. There is enough space for small events, a store, gaming, and a cafe style eatery. I literally watch this format work on a weekly basis with the ffg game center. It's about the double the size but the store takes up way more space and they have a full kitchen.
Overall it'll work well. It is one of the top 3 places I'd have picked as well. Chicago kin da sucks to travel to due to congestion, toll roads, and costs are higher. Dc area has a lot of the same issues though tolls aren't as bad. Honestly it's probably one of the most reasonable proof of concepts that will give them the best data. Honestly given prices I wouldn't put one on the west coast. I'd just work with flg if I wanted to host an event on the coast.
From how that is worded, i wonder if the 4k is for the event center/gaming space and does not include the retail and cafe/kitchen portion?
edit: also i think this is meant to service the area its in and not be something you go to from back east say. i think the plan is to do them in multiple large metro areas where the local population can float them, region hubs. i'm sure i'll still be way to far away from one, i'm at least 350 miles from the nearest GW store.
Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Because here, in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, standard retail spaces aren't built like that. GW would have to design and construct their own building if they wanted it to have more than one floor.
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Because here, in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, standard retail spaces aren't built like that.
GW would have to design and construct their own building if they wanted it to have more than one floor.
I assume thats because horizontal space is cheaper than vertical space?
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Square footage numbers are usable space. A two story building with 3000 square feet is 1500 ft2 per floor.
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Square footage numbers are usable space. A two story building with 3000 square feet is 1500 ft2 per floor.
I see. I guess this place will only be three times as big as my house then. I wonder how many gaming tables they will have. 10?
Do we have a timetable for this? I'm guessing it won't be open for at a few months yet.
I hope this is a success and expands globally, especially here in Japan where we don't have much gaming space at home and there isn't really a tournament scene.
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Square footage numbers are usable space. A two story building with 3000 square feet is 1500 ft2 per floor.
I see. I guess this place will only be three times as big as my house then. I wonder how many gaming tables they will have. 10?
Do we have a timetable for this? I'm guessing it won't be open for at a few months yet.
I hope this is a success and expands globally, especially here in Japan where we don't have much gaming space at home and there isn't really a tournament scene.
ChargerIIC wrote: Damn. it'd be cheaper to fly to london than to fly to Grapevine, Texas. It's not even close to any of the major W40k scenes outside of maybe the Dallas one.
From where? Honest question because I've never flown to DFW for more than $300 and I've never made it to europe for less than $700.
Chikout wrote: Why does everyone assume it will be just one floor? They could have the shop on the first floor, a cafe/ display area on the second floor and a gaming space on the third floor. 4000 square feet just means the footprint doesn't it?
Square footage numbers are usable space. A two story building with 3000 square feet is 1500 ft2 per floor.
I see. I guess this place will only be three times as big as my house then. I wonder how many gaming tables they will have. 10?
Do we have a timetable for this? I'm guessing it won't be open for at a few months yet.
I hope this is a success and expands globally, especially here in Japan where we don't have much gaming space at home and there isn't really a tournament scene.
Definitely not for a while.
The General Manager job listing does not close until 20 Feb.
If they get a pool of suitable candidates, it will take another 3-4 weeks minimum to get down to the one.
Then the one has to get a pool of suitable candidates to work for the one in the W-Cafe.
That pool then has to be distilled down to the necessary workers.
At the same time, is this outlet going to be put into an existing facility?
Do they already have a place contracted out if this is the case?
Or will they build to suit?
Do they have a property picked out already for this possibility?
This all could add a month or several to the process.
Then once these two are dealt with then the fixtures must be placed and then the stocking must be done.
That could be weeks or even months in and of itself?
Depends how much of the event/sales floor planning is already completed.
I think Christmas Season '18 will be the Grand Opening.
At the same time, is this outlet going to be put into an existing facility?
Do they already have a place contracted out if this is the case?
Or will they build to suit?
Do they have a property picked out already for this possibility?
This all could add a month or several to the process.
To announce a locality as specific as Grapevine suggests they already have the location already picked.
mace_ace wrote:Why does anyone think that this is a destination, and that it has to serve the purpose of being a destination? It's a game store that will sell pastries and coffee. Big deal if it isn't in your neighborhood. It clearly seems like a pilot that they'll roll out to other places if successful. Settle down people.
Because that's exactly how GW advertised it. I suggest you carefully read their posting regarding the Cafe on the Warhammer Community site.
Kriswall wrote:Let's call a duck a duck. Games Workshop's US retail operations are run out of Dallas, Texas. The cafe's location is just outside of Dallas. They're building it close to home as an experiment they can easily keep tabs on. If it's successful, maybe we'll see more in other areas. I'm curious to see how it does. The idea of food/beer with a game is appealing, but I'll pick an FLGS that hosts a wide array of gaming options over a GW shop any day of the week.
Last I knew GW's North American HQ is in Memphis, TN, not TX.
Kriswall wrote:Let's call a duck a duck. Games Workshop's US retail operations are run out of Dallas, Texas. The cafe's location is just outside of Dallas. They're building it close to home as an experiment they can easily keep tabs on. If it's successful, maybe we'll see more in other areas. I'm curious to see how it does. The idea of food/beer with a game is appealing, but I'll pick an FLGS that hosts a wide array of gaming options over a GW shop any day of the week.
Last I knew GW's North American HQ is in Memphis, TN, not TX.
Their retail operations are run out of Dallas (Irving technically which is basically 'down the road' from Grapevine.)
At the same time, is this outlet going to be put into an existing facility?
Do they already have a place contracted out if this is the case?
Or will they build to suit?
Do they have a property picked out already for this possibility?
This all could add a month or several to the process.
To announce a locality as specific as Grapevine suggests they already have the location already picked.
Or, having worked in city government, it can only mean that a deal concerning utilities, taxes and so forth has been done with the city board/commission/whatever they have locally.
Some municipalities give businesses some sweet deals to make sure they build or lease within their limits, sometimes years before they actually do any business with the public, just to make sure they do not go elsewhere..
Popsghostly wrote: Guess it gives an excuse to hit up Texas for a road trip.
Why? I mean, unless there are exclusives like you see at Warhammer World, having a GW employee pour your coffee isn't worth the price of gas.
Now if you were already planning a road trip that went through Dallas, I could see making a pit stop there just for fun.
It would make a good story lol. Why did you make the 16 hour trip to Dallas? Games Workshop Cafe!!! If they go overboard with theming like Disney or Las Vegas, I can already imagine servers wearing cadian uniforms and wych outfits.
Chikout wrote: You guys are all crazy. 4000 square feet is bloody massive. You could fit my house into it 7 times! If the venue has two floors you could comfortably fit in 40 or so gaming tables.
4000 square feet is a medium sized Texas house...
T
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here are a few distances to Grapevine for our Euro cousins to compare to European distances.
New York City: 1600 miles, 2600km, 4 hour flight
Los Angeles: 1400 miles, 2250km, 3 hour flight
Chicago: 1000miles, 1600km, 2:15 flight
Even Memphis isn't that close: 500 miles, 800 km
I thought a feet was 0.30m ? So 4000² feet would be like 4000*0.30m = 1 200m² ? So more than 1km² ?
Your math is off . 1 m² is slightly less than 11 sqft (3x3 squares of 30.5cm x 30.5cm plus some rest).
1km² is not 1000m², but 1 million m² - 1000m x 1000m
godardc wrote: I thought a feet was 0.30m ? So 4000² feet would be like 4000*0.30m = 1 200m² ? So more than 1km² ?
A linear foot is 0.305m. a square foot is (0.305 x 0.305) = 0.093 square metres. Likewise, a square kilometre is (1000 metres) squared, not 1000 (metres squared).
One wonders if they’re starting smaller, with a view to upsizing if it works out well enough?
I mean, shop floor space is a premium, yes? Perhaps they’re looking to see if the Café side of things can support itself first?
Because Warhammer World was different. It wasn’t a ‘let’s have a big gaming hall’. Instead, they were relocating their entire HQ. Management, studio, everyone. When you need that level of space, was the addition of WW and Bugman’s more a ‘and we could do that?’ Who knows? Not I.
Perhaps they intend to hire larger facilities for big events, and use the Café as a unique feature over other large tournaments?
Why is GW going back to Grapevine? They closed the store in the Grapevine Mills Mall a few years ago. So I guess they wanna fill in the void? The FLGS Area 51 did close its doors two years ago, and other than that dude Sam no one else moved in there. I don't play in GW stores but I'd swing by to check it out when it gets built. Not sure I want to go to a 'cafe' though. Their food will probably be meh and very over priced. If they want to get more people to swing by maybe have some FW models for sale there. Now that would be something!
Popsghostly wrote: Guess it gives an excuse to hit up Texas for a road trip.
Why? I mean, unless there are exclusives like you see at Warhammer World, having a GW employee pour your coffee isn't worth the price of gas.
Now if you were already planning a road trip that went through Dallas, I could see making a pit stop there just for fun.
You're a little too focused on the "Cafe" portion of the title. The press release implies this will be a GW store that also happens to have a cafe in it. They way they're promoting it, I can't imagine them not holding events here.
Davespil wrote: ... . If they want to get more people to swing by maybe have some FW models for sale there. Now that would be something!
Hear, hear!
I would love a local store that carried Forge World products.
FLGS says the terms Forge World demands of retailers are frightfully unreasonable, and he is a really nice guy who runs a ship-shape shoppe.
That’s right – the forthcoming Warhammer Cafe needs, nae deserves(!) a name change, and we need your help to find one that is suitably epic.
You see, since we announced the Warhammer Cafe, the response has been absolutely incredible and the team responsible for bringing the venue to life have gotten more than a little carried away with their plans for Warhammer’s new spiritual home in North America…
While most of the details are still locked away in a warded stasis vault, what’s clear is that it’s destined to be far more than just a place where you can grab a coffee while you pick up your next hobby project (although that’s a pretty cool feature in and of itself!).
So, we figured that the Warhammer Cafe needed a new name, one more suited to its impending awesomeness.
And who better than you to help us choose? There’s no way we’d be building this new home for the Warhammer hobby in North America if there wasn’t such a dedicated community there to support it. This venue really is for you, and it’s only fitting you have your say in its moniker.
In order to keep construction on track, we need to have the name locked down by Monday. So you’ve just 24 hours to have your say, giving us the weekend to pour over your suggestions and choose the new name for the venue previously called the Warhammer Cafe!
Have at it…
Make sure you check back on Monday to find out under what name the venue shall hence force stand tall*.
I would imagine it has to have either Warhammer or Games Workshop tied into the name from a purely brand recognition standpoint, anything without one of those 2 words in part of the title is not going to fly with the marketing team.
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