Hey, folks just visited YouTube and a leaked and heavily pixelated pic was presented in the vid. It showed a new Prim. Landspeeder, Prim. Bikes and a Prim. Baal Predator.
Special mention goes to the Landspeeder. It's gigantic and screams out the Prim. propaganda like nothing else:
Speeder looks like a twin turret in the nose, possibly the same twin heavy bolter as the repulsor. Optimally with twin Las options. Side sponson off the impulsor. Rear turret that could be missile pods or some sort of communication array.
Bottom right looms like straight impulsor. Tank to the left looks like a modified impulsor hull with maybe a nose gun and shrunken repulsor turret- cannon on the nose, Icarus rocket pods on the sides, antennae on the back.
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
Light Heavy Leadstorm Stubber Rockets is the bit you can actually see at the back. They're actually cluster missiles built by Cawl for close-range aerial engagements, which is why they're angled toward one another - they're actually intended to hit each other about 20 yards ahead of the plane, creating a deadly stream of explosive shrapnel. As they fly through the air the Light Heavy Stubbers built in to the missiles fire, which are the same as regular heavy stubbers but they use the Assault instead of Heavy rules. They're also heavy 4, but on a 6 to hit they get to reroll a 1 to wound.
They're a really innovative addition to the primaris arsenal and i'm really excited for them. The homeruns just keep coming from Games Workshop!
Seems pretty odd that they didn't include these in the 4 month old Space Marine Codex. There's no way these weren't finished models even before the codex released. One reason I stopped playing 40k was the constant invalidation of books even months after release. I guess in this case the Codex isnt invalid, but when I used to buy a codex, I expected that for at least a year I wouldn't need any other rules documents and models. If Primaris are released at this rate, how long till SM codex 3.0 and 6 more supplements to buy?
Can we just pretend that we have three pages of this comment and move on to talking about other aspects of this? I mean I get it, I play necrons, we've gotten one new model in the past 8 or so years, so I completely get the frustration. However cathartic it might be to vent one's spleen on this topic, page after page of it isn't interesting or useful.
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
Light Heavy Leadstorm Stubber Rockets is the bit you can actually see at the back. They're actually cluster missiles built by Cawl for close-range aerial engagements, which is why they're angled toward one another - they're actually intended to hit each other about 20 yards ahead of the plane, creating a deadly stream of explosive shrapnel. As they fly through the air the Light Heavy Stubbers built in to the missiles fire, which are the same as regular heavy stubbers but they use the Assault instead of Heavy rules. They're also heavy 4, but on a 6 to hit they get to reroll a 1 to wound.
They're a really innovative addition to the primaris arsenal and i'm really excited for them. The homeruns just keep coming from Games Workshop!
Man, the rules leaking early really takes my enjoyment out of releases
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Seems pretty odd that they didn't include these in the 4 month old Space Marine Codex. There's no way these weren't finished models even before the codex released. One reason I stopped playing 40k was the constant invalidation of books even months after release. I guess in this case the Codex isnt invalid, but when I used to buy a codex, I expected that for at least a year I wouldn't need any other rules documents and models. If Primaris are released at this rate, how long till SM codex 3.0 and 6 more supplements to buy?
I've said this a million times between here and reddit. The space marine line, aka the LARGEST line in the franchise, is being COMPLETELY revamped. From end to end. So not only does this mean we're going to see dispraportionate marine-majorty releases for a while, but they probably had to make the call between waiting until the entire line was out to release a codex, orrrrrr take the more profit-oriented path and release codexes every major wave or two.
I think as a business one of those makes way more sense than the other.
Inb4 living digital document yes I know I too wish they'd join us in this millennium, I'd be happy to pay a monthly fee for a single updated service or just pay to have it updated whenever something was released. But sadly that's not where they're at.
AdMech say "Sup", given that we've had three units(Skorpius Disintegrator, Skorpius Dunerider, Techpriest Manipulus) and two characters(Daedolusius and X-101) released with nothing more than rules via their included material.
Additionally, when Shadowspear dropped? Marine players had a downloadable document and/or rules included within the box for the Shadowspear stuff and the Repulsor Executioner.
It's amazing how often people seem to forget about the fact that GWhas done things without needing a codex release.
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
Light Heavy Leadstorm Stubber Rockets is the bit you can actually see at the back. They're actually cluster missiles built by Cawl for close-range aerial engagements, which is why they're angled toward one another - they're actually intended to hit each other about 20 yards ahead of the plane, creating a deadly stream of explosive shrapnel. As they fly through the air the Light Heavy Stubbers built in to the missiles fire, which are the same as regular heavy stubbers but they use the Assault instead of Heavy rules. They're also heavy 4, but on a 6 to hit they get to reroll a 1 to wound.
They're a really innovative addition to the primaris arsenal and i'm really excited for them. The homeruns just keep coming from Games Workshop!
Man, the rules leaking early really takes my enjoyment out of releases
You might want to go to the doctor, that was such a sarcastic joke I'm shocked you didnt taste the salt from your screen. Might have a problem :p
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
Light Heavy Leadstorm Stubber Rockets is the bit you can actually see at the back. They're actually cluster missiles built by Cawl for close-range aerial engagements, which is why they're angled toward one another - they're actually intended to hit each other about 20 yards ahead of the plane, creating a deadly stream of explosive shrapnel. As they fly through the air the Light Heavy Stubbers built in to the missiles fire, which are the same as regular heavy stubbers but they use the Assault instead of Heavy rules. They're also heavy 4, but on a 6 to hit they get to reroll a 1 to wound.
They're a really innovative addition to the primaris arsenal and i'm really excited for them. The homeruns just keep coming from Games Workshop!
Man, the rules leaking early really takes my enjoyment out of releases
You might want to go to the doctor, that was such a sarcastic joke I'm shocked you didnt taste the salt from your screen. Might have a problem :p
You might want to go to the doctor doctor, that was such a sarcastic joke response to the sarcastic joke I'm shocked you didn't taste the salt salt from your screen screen.
Will they at least give the bike-centric marine factions their characters back since they discontinued all the non-primaris ones? they do at least deserve that...
So at this point, I think it is pretty clear that GW is revamping the whole Space Marine line and is going to (eventually) squat all of the old stuff).
Also, I wish GW would give a quarter of the attention and love they lavish upon Space Marines to literally any other faction...
I think they need to give us infantry weapons before they get onto that. I mean, which genius thought "Yeah, Primaris, they're like Spase marines but without chainswords and powerfists and heavy bolters" was acceptable?
Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
Look forward to seeing what they come out with. Hopefully it will be more Mk X looking stuff. I'm not as big of a fan of the chunky gravis or tacticool phobos versions. Hopefully the individual kits will have more options for characters.
Will they at least give the bike-centric marine factions their characters back since they discontinued all the non-primaris ones? they do at least deserve that...
And let's not pretend that there were a whole slew of "bike-centric marine factions".
There is White Scars and Dark Angels. That's it.
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Arbitrator wrote: Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
For all we know, this stuff wasn't coming out until after Psychic Awakening finished in the spring. And it's not like these things are restricted to just Codex Marines like it used to be.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
Nope, this is about on par with what happened with Stormcast. There was the initial batch of 'troops' with the initial push and the Extremis Chamber stuff, then halfway through AoS' lifespan we saw the Vanguard stuff added in and AoS2.0 dropped we got the Sacrosanct Chamber.
Will they at least give the bike-centric marine factions their characters back since they discontinued all the non-primaris ones? they do at least deserve that...
And let's not pretend that there were a whole slew of "bike-centric marine factions".
There is White Scars and Dark Angels. That's it.
there were still more options than that one. but thanks for pointing out i was still being to kind to this. welp, ill look on the bright side. even less to think about budgeting for.
Arbitrator wrote: Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
Arbitrator wrote: Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
This completely valid and relevant point is pretty consistently ignored on this forum.
there were still more options than that one. but thanks for pointing out i was still being to kind to this. welp, ill look on the bright side. even less to think about budgeting for.
If you want bike characters that aren't Dark Angels or White Scars, go look up the "Legends" stuff on the Community page. It's free downloads.
And really, let's not pretend that these choices(Librarians and Chaplains) were super popular outside of tournament trash.
there were still more options than that one. but thanks for pointing out i was still being to kind to this. welp, ill look on the bright side. even less to think about budgeting for.
If you want bike characters that aren't Dark Angels or White Scars, go look up the "Legends" stuff on the Community page. It's free downloads.
And really, let's not pretend that these choices(Librarians and Chaplains) were super popular outside of tournament trash.
gods forbid someone wanting to run as close to pure bikes as possible could take them to tournaments or not have an extra hurtle to playing as they have been for years, whether or not it was "meta" (which i highly doubt)
but i will not pretend i actually care, because i don't like marines to begin with, i was just slotting that in as a favor to the folks who play those marines because they got slapped hardest by legends anyway. if i have to delay giving a crap about model releases next year as well, let it be something for ALL the power armored people at least, not a few. that includes the melee ones this time...
Let's not make this thread toxic guys and girls, some of the more potent radiation fuelled members of this forum are currently suspended for such behaviour.
Marines are a necessary evil, they bank roll many other units in other armies that probably make a small profit for GW if that.
Finally getting back into 40k this year, building a primaris army so I'm happy about this.
The only thing I don't like about primaris is chaos marines now, they need to equally be revamped nearly fully across the range and uniformly bought up to an appropriate size.
I also would like to see more mixing of older armour marks into the primaris range now. An updated version of II or III that acts as specialist breacher teams ets.
We also can not be far away from a dedicated elite assault unit now.
The only thing I don't like about primaris is chaos marines now, they need to equally be revamped nearly fully across the range and uniformly bought up to an appropriate size.
Haven't some already got a little scale up compared to their old counterparts? I know DG got a size bump.
Arbitrator wrote: Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
Several factions don't even have a super-heavy, let alone a non-FW one. Some don't have flyers. GSC don't have a dedicated tank either.
Removed - Rule #1 please
'Best to think of it as an entirely new army' is nonsense, because it's part of Codex: Space Marines, like it or not. Maybe if you were talking about Harlequins being spun-off from Eldar you'd have a point, but we're not.
Xenomancers wrote: It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
This completely valid and relevant point is pretty consistently ignored on this forum.
As someone who plays a brand new army that came out before primaris, has had fewer releases, and has more holes in it's line than they do. Nah, there's reason to complain.
I kinda hope the Bikes are a melee unit (with twin bolt rifles on the bike, of course). Inceptors already do the same job as bikes (but better) and Primaris do not have a (fast) dedicated melee unit. Even better if you give them lances
Xenomancers wrote: It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
This completely valid and relevant point is pretty consistently ignored on this forum.
As someone who plays a brand new army that came out before primaris, has had fewer releases, and has more holes in it's line than they do. Nah, there's reason to complain.
Reason to complain? Yes.
But is it really reasonable to expect to get equivalent releases in the middle of the main fiction's revamping? Nah.
It's like being mad there's not more Ravenclaw characters in Harry Potter. You're allowed to like Ravenclaw, but you're nuts to think they'll ever come close to having the same amount of merch as Gryffindor
-$55 per model, at least.
-No fewer than five listed weapons (each will annoyingly be subtly different from every other version of the same weapon in the Space Marine codex)
-At least one will feature a "stubber" variant with no fewer than three adjectives preceding the word "stubber".
-Better in every way than the preceding landspeeder.
Light Heavy Leadstorm Stubber Rockets is the bit you can actually see at the back. They're actually cluster missiles built by Cawl for close-range aerial engagements, which is why they're angled toward one another - they're actually intended to hit each other about 20 yards ahead of the plane, creating a deadly stream of explosive shrapnel. As they fly through the air the Light Heavy Stubbers built in to the missiles fire, which are the same as regular heavy stubbers but they use the Assault instead of Heavy rules. They're also heavy 4, but on a 6 to hit they get to reroll a 1 to wound.
They're a really innovative addition to the primaris arsenal and i'm really excited for them. The homeruns just keep coming from Games Workshop!
Man, the rules leaking early really takes my enjoyment out of releases
You might want to go to the doctor, that was such a sarcastic joke I'm shocked you didnt taste the salt from your screen. Might have a problem :p
You might want to go to the doctor doctor, that was such a sarcastic joke response to the sarcastic joke I'm shocked you didn't taste the salt salt from your screen screen.
And you might want to go to the doctor doctor doctor! Or wait, maybe now I need to go to the doctor doctor doctor doctor? I can't tell anymore I'm so confused. Thanks alot Games Workshop. You owe me a sarcasm detector. Again.
But is it really reasonable to expect to get equivalent releases in the middle of the main fiction's revamping? Nah.
It's like being mad there's not more Ravenclaw characters in Harry Potter. You're allowed to like Ravenclaw, but you're nuts to think they'll ever come close to having the same amount of merch as Gryffindor
Man, now I see why people get annoyed about being relegated to NPC status, you're literally doing it here.
The last thing space marines need is even more models, they need half the codex excised so that units actually have purposes. The book is so bloated and sad that actual interesting new units are more or less impossible so they're just tossing more guns on floaty things.
Now, if next edition all the old marines are suddenly out of the codex. Yeah, sure, fill the last couple holes and please don't re-bloat the codex. But right now there's literally nothing that can even remotely rival the favored status of space marines, not in models, not in rules, and certainly not on the basis of being 'brand new'. How in the hell is the setting supposed to stay interesting if NOTHING rivals them? Way things are going you'd think space marines out number the militarum.
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Galef wrote: I kinda hope the Bikes are a melee unit (with twin bolt rifles on the bike, of course). Inceptors already do the same job as bikes (but better) and Primaris do not have a (fast) dedicated melee unit. Even better if you give them lances
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Despite my moaning, give me jet bikes with lances and I might well be in. May as well pick the winning side eventually right?
Argive wrote: Ugh... I hope this is not happening...
If it has to happen it would be so nice if they could at least communicate projected date set for them to update the range.
So I know how long to take a break from 40k to save myself the frustration...
Yes, it is indeed always terrible when they release awesome looking new models. I hate when that happens.
Yes it is indeed terrible when they release awesome looking models for factions me and my mates don't play. Again.. and again.. aaand again... Coz you know.. I wont buy them and then look at bunch of fine cast garbage available to me.
moving away from the anti-marine whining that invariably infests these threads (and have gotten people banned for being excessive about it just recently) a friend whom I showed the pic to made an intreasting observation, he said the tank vaguely reminds him of the old de-oderant tank.
Red_Five wrote: So at this point, I think it is pretty clear that GW is revamping the whole Space Marine line and is going to (eventually) squat all of the old stuff).
Also, I wish GW would give a quarter of the attention and love they lavish upon Space Marines to literally any other faction...
Xenomancers wrote: Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
I can think of a lot of armies that lack much more, if you think about it that way. They even lacked it for much, much longer too!
Xenomancers wrote: Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
I can think of a lot of armies that lack much more, if you think about it that way. They even lacked it for much, much longer too!
and sisters are getting their entire line revamped in january.
They still lack flyers and superheavies after the revamp dude. According to Xenomancer it means GW should do a second, third and fourth wave to give us all those stuff. Ahah who the hell believes this?
And Sisters are far from the only army with much more “holes” in their available units than Primaris marines.
Why would someone not interested in - or actively against - Marines in general and Primaris in particular bother wandering into this thread, never mind bothering to post odd irrelevant stuff?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: They still lack flyers and superheavies after the revamp dude. According to Xenomancer it means GW should do a second, third and fourth wave to give us all those stuff. .
And I agree with him, Sisters should totally get a flyer, a super heavy well.. yeah no not every army has those, excluding forge world (and Knights) only Imperial Guard, Orks Necons chaos marines and craftworld eldar have a super heavy. Include "any lord of war" and you can then count space marines, death guard and 1k sons as having them.
they're not exactly universal. (and sisters really can get away with running a knight if they so choose their "pure faction" bonus is pretty small)
Alpharius wrote: Why would someone not interested in - or actively against - Marines in general and Primaris in particular bother wandering into this thread, never mind bothering to post odd irrelevant stuff?
they do it to complain. I think they have this bizzare idea that if they complain endlessly about marine stuff GW will go "PEWOPLE ON DAKKA DAKKA ARE COMPLAINING! ELT'S PUT OUT ORKS/ELDAR ETC INSTEAD"
They should actually hope for a *faster* release for all the Primaris stuff - once it’s all out, GW will have time to move on to all those neglected lines!
at this point I am hoping they just hurry this up. and this time make sure melee marines and bike marines get the stuff they need, so we can get to something that doesn't look like a bad 30k impression to my eyes, assuming they don't just go right back to the same thing again.
They should actually hope for a *faster* release for all the Primaris stuff - once it’s all out, GW will have time to move on to all those neglected lines!
Well yes. They obviously have planned this for years and have a ton of designs in various stages of production. Some people on Dakka whining is not going to stop GW from releasing them.
old marines aren't likely going anywhere anytime soon. a seperate "Ultima founding" codex that focuses purely on primaris I could see, but they'll keep support for old marines. GW's been careful to avoid obselerating any old marine stuff so far
Do folks really think the brand spanking new soace marine stuff like the flyers, centurions, dreadnoughts etc could not just be retconned into primaris stuff ? How do you know brother jiminy totally enclosed in the cockpit of his stormturducken is 9 feet tall instead of 8?
At a certain point, how do you come up with more marine plane concepts? you have a big flying tank with side-mounted machine guns, you've got a fighter jet, you've got an anti-ground strafing jet, you've got a stealth jet, you've got a big gunsy jet with the dark angels, you've got an assault plane with the space wolves.
What niche here isn't being filled by marine planes that a plane with literally no visible primaris marines at all that GW just says "This is Primaris Marine branded" could possibly fill?
I’m pretty certain they won’t be Primaris bikes. Everything so far has been hover based for Primaris and those ones have wheels by the look of it, so seem more like the old ones. I’d be happy to be wrong though.
the_scotsman wrote: Do folks really think the brand spanking new soace marine stuff like the flyers, centurions, dreadnoughts etc could not just be retconned into primaris stuff ? How do you know brother jiminy totally enclosed in the cockpit of his stormturducken is 9 feet tall instead of 8?
At a certain point, how do you come up with more marine plane concepts? you have a big flying tank with side-mounted machine guns, you've got a fighter jet, you've got an anti-ground strafing jet, you've got a stealth jet, you've got a big gunsy jet with the dark angels, you've got an assault plane with the space wolves.
What niche here isn't being filled by marine planes that a plane with literally no visible primaris marines at all that GW just says "This is Primaris Marine branded" could possibly fill?
We need a plastic primaris storm raven. Bigger, better proportions, a souped up version of the gun off the repulsor executioner on top, bunch of twin heavy bolter turrets scattered, carries a couple squads of troops and a dreadnought internally. In plastic.
the_scotsman wrote: Do folks really think the brand spanking new soace marine stuff like the flyers, centurions, dreadnoughts etc could not just be retconned into primaris stuff ? How do you know brother jiminy totally enclosed in the cockpit of his stormturducken is 9 feet tall instead of 8?
At a certain point, how do you come up with more marine plane concepts? you have a big flying tank with side-mounted machine guns, you've got a fighter jet, you've got an anti-ground strafing jet, you've got a stealth jet, you've got a big gunsy jet with the dark angels, you've got an assault plane with the space wolves.
What niche here isn't being filled by marine planes that a plane with literally no visible primaris marines at all that GW just says "This is Primaris Marine branded" could possibly fill?
We need a plastic primaris storm raven. Bigger, better proportions, a souped up version of the gun off the repulsor executioner on top, bunch of twin heavy bolter turrets scattered, carries a couple squads of troops and a dreadnought internally. In plastic.
Maybe the reason why we haven't seen a plastic Thunderhawk yet is because they've been waiting to make a PRIMARIS Thunderhawk!!!
per podcast with Jervis, there are going to be Primaris "waves" so why the heck are people surprised by this? Sure, we would all like our finecast crap replaced, totally agree there, but this old-marine replacement is real and will continue over the next few years. We had wave 1, then the Vanguard wave (which I loved much more than the original), and we were certainly expecting the Gravis wave next (is that a new gravis guy top left of pic?). It looks like we are also getting a fast attack wave now too.
I wouldn't expect to see this next wave until late or end of 2020 at the earliest though, so no reason to go completely bananas.
However, GW will soon be at that point where customers will see the inevitable and simply stop buying any old marine models. This may force their hand in making the replacement happen faster, who knows? I am now on an old-marine freeze after seeing this image. What I have in boxes will be the last non-primaris I buy for any of the 3 factions I have of marines (Dark Angels, Ravengurd, Deathwatch)
Maybe the reason why we haven't seen a plastic Thunderhawk yet is because they've been waiting to make a PRIMARIS Thunderhawk!!!
That is actually likely. It already exists in the fluff and is called Overlord.
What, really? I was just being silly...
the overlord is mentioned in Dark Imperium, given the way it's described sounds like a bigger thunderhawk I doubt very much we'll see a 40k mini of it. I suspect if we see it in plastic we'll see a Imperial Aeronautica mini.
bullyboy wrote: per podcast with Jervis, there are going to be Primaris "waves" so why the heck are people surprised by this? Sure, we would all like our finecast crap replaced, totally agree there, but this old-marine replacement is real and will continue over the next few years. We had wave 1, then the Vanguard wave (which I loved much more than the original), and we were certainly expecting the Gravis wave next (is that a new gravis guy top left of pic?). It looks like we are also getting a fast attack wave now too.
I wouldn't expect to see this next wave until late or end of 2020 at the earliest though, so no reason to go completely bananas.
Nope. If this is a real image of a promo pic, it won't be that far out. Painting for promos happens last, and fairly near the announcement. If this is real and it doesn't happen by March, I'll be shocked. The most distant possibility is its the marine half of the '9e' starter set for summer. (with double skimmers or whatever), and a few supporting vehicles.
The surprise is coming from how quickly everything is cycling. From index to codex to shadowspear to codex 2 to PA updates to (possibly) yet even more. Given that part of the issue with releases recently has been a production backlog, seeing another pile of new kits didn't seem likely to anyone. Its only been two and a half years of pretty relentless updates.
Though I am reminded of the AoS initial release where there was very little and then Sigmarines got spammed relentlessly, to the point that now the only factions that come close are Cities of Sigmar and Legions of Nagash, which are mash-ups of old world factions. (The StD entry is still padded by the various collection deals and Warcry gangs). GW obviously believes the (Sig)marines are their business, regardless of game.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Its possible, buuut the upper front does look IMO to be a different style and the rider seems to be sat further back.
yeah it['s hard to tell, way I see it, depending on how this works out we've two possiabilities.
the first is that only the speeder is new, which suggests it'll be part of a wave of new aircraft for a varity of factions (including the admech flier)
IF the bikes are indeed primaris Bikes then we'll need to re-examine some assumptions. currently we've been assuming primaris waves based around armor type. if this turns out to be the case we're going to likely instead see the primaris waves based around company types. (so the first wave was the battle line companies, wave 2 was the scout company, this wave would be the fast attack company, with another wave for heavy support and elite companies) Personally I'm kinda hoping these are primaris bikes. an all primaris force is difficult to do if you want a fast attack option that isn't on a fething flight stand
Arbitrator wrote: Oh boy, Space Marines were definitely starved for releases.
Even by GW's standards, they really pushing the Primaris line out of the door quick? I'd have expected them to try and drip feed a bit more, because at this rate they'll be introducing a new scale line of Ultdominris Primarx Marines in a few years.
It's best to think of it as an entirely new army. It really is. You can just play with your old one until they declare you can't at this point. Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy. If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.
... What? You still have space Marine access to FW and so on! *Looks at Tyranids LOW choices*
Bright side once GW declare no more old marines, just... Proxy them as the new ones instead
They should actually hope for a *faster* release for all the Primaris stuff - once it’s all out, GW will have time to move on to all those neglected lines!
Come now. That's what they said about minimarines. "All we need is that plastic thunderfire cannon and then we'll be done and GW can move on to all those neglected lines!" We all see how that turned out.
the_scotsman wrote: What niche here isn't being filled by marine planes that a plane with literally no visible primaris marines at all that GW just says "This is Primaris Marine branded" could possibly fill?
I guarantee you that when they finally get around to obsoleting the space marine flyers releasing new primaris flyers the cockpits will all be carefully designed to display the kneepads of the pilots.
Might help or might not help.. I quickly blurred a picture of the current bikes to match the blur of the image seen on B&C .. still impossible to be sure, but the proportions seem to be different (but it could also be lighting, angle and paintjob that make them seem different).
rocksville wrote: Might help or might not help.. I quickly blurred a picture of the current bikes to match the blur of the image seen on B&C .. still impossible to be sure, but the proportions seem to be different (but it could also be lighting, angle and paintjob that make them seem different).
The Exhaust especially looks a lot more pronounced on the "leaked" bikes. The substantially larger Bases are also a giveaway. The front Fenders clearly have a completely different shape with that rounded part. These are new bikes. 100%
rocksville wrote: Might help or might not help.. I quickly blurred a picture of the current bikes to match the blur of the image seen on B&C .. still impossible to be sure, but the proportions seem to be different (but it could also be lighting, angle and paintjob that make them seem different).
The Exhaust especially looks a lot more pronounced on the "leaked" bikes. The substantially larger Bases are also a giveaway. The front Fenders clearly have a completely different shape with that rounded part. These are new bikes. 100%
I might be mistaken, but to me it looks as if there are two Marines on the new bikes.
rocksville wrote: Might help or might not help.. I quickly blurred a picture of the current bikes to match the blur of the image seen on B&C .. still impossible to be sure, but the proportions seem to be different (but it could also be lighting, angle and paintjob that make them seem different).
The Exhaust especially looks a lot more pronounced on the "leaked" bikes. The substantially larger Bases are also a giveaway. The front Fenders clearly have a completely different shape with that rounded part. These are new bikes. 100%
I might be mistaken, but to me it looks as if there are two Marines on the new bikes.
nah a quick sketch over on photoshop makes them appear to have a slightly more dirt bike look, front wheel is further forward than the main body, thefront appears more rounded in general and the back exhausts seem chunkier. I also coudlnt make out full on zooming in if the armoured sections lights are asymetrically placed or if its on an angle.
I might be mistaken, but to me it looks as if there are two Marines on the new bikes.
A few peopel have said that. I think it would look pretty stupid, like a couple of chums taking a nice ride on a tandem. I wouldn't put it past the design team though. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put both a severed head and a hunting hawk in the hand of that WS Primaris captain may indeed also think that tandem assault bikers looks pretty frikkin cool.
I might be mistaken, but to me it looks as if there are two Marines on the new bikes.
A few peopel have said that. I think it would look pretty stupid, like a couple of chums taking a nice ride on a tandem. I wouldn't put it past the design team though. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put both a severed head and a hunting hawk in the hand of that WS Primaris captain may indeed also think that tandem assault bikers looks pretty frikkin cool.
Yeah, combat pillion riders always look rubbish... oh wait, no they dont
Alpharius wrote: But why bother coming into this particular thread then?
If you hate ice cream do you go to...the ice cream shop?
And the complain about...the ice cream?
Still, hopefully school starts up again soon the world round.
Those damn kids, having opinions I don't like! Not me, I'm a mature boy, who only agrees with everything Daddy GW does. My only opinion being in defence of GW makes me intelligent! Aren't I a good boy?
Sorry, but there's more people been complaining about Da Complainer Boogeyman in this thread than have actually been (rightfully) complaining about yet more Marines. Hell, a good chunk of the replies to this 'leak' have been people pre-emptively complaining about people who dislike it.
Your analogy's a poor one anyway. If Games Workshop was called 'The Space Marine Workshop' and literally sold nothing but Space Marines, you'd have a point. You don't see anybody complaining when more Space Marines being added to 30k now, do you? (Other than people asking for 40k rules) It's more like if an ice cream parlour sold 50 flavours of vanilla, with multiple variations WITHIN some of those flavours, and had maybe 10 other, non-vanilla flavours. So when somebody makes a comment on how all these constant retreads of vanilla are getting a bit samey and what about variations on strawberry/chocolate/mint. a customers starts complaining that you shouldn't complain about having so much vanilla ice cream.
I think everybody who's not a total newbie accepts that Marines will always, forever receive more releases. That's to be expected and most have consigned themselves to it. It's that after years of gripes about this being such a prevalent thing, they seem to be doubling down on it even more, which is why it's so immensely frustrating to people who don't main loyalist Marines.
Something I find very curious is the “Land Speeder” is painted up to be possibly a Blood Angel (Red with yellow helmet) while the “Bikes” are Ultramarine. As far as I was aware, the next few logical story beats won’t involve these chapters. I wonder if this is leaked from something coming after the next few Psychic Awakening chapters?
Your analogy's a poor one anyway. If Games Workshop was called 'The Space Marine Workshop' and literally sold nothing but Space Marines, you'd have a point. You don't see anybody complaining when more Space Marines being added to 30k now, do you? (Other than people asking for 40k rules) It's more like if an ice cream parlour sold 50 flavours of vanilla, with multiple variations WITHIN some of those flavours, and had maybe 10 other, non-vanilla flavours. So when somebody makes a comment on how all these constant retreads of vanilla are getting a bit samey and what about variations on strawberry/chocolate/mint. a customers starts complaining that you shouldn't complain about having so much vanilla ice cream.
I do love it when someone takes an analogy - a basic, casual illustrative tool - and complains that the analogy isn't precise enough, then proceeds to make a stricter, more complex, and in their opinion, better analogy. The best people do this Your analogy is absolute nonsense btw. Almost lunatic. Imoofc.
If GW had, cadded up, a brand new oldmarine bike set ready to go from the last wave of marines in late 5th, and they decided to release them alongside the new primaris landspeeder, just to mess with everybody.
I know they would just change the CAD to make them primaris marines, which is tbh probably what's been done here, but it's a funny thought.
I will gladly sit and wait out any primaris release that is a direct 1 for 1 replacement of some other neglected unit from the oldmarine arsenal that my friends can just proxy as the new primaris sculpt. You won't hear a peep of complaint from me for any release like that. I do wish they'd hurry up and pull the band-aid off, though. If I were in charge of the primaris roll-out, here's what I'd do:
1) Release a new Primaris wave with Assault Aggressors, a full Suppressor kit with more gun options, Assault Inceptors, the new bikers, the new land speeder, and a new Siege repulsor variant.
2) Declare that Primaris can use all the flyers, drop pods, Land Raiders, declare 'em all Primaris-inclusive.
3) release a guideline of what oldmarine sculpts "count as" what primaris sculpts for official GW events.
Scouts with Sniper Rifles = Eliminators with Sniper Rifles
Tactical Marines with Boltguns = Intercessors with Bolt Rifles
Tactical Terminators = Bolt Aggressors
Assault Terminators = Assault Aggressors
Vindicator = Siege Repulsor
Move the oldmarine rules to legends, and give most of the minis in peoples' collections a route to become Primarisized.
Maybe release a "Primaris Veterans" sprue with a new unit profile that includes a primaris sized lascannon, missile launcher, heavy boltgun, meltagun, plasma gun, and Flamer so older space marine squad loadouts can now have a place in the direct conversion.
Forcing their consumers to undergo this brutal planned obsolescence cycle is alienating enough of their whale consumers that they needed to drive sales with a huge competitive rules boost. Fully half of the people where I play who were huge, constant consumers have declared themselves "never Primaris" and have ceased buying in and sometimes ceased playing at all, going from our most active players to our least or gone entirely.
I might be mistaken, but to me it looks as if there are two Marines on the new bikes.
A few peopel have said that. I think it would look pretty stupid, like a couple of chums taking a nice ride on a tandem. I wouldn't put it past the design team though. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put both a severed head and a hunting hawk in the hand of that WS Primaris captain may indeed also think that tandem assault bikers looks pretty frikkin cool.
Yeah, combat pillion riders always look rubbish... oh wait, no they dont
In the case of Marines it's probably more about deviation from a long established aesthetic. You want two Marines on a bike, add a sidecar. GW's persistent deviation from established Marine aesthetic with Primaris is one of the bigger complaints about them, after all.
That said, given all GW has done so far Primaris are so tacticool that bike design would look right at home with them. But as sketched further up, that doesn't seem to be the case and we'll only get a single rider.
diepotato47 wrote: Something I find very curious is the “Land Speeder” is painted up to be possibly a Blood Angel (Red with yellow helmet) while the “Bikes” are Ultramarine. As far as I was aware, the next few logical story beats won’t involve these chapters. I wonder if this is leaked from something coming after the next few Psychic Awakening chapters?
Yeah, a new Psychic Awakening entry like that wouldn't hit until April (not that that's a long wait) but there's always the possibility that one of the next three volumes features rules for those other forces but has a narrative in which a combined Marine force swoops in in the end to save the day.
Adding on, possibly related, the Rumour Engine just posted up a sword scabbard with a chalice icon, not unlike a Blood Angel one. Maybe this next wave will have some Blood Angel exclusive gear?
the_scotsman wrote: I will gladly sit and wait out any primaris release that is a direct 1 for 1 replacement of some other neglected unit from the oldmarine arsenal that my friends can just proxy as the new primaris sculpt. You won't hear a peep of complaint from me for any release like that. I do wish they'd hurry up and pull the band-aid off, though. If I were in charge of the primaris roll-out, here's what I'd do:
1) Release a new Primaris wave with Assault Aggressors, a full Suppressor kit with more gun options, Assault Inceptors, the new bikers, the new land speeder, and a new Siege repulsor variant.
2) Declare that Primaris can use all the flyers, drop pods, Land Raiders, declare 'em all Primaris-inclusive.
3) release a guideline of what oldmarine sculpts "count as" what primaris sculpts for official GW events.
Scouts with Sniper Rifles = Eliminators with Sniper Rifles
Tactical Marines with Boltguns = Intercessors with Bolt Rifles
Tactical Terminators = Bolt Aggressors
Assault Terminators = Assault Aggressors
Vindicator = Siege Repulsor
Move the oldmarine rules to legends, and give most of the minis in peoples' collections a route to become Primarisized.
Maybe release a "Primaris Veterans" sprue with a new unit profile that includes a primaris sized lascannon, missile launcher, heavy boltgun, meltagun, plasma gun, and Flamer so older space marine squad loadouts can now have a place in the direct conversion.
Why would they ever do this? The whole reason they made primaris marines in the first place is that they figured they already sold everyone more tactical marines than they could ever need. Primaris marines are a way of rendering everyone's existing collection of tactical marines worthless. This of course accomplishes 2 things: 1) forces everyone to repurchase their space marine army to remain current, and 2) destroys the secondary market for tactical marines.
This is why there will always be separate (worse) rules for tactical marines in the codex and eventually in Legends. As long as tactical marines have their own rules you have to use them, you can't counts as primaris and still be WYSIWYG. Thereby the forced obsolescence is maintained.
the_scotsman wrote: I will gladly sit and wait out any primaris release that is a direct 1 for 1 replacement of some other neglected unit from the oldmarine arsenal that my friends can just proxy as the new primaris sculpt. You won't hear a peep of complaint from me for any release like that. I do wish they'd hurry up and pull the band-aid off, though. If I were in charge of the primaris roll-out, here's what I'd do:
1) Release a new Primaris wave with Assault Aggressors, a full Suppressor kit with more gun options, Assault Inceptors, the new bikers, the new land speeder, and a new Siege repulsor variant.
2) Declare that Primaris can use all the flyers, drop pods, Land Raiders, declare 'em all Primaris-inclusive.
3) release a guideline of what oldmarine sculpts "count as" what primaris sculpts for official GW events.
Scouts with Sniper Rifles = Eliminators with Sniper Rifles
Tactical Marines with Boltguns = Intercessors with Bolt Rifles
Tactical Terminators = Bolt Aggressors
Assault Terminators = Assault Aggressors
Vindicator = Siege Repulsor
Move the oldmarine rules to legends, and give most of the minis in peoples' collections a route to become Primarisized.
Maybe release a "Primaris Veterans" sprue with a new unit profile that includes a primaris sized lascannon, missile launcher, heavy boltgun, meltagun, plasma gun, and Flamer so older space marine squad loadouts can now have a place in the direct conversion.
Why would they ever do this? The whole reason they made primaris marines in the first place is that they figured they already sold everyone more tactical marines than they could ever need. Primaris marines are a way of rendering everyone's existing collection of tactical marines worthless. This of course accomplishes 2 things: 1) forces everyone to repurchase their space marine army to remain current, and 2) destroys the secondary market for tactical marines.
This is why there will always be separate (worse) rules for tactical marines in the codex and eventually in Legends. As long as tactical marines have their own rules you have to use them, you can't counts as primaris and still be WYSIWYG. Thereby the forced obsolescence is maintained.
multiple people at the place I play have already done that, because they like the primaris rules but prefer the other armor mark marines and had already started HH collections.
Nobody has a problem with it. It's consistent, they're all armed with boltguns, it is literally exactly as confusing as my metal wraithguard or someone else's metal terminators.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was someone trolling the already frustrated community. The giant over pixelation is hilarious. It reads to me as intentional and it would be so easy to hide a bad Photoshop attempt. Someone could have taken pieces of images from repulsers and the old speeder and slapped them together then blurred them.
Could of course be accurate, but it could also be the current years version of pancake 40k.
To me the pixelation being this bad points to the fact that the image is a thumbnail picture that someone managed to grab online due to a GW screwup (assuming it is indeed legit and also not an intentional leak)
There should be some reveals this Saturday at the New Year Open Day. If it's legit (which it really looks like it is), this is when we will officially see it, IMHO.
Even if those blurry Bikes are the old ones, there's no denying that they are on larger oval bases at least. IMO, that lends credence to them NOT being the older bikes.
GW may repackage some models on new bases, but it just doesn't seem to have a point in the case of the old bike when you could just make Primaris bikes
Could be that GW will release a BA supplemental to the Space Marine Codex. They could then include BA specific units within that supplement. It would also unify BA with the existing space marine codex.
Your analogy's a poor one anyway. If Games Workshop was called 'The Space Marine Workshop' and literally sold nothing but Space Marines, you'd have a point. You don't see anybody complaining when more Space Marines being added to 30k now, do you? (Other than people asking for 40k rules) It's more like if an ice cream parlour sold 50 flavours of vanilla, with multiple variations WITHIN some of those flavours, and had maybe 10 other, non-vanilla flavours. So when somebody makes a comment on how all these constant retreads of vanilla are getting a bit samey and what about variations on strawberry/chocolate/mint. a customers starts complaining that you shouldn't complain about having so much vanilla ice cream.
I do love it when someone takes an analogy - a basic, casual illustrative tool - and complains that the analogy isn't precise enough, then proceeds to make a stricter, more complex, and in their opinion, better analogy. The best people do this Your analogy is absolute nonsense btw. Almost lunatic. Imoofc.
I rather like it... but I'm mostly a.fantasy guy, and don't have a dog in this fight.
But then how will they get you to buy all new drop pods?
Frankly, assuming that the new pod is (somehow!) better looking than the old one, I'm fine with that too. I just want to put my Primaris in a Drop Pod. If that involves buying new pods, so be it.
BrianDavion wrote: And I agree with him, Sisters should totally get a flyer
Again, it's not just Sisters that miss a flyer. And, more generally, it's not just primaris that lack some, or even a lot, of battlefield roles. Yet those other armies don't get anything like primaris get.
BrianDavion wrote: a super heavy well.. yeah no not every army has those
Hey BrianDavion, remember that this was Xenomancer's argument:
“Primaris marines lack a lot of things actually. No flyer, no dedicated tank, only 1 super heavy.”
Apparently, according to him, having only one superheavy is really not enough. Argue it with him, not with me. I'm just here saying other armies don't even have one, and they don't get release wave after release wave, meaning “If you think about it that way. There really is no reason to complain.” is false, there is still plenty of reasons to complain.
Also why is the “no dedicated tank”? Primaris have the Impulsor, Repulsor and Repulsor Executionner. That's one troop transport, one hybrid troop transport/shooty, and one shooty tank. Same as what Sisters have, except Sisters have been limited to these 3 for 17 years. Apparently that didn't require a new release for them. Adeptus Mechanicus have only 2 tanks, the two Skorpius variant, with one of them being also a transport. Dark Eldars have the usual 2-variant shooty and transport too, with the Raider and the ravager, plus the tiny Venom. Really, with those 3 vehicles, Primaris are already about at the average number of vehicles for a faction, including very old factions, while they are brand new. Xenomancer's argument make absolutely 0 sense.
Alpharius wrote: They should actually hope for a *faster* release for all the Primaris stuff - once it’s all out, GW will have time to move on to all those neglected lines!
As multiple people have pointed out already, this is a silly assertion, implying that Space Marine releases isn't a bottomless pit. Centurions proved otherwise. Various random flyers different for every chapter and their dog proved otherwise. Random new kind of Terminator suits proved otherwise. Hunter+ the other tank whose name I can't remember proved otherwise. Primaris proved otherwise. And that's not even counting the extra-dumb chapters, getting stuff like Santa on a sleigh.
“Let's put stuff faster into the bottomless pit, we will fill it faster” sounds like a gambler who is sure he'll be rich if he just mortgage his house to get enough money to play again and win it all back, at that point.
Drop pod deep strike doesn't really need a model really. Just let the models be deployed via deepstriking.
That's just silly. They arrive via Drop Pod, the pod must be there. It cannot just vanish.
It worked that way just fine back in 3rd edition. Just go back to depicting pods in the old Epic flower petal style where they basically deployed flat and didn't affect LoS.
PiñaColada wrote: To me the pixelation being this bad points to the fact that the image is a thumbnail picture that someone managed to grab online due to a GW screwup (assuming it is indeed legit and also not an intentional leak)
I tought quite similar a thumbnail from like a side image from WD next month page or something quickly grabbed from another screen, the simple fact it's just cropped and zoomed into the primaris stuff instead showing anything else means it was a quickly photo from something not allowed to be seen yet.
At the end of the day, this is all a problem of GW's own creation. Primaris "need" bikers, assault marines, flyers, dedicated tanks/hybrid tank transports/dedicated transports/a deep strike vehicle kit only because the marine lineup was complete to the point of absurdity, and GW made the call to hack it all off at the ankles to start over AND to do it differently than they'd done before, i.e. actively obsoleting their players' armies to force them to be rebought.
When new models come out for...pretty much anyone but primaris, old minis you already had are at least not useless. Marine players with Primaris are being told that either they have to be a consumer whale, dropping 250+ dollars every couple months to get the new slightly altered marine units that they can't use any of their existing collection to get, or they just...don't get to have decent rules for their stuff.
People who made the decision to buy in to GW's pushing of the increasingly fractured space marine ranges are now being blatantly punished for refusing to pony up for the initial primaris ranges. Hey, two years ago when we released Deathwatch as this super-customizable bespoke space marine kitbashing enthusiast's dream, did you drop 500 dollars on a 2,000 point army? Well feth you, we are extremely purposefully hamstringing your army as part of our efforts to get more people to adopt the Primaris brand-shift. You don't even get a choice to adopt the new primaris kits in your army, and the rules in the codexes we are trying to push the primaris in are so massively better than the rules in your codex you might as well not even come to the table.
Oh, you took a Land Raider out of your codex, and your opponent took an identical Land Raider out of their Imperial Fists supplement? Theirs does literally double the damage to yours on average.
fun stuff, but GW is using the balance of their own game as a cudgel to drive people to have to buy.
WS3+ BS3+ S6 T6 W9 A4 Ld8 Sv3+ Mv14"
Comes with Twin Heavy Bolter. Can purchase Twin Laz talon's, Quad Fragstorm launchers, or Twin-XXX rocketpods. Can also take an Aegis array for a 5++ or the deep strike blocking thing.
But then how will they get you to buy all new drop pods?
Frankly, assuming that the new pod is (somehow!) better looking than the old one, I'm fine with that too. I just want to put my Primaris in a Drop Pod. If that involves buying new pods, so be it.
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
That's just stupid. And it would still be visible, it cannot completely vanish.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because this is a model game and I want to represent stuff with cool looking models! Isn't it pretty damn obvious?
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
That's just stupid. And it would still be visible, it cannot completely vanish.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because this is a model game and I want to represent stuff with cool looking models! Isn't it pretty damn obvious?
Do you have a wreckage terrain/model for each vehicle that gets destroyed? Or are you happy for those to vanish?
It's just an abstraction, the game used drop pods for more than 1 edition with no model, why on earth would my guys on the table want to waste fire on a drop pod? Its empty and unable to move, it literally doesn't contribute in a fluff perspective.
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
That's just stupid. And it would still be visible, it cannot completely vanish.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because this is a model game and I want to represent stuff with cool looking models! Isn't it pretty damn obvious?
Do you have a wreckage terrain/model for each vehicle that gets destroyed? Or are you happy for those to vanish?
It's just an abstraction, the game used drop pods for more than 1 edition with no model, why on earth would my guys on the table want to waste fire on a drop pod? Its empty and landed, it literally doesn't contribute in a fluff perspective.
I have a few wrecked models for common models, and failing that I have some nice looking smoke.
Yeah, I want to see destruction represented on the tabletop. I hate that they removed that from the gameplay in 8th.
Do you have a wreckage terrain/model for each vehicle that gets destroyed? Or are you happy for those to vanish?
I am not happy that the vanish. It is weird. Leaving the model in plave, maybe with some smoke or fire marker was a common practice previously. A wreck model would be ideal, but unfortunately I don't have those and current rules do not support such.
It's just an abstraction, the game used drop pods for more than 1 edition with no model, why on earth would my guys on the table want to waste fire on a drop pod? Its empty and landed, it literally doesn't contribute in a fluff perspective.
Do you use terrain? This is a bloody bizarre argument. I want models for stuff in a model game, not a fething weird concept!
If the picture s genuine, then what publication is it from ?
It's blood angels and Ultramarines .......one of which has been done in PA and the other isn't likely to be in the future books.
An absolute outlier would be that the last book sees Sanguinus return, meaning those forces in photosgraphs in that book and a reason why Primaris would get more assault based wargear.
More likely it's a fake using the Heresy speeder photoshopped.
Do you have a wreckage terrain/model for each vehicle that gets destroyed? Or are you happy for those to vanish?
I am not happy that the vanish. It is weird. Leaving the model in plave, maybe with some smoke or fire marker was a common practice previously. A wreck model would be ideal, but unfortunately I don't have those and current rules do not support such.
It's just an abstraction, the game used drop pods for more than 1 edition with no model, why on earth would my guys on the table want to waste fire on a drop pod? Its empty and landed, it literally doesn't contribute in a fluff perspective.
Do you use terrain? This is a bloody bizarre argument. I want models for stuff in a model game, not a fething weird concept!
Ofc I use terrain, but I don't model an off-board teleportarium.
The point is the drop pod exists 100% to get marines onto the ground. Once they're there, it doesn't matter any more, so why bother making rules and a model beyond: unit arrives from deepstrike.
But then how will they get you to buy all new drop pods?
Frankly, assuming that the new pod is (somehow!) better looking than the old one, I'm fine with that too. I just want to put my Primaris in a Drop Pod. If that involves buying new pods, so be it.
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because dropping from orbit with a model costs money and dropping from orbit without a model is free.
Frankly i think drop pods look like eyesores, but if you want yet another model, im sure a primaris brand drop pod will be a thing to buy up. Gw isn't gonna pass that up. to iconic, and it's not like there weren't drop pod variants with guns as is. they are missing those new stubbers!
Ofc I use terrain, but I don't model an off-board teleportarium.
Because the teleportarium is not on the battlefield, unlike the bloody drop pod that just dropped there!
The point is the drop pod exists 100% to get marines onto the ground. Once they're there, it doesn't matter any more, so why bother making rules and a model beyond: unit arrives from deepstrike.
No, you got this completely backwards! The purpose of drop pod, just like every model in 40K is to be a nice looking visual representation of a thing that exist in the fiction. The purpose of rules is to give you an excuse to put these models on the table with some nice terrain.
Let's not derail further, if people want to pay for a nice model to represent a rule then all the better foGW and the people it makes happy. I'm all for a nice cinematic table!
Alpharius wrote: They should actually hope for a *faster* release for all the Primaris stuff - once it’s all out, GW will have time to move on to all those neglected lines!
As multiple people have pointed out already, this is a silly assertion, implying that Space Marine releases isn't a bottomless pit. Centurions proved otherwise. Various random flyers different for every chapter and their dog proved otherwise. Random new kind of Terminator suits proved otherwise. Hunter+ the other tank whose name I can't remember proved otherwise. Primaris proved otherwise. And that's not even counting the extra-dumb chapters, getting stuff like Santa on a sleigh.
“Let's put stuff faster into the bottomless pit, we will fill it faster” sounds like a gambler who is sure he'll be rich if he just mortgage his house to get enough money to play again and win it all back, at that point.
HA!
I wasn't being serious!
I agree that the statement makes about as much sense as posting about how much you don't like Primaris marines in a "New Primaris stuff on the horizon" thread.
It's all good though - plenty of room for all sorts of electrons in here.
Just a comment on the bike base size: although the bike models are still shown on old bases on the webstore, they have actually rebased the studio models - they are shown on new oval bases in the latest Codex, and also in Conquest magazine (where oval bases were supplied with the bikes).
Primaris use drop pods in the books because they aren't constrained by awful Sales Team rules. It makes absolutely no sense that a military organization wouldn't use "what works" if its available.
well remember primaris vehicles on average are also more expensive points wise, a repulsor for example, is around twice the points cost of a predator. not to get bogged down in debate between the inherant value of those tanks vs each other, but a Primaris list proably is going to include a smaller number of tanks.
assuming of course GW keeps to the "bigger, tougher and with a stupid amount of guns all for way more points" approuch with new vehicles and designs like the Impulsor aren't going to be the new norm
Nightlord1987 wrote: Jump packs are better than bikes (in this edition), so it was a unit I wasnt expecting to necessarily update.
I actually like Bike units, but fly keyword is much more valuable than an extra wound and t5.
Remember before custodes, when Sammael had the only working Jet bike in the Imperium? And hover tech was reserved for super rare Landspeeders?
I'm glad they're bringing bikes back into the fold, but at this point I have to ask why?
I’d reckon it’s because, outside the Custodes, Sammael’s jetbike is still the only jetbike in the Imperium with smooth, reliable grav-tech. Repulsors and Impulsors use brute anti-grav that pulverizes the ground beneath the vehicles. I’d say they don’t put it on bikes is because they can’t fit such clumsy tech on that small of a chassis.
OrkPlayer137 wrote: Just a comment on the bike base size: although the bike models are still shown on old bases on the webstore, they have actually rebased the studio models - they are shown on new oval bases in the latest Codex, and also in Conquest magazine (where oval bases were supplied with the bikes).
yes, 75mm ovals, not 90mm ovals.
As for the UM and BA mix, this is obviously something post PA, not during. It will be part of 9th edition and later in the year.
The game's deadly enough as it is. Everything can wound everything, and multi-wound-causing weapons just rip apart the things that have been given extra wounds to make them 'tougher', thereby negating their apparent durability. It sure looks good on paper when something has 22 wounds, but those can vanish so quickly these days that we end up paying far more for this facade of toughness than we should.
Anyway, I digress. Primaris drop pods.
Drop Pods hold an interesting place in the product line as they are both highly thematic and appropriate for the Marines, but they're also incredibly dull and don't do an awful lot in games. This means that, as a product, they're not especially attractive en masse.
So the conundrum with Primaris Drop Pods is whether to bother with them in the first place, as I can't imagine that a new line of plastic minis that are completely static, do one thing, and then just sit there doing virtually nothing for the rest of the game is considered a big draw card.
So the conundrum with Primaris Drop Pods is whether to bother with them in the first place, as I can't imagine that a new line of plastic minis that are completely static, do one thing, and then just sit there doing virtually nothing for the rest of the game is considered a big draw card.
Well, if they do a new drop pod model then that gives them an opportunity to change some things. A bit more weapons (but only a bit, let's not go Repulsor-level crazy here!) or some sort of beacons, radar dishes etc that could offer some buffs or other benefits.
hoenstly I thought they missed an oppertunity with the repulsors rather then ahve conventional drop pods, GW could instead of have primaris tanks air droppable so that they dropped in with armor.
they actually could do that anyway go with a light tank, troop capacity 10, a decent gun, give it deep strike, cost it at say.. ~150ish points and it'd be a extremely popular unit.
BrianDavion wrote: hoenstly I thought they missed an oppertunity with the repulsors rather then ahve conventional drop pods, GW could instead of have primaris tanks air droppable so that they dropped in with armor.
they actually could do that anyway go with a light tank, troop capacity 10, a decent gun, give it deep strike, cost it at say.. ~150ish points and it'd be a extremely popular unit.
I remember the fuss when Blood Angels Land Raiders got Deep Strike...
BrianDavion wrote: hoenstly I thought they missed an oppertunity with the repulsors rather then ahve conventional drop pods, GW could instead of have primaris tanks air droppable so that they dropped in with armor.
they actually could do that anyway go with a light tank, troop capacity 10, a decent gun, give it deep strike, cost it at say.. ~150ish points and it'd be a extremely popular unit.
Ugh only if they bring back legacies of ruin so I can give my fellblade outflank again.
Seriously though of all the primaris vehicles not to give fly to they chose the bikes? Guess the Custodes won't share.
And there are interesting drop pods. They're called dreadclaws and loyalists can't have them.
I don't understand where the idea that there are two marines on the bike comes from. Several people have said that, but it pretty obviously is not the case.
Crimson wrote: Well, if they do a new drop pod model then that gives them an opportunity to change some things. A bit more weapons (but only a bit, let's not go Repulsor-level crazy here!) or some sort of beacons, radar dishes etc that could offer some buffs or other benefits.
I think that's the route they'll have to go.
Putting the Chapterhouse debacle aside, I'm sure that part of the reason GW changed from Mycetic Spores to the Tyrannocyte was so that it was something more than just a big gas bubble that lands and does nothing. Now it can move and shoot, and it's alternate build is some weird living bunker thing. Because it can do more things and has more configurations it's more attractive as an item they can sell.
I can see GW releasing a Primaris Drop Pod (the "Flamestrike Breachpod" or some other such nonsense name) that can act as a mini-bunker/turret as well so that it has some actual game impact beyond just arriving and then sitting there looking pretty.
Can we just pretend that we have three pages of this comment and move on to talking about other aspects of this? I mean I get it, I play necrons, we've gotten one new model in the past 8 or so years, so I completely get the frustration. However cathartic it might be to vent one's spleen on this topic, page after page of it isn't interesting or useful.
I disagree ...
The quoted original expresses the following point,
That GeeDubya has boxed themselves into a Disneyesque corner having cheapened their legacy for short term third party profits rather than commit themselves to the health of the community on which they depend.
So we get releases that look nice but are designed to make everything they had done before and that kept a lot of people invested obsolete... yet as they also try to keep us invested the new releases as ridiculously over powered and just cartoonish.
Say what you will about how the game is bigger than ever befire as if this implies a healthy community.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell, not a healthy organism...
GW is malignant.
I don’t know that I want Primaris Drop Pods. As is the different units have their different deployment rules, and giving everyone access to Deep Strike kind of horns in on the one real advantage Reavers really offer.
A Stratagem to air drop their anti-grav tanks could be interesting/amusing though...
Can we just pretend that we have three pages of this comment and move on to talking about other aspects of this? I mean I get it, I play necrons, we've gotten one new model in the past 8 or so years, so I completely get the frustration. However cathartic it might be to vent one's spleen on this topic, page after page of it isn't interesting or useful.
I disagree ...
The quoted original expresses the following point,
That GeeDubya has boxed themselves into a Disneyesque corner having cheapened their legacy for short term third party profits rather than commit themselves to the health of the community on which they depend.
So we get releases that look nice but are designed to make everything they had done before and that kept a lot of people invested obsolete... yet as they also try to keep us invested the new releases as ridiculously over powered and just cartoonish.
Say what you will about how the game is bigger than ever befire as if this implies a healthy community.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell, not a healthy organism...
GW is malignant.
First of all who are the 3rd party profits you mention, because GW would be first party in this scenario. It's been proven time and again, large volumes of new releases suck. Cartoonish is subjective opinion.
To top it off, growth for the sakes of growth is the intent of any profit driven organisation, they want to grow so more people play and buy. Weirdly since you need an opponent to play with, that is actually good for you.
GW's share price / sales / profits suggest a healthy community. Unless someone wants to argue an angry " community" - a word which used in a hobby context usually means " my small world view" - Is somehow still throwing money at GW. Repeatedly.
Can we just pretend that we have three pages of this comment and move on to talking about other aspects of this? I mean I get it, I play necrons, we've gotten one new model in the past 8 or so years, so I completely get the frustration. However cathartic it might be to vent one's spleen on this topic, page after page of it isn't interesting or useful.
I disagree ...
The quoted original expresses the following point,
That GeeDubya has boxed themselves into a Disneyesque corner having cheapened their legacy for short term third party profits rather than commit themselves to the health of the community on which they depend.
So we get releases that look nice but are designed to make everything they had done before and that kept a lot of people invested obsolete... yet as they also try to keep us invested the new releases as ridiculously over powered and just cartoonish.
Say what you will about how the game is bigger than ever befire as if this implies a healthy community.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell, not a healthy organism...
GW is malignant.
First of all who are the 3rd party profits you mention, because GW would be first party in this scenario. It's been proven time and again, large volumes of new releases suck. Cartoonish is subjective opinion.
To top it off, growth for the sakes of growth is the intent of any profit driven organisation, they want to grow so more people play and buy. Weirdly since you need an opponent to play with, that is actually good for you.
I think his disney comparison is proof that he's not firing on all cylinders myself. Disney's had a pheonminal last few years. and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
First of all who are the 3rd party profits you mention, because GW would be first party in this scenario. It's been proven time and again, large volumes of new releases suck. Cartoonish is subjective opinion.
To top it off, growth for the sakes of growth is the intent of any profit driven organisation, they want to grow so more people play and buy. Weirdly since you need an opponent to play with, that is actually good for you.
The third parties are stakeholders without investment in the outcome of those who inhabit the community and through their daily microtransations make corporate profits possible, i.e. the tradtitional Friedmanian "shareholder".
Shareholders are not the primary stakeholders in a contemporary business ethic.
Cartoonish is more objective than you will allow, it seems. We used to have tanks that sacrificed troop carrying capacity for extra power packs for extra energy weapons. Now we have transports that only carry noobs that fly and pack more whallop at the same time and if such power resources are a concern, they are not on the same scale. Cartoonish.
There is a difference between healthy organ in a healthy ecosystem and imperial bubble blowers for capital gain.
I think his disney comparison is proof that he's not firing on all cylinders myself. Disney's had a pheonminal last few years. and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
I have always felt that the Space Marines range (and now Primaris) is a way for GW to try new sculpting, tooling and other production techniques.
I remember the Land Raider being their biggest kit and first attempt at functioning doors and things like that.
This means other ranges benefit from experiments made during marine development. Yes this means there was a wait for new Orks, chaos Marines, etc. However we did get some and the kits have been of an amazing quality.
First of all who are the 3rd party profits you mention, because GW would be first party in this scenario. It's been proven time and again, large volumes of new releases suck. Cartoonish is subjective opinion.
To top it off, growth for the sakes of growth is the intent of any profit driven organisation, they want to grow so more people play and buy. Weirdly since you need an opponent to play with, that is actually good for you.
The third parties are stakeholders without investment in the outcome of those who inhabit the community and through their daily microtransations make corporate profits possible, i.e. the tradtitional Friedmanian "shareholder".
Shareholders are not the primary stakeholders in a contemporary business ethic.
Cartoonish is more objective than you will allow, it seems. We used to have tanks that sacrificed troop carrying capacity for extra power packs for extra energy weapons. Now we have transports that only carry noobs that fly and pack more whallop at the same time and if such power resources are a concern, they are not on the same scale. Cartoonish.
There is a difference between healthy organ in a healthy ecosystem and imperial bubble blowers for capital gain.
I think his disney comparison is proof that he's not firing on all cylinders myself. Disney's had a pheonminal last few years. and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Have they? Really?
in 2019 they've cracked the billion dollar mark 6 times. (frozen II, Toy Story 4, Aladin, Captain Marvel, The Lioon King, and Avegers endgame, which set a world record) Rise of Skywalker will almost certainly likewise pass the billion dollar mark.
and no, shareholders have a vested intreast in the sucess of the product, the idea that the people who invest money into the game somehow have less of an intreast then a rabid fan, is... rediculas.
BrianDavion wrote: hoenstly I thought they missed an oppertunity with the repulsors rather then ahve conventional drop pods, GW could instead of have primaris tanks air droppable so that they dropped in with armor.
they actually could do that anyway go with a light tank, troop capacity 10, a decent gun, give it deep strike, cost it at say.. ~150ish points and it'd be a extremely popular unit.
I remember the fuss when Blood Angels Land Raiders got Deep Strike...
I think there's a slight difference between having people believe in the viability of dropping Land Raiders from any kind of altitude and doing the same with tanks that already fly on their own. It's an easier sell and already established with Land Speeders.
Alpharius wrote: I agree that the statement makes about as much sense as posting about how much you don't like Primaris marines in a "New Primaris stuff on the horizon" thread.
Ah, you are not being serious again! I'm getting better at finding out now: every time you say something that sounds incredibly silly, it's because you are not being serious! You never say silly things seriously!
I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
Wow. You're convincing 0 people to your own point while insulting others. I'm shocked as to why these people still do it!
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
I get the feeling you'd complain no matter what it was, also wut?
Sentineil wrote: Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
Currently in the process of rebuilding my GKs, try having some real problems.
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
By your logic, that would mean guardsmen would get a lot more this edition. Instead, they’ve actually lost miniatures since they won’t sell us steel legion, vostroyans and mordians anymore.
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
By your logic, that would mean guardsmen would get a lot more this edition. Instead, they’ve actually lost miniatures since they won’t sell us steel legion, vostroyans and mordians anymore.
This is going to take some explaining, because I really don't see where you're coming from? Are you saying IG are GW's largest demographic?
I'd love to see some new Guard too. I was hoping with the new cultists with BF that we might finally see a new base range, but alas, not the case.
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
By your logic, that would mean guardsmen would get a lot more this edition. Instead, they’ve actually lost miniatures since they won’t sell us steel legion, vostroyans and mordians anymore.
This is going to take some explaining, because I really don't see where you're coming from? Are you saying IG are GW's largest demographic?
I'd love to see some new Guard too. I was hoping with the new cultists with BF that we might finally see a new base range, but alas, not the case.
Guardsmen are third in popularity polls, space marines and chaos are first and second respectively in those polls. Demographically, they are a very popular army. So by your logic, if they are going by demographic and most popular armies, guardsmen should’ve gotten more, but they haven’t. They haven’t been getting anything major since 6th edition.
Also, looking around sites searching for best sellers, Tau are a very good selling army. But I’m going to let that slide since they’re range has had a very good update last edition.
Third: Games Workshop is currently doing extremely well in profits, so they are currently in a position of taking risks with what they sell.
Selfcontrol wrote: According to one of the usual reliable french rumor monger, the models on the blurred picture are not going to be released anytime soon.
So, more like 9th edition summer 2020, or even later?
Anyway, no one ought to be surprised primaris will get more models.
Selfcontrol wrote: According to one of the usual reliable french rumor monger, the models on the blurred picture are not going to be released anytime soon.
This feels like the 9th starter box type of stuff to me. Considering they're releasing SoB soon and 9th edition will surely get a boxset with its launch I find it doubtful that whatever boxset they've planned for spring isn't tied to one of the PAs but instead another SM box.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Seems pretty odd that they didn't include these in the 4 month old Space Marine Codex. There's no way these weren't finished models even before the codex released. One reason I stopped playing 40k was the constant invalidation of books even months after release. I guess in this case the Codex isnt invalid, but when I used to buy a codex, I expected that for at least a year I wouldn't need any other rules documents and models. If Primaris are released at this rate, how long till SM codex 3.0 and 6 more supplements to buy?
Amen. Entire year without more marine models would be nice. Oee can hope
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Seems pretty odd that they didn't include these in the 4 month old Space Marine Codex. There's no way these weren't finished models even before the codex released. One reason I stopped playing 40k was the constant invalidation of books even months after release. I guess in this case the Codex isnt invalid, but when I used to buy a codex, I expected that for at least a year I wouldn't need any other rules documents and models. If Primaris are released at this rate, how long till SM codex 3.0 and 6 more supplements to buy?
Amen. Entire year without more marine models would be nice. Oee can hope
Almost as though the game should have rules through a loving PDF and we should stop giving GW money for their printed material overall!
Personally I find the starter box thing a bit hard to believe. Even if its just the new stuff, a speeder, bikes and a new tank in one set seems unlikely.
Third: Games Workshop is currently doing extremely well in profits, so they are currently in a position of taking risks with what they sell.
Too bad they're not taking risks, though.
Instead their rehashing the codex cycle at triple speed (plus extra rules revisions), and not pushing new products without limited time only boxed sets that seem to far underestimate demand (intentionally, so they're guaranteed to sell out). Even Sisters required the community survey to do the heavy lifting of taking a 'risk.' And they still hedged their bets with a monopose box 3 months before the actual release to gauge interest and demand. (Which is good business, but not taking risks)
With the current setting state, half the imperium in the dark for a century plus timey-whimey warp nonsense, this would be the perfect time to take a risk and push a new* faction or xenos army, either something brand new, or howling in from the halo stars or enslaver resurgence or literally whatever.
But instead they're sticking hard to rehashing, and not taking any risks at all. Maybe that will stop with the new production facilities, but we'll see.
AoS seems to take more risks than 40k (which seems ironic), but goes for very tiny faction releases to mitigate it.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Personally I find the starter box thing a bit hard to believe. Even if its just the new stuff, a speeder, bikes and a new tank in one set seems unlikely.
But if they were, and OG marines got 2 wounds like they should have, and numarines got levelled down to common sense (confirming that codices are imperial propaganda, therefore accounting for the grav malarkey and bristle cannons everywhere on the relatively undercosted numarine armor and transports), then even I might pull the trigger on an update to the marine wing of the collection...
GoatboyBeta wrote: Personally I find the starter box thing a bit hard to believe. Even if its just the new stuff, a speeder, bikes and a new tank in one set seems unlikely.
I mean, all of that in one set? Yeah. Not gonna happen.
But the bikes and speeder coming as part of a Shadowspear styled set, built around an Outrider Detachment? Plausible.
The tank getting released on its own at the same time? Plausible.
First of all who are the 3rd party profits you mention, because GW would be first party in this scenario. It's been proven time and again, large volumes of new releases suck. Cartoonish is subjective opinion.
To top it off, growth for the sakes of growth is the intent of any profit driven organisation, they want to grow so more people play and buy. Weirdly since you need an opponent to play with, that is actually good for you.
The third parties are stakeholders without investment in the outcome of those who inhabit the community and through their daily microtransations make corporate profits possible, i.e. the tradtitional Friedmanian "shareholder".
Shareholders are not the primary stakeholders in a contemporary business ethic.
Cartoonish is more objective than you will allow, it seems. We used to have tanks that sacrificed troop carrying capacity for extra power packs for extra energy weapons. Now we have transports that only carry noobs that fly and pack more whallop at the same time and if such power resources are a concern, they are not on the same scale. Cartoonish.
There is a difference between healthy organ in a healthy ecosystem and imperial bubble blowers for capital gain.
I think his disney comparison is proof that he's not firing on all cylinders myself. Disney's had a pheonminal last few years. and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Have they? Really?
in 2019 they've cracked the billion dollar mark 6 times. (frozen II, Toy Story 4, Aladin, Captain Marvel, The Lioon King, and Avegers endgame, which set a world record) Rise of Skywalker will almost certainly likewise pass the billion dollar mark.
But in relation to Star Wars which was, I believe, the original point of reference, they're floundering. Disney paid 4bn dollars for Star Wars, and even if you make generous assumptions when estimating stuff(marketing budget and reshoot numbers on the conservative end of what's possible, merchandising sales of any significance, and a 50% take of the global box office for each movie) they've made at best 2-2.5bn from the IP, prior to TRoS & The Mandalorian. In other words, after eight years and five movies, in the best case scenario, and assuming the presently released products do very well, they've broken even. With what was one of if not the biggest movie franchises ever to exist, prior to the MCU being a thing.
Nobody sane can believe that's a success story, either by Disney's standards or just in general.
and no, shareholders have a vested intreast in the sucess of the product, the idea that the people who invest money into the game somehow have less of an intreast then a rabid fan, is... rediculas.
This comment is just funny IMO. Shareholders have a vested interest in exactly two things; the share price of the company, and the size & frequency of the dividends. Many shareholders are funds, not people, and a company like GW is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the total money they're handling. GW could go broke and collapse into a black hole tomorrow, and most of the groups who hold shares outwith the company's own employees would barely even notice. And we know for a certainty that shareholders don't give a gak how their actual interests are maintained, because they didn't make a fething peep in all the years Kirby was cutting the company to the bone and then trying for the marrow for good measure, relying on an ever-shrinking population of whales to keep things afloat while their market share radically declined, and why would they, for a long time what he was doing kept the share price up and the dividends flowing, which is all they care about.
TwilightSparkles wrote: GW's share price / sales / profits suggest a healthy community. Unless someone wants to argue an angry " community" - a word which used in a hobby context usually means " my small world view" - Is somehow still throwing money at GW. Repeatedly.
Putting aside the specifics(GW actually do seem to be in a reasonably good place at the moment, community wise, though I'm not sure how solid that position is given how much of it seems to be based on canny marketing/community management) - see above. For years, the community was, broadly, angry(really, in the end, depressed), but the company managed to keep its share price and profits mostly steady or growing a bit, because they changed their strategy from targeting a broad base of gamer customers and long-term veterans/grogs(with the goal of turning the former into the latter), to a small base of HHHobbyists who'd pay any price for their plastic crack providing it had a GW logo on the box and rolling new customers for as much as they could in their initial couple of purchases(after which they gave no gaks whether they stuck around or not).
Third: Games Workshop is currently doing extremely well in profits, so they are currently in a position of taking risks with what they sell.
Too bad they're not taking risks, though.
Instead their rehashing the codex cycle at triple speed (plus extra rules revisions), and not pushing new products without limited time only boxed sets that seem to far underestimate demand (intentionally, so they're guaranteed to sell out). Even Sisters required the community survey to do the heavy lifting of taking a 'risk.' And they still hedged their bets with a monopose box 3 months before the actual release to gauge interest and demand. (Which is good business, but not taking risks)
With the current setting state, half the imperium in the dark for a century plus timey-whimey warp nonsense, this would be the perfect time to take a risk and push a new* faction or xenos army, either something brand new, or howling in from the halo stars or enslaver resurgence or literally whatever.
But instead they're sticking hard to rehashing, and not taking any risks at all. Maybe that will stop with the new production facilities, but we'll see.
AoS seems to take more risks than 40k (which seems ironic), but goes for very tiny faction releases to mitigate it.
Whoops. That one slipped up. Didn’t want to imply they’re taking risks. Wanted to actually say that they are in a position where they could take risks, but aren’t.
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
You mean like the endless complaining by SM players prior to supplements?? Because you know they didn't get to have their cake their cake and eat it too.
You mean like the endless complaining by SM players prior to supplements?? Because you know they didn't get to have their cake their cake and eat it too.
You mean the "endless complaining" that was centered primarily around them dragging it out in a ridiculous manner when they could have been releasing other stuff?
You mean like the endless complaining by SM players prior to supplements?? Because you know they didn't get to have their cake their cake and eat it too.
You mean the "endless complaining" that was centered primarily around them dragging it out in a ridiculous manner when they could have been releasing other stuff?
You'd be ignoring the constant invasion of threads by certain persons to rail about how "bad" marines are or to whine about IG Infantry Squad.
It's funny when people say GW doesn't listens to the forums. Judging by how much they overshot with the Marine rules, it seems like they were listening too well!
Sentineil wrote: Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it
You'll need a WHOLE LOT more neglect than this to even begin to understand pal, lol.
Good grief, you should go to a support group and tell them of the tremendous neglect gw has caused upon you and all the unsuspecting players.
This is getting ridiculous.
it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
ohh I agree. you get these threads buried with people complaining about marines, and it's the same handful of people. It got so bad on the Psykic awakening thread the mods started issuing bans.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Seems pretty odd that they didn't include these in the 4 month old Space Marine Codex. There's no way these weren't finished models even before the codex released. One reason I stopped playing 40k was the constant invalidation of books even months after release. I guess in this case the Codex isnt invalid, but when I used to buy a codex, I expected that for at least a year I wouldn't need any other rules documents and models. If Primaris are released at this rate, how long till SM codex 3.0 and 6 more supplements to buy?
Amen. Entire year without more marine models would be nice. Oee can hope
Almost as though the game should have rules through a loving PDF and we should stop giving GW money for their printed material overall!
Well the ebook saves you 7e if you go for less convenient epub that's pain in the ass to look up mid game or 0.5e if you go for more usable enchanced edition but then you need to buy ipad with the apple tax just for that. The 320e or so for cheapest apple in local store means I need to just buy 640 codexes to break even
Sentineil wrote: Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it
You'll need a WHOLE LOT more neglect than this to even begin to understand pal, lol.
Good grief, you should go to a support group and tell them of the tremendous neglect gw has caused upon you and all the unsuspecting players.
This is getting ridiculous.
it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
Which have been neglected for about 2 decades and will be sitting with xenos on trible updates for the next couple decades again.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, I've got plans for a sisters army myself so I hope you're wrong, but sadly I doubt it.
They are are not marines so once the releases for this codex are done(likely in 2 waves. Most in january/february(I think 1.2 is store date), rest later. Like seraphim who were said to be "sometime next year") then future releases will be sparse.
If you are not marine you can't be sure of getting even one release in a year.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, I've got plans for a sisters army myself so I hope you're wrong, but sadly I doubt it.
They are are not marines so once the releases for this codex are done(likely in 2 waves. Most in january/february(I think 1.2 is store date), rest later. Like seraphim who were said to be "sometime next year") then future releases will be sparse.
If you are not marine you can't be sure of getting even one release in a year.
That's.... normal? it's weird for any faction to be assured a release each year.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, I've got plans for a sisters army myself so I hope you're wrong, but sadly I doubt it.
They are are not marines so once the releases for this codex are done(likely in 2 waves. Most in january/february(I think 1.2 is store date), rest later. Like seraphim who were said to be "sometime next year") then future releases will be sparse.
If you are not marine you can't be sure of getting even one release in a year.
That's.... normal? it's weird for any faction to be assured a release each year.
even MARINES getting a release each year isn't exactly reliable, unless you insist that all marine varient codices are the same. and even then I think we had nearly two years between the repulsor executioner and the last marine release
I mean, I understand it's sort of a joke even GW are in on at this point but how many months are there between every generic primaris lieutenant release?
Yes, marines get more releases than other armies. Also GW minis are expensive, their rules are poorly balanced and water is wet.
One would imagine that at some point constantly whining about the same things that everyone knows and which are not going to change would get old, but apparently not.
I just hope that if the new bikes and landspeeder end up being in a box (with whatever else is in there to make an outrider detachment most likely), then the opposing force get just as much new stuff. The shadowspear box was absolutely fantastic and really helped lifting chaos out of the dark ages so the fact that normal SM also got a ton of stuff really shouldn't bother people all that much. If this was to be a box in the same type of vein, all new stuff for two forces SM vs ???, then that's a compromise I feel like plenty of people would be okay with (some would still hate it of course).
Honestly, insert any Xeno force into a shadowspear type boxset release wave and they'd be deserving and in all likelyhood ecstatic to be thought of.
PiñaColada wrote: I just hope that if the new bikes and landspeeder end up being in a box (with whatever else is in there to make an outrider detachment most likely), then the opposing force get just as much new stuff. The shadowspear box was absolutely fantastic and really helped lifting chaos out of the dark ages so the fact that normal SM also got a ton of stuff really shouldn't bother people all that much. If this was to be a box in the same type of vein, all new stuff for two forces SM vs ???, then that's a compromise I feel like plenty of people would be okay with (some would still hate it of course).
Honestly, insert any Xeno force into a shadowspear type boxset release wave and they'd be deserving and in all likelyhood ecstatic to be thought of.
As long as it isn't Chaos Space Marines. Make it a Xenos force of some sort. And price it appropriately, for God's sake. More Eldar or Dark Eldar (another Aspect or two for Eldar or Mandrakes for Dark Eldar) would be welcome to me.
Crimson wrote: Yes, marines get more releases than other armies. Also GW minis are expensive, their rules are poorly balanced and water is wet.
One would imagine that at some point constantly whining about the same things that everyone knows and which are not going to change would get old, but apparently not.
Have you considered that GW isn't just responsible for this because of neglect, ever increasing pricing and bad rules writing but because now even the one good thing they did turns against them and people want to make use of GW's suggested interest in listening to its customers' concerns?
And it's not like GW is ambiguous about it either. We have plastic Sisters now. What message does that send? If we can make plastic Sisters happen, we can make anything happen.
That gives a lot of people hope that if they voice their complaints insistently enough, they may actually get addressed. It's... optimistic to hope for people to just stop asking GW for change for the better the first time in decades that GW actually seems interested in customer feedback.
PiñaColada wrote: I just hope that if the new bikes and landspeeder end up being in a box (with whatever else is in there to make an outrider detachment most likely), then the opposing force get just as much new stuff. The shadowspear box was absolutely fantastic and really helped lifting chaos out of the dark ages so the fact that normal SM also got a ton of stuff really shouldn't bother people all that much. If this was to be a box in the same type of vein, all new stuff for two forces SM vs ???, then that's a compromise I feel like plenty of people would be okay with (some would still hate it of course).
Honestly, insert any Xeno force into a shadowspear type boxset release wave and they'd be deserving and in all likelyhood ecstatic to be thought of.
I'm not saying this is what's going to happen, but with all the Traitor Guard models Blackstone Fortress got and people getting the impression it's the sneak introduction to a full army release, and 9th ed probably coming this summer, that would be a great time for a starter set of Primaris versus Traitor Guard. Marines don't even need a new codex so a multipart kit wave to go with the starter set models is all GW has to get out of the way before they can focus on a full army rollout for Traitor Guard thereafter.
I'd hope for something more exotic and xenos, but I think narratively we're still in the Imperium versus Chaos stage with Xenos posing only a fringe threat.
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
ohh I agree. you get these threads buried with people complaining about marines, and it's the same handful of people. It got so bad on the Psykic awakening thread the mods started issuing bans.
Equally - there is a constant (by the same old people) nagging defence of anything and everything related to Marines coupled with a demand for more Marines at the expense of everything else, often a noted sneering disdain and dislike for non Marine factions and anyone who enjoys them..
We know there will be a constant, unrelenting Marine releases - does not make it right.....
We have a blurry image of a Landspeeder (how many are there now??) and maybe some new bikes. - mabe not. Anything else known? Nope hence the usual gradual slip into the realm of off topic as there is no "News" really to talk about....
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
ohh I agree. you get these threads buried with people complaining about marines, and it's the same handful of people. It got so bad on the Psykic awakening thread the mods started issuing bans.
Equally - there is a constant (by the same old people) nagging defence of anything and everything related to Marines coupled with a demand for more Marines at the expense of everything else, often a noted sneering disdain and dislike for non Marine factions and anyone who enjoys them..
We know there will be a constant, unrelenting Marine releases - does not make it right.....
We have a blurry image of a Landspeeder (how many are there now??) and maybe some new bikes. - mabe not. Anything else known? Nope hence the usual gradual slip into the realm of off topic as there is no "News" really to talk about....
Let's be real, there are a few people, you included, who just can't stop whining even when non marine are featured. The pro marine in comparaison are pretty tame.
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
ohh I agree. you get these threads buried with people complaining about marines, and it's the same handful of people. It got so bad on the Psykic awakening thread the mods started issuing bans.
Equally - there is a constant (by the same old people) nagging defence of anything and everything related to Marines coupled with a demand for more Marines at the expense of everything else, often a noted sneering disdain and dislike for non Marine factions and anyone who enjoys them..
We know there will be a constant, unrelenting Marine releases - does not make it right.....
We have a blurry image of a Landspeeder (how many are there now??) and maybe some new bikes. - mabe not. Anything else known? Nope hence the usual gradual slip into the realm of off topic as there is no "News" really to talk about....
I would love to see you find some examples of anyone saying they disliked xenos players whilst asking for more marine releases please.
Sentineil wrote: I can't wait for Xenos to get a release, just so I can go into the thread and endlessly complain about it not being Primaris and why Xenos are bad.
Maybe then I'll understand why everyone incessantly does it, and I too will become Woke to GeeDubya (this takes so much more effort than GW, but I guess it's edgy!).
God damn those businesses observing sales data and year on year growth trends when the real customers know best! Everyone knows that the best way to generate profit and growth isn't to target your largest demographic, it's to re-release Finecast Xenos in plastic! Because everyone totally won't complain that they have to re-buy their existing minis...
You mean like the endless complaining by SM players prior to supplements?? Because you know they didn't get to have their cake their cake and eat it too.
Says it's gak to the customer base when people have to rebuy their existing minis.
Is defending PRIMARIS MARINES???
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PiñaColada wrote: I just hope that if the new bikes and landspeeder end up being in a box (with whatever else is in there to make an outrider detachment most likely), then the opposing force get just as much new stuff. The shadowspear box was absolutely fantastic and really helped lifting chaos out of the dark ages so the fact that normal SM also got a ton of stuff really shouldn't bother people all that much. If this was to be a box in the same type of vein, all new stuff for two forces SM vs ???, then that's a compromise I feel like plenty of people would be okay with (some would still hate it of course).
Honestly, insert any Xeno force into a shadowspear type boxset release wave and they'd be deserving and in all likelyhood ecstatic to be thought of.
Yeah that'd be amazing. Both factions got, what, 5 new kits out of the box (effectively, I know they released multipart versions later on)? that'd be amazing for literally any xenos faction. Heck, if it were for Eldar, you could make monopose aspect warriors and nobody would mind because they're coming from a monopose kit anyway and their unit only has 1 model with options.
Heck, if it were for Eldar, you could make monopose aspect warriors and nobody would mind because they're coming from a monopose kit anyway and their unit only has 1 model with options.
And in many cases, those options don't actually exist in model form. With some exarchs, they never have. ;/
It will be interesting to see the reveals on Saturday at the Open Day. If those new Primaris Marines are not shown then it either confirms the leak was fake or they are indeed for a release much further in the future.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed these are part of the launch lineup for the next edition. Not in the core game itself but as expansion sets.
On that note I'm also hoping the opposing army is not Chaos as they have been in every one of the last 3 or 4 core game releases.
(yes I know that Marines have been in every core game release since the first box, they are however the poster boys for the Imperium and GW)
Triple Helix Wargames wrote: It will be interesting to see the reveals on Saturday at the Open Day. If those new Primaris Marines are not shown then it either confirms the leak was fake or they are indeed for a release much further in the future.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed these are part of the launch lineup for the next edition. Not in the core game itself but as expansion sets.
On that note I'm also hoping the opposing army is not Chaos as they have been in every one of the last 3 or 4 core game releases.
(yes I know that Marines have been in every core game release since the first box, they are however the poster boys for the Imperium and GW)
I'm just sayin', you could do a good call-back to that fun era where the opposing force had no way to wound the landspeeder and have the opposing force be Drukhari...
I'm not trying to continue the discussion about marine hate or veer off topic with this but I wish people would stop justifying the idea that marines deserve disproportionately more content because they are the most popular army or have the greatest sales. GW has made it a self fulfilling prophecy that they are number one by that disproportionate attention.
I have pointed out before in threads on this topic that warhammer fantasy is a great example of how the game would look without having a poster boy faction with disproportionately more releases shoved down our throats. Fantasy had relatively even model ranges and didn't fail because of it's factions. I think most would agree that the setting and model range were the saving grace and most beloved part of fantasy. It was likely how expensive, time consuming, and impractical the game was what caused the game to eventually die off.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Is 9th confirmed for this year? Or just strongly speculated?
No. Larry Vela said his "inside source" confirmed it for him (probably the same person who "confirmed" that Slaanesh was getting squatted) on BoLS. Other blogs and rumor sites have been referencing that article.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, I've got plans for a sisters army myself so I hope you're wrong, but sadly I doubt it.
They are are not marines so once the releases for this codex are done(likely in 2 waves. Most in january/february(I think 1.2 is store date), rest later. Like seraphim who were said to be "sometime next year") then future releases will be sparse.
If you are not marine you can't be sure of getting even one release in a year.
That's.... normal? it's weird for any faction to be assured a release each year.
even MARINES getting a release each year isn't exactly reliable, unless you insist that all marine varient codices are the same. and even then I think we had nearly two years between the repulsor executioner and the last marine release
Nowhere near - Shadowspear to the Repulsive Executioner wasn't even a year, off the top of my head.
And that's ignoring random LE generic Lieutenants, who keep cropping up periodically.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, I've got plans for a sisters army myself so I hope you're wrong, but sadly I doubt it.
They are are not marines so once the releases for this codex are done(likely in 2 waves. Most in january/february(I think 1.2 is store date), rest later. Like seraphim who were said to be "sometime next year") then future releases will be sparse.
If you are not marine you can't be sure of getting even one release in a year.
That's.... normal? it's weird for any faction to be assured a release each year.
even MARINES getting a release each year isn't exactly reliable, unless you insist that all marine varient codices are the same. and even then I think we had nearly two years between the repulsor executioner and the last marine release
Nowhere near - Shadowspear to the Repulsive Executioner wasn't even a year, off the top of my head.
And that's ignoring random LE generic Lieutenants, who keep cropping up periodically.
If you ignore the LE lieutenants since they weren't for mass distribution, the codex was July 2017, then the executioner in July 2019. What you mean is - there has been 1 long ass trickle of content this year.
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
Yeah I guess an update every two decade is totally the same as several release every year .
I mean, Primaris have more options that Sisters will get, and they didn't exist a few years ago lol.
Crimson wrote: Yes, marines get more releases than other armies. Also GW minis are expensive, their rules are poorly balanced and water is wet.
One would imagine that at some point constantly whining about the same things that everyone knows and which are not going to change would get old, but apparently not.
Complaining got me plastic Sisters, why would I stop?
BrianDavion wrote: it's even more absurd when you realize Hybrid is a sisters of battle player. you know that army that's getting a MASSIVE release coming up sometime this month?
I think you've missed the point, it shouldn't be about the 'most neglected' tripe--the same off topic downward spiral that drives these threads to irrelevancy.
I'd like to comment more about this new 'landspeeder,' but one blurry leak attempt by gw isn't sufficient. I keep checking back in to see any updates and all I'm left with is the same group of people spam-posting this site to oblivion.
ohh I agree. you get these threads buried with people complaining about marines, and it's the same handful of people. It got so bad on the Psykic awakening thread the mods started issuing bans.
Equally - there is a constant (by the same old people) nagging defence of anything and everything related to Marines coupled with a demand for more Marines at the expense of everything else, often a noted sneering disdain and dislike for non Marine factions and anyone who enjoys them..
We know there will be a constant, unrelenting Marine releases - does not make it right.....
We have a blurry image of a Landspeeder (how many are there now??) and maybe some new bikes. - mabe not. Anything else known? Nope hence the usual gradual slip into the realm of off topic as there is no "News" really to talk about....
I would love to see you find some examples of anyone saying they disliked xenos players whilst asking for more marine releases please.
he can;t because it doesn't exist. But apparently,
"I'd like to in the future see Primaris terminators" is in the same catagory as "WHAT! GW IS PUTTING OUT A NEW DARK ANGELS LEUITENANT! HOW DARE THEY! SPACE MARINES GOT A RELEASE ALREADY! GW NEEDS TO STOP GIVING MARINES ANYTHING AND INSTEAD PUT OUT CONTENT FOR XENOS! AND BY XENOS I MEAN UNITS FOR MY ARMY SPECIFICLY AND THEY HAVE TO BE THE EXACT UNITS I WANT!"
I was gonna jump in with some fervor, but this broke that combo.
they Haven't done Primaris Terminators? then i looked up aggressors and realized they are like centurions. then i rattled my brain on the other variants of modern power armored super human for awhile and realized they've all melded into a power armored mush in my head.
hey, you want primaris termies, whatever that is gonna mean, have fun, because it'll probably happen, though around the time they finally make melee primaris. but about the time i hear "primaris drop pod" i can't take this seriously anymore in either direction, and i guess i just accept this now. just bring on 30k part 2 since at this rate it's were we are going. get the chaos marines some REAL good stuff while we're at it. bring noise marine guitars back.
Do we know (roughly) when GW will un-pixelate that pic for us?
there's a big show thingy saturday so if we don't see an offical announcement then I'm perpared to call the pic a fake
If it’s really not coming until later in the year they probably just won’t acknowledge it. The sculpt for Mortarion leaked in tiny blurry pictures months before he was released and they just ignored it.
Do we know (roughly) when GW will un-pixelate that pic for us?
there's a big show thingy saturday so if we don't see an offical announcement then I'm perpared to call the pic a fake
If it’s really not coming until later in the year they probably just won’t acknowledge it. The sculpt for Mortarion leaked in tiny blurry pictures months before he was released and they just ignored it.
maybe but WHC useally previews stuff even if months out when it leaks, remember the IF and sallies chars?
Do we know (roughly) when GW will un-pixelate that pic for us?
there's a big show thingy saturday so if we don't see an offical announcement then I'm perpared to call the pic a fake
If it’s really not coming until later in the year they probably just won’t acknowledge it. The sculpt for Mortarion leaked in tiny blurry pictures months before he was released and they just ignored it.
maybe but WHC useally previews stuff even if months out when it leaks, remember the IF and sallies chars?
They weren’t that far out when they leaked. They revealed them after the leak on the 18th September, and they were released on the 19th October.
Not Online!!! wrote: Tbf if gw handled traitor guard correctly it is a exotic thing.
Big on the"IF"
The sad thing is that traitor guard would probably be better guard than guard.
The sad thing was that Traitor guard or R&H were the better guard from a fell perspective then IG in 7th during IA13.
What with the customizability and options that basically allowed for actual variety for regiment types.
(also working infantry, as in you'd actually like to pick your troops, which if anything is darn impressive in edition spam xyz elite FA or support choice to win.)
ImAGeek wrote: They weren’t that far out when they leaked. They revealed them after the leak on the 18th September, and they were released on the 19th October.
Yeah. I think they might say something if they're coming in the first quarter. If they're not coming until summer then I expect they'll just ignore it.
Bdrone wrote: I was gonna jump in with some fervor, but this broke that combo.
they Haven't done Primaris Terminators? then i looked up aggressors and realized they are like centurions. then i rattled my brain on the other variants of modern power armored super human for awhile and realized they've all melded into a power armored mush in my head.
hey, you want primaris termies, whatever that is gonna mean, have fun, because it'll probably happen, though around the time they finally make melee primaris. but about the time i hear "primaris drop pod" i can't take this seriously anymore in either direction, and i guess i just accept this now. just bring on 30k part 2 since at this rate it's were we are going. get the chaos marines some REAL good stuff while we're at it. bring noise marine guitars back.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
One thing I absolutely do not like with Primaris is the lack of heavy weapons, or option to upgrade a special weapon in a unit. Aggressors might be somewhat like Terminators (minus the important teleportation, but who's nitpicking), but no option to add an assault cannon, cyclone etc. Same with Intercessors, where's my lascannon, or adding a single helblaster to the squad.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
Terminators will always look unique because they are anatomically incorrect to a laughable degree. Aggressors are in line with a terminator, they just don't house the marines head in their stomach.
It's funny because the thing that made a terminator so distinct is the thing most people constantly want corrected.
Red Corsair wrote: Terminators will always look unique because they are anatomically incorrect to a laughable degree. Aggressors are in line with a terminator, they just don't house the marines head in their stomach.
It's funny because the thing that made a terminator so distinct is the thing most people constantly want corrected.
You can have that hunched profile without blatant anatomical impossibility. Both the Custodes terminators and Abaddon are examples of that. This is actually why I was disappointed by the newest chaos termies and why I want primaris termies. They know how to do this now.
bullyboy wrote: One thing I absolutely do not like with Primaris is the lack of heavy weapons, or option to upgrade a special weapon in a unit. Aggressors might be somewhat like Terminators (minus the important teleportation, but who's nitpicking), but no option to add an assault cannon, cyclone etc. Same with Intercessors, where's my lascannon, or adding a single helblaster to the squad.
I think the ability to do mixed squads is actually in deathwatch, though i know very little about the specifics. as to why they have no weapon options, it makes sense for an experimental run, both in lore and in design. nor is it even all that weird, considering how few weapon options you get per unit outside of some armies. if anything at this point i kind of find it a benefit sometimes. can't complain about not enough weapon options in a box if theres none to choose from in the first place.
(mind you, i think they should just put enough dang weapon options in the boxes, but we are apparently past that...)
also, i decided to count the diferent variants of superarmored marine i know of thusfar. so theres 4 kinds of terminators, 2 types of centurions, and the aggressors i found so far. yeah, that about checks out. maybe they won't make primaris terminators, because Aggressors already exist.
...nah, they still totally will. gotta cash in on that, they are just waiting for it for some reason, though im not sure what. i would have relaunched the "iconic" marine variants off the jump.
It's an "all or nothing" for unique weapons, barring a few cornercases(Eliminator Sergeants, Auxiliary Grenade Launchers for Intercessors are the two immediately coming to mind). Whole squads are outfitted with the same gear, resulting in less flexibility but more outlay of that gear.
Red Corsair wrote: Terminators will always look unique because they are anatomically incorrect to a laughable degree. Aggressors are in line with a terminator, they just don't house the marines head in their stomach.
It's funny because the thing that made a terminator so distinct is the thing most people constantly want corrected.
You mean - TACTICAL DREADNOUGHT ARMOUR? What a joke.
It's an "all or nothing" for unique weapons, barring a few cornercases(Eliminator Sergeants, Auxiliary Grenade Launchers for Intercessors are the two immediately coming to mind). Whole squads are outfitted with the same gear, resulting in less flexibility but more outlay of that gear.
I'm fine with that. Gives each squad a clear role and looks nice. I just want the characters and non-intercessor sergeants to have decent gear options.
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
That's just stupid. And it would still be visible, it cannot completely vanish.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because this is a model game and I want to represent stuff with cool looking models! Isn't it pretty damn obvious?
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
Drop pods having a model is a newish concept, fluff wise as an idea: primaris drop pods strip out the weapon systems to be totally collapsible after disembarking, reducing accidental damage and waste to chapter assets.
That's just stupid. And it would still be visible, it cannot completely vanish.
Why do you think there has to be a model to represent a model dropping in from orbit?
Because this is a model game and I want to represent stuff with cool looking models! Isn't it pretty damn obvious?
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
The same logic can be applied to bombers. In the past we just had a large template for bombardments. Then GW decided to introduce flyers for just that.
The same logic can be applied to bombers. In the past we just had a large template for bombardments. Then GW decided to introduce flyers for just that.
Well yeah. Having flyers that operate like aeroplanes in the game is kinda weird, but that ship has sailed. Personally I prefer hovery flyers that operate more like helicopters, they seem to make a bit more sense in this scale. I love my Stormpotato.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
This is the same company that produced a scaled down BFG model to represent the ability for a Chaos vessel to enter high altitude and do a bombardment in Epic.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
This is the same company that produced a scaled down BFG model to represent the ability for a Chaos vessel to enter high altitude and do a bombardment in Epic.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
This is the same company that produced a scaled down BFG model to represent the ability for a Chaos vessel to enter high altitude and do a bombardment in Epic.
Wait, what?
One of the Epic Armageddon Chaos Lists had rules for the Devastation Class providing orbital support and there's slightly different from BFG scale version of the ship for it. It's rare, but they pop up on eBay from time to time.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
This is the same company that produced a scaled down BFG model to represent the ability for a Chaos vessel to enter high altitude and do a bombardment in Epic.
Wait, what?
One of the Epic Armageddon Chaos Lists had rules for the Devastation Class providing orbital support and there's slightly different from BFG scale version of the ship for it. It's rare, but they pop up on eBay from time to time.
One of the Epic Armageddon Chaos Lists had rules for the Devastation Class providing orbital support and there's slightly different from BFG scale version of the ship for it. It's rare, but they pop up on eBay from time to time.
The original black legion and chaos cult lists produced by GW didn’t have model pictures. And the devstation class was a plastic cruiser and I can tell you they didn’t produce any alt version of it for Epic. They barely put out any models for Chaos.. Chances are you either saw a fan made list or saw the cruiser with the Dæmonship upgrade.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
No, because they're hideous and stupid, instead these new terminators need to look cool and awesome. Furthermore, assault centurion have potent antihorde shooting, which is opposite of what I suggested. In close combat they certainly perform in similar manner than I'd expect from the updated terminators.
What's your stance about Assault Marines deploying via Thunderhawk? Should they require this gunship as a model too?
The Thunderhawk doesn't land on the table, it probably doesn't even come near the table surface, the marines just jump off it from high altitude. Note how I don't expect the Strike Cruiser that launches the Drop Pods to have a model either.
This is the same company that produced a scaled down BFG model to represent the ability for a Chaos vessel to enter high altitude and do a bombardment in Epic.
Wait, what?
One of the Epic Armageddon Chaos Lists had rules for the Devastation Class providing orbital support and there's slightly different from BFG scale version of the ship for it. It's rare, but they pop up on eBay from time to time.
Pictures or it didnt happen.
Google says this is one (from here), but I'm not sure -
I think I need to dig my copy of Epic Armageddon out, as i think the SM list had Strike Cruisers for orbital bombardment, but I can't remember how it worked.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
No, because they're hideous and stupid, instead these new terminators need to look cool and awesome. Furthermore, assault centurion have potent antihorde shooting, which is opposite of what I suggested. In close combat they certainly perform in similar manner than I'd expect from the updated terminators.
Ugly and stupid? Centurions?
[checks my collection]
No, they're still the same utterly fantastic Hulkbuster-esq models they were the last time I looked at them.
Seriously though, aesthetics aside Centurions can be armed for monster hunting instead of anti-horde work. Obviously it's not a super efficient loadout, but give them with Assault Launchers and Meltaguns and they're hideously effective at knocking down any big target you can deliver them to. They don't get armed that way because 8th favors hordes and they're a little too expensive to go full monster-hunter when they might not have any good targets that way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and back on-topic: Games Day 2020 Primaris teaser count: zero.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
No, because they're hideous and stupid, instead these new terminators need to look cool and awesome. Furthermore, assault centurion have potent antihorde shooting, which is opposite of what I suggested. In close combat they certainly perform in similar manner than I'd expect from the updated terminators.
Ugly and stupid? Centurions?
[checks my collection]
No, they're still the same utterly fantastic Hulkbuster-esq models they were the last time I looked at them.
Seriously though, aesthetics aside Centurions can be armed for monster hunting instead of anti-horde work. Obviously it's not a super efficient loadout, but give them with Assault Launchers and Meltaguns and they're hideously effective at knocking down any big target you can deliver them to. They don't get armed that way because 8th favors hordes and they're a little too expensive to go full monster-hunter when they might not have any good targets that way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and back on-topic: Games Day 2020 Primaris teaser count: zero.
These guys are not famous for being Hulkbusters but rather infamous for being Teletubbies. They are on the same level as Mutilators which isn't a good thing.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
No, because they're hideous and stupid, instead these new terminators need to look cool and awesome. Furthermore, assault centurion have potent antihorde shooting, which is opposite of what I suggested. In close combat they certainly perform in similar manner than I'd expect from the updated terminators.
Ugly and stupid? Centurions?
[checks my collection]
No, they're still the same utterly fantastic Hulkbuster-esq models they were the last time I looked at them.
Seriously though, aesthetics aside Centurions can be armed for monster hunting instead of anti-horde work. Obviously it's not a super efficient loadout, but give them with Assault Launchers and Meltaguns and they're hideously effective at knocking down any big target you can deliver them to. They don't get armed that way because 8th favors hordes and they're a little too expensive to go full monster-hunter when they might not have any good targets that way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and back on-topic: Games Day 2020 Primaris teaser count: zero.
These guys are not famous for being Hulkbusters but rather infamous for being Teletubbies. They are on the same level as Mutilators which isn't a good thing.
Do teletubbies mean something differant in german because there's no way you can look at
Lemondish wrote: The problem I have with the Centurion is the absolute lack of logic around those chest hurricane bolters. The proportions there are super weird.
Look. It takes real dedication to become a Centurion! You need to saw off your arms first.
Lemondish wrote: The problem I have with the Centurion is the absolute lack of logic around those chest hurricane bolters. The proportions there are super weird.
Look. It takes real dedication to become a Centurion! You need to saw off your arms first.
Same basic surgery as it takes to wear Indomitus Terminator Armor...
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's an exoskeleton, not armour. The Marine is already in his armour. This is like a... Power Loader from Aliens. But with loads of guns.
Yes, guns instead of arms. There's no space for arms.
Let me put on my big, chunky armor. Ok, servants have been working on it for the best part of an hour, I'm finally ready. Now let's cram myself into a tiny-teeny space where I need to keep my arms crossed at all time, while driving an exoskeleton.
Sorry, even penitent engine aren't THAT level of silliness lol.
Yeah man, Aggressors are totally different than terminators. Aggressors put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee, while terminators put out short range S4 bolt shots and are armed with powerfists in melee but hold the bolt shot weapon in ONE HAND and the powerfist in the OTHER HAND.
Aggressors just don't look terminatory enough. Gravis is just a bit bulkier power armour. Yes, currently they're mechanically similar, but if terminators are redesigned, they don't need to be. I think terminators have lacked a clear role for a while. I think their role should be monster hunters. Super tough elite guys that go against all the big critters , robots etc. Hulkbusters. They should look bulky and imposing and have hard hitting but short ranged/melee weapons.
...you do realize you just described Assault Centurions, right?
No, because they're hideous and stupid, instead these new terminators need to look cool and awesome. Furthermore, assault centurion have potent antihorde shooting, which is opposite of what I suggested. In close combat they certainly perform in similar manner than I'd expect from the updated terminators.
Ugly and stupid? Centurions?
[checks my collection]
No, they're still the same utterly fantastic Hulkbuster-esq models they were the last time I looked at them.
Seriously though, aesthetics aside Centurions can be armed for monster hunting instead of anti-horde work. Obviously it's not a super efficient loadout, but give them with Assault Launchers and Meltaguns and they're hideously effective at knocking down any big target you can deliver them to. They don't get armed that way because 8th favors hordes and they're a little too expensive to go full monster-hunter when they might not have any good targets that way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and back on-topic: Games Day 2020 Primaris teaser count: zero.
These guys are not famous for being Hulkbusters but rather infamous for being Teletubbies. They are on the same level as Mutilators which isn't a good thing.
Do teletubbies mean something differant in german because there's no way you can look at
This
and see this
not unless you're high as a kite.
Why did you post two totally identical pictures there? :p
1. Both designs have been conceptualized by 4-year-olds.
2. In both costumes is a guy who makes an utter fool of himself by being stuck in an unnecessary piece of armour like the actors do when performing in front of their childish audience.
3. The Teletubbies come in different colours just like the SM chapters.
If this doesn't satisfy you then perhaps a comparison with a Matryoshka doll will suffice.
You have a power armored guy which is stuck in another suit while those Russian dolls incorporate several smaller dolls GW only scratched the surface here and I am sure Primaris will get the proper Matryoshka treatment in 2020 which houses a suit in a suit in a suit.
Marines don't hide in "METAL BAWKSES" anymore. They do so in ill-fitting unnecessary suits.
1. Both designs have been conceptualized by 4-year-olds.
2. In both costumes is a guy who makes an utter fool of himself by being stuck in an unnecessary piece of armour like the actors do when performing in front of their childish audience.
3. The Teletubbies come in different colours just like the SM chapters.
If this doesn't satisfy you then perhaps a comparison with a Matryoshka doll will suffice.
You have a power armored guy which is stuck in another suit while those Russian dolls incorporate several smaller dolls GW only scratched the surface here and I am sure Primaris will get the proper Matryoshka treatment in 2020 which houses a suit in a suit in a suit.
Marines don't hide in "METAL BAWKSES" anymore. They do so in ill-fitting unnecessary suits.
in other words you're trying to be "kewl" by tossing out insults. If you wanna bash centurions fine, but try and do so in a reasonable manner.
but yeah we can clearly see the new land speeder.
and call me in the morning 
